1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Special Session 9 Monday, February 7, 2011 10 6:30 p.m. 11 District Courtroom #1 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 Emergency Services District Presentation 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 2 1 On Monday, February 7, 2011, at 6:30 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this special meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, mornings February 7th, 2011, at 6:30 p.m. It is that 11 time now. The item on the agenda for this evening's meeting 12 is an emergency services district presentation to 13 Commissioners Court and the community. Commissioner Baldwin, 14 I'll turn it over to you. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. Thank you 16 for all of you that -- that came. We appreciate you being 17 here, appreciate your interest in what we're doing. I thank 18 the Commissioners Court for giving us this platform to talk 19 about an emergency service district. Sir, there's a $4 fee 20 for being late. (Laughter.) Typical city employee. Did you 21 see that? 22 MR. MALONEY: Partly county. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right, he's partially 24 a county employee too. Very good. Don't sit on the back 25 row. But we want to -- we have three presentations, all 2-7-11 cc2 3 1 three of them short, and we're going to do that. And I'm 2 going to ask you -- there's some questions you already have; 3 I know that, but I'm going to ask you to hold your questions 4 to the end, and then we'll just kind of open it up. You 5 have -- the County Judge here is a lawyer, so he's going to 6 keep us out of jail. Now, I don't know how it's going to 7 work for all of y'all, but these three folks here are -- let 8 me go back. The Commissioners Court asked me to put together 9 a presentation on the county-wide ESD, and we finally -- I 10 talked around and I found these three people, and I don't 11 think there's any more -- any group in the state of Texas is 12 more knowledgeable than these three people right here, and 13 I'm not kidding about it. These people are all three gurus, 14 and they -- and they haul around a lawyer with them from 15 Austin that wrote the rules from this thing, and he's at 16 legislative session blowing and going, so he's up there and 17 is not down here with us, but hopefully he will come in a 18 little bit later as interest is generated as we go along. 19 So, I'm going to introduce these three people. They're going 20 to speak to you, and one of them has a video presentation to 21 give, and I'd ask you to hold your questions to the end, and 22 then we'll have -- have a good discussion. But I want to 23 introduce all these folks to you right now. Right here is 24 Ken Wood. He's the chair of the Kerr County ESD Number 1. 25 That's the ESD that's out in Ingram, is Ken Wood. Debbie 2-7-11 cc2 4 1 Johnson is the former Fort Bend County ESD Commissioner. And 2 we have Don Grogg; he's a former ESD commissioner. And, like 3 I said, they're all three very professional. They've done 4 this thing many times, and they all three live in my 5 precinct. (Laughter.) That's the reason we're number one. 6 So, we're going to ask Don Grogg to stand up and give his 7 presentation. Thank you. 8 MR. GROGG: Okay. Is it working now? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 10 MR. GROGG: All right, good. My name's Don Grogg. 11 I moved to Kerrville last February. I had been in the 12 Houston area in Cy-Fair, which is a little -- Houston's one 13 of our suburbs. Cy-Fair -- you may not know it; 400,000 14 people have been incorporated to be the 7th largest city in 15 the state of Texas. It's the unincorporated part of the 16 county right now, really crowded, so I moved to Kerrville, 17 got out of that. I was involved as a volunteer 18 firefighter/EMT for five years. I was president of the fire 19 department -- Cy-Fair Fire Department back years ago, and 20 I've been an emergency services commissioner for 15 years, 21 and for the last five years -- well, ended in actually 22 February of this past year, a year ago -- I was president of 23 Texas State Association of Fire and Emergency Districts. And 24 not that I know everything about them, but I know how to hold 25 a meeting where it never lasts longer than an hour and a 2-7-11 cc2 5 1 half, so you got to lead the crowd, so that's what I've done. 2 What I want to talk about at this time is about 3 emergency services districts, how one is created, what it 4 does. It's not a threat to any of the fire departments here. 5 We're looking strictly at EMS, is what we're looking at. 6 Fire departments, it's always a good idea to learn how to 7 create your own if you want to do that. An ESD is a -- it 8 uses the bad four-letter word, T-A-X. It is a taxing 9 authority. It levies a tax on personal property to pay for 10 EMS or fire, or EMS and fire both. It can do anything you 11 want. We're looking strictly at an EMS situation. And what 12 we're looking at is a way of improving our response time in 13 the county. You've met us already. Kerr County EMS today is 14 operated by Kerrville Fire Department, supported by 43 EMS 15 First Responder volunteers across the county. There's a 16 partial reimbursement for the EMS costs to the City that is 17 provided by Kerr County. 18 So, it's an excellent service for those close by to 19 the city. However, in certain parts of Kerr County -- 20 there's a lot of real estate here -- ambulance response time 21 can be 35 to 40 minutes. If there's not an ambulance on your 22 side of town, one has to come from the station on the other 23 side of town, it could add probably another 10 minutes to 24 that time period. Proposed Kerr County EMS Option 1 would be 25 to continue to be operated by Kerrville Fire Department, more 2-7-11 cc2 6 1 funding from a Kerr County EMS emergency services district, 2 along with the funding from the County to support this 3 effort. And -- and a goal would be to establish two manned 4 satellite stations outside the city limits of Kerrville, one 5 west and one east. So, we're along the main corridor of 6 habitation, I guess you could say, or the most -- most number 7 of roads. I understand there's not a lot of paved roads out 8 here, other than the main ones. 9 Taxes can be collected by the ESD to fund expanded 10 service with Kerrville Fire Department. Option 2 is to form 11 an emergency services district to guarantee some funding 12 through tax dollars for a service provider, and that would be 13 a contract with a private ambulance service as a service 14 provider for 911 responses. I've seen it work, and I've seen 15 it where it hasn't worked. It just -- it just depends on how 16 the -- the partnership goes together. It's just -- it has -- 17 they have to understand that 911 comes first; this is for 18 emergency responses. It's for emergency medical services, 19 not for transfer -- this is not for just, you know, I need to 20 go to the hospital and I don't have a way to get there. This 21 is truly for emergency services. The third way would be to 22 form an emergency services district to guarantee funding 23 dollars, and establish a new county-wide EMS department. 24 We -- we talked to a few of the fire departments 25 here. We haven't talked to all of them, but, you know, do 2-7-11 cc2 7 1 you want to get in the EMS business? I can tell you, coming 2 from a fire department that had 11 ambulances, you don't want 3 to get in the EMS business. It's a whole different world 4 from the firefighting world. There's a correct process for 5 doing this. These are John Carlton's slides. Again, John is 6 getting ready for the SAFE-D conference that's coming up this 7 weekend. He's also working -- SAFE-D has sponsored some 22 8 bills to go through the Legislature this year. He's trying 9 to get them -- all these bills, right now trying to get 10 someone to sponsor them, get them all run through, all for 11 fire and EMS. The Texas Safety and Health Codes, there's two 12 chapters; 775, that covers EMS -- ESD's for counties larger 13 than 125,000, and 776 for less than 125,000. There's, like, 14 five words that are different in the two, and that's one of 15 the bills that's up there now, to have that changed so it 16 will be under one code. 17 Basic process. You go through a petition, 18 acceptance by Commissioners Court, order for election, 19 conduct the election, canvass the election, order creating 20 the district, and then... So, we'll talk a little bit about 21 how this is done. A hundred qualified voters, or a majority 22 if less than 100 qualified voters in the area. Well, we have 23 more than 100 qualified voters in Kerr County. They pick the 24 name of the district, the boundaries of the district, which 25 would be the Kerr -- Kerr County as a whole. The voters' 2-7-11 cc2 8 1 names are printed, the mailing addresses, the ID's, the 2 signatures, and the date. The agreement of two voters not to 3 pay more than $150 in costs; to pay the $150, and the 4 petition is then filed. Municipal consent is required if the 5 ESD is also going to cover the city limits of Kerrville and 6 the extraterritorial jurisdiction, which is -- 1 mile? