1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Meeting 10 Monday, April 18, 2011 11 10:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. BUSTER BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 2 1 I N D E X 2 PAGE 3 - - - Commissioner's Comments 3 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to recommend mediation assistance/ 5 process regarding all Interlocal Agreements between Kerr County & the City of Kerrville 6 for fiscal year 2011-12 and length of contract(s) between the two government 7 entities 4 8 1.2 Consider and discuss ending or proposed Interlocal Agreements with the City of 9 Kerrville for various services and/or operations and take any appropriate action 10 thereon 17 11 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 action to approve the bond for Constable Pct. 4, Gene Huffaker 3 13 4.1 Pay bills 22 14 4.2 Budget Amendments -- 15 4.3 Late Bills 22 16 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports -- 17 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison 18 Committee Assignments as per attachment -- 19 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 22 20 5.3 Reports from Boards, Commissions and 21 Committees. -- a). City/County Joint Projects or Operations 22 Reports b). Other 23 --- Adjourned 60 24 25 GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 3 1 On April 18, 2011, at 11:08 a.m., a special court 2 agenda of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held 3 in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County 4 Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following 5 proceedings were had in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I call to order this 8 special Commissioners Court meeting posted and 9 scheduled for this date and time Monday, April 18, 10 2011, 10:30 a.m., and it is a bit past that time 11 now. We have got just a few items on this 12 particular agenda, but before we get started the 13 minutes from this administrator meeting will be 14 classified as unofficial because we have a contract 15 reporter here today that is not deputized by the 16 clerk's office, and that being the case the minutes 17 will be unofficial, but all the action will be 18 official and valid. So, I just wanted to get that 19 in the record before we get started. 20 Let's go to the addendum first, if you 21 might, item three to consider, discuss and take 22 appropriate action to approve the bond for precinct 23 4, Gene Huffaker. Ms. Pieper. 24 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, Linda has the 25 original bond that needs to be approved and it's GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 4 1 just the basic bond for his -- that he has to do 2 before he takes office. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we 4 approve the bond. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and 7 seconded to approve the agenda and approval of the 8 bond. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 9 motion signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous 11 vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 15 Let's go to item one on the agenda to 16 consider and discuss and take appropriate action to 17 recommend mediation assistance and process regarding 18 all InterLocal agreements between Kerr County and 19 the City of Kerrville for fiscal year 2001 to 12 and 20 length of contract between the two government 21 entities. Commissioner Baldwin, Commissioner 22 Overby, which one of you wants to run with this? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge and 24 Commissioners, again thank you. Given the 25 opportunity I wanted to put agenda item 1.1 on here GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 5 1 for discussion about the potential part of looking 2 at the mediation process or assistance within 3 discussions of the realm of our InterLocal Agreement 4 agreements between the City of Kerrville and Kerr 5 County. As you remember, last week we did have on 6 our agenda at Commissioners Court meeting last week 7 where we had on there discussions, and again I would 8 like to thank Commissioner Baldwin for putting that 9 agenda item on there discussing about looking at our 10 fire and our EMS opportunities, especially EMS is 11 what we were talking about, increasing that budget 12 proposal request for that InterLocal Agreement. 13 Again, that forwarded a lot of other discussions. 14 In fact, I even brought up following, Commissioner 15 Baldwin, another option to stimulate the InterLocal 16 Agreements between the City of Kerrville and Kerr 17 County. Actually, one of the things that was 18 brought up was actually trying to give us an 19 opportunity with the City to look at a incremental 20 financing a five-year plan to help close that gap. 21 We did discuss those opportunities, and again just 22 trying to get some movement as far as our InterLocal 23 Agreements between all of the agreements but was 24 trying to look at fire and EMS and how we might be 25 able to start negotiating on both sides in a fair GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 6 1 and a reasonable time frame. 2 The letter that came out last week 3 that concerned me a little bit about last week, and 4 again through the whole process we were under the 5 interpretation that dealing with these InterLocal 6 Agreements that they would be done on an individual 7 matter. Then again I think the concern and the 8 reason why I'm putting it on the agenda today is 9 wanting to hear the Court's decision, but the 10 comments that came out on a letter from council last 11 week where I was talking about the InterLocal 12 Agreements of five of the agreements that we talked 13 about, fire and EMS, animal control, the library and 14 the airport, and it seemed like in the letter last 15 week it just seemed like the comments were that it 16 was kind of a bundle approach again where we didn't 17 think it was in that approach about negotiating 18 those contracts. And with that, of course, it's 19 important to find out -- we need to make sure that 20 fire and EMS or those safety issues are dealt with 21 and make sure that they're in place for the County 22 and the City. But again, I wanted to throw out 23 there the possibility of trying to encourage 24 discussions, and that was the reason why on this 25 agenda I put in here to talk about mediation. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 7 1 And Commissioner Baldwin, you might 2 have some things that we talked about how we might 3 be able to bring the two entities together so that 4 we can get these agreements on and get them finished 5 and move forward, and again a time frame that we 6 could hopefully do sooner than later. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will make a 8 comment. The reason -- the attractive part of doing 9 something like this mediation idea is to me the 10 numbers in this whole process are a moving target. 11 I can't seem to get and I don't think any of us can 12 really focus in on where we are and what we are 13 doing. And I'm not looking at a mediation as a we 14 won/you lost type of thing at all. You know, I have 15 got one on you. I'm smarter than you are. I'm 16 cuter than you are. None of those kind of things. 17 I think it's just a good vehicle to get everything 18 on the table, everything on the table and get the 19 proper numbers out there before us and give us a 20 vehicle to have good conversations. And I know some 21 of us are -- some of you guys have been doing that, 22 but I just think it would be -- that's a good way to 23 get everything out there so we can start dealing 24 with this and get the targets nailed down. So, I 25 mean, we're going to be voting here pretty soon and GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 8 1 then I'd like to know what we're voting on, not 2 exactly like Washington. You know, they get to vote 3 on things they don't know what in the world they're 4 doing. 5 And so that's my idea. You know, 6 mediation is a good vehicle, a good tool. We have 7 folks that do that in our community and I just think 8 it would be a good thing for all of us to do. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you're 10 just looking for the Court to go on record as 11 approving conceptually -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the mediation 14 process should that become necessary or are you 15 suggesting that we ought to set some date, maybe one 16 prior to the -- to the date that the City has 17 indicated in their last communication with us to try 18 and reach some resolution prior to that date or 19 merely say some date prior to that date if we don't 20 otherwise get an agreement hammered out? What are 21 you looking for in the way of a Court action? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think just to 23 hear from the other commissioners as well, I mean, 24 about the mediation process, how do you feel about 25 that. We're just trying to, you know, encourage GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 9 1 them to be open to all ideas and all vehicles to 2 help us move forward and get this -- get these 3 agreements completed. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I make a 5 comment? I think the Court knows that the City 6 requested originally Judge and Mr. Overby meet with 7 them last week, and I somehow was substituted for 8 Commissioner Overby at his -- he can do it now or 9 maybe even encouraged, I'm not sure. I was just 10 asked if I could do it and I said yes. But that was 11 Thursday or Friday? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Friday. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Friday afternoon. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday afternoon 16 we met. It was a good meeting. I think it was 17 probably one of the more productive meetings that we 18 have received, but I think it goes very much to the 19 mixed signals because the meeting was different from 20 my perception from the letter that we received two 21 days before that and it makes it very hard for us to 22 know really what we're dealing with sometimes 23 because you talk to them in the group. There was at 24 that meeting there was Kathy was there as the court 25 reporter, the city manager, the mayor, then Wampler GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 10 1 and Council Motheral and the Judge and myself. 2 There was five of us in there and Kathy, but it 3 clarified a lot, I guess, in the City's mind, 4 clarified the letter which was very different than I 5 think most of us interpret the letter. 6 So, I thought that was interesting, 7 but I think there is a good chance that bringing in 8 a mediator to help is not a bad idea in my mind. I 9 don't want to go backwards, but at the same time, 10 you know, if someone would come along to help look 11 at some of these issues because it's a -- there is 12 still a disconnect in my mind between the fire and 13 the EMS. I have a hard time figuring out where the 14 City is actually going there because they're 15 attribute -- they have got a fire budget, they have 16 got a EMS budget, but we're not supposed to look at 17 the EMS budget. We're supposed to look at the EMS 18 and the fire combined because they're inter-related 19 even though they have two different budgets. And 20 that conceptually is very hard for me to understand, 21 okay, what part of the fire is the City telling is 22 now the EMS. And if it's EMS, then why isn't it in 23 the EMS budget? So, that whole concept is still 24 difficult for me to wrap my head around and those 25 are obviously two of the big contracts, although I GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 11 1 think we did -- I learned a whole lot more on Friday 2 than I did previously. It was a very good meeting. 3 So, you know I think I'm kind of like 4 Commissioner Baldwin. You know, it seems like the 5 numbers move and we look at -- we account for our 6 dollars and things that we're doing at our 7 departments one way and they have a different way to 8 calculate the dollars for their departments. And I 9 think that, you know, that's one of the reasons for 10 some disparages, you know, are apart. So, I think 11 bringing someone in I'm not at all opposed to. I 12 don't know how we do it is the question I have. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's relatively 14 simple how we do it. If we go on record as being in 15 support of it and the City is willing to do 16 likewise, we either agree to have a mediator 17 assigned or we agree upon a mediator and we sit down 18 and the mediator will carry us through the process. 19 The mediation process has proved to be very, very 20 successful. It's not binding. A lot of folks get 21 mediation and arbitration mixed up. Arbitration is 22 a binding procedure; mediation is not. And even 23 with a pretty involved litigation, mediation has 24 proven to be very, very successful. Probably 25 80 percent or slightly more of those cases referred GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 12 1 to mediation get resolved through that process as 2 opposed to going on and being litigated through the 3 court system. The advantage to that is -- obviously 4 is saving a lot of time, and number two, if it's 5 litigated through the courts, why then there is the 6 avenue of appeals that can go on seemingly 7 indefinitely, but it's a good process. 8 And I think if I'm hearing you 9 correctly, Commissioner, what you're asking is for 10 this to go on record as being in support of 11 mediation. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The process. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The process for all of 14 these InterLocal Agreements and let them know that 15 and ask them to be of like mind and let's get this 16 show on the road and let's start working on 17 mediating it. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's the 19 recommendation. Let's move forward. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'll tell 22 you, it's not a bad thing to do this I don't 23 believe, otherwise I don't think we're ever going to 24 get it solved. I really don't because they don't 25 seem to be willing to give in to anything less much GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 13 1 than what they started out saying, and I think from 2 the beginning all we really wanted to know were 3 facts so that we could make a sound judgment, but 4 they're also -- you know, there is a movement on I 5 understand -- I got an e-mail this morning talking 6 about privatizing fire and EMS both in a lot of the 7 nation because the cities and counties can't afford 8 what they have been sold for a lot of years and that 9 may come in time here. We don't know where we're 10 going in the future, but we do know we need to have 11 service for the next year and I have been saying 12 mediation from the beginning. It's just a matter 13 that they have to agree to do it, too. You can't -- 14 one party won't work. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other 16 part of that, and it's whether you mediate or not, I 17 think it's based on it is more productive to meet in 18 a small group or committee -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- than I think to 21 have a joint meeting where there is a whole lot of 22 public posturing going on. It seemed even though -- 23 and I think that there is probably a preferred way 24 at this point which is not really how I felt 25 originally and I think this Court has five very GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 14 1 strong-willed minds on these issues, so that's why 2 at the time originally I was kind of reluctant to 3 stay on any kind of subcommittee because I'm not 4 sure that a subcommittee would get anything through 5 the Court then. But, you know, it hasn't worked 6 meeting as a body to body, Commissioner's Court to 7 City Council, so I think -- and if you're going to 8 go the mediation route, I almost think you need to 9 go with the subcommittee route as well to have 10 something productive come especially to speed the 11 process. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you have to -- 13 someone has to be authorized to have the authority 14 to act on behalf of the parties, and the case of 15 local government certainly it would be subject to 16 the approval of the respective entire body of 17 council or the Commissioners Court, but that's 18 required for the process to be effective. And it 19 occurs to me that if we're going to do that we need 20 to have no more than two from the Court under -- in 21 that process, the City would be likewise otherwise 22 we have got ourselves back where we can't really 23 maneuverer too well. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Was the theme of 25 the -- after the meeting concluded on Friday was GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 15 1 there a theme from their part to encourage further 2 dialogue in meetings as soon as possible this week? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not this week. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: In the coming 5 days? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was -- 7 I think it was very much left as progress, I think, 8 was made on both sides. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that 11 they anticipated -- Judge and I are a little bit 12 different as to I was -- I left kind of thinking 13 that we are probably shooting the volley over that 14 way and he was kind of thinking they were going to 15 give one back our way. So, you know, we're not in 16 total agreement as to the next step, but I think 17 that all the parties, there is a next step which is 18 positive. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 20 Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's your intention 22 to have the Court approve the mediation process to 23 go forward -- 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I will make that 25 a motion. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 16 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a 4 second for the endorsement of the mediation process 5 to help find a resolution to these InterLocal 6 Agreements. Any question or discussion on the 7 motion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just 9 wanted to make a comment. Our new Commissioner here 10 reminds me of a mosquito in the summertime, you know 11 the buzzing thing going around all the time and 12 you're swatting at it and you can't ever quite get 13 it. He has been talking about this, him and Bruce 14 both have been talking about this since he landed 15 here and I first thought he was a little bit crazy. 16 I still think he's a little bit crazy, but he hung 17 in there with his buzz and finally got it done. I 18 appreciate you doing that. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments? 21 Any other skeeters we need to get out here? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I have never 23 heard -- that's a good one. Thank you, Buster. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mosquitoes? 25 MR. OVERBY: No, sir. That's a good GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 17 1 one. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the 3 motion signify raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous 5 vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, do the 7 same. 8 (No response.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a mosquito 10 in a positive way. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I guess so. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can nickname 13 him Skeeter. (Laughter. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let's move 15 forward. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You would just as soon 17 avoid that monitor. 18 MR. OVERBY: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item two is to 20 consider and discuss pending or proposed InterLocal 21 agreements with the City of Kerrville for various 22 services and/or operations and take any appropriate 23 action thereon. 24 I put this on the agenda since we were 25 having a meeting. If there were any action for us GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 18 1 to officially take action on, we would have been in 2 a position to do so. Obviously, as a result of the 3 meeting on Friday we weren't but -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Judge, I 5 mean, let's decide if we are going to go the 6 subcommittee route. I mean, I think we can do that 7 out of this. If we're going to do this -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- let's at least 10 get moving and -- because I would think that -- you 11 know, I'm not sure if it will be happening this 12 week, but I think certainly by the end of next week. 13 And I would think this week, you know, while we're 14 having some positive dialogue we should continue 15 dialogue, whoever is on it, whoever that is it. And 16 I'd be glad to do it, but I don't have to do it. It 17 makes no difference to me. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're exactly 19 right. You get -- you used the word posturing 20 awhile ago. I mean, we can beat around the bush if 21 we want to, but that is happening, that happens and 22 you have a candidate or two involved in it and 23 they're running -- they're running political races, 24 and that doesn't lend to any positive stuff to it as 25 far as I'm concerned. So, you just boil it down to GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 19 1 the same group that was in here Friday in my 2 opinion. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Uh-huh. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And rock and 5 roll. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I agree 10 with Commissioner Baldwin and Commissioner Oehler 11 again about continuing the same dialogue that we had 12 to start last Friday and continue to follow up with 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you were 15 both there. It just makes sense that you both be 16 there. I especially would like to have the Judge on 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't 20 forget that the answer is no. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the thing that we 22 must not forget is that unless the majority of this 23 Court takes formal action in open court and approves 24 it, it ain't going to happen anyway. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 20 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just to get a 2 tentative agreement. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposed agreement. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A quick aside to 5 our meeting on Friday, I would say five minutes 6 before the meeting it was very questionable whether 7 we were going to have a meeting based on the 8 temperament of the Judge. 9 MS. GRINSTEAD: I agree with that one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was several 11 of the -- what was funny is that I was here 12 wandering around. All of a sudden I see Charlie 13 Hastings show up and Mike Garwin shows up. And I 14 see Mark Beaver is walking up. And I said, Judge, I 15 think this City thinks this meeting has a lot more 16 participants than I think it's going to have. I 17 told him, I said, these people are running around. 18 Well, the Judge got cranky at that point. 19 (Laughter) But the bottom line was I had a 20 discussion with the City manager on the phone and 21 the rest of them went back to work. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It wasn't any meeting 23 to me in my opinion. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But anyway -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, they're a bunch of GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 21 1 good guys. I enjoy them. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the Judge -- 3 saw the Judge and his crankiness for a few minutes, 4 but any way. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Again, I just 6 encourage the subcommittee then of Commissioner Letz 7 and Judge Tinley to just continue to move forward. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my feeling 9 would be either that we should have a motion saying 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll make a 12 motion then that our subcommittee and dialogue with 13 our InterLocal Agreements representing Kerr County 14 with the City of Kerrville be Judge Pat Tinley and 15 Commissioner Jonathan Letz. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and 18 seconded. Question and discussion? All in favor 19 say so by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous 21 vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. 25 Okay. Let's see if we have anything GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 22 1 further that we need to do under this agenda. Do we 2 have any bills to pay, any late bills, budget 3 amendments? 4 MS. HARGIS: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Reports? The sheriff 6 shook his head no before I even raised the issues. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You looked at me. 8 I'm letting you go on. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any elected officials 10 have reports quickly, department heads? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We might want 12 to say thank you to this young lady here, whoever 13 she is, and -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you tell us 15 who you are. 16 THE REPORTER: My name is Robin Brame. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Robin, we appreciate 18 you being here. 19 THE REPORTER: Well, thank you very 20 much. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 (The special Commissioners Court 23 meeting was closed at 11:30 and the workshop was 24 held in open court as follows:) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will adjourn GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 23 1 the Commissioner's Court meeting and I will convene 2 a Kerr County Commissioner's Court workshop posting 3 schedule for this date and time Monday, April 18th, 4 2011, at 10:30 a.m. It's obviously past that time 5 now. The item on the workshop agenda is review and 6 discuss fiscal year 2011-12 budgets and fiscal 7 capital expenditure and personnel matters related 8 thereto. 9 Our HR director pitched out something 10 to us dealing with the proposal before the Congress 11 now on the unemployment tax. I think most of you 12 guys saw it, that if that proposal passes our 13 unemployment tax will more than double. It will go 14 up. We're paying now, what, $135,000 roughly? 15 MS. HARGIS: 143, I think. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 17 MS. HARGIS: 143, I think. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And it will go 19 up about another 150,000 if it is approved by the 20 Congress, which is a nice little gift to the local 21 government and other employers. It affects 22 everybody, I think. We seem to be -- indication was 23 that that was a result of the unemployment funds 24 going broke in a number of the more progressive 25 states, California, Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 24 1 and New York. And they have borrowed their 2 unemployment money now from the feds and the feds 3 got to figure out a way to make it up, so those of 4 us in Texas and elsewhere get to prop up those 5 unemployment programs. So, the next time you see 6 your neighbors from those states you should expect 7 to hear a thank you from them if it passes. If it 8 doesn't, they ought to thank you any way just for 9 not being as big a problem as they are. Okay. 10 (Laughter.) 