1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, August 22, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 22, 2011 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to change existing County-maintained road name from 5 Bass and Wagner Rd. SW to Bass Ranch Rd. SW; set public hearing, Precinct 4 9 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 award or reject bid(s) received on lighting for new outdoor arena at Hill Country Youth Exhibit 8 Center 10 9 1.4 Conduct public hearing for County Clerk's Records Management and Records Archival Written 10 Plan in accordance with Local Government Code 14 11 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on implementation of the burn ban 15 12 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 approve budget for Kerr 9-1-1 15 14 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to approve County Clerk's Records Management and 15 Records Archival Written Plan in accordance with Local Government Code 25 16 1.7 Consider/discuss, take action for Maintenance 17 to go out for HVAC bids 25 18 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept Les Huff’s retirement request, move 19 current employee to supervisor position, and hire for opening 26 20 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 21 request from Friends of Center Point to use Lions Park for upcoming fundraising and public 22 relations events on September 3rd & 17th 27 23 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve SAVNS Maintenance Grant Contract between 24 Office of the Attorney General and Kerr County for the state fiscal year 2012 36 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) August 22, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning a plan of action for moving forward in 4 reference to minimum security facilities 37 5 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on nomination of new Airport Board member, 6 Ed Livermore 50 7 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on AACOG Alamo Agency Report on Aging for Kerr County 52 8 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 9 participation in a road paving program with City of Ingram 54 10 1.11 Presentation from Ray Watson regarding Kerr 11 Economic Development Corporation 62 12 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on various components related to new outdoor arena 13 at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 79 14 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to call an election to be placed on November 2011 general 15 election ballot on the question of imposing a hotel occupancy tax within the county for the purpose 16 of implementing a venue project described as restoration, renovation, development, expansion, 17 and construction of Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center and related infrastructure 85 18 1.16 Presentation by Daphne Webber, Regional 19 Representative of Office of Court Administration, on the Scofflaw program 97 20 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to: 21 (1) Terminate Inmate Boarding Agreement between City of Kerrville and Kerr County, Texas, effective 22 90 days following written notice; (2) Authorize Kerr County to provide written notice to City of 23 Kerrville of termination of this Inmate Boarding Agreement; and/or (3) invite City of Kerrville 24 to enter into a new interlocal agreement with Kerr County providing for housing of city prisoners 118 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) August 22, 2011 2 PAGE 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 City of Kerrville property tax collection contract 133 4 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 approve matching funds for First Responder equipment grant application with Homeland 6 Security (FEMA) 140 7 4.1 Pay Bills 146 4.2 Budget Amendments 146 8 4.3 Late Bills 147 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 148 9 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 10 Assignments 148 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 149 11 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve amount for fee appraisal on real property at 3350 Junction Highway (Executive Session) --- 13 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 confer with County Attorney regarding potential or anticipated litigation involving Kerr County 15 Animal Control (Executive session) --- 16 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize legal steps to be taken subsequent to 17 decision of Travis County District Court on LCRA CREZ line case (Executive Session) --- 18 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 19 consider submitting sealed bid on Texas National Guard Armory property in Kerrville, Texas, being 20 offered for sale by Adjutant General’s Department of the Texas National Guard. (Executive Session) --- 21 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 22 in Executive Session 150 23 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to clarify details of agreement between City of 24 Kerrville and Kerr County related to street paving done by Road and Bridge Department 151 25 --- Adjourned 161 5 1 On Monday, August 22, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, Monday, August 22nd, 2011, at 9 a.m. It is that time 11 now. If you would please stand and join me in a moment of 12 prayer, followed by our pledge of allegiance to the flag of 13 our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 17 that wishes on to be heard on any matter which is not a 18 listed agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward 19 and tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on 20 an agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a 21 participation form. Should be some located at the rear of 22 the room. If, for example, we get to an agenda item and 23 you've not filled out a participation form and you wish to be 24 heard, that's fine too. Just get my attention in some 25 manner; I will see that you do have that opportunity. But 8-22-11 6 1 right now, if there's any member of the audience or public 2 that wishes to be heard with regard to any matter which is 3 not a listed agenda item, come forward and tell us what's on 4 your mind. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 5 Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have anything, 7 Judge. Thank you for asking, though. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Overby? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Two things, Judge and 10 Commissioners. I had -- Saturday night, I had the 11 opportunity to go attend the 4-H awards ceremony, 2010-2011 12 year in review, and I know all of y'all have done that 13 before. I had an opportunity to go out and see a lot of our 14 youth that do a fantastic job in so many programs here. And, 15 again, I want to say a special thanks to Roy Walston and 16 Laurinda Boyd, and again, the parents with that. Again, 17 those kids are character kids, and I can tell you, this 18 weekend I heard a lot of support from those parents for that 19 ag facility out there as well. One other thing I wanted to 20 say -- mention to you. I got my blue and gold on this week. 21 Football season starts Friday night, and also the Tivy Hall 22 of Fame will be announced on Wednesday. But also, we got a 23 lot of communities that begin with bands and pep squads 24 beginning Friday night, and parents traveling this week, and 25 so enjoy the year in Kerr County football. 8-22-11 7 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be spending, along with, I 3 think, Commissioner Oehler and Number 2 -- I don't think 4 Number 1's going to Austin this week for a conference, 5 post-legislative conference. And I believe today in 6 Kerrville as well; I know in Comfort it is the first day of 7 school, so people out driving around need to be watching for 8 weepy moms, like my wife. Gus went to kindergarten today, so 9 it was a little bit traumatic for her. But everyone be 10 careful; school zones are open, and stay off your cell 11 phones. I know about that one. And don't speed. Watch out 12 for the kids. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good idea. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What does it cost if you if 16 you -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $210, plus a lot of time. 18 (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I do appreciate 21 Commissioner Overby going -- did you go, Judge, to the awards 22 deal? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I was not able to make it, no. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wasn't either, so at least 25 this -- this was a good chance for Overby to kind of get into 8-22-11 8 1 that program. I think I've been the last four or five years 2 in a row. So, anyway, that is a good -- good, good program, 3 and there are a lot of good kids and a lot of good parents 4 that do a lot of kind of positive things for themselves and 5 the community. That's it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think this is probably the first 7 year in a long, long time that I haven't been to the 4-H 8 awards banquet. I know it did give Commissioner Overby an 9 opportunity to be there. And I've said it numerous times 10 before; I'll say it again, that the young people that 11 participate in those programs, 4-H and ag and the FFA and 12 those particular programs, I don't see in my juvenile court. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are positive kids, working 15 with other positive kids, doing positive things, and I just 16 don't see them. And it's -- it's not rocket science. 17 They're just directed properly. You got family involvement, 18 you got the parents, you got the rest of the family, and it's 19 just a positive experience all the way around. So, I hope 20 that that support continues to build, because it is very, 21 very important that we continue those programs. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I got one more thing. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Forgot to mention, today from 25 11:00 to 1:00 at Hill Country Telephone, they are having 8-22-11 9 1 their grand opening of their new big warehouse building 2 they've built. And they really -- they're really taking the 3 lead in the telephone business in our area, and -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- I see them doing a lot of 6 positive things out there. Anyway, they're having their 7 little opening today. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Let's get on with 9 our agenda. At 9 a.m., Item 1 is to consider, discuss, take 10 appropriate action to change an existing County-maintained 11 road name from Bass and Wagner Road Southwest to Bass Ranch 12 Road Southwest, and set a public hearing, same being located 13 in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 14 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. Guess that's on. 15 Bass and Wagner Road Southwest is an existing 16 County-maintained road on the 1959 road list. It was named 17 C.C. Wagner. Mr. Willard Bass requested August the 8th of 18 this year through 911 offices to change the existing name of 19 Bass and Wagner Road Southwest to the requested road name of 20 Bass Ranch Road Southwest. Because this road's an existing 21 County-maintained road, it must have a public hearing set, so 22 at this time, we ask the Court to set a public hearing for 23 Monday, September the 26th, 2011, at 9 a.m. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8-22-11 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 2 public hearing on the matter for September 26th, 2011, at 3 9 a.m. Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 9 Item 2, which is a 9:05 timed item; to consider, discuss, 10 take appropriate action to award or reject bids received on 11 the lighting for the new outdoor arena at the Hill Country 12 Youth Exhibit Center. Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I put this on the agenda 14 because we opened bids -- a bid on this thing, only bid we 15 got last meeting, and we didn't take any action on it. And I 16 hope that we can get this approved and get it -- get it to 17 move forward, and so we can get lights and all up like we 18 said we would do whenever we tore down the old -- old outdoor 19 arena. County fair is coming up, and we're under a pretty 20 tight schedule to get that done so they can have use of that. 21 And there's another agenda item later on to address some -- 22 some other issues, or not, but I really hope that we can do 23 this, and we can get it to where it is functional and can be 24 used. Because if we don't put some lights up out there, it's 25 going to sit there and nothing's going to happen on it. And 8-22-11 11 1 these lights -- if we don't do anything else much at that 2 arena, maybe some other components which we'll talk about 3 later, then we can focus our on whole mind on doing something 4 out there at the show barn. But I move that we award the bid 5 for the outdoor lighting for the new outdoor arena to D.W. 6 Electric in the amount of -- whatever it was that was bid; 7 88,000 -- do you have that number? 8 MR. LEWIS: 190. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 88,190. 10 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that that be awarded and 12 be done. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Let 15 me clarify something, if we might. We had an earlier bid, 16 when the specs were slightly different, that the low bid on 17 that one was also D.W. Electric, and then we put it out to 18 bid for an alternate, and the alternate bid that we most 19 recently received is the one you're moving we accept? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. It's just 21 the lesser of the two, and it's -- we're able to use the 22 underground power that was run earlier for that purpose 23 without having to go with three-phase lighting, which is more 24 expensive. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Question, Commissioner 8-22-11 12 1 Oehler. The -- on the timeline, how long -- how long does it 2 take once the -- if the construction were to move forward, if 3 we move forward here on getting the lights put up, how long 4 would they need to have? What's the installation time on -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've been made aware that it 6 takes six weeks to get the poles once they're ordered. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they can do a bunch of 9 the other work, you know, during the meantime; get all the 10 underground lines run, and get holes dug and be ready for the 11 poles when they come in, and go ahead and get it done. And 12 we're lucky in one way; even though we put this off for two 13 weeks, the county fair is not until the 28th through 30th 14 this year, of October. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Of October. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it had been earlier in 17 October, it might have been a problem getting them done prior 18 to that. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is the installation of the 20 lights and your comments, thinking that if we go with those 21 hookups and get those set up right now, that whenever the ag 22 facility decides to move forward, whenever that should happen 23 that we get funding to go forward, are you -- are you looking 24 at tabling the roof over the outdoor arena to be the last 25 thing that would be looked at? 8-22-11 13 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. So, Phase I and Phase 3 II would be first before any -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's a lot of things that 5 come, in my mind, before we do -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- anything else there. 8 Maybe some other things we'll talk about later, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- no -- nothing of any great 11 expense. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment to make is that, 14 you know, I'm glad you asked the question about the roof, 15 because I think that does need to be just deferred for a long 16 time, if not permanently. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think this is what we 19 told -- when we moved the arena, this is what we said we were 20 going to do. That's the main reason I think we need to go 21 ahead and do it. We told -- it was for the 4-H group that 22 uses it; they asked about this when they were part of our 23 committee. We were doing the layout, and they asked if there 24 were going to be lights. We said yes, we may get lights back 25 over there. May not be right away, but as soon as we could. 8-22-11 14 1 So, I think we need to go forward and honor that commitment. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 3 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 4 hand. 5 (Commissioners Overby, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 6 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Opposed. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's move on to 10 our 9:10 timed item. It is past that time now. At this 11 time, I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I'll 12 open a public hearing for the County Clerk's Records 13 Management and Records Archival Written Plan in accordance 14 with Subchapter C of Chapter 262 of the Local Government 15 Code. 16 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:14 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 17 court, as follows:) 18 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 20 that wishes to be heard with respect to the County Clerk's 21 Records Management and Records Archival Written Plan in 22 accordance with Subchapter C, Chapter 262 of the Local 23 Government Code? Seeing no one coming forward in that 24 respect, I will close the public hearing with respect to the 25 County Clerk's Records Management and Records Archival 8-22-11 15 1 Written Plan in accordance with Subchapter C, Chapter 262 of 2 the Local Government Code. 3 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:14 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 4 reopened.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 7 Court meeting. Let's go to Item 3 on our agenda; to 8 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on implementation 9 of the burn ban. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 19 our 9:15 timed item, which is Item 6; to consider, discuss, 20 take appropriate action to approve the budget for Kerr 911. 21 Mr. Amerine? 22 MR. AMERINE: Good morning, Judge Tinley and 23 Commissioners. I'm Bill Amerine, Executive Director for Kerr 24 911. It's hard to believe that this is my ninth time before 25 this body, nine times for annual budgets. We do -- this is 8-22-11 16 1 in accordance with the Health and Safety Code 772, Subchapter 2 D. Every year the director puts together a budget under the 3 guidance of his board of direct -- our board of managers, and 4 then proceed to present that to the jurisdictions which we 5 serve. That's been done. The board approved this budget on 6 the 30th of June, 2011, and the City of Kerrville on the 9th 7 of August, and City of Ingram on the 2nd of August. This 8 year's budget is approximately $3,000 less than last. That's 9 based on a mix of different things. 10 We're actually seeing an increase in our wireless 11 revenue of about 8.5 percent, and a decrease -- annual 12 decease in our wire line, which is traditional phone service, 13 business trunks, things like that, of about 5 and a half 14 percent. Also some increase in IP-based phone service 15 through Time-Warner Cable and Vonage of about 5 percent. So, 16 where does the decrease come from if we have overall 17 increases in revenue? This year, as we did in 2007, 2009, 18 and 2011, we're reducing our surcharge. This year we're 19 reducing the business POTS, business plain old telephone 20 service lines to businesses, by 1 percent, and we're reducing 21 the business trunk by 3.5 percent. And that's where the 22 approximate decrease in our annual budget comes from. 23 So, what are the highlights of this budget besides 24 our revenue stream and our tax base? We're seeing an 25 increase of about $30,000 in 2012 for the operational cost to 8-22-11 17 1 911, and the biggest part of that is twice now in the last 2 three years, we've had major cable cuts between here and San 3 Antonio which have not only affected local phone service, but 4 have also brought the 911 system to its knees. I mean, 5 essentially, we had no 911 service, and that's because we 6 have a single point of failure; we have a single trunk group 7 that serves us between San Antonio and here, and when that 8 cable gets cut, everything goes down. So, we worked with 9 AT&T and Windstream to produce a geographically diverse trunk 10 group that goes north to Austin, over to Fredericksburg, and 11 south to Kerrville, so if we have a failure, then we have a 12 failover to that secondary trunk group. And it really does 13 not get used unless we have that failure, so it's a true 14 failover trunk group. There's inherent costs with that, 15 having that set there, but it's a lot better than not having 16 that service. 17 Additionally, we have a new 911 system we installed 18 last year, both back room equipment and dispatch equipment, 19 and that equipment has some inherent additional costs as 20 well. That's why we went from about $90,000 for 911 21 operations to $120,000 for next year. We do have some 22 staffing changes. We have had a -- a 25-hour-a-week, 23 30-hour-a-week secretary/receptionist, which in 2012 we're 24 changing to a 2-hour-a-day, or 20-hour-a-week -- I'm sorry, 25 10-hour-a-week secretary/receptionist. The need for -- and 8-22-11 18 1 I'll get to the reason why. The need for having a 2 25-hour-a-week secretary/receptionist is just not there. We 3 don't believe in using the public's money to pay for a 4 position that's not being properly utilized, so we've changed 5 that. In the beginning of 2012, we'll essentially have 6 someone to cover the office during the lunch hour. Overall, 7 our employee cost, even with increases in health care, will 8 go down by $30,000 from last year's budget, but effectively, 9 the real cost decrease will be about $14,000 from last year. 10 There is an increase in the deputy director's 11 income. That's based on a couple things. One of them's 12 based on a study we did through Workforce Solutions on his 13 skill set, which still, after this increase, will put him 14 $9,000 below the average skill set for someone filling that 15 position in Kerrville. I have that study here. But the most 16 important reason why we're doing that is because part of the 17 installation of last year's new call center gave us an option 18 of either contracting with someone from outside of Kerrville 19 to do what we call Tier 1 maintenance and troubleshooting, or 20 training one of our own people, and we opted to train our 21 assistant director to do that task, so he's 24-by-7 on call 22 to do Tier 1 maintenance and repair of that equipment. As a 23 matter of fact, this last week he was here from 12:30 until 24 about 4:00 in the morning working on a problem in the system. 25 So, to compensate him for this additional work, we decided to 8-22-11 19 1 bump his salary from $45,000 to $48,000. 2 We're also planning for next year -- and some of 3 you may or may not be aware; we have contracted with a 4 company that flies over the county and does high resolution 5 aerial photography. They're called Pictometry. We did this 6 three years ago; we're going to be doing that again in 2012. 7 It provides a really valuable tool for our dispatchers to be 8 able to pinpoint the location of a call on the map side of 9 their system, and the cost of that is about $60,000, which 10 we're -- if all the budgets get approved, we're going to 11 share that cost with KPUB, KCAD, Kerr County, and ourselves. 12 It's really a valuable tool. That, in essence, is our 13 budget, and I'm glad to answer any questions any of y'all 14 have. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say, your 16 leadership -- you guys are doing a tremendous job over there, 17 and I think it also is a reflection on our two board members 18 that this Court has appointed, that -- and they have 19 repeatedly renewed up to serve over there in that capacity, 20 and do a tremendous job. I can't remember one of them's 21 name, but -- 22 MR. AMERINE: Ron Vick and Hugh Jons. Hugh Jons. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jons, yeah. 24 MR. AMERINE: Yeah, Hugh Jons is a double hit for 25 us, because not only is he a great board member, but he's 8-22-11 20 1 also a trained lawyer, so we get free legal advice having him 2 on our board. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, anyway, thank you. Let 4 me ask you a question. 5 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like we talked about 7 this last year, but I can't remember what the outcome was of 8 the satellite cell phone issue that you had been working on 9 for a number of years. 10 MR. AMERINE: We're still working on that. We 11 actually brought in three -- I won't call them higher-ups, 12 but people from San Angelo, from West Central Wireless, to 13 talk about wireless accuracy. Is that what you're talking 14 about? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, mm-hmm. 16 MR. AMERINE: And there is -- there's two parts to 17 that. One of them's technology, and limitation based on 18 number of cell towers you have in any given area, and the 19 further away from Kerrville you get, you have fewer antennas, 20 so you get less accuracy. And, you know, it's a message that 21 we try to get out to the public, is that a lot of folks are 22 giving up their traditional phone service for wireless, 23 thinking that they're covered. Well, you are. When you dial 24 911, you'll reach our call center. But the accuracy, we've 25 found, especially in the west and eastern extremes of Kerr 8-22-11 21 1 County, can be as far as 3,000 to 5,000 feet off. And that's 2 useless. I mean, truly, you know, in town the accuracies are 3 usually in the tens of feet, not the thousands of feet. But 4 when you're out in the country especially, you're a hunter or 5 you're out in your field working, and you're 3,000 -- 3,000 6 to 5,000 feet off on that accuracy that's being provided to 7 the dispatchers, it's not going to be useful. And so we're 8 working with them to try to find a solution for that problem. 9 And there are other phone companies that are 10 starting to have the same issues that have come into our 11 area, like T-Mobile. It's not just our local phone company; 12 it's anybody who comes into this region. With the low 13 density of towers that are in the extremes of our county, 14 you're going to have those accuracy issues. So, we're going 15 to do some extensive testing to try to see if we can help 16 these companies find a way to provide us better accuracy, as 17 well as the F.C.C. is looking at this accuracy issue, because 18 it is a public safety issue. They're trying to find some way 19 to help them, whether it's through grants or newer 20 technology, to find a way to get that accuracy here. Well, 21 they're working on it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's worth the 23 effort. 