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One mile. 8 MR. GROGG: One mile outside. In the city of 9 Houston, their ETJ follows every major highway till the 10 county line, and it's 2 miles in the city of Houston, is the 11 way theirs is set up, so they can reach out and grab pieces 12 and have nowhere near the services they need to do if they 13 can, but they can grab those for tax purposes. That's not 14 the case here. The city's given 60 days to respond. If they 15 don't respond within 90 days, we file the petition. We 16 request the services for the entire area, but they can say 17 yes or no, that they want to be included or don't want to be 18 included in this. The majority of voters, 50 percent of them 19 has to be landowners. If refusal or no action within six 20 months, consent is deemed. The consent is then valid for six 21 months to continue the process of establishing the district. 22 Proper petition received by the County Judge and 23 filed with the County Clerk, just as any other petition would 24 be filed. Hearing at the next regular/special session after 25 the petition is filed. The notice of the hearing is posted 2-7-11 cc2 9 1 at least 21 days in advance, is published two consecutive 2 weeks, the first at least 21 days in advance. If 3 Commissioners Court finds that the creation of the district 4 is feasible, it will benefit the territory in the district, 5 it will secure the public safety, welfare, and convenience 6 and will aid in conserving the real property or natural 7 resources in the proposed district -- now, this isn't exactly 8 the way the law says it. These words have been converted so 9 we can all understand them, because it's like every other law 10 that's written in legalese, and it was very difficult to try 11 to understand what it says. And John's done a good job of 12 putting this together. Commissioners Court shall grant the 13 petition and fix the district's boundaries. 14 Upon granting the petition, the Commissioners Court 15 must order an election. The election must be the same notice 16 as the hearing process, and then election on the next uniform 17 date, so it's either May or November, and it goes on the 18 ballot. You want an ESD or you don't want an ESD, yes or no. 19 So, it's voted on by the people that are going to pay for it. 20 And an ESD's tax goes up to 10 cents per $100 valuation, and 21 it will request the amount -- the maximum amount they'd like 22 to go to. Usually it -- well, usually it always is in -- 23 when they set up the district, they set the district up to 24 allow them to go up to that, but most districts don't start 25 at the 10-cent level. Ours in Houston was at six. I think 2-7-11 cc2 10 1 -- where are you guys at in Ingram? 2 MR. WOOD: Two cents. 3 MR. GROGG: Theirs is two cents there. The 4 district's created if the majority votes in favor. Majority 5 of voters within the city limits and ETJ must be in favor of 6 creation to include those areas in the district. So, the 7 City could say, "Sure, we want it included," but if the 8 voters don't vote for it, it's not included. This is a 9 self-imposed thing. If the election fails, we got to wait 10 another year before we try again. Like I said, John Carlton 11 and two other guys named Howard Katz and Ken Campbell are the 12 three attorneys in this state that wrote this. They came 13 from the old days of the old rural fire prevention districts, 14 and set this up as a taxing means to pay for fire and/or EMS. 15 Order creating the district, in form prescribed by the 16 statute. There's a complete procedure in this. If you ever 17 need some sleep, it's a really good tool to read, 'cause it 18 will put you to sleep. Order to be filed with county 19 records, together with all other records to create the 20 district, the petition and the municipal consents, order 21 calling election, making findings regarding creation, order 22 canvassing, and creating the district. 23 Submission of the names of the initial board 24 candidates from Commissioners Court. Each of these boards 25 has five commissioners that are volunteer jobs. And -- well, 2-7-11 cc2 11 1 it can pay up to $50 a -- you know, per meeting, is what they 2 get paid if they elect to do that, but they're not paid jobs. 3 You don't get a car. You know, after 25 years in Houston, we 4 all got badges. You know, they said "Commissioner" on them. 5 Then if we went to a scene, we would actually wear the badge. 6 But that -- that was about it. You may get a shirt. But 7 it's not a paid position. And sometimes you -- they go, "Oh, 8 you're the guy we've been looking for." So... 9 And that pretty well covers the slides that John 10 presented. There's one thing about an ESD that you've got to 11 remember. There's 286 -- as of last year, 286 ESD's in the 12 state. There's 36 ESD's in Harris County. There's one in 13 Harris County that is strictly EMS, and they cover six 14 different fire departments; Cypress Creek -- I think it's ESD 15 100. They cover six different fire departments along 1960 on 16 the north side. And Cy-Fair, we just cover Cy-Fair. And 17 then Westlake Fire Department operates an ambulance service, 18 and so does West I-10 EMS. But they can be any combination. 19 They can be set up any way. They can be all volunteer; they 20 can be all paid. But I can tell you, with EMS, you have to 21 have paid personnel. You've got to have the people that are 22 going to spend the time there, take the education that they 23 need to make sure that they look for their advancement as 24 well. 25 Cy-Fair, we pay market now for -- for the people 2-7-11 cc2 12 1 we've got. I think we've got -- you know, we were the 2 largest volunteer; we're now the largest combination -- or 3 they are now. I got to quit saying "we." My driver's 4 license says Kerrville. But out of 440 volunteers, they got 5 220 paid -- part-time paid for fire and EMS. But if you've 6 seen one ESD, fire or EMS contract in operation, you've seen 7 one, because every single one is different. I'm sure 8 Mountain Home operates different than Ingram. And, you know, 9 none of them are the same. They operate under the same 10 statute, but after that it's all set up differently. So, 11 that's the basics. That's what I'm here to talk about. 12 Deb's going to talk a little bit about the experience of 13 being a commissioner and what she did there, and then he's 14 going to talk about Kerr County and how it operates here. 15 So, thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Debbie, come forward. 17 MS. JOHNSON: Okay, I'll come forward. 18 (Setting up microphone for Ms. Johnson.) 19 MS. JOHNSON: Just watch what you're doing here. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Put this is your hand. 21 MR. WOOD: Looks like pinning the corsage on prom 22 night. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I won't try to kiss 24 you at the door. (Laughter.) 25 MS. JOHNSON: Okay. 2-7-11 cc2 13 1 MR. GROGG: Turn it on. 2 MS. JOHNSON: Turn me on. I want you to know, 3 maybe Don didn't get one, but I got a coat when I was a 4 commissioner, so he didn't score quite as well as I did. 5 That's all I got the whole time. So, maybe you're sitting 6 there and you've looked at this presentation and you're 7 thinking, oh, yeah, well, kind of looks good on paper, but 8 what are the realities of this, and does it work? You know, 9 what do you have to go through, and why would you do it? We 10 studied these -- well, first of all, as Commissioner Baldwin 11 said, I'm Deb Johnson; I was a commissioner for Fort Bend 12 County ESD Number 1. That's nestled kind of in the northeast 13 corner of Fort Bend County, and we have two contiguous areas 14 with Harris County, so we're almost in -- in Harris County. 