1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, March 28, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 28, 2011 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 6 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Public Hearing concerning the installation of 5 stop signs at both intersections of Windmill Drive North and Green Oak Drive North, Precinct 3 13 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 7 the Court's final approval to install stop signs at both intersections of Windmill Drive North and 8 Green Oak Drive North, Precinct 3 14 9 1.3 Public Hearing concerning revision of plat for Lots 77 & 78KR of Falling Waters Subdivision, 10 Volume 6, Page 300, Precinct 3 15 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for the Court's final approval concerning revision 12 of plat for Lots 77 & 78KR of Falling Waters Subdivision, Volume 6, Page 300, Precinct 3 16 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 14 a public hearing concerning the road name "Ed's Way West" in Precinct 4 17 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 establish a fee to pick up euthanized animals from area veterinarians; include in fee schedule 18 17 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 establish fee for replacement registration tags and include in fee schedule 24 19 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 installation of safety grates on the flow tubes associated with Center Point Crossing Street Bridge 25 21 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 22 salary supplement correction and payment to 198th District Attorney from January 2009 to present 27 23 4.1 Pay Bills 36 24 4.2 Budget Amendments 37 4.3 Late Bills -- 25 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 42 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) March 28, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on city interlocal cooperative workshop and MOU from City- 4 County Benefits Services for exploratory phase 43 5 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to open, read, & award annual bids for road base, cold mix, 6 aggregate, emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe 49, 103 7 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on presentation from Betty Collier, Grantworks 8 representative, on grant request to complete final phase of Kerrville South water/sewer project 50 9 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 petition against replacement of Arrowhead Bridge 61 11 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to award bank depository contract 81 12 1.15 Presentation from Bill Amerine/Mark Del Toro 13 regarding 911 changes that must be done if Kerr County changes the EMS contract 81 14 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 formally request that Dr. Curtis C. McCubbin grant the State of Texas, TexDOT, and/or Kerr 16 County a temporary construction license for the purpose of construction for the improvement of 17 Arrowhead Road; execute all necessary documents 93 18 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to formally request that Divide River Ranch, LLC, 19 through its authorized agent, grant the State of Texas, TexDOT, and/or Kerr County a temporary 20 construction license for the purpose of construction for the improvement of Arrowhead Road; execute all 21 necessary documents 93 22 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to commence proceedings pursuant to Chapter 21 23 of Texas Property Code to obtain necessary easements upon real property along Arrowhead 24 Road owned each by Dr. Curtis C. McCubbin and Divide River Ranch, LLC, in Kerr County, Texas, 25 for the purpose of construction for the improvement of Arrowhead Road --- 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) March 28, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on interlocal agreement for fire services with 4 City of Kerrville 105 5 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 147 6 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 148 7 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to confer with County Attorney regarding status of 8 LCRA-CREZ litigation, and consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize pursuit of 9 appellate remedies (Executive Session) --- 10 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed in Executive Session 159 11 --- Adjourned 160 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, March 28, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, Monday, March 28th, 2011, at 9 a.m. If you would 11 please stand, join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the 12 pledge of allegiance to our country. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My favorite part. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 17 of the public or audience that wishes to be heard with regard 18 to any matter which is not a listed agenda item, this is your 19 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind 20 about that particular subject. If you wish to be heard on an 21 agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a participation 22 form. There should be some at the rear of the room. If not, 23 if you'll get my attention when we come to that agenda item 24 in some manner, I'll be happy to recognize you and give you 25 an opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's any 3-28-11 6 1 member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard on 2 any matter which is not a listed agenda item, please come 3 forward and give us your name and address and tell us what's 4 on your mind. Yes, sir? 5 MR. LEE: Chris Lee, 909 Golf Avenue, Kerrville, 6 Texas, president of the Kerrville Firefighters Association. 7 I'd just like to take this time to thank Commissioner Oehler 8 and Commissioner Overby for attending our meeting on Friday. 9 Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else wish to be 11 heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item? Seeing 12 no one else coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner 13 Baldwin, do you have anything for us this morning? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I do. I have a couple 15 of things. Historical Commission will be on the next agenda. 16 The Judge is going to make a presentation to them, a state 17 award, and at that time also, I'm going to have on there the 18 list of appointed members that we've kind of shoved off in 19 the corner. We need to get that done, 'cause the -- the 20 paperwork says that we shall get them appointed in January, 21 and we're a little bit past January. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've appointed them; we 23 just haven't confirmed them. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we may have some more 25 people, though, is the issue. 3-28-11 7 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just do it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just do it. So, y'all 5 -- whatever you guys are going to do, mine's full. I'm 6 ready. My precinct's ready to go. So, if you guys want to 7 add or subtract or whatever you want to do, be ready the next 8 -- next agenda. Had a meeting the end of last week with an 9 EMS guru, and very -- very bright fellow that knows his way 10 around. He -- he's well-known statewide, and has some great 11 information. Long, extensive meeting, and learned a lot of 12 things. And I, for one, am going to keep moving forward with 13 that -- with that thought and keep -- keep the fires burning. 14 Just wanted to let y'all know about that. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very good. Commissioners, 16 just basically, -- I'm glad you covered it in the prayer 17 already -- rain is definitely needed in our area, opportunity 18 to get some rain. Right now it's good to see some clouds 19 that -- it even looked like it was going to rain Friday 20 night; it was promising to look at. So, continue to keep 21 that as a -- a request and a priority. That's all I've got 22 to say for Precinct 2. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a follow-up to rain, it's 25 getting closer. Part of Gillespie County had a third of an 3-28-11 8 1 inch. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they did, Harper. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I saw it from my hill. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's promising. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is, I think 6 most of the Little League organizations in Kerr County had 7 their opening day Saturday, and I know Kerrville was 8 jam-packed. Comfort was packed. Center Point had theirs 9 split in several different locations because of where they 10 were playing, kind of, opening games. And all these -- I 11 think Ingram, I think they probably had their opening day as 12 well. I wasn't out in Ingram, but there are a lot of kids 13 participating in a lot of youth baseball, which is good. 14 Keeps the kids off the street, keeps them involved. And for 15 those that don't know, we have quite a contingency from our 16 courthouse staff that are working hard with youth baseball 17 throughout the county. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This last week, all the 22 volunteer fire departments were asked to submit information 23 regarding equipment, number of volunteers, all the things 24 that they have as far as rescue equipment and whatever. And 25 I believe -- I know that my four did. And hopefully that 3-28-11 9 1 information will get disseminated to the media this week. 2 It's pretty surprising to see what they have done to build 3 those departments up over the last years, and -- and the 4 training levels and the -- and the volunteers that do the 5 service don't just show up, put on bunker gear, jump on a 6 truck and squirt water. That's just not the way it works any 7 more. And I tell you what, they're doing a mighty fine job, 8 and I think the public is going to be surprised at the amount 9 of money that they have in their -- that they expend annually 10 out of their budgets, and -- and the amount of equipment 11 they've acquired over the years. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To follow up a little bit on 13 that, not just that the amount of training, but the amount of 14 paramedics, nurses, and EMT's that are in these departments. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Law enforcement, too. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And law enforcement that are in 17 these departments. It's surprising. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: They do a wonderful job. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They do. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All of them do. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So I think that's a good 22 thing that was -- was gotten together last week, and -- and 23 my four were more than -- more than happy to do it. And some 24 of them spent quite a bit of time writing out those reports 25 to us. So -- 3-28-11 10 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what surprised 2 me about it? I looked over one of them that came in early. 3 The number of those guys that are certified by the state. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That have been, I guess, to 6 A & M probably and taken the training, and -- I mean, they're 7 literally certified firefighters. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're hazmat certified. 9 They're -- I mean, it's not just fire. It's -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- pretty amazing. Which is 12 good. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It really is. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, anyway, that's kind of -- 15 I really was glad to feel the need to do that, and I'm glad 16 that it got done, and looking for it to be put together and 17 put out to the public so they know where we stand outside the 18 City of Kerrville. That's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Public needs to -- needs 20 to know what the capabilities are of those that are serving 21 them. A couple of items that I have. First one, we have the 22 upcoming retirement of a public servant of many, many years. 23 He's an elected official, constable out in Precinct 4, Bob 24 Terrill. Bob has decided to retire at the end of this month. 25 He's given many years of service to the county, many years of 3-28-11 11 1 service to his country, honorably retired from a 2 distinguished career in the military. Then he began serving 3 in law enforcement, first as a deputy constable out in 4 Precinct 4 under T.D. Hall. Later, he became constable out 5 there, and has done us a very, very fine job. Probably the 6 only guy in county government that I recall that we had to 7 say, "No, we're going to put some money in your budget; you 8 might need it." He'd say, "Well, I figure I can get by 9 without that." "No, no, Bob, you might need some money, 10 so -- so we don't have a problem. If you don't use it, 11 that's fine; it'll go back in the kitty. But you might need 12 it, and we don't want to have to jump through the hoops to 13 add something to your budget during midyear." So, "Well, all 14 right. If you want to put it in there, that's fine." But he 15 never spent it, of course. He's a fine gentleman. He's done 16 great service to this county, and he deserves some time on 17 his own. He tells me he's planning on doing some traveling, 18 something he's wanted to do for a number of years, and we 19 wish him well. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I'll add to that just 21 a little bit, too, being as he's in Precinct 4. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You bet. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's always furnished his own 24 vehicle, too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yep. 3-28-11 12 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And he has never asked for 2 the County to purchase a vehicle for him to use for his job. 3 And Bob has been a great guy. And so far, I have received 4 seven people who have responded to want the appointment for 5 his job once he retires, so I assume we'll take that up 6 probably in the first meeting in April? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. The other matter that I've 8 got, I was advised over the weekend -- of course, we had 9 Market Days that started again for this season out here on 10 the courthouse square. They've -- they've had that operation 11 going how many years now? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A lot. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Six? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it was huge this 15 weekend. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They have done an absolute stellar 17 job. I don't recall that we have received a single complaint 18 about their operation through the years. They believe in the 19 old adage, you leave an area cleaner than when you got there. 20 They've worked well with other nonprofits that have events 21 here on the courthouse property so that they can benefit from 22 each other's traffic. Just been a real stellar operation. 23 I've been advised that the Market Days organization is going 24 to head up the 4th of July celebration for Kerrville this 25 year. They have some great plans for it. Their 3-28-11 13 1 organizational skills are -- are tremendous. You've seen how 2 they've pulled off the Market Days. I think they'll do as 3 good a job with whatever task they're given. LuAnn and 4 Jackie have done a great job. LuAnn told me one thing; now, 5 they're not in charge of the music. They're not going to get 6 involved in that. They -- they don't want to deal with the 7 performers, I guess. But all the rest of it, they're 8 coordinating it. So, we wish them well. Let's get on with 9 our agenda. At this time, I will recess the Commissioners 10 Court meeting, and I will convene a public hearing concerning 11 the installation of stop signs at both intersections of 12 Windmill Drive North and Green Oak Drive North located in 13 Precinct 3. 14 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:12 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 15 court, as follows:) 16 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 18 audience that wishes to be heard concerning the installation 19 of stop signs at both intersections of Windmill Drive North 20 and Green Oak Drive North located in Precinct 3? Seeing no 21 one coming forward, I will close the public hearing 22 concerning the installation of stop signs at both 23 intersections of Windmill Drive North and Green Oak Drive 24 North located in Precinct 3, and reconvene the Commissioners 25 Court meeting. 3-28-11 14 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:12 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 2 reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 2; consider, discuss, and take 5 appropriate action for the Court's approval -- final approval 6 to install stop signs at both intersections of Windmill Drive 7 North and Green Oak Drive North, and located in Precinct 3. 8 Mr. Odom? 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Lang made a request 10 January the 22nd, 2011, for stop signs to be installed at 11 both intersections of Windmill Drive North and Green Oak 12 Drive North. There are two developments in this vicinity. 13 One is Packsaddle Acres, and the other is Hill Country Ranch 14 Estates. Both were done in the mid-'60's, I believe, and at 15 that time they did not have subdivision rules. And normally 16 a sign sheet is -- is performed when you make a new 17 subdivision. This was not done. Windmill Drive intersects, 18 goes around, and comes out both ends, and Mr. Lang has a 19 concern that there will be an accident someday at one of 20 these intersections. Under the current rules and 21 regulations, developer would be required to install the stop 22 signs at both these locations, but that's 50 years ago, so 23 that's not going to happen. At this time, we ask the Court 24 for their final approval to install stop signs at both 25 intersections, Windmill Drive North and Green Oak Drive 3-28-11 15 1 North, Precinct 3. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 6 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. At this 11 time, I will recess the Commissioner Court meeting again, and 12 convene a public hearing on Item 3, public hearing concerning 13 the revision of plat for Lots 77 and 78KR of Falling Waters 14 Subdivision, found in Volume 6, Page 300, Plat Records, 15 located in Precinct 3. 16 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:16 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 17 court, as follows:) 18 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 20 audience that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of 21 plat for Lots 77 and 78KR of Falling Waters Subdivision as 22 found in Volume 6, Page 300, Plat Records, and located in 23 Precinct 3? Seeing no one coming forward, I will close the 24 public hearing concerning the revision of plat for Lots 77 25 and 78KR of Falling Water Subdivision, as found in Volume 6, 3-28-11 16 1 Page 300, Plat Records, and located in Precinct 3. 2 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:16 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 3 reopened.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 6 Commissioners Court meeting, and we will go to Item 4; 7 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the 8 Court's final approval concerning the revision of plat for 9 Lots 77 and 78KR of Falling Waters Subdivision, found in 10 Volume 6, Page 300, located in Precinct 3. Mr. Odom? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. and Mrs. Jones own lots 12 77 and 78KR, and would like to combine both lots to become 13 Lot 77R containing 7.67 acres. At this time, we ask the 14 Court for their final approval concerning the revision of 15 plat for Lots 77 and 78KR of Falling Waters Subdivision, 16 found in Volume 6, Page 300, Precinct 3. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 21 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 3-28-11 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll go to Item 2 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to set a 3 public hearing concerning the road name of Ed's Way West 4 located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I believe the Court is 6 familiar with this. This has come before you before, 7 changing the location of this road. This happens to be that 8 road between Cummings and Highway 27 that 911, years ago, had 9 named Cummings Lane. This particular stretch of road, Mr. 10 and Mrs. Doyle have requested through 911 office and Road and 11 Bridge the proposed road name of Ed's Way West, Precinct 4, 12 which we at one time had considered Cummings Lane. We had 13 also maintained that, because we assumed it was Cummings 14 Lane. We were told that another section was a private road 15 and did not extend beyond that, but that's been corrected. 16 So, at this time, we ask the Court to set a public hearing 17 concerning the road name Ed's Way West, Precinct 4, for 18 Monday, April 11th, 2011, at 9:10 a.m. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item, and set a public hearing on the 23 matter for April the 11th, 2011, at 9:10 a.m. Question or 24 discussion on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- I thought we did 3-28-11 18 1 something out there last year. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we did, but what we did 3 was we reaffirmed where Cummings lane was supposed to be, 4 instead of where this road is, and so we need to rename it, 5 'cause it's not the same road. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And this is the beginnings of 8 doing that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Other question or discussion on the 11 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item 17 6; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 18 establish a fee to pick up euthanized animals from area 19 veterinarians and include in the fee schedule. Ms. Whitt? 20 MS. WHITT: Well, for as long as I can remember, 21 Animal Control has been picking up euthanized animals and 22 disposing of them for the area vets. Now, we've been 23 charging them a $10 fee. From what I understand, there was 24 never a court order on that. This was just done as a 25 courtesy. So, back in December, we -- we stopped doing this. 3-28-11 19 1 Well, I've gotten a couple of phone calls from some area vets 2 that would like us to continue this service. However, I feel 3 that with the rising fuel cost and -- and being a half person 4 short, I think we ought to raise the fees. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Or establish the fee officially? 6 MS. WHITT: Or establish -- yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 8 MS. WHITT: Establish it and raise it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- what's the -- what is our 10 cost to get rid of the euthanized animals? 11 MS. WHITT: We're not charged by the landfill. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not charged? They're 13 doing it free? 14 MS. WHITT: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's just our manpower 16 time. 17 MS. WHITT: Time, exactly. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And vehicle time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do you think is an 20 appropriate -- 21 MS. WHITT: I would say $25 to $30 a load. And the 22 reason I say that is because, number one, the majority of 23 animals that we're making runs are extremely large animals, 24 so I'm having to send two officers out, because they don't -- 25 the vets don't have the staff available either to help my 3-28-11 20 1 officers load the trucks. So, I'm having to -- 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You're sending two folks out 3 on the call, then, right? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What kind of animals are they 5 euthanizing? 6 MS. WHITT: Dogs. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mostly dogs? 8 MS. WHITT: Large -- yeah, and the majority of them 9 are large. Large dogs. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Are they picked up weekly? 11 Or do you -- 12 MS. WHITT: It just depends. It depends. When 13 their -- their freezers get full, then they call us. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 15 MS. WHITT: Sometimes weekly, sometimes -- I know 16 that sounds horrible, but ... 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you thought about maybe a 18 two-tiered -- under 25 pounds and over 25 pounds, or some -- 19 some break in there? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I mean, I kind of like 21 that approach. Maybe -- 22 MS. WHITT: The thing is, we don't have scales. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's true. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They do. 25 MS. WHITT: Yeah. I mean, true. I just feel that 3-28-11 21 1 that would take more time to go through, you know, that whole 2 process. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say that, you know, 4 once they -- once they get a load, the load is going to 5 probably be pretty consistent each time. In weight, it's not 6 going to vary a whole lot, I wouldn't think. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many of the veterinarians 8 have actual refrigeration units at their facilities? 9 MS. WHITT: Actually, there's only four vets that 10 we -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Work with? 12 MS. WHITT: -- provided this service for. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 14 MS. WHITT: The rest of them dispose of them -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Themselves. 16 MS. WHITT: -- themselves. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't you and I talk about 19 maybe one of the veterinarians having -- being -- 20 MS. WHITT: Exempt? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- an exception, or -- 22 MS. WHITT: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- being exempt from this 24 because of service they perform for us? 25 MS. WHITT: Yeah. You know, I was going to get to 3-28-11 22 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 3 MS. WHITT: There is one vet that works with us, 4 free of charge. They do all of our cruelty investigations, 5 check-ups on the animals. They provide all of the written 6 statements for us, things of that nature, and they do it at 7 no -- at no charge. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we ought to 9 charge them. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 11 MS. WHITT: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If anybody deserves a pass, that one 13 does. