1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, April 4, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X April 4, 2011 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2011-12 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto 3 5 --- Adjourned 83 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, April 4, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll now call to order the Kerr 8 County Commissioners Court workshop posted for this date and 9 time, Monday, April 4th, 2011, at 9 a.m. It's a bit past 10 that time now. The agenda item is to review and discuss 11 Fiscal Year 2011-12 budgets and fiscal capital expenditure 12 and personnel matters related thereto. I think one of the 13 first items that we had was to try and determine how many 14 true employees that we have, and how many that we have 15 payroll administration for that don't necessarily belong to 16 us -- payroll administration or benefits administration. 17 (Ms. Hyde handed out documents.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Can you see 19 that? 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, I can't. 21 MS. HYDE: This has several questions that y'all 22 asked. One was to try to differentiate between Kerr County 23 employees and outside payroll and benefits that we 24 administer. So, if y'all would please look it over -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eva, on the -- the bottom 4-4-11 bwk 4 1 section, are all of those in the -- I guess, in the same 2 category, or do they kind of vary a little bit? Such as 3 airport, our employees that we don't supervise, but 4 they're -- currently, they're true employees under our 5 system. Whereas D.P.S. -- actually, it's Extension. 6 Extension's the -- I've never figured that out. 7 MS. HYDE: Extension, currently we have two -- we 8 have two positions that are A & M Extension agents. Right 9 now, one is open. Those have nothing to do with us. We 10 don't pay them, we don't do benefits on them. They are 11 allowed to do supplementals like anybody else. And then 12 there are three employees that work there that -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They're fully funded by Kerr County. 14 MS. HYDE: They are fully funded by Kerr County, 15 but they do not report -- from what I understand -- I'm glad 16 I took some Tylenol. From what I understand, they don't 17 truly report to the Court, although they're employees. They 18 report to the Extension officers -- agents. And I think 19 that -- Judge, if I'm speaking out of turn -- there are even 20 times when you ask for information, and it is very slow 21 sometimes in getting back to you. So, if that's the case, 22 then -- then they aren't -- they're not really supervised -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Not truly in our chain of command. 24 MS. HYDE: True. Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, the Extension -- the two 4-4-11 bwk 5 1 Extension agents, one of which is Roy, correct? 2 MS. HYDE: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Their benefits, salary, 4 100 percent, all of that comes from the State? 5 MS. HYDE: From A & M. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From A & M. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But yet we fund part of their 8 budget. 9 MS. HYDE: Right. And -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They pay the salary. We fund 11 certain items -- 12 MS. HYDE: You give them vehicles. You give them 13 some mileage reimbursement, things like that. True? 14 MS. HARGIS: We also pay some of their salary. 15 MS. HYDE: Just a small portion. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What would you say that 17 percentage would be? 18 MS. HARGIS: It's around 16,000, I think. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much? 21 MS. HYDE: 16,000. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did she say 16? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And then just going down 24 the list so I can understand them all, D.P.S., the situation 25 is similar, that we don't have any supervisory 4-4-11 bwk 6 1 responsibility. We pay salary and benefits for an employee 2 that works at the D.P.S. office. 3 MS. HYDE: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Health officer -- 5 MS. HYDE: We don't have one right now. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Crime victims. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Grant-funded. 8 MS. HYDE: Grant-funded. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Grant-funded. Airport, two 10 employees that report to the Airport Manager from a 11 supervisory standpoint. 12 MS. HYDE: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But are listed as county 14 employees. 15 MS. HYDE: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are not one and one-half of 17 those carried on your budget? Or have we moved those 18 strictly over to the airport budget? 19 MR. ODOM: To the airport budget, I think. 20 MS. HYDE: No, sir, they've always been on the 21 airport's budget. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. ODOM: They're not on mine. 24 MS. HYDE: We never put them on Road and Bridge. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about doing 4-4-11 bwk 7 1 Maintenance; we talked about Road and Bridge, and they ended 2 up, I guess, where they are. The district judges, their 3 salary comes from the state, and their benefits come from the 4 state? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The judges, I believe, do. 7 MS. HYDE: The judges. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And we -- but we fund 9 their budgets, everything other than salary. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we share employee costs; 11 coordinators, clerks, that sort of thing. Well, a portion. 12 MS. HARGIS: We share those. Those are shared by 13 different counties that -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MS. HARGIS: Now, the judges do get supplements. 16 We get a small portion of that, but each judge gets a portion 17 from each county based on their supplement. They have a 18 required cap that they can use, so right now each judge is 19 getting $2,550 as a supplement. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MS. HARGIS: Plus the juvenile. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then Adult Probation. 23 They're -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Totally state funded. 25 MS. HYDE: Their pay is totally state-funded, and 4-4-11 bwk 8 1 they do their medical insurance. However, we do their 2 retirement, and we do the payroll itself and get reimbursed. 3 And then, of course, they have the supplementals. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happens, though, if they 5 -- if the Legislature cuts the funding, and we're supposed to 6 pick up the additional cost of Adult Probation? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the -- one of the 8 current proposals is to eliminate funding for misdemeanor 9 probation, as I understand it. 10 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be one of the funding 12 mechanisms that would be cut off. What proposal, then, the 13 Probation Department would bring forward to -- to cover that 14 shortfall, you know, lacking -- lacking another source, 15 they're going to be looking at us. No question about it. 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, there is one -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause it's our probation 18 department. 19 MS. HARGIS: One little problem with the Adult 20 Probation, they apparently went to talk to the -- to Judge 21 Brown, and they were going to reduce the fees on one side, 22 and -- on our side, and then increase probation fees. And I 23 said no, we can't do that, because basically we're borrowing 24 from Peter to pay Paul. I haven't had a chance to talk to 25 them. They came by to see me on Friday. 4-4-11 bwk 9 1 MR. HENNEKE: I mean, the Adult Probation, in 2 looking at it, from what I understand, misdemeanor adult 3 probation receives about 70 percent of their income from 4 collection of probation fees. Right now, for adult 5 misdemeanor probation fees, they're assessed at $40 a month, 6 and the cap is at $60 per month. And so Adult Probation has 7 been visiting with increasing their -- having Judge Brown and 8 County Court at Law increase the probation fee from 40 to 60, 9 and I've told them I don't have any objection to that. Given 10 that such a large percent of their budget already comes from 11 probation fees, I'm hopeful that them going from 40 to 60 12 will give them a big -- big bump that won't come out of the 13 Kerr County general revenue. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You say 80 percent now of their -- 15 MR. HENNEKE: Seventy is what I was told by their 16 probation chief. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. HENNEKE: I haven't asked for those numbers 19 separately, but that's what they advised. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if you increase from 40 to 60, 21 you're talking about a 50 percent increase, which should get 22 you through -- 23 MR. HENNEKE: Could -- should. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- this period? 25 MR. HENNEKE: Now, felonies are already at 60. And 4-4-11 bwk 10 1 when they -- I wasn't clear when I visited with them if the 2 70 -- the 70 percent of their budget encompassed all fees 3 that they collect, whether it's felonies or misdemeanors. 4 But, certainly, going from -- misdemeanors, given the volume 5 that we handle every year, going from 40 to 60, I think, 6 should have a meaningful impact on their budget. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me give you a scenario 8 that -- 9 MS. HARGIS: They should lose about $110,000 worth 10 of grant money from the state. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Grant money or fee money? 12 MS. HARGIS: It's grant money. It's the amount the 13 state gives them to supplement, and so about 110 of that will 14 go away. Most of their grant -- other grants, the smaller 15 grant funds are in place and won't be reduced. They're 16 fairly small; they don't amount to very much, but those will 17 be okay. But the main amount of grant money that supplements 18 their main general fund will be about 110,000 less. So, this 19 scenario should work, but I just want to be sure, because 20 what was explained to me -- may be wrong -- is that he was 21 going to reduce one side and raise the other side. We can't 22 do that. I mean, I don't mind them doing the raising of the 23 fees on their side, but we don't reduce the fees on ours as a 24 trade-off, 'cause that won't work. But they should be okay 25 with the increase of those fees to be able to substantiate. 4-4-11 bwk 11 1 They also have -- they're going to do some other stuff to 2 reorganize their department as well, so I don't think they're 3 coming to ask for any additional funds for that right now. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But the only proposal on the table 5 now in Austin is to eliminate state participation in 6 misdemeanor probation? 7 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what happens to that? 10 Are we going to have to pick that up? 11 MR. HENNEKE: Well, that's the $110,000 -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the 110? 13 MR. HENNEKE: -- that they're talking about, would 14 be the moneys that they receive to subsidize -- it's one 15 department here in Kerr County. And you have the same 16 probation officers supervise felony probationers as you do 17 misdemeanor probationers, but I guess their revenue source 18 comes from different line items. So, when they're talking 19 about cutting misdemeanor, they're looking at a total cut to 20 their overall budget that they project to be about 110,000, 21 115,000. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. And they've already -- for 23 instance, they -- about two years ago, they gave them what 24 they call the Rider 80, which was a supplement to the 25 officers to keep them level in their positions. They've 4-4-11 bwk 12 1 taken that away from them. They've already announced to 2 their employees that that's gone as of the end of April. So, 3 that -- that particular -- and then they're reorganizing 4 themselves. The information that's been provided to me as of 5 today is that they aren't going to ask for any money; they 6 just have to reorganize their whole department to accommodate 7 the loss. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, we're not going to be 9 obligated to pay any shortfalls of Adult Probation? 10 MS. HARGIS: I can't guarantee anything. But right 11 now, I think they're trying not to ask anything right now. I 12 mean, I would have to have them come in and actually stand in 13 front of you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Current indications are they're 15 going to try and figure out a way to cover it themselves? 16 MS. HARGIS: They're going to re -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Current indications? 18 MS. HARGIS: They're going to readjust totally, 19 just like what we're doing with any other department; 20 reorganizing, making sure that they -- they make sure their 21 budget aligns with what they've done in the past. And I 22 think they're going to see, in Adult Probation, a continued 23 decrease of state aid over a period of time. And I think, 24 you know, we'll have to get ready for that. I can't tell you 25 what that's going to be today. But right now, for the 4-4-11 bwk 13 1 biennium, for the next two years coming up, it's probably 2 where they're going to be. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not suggesting that the state 4 of Texas is going to balance their budget off the backs of 5 local governments, are you, Ms. Hargis? 6 MS. HARGIS: I'm not going to answer that question. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll make that -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me answer it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll guarantee you, they're going to 10 try and do it. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you had a comment or 13 question? 14 MS. UECKER: Yeah. Just consider that if they do 15 raise their probation fees to 60 instead of 40, what we 16 noticed when it happened on the felonies is that probation 17 fees is a priority, so court costs -- payment of court costs 18 was reduced, and fines. It fell. 19 MR. HENNEKE: Well, court costs is mandated by the 20 state as far as the specific amount we've got to collect per 21 case. 22 MS. UECKER: Well, I'm not talking about that. I'm 23 talking about what they're actually paying, because the 24 priority of the collect -- that they collect is the probation 25 fee. That comes out first. So, $20 a month to some of these 4-4-11 bwk 14 1 folks is quite a bit, and they're not going to be able to pay 2 the court costs and fines. So, I'm just saying be aware that 3 that could reduce the income on court costs and fines. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You've always got the collectibility 5 issue, particularly in these times. Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It could also increase your 7 jail numbers. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will increase my jail 9 numbers drastically, which at that point it normally cuts off 10 all those fees, period, 'cause they just sit in jail and are 11 not paying any of it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where the problem is 13 right there. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because a lot of the -- a lot 15 of those people have both felonies and misdemeanor charges, 16 and they can't pay them in both. They -- they end up in jail 17 for nonpayment. 18 MS. UECKER: That's just -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: They'll be working on that garden. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be working a lot in that 21 garden, but that garden's not going to make this county 22 money. (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It will get them out -- it will get 24 them out of your jail quicker. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: While we're talking about 4-4-11 bwk 15 1 adult, how does juvenile -- what kind of effects are we 2 seeing in that? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The Juvenile Probation Department, 4 they're talking about cutting out a number of the state 5 programs -- gee, does that surprise you? -- to leave more and 6 more of the burden on the county, as you might imagine. 7 Fortunately, for this current budget year, we are seeing a 8 decrease in -- in the cases. We've seen this decline since 9 2009. It peaked in 2009, and this past year the Juvenile 10 Probation Department budget decreased. There's indications 11 that even with the decrease, we may be able to get a slight 12 reduction in it this year. Don't know. Depends on how much 13 the state cuts out. Early indications, Ms. Hargis, are 60 to 14 80, as I recall? 15 MS. HARGIS: Somewhere in there. It just depends 16 on -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Again, state -- state money. 18 They're balancing it off of our backs. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The reason -- the reason for 20 my question, though, you know, does the state law right now 21 require staffing levels to be at a certain number for each 22 one of those departments, or can those numbers be adjusted if 23 we start seeing an increase in our -- what we'd have to 24 contribute to it? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Staffing levels are mandated by the 4-4-11 bwk 16 1 number of probationers you have under supervision. Yes, they 2 do mandate staffing levels. Just like at the detention 3 facility, there are staffing levels; just like at the jail 4 there are staffing levels, mandates that are currently in 5 place from Commission on Jail Standards, -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One to 48. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Juvenile Probation Commission. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just -- you know, 9 that's just a way that -- that, you know, if the money 10 doesn't come in through fees and things, that is definitely 11 an unfunded mandate, if they -- if they mandate what your 12 staffing levels will be and you got no wiggle room at all to 13 adjust that to a level, you know, that you can afford in your 14 budget. They don't care about whether you can afford it or 15 not. Just do it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They make -- they make us gifts 19 periodically in Austin, and -- and we get to suffer the ill 20 effects of it. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think the new gifts 22 are going to be coming with a big, red bow around them. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I got a question for 24 Ms. Hyde about -- about your list here. What about what we 25 commonly call our Friday court out at the jail? There's a -- 4-4-11 bwk 17 1 there's a sitting district judge there, there's a prosecutor, 2 and there is a defense attorney. And I can't remember -- 3 remember how we pay that person, but we do pay the district 4 judge and the prosecutor. Where are they in here? 5 MS. HYDE: They come out of direct payables or 6 A.P.'s. They don't come out of payroll. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 MS. HYDE: So I don't see that. But you're 9 correct; it hits those budget line items, and you get to see 10 them on those bills -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. HYDE: -- that you -- you request backup on. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Thank you for 14 your explanation. 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we ever need to go 17 out there and visit with them, I'd be happy to visit with the 18 defense attorney and the prosecutor. But Judge Barton, I'll 19 talk bluegrass music, banjos with, but his courtroom, no. 20 All right. 21 MS. HYDE: The last column, net plus or minus. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. HYDE: That was the request of you three on my 24 right. So, currently we have the County Clerk, down one. As 25 of today -- now there's a floater, so -- but as of today, the 4-4-11 bwk 18 1 Sheriff is down six positions, and he has maintained three to 2 five, just F.Y.I. Animal Control is down a half. H.R. is 3 still down a half. You guys keep asking me to do without, so 4 I have. And then known retirements, we have one elected and 5 three hourly. So, the elected is not counted into that 6 number, because you guys have to replace that person. But we 7 also have three known retirements in the next 60 days. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are -- so these -- those 9 numbers will go up further. I mean, it will be redistributed 10 up into the department that we're hiring from, correct? 11 MS. HYDE: Right, once the retirement hits. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're down, you say, five at 13 the Sheriff? 14 MS. HYDE: Six. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm just saying he's 16 going to add some back. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. It -- I'm trying to 18 keep it at five till budget time and see where we are. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, six up there -- six, 20 seven -- so we're down 10. 21 MS. HYDE: If you're going to change them down to 22 five, yes, sir. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, one of the retirements is 24 out of my office that I will have to refill, so that -- that 25 one will still -- but I plan on staying at five short until 4-4-11 bwk 19 1 y'all work out the budget. I'd agreed last year to two. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that puts us pretty much on 3 track. 4 MS. HYDE: For this year, we were trying to use 5 attrition and just -- without laying off anyone or getting 6 rid of anyone. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. HYDE: And I think that these numbers -- if we 9 maintain the objective of the Court, I think that you will 10 probably see these numbers are very similar on an annual 11 basis, especially down here on retirement. I think those 12 numbers are going to start going up. We have some mature 13 adolescents that will probably be looking at retirement. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What percentage? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, are we going to let her talk 16 to you like that? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm curious. What is the 18 percentage of folks that we have that are employees -- and 19 you may not know this, but that fall in that category that 20 are in retirement years? 21 MS. HYDE: We have 33 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 33 percent currently that are 23 retirement age? 24 MS. HYDE: (Nodded.) The only other question that 25 I -- I am going to ask y'all, just to make sure, because 4-4-11 bwk 20 1 elected officials are not true employees. I mean, y'all have 2 told me that multiple, multiple times. So, rather than play 3 games, I just left y'all in there. You are part of what I 4 consider Kerr County employees. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm honored. 6 MS. HYDE: Well, I just -- I mean, it just makes -- 7 it's playing semantics, to me. So, we have 246 true-blue 8 Kerr County employees, and then we have 65 and a half that 9 are outside pay and benefits of some sort that we administer 10 for. So, that -- I just wanted to make sure that there isn't 11 anyone that y'all would like to move up or down, or do you 12 feel like this is pretty accurate at this point? So that 13 when I'm -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we have to take your 15 word for it that it's accurate. 16 MS. HYDE: I'm talking about the actual -- on the 17 left column sir, that this is where we want to put them, 18 where they're -- where they're either outside payroll and 19 benefits, and then the rest of them are Kerr County 20 employees. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were trying to figure out 23 what "O.S." stood for. I just heard it. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Outside. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Outside. 4-4-11 bwk 21 1 MS. HYDE: I'm afraid to ask what you thought it 2 was. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm not going to 4 comment on that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you think? Tell me 6 so I'll know. 7 MS. HYDE: I'll tell you afterwards. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. 9 MS. HYDE: But if this meets with y'all's approval, 10 then through the next six months, this is what I'll use. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see any reason not to 12 use it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I agree. I do have a 14 question, though. At some point -- and we can do this in 15 private as well. I'm obviously going to be the only one that 16 doesn't understand it completely, or would like to be brought 17 up to snuff on it, but if you would tell me the pros and cons 18 of -- of employees being exempt? 19 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, you don't have to do 21 that today, but if you don't pretty soon, then I'm going to 22 bring it back up in the budget process, to see how that 23 affects everything. 24 MS. HYDE: Would y'all like to have a workshop on 25 exempt? It's mandated by quite a bit of legal eagles. 4-4-11 bwk 22 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see a complete 2 workshop. I mean, we can fit it in -- 3 MS. HYDE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- one of our other -- 5 MS. HYDE: How about if I work with you to modulate 6 it, so then it can be presented at the court? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you work with me 8 so we can modulate it and put it inside the court? 9 MS. HYDE: Sounds like a winner. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got to -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Great idea, Commissioner. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got to do all the 13 thinking too, obviously. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems, looking at that lower 15 list, I mean, the airport, I see that changing next year 16 because of the City wanting to fund part of that. I think 17 that that total cost gets put over onto the airport and then 18 split, so I think that's a little bit different. And I think 19 -- and there's been -- Rob isn't here, but there's been some, 20 I guess, discussions that was started by the City as to -- 21 and I think you had some too about the supervision and who's 22 liable for things that happen with those employees. 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And all that. I think that 25 needs to all be looked at a little bit differently this year, 4-4-11 bwk 23 1 because I think that it's -- it is better to have them become 2 airport employees, not Kerr County employees. And even 3 though we may administer it, I don't -- the full cost should 4 be shifted, budget-wise, in my mind. And that's mainly 5 because the City wants to change the way we do things out 6 there a little bit. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me ask you about 8 that. What -- now, when we start talking serious about these 9 issues, are we sure that we want to participate with the City 10 in the way that they proposed? As far as -- I don't. See, 11 but I'm just one. Do we need to go -- go down the list of 12 those things that we do with the city and get a vote by vote 13 by vote? I mean, I don't want -- I don't want the public to 14 think that I have anything to do with that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think the way 16 it's working right now is a better way to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But either way, I think from 19 the employee standpoint, because of some other legal issues 20 and all, that it's probably better for them to become airport 21 employees, whether we fund it 100 percent the way it is right 22 now or not. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. I agree 25 with that. But you referred to the City getting involved -- 4-4-11 bwk 24 1 getting back involved in it, and I'm -- I'm thinking, do we 2 need to finalize our thinking in that before we get too far 3 down the road? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably. So, I think it 5 probably should be an agenda item, because I think we've -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I'm not understanding your -- 7 define "finalize our thinking." 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like, we have -- we have an 9 ambulance. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And EMS, those contracts and 12 those agreements. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm speaking strictly about the 14 airport. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm getting to the 16 airport, airport being one of those that we deal with the 17 City. And, -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- you know, I mean, my 20 memory says that suddenly the City has found a couple of 21 hundred thousand dollars that they want to invest into the 22 airport, which sounds pretty good up front. But the more I 23 think about it, the more I dislike that. You know, why don't 24 they apply that to -- give it back to the taxpayers or 25 something? 4-4-11 bwk 25 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or give it to the library. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give it to the library. 3 That airport seems to be working just fine. Let's don't get 4 our nose under the tent here too far. That's -- it's just 5 the way I think. And I would prefer -- I would prefer having 6 an up and down vote on that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'd like to get all of those 8 agreements finalized shortly. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and voted on 10 individually. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm 13 saying. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And hopefully approved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you were going to the 17 issue about if we -- talking solely about funding the 18 airport, and the City's expression that they don't want any 19 trade-offs of quid pro quos, and since we jointly own the 20 airport, that we should each fund one-half of the maintenance 21 and operation cost. I got no problem with that concept. 22 Now, if the effort is, rather, one to exert some methodology, 23 direct or indirect control over the Airport Board, I'm not in 24 favor of that at all. Airport Board's working just fine 25 operating that airport. We need to leave them alone and just 4-4-11 bwk 26 1 give them the money to operate. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But if there's an effort made as 4 part of the funding mechanism to come in and exert some sort 5 of control over how that -- how that board administers that 6 airport, I'm not in favor of that at all. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Neither am I. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- my -- the County 9 Attorney's not here, but I believe the County Attorney and 10 the City Attorney have been working a little bit on an 11 agreement, draft agreement. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I know that the City Council 13 apparently went into executive session to consider all these 14 contracts that we -- we approved and sent over to them, and 15 in open session they authorized a, quote, counteroffer, 16 whatever that was -- they don't explain it, to my 17 knowledge -- on the airport agreement. I've not seen it, so 18 I don't -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I haven't seen any of that 20 stuff. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, we -- we've got some 22 recent instances with regard to environmental matters. They 23 may want us to rethink our approval of the environmental 24 agreement by which we -- we absorb all of that cost. If we 25 truly want to abide by the city rationale of no -- no 4-4-11 bwk 27 1 trade-offs, no quid pro quos, we may want to think about 2 reworking the animal control, and whatever portion of that 3 animal control function is properly theirs, let them pay for 4 it. No quid pro quo. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I'm -- that's 6 what I'm talking about. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, if we're going to talk about 8 adjusting based upon what the other contracts are, that's a 9 different story. They said they don't want to do that, so -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think something you 11 mentioned, and I just want to touch on briefly, is that the 12 City had gone the into executive session to discuss these 13 contracts, which is leaving us and the public in the dark, 14 because we've done all of our discussions in open session. 15 And when the City goes into closed session, it's truly in the 16 dark, and it's not open like we both agreed at our first 17 meeting, and doing this before the public. Because we're at 18 a loss; we don't really -- I don't know where the City is on 19 most of the contracts because they did it in closed session. 20 But, you know -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they have not forwarded 22 it over. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I've not seen anything. If there's 24 anything that's come in, it's been since the weekend, when I 25 went through all of my accumulated papers. Sheriff? 4-4-11 bwk 28 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing I ought to mention 2 is that -- I mentioned it to Buster this morning. I heard 3 this morning that there was an e-mail that went out this 4 weekend that the City Manager has requested a meeting with 5 KARFA. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: With who? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: KARFA, volunteer fire 8 department organization. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, I got that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what that has to do 11 with the airport contract, but -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's all your contracts 13 you're talking about, and where they are with the fire 14 contract. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be interesting to see what 16 the City Manager has to do with KARFA. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But going back to H.R., looking 18 down on the bottom, we talked about airport a little bit just 19 then. D.P.S. is one that we talked about a lot, and we have 20 a representative from D.P.S. present who I'd like to hear 21 from, if you'd like, anyway, as to what this person does and 22 why we should -- why it's a benefit to the county. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There's nothing like being put on 24 the spot, is there, Keith? 25 MR. OLIVE: I've been shot at before. Not a big 4-4-11 bwk 29 1 deal. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's Monday. 3 MR. OLIVE: Duck and cover. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Keith Olive with D.P.S. 5 MR. OLIVE: Yes, I'm sorry. Keith Olive; I'm with 6 D.P.S. And the County has graciously supplied us with a 7 secretary for a number of years. I've been here a total of 8 16 years. There's been one ever since I've been here. The 9 purpose for that was to allow our officers to maintain time 10 on the street and in doing what we're doing, enforcing the 11 traffic laws, which the county benefits greatly from. And I 12 read the minutes of one of the county commissioners' 13 meetings; they talked about they get a small portion of the 14 fines. And that's -- that small portion -- I'll just use two 15 courts -- in the month of January was over $50,000. So, I 16 think a "small" portion is a little understatement. But the 17 answer to your question is -- is to keep the officers on the 18 road. If we have to come in -- and the County Attorney's not 19 here, somebody mentioned, but if we have to come in and copy 20 videos for an arrest that we made, that's one, two hours off 21 the road for every arrest. That's something the secretary 22 does. She handles all our correspondence, whether it be 23 through the courts, through our chain of command -- and I'm 24 talking about D.P.S. chain of command -- or with individuals, 25 if we're having to do some kind of mail-outs or something 4-4-11 bwk 30 1 like that. The goal is to keep us on the road as much as we 2 can, so we're not sitting in an office. And, inadvertently, 3 it pays Kerr County to do so, because, as I said, two courts 4 in Kerr County paid her salary within one month, and that 5 doesn't even count the other two courts. So, anything else 6 that comes up, you know, that's 11 months that you're making 7 money. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What percentage do we get to 9 keep of that, that we don't send to the state? 10 MR. OLIVE: That varies by ticket, and that's 11 probably a question for the J.P.'s that they can answer. I 12 know there's -- there's certain citations that a portion of 13 that money goes here and a portion of that money goes here, 14 and it's broken up. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're getting less of that 16 all the time, 'cause we're the collection agent for the 17 state. 18 MR. OLIVE: I'm not -- not going to argue that 19 point with you. And, you know, I guess as one of the few 20 state employees standing here, I heard that and kind of 21 ducked behind my chair. But, you know, I can't answer for 22 the Legislature by any means whatsoever. Bottom line is, 23 it's still -- you might collect a little bit less, but for 24 the money you're investing, you're still making a lot more 25 than you're having to invest. 4-4-11 bwk 31 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be interesting to know what 2 that total amount is that we get. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it generally varies. 4 MS. UECKER: I can give you -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Mitchell, roughly what does it 6 average? What percentage? 7 JUDGE MITCHELL: I think Mindy and I figured it up 8 one time. It was like we collect between 60 and 70 percent. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That we retain? 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: That we retain. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Keith, I'm certainly not 12 asking you to answer for the Legislature. They don't even 13 answer to themselves. 14 MR. OLIVE: And I don't -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know why I would expect you 16 to -- 17 MR. OLIVE: Hey, we're fighting with them too. I'm 18 looking at three days furlough now, all kinds of stuff that 19 they're talking about doing to us. So, like I said, the 20 bottom line is -- is to keep our guys out on the road. If we 21 lose a secretary, I would hazard a guess as to how much 22 revenue the county would lose, because we're going to have to 23 spend more time in the office, and that's just the way it 24 goes. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if you get furloughed, 4-4-11 bwk 32 1 it's even going to be less. 2 MR. OLIVE: Yeah. I'll be out -- I'll be out in 3 west Kerr County building a fence or something. I don't 4 know. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, one of the complaints I 7 hear is that the -- when you get your pile of tickets, 8 instead of that secretary entering it into the computer 9 system, which I understand that we've also provided over 10 there, that -- that J.P.'s and everybody can be plugged into 11 what she enters or not enters, she doesn't enter that stuff, 12 so we go over there physically and get all the tickets and 13 bring them back over here, and then we enter them. Is 14 that -- do you think that there's some truth to that? Or -- 15 MR. OLIVE: Oh, I know that that's true. Now, I 16 don't know -- we have a system to where we can go and we can 17 look up certain things. And I don't know if it's a case of 18 administrative privileges as to, you know, being able to look 19 at something versus being able to enter something, and I'm 20 sure that's something that could probably be worked out. If 21 -- you know, if it would ease the time on the court clerks to 22 have her enter some of the tickets, you know, if that's an 23 assignment that y'all -- if they -- whoever wants to give 24 her, then that's something that she'll take on. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's been talked 4-4-11 bwk 33 1 about several times. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a major -- major item 3 of discussion, according to what I've heard. And the 4 Commissioners indicated that -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we can try again. 6 MR. OLIVE: Well, like I said, I know that we have 7 the access to look at the county system. I don't know that 8 she has access to actually be administrator and enter things. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Keith, how many people -- 10 MR. TROLINGER: I just need the word from the J.P. 11 offices that they want that access granted, and it's just a 12 couple of clicks on the computer. It's not a -- there's no 13 technical problem with it. It's just access rights that have 14 to be granted. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That would allow her to input the 16 information? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And I'd like to add, the 18 J.P.'s have started scanning all their citations, which is 19 greatly efficient, and there's some of them that are scanning 20 all their cases into the system. And if we can get that 21 interaction, maybe we can get a scanner over there if you do 22 start inputting, and that's going to really smooth things 23 out. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think both things would be 25 extremely helpful, John. I don't know that you need this 4-4-11 bwk 34 1 Court's direction to give access to those folks, do you? 2 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, just the offices to say. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Keith, how many folks is she 5 assisting in your department? Officers, I mean, as far as 6 helping with that, logging that information or whatever she's 7 doing. How many are in your department that she's assisting 8 with? 9 MR. OLIVE: We have a sergeant stationed here, six 10 highway patrol, and one C.V. trooper. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. OLIVE: Now, like this weekend -- and if you're 13 talking about, like -- if we're to take on that job of 14 putting those -- we had a -- there was a motorcycle rally in 15 Bandera. We brought a total of 10 extra troopers into Kerr 16 and Bandera County -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 18 MR. OLIVE: -- to try and cut down. And we tried, 19 but we still had four motorcycle wrecks. But, you know, we 20 had a pile of tickets, six DWI arrests. I can't tell you 21 what was Bandera and what was Kerr County; I just looked at 22 the stat sheet. But there's times -- I'll give everybody a 23 heads-up; this week we're going to have a little task force 24 here in Kerr County. Watch out on I-10; we're going to be 25 out there working, bringing in a total of 10 troopers, day 4-4-11 bwk 35 1 and night shift. 2 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 3 MR. OLIVE: Set the cruise; that's all I can tell 4 you. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A little inside information. 6 We appreciate that. 7 MR. OLIVE: Yeah. But -- but there's times that we 8 do these task forces, we'll have additional personnel come 9 in, and she receives that -- that through the tickets and 10 stuff that come in. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Got you. Thank you. 12 MS. UECKER: If they can catch us because of the 13 wire barrier. 14 MR. OLIVE: Oh. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That will be on both sides. 16 MR. OLIVE: Don't get me started on that one. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only issue I have -- I 19 know she does a lot of things for some of the other counties 20 in this area too. Do any of those counties participate in 21 the funding? 22 MR. OLIVE: Actually, she doesn't, because when we 23 changed -- we changed our sergeant area. It used to be 24 Kendall, Kimble, and Kerr. We changed to Kerr and Bandera. 25 Bandera has a part-time secretary down there that takes care 4-4-11 bwk 36 1 of those for the guys down there. So, she's really -- other 2 than, like, you know, -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. OLIVE: -- typing up a stat sheet for the 5 combined sergeant area, really, her general duties are 6 nothing but for the Kerr County guys. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Question, while we've got you 8 standing there. Let's talk about that magic wire. Has that 9 been effective in preventing cross-overs and head-ons? 10 MR. OLIVE: You know, the only answer I can give to 11 that would probably be yes. The problem I had -- and, you 12 know, again, I have to be careful, because I do work for the 13 state of Texas, and the idea behind it was good. I can't 14 argue with that. In the 15 years that I've been here before 15 they put that up, we had not had one single unintentional 16 crossover fatality. We had had a crossover fatality where it 17 was an intentional crossover; they went through what is now 18 an emergency crossover, and it caused a fatality. We have 19 seen an increase in crashes. We've seen an increase in 20 injury wrecks, because before, if somebody slid off the road, 21 slid into the median and, you know, came to a stop and was 22 shook up, or changed a tire and they went on, now we have a 23 crash. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Into the barrier? 25 MR. OLIVE: Into the barrier. And some of those 4-4-11 bwk 37 1 have, by default, created injuries that we wouldn't have had 2 before. So, it's -- you know, a seat belt creates injuries 3 too, but it does save lives. So, I guess under certain 4 circumstances, it's done what it was designed to do, but we 5 have -- it has had some negative drawbacks, to us especially. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand the enforcement 7 thing has made it extremely difficult for you. 8 MR. OLIVE: Well, not only that, but it's also 9 given people the idea that, hey, we can go faster 'cause they 10 can't get us. And so -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the record reflect, that was 12 referring to our H.R. Director. 13 MR. OLIVE: So, we've seen some of our -- and they 14 increased the speed limit to 80, so that didn't help us 15 either. 16 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's helpful. Thank you. 18 MR. OLIVE: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. 20 MR. OLIVE: All 10 guys are getting pictures of 21 your car. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Hyde? 23 MS. HYDE: Thanks. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me broach the subject 25 that maybe nobody wants to broach, but I think we need to 4-4-11 bwk 38 1 broach it right up front. Do we have any preliminary numbers 2 on the C.P.I. or other indexes dealing with personnel 3 compensation since these county employees last received any 4 increase, based on any of those indexes? I gather the answer 5 is yes? 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Judge, you asked for it; you 7 got it. Toyota. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What you've shown me is the C.P.I. 9 table as maintained by, I guess, Department of Labor? 10 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Indicating that since the last 12 increase based upon cost-of-living, it's increased by, oh, 13 six and a quarter percent; is that correct? 14 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that an actual number, or 17 is that a proposed number? 18 MS. HYDE: No, sir, that's an actual number. If 19 you look in the middle box, the base period was 204.813. The 20 current index is 217. C.P.I. is not based upon just a plus 21 or minus; it's a divisor, so it's current divided by base 22 minus one, and that's why it's 6.21 percent. And that is as 23 of February 15th. Keep in mind that it is at least 30 days 24 behind, and all indications are this is going to continue to 25 rise. 4-4-11 bwk 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Major increase in fuel costs. 2 MS. HYDE: Major increase in fuel, major increase 3 in groceries. Anything petroleum, as was outlined by Leonard 4 Odom less than a week ago when he got his bids. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 6 MS. HYDE: So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- why is the base 8 period December 2008? 9 MS. HYDE: Because that's the last time that we 10 instituted a C.P.I. for the employees. The 1.5 that you all 11 approved for six months was not a C.P.I. You, in the 12 minutes, called it an "increase," period. Not C.P.I., not 13 COLA. Straight increase. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So why doesn't that count for 15 the same? 16 MS. HYDE: Because this is the straight C.P.I. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's -- so the -- I guess 18 from December 2008, the -- not counting the steps and all 19 that other, you know, type of increases, the -- it's 6.21 20 minus 1.5? 21 MS. HYDE: If that -- well, no, sir, because you 22 didn't give them 1.5 for a year. If you're going to do it 23 that way, then you need to only do .75. If you're going to 24 extrapolate that out for a year. I mean, I'm going to -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- 4-4-11 bwk 40 1 MS. HYDE: I mean, you only gave 1.5 for six 2 months. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we didn't -- I don't -- so 4 we lowered it after six months? We lowered the pay? 5 MS. HYDE: No, you didn't give them anything the 6 first six months of the year. And that 1.5 was based upon 7 whether or not there was going to be money in the budget, so 8 that was not even a given, not until y'all said, "Yep, we're 9 going to do it." 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was still a 1.5 percent 11 increase that carried forward to future years. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There was also almost a 13 13 percent increase two years ago. 14 MS. HYDE: No, sir, it was in 2007-2008 budget 15 year. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's when the -- 17 MS. HYDE: And that 12.881 was not an increase as 18 far as -- I mean, I wasn't planning on going into this today, 19 but I'm glad that I went ahead and took my Tylenol. The 20 12.881 that we gave employees was to bring them below the 21 minimum that we have in this area. You all didn't want to 22 look outside. You didn't want to look at the bigger counties 23 or the smaller counties; it was just right here, because our 24 people were not making the money that the local folks were 25 making. And we said at that point, we hadn't given C.P.I.'s; 4-4-11 bwk 41 1 we hadn't kept up with what was going on in the area, and we 2 weren't going to do that again. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- I mean, I agree on that 4 big increase. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree partially, but I 6 don't agree totally. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I still -- I mean, so I'm 8 still back to my -- whether it's a .75 increase we gave or a 9 one and a half percent increase. 10 MS. HARGIS: Well, are you -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Point -- just a .75? 12 MS. HARGIS: 'Cause that's all they got. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still taking it off of the 14 total. I mean -- 15 MS. HYDE: I didn't take anything off of this 16 total. I was asked for the C.P.I. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. And you went back from 18 the last C.P.I. -- 19 MS. HYDE: That we gave. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we gave a percent and a 21 half increase that's not -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: C.P.I. related. 23 MS. HYDE: It's not C.P.I. related. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Not C.P.I. related. 25 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 4-4-11 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, see, I don't agree that 2 it's not related. Whenever you give an increase, it reflects 3 somewhat on the C.P.I. It should be deducted from it, 4 anyway. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's like saying, "Well, 7 I'll give you a 10 percent raise, but it doesn't affect your 8 C.P.I. 9 MS. HYDE: I was asked for the C.P.I., and that's 10 what I gave. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but you've got to make 12 it reflect both ways. It can't just do one way. 13 MS. HYDE: But there's five of y'all and just one 14 of me, and so when you guys direct me, then I'll do 15 something. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just think you have 17 to -- you have to take into consideration all the things that 18 go with that, and what was done in the past. 19 MS. HYDE: Well, then we also need to take into 20 consideration that we took away benefits from employees. If 21 we're going to look at -- if we're going to look at apples 22 and apples, let's look at apples and apples. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's just be fair; that's 24 all I ask. 25 MS. HYDE: We had an H.R.A. card with a $1,000 4-4-11 bwk 43 1 deductible. The County gave each employee $600, plus they 2 got another $600 for spouse, plus they got another $600 for 3 child or children, up to $1,800 that was able to be carried 4 over for three years. For a single person, $600 times three 5 was $1,800. For family or child or spouse, that was up to 6 $3,200 that could be carried over. So, simple Texas math. 7 Simple Texas math; you give them 600, they have to pay 400 to 8 get their 1,000. That's less than .01 percent hitting them 9 against their payroll. Fortunately, or unfortunately, this 10 year we have a $3,000 deductible. For most employees, it 11 costs them zero for the insurance, but if you take that same 12 $3,000 with no H.R.A. reimbursement, and you take it against 13 a $32,000 average employee take -- take it home, that's 9 14 percent. So, I didn't -- I didn't start adding/subtracting, 15 because I knew we'd start having these type of discussions. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 MS. HYDE: All I wanted to do was have the C.P.I., 18 but since it's been brought up, I would rather take the 1.5 19 away from the 9 percent that they've lost, in addition to 20 this 6.25, respectfully. 21 MS. PIEPER: Amen. 22 (Applause.) 23 MS. HYDE: I was not prepared to discuss this 24 today. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, baloney. 4-4-11 bwk 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. HYDE: But I'll show it to you any way y'all 3 want it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I was just concerned -- 5 I was just confused by the -- the date, 'cause I thought we'd 6 given an increase since then. And you answered the question. 7 Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Got more information than you 9 wanted? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's about what I -- I 11 recall most of that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, we hear about tough 13 economic times, and we got the State over there that's 14 sacrificing everybody but themselves; primarily those that 15 either don't vote, can't vote, don't know how to vote, won't 16 vote, that are being thrown under the bus. Don't see any 17 legislators getting run over by buses. Probably never will. 18 But I want to put everybody on notice right now that I am not 19 going to support us balancing our budget off the backs of our 20 employees, whose ability to support themselves and their 21 families have continually eroded. I'm looking at these 22 firefighter numbers from the City of Kerrville; average 23 per-employee increase in five years, 76 percent. That's 12 24 and two-thirds percent a year. We're getting those costs 25 thrown at us. Is it right for us to dump those back on our 4-4-11 bwk 45 1 employees and say, gee, we're having to engage in a game of 2 being extorted, in essence, for the benefit of other local 3 government employees, and we want you to carry that burden? 4 That's the wrong answer, folks. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very wrong. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That is the wrong answer. Our 7 employees deserve to be compensated fairly. They've lost 8 purchasing power. They've lost the ability to support their 9 families. Some of them have been transitioned out of their 10 jobs. It's just flat not fair to ask our employees to be the 11 instruments by which we balance our budget. We've done it 12 too much, too often, and it needs to absolutely stop. They 13 need to be paid fairly. They need to be paid a comparable 14 wage to other local government employees. They lost $2,400 15 effectively when we flipped over our health benefits plan. 16 That's just like cutting their pay $2,400. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, of course, those that don't 19 have any health problem, it didn't affect them, not that 20 much. But it's -- I'm just putting you on notice, gentlemen. 21 I'm not going to support any effort to try and balance our 22 budget off the backs of our employees. We don't need to do 23 that. We shouldn't do it. It's not the right thing to do. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I'll make a comment. I 25 mean, I don't disagree with what you're saying. And I've had 4-4-11 bwk 46 1 a number of people on the fire and EMS issue say, "Just raise 2 taxes." The problem with raising taxes is, most of the 3 people asking us to raise taxes -- or asking me to raise 4 taxes aren't paying any increased taxes if we raise them 5 'cause of the property tax freeze. 6 MS. HYDE: That's right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only people that get hit 8 are the working people that are paying the taxes to start 9 with, so -- everyone else is frozen. So, I mean, I think 10 it's a -- you know, it's a problem. Just raising taxes, to 11 me, is not the solution. I totally agree that our employees 12 should -- especially when we look at what the City of 13 Kerrville has done with some of their payroll. It isn't 14 right. They're in the same boat as we are on the property 15 tax freeze. But, you know, there's a real problem that the 16 public-slash-Legislature, whatever you want to say, got us 17 into a property tax freeze that keeps on getting expanded in 18 recent years. All we have is the working people and the 19 businesses that are the only ones to pay increased taxes, and 20 that's not right either. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd say you need to address that 22 issue to the folks that got us into that mess. They're all 23 together over there in Austin right now. I bet you we'd find 24 a little train ride money, you know, for you to go over there 25 and see them, Jon. 4-4-11 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, I called 2 Senator Fraser, and also -- well, I actually called Harvey's 3 office too. You know, they should do something to counter 4 our ability to get some other funds in another way than what 5 is just mainly property taxes. And my comment to Fraser was 6 that, you know, one thing that they could do would be to give 7 the county an option to raise -- or get an amount set for 8 license plate fees that would go straight to the county, and 9 counter some of these things that they've lost -- that we've 10 lost because of -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Taken away from. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They've taken away our 13 percentages, for instance, for Road and Bridge and things. 14 You know, that way it wouldn't matter if people's property 15 taxes were frozen. Everybody drives a vehicle, and it would 16 be a small amount of money that would add up to a whole lot 17 and keep us somewhat level. But that's like looking down a 18 pipe, I know, but it's -- you know, it's a thought that would 19 be a workable solution, or at least a partial solution to -- 20 to our revenue. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, the response you're 22 going to get from that senator and other legislators in 23 Austin is that we're going to pay a larger share of the 24 State's budget, and that's going to continue to occur unless 25 and until we send a clear message to them that we're not 4-4-11 bwk 48 1 going to tolerate it. And if you won't do it, we'll find 2 somebody that will. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the simple answer. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the only way I know to 6 do it. But it's really -- really frustrating whenever we're 7 sitting here; we have no ability to do anything much except 8 raise taxes -- property taxes, with no real other means other 9 than -- you know, we can't raise our sales tax revenue. We 10 can't raise our fines and fees much more. So, you know, I 11 just -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If we raise them, the State's going 13 to take a larger percentage. They're already doing that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: There are -- I can't tell you how 16 many bills there are; more than I got fingers, I'll guarantee 17 you. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Where they're saying a participatory 20 fee or penalty or fine, -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they get a larger percentage of. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Or there's an add-on to it, and they 25 get all the add-on or a larger percentage of it. 4-4-11 bwk 49 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 2 MS. HYDE: We do the work. 3 MS. UECKER: You would think that they would 4 realize that and, you know, make some other provisions on the 5 over-65, because in a county like ours, the over-65 -- I 6 mean, they just cut the taxes of -- you know, some of the 7 wealthiest people in our county now have their taxes frozen. 8 And at some point, the State's going to say, "I feel like, 9 you know, we need to rethink this," because the State's going 10 to start suffering too. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, Commissioner -- 12 Commissioner Letz mentioned that we hear, "Well, you know, in 13 order to do this fire and EMS thing, particularly EMS, raise 14 the taxes; that's fine. That's okay with me, to raise the 15 taxes." Of course, the vast majority of these people are 16 tax-frozen under the over-65. I have asked a number of them, 17 does that constitute a waiver -- when they tell me to raise 18 taxes, "Does that constitute a waiver of your right to claim 19 the over-65 tax freeze?" 20 MS. HARGIS: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: One of them has told me yes. The 22 rest of them gave me no answer, or "No," or "I'd have to 23 think about that," which I took as a no, obviously. But 24 they're the folks that are using these services, but yet feel 25 the entitlement. I don't know where the entitlements stop. 4-4-11 bwk 50 1 MS. UECKER: I wish there was a way that we could 2 have it like a county sales tax; you know, half a percent or 3 something. I know we get a percentage of, you know, the 4 state sales tax, but -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we're maxed out at a 6 half cent. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the City has capped that with 8 their one and a half, one-half 4B, and one city. And that -- 9 that's got it to the max that's mandated under the law. The 10 only other possibility, I think there's an allowance for a 11 venue-type tax that we can vote locally. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Something similar to that. But 14 that's a specific purpose type situation. But general I.R.S. 15 tax, no, we can't. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we could do it outside 17 the city limits; we could raise sales tax. 18 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, we could. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're capped. I think we're 20 capped. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we could go in -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Not outside the city limits. Not 23 outside the city limits, we're not capped. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a penny and a half that 25 we could add outside -- 4-4-11 bwk 51 1 MS. HYDE: Outside the city. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It takes a vote of the voters, 3 but -- 4 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it takes a vote. You have to 5 vote. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it would include the Ag 7 Barn, the Arts and Crafts Fair. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We know. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some -- and restaurants 10 that are out there. I mean, there used to not be that much 11 outside the city limits, but there's a fair amount in the 12 ETJ. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where our growth is. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, part of the 16 frustration here is going back to your original comment, and 17 you was reading from that -- from the city salaries line over 18 there, and -- and part of my talk to these folks that are 19 calling and writing in is, we -- we, the County, have reduced 20 our salaries, we've raised taxes, and we're laying off people 21 left and right so that the City doesn't have to, is basically 22 what we're doing. And you look at those -- look at those 23 salaries, and, god, you have to -- you have to get angry. I 24 mean, that is -- we're over here raising taxes, firing people 25 and reducing our own salaries so that they can get those high 4-4-11 bwk 52 1 salaries. That's what all that's about, in my opinion. I 2 mean, that's just frustrating. What now? 3 MS. HYDE: The Judge and Commissioner Oehler had 4 asked for me to get official information from the City of 5 Kerrville regarding the salaries so that we could look at 6 them. The first one that you have, it gives you a min, mid, 7 and max range. These are supplemental pay for firefighters 8 and law enforcement, and this is the actual payroll by type. 9 So, that way it's any way you want to look at it. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Need some time to go into all 11 this. 12 MS. HYDE: I will caution you that if you look at 13 this one -- which most of you will, 'cause it kind of looks 14 like our position schedule. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This one? 16 MS. HYDE: This one. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 18 MS. HYDE: Then you need to pull this one for 19 firefighters and for P.D. Hopefully, there's no one behind 20 me except for Rusty with a gun. So that you can kind of 21 understand, here's some apples and oranges. In our position 22 schedule, when our law enforcement receive an educational 23 increase, it is put into their salary. They get a step 24 increase. You will need to look at this to see what their 25 supplementals are. And it's very little at the very bottom, 4-4-11 bwk 53 1 Commissioner Baldwin, I know, but I tried to get it on one 2 page. So, they get certification pay per month, $125 for a 3 masters; an advanced gets $75 per month, and intermediate 4 gets $50 per month. If they're an evidence tech, they get 5 150 per month, and if they're in special crimes, they get 6 500 per month. Those are not included. None of the 7 supplements are included in this, guys. This is just 8 baseline salaries. So, although we know that the Kerrville 9 Daily Times published information about salaries last year 10 and showed how many people at the city made over $100,000, 11 there are going to be people on this list that you're going 12 to go to and look at that do not show that, because they have 13 supplementals. 