1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, August 17, 2011 11 1:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 17, 2011 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2011-12 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, including, but not limited to, employee health care benefits, step and grade, and staffing 5 levels, and also including discussion with Kerr County financial advisor with regards to various 6 county financial matters 3 7 Adjourned 80 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, August 17, 2011, at 1:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come to order for our 8 workshop -- Commissioners Court workshop posted and scheduled 9 for today, Wednesday, August 17th, 2011, at 1 p.m. It is 10 that time now. The agenda item on today's workshop is to 11 review and discuss fiscal year 2011-12 budgets, and fiscal 12 capital expenditure and personnel matters related thereto, 13 including, but not limited to, employee health care benefits, 14 step and grade, and staffing levels, and also including 15 discussion with Kerr County financial adviser with regard to 16 various county financial matters. Let me first kind of give 17 an update of where we are on the health care benefits. This 18 morning, late, we got the entire package from -- from TAC. 19 I've been in contact with Mr. Looney on two different 20 occasions this morning, and they are going to be forwarding 21 him an electronic copy so he will have that available to him. 22 The suggestion was that maybe we could have us a workshop 23 next Tuesday. How does that sound, gentlemen? Afternoon? I 24 know we've got the pending thing for in the morning. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just booked something Tuesday 8-17-11 bwk 4 1 night -- I don't know what I did. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday night? This will be Tuesday 3 afternoon, just about this same time. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- that works. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Works for me. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of what we're looking 8 at, is to firm it up for that time. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 23rd. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. So that's where we are on 11 that. We do have our financial adviser with us today, Mr. 12 Bob Henderson. RBC Capital, I believe it's called. 13 MR. HENDERSON: RBC Capital Markets this week. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. I forgot to check; I 15 apologize. And I think there was some matters that he wanted 16 to bring to our attention, so we'll lay it on you for now. 17 MR. HENDERSON: Well, you're catching me slightly 18 unawares, Judge. The County Auditor had asked me to come in 19 and be available to answer questions on about three different 20 topics, so I was going to be prepared to answer questions. 21 If -- if you wanted to hear a presentation, I can -- I can 22 certainly ad lib one. I'm not afraid to talk. I think the 23 biggest issue that -- that's been of topic lately is the 24 potential ag facility financing out there, and the various 25 alternatives to do that. I know the Commissioners Court has 8-17-11 bwk 5 1 taken up the issue of voting a venue project, approval of the 2 voters, and also there's the opportunity for the County to 3 create a special district out in the unincorporated areas to 4 collect a sales tax, up to a half-cent sales tax to fund 5 special type projects. 6 I have met with the Judge and Jeannie and 7 Commissioner Overby to discuss what the Comptroller's offices 8 are projecting the revenues from those two potential sources 9 to be. We talked at length about the process of issuing 10 them, how those types of project revenue bonds and sales tax 11 revenue bonds vary from the traditional ad valorem property 12 tax instruments that the County has issued in the past, and 13 why, because they are, in fact, revenue bonds, they would not 14 be able to support quite as much debt as this same revenue 15 stream might support in the event that we had an ad valorem 16 property tax issue. I think Commissioner Overby is better 17 qualified than I to talk about the overall project, which is, 18 I think, $13.8 million, set up in two phases -- or actually 19 three phases, the first couple of phases being $6.9 million, 20 and then the final phase being 6.9 million. 21 As I was discussing with the group I mentioned -- 22 the Judge, the Auditor, and Commissioner -- the potential 23 financing alternatives for that, we also talked about the 24 fact that you've got this jail that we have, for the past 25 eight or ten years, every time we've done a new debt 8-17-11 bwk 6 1 transaction for the County, we structured that debt in such a 2 way that we were anticipating the need in 2013, 2014 to issue 3 debt for the jail. You know that in the past handful of 4 years, we have gone out and issued tax notes to finance 5 capital improvement items. We've kept the maturity structure 6 on those tax notes very short in order to take advantage of 7 the opportunities that -- that you have to take advantage of, 8 given, quite frankly, the over-65 freeze impact on the 9 County's budget. I think everybody is aware that about 40 10 percent of your tax base is frozen because of the over-65 11 freeze. So, we've taken the jail financing and the structure 12 on those tax notes into consideration, along with the growth 13 in the tax base, the lack of growth that we've seen in the 14 last couple of years, and the impact of the over-65 freeze. 15 So, that kind of -- yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the jail issue, if the jail 17 was issue was deferred two or three years -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ten years. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years, that would mean 22 that we would start -- we would almost, within four years, 23 probably be almost debt free. 24 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir, approximately four years. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- and I think that's 8-17-11 bwk 7 1 probably -- from a rollback and all that calculation, we 2 probably want to keep some debt in our portfolio -- that's 3 probably not the right word, but keep some debt on the books. 4 And not necessarily right now, but could you come up with a 5 plan as to, you know, how we could do some other tax 6 anticipation notes or things like that to keep some debt, do 7 kind of what we've been doing? 8 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of looking out, if the 10 jail gets pushed further into the future, 'cause right now I 11 don't know -- they mentioned that we're looking at some 12 minimum security options that are a lot less expensive. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much time that's going to 15 buy, who knows? But -- 16 MR. HENDERSON: Well, let me make some general 17 comments to that. Certainly, we need to continue to manage 18 the structure of your short-term borrowing in such a way that 19 we can maximize the revenue streams available to the County. 20 One of the things that I talk about when I teach -- when I 21 teach public finance at Texas State University is that in a 22 perfect world, we wouldn't have a lot of rules and 23 regulations and -- and global and national political and tax 24 issues that would interfere with making what would seem to be 25 straightforward rational decisions. In other words, 8-17-11 bwk 8 1 particularly when I talk about the yield curve, the yield 2 curve would be a perfect 45-degree angle if it weren't for 3 all these other considerations. Kerr County has got a big 4 consideration in that with respect to the impact of the 5 over-65 freeze on your tax base. 6 Consequently, when counties -- and I talked about 7 this just before the Judge, I think, went to go on a little 8 road trip to look at a minimum security facility that you 9 were considering. Historically, when counties have looked at 10 doing jail facilities, there are two types of jail facilities 11 that you look at. And I look around -- there's Rusty. He 12 can vouch for this, I'm sure. You have a jail facility that 13 can be very minimal in terms of capital outlay; in other 14 words, how much money you actually spend on bricks and mortar 15 building your jail. But when you get a jail that is minimal 16 capital outlay, they tend to be labor-intensive, because 17 you've got to have more jailers, more guards, because of 18 line-of-sight visions and those types of things. On the 19 other end of the spectrum, you can build a jail that's more 20 capital intensive. You spend more money building this jail. 21 You've got line-of-vision systems, you've got door systems, 22 you've got camera systems. You've spent more money on the 23 jail, but because you spent more money on the jail, they're 24 less labor-intensive. You can staff them with fewer people. 25 Because of the situation that Kerr County has with 8-17-11 bwk 9 1 respect to, again, the over-65 freeze, the push-and-pull 2 pressures between the maintenance and operations or your 3 general fund side of your tax rate, versus the interest and 4 sinking fund side of your tax rate, which funds capital 5 improvements, you are in a situation where it is actually 6 better for the County to spend more money on the capital side 7 than it is to spend less money on the capital side, because 8 you've got more room on your I & S tax rate. Which is where 9 you're getting to, Commissioner; that you need to keep that 10 tax -- that portion of your tax rate stable. Then you 11 have -- on the M & O side, if you build a low capital 12 issue -- low capital outlay jail, and you have to hire extra 13 staff -- and one staff position really turns into four, 14 right? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Five. 16 MR. HENDERSON: Five when you consider an 17 eight-hour day and weekends and vacations and all that. So, 18 one -- one full-time position on the jail turns into five 19 full-time positions on the jail. And if we can spend a 20 little extra money reducing that one -- that one position, it 21 provides you substantial relief on that maintenance and 22 operation side of your tax rate. I know it's a long-winded 23 answer to your question, but it is important that when you 24 consider the jail, whether it happens in 2013-2014 or whether 25 it gets postponed three or four years because of a minimum 8-17-11 bwk 10 1 security operation that you may be able to put into place, 2 you know, either way we need to be thinking in terms of a 3 physical building that allows you to minimize your staffing 4 requirements. Does that make sense? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. HENDERSON: And then with respect to the tax 8 notes, whether you're doing short-term capital outlay -- and 9 what I mean by that is, say, a computer system that might 10 have a useful life of two years, versus a county sheriff's 11 deputy car that might have a useful life of three or four 12 years, or a county road equipment that might have a useful 13 life of eight or ten years. Irrespective of the useful life 14 of those outlays, we do need to maintain that I & S tax rate 15 stable, which means maybe financing them shorter than normal. 16 Of course, that's great for the citizens in that the interest 17 rate on your debt is a lot less. If you're -- if you're 18 buying, say, a piece of road equipment that has a useful life 19 of eight or ten years, but you're paying it off in three 20 years, you've saved the citizens of Kerr County a lot of 21 money, as well as maintained the stability of that I & S tax 22 rate. So, we need to look at all of those things. 23 You know, again, government -- local county 24 government of Kerr excluded, of course -- you know, has a way 25 of interfering with business decisions. The classic example 8-17-11 bwk 11 1 of that is Robin Hood school finance. We've got school 2 districts out there that, because of Robin Hood, have to 3 spend upwards of three dollars of local tax money to the 4 state for every one dollar they get to keep and spend. 5 Because of that, you're seeing school districts that are 6 outvoting bonds to buy school books and to buy buses and to 7 buy desks that you would normally pay for out of the M & O 8 operations, but it saves the school district considerable 9 local tax money to vote those and pay for those on the I & S 10 side of your tax base than on the M & O side. And that's 11 exactly the same situation that Kerr County finds itself in 12 because of the over-65 freeze impact on your tax base. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you're monitoring that on a 14 regular basis, right? 15 MR. HENDERSON: Oh, Jeannie and I talk every week. 16 Sometimes I just listen, believe it or not. (Laughter.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I can believe that. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Love you, darling. 19 MS. HARGIS: I know. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: As we -- 21 MS. HENDERSON: Are there any questions on the 22 venue tax project or the special district tax aspects? I 23 went over it with the Judge and Jeannie and Commissioner last 24 week. Obviously, I think you know that the revenue streams 25 from those two sources, should the County decide to go out 8-17-11 bwk 12 1 and vote them, are not going to be sufficient to -- to raise 2 the $6.9 million that you need for Phases 1 and 2. In the 3 event that the Commissioners Court decides they do want to 4 move forward with those phases, it may be advantageous, in 5 terms of the ability to postpone the jail for three or four 6 years, to go ahead and finance some of that out of ad valorem 7 property taxes to aid in the stability of that I & S tax 8 rate. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much debt could each of 10 those -- the sales tax type increase this fund? 11 MR. HENDERSON: Approximately 2.5 or 2.7 million. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Combined? 13 MR. HENDERSON: No, per source. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Per source. 15 MR. HENDERSON: Per source. So, we could probably 16 -- I think the number we came up with was 5.4 million. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think that's correct. 18 MR. HENDERSON: And so we were about $1.5 million 19 short of having enough to -- to fund the whole 6.9 million. 20 So, that 1.5 million delta that we would need to fund Phases 21 1 and 2, I think the Commissioners Court, once we've gone 22 through your budget process and examined what your needs are 23 for your other capital outlay that we might consider doing 24 tax notes with, you may want to consider doing that last 1.5 25 million with an ad valorem tax-secured debt, because it will 8-17-11 bwk 13 1 aid you in maintaining the stability of that interest and 2 sinking fund rate. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What would the length of that 4 debt be? 5 MS. HENDERSON: As short as we can get it. But 6 then we're going to have to sit down with Rusty again to talk 7 about the minimum -- the minimum security facility and when 8 his big jail is going to come, 'cause every deal we've done 9 for the last three or four years, or four or five years, six 10 years, has been really based on when Rusty thought he 11 absolutely was going to have to have that jail. And, of 12 course, it's always been a moving target. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it's on the agenda for the 14 next court. But I really think, looking at it, if we move 15 forward and with Peter Lewis' help on the design of the 16 minimum security facilities, and with the way -- thank 17 goodness, the way the current jail was built with back exits, 18 we can probably do the two 48-bed minimum security units, and 19 as far as employees, not cost us any more additional 20 employees than adding on to the maximum security jail would 21 cost. So I think, efficiently, we can do it at the same -- 22 and guessing what minimums that we normally run, the number 23 of minimum inmates, I would really want the Jail Commission 24 to come in and help do an analysis of it on staffing and 25 inmates, but I personally feel that two minimum security 8-17-11 bwk 14 1 units back there with that type of normal staffing to go into 2 them, I think could last us a minimum of 10, maybe 15 years. 3 MS. HENDERSON: That's a good report from my 4 perspective. That's a good report. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're all listening, and it's 6 on the record. (Laughter.) 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like I said, I want the Jail 8 Commission to come in, but with where we've gone over the 9 last -- ever since the facility was built, and with the 10 trends and where it's been moving, I feel comfortable in 11 saying that. But I want to also back it up with their 12 analysis. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 14 building the kind that we went and looked at? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, two of those. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One for males, one for 18 females. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did we get to two? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One is for males, one for 21 females. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Female's been the big 23 conversation, and suddenly it's males. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the problem is, if we're 25 going to make it last that long, Buster, the thing is, the 8-17-11 bwk 15 1 current jail is a good maximum security jail, but we've got 2 probably 50 minimum security male inmates in there now. And 3 if you could empty, you know, 48 beds out of that maximum 4 security facility into a minimum security facility, you've 5 just increased the lifespan of that maximum -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't you just move those 7 employees out from the minimum security? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, because you're still -- 9 your growth is growing. That's the only issue. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, Rusty, you said you were 11 going to move them out. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I am, but you know what's 13 going to happen as soon as I do. There's going to be other 14 ones moving in. I really think -- and I need to get -- be 15 able to get with Peter Lewis or an architect for the design, 16 because we'd have to put safety vestibules out those back 17 doors to where we could actually just run food carts to that 18 door and let the minimum security inmates come out of that 19 minimum deal to that door to get their food. 'Cause those 20 are -- there's just bar doors and all that on them. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What's the cost, Rusty, of 22 one of those units? What's the minimum? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When they built that in 24 Bastrop in 2004 -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Turnkey, 150. 8-17-11 bwk 16 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, turnkey. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: For 48 beds. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Wow. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, you know, nowadays I 5 don't -- we'd have to add some different fencing, relay 6 fencing and some cement and site work, but it's built on pier 7 and beam, and if you were thinking way outside the box and 8 built it -- you know, build the safety vestibules and all, I 9 still think you could get both of those units built for under 10 a million. 11 MS. HENDERSON: If he could build units for under a 12 million and put off an 8 or a 10 million jail even for five 13 or six years, let alone 10, 12 that the Sheriff's talking 14 about, that's smart money. That's the smart way to do it. 15 Now, you still have pressure on your M & O budget, because 16 you're going to have to have some additional staffing. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You'd have to add a minimum -- 18 depending on how we could design it, it's going to go 19 anywhere from 10 to 20 employees total. One per unit would 20 be 10; two per unit would be 20, just depending on how we can 21 design it and how many cameras and that we add to it. But I 22 know Bastrop's running theirs with -- with one in there. 23 That's 10 employees, okay, five in each one. And you can 24 hold off on that, not add 10 employees all at once. As you 25 start filling and getting that population, you know, and 8-17-11 bwk 17 1 having to use it for the males and everything, then you're 2 going to add -- you're going to have to add employees. 3 MS. HENDERSON: In the short-term, you could lease 4 out some beds to your neighbors, right? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did it when I first took 6 office, and yes, you could probably do that and come close 7 to, by the time you couldn't do it again, paying for a lot of 8 it. The only issues you have there is, Fredericksburg is in 9 their planning stage now. They are probably going to go 10 ahead with building a jail over there. Bandera just built 11 one. So, as far as counties that are needing it that I 12 wouldn't mind helping out, you're still looking at Kimble, 13 Mason, Menard. Those counties have -- you know, are 14 constantly asking us. 15 MS. HENDERSON: Rusty's going to vote theirs. And 16 they've done that before without any success. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They don't have it to be able 18 to build a million dollar facility, so I think we could make 19 some of it back by housing those -- those counties' overflow. 20 You know, Junction, they can't really hold females at all. 21 It's hurting them. So, I think we can come out. 22 MR. HENDERSON: So, to go back to your question, 23 Commissioner, how long would the financing be, you're on the 24 -- you're on the good end of the spectrum. Our -- our goal 25 would be to pay this off as fast as possible. You're going 8-17-11 bwk 18 1 to be looking at a minimum security facility, which is going 2 to involve some debt. Useful life of this ag facility has 3 got to be 25 years at least. We are going to be looking at 4 financing this substantially shorter than that; you know, 5 five to eight, maybe ten years, trying to pay this stuff off. 6 'Cause our goal is to not only save the taxpayers money in 7 terms of interest rate, but to maintain the stability of that 8 I & S tax rate. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long -- just take up the 10 -- what if we would issue $3,000 worth of debt -- $3 million 11 worth of debt? How long would it take us to pay that off 12 starting, say, six months from now? 13 MR. HENDERSON: I would have to look at the most 14 recent certified rolls and most recent impact of the -- of 15 the over-65 freeze. My -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about with the 17 mileage that's coming from paying off these other -- '08 pays 18 off in what year? The one we issued in '08? 19 MR. HENDERSON: 2012. 20 MS. HARGIS: 2012. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be '13 or '14. 22 MS. HARGIS: '13. It pays off in '13. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: '13 it pays off. And then 24 the '10 pays off in '16? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8-17-11 bwk 19 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 2 MR. HENDERSON: I'm guessing by '18 -- because it's 3 feathering down. I'm guessing by 2018, 2019, we'd pay off 4 $3 million. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the current jail pays off 6 in -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Next year. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some of that money's already 9 designated to pay off -- 10 MS. HARGIS: It's switching. 11 MR. HENDERSON: Right, I feathered it into the new 12 debt. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it's already in there. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It won't just, you know, free 15 up if we paid it off, 'cause we're using it for something 16 else. Just curious. 17 MR. HENDERSON: I would say -- we're at 2011 now, 18 2012. I'd say five or six years, or less. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That gives me a -- 20 MR. HENDERSON: But I will run those numbers, 21 Commissioner, and get you a more definitive answer. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, run it -- I mean, you 23 know, we don't want to overextend ourselves, but we also have 24 to continue to do, you know, some of these capital projects 25 and things, and I don't see a better way to do it than to do 8-17-11 bwk 20 1 it the way we've been doing it. 2 MR. HENDERSON: To the extent possible, any capital 3 outlay that the County has needs to be funded through tax 4 notes or certificates of obligation rather than through the 5 M & O rate, because your M & O revenues are declining every 6 year. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We've been down that road. 9 Taking M & O money to pay for capital that you don't even 10 know what it's going to be from year to year is a nightmare. 11 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Henderson 13 at this point? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one. We have on our 15 capital -- $400,000 in capital requests this year. 16 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it make sense to -- I 18 mean, what do we do with that? Do we defer it? 19 MR. HENDERSON: We need to fund that through tax 20 anticipation note, as -- as the County has done several times 21 in the past three or four years. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just do another one, and 23 schedule it so it keeps our -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Stable. 25 MR. HENDERSON: Now, the other issue -- and I'm 8-17-11 bwk 21 1 kind of switching horses before I give up -- you know, give 2 up my podium, Judge. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. HENDERSON: Is -- is Jeannie had asked about -- 5 I know there's some ongoing discussions between the County 6 and the City with respect to fire protection, and there was 7 some questions raised about the possibility of an emergency 8 services district. Do we want to talk about that, or do we 9 want to save that for another day? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think probably Commissioner 11 Baldwin would like to hear more about that today, wouldn't 12 you? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd love to hear more 14 about it. I -- I have a concern about us -- about our 15 emergency service district issue bumping into some of these 16 new tax issues, as far as the public voting -- 17 MR. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on them. You know, 19 there's no way we can ask the public to vote on two or three 20 of those things -- 21 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- at the same time. I 23 mean, that's not -- that's not anything you'd be concerned 24 about, I don't think, but I'm concerned about it. If we -- 25 if we start putting off these -- the tax issues for the Ag 8-17-11 bwk 22 1 Barn, and putting them off to start voting -- instead of this 2 year, vote for them next year, we're going to have a head-on 3 collision with me. 4 MR. HENDERSON: It's a lot for the public to have 5 to digest. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's too much. 7 MR. HENDERSON: I think -- you know, the main 8 reason that I think -- Jeannie can correct me if I'm wrong, 9 but I think the main reason the whole idea of the emergency 10 services district came up, though, is part and parcel to the 11 other things we've been talking about, and that is pressure 12 on your M & O tax rate. We've got -- we've got the City 13 looking -- and I -- I make no assertations -- I don't know 14 what the deal is between the City and the County. I just 15 know that I understand the City is asking for additional 16 moneys. That's got to come out of your M & O tax rate. 17 You're up against a wall on the M & O tax rate. What 18 alternatives do you have to take that off the M & O tax rate? 19 The alternative would be to create an emergency services 20 district. Or, you know, obviously, raise county M & O tax 21 rates. Which I know, again, this County's been very cautious 22 about being stable with this total tax rate, on both the 23 M & O side and the I & S side. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, did you -- I 25 missed that; I was looking at some other things here. The 8-17-11 bwk 23 1 first part of your statement was your comment that we have to 2 be careful about putting an ESD issue out shortly after -- or 3 at the same time we're talking about a sales tax? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. We were talking 5 about doing the sales tax and that stuff what, this November? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can't -- we really 9 can't get the ESD thing off the table that quick anyway, so 10 I'm looking at 2011 -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 2012. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, 2012 to do the ESD. 13 And Commissioner Overby has hinted at me that he may postpone 14 the taxing things till next year, too. And we're going to 15 have -- we're going to have a collision with that. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- I mean, the concern is 17 having too much on at once? Or having -- going back to the 18 well too many times? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of the above. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I think the -- the 21 thing about the venue tax situation is -- is because the 22 process, you know, of, again, dealing with interlocals pushed 23 it back so far this year, and again, we tried to adjust 24 earlier than we could -- you know, we had to deal with that 25 with the venue tax discussion. And, Rob, you've done a great 8-17-11 bwk 24 1 job of getting everything there and getting everything where 2 we have it. I've had some concerns in the current community 3 that would like to express us going out and still developing 4 a little bit more support from organizations in the community 5 to support the venue tax; that potentially, instead of -- 6 possibly instead of going forward this year for the venue 7 tax, actually reach out to other organizations in the 8 community to look at the functionality of the facility, so 9 that we actually can go -- I've had stock show folks mention 10 to me about needing to go and visit one of the facilities in 11 San Antonio, like the Morris Activity Center down in San 12 Antonio, the San Angelo facility, and to encourage 13 representatives from within the community to go look at these 14 facilities. That's one component of the ag participation. 15 I'm trying to move that project forward. 16 The other part is organizing a financing steering 17 committee. And the reality of it is, with the timeline that 18 we've had to do with trying to get underneath the state, who 19 sent us a letter back that basically has said that, you know, 20 there was no impact negatively on the state as far as impact 21 with the venue for this tax consideration, the problem is 22 right now, here we are in late August. We meet underneath 23 those guidelines, but the issue is, early voting starts 24 mid-October. And trying to get a venue tax steering 25 committee put together, trying to help get the private 8-17-11 bwk 25 1 support out there -- because there has been a lot of people 2 saying the need -- we all know the need's there, but having 3 the private sector be a big part of that, if we would 4 postpone that possibly until next year to give us more time 5 to do that, that's something to give some consideration on. 6 And I think that's where Commissioner Baldwin -- I agree, the 7 ESD is something that is a high priority as well. Both of 8 those are very important things, and the concern about those 9 vamping up against each other as we try to go down the road. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the venue tax and the 11 special district tax are -- I mean, same thought really about 12 both of those. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, are you talking about 14 the county assistance -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The special -- yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I don't know if it's 18 better to do it two or three consecutive years, or do it all 19 at one time. I'm not sure which one has the better success. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The half-cent sales tax out 21 in the county, -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- that could go this year 24 still for the November -- 25 MR. HENNEKE: It is on the November. 8-17-11 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, by the same token, 3 if we're -- if we don't get community support for that, I 4 mean, that -- it's going to fail. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, yeah. And the ag 6 facility, we all know it has to get done. I mean, it's -- it 7 has to happen. I mean, we've got -- we've got parents; we've 8 got kids. The community knows it. I think just right now, 9 just -- really, instead of going forward with it right now, 10 what's the advantage of holding it back and reaching out to 11 the community and saying, "Folks, we got to come together and 12 get this done, and let's move it forward." And let the 13 private sector out there know in the community, "Guys, we 14 need your help, need your support." And try to take it 15 forward that way. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess I'm -- what I'm 17 hearing over here and hearing here is to delay both of them, 18 the venue and the special tax, the half-cent? Or just delay 19 the venue tax? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Special tax is already -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Special tax is called. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- noticed for the November, isn't 23 it? 24 MR. HENNEKE: This Court has called for it to be on 25 the ballot. 8-17-11 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it can always be pulled 2 off, I would suspect. That's where my question is. I mean, 3 are we -- is that being rushed as well? 'Cause I think my 4 feeling is that if we just put a -- if we don't have a pretty 5 good -- you know, a steering committee to promote it, it's 6 not going to pass. 'Cause who's going to go and, you know, 7 for no reason, vote for a tax increase? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The venue tax needs time to 9 have a financing committee, put a public relations committee 10 together and to get out and advertise it and promote it. And 11 the reality of it is, between the time we get that organized, 12 and with mid-October as far as early voting, the time's not 13 -- just not enough time to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with the venue. I'm 15 just concerned about the other one. I don't see how that's 16 any different. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you ought to leave 18 it on there. It's going to be a good measuring stick to tell 19 you what you can do with those kinds of things from this 20 point on. I predict, you know, the public's going to run us 21 out of town for even talking about it. Whereas the ESD issue 22 is a solution to a long-term issue with our brethren across 23 the Rhine -- or down the street. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The ESD thing is a higher 8-17-11 bwk 28 1 priority to me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, I agree. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the special assistance, the 4 one-cent sales tax is a little more straightforward. You 5 know, people understand sales tax. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure they do. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And a lot of the educational aspect 8 of a venue tax is going to be that it's not a general sales 9 tax. It's not a general assessment tax on the local 10 citizens. It's applied on the -- it's in addition to the 11 already existing hotel tax that comes essentially from 12 out-of-county visitors to this community. And a lot of folks 13 don't understand that. That'll have to be part of the 14 educational process, and I think it will have to be a big 15 part of it. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And, again, I say this. If 17 the private sector -- and these groups are saying that they 18 would step up when they know there's a need. I think that -- 19 you know, the finance committee, if it's organized and we see 20 that folks step up and understand that there's a need in the 21 community to move it and get it done that way, they may not 22 recommend a venue tax the following year. You know, maybe 23 that's wishful thinking. But, you know, if we have -- if we 24 have businesses and groups that set up and support it, they 25 know there's a need to get this done for our programs here, 8-17-11 bwk 29 1 maybe the venue tax is -- you know, maybe they don't -- 2 they'll know exactly how much they need to have out of a 3 venue tax. A venue tax is going to bring about 42 percent of 4 that total funding for that project. And that 6.9 can come 5 down a whole lot more. I think we have it out there -- 6 that's got -- that's got everything in it. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It could come down a lot if 9 we don't put a roof over the outdoor arena. Right now, 10 that's taken out. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to focus on getting 12 that -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That would bring that down 14 considerably. So, that's a target out there. But I think 15 we -- we -- that's for discussion. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm just -- I don't 17 understand the point of putting the special district tax on 18 the -- on the -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ballot this year. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- ballot just so people vote 21 it down. I mean, I don't -- if we don't have a reason to do 22 it that we can really articulate to the public, why do it? 23 Other than it gives you relief off our -- off property tax. 24 And maybe that's enough. But it seems there has to be some 25 sort of an effort to campaign to get it to pass. Otherwise, 8-17-11 bwk 30 1 I don't see that it would pass. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I wouldn't argue with you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As we -- as we get to various 4 issues that Mr. Henderson can give us some guidance on, why, 5 we'll call upon him. One of the things that was mentioned 6 yesterday dealt with our First Responders, if you'll recall, 7 and I mentioned at that time that -- that I had Ms. Lavender 8 looking at some possible grant-funded aspects of getting that 9 -- all that high-end equipment and getting them all equipped, 10 up to date. What I will tell you is that Ms. Lavender has 11 been digging in the archives of grant availability, and I 12 think she's got something to tell us about at this point. 13 MS. LAVENDER: Thanks for your comments yesterday. 14 I'll just give you that. That's the highlights so you can 15 have it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see, I think we need 17 one more. 18 MS. LAVENDER: Do we? Okay, I can't count. I 19 thought I gave him four. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 21 MS. LAVENDER: Oops, that's my original. Yesterday 22 I looked on Grants.gov, which is one of those web sites that 23 you look for grants, and there just happens to be a Homeland 24 Security FEMA grant that the grant window opened on the 8th 25 of August and closes on the 9th of September, so we're, like, 8-17-11 bwk 31 1 right in the middle of it; we're nine days into it. But I 2 ran it off, and I haven't read the whole -- every golden word 3 out of it, but this is the grant application and the 4 information on it. And what happened, they evidently -- when 5 they sent out the Homeland Security grant request for 6 proposals this year, they didn't have fire departments 7 involved in it, and so they've restructured the grant program 8 slightly. And the project period is 12 months, but the 9 applicant must be a fire department. And I typed for you in 10 the little deals there exactly what's in this grant document 11 about eligible applicants. And I knew you would ask me what 12 a non-affiliated EMS organization was. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is one? 14 MS. LAVENDER: So I put it right there for your 15 information. It's a -- it's defined as a public or private 16 nonprofit emergency medical services organization providing 17 direct emergency medical services, including medical 18 transport, to a specific geographic area on a first-due 19 basis, but is not affiliated with a hospital and does not 20 serve a geographic area where there's already an ambulance 21 service serving it. So, I was one step ahead of you on 22 that. Right now in the fund -- and this is the entire 23 United States, and also includes Guam and the Virgin Islands 24 and all of the territories of the United States -- there's 25 $404 million. So, I thought if, you know, we asked for 8-17-11 bwk 32 1 $404 million, I mean, we -- but the thing that caught my eye 2 with it is that it is a high priority for First Responder 3 programs. And based on the Kerr County population, we can 4 get a grant that had a 90/10 funding. And the -- and, of 5 course, the County can't apply, but the City can. And since 6 the City runs our First Responder program, or provides 7 training and the person that does it -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's under that Kerrville fire/EMS. 9 MS. LAVENDER: Right, under our contract. Then -- 10 and I ran off a little deal in there exactly what eligible 11 equipment we could get for this grant. One of them was the 12 automatic external defibrillators, the AED units we were 13 talking about. Also, communications equipment, which is 14 going to be on our laundry list from Eric. And the training 15 on the AED equipment can all -- all of that could be included 16 in our grant. So, what I need today, because of this tiny 17 little window that we have here, is not a motion, not a -- 18 you know, we don't vote on the deal, but just a grin and a 19 head-shake that I can talk with Chief Ojeda and Eric Maloney 20 about this as quick as I can to see if they would be 21 interested in applying for it. And my suggestion would be 22 that the County say if we get the grant, that we will provide 23 the 10 percent match, because it's going to be for the First 24 Responders that serve the county. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could we put that on Monday's 8-17-11 bwk 33 1 meeting? 2 MS. LAVENDER: Yes, I'm going to put it on Monday's 3 meeting, and I'm going to try to get it on the City Council 4 meeting for next Tuesday also. If that's -- if you shake 5 your head yes, then -- I think this is kind of like that SECO 6 grant money; if you don't apply for it, you don't get it. 7 And this may be -- since it's such a tiny little window here, 8 it might be that we could jump in there and get something. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There may be some things that the 10 City wants to include. 11 MS. LAVENDER: Right, but we may not want to bog it 12 down. I think we need to -- to target what we need for the 13 First Responder program. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How much is a defibrillator? 15 MS. LAVENDER: They're $1,400. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: $1,400 each? 17 MS. LAVENDER: I believe that's -- yeah. Ballpark 18 figure, $1,400, $1,500. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You open the door for the 21 City, and they'll want to pave some streets or something. 22 This is excellent. Excellent. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: My -- the only thing -- I mentioned 24 that the City may want something as to if they want to 25 include something else that may be eligible here. 8-17-11 bwk 34 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever portion of the grant that 3 would be theirs, why, we'd share our portion of the 10 4 percent match; they'd share their portion. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the only fair way to 7 do it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or they could pay all the 10 9 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We talked yesterday about 11 several organizations that need the defibrillators. 12 MS. LAVENDER: All I need is just a -- to go 13 forward, kind of -- yeah, good. Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin, maybe 15 you'll get your ambulance here. Or fire truck. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The other thing that we had 17 working from yesterday was we had some -- if you want to call 18 it merit requests, for lack of a better term. I think 19 Commissioner Letz wanted to look at those. Looks like more 20 than six or eight that I talked about yesterday. We got some 21 others that are included in here that -- 22 MS. MABRY: Yes. The -- only the yellow ones, the 23 yellow color are the only merit increases. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. MABRY: The others are regarding certifications 8-17-11 bwk 35 1 and promotions and increases in responsibility. So, 2 they're -- these are all the requests that I've been able to 3 identify, and they're just -- you know, they're all together. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Help me 5 understand here now. The very first one, there's a deputy 6 clerk -- okay, so that's out of the 403, and the second one 7 is a deputy clerk out of the 450. Okay. Is that something 8 I'm supposed to know? Or does it matter? 9 MS. MABRY: Well, the 403's the County Clerk, and 10 the 450 is the District Clerk. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. MABRY: The one that's in 450 is not a specific 13 individual, but something that's requested to have in case 14 she would like to give a merit increase. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Speak up, please. 16 MS. MABRY: I'm sorry. The 750 that's listed in 17 Line Item 450 for the deputy clerks is not a specific 18 individual. It is for a contingent increase in case she 19 wants to give it to someone during the year. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Tim the Maintenance 21 Superintendent? 22 MS. MABRY: I'm sorry? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Tim the Maintenance 24 Superintendent? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 8-17-11 bwk 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't know you were a 2 superintendent, Tim. I thought you were a director or 3 something. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Director, superintendent, all those 5 things. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the last one? Fund 15? 7 MS. MABRY: Admin assistant for Road and Bridge. 8 Increased job responsibility changes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I've got my boy-dummy 10 question for the year. Or the week, maybe. The very first 11 one, merit-based step increase, how does that compare with 12 other offices? Does that make all deputy clerks equal? Or 13 is this one stepping ahead, or trying to catch up? Or -- 14 MS. MABRY: I don't know the answer to that 15 question. That would probably be something that H.R. will 16 need to address. I don't know. Cindy or Dawn have that 17 information. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Isn't that the County Clerk one? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care who answers it. 22 I just think it's kind of, you know, interesting to know. 23 Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess one of my questions 25 is -- kind of falls in behind what I think you're -- maybe -- 8-17-11 bwk 37 1 maybe we're both thinking similarly; I'm not sure. But if we 2 do all of these, what's proposed here, is there going to be 3 an additional increase to all these people again on top of 4 that? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 6 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So you do all of this, and 10 then you go up another 6 and a half percent. 11 MS. HARGIS: These are merit increases that we 12 brought to you. Some of them -- you know, the ones in green, 13 those are -- those are certifications based on education. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MS. HARGIS: Those they get automatically. The 16 ones in yellow are the merit increases that have been 17 requested for those people. The ones in blue are promotions. 18 There are two of those. And then the gold, which there are 19 two of, include increased responsibilities. And so those are 20 the smaller amounts. The certifications you would give 21 automatically, because that's what's in our policy book. And 22 that's if they reach them. These people are eligible to go 23 to school, but they may or may not. That's been our case in 24 the past. But we still have to budget for it just in case, 25 'cause we've run into that in the past. Some of these folks 8-17-11 bwk 38 1 may not get the opportunity to finish, and they may not get 2 them, but we still need to budget for it. And then the -- 3 then the gold ones, again, are increased responsibility. I 4 would consider that a merit increase as well. The others, 5 which I believe are on -- what is the other -- 6 MS. MABRY: Just the ones in white. 7 MS. HARGIS: The ones in white. 8 MS. MABRY: Just something to note. The reason why 9 we put an increase on top of this is 'cause if you're going 10 to give an across-the-board increase, if you give it here, 11 but not give it there, then it gets your step and grades out 12 of line. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just getting -- I 14 understand that. I'm just getting it -- trying to get to the 15 number of how much money it's going to take to do what is 16 being proposed here. 17 MS. HARGIS: The bottom line is 108,622. That 18 includes all benefits. 19 MS. MABRY: And all of these increases are already 20 included in the budget as we speak. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Already included? 22 MS. HARGIS: They're already included. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're included in the 24 bottom line? 25 MS. MABRY: Yes, they are. 8-17-11 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the County Clerk change, 2 that's the one we talked about in court; then we undid it, 3 then we said bring it back. That's -- 4 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. That is for my chief 5 deputy. According to the county policy, we get four 6 discretionary increases throughout the life, and this will be 7 one of them that I was requesting. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is yours one of those four? 9 Linda? 10 (Ms. Uecker nodded.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney? 12 MS. HARGIS: That one, he is actually giving up -- 13 he reduced his salary last year by 2.5, and if he recouped 14 that this year, he was giving that away and basically giving 15 it to his employee. This is his employee that has reached 16 the 20-year mark. And we talked about going out 25, so if we 17 went out 25, that one would not -- because he's not eligible 18 for the increase, 'cause he's at the end of his step. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I was under the impression that we 20 had agreed to go out three more steps. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. If you actually go up 22 to -- that's what I was going to mention. If you go up to -- 23 like Jonathan had said, if you go up to -- they're at a 12 24 now. If you go up to 16, that would cover somebody for a 25 30-year career. 8-17-11 bwk 40 1 MS. HARGIS: You talked about it, but I don't know 2 if you actually voted to do it. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think it's been voted. 4 I think it was talked about a lot. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no. But my -- my impression 6 was there was a consensus that favored going out -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it was. And we asked Cindy at 8 the time to run this for us. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: So that you could see how it would 11 look if we ran it out an additional six -- three times. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There it is. 13 MS. HARGIS: That's actually nine years. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you calculated the budget 16 impact of this? 17 MS. HARGIS: I don't think we have that many. I 18 think maybe five, six people. I don't think it's very much 19 more than that. We've had a couple of them -- I mean, we've 20 had some this last year, but they've -- a lot of them have 21 retired. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And the maintenance, 23 I'm fine with that, 'cause there's been a lot of increased 24 responsibilities there. Road and Bridge -- 25 MR. ODOM: Yes? 8-17-11 bwk 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we talked about the 2 increased responsibilities? That's Kelly, correct, on here? 3 MS. HOFFER: No. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not Kelly? 5 MS. HARGIS: Vickie. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's Vickie? And the -- what 7 -- I mean, what -- this is the first we've seen that, isn't 8 it? Or have we talked about this earlier, and I just forgot? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I haven't seen it. That 10 doesn't -- maybe I was asleep, but I don't think so. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you just reorganizing the 12 office, or -- 13 MR. ODOM: Trying, yes, sir. Trying to delegate a 14 little bit more, and have more responsibility. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you see Road and Bridge 17 on here? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's this one. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 21 MS. HARGIS: The big part of that other, by the 22 way, is that position that you talked about yesterday. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 30,000. 24 MS. HARGIS: That's that 30,000 position that Amos 25 requested -- 8-17-11 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yesterday. 2 MS. HARGIS: -- yesterday. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which one? 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second one down. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- is that included? 7 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to uninclude 10 it. I just don't -- I don't see that. 11 MS. HARGIS: We gave you everything that's been 12 asked for. 13 MS. MABRY: I tried to be consistent, in that I'm 14 putting -- everything needs to show up both places; either 15 all of one, or -- you know, I tried to stick with the same 16 thing, which is we put it in the budget yesterday, so it 17 shows up on the summary sheet as well. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we can't vote on these, 19 'cause we're in a workshop, but I'm just not in favor of, 20 when we're keeping a hiring freeze going, hiring a different 21 -- another employee, you know, in some office. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: On the -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- certifications. 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 8-17-11 bwk 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: J.P. 4, looks like the fifth one 2 down, did we approve certifications for -- as I recall, we 3 had a couple last year that requested that. 4 MS. HARGIS: We did not approve them for the 5 J.P.'s. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't think so. 7 MS. HARGIS: But that one was requested again. We 8 gave you the request based on that elected official's 9 request. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what was your 12 question again? I didn't follow that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You recall there was a request last 14 year for the J.P. clerks, because of some sort of 15 certification to a school that they were going to anyway, -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that they got certification. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And my recollection was that they 20 had asked for an educational certification step increase, and 21 we said no, that wasn't applicable to the educational. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wasn't part of what was -- 23 what was necessary to perform their job. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And here's another one out of J.P. 8-17-11 bwk 44 1 4. I think the ones last year were 1 and 3 last year, if I'm 2 not mistaken. 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. They all four went, but -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so what is this one? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Four. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, is it the same kind 7 of thing? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, apparently so. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting a degree in knitting 10 and -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another one that 12 probably, in my mind, should come out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If we didn't approve it for 1 14 and 3, there's no reason we should approve it for 4. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, on the 17 certifications, four of those in the Sheriff's Office, being 18 the two C.I.D.'s and the dispatcher with the advanced 19 certification, and the corrections sergeant, that's already 20 occurred. Those letters have already come across, so I'm 21 saying they're getting that salary as of now. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that policy's pretty well in 23 place, though. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with that. 8-17-11 bwk 45 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's not some additional 2 on top; it's already occurred. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- the H.R. 4 representative increase for increased duties? 5 MS. HARGIS: That's Cindy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cindy? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Under Animal Control officer, the 8 white one, -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I'm speaking from recollection, 11 that another Animal Control officer was -- was increased, I 12 believe, because of euthanasia or some certification, or some 13 other reason. And the one that's being spoken of here is to 14 keep in line -- apparently this one to be increased has more 15 seniority, I guess. 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And so, because the other one was 18 bumped up, this one should be bumped up. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This one here, I believe, if 20 I'm not mistaken, got her -- got her Animal Control 21 certification. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the one in the green did. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Officer certification, which 24 before had only been a kennel person. Didn't -- couldn't do 25 animal control, like picking up animals and stuff like that. 8-17-11 bwk 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The one just above it talks about -- 2 well, that's received euthanasia certificate. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 MS. HARGIS: But what happened was that that one 5 ended up making more than the regular officer because of the 6 certification, because they were so -- because of the steps. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The certification wouldn't 8 want to get paid more money. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's -- well, if it were because 10 of additional certification, I would think it would be the -- 11 that one that's in white would be in green. I'd want that 12 one looked at. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's just because -- to keep up 15 with the Joneses because of more seniority, I don't 16 necessarily subscribe to that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what it says. 18 MS. MABRY: If you'll look as well on the position 19 name, the one in green's an assistant A.C.O., and the one 20 below it is an A.C.O., so they are different positions, even 21 though they're related. So -- but we'll look into that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So the one below is already an 23 Animal Control officer? 24 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-17-11 bwk 47 1 MS. HARGIS: You have some part-time help requested 2 on this as well. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Those we heard about yesterday. 4 Ms. Bolin, Tax Office. 5 MS. HARGIS: District Clerk, and Maintenance. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bollier, the one indicated by 7 him, the part-time temporary building maintenance, I believe 8 that was the one where he was requesting for the summer. 9 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. That's just summer help. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's -- that's gone, isn't it? 11 Are you looking for next summer? 12 MR. BOLLIER: I'm looking for next summer. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It was a good try, wasn't it? 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know that it's going to rain 16 between now and then? (Laughter.) 17 MR. BOLLIER: Well, that's what I was fixing to 18 say. If it doesn't rain, I don't think we're going to have 19 to worry about it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll commit to not spending those 21 funds if it doesn't rain? 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope you have to spend them. Be 24 worth it. 25 MS. HARGIS: The second page is the open positions, 8-17-11 bwk 48 1 tentative positions, and positions removed. 2 MS. MABRY: I did receive a phone call this morning 3 from Sergeant Lalonde. He asked if he needed to be here 4 today, and I said, "Well, if there's something that you have 5 a problem with on your budget that you want to address, feel 6 free to be here," and he said, "I don't think I do." So, 7 obviously, the -- the one position there was okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I put him on notice that that 9 position would not be included or funded in the upcoming 10 year's budget. 11 MS. HARGIS: Trying to put these numbers together 12 as hastily as possible. We currently have, as of the payroll 13 of the 15th, 248 active employees; total number of employees, 14 262. And, actually, on the 8/15 payroll, we had 254. We had 15 248 without insurance and 254 with, so 262. We've actually 16 gone down three. We were at 265 last year. We actually were 17 -- had active positions of 274, but that was at last year's 18 budget when we ran the numbers. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 274 last year? 20 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're showing in the new budget 22 254? 23 MS. HARGIS: Well, that's -- we just ran the 24 numbers today to see what this last payroll was, and we had 25 254 paychecks last payroll. 8-17-11 bwk 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But budgeted was 262? Is that 2 what you said? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: So those are the positions that, 5 again -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On that, Jeannie, the only 7 issue that you have is where you have -- on the first top 8 half of that page, where you have open positions, she has 9 C.I.D. in there, and then she has corrections officer and 10 clerk. That's true; that's open, but we were going to try 11 and change that to the civil and give up those two. So, it 12 would be -- 13 MS. HARGIS: Two C.I.D. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. There's five positions 15 total, okay? Three of those are C.I.D.'s right now. One of 16 them's a jailer, and one of them is a jailer clerk. And what 17 I've asked to keep is one C.I.D., which was the narcotics, 18 one civil deputy, okay, and then the jail clerk. And totally 19 -- as Jonathan asked yesterday, totally eliminate two 20 positions out of there, which would end up being a -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be the corrections officer and 22 then a C.I.D. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. Plus a little bit 24 more, 'cause you're taking -- you know, that second C.I.D., 25 I'm turning it into a civil deputy, you might say, so that's 8-17-11 bwk 50 1 a lesser pay grade, so it would be a little bit more than a 2 C.I.D. you're getting back. You'll get back one full C.I.D. 3 and one that's a little more. 4 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the deputy's starting salary is 5 around 39,000. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which would actually give you 7 a little more back. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jannett, two of these are out 9 of your office, correct? 10 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The top two? 12 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you don't plan to fill 14 those? 15 MS. PIEPER: No, I don't. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 17 MS. PIEPER: However, I would like the option in 18 years to come, that should everything pick up, I would at 19 that point come back and request it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I would hope that you need them. 21 MS. PIEPER: It just worries me that any time that 22 we take a position out, it's so much harder to get back in. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You learned that, huh? 24 MS. PIEPER: I've learned that throughout the 25 years. 