1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11 1:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 16, 2011 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2011-12 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, including, but not limited to, employee health care benefits, step and grade, and staffing 5 levels 3 6 Adjourned 90 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, August 16, 2011, at 1:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come to order, if we 8 might, for a Commissioners Court workshop posted and 9 scheduled for this date and time, Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 10 at 1 p.m. It's a bit past that time now. The workshop 11 agenda is to review and discuss Fiscal Year '11-'12 budgets 12 and fiscal capital expenditure and personnel matters related 13 thereto, including, but not limited to, employee health care 14 benefits, step and grade, and staffing levels. I don't have 15 any set grocery list of how we're going to go through this. 16 I do know that -- I believe Amos Barton is here. I know he's 17 got a specific personnel staffing issue that he wants to 18 address with the Court, so let's go ahead and get him out of 19 the way. 20 MR. BARTON: Thank you, Judge. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get rid of him? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eliminate Amos. That's what 24 you're saying? 25 MR. BARTON: I had an opportunity presented to me. 8-16-11 bwk 4 1 You know, we guys have been trying to make use of free summer 2 labor through the internship programs that a lot of these law 3 schools have. And, Judge, I presume that's what you're 4 talking about? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. BARTON: That issue? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. BARTON: The -- there's a young lady who's 9 clerked for us the past couple of years. I haven't submitted 10 anything in my budget. I know things are tight, and so the 11 budget that I've submitted I think is consistent with what 12 we've done the past couple of years. It doesn't have any 13 raises put in it; it doesn't have any adjustments made to it. 14 I think at the bottom line, we're 202,000 for Kerr County, or 15 thereabouts. The opportunity that came up was that 16 apparently the legal market is pretty bad; there's people 17 graduating from law schools that can't get jobs. This young 18 lady came -- recent graduate from law school, just sat for 19 the Bar exam. She has worked for us two summers for free as 20 an intern. She is going to continue working with my office 21 through November until such time as she's licensed, and she 22 asked if she could have a job. I said the money's not there; 23 I don't think the Commissioners Court would go for it. Of 24 course, I'm thinking of fair -- fair pay for an assistant 25 D.A., and that's just the reality of it. She 8-16-11 bwk 5 1 counter-proposed with -- she said, "I'll come work for you 2 guys for $30,000 a year." She says, "I don't care about the 3 money. I just want to work in the office." That kind of 4 blew me away. I saw it as possibly an opportunity. I just 5 wanted to throw it out there for y'all. That -- that could 6 be something that we could dedicate solely to moving Kerr 7 County cases, if that's something y'all were interested in 8 doing. But I was talking with Buster yesterday, and -- or 9 Commissioner Baldwin; sorry about that -- yesterday. And I 10 don't want this to be one of those deals like my wife tries 11 every once in a while; she comes home with a $50 pair of 12 shoes that are usually $100, and tells me that was a good 13 buy. The fact is, we could use the help. I think Kerr 14 County could put her to work full-time. I do think it's a 15 good value. But I didn't want to send her packing without 16 running it by you guys, 'cause it is one of those deals -- 17 you will not see another prosecutor willing to work for less 18 than what a deputy gets hired for. That's -- that's all I 19 had. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You definitely would earmark 21 her for Kerr County only? I mean, it wouldn't be a 22 district-wide thing? 23 MR. BARTON: Yeah, and we talked about that a 24 little bit. I think it's -- it might be dangerous to say 25 solely Kerr County. Maybe principally Kerr County, just in 8-16-11 bwk 6 1 case there was something; you know, that way nobody gets 2 upset about if she travels to a jury trial with us to another 3 county or something. But I would -- I think I would hesitate 4 to say exclusively, but certainly predominantly. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My point would be, you know, 6 is there a possibility of sharing the cost with the other 7 counties? 8 MR. BARTON: No, sir. I don't believe that 9 the economic environment out there in those western counties, 10 that would be -- that wouldn't even be considered. In fact, 11 I just got back from a budget meeting in Kimble County, and I 12 think you could probably categorize it as explosive. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see any bruises. I 14 don't see any blood or anything. 15 MR. BARTON: I've still got my tail end left. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Fast runner. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After our visit yesterday, I 18 saw a special on TV last night about these young lawyers 19 graduating, and they are flipping hamburgers. 20 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever they can get. 22 MR. BARTON: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, I don't know if 24 that has to do with the economy, or people just realize what 25 lawyers really are now. (Laughter.) 8-16-11 bwk 7 1 MR. BARTON: I think it's a little of both. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 MR. BARTON: But it is an opportunity that I'll 4 just pitch out there for your consideration. You know, 5 there's been some -- in the past years, there's been a couple 6 of, I think, contract attorneys that have focused on felony 7 work in Kerr County. If that's something that you're looking 8 at your numbers, and you see you got room for that, it's -- I 9 think you could get good value right there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Amos, what's your backlog on 11 Kerr County cases right now? Do you have a rough number? 12 MR. BARTON: I think -- and Linda would be the 13 better source for this, because our system in-house is 14 tracking cases, but I don't know if the numbers that I've got 15 in my in-house are reliable. I would say right now I've got 16 over 250 cases in Kerr County. We're -- I don't know that 17 we've got a backlog. It's something that the Sheriff and I 18 try to regularly meet about. If we've got somebody that's in 19 the jail for an extended period of time, we -- we try to give 20 special attention to those cases. But I think, all in all, 21 we're clipping along very efficiently. There's always room 22 for improvement, but it's -- it's looking pretty good right 23 now, I think better than we've looked in a few years. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a number of questions. 25 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir? 8-16-11 bwk 8 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You're -- this young lady's got a 2 track record with you. You've been able to observe her two 3 summers -- 4 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and see about her work ethic and 6 abilities and so forth. And irrespective of the dollar 7 figure that's attached, that is the kind of individual you'd 8 want to bring on staff? 9 MR. BARTON: That's kind of a double-edged, you 10 know, question, because I would ideally like to have a 11 20-year experienced prosecutor. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 13 MR. BARTON: But given that -- so there is a little 14 bit of consideration in -- I'm willing to take somebody 15 that's -- that's fresh out of school for $30,000 a year. I 16 mean, that's -- that's -- that definitely weighs into my 17 consideration. The past two summers she's worked in the 18 office, I have been able to observe her work product; it's 19 excellent. She has a lot to learn. I'm not going to tell 20 you that she's -- I would turn her loose just roughshod, but 21 she -- I do trust her. She's very competent. She handles 22 the defense attorneys real well, so -- and it's something 23 that I hadn't even really considered until she countered with 24 that $30,000 deal. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, you've got an additional income 8-16-11 bwk 9 1 stream coming to you as a result of recent legislative 2 changes, don't you? 3 MR. BARTON: From Edwards County, yes, sir. We are 4 -- it's been told to me that they're going to pitch in about 5 $25,000 into our budget, which represents about 6 percent of 6 our budget. That's -- that's welcome. You know, we've got 7 places we can go with that immediately. State apportionment 8 in Austin for district attorneys was cut this previous year, 9 so that'll help offset some of those losses that we had from 10 the state, what we call the state apportionment fund, which 11 is the State's contribution to the district attorney's 12 budget. Which I think in past years has been about 40 -- 13 40-something thousand, when you add the travel reimbursement 14 and all those things that -- all the moneys that you get from 15 the state. And it's been cut down; I don't know how 16 significantly, what the actual number is going to be. Rob 17 may know. I don't know if you receive the exact same state 18 funds that -- that the D.A.'s office does, but there has been 19 a significant cut in those funds. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What about benefits? 21 MR. BARTON: She said no benefits. She's covered 22 under her husband's insurance. I was hoping that that would 23 inure to the benefit of the -- the county. I think if she 24 was brought on in some kind of contract labor capacity -- and 25 I would certainly be happy to visit with whoever's doing H.R. 8-16-11 bwk 10 1 kind of stuff right now, if that might be the better way to 2 do it. Because I understand the County's obligation, or how 3 it's desired by the County that if you're going to be a 4 county employee, you're -- you're covered under whatever -- 5 whatever we've got. So, that -- that -- I'm certainly open 6 to suggestions on an appropriate way to handle that. But 7 from my perspective, that will be about a $600-a-month 8 savings that -- actual dollars that we wouldn't have to pay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Barton? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I want to review, 11 though. Is there some way we can plug this in and flag it -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for a possible chainsaw 14 or whatever later on? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We can put it in Tim's budget 16 for now. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In Tim's budget? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm inclined to say no. I'd 20 rather leave it out and we can put it back in, rather than 21 put it in and have to take it out. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got to put it somewhere 23 to remember to put it in. I don't -- I don't mean to put 24 it -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put it down right here. 8-16-11 bwk 11 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't mean put it in the 3 budget; I mean put it somewhere where we can see it later on. 4 I imagine there's going to be a lot of that stuff today, I 5 would think. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, I don't know 7 what's easier, and I'll defer to the Auditor as to how it's 8 easiest to keep track of these, whether it's easier to -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Put them in. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put them in. I just want to 11 make sure they're in one spot so we can -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We can code those so that we can 14 all -- put them all in once? Okay. 15 MR. BARTON: Commissioner Letz, there's another 16 issue that we had as a note on our budget, that I haven't 17 computed in any raises for any of my employees. I would 18 respectfully ask the Court, if y'all do see fit to grant 19 adjustments, COLA adjustments or whatever, that that be 20 considered with the two employees that I'm -- I'm asking Kerr 21 County to contribute towards their salaries. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. I would just -- 23 MR. BARTON: Just to keep in line with what 24 everybody else is doing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. What's good for one 8-16-11 bwk 12 1 employee is good for all of them. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney? 3 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there some way it's doable for 5 us, if we decide to bring an employee on, to do it by some 6 methodology where -- 7 MR. LOONEY: Do it as an independent contractor. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That way we keep the plan 9 intact? 10 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. BARTON: Thank you very much. You've all got 13 my cell phones. If you have any questions, need me to come 14 back or whatever, I'll be happy to. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll run you down. 16 MR. BARTON: Or if you needed any other numbers 17 about court performance or -- I can get all that from Linda, 18 and I trust her numbers better than I trust what our 19 software's telling me. But -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to have her coming up 21 here asking for a boost in a minute by doing that. 22 MR. BARTON: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Looney, are you ready to 8-16-11 bwk 13 1 barge into the -- the health benefits portion of this thing? 2 MR. LOONEY: Judge, I'm about as ready as I'm going 3 to be. You all -- Gary Looney, for the record. You all 4 received information actually before I did. We've been after 5 the Texas Association of Counties to give us some firm 6 numbers for a proposal for this fall. I -- this is the 7 proposal, and as you can see by the cover letter, it's 8 actually something I guess we forced them into getting to us 9 today, so that they're saying that the caveat is that the 10 full-blown proposal is on its way; that this is a -- a 11 summary, and as a summary, there may be other items in their 12 full-blown proposal that -- that I haven't seen as yet that 13 may impact on what they've given us. But essentially, what 14 they've done is they've duplicated the current Humana 15 contract and the form of benefits, and then offered an 16 alternative to that. While sitting here, Judge, just a few 17 minutes ago, I got a text message from Humana that said that 18 based on the information that they are giving me, they said 19 it will be no greater than a 5 percent increase in premium 20 rates for the next year. And the caveat to that was, of 21 course, this is negotiable. 