14 MS. BOLIN: They're working off two different 15 payrolls. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I get a copy? 17 AUDIENCE: Get her, Rusty. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Some pretty good salaries. 20 MS. HYDE: The Judge and Commissioner Oehler have 21 asked -- and it is not prepared; it's not ready, 'cause I 22 thought this was going to be from 60,000 feet today -- a 23 comparison of salaries. That's why I wanted to make sure 24 that this list -- the very first list of who is county 25 employees, so I can compare apples to apples. And I've been 4-4-11 bwk 54 1 requested to do it two ways. One, top to bottom, all 2 employees; elected, appointed, hourly, management, everybody. 3 Which will be real simple, and compare that to the same. And 4 then the other one is to pull out elected and to pull out 5 department heads or directors on other places, and compare it 6 there. Right now, from 60,000 feet, that $32,000 that I -- I 7 used earlier, Commissioner Oehler, that is about what our 8 normal hourly employees make, if you throw out all the highs, 9 which are the directors, your elected and appointed. I hope 10 that I got that information that y'all wanted for that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, I note in the information 12 you provided, the -- the municipal judge and the associate -- 13 MS. HYDE: They are not in there, sir. They're 14 contract employees. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HYDE: And they're paid as contract employees, 17 as such. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you made a request that they 19 provide us with copies of the contracts? 20 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: Would you like for me to request a 23 copy -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I would think the media would be 25 interested in that. 4-4-11 bwk 55 1 MS. HYDE: -- a copy of the contract for the 2 municipal judge? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Media apparently have no interest. 4 MS. HARGIS: Municipal judges? You mean the City? 5 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we finished looking at 7 salaries? 8 MS. HYDE: I hope so, today. Commissioner Letz and 9 Commissioner Oehler, y'all asked for one last thing, and the 10 Judge agreed. Hopefully, you all can ponder this and let me 11 know at the next -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, can we get a dump 13 truck over here to get all the paper off the table? 14 MS. UECKER: Shred-it will be here Friday. 15 (Laughter.) 16 MS. HYDE: This one's just another one-page. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you give us some 18 more? 19 MS. HYDE: Okay. I don't know who made that -- 20 y'all asked for two draft policies for y'all to review, 21 tweak, do whatever you want to. It has been -- both of these 22 have been reviewed by the County Attorney. One is payroll 23 supplements to Kerr County employees; that's the simple one. 24 We talked about this off and on. There have been 25 supplementals that used to be paid as -- as, quote, a 4-4-11 bwk 56 1 supplemental on someone's payroll, so when you got your 2 check, you showed "X" amount of dollars was your pay, and 3 then you show a supplemental in pay. For example, prior -- 4 P.E., prior Eva, prior 2006, y'all had car allowance/vehicle 5 allowance, and it was anywhere from $1,200 that was given 6 out. But it was determined that we don't really want to do 7 that. We don't want to show it as a supplement, so we threw 8 it back into people's salaries. When we talked about that, 9 we all -- we said okay, but people forget that that was -- 10 that was put into their salary. Plus it increases people's 11 baseline, so I was asked to draft this so y'all could look at 12 it and make a determination whether or not we want to go back 13 to putting all this in supplemental. Now, if we do that, if 14 we want to -- we want to look at taking our supplements that 15 we give for educational increases for law enforcement, we can 16 -- we can put those out there, so that they're showing just 17 like everybody else. You know, we can do all that if that's 18 what we want. I think that our system is a good system. It 19 should be included in their salary. They've earned it; it's 20 part of their salary. If they leave, when Rusty replaces 21 them, they go back down to the lowest level. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I was one of the ones 23 that pushed for -- the travel allowance, anyway, getting rid 24 of those, because it's going in as income. They're paying -- 25 I mean, it's -- from an I.R.S. standpoint, they don't care 4-4-11 bwk 57 1 what it's for; they're taxing you on it. To me, it makes 2 sense to put it all together. That's a truer -- and the 3 other reason for it, in my mind, was openness to the public, 4 so they look at one number; that's what the person is getting 5 paid. Rather than trying to, you know, have money over here, 6 money over there, make it difficult so people don't really 7 realize compensation. 8 MS. HYDE: It's at y'all's pleasure or displeasure, 9 but there's the policy. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what, Ms. Hyde? 11 We might add -- you know, we were talking about -- earlier 12 about exempt employees, doing a little visit about the pros 13 and the cons of doing that. Same thing here. 14 MS. HYDE: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have the pros and cons of -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Supplements. 17 MS. HYDE: Would that be with you as well? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 19 MS. HYDE: Would this be with you as well? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I'm the only 21 one that understands this stuff. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other handout you just gave 23 us on supervisory, or supervisor or management positions, I 24 know I brought that up, and I brought up the Nash study. At 25 one point, we did the Nash study, which, you know, good or 4-4-11 bwk 58 1 bad, whatever, we did it. And it classified a lot of people, 2 and the question was, do we still use that? And, I think 3 that if we're not, I think that on supervisors, there ought 4 to be a -- a criteria to be a supervisor. I'm not sure if 5 we're -- you know, if we've varied from that original 6 analysis 10 years ago or not, but I think that -- 7 MS. HYDE: What we found, Commissioner, in the Nash 8 study, the Nash study was a straight compensation study from 9 2000. We have searched and reconned every place that we 10 know; we've got quite a bit of information, including the 11 actual final Nash study recommendations that y'all -- that 12 the Court adopted. However, comma, y'all -- the Court 13 adopted it at a Commissioners Court, and then at the very 14 next Commissioners Court, y'all began -- the Court started 15 modifying based upon suggestions. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Requests. 17 MS. HYDE: Requests. So, there have been many 18 modifications to what was there, but it was a straight 19 compensation. There was no policy, procedures, guidelines, 20 anything like that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: This was just straight compensation. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was one time. 24 MS. HYDE: What's amazing to me is that 11 years 25 later, the same holds true. When you do a compensation 4-4-11 bwk 59 1 study, it's pretty -- it's pretty much the same, no matter 2 when or where you do it. The only difference is going to be 3 the dollars. You never see a decrease in dollars, okay? 4 Sorry, that's not happening. I don't think that we have seen 5 in my lifetime -- and I'm a younger mature adolescent, that 6 I've never seen gas prices get back down to 25, 30 cent, so 7 why would we ever think that salaries or wages would go down? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I don't think wages 9 would go down. But part of that -- my memory of the Nash 10 study was that everyone, department heads, elected officials 11 went in and they redid job descriptions as part of that 12 study. I mean, that's what I remember us doing, and trying 13 to get it so that, you know, a clerk is a clerk regardless of 14 what department they're in. That was -- that was the goal. 15 MS. HYDE: That was the goal. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And a supervisor is a 17 supervisor was also part of that goal. And I think that, you 18 know, over time, I know we've made a lot of adjustments to 19 individuals' compensation because of responsibility changes. 20 At least it was done under the guise of responsibility 21 changes. And, you know, I just think we need to look at it 22 again, because if we're calling somebody a supervisor or a 23 deputy or something like that, to me, they need to have 24 supervisory responsibility, and we need to make sure they're 25 doing that. 4-4-11 bwk 60 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And if they're not, that 3 needs to be looked at and readjusted. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a pro and con issue? 5 MS. UECKER: Jonathan, when that Nash study was 6 done, every employee had to fill out a very lengthy 7 questionnaire, and as I recall, there were some departments 8 that did some very -- very creative -- 9 MS. HYDE: Thank you. Creative descriptions. 10 MS. UECKER: -- creative job descriptions on those 11 forms, 'cause I had copies of some of them; I still laugh at 12 them. But, you know, that -- that's how all of that came 13 about. And, you know, -- 14 MS. HYDE: Most people -- 15 MS. UECKER: -- Rex Hall was the guy, and he bought 16 it. 17 MS. HYDE: Most people, when you're out in the 18 public business, when we do job descriptions -- and most 19 people are going to probably disagree, but in truth and 20 honesty, when you do a job description, your job description 21 should not have more than five to eight criteria. That's it. 22 Now, we can make it 60 pages long. "I take the mail from my 23 office to the mailbox." But those are what we call 24 superfluous, and they don't mean a hill of beans. What is 25 your job? When we go through the Nash study job 4-4-11 bwk 61 1 descriptions, there isn't a one in this courthouse that is 2 less than five pages long, going down to housekeeping. 3 MS. UECKER: We were probably paying Mr. Nash or 4 Hall by the page. 5 MS. HYDE: By the word. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I'm not -- I view the 7 Nash study not as a supportive study. I recall exactly what 8 Linda's saying at the time. But there was a -- a baseline 9 established, right or wrong, at the time. 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that it's been 10, 12 12 years -- 12 years now since we did it, and I know we've 13 done -- this Court's done a lot of tweaking. And I think 14 that we need to make sure, on some of the levels, that we're, 15 you know, at least within the realm of what should be. 16 MS. HYDE: I've been working with Bandera County, 17 and they are having a -- I'm freezing, I'm sorry. They are 18 having a compensation survey done by the Waters Group out of 19 Austin, and we are participating. And it's basically going 20 to be counties all around us, same -- same/similar sizes and 21 things. And those compensation studies, along with the TAC 22 compensation study, which is basically, though, just for 23 elected officials, we've been requesting since I've been here 24 for hourly, and they just don't want to; it's going to cost 25 too much. And so I've got that one; that will be coming in. 4-4-11 bwk 62 1 Boerne did one and San Antonio did one, but San Antonio is a 2 little bit outside the realm. I mean, it's not really apples 3 to apples, but at least it's going to show me a little bit. 4 So, that's free that we can use as far as comparison, in 5 addition to the comparison that y'all have asked me to do 6 locally. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess I'm looking 8 at -- I probably shouldn't -- probably should keep my mouth 9 shut here, but -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Linda spoke up earlier. I'm 12 looking on the back on this chart, this thing. 13 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which one? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That one that has all the -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The first one. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- number of employees. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hourly and management 19 employees. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right here. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very first thing we got. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking at District Clerk, 24 it's -- there's one elected, there's three hourly, and 25 there's four management, for eight employees in the District 4-4-11 bwk 63 1 Clerk's Office. 2 MS. UECKER: Hmm? 3 MS. HYDE: You got a chief deputy, administrative 4 clerk, two deputy clerks. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, and I'm not sure how 6 Linda has her office organized, but to me that looks out of 7 whack, because you have eight employees, and you have 8 essentially five supervisors of one sort or another. 