1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, December 12, 2011 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 12, 2011 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 7 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 12 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on presentation of Airport FY 12 Budget 15 5 1.2 Presentation regarding San Antonio Food Bank 19 6 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 7 final approval of private road name of Saralee Trail West, Precinct 4 26 8 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to drop 9 existing private road name of Dale Durst Rd. W. and rename private road Scott Ranch Rd. W., Pct. 4 27 10 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 11 final approval of revision of plat for Lots 1-A & 1-B, Block 7, Village West Industrial Park, 12 Phase Two, Section Two, Pct. 4 27 13 1.6 Presentation regarding BCFS Youth Build program 31 14 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding complaint from Mike Trainum regarding 15 Veterans Administration Hospital 33 16 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve OSSF Intergovernmental amended agreements 17 with City of Kerrville and City of Ingram 43 18 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve purchase of one 2012 Ford 4x4 truck with 19 trade-in of previously wrecked/repaired vehicle from current contingency 46 20 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 21 reallocate grant 710065 remaining funds for possible use outside colonia areas on various 22 OSSF/wastewater projects 48 23 1.12 Discuss/consider, take appropriate action on presentation regarding recent ground-breaking 24 ceremonies on development of new aquatic center planned for Children’s Association for Maximum 25 Potential (CAMP) facility in Center Point, Texas 54 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 12, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning open investigator position 60 4 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 declare five vehicles surplus and either trade them in or possibly sell one or more to City of 6 Ingram; use proceeds from sale to offset the purchase of 2012 Chevrolet Tahoes 62 7 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve amendment to T-Mobile tower license agreement 64 9 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 approve professional services agreement with Tyler Technologies; authorize County Judge to 11 sign same 74 12 1.19 Presentation from Col. Tony Arnold, U.S. Army, Retired, regarding Operation Second Chance/ 13 Wounded Warriors Helping Heros Move On 75 14 1.21 Discussion of issues relating to Flat Rock Lake Park 85 15 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 accept conveyance of property from Ingram Little League Association for Cade Loop 17 right-of-way and additional property west of right-of-way presently owned by Ingram Little 18 League Association 96, 102 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Auditor’s Office to prepare and solicit 20 bids for professional services for engineer, bond counsel, attorney, and financial adviser under the 21 Disadvantaged Business Act for the Texas Water Development Board grant 101 22 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 approve "Agreement to Provide Bond Counsel Services to Kerr County, Texas" with McCall 24 Parkhurst and Horton, L.L.P. --- 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 12, 2011 2 PAGE 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve procedures for purchase orders, inputting them into Incode computer software program, as 4 well as properly approving invoices and directions on purchasing from the Local Government Code 262 104 5 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 address possibility of prohibiting the sale or use of restricted fireworks in any portion of 7 the unincorporated area of Kerr County pursuant to Local Government Code § 352.051 for December 8 fireworks season 109 9 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on preparing RFQ for insurance consultant for 10 health insurance and other benefits 110 11 1.24 Update on new lease with Kerrville Youth Baseball Softball Association (KYBSA) in Kerr County 112 12 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 13 approving application submitted to Texas Water Development Board for Clean Water State Revolving 14 Fund (CWSRF) 115 15 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Commissioner Letz to submit any other 16 documentation relating to application for Clean Water State Revolving Fund (CWSRF) as may be 17 requested by TWDB 116 18 1.33 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to present Leonard Odom with “Outstanding Road 19 Administrator in Texas of the Year” award 118 20 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding whether or not to allow non-certified 21 burn managers to perform prescribed burns during a burn ban; approve policy for implementation of 22 same 122 23 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to provide letter of support to Alamo Regional 24 Transportation’s grant application to AACOG for Kerr County participation in four-county Regional 25 Mobility Awareness Program 132 5 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 12, 2011 2 PAGE 3 1.29 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Kerr Economic Development 4 Corporation; allow the County Judge to sign same 134 5 1.30 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on revised plan for show barn at the Hill Country 6 Youth Exhibit Center 134 7 1.31 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to determine approximate start date for renovations 8 at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and determine how to handle existing and future 9 contracts for events scheduled in Exhibit Hall and Hog Barn areas of the facility 150 10 1.32 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 11 regarding pending litigation matter, "Kerr County, Texas v. eGovernment Technologies, Inc." --- 12 1.34 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 approve early voting location for 2012 March primary election and runoff, if any, to Hill 14 Country Youth Exhibit Center, and a second early voting location at the Kerr County Tax 15 Office Substation in Ingram in accordance with Chapter 43 of the Texas Election Code 162 16 4.1 Pay Bills 165 17 4.2 Budget Amendments 166 4.3 Late Bills 166 18 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 167 19 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 168 20 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 186 21 --- Adjourned 188 22 23 24 25 6 1 On Monday, December 12, 2011, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, December 12, 2011, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes, Judge. It's an honor 13 for me today to have my father-in-law, Dale Durham, who's 14 been in the ministry for over 65 years, been my father-in-law 15 for over 30 years, and Dale's coming up on nearly 70 years of 16 being married as well. Dale is with us here today. He's 17 still very active at Sunrise Baptist Church, still visiting a 18 lot of folks in our hospitals, and our shut-ins in our 19 community, and it's an honor to have my father-inlaw, Dale 20 Durham, lead us in our invocation today. If you'll stand, 21 he'll lead us in our pledge of allegiance. Dale, glad to 22 have you. 23 MR. DURHAM: Thank you, Guy. 24 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. You may be seated. At 12-12-11 7 1 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 2 that wishes to be heard on any matter which is not a listed 3 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and be 4 heard. If you wish to be heard on an agenda matter which is 5 a listed agenda item, we'd ask that you wait until that 6 agenda item is called. Additionally, we'd ask that you fill 7 out a participation form located at the rear of the room. 8 That helps me know that there's someone that wants to speak 9 on that item. However, if you wish to be heard on an agenda 10 item and haven't filled out a participation form, that's okay 11 too. Just get my attention in some manner when we reach that 12 item, and I'll give you an opportunity to be heard. But 13 right now, if -- those that wish to be heard on any matter 14 which are not a listed agenda item -- come forward give us 15 your name and address, please, sir. Tell us what's on your 16 mind. 17 MR. BITNER: My name is Jimmy Bitner. I live at 18 3000 Goat Creek Road, Kerr County, Texas. I've been a 19 resident here for 30 years. I've used our judicial system 20 here. I've used our courts. I have been a taxpayer. And 21 first, I want to speak to my commissioner, Mr. Oehlers here. 22 I contacted you well over 30 days ago and wanted to talk to 23 you, and you hadn't got back to me. You were -- when I 24 called your number, you were at prayer meeting, and your wife 25 answered the phone and I left a message with her, and you 12-12-11 8 1 haven't got back to me. I see that as an insult, Mr. Oehler. 2 Mr. Letz here, I tried to talk to him several times, and he 3 chose to ignore me. And Mr. Overby, when he first was 4 appointed, I called and made an appointment to visit with 5 him. When I got here, he was out to lunch. And -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Baldwin. 7 MR. BITNER: -- Baldwin. Buster, you stated four 8 years ago that if you could be elected one more term, that 9 you were going to hang it up, go home and watch your TV and 10 play with your dog. You're signed up again. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My dog died. Got to have 12 something to do. 13 MR. BITNER: Well, maybe it was the wrong deal 14 there. But, gentlemen, I've been here for 30 years, and I've 15 had quite an experience. I -- I didn't come here to get 16 involved in politics. I come to retire, enjoy life. I 17 purchased property. I've been a taxpayer. I was informed by 18 a neighbor that I was the highest appraised property in Kerr 19 County, and I've been paying taxes on that for 10 years. I 20 checked it out; they were right. I tried to get it corrected 21 through the appraisal board and everything, and the chief 22 appraiser's name was David Oehlers. I was treated very 23 rudely and whatever. I have eventually got that taken care 24 of. 25 I -- my next encounter was with court of law. Mr. 12-12-11 9 1 -- County Court at Law Judge, what's his name? Whatever his 2 name is -- I'll come up with it here in just a minute -- 3 Spencer Brown. I entrusted some bond money to Mr. Brown, and 4 he disposed of it unlawfully. That's a felony. And I have 5 tried to get every elected official, and I have contacted 6 every elected official to try to get some representations and 7 some answers. All I've got is ignored. And here is the 8 documentation on it. But he -- he dispensed -- he paid my 9 attorney, is what he done. He made awards that never existed 10 and never accounted for it. That's against the law. I have 11 appealed to Mr. -- Mr. Judge Ables, just to get blown off and 12 ignored. I finally got two statements from Mr. Ables. One 13 is, "Well, Spencer does things differently." Yeah, he's got 14 a long, documented history of doing things differently. He's 15 been arrested and jailed numerous times as an assaulting, 16 abusive, threatening, barroom-fighting drunk. I wasn't aware 17 of that when I went in his court. If I had have been, I 18 would have refused it. 19 Then we've got another judge that's just 20 tuck-tailed and run that was using our confiscated money and 21 everything for pleasure trips to Hawaii and wherever. He has 22 resigned, and our new district judge, Mr. Williams, give him 23 only a slap on the wrist and says, "Naughty, naughty. Don't 24 get caught at that again." We had a -- a gentleman with the 25 fire department that had his hand in the till, but our judge 12-12-11 10 1 give him a harsher sentence for a few dollars than 2 Mr. Williams give our district judge for mishandling or 3 stealing thousands of dollars, and I -- I have a problem with 4 that. I think it's selective law enforcement, and it's 5 certainly not law enforcement. I've appealed to Rick Perry. 6 I've appealed to George Bush. I've appealed to Lamar Smith. 7 I was amused at Lamar Smith the other day. He was before 8 this hearing in Congress, or whatever they're doing there in 9 Washington, D.C., about the Attorney General, and my comment 10 from Mr. Smith was, "Well, I got no power. I can't do 11 anything; I got no power." I just wondered what Mr. Smith 12 would have thought if the Attorney General had leaned back in 13 his chair and said, "I got no power. I can't do anything." 14 I don't think he'd have been too impressed. I wasn't either. 15 I'm very disappointed. 16 Now, Mr. Baldwin, you've been up before the grand 17 jury on a theft charge. You got no-billed. O.J. Simpson was 18 in a -- a jury trial; he got no-billed. And we've just had a 19 little lady in Florida that got no-billed on a murder charge. 20 I question our -- our government. I question our courts. 21 I've got a lot of articles and things, but I have appealed to 22 every elected official from you local yokels all the way to 23 George W. Bush. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison wanted to be 24 governor, and she blew me off with, "Unfortunately, this is 25 not one which Senator" -- or "complaint that Senator 12-12-11 11 1 Hutchison can be of assistance, but if you ever need any 2 help, let me know." On a national level. "But I'm just so 3 busy here with Bill Clinton and his kind that I don't have 4 time to talk to you." I was Rick Perry's county campaign 5 chairman when he first run for state office. I worked for 6 him. I campaigned for him. I voted for him. And I called 7 on him, and he ignores me; he blows me off. I've got a 8 problem with that. He's taking my tax dollars for his 9 service, and he has held hisself out, taken an oath to uphold 10 the law. But his -- his run for president is kind of showing 11 who the real Rick Perry is, and the people are seeing through 12 him pretty fast. 13 I don't know what it would take to get an elected 14 official to do their job. I have appealed to all of them, 15 and no one, not one of you -- and, Mr. Tinley, I've even 16 taken with you me when I went down here and visited with -- 17 not the county -- well, the County Attorney, I guess. And 18 now he is a district judge, an appointee, but both of you 19 ignored my complaint. You know, we have Barbara Nemec that 20 was our County Treasurer. She couldn't be accountable with 21 our money. And I -- I've never seen any punishment. I've 22 never seen any follow-up. It's been cover up and cover up. 23 "Let me get my crony in here." But here is a list of where 24 I've been, what I've done, and the responses I've got from my 25 elected officials. I've got a problem with it. And I don't 12-12-11 12 1 know of an elected official today that I trust or respect, 2 you five included. Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. As a matter of 4 personal privilege, is there any member of the Court that 5 wishes to respond, inasmuch as there were personal remarks 6 made to them, at this time? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care to; thank you, 8 Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Anyone else that 11 wishes to be heard with regard to any matter which is not a 12 listed agenda item? Anyone else? Seeing no one else coming 13 forward, we will move on. Commissioner Overby, do you have 14 anything for us today? 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, not at this time. 16 Just a lot of things going on in Precinct 2, but nothing 17 right now I just want to report on, but a lot of good times 18 with, you know, the Christmas season, and a lot of 19 activities. So, very busy. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just happy with all the rain 22 we've been getting. That's it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second that. But the -- 24 we lost another one of our elder Precinct 4 wonderful people. 25 Mary Dowdy passed away last Friday, Dee Marino's mother, and 12-12-11 13 1 she will be very missed. She was a gracious lady and hard 2 worker, and she just loves everybody, and great person. Her 3 services, I think, are going to be tomorrow. Tomorrow at 4 2:00, I believe. Anyway, I just wanted to make mention of 5 her. She was a special lady. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. I just 10 wanted to remind you that I have a grandson that plays 11 football over at Wimberley, Texas, and I knew you'd forget 12 that. And that -- you all probably didn't sleep all weekend 13 wanting to know what happened with their football game, but 14 I'm here to tell you. I know you didn't expect that. But 15 Thursday, Deb and I will go over to Wimberley to the big pep 16 rally, and then Friday we go to Dallas Cowboys stadium for 17 the state championship. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You talk about fun. That -- 20 that bunch over there is a fun -- for a small little school, 21 and -- and the community coming together, oh my gosh, I've 22 never seen anything like that. Anyway, we're going to -- 23 what did you call it? Jerry's world? 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Jerry's world. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jerry's world. 12-12-11 14 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There you go. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I have. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Congratulations. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have in my hands an award, 2011 7 Five Star award that is issued by the Department of State 8 Health Services for excellence in vital statistics, document 9 processing, and so forth, dealing primarily in birth and 10 death records. The award is issued to the Kerr County Clerk. 11 If any of you have been in the clerk's office, they're on -- 12 if you're standing at the counter, if you'll look up to your 13 left, you'll see a wall covered with these awards. This is 14 the 13th award that the County Clerk's office has received, 15 and I assure you, they don't go to every county in the state. 16 There's a pretty rigorous set of guidelines that they utilize 17 in determining who is eligible for these awards, and the 18 County Clerk has been a recipient of these on a regular 19 basis. Like I say, this is the 13th. I don't know how many 20 years they've been given; I suspect it's not many more than 21 13. Do either one of you gals know how long they've been 22 giving this award? 23 MS. THOMPSON: Not sure. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know of a year that you 25 missed? 12-12-11 15 1 MS. PIEPER: There was a couple years prior to 2 that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. PIEPER: Under the previous clerk. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's -- it gives me pleasure to 6 present to our County Clerk and her chief deputy here that 7 award from the Texas Department of State Health Services for 8 their fine work in vital statistics. 9 (Applause.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move on. Item Number 1 11 is a 9 o'clock timed item; to consider, discuss, take 12 appropriate action on presentation of the airport fiscal year 13 2012 budget. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before you go to the 15 Airport Board, let me make a brief comment. This is kind of 16 an odd thing why we're doing this right now. I just want to 17 explain. The Airport Board presented a budget like the 18 interlocal agreement requires last spring; April or May, 19 something like that. And during that period, the City and 20 the County were negotiating a new agreement at the airport. 21 Well, in that new agreement, the budget amount, a lump sum 22 item was approved by the City and the County that was 23 different than their budget they had presented originally. 24 And it was felt by the Airport Board, and I certainly agree, 25 that the proper way, you know, is for them to basically 12-12-11 16 1 resubmit the board -- 'cause we're not the ones that do the 2 board; the City are the ones that do the board -- Airport 3 Board responsibility. So they're presenting, kind of after 4 the fact, a new budget that has a total with what was 5 approved in our interlocal agreement. Basically, that's why 6 we're doing it now, as opposed to what the interlocal 7 agreement says, in the spring. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The earlier budget, the total bottom 9 line was a different amount than what was approved, and this 10 new budget conforms to the total bottom line in the new 11 interlocal agreement? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. MOSER: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. I'm 15 Tom Moser, vice president of the -- of the board. It's my 16 pleasure to present this budget to you today. As 17 Commissioner Letz said, it's a little bit out of sequence, 18 the way it's supposed to go, but that being what it is, all 19 parties came together and I think that we're proud of what 20 we've done. What we did is we stepped back and we had a 21 couple workshops on establishing this budget. And what I'm 22 going to present to you today -- and Bruce McKenzie, the 23 Airport Manager, is here to discuss any level of detail on 24 any item that you'd care to. This -- this board went through 25 every single line item. We -- we took a knife to it. We've 12-12-11 17 1 cut it back significantly. It's a 20 percent reduction in 2 what we had last year. And last year our budget was 532,000; 3 this budget we're submitting is 433,000, so a $100,000 4 reduction. 5 We have some things which are at risk here. We 6 have very little contingency in this budget. We think we can 7 make it happen. We -- we came in last year at the end of the 8 year less than what our budget request was. So, we stay on 9 top of it, and with Bruce being out there every day, we've 10 been able to do that, and be airport of the year out of 182 11 airports in the state of Texas, so we're pretty proud of what 12 we've done. There's some things that we have -- there is 13 also a line item in this budget of about $10,000. We want to 14 do some preliminary engineering to go the next step in 15 establishing implementation of the master plan, which we have 16 submitted to you, which has been created over a nine-month 17 period of how to develop the entire airport. Our objective 18 is to have that as a revenue-neutral airport. Some people 19 don't believe that we can do that. I'm here to tell you, we 20 can do it. We will make that airport so that there is no 21 taxpayer money involved. 22 The other thing that I'd like to make a point of is 23 part of our master plan was to look at what the economic 24 value is of that airport. And their estimate -- and we 25 haven't scrubbed these numbers, but just the outside 12-12-11 18 1 assessment of that is $20 million per year revenue to the -- 2 to the county. I mean, that's, you know, appraisals -- I 3 mean, ad valorem taxes, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think 4 that Commissioner Letz, Commissioner Overby have been in our 5 workshop. The City has been in our workshop. Jeannie has 6 been in the workshop with us. So, instead of going through 7 each detail, I will just submit this to you, the package 8 which you have, and would open it up to any questions that 9 you might have. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any questions for 11 Mr. Moser? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a general comment, that I 13 think they've done a great job with the budget again. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it's a -- I make a 16 motion that we approve the budget. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. And, 18 again, just say to Tom, appreciate everything that the 19 independent board -- I know you guys are working 20 exceptionally hard. Bruce, all the work that you're doing. 21 I'll second that motion, Commissioner Letz. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 23 Question or discussion? Mr. Moser, Mr. McKenzie, I would -- 24 some of these folks in here don't realize the significance of 25 the Kerrville/Kerr County Municipal Airport being chosen as 12-12-11 19 1 the general aviation airport of the year earlier this year by 2 TexDOT, which is -- they have a full aviation division. As 3 Mr. Moser said, out of 180-plus general aviation airports, 4 this one was chosen. I attribute that directly to the fact 5 that we have an excellent board -- independent board which 6 concentrates solely on the airport, and those efforts, 7 obviously, paid off on all of their work. I wish all the 8 members of the board were able to be here this morning so 9 that they could be recognized. But it's a five-member board, 10 and they've done excellent work out there, and that's what I 11 attribute that award to, is their fine work. We appreciate 12 it, Mr. Moser. 13 MR. MOSER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 15 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We have 21 another 9 o'clock timed item, a presentation regarding the 22 San Antonio Food Bank. The agenda indicates that Mr. Eric 23 Cooper, the president/C.E.O. of San Antonio Food Bank is here 24 with us. 25 MR. COOPER: Yes, sir. Thank you, Judge, 12-12-11 20 1 Commissioners. It's a privilege to be out here this morning. 2 And, first of all, I just want to thank y'all for your 3 service. Really do appreciate you guys. You know, we use a 4 lot of volunteers at the food bank. One of them is 83 years 5 old. When he comes in, he sorts some canned goods and then 6 he leaves, but before he leaves, he tells a joke or two. 7 Most of the jokes he shares are pretty inappropriate, and not 8 to be repeated. (Laughter.) But one time he -- he asked 9 me -- he says, "What does volunteering and wetting your pants 10 have in common?" Well, I got nervous, but he says, 11 "Everybody sees you doing it, but only you get the warm 12 feeling." (Laughter.) Which I thought maybe, this morning, 13 you could appreciate that. 14 So, the San Antonio Food Bank is probably -- 15 probably one of the most misunderstood nonprofits. Most 16 people have heard of us, but they really don't know the 17 detail of what we do, so I thought I'd share with you a 18 little bit about that, and a little bit then about the need 19 right here in your community. Joining me this morning is 20 Mario Obledo; he's on our staff, and Megan DeMers, who's 21 behind me. The food bank has a 16-county service territory. 22 We are -- we are one of the 19 "Feeding America" food banks 23 in the state of Texas. So, this light pink area is our 24 service territory, and the last 30 years we've been serving 25 here in Kerr County. What we do is, there's about 525 12-12-11 21 1 independent nonprofits that withdraw from the food bank food 2 and grocery products that they need to serve the families 3 that they're providing food to, and there's about a dozen of 4 our 525 nonprofits right here in Kerr County, so great 5 organizations like the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, the 6 Salvation Army, CAM. 7 You know, these agencies -- there's 525 throughout 8 those 16 counties -- four years ago were feeding about 25,000 9 people each week. At the start of the recession back in '09, 10 we boosted that to 58,000 people a week, and that is what the 11 current demand is on us, is -- is the demand of providing 12 food for 58,000. We literally collect food from the field to 13 the dinner table. You'll see the food bank -- we've got a 14 produce shed down in Frio County and Pearsall; we're working 15 with farmers and growers. We work with food manufacturers, 16 wholesalers. We also work with great grocery retailers. I 17 can't say enough about our partnership with H.E.B. But 18 Walmart, Target, Sam's Club, pretty much every food industry 19 partner, even restaurants, hotels, and places that prepare 20 food to be eaten and it's not, will rescue those leftovers 21 and deliver those to our partner agencies, along with working 22 with municipalities on game. We do several hundred head of 23 deer, kind of in a "waste not, want not" philosophy. 24 So, you know where we get the food from. You know 25 now where it goes. In front of you is some statistics on -- 12-12-11 22 1 on the need. This -- this green brochure highlights really 2 the people in poverty and some of the barriers that they 3 have. It documents the 58,000 that we feed each week. And 4 then in addition to that, you've got some -- some data that 5 just kind of shows how Kerr County benchmarks with the state 6 of Texas. And you can access all this information on our 7 website at safoodbank.org. But in the state of Texas, the 8 food insecurity rate, which is kind of government-speak for 9 those that are going hungry, Texas has about a 17.8 percent 10 food insecurity rate. If you look at Kerr County, it's a 11 little bit better off than the state average at 15.4 percent, 12 or about 7,200 folks here in the county. The next document 13 that you've got just kind of looks at a deeper dive at kids, 14 and the childhood food insecurity rate is about 28 percent 15 statewide, and just a little bit less, 27.7 percent food 16 insecurity rate for kids here in Kerr County. 17 So, you've got some data there basically to tell 18 you what I know you all know; there's some folks that are 19 really struggling. And -- and so we're doing all that we 20 can. We're delivering to the county several millions of 21 dollars in food, but we can't do it alone. We're encouraging 22 others to reach out and support us and support the local 23 nonprofits that are helping to feed the citizens. More than 24 half -- and you'll see this in this document here; more than 25 half of the folks that are needing help are working. 12-12-11 23 1 Sometimes I think folks think it's folks that are unemployed, 2 but most of them are working. And there's a significant 3 amount -- about a quarter of them are seniors, and another 4 quarter that are kids. 5 In wrapping up, I just wanted to share a quick 6 experience I had. We've got a program in San Antonio called 7 Project HOPE; it's the senior food box program. We have 8 about 14,000 seniors that each month get a food box. Well, 9 one of the seniors called the food bank and wanted to talk to 10 me, and was pretty persistent about that. I know you guys 11 get those calls sometimes. Usually it's when you've screwed 12 up and someone wants to give you an earful. So, I was -- I 13 was waiting to get the earful, and she said, "Mr. Cooper, I 14 just want to ask you one question." That was, "How did you 15 know it was my birthday?" And I said, "Ma'am, I really don't 16 know who you are, but -- but happy birthday to you." And she 17 said, "Well, I'm just about to turn 90." And she said every 18 month she gets a food box, and she wanted to say thanks for 19 that, because she struggles to pay for her medicines and all 20 of her costs and buy food. But in her food box that day, she 21 happened to get a birthday cake. Now, that was one of the 22 volunteers at the agency that obviously knew it was her 23 birthday. 