22 So, that was the text message I got sitting here. 23 You heard my phone vibrate, didn't you? So, we've been after 24 them to get hard numbers for you guys for the budget for the 25 last six weeks. We've given TAC information on three or four 8-16-11 bwk 14 1 different occasions. They've asked for additional summary 2 information on a number of occasions. According to 3 Mr. Norwood, who made the presentation to the Court, they're 4 right in the middle of their busiest season, because every 5 county that they do business with in the state is in the same 6 circumstance as far as trying to finalize budgets for this 7 year, and so that is why they're telling us that the numbers 8 have been so long in coming. But the numbers that they've 9 given us here in the form of premium rates are firm numbers 10 based on this summary of benefits that they've given us. So, 11 it's -- I was talking to somebody the other day; I said I 12 feel like we've gone to a gunfight and I've got my gun, but I 13 don't have any bullets. Because I don't -- I don't know 14 where to aim; I don't know where to -- so now at least I've 15 got something that I can deal with as far as negotiating 16 benefit plan designs and pricing. So -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess the bottom line at this 18 point, Mr. Looney, is Humana's telling you not to exceed 5 19 percent increase? 20 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Which would be approximately 22 $90,000, the way I compute it. We're at about 1,8 in our 23 plan now. Have you had a chance to run these TAC numbers to 24 see how that runs out dollar-wise for the entire county? 25 MR. LOONEY: We still -- in the current plan, we 8-16-11 bwk 15 1 still offset some of the dependent costs. We still have some 2 credit going for dependent cost where we've offset some of 3 those premium balances. So I'm sure employee numbers, if -- 4 if it's just an employee number, much the plan of benefits 5 falls within the category of actually being a little less 6 than what the current budget is, even using some of the 7 credit then for offsetting some of the employee dependent 8 costs. But, again, Judge, I've had this for -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I know. 10 MR. LOONEY: -- 15 minutes, and so -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- just so we can 12 compare, 'cause they gave it on a per-employee basis, can you 13 give us the Humana numbers on a -- one, what we're paying 14 right now per employee, and two, what the proposal from 15 Humana is if you add a 5 percent increase? Or what -- does 16 someone have that number? 17 MS. HARGIS: Let me go and see if I can pull them 18 from last year, 'cause we couldn't find it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So, for purposes of trying to plug 20 in a -- 21 MR. LOONEY: Well, what the attempt -- what we're 22 trying to do at this point, Judge, is that we know -- I'm 23 sure that y'all have had employees express their opinions 24 about the fact that a $3,000 deductible plan is a very 25 difficult one to manage from a budget standpoint. We knew 8-16-11 bwk 16 1 that last year going into it. So, you know, we're trying to 2 get in the position, staying within budget, where we can 3 increase the benefits, reduce that obligation to employees on 4 that $3,000 deductible that's currently there. The $3,000 5 deductible plan, though, is a plan that I feel like that 6 should stay in place. The reason is because it qualifies 7 under a federal limitation on health savings or health 8 savings account benefits. And for those individuals that 9 have the ability to manage that $3,000 number, it is still a 10 good plan of benefits for tax purposes for them. 11 The other plan may be -- that we recommend may be a 12 lower deductible, incorporating back into the plan some 13 co-payments for doctor's office visits and benefits for 14 prescription drugs. We'll hopefully be able to get that back 15 into the plan under the budget restraints of not increasing 16 budget for next year. Our claims experience of Humana is 17 good, but we only have seven months of history on a fully 18 insured plan that started off with a very high deductible, so 19 it should be good. It should be very good. So, you know, 20 we're trying to then build back into the plan maybe a 21 different plan that's got co-payments and prescription drug 22 reimbursement. That's the intent. But before we got these 23 numbers, before we actually had comparative and competitive 24 numbers, and the plan design that TAC was offering, we didn't 25 have any ability then to go back and negotiate. Now that 8-16-11 bwk 17 1 we've got these numbers, we have the ability to negotiate. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: For purposes of trying to fill a 3 major hole in the budget to work the remaining budget around, 4 are you confident that we can keep it at approximately the 5 same amount, the 1,8 as we had last year -- this current 6 year? 7 MR. LOONEY: I -- you know, we will be able to keep 8 it at a million, eight. How much of a subsidy that will be 9 able to be generated back for dependents to offset the 10 dependent cost will depend on the differential in what we can 11 differentiate in the premium, but the budget -- overall 12 budget, if we were to select the lowest benefit plan, the 13 employee cost would be somewhere in the million, four range, 14 million, five. But that's the $3,000 deductible plan. 15 That's based on tax numbers that they've just given us, 16 assuming we have a population of 275 employees. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question for one of 18 the numbers people that understand insurance. When I 19 multiply the premium, 426.42, times 265, which is about our 20 number of employees, times 12, that should be the insurance 21 number. What's the other -- 22 MR. LOONEY: I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That only comes up to 24 1,350,000. I'm hearing the Judge say 1.8 million. Why is 25 that so far off? 8-16-11 bwk 18 1 MR. LOONEY: I'm not sure what -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You didn't factor in 3 dependents. 4 MR. LOONEY: The dependents -- there's a dependent 5 subsidy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 MR. LOONEY: So the dependents are not paying for 8 the full premium cost that is charged by the insurance 9 company. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. So they got to add 11 some of that into the total. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not going to be -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not that much. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not that much? Here we're 15 at 1.35 versus 1.8. That's a $550,000 difference. And I'm 16 -- and the number that we're paying right now is -- it's -- 17 MR. LOONEY: I don't know what premium number 18 you're looking at, Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just using the TAC number, 20 426. 21 MR. LOONEY: Okay, that's the lowest -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the lower cost plan. 23 MR. LOONEY: That's the million, 380, I believe. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, a million -- well, I came 25 up with a million, three -- yeah, 356, something like that. 8-16-11 bwk 19 1 But I'm -- so the difference then is the dependent coverage? 2 MR. LOONEY: That's what I'm saying is depending -- 3 that's the lowest price plan we can offer. So, the county 4 contribution for providing that employee with the lowest 5 price plan would be approximately a million, four -- a 6 million, 380. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- 8 MR. LOONEY: And you have a million, eight budget 9 allocation, so how much of that differential then can be 10 applied back for the -- for that offsetting dependent cost. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to make sure I 12 was doing my math right up here on my little cheat sheet. 13 I'm pretty close. 14 MR. LOONEY: I'm going to get you your actuary 15 license yet. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, not me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, for budgeting purposes, if -- 18 for the present time, until we get something zeroed in on a 19 little bit better, using 1.8 as a planning mechanism as it 20 pertains to the remainder of the budget would be a safe 21 practice for us. 22 MR. LOONEY: I'll get you in at a million, eight or 23 less. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 8-16-11 bwk 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're at the point in 3 our budget process, we need to get closer than that. I mean, 4 that 500,000 -- that difference we're looking at, 300,000, 5 whatever, that's a penny or two pennies on the tax rate. We 6 need to -- at what point are we going to get to a number that 7 we can put in the budget, rather than just this placeholder, 8 I guess is my question. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's going to depend upon the 10 enrollment, I suspect. 11 MR. LOONEY: Depends on the enrollment somewhat, 12 and it also -- it depends on what you want as a final plan 13 design. Because the final plan design, that number may 14 change a little bit one way or another. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'd like to see, 16 I'd like to see a -- the kind of bare bones of where we are, 17 and then see whether it's COLA, some salary adjustments or 18 insurance adjustments to get up there, because I'm still -- I 19 don't want a tax increase. And I want to see, you know, what 20 we -- what the bare minimum is and go up, and then see what 21 we can afford to add. I can tell by the Judge's expression 22 he doesn't like that approach, or he doesn't like something I 23 said. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, some of the -- some of this 25 information you're not going to know until almost January 1. 8-16-11 bwk 21 1 It's going to be based upon enrollment, but some of these 2 other costs are offset too, either in whole or in part. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're telling me we don't -- 4 can't do any better than 1.8 million? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm not telling you that at all. 6 We can do a whole lot better. We can do zero if you want to. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to get a number 8 that's a real number. You know, our enrollment we're not 9 going to know for sure, but our history has been that our 10 dependent coverage has not been that great, and there's a 11 subsidy coming in from the employees on that. The big hit 12 and the big number is the number of employees and what the 13 premium is. 14 MR. LOONEY: Right now, if you wanted to take the 15 lowest number on the table, and you take that TAC lowest 16 price number, multiply it times the number of active 17 employees times 12, and that's your bottom line number. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the lowest -- the lowest 19 that you put in also carries the highest deductible. 20 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So you can put in -- I mean, 23 I guess if you wanted to really, you know, try to use this as 24 part of an employee benefit -- increased benefit over what 25 they had last year, you could use the second number and see 8-16-11 bwk 22 1 what that does, and that still should be less than where we 2 are now. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm doing that right now. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're doing that? Okay. 7 MR. LOONEY: Now, the big difference -- the big 8 difference, Commissioner, is that -- subtract that employee 9 number from the total number for the employee plus 10 dependents, and you're looking at, for a family, I think, 11 close to what, $1,000 a month differential? So that's where 12 the subsidy comes in, in the past, is reducing that number to 13 a manageable number. And that's the number that you don't 14 have, Commissioner Letz. That's -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're right. That's the 16 enrollment number. What happens with the -- 17 MR. LOONEY: Enrollment number in relationship to 18 the dependent participation. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. If you take the higher 20 plan, it comes out to 1.519. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then you probably ought to -- 22 you ought to use at least 1,7, 1.75. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure -- the Auditor 24 isn't here right now. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's gone to run some 8-16-11 bwk 23 1 numbers. She's doing the same numbers you're doing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like a good idea as to what 3 our dependent coverage component is this year, 'cause it's 4 probably not going to change a whole lot. 5 MR. LOONEY: Well, it went down from last year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 MR. LOONEY: Because of the premium increases. But 8 I think -- I'm sorry, I think the employee premium for adding 9 a family is $400 a month, I believe. Is that right? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. A spouse is 250. 11 MR. LOONEY: 250 for a spouse. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subsidizing -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Minimum -- the family plan is 14 450. 15 MR. LOONEY: 450. So, taking that in 16 consideration, you know, you're -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's covering -- the 18 450, that's just the additional amount, is 450? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That the employees pays? 21 They're paying 75 to 90 percent of it -- of the premium, 22 then. I mean, the -- the number that's over there was, like, 23 900 and 1,000 -- a little over $1,000 for the full family 24 coverage. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 954. 8-16-11 bwk 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 954. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know if the employees 3 are included in this one. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, they are on this one. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it can be about -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Commissioner, I'll have all those 7 numbers for you on a spreadsheet, but I didn't -- like I say, 8 I just got -- on the way up here, I didn't have my notes, so 9 now I got my notes. I can do it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I'm like Bruce -- 11 MR. LOONEY: When is the next budget workshop? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tomorrow. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tomorrow. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 o'clock. 15 MR. LOONEY: Unfortunately I've got to deliver a 16 similar presentation in Hidalgo County tomorrow at 1 o'clock, 17 and so -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're probably a little 19 more receptive. 20 MR. LOONEY: They are -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're hurting? 22 MR. LOONEY: They are much, much uglier. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What county? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hidalgo. 25 MR. LOONEY: Hidalgo County. 8-16-11 bwk 25 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 2 MR. LOONEY: They have sources of revenue that 3 y'all don't have, though. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, they sure do. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oil and gas, I'm sure, is 6 what you're referring to. 7 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Looney at 9 this point? 10 MR. LOONEY: I'll get the numbers back to you as 11 quickly as I can. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate it. Sheriff, you had a 13 question? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. On -- 'cause I feel 15 like I need to say something on behalf of my employees, at 16 least, with the majority. And my experience of 31 years is I 17 have never seen our employees so unhappy with insurance as 18 they have been with Humana. Even though there's a $3,000 19 deductible, there constantly seems to be an excuse why this 20 is going to be excluded or that's going to be excluded, and 21 all of a sudden, they're paying a whole lot more than that 22 3,000. And they -- you know, with the cut that they took 23 with the prescriptions and the co-pay, you know, that's one 24 of our biggest concerns, that the -- and then every year of 25 going out and rebidding and not knowing. And I'll just be 8-16-11 bwk 26 1 honest; I've never ever seen Kerr County employees as unhappy 2 as they have been this last year with health insurance, and I 3 think that needs to be taken into consideration when we're 4 looking at TAC or some of the other ones, 'cause it's been 5 bad. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lantz, you had a question or 7 comment? 8 MS. LANTZ: I just have a question for you. With 9 the new health care law that's going into effect, each 10 employer is going to be mandated by law of carrying insurance 11 for their employees. Opting out would not be an issue any 12 more. How are you going to incorporate that within the 13 county? Because a lot of employees do have spouses that do 14 work, and some of them are on their policies. Like, for 15 example, mine; I could not get on my husband's policy unless 16 I provided a copy that I was on my employer's policy. So, 17 how are you going to make sure that we're within those 18 guidelines? 19 MR. LOONEY: Well, the offering of -- circumstance 20 of offering to our employees and being mandated doesn't take 21 place until year 2014. And just as of yesterday, the 22 appellate courts and federal court stated that the mandatory 23 requirement for insurance for employees was not 24 constitutional. So, we have to wait until such time as the 25 Supreme Court makes their decision as to whether that 8-16-11 bwk 27 1 requirement for mandated offering will be mandated or not. 2 We have a series of -- of -- oh, it will be 30 pages of 3 methodology as to how an employer is going to be able to 4 offer -- not offer, what types of penalties will be imposed 5 if they did not offer. So, there's a whole series of -- of 6 information that may or may not be considered or have any 7 weight. We have to wait and see which ones are verified 8 before we apply something to a case. Right now, our 9 application's been to change the availability of benefits to 10 the age of 26. We have wellness benefits under the plan that 11 are mandated now. We have other things that are mandated 12 that are currently in the plan. But the mandate for an 13 provision of insurance for employees won't take place until 14 2014, and may not take place at all based on Supreme Court 15 rulings that are currently -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what you were also saying 17 is offer or not offer. That kind of sounds like the County 18 may have to offer it to employees, but the employees, 19 depending on how the rulings go, I understand, may still be 20 able to opt out, as long as the County -- 21 MR. LOONEY: Well, no, not the way the law is 22 currently written. The way the law is currently written is 23 that the -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They have to have it? 25 MR. LOONEY: It's mandated that they have health 8-16-11 bwk 28 1 insurance from some source. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, but if they have health 3 insurance from -- her husband, and she wants to opt out of 4 the county, would she be able to? 5 MR. LOONEY: That's one of the provisions in there. 6 But it doesn't exempt the County from making a contribution 7 on that employee's behalf for any expenses they may or may 8 not have in their spouse's plan. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions for Mr. Looney 10 relative to employee health benefits? Get out your pencil, I 11 guess. 12 MR. LOONEY: I'm going to go load my gun. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Appreciate you coming 16 up. Okay. I'm sure every one of you has had an opportunity 17 to review what we denominate the "Administration 18 Recommended." If any of you within a department have a 19 concern about something that's been done to your budget as 20 reflected by the administration recommended, I guess now's 21 the time to address it. Maintenance, have you reviewed your 22 administration recommended budget? 23 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, I have. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Got any problems? 25 MR. BOLLIER: The only problem that I have was in 8-16-11 bwk 29 1 510, supplies, 350. We went from $25,000 in the budget from 2 last year to -- what is it, 15? To 15,000. The only problem 3 that Maria and I have with that is that we do not know if 4 things are going to go up, and Maria was trying to get -- 5 wanted a little more money in there, a little more, like 10 6 percent. And I think Tess had added another $2,500 in there 7 as of yesterday as we -- when we talked. So, I think she 8 added to it, like, 1,750. I believe that's the number you 9 and I came up with yesterday. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. BOLLIER: 1,750 to 1,800. And other than that, 12 I think that was the only -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. BOLLIER: -- discrepancy that we had in the 15 budget. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we did some work on 17 annualizing that, and -- 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- squeeze a little bit more on it. 20 MS. MABRY: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. Mr. Trolinger? 22 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, but I do have a couple 23 ideas on consolidating telephone, if I can address that later 24 on. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-16-11 bwk 30 1 MR. TROLINGER: I'd like to look at that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: County Clerk? 3 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're good with what's 5 administration recommended? 6 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What about your records management 8 and all those others? 9 MS. PIEPER: We're set for a public hearing on the 10 22nd, and I believe there's also an agenda item to approve 11 that. Basically, all that's going to be is just to pay that 12 third and final payment on the contract that we've been 13 working on for the last three years, and then I'll let my 14 records management money build up and reassess what needs to 15 be done. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a special fund allocation 17 anyway, isn't it? 18 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, all the rest of those 20 are -- you're good with? 21 MS. PIEPER: I'm good with. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. District Clerk? 23 MS. UECKER: I think I'm good with what we have 24 here. I don't have the records management, but as long as 25 it's what -- same as last year, that's okay. 8-16-11 bwk 31 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax Assessor? 2 MS. BOLIN: In 402, you lowered my office supplies 3 from 10,000 to 6,500. And this is the year that we have to 4 order our voter registration cards. And because of the 5 legislation, we have to order new statement of residence 6 cards and confirmation cards, so everything we have to have 7 goes in the trash. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Have to have those what? 9 MS. BOLIN: Everything that we have currently that 10 we use has to go in the trash because of the new verbiage 11 that has to go on the cards. We cannot use them. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's the basis of -- 13 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And what -- 15 MS. BOLIN: Every other year it goes up because of 16 voter registration. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I remember we had a postage issue on 18 your election -- elections budget, the voter registration. 19 MS. BOLIN: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That keeps -- did you make a note in 21 your budget request of that as a special item? 22 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we there yet, Tess? 24 MS. MABRY: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The increase was the best you could 8-16-11 bwk 32 1 estimate, the cost of the additional materials you'd need? 2 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. BOLIN: We should be able to go back down to 5 the 6,500 next year without a problem. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. BOLIN: It's just every other year I have the 8 spike in postage. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Treasurer? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm fine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health? 12 MR. GARCIA: Fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Detention? 14 MR. STANTON: We're fine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Animal Control? 16 MS. WHITT: We're fine, other than Tess and I 17 talked about what you and I talked about yesterday, Judge, 18 the carrier. We increased my operating by $1,100 for a 19 change in our carrier. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Otherwise you're good? 21 MS. WHITT: Otherwise I'm good. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Barton, other than the 23 issue that you talked about a little bit ago, you're good? 24 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir, thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Road and Bridge? 8-16-11 bwk 33 1 MR. ODOM: We're fine, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Except you'd like your wish 3 list on capital? 4 MR. ODOM: That would -- I would appreciate if 5 you'd consider that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got you plugged in for 7 some, those two new trucks and side loader. 8 MR. ODOM: They always said if you don't ask, you 9 won't receive, right? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin, you had a question? 11 MR. STANTON: Well, yes, sir. Just real quick on 12 our telephone budget, we had $10,500 budgeted in there last 13 year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. STANTON: And I believe that was prior to the 16 change-over of the new phone system, so I think that that can 17 be reduced by a little bit. 18 MR. TROLINGER: And, Judge, that's what I was 19 alluding to. I think if we consolidate the telephone line 20 items, now that it is one phone system county-wide, that I 21 can economize -- and, for instance, I've got a couple places 22 that we need to spend a little bit more money, and other 23 places, a lot less. And if we summarize that in one line 24 item under I.T., I think we'll be able to manage that better. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Your suggestion is to bring all that 8-16-11 bwk 34 1 based telephone service under I.T.? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Just like we'd done with software 3 and hardware in the past, yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What sayeth the Auditor? 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, I have to look at it. I want to 6 -- you know, that's going to take away from our call centers 7 a little bit, and the way we have it set up now, because the 8 bill comes coded by department so we kind of know what each 9 department is doing. When we -- that way we can send it out 10 to them and make each one of them accountable for their own. 11 So, I -- we'd have to work out a different system. Let's 12 look at it. I mean, I'm not opposed to it, but let's look at 13 it first. And -- 14 THE JUDGE: Well, of course, you're -- at least in 15 theory, you're putting the same hickey on every department, 16 so that relative to each other, they're all going to be 17 roughly the same, probably. You understand what I'm saying? 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, they're probably not going to be 19 the same, because each department has different -- a 20 different amount of phones. So, without long distance we 21 should be better; we shouldn't have a problem. I've not seen 22 any. But we still have a few, like he said, stray phones 23 here and there from different people. We still have a few 24 faxes in there that are on Windstream. So, let's look at it 25 all together, and we'll bring it back tomorrow, if you give 8-16-11 bwk 35 1 us a little bit of time. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Reckon that's something you 4 and the Auditor and the I.T. person can go work out? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, that would be great. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Initially them, and -- but what I 7 was speaking of in relative terms, with a bigger operation, 8 you're going to have more phones. So, as a percentage of 9 total cost, it should be about the same, whether it's a large 10 organization or a small organization, is my theory at least. 