15 I'm now, thank goodness, a citizen of Kerrville. We're so 16 glad to be here. But I will briefly describe what we went 17 through and why we went through it. I'm also a nurse, so 18 that helped a little bit in -- in dialogue between my -- 19 ourselves and the EMS. 20 The questions that I just mentioned, what are the 21 realities, but particularly, what are the benefits? Well, 22 the ones that we addressed when I was a member of -- of an ad 23 hoc committee that studied whether or not we wanted to become 24 an ESD, there's no point in going through all this that Don 25 just showed you if there's no benefit to it. So, first of 2-7-11 cc2 14 1 all, we went through the process of trying to discover why we 2 should do it. Our options were we could do nothing, we could 3 create our own VFD, our own fire department and EMS. We had 4 an adjacent community, which was Cinco Ranch. If you know 5 anything about the Houston area, it's a huge, huge area. 6 They were in the process of creating their own ESD. We were 7 invited to be a part of that and share -- they were going to 8 create their own fire department too, so we were able to take 9 advantage, if we wished, and participate in -- in their 10 sharing of a VFD and an EMS. 11 Or, being so close to the Harris County line, we 12 had another option. District 48 in Harris County, which is 13 West I-10 Fire Department -- and West Harris County EMS was 14 just right across the line from us, and they're a wonderful 15 fire department; the EMS is great. We thought, well, shoot, 16 why should we reinvent the wheel? Why should we spend our 17 money on creation of a new department when we got a great one 18 right here? So, we talked with our attorney and learned that 19 it is permitted to form an ESD in one county and contract for 20 services in another one. After discussions with all of the 21 people that we had options with, we decided that District 48 22 really offered a whole lot for us, and we would proceed with 23 all those steps that Don just showed you. It was a benefit 24 to our citizenry to protect the lives and property of 25 everybody in our area to hire -- to contract for services 2-7-11 cc2 15 1 with a great fire department, so we proceeded. 2 As I say, it benefited us, because we had all their 3 services, but how did it benefit them? The way that they 4 came out very happy with this whole situation was, when we 5 charged our tax or added our -- or levied our tax in Fort 6 Bend County, we collected a sum of money. We contracted and 7 negotiated the terms of the contract with the -- the people 8 in District 48 in Harris County, and we paid them a certain 9 sum of money. They, in turn -- this is the win-win thing; 10 this is where it gets good. They were able to take that 11 money and hire more day crew. They were able to buy more 12 equipment. They were able to expand their services. They 13 even put a new fire station in in Harris County. And the 14 part that I like the best was they bought a fire education 15 trailer that they took to the schools and educated the kids 16 on things to do during a fire. They even had a little smoke 17 -- a smoke room, and they showed them how to get down and 18 crawl on the floor. So, these were things that they probably 19 would never have been able to do without our addition of our 20 taxes. And so the bottom line here really is short and 21 sweet; it was a win-win for all of us. We got great fire 22 protection, and they were able to enhance their services and 23 protect the lives and property of -- of us and their 24 constituents too. And that's about it. Thank you. Here you 25 go. (Handed the microphone to Mr. Wood.) You're still on. 2-7-11 cc2 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ken Wood. Or to some of us, 2 he's Ken "would not." (Laughter.) 3 MR. WOOD: Not to my wife. Judge Tinley, 4 Commissioners Court, and I'm assuming fellow taxpayers of 5 Kerr County, you may know we have two existing emergency 6 service districts in Kerr County. The first one started out 7 as a rural fire department about 20 years ago in Ingram. The 8 second one was formed roughly five years ago in Mountain 9 Home, and both of those emergency service districts provide 10 and contract with volunteer fire departments for fire 11 protection services. Although there's been no formal vote, 12 neither of those emergency service districts is interested in 13 taking on emergency service -- medical service. If required 14 to by the Commissioners Court, obviously, we would, but -- 15 but it's not something that we particularly desire. Fire 16 protection in Kerr County, as we know, is provided within 17 Kerrville by the Kerrville Fire Department and eight 18 volunteer fire departments in the county, and two mutual aid 19 agreements, one with Tierra Linda, one with Bandera, where 20 the -- if we sent somebody out from Kerrville, they would go 21 by the Bandera fire station on their way to a fire, or go by 22 Tierra Linda. So, these mutual aid agreements work there. 23 One of the things we'll ask for from the audience 24 is, we understand that the volunteer fire departments that do 25 exist are not particularly interested in getting into the 2-7-11 cc2 17 1 emergency medical business. It's quite sophisticated, but 2 that's one of the areas we're looking for input from. Well, 3 what's the major advantage of the emergency service district? 4 The major advantage is it provides a stable, predictable 5 source of revenue. By using the appraised value on our 6 houses, that number doesn't change very much from year to 7 year. In my budget in Emergency Services District 1 in 8 Ingram, we can predict our revenue within 2 percent. Right? 9 Cheryl's our Treasurer right here. And we can predict that 10 very well. That stable source of revenue and having the 11 ability to tax means that our local banks will loan money. 12 That allows us to advance capital improvement projects, such 13 as we bought a fire station. We were in a little concrete -- 14 what would we call it, just a little concrete building? What 15 do you call it, a shed? Ramona, you didn't like going to 16 Christmas parties there. She was afraid of rats. 17 MRS. WOOD: Froze to death. 18 MR. WOOD: But, anyway -- that's also true. But, 19 anyway, the major -- one of the major things we were able to 20 do was borrow money from a local bank in order to -- which 21 was several times our annual revenue stream, in order to 22 build a fire station. Other capital improvements that we can 23 finance -- and Mountain Home was done similarly -- is we can 24 finance personal protection equipment, bunker gear, 25 self-contained breathing apparatus, wildfire gear, which is 2-7-11 cc2 18 1 lighter weight than the heavy bunker gear, and provide that 2 to the local fire department that we contract with. Now, 3 local fire departments depend on donations, fundraisers and 4 contributions from the County, and some of these aren't very 5 stable. So, the advantage of an emergency service district 6 is it does provide a stable source of revenue that you can 7 predict and that you can -- through the powers of the state, 8 you can borrow money against. 9 There is a model in a neighboring -- not adjacent, 10 but a neighboring county for having an emergency service 11 district that only covers emergency services -- emergency 12 medical services. That's Comal County. In Comal County, 13 there's a county-wide emergency service district. There is 14 -- there are, I think, six volunteer fire departments, Canyon 15 Creek being the biggest one -- Canyon Lake, sorry, being the 16 biggest one around there. But it is -- it is a way in which 17 we can deal with the immediate issue of emergency services 18 and not have to change an existing structure of the volunteer 19 fire departments that we already have in Kerr County. The 20 Comal County model is -- is just one. Don has showed some 21 other options. 