1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 9, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 9, 2011 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 6 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 12 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to remove wolves from Dangerous Wild Animals list 14 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 6 request to change hours of operation at the temporary location of the Butt Holdsworth 7 Memorial Library during the renovation 24 8 1.3 Presentation and discussion of initial assessment regarding the need to redistrict the county 9 commissioner precincts based on recently issued 2010 census data 26 10 1.4 Discussion of traditional redistricting criteria 11 and possible adoption of criteria to be utilized by County for 2011 redistricting process 26, 12 66 1.5 Discussion and possible action to adopt 13 redistricting guidelines which set standards for public participation for 2011 redistricting 26, 14 67 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 15 regarding County's redistricting obligations (Executive Session) 26 16 1.7 Public Hearing concerning the road name of 17 "Ed's Way West", Precinct 4 46 18 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final approval of proposed road name of "Ed's 19 Way West", Precinct 4 47 20 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on elimination of reimbursement to employees for 21 dues or use fees paid by employees to fitness facilities 48 22 1.10 Acknowledge receipt of Quarterly Investment 23 report from Patterson and Associates for quarter ending 03-31-11 52 24 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 reappoint Hugh Jons and Ron Vick to 911 Board of Directors 53 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 9, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit report for Office of Kerr County 4 Treasurer 53 5 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve audit of basic financial statements and 6 supplementary information for year ended September 30, 2010 from Neffendorf, Knopp, Doss & Co., P.C. 55 7 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 declare 2 Ford pickups as surplus to be used as trade-in on another vehicle 55 9 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 contract with H.H.S.C. office of Inspector General with local prosecuting authorities 56 11 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 appoint a member of Commissioners Court to designate a person to perform investigation under 13 Section 751.005 of Texas Health and Safety Code 59 14 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to increase RV hook-up fees at H.C.Y.E.C. 68 15 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 appoint Rhonda Hickey as member of Kerr County Child Services Board 71 17 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 18 implementation of the burn ban 71 19 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve a proclamation from Community Council 20 of South Central Texas declaring May 2011 Community Action Month 72 21 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 22 approve signage being placed in Flat Rock Lake Park depicting a 5 m.p.h. speed limit 73 23 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 proposed interlocal agreements with City of Kerrville for various services and/or operations 76 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 9, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve guidelines for Colonia Grant On-Site 4 Sewage Facilities Assistance Program, Contract #710065; allow County Judge to sign same --- 5 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 6 regarding temporary construction easements for Arrowhead Road improvement and low-water bridge 7 construction project 113 8 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to enter an order declaring a public purpose and 9 necessity for acquisition of .004 acre temporary construction easement out of a 6.8 acre tract 10 for the Arrowhead Road improvement and low-water bridge construction project, which includes street 11 reconstruction along Arrowhead Road, as well as reconstructions of low-water bridge and other 12 improvements to reduce flooding and alleviate safety concerns for human life, and authorizing 13 institution of condemnation proceedings to acquire those land rights. (Executive Session, as needed) --- 14 4.1 Pay Bills 115 15 4.2 Budget Amendments 115 4.3 Late Bills --- 16 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 116 17 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 117 18 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 121 19 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to confer with County Attorney on legal issues 20 related to Chapters 32 and 46 of the Texas Government Code, Chapter 152 of Texas Human 21 Resource Code, and Chapter 111 of Texas Local Government Code. (Executive Session, as needed) --- 22 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 confer with County Attorney regarding pending litigation involving Kerr County (Executive 24 Session, as needed) --- 25 --- Adjourned 128 5 1 On Monday, May 9, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 9 date and time, May 9, 2011, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 10 Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please stand and join me in a 12 moment of prayer followed by the pledge. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Please be seated. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 17 that wishes to be heard on a matter which is not a listed 18 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 19 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on an 20 agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form. 21 There should be some located at the rear of the room. That 22 helps me know that there's someone to speak on that 23 particular item, and hopefully I don't -- don't overlook you. 24 If we get to an agenda item, you've not filed a participation 25 form and wish to be heard, that's fine too. Just get my 5-9-11 6 1 attention in some manner and I'll give you the opportunity to 2 be heard. But right now, if there's any member of the public 3 or audience that wishes to be heard on any matter which is 4 not a listed agenda item, come forward, give us your name and 5 address, and tell us what's on your mind. 6 MR. PRENDERGAST: Morning, gentlemen. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 8 MR. PRENDERGAST: My name's George Prendergast. I 9 live at 120 Peterson Farm Road. Couple of things I wanted to 10 hand out here, if it's all right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just give me all of them, if 12 you want to. 13 MR. PRENDERGAST: I don't want to give you all of 14 them. I'll give you enough. Is there enough there? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 MR. PRENDERGAST: It takes a while to read that, 17 but it's -- you know, it's national pet week, and I thought 18 maybe we could talk about the pets that nobody wants. This 19 was an e-mail, as you can see, that was sent out to a few of 20 our elected officials and county employees here, and I -- it 21 will take you a bit of time to read through it, so with that 22 being said, I -- a few things have come to my attention. As 23 y'all well know, sometimes I probably stick my nose into 24 things that I shouldn't stick my nose into, but when -- when 25 things start happening that I feel like that just aren't 5-9-11 7 1 right, I think we need to talk about it. Here's some 2 additional documents that were introduced as evidence in the 3 Tuma case. I may not have enough copies for everybody, but I 4 can get you more if anybody wants these. 5 MS. VAN WINKLE: I do. 6 MR. PRENDERGAST: Having looked at a recent paper, 7 came out Saturday, I guess, the San Antonio paper, it has 8 begun to concern me a lot that, you know, we got a lot of 9 public bullying going on by elected officials. Specifically, 10 in the Tuma case, Fourth Court of Appeals told the District 11 Court that the County had no standing to sue the Tumas. "No 12 standing" means it didn't have any right. It wasn't -- it 13 just wasn't right for the County to sue the Tumas because the 14 statutes don't allow for it. Therefore, we had a settlement 15 with the Tumas. As part of that settlement with the Tumas, 16 we've continued to use the insurance law to -- "bully," I 17 guess, is the best word, or in law enforcement I guess you 18 use "excessive force," I'm not sure, to make people with 19 these wild critters that we don't want in this county, to 20 make them not comply, not get their permits, deny their 21 permits, and use the insurance as the driving force. 22 Now, the statute on insurance with regard to wild 23 animals has not changed since -- I believe it was 2001, 2002. 24 It hasn't changed since the Tuma lawsuit. The statute is 25 what it is. It says you got to have $100,000 of liability 5-9-11 8 1 insurance for each occurrence, which is like the Legislature 2 telling you you got to have car insurance for $20,000. And 3 if you got that minimum coverage, you met the law. What Kerr 4 County is doing is they're telling people with these 5 endangered animals that they have to have more insurance, 6 with specific language in that insurance policy that the 7 statute does not require. It ain't right. We're beating 8 people up and we're bullying them. We're using excessive 9 force. And is it collusion? I don't know if it's collusion. 10 You know, you got people that seems to be saying things and 11 doing things, poisoning the public minds and saying, "These 12 wild animals are dangerous to you. We got to get them out of 13 here." 14 I don't think anybody's been hurt by one of them 15 yet. The only reason one Bengal tiger got out two and a half 16 years ago is because the pen was not constructed to state 17 standards, and that's the only reason that Bengal tiger got 18 out. If the County had been doing their job, if they had 19 made sure that those pens were constructed to state 20 standards, the chances of that cat getting out were slim. 21 But the reason those pens weren't constructed to state 22 standards is 'cause the County had not been issuing permits 23 for this Bengal tiger for six years. Six years. You know, 24 it ain't right when the County tries to cover up their 25 mistakes. 'Cause everybody knows I make mistakes all the 5-9-11 9 1 time, and a lot of people know about them. I'm not pure as 2 the driven snow, either. But when elected officials start 3 beating up on people and telling them they have to have 4 things that the state law says they don't have to have, it 5 ain't right. And then when you go and try to change the 6 state law to make it fit that -- that peg you want it to go 7 in after you've had a lawsuit, and after you've tried to 8 change the law here in this Commissioners Court while that 9 lawsuit was proceeding, it ain't right. It just ain't right. 10 Now, you know, if a county commissioner goes out 11 here and he uses county equipment for personal use, it ain't 12 right. If the County Attorney goes in here and uses his 13 staff, people who work for you guys, and makes them go in and 14 talk and -- and say things that -- I don't know if they're 15 right or not, but he's using resources of this county to an 16 end that has no validity. You know, I think law enforcement, 17 if they go out here with a billy club and beat somebody up, 18 it's called excessive force. As an elected official, if you 19 go out here and beat somebody up, sue them, make them run up 20 a lot of damn legal bills, is that excessive force? We've 21 tried to poison the public. We've tried to tell everybody 22 we're getting justice here. I don't know if it's justice 23 spelled j-u-s-t u-s." What kind of justice is this? Have we 24 got the best local government that money can buy? Are we 25 serving the few? Are we taking lawsuits and introducing 5-9-11 10 1 bills in the Legislature to make a few people happy, or just 2 to beat a few people up? Which is it? Either way, it ain't 3 right. 4 Now, this County's had a history here recently of 5 some malfeasance with elected officials. It's time for it to 6 stop, gentlemen. And I would hope that someone would start 7 doing some more investigation. It's beginning to cost me 8 money. And I don't know -- I'm not sure -- is Linda here 9 today? Well, shoot. You know, I went out to get copies -- 10 all that letter says -- I think it's -- yeah it's addressed 11 to Mr. Henneke and Bruce, Ms. Whitt. What it says is that 12 you can't be telling people what kind of insurance you're 13 supposed to have, because you probably are not an insurance 14 expert. It goes further on to say that if you're a game 15 warden or an animal control person or somebody of that 16 nature, you're probably not an expert in insurance. And 17 after having read that last week, I remembered that we had an 18 animal control -- assistant animal control person testify in 19 the Tuma case that the insurance was not any good. And he 20 signed that and dated it, and it was filed of record out in 21 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4. So, I went to get a copy 22 of it the other day, and first I was denied the deal, and 23 then finally Judge Ragsdale came out and gave me a copy of 24 it. 25 But, you know, I've checked records all over the 5-9-11 11 1 state. I've always had access to court clerks' records, 2 county clerks' records, and I think the same law that applies 3 to them applies to the justice of the peace. I had to fill 4 out a handwritten form for -- what do you call it, Judge? 5 Anyway, I had to fill out this form, and they gave me the 6 deal, but they charged me a dollar a page for every copy. 7 And I -- you know, the most I've ever paid anywhere -- in the 8 county clerk's, you always pay a dollar a page, but I was 9 charged a dollar a page, $22, and I think it's a dollar a 10 page for the first page, and 25 cents thereafter. But I'll 11 check into it, and if I've been overcharged, who do I see 12 about getting my money back, Judge? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably the Treasurer. 14 MR. PRENDERGAST: Well, okay. Anyway, it ain't 15 right, you know, when the justice of the peace initially 16 doesn't want to give me a file because it has to do with the 17 Tumas. Are we covering up another poop pile, that we're just 18 going to wait until it stinks so bad that somebody has to go 19 around and go, "Whew, let's clean this one up, too"? Thank 20 you, gentlemen. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the public that 22 wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda 23 item? Any other member of the public wishes to be heard on 24 any matter which is not a listed agenda item? 25 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, I'd just like to make a couple 5-9-11 12 1 points, just to make sure -- I know we have a lot of members 2 of the media here, and to make sure that we're, you know, 3 clear on some of the statements that have been made. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want to put it on the agenda, 5 that opportunity. Otherwise, you're going to have to speak 6 as a member of the public, just like that gentleman did. 7 Either way you want to handle it, but insofar as responding, 8 we're not permitted, on -- on visitors' input, to go ahead 9 and -- and delve into these things. 10 MR. HENNEKE: I understand that. It's not anything 11 on the agenda item, and I don't want to take up this Court's 12 time on something that's not on the agenda. I'm just more 13 than glad to, at any time, visit with a member of the Court, 14 visit with Mr. Prendergast, if he would like to meet with me, 15 or any members of the media to clear up the misstatements of 16 facts and misunderstandings that he seems to be 17 communicating -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 19 MR. HENNEKE: -- on something he's not involved in. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move on with our agenda, if 21 there's no one else needing to come forward and tell us 22 something that's not on the agenda. Commissioner Letz, do 23 you have anything for us this morning? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 5-9-11 13 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I do, Judge. I think 2 there was a mention just a few minutes ago about celebrating 3 national pet week. It seems that some of these things were 4 circulated in my name, with my name on them. I don't know 5 where they came from, but I sure as heck didn't have anything 6 to do with it. But they were sent -- as far as I know, the 7 Commissioners Court, excluding myself, got one. County 8 Attorney got one, and all three newspapers. And I'll be glad 9 to pass it around for y'all to look at, if you'd like to see 10 what it says. I don't appreciate it a whole lot, but, you 11 know, with public office, your skin's got to be pretty thick, 12 and it is. So, I just want y'all to know that if you think I 13 had something to do with that, something's deadly wrong. 14 That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Overby? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Just on the upbeat, on the 19 Mother's Day weekend, I think we all had a good time with -- 20 I know I'm blessed to have mothers and mother-in-laws that 21 are still living, and I know many of you may have mothers and 22 in-laws that are still here. We had a good time this 23 weekend, and again, a belated happy Mother's Day to our folks 24 in our audience today. It was a good weekend. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's get on with our 5-9-11 14 1 agenda. We've got several timed items at the front end of 2 the agenda. The first item is Item 1; consider, discuss, 3 take appropriate action to remove wolves from the dangerous 4 wild animals list. Anthony Matone. Is he present? 5 MR. MATONE: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward. Give us your name and 7 address, and tell us what you have on this agenda item. 8 MR. MATONE: My name is Anthony Matone. I'm from 9 Way To Go Exotics. I currently reside 39 miles from 10 Kerrville courthouse right here, so I'm a pretty good ways 11 out of town here. But about two years ago, when the tiger 12 incident came up, they decided that they're going to start 13 going by state statute here on the dangerous and wild 14 animals, and they came up with the list that the state 15 presented and everything. And we came to the courthouse, and 16 they just kind of wanted a rule on how they were going to do 17 it, and they decided everybody was going to have to abide by 18 the statute and get their permits and everything. And the -- 19 the list that they had in court here -- I gave you a copy of 20 it. The first one there, wolves are nowhere on this list. 21 They're not on the state's list anywhere. There is no 22 statute to have wolves or anything. The County, on the 23 second one, B there, it shows they did -- on the 26th day of 24 November, 2001, by the Commissioners Court, they added wolves 25 to the list, okay? But it just says wolves; it doesn't say 5-9-11 15 1 hybrids or anything else. The other list says hybrids. 2 And I currently own wolves, and when I first got 3 wolves, I didn't know wolves were on the list. I have the 4 list from the county here -- from the state, and the county 5 came out -- and the only list that's ever been produced and 6 everything have never had wolves on it. And then Rob Henneke 7 sent me -- or I think Janie Whitt sent me the list, where 8 wolves were added to the list. And it becomes a little bit 9 of a problem, because according to the county statute, you 10 have to send money to the state to register your animals with 11 the state. Well, there's no place to send it, and if you -- 12 when you go ahead and you mail the money to the state, 13 they're like, "Well, what's this money for? Wolves aren't on 14 our list." So, you have two different lists here superseding 15 each other. 16 I also made a copy of the -- the check where I paid 17 the money to the state on my wolves and stuff, and then I 18 have my list from last year where it shows that the wolves 19 were on there. And then another thing is the insurance. 20 You know, on Number 5 on your list there, I have the state 21 statute in the insurance, which is Section 822.107, liability 22 insurance to the owner, and it says what you have to have for 23 the state, okay? Now, Rob Henneke -- and the next one is 24 what he sent me, what he requires. Now, who actually -- 25 I'm -- I might be kind of in the dark here. I don't know if 5-9-11 16 1 Rob Henneke makes the law or y'all make the law, or what it 2 is -- or he represents you. But here's a copy of his e-mail 3 where it actually says that you have to have off-premise 4 insurance. 5 Now, I tried a month ago to try to get my insurance 6 to meet his requirements. I couldn't. I sold all my -- I 7 sold my baboons; I sold my mountain lion. I got rid of my 8 bobcats. I got rid of all my dangerous animals that were on 9 the state's list. I no longer have any. But -- because I 10 couldn't find the insurance to meet it. And I don't -- I 11 should have checked into it further at the time to find out 12 if what Rob said is correct, or what the actual law is, but 13 according to state statute, all you need is $100,000 per 14 occurrence of liability, of damage destruction or damage to 15 property, death, bodily injury; that's all that you need. 16 You do not -- it doesn't say anything in there, where the 17 e-mail that Rob sent me saying that it -- it also details 18 exactly what he wanted it to say in there on the insurance 19 policy. So, I -- I just got tired of fighting it and got rid 20 of all my wild and dangerous animals. But the wolves are not 21 on the state's list, and I wanted to see about getting them 22 off the county list, because they're not on the state list. 23 And the reason why the state took them off their 24 list back in -- what was that, '02? -- back in '01, when the 25 State had them on the list, the reason why they had to take 5-9-11 17 1 them off is 'cause -- the reason is "hybrid" was on there. 