11 MS. HARGIS: If we needed to cost it out, we'd just 12 see how many phones they have and divide it out. We could 13 figure it out. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, back to Leonard, I have 16 a question for Leonard. Leonard, I know the -- you had in 17 the budget the tie-in and the fencing at Hermann Sons Road. 18 That may or may not happen this budget year. And I don't 19 know if there's -- you know, what money's in there for this 20 year, but I don't know if that needs to be -- the contract 21 fees, I know, are pretty low, down to 25,000. 22 MR. ODOM: Very low, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a fair amount. I don't 24 know if this should all be done in-house or how it's going to 25 be done, to what extent TexDOT's going to contribute to that. 8-16-11 bwk 36 1 It doesn't appear like much, from what I'm seeing out there. 2 MR. ODOM: They're not going to any more than what 3 you see. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, so I just -- 5 you know -- 6 MR. ODOM: Well, the only -- the only other thing 7 is the money that we get from the City for the sealcoat, 8 which we're doing today. And the other possibility is the 9 amount of money that I have in salaries that I haven't 10 filled. I have a surplus there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was looking forward from next 12 year. This year, if we can get it done this year, great. 13 We'll try to get as much of that done. 14 MR. ODOM: How much are we talking about? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I can get with 16 you after the meeting and we can go over it and see if there 17 needs to be -- it's just a contract fee item. I mean, it 18 shouldn't -- I think you're probably okay, but I don't know 19 what else you had planned for that 25,000. 20 MR. ODOM: Well, I've got different money now. 21 There's a few items that we could pull, but that 25 should do 22 it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We can try to get it 24 done this year as much as we can, at least get started on it. 25 MR. ODOM: Our reserves are going to be -- if we 8-16-11 bwk 37 1 have to do something, the reserves are fine too for next 2 year, so -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: -- it's not going to hurt us. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard, where are you doing that 7 sealcoating today? 8 MR. ODOM: I think it's Barbara Ann, all those 9 streets that have female names. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Donna Kay, mine. It's got the 11 tar all over it. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Nancy Beth. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, he got us good. Here I 14 wanted to blame the City, and I got to blame him. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: In-laws will appreciate it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ought to be saying thank you 17 instead of blaming. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you for maintaining the road. 19 MR. ODOM: Arcadia Loop will -- they're working on 20 that now, so we'll go -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Doing base repair? 22 MR. ODOM: Sir? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Doing base repair? 24 MR. ODOM: There's a big base repair we wanted them 25 to fix. And I think once they do that -- the less I say, 8-16-11 bwk 38 1 the less I -- Dad said if I can't say something good about 2 somebody, don't say it at all. (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I was going to ask a question, but 4 I'm not going to do it now, Leonard. But that's going pretty 5 good? 6 MR. ODOM: I think so. I just left it. We just 7 started, and it's slow. We had a good discussion this 8 morning about safety, and some of the areas are dangerous on 9 the inclines, and traffic control. But other than that, I 10 think we're going fine. The people are coordinating -- I 11 mean cooperating with us. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 13 MR. ODOM: We haven't had to remove anything; 14 they've moved them. So, it's just a little bit different 15 ballgame than the city versus where we're at. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. J.P. 1? 17 JUDGE BILLEITER: You haven't changed anything 18 else, have you? 19 MS. MABRY: No, sir. 20 JUDGE BILLEITER: I'm fine. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: J.P. 3? 22 JUDGE MITCHELL: Fine. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: H.R.? 24 MS. MAGENHEIMER: She's out in the hallway. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-16-11 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Taking care of people there 2 out in the hallway. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Extension? 4 MR. WALSTON: We're good. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney? 6 MR. HENNEKE: No, thank you, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Auditor? 8 (Ms. Hargis shook her head negatively.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't drank any in a 11 long time, but I think I need one. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sheriff? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course. The only thing was 14 what the Auditor and I talked about on vehicles. If we do go 15 ahead and start rotating those -- we actually had four. She 16 talked about possibly -- I originally said three, but there's 17 four of the Tahoes we got at the same time. That's the 18 oldest ones that the sergeants are driving. If we rotate 19 those on down, it would be replacing four, but she was 20 looking at possibly purchase instead of a lease. And in 21 researching that, you come up -- the lease was 45,000 total 22 for three of them per year for the next three years. The 23 purchase is 45,000 each total, which would replace with the 24 equipment and everything. So, it's just whatever y'all want 25 to do on that. The other thing is, on the number of 8-16-11 bwk 40 1 employees, I have five positions that I did not fill for most 2 of the year. I told you I would like to have the clerk in 3 the jail back and a civil deputy back. And the only other 4 one, if we could get it, is I'm down to only one narcotics 5 officer, and I would like to have that -- a second narcotics 6 officer back. So, they're in the budget. All five, from my 7 understanding, are all still in the budget. Three of those 8 five were investigators at higher pay. One was a jailer, one 9 was a clerk. But if I could get those three back, it's still 10 a pretty good cut out of the budget. But other than that, 11 all the other stuff, we've sat down and talked, and I have no 12 problems. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Sheriff, you're -- let me 14 rephrase what you just said. How I heard that is that you're 15 willing to permanently delete two of those positions. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm willing to permanently 17 delete two of those positions. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Where did I have the understanding 20 that you agreed to give up three? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, as these budget hearings 22 keep going, we're going to go down to -- to one -- no. And I 23 did -- and that's what I said in the first hearing. I 24 originally asked for the clerk and the civil deputy back. 25 But on our narcotics, I've assigned him to work with the 8-16-11 bwk 41 1 city's unit, but I really could use that second narcotics 2 investigator back. That's -- that's a weak point on that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So this is still working up here, 4 then? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still working. We haven't put 8 it in neutral yet. But those and the vehicles are the -- you 9 know, and like I said, the Tahoes that we would be moving 10 down into C.I.D., and I do have C.I.D. cars and all those 11 with over 100,000 easy, some of them with 150. Most of them 12 are seized vehicles. I can make it another year with the 13 same Tahoes on the road, but then we're going to really start 14 getting hurt, because they're all going to come up at the 15 same time. I've got -- of the original four that we got, the 16 '08's now have right at 68,000 to 70,000 miles on them right 17 now, and so we're -- we're -- you know, we can go another 18 year; I'm not concerned with that. But we're going to get in 19 a bind if we don't -- 20 (Court reporter started coughing.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Hold on. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There's something about what you 24 said that didn't ring true. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster has been leaning over 8-16-11 bwk 42 1 whispering in her ear. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster, it's you again. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's where we're at. 5 The only -- the only other issue is whatever y'all want to 6 do -- I know two of y'all went on that tour at Bastrop of the 7 minimum security -- if you want to start moving that, the 8 next Commissioners Court meeting, I'll put that on the 9 agenda, what kind of effect and everything to look at with 10 that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, let's get back to those 12 Tahoes for just a second. If -- that older bunch, if we keep 13 running them, that trade value's going to drop off pretty -- 14 pretty rapidly, isn't it? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, yeah. Once you get up 16 over 70,000, that trade value is going to start going down if 17 we trade them in and don't rotate them down. But we can 18 drive either way. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's one of the original 21 reasons we went with Tahoes, is that they do have a better 22 trade-in value than the Crown Vics did. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Lantz, have you had an 24 opportunity to talk with your folks and try and get a handle 25 on what your budget is? 8-16-11 bwk 43 1 MS. LANTZ: We did. And we're -- what's been 2 proposed will -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You think you can do with what's 4 there now on administration recommended? 5 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, you really did a job 8 on these people. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me give credit where credit's 10 due. Let me give credit where credit's due. Tess has been 11 doing -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good job. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and the Auditor, been doing the 14 vast majority of this. They've taken a lot of that off me, 15 and I appreciate it. You had a question? 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. I had requested some 17 part-time salary to try to help us through the tax season and 18 the elections coming up, and all the work that's going to be 19 done. But I noticed in 499, that has been zeroed out. Is 20 there no way to get a little bit of part-time money? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Put that on one of the -- one of the 22 lists to look at. How much -- how much are you talking 23 about? 24 MS. BOLIN: Well, I had 7988, but even 5,000 is 25 better than nothing at this point. 8-16-11 bwk 44 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I've already made a better deal, 2 haven't I? 3 MS. BOLIN: You have. I tried to figure up how 4 much I would need, how much time I would need. With Les 5 retiring and having to pull somebody off of that counter to 6 help train the new person, provided y'all let me do that on 7 the 22nd, then I've got to have somebody that can cover my 8 counter while we're training, because we're really short. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll look at that. You have 10 a question? 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, Your Honor. The 12 Maintenance Department is still -- still short one person. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. BOLLIER: And, you know, without the rain this 15 year and everything, you know, we've been kind of fortunate 16 not to have a whole lot of grass to mow. But with -- you 17 know, we've had some extra duties added to us and stuff like 18 that, and, you know, I would like the Court to consider 19 letting the Maintenance Department hire that position back. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: How about we -- maybe put it in the 21 budget so that we're prepared, but sit tight and see how 22 things go. 23 MR. BOLLIER: That'll work. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another option, isn't it? 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 8-16-11 bwk 45 1 MS. HARGIS: It's in there. 2 MS. MABRY: Never been removed. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Already there? Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All -- 5 MS. HARGIS: All those positions are still there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All positions that are 7 vacant -- 8 MS. HARGIS: Are in there. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still in there. Probably for 10 the Auditor, another question I had, Judge, is that I know 11 that the jail bond pays off in February. According to what's 12 in the computer, February 15, pays that off. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's the last one, right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know we've -- you know, 15 we've been doing a lot of short-term -- that's the only 16 long-term debt we had on our books. We had some short-term. 17 Where are we on the short-term? And what I'm thinking is, 18 you know, my recollection is that we need to -- it helps us 19 to keep some long-term -- or some debt on our books. And, 20 you know, we really don't have a -- that I see, a definite 21 plan for a large capital purchase coming up, so it seems to 22 make sense to me to do another one similar to what we did the 23 last time, and put a little -- a lot of these capital items 24 in certificates of obligation, whatever you want to call 25 that, such as Leonard's maintainers and things like that. 8-16-11 bwk 46 1 When is the most opportune time for us to do that, based on 2 what's paying off and what's being carried on? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We should talk about that tomorrow, 4 shouldn't we? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the financial adviser will be 6 here tomorrow. 2014 is when we basically start to pay off. 7 We have a pretty big payment. It actually goes down next 8 year, then goes back up, and then way up on the tail. It 9 jumps -- we go down a million, three-something this year, and 10 then we go back up to a million, four, almost a million, five 11 that last year, because we put it all on the end. Because we 12 tried to level it out. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MS. HARGIS: And then we anticipated putting the 15 jail on around 2014, or selling that issue. So, that's kind 16 of where we were at on that. I think the financial adviser 17 has some more information for y'all, basically, on some of 18 the things that you've discussed, the venue tax and so forth 19 that have to be done, so it's kind of a combination of 20 things. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: So I think it will be better for him 23 to talk to you a little bit. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll wait till tomorrow. We 25 just need, I mean, -- 8-16-11 bwk 47 1 MS. HARGIS: He's got -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to monitor those and see 3 when's the best time to make some of these large purchases. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there's -- there's a number of 5 considerations that you got to plug into that. What are the 6 departments not represented here today? J.P. 2 and 4, 7 constables. 8 AUDIENCE: 198th, Rex. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to Rex. He said they're 10 tied up in a jury trial up there, so basically where we were 11 going here today, he's going to have Becky take a look at 12 those, and if there's an issue with anything administration 13 recommended, she'll be down here tomorrow. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He came down earlier before 15 the meeting started. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. So, we got the 17 courts. County Court at Law, I assume there's not any 18 problem. 19 MS. MABRY: I spoke with Kathy Gaulden this 20 morning; she indicated there wasn't any changes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, is the airport covered? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Airport. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Not -- no, we still got some things 8-16-11 bwk 48 1 hanging out on that one, I think. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on the airport, we're 3 probably over-budgeted. I mean, I don't think we're going to 4 take some off, but we probably could take 50,000 off of that, 5 or some amount, but we probably ought to wait until we meet 6 with the Airport Board on that. But it's certainly not going 7 to go up; probably going to come down, the way it looks. 8 MS. HARGIS: Be a good contingency item to have. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 10 MS. BOLIN: I was asked yesterday by one of the 11 board members for the Appraisal District what the County's 12 hand is on approval or disapproval or rebuttal on the budget. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we don't disapprove it in 14 60 days, it's automatic, isn't it? 15 MS. BOLIN: Far as I know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have to get high and 17 behind if we're going to disapprove it, because as I recall, 18 they had their approval of that budget late June. 19 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So if we don't do it by the next 21 meeting, they're in like Flynn. I don't know that anybody's 22 voiced objection. 23 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But has anybody asked to put that on 25 the agenda? Not yet. 8-16-11 bwk 49 1 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Still a few days to go, though. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really good. The only 4 question we usually ask about that is the salary increase 5 over there. What kind -- what are they asking this time? 6 MS. BOLIN: They're not asking for any salary 7 increase. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, there's a decrease in one. 9 MS. BOLIN: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have to raise a stink 11 about that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe we ought to approve 13 the son of a gun. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just don't do anything, and 15 it is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't give them a chance to 17 change their mind. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I made some adjustments on some of 19 the County-sponsored -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's that? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- yesterday or today. Those are 22 downward adjustments. 23 MS. MABRY: 595. It will be Page -- Page 77. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 77? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8-16-11 bwk 50 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was close. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trapper contract. What a 3 joke. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What is it? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trapper contract. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How long have you been doing 7 that? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 150 years. Just for fun. 9 It's -- it's the Letz -- the Letz ranch. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got a roll of tape here. 11 Want to throw that at him? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just asked. 13 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the Dietert Claim we 15 cut last year. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we cut them 10,000. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that cut into their 18 Meals on Wheels program. That's always bothered me. I don't 19 know what to do about it. I think they've done some 20 fundraisers up there to make up for -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That difference. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the difference. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe they came in last 24 year and asked if we could give this amount so they could 25 still qualify for some grants. 8-16-11 bwk 51 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The state -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we hadn't done this 4 amount, it would have -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What happened is that early on, they 6 were getting a big chunk of state funds, because a lot of the 7 counties had not made allocations to their senior programs. 8 And once they discovered that if they could give -- it's a 9 certain amount per head, they could qualify, so a bunch of 10 other counties got on board. That's why the state allocation 11 to Dietert has -- has gone down. The amount that -- that we 12 plugged in is above the minimum amount required. They get a 13 notice of how much each county -- the minimum amount is based 14 on their calculations at Texas Department of Agriculture. 15 So, the 4,900, I believe it is, 47 -- where is that? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 45. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The note says that indications 21 are that the City's going to raise their contribution to 22 economic development to 25,000. Were they not at 25,000 23 already? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure they were. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just said raise it to 8-16-11 bwk 52 1 25,000, what's in the notes, and that's what I -- 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Down on the bottom. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The indications are it will 4 raise the contribution to -- raise the contribution to 5 25,000. 6 MS. MABRY: That's a permanent note, and so that 7 was a note that I didn't remove, because it was put in before 8 me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. 10 MS. MABRY: So that's why it's still there. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're not contributing more 12 than they were. 13 MS. MABRY: Unless I have an indication to change 14 it otherwise, I leave it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is the -- the new format 16 working on that? I'm kind of moving over into Buster's camp 17 on that. We shouldn't even be doing that one. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got some things to say 19 too. 20 MS. HARGIS: On which one? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've always been in favor of 22 it, but the way the last reorganization took place, it kind 23 of -- I had questions, and I'm wondering if it's -- whether 24 we're -- whether the county is truly being considered under 25 economic development. That's my question. Or is it a city 8-16-11 bwk 53 1 economic development? If it's the City's economic 2 development, then the City should fund it. If it's truly a 3 county economic development, I don't have a problem. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The current funding mechanism for 5 the E.D. corporation is 25,000 from City, County, and KPUB, 6 the balance coming from E.I.C., which is -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 250? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 275. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 275. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess what is -- what are 12 they -- so that's over 350 -- 350,000. What's going on with 13 that 350, other than -- or what's being funded with that? 14 Let me rephrase it. It's not city staff, I hope. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, it's -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fire truck. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a separate budget for the 18 E.D. corporation. There's a director that was brought on 19 board in January. He has an administrative assistant. Guy 20 knows all about this; it's essentially what he had. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let's just say the budget 22 tripled. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- I haven't 24 heard a word from them since the reorganization, and that 25 leads me to believe the County's not really participating in 8-16-11 bwk 54 1 it very much. And that is why -- that's the reason for my 2 question. Now, the way the previous setup was, there was -- 3 you know, there was a lot of interaction between the -- 4 whatever the old corporation was called and the County. And 5 now that the funding's coming basically out of the City, or 6 City-controlled, or -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: City-controlled funds. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City-controlled funds, you 9 know, is it truly -- what are they doing with it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, the -- back 11 in the olden days, about three years ago, they used to come 12 in this courtroom and tell us their plan and what was going 13 on, what they've been doing last year, and what their plan is 14 for the future and -- and all those things, and which was 15 very informative. I remember we -- we actually worked with 16 them on some tax abatement program and one thing and another, 17 and then suddenly one year, instead of coming in here and 18 making a presentation to the county fathers, they chose to 19 have a lunch out at Riverhill and present it to -- I don't 20 know who all those people were. And then the year after that 21 was at the new golf course, which I chose not to do. That's 22 not a presentation, in my opinion. So they quit coming, and 23 now they're not even having the lunch this year, it looks 24 like. So, it's just, you know, "Y'all send us money, and 25 we'll -- you don't worry about what we're doing," and that 8-16-11 bwk 55 1 kind of thing. I mean, that's the way I'm kind of reading 2 it. I'm anti the thing to begin with, and then when they 3 don't come in and make any kind of presentation whatsoever, 4 that just doubles my negativity toward it. So, I have moved 5 the last couple of years to delete that line item, and that's 6 my desire again this year, is to take it and move that money 7 up to the Dietert Claim. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly what I was -- 9 you want to move it up to the trapper? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The trapper line? 11 (Laughter.) Maybe we can get two trappers. I love the 12 trapper program. Its just an easy thing to pick on, okay? 13 But this thing here -- you have to wait your turn. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You go ahead. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This thing here, it just -- 16 I mean, we're just signing a check and sending it over there. 17 We don't have a clue, not -- we don't. I know you two guys 18 do. But us commitschners -- just letting you know that this 19 Commissioner is bilingual -- that the commitschners don't 20 have a clue what's going on. I mean, has there been any 21 business come to Kerr County to -- to inquire about setting 22 up shop? Or is it just -- I mean, is this whole thing about 23 -- about y'all going to Washington or what? I mean, you 24 smiled about that, but this -- this is a hell of a lot of 25 money right here. 8-16-11 bwk 56 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have a clue what 3 we're doing here with it. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It might behoove me to maybe ask 6 that gentleman to come down here and give us a report. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that would be 9 fantastic. I'm still going to say no, but... (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or we can take the money out 11 and see if they notice. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think one thing that we -- 16 one thing that we tried -- from that previous position, we 17 tried to make it -- it was kind of an anticipated annual 18 report to the County. And I think that was one thing that we 19 -- at the time, and the former way it was set up, it was a 20 deal that we tried to do at least, if not a half a year 21 report to the County. And I think the other thing that's 22 alarming here for me is that one thing that -- that is 23 missing from the whole component of this funding for the 24 economic development is they have not gone out and involved 25 the private sector at all. I mean, let's look at -- the 8-16-11 bwk 57 1 funding part of this is all 4B funding. City's using 4B 2 funding basically as the major thrust of what they're 3 controlling, but there's been no effort to go out and involve 4 the private sector, to have their input as far as funding 5 money towards this, probably towards their organization. And 6 I think that's a -- that's a really big deal when you're not 7 going out and involving the businesses and not getting their 8 feedback on what's going on for the economic development 9 plan. I mean, we're -- the questions that -- Buster, that 10 you bring up are right on line. What's going on? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you agree with me -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that we remove this? 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I didn't say I was going -- I 16 would say I think Judge Tinley's comments about coming and 17 and making a report here needs to be -- you know, needs to 18 happen soon. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd go a little bit 20 further. I mean, the direction the City appears to be going 21 on E.I.C. right now, they're going -- their proposal that I 22 read in the paper -- I don't go to their meetings -- is that 23 they want to fix the city sewer system with the E.I.C. money, 24 and water system. I don't see how that's economic 25 improvement. I see that as -- as building more homes. I 8-16-11 bwk 58 1 think what the Judge pointed out to me -- I'll get you in the 2 middle -- that we don't need more homes; we need businesses, 3 and those will then -- then we'll get homes, and it will help 4 the tax base. I mean, I think -- I have a philosophical -- 5 or I am philosophically opposed to the direction the City's 6 going with economic development, and if I'm opposed to it, I 7 don't see why -- I don't want to fund it. I mean, if it's 8 all their money, they can -- you know, E.I.C., they've told 9 us till we're blue in the face, probably they're blue in the 10 face too, that it's not our money; it's their money, so keep 11 our hands off. Don't even talk about it. Well, fine. Then 12 they won't get any money from us either. So, that's kind of 13 where I am on economic development right now. And if they 14 truly want to make the County a partner, then I'll be glad to 15 fund it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll guarantee there's more 17 businesses moving outside the city of Kerrville than there 18 are being developed inside. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I'll take it a step 20 further. I agree with you on the E.D. -- the intent of the 21 infrastructure with, you know, what we're talking about, the 22 wastewater and those things. That I still think the same 23 thing with the trails -- the river trails discussion. Four 24 or five billion dollars for river trails? I mean, why not -- 25 if you're going to do river trails, why don't you start doing 8-16-11 bwk 59 1 maybe one-fifth of it, and let's see how it's received, how 2 it's worked, before you spend $5 million? I just -- I don't 3 understand the direction, the logic in what they're thinking 4 and what's going on, so good questions. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I see a -- a huge -- or 6 easy target for a lot of that money is the Mooney facility. 7 We have a huge problem out there. I think that fence needs 8 to be upgraded. Whether Mooney comes back to life or not, 9 we've got a bunch of buildings that something needs to be 10 done with, and that's economic development, doing something 11 with all that stuff. And -- but they've -- they have agreed, 12 "Oh, yeah, that's not a bad idea to look at that." It's not 13 good. So -- but my vote is -- I can't vote today, so my 14 recommendation would be take it off. But we're not -- 15 we're -- this is only a workshop. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, I love these government 17 trappers; they do a great job. What is there, two of them 18 now, or three? Four? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. We got another one that's 20 kind of split; part of that money goes to pay Kendall County. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I look at this monthly 22 report that they do. That -- one guy can't do all that. 23 That is -- that's incredible. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They also get a little help 25 periodically. 8-16-11 bwk 60 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the eastern part of the 2 county, from Hasenwinkel over to Elm Pass to the east, that's 3 handled out of Boerne trapper. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Kendall County? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're paying for it, yeah. 6 Hush. Incidentally, for those that don't know -- I probably 7 shouldn't say it, 'cause I don't know the actual condition, 8 but -- now I can't think of his name. 9 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Lich. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Victor. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Victor. Victor's wife is not 13 doing very well. She had a -- was found unconscious in her 14 house the other day by her son. So, our prayers are with the 15 Lich family. All I could think of was Vernon; couldn't think 16 of Victor. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Couldn't think of Victor, 18 huh? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a picture of him in my 20 mind that will never go away, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How could you ever forget the 22 picture? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more dead horses we want 24 to whip on? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That one there got whipped on 8-16-11 bwk 61 1 pretty good. I think both eyes are open and the buzzards are 2 out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to move on to one 4 other thing, but I probably ought to be quiet, so I'll keep 5 quiet. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, when do we want to 7 just talk about the First Responders deal that has been 8 brought up? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We can talk about it right now. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so much. First 11 Responders -- and we all probably saw the article in the 12 paper, but a lot of folks -- there's a lot of folks becoming 13 aware. I remember there was a gentleman in here a few months 14 ago -- I know what he wanted; he wanted us to contract with 15 the city ambulance service, 'cause they were the only people 16 smart enough to save lives. And in the conversation, the 17 First Responders came up. A friend of his had passed out at 18 the Y.O. Hotel, and the First Responders came. And the Judge 19 indicated to him that it was one of our people, one of our 20 guys that went out and basically saved the guy's life until 21 the ambulance could get there. And the poor fellow just 22 flatly refused to believe that; that it had to be a city 23 employee or the guy would be dead. But, you know, it's just 24 more and more, everywhere I go, people are talking about 25 these First Responders and what they do. And they are -- 8-16-11 bwk 62 1 they literally are out there saving lives and doing a 2 tremendous job. We have -- we have funded them, their -- 3 what's the heart machine? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Defibrillator. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The defibrillators, and 6 those glass-proof jackets and all that stuff that they use to 7 keep people alive. We fund that, and very proud to do that. 8 But I'm -- you know, I'm thinking that there's got to be some 9 compensation in this thing for those people, and I don't mean 10 a paycheck and that they become county employees. I'm 11 talking about reimbursing them for their fuel, at least 12 reimbursing them for their fuel. Now, the Auditor tells me 13 that they can only earn "X" amount of dollars or something 14 like that because of the I.R.S. issues. But to me -- to me, 15 that's kind of simple. You know, I don't have any numbers to 16 lay on the table to make an offer here, but it just seems 17 like to me that a First Responder, when they're called in the 18 middle of the night, or during the middle of the night, and 19 they get out of bed and they go out to the Interstate 10 to a 20 car wreck, we need to pay for their fuel from their house and 21 back to their house. And if there is an I.R.S. issue about 22 the amount, you -- I can see it; we can just cap that amount 23 of money that we give somebody at a certain level. And, 24 again, I don't have -- I don't have numbers, but something 25 could -- seems like to me something needs to be worked out in 8-16-11 bwk 63 1 that, a reasonable amount. Those people are going out at all 2 hours, and out of their own pockets. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's one thing for them to 4 give their time, but I think we really ought to reimburse -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: For gas. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree, at least fuel cost. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To me, that's a simple 8 thing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't we -- I mean, the easier 10 way to do it would be a standard mileage reimbursement. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the I.R.S. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of what I'm 14 talking about, doing that it way. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't -- can that be done? 16 MS. HARGIS: It can, as long as we don't go over 17 $600. If we go over $600 -- actually, $599, then they have 18 to go to -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd say cap it long before 20 that. You know, somewhere -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $400. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $400, $300, something. 23 Just -- 24 MR. ODOM: That's 3,000 miles, so they're not doing 25 3,000 miles. 8-16-11 bwk 64 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think they're doing 2 3,000 miles. I don't know. Just -- we'll work on those 3 numbers. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Give them the option to do it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor of that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I just believe we need to 8 do something like that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not talking about a 10 huge amount of money, for something that's very vital to 11 what -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, it's necessary. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's a good idea. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, let's plug that in. 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, we can plug it into that line 17 item, First Responder line item. You know, if we do 600, 18 it's 27,000. If you do 300, it's going to be half of that, 19 so y'all tell me what you want to put in there, and we'll 20 tell them that the cap is 300. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Annual. 22 MS. HARGIS: Annual. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does Eric -- doesn't he come in 24 with a grocery list of what they want to spend the money on? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to Eric earlier today, and 8-16-11 bwk 65 1 my purpose for talking to him today is once we got the big 2 list -- the really big wish list, the items are standard, 3 basic items that they all have with them now. And a few of 4 them have defibrillators, but his druthers would be that all 5 of them have defibrillators, all of them have radios and so 6 forth. And Ms. Lavender is going to look for some grant 7 money to fill out this big list. Maybe she can find some; 8 maybe she can't, but we don't know until she goes through her 9 drill. But every year we provide a certain amount for 10 supplies and whatnot. As I recall, it's around $5,000 -- 11 4,800, 5,000. And when we -- when we get that, why, that's 12 the standard stuff that -- the grant money, we're looking for 13 the remainder of the big stuff that you can't really do. 14 MS. HARGIS: We talked about radios, as I recall, 15 the last time he was here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. HARGIS: Remember, I think we had half of them. 18 He needed the other half changed because of the digital. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, have you plugged in 20 any step and grade increases? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: There have been a few that have been 22 plugged in, maybe half a dozen, possibly one or two more than 23 that, because of reorganization or increased job 24 responsibilities or -- as I recall, one of them was -- was 25 Ms. Lantz, and now, of course, that one's become superseded 8-16-11 bwk 66 1 and is not on the table any more. But right now, they are 2 included within that budget. They're in there. Do we have 3 some way we can -- we can pull those up independently? 4 MS. MABRY: I can't pull them up individually. I 5 do have a running total list that I can provide to you that I 6 have. We'll have to compare it to what H.R. has just to make 7 sure that I've got everything correct. But -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MS. MABRY: -- I do have a list of them. 10 MS. HARGIS: It's not that many. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 12 MS. HARGIS: It's not that many. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No. Six to eight, maybe. 14 MS. HARGIS: I don't think it's that many. I don't 15 even think it's six. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MS. WHITT: I just have a question, since y'all 18 were talking about the defibrillators and stuff. I know 19 there's several departments within the county that don't have 20 them. How could we go about getting some for -- that's kind 21 of been a concern at my department because of my condition, 22 and I understand it's a concern out at Road and Bridge also. 23 How could we go about -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The ones that we have here in the 25 courthouse came to us on a grant through KPUB, actually. 8-16-11 bwk 67 1 They just provided them to us. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Rosa Lavender looks at a lot 3 of different grants, and I think maybe it would be 4 something -- because I know, like, police department -- even 5 though the sergeants' cars have them in them, because a lot 6 of times they can be at a scene first, kind of like First 7 Responders, and if we could get -- if I remember, KPUB would 8 only do the three, I think, that they gave us that we have 9 here at the -- at the courthouse. But if we could get Rosa 10 to research some of those other grants, -- 11 MS. LAVENDER: I can do that. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- that may be beneficial for 13 her and us. I couldn't see you back there. 14 MS. LAVENDER: I think we can do that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting her to do anything 16 is the -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's hard to deal with Rosa, I 18 know. Look who she's married to. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Of course, they live 20 in my precinct, so I'm just going to -- it really becomes 21 easier and easier to get her to do things, 'cause she's so 22 wonderful. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Boy, is that what you call 24 pulling yourself out after you step in it? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If she lived in Precinct 2, 8-16-11 bwk 68 1 would you still say that? 2 MS. WHITT: Is there anything at the Ag Barn? We 3 don't have one at the Ag Barn, do we? 4 MR. BOLLIER: No, we don't have one at the Ag Barn. 5 The courthouse is the only place we have any defibrillators. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn needs to have one. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Ag Barn, you don't have one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They need one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure Ms. Lavender's going to go 10 through her mental directory of buildings and come up with 11 what we need there. 12 MR. BOLLIER: Would I use it on you? No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's apparently put in the budget 14 for this year. Tess? This -- what is it, 16-something 15 that's in there for First Responder supplies? 16 MS. MABRY: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Wasn't it about 5,000 last 18 year? 19 MS. MABRY: It was more than that. It was 14,8. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 21 MS. MABRY: Oh, wait a minute. Hold on, that's 22 requested. Look at the right column. They actually -- yeah, 23 they requested what is current for this year, which is 14,8. 24 MS. HARGIS: He asked for additional uniforms last 25 year, and some of the radios. That's the reason we raised 8-16-11 bwk 69 1 it, so they could get enough radios and enough gear for 2 everybody they needed, because the numbers had risen. He had 3 45 members, as I recall, at one -- 4 MS. LAVENDER: If you're talking about First 5 Responders, I think there's 38. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any more issues over there, 7 Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I just -- on the 9 reimbursement for the fuel, I would think that we'd -- 10 something like, you know, get Eric to be responsible for 11 turning those bills in and being accountable, or keeping all 12 that together for us, instead of the individual people. He's 13 a trustworthy guy and excellent employee, and -- anyway, I 14 just -- that's a thought. That's the second one I've had 15 this week, and I'm through. Thank you. 16 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, I agree with Commissioner 17 Baldwin. We'll have -- that Eric should be the pinpoint. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Have some sort of administrative 19 procedure. 20 MS. HARGIS: We'll come up with a form they can 21 fill out and so forth. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: Make it easy. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What other issues have we 25 got, gentlemen? Yes? 8-16-11 bwk 70 1 MS. BOLIN: Back to Commissioner Oehler's question 2 about the raises, are we looking at doing away with the 14's 3 and moving people to 15's, or not? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the things under 5 consideration, yes. 6 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the moment, there's no COLA 8 in the budget, correct? Or is there? There's nothing in 9 here right now? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there is. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, there is? How much? 12 What's the -- where are we on salaries in the budget -- 13 salary increases? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I figured that something less than 15 what's accrued since December of '08, the last COLA increase. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Six and a half. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six and a half percent across 19 the board? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Current numbers I have show 21 that. I don't even have July's yet; they won't be out for 22 another five days, approximately. But even through June, 23 with commodity prices and that sort of thing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Ms. Auditor? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes? 8-16-11 bwk 71 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you have that wonderful 2 summary sheet for us tomorrow? 3 MS. HARGIS: I do. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You already have it? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We were sitting up here 7 talking about that. 8 MS. HARGIS: Oops, they're upside down. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see a hole in that piece of 10 paper. 11 MS. HARGIS: Now, what? I think there's an extra 12 piece of paper in between each one, sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was there a special on paper 14 or something? 15 MS. HARGIS: I'll still come back on my machine. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The machine is causing us to 17 buy more paper. 18 MS. HARGIS: No, we'll put it back in the machine. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can have mine back. 20 MS. HARGIS: I'm still using Tommy's stationery to 21 run through my copy machine. That's what they're teasing me 22 about. That's a blank one. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is all these the same? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8-16-11 bwk 72 1 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. I don't have any extra, 2 guys, sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road districts? 4 MS. HARGIS: I haven't budgeted anything for this 5 year. There actually is no interest income coming in, so we 6 do -- we do have that amount in the bank. That's Precinct 1 7 and Precinct 4. If y'all have -- I think we asked Leonard -- 8 is there anything we need to do out of the Schreiner Road 9 District? 10 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about volunteer fire 12 departments? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There was nothing allocated 17 in there. I didn't see it. We talked about that. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we did. We have pretty 19 much indicated that we're going to -- if we were going to pay 20 the City that amount of money, volunteer fire departments 21 ought to get some. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just noticed that they've 23 been at the 15,000 level for quite an extensive time. 24 MS. HARGIS: The volunteer fire departments are in 25 here. 8-16-11 bwk 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But not -- 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No increase. 3 MS. HARGIS: No increase. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No $15,000 increase. 5 MS. HARGIS: No, no increase. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think everybody kind of 7 agreed that that was -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I would like to see us do 9 something. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: There was a motion, as I recall,, 11 that was actually voted on. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We did. We offered the City 13 400,000, and we were going to put $100,000 additional into 14 volunteer fire departments. I made the motion. 15 MS. HARGIS: How much? I'm sorry, I didn't hear. 16 5,000? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, what he said was he made a 18 motion that in lieu of paying the City 500,000 on fire 19 contract, his motion was that we offer them 400,000 and use 20 the other 100,000 to allocate to the volunteer fire 21 departments. 22 MS. HARGIS: I remember that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And, of course, the end result was 24 that we paid the City $500,000. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, so we cut the 8-16-11 bwk 74 1 volunteers out again. Give it to the ones who like to get 2 paid, and take the volunteers and expect more for nothing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me -- while we're 4 talking about fire, you'll note up there under the funds, the 5 second item, fire protection, you'll note that that is 6 unfunded. That's going to take two cents to fund that. And 7 that's the direct result of the increase in the costs that 8 we're paying the City for fire/EMS. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think you're 10 talking too loud and interrupting these people out here. I 11 can't believe you'd do something like that. Would you repeat 12 that, please? Now that I can hear? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Under fire protection in the 14 summary, second item, Fund 14. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll notice there's a big hole 17 there. It's unfunded. It's going to take two cents to the 18 tax rate to fund that. You'll recall, oh, gosh, some two or 19 three weeks ago, the City proudly announced that their budget 20 did not contain any tax increase -- tax rate increase, and no 21 utility rate increase. And the explanation they gave for 22 that was that they had -- their revenue was up by a 23 considerable amount, which prevented them from having to do 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8-16-11 bwk 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And later in the newspaper article, 2 they said the majority of that money, of course, came from 3 the County, and they referred to the fire and EMS contract, 4 to the tune of $900,000. So, that gap's got to be filled, 5 and my proposal will be that we increase the tax rate by two 6 cents to cover that portion of the budget for fire 7 protection, which, of course, includes EMS, as a result of 8 that shortfall. Maybe they didn't have to do it, but they 9 just passed it to us, and we have to do it. Now, the folks 10 in the city that like to complain about they pay for their 11 services and pay for half the cost of ours, I guess if they 12 think that's a valid theory, they're going to get to do it 13 again. Their only way out of it is an ESD. Now, you can 14 squabble all day as to whether or not the contracts had 15 relative value. You can crunch those numbers any way you 16 want to, but the bottom line is they cured their problem by 17 dropping it in our lap. Our citizens insisted that we engage 18 the City for those services, while we were telling them, you 19 know, "You're talking about a two-cent tax increase." And 20 the response was, "If that's what it takes, that's what it 21 takes. Engage them." So, that's where we are. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hold that speech for Monday. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. I think it's just a 25 warm-up. 8-16-11 bwk 76 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, just kind of getting organized 2 up here. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I detected a little bit of 4 anger in that thing there, just a tad. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He might need a practice run 6 at that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about this -- this 8 little mark in front of the numbers here, Juvenile Detention 9 Center? What are those little marks about? 10 MS. HARGIS: That means there's a deficit balance. 11 In other words, I propose that we're going to be about 12 $16,000 short coming into the current year, and we probably 13 will end up with a negative at the end. So, we're probably 14 going to have to fund that a little bit more. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, a little bit of 16 negative on the end -- $42,000 is a lot of money. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, instead of us just 19 automatically saying that we need to fund it with a little 20 more money, is there -- is there anything that we can do at 21 this point right now that -- I mean, do we need to reduce 22 staff out there or, you know, what? Is there anything that 23 we can do? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kevin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, instead of just 8-16-11 bwk 77 1 throwing money at it, "Here's a problem; let's just write a 2 check," let's talk about ways to -- is there anything? And 3 why -- why are we behind like this? 4 MR. STANTON: The actual number of juveniles that 5 have been detained this past previous year -- this past year 6 is down about 8 percent from what it has been previously. 7 That's the only thing I see. The staffing -- our staffing 8 ratios are the same it's been since we opened the facility. 9 The staffing hasn't changed at all. We haven't added any 10 more staff. We're at bare minimum staff as it is right now. 11 We've gone out and -- and tried to contract with other 12 counties, but we've got contracts with 16 counties that are 13 closest to us that send us their kids. The only way to 14 increase the revenue would be to -- you know, I don't even 15 know if we can go out and contract with counties further 16 away, because it doesn't do any good. Those counties are so 17 far -- you know, we're getting to 100, 150 miles away. I 18 doubt very seriously they're going to transport their kids to 19 us to detain. And, unfortunately, myself and my staff, we 20 can't go out and arrest kids and put them in the facility. 21 We have to -- we have to rely on the probation departments 22 and everybody else to run the kids to us. One thing that we 23 are working on trying to do is -- is there are a few counties 24 that have multiple facilities that they contract with to 25 house kids at. What we tried to do is come to agreements 8-16-11 bwk 78 1 with those counties to assist them in transport situations 2 and that type of thing so that they would bring all their 3 kids to us, and we could assist them in doing transports and 4 different ideas like that. We've already -- we already do 5 transports to doctors and psychologists and those type of 6 things for them. So, we are just -- I mean, we're beating 7 the bushes trying to work with other counties, trying to get, 8 you know, the more -- the most kids that we can in that 9 facility. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we raised our fees to 11 the point to where we're not competitive any more? 12 MR. STANTON: No, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't have anything to do 14 with it? 15 MR. STANTON: In fact, we're probably -- if we 16 really wanted to look, we're probably still one of the lower 17 cost facilities in the state. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kids are just not getting in 19 any trouble any more? 20 MR. STANTON: I wouldn't say that. 21 MS. PIEPER: They're not being caught. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to figure out some other 23 way to deal with it. 24 MR. STANTON: I think probation referral -- their 25 referral rate is -- I could be totally wrong, and Jason's not 8-16-11 bwk 79 1 here, but I think that their referral rate's down almost 15 2 to 20 percent this year. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It is down. 4 MR. STANTON: And ours -- in fact, we were looking 5 at, like, a 70/30 split as far as Kerr County kids compared 6 to out-of-county kids, and that percentage is now about 55 to 7 45. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 9 MR. STANTON: Where we're getting a whole lot more 10 out-of-county kids than we have any time before. So -- and 11 any given time this year, we've had more out-of-county kids 12 in the facility than we had in-county kids. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, does that have 14 anything to do with the -- with the reduction of funding from 15 the State, the probation office? Or has that taken effect 16 yet? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that -- the one you're talking 18 about hasn't taken effect yet. But another figure that was 19 mentioned was budgetary constraints, and I think some of 20 these other counties are -- because of the budgetary 21 constraints, particularly as you get further along in the 22 year, they are more reluctant to detain because of the cost 23 attached to it. That shouldn't be the test, but I think it 24 is on occasion. But the referral rates -- we seem to have 25 peaked in '09. That was the -- that was the real heavy year, 8-16-11 bwk 80 1 and it's kind of settling back since then. Settled back a 2 fair amount last year, and then this year it's settling a 3 little bit more. We're about back to where we were in '08. 4 MR. STANTON: That's what I was going to say. I 5 mean, you know, the previous three years, we -- or the 6 previous two years, we've kind of gone up and we peaked, and 7 now it's kind of going back down, getting level, and it's 8 about back to the level of about '07 -- '06, '07. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: '07, '08, somewhere. 10 MR. STANTON: When I took over. And we're back 11 down to about where we were. You know, if you compare the 12 income compared to itself the last two years, it's about -- 13 about 16 percent lower. But if you go back even before '09, 14 '08, '07, we're about even with where we were before. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're at the same 16 staffing numbers as then? 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. We haven't changed 18 staffing at all. We're at the same exact amount. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, is it possible to go up 20 a couple of bucks a day and kind of counter that? Or not? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now, we're at 95? 22 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And if we went up, it would just be 24 a few bucks, I'm sure. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We might ask Kevin to look at 8-16-11 bwk 81 1 what other facilities -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Make sure we don't get up to 3 where we're shooting ourselves in the foot. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No kidding. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you get a current run at 6 others around, and let's take -- bring it to Juvenile Board. 7 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could make it $99. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You can actually bring that to us 10 on -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Friday. Friday at 11:00, the 19th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's 11 o'clock on Friday. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Board meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 16 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, that's no problem. I can 17 get that for you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see how you -- I 19 mean, that would be helpful. But a $43,000 shortfall, I 20 don't know how you make that up. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the option is to increase that 22 700 there. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that just makes that number 25 bigger. 8-16-11 bwk 82 1 MS. HARGIS: I will say that there was a fund 2 balance in there, and rather than fund them at a -- with tax 3 dollars in prior years, we've cut the amount of tax dollars 4 we gave them, so we basically pulled their fund balance down, 5 and that's part of the problem as well. There was quite a 6 bit of money in there after the switch-over. And then each 7 year, rather than give them tax dollars that we didn't have, 8 we only funded them what they needed. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So part of it was accounting, too, 10 then. 11 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kevin, what's our average daily 14 population out there? 15 MR. STANTON: Right now, this year it's been 11. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11? 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can get rid of $8,000. Two 19 dollars will give us $8,000. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Five dollars would be even 21 better than that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Two and a half times, right? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talked to some friends of mine, 8-16-11 bwk 83 1 and they're very concerned about costs. I was giving them a 2 hard time about why they weren't using our facility. And, 3 you know, just the overall cost of the transport distances 4 and that was more than the -- the -- you know, really, the 5 day rate. It was just the cost to get them here and back. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Transportation. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The transportation of them. I 8 think Kevin mentioned that you kind of got your area that you 9 can draw from, and if they're not putting them into the 10 facility, you're kind of out of luck. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're competing with San Angelo to 12 the north. 13 MR. STANTON: Bell County. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Bell, also to the north and east. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody over by -- near 16 Wharton, one of those counties -- not Wharton, but the one 17 next to Wharton, I think, has a -- 18 MR. STANTON: Well, Fort Bend County. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, there's -- you have a 20 range that you kind of draw from. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, where it's feasible. 22 MR. STANTON: One of the -- I mean, one of the 23 counties, like Uvalde, we go all the way to Uvalde. We get 24 overflow kids from Del Rio. We get -- we -- one of the 25 things that's really helped, like one of the counties we 8-16-11 bwk 84 1 contracted with used Bell County. We've made arrangements 2 for -- if they need us to, we can transport the kids back and 3 forth to the home county once they're there two weeks for 4 detention hearings. So, they've pulled all their kids from 5 Bell County; they're going to start sending them to us if we 6 can coordinate the transports for them. It's going to cost 7 us a little bit to transport the kids back and forth, but 8 we've got the staff available to do it without having to 9 bring anybody else in. It's going to cost us gas, but we're 10 also going to be making the -- as much as $150,000, whatever 11 it is, with those 14 -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And I guess, Jeannie, 13 and also the Judge a little bit -- and you always do this, 14 but are there any of those dedicated funds that we can draw a 15 little bit more or shift anything? Some of them have some 16 pretty good balances, like Law Library. Linda? Linda, is 17 there anything that you can pull out -- we can fund for your 18 office out of the Law Library? I mean, is there anything -- 19 there's a big balance there; I see 114,000. And I'm just 20 wondering, on some of those dedicated funds, like elections, 21 that they want -- 22 MS. UECKER: What I have done, I've told everybody 23 if you need any Law Library books, just bring me the bill, 24 and -- 'cause we're paying everything for all of the offices 25 out of that, even the Sheriff and anybody that needs 8-16-11 bwk 85 1 anything. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this year we'll make a 3 pretty large order with her, because all the Penal Codes and 4 Code of Criminal Procedures that all the officers need have 5 changed. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just remind us about those. I 7 know the -- for the Tax Assessor or elections, there's a 8 $6,000 part-time. Can that come out of election services? 9 MS. BOLIN: No, 'cause it's for a different 10 department. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You wanted part-time help for the 13 elections? 14 MS. BOLIN: No, the part-time help is for the 15 regular tax office. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I thought 17 part-time help was for the elections. 18 MS. UECKER: I guess you could pay my salary out of 19 that Law Library. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We're already paying you something 21 out of that. 22 MS. UECKER: No, I mean the whole -- the whole 23 thing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shoot, there's not enough 25 there. 8-16-11 bwk 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it would be kind of iffy, 2 I think. I mean -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's don't -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to think out of the box, 5 but let's not go that far, maybe. 6 MS. HARGIS: Linda's very good about letting -- if 7 we do buy books during the year, she's very good about 8 letting us charge them to there. So, most of the time, if 9 you're going to have a book that needs to be in your office, 10 some kind of regulation or something, she's been very good 11 about letting all of the departments purchase those through 12 there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some H.R. books that -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- are probably going to be needed 16 to transfer -- 17 MS. UECKER: We're getting those for H.R. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Diane? 19 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, in your elections budget, 21 is there any of that budget that can be transferred to 22 election services that we're paying out of this fund? 23 MS. BOLIN: No, the election services is something 24 totally different. That's the money that we get for 25 contracting for elections. 8-16-11 bwk 87 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What can you spend that money on? 3 MS. BOLIN: We can use the -- we have used it for 4 education. We have used it for -- we bought the little poll 5 books that we use at the election -- at the polling precincts 6 now, and the bags that they go in. We purchased them out of 7 that. It's just discretionary. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, anything -- anyone who's 9 got access to a dedicated fund, just -- I mean, we're 10 carrying -- you know, at the beginning of the year, we had 11 $426,000 accumulated in all those dedicated funds. We ended 12 the year with 415, so we're spending, you know, a little bit 13 out of it, but there's still a pretty big balance. It's just 14 a good way to fund things. 15 MS. BOLIN: I have strict instructions from Nadene 16 to keep my hands off Fund 12 for the next couple of years. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. She has something 19 she needs, right? 20 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 21 MS. UECKER: Why are we carrying a balance in 22 alternative dispute resolution? 23 MS. HARGIS: That goes to that -- 24 MR. HENNEKE: That A.D.R.C. 25 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I'm still on the board, but I'm 8-16-11 bwk 88 1 wondering why that hasn't all been turned over to them. 2 MS. HARGIS: Because they -- we budget so much a 3 year that comes in, the current money. 4 MS. UECKER: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: Not the whole thing. 6 MS. UECKER: So, we still carry a $23,000 -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, I don't know. We'll have it. 8 Those are estimates. 9 MS. UECKER: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: All of these are estimates. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we run the gamut, gentlemen, 14 for today? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think so. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any gaps to fill 18 in? 19 MS. HARGIS: Are we going to talk about any of the 20 people that have asked for additional steps for their people? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: She's going to give us -- have us a 22 list tomorrow. 23 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So that we can look at that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing I would 8-16-11 bwk 89 1 like for tomorrow -- I believe someone has it -- the elected 2 officials that have openings that are unfilled because of the 3 hiring freeze, if we can just look at those and see if those 4 need to -- you know, kind of, one, where they are, and then 5 two, if those affected can look at it and say do they -- can 6 they eliminate that position, or do we really need to hold it 7 in there and not fill it for a while? Kind of just to look 8 at that. Because if we can -- like, Rusty gave up two 9 permanently out of the budget; that's a big help. And -- but 10 if we need to hold them, let's hold them open. 11 MS. WHITT: Yeah. I brought some -- I talked to 12 Bruce about this -- our call records, to show that I just -- 13 we're barely making it. I mean, I'm having to work -- myself 14 and another officer have been working till 6:00, 7 o'clock 15 just about every day for the last three weeks. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to hear that, too. 17 But, you know, we can hear that tomorrow. We can go through 18 them and -- but, definitely, if there's -- you know, like in 19 that situation, we don't want to eliminate that slot; we need 20 to hold it in the budget, whether it's filled right now or 21 not. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? We're adjourned. 23 (Budget workshop was adjourned at 3:05 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 8-16-11 bwk 90 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of August, 8 2011. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-16-11 bwk