1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, January 30, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 30, 2012 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' input - --- Commissioners' comments 3 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 5 regarding all aspects of demolition, bidding and construction of new show barn at Hill 6 Country Youth Exhibit Center 5 7 --- Adjourned 20 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, January 30, 2012, at 10:47 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will call to order the special 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and 9 scheduled for this date, Monday, January 30th, 2012, at 9:00 10 a.m. Of course, we had the workshop prior to that, and this 11 item was immediately following. The first item -- first of 12 all, I notice there's a visitor's input on this particular 13 meeting. Is there any member of the public or audience that 14 has anything they wish to offer or bring to the Court's 15 attention that is not a listed agenda item on the special 16 meeting agenda? Seeing no one seeking recognition or coming 17 forward, we'll move on. Any Commissioner have any comment to 18 make with respect to any matter that -- Commissioner 1? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Three? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will make a comment, which I 24 hadn't planned on. I don't know if anyone else saw 25 "60 Minutes" last night, but I'll -- hats off to a very 1-30-12 4 1 good -- Charley Seale did a great job representing the exotic 2 hunting -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exotic Wildlife. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, exotic hunting. He's 5 head of the Exotic Wildlife Association, but he did a really 6 good job. He almost said a few things; then he caught 7 himself before he said them. And then David Bamberger also 8 did a really good job. So -- but I thought Charley did 9 excellent. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. I watched 11 it; I was tipped off that it was going to happen. I just 12 don't know what -- some of these people think that, you know, 13 ranching must just be an endless source of money for people 14 just to have animals and never sell any or do anything with 15 them, to be able to sustain ranching life, whether it be 16 exotic or domestic. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I too saw it. I was not 20 aware it was on. I was watching it, and I thought -- I 21 thought our local people gave a very good account of 22 themselves. The explanation is very, very simple. But for 23 the fact that they're able to do some harvesting, the 24 conservation effort wouldn't occur here. And the -- the 25 "never kill anything" folks say, well, let's just do it back 1-30-12 5 1 to Africa. Well, we'll get the result that -- that they 2 anticipate, and already have back in Africa. They don't have 3 any, because they don't have any conservation programs. So, 4 I don't see how that serves the purpose of the "never kill 5 anything" folks. But I guess they assume that under the 6 capitalist system, folks that are not able to generate any 7 income out of -- out of what they raise here will just keep 8 raising that which gives them no income, which I think is an 9 absolutely ludicrous way of thinking. But so be it, I guess. 10 Okay. Let's get on with our agenda, then, to consider, 11 discuss, take appropriate action regarding all aspects of 12 demolition, bidding, and construction of the new show barn at 13 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. This matter was 14 placed on the agenda at the request of Commissioner Oehler, 15 so I'll lay it off to him. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I talked to Peter 17 Lewis a little bit about kind of a few things. One of the 18 first things that he said we need to do is we need to get the 19 building checked for asbestos, just in case there is some; 20 that would have some bearing on the demolition. What this is 21 really doing is trying to put in order some kind of a 22 schedule of what we're going to do, when, and how -- you 23 know, how much involvement we need from the architect as far 24 as drawing specifications and plans to be bid. And I guess 25 that's where -- kind of where we are. We need to figure out 1-30-12 6 1 what it is that we want Peter Lewis -- or do we want to go 2 out for a bid or proposal for some other architect to do 3 this? Or do we want to stick with Peter Lewis, who has 4 started this with us, and drew the original plans? And then 5 he's calling them the revised floor plan for us. So, I think 6 it's the pleasure of the Court which way we want to proceed 7 from here forward. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm trying to think of the language 9 of the court order by which we authorized him to go forward 10 with respect to what he's doing, as to whether that -- 11 whether that's open-ended enough -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for him just to proceed. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that we need to 15 authorize, by court order, what we intend to do -- what we 16 intend for him to do, if we intend for him to move forward 17 from here. Because I believe all that we did was authorize 18 him to draw a floor plan, me to work with him, which I did, 19 with the other people with a vested interest, Stock Show and 20 4-H. But I'm not sure that he has the -- the authorization 21 to proceed. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure it won't hurt 23 anything. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So let's just do that. If 1-30-12 7 1 you have an intention for him to carry on, let's just do it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, I think we're 3 going to have to figure out how much involvement we want him 4 to have. I mean, it's going to require -- in order to go out 5 for public bid, we're going to have to specify plumbing; 6 we're going to have to have soil tests done out there in 7 order to figure out what the engineered slab needs to be, how 8 much material has to be cut out, how much has to be put back 9 and rolled and compacted, the thicknesses of all that for the 10 slab. We need to give the dimensions, which we already have, 11 number of doors. We also need to decide whether we're going 12 to have block wall construction up so high, so we have an 13 inside and outside wall up, say, 8 feet high all the way 14 around. We need to say the things that we want to put into 15 that so it can be drawn into a specification and plan for 16 bid. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the asbestos issue, is 18 that something that he would do, is go find someone to do 19 that kind of -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, he -- yes, he would. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or do we send Letz out 22 there? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We just send Letz. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that would be something 25 that the architect does? 1-30-12 8 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say so. They would 2 -- they know the people to get to do that, and have them come 3 and do an inspection of the building. Which I think is a 4 prudent thing to do for us, because we don't want to -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- have problems, you know, 7 down the road. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The same with the soil. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same with the soil. Some of 10 those things are just a must in doing a public -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- project. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- and I have no 14 problem going with Peter, but do we have to -- can we just 15 hire Peter under a new contract? Or do we have to advertise? 16 For Peter to -- because we're talking about, you know, his 17 compensation generally. And what -- and what's coming to 18 mind is, I think we need to negotiate the fee, 'cause this 19 is -- the fee for this building, in my mind, should not be 20 the standard, which tends to be 7 or 8 percent. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, this is 23 not as -- certainly, it's not the same as building a 24 courthouse. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 1-30-12 9 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a jail or whatever. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's very different, because 3 you have a pre-engineered building to begin with, but then 4 you have certain minor specifications, like plumbing and 5 electrical. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Things like that that need to 8 be done in order to put it out, so -- for a public bid. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, from our standpoint, 10 the purpose of the architect is to sign off that things are 11 being done, and I think that's very important. So, you have 12 to have someone do that for us, unless one of y'all's going 13 to be out there every day watching these doors -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of threw your name 15 out there. But -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I said "y'all." 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, are y'all talking about 18 a flat fee to him or a percentage? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. Either. I -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Negotiable. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Negotiable. That's why I'm 22 asking the questions. Do we enter into an agreement? Do we 23 have to advertise, or can we just hire? 24 MR. HENNEKE: You can hire. 25 MS. HARGIS: You can hire. 1-30-12 10 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we then should, at our 2 next agenda, or even at Monday's, get Peter in here and talk 3 to him. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good -- 5 Monday we're having a special meeting anyway. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Tuesday. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tuesday. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See if Peter's available, to 9 have Peter come so we can go over that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I wouldn't mind having 11 this very same thing back on the agenda to visit with him 12 about so that we can get input from him. Might give us a 13 better idea of kind of a chronological order. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have that 15 chronological order? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We do not. I've got what -- 17 what I've got written down here; that's what you have so far. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's more than is down 19 here on this end of the table. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Have him give us a timeline, 21 then. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would like to have a 23 timeline, and also we negotiate with him what it is that we 24 need to comply with the law for public buildings. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, back to this 1-30-12 11 1 chronological order, issues that we want to address, do you 2 think that we need to work up a list of things and send to 3 him, and please come into our courtroom and answer these 4 questions? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can do that pretty -- I can 7 do this. I mean, this is fairly cut-and-dried, what we need 8 to do and the process that needs to happen. It's just a 9 matter of what order it goes in. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Knowing the type of -- of 12 construction that we're doing and the amount of finish out 13 and what the various amenities are, I think he needs to be in 14 a position to tell us -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what the requirements are. And, 17 of course, it's going to be required to comply with A.D.A. 18 and other legal requirements. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. There's more to A.D.A. 20 than just right-size restrooms and stalls and things like 21 that. You've got lighting, you know, emergency exit lighting 22 and things that have to be addressed in a public building 23 that size. More so -- more things than we might have thought 24 about doing by ourselves. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know something else you need 1-30-12 12 1 to add to your list is infrastructure needs, electrical and 2 plumbing. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I just hadn't written 4 it down, but that's on here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is on your list? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Asbestos check, demo, soil 7 test, size of building specs, architect involvement, and 8 electrical and plumbing. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: A.D.A. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, A.D.A. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And other legal. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Building codes and stuff. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which he is totally familiar 14 with, I'm sure. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, I will give him 17 that list and invite him in here next Tuesday. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing I think we need 19 to talk to him about is, are we going to -- do we want him to 20 find the metal building, or are we going to find the metal 21 building? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, see, that's another 23 thing. We could actually buy the metal building ourselves, 24 and then we could put out for bid the construction of it. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Installation. 1-30-12 13 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Putting it in. 2 MR. HENNEKE: I think you want to bid that as part 3 of the -- I think once you have it, then you're going to want 4 to go out for bid and -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the general. 6 MR. HENNEKE: Let the general go get bids for metal 7 building companies and get the best price, and, you know, get 8 some competitive bidding there. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's several ways to do 10 it, but I really hope that we wind up with a general doing 11 the whole project, and not -- unless we do demo separately. 12 You know, it gets too convoluted, and it takes longer. 13 And -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is he going to be the 15 project manager to sign off on the -- that the electrical was 16 done correctly, and -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think that's what we 18 need to decide, if that's what we want to do. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I don't think you 20 want us to do that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't want -- not me. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're going to have some 23 intervening activity by the Road and Bridge. They're going 24 to do the site work, and so they're going to have to 25 stabilize the soil, whatever, so that they can clear their 1-30-12 14 1 skirts when they're through there. That will cap our 2 liability at that, and we'll have engineering sign-offs to do 3 that. And then beyond that, they'll do -- they'll pour the 4 slab and plumbing and all that other good stuff. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But he'll do the pad. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm probably inclined to let 8 the general do the demo, and the reason is when you get right 9 next to the -- the current arena, there's -- where they're 10 all kind of -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There won't be anything next 12 to the current arena being torn down. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's concrete there, right? 14 Isn't that the area -- I thought the new building was going 15 right next -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The concrete will have to be 17 taken out, hauled off. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's some issues on that 19 connection, it seems better to let them be responsible for 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there going to be good separation 23 between the exhibit hall in front, where there won't be 24 damage to the front portion? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's just a cold 1-30-12 15 1 joint there that they have. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just a straight joint where 4 they join that building on. It wasn't staggered in when it 5 was blocked, so it shouldn't have any effect at all on the 6 integrity of the wall in the Exhibition Hall. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause it's nothing really 9 attached; just butted up against it. It's not tied in. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That will make it easier. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I looked at that the other 12 day. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But that'll be another -- another 14 issue, whether or not it's more advantageous to have the 15 contractor do both the demolition and the new construction, 16 with us doing the intervening work on the site work, and -- 17 and doing a pad. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it makes it pretty 19 clean that way. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we -- do we know 22 specifically where these funds are going to come from to pay 23 for his services? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out of the -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Out of the money -- 1-30-12 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out of the bond or C.O. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The one that we're going to 3 do? Or are you going to do it -- isn't there some -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, we have -- there's 5 300,000 -- or 260,000. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The reallocated funds. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reallocated funds. We can look 8 at that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take it out of that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is a good point, 'cause 11 that's part -- of course, we may not want to go too far until 12 you sell some, but you could start spending some money, 13 'cause we have some money, as long as we're not tearing 14 anything down. We can do the soil test; there's money for 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably want to start as 17 soon as possible, too, you know. That money's sitting there 18 ready to go. 19 MR. HENNEKE: You're going to need that before you 20 could bid the project. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we have -- 22 MR. HENNEKE: Asbestos, soil test. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have the funds to pay for 24 the asbestos and soil test out of that -- out of that 25 reallocation. 1-30-12 17 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just don't know how close 2 together or how tight the cross-section needs to be of the 3 soil test to determine, you know, how many holes they're 4 going to have to drill, how close those have to be right 5 underneath where the building's going. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of them, the footprint's 7 going to be exterior walls are going to be on one side beyond 8 the building. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other side, they're going 11 to be where the -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where the wash rack is. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- wash rack is, so they can 14 get a truck in there and drill right through concrete. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You do all the -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as they don't hit a 17 plumbing line. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- that kind of 19 bothers me a little bit. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question, Tim? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. We haven't forgotten we 22 need sound back there? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that's not -- that's not 24 this issue. That's part of the project, but -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 1-30-12 18 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- too early for that yet. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, another possible option 5 may be on the environmental assessment, I'm not sure you're 6 required to specify. You can seek bids for demolition, for 7 example, and your prospective bidders will satisfy themselves 8 whether or not there's any environmental hazards that must be 9 handled as part of that. That may be another issue we want 10 him to -- to answer with regard to that. 11 MS. HARGIS: I think you have to sign off on that, 12 though. You'd actually have to sign off. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 14 MS. HARGIS: I think you have to have that study 15 done going forward, the asbestos study, regardless. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we'll find out Tuesday. 17 MS. HARGIS: Before you can tear it down. That's 18 what he made us do over here. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, this is the only way I 20 know to get the ball rolling. Let's talk about it, and then 21 let's figure out where we're headed and get some advice. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we make some decisions on 23 Tuesday. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we wrung this one out 25 all we can do today? 1-30-12 19 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- I really think it 2 is important that he knows what our questions are so that he 3 can come in and -- you know, and present to us what the 4 answers to our questions are so we can get -- get -- kick the 5 can down the road a little ways. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will visit with him and 7 share this with him. He ought to be ready to answer some 8 questions on Tuesday. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure he's going to have some 10 more items that he thinks needs to be brought to our 11 attention. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I feel sure he will. He 13 always does. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example, is Buzzie 15 open on Monday? That kind of thing. That's what I would ask 16 him if he were my employee. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, Commissioner, 18 Buzzie's is in Precinct 3. I appreciate you frequenting 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that did it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably won't hear about that 22 again, will we? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else to come before us on 25 our agenda today? 1-30-12 20 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be adjourned. 3 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:05 a.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of January, 14 2012. 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-30-12