1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, September 12, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 12, 2011 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 6 --- Commissioners' Comments 8 4 1.1 Public hearing concerning revision of plat 5 for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section One, Volume 6, Pages 323-326, Precinct 1 10 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 7 final approval concerning revision of plat for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section One, Pct. 1 11 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 9 approval of preliminary revision of plat for Lots 119, 120, and 121 of Vistas Escondidas 10 De Cypress Springs Estates, Volume 7; set public hearing, Precinct 4 12 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 12 contract for lighting for outdoor rodeo arena at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center; allow 13 County Judge to sign same 13 14 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to clarify details of agreement between City of 15 Kerrville and Kerr County related to street paving done by Road and Bridge Department 15 16 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 commission claimed by Carey Malek and/or Willis of Texas, Inc. in connection with FY 2011-12 18 Kerr County employee health benefits proposal submitted by TAC 20 19 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 20 concerning a plan of action for moving forward in reference to minimum security facilities 25 21 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 22 consider various employee health benefits proposals and accept preferred proposal 43 23 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on AACOG 24 Alamo Agency Report on Aging for Kerr County 57 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 12, 2011 2 PAGE 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 clarify responsibility to magistrate individuals who are arrested by City of Kerrville and matters 4 in connection therewith, including, but not limited to, participation of City Judges in magistration 5 rotation and/or compensation to the Justices of the Peace in lieu thereof 74 6 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 7 request from Kerrville Triathlon Festival coordinator on closure of Sutherland Lane for 8 scheduled event time of 7 a.m. to 2 p.m. Sunday, October 2nd 101 9 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 review Kerr County Policy for non-county maintained impassable roads; receive opinion 11 from County Attorney 106 12 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve updated broker/dealer list for Kerr 13 County’s Investment Policy in accordance with the Public Funds Investment Act 115 14 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 authorize Kerr County Maintenance Supervisor to go out for bid for electrical/plumbing/HVAC/ 16 pest control services 115 17 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request to approve a reduction in jury 18 reimbursement due to S.B.1 General Appropriations Act 116 19 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 accept invitation from Kerr County Historical Commission to meet with them on November 14, 2011 119 21 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 22 determine participation in Hog Out County Grant Program sponsored by TX Department of Agriculture 121 23 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 solicit resumés or expressions of interest from individuals desiring to be appointed Kerr County 25 Treasurer until the next general election 122 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 12, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on approval of Community Collaboration Agreement 4 between Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, Inc., and the Kerr County Court 126 5 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 6 holding a joint meeting with Board of Directors for Kerr Economic Development Corporation 127 7 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve interlocal agreement between County of Kerr and City of Kerrville 132 9 1.22 Consider/discuss, approve 2012 Sheriffs’ and 10 Constables’ fees 137 11 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to allocate capital funds for equipment for Animal 12 Control Department --- 13 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on various matters in proposed FY 2011-2012 Kerr 14 County budget 141 15 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to submit bid for purchase of Texas National Guard 16 Armory property on Meadowview Lane in Kerrville (Executive Session) --- 17 4.1 Pay Bills 184 18 4.2 Budget Amendments 186 4.3 Late Bills --- 19 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 188 20 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 188 21 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 190 22 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed in Executive Session 199 23 --- Adjourned 199 24 25 5 1 On Monday, September 12, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, September 12th, 2011, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Would you stand 13 and have a word of prayer with me, please, and then we'll do 14 the pledge of allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I felt kind of like that 17 blond-headed lady that blew the National Anthem yesterday. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not uncommon, Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's not. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's done fairly frequently. At 21 this time, if there's any member of the public or the 22 audience that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a 23 listed agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward 24 and tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on 25 an agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation 9-12-11 6 1 form. There should be some located at the rear of the room. 2 That gives me the notice that there are people that wish to 3 be heard on a particular matter. However, if we get to an 4 agenda item and you haven't filled out a participation form, 5 and you wish to be heard, get my attention in some manner and 6 I'll give you that opportunity. But at this time, if there's 7 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 8 with respect to any matter which is not a listed agenda item, 9 this is your opportunity to come forward, tell us what's on 10 your mind. If you'll come forward and give us your name and 11 address, tell us what's on your mind. 12 MR. OLAFSON: Hello. Thank y'all. I'm Tommy 13 Olafson; I live out in Turkey Run Ranch, 1308 Harper Road. 14 I'll try to be brief. This is on a matter of the burn ban 15 issue we have right now. It's my understanding that burning 16 in a barrel is legal, and I've looked at the order 17 prohibiting or restricting outdoor burning in the county of 18 Medina versus the county of Kerr, and they are a little 19 bit -- they're basically the same, except Medina County is 20 not allowed to burn in any barrels of any sort. Now, I don't 21 have to go into a description on the -- the environment right 22 now and how dry it is. So, I just wanted to bring to the 23 Court's attention if maybe we could put that on the agenda 24 for next time, and maybe get it -- you know, I have a copy I 25 was showing Mr. Oehler here. I wasn't aware that I needed to 9-12-11 7 1 make a bunch of copies. I can leave it with y'all, and y'all 2 can look it over, but basically they're exactly the same, but 3 I'm asking the Court to see if -- if we can do something 4 about it to make it illegal to burn in barrels. I have a 5 neighbor who -- that seems to, like, not look at the weather 6 and, you know, the conditions around us, and they're burning, 7 and I can't have that. I live on 1,100 acres and, you know, 8 one little spark and then we'll be the next Bastrop. So, I 9 just bring to it your attention. I want to put it on the 10 next agenda and have people speak, and maybe get to do what 11 -- what Bandera County has done and, you know, make it 12 illegal to burn in any barrels, barbecue pits, any kind of 13 open flame, 'cause I just don't want -- I can't have, you 14 know, a flame starting on us and burning down, you know, 15 everybody's houses and whatnot. So, that's all. I just -- 16 would y'all like to hand this out? Mr. Oehler, do you want 17 it? Or make copies? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you would, I'll make 19 copies of it and leave it here with us. 20 MR. OLAFSON: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give it to Ms. Grinstead, 22 she'll make a copy for you and return to you your materials, 23 and then she can provide each of us with copies. 24 MR. OLAFSON: Thank y'all very much. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Olafson. 9-12-11 8 1 Appreciate you being here. Anybody else? Any other member 2 of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard on 3 matters which are not listed as agenda items? Seeing no one 4 else coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner Baldwin, 5 you got anything for us this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to say, Saturday -- 7 and I think Guy is going to probably talk about it a little 8 bit, but I just wanted to say you guys missed an excellent, 9 great party down in Center Point. It wasn't a party; it was 10 a marker dedication, but it was honoring some Texas Rangers, 11 and it was fantastic. Also -- excuse me -- wanted to say 12 happy birthday to my beautiful granddaughter, Bailey Jo; I 13 think she's 14 today. And she has sat in this chair during 14 Commissioners Court several times in her life, and she's my 15 little friend. She's a young woman with much integrity, and 16 she's my friend. Just wanted to say happy birthday to her. 17 That's all. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Overby? 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge and Commissioners, 20 again, just -- again, I -- Commissioner Baldwin mentioned 21 about the historical dedication out in Center Point this past 22 weekend. It was the sixth historical marker dedicated in the 23 community of Center Point, and just really was a -- a good, 24 well-attended -- over 100 folks were in attendance for that 25 historical dedication of that marker, so it was a great time. 9-12-11 9 1 I want to especially thank our deputies. Scott VanKaveren 2 was out there; I appreciate Scott coming out, just for safety 3 issues out there, and our Road and Bridge for signs, and 4 TexDOT also for getting some signs out as well. But it was 5 well attended, and was a good -- good meeting. Two other 6 things I would like to say very quickly. Also attended -- 7 September 4th, I attended -- Butch Lackey, a former 8 Commissioner of this Court, he and Betty celebrated their 9 60th anniversary. Also, Mr. Lackey celebrated his 80th 10 birthday, and I had an opportunity to go out there and visit 11 with him, and had a great, great time, and he sends his best 12 to everybody out here as well. 13 Also, one other agenda item. As many of you know, 14 we've taken -- or are not proceeding going forward with the 15 ag project at this time, but we're looking at some functional 16 set-ups and some -- some facility look-ats, site visits. 17 We'll be having our first meeting of organizational meetings 18 in our community next Tuesday with all of the different 19 organizations as we look at the potential site developments 20 and looking at some visits that we'll be scheduling. 21 Commissioner Oehler and I will both be attending that next 22 Tuesday, but I just wanted to let you know, and I'll be 23 updating you periodically on that. That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything. 9-12-11 10 1 I've been here so much recently that I think y'all get the 2 updates that I have twice a week. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, there's one 5 thing about Kerr County; it is a very giving county, and 6 people that need help, seems like that there's always 7 somebody that's willing to step forward and -- and put on 8 fundraisers and things for people in need. There was one at 9 Crider's over the weekend for an ag teacher at Ingram Tom 10 Moore, and we went to that Saturday evening, and when we 11 left, there'd been 330 people come to it, and things were 12 donated, money was given, and the young man showed up. He 13 has real cancer problems, and -- but anyway, the community 14 has done what they can to help him. That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okey-doke. Let's get on with our 16 agenda. At this time, I will recess the Commissioners Court 17 meeting, and I will convene a public hearing concerning a 18 revision of plat for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section 19 One, as set forth in Volume 6, Pages 323 through 326, and 20 located in Precinct 1. 21 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:10 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 22 court, as follows:) 23 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 25 audience that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision 9-12-11 11 1 of plat for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section One, as set 2 forth in Volume 6, Pages 323 through 326? Seeing no one 3 coming forward, I will close the public hearing concerning 4 the revision of plat for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section 5 One, as set forth in Volume 6, Pages 323 through 326. 6 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:10 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 7 reopened.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 10 Court meeting, and we'll go to Item 2; to consider, discuss, 11 and take appropriate action for final approval concerning the 12 revision of plat for Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section 13 One, as set forth in Volume 6, Pages 323 through 326, and 14 located in Precinct 1. Commissioner -- Mr. Odom? 15 MR. ODOM: Thank you, Judge. I don't know if that 16 was a compliment or what. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I wasn't going to touch it, 18 Len. I figured I might get something stirred up here if I 19 followed up on that. 20 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. Mr. and Mrs. Presley 21 own both Lot 2, which is 5.23 acres, and Lot 3 is 6.53 acres. 22 All regulations have been met at this time, so we ask the 23 Court for their final approval of the revision of plat for 24 Lots 2 and 3 of The Horizon, Section One, Volume 6, Pages 323 25 through 326, Precinct 1. 9-12-11 12 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question for Mr. Odom? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 6 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 11 Item 3; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 12 approval of the preliminary revision of plat for Lots 119, 13 120, and 121 of Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, 14 and set forth in Volume 7, Pages 363 and 364, and set a 15 public hearing, that being located in Precinct 4. 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have been to the Court 17 before, and we -- we changed this. They were combining two 18 lots. The Reinbachs had bought Lot 121, so we discontinued 19 that -- the preliminary, and I'm coming back to you to 20 combine three lots into Lot 119-R, consisting of 12.28 acres. 21 So, at this time, we ask the Court for their approval of the 22 preliminary revision of plat for Lots 119, 120, and 121 of 23 Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, Volume 7, Page 24 363 through 364, and to set a public hearing for Monday, 25 October the 24th, 2011, at 9 a.m. 9-12-11 13 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I move approval. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval to set a public hearing on the matter for October 5 the 24th, 2011, at 9 a.m. Any question or discussion on the 6 matter? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 12 Item 4 at 9:15; it's about that time now. Consider, discuss, 13 and take appropriate action on contract for lighting for the 14 outdoor rodeo arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, 15 and allow County Judge to sign same. I put this on the 16 agenda as a follow-up to the bids which we received. And do 17 we need to wait until the architect returns, or are they in a 18 position to move forward on this, Commissioner Oehler? Are 19 you -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you reviewed it? 21 MR. HENNEKE: I've review it, Judge, and the 22 Court's already, I think, approved the -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not the contract. 24 MR. HENNEKE: -- the terms, and I've reviewed the 25 contract and approved it as to form. So -- 9-12-11 14 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So the bids have been accepted, and 2 we're just doing the contract now; is that correct? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the way I understand 4 it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. Do I hear a motion for 6 approval of the agenda item to approve the contract and 7 authorize me to sign it? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 11 Question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought that we were going to 13 put this on hold. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What do you mean, put it on 15 hold? We voted to accept the bid, award the bid. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We did. Last meeting, we 18 awarded the bid to D.W. Electric. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I must have fell asleep. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You must have been asleep. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need to talk about 22 anything -- pledge of allegiance or anything? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can remember the words. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That wasn't him singing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Any other questions 9-12-11 15 1 or -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I want to make a 3 comment. I'm going to vote no, because I feel like that this 4 money can be spent better on the inside of the facility as 5 opposed to the outside. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any other questions or 7 comments? All in favor of the motion, please signify by 8 raising your right hand. 9 (Commissioners Overby, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (Commissioner Baldwin voted against the motion.) 12 13 JUDGE TINLEY: One vote no. Motion does carry. 14 Let's go to Item 5; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 15 action to clarify the details of the agreement between the 16 City of Kerrville and Kerr County related to street paving 17 done by Kerr County Road and Bridge Department. Commissioner 18 Oehler? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it seems -- you know, I 20 brought this up before, and we went forward with going ahead 21 for the time being to do the projects that were already kind 22 of in motion, but I do believe that we need to clarify the 23 details of any -- you know, of any more work to be done for 24 the City by the County at no -- no charge for manpower and 25 equipment time. I think it's time that we do that. I mean, 9-12-11 16 1 we -- there's nothing that they do for us that I know of that 2 they don't charge us for, and I don't know why we should 3 continue to give away work and time whenever it can be spent 4 on -- on projects that are maintaining our own roads. And 5 it's not much. I mean, just a reimbursement for -- I believe 6 the FEMA rates is what Leonard suggested, which is a very low 7 rate. And I just think it's time that we -- we make that 8 clear to the City, and that they know that if they ask us to 9 do work for them, that there will be a charge, other than 10 materials. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think this -- and the 12 Judge made a comment about this the last time, that he had -- 13 when he first came up with this idea with the former mayor, 14 Todd Bock, it was to try to -- as kind of a gesture to help 15 on building a foundation for improved relations and working 16 together on some projects. And that doesn't seem to have 17 happened. Probably they went the opposite direction, it 18 seems, under the new mayor. So, I kind of -- I agree with 19 Commissioner Oehler. I think -- I have no problem with us 20 providing the service at our cost on materials, and the FEMA 21 rate, which is below -- certainly below market rate on labor. 22 But I just don't, you know, feel that we can continue to do 23 it at no cost. So, anything -- you know, and I really think 24 it's up to the City to let us know what they want to do, and 25 we'll give them, you know, what the project is, and then we 9-12-11 17 1 can respond back through the Road and Bridge Department. But 2 I do not think that it should be done at no cost any more. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz is correct. I had 4 hoped that -- that by initiating this project a few years 5 ago, that it would be an opportunity to demonstrate a 6 collaboration and cooperation between the City and the County 7 in areas that -- that we could create efficiencies for and be 8 of a benefit to the taxpayers generally by -- by doing so. 9 Unfortunately, we do have the payroll to be concerned about 10 when our people are -- are doing those tasks, and we also 11 have the equipment being utilized, and we've got a lot of 12 money in that equipment. Notwithstanding the fact that 13 the -- that there might be a charge, the charge would be 14 significantly less than what contractors charge for the same 15 or similar work, and I still think there's a significant 16 efficiency, even with us breaking even, as it were. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And I'm not sure we really break 19 even when you consider the roll-ups that go into the -- the 20 wages. We -- we calculated the wages. You know, we -- when 21 I submitted the information to the City Manager here a couple 22 of weeks ago, I said this isn't a bill; it doesn't say it's a 23 bill. It doesn't say it's an invoice. I want you to be 24 aware of the value of what we are putting into this program. 25 And -- and I think they recognize that value. But I noted 9-12-11 18 1 that the -- that the labor costs were what I'm just going to 2 call the wage rates of the individuals working on those 3 projects, which does not include our payroll taxes, our 4 retirement and -- and the other benefits that we have. So, 5 actually, we're really not even recovering the cost. 6 But be that as it may, the other thing I'd be 7 concerned about is I would want any of these projects in the 8 future to be cleared in advance with our Road and Bridge 9 Administrator. Because, obviously, we've got projects that 10 we have for county roads, and he needs to attend to those 11 first, I would think. I think the last couple of years, he's 12 done a significant amount of work. There were 13 streets in 13 Riverhill last year which were sealcoated. This year, I 14 don't know how many streets were involved, but all of the 15 streets up in Virgil Merrill; Barbara Ann, Mary Frances, lots 16 of those up there were done, as well as Arcadia Loop. So, 17 it's getting to be a pretty extensive program. But I think 18 recoupment of our costs would be in order. But that still 19 provides significant value to the City. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the thing -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And I see it as appropriate, 22 Commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can -- we can do the work 24 for them also without them having to engineer specifications 25 and go out for bids and all of those things that they would 9-12-11 19 1 normally have to do, which is also a cost. Contractors 2 figure that into their -- 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: In their bids. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I will be happy, assuming the Court 5 directs me to do so, to notify the City Manager that future 6 projects will be on that basis. Number one, to recover our 7 costs for labor and -- and equipment as FEMA rates, which are 8 recognized rates; they're published. And also, that on the 9 condition that they clear it in advance with our Road and 10 Bridge Administrator. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will make a motion to that 12 effect. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 15 indicated. Question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have another comment I'd like 17 to make. I think that we need to -- your letter needs to go 18 over there, and they need to sign a copy and send it back. I 19 mean, I don't mean to go into another interlocal agreement, 20 but I would like something in writing -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Acknowledgment. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that this is what we're kind 23 of moving forward with. And the other item is for the 24 public; this project -- this, I guess, overall project the 25 last few years is probably -- I know it's in excess of 9-12-11 20 1 probably -- it's probably $100,000 or so that we've -- work 2 that we've provided for the City. And the final item, I did 3 have a meeting -- informal, social meeting with Charlie 4 Hastings right after the Arcadia Loop project. He was very 5 complimentary of Road and Bridge, and thanked me, and I'll 6 pass on to Len Odom the great job they did. They were very 7 happy. So, I know that there's -- you know, that side over 8 there is very, you know, happy, and would like to continue 9 the relationship. Hopefully we'll find a way do it. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 12 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 13 hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item 18 6; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 19 commission claimed by Carey Malek and/or Willis of Texas, 20 Inc., in connection with FY 2011-12 Kerr County employee 21 health benefits proposal submitted by Texas Association of 22 Counties. Commissioner Baldwin? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you, Judge. 24 You guys remember that every time we turn around, there's a 25 gentleman in the room, and he was our official broker year 9-12-11 21 1 after year. And we would change -- change insurance 2 companies, et cetera, and somehow he reappeared and became 3 our broker, and to this moment I still haven't figured out 4 how that worked. But if you remember, just recently -- he's 5 still around, and I think -- I think we all have kind of 6 nodded our heads and agreed that we need -- probably need to 7 separate our relationship, Kerr County and him. And so I'm 8 going to make a motion, and my motion is from January 2012 9 forward. I just -- I don't know what -- what's in the 10 process right now, so if there's something that we need to 11 add to it, we'll just amend it and go on. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, if I might, -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the agenda item speaks of the 15 claimed commission in connection with the TAC -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- employee health benefits 18 proposal. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. That's -- 20 and that would be from January 1 forward. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about what's going on 23 right now? Are we still going to -- is he still -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm asking. 25 That's what I'm asking. Is there something going on at the 9-12-11 22 1 -- between now and January 1? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know if there is or 3 not. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have some guidance 5 coming forward. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, Mr. Malek is 7 involved through Willis of Texas, as the broker in connection 8 with our current carrier, through Humana. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Our current plan through Humana. 11 And, as you recall, we discussed he had certain obligations 12 to provide that information to either us or anyone we 13 directed him to provide of claims information incurred during 14 the course of the contract through Humana. And, certainly, 15 he would -- I think would have an ongoing obligation so long 16 as we are under that Humana plan, which we will be for 17 another three-plus months. And so he -- he continues to have 18 obligations with us. The reason the agenda item is styled is 19 because there's a claimed commission to either Mr. Malek 20 or -- or Willis of Texas in connection with the proposal 21 which Texas Association of Counties submitted to us, and 22 that's in issue before the Court. And prior discussion was 23 that we decline to approve any such commission under those 24 circumstances. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. So why don't we 9-12-11 23 1 cease arrangements immediately? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we can't do it because of the 3 Humana arrangement that we have, and will have until the end 4 of this calendar year. He continues to act in that capacity, 5 and continues to have obligations to us under the Humana 6 health care plan that we have for our employees right now. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if you can move the 8 agenda item, it solves the problem. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if you just move the 11 agenda item, that solves the problem, 'cause it's specific to 12 the TAC proposal. And the 2011 -- it doesn't talk about any 13 current relationship. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm-mm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what I'm 16 asking. That's what I -- that's the general idea. Unless 17 there was something going on between this -- in this 18 arrangement between now and January 1. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me make a motion. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we cease any 23 brokerage -- broker arrangements with Carey Malek or Willis 24 of Texas beginning January 1, 2012. Does that -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that does it. 9-12-11 24 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has -- I think it has to 2 go with what the agenda item says. It singles out TAC as the 3 one where he doesn't have any direct connection. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I see TAC as beginning 5 January 1. That's -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But in the meantime, we can 7 negotiate with them. Do we want him to negotiate with them 8 between now and January 1? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are my antennas going up? 10 (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it your intention, Commissioner, 12 to not approve any commission to Mr. Malek or Willis of Texas 13 in connection with the TAC health benefits proposal for the 14 coming calendar year? Is -- is that your intention? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that your motion, then, to 17 deny and reject any claim that Mr. Malek or Willis of Texas 18 has under the Texas Association of Counties health benefits 19 proposal for 2012 which has been submitted to us? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, that's exactly... 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, there you go. 23 (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's what I said, 25 but that's fine. 9-12-11 25 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think you had some more in 2 there, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just wanted to make 4 sure. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. We have a motion and a 6 second. Further question or discussion on that motion? All 7 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now let's go 12 to Item 6 -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was 6. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, excuse me. Item 8, a 9:30 15 timed item, because it is that time now; to consider, 16 discuss, take appropriate action concerning a plan of action 17 for moving forward in reference to minimum security 18 facilities. Plan of action? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you a man of action, Sheriff? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I hope y'all are. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As you know, with this -- this 24 has been on the agenda before. We are in what I would call 25 close to being a critical situation on our inmate housing. 9-12-11 26 1 Under current jail design, I've got 32 beds. We've been over 2 40 -- 32 beds for females. We've been over 40 quite a bit 3 here lately, which means we're putting them on the floor or 4 changing out some other beds. We ended up having to convert 5 16 current male beds into female beds to accommodate that. 6 Which, because of design, I had to do them in groups that 7 big; I can't do just three or four. But what that has done 8 is cut my male capacity down to where we're full on our 9 maximum security males; I don't have any more beds for those. 10 Bandera County has sent me a possible contract if we want to 11 house out of county, and that contract -- it hasn't gone to 12 the County Attorney yet for review. I just got it last 13 Friday. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Males or females? Or both? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Females -- could be both. 16 They've got some space, but it's at a rate of at least $45 a 17 day plus, of course, any medical. Gentlemen, if we house 10 18 inmates over there, you're talking right at $500 a day, and 19 plus all the transfer costs, the medical and everything else. 20 I did have some architects and different firms come up and 21 look at our current facility and give us some ideas. One of 22 them I think this Court has worked with in the past under 23 professional services. He came up. He may want to speak 24 today; he is here, Mr. Wayne Gondeck. But I think it's time 25 that the Court seriously looks at either getting a 9-12-11 27 1 consultant, RFP's or Q's, whatever, for hiring a consultant 2 that has dealt with the Jail Commission. 3 There were some ideas that have come up that 4 instead of building two minimum security facilities -- which 5 it's not the initial investment cost that would be 6 horrendous, 'cause we could do that for under a million. 7 It's the staffing cost after that that is the continuation 8 that would cost this county. If we did two, you're talking a 9 minimum of 10 new employees for one in each facility around 10 the clock. Under some of the things that were talked about, 11 and possible -- possibly reconsidering on how we design that, 12 and redo the inside a little bit, we could look at one 13 minimum security facility with only an additional five 14 employees to operate that around the clock, so our long-term 15 cost would be a lot less than two facilities. But I would 16 open it up, you know, as to y'all. But we are at the point 17 that the Jail Commission knows we're overcrowded. They're 18 wanting us to stay in touch with them on our overcrowding. 19 They are doing a facility needs study for our facility at 20 this time. But we are in a situation -- I don't see the 21 female population going down. 22 We had a male last week that was accepted and ready 23 to go to the Dominguez Unit, the state jail, and when we got 24 down there, they said, "Sorry, we're full." County jails are 25 going to stack up. The Legislature closed some of the state 9-12-11 28 1 units. We're going to stack up. I don't have the room to 2 stack up. And at $45 to $50 a day of housing out-of-county, 3 I think -- personally, I think that is a -- a large waste of 4 the county funds to spend for other counties to take care of 5 our inmates, when we still are totally liable for those 6 inmates in those other counties, and liable for everything 7 that happens to them, medical and everything else. I think 8 it's time that we seriously look at moving forward on doing 9 something. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I went out and looked 11 at his plan last week, and while all the time he was 12 screaming at me about something else. But -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: He does that to you, too? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not the only one? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, you're not. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't feel like you're the 19 only one. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I was going to 21 have to get him a little stool there to stand on so he could 22 talk to us big kids. But the -- the plan that he's come up 23 with, and I think Wayne -- good to see you again -- will 24 probably have some positive comments to make about it. You 25 guys need to look at it. It's worthy of your time. 9-12-11 29 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have been there, and I 2 agree with you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so I just want to 4 endorse the plan right off the bat, and get -- let's get this 5 thing rolling. 'Cause I'd be -- I'd hate to see us get back 6 in the business of sending our prisoners all over the dadgum 7 state for housing, and it costs a lot of money, and just the 8 transportation issue will break us right now. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the minimum-medium idea 10 and the type of structure it is, is very inexpensive compared 11 to full-blown maximum security type jails, and I believe it 12 will -- it will help alleviate his overcrowding, and it'll 13 also help move -- move some of the population out a little 14 quicker than what they're able to do now. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sheriff, what are you -- what 16 do you estimate over the last three months -- what has our 17 general population been running, male/female, as far as in 18 our jail? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Total population has been 20 staying right at 170 or a little bit above. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? Total. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've got 192 beds. You go by 25 everything, you know, in a perfect world, and you stay in 9-12-11 30 1 with the Jail Commission's guidelines of 80 percent of your 2 total bed space is what you should use so you can classify 3 and separate out, I shouldn't be over 153. We are right at 4 20 over. Now, the other thing with housing out-of-county is 5 it's still going to cost us in personnel. I don't have the 6 personnel to send on trips constantly back and forth to other 7 counties hauling inmates, because these aren't inmates that 8 are all just waiting to go somewhere. These are inmates that 9 don't have all their court hearings taken care of yet, okay? 10 And -- and there are issues in our courts. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, a couple questions. First 12 off, with regards to the inmate that was paper-ready, is the 13 clock running -- is the meter running against the State of 14 Texas? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, but I have -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you confident they're going to 19 pay us when we bill them? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I have yet to -- State of 21 Texas -- and it may have changed in this last year, last 22 Legislature; I haven't seen it. I know they were trying, but 23 normally 50 days after they're paper-ready is when the State 24 of Texas will supposedly start reimbursing counties for -- 25 for housing those state-ready inmates. I have yet to ever 9-12-11 31 1 see a check come from the State of Texas to go to any county 2 for housing. Maybe there are some. I haven't seen it. I 3 doubt that we're going to see it, you know. But I think we 4 -- we're at the point we better start to take care of our own 5 problems. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I noticed the -- the inquiries from 7 -- that were to be submitted, they've copied me on all of 8 those things, the request for all that information from the 9 Executive Director -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the Commission wanting all the 12 detailed information. And I'm -- I've not looked in detail 13 at what you've suggested, but my recollection is when you 14 talked to me about it, you had earlier mentioned that with 15 two of these minimum units, -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that you felt like that would 18 give us at least 10 years before we'd be facing another issue 19 of -- of having to expand in some manner. My recollection of 20 our discussion was with the -- some of the modifications 21 inside, plus addition of one minimum unit, you also mentioned 22 that you felt like that also would give us at least 10 years 23 before we would be faced with the issue again. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And -- and, to be honest, with 25 one additional unit, one 48-bed minimum-medium -- you know, 9-12-11 32 1 we're upping it from just a minimum to a minimum-medium. It 2 will help me a whole lot with the males, okay? And I think 3 we could do it with males. With females, I'm adding 16 beds 4 to the current 32 beds. And there was a couple other ones 5 that -- design changes inside our current facility which will 6 up that up to possibly 18 female beds to our 32. In the last 7 10 years, I think we've done all right growing to about 18 on 8 additional females. You know, so the deal last week where 9 TDC or state prison said no is very worrisome, so I don't 10 know what that's going to do to us in the future. I was not 11 expecting that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Assuming they'll take their 13 prisoners when they're supposed to. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then I think we can come 15 very close. The females, we just -- we have to get the -- 16 and I think the courts are doing as much as they can right 17 now on a lot of that, but female population has definitely 18 been going up more in the last few years, and that's where 19 it's going to be close. Now, if we had to, and we -- and we 20 add 48 more medium-minimum male beds, where I can use that 21 other facility for it, where -- where the 16 beds are we're 22 taking, we could end up then taking the next two cell blocks 23 next to it for an additional 16 beds in the future, which 24 would give us a total of 64 female beds. But it's -- in 25 doing that totally, all we're doing is adding, you know, 48 9-12-11 33 1 male beds, giving up 32 male beds, so whether that would give 2 us enough to get through the entire deal. But adding -- the 3 entire 10 years. But adding a 48-bed facility directly 4 behind the jail that is encompassed in that 10-foot 5 razor-wire fence, and in the garden area to where every day 6 at sun-up, those inmates go into the garden and work. At 7 that point, especially those that are convicted, we're moving 8 them through that facility a whole lot quicker, because you 9 are actually getting manual labor out of them, which then 10 cuts that down, and I think helps with us all the way around. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned going from just 12 minimum to minimum-medium. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And this may be better a question 15 for Mr. Gondeck. The differential in cost going from solely 16 minimum to minimum-medium -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- the deal we had that 18 you even suggested to me to look at, the one company that was 19 building those portable-type units where they're pier and 20 beam, the last time they had them on the market then was in 21 2004, and in 2004, the 48-bed minimum-medium was $430,000. 22 THE JUDGE: So, there's a significant increase from 23 minimum only to minimum-medium? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, there is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-12-11 34 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? But that's what you -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about, what, 3 approximately tripled? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Double. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Double? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Double. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? About. But your -- 9 your ability to classify and put minimum-medium out there, 10 you know, is a whole lot better, and leave the inside for the 11 max. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- I guess a plan 14 that you would like us to approve today? And what's -- what 15 are you asking for? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm asking, because of 17 the -- the bidding process and everything else, is either 18 possibly under the professional services and that, that you 19 could go ahead and look at and approve hiring a consultant 20 that actually does that kind of work, 'cause there are some 21 modifications, so that we can get you a plan of what should 22 be done. I'm not an architect. I can't estimate costs; I 23 can't do any of that stuff. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I presume that's why you 25 brought Mr. Gondeck along? 9-12-11 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there may be a second -- 2 there was about two or three of them that had come to visit. 3 And one, Mr. Gondeck has done work with the county before and 4 has -- has his -- you know, under qualifications and under 5 professional services, and is from around here, and we've all 6 worked with him. And just whatever the Court wants to do. 7 He may have brought some little diagrams today, and I think I 8 should back up and let him visit with y'all, or these other 9 ones if they wish it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: He might make more sense than you, 11 Sheriff. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's possible. That 13 wouldn't be hard. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Gondeck? 15 MR. GONDECK: Sheriff, I appreciate it. Judge 16 Tilley (sic). My name is Wayne Gondeck from DRG Architects 17 in San Antonio. Did I say Tilley? I meant Tinley; I'm sorry 18 about that. I did meet with the Sheriff a week or so ago 19 about, you know, the issues here. I do have a couple 20 diagrams to -- to sort of talk about the issues that he 21 brought up, if you'd like for me to put those in front of 22 you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Gondeck, before we get started 24 with that, so that the public is more aware about where you 25 come from and your background, how many law enforcement jail 9-12-11 36 1 facilities have you -- you're a licensed, registered 2 architect? 3 MR. GONDECK: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How many -- how many jail facilities 5 have you handled, approximately? 6 MR. GONDECK: DRG Architects -- well, we've been 7 involved in about 100. I stopped really counting at 8 somewhere around 100 county facilities that we've been 9 involved with. Those have included, you know, new jail 10 facilities, renovations, additions to facilities -- law 11 enforcement facilities. Rooms have been added onto 12 facilities. So, as far as county jail facilities, that's in 13 our private practice. Also, I was a deputy director and 14 chief planner for the Jail Commission for five years. During 15 that time, which was also the time when the counties were 16 filing suit on the State and had the felony backlog in the 17 county jails, we went through 175 building programs during 18 that time, of which I was responsible for the compliance 19 review of all those projects, which represented about 30,000 20 jail beds that were added to the county jail inventory. So, 21 between jail standards, jail planning, jail construction, 22 jail needs, we do have a significant amount of experience in 23 this. 24 Just to go back over that a little bit, that is the 25 time also that we developed the standards for temporary 9-12-11 37 1 buildings and tent structures at that time back in 1992, '93, 2 around that time. Since that time, many structures have been 3 developed as either low-risk or medium-security facilities in 4 a temporary fashion that have later been brought into a 5 permanent housing. I would tell you that also in this mode, 6 the Jail Commission does push for that, in many instances, to 7 look at some of these either modular or freestanding 8 structures as a temporary facility, to make sure that they 9 are -- because a lot of times they have alternate 10 construction materials. You know, they're not built out of 11 steel and concrete, so they want to basically test the 12 facilities over the first three-year period, make sure that 13 they do hold up, and then after that, do approve them for 14 permanent, you know, use in a facility. Recently, we did go 15 through that with Bexar County. They put together four units 16 for a 96-bed facility down there, county annex on North Comal 17 Street. It was initially developed as a temporary facility 18 and converted to a -- a permanent facility; has now been 19 approved as a permanent structure to their annex down in 20 Bexar County. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that kind of seem to be the 22 model now on these prefab or modular type, that they're 23 initially classified as a temporary, and then because of the 24 history that's developing, after that three-year temporary 25 period has expired, they're rolled over, as it were, into a 9-12-11 38 1 permanent facility? 2 MR. GONDECK: Yes, sir. And, you know, I have had 3 this -- this discussion with Brandon Wood, the Assistant 4 Director of Planning at the Jail Commission, as to, you know, 5 trying to push the issue to have them approve facilities on a 6 permanent basis. Obviously, from a regulatory standpoint, 7 that is their preference to have that, to basically have it 8 presented as a -- a temporary structure. You know, we can go 9 in at any time and ask for it to be approved as a permanent 10 structure. It's just a process that they prefer. You know, 11 I know that the Sheriff is not asking for a temporary 12 facility. He hits me over the head every time I say that. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if the Judge will 14 recall, and Commissioner Baldwin, y'all went to Bastrop and 15 looked at that. That is a permanent facility that they have. 16 Brandon Wood, who is the Assistant Director of the State Jail 17 Commission and in charge of their planning and everything, is 18 the one that recommended that we go look at that facility, 19 that we look at taking that type, so that's why I'm saying -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For minimum? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For minimum, okay. Now, one 22 other issue real quick, and I'll let Mr. Gondeck... If y'all 23 recall, you know, in 2009 we were able to house some of 24 Gillespie County's, Kendall County's, or Kimble's -- you 25 know, several counties, and I don't -- couldn't tell you; the 9-12-11 39 1 Auditor would have to look at what income that brought into 2 Kerr County for those other inmates. 2010, we were able to 3 do it a little bit. We were doing four or five from 4 Gillespie County, and that was up around 6,000 a month, 5 something like that, that we were bringing in from Gillespie 6 County. That ceased last week. I had to get all those -- 7 those inmates out from Gillespie County, because they were 8 males. I wasn't housing females, but once I converted the 9 females -- the males to females, then I lost that capability, 10 so now we have already taken a $6,000 to $7,000 hit a month 11 away because of -- of what we've had to do recently. We 12 don't house any other counties' inmates at all any more, 13 because I just can't do it. I do have one female in our jail 14 for murder that is out of Menard. Menard can't house a 15 female, plus there's been a change of venue there. That 16 trial is here, okay? That attorney's here, so we're still 17 housing that one female, because she had a change of venue to 18 Kerr County. But we're -- we're at that point. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not in a position to -- other 20 than to talk about a plan, to do anything specific here 21 today, but I wanted those that are here today and the public 22 to be aware what your background was; that your familiarity 23 with these types of facilities is not something that you 24 started on day before yesterday. As a matter of fact, your 25 most recent activity here was the Juvenile Detention Facility 9-12-11 40 1 expansion project, the part that's being utilized now for our 2 current prejudication juveniles. The -- Commissioner, what 3 do you think -- what do you suggest we do at this point to 4 move forward? A request for qualifications? Or -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if our agenda item 6 allows us to do that, I think -- it's not real broad, I see. 7 But I -- I think what Rusty requested is to have someone, an 8 architectural-type person, put together a plan to present to 9 us. How you go about doing that, I don't know. But I want 10 to add to your comment. I -- about Wayne's background. I 11 think he's a second generation jail guy. I remember his dad 12 was involved in this stuff for many years. He's been around 13 the block a couple of times. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I agree. It doesn't 15 appear we can take action today, but if we're going to -- I'm 16 looking at the County Attorney with this one. For his 17 services, we don't need to bid that, correct? We can just 18 hire -- for professional services? 19 MR. HENNEKE: Professional services consultant in 20 connection with an RFP? Is that what you're asking about? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we can -- I mean, is it 22 possible to hire someone like Mr. Gondeck to get us to the 23 next step of something that then we can put out for bid of 24 some sort? Or do we need to do an RF -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: RFQ. 9-12-11 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- RFQ for -- to hire 2 Mr. Gondeck or someone of his type with the same 3 qualifications? 4 MR. HENNEKE: That question puts me on the spot. 5 Be glad to make sure the answer's right before I respond. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, why don't we wait 7 till the next agenda, and you get with Rusty and figure out 8 whatever the approach, and get something on the agenda so 9 that we can get to that next step of hiring. 'Cause I think 10 we need to hire someone with a background like Mr. Gondeck, 11 if not Mr. Gondeck, to get us to the next step. Because we 12 want to make sure we're in compliance with Jail Commission, 13 and the only way we can really insure that is if we have 14 someone that is all ready to build jails. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree with that. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Next meeting will be -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I would say 18 is -- and why I brought it up as a consultant -- I'll get 19 with Rob and we'll bring it back on the next agenda. The one 20 company that really works and builds these modular ones is a 21 company called Ramtech, okay? Judge, you had forwarded that. 22 They are already under the state bid and Buy Board 23 requirements. You would not have to go out for bids for the 24 facility. Some of the inside stuff, you may. But if our 25 consultant -- local architect/consultant works, you know, 9-12-11 42 1 through that, then we also bypass all that engineering and 2 bidding issues. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But we've -- we do want someone that 4 specifically looks at our facility, tailors specifications 5 and requirements to be submitted to anyone, even if they're 6 Buy Board. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That writes our plan to be, "This is 9 what we want and how we want it." 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So we need someone on our team such 12 as Mr. Gondeck, or someone similarly qualified. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. GONDECK: Judge, if I just could make a couple 16 comments? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 18 MR. GONDECK: Obviously, we are -- we're interested 19 in working with Kerr County. We understand the limitations, 20 both with the -- however the agenda was posted. However, 21 y'all need to move forward, whether or not that is with an 22 RFQ or not. Obviously, we can't propose anything to the 23 County without being selected as an architect -- or 24 consultant. So, you know, obviously, our hands are tied 25 prior to -- 9-12-11 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We've also got our hands tied here. 2 MR. GONDECK: So, we understand the process. We 3 also understand that there are more than likely more than 4 just DRG Architects being interested in serving, you know, 5 Kerr County. However, you know, we -- if y'all do put out an 6 RFQ, you know, for services, we'll respond to that and move 7 forward in that regard. As the Sheriff did say, you know, 8 that would be mainly for the site development, and more of 9 putting together a design criteria package if we are going to 10 go forward with the modular type of construction. So, that 11 may be a little bit different than going in and a design 12 services contract for designing a structure, so those are 13 some things to start keeping in mind when you're requesting 14 that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. We 16 appreciate it, Mr. Gondeck. Any other matters in connection 17 with that particular item? Let's go to a timed item for 18 9:40, Item Number 9; to consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action to present various employee health 20 benefits proposals and accept preferred proposal for 2011-12 21 Kerr County employee health benefits program. Mr. Looney. 22 MR. LOONEY: Morning, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been fielding the inquiries 24 and doing the arm-twisting and whatnot. What do you have for 25 us? 9-12-11 44 1 MR. LOONEY: Gary Looney. Well, I saw the agenda 2 item, so I went ahead and did a recalculation on the rate 3 structures in relationship with TAC. I got these on Thursday 4 afternoon last week, Judge. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have extra, Gary? 6 Let's see. I don't know if the County Attorney needs one or 7 not. But -- and then there's the personnel director in the 8 of the room. 9 MR. LOONEY: I was sitting next to her. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were you really? 11 MR. LOONEY: I was. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're a smart man. 13 MR. LOONEY: You better believe it. So, what I did 14 is I contacted Texas Association of Counties and had them 15 recalculate the rate based on a net of commission contract. 16 The first page is the original proposal that they provided to 17 us. The second page is the recalculation of the premium rate 18 in recognition of that reduction. And then the following 19 pages are the same pages that we had before, where we 20 described the plan of benefits that's being offered for TAC 21 in both plans. We have -- dealing with TAC, one of the 22 positive things in dealing with TAC is the fact that they're 23 able to give us a rate 90 days in advance of the anniversary 24 date of the contract. One of the negative things in dealing 25 with TAC is that they give us a rate 90 days in advance of 9-12-11 45 1 the contract. (Laughter.) So -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Our claims history may be worse or 3 better, depending. 4 MR. LOONEY: Well, may be worse or better, but our 5 -- but the -- but we get a little bit of -- when we're 6 dealing with an outside of the pool entity, we deal with a 7 little bit different underwriting concept and a different 8 theory. When we deal with a pool entity, which the TAC pool 9 is, not only do we deal with the insuring company, but we 10 also deal with that administrative body, which is the Texas 11 Association of Counties employee benefits pool management 12 group. So, there's -- there's more than -- there's two or 13 three parties that we have to deal with during the 14 negotiation process. And there's always that -- you know, we 15 get to a certain point with administration. Administration 16 says, "Well, I got to go back to the pool membership and see 17 if we can get this approved or not," and back and forth. So, 18 we've got a premium rate structure, though, that's been 19 promised to us at the current enrollment that we have with 20 the county. That rate is guaranteed. 21 Once they have given us that rate, and then I've 22 given it to you, there are some administrative issues that we 23 still would like to work with and negotiate with the Texas 24 Association of Counties, which could impact some -- the 25 manner in which enrollments are done. May impact a little 9-12-11 46 1 bit -- there is -- there are two or three requirements that 2 the fund has that are not in our current contractual 3 agreements, one of which is that they require the retirees to 4 pay the full premium that is required of an individual 5 employee. But they also have a caveat that says, you know, 6 whatever you're doing currently. So, I have to work with 7 them on that to find out what's the actual premium rate they 8 want to charge for retirees, and how they want to handle 9 retirees. Because once the funds -- once the pool sets the 10 requirements of how they're going to deal with it, it's very 11 difficult to do much variation in that process because of the 12 pool integrity. So, we have some other administrative issues 13 that we'd like to negotiate with, and -- and what I'd like is 14 a little -- for the Court not to say, "Okay, we're accepting 15 this contract with the current rates." Because I think we 16 may still have some room to -- to bring that rate down. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask you this question, 19 Mr. Looney. Your -- as part and parcel of your analysis and 20 evaluation, you are continuing to consider refinements of 21 Humana's offer, I assume, are you not? 22 MR. LOONEY: We have discussed that with them. But 23 one thing that -- that Texas Association of Counties, under 24 their process, is that their rates being revealed in public, 25 as they are now, -- 9-12-11 47 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. 2 MR. LOONEY: -- then they're very concerned about 3 that process, then, of that leverage being used with the 4 current carrier. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't keep you from -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Doesn't keep me from doing it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- continuing to consider what 8 Humana has to -- 9 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: A review of new coverage. And, of 11 course, that's something that you continue to -- 12 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- weigh as against what you're 14 receiving -- 15 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from all -- from all proposers? 17 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I feel like I'm in a 20 dèjà vu, or Groundhog Day. We just had that same 21 conversation on Friday, and Friday we said we were going to 22 decide Monday what we were going to do, and that's why it's 23 on the agenda today. I mean, I'm ready to go with TAC. I 24 mean, it's a nonprofit. Their rate structure is pretty much 25 fixed. They've given us the rates, from what they've told 9-12-11 48 1 me. I mean, I've met with TAC numerous times in conferences 2 and other times. I don't -- I'm afraid to go on. I mean, 3 we've got the premium. If we can get them a little bit 4 lower -- there's HRA things definitely that we're looking at, 5 and may or may not do, and things like that. But -- 6 MR. LOONEY: One of the negotiations with TAC is 7 the administration of the H.R.A. program. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that -- you know, 9 that's -- I mean, I agree that that obviously is out, and I 10 don't want to necessarily lock in totally, but I'm ready to 11 commit to TAC. And if there are administrative things 12 possibly we can work on, so be it. If you can give -- is 13 there any indication, or do we have anything that they're 14 even -- I mean, they're not -- they're not changing their 15 rates, are they? 16 MR. LOONEY: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, we've been back to 18 them and said, "Can do you anything?" And they came back and 19 said, "No, there's your rates." 20 MR. LOONEY: They're not changing rates based on 21 negotiations to this point. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, for budgetary purposes, we can 24 use these numbers for planning and setting our budget. But 25 what I'm hearing Mr. Looney say is, there are some other 9-12-11 49 1 negotiations to be had concerning some refinements other than 2 that rate structure, per se, and he -- he wants to maintain 3 some leverage in being able to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think we ought to explore 5 -- allow a little bit more time to let that negotiating 6 process still run its course. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My understanding is that TAC is 8 a nonprofit entity, essentially. And, I mean, they kind of 9 give you a rate. There's not -- it's not like there's a 10 profit that they can -- that they're working off of. 11 MR. LOONEY: Well, it's -- it's a pool and a fund. 12 So, you know, it's -- they're doing management of cash flow, 13 so -- within their organization. And they do have gain and 14 loss requirements they do have, you know. I mean, so there 15 are -- it's not as if they're going to give it to us, 16 Commissioner. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney, let me ask you this. Do 19 you have an idea of when you might have these final details? 20 MR. LOONEY: I'll have it -- I'll have it by next 21 week. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But have -- I mean, we asked 23 for more final details, and we got the same thing back. 24 MR. LOONEY: If you want -- if you want to approve 25 the contract as-is, with the possibility of it being reduced 9-12-11 50 1 through further negotiation, I assume that you can do that. 2 I don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I want to wait. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll sign the contract, but 5 if you want to save us some more money, we'll -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Right, exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- we'll sign another 8 contract? 9 MR. LOONEY: No, not sign a contract yet. We want 10 to -- we may clarify the numbers. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk a little bit about this 12 retirement and -- and the fund requiring the retiree to pay 13 100 percent. 