1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 4 and 5 KERRVILLE ECONOMIC IMPROVEMENT CORPORATION BOARD 6 Joint Meeting 7 Friday, October 14, 2011 8 7:30 a.m. 9 Commissioners' Courtroom 10 Kerr County Courthouse 11 Kerrville, Texas 12 13 14 PRESENT: 15 Kerr County Commissioners Court: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 16 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 17 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 18 19 Kerrville EIC Board: GREG APPEL, President 20 STACIE KEEBLE, Member REX BOYLAND, Member 21 22 Visitors: MIKE ERWIN, City of Kerrville Finance Director 23 MINDY WENDELE, Kerrville Business Programs Director TREVOR HYDE, Kerrville Economic Development Corporation 24 TRACI CARLSON, Kerrville Chamber of Commerce DENNY FOSTER, Kerrville Chamber of Commerce Board 25 2 1 On Friday, October 14, 2011, at 7:30 a.m., a joint 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go ahead and get 8 started. Let me call to order this special meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court and the Kerrville Economic 10 Development Corporation posted and scheduled for today, 11 Friday, October 14, 2011, at 7:30 a.m. It is a bit past that 12 time now. Glad to have you folks come over here and join us. 13 The stated purpose is to discuss Economic Development 14 Strategic Plan and prioritize proposed projects, whatever 15 that means, I suppose. So, Guy, why don't you talk about 16 what we've got on our radar screen from the county standpoint 17 that we have an interest in. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. Judge, and again, our 19 E.I.C. members today, thanks for the opportunity to visit 20 with you today, just to kind of -- I know that you folks have 21 met with Council and you guys have been talking about looking 22 at what priorities or what projects that you've been wanting 23 to hear from the different entities in the community, and we 24 did send over a list. I think Greg and I, we had visited 25 about, that and the Judge, and we talked about our list of 10-14-11 CC/EIC 3 1 priorities here at the county. Of course, two significant 2 projects that are very important from the County's 3 standpoint, of course, is the infrastructure project out in 4 east Kerr County, the water and wastewater projects that 5 Commissioner Letz is very much involved with, and the 6 Commissioners Court is, and myself with him, you know, 7 looking at trying to help the community of Center Point and 8 east Kerr County to get those type of infrastructure 9 services, and how important it is to help get folks off of 10 septic issues that we have out there, and to make that a -- a 11 cleaner environment out there for the long-term, but also for 12 water use as well, to help in those areas. So, that is one 13 of the big projects that we have that's ongoing. I know that 14 Commissioner Letz and I have been involved with that, and we 15 are still in the first phase of feasibility part of that, but 16 we are nearing the wastewater completion side of that; 17 hopefully in January or February, the way things are going, 18 that we hope to have that complete. And I know Commissioner 19 Letz might want to add some things and add to that. 20 MR. APPEL: Yeah. If you could, I mean, I -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Go ahead. 22 MR. APPEL: I'm aware that that project's out 23 there. I just would love to hear just kind of an overview, 24 what all would be involved, how those services could be 25 brought in, and if you have any idea about cost and things 10-14-11 CC/EIC 4 1 like that. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- and I guess the overview 4 of the project is, it got started by Commissioner Williams 5 because of -- of pretty significant septic issues in the 6 Center Point area, and septic issues relate directly to water 7 quality in the Guadalupe River. That's what got the whole 8 issue started. As it got going, it made sense to include 9 water as an issue too, because east Kerr County has an 10 aquifer issue more than much of the rest of the county. The 11 aquifer -- there's areas where we can get pretty good wells; 12 other areas you get very poor wells and the water quality 13 diminishes. It's kind of -- it's very erratic, so it's been 14 an issue. And I think the third thing we started looking at 15 from a -- as a consequence of those things, and in the area, 16 it's probably one of the most economically developable areas 17 of the county, 'cause it's the only flat part of the county. 18 So, all those things were there. 19 So, the County got behind the -- the wastewater 20 side of it. U.G.R.A. took -- because they control about, you 21 know, 2,000 acre feet right now of water rights, as a -- as 22 the water side of it. And we've been working kind of in 23 tandem with the Water Development Board in developing a plan. 24 And the -- the plan right now is essentially that this would 25 be centered on the Center Point area, kind of a little bit 10-14-11 CC/EIC 5 1 around that. You pick up as many of the high-density areas 2 as you could, and then you would take a wastewater line -- 3 two options. One, pump it back to Kerrville, and the other 4 option is to gravity flow it to Comfort. We've talked to the 5 Kendall County Water Improvement District Number 1. They 6 have a huge excess capacity in their plant. They did an 7 upgrade several years -- probably 10 years ago. They're only 8 occupying about 20 percent capacity right now. 9 Kerrville has -- does not have that much capacity 10 left. They do have some, but they can also be upgraded. The 11 cost is about the same to pump to it Kerrville or gravity 12 flow the wastewater to Comfort. Not a whole lot of 13 difference there, but the advantage to going to Comfort is 14 that it opens up a large area for some development, whether 15 it be commercial or residential, and it also -- you could 16 pull in -- there's quite a few small developments, one down 17 here by Calvary Temple Church. There's another one closer to 18 Comfort called Boardwalk, where J3 is. You know, those are 19 pretty high density areas. They -- and those can be tied 20 into the system too. They all -- all those properties have 21 septic issues. So, you know, that was kind of the -- the 22 direction it goes. 23 Where we are -- and water pretty much goes -- the 24 water part of it was, U.G.R.A. would build a small treatment 25 plant with one option in the Center Point area using ASR 10-14-11 CC/EIC 6 1 storing, similar to what City of Kerrville does. Option 2 is 2 to work out a deal with City of Kerrville, work to expand the 3 water treatment plant that Kerrville has, expand the ASR in 4 Kerrville, and pipe the water down to Center Point, and then 5 start treatment from there. U.G.R.A. doesn't want to get 6 into the retail side of it. Current -- but they are -- you 7 know, their idea is to wholesale the water. Kendall County 8 Water Improvement District can expand into Kerr County under 9 their rules and bylaws; it's not a real problem for them. 10 There's also -- most of the -- all these areas are served by 11 the -- we're talking about are served by water systems. 12 MR. APPEL: Privately owned? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aqua Texas is by far the 14 largest. They do most of Center Point. Wiedenfeld is 15 probably the second largest. We talked to them. Of course, 16 the issue that comes up on water is, you know, they're 17 getting sort of free groundwater right now, and as long as 18 they have that sort of free groundwater, there's not a great 19 incentive to start buying water. But part of the grant, I 20 think, requirement is they would have to be hooked up. 21 They'd have to hook up. 22 MR. APPEL: Are there water quality problems 23 with -- with the water service in Center Point right now? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, some. Not real -- not as 25 much. The wells in Center Point are pretty good, but there 10-14-11 CC/EIC 7 1 are areas around there that the water gets a lot more sulfur 2 and iron in it. If you get over into -- this really isn't 3 affected by the project, but if you get closer to Comfort, 4 especially on the north side of Comfort, you do get a water 5 quality issue of radon being in the water pretty hard. 6 There's some subdivisions on the north side of Comfort that 7 are having, really, just major upgrades to fix that problem 8 as you filter out the radon. But it's a -- you know, 9 T.C.E.Q. gets pretty concerned at the levels they're at right 10 now. Falling Water is the main subdivision that that's an 11 issue right now, but that's really not part of the project, 12 unless you pipe water up there at some point. But that's 13 kind of the -- the overall -- what the projects are. 14 We are in the, I guess -- I don't know -- five-step 15 process, with five being construction; we're probably at two. 16 We're not quite finished with two yet, I don't think. We're 17 really at the feasibility. We've done the initial analysis 18 as to where the -- what makes the most sense. These were 19 funded by grants primarily through the Texas Water 20 Development Board. And we're both trying -- U.G.R.A. and the 21 County, trying to finish up the second phase of the planning 22 portion -- or I guess feasibility portion, really. Next 23 step, if we can get past this step, which has been a 24 challenge because of some environmental requirements that we 25 didn't think should have been there originally, but they are 10-14-11 CC/EIC 8 1 there, so we're having to deal with them, would be more an 2 actual planning phase would come next. Total cost of the 3 projects, both of them, we're probably looking at 25 to 30 4 million. It's large. 5 The Water Development Board has ranked these very 6 highly on their -- some of their state-funded -- of course, 7 state funding's been cut back quite a bit. It would be some 8 sort of a -- probably a loan. The grants are getting fewer 9 and fewer, but there may be some grants in there still. And 10 if -- you know, that's kind of -- you know, but we're a long 11 ways from that. I mean, if we could fast-track this, we're 12 probably 7 to 10 years from construction. I think the -- and 13 the assistance for the next, probably, five years may be 14 grant matches, to -- to further the feasibility. And I 15 imagine a full feasibility, if you get to that point, for 16 both projects, you're looking at, you know, maybe two, three 17 million. And if you're looking at a match of, you know, 18 maybe a 5, 10 percent, something like that would be our 19 guess, that's kind of what we're looking at as needed funding 20 in the short term. And at this point -- 21 MR. APPEL: Five to 10 percent of that two or three 22 million dollars? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, something like that would 24 be a -- you know, the County and U.G.R.A. probably are going 25 to have to come up -- U.G.R.A. obviously has other sources -- 10-14-11 CC/EIC 9 1 so do we -- beyond E.I.C., but it's -- that's the dollars 2 we're looking at. And then the County's going to have -- 3 Commissioners Court and U.G.R.A. Board's going to really have 4 to look long and hard when we get to the actual cost as to 5 how much, if this is worth it economically. U.G.R.A.'s 6 really having a hard time because of the water issue. It's 7 free water right now, and it's kind of -- and then you start 8 putting that kind of -- the -- you know, it's real hard to 9 put economic growth in any kind of a plan for paying for it, 10 so have you to look at kind of what's there. And it doesn't 11 work economically right now. It's real difficult to figure 12 out exactly how you can put it all together, unless you can 13 get a huge, you know, federal or state grant and get most of 14 it constructed. And that's a possibility, because of the 15 water issues and the sewer and septic issues. So, you know, 16 there's funding there. It's just a matter of how you get 17 there. That's kind of, I guess, an overview of it. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What I'll just add on with 19 that is just that, as we've looked for the future development 20 and growth of Kerr County, I think Commissioner Letz has said 21 it very well; you know, we all know that the topography out 22 in eastern Kerr County, those areas are essential for -- for 23 building, for workforce housing development and those type of 24 things. You know, we're already starting to see, with 25 Kendall County and businesses that are in that area that are 10-14-11 CC/EIC 10 1 trying to pull from four different counties for workforce 2 areas and efforts, and I will -- I know a company right now 3 that's locating -- expanding from Kendall County into Kerr 4 County right now. They're -- they're currently using about 5 15 workers right now. Probably 12 or 13 of those are coming 6 out of Kerr County right now who are working there now. And 7 they're looking at expanding into Kerr County, and in this 8 same corridor we're talking about, and doubling their 9 workforce, what they have now. So, I think for the purposes 10 for workforce housing, the water and wastewater 11 infrastructure out in that area, it's going to be a very 12 important part for Kerr County, Kerrville, Gillespie, 13 Bandera, all of Kendall, all in that area there for this 14 project moving forward. And I will say that Commissioner 15 Letz -- and I really appreciate coming in -- for me this year 16 coming in for Commissioner Williams, the appointment coming 17 in, Commissioner Williams had most of the knowledge of this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And I will tell you that that 20 was one thing, in trying to get my arms around everything, 21 Commissioner Letz has been, you know, valuable in coming in, 22 helping get a good feel for that, and I've kind of been 23 brought along with it as we go. So, it's kind of a working 24 together effort on this infrastructure project, but it's a 25 number of -- it's a high priority for us to look at. 10-14-11 CC/EIC 11 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- and I think if you 2 just look -- you know, I'm sure we all drive down from 3 Kerrville to Comfort on 27. If you just look right now, I 4 mean, businesses are locating there right now. I mean, some 5 of them are great looking, and some of them, like the 6 recycling plant -- you know, it's obviously doing very well, 7 but not necessarily the most attractive thing along the 8 highway. But there are more -- and I think that's an area, 9 and it's -- there are quite a few developers that own 10 property along that corridor that would like to develop it, 11 but because of the current rules, it's just not economic. I 12 mean, it's a 5-acre lot size right now, and they just can't 13 get there. You can't do any kind of a, you know, moderate, 14 middle income type of, you know, housing. 