1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, January 9, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 9, 2012 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 4 accept preliminary revision of plat for Lots 3 & 4 of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I, Pct. 4; 5 set a public hearing 11 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final private road name of Rocoso Ranch 7 Road South, Pct. 4 12 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on a request from American Auxiliary Unit 208 for use 9 of Flat Rock Lake Park for 4th annual "Here’s to the Heroes" Easter Fest/Cookoff April 6-7, 2012 12 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve a purchasing policy for Kerr County; and raise capital outlay unit cost from $1,000 12 to $5,000 22 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding lease between Kerr County and Kerrville 14 Youth Baseball & Softball Association (KYBSA) 24 15 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on auditor’s report regarding two previous tax 16 anticipation notes 27 17 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for further direction regarding reallocation of 18 remaining funds in CDBG grant 710065 for possible use outside colonia areas on various OSSF/ 19 wastewater projects 42 20 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set public hearing and publication of notice thereof 21 on Order Adopting Rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-Site Sewage Facilities 55 22 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to open 23 and award bids for Clean Water State Revolving Fund grant for planning phase for Center Point 24 wastewater collection system for legal services, engineering services, financial adviser services, 25 and bond attorney 57 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 9, 2012 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 Art-2-Heart presentation from Lorraine LeMon 60 4 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set date for workshop to discuss capital projects 5 which will be included in new tax anticipation note 68 6 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 approve license agreement with Pictometry International Corp. and authorize County Judge 8 to sign same 73 9 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to designate Commissioners’ and Judge’s liaison 10 appointments for various functions for calendar year 2012 83 11 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 reappoint Bud Fawcett and appoint Greg Meyer to Kerr County Emergency Services District #1 13 Board of Commissioners for 2-year term 85 14 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding hunting and discharge of firearms 15 on small tracts of land 86 16 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to determine why Court Order #32341 was not included 17 in FY 11/12 Budget 105 18 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contracts for another year with AirLife 19 and Air Evac by offering payroll deduction to employees through county payroll system; allow 20 County Judge to sign same 117 21 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve lease agreement with Ikon for copier for 22 Human Resources Department; allow County Judge to sign same 118 23 1.19 Update on Airport Planning Committee meeting 125 24 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 designate a wellness coordinator and wellness sponsor for Kerr County 129 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 9, 2012 2 PAGE 3 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding revisions on current county personnel 4 policies regarding categories of employment, vacation benefits, sick leave benefits, holidays, 5 and bereavement leave 134 6 4.1 Pay Bills 138 4.2 Budget Amendments 139 7 4.3 Late Bills 142 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 143 8 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 9 Assignments --- 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 144 10 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 11 regarding pending litigation matter, Kerr County, Texas vs. eGovernment Technologies, Inc., et. al. 12 (Executive session) --- 13 1.23 Update and discussion regarding Mooney lease at Kerrville-Kerr County Airport (Executive Session) --- 14 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 15 in Executive Session 163 16 --- Adjourned 164 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, January 9, 2012, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, January the 9th, 2012, at 9 a.m. It 11 is that time now. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. If you would join me in 13 a word of prayer, followed by the pledge. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the audience or public 17 that wishes to be heard on a matter which is not a listed 18 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 19 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on an 20 agenda item, we'd prefer that you fill out a participation 21 form. There should be some located at the rear of the room. 22 That gives me the opportunity to know that there's someone 23 wanting to be heard when we do get to that item. If, for 24 some reason, you wish to be heard on an item and you have not 25 filled out a participation form, merely get my attention when 1-9-12 6 1 we get to that item; I will give you that opportunity. But 2 right now, if there's any member of the audience or public 3 that wishes to be heard on any matter which is not a listed 4 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward, give 5 us your name and address, and tell us what's on your mind. 6 Seeing no one coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner 7 Oehler -- I'm sorry? 8 MS. HAYES: I'm sorry. I'm filling out the 9 participation form. Do I say something now or later? I'm 10 sorry; I was filling it out. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this on an agenda item? 12 MS. HAYES: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You can go ahead and fill 14 that out and you can give it to the lady; she'll be seated up 15 here in just a moment, and she'll get it to me. 16 MS. HAYES: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: When we get to that agenda item, 18 I'll then give you the opportunity to be heard. 19 MS. HAYES: Okay, thank you. I'm sorry to 20 interrupt. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. Commissioner 22 Oehler? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Attended the Hill Country 24 Stock Show appreciation dinner on Saturday night, kind of 25 showed the plan to a lot of people that were there. It was 1-9-12 7 1 met with -- with warm reception, and they tend to agree. I 2 didn't have any negatives from even the people that normally 3 have negatives, so that made me feel pretty good. And it was 4 well attended, and just hope we can move forward. But that's 5 all I got. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was also at that dinner, 8 and I heard several comments on Bruce's issue, and all 9 positive. Everything was so positive. But one thing that 10 was said is -- it's the first time my wife and I had been to 11 one of those in numerous years, and we left, and she made the 12 comment that, "Those people are really a family, aren't 13 they?" And it's kind of a neat -- that's kind of an 14 interesting thing, how those guys get along, those 15 agricultural-minded people get along together like that as a 16 family. I just thought that was an interesting comment. I 17 don't know that I have anything else, Judge. Got a huge 18 agenda. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Overby? 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, basically just 21 reiterate again what Commissioner Oehler and Baldwin said. 22 Enjoyed the appreciation dinner on Saturday night. I would 23 just like to say that, again, Commissioner Oehler, the 24 comments that I had back were so many positive comments on 25 the initial drawings that were up, and just comments on the 1-9-12 8 1 potential part of moving forward with the ag facility 2 improvements, so that went very well. I do want to bring 3 attention to the Court again; you'll recall back -- we had a 4 resolution that we passed on November 14th of last year 5 regarding the air quality permit out in Center Point on the 6 Wheatcraft request on their application. One of the 7 resolution comments that we requested of T.C.E.Q. was to 8 request for a public information meeting, which we are going 9 to be doing on Thursday at 7 o'clock at the Center Point 10 Cafeteria, to give those folks an opportunity who sent in 11 requests for that public hearing request, so that they can 12 come and talk about air quality issues as far as that 13 potential application out in east Kerr County. So, that will 14 be happening at 7 o'clock. I'll be out there again with that 15 meeting, and helping -- help T.C.E.Q. and folks that have 16 questions on that to have those questions asked at that time. 17 That's it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Likewise, like the rest of the 20 Court, I was at the dinner, and remarkably, I don't think I 21 even talked to hardly any of y'all, which was nice. 22 (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're getting used to that. 25 It's fine. 1-9-12 9 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good time. Same comments 2 everybody else made, I agree with. The other item I have is 3 that I'm sure it's been in the paper, and if it hasn't been 4 in the paper, the word is certainly out about Aqua Texas 5 going for a rate increase, and I have just had my phone 6 ringing off the wall about that, receiving letters. People 7 are really irritated with that, and I've been telling them we 8 really don't have a dog in that fight directly. But I still 9 may come back with a resolution on that, because the one I'm 10 hearing the biggest problems from are in the eastern part of 11 the county, Falling Water, The Reserve. They have water 12 quality problems, and Aqua Texas has for years, probably 13 eight years now, said they're going to drill a second well to 14 try to resolve the problem with radon in the water. They've 15 done nothing. They're way above state standards, and it's 16 kind of difficult for the public to go along with a rate 17 increase when accompanying that, it's just not fulfilling its 18 current needs for the people. So, I know that's a big issue 19 to a lot of people. I don't get water, thank goodness, from 20 Aqua Texas, but I know a lot that do. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got some of those e-mails 22 too, one in particular. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I too have had an opportunity to 25 examine what Aqua Texas is requesting, and basically, if you 1-9-12 10 1 use zero water, but you're a customer in one of their 2 systems, you're going to pay a base rate of generally -- I 3 think the lowest rate is somewhere around $25 to $35 for zero 4 usage. Some of those rates are going to go up approximately 5 70 percent. Virtually all of them are going up considerably. 6 The -- the difficulty is that the regulatory agencies that 7 consider those issues have allowed Aqua Texas to go on a 8 regionalization basis where they file for all of their 9 systems which are located in a rather wide area, as opposed 10 to the old system whereby each system would stand on its own. 11 They would have to justify increases based upon costs in that 12 system, improvements to be made to that system. Essentially, 13 what I see Aqua Texas doing is -- is going out and buying a 14 bunch of smaller systems that need significant improvements. 15 They're -- they're just a maintenance headache; therefore, 16 requiring a lot of upgrading, and throwing that upgrade need 17 and the cost associated with it on the backs of all of their 18 customers in the entire region. It's a really, really tough 19 proposition to try and fight, because as an individual 20 customer, you're left fighting this huge conglomerate, which, 21 by the way, is based out of Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's just virtually impossible 24 to fight those folks. They've just got an iron grip on the 25 throats of everybody that's their customer. I -- I wish I 1-9-12 11 1 had the solution. I'd lay it out and we'd see if we couldn't 2 help them with it. But I think the folks are -- are very, 3 very justified. I think the rate return of those people that 4 are actually receiving it is phenomenal, and we're just 5 getting it stuck to us down here in the rural areas. Let's 6 get on with our meeting. We've got a number of items. First 7 item is a 9 o'clock item; to consider, discuss, and take 8 appropriate action to accept the preliminary revision of plat 9 for Lots 3 and 4 of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I, set 10 forth in Volume 7, Page 12, Plat Records, and set a public 11 hearing, same being located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom. Good 12 morning, sir. 13 MR. ODOM: Good morning, sir. The Smith family 14 owns Lots 3 and 4 in Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I. The 15 Smiths would like to combine Lots 3 and 4 together, making 16 Lot 3R, a total of 4.7 acres. At this time, we ask the Court 17 to accept the preliminary revision of plat for Lots 3 and 4 18 of Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I, Volume 7, Page 12, and 19 set a public hearing for Monday, February the 13th, 2012, at 20 9 a.m. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval to set a public hearing on the matter as requested. 25 Discussion? Comments? All in favor of the motion, signify 1-9-12 12 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 6 Item Number 2, which is a 9:05 timed item; to consider, 7 discuss, take appropriate action to approve final private 8 road name of Rocoso Ranch Road South, same being located in 9 Precinct 4. Mr. Odom again. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have the property owners 11 there on this private road, and they have requested through 12 the 911 office the name Rocoso Ranch Road South. This road 13 is a privately maintained road located in Precinct 4. So, at 14 this time, we ask the Court for their final approval of the 15 private road name of Rocoso Ranch Road South, Precinct 4. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of that 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 25 Item 3; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 1-9-12 13 1 request from the American Legion Auxiliary Unit 208 for the 2 use of Flat Rock Lake Park for the Fourth Annual "Here's to 3 the Heroes" Easter Fest and Cook-off April 6 and 7, 2012. 4 The agenda the indicates that Bliss Vickers requested this 5 item be placed -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll speak on their behalf. 7 I talked with Ms. Vickers last week, and, Commissioners, 8 again, this is the fourth annual "Here's to the Heroes" 9 Easter Festival and Cook-off. It will be held April 6th-7th, 10 2012. Anticipating about 2,000 folks for this event, and 11 it's been growing each year. Same request that they've come 12 to Commissioners Court again about the camping and the sale 13 of alcohol, beer, and wine in the park, and no vehicle 14 traffic from Saturday -- all the same requests that they've 15 made previously. The only addition that Ms. Vickers is 16 asking on behalf of the American Legion Auxiliary Unit 208 is 17 that they are requesting this year to barricade the entrance 18 off the Riverside Drive by the county Road and Bridge area. 19 They want to man that barricade basically for safety issues, 20 but allow anyone with a trailer boat to have access to the 21 boat ramp, but they'll be up the there during that time. And 22 so with that, again, I'm glad to hear that this is a -- an 23 event that continues to grow each year in our county, and we 24 appreciate everything that our veterans do in our community, 25 and the American Legion. So, with that, I'd like to make a 1-9-12 14 1 motion on this for Ms. Vickers and helping the American 2 Legion and these requests. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 5 approval of the agenda item. Question or comments? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we are -- there's not 7 going to be any vehicular traffic down in the park itself? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: From -- Saturday, from 10:00 9 to 6:00. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- I just don't 11 know about this barricading a road, not allowing people to go 12 down. If I wanted to go down with my boat and go fishing -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And that is what they're 14 saying, that they'll -- what they want to do to keep 15 everybody happy during that time. They've had some issues 16 with traffic coming in with big boats, and somebody -- what 17 they're wanting to do is to close off that coming off 18 Riverside Drive, and then people that are coming with boats, 19 they'll help them get down. But they want to be able to have 20 somebody there to kind of help show them where to come in at, 21 so it's more of a safety issue and those type of things. 22 Apparently, in the past, Commissioner, they've had issues 23 with people getting in there and having log jams and those 24 different type of things, so this is something -- they're 25 just wanting to close off that road, and they'll kind of 1-9-12 15 1 watch it during that time. So, it's a request for the first 2 time. Apparently it's been an issue in the past. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why can't they just barricade 4 off the entrance? Because the boat ramp is outside of the 5 fence. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the part I don't 8 understand. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I don't like the idea 10 of -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Where would you like to have 12 them barricaded at? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just where the gate is, 14 put -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: At the entrance? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Entrance to the park, because 17 the boat ramp is outside of that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, I don't see that 20 that's a problem. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. And, again, I'm just 22 telling you from what their request was. They've been out 23 there, and some of this -- obviously, it's growing each year. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know what the boat 25 ramp has to do with what goes on inside of the cable area. 1-9-12 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I'm 2 speculating here, 'cause I've not talked to Ms. Vickers, but 3 I suspect it's used as a parking lot, and traffic gets 4 crowded and it's difficult for boats to get in and out. If 5 it's just congestion, if that's the case, well, then, that 6 makes sense. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That probably would be it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't know where else -- 9 if you close the park, they can't drive into the park to 10 park, so they got to park somewhere, either Riverside Drive 11 or boat ramp. I agree, the boat ramp still needs to be 12 accessible to the public. 13 MR. HENNEKE: But you -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: There's always been a considerable 15 number of cars parking off of the area -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Up and down. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- where you go into the boat ramp, 18 and I suspect what has happened is that due to the density of 19 the parking there, when somebody came in with a boat, they 20 were having trouble navigating their way in, getting their 21 boat back in there. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. If that's 23 what's happening, I understand. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 1-9-12 17 1 MR. HENNEKE: So you would have private citizens 2 blocking the -- the public road? Or would that be -- are 3 they asking for law enforcement to regulate traffic going 4 down to the boat ramp? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What they're asking for, if I 6 understand it, would be to close that off. They would man a 7 barricade, the members of the Legion, and if somebody came 8 with a boat that needed to put their boat in the water, they 9 would allow them through, so that they could put their boat 10 in the water. But for general parking, no, it wouldn't be 11 available for general parking. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I think it could be 14 handled by some relatively inexpensive -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Law enforcement? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not barricades, but, like, some 17 -- I mean, let that part of the boat ramp -- just leave that 18 open to the public, and then cordon off the other area over 19 there. It's a pretty big area. You could use that -- just 20 use that yellow tape, you know, as opposed to posts or 21 something like that, and kind of say, "No parking in this 22 area," or "No access though the area except for boats." Put 23 some kind of a sign up. I think Maintenance could probably 24 work on that. I don't think it would be a big cost to speak 25 of. Any cost would be to the group putting it on. I mean, I 1-9-12 18 1 think it's -- I'd hate to have somebody with a boat go over 2 there and not be able to get in there because they can't find 3 a person to let them in. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think what they're 5 requesting is -- what they're saying to me, again, is that 6 they'd have somebody there to help them with that issue. Not 7 like saying we're not having anybody to watch it. So, 8 what -- like I said, I want to hear what everybody's got to 9 say on it. We want to try to help them as much as we can. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we approve the date, 11 and hold off on that particular part of the item? And we'll 12 get further information as to how we're going to handle 13 access to the boat ramp. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, we'll approve the items 15 of their request for the camping and the opportunity to sell 16 the -- the beverages over the time? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything except the barricading of 18 that road. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll go out with Ms. Vickers; 20 we'll take a look and come back to the Court and kind of try 21 to find something -- find something a little bit more that we 22 can work with her on that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a second. So, County 24 Attorney, did you have a specific concern about who would be 25 there managing the ingress/egress? 1-9-12 19 1 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Authority? 3 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. And -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell us what that is. 5 MR. HENNEKE: Well, you know, the Court might close 6 a road, but as far as private citizens having, you know, 7 authority to tell somebody that wants to access a public 8 road, "You can't come down here," I don't know that we can 9 vest them with that authority. And that -- you know, I have 10 a concern that it, you know, could cause a problem if you 11 have, you know, someone from the Legion or volunteer citizens 12 saying, "The road's closed 'cause we say so." I mean, if 13 it's -- you know, if we close it -- you know, law enforcement 14 certainly can close a road, but as far as -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 16 MR. HENNEKE: -- someone without county authority 17 there trying to exercise rights -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So you recommend a law 19 enforcement person there, then? 20 MR. HENNEKE: Well let's look at it. I mean, if 21 there's time to bring it back, I think -- I'm not sure I 22 quite understand, from listening, exactly what area they 23 need. And maybe it could just be blocked off to not 24 interfere with access for the public to the boat ramp, and to 25 give them the space they need, and wouldn't have to have 1-9-12 20 1 anybody granting access or -- or, you know, having a 2 barricade or anything. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Sheriff has a comment. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that closing Riverside? Or 6 just the -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- parking lot area? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Basically, the parking lot 10 area, the area down by the boat area. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only issue, I think like 12 Jonathan said, it needs to be looked at, 'cause unless 13 they're parking up on Riverside Drive after that, there's no 14 parking area for them down in there. And I think it's going 15 to create a -- a strong hazard that I'm not sure I want 16 officers out there manning it. If officers are, it's going 17 to have to be off-duty, and Legion's going to have to 18 contract with those officers individually for providing that. 19 It's not something that's just given to them. But there's a 20 lot of issues that -- you know, are they going to get them to 21 park over at the Ag Barn area and walk across? And are they 22 going to be watching that road? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: If they're having the kind of 24 crowd that they're anticipating, boy, I would like to think 25 the Sheriff -- 1-9-12 21 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's going to have to be 2 some thought given to parking down there, I think. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, do you want the Court 4 to take action on everything except that one aspect of it, or 5 do you want to bring the whole thing back? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I don't know. I'd like to go 7 ahead and take action on what they've requested, and I will 8 follow back up on the parking issues and with the -- the 9 parking area down by the boat ramp. I'll meet with her, go 10 out with the folks. I may even call Rusty and have his guys 11 come out, see what recommendations you would recommend as 12 well, and then I'll bring that part back as far as what part 13 needs to be closed, if at all, at a later time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your motion is to do all aspects 15 except that barricading -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- right off Riverside Drive, the 18 area going to the boat ramp? 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That'll be correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And I assume, since you seconded and 21 made the recommendation, that's okay with you? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Everybody understand 24 what's before the Court at this time? All in favor, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 1-9-12 22 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 4; 5 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve a 6 purchasing policy for Kerr County, and raising capital outlay 7 unit cost from $1,000 to $5,000. Ms. Hargis? 