2 And my wolves aren't pure; they're hybrids. And on the 3 state's list, it says any of the animals on the list or 4 hybrids, you cannot have. My wolves are hybrids. There's so 5 many animals -- dogs out there that are hybrids, and they 6 came from the wolves, so the state removed them from their 7 list, but they still remain on the county's list. And I 8 wanted to see about, you know, getting hybrid wolves off the 9 list. And according to the paperwork that the state or the 10 county did, it doesn't say anything about hybrids. It just 11 says wolves on there. If you look at "B" that I gave you, it 12 just says wolves; it doesn't say hybrids, so I'm not even 13 sure if I fall under the hybrids, if that's something I'll 14 have a problem with down the road. But my permit's due this 15 month here, so I need to know what the verdict is on the 16 wolves issue. But I've gotten rid of all my other wild and 17 dangerous animals, and I would like to know something about 18 the insurance, if it's -- if Mr. Henneke is in charge of 19 making up the rules of what the insurance is, and represents 20 y'all, or if it's what the state statute says it is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Matone, let me see if I 22 understand correctly. Initially, when the state statutes 23 came into being, that -- with relation to dangerous wild 24 animals, -- 25 MR. MATONE: Yes, sir. 5-9-11 18 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they had wolf on the list? 2 MR. MATONE: I've never seen wolf on a list 3 anywhere. That's just what I've heard. But I've never seen 4 wolf on any list that the state had. All I know is the state 5 list that I was given in this courtroom, and which the county 6 has sent me -- the county sent me all the paperwork on what 7 the dangerous animals were and everything. And I've never 8 seen wolf on a list here at all. On any of it, even the ones 9 that we had in court two years ago, wolves were never on it. 10 And then when the state requires you to file your permit and 11 everything, wolves weren't on that. And what the gentleman 12 was talking about earlier about pens, and the state statute 13 tells you how to build your pens, what you need and all that, 14 it doesn't even have any requirements in the state statute on 15 wolves on that. So, I mean, what are we going off of? I 16 don't know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you saying that currently, under 18 state statutes and under what this Court has adopted, there's 19 no mention of wolves? 20 MR. MATONE: No, sir. Under state statute, there's 21 no mention -- since I gave you the paperwork of the county 22 there, the first one, you can see that highlighted section 23 right there. There is no wolves on there anywhere. And then 24 there's another section on the -- on the county statute that 25 tells you how you need to build your pens and all that. But 5-9-11 19 1 if you look at next sheet, that is the one where this court 2 right here, on the 26th day of November, 2001 -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm with you. I'm with you. 4 MR. MATONE: Commissioner Griffin -- they went on 5 ahead and they added wolves to the list. But it just says 6 wolves; it doesn't say hybrids. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds to me like it was done 8 in error. Needs to be corrected. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- just to answer your 10 question, my recollection of this -- it's been on the agenda 11 many times -- is that our law -- our county law models state 12 law. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if wolves were removed at 15 some point from the state law, it would have been my intent 16 to remove them from the county, because we're trying to 17 follow the state -- the state statute. That's what -- I 18 mean, that's my -- we've dealt with this for a long, long 19 time, and once in a while this comes up, but that's kind of 20 my recollection. So, if wolves are on it, I think we -- I 21 don't know that we can do it under the agenda item today, but 22 I think the intent that I've always had is that our law in 23 the county models state law. 24 MR. HENNEKE: If I could jump in, gentlemen, just 25 to be clear, there is no county law. There's the state law, 5-9-11 20 1 and then there's the 2001 -- November 2001 Commissioners 2 Court order which Mr. Matone has referred to which adopted 3 the requirements of the state law and put those into effect 4 as far as county enforcement. So, that the Commissioners 5 Court order adopting the dangerous wild animals regulations 6 of 822, Subchapter E, of the Health and Safety Code, that 7 order's never been changed in 10 years. And the only 8 requirements that are in place is that this county, through 9 its Commissioners Court, has adopted the state law 10 requirements from back in 2001. And part of the order 11 adopted by the Court includes wolves on the list. I agree 12 with Mr. Matone, under 822.101, the dangerous wild animal 13 statute where it gives the list of 19 animals, which are -- 14 MR. MATONE: I already gave them the list, sir. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. Wolves are not on that list. 16 Now, as far as the other part goes, you know, 822.107 of the 17 Health and Safety Code sets forth insurance requirements. 18 I've never said -- Kerr County's never said that anyone needs 19 to do anything other than comply with the state law 20 requirements. It requires that you have 100,000 per 21 occurrence insurance if your animal hurts somebody or causes 22 damage, and Kerr County's not requiring anything more. 23 MR. MATONE: Would you like to read your e-mail 24 that you sent me? 25 MR. HENNEKE: Well, Mr. Matone -- 5-9-11 21 1 MR. MATONE: It states it plain as day, in black 2 and white. 3 MR. HENNEKE: You asked me for an example of 4 language -- 5 MR. MATONE: You stated it in black and white. Do 6 you want to -- it even says here what you would like it to 7 read. 8 MR. HENNEKE: I'm not going to engage in a debate 9 in court. I'm just going to say that this Kerr County 10 Commissioners Court order has adopted the requirements of 11 state law. That's what's been in place for 10 years, and 12 nothing different has changed, nor am I doing anything 13 different than what this Court has adopted and the statute 14 requires. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: With respect to wolves, is it my 16 understanding that the appropriate action for the Court 17 today, under the agenda item, would be to rescind our Order 18 Number 27331 adopted 26 November 2001, insofar as it adds 19 wolves to the list of prohibited animals? 20 MR. HENNEKE: I'm not -- I assume that that's the 21 order that added wolves -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. HENNEKE: -- to the list. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That is. 25 MR. HENNEKE: And I would agree that wolves are not 5-9-11 22 1 on the current list of dangerous wild animals. So, for this 2 Court to remove wolves from that list would still be in 3 conformance with the list of 18, 19 animals which are listed 4 as dangerous wild animals, and which this Court has adopted 5 its order saying we conform with the state law requirements. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the date of the -- 7 when we adopted the state law? 8 MR. MATONE: November 2001, the 25th day. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 26th. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The one where we did wolves. 11 MR. HENNEKE: There was two. And I don't know why, 12 10 years ago -- I haven't researched it. I haven't pulled 13 the transcripts. There's the -- the order, and then there 14 was a supplemental order. And -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that our action 16 would be, Judge, just to clarify that our -- that we're -- 17 the law that's adopted is current state law, and that that 18 list does not include wolves. I mean, I think removing 19 wolves is kind of -- I don't think wolves are on the list. I 20 mean -- 21 MR. MATONE: They're not, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: They're not. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a conflict, I guess, if 24 we -- if we're saying -- if we have a court order that says 25 we added wolves, then we also have another court order that 5-9-11 23 1 says we're following state law, we need to clarify that. You 2 either rescind that court order -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could rescind the court 4 order, and that'll do it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, that's what I'm thinking. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Insofar as it directed that wolves 8 be added to the list of prohibited animals. And I think that 9 -- that solves the issue. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll so move that. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And can we do that under 14 this agenda item? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appropriate action. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. We have a motion and a 19 second to rescind Court Order Number 27331 passed by this 20 Court on 26 November 2001. To the extent that it added 21 wolves to the list of prohibited animals, that we rescind 22 that, actually. Further question or discussion? All in 23 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-9-11 24 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Thank you, Mr. 3 Matone. Let's go to Item 2, if we might; to consider, 4 discuss, take appropriate action on request to change hours 5 of operation at the temporary location of the Butt-Holdsworth 6 Memorial Library during the renovation. Ms. Kim Meismer with 7 the City of Kerrville. Director of Operations; is that 8 correct? 9 MS. MEISMER: Director of General Operations, yes, 10 sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. MEISMER: Good morning, Judge Tinley and 13 Commissioners. I'm here to request your approval to change 14 the operating hours of the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library 15 while we're doing the renovation of the library. We're going 16 to temporarily relocate the operations to the History Center, 17 and that's going to begin July the 5th. We're going to close 18 the library down May -- yeah, May 22nd through July 5th, so 19 that we can prepare and move everything over, and 433 Water 20 Street can move at that time. But right now, our current 21 hours are 54 total hours per week, open seven days a week, 22 and we are requesting to be open 40 hours per week and close 23 on Sunday and Monday. And I believe you should have a copy 24 of this spreadsheet, and I am just requesting your approval. 25 This has been approved by the Library Advisory Board, and 5-9-11 25 1 also by the City Council of Kerrville. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is we have no 3 authority. I mean, I don't think we need to take any action, 4 'cause we have no say in the operation of the library. Never 5 have. 6 MS. MEISMER: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- I understand 8 the reason to do it, and support it, but I don't think we can 9 take action to do it. 10 MS. MEISMER: That's really what we want, is your 11 support. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fine with me. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a possibility you might 15 look at that on a permanent basis? 16 MS. MEISMER: No sir. We want to be open seven 17 days a week. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about number of hours, not 19 relocating everything. 20 MS. MEISMER: No, we want to maintain our operation 21 at 54 hours and stay open seven days a week for the citizens. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Anything further, 23 Ms. Meismer? 24 MS. MEISMER: No, sir. Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you 5-9-11 26 1 being here. 2 MS. MEISMER: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 3, our 9:05 timed 4 item, to -- actually, I'm going to call Items 3, 4, and 5 5 together. Item 3, presentation and discussion of initial 6 assessment regarding the need to redistrict the county 7 commissioner precincts based on recently issued 2010 census 8 data. Item 4, discussion of traditional redistricting 9 criteria and possible adoption of criteria to be utilized by 10 the County for the 2011 redistricting process. And Item 5, 11 discussion and possible action to adopt redistricting 12 guidelines which set standards for public participation for 13 the 2011 redistricting. And let me raise a question about 14 Item 6. I notice that it mentions executive session under 15 Government Code, Section 551.071. My question is, is it 16 essential that we have executive session on that particular 17 item? 18 MS. FRYER: Judge, we do need to have a very brief 19 executive session on redistricting. Yes, we do. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But to the extent there may 21 be public discussion, let me go ahead and call Item 6, to 22 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding the 23 County's redistricting obligations. There's certainly a 24 portion of that that can occur in the clear. 25 MS. FRYER: Most of this is going to be in open 5-9-11 27 1 session, Judge Tinley. We need to have just a few minutes 2 for me to advise the Court about some legal aspects that are 3 attorney/client privileged. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have with us today Ms. Catherine 5 Fryer from Bickerstaff in Austin, and she's here to bring us 6 up to speed on all that. 7 MS. FRYER: Thank you, Judge, and so nice to meet 8 all of you, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I'm 9 just going to have to go back and forth. If you can hear me, 10 I can just stand here and talk to you about your 11 redistricting. We are here to present orally, basically, a 12 summary of the report that we provided to you in writing on 13 the initial assessment for redistricting for 2010-2011. That 14 report is in much greater detail than what I'm going to go 15 through today. And, really, the purpose of my being here is 16 to talk to you about what the figures show for Kerr County. 17 The U.S. Constitution, through the 14th Amendment, equal 18 rights clause, requires one person/one vote, and that just 19 means that representatives of the people that are voted on in 20 single member districts have to come from districts that are 21 substantially the same size, so that everybody's vote is as 22 meaningful as everyone else's. 23 So, every ten years, when census data comes in, we 24 superimpose that data on your current commissioner precincts, 25 and we determine what an ideal precinct size is if everything 5-9-11 28 1 were even. Then we look at how far each precinct is from 2 that ideal size, and we determine -- we determine a 3 deviation. This is an example of a hypothetical political 4 subdivision that is out of balance, and this is -- the 5 deviation has to be 10 percent or less. So, we look at the 6 most populated precinct, the least populated precinct, and 7 the difference between the two. If it's over 10 percent, 8 then the political subdivision has to redistrict. And I'm 9 very happy to be able to tell you that Kerr County is in 10 population balance. It is under 10 percent. Its maximum 11 deviation is 8.96 percent, so you're in an enviable position 12 here. Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ma'am, even though that is 14 true, do we still have the ability to change some things? 15 MS. FRYER: We do. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 MS. FRYER: And I think that will become clear as 18 we go forward. Otherwise, I could just stop right now, but 19 we do have some other things that we need to think about. 20 The census data that we get is down to the census block 21 level, which is the smallest unit of census geography, and 22 for every single census block, we are able to tell you the 23 total population of that block, the voting age population of 24 that block, and the demographics of that block. If you have 25 your initial assessment report with you, under Tab A, this is 5-9-11 29 1 the chart that shows the breakdown of your total population 2 on the top and your voting age population on the bottom. We 3 use total population only for purposes of determining one 4 person/one vote. So, once we've determined either that 5 you're in balance or you're out of balance, total population 6 is out the window; we don't look at that top chart any more. 7 So, we have determined that you're in balance for 8 redistricting, one person/one vote principle, so we're not 9 going to be looking at total population any more. 10 Now we're looking at voting age population, and 11 this is this data that we use to measure the county's 12 compliance with the Voting Rights Act. Redistricting plans 13 have to be precleared either by the Department of Justice or 14 by a three-judge federal district court in the District of 15 Columbia. It doesn't make any sense to do it through the 16 three-judge court, because it's very expensive and 17 time-consuming, so everybody goes to the Department of 18 Justice to get preclearance. And they look at a plan to 19 determine whether or not it's retrogressive, and all they're 20 asking themselves is, are minorities worse off under a new 21 plan than under an old plan? Now, you don't have to 22 redistrict, but you can redistrict if you want to, if you 23 have reasons that you want to do that. And some of the 24 Section 2 voting rights issues come into play there as a 25 guide to whether or not you just want to change some of your 5-9-11 30 1 boundaries. And if you do, it has to go to the Department of 2 Justice to be precleared. But the only thing that they're 3 going to enforce is this Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. 4 They are only going to be concerned with retrogression in 5 your submission to the Department of Justice. Your justice 6 precincts are coterminous with your commissioner precincts. 7 But even if they weren't, they're not subject to one 8 person/one vote because they are elected officials, but they 9 don't sit as a representative body as you do, and so one 10 person/one vote does not apply to justice precincts. 11 Now, you may want to change your justice precincts 12 for administrative reasons, and if you do, it has to go 13 through the same process as a change in commissioner 14 boundaries would have to go through. And, again, D.O.J. 15 would have to preclear it, and they would evaluate it under 16 Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act as to whether or not there 17 were -- was any retrogression for minorities. So, Section 5 18 is what the D.O.J. looks at. But you also have to be aware 19 of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. That is not something 20 that the D.O.J. looks at. A challenge to Section 2, or 21 challenges that the County may be in violation of Section 2 22 would come from a third party or an organization representing 23 a minority group, and they are asking whether or not your 24 plan or your current circumstance violates Section 2 of the 25 Voting Rights Act by discriminating against a protected 5-9-11 31 1 group. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Protected group? 3 MS. FRYER: Protected minority group. African 4 Americans, Hispanic origin, Asian, that the -- the minority 5 groups that are identified under Section 5. I get a lot of 6 questions about the strength and growth of the minority 7 population in Texas, and in some areas -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You're reading my mind. 9 MS. FRYER: -- they are no longer a numerical 10 minority, but they are still considered by federal law to be 11 a protected group, and that would only change when federal 12 law changed. We're not able to waive it. You're not able to 13 waive it, so we still discuss those issues as they are 14 required to be discussed under federal law. Section 2 15 prohibits what we call cracking and packing. Cracking or 16 fracturing is when you have a geographically compact group of 17 minorities, and you split them up so as to dilute their 18 voting strength. Packing is where you have that same 19 geographically compact group, but you load them all into one 20 precinct so that they only have voting power in one precinct, 21 when they could have voting power in more than one precinct. 22 This is an example of cracking, where the minority stick 23 figures are represented by the red figures, the Anglo stick 24 figures by the blue figures. And this political subdivision 25 created three districts where the minority population has 5-9-11 32 1 only 40 percent voting strength in every district. This is 2 what we call cracking, because they have been separated so 3 that they do not have a majority in any district. 4 This is the other example. This is packing, where 5 the minorities have all been placed in -- not all, but almost 6 all of them placed in District 1, so that they only have vote 7 strength in District 1 when they could have voting strength 8 in more than one district. Once we get past deciding whether 9 or not the county has any Section 2 issues, then we have to 10 look at Shaw vs. Reno, which is a court-made doctrine. 