8-17-11 bwk 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just keep it -- get a copy of 2 this transcript and put it in the file. 3 MS. PIEPER: Remind y'all? But I won't request it 4 unless I absolutely need it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In that case, I mean, 6 Ms. Auditor, are you going to take those off the budget? Or 7 leave them in? 8 MS. HARGIS: I will remove those two. I will take 9 off the ones down at the bottom, the two C.I.D.'s. You have 10 the one in the Tax Office. I don't believe Diane is willing 11 to give that one up. That will probably -- that's the 12 replacement of the gentleman that retired. The Ag Barn, we 13 have a position in here. I'll leave that to the director of 14 -- over the ag facilities to say whether he still needs that 15 position or not. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. Like to leave it 17 in the budget, but leave it open. 18 MS. HARGIS: Janie's not here. I think she talked 19 about needing another officer. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She does. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She definitely does. It's -- 22 and she hates it. She'd like to be able to do it. She's 23 been trying to do without it, and it's just not working. 24 That's why she's not here today; she's got another rabies 25 case that she's having to deal with. 8-17-11 bwk 52 1 MS. HARGIS: The Extension Agent, this is our 2 portion of another agent if A & M brought them in. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Family and Consumer Science agent. 4 MS. HARGIS: So, they haven't brought one in. I 5 don't know if they're going to. I think they've cut their 6 budget, so do you want me to leave it in there or take it 7 out? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, let's leave it in, because it's 9 one of two Extension positions -- the key Extension 10 positions. 11 MS. HARGIS: The other three we're going to leave 12 in. We'll have to change the one to the deputy's position. 13 Then you have one in Road and Bridge. 14 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? I'm sorry. 15 MS. HARGIS: You have a position open in Road and 16 Bridge. Do you still need that position? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did he say? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, he wants to leave it in. 21 But not fill it? 22 MR. ODOM: I can wait. 23 MS. HARGIS: This is the switch that we just did in 24 H.R. And they keep -- I don't know what you want to do with 25 that. 8-17-11 bwk 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think that -- I mean, I 2 think that there may be really -- once Dawn gets her bearings 3 down there, I would think a lower level position is likely 4 going to be hired. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we talked about. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we talked about it. But 7 we're waiting on -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Talking about entry level. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like a 14. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A 14. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 14. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 14 or 15. Maybe a -- I think 14 we're trying to do away with most of the 14's. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 15. 16 MS. HARGIS: 15-1. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 15-1. 18 MS. HARGIS: 15-1 is still -- hang on just a 19 second. A 15-1 is 28,000, so it's still an entry. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's a good savings 21 right there. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 21? 23 MS. HARGIS: 28. That means we've eliminated 24 180,000, plus these other two. So, that looks to me like 25 those two -- 86,000, 87,000 onto that -- 8-17-11 bwk 54 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 280 total. 2 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That puts us down to -- 4 MS. HARGIS: That will raise our fund balance up if 5 we reduce that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Plus then we're leaving the others 7 in, as we not -- 8 MS. HARGIS: We're not filling. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If they don't fill them, we'll 10 accrue that in the fund balance. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For a little while, anyway. 12 MS. HARGIS: So, I would make a suggestion that if 13 we leave them in, that -- that everyone understands they have 14 to come back to the Court, regardless of who they are, to 15 fill that position. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Be a big -- depends on 17 workloads and things, of course, but if we can wait till 18 midyear, that would be a big help. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least. Makes a big 20 difference. Did we decide if D.P.S. is coming out or staying 21 in? 22 MS. HARGIS: Before we get off of the subject of 23 capital, so that Bob doesn't have to stay here forever -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: She's trying to run you off, Bob. 25 MS. HARGIS: I want to let him go. Sorry, but 8-17-11 bwk 55 1 these are not -- I have not got the latest checks that are in 2 here, so those are the -- the projects we have now. I think 3 y'all have a -- this is a list of everything that has been 4 requested, plus I now have another list from Juvenile 5 Probation. I have another list from Juvenile Probation for 6 -- I mean detention for some additional equipment that he 7 needs. This is the original request that we -- we got. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-oh, the print's getting 9 smaller. 10 MS. HARGIS: Sorry. So, you might want to pencil 11 in -- I've just got this one -- about 110,000 that the 12 Juvenile Detention has requested. Unfortunately, I only have 13 one copy. But he's requesting two vehicles, and he needs to 14 change the locks in the facility. And he's also requesting a 15 control panel replacement. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Requesting what? What's 17 that last part? 18 MS. HARGIS: Control panel replacement. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 110 is what you said? 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes. The control panel is 50,000, and 21 he has a quote on that. And the -- he has one vehicle that 22 has 120,000 miles, and then he has the 2004 van that he 23 brings to the courthouse, and it's got over 100,000 miles as 24 well, and starting to need repair. And the locks on the 25 doors are approximately 800 each. He needs 14 of those. 8-17-11 bwk 56 1 I'll get you a copy of this and put it in your box. I just 2 got it. Everybody always gives me their ultimate wish list, 3 and I don't generally -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Juvenile Detention total is 5 how much? 6 MS. HARGIS: About 110, plus or minus. Because the 7 two vehicles, we don't have a clear price on them yet. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we go down this capital 10 loan program just real quick? 11 MS. HARGIS: Sure can. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand what computers 13 and related equipment is. The second one is capital 14 expansion of Ag Barn, equipment and vehicles. Is that -- is 15 that, like, Maintenance Department type stuff? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the outdoor arena. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Equipment and vehicles? 18 MS. HARGIS: I'm not on the same page with you. 19 You want me -- which list are you looking at? I've given you 20 so many different pieces of paper. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have to pay 22 attention. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tim -- they sold all their 25 equipment; they bought some new equipment. 8-17-11 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what -- I'm just 2 asking what it is. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just trying to say what 4 it is. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is it, Tim? 6 MR. BOLLIER: I -- we sold a lot of equipment out 7 there at the Ag Barn, old equipment, in order to buy a new 8 ATV and a new Bobcat. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That shouldn't be on the 10 capital purchase summary. It should -- 11 MS. HARGIS: No, that's not on here. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The net amount was only about 13 $6,000. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. That amount was only 15 six-something -- $6,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is 92,000. 17 MS. HARGIS: The 92,000, that was the -- the arena. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Outdoor arena? 19 MS. HARGIS: The outdoor arena. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It cost more than that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of the proceeds might have 22 come out of another issue, though. Earlier one. I don't 23 know, though. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There's 213 spent on it right 25 now. 8-17-11 bwk 58 1 MS. HARGIS: We haven't gotten all the -- I mean, 2 we should have all the costs in the 2010. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know what that number 4 is, because the bid -- the bid amount on just doing the 5 construction, without Road and Bridge doing the leveling and 6 bringing all the -- 7 MS. HARGIS: That's in the -- it's in the other 8 issue. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is this? 10 MS. HARGIS: The first one is the 2010. The Ag 11 Barn expansion is 250,686. That's -- this Ag Barn equipment 12 and vehicles is what you approved for him to buy two years 13 ago with those ATV and all the equipment that you bought out 14 of it, all of the trucks that we bought out -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, this is two years ago? 16 MR. BOLLIER: Two years ago? That's trucks, then. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why are we looking at that? 18 MS. HARGIS: 'Cause there's money left in this 19 issue. The second page is really the more important pages 20 where you should show -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait, wait. You have 22 to do one at a time for me, okay? So what's the answer to 23 this Ag Barn equipment/vehicle? 24 MS. HARGIS: It was trucks and those small little 25 gators, and we bought -- 8-17-11 bwk 59 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A mower, a trailer. 2 MS. HARGIS: We bought two of these gators. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Oh. 4 MS. HARGIS: We got equipment. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Part of that comes -- it's part of -- 6 no, it is -- the ATV, no, no, no. That has to be part of the 7 airport, then. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, boy. 9 MS. HARGIS: I'll pull it for you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the vehicles. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MR. BOLLIER: There's vehicles on there, yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I tell you what's let's do. We're 14 getting a little disjointed. Why don't we take about a 15 15-minute recess. Kathy's about to pull her hair out down 16 here. 17 (Recess taken from 2:20 p.m. to 2:40 p.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order. 20 (Commissioner Baldwin whistled for attention.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We were talking about some capital 22 items. I don't know how she noted that on the record, but it 23 was very effective, at least for her. We were dealing with 24 some capital items. It occurs to me that maybe we were -- we 25 were getting mashed up here, our 2007-8 with our 2010, and 8-17-11 bwk 60 1 maybe some of it was carried over. 2 MS. HARGIS: I have the answer. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You ready to go? 4 MS. HARGIS: I am ready to go. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's have it. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. As y'all will recall, we had a 7 frame of a building back there in the back of the ag 8 facility, and we walled that in to put our -- and make a tool 9 and supply room out of it. We put a concrete foundation, we 10 built walls, and the first phase was done in '07-'08, and 11 that was 45,000. The second phase that we did the following 12 year was electrical. We did some electrical work out there 13 that was around 16,000, and then we did pay for the cost of 14 moving the old arena and demolishing that out of that. 15 That's what that 92,000 -- that's what that is. That's the 16 original old issue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz has suggested on 18 the capital that with the remaining capital funds that we 19 have from those two issues, that we may want to bring those 20 forward into one pot. You may not be able to do it because 21 of arbitrage; you may have to keep them separate because of 22 the -- of the -- what is it, five-year period on arbitrage? 23 MR. HENDERSON: Three-year. In terms of spending? 24 Exactly what arbitrage issue are you thinking about, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's a tax issue that -- 8-17-11 bwk 61 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, this -- this particular issue, 2 we were free from arbitrage on it, because it was under -- 3 it's considered a small issue. But basically, you're 4 supposed to spend the money in three years, unless you have 5 an architectural reason or engineering reason; then it's 6 extended to five years. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: So, that's the I.R.S. rules. So, we 9 knew we were waiting on the ag facility. Most of this 10 '07-'08 issue that -- that we were dealing with earlier, 11 those funds, there's some I.T. funds left there, some 12 software money. And. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First page is '07-'08? 14 MS. HARGIS: The -- the little page, the one-page 15 document is '07-'08. It actually was sold in '08. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hold it up. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm really confused. 18 MS. HARGIS: One page. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have that. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We don't have that one. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, don't got it. 22 MS. HARGIS: Supposed to be -- didn't I hand 23 that out? I have 10 copies of each. I thought they were 24 stapled together. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But the point is, we probably need 8-17-11 bwk 62 1 to figure out a way to -- 2 MS. HARGIS: What I need you to tell me is, if we 3 can go by the projects, what we need to eliminate, if we're 4 done, as I've shown most of the projects on that page, and 5 then we can lump them into one. I can just hold that as 6 funds remaining or surplus funds from that issue. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: Okay? But -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what you wanted to get done? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 MS. HARGIS: But I need to make sure that there's 12 no -- you know, we're -- most of that money is -- is pretty 13 much left from software and the ag, because, see, the ag 14 facility, in that particular one we had 350,000, and we 15 didn't use very much of that one. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- 350,000 at the ag 17 facility? 18 MS. HARGIS: The original. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you're saying? 20 I can't hear. 21 MS. HARGIS: The '07-'08 issue, I believe, as I 22 recall -- if you look on this page, I've got exactly how 23 much -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Coming to you, Buster. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Thank you. 8-17-11 bwk 63 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That makes a lot more sense. 3 MS. HARGIS: In the Ag Barn, we had -- excuse me. 4 We had 454,000. We spent 250,000. We have 203 left there. 5 I don't know that you want to earmark that for anything else 6 but the Ag Barn. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what -- what year was 8 this? 9 MS. HARGIS: This is '07 -- it was basically sold 10 in '08. We called it the '07 issue, but it was sold in '08. 11 It was funded in March of '08. Road and Bridge spent all but 12 $1,100 on theirs. There's a little bit of money left in 13 Animal Control, but the majority of this money is -- except 14 for a little bit of I.T. money you can see at the bottom, is 15 the Ag Barn. So, I'd like to at least pull out the I.T. 16 portion, because we need -- I'll explain that in a second. 17 And then the rest of it should go to the -- to the ag 18 facility. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 20 MS. HARGIS: 'Cause there's not much left in any of 21 the other categories. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pull out I.T., and everything 23 else goes into the Ag Barn, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Works for me. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Including the courthouse grounds? 8-17-11 bwk 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're done here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You're good on everything in the 4 courthouse that was done, where we did the reworking of all 5 the electrical, the sprinklers and resodding and so forth? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the windows in this part? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 8 MS. HARGIS: No, this is not the windows. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of course, if it doesn't rain, 10 we'll have to plant new sod. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, if it doesn't rain much, we'll 12 be planting new sod. 13 MS. HARGIS: This is the landscaping of the front 14 of the courthouse. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can go to Ag Barn. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is the -- is the Ag 17 Barn part of it, is that just a general maintenance, or was 18 it earmarked for windows and what -- do you recall? Or do 19 you have notes? 20 MS. HARGIS: As I recall, it was earmarked for 21 expansion of the -- expansion and repair of the facility. It 22 was not specifically set as to exactly what you were going to 23 do. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think the first part of 25 that we talked about was moving the outdoor arena, and the 8-17-11 bwk 65 1 rest of it was -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did that come out of this? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Moving the outdoor arena? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so -- 7 MS. HARGIS: You know, we finished up with -- the 8 lights would have come out of here, had we -- and if you do, 9 you know, approve the lights at some point, they will come 10 out of here. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: And that will pretty much do most of 13 that, 'cause it's -- the lights are about 150,000, the last 14 quote y'all had. Then it went down to 100, so I don't know 15 which one you're going to use. You got two different bids on 16 the lights, on different phases, as I recall. Two different 17 meetings. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last bid was 88, wasn't it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems about right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- okay, so we have about 21 250,000 -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for the Ag Barn out of this. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Out of '07-'08, okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8-17-11 bwk 66 1 MS. HARGIS: And then about 25,000 left for I.T. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Not out of the '07-'08, though. 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it's down at the bottom. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very bottom. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Interest income. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Next to the last. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: All right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the 2010 is -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Then the 2010 has "2010" on top of it. 11 It's the one with the staple on the two pages. And this one 12 was, again, the building of that building in the back, 13 because the original one that we had in '08 was only for the 14 major facilities. So, this is -- we put the concrete floor 15 and things of that nature in here, so I've labeled it 16 incorrectly, and I will label it correctly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Courthouse, that project was 18 complete, correct? 19 MS. HARGIS: The courthouse -- on this one, if we 20 can -- let's see. The computers, we still have 40,000. I 21 was just informed by John that he's still going to use that 22 money for the rest of the year. That was a two-year program 23 replacing our computers, so he will be using that. He 24 usually orders them this time of the year for the following 25 year. 8-17-11 bwk 67 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: And then the video equipment for the 3 courtrooms, we got all that we could get done. And I think 4 we had a little left. We would have liked to have done more, 5 but we were a little short on that. I'll defer to the Judge 6 on that one. That's the video equipment and -- I think we 7 would like to expand that. We kind of ran into a brick wall 8 with other counties. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Need a little cooperation that we 10 haven't yet received, so we'll have to come back to it when 11 we can. 12 MS. HARGIS: The rest of them have all spent the 13 allocated money. We reallocated it according to what I've 14 got, the titles. Some of that money was reallocated. If you 15 turn to the second page, again, the first two items have been 16 done. The biggest portion that we have left is what's left 17 in the annex. And -- and then the next portion is the amount 18 of money that we didn't have to spend on the airport. The 19 water line is complete. We actually did get a little bit of 20 refund, which we turned around and paid our RAMP grant with 21 for this year, part of our RAMP grant, to save our budget a 22 little bit. The next one was the dams. We -- Commissioner 23 Oehler did a good job of keeping those costs down, and all 24 those engineering fees are now in there, so I believe we're 25 done on that. 8-17-11 bwk 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That last little -- what, $28,000 or 2 something came out of there? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was it. 4 MS. HARGIS: It's done. Then we had some money 5 left from the unallocated premium on the bonds. Remember, we 6 sold these bonds at a premium, and we had some issuance cost. 7 We've had a little bit of interest income. So, we have about 8 751,000 left. We were going to take -- it was my 9 recommendation to take the small capital items that were 10 requested this year out of there, rather than -- than -- 11 because at that point it wasn't enough to -- we have the I.T. 12 program. I think you received this at another time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This one? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 MS. HARGIS: I was also just informed by John on 17 this particular list that the City is not going to share in 18 the GIS portion, so that's got to go up about $4,000, and so 19 that would make -- he's requested about 76,000. We have a 20 small request from the Ag Extension Office of 1,000. We have 21 40,000 for foundation for our fire department -- possible 22 fire department. We have some food carts, as you recall, and 23 cameras at the jail, total of 64. And, actually, I had put 24 the vehicles that -- this is the -- the Sheriff had requested 25 that we lease three vehicles, and that would be the payment 8-17-11 bwk 69 1 for the lease. Then Road and Bridge asked for a dump truck 2 and -- two dump trucks and two side loaders. And then 3 Juvenile Detention had requested 2,500, so the total was 4 410,764.62. But I'm going to have to add in -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Add the four; you got 415. 6 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, about 415, 'cause there's one 7 additional item, again, that I've been requested to discuss. 8 And as y'all know, we have Microsoft Office on our computers, 9 and it's a 2003 version. There's a 2010 version out there, 10 and we're kind of blocking up to the fact that we can open 11 other people's e-mails still, but we're going to come to the 12 point where we won't, because so many companies and people 13 are going to the 2010 version. So, a lot of times we do have 14 difficulty opening up documents from somewhere else, or doing 15 them, and to convert everybody's computers would be about 16 76,000. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: How much? 18 MS. HARGIS: 76,000. Because the new computers 19 that he's going to get in, he no longer can -- I don't think 20 he -- can you get the XP still? 21 MR. TROLINGER: No, cannot. 22 MS. HARGIS: You can't get it, so we would have -- 23 end up with incompatible computers. And we had that at the 24 city when I was there, and it was crazy, because we'd send an 25 attachment to somebody in our own office, and they couldn't 8-17-11 bwk 70 1 open it 'cause they didn't have the same version. So, if 2 we're going to convert everybody, I mean, we all need to go 3 at one time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're up to about 490? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 6 MR. TROLINGER: It is somewhat of a compatibility 7 issue. And I'm hesitant to go forward with it, but if we're 8 going to have an issue, or if the money's available now, I 9 hate to not do it this year; then next year, say I've got to 10 do it next year. So, it's a -- it's a next year's okay 11 thing, but if we can go forward with it in this budget, that 12 would be -- that would be good. Good way to go. 13 MS. HARGIS: So, we have 490, and we had discussed 14 using the existing capital funds that we have remaining for 15 these -- for these projects, which would still leave about 16 250,000 on the table. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I don't have a 18 problem with that, but on the airport, I think we need to 19 leave that designated at the airport. I think there's going 20 to be, in the coming years, capital projects out there that 21 we're going to need to fund, if we can keep it in here for as 22 long as we can, which there's enough money to do that. 23 MS. HARGIS: 2015. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Has that money actually been to the 25 airport and come back? 8-17-11 bwk 71 1 MS. HARGIS: The only money that went to the 2 airport was the exact amount of the water line that we were 3 requested, which was 285,000. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They wanted it all to go over 5 there; they would be gracious enough to give us back what 6 they didn't spend. 7 MS. HARGIS: But I didn't do that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not the way we chose 9 to do it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You know the basis for my question. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's already been there, it's got 13 airport tattooed on it. 14 MS. HARGIS: But it has not. And this was -- this 15 was a local project, and we did not have any F.A.A. money in 16 it. So, therefore, we can use our -- our money in our -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There was no grant money? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind -- I mean, it will 19 be reallocated at some point, but I just look at Mooney out 20 there as a -- it's going to take a bunch of time out there, 21 and -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: To get in compliance. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there's some other -- 24 MS. HARGIS: There's some other environmental 25 issues. 8-17-11 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To get off the ground, if the 2 City would -- gets off the ground. But I think there's -- 3 you know, there's going to be some capital projects out 4 there. If nothing else, we can use it for the RAMP grant. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the RAMP grant is a maintenance 6 and operations grant that we give 25,000; the City gives 7 25,000, and the State matches it with 50,000 to repair the 8 lighting systems and things on the -- on the -- actually, on 9 the runway. So, it's a grant match. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jeannie, on the fire 11 station, -- 12 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- there's the $40,000 -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for the foundation? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's foundation and 18 architect. 19 MS. HARGIS: Engineering services are included. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's going to be a Kerr 23 County facility, some part of Kerr County's participation in 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, I hope so. I 8-17-11 bwk 73 1 haven't talked to Leonard yet, but -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, you haven't asked him 3 about that? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't asked Leonard 5 about it yet. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard's always been most agreeable 7 to do -- take one for the team. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's always been very 9 agreeable. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he's not paying attention. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can tell him that he was 12 not paying attention, so -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did our part. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- he agreed to it. 15 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks, Leonard. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate it, buddy. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Leonard. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What a guy. We don't pay 20 him enough. 21 MR. ODOM: What did y'all cut? (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just gave you a project to 23 build. Don't worry about it; we'll tell you later. 24 MS. HOFFER: That's what we were just talking 25 about. 8-17-11 bwk 74 1 MS. HARGIS: And then we have -- you know, if you 2 want to fund that additional -- some of the additional items 3 at Juvenile Detention, I -- if we're going to -- what I would 4 suggest, and it's up to y'all, I would prefer we didn't go 5 into another lease program on vehicles, if possible. Because 6 it -- it's -- you know, it's a three-year -- it's almost like 7 a debt service sitting there in our M & O waiting. You know, 8 if we can pay cash for three vehicles, rather than -- 9 MR. HENDERSON: Put it in I & S end. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: So I much prefer doing that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we're faced with at this 13 point is to -- we pretty well got all these capital funds 14 over the last two issues pretty much allocated. We need to 15 be looking down the road. 16 MS. HARGIS: And that's what the -- the written 17 page is, to be looking down the road. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looking down the road. 19 MS. HARGIS: Now, the Sheriff's jail request, 20 again, we've got that one included in this. It's how you 21 want to treat the vehicles. Road and Bridge's -- the first 22 two items are included, but the others are not. The 23 retirement cannot be included in a capital item, but it's put 24 here for y'all's suggestion. The Crime Victims grant that 25 was on here has been -- we did get approval on that grant, so 8-17-11 bwk 75 1 we put it in here early on, because we weren't sure. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it got funded, didn't it? 3 MS. HARGIS: It got funded. It got funded. The 4 Kerrville fire station, this was a big estimate. I didn't 5 know whether we want to keep this in, reduce the amount, but 6 these are things that when we -- once we fund what we 7 absolutely have, then I think we can come up with a list that 8 we give to Bob that are true capital items, and let him come 9 back and tell us where we can fit that in. And I would 10 suggest that we include the minimum security jail in that, so 11 that we -- we can kind of see where we need to go. And we 12 don't need to necessarily fund that right now. We can have a 13 little bit of time, get through the regular budget, and 14 then -- which is what we've done in the past, and then put 15 this together and let y'all decide what items really need to 16 be on there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the fire station, is that 18 number -- it looks high. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is high. 20 MS. HARGIS: It's just a number. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just a number. And it 22 looks -- with the difficulty that we're having with Leonard 23 at this point -- (Laughter.) I think the 40 is what we 24 probably need to put in there. Just my opinion. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, but if we're looking 8-17-11 bwk 76 1 down the road the next couple of years, we need to have a -- 2 a number for a fire station there. I mean, we're going to 3 go -- if the ESD happens, we're going to have to have a spot 4 for them to go, so we ought to just plan for that in our debt 5 structure down the road. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MR. ODOM: And please look at your drainage on that 8 one. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you look at the 10 drainage. That's what we're talking about. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe there's some 12 drainage out there, if we ever get any more rain. 13 MS. HARGIS: Well, and please note that this is not 14 just the building; this is -- it's also equipment. I was 15 considering possibly you would want to buy one truck, or two 16 trucks. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just leave that number 18 there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 20 MS. HARGIS: And we do need money to resurface 21 several of our parking lots. Road and Bridge is one. 22 Juvenile Probation, as you recall, we moved over to the old 23 building with space. That parking lot is about a $30,000 24 fix. Leonard gave me that number. So, we have several -- 25 Janie's, I believe, parking lots needs to be repaired. So, 8-17-11 bwk 77 1 some of our buildings need some -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did they all request that? 3 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 5 MS. HARGIS: They did. So, there's a lot of wish 6 lists out there. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of wish lists out 8 there. 9 MS. HARGIS: Whether they get approved or not. 10 But, again, I think when you put the capital program together 11 later, then we can define those a little bit better. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to rework the existing 13 capital and give us a new simplified showing of that? 14 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And it's going to include the 16 -- the upgrade that John needs on -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Software. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 2010, okay. 19 MS. HARGIS: And do you -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you suggesting, or did you 21 suggest a little bit ago, that for the additional amount 22 that's still remaining in the '07-'8 and '10, to put the 23 purchase of the Sheriff's vehicles -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Rather than -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in there? 8-17-11 bwk 78 1 MS. HARGIS: Rather than leasing them. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But in this one, as opposed to an 3 upcoming issue? 4 MS. HARGIS: I'd rather put them in this one. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: I think it would be a little bit 7 cleaner. Because, again -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So that Option 2, then -- 9 MS. HARGIS: 'Cause we're going to have a little 10 bit of the arbitrage problem if we don't. With the airport, 11 we've got something to say that we're still designing. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: As with the Ag Barn. 13 MS. HARGIS: Right. But on the other items, we 14 really don't. So, I -- you know, I don't want to get in 15 trouble with I.R.S. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you were getting edgy about 17 that. 18 MS. HARGIS: And that -- I think that way, we don't 19 have immediately 45,000 facing us in our M & O budget for the 20 next two years. It's clean. We can start from fresh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think on a capital asset, 22 even if they're lease payments, you can do that out of 23 capital issue. But we don't know that we're going to do 24 that, so if we can handle it now, just go ahead and handle it 25 up front, and not have that worry facing us down the road. 8-17-11 bwk 79 1 MS. HARGIS: So, I will give you a clean list of 2 all the capital items that we've discussed today. I will 3 give you a clean list on the 2008 tax note, and the 2010, and 4 we will leave in the airport and the Ag Barn. And other than 5 that, we'll use that money to take care of what we need this 6 year, and then any remaining funds, the Court can earmark 7 those as they -- as they see fit. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We tentatively plugged in a 9 workshop for next Tuesday. 1:00? 1:30? What's your 10 preference? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:00. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 1 o'clock? Okay. 13 MS. UECKER: Judge, can I just point out something? 14 I should have mentioned -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to make us mad 16 about something, are you? 17 MS. UECKER: Who knows? I don't know. Maybe not. 18 Yesterday, when you went around asking the elected officials 19 about their budget, I just want to point out -- and I didn't 20 think about it yesterday -- our wonderful State Legislature 21 has decreased the amount of our reimbursement of our jurors 22 per day from $34 to $26. So, I don't know what impact that's 23 going to have on this -- on the jury line items, as far as 24 the jury fees. I mean, I haven't had a chance to talk to the 25 Auditor. I don't know if she shows those back into that line 8-17-11 bwk 80 1 item, or if that's just -- or not. But so far this year, 2 it's -- it would be an impact of, you know, between $5,000 3 and $6,000. 4 MS. HARGIS: On jury money? 5 MS. UECKER: Uh-huh, 'cause they reduced the 6 reimbursement. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Eight dollars per day, per juror. 8 Thank you, Mr. Henderson. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Bob. 10 MS. UECKER: I just wanted to bring that up. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Try and make an estimate of that so 12 that we can allocate for that, would you? Okay. Is that it? 13 I guess we'll see you next -- well, actually we'll see you 14 next Monday. We're adjourned. 15 (Budget workshop adjourned at 3:10 p.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-17-11 bwk 81 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 26th day of August, 8 2011. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-17-11 bwk