1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, September 26, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 26, 2011 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 6 --- Commissioners' Comments 9 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 5 renewing copier lease for Human Resources Dept. -- 6 1.2 Public Hearing regarding request to change an existing County-maintained road name from Bass 7 and Wagner Road SW to Bass Ranch Road SW 13 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final approval regarding request to change an 9 existing County-maintained road name from Bass and Wagner Road SW to Bass Ranch Road SW 14 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 11 regarding annual Courthouse Lighting Agreement with Kerrville Christmas Lighting Corporation 15 12 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 approve grant contract with Cailloux Foundation with respect to funding for Butt-Holdsworth 14 Memorial Library 20 15 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve MOU between Kerr Emergency 911 Network 16 and Kerr County relating to financial donations for radio communications support of VFDs 22 17 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 authorize County Judge to sign lease agreement from T-Mobile, once approved by County Attorney, 19 for tower in Center Point to be used for VFDs 22 20 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve tower lease agreement with Advantage 21 Communications for use by VFDs; authorize County Judge to sign same once approved by the County 22 Attorney 22 23 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve radio maintenance agreement for tower 24 radio equipment to be utilized by VFDs; authorize County Judge to sign same 22 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 26, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve expenditure of $1,899 to Advantage 4 Communications for tower ice bridge & building ground loop; $1,500 to D.W. Electric to trench & 5 install service line from meter to 8x10 building, and $750 for Intermod study at T-Mobile site in 6 Center Point for VFDs 22 7 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proclamation designating October as Domestic 8 Violence Awareness Month in Kerr County 40 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Ag Barn liaisons to work with Stock 10 Show Association to develop and incorporate required facilities into project plan adopted 11 by Commissioners Court 42 12 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to discuss preliminary function of the committee 13 to review function or facility structure of a new Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and any 14 other future timelines or committees to be formed for project 43 15 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 16 regarding the stock law 59 17 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding modifications of burn ban order 69 18 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 19 sign contract with ACES for professional services and cost estimation of package plant to treat 20 waste water 92 21 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Hill Country District Junior 22 Livestock Association regarding replacing broken windows at Ag Barn 94 23 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 approve County Auditor to perform audit of the financial records of Kerr County Emergency 25 Services District #1 and #2 for FY 2010-11 97 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) September 26, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding the Hog Out County Grants Program 97 4 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 hire a consultant/architect under Professional Services to move forward on minimum/medium inmate 6 housing facility 101 7 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve interlocal agreement between County of 8 Kerr and City of Kerrville 106 9 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve interlocal agreement with City of 10 Kerrville for airport and airport operations 109 11 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt Kerr County Fund Balance policy pursuant 12 to Governmental Accounting Standards Board Statement Number 54 119 13 4.1 Pay Bills 126 14 4.2 Budget Amendments 128 4.3 Late Bills 129 15 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 130 16 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed in Executive Session --- 17 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 accept audit report for audit of Human Resources Department (Executive Session) --- 19 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 possible purchase of real property for courthouse annex in Ingram (Executive Session) --- 21 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 22 various matters in proposed FY 2011-12 budget 132 23 --- Adjourned 178 24 25 5 1 On Monday, September 26, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, September 26th, 2011, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let's stand for a word of 13 prayer, followed by our pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 17 on a matter which is not a listed agenda item, this is your 18 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 19 If you do wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask 20 that you fill out a participation form. There's some located 21 at the rear of the room, or should be. If, for some reason, 22 you have not filled out a participation form and we get to an 23 agenda item that you wish to be heard on, get my attention in 24 some manner and I'll give you that opportunity. But right 25 now, if anyone wishes to be heard on any matter which is not 9-26-11 6 1 a listed agenda item, come forward, tell us what's on your 2 mind. If you'd come forward and give us your name and 3 address, tell us what you got to tell us. 4 MR. MALONEY: Good morning, Commissioners, Judge 5 Tinley. Eric Maloney, EMS coordinator for the Kerrville Fire 6 Department, and program administrator for the Kerr County 7 First Responder program. Actually, today I'm excited to be 8 here. The Kerrville Daily Times, over the 9/11 weekend, did 9 a fundraiser, and for that fundraiser -- I'll hand that 10 around -- they asked local businesses to donate $9.11 to put 11 their name in a remembrance of 9/11. 260 businesses 12 participated on there, and the Kerrville Daily Times, with 13 that money, donated 100 percent of the donated money to the 14 Kerr County First Responder program. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 16 MR. MALONEY: For a total check of 20 -- $2,368.60, 17 is what we were able to receive. So, that was very nice of 18 them to do that, so they gave us a huge check to cash; we 19 just haven't signed it yet. (Laughter.) But with the money 20 itself, we were able to purchase, and just put in today, two 21 AED's for the Kerr County First Responder program, and that 22 will cover almost probably about 95 percent of the cost of 23 the AED's for the program. So, I wanted to bring that to 24 y'all's attention today, so thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. As I've told 9-26-11 7 1 you just very recently, we're working on trying to obtain 2 funding so that every single one of our First Responders can 3 have the appropriate equipment, including the AED's, the 4 proper radios, and so forth, and we're getting there. 5 Sometimes it's a little slower than what we like, but we're 6 slowly getting there, and this will help out a great deal. 7 We thank you. 8 MR. MALONEY: This is wonderful. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've got to thank you for 10 EMS, too. They were out at the flu shots the at the Ag Barn 11 the other day, and that's good to see a presence of -- of the 12 service at work. I've been present at -- I know they were at 13 a fire outside of Kerr County which involved a lot of Kerr 14 County volunteer fire departments, and we appreciate that. 15 I'm glad to see that that is happening. 16 MR. MALONEY: You're very welcome. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 18 MR. MALONEY: Thank y'all. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Maloney, as I recall, when I 20 went out to the flu shot venue on -- on Wednesday that was 21 out at the Ag Barn, you guys were also using that as an 22 exercise for the purpose of -- of doing a run-through of what 23 would -- what you would do in the event of a mass 24 immunization requirement that may have been -- you may have 25 been tasked with, and I assume that went well for that 9-26-11 8 1 purpose also. But you guys had it all together out there and 2 really had it running good. How many did you end up giving 3 flu shots to? 4 MR. MALONEY: There was a total of 1,100, is what 5 was out there this year. I believe last year it was 1,700, 6 so it was down a little bit. And some of the talks with 7 H.E.B. and Peterson Regional was that the flu vaccine was 8 very -- there was no shortage this year, so it was available 9 in all your pharmacies around town, so that they expected a 10 little lower turnout on that. But it went well, and we did 11 an exercise for that, for the mass dispensing site if, for 12 some case, we had to actually vaccinate the majority of Kerr 13 County. And most of Kerr County's very familiar with that 14 site; we'd be able to utilize that. So, we kind of 15 integrated a little bit of our emergency management plan for 16 that, and it went very well for that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As Commissioner Oehler 18 indicated, and as I've previously expressed to the mayor and 19 City Manager, we do appreciate your presence out at that -- 20 the, actually, Edwards County fire just west of the Kerr 21 County line. But had we had need for you guys' services out 22 there, you were right there on the station, ready to go. 23 Otherwise, it would have been probably somewhat tenuous if 24 someone had been seriously injured or in need of your 25 assistance. We really appreciate that, and thank you for it. 9-26-11 9 1 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir, thank you. Thank y'all. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other individual wish to be 3 heard on matters which are not on the agenda? Okay, let's go 4 forward, then. Commissioner Overby, what do you have for us 5 this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge Tinley, just -- you 7 know, it's been busy out in Precinct 2, but I think one thing 8 I'd just like to let everybody know in our community this 9 week, one thing that we're going to be celebrating is our 10 Kerrville Tivy Athletic Hall of Fame on Friday night. I had 11 a chance to serve as chairman of that committee, and we're 12 going to be recognizing some longtime Kerrville folks who are 13 -- had a lot with our athletic program. Charlie Ray Dobbs, 14 Sr., is going to be brought in. Our 1949 Tivy track team 15 will be recognized, and Mike Dyal, and that event will start 16 at 6:30 at Antler Stadium on Friday. We have about 600 17 people there that normally get there early for that ceremony, 18 and we're really proud of our heritage and our history here 19 at Antler's, and so it's a good day. Come on out, enjoy it, 20 and just want to recognize those folks. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I have two things. One, 23 I think most of you are aware that we are -- you know, sent 24 in an application for the clean -- the Clean Water State 25 Revolving Funds a while back, part of the EDAP East Kerr 9-26-11 10 1 County projects, and we were ranked fairly high -- very high 2 on that. Actually, I think we're number one in the rankings. 3 And there was -- we received an invitation to respond that we 4 will probably put together an application, and I went ahead 5 and talked to Commissioner Overby about that. No commitment, 6 but we did go ahead and send that in, and we'll have until 7 the end of November to actually decide if we're going to 8 complete an application on those projects, either water or 9 wastewater. But we did rank very high on their initial 10 scoring, which was good, 'cause we're a disadvantaged 11 community, so it's -- I'm not sure of the ratio, but it's -- 12 I think it's 70/30 type fund or grant. But, anyway, I went 13 ahead and submitted that original -- the invitation response. 14 And the other thing, on October 5th, the League of Women 15 Voters is doing a forum on water. It's at Riverside Nature 16 Center from 2:00 to 4:00. They -- that's a panel discussion, 17 and I'll be at that panel discussion. Should be lots of fun. 18 I see that Mayor Wampler and City Manager Parton are also on 19 the guest list, as are representatives from U.G.R.A. and 20 Headwaters. So, we'll be talking about the drought, 21 long-term water planning, things of that nature, so I hope 22 people can join us there. That's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cooking team -- catfish 25 cooking team is going to be helping out with the Wild Game 9-26-11 11 1 dinner on this coming Saturday for 4-H at the Ag Barn. It's 2 a 4-H fundraiser, and that's been going on for quite a while. 3 Encourage people to go and participate in that. And then the 4 following Saturday, there will be another one that we're -- 5 the cooking team will be in, and that'll be at the Mountain 6 Home Volunteer Fire Department. And we'll be glad -- we're 7 always glad to help, and we're sure glad when it's over. 8 (Laughter.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the Sunrise Lions? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's just 4-H this year. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Just 4-H. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sunrise Lions are not -- not 13 involved in it this year. It's strictly 4-H. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Regarding the 18 water program that the Commissioner's talking about, if the 19 mayor's going to be there with the City Manager, I was 20 wondering if maybe we couldn't get some concessions there, 21 sell cold drinks and popcorn and -- and make a little money 22 to get us through the budget. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect that Riverside may want to 24 clean up on that, wouldn't you think? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoever's going to could 9-26-11 12 1 make some money off that thing, with those heavyweights 2 showing up. And that's all I have this morning, Judge. I'm 3 just proud to be an American and be a part of Kerr County. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And a Tivy Antler, of course. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tivy fight never dies. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There you go. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe one day in the near future, 8 you'll be considered for the Hall of Fame. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, maybe so. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Saturday morning -- this past 11 Saturday morning, I attended a -- it was a nationwide 12 webcast. It was entitled, "Doing the Right Thing." It's an 13 ethics-based program that is being initiated across the 14 entire country, and it was a four-hour presentation; went 15 from 8:30 till 12:30. It was -- it was the kickoff of the -- 16 of the nationwide effort with regard to ethics renewal in 17 this country. I was, frankly, a little disappointed in the 18 local participation, but there's still time to get involved, 19 and if you wish to look into that a little bit further, I 20 would encourage you to contact the people at the Kroc Center. 21 They'll be glad to give you the information. They're going 22 to continue to be involved in that. There will be future 23 meetings and sessions in that regard. But I think it's 24 something that's sorely needed in this country, and hopefully 25 it will gain some significant traction to move forward. 9-26-11 13 1 That's all I've got, so why don't we move forward, then, with 2 our agenda. Item Number 1 is to consider, discuss, and take 3 appropriate action on renewing the copier lease for the Human 4 Resources Department. Ms. Lantz? 5 MS. LANTZ: I'm requesting to table that issue, 6 because I have not had a chance to get the contract to Rob, 7 and John Trolinger brought up some things that need to be 8 looked at. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. LANTZ: So I'd request this just to be tabled 11 till next time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Thank you. 13 MS. LANTZ: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, I will recess the 15 Commissioners Court meeting and I will convene a public 16 hearing regarding the request to change an existing 17 County-maintained road name from Bass and Wagner Road 18 Southwest to Bass Ranch Road Southwest located in Precinct 4. 19 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:12 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 20 court, as follows:) 21 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 23 that wishes to be heard with regard to the request to change 24 an existing County-maintained road name from Bass and Wagner 25 Road Southwest to Bass Ranch Road Southwest? 9-26-11 14 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 3 close the public hearing regarding the request to change the 4 existing County-maintained road name from Bass and Wagner 5 Road Southwest to Bass Ranch Road Southwest. 6 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:13 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 7 reopened.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 10 Commissioners Court meeting and go to Item 3; consider, 11 discuss, and take appropriate action for final approval 12 regarding the request to change an existing County-maintained 13 road name from Bass and Wagner Road Southwest to Bass Ranch 14 Road Southwest, located in Precinct 4. Commissioner -- or -- 15 commissioner. I'm going to promote you. Or demote you, 16 whatever. I'm not sure how you -- how you view that. 17 MR. ODOM: I'd probably have to hide over there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Mr. Odom. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. And contrary to -- to the 20 media, A & M did not lose Saturday; we just ran out of time. 21 It was the clocks's fault; that's all it was. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 MR. ODOM: I want to make sure Commissioner Letz 24 understands that. We never lose. We just run out of time. 25 Bass and Wagner Road Southwest is an existing 9-26-11 15 1 County-maintained road on the '59 road list. It was named 2 C.C. Wagner. Mr. Willard R. Bass requested August the 8th, 3 2011, through 911 office to change the existing name of Bass 4 and Wagner Road Southwest to the requested road name of Bass 5 Ranch Road Southwest. Because the road is an existing 6 County-maintained road, it must have a public hearing, which 7 we've just completed. At this time, we ask the Court for 8 their final approval to change the existing road name of Bass 9 and Wagner Road Southwest to Bass Ranch Road Southwest, 10 Precinct 4. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 15 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 20 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Odom. We have a 9:15 22 timed item; it is that time now. Item 4, to consider, 23 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding the annual 24 courthouse lighting agreement between Kerrville Christmas 25 Lighting Corporation and Kerr County. Mr. Bond? 9-26-11 16 1 MR. BOND: Good morning, Commissioners and -- and 2 Judge. It's that time of year again. Is everybody ready for 3 Christmas? Doesn't feel like it, does it? 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's coming. 5 MR. BOND: Each year we come before the Court and 6 request permission to come onto the premises during the setup 7 and takedown time period. This year we'll begin on October 8 22nd, which is a Saturday. We'll work those four consecutive 9 Saturdays up until the lighting on November the 19th, I 10 believe is the -- is the lighting this year. During that 11 time period, we'll be putting up decorations on the 12 courthouse lawn. We want to make sure that everything's okay 13 with the Commissioners and Judge to do that. It's a 14 time-consuming process, but we need four weekends to do it. 15 You know, every year we -- we feel like we start too early, 16 but we can't start later, because otherwise we don't get done 17 in time. This agreement is pretty standard. We do this 18 every year, so it shouldn't be a surprise. Rob just 19 mentioned that he thought maybe we'd updated something last 20 year, but this was the copy I had on my computer. I don't 21 know if you guys remember anything different about it. 22 MR. HENNEKE: I can't find it -- the agreement that 23 was executed last year. I mean, of course, I don't have any 24 objections to the continued lighting, but if we could -- let 25 me find -- dig out the agreement, the one that we signed last 9-26-11 17 1 year, and just compare it to this one to make sure it's 2 current, and we can approve the agreement subject to -- to my 3 review. What Kyle has looks positively fine. 4 MR. BOND: The only other request I'll ask -- and 5 I've worked with Tim on this in the past. We've got a couple 6 new ideas this year. We're going to be doing some different 7 lighting for the big corner trees. We're going to light them 8 from underneath with LED floodlights to light the canopy. We 9 also wanted to do a different approach to the lighting in 10 front of the courthouse. Last year, we -- I don't know if 11 you guys remember; we had the spotlights that went up the 12 front. We're going to move those out into the yard on risers 13 and flood the front of the courthouse with color, and it's 14 going to be color-changing. The one issue that we have is -- 15 the challenge is that the current nighttime floodlight -- 16 safety floodlights that are out there that light the 17 courthouse on a day-to-day basis kind of drowned out that 18 color, and we wanted to work on getting a switch applied. 19 Those things are wired currently into the same 20 lights as the flagpole lights, so it makes it a little bit of 21 a challenge. We can't douse those; we need those to be lit 22 all the time. So, we wanted to figure out a way to put 23 switches on those big floods and just switch those off during 24 the season to have the colored lights, and they'll be on all 25 night long, 'cause they're LED's; they take very little 9-26-11 18 1 power. So, I thought I'd propose that to you as well, and 2 see if that's okay if we work with Tim on trying to find a 3 solution to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to switch off the 5 flagpole light? 6 MR. BOND: Not the flagpole light. We can't do 7 that, we understand. As long as that's okay, we can -- we 8 can switch it just right there at the box on those big 9 floods, and if there's a cost, we can cover the cost of doing 10 it. So, as long as the timing's okay with that, and you guys 11 are okay with that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are the big wreaths 13 going to come back? 14 MR. BOND: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those are some of the most 16 classy things. 17 MR. BOND: We've had a lot of good response to 18 them. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They really, really look 20 good. Looks a lot better than it used to. 21 MR. BOND: Each year we try to do something new. 22 We're going to finish all the LED updates too, so the power 23 consumption goes way down. We're going to rewire all the 24 tall trees with new lights this year. They got eaten up by 25 squirrels last year, so we're going to get those taken care 9-26-11 19 1 of as well. It's an ongoing challenge, but we think it's 2 going to look really pretty this year. So, that's all I've 3 got. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says under the Therefore, 5 "...holiday displays upon the above-described property 6 between the dates of October 22nd and January 14th." Does 7 that mean everything's going to be taken down by January 8 14th? 9 MR. BOND: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or -- 11 MR. BOND: It's probably going to be done the 12 weekend prior, but I always put one more in just in case we 13 don't get completely finished. Normally we take it all down 14 in one day. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Kyle, how long -- just for my 17 information, how long has that relationship been between the 18 Kerrville Lighting Corp. with the County? How long have 19 y'all been working on this together? 20 MR. BOND: I want to say better than 15 years. 21 I've been doing it for seven, and so it's -- I can't honestly 22 tell you how long it's been going on for, but a long, long 23 time. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 9-26-11 20 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for 4 approval. I assume it's on the basis that the County 5 Attorney mentioned? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to his review -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and final approval. Further 10 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of that 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Because 16 Item 5 may -- may involve some potential lengthy discourse, 17 I'm going to bypass that one for now and move on down to 18 Item 7. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 approve grant contract for the Cailloux Foundation with 20 respect to funding for the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library. 21 Commissioner Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I put this on the agenda. 23 As the Court will recall, there was a -- I guess some 24 discussion on the form or the terms in the actual agreement. 25 The County Attorney and I met with representatives of the 9-26-11 21 1 board of the Cailloux Foundation, and the -- in principal, 2 they didn't have any problem subject to changes. However, 3 the language that their board voted on is what is actually in 4 the agreement, and they felt that they really couldn't change 5 it at -- at this time. The -- and next year, if we perceive 6 this is kind of a three-year deal, I think this time, you 7 know, we can modify it a little bit. I think it is 8 important. I think some of the -- I think the concern was 9 that it -- the way it's written, it appears that we, I guess, 10 were kind of urged into entering into an EMS agreement with 11 the City of Kerrville in order to get the funding. But I 12 think it needs to be remembered that we entered into our deal 13 with City of Kerrville first, and then the grant came to us. 14 So, it's kind of -- we knew it was happening; they were 15 happening kind of simultaneously, but I don't really see that 16 this was an issue. It's a one-year grant. We can -- at our 17 option, can request it another year. So, I'll move approval 18 of the contract, and authorize County Judge to sign same. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 21 indicated. Any further question or discussion on that 22 motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your 23 right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-26-11 22 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 3 Item 9 -- actually, we've got Items 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. We've 4 got kind of a running discourse here. You want to break it 5 up into little pieces, Clay? 6 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir, I think I can probably 7 explain it all in one whack, and we can -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and collectively 9 call Items 9 through 13. Let me call those items now, and 10 then as you transition from one to the other... Item 9 is to 11 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve the 12 Memorandum of Understanding between Kerr Emergency 911 13 Network and Kerr County relating to financial donations to 14 Kerr County for radio communications support of the Kerr 15 County volunteer fire departments. Item 10 is to consider, 16 discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize the County 17 Judge to sign a lease agreement from T-Mobile, once it has 18 been approved by the County Attorney, for the tower in Center 19 Point to be used for volunteer fire departments. Item 11 is 20 to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 21 a tower lease agreement with Advantage Communications for use 22 by volunteer fire departments, and authorize County Judge to 23 sign the same once it is approved by the County Attorney. 24 Item 12 is to consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action to approve a radio maintenance agreement 9-26-11 23 1 for tower radio equipment to be utilized by volunteer fire 2 departments and authorize the County Judge to sign same. And 3 Item 13 is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 4 to approve expenditure of $1,899 to Advantage Communications 5 to be used for tower ice bridge and the building ground loop; 6 $1,500 to D.W. Electric to trench and install a service line 7 from the meter to the 8-by-10 building, and $750 for an 8 intermod study at the T-Mobile site in Center Point for 9 volunteer fire departments, for a total expenditure of 10 $4,149. Okay, run with it. 11 MR. BARTON: Good morning, gentlemen. I've been 12 before y'all one time before explaining this project. 