1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, November 14, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 14, 2011 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 8 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Kerrville Youth Baseball Softball 5 Assoc. to renew lease for Little League fields 11 6 1.2 Public Hearing concerning revision of plat for Lots 13 and 14B of Japonica Hills, Precinct 4 21 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 accept final revision for Lots 13 and 14B of Japonica Hills, Precinct 4 21 9 1.4 Public Hearing concerning revision of plat for 10 Lots 50 and 51 of Lake Ingram Estates Section Two, Precinct 4 29 11 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 12 final approval of revision of plat for Lots 50 and 51 of Lake Ingram Estates Section Two, Pct. 4 30 13 1.7 Consider/discus, take appropriate action to 14 amend OSSF Authorized Agents Intergovernmental (Interlocal) Agreement with cities of Kerrville 15 and Ingram in accordance with TCEQ requirements 31 16 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning filing a complaint under the Lemon 17 Law for RBU 149, a 2009 Chevrolet dump truck 35 18 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on tax abatement for Fox Tank Company 37 19 1.11 Presentation regarding Texas AgriLife Extension 20 Kerr County Interpretation 49 21 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve assistance agreement; authorize County 22 to enter into agreement with all approved and future homeowners as part of County's 710065 23 OSSF grant 59 24 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve group one homeowners for OSSF assistance 25 as part of County's 710065 OSSF grant 65 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 14, 2011 2 PAGE 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve hiring of site evaluation and design for OSSF Grant 710065 to Hill County Septic Service 65 4 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 authorize County Judge to sign “Small Purchase Procurement Record” approving site evaluator for 6 OSSF Grant 710065 67 7 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Helping Hands of Center Point to 8 have Kerr County Environmental Health Dept. pay tipping fees of up to $500 for various clean-up 9 projects in Center Point and surrounding areas 68 10 1.26 Consider/discuss Kerr County Policy for non-county maintained impassable roads 78 11 1.36 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 12 order expressing official intent to reimburse with tax-exempt obligation proceeds for costs 13 associated with constructing/acquiring various improvements and/or capital assets within county 92 14 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 approve the “Application Filing and Authorized Representative Resolution” concerning Clean Water 16 State Revolving Fund (CWSRF) 95 17 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve the “Certificate Regarding Lobbying” 18 concerning the Clean Water State Revolving Fund 95 19 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve the “Application Affidavit” concerning 20 the Clean Water State Revolving Fund 95 21 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve the “Application Resolution–Certificate 22 of Secretary” concerning the Clean Water State Revolving Fund 95 23 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 approve the “Texas Water Development Board – Application/Entity Affirmative Steps Certification 25 and Goals” concerning the Clean Water State Revolving Fund 95 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 14, 2011 2 PAGE 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 submitting necessary documents for Clean Water State Revolving Fund Loan application 95 4 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 5 EDAP wastewater and EDAP water projects 95 6 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on presentation regarding the burn ban on the Hurt 7 Ranch in West Kerr County 122 8 1.31 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request by HCDRC to renew contract with Kerr 9 County to provide mediation services in Kerr County, and for funding 135 10 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve appointment of an additional deputy constable for Precinct 1, Kerr County 137 12 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 review 2011-2012 Kerr County budget 139 14 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on correspondence received from Full Circle Services, 15 Inc., offering their services to recover uncashed checks 147 16 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 approve Advance Funding Agreement with TexDOT on Cade Loop Bridge; authorize County Judge to 18 sign same 148, 193 19 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Kerr County Retiree Health Care Plan 20 Actuarial Valuation Report as of January 1, 2011 149 21 1.29 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2012 Resolution for Indigent Defense 22 Grant program; authorize County Judge to sign same 153 23 1.30 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 accept audit report for audit of Human Resources Department 154 25 5 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 14, 2011 2 PAGE 1.32 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 cast Kerr County’s votes for Kerr CAD Board of Directors 2012 to 2013 terms 154 4 1.33 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 select date for annual county Christmas party 157 6 1.34 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on implementation of the Burn Ban 160 7 1.35 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve contracts with Center Point VFD, Tierra Linda VFD, Elm Pass VFD, and Comfort VFD; allow 9 County Judge to sign same 161 10 1.37 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Auditor to draft a purchasing order 11 policy outlining requirements that the external auditors have requested; consider authorizing the 12 Auditor to draft a purchasing policy for review and approval 162 13 1.38 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 14 regarding Kerr County Resolution to TCEQ related to Air Quality Permit 98676 with Wheatcraft, Inc. 175 15 1.39 Consider/discuss, and take appropriate action to 16 approve the revised Correctional Healthcare Companies medical services contract --- 17 1.40 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 select an architect for additions to Kerr County Adult Detention Center based on prior RFQ's 181 19 1.41 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 schedule workshop and appoint committee for new adult detention facility needs 182 21 1.42 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 22 approve setting the cost for a copy of the FY 2011/12 budget 191 23 1.43 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 adopt Government/Municipal/Public Funds Banking Resolution to permit County Attorney to open 25 bank account for the deposit and disbursement of hot check restitution paid by credit card 192 6 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 14, 2011 2 PAGE 4.1 Pay Bills 198 3 4.2 Budget Amendments 203 4.3 Late Bills --- 4 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 204 5 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 204 6 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 206 7 1.44 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding complaint of Cecil Atkission and 8 City of Kerrville Against LCRA Transmission Services Corporation (Executive Session) --- 9 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 10 in Executive Session 215 11 --- Adjourned 216 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 1 On Monday, November 14, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, November 14th, at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. If you would please stand and join me in a moment 12 of prayer followed by the pledge of allegiance to the flag of 13 our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 17 that wishes to be heard on a matter which is not a listed 18 agenda item -- seems to be rather difficult, though, it 19 wouldn't be an agenda item, as many as we've got. But if 20 it's not a listed agenda item, this is your opportunity to 21 come forward and tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to 22 be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that you fill -- 23 please fill out a participation form. There should be some 24 located at the rear of the room. That serves as an alert to 25 me, when we get to that item, to not overlook those that have 11-14-11 8 1 asked to be heard. If you haven't filed a participation form 2 and wish to be heard on an agenda item, when we get to that 3 item, please get my attention in some manner; I will give you 4 the opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's 5 member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard on a 6 matter which is not a listed agenda item, this is your 7 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 8 Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner 9 Baldwin, what do you have for us this morning? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I don't have anything, 11 other than I want to remind you guys we have a great luncheon 12 today at the -- at Schreiner University, so let's be mindful 13 of that as we move through our agenda. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge Tinley, just a couple 16 of things. We've got a lot on our agenda today. I just 17 wanted to again thank our Center Point Volunteer Fire 18 Department for their fish fry efforts that were in October. 19 Had a good crowd out there, and glad for everything that our 20 volunteer fire department does out at Center Point. I wanted 21 to also let you know that this Thursday, Commissioner Oehler 22 and myself and the other organization members from our 23 community will be attending the San Antonio -- looking at ag 24 facilities, at the Morris Activity Center and James Madison, 25 and we'll be going ahead and looking at those facilities as 11-14-11 9 1 far as our ag facilities are concerned. Remember, we looked 2 at San Angelo last month, and we're continuing to look at 3 potential ag facilities that might be used in our community. 4 Commissioner Oehler, look forward to going with you on 5 Thursday on that. Again, two other things. Our Tivy Antlers 6 were in the playoffs this weekend. Commissioner Baldwin, 7 always good to see that, and look forward to a good run with 8 that. And, again, a happy Thanksgiving to all of our -- our 9 folks. Hope everybody has a happy Thanksgiving during the 10 holiday season. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one thing, just to remind 13 everybody, that the weekend after Thanksgiving is Christmas 14 in Comfort. Nighttime parade, good time, lots of fun. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: When is that? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the Saturday night after 17 Thanksgiving. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whole weekend, there's lots of 20 events going on. I encourage everyone to come on down and 21 have a good time. That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have a float in that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A float? Yes, I do. Well, I'm 25 on a float; I'm not going to drive. I'm not sure. I'm 11-14-11 10 1 involved with a float, put that it way. I had very little to 2 say about it. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Hope you have some 4 rain; you'll be able to float down the street. Only thing 5 that I have really is the fact that we lost another one of 6 our -- one of our Kerr County fine folks, Shirley Klug, who 7 served many years on the Ingram City Council, and lord knows 8 how many free cookings and things they've been involved in 9 with various organizations. Very involved in the Elks Lodge. 10 She passed away last week, and her memorial service is today 11 at 5:00 at the Elks Lodge. I want to offer that up, and keep 12 that family in your prayers. Very, very special lady. Very 13 selfless in everything that she did. That's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. A couple of announcements. 15 Patrice Doerries, who I'm sure members of the Court will 16 remember, one of our two Kerr County placements on the Senior 17 Advisory Committee down at AACOG, I've been advised that -- 18 that Patrice has been named the chair of that committee. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So she's -- she's been doing an 21 excellent job for Kerr County, and she's now at the top spot 22 on that committee. And I want to congratulate her on all of 23 her hard work and efforts that she's put in. She's been a 24 great rep for Kerr County, and we appreciate all she's done. 25 Another item is, I was advised by Ms. Lavender late last week 11-14-11 11 1 that she has accepted a grant through the Byrne -- it's a 2 federal -- a federal-type situation. It's for the updating 3 and upgrading of our fingerprint machine that we have, 4 $44,000. That's money that -- that the good taxpayers don't 5 have to spend. So -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's actually on AFIS, where 7 it will give us our own database to search fingerprints, 8 instead of having to wait six months to get them back from 9 Austin. We can actually take them, enter them into a 10 database and search them right there, so it will be a lot 11 better for the county. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But the bottom line is, that's money 13 that Kerr County taxpayers didn't have to spend -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Exactly right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for that additional feature. And 16 that's -- we're happy to have those funds. Happy to see all 17 of you here. We've got a rather lengthy agenda, so let's get 18 on with it. The first item on the agenda is a 9 o'clock 19 agenda item; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 20 action on a request from Kerrville Youth Baseball/Softball 21 Association to renew lease for Little League fields. 22 Mr. Robertson and Mr. Abel, I believe, are here. 23 MR. ROBERTSON: Morning. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before he launches into it, 25 you was talking about Tivy football. Doug and I went and saw 11-14-11 12 1 one Friday night that was with Wimberley, and the Ducks -- I 2 don't know where the Ducks are from. 3 MR. ROBERTSON: Taylor. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Taylor. The Taylor Ducks. 5 And it was a double overtime. And, of course, we're ranked 6 number two in the state, and the Ducks, can't even find them 7 in there, but it was -- you never know when these -- 8 especially at that 3-A level, when one of them's going to -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why did y'all happen to go to 10 this game? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because it was a game; 12 that's what we do. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was anyone playing that we may 14 know? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a little friend in 16 it, little tiny guy that you can't see in the game. But, 17 anyway, we had a good time, huh? 18 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes. The Ducks were 3 and 7 going 19 into this playoff game, so it was quite shocking that we 20 weren't gone by halftime. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What did you have for us this 22 morning? 23 MR. ROBERTSON: We're just here to talk to y'all 24 and ask you if we can get together in the near future and 25 renew our lease with the county for Kerrville Youth Baseball 11-14-11 13 1 and softball. The fields out there are coming up for 2 renewal. And so we're just here to ask you for your time in 3 the near future. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the expiration date of 5 current lease? 6 MR. ROBERTSON: It is February 20 -- 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: 27. 8 MR. ROBERTSON: 27th, 28th. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Next year? 10 MR. ROBERTSON: February of 2012, yes, sir. But 11 our season will start, provided we have somewhere to play, in 12 March. So, we would look forward to getting with you guys 13 and seeing if -- if we can renew that. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's the end of a 25-year 15 lease; is that correct? 16 MR. ROBERTSON: That's correct, yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend that we just form 18 a committee; let the County Attorney work on it, a member of 19 the Court, and whoever Little League Association wants to -- 20 whoever y'all appoint. Three people. 21 MR. ROBERTSON: We'll send Dan Abel. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Send Dan. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't have a recommendation of 24 the Court representation there, do you, Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever the Court wants. 11-14-11 14 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been up to your eyeballs in 3 it for years. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like you'd be the 5 obvious candidate. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. That's fine. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I do have some comments at 8 the same time to add right now about the facilities. You 9 know, with the lease expiring right now, and coming up -- 10 first of all, as Commissioner Letz said, I want to first of 11 all thank the parents, the volunteers. Doug, I know all of 12 -- many in this room here serve as chairmen of other sports 13 organizations. Over the years, the amount of time, the sweat 14 equity that you folks have put into this facility over the 15 years for 25 years. I thank the county for using the 16 facilities that we have done over the years. I know you guys 17 have all been very involved in doing that, but I think at the 18 time as we're talking about doing a renewal, new lease, I 19 think it's the same time that we need to start thinking about 20 the long-term complex, or an athletic complex for this 21 community. You know, first of all, the -- the need for the 22 city of Kerrville -- and, again, I'm not trying to come down 23 on my brethren across the -- the road over here, but the need 24 for the community of Kerrville to start having an athletic 25 complex now needs to be discussed. 11-14-11 15 1 In 2008, we passed an economic development 2 strategic plan that calls for the development of an athletic 3 complex to use for multi-use facilities for recreational 4 sports that include baseball facilities, soccer field 5 facilities, and to help with local lodging and attraction of 6 tourism into our community. The need to right now start 7 looking at having an athletic complex built community-wide is 8 -- is significant. You're going to have a place to play. I 9 mean, we're not running you out of anything at all, but I 10 think the community of Kerrville needs to really start 11 looking at that. As we talked about it, the strategic plan 12 calls for the development of an athletic complex. I remember 13 my days playing back at Lytle Park, Buster. Back in those 14 days, I played with the Schreiner Bank Giants, and had fond 15 memories of playing the Elks and VFW and Gibson's Discount 16 Center. But, you know, we have a -- a Little League team 17 that won nationals this year. 18 And I know over the years, our -- our Antlers and 19 different hill country people have had use of these facility 20 in helping do that, but we need to start looking at a 21 facility across -- somewhere in our community. We have a 22 couple of locations that we could go to. The City of 23 Kerrville needs to look at leveraging their money on their 24 river trail program. Instead of spending $6 million on a 25 river trail program, they need to start leveraging their 11-14-11 16 1 money, and the athletic complex is one of those things that's 2 supported by the strategic plan to do so, so that you have 3 facilities to attract tournaments and visitors to our 4 community to play, so that this can go on for the next 25 or 5 30 years. That is essential that we do that. It's also time 6 to get the soccer fields literally out of the dumps and put 7 them in an athletic complex where they can be used so that we 8 can use it to attract people to this community. 9 I would say that as we are now starting to have 10 businesses looking at coming to our community, that are 11 starting to come here, and when you see businesses that are 12 coming here, if you have an athletic complex that can be used 13 for baseball or softball or soccer, that will mean a whole 14 lot more than just looking at 6 miles of river trails to 15 attract a business here, attract those people here. So, as 16 we look at this, I would like to -- to appoint -- we 17 support -- I'll support you in anything that we have for a 18 facility. I would encourage our -- our City of Kerrville to 19 leverage their funding. Leverage your funding. Do a segment 20 of the river trails, help out our baseball complex, build a 21 facility that helps address the problem for the long term. 22 Help the ag facilities and leverage those fundings. 23 I will say this in closing. The trip that went to 24 Washington, D.C. this year, those that went on that trip, I 25 will tell you that everybody that went on that trip spoke 11-14-11 17 1 highly of the development of an athletic complex for this 2 community, and it's time that we move forward and do the 3 right thing. That was passed in our strategic plan to help 4 our Little League facilities. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whose strategic plan is 6 that? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The strategic plan was passed 8 in 2008. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By? 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner Baldwin, it was 11 adopted by the County of Kerr, City of Kerrville, Economic 12 Improvement Corporation. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would you do -- what 14 would you do with that property if we moved -- moved all the 15 baseball fields out? 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, first of all, they have 17 to have a place to play. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. What would 19 you do if they all moved out? 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That would be something for 21 the Commissioners Court -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would you do? You. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, if you find a complex 24 that they can play, then, obviously, the development of the 25 property across from the ag facility has a lot of potential. 11-14-11 18 1 That could be used for maybe helping that area to be promoted 2 to move forward as well down the road. So, those are -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like a convention center 4 kind of thing? 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I didn't say convention 6 center. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know; I did. But I'm 8 asking -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- if that's what you're 11 talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, I think right now -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want to move Little 14 League out so you can develop a convention center? 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, I wouldn't say that. I 16 don't want -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I don't want to develop a 19 Little League convention center there, but what we do want is 20 we want you to have a facility that will play long-term for 21 you. And I -- again, I hope the City will look at leveraging 22 those fundings. The D.C. trip this year, everybody that went 23 on that trip talked about an athletic complex for you. And 24 I'll support you any way that we have down the road, but I 25 think you do a wonderful job, and thank you. 11-14-11 19 1 MR. ABEL: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's my comments. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The discussion, I think, is centered 4 on designation of a committee. The youth baseball, softball, 5 whatever, appointing a rep or two, a member of this Court; a 6 suggestion's been made for Mr. Letz. Involve the County 7 Attorney. Any member of the Court think anybody else needs 8 to be added to that at this point? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I don't know that we 10 need to add anybody additional, but I think there will be 11 some people, like the Maintenance Department will be 12 involved. Visited with Adult Probation; possibly community 13 service. I mean, kind of look at some of the others, but I 14 think the core group is pretty small. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, guys. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- come back -- I mean, this 18 is not going to be one of those committees like I'm seeing on 19 TV to cut a bunch of money out -- that's not going to happen. 20 Y'all are going to come back with a recommendation? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say December. I'd say 22 early December. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Early December, which is two 24 weeks. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11-14-11 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three weeks. Well, at our 2 first meeting in December -- pretty quick -- at least with an 3 outline of the direction, and then turn it loose to the 4 County Attorney to write an agreement. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You signed up for another 6 year as chairman, right? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We need a motion. 8 MR. ROBERTSON: I don't know that I signed up. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, so moved. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion to form a committee 11 to that effect and to report back to the Court in December. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Do 14 we have any discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 20 gentlemen. 21 MR. ROBERTSON: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 23 MR. ROBERTSON: Appreciate your time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Moving this thing forward. At this 25 time, I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I 11-14-11 21 1 will convene a public hearing concerning the revision of plat 2 for Lots 13 and 14B of Japonica Hills, as set forth in Volume 3 5, Page 199, and Volume 6, Page 349, Plat Records, and 4 located in Precinct 4. 5 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:15 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 6 court, as follows:) 7 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 9 audience that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision 10 of plat for Lots 13 and 14B of Japonica Hills, as set forth 11 in Volume 5, Page 199, and Volume 6, Page 349, Plat Records? 12 Seeing no one coming forward or seeking recognition to be 13 heard, I will close the public hearing concerning the 14 revision of plat for Lots 13 and 14B, Japonica Hills, as set 15 forth in Volume 5, Page 199, and Volume 6, Page 349, Plat 16 Records, and located in Precinct 4. 17 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:15 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 18 reopened.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will call Item 3; to consider, 21 discuss, and take appropriate action to accept the final 22 revision for Lots 13 and 14B of Japonica Hills, as set forth 23 in Volume 5, Page 199, and Volume 6, Page 349, Plat Records, 24 and located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. John and Stephen Pipkin own 11-14-11 22 1 Lots 13 and 14B in Japonica, and they wish to subdivide that, 2 a revision of plat where it's basically split in half, 6.67 3 acres a piece. And at this time, there are no improvements 4 on either lot. The last time, 30 days ago, we discussed 5 this, about the procedure which we should follow. We find 6 out Thursday at a few minutes before closing time -- and, you 7 know, I'm going to ask the Court if they would get final 8 approval for this plat subject to some wording that has just 9 come across from O.S.S.F. that has to be revised, and I guess 10 resignatured on that final plat. Am I correct on that? 11 MR. VOELKEL: I'm looking over what the -- I just 12 received this the first time from the Environmental Health. 13 And -- and Ray is here to -- 14 MR. GARCIA: I got Dave here also. Make sure you 15 give them that date that that was sent also. 16 MR. VOELKEL: It says date submitted. Is that when 17 I submitted it to y'all? 18 MR. GARCIA: Dave, what date do you -- 19 MR. VOELKEL: Anyway, I submitted this -- these 20 plans for two revisions of plat to their office. Both of 21 them -- well, in this specific instance, no improvements on 22 either lot, and we've submitted those, and there's no -- 23 there's nothing to show. There's no houses, no septic tank. 24 There's a water system out there. Just two vacant lots, and 25 they're just moving the lot line. And at the meeting before, 11-14-11 23 1 a month ago, we talked -- and I reviewed the minutes. We 2 talked about whether or not Environmental Health even had to 3 review these. And at the time, our County Attorney said he 4 would -- would review it and get back to us at the next 5 meeting, which I don't think it happened at the next meeting. 6 But a week and a half or so ago, I met with Jonathan -- I 7 think my brother and I met with Jonathan, and he had said 8 that he had met with Rob and Tish, and they said that this 9 did not come under -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rob and Ray. 11 MR. VOELKEL: Excuse me? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rob and Ray. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Rob and Ray, okay. And they said to 14 Jonathan that this did not come under, you know, 15 Environmental Health review; that they weren't going to be 16 involved. So we proceeded -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What they said was that they 18 didn't have to go through all of the -- I mean, it may go 19 through their office, but it did not require a bunch of extra 20 work. 21 MR. VOELKEL: We delivered it to the office, and -- 22 and we were under the impression that we were going to 23 proceed. Then four or so -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the issue? 25 MR. VOELKEL: The Environmental Health review -- I 11-14-11 24 1 don't really know what the issue -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the issue, Ray? 3 MR. GARCIA: Here's the issue, Buster. In 4 Commissioners Court, there wasn't an issue. Len and -- I 5 forgot who, if it was your brother or you, but up here last 6 time, and you guys brought up the soil analysis and all these 7 other requirements for a professional engineer and all that. 8 That wasn't even the issue on these. There was no 9 requirements, and there had never been any requirements made 10 by Environmental Health Department. All there was was this 11 correspondence here and the requirements that we always have. 12 If there's no improvements on there, there's a statement as 13 such, and then there's a certificate on there. And I'll let 14 Dave go over what he sent to him, but this was sent out in 15 early -- October the 3rd, and then again -- 16 MR. SEAGRAVES: It was submitted September 23rd. I 17 reviewed it October 3rd and faxed out or e-mailed on October 18 4th the deficient items on the plat, and it's just two 19 statements to be incorporated onto the plat. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, two certifications missing 21 in the language here. Other than that, it's okay. 22 MR. SEAGRAVES: Right. 23 MR. VOELKEL: So, what I hear him saying is if we 24 -- and there's one that I think goes on the preliminary plat 25 that says there's no improvements. I don't know that that 11-14-11 25 1 needs to be on the final plat. It says in there -- it's 2 talking about concept plans and preliminary plats. Then it's 3 talking about the final plat in a different item. My 4 impression is that if we put this certification on there, 5 that we put on all of them that y'all do have to review on 6 that. We didn't think we -- we were under the impression 7 they didn't have to review this, so it's not like we, you 8 know, purposely tried to circumvent them. If we put that 9 certification on, then y'all will sign it? 10 MR. GARCIA: The two requirements that you have in 11 your hand there. 12 MR. VOELKEL: Are you talking about that? 13 MR. GARCIA: Where's -- give him the same piece of 14 paper. 15 MR. SEAGRAVES: Yeah. 16 MR. GARCIA: The requirements on there. This right 17 here. 18 MR. VOELKEL: That's what I'm holding. 19 MR. SEAGRAVES: Don, you have a copy of that too. 20 Right, the certification about the -- certification by a 21 registered professional engineer. See, verbally you can say 22 there's nothing out there, but as long as you make the 23 statement, then everybody knows. 24 MR. VOELKEL: Well, but on the other situation, 25 there is -- and I delivered it showing to y'all -- we don't 11-14-11 26 1 normally show structures and stuff on the final plat. It's 2 just the lots. 3 MR. SEAGRAVES: Well -- 4 MR. VOELKEL: No, this statement. 5 MR. SEAGRAVES: Well, this is saying there's no 6 structures, wells -- 7 (Multiple people speaking.) 8 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please. 9 MR. GARCIA: Sorry. 10 MR. VOELKEL: There are -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go back and figure out what 12 needs to be on the plat and come back to us so we can move -- 13 MR. GARCIA: I just want to clarify this 14 last-minute thing from my department, because I need to make 15 sure that the Court understands that this wasn't a 16 last-minute issue with my department and they just found out. 17 And what Len and the Voelkels had brought up on the first 18 one, the preliminary one, was -- had nothing to do with this. 19 The requirements for soil analysis and profile holes, that 20 had nothing to do with any of this. That was never brought 21 up. That was from a prior one that we still haven't 22 resolved, and that's still requiring those particular items. 23 There was not one thing mentioned -- and I had not said 24 anything in the prior Commissioners Court because it had 25 nothing to do with that, and it wasn't the forum to get into 11-14-11 27 1 this. So, the information that you had brought up to this 2 was incorrect, so I just need to make sure -- that was 3 incorrect. 4 MR. ODOM: Oh, no, it's not. 5 MR. VOELKEL: I respectfully dis -- disagree. 6 MR. GARCIA: This is not the forum for this, but I 7 just wanted to clarify that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. But he's the 9 department head. 10 MR. VOELKEL: Right. I've never received -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: End of that conversation. 12 MR. VOELKEL: I understand. I never received these 13 documents. They claimed they e-mailed them. I went through 14 my e-mail list, and what I would -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you resend them to 16 him, please? 17 MR. GARCIA: Yes, we will. 18 MR. VOELKEL: What I would suggest is to do the 19 return receipt. Any time I send something to somebody and I 20 want to know that they got it, there's a -- a method to do a 21 return receipt so they will know that I received these 22 documents that I -- if there's a Bible, I'll tell you, I 23 didn't receive these till today. But my understanding is -- 24 is that if I put this certification on there, then they'll be 25 happy and they'll sign it, the certifications he has in this 11-14-11 28 1 thing. Is that correct, Ray? 2 MR. GARCIA: If it will meet the requirements of 3 the law. 4 MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I'll do that. So, I'll have to 5 take these and put them on, and then bring them back. Could 6 y'all approve it conditional on me getting these on there and 7 getting it ready for them to sign? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the only deficiency in it, 9 Mr. Odom? 10 MR. ODOM: That's right. 11 MR. HENNEKE: The certification, and there's also a 12 statement, and both -- 13 MR. VOELKEL: Right. 14 MR. HENNEKE: -- both need to be included on -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The final plat. 16 MR. HENNEKE: On the final plat. 17 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. On this one, I can do both of 18 those. On the other one that's coming up the next -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we can only do one at a 20 time. 21 MR. VOELKEL: Okay, got it. I'll do it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we approve the final 23 plat on Japonica Hills, Lots 13 and 14B, Volume 5, Page 199, 24 and Volume 6, Page 349, Precinct 4, conditioned upon the two 25 statements being added that were deficient on the proposed 11-14-11 29 1 plat. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 5 signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. At this 10 time, I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting and 11 convene a public hearing concerning the revision of plat for 12 Lots 50 and 51 of Lake Ingram Estates, Section Two, as set 13 forth in Volume 4, Page 242, Plat Records, and located in 14 Precinct 4. 15 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:26 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 16 court, as follows:) 17 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 19 that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision of plat 20 for Lots 50 and 51 of Lake Ingram Estates, Section Two, as 21 set forth in Volume 4, Page 242, Plat Records, and located in 22 Precinct 4? Seeing no one coming forward or seeking to be 23 recognized, I will close the public hearing concerning the 24 revision of plat for Lots 50 and 51 of Lake Ingram Estates, 25 Section Two, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 242, located in 11-14-11 30 1 Precinct 4. 2 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:26 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 3 reopened.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will move to Item 5; to 6 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the final 7 approval of the revision of plat for Lots 50 and 51 of Lake 8 Ingram Estates, Section Two, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 9 242, Plat Records, and located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a revision. Steve 11 and Nancy Juneau own Lot 50, and Robert and Carolyn Bossert 12 own Lot 51. The Juneaus would like to increase their 13 proposed Lot 50R at 8.36 acres, which would leave the 14 Bossert's proposed Lot 51R at 5.29 acres. Lot 51 does not 15 have any improvements, and Lot 50 does have a septic and a 16 cabin on it. So, at this time, we have the same scenario 17 which we just found out about, that there's some wording -- 18 one wording that needs to be added to the existing mylar, and 19 so I would ask the Court to accept this as the final, subject 20 to that addition, same as we did last time. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 24 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 11-14-11 31 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 5 Mr. Odom. At this time, we will move to our 9:15 timed item, 6 Item 7; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 amend the O.S.S.F. Authorized Agents Intergovernmental 8 Agreement with the City of Kerrville and City of Ingram in 9 accordance with T.C.E.Q. Office of Legal Services 10 requirements, as set forth in memo dated 10-6-11, authorized 11 verbiage to be as follows: "This order shall apply to all 12 areas lying within Kerr County, Texas, except for the areas 13 regulated under an existing order, ordinance, or resolution, 14 and those areas under the responsibility of the corresponding 15 T.C.E.Q. regional office. County will regulate O.S.S.F. 16 matters in all areas of the county without an existing order, 17 ordinance, or resolution, except for those areas under the 18 responsibility of the corresponding T.C.E.Q. regional 19 office," end of quote. Further requirements include posting 20 amendment in local newspaper at least three days before 21 Commissioners Court meeting, and send published affidavit, 22 court minutes of approval with the amended order to T.C.E.Q. 23 Mr. Garcia? 24 MR. GARCIA: Yes. Buster? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Just hand me all 11-14-11 32 1 of them and I'll pass them around. Can I trade my orange for 2 the green? 3 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir, pick your color. This was a 4 memo letter that came out from the Texas Commission on 5 Environmental Quality for all Texas O.S.S.F. authorized 6 agents. Subsequently, this was one of the action items on 7 the audit for review compliance enforcement that we just 8 completed with the state, and it is -- the letter I gave you 9 -- I gave you a certified letter, a copy of the second letter 10 that came from T.C.E.Q. in regards to the audit itself, which 11 is referencing the new interlocal agreement or the amendment. 12 We contacted Gus Chavez, as required by the memo, for any 13 guidance and requirements for the amendment, and Mr. Chavez 14 has given us the statement and the verbiage for that 15 amendment that was just read off by you, Judge, and the 16 requirement for having it in the paper. We will come back 17 once it's run its course through the media, and come back to 18 the Court, and the County Attorney and the Court will review 19 it one more time, and then we'll authorize this. 20 This was to change because of the authorized agents 21 having interlocal agreements with other cities or places in 22 their jurisdiction that -- that were not authorized agents, 23 and one in particular is what we have with Ingram. Ingram 24 forfeited their authorized agent, so they are no longer an 25 authorized agent. What this amendment does is take that out, 11-14-11 33 1 and it blanket statements that whoever's in our Kerr County 2 jurisdiction, they fall under the jurisdiction of our 3 authorized agent program. We still have the same authorized 4 agent program with the City of Kerrville, because they are an 5 authorized agent. So, this is -- in essence, this is what 6 this does. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So, at this time, you're asking the 8 Court's approval to go forward to do the -- do the 9 publication notice as required by T.C.E.Q. rules, and once 10 that has been accomplished, then the follow-up action to come 11 before the Court asking for the adoption of that? 12 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's your authority -- 14 MR. GARCIA: That is the request. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to authorize that on a go-forward 16 basis. 17 MR. GARCIA: Yes, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Hold it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to ask a question 11-14-11 34 1 right quick. 2 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see here it talks about 4 that you need to amend -- post the amendment in the local 5 newspaper three days prior to Commissioners Court meeting, 6 and you've said that you're going to do that. 7 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And send published affidavit 9 -- you have that? 10 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And court minutes of 12 approval? 13 MR. GARCIA: When we return, yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's the Court -- this 15 Court? 16 MR. GARCIA: This Court. When I come back with the 17 published affidavit, I'll give that to the County Attorney 18 and the Court, and then that will be -- that's subject to 19 approval. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the whole package, after the 22 Court has taken its final action on it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 25 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 11-14-11 35 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry: Thank you, 5 Mr. Garcia. Let's go to Item 9. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about 6? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got timed items. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I'm sorry. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 9, a 9:20 item. Consider, 10 discuss, take appropriate action concerning filing complaints 11 under the lemon law for Road and Bridge Unit 149, a 2009 12 C7500 Chevrolet dump truck. Mr. Odom? 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I won't bore you with all the 14 facts that I cite here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank goodness. 16 MR. ODOM: Basically, what we've done, we've talked 17 to legal about this and have been in contact with them for 18 some time, and trying to resolve the issue with the Isuzu. 19 We have -- I think the vehicle's approximately, from my 20 memory, two years old, and I've probably had eight months of 21 problems, and continual, and asked them to resolve it. To 22 us, they -- it's supposed to be fixed, but our time is 23 running out on statute of limitations. So, under the advice 24 of legal, we have brought this issue to the Court so you 25 would be aware of what steps we have taken in order to 11-14-11 36 1 hopefully resolve the issue in case, a year from now -- I 2 think we have 20,000 miles on that truck, and you've read my 3 dissertation here of what our problem is. So, what we're 4 asking is the Court's approval to proceed further to file the 5 lemon law act, and that way we -- if something should happen, 6 I think I have recourse against Isuzu or Rush. I hate -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many miles do we 8 typically put on a truck like that? 9 MR. ODOM: I would say we should be running 10 something like 250,000 miles. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 12 MR. ODOM: I got -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Before it would need the kind of 14 attention that it's had to have? 15 MR. ODOM: Sir? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Before it would need the kind of 17 attention that it's had to have? 18 MR. ODOM: Well, we would -- that's probably 19 correct. We might start having injector problems, but not at 20 20,000 miles. While we've got -- we bought two of them at 21 the same time; we have no problems with one. And we've had 22 this continual problem here, and lack of use of it, and I 23 don't need that. I need vehicles up and going. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So that the Court's aware, I have 25 already given notice under the lemon law as required by that 11-14-11 37 1 statute. I did so because of the time frame that we were 2 faced with, and I didn't want to let that deadline pass. But 3 Mr. Odom is just asking for authority to go forward under the 4 procedure that we've started. 5 MR. ODOM: Right. And if we have to, then we'd 6 have authority to ask legal to step in for us. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. ODOM: Protect the taxpayers. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I certainly agree with 10 that, and so I'll move for approval, whatever the order is. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to 13 authorize the Road and Bridge Administrator to go forward on 14 that complaint under the lemon law as to that particular 15 unit. Further question or discussion? All in favor, signify 16 by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 21 Item 10, a 9:30 timed item. We're slowly catching up. 22 MR. WATSON: Getting there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate 24 action on tax abatement for Fox Tank Company. Mr. Watson 25 with K.E.D.C. Good to have you here this morning. 11-14-11 38 1 MR. WATSON: Thank you, Judge Tinley. Thank you, 2 Commissioners. The project that you have in front of you is 3 a project that was brought to us through Mr. Overby, and we 4 have -- you should have a packet -- three-page packet in your 5 packet that we got to Ms. Jody late last week. But we wanted 6 to make sure we had all the information in it before it got 7 to you. Fox Tank Company is a company located in Albany. 8 Their corporate headquarters is in Albany, Texas. They have 9 a satellite operation right now in a leased facility in 10 Comfort. They are looking to build a permanent facility. 11 They build tanks for the oil field industry, and they are 12 within a seven-year contract right now in the -- the Eagle 13 Ford Shale in South Texas. They have been operating in 14 Comfort for a little while now, but as I stated a while ago, 15 they want to build a permanent facility. We are looking at 16 putting them here in Kerr County. 17 They currently have 30 employees, 24 of which are 18 from Kerr County. They are looking to expand that to between 19 60 and 90 employees. They have requested assistance from the 20 community. We are working with E.I.C. and the City to 21 actually get them land from the city, and also the maximum 22 allowable financial assistance from E.I.C. And so, what 23 they've also asked is for a tax abatement from the County. 24 We put together the numbers here that you have in front of 25 you. What their request is is 50 percent for five years, and 11-14-11 39 1 that was discussed with both the Judge and with Mr. Overby, 2 and then presented here today with the -- with the 3 Commissioners Court. As you see, the point system that's put 4 out in the economic incentive agreement, they meet -- they 5 far exceed the point requirements. If they moved into 90 6 employees, they will even exceed that more, because they will 7 have to build a second facility, which will be another $2 8 million investment in the community. So -- and with that, I 9 guess I will take any questions. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The tax abatement that you're 11 speaking of is a graduated -- it begins at 50 percent and 12 then over five years, it goes down to 10 percent each year, 13 so it's 50, 40, 30, 20, 10. 14 MR. WATSON: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Is the -- I guess my question, then, 17 is are they asking for a general favorable response from the 18 Commissioners Court, and then we need to put together an 19 agreement and actually bring back an agreement to the Court 20 for approval and consideration? 21 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 22 MR. HENNEKE: Is that right? So there's no real 23 action required today by the Commissioners Court. 24 MR. WATSON: Our main objective is to have them up 25 and running in January, so that's our main objective. We've 11-14-11 40 1 got everything going through E.I.C. next Monday, and then the 2 City the following day. So -- 3 MR. HENNEKE: But there's no agreement. There's 4 no -- to put into effect the tax abatement program, there's 5 nothing that's been drafted that's ready for -- 6 MR. WATSON: Right. 7 MR. HENNEKE: -- the Commissioners Court to approve 8 that actually sets forth the details of the proposal? 9 MR. WATSON: That's correct. My understanding is 10 that would be done in your office. 11 MR. HENNEKE: So there's no -- no formal action to 12 be taken by the Commissioners Court today. Just -- you're 13 looking for more of a thumbs up or thumbs down? 14 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 15 MR. HENNEKE: In which case, if you get a favorable 16 response, then -- 17 MR. WATSON: We can start drafting. 18 MR. HENNEKE: -- we can put together an actual 19 agreement that sets forth the details and the terms, and 20 bring that back? 21 MR. WATSON: Right. Be back in December sometime. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You say there's going to be 23 -- tell me about the employees again. 60 to 90? 24 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, 60 to 90. They currently 25 have 30 employees, 24 of which are from Kerr County. Their 11-14-11 41 1 goal is to increase that to between 60 and 90, based on the 2 sales that they currently have in process. They have right 3 now seven years worth of contracts with the Eagle Ford Shale 4 project. They expect that to extend, and all of their -- all 5 the stuff that they're being told is that's a 30- to 40-year 6 project. So, anyway -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've said in this room 8 before, and I continue to say it, that I personally think 9 that the abatement should be tied to productivity. If they 10 -- if they say they're going to have 60 employees, when they 11 reach 30 employees, that we should gave give them half of the 12 abatement that they've asked for, and when they reach the 13 full number, then we'll give them the whole enchilada. 14 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know that's not the policy 16 here today, but I hope that we rethink that and put that in 17 place at some point. 18 MR. WATSON: And I definitely think that is -- that 19 is something that's up to the Court to make that decision. 20 One of the things that I will tell you, when you look at 21 incentives, doing a tax abatement on new property is probably 22 the easiest way to -- to incentivize a company, because it is 23 new money that we do not have today, so it makes a lot more 24 sense than giving up front money to a company. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The applicant in this case would be 11-14-11 42 1 expecting clawback provisions -- 2 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if they fail to meet the 60 4 employee target that they have, so that we would be protected 5 in terms of assurances that they would meet that, or there 6 would be appropriate clawback provisions. 7 MR. WATSON: My understanding in reading through 8 the incentive policy that you gave me last week was that, 9 basically, that incentive policy is based on the dollar value 10 of the facility that they have for the tax abatement. And so 11 your clawback would be based on whether they build the 12 facility to standard, so would you actually have your 13 clawback prior to them actually finishing the facility, and 14 therefore, the abatement would not take effect until you 15 actually know what have you on the ground. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Wouldn't start, then -- 17 MR. WATSON: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Abatement is based upon not only the 19 -- the gross value of the improvements placed upon the 20 property that goes on the tax rolls, but also the job 21 creation aspect. It's a two-pronged test. 22 MR. WATSON: And -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So both of those would be part of 24 the agreement. 25 MR. WATSON: Right. 11-14-11 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And I assume that the applicant is 2 aware? 3 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, they are -- they are aware 4 that there will be clawbacks, both from the County and from 5 the City. The -- this project's already passed the I.R.T. 6 review committee for E.I.C., and in that meeting, they have 7 stated that there will be clawback clauses associated with 8 all of the incentives from the City, as well as from the 9 E.I.C. board. So -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, essentially, what you're seeking 11 today is that the Court approve it in principle, subject to 12 the terms of the final agreement. But the actual -- 13 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- approval would be in accordance 15 with the final abatement agreement that this Court is 16 presented with, and hopefully approves. 17 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. And then on top of that, 18 the E.I.C.'s state requirements is for a public hearing, and 19 then a 60-day period, so we will not be finalized with the 20 E.I.C. process, if they choose to go forward with it, until 21 January. So, we do have time to get this accomplished in 22 that amount of time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's E.I.C. -- I mean, 24 what -- that's just their tax portion? 25 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. They're looking at doing it 11-14-11 44 1 based upon the jobs, $10,000 state per job associated with 2 this project. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they're willing to, I mean, 4 put 10,000 to -- 5 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The company? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think another thing is the 8 incentives that Mr. Watson's talking about today, again, is 9 underneath -- supported from the recommendations in our 10 scoring system with the strategic plan that we adopted in 11 '08. I know that Commissioner Baldwin, over the years, has 12 asked, and I've heard him asking, you know, "When do we see 13 something come to fruition about the use of our economic 14 strategic plan and the scoring system?" This is one of those 15 deals right now where we have probably our largest new 16 development that is happening here in Kerr County the last 17 couple of years that I know of, and I think people like the 18 Foxes coming into this community, we ought to be excited 19 about. They're not huge water users. These folks are 20 bringing new sales tax, and as Mr. Watson said, this is new 21 money that we haven't had. This is new money that will come 22 into our area so that we can help our efforts in Kerr County. 23 MR. WATSON: Their current payroll is running at 24 900,000. Their projected payroll is to be somewhere around 25 1.6 to 1.8 million, and that's their annual payroll. So, 11-14-11 45 1 when you look at a one and a half multiplier, we're somewhere 2 in the $3 million range for the community at that point in 3 time. So -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the wage scale of the jobs to be 5 created, actually presently paid to Kerr County employees, is 6 above the current -- 7 MR. WATSON: It's twice that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- scale here in Kerr County? 9 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir, as far as incentive package, 10 it's twice the level. And it is 1.7 times the level of the 11 state average. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We've had the incentive policy in 14 place since September of '08, and we've had the strategic 15 plan adopted actually in January or February of that same 16 year, after about 18 months of work on it. Followed that 17 with the incentive policy, and it was adopted in September, 18 but I'm sure everybody will recall that it was at that point 19 that economic activity virtually ground to a halt, so we 20 haven't had much to consider to plug into these things. And 21 it looks like maybe we're seeing the dawn of a new day, 22 hopefully. 23 MR. WATSON: This is an interesting project, 24 because one of the reasons that they're locating in this area 25 instead of in the Pleasanton area is because they didn't want 11-14-11 46 1 to be in competition with salary within the oil companies. 2 And that was one of the things that they -- when they first 3 started researching where to put this, they found that the 4 workforce here was such that they could come in and -- and 5 train the workforce to work on tigs and mig welders to do the 6 job that they needed done without competing with the $30 to 7 $50 an hour that the Pleasanton area is having to pay for 8 those employees. So, this may lead into other things that 9 could be coming up, because we're still close enough to that 10 area to -- as Mr. Fox has said, to supply the needs, but far 11 enough away that they can actually have employees to work the 12 jobs that they need done. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we need an action to 14 approve the concept? I mean, or do we just -- 15 MR. WATSON: Basically, give Mr. Henneke and myself 16 the room to go forward to create the agreement to come back 17 to you at a later date, I guess is what we would -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still got two questions. 19 Very simple questions. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MR. WATSON: Yes, Commissioner Baldwin? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One is of the 60 employees 23 in Kerr County, about how many of those do you think drive to 24 Comfort a day? 25 MR. WATSON: Twenty-four of those are from Kerr 11-14-11 47 1 County. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know exactly. Good for 3 you. 4 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. And the E.I.C. 5 requirements, the E.I.C.'s already stated they're going to 6 require there to be 50 percent of those 60 employees will 7 have to be from Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good for E.I.C. This is 9 good stuff. Thank you. 10 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I have one more 12 question. 13 MR. WATSON: Yes, sir? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How are you doing with the 15 City about donating land? 16 MR. WATSON: We're working on it. We're working on 17 it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see any bruises or 19 anything. 20 MR. WATSON: No, the coat covers it up pretty good. 21 So -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One last comment. I just 23 want to say, just for the citizens and the taxpayers of Kerr 24 County, just for the abatement process, we're talking about 25 half of one year. Basically, the abatement that they're 11-14-11 48 1 asking for five years is 50 percent of what new sales tax, 2 new property tax that we're going to be collecting as far as 3 for this community in one year. 4 MR. WATSON: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We'll pay that back in six 6 months, so -- 7 MR. WATSON: Their projected sales tax to the 8 county is 42,000 annually, so it's more than double the total 9 amount of the whole tax abatement. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: For a year, talking both ad valorem 12 and sales. 13 MR. WATSON: Total ad valorem is $7,800 a year. 14 Total sales tax is 42,000 a year, for a total value back to 15 the county of 50,000 per year. So, the -- the tax abatement 16 they're requesting way outweighs the taxes that they're going 17 to generate for the county. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'll say that this is 19 the best deal I've seen come forward in many, many years. 20 And in the past, I've been very opposed to doing some of 21 those, because there wasn't really a whole lot of guarantee 22 that we were actually going to benefit that much from it. 23 But it appears that this is -- this is worthy of -- of going 24 ahead and approving it, you know, hopefully, whenever the 25 agreement is drawn up, and it meets what has been presented. 11-14-11 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, a good thing 2 on this is it's a company that's in the area. They're 3 growing in the area; they want to make their facilities more 4 permanent in Kerrville. Moving out of Kendall County into 5 Kerr County, which is good. I think it's a good deal. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion to approve the 7 agreement in principle, subject to the -- for the tax 8 abatement, subject to final contract presentation and 9 approval by the Court? 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 13 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 19 MR. WATSON: Thank you, Judge. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Watson. 21 Let's go to our second 9:30 item, a presentation regarding 22 Texas AgriLife Extension, Kerr County interpretation. 23 Mr. Walston, the "interpretation" has got me curious. 24 MR. WALSTON: Got you curious? Well, actually, 25 we're supposed to do this about four times a year, and I only 11-14-11 50 1 hinder y'all with it a couple of times a year, because I know 2 y'all get to see my lovely face in here often enough. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're getting carried away 4 here. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We sure are. You're not 6 nearly as big a pest as the Sheriff. 7 MR. WALSTON: Can I hang onto this just a second? 8 What this is, I would like to share with y'all just some of 9 the programs that we're doing in a little more detail. These 10 are some of the outcome programs that we've worked on here 11 during 2011. The novice landowner program is one I've worked 12 on for about the past four or five years, trying to work with 13 educating novice landowners in the area of everything from 14 multi-county livestock programs to horticulture, as well as 15 fruit tree management field days and pecan field days that we 16 have in the spring. This past year, I had a series of 17 meetings that met weekly, and we worked with 20 new 18 landowners covering topics from various energy sources, 19 including wind, water, and solar also, as well as on 20 horticulture, fruit/nut production, and small acreage 21 livestock opportunities that are out there. So, of course, I 22 work with them individually as they come in the office on 23 phone calls, site visits, and -- and provide private 24 applicator trainings and continuing education opportunities 25 for those with private commercial or noncommercial licenses. 11-14-11 51 1 Of course, our Master Gardener program right now is 2 a little over 100 certified master gardeners that serve Kerr 3 County, Bandera County, Gillespie County, Kendall County. 4 And the way that's set up, they come in; we provide the 5 educational master gardener training, which is about a 6 12-week program. They sit in and answer phone calls for 25 7 hours to help learn how to answer -- troubleshoot questions 8 with clientele, and then they also go back in the community 9 and do volunteer hours, and working with the various 10 individuals in the community and helping with their 11 horticulture concerns. This past year, those volunteers 12 served 6,393 hours in volunteer service, and meeting 33,206 13 clientele since January of 2011. So, I think it's a well 14 worthwhile program. We're currently looking at revamping our 15 demonstration garden that we have around the office and doing 16 some work in that area. And, honestly, I couldn't do it 17 without them. As far as the number of master -- number of 18 horticulture calls that we have coming through the office, 19 and my time span, I'm -- I'm very fortunate to have that 20 group there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Roy, I don't remember having 22 100 or so master gardeners in the program. Is that -- 23 MR. WALSTON: That's -- we've been certifying 25 a 24 year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 11-14-11 52 1 MR. WALSTON: And this is -- these are active 2 master gardeners. So, we've actually certified -- this 3 started about eight years ago, and these are -- these are 4 ones that are still active. A lot of people come through -- 5 not a lot. Some of them come through; they get certified, 6 they go through the course and do their volunteer hours, 7 become certified, and then may find other things. These are, 8 as you can imagine, mostly retired individuals that are 9 looking for other educational opportunities. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic program. 11 MR. WALSTON: It's interesting -- an interesting 12 group that bring a lot to the table. I'd also like to visit 13 with you briefly about -- I'm going to have to make you a 14 copy of this. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll give her mine when I'm 16 through. 17 MR. WALSTON: Our 4-H livestock project center. 18 Our 4-H livestock project center, we're in the third year of 19 our livestock project center behind the indoor arena. As you 20 can see, it's -- it's been very successful. We're full this 21 year, and starting to see how things -- our plans are working 22 out as it was originally planned and designed. It's working 23 out fine, 'cause you can see in 2010, we had 13 4-H members 24 that were involved. In 2011, which was this past year, I 25 believe we had 33 4-H members involved, and this year we have 11-14-11 53 1 48 4-H individuals. They're able to house their livestock 2 projects in that facility that wouldn't be having an 3 opportunity if we didn't have that facility. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, it's kids 5 that don't have a place to raise an animal, and we provide 6 that here. 7 MR. WALSTON: Yes. Yes. They either live in town, 8 just basically don't have room to be able to do that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the demand greater than -- 10 obviously, you're full up now at 48. 11 MR. WALSTON: We're full this year, and I had to 12 turn two families away because we didn't have room for them. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. WALSTON: That being something that we can work 15 on in the next year with some rearranging. Many of our 16 pens -- as you can see, we've got 21 swine pens. We've got 17 31 pigs. About half the pens are doubled up. We try not to 18 put two different families together in sheep and goats. We 19 do have several families in a pen, and sometimes that helps 20 and works out with them as far as where those families can 21 work together. So, you can see on the survey -- this was a 22 survey that we did. On these kids each year, it's a behavior 23 change that we start to see and evaluate based on their 24 parents' input, as well as the kids, as to how their 25 responsibility and behaviors have changed because of the 11-14-11 54 1 involvement in this livestock program. So, I think it's 2 something that really gives us some good input on some of the 3 changes that we're able to make with these -- these youth. 4 That facility also provides us an excellent opportunity to 5 provide educational clinics for these kids on their livestock 6 projects; gives us a facility to work with them. I spend no 7 telling how many hours a week in that facility; probably an 8 hour to two hours a day in there, and working with the kids 9 and helping them with their livestock project. So, just to 10 give you an idea, it does take a considerable amount of my 11 time to be able to get this pulled off. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 13 MR. WALSTON: Any questions? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your juvenile court, can 15 you order those kids to go out and buy them a pig? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No. But if you'll throw some money 17 in the kitty and start -- start a little fund going, maybe we 18 can find a way to buy them one. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two -- a couple things. One, 20 Roy and his staff certainly spend a lot of time out there, 21 but there's a lot of other volunteers that spend a lot of 22 time, a lot of members of the Stock Show Association that 23 double up with the 4-H stuff. There's some others that 24 are -- I see Dawn over there; she's over there frequently 25 with her husband Eric. There's just a lot of people that 11-14-11 55 1 really put in a lot of time, and it's tremendous, the amount 2 of volunteers we get there. On the -- going to your other -- 3 you're making this one? 4 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The first one. One of the 6 things that has come up, or come to my attention quite a few 7 times the past couple weeks is the fire problems we're 8 probably going to have this spring. Senator Fraser brought 9 it up first in a meeting I had with them. They had -- the 10 Forest Service is expecting this fire season to be much worse 11 than last fire season, and the bull's eye is on the hill 12 country unless the rains change. U.G.R.A. Board is committed 13 to coming up with some sort of a program to help people 14 understand the importance of clearing brush around their 15 houses and doing things around their houses, because some of 16 these large fires get started -- and the other one that was 17 identified was one-third of the absentee landowners are a big 18 part of the concern and the problem. Is there something that 19 your office can do to help work with them? I brainstormed 20 with Ray Buck at U.G.R.A. I thought maybe trying to work 21 with -- is he still here? Or he left -- with Ray and our 22 Environmental Health Department. But I think, you know, you 23 have another whole network of people, and we might ask you -- 24 or try to coordinate some sort of a meeting between U.G.R.A., 25 yourself, and Ray about how to get the word out to the public 11-14-11 56 1 that it's going to be a real -- afraid it's going to be a 2 real problem this year in the spring. 3 MR. WALSTON: We'd be glad to work with them in 4 putting together a community educational evening -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. WALSTON: -- where we just have a couple hours 7 and have them -- we've got several individuals that can do 8 some presentations out on fire-wise preparedness around the 9 household. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if you could work on 11 that, I'd appreciate it. And I'll get with Ray and U.G.R.A. 12 and have them -- steer them over to you. I know you need one 13 more thing to do. 14 MR. WALSTON: No problem. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Roy, you mentioned something about 16 doing some things with that facility to maybe increase the 17 capacity. Did I understand that? 18 MR. WALSTON: Well, it's basically -- the way it 19 was originally set up was -- especially in the swine facility 20 is where we're getting crowded, and it was originally set up 21 where you had one individual in one pen. And this year, you 22 know, we've been able to expand that, because in years past, 23 we haven't had a problem, so we've -- you know, we tried to 24 expand, give them a little extra room. Next year we're going 25 to have to just say, you know, you got one kid; you get one 11-14-11 57 1 pen, and hold them to it. And that's -- that's just the 2 management of it, that we can then actually accommodate -- 3 the only other possibility is putting separate families in 4 and doubling up, 'cause you may have one kid that may just 5 feed one pig, where you can put two kids in there and they 6 can feed two. So, it's going to -- it's going to crowd 7 things, but, you know, there's -- I visited with James 8 Madison, which we're going to go see that facility this next 9 week -- or this week. I visited with that ag teacher over 10 there. They've got 100 pens. They're basically half the 11 size of the pens that we have, and so they're managing 100 12 different individuals in that, just in the swine -- swine 13 facility. So, it's going to take a little more work, and 14 we're learning how to operate it and how to manage it, and so 15 that's something that I think we can do. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, would you -- would 18 you mind making a brief comment about that particular group 19 of kids and how they do not show up in your courtroom, and -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You probably haven't heard that from 21 me before, have you? (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been -- its been three 23 or four days. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But look at the wonderful 11-14-11 58 1 group of folks out here that are interested in their 2 government, and how that we want -- we want to do everything 3 we can to encourage that group. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What Commissioner Baldwin is 5 referring to is, in my capacity as juvenile judge of Kerr 6 County, I frequently make the comment, and continue to do so, 7 that the young people, the children that participate in these 8 4-H and ag-type, perhaps -- 4-H is not just ag and 9 animal-related; there's a lot of other components to that. 10 And the young people that participate in those programs don't 11 show up in my juvenile court. And that made a strong enough 12 impression upon me that the Juvenile Probation Department put 13 in a lot of effort over about a year and a half period of 14 time to put together a program for our juvenile justice 15 children, which in large measure is modeled after the 16 Extension Service 4-H program; basically, Life Skills 17 program. And we're getting good reports on it. We've had it 18 in place now for three years, maybe, maybe a tad longer than 19 that. And we're trying to hopefully use the same principles 20 and skill building that occur in the 4-H program over in the 21 juvenile justice program for the kids that are already in the 22 juvenile justice system to hopefully maybe create the same 23 kind of results that we did in the 4-H program. 24 So, we're looking forward to utilizing those -- 25 those type programs for the benefit of these kiddoes. And 11-14-11 59 1 our juvenile justice referrals have gone down. They continue 2 to go down, which is a good thing, and I think it's in large 3 measure because of our ability to offer more than what you 4 see in standard juvenile programs across the state. We got 5 that program and two or three others that are somewhat "out 6 of the box" type programs, but we're trying them, and I think 7 they're beneficial. So, the one that we really -- really 8 stepped out on was this one that was modeled after the 4-H 9 skills -- Life Skills program, and hopefully it's working. 10 And we appreciate the participation of the Extension Service 11 on that. 12 MR. WALSTON: Glad to help. Appreciate it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Mr. Walston? 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Roy. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 16 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thanks, Roy. See you 18 Thursday. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to our first 20 10 o'clock timed item, the first of -- one, two, three, 21 four -- five, it looks like. Item 13; to consider, discuss, 22 take appropriate action to approve assistance agreement and 23 authorize the County to enter into agreement with all 24 approved and future homeowners as part of the county's 710065 25 O.S.S.F. grant. Ms. Phalan? 11-14-11 60 1 MS. PHALAN: Hi. Just a brief overview of this 2 grant. It was given to the County last October of 2010, and 3 it's to replace failing and substandard septic systems for 30 4 low to moderate households in western Kerrville South, 5 Woodcreek, Hill River Country Estates, Westwood Oaks, and 6 Blue River-Lafayette. And at this point in the grant 7 project, we've asked for people to apply, and we've had some 8 intake sessions in July. And we just received -- we only 9 received 10 applications, and of those, five were eligible. 10 And we're at the point now in the project to approve the 11 assistance agreement, and then start on the approval for the 12 five that are eligible. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item talks about all 14 approved and future homeowners. You're asking for us to 15 approve those five that have been screened and have been 16 approved, as well as subsequent ones within the available 17 funding in the program that in the future have applied -- 18 that apply and that are screened and determined to be 19 eligible? 20 MS. PHALAN: Yes. The assistance agreement is 21 just -- it's a generic assistance agreement that outlines 22 both assistance and right of entry terms between the 23 homeowner and the county. So, what the first agenda item is 24 is just to approve the agreement, and then it'll be signed 25 individually from then on with any approved homeowner in the 11-14-11 61 1 county. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are there others that might 3 be paid for outside of the grant that you're -- that we have 4 available to us at this time? 5 MS. PHALAN: I'm not sure about that. 6 MR. GARCIA: We have a couple. And I've talked to 7 -- and we're back and forth about trying to help others that 8 are just right outside the colonia areas that are listed on 9 this grant, and it -- I assume it's a possibility. But there 10 are a couple that we've already helped through U.S.D.A. Tish 11 and Julie went forward and helped a couple, one in your 12 precinct. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 14 MR. GARCIA: And we're helping some in Precinct 1 15 and 2. Jonathan, we're still looking for them over there as 16 we find that can qualify. But, you know, we are trying, and 17 we are going to propose a list to Emily for Grantworks to see 18 if we can get permission after we've exhausted our attempts 19 to get everybody in the colonia areas that we know that need 20 assistance. But I think one of the things that Emily -- and 21 we are coming up against is those that can't qualify. We're 22 running into a lot of problems with those trying to qualify, 23 and we're trying to help them also. We're trying to scoot 24 them along and get whatever requirements we can. But, again, 25 if they don't meet those requirements, then we're basically 11-14-11 62 1 at a standstill with them; we can't help them. But we'll 2 submit a list, and probably come back to the Court and then 3 maybe get some direction for Grantworks to request outside 4 assistance of those colonia areas. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are they not qualifying? 6 What's the -- is there one -- 7 MS. PHALAN: It's an income qualification, based on 8 the -- they have to be below average for the county. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MS. PHALAN: And then they have to have their taxes 11 paid, and they have to live in the unit, which some of them 12 don't live in. And we do have one person now who doesn't 13 live there because of the septic tank, and he signed an 14 agreement that he will move in once it's -- it's installed. 15 So that if anyone's in that type of situation too, we could 16 help them out. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they have to be able to 18 verify their income? 19 MS. PHALAN: Yes, verify income. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might be a problem. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And, Emily, I think what 22 we're hoping for is that these five applicants that do go 23 ahead and move forward, that that will be positive for others 24 out there that will want to sign up. 25 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 11-14-11 63 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And I think another thing is 2 that we have about 100 -- there's over $100,000 remaining in 3 this grant, and -- and the other thing that we need to be 4 pushing is that our deadline, from what I understand, is June 5 30th of next year as far as that grant to use those funds. 6 Is that correct? 7 MS. PHALAN: October. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: October. So, it's been 9 extended? 10 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, it is October of next 12 year to use those funds, so hopefully those people will share 13 and we can -- we can get that information out to folks, too. 14 MS. PHALAN: Yes. That's been our experience with 15 other grants like this, that once people see the installation 16 taking place, they'll ask their neighbors about it, and 17 hopefully we'll get more applicants. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this agenda item is just to 19 approve the form agreement and authorize the County Judge to 20 sign these future ones as they come forward? You have -- 21 County Attorney, do you have any comments? No problem? 22 MR. HENNEKE: I've reviewed them. They're fine. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11-14-11 64 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? The -- 2 the October deadline, is that for completion, or just for 3 qualification and approval? 4 MS. PHALAN: It's -- the October deadline is the 5 grant period end. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we got to have the money spent 7 by whatever -- 8 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're going to spend under 10 that grant has to be actually expended by that point? 11 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MS. PHALAN: On typical grants like this, we do get 14 extensions. It is favorable for -- for not being able -- 15 quite a few of them don't get it completed in the two-year 16 period, so it's typical to get an extension. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know there are people out 18 there that need assistance, and I hope that that money can be 19 expended to help the people that really need it. That's what 20 it was intended for. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anything we can do to 23 encourage that to happen I think is a good thing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 25 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 11-14-11 65 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 14, a 5 10 o'clock timed item; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 6 action to approve group one homeowners for O.S.S.F. 7 assistance at the following addresses as part of the county's 8 710065 O.S.S.F. grant, that being 134 Annie Lane, 103 Walnut 9 Lane, 113 Annie Lane, 149 Daniel Lane, and 123 Daniel Lane in 10 Center Point. Ms. Phalan, these are the ones that you want 11 the Court to specifically approve right now? 12 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That we just got through discussing? 14 MS. PHALAN: Yes, these are the five eligible 15 homeowners. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 19 the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in favor, 20 signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 15 is 25 also a 10 o'clock item; consider, discuss, take appropriate 11-14-11 66 1 action to approve hiring of site evaluation and design for 2 O.S.S.F. grant 710065 to Hill Country Septic Service. 3 Ms. Phalan? 4 MS. PHALAN: We advertised for bid in September and 5 beginning of October for site evaluators to do this site 6 evaluation and design for the septic systems for the approved 7 homeowners, and we received 25 proposals. Two were 8 incomplete, and then the lowest bidder was Hill Country 9 Septic Service. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's a requirement of the 11 program -- the grant program that you're operating under that 12 to take those bids and then seek the County's approval 13 process of -- of the best qualified -- the qualified low 14 bidder? 15 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, does the grant pay for 18 these site evaluators? 19 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And also, what we're doing 21 here then is actually -- we need to take this action before 22 you actually get the grant -- to get the grant? 23 MS. PHALAN: We have the grant. And -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have the grant. 25 MS. PHALAN: This will just be -- 11-14-11 67 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. PHALAN: -- to determine -- get the design for 3 the people. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these people's salaries 5 and things that they do come out of the grant? 6 MS. PHALAN: Yes, the site evaluator is paid out of 7 the grant. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 14 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Item 16, 19 another 10 o'clock timed item; to consider, discuss, take 20 appropriate action to authorize the County Judge to sign the 21 Small Purchase Procurement Record approving the site 22 evaluation for O.S.S.F. Grant 710065. That's essentially a 23 follow-on action of the previous -- 24 MS. PHALAN: Yes. It's -- the Small Purchase 25 Procurement Record is just the form that the Texas Department 11-14-11 68 1 of Agriculture uses for these grants, and it just authorizes 2 the Judge to award the contract to Hill Country Septic 3 Service. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In accordance with the action we 5 just took in the previous agenda item? 6 MS. PHALAN: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the agenda 9 item. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 12 the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in favor, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 18 Ms. Phalan. We appreciate you being here today. 19 MS. PHALAN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Which brings us to Item 17, 21 which is another 10 o'clock timed item; to consider, discuss, 22 and take appropriate action on request from Helping Hands of 23 Center Point to have the Kerr County Environmental Health 24 Department pay tipping fees of up to $500 for various 25 clean-up projects in Center Point and surrounding areas. 11-14-11 69 1 Ms. Debra Nichols. 2 MS. NICHOLS: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to have you here. 4 MS. NICHOLS: Thank you. I just looked at the 5 program this year. I thought our whole county besides Center 6 Point does need a little work on it; just trying to start in 7 my own neighborhood. And we did -- there's pictures floating 8 around up there somewhere just to show you what our first 9 project was, and we took a project across from the high 10 school in Center Point. If you haven't been through there, 11 big difference. We took 118 man hours, worked on a piece of 12 property, about a dozen volunteers, and we made a huge 13 difference. Our problem with this is the dumping fees; it 14 costs a lot to remove this stuff. So, I've been working with 15 Ray, and maybe we can help each other at this point, that we 16 can help the county and they can help us by taking $500, 17 which we've discussed that dollar figure, and allowing it 18 where we can take -- when we're doing a cleanup project, that 19 we can take the trash, whatever is piled up on there, to the 20 dump; it doesn't cost us. Because we have to raise the 21 funds, which we are still raising funds to support it. But 22 it costs a lot to start dumping. When you're talking about, 23 you know, 10 trailer loads off one piece of property, it gets 24 kind of expensive. 25 So, we thought at the same time, we could help 11-14-11 70 1 clean up some of the projects that they would like to see 2 cleaned up, and so it was kind of a mutual situation that I 3 think that we can benefit each other. But I know it says 4 Center Point; we're just not just for Center Point. We just 5 happened to start there, looking out our own back door, and 6 then we've just kind of worked forward with that. And I 7 think if each precinct -- maybe we can head up different 8 volunteer groups, that if they will just take care of that 9 precinct, and we'll kind of work with each other on that. 10 So, at this time, basically we're just asking for the 11 approval of the E.P.A. granting us $500 worth of tipping fees 12 to pay for the dumping. 13 MR. GARCIA: One of the other things we talked 14 about is properties being in violation already, and if we had 15 any type of court -- court citations on that property, that 16 we talked to Ms. Nichols about that. We wouldn't -- she 17 would give us the address to verify, and if we did have 18 things in -- in enforcement for public nuisance or repeat 19 offenders, they wouldn't go over there and clean up and waste 20 taxpayers' money on cleaning up somebody that we currently 21 have an enforcement. So, it was brought up, and we just -- 22 checks and measures just to make sure that they're not 23 cleaning up somebody's property that, you know, has been a 24 repeat offender and so forth. So, there are some avenues 25 that we're taking to make sure that that doesn't happen. And 11-14-11 71 1 they'll check with us on each project throughout the county, 2 wherever they go to clean up. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You have funds in your budget 4 available to handle these landfill tipping fees? 5 MR. GARCIA: Yes, I do. And, again, this 6 current -- I guess the C.S.I., the last big one that we had, 7 the same amount or somewhere around there. The amount we 8 paid was $469 or $496 in tipping fees for their project. 9 This -- this one would go -- they would -- it wouldn't happen 10 all over a weekend, but that $500 would be stretched out over 11 a period of time until they completed it, before the next 12 fiscal budget. 13 MS. NICHOLS: We don't plan on this being a 14 once-a-year thing. We plan on doing it as often as we can. 15 I can't say it's going to be weekly, but it will 16 definitely -- should be a monthly project. Of course, 17 working with volunteers, you work around schedules and stuff 18 sometimes. The project we done took a month. It was really 19 bad. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think the 21 concern I have -- or the question I have is really probably 22 more to the County Attorney. The other projects that we've 23 done have been kind of along rivers and creeks and things, 24 which are kind of, I guess, sort of public property. Here 25 we're going in, we're spending tax dollars to clean up a 11-14-11 72 1 private individual's property. 2 MR. GARCIA: C.S.I. did that also, Jon. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They did that as well? 4 MR. GARCIA: Yes, they were cleaning up -- that's, 5 I think, one of the things I talked to -- well, I talked to 6 the Court about that, is that we -- Buster, you had asked me 7 if they're cleaning up anything that we needed to clean up, 8 or people that we know that need help, and we did give them a 9 list, and subsequently we got two of those cleaned up out of 10 the list that we gave them. But in this case, same 11 situation. Like I said, just a different name of -- the 12 C.S.I., that's all they did was public. 13 MS. NICHOLS: By the way, we do continue on -- even 14 where I live, we have the association that does the Adopt a 15 Highway thing, but we, on a continuous basis -- Government 16 Crossing, if anybody's been over the bridge, is cleaned up, 17 because we got together as a group, got ahold of D.O.T., in 18 conjunction -- we did that together. So, I mean, it looks 19 much better. It looks much better than it did. And I think 20 that, you know, that just shows that we're not just for 21 individuals. Any property that we see needs to be cleaned 22 up, we're trying to help do that, but only for people -- 23 we're not doing it for people that has the money to go out 24 and do it themselves. We're doing it for people that needs 25 it -- needs help, overwhelmed with the work that needs to be 11-14-11 73 1 done, just don't have the health to do it, the money to do 2 it. It's not just for everybody. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's a -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I might note, there's a kind of 5 poster going around that has a couple of examples of what 6 they've been doing, and I want to congratulate you on your 7 work. 8 MS. NICHOLS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There's -- obviously, there's before 10 and after, a marked difference. 11 MS. NICHOLS: And it is right across from the high 12 school. I mean, literally across the high school from Center 13 Point, and just amazing, the difference. The people that 14 just stop by and go -- could not believe that this was done, 15 and they're still making comments on it, because it is a -- 16 it was a terrible eyesore. And, you know, not knocking the 17 lady that lived there. People thought they were doing her 18 good over time, dropping things off, thinking she could use 19 it, and it ended up just staying right there in the yard 20 until it just piled up to the unbelievable mess that it was. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure it's been a source of 22 community pride, too, that those things are done. 23 MS. NICHOLS: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a comment? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just going to say that 11-14-11 74 1 this is really a neat deal, how a community cleans up after 2 themselves, and I think that someone needs to talk to the 3 landfill folks about -- 4 MS. NICHOLS: I tried. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I recommend somebody 6 with a gun. 7 MS. NICHOLS: Well, right. 8 MR. GARCIA: I did plan on doing that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 10 MS. NICHOLS: I would still like to go back. I 11 couldn't even get in the door, if that tells you anything. 12 When I first started, that was my concern. It wasn't just 13 the landfill; there was another company in town. I'm not 14 going to mention names, but -- however, I did go to everybody 15 asking for help, you know, discounted fee, especially at the 16 landfill. I know that it doesn't have to be hauled to San 17 Antonio if it's brush, things like that. They wouldn't give 18 me a break on any of it at the time. But, again, I was just 19 beginning. You know, they didn't know me. But I'm hoping 20 with future help, maybe they can even give us discounted 21 rates. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The landfill needs to 23 decrease their tipping fees for this program. 24 MS. NICHOLS: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just say it. 11-14-11 75 1 MS. NICHOLS: I would really like to see that, and 2 I would like to talk to them. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, we never do 4 anything for Center Point. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Watch it. 6 MS. NICHOLS: Watch it there. I have a lot of 7 faith in Center Point, that it can change. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'd like to say this, though, 9 you know, to the Commissioners. Beginning of the year, Debra 10 came to me and started visiting with me, and I -- my hat's 11 off to you, and I applaud you for the efforts in organizing 12 Helping Hands, and that you saw the community get behind and 13 organize this effort, and, I mean, making a good thing happen 14 in our community and the Center Point community. And I 15 applaud the organization. And with that, I'm going to 16 support -- to make the motion that we use for Center Point 17 Helping Hands requesting $500 in tipping fees to be paid by 18 Kerr County Environmental for dumping receipts as provided 19 through the KCLD program. Thank you for offering that. Your 20 organization's doing an excellent job. 21 MS. NICHOLS: Appreciate it. And if, any time, we 22 can meet with each Commissioner to -- maybe if you can help 23 me with people in your area, that maybe we can form a group 24 in each area so we can not just skip -- just have Center 25 Point that will benefit from it. 11-14-11 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I hear a motion. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second that motion, with 4 a comment. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second. 6 Mr. Brian Wright filed a participation form. Mr. Wright? 7 MR. WRIGHT: I'm one of Debra's volunteers with 8 Helping Hands of Center Point. 9 MS. NICHOLS: I appreciate it. 10 MR. WRIGHT: And I have to say, as an organization 11 that's -- and I think it's one of the better organizations 12 that's around, and I am involved with quite a few nonprofits, 13 and feel like most of my life is nonprofit right now, so -- 14 but any time you'd like to come to Center Point and 15 participate a little bit more, Buster, we'd love to see you 16 there. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd love to, but I'm busy 18 today. 19 MR. WRIGHT: Okay. 20 MS. NICHOLS: Well, how about Wednesday? 21 MR. WRIGHT: And what precinct is the landfill in? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2 or 3. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Might be in 3. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I don't know. It's right off 25 the loop. It's either 2 or 3. 11-14-11 77 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2 or 3. The lines -- the power 2 line's kind of the dividing line. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'm going to say it's 3. 4 (Laughter.) 5 MR. WRIGHT: I thought you would. We would 6 appreciate anything, any help from the Commission. Been 7 talking to the landfill to try to reduce the fees. That 8 would just make this go even further. Thank you, gentlemen. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: My comment goes with the 10 second, that I think that Mr. Garcia needs to visit with the 11 City of Kerrville; maybe get on the City of Kerrville's 12 Council agenda and make a formal request that those dumping 13 -- tipping fees be reduced for certain nonprofit 14 organizations who are trying to clean up the area, and as 15 volunteers. And surely they will be willing to -- to ask 16 Waste Management, you know, in their contract or something 17 that they negotiate with them annually or however they do it, 18 to consider that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're talking about stuff 20 that doesn't get hauled to San Antonio, talking about stuff 21 that stays at the landfill here. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment with 24 regard to the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 11-14-11 78 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Maybe this 5 would be a good time to take about a 15-minute recess. We'll 6 come back and we'll go to our next timed item, take that up 7 at that time. Thank you. 8 (Recess taken from 10:27 a.m. to 10:43 a.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 11 we might, please, from our recess. Mr. Lavender, can you 12 catch that door, please? There we go. We have a 10:39 timed 13 item. It's just a bit past that now. Item 26; consider and 14 discuss Kerr County policy for non-county maintained 15 impassable roads. Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you very 17 much. And forgive me, I don't have that in my hand, but I 18 can pretty much talk about it. We'd -- as y'all all know, 19 every year we get one, two, three requests for the County to 20 go out and work on -- particularly Primrose Lane road, and if 21 you remember also, the first part coming off of Bear Creek 22 Road, the first part -- I don't remember the length. It's a 23 quarter of a mile or something that is county road. Back in 24 the olden days when that subdivision was adopted, it's 25 County-maintained road, and we do exactly that. But the rest 11-14-11 79 1 of the road deteriorates, and at times becomes impassable. 2 And we have a county policy that is fairly clear that when a 3 citizen feels like that the road is impassable in certain 4 places, they contact us, and we ask the Sheriff's Department 5 to go out there and drive that part of the road and -- and 6 make the decision whether it's passable or not, and 7 particularly for ambulance, fire truck, police issues, 8 emergency vehicles to get up and down that road. And if the 9 Sheriff's Department says, "No, I don't think it's passable," 10 then the Commissioners Court dispatches the Road and Bridge 11 Department to go out there, and with minimal work, make it 12 passable for emergency vehicles. And we do that on a 13 one-time basis only, and from that point on, the citizens 14 that own that road should maintain their own. Now, we deal 15 with this a lot, and -- and there is remedies to this thing. 16 And we've passed out, and we mail -- mail the -- what's the 17 road system? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unit road system. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Road district. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The road district 21 information to those folks, and then they can, you know, make 22 the decision whether they want to fix it that way. And, you 23 know, again, county -- county involvement in that, and it's a 24 great program. And for some reason, people don't want to -- 25 don't want to deal with it. But as I read the policy, we 11-14-11 80 1 have gone out there and we have done our work one time. Now, 2 personally, I am not in favor of changing that policy. I 3 have -- I have a fear -- like some people do of snakes, I 4 have fears of us doing -- using government -- county moneys 5 to work on private property. I just have a fear of that. I 6 think it's wrong. And I'm -- of course, I'm not going to say 7 this, but if I were going to say it, it would be something 8 like, these folks bought their property. We had nothing to 9 do with them. They made the decision to purchase their 10 property on a bad road. And it is not up to -- in this 11 particular case, on Primrose Lane in Precinct 1, it's not -- 12 it shouldn't -- the folks out at Mountain Home that pay taxes 13 out there shouldn't be held accountable for that -- for that 14 issue. I just don't -- I don't get it, and I'm not willing 15 to participate in it. 16 Now, the latest folks that -- I think they've been 17 in this courtroom before, had written me an e-mail last week, 18 and I put them on the agenda, tried to get them back in here, 19 and so we could have a discussion about it, and maybe the 20 County Attorney, and legally, could once again tell us what 21 the law is and let the public know what the law is on that 22 issue. And I get the e-mail that says that they would rather 23 not come and participate in that, but also I understand that 24 they're in this room, and I hope that they have the 25 opportunity and the desire to -- to address this 11-14-11 81 1 Commissioners Court on that issue. But -- so, with that in 2 mind, I'm not willing to do anything until we see what's said 3 in here today. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a participation form 5 here from Kim Carey. 6 MS. CAREY: Yes. Hi. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hi, Ms. Carey. It's nice to 8 meet you. 9 MS. CAREY: Well, we met before. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MS. CAREY: How can you forget? (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it is difficult. 13 MS. CAREY: I know. I left yesterday to get here 14 because of the road. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. 16 MS. CAREY: I did make on it time, but it took 17 quite a while to get here. That was a joke. Okay. I want 18 to try to make a little bit light of the subject. The last 19 time we were here, it got out of control and I got very 20 angry, but there's some things that need to be corrected. 21 When my husband and I bought the property, we did find out -- 22 we attempted to find out about the road. We were told that 23 the road was donated to the county, and that the county did 24 maintain it on a grading basis; that you didn't pave it, but 25 that you did grade it. So, we did do what we thought was our 11-14-11 82 1 part, and had no reason to believe differently, that you 2 didn't, because when we bought the property, the road was in 3 good condition. So, had it been in the condition that it is 4 now -- and let me specify, it's just the third hill right now 5 that's bad. 6 Several months ago, the county came out and did a 7 superb job from the beginning almost up to where we live, 8 which is the 2-mile mark. You did an amazing job. But that 9 last hill coming down is so steep that it -- it won't hold 10 the grade. It has to be maintained maybe four times a year, 11 and that's what we're asking for. We're five families. 12 We're blue-collar, low income. We cannot possibly afford to 13 do this. It's literally impossible. We also have one 14 resident; he's an elderly man, and he has a huge garden, and 15 he donates what he grows to CAM, the Christian organization. 