22 None of that has been decided. But this is just an 23 opportunity to let the community and the County Commissioners 24 know about what some of the things are. And we certainly 25 solicit any response or interest you guys have. Don asked me 2-7-11 cc2 19 1 what our tax rate was in our emergency service district, and 2 I replied two cents per $100 of assessed valuation. That may 3 not make any sense to you guys, so let me just add, that 4 works out to be 30 bucks on a $150,000 house. That's no 5 promise that any future is within that, but it gives you an 6 idea of what -- what a two-cent tax rate amounts to, anyway. 7 Or a 10-cent one, for that matter. That's all I had. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. How do you want to do 9 this Q and A thing? We'll open up the floor for questions 10 and comments at this time. But I want to remind you that we 11 have a court reporter here that's taking down every word you 12 say, and so in order to do that, I think it would be best if 13 you came up here. If not, if you want to stand up, talk loud 14 enough that she can hear you, and give us your name and 15 address, and we'll see how this thing works. I don't know 16 who's going to answer what. And if you see me run out the 17 back door, I'll see y'all some other time. So, we're going 18 to open up the floor for questions at this time. Who's 19 first? 20 (No response.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's second? (Laughter.) 22 Your name and address, please, sir. 23 MR. BRONSON: Jim Bronson, 154 Aqua Vista Drive, 24 Kerrville. I'll speak mostly to the people who have 25 experience with this right now. With your steady revenue 2-7-11 cc2 20 1 stream, were you able to set or improve service levels? 2 MR. WOOD: Well, we bought the stuff I just 3 mentioned. We were able to buy a firehouse five or six years 4 before -- if we had to save up the money first, it would have 5 been five or six years, maybe seven years before we could 6 have bought the fire station. By having money available, we 7 were able to buy -- borrow money for a brush truck. As you 8 know, getting water out to remote areas of the county is an 9 important issue, 'cause there aren't any fire hydrants, and 10 they have to pull water either from a creek or -- or if 11 there's a swimming pool or something like that. So, the -- 12 or bring it with you. So, we were able to buy some earlier 13 brush trucks, so that's -- that's what the -- that's the 14 benefit, I guess, of having the regular revenue stream, is 15 that it allows us to plan for capital projects, and it allows 16 us in many cases to accelerate those by borrowing money. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't believe you have a 18 question. 19 MR. MOORE: Buster, how are you doing, bud? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doing good. Good to see 21 you. 22 MR. MOORE: I'm Ed Moore, Turtle Creek Volunteer 23 Fire Department. I want to ask a question. In your 24 stations, with your tax moneys and your tax base, I've heard 25 it said -- oh, by the way, 154 Molina Drive. In your tax 2-7-11 cc2 21 1 bases, are you required to have an on-site person available 2 any and all times? Where does this money get you in the way 3 of -- you just had a heart attack, and I've got to get there 4 with the proper equipment to get you to town to the nearest 5 hospital, that or helicopter. Do you supply that? This will 6 supply that for us? Will we -- will we be better served than 7 we are today with what we already have in Turtle Creek? We 8 bring the water, we bring the trucks, we get the humanity 9 there, we put out the fire. We rely on Kerrville for the 10 other things, the lifesaving part of it. Where does this 11 district help me as a citizen with what you're proposing? 12 What does it do for me? Thank you, Buster. 13 MR. GROGG: I think one of the big advantages is 14 there's going to be extra money as far as equipment. People 15 are concerned -- and our goal is to perhaps set up two more 16 stations east and west of town. Not sure where Turtle Creek 17 is; I try not to venture too far outside the city limits 18 right now. But I don't know whether that would help you to 19 have, perhaps, one in Hunt or one in Center Point. You're 20 still closest to Kerrville, I assume. So -- but, you know, 21 they have to be strategically placed. There's computer 22 science that tells you where the logical places are to put 23 stations. Not everybody's going to have one in their back 24 yard, and it depends on what can be afforded. To put an 25 ambulance on the street and equip it, and staffing for 24 2-7-11 cc2 22 1 hours a day, 365 days a year, runs between $325,000 to 2 $400,000 a year. Now, the ambulance does charge, every time 3 it makes a response, the person that it goes to. I've 4 already got to ride the Kerrville ambulance; I know what it 5 costs to ride from where I live right now in Comanche Trace 6 to the community hospital, but I was in no shape to drive, 7 and I appreciated the fact they were there in a hurry, even 8 at 4:30 in the morning. But it does -- it takes time. You 9 know, even if we put this district together, we wouldn't have 10 any money to begin to do anything until 2014. You know, we 11 form it this year and finish it up next year, and then the 12 first year we would be collecting any tax would be in 2012 -- 13 2012 is, I guess, the date. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 15 MR. GROGG: Yeah, 2012 before you get any money to 16 do this. But it's -- it's a method of raising the funds now. 17 Fish fries, barbecue -- you know, I went to the one in Center 18 Point. I had a great time at their fish fry, and sorry I 19 missed yours. I just wasn't here full-time, but I am now. 20 I'm going to try to make them all next year. It's a -- it's 21 a device that has been established by a lot of concerned 22 people for improving EMS and/or fire service. It's going to 23 take a lot of time for these commissioners -- not these 24 Commissioners, but commissioners they appoint, which are 25 taxpayers that live in the district, to develop a way to make 2-7-11 cc2 23 1 this -- make this happen. So, yes, it will improve service. 2 How, I can't tell you right now. I don't know how much money 3 it would give you or where. But the general goal is to 4 improve EMS response time into Kerr County. How about an 5 ambiguous answer? That do it pretty close for you? 6 MR. MOORE: Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time. 7 MR. WOOD: Do you -- I'll give you a specific. Do 8 you want a specific? 9 MR. MOORE: Just -- I still haven't figured out if 10 you have people on-site all the time. Thank you very much. 11 You don't have people on-site all the time, but you have 12 people available? 13 MR. GROGG: Not necessarily. Some -- like I say, 14 every one you have is different. Some have no one on-site, 15 but they have on-call volunteers. 16 MR. MOORE: That's what we do -- we're already 17 doing, so it's -- thank you. 18 MR. WOOD: Let me ask you this question. Are you 19 asking about our current First Responder program? 20 MR. MOORE: You're on a tax basis right now in 21 Center Point -- I mean Ingram. 22 MR. WOOD: Yeah. 23 MR. MOORE: Do they have an on-site 24-hour person? 24 MR. WOOD: For fire purposes? 25 MR. MOORE: For anything. 2-7-11 cc2 24 1 MR. WOOD: No, we have no paid staff. 2 MR. MOORE: Are they required to have one? 3 MR. WOOD: No. 4 MR. MOORE: Thank you. That's all I want to know. 5 Got that answer. Here again, I know what it costs to go on 6 those things. I'm in on them. I also know they come out and 7 they do a good job. You know, I once heard a fella, and he's 8 present today, say, "It may cost a lot of money for us to 9 sign this contract, but nobody in my precinct is going to go 10 without medical aid." And I admire that person for saying 11 that. And I'm trying to figure out where this thing will 12 improve our medical aid. If it costs us a lot of money, it 13 costs us a lot of money. That's what it's going to be either 14 way. It's not going to change how we do it. It's going to 15 be what we get in return for it. Now, on that basis, are we 16 having a little catfight with whether the City wants more 17 than they're worth, and we don't want to pay what they're 18 worth? Where do we gain if we change to this ESD for all 19 districts? We're out there. We've got enough volunteers, we 20 can put out an acre brush fire just by going and spitting on 21 it; we've got enough guys, and they're volunteers. You know, 22 where am I going to gain by telling every person here that 23 getting 2 cents on 100, 30 bucks a year -- it's only 30 bucks 24 a year -- 25 MR. WOOD: No, I didn't say it's only 30 bucks a 2-7-11 cc2 25 1 year. I said that's what it costs people in ESD 1. 