8 MS. HARGIS: I brought this up at the last meeting, 9 and I was requested to send out an e-mail to all the elected 10 officials, and I didn't receive any feedback from any of 11 them. They're all working with me on this issue. And so -- 12 and as far as the purchasing policy, it's really more of a 13 signing situation, and they're all doing their best to work 14 with me on it, so I appreciate that. The second part is the 15 capital cost raising from $1,000 to $5,000. This will save 16 us a lot of auditing cost, because $1,000 worth of items, you 17 know, is -- you know, costs have gone up. Generally, you 18 can't depreciate 1,000 very long, so 5,000 is a depreciable 19 type of an item. That cuts down the audit. Now, we still 20 watch everything and look at all that, but if we could just 21 raise the limit. That's what it's been in most entities for 22 a long time, because the auditors have to look at almost 23 everything when you do that. It'll save us a little time and 24 some money with our audit fees. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the capital amount part of 1-9-12 23 1 the purchasing policy, or is that a separate item? 2 MS. HARGIS: Separate. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should do these as 4 two -- I have no problem, but I think it should be done as 5 two separate motions to keep track, because I think one's a 6 policy, and one's a -- different policy. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The purchasing policy is a policy 8 that you recommended to put in place as a result of the 9 outside auditor recommendations resulting from their last -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it is. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: And it's a very simple policy, just a 13 matter of signing invoices. That's really, basically, what 14 we've got. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 16 approve the purchasing policy as submitted. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the purchasing policy as tendered. Question or 20 discussion on that motion? All in favor, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 1-9-12 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 2 raise the capital outlay unit cost from $1,000 to $5,000. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the capital outlay unit cost being raised from 6 $1,000 to $5,000. Question or discussion? All in favor, 7 signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Thank you, Ms. 12 Hargis. Item 5, to consider, discuss, take appropriate 13 action regarding the lease between Kerr County and the 14 Kerrville Youth Baseball and Softball Association. 15 Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is really a very quick 17 update. The County Attorney made a -- has written a draft 18 agreement that has been given to Doug Robertson with Little 19 League -- or Kerrville Youth Baseball/Softball Association. 20 They're in the process of trying to find an attorney that 21 will do some pro bono work in representing them. It's kind 22 of at that point right now. I visited with Doug the other 23 day, and I said if need be, we can probably put it on our 24 next agenda to continue the current lease on a month-to-month 25 basis until this is resolved. That lease is up -- I believe, 1-9-12 25 1 it's February 12th -- 9th or 12th, one of those two, but it's 2 coming up. Just so there's no issues, 'cause they have to 3 have insurance and all that stuff, just to clear it up. But 4 I think it's going to be resolved pretty quick. And the 5 agreement is relatively simple. They, I believe, are looking 6 at -- one of the attorneys that they were hoping to use 7 wasn't able to do it, and so they're -- I believe they're 8 looking at two other attorneys to help Little League. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the length of the 10 lease? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty years. Over the 12 concerns of the County Attorney, it's still at 20 years. It 13 was just -- and the concern is that's just a long time. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He brought -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm on his side. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- what was it -- what 19 is the lease right now? What was the length? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty years. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Was it 20? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Twenty. So, that -- 23 MS. GRINSTEAD: Twenty-five. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty-five. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's reducing. It's 1-9-12 26 1 not -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- growing, okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It -- yeah. The -- and they 5 haven't really responded. I mean, it's kind of a -- you 6 know, it's a shell document right now. If you recall the way 7 that -- the direction we're trying to go is for a new -- the 8 County will make a lease with a new entity that is to be 9 created by the baseball folks -- Youth Baseball folks in the 10 county, and that will be probably a five-member board; two 11 members from Little League, two members from other baseball, 12 and one at large, kind of the thought that we've been talking 13 about. We will lease with that group, and then that group 14 will be responsible for working with Little League, select 15 baseball, Notre Dame; they use the softball. So, it's kind 16 of a -- you know, to simplify it from our standpoint, we deal 17 with one entity, and that entity's responsible for working 18 with other entities. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I saw Saturday -- they were 20 working on the field Saturday. So I'm fine with, you know, 21 going month-to-month until they get some help there, and we 22 will help them any way we can. That's good. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's kind of the update 24 on it. And, really, the next step is for them to get counsel 25 and -- 1-9-12 27 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- come back with some 3 modifications to the agreement. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this thing's gone on a 5 long time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we started this what, 7 three years ago? We started working? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. Good volunteers and 9 parents out there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do a lot of work. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good job. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were able to, with 13 recycling -- they got with the high school, got all the used 14 Astro Turf off the football field, and they have reused that 15 for batting cages, and I believe their plan is to put Astro 16 Turf on the entire T-ball field for maintenance issues 17 long-term. And they've done all the work. They had, like, 18 90 volunteers over there Saturday working and doing all this. 19 So, a lot going on. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 8; consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action on auditor's report 24 regarding the two previous tax anticipation notes, report to 25 include original amount of each tax anticipation note, wish 1-9-12 28 1 list used to term determine the amount of each, how many 2 items on the list were purchased, how much money, if any, 3 remains from each note, and where those funds are located. 4 Ms. Hargis? 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, I have -- this is the 2010 6 issue, if you'll each take one. Just one. Oh, you got to 7 give her one. And then this is the '08 issue. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Surprised to find it stapled in the 9 upper left-hand corner. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Isn't that something? 11 MS. HARGIS: If we can go through the '08 issue, 12 what I was requested, as I understand it, on the agenda item 13 is to bring you the original requests. So, the first copy on 14 the '08 issue is the original request of -- of the 15 participants. The second page is the actual requests. The 16 first column reflects the breakdown by item, and the total 17 amount that was actually issued then to each area. For 18 example, on I.T., 228,655. They have spent 226,230.93, 19 leaving 2,424.07. And -- and it follows down. In the ag 20 facility, there's still 110,950.87 remaining. Courthouse 21 repairs, 44,306.47. Road and Bridge has 1,100, basically. 22 And then left out of the Environmental Health was 5,063.63. 23 We actually had a deficit in the bond issue cost, which then 24 brought us to 162,907.48. Interest income of 25,654.35, for 25 a total today of 188,561.83 remaining in that issue. 1-9-12 29 1 The back pages are just Mindy's reconciliation. 2 Between the two of us, in the beginning of the issue, she 3 reconciled the cash; I reconciled the general ledger. We 4 made sure every 30 days that this matched, and we -- we did 5 this every 30 days on this issue, as well as the other issue, 6 to make sure that we were agreeing on the expenditures that 7 she'd pay. The capital items are considered a -- not a 8 totally restricted fund, but it's a semi-restricted fund. It 9 is -- must be set up in its own fund. The items that are 10 approved in this, you first must issue all of the things that 11 you requested generally, you know, in the general items that 12 you approve. Once that is finished -- and in my prior job, 13 we called it "surplus," but today I think it's -- the term 14 would be "unused funds." Then at that point, you come back 15 to the Court. The Court then reallocates those funds, which 16 is what we've done with cars and other items as we've gone 17 along. 18 We haven't reallocated this one because of the fact 19 that the -- the ag is the biggest piece of this puzzle, and 20 we were still working on it, so I didn't bring it back to you 21 to reallocate, because, again, you had not completed that 22 item. So, until that item is complete, any of the unused 23 funds then must go towards that item until it is complete. 24 You -- your tax anticipation notes are general notes. In 25 other words, you come up with general items that you want. 1-9-12 30 1 They're not necessarily -- you're not tied to them, and this 2 is purposely done to give you a little bit of leeway, so that 3 if you do come out with unused funds, then you have the 4 ability to reallocate those. This particular issue has kind 5 of been going on for a long time, because we knew ag was the 6 biggest portion of it, and we wanted to make sure that there 7 was enough funds there. So, when we did the -- the budget, I 8 did not give you this, because we had not finished the ag 9 facility, and didn't really know what -- how much unused 10 funds you had, but now you know. I can bring that back when 11 we have the workshop, and you can reallocate those or leave 12 them the same. That's up to you. We don't approve any 13 expenditures out of these unless we bring them to you and you 14 have approved that expenditure in advance. This has to be 15 done in advance of -- of spending, versus the way we do it in 16 the general fund. On the 2010 issue -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 18 Let's stay on '08 just for a second, please. The unused -- 19 the total funds available. 20 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you say that we're -- 22 the Ag Barn's -- or the ag expansion has 110,000 to go to it. 23 Are there -- is there any other part of the total funds 24 available that are truly earmarked -- 25 MS. HARGIS: No. 1-9-12 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- toward -- 2 MS. HARGIS: No, because those projects are totally 3 complete. The courthouse is done, and we -- and, you know, 4 that was the window project, and it's been signed off on. 5 The other items, we've -- we've pretty much used those items 6 up. This was not a two-year issue, but we kind of pulled it 7 to be a two-year issue on computers. I had requested that we 8 have some money left available for computers and software. 9 We will need to, in my department, request Incode to assist 10 us to rewrite the reports that we give to you under the new 11 GASB 54 requirements, which means we're pretty much going to 12 have to eliminate most of the funds that you now see today. 13 You'll only see a general fund. There's not a report right 14 now that will pull that. Also, we need to be able to 15 identify those revenues, just like we have in the past, so 16 that we can see if they're running, and we can't do that 17 either. Generally speaking, they charge us quite a bit to do 18 those reports. They don't give us the ability to write 19 those. In some software programs, they do, but Incode does 20 not. We need that, and also if John runs into problems with 21 servers crashing, computers not making their three-year life 22 span, then we need a little bit. How much that is is up to 23 the Court. I would like to see at least maybe 20,000. I'll 24 get with John and see if we can justify that. However, 25 again, that's up to the Court. That's just my request 1-9-12 32 1 personally. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you take a deep breath 3 just for a second and let me ask a question? So, the total 4 funds available, that 188, if you -- if you took the ag 5 expansion money, the 110, and subtracted it from the 188, the 6 remainder of that amount, then, is free to move to other 7 places? 8 MS. HARGIS: Other capital items. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Other capital items, of 10 course. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right, thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to follow up on that a 14 little bit, if I could. Would it not make sense to -- I 15 mean, I'm thinking more -- 'cause, I mean, we presented what 16 we were going to spend this money on to the taxpayers. 17 Wouldn't it make sense that we then allocate all of that 18 money to the Ag Barn, which is the one item left, and then 19 kind of clean up this bond issue and say, okay, that 188, the 20 full balance remaining goes to the Ag Barn. 'Cause that's 21 the one project that we're still getting ready to do, and 22 we're probably going to -- I mean, my personal feeling -- 23 hope is that we're going to reallocate more than that of 24 these funds to that ag project coming up. 25 MS. HARGIS: Again, that's the Court's decision. 1-9-12 33 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 2 MS. HARGIS: I'll follow whatever you tell me. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, we can. Is there a -- 4 on this fund, is there a life on the thing? I mean, is there 5 a certain amount of time that -- 6 MS. HARGIS: The arbitrage is five years, so we're 7 getting pretty close to that five years. So, we -- we -- 8 however, the one -- you can get an extension -- actually, 9 it's three years with an extension of two years if the 10 engineering doesn't get done. But we're kind of touching on 11 that pretty close here now, so these funds need to be 12 earmarked. As long as -- as I.R.S. -- again, this becomes an 13 I.R.S. issue. If they know that you're working on the 14 project, that it's active, that then they will go along with 15 you. I haven't -- this is not a $5 million issue where we 16 would actually do reporting to I.R.S., so we're a little bit 17 safer. But I -- I tend to use that arbitrage rule, and I'd 18 like to stick by it as close as possible. It's more or less 19 an I.R.S. situation. And, I mean, we don't have to spend it, 20 but they -- because people many years ago took the interest 21 money, or left money there, earned interest on it, and moved 22 it to their general fund, I.R.S. came up with arbitrage, and 23 that's what we have to be careful of. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so the -- just one more, 25 and then I'm through. 1-9-12 34 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the same questions that 3 I just -- that I'm concerned about, the total amount and 4 earmarks and all those kinds of things, apply to each and 5 every program that we do. We're talking right now about the 6 '08 issue. 7 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm assuming you're 9 fixing to go into the 2010 issue, and -- but all that stuff 10 applies in the same way, doesn't it? 11 MS. HARGIS: It's -- yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it does. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. What is this payoff, 16 in '12? 17 MS. HARGIS: 2012, yeah. And at that point, once 18 the issue is -- is paid off, then it -- you know, but you're 19 still going to run into a little bit of arbitrage again. 20 I.R.S. is looking -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What month does it pay off? 22 MS. HARGIS: We received the money June 8th of 23 2008, so we're probably hitting the door in June. But, 24 again, if we allocated it to that project and it's under 25 engineering, we can show it's being done, there won't be a 1-9-12 35 1 problem. And because we're under the $5 million reporting 2 requirement, we're not as much under the radar. Now, the 3 other issue's a little larger. And -- and the way arbitrage 4 works is you have to report a small issue, and a small 5 issue's five million. That's why I've always tried to keep 6 us below five million. It's mandatory if you do it over five 7 million; however, it's still -- we still come under the 8 arbitrage. If you read both of the bond tax anticipation 9 notes, both of these do come under that because they're 10 general issues. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So -- so the tax notes, 12 again, the life span is between one and five years; is that 13 correct? 14 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. This one here was 16 1.78? 17 MS. HARGIS: 1.73. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 1.73? 19 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1.78. 22 MS. HARGIS: 1.78, that's right. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's 1.78, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jumping up to the -- reading 25 ahead, which I'm sorry, but the 2010 issue does not have any 1-9-12 36 1 I.T. items on it. And you mentioned that a few minutes ago. 2 I don't see them on that list. 3 MS. HARGIS: It is. It is on there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, then nevermind. We'll 5 get to that when you get to the next one. I'll defer my 6 question. 7 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The original list on this one 8 has been a moving target. This one has been very difficult 9 to keep up with. And as -- as we change the scope, then I 10 actually set up accounts so that we could track it in those 11 particular scopes. So, the -- if you'll look at the recap, 12 you can see there we did designate $353,813. Remember, this 13 was a two-year bond, so we knew we were going to have to buy 14 computers for a two-year span, so this is -- this was meant 15 to go to 2012. The ag extension here was not for the 16 building itself; it was for the tables and chairs and for the 17 purchase of a vehicle out there that we did, and that's done. 18 The second one was video equipment for the courtroom. We 19 started out thinking we were going to get grants on that, and 20 we did some of that work, and some of it we didn't do. So, 21 we -- it came under -- under budget, so there we have a 22 little bit of money left of 27,013. Road and Bridge -- I 23 love Road and Bridge, because if you give them 400,000, 24 they're going to spend right up to 399 or 400. Leonard's 25 great. That one cleared out almost instantaneous. 1-9-12 37 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 2 MS. HARGIS: Environmental Health, again, this was 3 a change, so we knew exactly what they were going to do. 4 These were vehicles as well. The equipment for the jail and 5 the van was a part of the original issue. We were able to 6 get the air-conditioners under the SECO grant; that's why 7 there's money left in this line item. The next one, as you 8 recall, was for the constables. We did not have this in, but 9 we were able -- because we did have excess funds, we did buy 10 the three vehicles and equipped those vehicles. The second 11 page, we had some vehicles that we wanted to pay off. That 12 included the van at the ag facility -- at the Extension 13 Service, plus we had some Sheriff's vehicles that we paid 14 off. And then we bought additional air conditioning 15 equipment and two trucks, for a total there of 549. That has 16 been done. And the second renovation was, as you recall, 17 when we moved the juvenile department from this building to 18 the old detention center, and it needed paint and some carpet 19 and redo, so that -- that was the 16,000. That was not part 20 of the original issue. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Auditor? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. In the back of my 24 mind -- some of these things are coming to the surface in my 25 brain, believe it or not. One of the things that I've been 1-9-12 38 1 wondering about is, I see here where we purchased five patrol 2 cars and equipment for the Sheriff's Office. At some point 3 during this period of a few years, it seems like to me that 4 we also purchased some Sheriff's Department vehicles with 5 grant money. 6 MS. HARGIS: We did. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From -- I'm going to call it 8 Obama money. Is that different from what I'm reading here on 9 this page? 10 MS. HARGIS: We didn't get any of that type of 11 grant money. We did get grant money from a local foundation, 12 and then we used some seizure money. We did not -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 14 MS. HARGIS: The SECO grant was strictly air 15 conditioning and electrical. That's all we could spend it 16 on. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you very 18 much. 19 MS. HARGIS: We have, by the way, spent all of that 20 money, which was around $130,000. The courthouse annex came 21 way under budget, which was wonderful, and as you recall, the 22 fence was added. We didn't know the exact cost of the fence, 23 so that kind of followed, and that's the security fence that 24 we put in. We used a lot of money in fencing from the 25 airport to offset the cost of that, so that actually even 1-9-12 39 1 came in under budget. Then you go to the airport. We paid 2 for the water line out of this issue. We were not allowed to 3 pay for the hangars, because it was a private situation, so 4 therefore we originally knew -- thought our cost was going to 5 be 400,000. The water line came in a bit less than that, and 6 so that's why there's funds available there. There are still 7 capital projects that are in the master plan. And, you know, 8 this -- you may want to hold onto this for future, but we 9 can't -- you know, again, that's up to the Court. The dams, 10 thanks to Commissioner Oehler, came in way under what we had. 11 And we actually, at the very end, put a lot of extra money in 12 this area, because we weren't sure how much those dams were 13 going to cost. And we -- they did actually end up costing a 14 whole lot less than if Commissioner Oehler hadn't gotten 15 involved in that, so that -- that ended up being a plus to 16 us. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know that old saying, 18 "You can't get blood out of a turnip"? I'll disagree with 19 you. I've never seen anybody squeeze -- squeeze pennies out 20 of a nickel like he did. That's fantastic. 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, he kept a close -- a close rein 22 on that, not only from the construction standpoint, but also 23 from the engineering standpoint. So, you know, that just 24 shows that you guys are very frugal with what you do, and you 25 do your jobs, and you do work every day. So, the unallocated 1-9-12 40 1 premium, this was a bonus to us that we got. We sold the 2 bonds at a premium, so we got a little bit of money back. We 3 spent a little bit of that. Bond issuance costs were a 4 little less than we anticipated, so there's some money there. 5 The interest income on this issue has not been that great, 6 because as you know, the interest has been pretty bad the 7 last couple of years. So, you have 729,308.75. Now, I 8 thought that I had the reallocation, but during the budget 9 process I handed you a document, and you reallocated 727,000 10 of that to different items. And I thought it was in my 11 packet, but it isn't. I can get that at break and hand it 12 out to you, but we did reallocate these items during the 13 budget period for other things. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you can get that, I'd 15 appreciate that. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 17 (Cell phone noise.) 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was that? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you heard it. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Did you hear it? 21 MS. HAYES: Sorry. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought my hearing aids 23 were going nuts. (Laughter.) 24 MS. HAYES: It's God calling. So sorry. 25 MS. HARGIS: So this is pretty much, I think, what 1-9-12 41 1 the item on the agenda asked. If you have any more 2 questions, you can see that we have kept a close 3 reconciliation of that. It's not been coming with the 4 general fund, and it's only the items that you approve prior 5 to the money coming out. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- my only comment is I 7 think it -- you know, at our next agenda item, or soon, we 8 need to look at the numbers and bring them back for 9 reallocation so we kind of all are on the same page as to 10 what we're holding this money for. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the objective of the workshop 13 that you're requesting here. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Separate item, yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of where we're 17 headed. Us old west Kerr County boys are a step ahead of 18 you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A step ahead. 20 MS. HARGIS: I think that's all I have on that 21 particular item, unless Commissioner Baldwin has anything 22 else he wants to address. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't, and I 24 appreciate you -- I appreciate you going to the trouble of 25 explaining all this to us. Thank you so much. 1-9-12 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments with 2 regard to this particular agenda item? Let's go to our 9:30 3 timed item, if we might. Item 6 is to consider, discuss, 4 take appropriate action for further direction regarding the 5 reallocation of remaining funds in the Community Development 6 Block Grant 710065 for possible use outside colonia areas on 7 various O.S.S.F. or wastewater projects. Mr. Garcia? 8 MR. GARCIA: Morning. On December 12th, 9 Commissioners Court gave me direction to seek out and talk 10 with Grantworks about other options to use remaining funds 11 after we have these five installs going in from this grant. 12 Contacted Grantworks, and she sent back some information in 13 regards to the reallocation or possible next steps from the 14 Court as to what we want to use. I sent you guys an e-mail, 15 the Court; everybody got a copy of that, and Commissioner -- 16 it was addressed to Commissioner Overby. And we have a 17 window here before October 16th, 2012, to get something done 18 here with the remaining moneys, or ask T.D.A. -- Texas 19 Department of Agriculture what we can do with the remaining 20 moneys after these installs if we don't get any more 21 cooperation -- or any more participation from residents in 22 these various colonia areas. 