1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11 1:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 23, 2011 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2011-12 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, including, but not limited to, employee health care benefits, step and grade, and staffing 5 levels 3 6 --- Adjourned 71 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, August 23, 2011, at 1:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come to order, if we 8 might, for this workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners 9 Court posted and scheduled for this date, Tuesday, August 23, 10 2011, at 1 p.m. It's a bit past that time now. The workshop 11 agenda item is to review and discuss fiscal year 2011-12 12 budgets and fiscal capital expenditure and personnel matters 13 related thereto, including, but not limited to, employee 14 health care benefits, step and grade, and staffing levels. 15 Bottom line is, if it has a dollar figure attached to it, 16 it's on the agenda. Amos Barton is here, and I'm going to 17 give him, for just a second -- give him an opportunity to say 18 something. 19 MR. BARTON: Thank you, Judge. This afternoon I 20 brought in with me Carly Atkission. Last time we talked, I 21 had referred to her as the young lady who was willing to work 22 for very little money. I wanted to put a name and a face 23 with that proposal. Again, you may remember she had 24 approached me about working to the benefit of Kerr County to 25 move cases, help -- help clear some of the people out of the 8-23-11 bwk 4 1 jail, do whatever it takes to earn her keep, for $30,000 a 2 year, and so I just wanted y'all to -- really, more than 3 anything, I don't want to take up anybody's time, but if 4 y'all want her to stand up her and put her under the gun and 5 see if she's worth her mettle, she's proven so in the 6 district court, and I -- I'd be happy to tender to you guys, 7 and y'all feel free to ask her any questions. I understand 8 that the interview process is not something that you guys 9 normally do, but this was kind of an abnormal request, I 10 think, for a young lawyer to offer to work for $30,000 a 11 year. So, that's -- that's the reason for the atypical 12 approach to this deal. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here, Carly. 14 Tell us a little about yourself. 15 MS. ATKISSION: Well, I graduated from Tivy High 16 School in 2004, went to -- that's right. That's right. 17 That's a cheerleader thing. Tivy fight never dies. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're in. (Laughter.) 19 MS. ATKISSION: Excellent. We're done. Then I 20 went to Texas A & M University, graduated in three years, and 21 just graduated from South Texas College of Law in May. And 22 now I'm here, and moved back here with my husband, who's also 23 a Tivy graduate, and from Kerrville, and I want to work for 24 Amos. I love the job. I came back and worked for him after 25 my first year of law school, and always knew I wanted to be a 8-23-11 bwk 5 1 lawyer; I just wasn't quite sure where I wanted to practice, 2 which area. And I came and worked for him, and I just loved 3 the job. I mean, this is probably a little trite to say. 4 You know, a lot of people go to law school and they want to 5 change the world. And, you know, you kind of lose that 6 idealism after you're about to take the bar. But I still 7 have it, and I really think that in the legal profession, 8 getting to work as a district attorney or getting to work for 9 the district attorney is the highest honor and privilege that 10 there is, and it's -- you really can try to do some good, and 11 it's -- it's worth it. I know y'all are probably thinking 12 I'm crazy for wanting to work for $30,000 a year, but 13 honestly, I love the work that much. And -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think you want to be a career 15 prosecutor? 16 MS. ATKISSION: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I would dare 17 say that I would give up my law license before I would be a 18 defense attorney. So, never say never, of course, but I -- 19 I'm pretty confident in that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: They got a pretty good 21 indoctrination program over there at the 198th D.A.'s office, 22 don't they? 23 MS. ATKISSION: Yes, sir, they do. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See, one of the things that's 25 little known is probably there are actually three Tivy 8-23-11 bwk 6 1 graduates up here. I'm the third. 2 MS. ATKISSION: Oh, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not necessarily the last 4 one. (Laughter.) 5 MS. ATKISSION: Well, excellent. Excellent. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's something that you 7 can't find over at the city. (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's exactly -- I think 9 that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's the leg up, guys, 11 right there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Nary a one, huh? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nary a one over there, I don't 14 believe. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if there's one 16 or not. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What was your maiden name? 18 MS. ATKISSION: Kitchens. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Kitchens. Very good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else want to throw something 21 at her? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why in the world would 23 anybody take on a young lawyer? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why would anybody want to 8-23-11 bwk 7 1 take on a young lawyer? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Too much energy for me. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You've been doing your 4 internship the last short time here. How long have you been 5 doing any kind of an internship here? 6 MS. ATKISSION: I did the first one the summer of 7 2009. It was a six-week internship, and then last summer I 8 worked the whole summer, -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 MS. ATKISSION: -- 2010. I'd come back during 11 breaks and things and just help out. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 13 MS. ATKISSION: To get in the courtroom and see 14 that light at the end of the tunnel of -- that is law school. 15 MR. BARTON: Commissioners, she's offered to work 16 from starting about three weeks ago through November for free 17 as well. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only question I have, 19 since she's really wanting to go to work for Amos -- it's not 20 the money, but has she had a psychological examination? 21 (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You got access to those, don't you? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was going to ask that, but 24 I'm not -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Make sure she gets one before 8-23-11 bwk 8 1 she goes to work for Amos. 2 MS. ATKISSION: I would be willing to submit to one 3 if that's a condition of appointment; I would submit to a 4 psych evaluation. (Laughter.) Whatever you guys need to 5 know. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate that, Carly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate you coming, and 8 you're very impressive. 9 MS. ATKISSION: Oh, thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And our biggest problem is 11 budget. 12 MS. ATKISSION: Yes, sir. Well, I appreciate your 13 time. Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Appreciate you coming 15 in. 16 MR. LOONEY: Would you make my presentation for me, 17 please? (Laughter.) 18 MS. ATKISSION: Can I just have some notes? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's how she's going to 20 make extra money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I notice some faces in here 22 that weren't in here last time. Becky Henderson. We had 23 gone around to the various elected officials and department 24 heads and asked them if they had any problems with the -- the 25 budget as it was structured for their department presently. 8-23-11 bwk 9 1 When Judge Emerson was down here last week, I told him if -- 2 if a review of his budget was something that there were some 3 issues that he had with it as it then existed, the 4 recommended budget, we'd be happy to talk to him about that. 5 And I suggested maybe he'd want you to take a look at it, and 6 then if you had some concerns, to let us know. Have you had 7 a chance to review those? 8 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir, and I don't think there's 9 any -- any questions that we have. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HENDERSON: Looks -- it looks good. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are there any other elected 13 officials or department heads that were not here the other 14 day and that didn't have the opportunity to raise issues 15 about their proposed department budgets? I don't see anybody 16 else. Well, that's good. I guess now we're going to lay it 17 over on the health benefits side, if there are not any other 18 minor issues to get out of the way. 19 MS. LANTZ: Judge? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 21 MS. LANTZ: I do have a question about indigent 22 health care. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MS. LANTZ: We didn't really discuss that last 25 time, but currently I am doing both of the programs, and plus 8-23-11 bwk 10 1 human resources. And that office really does need someone in 2 there 24 -- I mean, the hours that the courthouse is open. 3 It's more of a customer service oriented job. People do come 4 in there quite often, and it's a little bit hard for Rosa to 5 do what I've been doing. They've been coming to my office 6 and I've been handling all the indigent health information, 7 but, you know, I'm not able to take up the defense part of 8 it, and so we really, you know, need to get someone in there 9 to do the process of getting someone to fill that position. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about hiring -- you 11 know, authorizing a clerk position that would come under -- I 12 don't know if it's under H.R., or would be in that slot. I 13 don't know if it was -- we talked -- 14 MS. LANTZ: I know you and I had that discussion. 15 I think there's a concern there. Rosa does a lot of the 16 criminal background things that she looks up for indigent 17 defense, and just -- so that kind of tag-teamed. So, you 18 know, I don't have an issue with helping all I can to get 19 someone trained back up for that department. But I do -- I 20 feel like after these past two weeks, someone does need to -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be in there. 22 MS. LANTZ: In order to make sure our costs stay 23 down. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The other issue on Ms. Lavender is 25 we've got to be careful; that her position is grant-funded, 8-23-11 bwk 11 1 so the vast, vast majority -- only a very small portion of 2 her time can be spent on something other than victims 3 services because of being grant-funded, so you got to be very 4 careful about that. I would think -- let me see, Indigent 5 Health fiscal year ends the end of -- 6 MS. LANTZ: August 31st. So, September 1st we're 7 on the state fiscal year. You know, our salary and that's, 8 you know, with the County. However, the -- 9 MS. HARGIS: The County, we're on September 30th. 10 MS. LANTZ: So -- I mean, but our annual fiscal 11 year starts September 1st, so I have to have everything into 12 the State by -- within five days after the closing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What do you think about going 14 ahead and posting that position so that we can start taking a 15 look at -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And there might be -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We talked about that one when 19 we went through the reshuffle. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: She needs some help in there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to have a body, 23 someone there to talk to, answer questions, fill out some of 24 the stuff. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, H.R. Aren't you in charge of 8-23-11 bwk 12 1 posting positions? (Laughter.) 2 MS. LANTZ: So this will be my first one, right? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There you go. Got to start 4 somewhere. 5 MS. LANTZ: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This will be a 14-1? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're going to try and move 8 everything to minimum 15. 9 MS. LANTZ: Oh, one more thing. I believe that job 10 description is labeled as Indigent Health, and that was going 11 to be the other thing, to change to it Indigent Services, so 12 we can include the indigent defense in there. So, we're 13 hoping maybe to start off, you know, 15-1, or -- 'cause it is 14 a lot of work once you start doing both of them. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably indicate normal starting as 17 15-1, with consideration for higher because of skill sets, or 18 something to that effect. 19 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any other minor 21 matters that we need to get out of the way here? Okay. 22 Mr. Looney, I think it's yours. 23 MR. LOONEY: For the record, an abused insurance 24 agent named Gary Looney. As we were here last time, Judge, 25 Commissioners, we talked about the proposal that we had 8-23-11 bwk 13 1 received that morning from TAC, and that we were going to go 2 through the process then of discussing potential changes and 3 negotiations and such with Humana and TAC. We've entered 4 into those discussions. We've got a -- it's not a -- it's 5 not an actual best and final representation, because normally 6 that comes through the process of an RFP process where you go 7 through that. But we do have firm rates from Humana, and we 8 do have firm rates from the Texas Association of Counties. 9 Those rates are based on the enrollment that we have 10 presented to them at this point. Let me, if I can, walk you 11 through these two spreadsheets, and we'll go over the -- the 12 numbers as to how they flesh out as far as County 13 contribution and employee contribution. 14 The first one I'd like for you to look at is the 15 thinner of those, and in the bottom left-hand corner there in 16 the blue box, it says "Total annual premium, Humana." So, 17 we'll look at the Humana representation renewal first. The 18 way this spreadsheet is established, the way it's set up is 19 that it shows under the upper blocks up there what the 20 high-deductible health care plan is; that's our $3,000 21 deductible plan. That has 100 percent reimbursement after 22 that. The census projections show full-time positions for 23 the entire county. The current enrollment shows of that -- 24 of that -- the number of employees, how many selected that 25 particular plan, or how many are under that plan. So, we 8-23-11 bwk 14 1 want to incur an enrollment. As you go down the list, it 2 shows 144 employees are in the employee-only high-deductible 3 health care plan. Our funding element, the money that we 4 attach to the budget, is based on employees, the total number 5 of employees. 6 So, that number that you see at the very top of 7 $570, that's the number that we use to fund toward the health 8 care plan from the County's contribution. So, when you look 9 across the spreadsheet, the first column of numbers that you 10 see is the actual premium that is charged by Humana, as the 11 first employee-only, the contribution -- or the premium is 12 $453.32. That's the renewal premium that they have offered, 13 and that renewal premium is approximately 5 percent lower 14 than the current premium. Our contribution -- County 15 contribution, employer's contribution, as I said, the same 16 for every employee, so that's 570. That's sufficient to meet 17 the requirements of the premium. So, then we have the 18 contributions in yellow that the employees make toward the 19 plan. Those premiums go from 250, 250, and 450 on the 20 employee, spouse, children, and family. 21 As you can see, that's not sufficient to meet the 22 demand of the premium that's required by the insuring 23 company, which is in the first column. So, we take that 24 concept, we blend it through, and we -- and we go from 25 high-deductible plan, we go through the employee buy-up plan, 8-23-11 bwk 15 1 then our retirees and our contribution to retirees. And what 2 we end up with is a $570 factor times the number of employees 3 that are in that contribution scheme for the County. That 4 ends up to be 1.757 million, 880,000 dollars (sic). And that 5 number is in the very bottom left-hand corner in the blue 6 down there, it shows that the total contribution by the 7 County is a million, seven. That's 570 times the number of 8 active employees insured under the plan at this time. Does 9 everybody -- has everybody got that? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. LOONEY: Then we take and add into the that the 13 employees' contributions. Employee contributions come from 14 two sources; one from the high-deductible plan and the P.P.O. 15 plan, and they also come from retirees. We take that number 16 and add those numbers back into the County's contribution, 17 and we come up with a total premium revenue of $2,057,280. 18 Everybody got that number? 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. LOONEY: Then down at the very bottom, what 21 we've done is we've calculated what the total premium for the 22 annual premium would be based on the distribution of the 23 insureds that would be due and payable to Humana in this 24 particular scenario. That number, then, is a million, 890. 25 So, taking the County's contribution plus employee 8-23-11 bwk 16 1 contributions, retiree contributions, we are approximately 2 $166,000 in excess of the actual premiums that would be 3 charged by Humana for the medical plan. We also have life 4 insurance in the amount of 20,000 that we provide to every 5 employee. That's approximately $4 a month. That equates to 6 very close to $12,000 a year, so I round it off to $12,000. 7 So, our net after the $570 factor, after employees' 8 contributions, and we have a net reserve or a net savings 9 under the Humana contract of $154,000 for this next estimated 10 budget year. Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me make sure I understand a 12 couple of these numbers. If I go up to that first -- that 13 area, -- 14 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the premium for a family is 16 $1,450. The employee -- or employer is paying 570 for the 17 employee part of that, and the employee pays 450, so that the 18 County is still subsidizing that difference of 430 as well? 19 MR. LOONEY: The $570 is a funding factor. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MR. LOONEY: So that's -- every employee gets that 22 -- that credit. Once we generate all those credits, then we 23 go back and add in the employee contributions, so the $1,450 24 number is the premium that's going to be charged by Humana. 25 That is not totally supported by the 570 and the 450 8-23-11 bwk 17 1 contribution. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So who's paying the -- 3 and I -- 4 MR. LOONEY: The difference comes because the 5 credit that's generated from what the 570 generates in credit 6 over the employee premium. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the County is subsidizing, 8 basically the family and -- the spouse and the children -- 9 child care pretty substantially? 10 MR. LOONEY: Correct. Total contribution by the 11 County, and in relationship to the total contribution by 12 employees in that particular scenario, the County's funding 13 87 percent of the premium. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MR. LOONEY: So, that credit, then -- that 570 16 number is kind of the magic number that we deal with, and 17 that's -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason it's 570 is to 19 make up that subsidy? 20 MR. LOONEY: Make up the subsidy, and to -- to get 21 to the point where -- last year, that was the number, the 22 570. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That was our funding -- per-employee 24 funding number, budgetary -- 25 MR. LOONEY: That was the employee funding number 8-23-11 bwk 18 1 for last year. Moving forward for the year, we kept the same 2 number, and as a result, we're generating an additional 3 savings. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. LOONEY: That is the Humana renewal. That is 6 the renewal numbers we got from Humana. Page 2 is the -- or 7 the next spreadsheet is the proposal that was given to us by 8 Texas Association of Counties. They essentially have the 9 same benefit plan, so we go through the same scenario with 10 the same funding mechanism, and we end up with a credit of 11 $267,000. The primary reason that we see that credit being 12 generated is the differential in the premiums for the 100 13 percent contribution that we're making for the employee 14 contributions, and the contributions made in a 15 high-deductible health plan. The premiums for the P.P.O. 16 plan are very close, and you can see that they're very close 17 between Texas Association of Counties and Humana plan. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Texas Association of 19 Counties is Blue Cross? 20 MR. LOONEY: Blue Cross/Blue Shield. And we -- and 21 we did -- we asked for -- from the Texas Association of 22 Counties, we asked for what we call a geo access report, 23 which gives a listing of all the positions and all of the 24 hospitals and everything that are under their P.P.O. network. 25 We were concerned that, somehow or another, Sid Peterson may 8-23-11 bwk 19 1 not be in that network, but they are in the Blue Cross/Blue 2 Shield network, as are -- I think, Judge, that you had 3 somebody look at the network locally. We looked at it 4 locally. It appears that we've got the majority of the local 5 physicians that are in the network. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Seemed to be pretty extensive, based 7 on just a cursory examination of it. 8 MR. LOONEY: We know that there's a high 9 penetration of the contractual agreements in San Antonio. 10 That's not what we were concerned about. We're more 11 concerned about -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Local. 