14 MR. LOONEY: Well, there's -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the benefit to the 16 fund for that? Or did I misunderstanding you? 17 MR. LOONEY: No. What it says in their stipulation 18 was actually on the page I gave you, so the retirees pay the 19 same premium as active employees for medical and dental, 20 regardless of age. What they really are not wanting to do is 21 for the County to subsidize retiree premium, so that they do 22 not receive -- the retirees then are more apt to retire, and 23 they really were trying to limit the number of retirees under 24 -- under the fund. So, they want the -- at least for them to 25 pay the same premium that employees are paying. Employee 9-12-11 51 1 premium. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The benefits to the retirees would 3 be open enrollment, no evidence of insurability required. 4 MR. LOONEY: Some of the -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Which could be very valuable here. 6 MR. LOONEY: We're not going to change our 7 requirements for employee and retiree eligibility. It's just 8 that the eligibility requirement, then, for them, if you do 9 have retirees that are eligible, then they're required to pay 10 the higher premium that the employee would pay. But they're 11 trying not to subsidize a retiree population. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We've been moving to that gradually 13 for a number of years, because it's -- it's been a 14 significant burden with -- with subsidizing that premium. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I still -- I make a motion to 16 authorize Mr. Looney to finalize the contract with TAC. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 19 authorize Mr. Looney to finalize the contract with TAC. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's -- I see that as 21 having some wiggle room in there. You can talk with them. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With the door open to 23 finalize another contract. 24 MR. LOONEY: Well, when the final contract gets 25 here, it'll be the number. 9-12-11 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As it should. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it can't -- and Mr. Looney 3 can't finalize a contract until we decide on the H.R.A., 4 which is a budget issue. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or comments? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We'll have the other 7 information next Monday; is that correct? 8 MR. LOONEY: I -- the Court meets next Monday? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, we meet next -- 10 MS. HARGIS: 21st. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 21st. 12 MR. LOONEY: 21st? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- next Wednesday. We can put that 14 on our Wednesday agenda for final approval of the contract. 15 MR. LOONEY: I'm going to be out of town. I'll be 16 out of the state on Wednesday. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We meet again on Friday, and we have 18 a public hearing and some other matters. That's probably a 19 little soon. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This week. 21 MR. LOONEY: This week? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Friday week. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 16th. Too soon? 24 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. I have -- it's too soon. And I 25 have to be in Dallas for a meeting on Friday. 9-12-11 53 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could also have a special 3 meeting next Monday, couldn't we? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Couldn't we just have a one 7 agenda item meeting on Monday? 8 MR. LOONEY: Monday or Tuesday. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which day? 10 MR. LOONEY: Tuesday morning would be better. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- 12 MR. LOONEY: I'm sorry, Monday would be better. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19th? Is that what you're 14 talking about? 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Next Monday. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Today's the 12th. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I have -- I have that 18 we're here on Wednesday, the 21st. Is that not true? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's for a public hearing. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But he can't be here. 21 MR. LOONEY: I'll be out of state. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So you can be here 23 Monday? 24 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what the -- 9-12-11 54 1 MR. LOONEY: Won't take long. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a dental appointment. 3 Hopefully I can move that. Or if it's going to be a short 4 one, if we could do it by 8:30 or 9:00, hopefully we'll be 5 done. 6 MR. LOONEY: 8:30 or 9:00? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We're going to have the 8 H.R. -- we're going to have all the HRA stuff, the 9 administrative stuff solved in time for Monday, Mr. Looney? 10 The contract. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 MR. LOONEY: On Monday, for the H.R.A. piece of it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. That's what -- that's -- 14 you're talking about bringing the final contract to us. I'm 15 not sure what we're talking about. I've made a motion to 16 vote now, and it was seconded. I'm not sure -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you get three votes, all 18 this is a moot deal. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to figure out why 20 we're still setting up a meeting. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're calling for the question? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Well, what is the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To authorize -- I want TAC to 9-12-11 55 1 know we want him to negotiate a final deal with them. They 2 -- I talked to them last Thursday. They have not heard that 3 from us. I want them to hear it. I mean, they haven't 4 checked their pricing. The only thing up there really that 5 I've heard Mr. Looney say is the H.R.A. card administrative 6 part of it, really, and we haven't even decided on that. So, 7 I mean, I don't understand what we're -- why we're not just 8 making the decision to go with TAC. That's what I don't 9 understand. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have the full deal, in my 11 opinion. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are we waiting for? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- question's been called. All in 14 favor of the motion as framed, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (Commissioners Baldwin and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 18 (Commissioners Overby and Oehler voted against the 19 motion.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes negative. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Monday? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion fails to carry. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Monday at 9:00 or what? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 8:30? 25 MR. LOONEY: 8:30? 9-12-11 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8:30? And, Judge, I find 2 that very similar to a dentist appointment, actually. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Could be, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was thinking about 5 something else. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's an Airport Board 7 meeting that morning. I've got -- I will not be here. 8 THE REPORTER: I won't either. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Kathy won't be here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Airport Board meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What time? 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's at 8:30. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going to be a long one, I 15 bet. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't want to interfere 17 with the Airport Board. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's already set. Kathy's 19 already committed to that time. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Late morning? 21 MR. LOONEY: Late morning, early afternoon. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11:00 would probably be all 23 right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Will you be through by 11:00? You 25 don't know. 9-12-11 57 1 MS. HARGIS: I doubt it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I suspect 11:00, we should be 3 done. I don't think -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we set it for 1:00, just 5 to be safe? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Give Kathy a break, 7 hopefully. 8 MR. LOONEY: 1 o'clock. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 10 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1 o'clock. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. It is somewhat like 13 a dental appointment, isn't it, Buster? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is, yeah. Root canals. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Colonoscopy. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be quiet on that comment. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Watch it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me see what we got here 19 in the way of timed items. We have a 10 o'clock timed item, 20 Item 13; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 21 Alamo Area Council of Governments Agency Report on Aging for 22 Kerr County, a presentation to be given by AACOG Director 23 Gloria Vasquez, Aging Director, focusing on the aging issues 24 impacting Kerr County. 25 MS. VASQUEZ: Good morning. 9-12-11 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 2 MS. VASQUEZ: I brought a backup. I did send in a 3 Power Point; I don't know if that's going to be -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Jody, do you know where our 5 tech -- tech guy is? 6 MS. HARGIS: John? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: John. 8 MS. HARGIS: We have our computer here. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Can you set it up? 10 MS. MABRY: Well, this is not plugged in up where 11 she can use the screen. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You got your laptop? 13 MS. VASQUEZ: I do. I'm going to have to do my 14 USB; it's going to take a few minutes. I don't know if you 15 want to... 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think we'll be okay. Go 17 ahead, yeah. 18 MS. VASQUEZ: Judge, Commissioners, staff and 19 guests, my name is Gloria Vasquez. I am, as I was 20 introduced, the Aging Director, and I have had people take it 21 more ways than one. I am aging, so I fit quite nicely, I 22 think, into the role. I've been with AACOG for a little over 23 a year. I guess it's been now a year and three months. But 24 I'm here to give you some information about the Area Agency 25 on Aging and how it relates to the services that are provided 9-12-11 59 1 in Kerr County. Our mission is, we are dedicated to building 2 communities that support older residents and allow them to 3 age in place with dignity, security, and an enhanced quality 4 of life. And isn't that what we all want? Alamo Area Agency 5 on Aging, what we are is a program of the Alamo Area Council 6 of Governments, AACOG, and as you all know, Commissioner 7 Overby is the representative for Kerr County on the AACOG 8 Board, and we're very fortunate to have him. Thank you, 9 Commissioner. 10 We are based on the federal Older Americans Act, 11 and that is actually up for reauthorization this year, so you 12 may be hearing some of that conversation going on as we 13 speak. A lot of that has taken precedence. The act was 14 signed in 1965, and really put in some very strong and secure 15 positions for older Americans. But what it does, it 16 basically tells us what we are to do for older Americans. 17 And as the Triple-A -- and, again, that's another acronym for 18 another popular agency, but we call ourselves the Alamo 19 Triple-A. Our role is to serve as the advocate and the focal 20 point for older individuals in the different communities. 21 Because we fall under the auspices of AACOG, we do provide 22 services to the 11 rural counties, one of which is Kerr. As 23 a Triple-A, we are also charged to monitor, evaluate, and 24 comment upon all the policies, programs, hearings, levies, 25 and community actions that might affect our older Americans, 9-12-11 60 1 or older individuals in our counties. 2 Part of the role of that is also to establish an 3 advisory council, and we have the Alamo Senior Advisory 4 Council. And I'm also pleased to say that we have two of our 5 members here. I don't think they're here for that 6 specifically, but they are Kerr residents; Ms. Patrice 7 Doerries, who currently serves as our secretary, and Tina 8 Woods. She's the director of the Dietert Center. And so 9 they sit on our -- our committee, and they do represent Kerr 10 County very well. What the advisory council does is, it's 11 composed of older individuals, family caregivers, service 12 providers, of which Tina and Patrice are both, local elected 13 officials, and we have providers of veterans health care and 14 the general public, so it's a very good, well-rounded 15 committee that we draw on to give us advice on the different 16 types of programs and the issues that are affecting older 17 Americans. 18 The Triple-A's also foster systems development, and 19 part of all that governing services that we offer, there is a 20 process that we go through. It's called development of the 21 area plan. It's developed every three years, and we do a lot 22 of work to prepare that plan. There's a lot of demographic 23 information that goes into it, statistical information, 24 needs-based from the counties. I believe in 2010, there was 25 actually a focus group that was held here in Kerr County 9-12-11 61 1 where individuals were invited to come in and provide 2 information, provide their input about services that were 3 needed in this particular area. And the other thing that we 4 try to do through the Triple-A is to find additional funding 5 resources. As you all know, the federal government has only 6 a set amount of dollars that they provide to us, and it 7 always seems that our needs -- the funding dollars never keep 8 up with the needs that we have, so that is part of our role 9 too, is to try to find additional funding to support 10 services. 11 I'm going to talk a little bit about the programs. 12 One of the major programs that we are involved in is 13 providing nutritious meals, and so we have two sets of 14 particular meals that we offer. Congregate meals in the 15 different areas is where seniors are given the opportunity to 16 come to a center and enjoy not only the meal, but 17 socialization with other seniors. And, again, those are 18 probably your more mobile seniors who can either get there by 19 themselves, or have someone bring them. We provide 20 transportation to those centers as well. In 2010, our 21 congregate meal program expenses were 523,347, and we served 22 2,441 people. Number of meals served was 92,944. Kerr's 23 portion of that 92,000 was 12,260. That's how many meals 24 were served here in Kerr County last year. 25 I included kind of a little service map in your 9-12-11 62 1 packet. We cover the 11 rural counties that surround Bexar, 2 so if you take Bexar out of the picture, you'll see all the 3 other counties that we provide services to. The other 4 component of nutrition are the home-delivered meals, and 5 that's for seniors who are homebound, who can't leave their 6 home for whatever reason, whether they're, you know, 7 immobile, they have different medical issues. And so we 8 insure that they get a home-delivered meal. In 2010 -- and 9 that is a bigger area of expense for us, because, again, it's 10 the rural community. In 2010, we expended $879,347. We 11 served 1,598 people, and the total number of meals served was 12 137,977. Of that portion, Kerr participated in 28,875. So, 13 when you look at it, I guess the congregate meals is roughly 14 about 10 percent. Here you're seeing a little -- little less 15 number, and we calculate that according to population. Those 16 numbers are -- those dollars and numbers are allocated. But 17 I have had the chance to visit the Dietert Center; it's a 18 wonderful center. I know that Tina Woods has been there for 19 some time and does a fabulous job, and is a very good, strong 20 advocate for the seniors in Kerr County, not only for the 21 home-delivered meals, but for the different programs that are 22 offered. 23 The other listing is just a quick listing of all 24 the other different programs that we offer. The care 25 coordination is the actual process of when people call in, 9-12-11 63 1 and they're looking for assistance, so we try to match them 2 up with different services. At some point, there's 3 assessments that are done, and our staff travel out to the 4 rural communities and visit with them in their homes and 5 assess what their needs might be, and then try to match them 6 up with different services. Homemaker services is where we 7 provide an individual -- or a business provides an individual 8 that will come in and help an elderly person with homemaking, 9 whether -- it may be making the bed, cooking a light meal, a 10 little bit of light housekeeping. Sometimes our seniors just 11 need that little bit of assistance for themselves to make 12 sure that they can stay in their own home. 13 Residential repair is a very limited budget for us, 14 and that is an area where there's a lot of needs. But 15 residential repair covers -- the primary request that we get 16 is for ramps. Ramps are very expensive, and so it's been 17 very difficult for us to allocate a lot of funding for that. 18 Given also the fact that we have 11 counties, and 11 -- and 19 seniors in those 11 counties that have those kind of needs, 20 we've also been trying to find contractors that will work 21 with us and give us a good rate on that. We work with Texas 22 Ramp Project. I don't know if you all are familiar with 23 that, but that is a volunteer base. They're getting a little 24 stronger in central Texas, so we're looking to make our 25 partnership with them a little -- a little more stronger so 9-12-11 64 1 that we can provide more serves. 2 Health maintenance encompasses areas like providing 3 funds for classes, for medication. Sometimes a senior just 4 needs a little bit of help with that, so they'll call in to 5 us, and if they qualify, we can award up to $200 for that 6 particular service. Personal assistance involves a senior 7 getting more help with grooming, with bathing, those kinds of 8 things. It's a little more personal to their individual 9 selves, as a differentiation to homemaker. And then personal 10 emergency response monitors are -- we contract with a service 11 for those little -- well, I say little -- buttons that are on 12 a string; now they're on a bracelet. But in the event that a 13 senior who's living alone or living in isolation falls or has 14 an accident or needs help, they have help at the access of 15 that emergency response. So, in all those areas, our total 16 expenditures were $470,174. Total people served, 6,645. And 17 I apologize; I tried to pull that out just for Kerr County, 18 and I wasn't able to do that on Friday. I can get that 19 information to you, Commissioner, and then perhaps you can 20 distribute that. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 22 MS. VASQUEZ: We also offer health and wellness, 23 which seems to be a growing tend. As seniors are -- aging 24 Baby Boomers are hitting the aging market, it's very 25 imperative that we keep and maintain our health. We cover 9-12-11 65 1 chronic disease self-management, falls prevention, medication 2 management, and overall physical fitness. Also, diabetes 3 self-management. So, as we see those more prevalent 4 illnesses among our seniors, we spent last year $28,991 and 5 served 751 people. Of those 751, 71 of those were in Kerr -- 6 Kerr County. And we are looking to form continued alliances 7 in this area so that we can have more instructors come out 8 and give those classes, and those are predominantly taught by 9 volunteers. So, if you all can help with any recruitment of 10 volunteers in our area, we would be much appreciative. 11 Specialized transportation. We partner with Alamo 12 Rural Transit, which is a program of AACOG to provide 13 transportation for seniors, primarily for medical 14 appointments or for dialysis. On occasion, we also transport 15 them to the nutrition centers. So, it is -- it is public 16 transportation. And I guess one of the things that I think 17 we've had some issues in Kerr County is because of the 18 distance. Sometimes seniors will ride on the bus for an 19 extended period of time, because the bus will pick someone 20 up, then go pick another person up, make a third stop maybe, 21 and then finally drop them off at their destinations. I know 22 A.R.T. has been working very hard to try to better their 23 services and make it more convenient for seniors, but that's 24 kind of the nature of the beast when they're doing public 25 transportation. Last year we served 204 people. There were 9-12-11 66 1 10,774 rides that were afforded throughout the region. And, 2 again, this is a stat that I was trying to pull from the 3 transportation folks, and they were supposed to e-mail it to 4 me, and I didn't get a chance to check my Blackberry before I 5 was called up. But this is -- I know for a fact that this is 6 not an area that's very utilized in Kerr. Again, I've had 7 input from -- from residents, and it's been some of the 8 above-mentioned facts, that it's not as convenient a lot of 9 times; they may not be running on schedule, and that they 10 transport a lot of people on one trip. So, we're currently 11 trying to improve that service. 12 We also offer assistance to family caregivers, and 13 that is really happening more and more as the Baby Boomers 14 come of age. You've heard of the sandwich generation. We 15 are now in between our children and our parents, and so we're 16 right in the middle. And for most people, if you are taking 17 care of a parent, or even a child, you become the caregiver. 18 So, our caregiver services are also very much in demand. We 19 spent $579,112. Again, that's really more staff-intensive 20 because of the coordination that goes on with that. 21 Caregivers served 4,276, and we actually sponsor -- we've 22 sponsored three different events in Kerr in relationship to 23 caregivers and professional development, and so we -- we see 24 this as an area that -- that folks really need the education, 25 need the support. Caregivers are in a very precarious 9-12-11 67 1 situation, because while they're trying to care for a parent, 2 they may miss work. They may have to juggle different 3 things, which may result in a lot of things, jeopardizing 4 their job. But we try to provide some of that assistance to 5 caregivers so they can continue to balance what they do for 6 their family members. 7 Benefits counseling. As you all may or may not 8 know, Medicare and Medicaid are systems that are very hard -- 9 very complex, and they change. They change every year. So, 10 we have individuals on our staff that can provide benefits 11 counseling, and they -- if you call in, they can help you 12 navigate through that complex system, perhaps show -- talk to 13 you about the different drug plans, the different plans that 14 are offered, and help you make sense of all of that. So, our 15 staff is trained to be able to do that. Long-term care 16 ombudsman. And I had never heard the word "ombudsman" until 17 I came to AACOG, but I'm told it's a Swedish word, and what 18 it means is advocate. But it's an advocate for the seniors 19 that reside in nursing homes. 20 We have three staff members, one of them that is 21 assigned to this particular area in Kerr. We have -- I 22 believe it's seven nursing homes in this area, and they are 23 visited once a month. The assisted livings are visited only 24 once a year. The mandate is for us to visit the actual 25 nursing homes, so once a month our staff comes out. They 9-12-11 68 1 visit with the clients, individuals. A lot of them just 2 check in, get a hug, get a hello. On occasion, those 3 residents will have complaints. Because one of the issues 4 is -- is that that's what the ombudsman is there to do, to 5 help facilitate any issues that may arise in the nursing 6 home. And so this year, our ombudsman handled 52 concerns in 7 Kerr nursing homes out of the 500 that we did total. And so 8 when you see this number here of persons served, that just 9 means those are complaints that we got. They actually see a 10 lot more people, because they visit every month, every 11 nursing home. 12 We're also taking a new direction this year into -- 13 into vets, looking into veterans' issues. It's not something 14 that's been prevalent for the Triple-A in the past, but we're 15 seeing, again, more and more need as our veterans -- as our 16 military personnel are coming back in great need. We're 17 looking at different grants to be able to provide anything 18 from transportation to personal assistance, homemaker 19 assistance, jobs for our veterans. So, we're partnering with 20 Bexar County Triple-A to see what opportunities are out 21 there. Actually, we're in the process of writing two grants. 22 One does involve transportation, but the other is Workforce 23 related, so that we can reach out to the rural counties. And 24 we know that Kerr is definitely a hub for veterans, and we 25 want to be well positioned for what's coming. 9-12-11 69 1 Final page, just to kind of give you an idea -- you 2 know, again, things are always changing. As you see the 3 picture on the right of Whistler's mother, and there's 4 actually a date on there -- oh, she's 65. If you look to the 5 left, there's a picture of Tina Turner, who is 69. So, you 6 see the difference between seniors then and seniors now, and 7 that will continue to change, I think. If we can continue to 8 stay healthy and keep active, keep our brains and our bodies 9 engaged, there's a higher likelihood that we will -- I'm not 10 saying I will look like Tina Turner at age 69, but hopefully 11 I can get around just as well as she can. And on the back 12 page, I actually have listed the 1-866 number that is a 13 number for anyone to call if they have any kinds of questions 14 relative to -- in relation to senior questions, issues, 15 concerns. We're always available to be of assistance. So, 16 thank you, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I want to thank Ms. Doerries and 18 Ms. Woods for being our representatives. I know they've been 19 very, very active -- 20 MS. VASQUEZ: They have. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on that. And, of course, 22 Ms. Woods -- she's got an operation going over there that's 23 probably as good as any in the state. 24 MS. VASQUEZ: Spectacular. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Or in the nation for serving 9-12-11 70 1 seniors. How many Meals on Wheels -- how many -- not those 2 served at the center, but how many Meals on Wheels do you 3 serve in a year's time? 4 MS. WOODS: Last fiscal year, we did 57,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And what is your average cost 6 per meal? 7 MS. WOODS: Meals on Wheels this year is going to 8 be $5.36. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 5.36? And what about those that you 10 serve there at the center? 11 MS. WOODS: We do about 20,000 in the dining room. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And what do those run? 13 MS. WOODS: The cost there is 5.50 if you're under 14 60, but if you're 60 and older, you eat by donation. 15 MS. VASQUEZ: And if I may, Judge, they do an 16 awesome job. We only cover part of all those expenses. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. VASQUEZ: It's up to Ms. Woods and her staff. 19 They do an excellent job of fundraising, and they don't turn 20 anyone away. So, it -- I agree with you; they do a 21 tremendous job. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And they got some pretty good grub 23 over there, too. 24 MS. WOODS: Yes, we do. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster will vouch for that, I know. 9-12-11 71 1 He -- he sashays by there on pretty frequent occasion. 2 Right, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, that is true. 4 Absolutely excellent. Actually, this whole Court has eaten 5 over there. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I have a question. Gloria 9 and Patrice and Tina, again, thank you for everything that 10 you folks do. Again, we're always grateful for AACOG's 11 efforts in helping with Kerr County projects and the 12 different things that you do here. Question. I know that, 13 Patrice, we attended a meeting in May, and we looked at 14 different issues that are impacting Kerr County right now. 15 What are the -- what's the most issue of major concern right 16 now? I know a lot of times we hear about child abuse and 17 different things like that, and different areas, but we're 18 having senior abuse today, maybe not -- because of medicines 19 they aren't getting or different things that aren't 20 happening. Can you expand on any of that -- or Tina or 21 Patrice, on any of the issues that are becoming, you know, a 22 major, major situation that we're having right now on that? 23 MS. VASQUEZ: The only thing I -- 24 MS. DOERRIES: Self-neglect. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Self-neglect. 9-12-11 72 1 MS. DOERRIES: Last year we had over 300 cases of 2 self-neglect in Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. DOERRIES: And this is where a senior has just 5 given up. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mainly ones who've lost their 7 spouse? 8 MS. DOERRIES: Right. Right. Over 300 in 2010. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Do we have any idea what the 10 number is right now in 2011? 11 MS. DOERRIES: No. Lesley Flores with A.P.S. would 12 be able to -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 14 MS. DOERRIES: -- alert you to that. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A lot of opportunities, what 16 we're just saying, to help others. We see what programs are 17 doing with Dietert, but I'm sure there are churches and other 18 folks in our community, a lot of people around us. 19 MS. VASQUEZ: I did talk with the A.P.S. person 20 before I came up here last week, and in Kerr County for 2010, 21 they had a total of 330 Adult Protective Services intakes, 22 and then they completed 258 investigations. Of those, 152 23 were validated, and so they had -- the actual clients that 24 received assistance in 2010 was 187. So, they're still 25 formulating their 2011 information, but I did get that from 9-12-11 73 1 her. Yeah, A.P.S. would be a good -- would have a good 2 handle on that. And, of course, Ms. Doerries, 'cause she 3 works in that particular field. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: On the issue of self-neglect, or -- 6 or deterioration generally, I think the Meals on Wheels 7 program is probably one of the best investigative arms that 8 we have available, because a lot of those single seniors that 9 are shut-ins, as it were, either because of their condition 10 or voluntarily, -- 11 MS. VASQUEZ: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- their real contact with the 13 outside world is that Meals on Wheels -- 14 MS. VASQUEZ: That's right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- driver that provides them that 16 meal, and oftentimes that's where the alert comes from. And, 17 fortunately, those people are -- they're not afraid to sound 18 the alarm, because that's in those seniors' best interests, 19 and they do a great job of it. We appreciate that, 20 Ms. Woods. 21 MS. VASQUEZ: And the beauty of that is that 22 they're volunteers, so they do it because it's from their 23 heart. And so I agree with you, there's a lot of compassion 24 in that staff. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 9-12-11 74 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Thank you, 2 ladies. We appreciate it. 3 MS. VASQUEZ: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 15-minute 5 recess. 6 (Recess taken from 10:36 a.m. to 10:51 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 9 we might. We're back in session. Let's go to Item 14, which 10 is a 10:15 item. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action 11 to clarify the responsibility to magistrate individuals who 12 are arrested by the City of Kerrville and matters in 13 connection therewith, including, but not limited to, 14 participation of city judges in magistration rotation and/or 15 compensation to the Justice of the Peace in lieu thereof. 16 Ms. Mitchell, Mr. -- Judges Mitchell and Billeiter, this item 17 was placed on the agenda at y'all's request. 18 JUDGE MITCHELL: Good morning. 19 JUDGE BILLEITER: Good morning. We thank you for 20 giving us the opportunity to address the Commissioners Court. 21 I'm a little uncomfortable with Rusty sitting right behind 22 me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE BILLEITER: If you'll please keep a watch on 25 him. 9-12-11 75 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. 2 JUDGE BILLEITER: You'll wait till I'm finished, 3 please. (Laughter.) We've had concerns about magistration 4 and the duties that have been assigned to us as J.P.'s. We 5 started this little -- I guess you'd call it fight in 2009, 6 and ever since then, we've been trying to get the City to 7 participate. Let me be perfectly clear here that I'm only 8 speaking for Judge Mitchell and myself. I'm not -- not 9 speaking for any other judges. Back in 2009, Judges 10 Billeiter, Mitchell, Ragsdale, and former Judge Wright 11 requested participation by the city judges in the 12 magistration process. We received a response back from them 13 in a letter -- or we made that request in a letter to Mayor 14 Bock. We received a negative response from City Manager Todd 15 Parton, and we have a letter from him. Our request was made 16 due to the large volume of city arrests, including violations 17 of city ordinances. 