16 But now CAM's not able to get out there because of the road 17 being so bad, so that's kind of a tragedy in itself, that 18 they can't get out there. We have another resident that 19 broke his neck in an automobile accident, and he has some 20 kind of a mechanism in his neck now, so going up and down 21 that hill every day is just not good for his situation. 22 The reason I'm here and they're not is they're 23 working. One resident's elderly. The other resident is a 24 local firefighter, and he's the one that always tells us that 25 an ambulance or fire truck wouldn't be able to get down or 11-14-11 83 1 back out again in the event of an emergency. And I think 2 Mr. Letz mentioned the potential for serious fires in the 3 up-and-coming -- if the drought continues. So, you know, 4 we're concerned about that as well. I don't know what to say 5 other than we need the county's help periodically. You've 6 actually been out there a lot more than once since -- in the 7 eight years that we're out there, so I'm not sure where you 8 got your information from, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know anything 10 about that. I wanted to -- 11 MS. CAREY: But you authorized it. That's why I'm 12 not sure why you don't know about that, 'cause you authorized 13 it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because I didn't. That's 15 why. 16 MS. CAREY: Well, no, you did. You did, because it 17 goes through your office. If you go back -- and you said you 18 don't remember a lot of things, and I agree; I don't either. 19 I think it's our age. But -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me tell -- 21 MS. CAREY: -- I guarantee that you did. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me tell you something 23 about dedication. There's a lot of plats from a long time 24 ago, that subdivision in particular. 25 MS. CAREY: Right. 11-14-11 84 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And many, many others around 2 the county. When they -- on that plat, they say, "These 3 roads are dedicated to the county." 4 MS. CAREY: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. A dedication -- I 6 mean, you can dedicate your donkeys to the county. 7 MS. CAREY: And I have one. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You need one. And until the 9 Commissioners Court accepts that dedication, it isn't -- it's 10 meaningless. 11 MS. CAREY: Okay. But we didn't know that. We 12 were told the county -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 14 MS. CAREY: We thought we did our homework. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. I understand 16 that. 17 MS. CAREY: Okay. So, you know, we're not asking 18 for a lot. It's not like we're asking you to go buy new 19 equipment. We're just asking that when we can't get in or 20 out, that if you could just send the grader. Just let 21 Mr. Odom come out with a grader and just grade it so that we 22 can get in and out. That's all. And the rest of the road's 23 holding up beautifully from what you did last time; it really 24 is. It's just that third hill. And I invite anyone in this 25 room to come see for yourself. And I think -- 11-14-11 85 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody wants to go out 2 there. 3 MS. CAREY: Yeah, I -- exactly. Nobody wants to go 4 out there. That's a benefit; we don't have a lot of traffic. 5 But, you know, there's only five families, and we're citizens 6 too. And we're made to feel like we're not really counted. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me just add a comment, 8 because I'm probably the commissioner that has done the most 9 with road districts, trying to get road districts through in 10 the last several years. None of them successful, I might 11 add. The situation is identical to what you're saying. And 12 we have a lot of residents in this county that live on roads 13 similar to yours. 14 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if -- we have a very strict 16 policy, which is -- we think is what we need to follow. I 17 think we need to follow it. If we start going out and fixing 18 these roads, we will use our entire budget for our Road and 19 Bridge Department for fixing these roads; there's so many of 20 them all over. There are -- there are roads out in -- I'm 21 not sure if your road, but I can assure you I have roads as 22 bad, if not worse, in my precinct. Out at the end of Mill 23 Dam Road, there's areas out there -- those people don't want 24 us out there, which is a good thing, but those roads are 25 horrendous. Down in almost Bandera County, down around Pipe 11-14-11 86 1 Creek, we've got developments out there; we tried to do a 2 road district. It failed, but it's the same situation. And 3 why -- you know, I'll tell you the same thing I've told my 4 constituents, is that I'm sorry you're in the situation 5 you're in, but we cannot spend tax dollars to fix roads for 6 everyone in the county. And if we do it one time, we have no 7 ability to say no to other people. 8 MS. CAREY: But you've done it several times. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under a very strict policy. 10 MS. CAREY: But it also says in -- you know, the -- 11 in your responsibilities as commissioners, you're responsible 12 for keeping your citizens safe. You know, you work for the 13 people, and when we're asking for something small, I just 14 don't see -- I mean, we're -- we would even pay the county 15 additional funds to do it. I tried calling a private 16 facility the other day, and they said, "We don't do that; we 17 just pave." Well, we can't afford paving. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can give you the name of lots 20 of contractors that have very -- very small operations that 21 do it. The one that comes to mind is Ernie Kaiser in Center 22 Point. He has a small maintainer and backhoe and a dump 23 truck, and that's exactly the kind of work that he does. 24 Reeves Construction in Center Point does it. There's a lot 25 of contractors that -- you know, I don't know that many out 11-14-11 87 1 in the western part of the -- the county as much, or this 2 area, but I know -- I'm sure they're out in the Ingram area. 3 There's also contractors that are -- use small equipment and 4 are not huge. If you go to someone like, you know, Edmund 5 Jenschke or J3, those are big contractors. They're not going 6 to want to do these, but there are small contractors in the 7 county that, you know, are available as well. And I have to 8 look at it -- it's not that -- I have nothing against you, 9 nothing against your neighbors. 10 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we do it for one -- 12 MS. CAREY: But you have done it. I just need -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did it under a written 14 policy, and it's a one-time event. 15 MS. CAREY: But it's been done more -- doesn't the 16 fact that you've done it more times than once, doesn't that 17 negate the fact that you only do it once? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You say we've done it more than 19 once. 20 MS. CAREY: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Our position is, under that policy, 22 we have not done it more than once. 23 MS. CAREY: But you have. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand what you're 25 saying, ma'am. And I don't want to say you're -- you're 11-14-11 88 1 laying an untruth before us. 2 MS. CAREY: Well, I can tell -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you what you're asking 4 us to do. 5 MS. CAREY: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You say that what we want is not a 7 great deal. We don't -- we don't want a lot. What you're 8 asking us to do is to knowingly violate the law. 9 MS. CAREY: But don't you make policy? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a policy in place. Yes, 11 ma'am, we do. And we don't knowingly violate the law. 12 And -- 13 MS. CAREY: But if y'all make policy -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Hear me out, please. 15 MS. CAREY: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to violate the law. 17 We're not going to tell Road and Bridge to do something that 18 puts them outside of the law, or outside our policy. Now, 19 there was an e-mail that was sent to myself and -- and Road 20 and Bridge and to Commissioner Baldwin dated October 21. Are 21 you familiar with that e-mail? 22 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. That was from me, yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 24 MS. CAREY: That was from me. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're the author of that? 11-14-11 89 1 MS. CAREY: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The second sentence in that 3 -- the third sentence, rather, says, "While we do realize 4 that your priorities are with the affluent neighbors, we 5 would appreciate a little time, a little help for the little 6 people." 7 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: When I saw that, Ms. Carey, I was 9 personally offended by it. 10 MS. CAREY: I was hoping to offend everybody. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motive to me, personally, that a 12 person's financial standing made a difference on what this 13 Court did or did not do, and I want to assure you that is not 14 correct. 15 MS. CAREY: No, it's not. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That is not correct. And I was 17 offended by that. 18 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I've seen subsequent e-mails that 20 have been -- 21 MS. CAREY: Well, Judge, I invite you to my home 22 this afternoon. And -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not coming to your house, ma'am. 24 MS. CAREY: I know. Nobody will. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not coming to your house. 11-14-11 90 1 MS. CAREY: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But what you're asking us to do is 3 to violate the law. It's easy to sit back and throw bombs 4 over the hill, and then expect the populous, the other folks 5 paying taxes, to come to your aid. 6 MS. CAREY: I don't pay taxes? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not going to -- 8 MS. CAREY: No. I don't pay taxes? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The other folks that pay taxes. 10 MS. CAREY: The Bensons, the Guzardos, the 11 Sanchezes? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ma'am, you're asking other people in 13 this room to -- 14 MS. CAREY: I'm not asking you to break the law. 15 I'm asking you -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ma'am? 17 MS. CAREY: -- to amend the law. You work for me, 18 sir. So does he, he, he -- oh, yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ma'am, you're through. 20 MS. CAREY: You work for me, everybody in here. 21 Because you're all a bunch of cowards. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You are through. 23 MS. CAREY: Yeah, you laugh. You laugh. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry you feel that way. 25 MS. CAREY: You laugh all the way to the polls when 11-14-11 91 1 Harley takes your seat. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you very 3 much. Can you tell me if you're going to vote for me or not? 4 MS. CAREY: That was uncalled for. That offended 5 me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments to be offered in 7 connection with Item 26? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do not. 9 MR. CAREY: Can I say something about the -- is it 10 too late? Can I just mention something? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, you may. Come forward. 12 MR. CAREY: My name is Bruce Carey, Kim's husband. 13 And about her e-mail, I'm sorry you were offended by it, but 14 we travel Sheppard Rees Road all the time to get to our 15 house, and they have a crew practically dedicated to that 16 road. We see the equipment up there constantly. You can go 17 and get their -- I'm sure they have records of where they 18 work at. They repave that road a couple times a year. We're 19 just -- and the machinery is sitting on that road, or down on 20 Bear Creek Road. While they're doing work on that, we're 21 just asking -- like, we see the graders there, and when they 22 grade the road, it takes about an hour. I mean, just an 23 hour; that's all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And also violates the law, sir. 25 MR. CAREY: Okay. Well, it does look -- it does 11-14-11 92 1 look like, you know, when you're -- they're -- every time 2 there's a small pothole, they're up there fixing it. 3 MS. CAREY: And the private driveways. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. We're through. 5 MS. CAREY: Yeah, you're through. You're such a 6 coward. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we are going to go to Item 36. 8 We've got Mr. Dusty Traylor here with us with RBC Capital, 9 and he's only got a few moments to be with us, so I wanted to 10 go ahead and get these items out of the way. Consider, 11 discuss, take appropriate action on order expressing official 12 intent to reimburse with tax-exempt obligation proceeds for 13 costs associated with constructing or acquiring various 14 improvements and/or capital assets within the county. 15 Ms. Hargis, you're listed on the item, but -- 16 MS. HARGIS: We can share the podium. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you're here with RBC. 18 MS. HARGIS: Basically, we are anticipating that we 19 will have to issue a new note in the -- in January or 20 February, and in order to cover any costs that we might incur 21 prior to getting those funds sold, we need this resolution in 22 place so that we can basically reimburse ourselves for any 23 costs that we might incur prior to the actual issuance of the 24 -- the funds. We have done this on all of the other issues 25 that we have done, so that if we need money for any of the 11-14-11 93 1 items that we have on the issue, then we have those available 2 to reimburse. And I'm sure Mr. Traylor would answer any 3 questions that you might have with that remark. 4 MR. TRAYLOR: Again, for the record, Dusty Traylor 5 with RBC Capital Markets. Bob Henderson and myself, as RBC 6 Capital, have the honor and privilege of serving the county 7 as financial advisors. As Jeannie was saying, this 8 resolution is -- is just kind of a housekeeping chore that 9 the County has undertaken many times prior to the issuance of 10 certificates of obligation or other types of debt, before you 11 finance the various projects. This will allow you to go back 12 and reimburse the County with tax-exempt bond proceeds once 13 they're ultimately issued. This resolution has been prepared 14 by Tom Spurgeon, your bond attorney at McCall Parkhurst 15 Horton. He's looked at the list of projects and so forth, 16 and prepared the resolution with those projects in mind. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This is standard policy? 18 We've done this in the past; is that correct? 19 MR. TRAYLOR: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll make a motion to approve 21 the resolution. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the resolution. Further question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one other question. 11-14-11 94 1 Is your real name Dusty Trails? 2 MR. TRAYLOR: Traylor. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dusty Traylor. 4 MR. TRAYLOR: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's -- 6 MR. TRAYLOR: Robert Dustin Traylor is my name. 7 I've been called Dusty my entire life. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you imagine having the 9 name Buster? 10 MR. TRAYLOR: Well, I don't know. I get -- I do 11 get a lot of grief. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure that's your name right 13 now, Mr. Baldwin. (Laughter.) We can go outside and make 14 inquiry. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm staying in here, and 16 Rusty's staying in here with me. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're on your own, Buster. 18 (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 20 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. In 11-14-11 95 1 connection with Mr. Traylor's business, we have agenda items 2 19 through 25 which relate to the East Kerr project that we 3 need to bring before the Court at this time. I'm going to 4 call all of them, because they're all run together and 5 inter-related. Item 19; to consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to approve the "Application Filing and 7 Authorized Representative Resolution" concerning the Clean 8 Water State Revolving Fund. Item 20; to consider, discuss, 9 take appropriate action to approve the "Certificate Regarding 10 Lobbying" concerning the Clean Water State Revolving Fund. 11 Item 21; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve the "Application Affidavit" concerning the Clean 13 Water State Revolving Fund. Item 22; consider, discuss, and 14 take appropriate action to approve the "Application 15 Resolution-Certificate of Secretary" concerning the Clean 16 Water State Revolving Fund. Item 23; consider, discuss, and 17 take appropriate action to approve the "Texas Water 18 Development Board-Application/Entity Affirmative Steps 19 Certification and Goals" concerning the Clean Water State 20 Revolving Fund. Item 24; consider, discuss, and take 21 appropriate action on submitting necessary documents for the 22 Clean Water State Revolving Fund loan. And Item 25; 23 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on EDAP 24 wastewater, as to Kerr County, and EDAP water, as to 25 U.G.R.A., projects. Commissioner Letz, I'll let you open 11-14-11 96 1 this up. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me probably go to the last 3 one first and address the EDAP situation, and then that will 4 move us into the other ones, I think, pretty quickly into the 5 state water revolving fund. The County had -- just to 6 refresh everyone's memory, the County was responsible and 7 submitted an EDAP program going for the wastewater project, 8 and U.G.R.A. took the EDAP water part of that project. We 9 are progressing, finalizing ours after several extensions. 10 There's been some problems on the environmental assessment, 11 getting that completed. We are, I think, over the hurdle on 12 the wastewater side, and we'll be submitting our final phase 13 of that grant in February. 14 U.G.R.A. is going to address this later this week, 15 but the -- and what I anticipate them doing is, they've had 16 more problems than we've had on the environmental side, and 17 the other actions -- it certainly could change between now 18 and Wednesday, but I believe they are probably going to not 19 proceed with the EDAP program, and close -- close that grant. 20 There's been too many hurdles. The basic hurdle is -- or the 21 biggest part of it is the staff at Water Development Board 22 wants them to do an intensive environmental assessment on 23 property that may be used for a facility -- a large facility. 24 We're talking about a 10-acre tract that U.G.R.A. doesn't 25 own, don't know if they can get access to, and from intensive 11-14-11 97 1 standpoint, they want ditches dug pretty much on a 6-foot 2 grid across the property, and U.G.R.A. is not willing to -- 3 and the cost of that is not -- would be over and above what 4 U.G.R.A. has, you know, committed to spend so they're not 5 going to go forward with it, I don't believe. 6 They are committed, from what their board has said, 7 to providing water to Center Point, and they're looking at a 8 different route to accomplish that. They're looking at 9 working with the City of Kerrville, through the existing 10 water treatment plant, or building a -- putting in a package 11 plant somewhere maybe on possibly Flat Rock, another option 12 they're looking at, and then piping the water from where 13 their current diversion is, or close to it, to the Center 14 Point area from the Kerrville area, rather than doing an ASR 15 program in the Center Point area. So, that's kind of -- 16 that's their whole issue. It's on our agenda in case we 17 wanted to try to fulfill that obligation under that -- the 18 water grant, 'cause they're very closely tied. And my 19 recommendation is that we do not do that; we just let 20 U.G.R.A. handle that water side, and we'll just work on the 21 wastewater side. I think we would have the same problems if 22 we tried to take over that application, and I think there are 23 just other ways to do it. U.G.R.A.'s exited about the 24 overall concept. I think we should let them run with 25 providing the water in that area. 11-14-11 98 1 That gets to the Clear Water State Revolving Fund. 2 Last week -- well, several months ago, we ranked very high. 3 We were aware of that. We submitted an application to Tetra 4 Tech. We submitted that, the County did, and we knew it 5 ranked one, but we were always under the impression that the 6 State Revolving Fund was a loan program. And while there was 7 a -- frequently the loans were partially forgiven, there was 8 no commitment to partially forgive them, so we were 9 interested in it, but not real, real interested in it. Well, 10 last week Commissioner Overby, myself, and a whole slough of 11 other people -- the Auditor, Dusty Traylor, Keller 12 Drozdick -- met with even a larger number than that from 13 Water Development Board, and they basically said that it's a 14 70/30 loan program, but 70 -- as a commitment, 70 percent of 15 it will be forgiven. So, basically, it's -- 70 percent of 16 it's a grant; 30 percent would come from a local contribution 17 of some sort. The other part of it was, they'd like to start 18 construction by April of 2013. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whoa. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's early. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which was a -- you know, a 22 little bit of a shock to us. But the funds are there. We 23 talked about a lot of options. We could go forward with only 24 a planning and development grant right now, but that gives -- 25 the big risk with that is it gives others -- then we would 11-14-11 99 1 have to kind of refight to get the top spot, or the top 2 spots. And at a future funding phase, we could get the 1.9 3 million, about 2 million for the planning/development 4 portion, but there'd be no commitment to the rest of the 5 construction. If we go forward right now, we're pretty much 6 assured that they will -- assuming we get the application in 7 properly and they go along with everything, they'll commit to 8 a little over 14 -- $14 million for almost a $17 million 9 project. We'll get into that in a minute. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Huge. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's huge. We've talked about 12 it quite a bit, and it appears that it is probably better to 13 really push this and try to go under this deadline, ask for 14 the full amount under the application, and then in the coming 15 months, if it becomes obvious that we just can't make it, we 16 can't get -- you know, if having construction in a little 17 over a year is not feasible or possible, we would phase back 18 at the last minute under this current round we're in. And 19 then we would just have to go back and try to get money 20 later. You can always cut back on your application; you 21 can't go forward. So, if we submit the current application 22 for planning and development only, that's all we're going to 23 get. If we do the whole thing right now, we can try and get 24 it ready. We have to -- there's some hurdles, primarily 25 right-of-way. 11-14-11 100 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was going to 2 say, right-of-way. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And working with TexDOT, I 4 think we'll have to get ready pretty quick. If TexDOT is 5 going to be a big stumbling block, we will pull back and do 6 the planning only. If not, we'll, you know, proceed with the 7 full grant application. Conceptually, we have some options 8 as to how we try to raise our match portion of it. Dusty, I 9 think -- or if he hasn't already, they are looking at kind of 10 a revenue bond type -- that may not be the right terminology, 11 but there are revenues generated by the project. We are 12 under a fast track -- or I'm under a fast track working with 13 Kendall County Water Improvement District Number 1 in 14 Comfort. They've become a -- we haven't talked to them in 15 about two years, and all of a sudden, I dropped this on them 16 late Thursday, that by the way, this thing's moving real fast 17 all of a sudden. So, we're getting a lot of work with them. 18 Bottom line is, we have to have the application ready by the 19 end of this week. And it's -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whoa. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There's a lot of people in a 22 lot of places -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we have a lot -- we 24 have -- Keller's in the room; I'll turn it over to Keller and 25 Jeannie in a few minutes. As soon as we got back from the 11-14-11 101 1 meeting, Jeannie started spearheading a lot, working with 2 Keller on who's doing what. On Item 24, there's a law firm 3 that we're familiar with, Lloyd Gosselink out of Austin. 4 MS. HARGIS: Brad Castleberry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brad Castleberry, an attorney 6 with them, looking at probably engaging their services. I 7 think Rob is -- is aware of that part of it. I'll let him 8 deal with that in a little bit, trying to get some of the 9 legal -- there's -- you know, here's the -- to show 10 everybody, this is the application. It's -- and this is just 11 the actual -- the application, not all of the forms that go 12 with it as backup, and agreements and tentative things and 13 drafts. It will be about this thick, the application, when 14 we're done. But that's kind of why all this is on the 15 agenda, a little bit of a rush. It is just the application 16 at this point. It's critical that we get the application to 17 the Water Development Board, and then we can kind of step 18 back a little bit. They're going to take 60 days at a 19 minimum to review the application, and we're not committed 20 until -- you know, at this time it's really more of a game 21 plan until really sometime probably about February. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you -- is part of the 23 right-of-way -- are you considering running it down Highway 24 27 in Comfort? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Almost entirely. 11-14-11 102 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Almost entirely? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You need help with TexDOT? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need help with them? 5 (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We're going to be working 7 closely with them in the next couple of months. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of days. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Days and months. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's kind of where it is. 11 The applications, the Items 19, 20, 21, and 22 are all -- and 12 23 are all standard applications that go along with the 13 application. They're -- you know, we can go through them 14 briefly one by one. Do you want to go through them one by 15 one now, or do you want Keller to kind of go through it, or 16 Jeannie to kind of -- or do y'all have some questions? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have one quick 18 question. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On 24, it talks about 21 submitting necessary documents. Now, who is going to talk 22 about those necessary documents? What are they? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We think we have outlined them 24 all on the other ones, but this is on as a catch-all, in case 25 we missed something. And the two that we really have that we 11-14-11 103 1 missed are -- one is the agreement with Lloyd Gosselink, the 2 engagement letter with them, and the other one is the -- and 3 I'd like to get someone to explain this one to me -- the 4 Designated Management Agency Resolution, which is basically a 5 form, as I understand it, that says that Kerr County has the 6 authority to handle a wastewater system. Is that accurate? 7 Keller, why don't you come up here. You're probably going to 8 have to answer the question. Keller Drozdick. 9 MR. DROZDICK: Yeah. Keller Drozdick from Tetra 10 Tech. I've been working here for y'all for a while on the 11 EDAP plan which you mentioned earlier, and just to give y'all 12 an idea, we worked on that for a couple years. That's one 13 funding program. We've been working on planning documents 14 for that. Essentially, what we've done here is pursued a 15 secondary funding source, S.R.F. program, so we're able to 16 reuse all of that planning information. We've got to build 17 the application off of it, which is why we're able to turn 18 this around pretty quick. It should also expedite the 19 planning process under the S.R.F. program. This D.M.A., the 20 Designated Management Authority, is one of several of these 21 small pieces of paperwork you have to get lined up. 22 Essentially, the County's requesting authorization to be 23 formally designated as somebody who can -- there's, like, 24 five verbs in there; construction, operation and so forth. 25 The wastewater system, now, we talked it over with the State 11-14-11 104 1 and indicated that Kerr County has no intent of maintaining 2 and operating a system; that you really just want to build 3 it. The whole idea is Kendall County's going to operate and 4 maintain it. And they said that's fine, but you just need to 5 have that because it also covers the construction portion. 6 So, that's where that particular form comes in. It's not 7 already listed. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So at this point, Commissioner, 9 those are the two other documents that aren't listed 10 specifically. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're -- but I'm not going 13 to guarantee there's not something else that we're going to 14 need, just from a standpoint of submitting the documents -- 15 the application. I think we've got all the ones that the 16 Court needed to approve. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- in this arena, I 18 don't know of anybody more qualified. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: He does a good job. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He does a good job. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. I think the other 22 reason -- we need to make sure we also point out on the water 23 line, the reason it's going to Kendall County is they have 24 capacity. I think that's another thing we do forget a lot of 25 times as this project's been going along. They have 20 11-14-11 105 1 percent of their capacity, is all that's being used, so there 2 is capacity to take this eastern Kerr County development and 3 take it that way. And so the next part where we're at right 4 now, I think out of the meeting that we had last week that 5 was really positive was that the wastewater side of this 6 project can stand alone on its own, and we can continue to 7 move on. We were kind of -- kind of overwhelmed when we 8 heard how early this construction could start on there, so 9 it's doing real well. But the next part's obviously moving 10 into the acquisition and the design, about a year, and then 11 we are -- we're in that point and possibly of looking at 12 construction funding. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason -- this goes 14 back a little bit further. I've been dealing with this quite 15 a few years, and Commissioner Williams was kind of the lead 16 on it. I was kind of aware, but all of a sudden it's kind 17 of -- I've got a little bit more involved in the last 12 18 months. The reason this project scored so highly is the 19 water quality issues in east Kerr County and the septic 20 problems we have over there. So, Center Point and the other 21 -- the smaller subdivisions between Center Point and Comfort, 22 they're on very small lots, and the septic problems -- it's 23 just a huge septic problem. It's a water quality problem 24 going into the Guadalupe River. This is the area, and we 25 ranked number one out of projects statewide when we submitted 11-14-11 106 1 this application. 2 And that's -- we were astounded at that, but it 3 also shows that the -- the importance that the State looks at 4 us helping Kerr County clean up this area. It's kind of like 5 it's just a huge pollution area, but it is an area that is -- 6 it needs to have more of a centralized sewer system to 7 maintain. And as we get more growth, it will -- the problem 8 will just get worse, so it's a -- a very important project, 9 really, for the Center Point area. You know, there's a lot 10 of growth already today just in Center Point. Kind of -- 11 things are happening over there in that community, and this 12 will really take them to the next level of being able to -- 13 you know, from a development standpoint, in that area -- it's 14 so hard to develop any property in Center Point, or down 15 towards Comfort too, because of the -- the 5-acre lot size 16 you have to have. If you got central water or sewer system, 17 it really helps on being able to -- on the density a little 18 bit. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Really, your main focus or 20 your main concern, you need to get right-of-way, is probably 21 the -- the first order of business. If you get right-of-way, 22 you can move forward on the rest of it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If TexDOT will agree to give 25 it up. 11-14-11 107 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I'd say -- I don't 2 know. Keller, probably 90 percent of our right-of-way is in 3 TexDOT right-of-way? There are some private -- 4 MR. DROZDICK: By and large. We had two 5 alternatives. One idea was we use a lot more private 6 easements on the back side of lots. The second alternative 7 was primarily TexDOT right-of-way. And, really, that stretch 8 of 27 from Center Point to Comfort, that's not a problem. 9 That's pretty typical. The right-of-way's clear; there's 10 room for us to build a pipe. Where we have more of an issue 11 is right in the main portion of Center Point, there's two 12 farm roads. Particularly that probably three- or four-block 13 area right about there, it's highly developed. It's hard to 14 find room in the right-of-way, and that right there is really 15 where the hangup's going to be. And these things we have to 16 get resolved as early as possible. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't guess you could put 18 it right down the center of the highway. 19 MR. DROZDICK: I would love to put it down the 20 center of the highway. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TexDOT has pretty much said 22 they don't like that option. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't like that option. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In fact, they said no to that 25 option. 11-14-11 108 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They said absolutely not. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At our last meeting, they had a 3 representative from the San Antonio office who came and 4 introduced herself, saying, "My whole purpose here is to tell 5 you no." So, they're not on board with that. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think the other thing that 7 is really exiting about it is, you know, we were looking at 8 EDAP. That's one of the deals you were having earlier. Now 9 we're looking at the C.W. State Resolving Funds. You got a 10 70/30 grant in there, and so 70/30; you got $14.1 million, 11 which is our offer through that state revolving fund. We got 12 $10 million worth of grant funding there that we potentially 13 could cap at that. That's huge. In today's economy, we got 14 to work out ways of catching that revenue. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about that -- what about 16 the area that used to be an old railroad track? I don't know 17 how many people have actually encumbered what that -- where 18 that old right-of-way existed. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of that is private 20 property. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know it's on private 22 property, but it hasn't had buildings and things. It's 23 probably based on it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be somewhat of a 11-14-11 109 1 clear path that you could go and maybe divert -- you know, 2 move over to the other side of the highway and follow that 3 for a ways till you could drop back in on the other side of 4 Center Point and get it -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good thought. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good thought. The -- and we 7 talked about a couple numbers I want to bring up. I mean, 8 the S.R.F., state revolving funds we're talking about right 9 here in this application is about 14 million. The project's 10 17-plus million. The additional will be under the EDAP 11 grant. We still plan to proceed with the EDAP, but it's 12 going to be a smaller piece, because it's only a 50/50. But 13 the -- one of the pieces that we'll pursue is an area called 14 Westwood, which is right around the Little League fields in 15 Comfort. That's 100 percent, because that area got a 16 nuisance finding. Guy and I will be making another trip, 17 looks like, to Austin very shortly to meet with Department of 18 Health, and we're going to try to get them to reverse their 19 decision on nuisance finding, because based on the State's 20 criteria, there are other areas that should have received the 21 nuisance finding, if we can get that, to get anywhere from -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 100 percent. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to 100 percent. So we can 24 start picking up or using that portion of it for part of it 25 as well. You can use the two grants simultaneously -- or two 11-14-11 110 1 programs simultaneously. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you have talked to 3 TexDOT, evidently, 'cause you got a "no" answer on going down 4 the middle of the highway. What was their -- what was their 5 response on the other portion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They gave us a letter that said 7 maybe. 8 MR. DROZDICK: Well, they stick with standard 9 policy, which they're happy to approve any utility that 10 adheres to their right-of-way guidelines. And we've worked 11 on other TexDOT jobs, and as long as there's room in the 12 right-of-way and you follow their submissions and you space 13 it where you need to space it, they usually don't have a 14 problem. And on 27, there's a lot of empty space between the 15 edge of pavement and the boundaries, so that one's not an 16 issue. We don't foresee any problem with approval of that. 17 Even when we had that meeting back in, I guess, March, the 18 discussion was in the middle of Center Point. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm thinking you could back 20 up as far as maybe somewhere in there along with the new -- 21 maybe not quite that far back -- the new recycle plant, jump 22 across, and that way we would give you -- your elevation 23 would still be flowing downhill, following that old -- the 24 old railroad right-of-way. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. Could pick it up in 11-14-11 111 1 this area right behind the Mini Mart. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, yes, that is -- that 3 is open. I don't know that anything's been built in there. 4 And, again, it is private property, but I'll bet you you 5 could get an easement fairly easy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, we're talking -- one 7 thing. You mentioned about going down the middle of the 8 highway. We can't go down the middle of the highway, but we 9 can go down the middle of our county roads. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's a lot. Center 12 Point is predominantly all county roads. It's really just 13 480, and whatever Government Crossing is. 14 MR. DROZDICK: 1350? I don't remember the number. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And whatever -- that's the only 16 problem. And Keller brought up this morning a meeting that, 17 you know, maybe you're able to bore under the road 18 diagonally; you can hit where you need to go. So, there are 19 options to get there, and it's a relatively small geographic 20 area. It's an important area to figure out how to work right 21 around on 480, but not a huge area. The majority of it is 22 not a real problem, because they're county roads, and those 23 right-of-ways we can do what we want, and then we do the 24 roads as part of the grant. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's a $17 million project. 11-14-11 112 1 It is huge. It is a big, big project. And the other thing 2 that's positive about this is we're dealing with that -- I 3 just want to mention again, the concept of changing the water 4 concept that we were looking at, potentially working with 5 U.G.R.A. and everybody. That's a really interesting concept 6 to move forward. I think that is -- that's going to be a big 7 thing for us down the road to look at, so look forward to 8 working with them on that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another good thing is, 10 there's an existing sewer plant that already can take it, and 11 we don't have to worry about building a plant to go with all 12 this. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. They -- they can, and 15 they want to do it. I talked to them; they say they're ready 16 to go, and they still are offline to -- you know, to be the 17 operator of the facility. There's some issue about CCN's and 18 all that stuff that's way beyond my knowledge level, but that 19 will work out. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question about 21 this law firm. Are they -- are you the guy I need to ask? 22 MR. DROZDICK: No, I'm the engineer. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this 24 law firm. Is it a law firm -- like, they do this specific 25 kind of work? 11-14-11 113 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- the attorney does this 2 specific kind of work. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The attorney? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brad Castleberry. We found 5 him -- or Jeannie Hargis found him when we started having the 6 problems under the EDAP grant on the E.A., and we had one, I 7 think, phone consultation with him, and we invited him to 8 come to the meeting we had in Austin, just because, you know, 9 we didn't want to get -- have another EDAP problem coming 10 down the road. And that, you know, would be why we have the 11 -- the engagement letter here. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how is he -- how is he 13 paid? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He and Tetra Tech will be 15 paid -- and it's estimated that this amount is about $10,000 16 to get the application in. That would be -- become part of 17 the grant, assuming we get it. If we don't get the grant, it 18 would have to come out of our general fund. But it would be 19 a grant. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're going to pay the 21 guy, or -- and then the grant would reimburse the County? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we don't get -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's our money, anyway. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we don't get the grant, 11-14-11 114 1 then -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we need -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- 100 percent cost to the 4 taxpayers? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And the -- and it's 6 estimated we -- you know, we're still working. Keller -- 7 better not say what I think. Keller comes back every time 8 with $6,000 it's going to take from Tetra Tech's standpoint 9 to proceed with this, and probably about 3,000, I'm guessing, 10 with -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You realize how much work 12 they've done in this county in the last 10 years? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought they should do it for 14 3,000. I kept telling him -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About time for a freebie. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. But, anyway -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I would say that the attorney 18 that was there at that meeting last week for the county 19 standpoint, it was well -- money well spent. Because I will 20 tell you that to sit there and talk to the T.W.D. folks and 21 understand that language, there was communication that was 22 very positive. It was done very good. 23 MR. TRAYLOR: I would agree with that. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It was very good money spent, 25 so that's how to get it done. So, they're communicating, so 11-14-11 115 1 that's all -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know how much money? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We guess it to be up to 3,000. 4 We said 10,000 total is our estimate for the engineering and 5 the legal. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just on the application? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dusty's work is free. 8 MR. TRAYLOR: Free till the bond -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He picks it up later. 10 MR. TRAYLOR: There you go. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You -- is our motion going 12 to include every one of these, or do we do them individually? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably individually, 14 just the way they're listed. That way there's a record for 15 the Water Development Board. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner, the engagement letter, 17 I think, needs to be brought back at a later Commissioners 18 Court meeting. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not going to be essential. 21 Already in the application, anyway. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Let me -- I guess I'll 23 start with these, try to get through them pretty quickly. I 24 move that we approve and authorize the County Judge to sign 25 the Application Filing and Authorized Representative 11-14-11 116 1 Resolution concerning the State Revolving Fund. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your motion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my motion. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What number is that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 19. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 19. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated under Agenda Item 19. Question or discussion on 10 that item? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second will be to approve and 16 authorize County Judge to sign same, the Certificate 17 Regarding Lobbying concerning the Clean Water State Revolving 18 Fund. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. I'll second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded under 23 Agenda Item 20 to approve as indicated. Further question or 24 discussion on that motion? All in favor, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 11-14-11 117 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next, I'll make a motion to 6 approve the Application Affidavit concerning the Clean Water 7 State Revolving Fund, and authorize County Judge to sign 8 same. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 11 indicated under Item 21 for approval. Further question or 12 discussion on that motion? All in favor, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And next is Item 22. I'll make 19 a motion to approve the Application Resolution-Certificate of 20 Secretary concerning the Clean Water State Revolving Fund, 21 and authorize County Judge to sign same. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded approving 24 Item 22 on the agenda. Question or discussion on that 25 motion? 11-14-11 118 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, I believe that one is 2 to be signed by the County Clerk. 3 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, one of them is. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 5 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And next, under Item 24, I'll 11 make a motion that we approve and authorize County Judge to 12 sign the Designated Management Agency Resolution which 13 authorizes Kerr County to operate a wastewater plant, or 14 requests authority of Kerr County to operate a wastewater 15 plant. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded under Item 18 24 as indicated. Question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, a question. I don't 20 think -- I don't think I'm reading it exactly the way you 21 said it, but obviously, you read the thing, didn't you? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the -- it's a -- the 23 "other." Here's that resolution. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this where the lawyer is? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. The lawyer would be here, 11-14-11 119 1 but the County Attorney requests we don't do the lawyer. 2 This is the other document that we do need. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Say it -- say the 4 words to me again, please. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Authorize the County Judge to 6 sign the -- the Designated Management Agency Resolution, 7 which is the resolution that requests Kerr County be able to 8 operate a wastewater plant, and it's another document that is 9 needed for the application process. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's Item 24? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 24. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are stretching the 13 words. It's not anywhere near, but okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the -- it's under the 15 necessary documents. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to solve your problem here 17 in a little bit, Buster. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've got an issue with 21 it because the words just don't quite fit, but okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll -- I've got a second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and second. 24 Further question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 11-14-11 120 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do you want 5 to catch 23 now? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 25. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did -- I didn't do 23? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry. I'll make a motion 10 to approve the Texas Water Development Board-Application/ 11 Entity Affirmative Steps Certification and Goals concerning 12 the Clean Water State Revolving Fund. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded under Item 15 23 for approval. Further question or discussion on that 16 item? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Under Item 24, in order that any 19 other documents which are necessary or appropriate or 20 required for a complete application, is it your intent, Mr. 21 Letz, to make a motion to approve submitting any and all 22 other necessary documents as may be required in order to 23 submit a complete application under the Clean Water State 24 Revolving Fund loan application, that those be approved, and 25 I'm authorized to sign the same? 11-14-11 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I'll make that motion. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He sounds a lot like a 3 lawyer, doesn't he? (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 6 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 7 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Does that solve 12 your problem, Buster? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it does. Thank 14 you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What about Item 25 dealing 16 with the EDAP? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe that needs any 18 action on that, did it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Keller. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if we can get back on 22 track. Thank you, Dusty. We appreciate it. 23 MR. TRAYLOR: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 6? 11-14-11 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me find out where we are here. 2 You want to try 26 again, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I said Number 6. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Actually, we've got a 10:40 5 item under Item 27. Consider, discuss, take appropriate 6 action on presentation regarding the burn ban on the Hurt 7 Ranch in west Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This was submitted by Commissioner 10 Oehler and Commissioner Baldwin. Y'all decide who wants to 11 fire out on this one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I put on it there. 13 We'd had -- I had had several conversations with Mr. Hurt 14 about the burn ban, and we -- and maybe -- and hopefully I 15 misunderstood him, but I think his request was that there's 16 not enough grass on his ranch for a fire to burn, as for 17 fuel. So, therefore -- and I think he was saying that we 18 could lift the burn ban for his area, and not for the rest of 19 the area. But let's -- and so I've invited him. Bruce and I 20 talked about it. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He called me too, but it's 22 been a while. And he was -- at the time he called me, was 23 wondering about burning trash in his trash barrel. And -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- anyway -- 11-14-11 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought it was just the 2 best way to handle this thing. And he's a dear friend of 3 ours, and the best way to do it is come before the public and 4 let's iron this thing out. Mr. Hurt? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Hurt? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just give me all of them, 7 Robbie, and I'll pass them down. This is just like mine. 8 MR. HURT: Your Honor and members of the Court, 9 thank you for the phone calls that you've taken from me, and 10 the e-mails, and for allowing the time today. For some 11 background, I'm a -- have been a volunteer fireman for most 12 of 30 years. I'm a member of the Prescribed Burn 13 Association. I've been doing prescribed burns for roughly 15 14 years. I can't remember all the timelines. I probably set 15 in excess of 50 fires, burning different parts of our place. 16 I don't remember when the burn ban first -- you know, for 17 most of my life, I'd never heard of a burn ban until whenever 18 -- however many years ago it was, and so it's been a learning 19 curve for all of us. I've attended the prescribed burn 20 school set under Bill -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Armstrong. 22 MR. HURT: -- Armstrong, the guys out at the Kerr 23 management area. We're actually north of the management 24 area, and my brother adjoins the management area, and then I 25 front on Highway 41. If you want to look, on Page 2 is where 11-14-11 124 1 our place is, the graphics there. Now, what -- I brought 2 this checker board here. If you drive down Highway 41, at 3 any given area, if you just visualize the center right here, 4 you can go down and here's a pasture that may be a mile long, 5 and we all have different grazing -- you know, we're letting 6 pastures rest, we're grazing there. There's different 7 practices going on at any given time. So, going along, and 8 right at this mile right here is just as bare as it can be. 9 There is no grass at all. Right across the street, there may 10 be grass a foot high. That's very dangerous. Right here 11 there's no issue. You go down, and it changes. It's bare 12 over here, safe to burn. Not over here. And you can go -- 13 we go to Rocksprings a lot, and that's the way the entire 14 area is. In the last -- oh, I don't know, roughly 10 years, 15 I've been letting pastures rest, and my place has been what I 16 would call dangerous. I mean, we did a lot of controlled 17 burns within the framework of the burn ban, but we had a lot 18 of fuel on the ground. 19 And y'all -- now, let me also say, there's been a 20 lot of things happen in regard to Bastrop. I went to the 21 Bastrop fire school three years ago, roughly, and the thing 22 that struck me was the massive amounts of fuel that were on 23 the ground in that area. I think it would be safe to say 24 there may have been 10 times more fuel on the ground at that 25 time than there's ever been in Kerr County. Maybe back in 11-14-11 125 1 the 1800's or something. And I -- as a volunteer fireman, 2 you know, we'll go to a wreck, and there's a fire as a 3 secondary incident to the wreck, and, you know, we put the 4 fire out. And if one of those happened at Bastrop when I -- 5 I sat there and I said, "This place is going up in flames. 6 It is just a matter of time that this place explodes," and 7 there was so much fuel on the ground. And, you know, we have 8 a wreck; it starts a fire. There's not much fuel on the 9 ground; we get it out. It burns an acre or less -- 2, 3 10 acres. Over there, you can't get the resources there like 11 that, so there's not an apples-to-apples comparison at all to 12 Kerr County and Bastrop. But, anyway, a few weeks ago, y'all 13 changed the rules that you couldn't -- you had to use a gas 14 cookstove to barbecue. Is that -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not exactly right. We 16 did it where we finally -- we had -- I think it was enforced 17 for a few days where you weren't supposed to cook on -- any 18 kind of outdoor cooking at all, and then we changed it to 19 propane and any other cooking fires. 20 MR. HURT: Okay. All right. Well, as I said, I 21 got my information -- I wouldn't -- I read about it, clicked 22 on Yahoo.com and it popped up what y'all did here. I guess 23 the whole world -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They're good friends of ours at 25 Yahoo. 11-14-11 126 1 MR. HURT: But, anyway, it was my understanding 2 that you could only do a gas cooker. We have an electric 3 one, and I didn't know how many -- a lot of people never even 4 heard of one, and so it was my understanding -- can I use an 5 electric smoker? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course. 7 MR. HURT: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course. 9 MR. HURT: Okay. Second page -- as far as trash, 10 what -- where do we stand today on trash? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Trash barrels, I think, are 12 still banned, aren't they? At the present time. 13 MR. HURT: Okay. Well, if you'll look at the 14 second page here, my daughter did these beautiful graphics. 15 I was allowed to turn the computer on, but my expertise 16 stopped at that point. But where all of these lines 17 intersect on here represents a brush pile that I have, and 18 it's within about 50 yards of where I burn trash. Now, 19 notice the -- the horizontal line across here to the left is 20 .42 miles; to the right is .58 miles. That's how far it is 21 to my property line. Now, at the fire schools, the farthest 22 that anyone has recorded a cinder blowing is three-eighths of 23 a mile. You know, if the fire's -- you know, I was at the 24 Jackson Ranch fire this summer, and we were just being rained 25 on with cinders and grass, you know, this tall. And 11-14-11 127 1 unbelievably, they did not ignite. We stayed there for a 2 long time just thinking any minute they would -- you know, 3 one of them was going to, and it didn't. Well, I have a lot 4 different conditions than what was at Jackson Ranch. And 5 then -- you know, three-eighths of a mile is .375. This is 6 .42. Over here, these other lines represent distances to the 7 closest dwelling, to where I would like to burn a brush pile. 8 And as you can see there, anywhere from -- the closest 9 dwelling besides my house is one mile, and the second closest 10 is -- or not the second; the furthest is 2.3 miles. You see 11 up in the top, Texas 41 is about three-quarters of a mile 12 from where that brush pile is. Now, I've got some other 13 brush piles that I would like to burn, that I need to burn. 14 They are not -- they are -- they're closer to property lines 15 than that is. Also, it's hunting season. One of the things 16 that the hunters like to do is have a campfire. And, you 17 know, we -- that's how we make money on a ranch, and if you 18 can't roast marshmallows -- or it's my understanding that 19 they can't do that at this time. Is that correct? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be considered a cooking 21 fire. 22 MR. HURT: Okay. Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it's contained. 24 MR. HURT: Okay. Well, I'm just -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's my interpretation of 11-14-11 128 1 it, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong. 2 MR. HURT: I may need some clarification on that, 3 which I can do privately. But we -- you know, we have shut 4 down all of that. You know, from a -- from a fireman's 5 standpoint, and a trained -- going to fire school, as well as 6 the prescribed burn schools, I've got other fires that there 7 were many days that I could have gone out and burned a brush 8 pile in the last two -- whenever it was; I can't remember 9 when I talked to y'all last. But it would have been very 10 safe. The conditions were perfect. And, you know, we have 11 done this -- we burned trash at this spot, the same spot for 12 70 years. I've done it for over 30 years with no problems. 13 And that was without -- you know, weather has come a long way 14 since, you know, 70 years ago. Used to, when I had to call 15 New Braunfels National Weather Service to set up a burn, you 16 know, it's cumbersome. They weren't there; they were busy. 17 They had to go get the data for where I was. Now you -- you 18 can click a mouse and get all you want, and so I think it's 19 safer, or that you just got more data to make a wise decision 20 in a burn ban than ever before. And even under those 21 primitive conditions, there was not a -- not a problem. 22 So, you know, I've talked to y'all. I mean, the 23 burn situation is nerve-wracking. It's difficult. We're in 24 a different cycle now where there's just not a "one size fits 25 all" solution. I can -- I can drive down Highway 41, the 10 11-14-11 129 1 miles to my place, and I can tell you five places that I 2 would not set a brush pile right there. And across the 3 fence, I'd say it would be fine. And there -- the size of 4 the fire, I mean, you know, a fire is basically this big, up 5 to -- I've got brush piles that are -- oh, I don't know, 6 probably 60 feet in diameter, maybe more than that. And 7 so -- but you've got -- the size is from small up to that 8 big, is what I'm trying to say. And we need as much 9 flexibility as possible. Now, I know the orders -- the laws 10 and the way it's structured is complicated, and I don't know 11 what -- I don't know what you can do, but I just wanted to 12 make you -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're fixing to hear. 14 MR. HURT: -- aware of that fact. The -- oh. The 15 third -- the third page is Real County -- what do you call it 16 when y'all take the burn ban off? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take the burn ban off. 18 MR. HURT: Rescinded the burn ban. There's -- it 19 was in the Rocksprings paper, and that's what -- I've got it 20 highlighted there for you, that they did have theirs off. 21 And that paper, I think, goes to press, like, Monday or 22 Tuesday of last week. And -- and Real County's taken their 23 burn ban off today, for example. So, I don't know what 24 conditions there are different, but I just wanted to make you 25 aware of it. I don't think I have anything else. 11-14-11 130 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you -- are you proposing any 2 specific action by this Court relative to our existing burn 3 ban? 4 MR. HURT: Well, I don't know what I can do at this 5 time, Your Honor, what the rules allow. What I can't -- you 6 know, your hands are tied. I mean, it's not -- the issue is 7 more than my place, per se. There may not be anybody else 8 here at the time, so I -- I may need to talk to Buster and 9 Bruce about what -- what can you do for myself, as well as 10 some of the neighbors. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the starting point is to get 12 a copy of the court order that -- the last court order that 13 this Court passed, which was a modification and a little bit 14 more general than the one -- the very restrictive one that we 15 passed fairly recently. But that would be a good starting 16 place, and then after you review that and digest it, why, 17 then talk to your Commissioner to see whatever your concerns 18 are. I would think it would be the appropriate way -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think one of the things, 20 too, that there are some -- there are some exemptions under 21 the burn ban order that exempts some things in agriculture. 22 One of those is prescribed burns, and the other one, I 23 believe, is land that was -- that was cleared -- that was 24 cleared with machinery, brush piles and things. There are 25 some of those things that do and are exempt under a burn ban. 11-14-11 131 1 MR. HURT: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you'll read that -- if 3 you'll read the prescribed burn ban order or the outdoor 4 burning order by the State of Texas, it will give you all of 5 that stuff that's exempt. 6 MR. HURT: Okay. Well, I -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Robbie, I think the brush 8 thing, I think that was something Medina County did on its 9 own. I don't think it was part of state law, but the 10 prescribed burns are. I'm much like you. I get very 11 frustrated as well, because I have brush piles I've had for a 12 long time, and I can't burn them, and -- and I think most 13 people on the Court -- members of the Court know, I love to 14 burn, and we burn a lot, but we can't. I think that the 15 only -- the main guidance is, watch the weather. We have a 16 chance of rain tonight. Odds are if we get a -- a reasonable 17 amount of rain out in Precinct 4, I would say check early in 18 the morning, 'cause we'll probably lift it if we get rain. 19 It may be lifted for a day, and people have to plan 20 accordingly, 'cause -- while we still have moisture. I mean, 21 cedar trees are still very volatile, whether -- you know, 22 just period, whether you have grass or not. Doesn't look, by 23 the map, you have a whole lot of cedar on your property, so 24 that's not too big a problem. But, you know, my main 25 guidance is, watch the weather, like you're doing, and then 11-14-11 132 1 if we do get rain, call the -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Call me, 'cause I'm the first 3 one that takes it off, normally. I'm the first one that 4 probably gets chewed on the worst about it, 'cause my area is 5 so big compared to the other areas. I mean, I took it pretty 6 hard from two ladies last time when I took it off for a day 7 and a half or whatever it was, and luckily, nothing happened 8 and people got rid of a lot of brush. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's kind of the way. I 10 mean, unfortunately, we -- you know, we have a more flexible 11 system than probably almost any other county by doing it by 12 precincts. We tried to work with ranchers that are burning 13 best we can. We have a policy I know you're aware of that we 14 can work with NRCS office about doing prescribed burns, and 15 we, you know, do get some criticism, but we don't require 16 people to be a licensed -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Manager. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- licensed burn manager. We 19 dropped the standard a little bit lower. As long as they're 20 convinced that people know what they're doing, I think we try 21 and work with ranchers. But we just -- the other problem is, 22 though, we got a lot of people that are, you know -- I don't 23 know a good way to term -- what term to use. They go out 24 there with a -- not -- you know, a strong north wind and 25 light a brush pile on fire, and that's just -- you know, 11-14-11 133 1 unfortunately, you and I and others get hindered by people 2 that don't know what they're doing. And we can't -- we 3 haven't figured out how to do any kind of a burn ban that 4 allows, you know, brains to be part of the -- of the formula. 5 (Laughter.) 6 MR. HURT: Well, I have the -- the training to burn 7 under a burn ban. There's one catch, is you have to have an 8 insurance policy in order to do that. Now, on the way over 9 here, it came on the news that the Supreme Court is going to 10 hear the health care case about, you know, where people have 11 to buy health insurance, and so possibly that case will 12 affect -- you know, y'all can't force somebody -- or the 13 government can't force somebody to have burn insurance. But, 14 anyway, I do have the training to -- to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Robbie, my biggest 16 problem is the fact that we can't give personal exemptions. 17 MR. HURT: I understand. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the real problem. We 19 can't -- we can't just say, "Okay, we know that you're not 20 going to do any harm, and you're going to do what's right," 21 and not do it for everybody. And that's where the real 22 fallacy is. 23 MR. HURT: Well, I understand. But keep in mind 24 that -- I mean, I don't understand where the private property 25 rights come in. 11-14-11 134 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 MR. HURT: But I know, you know, we could burn all 3 we wanted up until about 10 years ago, and now it's heavily 4 regulated. And I have questions that there's not a right 5 being taken away. And there's -- you know, there is damage 6 that takes place. I mean, I can -- the predators can hide in 7 the brush piles and so forth and kill fawns, kill turkeys, on 8 and on. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- I see it as it's an 10 absolute shame that the government has to control a person 11 functioning on his own property. That's an absolute shame, 12 but it's an absolute must these days, where these folks come 13 in and buy their 5-acre ranch and burn down the all the 14 neighbor's property. So I don't know of another way to deal 15 with it other than through the burn ban. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with you. I would -- 17 nobody hates this worse than I do. You know, I've lived on a 18 ranch all my life, and I just despise that. But it's -- 19 unfortunately, I'm sitting here, and we are -- we're mandated 20 to enforce the law. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 22 MR. HURT: Okay, thank y'all. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Mr. Hurt. Let's get 24 rid of our one last timed item before we have to recess for 25 lunch. Our 11 o'clock timed item; consider, discuss, and 11-14-11 135 1 take appropriate action on request by Hill Country Dispute 2 Resolution Center to renew contract with Kerr County to 3 provide mediation services in Kerr County, and for funding. 