13 MR. LOONEY: -- here locally. So, in the -- in 14 this scenario, then, you know, what I'm looking at and what 15 we're trying to do is, last year, when we made the change 16 when we went to the fully insured plan, conceptually what we 17 wanted to do is generate enough of a reserve or savings 18 within our funding in relationship to our fully insured 19 premium to be able to continue and maintain that H.R.A. 20 program that we had in place, because the H.R.A. program, the 21 health reimbursement agreement, then is able to be used by 22 the employees to satisfy expenses that are considered to be 23 deductible expenses under these different plans. So, it 24 would help offset the deductible. Since we increased our 25 deductible up to 3,000 and increased it up to 2,500, we want 8-23-11 bwk 20 1 to be able to give something back up front to allow employees 2 even more access -- or better access, possibly, to physicians 3 that they may not have otherwise because they didn't have the 4 cash available to do so. 5 So, what we wanted to do, in taking into 6 consideration that we've got an excess in funding, my 7 recommendation was going to be that we reestablish that 8 H.R.A. program for January 1 of this coming year, for the 9 benefit of employees. If we put a $500 credit into that 10 H.R.A. program for the benefit of employees only, that 11 estimated cost for the year is $130,000. So, under either 12 circumstance, there would be sufficient funding to offset 13 that H.R.A. program. What happens with the H.R.A. program is 14 that individuals that are paying premium for their plan, but 15 that are not actually using it on a regular basis, that 16 they're -- if we try to increase premiums, reduce premiums, 17 it -- it really doesn't impact their future as far as claims 18 are concerned. But if we put in a $500 H.R.A. program, then 19 they will have immediate access to that to reimburse for 20 medical expenses, and it can be cumulative. We can allow it 21 to accumulate so that people who don't use the plan, but are 22 paying premium to it, can accumulate against that maximum 23 deductible that they have. 24 The other alternative -- the other possibility is 25 that we could potentially reduce employee contributions, 8-23-11 bwk 21 1 because we have a credit. We could reduce employee 2 contributions, or we could potentially increase benefits 3 somehow. But the increasing of benefits is really only going 4 to impact those people that use the plan on a frequent basis. 5 If we use the H.R.A. contract, then it allows individuals who 6 are not using it, or being subjected to the plan, but don't 7 have any use for it, allow them to accumulate an asset 8 against paying deductibles in the future. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, I mean, I like the H.R.A. 10 You know, it's a good plan. I'm a little concerned. A lot 11 of employees kind of -- what's a good word to use? They had 12 a pretty good account balance in their H.R.A. plan, and they 13 did not use it and it got wiped out automatically on -- on a 14 bunch. So -- and they were planning on using it, and all of 15 a sudden, it was gone. I don't think it's really -- you 16 know, I'd like to figure out a way to try to -- at least 17 people that had a balance, give them a part of their balance 18 back, give them something additional back. Maybe not this 19 year, 'cause this year I'm not sure we can even do the H.R.A. 20 again totally in this year, because I think our budget's 21 still really, really tight again. 22 MR. LOONEY: I was going to suggest, Commissioner, 23 that since we have this excess in the budget, that when those 24 moneys are set aside in that H.R.A. program, that they are 25 actually vested in that amount moving forward. They can't 8-23-11 bwk 22 1 take it with them if they leave the county, but they're 2 vested in that amount moving forward until it reaches 3 whatever maximum level we want to set it at, so that that 4 ownership then is not lost. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The use. Ownership remains with the 7 County. 8 MR. LOONEY: Ownership. It's the utilization. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But the ability to use it for health 10 benefits purposes would remain with the employee. 11 MR. LOONEY: And those dollars would only be able 12 to be used for items that would be subject to the deductible 13 under the insurance plan, so you could not use it for 14 reimbursement of co-pays. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. I know we had that 16 problem once, and we don't need that one again. 17 MR. LOONEY: We don't want that again. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500. And what was it 19 before, 600? 20 MR. LOONEY: It was 600, and it was also applicable 21 to other family members. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It went up to three years, I 23 think. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This is only employee? 25 MR. LOONEY: I think we start back and rebuild that 8-23-11 bwk 23 1 H.R.A. contract, and rebuild that H.R.A. program, including 2 that vested ownership in it, as long as they're employees. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the dollar figure? 4 $500 was how much? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 130,000. 6 MR. LOONEY: 130,000. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be 130,000 that we 8 put in the budget to cover the H.R.A.? Is that what we're 9 saying? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can -- it's in there -- it's 11 in the 1.8 million that was in our -- 12 MR. LOONEY: Right. It's -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends whether there's really 14 1.8 there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Still got an excess of 137,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at the wrong 17 one. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This one here. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I got it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it a -- what would the cost 21 be -- well, I know there's another option, I think in both of 22 them, for the employee buy-up, lower deductible and the 23 co-pay. What would the cost be to make that the standard 24 plan, rather than the $3,000 deductible? Is there -- do you 25 have that? Have you calculated it that way? 8-23-11 bwk 24 1 MR. LOONEY: Everything is based on the enrollment 2 participation. So, you know, we just have to move the 3 enrollment between the two, just figure out which way it 4 would go. But since you're paying 100 percent of their 5 premium for that, we'd automatically increase your cost by 6 the differential between the employee rates in both cases. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MR. LOONEY: The other thing that we have to be -- 10 we have to be careful about, there's a couple of caveats in 11 the proposals that are being provided by both Humana and TAC. 12 One of the caveats is that any H.R.A. program that you 13 provide to employees for the high deductible plan cannot be 14 greater than 50 percent of the actual deductible that is 15 charged against the employee. Because that -- that offsets 16 the claim functions and claim operations of the insurance 17 part of the program. So, when we do the $500 contribution, 18 it would be maxed out at $1,500. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 20 MR. LOONEY: Under that circumstance. The other 21 caveat that they have is if the participation distribution 22 changes by more than 20 percent, they reserve the right to 23 recalculate the total premium base. I'm sorry for the small 24 print, but us insurance agents actually deal with it smaller 25 than this sometimes. 8-23-11 bwk 25 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what -- what the bottom 2 line is, Mr. Looney, if -- if we peg our total contributions 3 based on the 570, under the TAC plan, utilizing the two -- 4 two different options, one total County-funded to employees 5 or the buy-up, we will have an excess contribution of 6 $267,500, and if we allocate the H.R.A. program to that, 7 it'll take not quite half of that, still leaving us a net -- 8 net excess contribution of 137,5. 9 MR. LOONEY: And one of the -- the benefits of the 10 H.R.A. process is that that's something that the Court 11 manages. If we were to make changes or alterations in the 12 other premium allocations, that's required premium 13 contribution that's made to the insurance company, and we're 14 obligated to those numbers. But the H.R.A. program, we do 15 have flexibility in being able to deal with that contribution 16 level. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- Ms. Hargis, what's 18 the -- our number in the budget? 19 MS. HARGIS: Two million, one. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2.1? 21 MS. HARGIS: 163. It's actually about -- with the 22 other groups, it came out to be 2 million, 217. And we left 23 it the same. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2 million, 17? 25 MS. HARGIS: 2 million, 217. 8-23-11 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2 million, 200? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 217 or 270? 3 MS. HARGIS: 217. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 17? Is that because of the -- 5 MS. HARGIS: The outlying groups. 6 MR. LOONEY: That includes employee contributions 7 also? 8 MS. HARGIS: No. That was our budget we put in 9 last year, because that included all the other groups that we 10 did. Some of the other groups were charged a little bit more 11 money, because we had to put them in before -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that -- is that the gross or the 13 net? 14 MS. HARGIS: Gross. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: The premium that we had displayed last 17 year was 2 million, 163, but by the time we added everybody 18 in the budget process, all of the outlying groups that 19 participated in our program, that being the 198th D.A., the 20 216th D.A., -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Programs. 22 MS. HARGIS: -- those programs, there was a little 23 bit of administrative cost. They needed their budgets early, 24 so they had a higher amount budgeted in theirs than we did. 25 So, it came out to 2 million, 217. 8-23-11 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 2 MR. LOONEY: Commissioner, I'd like to -- before 3 you -- I do need to point out an error on the spreadsheet. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. LOONEY: In the second column, it talks about 6 the buy-up plan for TAC. It shows an 80/50 plan with a 7 $2,500 deductible. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 80/20? 9 MR. LOONEY: I'm sorry, 80/50 with a 2,500 10 deductible. TAC reduced that deductible to $2,000. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're still an 80/50. 12 MR. LOONEY: Still 80/50, but from 2,500, they 13 reduced that to $2,000 on their proposal. So, the net effect 14 if you give an H.R.A. contribution for reduction of the 15 deductible, that brings that deductible down to $1,500. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That would cap the maximum 17 accumulation to 1,000, then, wouldn't it? 18 MR. LOONEY: Not on the P.P.O. network, no. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. LOONEY: The maximum accumulation would still 21 be the 1,500. Only the -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. LOONEY: Only the high deductible plan that has 24 no co-payments underneath it would be entitled. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-23-11 bwk 28 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you get the access to 2 H.R.A. under either one of them. 3 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm ready to go with TAC, 7 and I'd like to put the H.R.A. back in, pending -- see what 8 the rest of the budget looks like, final numbers, and look at 9 raises and things of that nature. I like that -- I mean, I 10 really like the H.R.A. back in there, even if we can't afford 11 the full 500. Even 300 helps a lot, 'cause it helps -- it 12 encourages people that don't have high medical expenses, but 13 do get sick, you know, once or twice a year with colds and 14 that, gets them to the doctor to get well. 15 MR. LOONEY: There's one potential expense factor 16 which we haven't clarified yet with TAC, and that is if 17 they're going to administer that $500 portion of it, or 18 whether or not we would have to have an outside administrator 19 do that. An outside administrator, maximum cost in the year 20 would be $10,000 or $11,000 a year to administer that portion 21 of it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank goodness it didn't come 24 in any higher than last year. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going in the right direction. 8-23-11 bwk 29 1 Keep it going that direction in the future. 2 MR. LOONEY: I'm trying, Commissioner. I'm trying. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think, you know, this 4 hopefully will be a long-term relationship with TAC, and not 5 be something we have to change and have all the problems that 6 you go through whenever you change companies every year. 7 This has been tough on employees. It's just -- it's hard to 8 get used to it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 10 MR. LOONEY: Thank you very much. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure we want you to run off 13 just yet. 14 MR. LOONEY: All right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm not sure we need you to 16 stay right there, but -- (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just don't leave the building. 18 MR. LOONEY: Where's -- where's that attorney? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't want her; she's a 20 prosecutor. 21 MR. LOONEY: Oh. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And, Ms. Hargis, the -- have you had 23 a chance to digest these numbers prior to just the last few 24 minutes? 25 MS. HARGIS: No. 8-23-11 bwk 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would it be unfair for me to 2 ask you a question if those numbers, including the H.R.A., 3 will work within the current allocations of -- of the budget 4 as you presently have it? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: They would work? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Our share -- I mean, any of 8 these plans, basically, that he's presented today would work, 9 even with the H.R.A., 'cause there's a savings. Even if you 10 went through the buy-up and didn't do the H.R.A., it's still 11 under what we're paying now, so the amount we have in the 12 budget right now is sufficient to cover probably any of the 13 ways that you want to go. Gary and I did discuss that prior 14 to the meeting, but I didn't have the figures. So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: -- we've already discussed that. And 17 so -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, with the numbers as presented, 19 you feel comfortable that you're not going to have to carve 20 up the budget -- 21 MS. HARGIS: No. And I would -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- within what you've allocated? 23 MS. HARGIS: And I'd prefer leaving it at this 24 level until -- because we can't make this decision till we 25 get closer, and then we're already out of budget, so it's 8-23-11 bwk 31 1 better to have a little bit of leeway. Then, if you decide 2 to go $500 or $300 or whatever you want to do, then you have 3 that leeway of doing that. And then -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now, the H.R.A. could cover 5 500? 6 MS. HARGIS: It could cover 500. It's 150,000 that 7 we figured. We -- at 260 employees. And you're limiting it 8 now to employees only, which is what we got to, as you 9 recall, the last year we had it. So, Commissioner Letz has a 10 good point, though. I would hate to put that back out there 11 again without some kind of assurance to the employees that 12 they would -- either you use it or lose it at the end of the 13 year, or we roll it, one of the two. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And guaranteed to keep -- 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Because if -- if they're trying 16 to do their wellness, and they get to where they have half 17 their deductible, and then all of a sudden, oops, we take it 18 away again, it doesn't look real good for -- they don't have 19 a lot of faith in us at that point. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're just going to use it as 21 fast as they can every year. 22 MS. HARGIS: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is not the purpose. 24 MR. LOONEY: That's not the purpose. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask this question in that 8-23-11 bwk 32 1 regard, then. Let's suppose you've got a longtime employee 2 that's approaching retirement, and they build up their H.R.A. 3 savings to 1,500, and they retire. Would they be able to 4 roll that for the purpose of utilizing it against their 5 retiree premiums, for example? 6 MS. HARGIS: That would be up to the Court. I 7 don't think so, no, because it's -- 8 MR. LOONEY: You can't use the H.R.A. accumulations 9 for premium paying purposes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: How would you get -- 11 MR. LOONEY: You'd only be able to use it for 12 deductible expenses that they might incur under the plan 13 moving forward. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's the question. Does 15 it -- could it roll over into the H.R.A. for deductible 16 against their insurance? Deductibles? That would be kind of 17 complicated, wouldn't it? 18 MS. HARGIS: That's if they chose to stay with us. 19 And, you know, most of the retirees now, if they're -- that's 20 only going to be those between 60 and 65 that would even get 21 that. So, if they retired, you know, at 65, they have to go 22 off the plan. So, I think people that are close to 23 retirement age realize that if they don't use it, they're not 24 going to get it. I think we have to stop it. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it'll just help build a 8-23-11 bwk 33 1 reserve, basically. Build -- be there for future years, to 2 maybe -- 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, and it was mentioned to me that 4 perhaps a better educational plan on insurance might be a 5 good thing to have. Our new H.R. Director has brought up to 6 me the fact that our flu shots are covered under our 7 insurance; that we didn't know they were free under there 8 before. And, you know, some of the shots that we can get 9 that are free under our policies that we're not aware of, 10 things of that nature, I think if we made those available to 11 the employees by going through that policy, and during -- 12 during open enrollment, have that available so we can 13 understand it, would be great. You know, I think that Dawn 14 has a lot of experience trying to find the best possible way 15 to get health insurance for folks, and she seems to already 16 be bringing those points to the table. And so I think -- I 17 think a little bit of education. I, myself -- you know, I 18 don't read through that plan totally. We don't all look to 19 see if our flu shots are included. 20 We're also looking to see if any other shots are 21 included, like pneumonia or so forth. So, if they can get it 22 free, and we can get a clinic to give it to all of them at 23 one time, then they can go at will and get them, and we don't 24 have to provide the liability for doing it. We don't have to 25 give them. They just go get their shot. It's -- it's part 8-23-11 bwk 34 1 of the insurance. So, there's a lot of advantages of being 2 educated in insurance. And I think we have still a little 3 ways to go. And, as I understand from Kelly on the wellness 4 side -- actually, Victor came to visit us last week, and he 5 said there's a wellness program included in this that 6 includes quite a few things, and they put all of them on it, 7 and -- and the -- there's some drug -- I believe the vision 8 is included. Dawn, is the vision included in -- 9 MS. LANTZ: It's on the buy-up. 10 MR. MALEK: Discount plan. 11 MS. HARGIS: The discounted plan. 12 MR. MALEK: It covers you at a discount. 13 MS. HARGIS: So, there's a lot of things when we 14 get down to the nitty-gritty of actually doing the plan, but 15 right now, the number that we have in the -- in the budget is 16 good. If we come under it, that's great. That builds up our 17 fund balance, which we know we need. But it also gives us a 18 cushion so that you don't have to make the decision as to 19 exactly what plan until we have that RFP, but then, you know, 20 you can make a good decision, because you have -- anyway, you 21 have that little bit of cushion to make it. It's not a lot, 22 but it -- you know -- 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's something. 24 MS. HARGIS: It's something. And I think the 25 employees would be very appreciative. Is there anything 8-23-11 bwk 35 1 else? Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- just on some salary 3 items, Judge. So, in the current numbers, all of the 14's 4 have been moved up to 15's? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 6 MS. HARGIS: All the 14's have been moved up to 7 15's. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that cost? 9 MS. HARGIS: I think it was about 135,000. 10 MS. MABRY: Yeah, thereabouts. I'll have to give 11 you the right number on the spreadsheet. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 135. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- the cost-of-living 14 increase or whatever you want to call it? 15 MS. HARGIS: Is already in. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At what percent? 17 MS. HARGIS: 6.5. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6.5 percent? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much does that cost? 21 MS. MABRY: I'll get the spreadsheet out. 22 MS. HARGIS: Right off the top of my head, I can't 23 give it to you, but I think we have a spreadsheet. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: How much did we -- how much did it 25 cost? 8-23-11 bwk 36 1 MS. HARGIS: I was going to say the $350,000 range. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause you made everybody 3 15's, then you put 6 and a half on top of that. 4 MS. HARGIS: Some of them just moved laterally. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Longevity and certification 6 and whatever, and then they get that plus 6 and a half. 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, some of them just moved. It 8 wasn't a matter of getting -- the only ones that got -- and 9 there were only, I think, three. If they're 14-1's or 14-2's 10 that went to a 15-1, they got a little bump, but if they -- 11 if they were -- but we only had three of those. Actually, we 12 had one -- I think one 14-1. I may be wrong. One or two 13 14-1's and one 14-2, so there were just very few. The rest 14 of them just laterally moved; there is no increase associated 15 with the move. A 15-1 and a 14-3 are exactly the same. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. What was the 6.5 17 percent across the board total? 18 MS. MABRY: I'm getting that right now. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what we're looking 20 for? 21 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- and then there's 23 some restoration numbers in there, too. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Restoration? 25 MS. HARGIS: Explain. 8-23-11 bwk 37 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Restoring salaries back to 2 a -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I'm reading 5 it. Anyway, I think that's what it is. 6 MS. HARGIS: There are -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Restoring. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's included. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We reduced them a couple 10 years ago. 11 MS. HARGIS: There are eight elected officials in 12 this that were restored 2.5 percent, and then the COLA. 13 There's one of those that's actually giving his up for one of 14 his employees. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: With all the roll-ups -- I'm showing 16 800. 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The 6.5, with -- with all of 18 the variables associated with that, is an increase of 19 589,973. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 589 what? 21 MS. HARGIS: 589,973. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, when you say 23 "variables," are you -- 24 MS. HARGIS: I'm talking about -- the Judge calls 25 them roll-ups. 8-23-11 bwk 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. HARGIS: FICA, retirement, our share of that. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't count the moving 4 the 14's to 15's? 5 MS. MABRY: No, it doesn't. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's in addition to? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. Does it include the 8 restoration? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes, in the budget. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's a different number, 11 correct? 12 MS. HARGIS: It's a different number, yes. No, 13 this 589 number does not include what you're referring to as 14 restoration. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it does not. Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: No. 17 MS. MABRY: Jeannie, here's 14's to 15's. 18 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I really quoted the 14's and 19 15's wrong. The 14's to 15's is $56,000. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 56? 21 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's in addition to this 23 other? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Minus -- get rid of the 135. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Take the 135 out; put the 56 8-23-11 bwk 39 1 in. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Delete 135; change it to -- 3 change it to 56. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: It went down. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, that's good. 7 MS. HARGIS: As I say, most of them were just 8 lateral moves. It's just giving them a 15 classification, so 9 we need to add -- if you want to add -- actually, it's 10 $56,659, and then 589,973. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And all of the capital items 12 that were on that other list are coming out of our capital? 13 MS. HARGIS: That's right. 14 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to give us the 16 restoration numbers or not? 17 MS. HARGIS: The restoration number is 56,679. 18 Take off the 135. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the -- that's -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Not restoration. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 14's to 15's. 22 MS. MABRY: I don't have that number. I'll have to 23 get that for you. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The restoration is the eight 8-23-11 bwk 40 1 elected officials. 2 MS. HARGIS: Oh, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was it last year? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We invited elected officials to 6 join us, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some did. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- three others did. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We did that in '09-'10? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: '10-'11. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This year. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: '10-'11. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three others joined the Court. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which was stupid. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I was going to say. Just 17 thought I'd throw that out there. 18 MS. HARGIS: The restoration numbers couldn't be 19 more than -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not much. 21 MS. HARGIS: It's $5,000 or $6,000, if it's that 22 much. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would pick up our 24 liquor tab. 25 MS. HARGIS: That's with retirement and everything. 8-23-11 bwk 41 1 I mean, it's just not that much money. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 3 MS. HARGIS: You also have -- you had requested at 4 the last budget hearing the capital projects to be summarized 5 and changed. You all have with that packet included -- the 6 2008 issue is now in two components; one is the Ag Barn, and 7 the other one is the I.T. software. And then the remaining 8 amount there is 282,264.78. The 2010 issue has been divided. 9 The two remaining items to be paid out for this fiscal year 10 are the computers and the airport, which we decided to remain 11 the same. And then you'll see all the other items that had 12 been requested for a total of 747,649.83. There was 3,582.91 13 that was -- nobody requested, and that's -- the Court has 14 the -- you know, that's basically the -- y'all have a copy of 15 that underneath the top spreadsheet that you have. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And my last -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- question is on the -- in the 19 budget, the revenue, what tax rate is that based on? 20 MS. HARGIS: The tax rate is the same. I have -- 21 I've not assumed anything. The tax rate is the same as the 22 tax rate is today. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Ask that 24 question again. I got in on the tail end of your question. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't -- 8-23-11 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The answer didn't fit. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked -- I said what tax rate 3 is the revenue in the budget based on? And her answer is the 4 same; there's no change in here. 5 MS. HARGIS: The tax rate is the same as it was for 6 2010. The revenue has been based on the current tax rate of 7 .4123. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the -- the end of Fund 9 10? 10 MS. HARGIS: End of Fund 10? If you do the 11 arrow -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. Which page is it on? 13 MS. HARGIS: It's the next to the last page. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but then it goes all the 15 way to Fund 98. 16 MS. HARGIS: Here. Right here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that goes all the way -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to be -- 20 MS. HARGIS: There's about 80 pages, so go to about 21 80. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, right there. 23 MS. MABRY: It will be Page 82, is where the next 24 fund begins. 25 MS. HARGIS: I was getting -- came pretty close. 8-23-11 bwk 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will be the -- 2 MS. HARGIS: One more. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One more over? 4 MS. HARGIS: Oh, there you go. There's your bottom 5 line. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, bottom line in Fund 10 only 7 is 540,000. 8 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm, yeah. My shortfall is in the 9 fire, from 14. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I knew, somewhat. What's -- 11 it's 14? 12 MS. HARGIS: 14. It should be the next line. And 13 you have a copy of -- you should have a copy of the summary 14 sheet in your packet. I have it printed; I thought I brought 15 it over. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Do we have that? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Uh-huh. Maybe this is it. 18 Is that it? 19 MS. HARGIS: I had it in my hand. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Here it comes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There, that's what I was 22 looking for. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 24 MS. HARGIS: I have been visiting with some of our 25 sister counties, because we're working -- they're working 8-23-11 bwk 44 1 with me on the GASB-54 changes, and asking for my help. And 2 so, in doing so, we've had some conversations, and one of our 3 sister counties has a 33 percent fund balance. Another one 4 has close to 100 percent, and I don't know what the other one 5 has. But all -- we are really hitting the bottom on the 6 surplus in our fund balance at 12 percent. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But as shown on this summary, that's 8 up about 50 percent from what it was, is it not? 9 MS. HARGIS: 50 percent? No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Wasn't it about 8 and a third to 8 11 and a half? 12 MS. HARGIS: It was about 10. We've gone up about 13 2 percent. It -- I thought. Depending on who's figuring. 14 It's based on expenses for -- in that particular fund. I 15 mean, the overall is still at 9. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis, the insurance 17 number in the budget is 2.2 million, right? 18 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- and if we go with the -- we 20 talked about an insurance -- we're at 1.9, correct? If we 21 add the 130 for the H.R.A., you're at 1 million, 777, plus 22 130; gets us to 1.9 million. So, there's 300,000 there, 23 about. I mean -- 24 MS. HARGIS: That's probably going to come in 25 closer to 250 by the time we plug it in. 8-23-11 bwk 45 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 250. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, 250. 3 MS. HARGIS: So that's a little bit of room. 4 But -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- I'm just looking -- 6 MS. HARGIS: But, again -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 200,000, thereabout. 8 MS. HARGIS: It's a fund balance situation. And 9 we're getting -- again, that much money is -- is about two 10 months. It's not three months. And -- and cash flow right 11 now, between now and the end of the year, is going to be 12 really bad. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's tight. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. And I -- 15 MS. HARGIS: You know, we're generating the cash 16 balance on -- the estimated balance that I'm using is the 17 estimated cash balance. Not a fund balance, but estimated 18 cash balance, which makes a huge difference. Our fund 19 balance can be much higher than our real cash balance. And 20 right now, our cash balance is down, and that's critical. 21 And, you know, our expenses -- if you look back at our 22 expenses, which I've done from 2005 till now, we've gone down 23 in expenses. We were at 21,000, 22,000. We're now down to 24 18, so we've cut expenses the last two years. We've come 25 under budget every -- every year now. Our biggest cost 8-23-11 bwk 46 1 that's killing -- that was really hurting us was our 2 insurance, and -- when we were self-funded. And, you know, 3 we lost about a million and a half with that this year. And 4 we are going to come back again, I'll remind you, with a 5 budget amendment for that as soon as we get closer to the end 6 of the year here. That'll be a real big -- it's probably 7 going to be in the neighborhood of 400,000 or $500,000 that 8 we're out of budget on health insurance. We've been trying 9 to manage it the best that we can, but that's where it's 10 going to be. Gary says he feels like there's some money that 11 may be coming back. I don't know if he had the opportunity 12 to research that yesterday or not. But -- 13 MR. LOONEY: Working on the audit. 