24 But as I thought about that cake, and so many of 25 the things that are donated -- we pick up day-old cakes at 12-12-11 24 1 H.E.B. and Walmart, and they're in those little plastic 2 containers, and sometimes they bounce around in the back of 3 the truck, and frosting gets all around and inside of that 4 container. And usually the reason why we're getting them is 5 maybe they misspelled someone's name in the frosting or 6 something like that. You know, "Happy Birthday, Guido" or 7 something on there. You know, but to this woman that was 8 turning 90, to get a birthday cake, it was everything. She 9 didn't have any family, and she mentioned that she was going 10 to cut off a slice of that cake and celebrate that night, and 11 then put the rest of the cake in the freezer so that it would 12 last. But when she hung up, she just said, "God bless you 13 for who you are and what you do." And I just want to -- I 14 want to duck and let those blessings hit you all. God bless 15 you for who you are and what you do to serve this community. 16 Let us not forget that there is a tremendous need amongst the 17 poor with that basic element of life, and that's food, and it 18 is a privilege to serve them. And so we'll be following up 19 with you to reach out to figure out how we can better partner 20 together to better serve the citizens here in Kerr County. 21 But thank you. Are there any questions? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Cooper? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just have one question. Can 24 you go over again some of the partners in Kerr County? 25 MR. COOPER: You bet. There's about 12. Salvation 12-12-11 25 1 Army, and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, CAM, Kerrville, 2 United Christian, Junction House, K'Star, Inc., A Child's 3 Place Learning Center, Pathways 3H Wilderness Home, Happy 4 Jack's Learning Center, Camp Children Reaching, and the First 5 United Methodist Church. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, thank you. 7 MR. COOPER: So those are -- so they're -- they're 8 independent organizations, and then they'll withdraw from the 9 food bank, some on a weekly basis. Some might be a little 10 bit less than that. And then our trucks are coming up here 11 delivering on -- on an augmented basis to get them the food 12 and grocery products that they need. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Can you give us a copy of 14 that list? I'd like to have a copy of those folks that are 15 doing that. Again, thanks, Mr. Cooper. Thanks for 16 everything that the food bank does and working with our 17 agencies here in our community. I think the numbers that you 18 shine -- shined the light on here today are problems that we 19 often in Kerr County forget about, the 73 percent of the 20 folks that are eligible for free or reduced lunches in our 21 schools. And I think your message, again, there's a lot of 22 people -- a lot of poor people out there that need help. And 23 I appreciate you coming, giving that report today. 24 MR. COOPER: Thank you, Commissioners. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Thank you for what 12-12-11 26 1 you do, sir. Appreciate you being here today. 2 MR. COOPER: All right, thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to our next 9 o'clock timed 4 item, Item 3; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 5 for final approval of the private road name of Saralee Trail 6 West, and located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Thank you, Judge. Tilford 8 and Linda Carpenter own 25.44 acres out of the original Ned 9 Lea Ranch property. The Carpenters would like to name a 10 private road that leads to their property. Proposed road 11 name is Saralee Trail West. This road has never been named. 12 There are two other properties, and they have -- that is the 13 Carpenters and Mr. Scott, and he has signed that 911 14 application indicating that he supports the proposed road 15 name change. So, at this time, we ask the Court for their 16 final approval of the proposed private road name of Saralee 17 Trail West, Precinct 4. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 22 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 12-12-11 27 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Our 9:05 2 timed item, Number 4; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 3 action to drop the existing private road name of Dale Durst 4 Road West, and to rename the private road Scott Ranch Road 5 West, same being located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Scott owns almost the 7 section of land here where the existing private road of Dale 8 Durst Road West is. Mr. Scott would like to drop the 9 existing road name and rename this private road Scott Ranch 10 Road West. The application has been filed and approved by 11 the 911 office, so at this time, I ask the Court to drop the 12 existing private road name of Dale Durst Road West and to 13 rename this same private road Scott Ranch Road West, 14 Precinct 4. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 24 to our 9:10 timed item, Item 5; consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action for the final approval concerning revision 12-12-11 28 1 of plat for Lots 1A and 1B in Block 7 of the Village West 2 Industrial Park, Phase Two, Section Two, as set forth in 3 Volume 5, Page 245, Plat Records, and being located in 4 Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Back in October, Commissioner 6 Oehler requested review of the preliminary plat for the 7 revision of Lots 1A and 1B, Block 7 of the Village West 8 Industrial Park. The owner of said property is Village West 9 Properties, L.L.C. Mr. Walters has been working with 10 O.S.S.F. We have worked that out. We have the paper from 11 O.S.S.F. for the acceptance of this cul-de-sac. The 12 financial guarantee is in this package, Number 201110 from 13 Hill Country State Bank in the amount of 45,000. The 14 expiration date on the letter of credit is June the 5th, 15 2012. We have -- we have gotten that written confirmation 16 from O.S.S.F.; everything's okay. So, at this time, we ask 17 the Court to accept the Letter of Credit Number 201110 in the 18 amount of $45,000, and for their final approval for the 19 revision of plat for Lots 1A and 1B, Block 7 of the Village 20 West Industrial Park, Phase Two, Section Two, Volume 5, Page 21 245, Precinct 4. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 12-12-11 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a -- a comment. And I've 2 got -- I think I saw Mr. Voelkel out in the audience. I 3 believe it should be "revision," not "replat." 4 MR. DON VOELKEL: Pardon me? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably revision of plat, not 6 a replat. It's okay; don't worry about it. 7 MR. VOELKEL: I had one comment on that. Because 8 we're in the ETJ, we are also dealing with City of Kerrville. 9 The City of Kerrville will not accept "revision of plat," so 10 that's why we have "replat." 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- you got me on that. 12 We'll certainly let -- we'll go along with the City of 13 Kerrville. We don't want to cause any problems with our good 14 friends down the street. 15 MR. DON VOELKEL: I like "revision" myself. Thank 16 you. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That explains that. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mr. Odom, on the information 19 here, is the little square in there, that Lot 2, is that the 20 well of the industrial park? 21 MR. ODOM: This is the well for the -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: For the whole park, correct? 23 MR. ODOM: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, has this gone -- I 12-12-11 30 1 know it's gone through the city process. Has it been 2 approved by the City, or do they want -- 3 MR. ODOM: They want us to approve it, then we'll 4 go from there. They have basically looked at it in their 5 zoning, so they don't have a problem. They want us to -- I'm 6 going to inspect it. So, the only problem I see -- and I was 7 telling the developer here that this time of year, it is very 8 difficult to put down sealcoat, and I don't know if it'll 9 stay. So, my thought is we will get to that point maybe late 10 January, maybe middle of February when it starts to warm up a 11 little bit. You know, I'm surprised that the weather has 12 jumped on us like it has. And I thought we'd be in a 13 drought, and we're having rain. Which is good, but that's 14 not the plan for everything. So, it makes it difficult to do 15 a sealcoat and get it complete. They have one year, so we 16 may get it in. So the individual can move their commercial 17 entity in there, and it -- I don't know when we'll get it 18 sealcoated. I just don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I imagine whenever the time 20 is right. 21 MR. ODOM: Well, it will be spring or summer 22 sometime; they'll have to come back in. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just have to be that way. 24 MR. ODOM: That's it. I just wanted to explain to 25 the Court, I may not come in for a while until it's finished. 12-12-11 31 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, just for the record, 2 this is commercial, not residential. 3 MR. ODOM: This is commercial, so we take it on a 4 case-by-case basis. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But more importantly, I just 6 wanted to make sure it's clear, it's not subject to the model 7 subdivision rules. 8 MR. ODOM: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wanted to make sure that's on 10 the record. 11 MR. ODOM: That's right. It's an exception -- take 12 it case by case, and this is an exception due to the time of 13 the year. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 21 Mr. Odom. 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now go to Item 6, our 9:15 24 timed item, a presentation regarding the Baptist Child and 25 Family Services Youth Build program. Ms. Kathleen Maxwell. 12-12-11 32 1 MS. MAXWELL: Yes. Well, I don't have a funny joke 2 to tell, but I did go to high school with Guy Overby, and 3 I've got numerous stories that I could share. (Laughter.) 4 But in order to preserve him and our relationship, I will not 5 comment further. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could I talk to you later? 8 MS. MAXWELL: Yeah, you could talk to me later. 9 Commissioners, Judge, it's an honor to be here and let you 10 all know about our young people who participate in something 11 new in our community. I'm here today to represent B.C.F.S. 12 Youth Build. And B.C.F.S. Youth Build -- Youth Build is a 13 program that is a part of B.C.F.S. Human Services, and Youth 14 Build is new to the Kerrville area. There are 278 Youth 15 Builds in the United States, and we're one of them. And our 16 young people are young people that are working on their high 17 school education, working on their G.E.D. We've actually had 18 eight of them that have already gone through the first round 19 of testing, and we feel very confident. Half of the day they 20 work on their G.E.D.; the other half we work -- we partner 21 with Habitat for Humanity, and they're working on building a 22 house, and we're teaching them community service. I would 23 like for all the Youth Build young people to stand up, 24 please, and acknowledge them. I'm very proud of them. 25 (Applause.) 12-12-11 33 1 MS. MAXWELL: Thank you. And I'd also like to 2 acknowledge the staff. I'm just one of six. I'm the 3 education and employment specialist. And Mr. Noah Diggs, if 4 you'll stand; he's our G.E.D. instructor. Eddy Byrom is our 5 construction manager, and Keith Scoonmaker is the assistant 6 case manager, and leader Kimber Falkinburg couldn't be with 7 us today. (Applause.) One of the things we're trying to 8 work with the young people on is developing leadership 9 skills, and looking for ways that we can serve our community 10 and give back. And it's just an honor and a privilege to get 11 to teach them today just about their local government, and to 12 watch them as they are striving for a new way of life, which 13 isn't an easy task, I can attest to. But they are making 14 positive steps. Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any questions for 17 Ms. Maxwell? We may not let you off too easy. Thank you for 18 being here. We appreciate you and the program that you're 19 involved in. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, guys. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to our 9:30 timed item, 25 Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 12-12-11 34 1 complaint from Mr. Mike Trainum regarding the Veterans 2 Administration hospital. Mr. Trainum? 3 MR. TRAINUM: First off, I'd like to thank all of 4 you for serving. It's not always a pretty process. The 5 political process is sometimes very rough to deal with 6 emotionally and all that, because I've dealt with people 7 before, and it's a hard job to have. And it's hard to run; 8 it's hard to put up with all the people that are mad about 9 whatever issue, and it's just a tough process sometimes. 10 Okay. I'd like some help from you guys to actually help put 11 pressure on the V.A. All politics starts in the local level. 12 You know, I used to not believe that, but it does. So, you 13 guys actually have a lot to say of what even goes on 14 nationally, if you're willing to put the pressure on the 15 areas that need to happen. And the other thing we need is to 16 find out what percentage of the population are actually 17 veterans, and how many actually use the V.A. system out here, 18 and the reasons why veterans don't use the V.A. system. 19 I come from this area; I got back here after about 20 20 years. I was in the navy for a while, and then when I got 21 out, I stayed out there, because that was in the last 22 downturn. And, at any rate, the hospital they had out 23 there -- they had a hospital in the area. Out there, the 24 V.A. decided to close it for political reasons, and it became 25 a very bad V.A. system there after they did that. And 12-12-11 35 1 through political pressure starting at the local level, we 2 actually got it up to one of the top rated in the nation, and 3 it ended up being an outpatient clinic with extended care, 4 which is exactly what we got here. They still call it a 5 medical center, but it is not; it's an outpatient clinic with 6 extended care facility. So, that's what's gone on out here 7 in the past 20 years, is it went from a hospital down to a 8 facility that even had, you know, where people could go in, 9 get urgent care, even on the weekends, to only Monday through 10 Friday. So, that's where they have gone with that. 11 So, some of the other things that they're doing out 12 here is, they have told their employees that they cannot 13 complain. They cannot write letters. If they do, it's their 14 job. I've had several employees tell me that; not just one, 15 but several of them. And that's flat wrong. They're not 16 supposed to do that, but they're doing it anyway. So, we 17 need to kind of put pressure on the V.A. to stop doing that 18 kind of stuff with their employees, so when there's a 19 legitimate problem, they need -- we need to know about it as 20 a public, and, yeah, as a veteran, I need to know about it so 21 I can put pressure on them. But some of these employees are 22 even veterans themselves, and they've told them that. Some 23 of the other things that are going on out there is they're 24 doing what I call denial of service. When I was on vacation 25 out here visiting family and stuff one time, I had to fight 12-12-11 36 1 with them -- I had bronchitis going into pneumonia. I had to 2 fight with them for them to even see me. They finally agreed 3 to see me when I threatened them. And then the next time I 4 was out here on vacation, they refused to see me. I had to 5 call California; I had to tell them what was going on. They 6 had to do next-day air medications to me. That's flat out 7 wrong. We have a V.A. here that's supposed to serve all 8 veterans, regardless of where they live. 9 What's going on now with the V.A. system here is 10 they're still doing the denial of service, but they're doing 11 it in a different way. They're telling people, yeah, in the 12 primary care, we'll write a consult to a -- my mind went 13 blank there -- a specialist. And the administration comes 14 back and says no, they can't see them. And that's not V.A. 15 policy. The V.A. policy actually is if a consult is written, 16 they have to see you at least once within 30 days, and 17 they're not even doing that. Some appointments can be as far 18 out as 90 days, which is totally against V.A. policy, but 19 they're still doing it here. And part of that is because San 20 Antonio's getting all the money, and they're not sending it 21 here, because we're not complaining about it. San Antonio's 22 complaining. They got the higher politicians in there; they 23 got more people willing to complain. And V.A.'s that way, 24 and I don't know why. It should not be that way. They 25 should put the money where the veterans are and make sure 12-12-11 37 1 that the veterans are served. 2 I have had several cases myself of denial of 3 service, and we had to really fight hard to get them past 4 that with the primary care doctor. And I also had another 5 veteran that was in extreme pain and needed to get to the 6 pain clinic, and they started doing a different thing with 7 him. "Oh, you got to go to this clinic first," and then 8 it's -- so they go talk to that clinic, and it's, "No, you 9 got to go see the other clinic first." They were bouncing 10 between the two clinics; you got to see the other one first. 11 What's up with that? That can't continue. I mean, people 12 can die when you're doing that; they get so frustrated, they 13 can do all kinds of stuff when people are in severe pain. 14 But they're doing that consistently to people. And, you 15 know, the thing is, is this V.A. has the opportunity to even 16 be a great V.A. system, even if they don't go back to a full 17 hospital. 18 The V.A. clinic I was in where I was before, they 19 had urgent care. They had a day surgery there. They had 10 20 times the stuff they have at this facility here. They had 21 actually more in that clinic than most hospitals had for 22 clinics, specialty clinics and all that, and that was in an 23 outpatient clinic. So, what they're doing here is totally 24 wrong. Everything -- and I've talked to a lot of veterans 25 who say, "Well, I just don't even bother going to Kerrville. 12-12-11 38 1 I live in the area, but I don't even bother; I just go to San 2 Antonio. They're going to send me there anyway." So, we 3 have an issue with the way the V.A. is run here. And as the 4 local government here, we can put pressure on the powers that 5 be out even in the V.A. system, and with the other government 6 agencies, other government elected officials, to get some of 7 the issues solved. And that's all I got for you today. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Trainum, as I was trying 9 to tell you on the phone a few days ago when we discussed 10 this, that in the last 10 years or so, I -- we've seen our 11 United States Congressmen, United States Senators -- there 12 are several local retired generals that have approached and 13 tried to do the things that you've laid out before us today. 14 I, for one -- if you'll give me a specific job to do, I'd be 15 happy to do it, but I think the -- the federal route is 16 really the way to go. I mean, they -- they're not going to 17 listen to us, but I'll sure be happy to try. 18 MR. TRAINUM: I think -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you need to be specific. 20 What do you want me to do? 21 MR. TRAINUM: I think what we can do as a 22 government body here is make the calls, find out the 23 population we actually have in the area, the number of 24 veterans we have. If it's even by an informational deal on 25 the upcoming ballot to ask people, "Are you a veteran, and do 12-12-11 39 1 you use the V.A. system?" And that's been done in other 2 jurisdictions to find out how many veterans are actually in 3 the area. Because a lot of veterans, when they get out, they 4 don't want to talk to anybody. They don't want to do 5 anything that's with the government or anything, because 6 they've had such a bad experience. And that's important. 7 And then just let the Congress people and the State 8 Legislature know that, hey, you're concerned about this 9 issue, and you want it addressed. Make those phone calls. 10 And that's, I think, the two things that we can do on a local 11 level, other than the local citizens actually getting 12 involved and calling too and doing the letters, constantly 13 keeping pressure on them. 14 It doesn't happen overnight. It takes a lot of 15 pressure out from all the people; not just the veterans, but 16 from the local community and the local politicians to get 17 anywhere on that. 'Cause I've been through this process 18 before. Usually, when the government -- federal government 19 says, "Oh, we're not going to do this any more," they want 20 people to give up and not write those letters, and not 21 complain and not put pressure on the V.A. system itself. 22 Because one thing I do know about the administration part -- 23 and I'm not saying that the employees that work with the 24 veterans are bad, because a lot of them were very, very good 25 and they want to help the veterans. It's the administration 12-12-11 40 1 problem. And when an administrator gets a lot of complaints, 2 they get concerned about their job and their advancement 3 possibilities. And don't ask me why that works with the 4 federal government, -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to. 6 MR. TRAINUM: -- but it's very much so. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mr. Trainum, I'd like to make 8 a comment. First of all, I'd just like to say, first of all, 9 thank you for your service, for serving our country when you 10 were in the military, and thank you for your comments today. 11 Just a couple of quick comments. You asked about our area. 12 And I agree with, you know, what Commissioner Baldwin said 13 about the local efforts over the last 10 years. Just a 14 couple of other things for you to follow up on, if you 15 haven't, that might be good for your information, getting to 16 learn a little bit more about our local V.A. You might want 17 to make a visit with Robin Gutierrez, who's the administrator 18 at the local V.A. here, who does a good job. Our Hill 19 Country Veterans group meets on a monthly deal up at the 20 Chamber of Commerce. I know they would welcome you to come 21 and -- and give some comments as far as your concerns. I 22 know that -- that we have a lot of groups that -- 23 Commissioner Baldwin talked about some of the generals that 24 are involved in that process. They're there; they would love 25 to hear your kind of comments. Kerr County and the Hill 12-12-11 41 1 Country area serves 8,500 veterans that live in the Hill 2 Country area, so there's a lot of folks kind of in the area 3 of what you're looking at. Our V.A. employs about 450 folks. 4 They do a wonderful job in the area. And just to kind of 5 give you a little information on that, and it might be also 6 good for you to go by and see Congressman Smith's office. 7 They have a local office here at Wells Fargo. 8 MR. TRAINUM: That's -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You might contact -- also 10 visit with our local economic development gentleman who heads 11 up our issues on our veterans and our programs as well. He's 12 at the Chamber as well, so those are just some things you 13 might follow up on. 14 MR. TRAINUM: I'll call -- follow up on the ones 15 that I can, and then the other one is just asking for some 16 support and to kind of keep the pressure up on your end, 17 because I know how the V.A. works. I've been through the 18 process of them dismantling a facility before, and the only 19 thing that changed the process -- they were going to totally 20 eliminate the -- even the clinic there, and that may be the 21 process they're using here. The first thing they do is start 22 doing that denial of service and shifting people to other 23 facilities, and that's usually the process that they go in 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Trainum, I might make a 12-12-11 42 1 comment as well; that we have -- this Court and the local 2 community has fought hard to even keep this hospital open in 3 Kerrville. 4 MR. TRAINUM: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was on the chopping block 6 five or six years ago, and a lot of efforts went into it. 7 I'm sure your aware we're under the San Antonio -- 8 MR. TRAINUM: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- hospital as well. 10 MR. TRAINUM: That's the problem. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the problem, but that 12 is what it is. But I think what we could do is, at our next 13 agenda, we can put together a resolution about the importance 14 of the V.A., and then we can get that to Congressman Smith. 15 We've done these things before, just to kind of get the ball 16 rolling. At least get it to -- I'm not sure -- I think it 17 was Mr. Coronado that used to be the head of the V.A. 18 Hospital. He's gone, I'm sure. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 20 MR. TRAINUM: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't stay around that 22 long. Whoever the head is at the San Antonio district or 23 region, we could get it to them, and just about the 24 importance of the V.A. to this community and to the veterans, 25 and give that to Congressman Smith and both senators as well. 12-12-11 43 1 MR. TRAINUM: Maybe send that also -- if you send 2 it to San Antonio, also send it to Waco, which is where 3 Division 21 is out of. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the kind of thing that 5 we can do, and it's probably good for us to keep that -- 6 almost to do that -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Annual. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on an almost annual basis, 9 because we do know that this hospital is under the gun, and I 10 think that San Antonio probably would like to close it if 11 they could. Just my personal feeling. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Trainum? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one, Mr. Trainum. 14 Are you a resident of California or Texas? 15 MR. TRAINUM: I am a resident of here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Welcome. 17 MR. TRAINUM: I finally got back after 20 years. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Welcome home. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 8, which is a 9:30 22 timed item; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 23 approve O.S.S.F. intergovernment -- intergovernmental or 24 interlocal amended agreements with the City of Kerrville, 25 that being Court Order 28605, and with the City of Ingram, 12-12-11 44 1 and that being Court Order 30043. The amended authorized 2 verbiage by the Court on 11-14-2011 is as follows: "This 3 order shall apply to all areas lying within Kerr County, 4 Texas, except for the areas regulated under an existing 5 order, ordinance, or resolution, and those areas under the 6 responsibilities of the corresponding T.C.E.Q. regional 7 office. The County will regulate O.S.S.F. matters in all 8 areas in the county without an existing order, ordinance, or 9 resolution, except for those areas under the responsibility 10 of the corresponding T.C.E.Q. regional office." Mr. Garcia? 11 MR. GARCIA: Yes. Good morning. This is the final 12 stage or the final step for approving the amendment. You 13 guys should have a copy of the affidavit for publication. We 14 need to get the approval. We'll send this to T.C.E.Q., our 15 local regional office, Region 13, and then we will be in 16 compliance. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ray, is there an area -- it 18 says those areas under responsibility of corresponding 19 T.C.E.Q. regional office. What does that mean? 20 MR. GARCIA: Anybody that falls under Region 13. I 21 mean, it's -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, something -- to 23 me, that just isn't -- isn't that something outside of your 24 jurisdiction? 25 MR. GARCIA: Right, that's not in our jurisdiction. 12-12-11 45 1 Excuse me. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Like Mo Ranch? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Like Mo Ranch or La Hacienda 4 or something like that. That's under the -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MR. GARCIA: It would still fall under our 7 jurisdiction when -- any type of nuisance condition or 8 whatever, but right now they're licensed through the state. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Licensed through the state 10 rather than through Kerr County. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In excess of 5,000 gallons a 14 day, I believe. 15 MR. GARCIA: Right, they're over 5,000 gallons a 16 day. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that a second? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sort of. Yeah, I'd like to 21 second the motion. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 23 for approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 24 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-12-11 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 4 Item 10, which is a 9:45 timed item; to consider, discuss, 5 take appropriate action to approve the purchase of one 2012 6 Ford 4-by-4 truck, 15,247.67, with trade-in of 2008 Ford 7 truck previously wrecked/repaired vehicle from current 8 contingency. Mr. Garcia? 9 MR. GARCIA: I have this on here. That was a 10 vehicle that was involved in a collision; it was rear-ended a 11 year and a half ago. That was my vehicle, 55 mile-an-hour 12 impact. It's starting -- we're starting to feel the effects 13 of it now in the -- the vehicle itself, so I figured this is 14 a good time to do the trade-in. You'll see there, we had 15 paid 17,000 for that vehicle new, and the trade-in value that 16 they're going to give us is $12,000 on that vehicle. So, 17 again, this is -- this is a pretty good deal, and it's one of 18 those deals I don't think we should pass up. But I have it 19 on there again. We'll try and get this thing traded before 20 we start having problems and losing more value in that 21 vehicle. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the one that you got 23 hammered from the rear out on 39, just on the other side of 24 the Ingram Dam? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 12-12-11 47 1 MR. GARCIA: Exactly. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got hit pretty hard. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this makes sense. I 5 move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval. Question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- the difference in the 10 funds coming out of contingency funds, or is that being 11 requested within your budget? 12 MR. GARCIA: I talked to the Auditor, Ms. Hargis, 13 and we discussed that, and if we can make it fit out of the 14 current contingency, we'll try to make that work. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then at the end of the 16 year, if there's a problem, you'll come back? 17 MR. GARCIA: Well, we were talking -- 18 MS. HARGIS: The $100,000 contingency. 