11 United States Supreme Court determined that, yes, you have to 12 use race, obviously, when you're trying to comply with the 13 Voting Rights Act, but race can't be the predominant factor 14 in drawing any district or precinct, because that too 15 violates the 14th Amendment. So, it's sort of the "damned if 16 you do and damned if you don't" area of redistricting. Yes, 17 you have to take race into consideration, but you can only go 18 so far. 19 And let me show you an example of somebody who went 20 too far. This is -- District 12 was an obvious effort to 21 create a majority minority district. And the Court said, you 22 know, that's ugly. This is ridiculous. It's clear that the 23 only reason District 12 looks like this is because race was 24 the predominant factor. And here's an example that's a 25 little bit closer to home. This is Houston. The upper 5-9-11 33 1 left-hand corner is the Houston plan -- City of Houston plan 2 to create two majority minority districts in the red and the 3 green. And you -- you can't even tell that they are -- that 4 they're contiguous. There's little land bridges that connect 5 the various portions of the precincts. And the Court said 6 no. No, it's tortured. You can't do that. The Court redrew 7 the map to that beautiful map in the lower right-hand corner 8 and achieved the same thing. So, you can't do something 9 that's just bizarre on the basis of race. 10 So, what have we learned from Shaw vs. Reno? 11 Obviously, it's okay to consider race. We have to under the 12 Voting Rights Act, but it can't be the predominant factor, 13 and you have to avoid drawing bizarrely-shaped districts. If 14 race is the predominant factor, it might be able to be 15 approved if the plan was narrowly tailored to foster a 16 compelling state interest. Compliance with the Voting Rights 17 Act has been determined to be a compelling state interest. 18 But when they say narrow -- "narrowly tailored," what they're 19 saying is you have to use race as little as possible to 20 achieve that goal. So, even though you're using race as a 21 predominant factor in order to comply with Section 5 or 22 Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, you have to use it 23 minimally to achieve those purposes. 24 I'm not going to go over redistricting criteria in 25 the Power Point with you, because if we need to do that after 5-9-11 34 1 the executive session, you're not really -- I'm not asking 2 you to decide until after the executive session about whether 3 or not you want to redistrict. But you don't -- are not 4 legally obligated to do it under one person/one vote. So, 5 unless you want to redistrict, you're not going to be 6 adopting redistricting criteria today. Whenever you 7 redistrict, it's important to plan ahead, build a record. 8 Your counsel assists you in doing that, making sure that it 9 is an open process, making sure that you comply with 10 redistricting criteria and that you don't draw any crazy 11 looking plans. That would be what we would help you with. 12 We would analyze every plan for you in terms of its 13 compliance with redistricting criteria and the -- the legal 14 concepts that we're talking about today, and that are really 15 much more fully discussed in your written initial assessment. 16 This is the redistricting timeline. If you were to 17 decide to redistrict, we would need to get that filed by the 18 end of August, because the D.O.J. has 60 days to consider the 19 plan. There's -- the law says if they've got it on file for 20 60 days and they don't say yea or nay, then it's deemed to be 21 approved on the 61st day. But D.O.J. will never ever let 22 that happen, so if they get to the 60th day that they've had 23 your plan, and they haven't had time to review it and they 24 haven't had time to evaluate it, then they send a request for 25 additional information. And the law says if they request 5-9-11 35 1 additional information, the first 60 days is meaningless, and 2 a new 60 days starts as soon as we provide them with the 3 information that they requested. So, it's very easy for them 4 to get 120 days. We do our best to try to get our D.O.J. 5 submissions in as early as possible so that we don't run up 6 against that. We give them plenty of time, because they're 7 absolutely inundated with these plans. 8 On election precincts, you can adjust your county 9 election precincts for administrative purposes or any reasons 10 that you might have. You have to adjust them if you're out 11 of compliance with Chapter 42 of the Texas Election Code, 12 which says you can't have territory from more than one of 13 these listed jurisdictions in one election precinct. These 14 things can't really be determined until other political 15 subdivisions have gone through their redistricting process, 16 so for that reason, the timeline on submitting election 17 precinct changes doesn't even begin until September. I've 18 talked with Diane. She's got a few things that she's 19 thinking of that may need to be changed. If it turns out, at 20 the end of the redistricting process, you also have some 21 Chapter 42 issues, we would want to take care of that. But, 22 again, that doesn't begin until September, so you don't have 23 to worry about that today. 24 This is your benchmark plan, which shows the map, 25 shows your precincts, and this is the plan and how we arrived 5-9-11 36 1 at the information. You have -- the county now has a total 2 of 49,625 people. When you divide that by four commissioner 3 precincts, you get an ideal size of 12,406 people per 4 precinct. So, that's what -- the people who are actually in 5 each precinct are in Column 2, and Column 3 shows how far off 6 each precinct is from that ideal size of 12,406. Then you 7 take the largest precinct, which is Number 2, which is 4.84 8 over, and the smallest precinct, which is Number 3, which is 9 4.13 under. You add those together and you get a maximum 10 deviation of 8.96 percent, which means that you are in 11 compliance with one person/one vote. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I get 8.97. 13 MS. FRYER: And there's a -- a little footnote here 14 that says some percentages may be subject to rounding error. 15 These -- you know, these electronic gizmos, they go out to 16 this many places, so when they come up with a number, it 17 doesn't look like what the eyeball would see. So, this is 18 your dispersion of Hispanic population within the county. 19 This is your African American population within the county, 20 and this is your Asian population within the county. So, I 21 would be happy to answer questions and then have our brief 22 little executive session. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll start off -- go ahead, 24 if you want to do it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just going to ask the 5-9-11 37 1 question about Hispanic, black, and Asian. What about -- 2 what about the Germans from down in Comfort? (Laughter.) 3 MS. FRYER: They're not listed in the federal law. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's -- 5 MS. FRYER: You may need to write your congressman. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- not there. 7 MS. FRYER: You may need to write your congressman 8 about that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't exist. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't exist. 11 MS. FRYER: He's not protected. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We want a refund. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any questions, Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The question is, there has 15 been -- there's been a minor problem in between Precinct 1 16 and Precinct 4 for a very long time. It has to do with 17 voters having access. 18 MS. FRYER: Polling places? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. They have to drive 20 through about three or four to get to where they're supposed 21 to vote, plus drive about 40 miles to do it. And -- 22 MS. FRYER: We can change polling places. It would 23 require the filing of a submission and pre-approval from the 24 D.O.J. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's changing of the -- 5-9-11 38 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about changing -- 2 MS. FRYER: You're talking about -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- a minor change in the -- 4 in the commissioner precincts. 5 MS. FRYER: To your commissioner precinct 6 boundaries? That would require redistricting and submission 7 of the plan to the Department of Justice. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's been a problem for 9 probably well over 20 years. 10 MS. FRYER: Mm-hmm. It can be remedied, but you do 11 have to go through the complete redistricting process. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much trouble do you think 13 it is to re -- to redraw basically one little line? 14 MS. FRYER: It's not a lot of trouble, but the 15 whole process is time-consuming. You have to have a public 16 hearing. You have to have meetings on the plan. You -- we 17 have to prepare a report on the plan. We have to prepare the 18 submission. You know, it, just roughly, usually costs 19 $15,000 to $20,000. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not sure that we 21 shouldn't spend the money to do it correctly, and correct it 22 forever more. Because that -- 23 MS. FRYER: If you do determine that you want to 24 redistrict for any reason, then we do need to -- and it is on 25 the agenda today -- adopt the redistricting criteria and the 5-9-11 39 1 redistricting guidelines, because we can't draw a plan until 2 that is done. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If we should adopt the redistricting 5 criteria and guidelines, but make a decision ultimately not 6 to go forward, -- 7 MS. FRYER: No harm done. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- no harm, no foul? 9 MS. FRYER: Absolutely. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I was thinking. 11 MS. FRYER: So, let me take a minute to explain the 12 redistricting criteria and the redistricting guidelines. The 13 redistricting criteria is the criteria that you would use and 14 say that you're going to follow in drawing and adopting any 15 plan. And what's in there is what courts have recognized as 16 legitimate considerations for the courts to think about in 17 drawing a plan. First of all, that you're putting your 18 precincts in balance to comply with one person/one vote. You 19 are aware of where the incumbents live, and we don't 20 redistrict people out of their district unless it absolutely 21 has to be done in order to comply with the Voting Rights Act. 22 Because the courts have recognized a constituent/incumbent 23 relationship and the will of the people in electing their 24 public officials. It requires you to follow identifiable 25 boundaries when you move those lines. They have to be 5-9-11 40 1 streets or rivers or something that's going to be there, not 2 a fence line or something like that. So, they're very basic 3 elements that you have to take into consideration, and then 4 our report will tell you how your plan complies with each one 5 of the criteria that you've adopted. The redistricting 6 guidelines are really for third parties. If someone wants to 7 give you comments on the plan that you adopt, or if they want 8 to submit an alternative plan, this tells them what they have 9 to do in order to give you something that will be something 10 that you can take into consideration. And it's very basic 11 things, like a plan has to be in writing, or comments have to 12 be in writing. They have to be legible. You have to use 13 2010 data; you can't use old data. You have to redistrict 14 the entire county. It doesn't do us any good if you give a 15 plan that redistricts only Precinct 2, because we have to 16 know how it affects the entire county to be able to determine 17 whether our legal obligations have been met. So, it's just 18 those basic things, telling people if you desire to submit 19 comments, we'd welcome them; we encourage you to do it, or an 20 alternative plan, but you have to follow these guidelines in 21 order to have it considered. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me ask another question. 23 I think you mentioned it in the beginning. Being as this 24 situation has existed for so long, and you said something 25 that maybe they could be allowed to vote in the closest 5-9-11 41 1 polling place, but it wouldn't be within their precinct. So, 2 how does that work? 3 MS. FRYER: No, no, no, I didn't mean that. I did 4 not know you were talking about commissioner precincts. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about 6 commissioner precincts. 7 MS. FRYER: I thought you were talking about 8 election precincts. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 10 MS. FRYER: Or just changing polling places, which 11 can be done without changing the boundaries of your 12 commissioner precincts, but it still requires submission to 13 the Department of Justice. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're probably talking about 15 a change of population, maybe about 20, 25 people. 16 MS. FRYER: I don't think it's a balancing problem. 17 It's just that if you redistrict, you have to jump through 18 all the hoops, is the problem. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. It's really 20 kind of a toss-up in my mind, because this has been a problem 21 forever. 22 MS. FRYER: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I get a lot of comments 24 and aggravated people that live out there that have to drive 25 40 or 50 miles to vote. They won't do it, and it's not fair 5-9-11 42 1 to them to drive by -- what, three? -- at least three polling 2 places -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- to get there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we can't -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's no access from 7 that -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we can't allow those 9 people to vote in another voting place? 10 MS. FRYER: In the precinct that they live in. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That they live in? 12 MS. FRYER: Mm-hmm. We're back to his problem. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- we have our Precincts 1, 15 2, 3, and 4. We also have all the smaller -- the sub -- 16 voting -- what do you call them? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Voting precincts. 18 MS. FRYER: Election precincts, mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you change an election 20 precinct without changing the whole thing? 21 MS. FRYER: You can change an election precinct. 22 That's the process that starts at the beginning of September. 23 It is a D.O.J. submission process. It's just not a right-now 24 process. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way to change the 5-9-11 43 1 voting precincts? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was -- that's 3 one -- that would be a simple way, if we could adjust a line 4 to allow -- 5 MS. BOLIN: I can tell you what the problem is. 6 MS. FRYER: Diane says she can articulate the 7 problem. 8 MS. BOLIN: The problem with the last two 9 redistrictings -- this will be my third -- is the census 10 block is what's messing with the precincts that they're 11 discussing. The outer borders, the people on the outside 12 edge -- the census block runs from Turtle Creek all the way 13 up into Ingram, which pulls these people up into Ingram. 14 They're having to go all the way around. And my 15 understanding the last two times is we cannot split a census 16 block. Are we going to be able to this time? 17 MS. FRYER: You're not supposed -- supposed to 18 split census blocks, but you can -- you have to have a very 19 good reason for doing it. And D.O.J. will -- will approve a 20 plan with a split census block, but you have to really 21 convince them that it was necessary to do. 22 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Should be very simple with 24 this one, because there is no access. And the census block 25 includes Ingram, but there's no access, period. And it's -- 5-9-11 44 1 you're talking a very, very small number of people. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that if -- if -- 3 even though you're -- you're not doing things within a census 4 block, if the whole purpose of going beyond that rule is to 5 make voting easier, -- 6 MS. FRYER: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- then it's something the D.O.J. 8 would be tickled to death to see. 9 MS. FRYER: That's something that is persuasive to 10 the D.O.J., and also the fewer people affected by it is 11 something that's persuasive. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a very small number, and 13 it would make voting accessible that they're not accessible 14 to now. 15 MS. FRYER: Right. So, that -- that is up to you. 16 It is a discretionary decision of yours. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Diane, when we were doing the 18 prelims on the census and working with the commerce people -- 19 MS. BOLIN: I had no input in that at all. I was 20 not aware of any -- nobody talked to me about where they 21 needed census blocks or anything. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That would have been the 23 obvious place to -- to do that. 24 MS. BOLIN: I was hoping that we could put some 25 input in so that we wouldn't have this issue, but there was 5-9-11 45 1 nothing that came to us. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I guess that we -- can 4 we come -- after we go into executive session, can we -- on 5 this item, and come out of there, can we discuss it a little 6 bit more? 7 MS. FRYER: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, the way to do 10 this is send somebody from D.O.J. down here and let them 11 communicate with his constituents. That would be -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll carry the rope, and I've 13 got a tree picked out for them. (Laughter.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What I would propose, Ms. Fryer -- I 15 don't want to unduly encroach upon your time, but what I'd 16 like to do is get through some more agenda items, and before 17 we adjourn for our 10:30 mid-morning recess, go into 18 executive session just prior to that. 19 MS. FRYER: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That way we can give everybody else 21 an opportunity. That'll be probably about 20, 25 minutes. 22 MS. FRYER: I was hoping to be able to be on the 23 road by 10:30, because I do have another session back in 24 Austin at 1 o'clock. But if it's not possible for the Court 25 to do that, I can make some calls and try to see if I can get 5-9-11 46 1 that adjusted. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can still be out of here by 3 10:30. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we go into break about 6 10:20. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, appreciate it. We'll get to 8 that momentarily. 9 MS. FRYER: All right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? At this time, I will recess 11 the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will convene a public 12 hearing concerning the road name of Ed's Way West located in 13 Precinct 4. 14 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:59 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 15 court, as follows:) 16 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 18 that wishes to be heard with respect to the road name of Ed's 19 Way West located in Precinct 4? Seeing no one coming 20 forward, I will close the public hearing concerning the road 21 name of Ed's Way West located in Precinct 4. 22 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:59 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 23 reopened.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 5-9-11 47 1 Court meeting. We'll go to Item 8; consider, discuss, take 2 appropriate action for final approval of the proposed road 3 name of Ed's Way West located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. Mr. and 5 Mrs. Doyle have requested through the 911 office and Road and 6 Bridge the proposed road name of Ed's Way West, Precinct 4. 7 This is the perpendicular stretch of road between Cummings 8 Lane and Highway 27, which was once named Cummings Lane by 9 mistake by 911. There recently were some issues about 10 Cummings Lane and whether they were County-maintained and 11 where the maintenance started and ended, which is not an 12 issue at this point, but may be an issue later on. This 13 particular stretch of road is approximately 470 linear feet, 14 and was never named. Mr. and Mrs. Doyle have applied, like I 15 said, through 911, and at this time, we ask the Court for 16 their final approval concerning the road name Ed's Way West, 17 Precinct 4. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-9-11 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 9; to 2 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on elimination of 3 reimbursement to employees for dues or use fees paid by 4 employees to fitness facilities after we have approved the 5 policy in use for the fitness facility out in the Sheriff's 6 Office annex. I think it's appropriate, and we, as part and 7 parcel of going forward with that, had decided to cease any 8 further reimbursement, up to a limit, any employees that may 9 have been availing themselves of that. I put this on the 10 agenda since we did adopt those policies out there. That's 11 the reason it's here, gentlemen. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move the agenda item, to 13 eliminate reimbursement for employees for dues -- for dues or 14 use fees paid by employees to fitness facilities. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 16 second? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second, -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- before your question. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to vote -- I'm 22 going to vote no, because I have an annual contract based -- 23 and that decision was based on this reimbursement program. 24 And, personally, I don't use that, but I think there are a 25 lot of -- a lot of employees that may -- may, that they have 5-9-11 49 1 an annual contract or are under a contract now that's only a 2 couple of months old, or a month and a half old, and they 3 made that decision to go into a contract with some other 4 workout place around town based on the reimbursement program. 5 I don't know that that is fair that we say that we're going 6 to do it, and then a month and a half later, say no. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I tend to agree with 9 you. Another thing is, I'm not sure that we have access 10 worked out -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for the Sheriff's facility 13 out there for, you know, everybody to use, so everybody can 14 have access to it when they want it, or when they can 15 schedule use of it when it's not being used. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going tell you, it's a 17 fabulous place. That's the finest workout center in 18 Kerrville, Texas. But try to get 300 people in there working 19 out at the same time. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's going to be a 21 scheduling problem. Until we get the scheduling thing worked 22 out, I'm not sure that we ought to jerk the funds for that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we know how many employees 24 are -- we're paying fees on? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any idea. 5-9-11 50 1 MS. WHITT: Jackie can probably tell you that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hyde is -- I think is 3 the one that controls that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, how long -- how long have 5 we had this in the works now? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been well over -- or over 7 a year, since early last year's budgeting process. And it's 8 always been that -- as far as access, what I told the Court 9 last time, and you, is that access is available 24 hours a 10 day, seven days a week. Okay? The only thing that I ask 11 right now -- and what we're doing, even internally, is I will 12 -- I would ask that the department head of the department the 13 employees work for just send me a list of those employees 14 that have filled out the liability release forms. And at 15 that point, we'll keep that list inside dispatch. They walk 16 up there; they can check out the -- the access card if they 17 don't have a fob already issued to them. Some employees have 18 it, but if they don't have, they walk up, sign for it; they 19 have immediate access 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We 20 have not had any kind of crowding problems in there. There 21 could be at first, I guess. What is in there is two -- two 22 state-of-the-art treadmills, two ellipticals, two bicycles, 23 two -- or a stair climber, eight TRX straps, a full 24 eight-position multipurpose unit, and a bench press and 25 dumbbell, hand weights. Okay? None of these are free 5-9-11 51 1 weights where somebody could get hurt. I didn't want those 2 in there. They're all plate-loaded machines or otherwise. 3 But I -- I really don't see, you know, any problem with 4 access at this point, period. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- Judge, I withdraw my 6 motion for -- for a week. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I get the sense that we're not quite 8 ready to go forward with that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not quite. I still think we 10 need more -- you know, we authorized this at the beginning of 11 the year, and I kind of agree with Buster on that. So -- I 12 know that's hard to understand, but I do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I would ask, 15 Judge, and I don't know if Rob can say, is I have internally, 16 all right, already put out to my employees -- 'cause they 17 have access currently right now. Everything's been done, 18 that they do not get reimbursed for any other fees, okay? 19 Paid to these other -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Exercise facilities. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- other exercise facilities. 22 They've known that. When we started this, all my employees 23 knew that was going to happen then. We enacted it. We've 24 gone ahead with it, and I've ended those fees. Now, I don't 25 know if you want me to go back on that and start paying them 5-9-11 52 1 fees again, but I think they -- they don't need fees. But 2 that was an internal decision on our part. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your department's a little bit 4 different than the other employees, in my mind. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, Rusty. You have 6 caused me to come to the real reason that I'm opposed to 7 this. You have to go out there and look at him in shorts. 8 Now we're into psychiatrist bills. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster, believe me, we've been 10 in the same facility. Looking at you in shorts is probably a 11 little worse than looking at me in shorts. (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That did it. That did it. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Oh. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a better solution. Let's 15 go on to Item 10; receive a quarterly investment report from 16 Patterson and Associates for quarter ending March 31, 2011. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. I'm back again. Every 18 three months. And, basically, I just need you guys to accept 19 the report, acknowledge receipt of it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-9-11 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 11; consider, 4 discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint Hugh Jons and 5 Ron Vick to the 911 Board of Directors. Commissioner 6 Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what it says, and I 8 move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 12; to 17 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit 18 report for the office of the Kerr County Treasurer. 19 Ms. Mabry, the report is in the materials provided to members 20 of the Court. Do you have anything to add to that? 21 MS. MABRY: Nothing at the moment, other than we 22 are kind of in the process of attempting to comply with any 23 recommendations that our external auditors have made, and one 24 of them was to kind of clean up our journal entry process, 25 and also clean up our wires, and so that's all reflected in 5-9-11 54 1 the report, if you have any questions. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of do a trial run before you 3 set it in concrete, right? 4 MS. MABRY: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a good plan. That 6 way you don't have to reverse entries or -- 7 MS. MABRY: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- redo them or that kind of 9 business. Everybody's on the same page. 10 MS. MABRY: Well, it's sort of an attempt to just 11 shore things up, make sure everything's -- you know, all our 12 T's are crossed, all our I's are dotted. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You wish for us to accept that 15 report? 16 MS. MABRY: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion for acceptance? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 21 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-9-11 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 2 Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve the audit of basic financial statements and 4 supplementary information for the year ended September 30, 5 2010, from Neffendorf, Knopp, Doss and Company. That's our 6 audit, and the only reason it's here is that the agenda item 7 wasn't styled to approve the audit that we got the report on 8 last meeting. Is that correct, Ms. Hargis? 9 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 19 Item 14; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 20 declare two Ford pickups as surplus, to be used as trade-in 21 on another vehicle. Sheriff? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. The three-quarter ton 23 pickup that Bobby Johnson has been driving, the 2005, has got 24 some mechanical issues that make it -- it's got 134,000 25 miles. The mechanical issues are going to cost us more than 5-9-11 56 1 the pickup is really worth, so I'm looking at trading in that 2 truck, trading in the old '99 green Ford pickup that 3 Sheriff -- former Sheriff Kaiser used to drive, if you'll 4 remember that old one; we still have it. None of the gauges 5 work on it any more, but we do still have it. And we have a 6 seized BMW that we're also going to trade in, so I want to 7 trade those three vehicles in on a half-ton, 6-cylinder Ford 8 pickup. And what will happen is the larger four-wheel drive 9 one-ton that I drive will go to B.J. and the outside trustee 10 crew, and I'll drive the half-ton, 6-cylinder Ford pickup. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the excess funds that are needed 12 to complete that trade are coming from? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Coming out of my seized funds, 14 so it's not costing the County. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. I figured that 24 would kick it over the top, Sheriff. Let's go to Item 15; 25 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on contract with 5-9-11 57 1 Health and Human Services Commission office of the Inspector 2 General with local prosecuting authorities. This is on the 3 agenda because in the handling of -- of welfare fraud type 4 cases, there's a contract that the local prosecutor's office, 5 District Attorney, get paid a certain amount for each one of 6 those cases, some guidelines for reporting some additional 7 payment, all that good stuff. That standard state contract 8 that we've had in place now, I think, with both prosecutors 9 for some time. Maybe just one; I'm not sure. But I know 10 we've had -- we've had one in place previously, and the 11 District Attorney's office, 216th, asked us to present this 12 to the Court since they request that it be signed by the 13 County Judge. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the County Judge want 15 to sign it? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He's willing to sign it if the Court 17 gives him permission to. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, now we're down to 19 permission. Is there -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's better than forgiveness in 21 this case, Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I see the 23 D.A.'s already signed it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- is there any money 5-9-11 58 1 that changes hands here? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the District Attorney's 3 office receives -- I think it's $280 per case that they 4 handle dealing with the type of offense that they're 5 interested in here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And fraud -- you say it's 7 some kind of fraud? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, if there's some sort of 9 fraud asserted. And the prosecution is on the basis of fraud 10 for -- I'd just call it generically welfare fraud, AFDC or 11 WIC or some of those sort of things. I'm not sure. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a lot of that? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a number of -- of 14 convictions and -- and sentences. And, of course, the -- the 15 probationers in the cases are ordered to repay these amounts 16 to the state, and, of course, that's what they're interested 17 in more than anything else. But they pay up front to the 18 prosecutor's office for the handling of those cases. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, cool. I move for 20 approval. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-9-11 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 4 Item 17; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 5 appoint a member of Commissioners Court to designate a person 6 to perform investigation under Section 751.005 of the Texas 7 Health and Safety Code for the purpose of determining if the 8 minimum standards for insuring public safety and order as 9 prescribed by law will be maintained under the application 10 for a permit for mass gathering. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You said a mouthful there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a mass gathering permit 13 that's required to be filed under Chapter 751 of the Health 14 and Safety Code. It deals with the Kerrville Folk Festival. 15 Sheriff's already done his investigation, submitted his 16 report. I'm going to hold a hearing next Monday on the 17 application. Since we do not have a county fire marshal, the 18 statute requires that the Court appoint someone to make this 19 investigation that the fire marshal would otherwise make, 20 make a report to the Court. I indicated to Commissioner 21 Baldwin that this property is within his precinct, and I 22 thought it was appropriate for him to be appointed under this 23 agenda item to do that investigation and make the report. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, he promised me a 25 badge, about like a hub cap kind of thing. 5-9-11 60 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I agreed to do it under 3 those conditions. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And he gets to wear his -- his fire 5 chief head gear. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fire chief hat in there. 7 Y'all don't know about that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is he going to be present 9 during all the events? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any potential 12 liability under this thing? I mean, have we done this 13 before? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the first mass gathering 15 permit that we have had a request made. They probably should 16 have done it for the last 39 years, but -- if the law's been 17 in effect that long. I don't think it has. But it's a 18 procedure to go through to let -- let folks be assured that 19 there's proper sanitation, there's proper security, there's 20 proper medical services available, those sorts of things that 21 you need to have when you got a great big crowd. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They contract with fire and 25 EMS? 5-9-11 61 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Prior years, it was -- it's 3 been required if it's a crowd at any one time of over 2,500 4 people. Prior years, T.A.B.C. -- and I'd even looked at a 5 former county judge; they weren't quite to that. They expect 6 that, with this being their 40th anniversary, they're going 7 to -- to hit that 2,500 people out there at one time. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Wow. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the fire marshal's part is 10 to make sure they have fire extinguishers or things -- you 11 know, burn rings or whatever this county's going to allow 12 them to have with that permit, that all those safety 13 precautions are taken care of. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- I mean, we need 15 to make sure that, I mean, we're just not -- if there's 16 something that we need to do to make sure they're doing it, 17 we need to make sure they're doing it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a rather voluminous 19 application that they have filed. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff had an opportunity to 22 take a look at it. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've read it. It's very 24 detailed. They go into everything that has happened. It's 25 about, what, 20 pages, Judge? That they filed with all their 5-9-11 62 1 answers. I don't see -- and Rob may have looked at it; I 2 don't know. I don't see that they're doing anything 3 different than they have done for the previous 40 years that 4 they've been out there. I think they've just reached a point 5 where now they have to, if I understand all the paperwork. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm saying if there's 7 any requirement that they do something, we need to make sure 8 that -- that if there are any state requirements for 9 gatherings, we need to -- if we're going to issue the permit, 10 we need to make sure they're doing it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There are some requirements, and 12 that's the reason for the inspection, like the Sheriff has 13 already made. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The inspection, like on mine, 16 was just to make sure that they have security in place, okay? 17 And that, like, at night, that where they even state in their 18 deal, and we've seen it in the past, that they have lighted 19 areas where people may be walking across Highway 16, or that 20 they -- they've got several hundred of their own volunteer 21 security people, and then they -- they do hire off-duty 22 officers to work out there on a Friday and Saturday night. 23 That's all you can -- you know, that they're doing that. 24 They have radio communication. They have a way of -- they do 25 train their -- their people. That was my responsibility as 5-9-11 63 1 far as the report goes. It's not going to get into -- more 2 in-depth than that. I didn't see any way we could. Now, 3 liability-wise, as far as -- the permit's required if they go 4 over that 2,500, so I think they're doing that. And -- and 5 any of us that have to file reports are liable for it, like 6 for a lot of things every day. 7 MR. HENNEKE: I've reviewed -- gentlemen, I've 8 reviewed the statute, and I -- the due process requirements 9 that get satisfied by the hearing I think are the procedural 10 safeguards for this, that you have the Sheriff as designated, 11 and then the county fire marshal or the designee named by the 12 Commissioners Court to go investigate and do a report and 13 present that report to the County Judge. It then has a 14 hearing -- a public hearing where any issues and concerns can 15 be -- can be addressed and evaluated. So that's where the 16 mechanism of the statute comes in, to, you know, make sure 17 that if there are any problems, that those problems are 18 published to Judge Tinley, and then those problems are able 19 to be addressed publicly and any issues resolved before the 20 mass gathering event. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing on the Judge's 22 hearing is set for the 16th, and by that code, it says that 23 that report -- Buster's lucky to be appointed -- must be 24 filed with the County Judge five days before the hearing. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be the 11th? 5-9-11 64 1 That would be the 11th? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be the 11th. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You might want to see what they got 4 for lunch out there in the next day or two. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What day is Asleep at the 6 Wheel out there? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's in that deal. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I don't know. 9 Someone made the comment about fire rings. Are they going to 10 be allowed to have campfires? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They have in the past, and I 12 suspect -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But with the burn ban, we're 14 not -- that's not allowed during our burn ban. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's what they're going 16 to have to look at, have to be made aware of, 'cause part of 17 their big deal is their campfires in their camping areas, and 18 that will need to be addressed with them. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good point. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He thinks -- Commissioner 21 Oehler thinks that campfires are legal. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have contained campfires 23 in the burn ban for recreational control. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Long as they're controlled 25 and supervised? 5-9-11 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Waiting on a motion. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to have to make a 3 motion to get you to do it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got to designate someone 6 if we don't have a county fire marshal. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we approve Buster to 8 go do the -- whatever the law requires on a mass gathering 9 permit. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 12 designate Commissioner Baldwin as the individual under Item 13 17 to make the investigation and report. Further question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go out of 20 public or open session now at 10:20 for the purpose of going 21 into a short executive session. After that, we'll come back, 22 open up -- ma'am I haven't forgotten about you. We'll get to 23 you, if you wish to be heard, right after we come back out of 24 the -- 25 AUDIENCE: I think I'll just talk to Buster real 5-9-11 66 1 quick, and Mr. Oehler. 