24 MR. AMERINE: I do too. I do too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for your work. 8-22-11 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill? 2 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I still see, as I drive around, 4 people without signs. 5 MR. AMERINE: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know what the 7 percentage is, how many signs we have now. But my question 8 is, is there any plan, or do you think it's even useful to 9 try to push -- go one more step and try to get people to get 10 address signs up? 11 MR. AMERINE: Yeah, I do. You know, signage is 12 probably the one thing that people don't think about. I 13 mean, people go to the trouble of coming in and getting their 14 property -- if you buy a piece of property, they'll get an 15 address -- urban-style address with a house number and a 16 street name. A lot of folks will even come in and get their 17 ranch roads named, but they won't sign any of it. They won't 18 put a road sign up and they won't put a house number up. And 19 even though our 911 system, especially traditional phone 20 service, pinpoints the location of the house on that map -- 21 and that map is -- like I said, it's an aircraft that flies 22 over, high resolution, 6 inches, that, you know, it is just 23 really -- you can see the roofline, see the shadow from the 24 vehicle. When I have the actual responder driving out to 25 that location, especially if it's at night or in bad 8-22-11 23 1 conditions, they don't see the signage; they don't know 2 they've found the property, and they end up going 3 door-to-door. You can ask your -- one of your public safety 4 officials in here right now. A lot of these officers or EMS 5 folks end up going door-to-door, and those minutes count. 6 And so it's really cheap for folks to come in, $5 to put that 7 sign out on their gate, on a post at their driveway, 8 whatever, so that there's that absolute confidence in the -- 9 in the responder that he's found the property. So, yeah, I 10 think it's worthwhile, sir, to do that, to get that word out 11 again. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Amerine, I want to thank you for 13 your management skills. It seems that every time you get a 14 new challenge because of various circumstances that creates a 15 new cost for you, you figure out a way to cover that, and 16 still manage to pretty well keep a budget in line, and I 17 really appreciate that. 18 MR. AMERINE: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I know the citizens do also, or at 20 least they should. It's their money, and we appreciate you 21 looking out for it as well as you do. 22 MR. AMERINE: I appreciate it. Of course, I don't 23 want to make any promises. We'll see how 2012 goes. I had a 24 comment at the City Council of Kerrville meeting from a 25 citizen who asked me, "Why is it that when you cut your tax 8-22-11 24 1 rates for 911, that it's always the business rates that 2 you're cutting?" Because we haven't cut residential 911 3 rates since 2007. And I think we're going to be able to cut 4 it across the board next year. The law allows us to keep a 5 reasonable reserve, which we have currently, even after 6 putting our new call center in last year, so we'll look at 7 cutting residential and business rates again next year. 8 We're trying to get to a place where we're bringing in just 9 enough revenue in to do the job. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds good. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Amerine? 13 MR. AMERINE: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to vote to approve 15 it? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 20 the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in favor, 21 signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 8-22-11 25 1 MR. AMERINE: See y'all next year. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Bill. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 5, if we might; to 5 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 6 County Clerk's Records Management and Records Archival 7 Written Plan in accordance with Subchapter C, Chapter 262, 8 Local Government Code. This was the matter we just had the 9 public hearing on a few moments ago. 10 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And this is once a 11 year that we have to do the Records Archival Written Plan and 12 the public hearing, and the only thing we're going to do this 13 year is pay the third and final payment on our contract that 14 we have. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 7, to 24 consider, discuss, take appropriate action for Maintenance to 25 go out for HVAC bids. Mr. Bollier, do you wish to expand 8-22-11 26 1 that item for your other essential maintenance services for 2 which licensure is required? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So let's pass this one now? 5 MR. BOLLIER: We can wait until next -- next agenda 6 and do them all at the same time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, very good. Let's go to 8 Item 8; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 9 accept Les Huff's retirement request, move current employee 10 to supervisor position, and hire for opening. Ms. Bolin? 11 MS. BOLIN: I'm back before you gentlemen, as you 12 requested, to try to see if it's okay to hire somebody since 13 Les is leaving. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is going to be an entry 15 level person? 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's going to be net 18 savings overall to your budget from him? 19 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm, $2,932. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't say anything. 22 (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Are you fixing to? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 8-22-11 27 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I will second that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 3 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 4 motion? Commissioner Oehler, I'll give you first shot at it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I'm not going to say 6 anything. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 8 comment? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 13 MS. BOLIN: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 10, if we might; to 15 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on request from 16 Friends of Center Point to use Lions Park for upcoming 17 fundraising and public relations events scheduled for 18 Saturday -- Saturdays, September 3rd and 17th. Friends of 19 Center Point organization requests this to assist park 20 improvement projects and community awareness for use of the 21 park. Commissioner Overby? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, Commissioners, I had 23 this on the agenda item today. Of course, the Friends of 24 Center Point Cem -- I was going to say "cemetery" for a 25 second; sorry about that. It's the old business I used to be 8-22-11 28 1 in. But the Friends of Center Point organization, of course, 2 has been organized this past year, and they've been doing a 3 lot of things and trying to help do things, enhance the park 4 use in Center Point. They have a couple of dates that they 5 have scheduled that they're trying to bring awareness to the 6 use of the park. Obviously, a little rain in our area would 7 do a lot to beautify our parks, but they're doing a lot right 8 now and trying to raise some funds. I do know that some of 9 the plans that they are trying to do is doing some playground 10 equipment, some signage and those type of things. So, we -- 11 they have two dates that are set that they're trying to do 12 some things in the park, and I'd like to have -- I think 13 Joel's here to make a couple of comments on that. But I'd 14 just like to have approval for those days to kind of be set 15 aside, of course, for use of the park on those days for them 16 to do those events, to help with those efforts. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Gonzales? 18 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir. Joel Gonzales, 361 19 Stoneleigh Road. I also have this for Ms. Pieper. It's -- 20 that right there is just a little bit of what we've been 21 doing and starting to do. But first of all, I'd like to 22 thank Rusty, you know for -- for sending the trash guys out 23 there. They keep the park clean, you know. Well, you 24 know -- where are you? 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Tim. 8-22-11 29 1 MR. GONZALES: Okay, Tim. Those guys. We do 2 appreciate that. And since the -- I'll just give you a brief 3 report. Since the enhancement of the park, you know, people 4 are respecting that little park more and more. You go to 5 that park -- last year, before the organization took over -- 6 not took over the park, but got together, you could go out 7 there and find beer bottles and stuff like that. You can't 8 do that no more. You can't find those bottles out there no 9 more. You can still find trash, which I go out there on 10 Sundays and pick up in the evenings, or Saturdays and pick 11 up. And it's funny how people can't read signs, and we got 12 signage out there, bilingual, you know. They say hey, your 13 park, your trash. Pick it up. You know, and we've got a 14 trash barrel right there, and it just doesn't make it to 15 right there. And we got it bilingual, too. Su parque, su 16 basura, le van te no. So, we -- we've done that, you know, 17 just to let you guys know, if y'all go by the park there, you 18 can't -- you know. Well, I'm trying to do Arabian, maybe 19 Chinese, something like that. (Laughter.) 20 But the park has really changed, and we have gotten 21 comments. I'd like to read something real quick that I found 22 in the archives. Here, Item 29, consider and discuss park in 23 Center Point. The park was given to Kerr County in 1955. 24 Kerr County has been using this area for stockpiling gravel 25 and dirt. The -- the park was -- it has been donated; some 8-22-11 30 1 equipment has been donated for the kids to use on the 2 concrete slab, and at this time they can't use it with the 3 gravel and dirt there. Road and Bridge will go clean the 4 area up and burn the brush. And possibly -- I believe they 5 put some bad words in there, 'cause it's blacked out, and 6 then "clean." I don't know what date this came from, but 7 that was -- that's in the archives somewhere. It's Volume 8 249 somewhere. And then there is another one. This is dated 9 29th November 25 -- I mean November of '95. A committee of 10 two or three persons from Center Point desire to get on the 11 earliest Commissioners Court itinerary after 4 December '95. 12 The subject is Lions Park at Center Point Dam and concerns of 13 this matter. The park is on Kerr County property and in part 14 used by Kerr County. We want to resolve the County's 15 responsibility and Center Point's responsibility in the 16 maintenance and management of the park, and we want to 17 discuss the legal ramifications of liability therewith. 18 Since these are old, and we have just barely gotten 19 together -- and I want to thank also Commissioner Overby. He 20 has really moved for that park, you know, and, of course, 21 with y'all's approval. It has been a -- a change. And with 22 the Friends of Center Point, we are changing that little 23 park, and we want to do more in our area, Commissioners. We 24 have nowhere where kids can go and play on a gym, you know, 25 get them out of thing -- out of the -- after school or 8-22-11 31 1 anything like that, or even during the summer there. We have 2 nothing like that. We don't -- we don't have a playground. 3 Yes, it's in a floodplain zone, and as I said last time, you 4 know, St. Louis is getting rebuilt. And -- and we are going 5 to be in the flood forever, but in that area, it's -- hardly 6 ever does it reach to that top point. And I've been there 7 for 20-something years, and I've never seen it, except when 8 we have the big floods, to reach there. So, we want -- as 9 Friends of Center Point, we want to pitch in and help the 10 County, and ask the County to help us to put in a playground, 11 volleyball courts for this next summer coming in. We want to 12 enhance our place. 13 One of the Texas monthly magazines -- I'm still 14 looking into that -- Texas Highways voted us number two best 15 swimming spot in Texas. Number two. And this was before the 16 park had even -- to where you could drive. I want to be 17 number one, 'cause I take it personally. I want to be number 18 one of Center Point, to where the people can come. And I 19 have documents where people have signed on -- you know, where 20 they come in out of state and say, "Hey, this is a great 21 place." Well, we'd like to make Center Point what it used to 22 be, a striving little place. And the park is something we 23 can offer to -- to everyone. And we want you guys to help us 24 out. We want the -- you know, it has been abused. That 25 little park has been abused over and over and over, and we 8-22-11 32 1 want y'all's help as much as we can. 2 I have been here and y'all have given money to -- 3 to the KerrFest, to other areas. We just want a little bit 4 of that money, because the people that talk to me, they ask 5 me -- now, of course, I'm not in y'all's chairs -- where does 6 our money go to? That this is supposed to go to that park, 7 if it is a park. Where is our money going to? Of course, 8 they read the paper and they see Flat Rock, they see Ingram 9 getting lots of money, but we have zero. And I can pull 10 that up; forms and paperwork is in the archives that zero 11 money has been spent on our park. Again, going back to 12 things on our survey, you know, you have a business, sir. 13 You want to know that property line, where it's at, before 14 you start working on that property. Well, we would like to 15 have our property line -- we have a piece of paper that -- I 16 didn't bring it today, but it's a hand-drawn property line. 17 We don't want that. We want -- we need to know specifically 18 where that property line is so we can make plans to utilize 19 that property, that park that belongs to us, that is so 20 beautiful that it came in number two. I believe it's on the 21 Texas Highways, number two. 22 We want to make it number one. We want to make it 23 number one, so everything that we can get from you guys, any 24 type of help that we can get from you guys to improve our 25 little park, we want it and we need it. And we want to raise 8-22-11 33 1 money, so that way people will know that there is a group out 2 there -- I just read a -- people in the past did not 3 accomplish what little bit Commissioner Overby has done, and 4 what Friends of Center Point are trying to do -- not trying; 5 we are going to do it, one way or another. And we want to 6 enhance our little park and Center Point, period. I thank 7 y'all. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about these dates? 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The 3rd and 17th. I'd just 11 like to, just so we have -- when we have had events down at 12 Flat Rock Park for veterans' programs and stuff, we know we 13 can't close the park. 14 MR. GONZALES: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But what we would like to do 16 is approve those two dates for you folks to do some 17 fundraising. I think you're doing a hot dog cookout or 18 something? 19 MR. GONZALES: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's the main thing, is to 21 make sure we've approved those two dates for those two 22 designated Saturdays to help with their raising funds those 23 days. So, I'll make a motion for those two dates. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. That's 25 great. 8-22-11 34 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 2 authorize use of the park for those two dates, that being 3 nonexclusive use, of course. 4 MR. GONZALES: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? All in 6 favor -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have -- I just have 8 one quick question. We have spent zero money down there? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, previous years. And 10 his -- and Joel's comments are, if you look back at several 11 years -- I've seen the documentation. It's in the park in 12 Center Point, there's a flat record in there -- I know that 13 Jeannie can -- we've looked at those numbers. Very little 14 money's been spent in Center Point. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very little? 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very little. In fact, over 17 10 years, I think it's been zero. 18 MR. GONZALES: It's been zero in 10 years. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A few months ago, we 20 didn't spend -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This year, we have. Let's 22 clarify that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm trying to 24 do. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I also want to clarify, we 8-22-11 35 1 just recently put electricity -- 2 MR. GONZALES: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- back into the park. And 4 we've had some church activities and some functions with some 5 of the fundraising coming up. That is something that needs 6 to be in the park, and we've got electricity back in the 7 park. We control the box. 8 MR. GONZALES: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We open it up when there's 10 scheduled events so folks can use it, so we're not paying 11 electricity for anybody that wants to show up at the park. 12 MR. GONZALES: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But we're trying to do things 14 a little bit. I think playground areas and those things are 15 -- those are things that we need to get done, and I 16 appreciate you coming and sharing with us. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think it's fair to 18 say that the taxpayers have done zero. That's not a fair 19 thing to say about taxpayers. 20 MR. GONZALES: Okay, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 22 MR. GONZALES: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 25 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8-22-11 36 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 5 Item 12; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 6 approve the SAVNS maintenance grant contract between the 7 Office of the Attorney General and Kerr County for fiscal 8 year -- fiscal year 2012. Sheriff? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just our renewal of 10 our VINE grant, the Victim Instant Notification Everyday, 11 where it's -- victims of crime can register and be 12 automatically notified of any changes in their -- in the 13 perpetrator's status, whether he's in prison or here locally 14 in our jails or anything. We've had it for a number of 15 years. Nothing changes. It's just -- the Attorney General's 16 office actually pays for it all. We just keep the grant 17 going, so it's a tool used for the victims. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-22-11 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 2 Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 3 concerning the plan of action for moving forward with 4 reference to minimum security facility. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had advised y'all last week 6 we put this on the agenda. Mr. Lewis was going to try and be 7 back. I just need some direction on where we go from here, 8 whether we can put a committee of maybe a Commissioner or two 9 on it, and sit down with Peter Lewis and get some basic ideas 10 and drawings, and with the Jail Commission, because it's all 11 going to have to be approved through Jail Commission before 12 we really even go out for bids on the minimum security 13 facility. As of today, just to give you an idea, we have a 14 total of 169 inmates; 140 males, 29 females in custody, and 15 of those, the minimum security that we could move out into 16 those facilities, this morning we had 15 females that are 17 classified as minimum security. That would just about cut in 18 half what we have inside our maximum jail. And we have a 19 total of 55 males that are minimum security, that we could 20 fill up one of those facilities, and that would leave our 21 maximum security jail for what it's truly meant to be. And 22 this is just something I think if we're going to try and make 23 that jail last a number of years, up to 10 years or so, we 24 really need to look at before we go to spending 60,000 25 minimum a bed on a maximum security facility expansion. 8-22-11 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, essentially, of all those 2 men on the minimum security, you could fill up the 48-bed 3 male minimum security facility? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I could. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And also, having that much 6 additional room in your medium and high security area, you 7 might be able to generate a little revenue from outside the 8 county for those counties needing space to house their 9 prisoners? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think for several years -- 11 and like when I first took office, I think for several years, 12 until the population grows, we can definitely expand that. 13 Now, Bandera's built a jail since then. Fredericksburg looks 14 like they're going to build a jail. But you take counties 15 like Edwards over at Rocksprings, Junction, Mason, Menard, 16 McCullough, all in that area. Yes, I think we can definitely 17 help those out, because they do ask from time to time, 18 especially on females. They don't have female beds in their 19 little, bitty jails. And I think we could -- we could very 20 well assist them and help ourselves in taking care of some of 21 those costs. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I definitely think it needs 23 to be explored. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see another 8-22-11 39 1 alternative that is affordable any time soon. Anything we 2 can do to extend the life of that maximum security facility 3 we have out there, we know that that cost is astronomical, 4 and if we -- that will take a vote of the taxpayers to -- or 5 bonds to expand that thing, 'cause you're talking lots of 6 dollars. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is something that is -- 9 it is a good alternative, I believe, to look into. And, you 10 know, the staffing cost is going to be the big cost. Bricks 11 and mortar's not much, but -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I think if we sit 13 down with an architect and with the Jail Commission, because 14 we got the blueprints from the one Judge Tinley and Buster 15 and my chief and Jail Administrator went and visited. 16 There's a couple of differences in those blueprints from the 17 facility they looked at compared to what jail standards now 18 requires. They had, I think, you know, two toilets and 19 things like that in each side, where jail standards, even a 20 minimum, require one per eight inmates, and you had 24 21 inmates with two. So, I don't -- I really need to sit down 22 with those people, but I need to be able to do it with an 23 architect to design it to where it goes -- the two facilities 24 would go right off the back of the jail, wouldn't hamper the 25 security of our maximum security facility at all, but make it 8-22-11 40 1 to where it takes the least number of employees out there in 2 those facilities to run them. 3 And that would be a lot of it, would be the -- the 4 fencing, and the razor wire fence around it, 'cause minimum 5 is minimum. Because if you have that, and those push-bar 6 doors that they have on them that you can just let the 7 inmates out on, you don't have to have employees running them 8 direct, 'cause they have access to outside in that fenced-in 9 area. And these are minimum security inmates, so you can 10 slow that. If we added a washer and dryer on each side, 11 okay, or two of them, then you have a lot less employee 12 involvement, because the inmates can do their own washing, 13 'cause they're minimum security. So, I think there's some 14 ways we can -- we can use it and build it to where it will be 15 more user-friendly, with the security cameras in it more than 16 personnel sitting back there, things like that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, I know that the -- the 18 traditional jail or maximum security jail takes specialized 19 architects, essentially, to do those. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this something where we need 22 a specialized architect that understands the rules from -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- jail standards, or something 25 that's pretty similar? 8-22-11 41 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On minimum security, looking 2 at it, looking at the Jail Commission's requirements, minimum 3 security is built of conventional construction as a home, 4 sheetrock and everything else. You've got a few requirements 5 in there as to the -- the square footage and the -- you know, 6 like how many showers and restrooms and things like that. 7 Otherwise, you don't. And I don't see any reason at all that 8 a local architect can't design and build that. This thing's 9 built on pier and beam to where it can be moved out later if 10 you ever had to expand onto the maximum, so you can move it 11 back or whatever farther out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a big building, nothing 13 fancy in it at all. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just noticing in the jail 15 standards that they wanted us to use a special architect. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think if we're looking at 17 the maximum security, no ifs, ands, or buts. But on minimum 18 security, all we've got to do is send in the plans to the 19 Jail Commission. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't think they'd have 22 any problem. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you have money in your 24 budget for this? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's in your budget. 8-22-11 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, would it not be a possible 2 option -- I know there are companies that -- that build 3 modular type units for various governmental purposes that 4 presumably are in compliance with whatever the current jail 5 standards are. Could you find one or more of those to see 6 what they would have to offer as an option? That, of course, 7 would -- would be probably at least an initially no-cost 8 option. And then from there, possibly, if there were 9 refinement necessary, to engage an architect or engineer in 10 order to upgrade those to our requirements. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a possibility, and I 12 can do some checking. I'd still like to have one or two 13 Commissioners involved in that with us, with my jail staff, 14 because I just -- when it comes to doing this, I just really 15 don't know whether we still need a local architect to work 16 with those people or whether those type of companies can come 17 in with their own architects and help design it. You know, 18 at this point, I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you can look into 20 that, because I know from past experience being on school 21 boards in Ingram for a long time, we built a lot of portable 22 buildings, and they design those things any way you want 23 them, and they build them on-site, and I guarantee it's fast. 24 They'll be in and out of there before you can hardly think 25 you're started. 8-22-11 43 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, of course, contacting one 2 of those and working with one right off the bat, where are we 3 on the bidding process? And I've already worked with one. 4 I've got a bidding issue. So, I just don't know if it's 5 better to -- to kind of come up with a basic idea with a 6 local architect. Then we can extend it out even to those 7 companies for the -- the bidding process. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are multiple -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Have to have some kind of 10 basic since we've got to be careful on the bidding. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are multiple companies 12 that do that kind of work. And, of course, it would have to 13 be bid, but -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Getting -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there may be some that are 16 even on Buy Board. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: May be. That would be a -- 18 that would be another option to look at. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, I think I've seen at least 20 one that's on Buy Board. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. See, I don't know on 22 that. Now, when it comes to changing all the fencing and 23 doing the fencing correctly, yes, I have no problem. I can 24 get that through T.D.C. and we can work it, but I -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me that -- I don't 8-22-11 44 1 know if it's -- if this lends itself to design-to-build 2 format for bidding, but it seems that we almost need to get 3 -- it'd be nice if we get -- hire someone to see us through 4 the process. And right now, our first step is -- someone 5 that has more expertise than anyone on this Court. We can 6 kind of do part of it, but settle on the process we're going 7 to use to get it done, and then if we're going to -- if you 8 do the design-to-build, that gives you some flexibility, I 9 think, to, you know, do an RFQ, figure out who we want to 10 use, and then work with them to get something built, whether 11 it's conventional or modular. Or we need -- we're at a point 12 we need a consultant of some sort, trying to figure out -- 13 rather than spending a consulting fee, make a commitment if 14 we're going to go forward with this as to the process we're 15 going to use, and then I think you ought to check the Buy 16 Board thing, number one, and see where that leads you, and 17 then go from there to what you just basically -- what you 18 just said about, you know, finding a designer, somebody to 19 work with you to bring you through the process. 'Cause I do 20 think you need to explore it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure that jail standards as to 22 these types of units -- and as you said, this is not 23 specialized construction. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: They probably have a current listing 8-22-11 45 1 of those that are on state contract or Buy Board. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know if they have one 3 on Buy Board, 'cause they try and stay out of that part of 4 it. When you go to get recommendations from them, they're 5 going to give you everybody that they have, including their 6 maximum security, and that's what most of them are going to 7 want to, of course, try and build, is more of a maximum 8 security permanent fixture. I'm talking pier and beam, and 9 building it that way. I can -- you know, it never hurts to 10 make some phone calls and see what we can come up with and -- 11 and check with Buy Board or some of the state bid stuff, see 12 if there's somebody. You know, I just feel we need -- we 13 need some expertise in it, and I'm not it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd suggest that you report 15 back next meeting after do you the first part of this, and we 16 just kind of take a slow process of moving forward. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Contact them first and see 18 where we go? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Call them. You might contact 20 some of our local contractors and -- Lowe or Huser or Zuber, 21 whoever, and see if they'd be willing to do a design-to-build 22 using modular construction, rather than -- you know, I mean, 23 'cause there's going to be electrical; still going to be some 24 things we'll need local contractors for, and see if that's 25 even something that they would -- any of our local 8-22-11 46 1 contractors would be willing to do. It just seems that we 2 need to, early on, rather than hire consultants and all that 3 stuff, figure out who we're going to use and start going 4 forward. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause then there are some 6 modifications that need to be done to the -- the two exit 7 doors on the current maximum security, putting in a safety 8 vestibule. And that's an uphill walk there -- you know, 9 walkway that would go up to both of these, so it's not just 10 that. It's -- it's some groundwork and some modifications 11 also that pass the standards to our current facility, adding 12 that onto that building itself, and then the walkways and 13 everything going to it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bottom line is, there's some 15 bad people walking around on the streets, and that's your 16 job, to get them off the streets and protect all of us. And 17 that's the bottom line of this whole thing, and I think that 18 we need to move -- we've got to move forward with it. And 19 the facility that we saw is -- I think it's terrific. It's 20 an excellent way -- route to go. Your plan is an excellent 21 way to do it. Got to be a way to do it that's simple. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The facility we saw was not 23 complicated. It was -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not complicated at all. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And, actually, the staffing levels, 8-22-11 47 1 there would be a lesser staffing level than what -- what you 2 utilize in your current facility. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. They had, I believe, 4 in that one -- I didn't go see it with y'all; I was tied up, 5 but in that one they had one jailer in that facility, so 6 you're talking five jailers per facility, okay. And that's 7 depending on the number of inmates you put in it at the time, 8 you know. And -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you use them -- you know, 11 utilize it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't get less than one. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Really can't. But what I'm 14 saying is, until we get -- you know, you may not move much 15 out. I may be able to sacrifice one at times in there, 16 unless they're out in the yard, 'cause I have a garden, you 17 know, officer out there now that could suffice. So, there's 18 a lot of different ways to try and look at the staffing and 19 come in at the lowest possible, but still taking care of the 20 security of the facility and the safety of my officers. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to bring it 23 back? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You want me to contact, like, 25 Buy Board, see what I can come up with? I have no problem. 8-22-11 48 1 Just give me some guidelines; I'll see what I can kind of -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, I think one of the 3 keys is the fencing outside the building itself to hold 4 everybody in. But, you know, do you have -- is it -- I mean, 5 you know, all those people -- fencing people -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The fencing is no problem at 7 all. I can get T.D.C. to come up; we can draw the plans up. 8 I need to know exactly where our walkways are going to be and 9 where the buildings are going to be situated, how they would 10 be turned enough off the side of the two buildings coming out 11 the back. So, do y'all want to assign -- or just my liaison 12 to work with us, or how -- do you want to have somebody on 13 the Court involved in this -- this initial step, or you just 14 want me to bring it back? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think bring it back at this 16 point, Rusty, and then -- and just talk about a couple 17 different options of ways to go forward. You may -- like I 18 say, design-to-build with local contractors may work. See 19 what kind of modular construction is out there, 'cause it 20 seems to me we're almost -- the next step's going to almost 21 be an RFQ of some sort. I don't know that we can get too far 22 down the road without hiring an expert to get us through 23 here. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You almost have to have some 25 kind of design, floor plan of what you're going to build. 8-22-11 49 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I can't contact, 2 really, somebody with a detailed plan until we go out for the 3 RFQ's or the RFP's. I'm afraid to get ahold of one 4 contractor and say, "Come help me design this." 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not saying that. I'm 6 saying contact them, and -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or architect. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying we contact two or 9 three, Huser or Lowe, whoever -- Zuber, whoever. Just say, 10 "Will y'all consider doing a modular construction?" Would 11 they do that? I mean, I've never known that they do. See if 12 they're willing to do something like that, because if you're 13 going to go with a modular route, let's explore that route, 14 you know. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think the modular 16 route is definitely the way to go. I think from what they 17 see -- you know, to me, that's not a -- not a decision that I 18 need to ask them. You know, I just need to -- to kind of 19 have an idea or get a good idea on how it's going to look, 20 and how much -- what kind of room we have to have there. 21 Then I can contact them and say, "Are y'all willing to do 22 something like..." But it's -- I can't really involve them 23 or anybody else until we get that basic -- you know. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can just -- see, if 25 you do a design-to-build, they do the design work and they 8-22-11 50 1 will hire the architect, and we hire one person. We don't 2 hire an architect. We're hiring the company to do the 3 project. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if do I the 5 design-to-build, I still got to send out the RFQ's, don't I, 6 to get -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do the RFQ for the 8 design-to-build, as I understand. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't contact just one. So, 10 it's just -- I don't know. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me dig up -- like I say, I think 12 there's at least one that I've seen that's on Buy Board. 13 That will give you a start, and maybe it will get some more. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll make sure we get it back 15 on next time's agenda, come up with something. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 14; to, 18 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on nomination of 19 -- of new Airport Board member, Ed Livermore. I put this on 20 the agenda. The -- the joint Airport Board has put forth a 21 nomination of Mr. Ed Livermore to -- to fill a vacancy on the 22 Airport Board. The procedure is that the board proposes a 23 nominee to fill that vacancy. The -- the City and the County 24 each have an opportunity to act on that, either by declining 25 to accept that individual, in which case there will be a new 8-22-11 51 1 nominee put forward by the board, or we can accept this 2 nominee from the County standpoint and move forward. I 3 suspect that everyone's had an opportunity to review 4 Mr. Livermore's background and information and his business 5 experience or activities in aviation and so forth. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very impressive. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very much so. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm ready to move forward. I 9 move we -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- approve Ed Livermore. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of Ed Livermore to the joint Airport Board. Further 15 question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be a big asset. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yep. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I did want to point 25 out one thing that this gentleman did. Now, where did I see 8-22-11 52 1 that? He was a commander of -- a military commander -- oh, 2 company commander, 24th Infantry Division in Germany. That's 3 -- to me, that's more important than flying airplanes out 4 there. I mean, between -- having to work for the County and 5 the City, that's going to come in handy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, good background. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great background. That's 8 all I had to say about that, too. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Certainly didn't want to 10 leave that out, did we? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I didn't. It's 12 important. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a 10 o'clock timed item, 14 that being consider and discuss, take appropriate action on 15 Alamo Area Council of Governments Alamo Agency Report on 16 Aging for Kerr County. The presentation was scheduled to be 17 given by Alamo Aging Director Gloria Vasquez and folks on 18 aging issues impacting Kerr County. I saw Ms. Doerries here, 19 I assume for that particular item. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And Tina. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And Ms. Tina Woods is here. 22 MS. DOERRIES: Tina's here, but I do not see -- is 23 she here? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we didn't vote. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Hang on a second. 8-22-11 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, hold the phone. I've been 2 reminded that we did not vote on Item 14. We had a motion 3 and a second, and opportunity to discuss. Let me go back to 4 Item 14 on the Airport Board member. All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now we're 10 back on 10. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge -- and Patrice and 12 Tina, glad you're here today. I did receive a call shortly 13 after 8 o'clock this morning from Ms. Vasquez. A little car 14 issue is going on in San Antonio today, and rather than 15 trying to have her push to get up here, she was kind of -- 16 kind of flabbergasted a little bit, and I told her just wait 17 and let's do it on the 12th of September, so she will be here 18 to do that presentation at that time. But I thank both of 19 you for being here, and we look forward to hearing her report 20 on Kerr County aging issues September 12th. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Both of you are welcome to stay, 22 though. 23 MS. DOERRIES: I'll be back. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure you'll find it exciting. 25 MR. ODOM: Educating. 8-22-11 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to Item 15; to 2 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on participation 3 in a road paving program with the City of Ingram. I put this 4 on the agenda as a result of a communication that I received 5 from Mr. James Salter, the mayor of the City of Ingram. 6 Commissioner Oehler, you also have expressed an interest in 7 this. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me turn it over to you at this 10 point. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I went by and visited 12 with Mayor Salter here a while back at his shop, and he said 13 that he was going to bring this request forward. City of 14 Ingram is planning on doing some street improvements in the 15 future, and they -- they would like to see if they could work 16 out a deal with the County to do some of the work of 17 upgrading their streets. And so that's kind of where we are. 18 And I think, you know, this issue is going to come forward 19 later in the day on City of Kerrville as well, and this is a 20 good opportunity, I think, for us to discuss it and decide, 21 you know, how -- kind of how -- how the rates will apply to 22 the work to be done, and who pays for what and that sort of 23 thing. But, anyway, James Salter, mayor of Ingram. 24 MR. SALTER: Judge, Commissioners, thank you for 25 having me here. It's like old home week, in all honesty. I 8-22-11 55 1 represent the citizens of Ingram. We have started our 2 wastewater collection project. We have finished Phase I; 3 we're now getting ready to start Phase II. We have numerous 4 roads that are in dire need of repair and repaving. This 5 came to us mainly because of Derringer Lane, which the fire 6 department has informed us that it is practically impossible 7 to get on the road and drive on it now. They are telling me 8 that when we do have bad weather -- rain, it will be 9 impossible. We also have other roads -- Third Street, Fourth 10 Street, Woodland -- that, you know, are major thoroughfares 11 for children to go to school; moms and dads take them, that 12 are in horrible, bad repair because of our wastewater 13 project. And I am here to -- to ask for y'all's help. We 14 have a tank of oil -- how do I put this politely? The land 15 that we've been squatting on that y'all owned for quite some 16 time -- (Laughter.) We -- we have a large container of 17 emulsified oil that we would be glad to give to the County if 18 they can use it for that purpose. We have some funds in our 19 budget this year, which ends as of the end of September. We 20 also have funds in next year's budget for street work. We're 21 here just to see if we can get some help. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mayor Salter, the -- the general 23 methodology and the plan has been -- at least for what we've 24 done so far with City of Kerrville, is that any base repair 25 or other subsurface issues, the -- the City would be required 8-22-11 56 1 to get those resolved, and when it comes time for the 2 sealcoating to begin, the -- our crews would come in and do 3 that work. Traffic control and everything else other than 4 the actual lay-down of the -- of the emulsion and the -- and 5 the trap rock and so forth would be the responsibility of the 6 City. That's generally the way that we've been doing the 7 program. 8 MR. SALTER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Would the City of Ingram be in a 10 position to operate in that same way? 11 MR. SALTER: I'm afraid that I'd have to say no at 12 this time. We -- we probably don't have the funds to do 13 that. We budgeted $20,000 for this year for road repair. Is 14 there any way that the County could help us with that part 15 also? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what needs to be done 17 on these roads? I'm not sure if you know, or if Leonard's 18 maybe familiar with them, or Bruce. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, are they -- are they 21 currently paved roads? 22 MR. SALTER: You call them that. (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What year? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Many years ago. Many years 8-22-11 57 1 ago. 2 MR. SALTER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I would imagine that -- 4 we'd have to get Leonard to tell you for sure, but I would 5 imagine that you'd use the zipper on them and go back and 6 regrade, roll, and prepare it for sealcoat. These are not 7 long streets. You're not talking about a lot of mileage of 8 roads. You're talking about a small amount each year. You 9 know, Fourth Street probably is what, maybe 400 yards long? 10 MR. SALTER: At the most, Third and Fourth both. 11 Woodland would be the longest road. Derringer would be short 12 of that. Derringer might be 200 yards at the most. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 500 or 600 feet. 14 MR. SALTER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so you're talking about 16 real short stretches of road that need to be totally 17 reconstructed in order for them to be in on the -- and in 18 order to, I think, get a good estimate of what the cost might 19 be, you know, maybe Leonard could go and look those over and 20 give the City an idea of the -- what the cost would be if -- 21 if he were to do it. Where -- you know, so they would know 22 how much money to budget. They'd know how far they could go 23 with the street program every year. 24 MR. SALTER: That would be great. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I would 8-22-11 58 1 recommend. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good plan. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See where you are, and see 4 what kind of money you're going to have to prepare for in 5 order to redo those streets. 6 MR. SALTER: Exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be a whole lot 8 less -- if the County agrees to do it, it will be a whole lot 9 less than a contractor would charge. 10 MR. SALTER: Yes. Yes, we understand that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Way less. And -- you know, 12 and we want to do what we can, I think, to assist. But we 13 also have to recover, you know, actual costs. And that would 14 be my suggestion. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with 16 everything Bruce has said. I think step one is Leonard -- if 17 Leonard doesn't mind going out there and just evaluating the 18 thing, 'cause he's going to be able to just eyeball it and 19 tell you right off. My only concern is -- is that we're 20 dealing with government-owned property. 21 MR. SALTER: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There won't be any private 23 -- private property? 24 MR. SALTER: No, none of it's private. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So those would be my only 8-22-11 59 1 concerns. Other than that, I think it's a great deal. I 2 like this everybody helping each other thing. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really enjoy that. That's a 5 good -- those are good projects. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the way it should 7 work. I mean, we're dealing with the taxpayers' money, you 8 know. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody's paying taxes. 11 And if we can help, you know, assist and save and stretch 12 dollars, I think that's what we should do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all don't forget it when 14 it gets to my precinct, now. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yours is not much. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Your Phase II wastewater, 17 that's getting underway? 18 MR. SALTER: Yes, it is. In fact, two weeks ago 19 our City Administrator, Stan Neuse, met with -- I hate 20 getting older. (Laughter.) Met with the Texas Department of 21 Transportation -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mike Coward? 23 MR. SALTER: Mike Coward. Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're welcome. 25 MR. SALTER: And Mike brought up at that time that 8-22-11 60 1 TexDOT has a program going right now where they will give 2 excess material to county entities for the purpose of paving. 3 And I wanted to bring that to y'all's attention, poorly as I 4 did, but thank you. It is available. We can contact him and 5 see what they do have. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be interesting, to 7 see what they have that they would donate to us. 8 MR. SALTER: It would be. I wasn't in on that 9 meeting, but it seems as though they're talking about base 10 material more than anything else. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you what; I'll be 12 contacting him today after this meeting, now that I know that 13 there's some material out there that might be donated. We 14 can always use that if it's good -- if it's the right stuff 15 and good material. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we participated in that 17 program for a number of years. I've seen Mr. Odom write 18 letters and bring them by here for me to endorse, and to set 19 aside what they have in the way of surplus that -- that we're 20 able to get ahold of. 21 MR. SALTER: Well, if he needs somebody to go 22 damage a bunch of roads so you'd have extra excess, I know 23 people that can do that for you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MR. SALTER: Thank y'all. 8-22-11 61 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We ought to -- do we need a 2 motion on this, or just ask Leonard to please go out and kind 3 of do an evaluation? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you get that handled, Leonard? 5 MR. ODOM: I can do that. I'll have Kelly call to 6 get the streets, and we'll -- I'll have a chance to drive 7 them and look at them and see what -- what we can do to -- 8 you know, to make it work. Some of it may -- may be 9 level-ups. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 11 MR. ODOM: May work, if the ground is good. If 12 it's not, then that's a different -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Won't be much level-up on 14 some of them. 15 MR. ODOM: Any holes in the street you would be 16 able to identify? Somebody may be able -- 17 MR. SALTER: I'm certain we can find -- Howard 18 Jackson will probably have as good a feel as anybody. I 19 apologize for bringing that up. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's a character; I love 21 him. 22 MR. SALTER: He's unique. Let's just go with that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's unique. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think enough said. 25 MR. SALTER: Thank y'all. Appreciate it very much. 8-22-11 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Salter. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thanks for coming. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. We've got a 10:15 4 timed item, and we're about there now. Item 11 is a 5 presentation from Ray Watson regarding the Economic 6 Development Corporation. Mr. Watson? 