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. But there was about 150,000 15 that was supposed to come in. It has not. So, that's going 16 to help us a little bit. That might reduce it down to 350, 17 if we know we're going to get, you know, some money back. We 18 have stopped paying out right now any more of the earmarked 19 claims that -- you know, the self-funded claims. I think the 20 last one we had was only $657. That was in June. So, I 21 think we're done. But I can't promise you that, because you 22 have 12 months after the end of the year for those claims to 23 come in. So, I'm hoping we're done. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- the new insurance 25 hit, the 400,000, whatever, is that in these numbers or not? 8-23-11 bwk 47 1 Is that in our budget numbers? I mean, is that in the fund 2 balance numbers that we were quoted? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. The reduction yes -- yeah, they 4 are in there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, my feeling is I 6 really don't want to do a tax increase this year. I think 7 the -- I know the Judge and I have talked about it; we're not 8 exactly on the same page on this, but -- we're probably not 9 on the same page at all, but -- (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this year you're not on 11 the same page with him like I wasn't last year. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- you know, the 13 economy is still in real trouble, and I hear it a lot. In 14 fact, I think our local economy is worse this year than it 15 was last year, from talking with contractors and people on 16 the street. Certainly, the agricultural community has been 17 hit really, really hard this year, and I just don't -- I just 18 can't go with a tax increase. I just can't do it. Looking 19 at these numbers, it looks to me like we need to come up with 20 $600,000 to cover the fire and -- 21 MS. HARGIS: That's not going to keep our -- that's 22 going to -- and if we do -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'll leave our fund balance 24 where it is, at 12 percent, which is not an acceptable 25 number, and I agree with that. 8-23-11 bwk 48 1 MS. HARGIS: We can't keep going down, even if the 2 economy's bad, because if we can't pay the bills, then we 3 can't pay the payroll, which is my big fear for next year. I 4 think we can make it this year. And the only reason we're 5 making it is because we have cash in the capital account. If 6 we had to depend on the general fund this year, we would not 7 make it to December. And last year, we had to get tax 8 payments from the Tax Assessor every three or four days just 9 to be able to pay the bills, and -- and that's a little 10 tight, guys. You know, sometimes -- you know, it's up to 11 y'all, but we need to get that fund balance back up to 25 12 percent. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, but it's going to 14 take -- 15 MS. HARGIS: It's going to take two or three -- 16 three or four years. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, our insurance, 18 we're hopefully past that problem. Not really -- you know, 19 no more big hits anywhere on it. And we're going to have to 20 be -- continue to be extremely austere, as we have been. But 21 I still think that we've tightened up a lot. I'm proud of 22 the whole -- all the departments. Everyone's, you know, done 23 their job that we've asked. But I still just don't see we 24 can do a tax increase. I want to try to give as much of an 25 employee increase as we can. I don't think it can be 6.5 8-23-11 bwk 49 1 percent. 2 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to try to help on the 4 insurance side. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The employees, even with that, are 6 still behind the C.P.I. index by over 2 percentage points, so 7 it doesn't even bring them even to where they were from the 8 last -- and I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I 9 don't think it's fair to balance the budget off the backs of 10 the county employees. They are our most important asset. We 11 are a service operation. Now, you mentioned the 12 agricultural. One -- one of the real difficulties we have in 13 -- in our tax valuations is so much of it is covered by ag 14 value. Now, the law provides for that, but your ag value's 15 not going to get hurt. We had a $600,000 hole put in our 16 budget by the City of Kerrville, and we need to make that up 17 with the City of Kerrville's participation, and that needs to 18 come from their taxpayers as well as ours. And that's why I 19 have insisted on the two-cent tax increase to cover that, 20 because that's where it came from. The rest of -- the rest 21 of the gains to try and increase our reserves came from the 22 efforts of these employees out here, that I'm beginning to 23 believe you're suggesting that we balance the budget on the 24 backs of, Commissioner. That I totally disagree with. 25 They're the ones that got us in better shape, because we 8-23-11 bwk 50 1 asked them to, because times were tough. And I think they at 2 least need to be told that we're going to try and keep up 3 with what it takes you at the grocery store, at the gas 4 station, at the utility station where you have to pay your 5 utility bills, all of those things that go to make up their 6 cost-of-living. And I -- I think, actually, that -- like I 7 say, it's at least -- it's over 2 percentage points under 8 what they would really otherwise be entitled to. 9 MS. HARGIS: Let me tell you a little bit about the 10 certified roll this year. I did the cover page that I would 11 do if we raised the taxes by two cents, so that we could get 12 ready to put this out on the web, and it was kind of amazing 13 to me to go through these calculations. Last year we had new 14 property values of $534,000. This year we have new property 15 values of $235,000. Our roll has gone down. We have more 16 over-65's on the roll this year than we did last year. Our 17 biggest problem is our over-65 exemption. It keeps being our 18 biggest problem. And, unfortunately, the -- as someone said 19 at the City when I was there, and they were arguing the point 20 in California, they based it on need. Unfortunately, in 21 Texas they didn't do that. But, you know, we've lost 22 $6 million through that freeze. That's -- that's our fund 23 balance; that's everything that we would have needed for 24 anything for the last six years. And I wish I could tell you 25 what the answer was. I don't have the answer, but I can tell 8-23-11 bwk 51 1 you what the numbers are. And that's the part that's -- 2 that's difficult. 3 I wish that someone had -- I wasn't here then, but 4 I wish someone had given y'all a plan of how you could have 5 incrementally raised the taxes that wouldn't have affected 6 taxpayers over a period of time to offset that, and I think 7 it could have been done. And it -- I don't even think it 8 needed to be more than a half -- maybe a half a cent a year, 9 but I don't know that. I don't know that right now. But 10 we're here, and we're short. If we do not raise the taxes, 11 we're really going to have a bad fund balance. And if we 12 have a trial that we're not covered under the little 13 insurance policy that we have, we're really in bad shape. 14 And -- and we are getting more and more trials, because 15 there's more and more going on. And the other problem I have 16 is if we build this facility for Rusty, we don't have the 17 money to fund -- we don't have the money to man it, not under 18 this budget. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's going to be 20 built this year, so -- it might be built this year, but not 21 staffed. I think maybe we can empty the -- solve some of the 22 jail on the backs of the City with the magistration and some 23 of the other issues that we've been carrying for them. 24 MS. HARGIS: Don't forget, we just lost $100,000. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, on the tax contract. We may 8-23-11 bwk 52 1 want to -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think we need to 3 seriously look back at the Class C -- or the County Attorney 4 look at the whole magistration issue. I see misdemeanors 5 again. And I think we quit doing it. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's already been looked at. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We quit doing it. You know, if 8 they're not going to pay, they'll pay a fee to do it. That's 9 the way they've treated us recently. I think we start 10 treating them the say same. Quite frankly, on the jail, I 11 think that -- you know, $45 as a day rate for the City. You 12 know, if that's not enough, maybe we raise it. I think that, 13 you know, that's the -- I have an e-mail in here that they 14 canceled the chip seal program this morning, after they heard 15 they were going to get a bill. They want us to do things 16 free for them; they're not willing to even cover our costs. 17 We're just not going that way any more. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you and I totally 19 agree on that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it's unfortunate. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, but they have shown 23 no willingness to get along with us this year, unfortunately. 24 I see Rusty wants to make a comment. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two things real quick. First, 8-23-11 bwk 53 1 on the inmate housing, what it actually costs, if you -- if 2 you spread it through the entire jail budget, okay, -- that's 3 electricity, that's utilities, that's everything it costs to 4 run that jail, salaries and all -- it's costing right at $41 5 a day to house them. All right. And that's why we went to 6 45 with the City. But I'll let y'all and the County Attorney 7 work on how you want to work that. On the part that I really 8 wanted to say, I wanted to thank Judge Tinley for his 9 comments, and I don't thank Judge Tinley very often. 10 (Laughter.) But, you know, last year the employees took 11 what, in essence, we all know was a very large pay cut 12 because of having to pitch in on the insurance, having to 13 start paying the co -- they lost their H.R.A. card, lost 14 their prescription card. Insurance deductibles went up, and 15 believe me, Humana got more than their deductible out of all 16 our employees, so they took a very big hit. And as the Judge 17 said, you know, what I see and what I've seen -- and y'all 18 know, I wrote an editorial about what the County paid and 19 what the City paid and everything else, is that this is in a 20 very large part due to an increase in the fire/EMS. Okay? 21 That was the biggest jump the County's had. Whether it's 22 over-65, that's always hurting, but the budget crisis has 23 been because of the City's jump and unwillingness to really 24 compromise. 25 Now, the last thing I think is that the employees 8-23-11 bwk 54 1 again should have to bear that. It is not a single one of 2 our employees' fault that the City went up over half a 3 million or whatever in those costs, so why should the 4 employees have to pay for it? Every citizen, including 5 myself, you know, homeowner or business owner, and a lot of 6 them wanted that contract agreed to, especially people out in 7 the county. Don't make only the county employees pay it. 8 Everybody wanted it; everybody should have to pay for it. 9 The City got away. They're going to go up on our utility 10 rates. They're going to get their tax increase sooner than 11 that, but they really real quick came out this year and said 12 no tax increase, because they got it from us, and they got it 13 from our employees. Don't let them get it from our employees 14 again this year. (Applause.