15 Just outside of Comfort right now, really right on 16 the county line coming into Kerr County, there's two property 17 owners that they're just, you know, hoping this thing goes 18 through, because they have property that will be great to 19 develop. And Comfort is not an incorporated community, so 20 the area is really kind of defined more by the -- the water 21 improvement district. And they've looked at this, and 22 Kendall County has more severe water problems than Kerr 23 County, and because of that, they have -- the growth or the 24 ability -- no new lots can be created around Comfort right 25 now. The process prohibits it. They have to have a 6-acre 10-14-11 CC/EIC 12 1 minimum lot size; you just can't get there. The properties 2 are way too valuable to start looking at close to half a 3 million dollars just for a lot cost, and, you know, you just 4 can't get -- so they look at moving into Kerr County as 5 really how that community as a whole in the area can grow. 6 Which is good for us, because it increases our tax base. I 7 mean, the more of those businesses that we can get into Kerr 8 County, the better. And residential and commercial. 9 MR. APPEL: Is it -- is it completely infeasible 10 for Aqua Texas to convert their private water system to 11 groundwater source, as opposed to wells, to meet the water 12 needs? Is that not an option? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's -- you mean for them 14 to buy the surplus water from U.G.R.A.? Yeah, it's certainly 15 an option. But, you know, Aqua Texas is a -- is a private 16 company, and as long as they can get their groundwater 17 relatively free, it's going to be hard for them to buy 18 surplus water. I mean, it's -- you know, it's an economic -- 19 they got infrastructure that's in place. 20 MR. APPEL: Is it -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As they start running out of 22 water, don't have the access to the water, or the aquifer's 23 diminished or Headwaters comes in with rules that cuts it 24 back a little bit, I think it becomes more and more 25 attractive for them. The other option is that they can see 10-14-11 CC/EIC 13 1 a -- a mechanism that in their CCN, there's areas that can be 2 developed, and they could increase their -- you know, the 3 amount of water they're selling. 4 MR. APPEL: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You also get into the issue of 6 who handles the billing and all that. I mean, we really 7 haven't talked to Aqua Texas a whole lot about them handling 8 that part of that and working with them. I think that 9 discussion needs to take place, but I don't know if you all 10 have ever dealt with Aqua Texas; it's kind of hard to get an 11 answer. 12 MR. APPEL: Is it -- is it just groundwater versus 13 surface water that's the water issue? Or does it also have 14 to do with where the lines are and where the service area 15 boundaries fall in trying to expand the areas that would have 16 access to a private -- to a water system? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they have all CCN's. 18 They'll expand the CCN's as development comes, so I don't 19 think it's really an access -- it's really going to be more a 20 conversion to surface water. And, you know, I think that all 21 of the existing CCN's in that area have room to expand, and 22 if they -- if a development was to go in, the only way they 23 could get it right now under the current rules, the county 24 rules and city rules, is that -- you know, say a developer 25 wanted to put a new subdivision in the Center Point area. If 10-14-11 CC/EIC 14 1 they were, they would probably try -- if they were not in the 2 CCN, they would probably go to Aqua Texas, have the CCN 3 expanded to include them so they could go a little bit higher 4 density. 5 MR. APPEL: Does the 25 to 30 million dollars for 6 the project include basically putting in a completely 7 separate water system, or does it involve tying into -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tying into. Tying into -- 9 MR. APPEL: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the existing system. It 11 would be a complete septic system, but it would be tying into 12 the water system. Because the -- I mean, there's no -- 13 U.G.R.A. has kind of been our partner on that side. They're 14 handling that part of the grant completely. They have 15 expressed no interest in being a retail provider. They want 16 to be a wholesaler, and so they would -- you know, and we 17 don't want to get into retail on either side of the county. 18 So, we've talked to either -- you know, whoever gets the 19 sewage, from our standpoint, whether it was Kerrville or -- 20 or Comfort, we would then talk to that entity to handle the 21 billing, the cost to do all that. It's something that we 22 have no interest in, and it's just -- a commercial sale 23 doesn't make sense. It -- talking with -- with W.C. & I.D. 24 in Comfort, they wouldn't require a staff increase. Only 25 thing it would require is probably -- they're estimating two 10-14-11 CC/EIC 15 1 to three, probably, new employees in the field. That's it. 2 And so they can absorb it, really. It's a benefit to them 3 for the economy of scale. It's -- we haven't talked nearly 4 as much to City of Kerrville, because the current direction 5 is to go more towards Comfort, really, because it helps -- 6 it's a bigger service area then. 7 MR. APPEL: So, 5 to 10 percent of two to three 8 million, we're talking about 150,000 to 300,000. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 MR. APPEL: To go towards the -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that would get you -- that 12 amount would probably get you to an actual plan, you know, 13 feasibility, maybe a planning study. And that would be the 14 next -- the options are either Water Development Board, some 15 of their funds, or possibly Department of Agriculture. 16 They've got -- under their umbrella, they've got funds for 17 rural infrastructure. 18 MR. APPEL: Okay. 19 MR. BOYLAND: You said sewerage flowing to Kendall 20 County right now is about 80 percent excess capacity. How 21 much would that be for the eastern part of the county? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It might take them up to about 23 40 percent capacity. 24 MR. BOYLAND: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they can get them. I mean, 10-14-11 CC/EIC 16 1 they really expanded because they thought Comfort was going 2 to grow. Then they changed subdivision rules in Kendall 3 County, and pretty much said no more. There's still -- 4 MR. APPEL: Seems like they would stand to benefit 5 quite a bit from getting -- getting to increase their 6 capacity. I wonder if there would be a potential partial 7 funding source for that project, you know, the fact that it 8 would increase their plant capacity. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've talked to them. We're 10 not far enough along. They certainly have an interest. And 11 you get into -- it gets very complicated. I don't want to 12 gloss over it as a simple project, because what happens, you 13 get into return flows in the river; all of a sudden, who gets 14 credit for water that's coming out of the sewage plant? If 15 you're talking Kerr County water being put back into Kendall 16 County, then U.G.R.A. or whoever it is that's doing the water 17 is going to want to get credit for that back upstream, and 18 you're talking about crossing the county line. That's an 19 issue that you have to still work out. And there's certainly 20 a value there. U.G.R.A., this has been a big concern 21 for them. Under their charter, they can't do anything in 22 Kendall. They -- they can't -- I mean, it is only a Kerr 23 County entity, and they are prohibited from crossing the 24 county line. So, all of a sudden, you have that issue there, 25 so there's got to be some interlocal, probably. I didn't 10-14-11 CC/EIC 17 1 mention it, but Kerr County has a -- kind of a -- floating 2 out in space somewhere, 6,000 acre feet committed to it from 3 Guadalupe-Blanco River Authority out of Canyon Lake. You 4 know, is there a way we can move that upstream to get it? 5 'Cause it's not feasible, obviously, to pipe from it Canyon 6 Lake, so there's that out there. So, there's a whole lot of 7 the -- of water issues as to, you know, how you do all that, 8 and we're just -- that's what that next phase would be, is to 9 sort all that out. U.G.R.A. has looked quite a bit at trying 10 to figure out in valuing available rights beyond the permit 11 that they share with the city of Kerrville, and it's -- and 12 there's lots of options there, but that's all very complex 13 too. The reality is to get this thing built, you're going to 14 probably have to work out some kind of deal with 15 Guadalupe-Blanco. You have to get T.C.E.Q. and Water 16 Development on board, not to mention all the federal 17 agencies. It's -- it's not an easy project, but it's one 18 that, you know, is worth pursuing. It's doable, but it's -- 19 it's a long-term project. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think, Commissioner Letz, 21 that was one thing coming into the appointment or position; I 22 thought we were in about the design and engineering phase. 23 No. I think Commissioner Letz has said it very clearly, that 24 we are in the -- of the five phases, we are in the latter 25 part of the feasibility part of this process. We're probably 10-14-11 CC/EIC 18 1 in the fourth, you know, fifth area of those areas. But this 2 is a long-term process. State funding, with the economic 3 situation that we're in right now, funding's going to be more 4 challenging. We're working as much as we can to try to keep 5 it moving forward, but it's something that, for the long-term 6 benefit of Kerrville and Kerr County and what's best for our 7 area, we have to keep moving forward with it. So, that's our 8 effort with them. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And another thing just that 10 adds into the mix is that -- probably some of y'all are 11 aware; Bob Waller's been kind of spearheading another 12 reservoir between -- between Comfort and Kerrville -- I mean 13 Center Point and Kerrville. That would play into this. If 14 you could get another -- you know, and it's more of a small 15 reservoir, not a big lake, but something more like, as I hear 16 it called, Sunset Lake type idea. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Guy, you want to talk about some 18 other projects? We need to move it along. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy's going to have to go here in 21 probably 20, 25, minutes; she's committed. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: As you see, that's a big 23 project, and one that we need to continue -- that we'll 24 continue with. The -- the other project we submitted in our 25 -- in our list to you, of course, is the agricultural -- Hill 10-14-11 CC/EIC 19 1 Country Youth Exhibit Center, that facility. First of all, 2 as you know, it has been a long-term project, you know, for 3 Kerr County. We have a long history of -- of our junior 4 livestock shows here, our 4-H programs, as you know, for a 5 long time. Our ag facility, as we've talked about in our 6 presentations, has got over 50 years of being here in Kerr 7 County. Actually, longer than that; we go back to the 8 football stadium in those days, so we have a long history. 9 As you know, the facility is a priority for us to update and 10 upgrade our facilities as we had talked about. Commissioner 11 Letz and Commissioner Oehler are our liaisons for the ag 12 facility here. 13 And, again, as the new guy coming on for this year, 14 one of the charges that I had is one of my representations 15 that I'm in charge of is the economic development efforts and 16 what projects that we have. And, of course, the ag facility 17 is in Precinct 2. And so as we looked at that, my charge 18 this past year was to go and look at the possibility of what 19 funding or some other efforts that we can look at as far as 20 trying to move this project forward, and that's what my 21 charge was from the Court. And so we came and made a 22 presentation to you and looked at the ag facility, and we 23 talked about the presentation of different phases in the 24 project. And just -- kind of just summarizing that, just 25 from that, we made our presentations; we looked at several 10-14-11 CC/EIC 20 1 phases of the project, just kind of a conclusion or a 2 summary. You know, at that time, you felt at that time that 3 we need to go back and look at some other things, and that 4 funding right now would not be available at this time. 5 So, what I'd -- what I'd like to report to you here 6 today is that for some degree, we're taking your advice on 7 some of the things. As you remember, the venue tax and the 8 Kerr County assistance district tax that our County Attorney 9 helped provide that information to us so that we could look 10 at doing that, we actually were going to move forward with 11 that, but due to the timeline that we had in trying to get 12 that information out -- you can also talk about the economy 13 where we are right now. We just didn't have enough time or 14 support to try to make that effort, and what our efforts were 15 in trying to promote that on why the benefit of this facility 16 needs to move forward. So, we stepped back -- stepped back 17 from those efforts in moving forward. And one of the things 18 that was in the E.I.C. request that came back of the list of 19 things that were commented back to us were to go out and look 20 at different sites or different things of how it could be set 21 up, how those type of things that we could look at. I'm glad 22 today to tell you that we're doing that to some degree. 23 I can tell you that a week and a half ago, 24 Commissioner Oehler led our efforts as far as leading Kerr 25 County. And one of my charges was to still encourage other 10-14-11 CC/EIC 21 1 organizations on my behalf to -- or the economic development 2 effort to still try to get their participation in this 3 process. I'm going to let Commissioner Oehler talk about it 4 here in just a second about what we looked at in San Angelo. 5 We went to San Angelo last week, week and a half ago. We 6 were looking at their facilities, and just my comments on it, 7 you know, when we looked at talking with you, our phase of 8 the project, looking at all the phases; we were talking 12 or 9 13 million dollars. And one of the deals was, well, you 10 know, we got to look at what's right for Kerrville and Kerr 11 County, and we got to look at what -- feasibly, what we can 12 afford and what we can do that works. And I will tell you 13 that we're doing that right now. 14 It's amazing, when we looked at San Angelo last 15 week, how good metal buildings, cinder blocks, and paint can 16 look. I don't know if you've been to the San Angelo 17 facility, but I came back last week more pumped up about the 18 need to move forward with this more than ever. And I know 19 that Commissioner Oehler knows a whole lot more about ag 20 facilities than I do, but it's something that we need to 21 really look at. So, last week, went ahead and looked at the 22 San Angelo facilities. I'm glad to say that we had -- our 23 junior livestock folks were there, and they're going to be 24 leaders with Kerr County in this project moving forward. 25 They will be at the lead with the county, and we're excited 10-14-11 CC/EIC 22 1 about having their representation that was with us last week 2 and as we move forward. And we're glad that some of the 3 other organizations attended last week. Our Chamber 4 president, Traci -- there you go -- and Denny Foster is right 5 there, with KerrFest. We have also included Mr. Watson with 6 K.E.D.C., the new group, and his participation. We've also 7 tried to -- and we're reaching out and have participation 8 also from C.V.B., Kerrville Board of Realtors group, and Todd 9 Parton has attended a meeting. 