7 MR. WATSON: Judge Tinley, Commissioners, it's a 8 pleasure to be in front of you again. Basically, we are 9 coming in front of you for the second time as our second 10 quarterly meeting to inform you kind of what we're doing and 11 the direction we're going. I have met with Guy on quite a 12 few meetings, and then also with Judge Tinley as he attends 13 our monthly meetings. And then also individually, Judge 14 Tinley and I have met twice on the concerns and needs of the 15 County as far as economic development goes. I wanted to give 16 you basically a list of some of the stuff that we're working 17 on and some of the areas that we're cogitating on, and then 18 also answer any questions that you have of me today. We are 19 going to close out our first fiscal year September 30th, 20 starting our second year as an organization October 1. And 21 we are in -- that will start our second year of the 22 three-year contractual agreement that the County, the City, 23 and E.I.C. entered into with this organization. And so, in 24 that -- in those agreements, we had a requirement to come and 25 give you a quarterly update, and that's kind of what this is. 8-22-11 63 1 The main thing that we are concentrating on right 2 now is looking at what the needs are and prioritizing those 3 needs. And I've met with Judge Tinley, as I stated. And 4 the -- the three main needs that he put forth to me was the 5 -- the student center out at the ag facility, and then the 6 next one was potable water and wastewater in east Kerr 7 County, and so those are some of the things that we've got 8 into our mix as far as our priority list goes. We've got 9 about 20 items that are on that priority list that we're 10 going to be voting on within the next month or two. In the 11 -- in the realm of things, one of the things that we're 12 mainly looking at is attainable housing. Not necessarily 13 low-end housing, but attainable housing in the $100,000 range 14 to $175,000 range, and looking at how we can deal with that. 15 We have been working with the university, Schreiner 16 University there on their property. We have met with their 17 officials, and also with the City of Kerrville officials to 18 see about the possibility of building housing on the site 19 there on 534, which is owned by both Schreiner and the City, 20 and doing some attainable housing for -- for that price range 21 there. 22 The next issue that we were working on is I've met 23 with Barry Hodkin on numerous occasions, with Mooney. They 24 have met with over 40 different companies, trying to 25 basically sell their product to those companies, to encourage 8-22-11 64 1 new facilities. We are currently working with a company out 2 of Germany that has also met with Barry, and that company is 3 looking at the possibility of -- of obtaining their 4 certificates and looking at reopening a smaller facility on 5 that site. That is in early stages. We'll be back to inform 6 you as -- if that goes forward or if something comes out of 7 that. The next thing that we have on here is, we are trying 8 to work with a couple of retail entities. We've got -- the 9 one that everybody knows about that's been going on for many 10 years, that Guy's worked many years as well, with the Target 11 facility. I met with two of the developers that are involved 12 with Target. We had meetings with them last week, and 13 hopefully something will get started back on that. 14 I think everybody, from a national standpoint, is 15 kind of waiting to see what's going to happen nationally 16 before they make any commitments. And so we're still working 17 with that, and we also have a small box that was brought to 18 me by Mr. Overby as well, and we're working on that with a 19 developer out of San Antonio, and so that's kind of retail. 20 We're also working with Mr. Brinkman on the Cailloux project. 21 They have named out quite a few restaurants and stuff that 22 they would like to see in their project downtown, and so 23 we're working with them to get them names and the contacts 24 made to hopefully get somebody into their facility. They're 25 going to have about an 8,000 square foot facility there that 8-22-11 65 1 they're looking for restaurant-type ownerships in that, and 2 it's going to be the property that actually faces Sidney 3 Baker. So, it's going to be interesting to see who we can 4 get to go in that location. 5 We have a couple of smaller projects that we'll 6 hopefully be announcing in the next couple of months, that -- 7 with smaller restaurants, and so hopefully those will be out 8 and available for you in the next couple months on that. One 9 of the things that we're working on for the future is we are 10 -- the Chamber's going to be hosting a 4B meeting in 11 September. It will be on September 15th or September 22nd. 12 That meeting will basically be to explain what 4B is, the 13 types of uses associated with 4B, and then basically to 14 educate the community on 4B tax and the availability, but 15 also to also show us as a community what are some of the 16 other opportunities to fund these types of projects that 17 we've been looking at. And that'll held on either the 15th 18 or 22nd; they have not nailed that date down yet. 19 We're looking -- we have finished our website. We 20 hope to go live with our work website and marketing material 21 within the next couple of weeks. We also are looking at the 22 possibility of building some spec facilities. One of the 23 major issues -- and Mr. Overby can attest to this -- is when 24 people come here looking for facilities, the one thing that 25 they want is basically a 12,000 to 20,000 square foot box for 8-22-11 66 1 them to work with, and we -- we don't have many of those. We 2 have one that's available right now, and that's the Bateman 3 building out at the airport facility, across from the 4 airport. And we are actually working with a company to 5 obtain that facility for that company, and so if that gets 6 taken off the market, we will not have anything. We visited 7 with some entities about the possibility of building some 8 spec facilities either out at the airport industrial park or 9 some -- locating other areas that we could do that with, and 10 so that's a major priority on my list, because I think that's 11 going to be one of the ways we're going to attract other 12 companies into the area. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who would fund -- how would 14 that be funded? 15 MR. WATSON: We don't know yet. That's part of the 16 -- that's part of the process, is figuring out the funding on 17 that. And so, you know, there's a lot of different ways to 18 fund that. In San Antonio, C.P.S. Energy does a lot of that 19 funding, and so, you know, their interest in funding is if 20 you bring the company in, they're going to get to sell 21 electricity to them. So, that's some of the areas that still 22 need to be dealt with. We need to look at funding, what size 23 of building you're going to build, how far out you're going 24 to build it, to what specifications and so on. But that's 25 one of the things that I think has got to happen to bring any 8-22-11 67 1 kind of new -- new business in. You've got to have something 2 to show them, because right now we have land, but that's 3 about all we have to show them. So -- and I think that 4 pretty much does it for -- for what I have. The -- the 5 housing is -- is interesting, because one of the things that 6 we have looked at is there is a lot of stock in lower -- 7 older houses in Kerr County, but there's not a whole lot of 8 stock in a -- basically, a $100,000 to $175,000 home to be 9 obtained, and so that's something we're really concentrating 10 on. 11 And I think one of the things that -- and 12 Commissioner Overby and Judge Tinley brought up the 13 wastewater and water -- potable water out in east Kerr 14 County. I think that's important to understand, because that 15 really is your most buildable land in the county, because of 16 the -- because of the terrain and the topography of that 17 land. And so I think it's -- it's, in my opinion, one of the 18 most important things that we need to do as a county, is to 19 get wastewater and water out to that area so that we can have 20 land to develop for the future. So, with that, I'll turn it 21 back over to you for questions. I'm trying to stay under my 22 10 minutes, so -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Watson -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't know we limited you to 10 25 minutes. 8-22-11 68 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't hear about that. 2 MR. WATSON: That's what you told me on the phone 3 the other day. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of 5 questions. You had mentioned the property out at the 6 airport. 7 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And used the word 9 "abatement" property. 10 MR. WATSON: No, the Bateman property. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 12 MR. WATSON: Bateman property. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. That was a name. 14 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I apologize. 16 MR. WATSON: When you're going down 27, it is the 17 large facility that's for sale on the right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, I understand. I 19 thought you used the word abatement. 20 MR. WATSON: No, we'd like to keep those taxes 21 flowing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is a good word to have 23 -- you know, have a conversation about, I think. 24 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Also, I think across the 8-22-11 69 1 street over here, you're talking about a restaurant that 2 faces Sidney Baker? 3 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. If you look at -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me about that. 5 MR. WATSON: If you look at the way the Cailloux -- 6 the Schreiner facility is going to be built out, there is a, 7 basically, 8,000 square foot space in the southwest corner of 8 that facility. And their plans, if you look at their plans, 9 has a restaurant facing out towards Sidney Baker. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 11 MR. WATSON: Having a patio area there, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that space is going to be 13 built as part of City Hall? 14 MR. WATSON: No, no, no. No, sir. The actual 15 building -- the actual building is going to be part of the 16 Schreiner store. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, part of Schreiner store. 18 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, the old Schreiner store. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought you meant the 20 southwest corner, which means the corner of Water and Sidney 21 Baker. 22 MR. WATSON: Southwest corner of Schreiner store. 23 I'm sorry, I apologize. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of where I was 25 too. You wouldn't have shocked me. 8-22-11 70 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At all. 3 MR. WATSON: So -- no, my understanding is that's a 4 parking lot where you're talking about. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for your 6 explanation. That's good. 7 MR. WATSON: No problem. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another -- you mentioned big 9 boxes. The only -- I'm not even sure who owns it; I don't 10 know if Guy does, but in Center Point on the right side of 11 the road pretty far set back, five years ago, a very large 12 building was built, and it seems to be empty. Are you 13 talking about -- it's kind of a contemporary looking -- 14 nice -- real nice building. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty nice building. I 16 think old -- if I'm not mistaken, Dick Colvin either sold the 17 property and built the building, or still owns both; I'm not 18 sure. But -- 19 MR. WATSON: I can get with Commissioner Overby. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- it's a big 21 building, looks like two-story, like a warehouse. I don't 22 know what it was. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I've actually had a 24 conversation with a certain gentleman in town -- I don't mind 25 saying his name -- Greg Masters, who I think is the 8-22-11 71 1 connection with what you're talking about in that area. I 2 think we have somebody using that. I mean, there's some use 3 of it, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But anyway, Greg and I have 6 been trying to get together with the owner of that particular 7 business and discuss some things, 'cause he's from the north. 8 But we have some use of that facility out there. The 9 company's from the north; they have an operation down here. 10 But we've been trying to get together and do that. But 11 that's one thing I'll look into. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it is a real big building, 13 doesn't have a whole lot of traffic there. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's in the ETJ; not even in 15 the city limits, I don't think. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's -- it's past the ETJ, 17 what I'm thinking of, over there right behind that big pump 18 place. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was talking about the one 20 close to the highway. There's a big building there right 21 close -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the one, the Bateman 23 building. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Across from the airport. 25 MR. WATSON: That's the Bateman building. 8-22-11 72 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: About 14,000 square feet. 2 MR. WATSON: Right at 14,000; 2 and a half acres on 3 that property. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We're going to look at, in 5 the future here fairly soon, starting to go look at down the 6 road potentially of some agricultural facilities. 7 MR. WATSON: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And if we decide to start 9 moving that direction, start looking at some facilities, one 10 of those committees that we're looking at discussing is 11 discussing organizing a facility committee to look at 12 functional use of ag facilities. Would you be willing to 13 serve on that committee as we move forward if we -- when that 14 committee starts to form? 15 MR. WATSON: Yes, I will. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over your -- I guess 18 the -- I've never really totally understood how the new 19 corporation works versus what was here before. 20 MR. WATSON: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, can you kind of 22 summarize that? Because I, as a Commissioner, used to hear 23 and be involved quite a bit, and it doesn't seem that the 24 County is involved any more, other than the Judge sitting on 25 the committee. 8-22-11 73 1 MR. WATSON: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you kind of overview how 3 the process works? 4 MR. WATSON: Basically, the funding comes from -- 5 the main source is E.I.C.; that's 225,000 of the $300,000 6 budget. And then you have three other sources; KPUB, City, 7 and the County. And that's -- those are the main four 8 sources of funding. In that, there's nine board members, one 9 from each funding source, and then there is also a board 10 member from the C.V.B., and then there's at-large board 11 members that are business members that are elected by the 12 actual sitting board. And so then those nine board members 13 are who actually makes the decisions going forward, the 14 funding and what -- what projects we're funding, and the 15 direction of the board. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- I'm going 17 further than that, is that the -- I mean, your budget -- 18 there's not a huge staff. It's you and -- 19 MR. WATSON: One other person. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- one other person, so who is 21 doing all of the other work? Because -- and I'll just get 22 right to the -- cut to the chase on this. My perception is 23 the City's a whole lot more involved than they used to be. 24 We're talking about the biggest funding or growth potential 25 really being in Kerr County, and the City has not shown a 8-22-11 74 1 whole lot of -- they haven't been real generous in offering 2 to fund things in the county recently -- for the county 3 recently. 4 MR. WATSON: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I see a -- a breakdown 6 there. If the City is going to -- are they changing their 7 philosophy all of a sudden to say that, hey, they're going to 8 start looking at things in east Kerr county? 9 MR. WATSON: No. No, the -- and the City -- the 10 City's not -- I don't speak for the City at all. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I understand. 12 MR. WATSON: Zero. So I speak -- I speak strictly 13 for our board. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MR. WATSON: At and the point in time when they 16 feel our board is not speaking for them properly, they'll 17 defund us or whatever. So -- and we hope that doesn't 18 happen. But, at the same time, we have a set of priorities. 19 The reason I think the board was set up the way it was is so 20 that you could take the priorities that this board set up, 21 and away from the politics, and move forward with what's 22 right for the county as a whole, and do the economic 23 development that needs to be done in the county as a whole. 24 So, when they fund E.I.C. projects, they're still funding it; 25 they're still in charge of that. That's their business. We 8-22-11 75 1 can give our input. We can give our thoughts and stuff like 2 that, and that's what we intend to do as we go forward. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who does the analysis now for 4 economic development? Somebody from business comes in and 5 wants -- you know, who is -- 6 MR. WATSON: If they're wanting E.I.C. funding, 7 then that analysis is done by their staff -- the city staff. 8 We can do a preliminary economic analysis. I can -- I can 9 run that fairly easily on that. But the majority of -- if 10 they're strictly looking at E.I.C. funding, it's done by City 11 staff. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me come at it from a little 13 bit different direction. I'm not quite getting where I 14 wanted to go. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. I tried a few 16 times. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm a business member, and I 18 call -- pick up a phone book and don't know who to call. I 19 call the county, call somebody, get somebody on the phone and 20 say I'm a businessman. I want to -- I'm looking at doing -- 21 maybe moving a business to Kerrville. What happens to me? 22 MR. WATSON: At that point in time, I start 23 visiting with you. We figure out what -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it goes to the city first, 25 it goes to -- 8-22-11 76 1 MR. WATSON: They're supposed to give it over to us 2 to start working with. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the -- there is only one 4 point -- lead agency? 5 MR. WATSON: That's right. There's supposed to be 6 one agency, one point of contact, one direction. And at that 7 point in time, we start finding out what their needs are, 8 what the availability of the City and the County is, and then 9 we start looking at the funding sources to help them achieve 10 what they're wanting to do. And then if it is a direction -- 11 if they're looking at grant funding or E.I.C. funding, then 12 we turn that piece over to the City, and then we work with 13 them on other pieces. Does that help? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that helps. Getting 15 better. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you one more 17 question now. 18 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're the director? 20 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As the director of your 22 organization, do you -- did you -- or are you participating 23 in the latest economic development program, the river trails 24 and those kind of things that the City's doing? Is that one 25 of your projects? 8-22-11 77 1 MR. WATSON: No, sir. That presentation was 2 presented to our board, and -- but not as a request for 3 information. It was just as a presentation to us, and that 4 is something the City is -- that's 100 percent the City's 5 project. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 7 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like to me if it was 9 economic development, it would kind of at least bleed over 10 into you. 11 MR. WATSON: Right. At the end of the day, as I 12 stated a while ago, the E.I.C. funds are the City's funds, 13 and so they -- I don't think that they feel that there's a 14 necessity -- necessity to go outside for -- for, you know, 15 other information on that. So, I think they feel like that's 16 their funds, and, you know, if it's a good project that their 17 board approves, then they have moved forward on it. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just hope we see some 20 economic development one of these days that's the result of 21 the money that's been expended. 22 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the purpose of economic 24 development, with the board and with -- you know, having 25 staff such as yourself. I hope that we see something happen, 8-22-11 78 1 you know, -- 2 MR. WATSON: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- one of these days, 'cause 4 it doesn't seem to have happened to this point. 5 MR. WATSON: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It hasn't in a long time. 7 MR. WATSON: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ray, I'll ask you one 9 question. Do you have -- does the board have any intentions 10 to enlarge the public participation in the board? 11 MR. WATSON: Yes. The board would like to expand 12 to more business members on that board. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 14 MR. WATSON: That is something that was discussed 15 at our last board meeting. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. I know more than I 17 did before. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Watson? 19 MR. WATSON: And, Mr. Letz, any time that you feel 20 like you need to know something, I have an open-door policy, 21 and I can come meet with y'all. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't do that. Don't do 23 that. (Laughter.) 24 MR. WATSON: So -- so -- and I can also come meet 25 with y'all as a group as well, whenever. 8-22-11 79 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Have you heard -- one more 2 last question. Have you heard anything recently about 3 whether E.I.C. is going to do anything with the U.S.D.A. 4 property? 5 MR. WATSON: I have not. I have not. They were 6 supposed to talk about it last week. I don't know if they 7 did or not, so -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 MR. WATSON: So I'll find out for you. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 11 MR. WATSON: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Watson. Why don't we 14 take about a 15-minute recess. 15 (Recess taken from 10:33 a.m. to 10:48 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order from 18 our recess. Let's go to Item 17; consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action on various components related to the new 20 outdoor arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. This 21 is the second part of what we were talking about before, if 22 we haven't already talked about it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes it is. You know, and I 24 guess what this is there for is to find out whether we -- now 25 that we have approved the outdoor lighting, whether we want 8-22-11 80 1 to do some permanent bleachers, or -- and that's all this is 2 about, and not about any restroom facilities or any 3 concession area, anything like that. Just to see if we would 4 like to move forward on getting a price on permanent 5 bleachers. And I don't have any idea what the costs are 6 involved with that. We kind of started on it one time, but 7 we never did pursue it to the end. But the bleachers that we 8 have that we used for the KerrFest are -- only two of them 9 really gets you high enough where you can see over the fence, 10 and so I would like to see us at least pursue prices on -- on 11 that for, say, 400 to 500 seating capacity. And then at that 12 point, if we -- we decide to do that, I think that would be 13 all that would be necessary to make that thing functional, 14 and we can put all of our efforts into doing the show barn. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think at a minimum, we need to see 16 what we're looking at in terms of cost to see if it's even 17 doable in terms of current funding availability. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. But I would like to 19 -- if the Court would -- would give its blessing for that, I 20 would be glad to move forward to see what those costs are, 21 and look at various different designs and things, and see if 22 we can't somehow afford to do that. And we can have 23 functions there without restroom facilities; we can always 24 bring in the port-a-pottys. Whoever's putting on the event, 25 you can get outside caterers to bring in concessions, so you 8-22-11 81 1 don't have to worry about that. And those are the only two 2 costs -- the restrooms and concession area are pretty costly. 3 We kind of looked at that for a while, and it looked like 4 just the restroom facility alone was going to be something 5 like -- oh, it's $150,000 for that? And when you tack on the 6 concessions, it was going to be real similar, real close to 7 the same price. But things can happen out there without 8 permanent facilities as long as you have the basics, and I 9 don't think we quite have the basics we need yet. But 10 hopefully it will work within the amount of funding that we 11 have available for that project out there being set aside for 12 that outdoor arena and improvements. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner Oehler, do you 14 see the seating -- the 400 or 500 you're talking about, is 15 this kind of -- what you're saying is kind of more like a 16 football type of venue with seating all on one side? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Seating on one side? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just seating on one side for 20 now, and that would be ample. And -- you know, and then 21 sometime in the future, if we see the need for more, or if, 22 sometime in the future, money becomes available to put a -- 23 to close it in, cover it up, you know, that -- but I see that 24 way down the road. I don't think that's any time in the near 25 future, unless somebody steps up and says, "Hey, I want to 8-22-11 82 1 build a cover over this, and here's the money." 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see that's going to 4 happen any time soon. I think, you know, if you look at most 5 of your rodeo facilities, a large number of them are outdoor. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, they seem to work just 8 fine. And people I've been talking to that are involved in 9 roping and rodeos and such, that doesn't seem to bother them 10 if they're outside. In fact, sometimes, if they're not 11 designed properly, the outdoor ones are cooler than the stuff 12 that's covered up, if you don't -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember one time -- one 14 time this Commissioners Court took a tour of that facility in 15 Abilene. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Taylor? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Taylor County, and they have 18 that big indoor arena where they do rodeos and ice skating, 19 ice hockey, whatever all that is. And, I mean, they have 20 four or five facilities all there together. And the one that 21 was rocking and rolling was the outdoor arena with the little 22 roof over it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm telling you, the 25 seats were packed, and there was horse trailers as far as you 8-22-11 83 1 can see. It's just -- that was the one that was being used. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think it's -- you 3 know, it's money well spent. But for the time being, I think 4 we can operate just fine if we can just get some seating and 5 get the lights in, which we already approved. And the people 6 really -- the ones that did come and participate in the 7 KerrFest and rodeo part have said that they really like that 8 situation, to where you have all your contestants and all 9 your trailers and vehicles all on that -- you know, in that 10 one area, and the public coming from the other area. And 11 also, those horses are on grass rather than having to cross 12 pavement. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We saved -- at the outdoor 14 arena, the old one, we saved the seating in that one; is that 15 correct? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of it. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Part of it? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not much of it. Most of it 19 went to scrap. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It all went to scrap. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Most of it was scrap? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was all built. It was 23 concrete block. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All it was was seats just set 25 on concrete. 8-22-11 84 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. At the KerrFest, there 2 wasn't any wooden bleachers, was there, at all? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, the two sets -- the 4 tall ones were wood. Metal frame, but they had wood seats. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I did have some 6 comments come back from some folks -- you know, they were 7 concerned about safety issues with some of those. And I 8 think that's another thing, as we're talking about, 9 Commissioner, looking at doing these stands, I think we also 10 make a big point -- safety issue of people coming to look at 11 these events needs to be a priority for us. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it also has to be A.D.A. 13 compliant. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We found that out early on. 16 You can't just build them like -- you know, kind of like you 17 want to on a public facility -- public property. You have to 18 build them with code. So, anyway, that's -- what's your 19 pleasure? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Go get some pricing, see what we're 21 looking at. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't cost anything to look. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two approaches. 25 There's one to build them out of block and -- that way. The 8-22-11 85 1 other one is to get prefab aluminum ones. That shouldn't 2 take too long to figure out. You can get a price on aluminum 3 pretty quick; then you figure out, you know, if you need to 4 look at the other route or not. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, okay. I'll do that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to say that -- 8 that I'm all for bleachers and roofs and lights and 9 bathrooms. Actually, I think -- personally, I think 10 bathrooms are the standard, are part of the gig. But, you 11 know, I'm in favor of all that, but my priority is that 12 indoor facility, and I think that we should -- every penny 13 that we can round up, we need to set it aside for that 14 facility. As -- as you know, we're talking about $6 million 15 here and $13 million there, you know. Well, we may not be 16 able to do that. And if we start setting aside these 100,000 17 here and 20,000 there, you know, we might be able to get 18 something done. Anyway, that's just my thought. I'm not 19 opposed to this kind of stuff; I just think the priority 20 should be the other facility. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 18; to consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action to call an election to be 25 placed on the November 2011 general election ballot on the 8-22-11 86 1 question of imposing a hotel occupancy tax within the county 2 to the extent authorized by Chapter 334 of Texas Local 3 Government Code, as amended, for the purpose of implementing 4 a venue project described as the restoration, renovation, 5 development, expansion, and construction of the Kerr County 6 Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center and related 7 infrastructure. Commissioner Overby? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge and Commissioners, 9 again, this is before you here today just to recap where we 10 have gone over the last two county commissioner meetings. We 11 started looking at the possibility of what our financing 12 package would be as far as trying to put a plan together to 13 move forward on the renovations of the ag facility out on 14 Highway 27. As you remember, our County Attorney, 15 Mr. Henneke, did a lot of research for us, and we went 16 through all the procedures that we needed to follow as far as 17 how we would establish a venue tax of two cents in our 18 community, how we could use that to be applied to this venue 19 project. We have -- since then, our County Attorney has sent 20 that information off and that application to look at if there 21 was any negative state impact as far as the venue tax being 22 passed, and obviously, going to the election for a vote in 23 November by our voters. The report that came back from the 24 State of Texas as far as our information is concerned is that 25 there was no negative impact as far as the venue tax, as far 8-22-11 87 1 as the State of Texas was concerned. And we have that 2 letter, and that's in our document here today. 3 The -- the item here for discussion is right now to 4 discuss, do we move forward with the venue tax right now of 5 two cents to look at the facility that we're trying to do, as 6 far as the ag facility? I think that the Court right now 7 is -- is -- just like our last discussion, we talked about 8 that we -- the project that needs to happen is obviously the 9 existing buildings, the renovation, and probably the tearing 10 down of the original building and building a new facility, 11 and we're probably looking around six million dollars, six 12 and a half million dollars to do that. Again the exhibit 13 center part of this has now been tabled, and we've kind of 14 concentrated on this with this general tax right here to take 15 care of Phase I and Phase II. The comments today to be 16 discussed are, do we move forward? Do we delay and look at 17 this at 2012? 18 We had the comment asked about if we delay, is 19 there a possibility that we could move forward and do this as 20 a special election in May? And we cannot do that. Ms. Bolin 21 has given us information back, and we are not allowed to do 22 special sessions, as far as we're not allowed to do that, 23 call for something special. Only non-county elections that 24 can be done in May, and we would not be -- and in odd 25 years -- even-numbered years, so we're not able to do 8-22-11 88 1 anything next year. The only time that we could -- if we 2 table this or don't move forward with it, it would go on the 3 election for 2012. The reason why -- I think the questions 4 we're discussing here are -- two things. As far as the 5 timing is critical for the project, I think, first of all, we 6 need to let the community be made very aware that this is a 7 project that is a high priority. We have a facility that's 8 55 years old. We have a lot of ag and non-related events 9 that use it. There are a lot of other new events that we 10 could attract by renovating it to use the facility. 11 Again, my first time around, coming through this 12 first year, interlocal agreements, as far as the negotiation 13 part, were lengthy because they needed to happen. But time 14 went a little bit longer in trying to help move the venue tax 15 further ahead earlier, if we could have, but that did not 16 give us really enough time to look at that. A couple of 17 things that need to happen as far as moving forward with the 18 promoting the venue tax. I think two things need to happen, 19 is even with all the information that we've had collected and 20 the data and the requests that we have made to the community, 21 we do need to look at trying to form a couple of committees 22 that are -- that are important to involve the community, 23 different organizations. One of those we talked about was a 24 facility committee, a functional committee, and I think what 25 Commissioners Oehler talked about today, a couple of things; 8-22-11 89 1 this committee needs to be able to go and look at a couple of 2 sites. We mentioned a couple of sites like San, Angelo, some 3 of the Morris Activity Centers in San Antonio. We've even 4 had a West Texas -- gosh, Levelland has been another one to 5 go look at as far as functionality. 6 And also our finance committee. We've had a lot of 7 folks who have expressed an interest in supporting a -- the 8 private sector that needs to be involved in this, and all of 9 this with late August, as we sit here, and early voting 10 starts mid-October, to get everything involved at this time, 11 to get this organized and have the public relations get done, 12 it really puts us in a short timeline. So, it's here for 13 discussion, to decide if we -- want to move forward with the 14 venue tax in 2011, or do we not move forward until 2012, 15 until these other committees have been formed to gain more 16 support in the community? And so I -- I put that on the 17 table for you, and -- and for your comments. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, what is your personal 19 opinion as to whether or not there's adequate time to lay the 20 proper groundwork to have this matter fairly considered by 21 the voters this year, 2011 November general election? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think that polling the 23 different organizations, polling the different feedback that 24 we've heard from livestock folks or associational members, 25 different organizations that would be -- like the Chamber, 8-22-11 90 1 hearing private sector folks who I think are all saying that 2 they support the project, but needing to take time to get 3 everybody on board, and -- and to look at, I think, again, 4 refocusing our energies on those two phases, to take a step 5 -- don't go forward right now. I think the only thing that 6 we need to talk about that is -- and timing is important, 7 but, you know, conversation -- I know that Commissioner 8 Baldwin -- we've all talked about the need to look at ESD's, 9 and down the road for next year. You know, the possibility 10 of having those two on the ballot at one time, or -- are some 11 comments to really discuss about. I just think with the 12 timing with early voting right now, to get the functionality 13 committee up and to get a financing committee to develop the 14 public relations part of this would be very, very difficult 15 to move forward right now. Instead, take a step back and go 16 from there. 17 I had an interesting comment I'll share with you as 18 well about the venue tax. I actually had a meeting last week 19 with one of our hoteliers here in town, and I share it with 20 you. They -- even though they didn't like the venue tax, 21 they understood it, because it needed to happen. And I will 22 say this to you; that they support the ag facility, and it 23 does bring hotel nights in the community, whereas some of the 24 other potential other projects do not that are being 25 discussed. And that's a hotelier that I thought was very -- 8-22-11 91 1 the comment, you know, they didn't like the tax being 2 discussed, but they understood why it needs to be looked at. 3 So, again, my -- that's for us to -- you know, to discuss 4 here and see what you want to do. But my -- my comment right 5 now would be to -- to wait until 2012, and look at these 6 other committees, and move pronto as far as trying to get 7 organization and get the community behind it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- I hate to 9 wait, but I think it's probably better to wait, 'cause I 10 think we also -- while we have drawings, a schematic plan, I 11 think we really need to polish that up, make sure exactly -- 12 I think we need to be able to show the voters what will be 13 built. And I think we have a -- you know, we have the master 14 plan that we -- you know, we're -- being the basis for it, 15 but that also has exhibit hall and other stuff. I think we 16 just need to have a building drawing that we're going to move 17 forward on, because I think if it's not real clear what the 18 money's going to be used for, chances go down. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd agree with you. It's -- 20 it hasn't done well up to this point, trying to get it off 21 the ground. We've -- you know, we've had this plan now for 22 several years, and it was -- you know, it's basically just 23 a plan showing sizes of buildings that we feel like the 24 spaces that need to be built to accommodate some of the 25 things that can happen here. But, you know, I do believe 8-22-11 92 1 it's going to take a while to educate the public, 'cause the 2 first thing they hear is "tax"; they think they're going to 3 be the ones paying it. And in this instance, and more cases 4 than not, unless they rent motel rooms locally, the locals 5 aren't going to pay for it. It would be the same -- we pay 6 for it everywhere we go. Every time we stay in a motel in 7 some other city, we're paying that same tax for purposes that 8 they spend money for. So, I'm -- you know, I don't know that 9 there's a more positive way to do it where it doesn't affect 10 the locals' pocketbooks. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other thing 12 that we have to -- I don't know how you -- if you go to a 13 public campaign, if this needs to be brought up or not, but I 14 think part of the issue is that, you know, the City already 15 has a tax. They've got their part out there, and -- but we 16 went to the City and asked for E.I.C. funding. They said no. 17 Therefore, I mean, they can't really now come back and -- I 18 mean, to me, it's hard for -- you know, we went that route, 19 using -- you know, not necessarily that tax, but using 20 economic development funds. They said they didn't want to 21 participate. Well, they're kind of pulling the legs out from 22 under us and limiting the options that we have. And this is 23 an option that, to me, makes sense. It's not using local 24 dollars, and getting -- gets the project built. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not a property tax. 8-22-11 93 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a property tax. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioners, the master plan 3 overall I think is a wonderful plan. It incorporates so many 4 elements that -- that will be attractive for economic 5 development in this community. It's the only plan that I 6 know of where you've got permanent type facilities that you 7 can incorporate with what we commonly refer to as our crown 8 jewel, the river. We got the river there at Flat Rock, and 9 the east park, and we can incorporate that for more of an 10 outdoor setting. We've got the River Star right next door. 11 That whole complex has such tremendous potential, and I think 12 the overall master plan, as a concept and a method to move 13 forward, is probably the best thing to come down the pike for 14 Kerrville and Kerr County in a long, long time. I'm not sure 15 how much the public's even aware of it. That's education 16 issue number one. Education issue number two, as you said, 17 is that this -- this funding will be supplied by people that 18 come to visit our area, which are the ones we want to attract 19 more of, and it's kind of a -- kind of a self-perpetuating 20 situation. And I think we have an educational task ahead of 21 us, and both from the standpoint of the overall concept, the 22 potential, and also the funding source coming from visitors. 23 The issue as to the ESD, I'm mindful of that. I 24 see that as something that's not even indirectly related, 25 other than it would be another issue on the ballot possibly 8-22-11 94 1 for 2012. That's a local issue for local people to decide 2 how they want to spend their local dollars for whatever that 3 emergency services that's the subject of the district, and 4 whether or not, as we hear oftentimes from city residents, 5 that they're paying twice for the same thing. This gives 6 them an option to say everybody pays once, and which, of 7 course, is equitable. So, I -- other than giving them 8 something that they both have to -- they have to 9 independently weigh, I don't see that the one would 10 necessarily muddle the other or be in conflict with it. Two 11 different funding sources. In fact, it might -- might serve 12 to emphasize that the venue tax is paid by the outsiders. 13 The ESD tax is paid by local folks that get the benefit of 14 that service. So, there's work to be done, and I tend to 15 agree with Commissioner Overby and some of the others that 16 have said we really don't have time to do it justice by 17 trying to put that thing together for this year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I couldn't disagree 19 with you more. You get -- you get the ESD and any tax 20 side-by-side, and it does muddle the water -- muddies the 21 water. It will -- it will cause people to not approve 22 anything. And, you know, that's just -- I -- you're 23 bumfuzzling my mind. Have we forgotten what we just went 24 through with the ESD -- with the city issue? An ESD would be 25 an answer to that. And, to me, I mean, what -- if you 8-22-11 95 1 prioritize these things, I mean, this program doesn't even 2 make -- hit the radar screen, in my opinion. I mean, it just 3 -- I don't get it. The finance director was in here the 4 other day; "Why don't you just borrow the money and build 5 it?" As opposed to -- I mean, this -- how much does this 6 raise? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's about 40 percent. And 8 -- and, Commissioner Baldwin, I don't want to interrupt you 9 if you got more to say. All I would say to you is that if we 10 go ahead and organize our finance committee, there may -- and 11 we need to look at grants. I see Rosa back there. We have a 12 list of grants; I know it's coming. We need to move forward 13 on that, and if the financing committee -- if we're able to 14 find -- let the need be known in the community and we can 15 raise the funds, what we can do -- the venue tax may not be a 16 recommendation from the financing committee to put on the 17 docket. That would be a great problem to have, that we've -- 18 we've come up and raised $6 million to do it, and we're not 19 going to put the venue -- but it's an option for them. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to be as 21 respectful as I can to you. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just disagree with you 24 completely. And I'd rather -- I'd rather see us borrow some 25 money and do the improvements, and be good stewards of the 8-22-11 96 1 money, as -- as opposed to interfering with the ESD issue in 2 any way. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I understand that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you know, I will -- my 5 priority is with the ESD, and stay away from it. Stay away 6 from -- keep all that other stuff away from it so that we can 7 get it done. And -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When do you propose you'd 9 want to do that? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next November. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 2012. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2012. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, there's no doubt, that 14 is -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's always been the goal. 16 It's going to take us -- you know, if we approved it -- if 17 the voters approved it in November of 2012, it's still going 18 to take two, maybe three years to see a dollar come -- come 19 into the system. So -- and that's always been kind of what 20 we talked about around here. And, you know, I just -- I just 21 see that as so much more important than a convention center. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, I totally agree with 23 you. EMS services and fire, those are all high priorities, 24 and they should be number one. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Well, table that 8-22-11 97 1 and let's get on down the road. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But I will make a motion at 3 this time to table -- not table; not move forward on the 4 venue tax for the 2011 November ballot on the ag-related 5 events on this facility. A motion not to move forward. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 8 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (Commissioners Overby, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 11 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm opposed. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. We've got an 15 11 o'clock timed item that we need to get to now, which is 16 Item 16. Presentation by Daphne Webber, the regional 17 representative of the Office of Court Administration, on the 18 Scofflaw program. I assume that Scofflaw is -- is an acronym 19 for something, as opposed to just referring to these 20 scofflaws -- 21 MS. WEBBER: That is correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that aren't paying when they 23 should be, right? 24 MS. WEBBER: Right. Jim Lehman is going to pass 25 out some information to you guys. Good morning. 8-22-11 98 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, I wanted to say, glad 2 to have you here today, ma'am. 3 MS. WEBBER: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I asked Terry to go ahead and 5 put this on the agenda today for discussion, and to kind of 6 give us more information about Scofflaw. Of course, our 7 Court Compliance, those type of things, we're always looking 8 at ways to try to assist our collections, -- 9 MS. WEBBER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- those type of things. And 11 the Scofflaw is -- is one type of opportunity that some 12 counties use in the state. 13 MS. WEBBER: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's an option for us to 15 learn about today, so I appreciate you being here today for 16 your presentation. 17 MS. WEBBER: Thank you. If you turn to your first 18 page, the Transportation Code, it's some of the definitions 19 of what Scofflaw is. Vehicle registration denial for 20 nonpayment of fines, fees, or taxes. 502.185, refusal to 21 register vehicle in certain counties. A county assessor/ 22 collector or the department may refuse to register a motor 23 vehicle if the assessor/collector or the department receives 24 information that the owner of the vehicle owes the county 25 money for a fine and/or fee or tax that is past-due. So, 8-22-11 99 1 these right here are different -- the different codes that 2 you guys can look at. The biggest -- I would say the biggest 3 stumbling block would be the technical side of it, and that's 4 just to acquire the internal data, the data scrub for the 5 license plates, submit a flag, or unflag it. 6 If you go to this page right here, a 7 pre-implementation is the process and development that you 8 guys would have to do something internally to see what best 9 works for your department. The City Council or 10 Commissioners, you have to have their approval. You have to 11 have a DMV contract. I also have a contract -- just an 12 interlocal agreement, if you guys could look at as well, and 13 a media campaign. Usually the media campaign works more than 14 the actual Scofflaw, if you get it out there before you 15 actually do the Scofflaw, put it on a postcard or mail-ins, 16 let them know that, you know, you are getting ready to have 17 your license -- or your -- your license plate tagged. So, 18 usually the media is the best way to do it, before it even 19 gets to Scofflaw. And then, again, the implementation. The 20 A/C checks the registered vehicle. A defendant is rejected 21 and given instructions on what to do. The defendant pays and 22 returns a clearance letter. They register the vehicle, and 23 you submit it for clearance. 24 Now, again, the submissions are -- you can do a 25 media format, a C.D., e-mail, whatever your internal I.T. 8-22-11 100 1 department chooses to do. But the probe is a data scrub for 2 an appropriately matched vehicle registration with a 3 defendant, so you have to make sure that that is the right 4 defendant's vehicle that you're -- that you're looking at. 5 Then the flag; you place the flag on the appropriate vehicle 6 registration, and then you clear it. Once they pay, you 7 remove the flag, and then they can get the vehicle 8 registration. So, you have a probe, the flag, and you have a 9 clear. Now, the cost in return, there is a $500 deposit with 10 DMV, $23 per computer run, and there's 12 cents for each 11 transaction. So, 12 cents for a probe, 12 cents for a flag, 12 and 12 cents for a clear. And the C.D. of data is $23, so 13 say if you had 100 license plates at 12 cents per license 14 plate, that's about $12, plus the $23 for the -- the C.D. 15 So, your total cost is about $35, which is about 35 cents per 16 license plate. So, say if you did all three of those, the 17 data, the scrub, the probe, you're looking at $1.05 per 18 license plate. An average Class C warrant is about $250, so 19 your -- your return on investment is about 23,000, so you can 20 see $1.05 per license plate for three, that's not a lot. 21 If you turn to the next page -- I can't see that 22 very well, but there's a circle and arrows. That's where 23 it's going to be on the vehicle registration. It'll say 24 Scofflaw down there. Okay. The denial and release process, 25 the defendant receives a denial notice at the Tax Office. 