19 MR. GARCIA: The county's. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The county's? Okay. I just 21 want to make sure I know which line item it's coming out of. 22 Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-12-11 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 11 is a 4 9:50 timed item; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 5 action to reallocate Grant Number 710065 remaining funds for 6 possible use outside colonia areas on various O.S.S.F. 7 wastewater projects. Commissioner Oehler and Mr. Garcia. 8 Who's going to start it? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I'll let Ray start off, 10 and then I will help him out if he needs help. 11 MR. GARCIA: We had discussed that earlier, looking 12 for other avenues -- let me back up. Okay, we have five 13 total applicants currently that are approved and have cleared 14 and made all the requirements for this grant, and we're 15 currently -- we're still active in trying to round up as many 16 people in those designated colonia areas that we had to see 17 if they'll qualify. Well, we're -- we keep running into a 18 dead end, again, and that's through no fault of the county. 19 We've been out there hitting the pavement and contacting by 20 phone, showing up at neighborhood watch meetings, to try to 21 get as many people as we can in those colonia areas to -- to 22 go in and apply. So, what we want to do now, we've got five 23 currently. We're hoping that when people see these five 24 systems go in, that they'll understand that the grant is 25 working, and they're going to get a new system replaced. But 12-12-11 49 1 what we need to do is, we need to start talking about what -- 2 any other projects in your precincts that we want to try to 3 utilize this money for. If we don't -- you know, I don't 4 want to do it last minute, and then we're trying to file for 5 extensions and whatnot with this grant money. But there's 6 some projects out there, and if you guys have certain 7 projects in your -- in your precincts, I think we should 8 start talking about it and putting them out there. Again, we 9 did talk to Grantworks; we kind of -- we let them -- we told 10 them that this was going to be on the agenda and that we were 11 going to start talking about it. We need to give them at 12 least some heads-up, or try to give them some direction on 13 who to ask and get permission to use on it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have -- you know, I 15 have one in my area that -- you know, I don't know if 16 nonprofits will qualify for this grant money or not, but it's 17 a shame if we can't -- we can't use it, being as it's been 18 allocated for those purposes. And I think most of -- 19 evidently, a lot of the ones that qualify have already been 20 signed up for it; mostly, I think, in Precinct 2. And, you 21 know, we have a nonprofit in Ingram, the Hill Country Arts 22 Foundation, who would like to hook up to the thing, and 23 they're a nonprofit 501(c)3, and I don't know if that money 24 can be used for that purpose or not, but I think we should 25 ask. 12-12-11 50 1 JUDGE TINLEY: How many -- how many additional 2 remediated systems is there indicated money for under this 3 grant program? 4 MR. GARCIA: We're supposed to have 30 systems. 5 And -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So we've got five, and so we've got 7 room for approximately -- 8 MR. GARCIA: 25. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 25 more. 10 MR. GARCIA: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's quite a few. 12 MR. GARCIA: It is. And, again, we've had open 13 sessions. We've scheduled sessions here, and we just don't 14 -- we're not getting the amount of people that we had 15 current -- initially that we had signed up. We had over -- 16 we met the requirement of 30 people to sign up. But they 17 didn't -- most of them didn't come back and apply. The other 18 ones that did apply did not qualify for one reason or 19 another. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner Oehler made a 21 comment, again, about nonprofit. I think it's smart to go 22 ahead and start thinking about what kind of planning in this 23 grant we could start looking at. Again, this is the grant 24 that was extended to October 1st. Remember, it was going to 25 expire June 30th; it's been extended to October 1st. I, 12-12-11 51 1 likewise, have a nonprofit in Precinct 2 that I know that 2 could -- you know, if they could be leveraged out. But, 3 again, I think the interest is, right now, these five that 4 are going to be participating the first of the year. I'd 5 like to see us continue to try to find out how many other 6 households that qualify, and hopefully the five that -- from 7 signing up, that people will see that they are eligible, that 8 they could get some help. But I think it's also smart to do 9 what you're talking about and start looking at the -- our 10 Grantworks through the C.D.B.G. to see what language can be 11 put in if we do a nonprofit, if we're eligible to do that. 12 But, obviously, spend all that money in Kerr County. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to ask. You 14 know, they can always tell us no. But, you know, if we just 15 say, "Well, they don't do it," without asking, I don't think 16 that's the way to approach it. And, you know, if we can't 17 get enough people signed up to qualify -- I'd sure hate to 18 see that money get turned back whenever there's a need for 19 it. Because, you know, from what I was told by the Arts 20 Foundation, it's going to cost, like, $25,000 to hook into 21 the wastewater line. That's quite a chunk of money for them; 22 for most nonprofits. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it needs to be done 25 because of the river. 12-12-11 52 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. It's right 2 there next to the river. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, we're talking -- I'm 4 reading here, you know, those -- most of the projects are 5 between Guy's and my precincts, out in the Kerrville South 6 area. We're designated colonia, correct? 7 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And the one we're 9 talking about today is -- it says outside colonia. 10 MR. GARCIA: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MR. GARCIA: Well, I -- I think I know -- I think I 13 know where you're coming from, Buster. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let me finish my 15 question now. I see your profit -- 16 MR. GARCIA: But the -- still working within the 17 colonia areas, but if there is -- if there are no other 18 projects or -- or any households in those colonia areas, 19 let's -- let's ask outside -- you know, outside of those 20 designated areas. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying they don't 22 have to be designated colonia area? They can just be -- 23 MR. GARCIA: Just anywhere in Kerr County. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think colonia takes first 25 priority on the thing. 12-12-11 53 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These words here, "outside 2 colonia." 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Outside. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they still have income 6 requirements of the -- of the recipients? 7 MR. GARCIA: Right. Yes, exactly. They still have 8 to meet whatever the requirements the grant does have applied 9 to them, but if they're not in the colonia area, they still, 10 you know, should meet the same type of -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So you -- do you just need to 13 proceed forward to find out if we're eligible to have 14 language in that? Is that what you're asking? 15 MR. GARCIA: What I would request is -- ask the 16 Court to direct me to get with Grantworks and start 17 discussing this, or -- or open it up so they can start asking 18 the questions for us. And as Commissioner Oehler said, you 19 know, if they're going to tell us no on certain, you know, 20 projects, then we'll move forward and ask on another one. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd make a motion that we 22 instruct Ray Garcia, Environmental Health Manager, to make 23 inquiry outside the colonias for various O.S.S.F. wastewater 24 projects. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 12-12-11 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially approving the agenda 2 item? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion and a second 5 as indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 12 Item 12, which is a 10 o'clock timed item; to consider -- 13 discuss, consider, and take appropriate action on 14 presentation regarding recent ground-breaking ceremonies on 15 the development of a new aquatic center planned for the 16 Children's Association for Maximum Potential facility in 17 Center Point. A video presentation will also be included in 18 the project report. Commissioner Overby. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Judge and 20 Commissioners. It's an honor today to present to you a real 21 exciting new ground-breaking ceremony, a new facility out at 22 Camp C.A.M.P. out in the Center Point area. Brandon, come on 23 down. I know you're going to be introducing Ben here in just 24 a moment, but there's a new facility that just had a 25 ground-breaking ceremony November 30th, and the board was 12-12-11 55 1 here, and I've asked Brandon and Ben to come and give a 2 presentation. And we'll have about a five-minute video on 3 this exciting new development going on at Camp C.A.M.P. in 4 Center Point. Go ahead, Brandon. 5 MR. BRIERY: All right. The video will give a 6 really good overview of what we're doing out there. Just to 7 give you a little background before we get to the video, we 8 serve over 1,000 children and adults with special needs every 9 year at Camp C.A.M.P. The majority of those campers come 10 throughout the summer, but we do work on the weekends. Guy 11 and his wife actually got to come out and visit a weekend 12 camp this past weekend, but we are able to do that because of 13 the generosity of our donors, which are both donors of 14 financial resources as well as time. We have over 500 youth 15 volunteers who participate in our programs every year, 16 starting at age 14. And we also have over 150 health care 17 volunteers; physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists, other 18 health professionals who make what we do possible so that we 19 can provide safe opportunities for our campers. But why 20 don't we go ahead and look at the video. You'll see more 21 about the exciting new things we're working on. 22 (Video presentation.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 24 MR. BRIERY: All right. So, you've gotten a little 25 bit of a window into some of the things we do at C.A.M.P., as 12-12-11 56 1 well as the aquatic center that we are working on now. We 2 did have our ground-breaking; we're moving forward with it. 3 My role is as camp director. My associate camp director, Ben 4 Elble, is also our aquatic center task force chair, and I'm 5 going to ask him to come up and just fill in a couple of 6 additional details that weren't included in the video, and 7 then we'll be happy to answer any questions that you have. 8 MR. ELBLE: A few things that we just didn't have 9 time to cover in that video is the thought that went into 10 this aquatic center. We started a master plan process about 11 six years ago to really look at all of the camp and the 12 community to see what was needed in this type of center. We 13 did a lot of research. We went to other camps; we talked to 14 a lot of different people. Some things that I wanted to 15 point out was that the American Red Cross here in Kerrville 16 really asked us to be sure we had a deep end in our pool, 17 because so many pools these days are not designed with a deep 18 end, and if there's not a deep end that's at least 7 feet 19 deep, you can't hold lifeguard trainings. We had already 20 thought about that and had included it in our plan. But we 21 plan to cooperate with the American Red Cross to be able to 22 offer lifeguard trainings at our facility. 23 Some other discussions we had locally were with the 24 Hill Country Texas Master Naturalists. They came to our 25 property and did an evaluation of our entire 55 acres, 12-12-11 57 1 because we wanted to be as environmentally friendly as 2 possible, and they were able to point out different plants 3 and trees that are really only available on our property any 4 more, because we've had areas in our property that haven't 5 been touched for many, many years, so that we have very 6 unique species. They were able to point those things out. 7 So, as we're looking at both the aquatic center and the 8 master plan, we're able to save those very unique pieces of 9 Kerr County. Lastly, we really designed a center that will 10 serve anyone. That is very unique, even in the industry that 11 we are in, being in the special needs camping industry. We 12 designed an aquatic center that anybody can use, and we're 13 very unique in that we serve such a broad spectrum of 14 children and adults. But anybody can walk in off the street 15 and use this facility, and I think that's probably the most 16 unique thing about it. 17 Brandon and I visit a lot of camps across the 18 country, and I know of no singular camp that has a facility 19 that can do everything this one does. So that -- this will 20 bring something very unique to the community as well. We 21 want to be able to use it as much for the community -- I've 22 had discussions with Center Point Independent School District 23 about using -- they've been going to different pools for 24 their end-of-the-year school parties -- about coming to us. 25 You know, because we're only a five-minute drive from the 12-12-11 58 1 school, so it's a lot easier for them to utilize, and anybody 2 will be able to use it. So, I'll be happy to answer any 3 questions about the facility itself, if anybody has any. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for these gentlemen? 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just wanted to make a 6 comment. In just visiting on the ground-breaking ceremony, 7 just for the Commissioners' information, the aquatic center 8 that they're building was about a $3 million project. Gordon 9 Hartman, as you all well know on this Court here, that he was 10 very involved with Morgan's Wonderland development in San 11 Antonio for his daughter. He was at the ground-breaking 12 ceremony, and I got to visit with a lot of their board 13 members, but Mr. Hartman was very instrumental in having 14 about a million and a half dollars of kind service given 15 towards this project. I know they have raised about 80 16 percent, from what I understand. They're still having some 17 other contributions that are in discussion. This is going to 18 be a state-of-the-art facility across our country. They said 19 they serve about 850 children yearly. 20 MR. BRIERY: In the summer, 850, and then over 21 1,000 throughout the year. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And through -- May through 23 August, they employ about 70 folks in our area, and they 24 reach out to a lot of folks, and it's an exciting project. 25 We're glad to have it in Kerr County. 12-12-11 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate y'all coming 3 today. I mean, I know where y'all are; I've been by many 4 times. I did not realize how large y'all were and how many 5 people you were serving. 6 MR. BRIERY: We'd love to have any of you come out 7 to visit while we have camps in session, or at any time. 8 MR. ELBLE: And we both live on the property. Our 9 facilities manager also lives there, so we're available to 10 give tours and -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What's your estimated 12 completion date? 13 MR. BRANHAM: May 1st is the absolute. We're 14 hoping to get it done a little earlier than that. 15 MR. ELBLE: If we get -- keep on getting weather 16 like this, it may put us behind. 17 MR. BRIERY: We like the weather. 18 MR. ELBLE: The rain is good, but when you're doing 19 a project that requires a lot of digging, it's not so good. 20 But, yes, we hope to be done -- our drop-dead date is May 21 1st. As of last week, we were on track to be done by the 22 middle of April. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We appreciate your 25 presentation. Let's go to Item 16; to consider, discuss, 12-12-11 60 1 take appropriate action concerning open investigator 2 position. Sheriff? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Gentlemen, you'll remember 4 back during the budget process, we lost three investigators. 5 This position is funded in this current budget. It was going 6 to be one of the three, and there were some discussions about 7 what type of position it was going to be, interdiction or 8 regular investigator. Well, the interdiction position has 9 fallen through, subject to taking a job in another county. 10 Okay, in looking at where I am on investigations, there's a 11 few stats that -- that I'd like for you to know, is that this 12 year, our criminal investigators -- not patrol, but just the 13 investigators -- cases that they have been investigating so 14 far have been 706, up from 679 last year. The sex offenders 15 that they're required to monitor every 30, 60, 90, or once a 16 year, is at 72 currently. The number of grand jury dates 17 being 24, I've had to have investigators at every single one 18 of them because of the number of cases. They have written 19 651 completed reports at this time. They're all carrying 20 caseloads of over 40 each. With this position that is 21 budgeted, and with the fact that we had actually lost three 22 investigators, I had told y'all back during the budget time 23 that either we'd let it go or I'd come back, and that's what 24 I'm here for. I would like to go ahead and fill this 25 investigator position with another investigator to help 12-12-11 61 1 relieve our current investigators and their on-duty, on-call 2 time, and the caseloads that they're -- they're having to 3 carry at this time. And that's all I'm asking with this, is 4 just to be able to fill the position that's in the budget. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not real clear why 6 you're asking the question, but -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of the comments that 8 we had made back during the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You giveth and you taketh 10 away? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, back during the deal, we 12 had talked about that it would possibly be an interdiction 13 type position that I would do, and I had made some comments 14 saying that if we didn't fill it with that interdiction type 15 position, I will probably not fill it. And I feel it's only 16 fair, even though it's in the budget and it's on my position 17 schedule, that because of the caseload, I really do need to 18 fill it with a regular investigator. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12-12-11 62 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 17; 3 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to declare five 4 vehicles surplus, and either trade in or possibly sell one or 5 more units to the City of Ingram and use the proceeds from 6 the sale to offset the purchase of the 2012 Chevrolet Tahoes. 7 Sheriff? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This was on the agenda last 9 time, and there were some legal issues that we all needed to 10 get the County Attorney to clear up on transferring or 11 selling a couple of these units to Ingram, because of their 12 needs, at about a dollar more than what the trade-in -- what 13 we were offered. The County Attorney has addressed that, 14 came back with a ruling on that. Ingram has addressed it 15 with their City Council. They would like to purchase two of 16 these vehicles at a dollar more than what -- what the 17 trade-in value was, and I am all for that and helping out 18 Ingram, and everything's been cleared that we can declare 19 them all surplus; then I can go ahead with the trade-in on 20 the new Tahoes and sell these to Ingram. Just asking for the 21 authority do that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're -- we declare them 23 surplus? Is that what you're asking to do? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This matter was on the agenda 25 previously. Did we declare them surplus at that time? 12-12-11 63 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we waited till we could 2 get a ruling from the County Attorney on everything. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, essentially -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what he's done. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you're asking for, 6 number one, declare them all surplus. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And authorize the sale of one or 9 more units to the City of Ingram, as you've indicated. And 10 then direct that the sale proceeds of the others, or the 11 trade-in, shall -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- be allocated as against the new 14 2012 Tahoes. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval as indicated. Question or discussion? All in 21 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 12-12-11 64 1 Item 18; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 2 approve the amendment to the T-Mobile tower license 3 agreement. Sheriff? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, as you all know, this 5 has been my chief deputy's project on going to tie in all the 6 volunteer fire departments, get them better radio reception, 7 and get them to the narrow band requirements that we were 8 having to do. So, step by step, I'm not totally up on this; 9 Clay's been handling it. He's out of town. I know the 10 amendment that they asked for he did get sent over to the 11 County Attorney. He has looked at it and approved it. I'm 12 just asking that it be approved, that project going ahead and 13 moving forward. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Questions or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- it's just the 19 term? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think there was just some 21 language. Wasn't there, Rob? 22 MR. HENNEKE: There was some typos internally that 23 had conflicted with each other in regards to the term. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Just essentially some clean-up? 25 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 12-12-11 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. HENNEKE: It's a two-year agreement, and 3 somewhere in there it had referenced five years, and so they 4 made that conform. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, Judge, if I may take just 13 a minute, because do I have some issues that are pending that 14 I need to get back and deal with. I did need to make a real 15 quick report to the Court on some items and some things that 16 occurred last week, if could I take just about five minutes 17 to make those reports during this time. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the reporter smiling at you? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably not. (Laughter.) 20 But last week was one of those weeks that I really don't care 21 to repeat. Last Thursday, we had -- 8 o'clock in the 22 morning, we had two surprises. First one was TCLEOSE, Texas 23 Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and 24 Education, walked into the office at 8:00 -- about 8:01 and 25 said, "We're here to do a surprise audit of all your 12-12-11 66 1 personnel records." At about 8:02 that same morning, the 2 lovely Texas Commission on Jail Standards walked in and said, 3 "We're here to do a surprise state jail inspection." So, we 4 got out of there, and Judge Tinley knew about 7:30, 8 o'clock 5 that night, by the time everything was over. The TCLEOSE 6 audit went perfect; there was no discrepancies found. There 7 were comments by the auditor that he wished every agency in 8 the state had it organized the way our personnel clerk has, 9 and he was tickled to death with the audit, and it was 10 perfect. 11 Unfortunately, the other part of that is, they also 12 gave us a new 22 pages of what they -- TCLEOSE is now going 13 to start requiring as a personal history statement for 14 anybody I consider hiring for the jail or for deputies. And 15 some of this, I think, is a little bit overboard, and we're 16 going to have -- they even want to know if these people have 17 Facebook accounts, and this is for applicants. I mean, it 18 gets into that much control that the State's trying to take 19 over us, who we hire and how we do it. I think there should 20 be tight restraints on it, but I think we can do that, and 21 each elected official should have to. But we'll work through 22 that, too. The jail standards found some technical issues. 23 We did pass with flying colors; there wasn't any problems. 24 They do have some issues that -- that jail's 15 years old. 25 All the showers in it are steel showers, not stainless steel. 12-12-11 67 1 No matter what you do, after about 15 years of constant use, 2 they are starting to rust at the bottom. They would like to 3 see us replace every shower unit inside that facility with 4 stainless steel, okay? 5 They came over here and did the inspection of our 6 holding cells that have been in use and been inspected every 7 year for 15 years, the courtroom holding cells, and now 8 they've decided we need a drain from the female holding cell 9 floor up here. You're talking about solid concrete to try 10 and install a drain through, or talking about some type of 11 valves that they can put in wherein if they flush toilets 12 more than twice, it shuts down; have to reset it after so 13 long. The other things that they noted was a -- really, for 14 the first time in 15 years, they decided they don't like the 15 fire alarm system inside this courthouse, because when it 16 activates, even though it's working perfectly, it also shows 17 two yellow lights on it along with the red alarm light. It 18 goes off at the P.D., who monitors it for us. It does 19 everything perfect. They even had the manufacturer of it, 20 even though it is outdated and I can't get parts for it any 21 more, send us copies of the -- the manual where it says that 22 those lights will come on every time that there is an active 23 alarm. It's part of the system. 24 They didn't like that, and ordered me not to use 25 those holding cells until such time as that was fixed. We 12-12-11 68 1 had capital murders due in court the next day. We had a lot 2 of other things, so as you can kind of probably understand, 3 with my temperament, we used those holding cells, and I told 4 them we were going to; I wasn't going to have a capital 5 murder suspect just sitting out in the courtroom. We did fax 6 them copies of everything, and they finally said okay and 7 relinquished. But there are some -- some things that we're 8 going to have to address. And with the jail overcrowding and 9 possible expansion out there, I think we're going to have to 10 look at it. They didn't like that it took as long as it did 11 for the hot water to get to some back cells as it did to the 12 front cells in the circulating system. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Give me a break. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I know. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Honest injun, guys. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I'm going to be honest; 17 I've got a son that served in Afghanistan, and I'm not too 18 happy with what our state's trying to do to us and tell us. 19 I believe in safety. I believe we need to have a safe jail, 20 and I believe we need to do that, but some of this stuff I 21 think is getting overboard. On the other issue, jail 22 overcrowding, Judge Tinley was at a meeting. We do have some 23 -- some issues. We did have two District Judges. Rob showed 24 up; the County Court at Law Judge showed up. And I think 25 when we start working with the architect or work through some 12-12-11 69 1 of these issues, there's things that this Court needs to get 2 involved in. 3 Currently, we have 1,081 outstanding criminal cases 4 pending in this county alone. We have 478 216th District 5 Court felony cases pending in this county. We have 340 198th 6 felony cases pending in this county. We have over 1,000 7 people on probation, either direct or indirect, from this 8 county, and we have 150 parole people that are on parole out 9 of the prison system in this county. I currently have well 10 over 1,000, closer to 2,000, outstanding criminal arrest 11 warrants. We've got to figure a way to put committees 12 together. I've asked for another meeting to come up with a 13 solution. We could build beds until we're blue in the face, 14 and they would be full in six months, and I don't think the 15 public would appreciate that. Do we have to build beds? 16 Yes. We're crowded. We have to build onto that jail. But 17 if we don't address the criminal justice system, either by 18 getting the State to help us redistrict some -- some of our 19 district courts or by coming up with alternatives on -- on 20 either monitoring or bonds or something, we're headed down a 21 very bad path or scenario with our criminal justice system 22 here. 23 I know we're looking at -- and y'all are looking at 24 Ag Barn expansion and things like that, but in 2004, to add 25 onto that jail, the last time I did a study, the cost was -- 12-12-11 70 1 because it is a maximum security-type jail, and because if 2 you add directly on it, the cost at that time was going to be 3 about 60,000 per bed. How many beds do we add? Where do we 4 go? This is an issue that I think this Court's going to have 5 to address this year, and I think it's something that we 6 really need to get all the players involved, come up with 7 some type of solution that won't just be constantly building 8 beds. The State's going to put more and more back on the 9 counties. They closed some prison systems this year. They 10 refused to take some of our state jail felons 'cause they 11 said they were full. Their solution for the state issues are 12 to shove it back on the counties, and for us to take care of 13 our own problems. Well, that's fine, but at what cost are we 14 going to have to do it? And I just think these are all 15 things, all these different state mandates and issues coming 16 out, that -- that we really have to start looking at and 17 getting involved in -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- before it gets bad. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see several things in 21 there. And I've always kind of hung my hat on one -- one 22 part of this whole issue of fixing the problem, to me, would 23 be visiting judges, retired judges to come in and sit in the 24 courtrooms while there's no one else. And I understand 25 that's not a -- a friendly way to do that, but were there -- 12-12-11 71 1 were the D.A.'s in this -- in the meeting? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Neither D.A. showed up. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, see, that to me -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They had -- one D.A. had a 5 representative in from their office, the clerk -- secretary, 6 administrative person. But neither D.A. showed up. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one of the issues. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is one of the issues. 9 I think one thing that we really need to look at -- and you 10 hear them keep talking about redistricting the two district 11 courts, okay? The 198th now, since this last Legislature 12 added Edwards County, all right, now has six counties it 13 serves. We're getting less than one day a week of court. 14 We're getting less than 12 trial days a year. The 216th has 15 four counties. It's the same way. Their civil docket, as we 16 found out during our meeting, has gone up so much because of 17 economic times or whatever that now we're losing criminal 18 days because of civil dockets too much. When you have all -- 19 you know, thousands of cases pending, and a jail that has an 20 average of at least over 100 days, up to 500 and 600 days of 21 inmates sitting there before going to court, you can't catch 22 up at one day a month of court. 23 One thing I did ask the Jail Commission, if you 24 want to fail this jail and find us in noncompliance, do it on 25 what one of the inmates told them. One of the inmates told 12-12-11 72 1 them -- and I'm not a proponent for inmates, but I am a 2 proponent of they're innocent until proven guilty. One of 3 the inmates told them -- 'cause they go around and they ask 4 all our inmates, "What are your gripes and complaints?" Of 5 course, this gets interesting at times. But one did tell 6 them something that struck home. He said he'd been there 47 7 days, okay? Fair Defense Act, he had an attorney appointed. 8 He got a letter from the attorney, all right, saying that 9 he's his attorney. He went to court the following Monday, 10 and the Court immediately set it off till the next court day. 11 That's 30 days later. He never saw his attorney. His 12 attorney wasn't in the courtroom. This man was sitting in 13 our jail 80 days before he even gets his first actual court 14 date, hopefully, with his attorney, unless it gets set off 15 again. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many times has that 17 happened a month? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a whole lot more normal 19 than it is abnormal, Buster. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's what's a shame. 22 It's dead time. We've got to find a way to move the docket. 23 Because what happens now is that guy's sitting there 80 days 24 before he has his first deal with his attorney, okay? Then 25 it may take another six months after that before he resolves 12-12-11 73 1 his case, or longer, so you're already talking almost nine 2 months in jail. Then he gets it resolved; he goes to prison, 3 say, for 10 years, all right? It's another 30 days after 4 that before the paper -- all the paper trail and he's paper 5 ready and we get to send it to -- to T.D.C. All right? So, 6 now he's there 10 months. Then they've got 50 to 60 days to 7 accept him before they have to start paying us after he's 8 paper ready, so now he's there a year. And the way the 9 State's doing things in parole right now, this inmate's been 10 in our jail a year. Maybe he got a 10-year sentence to 11 T.D.C., and what's going to happen and what they're serving 12 in T.D.C. is close to one day a year -- I mean one day a 13 month, okay? One month per year of sentence; let me say that 14 right. So, on his 10-year sentence, he's going to expect to 15 do 10 months in prison. His 10 months was served in the Kerr 16 County Jail, because every day he's locked up for that 17 offense, he gets credit. He'll never ever see the doors of 18 the penitentiary. He'll be paroled straight out of our 19 county jail. And that's a good way for the State to save 20 money; they put it back on us. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The reporter's not smiling any more. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, I'll get off my deal. 23 Thank you. But it is something we need to have more meetings 24 and visit about. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 15-minute 12-12-11 74 1 recess. 2 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 5 we might, and go to our 10:30 timed item. Item 15, to 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 7 professional services agreement with Tyler Technologies and 8 authorize County Judge to sign same. Mr. Trolinger? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. I put this on the 10 agenda. The training is for the Sheriff's Office. We've got 11 some new reports, and we've got some ongoing training -- 12 refresher training as part of this. It's going to start on 13 the 19th and last most of that week. The cost is about 14 $5,170, and it is budgeted. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. Do we need any kind 16 of action? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. It's a -- the form of 18 it, instead of just an agreement that says, "Please send a 19 P.O.," there's actually a contract agreement -- it's actually 20 an agreement, a professional services agreement, and it's got 21 a signature at the bottom with contract language. The County 22 Attorney says that is a contract, so it needs a signature by 23 the Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 12-12-11 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. I assume you've taken a look at it? 3 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any problems with it that you 5 see? 6 MR. HENNEKE: They could have just invoiced us for 7 it, but if they want a contract, it doesn't hurt anything. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion on the 9 motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. Let's go to our 10:45 15 item. Item Number 19, presentation from Colonel Tony Arnold, 16 U.S. Army, Retired, regarding Operation Second Chance/Wounded 17 Warriors Helping Heroes Move On. Commissioner Baldwin? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you very 19 much. Colonel Arnold's going to make a presentation. Before 20 he does come up, though, we have, I think, a five-, 21 six-minute video to show, and -- and then he'll come up and 22 make a short presentation. 23 (Video presentation.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, as Tony's coming up 25 to the podium, I want to tell you about him just for a 12-12-11 76 1 second. He -- he is a sponsor of a wounded warrior, and so 2 he doesn't just talk about it; he does it. And I've met his 3 friend from New Braunfels, and they're a cute family, and he 4 brings them up here and does things with them and for them. 5 And, anyway, go ahead, Tony. 6 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. Thank you very much for having 7 me this morning. I'm just going to take a couple minutes to 8 tell you what I'm about, a family outing for Kerr County. 9 And Cynthia and I, my wife, she was born here in Kerrville, 10 raised on a ranch out at Mountain Home, and we returned home 11 about 18 months ago -- or her home. And for the last six 12 years, we've hosted a wounded warrior on the Troy Smith 13 Ranch, and in addition to this, for two years now, we've gone 14 up to Red Lodge, Montana, and assisted with the wounded 15 warrior project up there. They actually fly in 12 couples 16 from Walter Reed Army Medical Center, and then they host them 17 for a week, two sets of them, or six each, and it's there 18 that I realized that there's a need for family activities. 19 America has done a great job of stepping forward 20 and assisting and recognizing our wounded heroes. These kids 21 basically have something to choose from every weekend, some 22 kind of an adventure, but there's very little to do for the 23 families. I'll get into that in just a minute. While we 24 were in Red Lodge, my friend up there said, "Well, why don't 25 you try to get something started in Texas for Operation 12-12-11 77 1 Second Chance?" And so as part of that, October 21st, 22nd, 2 23rd, Cynthia and I hosted Sergeant Danny Pape and his wife 3 Teresa -- or Tracie, and brought them out for three days, and 4 they did a little bit of hunting. She had never hunted 5 before. My wife's a big hunter, a lot more so than me, and 6 took her hunting. And while she didn't take any game, she 7 really enjoyed it. 8 And when we first sat down and started talking 9 about what we were about and what we were doing and why we 10 were doing it, she started crying. She said, "You know, 11 three years ago when Danny came home from Iraq, I really had 12 problems with this, 'cause we'd spend all week getting him to 13 the doctor, getting him to therapy, getting the kids where 14 they had to go, et cetera and et cetera, and Friday afternoon 15 come up, and he'd take off on some great adventure, and I'm 16 left at home with the kids." She said, "I recognized he 17 deserved every bit of that recognition, but," she said, "I 18 really had a hard -- really had a problem with it." And she 19 said, "I'm over that now. But I really appreciate that 20 you've included me in this, rather than just Danny." And, of 21 course, that reinforced in my mind that -- that there's a 22 need for these -- for these family opportunities. 23 And I'll just go ahead and let that run, and go on 24 to the next item of that. And so where we might go with 25 something like this? First of all, I suspect that there 12-12-11 78 1 wouldn't be anybody on the Court that would disagree with me; 2 if we do something in Kerr County, it has to be with private 3 donations and individual volunteers. No government money, so 4 forth and so on, even though I'm -- I'm seeking your blessing 5 in this. We need donations, obviously. What do you need to 6 have? Have to have lodging, have to have food, activities, 7 transportation, and, of course, volunteers. And what might 8 this look like? For instance, these are my ideas, and it may 9 totally end up being something different than this, but let's 10 say one of our resorts donated four nights of lodging for six 11 couples. Maybe one of the kids' camps says, "We'll come get 12 the kids every day, and we'll take them out and -- and do all 13 these things that we do with our campers every summer." My 14 first thought on that was, well, that means we'd have to 15 schedule it when they don't have any campers, but maybe not. 16 Maybe this becomes a camper's project that they adopt a daily 17 camper for the week, or the tribe does, or however it works 18 at those things. 19 And adult activities, obviously, we've got hunts. 20 You know, one of our famous ranches held a -- a cowboy 21 breakfast, and then for the hunters, whether it's husband, 22 wife, family, however they wanted to do it, or an individual, 23 and for some of our ranchers. And then after breakfast, 24 those ranchers take the hunters out and host them for a hunt 25 for a day or two. Golf, we've got some great golf courses 12-12-11 79 1 that could make some great golfing outings. The Guadalupe 2 may be low, but it's still great for swimming and boating, 3 fishing, so forth and so on. We've got some great museums, 4 as you can see from the photographs here. They didn't -- 5 Tracie felt uncomfortable in a canoe, and we talked about 6 what we might do. We went to the Western Art Museum; they 7 just had a great time. They really enjoyed it. Shopping. 8 At Red Lodge, they gave each couple a $200 credit card; they 9 can spend it downtown, and, well, that benefits everybody. 10 They get to buy things, and the merchants get -- get some 11 additional business. I'm sure there's other activities that 12 I haven't thought of. 13 Why do you need Operation Second Chance a 501(k)? 14 Well, there are several reasons for that, I think. One, of 15 course, is any nonprofit can give you that tax advantage that 16 we see from a donor, and the recognition that they've donated 17 to a nonprofit that they can use on their taxes. Also, you 18 need the insurance protection that these nonprofits have to 19 protect you if you're holding one of these events. And the 20 one that I like about Operation Second Chance is any 21 donations we take stay locally. You can take a donation for 22 your project; it doesn't go back to national to pay the bills 23 or whatever it is. There's only one paid employee, by the 24 way. That was Adam; the double amputee that you saw up here 25 is actually the one paid employee of Operation Second Chance. 12-12-11 80 1 Let's talk about donations for a minute. What I 2 would propose is, let's say somebody comes up to me after 3 this meeting and says, "Hey, I like this idea. Here's a 4 hundred bucks." I give them a receipt. I've got a record of 5 it, and then for whatever reason, it never happens. Then I 6 propose to give that money back, or give that person the 7 option of donating it to another charity or sending it to 8 national, if, for some reason, like I say, this -- my idea 9 doesn't come to fruition. The other thing is, let's say we 10 have money -- let's say we do it, have a successful event; 11 there's money left over. I would propose that we prorate 12 that back to the people that provided services and donations, 13 give them the option of taking -- getting reimbursed a little 14 bit for some of their donations. If they want to keep it and 15 save it for next year or whatever, that's fine too. But I 16 would propose that to an organization. I hope that I can 17 gather seven to ten volunteers for a planning and oversight 18 committee, elect a chairman, a couple of treasurers, require 19 two people to sign any checks, all that kind of stuff. 20 So, what do I need today? Well, first of all, I 21 would hope that I could get the Commissioners Court's 22 blessing on this thing. Secondly, I need -- I think the next 23 place I need to go with it is maybe the Chamber of Commerce, 24 and since I'm new here, I need an introduction to the Chamber 25 of Commerce, or maybe another idea of what's better to go 12-12-11 81 1 with this. Publicity would be the third thing. And the 2 fourth thing would be introductions to folks that you know 3 that might be interested in volunteering or making a donation 4 for something like this. Can I take your questions, please? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Colonel Arnold? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, it's a great 7 concept, great idea. It's something that, you know, with our 8 proximity to San Antonio, I think there's -- you know, I'm 9 sure a lot of people, you know, that -- wounded. 10 MR. ARNOLD: That's the great thing; we wouldn't 11 have to fly anybody; they could drive themselves here. And 12 I've done this enough that I know those folks up there. I 13 know the paperwork that needs to be done. That's another 14 possibility. If somebody approached me and said, you know, 15 "We'd like to take and host a couple this weekend..." -- or 16 some weekend. Not this weekend; I couldn't get it done, but 17 some weekend. I could do the paperwork and so forth and 18 facilitate that, and get them hooked up with something like 19 that too, so that's another possibility that could happen 20 with this. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of things I just thought of 22 to add to your list is, I don't know how -- a lot of that is 23 pretty structured, you know, keeping them busy. My 24 experience has been -- 'cause we have a ranch, is that people 25 just love getting out to a ranch. No activity. 12-12-11 82 1 MR. ARNOLD: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be able to walk. You know, 3 many, many people have never even been out in the country 4 like that, so there's -- it's not -- doesn't take a lot of 5 activity and a lot of involvement. Just need, you know, a 6 place to go. I think it's a great idea. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is. I've been -- I was 8 involved with the Wounded Warrior program one year. John 9 Seymour that has Pinto Ranch, I believe; does some hunts. 10 MR. ARNOLD: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He does quite a few, I read 12 about. We actually cooked a meal for a large group of those 13 guys that came in. 14 MR. ARNOLD: See, and that's the kind of thing you 15 need for something like that. It doesn't cost a whole lot of 16 money. It takes a little time for volunteers. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's something that my wife 18 and I would volunteer to do, because we do it all the time. 19 And it doesn't matter where it is, unless it's, you know, way 20 far away. But I know it's probably going to be here locally 21 in the county. And we would more than -- more than be glad 22 to volunteer to help serve a meal or something like that. 23 We don't have a place large enough to hunt, but -- 24 MR. ARNOLD: So -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Great plan. I mean, I 12-12-11 83 1 really -- 2 MR. ARNOLD: How about stepping forward to serve on 3 the committee? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are next door 6 neighbors. 7 MR. ARNOLD: Thank you, Bruce. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't you live out in Cypress 9 Springs now? 10 MR. ARNOLD: I do. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what Cynthia told me, 12 I think, when I saw her at -- 13 MR. ARNOLD: You in Cypress Springs, off -- just 14 out near there? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I live out just beyond, up 16 the road from Troy about 2 miles. 17 MR. ARNOLD: Oh, that neighborhood. Yeah, okay. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mr. Arnold, I just wanted to 19 say I'll be glad to take and introduce you to the Chamber 20 president here in Kerrville. We have a new Chamber 21 president, and to our new economic development director as 22 well. Another thing that you might look into in trying to 23 find out about some other potential resources to use in our 24 community is our Hill Country Shooting Sports Center, 25 Mr. Burch. 12-12-11 84 1 MR. ARNOLD: What was that again? 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We have a Hill Country 3 Shooting Sports Center. It is an -- 4 MR. ARNOLD: Oh, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- elite training site for 6 our country. 7 MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: In fact, we won five gold 9 medals in the China Olympics out of our training at this 10 facility. Mr. Burch has expressed a lot of interest in how 11 to get programs set up for veterans that are getting 12 acclimated back into our community. That is a great 13 opportunity, I think, to meet Mr. Burch, and also explore 14 those ideas as well. But I'll -- 15 MR. ARNOLD: Absolutely. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let me know when you'd like 17 to; I'll be glad to take you over to the Chamber, introduce 18 you to those folks. 19 MR. ARNOLD: Okay. I appreciate that, sir. Thank 20 you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Colonel? 22 MR. ARNOLD: Is it okay if I say, when I'm going to 23 a volunteer, that I've given a preliminary briefing to you? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thumbs up. 25 MR. ARNOLD: Outstanding. Thank you. Appreciate 12-12-11 85 1 it, again. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Colonel. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your service. Okay, 5 let's go to our 11 o'clock timed item. Item 21, a discussion 6 of issues relating to Flat Rock Lake Park. Sherry Egloff has 7 talked with me on a few occasions and has raised some 8 questions, concerns about some things at Flat Rock Park, and 9 I said, "Well, why don't you just come to the Court, and 10 let's get it out here in the public." And she said she'd be 11 happy to do it, so I'm going to turn it over to her. 12 MS. EGLOFF: Well, thank you very much. So you 13 know, I am Sherry Egloff, and I use Flat Rock Park a lot. 14 I'm down there several days a week, and I've been doing this 15 for years. But I'm also a master naturalist, and I'm 16 involved with Riverside Nature Center, so I'm very, very 17 cognizant of nature and how this park is run, et cetera. And 18 I have three suggestions on how this park could possibly be 19 better done, but first is to stop the off-roaders. These are 20 those folks that run up and down the hills and create all 21 this erosion, the big mud puddles. They rip up the meadow. 22 They leave ruts all over. Anyway, I've been told that this 23 is not allowed, and that what one should do is to call the 24 Sheriff's Office and tell them if you find something -- 25 somebody doing that. Well, I truly cannot imagine that I 12-12-11 86 1 would be standing there while they are doing that with a 2 phone in my hand, and knowing who to call. And I also can't 3 imagine -- if you caught them, what would you do with them? 4 Point one. It's obvious there are roads up and down these 5 hills that have been used for a long time, so how would they 6 know that this is not to be desired? 7 The other thing is, there's not one sign forbidding 8 it, so I don't think that -- I think that point one, we 9 should stop them. This erosion that they cause affects the 10 road and makes it very dusty, and that dust then goes into 11 the river and pollutes the river. So, I think a simple 12 solution would be, one, put up a sign, and the sign should 13 say, "No Off-Roading. Report violators to Sheriff's 14 Department," and the phone number. But I don't think these 15 people are probably terribly bright, and we might need to 16 enforce that by blocking the trails. And I think that -- 17 that you folks have at your hand the resources to do this. 18 You need something to block these trails, and you have a 19 whole field full of dead trees, huge dead trees. I propose 20 that you move the dead trees. And if you don't -- they're 21 not big enough, you know, you can always get more, and move 22 them and put them across the trails. Any comments on that 23 idea? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're sure that the trees 25 are dead? We don't kill live trees. 12-12-11 87 1 MS. EGLOFF: Well, you certainly have a very nice 2 assortment of dead trees down at the end of that park. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean down on the other 4 end? 5 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah, right. On the -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The dog park. 7 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah -- no. 8 MR. BOLLIER: But they're already cut down and 9 stacked. That's what you're talking about? 10 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah. Yeah. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 12 MS. EGLOFF: I think that you could -- right down 13 the road on Riverside Drive, somebody's cutting down some 14 massive trees. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, ma'am. 16 MS. EGLOFF: Maybe could you borrow them and lay 17 them across. Or Texas Tree Service; I'm sure they have 18 hundreds of trees you could collect from. But the concept is 19 that these are things that are free. You have the manpower; 20 you have the equipment, et cetera, and you do not have to buy 21 anything to stop it. Any -- I mean, any thoughts on that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The trees are -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the guy that needs to be 24 listening to you right here. 25 MS. EGLOFF: Okay. Boy, here I come. That's one. 12-12-11 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The trees -- trees or boulders. 2 Boulders do the same. 3 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah, they do, but I think you'd have 4 to pay for those, though, wouldn't you? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have some. 7 MS. EGLOFF: You have those too? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have boulders. 9 MR. BOLLIER: What she's talking about is right 10 there where you go out of Flat Rock when you first start to 11 go to the dog park there on that dirt road to the left. I 12 mean, we've even put up -- at one time we had T-posts in 13 there. Doesn't do any good. Those people just come in and 14 just ride -- that's where they're riding back up in there. 15 MS. EGLOFF: Yes. Yeah. 16 MR. BOLLIER: And, I mean, the problem is, you just 17 can't ever catch them when they're there. 18 MS. EGLOFF: Exactly. So you got to stop them. 19 Somebody said that they had this problem somewhere else, and 20 they buried barbed wire, and the next morning they had 21 several cars out there stuck. I suspect that might be 22 extreme. But -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That sounds pretty good. 24 MS. EGLOFF: But I think -- I mean, use what you 25 have. 12-12-11 89 1 MR. BOLLIER: When you first pull into Flat Rock, 2 as soon as it rains, those kids go right into that big flat 3 area where the road -- where the paved area goes around, 4 there's that little field. First thing they do, those kids 5 get in their car and go down there as soon as it rains. They 6 all do it every time. 7 MS. EGLOFF: Every time. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Every time. 9 MS. EGLOFF: So, are you interested in this -- in 10 doing something? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be closed to vehicular 12 traffic. 13 MR. BOLLIER: We could close the park -- I mean, 14 close it to traffic, period. 15 MS. EGLOFF: You could do that. There is a gate. 16 There is a gate. 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. EGLOFF: But somebody would have to open and 19 close it. 20 MR. BOLLIER: Well, not if we close it down to 21 vehicle traffic. Close the gate, keep it closed. 22 MS. EGLOFF: Well, you'd keep me out. I go there 23 three times a week, for god's sake. (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody but me. 25 MR. BOLLIER: We'll give you the key, okay? 12-12-11 90 1 MS. EGLOFF: I don't know that I like that idea. 2 Okay. Well, anyway, we've discussed that. Now, I have two 3 other proposals. One is, I don't know if you're aware that 4 in this area between the north park and the south park, 5 there's a transit -- what I call the transit zone. And along 6 that transit zone happens to be one of the richest wildlife 7 areas that I have seen anywhere in this area, and it's 8 basically the end of Third Creek, and then there's also a 9 backwater there. And those two things form quiet water, and 10 quiet water is where fish -- baby fish live, and the toads 11 and the baby dragonflies, et cetera. This is where they -- 12 they spawn and they live, and that creates all these birds 13 that come to eat them. So, this is one of the richest areas 14 I have seen in this area for wildlife. The other day I was 15 there, and there were 12 white egrets standing there fishing. 16 So, anyway, how would one protect that? That is 17 filling with silt from the off-roaders and going back and 18 forth on that road. Well, I would say that it's -- one 19 should only mow the flat land; no slopes, no hills, no 20 embankments for either the creek or the river. And that 21 would provide wildlife habitat and a filter to stop the dirt 22 from going down and filling in these desirable areas. 23 Basically, I think it's -- and also, I would like to see the 24 trustees out there filling holes in the road so that you 25 wouldn't have this massive dust when you go through there, 12-12-11 91 1 which then blows out into the river and pollutes the river. 2 Is there any possibility of that being done? Changing the 3 management of how it's cut? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a Road and Bridge 5 issue to me. 6 MR. BOLLIER: The road sounds like a Road and 7 Bridge issue, but where she's talking about -- where she's 8 talking about, the only way we weed-eat that is with B.J., 9 'cause it's all hill; you can't mow. 10 MS. EGLOFF: See, you shouldn't go on those hills 11 at all, ever. 12 MR. BOLLIER: You don't want them there? 13 MS. EGLOFF: No. You shouldn't go and cut them -- 14 cut on those, and you shouldn't cut on the slopes either. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's talking about cutting 16 down the amount of maintenance. 17 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I was fixing to say. 18 Yes, ma'am, we'll make sure we don't ever cut again. 19 (Laughter.) 20 MS. EGLOFF: But, you see, you know, there is -- 21 you know, I was with the Chicago Botanic Garden for many 22 years as a volunteer, and we had issues about riparian 23 things, and the biggest issue is things washing into the 24 river. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, ma'am. 12-12-11 92 1 MS. EGLOFF: And their solution was to have lots of 2 native -- thick native stuff along the edge, which then 3 filtered it and kept it from going in. And so that's -- 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. EGLOFF: -- my thought. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it rains again, we won't 7 have to worry. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah. Well, see, I think that was 9 part of the problem this year; it didn't rain enough for that 10 stuff to grow, so -- 11 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So dry for so long. 13 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah. But you have -- it's best not 14 to cut anything that's not on flat ground. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Ma'am, if you can get the Court to 16 agree to that, I won't cut it any more. 17 MS. EGLOFF: I would love to get them to agree to 18 that. Okay. Well -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the park -- the parks do fall 20 under the Maintenance -- 21 MS. EGLOFF: Ah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Department, so I think it would 23 behoove you to make an appointment with Mr. Bollier to meet 24 you out there at some point in time, and point out exactly 25 what it is -- 12-12-11 93 1 MS. EGLOFF: That would be grand. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that you're concerned about to 3 him. 4 MR. BOLLIER: I'll be more than glad. 5 MS. EGLOFF: Okay, excellent. Well, let me go to 6 point three. Point three -- okay. Now, I think that the 7 north section of the park is appropriately managed for the 8 usage; you know, it's got people and cars and things like 9 that. But the south section, including this transit zone, 10 easily could become something special. It could become a 11 nature center or wildlife nature bird sanctuary. And how 12 would you do this? One is that vast meadow out there would 13 only be cut two times a year. That's how you manage 14 wildflowers. You cut it in June after the flowers have set 15 seed, and then you cut it again in January to eliminate -- 16 you know, to allow the young growth to come up. And this 17 greatly enhances wildflowers. Another thing you could do 18 over there is to add some trees in that great meadow, and 19 around it put drifts of unmowed plants. In other words, 20 drifts or islands of not-mowed plants. And this creates 21 wildlife habitat. The path that goes along the river, I 22 think, should be designated a nature or birding trail. It's 23 already there. You could take some of that ground-up trees 24 and use that as a surface for walking over there, and call it 25 a nature trail. And over where this great backwater is, you 12-12-11 94 1 could possibly put a blind or a viewing area. And in the 2 area where you come into the area of that transit zone, put 3 "Slow, Nature Zone," a sign. But, anyway, I've already 4 spoken to the director of Riverside Nature Center, where I 5 also volunteer, and they can provide advice on wildlife 6 habitat, riparian areas, tree selection, bird blinds, et 7 cetera, if that's necessary. But I think if -- if one did 8 these things, this park would be a greater asset to 9 Kerrville, and it would expand the usage of the area. And I 10 think most of this could be done with the present resources 11 you have, and the cost for things like trees or a bird blind 12 or whatever, I think, could be covered by donations. When I 13 was at Chicago Botanic Garden, this garden went from nothing 14 but empty field, and in 40 years, is one of the finest 15 gardens in the entire world, and that was due to donations. 