10 So -- so, what I will tell you -- and we looked at 11 the facilities last week. I know that Commissioner Oehler's 12 going to talk about maybe some of that, what we looked at 13 last week. But we'll let you know also that we are planning 14 in November to go to San Antonio, second week in November. 15 We're going to look at some other ag -- ag facilities down 16 there, particularly the Morris Activity Center in San 17 Antonio, and we're going to be looking at James Madison 18 facilities down there. So with that, what we're trying to do 19 is look and see what we can do financially that we can 20 afford. But, again, a project that -- for the long-term of 21 hopefully in the next couple of years, we will be able to 22 move forward and do what's right for this community, and help 23 our -- our 4-H programs and that. So, Commissioner Oehler, 24 I'm going to stop there and let you respond, whatever you 25 want to comment that you saw. 10-14-11 CC/EIC 23 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, it was really 2 enlightening to go up and see a facility that's working well. 3 The one in San Angelo, the difference is it's owned by the 4 City, and the County kind of helps run it; the stock show 5 runs part of it. They have a coliseum which the City 6 operates, independently of anybody. The facilities were all 7 paid for with 4B tax money; that's how it all happened. And 8 it's quite impressive to go see. Just the show barn part of 9 it was twice as large as what we're proposing to build, a 10 little over twice as large. And the price tag on that was 11 1.5 million. But it -- you know, it has asphalt floor 12 instead of concrete. It has -- the sidewalks are not real 13 high. They have one part of the facility that has an office. 14 It has, like, an equipment room and restrooms, and then where 15 they can have dinners and things, but it's -- it was too 16 small for what we need here. It only seats about 300 people. 17 MR. APPEL: How old is that facility? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was built in 2007. 19 MR. APPEL: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's not that long ago, 21 and the prices, I don't think, are going to be much 22 different. It was -- it was quite a nice building. And they 23 have, like, an indoor arena that we went and looked at that 24 has -- does not have concrete floor. It's dirt floor just 25 like our indoor arena; they pack it. Real neat facility. It 10-14-11 CC/EIC 24 1 has 950 theater-type seating on one side. They have, like, a 2 glassed-in area where it's heated and air-conditioned, where 3 it's a bar-type area. They can have food up there as well. 4 They have offices, concession stands, restrooms. They even 5 go as far as they had a big -- it's what I call a foyer. 6 Anyway, the whole length of the building, which is all 7 enclosed, and they even had cars in there from car dealers. 8 They were going to have -- I think the Taste of San Angelo 9 was there that night. And they had a whole area set up in 10 the very middle of this arena with some 4-foot, like, 11 portable panels that all separated for all the VIP's to sit 12 in, and then they would have all the other stuff around it. 13 Quite nice. Heated and air-conditioned the whole thing, and 14 it was 83,000 square feet. They said they use that thing 15 constantly. They have it -- the building itself, the rental 16 I thought was very reasonable; something like 1,250 a day, 17 but that did not include heating and air -- or electricity. 18 They have a charge -- they've even figured out how much it 19 costs per hour to run one or the other, so they add that on 20 to the rental fee. 21 COUNCILPERSON KEEBLE: $12.50? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, $1,250. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Not that reasonable. 24 MR. APPEL: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now -- 10-14-11 CC/EIC 25 1 COUNCILPERSON KEEBLE: I want to buy it. I want to 2 rent it forever. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: $25 a hour for electricity, 4 and -- no -- yeah, 12.50 -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And 12.50 for -- $12.50 an 6 hour for electric, no heating or air. It's a very tall 7 building. I think they said the peak ridge was 54 feet. But 8 they shed-roofed off on the one side of that main structure, 9 so that's where kind of the entryway is, and, you know, it's 10 almost glass -- it's all glass and tile, you know, 11 cinder-block; it's painted across the front. And then when 12 you walk in, all the structure underneath the seating area 13 and the offices and stuff above is all painted cinder-block. 14 Very attractive. Entry in and out, they got big doors on 15 either end; they can drive anything -- semis in there, 16 whatever. They have lots of horse events, and they do a lot 17 of the ropings and stuff out in the outdoor arena, but a lot 18 of functions they do inside, horse shows and cuttings and 19 whatever. It's very, very nice. The cost of that facility 20 he said was five million, and it was like 2000 -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Four. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Four. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, '03, '04. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's beautiful. I was really 25 surprised -- I think we all were -- at what they got for that 10-14-11 CC/EIC 26 1 money. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It was awesome. 3 MR. APPEL: Did y'all get any -- do they make money 4 with this? I mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. No, you'll never -- you 6 will never -- 7 MR. APPEL: Does it cost money? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You will not break even, but 9 the economic benefit is all the people that come to town for 10 the motels, hotels, retail businesses. 11 MR. APPEL: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They say there is no way to 13 gauge exactly what that is. 14 MR. APPEL: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that's part of what they 16 do for economic development, bring in lots of folks to town, 17 spend the night, buy -- buy food, go to the stores. You 18 know, and a lot of times they have three-day events. 19 Three-day events are your real money makers. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And another thing that was 21 really neat about the facility itself was the advertising 22 mechanism that's set up. You walk into the facility, and you 23 got your advertising signs all the way around the arena, and 24 they had 20. They have contracts, three-years contracts, and 25 they were paying for their names up there. In fact, the cost 10-14-11 CC/EIC 27 1 that they were charging was very nominal, I thought. 2 MS. CARLSON: It was low. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Do you remember how much it 4 was? 5 MR. FOSTER: $3,700 for a three-year contract. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Going to 5,000. 7 MR. FOSTER: Still too cheap. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Real cheap. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Then they had -- 10 MR. BOYLAND: Per year? 11 MR. FOSTER: For three years. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Going to five for three 13 years. But they have 20 of them. And then the big sponsor 14 for the facility had their name on the name of the arena out 15 in the front, and that -- I was thinking it was a 10-year -- 16 it was a 10-year agreement. I think it was -- 10,000 a year? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something like that. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Something like that. 19 MS. CARLSON: No, 5,000 a year. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: On the sign out front? 21 MS. CARLSON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But they all felt like the 23 advertisement that they potentially are leaving off the 24 table, they were leaving -- it's still off the table. But, I 25 mean, that's another source of revenue that can be generated 10-14-11 CC/EIC 28 1 for the facility. So, I think Commissioner Oehler said on 2 the opposite end of each side, you have the 16-by-16 doors, 3 and then on the other side of the wall, they're the 12-by-12 4 doors, you know, different places all the way down, different 5 segments. So, quite impressive. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment on that. I 7 mean, I think -- I know my recollection was -- and, Guy, 8 correct me if I'm wrong. When y'all evaluated this last 9 time, it was evaluated kind of on the jobs it created, things 10 of that nature. Well, it's never going to create jobs. 11 That's not what it does. The economic impact of these is 12 graded the wrong way. These are -- you know, if you talk to 13 the Convention and Visitors Bureau, Sudie and them, the ag -- 14 or the exhibit show, annual stock show, that one event is 15 just huge to the economy of this community. And you add all 16 the other smaller events out there continually, whether 17 they're, you know, family -- a family organization or 18 weddings and things of that nature, on to gun shows and all 19 the roping events, all that, all of those are generating 20 money to the -- you know, to -- basically, sales tax money to 21 this community, and that's how you have to evaluate any of 22 these -- any kind of facility like this. The plan that we're 23 working off of is the same plan the Court approved five years 24 ago. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 2008. 10-14-11 CC/EIC 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2008, that we came up with. 2 And we came up with a footprint and a phase, and we're kind 3 of like in that one; we're kind of nearing the middle of 4 that. I mean, the first part of that was to redo a -- or 5 take down a 4-H center horse barn that was really unused. 6 We've totally renovated that and have a great 4-H facility 7 out there now. Then we removed the old outdoor arena, built 8 a new outdoor arena. We've done that. And the next step of 9 the phase is the -- the barn portion, and then once that's 10 built, the hog barn part will be torn down. And that's where 11 we are right now. And then the final phase would be some 12 sort of a, you know, larger facility; I don't know what you'd 13 call that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: After going last week and 15 seeing -- to see the size of what they built, I think we're 16 going to have to rethink the amount of square footage and the 17 way it's laid out a little bit, because we may wind up 18 later -- I think we've been talking a little bit about maybe 19 the last phase of the project, putting the building out and 20 maybe closing the Riverside Drive where you can take 21 advantage of the lake. But the -- what I'm seeing and what I 22 saw, and I think what we agreed, kind of, sort of, the other 23 day by going to San Angelo is that building needs to be 24 bigger than what we have drawn, square feet. Because our 25 need for -- 10-14-11 CC/EIC 30 1 MR. APPEL: Show barn building? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Show barn building. It needs 3 to be a larger square footage, and maybe rethink about maybe 4 the show -- the livestock area. Pens and all that could be 5 one type deal, kind of like -- maybe the asphalt floor 6 instead of concrete. And then the area that, like, we hold 7 dinners and things now needs to be quite a bit larger than 8 what they had up there, and larger than what we have now, and 9 that area needs to be heated and air-conditioned. But in 10 order to do that, we're going to have to make the building 11 wider, and we really can't -- I don't think we can go any 12 farther back. It's just going to have to be wider in the 13 front. But that's where I think we're going to start doing 14 some drawing, sit down with the architect and kind of lay out 15 what we think, get him to put -- put it to scale. But I did 16 ask Sudie the other day -- I sent her an e-mail and asked how 17 large and what the -- how the stock show compared to other 18 events, and kind of rate them in size. 19 MR. APPEL: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's the fifth largest event 21 that comes to Kerrville on an annual basis. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: From an economic development 23 standpoint? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From a numbers -- the number 25 of people that come to town for an event. That's the fifth 10-14-11 CC/EIC 31 1 largest event of the year. 2 MS. CARLSON: 85 percent of those are not Kerr 3 County. 85 percent of the people attending those events are 4 outside of Kerr County. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the Arts and Crafts? Is 7 that -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Arts and Crafts, I believe, 9 is number one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that -- and that's really 11 part of the same facility, and it would be a -- I mean, they 12 -- you know, every time we talk, we get closer to doing 13 something, they're kind of looking over our shoulders, seeing 14 if it will help what they're doing, and it will. Anything we 15 do out there will be an asset to that as well. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And this show barn building, 17 I mean, all the pens and stuff are portable. All that stuff 18 can be taken out, and that is a big benefit for the Arts and 19 Crafts Fair, where they could move a lot of that stuff inside 20 and not have to have so many tents. It would be better. The 21 weather and everything, it would make it come off a lot 22 smoother, and just be more comfortable for everybody if it 23 was indoors. 24 MR. APPEL: I know this project is one that we've 25 looked at formally. Speaking for myself, I see a lot of 10-14-11 CC/EIC 32 1 benefit to the community, both in terms of just pure quality 2 of life, serving the kids in the community of -- of Kerrville 3 and Kerr County. Obviously, this is a facility that is in 4 need of renovation. I think there are significant economic 5 development opportunities with it. I think it's going to be 6 a lot about getting -- getting a plan that everybody's on 7 board with, and that the livestock folks and everybody in the 8 community is -- is on board with, and figuring out a plan 9 that makes the most economic sense. Part of what we look at 10 has to do with how are we considering -- you know, is this -- 11 is this considered economic development? Is it quality of 12 life? Exactly how we categorize it. And I think that there 13 certainly, from my point of view, are opportunities to -- to 14 certainly continue looking at this and -- and discussing it. 15 And I'd like to see E.I.C. support this project. So, I don't 16 know if anybody else wants to share anything. I think I'm 17 not the only one that feels that way, but I won't speak for 18 anybody else. 19 MR. HYDE: No, I just have a question. Twelve or 20 13 million dollars is where y'all were in the beginning of 21 this thing. Do y'all have an estimate now where you think 22 you might be with a change in building design? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say that, you know, 24 we need to talk about one phase at a time. We need to 25 prioritize the phases, the priority. The way we see it, I 10-14-11 CC/EIC 33 1 believe, as a group is to renovate the old indoor arena, then 2 build a show barn, which can also be used for a lot of 3 different things, multipurpose-type facility. I'm thinking 4 somewhere under $3 million, just a wild guess, just from what 5 we saw up there. Nowhere near what we were talking about 6 starting out. 7 MR. HYDE: That wouldn't be comparable to a 12 or 8 13 million -- I'm just trying to say that, you know, with the 9 different stuff, 7 to 8 kind of -- 10 MS. CARLSON: Seven. 11 MR. HYDE: Let's say seven to eight million dollars 12 if you did all of it. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll put it to you this way; 14 looking at what they had up there, looking at the metal 15 buildings -- 16 MR. HYDE: They make it look pretty good. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That was a shock to me. 18 MS. CARLSON: Looks very nice. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You don't need to come in and 20 see all of the -- I mean, my thing is -- and that's why I 21 think it was a benefit for Kerrville. To me, it was to go 22 and look and see what you could get for the price. And I 23 think by setting it up, what we're talking about, I think 24 you'll see a big drop from 12 down to, you know, 6 or 7. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Six or seven? 10-14-11 CC/EIC 34 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And it's -- and it's -- it's 2 doable. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And one thing that is going 4 to happen, the stock show group is going to come in and 5 they're going to promote this thing. And they -- they have 6 good contacts of people that will give to them. They won't 7 give the county a dime, but they'll give to the stock show. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just the way it is. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also as part of that is 11 that -- is a further commitment that currently exists, but it 12 would even memorialize even more of a long-term commitment of 13 that being a stock show facility, which has been a concern -- 14 some of their concern as well. You know, and this will -- 15 you know, we've always been that way. The primary focus of 16 that from our standpoint -- and the show barn part and 17 everything we're talking about right now, the arena is stock 18 show. The other building would have other uses for it, and 19 these buildings have more uses, but it's still -- that is our 20 commitment to the community, and I think our commitment to 21 the stock show, that this is kind of a stock show facility. 22 MR. FOSTER: I don't know if you can take comments 23 from the public. If not, just tell me to shut up. But just 24 the Ag Barn is being used around 30 weeks out of the year. I 25 think you can fill it up the other 20. But the other thing 10-14-11 CC/EIC 35 1 is, I think you can upgrade the type of events that you get 2 there with a new facility, so it's going to bring in more tax 3 dollars. And the -- and the one negative part of this is if 4 we don't do something, that is in such bad shape that we will 5 lose the fifth largest event in the county. So -- and I 6 think San Angelo is a perfect example for us to copy and 7 plagiarize. I mean, what they have done works so well here, 8 and really, on almost the same scale. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. It was very, very 10 nice, and it's new enough, and they -- and they -- it fits 11 their needs. It's just that we have to modify some of the 12 space to fit our needs. But -- 13 MS. CARLSON: They said it was the most used 14 facility there, that one is. It's the most used facility. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Indoor arena thing is the 16 most used, more so than the stock pens. We're going to have 17 to figure out a way to make -- mesh more uses into that 18 building for the time being. 19 MR. FOSTER: Well, it's amazing. They have a 20 roping; they roll back the dirt and they hold the Taste of -- 21 Taste of San Angelo in there the -- you know, the next week. 22 I mean, it was nice. They had, you know, round tables with 23 tablecloths on them, and, I mean, it was -- it was as nice as 24 any place we have here with a concrete floor, and it was just 25 packed dirt. So, you can do anything. 10-14-11 CC/EIC 36 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's -- 2 MR. APPEL: Guy, I know that Kenneth Early has 3 agreed to kind of be a part of the -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Participate. 5 MR. APPEL: For this process. I don't know if he 6 went or not, but is there anything else that we can do to 7 kind of be a part of the -- of the planning process? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think as far as -- as far 9 as my point, and as far as the economic development, being 10 economic -- economic development liaison for the county, part 11 of it is I want to continue to -- to include and have those 12 organizations participate. I'm going to be going with 13 Commissioner Oehler and Commissioner Letz as far as the, you 14 know, lead on this. They are the representatives for the 15 county. We'll be working with the junior livestock folks, 16 but I hope that Kenneth will come as we go in -- into San 17 Antonio next month; love to have you go. I will tell you 18 that the main reason that I think it's important to meet 19 today is just that we want you to keep this project on your 20 radar screen. We've talked about our priority of projects 21 for the county, but this is a -- a project that we -- we're 22 all, you know, very supportive of. It benefits all of our 23 youth in our area. It has a significant value to the 24 economic benefit on behalf of Kerrville and Kerr County. 25 When we say that, we're 49,625 voters. And this is something 10-14-11 CC/EIC 37 1 that we need to have on our scope, and as we go through this 2 process, I think we're doing it the right way, and I think 3 we're getting the input and planning to move forward at the 4 appropriate time. But keep it on your screen. We appreciate 5 you doing that as we move forward. 6 MR. APPEL: Guy, I just want to say that I 7 appreciate your leadership on this. And, you know, you've 8 pushed through and -- and been patient with it, and continued 9 to try to find a way to make it work in challenging economic 10 times. And any time you're dealing with a project of this 11 scope, not everybody's going to always agree with you, but 12 that's what -- that's what leadership is about. And I really 13 appreciate -- 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think we're all in this -- 15 MR. APPEL: -- everybody participating. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We're all in it together. 17 MR. APPEL: So, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Were those the only two that we 19 had on our priority list? 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Those were the top -- top 21 two. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the two major ones. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The other one I just 24 want to bring up -- and I maybe figured it was on the City's 25 list; I can't remember what the City had on their list -- was 10-14-11 CC/EIC 38 1 the airport. The airport is a facility that we -- that's 2 kind of -- you know, I don't -- I just want to make sure it 3 doesn't get forgotten. You know, that's probably more 4 doable. I mean, we're not talking about huge, huge numbers 5 there. I mean, of course, it's all relative. To me they're 6 huge, but maybe not compared to the millions and millions 7 we're talking about with these other projects. But there 8 will be some -- you know, the goal, I think, for the City and 9 the County is to get the airport to be self-sufficient. It's 10 not that far from it. Last year -- we got the final numbers 11 last year. It ran -- I looked at it twice -- you know, 12 $340,000 deficit, or $290,000 deficit anyway. I think 290 is 13 a lot of money, but not -- it's certainly something doable to 14 overcome that with some fairly -- you know, not a whole lot 15 of economic development out there. 