11 Okay. Gentlemen, who wants to throw 12 something out on the table? Gee. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess 14 again on the capital expenditure, that's the area 15 that I would really like to hear from the department 16 heads and elected officials as to do we have any big 17 ticket items, and big being, you know, probably 18 $50,000. I don't know what big is, 50,000 or more 19 items, 25,000, that they see that they're going to 20 have needs this year. And I see the sheriff 21 raising -- and road and bridge raising their hand, 22 but all of them that are present I think that's kind 23 of the first things we have to look at in my mind, 24 the big capital items. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Which do you have, GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 25 1 Sheriff? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, just a 3 couple of things. Number one, let's start with the 4 jail. The control panel control all the operation 5 of the doors is totally outdated. We can't buy 6 parts for it anymore. We do have issues with it. 7 It's all working as we speak, knock on wood, but 8 that was built in '95, okay, and put in and just 9 been maintenance since then. To replace that the 10 bid I have on that from Guardian who did the new one 11 over at the juvenile detention and everywhere else 12 is $50,000, 49,000-something. I won't sit here and 13 say it's a absolute that it has to be replaced, but 14 if it does go down, we can't get parts for it. 15 Okay. So, that's a gamble flip of the coin if it's 16 going to make it another year because it does break 17 down and just with some fangling half the lights in 18 it don't work, so it is an issue. That's the main 19 issue I have for the jail. 20 The other issue I have for the jail is 21 we are going to have to replace one of our food 22 carts, which is the warming cart. The cost of that 23 cart is 7,000. We have three of them. That one 24 is -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Three of them? GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 26 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At 7,000 each? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he just needs 5 one. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It just keeps the food 8 nice and warm as it rolls around the jail so that 9 everybody gets a hot meal. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's required by 11 the jail commission. It keeps cold food cool, hot 12 food warm. It's required. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like the 14 hospital, huh? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yep. It plugs in 16 and keeps it going. It's part of my five star hotel 17 services. So, the only other thing is something 18 that Trolinger may be able to get us through is 19 we're having some scanner problems with the little 20 ones in the jail and we may have to replace a couple 21 of scanners or add a couple, and they're about a 22 thousand each. Those are the only things I see 23 coming from the jail. 24 From the sheriff's office side, the 25 only item I think that we need to start looking at GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 27 1 and discussing is going to be our vehicle situation. 2 We have good vehicles. We have replaced all the 3 patrol vehicles as you know over the last several 4 year, but the very first set of Tahoes that we got 5 separately from all of them, now some of those have 6 70,000 miles on them. We're going to have to start 7 rolling some of them out either this coming year or 8 at the very latest the next year, but I think if we 9 don't get into a rollout type program -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A rotation. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- where we do 12 about four a year, you know, three or four a year 13 and back on a lease deal, I think we're going to end 14 up with all those 20 we got last year going out at 15 one time and we can't afford that. So, I would 16 recommend replacing either three or four a year 17 starting out and rolling the other ones down back on 18 a lease program, which if we do that you're looking 19 at about a 30,000, somewhere around there, yearly 20 payment. Three times in the last year it's a 21 dollar. Between 30 and 40,000 each year for three 22 years and that's a lease program. And then the 23 fourth year you pay a dollar for them and then you 24 can do with it whatever you want. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, 70,000 is GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 28 1 not high mileage on those vehicles. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right now -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what I'm 4 thinking is what can we -- maybe just checking on 5 what we get on a trade in on those. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that would put 8 it say at 90,000 miles. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can use the 10 trade in as part of the lease if we wanted to do the 11 lease program again like we did years before or we 12 can just trade them in. And see, that was one of 13 the reasons we went to the Tahoes. The trade in 14 value was a little bit better than the Crown Vics. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was before 16 gas went up. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now you're 19 talking about Smart cars, right? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get a Yugo 21 before long. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I think 24 that's probably a good idea is to figure out about 25 what they're going to be year end or fiscal year GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 29 1 end. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Plus if you 3 recall, normally we used -- if we didn't trade them 4 in, we would roll them on down to other uses. Like 5 I still have four Crown Vics that we use for other 6 uses that their mileage is a whole lot higher than 7 that. It's already over 100,000. So, a lot of 8 times if we keep those older patrol cars, we roll 9 them down to civil warrants, jail, things like that 10 because the agreement I made the first year I took 11 office is that all new police packaged vehicles 12 would always go on patrol first and that's where 13 we'll need them first. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those vehicles 15 aren't all that bad either. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh-uh. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's an old 18 myth from years ago when Rusty grew up and was -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Beg your pardon? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You were younger 21 back when the 100,000 mile thing was real -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not -- and 23 they're maintained good. I'm just saying that it's 24 either going to have to start this year or next 25 year, but if we don't start a program to start GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 30 1 rolling out, we're going to be in an issue. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Are those 70,000 3 mile cars, are those two years old, three years old? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're 2008s. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 2008, so we're 6 talking two and a half, three years old. Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My personal 8 feeling right now is as far as the budget is going 9 is doing it next year, not this budget year, but I 10 think it's something to look at. I think it would 11 be something we can consider depending where we are 12 with budget issues. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's all I 14 wanted to do is look at that, otherwise I think 15 right now -- I looked at it the other day. Gas and 16 oil, we're right in line so far. Okay. We're -- in 17 fact, we're a little bit to the good at this point 18 except for in the jails and that's mainly just a few 19 vehicles I do some amendments to swap around, but 20 patrol-wise we're doing real well right now. But if 21 it keeps going up much more, then, yeah, we're going 22 to have to add more to that line item, but that's 23 the only thing I see. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those flex fuel 25 vehicles? GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 31 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the availability 3 of flex fuel for use in the -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not around here 5 very much that I have seen. We're really getting 6 pretty good mileage out of those vehicles and we're 7 getting a lot better service out of them. The one 8 thing that I -- the only thing I have gone through 9 on those vehicles that's really surprised us, even 10 on the newest one, is tires, is the tires that they 11 put on them from the factory have been useless. We 12 have gone through them in one year. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Gather some numbers 14 about that relative trade value and -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll do that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and netting out 17 against lease and so forth. Even if you go, you 18 know, after the beginning of the new model year, 19 the -- of the previous model year new units so a lot 20 of times -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's normally 22 what we do -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- is we get the 25 year before units. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, and not 3 go after the brand-new ones, but that's -- and that 4 could be, like I said, in a lease program if we did 5 three to four. Even if we did do it this year, 6 outside figures you're looking at 30 to 40,000 in 7 capital outlay for that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all I 10 really have. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 Ms. Hoffer. 13 MS. HOFFER: We were hoping for two 14 eight to ten year dump trucks and they're about 15 $80,000 a piece and two side loader boxes for 16 installation on the back of the dump truck. And 17 those are 12,000 and that figures in installation 18 each, so 24,000 for two of them. And then we didn't 19 know as far as future out on the Comfort yard. That 20 would be something that would come out of capital, 21 but that was mentioned. 22 And then we also have looked at a 23 program called Pictometry for mapping trying to get 24 some of the other departments here interested in it, 25 the S.O., environmental health. I had talked to GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 33 1 Diane and she wasn't really quite sure if she would 2 be interested, but we use an ARC feed program right 3 now and it's not bad. I don't think it's really 4 user friendly and the aerials and the graphics are a 5 lot better in this Pictometry. The 911 office uses 6 it. KPUB uses it. The City of Kerrville uses it 7 and I think KCAD if they don't use it, they're 8 getting ready to. So, we kind of trying to get 9 everybody together and kind of share the cost. It's 10 not terribly cheap. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make sure I 12 understand. Side loader boxes, how many? 13 MS. HOFFER: Two. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Two at seven a pop? 15 MS. HOFFER: At 12. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 12 a pop. 17 MS. HOFFER: A total of 24,000 and 18 that includes the installation of them, too. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the mapping 20 software run? 21 MS. HOFFER: I don't know what the 22 total price is. They had told us our breakdown Mark 23 from -- Mark Deltorro from 911 said if we could get 24 four departments from the county to do it, it would 25 be 12,000 apiece and I'm not sure if that's for a GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 34 1 one-year, yes, or if that's for a three year. That 2 I'm not real, real sure on. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's 4 three year. You're talking about it's like an 5 appraisal. It's -- Bruce and I talked about it a 6 little bit. It's where they can go in and pretty 7 well see exactly what kind of fence you have in the 8 backyard and how many windows you have in your 9 house. It's for appraisal district use, but it can 10 be used for a lot of different things. It's an 11 upgrade of what the appraisal district uses now to 12 be able to show roads and all that. It is a 13 excellent system to go to. The only thing that I 14 think that I would remind the Court of and they're 15 talking about environmental health, road and bridge. 16 MS. HOFFER: And possibly Diane's 17 office and I had said something to Jean and -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing is 19 12,000 a piece is quite a bit. The only thing I 20 would have the Court keep in mind is 25,000 we paid 21 for the code red which is an county wide tax system, 22 too. The County pays on 100 percent of that. So, I 23 think there may be some give and take in that issue 24 on some of that cost because the main uses of that 25 system is going to be your appraisal district -- GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 35 1 MS. HOFFER: And they have a thing I 2 mentioned -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- and 911. 4 MS. HOFFER: -- the technical term, 5 but I want to say it's called like parcel checker 6 and you can pick and choose the things you want the 7 computer to identify and it does an overlay off your 8 previous year. And so you can click off swimming 9 pools, additions, decks. I mean, obviously the more 10 you're wanting it to check, the more it's going to 11 cost you, but, you know, if you found two large 12 homes that were built and nobody knew that they were 13 on the payroll, it would pay for itself real quick. 14 And the computer identifies it, so you're not paying 15 an employee to be side by side checking aerial shots 16 from the previous year so -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bruce and I 18 talked how much do we want big brother to get 19 involved because that's kind of what it sounds like 20 to me, but for appraisal or 911 it would be 21 fabulous. For law enforcement purposes it's 22 probably more like a planning deal. If you're 23 trying to find where a good location is and what 24 type of place it is before you have to run a search 25 warrant or how big the property is or things like GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 36 1 that or how much do you have to search or we're 2 fighting fires and you need to map out an area and 3 see exactly where it is and where you can get 4 resources to, yes, I can see it being effective. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that pretty much it 6 from your standpoint? 7 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your wish list? 9 MS. HOFFER: Yep. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you. 11 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 12 MS. BOLIN: I won't be using it 13 because I get everything from the appraisal 14 district, but I will say that when they did get the 15 Pictometry that they have one home that paid for the 16 whole thing because it was not on the roll and the 17 gentleman would not allow them back there to look at 18 it. And when they got the pictures, he's not happy 19 so -- (Laughter). If they will still be willing to 20 share it. Like I said, it's not an easy program, 21 but I'm wondering if they will still be willing to 22 share it with our office, then that's great. 23 I already talked to them and yeah, our 24 procedures wouldn't change. They do all my voter 25 precincts and all of my -- any maps that I have to GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 37 1 have, they do them for me free of charge so -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the dump 3 trucks, what are your current dump trucks condition 4 of them? I mean, I presume you're going to try to 5 get rid of current dump trucks to get two new dump 6 trucks? 7 MS. HOFFER: Well, sometimes -- well, 8 we will if it's -- we have got a couple of old gas 9 dump trucks that have a side on them right now and 10 we can kind of take some of our six to eight yard 11 dump trucks that aren't totally worn out but have 12 diesel motors in them and end up putting side order 13 boxes on those. And I think these 8/10 yards would 14 be used strictly as a dump truck. We kind of rotate 15 them. On gov deals we ended up getting rid of -- I 16 think we got rid of three dump trucks and they were 17 all gas motored dump trucks and had been really worn 18 out. I want to say they were 1983/1984 models. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing that 20 had been mentioned to me was if y'all get I guess 21 it's a concrete yard and buy the security fence 22 around that about possibly getting TDC to do it like 23 they did ours on how big a yard or how much fence 24 that would be, but if you'll -- a fence we bid 25 around that 17 acres there our sheriff's office was GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 38 1 70,000. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's way too 3 much. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a 10-foot 5 electric gate. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ten foot, razor wire 7 and extensions and the whole nine yards. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A ten foot, 36 9 inch razor wire, electric gate and an electric walk 10 through gate and one slide gate so -- and that was 11 it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We're still looking at 13 capital. Mr. Tolinger. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Well, the 15 Pictometry program, I'm all for it. I think a 16 county our size really cannot support a GIS function 17 and probably any of the entities, but we're 18 fortunate that the entities work together, central 19 appraisal works with tax and 911 works with the 20 sheriff's office. And if those entities are the 21 primary users and those are the people that update 22 the database more importantly, if we can get that 23 hosted say by 911 Commission, then we're in a great 24 position to buy into the system at a relatively 25 inexpensive cost to get a scope on a centralized GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 39 1 graphical information system. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any -- any 3 master software programs that you're looking at or 4 are we just looking at the annual maintenance and 5 updates or what are you looking at from an I.T. 6 standpoint? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the overall cost 8 for capital for I.T. that I've estimated so far is 9 about $72,000 for next year, and that's the hardware 10 and software to update the computers, to maybe add 11 software for the county attorney if he needs that. 12 It's less than it was last year and I'm still not 13 firm on it. I've just got a worksheet right now 14 where I'm adding up the numbers. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're in the 16 neighborhood of $70,000? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And that's 18 the I.T. capital. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeannie, what was 22 our capital in the treasury this year? 23 MS. HARGIS: We didn't have any. We 24 pushed it all over to -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was all from GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 40 1 last year and the previous year we did the bond 2 issue? 3 MS. HARGIS: Right. And then -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's all 5 right. I'm sorry. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I scolded her so many 7 times I've got her gun-shy. Kelly, yeah, you had 8 something else? 9 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. The reps from 10 Pictometry and Mark Deltorro said that they would be 11 more than happy to do like a PowerPoint 12 presentation. You can actually see how clear the 13 aerial shots are, show what all is available on this 14 program and just to let them know and they would be 15 more than happy to do a presentation. It's pretty 16 impressive. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you think 18 it's going to as hard to negotiate with them as it 19 is City? 20 MS. HOFFER: I hope not. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anymore 22 capital -- Ms. Hargis, are you aware of any capital 23 items? 24 MS. HARGIS: Do you have any? 25 MR. BOLLIER: Not if we have got the GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 41 1 stuff on gov deals and all that figured out, we've 2 got money. 3 MS. HARGIS: The big ones, the sheriff 4 road and bridge and the sheriff are the two big 5 ones -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MS. HARGIS: -- and the I.T. I 8 haven't heard if anybody else wants any equipment. 9 I mean, I'm not hearing them come forward. I think 10 most of our copy machines are on leases, so I 11 haven't -- you know, I haven't looked on it to see 12 what people have put yet because we haven't closed. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You're sitting pretty 14 good, Tim? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. I mean, it's 16 like the stuff on gov deals like when I came before 17 the Court before we get all that, you know, the 18 whole object was to try to get a new Bobcat, the 19 next step up. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MR. BOLLIER: And the way things are 22 going on that gov deal, I'm not going to have to be 23 asking for a lot of money anyway. I don't think 24 it's going to be more than -- I'll go to the high 25 side. I'll just say 10,000. I don't -- I'll just GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 42 1 go to the high side of it then. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But you have already 3 got the allocation in place to take care of that 4 right now. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 7 MR. BOLLIER: With the auditor and 8 everything. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner, do 10 you need some capital items? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. I can't 12 talk about it with the ladies in the room though. 13 (Laughter.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 15 Ms. Uecker. 16 MS. UECKER: I'm going to need a 17 scanner, but I'm working with John. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 MR. TROLINGER: I've got it. That's 20 in I.T. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, for the hardware? 22 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You have 24 probably got several of them in there, don't you? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. There are seven GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 43 1 scanners for next year that the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. TROLINGER: -- overwhelming 4 acceptance by the departments to start automating. 5 The auditor's office, for instance, is scanning 6 everything. It's going to save us many times the 7 value of the hardware to automate and scan and 8 organize these paper documents. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We know about 10 the unemployment tax. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe there 12 is contribution for TCDRS, too. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's not too much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 15 MS. HARGIS: I think we probably need 16 to talk about the crime victim's grant that Rosa 17 came in at 10:00, so she probably won't get that 18 grant. 19 MS. LAVENDER: We won't know that 20 until late August. I think we'll -- I don't think 21 there is any way we'll know for sure until we hear 22 from the governor's office. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was told what 24 was recommended was what was coming as long as 25 funding is there. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 44 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. 2 Recommended subject to funding, of course. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the bottom 5 line is -- 6 MS. HARGIS: We'll probably need to 7 put it in ours though because we won't get it until 8 late August. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we may want to 10 show it as a budgeted item because she has managed 11 to keep that grant funded about two or three years 12 longer than it ever should have been in the first 13 place. 14 MS. LAVENDER: Six years. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And there was 16 some -- one that has been funded for over 12 years 17 got recommended to not be, so that could change. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'll see what 19 happens, but I don't think we can count on it. 20 Let's talk about TCDRS. What has that number -- 21 MS. HARGIS: I think it was 63 22 evidence. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 62 or 63,000. 24 MS. HARGIS: For the increase there. 25 It went from 11 -- we have it actually as 1101 and GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 45 1 it went from 11 to 1141. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 11014, I think. 3 MS. HARGIS: No. 1141, I think, 4 total. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 1141. 6 MS. HARGIS: So, with the insurance 7 and everything the total. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. It's got 9 a .29 in there. Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: So, I think that was 11 about 62,000. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 62. 13 MS. HARGIS: 62, 63. I haven't -- you 14 know, again I haven't heard from any of the 15 departments that they're asking anymore, but I'm 16 sure gas, we need to go up on gas. I'm sure. We 17 will get our insurance for property in May and we 18 have got a lot of new equipment and stuff that we 19 have been putting on, but we have been getting it 20 prorated because we're only doing partial year. So, 21 our insurance, I'm sure our property insurance is 22 going to go up. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're also 24 rotating a lot of equipment off. 25 MS. HARGIS: We are. We have been GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 46 1 taking it off as fast as we can get it off, but 2 unfortunately the new stuff like the Tahoes are more 3 expensive, you know, coming on. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The rate goes up. 5 MS. HARGIS: And the rate goes up, so 6 it may not be great. You know, it's probably a few 7 thousand dollars. It's not going to be major, but 8 there will be some increase there. There was a 9 little bit of an increase last year. We also 10 increased our levels of coverage so that we would 11 have enough money for replacement. I didn't know if 12 you want to do anything out there at the ag barn, 13 lights or anything in between. Do you want to add 14 that -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's being 16 worked on right now and we're supposed to be getting 17 an estimate here shortly. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the 19 Comfort Yard and so forth, at least Kerr County Road 20 and bridge yard and the ag barn, that's kind of a 21 different discussion. It's kind of more -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Major project. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A major project 24 that we need to look at the Court level, you know, 25 and I think a lot of that is going to be budget GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 47 1 driven. I mean, that money is there, but at the 2 same time -- part of it's there anyway. 3 MS. HARGIS: Keep in mind I just gave 4 y'all a new capital report. I would suggest if we 5 can take as many of these items that we possibly 6 could, I would encourage y'all to think about taking 7 out of the money we still have remaining. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 MS. HARGIS: We have to reallocate. 10 You know, you'll have to reallocate that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some of that 12 money also that is in there it's probably a good 13 time to spend it. I think on the construction stuff 14 it's a good time in acquisition, I think. We are 15 doing property acquisition or I think the time is 16 good to at least move the money in the -- what was 17 it? It's a dead issue. What is it? 18 MS. HARGIS: Tax anticipation money. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Just call it a dead 20 issue. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A dead issue. I 22 got hit the last time I said it, so on the dead 23 issue. It was designated for a certain purpose. 24 So, if we have to use it for that, we might as well 25 use it. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 48 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, we need to use it 2 for capital funding. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And we have got the 5 annex, Ingram annex. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hopefully get 7 the annex this next year. 8 MS. HARGIS: If there are any other 9 items, I'll be glad to compile them and put them in 10 a spreadsheet so we can look at them all. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Potentially we've got a 12 Kerrville south fire station. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really think 14 we need to move that out of the potential category 15 into the possibility category or something a little 16 more positive. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Needed category. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Needed. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The sheriff wants 20 a new jail. (Laughter.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you had your 22 opportunity a while ago when I asked you is there 23 anything else. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we're talking 25 buildings, I have been talking with the jail GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 49 1 commission on buildings. Because of our crowding 2 and where we are, we have -- as of Friday we had 51 3 minimum security inmates. Okay. Minimum only. We 4 could build a minimum security facility out of 5 conventional materials. You don't have to use the 6 concrete and steel. You can build it just like that 7 annex or anything else. Talking to the jail 8 commission they built one in Caldwell County which 9 before we got too much into it I would recommend we 10 go look at. They built one there for 48 beds 11 minimum security for 300,000. Now, that was three 12 years ago. So, the price has been pretty level for 13 the last three years after that. Now, using a tent 14 like we talked about, Midland County build one out 15 of a tent-type material for 72 inmates and cost them 16 1.2 million. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you move your 18 people out of the annex back into the main building 19 and we'll use the annex portion that you're 20 occupying for the inmates. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it is an 22 issue that we're going to have to look at. My issue 23 in the jail right now has always been and is dealing 24 with females. And if the jail commission would do 25 what I'm proposing on swapping over a couple of real GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 50 1 cells, the thing I have to watch out for is out of 2 sight and sound for males. If they will give me 16 3 more female beds which should take care of our issue 4 for a while, but it takes away the 16 male beds. 5 But with 51 minimum security males, if we moved them 6 into a minimum security facility on the same 7 property, then we can solve a lot of our minimum 8 security issues for a long time and you use them out 9 in the garden or whatever. And the only other -- in 10 looking at whatever else we were going to have to do 11 as far as an infirmary or anything once you went 12 over the 200 beds, the infirmary is just 13 recommended. It's a should, not a shall. I talked 14 to Brandon Wood. The only thing we would be 15 required to have over 200 beds is a negative 16 pressure cell, one, and we already have one. 17 So, as far as meals and that, we would 18 do them just like we do juvenile detention, make 19 them and run them out to the facility and do a 20 dorm-type facility at 48 or 96 beds would be better. 21 But it's something if you're going to look at a 22 building, it's going to have to be looked at in the 23 short term rather than long term. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the best 25 option you have come up with in a long time. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 51 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would be 2 recommending since we are already at 51 minimum and 3 we would be moving out some looking at a 96 minimum 4 bed security. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There you go 6 again. You started out at 42 and now 96. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do it in 48 8 increments because of guard housing. That's the 9 best way and that's how you can feed them and house 10 them together. But if you're going to look at it 11 for a 15 year deal, you need to look at 96 beds. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How about we look at it 13 17. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine, too. 15 I mean, whatever, but we have got 51. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that 48? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 48 would be -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have 51 right 20 now as we speak minimum security, and that would 21 move 15 -- 51 out of the current jail, which would 22 drop that -- you know, we're averaging 145 or 23 whatever and drop it down to say 100 and now you 24 have taken up 16 of those beds for females. Okay. 25 So, now you're back up to 120. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these cells 2 kind of like the Andy Griffith Show where he always 3 has his own set of keys? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Push bar doors. 5 If you can remember what we built down here in the 6 parking lot when we closed that in, it's minimum 7 security. It's built out of conventional materials, 8 Sheetrock, push bar doors, but it would be inside 9 that 10-foot razor wire fence and I would recommend 10 adding a little bit more to that, but otherwise it's 11 the best alternative I have seen to be able to fill 12 our jail issues. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a heck of a 14 lot less. 15 MS. HARGIS: There is one thing that 16 we would like y'all to consider. On the phone 17 system, the cell phones, we need to see if we can't 18 get a contract that would include both voice and 19 texting because the texting part is really costing 20 us because we don't have it included in the 21 contract, so we need to include that. The officers, 22 the juvenile probation officers have to have it. 23 The judges have to have it. There are several of 24 them, so those are kind of separate. That was not 25 part of the cell phone. It was just voice and so we GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 53 1 need to think about that because they're including 2 it in a lot of the plans now for nominal or minimum. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many phone 4 systems are we paying for that we're not using? Are 5 we done with all that? 6 MS. HARGIS: No. We still really have 7 some lap-over unfortunately between Windstream -- we 8 are getting there, but we still have the lap-over. 9 We have a second system that we want anyway and 10 we're going to have as a backup system, but we don't 11 have the jail totally off yet and we have some areas 12 that are just not off yet. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of them are also 14 fax machines and as those machines need service or 15 wear out, he switches them over to scanners and 16 that's kind of the transition process. 