18 Some of the examples of city ordinances, we get a 19 lot of cases of illegal camping. Illegal camping is not 20 going to bring any revenue to anybody. Those are transients. 21 They can be cited and let go, because they're not going to 22 show up to pay their fine. We also had an ordinance of -- I 23 think it was a 17-year-old that shot a bird in a bird 24 sanctuary; was put in jail for that. We've had -- I've had 25 one person put in jail for running a red light. In one of 9-12-11 76 1 the recent County Commissioners meetings, it was stated -- 2 and I believe it was by Sheriff Hierholzer, and I may be 3 wrong, but I believe that he said that J.P.'s have been doing 4 magistration for the past 30 years. And I take that to mean, 5 in other words, we've always done it that way. Well, in the 6 past 30 years, a lot of things have changed. I was told that 7 years ago, a J.P. would often call to see if there was anyone 8 to magistrate. That's not the case any more. There's always 9 someone to magistrate. I personally have had as many as 23 10 in one morning. 11 The Sheriff -- and I just heard this talked about, 12 and he wants a new minimum security facility because of 13 overcrowding due to the increased criminal activity in Kerr 14 County. I think he referred to it as a critical situation. 15 I just want you to consider who is having to magistrate all 16 of these people. We believe there needs to be an interlocal 17 agreement between the City and the County whereby the city 18 judges would be required to participate, or that the J.P.'s 19 be compensated for magistrating city prisoners. The Sheriff 20 stated that the interlocal agreement with the City has 21 nothing to do with magistration. We disagree there a little 22 bit. I think it -- Kathy and I believe it has everything to 23 do with magistration, because he has stated that he does not 24 have custody of city prisoners until they are magistrated. 25 And we would ask to be included on any interlocal agreement 9-12-11 77 1 with the City, and ask that we be included in any discussion 2 or meeting that would require our services. As team players, 3 we would like to be included on the team. Just to give you 4 an idea of the load, Kathy has -- where is that? To give you 5 an idea of what had occurred in 2010, I'll let her explain 6 this to you. 7 JUDGE MITCHELL: 4,000. Approximately 4,000 in the 8 jail. Half of that, City of Kerrville. 9 JUDGE BILLEITER: So it's a large, large volume. 10 The City has asked if any other -- well, they sent us a list 11 of questions, which I believe you have all seen. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 JUDGE BILLEITER: We answered these questions in 14 2009. I think this is just a smokescreen to avoid making any 15 decisions on their part. They said that they would -- they 16 would try to relieve us of having to serve -- or having to 17 sign so many city warrants. I got a call Saturday -- because 18 I'm on call. I got a call Saturday afternoon from a city 19 officer that was requesting two warrants, Class C 20 misdemeanors for possession of drug paraphernalia. I asked 21 him, I said, "Did you call one of your city judges?" He 22 said, "No, because we have been told not to bother them after 23 hours, on weekends or holidays." And that makes us feel like 24 chopped liver. 25 The City has asked if any other entities are being 9-12-11 78 1 asked to cover magistration, and the answer is no. There's a 2 very good reason for that. I believe in the past year, I've 3 magistrated one or two prisoners for the city of Ingram. We 4 do a few for D.P.S. And, of course, the County receives a 5 portion of those fines. But the County receives nothing on 6 municipal warrants or on Class C arrests made by city 7 officers. This is a free service that we're providing for 8 the City. And, you know, the question that comes into my 9 mind is why are we providing all of these free services for 10 the City? I think we covered one this morning, the roads. 11 That is just something we're doing for them. It appeared to 12 me this year that they held us hostage on fire and EMS, and 13 I'm just wondering why we are supporting them and doing -- 14 providing them with all these free services. We come here 15 today asking for your support and backing. There are some 16 things that could be done to remedy the situation. One of 17 them would be pretty extreme, and that would be following the 18 statute and requiring that any city prisoner that is arrested 19 be brought before a magistrate and magistrated before they 20 are taken to the county jail, because Rusty does not have 21 custody until they are magistrated. That's one thing that 22 could be done. I believe -- yes? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that, to do that -- which I 24 like that option. What -- how does that -- we just basically 25 send a letter from the J.P.'s telling the K.P.D. that they're 9-12-11 79 1 going to have to find a magistrate before they can take them 2 to the jail? How do you -- how does that happen? 3 JUDGE MITCHELL: Commissioner, you have to 4 understand, though, that once the Sheriff -- once the jail 5 accepts them, whether it's an interlocal agreement or not an 6 interlocal agreement, he's going to have to take them to a 7 magistrate, and we are the ones that have been magistrating, 8 so he's going to bring them to us. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: So -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I'm saying -- I mean -- 12 JUDGE BILLEITER: Yes. Technically, if he was of 13 such a mind, he could say, "I'm not accepting any prisoners 14 until they've been magistrated." That -- the City would have 15 to take them before a magistrate before they could put them 16 into his custody. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, it's -- it's the 18 Sheriff that can make that call? 19 JUDGE BILLEITER: That could -- that could happen. 20 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes, he can. We have an Attorney 21 General's opinion here that states that. 22 JUDGE BILLEITER: Yeah, we do have an Attorney 23 General opinion. 24 JUDGE MITCHELL: That states that. We also have 25 the statute that states that it's the person making the 9-12-11 80 1 arrest or the person having custody of the person arrested 2 shall take the person arrested, or have him taken without 3 unnecessary delay, but not later than 48 hours after the 4 person is arrested, before the magistrate who may have 5 ordered the arrest. In other words, if the city judge 6 ordered that arrest, the Sheriff has the option of taking it 7 to that -- that judge. 8 JUDGE BILLEITER: Or the arresting officer. 9 JUDGE MITCHELL: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has that option? It's still 11 an option? 12 JUDGE MITCHELL: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE BILLEITER: We would just like for the County 14 Commissioners to support us in this, and to -- I don't know 15 if it can be a part of an interlocal agreement that we've 16 been talking about. Looks to me like it could be. If not, 17 maybe just an interlocal agreement between the J.P.'s and the 18 City. 19 JUDGE MITCHELL: Have you -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I interrupted you. I asked you 21 to go into that one. Was there a less extreme option? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 JUDGE BILLEITER: A less extreme option? No. I 24 think every option would be pretty extreme at this point. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 9-12-11 81 1 JUDGE BILLEITER: We're asking for participation, 2 or compensation to do their work. 3 JUDGE MITCHELL: Participation. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's essentially where we 5 are? 6 JUDGE BILLEITER: That's where we are. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: To propose to them an either/or; 8 that they either place their judges in a rotation to 9 magistrate all the prisoners on the regular rotation basis, 10 or two, that Kerr County receives some sort of compensation 11 for our officers on a -- our J.P.'s on an annual basis. 12 JUDGE MITCHELL: Correct. 13 JUDGE BILLEITER: Correct. And we figured that up. 14 Now, we figured only one hour for magistration, which is -- 15 JUDGE MITCHELL: It can vary. This morning, I -- I 16 went out and I was done within 30 minutes, which is very, 17 very unusual. But then it can go up to three and a half 18 hours. So, we did it on an average for an hour. And what we 19 came up with is if both judges participated, both city judges 20 instead of just one, you know, that's -- they get paid, you 21 know, $100 an hour. And you do it as an hour, 700, and then 22 if you break it up, 6 into 52 weeks, or -- 'cause we don't 23 get breaks for holidays; we're out there 365 days a year. 24 There's no breaks; we don't get a holiday, the one that's on 25 call. So, it averages out to approximately 12,000. That's 9-12-11 82 1 with both judges, but we were being nice and said okay, fine, 2 one judge. Comes out to about 8,000. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If half the cases where prisoners 4 are taken to jail are originating from city officers, why 5 would it not be appropriate for both judges? They're then 6 handling one-third of the load instead of one-half of the 7 load. 8 JUDGE MITCHELL: It would be, but right now we're 9 just asking -- like I said, I would prefer participation 10 instead of compensation, because our workload is so heavy 11 right now. Like the Sheriff has already said, everybody's 12 said that the crime is increased. Mental health issues have 13 increased in this community. We are up to two and three 14 times a night. And when people go to that hospital with a 15 mental issue, they don't keep normal hours from 8:00 to 5:00. 16 It's usually in the wee morning hours, and then we get up and 17 we go magistrate. Our plates are full. Our courts are 18 increased; everything is increased, just like everybody else, 19 every other department. But yet we haven't gotten any relief 20 for the magistration. 21 JUDGE BILLEITER: However, I would vote for your 22 recommendation, because I like that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it -- actually, that seems 24 like -- 25 JUDGE BILLEITER: That would be -- 9-12-11 83 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- even giving them the benefit of 2 the doubt. 3 JUDGE BILLEITER: That would be more fair. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: More than fair. 5 JUDGE BILLEITER: Yes. And that's about all. 6 JUDGE MITCHELL: That's all. 7 JUDGE BILLEITER: That was our presentation. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you figure -- 9 what were you saying? Fifty percent of them were city 10 arrests, and just -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: City -- being placed in by the city, 12 according to the numbers they brought to us. 13 JUDGE MITCHELL: That was from 2010, the full year. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you try to figure out 15 a way to charge them for that? Or would you try to figure 16 out a way to just charge them per city arrest? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that could be another option, 18 that you could just put a surcharge on any prisoner that -- 19 that they bring there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like we need to 21 offer them the opportunity to magistrate their own. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that. I 23 agree with that. That would be the first -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we don't have to worry 25 about who's doing what. You do your own, and we'll do the 9-12-11 84 1 rest. They'll do the rest. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the question I have is, 3 where's the communication from the County requesting that 4 come from? If it's -- if the Sheriff's the one who's kind of 5 in control of admitting them into jail, that's kind of, I 6 guess, leverage. The J.P.'s are independent elected 7 officials, and we handle the budget, so who's the one who 8 sends the letter? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I make a suggestion? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems to me this whole 12 thing, the thoughts and ideas are based on the law. 13 Therefore, a lawyer would be the one. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the County Attorney. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish I'd have thought of 16 that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It would seem to me that the 18 threshold question is, if you're talking about -- thinking 19 about issuing the City a requirement that henceforth, prior 20 to bringing any prisoners to the jail facility operated by 21 our Sheriff, that they be magistrated in advance of that, 22 that that ultimatum is actually the Sheriff's ultimatum. So, 23 I guess the question is, Sheriff, are you willing to -- 24 JUDGE BILLEITER: You can get up now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you willing to impose that 9-12-11 85 1 ultimatum? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me put it -- and it's 3 farther on down the agenda. You have the interlocal housing 4 agreement, okay? One thing is -- yes, about half the 5 arrests, as they say, are made by the City. But if that 6 arrest is under a warrant, that does not pertain. They have 7 the right to bring them to the county, period. 8 JUDGE BILLEITER: That's true. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Prior to magistration on 10 cause? 'Cause that's an order issued by a court -- by a 11 judge, all right. So, the ones that they're talking about 12 are the on-view arrests, and yes, I have seen arrests for 13 sanctuary hunting for ordinances. I have seen arrests for 14 being drunk on a skateboard in front of their house, okay? 15 I mean, some of it does get ridiculous; I don't disagree with 16 that. The -- the deal I have is twofold. And the J.P.'s 17 won't really appreciate it. I understand their plight, 18 especially when it comes to the mental health. I think that 19 should be shared, 'cause that is late at night, and that does 20 not have anything to do with inmate housing. The interlocal 21 agreement that is -- will be before you later is calling for 22 $45 a day for all city on-view arrests. That's any of these 23 without a warrant, whether it's a Class C misdemeanor, A/B 24 felony; it doesn't matter. Okay? They're going to pay $45 a 25 day. What that entails is prior to magistration. So, if 9-12-11 86 1 that inmate -- if that city arrest comes in at 1 o'clock in 2 the morning and he gets out at 8 o'clock in the morning after 3 magistration, the City still pays $45, okay? I think that 4 $45 covers the cost, especially if they have 10 inmates in 5 one night. You're talking a lot more than the 8,000 a year. 6 I think it -- I think it's covered in there. 7 The other issue is more of an ethical one on my 8 part. I am the chief law enforcement officer of the county, 9 county-wide, okay? It is my duty to enforce the laws 10 county-wide. If this really were to get ugly -- and I hope 11 it doesn't, but I don't like the way I've seen all summer 12 between the City and County argument, going with interlocal 13 agreements and everything else. All that has to happen is 14 the city officer not make the arrest and call the county 15 officers to make it. And we're going to make it, because we 16 are to enforce laws county-wide, and then it's a county 17 arrest, not a city arrest. Now, whether it's ethical for 18 them to do that or not -- I don't think it is, because it's a 19 municipality. But the Sheriff is the chief law enforcement 20 officer of the county. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you enforce an ordinance? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. City ordinances, no. But 23 there are probably, on actual city ordinances -- and this 24 is -- the figure, just looking at it, maybe 20, 30 a year 25 city ordinances. Most of them are state laws, but of the 9-12-11 87 1 Class C nature; running a stop sign, you know, things like 2 that. Some of the even fires or camping can fall under some 3 of the state laws, depending on where they are. I just think 4 you have an issue in there that -- that I've got to be 5 careful of. The other thing is, I don't have the manpower to 6 do it. I have five patrol officers on duty for 1,100 square 7 miles. I don't have the manpower to be working inside the 8 city that much. And if the city arrests an inmate and they 9 take them to the hospital, and that inmate's going to be at 10 the hospital, then those hospital bills are going to 11 accumulate. If they call a magistrate, or one of their own, 12 as soon as that magistration's done, okay, they are -- all 13 those city officers or anybody else involved with that inmate 14 at the hospital can walk out of that hospital, because at 15 that point he's my responsibility. He's not theirs any more. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you would be there to 17 protect him and -- and be there anyway, wouldn't you? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not if it's a city arrest. 19 If it's a city arrest, prior to him going to the jail and 20 they take him to the hospital, the kind of verbal -- you 21 know, just the agreement that's been in place forever is that 22 the city officers stay with him until he gets treated and 23 gets cleared, and then they bring him to the jail. Then he's 24 magistrated once he gets to the jail. The interlocal 25 agreement covers that cost. The issue we will have is if 9-12-11 88 1 they make an arrest and he gets injured during the arrest or 2 he was, you know, in a wreck or whatever, and they have to 3 take him to the hospital, first thing they do is have a 4 magistrate meet him over there, one of the city magistrates 5 or whatever. They magistrate him, walk out of the hospital. 6 We have to pull people off the street or wherever to go over 7 there and guard him, because now he's ours. And that hasn't 8 occurred ever in the past. The other thing is, look at the 9 definition of "magistrate." Some of y'all may like this one. 10 The mayor is a magistrate, okay? Every -- County Judge, 11 County Court at Law, District Judge, all of them are 12 magistrates. I think we need to take the high road, finally. 13 I think -- 14 JUDGE MITCHELL: Do you know what, Sheriff? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the problem between 16 the City and the County has gone far enough, and we need to 17 take the high road. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've done street work for them 19 free; we've done a lot of services free, and they have done 20 nothing. And we were getting along until fairly recently. 21 They have decided this year -- the City canceled all the 22 interlocal agreements. The City has taken -- has -- is the 23 cause of everything. They're the ones that recently, on the 24 airport, said they don't want any interlocal agreement. The 25 County has taken the high road. We have all year. The City 9-12-11 89 1 has not. So, we have to look at this. And I think if 2 they're -- you know, if they're not willing to work with us, 3 we have no option. They are costing the taxpayers in our 4 budget a lot of money -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we can't afford. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't disagree with you, 8 Jonathan, on any of those. Maybe it's time the City and 9 County splits sheets on everything. And -- you know, I don't 10 know, but I've got a job to do, period. County-wide, okay? 11 And I've got to be able to have the resources to be able to 12 do my job -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it is not fair -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- without taxing on my 15 employees more than what is already taxed on the five that we 16 have on the street. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It still is not fair for our 18 J.P.'s to magistrate all the cases. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't disagree with that. 20 Where I -- where I have a disagreement is, every employee in 21 this county does a lot of daily work for city residents. 22 About 80 percent of the business done inside this courthouse 23 is going back to a city resident. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 60 percent. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's a little more, 9-12-11 90 1 but -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I read the numbers; it's 60. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But out of all the 4 arrests, like they're putting that are city arrests, city 5 ordinances, city -- you know, whatever that's in that jail, 6 okay? If there is compensation and if there is -- I think it 7 should go to the general fund. They're going to disagree and 8 holler. 9 JUDGE MITCHELL: No, it's going to the general 10 fund. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because every jailer, every 12 employee in this courthouse does work, and if it individually 13 goes to persons for doing that, I think we're on a deal we 14 don't want to get into. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not going to be an issue. It 16 will go in the general fund. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If the Court wants to 18 compensate, the Court does it through the salaries and 19 everything else. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Should I -- or do I think it 22 would be fair if the City does it? Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it the right thing to do? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9-12-11 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: End of issue. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, we never did get an 4 answer. 5 JUDGE BILLEITER: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's the position the Court 7 wants you to take, will you do that? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The position being what? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That you notify the City that until 10 they have magistrated their arrestees, don't bring them to 11 your jail. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me -- can I add something 13 to that? Or charge them a higher rate. Charge them an extra 14 $10 if they want us to continue to magistrate them. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The old interlocal agreement 16 was 35. We went to 37. Now we're going to 45. We're 17 charging them a higher rate. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know we're charging them a 19 higher rate, but what are we charging other counties? 45? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Other counties? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, to use our jail. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, some of them 40, 45. 23 We're not doing any any more. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know, but the 25 agreements are basically around 45. What I'm saying is the 9-12-11 92 1 City should pay the same as everybody else pays. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 45. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying charge an additional 4 amount if they want us to do the magistration. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The amount is only prior to 6 magistration to begin with. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a way for them to do 8 both things. Come -- pay us for doing the magistration. If 9 they don't want to pay that extra $10, they can go find their 10 judge to do it. It's their control, then, as to who's doing 11 the magistration, what they're paying. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The City of Austin still has 13 the city jail, and when they've been magistrated, they 14 transfer them to Travis County, because when they're 15 magistrated they are legally, by statute, the responsibility 16 of the Sheriff. I can't tell this Court what to do, all 17 right? I'm going to enforce the laws, and my department's 18 going to enforce the laws as the statute requires us to. And 19 if it ends up being making arrests inside the city of 20 Kerrville that I have to do, then, of course, we're going to 21 do that. I've got to -- to do our duties just like y'all all 22 have to do yours. Now, do I think the City should do what's 23 fair and assist in that? Yes. But I can't back off on what 24 my duties are for law enforcement. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a compromise, kind of 9-12-11 93 1 an either/or. This is one way it can be done. The other way 2 is, they put both those judges on a rotation magistrating at 3 the jail. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, sure. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the -- that would be -- 6 and after all the years -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A specific six-person 8 rotation. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A six-person rotation, and 10 spread the work out. And if that's not fair, then I guess we 11 have to do something drastic. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That should have been done 13 years ago. It does not necessarily -- and the issue y'all 14 have and that I feel for the J.P.'s for, it doesn't 15 necessarily force them into the rotation with the mental 16 health and -- and just the -- the deal of being on call. 17 They're on call for everything, you know, each J.P., during 18 that week of on-call. All right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think that the -- I 20 think the city judges ought to be on a rotation with them on 21 magistration. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, and that supports eight 23 weeks out of the year -- eight and a half weeks. That's a 24 fair -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And on that, I will tell you, 9-12-11 94 1 during one of our meetings that we had with the city judge 2 last year in trying to resolve that, and with -- with our 3 lieutenant, with our captain, with the P.D. and my people 4 trying to get all this worked out -- and this may give you 5 more fuel for your fire, but the comment that was made by the 6 person in charge of his court is the reason they don't is 7 they don't have the budget to do it. And neither does the 8 County, so y'all figure that one out. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think that's a 10 correct statement. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I don't recall that I ever 12 got an answer from you. (Laughter.) 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I can't give you one. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't or won't? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I won't. I think, ethically, 16 I've got to enforce the laws of the state of Texas and Kerr 17 County regardless of where they happen. And if the City of 18 Kerrville came to my door with somebody that just killed a 19 police officer, killed a citizen, killed anybody else, 20 injured a child, and I'm telling them I'm not accepting them, 21 okay, in the county jail, I think we get into it. City 22 ordinances? Sure. You know, that's fine. That's their 23 issue. But I think that the laws -- it's -- I just -- I 24 don't think that I can tell somebody that I'm not going to -- 25 flat will not accept prisoners prior to their seeing a judge. 9-12-11 95 1 I think that prisoner can be a danger. I think that prisoner 2 could hurt somebody while you're waiting to get them to see a 3 judge. I would rather that issue get worked out, and not 4 turn into a bad issue, that it puts me in a bad spot. It 5 puts officers on the street in a bad spot. Okay, if you get 6 an officer that arrests a DWI, you know, 2 o'clock in the 7 morning, or an assault, what are we going to do? That 8 officer is now going to go sit with him in a patrol car and 9 take that risk and that danger because we won't accept him 10 where he belongs? Don't ask me that question, Judge. I 11 can't answer it. 12 MS. UECKER: Based on the fact that it's either a 13 Class C -- 14 JUDGE MITCHELL: Can't. 15 MS. UECKER: -- or misdemeanor. 16 JUDGE MITCHELL: We're talking about Class C's and 17 municipal ordinances. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no, we're talking about all 20 the rest. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're talking about all the 22 rest, 'cause the interlocal agreement is A/B's, felonies, all 23 of them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does -- let me ask the question 25 to the J.P.'s, either one of the two. Can you not just 9-12-11 96 1 refuse to magistrate? 2 JUDGE BILLEITER: Absolutely. That is the other 3 extreme. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't y'all just do that? 5 JUDGE BILLEITER: Well, we can just refuse to go. 6 It's not our statutory duty. It is the responsibility of the 7 arresting officer or the person with custody to bring them 8 before a magistrate, according to statute. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And especially on ordinances, 10 city ordinances, I don't -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Once they're in the jail, the 12 Sheriff is required within 48 hours, by law, to have that 13 person before a judge. So, if that happens, then you better 14 get ready. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What if they didn't -- just 16 don't show up? A city judge -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Doesn't matter. I'm required. 18 The city judge is not required to show up; I'm required to 19 take that inmate. I'm going to be hauling these inmates 20 everywhere to find these judges, okay? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe you -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to tax more on the 23 personnel and the manpower that we have. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take all of them before the 25 mayor. (Laughter.) Maybe the problem will be solved. I'll 9-12-11 97 1 give you his home address. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, I'm not -- I'm not 3 disagreeing with you, Jonathan. I think -- I think it's -- I 4 think it's almost to the point of being idiotic that the City 5 doesn't participate in that rotation, okay? I don't think 6 it's right. I don't think it's fair, all right? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For everybody. I do -- I've 9 seen this ever since I was here when the City closed down the 10 city jail and they started being housed with the county, and 11 the first interlocal, okay. And back then, you know, our 12 inmate population was five inmates. I mean, it wasn't a big 13 deal then. As Judge Billeiter and them said, now we're 14 booking into that jail -- it's probably going to top 5,000 15 this year. About half of those are city arrests, half are 16 county, but you have to take out a lot of the warrants, 17 because it can be a city burglary, but once there's a warrant 18 issued, now it's county, okay? So that doesn't count in what 19 they're required to do. It's all -- it primarily is the 20 Class C's and -- and that that it does, or the family 21 violences, the DWI's, the misdemeanor-type offenses. So, I 22 agree that -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question -- I mean, 24 for three years now we've been talking about this, and the 25 City said no, and we keep on doing it. How do we get off 9-12-11 98 1 high center on this? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You -- I think the -- about 3 the only way is -- unfortunately, it's kind of like what the 4 City's been doing, except it's in reverse. You signed -- I 5 think this new interlocal is two years? 6 MR. HENNEKE: Well, it's -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 2013. Two years, three years. 8 When we get through the interlocal, because that's an 9 immediate, and I don't think it's fair to anybody, and then 10 if you're of the mind after that, give them enough notice 11 that they can open up their own city jail for temporary 12 housing, provide magistration, and then they've got to do a 13 lot of things like I do; meet jail standards, meet building 14 requirements, meet codes, everything else. And then, to me, 15 that's when -- you know, that's when relationships have 16 really hurt. And I've already heard a lot of businesses and 17 a lot of people talking, that that's why they're not moving 18 here, because of the squabbles between the City and County. 19 People don't want my opinion as to whose fault it is. It's a 20 shame it happened when the new mayor took office, but that's 21 about as far as I'll go with that. But it's going downhill, 22 and it's affecting every citizen in this county. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you know, you've said the 24 fair and the right thing to do would be for them -- the city 25 judges to participate, or that there be some surcharge 9-12-11 99 1 placed, something to offset that. In that regard, assuming 2 the City wants to do the fair and the right thing, why 3 wouldn't it be possible for you and Chief Young to sit down 4 and say, "Let's figure out what the fair and right thing to 5 do is." And once we determine that, we can recommend it to 6 our respective governing bodies, and that ought to be the end 7 of it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Chief Young and I have done 9 exactly that. We started -- that process started in April. 