8-22-11 101 1 The notice refers the defendant to the appropriate office. 2 The defendant pays an appropriate -- at the appropriate 3 office to contain a released document. They get a document 4 from the Tax Office, and the defendant returns to the Tax 5 Office to register their vehicle. So, that's denial and 6 release process. These are -- if you go to the next page, 7 there's 38 cities that do have contracts with DMV, and then 8 there's 13 counties that have contracts with DMV on the 9 Scofflaw. The results were pretty positive with El Paso. El 10 Paso, June 2004 to April 2011, they've had 21,996 warrants 11 cleared using the Scofflaw. And you can see there, money is 12 what, 4 million that they've collected. 13 Now, Ector County just started in March of '08, 14 until March -- May '11, and they've spent about $3,000, and 15 they've collected 384,000 from April 2010 to May 2011. So, 16 it -- it pays for itself. Okay. And the process 17 development, again, it's usually just a meeting of the 18 stakeholders. You want to see what direction and what 19 leadership you want to go in with the Scofflaw. Develop an 20 implementation plan. Again, that's going to be devised by 21 the Collections Department or the Tax Assessor. The planner 22 should review any existing programs, so I would encourage you 23 to contact Ector County or to contact El Paso and see how it 24 works for them, or any of these people that are listed on 25 that list that I gave you to see how they like it and see 8-22-11 102 1 what obstacles, if any, that they had to go through to do 2 this. 3 Again, it should -- implementation plan should 4 include a procedure for managing denial. Examples. Start-up 5 plan, the County Attorney, they review the DMV contract. The 6 court staff develops some type of documents or establish 7 perimeters. Law enforcement, that you guys add a Scofflaw 8 warning to your citations. Finance department, establish a 9 billing verification or escrow account with DMV. The I.T. 10 department, to set up something to format the DMV, and a 11 Scofflaw vendor, a system matching batch processing, and, 12 again, billing reconciliation. Again, media is, to me, the 13 best way to go about doing Scofflaw, because you can get them 14 in before you even actually put the Scofflaw on there if you 15 let them know, "Look, in the next month we're going to be 16 doing Scofflaw. You need to come in and pay your court costs 17 and fines." Usually that will get them in. That way you 18 don't have to put the actual flag on their license plate. 19 Does anybody have any questions? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Webber -- I do. Thank 21 you. 22 MS. WEBBER: Yes? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have two counties here, 24 El Paso and Ector County. Of course, both are ten times 25 bigger than we are. 8-22-11 103 1 MS. WEBBER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have the same kind of 3 numbers for, like, Hood County, as an example? 4 MS. WEBBER: I don't have them with me now, but I 5 can give them to you, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MS. WEBBER: That's not a problem. Yes, I would be 8 more than happy to get that for you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll bet we can round it up. 10 MS. WEBBER: Do you happen to know, Jim? Do you 11 happen to know what Hood County's -- 12 MR. LEHMAN: No. But as she said, I'm pretty sure 13 we can get that information for you. The -- the DMV will 14 probably have some information, but I'm sure the -- the 15 county itself will probably be able to provide that. So -- 16 MS. WEBBER: I would say the -- the petition level 17 -- participation level is not that high. It's because that 18 nobody really knows about Scofflaw. The previous people that 19 had it didn't -- didn't put out any information, didn't 20 market it, so no one really knows what it is. It's also a 21 soft stop, which means that the next county doesn't have to 22 put Scofflaw on there. But I would suggest that you get in 23 contact with all the locations and say, you know, "We're 24 starting the Scofflaw program. We will honor yours if you 25 honor ours." Kind of a neighbor thing. 8-22-11 104 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have on the -- 2 the results you show for El Paso and Ector -- 3 MS. WEBBER: Mm-hmm? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are those the total 5 collections -- are those the collections only listed for 6 those people that were past-due or out of compliance? I 7 mean, it's like when you say -- I mean, I have no idea how 8 many collections are done in El Paso County, but it's 9 4,535,000. Is that -- what does that number represent? What 10 is that number telling me? 11 MR. LEHMAN: That number is for all the actual 12 people that they put on Scofflaw that they got money from. 13 So, they had 21,996 warrants, and all of that resulted in 14 four million. And those are people that they actually put on 15 Scofflaw. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, these are fees and fines? 17 That's fees and fines? 18 MS. WEBBER: Is that fees and fines? 19 MR. LEHMAN: Yeah, that will be courts costs, fees, 20 and fines. And most of those, Commissioner, for El Paso 21 would have been at the justice court level. So, they just, 22 maybe a year, year and a half ago, moved into -- and Linda 23 had asked about what court levels or what offenses. You can 24 do it for all level offenses. They've just recently moved 25 into misdemeanor criminal courts and so forth, so most of 8-22-11 105 1 that will -- you can use Class C. 2 MS. WEBBER: And some of it, again, was also lack 3 of support from some local tax office. A lot of people 4 thought that, "I'm going to have to hire new people; I'm 5 going to have to get new computer systems." No, you don't. 6 You don't have to hire new people. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Webber, you mentioned that some 8 sort of reciprocity under this program -- essentially, we 9 would input those that owed Kerr County fees, fines, et 10 cetera, and if they attempted to register in Kerr County, of 11 course, that would pop up and they'd be required to clear 12 those items. 13 MS. WEBBER: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned some sort of 15 reciprocity agreement with other counties by which we would 16 mutually agree under -- under the -- under the program -- if 17 the -- I assume there's some sort of reporting mechanism by 18 which if someone walks into Kerr County Tax Office, wants to 19 register their vehicle, for example -- 20 MS. WEBBER: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- there could be some sort of 22 annotation on that registration that they -- for example, up 23 in Milam County or some other county. Is that correct? 24 MS. WEBBER: That is correct. That's correct, yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess it's a matter of how 8-22-11 106 1 counties are going to treat their own residents relative to 2 the -- 3 MS. WEBBER: Someone else's. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- economic health of some other 5 county. 6 MS. WEBBER: That's correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I can see kind of a collision course 8 there. 9 MR. LEHMAN: Let me clarify, Judge. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 11 MR. LEHMAN: What happens is, you can only flag -- 12 a county can only flag vehicles that are registered within 13 the county, so the reciprocity would come from if that person 14 moved either out of or into a new county or a different 15 county and then attempted to register the vehicle. So, for 16 instance, if you had someone leave Kerr and move to El Paso 17 County, and then attempted to register the vehicle in El Paso 18 County because they moved, but they still owe Kerr County 19 money, then that's where the reciprocity comes in. That's 20 where the cooperation piece comes in. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's not just a general 22 reciprocity. 23 MR. LEHMAN: No. No. Now, the city Scofflaw is 24 different. They -- you know, it's there statewide, but you 25 can only register the vehicles -- you can only flag the 8-22-11 107 1 vehicles that are registered in your county. I hope I 2 answered the question. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: For the Commissioners 4 Court -- just their information, what year did the Scofflaw 5 begin? 6 MS. WEBBER: The Scofflaw -- 7 MR. LEHMAN: I think it passed in '98. 8 MS. WEBBER: A long time, yeah. 9 MR. LEHMAN: So it's been around for quite a while. 10 But, as Daphne said earlier, the former -- well, TexDOT, 11 which is the original -- when it was passed, TexDOT was the 12 manager of the Scofflaw program. They -- they really did not 13 promote it. There was -- there was a skepticism that it 14 would create a negative impact on -- on their revenue 15 initially. None of that's happened, none of the things that 16 people were frightened of that Daphne mentioned. And there's 17 some tax assessors were concerned about -- tax 18 assessor/collectors that, you know, perhaps they could create 19 a hardship on individuals who couldn't register their 20 vehicles. But the programs that are operating, they are -- 21 before they flag these vehicles, they look at these cases. 22 They're completely vetted, so that they've been through a 23 process where if they do have a true indigent situation, they 24 don't get placed in -- in this category; they don't get 25 flagged. 8-22-11 108 1 And none of the -- you know, there was another tax 2 assessor/collector concerned about security, and there hasn't 3 been any problems as far as security. Another concern was 4 that it would -- as with the state initially, there would be 5 a decrease in the registration revenue based on this, and 6 that just hasn't happened. You can see, El Paso's had it for 7 quite a while, and exactly the opposite has occurred. So, 8 while there's some very positive things, there are some real 9 things that you have to consider. There -- most of those 10 things, and we've talked to Terry about it, are technical 11 issues where the DMV technical side and the Kerr County 12 technical side would need to be able to put together 13 information so that when you flag someone -- I certainly 14 wouldn't want to have my license plate restricted because my 15 son got a ticket. So, there has to be, you know, some -- 16 some technical issues resolved before you actually place the 17 flag. And that's the majority -- that's the majority of the 18 issues, getting those worked out. 19 MS. WEBBER: But -- excuse me -- that's where the 20 probe and all of that comes in, the scrub, so you can see, 21 okay, this name does not match up with this license plate, 22 and so you wouldn't place that person on Scofflaw. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that -- that initially 24 these were for Class C misdemeanors? 25 MR. LEHMAN: Yes, sir. 8-22-11 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now they're, of course, Class B 2 misdemeanors -- 3 MR. LEHMAN: Well, any level. You can -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any level? Felonies? 5 MR. LEHMAN: Yeah. If fines, court costs, fees are 6 owed, you can -- you can flag. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Any other 8 questions for these fine folks from O.C.A.? 9 MS. BOLIN: I do have a comment about Scofflaw. 10 Scofflaw has been discussed several times between Terry and 11 I, and I do have a concern about the security. I have spoken 12 to Ector and El Paso County. They have security in their 13 offices. El Paso County actually created within their tax 14 office a little -- there's Sheriff's deputies that are 15 actually in the tax office that do nothing but deal with 16 these people. And I -- I'm sorry, but in the state of 17 things, and with us having the lines that we have and the 18 people's tempers being so short, I don't think it's a good 19 idea. We're already paying a law firm to do this, if Terry 20 would turn it over to them. 21 MS. WEBBER: Okay. But doesn't -- don't you guys 22 deny people every day for different reasons? 23 MS. BOLIN: Not generally. 24 MS. WEBBER: So, if they don't have a certain -- or 25 correct information, you don't -- you don't ever deny anybody 8-22-11 110 1 for their registration? 2 MS. BOLIN: Well, sure you do. 3 MS. WEBBER: Okay. 4 MS. BOLIN: That's the normal process of business, 5 but it doesn't happen every day. 6 MS. WEBBER: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know you -- 8 MS. BOLIN: We only do the reciprocity with the 9 other counties. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know you need to have, I 11 think insurance -- I mean, everyone knows you have to have 12 insurance, got to have a registration form, you have to have 13 money. 14 MS. WEBBER: That's correct. I was just saying you 15 do deny people every day. And just because they have court 16 costs and fines, you think because -- because they have court 17 costs and fines, that it would anger them that you're denying 18 them? 19 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. We've had it happen. 20 MS. WEBBER: That hasn't -- 21 MS. BOLIN: Because it's been in other counties, 22 and we uphold that part. If it's there and we know what 23 county it is, we tell them they have to take care of it, and 24 they aren't happy people. 25 MS. WEBBER: Well, so far we haven't had an issue 8-22-11 111 1 with it. I know why you're concerned, though. I do 2 understand your concern about security, but we haven't had an 3 issue, or no one's coming to us about an issue about 4 security. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Ms. Uecker's wanting 7 to say something. 8 MS. UECKER: My friend, Jim -- I don't think I've 9 ever disagreed with him on anything, but I'm going to today. 10 MR. LEHMAN: Okay. 11 MS. UECKER: Look, I understand that this might be 12 a good thing for municipal court or on a Class A misdemeanor, 13 where the fine might be 50 bucks, or the court cost total, 14 and/or where a person is deliberately snubbing their nose at 15 the system and saying, you know, "Screw you, I'm not going to 16 pay this." However, most of these folks made a mistake; 17 they're trying to do the right thing, and if you deny them -- 18 if they're having a hard time and you deny them their vehicle 19 registration, you may as well cut off their feet. How are 20 they going to get to a job to pay a fine of $5,000 on a 21 felony? I can tell you right now, I've talked to the judges, 22 and this is not happening for felonies. It's just not 23 happening. So -- and I think it's -- you know, I'm surprised 24 Rusty's not standing up screaming and hollering, 'cause he 25 doesn't have room for those people in his jail. So, that's 8-22-11 112 1 my point. Sorry, Jim. 2 MR. LEHMAN: No, that's fine. 3 MS. WEBBER: Well -- 4 MR. LEHMAN: Let me -- I'd like to make a comment. 5 First of all, you know how much I appreciate your input, and 6 I do not disagree with you. I think with anything, your 7 program has to be worked -- your process has to be worked 8 through to what's going to accommodate and what's going to 9 work for you. What do you want it to look like? It's 10 completely left up to you, just like you created your 11 collection department. Your collection department is similar 12 to other programs, but it's unique to Kerr County. Your -- 13 your program here would be the same way. And as Daphne 14 intimated, I've always been a big advocate that the -- the 15 threat is often much more successful than the -- the actual 16 flag. And -- you know, and I think at one time, the worst 17 day of my life was when my mom said, "Wait till your daddy 18 gets home." That worked for me. 19 And the same situation for here. I mean, I think a 20 good media campaign before you flag anybody, letting people 21 know that you're doing this, when you're doing it, how it's 22 going to work, will bring in a much bigger response, clear 23 many more warrants. Put the people in contact with the right 24 people to get it started, and then you have to have something 25 in place to insure -- depending on what level. If you're not 8-22-11 113 1 going to do a felony, that's fine. If you're going to focus 2 on Class C, that's fine. It's your program. But I do think 3 you should have your collections department vet every one of 4 these so that you're comfortable that you're not putting 5 somebody in that position, Linda. I think they have the 6 capability of doing that. But as with everything, you have 7 the control. It's your program. 8 MS. WEBBER: So, what you're saying, just because 9 they owe courts costs and fines doesn't actually mean you 10 have to put a flag. If they do have a flag, you can always 11 take it off if you see that that person is really trying to 12 pay. And, yes, if they have a $5,000 fee and they can't pay 13 that, but you see they are trying, don't put the flag on 14 there. 15 MR. LEHMAN: Or you can have someone who comes in 16 whose situation is changed since you put the flag on. Well, 17 you're not going to lose control of it. The court doesn't 18 lose control of it. If that defendant goes back to 19 collections, and -- or goes back to the court and says, you 20 know, "When this occurred, I had a job, and I understand why 21 you did what you did." You can remove the flag. You'll 22 always have -- just like you can with a warrant; you'll 23 always have control. It's your program. You put it together 24 like you want to put it together. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The flag -- flag could be something 8-22-11 114 1 that would -- the lifting of the flag could be at the 2 discretion of the collections office? 3 MR. LEHMAN: Absolutely. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ms. Webber, thank you for 6 coming. 7 MS. WEBBER: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll just also say to you 9 that I know that Linda made some comments here. We have had 10 several meetings discussing -- there's obviously pros and 11 cons -- 12 MS. WEBBER: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- that we see from our 14 community. But I thank you for coming. 15 MS. WEBBER: Thank you for your time. 16 MR. LEHMAN: Thanks for having us. 17 MS. WEBBER: Thank you very much. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more with regard to this 19 particular agenda item? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda said something about 21 we're going to have to cut their feet off. How much does a 22 dadgum doctor cost now? (Laughter.) This thing has gone up 23 in a heartbeat, I'll tell you. 24 MS. UECKER: I would actually -- I don't know who's 25 liaison for collections, but I would actually like -- I guess 8-22-11 115 1 that's why I'm looking at you. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 3 MS. UECKER: Like a list of all of the felonies 4 that have been turned over to Perdue and Brandon. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 6 MS. UECKER: I mean, this Court approved that 7 program, and I don't think it -- I don't know if it's 8 happening. I'd like to see if it's happening. But in 9 talking to Ms. Glover from Perdue, I don't -- I don't think 10 it is. That -- I think some have been sent -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was that -- let's see. 12 Our local people, we're going to try to collect, and if they 13 couldn't get it collected over a certain period of time, they 14 were going to turn it over. 15 MS. UECKER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MS. UECKER: And it doesn't cost the county 18 anything. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why didn't we ask Terry when 20 she was sitting here? 21 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I don't know why. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 90 days, right? 23 MS. UECKER: I think it's 90 days. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 90 days, okay. I will get 25 that report. 8-22-11 116 1 MS. UECKER: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Try to help -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Liaison, that would be 4 good information when you find out. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I will take care of it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess another issue -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that I heard raised was what 9 discretion or authority does each particular judge have to 10 determine whether or not an outstanding amount due to the 11 county is placed or not placed under any particular 12 collections program? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. That's a 14 really good question. Are you going to get that answer to 15 that one? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another note. 17 MS. UECKER: Well, and I think also, you heard 18 Mr. Lehman say Scofflaw's been in effect since 1998. There's 19 not many takers, because most of the counties feel like I do, 20 you know. It's just -- we just don't want -- we don't want 21 those people in jail. We don't -- we want them to keep 22 trying to pay their fines and court costs. Times are tough. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it seems like it would 24 increase personnel costs somewhere. 25 MS. UECKER: Absolutely. 8-22-11 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I just don't see how 2 it's not going to -- someone is going to have to do the 3 flagging; someone's going to -- 4 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And a flag could fall through 5 the cracks; then you've got a volatile situation in the tax 6 office. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I was going to say, Linda -- 8 go ahead. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You actually already have a 10 means and a method. The courts try locally to -- to work 11 with the people and collect those fines and costs that they 12 can. Once it gets past that point where they're not being 13 able to do that, then yes, the warrants get issued. The 14 person comes to jail. Now they either extend probation or 15 they put them back on, you know, a longer period to collect 16 it, lay it out, but there is a way. And then on your Class 17 C's -- Judge Billeiter's sitting in here. I believe a lot of 18 those now are sent straight into Austin, and the driver's 19 license gets flagged to where they can't renew their 20 individual driver's license until those fines and that are 21 paid. And that -- that collects a lot of it, and it puts it 22 more directly on that person, not on daddy's vehicle when 23 it's kids doing it or something else. So, I think you've got 24 ways of doing this currently. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I was going to say, Linda, 8-22-11 118 1 the other thing, last time we had that meeting, that list of 2 counties has dwindled. 3 MS. UECKER: I'm sure. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I mean, seriously, we have 5 13; I want to say when we looked at that list, it was more 6 like 21. So, that's another thing that I've seen, so these 7 people aren't participating. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, there's another way to 9 look at this whole thing, too, is that the courts set these 10 fines and say, "Collect these fines," and our collections 11 department -- we tell them to collect the fines, and they're 12 trying to collect the fines. That's -- you know, I don't 13 think that they're out trying to beat up anybody or -- but 14 they're doing what we're asking them to do. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, if we're going -- if we 17 feel like they're being -- this particular Scofflaw thing and 18 other tools like that is too strong, then we need to say 19 that. Otherwise, they're going to do their job. I mean, 20 it's that simple to me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we wrung that one out? Let's 22 go to Item 19; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 23 to, one, terminate the Inmate Boarding Agreement between the 24 City of Kerrville and Kerr County, effective 90 days 25 following written notice. Two, authorize Kerr County to 8-22-11 119 1 provide written notice to the City of Kerrville of the 2 termination of the Inmate Boarding Agreement, and/or invite 3 City of Kerrville to enter into a new interlocal agreement 4 between the County of Kerr and City of Kerrville, Texas, 5 providing for the housing of city prisoners. We got the 6 Sheriff and the County Attorney on this. Who's going to run 7 with it? 8 MR. HENNEKE: Rusty -- Rusty's going to let me have 9 a turn. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's considerate of him. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Under the statute, gentlemen, the 12 Sheriff is not required to take responsibility for a person 13 arrested by city police until that person's been taken before 14 a magistrate and committed to the city -- to the county jail. 15 And furthermore, absent an interlocal agreement, the Sheriff 16 has no duty to incarcerate or put in county jail a person 17 who's accused only of violating a municipal ordinance. And 18 the entities may contract for the City to pay the County to 19 house prisoners awaiting magistration, and violators of 20 municipal ordinances. Y'all may recall that many years ago, 21 the City had its own jail and operated its own jail, and 22 still has the option of doing that. But I believe it was in 23 1985 or '86 that Kerr County and the City of Kerrville 24 entered into an interlocal agreement whereby the County 25 agreed to house city prisoners. We are still operating under 8-22-11 120 1 that agreement. That agreement, in I think '89, was amended 2 to make it automatically renewable on a year-to-year basis. 3 But under the existing agreement, by agreement, we are only 4 -- we are not charging the City to house its prisoners, 5 except for violators of their city municipal ordinances, for 6 which we're charging $35 a day. Everything else, we -- we 7 have agreed and we're continuing to operate under that 8 25-year-old agreement that there is no fee. And before we 9 could even agree to house the prisoners, we have to have the 10 interlocal agreement. 11 So, the question for the Court -- I think the 12 Sheriff has had conversations with Chief Young at Kerrville 13 Police Department about updating that agreement to charge a 14 fee for the housing of city prisoners. And what I mean by 15 that is -- is, you know, let's say that a gentleman's had too 16 much to drink and is arrested Thursday night going home for 17 driving while intoxicated. It's not until Friday morning 18 that that person's going to be brought before the magistrate. 19 And under the statutes, until that person is magistrated, 20 then by law that person becomes the responsibility of the 21 Sheriff. And until that magistration occurs, if there's not 22 an interlocal agreement, the Sheriff -- you know, that's not 23 his prisoner. He does not have an obligation to take 24 responsibility for that person. 