2 (The open session was closed at 10:20 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 3 is contained in a separate document.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time we'll come back to 6 order in open session. It is 10:31. Let's go to Item 4, 7 discussion of traditional redistricting criteria and possible 8 adoption of criteria to be utilized by the County for the 9 2011 redistricting process, should it become necessary. 10 MS. FRYER: Do you have copies of those 11 resolutions? I brought extra copies. They're at Tab F. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They're included within Attachment 13 F. Actually, it's the second item under F. 14 MS. FRYER: Here's some freestanding copies, Judge 15 Tinley. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, got it. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we -- for my part of 18 it, I think we need to explore the redistricting thing to 19 correct a longtime problem. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, as I -- as I inquired of Ms. 21 Fryer earlier, if we adopt these criteria, and under the next 22 agenda item, the -- 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Guidelines. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the guidelines, even if we don't 25 subsequently use them, there's no problem. But if we don't 5-9-11 67 1 adopt them, we're prohibited from proceeding forward. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I understand. I 3 don't want us to be prohibited in case we decide to move 4 forward. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you making a motion to adopt the 6 criteria for use in the redistricting 2011 process as set 7 forth under Tab F of the materials submitted by counsel? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I so move. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 11 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 17 Item 5; discussion and possible action to adopt redistricting 18 guidelines which set standards for public participation for 19 the 2011 redistricting. That, of course, is the first item 20 under Tab F of the materials submitted by Ms. Fryer, that 21 also we would have to adopt if we're going to make any 22 changes -- if we desire to make any in the future. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to adopt 5-9-11 68 1 the guidelines for persons submitting specific redistricting 2 proposals and providing comments as set forth in -- under Tab 3 F of the materials submitted by Ms. Fryer. Question or 4 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 5 signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, now 10 we'll take our recess, about 15 minutes or so. 11 (Recess taken from 10:33 a.m. to 10:52 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 14 we might, from our recess. We'll go to Item 16; to consider, 15 discuss, take appropriate action to increase R.V. hookup fees 16 at the Hill Country Exhibit Center as follows: $25 per 17 night, $75 for unlimited hookups, and $150 for carnival or 18 circus groups. Mr. Bollier? 19 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Well, it seems like we've 20 got a problem here. The last couple of times the circus has 21 been in town, and the -- and the carnival have been in town, 22 it seems like that my water bills out there at the Ag Barn 23 goes sky-high. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Those elephants require a lot of 25 water when you wash them. 5-9-11 69 1 MR. BOLLIER: I don't think they use $500 worth. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. BOLLIER: That -- you know. But, anyway, my 4 electric bill has gone really high those couple of times, and 5 I expect it to go high when we have the stock show out there. 6 And Jody and I come up with this. But I'm just not almost 7 sure that we shouldn't change this to -- to a certain amount 8 per hookup. You know, unlimited -- $75 for unlimited, that 9 means that if -- I'll just use the dog people. They come out 10 there for their little show. Well, they get all of those 11 hookups for $75. Well, I think that we need to do something 12 different than that. I think we need to charge them per 13 hookup. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is $25 appropriate? 15 MR. BOLLIER: I would think so. 16 MS. GRINSTEAD: I think so. 17 MR. BOLLIER: And I think we need to do the same 18 thing with the carnival people, $25 a hookup. I mean, 19 straight across the board. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Per night? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Per night, yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I tell you, this 23 has gotten -- it's gotten out of hand. They take advantage 24 of it, because it's the cheapest place they can camp out. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 5-9-11 70 1 MR. BOLLIER: They're not going to beat that $25 a 2 night anywhere, either. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, $25 a night, and get rid of 4 the unlimited hookups? You have $75, $150. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Get rid of all that, period, and put 6 $25 per hookup, per night. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the same for the carnival 8 folk? 9 MR. BOLLIER: The same for the carnival folk. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All across the board? 11 MR. BOLLIER: All across the board. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way we're not 13 discriminating. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I move that we revise 15 our R.V. hookup fees at the Hill Country Exhibit Center as 16 follows; be a flat $25 per night, per hookup. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you very much. 5-9-11 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 18; to consider, discuss, take 2 appropriate action to appoint Rhonda Hickey as a member of 3 the Kerr County Child Services Board. Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Was there -- I 5 didn't look. Is her backup in here? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Here you go. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fine, just as long 8 as it's in there. It is. Quality, quality, quality person. 9 As we continue on with this board and people leaving and 10 people coming on, every time we add a new one, it seems like 11 they just get better and better and better. So, I move we 12 appoint Rhonda Hickey to the Kerr County Child Service Board. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 15 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 16 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 19 is to 21 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on implementation 22 of the burn ban. It's -- 90 days has come and gone again. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5-9-11 72 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 20; to 7 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve a 8 proclamation from the Community Council of South Central 9 Texas declaring May 2011 Community Action Month. Ms. Belinda 10 Lacey was initially going to present this item. She sent an 11 e-mail indicating that she didn't think she was going to be 12 able to be here today, asked that I continue it on the agenda 13 and present it to the Court. A copy of the proclamation is 14 included within your materials, and I'll await your pleasure, 15 gentlemen. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll make a motion to approve 17 the Community Action Proclamation for May 2011 for the 18 Community Action Month. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 21 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-9-11 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 2 Item 21; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 3 approve signage being placed in Flat Rock Lake Park depicting 4 a 5 mile-per-hour speed limit. Where'd Mr. Bollier go? 5 MR. BOLLIER: I'm right here. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's yours, okay. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Mine and Commissioner Overby's. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Gentlemen, just basically, 9 this is before you here right now -- we do have a need for 10 some speed limit signage in Flat Rock Lake Park. There's 11 been some issues out there with safety, concern as far as the 12 amount of cars and the traffic and the speed that's been 13 going on in the park recently. Again, the 5 mile-an-hour 14 speed limit, that seems -- seems low, but if you're going 15 into the V.A. Hospital, it's a 10 mile-an-hour speed limit. 16 A lot of parks and camps, you also have -- it's common to see 17 a 5 mile-an-hour speed limit. I just put this on here for 18 your comments. And to have two signs, I believe we talked 19 about, Tim; is that correct? 20 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Inside the Flat Rock Park to 22 reduce the speed out there. 23 MR. BOLLIER: One at the front of the park and one 24 right about the middle -- before you go into that middle part 25 and across. 5-9-11 74 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Anyway -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a county road. I don't 3 know if we have the authority to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is a county road, though? 5 That's my question. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's a county park. I 7 guess it's a county park road, maybe. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the question is, are we 9 required to have a public hearing because it's a regulatory 10 matter, as opposed to merely an advisory? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It also -- I guess the other 12 thing comes on the enforcement side. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How is it enforced? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Again, I think it's mainly a 16 safety issue, and just trying to bring it to people's 17 attention. We're concerned about them coming in there. You 18 got small kids running and back and forth in the area, and 19 that's the main issue, just to see what our -- what's our -- 20 what's our options to try to help reduce the speed? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the only other 22 option -- I've tried a couple of things, and maybe put up a 23 sign, you know, "Children at Play." 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Slow? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: "Drive slow." You know, 5-9-11 75 1 something like that. Just to kind of catch their eye. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know -- you know, a 4 regulatory thing, you know, if you're going to regulate it, 5 it's got to be enforced, and I'm not sure that we have that 6 authority. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Authority to do that? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That seems to -- I've gotten 9 with Road and Bridge on several other occasions to do those 10 kinds of signs, and it seems to have helped in areas where 11 we're putting them up. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Children at play, caution or 13 slow or something? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Slow. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They wouldn't put up one that 16 I wanted to put up one time in front of Shaky Henderson's 17 house. But, anyway -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think that's the main 19 thing, is just to bring it before the Court to have some 20 signage up there to -- to bring to attention the speed, and 21 we do have small children at play in those parks. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have had a fair amount of 23 luck by using the word "please" on those signs. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you'd be surprised the 5-9-11 76 1 difference in attitude people will have when they're asked to 2 do something nicely instead of being beat over the head with 3 it. But that's my recommendation for trying to raise 4 awareness -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in the park, of "Children 7 at play, please drive slow." 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or else. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or else Buster's going to 12 come down and beat you up with a club. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With my new fire badge. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: New hubcap. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're going to work with Road 17 and Bridge on some sort of an advisory sign? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that one, 20 gentlemen? Let's move on to Item 22; consider, discuss, take 21 appropriate action on proposed interlocal agreements with the 22 City of Kerrville for various services and/or operations. I 23 continue to put this item on the agenda as we continue to 24 make an effort to bring to resolution our various interlocal 25 agreements with the City of Kerrville with regard to a number 5-9-11 77 1 of particular functions. The -- the ones that seem to be in 2 play, as it were, right now are the library and animal 3 control. Let me -- let me first -- I want to get the airport 4 out of the way, 'cause there are some items on the airport, 5 and I want to communicate to the Court what I have advised, 6 and then -- Commissioner Letz was present in the meeting. On 7 the outline of proposed services that -- that City of 8 Kerrville submitted to us in accordance with their request 9 for various sums for payment, they're delineated for library, 10 airport, fire and emergency medical services, and animal 11 control, the most recent one being April 13, 2011, as amended 12 May 6th, 2011. 13 As it pertains to the airport, Commissioner Letz 14 and I have communicated to the representatives of the City, 15 under Item C dealing with the Airport Board, essentially that 16 we would not agree to any contract with the City that would 17 bind the Airport Board or the Airport Board's function 18 without the board's prior approval. The board needs to be 19 involved in anything involving their internal operation, is 20 the sense that I have, and that's why they're there. And 21 that's why we've got them there. With respect to -- an issue 22 was raised that maybe there were some things occurring in the 23 internal operations that maybe have some legality questions. 24 Certainly, if there is -- after all the smoke clears on -- on 25 working the legal issues, if there are changes to be made for 5-9-11 78 1 things to be done legally, I'm sure the board will make those 2 changes. That's why they have counsel available to them. 3 But with regard to any contractual matters dealing with -- 4 that the Airport Board needs to be a party to, I am not going 5 to support any agreement between the City and the County 6 relative to the airport funding that would get involved in 7 that contractual process. With respect to the library and 8 animal control -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before -- before we 10 leave the airport, I mean, there's -- I don't have a huge 11 problem with it, but it seems there's a -- under Airport 12 Board -- and this is from the City, the handout that you 13 provided to us. Under airport -- under C, Airport Board, 14 Item 3, gifts -- you know, and I'm thinking as to why the 15 City requests things, and I can only think of one thing. And 16 I mention it because I believe the Mayor mentioned it to 17 me -- and I could be wrong on that, but someone on the City 18 staff did, and it came to -- I believe it was the Airport 19 Board considered giving a free location, which is basically 20 abating the rent to the Civil Air Patrol, and the City was 21 upset that they were considering doing that, giving free rent 22 without their approval. And, you know, I look at that -- and 23 I'm, like, I thought the purpose of the Airport Board was to 24 run the airport. And my recollection is -- I'm not sure -- 25 I mean, it was not a huge amount of money; I think it was, 5-9-11 79 1 like -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: $200 a month. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- $200 a month. I mean, it 4 was a small amount. I think, you know, I don't mind having 5 "C", that different language there, but I think it needs to 6 be like a capital improvement. There needs to be a limit. I 7 mean, I don't want them having to come to us -- it defeats 8 the whole purpose of the Airport Board if they have to come 9 to us if somebody wants to give them, you know, a free sign, 10 or a free, you know, anything. I mean, it's kind of 11 ridiculous that they're -- the benefit to the community by 12 having the Civil Air Patrol based in Kerrville far outweighs 13 the -- 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- $200 a month rent that they 16 would be giving up. So, I mean, I think -- you know, I don't 17 want to just go along and say that I agree with everything in 18 here. I think, you know, I'm glad -- open to looking at a 19 lot of these things with the City. I agree with you that we 20 don't want to, you know, certainly tie the hands of the 21 Airport Board, and the Airport Board's authority is whatever 22 state law says it is, period. They can contract and do what 23 they want. We have -- our control is on the budget side. 24 And I think if the City wants to -- you know, to propose that 25 they split the budget 50/50, if that's -- you know, that's 5-9-11 80 1 fine, if they want to. But trying to put all these other 2 little conditions in there doesn't work. That's tying the 3 hands of the Airport Board, and that's not the reason we set 4 that board up. 5 I want to go -- a quick aside while we're on the 6 airport. I debated whether I should bring this up or not, 7 but, you know, when we started our original meetings, I don't 8 know, three weeks ago with the Judge and I and Mayor Wampler 9 and Councilman Motheral and City Manager Parton, we kind of 10 agreed to try to keep these meetings somewhat private; 11 probably felt that more could be accomplished that way. But 12 the Mayor evidently thought that there was no reason to 13 follow that agreement when he brought -- made a big deal 14 about a comment the Judge made about poker, and which was 15 taken out of context from what he said. And, certainly, he 16 showed no sign of being upset by that language after it. But 17 there was some language that the Mayor said about the airport 18 that alarmed me greatly at the time, and has, and I've talked 19 with the Judge about it, but nobody else really. And the 20 Mayor made the comment that if we can't come to an agreement 21 on all these, we might not just fund the airport. "We" 22 being, you know, the City. 23 And I said -- well, I asked him about that comment. 24 I said, "Mayor, are you saying that you want the County to 25 make up 100 percent funding of the airport again?" And he 5-9-11 81 1 says, "No, I mean that we're going to split it 50/50, but 2 we're not going to pay our half." And I made the comment to 3 him, I said, "Mayor, I think you need to talk to the City 4 Attorney about that, because I think there's some F.A.A. and 5 TexDOT Aviation requirements about failing -- or refusing to 6 fund the airport, operations at the airport." And that was 7 the end of that conversation. But it kind of goes to the -- 8 the heart of it, that they're -- you know, they're talking 9 about us saying things and doing things, and that was -- I 10 took that as an actual threat, that if we don't come to 11 terms, they're not going to do this. Well, I thought it was 12 totally inappropriate to even bring it up. I don't like 13 being threatened to start with, but I think something like 14 that was just uncalled for to say, and I'm bringing it up 15 today just for that very reason, that I think the -- you 16 know, the Court needs to be aware of what we're facing in 17 some of our meetings with the City. 18 It's been a very difficult negotiation. I thought 19 we presented a very good plan to them. We have agreed, and 20 based on my feelings and my constituents' feelings that I've 21 heard from, and I think the Court, we have totally funded 22 fire and EMS at the levels they've requested. And then, when 23 we did that, all of a sudden the goalpost changed. Well, no, 24 that's not good enough. Now we want -- you have to fully 25 fund the library at this level. And that's a facility that 5-9-11 82 1 we have no say in the operations and no say in the hours, no 2 say of anything to do with the library. And then they -- you 3 know, it's just been frustrating. And, you know, to me, I'm 4 having to make really tough decisions in a very tight budget 5 year. My decision is -- and I've said it publicly -- is that 6 fire and EMS, emergency services are my number-one priority. 7 They get funded first. And the arrangement of the service 8 provided by City of Kerrville has been outstanding; we'd like 9 to try to continue there. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just real quick, Jon, a 11 question. What if we don't agree to the -- the level of 12 funding for library that they requested? What happens? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have said so far that that 14 -- they won't agree to fire -- to provide emergency services 15 outside the city limits if we don't fund the library. 