1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, February 27, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 27, 2012 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 7 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept 2011 Partial Racial Profiling report for 5 Kerr County Constables 1 & 4 10 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept final alternate plat for Lot 1 of the 7 Jas. Spicer Survey 1136, Abstract 1684, Pct. 1 11 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to go out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, 9 aggregate, emulsion oil, & corrugated metal pipe 13 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit report of Trust Accounts Audit for 11 District Clerk’s office 14 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to publish Request for Qualifications seeking legal 13 services to assist County in process for creation of county-wide Emergency Services District 15 14 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 authorize Maintenance Department to fill position which will be vacant via resignation effective 16 9/30/12; request to fill vacancy now to allow time for training 22 17 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 ban space heaters in all Kerr County facilities 24 19 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to lower rates for use of Outdoor Arena at the 20 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 30 21 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding contract with Peter Lewis for reno- 22 vations at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 32 23 1.11 Presentation by Craig Taylor regarding the EUL of the VA housing project 56 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 appoint Bob Reeves to ESD #2 for 2-year term 84 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 27, 2012 2 PAGE 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 allow building located at 1994 Airport Loop to be used as a welding/automotive training site 4 for area welding companies 85 5 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend contract for events at Hill Country Youth 6 Exhibit Center 96 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit reports for Justices of the Peace, 8 Precincts 1-4 102 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit report of County Clerk Trust 10 accounts 103 11 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on Agreement to Provide Bond Counsel Services for 12 possible capital financing issue from the Law Offices of McCall, Parkhurst & Horton, L.L.P.; 13 allow County Judge to sign the same 104 14 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding interlocal agreement between Kerr 15 County and City of Ingram for street work, sealcoat, and use of Cat 112 motor grader 105 16 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 authorizing county surveyor to survey property needed for additional right-of-way for proposed 18 TexDOT Lazy Valley Bridge replacement project 109 19 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Juvenile Detention Facility to hire 20 one additional part-time staff to replace anticipated vacancy 110 21 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 22 regarding capital items list for proposed debt issue 111 23 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 approve order authorizing publication of notice of intention to issue certificates of obligation 25 to finance acquisition of equipment & construction or improvement of facilities in the county 115 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 27, 2012 2 PAGE 3 4.1 Pay Bills 116 4.2 Budget Amendments 116 4 4.3 Late Bills 117 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 119 5 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 6 Assignments 120 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 126 7 --- Adjourned 132 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, February 27, 2012, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come to order, if we 8 might. Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr 9 County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date 10 and time, Monday, February 27th, 2012, at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Let's stand. I'm honored to 13 have today as our special guest to lead our prayer and our 14 pledge today with us Chaplain Karen Reed from the Kerrville 15 V.A. Hospital. Karen, if you would just come up to the 16 lectern here in just a second. Karen, we have -- at the 17 Commissioners Court this past month, have been recognizing, 18 of course, the outstanding services from our V.A. Hospital 19 here in our community, as the employees and the services that 20 are provided to the 5,700 veterans in our area. 21 Commissioners, Chaplain Reed is one of those employees that 22 we are very blessed to have in our community and working with 23 our veterans, our men and women veterans, our families here. 24 I've known Karen back when my -- in my funeral home service 25 days, and also the days when my father was an Alzheimer's 2-27-12 6 1 patient out there that passed away at the V.A. But the care 2 that she provides for our veterans and our families is just 3 outstanding. And, Karen, we want to say thank you for your 4 service for our community. Thank you. (Applause.) If you 5 would please lead our prayer and our pledge today. 6 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. Be seated, 8 please. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 11 of the audience or public that wishes to be heard with 12 respect to any matter which is not a listed agenda item, this 13 your opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your 14 mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would 15 ask that you fill out a participation form. There should be 16 some located at the rear of the room. That's not essential. 17 If we get to an item that you wish to be heard on and you 18 haven't filled out a participation form, get my attention in 19 some manner and I'll give that you opportunity, but filling 20 out a participation form gives me notice that there is 21 someone in the public that wishes to be heard on that item. 22 But right now, if there's any member of the public or 23 audience wishing to be heard on any matter which is not a 24 listed agenda item, come forward and tell us what's on your 25 mind. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 2-27-12 7 1 Commissioner Overby? 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, I don't have anything 3 at this time. I will have a few comments when we get into 4 our committee reports at the end of the agenda today. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Commissioner Letz? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one thing. And I'm not 7 sure the rest of the Court knows, but most of public probably 8 doesn't, unless you've been following water issues, you 9 might. There was a very important Supreme Court case handed 10 out perhaps Thursday, Texas Supreme Court, that went a long, 11 long ways for property rights. It was a case against the 12 Edwards Aquifer Authority and Mr. McDaniels down in, I think, 13 Medina County, is probably where it came from. There was a 14 challenge of historical usage and the -- which is the way 15 Edwards Aquifer Authority divides up the water rights in 16 Edwards, and it was basically declared that that is not a 17 legal way do it, and if you own the surface, you own the 18 water. So, probably the strongest case in a long time to 19 reaffirm if you own the surface of property in Texas, you own 20 the water underneath it. It will have a lot of consequences 21 coming down the road, and also with the drought a little, and 22 the situation that were still in, it's going to have a lot of 23 impact on underground water districts and how they do things. 24 Very important case. That's it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 2-27-12 8 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I told y'all I think last 2 meeting, I think, this lady called me; she had high praise 3 for our Animal Control department. I have a letter from her, 4 and I'm going to pass that on to -- not Environmental Health, 5 but Animal Control for the work they did to make her feel 6 better about one of the animals that she had that had to be 7 put down, and so I want to commend them for continuing to do 8 good work. And -- and there's one other funny part of this 9 thing, too. It's not really in this letter, but I think 10 Janie got some -- she's had a whole bunch of animals adopted 11 lately. In one week's time, she had 32. That is -- that is 12 a lot to get adopted out, and one of which went to, I 13 believe, Dallas, and one to Waco. She met the guy in Waco 14 from Dallas. But somehow or another, she's a dogcatcher in 15 Waco too. Got away from the owner, and she had to track the 16 thing down in Waco, Texas. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And did. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And did. So, that's kind of 19 interesting. She's kind of a statewide animal control 20 person. (Laughter.) Anyway, other than that, bridge projects 21 on my end, of course, Hoot Owl Hollow is finished. Camp 22 Flaming Arrow bridge, all they're lacking on it is the 23 approaches on both sides and one guardrail, and it's done. 24 We really got it done quick, got it done, and I think this 25 week I should have the signed easement for the little bit of 2-27-12 9 1 land we needed to widen, improve the approach to that new 2 bridge, and should have that. They have finally, after two 3 years, agreed to sign, and the documents have been sent, and 4 we're waiting on the response. That's it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just want to 7 piggy-back on Commissioner Letz' issue of the -- of the water 8 thing. This is one of the biggest things we've heard in our 9 lifetime, I'm telling you. We all know this as the "right to 10 capture" which was adopted in 1904, and the Supreme Court of 11 Texas is coming around now, recognizing that. And it will 12 truly change everything that y'all have been working on, and 13 everything that we've all been working on all of our lives, 14 and that's -- that is -- that's really a big deal. Also, I 15 just wanted to -- I want to ask our insurance person to -- 16 I've been hearing some rumblings from the courthouse family, 17 and just wanted to ask our insurance person to look into and 18 determine -- make sure that we are offering all we can in the 19 insurance department for the eyes and dental. I don't know; 20 I haven't looked into it. I don't normally use those things, 21 but there -- it seems that maybe we're not -- there is -- the 22 options are not out there for our employees. And I'm not 23 talking about spending more money; I'm just saying, you know, 24 can we broaden this thing to make it more -- make it better 25 for our employees? That's all. 2-27-12 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got a moderate agenda 2 today. Hopefully we'll get through by lunchtime, but we 3 won't if we don't get started, so -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- let's get started. We have -- 6 Item Number 1 is a timed item for 9 o'clock; to consider, 7 discuss, and take appropriate action to accept the 2011 8 Partial Racial Profiling report for Kerr County Constable, 9 Precinct 1, and Kerr County Constable, Precinct 4. 10 Constables Lavender and Huffaker, I think, have filed their 11 reports with us pursuant to state law, asking that we accept 12 those. 13 MR. LAVENDER: Good morning. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any explanation, gentlemen? 15 MR. LAVENDER: That's an accounting of what we did 16 last year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: As they say in a nearby county 18 occasionally, it is what it is? 19 MR. LAVENDER: It is what it is. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval -- or 22 acceptance. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to accept 25 the reports. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify 2-27-12 11 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We have a 6 9:05 timed item; Item 2, to consider, discuss, take 7 appropriate action to accept the final alternate plat for 8 Lot 1 of the James Spicer Survey Number 1136, Abstract Number 9 1684, and located in Precinct 1. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I can say that I've been 13 profiled since I was in grade school, so I guess I'm guilty. 