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, though, we ought to do 16 some kind of a very simple agreement with them so that 17 there's not a perception of not uniform treatment. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, I agree with that. 19 It's because of what they do, the service for the County. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it needs to so state 22 that, so that the others can't come back and say, you know, 23 "You're giving preferential treatment." 24 MS. WHITT: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He needs something to do over 3-28-11 23 1 there. 2 MR. HENNEKE: Old "what's-his-name"? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's-his-name. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We're going to get that sign 5 at the break. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would move that we 8 establish the fee at $30 a load. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See how it works. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: A load? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what she's saying; a 13 load, not per animal. This is a load. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A trip. 15 MS. WHITT: Yes, a trip. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When she's called to come 17 pick them up. That's what I'm saying. It's not per animal. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may be one animal; it may be 19 a load. Whatever it is, it's $30. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just get past this, 22 okay? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also that the County 24 Attorney draft an agreement with the other vet that does 25 service for the County, so that -- 3-28-11 24 1 MS. WHITT: Are y'all going to exempt that one vet 2 in the meantime? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm saying. 4 MR. HENNEKE: We'll bring that back. Janie, if 5 you'll get with me on that? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right now, we're going to 7 establish the $30 fee. 8 MS. WHITT: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second? 13 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 15 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 16 by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 21 Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 22 establish a fee for replacement registration tags and include 23 that in the fee schedule. Ms. Whitt again. 24 MS. WHITT: Well, at the moment, we don't have -- 25 and we never have had a fee for replacement tags. Actually, 3-28-11 25 1 just three years ago, we started doing registrations out of 2 our office. In the past, it was always done by the vets, so 3 their -- their vaccination tag served as a registration tag 4 as well. Things have changed now; they get their vaccination 5 tag from the vet, and then they come into our office, they 6 register their animal there, and they receive a separate 7 registration tag. If their animal loses it, which is 8 happening quite a bit, people are wanting a replacement tag, 9 and we don't have anything established that, you know, we can 10 issue a -- a replacement tag. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five dollars? 12 MS. WHITT: Right, that's what I'm thinking. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion, Commissioner 15 Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Replacement tag, $5. We have 18 a motion and a second. Question or discussion on the motion? 19 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 25 Item 8; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action on the 3-28-11 26 1 installation of safety grates on the flow tubes associated 2 with the Center Point Crossing Street Bridge, installation of 3 the grates on the Crossing Street Bridge to be provided by 4 the Kerr County Road and Bridge Department. Commissioner 5 Overby? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioners, Judge, I had 7 this on the agenda today asking for your approval. Last week 8 I did meet with the Center Point Crossing Street Bridge 9 Committee. Again, in looking at the bridge, we have -- do 10 not have any safety grates or bridge grates on the bridge 11 itself. It has -- we actually have those; they're at the 12 Kerr County Road and Bridge Department. We do have those, 13 and our department there can install those on the bridge. Of 14 course, there's five flow tubes that are there that are 15 associated with the bridge, and more of a safety issue here 16 than anything, to make sure, obviously, with the summer 17 months coming and lots of folks out there enjoying the 18 Guadalupe, we want to make sure that it's safe as we can. 19 So, we have the grates, and we can install those, and there 20 would be no expense to us. And, again, that was just a 21 recommendation, and -- from the bridge committee that we met 22 with last week. I would seek your request for installing 23 those. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And you so move? 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Make that motion. 3-28-11 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 9 Item 9; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 10 salary supplement correction and payment to the 198th 11 District Attorney from January 2009 to current. The item was 12 placed on the agenda at the request of District Attorney Amos 13 Barton. Ms. Hargis is here. I understand Mr. Barton is in 14 court, I believe? 15 MS. HARGIS: I wasn't prepared to bring the 16 statute. I'm hoping he gave you a copy of that statute. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It's there. 18 MS. HARGIS: Under the statute, the D.A.'s get the 19 same supplement as the District Judges, and we hadn't been 20 paying for the additional supplement that the judges get. 21 This is shared by all counties, but it's generally, a 22 District Judge can make 125,000, and then a maximum of 139. 23 They can't make more than the Supreme Court Judge, and the 24 Supreme Court Judges make 140, so they're capped at 139. 25 Both judges receive a supplement. The supplements are -- we 3-28-11 28 1 give, for instance, both judges a supplement of 2,550 per 2 year, and then the other counties give them the same 3 supplement, up to the 14,000. So, Amos is basically asking 4 us for the same supplement that Judge Emerson has been 5 receiving, or -- or his predecessor, from January '09 to the 6 present. Which, with roll-ups and everything, is probably 7 going to be close to -- between $6,500 and $7,000. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Kerr County's portion of 9 the -- 10 MS. HARGIS: That's Kerr County's portion only. 11 It's not -- what the other counties do is not our 12 responsibility. He has the right to request these. I asked 13 him to put it on the agenda, because I -- you know, it wasn't 14 budgeted. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about -- is the 216th 16 D.A. -- is he in the same situation? 17 MS. HARGIS: Mr. Curry came by and visited with me 18 last week on Thursday, and -- on Thursday or Friday, and he 19 will probably request that in the current budget, but he's 20 not requesting any back funds. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You -- it says here that the 22 amount less than the compensation it pays its highest-paid 23 District Judge, we shall pay. 24 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The same as highest-paid 3-28-11 29 1 District Judge. And then you -- you refer to Judge Emerson a 2 couple times. Is he our highest paid District Judge? 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, they both make the same. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I thought. 5 MS. HARGIS: Under the legal requirements, again, 6 125 is what the salary is that they get from the State of 7 Texas, and then the supplement -- each Judge gets a different 8 supplement. Now, Judge Emerson's supplement is not as high 9 as -- as Judge Williams', because he has smaller counties. 10 But our supplement for Kerr County is the same for both 11 judges. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Smaller counties. You just 13 answered my question. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like this should 15 have been brought to our attention a long time ago. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, like in the budget. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. But if it's owed, 19 it's owed. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I understand that too. 21 But, you know, what is the statute of limitations on "owed"? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. Six months in. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you located a source for 24 that fund -- funding? 25 MS. HARGIS: Have to take it out of what we've got 3-28-11 30 1 left in contingency, which seems to be reducing quite -- you 2 know, they are getting the supplement for the -- the juvenile 3 judges, and district -- Amos was the one who brought that to 4 our attention. And it wasn't my responsibility to tell him 5 what his supplements were for the other judges, because 6 that's not -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we can take it out of 9 his seizure fund. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to talk to him about 11 that? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't mind, but it probably 13 won't do any good. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we comfortable, from a 15 legal standpoint, that this is correct? 16 MR. HENNEKE: I've got -- I mean, the statute's 17 there, attached for the Court. I would like -- maybe we can 18 bring this back at the next meeting. My question -- the 19 first question that I have is with regard to past budgets. 20 We're talking -- we're in the third fiscal year since 21 Mr. Barton has taken office, and I can't tell you 22 off-the-cuff how, you know, moneys that may have been 23 appropriated in the past two years budgets, which are closed, 24 come up now. And -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good point. 3-28-11 31 1 MR. HENNEKE: -- I'm -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's worth looking into, 3 because it's -- you know, once you're past the time and a 4 budget's closed, you know, I don't -- 5 MR. HENNEKE: And do we know, -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's an interesting question. 7 MR. HENNEKE: -- were these sums requested when we 8 did the budget each year? 9 MS. HARGIS: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 12 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. Well, then -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got a lawyer over here 14 trying to apply common sense. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that disturb you, Buster? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It bothers me just a little. 17 (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we ought to give him 19 a little more time to apply that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. So -- but what I'm 21 reading here, though, is -- is that he -- back pay is 5,700 22 bucks. 23 MS. HARGIS: That doesn't include roll-ups. That 24 would -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't include the 3-28-11 32 1 roll-ups. And then going forward for the remainder of the 2 year. 3 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 5 MS. HARGIS: It's -- basically, the net is $106.25 6 per -- per payroll. It's about $250 a month. Two hundred -- 7 you know, 215, 250. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think if we find out 9 that we need to be doing this and paying him, that we would 10 -- when we come back in here with it, we will need to come 11 back with a total number to finish out the year. 12 MS. HARGIS: I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: But I was hoping that District 15 Attorney Amos would be representing himself, instead of -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think bringing it back makes 17 sense. And, I mean, since he's been -- he's been receiving a 18 supplement of $100, from what I -- 19 MS. HARGIS: No, he just -- he's receiving a 20 supplement for the juvenile. The juvenile is $50. But they 21 get -- 22 MR. HENNEKE: It's 100. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says 100 in the backup. 24 MS. HARGIS: $50 a pay period. I'm thinking a pay 25 period, but it's $100 a month, $1,200 a year. Now, he did 3-28-11 33 1 bring that up almost immediately, when he -- when he found 2 out that one was available. 3 MR. HENNEKE: He receives the juvenile supplement 4 in Kerr County? 5 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. They all -- they receive any 6 supplement -- according to the law, any supplement that the 7 District Judges get, and the District Judges get the same. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do they have to ask for this 9 to be placed in the budget, or is it just supposed to be 10 automatically done? Or we're just supposed to it without 11 being asked? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what the County 13 Attorney's going to look into. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just giving him more 15 questions. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 17 MS. HARGIS: That's a question I can't answer. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jeannie, let me -- clarify 19 something for me here. Did I hear you just say that -- that 20 the D.A.'s get the same supplement as the Juvenile Board? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They are on the Juvenile Board, 22 technically. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, they are? 24 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Generally, it's just you 3-28-11 34 1 three guys that do the -- do the D.A.'s show up for meetings? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we pay them for not 4 showing up. I love this country. This is great stuff. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that particular 6 agenda item, gentlemen? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I was just wondering 8 if they've been beating the door down trying to give it back 9 to the taxpayers, money that they've received for doing 10 nothing. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You can sure ask them. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm asking here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're asking one question 15 and I'm asking another. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He's going to handle the seizure 17 fund; you're going to ask about the beating the door down. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go to Item 10; to 20 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on interlocal 21 agreement for fire services with the City of Kerrville. 22 Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I request that you hear 24 this later on the agenda. I think we need to go into closed 25 session on that because of contractual obligations and some 3-28-11 35 1 other information. And I can visit with the County Attorney 2 during the break about my reason, and if he disagrees, we'll 3 do it in open session. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All-righty. Let's go to Item 16 -- 5 no, we can't do that either, can we? We're moving right 6 along here, aren't we? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the problem with timed 8 items sometimes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We're going to put all the 10 timed items in at 9 o'clock henceforth, I guess. Let's go to 11 Item 18; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 12 formally request that Dr. Curtis C. McCubbin grant the State 13 of Texas, Texas Department of Transportation, and/or Kerr 14 County a temporary construction license for the purpose of 15 construction for the improvement of Arrowhead Road, and 16 execute all necessary documents. Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I don't believe that 18 Mr. McCub -- Dr. McCubbin is here yet. Their deal is timed 19 for 10:15, for them to appear on the petition. Did that -- I 20 thought that agenda item was supposed to include Dr. Killian 21 as well. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is here at 10:15. 23 MR. HENNEKE: It's 1.19. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two separate agenda items? 25 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir, two different properties. 3-28-11 36 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can -- I just need to get 2 the names right. We can formally ask, but they're not here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the next thing. It 4 wasn't a timed item or executive session. That's the reason 5 I've gone to it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could look at bills. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I guess that's what we're 8 going to do. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We could do this Item 10 Number -- it would be Item 12. I do have -- Betty Collier is 11 here from Grantworks; we could proceed with that. 12 Ms. Collier, there's nobody else here, is there? Okay. 13 It's -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's timed. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a timed item. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go to Section 4 of the 18 agenda, payment of the bills. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move we pay the bills. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 22 bills. Question or discussion? A couple of items. I asked 23 the -- on Page 2, you'll note that there's a rather large 24 amount of civil Court-appointed attorneys, the last one 25 there, of almost $8,700. That one, of course, jumps off the 3-28-11 37 1 page at you. I had the Auditor's office pull that one up. 2 As some folks will recall, there was a C.P.S. issue dealing 3 with the children of a local resident who was convicted as a 4 result of a crime up in McLennan County, in Waco. And this 5 is apparently a Waco attorney who was appointed, I guess, as 6 the ad litem, and by court order, apparently. I don't think 7 it was one of our judges. Was that a -- a McLennan County 8 Judge that entered the order? 9 MS. MABRY: I believe -- I believe it was Rex that 10 signed that order. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. This is a Waco attorney. 12 That's a pretty good size hit. I just wanted to bring that 13 to the Court's attention. The other -- the other thing I 14 wanted to look at -- and I don't know; and I've not asked the 15 Auditor yet. I notice that the utility bill from the City at 16 the new annex building is quite low. Happy to see that. Be 17 interested in knowing what the KPUB bill's going to be there. 18 Hopefully, that'll be proportionately low too. Any other 19 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to 25 next item, budget amendments. I've been presented with a 3-28-11 38 1 summary for Budget Amendment Request Numbers 1 through 5. 2 Any questions on those, Commissioners? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I hear a second? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You heard an "mm-hmm." 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No second. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 11 approval of the Budget Amendment Request Items 1 through 5. 12 Question or discussion? 13 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, one of my budget amendment 14 requests is on there, and I wanted to put this out in front 15 of the Court. The gentleman -- you'll recall that last 16 summer we hired a part-time summer clerical person whose name 17 is Hunter Moose; a young man that did a very, very good job. 18 He's a college student at Texas A & M University, worked 19 really hard. Everybody liked him, got along with him. After 20 the summer was over, completely unrelated, but his mother was 21 hired to replace Barbara, and she works as the legal 22 assistant in the office. I would like to have Hunter come 23 back and work again during the summer. It really helps to 24 move some of the clerical work along that we don't 25 necessarily keep up, you know, in the day-to-day activities. 3-28-11 39 1 He works hard. But -- and there's no conflict -- I've 2 checked with Eva -- since Hunter was hired first. Now that 3 his mother, Jerilee, works in the County Attorney's office, 4 there's not a conflict on that, since he was already 5 existing. But, you know, the funds are available. The funds 6 are available in those line items, given some of the 7 vacancies that I've had and some of the budgeting things that 8 I've done. But if there's any -- any concern or -- or any 9 comment about that, I want to make sure I put that in the 10 open. I don't have to hire him. We're operating just fine, 11 and if anybody has any objection, then I just won't. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is he still a student 13 currently at Tech? 14 MR. HENNEKE: At A & M. He's -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I stand corrected there. 16 MR. HENNEKE: I think he's -- 17 MR. ODOM: You should hire him. (Laughter.) 18 MR. HENNEKE: He is -- he's either finishing his 19 freshman or sophomore year. According to his mom, he's doing 20 well. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 22 MR. HENNEKE: Studying hard. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that he may have a 25 rougher -- rougher job of it with his mom looking over his 3-28-11 40 1 shoulder in some respects. He might be better off if there 2 were somebody else there. If he would -- 3 MR. HENNEKE: Well, but he's a hard worker, and I 4 don't think that he could work any harder than he did last 5 summer. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: He's a good young man, and I think 7 his ultimate intent is to go to law school. 8 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: He's expressed that intent, at least 10 to my wife and I, and seems to be pretty well on track to do 11 exactly that. I think he's a good young man. I -- I know he 12 did you a good job. 13 MR. HENNEKE: I got to know him first when he was 14 on the Tivy Mock Trial Team; I coached that for the four 15 years through high school, and he is -- he's a very fine 16 young man, a hard worker. And he did great work last summer. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no problem with it. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for the heads-up. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'd just like to say, I think 21 it's great when we have an opportunity, when we have students 22 like this who come back and participate in college programs, 23 or we can encourage folks that want to get involved in 24 programs like this, or, you know, in these areas, I think we 25 try to do as much as we can to encourage that while they're 3-28-11 41 1 home back during the summertime for a few months. I think 2 it's great that you're working with him. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A & M or not. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Whether it's Tech, A & M, or 5 U.T. 6 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, gentlemen. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, while we're on the subject 8 of these young people, we occasionally have young people that 9 work as interns. We presently have one that's working for 10 us, for the Commissioners and myself, a young lady that is a 11 senior at Schreiner this year. She did some intern work at 12 the County Attorney's office, I believe, last year, or year 13 before. 14 MR. HENNEKE: Year before. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And her intention is to go to law 16 school. Very -- very focused. It's not something she's 17 required to do because of her course work. Occasionally, you 18 see students in higher education that are required to do 19 internships as a part of their degree plan or curriculum. 20 This young lady is not, and she's doing it because she wants 21 to absorb information, become informed, see how the processes 22 work and how these things are done on a day-to-day basis. 23 And my only concern is that we're not giving her -- giving 24 her enough information to work from and keeping her busy 25 enough, because these young minds are really active, and 3-28-11 42 1 they're really good at absorbing. So, those young people are 2 really doing us a fine job, too. 3 MS. HARGIS: I do -- excuse me. I have been -- you 4 know, I've had two or three interns. I do have another one 5 from Schreiner who is a senior, an accounting major that 6 wants to work this summer for me, and I was going to put that 7 on the agenda for next time. He's a senior. He has come in 8 and applied. The head of the department over there, the 9 accounting professor gives us a few names, and we interview 10 them, and we -- we've done really well. They do help, 11 especially with a lot of the paperwork during budget time, 12 for us to -- in the summertime, to move things along a little 13 better. So, we've got one too. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 16 second. Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 22 any late bills? 23 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we do not. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No late bills? Monthly reports? 25 I've been presented with monthly reports from Justice of the 3-28-11 43 1 Peace, Precinct 3; County Clerk, amended report; Justice of 2 the Peace, Precinct 4; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; 3 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; and Kerr County Payroll for 4 February 2011. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 5 approved as presented? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the reports as presented. Question or 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, 1.16 is not a timed item, and 17 does not require executive session. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go, then, to Item 16; 19 to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on the city 20 interlocal cooperative workshop and M.O.U. from City-County 21 Benefits Services for the exploratory phase. Ms. Hyde? 22 MS. HYDE: Good morning. Y'all should still have 23 copies of the information that I brought back to 24 Commissioners Court, the big group information about what we 25 were doing and why. We have received a memo of 3-28-11 44 1 understanding, as well as an understanding that we will pay 2 $1,500, which is a little bit different than what we 3 understood to start with. This M.O.U. that was also part of 4 your back -- back pages states that we will pay a 1,500 lump 5 sum retainer fee, and that's how it's put in here. I think 6 that the Court needs to understand that based upon the 7 meeting that Wednesday, the City of Kerrville, KPUB, the City 8 of Bandera, and the City of Junction were the only other 9 people that attended besides Kerr County. So, when we're 10 looking at the cooperative agreement, when you look at our 11 history with our insurance, when we look at a cooperative 12 agreement, it has been suggested that we probably would not 13 fit into the risk management pool. So -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Demographics are materially 15 different -- 16 MS. HYDE: The demographics are very different. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from all those other employers. 18 MS. HYDE: Right. So, I just wanted to make sure 19 what you guys want to do. What would you like to do? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, we -- we've earlier had 21 these discussions, and the discussions were primarily with -- 22 with the City of Kerrville, just those two organizations, us 23 and them, and -- and involved with our various consultants 24 and -- and the H.R. representatives from each body, you 25 and -- and the city of Kerrville. 3-28-11 45 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And we've come to that same 3 conclusion for at least two, maybe three years? 4 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Three years now? 6 MS. HYDE: We've been trying for three years. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And that analysis has been -- has 8 been made without any cost on prior occasions, correct? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And I'm sure, as you all are 10 well aware, this would be an unbudgeted -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 12 MS. HYDE: -- request. And Ms. Hargis has told me 13 that the contingency fund keeps... (Pointed down.) So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't -- I mean, based on 15 your analysis that the likelihood of us joining this risk 16 pool is not real high, and the fact that -- I mean, at this 17 point, I'd say no, bottom line. And the reason is that, you 18 know, we need to -- in two weeks we're having a meeting -- 19 sometime before long, we're having a meeting about budget and 20 health care and some of that. 21 MS. HYDE: Next week. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next week? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not before long. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Next Monday. 3-28-11 46 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Next Monday. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At 9 o'clock. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to kind of have 4 that first, before we go anywhere -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- with insurance. So, I've no 7 interest in doing it at this time. Maybe after that meeting, 8 but at this time, no. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I concur with that. 10 MS. HYDE: So we're not going to do anything more? 11 Are y'all going to say no, we're not going to be 12 participating in the exploratory phase, and the Judge can 13 sign it and I can send it back to the City? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would probably say sign it; 15 we're not going to do it. Send it back to the City. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be my feeling as 17 well. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'll make such a motion. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I'll second it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 22 decline to participate in the exploratory phase in the M.O.U. 23 as presented. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And my comment is, I'm not real 25 inclined to spend taxpayer money just to -- for them to do a 3-28-11 47 1 study to see if they -- if we may enter into something. 2 That's generally the type of thing that should be done at no 3 cost, to me. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Especially when it doesn't 6 look very promising. It's not going to be of any benefit. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, we had the same -- the same 9 participant in years past, according to my best 10 understanding, that was assisting in that analysis, that 11 we've got this time, except the consultant for the City -- I 12 assume that's their consultant, Mr. Treacy out of -- 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- out of Houston. He wants to be 15 paid this time. Where we had an unsuccessful effort made in 16 prior years, and he did the same -- presumably, essentially 17 the same work. 18 MS. HYDE: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that maybe this 20 involves more about the city of Bandera and the city of 21 Junction. That -- that's what's new in the equation. Okay. 22 Any other question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 23 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3-28-11 48 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, let's 3 take a look here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could go to Buzzie's. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, when -- or Ms. Pieper, 6 when were the bids required to be submitted by for the Road 7 and Bridge products? We don't have a deadline of 10:00 this 8 morning, for example? 9 MS. PIEPER: I don't know that I've seen that ad. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you understand my question? 11 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a deadline for actually 13 having the bid in-hand, here before us. Do you know when 14 that was, Leonard? 15 MS. HOFFER: Should have been Friday at 5 o'clock, 16 I believe. 17 MR. ODOM: That was the way we posted it. 18 MS. PIEPER: There's normally a copy of it in my 19 office. I can go look and see. 20 MS. HOFFER: It might be in the backup data. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It doesn't show on the agenda 22 item, but -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 10:45. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, it's 10:45? What the 25 heck? It's not on this. Okay. Well, it's on here, but it's 3-28-11 49 1 not on the request. 2 MS. HOFFER: It says Thursday, the 24th, the bids 3 were due. On the calendar in the backup. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thursday, the 24th. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They were due? Okay. Let's go 6 ahead and go with Item 11, then. It's a timed item, but the 7 bids were required to be submitted last Thursday. To 8 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to open, read, and 9 award the annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, 10 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. John's got his 11 knife sharpened. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like it'll cut this 13 morning. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The first bid is from Vulcan 15 Construction Materials, L.P. The bid -- they've submitted a 16 bid on trap rock and hot mix, it looks like. Next bid is 17 from Allen Keller Company on base material -- road base 18 material only. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was from who? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Allen Keller. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Allen Keller. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Next bid is from Wheatcraft, Inc., 23 base material only. Next bid is from Wilson Culverts, Inc. 24 on corrugated metal pipe. Next bid is from Ergon Asphalt and 25 Emulsion, Inc., emulsion oils. Next bid is Martin Marietta 3-28-11 50 1 Materials, hot mix. Next bid, Martin Materials -- Martin 2 Marietta Materials on trap rock. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last one. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Next bid from Contech Construction 5 Products, Inc., on corrugated metal pipe. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I move we accept all 7 bids and refer them to Road and Bridge for recommendation. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 11 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 MS. HOFFER: Judge, can we review these and then 17 come back into -- our agenda item is worded that way; come 18 back and award. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think she needs long. 20 MS. HOFFER: No. Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now we're at 10 o'clock. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Let's go now to Item 12; 23 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on presentation 24 from Betty Collier, Grantworks representative, on making a 25 grant request to complete the final phase of the Kerrville 3-28-11 51 1 South wastewater sewer project. Grant request, if approved 2 from Texas Department of Rural Affairs, would be Phase 5 of 3 the Kerrville South water/sewer project in the sum of 4 $500,000. Request to Commissioners Court is to authorize 5 Grantworks to proceed with necessary action to prepare and 6 submit the 2011-12 Texas Community Development Block Grant 7 Colonia Fund application, including holding a public hearing 8 at 5 p.m. on a designated date, estimated to be mid-April, to 9 inform the public and request any comments. Other 10 application steps would follow that public hearing. 11 Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. Judge and 13 Commissioners, I've asked Betty Collier from Grantworks, our 14 representative here, to come and speak today on behalf of 15 this application request that we can look at completing Phase 16 5 of the Kerrville South water -- water/sewer project. I 17 asked Ms. Collier to come here today and kind of tell us 18 about that timeline that's coming up, but also give us a 19 little past history. I know that many folks know here about 20 that project. I would like to say, again, as far as former 21 Commissioner Bill Williams, of course, was a -- a strong 22 supporter of this project and moving forward and helping the 23 first four phases of this project get funded and getting 24 complete. I know Buster was involved in that with Bill. 25 But, again, it's -- this final phase of this project is being 3-28-11 52 1 an opportunity to complete this water/sewer project is really 2 a critical deal. Ms. Collier, if you would go ahead with 3 your presentation this morning? 4 MS. COLLIER: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. 5 Glad to be back in court. I haven't been here in a while. 6 It's good to see all of you. Commissioner Overby asked me to 7 kind of give you a brief background on this before we go into 8 the next one. In the last 10 years, y'all have been very 9 successful at being funded. We've gotten $2 million, and 10 it's been spent in the Kerrville South area tying into the 11 existing line that went there, and phase by phase, adding 12 George Muck Street, Shannon Street, Loyal Valley, Green 13 Meadow, Wood Drive, and some other little, bitty streets I 14 can't read the names of. And then U.G.R.A. has put in 15 195,000 to -- as the match along the way with these projects. 16 This has been very successful. We've hooked up -- it's going 17 to be right around 170 houses, which we're fixing between 18 450, 500 people. So, you -- we, you know, should be cleaning 19 up the area very nicely out there over the years. And 20 Commissioner Williams was a wonderful sidekick on this 21 project. We've -- he -- we really miss him. Not that we 22 don't like you. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, he was well deserved of 24 those honors. He did a great job. 25 MS. COLLIER: Yeah. He was really very 3-28-11 53 1 instrumental in getting this all done and working with the -- 2 the people out there, as well as the contractors, with us, 3 and with the Court to get everything done. This next phase, 4 as Commissioner Overby stated, would get real close to 5 finishing up out there. It will be extending a line -- right 6 now, projected to extend a line along Quail Valley, finishing 7 up one. There is also the Park Hill Apartments that are out 8 in that area that are on a big septic tank in that area out 9 there, and we'd get that hooked up and add a couple of lift 10 stations. And all this is according to what our engineer -- 11 your engineer comes up with in getting everything lined out. 12 This is, like the Commissioner said, a $500,000 grant, with 13 $25,000 match required, which can be -- well, historically 14 has needed to be cash, or it can be some in-kind services 15 also. This time, because U.G.R.A. has sold their system to 16 the City of Kerrville, we're going to have to ask the County 17 for that match this year, but some of that can be some road 18 work, if necessary. But, like I said, historically, the -- 19 we've needed it, for the project to be completed, to be cash, 20 because of the -- the ground and everything y'all have, and 21 the mitigating other septic tanks and all. It has always 22 taken all of the funds that have been available. 23 The process right now to start this final phase, 24 the number one thing is we need to set a date for a public 25 hearing, which is required by the State, to allow citizen 3-28-11 54 1 participation, to give their ideas and options on projects 2 that may or might not be able to be funded by the County and 3 by the State. Then we would come back to Commissioners Court 4 with the final project, and hopefully by that time, we'll 5 have a budget so we could see what it's going to take to 6 finish this up, and then submit the application on June 3rd. 7 Pending the last -- the one that's under construction right 8 now being completed, they're projecting to be complete by the 9 1st of May. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Correct. 11 MS. COLLIER: And I don't think there's going to be 12 any problem with that. God forbid. Well, I don't know. 13 Rain might help; might make the ground softer. Anyway, 14 barring something that would drastically slow it down, it 15 should be done easily by the deadline of the next application 16 round. But we need to set the public hearing date so that we 17 can get that part done. We can't do anything else until 18 that's done. Everything has to be dated after that. So, at 19 your pleasure, we'll be back and do a public hearing for you. 20 It can be -- must be after 5:00. It can be on Saturday or 21 Sunday, as far as that goes. And we are willing to come and 22 take care of that whenever you are ready to set that day. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You say it must be after 5:00? 24 MS. COLLIER: Yes, at 5:00 or after. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, you answered my question. 3-28-11 55 1 MS. COLLIER: Some of our consultants start at 2 5:05, but we just set it at 5 o'clock; it's after 5:00 when 3 you start. So -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I can recall Commissioner Williams, 5 in times past, setting these hearings, and as I recall, we 6 traditionally have them beginning, I think, around 5:30 to 7 give working folks who live in the area an opportunity to be 8 here. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At what point -- in those 10 steps that you just outlined, at what point does this Court 11 make a commitment? 12 MS. COLLIER: When you do the resolution. At 13 the -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. When is that? 15 MS. COLLIER: Before June 3rd, is all it has to be. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before the budget. So we 17 just agree to do something without knowing what it's going to 18 cost? 19 MS. COLLIER: We got to have the budget ready. Oh, 20 you mean your budget? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MS. COLLIER: Oh. Yeah, it would be -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Our commitment, whether 24 we're going to do it in cash or in-kind. 25 MS. COLLIER: Part of that's going to be on the 3-28-11 56 1 recommendation of the engineer on what it's going to take to 2 get that. Your commitment can be cash and in-kind on the 3 resolution, so that we can work that way with either one, 4 whichever it comes out. If you've got -- you know, if you've 5 got three -- say you've got 20,000 you figure you can do in 6 cash, and you may want to do 5,000 in some road work or 7 something like that. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Or inspections or something 9 like that. 10 MS. COLLIER: Inspections on some of the septic 11 tanks. Y'all have never used that person's time, or that 12 fee, if y'all have a fee -- a set fee for an inspection or a 13 mitigation of a septic tank. We can use that time and -- to 14 use that as part of your match also, and that would be 15 considered, obviously, in-kind. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And when we're 17 talking about -- for the public's knowledge here, when we 18 talk about we have serviced around 170 homes out there so 19 far, that's taking 170 homes off of septic tanks. 20 MS. COLLIER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And putting them on the 22 city -- 23 MS. COLLIER: If they had septic tanks. Some of 24 them may have been cesspools. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 3-28-11 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Putting them on the city 2 system. 3 MS. COLLIER: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is a huge, huge, huge 5 deal. 6 MS. COLLIER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember when we first 8 started -- started this thing, it just -- it was 9 mind-boggling to me to think that we were going to be able to 10 accomplish something like that, and we've accomplished it. 11 Now, the -- the project is still going on out there right 12 now, the mobile home park, which is in my precinct. It 13 appears to me that just about all they have left is fixing 14 the roads. I mean, they've done the hookups and, I mean, 15 it's ready to rock and roll. 16 MS. COLLIER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent work. 18 MS. COLLIER: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I want to follow 20 up on what -- you're going into the history a little bit; 21 I'll even go a little bit further. That one of the reasons 22 this whole project got started was that Camp Meeting Creek 23 was identified as one of the most polluted bodies in the 24 state. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3-28-11 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was polluted because of 2 the septic situation, primarily, in the area that we've been 3 doing all these grants on. And it was identified by, I 4 think, EPA. And since then, that water quality in that creek 5 has dramatically gone positive and is no longer on those 6 watch lists, with efforts of U.G.R.A., doing some other 7 things they've done, and certainly this project. So, I mean, 8 this has been a huge environmental plus for the whole -- 9 MS. COLLIER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- county and the river, 11 because it fixed a very bad problem that, you know, was -- 12 really hurt the environment, hurt the river. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Thank you very much 14 for that. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 16 MS. COLLIER: Sure. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me weigh in on this. 18 I think your concern is, obviously, any match is going to 19 have budgetary considerations for the Court, and that's 20 something we got to be mindful of. The -- the commitment to 21 provide the match, either in cash and/or in kind, does not 22 have to be made until June, I believe, when the formal 23 application goes forward along with the resolution. The 24 other thing is, we're not certain we're going to get the 25 award. 3-28-11 59 1 MS. COLLIER: True. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But it'll be subject to the award. 3 So, we got -- we've got some time, number one. And number 4 two, even if -- even if we find the funding, and/or make the 5 decision to allocate the necessary funding, either in-kind or 6 in cash -- 7 MS. COLLIER: You know, with federal budget cuts, 8 we don't know -- we don't know what's going to happen. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But I can tell you that on these 10 Community Development Block Grant issues, particularly those 11 in the low-income aspect that are dealt with, there is an 12 absolute priority given to water and wastewater issues, such 13 as we're dealing with here. This is -- these are the 14 priorities we've established in the regional review committee 15 down at AACOG that I chair down there, and that has 16 historically been, and continues to be the highest scored 17 projects in terms of priority. So -- but there's going to be 18 a bunch of others with those same type projects. Ms. Collier 19 knows that; she's there every year, and she fights for her 20 spot and for her -- for her clients. And -- but it occurs to 21 me that this is all part of that Camp Meeting Creek issue. 22 It'll tie into that same Loyal Valley line that -- that has 23 been so successful in keeping the pollution down in Camp 24 Meeting Creek. So -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not going to have a 3-28-11 60 1 problem getting that hooked in, are we, in the city of 2 Kerrville, letting it hook up and flow? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Gosh, I hope not. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need any action on this 5 today? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 7 MS. COLLIER: Just set a public hearing date. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ms. Collier, again, thank 10 you. I would like, then, to make a motion, then, to 11 authorize Grantworks to proceed with the necessary action to 12 prepare and submit a 2011-12 Texas C.D.B.G. Colonia Fund 13 application, including holding a public hearing at 5 p.m. on 14 a designated date, estimated sometime in April, to inform the 15 public and request any comments. And, again, we understand 16 that there would be other application steps that would 17 follow. And this is part of the Phase 5 from the T.D.R.A. 18 Kerrville South water/sewer project in the sum of $500,000. 19 Motion made. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 22 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just sometime in April? 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Hopefully submitted mid-April 25 in our timeline. Is that correct? That's what we could do. 3-28-11 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you not want to give a 2 specific date to have a public hearing? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We could set the date. 4 MS. COLLIER: We could set a date and then let 5 y'all -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You have to let the newspaper 7 know and everything. Let's set that. 8 MS. COLLIER: Okay, let's. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 MS. COLLIER: All right, we'll do that. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 18 Ms. Collier. 19 MS. COLLIER: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here. We 21 have a 10:15 timed item, and we are right on the money with 22 that. Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 23 action on a petition against the replacement of Arrowhead 24 Bridge. For those that were not here at our last meeting, it 25 was initially placed on the meeting last time. The petition 3-28-11 62 1 was actually part of the backup material that the Court had. 2 Because of the request from one of the petitioners that the 3 matter be reset till today, because there was at least one 4 property owner out that wished to be heard, I believe Mr. and 5 Ms. Nelson, we did receive their comments at that time. But 6 then, also, the matter was reset for today. The matter was 7 placed on the agenda at the request of Dr. Killian. Is 8 Dr. Killian present? 9 DR. KILLIAN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward and present whatever 11 you have, Dr. Killian. 12 MR. DEELY: May it please the Court, Mr. Killian's 13 asked me to speak on his behalf. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If you'll come forward, 15 identify yourself and give us your address. 16 MR. DEELY: My name is Patrick Deely. My address 17 is 2066 Highway 39, Hunt, Texas, 78024. I'm here to speak on 18 behalf of Mr. and Mrs. Killian, and also Mr. McCubbin and 19 myself and two other landowners in the vicinity of the 20 Arrowhead Bridge off of Highway 39. Our primary objection to 21 replacement of the existing concrete bridge is the fact that 22 it's a waste of money. Texas has a $15 billion to $27 23 billion shortfall. An editorial in the San Antonio Express 24 News from March 20th spoke to this issue, and spoke 25 specifically to the fact that with this shortfall, we are 3-28-11 63 1 going to see more underfunding of chronically underfunded 2 road and bridge maintenance in the state of Texas. Money 3 that should be spent, if at all, should be spent on bridges 4 that have a more troubled history or more need to be 5 replaced, such as the Hunt Bridge on Highway 39 at Hunt. 6 This is a narrow bridge; it's very easy to go off of it. 7 There have been accidents there and injury to people. 8 The Rio/Sierra Vista Bridge that goes to the camps, 9 that connects with Cade Loop Road, it's underwater, and at 10 night you can't see where the -- really, where the bridge is. 11 The River Road crossing on F.M. 1340 just north of Hunt, this 12 bridge is another low-water bridge; connects with Canyon 13 Springs and ultimately Highway 39. The Waltonia Crossing is 14 another highly used bridge; connects with Baldwin Road and 15 Cuthbert Lane and back to Highway 39. The Arrowhead Bridge 16 only serves three property owners. The proposed higher 17 bridge with rails at that location is going to end up costing 18 the county more money in maintenance, because it's going to 19 gather all kinds of debris every time it floods. 20 Commissioner Oehler has noted to others, as reported to me, 21 that this new bridge will only cost a small fraction of the 22 total cost in direct county funds, because we're using 23 federal funds for the balance of the project. But I think 24 what that observation doesn't see is the fact that it's all 25 taxpayer money that's being used. It's our funds locally; 3-28-11 64 1 it's our funds as citizens of the country. 