4 Mr. Reaves. 5 MR. REAVES: Thank you, Judge Tinley, 6 Commissioners. It's my pleasure to report that we had a lot 7 of growth from '09 to '010, thanks to our unpaid volunteer 8 mediators. We've got dozens of them that just do outstanding 9 work, into the night when necessary. We jumped up from 153 10 cases to 177. You know, we cover now nine counties in the 11 hill country with the addition of Edwards, but Kerr County is 12 our biggest customer. We did 75 cases for Kerr County in 13 '10, and I'm glad to report that 85 percent of those settled. 14 To give you an idea of the kind of disputes that are handled, 15 we had some 46 were family law cases, and some 19 were Child 16 Protective Service cases, and the next busiest category were 17 business and real estate. So, we've been fortunate to have 18 the backing of the Kerr County Commissioners Court since 19 2002, and we respectfully request that we have the 20 opportunity to continue that as our nonprofit corporation. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You've looked -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got to tell you, the way I 23 look at it is that through your organization, it is well 24 worth our money. It's a good investment for us to invest in 25 you to unclog the court systems and the courtrooms. That's 11-14-11 136 1 the way I see it. 2 MR. REAVES: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm -- I don't know what 4 we give you as far as funding is concerned. 5 MR. REAVES: That's -- that's a huge benefit of 6 mediation. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 MR. REAVES: And maybe even more important may be 9 the fact the that when people reach their own agreement, 10 it'll stand the test of time better than something that Judge 11 Tinley or someone else has to impose. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You can't trust these 13 lawyers, anyway. How much -- how much do we fund them? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 14,000 is what they're requesting. 15 MR. REAVES: And it's from money collected from the 16 A.D.R. portion of the filing fees. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Which gets paid by lawyers. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Paid by lawyers. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You reviewed the contract? 22 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. It's the same agreement as 23 last year, just with the dates updated. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 11-14-11 137 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 2 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Quickly, 7 Item 6. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve the appointment of additional deputy constable for 9 Precinct 1 in Kerr County. Constable Lavender? 10 MR. LAVENDER: Good morning, gentlemen. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 12 MR. LAVENDER: As you know, the statute requires 13 that I come to you and ask for permission to take on an 14 additional deputy's position, so that's what this is about. 15 So that you will know, we -- I will assign that deputy for 16 environmental enforcement. He will do environmental law 17 enforcement. The real win-win for the county is that 18 previously, some of our efforts to do several enforcements, 19 if they didn't comply, we had to go to criminal enforcement. 20 With the addition of Reagan Givens here that I anticipate 21 being able to bring into that position in Ray's office, we'll 22 have an officer who can do the civil enforcement, and if it 23 transitions to a criminal need, there's no need to 24 reinvestigate. And that was one of the problems that we had 25 before, was you had to have a peace officer make the 11-14-11 138 1 investigation if some action changed from civil to criminal. 2 So, there'll be no budget impact, since last time we 3 approved -- or you approved that position to be refilled for 4 the resignation out of Ray's office. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item. Further question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment to make. I 10 remember when Reagan was born, and watched him grow up 11 through the years. 12 MR. LAVENDER: A lot of watching. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, no kidding. It went 14 like that. But it just proves the fact that if you work hard 15 and you eat your Post Toasties and everything, you can grow 16 up and be a part of Kerr County. 17 MR. GIVENS: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What an honor. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is kind of amazing, isn't 20 it, knowing where the roots are in that family. 21 MR. LAVENDER: If we -- if you get a positive vote, 22 then we're planning to offer the law enforcement deputy 23 position to Reagan. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Outstanding. 11-14-11 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 2 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 Congratulations. We'll be in recess till 1:30. 8 (Recess taken from 12:02 p.m. to 1:34 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 11 we might, from our lunch recess. Let's go back and kind of 12 fill in the gaps here. Let's go to Item 8; to consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action to review the 2011-2012 14 Kerr County budget. Commissioner Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I had a 16 constituent come to me a couple of weeks ago, and got ahold 17 of our budget and wanted to look at the salaries of the 18 county employees. And so he takes it and comes back more 19 confused than he was when he took it. And being as he's from 20 my precinct, I can call him an idiot if I want to. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But you didn't do that? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did not do that, and I 23 won't in here either, -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly not. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- just for the record. But 11-14-11 140 1 I said it's just -- it's as simple as the paint on your face, 2 whatever that means. And you take -- you take last year's 3 salary and you add 4 percent to that salary, and you get the 4 new number. It's that simple. You would think that, and I 5 thought that, and a lot of people in the courthouse thought 6 that, but that's not true. So, I felt like maybe some of 7 y'all -- I mean, I know all y'all are real smart guys and 8 everything, but I thought maybe some of y'all kind of saw it 9 like I did, and we couldn't figure it out. And I got some 10 really smart people to take a look at it, and they couldn't 11 figure it out either. The numbers just did not add up. 12 So -- and I want y'all to know that I am not set out here to 13 blindside the Auditor in any way, so I wrote her a letter 14 last week and selected a couple of salaries out of the budget 15 and sent it to her, and then sat down with it and visited 16 with her out here in the hallway. Y'all may have heard all 17 that screaming going on about Wednesday evening; it was her. 18 And she has -- she took -- took my request, and gone and 19 combed through the budget and figured it out for us. 20 One thing there is longevity. Some people get -- 21 they get longevity, and some people -- it starts, you know, 22 at different times of the year, so they may be paid three 23 months at a certain salary and so forth. Well, we tried to 24 get that -- tried to figure that out, and these numbers 25 didn't work out either. And so, finally, I think she spent a 11-14-11 141 1 couple of sleepless nights and figured it out. There was the 2 no-longer exercise program that we provided employees. There 3 was some employees that used that exercise program one time, 4 and there was a couple that used it a month or so, or that 5 kind of thing. So, those numbers skewed everything that we 6 were trying to see, and I think -- did we decide that that 7 was a -- that was the whole thing. So, she came by and 8 explained that to me, and I'm very happy with that 9 explanation. We no longer use that program, so next year it 10 should be fairly easy to work out. 11 Now, that was -- that was a half. That was a half 12 of my issues. There was another issue that I wanted to bring 13 up, and I've asked her to explain in here. And I understand 14 that she's probably explained to a couple of you guys, but 15 has not to me yet, and that is the -- in her budget, there is 16 a new line item with $3,000 in it, and it's for -- how is it 17 worded? Work at the airport, or airport work or something 18 like that. And along with that $3,000 is a court order from 19 the District Judges. They ordered the 3,000 to be added to 20 her salary. And then I've asked her to come and explain 21 that, how that works, and why -- and one of my questions is, 22 what do you do at the airport? Do you audit the airport? 23 And what was the other question? 24 MS. HARGIS: What kind of work, and do you audit 25 the airport? 11-14-11 142 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. What kind of work is 2 it, and do you audit the airport? So, would you explain to 3 us that, and -- 4 MS. HARGIS: A year ago, the County took over the 5 responsibility of the contract with the airport. And I'm 6 probably responsible, and I think the City probably holds me 7 responsible, for getting Commissioner Williams and Letz to -- 8 to put in a contract, which immediately saved us $150,000. 9 In that contract, it calls for so much accounting and -- and 10 so forth. Actually, it's about $7,900 for accounting and 11 H.R. and things of that nature. On the -- I'm the only one 12 that attends the meeting from here that's a staff person. I 13 did attend for almost nine months before I was even asked to, 14 but I do have to go every -- every meeting. I present 15 financial statements, and -- to them every month, and I help 16 them with their budget. And this year, I've been assigned to 17 be on a special committee that meets on a quarterly basis, so 18 that there'll be additional responsibilities or additional 19 reports that have to be presented to them. So, I had 20 initially asked for an increase last year, and turned it down 21 because nobody else got anything and I didn't think it was 22 right. But now that I have to go out there two and three 23 times a month, you know, on my own time and gas -- and it 24 does take a lot of time. In the month of August and 25 September, I probably spent at least 20 hours a week with the 11-14-11 143 1 Airport Manager, the Airport Board, the City or someone, and 2 one week I spent 40 hours. And so it's taken up a lot of my 3 time personally to go through the different problems that 4 they're having, work through the different contractual 5 obligations that they have. And it's -- to me, it's a 6 liability on me, because I'm answering questions and taking 7 on responsibilities for a lot of their financials, which is 8 the gist of a lot of the arguments that come between the City 9 and the airport. So, that puts me at a really difficult 10 position, but that's why I asked for it. And I justified 11 that with the judges, and they agreed to give me the $3,000. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so, do you audit the 13 airport? 14 MS. HARGIS: We -- do we audit it? We'll pre-audit 15 it, but I have to take care of the annual audit that they do 16 have separately, because I requested a separate external 17 audit for them, which we will prepare this year. Last year I 18 worked as a liaison between the external auditor and the 19 City, because the City didn't want to work with the external 20 auditor, and we prepared financials for them. It's a totally 21 separate document, totally separate audit. And the reason 22 for that is that that audit is integrated into both the 23 County and the City's audit, and every year it was late. And 24 every year that it was late, our auditors couldn't complete 25 our audit, which made us late. So, in order to facilitate 11-14-11 144 1 that problem for both entities, they have their own audit. 2 It's supposed to be done no later than January so that both 3 of ours are not late. So, that's -- that's an additional -- 4 we will do some internal auditing on it, because most of it's 5 coming through us. The bills, I'm pretty much auditing those 6 as they come in. They still have capital projects out there. 7 They still have grant money out there that we have to account 8 for. And there's -- it's a totally different entity. I 9 mean, I think you could ask Jonathan and Guy; it's not -- 10 it's not something that was here when I got here. It's not a 11 responsibility that was here when I got here. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do -- you know, we have a 13 contract with the airport folks for a bunch of different 14 things, screwing light bulbs and whatever else, cut grass and 15 those kinds of things. Is this one of those issues that we 16 have that's covered in that agreement? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it is. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the amount has -- there's 20 not a dollar figure in our management contract, but the 21 services are included. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so -- 23 MS. HARGIS: It's a pass-through. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so, you know, what I'm 25 hearing, then, is that you're getting paid there, and then 11-14-11 145 1 you're getting paid up here for the same service, for the 2 same work. No? 3 MS. HARGIS: No. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The management -- we do the 5 management contract different than the City did it. We -- 6 the City had a setup where they said it was going to cost 7 $250,000 to operate the airport. They billed us based on 8 that, whether they spent the money or not. We only bill for 9 what we actually spend. So, I would -- I'm presuming that 10 the $3,000 is being allocated to the management contract as 11 an expenditure, so the City will pay half of that going 12 forward, I'm guessing. I don't know. Is that right? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But it's a -- that's 15 just the way -- we don't charge the City -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me what he just said. 17 MS. HARGIS: The management contract is $158,000, 18 and that management contract, last year we paid the whole 19 thing, 158,000. We paid for the two employees, and we also 20 paid for our property insurance and our liability insurance, 21 and there was a little bit of funds left, because the -- we 22 didn't have two employees the full year. The contract is 23 exactly the same this year. It does call for $7,900 for the 24 accounting, and -- and so that $3,000 will be billed to the 25 airport. They will pay that to the County for my services 11-14-11 146 1 for attending those meetings and working. The court reporter 2 also gets that. The court reporter's been getting it for two 3 years. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The $3,000 that the District 5 Judges ordered for your supplemental salary will be paid by 6 the City? 7 MS. HARGIS: Be paid by the airport out of their 8 funds that are paid by both the City and the County, and they 9 also have their own revenue. The hundred -- the 110 from 10 each of us is not sufficient to cover their budget. They 11 also have revenue coming in, and with that revenue and what 12 they get from the City and the County is how they pay their 13 bills. And so most of the 158,000 comes out of their own 14 revenue. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just -- you know, I 16 think that -- I think, you know, like, the 4 percent salary 17 increase that we gave you should cover these extra things. I 18 mean, I don't see them as extra. I see it as part of your 19 job, I guess. And if it's not part of your job, maybe you 20 shouldn't do it, is my opinion, to cover those things like 21 going out to the airport. I'm not sure what you do out 22 there. I heard what you said, but I'm still not sure what 23 you do out there. And if it's not auditing, I don't -- I 24 don't get it at all. I think that the -- I think two things. 25 I think that the airport is beginning to put a burr under my 11-14-11 147 1 saddle a little bit. And number two, you know, I feel like 2 that we gave you a 4 percent salary increase, and that makes 3 me think, you know, that the District Judges look at us like, 4 "Well, you bunch of dummies, y'all don't understand anything. 5 We got to give her some more." And I dislike that very much. 6 And so that's all. I just said my piece, and I appreciate 7 you coming up and telling me things that I didn't know. 8 Thank you. That's all I have on that, Judge. Thank you for 9 giving me the opportunity to do it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything on that? 11 Okay. Let's go to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate action on correspondence received from Full 13 Circle Services, Inc., offering services to recover any 14 uncashed checks. I put this on the agenda. I received it, 15 and I don't know whether we've got a need for this or not, or 16 whether we like it or don't like it. This may be something 17 that the County Attorney, who's in a hearing upstairs, would 18 like to address, but essentially they just take a very small 19 piece of collecting that which we ain't got. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me what it is. I see a 21 list every year of unclaimed moneys or something like that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what else? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They -- whatever they obtain for us, 25 they take 12 percent off the top. And apparently it's money 11-14-11 148 1 that we don't receive now. They've obviously already 2 identified over 5,500 worth, which, of course, they don't 3 want to tell us where it is 'cause we'll go get it ourselves. 4 But -- 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, we did get an unclaimed property 6 report from the Controller's office. And each office that 7 had an interest in that particular -- has already applied for 8 it. So, I would imagine that we have already gotten most of 9 that back. My office applied for some. Clerk's office 10 applied for some, the Treasurer's office. So, we just need 11 to check the unclaimed property list and use our own people 12 to get the money back, 'cause they -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 14 MS. HARGIS: -- they send you the form. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think there's a need for 16 it? 17 MS. HARGIS: No. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These people are from 19 Oklahoma. Are you kidding? Bunch of foreigners. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything on that? 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 18; to 23 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve Advance 24 Funding Agreement with Texas Department of Transportation on 25 the Cade Loop Bridge; authorize County Judge to sign same. 11-14-11 149 1 This is the -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mike send that to you? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think I've got it here 4 somewhere. What we did not have was the resolution, and I 5 still don't think we have a resolution. I think they're just 6 looking for a court order. But I do have the advance funding 7 agreement. You may want to wait until the County Attorney 8 gets back from upstairs. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea, 10 till he gets back. And then -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- I have some other deals on 13 that, but not necessarily totally -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, remind me to come back to it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, Item 28; consider, 17 discuss, take appropriate action to approve Kerr County 18 Retiree Health Plan -- Health Care Plan Actuarial Valuation 19 Report as of January 1, 2011. Ms. Hargis? 20 MS. HARGIS: I think I put a copy of this in all of 21 your boxes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yep. I read the thing, too, 23 believe it or not. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Clear as mud, right? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, yeah, if you can see 11-14-11 150 1 through mud. 2 MS. HARGIS: The most important page that -- if you 3 can find B-2, it's Exhibit B-2, which would be this page. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the page number? 5 MS. HARGIS: It doesn't have a page number; just 6 says B-2 down in the bottom left-hand -- top side corner, 7 where one would normally look for it. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I read this thing. I 10 really don't know any more than I did before I read it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hard time sleeping one night? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I got up early one 13 morning. 14 MS. HARGIS: The way this is done is they take the 15 entire population of the county, they take the actuarial ages 16 and deaths and all of that, and throw it in a pot and come 17 out with what our liability would be for the next two years. 18 This is done every two years. As you recall, the last time 19 we did it was in '09, and this is for '11. The good news is, 20 you have three columns in this B-2, and if you'll look at the 21 fiscal year beginning 2008, our present value of future 22 benefits -- in other words, what it would cost me today to 23 fund this plan 100 percent -- was $4,778,879. If you go to 24 Column 1, in 2010, that number has been reduced to $963,749. 25 The reason for this is what we did with -- with our 11-14-11 151 1 health insurance plan, by saying if you're over 65, you know, 2 and you're not an active employee and you want to be on the 3 plan, you can be on the plan, but you have to pay 100 4 percent. Sixty to 65, you can join our plan, but you got to 5 pay 100 percent. This is really tremendous in the overall of 6 our financial statements, because of the fact that GASB is 7 going to make us put our pension liabilities on our balance 8 sheet starting next year. So, that is really going to make 9 us look like we're really a whole lot more solid than a lot 10 of cities and counties out there today who don't have this 11 particular -- who haven't tightened up the reins. And so 12 you're to be commended for taking a hard look at the health 13 insurance and setting it up this way. This number will 14 probably decrease as people leave the system, and don't 15 either get on the insurance, or -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Or die. 17 MS. HARGIS: -- or pass away. So, I would like for 18 this number probably to go down in half -- that's what the 19 actuarial told me -- by the next time we do it, because we 20 have a lot of people who are over 65 that are still active 21 employees, but they may or may not -- and even if they do 22 come on our plan, they have to pay 100 percent, so that makes 23 a huge difference. And so that's -- that's made our 24 financial statements look a lot stronger to the bond market 25 and everyone else. We never really know what they do with 11-14-11 152 1 these numbers, but, you know, it's kind of like the City of 2 Houston. They owe more to the firefighters and the police 3 department than they have assets in the city of Houston. So, 4 we're not in that position, so that's great. So, I thought 5 this is the one thing that's really good about this report. 6 This is included, and will be included in our audit. 7 Unfortunately, this is one of those things we have to do 8 under the GASB rules every two years, so -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Our unfunded liability is less than 10 20 percent of what it was two years ago. 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm, so that's great. Great news. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now it makes sense to me. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't you figure that out? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you up on this stuff? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And you need a motion approving this 16 report? 17 MS. HARGIS: Please. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to 21 approve the Kerr County Retiree Health Care Plan Actuarial 22 Valuation Report as of January 1, 2011. Question or 23 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-14-11 153 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 29; to 4 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2012 5 resolution for the Indigent Defense Grant Program; authorize 6 the County Judge to sign same. Ms. Hargis? 7 MS. HARGIS: We have applied for this grant again 8 this year. It's going to be about $29,000. We do need this 9 resolution to finish our application. So, it's not a lot of 10 money, but it does help defer some of our cost. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Application is due in tomorrow, I 12 believe? 13 MS. HARGIS: That's correct, so I need the 14 resolution today. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval; authorize County 16 Judge to sign same. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 19 the resolution and authorize County Judge to sign same. Any 20 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 11-14-11 154 1 Item 30; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 2 accept the audit report for the audit of the Human Resources 3 Department. Ms. Mabry? 4 MS. MABRY: I provided the audit report in your 5 backup, and all I need you guys to do is to accept the 6 report. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we accept the report. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 32; consider, 16 discuss, and take appropriate action to cast Kerr County's 17 votes for the Kerr Central Appraisal District Board of 18 Directors 2012 to 2013, terms. I put this on the agenda in 19 response to communication back and forth with the Appraisal 20 District, and we indicated an intention earlier to cast -- 21 what, 1,001 for Charles Lewis? Have you had an opportunity 22 to talk to him? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have not, but I'm pretty 24 sure -- I talked to him out -- you know, I've not talked to 25 him since the last meeting, but I think he's still willing to 11-14-11 155 1 serve. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I guess if that's still intact, 3 we need to figure out what we're going to do with the other 4 259 or something. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 249. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought I read divide them 7 between school -- the small school districts. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, divide them amongst the 9 small schools. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Medina and Hunt? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, Hunt and Ingram. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Hunt and Ingram. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Center Point. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: In proportion to the ratio of their 15 existing votes? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we were just going to 17 cast our votes to that group so that group could get an 18 appointee. They have to work among themselves to come up 19 with a name. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So those votes will be cast in a 22 manner that, collectively, those entities agree upon. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the way I see it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if they can't collectively 25 agree, then it's not cast for anybody. 11-14-11 156 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Surely they can. Surely they 2 will. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, then, the motion would be that 4 1,001 would be cast -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For Charles Lewis. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for Charles Lewis. And the 7 balance of -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 259. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of 259 would be cast in a manner 10 as determined collectively by the following entities: City 11 of Ingram, Center Point Independent School District, Comfort 12 Independent School District, Divide Independent School 13 District, Harper Independent School District, Hunt 14 Independent School District, Ingram Independent School 15 District, and Medina Independent School District. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, I'd be curious to see 21 what those numbers are. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, you got nine of them. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three here and one there. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, with all of those 25 together -- all of their collective group together, plus the 11-14-11 157 1 259, they should be able to cast all the votes for one 2 member. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's five members? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, five, I believe. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 6 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Commissioner 11 Baldwin, are you ready? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Man, that is the moment I've 13 been waiting on. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 33; consider, discuss, take 15 appropriate action to select a date for the annual Kerr 16 County Christmas party. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Not your date. Not your date. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not my date. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, a date. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've had several questions 22 about this from people. I'm glad you're -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no, no, no. Do you 24 really? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I don't have questions. I 11-14-11 158 1 have been asked, when are we going to do the party? I said, 2 "It's Baldwin." 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, 4 we're going to recommend that we do it on December the 22nd, 5 which is a Thursday, I think. And then Friday is the 23rd. 6 Happens every year like that; I don't know how that 7 happens -- works, but -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Really? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it all kind of hinges on 10 if Commissioner Oehler -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm glad you're setting that 12 date for this. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we can change it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. No, the date's -- that's 15 wonderful. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the date okay? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's one of the dates that 18 we'd already picked. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause you're our master 20 chef. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, we're going to 22 have a little different deal this year. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to have a kind of 25 chili -- Mexican-type Christmas instead of barbecue or 11-14-11 159 1 something like that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's cool. We can all 3 dress up. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. And donations for that 5 event should be given to Jody, because there will be some 6 expenses in part of that. But, anyway, the date -- the 22nd 7 is fine. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Venison chili? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's at noon? That will be at 12 noon? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be -- I guess at what 14 we -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 11:30? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 11:30 to 1:00 or 1:30, 17 something like that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Something like that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care what the times 21 are. We start at 11:30, and then whenever we get sober 22 enough to drive, that's when we leave. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was Julius' days, 24 remember? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right, we don't 11-14-11 160 1 do that any more. December the 22nd. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And we have a second. Any further 8 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge, for that. 15 That's great stuff. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Where's Mr. Hurt when you need him 17 for Item 34? Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 18 implementation of the burn ban. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that 90-day period up? Is 20 that why we're doing it? I move we implement the burn ban 21 for 90 days. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 11-14-11 161 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 35; consider, 5 discuss, take appropriate action to approve contracts with 6 Center Point V.F.D., Tierra Linda V.F.D., Elm Pass V.F.D., 7 Comfort V.F.D.; allow County Judge to sign same. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many contracts have you 13 still got -- have in your possession? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I don't know how many 15 total we've gotten in. This might be the first batch. 16 Aren't they? 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: This is the first batch that's come 18 in. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I hadn't heard. I don't 20 remember doing anyone's prior to this. So, the rest of them 21 need to get them in here. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Other question or discussion? All 23 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-14-11 162 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to 3 Item 37; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 4 authorize the Auditor to draft a purchasing order policy 5 outlining the requirements that the external auditors have 6 requested. Consider authorizing Auditor to draft purchasing 7 policy for review and approval. You say "requested." 8 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's probably a polite term, isn't 10 it? 11 MS. HARGIS: I basically am requesting permission, 12 because I'm not a policy writer, so I'm asking for two things 13 here. The first one we're going to look at sort of together. 14 When we set up our software system, we set some internal 15 controls in the software, but that seemed to work okay for 16 the auditors the first year and the second year, but this 17 year they didn't like that, because some of our folks, they 18 may -- either they're not signing the original invoice, which 19 would be attached to here, like on the back, or they are 20 initialing it. They can't read the initials. So, we have 21 come up with -- you can see on the second page here, this is 22 an invoice, and this is actually coming from Ray's office. 23 Ray designed this -- this stamp the first year he was here, 24 and he puts this on all of his invoices. But then we get 25 receipts like the one on the third page that don't have 11-14-11 163 1 anybody's signature on them, and then you get -- you get an 2 invoice where down here it says, "Approved for purchase," and 3 the department head doesn't sign it, but they tell me they 4 signed the invoice. And the auditor says, "I don't care if 5 they signed the invoice; I want the purchase order signed." 