16 And the way you get people to donate is you put their name on 17 everything, everything from a tree to a million dollar 18 garden. Anyway, I hope you will consider these improvements, 19 as I think they will greatly enhance Flat Rock Park. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Egloff, I -- I like some 21 of the things that you're talking about. Some of the things 22 I think are a little bit far out. Just my opinion. 23 MS. EGLOFF: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I like most of it. But 25 the part down on the other end, do you see the nature center 12-12-11 95 1 coexisting with the dogs? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. I would take my dog 3 there. Never disturbed any bird I've ever seen. I've -- and 4 so far as the meadow, leaving it at least two-thirds mowed 5 occasionally, I think the dog people would be just as happy 6 as ever, and I know I would be. I don't see any -- any 7 problem in it, truthfully. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 MS. EGLOFF: The other thing is, some of the dogs 10 like to jump in the river. I suspect there might be a couple 11 places where you might want to mow a little closer to the 12 river, but the rest of the edge should be left unmowed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 MS. EGLOFF: Any -- any other ideas, or questions? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess she meets with Tim, 16 then Tim forms some kind of agenda request for us? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, puts together a plan. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We promptly say no, and we 19 go on down the road. 20 MS. EGLOFF: That's right. That's what I figured 21 would happen. (Laughter.) Anyway, thank you very much. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Work with Mr. Bollier. He's in 23 charge of our parks, and -- 24 MS. EGLOFF: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think it would be well for him 12-12-11 96 1 to see it on the ground, exactly -- 2 MS. EGLOFF: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what some of your thoughts are. 4 I think he's probably got a mental picture, but don't assume 5 that's the correct picture. Get him out there on the ground 6 and -- and y'all talk about it, okay? 7 MS. EGLOFF: Any time. We'll do it. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 9 MS. EGLOFF: Thank you very much. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, can we do -- we're 12 kind of lined up to do 22, aren't we? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, we sure are. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe Mr. Colbath is 15 here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anybody else coming, or just 18 you? 19 MR. COLBATH: Just me. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just all by yourself? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else coming? Let's go to 22 Item 22; it is an 11:30 timed item, to consider, discuss, 23 take appropriate action to accept conveyance of property from 24 Ingram Little League Association for Cade Loop right-of-way, 25 and additional property west of right-of-way presently owned 12-12-11 97 1 by Ingram Little League Association. Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, Judge. I put this on 3 the agenda. Worked with Ingram Little League, and -- we 4 needed some right-of-way for Cade Loop bridge project, and 5 they were very cooperative in doing what we asked them to do. 6 They even had a special meeting to agree unanimously to 7 support the gift to the County of even an additional amount 8 of land upstream from the Cade Loop bridge. Jonathan has the 9 survey and all. It's 1.03 acres total that they're gifting 10 to the County, because it's all basically flood -- it is 11 floodplain land. Some of it's floodway land. And, so, 12 Mr. Colbath is here, and he, I believe, has agreed to sign as 13 the president of Ingram Little League. And we're going to 14 need a notary. I don't think we have one. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think Jannett just went after 16 somebody. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need one for that 18 signature. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so, anyway, this is James 21 Colbath; he's the president of Ingram Little League. And I 22 talked to him -- and I believe your buddy's James Craft; is 23 that correct? 24 MR. COLBATH: James Craft. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Craft was very helpful 12-12-11 98 1 in -- in explaining the situation to some of the members of, 2 I think, this board that didn't really understand what it was 3 really all about. But I tell you what, I appreciate this so 4 much. It's probably the fastest acquisition of any kind of 5 right-of-way that's ever been gotten by the County when we 6 needed it for a specific project, and I just think we ought 7 to give them a good recognition and a hearty thank-you for 8 doing exactly what was the right thing to do for the 9 community. And I know the community supports them, and 10 hoping that they -- I think they're applying for some grant 11 money right now to give them some park improvement, and if we 12 can help encourage some of the people that might be willing 13 to fund that project to do so. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something else I might add. I 15 don't know if y'all take advantage of it, but our trustee 16 program and also our community service, they are available at 17 the Little League. Kerrville uses them occasionally; Comfort 18 uses them once or twice. But if y'all need us to do 19 weedeating -- you know, the maintenance on baseball fields is 20 a lot, but just to kind of go in and clean up, cut down 21 trees, brush, weed-eat, they are available. 22 MR. COLBATH: What do you use? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Adult Probation. 24 MR. COLBATH: Excuse me? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Adult Probation. 12-12-11 99 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Adult Probation. 2 MR. BOLLIER: 896-2233. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You heard it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- it's got to be 5 scheduled, but just call -- contact them and schedule it, and 6 they can usually take care of some of those maintenance 7 issues or clean-up stuff. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that the County Attorney 10 has reviewed this conveyance? 11 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And finds it to be in proper order? 13 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He wrote it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess if we could get James 17 here -- do you want to -- we got the notary right here. Got 18 a pen, actually. 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram Little League is 21 actually deeding this land to the County. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good neighbors. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not just an easement; 25 it's a deed. 12-12-11 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We do appreciate your cooperation. 2 MS. TREVINO: Address there. You can sign here. 3 MR. COLBATH: Do you want me to print? 4 MS. TREVINO: Yes, please. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many youngsters do you 6 got participating in your Little League program out there? 7 MR. COLBATH: Year before last, we had right at 8 150. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 10 MR. COLBATH: This past year we had about 130. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, good. 12 MR. COLBATH: So we're hoping to get it back over 13 150, try to get some of these kids more involved in the 14 sports and off the streets and doing the things that we don't 15 want them to do. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. Appreciate it. 17 MS. TREVINO: Sign here. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got to sign your life 19 away when you come in here. 20 MS. TREVINO: Okay, thank you. 21 MS. PIEPER: Thank you, Elsa. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Colbath. We do 23 appreciate it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's making a copy of it for 12-12-11 101 1 you to take with you. Then we'll file it, record it and all 2 that. 3 MR. COLBATH: All right. I appreciate it. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We appreciate it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll now go back and start 7 plugging the gaps here, back to Item 9; to consider, discuss, 8 take appropriate action to authorize the Auditor's office to 9 prepare and solicit bids for professional services for 10 engineer, bond counsel, attorneys, and financial adviser 11 under the Disadvantaged Business Act, Texas Water Development 12 Board grant. Ms. Hargis? 13 MS. HARGIS: I have prepared all of these RFP's. 14 The representative of the State has read them. Our attorney 15 has read them, and our engineer has also gone over them. I 16 also have the ad ready to be put in the paper, which our 17 County Attorney has reviewed, so I just need your permission 18 to put it in the paper. We'll receive bids no later than 19 January the 4th at 4:30 p.m., and then you'll take them up on 20 the following -- the first meeting in January, rather than in 21 December. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? 12-12-11 102 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. What is this for? 2 MS. HARGIS: I -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: East Kerr wastewater. 4 MS. HARGIS: This is under the grant program; we 5 have to follow the Disadvantaged Business Act to be able to 6 pay our consultants under the grant, so we had to basically 7 send out new contracts. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 10 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I got one thing we 17 didn't -- we didn't -- we don't probably have to have a 18 motion to accept that deed from Little League, but it 19 wouldn't be a bad idea, maybe. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go back to Item 22, 21 with regard to the conveyance of the property from Ingram 22 Little League Association to the County. That's a conveyance 23 of property. That's not an easement or right-of-way; that's 24 a conveyance of property itself. You're suggesting that the 25 Court take formal action to accept the conveyance, and you so 12-12-11 103 1 move? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I so move. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe it's important, 5 just for the -- for the County Clerk's records. And -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to accept 8 the conveyance as indicated. Further question or discussion? 9 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we'll go to Item 13; to 16 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 17 agreement to provide bond counsel services to Kerr County, 18 Texas with McCall Parkhurst and Horton. Ms. Hargis? 19 MS. HARGIS: We're going to pass on that one again, 20 because there's kind of a conflict there with the 21 disadvantaged -- so we're going to do that one first, and 22 then we'll come back with -- with a separate agreement for 23 bond counsel and -- and our financial adviser for just our 24 regular services. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 14, then; to 12-12-11 104 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2 procedures for purchase orders, inputting them into the 3 Incode computer software program, as well as properly 4 approving the invoices and directions on purchasing from the 5 Local Government Code, Chapter 262. Ms. Hargis? 6 MS. HARGIS: I think all of you have a copy of what 7 Tess and I came up with as a fairly simple format as 8 instructions on how to do it, where they can find the bidding 9 processes in the Local Government Code. It's more like a 10 guide than a policy, but we do need a policy in place for the 11 purchasing because of the audit requirements that -- that we 12 have. And we -- we need those in place so everybody knows 13 that this system has to work in order for us to be in 14 compliance with Sarbanes–Oxley, which they've been talking 15 about in the paper a lot lately, and on the news. And those 16 are becoming more and more important with the external 17 auditors, because they're getting -- their peer reviews are 18 reflecting how they're taking care of that. And, 19 unfortunately, the smaller folks are the ones who are taking 20 the bigger -- blunt end of these acts, rather than the larger 21 companies, as we see in the paper. But in order for us to be 22 consistent, you know, this goes along with our computer 23 systems, which is also where I'm supposed to make these 24 recommendations. So, I would hope that you would have looked 25 at this. If you haven't had enough time, we can put it back 12-12-11 105 1 on again. Most everybody's doing this now. I mean, 2 everybody's started signing their P.O.'s, which has helped a 3 lot. Then I can show the auditors that we've already tried 4 to be in compliance, so hopefully they won't write us up. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have the outside auditors here 6 now working; is that correct? 7 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. So, you know, a lot 8 of the -- including the Sheriff, a lot of the P.O.'s were 9 signed on this last go-round. A lot of people just got a 10 little bit lax with what they're doing, and because we never 11 really had a formal document out there that said we need you 12 to sign these things. And so this is kind of where we're at 13 on this. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was the policy -- it didn't 15 look that cumbersome to me; looked pretty much like what I 16 thought we were doing anyway. But did the other elected 17 officials and departments have an opportunity to look at 18 that? 19 MS. HARGIS: It was with the agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just -- 21 MR. HENNEKE: It wasn't posted as a backup. I 22 haven't seen it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather, just because of 24 that reason, delay it for a week. I have no problem with it 25 myself, but I'd just like for all the department heads that 12-12-11 106 1 use it a lot more than I do, and elected officials to make 2 sure that there's not something that they just have a real 3 heartburn with. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Get some input on it. 5 MS. HARGIS: They may have some heartburn with it, 6 but I don't think I have -- I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. I just don't 8 want to pass it through without, you know -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Right. I will pass it out to all of 10 them. We've already talked to a lot of them about it, so 11 we'll continue to work with them. But I'd like to get it in 12 place as soon as possible. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And especially Road and Bridge 14 needs to make sure that they're -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You know -- 16 MS. HARGIS: Road and Bridge is not one of our 17 problems. Never has been. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, but they're one of our 19 biggest purchasers, is what I'm saying. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes, but they always follow the rules. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You used the words "audit 22 requirements." What would that -- give me a hint of what 23 that might be. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, in our overall accounting 25 system, we have what you call internal control, and internal 12-12-11 107 1 control is, you know, one of the audit requirements or one of 2 the audit checklists that external auditors look for to see 3 if you have your internal control in place to make sure that 4 you have every type of safeguard in place to be sure that a 5 disbursement is not made -- you know, somebody buys something 6 for themselves, or that it's not -- it's not approved by the 7 department head or the elected official, and that there's 8 more than one person looking at the invoice. And this is 9 what we -- when we started the P.O. system, in the computer 10 software, one of the things I did was put a safeguard in 11 there as to the clerk putting the -- the invoices in, and had 12 a certain level that they could put in. After that, they had 13 to take it to their boss. And in many respects, this was 14 very helpful, but it wasn't enough. 15 They need to sign -- a lot of people tend not to 16 want to do our invoices, and so they -- they give them to a 17 clerk. The clerk is approving them; the clerk is writing 18 them, and they may or may not know what these disbursements 19 are. And your biggest white-collar crime is in this type of 20 thing. And it sounds petty and little, but it can go through 21 in this manner. And because there is a section now that says 22 it's actually an internal control audit that we sign off on, 23 that I have to sign off on, that I have presented things like 24 this to you. That -- that our elected officials are 25 following some type of format. It's part of the audit. It 12-12-11 108 1 didn't used to be, but after Enron, it is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the word "requirement" 3 fits here? 4 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, it's required by 6 somebody? 7 MS. HARGIS: It's required by the federal 8 government, actually, that you have this internal control. 9 And when you -- when you sell bonds, one of the things they 10 ask is, "Do you have an internal control policy in place? Do 11 you have a fraud policy in place?" All of you signed a fraud 12 letter. That fraud letter is part of the internal controls. 13 All of the elected officials signed that. So, you know, it's 14 one of those things that -- like my son who was with KB Homes 15 said that, you know, he ended up signing invoices that were, 16 you know, a foot high that he never really thought he needed 17 to be involved in, just to be in compliance with the 18 Sarbanes–Oxley Act. It's a huge act that most people just 19 ignore, but it requires -- it actually says in that act that 20 every invoice needs to be signed. It needs to be initialed. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was my next question. 22 In this document that you're referring to, is there, like, a 23 list of things that are required? 24 MS. HARGIS: It's a very large document, and it 25 requires invoices to be -- to be reviewed; it requires more 12-12-11 109 1 than one person to look at them, and so forth and so on. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, this Number 13, 3 are you bringing it back today? 4 MS. HARGIS: No, we're not bringing it back today. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 MS. HARGIS: I'll pass that out to -- and then 7 we'll bring it back, probably not till the first meeting in 8 January, if that's all right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we don't have to -- we try 10 to keep our December 28th meeting light. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 27th, whatever it is. 27th. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 20; 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to address the 15 possibility of prohibiting the sale or use of restricted 16 fireworks, that being skyrockets with sticks and missiles 17 with fins, in any portion of the unincorporated area of the 18 county pursuant to Local Government Code Section 352.051 for 19 the December fireworks season. I put this on the agenda to 20 give the Court an opportunity, if it so desired, to pass an 21 order. It must be done today if it's going to be effective 22 for the upcoming Christmas/New Year's time period. Anybody 23 have an interest in pursuing it? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do not, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12-12-11 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I'm not speaking for 2 them; I'm just saying I don't. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They can speak up for themselves, I 4 suspect. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they can. I've seen 6 it happen. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and I don't hear them. Do 8 you? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 23; to 11 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on preparing RFQ 12 for insurance consultant for health insurance and other 13 benefits. Commissioner Letz? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I put this on the agenda. 15 I think I discussed this during the long budget workshop 16 period, that I thought we ought to look at this consultant. 17 Mr. Looney, obviously, our current consultant, from looking 18 back at the records, I believe that original contract was in 19 2004. It's automatically renewed. And whether we keep Mr. 20 Looney or change, that's not really the issue to me. We also 21 have to make sure we have a current contract, and I would 22 like to put it on the agenda to get others' input. So, it's 23 just a -- if we approve it, to go out for RFQ for the same 24 basic services. Need to get the current contract to the 25 County Attorney's office so he can look at it, make sure it's 12-12-11 111 1 what we're doing. I'll probably run it by the Auditor and 2 H.R. as well, and then go out, and sometime, you know, during 3 the early part of the year, make a selection. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: When's the last time that's 5 been reviewed, that we've looked at that? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2004. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So it's been seven years, 8 eight years since, basically, we've looked -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. That's what I 10 could find in the records. It was just a contract that was 11 automatically renewed. It was at will by both parties. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If that was a motion, I'll 14 second it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a motion. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you want to second it? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You second it. You're fine 19 with it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. You want to see your 21 name on it or what? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No, no, no. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. I'm just trying 24 to be helpful here. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You're right there. 12-12-11 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: To prepare an RFQ for insurance 3 consultant for health insurance and other benefits. Further 4 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor, signify 5 by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to Item 10 24; update on new least with Kerrville Youth 11 Baseball/Softball Association in Kerr County. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is on the agenda -- I said 13 we'd put it back on the agenda for our first meeting in 14 December. I met with -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the committee 16 report? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the committee report. 18 Doug and I met, and -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The committee of two. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and then we gave it to the 21 other committee member, being the County Attorney, 22 afterwards. But it's pretty self-explanatory. We're looking 23 at probably going with a new entity, which will be a 24 501(c)(3). That will be a five-member board, two members 25 from Little League -- or K.Y. -- Kerrville Youth 12-12-11 113 1 Baseball/Softball Association, two from select baseball. It 2 had a county representative, but it may just be an at-large 3 representative. Kind of thinking about that still. Probably 4 a 20-year term with some opt-out provisions for either party. 5 Anyone that uses the facility would enter into an agreement 6 with that board. The board will approve the schedules, which 7 seems to be one of the issues. The board will address the 8 maintenance out there, and the intent being that everyone 9 kind of pays their fair share. Little League -- when 10 originally the lease was put together, Little League was the 11 only entity that used the facility, or organization. Now 12 that there's more than one, it's to kind of divide up that 13 maintenance cost. Some issues that we do need to work on, I 14 think, is the in-kind contributions need to be addressed. 15 You know, certain things that -- a lot of work is done by 16 some of the organizations, so if people use it, they ought to 17 get some credit for it. Obviously, there's also some utility 18 bills or just expenditures out of bank accounts. Kerr County 19 would continue to have Adult Probation -- maybe even expand 20 our role with Adult Probation and doing some of the mowing 21 and maintaining the off-field areas, kind of the common 22 areas, depending on their schedule. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not going to be 24 wildlife habitat? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Kerr County would grade 12-12-11 114 1 the parking lot once a year, blade that off. And then we 2 need to address the liability out there. So, that's kind of 3 it in a nutshell. I just put it on the agenda to make sure 4 Doug and I didn't go way off-base. This is pretty much -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Those are the talking points. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are the talking points. 7 And I've given it to Rob to kind of start working on an 8 agreement that kind of makes this into a legal document. 9 MR. HENNEKE: I don't know what else more I need to 10 do, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just sign the bottom. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wouldn't you like -- 13 as an example, Kerr County would grade the parking lot once a 14 year. Wouldn't you get a specific time on that? I mean, -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think probably -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- go out there and grade it 17 when you get through with baseball. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think it's a good idea. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or do it before. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the season starts. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, put a -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A time, you know, during the -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- date on there of some -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's in the spring now, 25 isn't it? 12-12-11 115 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: During school time. It used 3 to be in the summer, but it's now -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: April? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It starts in March, basically. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, March-April. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All Little Leagues in the area 8 start registering in February and January, but their seasons 9 pretty much start -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Basketball season will end 11 locally around the 9th or 10th; Little League's already 12 started. You go to the end of the basketball season in 13 March-April, yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 25; to consider, 17 discuss, take appropriate action on approving the application 18 submitted to Texas Water Development Board for the Clean 19 Water State Revolving Fund. Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. We 21 basically did this at our last meeting, but the application 22 is now here, the actual application. And because of this -- 23 of the -- you know, just going to the state and all the 24 ramifications, I thought it would be cleaner if the Judge -- 25 or if we actually approved the application that was 12-12-11 116 1 submitted, 'cause there was some of the blanks that have now 2 been filled out. There is a pretty significant change from 3 what we actually approved. We said it would not exceed, 4 like, 15 million. At the time, we were talking about -- 5 thinking of originally going after the full -- the 6 construction phase as well. Decided not to do that. We went 7 through and submitted the application at $1,894,884, which is 8 a planning grant. And I just want to make sure everyone's 9 aware of that. So, I'll make a motion just to approve the 10 application as submitted. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 13 indicated. This is for the planning grant only? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Planning grant, yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or 16 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 26; consider, 22 discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Commissioner 23 Letz to submit any other documentation related to the 24 application for the Clean Water State Revolving Fund as may 25 be requested by Texas Water Development Board. Commissioner 12-12-11 117 1 Letz, that's a cleanup item? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a cleanup item. My 3 understanding is that the staff at Water Development Board 4 will be going through and they will send us a letter at some 5 point; we will have two weeks to get that information 6 submitted back to them, and because it's a relatively short 7 period, just to have the authority to supply that 8 information. Which probably -- you know, if the timing on 9 our schedule of the -- of agendas works, I'll bring it 10 probably to the Court. But if it doesn't, just so we can get 11 the information back in. I think we have most of it covered, 12 but there -- I'm sure we forgot something somewhere in the 13 small document we had to put together in about a week. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 18 raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We're due back here 23 at 1:30, so we'll be in recess until 1:30. 