2 Spending almost a half million dollars replacing 3 this bridge is a gross waste of taxpayer money. We ask, why 4 replace the bridge? TexDOT's Mark Coward has represented 5 that the existing bridge is structurally sound, and history 6 has proven this to be true. In almost 75 years of the 7 bridge's existence, there really is only one problem, and 8 that problem is when the largest buses are coming from the 9 Y Camp and they make a right turn -- they're going west and 10 making a right turn going north over the bridge, some of the 11 drivers don't allow enough room to turn, and their rear wheel 12 gets hung up on the bridge and they stop. I've even spoken 13 to one of the bus drivers when he got stuck there on one 14 occasion. The solution to that problem, which we believe is 15 already going in place, is to create a wider turning circle 16 on the south end of the bridge. We understand that the 17 appropriate landowner has agreed to give more land for that 18 purpose. Trees have been cut. Survey stakes are out. To 19 our observation, it looks like they're preparing to do that. 20 In December of last year, 2010, a report was 21 published called the Programmatic Categorical Exclusion, Camp 22 YMCA Arrowhead -- Arrowhead Report. It has Mark Coward's 23 name on it. I'm not sure who prepared it. This report is 24 biased and based on fundamentally false information. The 25 first misrepresentation, and it's a gross one, is that there 3-28-11 65 1 are 160 average vehicles per day going over that bridge. If 2 there are 16 average vehicles per day going over that bridge, 3 I'd be shocked. It's just not true. The second 4 misrepresentation out there, the report is it tries to 5 present the -- the users of the bridge as two camps, and in 6 one place they refer to the Y camp as having the east branch 7 and the west branch, or it's the Arrowhead Camp and the 8 Y Camp, but the truth is that the Arrowhead Camp has not been 9 in operation for some time, and in March of last year that 10 property changed hands. We understand that the property -- 11 they live -- the new property owners live in Virginia. They 12 plan to build a house there, and they're in the process of 13 tearing down the cabins. We don't -- we're not aware of any 14 plans to resurrect Camp Arrowhead as a camp. 15 The third misrepresentation out there, the report 16 is it assumes that there's a 40-foot right-of-way. There is 17 no 40-foot right-of-way. The last point I'd like to make 18 that the report reveals is that there are jurisdictional 19 wetlands that will be temporarily and permanently affected by 20 the bridge. This is of great concern to landowner Curtis 21 McCubbin, whose certified organic pecan orchard draws water 22 from a T.C.E.Q. certified and merited well. It's a seep well 23 near the river and near the bridge that we're talking about. 24 And I would add that Mr. McCubbin has been excluded from 25 earlier meetings where strategy as to how to get the bridge 3-28-11 66 1 located there were discussed. 2 I want to go back in time just for a minute to the 3 road order of February 19, 1929, in the minutes of this 4 court. It purports to describe a 30-foot-wide third-class 5 road. At that time, the governing statute authorized the 6 creation of third-class roads. Article 67.06 specified all 7 roads ordered to be made shall be laid out by a jury of 8 freeholders to survey and describe such road to the greatest 9 advantage to the public, and so that the same can be traced 10 with certainty. The description of the so-called Leakey to 11 Y Camp right-of-way in the road order does not meet those 12 requirements, and is therefore fundamentally flawed. I would 13 refer the Court to a 2008 case from the Amarillo Court of 14 Civil Appeals titled Allen vs. Allen, where they went to some 15 length to describe the statute, the history, -- it's about 16 the same time -- and the fact in that case, that the 17 description, as here, did not meet the requirements. The -- 18 another court of appeals in which a county was enjoined from 19 continuing a road because it failed to, quote, definitely fix 20 the termination of the road, end quote, and did not contain, 21 quote, field notes, end quote. 22 One Justice emphasized the balancing act that 23 should take place when establishing jury-of-view roads. The 24 road sought -- and I'm quoting again from his opinion. The 25 road sought to be established must be shown to be a public 3-28-11 67 1 necessity. And the law quite naturally vests in the county 2 commissioners court certain discretion in establishing an 3 opening of a public road, but this discretion must be 4 exercised reasonably. The needs of the public must be 5 considered alongside of the rights of the landowners who are 6 to be affected by the opening of the road. Neither can be 7 ignored and justice be meted out. 8 I'd like note also that in the 2009 Legislature, 9 our Legislature repealed the statute permitting county 10 commissioners to establish roads with a jury of view, and for 11 good reason. As stated in the bill analysis, the process, 12 quote, is an abuse of due process, and is an antiquated, 13 anomalous, and archaic procedure left over from the 1880's, 14 end quote. My point is that in the beginning, the use of 15 this power can be abused. In this case, they did not 16 adequately describe the road. We don't know where the 17 30-foot right-of-way exists, because it's not described. 18 It's a -- there are other needs, other bridges in Kerr County 19 that are in dire need of improvement, way beyond the 20 Arrowhead Bridge. So, there are no good reasons to replace 21 the so-called Arrowhead Bridge. The TexDOT report supporting 22 replacement of the bridge is based on gross 23 misrepresentations. There's no way to properly identify 24 where the 30-foot right-of-way begins with. More than 30 25 feet are required to replace a bridge, and the property 3-28-11 68 1 owners on the north side of the river are not willing to 2 grant easements, temporary or otherwise, to permit that. 3 This is local wasteful pork barrel spending at its worst. 4 Some might argue that it's too late, but it's never too late 5 to do the right thing. We respectfully request that the 6 bridge that's served us well for 75 years be left alone, and 7 money spent on a more worthy cause for public good. Thank 8 you. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question, if I might. 10 Are you saying that there's not a county road? I mean -- 11 MR. DEELY: I'm saying that it's not, because it 12 was never described properly. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you're saying it's not a 14 county road. 15 MR. DEELY: Correct. Now, there may be other ways 16 to prove that it's a county road. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, but you're -- I 18 mean, either it is or it isn't. You're saying it -- 19 MR. DEELY: At this point, it's not. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it's not a county road, in 21 your opinion. Okay. Another question -- just a comment 22 generally. We've replaced, since I've been a commissioner, 23 quite a few bridges in this county, and on some occasions 24 people have made comments that the bridges were in good 25 shape. And they were all -- most of the bridges we're 3-28-11 69 1 talking about county-wide were built from 1920 to 1935. 2 That's the period a lot of the bridges were built. It's not 3 in my precinct; I'm not an expert on the Arrowhead Bridge, 4 but I do know that there are two bridges, or maybe three -- I 5 guess three bridges in my precinct that have been replaced in 6 the last 20 years. Everyone said they were fine, and when it 7 actually came, one of them collapsed during a flood. Hermann 8 Sons Bridge finally had to be replaced, even though it was -- 9 it was on the list to replace. And it got moved up quickly 10 at that point when it collapsed. 11 Lane Valley bridge was the same situation, and when 12 they went to bump it, literally, it collapsed when they went 13 to replace it. And over on the other bridge that's going to 14 be replaced soon on Lazy Valley, about the same situation. 15 So, I really question -- the materials used during that era 16 were not very good. And these bridges, my experience has 17 been when they're put on -- or on TexDOT's list, they need to 18 be replaced. They're structurally -- you know, they're -- 19 they just needed to be replaced; leave it at that. It's just 20 my opinion overall on these bridges. But I think it's an 21 interesting point that you don't think it's a county road. 22 MR. DEELY: I think my point is that there are 23 other bridges that we could better spend money on that are 24 really in need of being replaced. The Rio Vista bridge is 25 one, and it's under water. 3-28-11 70 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rio Vista has another way in 2 and out through Cade Loop. 3 MR. DEELY: Right, it's a connecting road. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a through road; it's not 5 a dead-end road. It's not one way in one way out. And most 6 of the residents, even the owners of Camp Rio Vista and 7 Sierra Vista, go out Cade Loop to keep from going across the 8 sick bridge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Deely -- I'm sorry. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go ahead. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Deely, 2066 Highway 39 is -- is 12 that your primary residence? 13 MR. DEELY: Well, I like to tell people that that's 14 where I live. But I work in San Antonio, so -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. DEELY: -- it's a -- what I'd call a weekend 17 retreat. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your homestead is in San 19 Antonio? 20 MR. DEELY: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do you utilize that bridge to 22 gain access to your property at 2066 Highway 39? 23 MR. DEELY: No. We -- we use the bridge to walk 24 the road, walk our dog. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3-28-11 71 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it's not a county road, 2 it's not public. Excuse me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I was interested in your response 4 that -- that it's not a county road, but there are other 5 bridges that -- that need more attention in Kerr County than 6 that bridge. I don't see that that's a counter-argument. 7 That seems to me like apples and oranges. Would that not be 8 correct? 9 MR. DEELY: Well, if I may, sir, the point that I'm 10 trying to emphasize is that we're talking about a half 11 million dollars, and I don't think that bridge is -- in the 12 hierarchy of needs, that that bridge is close to the top. 13 And that it's -- there's nothing in the report that 14 Mr. Coward produced, or the December 2010 report, that 15 specifically addresses the integrity of the bridge. They 16 describe it as obsolete, which I'm sure you wouldn't build 17 that bridge today, but there's nothing in there, just as 18 there's nothing in there about the impact on Mr. McCubbin's 19 seep well from the construction. There are a lot of -- a lot 20 of these fundamental issues that are not addressed in the 21 report. And let me just add one footnote, because -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But the issue of whether or not the 23 money would be better spent elsewhere has no bearing on the 24 issue of whether it is or is not a county-owned or maintained 25 bridge or roadway. 3-28-11 72 1 MR. DEELY: Well -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Wouldn't you agree? 3 MR. DEELY: I think it's -- I think it's important 4 to spend the money where it's most needed for the most public 5 good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That wasn't my question to you, sir. 7 MR. DEELY: Okay. I'm not -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you need me to repeat it? 9 MR. DEELY: Please. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Wouldn't you agree that the issue of 11 whether or not the money would be better spent at some other 12 place, Kerr County or Alaska, as the case may be, that has no 13 bearing on whether or not the area that we're speaking of is 14 or is not a legal county road? 15 MR. DEELY: Where the money is spent is at the 16 Court's discretion, for the benefit of the county roads. 17 What -- my point is, is that the 1929 order creating the 18 third-class 30-foot-wide road, I think, is fatally defective. 19 There are other ways to prove it's a county road; an easement 20 by prescription, an easement by necessity. There are ways to 21 do that, but they haven't been done yet. And by agreement. 22 There could be agreement among the landowners to grant an 23 easement for county road purposes. So, my point was simply 24 going back to the originating order of this Court that 25 created the road. 3-28-11 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But that legal issue has nothing to 2 do with whether or not the money would be better spent 3 somewhere else. 4 MR. DEELY: I think the problem is -- is that we 5 don't know where the road is precisely; that the original 6 order was defective when it created the road, and that those 7 are fundamental problems as to whether county money -- 8 taxpayer money should be spent on that road till we clarify 9 that issue, whether it's by agreement or otherwise. We can't 10 go back. You can't go survey it today and tack that onto the 11 1929 order and say, "There, we've fixed our road." You can't 12 use the jury of view process any more, because the 13 Legislature's taken that authority away from you. But we can 14 do it by agreement. We can do it through the Court, through 15 an easement by prescription or otherwise. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my direct question to you, 17 you're not going to answer. Is that the bottom line? 18 MR. DEELY: My answer -- I'm answering as best I 19 can. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's not adequate. I 21 apologize for wasting all of our time for trying to get 22 there. You had mentioned Mr. Coward's report. Were you here 23 at the meeting which was held -- 24 MR. DEELY: Two weeks -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- earlier? Yes, two weeks ago. 3-28-11 74 1 MR. DEELY: No, sir, I was not able to attend. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I would note one item -- did you 3 write the backup material of the petition? 4 MR. DEELY: No, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. There was a comment in that 6 material that indicated that transportation engineer Mark 7 Coward -- I assume that's one and the same as Mike Coward 8 that's here to your left today -- told all parties that "the 9 existing bridge has been state certified for structural 10 engineering and load bearing and is structurally sound." He 11 added it is -- quote, "It is stronger than a bridge TexDOT 12 could build today because river rock was used in making its 13 concrete." 14 MR. DEELY: Well, I did not -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Coward, when he was here two 16 weeks ago, said the exact opposite of that is true. 17 DR. KILLIAN: Excuse me, I'd like to comment. I 18 was at that meeting and I heard him say that. And I 19 believe -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you'll get your opportunity, 21 sir. 22 DR. KILLIAN: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you aware of -- of that comment 24 in the petition? 25 MR. DEELY: Yes, sir. 3-28-11 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. DEELY: And I read the comments in the 3 newspaper report. I did read Mr. Coward's comments before 4 the Court, and I've heard Mr. Killian and, I believe, 5 Mr. Duke, who have reported the conversation as stated in the 6 petition. So, we have a -- a difference of recollections as 7 to what was said. My point earlier was that the report, it 8 didn't test -- there's no testing of the bridge. There's 9 nothing -- no science in the report as to the integrity of 10 the bridge today. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think on that point, though, 12 there may be a question as to the recollection of what was 13 said at the meeting, but there's no question as to what 14 Mr. Coward said two weeks ago, and that is that the river 15 gravel is not proper material to build bridges. 16 MR. DEELY: I'm not in a position -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. I'm just saying you 18 just made -- that there was a question, and there is no 19 question. The question was stated by our TexDOT engineer at 20 the last meeting, but -- so, I mean, whatever was said a long 21 time ago is irrelevant. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The engineering issue should be left 23 to the engineers; wouldn't you agree? 24 MR. DEELY: I started out in engineering and I 25 changed my major, so I'm not one to debate engineering 3-28-11 76 1 topics. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 3 MR. DEELY: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- I just have one more 5 comment probably here, or another item, and it's just the -- 6 you made the comment that -- or I guess, kind of -- I guess 7 three people or three families or three properties are served 8 by the bridge. One of the properties is a camp. And, you 9 know, as a commissioner, I look at that as a pretty important 10 item because of camps, which tend to have children and buses, 11 and I'm from a precinct that had a disaster with a camp bus 12 and a low-water bridge, where I think 13 young children were 13 killed. And if this is -- you know, and this is the same 14 scenario waiting to happen, in my opinion, as what happened 15 in Comfort. And that moves this bridge to an extremely high 16 priority from my standpoint, because I hope that this county 17 never goes through that tragedy again. 18 MR. DEELY: I respect your position. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Deely? 21 Thank you, sir. 22 MR. DEELY: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got some participation forms 24 that have been filed. Mr. Bill Hinton. 25 MR. HINTON: Thank you. My name is Bill Hinton; 3-28-11 77 1 I'm the Executive Director of Y.M.C.A. Camp Flaming Arrow. I 2 am here in support of the -- of the -- of the bridge. I just 3 wanted to give you guys some numbers that I hope will help 4 you to -- to make a decision here. By my count, there are 5 seven families that live on the -- on the other side of the 6 bridge on the other side of Highway 39, that live there 7 full-time. That's 16 individuals that use it on a daily 8 basis. Y.M.C.A. Camp Flaming Arrow serves -- last summer, we 9 served 835 campers during the summer, and we served a little 10 over 2,000 in the spring, winter, and -- and fall season on 11 retreats. Again, like we stated earlier, the -- the bus 12 issue is the largest of the issues, and we have worked -- we 13 work hard with our bus drivers so that they don't make that 14 -- that turn coming from our side. Currently, right now we 15 are lucky that the -- that the landowner of the Arrowhead 16 Ranch allows us to go and turn around that bus in their front 17 yard, basically, so that they can get -- they can get out 18 with a straight shot. I think that for the safety of our 19 families that come -- families and children that come during 20 the summer and during our weekends, and then those that live 21 there full-time, a raise and widening of that bridge would be 22 beneficial for the safety of -- of our families that live 23 there full-time and the families that are coming to visit our 24 -- our county. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 3-28-11 78 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sandra Schmidt? 3 MS. SCHMIDT: I don't know that I can add a whole 4 lot to this other than what Bill has said, but the -- my 5 primary -- and I've crossed that bridge since 1962. I know I 6 don't look like I've been here that long, but -- (Laughter.) 7 And I have lived across the river since '75 permanently, so I 8 have seen numerous accidents on that bridge, and only by the 9 grace of God it has not happened, that one didn't turn all 10 the way over; that the back wheels and sometimes the front 11 wheels get off. I've seen the stakes, and I'm not quite sure 12 that, still, the buses can get around that. Bill mentioned 13 that now the buses go up to Arrowhead -- the old Arrowhead 14 and turn around. When they get finished with what they're 15 doing, that road now will not be there, so they won't have 16 the ability to go back around and come out the safe way. So, 17 my concern is -- it is just the children at Camp Flaming 18 Arrow. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 20 MS. SCHMIDT: -- that's all. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thanks. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else 23 wishing to be heard on the agenda item? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think part of the 25 confusion could be whether -- is this Mark or Mike? I 3-28-11 79 1 noticed last -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I know him as Mike. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. But I know two 4 weeks ago it was Mark, and then again today it was Mark, so 5 I'm a little bit confused about it. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think one of the questions 7 on the petition had something to do with an environmental 8 impact study. I think Mike has to do all that in order to be 9 able to get a permit to build a bridge. It's not just a two- 10 or three-page document. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Well, and, gentlemen, I'd like to 12 say, just -- the one issue that's out there is that it is a 13 county road. It's been a county road since 19 -- 14 AUDIENCE: '30's. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Yeah, '30's. I've looked at it. 16 I've worked with Mr. Voelkel, the County Surveyor; we've 17 looked at it. I mean, in my opinion, that -- that's not a 18 red herring. That's not an issue, you know. The other 19 policy issues that were raised are one thing, but let's not 20 get it reported that there's a question as to whether or not 21 that's a county road. That is a county road. It's been a 22 county road three times longer than I've been alive, and I 23 just don't want to get off on that tangent. I want to advise 24 the Court of that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 3-28-11 80 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another thing was a 30-foot 3 easement was granted by an owner that owned both sides of the 4 river back in 1929, for the express purpose of building a 5 road. The road has not moved, to my -- to my knowledge. Of 6 course, I haven't been alive that long either, but I believe 7 Pat Nelson's family has been traversing that bridge since 8 '36. And the purpose of that road was to be a 9 county-maintained road, and why would they grant a 30-foot 10 easement to the County if they didn't intend to use it for 11 that purpose? We don't have many like this. Most of what we 12 have doesn't have this much documentation, of the old roads. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else wishing to be heard on 14 this agenda item? We've got the petition before us, 15 gentlemen. Any member of the Court wish to offer a motion as 16 to action? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would not. Thank you, 18 though, for the offer. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nor would I. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That being the case, why don't we 21 take about a 15-minute recess. 22 (Recess taken from 10:43 a.m. to 11:01 a.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 25 we might. We have a 10:45 item that we haven't gotten to 3-28-11 81 1 yet. Item 14; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 2 to award bank depository contract. Ms. Williams? 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. I 4 think each of you received a copy of the analysis from our 5 investment people in Austin. Analysis of Depository Service 6 Proposals, March 2001. If you'll turn to Page 7, that has 7 the recommendation on it. And if you would like, I can read 8 the whole recommendation, or I can just basically go down and 9 say that their recommendation is that the County award the 10 contract to Security State Bank. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to award 14 the bank depository contract to Security State Bank and 15 Trust. Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 21 Ms. Williams. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you, gentlemen. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 15, which is an 24 11 o'clock timed item, a presentation from Bill Amerine or 25 Mark DelToro regarding 911 changes that must be done if Kerr 3-28-11 82 1 County changes EMS contract. Which one of you -- okay, the 2 boss is going to step up. 3 MR. AMERINE: I'll do it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to have you here, Mr. Amerine. 5 MR. AMERINE: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. My 6 name is Bill Amerine; I'm the Executive Director for Kerr 7 911, and with me today is Mark DelToro, Associate Director. 8 I guess what generated this action item or agenda item was my 9 conversation with the Sheriff about possible changes that 10 would need to take place if there was a split between the 11 City and the County on EMS services. I want to preface this 12 by saying that none of this conversation was based on any 13 conversation I've had with the City that they'd change their 14 protocol, so I just want to make that clear. You know, that 15 is still in the negotiation between the County and the City, 16 and I'm not part of that. Don't want to be. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want in? 18 MR. AMERINE: No, sir. No, sir. I just -- I was 19 just -- Mark and I were sitting and brainstorming, what would 20 we need to do at 911 if there was a contractual split between 21 the EMS service and you guys had your own subcontractor doing 22 that service for you? I think it might be beneficial to talk 23 about call path routing as it occurs today, just as a basis 24 of discussion. With the agreements that are in place today, 25 all calls are answered at the Kerrville Police Department, 3-28-11 83 1 and are triaged by their call takers to determine several 2 things. Is this a medical emergency? Is this a fire? Is 3 this a law enforcement issue? And if it's a law enforcement 4 or fire issue, is it in the county? The reason why EMS is 5 not part of that final consideration is because EMS is 6 currently dispatched to the Kerrville Police -- Fire 7 Department and EMS service whether it's county or city; it 8 doesn't matter. So, they want to get that process started 9 right away, and that includes both land line, wireless, and 10 VOIP phone service. All calls are currently answered 11 initially at Kerrville Police Department. The -- yes sir? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. So, the police 13 department gets the initial call, and then it goes to fire 14 dispatch. They have a separate dispatch for fire? 15 MR. AMERINE: No. No. If it's a city fire issue, 16 then the dispatchers right there in the call center at 17 Kerrville Police Department do that dispatch for fire 18 resources. They also do the EMS. If it's a fire in the 19 county, then they transfer that call to the call center at 20 the Sheriff's Office, and the Sheriff's Department 21 dispatchers do the fire dispatch for volunteer fire 22 departments and First Responders. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Right now, there's a -- 24 we have a contract with the City to provide some fire 25 services in the county. How is that call handled right now? 3-28-11 84 1 MR. AMERINE: It would be handled in -- it's city 2 resources; they would do that dispatch. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They dispatch that, and then I 4 presume transfer it to the Sheriff's Department for dispatch? 5 MR. AMERINE: I'm guessing that is correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff is kind of like, 7 "Maybe." 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think it's kind of 9 what I said earlier. I think at this point, if it's fire, 10 the city dispatchers is getting that call originally, and if 11 it's fairly close to the city, but out in the county, you 12 know, within, like, Kerrville South or -- or within a few 13 miles, that's kind of a judgment call on that dispatcher as 14 to whether they're going to go ahead and dispatch Kerrville 15 Fire Department, and then at that point we would also 16 dispatch the volunteer fire department. Now, if it's farther 17 out in the county, the volunteer fire departments are who 18 we're going to dispatch, and if they request assistance from 19 Kerrville, then Kerrville P.D. will dispatch the Kerrville 20 Fire Department to assist them. 21 MR. AMERINE: There's several written protocols 22 that were set by KARFA back in 2003, and there's also 23 protocols or interlocals between the City and County to how 24 that process will work. And, again, 911 really doesn't get 25 into the protocols. We make sure the equipment's in place to 3-28-11 85 1 support whatever protocol is decided upon. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. AMERINE: So -- and to step back again, let's 4 talk about what equipment 911 has put in place to facilitate 5 what we currently have. We have what we call PSAP, which is 6 a fancy name, Public Service Answering Point -- Public Safety 7 Answering Point, which is currently at the Kerrville Police 8 Department. It's back-room equipment. It's servers, 9 telephone equipment that allow calls that are initiated to 10 911 to be routed directly to that equipment and then sent out 11 to the appropriate workstation. Right now, that appropriate 12 workstation definition is the three workstations and phones 13 at Kerrville Police Department. The equipment that we have 14 has the ability to do selective routing. In other words, it 15 can discern the difference between a county-originated call 16 and a city-originated call, and it can split those out and 17 send them either directly to the county call center or the 18 city call center. And I think that's the next step. 19 If contract negotiations were to result in a 20 separate EMS service for the county -- and, again, I have no 21 -- I have had no conversations with anybody in the city that 22 they would say, "Well, we're not going to dispatch any EMS 23 any more," you know. "We're not going to dispatch a 24 contracted service for the county." But if that were to 25 occur, then the county dispatchers would have to have the 3-28-11 86 1 equipment and the ability to handle the increased call 2 volume. All calls originating in the county would come 3 directly to them. That would be wireless, VOIP, and land 4 line for fire, law enforcement, and EMS. Currently, the 5 configuration is one full workstation -- fully capable 6 workstation and one extension phone so that they can handle 7 two calls, but they don't get the data for the initial call 8 if they happen to have tandem calls occur, and it's just a 9 limitation of the system. Well, that's unacceptable. If 10 we're actually taking all those calls directly, you have to 11 have the ability to display information about each of those 12 individual calls. 13 So, fortunately for us, the network infrastructure 14 that's in place is adequate to support an expansion in the 15 Sheriff's Office. We would require, to provide the -- the 16 appropriate capability for the Sheriff's Office, an 17 additional workstation. And speaking to the Sheriff, he 18 couldn't put another box of tissue in that call center; it's 19 very tight in there. So, we'd have to look at an alternative 20 location. I believe he's already spoken some about that 21 expansion that would be necessary. But we wouldn't require 22 any additional infrastructure of equipment, such as network 23 cabling or anything like that. We would have to pull some 24 Cat 5 cables, but the network that's in place would support 25 that call routing. The cost of that has already been 3-28-11 87 1 allocated; it was never spent. When we were originally 2 looking at the contract for upgrade to the 911 system for 3 2010, we allocated the funds for two full workstations for 4 the Sheriff's Office, but back when we were getting ready to 5 write the contract, and in discussions with the Sheriff, he 6 said, "We really don't have the space, the way the property 7 is currently today. We don't have the call volume need, 8 really, for two fully capable workstations." So, we didn't 9 buy the second workstation. So that's not any kind of 10 overhead for us; we already have the money in the bank and 11 can do that. 12 There are two other areas that will have some cost 13 associated with it. One of the things we did, and I can't 14 remember the exact year, the City rebuilt their call center 15 and we contributed to that process, because these are 911 16 call takers. If there was an expansion of the Sheriff's 17 Office call center and they spent money on rebuilding that 18 with modular furniture, call taker furniture, we would 19 contribute to that, to a point. I mean, within our budget. 20 It's only fair. I can't -- as a provider of the services to 21 my jurisdictions, I can't do for one that I wouldn't be 22 willing to do for the other. The other area that would 23 cost -- and this is, I think, the more critical piece, and 24 it's hard to know what kind of contract the County would sign 25 for EMS service. If you're dispatching EMS, one of the 3-28-11 88 1 things that city dispatchers have been trained and certified 2 at is paramedic assistance over the phone, where they 3 actually provide some lifesaving assistance and advice on how 4 to do CPR, how to clear airways, how to stop bleeding, what 5 to do in poison issues. I mean, they have this basic 6 training. 7 They also have a piece of hardware; it's a flip 8 chart that says, okay, if a person's not breathing, do this. 9 The product is called Priority Dispatch. There are others. 10 And I would assume that if you're going to dispatch EMS from 11 county call takers, you'd want them trained and certified in 12 that, so there would be some cost associated with that. 13 Every year, we allocate a lump sum of money to train 911 call 14 takers, and it's always been available; it's not always been 15 allocated. It just rolls over year to year. We would 16 contribute to that training as well, up to a point. So, with 17 all that being said, if you were doing your own EMS, what we 18 would envision is a program change in our PSAP, in our 19 server, so that all calls originating in the county would go 20 directly to the county dispatch center; that that county 21 dispatch center would have an additional workstation, and 22 that the dispatchers would be trained in the EMS product so 23 that they can provide appropriate assistance. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks to me like -- we've 25 been talking about central dispatch for years, and looks like 3-28-11 89 1 we should start heading in that direction again, explore how 2 that can work and get it all under one roof. We have the 3 space. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Amerine -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It just seems to me like it's 7 just kind of antiquated. This is a good example of how it 8 could happen, to even make it worse than it is today. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your bringing us the 10 scenarios that we need to be aware of, and probably 11 appreciate more your willingness up front to tell us that 12 you're willing to assist in the costs that are going to be 13 necessary in order to achieve these. The Sheriff had 14 indicated to us, I believe at our last meeting, that there 15 would -- gave us a heads-up on some of these issues, and 16 indicated that he had been in discussion with you and so 17 forth, and that's the kind of planning we need to be doing as 18 -- as contingency planning, of course. And we appreciate 19 what you guys are doing. We just wish that, as the 20 Commissioner said, this entire dispatch issue can be readily 21 solved now and forever and professionally by -- by having 22 central dispatch, and not having these turf wars to be 23 concerned about. 24 MR. AMERINE: Well, I promised myself I wouldn't 25 say anything that would even smack slightly of politics, but 3-28-11 90 1 I -- I will say -- I will say that other similarly sized 2 counties and municipalities have attempted central dispatch 3 in the past. And, as I guess all of you gentlemen so 4 painfully know, joint funding issues between various entities 5 have difficulties. And up in Smith County, they went into a 6 joint dispatch operation when I first took over 911 here in 7 Kerr County, and they have since disbanded because of the 8 inability of the various jurisdictions to come up with an 9 appropriate funding model and sharing the cost of that 10 operation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that we would 12 have a problem like that. (Laughter.) 13 MR. AMERINE: Every year prior to Commissioner 14 Williams' death, he would come visit me; it was almost like, 15 you know, going to Mecca, the migration. And he would -- 16 we'd have a philosophical discussion about the benefits of 17 the central dispatch. And as I've always told him, it makes 18 perfect sense on paper to consolidate and save. For a 19 community of our size, less than 50,000 people, we're -- 20 we're creating a lot of redundancy here having two call 21 centers. But the funding model -- and I asked this question. 22 He says, "That's not the way county government works." I 23 said, "The only way I would ever run that and be funded by 24 the county and the city is if I could have a five-year 25 funding plan, where funds are obligated for five years in 3-28-11 91 1 advance, and there would be no negotiation year-to-year, 2 other than increases in cost that would come with running 3 something like that." 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like it would be 5 a good idea for 911 to fund it. 6 MR. AMERINE: Well, if you can find a way for an 7 organization with $376,000 of funding every year to do that 8 as well, I'd be glad to figure out how to do that. I 9 think -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will take the politics 11 out of it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Amerine? 13 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks for the presentation. 15 Just a comment. We have another item related to -- well, 16 fire on the agenda, and that is going to be held in open 17 session. You might want to hang around just to listen to 18 that part. 19 MR. AMERINE: I will. Any other questions? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How is our appointed board 21 members doing? 22 MR. AMERINE: They're great, if we can just get 23 them all together at the same time. That's always a 24 challenge, to get a quorum together, with all of them still 25 being in business and everything like that. But, you know, 3-28-11 92 1 we only meet quarterly now, so we manage. But they're all 2 outstanding participants. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think our two appointments 4 over there that are multi-year, I mean, they've been there a 5 long time. 6 MR. AMERINE: Ron Vick and Hugh Jons, Jr., are both 7 outstanding. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Outstanding service to our 9 community. And -- 10 MR. AMERINE: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that they're -- one 12 of them -- at least one of them's talking about bailing out 13 on us. 14 MR. AMERINE: Oh, really? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. He's just getting 16 started. I mean, he's only been over there, what, 12, 15 17 years? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Just getting in the door. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 MR. AMERINE: Well, we appreciate the appointees 21 we've got from the county and the city. It helps us move 22 forward and step forward in a good way. So, appreciate it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's go to Item 18, if 3-28-11 93 1 we might, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 2 formally request that Dr. Curtis C. McCubbin grant the State 3 of Texas, Texas Department of Transportation, and/or Kerr 4 County a temporary construction license for the purpose of 5 construction for the improvement of Arrowhead Road, and 6 execute all necessary documents. Commissioner Oehler? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I put this on so that 8 we could formally ask the two people involved in the 9 right-of-way issue for easements. That the Court could 10 possibly formally ask them to sign to temporary easement 11 documents so we could move forward with the bridge project. 12 And I see that they've stepped out of the room. I don't know 13 if they're -- 14 MS. KILLIAN: I'm here. I'm here. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're here? 16 MS. KILLIAN: Killian. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the next agenda item. Let me 18 just go ahead and call Item 19; consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action to formally request that the Divide River 20 Ranch, L.L.C., through its authorized agent, grant the State 21 of Texas, Texas Department of Transportation, and/or Kerr 22 County a temporary construction license for the purpose of 23 construction for the improvement of Arrowhead Road, and 24 execute all necessary documents. I don't see Dr. McCubbin. 25 There's -- 3-28-11 94 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. McCubbin's right in the 2 back of the room there, right behind -- no, I'm sorry. 3 AUDIENCE: He's not here. 4 MR. DEELY: He left. I believe Mr. McCubbin left. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, okay. Well, 6 then, I guess -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can still do it, though. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. You have both agenda 10 items called, Judge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, I do. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we request and 13 ask the two people, Divide River Ranch and Dr. McCubbin, to 14 please sign the necessary documents, the easements -- 15 temporary easement for the construction of Arrowhead Bridge 16 project. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 18 second? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 21 or discussion on that motion? 22 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner Oehler, do you want 23 to -- just to clarify, we're talking about temporary. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 MR. HENNEKE: And it's only about 5 foot wide, that 3-28-11 95 1 we just need to -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. We're talking about 3 a 5-foot-wide additional temporary construction easement on 4 each property. 5 MR. HENNEKE: That goes away when the project's 6 over. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those properties are Dr. 8 McCubbin and Dr. Killian, and I have the documents here with 9 surveys prepared for their signatures, if they would -- would 10 do that for us. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 12 the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It goes away when the 14 project is completed. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Just a place to swing the hammer 16 while they do the building. But the construction project is 17 surveyed by TexDOT; 100 percent fits within the existing 18 roadway. This is just a -- like I said, a spot to stand 19 while they swing the hammer, or to have the temporary 20 crossing. It's only about, I think, a hundred and -- 130 21 square feet total. It's 5 feet wide and about, you know, 10 22 feet long. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just what's up on the bank. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Just a little strip right there. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I would really hope that 3-28-11 96 1 could happen, for all -- the best interests of the public, 2 and I believe their best interests as well. That's up for 3 debate. 4 MR. DEELY: May I make a comment? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. As long as it doesn't 6 relate to whether or not this was a wise or unwise 7 expenditure. 8 MR. DEELY: Patrick Deely. Mr. McCubbin has an 9 attorney who I understand has been in communication with 10 somebody involved in this project because of his concern for 11 his state-permitted well, and I believe that's his big 12 concern. But I don't speak for him on that matter. As far 13 as the -- Tom and Sandra Killian are concerned, no one's ever 14 approached them to discuss a temporary easement or talk to 15 them in any detail for, I think, the past three years. They 16 had -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, that's not correct. I 18 met him on the bridge at Arrowhead when I provided 19 Dr. Killian with the easement document, and at that time he 20 indicated to me that he would sign a temporary easement. 21 MR. DEELY: Well -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met him less than two 23 months ago. 24 MR. DEELY: Okay, then I stand corrected. And I 25 think Mr. Killian would entertain an easement, but he wants 3-28-11 97 1 to make sure, number one, that -- can we define where the 2 road lies for the future? In other words, can we -- can we 3 identify the location of the road? Number two is, he's 4 concerned about what will be done with the equipment, what 5 protections there will be. And so I think he wants to 6 review -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, here is the document if 8 he would like to review it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, all we're doing right now 10 is -- is authorizing Commissioner Oehler to provide these 11 documents. 12 MR. DEELY: He's not going to sign it today, is my 13 point. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. All we're doing is 15 authorizing the document. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we need to have a 17 deadline, though, because we may need to move forward with 18 another -- another way to do this. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do that under the next agenda 20 item. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. HENNEKE: And I'd be glad to meet with you this 24 week, you or Dr. Killian, to discuss, you know, any -- any -- 25 MR. DEELY: More discussion would be helpful. 3-28-11 98 1 There's not been enough of it. 2 MR. HENNEKE: But as far -- just so we know, with 3 Dr. McCubbin, and so the Court's aware, I met with 4 Dr. McCubbin and his attorney, Mr. Schulte, what, six weeks, 5 maybe? Two months ago? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A while. 7 MR. HENNEKE: Provided them with the information, 8 the environmental study from TexDOT, a complete copy of all 9 the surveys and blueprints. We specifically went over how 10 his upstream well is not affected by this project, won't be 11 disrupted, won't be damaged or anything like that, and have 12 had numerous phone calls to his attorneys and several e-mails 13 to those attorneys, and have not received any response back. 14 And, honestly, I assumed that Mr. -- that when Dr. McCubbin 15 signed on the petition, that was his response, because I 16 hadn't been able to get any kind of answer after that 17 face-to-face meeting that we had at least six weeks, maybe 18 two months ago. And I've been trying to get a response ever 19 since. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the motion before us 21 indicates merely a request for their participation in the 22 easement, the temporary construction easement, 5 foot on 23 either side of the road, depending upon which owns which 24 property, it appears. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What do you feel like a 3-28-11 99 1 reasonable timetable would be to give them to review this and 2 possibly sign it before we would need to go another 3 direction? 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, before the next Commissioners 5 Court meeting. These are pretty simple legal issues, and I'm 6 willing to dedicate any amount of time that's necessary to 7 reach an agreement. Saturday, Sundays. I work late at 8 night, so my availability is not an issue. And I think if -- 9 if we can provide them a copy today of exactly the survey, 10 the metes and bounds and the language, so we'll know that 11 that information has been received and communicated. And, 12 Mr. Deely, I'm willing to meet with you and -- and your 13 client any time that's most convenient. 14 MR. DEELY: Well, I'm not sure yet that I'm 15 representing the Killians in this process. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. Well -- 17 MR. DEELY: Just commenting before you today. But, 18 certainly, Mr. Killian will -- I'll give him this 19 information, and somebody will be in touch. 20 MR. HENNEKE: And we can have today a copy of the 21 -- all the information for him to take and consider. We can 22 get a copy made, or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, what's the 24 timetable? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The timetable is that they -- 3-28-11 100 1 they have to start construction by the middle of August. The 2 contract -- I mean the bid has already been let, and the 3 contractor is ready to go. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we have -- we could wait 5 two weeks? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure, we can wait two weeks. 7 I don't mind doing two weeks, whatever is reasonable. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How long is the length of 9 time of the project, start to finish? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wish Mike was still here. 11 I believe he told me two months. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Two months, okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two or three months. It's 14 not a long -- not a big bridge. Not a big, complicated deal. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just kind of a general comment, 16 'cause I know people in the audience are here about this. I 17 mean, we entered into a contract -- three years ago? -- three 18 years ago for this bridge to be built, and entered into an 19 agreement with TexDOT at that time. So, for us to change 20 anything, we have to -- well, we have to basically break our 21 contract. So, that's why there's no action -- we're not 22 taking any action to go forward, 'cause we're going forward. 23 We've already decided to do this bridge. And the -- the 24 other item that discussion was related to, the petition that 25 some of the landowners presented to us, by us not taking 3-28-11 101 1 action, we're not taking action on the petition. In my mind, 2 we're proceeding forward. That's just a kind of 3 clarification as to where we are, because the -- it's 4 difficult to go back to us, you know, three years after we've 5 entered into a contract. 6 MR. DEELY: Well, I wish we'd have known that you 7 were entering into a contract three years ago. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was public record for 9 several meetings. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, 2007 is the date of the 11 contract. 2007. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met with the parties 13 on-site at the -- they were invited to a meeting at the 14 Nelsons' to discuss that back then. And, of course, some 15 were in favor then. Dr. Killian was one that was not in 16 favor, but they were informed. And there wasn't anything 17 much happened until now, and just recently, when the funding 18 became available. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I hearing that -- that we're not 20 going to go forward with any formal action on Agenda items 18 21 and 19, but rather put them on the next agenda? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we do -- I thought we 23 did 18 and 19, and then -- 24 MS. PIEPER: There was a motion and an order. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah, I understand we've got a 3-28-11 102 1 motion. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But hold off on 20. 3 MS. PIEPER: I mean a motion and second. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I understood. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's the right 6 thing to -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. We -- we have a 8 motion and a second before the Court as to both agenda items, 9 to formally make that request that they sign the appropriate 10 documents to grant the temporary construction easements. Any 11 further question or discussion on that motion? All in favor 12 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. With regard 17 to Item 20, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 18 to commence proceedings pursuant to Chapter 21 of the Texas 19 Property Code to obtain necessary easements upon real 20 property along Arrowhead Road owned each by Dr. Curtis C. 21 McCubbin and Divide River Ranch, L.L.C., Kerr County, Texas, 22 for the purpose of construction for the improvement of 23 Arrowhead Road. It's my understanding that we're going to 24 defer on that particular agenda item; is that correct? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 3-28-11 103 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 2 disagreement with that solution? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So let's come back to Item -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10. 