13 We're -- we got the equipment from AACOG, just set up three 14 towers for the volunteer fire departments to use. The 15 equipment's all been purchased and delivered. We're at the 16 last part of getting everything hooked up so we can try to 17 become operational. The M.O.U. with Kerr 911 Board, the -- 18 Mr. Amerine is present if you have any questions of him. The 19 911 Board has, in the past, helped offset the -- the expenses 20 for the lease lines that the volunteer fire departments have 21 been using, two lease lines. They have agreed to join this 22 project and help offset the fees that are going to be -- that 23 come up yearly with this, such as the tower lease fees. We 24 had to guesstimate the electric fee in the Center Point 25 tower, and the maintenance -- radio maintenance agreement, to 9-26-11 24 1 the tune of about $8,800 a year. 2 Mr. Amerine did go to the board Thursday, and the 3 board did approve the expenditure of those funds. Their 4 budget year is a little bit different than our budget year, 5 in that it takes effect January 1. So, it's my understanding 6 in visiting with him Friday late that he's going to go back 7 before his board this Thursday, and he believes there won't 8 be a problem in assisting us with the three months worth of 9 funding to cover October, November, and December of this 10 current year before the -- the part they haven't approved -- 11 before next year takes effect. Is that accurate? 12 MR. AMERINE: That's correct. 13 MR. BARTON: So, this -- this M.O.U. is just 14 understanding that they don't -- they're going to donate the 15 money as funds are available. They're not committed or bound 16 to do that by any means. It's just a -- something they want 17 to do to help with the -- with the project and help with the 18 First Responders and volunteer fire departments. So, that's 19 the purpose of the M.O.U. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clay, before you go to the next 21 one, the -- the amount of the donation for the first -- for 22 this year is how much? 23 MR. BARTON: $8,800 is going to cover from January 24 1st to next January. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9-26-11 25 1 MR. BARTON: The amount that I think I came up with 2 for the next three months is -- 3 MR. AMERINE: 2,199. 4 MR. BARTON: -- 2,199. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MR. BARTON: So he's going to go back before his 7 board on Thursday to get that part taken care of, just 8 because of the overlap of budgets. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Mr. Amerine. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank your board. 13 MR. AMERINE: I will. 14 MR. BARTON: The next item on the lease agreement 15 from T-Mobile, Rob did have an opportunity to look at it, 16 graciously, over the weekend. It has a few things I need to 17 talk to him about injecting some language with. They did 18 agree to our lease for this first year of $200, which will 19 make the total only $2,400 a year, which they usually get 20 from 1,500 to 2,000 a month, so I'm glad we're able to get 21 that. There's very few towers down in the east end of the 22 county that we had to choose from, and this is going to be a 23 price that was most palatable, and something that the 911 24 board could assist us with. So, we just need to get that 25 lease agreement signed by the County Judge once we get all 9-26-11 26 1 the language approved in it. The next agenda item is going 2 to be for the tower lease agreement with Advantage 3 Communications. Dave Marrs of Advantage Communications has 4 offered us a lease to utilize one of his towers here in the 5 Kerrville area for our central site at $200 a month, or 6 $2,400 a year, and he also pays for electricity as part of 7 his lease agreement, so we'll have no extra electric fee 8 during that. And this is also a fee that's built into the -- 9 the cost that's being picked up by the 911 Board. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This agreement's a standard 11 agreement? 12 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir. I've got a few things that 13 the County Attorney wants me to get some language changed in 14 that, and then we'll -- at least it's only, like, a 5-page, 15 compared to T-Mobile's, which was probably a 30-page 16 document. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clay, on both of those two that 18 911's picking up, is that part of a donation, or part of a 19 budget -- is this a budgeted item in your budget? 20 MR. AMERINE: Is the question to me? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whoever wants to answer. 22 MR. BARTON: It is not a budget item for me. It 23 is -- it is a -- it's probably a budget item for the 911 24 budget. Or how do y'all work that? 25 MR. AMERINE: No, the way we're going to do this is 9-26-11 27 1 we're going to budget a lump sum to go to a line item in the 2 county budget, and how the County chooses to use that money 3 in support of these towers and how they pay those bills is 4 the County's business, not ours. At the end of the year, 5 when we have a better assessment of what the actual costs 6 are, and the County provides that information back to 911, 7 then in the next budgetary process we'll look at adjusting 8 that amount. But we're not going to be involved other than 9 making an annual donation -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. AMERINE: -- based on those assessments. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But for cost purposes, for purposes 13 of this agreement we're talking about now, that cost is part 14 of what you -- 15 MR. AMERINE: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- were considering as part of your 17 lump sum? 18 MR. AMERINE: We've had a budget line item in our 19 budget for several years called Discretionary Volunteer Fire 20 Department Communications, and that's -- the current expense 21 that we have, which is about $12,000, goes for supporting 22 radio towers and pagers for the volunteer fire departments. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 24 MR. BARTON: Jon, to answer your question, I did 25 talk to Jeannie, and she can set up an item in our budget -- 9-26-11 28 1 or in the county budget to which these bills are paid out of. 2 The money that comes from 911 will go into that line item, 3 and as these bills come in, she will make the necessary 4 payments out of that line item. The only thing that -- like 5 I said is, we had to guesstimate the electric fee -- electric 6 bill. So, if there's leftover money at the end of the budget 7 year, she said she can just take and roll that into next 8 year's same line item to be used for the same purpose next 9 year. Everything else ought to -- well, we will have three 10 months worth of -- no, there won't be any other money to roll 11 over other than just that, because my -- what I propose we do 12 is pay the three months in a payment for this budget year, 13 and then in January, go ahead and pay for a year's worth. 14 That way, she doesn't have to worry about monthly payments 15 for the tower leases. Just get that payment made. So, the 16 only money that will be left over in that budget -- that line 17 item is going to be just if there's money left over from the 18 electric. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeannie, is it -- this is only 20 for volunteer fire departments? 21 MR. BARTON: That's who primarily is going to be 22 utilizing it, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wonder if it makes sense to put 24 this as a line item under where all the other volunteer fire 25 departments are. Need to figure out a way to track it, 9-26-11 29 1 because it's kind of an odd deal. I mean, it sounds like 911 2 Board is committing to doing this for a long time, but we 3 have a one-year deal with them, and we have a longer-term 4 lease. So, I think we need to figure out a way to track it, 5 because if something happens and 911 can't fund it, we're 6 still obligated to fund it under the lease terms. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't you put it under tower 8 expense, or in a line item under volunteer fire departments? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something like that. It just 10 seems that we need to figure out a way to track it, that we 11 know where the money's coming in, where it's going. Doesn't 12 make that much difference. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That pretty -- pretty much 14 explains what it's being used for. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MR. BARTON: Item Number 12 is a radio maintenance 18 agreement with Advantage Communications to provide 24/7 19 coverage to repair this equipment if it should, you know, 20 have problems. That's pretty straightforward on the 21 agreement, and we need this agreement, and I think Mr. Marrs 22 has even -- that agreement specifies that he'll even put some 23 loaner equipment if we have to send something -- a repeater 24 to get fixed. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that a monthly charge for 9-26-11 30 1 a maintenance agreement? Or is it on an as-needed, and -- 2 what -- what does that say? 3 MR. BARTON: This is just a yearly amount -- yearly 4 fee. I really -- $258.33 a month, or $3,100 annually. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And what does that cover? 6 MR. BARTON: That covers Advantage Communications 7 will supply labor only for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 8 to maintain the repeater stations for central, west, and east 9 tower sites, including the three control stations located at 10 900 Clearwater Paseo -- which that should be 400; it's the 11 Sheriff's Office. The exclusions are tower work, dispatch 12 console equipment, equipment and parts. Additionally 13 included in this agreement, a loaner VHF repeater station 14 will be supplied in the event a repeater cannot be repaired 15 timely. It's just a one-day -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess the point to my 17 question is, I know from dealing with these maintenance 18 agreements in the past that whatever -- I mean, I just want 19 to make sure we're getting value; we're getting something for 20 that money, and not just saying, "Well, y'all are available," 21 but, you know, are we really paying for a service, or are we 22 just paying for kind of an insurance policy? 23 MR. BARTON: Well, if we take a lightning strike, 24 he's not going to -- they're not going to pay for equipment. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, I understand that. 9-26-11 31 1 MR. BARTON: That's going to be covered under our 2 county insurance. This just gets us people out there to try 3 to get this back online as quickly as possible. It's 4 basically just insurance to make sure you got some workmen 5 out there to -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that is going to be -- 7 that will -- that money will be spent for labor -- 8 MR. BARTON: True. Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- cost. This does not 10 include any parts. 11 MR. BARTON: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm kind of like you. I mean, 14 I don't know -- do we really need this? 15 MR. BARTON: There was -- actually, when 16 Mr. Amerine and I were first talking about this project and 17 different fees, he suggested that it might be a good idea to 18 have somebody in case this goes down, that we'd have a 19 maintenance contract built in so that we can call Dave and we 20 can get someone out there to fix these as quickly as 21 possible. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One time of crawling that 23 tower or sending people out there to even work on it to see 24 what the issue was, whether it be lightning strike, 25 electrical, it doesn't matter, is going to more than pay for 9-26-11 32 1 this equipment, just for that labor cost of doing that -- or 2 pay for this agreement. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Does not the maintenance contract 4 being in place also give you a higher priority of call 5 response time, as opposed to someone that's not on a 6 maintenance contract and that needs a similar type service? 7 MR. BARTON: It doesn't set that out, Judge, but 8 that makes sense to me that it would. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I know generally when we get into 10 some of this I.T. stuff, that's the response we get 11 frequently, that -- that those folks with maintenance 12 contracts in place have a -- have a higher priority for 13 response -- 14 MR. BARTON: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- than folks that don't have -- 16 MR. BARTON: And, Bruce, in answer to your 17 question, and Jonathan, is that yes, it's just a little 18 insurance policy. We might be able to go the year without 19 having it. It's going to be an expense that's built into the 20 -- the funds that we're receiving from the 911 Board. So, at 21 this -- this year, what we're talking about is not costing 22 the county anything to have it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 24 MR. BARTON: If the 911 Board reaches a point where 25 they're not able to continue to assist us, if we want to 9-26-11 33 1 rethink it, whether or not it's a valuable item to continue, 2 we could certainly do that, 'cause it's just a year-to-year 3 maintenance agreement. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, I just know from 5 past experience that a lot of times "maintenance contract" 6 doesn't really mean anything except that you pay the company, 7 and I'm not sure that you're really getting any value for it 8 other than -- you know, would they not come if you called 9 them and you didn't have a maintenance agreement? 10 MR. BARTON: Well, they gave us two separate 11 options. One covered -- this covered holidays, weekends, the 12 whole thing, where the other option was a cheaper option, but 13 did not cover weekends, did not cover holidays. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 MR. BARTON: It's part of a built-in deal. We went 16 for the higher priced maintenance agreement. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just as long as we're getting 18 value for it, we're getting service for the money, and it's 19 not just a -- 20 MR. BARTON: They gave us two different -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- put it in there just in 22 case. "Well, you know, we may actually work; we may not, 23 but"... 24 MR. BARTON: They gave us a cheaper version, and we 25 went for the -- the best version that they offered us at the 9-26-11 34 1 time. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 MR. BARTON: The last item that -- that we have, I 4 know when I came to y'all and asked for the funds for the 5 structural study, I told you we would have to be laying 6 electric line from the meter to the building. D.W. Electric 7 actually gave me a bid, and they called back the next day and 8 cut it by $200, and so we have $1,500 to trench it, conduit, 9 and lay the line for the electric service to the building 10 that we'll have on that site. We can't go directly to it. 11 We have to trench around the perimeter of the fence so 12 anybody else can't trench into our line. That's just 13 something T-Mobile's going to require us to do. They're also 14 requiring a grounding loop to be placed around it and hooked 15 to the tower. There again, we're kind of at their mercy on 16 what they're going to require us to use to utilize their -- 17 their tower. 18 So, D.W.'s going to trench it. As part of their 19 trenching fee, they've got a fee built in here for putting in 20 the -- the grounding loop around the building, Dave's fee. 21 Plus we have to have an ice bridge, which is a galvanized 22 structure that holds the cables from the building 8 to 10 23 feet off the ground to the tower, and that's just something 24 that they require that we have. We have it at our other 25 tower sites. This is just something we are going to have to 9-26-11 35 1 add, so for the ice bridge and the grounding loop for 2 Advantage Communications is a total of 1,899; for D.W. 3 Electric is 1,500. T-Mobile also notified me that we had to 4 do an intermod study. It's just to make sure that the 5 frequency that they're using -- the frequencies we're going 6 to be using haven't any modulation problems, issues about 7 interfering with one another. 8 Their concern was, especially since this is a 9 public safety channel, they'd want to make sure that the -- 10 nothing gets interfered with. So, that intermod study was an 11 additional fee that I'm going to have to ... I'm going to 12 have to send them that. The fee is $750, I believe -- yes. 13 So, the total amount from the county is going to be $4,149. 14 I've talked to Mr. Bollier in Maintenance. He stated that he 15 has these funds in 513-450 that could be utilized for this 16 expense if y'all approve it. And -- and in summary, 17 gentlemen, AACOG would have spent over $100,000 for 18 equipment. The 911 Board has gotten online to -- they'll be 19 spending over $8,800 a year supporting this. The total cost 20 to Kerr County at this point, if you'll approve these 21 expenditures today, will be $5,949. And these are all 22 one-time expenditures, with the exception of, you know, 23 placing it on our insurance policy in case something -- a 24 lightning strike or something. But we would have gotten 25 quite a bit of value for the volunteer fire departments for 9-26-11 36 1 very little investment. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, do you have this? 3 (Mr. Bollier nodded.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, want to go back to the 5 beginning and start making motions? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We can go back to -- to the 7 beginning. Item Number 9 dealing with the Memorandum of 8 Understanding between Kerr Emergency 911 and Kerr County 9 relating to 911's donations as funds are available, without 10 any firm commitment in support of this project. Just a 11 moment. Tim? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Judge, I just want to make sure that 13 this is going to come out of this budget, not next year's 14 budget. 15 MR. BARTON: It will come out of this year's 16 budget. 17 MR. BOLLIER: That's the only thing I request. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we're on a crash 19 course to get this thing finalized. That was one of the 20 problems with getting the lease in here; it was -- had a very 21 tight timeline to it. And so that will be the case. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, Rob, have you looked into 23 the memorandum of understanding? 24 MR. HENNEKE: Yes. It's finally -- I move that we 25 approve the memorandum of understanding. I can't speak. 9-26-11 37 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the memorandum of understanding under Agenda Item 4 1.9. Question or discussion with regard to that motion? All 5 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 10. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subject to County Attorney 11 approval of the contract form, authorize the County Judge to 12 sign lease agreement with T-Mobile. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 15 indicated with respect to the T-Mobile lease agreement. 16 Further question or discussion on that? 17 MR. HENNEKE: I've given my edits to Clay in a 18 marked-up copy. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or 21 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 9-26-11 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Let's go to 2 Item 11. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subject to County Attorney's 4 approval, authorize the County Judge to sign lease agreement 5 with Advantage Communications for the tower lease set out 6 under Agenda Item 11. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated for approval of Item 1.11. Further question or 10 discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 12? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Authorize approval -- authorize 17 the County Judge to sign one-year -- or maintenance agreement 18 with Advantage Communications for the tower radio equipment. 19 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner, I haven't seen this one 20 yet, so -- 21 MR. BARTON: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You haven't? Can't authorize 23 -- well, subject to -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to County Attorney's -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Review. 9-26-11 39 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 3 indicated for approval of Item 12, the maintenance agreement, 4 subject to County Attorney final approval. Further question 5 or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Item 13. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Authorize expenditure of a 12 total of $5,945 to come out of the Maintenance budget -- 13 MR. BOLLIER: Only 4,149. 14 MR. BARTON: 4,149. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where'd I get -- you mentioned 16 5,000. 17 MR. BARTON: That's the total amount. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 4,149. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $4,149 to come out of the 21 Maintenance budget for items listed under Agenda Item 13. 22 Got a new number; you changed it. 23 MR. BOLLIER: No. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Guess I will second again. I 25 don't hear any noise on the other end of the table. 9-26-11 40 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Go ahead and do that; let's 2 keep it rolling. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 4 approval of Item 13, an expenditure of $4,149 from 5 Maintenance Department budget to effectuate the items under 6 Agenda Item 1.13. Further question or discussion on that 7 motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Thank you, 12 sir. 13 MR. BARTON: Thank you, gentlemen. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Clay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Amerine. We 16 appreciate what your organization is doing to help us, and 17 improve the communications here in Kerr County. 18 MR. AMERINE: You're welcome. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a 9:45 item, Item 6. 20 It's just a bit past that time now. Item 6; consider, 21 discuss, and take appropriate action on proclamation 22 designating October as Domestic Violence Awareness Month here 23 in Kerr County. Ms. Lackey? Ms. Sandifer? 24 MS. SANDIFER: Hi. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us what's on your minds about 9-26-11 41 1 this. 2 MS. SANDIFER: Go right ahead. 3 MS. LACKEY: Well, basically, I don't know if y'all 4 are aware of last year's numbers or not. We served over 816 5 Kerr County residents, men and women. Children, somewhere in 6 the total of 316. That also involves KAP interviews done for 7 the forensic children that's been sexually abused and/or 8 physically abused. We consider this a fairly high number. 9 It has gone up from last year. And October is always the 10 Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and we would like for 11 y'all to make a proclamation stating that for here in Kerr 12 County. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything you'd like to add? 14 MS. SANDIFER: That's all. Yeah, she pretty much 15 -- thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I will second that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 20 approval of the proclamation designating October 2011 as 21 Domestic Violence Awareness Month in Kerr County. Any 22 question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9-26-11 42 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Thank you, 3 ladies. 4 MS. LACKEY: Thank you. 5 MS. SANDIFER: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, I did have one comment 7 before -- as y'all are leaving. Again, I thank you for being 8 here and supporting that. I do want to bring attention also, 9 there is a movie that's coming out this week called 10 "Courageous." It's a movie on family values and attitudes 11 and those things, and I know that a lot of our local churches 12 are pushing that as far as in our communities on family -- 13 family values and homes, and I think this all goes in line 14 with that. And, again, I appreciate everything that you're 15 doing, but I would like to support more families out there to 16 see those kind of movies and help our county folks. 17 MS. LACKEY: We'll make sure the women and children 18 in the shelter get to go. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you very much. 20 MS. SANDIFER: Thank you. 21 MS. LACKEY: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good thought. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 14; consider, 25 discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize the Ag Barn 9-26-11 43 1 liaisons to work with Stock Show Association to develop and 2 incorporate required facilities into project plan adopted by 3 Commissioners Court. I would note that this -- this is very 4 closely aligned apparently with Item 19, that being to 5 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to discuss the 6 preliminary function of the committee to review the function 7 or facility structure of a new Hill Country Youth Exhibit 8 Center and any other future timelines or committees to be 9 formed for this project. Commissioner Oehler, I'll let you 10 lead off. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they might be related, 12 but in my mind, they're not. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Been working quite a lot for 15 a long time with Stock Show Association, and they're -- they 16 have in the past been responsible for building most 17 everything that's out there at the facility, and I perceived 18 to them possibly doing that as we go into maybe trying to do 19 some renovation and some building out there. And I only -- I 20 feel like it is very important that we include them and ask 21 them for input on the things they need inside of the plans 22 that we've already adopted to make sure that when we move 23 forward, that we address their needs, because it is going to 24 be -- that first part of it, in my mind, is still and always 25 will be a show barn, until such time that maybe that no 9-26-11 44 1 longer happens. But I would ask that Jon and I, being the 2 liaisons, we work with them to find out what the -- what 3 needs to go into those plans, and then that way there can be 4 some estimated costs put in that when the time comes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we go a little bit 6 further on that. Bruce and I have talked about this, is that 7 the -- the plan that's on the table right now, what's left to 8 do out there is basically renovating that arena. Just the 9 arena, building a barn, and then after that we can do 10 demolition of the current hog barn. And then down the road, 11 another project will be an exhibit -- new exhibit hall. To 12 me, you know, the phases we're at right now are renovating 13 that arena and building a barn, and those are 100 percent 14 related largely to stock show. The stock show has -- I think 15 could probably get those things accomplished quicker and 16 better if we're not real involved in it. I think if we give 17 -- if they -- we work with them on a plan, and they're 18 willing to take on a lot of the fundraising and things, I 19 think that they could get some of that done through donated 20 materials, donated labor, things that we're not able to do as 21 a governmental entity. 22 There's a similar -- you know, back to when I was 23 president of Tivy Booster Club, this is how we got the -- 24 many things built for the high school, how we got the 25 concession stand built. And I think it's a -- if we're able 9-26-11 45 1 to get a -- you know, and I really brought this up as a -- to 2 get approval from the Court for Bruce and I to visit with 3 Stock Show and see if they're -- if they're willing to do it. 4 I'm not sure -- I see Bob Reeves back here. He may be, like, 5 "What are we getting ourselves into?" But, you know, to talk 6 to them, because I know there are a lot of people in the 7 community that are very supportive of the stock show, 8 probably more so than they are of the county sometimes. And 9 I think -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, most of the time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of the time. And I think 12 that they -- you know, they have fundraising capabilities 13 that we just can't tap, things they can do. And it will be 14 interesting, you know, to see -- as long as it's a plan that 15 we concur with and agree, if they're willing to tackle a lot 16 of this fundraising. And I think it also goes into, I think, 17 their concern about their long-term relationship with the 18 County. I think this would pretty much ink that deal. If 19 they help the -- you know, the construction and big 20 fundraising, that's part of our -- you know, to me, it's a 21 long-term commitment, you know, but I think this will 22 even firm that up even more on new facilities that's being 23 built. So, kind of that's the direction I'd like to go. And 24 visiting with them, Bruce and I have talked about that some, 25 and also to set the priority that the arena and the barn are 9-26-11 46 1 the next phases. I think that's consistent with what 2 Commissioner Overby's working on. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question for you. 5 If you go -- I'm all for everything you just got through 6 saying, both of you. If you go and they -- the Stock Show 7 folks agree to carry the ball, they -- you all will report 8 back as they go through it and as you get down the road, 9 report back to the Commissioners Court of the -- what's going 10 on, how many steps it's taken, how much money they're 11 raising? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, not necessarily 14 for me, but for the general public to know what's going on. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe, too, that 16 every time there's a modification made, it has to be approved 17 by this Court. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I believe they make the 21 suggestion of what needs to happen, and we -- you know, we 22 talk about it, and then we approve those changes so that 23 everybody knows what's going on as that project progresses. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I look at it as turning 25 over -- more of bringing them on as a partner. 9-26-11 47 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And letting them be able to do 3 some of the functions out there. Obviously, Maintenance is 4 going to have to be involved. I don't know if -- if Stock 5 Show wants to go forward with that, if it would take more of 6 a -- a document. We might work with the County Attorney. 7 I'm not sure. I mean, I haven't -- it's kind of new coming 8 up. Bruce and I have not -- I have talked to Bruce, talked 9 to some members of the stock show a little bit, but this is a 10 little bit kind of moving it further down that road to get 11 this thing done. We also have -- we have funds in our 12 capital budget for that. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And those funds are, you 15 know -- you know, committed to that purpose still. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, I would say 17 this, and again, I support, Commissioner Oehler, your and 18 Commissioner Letz' deal as far as liaisons for this ag 19 facility. No doubt that the -- the Junior Livestock group 20 needs to be our primary focus as we go through that. I 21 support that 110 percent. I do have some comments when we go 22 into 19. Should I wait on that till we close talking about 23 14, on the reason why that we've looked at 19? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily. If there's some 25 interplay, 19 has been called also. 9-26-11 48 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And the interplay with that 2 is just basically one of the things -- no doubt about it, 3 that the Junior Livestock group needs to be the focus and the 4 lead on that. 19 basically is just kind of giving an update. 5 What we've done is, as you remember, we looked at potentially 6 trying to move this project through -- as the economic -- 7 economic liaison for the facility, we tried to look at trying 8 to move forward with that project earlier this year. You 9 recall that we were not available to go through -- or we did 10 not become eligible this year through our E.I.C. 4B funding; 11 that was turned down for us this year. One of the comments 12 that came back through that process was the process of the 13 function and of the facility layout of the current facility 14 that we have. Part of those questions that we -- we answered 15 to E.I.C. funding was also comments that also came back from 16 the livestock folks, and our ag-related educators out in our 17 community as well, about the need to look at the function and 18 use of the facility, and the -- the awareness of trying to 19 step back as we step back with the ag facility not moving 20 forward this year with E.I.C. 21 I will tell that you I -- I don't want to give up 22 on that process as we go down the road, as we step back with 23 the ag facility. I still think that this facility and this 24 project merits E.I.C. funding, and I think that as we take a 25 step back, I think we need to take the opportunity to get 9-26-11 49 1 input from other economic partners to look at our fundraising 2 efforts to do so. So, the reason that we have the 3 organization of other committees, again, is to reach out into 4 the community to try to get other folks to look at the 5 functional use of the facility. In fact, what we're looking 6 at right now is making a couple of site visits to look at 7 other ag facilities that -- that we can look at and see how 8 that layout is done. The Junior Livestock folks are the ones 9 who made the recommendations on where we're going to be going 10 to look at some of these sites, and I appreciate that, and 11 your expertise and your group working with our Commissioners 12 is going to be huge as we move forward. 13 The reason why we're trying to organize this 14 committee, because it involves your Chamber, your C.V.B., 15 your E.I.C. representatives, all of your other partners in 16 your community, is to broaden our net for potentially 17 receiving our funds across the community, and that's one of 18 those efforts. So, to get their input -- to have some of 19 their input on some of the functions of the facility, I think 20 they might be able to bring some things that could be 21 positive to our group. But I think that we are planning to 22 look at San Angelo, I think, on October 6th to see those 23 facilities. The 20th, we're looking at the Morris Activity 24 Center, and I think hopefully out of those processes, that 25 that can be coming back to our Junior Livestock committee, 9-26-11 50 1 and through our liaisons, about making sure that our function 2 of our facility is going to be exactly what's going to be 3 what we need to have as far as moving forward. 4 We all know that we are not moving forward with any 5 ad valorem property tax consideration. There's no hotel tax 6 that's being discussed right now. And I really want to look 7 at next month -- I know as we start talking about 8 prioritizing our projects potentially next month, that we 9 come back and -- and look at this project as it evolves next 10 year and those efforts. But, Commissioner, again, I support 11 the Junior Livestock show being the folks that's heading up 12 our fundraising. I think -- or our efforts to organize it. 13 I think my main comment here was just to try to reach out to 14 broaden our resources opportunity, and to get input from 15 those other committees that are going to be probably lesser 16 of that value -- I mean, lesser of level, but I think their 17 input is critical for this project to move forward over the 18 next couple of years. So, that's the reasons part of looking 19 at that, and to see how we might move forward with that. So, 20 those are my comments. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, forgive me 22 here. I just -- I see a conflict in what's being said here 23 at the table. I'm seeing these guys down here talking 24 about -- it's not just fundraising, I don't think. You're 25 talking about getting them to look at the -- I think the 9-26-11 51 1 words "project plan" that's been adopted by the Commissioners 2 Court previously, getting stock show people to take a look at 3 that and -- and come up with some suggestions or advise us on 4 a better way or whatever. And you're asking for the same 5 thing from a different group. I just see a conflict there. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, I think the other thing 7 is -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't do both. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's what I was going to 10 just ask you. Do you want us to continue that process, 11 trying to reach out to other groups to expand the input on 12 the ag facility moving forward? How's that sound? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have any objection to 14 you doing it on your own with a committee like that. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I do have objection to 17 making that group -- allowing that group to have control over 18 what the ag -- what the stock show people and what this Court 19 adopts. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I don't think -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What the use is going to be 22 there. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whatever is built out there, 25 it will be used by the C.V.B.; it will be used by Chamber of 9-26-11 52 1 Commerce. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, what else can you do 4 with open space, other than put restrooms in it and make it 5 available for people to use and configure any way they want 6 to, the chairs and tables and -- and section it off for 7 different size groups. I don't -- I don't -- you can study 8 this stuff so much; you got to move forward and build it at 9 some point. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have any objection to 12 all the people that you have on your committee being a part 13 of trying to promote that, but I think when it comes down to 14 the -- the design and the building of it, I think it lies 15 with Stock Show Association and this Commissioners Court. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree with you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I -- I don't see a conflict. 18 Basically, your -- your request is to have the stock show 19 people, as it relates to the use of that facility, as it 20 progresses -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the design. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. The functionality, the 23 design, the layout. They're to be the lead folks when it 24 comes to how that facility is going to be laid out, designed, 25 and utilized for those purposes. 9-26-11 53 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Overby is -- he's 3 trying to broaden the group to go review these facilities, 4 not for the purpose of controlling that layout, but rather to 5 keep interest generated for the purpose of having a wider 6 group of prospective financial participants in the project. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally understand that. I 8 just want to make it clear -- very clear that the Stock Show 9 Association is the group that brought us where we are. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I sure think they need to 12 be, number one, included in the process and not be interfered 13 with, but if they -- you know, if they can have other input, 14 and they think it's a good idea, I think that's fine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You dance with who brung you, and I 16 agree with you wholeheartedly. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I still want to dance with 18 the -- the people that brung us. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree with you. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think there's 21 anything bad about that. I think it's the right thing to do, 22 and I believe we need to move forward. But I'll make a 23 motion that the liaisons, Jonathan and I, work with Stock 24 Show Association to develop whatever they think needs to be 25 incorporated into the plans, and move forward. 9-26-11 54 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's fine. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of wanted to make 3 that motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You can second it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make it. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I'll withdraw my 8 motion. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 12 second as indicated to have the two Commissioners, 3 and 4, 13 work with the Stock Show Association people for the purpose 14 of developing the layout, the design, the functionality 15 aspects, and incorporate those into the plans that have been 16 previously approved by this Court. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to clarify a little 18 bit. You're talking about the plans previously approved. 19 The plans that we have are basically a footprint of what -- 20 where the buildings -- the concept of where the buildings go, 21 and that's what, you know, we're moving forward with. We 22 have an idea of the size of barn which is probably pretty 23 close to what we need. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the next step, as I see it, 9-26-11 55 1 is to come up with a -- you know, a plan that works. And I 2 think looking at other barns is good. I think -- you know, 3 and I have no problem with input from other groups, but it's 4 going to be driven, in my mind, by the Stock Show Association 5 and their needs, and if they can tweak things that help make 6 it more usable, great. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tim and I are going to go to 8 San Angelo to that facility. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce, don't get any ideas when 10 you look at that big cover there. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. Just see how -- what the 12 layout's like. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We -- we haven't heard from Mr. 14 Reeves. He's probably a little wrung out from this past 15 weekend. They just finished the annual stock show 16 fundraiser, and I don't know what time you guys got finished 17 up. Probably Sunday morning. 18 MR. REEVES: IHOP's open 24 hours a day, so we got 19 to eat late. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Do you have any objection to 21 what we're offering to do here? 22 MR. REEVES: You know, the association is open to 23 work with -- work like we have, and I feel like we're 24 partners and we walk side by side. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 9-26-11 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments or suggestions, 2 questions with regard to the motion? All in favor of that 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 8 Item 8, a 10 o'clock timed item. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let me ask this question on 10 19, just so that I'm clear. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I want to make sure I 13 understand exactly what the Court wants me to do. Do you 14 want me to still continue to ask for input from these 15 organizations to participate in going to give input on this 16 or not? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: If not, then I'll stop that 19 effort. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it as two things. I 21 mean, I think that the -- I always thought your group is 22 really more geared towards the exhibit hall issue, because 23 that's more of a community thing. And time-wise, I don't 24 know that we -- that's a lower priority at this time, unless 25 someone's going to fund it. If someone's going to fund it, 9-26-11 57 1 you know, they can -- it kind of could happen simultaneously, 2 later than the other part of it. I mean, they kind of go 3 hand-in-hand. So, I don't mind -- you know, it's up to you 4 if you want to -- in my mind, if you want to continue to meet 5 with other groups, that's good, to have them buy in. But 6 it's -- to me, it's a separate issue. It's more input on the 7 show barn, just to make sure -- or the barn. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then look at the exhibit 10 hall. Now, I've -- I don't know if it was the Judge or -- 11 someone is looking at, you know, if you ever do an exhibit 12 hall down there, maybe relooking at how that actually fits 13 into the whole thing. It was -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: May need to be relocated. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Relocated. Maybe it would make 16 more sense to close Riverside Drive and locate it in the 17 middle of the road almost, by the park, something like that. 18 So, it will be interesting to get different ideas on that. 19 But it's a -- to me, that's a separate issue, and it doesn't 20 hurt to keep that going, because it's an expensive piece of 21 the puzzle. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Just kind of have to go on by 23 the side. Okay, I'm fine with it. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also, I will remind -- I 25 will say what my piece is with the -- whenever you're -- 9-26-11 58 1 whenever you start doing that plan, and maybe E.I.C. or some 2 other group inside the city is willing to fund that. If that 3 comes with annexation, I can guarantee you, I will vote 4 against it. I want that to be very clear up front. We don't 5 need that. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will cost more money and 8 cause a lot more problems, so I just want you to know how I 9 feel about it. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I don't know how the rest 12 of the Court feels, but -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And I would say this, out of 14 our -- just for the last comment on that. The meeting that 15 we had with this group, the exhibit center was not on 16 discussion. We were talking about fixing up what we have 17 currently and those efforts that we're focusing on. There 18 was no topic, nor was there any focus on an exhibit center at 19 this time. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have no problem with you 23 meeting with whoever you want to meet with, and get them on 24 board. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9-26-11 59 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And encourage people to -- to 2 support the project. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The entire project. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very good. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Now we're at Item 6 Number 8; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 7 regarding the stock law. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I might say something before 9 Ms. Marett gets started? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Marett is one of my 12 constituents, and she has a situation that she has brought to 13 us here. She's done a lot of research on it, as occasionally 14 we've done before, on open range and fencing and all that. 15 And she asked to get on our agenda to request that we look at 16 the county-wide, I think, stock law; grazing and stock laws 17 and open range and all that, and -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fencing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- fencing, all that, which is 20 very confusing. And, you know, I'll turn it over to 21 Ms. Marett and see what she has to say about it. 22 MS. MARETT: Good morning. Thank you for the 23 opportunity to come. My name is Linda Marett from Precinct 24 3. Our 911 address is 251 Green Oak Drive. Prior to that, 25 it was 171 Green Oak Drive, and prior to that we were one of 9-26-11 60 1 two residents on Turkey Ridge Road, but the Post Office said, 2 "Why don't we just move your mailbox out there so the mail 3 carrier doesn't have to make a turn?" I said, "That's fine." 4 So, Turkey Ridge Road is a dedicated roadway. We own both 5 sides of Turkey Ridge Road. Both sides are fenced. Both 6 sides have a gate. Occasionally, we run animals back and 7 forth; about 52 acres on one side, 58 acres on the other 8 side. I am a dedicated, serious goat raiser, and I am coming 9 to the Court today to get more information about if we are a 10 fence-in or a fence-out county. And the livestock law that I 11 could find was dated 1913, and it was voted 54 to zero to 12 keep livestock contained. That would be horses, donkeys, 13 mules, cattle. No mention of sheep or goats. So, my 14 neighbor last year called and said that my donkeys and goats 15 were eating over on his property. They had crashed through 16 my fence, and they were eating deer blocks on the easement. 17 So I said, "Well, when you get your fence up, they won't be 18 down here. And I don't think you're supposed to hunt on a 19 roadway, so you need to move your deer blocks and your 20 hunting equipment." 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet that went over big. 22 MS. MARETT: Oh, he -- I'm sure I'm one of his best 23 fans. Well, in checking with Mr. Leslie, he says no, the 24 easement shall remain open, and you just need to get your 25 fence back in order. But in checking further, his attorney 9-26-11 61 1 writes me a hot letter that says I am required to keep the 2 easement gate closed. Next week, I am paying for road work 3 done on these easements. Never since 1976 have I requested 4 or had road work done on both easements. I maintain them. 5 So, when I have this road work done, I expect the road people 6 to get the gate open, leave it open, and do their work. So, 7 I need to know, are we a fence-in or fence-out? And would it 8 be possible to add sheep and goats -- actually, all livestock 9 should be contained, whether it's a show goat or my darling 10 goats that I love. I don't want them out in harm's way. I 11 don't want Janie to have to go pick them up. 12 AUDIENCE: She'll be picking those up. 13 MS. MARETT: She'll be picking them up and charging 14 me a fortune. So, that's the direction that I need some help 15 on, and I need clarification about this 60-foot roadway. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does anybody access -- 17 MS. MARETT: I need some help. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issue with the livestock 19 or the stock law -- and this has been researched by prior 20 County Attorneys, even prior to Rob or myself and prior 21 officers in our department. There are sections in Kerr 22 County, whether you're in Precinct 4 or whether you're in 23 Precinct 3, that do -- are still under the open range, where 24 you have to fence out, not fence in. The problem is, when 25 you look at those -- and they even go farther back than what 9-26-11 62 1 you have. I have some that go back to the 1800's. They say 2 it's by this corner post, wherever it was back in the 1800's, 3 up to this section, and so many feet this way. There is no 4 way that I can determine, nor could the prior County 5 Attorneys determine where these boundaries are any more. 6 What the Cattle Raisers Association -- and I talked 7 about several years ago that the only solution to this that 8 we were ever able -- ever able to come up with is this county 9 is one of the very few in the state that still has any part 10 that's open. Most other counties have -- have had on their 11 ballot and did one stock law election county-wide that closed 12 it county-wide. And I think that is the only solution we're 13 going to see, or that I've seen in over 30 years that's 14 plausible to be able to do this. It's going to have to be 15 put on a ballot, list the type of animals that you can -- it 16 can pertain to, and have a county-wide election to close it 17 county-wide. I don't think that anybody can really try and 18 figure out what all those metes and bounds and where they 19 were back in the 1800's compared to now. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's, I think, the 21 direction we need to go. It's not something we can do under 22 the agenda item today. I think that part of the problem can 23 be solved. Rob, do you have -- 24 MR. HENNEKE: Well, the Sheriff's a good lawyer, 25 and he did a good job of summarizing that issue. The other 9-26-11 63 1 thing I want to say is, of course, I visited with Ms. Marett. 2 I know that you have, too. Kerr County is not going to 3 interject in a civil dispute between property owners. She 4 mentioned Mr. Leslie. I understand that the other property 5 owner has an attorney, and the fight between herself and her 6 neighbor is not one that we're going to weigh-in on. And 7 whether Kerr County -- the area involving her property is a 8 fence-in or fence-out area, which I do agree with the 9 Sheriff; you know, you had several elections about 80, 100 10 years ago, and it depends on where the precinct was at the 11 time as to which areas are affected by that election. And if 12 Kerr County wants to do a county-wide, you know, ballot 13 referendum, we could get that put on the November 2012 14 ballot, and glad to work on that. But, you know, 15 Ms. Marett's asking for some -- some direction, and I would 16 suggest that, you know, the direction be clear that while we 17 may look at a county-wide stock law, it's not going to 18 resolve the dispute between herself and her neighbor, and 19 that's a civil matter that needs to be -- as I visited with 20 you on, that needs to be resolved between herself, her 21 attorneys, and her neighbor and his attorney. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And we've had that 23 discussion. But, Jody, why don't we put it on our next 24 agenda so we can start working towards getting it on in 2012. 25 It's something that needs to be done. 9-26-11 64 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's long overdue. We've had 2 this discussion I don't know how many times. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About once or twice a year, 4 open range issues come up, and this is -- you know, we really 5 need to just put it to bed. 6 MS. MARETT: Well, these were the copies of your 7 '08 meeting, but even with my trifocals, I could not read 8 them. So, I don't know; perhaps something was discussed in 9 '08. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what happened was we 11 changed county attorneys. (Laughter.) 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly what happened. 13 MS. MARETT: Okay. Well, just one final question. 14 A dedicated roadway easement, roadway 60 feet wide, it is -- 15 the purpose of that is for vehicle use, for people to repair 16 their fences. I have no other way to get to the bottom of my 17 property without using that easement. Rather than get into a 18 legal tangle, it would be much cheaper for me to pay 19 Mr. Allerkamp to run a three-strand barbed wire, which I can 20 certainly afford to do, on the 60-foot line, and that 21 eliminates the problem. He is fenced in; he gets a free 22 fence, and I have the satisfaction to know that that easement 23 will remain open. Because if he runs his animals on that 24 easement without me protesting it, he will claim that that 25 easement just belongs to him because he's used it so long. 9-26-11 65 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- we can't really 2 respond to that, Ms. Marett. 3 MS. MARETT: What can you respond to? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That the stock show -- I mean 5 stock laws, we can address that issue of it. But as we've 6 discussed, the -- the use of that easement and the ownership 7 of that easement is something that is just -- it's not a 8 County-maintained road, so it's not a county -- 9 MS. MARETT: It would never be a County-maintained 10 road. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MS. MARETT: I mean, that would be a horrible 13 misuse of county money for two owners, or even five owners. 14 If I can just get that one rock dynamited out, we're good to 15 go. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, like I say, it's 17 -- like the County Attorney said, it's something that, you 18 know, you're going to have to work out with your neighbor, 19 hopefully without litigation. But, you know, that's -- if 20 the lawyers are involved, that's what -- you know, the only 21 way we can -- or you can solve that issue. The open range 22 issue is something that we can take care of, and we'll put it 23 out on our next agenda to address that part of it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: For purposes of information, 25 Ms. Marett, the easement road that you're speaking of, is 9-26-11 66 1 that Indian Mound? 2 MS. MARETT: Yes, sir, it is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. MARETT: Yes, sir, it is. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I see a piece of Turkey 6 Ridge, but, of course, that -- you're on both sides of that. 7 MS. MARETT: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm assuming when you come 10 back and talk about it next time, we're talking about 11 county-wide. We're not talking about -- is this particular 12 section one of those areas that's -- that at one time was 13 open range? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This area appears -- 15 MR. HENNEKE: You'd have to go back and have 16 somebody survey precinct boundaries back in 1917 to figure 17 out if this falls within the area that was encompassed by 18 election. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Assuming this is the election 20 Ms. Marett read about or talked about, and the boundary's 21 still -- Precinct 3 at the time, and still in Precinct 3, 22 sheep and goats are free range, so they're not required to be 23 fenced, if that's -- 24 MS. MARETT: That is correct, yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If that's -- she's exactly 9-26-11 67 1 correct. And that's the way quite a few of the open range 2 are, that sheep and goats are not -- 3 AUDIENCE: Is that what it means, sir? You just 4 turn your goats loose? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, certain areas were 6 different, and then the boundaries you'll never find out. 7 Just like Jonathan said, it just all needs to be cleaned up 8 with a county-wide stock law election. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have the same problem in 10 areas out there that are under the same rule that y'all are 11 talking about. Not the entire precinct, but parts of it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. There's an area out 13 on Indian Creek where I think we got close to actually 14 identifying the area at one time, but it's just -- the whole 15 thing needs to be cleaned up. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There were some elections back 17 in the 1800's, some in, like, 1918. 18 MS. MARETT: 1913. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some in the 1940's that 20 changed. I've got a file that's three inches thick covering 21 all of those, and it just needs to be cleaned up. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only way it's going -- 23 the public has to vote. That is the only way that we'll ever 24 clean this up. And it should be done. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9-26-11 68 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't imagine the public 2 and the majority of them voting to let everything run free. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't try it in my 4 neighborhood. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not out in my area. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that was fun. Thank 7 you. 8 MS. MARETT: You think I'm good to go on my three 9 strands of barbed wire? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ma'am, I don't speak good 11 English. I don't -- (Laughter.) 12 AUDIENCE: No comprende? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No savvy. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Marett, we're just not 15 going to give you an opinion on that, I'm sorry. 16 MS. MARETT: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to visit with your 18 attorney. And -- 19 MS. MARETT: Judge Tinley, do you have a thought 20 for me? 21 MR. BOLLIER: She's going to go around the table. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you provided your attorney with 23 all the information that you've provided us? 24 MS. MERRITT: Yes, sir, I have. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've hired that attorney for 9-26-11 69 1 that purpose. I recommend that you -- you follow his 2 advice -- his or her advice. 3 MS. MARETT: Okay. And I hope I do see the stock 4 law on the agenda -- I mean on the ballot. That would be a 5 good thing. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that would be, and I 7 appreciate you bringing that up to our attention again, 8 because it slipped through the cracks. 9 MS. MARETT: Thank you very much. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, ma'am. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does she have milk goats? 14 Or -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, just goats. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those big old -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Spanish goats. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 15; consider, 20 discuss, take appropriate action regarding modifications of 21 the burn ban order. There's another nice little topic. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Oehler? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Air it all out while we're 25 doing it this morning. This seems to be my day. But I've 9-26-11 70 1 gotten -- I've had a lot of calls and a lot of e-mails 2 regarding what we did the other day, and it's -- it's pretty 3 restrictive, and there are some that pointed out things to me 4 that I had not thought about until after the fact. And I'm 5 sure some of y'all have gotten some input from your 6 constituents as well. And I haven't had anybody that I felt 7 like that was trying to skirt any -- any rules. They just 8 couldn't understand why we would restrict some things that 9 appear to be restricted, such as gas grills and gas stoves, I 10 guess, how they got thrown in there. For instance, the Boy 11 Scout ranch, Bear Creek, called and said they have been using 12 propane burners all summer long because they wouldn't allow 13 the kids to have campfires. And they have something like 600 14 people coming, boys, here shortly and through the fall, and 15 if they can't use propane burners, they're going to have to 16 have cold cuts, and they didn't think that was, you know, 17 really necessary. A lot of people would probably cancel out, 18 because that's part of, you know, their training in Boy 19 Scouts. 20 So, anyway, that's just one example. And, of 21 course, I had a church that called and said, "Well, we're 22 having our annual barbecue." And the guy that was going to 23 do the cooking lives out in the country; he doesn't live in 24 the city. And what -- how the heck does that work? I said, 25 "I guess you're going to have to move it inside the city." 9-26-11 71 1 So, I don't know. Rob -- Rob and I talked Friday for quite a 2 while, and I'd like for him to kind of explain his side of 3 what we've done, and then try to come to some kind of a 4 resolution to what -- what this all means, and what can be 5 done and what can't be done. 6 MR. HENNEKE: Gentlemen, it would be impossible for 7 this Court to draft an order that covers every possible safe 8 scenario while conclusively excluding any dangerous 9 hypothetical. You know, for folks that want to exploit an 10 exception or a loophole, want to argue, want to, you know, 11 act dangerously and then try to avoid being responsible for 12 dangerous conduct, the more effort to -- to write something, 13 the more difficult it's going to be for law enforcement to 14 enforce the order and for the County Attorney's office to 15 prosecute the order. You know, I think that, you know, Local 16 Government Code 352.081, you know, was enacted for a reason, 17 and the order that the Court has adopted is narrowly tailored 18 to track that statute. And I've told people that have come 19 to me with a myriad of hypotheticals about, "What if I did 20 this?" or, "What if I did that?" or, "What if I do this? 21 Does this count as outdoor burning? Is this allowed? Is 22 this permitted?" And I can't, you know, address all of them. 23 I'm sure that you Commissioners have gotten a whole lot more 24 than I have. 25 My advice to them has been, just as with any other 9-26-11 72 1 criminal -- criminal provision, if you have questions about a 2 legal issue, you need to consult a private attorney, but that 3 my advice to you is to err on the side of caution. And I 4 would be opposed to any further revisions or modifications of 5 the order. I think the order tracks the statute, and I 6 believe what the order does and what this Court has done 7 gives the ability for the Sheriff's Office and other law 8 enforcement to take necessary steps to address dangerous 9 behavior, and gives, furthermore, the County Attorney's 10 office, being the prosecutor of Class C misdemeanors, the 11 ability to prosecute dangerous behavior. And just as with 12 any other criminal or any other statute provision enforceable 13 by criminal penalties, this Court and this community relies 14 upon the discretion and good judgment of the Sheriff and his 15 agency, and the County Attorney's office and -- and my office 16 to use that discretion in, you know, how the criminal 17 penalties and provisions are enforced, how they're decided. 18 I did check with the Sheriff's Office on Friday 19 afternoon, trying to find out how many hundreds, if not 20 thousands, of citations have been issued last week since the 21 order went into place, and according to Mr. Hill in Rusty's 22 office, they had two complaints. They had one woman who had 23 just a fire burning on the ground, you know, uncontrolled 24 ground fire, and they gave her a citation, as I believe they 25 should have. And they had someone else who was burning trash 9-26-11 73 1 in a barrel, hadn't heard about the removal of that 2 exception, and I think that guy willingly put out his fire. 3 He apologized. He was given a warning. So, you know, what 4 this provision -- what this order allows to happen, this 5 allows law enforcement to respond to a dangerous situation 6 and to take appropriate action, which I think is, first and 7 foremost, what's needed. And just as with, you know, 8 speeding, littering, and any kind of criminal-type activity, 9 but particularly the type of Class C offenses that are more 10 regulatory, we already give that discretion to them. They 11 already exercise their best judgment, and I don't think this 12 should be treated any differently. 13 So, I understand folks' concerns. I'm not going to 14 get up here and say you can do this or you can't do that, 15 because no hypothetical ever fits into one scenario. But 16 I -- you know, if someone -- if the Sheriff's Office has to 17 respond to a dangerous situation, you know, I don't want 18 those folks arguing with them that, you know, what they're 19 trying to do fits into, you know, something that's not 20 provided for by statute, and certainly refusing to -- you 21 know, to comply because of some kind of argument or 22 technicality or loophole. So, I think that's where we end. 23 I certainly am not going to give an opinion on any fact 24 pattern. Like I said, if you have a question about what the 25 order means, whether you're a Boy Scout camp or whether 9-26-11 74 1 you're someone cooking a hamburger on your back porch, you 2 know, underneath your covered awning, if you have a question, 3 consult a private attorney. Seek some guidance from them, 4 but just be safe and careful, and err on the side of caution. 5 So, I'm glad to take any questions on that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that I have any 7 questions. I know that your view is from a law enforcement 8 standpoint, and my view is too. However, I also have the 9 desire to meet the needs of the public. I'm not in favor of 10 allowing people to build fires and shovel their coals into a 11 barbecue pit, you know, do this big cooking thing, but I'm 12 not opposed -- I just don't -- I don't see the danger in gas 13 -- what do you call those things? 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Propane. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Propane. Is that what you 16 call it? I don't -- I don't know of anybody in their right 17 mind that would use those things; that's not cooking. But I 18 just -- I don't see the danger in that. To me, if we allowed 19 propane cooking, then that would meet the needs of a lot of 20 these -- a lot of these issues that Bruce has brought up, and 21 just about all the phone calls I've had, actually. So, you 22 know, I just want to throw that out, that if -- I think that 23 there's more to it from our point -- from my side of the 24 table than law enforcement. I understand -- I wouldn't want 25 -- I wouldn't want Rusty's people running hot to a fire, and 9-26-11 75 1 it's some guy out there cooking with a propane tank or 2 whatever the hell those things are. Propane? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Propane. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, certainly, the Sheriff's 5 Office, you know, don't have the time or resources to be 6 doing backyard checks on every house or camp in Kerr County. 7 And, you know, if -- you know, if there's -- after they've 8 consulted with their attorney, or if there's groups that have 9 questions, I think that, you know, maybe conversations with 10 the local volunteer fire department or conversations with the 11 Sheriff's Office on a case-by-case basis may be more 12 appropriate than writing in some kind of exception and then 13 having to argue or fight over it later. There's nothing in 14 the order that speaks to propane gas grilling. There's 15 nothing in the Local Government Code under 352.081 that 16 speaks to local gas grilling. And, like I said -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying that we can't 18 -- we couldn't make gas an exception? 19 MR. HENNEKE: I think that the statute does give 20 the County and the Commissioners Court discretion to, you 21 know, carve out exceptions. But then comes, you know, the 22 interpretation and enforcement of that. And the more this 23 Court tries to draft language to meet some kind of 24 hypothetical, the more difficult it'll be for law enforcement 25 and for the prosecutor to enforce people that try exploit 9-26-11 76 1 those provisions. And, you know, if it's clear-cut, we can 2 enforce it. Like I said, I think the deference ought to be 3 given to relying upon the good judgment of -- of law 4 enforcement and how they address situations, and how they 5 enforce this and other provisions. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rob, before Rusty starts, I 7 have a question. I'm hoping we're going to get some rain, 8 and we're going to -- 9 MR. HENNEKE: Absolutely. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- have a -- this -- yeah, this 11 burn ban, I mean, it's the burn ban now. What are we going 12 to do? We're going to have to come up with an exception, the 13 way we've redone the burn ban order now, to address normal 14 drought times as opposed to exceptional drought times. I 15 mean, 'cause the burn ban is the burn ban right now. And 16 right now, whenever we put the burn ban in effect, it's 17 either -- it's going to include no outdoor barbecuing, or -- 18 or there's no exceptions at all. So, I think we've got to 19 figure out a way to have a Tier 1, Tier 2 burn ban order 20 that -- you know, in extreme situations like we're in right 21 now, and then a -- a more relaxed burn ban thing. Because, I 22 mean, otherwise, you know, I don't like burn bans to start 23 with, but I won't vote for burn bans. 24 MR. HENNEKE: We can discuss that later. Before I 25 give the Sheriff a turn, let me just jump in and say real 9-26-11 77 1 quick, you know, we talk about these -- these assumptions of 2 things that are permitted or not permitted, and I don't know, 3 you know, where necessarily the -- the authority on that 4 goes. I'm certainly not going to take the position, because 5 I'm put in the position of having to prosecute these down the 6 road, but, you know, by saying you can do this stuff or you 7 can't do this stuff. I think as Commissioners, you're 8 interpreting what your thoughts on the order are. And, you 9 know, I certainly wouldn't want that to be construed as any 10 kind of verbal modification of the order. The order says 11 what it says, and if folks have a question, then, you know, 12 they need to rely on professional assistance in doing that. 13 And I don't mean to be vague or -- or obtuse, but there's so 14 many different ways that the same thing can be done. Some 15 things are safe; some things aren't safe. And we're just -- 16 I'm trying not to give anyone a catch-all permission to go do 17 some kind of activity that, in the way that those people may 18 do it, wouldn't be safe. Others might be. Puts me in a 19 tough position, but I don't think that we should come out and 20 say anything more than what's in the order. The order tracks 21 the statute, and the order speaks for itself. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, I can understand your -- 23 your position. The key element of what you're speaking to is 24 dangerousness, risk. Just like when the Sheriff is working 25 traffic, you know, if somebody's -- somebody's doing five 9-26-11 78 1 miles over the speed limit, why, technically, it's above the 2 posted speed limit; there's a possibility of being cited. If 3 traffic's light, conditions are clear, okay, that's one 4 thing. And if he's going 25 miles over the speed limit, 5 dodging in and out of traffic, that creates risk and danger. 6 I see where you're coming from there. On the other hand, 7 from the standpoint of the public that is wanting some sort 8 of reasonable guidance without bringing up their lawyer and 9 starting the meter running, they -- they want some reasonable 10 assurance that what they're doing is -- is probably 11 permissible and that they won't be called to task for it. 12 I think what's being suggested is that outdoor 13 cooking utilizing gas or propane under controlled 14 circumstances might be a reasonable exception. And I think 15 the Sheriff sees that he's been -- he's been put in the 16 middle, and I'm sure that's one of his concerns. And even if 17 you have an exception such as that, if they've got an 18 unattended propane fire and no reasonable way of -- of 19 getting control of it if it does get out of control, on the 20 on one hand, as opposed to someone's cooking outdoors with 21 some sort of gas fire device, and they've got the water 22 source nearby, fire extinguisher nearby, that's certainly 23 going to give his officers a range of comfort, I think, that 24 would go the other direction. But we got to figure out a 25 balance. I can certainly understand from your standpoint if 9-26-11 79 1 the Sheriff cites someone and describes circumstances to you 2 that are clearly dangerous, you have an obligation to protect 3 the public and to pursue prosecution. But on the other hand, 4 we've got to give the public some idea of -- of what they can 5 do if they use good sense and practice good safety habits. 6 You know, and so I think we need to find some balance here. 7 MR. HENNEKE: My recommendation on that balance, 8 Judge, is that we encourage the public to, ahead of time, you 9 know, contact the, you know, volunteer fire department and/or 10 the Sheriff's Office in their area to -- you know, I'm not 11 going to give permission to violate the law. You can't do 12 that, of course, but to, you know, engage the discretion as 13 to, you know, some kind of safeguards specific to that, that 14 wouldn't involve some kind of boilerplate, you know, 15 county-wide exception that we might try to craft for them to 16 the order. I think that's a whole lot safer if, you know, 17 that happens on a case-by-case basis, you know, involving 18 that specific activity, that specific function and specific 19 guidance from the firefighters and from law enforcement. To 20 me, that would be a successful way of addressing that. I'll 21 let you -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I differ a little bit from Rob 23 on the law enforcement end. I think it is our job as law 24 enforcement to enforce whatever laws we have. We do have 25 some discretion; three miles an hour over the speed limit, 9-26-11 80 1 five, and, you know, conditions and hazards. But this county 2 is a major hunting area, and we're fixing to have hunters 3 coming in all over everywhere. And if we just draw a strict 4 black and white, my guys are going to be put in a position 5 all the time of -- of trying to enforce this zero tolerance 6 deal, which is going to put them in a bad predicament. I 7 think we've got to give, whether it's your backyard 8 barbecuer, whether it's that hunter in a hunting camp, some 9 type of alternative to do it as safely as they can. And I 10 think an exception of gas grills -- and word it just like 11 that. "Gas grills" would give them that -- that capability 12 of being able to be in compliance. 13 Everybody knows if they mess up and it gets away 14 from anyone, they're liable for it. Nobody's going to change 15 that liability on these people. But you're going to have 16 hunters coming in; you're going to have people at these 17 functions. They're going to do something. I had one say, 18 "Well, I'll just pull my gas grill inside my garage, because 19 then I'm indoors." Okay? Not very smart, but that's what 20 you're going to end up doing. I'll pull it inside our 21 hunting cabin. I'll pull it inside this lean-to, or I'm 22 going to hide it by building a dome over it, or -- so the 23 smoke doesn't show. We're going to create a bigger hazard if 24 we're not careful. And I -- personally, I think if it's just 25 limited as an exception, along with the other ones that are 9-26-11 81 1 by statute, to gas grill, it's pretty obvious to be able to 2 tell whether or not that's going to be a gas grill, and it's 3 pretty easy to enforce that type of exception to it, and I 4 don't see a problem with that. 5 MR. HENNEKE: And I would just -- I'll follow up. 6 I want to make it clear, I'm certainly not advocating banning 7 outdoor grilling in Kerr County or Texas, but I guess what I 8 would point out to you gentlemen is -- is if you look at the 9 orders of Medina County, Gillespie County, Bandera County 10 that I provided y'all with, I would be shocked if there 11 hadn't been a hamburger cooked outdoors in those counties 12 this summer. But none of those counties have needed to adopt 13 any specific, you know, language such as this, because I 14 think what they've done is they've just relied upon, you 15 know, the discretion -- left it to law enforcement to have 16 the discretion of enforcing the statute. I understand where 17 Rusty's coming from, but I'd point to those examples. And 18 however y'all see fit to do it, I'm certainly not advocating 19 a position, but I just want to be able to back up the order 20 if we have to, if something dangerous happens and -- and law 21 enforcement has to get involved. So, thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other thoughts with regard to 23 the subject at hand, Commissioners? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go right ahead. 9-26-11 82 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate Rob -- Rob's 2 position, but I don't agree with it. I mean, I think -- even 3 though it may be making it a little more cloudy, I think we 4 have a lot of people that truly want to follow the law. I've 5 had a lot of -- and the calls that I had from people, no one 6 was upset. They thought it was a little bit unreasonable, 7 and they want to try to abide by it. And I just think we 8 need to exempt gas grilling with propane in enclosed -- don't 9 even say that. Like the Boy Scouts. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Self-contained. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, if that's your 12 motion, I'll second that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 14 exempt from the burn ban outdoor cooking with the use of 15 propane in proper enclosures. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Oh, yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was those last words? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Proper enclosures. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. What's a proper 20 enclosure? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A barbecue pit. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Proper self-contained units. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I had a guy call me 25 the other day that had a -- had a little room about the size 9-26-11 83 1 of this area right here with four walls, concrete floor, and 2 a roof, with a barbecue pit sitting in the middle of it. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He said, "Can I cook?" I 5 said, "Sure, you're indoors." You know, you're indoors; 6 you're not outdoors. So, you know, we do have those people. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather have people cooking 8 with their propane grill outdoors than in their house. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would too. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that was my motion. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You want to restate it so we 13 can -- 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion that we exempt 16 from our current burn barn order outdoor cooking with propane 17 grills. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Gas grills. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, you have a -- I see you 20 wincing on my right side. And that also -- that will mean 21 also there's a current exclusion for commercial 22 establishments as well, and that would be maintained. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somehow -- somehow, I'd like 24 to see us get into that the self-contained smokers, barbecue 25 pits, whatever, that are -- you know, where you're not 9-26-11 84 1 having -- the danger to me is fires on the ground. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are the ones that are going 4 to -- or in barrels that are not really -- just open-top 5 barrels. If you just put a piece of expanded metal, the 6 sparks still get -- and fires on the ground is where the real 7 problem, in my mind, is. I don't know how you -- how you put 8 that into what you -- but that, to me, is what we're trying 9 to keep people from doing, is having, you know, campfires and 10 burn barrels with paper and stuff flying out with the 11 cinders, and people burning brush piles and that sort of 12 thing that aren't contained. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Rob's talking about the 14 officers' interpretation and officers' discretion. I think 15 it can be very simple. Just say "gas grills," and the 16 officers have enough common sense in interpretation to be 17 able to figure out what they're talking about and whether or 18 not it's going to fit or be a danger or be a defense to their 19 prosecution. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't get where Bruce 21 wants to go totally. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just don't -- the thing is, 23 nowadays we have -- most people have these, you know, 24 barbecue pits that have, like, a fire box on the end of them, 25 and they put wood in the end of them and they -- when they 9-26-11 85 1 burn -- I mean, and they're closed up. There's no sparks 2 coming out of them. You're getting the heat, the smoke going 3 through the pit. All that comes out of it is smoke. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there is sparks come out 5 when they open that end to put more -- more wood back in. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very little. Whenever the 7 lid's closed, you got a draft going through. Rusty, I've 8 cooked more barbecue in my life... (Laughter.) 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I understand that. Fried more 10 fish, too. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is something I do know 12 something about, believe me. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Caught you at a subject you're very 15 familiar with. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I just started a long, 17 long time ago. I don't know that I've ever -- I've created a 18 fire in other ways, but not by barbecuing. A dangerous 19 situation. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No one seconded mine, so you 21 make one. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Overby did. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, you were still commenting 24 about -- you retracted that and you were going to add to it. 25 I will say that, like the folks out in Center Point last 9-26-11 86 1 week, I had a couple of functions going on out there that -- 2 we had a family reunion and we had a fundraiser event out 3 there. And I will say this; that both groups were -- 4 understood the unprecedented times that we're in. I mean, I 5 did have a lot of phone calls. My phone lit up pretty good 6 last week, but they all managed to do what they needed to do. 7 And I went out and attended one of those events myself, and 8 the food was great; they made other arrangements to do it. 9 And I told them that one thing that we're doing is something 10 that we've never had to do to this extreme, and that we're 11 evaluating and taking a look at it today. So, I do 12 appreciate them following what we had in place last week, and 13 I think common sense is what we're asking for folks to 14 consider. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, I'm sitting 16 here doing this, and Rob is right; we shouldn't try to make 17 too long of a list of exemptions. What we ought to do is ban 18 certain things, and the rest is open for interpretation. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty's really having a 20 problem. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, what we're 22 really trying to stop, in my mind, is people building fires 23 on the ground, and we're trying to stop people from burning 24 in barrels. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 9-26-11 87 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those are the things that I 2 see where there's an issue. You know, brush piles and things 3 like that. I don't see the problems in self-contained 4 cooking apparatuses, whether they be gas or wood or charcoal, 5 as long as they're self-contained and people aren't building 6 fires on the on ground. That's where I see the problem. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The worst fire in this county 8 was started by a charcoal grill, okay, that the sparks flew 9 out of. Charcoal -- the gas grill, you don't have -- if you 10 got one that a lot of people have, that they went and bought 11 a cheap one somewhere, and it's already got a hole through 12 the bottom, you're going to have all that mess, and it falls 13 out. A gas grill, you just don't have those issues with 14 them. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine does. It gets -- drips 16 out the bottom; the flames come down. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get Bruce to show you how. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway, this -- we can go on 19 about this all day long, and we still wouldn't get it all 20 right. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's going on over here? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Judge is ciphering. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's getting a summation of 9-26-11 88 1 what we're all talking about. Be interesting to see and hear 2 what that is. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You want this back? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Want to take a break -- a 6 morning break right now? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can do that. Let's go 8 ahead and take about a 15-minute recess. 9 (Recess taken from 10:53 a.m. to 11:15 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go ahead and come back to 12 order, if we might, from our recess. We were on Item 15, had 13 a very minor discussion. As I recall, we had a motion, but I 14 don't recall that we had a second. 15 THE CLERK: No, we had a motion only. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll recall that motion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have a motion now. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we had -- we're going 21 to have one, and I'm going to attempt to make it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This little bird flew over 25 and dropped this note on my desk, and I modified it slightly, 9-26-11 89 1 but I'll see what happens. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we allow propane and 4 cooking fires under safe and controlled conditions. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: In addition to the food 6 establishments? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In addition to the food -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that can cover them as 10 well. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Do 14 we have any discussion? Questions on that motion? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way, if we do this, then 16 the Sheriff can make the determination of whether it's a 17 safe, controlled condition or not. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thanks. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it can be prosecuted by 20 the County Attorney if it's deemed to be uncontrolled and 21 dangerous. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you consider adding that 23 no ground fires of any kind will be allowed? That cannot be 24 deemed -- and the reason is, trying to figure out how it's 25 going to be -- trying to -- that would be a way to at least 9-26-11 90 1 narrow it a little bit, because I don't know -- they may have 2 intended for it to start out safe, but it may not be safe by 3 the time they get there. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has to be safe and 5 controlled. If you have -- if you have a -- I'll give you an 6 example. If, for instance, you have -- you do Dutch oven 7 cooking. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you have that up off the 10 ground on a -- on a plow disc where you put your goals and 11 you put coals on top of there. Of course, wind can come up 12 and sparks could fly out of it. But if you have a fire 13 extinguisher there and/or a volunteer fire department sitting 14 during that time, does that not deem it to be safe and 15 controlled? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Well, "safe and 17 controlled" is fine. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't mind putting ground 19 fires on there. I'll go along with that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if you're doing Dutch 21 ovens, you can't do a Dutch oven without having a ground fire 22 to make a -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, you can cook them in a 24 contained deal and then shovel them out, but then you're 25 putting them on the ground. 9-26-11 91 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you second it? 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with the way 8 it is. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's going to limit any 11 kind of prosecution. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. Well, if it's deemed to 13 be unsafe and dangerous, it can still be prosecuted. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you could be putting 16 liability on us all, because -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're used to it, aren't 18 you? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, more than what I need. 20 If you have -- an officer goes out there and all; he decides, 21 well, this is safe and controlled. Two hours later, it gets 22 out of control. Who's going to be liable? First thing the 23 Court's going to be -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The person who has the fire. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, bottom line, but he's 9-26-11 92 1 also going to say, "Well, you know, that deputy said it was 2 safe and controlled." That deputy is not a fireman. He's 3 not an inspector. He's not anything. He's a deputy sheriff, 4 going to enforce the law. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 6 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pray for rain so we can drop 13 this whole thing. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Amen. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 16; to 16 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to sign a 17 contract with ACES for professional services and cost 18 estimation of package plant to treat wastewater. 19 Commissioner Oehler, tell us what this is about. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, some months ago, Ray 21 Garcia and I were authorized by the Court to go and meet with 22 this engineering firm in San Antonio to talk about the 23 package plant, but that doesn't mean that we're distilling 24 alcohol or anything like that. That's to treat wastewater. 25 And that all came about because of the limitations that were 9-26-11 93 1 put on some of our local septic pumpers by Kerrville 2 Wastewater, and so this was an exploratory thing, and we 3 spent no money doing it. But we met with this engineering 4 firm that can design these -- these plants to treat this 5 wastewater, and this is what came back, if we want them to 6 proceed with doing any cost estimates and design for a 7 certain size facility that can meet requirement of our 8 demand. I'm not real sure we want to proceed with this at 9 this point; budgets are tight and that sort of thing. 10 Somehow or another, I don't know if Kerrville Wastewater has 11 backed off a little bit from stopping some of these guys. I 12 know there was a problem for a while. Some of them were not 13 allowed to dump for a day or two. I think this is something 14 we need to explore in the future, because I think that it 15 will become a larger problem as time goes on. We've been 16 going through a drought, and a lot of the older wastewater 17 systems, if they can't -- if they can't treat water during 18 this time, they sure won't be able to do it during wetter 19 conditions. But I just -- I'm throwing it on the table for 20 the Court to discuss, see if you want us to move forward, 21 whether you want to sign this contract with this company to 22 move forward and give us some cost estimates, or -- I'm just 23 looking for direction from the Court. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What's -- what cost is involved, 25 Commissioner, with giving them the go-ahead to come up with 9-26-11 94 1 some cost estimates and -- and design specs or things of that 2 nature? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it says here $15,000. 4 It says items to be resolved in this study will determine the 5 type, size, location, permitting, treatment processing, and 6 cost of treatment plant needed by Kerr County. That's what 7 the $15,000 would cover. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we table it. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. I just -- I 10 just -- well, I got this from them after -- it's been a long 11 time coming. But I felt like we needed to -- I needed to 12 bring it forward to the Court. And so we'll just keep it 13 there, and if sometime we feel like we need to act on that, 14 we can. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like a fairly comprehensive 16 initial engineering service, though. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, could you -- could you 18 call the item that relates to the Ag Barn windows? I know 19 that Bob and them have been sitting back there all morning, 20 and I'm sure they have other things they need to do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I imagine Bob's getting a good rest 22 after this weekend. He probably needs it. Anything else on 23 Item 16? Let's go to 18; consider, discuss, take appropriate 24 action on request from the Hill Country District Junior 25 Livestock Association regarding replacement of broken windows 9-26-11 95 1 at the Ag Barn. Again, it's yours, Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Stock show folks Steve Bauer 3 and Bob Reeves contacted me and requested that we take this 4 matter up. Lambert Glass and Mirror has put forth this cost 5 of glass only, and they will do all of the work -- the labor 6 at no charge. And stock show folks said, you know, we had a 7 really cold year last year, and lots of broken windows. In 8 fact, the back part, I believe there's 57 that are broken 9 out. We've been avoiding it, thinking we were going to 10 demolish that and build new. But, anyway, the total price, I 11 believe, for the 57 is $750, and that's glass only. And 12 there's an additional 32 on the inside of the building, and 13 that price is $368. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 368? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so they're asking us to 16 buy the glass, and Lambert Glass and Mirror will do the labor 17 free. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I calculate a total of $1,118. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, do you have $1,118 in your 21 materials or improvements or -- 22 MR. BOLLIER: Ask Tess or the -- do we have $1,118 23 in the account for the stock -- to replace the windows at the 24 barn? 25 MS. HARGIS: I'm sure we can find it. 9-26-11 96 1 MR. BOLLIER: Add it to the 41 something that Clay 2 wanted. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You need to look at your 4 budget a little closer. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 4,149. 6 MR. BARTON: Not only "wanted"; got approved. 7 MR. BOLLIER: I'm pretty sure there's enough there. 8 MS. HARGIS: We'll find it. 9 MR. BOLLIER: We'll find it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to approve 11 the agenda item and pay for the glass in the amount of 12 $1,118. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 15 or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a 17 comment. Mr. Lambert is one of those guys in our community 18 that you don't have to question or double question, a man of 19 integrity, and you will get a quality job. And he's one of 20 those guys, like the stock show folks that we were talking 21 about earlier, that we can count on and trust. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Does he live in Precinct 1? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He does. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought that was coming out 25 somewhere. 9-26-11 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could I get a copy of that 2 for him? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Appreciate them doing that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 5 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 17 is 10 to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 11 County Auditor to perform audit of the financial records of 12 the Kerr County Emergency Services Districts Number 1 and 13 Number 2 for Fiscal Year 2010-11. Commissioner Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We're about 23 to get back on track, guys. Item 20 is to consider, discuss, 24 take appropriate action regarding the Hog Out County Grants 25 program. Commissioner Letz? 9-26-11 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since I was -- at the last 2 meeting, I think I was appointed to be in charge of this Hog 3 Out program, at least to look at it. We have to -- if we're 4 going to participate, the -- our notice is due September 5 30th. And when I read the fine print, I'm not so sure we 6 want to participate. In summary, what it is is a competition 7 between the counties for the last three months of the year, 8 who can basically kill the most hogs or educate the most 9 people about killing hogs or the damage hogs do. There's a 10 point system in there; you get one point for every 10 hogs, I 11 think, and then you get one point for each person that goes. 12 The problem I have with it is that it's only -- it's $20,000 13 first place prize, but it's only for reimbursement of 14 expenses incurred, and so you're going to have to go out and, 15 you know, we have to develop a program. We have to certify 16 the -- figure out the program that you keep track of, and, 17 like, you have to collect the ears, or some way to verify 18 that the hogs are killed. Then you got to verify they're 19 killed in Kerr County. And then you have to put on some -- 20 some educational program to teach people about hogs. 21 And while I really -- I mean, I'm all in favor of 22 killing hogs, I don't think this program is worth 23 participating in. I see it costing more money. I think that 24 ranchers around here, for the most part, are killing hogs 25 whenever they can, and I don't think we're going to kill any 9-26-11 99 1 more hogs this way. All we're going to do is have a little 2 bit of bureaucracy to do the same thing we're currently 3 doing, so I'm really not in favor of pursuing it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you're not willing to 5 head the program? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I talked to Roy, and he -- we 7 talked a little bit about it. And, you know, I look at it as 8 either Janie or Roy would be collecting these ears. 9 MR. WALSTON: Jonathan, in March we are going to be 10 having a predator program that is going to include hog 11 management, so I don't know how many people we'll actually 12 have show up. It's going to be at Kerr Wildlife Management 13 Area. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. I think all we 15 can do to educate about hogs -- and I appreciate the state 16 doing a program to try to get the emphasis on it, 'cause it 17 is a statewide problem. I just don't think this program -- 18 if they give, you know, funds that we can use for a year to 19 offer a bounty or something like that, that would be great. 20 But I don't see this as being anything but a cost to the 21 county, and for just a little bit of reimbursement. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it would be nice if 23 they reimburse part of our trapper contract with that money 24 rather than -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might -- 9-26-11 100 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- restricting it in such a 2 way that it makes it, you know, almost impossible. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or provide a helicopter for us to 4 hunt them out of a helicopter. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of that would be eligible. 6 The problem is, you're only reimbursed -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: For expenses. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if you win. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you lose, you just -- 11 you're out. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You eat the cost. I'm not 13 really in favor of pursuing it any further. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything to offer 15 in connection with that item? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go to the next item. 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: We need a motion on that. We need 18 a motion on that, because we've already sent in the letter to 19 participate. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's an intent, but if we don't do 21 anything further, we're out. 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: So we don't need any kind of motion 23 saying we're not interested any more? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we just don't do it. 25 MS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. 9-26-11 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 21 is an 11:30 timed item. 2 Everybody's here on that, it appears like, so let's go with 3 Item 21; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to hire 4 consultant/architect under Professional Services to move 5 forward on a minimum/medium inmate housing facility. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We brought this last time, 7 reworded the agenda item for some type of action. "Hire" is 8 probably not the correct word if Rob were looking at it. 9 It's probably more like "select," so then you can go ahead 10 and get into the best and final offer, final negotiations and 11 whatever the price. To show the urgency of this, though, I'm 12 handing you what we had to send to the Jail Commission 13 Friday. I now have to report to them daily. I've had four 14 phone calls from them already this morning requesting more 15 information. We are at the point of -- especially with our 16 female inmates, where we have to do something, okay. We have 17 rearranged some space in there, but unfortunately, in doing 18 that, it cost us 16 male beds with the way the facility's 19 designed, so now we're -- we're getting close to the max on 20 it. I don't know what else to do. I think the -- the person 21 that spoke last time, Mr. Gondeck, we have visited. The 22 County has had prior dealings with Mr. Gondeck, and under the 23 professional services and that, I don't see an issue with 24 trying to select him and going into the offer under -- under 25 professional services as a consultant and that and to help us 9-26-11 102 1 work with the Jail Commission and get our situation resolved 2 one way or another. 3 MR. HENNEKE: Don't you think we need to do an RFQ 4 on this, Rusty? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not under the -- from what I 6 understand, and Judge Tinley may be able to assist with that, 7 under the professional services deal, and hiring one under 8 professional services, where we've already had prior dealings 9 with Mr. Gondeck. We need to get this thing moving. He's 10 worked for this county before. I think that we probably can 11 agree to select him under that without the RFQ or -- or bid 12 pack, and then it still boils down to the final negotiations 13 that the Court has, or that you and the Court has on the 14 way -- whether or not he's actually hired to do it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: What are your thoughts on this? 16 Under normal circumstances, you need an RFQ for -- 17 MR. HENNEKE: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- professional services. 19 MR. HENNEKE: I don't think his prior interactions 20 with Kerr County can -- certainly, from what I recall the 21 Sheriff presenting at the last Commissioners Court meeting, 22 he's very knowledgeable and qualified, but he may be one of 23 many. And just because we've worked with him in the past 24 doesn't, you know, waive any of the requirements that I'm 25 aware of. 9-26-11 103 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was advised they could, due 2 to the prior experience and the experience with Jail 3 Commission on this issue, and under professional services as 4 a consultant, and that the County could have that -- that 5 ability to enter into those -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like I heard that too 7 just recently. I heard somebody else say that too just 8 recently. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think to get this moving 10 forward, I think that would be -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item, appropriate action 12 to hire a consultant/architect, that would authorize action 13 by the Court to issue an RFQ for professional services for 14 this very purpose, I would think, wouldn't it? 15 MR. HENNEKE: That's what I anticipated the action 16 under this to be. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It'll start the ball rolling. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So we're waiting for that. 19 Are we going to start -- request it? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to authorize it at this 21 point, and that would seem to be the start point, if we're 22 going to go out for public participation by people with those 23 kinds of qualifications. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Unfortunately, I don't see 25 that we really have a huge choice, other than transporting 9-26-11 104 1 and housing out-of-county. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we need to look at our 3 options. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And, of course, one of them is 6 definitely to provide more space of our own. Which I don't 7 think any of us want to do, 'cause it costs a lot of money to 8 do that, but we don't have a choice. If -- if the Commission 9 decides we need to start putting deputies on the road, 10 driving these people around the countryside, we -- we got to 11 fill up the cars and send them rolling. I guess at this 12 point, I'm awaiting a motion to authorize an RFQ for an 13 architect/consultant to provide professional services in 14 connection with the construction or implementation at our 15 facility of a minimum/medium inmate housing facility. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other thing, it could 21 be some -- also some interior on redesign of current cells. 22 We may have to put some alternative doors in and that, so 23 it's not just the construction of a -- whether it's a prefab 24 minimum/medium, you know; it's the -- the interior 25 modifications that would also have to be made. 9-26-11 105 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would think that that would 2 include how you incorporate it into the existing facility 3 operational-wise or construction-wise, either way. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, because if we didn't 5 want to build two, we wanted to add doors into the back of 6 some other cells, we'd have to knock out door spaces to keep 7 female inmates inside, and whether you move male inmates 8 outside in that other facility, there could be a lot of 9 different alternatives that I need assistance with and 10 guidance from Jail Commission and our own consultant, whoever 11 it would be; consult an architect to help design what we've 12 got to do that's most economical. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments on 14 the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Sheriff, if 20 you will work with the Auditor on -- deer in the headlights 21 look -- on putting that together, whatever other resources 22 you think might be available to assist, why, that would be 23 wonderful. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might want to wait till after 25 the budget's finalized. 9-26-11 106 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's going to take us another 3 week or two to get the -- get the RFQ's, I'm sure, put 4 together to send out. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Let's go to Item 22; to 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 7 interlocal agreement between the County of Kerr and the City 8 of Kerrville. I think we're working on the inmate housing; 9 is that not correct? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is correct, inmate 11 housing agreement. It's the exact same agreement that I had 12 on at the prior Commissioners Court agenda. The City Council 13 did take action on -- on part of it. They had agreed to this 14 agreement with $45 a day, and they have also agreed to let 15 one of their part-time municipal court judges be part of the 16 rotation -- J.P. rotation, where they would rotate once every 17 five weeks for a week-long period in doing magistration at 18 the jail. I think that takes -- I would personally think 19 that takes care of the J.P.s' issue, for the most part, they 20 had. This agreement is one that the Chief of Police and I 21 had worked out prior to that, and I think that takes care of 22 this. And it would be my recommendation we enter into this 23 agreement. Just give me an effective date, because that's 24 what's kind of odd. Should it be October 1? Should it be 25 after the 90-day term and the letter that was originally sent 9-26-11 107 1 terminating it in 90 days, which would not be until, I think, 2 November or something. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The agreement specifies October 1, 4 2011. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what we had written 6 into it, but then there was a -- a letter sent from this 7 Court -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This supersedes. I mean, 9 this -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This is it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the deal. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me. 15 MR. HENNEKE: What did the -- what date did the 16 City -- when they voted on theirs, what date did they -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think they changed 18 anything in what the agreement was. 19 MR. BARTON: October 1. They voted on that. It 20 says October 1. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, on this agreement. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you looked at that, Rob? 23 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, I have. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You wrote it, probably. 25 MR. HENNEKE: I've had input on it. 9-26-11 108 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's had a lot of input. It's 2 gone back and forth. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the inmate housing agreement. Question or 7 discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is good government 9 relations, City and County. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's also a three-year -- 11 three-year agreement too? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 13 MR. HENNEKE: Yes. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 2014? 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, three years. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's a "subject to 17 cancellation at any time." 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, 90 days notice. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? 21 MR. HENNEKE: Just to point out, the magistration 22 arrangement is not part of the -- not in this. It's, you 23 know, part of the same discussion, but those terms aren't 24 included in this document. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9-26-11 109 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those will come later. Or 2 they'll just do it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just going to do it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have communication from the City 5 Manager indicating their being in that rotation. Any other 6 question or comments? All in favor, signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 23; to 12 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 13 interlocal agreement with the City of Kerrville for airport 14 and airport operations. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no agreement in the 16 backup, primarily because we didn't get a final -- an 17 agreement until late Friday. But most of the Court knows 18 that the Judge and I met with representatives from the City 19 last week and pretty much ironed out a deal that will 20 essentially keep the current arrangement in place, with a few 21 modifications to it. This is a one-year deal, even though it 22 can be renewed at the end of this term if we choose, but I 23 think the intent is for us to look at this during the next 12 24 months to see if there needs to be a -- a different 25 agreement. But I'll just go over -- briefly over the major 9-26-11 110 1 things that we -- that changed. The -- there is a term 2 limitation of three consecutive two-year terms for board 3 members has been put in. There didn't used to be any kind of 4 a -- any kind of term limitations. Then on the -- that's on 5 the second page. The next major part of it -- or change, on 6 the fourth page, the Airport Manager will have a -- I guess 7 an evaluation process set up by the Airport Board that will 8 be very clear as to what the goals are for the Airport 9 Manager and the evaluation process. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On budget issues, Page 5 -- or 12 bottom of 4, I think it says their capital items will be part 13 of the budget process. They'll have a five-year running 14 capital project list, and then a capital item is -- anything 15 over $5,000 will be considered capital improvements. On the 16 next page, on Page 6, there's a limitation on moving funds 17 between line items in their budget. They can only move up to 18 5 percent of the total budget during the year between funds, 19 so it's a limitation. If you have a -- if it's a $100,000 20 budget, there's discretion for the Airport Board to move 21 $5,000 around during the year without coming to us. Their 22 budget's more than that; their budget's 400-some thousand, so 23 they have about $20,000 that they can move around. And if 24 there's a need to go beyond that, they can come back to us 25 for -- 9-26-11 111 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of those funds are 2 generated through services the airport provides. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And sale of fuel and rental 5 and whatever income. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And there's line items 7 in there that are, you know, like our budget, and it's just a 8 matter of how they can move their funds around a little bit. 9 I'm looking -- is the language in here, Judge or Rob, about 10 the emergency expenditures? I don't think that's in here. 11 But, anyway, it's not a big deal. We can -- it's a matter of 12 how you -- we had discussed that. I get confused at times 13 between -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: See, under excess spending, you -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up above that, on Item C, if 16 there isn't -- the budget's a lot tighter than it has been in 17 the past, and there's less contingencies available. So, if 18 there is a need for an emergency expenditure, the Airport 19 Board president can go into the reserve account and expend 20 those funds under emergency situation, which would be 21 something like if there was a runway failure; they need 22 something out there, if there was some sort of a plane -- you 23 know, a plane crash. Airport Board President has the access 24 to the reserve fund at the airport to use those funds, and 25 then he just has to report back to the owners what those 9-26-11 112 1 funds were used for. And -- but the Airport Board President 2 has discretion to do that, declare an emergency. The budget 3 amount is 110,000 or the final budget, whichever is less, 4 which is a reduced amount from what we talked about earlier, 5 but I think that's something that, in talking with 6 representatives from the Airport Board, it's workable. 