6 So, we need -- we've never really sat down and 7 said, "Thou shalt do this, this, this." I've always accepted 8 if you sign -- sign on the invoice, initial it and date it, 9 that that was okay. But we've gotten a little bit lax. A 10 lot of times -- for instance, let me give you one of the 11 things they didn't like. The judges sign the court order for 12 all the attorneys. Then we put a purchase order on top of 13 it. They want me to sign all those purchase orders, even 14 though the judges have them stamped on the back. So, I'm 15 going to end up signing a lot of purchase orders on top of 16 the invoices, because I can't take it back to you guys, and I 17 may not be able to take it back to the judges. But if the 18 department heads and everyone else has agreed, a simple 19 guide -- and, I mean, this is a one-page deal that will say 20 when you do your purchase order, here's a stamp. We're going 21 to order the stamps. Stamp your invoices, sign them. 22 The other thing is, we have a lot of clerks signing 23 and approving invoices. Can't do that. The department heads 24 need to be approving these invoices, because I could have a 25 clerk buying all kinds of stuff. And a lot of them do look 11-14-11 164 1 at them, but there's no way for us to know that. And the 2 question that they ask me is, "How do you know they're not 3 buying what they want to buy and then approving it, if the 4 elected official is not looking at it?" So I'm asking 5 permission to write up kind of a one-page document, and then 6 let y'all look at it and decide what you want to do with it. 7 The second half of it would be that -- the question -- and 8 the reason for this is the auditors said to me, "Do you have 9 a policy in place?" And it was a little embarrassing to say, 10 "No, I don't have a policy in place." So, at least we need a 11 policy in place, how we sign our invoices. Even though I've 12 told everybody there's not a policy; I can't mandatorily make 13 them do any of it. 14 The -- the system of internal control and -- and 15 the new reports that they're doing are more important now 16 than they've ever been in -- in the financial statements, 17 because when you sue an auditor, if they've checked your 18 internal control and they have told you that you have gaps in 19 it, then they can get out of any kind of lawsuit that they 20 might have, or you might have against them. So, it's all 21 legally driven. I don't know why they're picking on us this 22 year, but I'm telling you, we probably pulled more invoices, 23 and there were signatures on some of them, but they -- they 24 said to me, well, sign the first page. Well, I'm not the 25 one. I don't care if you sign it. We want it -- they don't, 11-14-11 165 1 because they have to get our audit done in such a short 2 period of time, so they want us to do it for them. And so I 3 try to give them manuals and everything that we can, but this 4 is where we fell short this year. And I'm concerned they're 5 going to write us up for it, because there's a lot of elected 6 officials that didn't sign their invoices. Some of them 7 barely initialed them down in the corner, and they didn't 8 date it. They need to be signed and dated that you've looked 9 at them. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Auditor, who is lazy? 11 Who is it that was lazy? I missed that. 12 MS. HARGIS: The auditors. 13 MS. UECKER: How much do we pay them? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ours or the others? 15 MS. HARGIS: Ours. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your office? 17 MS. HARGIS: No, no, the external. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 MS. HARGIS: I don't -- I'm using that term 20 facetiously. They have to look at two -- 300 or 400 of these 21 invoices. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 MS. HARGIS: And so when they pick them, if 24 they're -- if they're signed properly, dated properly, the 25 whole system moves a lot quicker. And -- 11-14-11 166 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure you're on top of 2 this thing, but I wanted to recommend -- suggest that I bet 3 TAC would be able to provide you with some kind of suggested 4 document that -- or policy, county policy. 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm sure they will, but I need 6 to specifically outline our software requirements within 7 that, because some people don't -- some people don't print a 8 purchase order and put it on top of theirs like we do. you 9 know, our software has -- every county uses -- most of the 10 counties use separate software. It's amazing how many 11 systems are out there. So, I will contact TAC to see if they 12 can help, but mostly they'll have a purchasing policy, which 13 is a full-blown document that I would really like for us to 14 have, which we don't have, on how you do bidding, how you go 15 about, you know, working with different co-ops and things, 16 because I get a lot of questions on that. I wrote one the 17 first year I was here, and we weren't really ready for it 18 yet, and -- and y'all didn't really want to approve it. But 19 I'd like to draft these documents, have y'all have a chance 20 to look at them. And within the next 90 days, you know, we 21 can come up with something. If you don't want to do a 22 full-blown purchasing policy, that's fine, but we've got to 23 do something to make sure that consistently everybody signs 24 their documents, because I'm getting, "I don't have to sign 25 them; I'm not going to sign them." That's not going to work 11-14-11 167 1 where the auditors are concerned. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All we really need, though, we 3 need a stamp. I'm probably guilty of this. I think Jody 4 hands them to me; I just write on top, "J. Letz - OK," and 5 date it, saying this is okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: It's okay. And then -- but what's 7 going to happen is that I'm going to end up signing the P.O. 8 that she does on top of it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there supposed to be a P.O.? 10 MS. HARGIS: The system automatically prints it and 11 puts it on top. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just see a bill. 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: But it doesn't print it till you 14 input it. I can't input it till you approve it. 15 MS. HARGIS: So, it would mean that -- you guys are 16 not here enough for that. And so one -- if you just sign 17 your invoices, then I -- then I'll sign the top copy that you 18 approved it. But I can't do it for everybody. So, I need -- 19 I need -- and there are departments that have clerks that 20 sign and approve, and that's the whole intent of this system 21 was to have someone input them at a lower level, which is 22 what the textbook says. Someone else at a higher level that 23 signs off on them, and as far as our external auditors are 24 concerned, that needs to be the elected official and/or the 25 department head. I know that's a pain, but that's what needs 11-14-11 168 1 to be done. Nobody likes paying bills. It's very boring, 2 takes up a lot of time. But if we just get used to doing it 3 right -- everybody was doing it real well the first year, and 4 I think we've just gotten lax. But we also have a lot of new 5 people, and so it would be nice if we just had a simple 6 one-step process. You know, here's the one-step process, and 7 if everybody would sign off on it. It doesn't sound like 8 it's that important, and it's something that you really don't 9 want to talk about, but if we get dinged for not having good 10 internal control, that's a problem for the bonds. So -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty, how do you do it in 12 your department? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and our department's one 14 that they kind of complained about. My issue -- and what I 15 will say right off is that when the invoices come in, of 16 course, there are deadlines to get the bills over to her so I 17 can get them paid on time. Otherwise, we end up with late 18 fees, as you all know. And so if I'm not there, normally I 19 initial all of them. I will initial every invoice that comes 20 in, and then we send it over. I have not dated them. We 21 just code them. Nancy puts a code on there, and I initial. 22 But if I'm not there that afternoon, and it's close to the 23 deadline, she will use my stamp. You know, I'll know about 24 it, but she'll use it. And my only issue with all of this 25 is, that's the first -- you know, checks and balance on 11-14-11 169 1 things. 2 Then it comes over to the Auditor's office, and I 3 think we have a second checks and balance there. 'Cause I've 4 gotten a lot of calls from Jeannie or her staff about things, 5 and then it comes to y'all for all the bills to be approved. 6 We've got three checks and balances in place. And, you know, 7 this -- if you've got to go through -- and I'll be honest; my 8 secretary enters every one of these in the purchase ordering 9 system, and it's the biggest pain that's ever been created by 10 this county as far as trying to enter stuff that I don't 11 think is that necessary. Because it's not that simple as it 12 used to -- was told to me to be entered, and it does take a 13 lot of time to get these into it. And then it prints out a 14 cover sheet that I just heard that some agencies use, some 15 don't. You know, why are we even creating this if we don't 16 have to? I agree with her, there probably needs to be a good 17 set policy and we need to look at it, but it needs to be 18 looked at by everybody, every department head, because it 19 does affect what date we have to turn them in. 20 I think you have three sets of checks and balances 21 in it. I haven't seen any issues. You know, I've worked 22 cases in the last 30 years or whatever with this county on 23 embezzlement and different things in the county, but I have 24 never seen a case in all this time where it's been 25 unauthorized expenditures, where an invoice was turned in and 11-14-11 170 1 shouldn't have been paid or whatever. I don't see that as 2 being our issue. I don't -- it's going to cause some, 3 because a lot of my bills come up instantly. You just don't 4 know what's going to happen, okay? It may be an outside 5 medical bill that we don't get for three months, and then 6 it's, you know, a day before the cutoff, and then everybody's 7 hollering and you get it late. It may be a flat tire that's 8 got to be fixed right then. We keep an internal set of 9 purchase orders in regular purchase order books that Nancy 10 keeps, and the oil change and tire fixes, anything like that, 11 anything anybody spends money on or orders, they have to have 12 a purchase order. But it's just kept in notebooks, so we can 13 reflect back and see that they actually got one, and we 14 double-check ourselves. But they're not initialed and 15 approved and -- and it's just a matter of tracking our money. 16 And if we have problems, we can put it back together. 17 MS. UECKER: I have a question. 18 MS. HARGIS: Wait, let me answer his first. Number 19 one, that's great, but our auditor -- external auditors are 20 not going to go to Rusty's office and deal with all of that. 21 All we need is signatures on these invoices to verify -- and 22 you want that. Every -- we need to know that Rusty's seen it 23 at some point. And if he initials the invoices, that's fine. 24 And we can have them come over here if he's out of town, and 25 then when he comes back into town, we can have him sign them. 11-14-11 171 1 But we -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They don't like, to use her 3 example, you know, her stamping my approval on it. Because I 4 talk to them every day, even if I'm not here, and we go over 5 that. But that's not -- I don't know, gentlemen. 6 MS. HARGIS: I mean, I defended it just like he 7 defended it, and he -- and he said it didn't matter. We have 8 to have this audit done. We have to comply with the rules. 9 They have changed, Rusty; I'm sorry. In the accounting 10 profession, they keep changing, and they're getting tighter 11 and tighter. You know, all the corporate execs who don't 12 necessarily see these invoices, and they all follow up to 13 them, are having to sign off on these because of Costco. All 14 of this goes back to Enron. If you're not signing them, 15 who's approving them? Ultimately, the person at the top of 16 each department is -- is in charge of them. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure, and responsible for 18 them. 19 MS. HARGIS: And responsible for them. All we need 20 is a signature on the invoice. And -- and then if Nancy 21 wants to approve the top one, as long as yours is on the 22 bottom, but I've got to have both of them signed. And that's 23 why I want to -- let's write this up. It's not an option -- 24 there's not an option between department heads, Rusty. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's always an option. 11-14-11 172 1 MS. HARGIS: No, there's not. There is not an 2 option. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get rid of the software stuff 4 you have, and there's a good option, I can tell you. Or 5 change auditors. There's a lot of options that make sense. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, number one, local government 7 auditors are getting fewer and fewer. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And getting them to do it timely, 10 even if you've got the best of relationships with them, is 11 tough. Secondly, we must have clean audits in order to 12 present the kind of picture to the holders of our debt, 13 primarily, and for the citizens' benefit. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and the only other thing 15 I would say if we're going to do that and look at that, and 16 it -- Jeannie may holler about this part of it too, but 17 that's okay, is I think we seriously need to look at our 18 deadlines. Okay? As long as we can get it turned in, 19 because there's no doubt we'll -- we can get it to you in 20 time to be approved for that court order -- or for that 21 Commissioners Court, 'cause you're looking at them too. And 22 that's fine, if I can turn it in yesterday and be approved 23 today. But turning it in a week out is hurting us towards 24 the end of the month when bills are due, and you may not get 25 it in time, and then we're late. 11-14-11 173 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's let her think about if she can 2 adjust that. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And then be signed off after the 5 fact. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem with that. 7 We just need to come up with a good policy that would enable 8 us to do that without having late bills. 9 MS. HARGIS: That's why we need a policy. Linda? 10 MS. UECKER: Oh. I was trying to figure out if I 11 understood you right. I enter them all; I approve them all. 12 I run the P.O.'s and I sign all the P.O.'s. Based on what 13 you said, are you saying I need to have somebody else enter 14 them? 15 MS. HARGIS: It would be nice to have that second 16 level, but because you're the elected official, no. 17 MS. UECKER: Okay, good. Because, I mean, I'm not 18 going to ask somebody -- 19 MS. HARGIS: But you're one of the few 20 departments -- in fact, I think you're probably singular, 21 unless there's only -- like, the -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Linda's so good. 23 MS. HARGIS: -- constables; they do their own. 24 Most everyone has someone entering P.O.'s, and then they're 25 approving it. It's an extra step, but it's not going to take 11-14-11 174 1 that much longer to sign your name. I mean, come on, guys. 2 We -- every department sends about 10 checks a month through 3 the -- the biggest ones actually come from the lawyers and -- 4 and Rusty's department is one of the larger ones. But we 5 wait until Tuesday. The problem is, we have to check all 6 these bills. There's 700 to 800 bills in front of us every 7 two weeks. We have to check them all, make sure you've got 8 them in the right account, make sure that -- that it's a 9 proper bill; we don't overpay. And then we have to put them 10 in the system, and the report has to come out right. 11 Sometimes it doesn't. That takes time. Then we have to get 12 a report to you, so it takes us about, you know, two -- at 13 least two days, two and a half to get 800 bills over here to 14 y'all to be signed. That's a lot. I mean, even though you 15 may have one check to the electric company, we probably have 16 15 different bills attached to the back of that. Each one of 17 them has to be looked at, because if we didn't, we'd pay 18 double bills all the time. And -- and we have saved a lot of 19 money every month by finding bills that have -- that are not 20 ours, don't belong to us, so forth. So, I will do that one. 21 Do you want to see a full-blown purchasing policy now, or 22 not? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: My thinking is, let's start with the 24 mechanics of it, the very short A-B-C's, and then as we 25 expand, if we decide to expand beyond that, we'll give you 11-14-11 175 1 the go-ahead. 2 MS. HARGIS: That sounds good. Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 38; 4 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding Kerr 5 County resolution to T.C.E.Q. related to Air Quality Permit 6 Number 98676 with Wheatcraft, Incorporated. Commissioner 7 Overby? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, Commissioners, I'm 9 bringing an agenda item to you that this Court has seen 10 before back in 2005, where a resolution of support was 11 addressed on behalf of the citizens of the community of 12 Center Point that were addressing some issues about the 13 similar request from Wheatcraft, Incorporated, at that time 14 on operating a rock-crushing permit. On November 2nd of this 15 year at the Center Point Independent School District, at the 16 cafeteria, we had about 100 folks of -- concerned folks who 17 were there about an hour and a half where we talked about the 18 concern about particulate matter or the air quality permit 19 that was being requested as far as the operation of a rock 20 quarry -- rock crusher in that area, and the concerns of that 21 matter being exposed in the air; how it might impact the 22 community, citizens and those type of things. And what 23 the -- the Court did in '05 also is the same thing that's 24 before you today, requesting a resolution. 25 I'd like to read just the first three items here; 11-14-11 176 1 then I'll -- I'll give a request, what we'd like to adopt 2 today. It says, "Whereas, Wheatcraft, Incorporated, d/b/a 3 Rhodes Pit Rock Quarry located at 6133 Highway 27, Center 4 Point, Texas, has made application to the Texas Commission on 5 Environmental Quality or T.C.E.Q. for Permit Number 98676 to 6 construct and operate a rock-crushing facility; Whereas, 7 there is substantial public interest about the amount of 8 particulate matter that will be discharged into the air daily 9 that may cause harm to the health of adults and children 10 living in close proximity to the proposed rock-crushing 11 facility; Whereas, the Health and Safety Code Chapter 382.056 12 requires a public hearing to be held if there is substantial 13 public interest in the proposed activity." In this case, 14 there is a substantial amount of folks who are concerned 15 about the use of this permit. So, what it is, we're 16 requesting here today -- and there are a list of issues 17 that -- or locations of people's proximity to this facility 18 that were very concerned about, and what the issues that are 19 going into the air. 20 What we are requesting today is a resolution that 21 be adopted by this Commissioners Court that would go to 22 T.C.E.Q. requesting that T.C.E.Q. be sure that they examine 23 carefully all aspects of Air Quality Permit Application 98676 24 filed by Wheatcraft, Incorporated, and insure all state laws 25 and regulations are complied with. Also, we would like to 11-14-11 177 1 make sure that the Kerr County Commissioners Court does 2 request that the Executive Director of T.C.E.Q. conduct a 3 local public hearing -- a contested hearing on said 4 application at the earliest possible date. That was very -- 5 very much requested from the folks that were in Center Point 6 that night, the request for a public hearing to address those 7 issues that they are requesting to have addressed. So, with 8 that, today I bring to you a resolution that, again, this 9 Court adopted in '05 when this first process -- when this 10 application started. And, again, their request now coming 11 six years later again for this air quality permit, we have a 12 lot of issues. There's a lot of concern about what goes into 13 the air. We just want to be sure that they're addressed, 14 that they follow the application, and that the folks have a 15 chance to express their concerns about this permit. And with 16 that, I would make a -- a motion to accept the resolution 17 that's before you here today that would go to T.C.E.Q. on 18 behalf of the concerns about Air Quality Permit 98676. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is one of the requirements 20 that T.C.E.Q. hold a public hearing whenever they consider 21 one of these -- is this a new permit, or just -- this is an 22 old permit; it's up for renewal? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This is a new application. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A new application for a rock 25 crusher, rather than the washing and separating that they've 11-14-11 178 1 been doing? 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I suggest that you -- 4 you're hitting the nail on the head -- that you involve your 5 state rep about bringing the public hearing to Kerrville? 6 Because, historically, they have them in Austin, and nobody 7 goes. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I will say to you, 9 Commissioner Baldwin, at the Center Point meeting, we had our 10 state representative there. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And we had all of our folks 13 that were there also. Senator Fraser was not there, but was 14 requested to be there, but he has been updated with 15 everything. So, all of the folks that were there, requests 16 were addressed at this meeting, and they're all very 17 concerned same issues that we had right here. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so we're asking T.C.E.Q. 19 to just look -- look and make sure everybody's complying with 20 the law? We're not saying shut that thing down? 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. We just want 22 to make sure they address the issues and the concerns of the 23 folks in Center Point, and that they follow those guidelines 24 and those applications, and that they conduct a public 25 hearing for the folks to listen to -- 11-14-11 179 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Hold a public hearing. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- a public hearing. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. That's 5 important. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I have only one 7 word change in your last "Further Resolved." 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That copies of this "resolution 10 of opposition." I don't see this as a resolution of 11 opposition. I see it as a resolution of saying we want to 12 make sure that the state law is followed. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That can be amended. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If that's in there, I won't 15 vote for it. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We'll just have that amended. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not going to oppose 18 something that they can legally go and request, and they have 19 to meet all the requirements to get a permit. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We want them just to follow 22 the law. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Want to follow the law. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Follow the law. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as they follow the 11-14-11 180 1 law, they're all right. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Follow the application. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like the state of 4 Texas is bound to follow the law. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: One would think so. So, the 6 suggestion is remove the two words, "of opposition"? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're good to go? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take that out and I'll go 11 with it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion for approval of the 13 resolution. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Now, question or 16 discussion on the motion? All in favor of that motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 22 Item 39. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That item needs to be removed, 24 Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Pass it? 11-14-11 181 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 40; consider, discuss, 3 take appropriate action to select an architect for addition 4 to Kerr County Adult Detention Center based on prior RFQ's 5 submitted. Sheriff? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I narrowed it down, going 7 through RFQ's, and the basis that I used was the amount of 8 experience, or the -- based on our RFQ, the amount of 9 experience with the Texas Commission on Jail Standards, 10 actually building jails in Texas, and then also on the 11 experience that we personally had with the architect. So, 12 the architectural firms -- there's two of them that I have 13 recommended. The first one would be DRG Architects, which is 14 Wayne Gondeck's architectural group out of San Antonio. 15 They've had projects, namely with the juvenile facility here 16 locally, but they have extensive experience with the Texas 17 Jail Commission, which was one of the major bases of my 18 recommendation. And then failing any negotiation, whatever 19 it works after that, Burns Architecture was the other one 20 that had a lot of -- the majority of experience with the 21 Texas Commission on Jail Standards. They had -- and I'm not 22 sure he's still there; I heard rumors a different way last 23 week, but one of the ones in their firm or with their firm as 24 an adviser used to also be the Executive Director of the Jail 25 Commission. And I heard a rumor last week he left to work 11-14-11 182 1 for a construction company, and not part of that any more. I 2 don't know; I can't verify that. It still wouldn't have 3 changed the recommendations that I recommended to this Court 4 on using DRG first and Burns second, failing those 5 negotiations, whatever the contract prices will be. And 6 that's the recommendations I have and why. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe the next item is one we ought 8 to get called also. That bears on this issue. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call Item 41; to consider, 11 discuss, take appropriate action to schedule workshop and 12 appoint committee for new Adult Detention Facility needs. 13 Commissioner Baldwin, I know that you placed this on the 14 agenda thinking about the overall aspects of this project. 15 Is it more appropriate in your mind that we have the workshop 16 and the committee designation ahead of the selection of the 17 architect, or vice-versa, or what are your thoughts on that? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I agree with you. I 19 think -- I think that we need to hear from the smart people 20 in the room on this thing. And my recommendation, the names 21 of the two D.A.'s, and with the two D.A.'s, the two District 22 Judges, you know, all the people that are the players in this 23 thing. Just bring them together at least that one time to 24 see if we can feel them -- feel them out of what -- and see 25 if we can't glean out of that meeting a good solid direction 11-14-11 183 1 to go. You know, and I think that we could do that. I think 2 we can pull that off. And not everybody will attend that; 3 that's fine, but we'll just deal with who we have. Yes, that 4 was my thought, is to try to have -- I would prefer -- 5 there's safety in many counselors is my -- my step in this 6 thing. And I just feel like if we can hear from everybody 7 that's involved in the system, that maybe we can come out of 8 there with something real and something we can put our hands 9 on. But I can go either way, personally. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Depending upon what committee is 11 suggested by Commissioner Baldwin, what effect, if any, do 12 you think that input from that committee would have on your 13 suggestion or recommendation as to who you want to be 14 involved with -- with Kerr County on the design and 15 construction of this facility? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. On the first agenda 17 item, the recommendation I would have probably would not 18 change. We do have -- have one, Mr. Gondeck. Another local 19 architect, Mr. Walker, is associated with another one of 20 those firms. You know, they've had lots of experience with 21 prison systems, out-of-state ones, some of the smaller jails, 22 but not the -- not the overall experience that I saw as 23 evidenced by the qualification packet sent by the other two. 24 But he would have local experience too. The reason I went to 25 Buster, being my liaison, and asked that maybe we really do 11-14-11 184 1 need to form a committee and actually have some serious 2 workshops, if you'll remember, I did this -- this first 3 started occurring in about 2004, and we went out for RFQ's 4 and didn't do anything at that time. We were able to get 5 through a lot of that. I don't know how many of y'all -- I 6 know Judge Tinley has, and I have -- I had asked during this 7 time for a facility needs analysis from the Commission on 8 Jail Standards. I received it last week, week before -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Couple weeks ago. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Couple weeks ago. Looking at 11 their facility needs analysis, they use demographics; they 12 use population. They use, I mean, colleges you have, how 13 many camps you have, what recreation you have, rehab centers. 14 They use all those type -- and past history and everything of 15 -- and what your predicted growth is and everything to come 16 up with a -- with a facility needs on what your facility 17 should need. And in reading through their analysis, 18 Scenario 1 in their analysis -- I think it was one -- said 19 we'd probably need 48 beds to last us through 2030, okay? 20 Scenario 2 said we don't need any more beds than what we have 21 right now. I'm already fixing to have to house prisoners out 22 of county 'cause I don't have enough beds now. 23 They don't look at -- and there's nothing in that 24 facility needs analysis that looks at the status of our court 25 systems and that in Kerr County, as you saw evidenced by -- 11-14-11 185 1 it's either today or Friday's paper; there's one grand jury 2 that indicted 29 more. Each grand jury meets twice a month. 3 They are normally indicting about 25 on average each time 4 they meet, and so the number of new cases coming into the 5 court system is staggering. And I pulled the -- the stats 6 for our current court system. There are over 1,000 7 outstanding criminal cases filed in County Court at Law right 8 now. There are -- combined, there's almost 8,000 outstanding 9 criminal cases filed in our district courts right now. There 10 are over 1,000 people on probation in this county, okay? Our 11 system's plogged. We all know that it's plogged seriously. 12 And I think that is having more of a dramatic input on our 13 jail population inside Kerr County than all the demographics 14 and camps and rehabs and growth and everything else. So, 15 trying to really give this Court an honest answer, is 48 beds 16 going to last us till 2030? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think any of us 19 believe that. All right. But that's what their 20 recommendations are. I think we really need to sit down and 21 have some very serious, strong workshops, and where do we 22 want to go with our jail and with our facility? That will 23 last us the lifetime of either a bond issue, C.O.'s -- you 24 know, this current jail gets paid off in February, and it's 25 pretty well lasted us, you know, since it was built. And I 11-14-11 186 1 was here on the prior one, so it really came out pretty good 2 on building it about that size. But I'm not sure I can say 3 48 minimum, or 48 minimum-medium, or 48 more maximum is going 4 to do that. What we're playing with now, shuffling females 5 and males around, and every time I get one too many females, 6 I use up 16 male beds, 'cause they have to be out of sight 7 and sound, I have to move them over to that. I can't tell 8 you -- and I don't want to sit here and tell you 48 beds is 9 enough. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. After all -- listening 11 to Commissioner Baldwin and listening to you for the better 12 part of 15 minutes, the two of y'all, I'll go back to the 13 Judge's first question. Do we need to hire the architect 14 first or second? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we should, because I 16 think that architect needs to be part of this -- this 17 committee to be able to help us arrange and be able to give 18 us the economically best -- you know, the staffing levels, 19 the building, and what we need to do. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then, knowing -- I mean, 21 it's conceivable we may not move forward, but pretty certain 22 we probably will. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't see the committee -- 24 I can see the committee -- probably they're going to say you 25 have to expand the jail. I mean, we're out of -- we're out 11-14-11 187 1 of other options. I mean, I see little things like we need 2 -- we need to hire visiting judges. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I can see how that 5 would help, but that's pretty minor stuff. You know, we've 6 done the Friday morning jail court out there. That's minor 7 stuff, but it helps a little bit along. But you're not going 8 to really address the issue. I don't see how you can really 9 address the issue out there without expansion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: To some degree. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To some degree, yeah. I 12 just don't know what that degree is. And I think that these 13 wise people -- and if you notice, I put the District Clerk on 14 there, 'cause last time we put one of these committees 15 together, she kicked our butts for not putting her on there, 16 and so she's on this one. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the plan would be that we 18 appoint -- or approve the Sheriff's recommendation for the 19 architect, and then -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I recommend. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and then we form a committee 22 to figure out the next step? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's your motion there, 25 Senór Baldwin? 11-14-11 188 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Your suggestion, then, is that we 2 first attempt to negotiate and arrive at some acceptable 3 contractual terms with your number one on your selection 4 list? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And only failing that do we abandon 7 that and then go to your number two on the selection list? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What -- yes. Yes. The number 9 one is definitely okay. That's the one I'm recommending. 10 Failing that, I had been recommending number two, but I 11 understand there may be an employee personnel change in there 12 which could have an effect on my recommendation on the number 13 two, because of the -- the in with the Jail Commission as far 14 as directly working with them. So, number two could change, 15 but I will mainly recommend number one at this point. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your recommendation is that the 17 Court enter an order today to attempt to enter into 18 negotiations, and hopefully appropriate contractual terms 19 with Mr. Gondeck's firm? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is correct, because that 21 was worded as consultant/architect, and I think it will be 22 good to have him on this committee. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11-14-11 189 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Is there any further 4 discussion on that motion? All in favor, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay. 10 We've already called the workshop and committee, Item Number 11 41. What, if anything, do we have to offer on that? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you see I put together 13 a list, and, you know, it's certainly easy to move those 14 people around. I just thought that was a good place to 15 start. It lists the Sheriff or his representative, two 16 members of the Commissioners Court, County Court at Law 17 Judge, two District Judges, two District Attorneys, County 18 Attorney, and the District Clerk on that committee. And what 19 I'm thinking is, I can't imagine all those people showing up 20 at one time to have a meeting. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't either. I don't know 22 how you're going to pull that off. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that's the reason I made 24 it kind of large, so if a few showed up, maybe we'd have a 25 conversation at least. 11-14-11 190 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And you're offering a motion 2 to that effect? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am excited about it, and 4 honored to be able to offer that motion, yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. And the members from 7 the Court are yourself and Number 2? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge Tinsley (sic). Do you 10 have any interest in this at all? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want me to have, 12 Commissioner, I'll be happy to have interest in it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it will be myself and 14 Judge Tinsley. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. Did you make a motion 16 already? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: He made a motion. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 20 form a committee to meet to discuss and hopefully come to 21 some overall jail needs consensus, to be comprised as 22 indicated by Commissioner Baldwin. And how we're going to 23 find a single day that we can get all those folks that will 24 even commit to be there is going to be interesting, but we'll 25 try. 11-14-11 191 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, this is going to be 2 fun. And I suggest we do one of these real early in the 3 morning things. We seem to have pretty good luck with that. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the judges seem to be 5 able to meet at 7:00 in the morning for -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- juvenile. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And so -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 10 discussion on that? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 42; consider, 16 discuss, take appropriate action to approve setting the cost 17 for a copy of the Fiscal 2011-12 budget. Ms. Pieper? 18 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, last year y'all had set the 19 complete copy of the budget, if it was purchased from my 20 office, at $50, so I would like to request that same price. 21 Otherwise, if they just want a couple of pages, it's a dollar 22 a page, which is set out by statute. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. It's available online, 24 though, correct? 25 MS. PIEPER: It is available online free of charge. 11-14-11 192 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second his second. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion and second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Who offered the motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Me. I just said "second," but 6 I meant motion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. I have a motion 8 and a second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Late. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 11 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Number 43; 16 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 17 Government/Municipal/Public Funds Banking Resolution so as to 18 permit County Attorney to open bank account for deposit and 19 disbursement of hot check restitution paid by credit card. 20 Mr. Henneke? 21 MR. HENNEKE: Gentlemen, at the last Commissioners 22 Court meeting, the Court authorized the County Attorney's 23 office to collect credit card payments for hot check 24 restitution, and we're working with Security State Bank and 25 Trust, which has the trust account for the County Attorney's 11-14-11 193 1 office, in setting up the credit card receipts. In my 2 opinion, the best practice is to have a separate account for 3 credit card moneys to come into before being moved into our 4 trust account, so as not to give open access to the trust 5 account, and in order to open up a new account, the bank 6 requires that this resolution be adopted by the Court 7 authorizing the creation of -- of the account, and I would 8 respectfully request to approve the resolution and authorize 9 the Judge to sign the same. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I so move. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 13 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of that 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. let's go back 19 to Item 18; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 20 approve Advance Funding Agreement with Texas Department of 21 Transportation on Cade Loop Bridge, authorize County Judge to 22 sign same. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have the resolution yet 24 or not? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We do -- no, not the resolution. 11-14-11 194 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We just -- we're going to -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do it by court order. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is in my precinct, 4 and I certainly hope that everybody will support it. This 5 has been a needed bridge for a long time, and this -- we 6 talked about it was back in 2007 when they first talked to us 7 about it. TexDOT agreed to fund half, and the County half, 8 but they capped our half at 350,000, which it very well could 9 cost more than that. But I'm also involved with acquiring 10 the right-of-way, and I just found out who owned on the side 11 next to Highway 39. It's the Ingram Little League, and I 12 have gotten a response from them that they might want to be 13 compensated a little bit, but I think there's some new 14 development on that. I'm going to meet with them as soon as 15 this meeting is over, and they have told me they want to push 16 it forward. If there is any money involved in acquiring 17 right-of-way, it will be very minimal. But it sounds to me 18 like they're on board. I think they had some little folks 19 visit with them since our first conversation. And I will 20 know more later, but I sure hope that we do support this and 21 we make it part of our package that we approve today. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to try to clear 23 out all underbrush and trees and stuff like that? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, this is replacing the 25 bridge. 11-14-11 195 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, but around that 2 bridge there's still a lot of -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we don't -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- stuff that was holding up 5 the water, logs and stuff. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't own it. That's 7 all -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So -- but it will be -- you 10 know, we'll have a wide enough right-of-way now where we can 11 at least clean it, and it will be open underneath. The old 12 bridge will be removed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But the first deal, they were 15 going to leave it like they did -- you know, did in the 16 Indian Creek. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That has caused a lot of 19 problems. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, catches everything 21 that comes down. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just collects there. But 23 this bridge will be open underneath. The old bridge will be 24 removed. I'm trying to get an additional 30 feet of 25 right-of-way either side of the center line of the road from 11-14-11 196 1 -- from Ingram Little League to make it possible. We have 2 plenty of right-of-way on the south side. We have 109 feet 3 that was gotten -- that was taken care of somehow years ago 4 when that road was widened going up -- you know how it used 5 to be so narrow; then it was all different and all -- 6 anyway... 7 JUDGE TINLEY: On the downstream side, you've 8 already got it. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we have plenty on the 10 downstream and the upstream side of -- of the far side of the 11 river. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, on the south side of the river? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: South side. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Had Mr. Voelkel to do some 16 preliminary look at that, and we have 109 feet there. The 17 bridge will actually be 24 feet wide, so we're going to be 18 able to fit it into there, but we don't have -- we don't have 19 needed right-of-way or easement on the 39 side, so that's 20 what I'm trying to acquire from Little League, and I think 21 it's going to work. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hopefully better than 24 Arrowhead did. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you move to approve the Advance 11-14-11 197 1 Funding -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move to approve the public 3 -- let me see. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You've been working with 5 TexDOT how long on this, Bruce? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, since 2007. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually before that, but -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- 2007 is the most recent. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm in the wrong -- no wonder 13 I can't see what I'm looking at. Okay, that's the next one. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Advance Funding Agreement 15 for -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, for -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- preventive maintenance and 18 rehabilitation project. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. You'll make the 20 motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and 24 second for approval of the agenda item to approve the 25 agreement and authorize me to sign same. Question or 11-14-11 198 1 discussion on the motion? All in favor, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. There will be a 8 lot of people that really do appreciate that and have been 9 kind of stranded for a long time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Big project. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess we need to go to -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Executive? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Section 4, payment of the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You heard the Auditor say a 15 while ago that payment of the bills is not fun. Let's show 16 her how much fun this is. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills -- or we 18 already did that? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. You rascal. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 23 second -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for payment of the bills. 11-14-11 199 1 Question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I had one question, and it 3 won't take long. I was -- I was concerned about the number 4 of my former business that I was in as far as autopsies that 5 we're doing. One thing I am working with is the local 6 funeral homes to put something together with our J.P.'s. I 7 know y'all have done this before, but it just seems like to 8 me it's getting more and more expensive. What's our number 9 that we're doing? Did we ever find out what that number was? 10 And -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Well, we spent 81 -- almost 82,000 12 last year, where we spent 50,000 the year before. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's unbelievable. 14 MS. HARGIS: Travis County went up on the autopsies 15 by $300, and then I think the funeral homes went up by $50. 16 And -- and when he asked me to look, if you'll look in here, 17 we've got four in today. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: See, I think that's the 20 thing. I know that both John and Jeannie have both expressed 21 interest in doing a format on that, but even if we cut -- 22 even if we can somehow cut out 10 of those that are 23 unnecessary, then it's 30 -- $30,000. So, I'm going to let 24 you know, I'm just going to be working on setting that up 25 here first of the year to do that, and I hope that we'll get 11-14-11 200 1 all of our J.P.'s to attend those meetings. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can get them to attend, 3 but getting them to comply with something else -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, we can definitely try 5 to encourage as much as we can. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good luck. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You may want to invite those from 8 other counties in the area too. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes -- yeah, Bandera and 10 different areas like that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The other thing that I'm noticing a 12 great deal of are the requests for the County to be 13 responsible for disposition of remains financially. There 14 has been a rash of those in the last few weeks, like the -- 15 more than we normally see in a year. Another one came in 16 today, by the way. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that just -- 19 MS. HARGIS: We're paying for one of those today. 20 I think last year we didn't -- we maybe did one or two, 21 maybe, last year. We didn't do that many. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a lot more requests than 23 that, I can assure you. 24 MS. HARGIS: I'm sure you did. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many of those requests 11-14-11 201 1 were approved so far? 2 MS. HARGIS: One. We have one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: One or two of all these that we've 4 got the rash in. 5 MS. HARGIS: We wrote a check for one. That's the 6 only one I know. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Anyway, I want to follow up 8 with that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I got a question on Page 6. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Hope I can answer it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the Sheriff's repair bill, 12 4,600? I hope that was a whole lot of vehicles. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May have been Krause's overall 14 bill. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, there's two of them, 16 actually. There's one of them just under 600; that was gas 17 and oil line item. And then repair and maintenance, 4,600. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's why you need to look at your 19 bills. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do look at them. That is 21 Krauss Garage, number one. The gas and oil is oil changes, 22 things like that come out of that. And then repair is just 23 the vehicles going down and having to be repaired, period, 24 for each one of those. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope that's an accumulation of 11-14-11 202 1 several. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, that's going to be over 3 at least a month's period of time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it showed October. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. That would have had to 6 have been done. That's just two. That's the repair work on 7 the vehicles, not -- not deer accidents or wrecks. That's 8 just regular repairs. 9 MS. HARGIS: But we have had a little bit of a rash 10 of that as well. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We just had a crash. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, we did, which we're responsible 13 for, but we have insurance. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the problem is -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we pay for it in the premium the 17 following year. 18 MS. HARGIS: The deer have been eating our lunch 19 this year too. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The deer are so hungry, they're 21 going after sheet metal, huh? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Deer are -- you know, we all 23 see that just 'cause of the drought, they're right at the 24 edge of the road all the time now. But yes, we did have one 25 -- one of the unmarked -- the older Tauruses was involved in 11-14-11 203 1 an accident about a week and a half ago. That is going to be 2 our fault. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do I look like Obama? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and second 5 to pay the bills? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 7 THE CLERK: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We've got two 14 budgets amendments, as I recall. I don't have them in front 15 of me, but there were two of them shown on the summary. 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion to approve those 18 as presented? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the budget amendments as presented. Question or 23 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-14-11 204 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 4 any late bills? 5 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 7 reports from Constable, Precinct 3; Constable, Precinct 1; 8 Constable, Precinct 4; County Clerk; District Clerk; 9 Environmental Health Department; Justice of the Peace, 10 Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion for approval of these 11 reports -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as presented? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and a second for approval. 16 Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Okay. Let's go 22 to reports from elected officials in connection with their -- 23 or from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or 24 committee assignments. Commissioner Baldwin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. We had -- 11-14-11 205 1 we had lunch today with the Historical Commission. I don't 2 know if you was aware of that or not, but -- and the food was 3 a lot better. Sandwiches were great. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Pretty good cookies, too. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Had great cookies. And 6 that's about all I have to report on at this time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Overby? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Not at this time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody and I had a great trip out 11 to Camp Wood last week. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't y'all get that meeting 13 moved to someplace else besides Camp Wood? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it, Commissioner? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's enough. Oh, just 17 Animal Control's been having -- been pretty stressed out 18 lately. They had a little issue last week. I think they had 19 a problem with a live animal going down in a drain, and they 20 involved everybody; the Sheriff's Department, Road and 21 Bridge, everybody else. I'm not sure. I think they -- I 22 guess they finally got the plans from Cheryl or somebody. 23 THE CLERK: We don't have the plans. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have the plans? 25 Mikey Walker was here earlier; he's the one that designed 11-14-11 206 1 that and oversaw the building of it, so I guess we need to 2 get a set of plans from the boy and put them on file. 3 Anyway, Janie had a pretty rough time the other day, but 4 that's over. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully behind us now. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Was there any success in that 7 operation? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not sure. I never got a 9 final on that evaluation, and a final report. I'm not sure I 10 wanted one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Reports from elected officials? 14 Department heads? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick. Thank you 16 for the action earlier today, but there is a couple of things 17 I want to mention real quick. The -- the volunteer fire 18 department radio project that's being worked on down in 19 Center Point by the chief deputy, that is moving forward 20 pretty well. You know, they had electricity down there, and 21 starting to install some of this stuff and get that worked 22 out. It will require all the volunteer fire departments, as 23 well as my department, to eventually reprogram all the radios 24 to their updated frequencies, and it's just a cost we're 25 going to have to have. 11-14-11 207 1 Second thing is, we mentioned it to you a little 2 bit earlier, Judge, but I think it's time that this Court may 3 need to get involved, and we all may need to get involved. I 4 don't know what the other department heads' feelings are, but 5 I am extremely disappointed in our county-wide computer 6 system. It has not been doing half of what it should be able 7 to do, and it just seems like every time they come out with 8 something, we're having more and more issues and more and 9 more deficiencies in that system. And what I'm hearing 10 across the state is more and more of those -- of counties and 11 agencies are having issues with that system. But the bottom 12 line is, if I can't get it to do the basic law enforcement 13 function that I need for it to be able to do, I may have to 14 look at going to a different system, which would require us 15 to have two, 'cause the courts and everybody still uses ours. 16 But we just cannot seem to get a lot of those 17 issues fixed. Clay is -- chief deputy is on the phone with 18 them every week, and it is constantly getting to be more and 19 more of an issue with us. We can't even print out a stolen 20 property list. And you have to -- if you have somebody you 21 suspect in a bunch of burglaries, you've got to hopefully 22 remember what all the burglaries are to try and pull and what 23 reports and individually flag to them to look at stolen 24 property. And we arrested one last week where we didn't get 25 the list, and we recovered a whole bunch of stolen property 11-14-11 208 1 and took pictures of the other victim's property, but didn't 2 get it recovered, 'cause we couldn't prove it at that time, 3 that it was in a local burglary. This system is not -- is 4 very, very deficient. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many sheriff's departments 6 are using the system? Do you have any idea? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I really don't know, but I 8 haven't been hearing good things about it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Next question is, are 10 there good alternatives? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, there are some very good 12 alternatives. The problem we have here, and it gets very 13 detailed and very involved, is because Odyssey, the system 14 kind of starts -- especially on the criminal side of it with 15 the jail, you know, the first input of people, all that kind 16 of -- and then it's totally interlinked with all the courts. 17 The clerk's office, everything else is interlinked because of 18 the -- the jail and the Sheriff's Office part. And it's 19 great for sharing the information, but I can't get it to do a 20 lot of the things we need to do. And we're having -- you 21 know, things come up where -- we had an issue come up where 22 you had an arrest that showed up under one guy that was 23 never, ever arrested for that, okay? It was actually another 24 person. They weren't merged or anything. 25 And if it would -- if this guy would have been 11-14-11 209 1 arrested for that offense, he would have been one-year-old 2 when he got arrested for it. And it's just all of a sudden 3 appeared on this other one's, you know, deal. I just -- it's 4 going to get us in a liability issue. I'm just very, very 5 dissatisfied with the way Odyssey has been going and where 6 we're headed with it. I think it's something we need to 7 seriously -- there's a lot of money this county's spent on 8 it, but I think we need to look at some alternatives. And 9 this has been going on since we went to Odyssey in small 10 ways. The point of, "Well, let's work with them; let's meet 11 with them," we did that one-on-one. They came up constantly, 12 and things seemed to run a little bit smoother for a little 13 bit. Then all of a sudden, kaput, right back at it. I don't 14 understand it. It's the same thing over and over, and I just 15 wish the Court would take a look at it. That's my report. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, the Court 17 take a look at it? There's nobody up here that can spell 18 computer. What -- doing what? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's time the County 20 seriously starts looking at going to a different system. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, sit down somewhere. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, if you want my opinion, 23 that's exactly what we're at. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or can we -- can we, as a 25 court, ask John to do some kind of study? 11-14-11 210 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I've -- once this morning when the 2 Sheriff began expressing that to me, I called John and I said 3 I want -- told him I wanted a sit-down with him; that we're 4 getting -- getting some complaints stacking up on us; we want 5 to sit down with him. We had another issue before, and 6 unfortunately, when I talked to him about that, we'd already 7 paid them their annual software fee. I wish I'd have gotten 8 in ahead of that; we would have had some leverage. But in 9 his communications, he indicated that at that point, it was 10 the O.C.A. reports that we were having some difficulties 11 with. But what -- what I'm going to do is ask every 12 department to enumerate in writing the difficulties they're 13 having with the current system. Each department, and we'll 14 consolidate all those reports. I don't want any of this 15 nonsense about somebody telling me in the hall. I need it 16 all in writing, and so we're going to get out an e-mail to 17 everybody and make sure we got it all rolled from into one 18 nice package, and then we're going to have a set-to. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like the Court's 20 getting involved to me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Or I am. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One simple way of doing that, 25 Judge, if you wish -- and I'm not knocking John or his staff 11-14-11 211 1 or I.T. staff, 'cause they deal with the hardware we have on 2 our desk, all the computers themselves. They do an excellent 3 job in keeping us up and keeping us going. One thing about 4 it is, every time anything has happened with Odyssey where it 5 goes down, it's sent in on Help Desk, which is the county and 6 I.T.'s policy and everything to send in all those issues. 7 And I think all you have to do to get your total issues that 8 you better have a -- a truck or a cart to bring it from his 9 office to yours, is just ask for a copy of all the Help Desk 10 issues that have gone on with Odyssey. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Plus any that haven't been 12 documented. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're all documented when -- 14 whenever that person has sent in that issue. So John has 15 them all, and you can get them directly from him so you can 16 print it out. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, Sheriff. 18 MS. PIEPER: You can probably link a bunch of those 19 issues up to every time there's an update. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 21 MS. PIEPER: I said you could probably link a bunch 22 of those issues to every time there's an update. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And the bugs we get each time 24 there's a new update. 25 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm. 11-14-11 212 1 JUDGE TINLEY: New application that they try, and 2 there you go. 3 MS. PIEPER: Normally, you're supposed to have you 4 a test site that you go on and test. You know, they upload 5 that first. You go on and test, and you hopefully work out 6 bugs. I got less than 10 minutes to test last time because 7 my test wouldn't work, and I sent in to the Help Desk that my 8 file was not working, so 10 minutes before they were doing 9 the upload, I got a response. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So you documented that on 11 Help Desk, then? 12 MS. PIEPER: Yes, I did. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: In adequate time to do the test? 14 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, but I got my password corrected 15 10 minutes before the test was being uploaded on ProDoc, 16 which didn't give me any time to test. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And a lot of your issues come 18 up a week later. Even though you test and you look at it, 19 there's so many thousands of facets in this system of 20 different -- you know, I can do one thing at my office and it 21 may mess up half a dozen that she does. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, don't be messing up her stuff. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I try and stay off of it, but 25 it's just what's happened. 11-14-11 213 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we know whose fault it is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You're messing up everybody else's 4 stuff. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead. That's what they 6 all claim anyhow. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's got to be you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tell me I can't use it any 10 more and I'll quit. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else? Yeah? 12 MR. HENNEKE: Just two updates on my litigation 13 issues. The Arreola dispute involving the property on 27, 14 the dance hall and rodeo, we had the mediation a couple weeks 15 ago. Commissioner Letz attended, as well as Ray Garcia and 16 John Hewitt. We haven't settled the case yet, but I think we 17 made a whole lot of progress. I'm waiting for a response 18 from Mr. Arreola's attorney, and I think we got a lot of 19 good work done there. The other case, you will remember 20 the Castlecomb litigation that's ongoing involving the 21 unlicensed wastewater system. I apologize, but the reason I 22 had to step out of Commissioners Court this afternoon was to 23 go successfully defend the case upstairs. The defendants 24 were less than happy that we weren't going to quit and walk 25 away, and so they petitioned the Court for dismissal of the 11-14-11 214 1 case. The Court denied their request and -- and denied the 2 dismissal, so I was taking care of that upstairs, but we're 3 proceeding forward and prosecuting that case. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I get a copy of that 5 court ruling that the -- that the dismissal request was 6 denied? 7 MR. HENNEKE: It was verbal. The Court made an 8 entry in its docket. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MR. HENNEKE: I don't think there's an order 11 entered. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's subsequently an order -- 13 short order, it'll end up in the file. I'm sure you can get 14 a copy of it. 15 MR. HENNEKE: If there is an order entered, I'll 16 get you a copy. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's just -- you know, 18 we have constituents that are concerned about that issue, and 19 I want to respond to them with stuff like that. That would 20 be cool. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more over here? Okay. We will 22 go out of open or public session at 3:09 p.m. for the purpose 23 of going into executive session. 24 (The open session was closed at 3:09 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 25 is contained in a separate document.) - - - - - - - - - - 11-14-11 215 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we are back in open or public 2 session. Does any member of the Court have anything to offer 3 with regard to matters considered in executive session; in 4 particular, Item 44? Consider discuss, take appropriate 5 action regarding complaint of Cecil Atkinson and City of 6 Kerrville vs. Lower Colorado River Authority Transmission 7 Services Corporation. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 9 agree to the settlement offer from L.C.R.A. regarding the 10 complaint of Cecil Atkinson, City of Kerrville against Lower 11 Colorado River Authority Transmission Services Corporation 12 and authorize County Judge to sign same. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to 15 approve the settlement. That's the one that's previously 16 approved by both Cecil Atkinson and City of Kerrville? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: According to your understanding? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 20 MR. HENNEKE: And the copy's been provided to the 21 Commissioners; I believe you gentlemen have a copy of it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 23 that motion? 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 11-14-11 216 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Anything else 6 to come before this meeting? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We've got a Commissioners 8 Court meeting on Wednesday morning at 8:45? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 MR. HENNEKE: Election results. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Canvass votes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We're adjourned. 13 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 3:15 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-14-11 217 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 29th day of November, 8 2011. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-14-11