6 MR. ODOM: 11. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Item 10. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fire. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do 11 first. Won't take 11 long, if you want to do 11, let Road and Bridge go back to 12 work. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they ready to go? Okay. Let me 14 recall Item 11; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 15 open, read, and award the annual bids for road base, cold 16 mix, aggregate, emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. 17 Mr. Odom, have you had an opportunity to examine those bids 18 and to be in a position to make a recommendation for award of 19 the bids? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I have. At this time, we ask 21 the Court to award these items to the following vendors: 22 Base material, it goes to Allen Keller. I would ask the 23 Court also to accept the bid from Wheatcraft, just from the 24 aspect that it's backup, but Allen Keller is where we would 25 go first. Because of the location, Precinct 3, with just the 3-28-11 104 1 cost factor of time and all, Wheatcraft may be very close to 2 what we're doing in that area of the county, but basically 3 Allen Keller for base material. For corrugated metal pipe, 4 it goes to Contech. Emulsion goes to Ergon. Asphalt is 5 Vulcan Materials. And the paving aggregate was split. 6 Martin Marietta, I got Grade 3 and 4 of trap rock, and 7 Vulcan -- they did not bid Grade 5, which we normally use for 8 our low volume roads. That goes to Vulcan. Just for the 9 Court's information, we have -- some of this material, we 10 went up 12 cents on emulsion, $3.44 a ton on trap rock; 11 that's Grade 3 and Grade 4, and $6.84 on Grade 5. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That went up that much? 14 MR. ODOM: Went up that much. And black base and 15 cold mix, which we do level-ups, black base went up $3.71 a 16 ton, and cold mix went up $4.10 a ton. So, it is something I 17 will have to ponder on as we go into the budget. But you can 18 see, over the last couple of years, where we've inched up. 19 We've gone from $1.60, $1.80, $2.08, now $2.17, $2.18 a 20 gallon. So, it's biting us. It will be very -- if it's 21 wrong, I'll blame it on Kelly. (Laughter.) And we'll have 22 to be very creative, but we plan to maintain our -- go back 23 to our levels of where we were on sealcoat. But it's just 24 going to be very costly. In five years, I hate to see where 25 it's going to be in five years for emulsion or asphalt 3-28-11 105 1 products and all. But we're almost there, as far as having 2 everything reconstructed and all. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept the 4 recommendation of Road and Bridge Administrator -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for those bids. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to make the 8 awards per the recommendation of the Road and Bridge 9 Administrator. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 10 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Thank you, Mr. 15 Odom. 16 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. Now let's go to 18 Item 10; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 19 interlocal agreement for fire services with the City of 20 Kerrville. Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last week I had the opportunity 22 to meet with the City Manager. We visited about kind of this 23 portion of the fire interlocal agreement, and I advised him 24 that it was my intent to put this on the agenda today and to 25 provide, basically, a -- it would probably come in the form 3-28-11 106 1 of an interlocal agreement with the City, but really the 2 intent is to give them a list of what services we would like 3 to get from the City of Kerrville from a fire standpoint. 4 We're not talking about EMS at all, just fire. And then his 5 response was, once they get that, they can give us a price, 6 and it's kind of a two-step process. I think that we can get 7 our part of it fairly easily; then we can see what the City 8 does in response, and then make, you know, a decision. 9 In getting to this point, I went back and looked at 10 the current contract that we have with the City for fire. I 11 want to read some of those points that -- some of those items 12 into the record, because I think it's very important. I 13 think there's a -- based on the e-mails that I'm receiving 14 from the public, there's a big misconception about what the 15 contract says, and I think that it's a -- that we -- everyone 16 needs to be aware. And it's very short. The agreement was 17 dated October 1st, 2006, and it's been renewed since then. 18 But -- and broken down, you know, to types of calls. And for 19 a structural fire, it says outside the city, and the 20 volunteer fire department for the jurisdiction has not 21 responded within four minutes, the Sheriff's Department 22 dispatcher may request the City send a pumper truck. That's 23 the agreement. And there's no, really, discussion in here 24 about any -- where it is in the county. It's a county-wide 25 contract. 3-28-11 107 1 The -- the -- I guess what implements the contract 2 is volunteer fire departments and their response time, and 3 coordination of that with the Sheriff's Department. So, I 4 think there's a -- you know, it's not -- what I'm getting a 5 lot of my e-mails about is on what they think the public is 6 getting. Grass fires. The City shall not respond to a call 7 or a report for a fire that predominantly involves grass or 8 other vegetation unless a call for help is made by the fire 9 department located in the area of that fire, which would be 10 the volunteer fire departments. So, there is no response for 11 any grass fire -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Brush fire. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brush fire under the contract, 14 unless it's a request made by the volunteer fire department. 15 Auto fires, rescue calls. This is very interesting, 16 because -- I'll read it. The City shall respond to auto 17 fires, wrecks, or any other type of situation other than 18 natural disaster which shall occur -- which shall require 19 rescuing. Example: Drowning, searches, fuel spills. City 20 shall respond with the rescue truck or pumper truck as 21 needed. It's interesting. This is -- there's no -- and I 22 don't think this was the intent. I'm not throwing a rock at 23 the City, 'cause I don't think I ever thought this is what we 24 were entering into on this contract when we did it back then, 25 but this says that the City shall send a fire truck to every 3-28-11 108 1 wreck that may have an injury in it in the county, and it 2 doesn't matter where it is. And there's no request; it's 3 automatic response. And, you know, I don't think that's what 4 we want, and I know that's not what we're getting, but that's 5 what the contract calls for. 6 And then non-emergency fires. City shall respond 7 to incidents such as smoke-instigated responses, not actual 8 fires, malicious or accidental false alarms, and fire 9 investigations, except -- and except that there shall be no 10 charge when the investigation's made as a courtesy to the 11 Sheriff's Department. Again, I'm not sure that that's 12 happening, and I don't know that we really want it happening. 13 But it's -- you know, there's, again here, no request 14 required. It says the "City shall respond," and I don't 15 think that's what we really want. But I think we need to 16 clarify this. I think it's a relatively easy item for me. 17 If you start at the bottom going back up, I don't think we 18 want the City to respond to any non-emergency fire department 19 -- or fire emergencies. And on auto fires and rescue calls, 20 I don't want the City to respond to any auto fire, to rescue 21 calls, unless requested by the volunteer fire departments in 22 that jurisdiction. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or the Sheriff, maybe. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the Sheriff, possibly. On 25 grass fires and structure fires, I look at those kind of as 3-28-11 109 1 the same category. And, to me, we need to have a defined 2 area, and in that defined area -- I think that's kind of what 3 the practice currently is. I think that the, you know, 4 request that the City send a pumper truck to -- within a 5 geographic area as a first responder. They're supposed to -- 6 you know, they keep on telling us they're the first responder 7 right now, but the contract says that they're not. Contract 8 says that the volunteer fire department has to request them, 9 so I think that we need to have that as a primary responder, 10 with one truck, within a geographic area where they -- where 11 their response time is going to be quicker than any of our 12 volunteer fire departments. And kind of on the east side -- 13 and I don't know how we do this. That's why I wanted Bill to 14 stay a little bit and help. 15 On the east side of Kerrville, kind of from -- you 16 can almost draw a line down the middle. To me, I'd probably 17 do something like a 5-mile radius around from downtown 18 Kerrville. I think that probably gets into Center Point. 19 Five miles or something like that, you know, or 4 miles 20 beyond the ETJ, or 3 miles beyond the ETJ, some kind of a 21 geographic boundary. When you get to the west side of 22 Kerrville, because you have an Ingram Fire Department right 23 there, and City of Ingram, I'm not sure how you handle that 24 area as much. But I think that, to me, we need to have a -- 25 a very clear boundary as to where their primary response is, 3-28-11 110 1 because -- and in any event, what the contract has called for 2 is not -- they're really there as a first response to 3 stabilize the situation, 'cause they do have a quicker 4 response. And I think that's -- that quickness is 5 geographically -- it is cold. And it is a geographic 6 condition. That's just my thoughts on it. And like to see 7 what the rest of the Court has to think. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- grass fires. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Structure fires. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And structure fires. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And the reason I put -- 12 I put those together, really, is that if -- and everything 13 I'm being told by the volunteer fire departments and by the 14 City is that the benefit is that they can get there quicker. 15 Where they can get there quicker if you have a grass fire, 16 the -- you know, or a structure fire, either way, it's -- 17 those first minutes are the most important. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they can -- no matter if 19 they have a limited amount of water, -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- they can still, you know, 22 squirt something on it till the volunteers get there, fix it 23 up. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can save a residence if 25 there's a, you know, residence right there. They can 3-28-11 111 1 probably save that residence, even though they may not be 2 able to put out the fire. And that's kind of -- you know, 3 and I think that there's a mutual aid agreement that is in 4 place that we kind of use also if additional backup is 5 requested. I think there's -- that kind of comes into play, 6 and I certainly hope those mutual aid agreements would stay 7 in place. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I had a thought about -- I 9 know it's scary when I have a thought about anything, but 10 over the weekend I got to thinking about pretty much what 11 you're saying about defining the geographic area, because the 12 situation is much different for Guy and for Buster than it is 13 for you and I. I mean, I -- anything, you know, around the 14 Ingram area and west, I mean, I feel like that volunteers not 15 only have been taking care of it, but they will continue to. 16 And it's going to get better as time goes on, and has gotten 17 better. So, you know, my thought is that we just -- we 18 designate the area that we want the first response in. That 19 would cover the places that are uncovered. And also, then in 20 addition to that, we could add that the Kerrville Fire 21 Department could be called to assist by the Sheriff for areas 22 as needed, and we would pay a certain amount per call in 23 areas that weren't designated as the first response. There 24 could be a situation where -- it would probably be rare, but 25 at least they -- they would be compensated for what they did, 3-28-11 112 1 which I think is fair. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- if we can figure out a way 3 to get there, I don't have a problem with that. I mean, I 4 don't know how you -- I mean, my concern -- I mean, I agree 5 with that. I think the agreement needs to really focus on 6 the primary response. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the current agreement does 9 not do that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we need to really 12 narrow that focus down. And one of the things that I know 13 that the Chief has mentioned several times at our joint 14 meetings about -- he brought up the high water rescue in 15 Hunt; the Kerrville Fire Department went out and helped with 16 that. They did. It was great. But the reality also is 17 that, you know, there are other -- at least two of your fire 18 departments have high water rescue capabilities and diving 19 capabilities. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one has diving. I'm 22 not sure about Hunt. I know if you go east, Center Point and 23 Comfort have those same capabilities. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't know that -- you 3-28-11 113 1 know, yes, if there is a -- you know, if a tragedy such as a 2 bus going into the river somewhere, yeah, we're going to want 3 every dive and rescue team in the county there. But on a -- 4 generally, I think that they can be handled in those rural 5 areas. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and I talked to one of 7 the volunteer fire chiefs the other day, and his 8 recommendation as far as, you know, water rescues and things 9 like that is that they kind of -- they kind of get a person 10 or two from each department together and kind of create a 11 team that can -- that will -- you know, they'll be -- they 12 won't all be at one location and have to -- whenever they 13 can't get out, if the river's up on one side, they'll have 14 other people available. And I thought that was a really 15 pretty good, you know, recommendation of something -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let me -- Commissioner 17 Oehler, let me add to what you said previously. And I'm glad 18 you pointed out -- and, Commissioner Letz, I'm glad that you 19 pointed out the contract as far as the -- the terminology in 20 that contract, the way it reads. And I think that we need to 21 clearly spend a lot more time on what our citizens out in the 22 county -- what type of services they're going to receive. I 23 think Commissioners Oehler's comments about areas as far as 24 demographics, our areas are much different in what we have. 25 I -- I've said this the other night, and I'm glad that our -- 3-28-11 114 1 Chris, you're here from our professional firefighters. 2 Again, thank you folks for putting that on and -- and having 3 that. We had a lot of folks from our -- citizens of our 4 community there to hear that conversation. But the reality's 5 -- you know my deal, looking at Precinct 2, our volunteer 6 fire department, I'm glad that we all agree our volunteer 7 fire departments do a fantastic job, and the Center Point one 8 does a great job. 9 Again, my comments with the -- the fire agreement 10 arrangements with the City, and listening to the volunteer 11 fire department in Center Point, Precinct 2, they see it, 12 again, as a -- as an insurance policy, basically. It's a -- 13 it's a policy that when those folks are working between the 14 hours of 8:00 and 5 o'clock, the working folks, they have a 15 lot of concern about covering during that time out in Center 16 Point, and the need to -- my comments back to them are, what 17 would you want me to support? And, again, the need to have 18 that insurance policy in place is here what we're discussing 19 about today, and just trying to get that amount to have that 20 response. And, again, I think, again, it's pretty -- pretty 21 clear to the folks in Precinct 2; they do want to have that 22 coverage, that backup, that response from the City of 23 Kerrville's fire department, and to negotiate a -- a fair 24 price as far as what that option would be. 25 I know that the City Manager -- Commissioner Letz 3-28-11 115 1 has talked to you about trying to have a negotiation to get 2 back and have a price and what's fair for what services we're 3 requesting, and also understanding the cooperative agreement 4 that we have with each other. The County, again, as our 5 records over the last three years show, we've paid 180, 185. 6 I think this past year again, it's $200,000, basically, in 7 what we pay. And the City of Kerrville's request is to go to 8 $500,000, which just on that -- on that interlocal agreement 9 itself is a 150 percent increase. Friday night at our 10 meeting, it was very clear from the citizens that were there 11 at the meeting that there's a lot of frustration in 12 understanding that that increase was exorbitantly high and 13 that there needs to be a compromise, and that's why I'm here. 14 I'm just speaking from my precinct, and from what I'm 15 hearing, the message is pretty clear to me; that they want to 16 see an agreement on the fire side, on what we're talking 17 about on this item right here, but that we work out something 18 that's comparable, that's fair. 19 The comment was made, again, there was no way that 20 the County could be expected to jump to $500,000. Basically, 21 we're all folks who've had business opportunities and we ran 22 businesses. If we had a 5 or 6 percent increase each year, 23 we can absorb those costs over the years to help get to get 24 that point of operation. And so we are at a decision right 25 now to make sure that we provide that service. Commissioner 3-28-11 116 1 Letz has stated what the service is in his comments, but we 2 need to come up with a fair coverage for our citizens. I 3 know that the request of 200,000 -- and I'm just speaking on 4 behalf of what -- what I would like to see support. Again, 5 we have to clarify the services and the radius that we're 6 talking about, but I would be supportive of seeing something 7 along the line of a -- a potential 20 percent increase in 8 that request, with a cap for a couple years, and then for 9 years following that, that there would be an increment 10 increase of 10 percent. And I'd like to see a 5- or 10-year 11 period be negotiated, so that there is a -- a time frame 12 where we don't have to keep coming back and negotiating that. 13 But I think with that, that can fall into a line of 14 what examples of businesses experience every day when they 15 have a 5 or 8 percent increase in their materials and 16 operations. The same thing with our agreement with the City. 17 And so I think if we -- if we -- again, it's just an 18 opportunity to hear your discussion, but I'd like to say 19 that, you know, maybe a 20 percent increase in this first 20 year with a cap for the first two years, clarify the radius 21 of what we specify, the services that we expect, and then for 22 future years, after maybe the second year, maybe a 10 percent 23 increase, and have it capped at 10 years; ask for a 10-year 24 cap. And that's just my -- my take on that as far as a 25 potential agreement. 3-28-11 117 1 And then I think the other thing that needs to be 2 stated is the -- you know, the setting a deadline of March 3 31st as the deadline for negotiations/discussion. I think it 4 needs to be very clear to the citizens out -- and in Kerr 5 County that we -- you know, if we can't get this agreement 6 done by March 31st, the service doesn't stop. We have six 7 more months in our agreement that we're there, and so they're 8 going to be taking care of you, and we're going to take care 9 of the citizens in our county and our precincts. But, you 10 know, I would ask that, as the Commissioners Court, that we 11 come right back to the City and say, "Hey, we're ready to sit 12 down, and let's negotiate this soon." I mean, I'm -- let's 13 talk about in the next few days, whenever they want to come 14 back together, and let's get this worked out, get the 15 details, let the citizens know that we're ready to move 16 forward with this, and move forward. So, I would encourage 17 that Commissioners Court wants to move forward and get this 18 done as quickly as possible. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, one thing -- and 20 you triggered something that I forgot to mention in my 21 comments to City Manager Parton, was that ESD. They asked 22 where we were going. He said that the City had an interest 23 in knowing long-term where the County was going on fire and 24 EMS. We're only talking fire here. And I told him -- I said 25 that the County had acquired property in Kerrville South for 3-28-11 118 1 a fire station, and that my feeling was our hopefully 2 long-term plan was to try to really get a fire station -- a 3 volunteer fire department up and going again in Kerrville 4 South. I said, and I think a part of that, in my mind 5 anyway -- the Court hasn't really talked about this, but that 6 we need either a county-wide, or certainly an additional ESD 7 in the county to help fund these -- another volunteer fire 8 department, especially in that area. And that may be just -- 9 it may be simpler and quicker just to do another ESD down 10 there. 11 And I think that that needs to be -- a plan like 12 that needs to be relayed back to the City as to kind of where 13 we seem to be going, because from their -- from what he's 14 told me, anyway, their long-term staffing and things of that 15 nature, they would like to know that. And I think that's a 16 fair question for us. And I don't think we need to -- if we 17 need to at some point, it's not on the agenda -- really go 18 down that road and really talk about that today. But I think 19 that we need to get that information, or discuss it and get 20 it back to the City as to where we plan to go down the road 21 on fire. And an ESD does not mean, in my mind, changing the 22 agreement with the City of Kerrville on fire. I think that 23 there -- you know, I envision always wanting to have a -- 24 some sort of an interlocal agreement with the City of 25 Kerrville related to fire. That agreement may change over 3-28-11 119 1 time, based on volunteer fire departments, ESD's, things of 2 that nature. And then the other comment, based on what 3 Commissioner Overby said, my impression from the City Manager 4 was that if we can give him what we want, then he can come up 5 with a price, and that time would probably be the proper time 6 to sit down and have a meeting; that they really would like 7 to get a -- you know, the goal was, he thought it was 8 worthwhile for us to set the -- the level of service we 9 wanted today, and then let them come back to us with a price 10 for that level of service. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really feel like that the 12 long-term solution, if it doesn't include the -- that doesn't 13 include the city in an ESD county-wide, it doesn't work. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good point, talking about the 15 ESD's. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because that's just -- it's 17 too -- it's too disjointed to work the other way, plus you 18 don't get enough participants. You can make it a county-wide 19 and get all -- make all that revenue go to that service, and 20 not come through a political subdivision like the County or 21 the City, nor would it be controlled by the County or City; 22 it would be controlled by an independent board. It would 23 have a better chance to work long-term than the way we're 24 doing it now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, Commissioner, a county-wide ESD 3-28-11 120 1 makes sense from the standpoint of we continually hear the 2 argument about city residents saying, "Well, we're paying our 3 part and we're paying half of yours." It takes that one off 4 the table. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Takes it all out of there. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As to the ESD and/or fire service. 7 The logical single provider for that service obviously is -- 8 is City of Kerrville. Obviously, I think they -- they'd have 9 a leg up, as it were, to provide those services on a 10 county-wide ESD, certainly, supplemented by our VFD's on the 11 fire side. Our volunteer fire departments, they don't want 12 to get into EMS service. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They're doing a good job with fire. 15 They -- they don't want to get involved in the EMS side. So, 16 it's pretty much go forward, except you've got the -- this 17 body out of it; you got the City Council out of it, and 18 you've got a professional body of -- of commissioners on an 19 ESD district that is focused only on those issues. And I 20 think that's -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just like the airport. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the appropriate -- exactly like 23 the airport. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, if it's working so 25 well at the airport, why can't it work on this? 3-28-11 121 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We keep hearing about the 2 March 31st -- and I'm glad Commissioner Overby mentioned 3 that. The City requested that we get this resolved at our 4 very first meeting in January, and we listened to that 5 request. And contrary to what has been indicated from the 6 city side, we did, quote, not agree to get it resolved. We 7 didn't respond. And certainly, as I've previously indicated, 8 the fact that we agreed to listen to their request does not 9 mean acquiescence and agreement to it. It merely means that 10 we listened to it, as we should. We should respectfully 11 listen to anything they put forward. But their continued 12 insistence on this March 31 is unfortunate for two reasons. 