7 And then on Page 7, Item 6, an airport planning 8 committee has been or will be created. It is a committee 9 that will meet quarterly. It'll have three representatives 10 from the county, three representatives from the city, and two 11 from the airport, and it is basically -- the purpose of that 12 committee is to make sure communication is going to stay 13 open. It's formalized from the standpoint that, you know, 14 the County will be there, the City will be there, the Airport 15 Board, just to make sure that we're all sitting down at that 16 table, that the Airport Board understands what the owners are 17 doing, and the owners understand what the Airport Board is 18 doing. It's just a way to basically require communication. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question 20 about that. Is this actually fixing a problem, or is this 21 something that you normally do? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Communication, I think. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think communication was a 24 problem, or was, you know, in the prior years. And it is a 25 -- there's a difference of, I guess, philosophy about an 9-26-11 113 1 Attorney General's opinion several years ago that said that 2 elected officials cannot serve -- from the City and County 3 cannot serve on the Airport Board. The City views that to -- 4 you know, in a way that they don't think that their 5 councilmen should really participate or be at airport 6 meetings. We look at it differently; that we attend the 7 meetings and, you know, don't -- we participate if asked, but 8 we don't participate in the meeting. We don't have any say 9 in what's going on. So, this is kind of a way to solve 10 communication, which is part of the problem, as we were told. 11 So, there is a way to fix that problem. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does -- will you continue 13 going to the meetings? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's worthwhile, and I 17 think it's -- I wish the members from the City Council would 18 go as well, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And so this committee 20 meets no less than once per calendar quarter? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And it's really -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they report to anybody? 24 Or -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9-26-11 114 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't read it all. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. There's a record of the 3 meetings, so there will not -- the only real requirement is 4 that there shall not be three members of the Court or three 5 members of the City Council will not be the representatives. 6 The idea is that it's just kind of a -- to keep communication 7 open. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is a -- you know, 10 hopefully to get us past the current situation into more of a 11 long-term arrangement and during the year. Those are the -- 12 the bulk of the -- I mean, the major changes. And the 13 document is a little bit different, 'cause it's gone through 14 so many changes. I might have missed a few little things, 15 but I think I hit the major points. We -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the contract -- 17 or the maintenance contract? How is that working? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no change at all. 19 Presently, the County will still have the management 20 contract, and there's no changes in any way to that part of 21 the structure. There is -- one of the first things the -- 22 whatever the committee's called, the owners' committee, that 23 committee is going to look at the possibility of eliminating 24 the management contract completely, transferring the 25 employees to the Airport Board, and just -- and we're 9-26-11 115 1 actually working to try to get that done by today. But it 2 became evident Friday that that was going to be a disaster to 3 try to rush to get that done that quickly, and after the 4 conversation I had with the City Manager, he said -- you 5 know, basically, we just agreed, let's keep it status-quo. 6 There's nothing that prohibits us -- the budget won't change 7 either way, and if everyone is in agreement and can come up 8 with a way to kind of switch most of the functions of the 9 management contract to the Airport Board, it can be done just 10 by amending the budget. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any time throughout the 12 year? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any time throughout the year, 14 that can be done. Dollars would not change any. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's very wise to 16 do that, actually. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let that board function the 19 way it's supposed to function. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, I mean, it's kind 21 of a -- this is a stopgap agreement. It doesn't solve all 22 the issues. It addresses some of them. You know, it's a -- 23 we accomplished what we set out to do last week, which was to 24 not have a major problem out there and keep the Airport Board 25 in place, keep funds available. And we'll work through any 9-26-11 116 1 issues we have during the coming year. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you're going to make a 3 motion to adopt the -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to -- Rob -- 5 before I say that, Rob, is there any -- you don't have any 6 more changes or modifications, do you? 7 MR. HENNEKE: No. Mike Hayes and I have worked out 8 the language. It's what y'all -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was -- I wanted to ask that, 10 because it was really the eleventh hour when that was being 11 finalized on Friday, because the City was really wanting to 12 get this on their agenda, and at the same time, we had to 13 work out the budget that goes with it, because the City 14 Council is going to approve the budget, which we're not 15 approving. We approved the total amount of the budget, but 16 not the line items. 17 MR. HENNEKE: Now, what I'll add is I sent Jody 18 Exhibit A and Exhibit B, which I think she's circulated, but 19 those are attachments to the airport agreement. They look 20 fine to me, but they should be included in what you're 21 adopting. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But for our purposes, we budgeted 23 the total amount within our budgetary structure, so that 24 those funds are available. 25 MR. HENNEKE: Right. 9-26-11 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I move approval of the 2 interlocal agreement between the City and County for the 3 Joint Airport Board. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before you leave that, Judge, 13 Mr. Moser, do you have any comments you want to make? One of 14 our board members from the airport is present. 15 MR. MOSER: No. I -- from what I heard -- and I 16 think the board will meet and discuss this, but I think we 17 can live with what's in the interlocal agreement. The 18 budget, I don't -- we've never -- we haven't seen the 19 proposed budget. We submitted one, so we'll take a look at 20 what you -- what you're sending back to us. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a little bit -- well, 22 City and County had a little bit of different options. We 23 looked at a total number, which we're comfortable with. The 24 City was more concerned about some of the line items, but I 25 don't think that's a huge issue. 9-26-11 118 1 MR. MOSER: I don't think it's a show-stopper. As 2 long as we can have a mechanism to get the funds we need to 3 operate, we'll continue to be a number one airport. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here, Mr. Moser. 5 Okay. Let's go to Item 24; to consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to adopt the Kerr County Fund Balance 7 policy pursuant to Governmental Accounting Standards Board 8 Statement Number 54. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't vote. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, did we not? 11 THE CLERK: We had a motion and second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we vote? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I voted. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought we voted. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I thought we did. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't remember. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 18 MS. HARGIS: No, you didn't vote. 19 MR. BOLLIER: He came up. 20 MR. MOSER: You voted. Then they asked me -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It was after the fact that -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And I'm thinking, "Jon, why don't do 24 you this before we vote?" 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9-26-11 119 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We voted. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know about the rest 6 of y'all. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I may have missed Jon's, but it 8 still passed. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still valid. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He voted, I know. Anyway -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: After making the motion. Let's go 12 to Item 24, the GASB Accounting Standards Fund Balance 13 policy. 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I think all of you have had a 15 chance to review this. I went over it a little bit; I gave 16 all of you copies of the book. But, basically, what we're 17 doing here is -- is designing how your profit and loss -- at 18 the bottom, it used to say reserved and unreserved, and now 19 we say non-spendable, restricted, committed, assigned, and 20 unassigned. To make it real simple, the un -- the 21 non-spendable form is a prepaid inventory. We don't really 22 have inventory on these books. We have them -- these are the 23 fund statements. This is not the funky statements that we 24 use -- the new ones, the net asset statements. These are the 25 fund statements that we use every day. The restricted fund 9-26-11 120 1 is your debt service funds, your -- the funds that are set by 2 the state. 3 And to give you an analogy of the difference 4 between restricted, committed, and assigned, there was an 5 example given at my seminar which I thought was quite 6 apropos. It was when you're in engaged to someone, you're 7 assigned to them, but you're not committed. Once you have a 8 legal document, then you become committed to them. So, if 9 you can look at it that way, that's really what it says. 10 Your restricted fund balance, again, is -- is by law -- or by 11 document. That's either our bond resolutions or -- or note 12 resolutions. And then committed, the Court actually commits 13 funds. We don't currently have any of those at this point. 14 Assigning a fund, you can assign it or you can tell me to 15 assign a fund based on criteria throughout the year. Most of 16 our stuff is going to fall under unassigned, which is 17 unreserved, which is where most of our stuff has fallen 18 before. 19 The definitions of each fund pretty much that I 20 have here follow the GASB statement. They're, again, pretty 21 general. And the order of spending is required, and -- and 22 we're going to spend them in the order that we have here 23 listed, because that's pretty much the required standard. 24 The minimum fund balance, I know that we have an order out 25 there for 25 percent, but unfortunately, that's not what we 9-26-11 121 1 have right now, and so I used the 10 to 20 percent as a 2 projection that we would have. And then the general fixed 3 assets and capital planning, I put in the $5,000 number which 4 we've been talking about. Again, these are pretty much 5 boilerplate, fitted to us with -- with the minimum fund 6 balance requirements. I gave you a grid, and the grid kind 7 of tells you what's assigned, what's not assigned, what's 8 restricted, what's not restricted. Most of our funds that 9 are set out by the State are restricted. Our grants are 10 restricted and so forth. A lot of these are grants. 11 As you can see, we don't really have any. There's 12 two pages, by the way, back and front. And some of the funds 13 that we have are for another agency, and I denoted that on 14 this statement so that you can understand that. The first 15 year, I think everybody's going to have, you know, the best 16 they can. This is the first year for implementation of this 17 document by pretty much every entity. GASB always encourages 18 early implementation, and as far as I know, in the state of 19 Texas there's only been one or two counties. Plano did, and 20 I think El Paso County did, and those are the only two 21 counties that early implemented, so there's really not a lot 22 of data out there to tell us whether we're right or wrong. 23 The only thing I'm going by, if there's a law related to a 24 setting of that fund, or it's grant or it's a debt service, 25 then it becomes a restricted fund. 9-26-11 122 1 What's going to happen is, our financials are going 2 to look different, not this year, but next year. We -- 3 instead of having the fire and the indigent health and all 4 those funds that we were used to seeing, those funds are 5 really general funds, so they will all fold up in the general 6 -- the general fund category. To make it kind of easy, most 7 of the funds that we have set up over the years -- and this 8 is pretty general of all counties and cities -- is to track. 9 We use those as tracking mechanisms. Let's use the fire, for 10 example. We put the volunteer fire departments in there, and 11 we put the amount of money that we pay the City of Kerrville. 12 We use that to track how much we pay the volunteer 13 firefighters. And in the past, under a lot of the old 14 software, that was really the only mechanism you had to 15 control that fund, or that, so to speak, allocation. 16 In today's software, we can do it by department. 17 We don't have to do it by fund. We're all under what we call 18 a pooled cash concept, which means we just have one bank 19 account, and everything flows down into those funds in that 20 one bank account. We'll go through -- as the year progresses 21 and I begin to fold these up, I will design it. We'll look 22 at it, and -- and we'll get comfortable with it. It's going 23 to take us some time to get it, because we're going to have 24 to budget that way next year. And as we fold these 25 departments in, we're going to have to remember that they're 9-26-11 123 1 still separate; they can still have a separate financial 2 statement, and they can still be tracked just like we track 3 Animal Control, the Sheriff, and the jail now. But they'll 4 just be a department within the general fund. 5 The reason for this GASB 54 is that S.E.C. and the 6 bondholders are saying that the general public can't tell 7 what moneys we can spend and what moneys we can't spend, 8 because all of us have different funds based on our needs. 9 Because our budget documents are a management tool. It's our 10 toolbox to manage our accounting. Like Buster always says, 11 we really don't care what goes on in Gillespie, because they 12 have different needs than we do. So, our funds have been 13 developed over a period of time to take care of Kerr County. 14 But GASB said they don't really care, because we're all going 15 to conform, so we don't really have a choice. This is a 16 bigger -- as they said at the seminar, this is the largest 17 change since we went to GASB 34, because they let us keep our 18 fund statements alone. They let us make these other 19 statements and financials without changing the funds. Now 20 they're saying you can't do that any more. 21 So, when I finalize this, there will be footnotes 22 to our financial statements this year actually spelling out 23 each one of these funds, what the law was that created it, 24 like on your records archival. Every fund will have a 25 legal -- Local Government Code attached to it, and it'll have 9-26-11 124 1 a note. It just means our financials are going to be bigger, 2 longer. At the end of the day, it will help to sell bonds, 3 but it's going to take a couple of years for all of us to get 4 to where we're real comfortable with it. But I can't really 5 -- I would love to roll them up this year, but we didn't 6 budget that way, and I think it would confuse everybody if we 7 start taking, like, for instance, the fire, and make it -- 8 make it a department when we've got it already budgeted under 9 a fund. But next year you won't see all of that; you'll just 10 see general fund. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 12 The difference between department and fund, I mean, you say 13 we're going to continue tracking things like we always did, 14 but it will just be under department as opposed to fund. 15 Will it be as specific or more specific? 16 MS. HARGIS: It will be as -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pennies and nickels, or -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, it will be basically revenue and 19 expense. It's not going to be cash. Where we've been 20 holding a cash balance in all these funds, they're all going 21 to be maintained in the general fund, because there's no 22 legal ramification for us to have this special fire fund. We 23 just did it because we needed to have that mechanism. 24 There's really no legal document that says we have to have a 25 public library fund. It just, again, was our way -- or a 9-26-11 125 1 mechanical way of keeping track of it. But you can do the 2 same thing in the funds. You look at Rusty's 560 for the 3 Sheriff's Department, and you can tell whether he's in 4 budget. You look at the Maintenance Department, or -- and 5 Janie's one that's outside of the building, and we track her 6 in her own department. It's the same thing. It's really 7 going to be simpler, because we'll just have one set of 8 books, and everything will just be a department. 9 The -- the thing that I'm hoping to be able to 10 design -- we have to get with Incode, because they're so 11 proprietary, they don't allow us to get in there and play as 12 much as some other software companies do. And in my own 13 company, I had this software where I could make the revenue 14 come out with the expense with that department so that it was 15 easier to track. We're going to try to see if we can do 16 that, 'cause right now our revenue's all in one -- one deal. 17 So we need, on some of these funds, to be able to track 18 revenue against that department. And we need that anyway, so 19 we'll figure it out in the next 12 months. So, it's going to 20 be a work in progress. But right now, the main thing is, 21 before the end of the fiscal year, we have to approve this 22 policy. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, it's been mandated 24 by -- by the various folks that have the authority to push it 25 forward that we got to adopt it. 9-26-11 126 1 MS. HARGIS: It's been mandated. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: To classify these funds. 3 MS. HARGIS: Right, by the federal government. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to 7 approve the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 8 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to 13 Section 4, if we might. Payment of the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Question or 18 discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 1, Commissioners 20 Court, the Gipson Real Estate. I can't remember what that 21 was. Was that out in Ingram? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's what we're going 24 to talk about later. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 9-26-11 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: On Page 17, those various rental 4 costs, why are those in nondepartmental as opposed to D.A., 5 Sheriff's Office maybe, J.P. 4 and -- and Tax Office? Why 6 did those end up in nondepartmental? 'Cause I notice tower 7 rental -- another tower rental came under the Sheriff's 8 budget. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are you? Tell me 10 where you are. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Very first item. 12 MS. HARGIS: Very first three. They're in 13 nondepartmental. They're actually prepayment expenses right 14 now, and she put them under nondepartmental, because then 15 we'll just reverse them -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MS. HARGIS: -- to the right line item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: An accounting function, then? 19 MS. HARGIS: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. HARGIS: These are prepaid. We don't see these 22 very often. This is at the end of the year. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Nice to get ahead of the curve. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, we got some prepaid. That's the 25 way we'll do Clay's item; we'll actually prepay that lease 9-26-11 128 1 for the next three months. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Page 3. What did we mediate? 3 MR. HENNEKE: That is the Highway 27 floodplain 4 property, Mr. Arreola. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm with you. Okay. Anybody 6 else got any questions? All in favor, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We have some 12 budget amendments. Looks like we have 29 separate items, 13 which is, I suppose, not unusual for this time of year. Any 14 questions or comments about those? Do I hear a motion that 15 the Budget Amendment Requests Numbers 1 through 29, as 16 provided on the summary sheet, be approved as presented? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval as indicated. Question or discussion? All in 21 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. We do have a 9-26-11 129 1 late bill. 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Alamo Colleges. Intro to 4 Accounting -- 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- course. 7 MS. HARGIS: This is the training that we tried to 8 set up last year, and we're finally getting it set up, and we 9 have -- this is all departments. We have several 10 representatives. I think there's eight -- seven or eight 11 people going. And we -- this is the tuition and the books 12 for that, so it had to be there so that they can start the 13 class. They're doing it especially for us and designing it, 14 so we -- we hope this helps a lot of the departments with 15 their understanding of accounting and running their separate 16 analyses that they run. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: This is for seven or eight people? 18 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And this includes tuition and books? 20 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems pretty reasonable to me for 22 that many people. 23 MS. HARGIS: And we got a professor, I believe, 24 from Schreiner to teach the course. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9-26-11 130 1 MS. HARGIS: So we're real excited about that. We 2 had hoped to get it together a lot sooner, but we couldn't 3 get a professor until now. That was the main reason we 4 couldn't do it. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Looks good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion for approval of 7 the late bill? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the late bill to Alamo Colleges, $3,800. 12 Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. I've been presented 18 monthly reports from Kerr County Treasurer for August 2011; 19 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; Justice of the Peace, 20 Precinct 1; District Clerk; and Constable, Precinct 3. Do I 21 hear a motion that these reports be approved as presented? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 25 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 9-26-11 131 1 hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We do have 6 some executive session items that we need to attend to. 7 MR. HENNEKE: Judge? 8 MS. HARGIS: Judge Tinley, I think we're going to 9 remove Item 24 for right now. The County Attorney hasn't had 10 an opportunity to review it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: And 25 -- 13 MR. HENNEKE: We'll pass 25 today. 14 MS. HARGIS: So we'll have that ready for the next 15 Commissioners Court meeting. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is 12:07. At this time, 17 we'll go out of public or open session for the purpose of 18 going -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Are you not going to go over Item 5? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I'm going to get there. For 21 the purpose of going into closed or executive session with 22 regard to Item 26. 23 (The open session was closed at 12:07 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 24 is contained in a separate document.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 9-26-11 132 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're back in open or public 2 session; it is 12:16. Does any member of the Court have 3 anything to offer with respect to the matters considered in 4 executive or on closed session? Okay. I don't hear anything 5 there, so let's go back to Item 5, I believe it is. 6 Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on various matters 7 in proposed Fiscal Year 2011-12 Kerr County budget. As I've 8 indicated, I put this on every meeting that we've had for the 9 last -- whatever, so that -- to give the opportunity to any 10 member of the Court on any particular budget matter and throw 11 it out on the table. Is there any particular item that we'd 12 like to discuss at this time? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this include insurance 14 questions? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure would. That's a budget 16 item. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody's insurance question, I 18 wanted to know if anybody had landed with an answer to that 19 or not. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The policy if you've got a husband 21 and wife, that you can construct the deductible so that you 22 don't penalize them, because you got both spouses working? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: As our policy in the past, I think 25 we should continue to -- I don't think they ought to be 9-26-11 133 1 penalized. If they weren't good employees, we wouldn't hang 2 onto them, so we don't want to penalize them. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an option for the 4 Commissioners Court. And is that something by court order we 5 need to adopt, or how does -- how does that work? I don't 6 recall doing it. 7 MS. LANTZ: We cannot find a court order on it. 8 All we found was an e-mail. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, what? 10 MS. LANTZ: An e-mail. We didn't find a court 11 order on that, and I gave that information to Jeannie for her 12 to look at it. 13 MS. HARGIS: Basically, what it amounts to is that 14 if there are two people in the family, rather than paying 15 $450, they've been paying 225. And there was nothing in -- 16 in anything that we found where you guys approved anything of 17 that. It just showed up. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it seems equitable that you 19 don't want to penalize them, so you -- you treat the other 20 one as though it were, I suppose, a -- well, no, that 21 wouldn't be the case. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's no policy, we 23 probably need a court order, then, and I don't know that we 24 can do a court order under the agenda item. I mean, I think 25 we can -- we can set the policy today, but I think we have to 9-26-11 134 1 come back and -- you know. 2 MS. HARGIS: I mean, this is something we need to 3 identify when we're finding out what the cost is, because 4 that means that if -- if those families are not paying 450, 5 then you're -- then the County's paying an additional $175 6 for those people versus the others, so that has to be 7 factored into the premium, which there's nothing that 8 reflects that on -- on Gary Looney's analysis at all. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: When he calculated the -- the income 10 aspect of it? Yeah. It would be a slight reduction in 11 income from -- from premium payments. 12 MS. HARGIS: Right. So we have to -- you know. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And the net effect in that case 14 would be a reduction in premium payments for family coverage 15 of how much per family unit? 16 MS. HARGIS: For a family unit, it's now 450 to a 17 single employee, 225 to them, so it's 175. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So it would be a $175 reduction to a 19 family unit that are both employees of the county? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think the appropriate 22 policy would be if you have both spouses employed by the 23 county, for family coverage, the premium will be reduced by 24 $175 to those two employed spouses. Would that not be 25 correct? 9-26-11 135 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm hearing. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. HARGIS: Actually, it's 125. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 5 MS. HARGIS: It's 125. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not 175. 125? 7 MS. HARGIS: No, I can't add. 125. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many folks are -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that number sound right to you? 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many folks -- 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: Mine's a little different, because 12 I just pay for one dependent. I don't do family, 'cause we 13 just have Savannah covered. So, Mike is covered with the 14 county; I'm covered with the County, and then I pay for one 15 dependent. 16 MS. HARGIS: What happens is that just one employee 17 of the two would take on the family policy. Usually one of 18 them just pays -- gets the free insurance for themselves, and 19 then the other one then puts the family plan on their -- on 20 their policy. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So that the family coverage cost 22 would be reduced by $125. 23 MS. HARGIS: Right. And I will have -- right now, 24 I don't remember exactly. How many do you -- 25 MS. LANTZ: There's about 14 total employees. 9-26-11 136 1 Well, husband and wife, there would be seven. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're kidding. Fourteen 3 people that are -- both husband and wife are employed by the 4 county? 5 MS. LANTZ: Mm-hmm, and that are using those 6 benefits. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 8 MS. LANTZ: That are using -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Using those. Combined, we're 10 talking a difference of about $875. Is that -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Times 12. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Times 12, okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: But we just need to change it, because 14 we really don't have any authority to be doing what we're 15 doing. We just want to make it so we have -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're saying right now. 17 Can we do a court order? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, I don't see why you can't. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve this 20 policy. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: To reduce premium to a husband and 22 wife by $125 a year for family coverage? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 9-26-11 137 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second. 2 Further question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Anything else we 8 need to -- we need to address today on budgetary items for 9 the 2011-12 budget? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have a -- I have one, 11 I think. I want to ask a question of any other elected 12 officials, department heads that have anything that might 13 impact the budget that they can do to maybe reduce their 14 costs. And I think Janie has actually indicated there might 15 be a plan that she wants to talk about to maybe save a little 16 money. So, Janie, do you want to tell us about it? 17 MS. WHITT: I just -- I'd like to make sure that I 18 get that third officer back. From what I understand, it's 19 still in -- in the budget. I can eliminate one part-time 20 position, saving approximately 29 -- about 29,5, right, Tess? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But you only want to do that if 22 the -- 23 MS. WHITT: If I get -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- third officer is included within 25 your budget? 9-26-11 138 1 MS. WHITT: Right. I -- being that we have the 2 contract with the City, and the City of Ingram, it was just 3 too much for my officers this year to do without that third 4 officer. I've got to have that third officer. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, seems reasonable. 6 MS. WHITT: But I can eliminate that part-time 7 position. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The net effect is going to be 9 over 29,000 savings. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think -- I commend 12 her for -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- being able to suck it up 15 another notch, and also get a person she needs, but continue 16 to do the job. And I know they put in a lot of -- a lot of 17 staff time out there, and the calls, especially through the 18 summer, have been pretty high. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've had a lot of incidents 20 of rabies this summer. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of rabies. She's 22 having lots of bite cases, more so than ever before. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope none of them are our 24 officers. 25 MS. WHITT: No. 9-26-11 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's good. 2 MS. WHITT: Well, I did have one, but it's been 3 several months ago. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're not biting anybody, 5 are you? 6 MS. WHITT: No, I'm not. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's biting back. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. Make sure you're 9 vaccinated. 10 MS. WHITT: I'm playing nice. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I had a comment. I know that a 12 number of the -- I talked to the Auditor, and I believe a 13 number of members of the Court talked to the Auditor last 14 week about various things that can happen. I'm still, you 15 know, not in favor of a tax increase, as I've been the whole 16 time, but I am in favor of trying to figure out a way to give 17 the employees an increase, and I think that that can be done. 18 I think that the -- you know, again, all the departments have 19 gone back and we've cut a lot out of the budget. We went 20 through an exercise here; we've reduced some things. 21 Insurance is helping a little bit. But I think one of the 22 things that, you know, if you talk about how you -- the 23 terminology, and "merit" versus the other, we get bogged down 24 a lot. But -- and we have to keep within the step and grade 25 process. 9-26-11 140 1 And it seems that if we go with a two-step increase 2 across the board, and that's the only salary change that's 3 made this year, some of the other changes that were a merit 4 increase -- I don't know how much money it was, but a bunch 5 of other little -- a bunch of minor changes -- I'd call them 6 minor; one person being moved up a notch or two, and if we 7 eliminated those, gave everybody a two-step increase, I think 8 that still puts in over 300,000 into reserves, with no tax 9 increase. And I think that's a way to help all employees. 10 That also does put back, I believe, the HRA card or whatever 11 you call the -- HCA? Isn't -- I believe that's in those 12 numbers. I believe it's in the insurance number. I think 13 it's a way to, you know, meet the goals we've been trying to 14 get to give the employees an increase, and at the same time 15 build -- rebuild reserves. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Elected officials as well? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Or equivalent, is what you're 19 saying. Equivalent. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or equivalent. It does -- and 21 I have no problem with excluding any elected officials from 22 it, because it's just a -- but I think you end up -- you end 23 up in a problem at some point with elected officials. We 24 need to -- have to do all or no elected officials, in my 25 mind. And I think they can be done, you know, without a tax 9-26-11 141 1 increase, and that would be a recommendation I would like to 2 put on the table. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there something you wanted to see 4 more definitive numbers about? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't looked. I'm not sure 6 what the Auditor handed out. 7 MS. HARGIS: The two-step increase is the second 8 scenario. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Speak up so we can hear you, 10 please. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, I'm sorry. The second 12 scenario on the page that says "no tax increase" is a 13 two-step increase. And that, with the insurance, gives us 14 about a -- a $650,000 play. It's not really -- it's 493, but 15 I wanted to give the Court the opportunity to put the whole 16 amount in so that you can choose what kind of policy that you 17 wanted. So, that will determine what your savings is, but 18 it'll be no less than $500,000. But you do have an 19 additional 157 that was given to you the last time Gary 20 Looney was here in insurance savings, depending on how you 21 want to use that, whether you want to buy the -- the buy-up 22 plan, whether you want to give an HRA card. That's what the 23 157,379 number is. If you add that to the fund balance, that 24 is very similar to what I've shown you before. That gives us 25 2 million, 6 coming into next year. 9-26-11 142 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And let me go back a little 2 bit. The reason I went to a step increase request instead of 3 a percentage increase is because our -- we have asked, over 4 the last couple years, all employees to do more; every 5 department head, every employee to do more, and this is 6 really not a cost-of-living increase. Maybe some of that is 7 built into it. It's really a merit increase for -- I mean, 8 we're paying people to do more. I mean, we have cut the work 9 force by 10 percent, and we're asking people to do more work, 10 and that to me is a merit increase, or increase in job 11 responsibilities across the board. We've done it in every 12 department. I think that -- you know, I think the 13 nomenclature of calling it cost-of-living is not accurate. I 14 think it is -- it's a -- you know, a merit or step increase 15 in our -- on how we have our wage scale, so that's why I 16 think that makes sense, because it kind of is more -- really 17 reflects what we're doing, more than just giving everyone a 18 raise. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, I might throw 20 an idea out there as well. And just for -- and I have a 21 couple comments and some issues as far as the budget is 22 concerned, questions that I'd like to ask also of the Court. 23 I would be -- again, all of the savings that we're talking 24 about as far as the budget are concerned by all the 25 department heads working and doing everything they've been 9-26-11 143 1 asked to do. I mean, when folks have either retired or who 2 have left, we've had more of our department heads all 3 stepping up doing a fantastic job. There's no doubt about 4 that. I think of the wages that you're talking about; you 5 mentioned all the other incentives or the wage elevators or 6 merits. Those are not -- you know, those go away when you 7 look at whatever we can try to do this year for folks as far 8 as an increase. I agree with that as well. 9 I'd like to throw another alternative out there for 10 consideration/discussion, is to throw out an option where we 11 have a one-step pay increase, and again, across the board for 12 everybody. And, again, then look at a cost-of-living 13 increase percentage, and that would be one and a half 14 percent, and this would be designated to go to all of those 15 Kerr County employees that are under the Kerr County median 16 household income of $41,445. That is a 2011 number as far as 17 median household -- median household income is. So, you 18 would have a step and grade and a one and a half percent 19 increase to those that are underneath that number. Again, 20 trying to help with more of the folks that are in our -- our 21 employees, trying to help them out as much as we can. Again, 22 that's going to be subject to -- again, from my decision as 23 far as what I'm going to vote on, that would be subject to 24 not having a tax increase to get there, but to help those 25 with a step across for everybody, and then to look at a one 9-26-11 144 1 and a half percent additional COLA increase for those that 2 are below the median household income average. That's an 3 option I'd like to throw out there as well. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The bean counters are probably not 5 real pleased with that one. You're going to wear out more 6 pencils than they've got in inventory right now trying to do 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's 80 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My problem with that is -- and 11 this doesn't sound as hard, but unfortunately, everyone can't 12 get paid above a certain rate. That's like kind of -- 13 that -- to me, that philosophy is the same as raising the 14 minimum wage. I mean, all it does is raise the poverty 15 level. I mean, you know, or what they -- what is called the 16 new poverty level. I think that you have to differentiate, 17 you know, skills of people. There are some people that just 18 -- you know, it sounds -- it's tough, but their work is just 19 not worth as much as other people's, and that's the nature of 20 our whole society and capitalism, the whole bit. And, you 21 know, while I'd love -- you know, they have -- everybody has 22 the opportunity to seek education, seek whatever to improve 23 and get a better paying job, but I just don't think you can 24 bring up the bottom and think you're solving the problems. 25 Unless -- you have to move up everybody. That's just 9-26-11 145 1 inflationary, and you can't afford it. So, I mean, I really 2 -- I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't think 3 it gets there, and I don't think -- I think it goes against 4 my grain to do it that way. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, it's the same 6 thing as eliminating the 12 step and making 13. I mean, it's 7 exactly the same thing. This year we're talking about 8 eliminating the 14, going to 15. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're getting rid of all 10 that. My proposal is getting rid of all that. We're just 11 moving everyone up two steps. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- actually, I agree with 13 him. I'm not sure this is exactly how you do it, but I just 14 -- you know, the theory of getting those folks that are on 15 the bottom rung, getting them up to somewhere above the 16 bottom rung, I think that that should be our number one goal, 17 period. And then, you know, if you -- I had one phone call; 18 this lady called me and chewed me out pretty good, in several 19 different languages. And she's saying basically this; that 20 those people that are above that median, which is all of us, 21 are living really high on the hog. And I got to thinking 22 about that. We're not high on the hog, but it is -- 23 government employees, and we're living a little bit higher 24 than normal folks in the community, and that's a true 25 statement. So I don't -- I don't need a raise, but I -- I 9-26-11 146 1 know these people that are on the bottom rung, the worker 2 bees, need to be bumped up somehow. I'm not sure that -- I'm 3 not sure that a step is the way -- I mean, a point and a half 4 percent is the -- is exactly the way to do it. I have no 5 idea. I would think -- I agree with the Judge; it's probably 6 going to wear out some pencils. But we have a lot of 7 pencils. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how many we got, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't either, but that's 10 what we do, is work around here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll throw that step and grade 13 totally off if we -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd have to do it by the 15 step and grade. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you find some midpoint. And, 17 actually, you would have to create two different step and 18 grade schedules, one for the those above and one for those 19 below this median mark. And then once you do that, you got 20 some folks graduating above that line, and again -- I don't 21 know. I'm -- I'd let the bean counters work that out, but it 22 seems like a -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not real excited 24 about it, I can tell you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No, they've already voiced that 9-26-11 147 1 concern to me. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reason I mention it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I don't understand 5 about that is that if you bring it up -- you know, we get 6 everyone -- say we get everyone up to 30,000 a year, or 7 35,000 a year. That's our new minimum salary that we're 8 going to -- hypothetical -- have in the county. Well, what 9 we're saying then is that it doesn't matter what you do; 10 you're just going to get paid the same amount. I mean, you 11 know, why don't we just say, okay, our total budget for 12 payroll is "X," so let's just divide it equally and say we're 13 going to give every employee the same amount of money. 14 That's what y'all are doing; you're getting there. 15 Otherwise, the only way you don't is if you raise the whole 16 top part. And there are certain things -- I think that, you 17 know, our department heads are worth more than the people 18 they're supervising. That's why they're paid more. If you 19 keep on raising the ones at the bottom, you got to raise the 20 ones at top. Otherwise, eventually they're going to catch up 21 and all going to be paid the same. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long have been we been 23 raising the bottom up? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've raised the top up, too. 25 We give across-the-board increases. 9-26-11 148 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just answer the question. 2 We started out with number 12, and it bumped up. We're now 3 up to 15, so, I mean, this is not an overnight thing. This 4 is -- I think it's time to -- 5 MS. PIEPER: That happened with the Nash study, I 6 believe. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think this is time to 8 stop that? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think we've done it 10 some, and I think if you keep on doing it, you're going to 11 end up having to either increase across the board, or you're 12 going to make it so that all employees are -- get paid the 13 same. I mean, every year, if we go up one, eventually 14 everyone's going to be a 19. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I agree. I'm not -- 16 haven't been real fond of this whole thing at all. But it's 17 not like -- I mean, you're acting like this is suddenly -- 18 you know, sudden or something. We've been doing this five or 19 six years. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but we've always done 21 across-the-boards; we haven't picked out that lower group as 22 much, in my mind. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, for the first time, 25 probably, I'm going to agree with Jonathan on what he's 9-26-11 149 1 suggested. Because across the board, Buster and Guy, what 2 you're doing is you're raising those 13's two steps up above 3 that. You're bringing that bottom line up along with it, all 4 the way through, evenly. If you start doing the other -- and 5 most of the members on this Court can remember what we went 6 through a few years ago with our step and grade and having to 7 hire an outside person to help get it straightened out. It 8 took a lot of years for this Court to get the step and grade 9 set to where it is as fair as I think it can probably be. 10 We've had to add half steps in there. You did -- did all the 11 rest of this -- or half grades, I guess it was. And two 12 steps is not what was originally asked for. But, you know, 13 Jonathan hit on it. I know that Janie's doing a little bit 14 more on her part now, but these employees did their part for 15 the last several years, okay? 16 And I'm going to say something; I hope I don't 17 personally offend any of y'all, but if I do, I've been known 18 to do that in the past. But this Court -- and y'all all, and 19 all of us as elected officials have said we're not -- we 20 aren't government. We aren't trying to compare ourselves; we 21 don't want to be associated with how they do things in 22 Washington. But the way this started out early this year, 23 and the comments that were made at the very first budget 24 hearing and everything were, I thought, right on. You know, 25 this Court got applause from the people. Everybody on the 9-26-11 150 1 Court agreed that our employees need more. And then about 2 that time, it may have dawned on a few that this is an 3 election year coming up or whatever, and we started reverting 4 back right to the way they do it in Washington. You know, 5 "I'm more concerned about me than I am about our employees." 6 Your employees earned this part. They did their share over 7 the last number of years to take care of this. Now it's 8 y'all's turn to take care of the employees, and I think 9 Jonathan's two-step is right on and it gets the politics out. 10 Are we going to play politics, or are we going to take care 11 of Kerr County? Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did he say? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was being mad at me again. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: He's agreeing with Letz. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, on the contrary; I think he was 16 agreeing with you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was agreeing with me, though 18 -- but I don't agree with everything he said, though. 19 (Laughter.) He may have been agreeing with me, but I don't 20 necessarily agree with what he said. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Totally. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is this something we want to 24 finalize today? Do we want to chew on these numbers and -- 25 and -- 9-26-11 151 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need -- 2 MS. HARGIS: I think under law, I have to have a 3 book in front of you on the 29th that is what you have to 4 approve. I can't give you something that has the wrong 5 numbers. I have to have you make a decision today as to what 6 you're going to do. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if we say no? What 8 happens? 9 MS. HARGIS: Then we don't have a budget come the 10 first of the year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And that doesn't end 12 life, though. 13 MS. HARGIS: No, that means I don't pay payroll 14 after the first of October. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, ma'am, I've seen this 16 Court run a month or so without a budget. 17 MS. HARGIS: We have to have a tax rate, because by 18 law we have to have a tax rate. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 29th, we have to -- 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes. I need to have a budget -- 21 budget has to be approved before the tax rate. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to tell you 23 what I want to do today, okay? I'm not going to. These 24 gentlemen are welcome to do that. I will not tell you today. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I already told you what I want 9-26-11 152 1 to do. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, if someone wants to 3 put it in the form of a motion and throw it out there, well, 4 that's fine. If you want to look at more numbers, or if you 5 want to -- whatever, just defer on it, that's fine too. But 6 I put it on the agenda so that it's there and it's available 7 for us to act upon if -- if you want to. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion -- 9 MS. PIEPER: Before y'all decide anything, I had 10 came to y'all earlier and asked that my deputies that are 11 14's be moved to 15's, and I want to remind you why. And 12 that's because all of the District Clerk deputies who work 13 courts do the same thing that my deputies do that work 14 courts, and they would feel equal. I mean, because most of 15 mine are at 14's now, and I would like for them to be moved 16 to 15's. I mean, they do the same -- we all do the same 17 thing, between county courts and district courts. And I'm 18 not asking you for a raise on that point. Just take them 19 from their 14 grade -- step to the next level, to where it's 20 equal. And then if you, by chance, give them the two-step 21 increase or the cost-of-living on top of that, that they 22 would appreciate it, but I would -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's no financial impact 24 to what you're asking? 25 MS. PIEPER: There may be one. Do they -- 9-26-11 153 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 MS. HARGIS: That's the reason that we came up with 3 this scenario, is to -- that we don't have enough money with 4 the no-tax scenario to do everything. We just don't. The 5 cost of the 14's to 15's and the cost of moving some of the 6 people one step that have been asked, and then you multiply 7 that times the new variable, is around $135,000. If we take 8 that off the table, everybody gets two steps. Nobody gets 9 left out. Otherwise, then we can't get -- then those people 10 can't get it, and nobody else gets it. So, you have to 11 decide. 12 MS. PIEPER: Well, it was my understanding that -- 13 like I say, I had somebody that was a 14-3. If we move them 14 down to a 15-1, it's basically the same amount of money. 15 MS. HARGIS: They're only 14 -- if they're 14-3's, 16 but you have some 14-2's as well, and they get a two-step 17 increase when they move up. That's just the way -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 15-1 would be a one-step increase, 19 right? 20 MS. HARGIS: Right. Then you multiply that times 21 the COLA -- the new -- the other step increase. Then -- then 22 that multiplies it up more, because it's getting -- you have 23 to give more. It's just a -- it's a chain reaction. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you just limit it to a 25 two-step increase, the first person would go to a 15-2, and 9-26-11 154 1 that's the same. 2 MS. HARGIS: But they aren't at 15-2. Because of 3 the way the step -- the 14-3's go down to 15-1; that's the 4 only way they go right now. And then if I did it for her, 5 I'd have to do it for all the departments, so that's the 6 reason why I said we throw it out. We tried to do it. 7 MS. PIEPER: You don't have to do it for all 8 departments. All departments didn't come and request that on 9 the budget. I did. I -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, they did. They did. 11 MS. PIEPER: I requested it for my budget. 12 MS. HARGIS: After you requested it, they all did. 13 That's the problem. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, an alternate -- alternate 15 method here, if we just want to eliminate 14's, once you give 16 a two-step increase, you can convert those straight up to 15. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After the fact. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: At an equivalent amount, and then 19 they're all 15's. 20 MS. HARGIS: We can do that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So you can accomplish it that way. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through the step increase. And 23 later in the year -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Immediately after that, just 25 convert the -- 9-26-11 155 1 MS. HARGIS: Immediately after that, just move them 2 to the 15. But I don't think it's going to work that way, 3 though, but we'll see. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- I'm going to 5 throw my two cents at you, and I'm sure it's not going to 6 make some people happy. But you also have to remember 7 that -- and we all do, that the times we live in and the 8 people that pay our salaries have to factor into this thing 9 somewhere. This is business. This doesn't have anything to 10 do with whether I like somebody or whether I don't like 11 somebody. It takes both sides to make it work, and everybody 12 has to realize something out of it. And we are -- we've had 13 business people come in here and talk to us. They'd love to 14 get raises, but they can't because their businesses are down, 15 and they can't just adjust their prices accordingly. It's 16 kind of like we adjust the tax accordingly to whatever, you 17 know, we think people are worth. It's not that they're not 18 worth more; it's got nothing to do with it. It has to do 19 with what you can pay and still operate county government. 20 And, you know, so far as I'm concerned, no elected officials, 21 including myself, will get a dime out of whatever happens 22 this year. Those are the kind of things you do whenever your 23 economy's better and you have increased valuations and you 24 have an increase in your revenues. That is not happening. 25 I think we have to do just like everybody else 9-26-11 156 1 does. And I know I'm not going to be popular; you can throw 2 rocks at me all you want to. County employees, county 3 department heads, county elected officials do a good job. 4 But do you -- do we sit here -- and at least Jonathan's 5 proposal doesn't include a tax increase, which is what -- the 6 only thing I will support. If there's any -- any salary 7 increases that is a result of a tax increase, I will not vote 8 for it. I will not. I will not support it. I think that, 9 you know, yeah, we've all tightened our belts, but you know 10 what? We all have jobs, and there's some people that can't 11 say that. Some of our jobs with benefits are better than 12 what there is on the street, and it's not just -- you know, 13 you can't compare us to the city of Kerrville. We can't help 14 about them being irresponsible and overpaying. That's not 15 our problem. Our problem is running county government, and I 16 think we have to do it in such a way to where we run it like 17 a business. And it's time to do business, and it's not aimed 18 at hurting anybody. It is where we are and the time we live 19 in. So, there's my two cents. I'm talking about -- I would 20 support something up to 3 percent, but not for elected 21 officials. Everybody else. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused. I'll make a 23 motion and see what happens; probably nothing. I'll make a 24 motion that the only salary adjustments for all employees 25 will be a two-step increase. Elected officials are excluded; 9-26-11 157 1 however, those elected officials that took a pay cut last 2 year would get that cut back. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion. Do I hear a 4 second? 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Hearing no second, the motion dies 7 for lack of a second. Any other member of the Court have 8 anything they wish to offer at this time? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to know more about 10 Bruce's 3 -- 3 percent salary increase. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's something that 12 the Auditor ought to bring to us at the next meeting. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's on there. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's already on there. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is it there? Which one of 16 those is the 3 percent? Because you've got it in steps. 17 MS. HARGIS: The last one. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. The 1.4 -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- is 3 percent? Well, that 21 builds the reserves by 250,000 more dollars than Option 22 Number 1, which is a two-step, if I'm not mistaken. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or two point -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two-step. 9-26-11 158 1 MS. HARGIS: The 1.6 is a four -- is the original 2 4 percent, which is what you asked for. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The 2.6 is 4 percent? 4 MS. HARGIS: 1.6 is four. The 1.4 is three. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 1.4 is three. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The bottom option also 7 includes restoring the amount that some of us took cuts last 8 year, and I'm not in favor of doing that. But I'm also not 9 willing to go for any pay increases for elected officials. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could I ask a question? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was the -- the reason you 13 didn't go along with my motion because of the restoring? Or 14 because of the -- 'cause, I mean, this one -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but see, your -- but 16 what we wound up putting in reserves is $250,000 different. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, 250,000 is different, but 18 it's still almost 600,000 more than we're doing right now. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This allows us to put more 20 money in reserves, which is what we need. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 600,000. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it is -- you put 250 -- 23 you make it enough to where you don't have to worry about it 24 so much this next year. I'll put that in the form of a 25 motion, if we want to do that. I'd agree to the -- I'd agree 9-26-11 159 1 to go with a 3 percent increase for all employees and 2 department heads, excluding elected officials, and no 3 restoration of any money that we lost, those of us who took 4 pay cuts last year. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Three percent across the 6 board, and that's what your motion is? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Three percent across the 8 board to everybody except elected officials. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And no restoring of the funds 11 that we lost last year. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- I can't see the 13 amount of money that goes into the reserve fund. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's going to be -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New fund balance. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Under Jonathan's theory here, 17 it would be another -- actually, it would be almost -- about 18 250,000. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably a total of $850,000. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 850. 800,000 to 850,000 into 21 reserve. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 750, I'm sorry. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 750, I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, 750,000 new dollars to 25 reserves, and 3 percent salary increase. 9-26-11 160 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Employees, no elected 2 officials, and no tax increase. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's close. The only problem I 4 have is that your -- it's not a lot of the employees that 5 we're trying to help, the lower ones. It's all of them. 6 That's pretty -- pretty minor. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, I would -- I 8 would rather give a higher percentage to -- like what Buster 9 was saying a while ago, to some of the ones that are really 10 struggling, and less percent to the ones that are up in the 11 upper echelon, but that's hard to do, evidently. I'm not 12 saying to get everybody up to the same -- up to above the -- 13 what's called the median income. I'm just saying to get them 14 up closer to it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion. Do I hear 16 a second? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm going to second 18 it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 20 Question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- now, Bruce's 22 motion is -- is 3 percent, and Letz' motion was two steps. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five percent. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's 5 percent? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's 5 percent. 9-26-11 161 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both of them with no tax 2 increase. Just the difference that goes into building 3 reserves a little bit more. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. But yours had 5 everybody in it, including elected officials. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we're taking them out. 7 That will queer the deal every time to me. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you want to be heard? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I'll stress, at 13 least Jonathan's is -- and in trying to be decent, the 14 employees really have tried over the last couple of years, 15 gentlemen. They cut a total of close to 14 positions. Your 16 lower ones as well as your higher ones have had to pitch in 17 more and do more with less. The cost-of-living is way above 18 anything y'all have talked about in any of the increases. 19 They took home, because of the premiums on insurance a year 20 ago, about 6 percent less than what they were taking home the 21 year before, or they are now. Okay? They already paid -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We've already heard this a 23 number of times. How many more times do we got to listen to 24 it? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, because I hope that one 9-26-11 162 1 time -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not going to change my 3 mind, I'm sorry. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not saying a tax increase, 5 Bruce, okay? What I'm saying is, you've got a lot of good, 6 dedicated employees here, gentlemen, and 3 percent is not 7 going to even make up what they lost. And you asked a lot of 8 department heads and a lot of elected officials to work with 9 you all through last year, and trying and do the best we 10 could to get us through last year. They did that. And now 11 you have a chance of still putting half a million in reserves 12 and giving those employees back what they did and rewarding 13 them for what they did, and not slapping them. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, my motion may not 15 fly, Rusty. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sheriff, I, again, appreciate 17 your comments, and I would just say this. You know, I'm only 18 going up to January of coming in this year. I don't doubt it 19 one bit that this group here and the department heads and 20 these folks do a fantastic job. I've been -- that's one of 21 the most impressive things that I've seen since just being 22 here the short time that I've been here. But, again, it gets 23 back to the economy, where we are right now. And I -- it's 24 not there in the community with businesses and where things 25 are at. People aren't getting raises. It's not that you 9-26-11 163 1 don't deserve it. You deserve it. But, again, it's just 2 where we are in the economy. And I think that as we look at 3 it down the road, I -- I still would like to do more for 4 those that are underneath the median income. But if it can't 5 be done because of the situation of too many pencils are 6 going to be used, then I -- Commissioner Oehler, I would -- I 7 like your idea of the 3 percent. Anybody else? Mr. Bollier? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, Your Honor. The 3 percent 9 that you're proposing up there isn't going to keep anybody 10 that works here from -- from Kerr County from not having a 11 second job. But the only problem I have with the whole thing 12 is that if you read your policy handbook, your policy 13 handbook states in there that you're -- as an employee of 14 Kerr County, you cannot have a second job if it interferes 15 with your county responsibilities. So, that leaves my 16 maintenance department all the way out, because my people are 17 on call 24/7. And I have two people down there that are 18 living -- they are living way under the poverty level, and I 19 just want to throw that out to you, because I don't think 20 that's fair to ask those guys to sit at home and either not 21 pay bills, or not do -- or do without a meal. I don't think 22 that's right. And that's all I have to throw out there. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: May need to change the 24 policy. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else have anything to offer 9-26-11 164 1 in connection with that? There's no secret where I stand. I 2 think the employees have created a savings, and they -- 3 number one, they deserve consideration for doing that, plus 4 they've taken on additional job responsibilities, additional 5 tasks. It's just like we changed their job description, and 6 it's a pretty time-honored approach around here to -- when 7 you change somebody's job description and increase their 8 duties, then you adjust the compensation accordingly. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you what -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Broken record. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll withdraw my motion, and 12 we'll throw it out there and see if there's anybody else that 13 wants to make a motion to get it up. And we're working on 14 the amount of reserves that we're going to put in next year. 15 If somebody has a better idea and thinks that we can live on 16 less reserve and give employees more, I'm game. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a stab, then. Get us 18 no tax increase, with a 1.6 step increase for employees. 19 Elected officials will not receive any increase. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1.6. That's a compromise. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Restoration, yes or no? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So the 1.6 is going to be 25 four? Or is there -- 9-26-11 165 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's underneath four, though. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's about four, but it's -- 4 maybe it's right under four; I don't know. But it's -- to 5 me, see, I don't like using the percentage, 'cause then it's 6 like across-the-board. To me, it's a merit increase, 7 basically. It's a one-step increase and a COLA -- and a 8 small COLA, is how I look at it. Because we have truly 9 increased the responsibility of every employee in the county, 10 and that's a merit increase to do that. It's not a 11 cost-of-living. Nothing to do with cost-of-living. So, it's 12 a one-step increase on the merit side, and then the .6 would 13 be the COLA side, if you want to look at it like that. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: .6? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a .6 COLA, but it's how 16 that works. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing for elected 18 officials, no restoral, no nothing? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half percent COLA. A 20 one-step and one and a half percent. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's what my initial deal 22 was, but it was focusing in on the bottom part of it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The main thing is, this can 24 all be done with the cuts that we made, and no tax increase. 25 I will second your motion. 9-26-11 166 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for an 2 equivalent four -- total 4 percent increase, excluding 3 elected officials, with no restoration of elected official 4 cuts, premised on zero tax increase, additional savings to go 5 to -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I make a slight amendment 7 to that? And the reason is -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the restoration, leave it up 10 to the elected officials. Because -- and I won't, but 11 there's some other -- I know the County Attorney and some of 12 these other -- Diane and Jannett, they did, and if they 13 choose -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jannett didn't. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't? Okay. Well, anyway, 16 any of them that did, I don't think they should be penalized. 17 We're the ones making the decisions. I think they should -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's a good move. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Amend it that way for others 22 -- other officials that took cuts to have theirs restored to 23 the level it was last year. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what does this do -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not Commissioners Court. 9-26-11 167 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to the amount of money 3 that goes into reserve? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll be -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 650. 650, 700, somewhere 7 in there -- thousand. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was my goal, is try to 9 get 650,000 to 700,000 in reserve. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you agree with that, 11 Mrs. Auditor? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 650? 14 MS. HARGIS: 650 to 700. I don't have the exact 15 number here, but it's basically what I gave you. If you look 16 at the difference between the steps, the -- it's $100,497 17 between steps, so you have to move down to the five. It's 18 150,745 less than the -- the original, and that brings us to 19 2 million, 6. Keep in mind that the 157 added to the 493 is 20 600 thousand. Regardless of what you do, you're going to put 21 600, you know, in there regardless. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we could put close to 24 800,000. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9-26-11 168 1 MS. HARGIS: Because the savings on the insurance 2 is $650,000, and then the savings on giving everybody the 3 same and taking off is another 135,000. So, by taking that 4 off the table, in any scenario, you're putting almost 5 $800,000 back into the fund balance, because of the savings 6 we made for insurance, and then taking the different -- 7 moving the 14's to 15's and so forth. The 14's to 15's when 8 we analyzed that and I did that on a sheet, there were, I 9 want to say, 14 of them. Out of the 14, about half of those 10 are non-filled positions. In other words, they're positions 11 that we have that we -- we're going to -- you could fill, and 12 they would originally come in at a 14-1. They've now been 13 moved to a 15-1. But the cost of those alone was around 14 87,000, 90,000. And then, again, the multiplier times that 15 increase, you know, raised your FICA and withholding, 16 retirement and so forth. 17 So, you're going to save 650,000 regardless of what 18 you do, unless you get real rich with the insurance. And 19 that's the reason why I'm leaving the premium in there for 20 you, because you haven't decided what kind of plan that you 21 want. That gives you the flexibility to decide how much you 22 want to save by what premium you spend. The buy-up premium 23 is -- it gives you a savings of 483,000, originally. The -- 24 the original savings that we had for the plan we currently 25 have today is 493. And when Gary Looney came back and you 9-26-11 169 1 took away the commission and all of that, then you got 2 another $157,000 savings, so there's your 650 right away. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait a 4 minute. Just a second, though. But I understood him to say 5 that the 157 would probably need to be applied to our little 6 savings card. 7 MS. HARGIS: Again, that's the Court's option, not 8 mine. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. 10 But shouldn't we do that? Shouldn't we do that? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'm in favor. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As opposed to adding it to a 13 pot over here, we probably need to use that for that card. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in there. 15 MS. HARGIS: It's in there. That's why I'm saying 16 if you add the 157 or you don't add the 157, but when you 17 take the 135 off the table, give everybody the same, you add 18 the 135 to the almost 500,000. There's your -- you're right 19 at 650. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 21 MS. HARGIS: So you save 650 in every single 22 scenario. It's just a matter of how much more you want to 23 save, all right? That gets you to where you want to be. But 24 to me, that was equal to everyone. That's the reason why I 25 brought this scenario to you. By taking that off the table, 9-26-11 170 1 the 14's that were 14-1's and 2's, we didn't -- you know, 2 they have now moved two steps. We don't really have that 3 many 14-1s, 14-2's. Like I said, half of them are non-filled 4 positions right now. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. With this increase 6 that Commissioner Letz has mentioned here, all the other 7 increases above -- all the others merits, elevators, those 8 have all gone away, correct? This is just across-the-board 9 right now? 10 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any other questions? 13 Comments? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a good point or bad 15 point? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. Kind of stern. 17 I'm with you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of stern. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm thinking Y.O. here with 20 all the new money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just for clarity -- I see you, 23 Bruce -- what are you going to do with the policy that you 24 had in place between the chief deputy and the Sheriff? Just 25 for clarity. It does affect the elected officials. The 9-26-11 171 1 other thing I will say is what Janie -- what Janie did today 2 and with what y'all did today on signing the interlocal 3 agreement, that interlocal agreement, with the increase in 4 the city, is going to -- to generate between 40,000 and 5 50,000 for the county this year. And then Janie's on top of 6 that -- 7 MS. HARGIS: That's already reflected in these 8 numbers. 9 MR. HENNEKE: Is there a policy on that? 10 MS. HARGIS: That's the other thing. There's 11 really not a policy -- I'm afraid that we're finding all 12 kinds of things. There's no policy that says that in the 13 life of an employee, you get to give them a 2.5 increase four 14 times. There's no policy. There's a policy that goes back 15 to 1998; it talks about longevity and education, but there's 16 nothing that says that an elected official has the authority 17 to come before you and you automatically approve a 2.5 18 increase. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His policy's different. His 20 policy, the Sheriff-to-chief deputy policy. 21 MS. HARGIS: No. 22 MR. HENNEKE: Does that exist? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That was by court order. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By court order. 25 MS. HARGIS: By court order. There is a court 9-26-11 172 1 order for that one. I've seen it, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, just -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just don't think he ought 4 to get it if nobody else is. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the chief deputy 6 doesn't get paid more. Or he can always give you part -- you 7 can give part of yours to Rusty. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can reduce the chief 9 deputy back to a lesser -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I made a motion. He seconded 12 it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? Okay. All 14 in favor of this motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what does that -- what 20 does that vote right there mean? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now we have a tax rate we can 22 look at. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So there's no reason for us 25 to come back in here on Monday? 9-26-11 173 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thursday. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean Thursday. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we'll be here Thursday. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got to vote on the tax rate 5 and a budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the -- is there any other 7 budget matters that need to be brought before the Court 8 today? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Two. I would like to make a 10 request from the Commissioners Court to approve $5,000 more 11 for the K.E.D.C. economic development group, to go from 15 to 12 20. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the original 14 number? 25? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The original was 25. They 17 requested 20 for this year. We met with them. They had 18 requested to go from 15 to 20; it was a $5,000 increase. So, 19 I make a motion for that to go from 15 to 20 for this year. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, what happened was before 21 we met with them, we'd hit on 15. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then we met with them, and -- 24 and they urged us to please consider their reduced request 25 for this year of 20. 9-26-11 174 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We started at 25. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we started at 25. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But they scaled it back 20 4 percent this year on all requests, and so their request for 5 us was 20. We had agreed to do 15. We met with them. Their 6 request to the Court was to request for 20 for this year. 7 It's a $5,000 increase from what we had agreed to. But, 8 again, that's their original request for this year, is 20. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: To all the -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- governmental stakeholders, 12 excluding E.I.C., of course. Theirs is more. That's a 13 motion. Do I hear a second? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'll second it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Now, 16 question or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a little more 18 confidence in that group than what I had prior to having our 19 meeting with them the other day, because we had -- basically 20 had no communication. And I believe that the new leader over 21 there will bring some things to the county that will be 22 beneficial. That's the only reason I seconded the motion. 23 Otherwise, I would have said give them nothing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I agree with your 25 statement the other day. You know, if they're 9-26-11 175 1 entertaining -- let us know about it, you know. And I guess 2 that's all. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, as Commissioner Overby has 4 said before, you know, sometimes he can't -- he couldn't talk 5 about the things he was doing. These folks are in the same 6 position because of the confidentiality aspect, and -- but in 7 terms of generalities, they can certainly communicate, like 8 they did the other day, and let us know what they have kind 9 of sort of working, as it were. Any other question? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm willing to restore it 11 back to the 20, and -- but, boy, I tell you what, if I don't 12 see a change, I mean, that's -- this is the last shot. It 13 will be strike three, far as I'm concerned. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm with you. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 17 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. You said you 22 had one other? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One last question. Our 24 volunteer fire departments. We're doing the 50; is that 25 correct? That's what's in the budget right now? Okay. 9-26-11 176 1 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're spreading 50? 3 MS. HARGIS: We spread the 50. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just wanted to 5 double-check. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would love to be able to do 7 another 50, but I hope we can do that next year. I think we 8 can -- I think, you know, they have -- of course, as always, 9 do a mighty fine job. They've had a lot of expenses this 10 year. I think this will help them. But I don't think we 11 ought to forget about them for next year, either. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's the reason I why I 13 wanted to bring that up. I agree to look at this again next 14 year. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They get some additional 16 funding, just like -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Everybody. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- employees, but not to the 19 level that we hoped we could do. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on budgetary 21 matters to come up to this point? Anything else? 22 MS. BOLIN: Just a real quick question. The 23 elected officials get knocked out of the -- any kind of an 24 increase. Did y'all allow me to get back to where I was last 25 year? 9-26-11 177 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We did that. 2 MS. BOLIN: Yes, and I appreciate that. But why 3 wouldn't the elected officials not get a pay increase, and 4 the department heads get a pay increase? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause we're elected 6 officials. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully next year -- I mean, 8 it appears to me that the worst of the -- of our financial 9 issues are behind us. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's hope so. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And even -- I mean, the economy 12 certainly wasn't booming this year, and we were able to do 13 quite a bit. I think that hopefully that'll continue, and at 14 some point, I think elected officials need to be taken care 15 of, because they do have increases as well, and they're a 16 vital part of the county, obviously. And I think that, you 17 know, hopefully next year we'll be able to continue to 18 give -- get the employees back a little bit of what they 19 lost. 20 MS. HARGIS: May I make a suggestion? Perhaps if 21 -- if our fund balance comes up at a higher level during the 22 year, then y'all might consider paying some of those folks a 23 little extra then, moving the 14's up and so forth in the 24 middle of the year. We can look at it and see how the sales 25 tax is. 9-26-11 178 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can certainly look at it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can look at it, but 3 elected officials can't get an increase in the middle of the 4 year. You got to give notification on that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 MS. HARGIS: But the -- the 14's to the 15's, at 7 that point might be easier to bring them up in the middle of 8 the year than -- and that way, we can get a good count on it, 9 get you the right numbers. And, actually, not that many 10 people are in those categories. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Anything else to 12 come before the Court at this meeting? We're adjourned. 13 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 1:15 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 STATE OF TEXAS | 16 COUNTY OF KERR | 17 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 18 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 19 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 20 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 21 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of October, 22 2011. 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 9-26-11