2 MR. MOORE: Okay. Let's just use -- then I will 3 say it. Thirty bucks a year. All that's -- are you going to 4 get anything for it? Are you going to get lesser service or 5 more service? That's what I want to know, no matter what it 6 costs us. Do we get a good service, better or worse? 7 MR. WOOD: Can I answer one of your questions? 8 MR. MOORE: Yes, sir, you certainly may. 9 MR. WOOD: Okay. One of the things you asked was, 10 you know, is there anything specific we got for it. Well, 11 we've got 43 volunteers right now as First Responders. 12 Fortunately, many of those are trained Kerrville EMT's, 13 emergency medical technicians, and high -- there are various 14 ratings of emergency medical technicians. 15 MR. MOORE: I understand. 16 MR. WOOD: And many of these are the highest 17 rating. Half of those do not have portable defibrillators. 18 One of the things that could be used -- and, you know, I'm 19 not working now on specifics for what later would be -- if 20 we'd go this way, later would be left for details, but one of 21 the things that could happen is we could provide enough cash 22 to buy the defibrillators for every First Responder out 23 there, instead of just half of them, for instance. One of 24 the other things, I know that out west, either Mountain Home 25 or Ingram has enough room in their fire station to park an 2-7-11 cc2 26 1 ambulance. They don't have the people to staff it, but they 2 have some space in their new firehouse where they could park 3 an ambulance. That would automatically cut some 5 or 10 4 minutes off of response time to the west side of the county. 5 So, there are -- there are things. The whole issue is, you 6 don't want to get a wastrel, you know, that won't spend the 7 taxpayers' money efficiently. So, as long as you have 8 someone who's conscientious in representing and is a taxpayer 9 themselves, you know, doesn't want to see his taxes go up for 10 no purpose, there are advantages by having this extra money, 11 as Don mentioned. 12 MS. JOHNSON: And also, just adding onto what 13 you're talking about, Ken -- Deb Johnson. Being a nurse, I'm 14 interested in helping in ways other than perhaps the place 15 where we interviewed or money for the contract for services. 16 They were able to hire more people. They were able to buy 17 more equipment. Say the ambulance near you is gone; you 18 know, they've been called out on something. If you have more 19 people, if you have more equipment, somebody can back into 20 that station and be available. In addition, I wanted just to 21 mention about the AED's. According to -- 22 MR. WOOD: Defibrillators. 23 MS. JOHNSON: I'll behave. Yes, defibrillators. 24 MR. MOORE: I didn't know either. Thank you. 25 MS. JOHNSON: Sorry. According to the chart I have 2-7-11 cc2 27 1 here, you have a two-minute window of opportunity, and 2 anybody that does EMS knows this. And any -- probably a lot 3 of us know it because we're getting a little older, and we've 4 studied these things too. But with an AED -- with a 5 defibrillator, you have a way better chance of surviving a 6 cardiac event if somebody can get to you within two minutes 7 with the defibrillator. 8 MR. PARKER: The average -- 9 (Court reporter stated that she couldn't hear.) 10 MS. PIEPER: Speak up. 11 MR. MOORE: Shall I sit down or stand here and just 12 ask more questions? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just hold off. If you're 14 going to talk, talk loud. 15 MR. PARKER: I mean, defibrillators -- you're 16 talking about two minutes. Well, that gets you to about a 17 mile and a half past the city limits. Or from Center Point, 18 that will get you about a tenth of the way, as most of the 19 patients in our district are -- 20 MS. JOHNSON: So, what if you provide those First 21 Responders with AED's? 22 MR. PARKER: It's still -- regardless if it's an 23 ambulance or First Responder, the First Responder can't go 20 24 miles over the speed limit in order -- 25 MR. WOOD: The First Responders are out in the 2-7-11 cc2 28 1 county. 2 MR. PARKER: I know they are. We have one in our 3 district. 4 MR. WOOD: Right. 5 MS. JOHNSON: That's what we're hoping to better, 6 is to maybe make that situation better so you do have people. 7 MR. PARKER: How is the KESD going to make a First 8 Responder -- I mean, all I've heard so far is, hey, it's 9 going to be wonderful, blah, blah, blah. I haven't heard 10 anything specific. Buster, in the past, has talked about 11 ambulance service as part of this, but the transfer service 12 is not -- it's not EMS at all. Most of the transfers in this 13 county come from Sid Pete in the city, or from the V.A., or 14 from one of the nursing homes, all in the city. So, you 15 know, where is this EMS going to come from? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the question where is the 17 EMS going to come from? 18 MR. PARKER: I mean, you know, we've contracted 19 with the City; pretty much have the same thing we have now. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, first, before we get -- we 21 need to get the record clear. Your name and address, sir? 22 MR. PARKER: Jack Parker. I'm Assistant Chief with 23 Turtle Creek. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's going to be 2-7-11 cc2 29 1 different ways -- let me tell you, the way I see this thing 2 happening is that we go through all those steps. We create 3 an ESD county-wide, and we create this board of directors 4 that is totally and completely in charge. And here's one of 5 the beautiful things about it. The politics -- the EMS 6 program is taken off of these men's desk, and it goes off the 7 City Council's desk. 8 MR. PARKER: You got a political appointee. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You hush until I get 10 through. 11 MR. PARKER: All right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then the politics is out of 13 the thing, okay? That's one step. The second step is -- is 14 that board -- that board then contracts with whoever they 15 wish. They are totally in charge. Now, if I were that 16 board, I would contract with the City of Kerrville and 17 maintain the ambulance service that we have today, because 18 they are the best, number one. And number two, why go 19 anywhere else when these guys are right here ready to go? If 20 I were the board -- ESD board, I would contract with the City 21 of Kerrville for their ambulance service, and then I would 22 try to -- like all three of these folks right here have said, 23 I would try to get ambulances in the satellite situation. 24 MR. PARKER: Okay. Is the City going to do that? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no idea. 2-7-11 cc2 30 1 MR. PARKER: Okay. Well, I mean, that's the 2 problem. You know, we go through all these steps, you create 3 this, but nobody knows what we're creating. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't know. The board is 5 the -- when we create the board, I mean, we know that that's 6 a step. Isn't it, Jack? 7 MR. PARKER: We -- I mean, you and I, we've 8 discussed this a lot. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We create that board. That 10 is the step. Then it's theirs. It's theirs then. That's 11 the pretty part about it. And they -- they have the right to 12 contract with the City of Kerrville. They can bring in those 13 folks from San Antonio; can't remember the names, or 14 whatever. 