23 So, coming back to the Court, again, to see what 24 you guys decided or what avenue you want to take, or what we 25 -- I should ask Grantworks to ask the T.D.A. what we can use 1-9-12 43 1 these for. In the e-mails, she did address a couple of 2 alternatives; first-time sewer connections. She also 3 described some areas, the Kerrville South wastewater, and 4 then the Blue Ridge and Casa mobile home parks. We asked if 5 nonprofits could be -- could use this. It seems to me in the 6 e-mail that it's -- if we don't ask, we're not going to find 7 out. Again, we need to go forward and I need to get 8 direction from the Court so we can find out if we can do 9 first-time hookups. We do have a couple of projects here, 10 the Camp C.A.M.P., trying to help them out. I think we 11 discussed that, Commissioner Overby, and I believe we 12 discussed some -- Hill Country Arts Foundation, all 13 nonprofits. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 15 MR. GARCIA: And then we have the Kerrville South 16 wastewater project that we still need to finish up on, and 17 then anything in, you know -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What do you think is the best 19 approach, whether it should come from a letter that would be 20 drafted by you making the request and signed by the Judge, or 21 just the Court to give you direction to formally ask for 22 those funds to be reallocated for other projects? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let me -- 24 MR. GARCIA: I would -- I'm sorry, Judge -- 25 Commissioner. I would -- I would request a letter from the 1-9-12 44 1 Judge, just to -- and from -- from the Commissioners Court 2 giving me the direction to ask for these certain things for 3 the T.D.A., you know. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the County in the -- can the 5 funds be used for county projects? 6 MR. GARCIA: We can ask. You know, I think 7 that's -- that's the main thing, is if we don't ask, we're 8 not going to get. I mean -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I bring that up, we 10 have two projects -- well, one's much more ahead of the other 11 one, but the Ag Barn is going to take some -- obviously, 12 there's going to be some work out there that's going to be 13 required. And the other one is, under the master plan, the 14 airport -- you know, there's extensions that could be applied 15 for, and if the money's there, we can figure out -- go to the 16 Airport Board and say, "Hey, you know, y'all are looking at 17 doing a number of different things. Is there any place we 18 need to get sewer line?" 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'd like to say something, 20 Ray, about -- as far as following up with Grantworks last 21 week, just visiting with them. Of course, what they're 22 asking for is some language as far as how that money can be 23 used. Of course, T.D.A., you know, is the one who's calling 24 the shots. 25 MR. GARCIA: Yes, over in Austin. So, it's not 1-9-12 45 1 typically what we've had in the past as far as these grants 2 are concerned, so they have a different jurisdiction on these 3 telling them how to use it. The other issue is, again, the 4 nonprofits aren't going to be eligible, but we talk about 5 projects, and in visiting with them last week, we are going 6 to make still another attempt to try -- once these five 7 hookups are completed, we're still going to make another 8 pitch to those folks out in our communities who don't have 9 money that need assistance on those hookups, and they felt 10 like that was going to be another thing, that we went through 11 the newspapers and try to get out and reach that information. 12 So, we're going to make another public effort to help people 13 who need what those grants are for. 14 I also want to make sure that the Court remembers, 15 we will be up for Phase 5 funding coming up in June. As you 16 know, we've we completed Phase 4 last May, Commissioner 17 Baldwin and that effort. Phase 5 funding, we stand right at 18 the front of that funding to come through. That Phase 5 19 project is going to be about a half a million dollar grant. 20 The issue that we had with Phase 5 when we put our 21 application in was that it wasn't going to be able to take 22 all of the hookups that we wanted to complete, everything on 23 the Kerrville South wastewater project. There was an 24 apartment addition right across the street over there off 25 Ranchero Road that was excluded because we run out of funds. 1-9-12 46 1 This may be something that the Court needs to look at, where 2 if there are any funds left, we might be able to come back, 3 and if it can be negotiated through T.D.A. through language 4 that might be acceptable, there may be some opportunity to 5 actually finish the Kerrville South wastewater project from 6 what we wanted to do. I don't know what that detailed amount 7 would be, but that might be an opportunity, if there is any 8 excess, that we might consider. So, I just wanted to -- you 9 know, to let the Court remember that, you know, that 10 project's going to get requested for in June. If it gets 11 funded like we anticipate it to, it would start construction 12 in '13. About 180 days to complete. That could actually be 13 completed at the end of the year, and a potential to finish 14 it all if there's any money left over. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But completing the apartment 16 complexes would be -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Additional. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- meeting our -- yeah, but 19 meeting our long-term goals that we'd set years ago. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct, Commissioner. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That one, the completion of 22 that Kerrville South project. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be great. That 25 would be great if we could allocate those funds for that. 1-9-12 47 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Me, too. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of more in line, really, 3 with everything I've read so far as to what intent of that -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We actually thought there was 5 going to be enough funds in the initial grant request to 6 finish it, but we're going to have to make some upsize 7 improvements on some other lines elsewhere to take the flow 8 of those other additions, so we weren't going to be able to 9 get all of them, Commissioner, at that time. So, this might 10 be an opportunity, if there is any excess, that we could -- 11 if that language could be worked out, that we could finish 12 that project. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: In essence, using these funds to be 14 combined with future grant funds, C.D.B.G. wastewater grant 15 funds. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's correct. So, I just 17 wanted to make sure everybody knows that out there, and we'll 18 see after this next round of attempts. That's just an 19 option, but I think something will be worthwhile in finishing 20 a project. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess -- and I think -- 22 didn't I see Keller back there somewhere? 23 MR. DROZDICK: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would this -- would the 25 approach, then, be to go to Texas Department of Agriculture 1-9-12 48 1 and see if they would fund the, I guess, engineering and the 2 work to get the apartment complex done -- that portion of it 3 done? Is that kind of, I mean, how it would work? Keller? 4 MR. DROZDICK: You have to check with Grantworks. 5 I'm not sure what the restrictions on those funds are. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just don't know how much 8 it's going to cost. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, if we could -- the 10 question, I guess, to Texas Department of Agriculture is, can 11 this money be used for the engineering to get that done? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's what we've got to find 13 out. 14 MR. GARCIA: Yeah. Again, it came down to speaking 15 with Grantworks, that we -- we have to ask through them, and 16 I believe it would be better if we just go through the Judge 17 and you guys specifically stating what we want to try to use 18 this for, and then move on this before the drop-dead time 19 that we have coming up. In February, we're supposed to get 20 the final for the bids of those who qualified to have their 21 systems for the original use of this grant. We'll have that 22 -- those final bids in to Grantworks for the site evaluation/ 23 installation, so we'll know what moneys are going to be left 24 over after February. We should. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ray, those five hookups that 1-9-12 49 1 you were having, again, are kind of all coming from one 2 particular area; isn't that correct? 3 MR. GARCIA: Specifically in Hill River Country 4 Estates. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And there will be -- we think 6 there's an opportunity of other folks in there who might see 7 potentially -- 8 MR. GARCIA: We're hoping -- we're hoping that when 9 they do see that, that it's happening -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Available. 11 MR. GARCIA: Right. We can -- they'll apply. But, 12 again, we've gone out and went door-to-door, and phone calls 13 and everything else we can do to get these people to 14 participate, and it is what it is. We just have five. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, my question is which 16 -- which has more strength? A letter from your office that 17 outlines these issues, or a court order that clearly outlines 18 the things that we want -- the projects that we want to 19 accomplish? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- any inquiry that I 21 would write over my signature would be essentially by 22 direction of the Court. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, same thing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So I think, essentially, they're 25 probably one and the same. 1-9-12 50 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same thing. 2 MR. GARCIA: When we had -- when we did the review 3 of the grant, when the State came down to review the grant, 4 it was set out in that grant in specific line items to where 5 the Court would make that decision, and then we'd go back to 6 Grantworks and kind of request whatnot. So, it was in there; 7 it was stated like that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I had a question back here? 9 MR. KYPUROS: Ray, question on the October 2012 10 date. Is that the date for a request to be made? 11 MR. GARCIA: It's the grant period. 12 MR. KYPUROS: Does this construction have to be 13 completed by that date? 14 MR. GARCIA: Well, see, that's what we were 15 speaking about with Grantworks. I think that date that we 16 had talked about was -- that's when we have to find out 17 what -- exactly what we're going to use the money on, or if 18 we don't have any other use for it, if we don't request a use 19 for that money, then that's it; we're done in October. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We sure don't want to turn it 21 back. If we could utilize that in a priority for doing 22 engineering and doing stuff in the apartment complex on 23 Ranchero, I believe that's a priority. Any other funds left 24 over, ask if they can be spent on, say, first-time hookups or 25 nonprofit, or get the permission to use those funds, you 1-9-12 51 1 know, whatever it is for the intended use -- intended 2 purpose. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. And the use of this 4 grant was extended from June 30th to October, so we got an 5 extension, a little time. But I think we need to come back 6 and, you know, give some direction for you, and then 7 obviously come back and take a look at this after you hear 8 what they say. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can actually use the 10 grant money for hookups? 11 MR. GARCIA: She did specifically state that in her 12 response back to us, that it's -- it's possible to ask for 13 that, because in the past, she says that they have used that 14 money for first-time sewer hookups. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's why. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That requires low to mod, though. 17 Low to moderate income, I'm sure. 18 MR. GARCIA: Well, and she didn't -- she didn't 19 specify that, because that was one of the things that we were 20 asking. For -- even, you know, if we have businesses in the 21 area that we need to try to get hooked up into city sewer; 22 i.e., the Hill Country Arts Foundation, we had asked that. 23 They are a first-time hookup. You know, do they qualify? 24 Well, we don't know. We need to ask, okay? So, then you -- 25 if we have direction from the Court, then we will ask to see 1-9-12 52 1 if they can't get hooked up. If they say no, we move on. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to ask the question two 3 ways; both low to mod, and then without low to mod 4 qualification. On nonprofits, for example. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any potential on 6 hooking up to the sewer lines from Ingram to Kerrville? Are 7 those at capacity already? We're -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, they're not at capacity; 9 they still have another phase. In fact, they haven't even 10 started Phase 2. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: They're in Phase 2 right now. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're still trying to 13 complete Phase 1. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a lot -- their 15 businesses -- a lot of businesses down there that would, you 16 know, need to be hooked up. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some of them have. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some have? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But there are a lot who have 20 not because of one reason or another. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, all those phases are 22 complete. You've got 700 hookups. It's a huge deal. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if this is 24 possible funds to use part of that, 'cause some of those are 25 on septic out there that need to be -- 1-9-12 53 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They are. And -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- need to get on. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- all those businesses on 4 the north side of 27, all the way to Goat Creek almost, there 5 at -- on Industrial West, Mill Run and whatever, those 6 businesses are not hooked up, and they want to hook up. I've 7 been to every one of them and asked permission to get their 8 water usage so that the City of Kerrville would know what 9 they're dealing with. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There may be some way to help 11 that process. 12 MR. GARCIA: And the thing with this, too, is that 13 we have to -- you know, Commissioner Oehler -- I think most 14 of y'all have echoed this, is that with -- with the city's 15 permission, before we ask to hook somebody up, obviously, 16 they would have to go to the City and ask permission to get 17 hooked up, and then we move forward from that. But, again, 18 if we have direction or, you know, certain specific line 19 items that we want to address with these guys, you know, it's 20 prudent we move on and get -- get some kind of resolution to 21 this. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like the Judge's idea to 23 ask for the -- what was it? The low -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the low to moderate income, 25 and then hookups. Assist with hookups without regard to 1-9-12 54 1 qualification of low-mod. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then businesses. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Ask as many questions as you can, 5 and get as many answers, whether it be commercial or 6 whatever, nonprofit. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess we can give them 8 multiple choice, couldn't we? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Give them as many choices as we can. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think they'll let us know. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would like to see us direct 12 Ray to -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Follow up. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- follow up on that, and 15 come back with some -- you know, ask formally what those 16 funds can be used for, and if it can be used for the things 17 that he has identified. We need -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm hearing at this point is 19 that the amount of direction given to Ray to make that 20 inquiry, he and I will work together to draft that letter to 21 ask these specific questions. Now, the Office of Rural -- 22 Office of Rural Affairs and T.D.A.? Is that how it's 23 structured now? I know -- 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Texas Department of 25 Agriculture. 1-9-12 55 1 MR. GARCIA: She -- we had talked about that, and 2 it's Texas Department of Agriculture where the request would 3 be sent to. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's actually the -- O.R.C.A. 5 was folded into Texas Department of Agriculture, and it's 6 Office of Rural Affairs now within the Texas Department of 7 Agriculture. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: As I recall. Do you think you got 10 sufficient direction and thoughts that we can put it together 11 now, Ray? 12 MR. GARCIA: I think we can find our way there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Anybody else have 14 anything to offer on that? Okay. Let's get our 9:30 timed 15 item -- 9:35 timed item out of the way. Consider, discuss, 16 take appropriate action to set public hearing and publication 17 of notice thereof on the Order Adopting Rules of Kerr County, 18 Texas for On-Site Sewage Facilities. Mr. Garcia? 19 MR. GARCIA: If the Court recalls, we had some 20 direction that was given through T.C.E.Q. for the first 21 order -- or not order. The amendment that we had from the 22 Office of Legal Affairs for T.C.E.Q., which turned out to be 23 incorrect. We since got ahold of T.C.E.Q.; they wrote up a 24 draft. County Attorney's been back and forth a few times; 25 came to an agreement with them. Judge Tinley received a 1-9-12 56 1 formal letter to move forward and start the process to 2 approve the final order. This is not an amendment; this is 3 an order, so there will be no interlocal agreement, 4 intergovernment -- intergovernmental local agreement with the 5 City of Ingram. I have spoken with Ingram. Ingram did put 6 it on their agenda, and they spoke about it. They understand 7 that there will be no interlocal agreement, and City Council 8 spoke -- spoke to them briefly at their past meeting, and 9 just informative for them. But, again, the County Attorney 10 has approved it, and we are prepared to move forward with the 11 next step, the setting of the public hearing. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And the authority you're seeking 13 today is the authority to publish the notice and set the 14 public hearing? 15 MR. GARCIA: Publish the notice and set the public 16 hearing. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: When are you asking to set the 18 public hearing for? 19 MR. GARCIA: Next Commissioners Court date, which 20 is -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 23rd. 22 MR. GARCIA: -- the 23rd. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 23rd at 10 a.m. is what I'm 25 reading here. 1-9-12 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. GARCIA: That will work. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to set a 6 public hearing for January 23rd, 2012, at 10 a.m. on the 7 proposed order adopting rules of Kerr County, Texas for 8 On-Site Sewage Facilities and publish notice of said hearing. 9 Any question or comments on the motion? All in favor of the 10 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 15 our 10 o'clock timed items, since we've run past that now. 16 Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 17 open and award bids for the Clean Water State Revolving Fund 18 grant for the planning phase for the Center Point wastewater 19 collection system for legal services, engineering services, 20 financial adviser services, and bond attorney. I think we've 21 got a whole passel full of those here somewhere. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bond attorney and legal 23 services are two different -- two different human beings? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, it would appear. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go. 1-9-12 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The first is a proposal for 2 bond counsel services submitted by McCall, Parkhurst and 3 Horton. Next, we have a proposal for legal services 4 submitted by Lloyd Gosselink, attorneys out of Austin. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, both of those were 6 legal services? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: One's bond counsel, the other is 8 legal services. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposal from Coastal Securities, 11 Inc., for financial advisory services. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Amazing how much interest 13 there is now that there's bidding for these things. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here, Judge. Here's this one. 15 They may be the same. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposal for professional 17 engineering design services submitted by Tetra Tech. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That says the same thing. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Same thing. Proposal for financial 20 advisory services submitted by R.B.C. Capital Markets. 21 Proposal for legal services, Law Office of Davidson and 22 Troilo, San Antonio. Response to request for bond counsel 23 submitted by Escamilla, Poneck & Cruz. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-9-12 59 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just amazed there was 2 actually lawyers involved in all that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- my -- I guess, 4 unless I made a mistake, there's only one bid for anything 5 except bond counsel. There's a whole bunch for bond counsel. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Isn't that amazing? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it is what it is. I'll 9 make a motion we accept all bids and refer them to Auditor, 10 County Attorney, and I don't know who else needs to look at 11 these things. 12 MS. HARGIS: That's it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to accept 16 all bids and refer them to the Auditor and the County 17 Attorney for review, evaluation, and recommendation. Is that 18 correct, counsel? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Question or discussion 21 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 1-9-12 60 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We have 2 another 10 o'clock item. Let's go ahead and get to that. 3 Item 11, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 4 the Art-2-Heart presentation from Lorraine LeMon, Power Point 5 presentation to be included. Commissioner Overby? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge and Commissioners, it's 7 a privilege today to have Lorraine LeMon here, and her 8 husband here today also. Good to see you again. And I've 9 asked Lorraine just to come and visit a little bit with this 10 Court today, tell us a little bit about -- update about 11 Art-2-Heart and their organization, and how many years 12 they've been in our community and what their 2012 year is 13 going to look like. And we appreciate everything that this 14 organization does in our community. Lorraine, good to see 15 you again. 16 MS. LE MON: Thank you so very much, you guys, for 17 allowing me to come before you today. I won't be before you 18 long. And, yes, Art-2-Heart has been in the community for 19 quite a while. And I don't know if most of you know; 20 although I live in Center Point, most of the things that I 21 conduct are a little bit all around our county areas, from 22 Kerr to Kendall area. We have -- at the school in Comfort, 23 we're also working with the kids in Comfort as well now, and 24 we do a little storytelling there. Let me just briefly give 25 you an update. As you know, Art-2-Heart started sometime in 1-9-12 61 1 2004, and the whole purpose of it was actually to use the 2 fine and performing arts as a tool, 'cause we saw that, 3 really, it actually helped kids to make better choices. It 4 went from there to forming a 501(c)(3), a nonprofit 5 organization. We started using leadership as a huge tool to 6 actually bridge the gap. The kids at that point in time 7 began to do community service and involvement like that, as 8 well as put on two shows a year. 9 Coming from a background myself in Detroit, 10 Michigan, believe it or not, where I found that the arts 11 actually really saved me, saved my life, simply because it 12 made -- it did two things for me. It gave me self-worth and 13 self-esteem, and then on top of that, it made me realize that 14 I had a purpose. So, each kid in the Art-2-Heart program 15 actually is drilled that continuously, from -- from the time 16 that we have them all the way up. But what has happened in 17 the past -- and I was eight years -- I think it's about eight 18 years; we've gone from being in the back room of places that 19 will give us a spot to the Doyle Community Center to where we 20 are now over there on Sidney Baker. I noticed in the past 21 two to three years that I've been somewhere out in the 22 community, I've run into kids who are in university now. 23 They're now in Incarnate Word, U.T.S.A.; they're now in Texas 24 A & M. They are all over. And I thought to myself, what a 25 great asset and what a great resource. 1-9-12 62 1 And so our board got together and we discussed the 2 idea of taking these kids as alumni and pulling them 3 together. And instead of me, Ms. Lorraine LeMon, before the 4 kids talking about making better choices, begin to train 5 these alumni, these students who are now making positive 6 choices in their life, to actually come back and work with 7 kids and our juvenile system, work with kids in our 8 community, work with kids in our schools. And one of the 9 ways to do that, of course, in this peer/mentor/leadership 10 thing is to use our leaders to actually help our children to 11 become these individuals. One of the key words in my -- and 12 I circled it in the brochure, and that is engaging the mind. 13 This generation, if you do not engage them in what they have 14 to put to use in this society, this is one they fall by. 15 This is really a huge factor. 16 Besides the value, the mission statement of 17 Art-2-Heart is "Helping improve the ethical quality of 18 societies" by changing the way young people think and the way 19 they behave. Of course, you don't hear anything about art in 20 that mission statement, but the bottom line, the vision is 21 ultimately they will take their values and their talents and 22 integrate them into living and leading productive lives. 23 Because to tell little Sally, little Juan, little Maryssa or 24 whoever that she's great and have all these great things, and 25 really don't give her a sense of responsibility, is actually 1-9-12 63 1 just setting her up to danger. So, Art-2-Heart actually 2 presses -- purposely presses personal responsibility on a 3 consistent basis. 