17 MR. TROLINGER: We have services from 18 Windstream at the jail and the sheriff's office and 19 even the courthouse that we will have for sometime. 20 These are just individual phone lines that are 21 either fax lines and backup that are hooked up to 22 the new system that serve dual purpose or there are 23 lines that we have to have for -- you know, to get 24 from Windstream. We've got a DSL modem, for 25 instance, at the sheriff's office that is providing GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 54 1 service for something that that's what we're going 2 to continue using. So, the Windstream is not going 3 to go to zero if that's what the question is on this 4 overlap where we are talking about the phone system, 5 but the jail and sheriff's office is completely 6 switched over to the new phone system. It's just we 7 have these additional phone lines from Windstream 8 that we are still carrying. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, we don't 10 have any way of having a reasonable estimate to work 11 with on our health benefits plans at this point, do 12 we? 13 MS. HARGIS: I'm not in the loop on 14 that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, as early 16 as it is in the game, you know, we're -- we can't 17 even take a shot in the dark I don't think at this 18 point. 19 MS. HARGIS: Based on what Ms. Hyde 20 said and Gary, I think they have three months out is 21 August. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think 23 the health benefits what I would like to have is 24 between now and soon, whenever, is kind of a 25 discussion philosophically should we -- I keep GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 55 1 hearing us going back towards a self-funded plan is 2 the better option to go, then I hear others telling 3 me that, no, we should stay with our fully funded 4 that we are doing right now. And, you know, I would 5 like to hear a discussion as to the pros and cons of 6 each of those long term because I firmly believe 7 that changing back and forth is not good, and some 8 of the people that are telling us that it's not 9 good, that it's costing us money, they won't even 10 look at us because we keep switching. So, I really 11 think that this is the year that we kind of look at 12 that long term where we need to go and figure out, 13 you know, maybe if we adjust the plan some to get 14 there, but I'd like to have that discussion and 15 Mr. Looney needs to be here for that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner 18 Letz, I agree with you 100 percent on that. That 19 was a good statement for a boy from Comfort. That's 20 good. Insurance and -- at what point are we going 21 to talk about salaries? Because I understand that 22 there is some longevity stuff that we are going to 23 deal with this year and -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Some longevity? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, those GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 56 1 folks that -- kind of like longevity. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: As far as I know I 3 think the longevity program, we're still doing that. 4 I don't think that's been modified in any respect. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When are we 6 going to talk about salaries? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do it right now 8 if you want to. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not the 10 salary person. Is the salary person in the room? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the salary person 12 isn't here. I threw it out on the table the first 13 round out of the box, if you recall. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And I appreciate you 16 mentioning it again because I think we need to talk 17 about it early up front. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, we do. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Because I think the 20 point was made when we were talking about it before 21 that by virtue of our health benefits program we 22 took them from essence of a $400 deductible to a 23 $3,000 deductible which I think someone translated 24 to an average 9 percent reduction in overall 25 compensation. In addition, the CVI index that we GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 57 1 commonly look at is moving up again and anybody that 2 buys gasoline and anything, commodity prices, 3 grains, things of that nature, why it's going nuts. 4 And there was a report just within the last week or 5 so about some pretty fast escalation of that CPI in 6 relation to discussions about what the feds are 7 going to do on their free money policy to the banks, 8 about maybe having to adjust that to keep the 9 inflation aspect down. 10 But if you need the salary person here 11 to talk about salaries, I guess we'll have to do 12 that on another day. 13 MS. MAGENHEIMER: Judge, is there a 14 message I need to take back to Eva? She's in 15 San Antonio with her mom today while she's having 16 surgery. Is there any message on these last two 17 items that I need to take back to Eva? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just 19 schedule -- I think she just needs to schedule a 20 meeting with Mr. Looney present -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to go over the 23 health care, I mean, the more -- not necessarily 24 the -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Fully insured versus -- GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- partially 3 self-funded plan, the pros and cons of each of 4 those, what's the good news or bad news of switching 5 back and forth. 6 MS. GRINSTEAD: We already have that 7 set up. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of historic 9 costs. 10 MS. GRINSTEAD: May 18th is what y'all 11 talked about at the last meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Historic cost, 13 anticipated trends. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May 18th 15 Mr. Looney would be here. 16 MS. GRINSTEAD: That's what Eva was 17 going to try to do. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. We have 19 already talked about it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That sounds like 21 enough for one. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I have got it 23 plugged in for that time at nine o'clock. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, good for 25 you. GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What feeble memory I 2 have. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a -- 4 that's the Monday in between. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a Wednesday. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, it's a 7 Wednesday? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are they going to 10 have a tax representative here at that time too to 11 talk about the tax program? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was scheduled. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I thought that 14 was after. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But verify if she got 16 that nailed down with Mr. Looney. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We want a tax 18 person here. 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: Also a tax person. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to hear what 21 they have to say. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they told 24 us we can't -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To tell us how GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 60 1 stupid we are about changing insurances every year, 2 insurance providers every year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're going to 4 tell us how accomplished we are. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time is 6 that meeting? What time of the day is that meeting? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Nine o'clock. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that 9 daylight savings or -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It's local time, yeah. 11 Is that about all we can wring out today? Are you 12 hungry, Buster? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does any member 15 of the Court have anything else they want to throw 16 out on the table? Let me ask if somebody out 17 here -- apparently there is not. Our workshop will 18 be adjourned. 19 (Commissioners Court workshop 20 adjourned at 12:11 a.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 23 24 25 GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223 61 1 STATE OF TEXAS ) 2 COUNTY OF KERR ) 3 I, Robin J. Brame, reporter for Kerr County, 4 Texas do hereby certify that the above and foregoing 5 is a true and complete transcription of my stenotype 6 notes taken at the time and place heretofore set 7 forth. 8 WITNESS MY HAND this the 9th day of May, 2011. 9 ___________________________ 10 ROBIN J. BRAME Texas CSR 5325 11 Expiration Date: 12/31/12 GREENWALT COURT REPORTING 12 245 Waring-Welfare Road Boerne, Texas 78006 13 (830)537-4223 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GREENWALT COURT REPORTING (830) 537-4223