16 That's -- I mean, that's how I have to take their response. 17 Because they refused -- animal control really is a nonissue. 18 We could pay 100 percent of animal control. That's not -- 19 you know, it's not on the table, talking about it. They want 20 -- and they really brought it up at their request, and 21 they're the ones that brought up in a meeting about maybe 22 they want to do their own department. We just -- our -- when 23 we brought up at the meeting about animal control, it kind of 24 comes up that the City wants to talk about the funding 25 agreement three years ago, and in balancing the dollars then, 5-9-11 83 1 you do have to look at animal control, because it was part of 2 that agreement, the total dollar funding. But, you know, I 3 still stand by the thing. I think it makes sense for us to 4 be in charge of doing animal control county-wide. But -- and 5 I think, you know, animal control probably is more important 6 than library. 7 We have to make some tough choices. And I think 8 the -- Councilman Gross said -- at least he was quoted in the 9 paper as saying -- he said that he hopes residents start 10 calling us and telling us what they want. Well, I haven't 11 had any residents call wanting me to fund the Library Board. 12 They want me to fund emergency services. We're doing it, and 13 I hope the city residents that are also county taxpayers 14 fully understand what the City is doing. By refusing to 15 accept our offer to pay what they requested on emergency 16 services, they're saying that we're not going to have a deal 17 on emergency services. They have told us that if we don't 18 have a deal on emergency services, they're going to close a 19 fire station and lay off emergency service personnel. That 20 will have an impact on the city residents and county 21 residents; make that really clear. And if that's their goal, 22 residents of the city of Kerrville need to start calling City 23 Council and saying, "We want a fully staffed fire and EMS." 24 And they're currently going the other direction right now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the other result of that, 5-9-11 84 1 Commissioner, would be if we've got to go outside, there's 2 likely going to be, because of the increase in fire and 3 emergency services cost, a tax increase to all county 4 taxpayers. But if we have to go outside and build that thing 5 from the ground up -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't know where we are. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That, and that's likely to cost 8 substantially more, and that cost is going to be spread to 9 all taxpayers in the county, which, of course, include those 10 within the city. The -- the domino effect, then, if they 11 shut down a fire station -- if I recall correctly, they 12 touted that the addition of the fourth fire station, which 13 I've had serious question about for -- well, since the 14 inception, they touted it as a benefit to insurance rates. 15 If they shut it down, I would think those insurance rates 16 would go the opposite direction. So, you know, what benefit 17 they're trying to bring to their city residents, I'm not 18 sure, but be that as it may, I've had some additional 19 discussions, additional information furnished to me. Had a 20 meeting late last Thursday afternoon with the Mayor. The 21 City Manager brought me over some information, which, of 22 course, I provided copies to all the members of -- of the 23 Court, and it was a new type proposal on the airport -- not 24 the airport, the library and the -- the -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Animal control. 5-9-11 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- animal control. Essentially, 2 what it was, was the library they wanted us to fund at -- at 3 a gross cost of $335,000, which included the 200,000 that has 4 so graciously been made available to us by the Cailloux 5 folks, subject, of course, to their board approval. With 6 respect to that, they provided some backup information, as 7 I'm sure all of you saw, based upon the usage data that they 8 had compiled, and the outside the city of Kerrville patrons, 9 but located within Kerr County, is 42.90 -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Four. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- .94 percent. I ran those numbers 12 based upon their formula, and came up with -- and I believe 13 it's accurate. I invite each member of the Court to do their 14 own calculation, if they choose. Instead of $335,800 15 proposed by the City, the actual amount, using their own 16 formula, is $313,462. I pointed that out to the City 17 Manager. He said, well, he thought he did the correct 18 calculation, but he may not have, and the formula was what he 19 utilized. The -- the documents also submitted an offer for 20 animal control of $100,000 for the City portion. Over the 21 weekend, I did some more calculations based upon usage costs 22 of the animal control facility. We provided the City with 23 documentation as to the -- just the cost to operate the 24 shelter. And, of course, then the balance of the budget 25 would be for patrol and enforcement. 5-9-11 86 1 The initial figure we submitted was 238,000, I 2 believe. Tess Mabry in the Auditor's office was kind enough 3 to put all that together so that I could furnish it to the 4 City Manager last weekend. And their belief was that was a 5 little high; that some of those were spillover costs also. 6 So, I -- I just cut it in half. I said half of it, based 7 upon $400,000 total operation cost, which is above what we 8 budgeted for this year, which is just under 370,000. 9 However, I did include indirect costs which are applicable to 10 that department, which include worker's comp, liability 11 insurance, casualty insurance for the facility, depreciation, 12 admin, and other management and indirect costs, and I -- I 13 pegged that estimate at $400,000. I think that when you 14 include those other costs that we're being asked to pay and 15 have calculations based upon for fire and EMS, what they 16 started this past year on, that caused the 75 percent 17 increase, for example, in the EMS contract, I think we're 18 certainly within that. 19 And I've run those figures out, and based upon the 20 percentages -- historical percentages for enforcement on 21 number of calls as to that portion of -- of the costs, and 22 then the different percentage for animals surrendered to the 23 facility that are maintained and kept there, and I prepared a 24 worksheet, and I -- I come up with just under $140,000. 25 Which, when you put it in context of the entire 400,000, I 5-9-11 87 1 think that's a fairly conservative figure. Very 2 conservative. Certainly, we would be entitled to take the 3 position that -- that maintaining a facility, a kennel 4 facility, and being under a contractual obligation to the 5 City of Kerrville to provide on-call the housing of animals 6 that are picked up within the city of Kerrville, if they were 7 to operate their own facility -- their own enforcement, that 8 it's analogous to maintaining an army, kind of like an 9 insurance policy, in that we may never put an animal in that 10 facility from outside the corporate limits of the city of 11 Kerrville, but we're required to staff it and maintain it 12 under that contract for the benefit of city animals. And 13 notwithstanding the fact that our calculations are 238,000, 14 maybe -- maybe a more moderate or conservative figure would 15 be 200,000. That would be actually double what they're 16 offering at this point. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it seems that they have 18 been -- they don't want to cooperate and go on the basic fact 19 of historic use for fire, and they're wanting to go against 20 historic use percentage-wise on animal control. Is that -- 21 does that make sense? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, their fire protection 24 that they're asking for a huge increase on, and the historic 25 use of that service, if you don't include following 5-9-11 88 1 ambulances, is not much. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, to try 3 to move forward on this -- I'll make one other comment first 4 about our meetings, going back to the comment that was in the 5 paper. During our meetings, there was never a discussion 6 about term. We never discussed that. I mean, the fact that 7 they rejected our one-year term, which obviously was -- I 8 mean, was kind of a one-year term -- it was kind of a 9 three-year term 'cause of the library, and the Cailloux 10 funding was a three-year portion. They were very upset that 11 we didn't go with a five-year term. Well, they didn't 12 request it during our meetings. But that being said, kind of 13 working off the Judge's worksheet, I'd like to recommend that 14 we fund fire at the requested amount of the City, 500,000; 15 fund EMS at their requested amount, 400,000; fund the library 16 at 200,000, which those funds would come from the Cailloux 17 Foundation, contingent upon their board's approval. We'll 18 split the airport, which their number's about 165,000. And 19 we can continue to pay 100 percent of animal control, but 20 they will amend their -- they will basically cancel their 21 city ordinance related to animal control; it'll be run as it 22 is elsewhere in the county. That way the only, you know, 23 real change for folks is on the library, and we're funding 24 that basically at the same level we did last year. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 5-9-11 89 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And make that an offer to the 2 City. And, you know, hopefully we'll get past this and, you 3 know, they'll accept this offer. If not, I see this going 4 the other direction quickly. You know, because if we do have 5 to go out -- you know, start from scratch on fire and EMS, we 6 may have to look at a lot of other departments, a lot of 7 other things that we do jointly, because we're going to have 8 to really start looking for money, 'cause we're not going to 9 be able to do a tax increase, even if we -- you know, with 10 the rollback situation. So, I think that, you know, 11 hopefully they will listen. This is a -- you know, kind of, 12 in my mind, our final offer. I mean, we're giving them 13 virtually everything that they wanted, and agreeing to fund 14 the library as we agreed three years ago. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause we took the library at 16 a reduced -- reducing rate, because we funded the airport 100 17 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And should be -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And animal control. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And animal control. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we -- and they should -- 23 you know, I think the public needs to be aware that they are 24 not -- that during the three-year period when the City fully 25 funded the library, they have reduced funding substantially 5-9-11 90 1 at the library, by about a hundred and some-odd thousand. 2 So, I mean, you know, we haven't reduced funding at the 3 airport. We funded the airport at the level it needed to be 4 at. But, anyway, I think that, you know -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you making that in the form of a 6 motion, Commissioner? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you go over it one 10 more time, please? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Fully fund -- and I'm 12 kind of looking at this sheet from the -- the Judge, the 13 handwritten notes he made. Fund fire, 500,000. Fund EMS at 14 400,000. Fund the library at 200,000, with that money to 15 come from the Cailloux Foundation, subject to their board's 16 approval. Split the airport, which is about -- going to be 17 about 165,000, but whatever that cost is, it will be split 18 equally. And we fully fund animal control, and that is 19 contingent upon the City revoking their ordinance completely, 20 in which case it would be -- you know, any cases filed or 21 anything like that would all be done in J.P. court. Nothing 22 would go through municipal court under animal control. And 23 that's a total funded amount, if -- my math is based on the 24 Judge's notes here -- about 1,433,000 for all those, I think. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll just say these comments, 5-9-11 91 1 Commissioner Letz. Now, first of all, again, I'm going to 2 say in our subcommittee, again, I appreciate the -- I know 3 it's been frustrating for you and Judge Tinley to kind of go 4 in and be patient with what's going on, but I appreciate your 5 -- you guys staying in there and trying to have dialogue with 6 them in these interests. Again, I just want to reiterate 7 again as far as the fire and EMS is concerned, you know, 8 we've all said here that that's the number-one priority, and 9 make sure that this is funded, and what's going on and what 10 we're doing here. The numbers of Commissioner Letz' 11 comments, again, I think, just moving, again, with the 12 library, what we've funded -- again, what we've done last 13 year is 200,000. With what the City -- City was wanting to 14 go up to, with us fully, again, funding 100 percent of the 15 animal control, the numbers are basically the -- they're the 16 same, I mean, as far as what you're looking at. So, I -- I 17 agree with kind of where you're at. It's not much difference 18 as far as what I see of being there for supporting those 19 interlocal agreements. And I would also support a 20 three-year -- Commissioner Letz, are you also saying this is 21 a three-year request as well? With C.P.I.? Are you saying 22 this is a one-year or three? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind going with a 24 three-year, as long as the fire and EMS agreements have a 25 clause in it that we're going to pursue looking at an ESD. 5-9-11 92 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that needs to 3 be as a part -- part of a long-term -- and that does not mean 4 that there's any change in city -- I think the ESD would 5 likely consider a contract with the City if we come out to a 6 level of support. That's a little bit contingent upon the 7 animal control. I don't have a problem with a three-year 8 deal, 'cause that is the length of time that the Cailloux 9 Foundation said they'd be willing to fund the library, and 10 during that period, I think we -- you know, I'd certainly 11 want to continue to work with the City on long-term funding 12 at the library. I mean, we're not saying that we're not 13 going to ever fund it again. We were fortunate to have the 14 Cailloux Foundation -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very much so. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- help us this year. And in 17 three years, we'll see where we are. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the three-year 19 aspect, I had some discussions with both the Mayor and the 20 City Manager, and the issue resolves around planning for the 21 purpose of facilities and staffing, and I can understand 22 that. And they want some reasonable notice provision. At 23 one time, a year was mentioned. That may be a little long, 24 but I can understand that whoever's providing the service -- 25 for example, us on the animal control side, we'd want that 5-9-11 93 1 same type of notice if there was going to be a bailout on 2 that. Essentially, what's good for the goose is good for the 3 gander, and that's appropriate, some sort of notice. But 4 it's a C.P.I. escalator. I don't have any particular problem 5 with that on all these agreements as they are spelled out. 6 So, it -- I think it's doable. We need to be able to insure 7 the continuity. But if there are going to be changes, as we 8 talked about ESD and/or the library district, for example, 9 there need to be -- there needs to be bailouts on those if 10 that process, in fact, goes forward. But that's going to 11 take a period of time, anyway. But they indicated, both of 12 them, that -- that it was doable with some sort of notice 13 provision. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I would just add, again, on 15 Commissioner Letz' comments about the ESD, again, I think 16 we've all kind of heard, from just this Court itself, that an 17 ESD, again, for EMS is the long-term solution. That we need 18 to really, strongly work together, and I think we need to 19 work on that long-term solution. I want to say this about 20 the library, and I've said this before from here in this -- 21 in this seat. Again, the long-term solution as we look at 22 the library, we really need to see a library district 23 created. Just the same thing we talked with about with an 24 ESD, that needs to be looked at a library district. The 25 library has changed dramatically over the last 50 years, and 5-9-11 94 1 the way that it's -- how it's handled today. It's no longer 2 a book institution, but its an information and resource 3 institution. And, of course, funding the library has changed 4 dramatically, and it needs to be looked at how it's changed 5 differently, accordingly, too. So, I would encourage the 6 City to look at, potentially down the road, a library 7 district to be formed to fund the district, and to -- helping 8 with the library resources that needs to operate it in the 9 future. And as far as hours of being operated, we had talked 10 about earlier them reducing the hours from 54 to 40 hours. 11 That's another thing that needs to be strongly considered, as 12 far as those hours, because it has changed, and how 13 information is done. And so I think getting it back to a 14 reasonable time frame and a reasonable budget, and how it can 15 be funded with the library district is our long-term 16 solution. I just wanted to say those comments. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did anybody make a motion, or 18 are we still just talking about it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't think so. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're still -- I guess, are 21 we going to have a second before we're going to get a second? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we do have a motion. Do I 23 hear a second? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not going to get one out of 25 me. 5-9-11 95 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: With the motion, though, with 2 a three-year agreement? Is that what you said? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now you'll second it? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second now. 8 Any further question or discussion on the motion? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. Now, I think there's 10 one -- there's something that we've overlooked in this whole 11 process, and it was pointed out very emphatically to me last 12 week when I met with most of our volunteer fire chiefs. They 13 are a little ticked off that we would even consider giving 14 the City more money when they're sitting there getting 15 $15,000 a year, is all we give them. And they get nothing 16 else from the County other than -- than workman's comp, if 17 I'm not mistaken. So, they are -- they are very upset about 18 it, and, you know, they figure that if you need to give 19 somebody money, it's them, and not the City of Kerrville, for 20 doing a service when they're not really providing much of a 21 service. The volunteers do 90 percent or better of the work, 22 and yet they get pushed aside like they're nothing, and they 23 don't appreciate it. 24 And, you know, any way you slice or dice this, I 25 mean, I -- you know, just another -- another theory. You 5-9-11 96 1 know, the City figured out they needed to go up on these 2 things, so they would -- no matter if they -- when they agree 3 to pay for some things, they still come up with a net amount 4 of money. They're not really paying anything. We're giving 5 them the money to pay with. But the volunteers are -- you 6 know, they're feeling pretty left out. And the recent fire 7 in Junction, they went, and everyone -- every department that 8 I'm aware of went up there to assist. City of Kerrville 9 didn't send a soul. Not a soul. And even the volunteer -- 10 the assistant fire chief -- he does a little emergency 11 management for us -- was chastising some of them for sending 12 equipment. Well, they didn't send too much equipment; they 13 sent enough that they still wouldn't -- we wouldn't be 14 unprotected. 15 So, I don't know. I guess, looking at this 16 stuff -- and it seems like every time we turn around, the 17 City asks for more money from us, and our services are not 18 worth as much as theirs are, according to them. And I 19 just -- I just have to say that. And it's -- I think at some 20 point in time, it's going to be a contract for EMS services. 21 You know, we don't ever pay more than -- for anything; nobody 22 in this room will pay anything -- if they feel like they're 23 getting taken advantage of or paying too much, they're going 24 to look for another source of -- of service or product. We 25 don't know that their -- their offer is -- is acceptable or 5-9-11 97 1 not, or whether it's in the realm of reality. We haven't 2 explored anything else for sure. We don't know what these 3 other services charge for the basic service to Kerrville that 4 Kerrville provides; same equipment, same manpower. 