4 So, what I'm here for today is to not only give you 5 a little update. Who's the Village? If we flip, you are the 6 community. I'm actually -- and here is our model that we 7 live by, which is -- we call it CRAVE. C is for commitment, 8 Responsibility, Accountability, Vision, and living by 9 Example. Commitment to yourself, to God, to country. And 10 then responsibility. Responsibility is taking ownership, 11 taking personal ownership for my actions. And 12 accountability, which I call, by the way, gentlemen, 13 America's greatest cuss word, because no one wants to be 14 accountable for their actions in someplace or another. But 15 this accountability process needs to begin to be in action in 16 our own community, and that is on a one-on-one basis. And so 17 then, of course, vision. Who am I? What am I meant to do? 18 And living by example. 19 So, what I want to propose for you all to think 20 about today is what I'm going -- what I've called Project 21 20/20. I've met with several foundations, and I've -- I did 22 finally get approval of the Peterson Foundation to grant us 23 this particular funding that we need to actually start going 24 ahead with training these young people to train and empower 25 others, so impacting one generation to empower another. And 1-9-12 64 1 the way we do that is start from the top. We started with 2 some of our community leaders, and I would like for you all 3 to consider 20 leaders within our community to be able to 4 work with 20 of our kids who, in turn, will work with other 5 kids all the way down. And I will divide them throughout the 6 community, from K'Star shelter to the Youth Build -- our 7 first project is the Youth Build over there at Doyle, and 8 then as well as the juvenile justice system. So, that's kind 9 of an update. I've gone back to school myself, personally. 10 I'll graduate this May to get my Bachelor's in sociology. I 11 got more grandkids, but thank God, they're all somewhere 12 else, because that -- whoa, I can't imagine how would it 13 happen here. And I want to introduce my husband. Would you 14 stand, Richard? This is the crazy man that has lived with me 15 for 32 years. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Richard, I was -- 17 MS. LE MON: And he's made it possible for me to do 18 some of the wild and crazy things that I do. But if you take 19 a look at that, it's -- the whole thing is about engaging. 20 Art-2-Heart is right -- we're really fixing to turn the 21 corner. We're turning a corner and coming into -- and 22 bringing back into the community the kids that were raised in 23 this community. It's great to have a speaker, bring them in 24 from the outside, talk about great things, but these kids 25 need to look eye-to-eye with other kids whose moms and dads 1-9-12 65 1 have gone through the same thing that they have gone through, 2 and they have made some choices. They need to see that, and 3 they need to know the steps, how to get there. So, we got to 4 train the trainers, and we're asking for our community to 5 step up to the plate. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Lorraine, how many -- how 7 many over the years since '04, how many children -- students 8 have you -- has this organization touched out in our 9 community today? 10 MS. LE MON: We're now up to the number of about 11 4,382, and that's because we do public school assemblies as 12 well. We do 300 to 500 kids in public school assembly, and 13 we have every summer 30 to 40 kids. And then, of course, we 14 do our actual shows, the Journey musical, which is every 15 year. We took advantage of Black History month, my husband 16 and I -- there's an old adage; we joke that there's only five 17 black people in Kerrville, because they always ask us to do 18 something for Black History month. We did it this year, but 19 we do include all races. And what came out of that, the kids 20 created this musical which is showing how music ties all 21 races together, so that gives us even a larger venue of 22 audiences. We've been to San Antonio; we performed at 23 Carver, so we get a chance to see a lot of that. 24 So, that's -- and then I just really want to 25 quickly -- although I'm a grandmother, these kids are my 1-9-12 66 1 kids. And if you just take a look at these pictures here, I 2 just want to just pass it out. These are just average kids. 3 There's Ebony. There's Megan Knowles. There's Dujohn, and 4 there's Ben. These are just average, everyday kids. 2004, 5 2003, those kids met with me up at Camp Sequoia. We had a 6 leadership retreat. They took photos of what they wanted to 7 become. All four of those kids are in university now. We 8 have about 17 to 25, but those ones in particular are 9 actually doing those professions. Megan Knowles is at 10 Berkeley, and she -- she's actually in a college where 11 there's music at Berkeley University in California. And then 12 we have Dujohn, who wanted to be a chef. He is also -- he's 13 at Houston. He's at the university there, going to cuisine 14 school. And then we also have now, which I'm really, really 15 proud of, is Ben Ladesma. Ben Ladesma -- Ben started off 16 saying that he wanted to do drafting and engineering, and 17 then very recently I met with Ben, and Ben told me his heart 18 has been totally turned around. He is desiring to go back 19 and reach this generation in any way he can, all the major -- 20 the whole thing, but yet still -- he still is going to come 21 back and do that. Ben Ladesma is living proof that kids want 22 to give back; they want to do something, but they need to be 23 given the tools how to do it so that they can use their 24 personal experiences to save another generation. I thank you 25 all so much for your time. 1-9-12 67 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. LeMon has been a wonderful 3 resource to us in our juvenile justice program. It's a 4 matter of assessing which particular child is -- is best 5 suited for the programs she offers, but she's been a 6 wonderful resource. And for those of -- those of you that 7 don't know Lorraine, this grandma makes the Energizer Bunny 8 look like a has-been. (Laughter.) I'm telling you, there's 9 no lack of energy here. She's absolutely phenomenal. Thank 10 you for being here, Lorraine. 11 MS. LE MON: Thank you so very much. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to add one thing. 13 And poor old Richard's always left out of that. He's one of 14 the -- he is a -- a top-flight musician, a big-time musician. 15 You still have your studio? 16 MR. LE MON: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still has a studio. 18 MS. LE MON: As a matter of fact, we took the kids 19 from Pathways to our studio. That was just a great example. 20 We took some kids from Pathway to our studio. Of course, the 21 first thing they wanted to do was do rap music, so what we 22 decided to do was, we said, "Okay, brothers, no problem with 23 that, but what we want you to do is write your lyrics. When 24 you finish writing out your lyrics, I want you to tell me 25 which family member you would like -- between your mother and 1-9-12 68 1 your sister and your father, that you would like to give this 2 letter to." (Laughter.) Using the arts to reach the hearts, 3 we change lives. Thank you so much. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 5 (Applause.) 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I tell you, I'll say one 7 other thing about Lorraine, she is a go-getter. And, 8 Richard, I will tell you, I -- I had the opportunity to do 9 the Dancing with the Stars in '06 with her. 10 MS. LE MON: And we won. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And we won. You want to get 12 somebody who'll get you going, I lost a lot of weight that 13 year too. Anyway, I appreciate everything y'all are doing. 14 Thanks. 15 MS. LE MON: Thank you all so much. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Okay, let's go back to 17 Item 9; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set 18 a date for a workshop to discuss the capital projects 19 included in a new -- any new tax anticipation note. 20 Commissioner Baldwin. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. I don't 22 have a specific day, but one thing I want to -- the Auditor 23 talked to me before the meeting, and the projects and issues 24 that we want to deal with -- what was your request? We need 25 to get them in to you when? Yesterday? Or -- 1-9-12 69 1 MS. HARGIS: I'd like to have them by the end of 2 this week, if I can. I know everybody doesn't have their 3 numbers, but they need -- this is a five-year project, not a 4 one-year. And so -- I have Kevin's. I think that Ray's gone 5 back and he's going to add some things to his. I don't have 6 Tim's. There are a lot of people that have not responded to 7 me. I need -- you know, the Sheriff's working on his. But 8 until I get that data from them, I can't put anything 9 together for the Court. 10 MR. TROLINGER: It's going to take at least two 11 weeks for I.T. to gather this information. I've got to get 12 quotes for projects that are just -- you just don't do it 13 over a week. 14 MS. HARGIS: So, that kind of -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only question that I would 16 have, are you wanting the -- the continual renewal of things 17 such as vehicles and that, or are you wanting the major 18 items, such as jail expansion, radio system, the future that 19 we see compared to your yearly, you know, four vehicles a 20 year or whatever we going into that? What are -- what are 21 the guidelines? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just going to set the 23 date. I have no idea about that. 24 MS. HARGIS: We need both, because the Court needs 25 to decide, are we going to use capital moneys for this, or 1-9-12 70 1 are we going to use operating moneys? And based on what we 2 see, then we can decide. Because we -- we have limitations 3 as to how much we can borrow. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The wish list. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. So, we need them both. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, should -- John? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're talking about, 9 like, the first week in February? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Reasonably, I would expect to have 11 all the numbers back by then. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that do to us, 13 Ms. Auditor? 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, then that would bring it back to 15 the -- the Court then could set a workshop after that. I'll 16 need a few days to put everything together. So, I don't know 17 when the first falls, but I need at least a week, so let's 18 say sometime the second week of February. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just talk about the 20 first meeting in February. We'll just -- let's do that date 21 now. Do you know what that might be? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: I don't know. I think it's the 23 13th. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The 13th. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge has to do 1-9-12 71 1 everything, anyway. 13th? 2/13. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll have a workshop after 3 the regular meeting that day. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After the regular meeting 5 that day. And -- and juveniles don't come in till 2:00, or 6 something like that -- 3 o'clock, so we could be back in here 7 at 1:30. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:00. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could be back in here at 11 1:00. We could send out for pizza and -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge may not let us, but we 13 could. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1 o'clock. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's an off date. Wait a 16 minute. No, that's -- okay. Okay. Is that when you want 17 it? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to make a motion. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to make sure 23 everybody has -- has something -- if they think that they 24 need a capital purchase, they need to be at that workshop and 25 let it be known. 1-9-12 72 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They need to let it be known 3 before. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Before then. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At least two weeks before 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Gives them a whole month. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You kind of suggest at the 9 same time being at the workshop, and get our list or anything 10 that we feel could come up to Jeannie by February 1st so 11 she'll have time to put it together? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Definitely by February -- on 13 or before. Mostly before. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: And then they should be here to -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Defend. 17 MS. HARGIS: -- defend and back up what they -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they're not here to defend 19 it, they don't get it. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We'll consider -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we have a workshop to 22 discuss capital projects on February 13th at 1 o'clock. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for a 25 workshop on capital projects February 13th at 1 p.m. Further 1-9-12 73 1 question or -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will also include 3 anticipation of that -- those projects that are submitted in 4 the workshop would be for capital funds? Capital loan in the 5 future? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, the next five years. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All capital items for the 9 county for the next five years. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Five years. Further question or 11 comment? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. Let's see. 16 Where we are, gentlemen? Let's go ahead and do our 10:30 17 item so we won't have to keep those folks waiting. Item 15, 18 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve license 19 agreement with Pictometry International Corporation; 20 authorize County Judge to sign same. Mr. Trolinger? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, Judge Tinley. Good 22 morning. The Pictometry project is a multiple-agency Kerr 23 County wide project. Kerr Emergency 911 Network initiated 24 this, and the Central Appraisal District's participating with 25 us also, and we have representatives from both of those 1-9-12 74 1 entities here today. The objective of the Pictometry project 2 is to take our maps and images, present and future, and 3 integrate them and allow offices such as Road and Bridge, the 4 Sheriff's Office, Voter Registration, Environmental Health, 5 and probably Land Records and lots of places I can't even 6 think of now, to be able to view these images, basically 7 through an internal website, and look at our maps. And I 8 think it lets us work together with the people that make the 9 maps, which is Central Appraisal District, basically. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the general 11 public? 12 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, it does not include public 13 access to the -- to the mapping software. This is strictly 14 internal. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The next question would be, 16 why? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the licensing cost is one 18 factor. I suppose at some point we could explore the public 19 access, and -- and, of course, the City provides an online 20 public access to -- to -- inside the city limits right now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it seems -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could you charge for that 23 service if you were to allow the general public to have 24 access? 25 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know the answer on that; 1-9-12 75 1 I'll have to find out. I expect we could expand at some 2 point from the internal to the external. But it's, of 3 course, software licensing issues. The company, Pictometry, 4 it's -- it's not too complex. The Pictometry basically takes 5 the images, gives them to us so we can use them internally, 6 but they'll also, as part of this, sell those images to third 7 parties like Google Maps, and then those will be accessible 8 to the public. So, we are funding, in essence, public access 9 to images. It's just not the entire package that we see 10 internally. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And these maps will -- so that 12 Road and Bridge can then -- if a question comes up on a tract 13 of land, it'll give what to these people? 14 MR. TROLINGER: They can look at the actual map 15 layers, information that 911 provides, Central Appraisal, and 16 anything that we mark up, of course. And then there's the 17 image, the actual aerial photography that's available. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it'll -- so if Ray had a 19 septic question, he can go put in an address, and it will 20 give an overlay of the ownership onto the photograph? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And possibly other information. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Details. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a project that will be 25 jointly done and -- and jointly funded with Kerr Central 1-9-12 76 1 Appraisal District and 911; is that correct? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. The Kerr County tab on 3 this for the first year is about $9,300. It will end up -- 4 on the third year, the total cost will end up being $23,000. 5 We budgeted this as part of the county budget for just about 6 the majority of it. I think the way I'm going to go is we're 7 going to host, and we're going to provide our own hardware 8 in-house, and we're going to spread out the cost of the 9 software and software maintenance over three years. So, it's 10 a three-year contract, and it -- it takes all three entities 11 and binds them together. So, with that, the County 12 Attorney's reviewed what's a relatively complex contract and 13 had his input, and we're in the process of finalizing that 14 with Pictometry. 15 MR. HENNEKE: I don't think we're at the point to 16 approve the contract today. There's still some moving 17 pieces. I have a call in to the Pictometry rep, and I 18 probably need to speak with 911 and KCAD folks to all get on 19 the same page, but we'll get there. It's just not ready for 20 approval today. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I know we've got Kerr Central 22 Appraisal District, Mr. "Fourth" Coates, and Bill Amerine, 23 911. You guys have anything you want to throw in to the mix 24 here? 25 MR. AMERINE: Well, we purchased this originally 1-9-12 77 1 three years ago, so this contract that we're looking at now 2 is an update of that data that we purchased three years ago. 3 Obviously, there's been enough development in three years 4 that aerial photography needs to be reshot. And I'll let Mr. 5 Coates speak for himself, but the -- the data that we receive 6 from 911 is used by our dispatchers and by us for addressing 7 our dispatches for the dispatch, and it's probably some of 8 the most usable data we've ever purchased. As far as 9 pinpointing locations and being able to see geographic 10 features, it's outstanding. 11 MR. COATES: Pictometry is -- what we use it for 12 mainly is for structures. And it actually is so precise that 13 you can actually measure the structures -- yeah, I know -- 14 within a foot. I have my mapper here. We have a lower level 15 flight that we did originally along the more populated areas; 16 it includes basically the river and the city, and it's within 17 4 inches. It's within 4 inches. So, there are actually some 18 appraisal districts in the more populated areas that have 19 gone to fly every year, and using the Pictometry. In some 20 cases, they don't even leave the office to appraise a piece 21 of property. So, it's -- it's been a revenue generator 22 through the taxes for the county, the school districts, and 23 all the other taxing entities. In fact, the first couple of 24 properties that we discovered that weren't on the roll -- we 25 have, you know, problems in discovery in the areas outside 1-9-12 78 1 the city limits, because there's no real good, I guess, way 2 to pick up these properties, other than just finding them, 3 because there's no permits that you have to, you know, file 4 to build a home other than septic and water wells. And 5 sometimes, for some reason, those don't get filed for 6 whatever reason. But, anyway, the first couple of properties 7 we picked up more than paid for our portion of the -- of the 8 whole flight, so it's -- it's pretty awesome. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fourth, the -- 10 MR. COATES: We really like it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll ask you the question. 12 MR. COATES: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure if you know the 14 answer. With our, I guess, settlement with L.C.R.A., we were 15 to get a lot of mapping information, I recall, valued at 16 something like $60,000. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what I'm talking 19 about? Bill's waving. 20 MR. AMERINE: Well, we -- after one of our meetings 21 here where we talked about the Pictometry project we were 22 going to do, one of the L.C.R.A. representatives from San 23 Antonio that happened to be in that Commissioners Court 24 caught me outside and sent me an e-mail later showing me what 25 was available in Kerr County. And it was useful data that 1-9-12 79 1 they had shot, I'm going to say, a year or two ago, but it 2 only covered about a third of the county, so it was 3 incomplete; pretty much information in the areas of interest 4 for L.C.R.A. What we're asking Pictometry to do is the 5 entire county from boundary to boundary. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That answers that question. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Will any of that still be of 8 any use to you? 9 MR. AMERINE: It's of use to us, but it's only 10 marginally useful, because it's only a year newer than what 11 we already have. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney says there's still 15 work to be done on the agreement. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Well, Judge -- and the Sheriff's 17 got some input also, but I'd ask the Court that, pending the 18 County Attorney's approval, that they approve the -- the 19 contract for signature. 20 MR. AMERINE: If I could ask one question before 21 you go to that. Is it -- is it the intent of Kerr County to 22 do their own contract, separate from the joint contract that 23 KCAD and 911's going to do? Initially, the way we did this 24 three years ago, we had four departments; KCAD, KPUB, the 25 City of Kerrville, and 911, and we had one single contract 1-9-12 80 1 with four partners listed on there. In the markups that we 2 saw come back last week, it looked like the County's 3 intending to do their own unique separate contract with 4 Pictometry, which is no big deal, I don't think. But I just 5 -- just so that we know how to proceed with our part of this 6 contract, is that the intent, that Kerr County's going to 7 have their own contract with -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The honest answer is, I don't know, 9 Mr. Amerine. 10 MR. HENNEKE: We don't know yet. I didn't get this 11 till Wednesday when I was copied and it was put on the 12 agenda. And a multi-part contract like this that's worth 13 $70,000, we need just a little bit more advance time to work 14 on something like this. I had time to review it and see 15 where the issues were, but Bill and Fourth know I haven't had 16 a chance to reach out to them. So, if -- I mean, I'm 17 planning on speaking with y'all, but I just got it, didn't 18 know it was coming ahead of time, and had to read it first. 19 But I think we can work things out. And I'll be glad to 20 discuss with y'all what I saw, but I'm sure we can be ready 21 on this by the next Commissioners Court meeting. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll let the Sheriff throw 23 his two bits worth in here. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing is probably more 25 for clarification. Bruce may remember some of this. During 1-9-12 81 1 the budget process, this came up where Road and Bridge was 2 going to have to pay for part, Sheriff's Office was going to 3 have to pay for part, you know, different entities. And at 4 that time, if I recall right, the Court decided no on -- on 5 any of that. I think Bruce had questions about it. The 6 detail of this mapping is by far one of the best things the 7 Sheriff's Office can use, and I'm sure the other entities are 8 the same for -- for dispatching officers, location, seeing 9 the structures on the map when you zoom in. Bruce had some 10 concerns about how much you can see on that map when they 11 zoom in. You know, I mean, it's very detailed. Okay, there 12 were some issues. So, my deal is just, mainly, I don't know 13 if it all got put into John's deal, but I did not budget 14 anything in the Sheriff's Office based on the budget 15 negotiations for the Sheriff's Office to pay for any portion 16 of that, and I don't believe that there was in Road and 17 Bridge. It may have all got moved over to some of John's 18 capital, and was budgeted through there, but there just needs 19 to be some clarification on where it comes out of. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jailer line item. 21 MR. TROLINGER: It is budgeted in the I.T. capital 22 for about $22,000 total, and that includes hardware and 23 hosting and bandwidth besides the actual contract that we're 24 talking about today. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's -- I mean, 1-9-12 82 1 certainly sounds good. Sounds like everyone's -- I mean, I'm 2 in favor of it, but I think we probably just need to bring it 3 back next meeting. I mean, I don't know what -- I can't 4 imagine that something like that will -- two weeks is going 5 to hold anything up. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Well, since the contract came up, 7 let me ask the Court this. It is an important contention. 8 There -- there can be -- the County Attorney and I spoke 9 about this for a little bit, and -- and you brought up 10 memorandum of understanding between the entities. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Well, I -- John, I don't want to -- I 12 don't want to discuss our attorney/client conversation, 13 particularly in regards to what I need to visit with KCAD and 14 911, before I have a chance to talk to them about that. So, 15 before we have an open discussion with the Court -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 17 MR. HENNEKE: You know, I just got this two 18 business days ago. Let me visit with the other parties, and 19 we can talk through what I saw and bring it back. But I'd 20 just as soon not -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do either of you two gentlemen, 911 22 or KCAD, have a problem with us deferring a decision on this 23 for two weeks? 