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: How come you got that and I didn't? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The first part of my comments 17 about, you know, not very many people normally agree with 18 you, Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe that's it. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I gave it to you. Thank you, 21 Judge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, gentlemen. Where are we? I'm 23 going to tell you right now, the budget I filed is going to 24 have that two cents in it. (Applause.) It's going to have 25 it in it. 8-23-11 bwk 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you through chasing numbers? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine. File what you want. 6 I'll -- you know, only comment I'll make in addition to what 7 you said, you know, I certainly would love to give the 8 employees the increase. I think you came up with a budget 9 that's admirable. We just have to figure out how to fund it. 10 The -- but we have to remember, we work for the citizens of 11 this county, and they have told me pretty loud and clear 12 they've had a rough year. They're having a rough year, and 13 they don't -- you know, they're the ones that pay everything. 14 Without them -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, they wanted -- the 16 citizens of the county wanted the contract with the City. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The citizens of the county 19 ought to have to pay it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Those citizens were told, if we 21 agree to those numbers, you're talking about a two-cent tax 22 increase. The response was, "If that's what it takes, do it, 23 but sign up Kerrville EMS." Now, some of those may not have 24 to bear the actual economic pain of the tax increase. I 25 didn't qualify them if they were over 65 and frozen, or 8-23-11 bwk 56 1 whether their only property was their homestead property. 2 But it's -- we were told in no uncertain terms, "If that's 3 what it takes, you do it." And -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they were pretty 5 insistent on it. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty insistent? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Being the -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was being kind. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Being the new guy on the 11 block, February, that's all I heard. And, in fact, I got 12 about 132 names that I wrote down of people who called and 13 said, you know, "Do what you have to do, but we want those 14 fire and EMS services. And if it means to raise our taxes to 15 do that, then do it." So, I -- I'm remembering what they 16 said. We kept those services. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me -- let me put my two 18 cents worth, and it's probably going to surprise a few 19 people. But, you know -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it already has, 21 Commissioner. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sure it has, 'cause I 23 haven't had a lot of comments so far. But, you know, we 24 asked elected officials and department heads to do some 25 things to try to get our costs down, and I believe they did 8-23-11 bwk 57 1 that. There's no question, they've done it. We're down some 2 employees. That was done through attrition. We didn't have 3 to hand anybody a pink slip. And I believe that the ones 4 that -- in some areas, the workload lessened somewhat to 5 justify those. Other areas, the workload stayed the same or 6 got more. And I believe that it's a just thing to take and 7 share some of the savings, if not most of the savings, from 8 not having the extra numbers, which actually saves the county 9 a lot of money in -- in, you know, retirement contributions 10 and health care costs, those kinds of things. And so, you 11 know, I think you factor that into spreading the wealth among 12 the people that are left doing the work. I think that's one 13 way that you do it, and maybe not have to raise taxes most of 14 the time. But I think if you really look at the numbers, 15 that's about where we are. 16 If we took the money -- the savings from the 17 employees that are no longer with us -- and that may take a 18 little bit more than that to do what you're suggesting, but 19 you spread that, and then the actual additional cost was 20 forced on us by the City. And, you know, I'm -- I'm the 21 world's worst, and have been, about raising taxes. I'm not 22 sure I voted for a tax increase in God knows how long. 23 Probably can't remember the last time. But times are tough, 24 and I -- you know, I hear the same things. Only thing that I 25 will say that I do not agree with, and I know there's 8-23-11 bwk 58 1 opposition to it, because I'm not the only one, but elected 2 officials get more heat for getting -- giving themselves 3 raises. We get -- you know, we get compared to Washington 4 and -- you know, and being self-serving and all that kind of 5 stuff when we raise our salaries. And I disagree with doing 6 that when times are like this. I think it looks really bad. 7 I do not mind doing it for the employees and department 8 heads. That's where I stand. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I know what this guy's going to say. 10 He's going to talk about what it costs him at H.E.B. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. How else would -- 12 would elected officials -- how else would one of us get a 13 raise if we didn't vote for it? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you can't. We have to 15 do it for ourselves. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think it looks bad 18 when everything's -- in the economy that we're in, you know, 19 it looks bad any time to the people that -- you know, that 20 we're doing it, but especially, I think, in a down period 21 like this. I don't want to be compared to some of the 22 Congressmen and President of the United States -- not 23 necessarily the President. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That won't happen. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 8-23-11 bwk 59 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bruce, the only comment I'll 2 say on that is when the Congress and a lot of them do it, 3 they do it just for themselves. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This COLA -- this 6 across-the-board is across the board totally for county 7 employees. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's the part that 10 covers those elected officials; then I don't see any problem 11 with it. Like Buster's famous at saying, everybody shops at 12 the same place and has to spend the same money to survive. 13 As long as you're not singling out elected officials or -- 14 you know, Congressmen, "We're going to get this humongous 15 raise just 'cause of who we are." I think it's different. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty, I don't agree with 17 you. And, I mean, the facts are the facts, and everybody's 18 costs have gone up. And a lot of people don't -- are not 19 willing to face the fact that the government costs go up just 20 like their personal costs do. You know, products go up. 21 Fuel goes up; it very rarely comes down. And, yes, groceries 22 have gone up, a bunch. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just wanted to say 24 that I'm excited that we're going to have two H.E.B.'s. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. 8-23-11 bwk 60 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You can spend more of your money. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Spend more money. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of them's close to your 4 house. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One's close to my house. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe there won't be as much 7 of a problem in the parking lot. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz brought up 9 a point about the agricultural system that has taken a hit, 10 and I don't know about his part of the county. I have an old 11 friend out at Mountain Home that his dream was to have a 12 little piece of property, and some mama cows and a bull, and 13 he'd sit out there. And he worked all of his life for the 14 federal government right here in Kerrville, and his wife was 15 the city secretary for Kerrville for -- and retired there. 16 And they finally -- finally got them a piece of property and 17 some cows and an old bull out there. Well, things have 18 gotten bad, and he has sold every one of them. No choice. 19 He had to go out there and sell them because things are bad. 20 And if -- you know, if things come back -- if things come 21 back, the price is going to be to where he won't be able to 22 buy back into them. His dream is over. His dream is over. 23 That's tough stuff. And I didn't mean to get into that, but, 24 Judge, I've got a question here about the budget, the jail 25 court. 8-23-11 bwk 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're doing the budget here, 3 and there's other parts besides salaries and all that stuff. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There is a brand-new $26,000 6 in there. What is that about? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the line item? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jail court, Court-appointed 9 services. Never seen that before. 10 MS. HARGIS: We have -- that's for the defense 11 attorneys. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it'd be lawyers. 13 MS. HARGIS: Instead of having it -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is the first time we've 15 ever used them? 16 MS. HARGIS: No, we've been paying them, and -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Been paying them out of some 18 other budget? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, and we had to move it. So, 20 we've reduced one and increased that one. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do the right thing. Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: So, we -- again, we were trying to 23 keep that so you can see what the real costs are. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate that. 25 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 8-23-11 bwk 62 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Well -- and I'd 2 like to see us gather one more time. Are you -- are you 3 counting this the end of the budget workshops? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'd said earlier, I think 5 yesterday, I hoped this would be, but not necessarily. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When are you -- go ahead. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd really like to see us 8 get back together one more time, just to -- just to visit and 9 kick each other around a little bit, and -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Leave the guns at home? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave the guns at home. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, when are you going to 14 file the budget? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty quick. 16 MS. HARGIS: Pretty quick. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't you have to do it 30 18 days prior to adoption? 19 MS. HARGIS: We're really running tight on this 20 right now, time-wise. We've waited later than we've ever 21 waited. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last year we waited longer. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's not me; it's the law, okay? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's the County Judge. 25 MS. HARGIS: We need to -- to put the budget out 8-23-11 bwk 63 1 there, because I feel that the citizens are calling and 2 asking for it. We need -- I mean, all the other counties 3 have theirs out there. We don't -- if we do any kind of tax 4 rate -- even if we don't do a tax rate increase, 'cause we 5 earned a dollar more than we did last year in our little 6 effective tax rate, so we still have to have two public 7 hearings. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can always lower it, but 9 you can't raise it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you decide you want to 12 change some things and lower the budget, you can. If you 13 want to lower the tax rate, you can. You just can't go up on 14 it, the way I understand it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said he's filing the budget 16 he wants to file. 17 MS. HARGIS: But, generally speaking, if you have 18 any new property or -- or if your roll went up just a little 19 bit, then your effective rate changes. And ours -- so we're 20 a little above our effective rate, so we have to do it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, on the schedule, when's 22 our first hearing? 23 MS. HARGIS: The drop-dead was September the 8th. 24 MS. BOLIN: September 8th, we have to meet and 25 discuss the rate and take a record vote. And then after 8-23-11 bwk 64 1 that, we do the two public hearings. 2 MS. HARGIS: That's the drop-dead -- 3 MS. BOLIN: That is the drop-dead date. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the -- the record vote 5 on the tax rate is the 8th? 6 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 7 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We had hoped to have it on the 8 22nd, which would have put our first public hearing on -- 9 today, and then the second public hearing on 8/30. So, we're 10 going to have to -- remember, we've got that three -- not 11 sooner than three days, not later than 14. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Make sure we get -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll give everybody a copy of this. 14 We got a -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- drop-dead calendar here. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's have the drop-dead 18 calendar, then. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Shows that we've already published 20 the effective and rollback tax rates, so that's been done. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I saw that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: According to the schedule by the Tax 23 Assessor, September 8 would be the meeting to discuss the tax 24 rate, and if it's going to exceed the effective tax rate or 25 the rollback, which it's not going to exceed the rollback, 8-23-11 bwk 65 1 that'll be September 8. September 9, we will give notice of 2 public hearing on the tax rate. We'll have our first public 3 hearing on the 16th, second public hearing on the 21st. The 4 22nd, there will be a notice published. 5 MS. HARGIS: A notice. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 29th is when we adopt the tax rate, 7 the budget, and the whole -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all done. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Whole shooting match, yeah. 10 MS. HARGIS: That's the tax calendar. But the -- 11 the budget needs to be out on the -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. We start a new one 13 October 1. 14 MS. HARGIS: I have to put it out there so that the 15 citizens have time to react. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, let me get this -- let me 17 make sure I understand this totally before you file this 18 budget. You're going to -- you're going to file a budget. 19 The budget that we've been talking about, that budget 20 includes a 6 and a half percent across-the-board increase for 21 everybody? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that being able to do 24 that and pay the -- basically, the increased tax rate would 25 be because of having to fund the city EMS and fire, two 8-23-11 bwk 66 1 cents. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, the thing that gave 3 me a pause for concern here, just within the last couple of 4 days, -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is the deal on the tax contract. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, now what's kicking around in my 9 mind is another, say, quarter of a cent. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about the 100,000 for 11 the volunteer fire departments? 12 MS. HARGIS: We don't have that. 13 MS. BOLIN: That's not in the budget. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure think it ought to be 15 in there. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's been discussed. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the problem was we ended up -- 18 that's part of the 500 that went to the City. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I know. But I still -- 20 it's kind of like starving our employees so that -- and 21 starving our volunteer fire departments that do all the 22 firefighting, you know, just because we have to give to the 23 City. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree with you. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to have to go 8-23-11 bwk 67 1 up -- if we're going to go up on the tax rate two cents, or 2 two and a quarter cents to make it work, I'm for that. I am, 3 because I don't think it's fair to -- they do 90 percent of 4 the firefighting. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't disagree with you one iota. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I -- you know, that's the 7 part I don't get. And I don't think that that's going to be 8 a big -- a big issue with the county -- county funds; that 9 they do support the volunteer fire departments with funding 10 measures and things, but that's in addition to -- you know, 11 their costs have gone up too, just like everybody else's. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What is that one penny per 13 $100 valuation that goes up? 14 MS. HARGIS: Right now, a penny is 290 -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 290? 16 MS. HARGIS: 283 -- hang on a second. It all 17 depends. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You got a half cent. 19 MS. HARGIS: It all depends on the effective -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you can always go down. 21 You can't go up. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be my 24 recommendation. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm listening. 8-23-11 bwk 68 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be my 2 recommendation, if you're going to -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I'm already there. 4 MS. HARGIS: The certified roll -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just wanted to make sure. 6 MS. HARGIS: It would be 292,000 for every penny. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 292? 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. So, I'll have to see. I'll 10 put the 100 in and see what we need to fund that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I would do if I 12 were you. I'd file two and a half. 13 MS. HARGIS: Keep in mind, the EMS amount is 14 already in that 250,000 increase. We took that from Fund 10. 15 We're still -- the fire went up, and then with the other deal 16 that they gave us, they hit us for about $750,000 in one 17 year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know what? Y'all keep 19 saying that over and over again, and talking about these 20 things, and it's not doing one damn bit of good until you get 21 it in the press and till the people know that. And there's 22 not a press person in here, I don't think. 23 MS. HARGIS: No, there isn't. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't print that sort of 25 stuff. 8-23-11 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you -- I mean, you 2 need to. I'm telling you, you need to. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to print a tax 4 increase; I can guarantee, but they won't say what it's for. 5 MS. HARGIS: May I make a suggestion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you may not, till I get 7 through. Thank you. You need to do some kind of a press 8 release. I really mean that. Need to do some kind of press 9 release in writing, so they can't get it wrong. 10 MS. HARGIS: No, I think he's right. Mark 11 Armstrong said that if one of the five of you would like to 12 put anything in, they would put it in the paper, so I think 13 it would be very wise for us to do exactly what Buster is 14 saying. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All those comments 16 collectively. Your anger -- I don't know how you get that 17 anger thing. You draw little smoke deals coming out of his 18 ears or something. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just red on the head, and he 20 gets kind of quivering on the lip. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the first time that you 22 voted for a tax increase; I think that is important. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, there are 24 times when it's justified, whenever the citizens tell you 25 that's what they want, and you need to deliver. And so that 8-23-11 bwk 70 1 they do realize there's a cost, and -- you know, and I guess 2 if there's one statement that bothers me in the public -- it 3 always has -- more than anything, is the insinuation by some 4 people that county employees are trash; they don't -- they 5 don't count for anything. They don't have feelings, they 6 don't have families, they don't have bills to pay. You ought 7 to just kick them out the door and send them down the street, 8 you know. That's just not -- you know, we're all people. We 9 all have jobs to do. And that irritates me really bad when 10 people start downing government employees, especially local 11 employees. 12 MS. UECKER: Plus the fact, Bruce, that nobody ever 13 complains about K.I.S.D. -- and I love Tivy like everybody 14 else does. If K.I.S.D. taxes go up, well, that's okay; it's 15 for the kids. Yet they got a freaking football coach for 16 every player that makes a hundred grand. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, you're stepping 18 over the line now. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's holy ground, man. 20 MS. UECKER: I mean, but it's for the kids, they 21 say, so we're not going to complain about that. What? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, anyway -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Gentlemen, I'll be the first 24 to say thank you for your comments about the employees. 25 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 8-23-11 bwk 71 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I hope it carries the rest 2 of the way through to adoption of the budget. 3 MS. PIEPER: Amen. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Amen. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, just stick to it; it will. 6 Got anything else? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what it would 8 be. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We're adjourned. 10 (Budget workshop adjourned at 2:45 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 31st day of August, 20 2011. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 8-23-11 bwk