24 (Recess taken from 12:00 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 12-12-11 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 2 we might. We were on our lunch recess. We'll take up Item 3 33, the agenda item to consider, discuss, take appropriate 4 action to present Leonard Odom with the outstanding Road 5 Administrator in Texas of the Year award. Mr. Tony Vasquez, 6 I'm going to turn it over to you, sir. 7 MR. VASQUEZ: Thank you. Thank you very much for 8 having us here, Commissioners. My name is Tony Vasquez; I'm 9 the president of the Texas Association of County Engineers. 10 I'm from Bexar County. And Joe England is the 11 Secretary-Treasurer of the Texas Association of County 12 Engineers and Road Administrators, and he is from Travis -- 13 Williamson County. The Texas Association of County Engineers 14 is an organization that promotes high standards and 15 efficiency, advances road engineering and management 16 knowledge and progressive principles through meetings, 17 seminars, and publications. Every year, TACERA recognizes an 18 individual that has demonstrated the application of efficient 19 engineering and management principle. With over 30 years of 20 road construction experience in both the private and public 21 sectors, and as the Kerr County Road Administrator since 22 1991, and because of his outstanding service and meritorious 23 achievement in economic redesign, construction, maintenance 24 and operation in the public works field, the Texas 25 Association of County Engineers and Road Administrators would 12-12-11 119 1 like to present the "Outstanding County Road Administrator in 2 Texas" award to Leonard Odom, Jr. 3 (Applause.) 4 MR. ENGLAND: With your permission, I'd like to 5 read the following: The Texas Association of County 6 Engineers and Road Administrators recognizes Leonard Odom, 7 Jr., Kerr County, as Outstanding County Road Administrator in 8 Texas. 9 MR. ODOM: Thank you, Joe. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got to get a wide-angle lens 12 with that crowd. (Laughter.) 13 MR. LAVENDER: I can make it work. We'll take two 14 or three, just in case somebody's not real ready. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hey, John, get up here and 16 get a picture of all the Road and Bridge guys and -- and 17 these guys. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's a good idea. 19 MR. LAVENDER: Got your whole department out here. 20 MR. ODOM: Sure. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 MR. ODOM: Thank y'all. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 25 MR. VASQUEZ: Thank you very much. 12-12-11 120 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, do you have a few words 4 you'd like to confer to us? 5 MR. ODOM: Probably very few, okay? I -- for 21 6 years now, and I've probably been involved with TACERA that 7 long, I've seen a lot of county engineers and administrators, 8 and I take this as -- as an honor and a privilege to accept 9 this. But I'm not that good. It's to the men and women that 10 were behind me that you took a picture of. That's where the 11 credit goes to, to be successful, not necessarily me. And I 12 know some people are prejudiced up there, being Texas boys, 13 but an Aggie can do something every now and then. 14 (Laughter.) But I am appreciative, and this is a good group 15 of people. Joe and Tony are outstanding engineers, and I 16 think it's an honor to Kerr County, and I accept it and say 17 thank you, and thank you for y'all's support. I'm as good as 18 this Court has supported us, and you've done that. And we 19 appreciate y'all. Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 21 (Applause.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, I -- I strongly suspect 23 that if all these employees of the department, the crew 24 members, the crew leaders and so forth, were asked what their 25 success was due to, I'll bet you they'd tell you it's in 12-12-11 121 1 large measure due to the leadership that you've provided to 2 this department and the support that you've given them, 3 and -- because I've heard that from some of them, and I 4 suspect that's a common theme. And we appreciate your 5 service to this county. You've done an outstanding job. 6 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to check and see 9 if his mother's got anything to say? It all started back -- 10 MR. ODOM: I don't know if it would be publishable. 11 (Laughter.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably don't want to -- probably 13 don't want to give your wife the opportunity, do we, Leonard? 14 MR. ODOM: No, sir. That would -- that would be -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Much worse? 16 MR. ODOM: That would be... 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Well, let's get on and 18 finish up our agenda, then. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank y'all. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys need to clear on out and 21 get on back to your -- okay, we'll give you an opportunity to 22 clear out. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Merry Christmas. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looks like we're down to Item 12-12-11 122 1 27 on the agenda; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 2 regarding whether or not to allow noncertified burn managers 3 to perform prescribed burns during a burn ban, and approve 4 policy for implementation of the same. Commissioner Letz. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 6 because those that do prescribed burns, it's coming to that 7 time of year. I'm not sure if there'd be enough grass to do 8 a whole lot of it this year, but might be on some properties. 9 What I attached as backup is the backup in the policy we used 10 last year. In summary, it's that NRCS office will review 11 burn plans; they will approve them as to completeness only. 12 And, you know, this is a valid burn plan, and technically 13 it's up to us to approve them here. And it seemed to work 14 very well. They were very strict on their interpretation of 15 their role this last year. I think they only approved five 16 or six ranches to burn, and that was a very tough season to 17 burn. Anyway, I put it on the agenda. I think it worked 18 well last year. We did something a little bit, you know, 19 similar a couple years before that. We tightened it up with 20 this policy. And, any discussion? If not, I'll make a 21 motion to approve the policy, same as last year. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is the question on 23 noncertified -- I mean, is this something that we review 24 every year? This particular -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just really to clarify 12-12-11 123 1 it. I mean, you know, I think the Judge, last year, made a 2 comment that this is just part of our -- our standard burn 3 ban policy, but I just need to clarify, make sure it's on our 4 agenda in case we want to change something. For those that 5 don't know, if you're a certified burn manager, that's a 6 state certification. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can burn whenever you want. 9 You're exempt from burn bans. There are -- are not many; I 10 think there's only one, possibly two. I'm not sure if Sean 11 Kendrick got certified or not. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He did? So there's two in the 14 county. Well, then have you Red Buffalo, too. He -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Robbie Hurt said he was 16 certified. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He isn't certified. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, he said he was. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, did you say Red 20 Buffalo? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Keith -- I can't think 22 of his last name. His company's Red Buffalo. But not many 23 certified burn managers. And the way this has worked, you 24 have to write the plan -- the way the NRCS has interpreted 25 this, you have to write your own plan, and then you have 12-12-11 124 1 to -- you can only do it on your property. It's pretty 2 limited. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: These are noncertified? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Noncertified. If you're 5 certified, you're exempt. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do it as commercial activity. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And they're required to file 8 their own plan; they have to follow all these guidelines as 9 well? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got to follow the same 12 thing prescribed managers have to. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's what I'm asking. Just 14 making sure. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, that's the same burn 16 plan that a certified manager would file. There's several 17 forms. There's -- Forest Service has one, NRCS has one, 18 Nature Conservancy has one. They're out there. And it's 19 kind of put all of the parts of it together, and it's about a 20 -- oh, quarter-inch thick packet when you're done putting it 21 together, all the different information. You have to write 22 down the phone numbers and what equipment you're going to 23 have on the place, and if -- you know, and I think we have -- 24 you're under a penalty of perjury if you lie on it when you 25 sign the second page, that you're kind of -- 12-12-11 125 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think Cash Brown has two 2 for Lee Bass. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's a certified burn 5 manager. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there's -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He presents those plans to us 8 all the time. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so the state law allows 11 this kind of thing to happen, and it would be up to the 12 Commissioners Court to -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State law allows for certified 14 burn managers to burn whenever they want. These are people 15 that are not certified. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And, you know, this is 18 similar to what we do about barbecue pits and all that stuff. 19 We can kind of, you know, tweak the burn ban, as I 20 understand. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: To be noncertified -- to be 22 certified, how many -- what's the educational process to 23 become a certified burn operator? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure the number of 25 hours of training, but the -- the big hiccup has been 12-12-11 126 1 insurance. You have to carry a million-dollar specific 2 policy -- insurance policy, and that's a little bit -- it's 3 hard to get. Now, of course, if it's -- the burn ban's not 4 on, prescribed burns can go on as -- you know, standard. 5 This is just during a -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: When a ban's on. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When a burn ban is on, allowing 8 this. Now, it's -- now, the people that have used it in the 9 past, obviously, our family's used it. George Holekamp uses 10 it. Robbie Hurt might have used it last year. Gus Royce has 11 used it. It's not -- it's very beneficial to those that do 12 it. But the plan -- if you can write the plan, you obviously 13 are somewhat, you know, familiar with burning; you know what 14 you're doing. You have to have maps; you have to have 15 weather information. You have to record the time of the 16 burn. So, it's just -- you know, I think prescribed burn is 17 a great tool, and we need to encourage it rather than try to 18 hinder it. I'm not aware of any of these that have ever 19 gotten out of control that we've done. I think actually one 20 several years ago that Keith -- I can't remember his name, 21 but he was doing; he's certified, and it did get a little bit 22 out of control. He didn't -- he didn't say that, but the 23 fire department said that. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Stowers had that Nature 25 Conservancy group come in from Austin and do his last year. 12-12-11 127 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Stowers, they've done 2 quite a bit. They had Nature Conservancy come in. Might be 3 -- might give them a little bit of donation; I don't know. 4 But they -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Conservancy group comes in 6 with a wad of equipment and manpower. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. They're certified. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, by the Commissioners 10 Court blessing this kind of thing, there's no liability on 11 us, is there? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have to look to County Attorney 13 on that. 14 MR. HENNEKE: Does the policy the Court adopted 15 that's currently in place have any expiration? I don't 16 recall that it did. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 18 MR. HENNEKE: So, is there a need to renew, modify, 19 or amend what's already in place? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably not, but I just want 21 to make sure the Court's on board. Mainly 'cause when you 22 have one member that wasn't -- I guess -- were you here last 23 year? Yeah, you were here this time last year. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 12-12-11 128 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He didn't come in till 2 January. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I didn't come till January 4 1st. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not admitting anything. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's why I'm asking the 8 questions. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's good to bring it 10 forward. Whether we have to reapprove it is a good point, 11 but I think it's certainly -- I just don't want to -- 12 something like this that is in the public awareness a lot, we 13 want to be sure we still want to do it. I'm certainly in 14 favor of it, but -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I certainly am. I tell 16 you, it -- if it's done properly, it helps the land, and it 17 takes away fuel that -- you know, that whenever you're in a 18 bad time of year, that stands there, and if it's not taken 19 care of at the proper time, you can create a worse hazard by 20 not doing it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this does -- just more 22 general information; prescribed burns can never cover brush 23 piles. I mean, that's not -- you can't go out and say you're 24 going to plan to burn brush piles. That's why we have the 25 NRCS involved, because they just -- like I say, they'll 12-12-11 129 1 certify it, sign off as to completeness of the burn plan. If 2 they're talking about brush piles or something like that, 3 they're not going to approve it, because it's not what a 4 prescribed burn is. Prescribed burns is burning off ranch 5 land. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's kind of like -- 7 it's kind of like old Bill Armstrong -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- always does. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Bill actually kind of 11 teaches -- has helped teach a lot of these other people how 12 to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I was going to say, 14 he probably wrote the book on the thing. But -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He helped, anyway. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I like it. My only -- I'd 17 just like to see us, you know, support them getting their 18 certification, or educational on it. I mean, that's my only 19 deal. I'm -- people -- the people that you mention, I know 20 they know what they're doing as far as those burns, and 21 they're following everything that you see. It's one person 22 that you're concerned about who, you know, doesn't follow 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All the certification does is 25 -- is allow them to burn -- allow them to be in charge of 12-12-11 130 1 burning on somebody else's property. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I think it's 3 probably a good thing to get certified. There is a Hill 4 Country Prescribed Burn chapter, which Kerr County -- it's 5 Kerr County, Gillespie, Blanco, Kendall, Bandera. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Generally meet with them at 7 least once a year. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is there a class that we can 9 ask them to attend once a year? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I could look into that and see. 11 We can encourage something like that, you know. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I mean, just as an 13 educational component, all I'm saying. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically, what the committee 15 or the society has done is they -- they've started teaching 16 people about burning. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it's kind of been dead 19 for a long time, but it's been pretty active the last four or 20 five years, six years. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's to protect a little bit, 22 unless somebody lies, and then all bets are off anyway. On 23 their form, you have to show burn experience. The NRCS, one 24 of the requirements is you have to have somebody -- you have 25 to be experienced yourself, is actually the way it's worded. 12-12-11 131 1 You can't even bring in somebody. You can't hire Bill 2 Armstrong to write a plan for you. You have to write your 3 own plan, have to certify that you wrote your own plan. So, 4 you've got to -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not simple. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I've got a motion, but I don't 8 have a second. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, we've got a second. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Will you inquire about the 12 educational class? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. I'll be okay with 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 18 on the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it keeps raining, we won't 25 have to worry about it. 12-12-11 132 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Gus Royce got rid of about 3 600 brush piles in the last four or five days. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 28; consider, discuss, take 5 appropriate action to provide letter of support to Alamo 6 Regional Transportation's grant application to AACOG for Kerr 7 County participation in a four-county Regional Mobility 8 Awareness Program. Commissioner Overby? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, Commissioners, this is 10 an opportunity through AACOG. We've been made aware that 11 this is a grant that Kerr County could be a part of with 12 Wilson, Atascosa, and Medina, and regarding -- due to the age 13 of our population in our county, that we can take advantage 14 of. It's a $50,000 grant. AACOG has asked us to see if we 15 could submit a letter of support for that grant. The reason 16 for the grant, it would provide regional awareness. They 17 would come up with and do several -- host several venues 18 where they would come up for older population to understand 19 how the transportation system works, how we're trying to 20 improve that in 2012. Basically, what -- only -- we're not 21 out any money as far as funding this project. We would have 22 some in-kind service to have a -- maybe a representative, 23 maybe a commissioner or myself or somebody to attend those 24 venues. It would be about $12,500 for Kerr County, and to 25 help with awareness for our senior citizens as far as 12-12-11 133 1 transportation. I will let you know that currently, right 2 now in Kerr County, we are averaging between 1,450 and 1,600 3 site trips monthly through our A.R.T. program here, and this 4 is just an opportunity to enhance it and to make the 5 awareness more eligible for our senior citizens. And with 6 that, I have a letter here asking for your support for this 7 grant request. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a motion, right? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's -- that's correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 11 second? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 14 Further question or discussion on that motion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. The 16 $50,000 grant, is that to be split amongst the four counties? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes, sir. It'll be 12,500 a 18 piece. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 20 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 25 Item 29; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 12-12-11 134 1 approve contract with Kerr Economic Development Corporation 2 and allow County Judge to sign same. I put this on the 3 agenda. As you'll recall, we budgeted $20,000 pursuant to a 4 request from K.E.D.C. And as with other organizations -- 5 County-sponsored organization, we've had a contract for a 6 number of years that we've required them to sign, and this is 7 that same contract, just another year. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion to approve. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second to approve the 11 agenda item. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify 12 by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 17 Item 30; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 18 revised plan for the show barn at Hill Country Youth Exhibit 19 Center. Commissioner Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think last meeting I 21 got the approval from the Court to go and work with the Stock 22 Show Association and -- and 4-H, and we have done that, and 23 came up with a -- a plan that everybody seems to be in 24 agreement with as far as the size of the building. It's a 25 concept. The other details of it, I have some of the details 12-12-11 135 1 I think I can show you here, I've been working on. And I 2 redrew the plan after -- after we met last week. And Tim's 3 going to get me a little easel, I think, to put this on. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, anyway, this is kind of 6 what we have. But the basic overall size of it is a 240 feet 7 wide and 300 foot long facility. And it's just a metal 8 building, is what we're proposing, and then we'll do layout. 9 We've allowed space for restrooms, concession, kitchen, 10 office, meeting room, storage. Felt like the storage would 11 be a good thing to have in the same building for chairs and 12 tables and things like that, rather than having them off in 13 the middle of nowhere. So, there's plenty of room for that 14 to happen, as well as an upstairs office for the Stock Show 15 people, because they need line of sight to all of their show 16 rings and what's going on because of their computer being 17 wireless. And also, it will -- it will allow them to be able 18 to see the show ring and the sale ring during the stock show 19 sale. We looked at some things in other facilities that will 20 be included in this one, which will include some big fans. I 21 got -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Big 'uns, huh? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're big fans. I pulled 24 them up on the internet this morning, and some of those have 25 blades as much as 24 feet long. And the guy's actually 12-12-11 136 1 called the house to talk with me since I e-mailed him, and 2 I'm going to call him back tomorrow. But they're huge fans; 3 they move a lot of air. We're not proposing to air-condition 4 and heat the back section of that building. The show -- the 5 show part of it will be approximately 50,000 square feet, 6 which is way in excess of what we have now. And the front 7 part, I believe, will figure out something close to -- just 8 the seating area, somewhere around 19,000. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many people does 10 that seat? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somewhere between 1,000 and 12 1,200, depending on how we configure it. And that'll be the 13 largest facility for a group to be able to sit down for a 14 function or a meal or whatever. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stock show -- and stock 16 show's going to fill that up? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. No. It's just large 18 enough to grow into. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fans that big have to have a 21 name. What's name of those things? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a brand name, and 23 it's called Big Ass Fans. That is their name. That is the 24 brand name. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't you love it that he's 12-12-11 137 1 so shy? 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And they are big. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I misjudged the weight of 4 them a little bit. I thought they weighed 200 pounds, but I 5 looked on the computer this morning, and instead, they weigh 6 480 pounds, and they have to be hung off of one of the -- off 7 the actual I-beams. They can't just be hung out in the 8 middle of nowhere. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, I can't imagine that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're huge. They either 11 run on 220 power or 440 power. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And they do move air. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We've also figured in this 14 thing -- and what I -- I'm already in the process of getting 15 cost estimates; not a bid, because we got to go out for 16 formal bids. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: For the shell. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the shell only. That's 19 all we're talking about right now, is just the shell. And in 20 that had to be included the number of doors and walk doors 21 and -- and, you know, there will be exhaust fans on the side 22 of the building and on the end of the building so that you 23 get the big fans pushing down and pulling from up -- we 24 figured in 12 ridge vents on the top of the building, so 25 you'll be able to pull fresh air in, and then those side vent 12-12-11 138 1 fans will pull it out. That'll eliminate a lot of your dust 2 and move some air around. Also in that, there'll be 3 restrooms -- you know, we're kind of getting off of the basic 4 thing right now, but there's a space allocated for restrooms, 5 concession, storage, meeting room. All that stuff is -- the 6 space is there; it just has to be -- that part still has to 7 be configured. Let's see, what else is on there? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Plenty of restrooms, we 9 talked about. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we're talking about 11 nice -- real nice restrooms in the -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Plenty. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in the exhibit hall part, 14 and other restrooms back in the corner because it's so far. 15 That building is 300 feet long. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And we don't really have any 18 restrooms in the existing -- we don't have any except what 19 they access into the old building in the existing indoor 20 arena, so we'll have them back to where they can be accessed 21 as well, the new ones in the new building from the old 22 building. But everybody's in agreement. I've got -- Roy 23 Walston was there, and Bob Reeves. Steve Bauer couldn't make 24 it that night, but they gave me some ideas, some changes to 25 what I had drawn originally. I redrew it. I showed it to 12-12-11 139 1 Bob today -- this morning; he was in full agreement with it. 2 Roy's fine with it; I showed it to him on Friday. The 3 building will be 20-foot side walls. It will join -- not be 4 -- not join physically, but built very -- almost right up 5 against our existing building, be double guttered to both 6 sides so that we can actually put in a rainwater cachement 7 system. And if we get some grant money or something to do 8 some of those -- a cachement, we can actually take and -- you 9 know, my first thought was it would be good for Road and 10 Bridge. It would be good for, you know, watering down arenas 11 so we don't use potable water. But I think if we really look 12 at the plan, we'd want to filter it. We might want to use it 13 as much as we can in the building for potable water as well 14 as all those other things; fire protection, water and 15 roads -- you know, if you get a big enough storage tank, we 16 could really cut the consumption of potable city water. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, you're building on 18 faith, aren't you, -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that we're going to get 21 that much rain? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you do know it doesn't 23 take much rain on a building that size. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 300 feet. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 72,000 on that one, and the 12-12-11 140 1 other half of the indoor arena would be a hundred and -- 125 2 by 300. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Close to 100,000, probably. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right at 100,000 square feet. 5 You take a half inch of rain on that -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's a lot of water. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can't -- I don't think we 8 have a big enough storage tank. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A 2-inch on that -- 2 and a 10 quarter-inch rain is going to give you almost 400,000 11 gallons. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Gallons of water. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See, it doesn't take much. 15 But I think that one is -- that's a good selling point for 16 the project. But I've got them -- I've got them figuring in 17 gutter. One building is already guttered. The new building 18 will be guttered on both sides, but don't put downspouts. 19 Run them all the way off the back and then feed them into two 20 separate big storage tanks. But, anyway, that's kind of a 21 concept of what we're working on. And I guess what I -- and 22 like I say, I have -- I have sent a real crude drawing of 23 this to some metal building folks just to get a -- one of the 24 larger ones, just to get an idea of cost, so that we know 25 what to plan for, what we're up against. I should have that 12-12-11 141 1 information this week. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, tell me how the 3 air conditioning units also, how it -- the units would be 4 perceived. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to sit up on an 6 elevated platform on the west side of the new building and -- 7 and be piped in with those big old pipe things like they have 8 in big commercial buildings. But it would just be for the -- 9 for that exhibition hall. I believe we can -- we can survive 10 real well in the back with the ventilation that we -- that 11 we've seen in other places. And this is really kind of a 12 modification, I think; a better -- a better plan than what -- 13 San Angelo didn't even have any fans. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They just had those -- they 16 had the side vent fans, but they didn't have any of the ones 17 down the middle, and they said they weren't able to move air 18 in the middle. So, this is kind of an enhancement to what 19 they had. That's kind of where we are. And I just want to 20 make sure that the Court, I hope -- hopefully y'all will be 21 in agreement with this, the size that we've come up with, and 22 this being the new proposed size of building that we feel 23 like that will go more than a couple of years down the road. 24 Stock Show folks said they can get -- make their show bigger 25 if they can have a bigger building. 12-12-11 142 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the 300-foot length is to 2 coincide with the length of the indoor arena? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is the same length. It is 4 the same length, and it is -- it is wider. In the exhibition 5 hall part of it, there will be columns set in 40 feet from 6 the eastern side of the building, and then from that point I 7 have asked that the metal building company design trusses 8 that would span 200 feet, because 240 is really tough. You 9 get into some real, real, real big metal, and that -- we 10 decided to scale it back. And then the area that's 40 foot 11 that we're allowing on one side is for all the restrooms, 12 storage. It really doesn't matter if they're over there. I 13 just felt like we didn't want them on the other end. We 14 wanted that hall to be all open, clear span. And the back, 15 moved all of them -- actually moved them in 40 feet on either 16 side, ran full-length with the center being open, and a clear 17 span of 160 feet. That was the most economical, other than 18 putting a whole bunch of posts in it, which are always in the 19 way. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so I would -- I would ask 22 your blessing on the size of the 240 by 300-foot metal 23 building, and so we can be -- get ready at some point in the 24 near future, hopefully put it out for bids. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I have a comment to make as 12-12-11 143 1 well. First of all, Commissioner Oehler's done an 2 outstanding job of taking the lead on this -- this project, 3 moving things. I think the site visits, just for -- just for 4 the Court's information, again, that we made to San Angelo 5 and San Antonio, you recall came out of the part of needing 6 to take different organizations in our community, invite 7 them, take them with us on a trip, which we did. 8 Commissioner Oehler's led those efforts. I think the visit 9 to San Angelo, in looking at how the functionality of these 10 facilities need to be built, and San Antonio were very 11 beneficial for us, even though we think we knew where 12 everything was, looking, seeing how things were done was 13 beneficial, and I think that helped with everything. 14 Again, what we heard back consistently from the 15 places that we visited was to make sure that we -- you know, 16 we were talking about building a 45,000 square foot showroom 17 -- I mean show barn. But on the flip side of that was also 18 to encourage to build it larger so you can grow into it. And 19 I think the square footage that Commissioner Oehler is 20 presenting here today is -- is kind of -- we didn't need a 21 San Angelo facility of 100,000 square feet, but 72 gives us 22 an opportunity for our junior livestock show to grow, and for 23 other opportunities for our programs here. And I -- I 24 support this effort, and I think it's been very good to have 25 made those trips. And, Commissioner Oehler, I appreciate 12-12-11 144 1 everything you've been leading on this effort. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's just the 3 beginning. There's a lot to be done. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Next thing is going to be that first 5 preliminary number. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. That first 7 preliminary number is going to give us an indication of how 8 good or how bad it is. An idea. But I have a -- I have a 9 good feeling about that number coming in, being as we're not 10 building a convention center, and not doing the same type 11 things that -- you know, we're building a lot of covered 12 space. It can be used for God knows what -- lots of things, 13 under cover, you know, somewhat, you know, reasonable with 14 ventilation, and a nice -- a nice place to have some, you 15 know, sit-down gatherings and stuff that Kerrville doesn't 16 have. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The show barn in San Angelo, 18 the 100,000 square feet, was built in '08, and it cost a 19 million and a half. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So the 72,000 square feet -- 22 it's three years, but people are needing work. And so we -- 23 that's the other thing. We know where they were three years 24 ago on 100,000, so -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they had lots of 12-12-11 145 1 columns in there, which made it a lot cheaper, you know. But 2 it's still -- I think it's doable. We're going to find out 3 shortly. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just going to ask a 6 question. You came real close to kind of throwing a number 7 out there. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I didn't; I just gave you 9 what San Angelo's costs were. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, you did. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they built it for a 12 million, seven. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A million, seven. So, 14 you're talking about a million, seven here? Is that what 15 you're talking about? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not till I get -- you're 19 talking about finished building. I'm just trying to get a 20 price on the building itself. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we'll get the other 23 components. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's play like it's $12.50. 25 Where -- what is the plan of coming up with the $12,50? 12-12-11 146 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think we have some 2 money set aside, and then the Stock Show people have agreed 3 that they will -- you know, we just need to get a plan in 4 front of -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: An estimate of costs. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in front of, you know, the 7 people that they can draw money from. 'Cause they don't give 8 us anything. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like what you're saying. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I believe that they've -- 11 I believe some of those bigger contributors will get in; 12 they'll support the program. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you -- is the Stock Show 15 Association -- have they started talking to some of their 16 donors? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have -- they've been 18 mentioning it, but they really want something, you know, to 19 put in front of them. I think if I can get the blessing of 20 the concept here, then I can get Peter Lewis to put it on -- 21 put it to scale. You know, something that's real easy to 22 look at. Nothing fancy; just, you know, a basic concept plan 23 that -- that we have blessed, and that the Stock Show people 24 have blessed and 4-H has blessed. I think that that'll make 25 a good -- and with stock show coming up, it's a good time for 12-12-11 147 1 them to talk to some of their folks. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me, we're on the 3 right track right now. We need to get -- we need to get the 4 Peter Lewis drawings. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the cost. We need those 7 two things. And at that point, we can figure out what part 8 of it we're going to be responsible for, what part the Stock 9 Show's going to be -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- responsible for. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly where I'm 13 headed. I just want to get the blessing, because without 14 modifying the plan that we have adopted, -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- you know, I really can't 17 move forward with this. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, but, Bruce, when you 19 talk about this blessing thing -- which I think I'm the only 20 one at the table that's qualified to bless stuff, but when 21 you get into the this blessing thing, does that mean that 22 later on, when we do get some numbers and we say, "Good god, 23 that's way too much money," are you -- are we going to be 24 able to pare back, like, the size -- the size of this dining 25 hall and -- 12-12-11 148 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- things like that? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've -- I don't know now. 4 There's no way we can -- if we can't afford it, we can't 5 afford it. Have to scale it back. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, I guess my 7 question is, is it going to tick you off, personally? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, huh-uh. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Got to start somewhere. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, not at all. I mean, I'm 11 part of this group, and we have to do what we can afford to 12 do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not going to be mad about 15 anything. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm voting yes. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To try to move it forward, I 18 move that -- that we adopt this concept plan of a building 19 for the exhibition hall and stock show barn/exhibit multi-use 20 facility, whatever you want to call it; that that -- the area 21 for the barn itself total will be 240 feet wide and 300 feet 22 long. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which computes into 72,000 12-12-11 149 1 square feet. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 72,000 square feet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And with that, it is your intention 4 to go to the architect under prior authorization and get a 5 work-up, a rendering, so that we got something concrete? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, so that we can make 7 that -- include that in the plan that we already have in 8 existence. And I have already got him on call. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If I have to, I'll camp out 11 on his doorstep, 'cause this has got to be done pretty 12 quickly. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you're talking to the 14 metal contractor -- I believe Mueller were the ones that 15 you're talking to -- if you would, ask what the construction 16 time is as well. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just get an idea as to what -- 19 you know, what window we have. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I was told that a 21 building this size, once it -- you go through the bidding 22 process, and once you award the bid, it takes 10 weeks to get 23 that building made and delivered. So, that's why I feel like 24 if we're going to do this, we got to find out pretty quickly 25 where we're headed, how much it costs, because we're kind of 12-12-11 150 1 -- if we decide that we can afford to do this and we get 2 enough support from the Stock Show folks, we can move 3 forward. That building out there needs to be coming down no 4 later than the middle of February. That's another deal 5 that's got to be -- I will be working on. But one step at a 6 time. But the steps are going to be coming a little bit 7 faster, I think, as we move forward. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Grinstead, I think, is worried 9 about timelines, but we'll get to that issue shortly. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Tim. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. No, he's not -- he's 12 okay. It's Jody. Tim's all right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Any other questions or 14 comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. We'll see what we 21 get. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 31; to consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action to determine an approximate 24 start date for renovations at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 25 Center and determine how to handle existing and future 12-12-11 151 1 contracts for events scheduled -- already scheduled in the 2 exhibit hall and hog barn areas of the facility. 3 MS. GRINSTEAD: As a follow-up to the previous 4 discussion, I didn't realize what kind of a fast track you 5 had in your mind going forward with this till after last 6 meeting, and so I need some direction on what I tell these 7 people who've already booked it. It's pretty much booked 8 through 2012. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From my -- from what I can 10 say about it is that you've got -- you have choices -- or 11 they have choices to make, whoever they are. The ones that 12 -- that need indoor facilities will have to somehow use the 13 indoor arena. The ones that are rodeo, roping, barrel 14 race-related, unless that indoor is booked, they must go 15 outside. We have a new outdoor arena with lights. 16 MS. GRINSTEAD: But you also talked about no 17 restroom facilities. 18 MR. BOLLIER: You're talking about no restrooms, no 19 water. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Electricity, maybe. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have to have 22 port-a-potties. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Well, would it -- would it not be 25 better, then -- I mean, we're not talking about any 12-12-11 152 1 significant revenue coming from these rentals -- to just -- 2 you know, I can start working with the folks that have 3 contacted us. It's far enough in advance that, you know, it 4 gives them time to find alternate locations. Certainly, if 5 the direction to Jody is let's just stop booking it until we 6 -- we get through this process, and she cannot enter into any 7 new agreements, but, you know, if it's -- if that's the 8 direction we're heading into, then I'm -- I told Jody I'd 9 work with her on contacting anybody that's booked with us, 10 you know, and tell them, "I'm sorry, we're tearing down the 11 building; it's just not available. We hope you'll come back 12 after it's built." Because if we've got an active 13 construction, big massive project like this going on, I don't 14 think we want to have any kind of public events out there. 15 Whether they be, you know, dog shows or quinceañeras or 16 rodeos or anything, there's going to be a lot of moving 17 pieces, and if we were basing our budget upon having these 18 groups come in and use the facility, that might be one thing, 19 but the couple hundred dollars an event that we're generating 20 off of this, it's probably better for everybody involved for 21 us just to -- to keep it empty until we get the new space 22 built, till the dust clears. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rob, that place out there is 24 nothing more than a service to the community anyway. 25 MR. HENNEKE: True. 12-12-11 153 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, we don't come 2 anywhere near making any money. 3 MR. HENNEKE: Of course, that's part of my point, 4 too, is instead of having a loud construction zone that's -- 5 that's, you know, all issues that go on with construction, 6 potential danger risks and -- and the interaction of -- of 7 public events with, you know, an ongoing project, and all the 8 headaches that that's going to cost, would it not be more 9 prudent just to let everybody know now that, you know, we're 10 building for the future. We can't wait to have them back for 11 our new space; it's going to be amazing, but that we're 12 just -- it's not going to be available. If we've gotten 13 deposits, we'll refund them. If not, we'll tell folks we're 14 just -- it's not available. We're sorry, we can't 15 accommodate you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What about utilization of the 17 outdoor arena? It's -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably. 19 MR. HENNEKE: I mean, if we could -- I think that 20 would be -- there's enough separation there. And, certainly, 21 you could -- what is that plastic fencing? Or -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Rope it off. 23 MR. HENNEKE: -- or do something to keep the public 24 separated from -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: That's fenced already. 12-12-11 154 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lock the gates. 2 MR. BOLLIER: It's locked on the other side of the 3 red fence; you can't get to it anyway. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, then you could do that. 5 There's a separate entrance for folks to just come in there, 6 just go out, and keep all the buildings separate. I don't 7 see a -- a problem with the outdoor arena. But booking 8 indoor events and trying to, you know, accommodate back and 9 forth, it just seems more of a headache than it's worth. And 10 it is a community service, Commissioner Baldwin, and it seems 11 to me like we should -- rather than knowing ahead of time 12 this is just not going to be a great event for those folks, 13 'cause it's going to be dirty and noisy and not have the 14 facilities, why don't we just be honest with them now and 15 say, "You just can't have your event there. We hope you'll 16 come back, but we want to let you know now so that you can 17 find alternate spaces that you'll actually, you know, be 18 comfortable in." 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That makes good sense. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does. My question is, 21 though, at what point do you do -- what point in time do you 22 do this? 23 MS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, if you start 25 contacting them tomorrow, and this whole thing falls through, 12-12-11 155 1 then we have some folks -- and I would be mad too. 2 MR. HENNEKE: Well, better early than late. It 3 seems like there's considerable investment being put into 4 this, and -- and with things proceeding forward, if I was -- 5 if I was planning an event, I'd rather know six months in 6 advance than six days in advance. And, -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 8 MR. HENNEKE: -- certainly, we can tell Jody not to 9 book anything new. And if it's the Court's direction, then 10 we can start, you know, contacting those that have already 11 penciled in space, and do it now and give them as much notice 12 as we can. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Contact them now and say it 14 appears likely -- because of efforts being made to replace 15 the building, it appears likely that the building's existing 16 structure is going to be removed, and a new one constructed. 17 But as much up-front notice as you can give them. And then 18 once -- you know, they may want to be looking at other 19 facilities, because it appears likely that that's going to 20 occur. 21 MR. HENNEKE: And what if we -- what if we even 22 offered some sort of consolation to say when we are taking 23 reservations on the new space, we'll keep a list, and we will 24 contact you and let you know -- you know, in case you want to 25 come back with your event in 2013 -- 12-12-11 156 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give you the first shot. 2 MR. HENNEKE: And let you know that we're back in 3 business, and -- and, you know, we're not talking lots of 4 people that have made a lot of reservations. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Try and accommodate them. 6 MR. HENNEKE: Don't want it to be cumbersome for 7 anybody. We have to cancel, and promise them that we'll 8 reach out and let them know when the new space is available. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we'll know pretty soon, 10 you know, how -- if this is going to be possible, number one, 11 and a time frame, number two. 12 MR. HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think wait until probably 14 around the first of the year; wait till we get a couple of 15 these numbers in. Because based on what you're saying, I 16 mean, best case, by the time that we have the money, whether 17 it's our money or stock show money -- if we do it with our 18 money, it'll have to come out of a bond issue, which I don't 19 know how long that will be. Sometime in, you know, March, 20 something like that period, probably. Stock show's going to 21 take some time to get their part of the money, and it's going 22 to take 10 weeks to get a building here. Boy -- you know, I 23 look to -- defer to the Stock Show Association, but I'd be 24 pretty nervous about kicking off the project in May, with the 25 shock stock show coming up. You won't have a place to put it 12-12-11 157 1 if it's not done. I mean, I just -- you know, and it's up to 2 them more than, you know, me trying to say you can't get it 3 done like that. But, boy, if they come into next January and 4 this building isn't ready for a show -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they already said that 6 they'd get tents or whatever they had to do if it was in 7 process. They said they would make it work if they knew they 8 were going to get a new building. They've said -- you know, 9 we've had stock shows in places that you probably ought not 10 to have them. But -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that may be one of the 12 reasons for Jon's suggesting that you find out what the time 13 to construct is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Time to construct isn't -- 16 isn't all that long. Once you get building and you get all 17 your -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Foundation. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- get all your foundation 20 and everything done, that's going to take -- foundation work 21 can be done while the building is being built. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, we think the end of -- 23 first of the year, then, we will probably have the timeline 24 estimates? Is that what he's trying to get at? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm hoping for. 12-12-11 158 1 We won't know anything -- we'll know the time frame, if I can 2 just keep moving and keep -- you know, don't let any grass 3 grow under me, finding, getting all the information. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's going to be a 5 couple of -- I mean, it's not going to be like you're going 6 to call up people in January and say, "You don't have a 7 show." We're going to have to go out for bids just to tear 8 down the facility. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, there's going to be 11 a month to two months before we can get started doing 12 anything anyway, so it's not like people are going to be 13 called with -- you know, "Hey, you can't have your facility 14 here." I don't think it's a bad idea to call people and say, 15 "Hey, this is a consideration; be aware." But I wouldn't 16 start canceling people until -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Until we know for sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're a little bit further 19 down the road, at least first meeting in January. 20 MS. GRINSTEAD: Just so I'm clear, I won't book any 21 more, but I've got quite a few that are wanting to come in to 22 make deposits, and I've told them call me on Monday, because 23 I don't know where we're going. And that's it. I mean, I've 24 got 37 private events in April. If it's really going to take 25 long to go out for bonds and -- or whatever, tax notes, 12-12-11 159 1 whatever we're doing, and then get bids and get -- are we 2 looking really -- is April even feasible, that they will be 3 done -- I mean, that we will start? That's what I guess I 4 kind of need to know. Like, wait till January? What's our 5 cutoff as far as -- if these people are booked in June, yes, 6 odds are good if we go forward, it won't be there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: But April's a possibility. 9 MS. HARGIS: I don't think April's a possibility. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of it hinges on how 11 much money we have. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The cost. 13 MS. HARGIS: I agree with Bruce. You got to tear 14 it down, and you got to -- you got to put in your -- put your 15 concrete slab in while you're waiting on your building. And 16 as fast as they're going to have to move to get it ready by 17 stock show, that thing won't be there in April. I mean, I 18 would think that would be -- the -- if we didn't tear it down 19 in February, we should sure be tearing it down in March or 20 April. The money's not a big deal; we can get the money, and 21 in 60 days. We can get it faster if we have to. But we have 22 to have some concrete designs to get what we're going to get. 23 The only thing -- the only hitch -- I guess the other hitch 24 that we have that I'm concerned about is the new jail. Do we 25 do that separately? 12-12-11 160 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what we need to 2 talk about. We need a number. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: A cost. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we can figure out -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm hoping this week. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To get an idea of what we're 8 looking at. Because what they're going to give me is going 9 to be inflated a little bit, I would imagine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for their own protection. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For their own -- you know -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So we could have, on the 13 27th, kind of an update, maybe more of an idea of -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I certainly hope so. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- the timeline? That would 16 be good to have it next meeting. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If I don't have it from that 18 company, I'll get another one. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't hurt to get two 20 anyway, see how close they are. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'm working on a second 22 one already. 23 MS. GRINSTEAD: So, at this point, we're just not 24 doing anything? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't book any more. 12-12-11 161 1 MS. GRINSTEAD: I won't book any more; I understand 2 that. But to notify the people, you want us to wait till the 3 next meeting? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind notifying them 5 that a major project -- we may have to cancel. I don't think 6 that's wrong. We'll know in early January. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell them what we're working on, and 8 it looks like that's going to proceed forward. And -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in that event, the building's 11 going to be -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gone. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- cleaned off. 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: And then give those people in the 15 indoor arena the outdoor arena with port-a-potties. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The outdoor arena is fine, 17 with an option to go outdoors. 18 MR. BOLLIER: We'll have to get some port-a-potties 19 just down the street; ain't no big deal. You worry too much. 20 I told you not to worry. 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: Oh, I'll have them call you. 22 (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Has that pretty well got that 24 one taken care of? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I certainly hope so. 12-12-11 162 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And on Item 32, you wanted to 2 defer on that one for now, Mr. Henneke? 3 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to our addendum, 5 Item 34; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 6 approve the early voting location for the 2012 March primary 7 election and runoff, if any, to the Hill Country Youth 8 Exhibit Center, and a second early voting location at the 9 Kerr County Tax Office Substation in Ingram in accordance 10 with Chapter 43 of the Texas Election Code. March and April 11 at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, huh? 12 MS. ALFORD: Not, huh? 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: May be gone. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Number one, I don't know if we're 15 going to have a March primary. 16 MS. ALFORD: I know, exactly. That's one of the 17 things -- may not be till May now. 18 MR. HENNEKE: Well, it'll most likely be March, 19 April, and May. With the -- the Supreme Court redistricting, 20 what I anticipate is that you will have a presidential 21 primary in March, along with all of the statewide races and 22 the county races. There's some races that may cause a runoff 23 to happen in April, and then the legislative races will 24 happen on the municipal election date in May. The Texas 25 House, Texas Senate, United States Congressional races have 12-12-11 163 1 been put on hold by the United States Supreme Court. There's 2 oral arguments in front of the Supreme Court in January, and 3 so, from what I understand, is they're talking about a May 4 election for legislative races, which I guess will be on the 5 same date as the city and school board election dates. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- you don't think they're going 7 to hold up all of them? 8 MR. HENNEKE: No, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: They're going to let you go ahead 10 and have the local county, and then -- 11 MR. HENNEKE: If it wasn't a presidential year, 12 maybe. But the presidential primary date is set. Texas 13 wants to be in March, wants to have its delegates chosen, and 14 I don't see us delaying the presidential ballot. And if 15 they're going to do that, they'll do all of the other ones at 16 the same time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your second choice? 18 MS. ALFORD: The Cailloux Theater, then. I would 19 have to go back there, you know, for this -- on this side of 20 town, and then keep the -- are we going to do any kind of 21 buying or remodeling out at the early voting -- I mean at the 22 Ingram thing? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't know yet. 24 MS. ALFORD: 'Cause I'm afraid that's not big 25 enough for west Kerr County to do early voting at. 12-12-11 164 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not big enough for west 2 Kerr County voting? 3 MS. ALFORD: Parking-wise. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we can cure that. We 5 can get permission to park next door. 6 MS. ALFORD: Okay. 'Cause that's the biggest 7 issue, is the parking there at that one. I mean, the -- 8 building-wise, it's big enough, but the parking is a big 9 issue. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't -- the building 11 works, but we don't have enough parking. I bet we can work 12 on that. 13 MS. ALFORD: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, do you want to just change 15 the wording to the Cailloux, or do you want to talk to them 16 first? Do you want to call -- 17 MS. ALFORD: I need to talk to the Cailloux first. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to bring this back to us? 19 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have plenty of time? 22 MR. HENNEKE: It's sufficiently noticed, gentlemen. 23 Y'all could approve it subject to confirmation with the City, 24 if you wanted to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's probably 12-12-11 165 1 preferable at this time of the year. And don't you have to 2 have Justice Department approval? 3 MS. ALFORD: Yes, I do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You do? 5 MS. ALFORD: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I'll make a motion that 8 we approve the early voting location for the 2012 March 9 primary election and runoff, if any, at the Cailloux Center 10 and the Ingram Courthouse Annex. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 13 indicated. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Subject to -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was subject to City 16 approval of using the Cailloux Center. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or 18 discussion on that motion? All in favor, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. That 24 brings us to Section 4, I believe, payment of the bills. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 12-12-11 166 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 3 bills. Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget amendments. 9 Budget amendment summary; there are two on there. Do I hear 10 a motion that the budget amendment requests, Items 1 and 2, 11 as shown by the summary, be approved? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the budget amendments. Question or discussion? 16 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Late bills. It 21 looks like we have Hill Country Telephone, Windstream, Norman 22 Whitlow, Home Depot, G.T. Distributors, Security State Bank, 23 Hill Country Alternative -- whatever that is -- oh, 24 Alternative Resolution Center. 25 MS. HARGIS: And the other one is our only lease, 12-12-11 167 1 which is on the -- one of Leonard's trucks that he bought. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Security State Bank? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the late bills. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 7 late bills as indicated. Further question or discussion? 8 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I've been presented 13 with monthly reports from -- as follows: Kerr County 14 Payroll, November 2011; Constable, Precinct 4, November 2011; 15 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1, for September, October, and 16 November 2011; Constable, Precinct 1, November 2011; 17 Constable, Precinct 3, October 2011; Justice of the Peace, 18 Precinct 2, Office of Court Administration report for 19 September and October 2011; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3, 20 Office of Court Administration report for October 2011; 21 Justice of the Peace 3 for November 2011; County Clerk, 22 November 2011; Environmental Health, November 2011; and 23 District Clerk, November 2011. Do I hear a motion that these 24 reports as indicated be approved as presented? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12-12-11 168 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the indicated reports as presented. Further 4 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Reports from 10 Commissioners in connection with their liaison or committee 11 assignments. Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I've talked about the AACOG 13 one on our agenda item today. That's all I have right now. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Airport master plan. Anyone 16 that wants to look at it, make comments, it will be with 17 Jody. We have to submit comments by January 10th, if anyone 18 chooses to do so. This is the draft plan that we talked 19 about briefly this morning. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody has it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's right there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got some comments to 23 make about that. Not today. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About the number of trees? 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's good reading material, 12-12-11 169 1 too. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll have until January 10th, I 3 believe. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, good. Can I just 5 make those comments at home, to my wife? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you feel compelled to, you may. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll have to tone down 9 the cuss words quite a bit. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Animal Control is busy, busy, 14 busy. They keep finding people that have way too many 15 animals. And, of course, we have animals that are missing 16 from their owners, some of them not just being dogs and cats, 17 and we have cows -- and horses seem to be the most popular 18 thing, 'cause they're not worth anything right now; you can't 19 hardly sell them. Costs more to have them Coggins-tested 20 than it does at the sale barn that you can get for them. So, 21 having some of that kind of issue. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Have any spare donkeys? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sometimes. I haven't been by 24 there this last week and see, but sometimes she has a nice 25 donkey or two. Multi-colored, sometimes. But they're busy. 12-12-11 170 1 And, of course, Environmental Health is real busy. I heard 2 Mr. Givens the other day gave his first citation out; I don't 3 know what, but I didn't ask. Didn't want to know. And, of 4 course, stock show, the Ag Barn thing, I've spent a fair 5 amount of time doing that. More time to go. That's it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, you want to 7 make those comments now? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to -- I want to make 9 some. I -- it's not anything that I'm liaison about. It's 10 just a concern of mine, is that, you know, we're talking 11 about Ag Barn building; we're talking about jail building. 12 And that's my issue. I don't know what else we're talking 13 about. You know, and the word "bond issue" has come up -- 14 came up a couple of times in this conversation. I really 15 think that we need to sit down and figure out exactly what 16 we're -- we want to purchase, build, repair, et cetera, et 17 cetera, and go -- go to it from that way. Make us a list of 18 things that we desire, kind of like we did that last year in 19 the budget process, if my memory serves me, and then figure 20 out how much money we're going to borrow, beg, or steal. But 21 right now, I just hear -- hear us talking about where we're 22 going to build a new Ag Barn and we're going to buy us a new 23 jail, we're going to fix this and do that, and we really 24 haven't sat down and really talked about those things. And I 25 think we should. I think we need to, for our own good, and 12-12-11 171 1 particularly -- it needs to be done in front of the public. 2 We haven't done that. I don't have a clue. I don't have a 3 clue what we're doing. You do, I bet you, but I don't know 4 that the rest of us do. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I don't know. I 7 don't, for sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the biggest problem we have 9 right now is we don't know what those preliminary -- even 10 preliminary numbers are. Commissioner Oehler's working on 11 the one for the stock show, Youth Exhibit Center. There's 12 some stuff kicking around with regard to the jail expansion. 13 And the architect, once we give him some direction on looking 14 at costs for this kind of expansion or this type of 15 expansion, we get -- that's the biggest problem we got right 16 now. We don't know what those numbers are so that we can 17 start putting together a package. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, even on -- do we know 19 what the projects are? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Not for sure, no. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. See, I just think 22 that we need to sit down, make those decisions, and make our 23 list up and check it twice. I just think that's the way we 24 should do it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- I agree with that. I 12-12-11 172 1 think maybe the first meeting in January -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First meeting in January? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- would be a good time. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'd like to -- let me 5 just finish here right quick. And what my desire is, is to 6 see -- go back -- let's see, this would be our third round of 7 the bonds? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third round? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third or fourth. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and what did -- 12 what did we borrow the first time? What were our projects? 13 And did we -- did we meet all those needs in those projects? 14 Did we have money left over, and how much money? And do the 15 same thing with the second one. 'Cause I know that we've had 16 some moneys that we've kind of been throwing aside for the Ag 17 Barn, as an example. But do you know how much? I don't. I 18 just think that we need to see that. Well, I'd like to see 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can tell you that we set 21 aside money to do the outdoor arena last year. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually, I think we 23 set it aside to do the indoor arena, and we moved it to the 24 outdoor arena. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we've done the outdoor; 12-12-11 173 1 not that much money. A lot more money to do the indoor. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Those are tax notes, correct? 3 That's what they're called, correct? Whatever they're 4 called. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Certificates of obligation. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: C.O.'s. 7 MS. HARGIS: I'm glad you're having this 8 discussion, because, you know, we -- I mean, I've been 9 approached by several people, and they keep coming. Road and 10 Bridge has a big list. The jail situation has now gone from 11 little to big again, and the problem we have with the jail is 12 that we had said that we could postpone that till 2015, and 13 we kind of based our debt service on that, on that level. 14 We'll be down to one issue as of next year, but it has some 15 pretty big payments, 'cause it -- you know, you made it so it 16 would level out. So, we -- you know, Commissioner Baldwin is 17 right; we need to know what we're going to do. I have seven 18 million that we used -- that we could spend money towards 19 engineering and things like that, but there are two projects 20 we know we absolutely have to do, and that -- one is the 21 bridge, and -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The wastewater. 23 MS. HARGIS: -- and the wastewater, and those are 24 the two that we do have a pretty solid number on. We know 25 our cost to TexDOT is 350,000. 12-12-11 174 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 2 MS. HARGIS: We're estimating our cost on the 3 Center Point thing at 450,000, and we've already kind of 4 obligated ourselves if we get that grant. And then the other 5 projects, I've been waiting for those numbers to call Bob 6 Henderson so he can give us a plan. I agree with you; we 7 need a plan. We don't really have very much money left from 8 any of the other issues. Remember, I reallocated the money 9 from the last issue, and you approved that list. The 10 Sheriff's buying those vehicles that he brought to you today 11 with that extra money. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How much was that? 13 MS. HARGIS: I think he got 150,000. And -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: There was about 250 remaining. 15 MS. HARGIS: No, there was close to -- what -- 16 about 500, and we allocated it to different -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: From the '07? 18 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We gave Road and Bridge -- not 19 the '07, in the '010 issue. There's not anything -- '07 20 issue's got maybe $25,000 left, and we're using that for I.T. 21 That's the first one we did. The '08 -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Not the cash balance reports that I 23 saw. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, the '08 and '09 issues don't 25 have that much in them. We have some left for the Ag Barn. 12-12-11 175 1 That's the only thing left in the '08 issue is the Ag Barn, 2 period. And then the -- the '10 issue, we took what was left 3 at budget; you got a schedule of that, of the money we had 4 remaining, and you reallocated that. I had all -- I 5 specifically spelled that out, 'cause I didn't want to spend 6 that money. You've reallocated it. You got the list in your 7 budget book that we reallocated, so there really isn't much 8 money from all the issues left, unless you want to reallocate 9 what the other people haven't spent. I will tell you that 10 the Sheriff bought his cars, and Leonard's already got his on 11 order, so those two are gone. 'Cause we're obligated to the 12 cost. But there's a little bit of money left from some of 13 the other line items, but it wasn't very much. Remember, 14 we're buying -- we gave some to the I.T. so that we could buy 15 all the new computers and the software. That was -- and I 16 think that was about it. There weren't very many items. I 17 can go back and pull that item, put them in your boxes, but 18 there's not much left. 19 The thing we have to be careful with is that we 20 want to keep the tax rate level at what you have today. I'm 21 assuming that's what you would like to do. And the debt 22 service rate, which is a very low rate, we want to keep it 23 there. But that determines -- the amount of money determines 24 how we structure it. We can still structure it to stay that 25 way, but we need to know how much we're going to go to the 12-12-11 176 1 market with. It would have been nice to go in January, 2 because January is the best time, especially in an election 3 year, and the year after election year. It's January that 4 you get lowest rates. Don't ask me why. It has worked that 5 way for 30 years; it's always good. And I think Bob 6 Henderson has sat up here and told you the same thing. 7 But -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has. 9 MS. HARGIS: -- the best rates are in January. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has; you're exactly right 11 about that. Now, let me just ask you a question, though. In 12 your crystal ball looking out in the future, do you see us 13 doing this again next year, issuing C.O.'s? 14 MS. HARGIS: I don't think we'll have the capacity 15 to issue any more C.O.'s with the costs that we're looking at 16 right now, so that means that if we need a bunch of capital 17 projects, we're going to have to -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to have to start 19 living inside of budget. 20 MS. HARGIS: Well, we're living inside of budget 21 now; we just haven't done any large capital items. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 23 MS. HARGIS: No one's really, I think -- other than 24 vehicles, and I -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty has vehicles coming up 12-12-11 177 1 this next round? 2 MS. HARGIS: He's got three. But he's got 12 or 3 20, I think, that he wants. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12 or 20? 5 MS. HARGIS: I can't remember. 6 MR. BOLLIER: I want a Tahoe. 7 MS. HARGIS: Because we bought a bunch of them all 8 at one time. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got an extra pickup now. 10 MR. BOLLIER: No, I don't. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's what I'm talking 12 about. We need to make a decision if we're going to get 12 13 Tahoes or 20 Tahoes. 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, you know, that's -- again, he 15 hasn't given me a wish list, but I know he brought that up. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, he doesn't get any 17 until he gives us a number. 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, and I think it's up to y'all to 19 make the decision on what's the most important for the county 20 right now. Is the most important thing for the county the Ag 21 Barn and these other facilities which will help our community 22 grow? Or is it cars that we still won't have 100,000 miles 23 on? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can't do both? 25 MS. HARGIS: Can't do both. 12-12-11 178 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is interesting. This 3 is good. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, what we also need to do 5 with that is, you know, figure out the age of a lot of the 6 cars and how many we bought of those other ones. We need to 7 keep track of that, because we are going to have to replace 8 the Sheriff's fleet again, and we did it all at one time, 9 basically, so we're going to have to do it again. So, it's 10 got to be built into, you know, whatever we're doing, because 11 we're not going to be able take out of our budget for 20 12 vehicles. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's got to -- the only way, 17 really, that we can do any kind of a large scale is going to 18 be through this C.O. or one of the -- and if we're not going 19 to be able to do another one for a while, we really have to 20 do, like, a three- to five-year plan. 21 MS. HARGIS: What we can do -- and I'm -- you know, 22 I'm not a financial adviser, but I've been around the post a 23 few times. We can take what we have left, and they -- and 24 refund that, and combine it and lengthen that. Lengthen that 25 out just a little bit. And the other reason I asked you if 12-12-11 179 1 you wanted to do the jail separately, if the jail's going to 2 end up being a very large project, I would suggest we put the 3 jail on a longer term. However, the longest term we can go 4 out for -- this was something that I didn't realize until 5 October -- is seven years without going to a bond issue. So, 6 we kind of got a problem. So, if we're going to build a 7 jail -- another full size jail, you know, we've talked 8 to 8 12 million dollars. That's a big project. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's getting -- what happened 10 to the minimum security building he was getting? 11 MR. BOLLIER: The 48-bed or whatever. 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, it sounded like a big project. 13 But do we do the other things that have come up? Do we do 14 all the stainless steel showers? Do we do a new alarm system 15 here in this building? Are we going to have to do an alarm 16 system in the building? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happened to the 48-bed 18 deal? 19 MR. BOLLIER: I don't know. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We started out talking about 21 minimum. Now, there's minimum-medium, which increases the 22 cost by a factor of probably at least four. 23 MR. HENNEKE: My recollection is that Rusty's 24 initial idea was to have two 48-bed minimum pods. And the 25 Jail Commission won't approve more than one 48 pod, because 12-12-11 180 1 they don't want jails to be you know, perpetually expanding 2 minimum. They want you to build the full jail, which is what 3 he -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was one 48 pod that we 5 went and looked at? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, see, that would help a 8 lot, just that one deal. I can't believe it's not still on 9 the table. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- to me, that -- that 11 is on the table. But I think what Rusty was also saying this 12 morning was that -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, he -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's not the problem. The 15 problem is getting it -- the courts. Until we solve that, 16 and that's not really -- we can't build our way out of that 17 problem, really. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've been saying that for 19 20 years that I know of, though. 20 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until you get a District 22 Attorney in here to make a commitment to run that stuff on 23 through, it ain't going to happen. 24 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. I mean, Rob's better at 25 this, but what I'm hearing from -- from both of the D.A.'s is 12-12-11 181 1 they don't have -- you know, it'd actually be cheaper for us 2 to hire an attorney for each one of them to move them through 3 the court system if we had to, rather than build a big jail. 4 But they don't have enough; they're spread too thin, as the 5 judges are. We share them. That's our biggest problem. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably true. That 7 probably is. 8 MS. HARGIS: You know, we're sharing them. One -- 9 one attorney is spending a whole lot of time in Bandera. But 10 I -- if you like, what I'd like for us to do is see what 11 January brings as far as projects like this project, and let 12 Rusty kind of settle in on his, and then have a workshop and 13 bring Bob Henderson in, and let's just zone in on this issue, 14 because it's a big issue. I want to be sure that we have -- 15 that we have a tax rate we can live with and you get the 16 facilities that you can, and we don't squeeze ourselves 17 capital-wise so that we can't do anything in the future. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 19 MS. HARGIS: So -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, if we wind up 21 having to put a big addition on that jail, there's not but 22 one way to get that money; that's to go out for bond. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, if we're going to do 25 a stopgap thing with 48, but basically a portable building, 12-12-11 182 1 somehow or another, we can probably absorb that. But if 2 we're talking about doing a maximum deal, there is no way. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's got to be a bond issue. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it should be. 6 MS. HARGIS: Because your payments are just too 7 big. You're talking probably $12 million, and you need 20 8 years to pay out $12 million. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It should be the people that 10 make that decision on that deal. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has to be. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's pretty simple. Do you 13 want bad people walking around the streets, or do you want 14 them locked up? I mean, that's -- that's my -- that's the 15 question I ask myself. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, I just -- that 17 just -- when that happens, maintenance and operations goes 18 way up too. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does, no question. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That makes more taxes on the 21 tax rate just to cover M & O. You got more bodies, more 22 cars, more everything. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: More cars. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you didn't know I was 25 the liaison to all this stuff, did you? 12-12-11 183 1 MS. HARGIS: And the reason, because they changed 2 the election law. I mean, the election laws, we have to put 3 that form in November. So, if we decide not to do the jail, 4 then it would have to go on the November, so he's going to 5 have to live with it for a while. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- I think your idea of a 7 workshop on capital needs, capital projects, right after the 8 first of the year, hopefully we will have a better handle on 9 these numbers that we need to give us a good starting point. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty's just trying to come 11 in -- you know he's trying to get that thing up to a -- 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Been growing. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, more than what he 14 was saying that he needed in the beginning. I'm going to be 15 nice about this. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim wants to talk about 17 showers. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, I do. My question is, you 19 know, Rusty hit me up just last week, and he's saying we had 20 to have the showers in place. Well, does he mean A.S.A.P.? 21 Next month? Next year, or what? Because the only -- the 22 question I have is, if the State comes back in here, can -- 23 can they shut that jail down because of that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 25 MR. BOLLIER: I mean, if it's not replaced? That's 12-12-11 184 1 the only question I had. 2 MS. HARGIS: Well, we don't have -- we could -- we 3 don't have the money to replace all of them, Tim, so they 4 can't -- 5 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I'm saying. Where's that 6 money supposed to come from? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Did they give a timeframe for 8 you to make those adjustments? 9 MS. HARGIS: Again, I think we need Rusty to come 10 back with all of that. But I am going to ask every 11 department head to come up with a capital list for the 12 future. That way you'll have an idea of what every 13 department wants, including yours. We have a lot of new 14 trucks. I mean, when I first came here, we had some trucks 15 that were really, really old. These guys have really kept 16 good care of what they have. They're fairly new right now, 17 today. But the economy maybe will start to come back. They 18 say in some parts of the country, it's starting to look a 19 little bit better. We're seeing some other things come 20 around here, you know, restaurants and different things being 21 built. So, you know, it might be better to ease into this 22 situation, and do with what we have to have, and look at the 23 cars and things like that in the future. But, nevertheless, 24 a list from everybody. You guys will review them; you tell 25 us what you want, and we put a package together. 12-12-11 185 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic stuff. You're 2 going to send out an inquiry? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3-year list, 4-year list, 4 5-year list? What are you going to do? 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm going to get a list from 6 them. I'll ask them to prioritize them according to when 7 they need them, and then you guys will make those decisions. 8 I'll never make that decision. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I was 10 wanting. Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do think we need to do this 12 in January, just like what -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and a workshop -- in a 14 workshop setting. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I agree. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is all -- this is all 17 hopefully going to happen, but if it can't happen, that's the 18 way it is. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope it does, too. It's a 20 priority to me. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is to me, because we're -- 22 we're kind of in a mess out there. Anyway -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're just chatting. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Do we have any reports from 25 elected officials or department heads? 12-12-11 186 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 2 MR. HENNEKE: We started taking credit card 3 payments this morning for the hot check restitution that's 4 online. We took our first payment today, and hope that will 5 help us get that money faster, get it back to the merchants. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we taking it for fines and costs 7 too? 8 MS. PIEPER: We have been in our office. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: We have it in many areas. Just a 11 quick thing. I'm going to be on vacation the second week -- 12 the last week in December. 13 MR. BOLLIER: I thought you just got off vacation. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought that too. She's 15 been on vacation -- 16 MR. BOLLIER: You were on vacation for two weeks, 17 and you just got back last week. 18 MS. HARGIS: I'm going anyway. So -- 19 MR. BOLLIER: I don't want to hear any more things 20 on your computer about me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to read my book. 22 MS. HARGIS: What's that? Never get any rest? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell her about the book. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: "How to Win Friends and Influence 25 People." Here we are sitting here struggling with money, and 12-12-11 187 1 you say, "Oh, by the way, I'm going on vacation. See you, 2 boys." 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, see, I have -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hawaii. 5 MS. HARGIS: -- I have to clear my head to make 6 sure that I, you know, get enough work for you. 7 MS. LAVENDER: Judge, on a -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Timing is everything. Yours was not 9 good. 10 MS. LAVENDER: If you all haven't looked back at 11 the indigent health costs, our new indigent health clerk is 12 continuing the good and efficient management of our program, 13 and it's amazing. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Last report I saw, the only charge 15 was for the software. 16 MS. LAVENDER: That's right. It's pretty much, I 17 think, $7 for drugs or something like that. I mean, it's 18 incredible. So, y'all need to give her an "attaboy" when you 19 see her. She's really doing a good job. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fantastic. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we could get Rusty to 22 operate like that. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: For seven bucks? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We will give you that charge. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I don't have that; 12-12-11 188 1 Buster's got it now. Didn't work for me either. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's impossible. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, gentlemen? 4 We're adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 STATE OF TEXAS | 9 COUNTY OF KERR | 10 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 11 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 12 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 13 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 14 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of December, 15 2011. 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-12-11