13 Number one, I think it gives the impression to the city -- 14 citizens that if we don't have something in place by March 15 31, the sky is falling; i.e., no more fire and EMS services 16 out in the county. And as Commissioner Oehler -- Overby 17 said, nothing could be further from the truth. They're under 18 contract until September 30th. I -- I think I understand, 19 gentlemen -- and the professional firefighters may have some 20 knowledge about this, of why they want to get this resolved 21 from a staffing problem by March 31. It's my understanding 22 that from a budgetary standpoint, they have some salary 23 increases, some pay raises going into effect on April 1, and 24 they may want to unload their boat before that. 25 MR. LEE: If I may comment on that? 3-28-11 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 2 MR. LEE: There's a ban. Nobody is getting a pay 3 raise this year. Nobody as of October -- FY '11-'12 budget 4 year, there were no pay raises budgeted for this year. 5 Because I was one of those that was supposed to proceed with 6 a pay raise February the 8th; however, I did not receive one 7 because of budgetary issues. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Was there -- 9 MR. LEE: The increases were not -- also did not go 10 into play. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, they had some plans, but 12 they didn't implement them? 13 MR. LEE: They have not implemented any of the step 14 increases. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Well, I was aware that 16 they had built into the budget going into this fiscal year 17 some increases effective approximately midyear. 18 MR. LEE: Well, and like I said, all I can say is 19 from the fire department side, and that was that nobody 20 received any of their step increases. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that's good. Maybe 22 they're not under that pressure and we got time, then. Not 23 good that you didn't get an increase, but -- (Laughter.) 24 MR. LEE: And they're talking about not having one 25 next year also, because, you know, I mean, how can you lay 3-28-11 123 1 people off and -- and then give everybody else a pay raise? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from the standpoint of sitting 3 down and discussing with them, we don't have -- if that was 4 the basis for this March 31, deadline, we don't have that 5 pressure, and that's good to know. 6 MR. LEE: I believe the March 31st deadline was 7 just so they could work on their budget, and they just didn't 8 want to have an issue like last year where we ended up in 9 September trying to come to some type of agreement. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they hit us in June or 11 July with it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I appreciate 13 that input. And I think the -- you know, a little bit more 14 about the meeting I had with the City Manager is that the -- 15 I made it very clear that, you know, our request to the City 16 is from my standpoint. I wasn't speaking for the Court, but 17 this is the level of service that we would like to have. 18 This is what we would like to see in the contract. What the 19 City does with their fire department is no business of the 20 County's. And it -- I mean, it's not -- you know, it's up to 21 them. They -- you know, I made some comments previously that 22 if you look at this contract, I don't see that it has much of 23 a staffing implication to the city fire department. You 24 know, but I'm not in charge of that department, so it doesn't 25 make any -- you know, it's irrelevant. You know, just a nice 3-28-11 124 1 comment on my part. It's up to them to figure out how 2 they're going to staff their department, what they pay people 3 and all that. All our obligation is, to me, is to -- at this 4 point, is to tell the City what we want, would like to have 5 in a contract, and then they'll give us a price, and then 6 it's up to us to figure out if that's acceptable or not. 7 Commissioner Baldwin, you're being awful quiet down there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are doing good. 9 MR. AMERINE: Commissioner Letz? I know this takes 10 away from the contract aspect of your discussion, but I 11 wanted to make a comment about this geographic thing that you 12 and Commissioner Oehler were discussing. First of all, 911's 13 system associates with every phone number a name, a physical 14 address, and something called an ESN, emergency service 15 number, and that number is really arbitrary. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: ESN? 17 MR. AMERINE: ESN. What that number means is -- to 18 our system, is it tells the dispatcher who the law 19 enforcement responder is, who the EMS responder is. In this 20 case, which fire station the EMS vehicle would come from, and 21 also who the volunteer fire department or fire department 22 will be. We can do that with this geographic area that 23 you're talking about. But there's two cautionary things I 24 want to say in reference to that. And I think the Sheriff 25 can back me up, and if Chief Young was here, he'd back me up. 3-28-11 125 1 For dispatchers who are dealing with tense emergencies with 2 people on the other end of the phone who are yelling and 3 screaming, the simpler the protocol, the better. And it 4 needs to be repeatable, so that that asks the question, is 5 this always going to be the case when this number is dialed? 6 That you're going to dispatch these three agencies, or are 7 there going to be decision trees that they're going to have 8 to remember? "Well, if it's this, then do that." So, we can 9 create additional geographic areas; the system will support 10 that, but it needs to be a "yes" or "no" answer. Will we 11 always dispatch these three services from that location -- to 12 that location? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm interested right now, 14 because under the -- looking at our contract, there's no 15 mention of geographic areas, yet somebody is making a 16 decision in dispatch, because they're not dispatching the 17 fire department to all calls. So, there's got to be 18 something -- 19 MR. AMERINE: And I can't speak to what the 20 individual call center protocols are outside of what 911 21 displays to them, but we currently have -- it's under 40 -- 22 what is it, 34, 35 ESN's? These are unique geographic areas. 23 Law enforcement and EMS are unique to that area. Sounds like 24 a lot for a small area like ours, but what causes the 25 complexities, we also have something that a lot of areas 3-28-11 126 1 don't use, which is called First Responder. These are 2 citizens, folks who are trained that can respond initially 3 before everybody else gets there, so that adds that fourth 4 layer of complexity. My point is, we can do that, but we 5 want to make sure, if we're taking that out, we create 6 geographic response areas that 911's going to display to 7 dispatchers, that the rule is always that they don't have to 8 think creatively. You don't want creative thinking from the 9 dispatcher. You want them to say, "I send this unit this 10 time." 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm not taking anything 12 away from dispatch. 13 MR. AMERINE: Trust me, from the perspective of 14 what they're dealing with, the kind of emergencies they deal 15 with, you want their direction to be clear, that they look at 16 that screen and they -- with that phone number, it says -- or 17 that area, if it's a wireless call, this is who I send, and 18 this is who I always send. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that for this -- 20 that's why I asked you to stay for this part of the 21 conversation, Mr. Amerine. And I think it's going to be 22 important because of the -- the machines you have, PSAP and 23 all that stuff, -- 24 MR. AMERINE: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that you at least review -- 3-28-11 127 1 whenever we get to our contracts, and hopefully I think we 2 can get there, to look at it to make sure it works from a 3 technology standpoint. 4 MR. AMERINE: Certainly. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because we don't want -- 'cause 6 that -- it's got to be this way every way -- I mean every 7 time. You can't -- you don't want people having to think 8 when they're in an emergency situation. 9 MR. AMERINE: Right. Creative thinking can be a 10 bad thing, because you can have dispatchers go, "Well, I'm 11 not sending a unit," when they should, and vice versa. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it needs to be real clear as 13 to how we do this, and maybe that's why it wasn't done 14 geographically last time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Chris? 16 MR. LEE: May I make a comment on the contract that 17 you now currently have? That the Kerrville Fire Department 18 will serve as the First Responder for the old Kerrville South 19 area. And I think that was added into that contract in 1995, 20 that the Kerrville Fire Department will be the First 21 Responder for the old Kerrville South area. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not in the contract. 23 MR. LEE: It's not in that one? May I read it? 24 May I see it? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a -- 2006, it was done. 3-28-11 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The base contract is 2006. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's modeled after the 2000 3 contract that was -- and there's, like, 13 amendments to it. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Chris, that was also -- I 5 think that was the example you were using Friday as well. 6 That contract was the same. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought that it was. 8 MR. LEE: Right here. For the Kerrville South 9 area, City shall be considered the first responder fire 10 department and shall respond with a pumper and three fire 11 personnel. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry, Chris. 14 MR. LEE: That's okay. (Laughter.) And that's 15 that geographical area right now that we currently have, 16 where our fire -- the volunteer fire departments all have 17 their certain areas. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. LEE: And that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 21 MR. LEE: Well, for that Kerrville South area, 22 which includes north of town also. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But as I -- I believe -- and 24 this isn't -- you know, there was a fire in Center Point 25 about a month ago that Kerrville sent trucks immediately to. 3-28-11 129 1 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which -- you know, which is -- 3 you know, it helped, but that's not in the contract. And 4 that's why I think we need the contract. 5 MR. LEE: Well, if I may, -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless requested. 7 MR. LEE: -- the fire chief out there almost 8 inherently, if there is a confirmed structure fire in Center 9 Point, has asked on several occasions for automatic aid. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we just need to 12 make sure -- what I'm saying is not that we don't want that. 13 I'm saying we need to make sure that the contract reflects 14 what we're doing and what we want. 15 MR. LEE: Yes, sir. Well, it does now as far as 16 where there's no response in four minutes. Then the 17 Sheriff's Department may do it, or they may -- the volunteer 18 fire department may call you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: They may, yes. 20 MR. LEE: For that aid. And the fire chief can 21 say -- his name is slipping my mind -- Danny Smith. He -- he 22 routinely calls on us for that, that response. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: He wants you there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, do you want to say 25 something? This is going to be in lieu of any comments you 3-28-11 130 1 wish to make in the last part of the agenda. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I knew you'd put some kind of 3 limits on it. That's okay. Number one, I agree with 4 Jonathan; the geographical area, whether it be 3 miles, 5 5 miles, whatever, from the city or from the closest Kerrville 6 fire station, I think that would be advisable. But the one 7 part I do have, where you said it either be requested by the 8 volunteer fire department or the Sheriff's Office, and my 9 only issue there is, with five guys out, I don't have -- I 10 won't get there necessarily every time, especially wrecks or 11 other things. I think you need to include it could be 12 requested by D.P.S. And depending on Ingram, you know, how 13 you're going to cover the city of Ingram, it could be 14 requested by an Ingram Marshal or somebody like that. Not 15 just us. 16 Now, the other thing I have to say on swift water 17 rescues and things like that, and having been here when we 18 didn't have that before, and been the one in the river at 19 times, and the dive team, the one thing Kerrville Fire 20 Department does have, in watching them, that I don't believe 21 any of the other volunteers had, they have the capability of 22 communication underwater and back on land with that diver as 23 he's doing those searches in those -- in those areas. Their 24 equipment they have is very expensive and very technical 25 equipment. That comes in extremely handy in those type of 3-28-11 131 1 situations. So, we always need -- I think, no matter what, 2 we always need the ability to call on them at any time by any 3 of the agencies that are involved, you know, or by the -- 4 whoever the -- the emergency manager is, you might say, for 5 that incident. Okay. The command person for that certain 6 particular incident going on needs the ability to be able to 7 call on them like we would normally. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And funds come from your 9 budget? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm going to be honest; 11 in an emergency situation like that -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can take funds from your 13 budget. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't care where you 15 get them. When I call, we're going to need -- you know, 16 we're going to need those people to respond. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, to me -- and maybe 18 I'm wrong, Sheriff, on this, but I think that the -- we do 19 have mutual aid agreements. Maybe we need to look at those, 20 because I know this cuts both ways. If there's a high water 21 rescue, necessarily, in the city of Kerrville, City of 22 Kerrville may want the Ingram Fire Department to help with 23 that too. I mean, and I think -- I suspect they would. You 24 know, I go back to the Saddlewood fire several years ago. 25 Every volunteer fire department around here was in the city 3-28-11 132 1 limits fighting that fire. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, a lot of that fire was 3 out in the county, though. That's one of those where -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they were -- I mean, they 5 weren't worried about -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The city. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They weren't saying, "Where's 8 the city limits line? We're not going to cross it." They 9 were fighting fire. So, I think that the mutual aid 10 agreement is how we get through that, where there's an issue. 11 And I suspect that if there's another big fire in the city, 12 the volunteer fire departments, if requested, will certainly 13 come help. And, you know, I don't think we need to try to do 14 an agreement that addresses every scenario, because 15 hopefully -- I don't think it's "hopefully" -- both the 16 volunteer fire departments and the Kerrville Fire Department 17 are professionals, and they're going to help in emergencies. 18 And that's the purpose of the mutual aid. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. I think we -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our job is to try to come up 21 with a protocol on when the County would like to have kind of 22 the Kerrville Fire Department as a first responder. Or 23 first -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. But I -- and I also 25 agree with Bill that it's got to be defined. It's got to be 3-28-11 133 1 a set deal where the dispatchers aren't the ones trying to 2 make that decision, okay, on who they -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can also -- going back 4 again to the public, is that the intent has never been for 5 the volunteer -- for the Kerrville Fire Department to be the 6 firefighter for parts of the county. It is to get there 7 quickest and help stabilize and assist the volunteer fire 8 departments. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only -- and the only 10 comment I have in regard to that is, I don't think it should 11 be limited to a truck, a pumper and a certain number of 12 personnel. If they're going to be the first responder to 13 that area, depending on what type of fire it is, everything 14 else, I think they need the ability to respond with whatever 15 they need until such time as the volunteer fire department 16 can take it over. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Chief Ojeda has assured us, and I'm 18 confident will continue to assure us -- and I have every bit 19 of confidence in him. He does not read the contract, nor 20 does he have his incident commanders read the contract. He 21 says, "What do you need? Ask for it." And that's what 22 happens. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, unfortunately, I have 24 seen in the past, under a different chief, where it was read, 25 and where it did cost a home. And my deal is, not all of us 3-28-11 134 1 are going to be here at that time, so I think they -- in the 2 contract, you know, it needs to be where they can, and it's 3 in the contract, "until such time as volunteers can get 4 there." 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'd like -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the contract should be 7 worded in that instance that the -- the chief, his designee, 8 or the incident commander has the discretion to request 9 whatever assets he feels are necessary for the situation. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's -- that's what he's going 12 to do anyway, and I have every confidence that that's going 13 to be the case. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't limit it. 15 MR. LEE: One comment I'd like to make about just 16 paying for the resource as you use it. I think that's been 17 done in the past, and it's been a budgetary issue, because 18 there were no calls one year and there were ten calls next 19 year. And that's part of the way this contract was formed, 20 or why it was formed, is because it was hard to budget for 21 year to year, so that they decided to pay a set amount and be 22 done with it. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I wanted to say this just for 24 the record again, 'cause I do, again, want to get back to the 25 folks in my precinct, and what they're telling me is it's an 3-28-11 135 1 insurance policy we're buying. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like Bruce Motheral. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, you know what? I don't 4 know. But, again, it's kind of -- watch that one. Got to 5 watch that one, Oehler. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just on this issue. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. But -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Insurance policy theory. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- the people in Precinct 2, 10 I asked them the question right off the bat, you know, if 11 we're talking about here increasing so that we can keep up 12 with costs and those things, and what that means -- again, 13 and we're just talking about fire, not talking about anything 14 else here right now. Again, the -- what that means for a 15 short-term bridge to get to what we may have to do. The ESD 16 is obviously the long-term solution that we've talked about. 17 That needs to be county-wide. That's an educational process 18 that we need to go out and get the citizens involved in and 19 get their comments. But the short-term solution of dealing 20 with these agreements right now is not a -- one that we want 21 to really talk about, and especially with economic times that 22 we're all experiencing, talking about no raises for you 23 folks. This is -- this county's experiencing the same thing 24 over the years, and many businesses are. But the tough 25 choice that I've asked those folks who made those comments 3-28-11 136 1 about, "We want you to support Kerrville Fire," and I asked 2 them right back after they say that, "Are you willing to also 3 help fund the necessary revenue that may be necessary to help 4 that?" The comments that I'm getting back is, "Yes, we 5 will." And so I -- I say that, and that's always a very 6 controversial thing, but again, it's something that we have 7 to state, and understand it's just the cost of -- of those 8 things we have to do to make sure those agreements are in 9 place. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Before Buster -- before Buster just 12 wastes away from lack of nourishment, why don't we get back 13 on this contract that we're going to submit so that we can 14 get through and not put Buster at risk here. He's having a 15 devil of a time. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Breakdown. It's a 17 breakdown. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Buzzie's? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the current contract's 20 pretty simple. Don't need a whole lot of changes, to me, in 21 my mind. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you planning on coming 23 out of here today with a new contract? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With a request to the City, 25 yes. I don't say we can't sign a contract if they agree to 3-28-11 137 1 it. I think -- I mean, from -- and I think -- I mean, 2 when -- and this is just the City Manager and I talking, was 3 that if we can come up with what we want, and they can give 4 us what it's going to cost, then we can see where we are. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it sounded like to me 6 that -- that you -- that you reduced the services 7 considerably. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did. Because we're not 9 getting it now anyway. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So why don't we reduce -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What we're getting, we don't 12 want. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we reduce the 14 contribution accordingly? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- and maybe this isn't 16 the right way to do it, 'cause I've had -- both of y'all want 17 to go talking dollars, and I'm just talking services, you 18 know. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was just a matter -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Needs to be clarified. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, to me, you know, how I 23 left it with the City Manager is to let them come up with the 24 dollar amount, and we're reducing -- I think that's -- you 25 know, if we're reducing services, it's -- that's in the 3-28-11 138 1 contract. I think they should note that, you know. But I 2 think we're also -- I'm also hearing increasing the service 3 in part of the area under the current contract. The current 4 contract calls for one truck. That's not what's being 5 followed, and it's not what we probably want. I mean, if 6 they need to send two trucks, we want them to have the 7 ability to send two trucks, because it's what they're 8 currently doing anyway. I mean, I think we need to -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But we're getting -- we're 10 trying to be charged for that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, but I do think 12 -- I mean, I think that the -- you know, the non-fire 13 emergencies, I'm not sure why we would want them to respond 14 in the county for a non-fire emergency. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. You're saying they're 16 not -- no. Yeah, they're not requested by the Sheriff's 17 Department or volunteer fire departments. Is that what 18 you're saying? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, for auto fires and 20 rescue calls. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Upon request of the trooper 22 or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Upon request of, you know, -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Law enforcement. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- an agency. 3-28-11 139 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or a volunteer fire 2 department, if they happen to be there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I know that in the 4 eastern part of the county, Center Point and Comfort get on 5 the interstate -- Comfort gets on the interstate pretty 6 quick. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've written down, "Request 8 by S.O. or V.F.D." Do we want to expand from -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Law enforcement. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Law enforcement. Okay, that 11 one's done, right? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about grass fires? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, grass fires and 17 structure fires are kind of the same thing. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The thing is, the City 20 doesn't have but one -- y'all just have one brush truck, 21 don't you? 22 MR. LEE: We have one brush truck. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I say they're 24 the same thing, I'm thinking back to an incident, I think. 25 In Creekwood where there was a grass fire; that it wasn't a 3-28-11 140 1 structure fire yet, but if they hadn't gotten there, it would 2 have been a structure fire. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that you -- you 5 know, you hate to differentiate. I guess you can say, "Oh, 6 my pasture's on fire," is one thing, but if it's a -- if it's 7 a pasture next to a house, it becomes a -- basically a 8 structure. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are you talking about 11 leaving all this verbiage in here in the structure fire part 12 of it about fences and pens and -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't -- I mean, it's -- 14 a fire is a fire. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then it talks about the 16 volunteer fire department, that jurisdiction has not 17 responded. Now, I don't know what "responded" is. Is that 18 10-8, or is that they answered the phone or what? What does 19 that mean? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know either. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't know -- this 24 thing of -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I think -- 3-28-11 141 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- four minutes here and 2 four minutes there, there's got to be a clearer way to do it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, you set a geographic 4 area where the Kerrville Fire Department is the primary 5 responder. Beyond that, they have to be requested. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly where I am. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're talking about the area 9 formerly served by Kerrville South VFD. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kerrville South and -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And east Kerr County. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not all. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, at least Center Point. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Center Point. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be an interlocal 17 between Center Point and -- because Center Point has an 18 interlocal with Kerrville Fire Department for the airport. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's fine. So, if you go 21 to Center Point -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Want to be able to respond 23 out there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to figure out 25 the geographic area. Bill Amerine is saying if we give him 3-28-11 142 1 the area, they can plug it into the PSAP. Chris, if I might 2 encourage you to look at the current first responder map that 3 we have right now, and I think it stretches over to that 4 area. 5 MR. LEE: Center Point line, if I'm not mistaken. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where -- what's it called, the 7 Kerrville South area? 8 MR. LEE: Well, it's Kerrville South area, and then 9 I think there's an expansion upon that. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's included in that area 11 that you think. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They call it the first responder 13 area. 14 MR. LEE: First responder, yeah. Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to look at that, and 16 maybe make an adjustment. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's fine. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, within that area, we 19 want a response. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm fine with that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're still not -- I 22 mean, they're -- from the standpoint of time, of getting 23 there first. But it's still the responsibility -- the 24 primary responsibility of fighting the fire goes to the 25 volunteer fire departments, if that makes sense. I mean, 3-28-11 143 1 just because Kerrville sends two trucks to Center Point, the 2 Center Point Fire Department's really the ones that are going 3 to fight the fire, because Kerrville Fire Department doesn't 4 have the capability to, from a pumper standpoint. I mean, 5 they -- their trucks don't carry enough water; they can't 6 draft. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aren't any fire plugs out 8 there. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No fire plugs. They can get 10 there and certainly help; their manpower's there, and they 11 can certainly get there probably quicker. But you still have 12 to rely, for fire protection, on the volunteer fire 13 departments. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Kerrville South and 15 North and Center Point, they automatically respond to any 16 kind of fire, grass or structure. Is that what you're 17 saying? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They automatically go? Or 20 do you wait for the volunteer department, if they don't go 21 10-8 or answer the phone within four minutes, that they call 22 and all that nonsense? Which one is it? They automatically 23 go? Well, we need to know here. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If not, we got to call out 3-28-11 144 1 for supper. 2 MR. LEE: To put a word in there, how about 3 "confirmed structure"? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Confirmed structure. 5 MR. LEE: Confirmed structure. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I like that. 7 MR. LEE: You know, that would be, -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We need you to hang around more, 9 Chris. You're doing good, boy. 10 MR. LEE: -- you know, several calls or, you know, 11 something like that would be a confirmed structure fire. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you got the volunteers 13 back in it now, making the request. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- I guess what he's 15 saying, if it's a confirmed structure fire -- 16 MR. LEE: If somebody is standing there saying, "I 17 see smoke and fire coming out," -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody has to confirm it. 19 MR. LEE: -- that's pretty much confirmed. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe -- going back to what 21 you're saying, maybe it's better to leave the brush and grass 22 fires separate. 'Cause, I mean, there's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's not right next to a 25 structure, it's not as critical. If it's right next to a 3-28-11 145 1 structure, it is. And maybe you classify that as a structure 2 fire. 3 MR. LEE: It's hard to tell. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, it is. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying; you 6 want -- the agreement has to be flexible enough to give 7 dispatch-slash-fire department discretion, within reason, as 8 to where they need to go to. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we going to do something on 10 this? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're pretty close. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- the County 14 Attorney has listened to all that, hasn't he? I know he's 15 taking notes. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Word for word. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know -- you know, my 18 hope is to get it out of court today. We're going to meet 19 next Monday. Why don't we add that on our agenda, let the 20 County Attorney take this, try to rework this contract, and 21 we look at it Monday. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say in my area, nothing 23 west of Nichols Creek. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's not too much -- I 25 don't know who the president of the volunteer association is 3-28-11 146 1 now. Who? 2 DEPUTY BARTON: Jerry Vincent. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It may be advisable just to 4 call them and let them sit down with somebody with the fire 5 department and one of y'all within this week time period or 6 whatever and try and work out the details, and then bring it 7 back to y'all Monday. They're the ones fighting the fires, 8 and know what their capabilities are. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's really, I think, a 10 good -- did you say Jerry Vincent? 11 DEPUTY BARTON: Jerry Vincent's the chief of KARFA 12 right now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's an excellent 14 idea, as long as he's there. And include M.H.M.R. 15 (Laughter.) And some liquor store. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: A priest or two. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Priest or two, that's right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney ought to be able to 19 glean whatever he needs from that, shouldn't he? 20 MR. HENNEKE: I'll have a draft agreement by the 21 end of the week, and then if the Court can edit or give it 22 the stamp of approval next Monday, and -- and ship it off 23 with any changes. But I'll put it down on paper, and then 24 y'all can tweak it as -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 3-28-11 147 1 MR. HENNEKE: -- as you need to. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We can call it a sort of consensus 3 draft. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, you can get the consensus next 5 Monday when y'all see on paper what I've gleaned out of 6 the -- the discussion today. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We could actually have a special 9 meeting next Monday in conjunction with the other -- 10 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. We already have the budget 11 workshop. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're here anyway. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to be here next 14 Monday anyway. Thought I'd throw that in. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 o'clock. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We beat that one? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Made progress. Slow. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Throw it out there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 5 of the agenda, 22 reports from Commissioners. One, you got anything? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the -- oh. Oh, 24 yeah. Golly. It's really hard to think on an empty stomach. 25 No, I guess not. 3-28-11 148 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, everything's good. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Three? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Four? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not about to start 9 anything else. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Elected officials? Rusty waived 11 his. Anybody else? Auditor? 12 MS. HARGIS: I just want -- you all have a copy of 13 the 2010 bond election, and the 2008 bond -- it's not bonds 14 -- loan. If you will review those, there's been several 15 requests for different things. Perhaps Monday we could 16 determine if we could use some of those funds for some of 17 these special requests that we have out there, one being an 18 irrigation system at the jail, at the new annex, and the 19 other one being repair of some park area at Center Point, and 20 where we don't have any money allotted. There is, for the 21 park situation -- if you'll look at the 2010 issue, 22 there's -- there's some park money left. Then as far as the 23 irrigation is concerned, there is some money left in the 24 annex. I'm being asked these questions behind the scene; I'd 25 just like for y'all to look at that and decide whether you 3-28-11 149 1 want to use those funds, because that's up to you as to how 2 you use those funds for the -- for the future. The other is, 3 you received about three different revenue and expense 4 reports. I do hope this is simple enough. I worked with 5 Commissioner Oehler. I hope this is -- meets his 6 requirements. You have been getting the summary monthly in 7 my report, but this is an even more -- a smaller, one-page 8 synopsis, a snapshot. Again, we're doing quite well. This 9 time of year, it's real hard to understand, because we got 10 all of our revenue in, you know, December, January, and 11 February, so it kind of masks a little bit of the situation. 12 But you have a chance to look at that. The -- the ones that 13 show the negative are mostly the -- the loan payment area and 14 the bond issue, because all the TAC money has not been 15 credited to those. Usually we come out okay at the end of 16 that, of those times. So, I did -- we put a little note by 17 those. But they get, basically, the tax money as it comes 18 in. Don't have anybody particularly over budget at this 19 particular time, which we didn't expect, so I think we are 20 really -- as tight as budgets are, we're doing pretty well. 21 If there's anything that any of you want, any format changes, 22 just let me know. Let me know and we will get it done. And, 23 you know, we'll give you whatever you want. I just need to 24 know what it is, and I'm there to serve you, and so whatever 25 you want, please let me know. 3-28-11 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now that you brought that 2 up, I got a memo from your office last week, or a couple 3 weeks ago, that it's time for everybody to start entering 4 information into the system. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has that begun? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, are we, us five people 9 up here, allowed to take a look at that stuff? 10 MS. HARGIS: It -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want to change 12 anything; just want to look. 13 MS. HARGIS: No, you have the ability to look at 14 any time. That's the reason you have Incode. You have the 15 readability. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we have some more 17 training -- or could I have some more training? 18 MS. HARGIS: You sure can. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause I don't remember how 20 to do that. 21 MS. HARGIS: Anybody that would like to -- 22 Commissioner Overby, you've not been in the budget process, 23 so -- 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I probably -- 25 MS. HARGIS: -- we can help y'all with any of that, 3-28-11 151 1 if you'd like. The departments have requested, actually, to 2 get in there and start inputting. We asked them to do -- not 3 do two things. One, again, do not mess with salary line 4 items, and number two, if you think you have a legislative 5 change, don't put it in right now, because we don't know what 6 that specifically is going to be. For instance, Juvenile 7 Probation knows they're probably going to lose most of their 8 grants, to the tune of about $110,000, but we don't know that 9 for sure. There's some other legislative changes that even 10 Rusty and I'm aware of, but they're still in motion. And so, 11 until they actually happen that way, we have May to put those 12 things in, and -- and we would rather see the base budget, 13 and then we have the unmandated changes that we're going to 14 have to do, so those could be rather substantial. You know, 15 we just don't know at this stage of the game. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be a good thing to track 17 initially as to how much those new mandates from Austin are. 18 MS. HARGIS: They're coming down pretty quick now. 19 As you know, it's March, so they're starting to come down. 20 The -- I guess that's pretty much -- you know, I don't know 21 -- I'd like to tell you, other than Juvenile Probation and 22 the Adult Probation, they've known pretty well what they're 23 going to get, but the others, it's just an open book. And 24 so -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And everything that you just 3-28-11 152 1 said, I think I heard in the middle of all that that you 2 wanted us to do something? 3 MS. HARGIS: Monday is as Commissioner Letz 4 directs. And, I mean, I -- I would like to ask -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Letz is in charge of 6 Monday? 7 MS. HARGIS: He asked for the workshops. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll welcome that. 9 MS. HARGIS: He asked for the workshops. So, we 10 kind of need from you what you would like for us to bring to 11 the table on Monday. I think it was general conversation to 12 begin with, as I recall, on salaries and the items that we 13 had the most difficulty with at the very last minute. We'd 14 rather deal with, for instance, salaries, grade changes 15 between different categories, if I'm not correct. For 16 instance, I know that Eva wants to recommend maybe going from 17 14's to 15's, things of that nature that are going to be a 18 larger impact on our budget, so that we have a -- a longer 19 time to think about it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At what point do you think 21 that it would be wise for us to get an update from the 22 Appraisal District? 23 MS. HARGIS: The Appraisal District update will 24 come the first week in May. Hopefully, it will be done by 25 the first week in May, and we'll be able to run those numbers 3-28-11 153 1 for you at that point. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have they indicated in any 3 way that they're up or down trend? Or -- 4 MS. HARGIS: I think that, actually, he -- he 5 indicated that there's -- there could be a reduction. But 6 until we actually see the numbers, I don't know. Last year 7 he told us he thought there might be a reduction; we ended up 8 being about 1 percent ahead. You have some new houses to 9 take up for the old, and so we're not sure. Until we get the 10 numbers, I don't know. I can't really tell you. It depends 11 on the sales. I know the sales in our subdivision, they're 12 pulling down the comp a little bit. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see how we can do -- 14 personally, I don't see how we can do a whole lot of really 15 important work until we know -- kind of know what's going to 16 come from over there. 17 MS. HARGIS: Well, I think you can. I think you 18 can discuss a few of these things that we're -- that -- you 19 know, where we're going to go. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where I was, and still am, is 21 staffing. We talked about having a reduction through 22 attrition of 10. I want to know where we are on that. We've 23 talked about looking at our policy as to some policy issues, 24 such as supervisors, things of that nature, level, you know, 25 setting those things in. Health insurance. You know, are we 3-28-11 154 1 looking at becoming, you know, fully insured again, or are we 2 looking at going fully self-funded, or somewhere in between? 3 What's the -- where's the recommendation that we're going to 4 hear from -- and that's the kind of thing I'm looking at. 5 Really not looking at budget numbers yet. We probably can do 6 good to get an update of where we are, but I'm looking more 7 at things that are going to impact the budget rather than the 8 budget itself. 9 MS. HARGIS: And those were the -- really, the 10 things that kind of stopped us last year, that we didn't have 11 a chance to review in advance, and you were having to make 12 those decisions and the budget at the same time. So, perhaps 13 if you get those policy decisions made in advance, it'll help 14 us move a little bit further along as well. I think it's a 15 great idea; I really do. You know, waiting till the last 16 minute kind of forces us to make decisions that perhaps we 17 would like to have a little more time with. So, anybody who 18 needs training, anybody who needs extra stuff, please just 19 ask us. We will provide whatever each individual 20 Commissioner would like. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. What's the jail 22 population, Sheriff? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail population is running in 24 the mid-140's. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 3-28-11 155 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still no -- sorry, doesn't 2 work that way. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we adjourn. 4 (Laughter.) 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You are so nice. One thing on 6 the irrigation, which is actually the sprinkler system out 7 there. The new annex doesn't have one at all, and the 8 problem they have now is on the old building, where we did 9 have a sprinkler system. When they went to turn it on, it 10 kind of came up through the middle of the parking lot that 11 they built. They didn't -- they busted it underneath that 12 new parking area, so all that's got to be repaired now. 13 Having to shut that off. As far as -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But that wasn't your fault, was it? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank goodness, no, it wasn't. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like the hoses and 17 sprinklers. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They've been out there the 19 last week working to clear off 3 inches of topsoil in the 20 back for a 200 -- about 220 foot square garden, that the 21 inmates -- I think that will help us. Rob and I visited a 22 little bit about inmate usage in there. It'll be just right 23 at an acre, little over an acre. I think that will help 24 issues with the jail population greatly, help us inside the 25 jail. Real quickly on the budget stuff, a couple things that 3-28-11 156 1 I'm going to bring, Jonathan, is on our control panel for the 2 jail that was in there in 1995 that controls all the doors, 3 we're having a lot of issues with that now, and you can't get 4 parts any more. The bid I have on that is similar to what 5 juvenile went to, and you're talking $50,000 for that, 6 49,000. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fifty. 49,000-something. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You better seize some stuff. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other issue that we 11 are going to have to look at, I think we need to be kind of 12 proactive, and it's the first set of Tahoes are 2007's. Some 13 of them have 70,000 miles, right at it, on them. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Here we go. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're going to have to, at 16 some point, start looking at getting back into a rotation 17 system, or else we're going to have everything coming up at 18 one time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the kind of thing -- 20 those are the type of things I also think we need to bring 21 up, is the big-ticket items that people -- you know, that 22 people see. Not that we're going to fund them, but so we're 23 aware they're out there. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we do have to do that. 25 I mean, we do have -- periodically have new equipment. 3-28-11 157 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have one more agenda 2 item? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 17. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know there's one more on 5 here, L.C.R.A. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's another hand up. 8 MS. HYDE: On the budget, since most of this is 9 coming back from my paperwork, I did get the staffing 10 information from the City that was requested. I've also 11 gotten everything that we can find from 2000, Commissioner 12 Letz, forward, on the Nash study. And we even went into the 13 God-forbidden land and went through boxes, and we found some 14 additional stuff, but I still don't think -- even with Cheryl 15 and Jannett's help, I still don't think we have it all. So, 16 I want that, like, on the record. I don't think we have it 17 all. But we can present what we have. And there's been a 18 lot of changes, as you're well aware, from what you guys 19 agreed to to where we've gotten to. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My -- what this is, I asked -- 21 MS. HYDE: Eva. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That person. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What's-her-name. 24 MS. HYDE: What's-her-name. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say our H.R. 3-28-11 158 1 Director. H.R. -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's Eva. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Need a name tag too. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That we did a -- for those that 5 don't know -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this guy's in charge. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A long, long time ago, about 8 2000, we did -- we commissioned, spent a bunch of money by 9 hiring a firm named the Nash firm to do a study and look at 10 all our job descriptions, and make sure everyone was adjusted 11 in pay accordingly. And since then, we've tinkered with it 12 every year, and now I'm sure that study is way out of whack, 13 but we need to -- I don't want to spend money on consultants 14 again, but we need to kind of look at it and see where we've 15 gotten out of whack. You know, what -- you know, what is a 16 supervisor? You know, define that. So, you know, we know 17 what's -- you know, different grades, we've done a lot of 18 changes, but at the same time, it was a good study when we 19 did it. It helped us, and it's a foundation for our current 20 pay structure. But we need to see if that -- if we've, you 21 know, gone too far awry, we ought to look at it, see if we 22 can make some corrections there. Some didn't like the Nash 23 study. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Other -- other elected officials or 25 department heads? Okay. At this time, we're going out of 3-28-11 159 1 public or open session -- it is 12:37 -- for the purpose of 2 going into executive or closed session. 3 (The open session was closed at 12:37 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 4 is contained in a separate document.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is 12:59, and we are now 7 in open or public session. Does any member of the Court have 8 any -- anything to offer in connection with matters 9 considered in closed or executive session? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think I do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that Kerr County join 13 with Kerrville, the City of Junction, and KPUB to be a party, 14 subject to funding by the other parties other than Kerr 15 County. And -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In the CREZ appeal the district 17 Court Of Travis County? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, I have a motion. 20 Do I hear a second? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think I'll second 22 that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 24 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 25 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3-28-11 160 1 (Commissioners Baldwin, Overby, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 3 (Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.) 4 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Anything 6 further to come before the Court today, gentlemen? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did I understand -- did I 8 understand there would be no funding? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. That's what 11 it says. That's what he said. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Subject to funding by the 13 other parties. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I thought you 15 said. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm fine with that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further to come before the 18 Court? We're adjourned. 19 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:01 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 22 23 24 25 3-28-11 161 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of April, 2011. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-28-11