25 So, what this would -- how this works, and how it's 8-22-11 121 1 already working, is that the County and the City can make an 2 agreement whereby the City, instead of having to set up its 3 own jail again and have jailers and have a jail facility, 4 they can pay the County to house those prisoners until those 5 prisoners are presented for magistration. Also, you've got 6 your municipal ordinance violators, and the County can agree 7 to house those individuals when they are sent to jail because 8 they haven't paid their municipal fines. So, under the 9 agreement, the agreement continues in perpetuity until it's 10 terminated. And the terms of the agreement that are in place 11 require a 90-day termination notice. Now, the -- I 12 originally contacted -- after the Sheriff and Chief Young had 13 their conversation, I tried to contact the City Attorney back 14 in April. I sent him the rough draft that was worked out, 15 asked him if he'd review and respond as to the City's 16 position. And I think I followed up once or twice, but I 17 never heard anything back since then. Right now it's a great 18 deal for the City, because they're getting those services for 19 free. So, after speaking with the Sheriff and with Judge 20 Tinley, I put this on the agenda just to bring the issue 21 before the Court's attention. Now, in order to enter into a 22 new agreement, we need to terminate the existing agreement. 23 And then I would want the Court's direction as to the terms 24 and costs and rates moving forward. I do believe that the 25 Sheriff and Chief Young have, you know, between themselves 8-22-11 122 1 talked about the terms that are included in the attached 2 draft to the backup, which is $45 per day for a minimum of 3 one day. But, certainly, if there's other direction for the 4 Court, or if one of you gentlemen wants to take the lead in 5 negotiating or -- or whatever, I don't know, but please tell 6 me how you'd like for me to proceed. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, were you under the 8 impression that you and the Chief had struck a bargain on -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on how to proceed? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Back in about April. 12 MR. HENNEKE: April/May, or March/April. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: March/April, the Chief and I 14 did have a meeting at my office and sat down and discussed 15 it. And if you'll remember, last year when we set sheriff 16 fees, we tried to cover some of this issue by going up. 17 Well, I let them know what was in it, and I got it thrown 18 real quick back at me that the Attorney General's office says 19 you can't enforce those sheriff's fees on housing inmates 20 unless there was an interlocal agreement. And they pulled 21 out a 1986 interlocal agreement that I didn't even remember 22 we had, and said, "We're staying with it." So, you know, we 23 couldn't enforce the new sheriff's fees. We had an older 24 interlocal agreement. The chief and I did meet in March or 25 so, sat down, and we both came to what we felt was 8-22-11 123 1 satisfactory on both of our parts on paying. 2 They -- as Rob said, they had never paid for 3 anything above a Class C; hadn't paid for a Class C, except 4 for new municipal court ordinances. And what the law does 5 say, and several counties had done, is that until they've 6 seen a magistrate, or unless they're "properly committed," is 7 the wording. If they were actually arrested on a warrant, 8 they're properly committed; we don't charge them at that 9 point. But other than that, it's until they've seen a 10 magistrate, and it's at least one day. So, that means it 11 would help cover the cost of booking in and releasing all 12 these Class C misdemeanors that are getting arrested tonight 13 for public intoxication and get out in the morning. We 14 weren't getting anything over that, and that takes about five 15 hours -- five hours of manpower to deal with that person, and 16 we're -- you know, the County was paying for every bit of it. 17 So, I felt we needed to change that. 18 We came to it after this came out on the agenda. 19 We hadn't heard from the City since April. All of a sudden, 20 my phone was ringing, and several of us were talking. There 21 were a couple other changes made to it last Friday that Rob 22 has sent over to the County -- City Attorney now. And 23 hopefully, with y'all's blessing, I think the agreement we 24 have constructed to see if the City will sign is an equitable 25 agreement. The County's not going to get rich off it; City's 8-22-11 124 1 not going to go broke off of it, but we are taking care of 2 what the costs are to house these inmates, probably making $2 3 or $3 on top of that, but that's about it. But it does cover 4 the County's costs, and I think we needed to do that. And 5 that's kind of where we're at. I think -- did you attach a 6 copy of it with the -- 7 MR. HENNEKE: On the backup, I did. I've made a 8 couple of non-substantive revisions based on my conversation 9 with the Sheriff since I sent Jody the backup, but 10 essentially, what I have reviewed there is sufficient as to 11 forming a draft interlocal that's attached as -- as backup. 12 And if that's acceptable to the Court, then -- then we can 13 invite the City to execute that, and move forward. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, really, what we're doing 15 today and what this agenda item says, since we hadn't heard 16 anything since April and we couldn't get them moved, this 17 agenda item is to send them the termination notice on the 18 1986/'89 agreement, okay? Once we send them that, then it 19 forces their hand. We've got to have something going 20 forward. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henneke, you said that March or 22 April, after the Sheriff and the Chief met, that you 23 forwarded something to the City of Kerrville City Attorney? 24 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And asked him to respond, I assume? 8-22-11 125 1 MR. HENNEKE: I did. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And you had a follow-up request 3 from -- to ask him for what his thoughts or response was 4 since then? 5 MR. HENNEKE: I did. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And have had no response from him? 7 MR. HENNEKE: Not until this last Friday. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: After the agenda item came out. 9 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: After the agenda item was published. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Correct. After the agenda item was 12 published, the Sheriff was contacted by the Police Chief, 13 and -- and Friday, I received an e-mail from the City 14 Attorney. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Just now getting around to it, was 16 he? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, actually, part of this is 18 back when all the emergency services contracts were going. I 19 did not want to bring this all in on that and create an even 20 bigger storm than what everybody was going through, so we 21 sent it over to get the legal part of it all worked out 22 between the two attorneys, and just kind of let it stay 23 quietly. We didn't. We would have loved to have heard back 24 from him during that. 25 MR. HENNEKE: I tried to follow up. 8-22-11 126 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We didn't. But, you know 2 we're at the point all that's done. We still hadn't heard 3 anything until this agenda item comes out. So, I agree with 4 the County Attorney that it's time to send the notice, get 5 the thing off high center, 'cause we want it to be able to 6 take effect October 1 with the new budget, and go from there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- go ahead, Buster. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the -- I can't 9 remember exactly what you said about the magistration; that 10 you required magistration before they come to your jail? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. If -- well, if I don't 12 have any agreement, what this does is they don't technically 13 -- unless it's -- if it's an on-view arrest, okay? Don't -- 14 don't throw away warrant arrest. If it's an on-view arrest, 15 they are technically not the responsibility of the Sheriff 16 until they have been legally committed to the jail. The 17 magistration, the judge coming in and reading them their 18 rights and setting bond, is the legal commitment to that 19 jail, and that's where they become my responsibility. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, where is -- 21 where are we in that -- on that point? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we're trying to do, and 23 what's set out in this new agreement is that if it's an 24 on-view arrest, say a public intoxication, he comes to jail 25 tonight, okay? He gets magistrated and released in the 8-22-11 127 1 morning. He's not mine until technically he was magistrated, 2 and he -- on Class C's, normally they're released 3 immediately. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hate to interrupt you. I 5 have a question on that point, 'cause it goes back to another 6 discussion we've had going on with the City for about three 7 years. Who's doing the magistration? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where we're going. 9 MR. HENNEKE: Our J.P.'s. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our J.P.'s are doing the 11 magistration. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What if our J.P.'s say -- what 13 if we say we're not going to magistrate? Our J.P.'s are not 14 going to do it unless they help pay a fee to cover that cost? 15 'Cause they refuse to do a magistration. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what my cost is -- and I 17 understand what you're saying. My cost -- and I have to keep 18 this separated -- is the housing cost. What does it cost the 19 Sheriff to deal with this? If there can be some other 20 interlocal agreement between the J.P.'s and the City of 21 Kerrville, okay, or the municipal court to do magistration, 22 that's -- that's fine, but what I have to concentrate on is 23 my housing cost. I'm not there to collect the J.P. -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does the law say about 25 them being magistrated before they become yours? 8-22-11 128 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They aren't mine until they're 2 magistrated, unless there's a warrant issued. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? Now, one thing we've 5 got to be careful about -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's responsible for 7 magistrating in the city? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing -- wait. Any judge, 9 okay? Judge Tinley can magistrate. Judge Brown can -- any 10 judge, all right? Now, the issue is -- 'cause this has 11 happened. The city officers started going to the -- the 12 municipal judge to get these warrants, all right? And this 13 can happen, because the magistrate has the authority to set 14 bonds. I cannot interfere with that authority. And normally 15 there's some protocol in there, but we were getting 16 misdemeanor theft warrants with $10,000 and $20,000 bonds on 17 them. We're going to lose on that, because they're in our 18 jail, and I'm having to pay for them. And once they're in 19 there after that one day -- well, if they're on the warrants, 20 we're responsible for them from that point on, not the City. 21 So, you know, until that inmate gets a -- gets an attorney, 22 files a habeas corpus hearing, tries and gets that bond 23 reduced, we're going to be on the short end of that stick. 24 It's going to cost us more. There's a lot of different ways 25 of looking at where do you want that magistrate going? I 8-22-11 129 1 think if there can be an interlocal agreement between the 2 City and the County on magistration purposes, where the City 3 helps fund part of that magistration, that's fine. But if 4 they just say, "No, we're not going to," or I try and tack it 5 onto a housing bill -- a housing agreement, I think -- I 6 don't -- I'm not for that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- maybe I'm not 8 asking the question right. I have a problem with that. If 9 our J.P.'s don't magistrate the city prisoners, is it not 10 going to encourage the City to figure out how to help pay for 11 this cost? Because they're going to be paying $45 a day 12 until they're magistrated. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You've got to have them 14 magistrated within 48 hours, and I will have to take them to 15 a judge to have them magistrated. And I don't have that -- 16 MR. HENNEKE: If they're at the jail, then Rusty 17 has to present them to a magistrate within that time period. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why can't we get the city 19 judge to come and magistrate them? If not, call Judge Brown 20 at home and see if you can't get him down here. What would 21 -- what's the difference in the difficulty? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As far -- I've lost you on 23 that, Buster. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know I lost you. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not unusual. 8-22-11 130 1 (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Why -- why didn't Mark 3 Prislovsky come magistrate his own prisoners? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The reason I was told, okay, 5 during one of our meetings over some other issues and that is 6 that they didn't have the budget for it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about getting 8 in a car -- oh, they do now, believe me. We sent enough 9 money over there to hire a bunch of new judges, actually. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just telling you what 11 their court person told me. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you can't do that, then 13 call -- wake up Judge Brown; see if you can't get him down 14 there to magistrate. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that -- for the last 30 16 years, you know, Kerr County J.P.'s have rotated magistration 17 and there's one on-call. Now, if they don't want to do that, 18 you know, it's going to cause some issues. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been trying for three 20 years to work this out with the City, and the City's refused. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. But this issue that -- 22 the thing is, we're graying the lines. The issue that I have 23 to address is housing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not magistration. There needs 8-22-11 131 1 to be a separate deal between -- with the magistration. That 2 needs to be dealt with. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe -- yes. Maybe now, if we 4 terminate the agreement, everything's on the table, the way I 5 see it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And you may -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may not like it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- see the rest of it at risk for 11 you. This business of -- on a -- what, a 5 to 50 theft, 12 setting a $10,000, $20,000 bond on it, I would suspect 13 whatever magistrate issues that is going to end up before the 14 Commission on Judicial Conduct for abuse of process. But 15 that's a whole 'nother issue. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every bit of those reasons why 17 there would be that kind of bond can -- can all be that 18 Judge's own interpretation. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I got one question, though. 21 One question, Commissioner. How many free days annually do 22 you think that we are -- we're probably providing? I'm just 23 curious, budget-wise. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Free days -- 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We talked about the free 8-22-11 132 1 days. On an annual basis, I mean, how extensive is that? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It -- the statute says that on 3 a state offense, once they're legally committed to a jail, 4 they are the Sheriff's responsibility. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? So that's once they're 7 legally committed. So, you may have every Class C arrest -- 8 that's an on-view arrest, which is probably -- they're 9 normally -- it's going to be -- I'd have to look at it; I 10 don't remember. Was it 5,000 arrests last year? Over half 11 those are ours, our warrants. You're probably -- and this is 12 a guess. I'd have to go back and look. Maybe 1,500 to 2,000 13 city arrests, okay? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Say 1,750. One day is $78,750. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On a -- yeah, but some of 16 theirs occasionally will also be on warrants, and so those 17 warrants -- that's already done. They still have to be 18 magistrated, but the warrant's been issued; they are legally 19 committed to my custody. So, what this may even do, you 20 know, going up on the grade, I may end up still with more 21 city officers going to a magistrate, whether it be one of 22 ours or a city magistrate, to get a warrant issued prior to 23 going out and making that arrest. Then when it comes to 24 jail, he's mine. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, thank you. 8-22-11 133 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I'll make a motion 2 that we terminate the Inmate Boarding Agreement between the 3 City of Kerrville and Kerr County, authorize County Judge to 4 provide written notice of same, and then invite the City of 5 Kerrville to enter into negotiations on that agreement. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 9 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you, gentlemen. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 20; to consider, 16 discuss, take appropriate action on City of Kerrville 17 property tax collection contract. Ms. Bolin? 18 MS. BOLIN: Last Thursday morning I got a call from 19 Mike Erwin from the City, and he informed me it was on their 20 consent agenda for tomorrow night to terminate our collection 21 contract for collecting their property taxes. Apparently, 22 the school is going to do it for .43 percent, where we're 23 charging them 1 percent. I'm already planning on being 24 there. What I need to know from y'all is, if I can get them 25 to renegotiate a contract with me, will you do it? At this 8-22-11 134 1 point, Mr. Parton called this morning and left a message for 2 me, and said that he was going to recommend to the Council to 3 terminate our contract. Which is -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Was last Thursday your first notice 5 of -- 6 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of this possible action? 8 MS. BOLIN: Yes. I had gotten no -- I had gotten 9 nothing from anybody. Back in April, when we went with 10 Center Point, Mr. Erwin called me and asked if we would 11 consider going down. I told him I couldn't right then; we 12 would discuss it for this next budget year for -- in December 13 or January, and he agreed. That was the last I heard about 14 it until Thursday. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How long has our contract 16 been with the City here at the county? Do you have any idea? 17 MS. BOLIN: The new one? Or -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How long have we been 19 collecting for the City? 20 MS. BOLIN: From the time the City started 21 collecting taxes. For over 40 years. 22 MR. HENNEKE: The existing agreement has been in 23 place since '85. 24 MS. BOLIN: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. My concern is just, 8-22-11 135 1 again, the issue of the inconvenience that they're causing 2 folks in our community, 'cause they're used to coming to one 3 area. 4 MS. BOLIN: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And I think that is the other 6 thing here, confusion for a lot of our older citizens in our 7 county. It's not making it -- it's not making it clear for 8 them not to negotiate or talk back with us prior to -- it 9 doesn't make any sense either, but I think they're putting a 10 lot of confusion on our citizens in our county, who are 11 mostly -- you know, a lot of -- 35 percent of them are over 12 65. It's not making it -- it's not making it pleasant for 13 them. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's the City's choice. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's -- I know, but I'm 16 going to point it out. That's the issue. 17 MS. BOLIN: We're the ones who are going to get the 18 flak from it. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: They're going to come in here 20 first. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's unfortunate. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unfortunate, but it's the 24 City's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: They have the right to do that under 8-22-11 136 1 the terms of the contract. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can send them over to the 3 school; that's fine. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ought to be collecting for 5 the school too, and get it all under one roof. 6 MS. BOLIN: My concern on this is that other 7 entities are going to follow. I did speak to Mr. Parton 8 about 6:15 last Friday, and he said that part of the reason 9 he's going with it is because it will fund two school 10 teacher's salaries for the school. So, we potentially will 11 lose some of our other entities for the same reason, which 12 is -- y'all do this, but it's income to the County. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- now, how much is the 15 school going to charge them? 16 MS. BOLIN: 41,000. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? 18 MS. BOLIN: 41,000. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And what would we charge them? 20 MS. BOLIN: Currently, this last year was 95,802. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MS. BOLIN: So it's a $54,000 difference. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You might tell them the 24 starting salary for K.I.S.D. is 40 -- about $42,000, so for 25 them to say that there's two -- 8-22-11 137 1 MS. BOLIN: That's what Mr. Troxel told him. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Oh. Well, I think starting 3 salary's over $40,000 now. 4 MS. BOLIN: Well, that's what I've heard from 5 various teachers. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think -- I would be 7 very happy to keep on doing it with the City, but if -- the 8 City obviously doesn't want to use us, so it's a one-way -- I 9 mean, what can we do? I mean, if they don't want to even 10 negotiate with us or talk to us -- 11 MS. BOLIN: Well, but if I can go to the City 12 Council tomorrow night and plead my case, and then they say, 13 "Let's negotiate," can I do that at a lower rate than the 14 1 percent? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In my opinion, yes, that 16 we'd come back and sit down. I mean, to me, that's -- this 17 is really not very competitive. Our number's not very 18 competitive. I think that we need to get a little more 19 competitive. It's just my opinion, but I would think that we 20 could come back and do that. But if they choose not to do 21 business with us, that's life. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Insofar as saying this Court giving 23 you authority to do it? I'm not comfortable with that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 25 MS. BOLIN: To negotiate the contract? 8-22-11 138 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. If they want to sit down across 2 the table like grown, reasonable human beings to talk about 3 this issue, which they've obviously chosen not to do to this 4 point, -- 5 MS. BOLIN: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I'd be happy to do that. 7 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 8 MR. HENNEKE: If I could add -- and Diane asked me 9 to visit. I tried to reach out to the City Attorney on -- at 10 the end of last week, because we weren't -- we didn't 11 understand, you know, at the very eleventh hour, without any 12 kind of advance warning, you know, if this was -- where the 13 issue was in this. And I very pointedly tried to find out 14 from the City Attorney, is this an issue of price, or is this 15 an issue that the City doesn't want to do business with the 16 County? And, you know, we had several e-mail exchanges back 17 and forth. They sent me a copy of the backup for tomorrow 18 night. I still can't answer that question, after some very 19 direct and pointed questions of just -- which is it? Is this 20 -- you know, do y'all want to negotiate, but we just need to 21 talk about price? Or y'all aren't interested? And I can't 22 answer that question, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the only clue, I would say, is 24 apparently it's on the consent agenda. 25 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 8-22-11 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which tells me it's a done deal. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, maybe I'm mistaken, but that's 4 generally what goes on the consent agenda. I think it's -- 5 the whole issue is good faith. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there any contract where 7 they have to give us notice or anything? 8 MS. BOLIN: In the contract that we currently have 9 that was between them and Paula, because it just renews 10 automatically, they have to notify us by September 1 to 11 terminate on January 31st, which is what they're going to do. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- question. What is -- I 13 know you said it's revenue to the County. 14 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How does this impact staffing? 16 MS. BOLIN: In my office? To take the city away? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, how much -- I 18 mean, that's a lot of tax statements. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: About $95,000. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm talking -- not the 21 dollars. We're talking about the dollars, but we're also 22 talking the way the work -- taking away the tax statements, 23 or the collections for -- you know, basically a 30 percent 24 reduction. 25 MS. BOLIN: Pretty close. 8-22-11 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, pretty close. 2 MS. BOLIN: But we've gained two school districts 3 this year, and I only have two people working my tax 4 department. The other one is a full-time bookkeeper now. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that one, 7 gentlemen? Let's move on to Item 25; consider, discuss, take 8 appropriate action to approve matching fund for First 9 Responder equipment grant application with Homeland Security. 