24 MR. AMERINE: No. The only word of caution I might 25 add -- and Mark brought this up in talking to Pictometry -- 1-9-12 83 1 is that January-February are ideal months for this aerial 2 shoot, because there's fewer leaves on the trees and you can 3 see more detail, especially structures that may be under the 4 trees. And as we get into -- it takes a little while after 5 the contract is written and agreed to for them to schedule 6 the flights. So, if we start pushing this out till March and 7 April, we're going to get less detail. So -- and, again, I 8 know that's not -- we're not talking about pushing this off 9 for months, but timing is an issue. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Well, regardless of how we get the 12 signatures on there, Judge, if you all could authorize the 13 County Attorney to -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll bring it back next 15 meeting. 16 MR. TROLINGER: We'll bring it back that way, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 23rd. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we take about a 19 15-minute recess. 20 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 23 we might, from our recess. Let's go to Item 12; consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action to designate Commissioners' 25 and Judge's liaison appointments for various functions for 1-9-12 84 1 calendar year 2012. This is something we do annually at the 2 first of the year, and I'll let y'all take a shot at it. I 3 think I'm pretty well solid where I am. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You like what you're doing? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No changes from my standpoint. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fine with me. Leave it like 8 it is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If somebody wants to take over 10 library, I'll be -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I'm not taking that back. 12 I've already been down that road. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been doing a fine job there, 14 Jon. Been meaning to tell you that for some time. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When does the library open, 16 anyway? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no idea. 18 MS. ARNOLD: Supposedly February. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is there a motion to set the 20 liaison appointments as they currently exist for the past 21 year? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 25 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 1-9-12 85 1 signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 13, to 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint Bud 7 Fawcett and appoint Greg Meyer to the Kerr County Emergency 8 Services District Number 1 Board of Commissioners for a 9 two-year term. Commissioner Oehler? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question. Reappoint 15 Bud; I know that, and then appoint Greg. Is this his first 16 time? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is his first time. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I don't know him. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And he got kind of -- he was 20 tackled on two or three sides, and he didn't have any choice 21 but to say yes. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way they do it 23 out in Ingram. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We put the dogs on him. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 1-9-12 86 1 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 2 hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. This brings 7 us to Item 14; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 8 regarding hunting and the discharge of firearms on small 9 tracts of land. Commissioner Oehler? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this has come up 11 before, and I contacted the County Attorney, being as I had a 12 constituent that called with a complaint about a neighbor in 13 very close proximity to her property. And Rob, he responded 14 with the law, and I did provide her with that. I think we 15 have two ladies here today, Annie and Ms. -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Hayes. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Hayes, that I believe want 18 to speak to this. And then I guess we can have the County 19 Attorney say what we can and can't do in regard to this. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think for openers, why don't 21 we have the County Attorney tell us what the current state of 22 affairs is with regard to hunting and/or discharge of 23 firearms on small tracts of land. Tell us what the current 24 state of affairs is there. 25 MR. HENNEKE: There's no prohibition on it. 1-9-12 87 1 There's criminal -- criminal statutes that may or may not 2 apply as a law enforcement matter in regards to discharging 3 of a firearm. Now, there's several Parks and Wildlife 4 regulations, you know, hunting on somebody else's property, 5 and there's also if you shoot too close to a residence, and 6 those are, you know, of course, law enforcement matters, 7 separate and apart, completely distinct from any civil 8 authority or Commissioners Court jurisdiction. So, you 9 can -- you can shoot on your property and you can discharge a 10 firearm as long as you don't violate the law. Now, there is 11 a provision in the Local Government Code, Chapter 235, 12 Subchapter B, that seems to allow the County to amend its 13 subdivision rules to provide through the platting/subdivision 14 process to be able to restrict discharges of firearms on 10 15 acres or smaller as part of the platting process. 16 Of course, that can't apply retroactively to any 17 plats or lots or properties that are already out there. And 18 my recommendation is, being that -- you know, because of the 19 law enforcement ability to enforce, you know, the current 20 criminal statutes if they apply, and if you have new 21 subdivisions, you know, they can enact homeowners' rules and 22 deed restrictions themselves to restrict things, if we were 23 to do something moving forward, I don't think it would be 24 necessary for the County to do so as part of their 25 subdivision rules. But I guess the short answer is, it is 1-9-12 88 1 legal if you follow the law, and if you don't, there's 2 criminal -- many criminal statutes, depending on the 3 situation, that -- that apply if there's a violation. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Give me an example of 5 somebody that would discharge a firearm too close to 6 somebody's property. I mean, what's too close, and what -- 7 you know, what would be -- what -- what would an offense be? 8 MR. HENNEKE: Let me -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to get into the 10 projectile leaving one property and going onto another? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And even Rusty Hierholzer 13 can't tell when that happens. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've seen him out there with 16 his binoculars at times, but I don't believe he can do it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Those bullets travel pretty fast. 18 It's hard to keep up with them. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty quick, yeah. 20 MR. HENNEKE: I think, if you give me a second -- I 21 don't remember offhand, but I can come back and give some 22 examples. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty's got an answer for me. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Disorderly conduct has about 25 discharging firearms at or near a private residence, okay? 1-9-12 89 1 But, again, you know, if you got a 5-acre tract and three 2 hunters on it, which one fired the shot? You know, how near 3 was it? Just 'cause you heard the recoil of it, how near a 4 private residence was it? It's a very, very difficult 5 statute to enforce. Unless you can actually dig the bullet 6 out of somebody's house and trace it back to a certain gun, 7 you're not going to get labs to run ballistics on a lot of 8 those. Disorderly conduct is a Class C misdemeanor. Now, 9 you can get into the deadly conduct, okay, which bumps it up 10 to either a Class A or a felony, depending on, you know, if 11 somebody's hurt or whatever. But I thought Gillespie County 12 had a 10-acre limit a lot of times on discharging, but I just 13 don't know how far you want to get. We -- we do get a lot of 14 calls for shots fired near -- near a private residence. 15 That's anytime during hunting season or dove season, we get a 16 lot of that. You'll get a lot of pellets bouncing off 17 somebody's tin roof during dove season. Trying to prove 18 exactly where that came from is another story. 19 As far as injuries from it, I can only recall, in 20 30 years, one injury, and that shot was -- ended up, by all 21 calculations and what all the gun experts and DiMaio and 22 everybody else -- Vincent DiMaio, who was Bexar County 23 medical examiner, told us that that shot was fired -- I think 24 it was .270 caliber, hit a man while he was out feeding his 25 cattle, hit him in the stomach, just went under the skin, and 1-9-12 90 1 they said that shot came from well over 1 to 2 miles away. 2 And it was -- rather than projectile, it was the spent bullet 3 coming down, and then -- then just poked him in the skin. 4 And it did enter and embed in the skin while he was out there 5 feeding his cattle. But it's a very hard -- you know, in 6 rural counties, it's very hard. I mean, the City doesn't 7 even have any ordinance against discharging firearms inside 8 the city limits. You can -- you can do it, but you still 9 have the "at or near private residences" when the houses are 10 so close here. And then the game wardens under a lot of that 11 do have one about discharging from or across a public 12 roadway. But, again, it's the enforcement issue that really 13 becomes difficult on these larger ranches where people 14 would -- you know, numerous hunters, proving which one did 15 it. 16 MR. HENNEKE: And in addition to deadly conduct, 17 what I had to look up, you've also got Parks and Wildlife 18 Code 62.0121, which makes it a Class C misdemeanor while 19 hunting to discharge a firearm and cause a projectile to 20 travel across a property line. Of course, if you're shooting 21 an animal on somebody else's property or you're trespassing 22 onto somebody else's property, you're retrieving an animal, 23 then that potentially would violate Parks and Wildlife Code 24 61.022, as far as not having landowner's consent to hunt, 25 catch, or possess wildlife. So, there's several ways of 1-9-12 91 1 looking at it. It's a matter of proof, showing who actually 2 fired the shot, but there are criminal penalties that are out 3 there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Annie Wirth? 5 MS. WIRTH: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am. Come forward. And your 7 address is 2400 Goat Creek Road; is that correct? 8 MS. WIRTH: That is correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us what you have to say about 10 this issue. 11 MS. WIRTH: I would just like to tell you my 12 personal experience this past deer hunting season. My family 13 owns the Kerrville KOA on Goat Creek Road. Our property -- 14 part of our property line borders the Sleepy Hollow 15 subdivision, which is on -- behind our property, and my home 16 sits very close to that property line. My neighbor behind my 17 home is in the Sleepy Hollow subdivision. Most of those -- 18 I'm not sure; most of the tracts are small. The particular 19 piece of property behind my home is half an acre. Three 20 years ago he put up a deer feeder. Now, if you can picture, 21 I have a very long -- from the back of my house, where you 22 can touch -- physically touch my house, to my property line 23 is about 25 feet. From -- from my property line to his deer 24 feeder was approximately 35 feet, 40 feet. He -- there was 25 no problem; we just had the deer feeder. I thought he was 1-9-12 92 1 feeding the deer, until this last deer season, when he put up 2 a blind, which was even in closer proximity to my property. 3 It was -- it was approximately 25 feet from my property line, 4 the deer blind. It was on the ground, behind -- they put 5 dead trees around it, and it did sit -- wasn't one that set 6 up; it set on the ground. And it was a camo -- you know, the 7 camo deer feeder. 8 So, deer -- when the season started, all of a 9 sudden I would be in my home or out on my patio, and when -- 10 I'm not a hunter, and so -- but when these rifles are fired, 11 I mean, it sounded like it was right next to me. And, 12 indeed, that's not very far. You know, less than 40 feet. 13 And it -- when it first started, I called my brother, and my 14 brother lives on one side of me, so it kind of was his issue 15 too. My parents live on the other side, although their 16 property isn't part of the issue, but they're right next door 17 to me as well, you know, in close proximity. So -- and my 18 brother said there's nothing we can do; it's legal. He 19 started checking into the -- to the -- the laws. So, for the 20 entire deer hunting season, you know, I -- it was just really 21 petrifying. It was -- it was -- there were shots fired 22 before dawn. There were shots fired after dark, various 23 times during the day. 24 I have grandchildren. I didn't let anybody in my 25 back yard; nether did I go in my back yard any more. One day 1-9-12 93 1 my daughters and I were sitting on my patio, and all of a 2 sudden there were three shots fired, and we hit -- literally 3 hit the ground; it was so -- so petrifying, so close. It all 4 culminated in the day after Christmas. My daughters and I 5 went into San Antone to shop, and when I got back, my father 6 informed me that there had actually been a deer -- dead deer 7 on my property. He had -- the dog started barking, and my 8 dad looked out his window, and there was a man right on my 9 patio with a big, huge dead buck -- deer. My dad asked him 10 what he was doing. He said, "I knocked on her -- I knocked 11 on the door. Nobody answered, so I'm taking my deer." I -- 12 you know, so he started dragging the deer, and my mother 13 called the Sheriff. A sheriff did come, as well as the game 14 warden came. I was not there, but evidently my brother came 15 over, and evidently they told my family that the man had done 16 nothing -- there was nothing criminal. He'd done nothing 17 wrong. My brother said, "What about trespassing?" He was 18 told that because of the attempt to notify me, it would not 19 be considered trespass. I don't know about that, but that's 20 what we were told. 21 Nevertheless, I -- we -- the whole thing ended. 22 And I -- after that, I think the game warden went back up to 23 the property owner's property, because the next day I did go 24 out to the Sheriff's Office to find out what the heck had 25 happened here, and why it wasn't trespassing. I was just 1-9-12 94 1 confused about it. And I did find out that he was issued a 2 citation for improper tagging. I don't know what that is; 3 I'm not a hunter, so -- and it wasn't even the property 4 owner, or a relative. It was somebody else, maybe a friend. 5 And I did -- so I spoke to the Sheriff -- a person at the 6 Sheriff's Office. They told me that there's nothing they 7 could do. I spoke to the game warden, and he again said 8 there was nothing that anyone could do. But until you're in 9 that situation where it's so close to your property -- I 10 mean, this man has less than a half acre, and being in such 11 close proximity to my property, I can't imagine that that's 12 not dangerous. And it horrifies me to -- to think of what 13 has to happen before there would be any kind of action taken. 14 Because -- I guess I feel like I was held hostage. So, 15 that's my experience. And I just think that that's something 16 you should consider, that there are people that don't use 17 common sense. I don't think he was using common sense. 18 So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No doubt about it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, Ms. Wirth, we -- 21 like any other actions that certainly involve firearms or 22 anything else that has any risk involved with it, we like to 23 think that people, you know, use their noodle. You've 24 probably heard the old phrase, "You can't fix stupid." You 25 can't fix stupid. 1-9-12 95 1 MS. WIRTH: No, I do understand that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, I think you found one 3 of those instances. Sounds to me like the game warden did 4 what he could to -- to call attention to this gentleman, that 5 what he was doing really wasn't looked on too kindly. There 6 was just a limit to -- 7 MS. WIRTH: Right, and I hope so. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what he could do. 9 MS. WIRTH: I still question the trespassing. I -- 10 you know, the law states you have to notify the property 11 owner, and I don't believe knocking on someone's door, not 12 getting an answer, is notifying. However, I was told by the 13 Sheriff that there's leeway in the law for them to make their 14 own decisions. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 16 MS. WIRTH: I was told -- actually, what I was told 17 was, "Well, you would have had to deal with a dead deer." 18 Well, I'm prepared to deal with a dead deer, actually. So -- 19 but, nevertheless, that's my story. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 23 MS. WIRTH: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mary Hayes? Your address is 2398 25 Goat Creek Road, which I gather is probably right next door 1-9-12 96 1 to Ms. Wirth, right? 2 MS. HAYES: Well, not exactly. We -- we have quite 3 a bit of property over there, but our road goes next to this 4 fence where this person -- his -- his feeder and his blind -- 5 his blind is less than 25 feet from our road. And this 6 actually did not come to my attention till the end of deer 7 season because of some illness in the family, and I was not 8 using this road until the beginning of December. And I came 9 in and it was after dark, and I heard a shot, that -- you 10 know, the windows are rolled up; I had other things -- 11 surgeries and stuff on my mind, but I was quite startled by 12 it. And -- well, anyway, towards the end of deer season, I 13 find out that -- I noticed the deer feeder, all the deer in 14 and out, and I also thought he was just feeding the deer. 15 But it turns out that -- that this -- I found a headless deer 16 on our property once. I had a spinal fusion. Once I got out 17 of my neck brace not that long ago, I was able to walk around 18 a little bit. I found a headless deer. I found a couple of 19 other corpses of deer. We did not shoot them. There is a 20 bullet hole in the side of our barn, which is right there on 21 the other side of the road. And so I thought, well, maybe 22 what we should do is put up a high fence, but that is very 23 expensive. It's over three-quarters of a mile that we have 24 to fence. 25 So, anyway, I was walking along the fence, and 1-9-12 97 1 there was a man over there, and he came over to me, and it 2 turns out to be the man's son. And I said, you know, this is 3 outrageous, what's going on here. And about that time, this 4 older man came out, and I said -- I said, "I'd like to speak 5 to your" -- well, he said, "Well, my father's the one." I 6 said, "Well, I'd like to speak to him." He said, "You don't 7 want to talk to him now; he's drunk. He's intoxicated." And 8 I said -- well, anyway, he's a drunk over there with 9 firearms. And, anyway, I -- I know I'm doing this backwards, 10 but I saw on the agenda -- it came to my attention that the 11 agenda was going to be this, so I wasn't able to do -- I 12 didn't even know about it before, really. And I know that 13 you all have the ability to -- to regulate for public safety. 14 That's a little vague. But to my way of thinking, this is a 15 real public safety issue. And if y'all do have the ability 16 to regulate for that, then I don't expect a resolution today, 17 but at least it should be thought about. 18 And we're not the only people. I mean, Annie over 19 here, I think somebody's going to get killed or shot. I walk 20 every day that I can walk with my dog, and I walk around 21 here, and we have cattle. We don't have them right now 22 because of the drought, but normally we do. Something's 23 going to get shot, maybe me. This bullet -- I went -- I went 24 into the barn to see if I could find it. I couldn't. But if 25 anybody had been standing outside of there, they would have 1-9-12 98 1 been shot. So, that's about all I have to say. I'm just 2 outraged that this could actually take place without any 3 efforts even to recognize it and address it. I'm not 4 outraged with you all, just with the situation. So, thank 5 you all very much. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Ms. Hayes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't fix stupid. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. Evidently, we can't fix 11 the law. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our hands are -- you 13 know, we can't do much on the -- from changing -- from doing 14 the law. My experience with situations like this is the game 15 wardens have the most authority, you know. But even there, I 16 mean, it's a -- a tough thing. If they -- you know, unless 17 they can see something happen or they're -- you know, I -- 18 you know, I don't know what they can even do. Deer on your 19 property that are, you know, corpses or headless deer, I 20 mean, that's something if they can -- if it continues next 21 year, you may talk with the game warden, advise them ahead of 22 time. They may put up cameras; they may do some things. 23 They do sting operations off highways, and that may be an 24 option to, you know, try to catch them. I mean, game 25 wardens -- not tagging your deer properly is a technicality, 1-9-12 99 1 but it can be a pretty expensive technicality, depending on 2 the J.P. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if you have a camera 4 up, and you -- you can see a person discharging a firearm, 5 and it's got to cross property lines, that's -- that could 6 help, too. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, I've been 8 through this before, and it got -- it got pretty ugly. But 9 one of the things I want to point out is that this is -- you 10 know, most people get -- when they start talking about all 11 this, they start talking about deer hunting, shooting deer. 12 That's not the case. You're talking about discharging a 13 firearm. And I have numerous friends that have shooting 14 ranges in their yard with big berms. There's one in 15 Kerrville South that's underground. And you would -- if you 16 had the ability to -- to adopt a law of some sort, you would 17 be telling those guys they couldn't discharge their firearm 18 on their own property. And so I'm not promoting one way or 19 the other; I'm just saying that's where the fight starts. 20 I've seen this courtroom filled with ticked-off, angry 21 ranchers and deer hunters and gun people. The National Rifle 22 Association came here to give me a good spanking, and they 23 did. And so, you know, it's about discharging a firearm; 24 it's not about shooting deer. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am. Your name and address? 1-9-12 100 1 MISS WIRTH: Chelsea Wirth. I'm currently located 2 in San Antonio, but Annie's my mother, so I -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MISS WIRTH: One thing she did leave out was just 5 recently, when they were out back taking it down, she also 6 ran into the son and the father, and the father was again 7 drunk, and attacked my mom. And it's not the fact that he 8 was verbally abusive to her, but the fact that he is the one 9 with the gun. And I understand what you're saying. I know 10 many hunters; I work for a man who hunting is his life, and I 11 understand that fact. And when you start to change the laws, 12 that takes away from other people who aren't abusing it and 13 who aren't fixing stupid. I understand that. But the fact 14 that he owns that property and he's back there drinking, 15 coming into our store, KOA -- he does buy beer constantly, 16 and the fact that he's back there with a gun -- and, yes, his 17 son might be there, and his son might apologize for his 18 actions and be there, but he's not there all the time. 19 And that is my mother. And my sister goes over 20 there with her grandkids all the time. And I don't know if 21 you know, but especially around Christmastime, when we were 22 there the day after Christmas, you know, and all your 23 family's there and your grandkids, and you can't go out in 24 your back yard, you have to put yourself in that position. 25 And it truly is a scary thing. And standing in that back 1-9-12 101 1 yard -- and when that deer was killed and we got home, there 2 was deer splattered all over our house, my mother's garden, 3 her pots, her plants. And I know, like you said, it's hard 4 to fix the law, because it changes things for everyone, and 5 not just that one gentleman. But the fact that he's drunk 6 with a gun back there shooting, there should be something 7 done about that, because that's where someone's life becomes 8 in very big danger. And if I -- I don't -- I mean, and then 9 it comes to proof. You have -- and that's how -- I know you 10 said earlier about finding the proof and where it comes from, 11 and actually seeing him shooting a gun drunk. You know, and 12 that's -- you can't do anything from hearsay, and I 13 understand that, and I respect that. But, I mean, as my 14 mother said, when a bullet's going to go through our house 15 and then something's going to be done about it, I worry. And 16 I'm in San Antonio, and I -- it's scary. It really is scary. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see that every day, 18 don't you? 19 MISS WIRTH: Oh, I try to, as much as she drags me 20 down here. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: On the streets or in the 22 honky-tonks. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About the best advice I can 24 personally give y'all is, any time it does happen, or any 25 time he is out there -- of course, being drunk on your own 1-9-12 102 1 property with a gun on your own property is, in itself, 2 nothing illegal. But if it -- if it is right up against your 3 property where it's a concern, then the best recommendation I 4 can give you is advise you to call us. Because during 5 hunting season, if you call the game wardens, they're very 6 thin and far apart during hunting season here because of the 7 amount of calls. But definitely call us. Let us go over 8 there and have a visit. If nothing else, when one of my cars 9 drives up, all the deer run off. That ends hunting for that 10 evening, and that's really about all we can do. Now, like 11 with you finding one in your barn, okay, most likely it was 12 something you discovered, but you had no idea when it 13 occurred. And so then -- and without finding that 14 projectile, yes, that is something we could do if we can 15 prove it back, but you've got to be able to prove it back. 16 And what makes it real difficult is when you get a 5-acre 17 tract, and to be honest, a bunch out of Louisiana that come 18 up and lease out those 5-acre tracts, you have 10 hunters on 19 5 acres, and, you know, all with rifles big enough to shoot 20 from here to San Antonio. Instead of -- you know, it makes 21 it very difficult for y'all and us. But the only way we can 22 do it, don't hesitate to call. That's all I can say to you. 23 We'll come out. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Moser? 25 MR. MOSER: I have to say something, just as -- you 1-9-12 103 1 know, one thing you can do to discourage the deer hunting is 2 just making a lot of noise. You know, you can do that on 3 your side, and if deer don't come to the feeder, they're not 4 going to hunt. 5 MISS WIRTH: My brother did that; he was making a 6 lot of noise. He has a greyhound, so he was afraid that his 7 greyhound was going to be confused. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Wind chimes or something. 9 MISS WIRTH: So, he did go out and make a lot of 10 noise. 11 MR. MOSER: Make a lot of noise; the deer won't 12 come. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that can start neighborly 14 feuds. Those last forever and really get ugly. But give us 15 a call; let us -- let us come out there and at least -- you 16 know, there's more than one way to skin a cat, you might say. 17 MS. WIRTH: I would like to say, on your comment 18 about people -- you know, people are doing -- the people that 19 have guns, target ranges on their property, it's legal. I 20 was told by the Sheriff that if you have a backdrop and you 21 have a safe place, that no matter what the size of your 22 property, you can be out there shooting. Well, my home is 23 just the backdrop. My house. My home is his backdrop. 24 So -- you know, and there -- I mean, so if these people have 25 underground shooting ranges, well, that seems perfectly safe. 1-9-12 104 1 If they have backdrops or berms, that seems perfectly safe. 2 To be in a subdivision where there are small tracts of 3 property; his is the largest -- one of the largest at less 4 than half an acre, or just about half an acre. Just how safe 5 can it be? Unless you have an underground or backdrops or 6 berms. So, I just wanted to make that comment. I mean, I 7 don't want to take anybody's -- anybody's rights, have their 8 rights taken from them. But if you're doing it safely -- if 9 there was a -- if this gentleman -- if these people were -- 10 had a shooting range and were safely doing it, I would have 11 no problem. But that's my home and my property. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you what we can do. 13 We can take a copy of the minutes of this meeting and send 14 them to Harvey Hilderbran. We don't make laws in here, but, 15 you know, we simply do what the State tells us to do. And 16 I'd be happy to do that. Wouldn't we, Jody? 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 19 MS. WIRTH: That is a good idea. Both of us, huh? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both of us can do it. 21 MS. WIRTH: Well, thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll all sign it. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Item 16; to 1-9-12 105 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to determine why 2 Court Order Number 32341 was not included in the Fiscal Year 3 2011-12 budget. Commissioner Baldwin. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you. Last 5 year some of the elected officials took a cut in salary in 6 order to help the budget process along, and -- and we had 7 talked -- when we did that, we said that we would reinstate 8 -- restore those funds the following year. And we attempted 9 to do that here, and there has been some -- I asked the 10 County Auditor the other day why -- and I'm just speaking for 11 me. I mean, y'all do whatever you need to do, but I wanted 12 to know why I didn't get my -- I wasn't -- my salary wasn't 13 reinstated or restored. And she tells me that the -- the 14 actual minutes of the meeting and the court order could be 15 two different -- have two different meanings. And I looked 16 at it, and I can see how you can -- I can see how she had 17 arrived at that. However, I remember it quite vividly, how 18 -- what was said, and it was -- Commissioner Letz is the one 19 that was kind of babbling over there a little bit -- I mean, 20 talking about it. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Was that you? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And making -- making the 23 motion, and put this court order together. And this is 24 fairly accurate, according to my memory. And I even remember 25 there was a part in there where he said in our discussions 1-9-12 106 1 where let's -- let's give the -- let's restore the salaries 2 and put it in there, and then each individual could take it 3 or leave it, that option of doing that. And so I'm asking 4 the question, you know, why wasn't my salary restored? And 5 you want to comment, or you just want to sit there? 6 MS. HARGIS: You know, I -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why wasn't my salary 8 restored? Because the court order says to do that. 9 MS. HARGIS: Number one, I don't get copies of 10 court orders. I only get copies of the court orders that go 11 with the bills. I generally go -- since I'm here in the 12 meetings, it was my understanding that either I -- you know, 13 that no one elected it. I mean, I asked everyone, and then 14 -- I guess I just heard it wrong. I mean, it's up to you 15 guys to decide. I mean, the minutes, to me, are a little bit 16 in conflict. It's clear to me that the order doesn't say the 17 same. I didn't see the order until this week. Because I 18 don't -- you know, I had three or four days to get that 19 budget ready to go, and I thought -- you know, Tess and I 20 looked at each other, and we questioned this is what's right, 21 and we went back and did it. Now, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. 22 You know, that's up to the Court to tell me what you want me 23 to do. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think I said over and over 1-9-12 107 1 again there was no big -- no restoration for elected 2 officials that took the cut. It says that in here several 3 times, that was my intent. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on mine -- I mean, you said 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said also, though, that I'd 8 leave it up to elected officials. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, my understanding was 10 that it was elected officials that were not Commissioners 11 Court, which was only a couple of them. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, there is some confusion 14 and conflict there. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, we need to make -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see both sides. I cannot 17 imagine functioning without going by court orders, but 18 let's -- if she's choosing to go that route, that's fine. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did anybody on the Court get 20 theirs restored? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Yes, there was -- 22 there was a couple of people that were restored. Mine 23 wasn't. And I want to tell you, I'm not really wanting -- I 24 want to reject it if it were offered to me. But I just -- 25 I'm really confused, and my feelings are hurt that these 1-9-12 108 1 court orders are not being followed, whether -- whether it 2 went along with the minutes or not. It clearly says in the 3 court order, which is an order of this Court, to do a certain 4 thing, and it wasn't done. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have -- mine was not 6 restored; remained the same as it was last year. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, mine too. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Likewise here as well. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, it's either -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Can I say one thing? The court orders 11 are not issued until after the minutes are prepared. The 12 budget book had to be done by the 29th. I only had three 13 days, so there was no way for me to be able to even see a 14 court order, because it wasn't ready. And so that's one of 15 the problems with this particular issue; that, you know, we 16 were in a time crunch situation. But, you know, I guess -- 17 you know, again, there was a lot of confusion. There's a lot 18 of different -- perhaps -- you know, hindsight's 20/20. We 19 should have clarified this. But I think I also went on 20 earlier, I had polled everyone and asked if they wanted it. 21 I got the response of no, and so maybe I was reacting with my 22 prior asking. And so when this came up, and when I look at 23 the minutes -- to be honest with you, I just looked at the 24 minutes again with the court order. It's a little confusing, 25 because some of the comments are coming from you, some of 1-9-12 109 1 them are coming from Commissioner Oehler, so you don't really 2 know the -- what the end result was. Because, Commissioner 3 Letz, you didn't definitively amend that amendment and tie it 4 down, so I was confused. I thought I understood properly. 5 But it's a minor fix. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What salary was published for 7 us in the paper? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: None of those were gone by. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Those -- those included -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those included the 6 and a 11 half percent. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 6 and a half. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a whole separate issue that 16 may emerge here -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- before too much longer. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Before the Attorney General's 20 opinion. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess my reason for 22 that is, it seems to me that this -- if we voted here -- I 23 mean, if it was -- it has an impact on what gets published 24 again next year. If we were -- if we got it and didn't take 25 it, our salary was still higher, but we didn't take it. So, 1-9-12 110 1 you don't -- but if we didn't get it, then you have to add 2 it, 'cause at some point you -- it has to go back to the 3 public that we're getting an increase. But if we got -- we 4 took the brunt to get the increase this year. 5 MR. HENNEKE: But the budget sets the salary 6 compensation rates for everybody, and that was what was 7 finally voted upon and ratified. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the salaries that were 9 published or the ones that were in the budget? 10 MR. HENNEKE: Well, the ones that were in the 11 budget were the ones that -- that were voted and approved by 12 the Commissioners Court, and are the -- is the operative 13 document. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But then that goes back to, is 15 there an increase in the budget for the Commissioners Court? 16 I mean, whether you took it or not is irrelevant. I can 17 always give back money, but if I got a 4 percent increase and 18 I decided not to take it, that's my option, but my salary's 4 19 percent higher from a budget standpoint. 20 MS. HARGIS: No, we don't publish -- we publish 21 actual. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- well -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was proposed, is what was 24 published in the beginning. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 1-9-12 111 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What we voted on was what was 2 approved. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the question here is, -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what's the meaning of the action 7 taken as represented by this court order? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The action that I intended -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: As to whether or not it was properly 10 placed in the budget or not properly placed in the budget. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, my intention with my 12 second to the motion was that it would be not -- that there 13 would be no elected officials, which was Commissioners Court, 14 that could get it. Any other -- any other elected officials, 15 department heads that we cut could. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That clearly says that in 17 here. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I thought. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 4 percent. It clearly 20 says that -- that the 4 percent is paid excluding elected 21 officials and Commissioners. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no -- that's not an 24 issue. The issue is the second sentence. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 1-9-12 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Restoring the elected 2 officials that took the pay cut the year before. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and the thing is -- 5 I guess my question is, if -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Letz is the one that screwed 7 it up. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. (Laughter.) I know 9 we let him talk too long that day. That's true. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was all straight till Letz 11 screwed it up. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was trying to get something 13 through. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I did. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But how did two people get a 17 salary increase, and the rest of us didn't? 18 MS. HARGIS: Again, I polled everybody at one 19 point, and -- and maybe when I polled you, you were saying, 20 "I don't want the 4 and a half," but I thought that you 21 didn't want any increase, and so that's the reason why I did 22 that. Because I did poll you individually so that I had a 23 better idea of what I was supposed to do, because that was a 24 little confusing to me as well. So, at one point I did poll 25 all of you and ask you, "Do you want it?" And -- and I got 1-9-12 113 1 "no" from the four of you, and "yes" from the Judge and "yes" 2 from Diane and one other person -- well, I think Mindy had 3 originally turned it down. She kept it. So, those are the 4 only two other elected officials that would have been able to 5 be restored. It was confusing. You know, I'll take the 6 blame. I don't mind taking the blame. But the court order 7 did come out after the book was -- was approved, and -- and 8 that day we did not have those in. You know, it's -- even 9 going back and reading the minutes now, it's a little bit 10 confusing. So, again, it's a minor amount of money, and if 11 the Court wishes that, you know, I can -- I'm able -- you 12 know, I admit to making a mistake. It's up to y'all to 13 decide what you want me to do. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, how do we fix it, Rob? 15 MR. HENNEKE: Well, I don't know that you do. I 16 mean, I can look at this and come back in two weeks, but 17 looking at the e-mail that Jannett sent out this morning, I 18 mean, you have -- you know, you have, after the fact, the 19 clerk's office going back and reviewing the minutes, and 20 drafting a -- you know, an order. The way that Jannett said 21 it is that upon further review of what was discussed during 22 the lengthy discussion on this issue, you know, she could 23 have included a phrase that -- that exempted out the 24 Commissioners from those who could be restored. But, I mean, 25 I'll put some lengthy thought into this and provide an 1-9-12 114 1 opinion. I guess my initial thought is that the budget was, 2 you know, the operative document that, you know, set the -- 3 set the salaries of all of the elected officials and 4 employees, and that if the budget was different from what 5 this prior Commissioners Court order was, then essentially 6 the budget, you know, trumped or superseded the prior votes 7 and discussions that were -- that were had. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me it's 9 inconsistent right now. I mean, either -- I mean, I 10 understand the Judge got -- yours was restored. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the others weren't. You 13 know, so either the order is the Judge shouldn't have been 14 restored, or all should be restored -- or all had the option 15 to be restored. That's -- I mean, to me, it's pretty clear; 16 it's got to be one of those. I mean, those are the two 17 options. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If you read -- read the plain -- the 19 plain language of the court order as it now exists, there 20 needs to be a budget amendment to have them restored. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the people want to -- I 22 mean, the Commissioner wants to restore it. I mean, I don't 23 want it. I mean, I said clearly that I wasn't going to get 24 mine restored this year. Next year, I would. But, anyway -- 25 and I said that, and I'll stand by that. So, you know, but I 1-9-12 115 1 think that if somebody else has a -- you know, should be able 2 to be restored. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: My intent was that -- 5 absolutely not restore mine. It wasn't even a doubt about 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think we all said that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did. And -- and that's 10 not my point here at all. My point is, do we live and die by 11 court orders, or do we not? You know. If these -- if we 12 don't have to abide by a court order, let's throw the damn 13 things out the window and quit wasting time in here, you 14 know. That's my point right there. I -- I don't -- you 15 know, if this would have been put in -- put into place, I 16 would have taken the restoration, because that's what we 17 agreed upon a year ago. But it didn't make the budget, and 18 I'm not about to amend the budget over -- over 15 cents, or 19 whatever it is. But my whole point is, is how important is a 20 court order coming out of this Court? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say important. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it is to me. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it is to me too. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, anyway -- well, thank 25 you for your time, gentlemen. Far as I'm concerned -- 1-9-12 116 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the court order stands, and 2 anyone that wants to be restored can be restored. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess. I expect. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If our court orders are important, 5 that's the only interpretation we can give to it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's just say it was not my 9 intent for the court order to read this way, or I would have 10 never seconded the motion. It's not the way I understood it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next time, you make the motion. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: By golly, I'll make it. We 13 went over it two or three times. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, to me, this is a real 15 good lesson in really making these court orders clear and 16 specific, and -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was clear, but 18 evidently it was not. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you go back and read the 20 minutes? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, we talked about 23 everybody's dogs and everything else before we got through. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A lot of that's your fault. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there was actually two 1-9-12 117 1 motions, I think, involved in the thing. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: He blames it on you. You blame it 3 on Letz. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Letz is the one that 6 threw in about the ones that wanted restoration at the very 7 end. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It wasn't my motion originally. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, it was. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go to Item 17; consider, 12 discuss, take appropriate action to approve contracts for 13 another year with AirLife and Air Evac by offering payroll 14 deduction to employees through the county payroll system, 15 allow County Judge to sign the same. Ms. Lantz? This is a 16 repeat of those prior-year contracts? 17 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir, it is. And the County 18 Attorney has looked over the contracts, had made some 19 adjustments. We sent it back to them, and we got them back 20 exactly like the County Attorney had requested. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, whatever issues you had with 22 them have been resolved? 23 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 1-9-12 118 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 18 is to 9 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve lease 10 agreement with Ikon for copier for Human Resources 11 Department; allow County Judge to sign same. 12 MS. LANTZ: The County Attorney and I have been 13 going around on two different companies with renewing a 14 copier agreement. Currently our copier is down, and went 15 down last week, so we have no copier in there right now. I 16 did talk to the County Attorney this morning again about 17 trying to get a copier, and we have a master contract 18 currently on file with Ikon. So, I'm requesting that we can 19 go ahead and get that copier in place. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Ikon what we use? 21 MS. LANTZ: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's a five-year agreement? 23 MS. LANTZ: Yes. We tried to get it down to a 24 one-year, but according to what Ikon has said, that they 25 don't -- they will not go to a one-year, 12-month agreement 1-9-12 119 1 with any type of state/government contracts. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What I see us moving towards is a 4 consolidation by attrition, I guess, to bring them all under 5 one contract. Is that kind of where we're going? 6 MR. HENNEKE: I wish we could. Right now, we're 7 kind of chasing our tail, that we have these agreements in 8 perpetuity. We've got 28 copiers under contract with the 9 county, and each of them have different termination dates, so 10 as one ends, then you do a new term, and that pushes it out 11 five years, so it never seems like we'll have an end in the 12 copiers since, you know, when it -- one office or department 13 expires, they renew; then that binds the County. Ideally, we 14 would have one agreement that expired at a certain date, and 15 provided within that agreement that we could add machines or 16 delete machines at a certain price, but that, you know, there 17 would be an end point. You know, until we redo -- I think I 18 sent y'all a memorandum before Christmas. Until we redo the 19 whole structure, you know, there's no sense in penalizing 20 H.R. by not letting her have a copier. But, you know, as 21 I've discussed, it's -- you know, we're spending a lot of 22 money on copiers, and there's just no end in sight under the 23 way that we are currently doing it, because each new contract 24 -- copier acts as its own new contract under this kind of 25 master agreement that was done back in 2007. 1-9-12 120 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We had the same issue of trying to 2 rework things with Five Star on the various cell phones for 3 various departments. That was a Chinese fire drill of the 4 first order, and we finally got there, kinda-sorta, I think. 5 MR. HENNEKE: But I raise that -- this was the 6 first -- first new copier contract that came up since, and I 7 really looked at what are we doing on this, and -- but Dawn's 8 copier broke, and she doesn't have one, so -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We need one. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You offered a motion, Commissioner? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion a and second for 14 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Is there a -- I 16 mean, is there a plan to fix the problem? 17 MR. HENNEKE: I've outlined the issues with the 18 Court. I mean, if the Court would like to -- to take 19 direction on that, certainly, as we continue to re-obligate 20 ourselves, we stretch it out even longer. If Ikon or Canon, 21 whoever it is, isn't willing to work with us to, you know, 22 get into a different type of lease arrangement, then, you 23 know, we'd have to basically wait until the contracts that we 24 currently have expire until we can get off of that 25 merry-go-round, and get under a new -- new agreement or a new 1-9-12 121 1 system. I think with the money the county spends, folks want 2 to do business with us. I mean, it's $75,000, $80,000 a year 3 that we spend on lease copiers. But, you know, until we get 4 out of what we currently have, we can't really change it as 5 far as looking at is there a cheaper or more efficient -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think that prevents you from 7 entering into negotiations with Ikon or anybody else, saying, 8 "Let's see if we can't pull all these things together under 9 one umbrella." 10 MR. HENNEKE: I'd be glad to. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And for my part, I'd say have at it. 12 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: See what you can get done. And, of 15 course, the -- the stick is, at the end of the road on these 16 other contracts as they continue to expire, we may go to 17 somebody that might give us a master contract that we can -- 18 that we can, you know, have a volume leverage with. 19 That's -- that's my thinking. 20 MR. HENNEKE: Okay, I'll start talking with them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other alternative I 23 can think of is that, you know, that she's going to be in 24 this new one; it's a five-year. Normally, that's what it is. 25 All the other copiers in this county, including three I have 1-9-12 122 1 at my office, contracts are going to expire prior to that 2 five years, okay? And if we -- if they're all renewed in -- 3 you know, it may be that if I renew mine and you don't have a 4 master plan with these, I renew them for the six years or 5 four, you know, something like that, to make it all expire at 6 the same time. If the purchasing people or whoever with the 7 county make them all expire on the same date, then you can at 8 least start from that date and do a master -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's the thing. I 10 think you need to negotiate with Ikon to say, "Okay, we've 11 got most of our copier leases going expire three years from 12 today. You're going to give Dawn a three-year lease on 13 hers." We're not going beyond -- we're not going beyond 14 whatever most of them expire. And if they don't want to do 15 that deal, then we go find somebody else that we can lease 16 with. 17 MS. LANTZ: We've tried that with Xerox and Ikon. 18 They're both in that same -- they want five years. And my 19 only option is just buy what we have, and pay -- you know, 20 pay the repairs on that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're the ones with the 22 money. We're the ones that are paying the contract. You set 23 the terms of the contract, the way you're going to have it, 24 and if they don't like it, go find somebody else. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Almost sounds like a restraint of 1-9-12 123 1 trade issue, doesn't it? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think anybody ought 3 to have an exclusive just because the terms of five-year 4 agreements are different from one office to the next. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At that point, with the cost, 6 you may just have to do an R.F.Q. or a bid proposal and bid 7 out that type of stuff, because the yearly expense is going 8 to be -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just go buy one. That's the 10 alternative. Don't renew it; just go buy one. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Well, we still have -- I mean, I'm 12 willing to have this discussion. We've got H.R. right now 13 without a copier. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Got to have something. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Theirs broke. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm saying, you know, that's 17 the deal. If you don't want to take the deal, go buy her 18 one. 19 MS. LANTZ: My lease ran out on my Xerox, so right 20 now I'm paying $100 a month to keep the Xerox in place, and 21 now it's broken, so I don't know what they're going to charge 22 me, because the contract's already out. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can't charge you. 24 MS. LANTZ: Month-to-month. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they're charging you 1-9-12 124 1 whatever, the contract is out, your copier broke, don't pay 2 the bill. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We need to get something 4 going for you. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me you go out for a 6 request for services, whatever you want to call it, with 7 copier companies. Enter into one or more of them, and put 8 them under a fixed contract. You're talking about a 9 five-year term. That's fine. It's going to be all -- this 10 much to add or subtract, and have them, you know, so we can 11 keep a handle on it, rather than extending them in perpetuity 12 and just -- you know, if they don't want to do it -- if they 13 don't want to submit a proposal, then we, you know, use those 14 that will. Hopefully one of the major copier companies will 15 want our business. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they don't, well, too bad. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now, we've got a motion to 19 give her a copier -- got a motion and a second. Any more 20 questions or comments on the motion? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, wait a minute. If we do 22 go along with this, it's going to be a five-year lease of 23 this thing. Do we want to do that? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's got to have a copier. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Got to have something to work 1-9-12 125 1 with. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand, but go buy one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll find out when we take a vote 4 whether we want to do this. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. All right, excuse me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising 7 your right hand. 8 (Commissioners Baldwin, Overby, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 10 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 11 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, let's go to 13 19; update on Airport Planning Committee meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick update. Guy and I were 15 at the meeting, along with Councilman Conklin and the 16 Auditor, Airport Manager, -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Airport Board members. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Steve King and Tom Moser. 19 And the main purpose of the meeting was to go through the 20 Mooney facility. We met with Barry -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Hodkins. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I knew -- Hodkins? Hodkin, 23 who's C.E.O. of Mooney, went through a very detailed tour of 24 every building out there, what was going on. Spent a lot of 25 time visiting with Barry, kind of talking about things in 1-9-12 126 1 general at Mooney and where they are and where they're going 2 and things of that nature. And some of that discussion we'll 3 talk about a little bit later in an executive session item 4 related to the Mooney lease. But, really, just a -- it was 5 a -- you know, I just wanted to report I think it was a 6 really good exercise to go through everything. Mooney was 7 very up-front. I appreciate -- Tom had a presentation, as 8 did Ilse Bailey as to the leases and kind of -- kind of a 9 little bit of the history there. Mooney started in -- was it 10 '60 -- '57. '57 was the original -- Mooney kicked off 11 operations out there. And, obviously, they've gone through 12 quite a few changes during that period. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just kind of an update 15 that -- that it was a good exercise, pretty much the entire 16 focus of our meeting. And the rest of it we'll discuss when 17 -- as it relates to the lease itself in executive session. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll just follow up with what 19 Commissioner Letz says. I've been through the tour of the 20 facility many times over the years with economic development, 21 so I know it quite well. I think it was good, and it 22 benefited a lot of folks who have not gone through, looked at 23 what facilities we have out there. But I think it was good 24 for Airport Board members. I think it was very good for the 25 city folks that were there that had not gone through it. You 1-9-12 127 1 know that the tough thing about that -- of course, we all 2 know the pendulum in this community about Mooney over the 3 years. I think the sad thing was, I think last time I went 4 through there in '08, there was 410 people employed, and the 5 manufacturing plant was going from item to item with people 6 out there. As we walked through this deal last week, to see 7 nine people out there, it's really sad in our community. 8 Again, that just tells us where we are in our economy. It 9 also tells us the importance of trying to get other things 10 done in our community so that we weren't so just limited to 11 that one area. But, again, I think that it was very 12 beneficial as far as the tour was concerned. You know, it 13 goes hand-in-hand with our -- our master plan ideas, and kind 14 of get everybody up to date on what type of facilities we 15 have in our community, so I think it was very beneficial and 16 good for everybody to see a lot of history and a lot of 17 equipment out there. So, it was good. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said nine? 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Nine folks. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nine folks employed out 21 there. Now, is that actually working on Mooney stuff, or is 22 it a contract with Boeing to do seat buttons, or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's Mooney stuff. But four of 24 the nine are management. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 1-9-12 128 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe more, but there's 3 four that I know of. But one -- really, what they're 4 doing -- I never even had thought about this part of it, and 5 this is kind of -- it is a very important thing long-term. 6 There are over 3,000 Mooneys flying around the world today, 7 and when they break -- oh, 6,000? 6,000 Mooneys flying 8 around the world. When a part is needed, there's one spot in 9 the world where that part is made, pretty much, and that is 10 almost exclusively at Kerrville, at that facility out there. 11 When orders come in for something, they have an inventory of 12 parts, but they also are still manufacturing parts. And 13 that's what the people -- that skeleton crew really is doing 14 out there, using the facility to manufacture parts that are 15 needed for repairs and -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- other things on the 18 aircraft. And that's -- you know, I didn't really even think 19 about that part of it. But that's an important thing looking 20 forward from Mooney's standpoint, is that there is a -- 21 forget about building more airplanes. There's a need for the 22 Mooney -- everything that's out there. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Components. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a need for that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 1-9-12 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Tom Moser on behalf of the 2 Airport Board, do you have any observations you want to make 3 about that? 4 MR. MOSER: I think Commissioner Letz and Overby 5 covered it pretty well. The Airport Board has recognized 6 what the potential could be if Mooney comes and hands in the 7 keys tomorrow, or sometime. So, as part of the master 8 planning operation -- which we are in the final phases, and 9 that'll be completed next month, our master plan. It 10 addresses potential options for Mooney facilities should, in 11 fact, that happen. Right now, we're currently on a 12 month-to-month lease with them, and you guys will talk about 13 that in executive session. But, you know, there's -- as 14 Jonathan mentioned, Commissioner Letz, there's a potential 15 for things. That doesn't say that those services couldn't be 16 moved away to make those parts, too, 'cause it's a big 17 facility. But there's other uses of that facility that could 18 mean revenue for the airport, which would be very significant 19 for aircraft rental and manufacturing for some of the 20 facilities that are there. Some of the facilities just need 21 to be bulldozed and gone, 'cause they're -- they're a hazard. 22 So -- but I think that's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Okay, let's move to 24 Item 20; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 25 designate a Wellness Coordinator and Wellness Sponsor for 1-9-12 130 1 Kerr County. Ms. Lantz? You -- 2 MS. LANTZ: This is part of our -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This ought to be interesting. 4 MS. LANTZ: This is part of our health care 5 coverage that we have through TAC. This is a program they're 6 offering to keep the county healthy, and they've requested 7 that we join the program under that wellness program, and 8 they ask us to designate a coordinator and a sponsor. As far 9 as the coordinator's position, I can do that. However, they 10 requested either an appointed official or an elected official 11 do the sponsor part, 'cause that helps keep us in line with 12 trying to save money on our wellness -- health and wellness 13 benefits. So, that's where that is. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Who's the head cheerleader? 15 MS. LANTZ: I had talked to Jeannie about it. I 16 had also talked to the County Attorney about it. And Jeannie 17 had offered to be the sponsor, unless someone within the 18 Court would like to do that, or an elected official. I did 19 talk to Jennifer Rehme, who is the actual -- over the 20 wellness program coordination at TAC, and I asked her if it 21 had to be an elected official. She said no, it did not. It 22 had to be someone that can help encourage within the county 23 to keep the wellness program going within the county. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Someone like the Sheriff? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was thinking. 1-9-12 131 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm-mm. 2 MS. LANTZ: In February, whoever is designated on 3 the County's part will go to a boot camp, all-exclusive, paid 4 by TAC. It's a two-day boot camp in Austin, so you'll have 5 to do some physical fitness -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if I like those 7 words or not, "boot camp." 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But the Auditor did -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Agree to go to boot camp? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- agree to assume the position of 11 sponsor, -- 12 MS. LANTZ: I'd ask her. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if designated by the Court? 14 MS. HARGIS: I didn't know about the boot camp. I 15 guess I'm ready to go. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the sponsor's the one 17 that goes to boot camp? Am I understanding correctly? 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 19 MS. LANTZ: And the coordinator. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That sounds like a good deal 21 to me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. I want to go watch. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want to go watch. I don't 24 have to play. 25 MS. HARGIS: No. 1-9-12 132 1 MS. LANTZ: It's basically to encourage the 2 employees to eat healthier, exercise. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Fitness. 4 MS. LANTZ: It's basically -- and it goes along 5 with our insurance, healthy employees. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're the coordinator? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I just want to make sure 9 I got both people that'll be at boot camp. 10 MS. LANTZ: Unless you would like to -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Both of you go to boot camp? 12 MS. LANTZ: They'll sponsor both of us, whoever is 13 designated as the sponsor. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Am I allowed to take a video? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What does the county receive? 16 MS. LANTZ: What this does, when -- this is just 17 part of our health insurance, and you can sign up online 18 under Blue Cross/Blue Shield Wellness, and you get points. 19 You actually get points. Those county employees who do want 20 to join are encouraged to eat healthier, you know, and 21 there's a point-based system where you're rewarded, okay? 22 You lose weight; you get a gift card to -- wherever it may 23 be. And it's through the TAC program; we don't offer any of 24 this through our county. Everything is through TAC. So, I 25 mean, there's different stages of rewards that they offer to 1-9-12 133 1 the wellness program, and everybody within the county's 2 eligible to participate -- participate, even the spouses and 3 children. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll make a motion to approve 5 our two representatives. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Dawn as our coordinator, 8 and -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- Ms. Hargis as our sponsor. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'd like to have a report 14 back on the boot camp. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is -- go ahead and vote 16 first. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 18 the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think there is one thing I'd 25 mention, is our agency, as you know, with the -- with the 1-9-12 134 1 fitness center out there, last week was their sign-up. A 2 bunch of employees out there joined up and created their 3 own -- what they call the Biggest Loser, which is a 12-week 4 program. They each put, like, $20 in a pot, and they will -- 5 will eat healthy, work out. Whoever loses the most over the 6 12-week period -- and it may be that once we get more details 7 on this -- 8 MS. LANTZ: I did get that information, yes. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- we do that same thing, same 10 people signed up on this that could help them in excess of 11 what they're doing out there. But there's a large group of 12 county employees that would like something like this. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. That's great 14 news. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 21; 16 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 17 revisions on our current county personnel policy regarding 18 categories of employment, vacation benefits, sick leave 19 benefits, holidays, and bereavement leave. This is scheduled 20 to go into executive session. Is there any part of it that 21 we can do in open? 22 MS. LANTZ: He -- 23 MR. HENNEKE: I've reviewed the policies. I think 24 we can put up the policy. You know, if we get to a point 25 where the discussion leads to something that needs to be 1-9-12 135 1 private, we could do so, but it's not, I mean, really any 2 major changes to the policies. I think it's pretty 3 self-explanatory, and -- and they are what they are, without 4 needing to go into any background or specifics about, you 5 know, any persons. But, certainly, any discussion about what 6 the policy means right there on the page would not be 7 something in executive session. 8 MS. LANTZ: Basically, the changes to all the 9 policies is part-time, where prior part-time employees were 10 receiving benefits. When we had our audit done, and also the 11 external auditors came in, they were asking why part-time 12 employees were getting sick leave, vacation, holiday pay. 13 So, with TAC also reviewing our policy, they -- they also 14 made the suggestion we probably need to revise that where 15 they only get the legal benefits; retirement, FICA, Social 16 Security. 17 MR. HENNEKE: TAC's reviewed it. This is their 18 recommendation. I've reviewed it; I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You're okay with it? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that was the basis for doing 21 these revised policies? 22 MS. LANTZ: That's all it is, is strictly for that 23 one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are we going to get to see 1-9-12 136 1 what those revised policies are before we -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody except the Sheriff's 3 Office, yeah. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, that's kind of what I 5 felt. We haven't seen anything. And a lot of that -- I 6 don't have part-time employees, if it's just in regards to 7 part-time. 8 MS. LANTZ: Yes. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if it's in regards to any 10 other employees -- 11 MR. HENNEKE: It wouldn't be applicable to you; you 12 don't have any part-timers. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I was reading 15 exactly what y'all were saying, and I missed your comments. 16 But I'm going to ask my goofy question, and it's probably 17 going to be the same thing. But under part-time, work at 18 least 20 hours. While they do receive all legally-mandated 19 benefits, part-time people do, such as Social Security, 20 retirement, worker's compensation, insurance, they are not -- 21 underlined -- eligible for other benefits. What other 22 eligible benefits? 23 MS. LANTZ: Sick leave, vacation, holiday pay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they get retirement from 25 county taxpayers? 1-9-12 137 1 MS. LANTZ: That's by law. We have to. It's by 2 law; we have to pay retirement. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Part-time employees? 4 MS. LANTZ: Regular part-time employees. Now, 5 temporary/seasonal, we do not. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get -- I mean, worker's 7 compensation insurance is required by law, but they do not 8 get health insurance, correct? 9 MS. LANTZ: Correct. No benefits, no health 10 insurance. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We do pay them wages; they're 12 entitled to comp, period. End of story. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's interesting to note, it says, 15 "While they do receive all legally-mandated..." Those that 16 we have to give them, we do. Otherwise, they don't, bottom 17 line. 18 MS. LANTZ: And what's happened is -- is we've had 19 employees hired on part-time, and they've seen where other 20 employees are getting those benefits, and then they're asking 21 why they're not getting them. Well, they're not on our 22 position schedule to be paid those benefits. So, in order to 23 make it across the board, Diana Cecil reviewed our policy, 24 and she said technically, part-time, unless they're seasonal 25 or temporary, do not receive any type of benefits. 1-9-12 138 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many is this going to 2 impact? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, what's the numbers of 4 part-time? 5 MS. LANTZ: One. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One person? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we already got a motion, 9 don't we? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a motion? 11 THE CLERK: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to approve 13 the policies as presented. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we do now. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Any other question or 17 discussion on the motion? All in favor, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The next two 23 items are executive session, so we'll go to Section 4 of the 24 agenda, payment of bills. First item there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 1-9-12 139 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 3 bills. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget amendments. 9 I note we have three here on the budget amendment requests 10 for this date. I guess my question is, where -- where's the 11 "from"? 12 MS. HARGIS: We don't have a "from." We -- on the 13 fire protection, we did the revenue, because we knew how much 14 911 was going to give us, but we didn't know what the expense 15 was going to be, because we didn't have the document signed 16 by one of the vendors. This is on that new tower. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the funding's already 18 sitting there? 19 MS. HARGIS: Right, the funding's there. Expense 20 was not there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: On the road districts, this was within 23 -- this was just general road districts. We didn't set up 24 the $16.25 expense. We do have the revenue, because that's 25 tax revenue. And then we are setting this expense up in our 1-9-12 140 1 Center Point wastewater; this is the advertising that we are 2 doing -- that we had to do for the -- all the bidding that we 3 just went through. We will get that money back, but I wanted 4 to set it up in a separate line item so that we can track it 5 well, and we did not budget for that during the budget time 6 because we didn't know we were going to have to do it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On that particular item, did 8 we not advertise in Express News? 9 MS. HARGIS: We did. We -- we did. This is 10 Express News. We also did it here locally in the Daily 11 Times. We did go to the expense of doing this in the 12 high-profile. We also did it on -- Keller put it out on an 13 engineering website and two other websites that were out 14 there. I also individually had to research who these 15 disadvantaged people were, and I individually e-mailed them. 16 The gentleman -- Eric is his first name; I'm sorry, I've 17 forgotten his last name, but he is designated coordinator for 18 this type of thing, and he was pretty specific that we had to 19 do this pretty universal. Once we've done it -- the one good 20 thing about this is once we've done all of these categories, 21 we don't have to go out for bid for disadvantaged on any 22 other grant for two years, so we covered all of our grants. 23 So, even if we did the other stuff you're talking about with 24 Kerrville South and they demanded that, we're covered. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-9-12 141 1 MS. HARGIS: So, we sent it out to a lot of folks. 2 I probably individually sent out 35. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and there are trade -- trade 4 groups you can -- you can put that on. 5 MS. HARGIS: We did. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We did that as well for the various 7 categories of -- 8 MS. HARGIS: But they're very specific. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- trades? 10 MS. HARGIS: Because it's a federal pass-through 11 grant, so we had to follow all of the Davis-Bacon -- the 12 disadvantaged employment act. They actually had to have that 13 designation, so I actually had to find them. I couldn't wait 14 for them to bid; I actually had to send them out 15 individually. I have copies of all that. They actually 16 helped me with some of it. One of the -- the people that bid 17 on -- on the, I believe, financial adviser services -- or not 18 -- legal services was one of those. It's very difficult. 19 Some of the -- Houston has kind of worked on theirs a little 20 bit, I guess because they've had more grants. They have a 21 bigger pool. I had to go to San Antonio, and unfortunately, 22 some of them were disadvantaged, but you couldn't tell where 23 their qualifications were, so some of them may not have had 24 the qualifications, but I sent it to them anyway. So, we 25 even got a call from the attorney that represents W.C. & I.D. 1-9-12 142 1 -- Kendall W.C. & I.D., so it was amazing. I mean, lots of 2 people saw it. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And that, again, is 4 reimbursed, correct? 5 MS. HARGIS: Huh? 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This is reimbursed, again, at 7 the end? 8 MS. HARGIS: They said they would reimburse us 9 those advertising expenses, so we just have to -- again, 10 those are reimbursable, but I have to set it up. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion that the 12 three budget amendments as shown by the summary be approved 13 as presented? 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion made. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 17 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 18 signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Late bills. 23 Looks like it's all Lowe's, isn't it? 24 MS. HARGIS: It is. Apparently, the statement went 25 to the wrong location. We didn't receive it, and then when 1-9-12 143 1 it was located, we need to get these bills paid. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of late bills to Lowe's. Question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. What's the 668? 7 MS. HARGIS: I'm sorry, I don't have the invoice in 8 front of me. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: $668. 10 MS. HARGIS: I think most of these have gone 11 through Maintenance Department, and for miscellaneous items; 12 it's not one item. I can get you a copy of that bill. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just curious. That's 14 kind of a large number compared to the rest of them. That's 15 okay, I'll look it up. Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 17 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any 22 monthly reports? I've been handed monthly reports from 23 County Clerk for the month of December 2011; Constable, 24 Precinct 1 for December 2011; Constable, Precinct 4, for the 25 month of December 2011; Environmental Health, December 2011; 1-9-12 144 1 and Payroll, December 2011. Do I hear a motion that these 2 reports be approved as presented? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion to approve. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated, reports be approved as presented. Further 7 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Report from 13 Commissioners in connection with their liaison or other 14 assignments? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not here, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Overby? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Not at this time. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Letz? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I've covered mine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oehler? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Reports from elected 23 officials or department heads? County Attorney? 24 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you. Gentlemen, this may be a 25 discussion for another time, more lengthy, but I'm working on 1-9-12 145 1 the contract with the architect for the jail expansion, and I 2 visited with the Sheriff on this, and there's two issues that 3 have come up. First of all is defining what the scope of the 4 jail project is. Is it a 46-bed minimum security? Is it 5 whatever will get us 20 years down the road? Is it "X" 6 number of beds? I mean, according to the audit that we had, 7 the Jail Commission says we don't need a bigger jail, but we 8 all know that that's not the case. And so when we're 9 contracting with this architect to design something, what are 10 we having him design? And I think that I need -- certainly 11 need more direction and input from the Court on that issue. 12 Beyond that, as far as negotiating the specifics of 13 the contract, any other terms that we want to make 14 counter-proposals, or when it comes down to brass tacks, I 15 would, you know, propose a representative from the 16 Commissioners Court work with me as the policymaker in those 17 negotiations. There's things on their contract that I've -- 18 I would counter-propose, but I don't feel that I have 19 authority to be making a deal, per se, and I will certainly 20 look for some assistance. I visited with the Sheriff about 21 it too. I think we're both in the same position, that 22 ultimately this contract will be approved by the Court. 23 Before I start -- you know, not really legal terms, but 24 asking for concessions or changes or negotiating money or 25 anything like that, I'd like to have the assistance of one of 1-9-12 146 1 you gentlemen to be comfortable with those recommendations or 2 terms, and, you know, something that can be recommended to 3 the Court later on. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're the liaison. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh-uh, Buster is. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster is? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am. And -- but I'll be 8 happy -- be happy to go along with you, but I also think that 9 we should probably give him some authority to make those 10 decisions as far as the -- you know, and getting -- 11 negotiating to a certain point. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- I mean, I 13 almost -- I think we need to really maybe -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't want one -- you 15 don't even want one commissioner making those kind of 16 decisions either. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I almost agree with you. Maybe 18 on the next agenda, we need to talk about this as a 19 discussion; we're not supposed to be discussing it right now. 20 And to get the Sheriff's input too, because I think we do 21 need to narrow the scope. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The scope is the most 23 important thing that I can see. We had one meeting where 24 Judge Tinley -- and Buster was out of town, talking with 25 the -- the D.A.'s that didn't show, but the judges did. And 1-9-12 147 1 some reps -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He wasn't there either? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, he was. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, he was. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The D.A.'s, okay. But we 6 do -- you know, and it is a very big question. We need -- 7 once we get the scope, and from what Rob and I talked, then a 8 lot of it can fall into place. But we've got to know, are we 9 going to do some internal remodeling? Are we just going to 10 add a minimum or a medium or -- or a full addition? Where 11 are we going to? How long do we want the project to be for? 12 Is that 10 years, 20 years down the road? And all those. 13 But there's got to be a definite scope. What are we going to 14 add? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about a workshop at our 16 next meeting? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but it also -- like, 18 today, I have two questions for you. And your portion of 19 that, to me, would help -- is going to help me make a 20 decision about what Rob's talking about, and one is, what is 21 our population in the last two weeks? And what happened to 22 the minimum security program that we drove to Bastrop to look 23 at? I know I blink and I lose things around here, but it 24 just dropped off the -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think all -- 1-9-12 148 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- conversation somehow. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that all needs to be 3 discussed. Number one, average population for the last two 4 weeks has been about 140 to 145, okay. We're still too high 5 on females. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's come down some. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Overall has, but the females 8 have stayed anywhere running from 22 to 30, when you only 9 have 32 beds total. So -- and that -- that has all been -- 10 that's a major problem. But that's -- you know, I can run 11 you figures on average daily population the last number of 12 years when you put all that -- but we need to come up with a 13 scope. The minimum security deal, it may be that that's 14 still where the Court wants to go once you see exactly how 15 many minimums we have in there. The minimum-medium type 16 facility would give us a lot more options and ability to use 17 that on -- on different classification of inmates, where you 18 could put different ones out there. But those are what -- 19 those are the items that we really need to define and say, 20 "This is what we want. This is where we're going to go." 21 And then I think we can do it. But I don't want to make that 22 decision, you know, by myself, and I know Rob doesn't. And 23 it's something we need input to get this thing off high 24 center to get it moving. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to have a workshop. 1-9-12 149 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Workshop. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sit down in a workshop, draw 3 pictures in the dirt, and -- like we always do. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, Rusty, what I'd 5 like to see from you is a -- to go out five years, maybe, you 6 know, monthly average population, something like that. And, 7 you know, minimum -- security classification of the 8 prisoners, and then, of course, female vs. male. Those seem 9 to me the big components that help really drive this design. 10 I mean -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think those are major 13 components, and I think the current status of your court 14 system is a real major component, 'cause I don't see that 15 changing on the number of cases that are pending in every 16 court, which came up the last time. 'Cause that's hurting 17 us. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Short term, I totally agree, 19 but then I think after the election, there may be some 20 change. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't -- we need to discuss 22 that. I don't see the election changing that court docket 23 situation. 24 MR. HENNEKE: My only question on that -- and to 25 briefly respond to your question, Commissioner, we were 1-9-12 150 1 talking about two 48-bed minimum security pods. That's what 2 y'all looked at, until the Jail Commission said we are not 3 going to let you build more than one. If you're going to 4 build more than one 48, then we're going to make you go ahead 5 and add onto the maximum, which is how we kind of ended up 6 with the RFP and the architect. But, Jeannie, if you can 7 clarify, if we're looking at having to go into the market, 8 and, you know, we've got a February 13th workshop for the 9 capital improvements, do we need to be having our -- our 10 decisions made on the jail before the 13th so that we have a 11 number to plug in on the 13th? 12 MS. HARGIS: We need a number. We need a number on 13 the jail. We need a scope on the jail, because the jail is 14 going to determine what we can and cannot sell. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Without first determining the 16 probable scope and the length of time that we want this 17 result to fix the problem for, only then can the architect 18 give us a decent number to plug into the capital, so we need 19 to do the jail thing significantly, I would say, ahead of the 20 workshop on that number on the 13th. 21 MR. HENNEKE: I would suggest the workshop happen 22 sooner rather than later, so that once that's happened, we 23 can -- then I can meet with the architect and finalize the 24 contract to then get the number from him that we'll need to 25 plug in for the -- 1-9-12 151 1 MS. HARGIS: Keep in mind, we can't do a big jail 2 on seven years. We can't afford that. So, if we have to do 3 a -- you know, a 10 -- anywhere from, I would say, 6 to 12 4 million dollar addition, we are going to have to go out for 5 -- I mean, to be able to go out to the public so that we can 6 stretch this out for 30 years. You can only do a tax 7 anticipation note as a Commissioners Court for seven years. 8 Seven years. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Seven years. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we ought to have a 11 workshop next week. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about next Monday? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be great. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can have all those reports 15 and the type of figures you're asking for, Jonathan, within a 16 day, okay. That's no -- that's not a hard issue to get 17 together and give you for that. A lot of it I already have. 18 And -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Monday? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Monday. Monday morning. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's fine. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monday at 9:00? 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 9 o'clock? That's fine. 25 I've got some activities at 7:00. 1-9-12 152 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Monday at 9:00? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9:00. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I'm not -- I tell you 5 what, now. If I had -- if I had to vote right now, I just 6 don't -- I don't think the public has the stomach for a big 7 jail. You know, I don't have a problem with making that 8 decision, because you decide whether you want bad guys 9 running around the street or you want them locked up. See, I 10 don't -- that, to me, is a pretty simple deal. But the 11 general public, I just don't think -- that will upset their 12 tummy if you start talking about a large amount of money. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to do what they want 15 to do. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Auditor? 17 MS. HARGIS: You may or may not be aware, but I'd 18 like to make the Court aware. Last week on Thursday, we met 19 as a group to deal with the criminal justice reporting 20 requirements for the amount of cases that are closed, the 21 amount of closed cases that we have. And the reason we met 22 is the Legislature gave us a Merry Christmas present via 23 myself on December the 14th, and said we have to be at 90 24 percent complete or we won't get the grants for the current 25 year for 2012. Nor will we -- and then after that -- and 1-9-12 153 1 this would only be the jail grants, but then after that, we 2 wouldn't -- it would affect our juvenile grants, as well as 3 criminal justice grants, anything else that we have out 4 there. This is the first time I've attended one of these 5 meetings. It went very well. Rob was there. I think that 6 the clerks have a good handle on this situation. 7 I think Rob's office -- I visited with Wayne; Rob 8 didn't know I visited with Wayne again, and found -- and 9 looking through the software program, John has a good handle 10 on this. I mean, I was really pleased that he is kind of 11 ahead of everybody as far as the data that we're entering. 12 But the one link that seems to be the problem link is -- is 13 the D.A.'s, and -- and the way that the cases are either 14 accepted or rejected. And the problem is that they don't 15 want to use Odyssey, and we may have to go in there and visit 16 with them. Now, we had one D.A. present. One was not 17 invited accidentally, so we're going to try to get back 18 together again in March. The clerk's office -- both clerk's 19 offices and the jail are now working on these lists that they 20 received from the criminal justice representative. We can't 21 actually even print the old ones, but they gave them to us 22 from 2006. We have about 1,000 names to go through. 23 Once we find a mistake, we can't just write it down 24 and say, "This is a mistake." We have to document that 25 mistake. We have to fax it -- not mail it, fax it to their 1-9-12 154 1 offices. They're going to review it. They're the only ones 2 that can remove it. So, we have from 2006 to 2010 to clear 3 up. Then we're going to have '11 coming in on top of us 4 again. I don't -- I think that our clerks have got a good 5 handle on it. I think the representatives within the clerk's 6 office know what they're doing. It's just that we're going 7 to have to put this team together to get to 90 percent. 8 Whether we get there or not, it's going to be real hard, 9 because there are a lot of cases that just have to 10 remain open. Amos had one that -- and I'm not familiar with 11 it, but it was a case where the person went up for murder, 12 but there were other indictments. If that person were to get 13 out early, then they could go to the next indictment. So, 14 there's a reason behind some of this. 15 But there seems to be a disconnect between -- and 16 you weren't there -- between when Rob's office rejects and 17 sends it up, or vice versa. And that's where the problem is, 18 because Rob's office rejects it properly in Odyssey or 19 accepts it properly in Odyssey, but the other two agencies -- 20 two D.A.'s offices are not, so they're still showing up on 21 this report. And so once a case is either bumped up to a 22 felony or bumped down to a misdemeanor, if those are not 23 rejected properly in the system, they still show up as a case 24 twice. Instead of once, twice. And we found those on -- I 25 mean, both Rob and -- and Amos immediately looked down at 1-9-12 155 1 some of the list and found those errors. But we've got to -- 2 as we go forward, if the Legislature's going to require us 3 this 90 percent, we could lose -- this year, I think 4 Sheriff's office doesn't have any, but we have gotten as much 5 as a couple hundred thousand from them over a period of time. 6 There's only 250 out there to get this year, but that doesn't 7 mean that we wouldn't increase in other years. Our juvenile 8 grant is substantial. Our juvenile grant -- and the 9 juveniles are all over. They're all over 90 percent; we 10 don't have to worry about them. But if they take that pot 11 and blend it together, then we could lose juvenile, and 12 that's 400 to 450 thousand. Then you've got Rosa's grant, 13 which would then plop into that, so that's 50,000. So, we're 14 looking at a half a million, you know, three-quarters of a 15 million. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do the district attorneys have any 17 money at risk? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only if they apply for a 19 grant. 20 MS. HARGIS: No. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's all tied to the grant, 22 but it's the police department; it's Ingram Marshal's office. 23 All of it affects -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Anybody in Kerr County. So, if we 25 don't get to 90 percent, then we affect the police, the -- 1-9-12 156 1 you know, and they have applied for grants. And we actually 2 affect Ingram. We could even get into the fire departments. 3 So, this whole situation -- I think these guys are on top of 4 it, but I'm going to get more on top of it, just so it works. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are some issues we can't 6 control, such as they use this two-year statute of 7 limitations as part of it, and in doing that, where you get 8 zinged is if that case is left open more than two years. 9 There are a lot of criminal cases in this county that have to 10 be left open more than two years. We're going to get zinged 11 on that 90 percent because of that. You take the Vincent 12 Seard case, okay. That case is open a long time, just 'cause 13 of circumstances beyond. You get zinged on that. The other 14 issue that you have -- and D.P.S. even told us they have 15 rooms as big as this courtroom full of those reports, of 16 those -- those, you know, reporting requirements. But 17 because of D.P.S. cuts and things like that, it could be in 18 that room, and it hasn't been verified in the computer yet. 19 A lot of this is totally beyond our control. But what is in 20 our control, we've got to pretty well be exact to make up for 21 the other, or we will never reach 90 percent, and we will 22 never be eligible for criminal justice grants; us, P.D., 23 Ingram or anyone else, unless we can get those straightened 24 out. 25 MR. TROLINGER: I wanted to speak before the 1-9-12 157 1 Sheriff said we wouldn't reach 90 percent, but from an I.T. 2 perspective -- and I've gone over this with the Court a 3 couple of times over the past six years. The District 4 Attorneys must participate in our system. This is only one 5 symptom of the problems of the District Attorneys not 6 participating in Odyssey. Now, it's a financial issue; you 7 can see the numbers. But I'm telling you, thousands of 8 dollars, and I don't know how many, are being lost 'cause the 9 D.A.'s are not participating in the system. So, there's a 10 relatively new software component of Odyssey that we want to 11 throw in there, and that's to integrate the courts, and I 12 won't say paperless, but to automate the process in the 13 courtrooms so that things like what Rob's doing now are going 14 to be integrated in Odyssey. The other thing I wanted to say 15 was the County Attorney's office always has been a 16 participant in Odyssey, and they're probably the ones that 17 have got us up close to 90 percent as it is. 18 MS. HARGIS: And -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: I think if we take the list that 20 D.P.S. has given us and address it with each -- with the 21 County Attorney and the District Attorney that's 22 participating, that we'll make 90 percent. But it's -- 23 MS. HARGIS: It's going to be tough. But I will 24 tell you, I did -- I went down to get a little bit of 25 training, because the day of the meeting -- since it's my 1-9-12 158 1 first meeting in participating in this. Apparently, they've 2 been meeting for a couple years. I went down just to see how 3 easy or hard this situation was, and within three or four 4 buttons, we were there and it was done. And it can only be 5 accessed through the prosecutor's systems; that's the reason 6 I had to go down and look at Rob's. But, I mean, literally, 7 Wayne did -- he hit one screen, second screen, third screen; 8 we're done. And why they can't do that -- and so I would 9 suggest to you that, you know, we control some of their 10 budget, and -- and we need to make them participate. Because 11 if we lose this money, they don't get a budget. Because if 12 they're the ones that are keeping us from doing it, and the 13 one -- the one D.A. that was there was going to go back and 14 work on it. Whether he would agree to go onto Odyssey, I 15 don't know. They both have it. They both have access to it. 16 I would suggest we retrain them, and -- and see that they 17 will cooperate with us. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- why are they -- why 19 don't they? What's the resistance? 20 MS. HARGIS: I think -- I've been told it's 21 basically because they cover more than one county, so that 22 having to do just Kerr County for that system was laborious; 23 they didn't have the staff for it. So, that's what I've been 24 told. Now, it's also my understanding that every county has 25 a different designation, whereas before they didn't. Like, 1-9-12 159 1 ours is "ORC" or something like that. Whereas before, the 2 district was just one, and you have to go in individually and 3 pick those cases out. That's not the case any more. So, 4 going forward, they would know exactly who the Kerr County 5 cases were, and they could work on those. And I'm sure that 6 Rob sends those cases over there; they get them. They know 7 which ones are going up and down. I mean, I can't believe 8 that they don't work with each other enough. So, I mean, 9 it's -- and I'm not -- I'm going to work with them and try to 10 do it as diplomatically as possible. But to me, this is a 11 monetary problem now, not just a reporting problem. We can't 12 afford to lose three-quarters of a million dollars. That's 13 ridiculous. We have to work together as a team. And we 14 reassured the D.P.S. representative, because he had to go 15 back with that, that we were a team and that we would work 16 together as a team. So, we have a couple of missing links, 17 and we just need to fix those missing links. But I did want 18 y'all to be aware of it. We are working real hard on it 19 right now. I mean, the -- as I said, the clerk's office and 20 Rob's office, everybody's participating. Even the D.A. that 21 wasn't there has a copy of the list, and they're 22 participating, so hopefully we'll get the mistakes fixed, 23 sent up to Austin. And then we're going to ask for them to 24 rerun them and see where we're at. Maybe we'll get there. 25 Some of the years -- one year we were at 83 percent. That's 1-9-12 160 1 going to be a little tough. The other years we weren't that 2 far off, and I think we can probably get there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I have every confidence that our law 4 enforcement representative on this Court can convince those 5 District Attorneys to do whatever is necessary to be part of 6 the overall team to get this matter resolved. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And I'm sure he can get it done. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's working at it; I'll put 11 it out there. And that's not me; that's Clay. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any of our elected officials? 14 Department heads? Okay. Anybody else? Okay. It's now 15 12:41, and we will go out of open or public session for the 16 purpose of going into executive for a short period in order 17 to take up the two remaining items that we have. 18 MR. HENNEKE: Before we go out of open session, 19 Judge, on 1.23, I think that it should be executive session 20 pursuant to 551.071, attorney/client consultation. I think 21 there's just a typo on the agenda. I wanted to correct that 22 on the record. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 (The open session was closed at 12:41 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 25 is contained in a separate document.) - - - - - - - - - - 1-9-12 161 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I ask you a 2 question right quick? We've set a workshop for Monday at 3 9:00 on the jail issue. Should we get specific? I mean, I 4 want to talk about the minimum security thing, like what we 5 went to Bastrop to see. I want to make sure that that is on 6 the agenda to talk about. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a very integral part 8 of it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have -- what are the 10 other talking points? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Whether we enlarge the existing jail 12 as part of the maximum, whether we put modules -- a 13 modular -- modules, or whether we do some of both, or -- or 14 nothing. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to talk to 18 Jody about that as far as the agenda is concerned? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought our law enforcement rep 20 would be the one that would take the lead on that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have one? Oh, our law 22 enforcement rep? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: On the Court, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I get something to do? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 1-9-12 162 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But I think one of the things 2 that needs to be -- Rusty needs to come up with the numbers 3 that we talked about. I mean, population, classifications. 4 I mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For what -- what's the time 6 frame you asked? 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I said five years, just 8 because, you know, I don't care what happened 20 years ago. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, are we going to talk 10 about the Ag Barn in this deal too? Or is it just going to 11 be jail in this one? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: This one's just jail. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Jail. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to do the other 15 one the 13th? 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 23rd, I thought. What's the 17 13th? 18 MR. HENNEKE: February 13th is the capital items. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's February. 20 MR. HENNEKE: February 13th. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: February 13th is capital. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ag Barn could be done too if 23 we're ready. That's kind of -- I think you ought to put it 24 on there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: For Monday? 1-9-12 163 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because we know a little bit 4 about what we have that could be reallocated, and see. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got some numbers. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- some numbers, yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is 1:02 p.m., and we will 10 now go into open or public session. Does any member of the 11 Court have anything to offer with respect to Item 22; 12 litigation -- pending litigation between Kerr County and 13 eGovernment Technologies? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 15 accept the settlement proposal as presented by the County 16 Attorney. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion? 20 MR. HENNEKE: And authorize Judge Tinley to approve 21 and sign on behalf of the County. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that was included. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 25 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 1-9-12 164 1 hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Any member of 6 the Court have anything to offer with regard to Item 23, 7 update regarding Mooney lease? That's a discussion item 8 only, so no action can be taken. Anything else to come 9 before the Court at this time? Hearing nothing further, 10 we'll be adjourned. 11 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:05 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 13th day of January, 21 2012. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 1-9-12