9 MS. UECKER: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm just -- 11 MS. UECKER: Number one, there's seven employees. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe you're included under the 13 management. 14 MS. HYDE: She's included. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But, anyway, that's the 16 kind of thing that I see in these numbers, and that's what 17 concerns me. 18 MS. HYDE: What happened was, we're going to call 19 apples "apples," okay? People convoluted and manipulated to 20 help get their people money. I mean, we did. And I'm not -- 21 I wasn't here, but we continue to do that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Lacking no other method, that's what 23 they use. 24 MS. HYDE: Lacking no other method, no offense, as 25 long as it is presented and it's approved, then people try to 4-4-11 bwk 64 1 take care of their people the best way that they can. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I understand that. But 3 it's -- you know, and it's a fault with the Court, to me, if 4 we're having to say -- if, you know, Linda is -- I don't want 5 to say creating management spots or supervisory spots that 6 shouldn't really be there, but we should have looked at -- or 7 we should look at that. I don't see you have that many 8 listed as -- 9 MS. HYDE: I don't think you need to -- some of 10 those -- some of those, though, in the larger offices, or 11 even in Linda's office, would she consider them supervisors? 12 Probably not. But they're outside what the job descriptions 13 were and what the levels are. So, you have multiple levels. 14 When you look at that position, they've got multiple levels. 15 You got 15's, 16's, 17's, 19's. And that's where, 16 Commissioner, you were talking about do we get out of parity 17 here. 18 MS. UECKER: They're not necessarily supervisors, 19 but their responsibilities are much greater than someone 20 that's maybe at the entry. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner -- 22 MS. UECKER: I expect much more of those folks than 23 I do over the hourly folks. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you said it's the 25 fault of the Court, and that's exactly what's happened. When 4-4-11 bwk 65 1 this Court failed to adequately compensate these employees 2 generally, these department heads and elected officials used 3 whatever means they had available at their disposal -- ruse, 4 job description change, additional responsibility -- in order 5 to retain the quality people that they want to retain, that 6 maybe they were afraid of losing. They came to us with some 7 bill of goods to sell us. "Well, I gave them more 8 responsibility, so we got to give this person more money." 9 And you're right, it's the fault of the Court. 10 MS. BOLIN: Commissioner -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've approved them all. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right, and that's why it's 13 gotten so out of whack. They have been forced to come to us 14 with schemes, ruses. Not -- not false ones, but methodology 15 in order to get their people a shot at decent compensation. 16 MR. ODOM: Creativity. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other part of that was, we 18 have -- I know in Linda's case, going back to Linda, she 19 has -- at least I think we did this several years ago -- went 20 down some numbers and increased the pay. I think it was -- I 21 don't know, four, five years ago, didn't you go down on 22 employees and respread the workload? Or my recollection is 23 you did something. 24 MS. HYDE: County Clerk. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Jannett Pieper also did that a few 4-4-11 bwk 66 1 years back. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, Jannett -- either 3 way. 4 MS. PIEPER: I want to add to what the Judge was 5 saying. Years ago, you know, like when Pat Dye was the 6 clerk, before I took over, a lot of the offices had their 7 elected officials, they had chief deputies and they had 8 administrators, and then they had what was called senior 9 clerks. So, for instance, like, I'm the clerk; here's my 10 chief deputy. My administrator's over there. Well, through 11 attrition and stuff, once I got rid of all of my senior 12 clerks -- because we had too many chiefs and not enough 13 indians. But, for example, should something happen to my 14 office with the three of us here right now, then that senior 15 deputy would have taken care of it. But now they fend for 16 themselves, and then if they have a problem, they come holler 17 to one of us. 'Cause at one point, we had three -- I believe 18 there was three senior clerks in our office. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You also had 21 employees at 20 one time. 21 MS. PIEPER: Right, exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now you're down to 10, right? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes, 11 counting me. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it's just a -- I 25 appreciate getting the information. I don't know what we 4-4-11 bwk 67 1 really can do about it, but I think it's something that we 2 need to hear. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't think it's -- I 5 think we should try to be as uniform as possible with what 6 employees are doing. You know, a clerk's a clerk. A chief 7 deputy's a chief deputy, across a lot of the courts. And the 8 other part of it is all of the offices aren't equal. I mean, 9 I remember way before I got on the court, it was just deemed 10 that the -- at that time, the Treasurer, the Tax Assessor, 11 the District and the County Clerk all got paid the same. It 12 was just done, and it was -- you know, they were lumped 13 together, because at some point they didn't want to -- and 14 that's been adjusted some -- or a little bit, not much. 15 But -- 16 MS. UECKER: They were females, that's why. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MS. BOLIN: Before my time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, it's before I was 20 around, so I don't know how that happened. But -- 21 MS. UECKER: Now, Jonathan, I will never -- you 22 know, I've been here a long time and I've seen a bunch of you 23 yahoos come and go. (Laughter.) But one of my most 24 memorable budget workshops was a County Commissioner out of 25 my precinct, someone came in to ask for a -- to set some 4-4-11 bwk 68 1 salary, and the comment was made openly that, "Well, let's 2 not set this one as high, 'cause she's got a husband that can 3 take up -- take care of that." 4 MS. HYDE: Take care of her. 5 MS. UECKER: And that's the way the salary was set. 6 They were doing the same job. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has -- 8 MS. HYDE: It's in the minutes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That wasn't me. 10 MS. UECKER: I don't -- it wasn't you. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I got a feeling where it was. 12 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I bet you do. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I remember that statement. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MS. BOLIN: I would ask the Court to please don't 16 terrorize our employees this year like they were last year. 17 MS. PIEPER: Oh, right. 18 MS. BOLIN: They were running scared, looking for 19 new jobs. The employees in my department -- I'm sure I'm one 20 of the ones you're looking at that's kind of off kilter, 21 because I moved the supervisor to another place. But she 22 also can handle any job in that place, and troubleshoots 23 everywhere. But what we went through last year, and the 24 amount of stress that was put on all of us, as well as all of 25 our employees, was beyond anything I've ever seen in this 4-4-11 bwk 69 1 place. And I would please, please ask that you don't do that 2 this year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, who knows where 4 we're going to end up? But I also want to make a comment, 5 that we have had very good cooperation from all the elected 6 officials and department heads on trying to -- on reaching -- 7 basically, reducing the staff through attrition, or moving 8 around by 10. We're -- we're kind of at the target. If we 9 can hope -- you know, how much that's going to help us, you 10 know, we'll find out when we get down, you know, and the 11 budget numbers start coming in. But it's certainly not going 12 to hurt us, and we're far better off having, you know, done 13 that than not having done that. And I appreciate all the 14 elected officials and department heads that have, you know, 15 participated in that, because it's a -- you know, our payroll 16 is one of the few things that we have some control over, and 17 that has been -- you know, is a help. It's going to be 18 another tough year. From what I can tell, anyway. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, do you have 40 years of 20 sage advice you wanted to pass on to us? 21 MS. UECKER: 44 years. Well, one of the other 22 things is, the reason we're in the problem like you're 23 talking about, Jonathan, like what you consider maybe as a 24 supervisor in my office might be someone that's been there 20 25 years. I can't ask that person to take the same salary as 4-4-11 bwk 70 1 the one that's been there a year. But, basically, that's 2 what you have tried to get us to do. 3 MS. BOLIN: Right. 4 MS. UECKER: Now, the other fault is the 5 Commissioners Court, because you have not allowed us in many, 6 many years to give merit increases for people that are going 7 beyond and above the call of duty and performing more of the 8 things that they are asked to do. And, you know I've got one 9 right now -- oh, my god, if they were all like her, I 10 wouldn't have a problem. But I am not allowed to compensate 11 her for all the extra things that she does to save the county 12 money, and works over without even claiming it. "No, it's 13 okay, I'm not going to take that." I mean, we have not been 14 allowed to give merit increases for years, so we've had to 15 come up with other ways to compensate the people for what we 16 think they're worth, and we're still not able to do it. And 17 it looks like we have all these supervisors, which we don't. 18 MS. BOLIN: Which we don't. 19 MS. UECKER: I mean, it used to be -- one of the 20 best things the Court ever did a long time ago was they would 21 say, "Okay, we're going to set the base salary here," and 22 based on the number of employees we had, they'd say, "Okay, 23 Linda, you have 2.5 percent of your employee to distribute as 24 merit." And the decision was basically mine. If I wanted to 25 give the whole -- you know, if I had one -- only one person 4-4-11 bwk 71 1 that I thought deserved a merit increase, then -- and I 2 wanted to give the 2.5 there, then that was my discretion. 3 We've not been able to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I also remember you having some 5 complaints on how that was implemented by other departments. 6 MS. UECKER: Well, yeah, there was -- it did go -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which was part of the reason it 8 went away. 9 MS. HYDE: It also will gank up the step and grade. 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah, and that was other reason, and I 11 understand that. I understand that totally. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gank? Gank? 13 MS. UECKER: Gank. 14 MS. HYDE: "Gank" is a good word. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mess up? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, are we about done 17 almost? 18 MS. HYDE: I hope so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I had one more thing on my 20 list. I saw you packing up. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's because I'm -- I have a 22 commitment to leave here in two minutes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because we're all fixing to 24 leave. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Real quick, where are we on 4-4-11 bwk 72 1 insurance? 2 MS. HYDE: Oh, jeez. (Laughter.) 3 MS. BOLIN: How long do you have? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two minutes. 5 MS. HYDE: Okay, from 60,000 feet, so that 6 everybody gets back on the same page, when you guys brought 7 me in in 2006, y'all had already done your thing. Gary 8 Looney is probably one of the best things y'all ever did. 9 Y'all may not agree, but he is. He has saved this county 10 beaucoup bucks, in excess of four, five, six, seven million 11 dollars, and helped us get money back from a bad situation 12 that had been occurring. How'd do I there? So, we set off 13 three years ago, working with the Judge -- because I know, 14 Jonathan -- excuse me, Commissioner Letz, sometimes you 15 wonder, like, who else is involved? That man, he's involved. 16 Every year he's involved. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the problem, right? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I thought. 20 MS. HYDE: So, one of the things that we looked at 21 is, we have been self-insured. We knew we were going to get 22 a hit. I've been asking every year that we could put some 23 funding back for the bad time, but we didn't. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't have any to put back. 25 MS. HYDE: We did, and we used it. And so when we 4-4-11 bwk 73 1 had the bad year, we didn't have squat. So, we are still 2 looking to go back to self-funded. I know she doesn't like 3 that. 4 MS. HARGIS: Hmm-mm. 5 MS. HYDE: We're looking at cost, and we're also 6 looking at service. And I'm going to tell you, you guys told 7 me that going to fully insured was going to be the greatest 8 thing since sliced bread. Let me tell you what, it has not 9 been easier. I mean, I can look at that one right there, and 10 he can -- he can tell you. And there's multitudes out there. 11 I've worked harder on the self-insured than I did on the -- I 12 mean on the fully insured than I did on the self-insured. 13 Lots of smoke and mirrors. And you guys need to understand 14 that if we stay fully insured -- 'cause I told you guys 15 during budget, and so did Gary, but I'm going to say it 16 again. That budget number was based on nine months. So, 17 when we go to the next year, that 2.6, 2.7 I told you we 18 needed -- it ain't rocket science. 180,000 times three, plus 19 the 2.1 that y'all allowed us to have this year for 20 insurance. Add that -- add that half a million on there, and 21 we're right back there. 'Cause they know. They know that 22 our claims were going to hit end of year. Everybody's going 23 to just skedaddle to do everything they can, because they're 24 not going to want to pay that premium and -- and $3,000, and 25 that's what's they've done. 4-4-11 bwk 74 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, can you handle this? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, 'cause we're fixing to 3 adjourn real soon. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm committed; I've got to 5 go. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 (Judge Tinley left the meeting.) 9 MS. HYDE: That's -- you said high-high, so I'm 10 telling you high-high. We're looking at self-insured again. 11 Unless we get a heck of a deal from somebody on fully 12 insured -- and I can tell you, based on what we're seeing 13 with the transition claims... 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to have a 15 workshop probably on that one topic, maybe have Mr. Looney 16 come. 17 MS. HYDE: Right. And while we're talking about 18 that, we're a half a million dollars in the hole right now. 19 You have to understand that. We're going to probably be 20 anywhere from a half million to $750,000 in the hole. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: End of year? 22 MS. HARGIS: Now. Now, today, we're half a 23 million. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- I mean, I think 25 we need to have this insurance discussion sooner. 4-4-11 bwk 75 1 MS. HYDE: You also need to know we only have three 2 months; we don't even have claims data yet. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to know -- what I'm 4 looking at is more a philosophical discussion on self-insured 5 versus -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Full insured. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- full insured. And what 8 other -- you know, what other governmental entities are 9 doing. I mean, you know, do most of them do this? I mean, 10 what's the reason? Maybe you have TAC come down as a -- as 11 an informative. Because jumping back and forth, to me, 12 intuitively is not good, and changing insurance companies 13 every year is not good. 14 MS. HYDE: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that we've made 16 some -- you know, and I -- you know, Gary may be great, but 17 Gary's the one advising us, and he's the one who advised us 18 to do this. So, that's why I have, you know, kind of really 19 critical thinking on Gary the past couple years, is that -- I 20 like him; I think he's doing a good job, but he's the one -- 21 we're taking his recommendations and our insurance is going 22 through the roof, and I need to figure out why. That's why I 23 want him here. But I think we need to figure out a plan as 24 to where we're going for a couple of years that's somewhat 25 realistic, rather than having to make a decision during 4-4-11 bwk 76 1 budget. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, basically, what 3 happened last year was we got down where we only had a 4 certain amount of money. We told him -- we said, "This is 5 what we got to spend. You tell us what we can buy for the 6 money, and how's it going to work?" 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's -- 9 MS. HYDE: You have to understand that your claims 10 are going to hit you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think I look at Gary -- 12 this is where I have a little bit of problem. You mentioned 13 earlier, we have -- 33 percent of our payroll's 14 retirement-eligible. That means we have a fairly -- you call 15 them mature adolescent work pool. 16 MS. HYDE: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're going to have higher 18 health care claims. 19 MS. HYDE: That's right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall that being part 21 of the discussion. 22 MS. HYDE: Because it wasn't. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be. 24 MS. HYDE: Because what's happened, Commissioner 25 Letz, is what we showed you during budget, and that was, it 4-4-11 bwk 77 1 wasn't the employees that was costing; it was dependent 2 coverage. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MS. HYDE: To a tune of four to one. That's huge. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MS. HYDE: That is huge. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we looked -- 8 MS. HYDE: And our employees come to work. 9 MS. PIEPER: And because we have no benefits, the 10 employees are not going to a doctor this year. 11 MS. HYDE: I mean, I'm trying to get the word out 12 to them, "Go get your physicals; those are covered 100 13 percent," but they're not even doing that. 14 MS. BOYD: Some of us can't afford our medications. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I think we need to have 16 this discussion, and some sort of a plan as to where we're 17 going to go. Maybe we're doing the best we can do; I don't 18 know. But it just seems that the past couple years, 19 insurance has been a huge budget problem that has had a 20 ripple effect through all the employees' salaries. We did a 21 tax increase last year. I mean, all this is because of 22 insurance. Insurance should be somewhat predictable, in my 23 mind. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we had -- 25 MS. HYDE: Maybe I misunderstood. 4-4-11 bwk 78 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We had the health care law 2 pass and start to be implemented. That had an effect on it, 3 because we had a bad claims year. 4 MS. HYDE: That's right, absolutely. And -- but 5 what people want to say is -- and I said the "O" word one 6 time; it is the Federal Health Care Legislation Reform Act of 7 2009 and '10 -- that it didn't cost us anything. That is 8 still what is being said out there, it doesn't cost anything. 9 Yes, sir, it does. Yes, sir, it does. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, Buster. Ready to -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what date do you want to 12 have the insurance meeting? What's a good date to have the 13 insurance meeting? 14 MS. HYDE: I don't know. Can I -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's the insurance person 16 here? You? 17 MS. HYDE: Can I get some -- like, 30 days? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thirty days, a month from now. 19 MS. HYDE: So we're looking at May? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I would say May would be 21 a good time to have it. That gets us -- 22 MS. HYDE: So, we're -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Gets us earlier. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Early. 4-4-11 bwk 79 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Earlier than 2 September-October. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably an hour long. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 MR. ODOM: It's going to take more than one 6 meeting. 7 MS. HYDE: I mean, the questions that you're 8 asking, it's more than an hour. You know that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just want to have an 10 insurance meeting, period? Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: With Gary. 12 MS. UECKER: I think it probably needs to involve 13 alcohol, too. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I may even join you on that 15 deal. So, when -- are you going to have one meeting with 16 insurance only? 17 MS. HYDE: Would you want it with the -- under the 18 budget workshop, right? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will be a budget 20 workshop, but it'll -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Specifically insurance. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- be specific on -- single 23 issue. So, what's the date? May what? 24 MS. HYDE: Whatever. 25 MS. HARGIS: Let's make it later in May rather than 4-4-11 bwk 80 1 early May, because it gives more time to -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we do it between our 3 first and third meeting of May? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be good, on 5 Monday -- whatever, third one. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The third Monday of May. 7 MS. HARGIS: That will give us more time. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are y'all are going to invite 9 TAC? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they should come. 11 MS. UECKER: Invite who? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just from a motive -- 13 MS. HYDE: Between the second and third? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, between the second and 15 fourth. Be the third, third Monday. 16 THE REPORTER: That won't work. 17 MS. HYDE: The 16th, third Monday? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. 19 MS. HYDE: I'll have to check and make sure that -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, we have an issue here 21 of some sort. 22 MS. HARGIS: Oh, the airport -- we got the airport 23 the third Monday. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they trump us for sure. 25 MS. HARGIS: They should be through by 1 o'clock. 4-4-11 bwk 81 1 THE REPORTER: It's the long meeting. 2 (Multiple-voice discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can start at the Inn of 4 the Hills at 1:00. 5 MS. HARGIS: I think we need to make that one for 6 Tuesday, that third week. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just do it on 8 Thursday. 9 MS. HYDE: Can we do it on Wednesday? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it on Wednesday. 11 MS. HYDE: Wednesday, the 18th. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Judge will kind of have 13 the -- 14 MS. BOLIN: Let's start on it Friday at 1:00; then 15 we'd still be at the inn in time for -- 16 MS. UECKER: Happy hour. 17 MS. BOLIN: Yeah, for happy hour. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Wednesday, the 18th. Is 19 there an issue there? 20 MS. BOLIN: What time? 21 MS. HYDE: Got to check and make sure everybody can 22 get here, too. So, I can kind of let you know in the next 23 week. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 25 MS. UECKER: What time? 4-4-11 bwk 82 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 a.m.? Or -- 2 MS. BOLIN: Wait, Tuesday -- you can't do it on 3 Tuesday. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're on Wednesday. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have AACOG? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Last one. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 5:30 in the morning would 8 suit me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9 a.m. When is -- when will 10 we be getting numbers from the Appraisal District? 11 MS. HARGIS: The first week in May, probably. 12 MS. BOLIN: We hope. 13 MS. HARGIS: We hope. 14 MS. BOLIN: I will tell you that Fourth came and 15 visited with me a week ago and said that they have done some 16 reevaluation in Riverhills, and the values have gone down. 17 MS. HARGIS: I was afraid of that. 18 MS. BOLIN: And they are going to look at Comanche 19 Trace, but I'm not sure which -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Did he say how much? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You live in a popular area. 22 MS. PIEPER: Buster, have we adjourned? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, because I want to 24 know about the Appraisal District. I still think we can't do 25 serious thinking, serious talking until we know what those 4-4-11 bwk 83 1 numbers are going to be. 2 MS. BOLIN: Hopefully we'll have them by the 1st of 3 May, the preliminaries. 4 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. 6 MS. BOLIN: We were supposed to have them by then 7 last year, and we didn't get them. 8 MS. HARGIS: Last year it was about the second -- 9 wasn't it the second week in May? 10 MS. BOLIN: It was June, first week in June. 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah, way after that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anything else? We're 13 adjourned. 14 (Commissioners Court workshop adjourned at 11:25 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 STATE OF TEXAS | 17 COUNTY OF KERR | 18 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 19 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 20 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 21 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 22 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of April, 2011. 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 4-4-11 bwk