16 T-hangars are -- surface around out there a lot. 17 Ours, the ones that we built with the City, gosh, about 10 18 years ago now, are, say, 95 percent full. Probably actually 19 100 percent, but you don't want to say that, 'cause there's 20 always a move in, move out. There's a waiting list that 21 we've had almost since we built those. There's -- you know, 22 those are certainly on the horizon. I know the Airport 23 Board's been looking at that. The master plan that they're 24 working on, I think the final draft's going to be presented 25 next Monday. Mooney is the -- that's the big albatross that 10-14-11 CC/EIC 39 1 no one wants to talk about. Lots of buildings, lots of 2 problems with those buildings, and evidently -- well, 3 obviously, lots of problems with the company, how -- where 4 it's going to go in the future. At some point, a lot of that 5 -- something's going to have to be done with those 6 facilities. 7 And the other side of it is, there's other 8 infrastructure improvements out there. Most of them, you 9 know, tend to get funded through TexDOT, but there is a 10 grant -- maybe from 10 to 20 percent grant match on those; it 11 depends on the category. I just wanted to keep those -- 12 those are -- you know, it's another very difficult -- I got 13 asked by the Daily Times the other day, "What's the economic 14 impact of the airport?" I don't know how you even quantify 15 that. I mean, my answer to them was, first of all, all those 16 facilities -- I mean, there's property tax levied on all the 17 private things, even the leases, the airplanes, certainly the 18 corporate planes, but they're not separated out as to we get 19 "X" dollars. I'm pretty confident that if you just 20 incorporated the property tax benefit that comes from the 21 airport, it probably breaks even right now. I doubt it even 22 has a true deficit. But it's -- you know, trying to go 23 through there and find all that is really, really difficult, 24 because all those are businesses out there, so they're all 25 paying property tax. 10-14-11 CC/EIC 40 1 MR. APPEL: Does the fuel taxes go into that? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, they go into that. Yeah, 3 that goes into that. The other side of it is the benefit of 4 having the airport attracts the clientele that Kerr County is 5 known for, especially west Kerr County, the large ranches, 6 the people that are, you know, very affluent. I mean, they 7 fly -- they use -- Kerr County's an attractive destination 8 because they can fly their jets into Kerr County. I know 9 there's another property that's being developed right now 10 south of Center Point. The people live in Manhattan; they 11 fly here in their Citation about every six weeks, and they're 12 building a huge facility out there right now. Those things 13 wouldn't be happening without this airport. And so I -- I 14 mean, how do you quantify that? I don't know, but I know 15 that there are a whole lot of contractors that would be out 16 of business if that airport wasn't there. You know, 'cause 17 these people tend to go in there. 18 Probably the high profile -- I was told to quit 19 using his name, but everyone knows he's here, is Lee Bass. 20 He flies in and has a helicopter fly him out to his ranch. 21 No one sees Lee Bass in town, hardly. But I can guarantee 22 you, every contractor in this community, they jump high when 23 he -- when someone from -- his ranch manager gives him a 24 call, says, "Hey, we have some work." And there's lot of 25 people like that. And I think the airport is huge to this 10-14-11 CC/EIC 41 1 area. I think TexDOT understands that. They have put about 2 15 million into it in the last five years. This airport has 3 received -- well, one year it received 80 percent of the 4 total funding allocated for the year, statewide, for general 5 aviation airports. You know, and TexDOT's there looking at 6 the need, the use of airports when they make those decisions. 7 So, I think that we need to keep that high in our priority. 8 I know the City does. I just want to bring it up; I want to 9 make sure that didn't, you know, -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- be forgotten. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And I'll just say this. I 13 think Commissioner Letz hit it right on the head, talking 14 about the airport. I'm glad you brought that up, because 15 next thing is there will be some opportunity this year with 16 airport structure, and as we move forward with everything, on 17 some opportunities to -- to really enhance -- attract some of 18 those potential company planes here. And, again, we -- we 19 retain, I think, 9 cents out of every gallon that's sold here 20 of fuel, and attracting some of those planes here. And so I 21 think as we move forward, you know, exploring those economic 22 development opportunities can be significant for us. So, 23 glad you brought that up. 24 MR. BOYLAND: Is there anything specific on the 25 horizon you have -- 10-14-11 CC/EIC 42 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm not going to say right 2 now. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's like a lot of economic 4 things; there's some things in the works that we really 5 can't -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Potential. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're working on them, you 8 know. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And others. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And others. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, there's -- yeah, there's 13 some huge things that we're working on. And if, you know, we 14 can connect the dots, they can be really beneficial to the 15 community. 16 MR. BOYLAND: Going back to the east side of the 17 county on the infrastructure, if -- if we each get down the 18 road and we see that 25 and 30 million is just, you know, too 19 much to try to accomplish, would you try to scale it back, or 20 would you place more emphasis on the water treatment or the 21 waste and sewage? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It -- that's a hard one. I 23 think if you scale it back, you probably scale back both. 24 And I think to scale it back would probably be to scale it 25 back to the Center Point area only, and then -- and you'd 10-14-11 CC/EIC 43 1 have to relook at it. That would be the logical way to do 2 it, though, and it really becomes the -- that becomes much 3 more of an immediate concern, and you lose a lot of the 4 long-term economic potential with that, but you do address a 5 lot of the water needs. 'Cause that's where the -- most of 6 the current needs are, certainly, in the Center Point area, 7 both from the septic and the water standpoint. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy, looks like we made your 9 deadline pretty good. Anything else? We appreciate you 10 being here. 11 MR. APPEL: Absolutely. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be adjourned. 13 (Joint meeting adjourned at 8:35 a.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-14-11 CC/EIC 44 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of October, 8 2011. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-14-11 CC/EIC