5 You know, I just think at some point, we need -- 6 you know, we have this argument at least every three years, 7 sometimes every year. We've had the EMS argument now twice 8 in one year, and at some point it's got to stop. And the 9 only way for it to stop is to make ourselves more independent 10 of one another, unless we can agree to fund fairly, based on 11 historic use and not on population. This being -- you know, 12 hiring an army to -- as an insurance policy, in my mind, is 13 bull. You don't pay for stuff you can't afford. You find 14 another service and live within your means. And it's 15 probably not going to happen the way I'm saying, but I'm 16 really getting to the point to where I feel like we're being 17 held hostage. We've been extorted. We've been blackmailed 18 into the deal, and I don't appreciate it. I don't think it's 19 fair to the public, and that's kind of where I am. And I 20 will not vote to go with this deal. And that doesn't matter, 21 'cause it'll probably pass anyway. 22 And what I've said is probably not going to be real 23 popular with some of my constituents, because they think I'm 24 going to try to do something to hurt their EMS and their 25 so-called ISO ratings that are totally unjustified. And 5-9-11 98 1 there's not an insurance agent in town that I've talked to, 2 or have had somebody call, that has said that fire station 3 had one dime worth of effect on their insurance rates. Not 4 one dime. If anything, they've gone up. So, you know, some 5 of the scare tactics and the fear that's been put into the 6 general population of the county is wrong. And there are 7 ways to do this, and it's just a matter that you got to have 8 some faith to move forward in a different direction than what 9 we've been going. If this continues -- and, you know, who -- 10 are we going to argue about C.P.I. next year? They've got 11 one C.P.I. figure, we got another? Where are we going to 12 settle on? You know, I know that it's important to get this 13 behind us, but dadgumit, it's just -- you know, it just seems 14 like it's always one-sided. We don't get credit for what we 15 do. 16 They didn't think animal control was worth anything 17 last time y'all negotiated. It was just, "Well, y'all got to 18 do it." No, we don't. They need to know what it costs to 19 build a facility and staff it and man it and operate it. 20 They'd be looking at a half million dollars to even get 21 started. And they're getting a deal. You know, we're -- 22 we're -- I think we're being cordial enough to offer them a 23 deal. I still don't think that they ought to get it for 24 free. I think it ought to be -- they ought to pay their 25 proportionate share. They want to us pair our proportionate 5-9-11 99 1 share. Why shouldn't they? If nothing else. We just -- you 2 know, we roll over and play dead. And we fight about it and 3 argue about it; then we wind up giving in to them. And I 4 really don't appreciate the way they've handled it since this 5 thing began. It was all or nothing, or it was fire and EMS 6 and nothing. You know, it's all -- it's always on their 7 terms. This time, at least, this is a little bit of a 8 compromise. It shows it to be a little, maybe, on our terms, 9 but they ain't accepted it yet. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say, they 11 haven't accepted it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We sent over a deal to them; 13 we were going to do all of the animal control and all of the 14 airport. They didn't even sign it. We were going to pay 100 15 percent of it. And what does that mean? It's not worth 16 anything for us to fund it? I don't get it. It's not good 17 faith. It's not a good faith effort. And coming up and 18 using the right numbers for the right amount of service, and 19 that we pay our proportionate share, which I think we're 20 entitled and mandated to do for the protection of the public. 21 But, you know, every time that it -- that we starve the heck 22 out of our -- our volunteer fire departments; we starve our 23 employees so theirs can continue going and -- and do like 24 they're doing. They're not going to decrease any salaries. 25 They may -- they may cut some people. That's not our fault. 5-9-11 100 1 We didn't build the fire station. We didn't have anything to 2 do with their staff and their facilities, not one thing. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I don't disagree 4 with anything you've said, and I think the -- especially your 5 comments about the volunteer fire departments. And when you 6 were talking, I was thinking -- considering amending my 7 motion to reduce the fire contract to 400,000, and commit 8 100,000 to volunteer fire departments, an additional -- you 9 know, and divide it up proportionately, as we have been. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will give them another 11 $1,000 a piece. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little more. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Little more. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be about 15,000 -- or 10,000, 15 15,000 a piece, which is -- you know. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be an improvement. 17 'Cause I'm telling you, they are -- they don't think very 18 highly of what we're doing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know they don't think very 20 highly of our volunteer fire departments, and that's 21 basically the conversation and comments they've made 22 publicly. And I would -- you know, I think the volunteer 23 fire departments are outstanding. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They are. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, from talking to the 5-9-11 101 1 ones that I've talked to, the chiefs I've talked to, the 2 training they go through is basically identical to what 3 Kerrville Fire Department goes through. Many of their 4 staff -- many of them do -- a lot of them, in fact, work for 5 other fire departments, paid fire departments. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: With that 100,000 going out 7 to our volunteers, that'd give them another 25 -- 10,000. 8 That would be -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be, you know, a 66 10 percent increase over what they're getting now, but doesn't 11 hardly meet their insurance requirements. And some of them 12 -- you know, I know that I heard from Elm Pass. You know, 13 they are a very small department. I've never been down 14 there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's small. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm going to be there 17 tonight. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 8:30 tonight. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- they're struggling to keep 21 tires and keep vehicles running on what we give them. And, 22 you know, they all provide -- some are more -- or better 23 equipped than others. Some of them have done a lot with 24 getting -- getting grants, and the community support and 25 fundraisers and things. But, you know, it comes a time when 5-9-11 102 1 we need to consider taking care of the people that take care 2 of us, and they take care of the largest portion of our fire 3 protection in this county. And the City takes care of a 4 minimal amount, in my opinion, based on their numbers. Not 5 on speculation, on their numbers. So, I'll shut up now. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin, you 7 haven't said a whole lot in the last -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I will. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate it. Make me feel 10 better. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with everything 12 Bruce has said. He's hit the nail on the head on every 13 issue. I don't know how -- because if we reduce this fire 14 offer, they're going to throw the whole thing in the trash 15 can, and we're starting -- basically starting all over. But 16 I've learned -- this has been a great education to me, this 17 -- this way of thinking, this army and this insurance thing. 18 I was laying there this morning in my bed, where I usually 19 lay in the morning, and got to thinking about that. If you 20 could take that type of thinking that the City has, as far as 21 the -- the insurance and army building thing, if you could 22 take that into the community -- to give you an example, let's 23 say that your wife goes down to the grocery store and says, 24 "Mr. Butt, I'd like a gallon of milk," and they say, 25 "Ms. Oehler, here's your gallon of milk, and that will be $4. 5-9-11 103 1 However, it's really going to cost you $1,592 because it's 2 your turn to pay for the tires on the milk truck." See, 3 that's that new way of thinking over there. And, god, that 4 -- I never heard that before. It just went right around me. 5 And I'd always thought that you pay the $4 for the gallon of 6 milk and go home, go on and feed your family. Boy, this new 7 thinking -- so, everybody would benefit if we went to the 8 City's new way of thinking, you know, if we wanted to play 9 that game. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What if somebody went to -- I 11 don't, mean to interrupt you, but before you leave your milk 12 thing, what if Ms. Oehler went there and wanted Borden's -- I 13 don't know if they have Borden's; let's assume they don't 14 have Borden's -- wanted Borden's milk. Should -- as the army 15 philosophy, shouldn't Mr. Butt say, "Well, we're going to 16 start carrying Borden's"? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Anything you want." 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Borden's truck has more 20 tires than the H.E.B. truck does. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of milk. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you follow that way of 23 thinking, the thinking that they've had, if you go back in 24 your mind to the letter from the former fire chief, and you 25 could -- you could think in terms of, if they don't 5-9-11 104 1 participate in this animal shelter issue, then we can say to 2 the city residents, "Folks, we already had three cases of 3 rabies in Kerr County. There's a good chance that these 4 rabies are going to come into city of Kerrville. Don't leave 5 any little kids laying around, and take care of these old 6 people that can't run any more. We'll take care of them for 7 you, but don't let the City do it." See, that's this new 8 kind of thinking they have over there, and I can't get my 9 mind wrapped around that one. But that's -- that's part of 10 their sales point. We don't -- if we don't grab ahold and 11 contract with -- and give them everything that went on on the 12 ambulance and fire service, then our citizens are going to 13 suffer. And I guess I need to provide that letter from -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But, Commissioner, if we accede to 15 their demands, their citizens suffer. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got to extract blood from 18 their citizens to make that happen. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. I 20 understand. I see it clearly. And, see, all -- all that 21 kind of newfangled -- I mean, we didn't think that way out at 22 Hunt growing up, and they didn't think that way down in 23 Comfort either. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will tell you that I -- I'm 25 going to interrupt just for a second, if you don't mind. 5-9-11 105 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I went to a conference a week 3 or so ago in Lubbock, and I talked to quite a few different 4 commissioners up there. Evidently, all the city managers in 5 west Texas went to the same conference, and they decided that 6 they were going to get more money out of the counties this 7 year because they were having a shortfall in budget. They -- 8 every stinking one of them has the same problem we're having 9 with City of Kerrville. They just tried to figure, "You're 10 not paying your proportionate share. You need to pay this 11 way." I think they all drank out of the same bottle. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But my final thought is -- 13 or my final -- one of my final thoughts is, you talking about 14 the volunteer fire departments, we're giving all this money 15 to the City when our volunteers -- I couldn't agree with you 16 more. That is -- that's a dumb thing. We've always been 17 dumb in that -- in that arena. But we're doing the same 18 thing, giving money to the library that we don't own one 19 brick of over there, and probably going to shortchange law 20 enforcement this year, which is our protection, the 21 protection of the citizens. Dumb thinking, in my opinion. 22 But back to this -- I'm going to vote for this thing. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Auditor, where are we on 24 sales tax? What's sales tax trend doing? 25 MS. HARGIS: We're -- we're up a little bit by 5-9-11 106 1 about 5 percent, not much. Maybe about 25,000. I haven't 2 checked this month yet; hasn't come in yet. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, Ms. Tax Assessor, where 4 are we on property values? Have you heard anything from the 5 Appraisal District? 6 MS. BOLIN: I got them on Friday, but I haven't had 7 a chance to look at them yet. I think they're down just a 8 little bit, from conversations that I've had. And it's just 9 captured value. It's nothing -- it's not even our 10 preliminaries. I know they've gone out to several higher-end 11 subdivisions and lowered values. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- one of the 13 difficulties I've had, and the Judge has had working with the 14 City on this is they have never come back to us with a 15 counter. They always go back to their original -- original 16 offer and say that's it. And we -- you know, I've -- I think 17 this is the third proposal that I've put together, and they 18 still haven't ever countered with something different, other 19 than, "You pay what we wanted in the beginning." I think I'm 20 going to amend my motion and reduce the fire funding to 21 400,000, with 100,000 going -- being committed to volunteer 22 fire departments, with incremental increases over the next 23 three years of 50,000 a year on the fire to get it up to -- 24 the third year, it would be at 500,000. This year it would 25 be 400,000, next year 450, and in three years, 500,000. 5-9-11 107 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Question. Again, trying 2 to -- Commissioner Oehler, your comments about volunteer fire 3 departments, 100 percent support, exactly. And, again, 4 trying to move this forward to get an agreement, your 5 comments are -- I agree. Question. Would the -- 6 Commissioner Oehler, if we increase the volunteer fire 7 departments' budgets by 50 percent, from 15,000 to 22,5, 8 giving another $7,500 to nine volunteer fire departments 9 would be an additional 67,500. And then still going ahead 10 and funding -- just a comment -- funding to the City of 11 Kerrville for 432,5 on behalf of fire department. And the 12 other 67,5 would be dispersed within the volunteer fire 13 departments equally. Any questions on that, or comment? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can support that. That's -- 15 I mean, that's fine. I mean, we're just trying to close some 16 type of gap there. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are your numbers correct? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, nine -- nine volunteer 19 fire departments. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Two of them are half-funded, or 21 partially funded. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only seven fully funded ones. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. So, nine -- 7,500 24 times nine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would be times eight, 5-9-11 108 1 because you're -- you're half-funding two of them, which 2 would be a total of eight. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But increase them 50 percent 4 to each one all the way across. What do you -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's going to be different. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Should be 67,5. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No. I'll figure it for you. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we increase them 50 9 percent, we're going to increase fire protection for 10 Kerrville for a hundred and -- how much percent over? How 11 much percent? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Be 54,5. You got two of them 13 increasing by 1,000, and seven of them increasing by 7,500. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I can go along with 15 that if it took that to get a vote, but I would rather do 16 what I originally said. And I think the -- and the -- the 17 reason I like what Commissioner Oehler brought up about the 18 volunteer fire departments is, they are the backup to the 19 city. In their army philosophy that we keep on using today, 20 they back up the city. They help the city. They have -- 21 historically, volunteers have come into the city limits and 22 helped fight fire. Or on the state -- I mean, I don't know 23 if volunteers were in the city limits or not. The City says 24 they were not. I don't know that there was a line out there 25 on those properties burning that day to -- 5-9-11 109 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good thing they didn't hinder 2 the volunteers from doing their job. They know more about 3 brush fires and grass fires than anybody. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, either way. I can 5 live with either one. I don't have a real strong preference. 6 But I think it's the -- I do like the fact of saying to the 7 City that we're going to -- the only way we're going to have 8 additional funding for the volunteers is to come out of this 9 pot of money. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we're going up -- we're 13 darn sure not going to have anywhere else in our budget. The 14 volunteers do it, and they do back up the city. I think 15 incremental increases gets us where they want. They have -- 16 at one of our meetings, they said that they -- that was 17 something that they thought was -- it was -- Guy, your 18 proposal originally had some incremental numbers in it. They 19 liked that. So, you know -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Your current motion, without a 21 second, is that it's 400 with incremental increases following 22 two years, 50,000 each year, which, of course, will, as to 23 that contract, eliminate the C.P.I., but the others with 24 C.P.I. as you've indicated? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 5-9-11 110 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the one you want to stick 2 with? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You got a second on that. Now, if 5 somebody wants to amend it, come on. Otherwise, we're going 6 to vote on what's there. Any further -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go -- go through it 8 one more time, please. Four hundred -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 400 on fire, 400 hundred on EMS, 10 200 on library, contingent upon Cailloux -- with Cailloux 11 funding, and contingent upon their board approval. Airport, 12 split; current number's 165. Animal control, that entire 13 amount would be assumed by -- the entire function would be 14 assumed by the County, with the requirement that the City 15 modify its ordinances to do away with all municipal 16 ordinances dealing with animals, so that it's all enforceable 17 under county and state law. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And part of that motion, 19 though, is that the -- there are incremental increases on the 20 fire. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Over the next year, it would be 23 $50,000 increase, and the following year 50,000, so in three 24 years it would be 500. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To the City? 5-9-11 111 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To the City. And it's 2 contingent upon -- or conditioned that the County will fund 3 the volunteer fire departments to the extent of an additional 4 $100,000 this year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if you ought to 6 do that. I think just keep that in the back of your mind. 7 Let's do it in the budget. I don't know that we need to deal 8 with volunteer fire departments today. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only reason I'd like to put 10 it in this motion, Commissioner, is that we're funding fire. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're using that same money; 13 we're just shifting it around, and that is backup to the 14 City. And I'd like to, you know, make that commitment to do 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we were just 17 dealing with the city issues here. I didn't know we were 18 going to deal with the volunteer fire departments. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It is what it is, Commissioner. Let 20 me make a comment. It occurs to me that the additional 21 amount they requested on the library falls short of what an 22 appropriate contribution would be from the City on animal 23 control by some amount, some significant amount. Now, I 24 understand that maybe we don't like trade-offs, but I think 25 when you're -- when it's a matter that you don't have any 5-9-11 112 1 control over, it's not good business to fund something that 2 you don't really have any input or control over. And from 3 the same standpoint, on -- with the shoe on the other foot, 4 with us being in charge of animal control, the City's put in 5 that same position if they're funding a portion of that and 6 we're in control of that, so that's not good business from 7 their standpoint. So, when you wash those two out, I'm not 8 sure there's a great deal of difference between the numbers 9 that I've got here on the worksheet and what you've actually 10 proposed. I think yours is way undercling. Way undercling, 11 because of the mechanics of how we operate. Anyone got any 12 more questions? Comments? Okay. All those in favor of the 13 motion as proposed by Commissioner Letz, indicate by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (Commissioners Baldwin, Overby, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 17 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 18 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We will 20 submit that down the street. Okay, let's get on to item -- 21 Item 23. Mr. Garcia has indicated he wants to pull it and 22 pass it, bring it back to us at the next meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what is that? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's dealing with the guidelines 25 for the colonia grant, on-site sewage facilities systems 5-9-11 113 1 program. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got different numbers 3 than you do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How in the world did you get that? 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I had the same thing; mine 6 were different too. Depends which -- when you copied off -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was changed. The agenda 8 was changed at the last minute. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 24; 10 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 11 temporary construction easements for the Arrowhead Road 12 improvement, low-water bridge construction project. 13 Commissioner Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good news, Judge. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We got somebody on the line? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think Rob has some good 17 news for us. I think we got the easement signed by 18 Dr. McCubbin this morning, and it is in his hot hand, I 19 think. 20 MR. HENNEKE: We do. The County Attorney's office 21 brought it up. Dr. McCubbin executed it this morning, the 22 temporary construction easement, which in substance is the 23 same as the one that Dr. Killian agreed to. The Judge has 24 already signed the temporary construction easement agreement 25 with Dr. Killian. I'll tender the one for Dr. McCubbin. 5-9-11 114 1 And, Commissioner Oehler, I think -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We already got the documents 3 from the Junkins. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Delivered here several weeks 6 ago. So, this takes care of all the affected parties that 7 have signed a -- agreed to go forward with giving us a 8 temporary construction easement. 9 MR. HENNEKE: We should forward copies, I'd 10 suggest, over to Mike Coward. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Then I suppose the action for the 13 Court today would be to authorize me to execute those on 14 behalf of the County? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that you sign, and on 16 behalf of the County, these temporary construction easements 17 for Arrowhead Bridge project. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 20 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 25. 5-9-11 115 1 Is it necessary for us to take that item up under the 2 circumstances? 3 MR. HENNEKE: No, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, Item 25 is a pass. Numbers 26 6 and 27, are those to be totally within executive session, 7 Mr. Henneke? 8 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Section 4 of 10 the agenda, payment of the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 15 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 16 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 21 amendments. I believe we have a few budget amendments as 22 indicated on the summary furnished by the Auditor's office, 23 Budget Amendments Number 1 through 7. Is that complete, 24 Ms. Hargis? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 5-9-11 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or discussion from 2 any member of the Court with regard to those budget 3 amendments? Hearing none, do I hear a motion that the budget 4 amendments -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as indicated on the -- 1 through 7 7 as indicated on the summary sheet be approved? We had a 8 motion by Commissioner Baldwin. Do I hear a second? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 11 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 17 any late bills? Okay, I've been presented with monthly 18 reports from Constable, Precinct 1; County Clerk; 19 Environmental Health; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; 20 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; and Kerr County Payroll for 21 April 2011. Do I hear a motion that the indicated reports be 22 approved as presented? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved -- second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 5-9-11 117 1 the indicated reports as presented. Question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Reports 8 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or other 9 assignments? Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just hope we can wrap up this 11 stuff with the City. About to wear me out. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ray Garcia and I went to San 15 Antonio last week to T.C.E.Q. to get a preliminary kind of a 16 conference thing on a wastewater treatment system that could 17 treat septic tank -- or septic pumper water and waste outside 18 the city limits of Kerrville. And had a good meeting, kind 19 of got pointed in the direction of where we're going to go 20 next. We're going to meet with the designer or planner-type 21 guy to get some estimate of cost based on what we need, which 22 would be based on the number of gallons a day that we'd want 23 to treat. And so this -- no money involved, just a little 24 time, you know, for us to go down and do these things. And I 25 think it's -- it's going to be something we need to look into 5-9-11 118 1 for the future. And I think we're ahead of -- in other 2 words, nobody else, no other counties have even considered 3 doing this, and it's not been talked about by anybody else, 4 and so the T.C.E.Q. was very, very pleased to hear that we 5 were moving forward with, you know, at least considering 6 doing something like this. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Question, Commissioner. Did they 8 indicate that being at the point of the spear, as it were, 9 that there might be some grant or other funding available -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- through some of their programs? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are. They have -- one 13 of the programs is a small business owned program through 14 T.C.E.Q. Very low -- low interest, and we'll know more where 15 we are. I think we're going to go -- probably not this week, 16 but next week, to meet with a guy that was recommended to us. 17 And it doesn't cost anything; it just costs some time, just 18 to get an idea of what we're -- what we're looking at. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, these latest census 20 figures clearly show that -- that the population growth is 21 occurring more outside the corporate limits of the city than 22 inside, and so it's going to get worse before it gets better. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, the other 24 side of this story is, if we can get -- if we can maybe start 25 this and prove to developers that it's not as big a deal as 5-9-11 119 1 what they might think it is to operate a treatment system, 2 rather than having individual septic systems, I think 3 it'll -- it'll help us in the future with that, too. Because 4 it's -- you know, we're talking about a very limited number 5 of gallons a day compared to what the city is doing. You 6 know, right now they're limiting us to 10,000 gallons, is all 7 that the pumpers can dump. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if we plan for 25,000 or 10 30,000 gallons for the future, and we're able to recycle 11 and -- and utilize that water for irrigation and things, you 12 know, it's a green project, and so it's a win-win for 13 everybody, because we'll be using less potable water by using 14 treated water for -- we can -- Road and Bridge can even use 15 that to do whatever they can't pump out of the river. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little League fields. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Little League fields. And it 18 can be -- there's some locations we've been looking at -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Soccer fields. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for this thing. And that 21 will come later on. We really had a good visit with them, 22 and he really -- he was excited. We talked over two hours. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About sewer? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that nasty stuff. But, 25 you know, turn it into something good and, you know, solve a 5-9-11 120 1 problem. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Everything that I 6 do is running well. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's running downhill, right? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of going downhill, but 11 it's running well. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Commissioner Overby? 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Just a couple things, very 14 quickly. I did mention I'm going to be at Elm Pass Volunteer 15 Fire Department tonight and visiting with those folks, and, 16 again, we'll carry the information. Again, there's no doubt 17 about it; those folks do a fantastic job, and they do an 18 outstanding service. Just a couple of other things real 19 quick. Center Point Park -- Lions Park, again, kudos to our 20 Road and Bridge Department going out there and making things 21 happen out there. I have had tons of folks call, and just 22 very appreciative of what's going on. Again, thanks to 23 Commissioners Court for spending some funds out there, making 24 that park level. I've had a ton of folks just calling to say 25 they're very appreciative, and so it's good to see that and 5-9-11 121 1 see some of the folks enjoying the park out there, what's 2 going on. Another comment, just -- just quickly, an update 3 on Phase 5 of the Kerrville South water -- wastewater 4 project. We will be having meetings again -- Commissioner 5 Baldwin, we'll be having meetings next week with Tetra Tech 6 and Grantworks and the City again as we look at the capacity 7 issues in that last part of that south -- of that Kerrville 8 South project that we have here in our community, just to 9 make sure all the numbers are talking to each other and 10 capacity issues will be handled. But we should have on the 11 docket coming up on the 23rd a resolution in support, we 12 hope, in order to go forward and award with that application. 13 I just wanted to update you that that project is still moving 14 forward. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I've heard a lot of real 18 favorable reports on just what's been done on the park so 19 far. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very much so. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of folks are really, really 22 pleased about what they see going on. Reports from elected 23 officials? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: Judge, one thing. I didn't pass 25 those out. This is just the updated group insurance through 5-9-11 122 1 the end of April. I won't say any more than that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You really don't want to talk a 3 whole lot about that, do you? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: No, I don't. Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't think so. Okay. Sheriff? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your count out there? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 153 this morning. Way too 9 many. About 22 or 23 females. We're pushing it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Bolin? 11 MS. BOLIN: We're up by .39 percent on collections 12 over this time last year. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. BOLIN: So we continue to stay ahead. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Over a third of a percent. 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Great. Ms. Hargis? 18 MS. HARGIS: Just a couple of things. We've been 19 having a lot of folks that have been going back to last 20 year's budget, so I'm going to send out a memo that basically 21 says, you know, guys, we need to -- when we end one budget 22 year, then you need to get those expenses done, prior to that 23 year. We've seen it more this year than we have in the past. 24 I think it's because the budgets are a little tight. You 25 know, so we need -- 5-9-11 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: They want to go back into last 2 year's budget? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. This -- it's getting, you know, 4 a little much, so I'm going to send out a little notice. I 5 just want to give y'all a -- as you know, I was gone last 6 week to my conference. There was one thing that -- that came 7 up, and I'm sure when we talk about GASB -- nobody likes to 8 hear about it, but there's another pronouncement out there; 9 it's called GASB-54. It's not a fun one. It's not one that 10 you're going to like. I'm going to have to do some homework 11 before I bring it to you, but it's going to require some 12 policies that you pass. Basically, what it says is that we 13 no longer can just say we have fund balance, unreserved and 14 reserved. We have to have four different kinds. We have to 15 commit them. We have to uncommit them. There's -- there's 16 four different terminology -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about, in large 18 measure -- of course, the long-term debt, where we've got -- 19 it's secured either by ad valorem taxes or maybe an income 20 stream or whatever, that's going to be one reserve, isn't it? 21 MS. HARGIS: That -- that's one reserve. The 22 differences are that one reserve -- they don't even want to 23 call it "reserve" any more; it's going to be used/committed. 24 It's for debt services, where have you a contractual 25 agreement to put so much money aside. Other things would be 5-9-11 124 1 by the Local Government Code that says we shall do certain 2 things, our capital projects, where we've actually now 3 acquired those funds to issue. But it also includes our 4 unreserved funds, and you -- and we must classify those. But 5 the problem is that you have to have policies in place prior 6 to year end to be able to classify them, and -- and those 7 have to be done. So, it's not something that we -- you know, 8 I can come to you and say, "Well, if you want to do this, you 9 can, but if you don't..." It's -- these are things we have 10 to do. So, again, it's going to require a little bit of 11 homework. I'd like -- I talked to Rob about this earlier. 12 He and I are going to review it. These policies are going to 13 be, like, three paragraphs that just say, you know, something 14 with regard to these matters, and then that'll be up to you 15 guys as to what you want to do. I will give you suggestions; 16 then you will make those decisions, but we'll try to make it 17 as simple as possible. The real guts of the problem is going 18 to be that we have to write the instructions behind the 19 policies, and that may take more paperwork than the policies. 20 But, you know, let me do some homework. I just 21 wanted y'all to know it's something we're going to have to 22 push through, though, before year end. And it's going to be 23 pretty laborious on our part, 'cause we have to be very 24 careful as to how we commit these funds. The big thing is, 25 we don't want to commit some of our unreserved funds on 5-9-11 125 1 something that we don't really need, and then we've got a 2 document that says we will. So, we're going to have to be 3 very careful as to how we do this. Believe me, the big 4 auditors, I mean, from the big cities, Bexar County, Harris 5 County, all of them, nobody's really excited about this. 6 So -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I can well imagine. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can imagine. 9 MS. HARGIS: You know, he kind of scared everybody 10 half to death the first day; then we went from there. Other 11 than that, we did learn a lot, had a good conference. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We remember when GASB came 13 into -- that affected everybody. We almost jumped out the 14 window. 15 MS. HARGIS: This is 54, but they're up to 66. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MS. HARGIS: So, they just keep writing them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you, would you go 19 back to your -- the bills being turned in late with me just 20 for a second? What -- give me an example. What kind of 21 bill? 22 MS. HARGIS: This particular one that I've been 23 asked to approve is for postage, and it is from July 2010 24 through March the 31st of this year. So we got, you know, 25 half the year in last year and half in this year. I'm sure 5-9-11 126 1 the postage was paid by one official, and it needs to be 2 reimbursed by the other, but we're going to use their current 3 budget money, because, you know, they should have gotten it 4 done. But I think what we need to do is just remind 5 everybody that at the end of the year, if another department 6 owes you money, we suggest you go and get it. And then if 7 you have a bill that's going to come in -- you know, 8 September 30th you buy something, we do pay those bills in 9 October, but then that's it. So, I think it's just a 10 reminder thing. I just wanted y'all to know that I'm just 11 trying to remind folks about that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You -- you leave the budgets 13 -- you leave the books open for a couple of months, don't 14 you? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even, like, after October 1, 17 you leave them open a couple of months to catch -- kind of a 18 catch-all type thing? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, I do. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're still not getting 21 our bills turned in, even in that -- inside that two-month 22 free period? 23 MS. HARGIS: It appears to be that way. Now, 24 again, I think it's just -- it's just a reminder. I think 25 we've just forgotten that we can't really do one year over 5-9-11 127 1 another year, and so I think we might see a few amendments 2 towards the end of the year, because I think what's going to 3 happen, they're going to use their current money, half for 4 last year and half for this year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good lesson right 6 there. 7 MS. HARGIS: So, just an F.Y.I. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Any other elected 9 officials? Department heads? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody, you have any 11 complaints? 12 MS. GRINSTEAD: I'm good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Believe me, she does. I heard six 14 of them this morning, but we won't get into that. Okay, at 15 this time, we will go out of open or public session at -- at 16 12:13 for the purpose of going into executive session on the 17 items listed on the agenda. 18 (The open session was closed at 12:13 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 19 is contained in a separate document.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's 12:32, and we're now in -- back 22 in open or public session. Any member of the Court have 23 anything to offer with respect to any matters considered in 24 executive session? Hearing none, anything else to come 25 before the Court for this meeting today? 5-9-11 128 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just, I guess, a little 2 report I forgot to mention a while ago. I took -- I took the 3 documentation to Beck for the fee appraisal on the piece of 4 property in Ingram, and he's working on it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's underway. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you talked to 7 Mr. Priour? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We sent him -- all the stuff 9 was sent to him. We do have an out, though, if he... 10 There's another individual that owns a piece of property that 11 we can rent for the same money that's about twice as big. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you're kidding. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In case we get in a jam with 14 Mr. Priour. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good to know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we're heading 17 towards a jam. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, could be. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else to come before 20 the Court? We'll be adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 12:33 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 5-9-11 129 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 13th day of May, 2011. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-9-11