10 It's been done. Y'all have your -- one of your next agenda 11 items is exactly what Chief Young and I -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It doesn't address that issue, 13 though, Sheriff. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it addresses all the 15 issues prior to magistration, okay? What it says is they're 16 going to pay $45 a day for that inmate coming into that jail 17 prior to magistration. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's talk about the 19 magistration. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That comes out of Chief 21 Young's budget, okay? And goes into the -- to the general 22 fund of this county. That's what his officers and what the 23 police department is paying, and their budgeted amount to 24 house those people prior to magistration. Now, after that is 25 done -- and what I've said to y'all before is I've got -- 9-12-11 100 1 that's the housing contract, okay? I can't dictate to a city 2 judge or a J.P. or this Court on what I think is fair. I can 3 say what I think is fair, which is what I just did, all 4 right. I think they ought to rotate in it, too. But I can't 5 dictate that. But to me, after the housing is -- the housing 6 agreement to bring them, then the rest of it does come up 7 between the judges, the City Council, and this Court. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, I guess my problem 9 is -- part of the problem, and it's maybe a small piece of 10 it; we're getting ready to spend half a million dollars on a 11 new jail. Part of that is -- goes back to this same problem. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City is costing the 14 taxpayers of the county, which includes the city residents, 15 money by not helping with this process. You have an 16 agreement with Chief Young. You know, we'll get to it on the 17 next agenda item on the interlocal agreement. I go back 18 to -- we've been talking about this for three years. Nothing 19 has come out of it yet. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, Jonathan, the one 21 thing -- and I think we all have to -- to look at back in 22 April, whenever it was, and I've referred to this before -- I 23 wish I brought me a copy of it. I sat down and wrote an 24 editorial on how I think divisions -- 'cause city residents 25 do pay county taxes, and what those -- that portion of that 9-12-11 101 1 city residents' tax that they're paying to the county goes 2 for. A lot of it goes, as Buster said -- I think it's more 3 than that, but 60 percent of this courthouse is done for the 4 benefit of city residents. That county jail, okay, is also 5 part of the benefit of city residents. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But not -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We pay the county taxes 8 portion too. And I agree, and I think it's wrong. I've 9 heard that, you know, cities or, you know, schools, and -- 10 and training that teaches them that if you're having 11 financial problems in the city, put it all off on your 12 counties and make your counties start paying for it, because 13 city residents pay county taxes. So -- you know, and I think 14 when you get cities that are financially strapped and in 15 debt, that's exactly what's happening. And from what I've 16 seen, that's what's happening to y'all. But I've still got a 17 job to do too. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess we'll talk about this 19 in three years again. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we may talk about it here in 21 just a minute. Any more on that item, gentlemen? Let's go 22 to our 10:20 item. How's that? Item 15; to consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action on the request from the 24 Kerrville Triathlon Festival Coordinator on the closure of 25 Sutherland lane for scheduled event time of 7 a.m. to 2 p.m. 9-12-11 102 1 Sunday, October the 2nd. Presentation of local athletic 2 events will be made by coordinator Dan Carroll. 3 MR. CARROLL: Good morning. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 5 MR. CARROLL: Thanks for having me here. So, I was 6 invited by Commissioner Overby just to give a brief 7 presentation of exactly what the event is, how it's 8 benefiting the city and the county, and then the cooperation 9 that we're asking for to help pull the events off. So, 10 briefly, we're putting a triathlon festival that consists of 11 three different triathlon races that will take place over two 12 days; Saturday, October 1st, and Sunday, October 2nd. We'll 13 have participants coming in from all over the state. 14 Actually, quite a few from all over the country; a few from 15 Mexico as well. The first year, we're expecting about 800 to 16 1,000 people. We currently have -- as of this morning, have 17 572 registered. So far, only 6 percent of those are actual 18 Kerrville or Kerr County residents. I'm including 19 Fredericksburg in there as -- as kind of the Kerrville area, 20 Hunt, Ingram, and Bandera. So, the majority of these people 21 are traveling here, spending at least one night, most of them 22 two or three nights in a hotel, bringing family members, and 23 -- and making a vacation out of the trip here. 24 The triathlon events will take place in the 25 mornings. Saturday is a very brief event, and the partial 9-12-11 103 1 closure of roads are -- are restricted within the city 2 limits. I think I've distributed the maps to y'all. On 3 Sunday, we have two longer distance events, the longest of 4 which is what's known as a Half Ironman distance. You may 5 have heard of the Ironman on TV in Hawaii. We're hosting an 6 event here that's roughly half that distance. And the bike 7 -- bicycling portion of the event does stretch out into Kerr 8 County towards the town of Center Point along Junction 9 Highway, 27, and comes back along Center Point River Road and 10 State Highway 173 before it gets back inside the city limits. 11 To get the correct distance, we have to do a little outback 12 section on Sutherland Lane. And what we're requesting is 13 that that road be closed to all through traffic during that 14 time, because we'll have bicycles going two directions on a 15 very narrow road. And there are adequate detours available. 16 Obviously, they require a little bit more time to reach your 17 destination, but I think we can service any of the addresses 18 on that road, and I plan to visit them today and tomorrow 19 just to confirm their operations on Sunday -- I believe their 20 -- the gravel pits there are closed on Sunday morning. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no residents on that 22 road. 23 MR. CARROLL: As far as I know, there's none, yes. 24 Yeah. So, it's just the two gravel pits, and as far as I 25 know, they're both closed on Sunday. But I'm going to go by 9-12-11 104 1 and confirm that. So, I don't think we'll be interrupting 2 anyone that has an address on that road. And we're just 3 requesting that the roads be closed to through traffic during 4 that time. I've been working with K.P.D. as well as Kerr 5 County Sheriff and D.P.S., and they'll be coordinating all 6 the law enforcement on the course. Texas Department of 7 Transportation has approved our traffic control plan, or is 8 in the process of approving that. And I will hire a 9 barricade company that will place all the necessary signs, 10 barricades, cones like that along the course. So, there's -- 11 there's very little burden in terms of what we're asking the 12 City or the County to provide for us, 'cause I expect to pay 13 for all those services, but I do need your permission to 14 close the road. And I think this is going to be a fantastic 15 event long term for the county. Our track record in other 16 cities, it takes about three years to really -- for the event 17 to reach its full potential. And I don't think -- as long as 18 everything goes smoothly, we should be looking at 1,500 or 19 more participants in years three or four of this event, which 20 I think will be a very, very positive experience for the city 21 of Kerrville, and bring a lot of people in to showcase what 22 we have here in the county. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very good. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Make a motion to close 9-12-11 105 1 Sutherland Lane from 7:00 to 2:00 on Sunday, October 2nd. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Further question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Carroll, would you be 6 willing to be a guinea pig and let us put you in jail and see 7 how this new magistration thing works? (Laughter.) 8 MR. CARROLL: Actually -- yeah, actually, the 9 Sheriff -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all have already talked 11 about that? 12 MR. CARROLL: He was very instrumental in coming up 13 with our course. So, I went through several iterations, some 14 all the way up into Gillespie County, and the Sheriff was 15 most helpful, I think calling on some of his -- he's a very 16 avid cyclist, so he helped us design the routes with coming 17 up with the best way to showcase some of what we have here to 18 show off, but also try to not disrupt operations and driving 19 for everyone that's not participating in the event. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Carroll, you said the Sheriff 21 was an avid cyclist? 22 MR. CARROLL: I've been led to believe that, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, maybe we can save some 24 on gasoline and vehicles. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Used a bicycle a few years 9-12-11 106 1 ago. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Go green. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Went from that to a Smart 4 Car. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've retired, Judge, as an 6 avid cyclist. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 8 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 9 hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 MR. CARROLL: All right, thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, sir. 15 MR. CARROLL: All right. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to Item 7; consider, 17 discuss, take appropriate action to review Kerr County policy 18 for non-county maintained impassable roads, and receive 19 opinion from the County Attorney. Commissioner Baldwin? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, thank you. In all my 21 years of serving in this capacity, one thing that I have a 22 fear of, and that is the County doing public work on private 23 property. And I mean that. I mean, that is -- that has 24 always frightened me. I remember when I first took office, I 25 met this neat county commissioner down in South Texas. He 9-12-11 107 1 ended up in prison for doing a bunch of work in the oil 2 fields. But this thing here is -- it's a county policy, and 3 I think you guys have got a copy of the policy in there, and 4 it simply states that if -- if the private road is -- excuse 5 me, if the private road becomes impassable, or someone thinks 6 it is, you notify the Sheriff. The Sheriff goes out and 7 drives down the road and determines whether it's impassable 8 for a fire truck or an ambulance or emergency services to get 9 down there. Then they can call Road and Bridge Department. 10 Road and Bridge Department will go there and fix that part of 11 the road that's deemed impassable. And the magic words in 12 that thing is under Number 4, "on a one-time basis only." 13 Now, I think that -- and this has happened on several roads 14 in the county, I understand, that Road and Bridge goes out 15 there, and -- and I know Leonard -- and I do; he went above 16 and beyond the call of duty, and probably really did some 17 repair work on the road so it was not only drivable, but very 18 -- you know, very safe. But it says one time only. 19 There's one particular road in our county that just 20 continually keeps calling. And I don't know how many -- how 21 many times Road and Bridge has been on that particular road; 22 I have no idea, but I know they've been out there once at 23 least. And -- and part of it has become impassable, I think. 24 I mean, it is a horrible road. And we have done our one-time 25 correction of the situation, and -- and the citizens out 9-12-11 108 1 there, they'll -- they will call me and they'll call Road and 2 Bridge and they'll call Rusty, and -- and it just goes on and 3 on and on. And last week I wrote a gentleman a letter, and 4 the gentleman's been here a long time and knows all about 5 this stuff. I wrote him a letter, and I said, you know, the 6 paperwork that I have -- the county policy that I have says 7 that we've used up our one-time thing. And he writes back 8 and says, well, I'm aware of the paperwork, but it wouldn't 9 take much to fix this. And this -- it just goes on and on 10 and on and on and on. I don't know. We need -- we need to 11 fix this thing. We need to -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Fix the policy, or fix the road? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fix the policy, not the 14 road. Because then -- if y'all want to go out on private 15 property and do work, that's your business. We don't want to 16 do that in Precinct 1. So, I'm not sure how to do that. 17 Because it's not like they don't understand that this is out 18 there. It's like they need help, and they're -- they're not 19 interested in what our policies are; they're interested in 20 them getting help. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess the question I have 22 is -- and I think I may know the answer, but the last time we 23 did it for one time when we went out there, we got it fixed 24 up, and the intent is that then they will keep it maintained. 25 And I presume they did not do their part. 9-12-11 109 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. That is 2 correct. They're responsible. It's their property. The 3 particular road that I'm talking about is a county road, but 4 not -- it's non-maintained. It's on that list. And, County 5 Attorney, would you make a comment on that? I mean, do you 6 have any idea if there's anything that we can tighten up in 7 this policy to make -- I mean, it's clear as mud, far as I'm 8 concerned. But -- 9 MR. HENNEKE: Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- what can we do? 11 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin, the first thing 12 we could do is we could encourage the affected individuals to 13 come petition the Court for a road district. I understand 14 that there was one done -- where was that done? 15 MS. HOFER: Ingram Lake. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Lake Ingram? 17 MR. HENNEKE: That was very successful. And that 18 creates a -- a taxing entity specific to that area that, you 19 know, provides a funding mechanism to keep and maintain the 20 -- the road segment for the individuals that utilize that 21 road when that road is not a county-maintained public road. 22 And it's been used in other situations, and I understand that 23 it's been very successful. Certainly, that's an option for 24 the residents here that we're discussing to come, you know, 25 ask the Court to do that. It requires Commissioners Court 9-12-11 110 1 action, but it requires action after you receive a petition 2 from the affected landowners. And you draw the district 3 specific to the affected area, so it wouldn't be imposing 4 something upon individuals that aren't served by that road or 5 outside of the district, or you're not taxing somebody in 6 Center Point for maintenance of a specific road district in 7 Hunt. So, it's very specific to that. Certainly, that would 8 provide a perpetual funding mechanism for them to have that 9 road maintained and up-kept. If the residents of that area, 10 or any area, are not interested in that option for taking 11 care of -- of their roads, certainly, they can fix it 12 themselves independently. 13 Now, insofar as the policy, you know, I -- it's not 14 a County-maintained road. The Court could -- you know, the 15 Court does not have an obligation to, you know, maintain 16 roads that aren't subject to the maintenance schedule, and 17 could take out that one exception. But, you know, I will say 18 that I think it is a legal expenditure of taxpayer -- I think 19 that this policy as it exists is legal, insofar that the 20 County has the discretion, in spending funds for the public 21 welfare, to make, you know, a road accessible to emergency 22 services. So, to be very clear, that when we're doing this, 23 I think we're doing it legitimately, and it's a policy -- or 24 doing it pursuant to the law, and I guess it's a policy 25 decision for the Court as to whether the Court wants to make, 9-12-11 111 1 you know, this a zero-exception policy, which it could do so, 2 keep it as one, or make it two, make it three, or make it any 3 time you want to make an exception, we can do so. That's -- 4 you know, I guess that's a question for you gentlemen as far 5 as a policy matter. But there are other options available. 6 Does that help to answer your question? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it does. The road 8 district issue, I know of seven or eight times that the Road 9 and Bridge Department has mailed out the guidelines of a road 10 district out to those folks. And what -- what happens out 11 there is one -- one person will call in and complain about 12 it, and then they find -- you know, we either convince them 13 that it ain't going to happen, or they realize it; I guess 14 they sell out. Then the next person comes in and it starts 15 all over again. It just never ends. It's a dadgum shame. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not interested in a 18 road district, obviously. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I've worked a lot with 20 a road district, and it failed last -- one in my precinct 21 failed last year. Road districts, can they be formed -- 22 well, let me go back a step. The problem with road districts 23 is the cost to get the road to county standards so we'll pick 24 it up is -- on some of these roads we're talking about is 25 huge. Because, I mean, the roads are just in terrible shape, 9-12-11 112 1 and up hills and along ledges and everything else; maybe even 2 the grades aren't right. So, the cost is -- is very large to 3 get some of these roads we're talking about into our county 4 system. Can a road district be formed if the road is not 5 going to be brought into the county system? Which would be a 6 much lower standard. 7 MR. HENNEKE: I -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of one time -- I mean, one 9 time, really work on a road. They'd still have to vote for 10 it to levy the tax, but the road is never intended to be 11 brought into the system. 12 MR. HENNEKE: I will -- I will do further research 13 and get back with you, but I believe we addressed this issue 14 last year, that there was a segment -- I think, Commissioner 15 Oehler, it was in your precinct. Originally, we were talking 16 about the cost necessary to bring it up to county -- current 17 county standards, at which time it would be incorporated 18 within the county, and that was very expensive. But the 19 other option that we were discussing -- and I don't believe 20 the residents pursued either at the end of the day, but the 21 other option that, my recollection, was on the table would be 22 to generate money to fix it, to keep it up, without bringing 23 it up to the current road standards. And -- and my 24 recollection was that that was a -- a valid option for use of 25 the funds that would be generated by the district moneys. 9-12-11 113 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they can essentially -- and 2 this may work for that area you're talking about, Buster, 3 too. So, if they were to be able to raise 10,000 a year for 4 some money just to go in and blade it off, that would just be 5 a perpetual -- I mean, go on forever. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Goes on till you pay the 7 bonds back. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's bonds -- I guess 9 I'm -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You specify the amount of 11 bond that you sell to bring a road up, and then once that 12 bond is paid back, it's over. Unless you want to start over 13 again, I believe. The way I remember, it's just really kind 14 of a -- kind of a stopgap measure, but it will -- you don't 15 have to have a 20-foot-wide paved surface. I mean, they 16 could go with a 12-foot paved surface and do -- they don't 17 have to do all the engineering and drainage and all of those 18 kind of things that run the price way up on maintaining a 19 private road. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, then, does it come 21 in -- it doesn't come into the county -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it does not. It will not 23 be to specs. That's the way it was proposed to me, and this 24 is not something that's been on the books a long time. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm interested, if you'd give 9-12-11 114 1 us a little more guidance on that, because I have one area 2 that I think they probably would like to pursue this, the 3 same -- the area in Castle Lakes that the road district 4 failed last year. They're -- I mean, they haven't quit 5 calling me. They still call me pretty regular, and they're 6 looking at new options. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, there's a lot 8 of things -- you know, bringing some roads up, they don't 9 have to be very long, in the county system, you're looking at 10 300, half a million dollars. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they just can't afford it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You could probably get by 13 with probably 60,000, 70,000, 100,000 to make it a really 14 good road that could be easily maintained for a lot of years. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. HENNEKE: I will -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did y'all -- you folks want 18 to say anything? From the Road and Bridge Department? Okay. 19 All right, thank you. Nice chatting with you. (Laughter.) 20 Well, okay. We'll leave it right there. And if y'all have a 21 wild hair to change from it a one-time basis only to a 22 two-time basis only, please let me know. And I'll vote no. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Glad we got that settled. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's go on to Item 10. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I feel better. 9-12-11 115 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate 2 action to approve updated broker/dealer list for Kerr County 3 Investment Policy in accordance with Public Funds Investment 4 Act. Ms. Hargis? 5 MS. HARGIS: It was brought to my attention that 6 some of the brokers that we had on our list had changed their 7 names of their banks, and so, really, all we're doing with 8 this is making sure that everyone we deal with is on the 9 list, and then making the legal name changes on the list. 10 So, that's -- that's all there is to this. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 14 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 20 Item 11; to on consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 21 authorize Kerr County Maintenance Supervisor to go out for 22 bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest control 23 services. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9-12-11 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 12; 8 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on request to 9 approve a reduction in jury reimbursement fee as follows: 10 First day reported, $10, which is no change. First day 11 reported and selected, $20, which is a $10 reduction from the 12 current plan. And second and each additional day, $30, which 13 is a $10 reduction from the current plan, the rationale being 14 changes being necessary due to Senate Bill 1, the 15 appropriations bill passed by the Legislature of the State of 16 Texas. 17 MS. UECKER: Which meets 80 days every two years. 18 Personally, I think they ought to meet two days every 80 19 years. (Laughter.) But they -- in the last session, they 20 required that jurors who report for that second day get the 21 $40, but then they also said that we're going to reimburse 22 the counties $34. Of course, they've run out of money, and I 23 think we're still waiting on a couple of those checks. So, 24 now they have removed the requirement in that Senate Bill 1 25 that you pay the $40 for the second day, and that the General 9-12-11 117 1 Appropriations office or the Comptroller's office determined 2 what the reimbursement would be, and for the first quarter, 3 they've decided that it's going to be $28. I mean, after 4 that, it may be $8. Who knows? But in order to -- of 5 course, all of that puts a heavier burden on the County's 6 budget. 7 So, I've talked to the judges and talked to the 8 Auditor, and the judges agree that maybe we need to reduce 9 our reimbursement since that $40 requirement is not there any 10 more. I really don't -- you know, I'm not asking the Court 11 to reduce the initial report reimbursement. It was at 6; we 12 had raised it to 10. I'd like that to stay 10. But of that 13 $30 that we were paying, that's mostly for, like, J.P. 14 courts, where they can come in, and a lot of County Court at 15 Law trials where the trial -- they come in, they're selected, 16 and the trial ends that day, and we can pay those $30 -- I 17 mean 20 instead of 30. And then reduce the other -- the 40 18 to 30 for that second and each day thereafter, which will 19 maybe save us some money. I don't know how much. We may 20 have to look at it again at the end of the quarter. Some of 21 the counties are going to change it every time the state 22 appropriation changes it, and I don't think that's fair, 23 because a jury this month may get, you know, $30, and next 24 month they may serve 10 days and get, you know, $10. I don't 25 think that's fair to the -- the jurors. So -- 9-12-11 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless we got professional jurors, 2 they probably don't know, do they? 3 MS. UECKER: Really. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you're saying is 5 last session, they encouraged us to increase our jurors' 6 compensation rates by virtue of agreeing to reimburse us a 7 goodly portion of that. 8 MS. UECKER: Yeah, $34. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And this year, they decided they 10 needed the money for some other reason, so they jerked the 11 rug out from under us on the reimbursement. 12 MS. UECKER: Exactly. And, you know, this is not 13 the only place they've done that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure it isn't. 15 MS. UECKER: Reading in another bill, they have 16 totally repealed the portion of some of the fees where the 17 County retains 10 percent. They've repealed that portion of 18 the act. So, you know, there's going to be less and less 19 money that stays with the county. But that's what I'm asking 20 on the jury reimbursement. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the agenda 22 item as presented. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 25 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 9-12-11 119 1 hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to Item 6 16; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept 7 an invitation from the Kerr County Historical Commission to 8 meet with them on November the 14th, 2011. Commissioner 9 Baldwin. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. As per the -- the 11 notice that we got from them, they're inviting us to lunch 12 like they did last year. You remember that out at Schreiner, 13 and they -- they brought sandwiches and cookies last year. 14 And they want to know if we would like to do that again. 15 They have another suggestion here of maybe going to lunch at 16 an inexpensive buffet in town. Those words don't even make 17 sense to me, but -- so, are you guys open on November 14th? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a Commissioners Court 19 meeting that day. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. That's -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Lunch following -- or get 22 together following that day? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we did last 24 year. We did it on the same day, so we'd all be in; wouldn't 25 have to come in. 9-12-11 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- that's fine with me on 2 the date, but I would much prefer like we did last year where 3 we meet -- I mean, if you go to a restaurant, it'll just be 4 noisy. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, no, no. I've already 6 X'd that part out. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You're talking about -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No such thing as an 9 inexpensive buffet, anyway. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you don't eat there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, y'all are game to go 13 out to Schreiner and eat sandwiches and listen to the -- the 14 annual report? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't wait. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty excited about it? 17 Palms sweaty? Jody, can we respond to them -- 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: I will. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to that effect? Thank 20 y'all very much for your time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We need any formal action on that? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: May have to remind us later. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's go to Item 17; to 9-12-11 121 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to determine 2 participation in the Hog Out County Grant program -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is my favorite one. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- sponsored by Texas Department of 5 Agriculture. I put this on the agenda. I couldn't believe 6 what they've named that program. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know it. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Oh, yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hog Out. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It has to do with getting rid of 11 these feral hogs. I figured "Shoot Them on Sight" program -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- would be better than "Hog Out." 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we ought to initiate 15 furnishing bullets. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that'll do it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I notice Mr. Kennedy's with us. We 18 have a helicopter available that we can wipe a few out? 19 Somebody told me it's now legal to shoot them out of an 20 airplane. I said I thought it always was. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, it seems -- I mean, I'm 22 in favor of doing this, but it doesn't -- it's kind of vague 23 as to what we're doing. I would presume we could send a 24 notice of intent to participate, and then decline if -- if we 25 don't choose to. 9-12-11 122 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have to do matching funds? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any kind of matching -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Half a million dollars? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to approve 5 the notice of intent to participate, authorize the County 6 Judge to sign same, in the Hog Out program. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, second that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 9 or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only thing I want to 11 point out is the deadline for submission is September 30th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's notice of intent to 13 participate. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Further question or 16 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to 22 Item 18; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 23 solicit resumés or expressions of interest from individuals 24 desiring to be appointed Kerr County Treasurer until the next 25 general election. That doesn't mean that the deadline for 9-12-11 123 1 submission is until the next general election. I put this on 2 the agenda because our Treasurer has given notice that she 3 intends to step down and retire as of the 30th day of this 4 month, beginning the new fiscal year on October 1. It'd be 5 helpful at that time, or shortly thereafter, of course, to 6 have a Treasurer in place, and so I think we need to solicit 7 resumés or expressions of interest from anyone desiring to be 8 appointed to that post. But I think we need to establish a 9 deadline when those can be submitted. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And so that we're in a position to 12 make that appointment. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say they ought to be 14 by the first meeting in October. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd almost say before that. I 17 mean, I think this has been discussed for some time. I think 18 if we do it by the 30th of this month, and then we can make 19 the selection the first meeting -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was getting at. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That'd be good. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 30th of this month, the 23 deadline for resumés or signs of interest, whatever it is. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And hopefully make a decision 25 the first meeting of October. 9-12-11 124 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the close of business 5 on the 30th for expressions of interest or deadlines -- or 6 resumés. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is the date of the first 9 meeting in October? 10 THE CLERK: October 10th. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: October 10th. So, that would 12 be 10 days prior to this. Maybe we could extend the deadline 13 until Friday -- well, no, that's okay. Ten days is okay to 14 have them -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I believe the -- the 16 Treasurer has given ample notice of this, that this is 17 coming, so I think people that are -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we should leave 19 it vacant very long. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't either. October 21 10th is Thanksgiving day in Canada, guys. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are going to have to 24 get you a book like mine. You're just breaking all kinds of 25 rules here. 9-12-11 125 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does it have Texas 2 Independence Day in there? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would it? This is -- 4 that's not a holiday, is it? Columbus Day and all that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen, I think on this 6 particular item, in setting that deadline, it would be 7 appropriate to have a court order, so that would make it 8 appropriate for a motion for those individuals desiring to 9 solicit -- submit resumés or expressions of interest for 10 appointment as Kerr County Treasurer, do so on or before 11 close of business -- 5 p.m. Friday, September the 30th, 2011. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 15 indicated. Question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 17 Are you going to advertise in the paper? Or are we going to 18 send out pigeons, or -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I would hope that the media would 20 run with this, number one. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Number two, probably going to talk 23 with H.R. and figure out if they want to run some sort of 24 notice where they think that would be appropriate. I'm not 25 sure that we're required to give any public notice, as we 9-12-11 126 1 often are on other types of issues that -- that we handle. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sure Mr. Trolinger will be 3 glad to put it on our website. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. On the employment 5 section of the website, it would be an appropriate place for 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to make sure you're 8 awake, John. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We wouldn't want to leave him 10 out, would we? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5 o'clock, 30th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Further question or 13 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 14 hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to 19; to 19 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on approval of 20 Community Collaboration Agreement between Hill Country 21 Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, Inc., and Kerr County 22 Court. This is an annual requirement. They provide services 23 to us. It's a nonexclusive arrangement, community agreement. 24 Do I hear a motion to approve? 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Make a motion to approve. 9-12-11 127 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Item 20; to 9 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on holding joint 10 meeting with Kerr County Commissioners Court and the Board of 11 Directors for Kerr Economic Development Corporation. I put 12 this on the agenda at the request of the K.E.D.C. folks. I 13 believe Mr. Watson is here today. Actually, I believe he 14 wanted as early a meeting as possible. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want to 16 accomplish, Mr. Watson? 17 MR. WATSON: Our board has requested that we have a 18 joint meeting with y'all to discuss what your concerns are in 19 economic development, and see where you would like to go 20 forward and how you plan to do that. We are also going to 21 extend that invitation to the other entities in the -- being 22 the City, KPUB, and EIC, but y'all are being asked first. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Individual meetings? Or -- 24 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, individual meetings. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And in that meeting -- 9-12-11 128 1 that's a great idea. I like it. I like your idea. In that 2 meeting, you'll provide us -- I just remember several years 3 ago, we -- this Court helped develop a tax abatement program. 4 MR. WATSON: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'd like to renew that 6 conversation. 7 MR. WATSON: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And just kind of find out 9 where it is, and if -- you know, if we need to tweak it or 10 whatever. I'd just like to know about it. 11 MR. WATSON: Okay. Yeah, we can discuss that. The 12 main interest is getting what your concerns are and your 13 goals for moving forward. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a proposed date? 16 MR. WATSON: They want to do it Thursday, but I 17 don't think that that's possible for getting that set up. 18 But it -- we're really open to that. As soon as possible. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we do it on the 26th? 20 Which is -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's a -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- our next Commissioners Court 23 meeting. Do you have a time of day that's better? 24 MR. WATSON: They prefer in the mornings, early 25 mornings. 9-12-11 129 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happens on Friday? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's Friday afternoon -- 4 no, that's at 9 o'clock, isn't it? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Commissioners Court meeting. 6 MR. WATSON: I think they'd be open to whatever, 7 Mr. Letz. 8 (low-voice discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Want to meet about 7:30? 10 MR. WATSON: That's when we normally hold our 11 meetings. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 7:30. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Boy, y'all don't make it easy 14 for me. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You get the wind at that 17 time. That will blow you quicker in the morning, man. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Trying to figure out what to do 19 with the kids. We'll adjust. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Want to meet -- you wanted to 21 meet this week, if possible? 22 MR. WATSON: Thursday, if possible. If not, then 23 the 26th will be fine. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Thursday -- what's the date, 25 the 15th? 9-12-11 130 1 MR. WATSON: Yeah, 15th. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 15th, yeah. Have to be 3 afternoon, wouldn't it, because of the posting requirement? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure would. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we can meet Friday, then. 7 Just do them Friday at 7:30. That's obviously before 9:00. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 7:30 on Friday. 10 MR. WATSON: Friday, the 16th? That'll work. 11 MS. HARGIS: 7:30? 12 MR. WATSON: They've asked if you wanted to meet at 13 the Chamber offices or here. Which one do you prefer? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Generally, when we have meetings, 15 statutorily we're required to do it here. With -- if it's 16 with another governmental entity, we can do it elsewhere, 17 but -- 18 MR. WATSON: Since we're not a governmental 19 entity -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- KEDF is not governmental, so 21 looks like we're here. 22 MR. WATSON: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Talking about 7:30? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Friday morning. 9-12-11 131 1 MR. WATSON: Sounds good. I appreciate it. Look 2 forward to seeing you on Friday, then. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Ray. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Ray. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that Lake Travis Day? We 7 got to get our ankles taped. We got to start getting our 8 ankles taped about 8 o'clock that morning. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen, let me ask you. We've 10 got a number of agenda items remaining, and probably the one 11 that has the potential for some length of discussion is going 12 to be Item 24, budget items. There's going to be a number of 13 those. Is that your estimation? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably so. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably -- I guess. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one little old issue 19 that shouldn't take two or three hours. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Well, that being 21 the case, we're going to be in recess until 1:30, and we'll 22 take up the remaining agenda at that time. 23 (Recess taken from 12:08 pm. to 1:36 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 9-12-11 132 1 we might. We were in recess for lunchtime, and let's go to 2 Item 21; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve -- I guess that also means disapprove, if that's what 4 we choose -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- interlocal agreement between the 7 County of Kerr and City of Kerrville. The Sheriff asked that 8 this item be placed on the agenda. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you have a copy of the 10 interlocal agreement. I think we've hashed a lot this 11 morning on what I feel I can and can't do. I think this is a 12 good interlocal agreement. County Attorney has looked at it. 13 City Attorney has looked at it. I think it covers all of our 14 concerns. It covers the cost of housing. Now, if the J.P.'s 15 are saying somewhere around the neighborhood of $8,000 a year 16 for magistration, and if the City were to agree to it, and 17 you add $5 a day -- instead of $45, go to $50 -- I think at 18 that point, because of the number of on-view arrests, you're 19 probably going to come right at that 8,000 a year. 'Cause I 20 think there's probably -- and I'd have to go back and pull 21 the actual numbers, but there's -- out of all the arrests, 22 there's probably 1,500 or so that are on-view. And then, of 23 course, the Class C's that are filed in the city, they not 24 only pay for the one day prior to magistration; they also pay 25 for every day those Class C's that are filed in municipal 9-12-11 133 1 court are there, and I think that would make up your 2 difference. Now, whether the City would agree to it -- but 3 y'all are the ones set -- that set it. And where it says 4 "whereas" in the very front of this agreement -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, wouldn't you think 6 otherwise? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, that's what it -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I mean, it pretty well spells 10 it out. It's, "Whereas, the Commissioners Court of Kerr 11 County has passed an order authorizing the Sheriff of Kerr 12 County to accept from duly authorized law enforcement 13 officers of said city all prisoners of the city under the 14 terms and conditions and for the consideration hereinafter 15 set out." Now, you have to keep in mind, this is only for 16 on-view arrests and Class C misdemeanors that are filed -- or 17 city ordinances that are filed in municipal court. If there 18 is a warrant arrest, because that warrant already directs 19 everything, and it's set out in the statute, that person 20 comes to the jail, and that's the Sheriff's responsibility, 21 period. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I heard the J.P.'s make 23 their presentation, and I think they were very, very -- very 24 conservative in their numbers as it pertains to the relative 25 value of their services, or not having the municipal judges 9-12-11 134 1 as magistrates within the rotation. In fact, I think -- I 2 think they were too much so, conservative. I think if they 3 were to do a time management study, they would find that they 4 were seriously lacking in -- in what those numbers ought to 5 be. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if they want to do -- 7 you know, y'all want to do a separate agreement for 8 magistration, that's a separate agreement. If you added five 9 to this one, it only covers those warrantless arrests, okay? 10 It doesn't cover the warrant arrests or anything else. I 11 don't know what you can get out of that, Judge. I'm not -- 12 you know, I've got to house inmates. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have the -- and that's all I 15 can do. And the chief and I sat down, and trying to keep 16 this all out of the squabble, this is what we came up with. 17 My actual cost of housing a prisoner per day is bouncing 18 anywhere from $40 to $41 a day that it actually costs us to 19 house. And so -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a direct cost, correct? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's if you take every -- my 22 entire jail budget and divide it out by the number of arrests 23 done per year; that's what you come up with. Okay? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for example, that doesn't 25 include any depreciation to the facility. It doesn't include 9-12-11 135 1 any debt service cost that's being paid for the facility. 2 You're talking about some direct costs? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think if we're going to go that 5 route and leave the magistration for another day, I think 6 maybe a $10 increase would be more appropriate. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I support what you're 8 saying. I think that brings in, you know, the funds or the 9 revenue, which is, I think, the purpose. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, I'm not sure that's 11 accomplishing what the J.P.'s -- the J.P.'s would like those 12 municipal judges in the rotation. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's an issue of them having more 15 time for themselves, that they're not under the stress. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Their big benefit, they would 17 have those two -- they should rightfully be in the rotation. 18 They are magistrates like everyone else, that same level for 19 the city. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a separate 21 issue. Because the J.P.'s kind of have a hammer, I think, 22 within the law, from what I heard this morning, to say, you 23 know, -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we raise the fee -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we're not going to -- 9-12-11 136 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we raise the fee, that takes 2 the hammer away. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That becomes moot. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, to me, I think we 5 do nothing today, and work on the magistration issue one way 6 -- one way or the other. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And there's an option to come 8 back to raise it $10. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, that is on the 10 table. And we need to continue to work with them on the 11 magistration issue. They can be separate agreements or the 12 same agreement, but they have to be dealt with at the same 13 time. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The only thing I would 15 ask the County Attorney probably to research, in that -- one, 16 two, three -- fourth "whereas" in this agreement, it states 17 in there that the Commissioners Court of Kerr County has 18 passed an order authorizing the Sheriff of Kerr County to 19 accept from duly authorized law enforcement officers of said 20 city all prisoners of the city under the terms and conditions 21 and for the consideration herein set out. If there was an 22 order back when the City closed their city jail and we 23 started accepting prisoners, and there was a separate court 24 order in there saying that the Sheriff accepts those 25 prisoners, then there may need to be some action taken on 9-12-11 137 1 that order. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If such exists, we'll have an 3 opportunity at our next meeting to rescind that order. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And I think it's a good 5 point, Sheriff, that we need to kind of make sure that 6 there's -- we want to, you know, either have a new agreement 7 or no agreement, in my mind. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This Court controls that, not 9 me. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's really the only control we 11 have, isn't it, Sheriff? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have much. Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The only thing is that 14 it will -- well, the Court understands that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The consequences and things 17 that could happen with manpower for county law enforcement, 18 and I think that needs to be thought about. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We will. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess that's another way of saying 21 we'll see if it -- if there continues to exist a good faith 22 issue. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of what I heard. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. Anything else on that, 25 gentlemen? Okay, let's go to Item 22; to consider, discuss, 9-12-11 138 1 and approve 2012 Sheriffs' and Constables' fees. This is a 2 requirement that we have from the Comptroller to do this, and 3 we submit them -- what, by the end of the year, Sheriff? And 4 they publish them in a master book so that the whole world 5 can see. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. And last year, you got 7 a copy of both the '11's and then the '12's. And I think 8 you'll see the '11's got real convoluted and changed, and -- 9 and I really probably made a mistake in some of that. Some 10 of that, I went by what another county had been doing. And 11 you get into the housing of, say, an inmate from Brownwood or 12 whatever, Austin is arrested here on a warrant out of Austin. 13 We were going to charge them so much a day until they come 14 get their inmate. The Attorney General's opinion says you 15 can't do that absent an interlocal agreement, okay? So, 16 unless we have an interlocal agreement with every county in 17 the state, we couldn't do that anyhow. A lot of those other 18 fees that were in the '11's are all set out in the public 19 open records -- or, you know, Public Information Act and that 20 charges those fees. So, we tried to make it a little bit 21 simplified and a little bit straightforward, a little bit 22 easier to understand. I did meet with two constables and one 23 of the J.P.'s in going over this. We talked about it. I 24 know one constable has a -- a separate fee that he would 25 probably like consideration on, okay. But other than that, I 9-12-11 139 1 think this is a fair set of fees, and I think it's the fee 2 schedule that our county should adopt for 2012. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, there's one typo in there 4 under Writ of Possession, about the sixth item down, in the 5 parenthetical. We're missing the plus sign, or spelled out 6 "plus." 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the '12? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 2012, yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yep. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the writ of what one, 11 Judge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Possession. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, where it says -- we should 14 say "plus any cost incurred." 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. That can be added to 17 that. And otherwise, what this does do is, the very last -- 18 on the last page at the very bottom -- and I think some of 19 them agree that this needed to be done -- is a standby. A 20 lot of times on these evictions or different writs or 21 different deals, officers are stuck standing by for a long 22 time, and that last one says additional requirements. In 23 addition to the above fees covering all of them, a 24 $40-per-hour standby charge will be added after two hours, 25 per officer. I think that helps recoup some of those costs. 9-12-11 140 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, Sheriff, civil standby -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not under any of this. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's my point. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's part of our duties. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Your officers are often called on to 6 do a civil standby. And I'm not opposed to it, certainly, 7 but that's just a service to the citizens, is it not? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's nothing we can do 11 there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the fee 13 schedule as presented by the Sheriff. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the fee schedule. Question or discussion? All 17 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 22 Item 23; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 23 allocate capital funds for equipment for Animal Control 24 Department. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to pass that, 9-12-11 141 1 Judge. She has figured out another way in her budget to get 2 some equipment without having to go through this process of 3 allocating capital funds, money that's in her budget this 4 year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What it is, is she needs to 7 buy -- there's a person that is leaving and they have a bunch 8 of live traps. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Cages, whatnot? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. They have a hard trap 11 and a hog trap and another trap to use for catching other 12 animals, and she can buy that stuff for less than half of 13 what new costs, and it's all in good shape. We're only 14 talking about approximately $1,000 or so. 15 MS. WHITT: 1,200 total. But I did find the money 16 within my budget to be able to do that, so I don't need to do 17 anything. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Some good hunting there, huh? Good. 19 MS. WHITT: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. That's all we need on 21 that? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all we need on that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to 24; consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action on various matters in 25 proposed fiscal 2011-12 Kerr County budget. Your name's on 9-12-11 142 1 this thing again, Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I noticed that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate you for 5 carrying it over. And I'm assuming that's what it is, just a 6 carry-over. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To discuss things if 9 necessary. I have -- I have one item that I just want to 10 throw out on the table that I'm curious and interested in, 11 and that is salaries and salary increases. I saw a list a 12 couple of weeks ago, seems like, of some folks in the 13 system -- and I'm not going to name names, 'cause that's not 14 important, but the issue is -- that are getting a salary 15 increase, and they get this salary increase, whether it be a 16 2 or 2 and a half percent or whatever it might be, and then 17 when they get that, they get the 6 and a half on top of it, 18 so it really turns into a 9 or 10 percent salary increase, as 19 opposed to a 6 -- 6 and a half as we advertise and talk about 20 all the time. I just don't know that that's the proper thing 21 to do, and I just wanted to throw that out on the table. You 22 know, if we're -- if we're going to give some people a -- I 23 just think, you know, if you're going to give them 6 and a 24 half cent -- percent salary increase, then that's what you 25 need to give them. 9-12-11 143 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, as I look at it, 2 the other -- not the 6 and a half percent, but the other part 3 of it are basically merit increases. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what it is? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, or change in job 7 descriptions, or -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Responsibilities. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, something like that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Longevities. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Longevities, some of those. 12 And it seems that if you don't -- if you make them take one 13 or the other, or don't give them the 6 and a half, it's 14 really not giving them a promotion or longevity or something 15 else. I don't see how you don't give them those increases 16 first, and then give the -- you know, but I'm not with you on 17 the 6 and a half percent. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand. I'm 19 just using -- I'm just using that as an example, 'cause that 20 is what's on the table, though. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I -- you know, you're 24 talking -- you're not giving them a 6 and a half percent 25 salary increase; you're giving them a 10, or a 9 at least, 9-12-11 144 1 salary increase. And I just -- I'm not sure that that's the 2 right thing that you need -- we need to be doing. Now, I 3 don't know what the solution is. I think maybe you would -- 4 you know, if it's a 2 percent salary increase or 6 and a 5 half, you'd give them the greater of the two or something 6 like that, but not both. I just -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess, how do you treat 8 somebody who -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gently. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who earned it? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who earned it. Let's say 12 someone gets promoted to be a deputy clerk, something like 13 that. They get a new job starting the first of the year, and 14 they still have a cost-of-living increase. I mean, which 15 everyone should get. To me, it's -- I don't see how you can 16 not give a merit increase. Either that -- I mean, and the 17 cost-of-living on top of it. 'Cause otherwise, you're not 18 giving them a merit increase. Why not -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably correct. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, some of those are like 21 -- what is it, every three years or something like that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's longevities. That's -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Longevity is what I was more 24 concerned about. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But those people are 9-12-11 145 1 getting a 9 percent, or even -- 6 and a half and 3; they get 2 9 and a half percent. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Well, I'm just 4 telling you what -- the way I think, the way I see it. I 5 just -- I just -- we're not -- you know, if we're going to 6 give them a 59 percent salary increase, let's say we're 7 giving them a 59 percent salary increase. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that particular employee, 9 they are getting it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: They're only getting a 2 and a half 11 percent merit increase, and they're getting a 6 and a half, 12 in the current proposal, cost-of-living increase. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's also a policy thing we 14 set, that those would be given over those merits. Merits was 15 one time they can do in the course of whatever? 16 MS. PIEPER: Four in the course of the lifetime. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I brought up my item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is everybody -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you itemed out? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm itemed out for 22 now. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. For now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- I have a question; it's 25 not really an item. I have a question as to exactly how many 9-12-11 146 1 positions -- well, we had the positions that were -- are 2 vacant right now, are open. Rusty, last time, said he was 3 going to make those permanent, or two of them or -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Three of them. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- three of them permanent. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Based on 6 and a half. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Y'all remember that wording. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- how many unfilled positions 10 are we going forward into the next year? That we're 11 budgeting -- positions that we're budgeting for, but we're 12 not filling? 13 MS. HARGIS: Seven have been removed. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I wanted to find out how 15 many there are. 16 MS. HARGIS: Seven positions have been removed. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven have been removed. Are 18 there any -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: How many more are -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many are -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budgeted for, but not filled? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- not removed? 23 MS. MABRY: Approximately another seven or eight. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven or eight? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. That's what I came 9-12-11 147 1 up with the other day. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just -- okay. I know you 3 have your spreadsheet there. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's got small print; that's 5 why I put my glasses on. 6 MS. HARGIS: Hang on a second. Let me see if I -- 7 I thought I had it with me. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And to go with that, what is 9 the total number of dollars if we were to eliminate those 10 positions from the position schedule that are open, the seven 11 that you say that have been given up, that don't need to be 12 funded? 13 MS. HARGIS: There's actually eight positions open 14 right now. That would give us 342,000. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much? 16 MS. HARGIS: 342. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 342? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the existing, but unfilled 19 positions? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Budgeted, but unfilled. 22 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How about the seven that have 24 been eliminated? 25 MS. HARGIS: 315,138. 9-12-11 148 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 316? 2 MS. HARGIS: 315,138. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- how many 4 employees make up that 315? 5 MS. HARGIS: One, two, three, four, five, six. 6 Six. And then we had H.R. higher, so we brought -- there was 7 about $12,000 savings there. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Which of these 9 numbers, I guess, are the ones that -- that maybe we don't 10 intend to put in the position schedule? Is that the 342 or 11 the 315? 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, let me go over them with you. 13 Let me get up here so you can hear me. The first position is 14 the motor vehicle position, which you've already approved to 15 be filled in the Tax Office. The Ag Barn maintenance person, 16 Animal Control officer, the three positions that have been 17 requested to be left in by the Sheriff; C.I.D., civil deputy, 18 and a clerk. Road and Bridge has one, and then you've 19 already approved the Indigent Health Coordinator, which is 20 going to -- is being interviewed now. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. So, the ones that the 22 Sheriff gave up, that's three, correct? 23 MS. HARGIS: He gave up two. He had a total of 24 five. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought we gave up another 9-12-11 149 1 one the other day. 2 MS. HARGIS: That's all I had, is five. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I originally said two, as 5 y'all recall, okay? And then last week, if it made up the 6 other $206,000 the County was short for the 6.5 percent 7 increase, I said I would give up that -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you won't give it up for 9 less than 6.5? Is that the -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause it's going to put -- 11 the thing is, gentlemen, it's kind of where we were at last 12 year. It's going to put one heck of a strain on job duties 13 for the ones remaining. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I understand that. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's where I'm at. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you could give up three? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I could give up three, keep 18 two; keep a civil -- I mean -- yeah, a civil one that I'm 19 asking for, and a jail clerk. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. And then we have two 21 in the clerk's office; is that correct, Jannett? 22 MS. HARGIS: Those have already been -- those have 23 been taken out. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, there's five there. 25 Now, the other two -- 9-12-11 150 1 MS. HARGIS: The Extension Agent. We took out the 2 Extension Agent. They have an open position. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, got it. 4 MS. HARGIS: The secretary at D.P.S. Then we had 5 the two that the Sheriff gave up; they were C.I.D. positions. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, that's seven or eight? 7 MS. HARGIS: One, two, three, four, five, six, 8 seven. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seven, okay. And the total 10 of those seven is how much money? 11 MS. HARGIS: 315,138. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, that's what I was 13 trying to get to. The other thing I'd like to know is, 14 what -- I had you to run some numbers for me, which I have in 15 front of me, that I have not shared with anybody else yet, 16 but you're more than welcome to look at them if she'll pass 17 them out to you. I would like to know what the total amount 18 of the -- the total -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Did I give you five? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- total raise would be -- 21 the total dollar amount at 4 percent, rather than 6.5. The 22 dollar amount. 23 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce, can you quickly explain 25 what this is? 9-12-11 151 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What this is, if you'll look 2 and you start at the top left, that starts out at a one-cent 3 tax increase and 6.5 percent COLA, raise, whatever you want 4 to call it. And you -- and if you go across, you can look at 5 the estimated fund balance for this year, and then you can 6 look at the estimated fund balance at the end of 2012 fiscal 7 year. And you go right down the list, and the first one's a 8 penny. The second one is a penny and a quarter. The third 9 one is a penny and a half, and then a penny and 10 three-quarters, and then two pennies, and then no pennies. 11 The no pennies is at the bottom right. 12 MS. HARGIS: On the back side is 4 percent. The 13 front -- one side is 4 percent; one side is 6 and a half. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was that total amount 15 where you have that for me on the total amount of dollar 16 increase it would be? 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. This is -- I'm just giving it 18 in Fund 10. In Fund 10, the total for 6.5 is 589,973. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All right. At 4 percent? 20 MS. HARGIS: Four percent is 362,808. We're 21 227,165 difference. $227,165. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was that? 227? 23 MS. HARGIS: Two hundred -- 227,615 -- 165. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What does that represent, again? 25 MS. HARGIS: The difference between the two. 9-12-11 152 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Six and a half and four? 2 MS. HARGIS: The difference between the two is 3 that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, now I'm with you. 6 MS. HARGIS: All right. Also, there was a comment 7 about how much reserve, and Commissioner Baldwin said 25 8 percent or three months, and they're exactly the same. And I 9 put that in the upper left-hand corner of each one of these 10 scenarios, and the total is 4,525,734. And we are a long 11 ways from having 25 percent. So, it wouldn't matter if we 12 didn't get raises; we still need to have -- we've got to 13 increase this fund balance, and it's going to take us a 14 little while. We can't do it overnight. In order to be 15 fiducially responsible, and the way we've cut and cut and 16 cut, but the cash is not coming back. So, it's kind of like 17 they said about the 10 percent when I was in the TAC 18 conference on dwindling reserves. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The State of Texas said they lost 20 $10 million in fines and fees, and they don't know where it 21 came from, so they're going to collect that 10 million back 22 from us, I guarantee you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have the calculator with 24 you? 25 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 9-12-11 153 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be the easiest way 2 to do it. Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I note that it also assumes a -- 4 MS. HARGIS: A group insurance reduction, and it's 5 in the top column, of 493,000. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 MS. HARGIS: That's greater than what Mr. Looney's 8 showing, because we have budgeted greater -- a greater amount 9 than he's showing on his sheet, and that's the difference. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. But the buy-up plan, 11 employee only, is 461. 12 MS. HARGIS: This is assuming the same plan as we 13 have now. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: This is not assuming the buy-up plan. 16 This is assuming the same plan as we have today. 'Cause I -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The Humana plan. 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes. The same savings that we would 19 get -- the TAC plan that was presented for the same type of 20 plan, $3,000 deductible and so forth that TAC offered. They 21 offered two plans. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. HARGIS: One was the co-pay plan, which was the 24 buy-up plan, and the other -- so this is the savings off of 25 the TAC plan. This does not include the savings we got 9-12-11 154 1 today, which is another $61,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on 461, the buy-up plan, with 3 the commission taken out. 4 MS. HARGIS: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: It's almost exactly the commission. 7 It's the commission that he -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, be 61,000, $62,000. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And does this include the 10 amount that we took out the other day going down Buster's 11 list? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it does. Yes. What he -- what 13 he found, and then what we found. The only thing that we had 14 a problem with, and what made it a little bit less was the 15 C.P.S. cases have gone up. And we are way behind for this 16 year, and so we had to put some more money back in there. 17 Because also, the law has now changed on those as well. 18 Those people now get an attorney immediately. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the reason for me doing 20 this probably is pretty -- pretty obvious, but this would -- 21 what it looks like here, according to what she's documented, 22 this would allow for a 4 percent increase, however it would 23 be divided, whether we get it as a percentage or whether we 24 gave a certain amount to each and every employee. And still, 25 there would be no tax increase. There would be a 4 percent 9-12-11 155 1 increase in salaries for everybody, and then we'd still put 2 half a million dollars into our reserve. Correct me if I'm 3 wrong on that. 4 MS. HARGIS: Let me get my other sheet. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That does the same thing as a 6 penny and a half does at 6 and a half percent. Real close. 7 A penny and a quarter, I'm sorry, not a half penny. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Penny and a quarter increase 10 in taxes. And a 6 and a half percent increase for everybody 11 requires a penny and a quarter. That's what this says. 12 MS. HARGIS: I know, but that's not getting my 13 reserve up to where it needs to be. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we'll get to that in a 15 minute. I'm just saying, this is -- this is what I call the 16 base. If you want to get to the -- you know, everybody gets 17 that. The taxpayers get something, employees get something, 18 and our reserve is built slightly. You can go up from there 19 anywhere you want to go. That's just -- I thought that that 20 was what we needed to find out. 21 MS. HARGIS: The raises are not -- they're not 22 impacting it. It's the fund balance. The fund balance is 23 two million behind, regardless of what you do today. And 24 giving the raises or not giving the raises is not going to 25 get us much closer. And we need to start ratcheting that up, 9-12-11 156 1 and by only doing it every time you hit them with a large 2 amount of money, it's more -- you know, if you hit with a -- 3 a penny, or a half a penny, whatever, a year, it's not as 4 hard a hit. But we've got to get this fund balance up, 5 because right now it's too low. If we had another dip in the 6 economy, and our -- and our sales tax fell another half a 7 million in one year, we'd be in a real bad problem. And that 8 can happen. It happened real quick to us, quicker than we 9 thought, and so we need some insurance. I know the insurance 10 is hard to ask the people to give us, but at the same token, 11 I don't think they want us to not have enough money to pay 12 for what they want us to do. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and I don't disagree 14 with that. I'm just saying that this -- this is one way to 15 look at it. And also you could look at, on top of that, 16 if -- you know, it's real hard to explain to the general 17 public a tax increase whenever there is an increase in 18 salaries. You know, this -- a lot of this -- the increase 19 could be totally justified against what our increased costs 20 were that the City has put on us without much negotiation for 21 the coming year. And I just don't know how you get it across 22 to the general public that whatever tax increase, whether it 23 be a penny, two pennies, or whatever is decided, is really 24 going for those increases, and not -- not against the salary 25 increases. 9-12-11 157 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'll never convince them. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Never convince them of that. 3 But that's -- you know, that's the mind-set that they have. 4 And, you know, all of this -- this money that we have to work 5 with was all generated by the amount of cuts that were made 6 by our staff, and the extra duties taken on by the people 7 that are left, and I don't know how you get that across to 8 the public, that they ought to be able to share in some of 9 the savings that -- you know, what I would say is good 10 management by our elected officials and department heads. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think you can -- I 12 think you can tell people that you -- you increased the 13 salaries, and the way you did it was decreasing another part 14 of your budget. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it' more clear -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a term for that, but 19 I can't recall what it is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that you increased the 21 salaries because we've reduced staff and asked the people 22 that are left to do more work. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 24 MS. HARGIS: We've also decreased the group 25 insurance by $500,000. That in itself pays for the raises. 9-12-11 158 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it offset -- you offset 2 it with the decreases somewhere else -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in the budget, and I 5 don't think that that's as ugly as just raising taxes to pay 6 salaries. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's not. It's just a 8 matter of it being reported that way, and the way it really 9 is, instead of the way that, you know, sometimes it comes out 10 in the media. But that's the part that's irritating, is that 11 it seems that anybody else around here can just run footloose 12 and fancy free without all the public hearings and without 13 all the things that we're subject to have, and to move money 14 around and things, which we don't do. And -- I don't know. 15 It's a real -- it's a real hard call for me. And I guess the 16 thing that makes it the hardest is to vote on anything that 17 would increase my salary, because then they equate that to 18 being Washington politicians. And I'm not opposed to anybody 19 else having it, but for myself, I just -- there's something 20 in my gut that just won't let me do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other part -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At this particular time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with that, but 24 the -- and I -- unfortunately, it was my idea to do it last 25 year when we reduced our salaries. 9-12-11 159 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to get back even, it gets 3 reported as we're increasing our salaries. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And, as Buster said, they won't 6 understand that either, right? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, they won't understand 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't even remember it 10 happening, because it came out that -- that it was such a 11 small deal, it didn't make any difference. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a guy yesterday -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not when you're on the 14 receiving end of that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a guy yesterday; I 16 said, "Well, you remember, we reduced our salaries?" "Yeah, 17 I appreciate that. Now..." And went right on down the road. 18 I mean, it didn't even faze him. Of course, he was 170 years 19 old, but -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will tell you one other 21 thing that I -- while I'm yakking. I want to tell you one 22 other thing I think I'm a fan of, and I thought about it. 23 But Linda -- of course, you know Linda comes up with all 24 kinds of plans for people. And -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Linda? Who are you speaking of, 9-12-11 160 1 Commissioner? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm speaking of our 3 esteemed District Clerk. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I -- but her idea has 6 merit, I think. And, you know, the people that are on the 7 low end of the pay scale are the ones that suffer the most, 8 and rather than do a straight percentage, I would prefer to 9 do a dollar amount per employee, and that dollar amount be 10 the same across the board, whether it be $1,000 or $1,200, or 11 whatever we could afford, rather than a percentage. Because 12 the top end people get -- get a lot more total dollars. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Then we end up with the Sheriff 14 raising the $5,000 rule. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I knew that was going to 16 happen, because I -- you know, I had to do it. 17 MS. LANTZ: That will mess up the step and grade. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Drastically. 19 MS. WILLIAMS: The step and grade schedule is built 20 on percentages, not dollar amounts. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing I'd like to say, and 22 talk about the tax increase -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I knew I was going to get 24 shot. It's not fair. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you wanted to know how 9-12-11 161 1 to explain it. Very simple. This county's given up almost 2 -- all year, almost 14 -- 13 positions. All those -- and, 3 unfortunately, because of hard economic times, the duties of 4 every one of these employees has increased. Not -- it would 5 have increased even if they had those 13 positions back. You 6 see that in the jail population. You see that with the 7 magistrations. You're seeing more and more county officials 8 getting frustrated with the whole thing and leaving because 9 of that. And the bottom line, gentlemen, a one penny tax 10 increase will cost the citizens one dollar per month on a 11 $100,000 home. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you giving that to me? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all it's going to cost. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to get to share 15 that amongst us, or what? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can leave it there for 17 however long it takes, but that's what the increase is to 18 give your employees the raise -- or the cost-of-living back 19 up from being behind for several years, and keep employees. 20 One dollar a month per taxpayer. And if you want to take 21 care of fund balance and you want to take care of inmate 22 housing issues and everything else, it's going to cost them 23 two dollars a month. Two dollars a month. Now, the City of 24 Kerrville last year raised my utilities, or sewer and water 25 by almost $10 a month. 9-12-11 162 1 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? And all we're asking is 3 to take care of the employees and give them back what they've 4 lost for the last several years, and take care of the issues 5 this County's got. It's two dollars a month. That's how you 6 explain it, 'cause that's all it amounts to. And if you want 7 my first two dollars a month, you're more than welcome to it. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't want to be indebted 9 to you for anything. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you said that, 11 'cause I was fixing to take it. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Take those two bucks? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be the most 14 expensive two bucks you ever took. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I know. I realize 16 that now, Bruce. Thank you. 17 MR. WALSTON: I just -- I've got a question. Y'all 18 threw out some positions a while ago that I was not familiar 19 with. Is the FCS position included in one of those that 20 you're wanting to cut? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's included in the budget, but not 22 filled at present. 23 MR. WALSTON: Is that -- 24 MS. HARGIS: We cut it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hiring freeze. 9-12-11 163 1 MR. WALSTON: So it wouldn't be -- 2 MS. HARGIS: We cut it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: When did you cut it? 4 MS. HARGIS: Last time we were in here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's cut. 6 MS. HARGIS: We asked, and y'all said yes, and we 7 cut it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall hearing that, but 9 maybe my hearing wasn't working at the time. 10 MR. WALSTON: Okay. Well, that's what -- I wasn't 11 aware of it, and didn't -- as far as a full paid county 12 position, that is not a full paid position. So, for what 13 you're actually getting, I'd like for you to take that into 14 consideration. As far as what her actual -- the county 15 salary portion that she's getting that y'all would be 16 cutting, we would be losing a position that's considerably 17 more than what y'all are -- y'all are getting considerably 18 more than what you're paying for. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That is about 20, as I recall, isn't 20 it? That's on our end of it. 21 MR. WALSTON: I don't -- I believe it's about 15, 22 in that ballpark. I'd have to doublecheck, but we can -- I 23 didn't bring that with me. But -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's only partially funded, but 25 I thought it was in the budget, but just not filled. 9-12-11 164 1 MR. WALSTON: That's the way I understood it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 MS. HARGIS: We removed it. It's actually -- by 4 the time we get through paying for it, it's 32,000. There's 5 retirement, FICA -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Roll-ups? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the salary portion? Do you 9 have it there? 10 MS. HARGIS: $21,060. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. WALSTON: 21,00? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, where is security? 14 How did these guys get in here? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't let them in, Buster. 16 Here it is right here, but he can't go backwards right now. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pop off a couple of caps and 18 see what happens. 19 MR. WALSTON: Jeannie, is that just cutting it in 20 half, or is that FCS portion left? 21 MS. HARGIS: That's the amount we had on there, on 22 the books for that position, is 21. We don't pay the -- the 23 A & M portion; they pay that. 24 MR. WALSTON: So you just took the county portion 25 and split it in half? 9-12-11 165 1 MS. HARGIS: No, I didn't -- I didn't take the 2 county's portion and split it in half. We just removed it. 3 MR. WALSTON: That's part of my salary, too. 4 MS. MABRY: No, it's in a separate line item. 5 MR. WALSTON: It's separate? Okay. 6 MS. MABRY: That's separate. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we're getting somewhere. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Seriously. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we know what the real rub was, 10 right, Roy? 11 MR. WALSTON: No, I just wanted to see how deep it 12 was getting. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. What are we 14 doing with this particular person? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's out, right? 16 MS. HARGIS: It's out, right. Now, it's up to 17 y'all. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We only pay for half of that 19 position. That position -- and just recently, the Extension 20 Service has -- I think has started anew to try and get some 21 of these positions filled. The shake-out within the system 22 has pretty well happened. That position probably is very 23 helpful to us in terms of keeping our indigent health care 24 down. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the lady -- the lady 9-12-11 166 1 side of it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your -- 4 MR. WALSTON: As far as -- as far as the -- I'll 5 tell you, the State has pretty well -- up until they got the 6 state budget approved, they were pretty well nonexistent as 7 far as trying to fill that position, and it's been open only 8 internally within Extension during that time. They just 9 recently opened it to external applicants. And so that 10 position takes care of indigent health care, nutrition, 11 family nutrition, as far as our youth development aspect of 12 it, all of our -- our home economics. On the youth program, 13 which in the past two to three years -- or two years that 14 we've lost that position, we've relied 100 percent on 15 volunteers to carry that out. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz was saying something 17 about if you didn't start teaching canning and sewing again, 18 we were going to -- 19 MR. WALSTON: It won't be done without her. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What -- does -- Roy, does the 21 State cover that other half? 22 MR. WALSTON: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 24 MR. WALSTON: Well, it's not necessarily a half. 25 It's -- 9-12-11 167 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A portion of it? 2 MR. WALSTON: -- a portion. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 4 MR. WALSTON: Usually it's, you know, the benefits, 5 retirement, health. Y'all's portion covers salary, and then 6 as well as travel. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. Who's in that position 8 right now? 9 MR. WALSTON: It's vacant. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, it's vacant. That's 11 what we look at -- 12 MS. HARGIS: It's been vacant for about nine 13 months. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Nine months, yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Canning and sewing. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those are life skills. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, they're -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Life skills that may come in 19 handy one of these days. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I remember when we 21 went from canning to sewing to helping little old folks do 22 their checkbooks, and now I'm not sure what they do. But -- 23 but he just told us what they did, but really, I don't know 24 what they do. 25 MR. WALSTON: May be getting back to that canning a 9-12-11 168 1 lot quicker than we think. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No kidding. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only if we get some water to 4 grow something. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is that person back in? 6 Or gone? I don't require -- I don't remember you answering 7 my question. That's kind of the same thing you threw at him 8 a while ago. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I prefer to put it in. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do too. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Particularly since you get -- you 13 know, you're getting a full value for half the dough, so to 14 speak. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I agree. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Roy, question. How long is 17 -- it's been vacant for nine months, but prior to that, how 18 long has it been filled? I mean -- 19 MR. WALSTON: Well, the young lady that was there 20 before, she was there for about two years. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 22 MR. WALSTON: And -- 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And really helped out a bunch 24 out in the field? 25 MR. WALSTON: Oh, yeah. I mean, that position, as 9-12-11 169 1 far as the way we operated in our office, it's a team 2 approach -- effort that she takes care of the -- the 4-H home 3 economics. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 5 MR. WALSTON: As well as the nutrition, diabetes 6 education, as far as community education, nutrition, anything 7 related to family and consumer sciences. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 MR. WALSTON: And, like I say, it's -- a lot of 10 times, it's either a Bachelor's degree or a Master's. If 11 it's not a Master's, they'll be getting it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- it seems to me that, 13 I mean, before we start adding positions back in, we need to 14 figure out a tax increase. If we're going with a tax 15 increase, then you can add positions in. If we're not going 16 with any tax increase, we can't add -- we certainly can't add 17 anything back. I mean, they're related. This is more, 18 probably, directed to Commissioner Overby. He said no tax 19 increase, and now he wants to add a position back. That's 20 inconsistent to me. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm more getting the history 22 on the job vacancy right now. This is good information. I 23 want to take time to look at it a little bit more before I 24 give any answer to that, or any comment. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. I'm just 9-12-11 170 1 trying to -- I was confused. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, am I hearing -- let me 3 see if I know where we are exactly. We're talking about 4 cutting seven positions. 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, we're down to six. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, let's leave that -- 7 let's leave it seven, and then that money is 315,138. And 8 that's enough to give all employees a 4 percent salary 9 increase and put a half million dollars back in the fund, 10 right? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what this sheet says. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I asked for. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as much as people 16 deserve. It's not as much as I would like for it to be, but 17 that's -- that's what it is if you don't want to raise taxes. 18 I'm not sure that it's a fair thing to do, to let, you know, 19 the people that mandated us to sign up on these high-dollar 20 interlocal agreements that -- you know, we told them it was 21 going to be an increase if that was done. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand -- I mean, 23 you're figuring -- I'm hearing the Auditor say something 24 different. She's saying that doesn't give enough in the 25 reserves. 9-12-11 171 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. That's what 2 she's saying. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She wants another million 4 and a half. 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'd love to that have, but I'll 6 settle for another half a million. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we don't -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A million in one year going 9 in reserves, that's tough. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's tough. It 11 shouldn't be gone. But the -- so you don't want us to give a 12 raise; you just want us to put all the money in the reserves? 13 MS. HARGIS: That's not what I said. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You didn't say that? 15 MS. HARGIS: No, I'm not. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Something kind of like that? 17 MS. HARGIS: I would like to have some money for 18 fund balance. I'm not going to make any comments about the 19 other. It's not my place. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Don't yell. 21 MS. HARGIS: I tried that last year, and it didn't 22 work. I'm learning. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yelling? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. Didn't work. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty's behind you. 9-12-11 172 1 MS. HARGIS: I know; he's going to hit me. I want 2 -- would like -- personally like to see all the employees get 3 the 6.5, because the morale will get better. We have lost 4 people this year, and -- and it is expensive to retrain. And 5 it's been my -- you know, when I was in private business and 6 I had a small company, and I struggled just like everybody 7 else in good times and bad times, but if I wanted to keep my 8 people, and I put a pencil to it, I kept going up the ladder 9 and I ended up giving 10 percent every year, because it 10 didn't show up until I gave 10 percent. And so that's what I 11 had to do as a small business, and I did that every year, and 12 I just took less. But I either kept my business and kept my 13 employees that were trained, or I had a lot of turnover. So, 14 you have to decide. The turnover cost me more money than it 15 was worth, so I just put less in my pocket. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In a service business, your 17 employees are your business. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's right. So -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Is it -- is it fair to the 20 employees for them to have to shoulder some economic 21 misfortune that we suffer because of other reasons? My clear 22 answer is no. I haven't heard a single individual on this 23 Court say that they don't deserve any more, or they don't 24 deserve as much as what I propose, or that it was fair that 25 they receive less than what I propose. All I've heard is 9-12-11 173 1 that they deserve more. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't doubt that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And if that's the case, and if 4 you're looking out for the organization and the continuity of 5 the organization, I think you're being penny-wise and 6 pound-foolish to try and lay this on their back, and to cut 7 them to solve the ills that came from some other source. 8 They've done their part for the savings. They've done it. 9 No question about it in my mind; they've done it all. And 10 they'll continue to do it, I hope. They'll continue to do it 11 if their effort is recognized. They may not if it's not. 12 But, you know, as I said the other day, you give a taxpayer 13 an option to say no, "no" is a plan to them. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We've all been part of that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- and, you know, it's real easy 16 to say no. "Well, how am I going to fund training for my 17 employees?" "Well, that's your problem." "Well, how am I 18 going to fund this?" "That's your problem." No, it's the 19 taxpayers' problem too. They're the only ones we got to go 20 to. It's like the Sheriff said; we don't have the ability 21 midyear to say we want to charge more for our services. We 22 don't have a utility operation that we're running. We don't 23 have something that has discretionary slides and scales in 24 there that we can plug in at will. The Legislature tells us 25 what we can charge for and how much we can charge, and 9-12-11 174 1 unfortunately, the other side suffers. Because at every 2 meeting of the Legislature, they say your life, liberty, and 3 property are in jeopardy. It's true for county also. I 4 believe it was Ms. Uecker that said that whereas we got to 5 keep 10 percent of something, well, they said, "No, we need 6 that money more than you do." You know the first rule of 7 plumbing, again. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We're on the downhill side. They 10 create a fee and say, "You do all the work collecting it, and 11 you send us 30 percent." Next Legislature, they say, "You 12 send us 50 percent." Next Legislature, they say, "Hmm, how 13 about 75 percent?" They don't say we're going to do the work 14 for it, do they? No. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That same thing has happened, 16 and a percentage that we were to get off of collecting, I 17 believe, the license plate fees, -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, there's some of those. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- if I'm not mistaken, over 20 a 10-year period, which we're six years into it now, we're 21 losing 100,000 a year. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That was going to Road and Bridge. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, Road and Bridge. Gone. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. No. See, they get the 25 first shot. 9-12-11 175 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And whatever crumbs are left, why, 3 we get. But we only got one place to go, and that's the 4 taxpayer. If we were a municipality with a utility 5 operation, you know, we could increase those rates if we 6 thought they were needed. We don't have that. We can't do 7 that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you were a municipality 9 with utilities, then you could get it from the taxpayers and 10 call it a rate increase, and not that three-letter word, 11 "tax." 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Where nobody complains. But 14 you only have one thing to do. And, gentlemen, I ask y'all 15 to remember what -- the little demonstration while you're 16 thinking about it over the next week or two, but I think a 17 dollar a month, there's not a citizen in this county that 18 can't afford a dollar a month to help pay for the job that 19 these employees do. 20 MS. UECKER: I don't think -- you know, it's our 21 fault, mine as well. You know, although I try to speak to as 22 many civic groups as I can on -- you know, I have a 23 presentation that I do on County Government 101 that I've 24 done to the A.D.R. and some other organizations. But I don't 25 think we've done a good enough job educating the public to 9-12-11 176 1 the fact that we're here for them. We're not here because, 2 you know, we just happen to have a place to stay and work and 3 draw a paycheck. Everything we do -- everything we do is for 4 them. Whether they want to compare to us Washington or not, 5 we're here to provide services for them, and nobody else. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you talked about 7 comparing us to Washington. I've read that we don't want to 8 be thought of as the same as those guys in Washington. 9 MS. UECKER: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I realize that some of you are 11 up for election next year, but I would submit to you that 12 those of you that recognize the value in your employees, and 13 vote to support that value and to give them what they 14 deserve, will be more respected by the voter than someone who 15 votes for something less than that because it's in their own 16 personal political best interest, because I think they'll 17 sense that. I think they will respect you more. I really, 18 really do. Like I said, I make no apologies for what I've 19 proposed. I have no problem, and when I go out into the 20 public and talk to them about these things, I'll look them in 21 the eye and say they deserve it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you have done that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, sure have. Like I say, "no" 24 is not a plan. It's easy to say no. You talk to a business 25 person, though, that is operating a business, and their 9-12-11 177 1 employees are critical. They know they've got to -- if they 2 want to hang onto those folks, they've got to take care of 3 them. If they don't, then their business is in the ditch. 4 They then got to set up new employees on their books. First 5 they got to find one if they can. Secondly, they got to 6 train them. And these folks got skills. They're marketable 7 and they're good skills. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You mentioned a few weeks ago 9 during one of these hearings about how county employees 10 statewide were always kind of thought of as the lower people. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want to know why that 13 is, it's 'cause of what y'all have just been talking about. 14 The State of Texas is going to issue their mandates, and 15 they're going to get a bigger and bigger portion of the 16 county funding every year. Okay? The City, whether it's 17 this city or other cities, they're going to issue their 18 deals; they're going to get a little bit bigger portion of 19 that county funding. Then the cities can take and have rate 20 increases; they can have all that kind of stuff to keep 21 attracting the better -- the higher educated, the higher paid 22 employees. Counties can only keep the better educated and 23 the better employees -- and I think this county's got some of 24 the best employees -- by trying to stay up even with those. 25 And what happens is, when we raise that and everything, then 9-12-11 178 1 people start hearing that three-letter word. It's not those 2 employees' fault. So, what does most county government do? 3 They -- they cave back into it and say, "We're not going to 4 give any taxes." Well, then your county employees, those 5 good ones, those ones you're keeping -- because there aren't 6 any tax increases, all right? Now their pay, everything 7 about that employee's worth, is dropping downhill. And 8 counties always stay the lowest paying job in city 9 government -- or in city/county government there is, because 10 the -- 11 MS. UECKER: Local government. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or the local government, 13 because it's county employees that bear that burden, whether 14 it's from the state, whether it's from the cities or anybody 15 else, every year. 16 MS. UECKER: Because we're the only government that 17 is funded solely from tax -- tax revenue and taxes on -- you 18 know, fines and courts costs. 19 MS. HARGIS: I just have to add one thing. And, 20 you know, unfortunately, the press doesn't seem to favor us 21 as well as they do the City, but having worked in both 22 positions, when I left the City, my position was given to 23 someone who had been there four months who was making 45,000. 24 He left here after two years making $94,000, so I think that 25 was a little bit of an increase. And so are all the 9-12-11 179 1 directors over there today. I know what they made; I know 2 what they make today. They all took $40,000 and $50,000 3 increases, but that doesn't come out anywhere. It only comes 4 out here. Why? Why are we the only ones that are the 5 targets? They don't talk about it; they just give it to 6 them, and they don't put it in the press. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will say, they did put that 8 one in the press. That was on the front page. 9 MS. HARGIS: They were kind of forced to put that 10 one, but nobody knew what they originally made, Jonathan. 11 They put what they made today. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm not defending them; 13 I'm just saying they did put it -- I remember an article that 14 had all of the top directors' pictures and salaries on the 15 front page of the paper. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, I did see those. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was high. 18 MS. HARGIS: But they didn't mention that they'd 19 taken, you know, a jump from 75 to 109; from 75 to 119. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with you. I'll agree 21 on that one. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jeannie, how much is the 23 proposed withholding to be cut if -- your fearless leader 24 gets his way in Washington? 25 MS. HARGIS: We talked about this this morning, and 9-12-11 180 1 I tried to read as much as I could in the paper about the 2 jobs plan. I know it's being presented today. But most of 3 the economists, even on TV, are saying it's a fairly good 4 deal. Whether it goes through or not, I don't know. The 5 employees will get another percent, which will mean they'll 6 see a little bit. But the employer's side is really good -- 7 great. It's 3 percent. It more than offsets the raise that 8 we're giving the employees today. And if he puts that into 9 place as soon as he says, we're going to start getting that 10 3 percent off of our total payroll, and that's significant. 11 And that amount of money then goes back in our fund balance 12 as well. It offsets the 6.5, and then you're only giving 13 them 3.5, plus you're putting money back in the fund balance. 14 And I do believe that some sort of bill of that sort -- you 15 know, it's a little crazy to do the Social Security system 16 that way. I don't know how it's going to repair it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes it worse. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It does make it worse. I 19 don't see -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unfunded. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's the problem right now 22 that we're having. 23 MS. HARGIS: Well, I thought the economists, 24 though, would not be behind it, but so far -- 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Stupid. 9-12-11 181 1 MS. HARGIS: -- Fox, CNN, and all of them are 2 behind what he's asking for. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: CNN I can understand. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 MS. HARGIS: Fox is worse than CNN. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's the truth. Found 7 out who she is. They never said anything like that on Fox. 8 Fox hires those guys that are so conservative, they squeak. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a whole different 11 plan. I mean, if you guys -- you guys -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "No" is not -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: "No" is not a plan. You know that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought you said it was a 17 plan. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought my nose was 19 bleeding, but it's snot. (Laughter.) Something like that. 20 Y'all -- y'all are in love with the economic development 21 program and Mr. Watson, and we have -- we have hopes of 22 meeting with him sometime real soon. I've already forgotten 23 when, I'm so excited about it. And he's going to create 24 higher -- get companies to come in here and set up, and the 25 industry side of the tax thing is fixing to explode out of 9-12-11 182 1 the top. And if we would -- you know, this is -- this is a 2 plan that is proven. Ronald Reagan lowered the tax rate and 3 created business in the long run. So, you guys can't see 4 past 2012. You guys get over here and think like I do, that 5 the long run way out there, you're creating more money than 6 we could possibly ever spend. That's the end of that. I 7 feel better about it, thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They've got a rope back here 9 in the back of the room they've been saving for those kind of 10 comments. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lower the tax rate. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that item's through, 14 Judge. Isn't it? I mean, were you planning on voting on 15 something? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not necessarily. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll keep this agenda item; 18 whenever we have a meeting, we can discuss it a little bit 19 more. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If Jody would be kind enough 21 to put that back on next time. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Under your name, of course? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Put it under my name? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Put on it your bill, right? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9-12-11 183 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That kind of tells me that maybe 2 nobody's getting beat up too bad on that, but maybe I'm 3 wrong. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Or they're responding and folks are 6 understanding, maybe. Did you want to get into the H.R.A., 7 Jonathan? Just say no. "No" is a plan on this -- in this 8 case. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't -- I mean, I 10 think it's good to bring it back. I think you have to 11 balance H.R.A. against employee increases, cost-of-living 12 adjustment, and -- and there's some costs associated with it. 13 I mean, I don't really have anything different right now to 14 go on. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like the be able to bring 17 it back in some form, but -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: When the other comes back -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but I'm not sure -- 20 again, I'm not adding anything, proposing anything that's 21 going to increase our current budget that we have, unless we 22 can find an offset somewhere. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we're going to increase, 24 I'd sure -- sure plug for volunteer fire departments to be 25 plugged in for the 100 rather than 50. You know, they -- 9-12-11 184 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Plays well. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- they're not getting paid 3 anything. They just need equipment, and they need some money 4 to operate on. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other budgetary issues, 6 gentlemen, to be discussed at this time? I guess not. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've said about all I have 8 to. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Section 4 of our 10 agenda. I think -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about Item 25? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Executive agenda issue is 25, isn't 13 it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's go to Section 4 on the 16 bills. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that we pay 20 the bills. Question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one, Judge, and it's 22 a simple deal. There you are. Under Commissioners Court, 23 Creative Awards and Trophies. That's a company, right? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A business. 9-12-11 185 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's -- yeah. 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what -- what did we buy? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 4-H. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's 4-H awards. 7 MS. HARGIS: At the end, it says "Awards for 4-H." 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can read, thank you. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I have. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That was our plaques. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioners Court 4-H'er and 13 Commissioner Court award of the adult that Commissioner 14 Overby was kind enough to present at the Gold Star banquet. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 17 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 18 hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We've got 23 some -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whole bunch of budget 25 amendments. 9-12-11 186 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Whole bunch of budget amendments. 2 It's that time of year. 3 MS. HARGIS: But look how small they are at this 4 time of the year. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it looked pretty 6 good, actually. 7 MS. HARGIS: These are budget adjustments, but 8 they're small, except for in the court system. But by and 9 large, they're little, and they're within the line items. 10 So, I mean, that means that the people still have -- except 11 for the mental health and the C.P.S. cases, we -- those are 12 the ones we're having to continually pull from the 13 Court-appointed attorneys. But the rest of them, some of 14 them are setting up -- we're moving them from the 216th. 15 Actually, you can see where the 198th is taking more cases, 16 because they're using more of their money than the 216th. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you're still estimating 19 the fund balance to be close to what you have in this other 20 stuff after all is said and done, all the bills are paid? 21 MS. HARGIS: Right. That's a cash balance. Keep 22 in mind, that's a cash balance. I'm hoping. I'm really 23 hoping it stays strong in that. That was the -- when I 24 looked at it, kind of the worst case scenario. We still will 25 have to do a budget adjustment on health insurance, but I 9-12-11 187 1 wanted to wait until the very last court date so that we make 2 sure that we have the last dollar that we'll need. I think 3 we have the money to make the adjustment within the funds 4 without using any more cash, 'cause we've already transferred 5 the cash over there. So -- but we've got to make the budget 6 adjustment, because it's -- it's over, but it's still going 7 to remain within the line items that we have today, so I 8 think that's great that we can absorb that kind of a -- an 9 increase within the budget itself; we've saved that much 10 money during the year. And we still should come out with a 11 healthy -- that isn't going to affect our cash balance on the 12 beginning. We're -- Mindy's already transferred that cash; 13 it's gone. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's over, in essence. 15 MS. HARGIS: It's already paid out. This is just 16 making the budget work. This is no cash. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we approve the budget 18 amendments. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second to approve the 21 budget amendments, as shown by the summary, Items 1 through 22 35. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-12-11 188 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. No late bills? 3 MS. HARGIS: No, unless Joy brought some over that 4 I don't know about. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 6 reports from Kerr County Payroll for August 2011; Constable, 7 Precinct 1; Constable, Precinct 4; J.P., Precinct 3; County 8 Clerk; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Environmental 9 Health; District Clerk; and Group Health Insurance reports. 10 Do I hear a motion that these reports as indicated be 11 approved as presented? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion to approve. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 15 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 16 hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Reports from 21 Commissioners in connection with their liaison or primary 22 area of assignment? Commissioner 1? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nothing. We're having lunch 24 with the Historical Commission. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to know. 9-12-11 189 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I thought I'd fill you 2 in. That's all you get to know, though. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, not at this time. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Commissioner 3? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so. I think the 7 only thing, I'm happy the airport -- we all know where we are 8 on the airport. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, we do? I see. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We didn't even do that agenda 11 item, did we? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There wasn't one. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought there was one. It 14 wasn't -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Couldn't. Didn't have time to -- to 16 agenda it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I just picked up a chair 20 on the side of the road, one of the county roads. I brought 21 it with me to the courthouse today so it could be disposed 22 of. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I missed something. What was that? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I picked up -- somebody -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's doing solid waste work. 9-12-11 190 1 (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very little trash pickup, you 3 know, on the county roads these days. I just got a 4 complaint, a chair was out there. Big old broken -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You pick it up, bring it in? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I put it in the back of the 7 pickup; I brought it to the courthouse this morning so the 8 proper people would know about that, and it would get thrown 9 in the trash. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Elected officials? 13 Department heads? Mr. John Trolinger. 14 MR. TROLINGER: I hear a common theme that the 15 public doesn't know, and I heard several people say it over 16 the course of the budget workshops. The Auditor and myself 17 have spoken about the website and how it looks. Its 18 appearance has been -- it's not super fancy. I think it's 19 utilitarian, because I'm a technician, and that's how I 20 design things. Well, the more input I get, if someone gives 21 me -- you know, I'll throw it on the website as quickly as I 22 can. Airport -- you know, General Aviation Airport of the 23 Year, throw that thing on the news headline just as quick as 24 I can. But without news to present, the website stays 25 barren, so I'd encourage anything that we can do to, you 9-12-11 191 1 know, get the news out there, any input we can get. Jeannie 2 and myself and her staff can work on that. 3 MS. HARGIS: My staff -- we're going to redesign 4 the page. We're going to get it ready for news, and then 5 we're going to start it. I don't know that we want to be the 6 owner of it forever, but we will get it started in the next 7 three months, and we'll make it look good, and to where you 8 can put what you want out there on it. So, that's one of 9 those projects outside the blocks that we don't have to do, 10 but we're going to do so we can help ourselves. Are you 11 ready for appointed officials yet? Or all elected? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, go ahead while you're there. 13 MS. HARGIS: I am leaving to go out of town. I 14 will be gone through Monday. I am going to a GASB school, 15 which I think is very necessary. I know this GASB thing 16 seems real small to y'all, but it's -- it's a massive change, 17 and if we don't get it right, we might not get our bonds, so 18 I think it's real important that I know I'm doing it right. 19 I have done one draft. And the other thing, whether it be 20 right or wrong, the other nine counties are depending on me 21 to create the template for -- for them, because I'm the 22 C.P.A. and they're not, so I'm working on it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's another source of revenue, 24 potentially, isn't it, Ms. Hargis? 25 MS. HARGIS: Can we send them a bill? 9-12-11 192 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll take care of you while 3 you're gone. 4 MS. HARGIS: Okay, thank you. Okay. But Tess will 5 be here on Friday, but she does have to go upstairs in the 6 morning. We -- they're having the hearing on our salaries in 7 the morning at 8:00, on the county auditors -- all the county 8 auditors for the 216th. And she will also be going to the 9 airport meeting on Monday. So, I will be receiving my e-mail 10 constantly, so if you need something, please just send me an 11 e-mail; I'll answer it right away. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully Tess will get a little 13 excitement in her life by going to the airport meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Get you a good cup of coffee. 15 MS. MABRY: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Sheriff? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing I have, Judge 18 is I know Friday is probably the first public hearing on the 19 -- I mean on the tax -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax rate. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the media's not here. I'm 22 not going to be able to be here on Friday. I would, and I 23 would say the same exact things that I have said. But I 24 have -- as you know, I'm kind of having to be what y'all 25 talked about this morning under caregiver-type situations, 9-12-11 193 1 and I've got to take somebody to a hospital deal in San 2 Antonio Friday morning, so I won't be here. But hopefully my 3 chief can be here during that. Hopefully he'll -- he's a 4 little bit quieter, but maybe he'll say the same things I've 5 said. That's the only reason I'm not going to be here for 6 that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I heard a number of groans 8 when you mentioned that you weren't going to be here. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I'm sure. Really upset. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of disappointed people, but 11 we'll get by. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I seriously think the public 13 that wants to have issue with any type of tax increase needs 14 to understand some things, too. I've never been accused of 15 being bashful. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, how much would a tax 17 increase cost a person per day? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A month. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, a month. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One dollar per month. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: American money? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One American money dollar. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Twelve pesos. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm in. I'm in. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One dollar. 9-12-11 194 1 MS. PIEPER: I think we can meet Friday with this 2 little flower on our head, and -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everybody carry one dollar. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Who else? 5 MR. HENNEKE: Gentlemen, briefly -- and we got more 6 information today, but the -- the attorney waiting for bar 7 results, I asked her to just briefly look at the authority of 8 the County to ban any and all burning of any kind whatsoever 9 within the county. It's similar to an issue that y'all 10 looked at two years ago when you asked the County Attorney's 11 office to research whether the burn ban could include outdoor 12 welding. There was an issue, I guess, two years ago about 13 fires -- outdoor welding. The answer then was no, that's 14 not -- you know, there's exceptions to the burn ban that are 15 prescribed by statute, and, you know, the -- I guess the 16 woman that was here Wednesday to discuss this -- I mean, I 17 don't think she understands that Rusty can't just cite 18 somebody for a criminal law if there's not a -- you know, 19 it's not provided by the penal code. So, the Medina burn 20 order that was handed out today, I'm going to look at that 21 and research it some more. It looks to me like it just fails 22 to mention one of the exceptions that are -- that's in the 23 statute, that exception being in a barrel covered by mesh. 24 But whether or not the order, you know, identifies the 25 exceptions or not, if the statute says this is the law, then 9-12-11 195 1 that's the law. And I've yet to find anything that says the 2 Commissioners Court can go beyond that in a burn ban. And 3 the issue of fireworks is a totally different statute. They 4 gave y'all authority to ban all of those. So, you know, I've 5 looked at the issue. I'm curious as to where Medina County 6 came from in doing that order. I'm going to call the County 7 Attorney this week and visit with him. But I guess my 8 reaction, without researching and talking to them, that 9 probably doesn't have any force. And being that governments 10 are creatures of habit, if there was a mechanism that would 11 allow the County to ban all and any kind of burning -- 12 burning, period, we'd be one of 254 counties in Texas that 13 would have already done it. But they haven't; it's not, and 14 I think folks just don't understand and are making a bunch of 15 arguments. But you enforce these provisions through criminal 16 penalties, and if it's not a criminal penalty, it's not 17 something y'all can create. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I got an e-mail suggesting that 19 the County Judge in Kendall County had obtained a court order 20 which prohibited people from driving their cars onto grassy 21 areas, under the theory that catalytic converters or other 22 hot devices may cause a fire. And I thought -- and, of 23 course, suggesting that Kerr County do the same. And there 24 was something else in there; I don't recall exactly what it 25 was. But I thought -- well, good luck in enforcing it, is 9-12-11 196 1 what I thought, because I knew it wasn't covered, unless the 2 Legislature did something on September 1 that suddenly we 3 have all this authority that I'm not aware of. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kimble or Kendall? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Kendall. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kendall. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Down near Comfort. You ought 8 to know where that is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They got -- their judge isn't a 10 lawyer like you, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That just proves they need 13 one. 14 MR. HENNEKE: So, thank you, gentlemen. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, now, the -- the 17 exceptions in this are still -- I mean, like fires for 18 recreation, ceremony, cooking, warmth and trash burning. 19 Hell, you can do anything. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Recreational bonfire. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what it says. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't mean you're not 24 liable. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's the burn ban in 9-12-11 197 1 this? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't mean you're liable if 3 you burn somebody's house down doing this. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I think it does too. 5 This last paragraph talks about it, fire getting away from 6 you. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What happens? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better head for the hills. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other elected officials? 11 Department heads? 12 MS. BOLIN: I've just got a comment. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. BOLIN: A couple years ago the carpet was 15 pulled out of my office, and I'm getting tile put in, and 16 this weekend Maintenance was there and moved all of the files 17 and everything out into the middle of the floor, and half of 18 it's done. The other half will be finished next week. So, 19 they're doing -- finally fixing my floor. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're a happy camper? 21 MS. BOLIN: I'm a happy camper. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's a happy thing, 23 okay. 24 MS. BOLIN: That's -- yes. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good deal. 9-12-11 198 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Unusual, but -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, anybody else? 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One thing I want to say also 5 that I forgot. I appreciate our Maintenance group helping 6 last week with the Center Point Historical Commission, 7 getting chairs and having Sara out there. Y'all did a good 8 job; had a lot of good folks -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did he jump on you about 10 that? 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, I forgot about Sara 12 being out there. 13 MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 15 MR. BOLLIER: You're welcome, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you had how many chairs? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Thirty. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Had a bunch of people out 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thirty chairs and about 150 21 people. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But the ones that were 23 needing seats had the seats. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the average age -- 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner Baldwin and I 9-12-11 199 1 can stand. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Y'all didn't sit down? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. No. Everybody was 4 seated that needed to have a seat. Thank you. 5 MR. BOLLIER: You're welcome. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Appreciate it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for that portion? 8 Okay, it is 3:01. We will go out of public or open session 9 for the purpose of going into executive session. 10 (The open session was closed at 3:01 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 11 is contained in a separate document.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does any member of the Court 14 have anything to offer -- we're back in open or public 15 session. It's 3:09. Any member of the Court have anything 16 to offer with respect to matters considered in executive or 17 closed session? Hearing nothing, anything else to come 18 before the Court? We're adjourned. 19 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:10 p.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 22 23 24 25 9-12-11 200 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of November, 8 2011. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-12-11