15 MR. PARKER: I mean, that's the whole problem. You 16 go through all these steps; we don't know what we're 17 creating. You know, that's -- 18 MR. GROGG: What we're doing now is we're just 19 letting everyone know there's a method -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Wait, one at a time. 21 MR. GROGG: There's a method to do this, and it's 22 provided in the Safety and Health Code. 23 MR. PARKER: I'm very familiar -- 24 MR. GROGG: It can be done. Now, how it's done, 25 like I say, every single one of them is different. I mean, 2-7-11 cc2 31 1 we operate -- in Houston, every fire department operates some 2 way different; every EMS operates some way different. But 3 whatever it is has to be good for the citizens, and that's 4 where these commissioners come from. They are, okay, 5 political appointees -- actually, I was elected from Houston, 6 and that's one of the reasons I got out of it, because it 7 totally brought politics back into it. 8 MR. PARKER: Right. 9 MR. GROGG: So I left the job and moved here. But 10 that was another reason I moved here, not just no mosquitoes. 11 But it's -- it's just a -- all we're doing today is 12 presenting a concept and a possible way to do this. We have 13 no plans. We have no exact plans. There'll be months of 14 research that has to be done before it can be proven that 15 this will work. Is there enough land that's taxable in the 16 county to generate enough money to do this? We don't know 17 yet. We have to get all those numbers together. But, you 18 know, the Commissioner asked us tonight to come tell our 19 stories, show these people what we can do. But, you know, 20 then it's going to be up to the citizens. 21 MR. PARKER: Well, and I understand that. I mean, 22 what I'm asking from -- from the Commissioners is, you know, 23 before they bring this to the public, we really need to have 24 an idea what y'all are bringing us, is what I'm saying. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2-7-11 cc2 32 1 MR. PARKER: At this point, you know we've 2 discussed the ESD's, all -- 3 (Court reporter asked Mr. Parker to speak louder.) 4 MR. PARKER: What are we trying -- you know, it'd 5 be better if we had an idea of where we're heading with this. 6 Now, this is a taxing entity; I understand that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good advice. Thank you very 8 much. He and I have been through this 14, 15 times. And -- 9 and if I get the opportunity to get people involved in the 10 study end of it, you're going to be on it. Now, sit down and 11 hush. Who else? City of Kerrville? 12 MR. LEE: No, sir. My name's Chris Lee; I live at 13 909 Golf Avenue, and I'm here on behalf of Kerrville 14 Professional Firefighters Association. I'm the president of 15 the association. 16 AUDIENCE: Can you speak up, please? 17 MR. LEE: I have a few concerns, I suppose. First, 18 why would the ESD's in Ingram and Mountain Home not be -- not 19 have any interest in an EMS service? You know, I kind of -- 20 I wonder why, you know. 21 MR. WOOD: The reason is that we're -- we're 22 getting service now through the County. That's really the 23 answer. I mean, -- 24 MR. LEE: Okay. 25 MR. WOOD: -- we are concerned with the fire 2-7-11 cc2 33 1 protection part of the business. Part of it is our culture 2 and history. We started out as a rural fire district. We -- 3 we have focused on -- on the fire issues. We haven't -- and 4 we think, frankly, our tax base is too small to be able to do 5 much in the way of EMS by ourselves. And as regards the city 6 of Ingram, their tax base is even smaller. 7 MR. LEE: Would you be opposed to a county-wide 8 ESD, to go ahead and delete the Ingram ESD and the Mountain 9 Home ESD and -- and do a county-wide ESD where that money can 10 be spread throughout the whole entire county? 11 MR. WOOD: The issue with the -- with the ESD is, 12 having been formed by the voters, it can't be disbanded 13 without another vote of the same voters, as I understand it. 14 MR. GROGG: That's correct. 15 MR. WOOD: Excuse me for practicing law, Rob. But 16 as I read 776, that's what it says. 17 MR. LEE: Okay. 18 MR. WOOD: So that is a -- that is an issue. But I 19 have offered this other model that Comal County has, where 20 they have a county-wide service district only for emergency 21 medical services. And, incidentally, New Braunfels is 22 excluded from that. The City of New Braunfels is excluded 23 from that. And then the five or six volunteer fire 24 departments that already provide fire protection continue in 25 the same vein, providing fire protection. Now, there are 2-7-11 cc2 34 1 some cross contracts that deal with that, but basically, from 2 a practical standpoint, they have a county-wide ambulance 3 service, and then a -- the separate fire -- volunteer fire 4 departments that already serve, and then New Braunfels is 5 excluded, and they have their own firefighting service. 6 MR. LEE: Okay. The -- you said something about 7 the city limits, if the city limits of Kerrville would want 8 to be exempted from the ESD. 9 MR. GROGG: Right. 10 MR. LEE: That includes the ETJ also? 11 MR. GROGG: Either/or. What the City Council first 12 has to approve is that it's okay to go for a vote with an ESD 13 for the city and for the ETJ, or just for the ETJ. 14 MR. LEE: Okay. 15 MR. GROGG: And then it's up to the voters to 16 decide whether they want to be part of it or not. 17 MR. LEE: Okay. 'Cause I was -- I was thinking 18 that if the City opted out of it, then the ETJ would 19 automatically be -- 20 MR. GROGG: Not necessarily. 21 MR. LEE: -- excluded. Okay. 22 MR. GROGG: City of Tomball, as a matter of fact, 23 their ETJ is one issue; City of Tomball's a separate issue. 24 MR. LEE: But if they allowed it to be voted on, it 25 would be included in the -- in part of the county-wide ESD. 2-7-11 cc2 35 1 MR. GROGG: That's correct. 2 MR. LEE: If that's what it -- okay. 3 MR. GROGG: Now, it would not provide the services. 4 Again, it would provide funding -- 5 MR. LEE: It would just not -- 6 MR. GROGG: -- with the three agencies we just 7 talked about; Kerrville Fire, a private ambulance service, or 8 starting another EMS service -- 9 MR. LEE: Okay. 10 MR. GROGG: -- from scratch. 11 MR. LEE: How large is Fort Bend County? 12 MS. JOHNSON: Oh, the county -- 13 MR. LEE: Square miles. 14 MS. JOHNSON: I couldn't tell you. It's been a 15 while, I'm sorry. But it's a large county. 16 MR. LEE: Okay. 17 MR. GROGG: But there was more than one ESD in the 18 county. 19 MS. JOHNSON: Oh, yeah. One of many. 20 MR. LEE: Just one part? 21 MS. JOHNSON: We were just one ESD. 22 MR. LEE: Okay. On the -- if my numbers serve me 23 correctly, if we went, excluding the city of Kerrville, at 10 24 cents a hundred, it would generate $1.2 million for the 25 county ESD. 2-7-11 cc2 36 1 MS. JOHNSON: You're talking EMS? 2 MR. LEE: I'm talking about just on the tax -- just 3 the revenue side of it. 4 MS. JOHNSON: For that. 5 MR. LEE: At 10 cents a hundred, it would generate 6 $1.2 million. If you include the city of Kerrville, it would 7 be $2.4 million. I have a hard time believing that the 8 citizens of Kerrville would want another taxing entity inside 9 its city limits to provide services it already has. 10 MR. GROGG: That's a decision the taxpayers have to 11 make. 12 MR. LEE: Well, I mean, I -- 13 MR. GROGG: Yeah. 14 MR. LEE: You know, it's probably not going to 15 happen. 16 MR. GROGG: No. 17 MR. LEE: My -- my suggestion would be that -- that 18 the County do try to create this ESD to continue the services 19 that we have. The services that we have here, I've been 20 working for the Kerrville Fire Department for four years. 21 Prior to that, I worked six years with Corpus Christi Fire 22 Department, and we do more here on a skill base level than we 23 did in Corpus Christi. The -- the training that's involved 24 with these guys that are here, everybody -- everybody that is 25 hired from 1996 on, I believe, has to be at a paramedic 2-7-11 cc2 37 1 level. Either they're hired as an EMT basic, and then 2 they're sent to paramedic school, but they have to become a 3 paramedic, which is the highest level that you can become in 4 emergency medical service. That being said, I realize that 5 some of these response times, up to 35 and 40 minutes, I 6 would say probably around 12 minutes would be a more ideal 7 number inside that larger population that -- that we serve. 8 This 35- to 40-minute response time would -- would be like 9 Garven Store. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. I've had ambulance 11 service to my house; I live on 479. It's taken up to 45 12 minutes to get from Kerrville to there. I can be there in 22 13 driving the speed limit. 