10 I put this on the agenda. We've had some -- Ms. Lavender, as 11 you'll recall, found a grant which indicated a priority to 12 First Responders, and we were trying to get the First 13 Responder Coordinator, Eric Maloney, from the City to see 14 if -- number one, firstly, when we told him we were going to 15 be looking to grant funding, to put together that grocery 16 list of ideally the total equipment needs of everybody in the 17 program, defibs for everybody, radios and so forth, and he 18 had agreed to do that. Ms. Lavender then found this grant 19 that has to be submitted by a fire department, and she 20 suggested to Mr. Maloney that the Kerrville Fire Department, 21 inasmuch as the First Responder program is technically under 22 the -- Mr. Maloney and the Kerrville Fire Department for 23 administrative purposes, to apply for this grant. 24 And I -- I've got a copy of an e-mail at 5 o'clock 25 last Friday that says -- from Eric Maloney, Kerrville Fire 8-22-11 141 1 Department -- EMS is going to pursue the grant for 2 stretchers; therefore, we will not be able to apply for both 3 stretchers and the First Responder equipment. I don't know 4 about the actual validity of that statement, whether there's 5 an exclusive inability to do both, but I had a conversation 6 with the City Manager at 4 o'clock last Friday. He was about 7 to go into a meeting, and I suggested to him that because 8 First Responders were given priority under this particular 9 grant program, -- the Kerrville Fire Department, whatever 10 they applied for, indicated last year they applied and were 11 not funded -- that maybe with First Responder requests in 12 there, it may help prop up whatever they wanted. The City 13 Manager thought that was a good idea. Now, what discussion 14 there was between he and Mr. Maloney, I don't know, but I'm 15 beginning to get the impression that the City of Kerrville 16 thinks we have a disease or something over here. 17 MS. LAVENDER: I talked -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They don't want anything to do with 19 us. 20 MS. LAVENDER: I talked to Mr. Maloney about five 21 minutes after 5:00 Friday afternoon, after you had talked to 22 Mr. -- to the City Manager, and he said -- or he told me that 23 the grant only allowed the City to apply for money in one 24 funding stream in that grant, and that they intended to apply 25 for the money for the new stretchers, and that they couldn't 8-22-11 142 1 do the First Responders. And I said, "Well, we just talked 2 to the City Manager just a little bit ago, and he said we 3 could add it to the one you're doing." And he said, "Well, I 4 don't think I can do that. I'll have to look back at the 5 grant. And I have a meeting Monday and I can't come to the 6 Commissioners meeting." And that's the way we left that 7 conversation. I took the grant home again over the weekend 8 and read through it, and I never did find anything in there 9 that said that specifically you could not apply for -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Multiple categories? 11 MS. LAVENDER: Right. So, that's where we are 12 today. And I pointed out to him that this was the last 13 Commissioners Court meeting that there would be before the 14 deadline for the grant, so if we had to commit funds for the 15 match, that we would need to know if that was possible, and 16 I've not heard anything else from him. And he has my cell 17 phone number, and I've had it on all meeting while we've been 18 in here this morning. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Appears they're trying to 20 kill our First Responder program now too. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can a -- it has to be -- could 22 the County apply for this through one of the volunteer fire 23 departments? 24 MS. LAVENDER: No. The volunteer fire department 25 could apply for them, but the volunteer fire department 8-22-11 143 1 doesn't run the First Responder program, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got into a corner, didn't we? 3 MS. LAVENDER: Kind of circling the drain. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much funds are we 5 talking about? 6 MS. LAVENDER: Oh, I'd -- you know, my suggestion 7 to you, looking at it from the outside, is that we say this 8 morning we will commit up to a certain amount of money if the 9 opportunity becomes available for us to do that. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me -- answer my 11 question. 12 MS. LAVENDER: I'd probably do 5,000. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much money are we 14 talking about? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The honest answer is, I don't know, 16 because Mr. Maloney has not furnished us with that grocery 17 list of equipment and the amounts. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what did we plug in? 19 Nothing? 20 MS. HARGIS: 43. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 43. And is that a number 22 you just came up with? Or -- 23 MS. HARGIS: That's what he supplied us with. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, you got the list? 25 MS. HARGIS: Not that list. I have a -- what he 8-22-11 144 1 wanted for next year. Which didn't include -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 43? 3 MS. LAVENDER: AED's. 4 MS. HARGIS: -- AED's or anything like that. It 5 was the radio equipment. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And all this stuff that 7 we're talking about getting a grant going on is above and 8 beyond this number here? 9 MS. LAVENDER: Actually, the radio equipment and 10 the AED's are in the grant -- would be in the grant. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. LAVENDER: And the training to use the AED's. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The defibrillators? 14 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's in the grant? 16 MS. LAVENDER: That could be in the grant if we -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the AED's and 18 defibrillators are in that 4,300 -- 19 MS. LAVENDER: No, 43,000. 20 MS. HARGIS: 43,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 43,000. 43,000. 43,000. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a 10 percent grant match. And 23 what I would propose is that we agree to be obligated for 10 24 percent grant match for First Responder equipment. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to 5,000? 8-22-11 145 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that we ought to limit 2 it to that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10 percent. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 percent. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with it. 6 MS. LAVENDER: But the 43,000 doesn't include -- it 7 also includes things other than those two things, the radios 8 and the -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to have -- I hate for 11 them to -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Expanded list. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- have an expanded list and 14 have to buy a new EMS truck or something. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Put a limit on it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, 10,000 -- maybe 17 10,000. 18 MS. LAVENDER: Would you rather -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather have some kind of -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Put it -- limit the grant match at 21 10,000. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I support that. 23 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 8-22-11 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 2 authorize grant match for First Responder equipment, if the 3 opportunity presents itself, up to grant match funding in the 4 amount of $10,000. Question or discussion? All in favor, 5 signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Why don't we go to 10 Section 4 of our agenda now, payment of the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 14 bills. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget amendments. 20 MS. HARGIS: We have one late bill. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a number of budget 22 amendments. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thirty, looks like. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That time of year, isn't it? 8-22-11 147 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. HARGIS: They're really small compared to prior 3 years. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. 5 MS. HARGIS: They're wonderful. And if you note, 6 thanks to Rosa and her crew, we're not moving money into 7 defense attorneys; we're moving it out into other areas, so 8 that's -- I've not seen it since I've been here, so it's 9 great. But they are -- they're small amounts, and we're 10 doing amounts that we think that can carry them to the end of 11 the year, not just for what they've asked for. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Questions on any of it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of Budget Amendment Requests 1 through 30, as 17 presented. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 18 signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. We have a late 23 bill, Abel Irrigation. That is the final on the irrigation 24 system out at the Sheriff's Office annex. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 8-22-11 148 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I've been presented 9 with monthly reports from District Clerk, Constable, Precinct 10 3, and Kerr County Treasurer's report and affidavit for July 11 2011. Do I hear a motion that the indicated reports be 12 approved as presented? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. All in 16 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Reports from 21 Commissioners in connection with their liaison assignments. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Three? 8-22-11 149 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Four? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Reports from elected officials? 5 Department heads? 6 MS. PIEPER: No. 7 MS. BOLIN: Collections are up from 97.19 last year 8 to 97.59 this year, so we're still maintaining our one-half 9 percent -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's about four-tenths of a 11 percentage point. 12 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 14 MS. BOLIN: Just one other thing. I'm -- I know 15 the Judge has my drop-dead dates on -- for setting the tax 16 rate, but we're getting real close, and so we need to do 17 something. If possible, do something. Do you know when we 18 might be close to having our first little hearing? I think 19 September the 8th is the date that I have -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got another workshop for 21 tomorrow, and -- 22 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I'm hopeful that that may be the 24 last workshop. 25 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 8-22-11 150 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Other elected officials? Department 2 heads? 3 MR. HENNEKE: Nothing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this time, we will go out 5 of open or public session at 12:24 for the purpose of going 6 into executive or closed session. 7 (The open session was closed at 12:24 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 8 is contained in a separate document.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it is 1 p.m. We're now in 11 public or open session. Any member of the Court have 12 anything to offer with regard to matters considered in 13 executive session? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we authorize 15 $1,200 to do a fee appraisal at 3350 Junction Highway. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wasn't it 1,250? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1,200. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 21 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-22-11 151 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any other 2 motions with regard to matters considered in executive 3 session? Now we'll be in recess until 2:45 this afternoon, 4 where we have Item 26. 5 (Recess taken from 1:02 p.m. to 2:45 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 8 were in recess until 2:45. It is that time now. The -- oh, 9 I forgot I scheduled a guardianship hearing at this same 10 time, but it's okay. Item 26 on the agenda is to consider, 11 discuss, take appropriate action to clarify details of 12 agreement between City of Kerrville and Kerr County related 13 to street paving done by Kerr County Road and Bridge 14 Department. Commissioner Oehler? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. I -- I know this 16 is late. It was late getting put on the agenda for this 17 week, but when I read the paper, I guess it was on Friday, I 18 noticed there was an article in the Kerrville Times that -- 19 regarding the County doing work, paving and sealcoating with 20 the City at no charge, other than for materials. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what it said? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what's in the paper. 23 I have a copy of it in my car. And they really appreciated 24 that, that they liked the County doing that for them, and it 25 would enable them to do a lot more street work because they 8-22-11 152 1 could buy better materials, and there was no -- no labor, no 2 -- with no equipment charge, no nothing for the County doing 3 that service to the City. And I knew that we had made 4 mention of some charges back when we first started our 5 interlocal agreement negotiations back in -- whenever it was, 6 January or February. And I thought that -- you know, that 7 they had agreed that they would pay, you know, a nominal 8 amount for the reimbursement of costs of equipment, time, and 9 manpower. Well, evidently, that -- we have never adopted 10 that formally, and never made a court order to that effect. 11 And so what you're looking at is what time that Leonard and 12 the crews have spent this year so far, without anything on 13 Arcadia Loop that they -- they're working on, or they were 14 working on it on Friday, I believe. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is this the Barbara Ann, 16 Nancy Beth, all that area? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, this is all that area 18 back over there, and this is how much -- how much equipment, 19 time, and manpower, and this is all based on the Corps of 20 Engineers and FEMA rates. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's all it is. And I 23 think that we need to clarify to the City that -- by court 24 order, that -- if that's our wish, that we be reimbursed for 25 the manpower and equipment time at those rates. I think we 8-22-11 153 1 need to do it, because otherwise, one of two things is going 2 to happen. One of them is that Leonard is not going to do 3 any more if they're not going to pay their fair share. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what kind of agreement 5 do we have with them now? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't. We have none. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let me -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the Judge is going 9 to -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let me apologize to the 11 Court. I -- I started this three, four years ago, and I -- I 12 did so on a very informal basis, with the idea of trying to 13 demonstrate that a cooperative effort between City and the 14 County could create efficiency and save our common taxpayers' 15 money. And I didn't have any expectations except that it 16 would be a cooperative effort, and -- and way of 17 demonstrating to the taxpayers about what kind of benefits 18 that could reap for them. I was basing it upon -- and I 19 think I've said so on numerous occasions, that -- that, you 20 know, I felt certain that there would be some reciprocation 21 in-kind that would follow. And, you know, we -- I didn't 22 think it was appropriate. We were just starting out small, 23 and -- and the first couple of years were pretty small. It's 24 gotten considerably larger than that now, but I fully 25 expected that good faith between parties would bring 8-22-11 154 1 reciprocation at the appropriate time and under the 2 appropriate circumstances. What I've seen just in the last 3 few months is enough to really disappoint me as to the issue 4 of good faith. We saw one issue this morning about the ad 5 valorem tax rate collection contract, without any discussion 6 whatsoever. Other instances, those of you on the Court are 7 aware of those. So, I apologize to the Court for getting you 8 into this mess. I -- I thought it was the right thing to do, 9 and I still think it's the right thing to do for the benefit 10 of the taxpayers. But when -- when not only we don't get 11 credit for providing a benefit to the taxpayers, but we in 12 fact end up suffering financially, if not more than that, 13 I -- it's based on good faith, and apparently that hasn't 14 worked. I'm sorry. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I share -- you know, I agree 16 with you, Judge. I think we all felt that way whenever this 17 started, that it -- it was a good thing for everybody, and 18 that taxpayers would benefit from it, and -- and something 19 would be reciprocated. But the only thing we get is a -- 20 something to pay. We don't get any credit for work 21 performed, and, you know, I think we all had high hopes that 22 that program would continue and would be a big benefit, but 23 so far the only benefit is to the city, is our money. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I -- I agree. I think 25 that -- you know, I don't know that we need do anything 8-22-11 155 1 really today. I would almost rather have this on the agenda 2 at our next time earlier on the agenda so that, you know, 3 more of the public is present to hear that. And I think, 4 though, that -- I mean, I think this year is pretty much 5 done. They're working on Arcadia Loop. The materials are 6 done -- need to be done. And, you know, let's make it very 7 clear; send over an interlocal agreement. If you want to 8 continue, here's the deal. And if they don't want to sign 9 it, fine. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Leonard's only other 11 concern about right now -- I mean, he's -- he's pretty upset 12 about this, because he had had two meetings with Charlie 13 Hastings and another one of the City people at Road and 14 Bridge, and emphatically stated to them that they would have 15 to pay some labor and -- and equipment cost, and there was no 16 indication that they would not do that. But he had the 17 conversation, I understand, with Charlie this morning about 18 it, and he said, you know, "Well, you're going to be getting 19 a bill for this stuff." And what's reported to me was they 20 had no intention of paying it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure they don't. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can send a bill over. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we can send a bill 24 over. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, anyway -- but Leonard's 8-22-11 156 1 concern right now is the fact that they just started Arcadia 2 Loop, and he doesn't think it's fair -- I don't either -- to, 3 you know -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pull off. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- pull off of that till 6 that's finished, because it wouldn't be fair to the people 7 that live on that road. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I would agree with that. And not 9 withstanding that, you know, maybe -- maybe the good faith 10 isn't there. Their people have gone in to do the remediation 11 to the base and leveling up or whatever else that Leonard has 12 asked them to do, or what they thought was necessary to get 13 it ready to shoot. And, you know, just -- just because 14 things have not gelled up appropriately, I think we don't 15 want to leave those people in Arcadia Loop in the switch. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wouldn't advocate that at 17 all. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I agree with that totally, 19 and I think also the people that use Arcadia Loop, some of 20 them live on it, but many of them live out Bear Creek. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And which is county residents. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's true. But, anyway, 24 that's kind of where we are, and I just thought we needed to 25 get it on the table and -- and figure out what direction we 8-22-11 157 1 want to go. Because without a court order, we'd have a real 2 hard time collecting money on it. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is the Arcadia Loop project, 4 is that about the same as what we did with all the -- the 5 Carol Ann streets and all that? Is it smaller? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, he tells me that he can 7 do that in a day, day and a half. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a lot less to it than 10 what this was. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we send, you know, 13 over a very basic interlocal agreement, and see if they want 14 to sign it. If they don't want to, well, fine. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you think we might 16 ought to get the County Attorney and Leonard to draft up 17 something for our next meeting that we could adopt? Or do 18 you think we ought to just go with a simple court order? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you probably need -- I 20 mean, a court order doesn't -- they're not going to sign the 21 court order, so the court order doesn't obligate them to do 22 anything. It just obligates the County -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're just not going to do 24 anything if they don't. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that, you know, the 8-22-11 158 1 simplest of interlocal agreements. We've got enough of them 2 floating around that Rob's worked on this year that he ought 3 to be able to cut and paste and put one together. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it should be about a 5 paragraph long. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is if we want to 8 continue with these projects. What if we don't want to 9 continue? They need to go fix their own streets. I'm 10 just -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's the other option 12 that we can do by court order. Say, "Due to the City's 13 failure to agree to pay..." We send them a bill, then do the 14 court order if they don't pay in 30 days. Or just not -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have to do this 16 thing, you know. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- it's a real 18 shame that the whole -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been abused. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The entire dealings -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Good term. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- turned to -- you know, 23 they intend to abuse the County every time they get a chance, 24 and, you know, to this point, we kind of had to go along with 25 some of that, but I don't think we need to do it in the 8-22-11 159 1 future. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what do we do with this? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just showing you the 5 -- the amount that was expended, or time. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A lot of money. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Time and material -- time 8 and -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Equipment. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- equipment time and labor 11 that was spent for the seal jobs that were done on Barbara 12 Ann and Nancy Beth and several others over there. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: My father-in-law was very 14 appreciative. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we put it on our next 16 agenda to approve interlocal -- well, put it on the agenda to 17 discuss what to do. How about that? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have an interlocal 20 ready? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we're not going to -- I 22 don't see any reason to waste the County Attorney's time if 23 we're not going to go forward with even the offer. I think 24 we -- we get the final bills in, and send -- and under a 25 court order, send them a bill. If they choose not to pay it, 8-22-11 160 1 then tell us so, 'cause our understanding was that they were 2 going to pay. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you're dealing with 4 staff that doesn't have any authority to make those kind of 5 deals, so I don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can still send a bill over 7 and do the bill under court order. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to at least advise them of 9 what we've done, if nothing else. I don't know about billing 10 them, per se, because -- but we need to advise them of this 11 information and tell them what the value of what they got 12 was. And had they gone out on the open market and contracted 13 for it, I suspect it would have been way yonder higher. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would it have doubled? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, it would be -- would be 16 way more than doubled. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: By the time you get a 19 contractor that has to bond and have insurance and all -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And gas coming in. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On and on. I mean, the cost 22 of that is way beyond of double over that. This is -- this 23 is almost nothing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At these rates, I'll have -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, I'd like to have 8-22-11 161 1 some work done at those rates, you know, but I don't think 2 it's legal. In fact, I know it's not. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can go repave the 4 country. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? 6 Buster wants to go again. So, we'll be adjourned. 7 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 3 p.m.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 10 11 STATE OF TEXAS | 12 COUNTY OF KERR | 13 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 14 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 15 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 16 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 17 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 26th day of August, 18 2011. 19 20 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 21 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 22 Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 24 25 8-22-11