14 MR. LEE: Okay, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can tell you that going out 16 to Garven Store area, you're looking at 45 minutes to an 17 hour, depending on where the ambulance is and how long it is 18 before it's dispatched. 19 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. And just as an example, I made 20 a call out on the -- on the Y.O. Ranch. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. LEE: We transported from the Y.O. Ranch. We 23 were about 7 miles into the Y.O. Ranch, and we transported to 24 the airport. It was 56 miles, and so that was about a 25 50-minute transport time. I don't think you can improve on 2-7-11 cc2 38 1 those response times. It doesn't matter how big of an ESD 2 you create or how much money from this ESD that you create. 3 Those response times are still going to be large because of 4 the area that we cover. Kerr County's 1,200 square miles; 5 it's a lot of area to cover. But for the majority of the 6 population -- for a large portion of the population, I would 7 say that our response time is probably less than 12 minutes. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or probably half of that. 9 MR. LEE: I'm sorry? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably half of the 11 population. 12 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You know, and I 13 don't know what the numbers are for the city of Kerrville and 14 its ETJ, how much of the population that would be, but I 15 would say it would be 50 percent of the population. And -- 16 and one mile outside of the city limits of Kerrville, you 17 know, we have a response time -- I believe the paper said 18 that, you know, we have a response time of around two and a 19 half minutes inside the city limits. That also includes -- 20 and you have to take into consideration that we send a fire 21 truck on these chest pain calls -- First Responder calls, and 22 those fire trucks -- we have two ambulances that are 23 full-time ambulances, and -- and then we have four fire 24 trucks. So, those fire trucks can be on scene in a cardiac 25 arrest call or difficulty breathing call a lot faster than an 2-7-11 cc2 39 1 ambulance can be there, and they still have the same 2 medications. The same qualified people that are on those 3 fire trucks are also riding the ambulance the next shift. 4 And, you know, so inside the city limits and the ETJ, that -- 5 that level of care is higher. And I wish the county -- that 6 level of care could be there also. But an ESD does not 7 improve response times. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I would take issue with that 9 statement. If you've got the -- if you've got the locations 10 from which they're moving their equipment closer to the 11 outlying population, I think it would improve -- 12 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- response time. 14 MR. LEE: But I'm saying just by creating an ESD 15 does not. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. 17 MR. LEE: And that's where -- you know, I believe 18 that -- I think this ESD will work if the right people 19 allow -- and the City of Kerrville -- I don't think the City 20 of Kerrville's against providing anything but the best 21 service for -- I don't speak for the City of Kerrville, but I 22 don't think that they would want anything less than the best 23 service for the citizens of Kerr County. That's what we 24 provide now. That's what we'd like to continue to provide. 25 And I do think that an ESD would help that greatly, would 2-7-11 cc2 40 1 help us to be able to allow those funds to go further. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Stabilize the whole process. 3 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. You know, I mean, the city can 4 do so much more with that dollar amount than -- you know, I 5 heard a number for one ambulance to be staffed at the level 6 that we were at was about $300,000 a year for one ambulance. 7 At any time, we have seven ambulances in the city of 8 Kerrville. There is four -- five, excuse me, that are on 9 duty between the hours of 8:00 and 5:00. There's four 10 between the hours of -- after -- between 5:00 and 1:00. And 11 after -- from 1 o'clock in the morning until 8 o'clock in the 12 morning, there's two that are staffed, and there's one that's 13 sitting reserved in the station that can be staffed by people 14 off the -- the fire truck. And then if it's needed, we can 15 have those other three ambulances staffed within just a short 16 amount of time. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I worked with 18 the City of Kerrville Fire Department over 40 years ago. We 19 had a black and white spotted dog. Who else? Going to have 20 to call in for some breakfast. Yes, sir? You new around 21 here? 22 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to talk loud, 24 so -- 25 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You bet. Kirby Cunningham at 166 2-7-11 cc2 41 1 Crockett Drive in Northwest Hills. If I'm understanding 2 everything that's being said here, my question is why are we 3 not, at least in the initial stages, considering a district 4 that would provide fire protection and EMS? As an average 5 citizen in the county, and that's what I am, one is just as 6 important as the other. They're equally important for a 7 variety of reasons. If you've got to go through all of this, 8 at least give consideration to a district that would -- that 9 would encompass both fire protection and EMS or medical 10 service, here again, utilizing the -- the resources that are 11 currently available. Contract with them. I think -- as you 12 said, I think it's a win-win situation. But I guess I would 13 hesitate a little bit when you say all we're going to 14 consider is -- is EMS in this -- in this effort here, without 15 any consideration of bringing the fire protection into it. 16 Equally -- equally important. Thank you. 17 MR. LEE: Oh, I would like to add to that also 18 that -- that fire and EMS within the City of Kerrville work 19 together. I mean, you can't have one without the other. 20 We're both trained. We're cross-trained as firefighters and 21 EMS, and we don't just put out house fires. We also do swift 22 water rescue, we do high-angle rescue, we do vehicle 23 extrication. We have -- we're able to do boat rescues. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hang on. 25 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. 2-7-11 cc2 42 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who else? 2 MR. BRAND: I'm Rex Brand, P.O. Box 277, Mountain 3 Home. The question I got, I think we're primarily talking 4 about medical services, -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 6 MR. BRAND: -- rather than medical and fire. My 7 question, we're in ESD Number 2, okay. And we've got a 8 board -- y'all have got a board. How is it going to work if 9 we go county-wide where we've got two ESD's already? And 10 basically you wind up with two different boards covering part 11 of the same thing. 12 MR. GROGG: Well, if you provide EMS, the EMS board 13 provides that. So, there are two ESD's. One of them covers 14 a larger area than you do, but they don't take any of your 15 fire money; they don't have any of your funds, and you don't 16 take any of theirs, but they work with you. And it can also 17 be a -- a training method to help train First Responders. It 18 can do a lot of things. There's a whole list of things it 19 can do, and then a longer list of what it can't do, but it's 20 all spelled out in the code. Again, like I said, if you need 21 some sleep, it's good reading. 22 MR. BRAND: Yeah. 23 MR. GROGG: But, no, it's -- you know, you don't 24 have to do it with fire departments. There's a way -- 25 there's one over in -- there's one ESD that covers 13 2-7-11 cc2 43 1 volunteer fire departments. I've known all the commissioners 2 there, and they've all quit because it's just -- there's no 3 way to win. Especially if these departments -- how long have 4 y'all been around? 5 MR. BRAND: Well, they said five years, but I think 6 it's longer than that. 7 MR. GROGG: No, no, no. How long has your 8 department been around? 9 AUDIENCE: 1959. 10 MR. BRAND: Yeah. 11 MR. GROGG: So, you know, there's a lot of history 12 there that it just probably wouldn't mix, you know. You 13 might let an ambulance park in the station, but nobody's 14 going to get on there and ride. So, it's -- the fire 15 departments are a very proud service. EMS is a very proud 16 service as well. These are people that really have the 17 ability to get out there and care and take the time to do it. 18 But now we're finding, just like y'all have, nobody 19 volunteers any more. It's just not -- there's too many other 20 things to do that are more fun than fighting fire, washing 21 fire trucks, rolling dirty hose. And EMS turnover -- you 22 know, volunteer EMS too. That's the reason we had to go to 23 fully paid staff -- they had to go to fully paid staff, 24 because you just -- and they're typically other fire 25 departments' paramedics, and this is their off job. This is 2-7-11 cc2 44 1 their day job or their second job. So, it's not -- to try to 2 tackle and do a county-wide fire district with all the 3 underlying fire departments would be a monster, because you'd 4 more than likely have all the volunteer fire departments 5 against it. That may be enough votes to stop -- stop one 6 that would do both, but it also could be enough votes to make 7 an ESD for EMS go through. 8 MR. BRAND: Okay. Well, my question would just be 9 how two boards would function together, I guess, basically 10 what it boils down to. 11 MR. GROGG: They can get along very -- 12 MR. BRAND: Ours is all local, of course, 13 county-wide. 14 MR. GROGG: Well, but there could be somebody from 15 your area that sits on this board. 16 MR. BRAND: Yeah, but there would be what, four 17 others. 18 MR. GROGG: You got one. 19 MR. BRAND: Thank you. 20 MR. BRONSON: I don't see how we can -- Jim 21 Bronson, 154 Aqua Vista Drive. I don't see how we can go a 22 whole lot further here unless somebody does a study, a 23 reasonable study, and looks at some scenarios and starts 24 throwing some numbers out. Because otherwise, we're just 25 kind of -- gee, do we have to pass a bill before we know 2-7-11 cc2 45 1 what's in the bill? I don't think we want to go in that 2 direction. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're in Kerr County; we 4 don't do that stuff. 5 MR. BRONSON: I don't think so. But I don't see 6 how any of these questions can be even, you know, reasonably 7 discussed until -- until there are some models and some 8 studies -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 10 MR. BRONSON: -- or comparisons done, and I don't 11 know who's going to do that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. All we wanted to do 13 today is just open the doors and say, "Here's some thoughts 14 that we're having." And I appreciate every one of you for 15 coming. This gentleman has something to say. Why don't you 16 just say it? 17 MR. REHFIELD: My name's Derek Rehfield. I live at 18 301 Casa. I'm one of those Kerrville firemen. I'm also a 19 First Responder out in the county. I can tell you that I 20 have responded many times to many different calls in many 21 different areas. I'm not the only one. There's a number of 22 us that respond on our off days. We hear a bad call on the 23 radio and we take off. We don't care if it's in our -- this 24 line or that line. We go because people need the help. 25 There's a number of people in this room that I've worked with 2-7-11 cc2 46 1 over the years that I've just been blessed to have. We love 2 this area. We're in this area. We live in this area, and I 3 plead, plead, plead with y'all to seriously take into 4 consideration that a private agency may or may not have those 5 same ties that we do. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MR. REHFIELD: Just seriously consider that, that a 8 private agency or a new start-up -- not saying that those are 9 bad ideas. Those are options, that everybody has a choice. 10 But the people that are here, that have a vested interest in 11 this area, are the ones that are already doing it, and 12 they're the ones that, when you have an emergency, will show 13 up; these gentlemen over here, these guys back in here. Just 14 keep an eye on the fact that we need to maintain what we have 15 and make it better, and not give it away to somebody else 16 that may or may not have that same interest. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. Yes, 18 sir? 19 MR. BOOKER: I'm Bill Booker; I live in Hunt. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hi, Bill. 21 MR. BOOKER: 238 Ranch Rim Drive. I have a 22 question about -- you said we could, you know, have the 23 prepositioned ambulance, and that's going to help. I think 24 you mentioned that the EMS paramedics -- or the paramedics 25 and the people that respond that are on these ambulances have 2-7-11 cc2 47 1 a lot of training, and the concept of care for these patients 2 I don't think should be compromised by volunteers. I think 3 it's important enough to have trained people. And if we have 4 an ambulance in Hunt, for example, I personally would be very 5 much in favor of having it staffed full-time, not by 6 volunteers. It's more important than that. That statement 7 was made already. I don't see how prepositioning of an 8 ambulance and beeping a volunteer with a beeper like this -- 9 I'm on the Hunt Volunteer Fire Department -- and they get out 10 of bed at 2:00 in the morning and drive down to the 11 ambulance, and they can't roll unless you got a couple of 12 people, so I don't think it's a real good idea. I'm ACLS/BLS 13 trained myself, and I've been part of this. And I really 14 don't -- not at all have found the idea of having volunteer 15 EMS people responding, and calling that the health care 16 situation, I just don't think it's at all a good idea. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 18 percent. 19 MR. BOOKER: Thank you. 20 MR. GROGG: Me too. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Absolutely. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a nice note to stop 23 on. Counselor, do you have anything? 24 MR. HENNEKE: No, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear that? A lawyer 2-7-11 cc2 48 1 doesn't want to talk. There's a first. Did you get that 2 down? Thank you very much. Judge, do you have anything that 3 you want to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't give me an opportunity, 5 and I'm a lawyer. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 7 AUDIENCE: Don't get him started. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've got to be in San 9 Antonio tomorrow, too. Y'all have anything, you 10 Commissioners? 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. Very good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We thank all of you for being here, 13 and your interest. And as Commissioner Baldwin said, we 14 opened the door, and let's keep looking to see what's inside. 15 If it's something that'll be beneficial for the citizens of 16 this county, obviously, we need to consider it. The last 17 thing our Commissioners Court wants to do is compromise the 18 level of service. That much I can tell you. The highest 19 level of service is what we want for our citizens and 20 taxpayers. Now, if we can improve that level of service by 21 improving response times, improving the economics, improving 22 the stability or any other factors that come into play for 23 operating EMS, that's what we want to do. We want to achieve 24 the most efficient model with the best service possible. 25 That's where we're trying to go. Thank you for being here, 2-7-11 cc2 49 1 and have a good evening. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we adjourned, sir? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we're adjourned. 4 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 7:41 p.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 STATE OF TEXAS | 9 COUNTY OF KERR | 10 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 11 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 12 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 13 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 14 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 10th day of February, 15 2011. 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-7-11 cc2