14 Mr. and Mrs. Morris own property R67723 out of the James 15 Spicer Survey Number 1136, Abstract Number 1684. The 16 referenced property consists of 12.33 acres. Mr. and 17 Mrs. Morris would like to divide the 12.33 acres and create 18 Lot 1, Block 1, consisting of 1.01 acres. If you look at the 19 plat of Spicer Ranch Number 3, the area the Morris property 20 is located at has an exception note that reads, "Tracts 21 marked 'exception' are not part of this subdivision of Spicer 22 Ranch Number 3." This being the case, this particular piece 23 of property is unplatted. Therefore, it falls under the 24 alternate plat process and does not require public hearing. 25 So, at this time, we ask the Court for their final approval 2-27-12 12 1 concerning the alternate plat for Morris Manor, Lot 1, 2 Abstract Number 1684, Precinct 1. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Community water system? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community water system. 5 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community water system. 7 MR. ODOM: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. ODOM: I think that's in the general notes 10 there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any issues? Move for 13 approval. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 17 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sorry, I -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You were voting affirmatively? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sorry about that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to our 9:10 timed item. 2-27-12 13 1 Item 3, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to go 2 out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, 3 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Mr. Odom? 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. May I refer back to the other 5 one? Under general notes, Number 6, the community water 6 system is provided by Aqua Texas, so it is covered. We're 7 asking the Court to give authorization for us to go out for 8 our annual bids on road base, cold mix, aggregate, emulsion 9 oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Once we put out the bids, 10 we will come back to the Court and open the bids on March 11 26th, 2012, at 9 a.m., and then the Commissioners Court can 12 follow up with also awarding the bids on March 26, 2012, at 13 9:15 a.m. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval. Question or discussion? Might have been a better 17 thing to do this 60 days ago, wouldn't it? 18 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We are where we are. 20 MR. ODOM: We are where we are. You know, we're 21 probably going 125 probably, but it is what it is. Normally 22 at this time of the year, it's -- it's low profile, and who 23 knows? But I -- you know, we figured 90 to 100, so we'll 24 wait and see. We'll wait and see. I think that's a good 25 figure; 105 on the average, probably, through the year. 2-27-12 14 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 8 Item 4, which is our 9:15 timed item; to consider, discuss, 9 and take appropriate action to accept the audit report of the 10 trust accounts audit for the District Clerk's Office. 11 Ms. Soldan? 12 MS. SOLDAN: Good morning. You should have the 13 reports in your packet. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. SOLDAN: If you have any questions, just let me 16 know. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Soldan, in your summary, 18 you say that the Auditor's office has some findings and 19 recommendations to assist the official. Is this their -- is 20 this their notification? 21 MS. SOLDAN: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or do you do it in another 23 way? 24 MS. SOLDAN: The report was their notification. 25 There's recommendations along with the findings. 2-27-12 15 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right, thank you. 2 MS. SOLDAN: You're welcome. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And the report does have attached to 4 it the District Clerk's actions with regard to the 5 recommendations? 6 MS. SOLDAN: That's right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In essence, I believe all of the 8 recommendations have been implemented by the District Clerk's 9 Office; is that correct? 10 MS. SOLDAN: That's correct, mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept the report. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item and acceptance of the report. 16 Further question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 17 raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 22 Item 5; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 23 publish Request for Qualifications seeking legal services to 24 assist the county in process for creation of a county-wide 25 emergency services district. Commissioner Baldwin? 2-27-12 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. The more I look 2 into the thing and the more people I visit with, they 3 recommend that we get outside counsel, someone with expertise 4 in this field. And, you know, I've arrived at the 5 understanding that it's an absolute must that we do this, and 6 I'd like to do it as soon as possible, because we have some 7 things coming up that we really need to have a serious 8 conversation about, and we're going to need the attorney to 9 do that. And I think -- there's Rob over here in the corner. 10 I think Rob agrees with that as well, do you not? 11 MR. HENNEKE: I do, particularly given that in 12 looking at the issue, I found that the Legislature, the last 13 legislative session, completely overhauled the statutes for 14 creation of an ESD for population -- counties of a population 15 of under 125,000; repealed the entire chapter of the Local 16 Government Code that had previously dealt with that, and made 17 a whole lot of changes into Chapter 775 of the Health and 18 Safety Code. So, in setting up, you know, a new taxing 19 entity, a new governmental -- quasi-governmental entity, and 20 especially with all the changes that have just happened, 21 there's several attorneys across the state that do this for a 22 living, and their assistance would be very valuable to the 23 County. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make sure I understand, and 25 if so, I want to make sure I've got a proper acknowledgment 2-27-12 17 1 on the record that -- that Commissioner Baldwin is 2 acknowledging that lawyers are necessary and helpful. 3 (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't say anything like 5 that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What are you asking for, 7 then, in your agenda item, Commissioner? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The County Attorney made me 9 put this on. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's an RFQ to kind of 12 get some -- get some information in here on -- on an 13 attorney. And I guess we need to also put this in the local 14 -- a local paper of some sort, hmm? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For professional services, do 16 we have to go through all that? Or can we -- 17 MR. HENNEKE: We don't, but -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this the best way to do it? 19 I mean -- 20 MR. HENNEKE: There's about -- you know, I 21 understand from talking with Commissioner Baldwin and talking 22 with the Auditor, you know, there's about four attorneys, 23 five that we've consulted that are statewide that set up 24 ESD's all over the state, and I think we've already had, you 25 know, at times over this discussion, you know, some 2-27-12 18 1 conversations with a couple of them. So, we don't need to 2 RFQ it, but we certainly can if we want to see who's 3 interested in working with us, and give them all a chance to 4 participate. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just wondering, if 6 there's four, couldn't you -- your office just contact them 7 and do it that way? Or -- I mean, just to save a little 8 money and time. Either way, doesn't make any difference to 9 me. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for it. I think we 11 ought to, you know, pull the trigger. We have to. I mean, 12 it's time to rock and roll. And -- but, you know, I just 13 wanted to dot all the I's and cross all the T's and make sure 14 we're doing the right thing. 15 MR. HENNEKE: And I don't know who else is out 16 there. I think, you know, Bickerstaff -- I don't believe 17 that one of their attorneys is necessarily known as one of 18 the five ESD attorneys, but I do believe that, you know, 19 Bickerstaff has some experience with ESD's. And to the 20 extent that there may be a firm or attorney out there, we 21 don't have to, Commissioner Letz, but I recommended it as a 22 fair way of giving anyone who's interested and with 23 experience a chance to make their proposal to Commissioners 24 Court. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If you've identified that there are 2-27-12 19 1 four to five really known gurus -- legal gurus in this field, 2 obviously, you're going to -- you're going to give specific 3 invitation to them to submit qualifications. And it occurs 4 to me that with that in mind, if we do the RFQ, we could put 5 it on a short response time, because I'm sure they're used to 6 responding, and maybe get the best of two worlds. Shorten 7 the time frame so we can get moving, number one, and number 8 two, to give folks an opportunity to respond to it 9 appropriately. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, sure. I agree with 11 that 100 percent. It's just, you know, I keep hearing that 12 in this -- in this particular issue, that there's lots of 13 alligators out there, and we want to -- we want a lawyer to 14 steer us from the alligators. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Keep you out of the swamp. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keep us out of the swamp. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster, do you have quite a 18 bit of support for this ESD thing in your area? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Yes, 20 absolutely. And you will before we're through. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, I'm just -- just 22 making sure we have support for this before we bail off and 23 start spending money. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could -- you know, our 25 next step would probably be to talk about what we want with 2-27-12 20 1 the lawyer to talk about is the -- not the resolution, the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Petition. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The petition. I'm sorry, 4 the petition. We can probably get that thing in here, like 5 -- and one of the requirements in the petition is 100 6 signatures of people that are real property owners in the 7 proposed district. According to my little friends, we might 8 be able to do that overnight. I'm not kidding. People are 9 ready to rock. They're ready to pull the trigger on this 10 thing. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's the only response 13 I have to your question. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll just say, Commissioner 16 Baldwin, I'm glad to see that this item is on our agenda. I 17 think it's one thing, again, as we talk about ESD's. I think 18 the other thing is having somebody like the -- one of the 19 attorneys that we're talking about, the folks that know about 20 all this information, I think it's critical for our community 21 and the county, and that's county-wide to look at and have 22 those discussions about the pros and cons of ESD services in 23 our community. I hear same folks out in our community of 24 wanting to support and look at this, but I think that we've 25 got to really look at and discuss the options for long-term 2-27-12 21 1 funding for our services in our community; not just over a 2 year, but for the next 10 years. And I think this is part of 3 this process that we really need to really explore, and I 4 just want to say I appreciate you having this on the agenda 5 item today. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's going to cost you 7 eventually, so I'm happy to do it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Pay me now or pay me later, right? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, probably don't really 12 need action, then, if we're just -- the County Attorney and I 13 are just going to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, he wanted -- the Judge 15 thought we ought to do this. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we can submit a -- a 17 short response time RFQ. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to make that 21 motion, please. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 25 indicated. Question or discussion? 2-27-12 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we go over the -- so it's 2 clear what the motion is that I seconded? (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: RFQ for a lawyer or law firm to 4 assist with the issues involved in forming an ESD. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a two-week period? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we can shorten it up 7 to two weeks. Yeah, okay. Further question or discussion? 8 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6; to consider, 15 discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Maintenance 16 Department to fill position which will be vacant via 17 resignation effective 9/30/2012. Request to fill vacancy now 18 in order to allow time for training. Mr. Bollier? 19 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. I have a man that's -- in 20 custodian that's going to retire September the 30th, and I do 21 have an open position in my budget, and I would like to fill 22 that with this for now, so to allow time to train this person 23 for maintenance -- I mean for custodian work. And then later 24 on, we'll have a -- we'll still have an empty position after 25 he leaves. 2-27-12 23 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what time frame do you see 2 as essential in order for any new person to be brought 3 totally up to speed? 4 MR. BOLLIER: In that position, probably about two 5 to three months. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, 60 to 90 days. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, July 1st okay? 9 MR. BOLLIER: July 1st is fine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That'll give you 90 days, sure. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that going to -- that's 12 enough time for the person that's going to retire -- when is 13 that date? 14 MR. BOLLIER: September 30th. He'll be gone on 15 September the 30th. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That gives him 90 days. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to authorize 18 Maintenance to hire -- I guess fill your current vacancy 19 effective July 1st to allow for training related to the 20 employee that's going to retire September 30th. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You clarified my answer -- or 23 my question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a second? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 2-27-12 24 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 2 second. Any further question or discussion on it? All in 3 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, 8 Number 7; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 9 ban space heaters in all Kerr County facilities. 10 Mr. Bollier? 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. It seems that they're 12 starting to show back up. But I would like to have -- I 13 would like to ban all space heaters, but I know that's going 14 to be a problem; there's going to be a big fight along the 15 line here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why we're here today, isn't 17 it? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. BOLLIER: But there seems to be a problem, 21 especially with the big brown ones, the old ones. There's 22 some big brown space heaters, and they're leaving them on in 23 several different places, and they draw a lot of amps. And 24 what people don't understand is, they will plug a surge 25 protector in there where you can plug, like, six different 2-27-12 25 1 items into that, but what people don't understand is each 2 plug -- if you just have an individual plug, it only serves 3 about 20 amps. So, if you put one of these big brown space 4 heaters on there, that big brown space heater takes anywhere 5 from 10 to 13 amps. So, to start with, you're either 6 plugging too much in there, we have breakers being thrown, or 7 else you're going to burn the wire and you're going to start 8 a fire. So, I don't know which way the Court wants to go 9 with this. I don't know if you want to go and allow them to 10 have space heaters with a certain amount of amperage, a 11 certain amount of that, or just ban them all. Except with 12 two -- I have two people -- two places that I would like to 13 leave those space heaters for now. One of them is the Ingram 14 annex, because they do not have any heat in the back. And 15 the second spot is down in the lower level for Ms. Kathy 16 Banik, because down there where she's at, that's probably one 17 of the coldest spots in the courthouse. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In Kerr County? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's pretty cold down 20 there, so that's where I'm at. 21 MR. BOLLIER: And we -- a few years ago, we burned 22 up a -- well, I did not. A certain -- a CPU was burned up 23 because of a space heater. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. BOLLIER: And we were lucky there on that 2-27-12 26 1 incident. And I just -- I just think these space heaters are 2 just not safe. I don't care what you buy; they're not safe, 3 okay? If they're not done right, if they're not turning them 4 off and on when they should be off during -- when they're not 5 there, they're just not good. So, I'll leave it up to you 6 guys. You're looking at me with that funny look, 7 Commissioner 1. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's easy to do. What is 9 a space heater? 10 MR. BOLLIER: It's a floor heater. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: A little electrical -- 13 MR. BOLLIER: Just a little -- you can get them; 14 they come in all shapes and sizes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then don't you have some 16 that are -- that you don't consider dangerous? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, there is. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have some? 19 MR. BOLLIER: I do not. I didn't think that the 20 Maintenance Department -- I didn't know the Maintenance 21 Department was supposed to supply those, if that's what 22 you're asking. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't either. That was 24 my next question. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 2-27-12 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, clearly, we can't have 2 a certain amperage. I mean, they have to be -- you know, 3 over -- I don't know what the little ones run, but, you know, 4 anything over, like, 5 amps, I'd say, and that may knock them 5 all out; I don't know. But you can't have anything, 6 certainly, drawing a lot of amperage that's going to cause a 7 risk of fire. Just can't do that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest that 5 amps just 9 effectively eliminates them all. Any of them that's going to 10 provide any degree of warmth is going to draw more than 5 11 amps. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, this is a -- you 13 know, an older building. We don't have light plugs 14 everywhere. So, I mean most of the plugs -- or a lot of them 15 probably do have, you know, strips on them that you can plug 16 in multiple devices. I just think we have to look out for -- 17 safety is number one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- it's purely a safety issue 19 with me. Yeah, you've got a secondary issue of maybe 20 creating too much warmth and -- and doing in some of this 21 computer equipment. Frequently, those things are controlled 22 by thermostats, and they're not turned on and off every day. 23 They're set on a given setting, and if it's not running at 24 the end of the day, people don't always think about reaching 25 down and turning it off. And, of course, then later on when 2-27-12 28 1 the building's unoccupied, why, it kicks back on. And I'd 2 just as soon not have this building catch fire. So, I'm -- 3 my opinion is to go with his request; get rid of all of them, 4 with the exception those two areas where they're needed, 5 essentially, because we -- we just can't get Kathy enough 6 warmth. 7 MR. BOLLIER: And may I say, we'll -- you know, 8 we'll leave the -- leave it at the Ingram annex until we get 9 them some heat, and then once we get some heat in there -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Then it goes away. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Then it goes away. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There's not any way we can get her 13 more heat off of our current system without major 14 modifications to the building, I don't think. 15 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of 17 his -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- adopting his 20 recommendation. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to ban all 22 of them, with the two exceptions that the Maintenance 23 Director has indicated. Further question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I thought we did 25 this a couple years ago. 2-27-12 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We thought we did too. 2 MR. BOLLIER: I talked to Ms. Kathy Banik, and she 3 looked over her records, and there was -- there was something 4 in there where y'all said y'all would come back to it, and we 5 never did. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 7 MR. TROLINGER: I believe the previous court order, 8 Tim, was to be able to confiscate. And, unfortunately, 9 that's not been -- that's not been effective enough, and we 10 need a little bit stronger. What we're finding is, as we 11 make our rounds, we've found a couple of space heaters 12 plugged into these plastic power strips. They're great. 13 They've got a little circuit breaker on them, sometimes. And 14 I was in an airplane Saturday, and we had an electrical fire, 15 and the circuit breaker popped and we did all the fans and 16 landed just fine. But these circuit breakers that are in 17 these cheap power strips just don't do the job. I've seen 18 melted power strips, and it's just a matter of time, with the 19 number of them that we have, that there'll be a fire that 20 flames up and causes damage. The main concern with the 21 computers is just adding that heat, you know, where the 22 computer's at. That's my main concern with I.T. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, John. 2-27-12 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 2 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. okay. Tim, 7 you're still up. Number 8; consider, discuss, take 8 appropriate action to lower rates for use of the outdoor 9 arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 10 MR. BOLLIER: The current rate right now to the 11 outdoor arena is $300, and I would like to see that lowered 12 to $150, half of what it is, just to see if we can get people 13 to start using it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I believe that, you know, we -- that 16 new arena's been sitting there -- I think we've used it one 17 time for KerrFest, and I -- you know, I just -- we have a 18 nice facility there, and I'd like to see it start being used. 19 So, I think the only way is to lower -- lower the rates a 20 little bit. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that rate is comparable to some 22 of the outdoor arena facilities in this area that you've 23 seen? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2-27-12 31 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the rate on the indoor 3 arena right now? 4 MR. BOLLIER: The indoor arena is 500. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you think we should go up on 6 that? 7 MR. BOLLIER: No, I do not. I think we need to 8 leave it alone, right where it's at, because I do believe 9 other people that have outdoor arenas -- I mean indoor arenas 10 are less than we are. And the only problem that I can see 11 right now with the -- with people -- with the outdoor 12 arena -- with the outdoor arena is I don't know if -- I don't 13 know if that $150 is going to be enough, because we are going 14 to have to bring in port-a-potties out there, or that's what 15 I'm seeing. Unless we want to -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm going to say to you that 17 the people that rent that thing can pay for those if they're 18 going to have a weekend event. 19 MR. BOLLIER: That's the only problem I see. 20 Because that's a long ways to have to walk all the way up 21 to -- to the indoor arena. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is, but a lot of those 23 people have self-contained R.V.'s. They come into town, and 24 they have a place to go. If -- I believe that for people -- 25 if we're going to let them have it for a deal, I think they 2-27-12 32 1 can rent a couple port-a-potties for a two-day event and be 2 okay. I move approval of $150 a day on the outdoor arena 3 being the rental rate. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. Further question or discussion on the matter? 7 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item 12 9; to consider -- 13 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- discuss, take appropriate action 15 regarding contract with Peter Lewis for renovation of the 16 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I put this back on the 18 agenda because we need to -- if we're going to continue to 19 move forward with this project, we're going to have to start 20 making some decisions and start having some plans to work off 21 of, go out for bid. And I met with Peter early this morning 22 and got his latest proposal. I've given each one of you a 23 copy of it. And I guess we need to get him up here, let him 24 discuss what it means, so that we can see where we're headed. 25 MR. LEWIS: Morning, Judge, Commissioners. 2-27-12 33 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Morning. 2 MR. LEWIS: What I have done -- and Commissioner 3 Oehler and I did meet this morning, but over the last several 4 weeks, I have been soliciting proposals from my -- the 5 consulting team that I have typically worked with, which 6 involves a civil engineer, structural engineer, mechanical/ 7 electrical engineer. We've had some conversations, 8 obviously, with some of the Commissioners here about the 9 scope of the project. This proposal is based on a schematic 10 that Commissioner Oehler -- and I just have a small exhibit, 11 but that represents in two phases a nominally 72,000 square 12 foot addition to the west of the existing indoor arena, 13 pressing into that. We have solicited the services of an 14 environmental engineer who has been up to look at the 15 existing buildings that will be demolished, and he did that a 16 week ago Friday. We expect to have his report -- he has to 17 send his findings off, but that would clear the way for 18 demolition of the existing hog pens. 19 The scope of the project for new construction, 20 again, is in two phases. The first phase would be the 21 construction of a show barn -- a show barn. And the actual 22 dimensions are -- yield a 48,000 square foot footprint. We 23 show 50,000, and that was sort of a talking point, and the 24 exhibit that you have previously seen describes the limits. 25 It extends further to the west of the existing hog barn, so 2-27-12 34 1 it would be behind the existing exhibit hall. The exhibit 2 hall would remain in service. There would be some select 3 demolition that would affect the connection of those 4 buildings, as well as the indoor arena. And so, given those 5 circumstances -- and the proposal we put together is in two 6 phases. The first phase is for show barn, and you've got 7 that proposal in front of you. I don't know that I need to 8 read through all the details, but we have discerned that the 9 new construction would be in compliance with the 2006 10 International Code Series, as well as the 2006 National 11 Electrical Code. 12 Because there has been some discussion about the 13 services that the City of Kerrville would provide during the 14 ETJ, we have had conversations regarding fire protection with 15 the Fire Marshal's office -- City of Kerrville's Fire 16 Marshal's office, as well as Development Services staff. At 17 present, there is -- I know there will be some conversations 18 and ongoing dialogue between the City and the County 19 regarding the nature of requirements for site development, 20 and in this proposal, we have included as part of our scope 21 to work as a liaison between the City and the County with the 22 development of a development site plan which would address 23 on-site utilities, fire protection. There has been some 24 conversation about impact on off-site utilities as well, but 25 we are not in a position now to really discern the magnitude 2-27-12 35 1 of that until we have at least a little more development in 2 the schematic design of the floor plan of this. 3 This is -- this would be a large and pre-engineered 4 metal building with a clear span of 160 feet in the center, 5 and 40 feet on either side, 300 feet deep. It would butt up 6 next to the indoor arena, so we will be taking up that space 7 that is currently outdoor service yard. Would be -- in the 8 final analysis, would also be removing, in Phase 2, the 9 exhibit hall -- current exhibit hall. Subject to funding, of 10 course, but the current exhibit hall, and creating a new 11 concession/restroom area and some offices on the second 12 floor. I guess the -- in the second phase, with a two-story 13 addition, there would be an elevator for access to that, and 14 so not only would we comply with the International Code 15 Series, but also with the Texas Accessibility Standards and 16 Americans With Disabilities Act. The scope of our work would 17 be conceptual design/development of the entire two-phase 18 project, and then execution in Phase 1 of the construction 19 documents for bidding and general construction of the show 20 barn. And, again, we -- as I said, we would act as liaison 21 in that process. Our responsibility would cover all 22 disciplines. 23 I have given a budget for both professional 24 services, as well as an estimate of some of the extraneous 25 services, among those being an environmental survey report 2-27-12 36 1 which is already in process, geotechnical engineer for the 2 design of the foundation and pavement design, materials 3 testing during construction, and other miscellaneous 4 expenses. We would act as the County's agent in the bidding 5 process and solicit competitive bids, would assist 6 Commissioners in evaluating those bids, and then would be 7 your agent as well during construction to observe the ongoing 8 construction of Phase 1. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: With respect to the contingencies 10 for funding, how would -- how would your fee for services 11 interplay with that? Bearing in mind that there will have to 12 be some funding mechanisms created and approved, and funds 13 secured. 14 MR. LEWIS: Well, in terms of the overall scope of 15 both Phase 1 and Phase 2, we would defer any work on the 16 second phase subject to funding that. This was anticipating 17 securing funding for Phase 1. We currently have been working 18 on -- generally, on a retainer to help develop some of the 19 concepts here, and we could do that same thing to advance the 20 project if that were the Court's will. And then look at that 21 in terms of the overall -- our overall project budget. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, understanding that -- 23 that for some of this, there would be deferral until funding 24 is secured. 25 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 2-27-12 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions for 2 Mr. Lewis? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my questions are a 4 little bit -- I mean, when I look at this, I see the price 5 tag increasing. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And last meeting, we talked 8 about possibly bidding this two ways. Is that still on the 9 table, to bid it as a construction manager at-risk and this 10 way? Or is it -- are we talking about just doing the 11 conventional mechanism? The question is really to the Court, 12 I mean, more -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would prefer to do it -- to 14 look at both -- both sides of it, see which one is the most 15 advantageous as far as the cost. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, the bid documents can be 17 prepared to have it bid -- 18 MR. LEWIS: That's correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- any way that's acceptable under 20 the law. 21 MR. LEWIS: That is correct. The construction 22 manager at-risk process generally envisions having that 23 entity on board during the design phase, whereas the 24 design-bid-build approach, we would go out ahead of them and 25 prepare all the documents, and then put it out for bid. So, 2-27-12 38 1 C.M. at-risk brings the builder -- brings the entity on as 2 part of the design team, and one of the advantages to it is 3 to get a better understanding of what the cost will be, and 4 they also become a member of the team and are -- you know, 5 they take ownership of the project budget, whereas architects 6 are notoriously bad estimators. And so we -- when we prepare 7 a set of documents and we put them out to bid, sometimes -- 8 not -- not "we" necessarily, but as a -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Others. 10 MR. LEWIS: Others. No. But we don't like 11 surprises, and so the C.M. at-risk process helps mitigate or 12 eliminate the possibility of surprises. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But, by the same token, if you go on 14 a pure bid basis for all of the -- all of the design 15 documents and the specs and so forth are worked up in advance 16 of the bidding process, you get true apples-to-apples -- 17 MR. LEWIS: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- responses to your request for 19 bids, and you can really, I think, better evaluate, because 20 they're all bidding on exactly the same thing, as opposed to 21 maybe having different prices, but a little different 22 projects, too. 23 MR. LEWIS: Well, let me -- and the C.M. at-risk 24 is -- what it does for many institutional owners, it removes 25 the comfort of very hard competitive bids. You have to -- it 2-27-12 39 1 has to be a relationship of trust. How the Court would 2 retain the services of a C.M. -- construction manager would 3 be through a request for qualifications statement, and 4 possibly -- I would presume that they could quote a fee, or 5 is that -- is that permissible? 6 MR. HENNEKE: The -- 7 MR. LEWIS: A fee as a percentage of whatever 8 number, and so you'd have some competitive edge in that 9 respect. And that is -- when we've done C.M. at-risk for 10 private owners, we have solicited what their fee percentage 11 would be. Not a -- not an absolute number. There's some 12 incentive to -- with a percentage fee, we would like to 13 believe, to keep the cost of the project down, and there are 14 a lot of variations on that where you can -- there can be a 15 savings back to an owner if you don't hit the guaranteed 16 maximum number. 17 MR. HENNEKE: I think you can do it both ways. 18 MR. LEWIS: And with a -- if I may, Judge, with the 19 design-bid-build approach, what you find is, you find a very 20 aggressive marketplace. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Plus -- 22 MR. LEWIS: And you have a sense of comfort that 23 that is, in fact, what you're getting, is a very competitive 24 bid. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Much like our -- our Sheriff's annex 2-27-12 40 1 building that we did, there's a distinct possibility that we 2 may want to use our -- our own in-house folks at Road and 3 Bridge to do some of the site work preparation, demolition, 4 site work and so forth. And, you know, I think they did an 5 extraordinarily good job on the -- on the annex project, and 6 saved the county a considerable amount of money doing that. 7 And if you go with a construction manager at-risk, you 8 probably would have difficulty working that into that 9 process, I would think. 10 MR. LEWIS: The -- I think that that is something 11 that could just be part of the negotiation. And people who 12 do this for a living are going to have encountered a number 13 of variations and approaches, and so it wouldn't be a foreign 14 thought to them. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First question, I guess, time 16 period. How long would it take you to come up with the 17 drawings required to bid this? 18 MR. LEWIS: I would think that this is a 19 two-month -- two- to three-month project. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On your side before you put it 21 out for bid? 22 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're looking at 24 essentially -- 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: End of May. 2-27-12 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- starting construction 2 mid-summer. 3 MR. LEWIS: Yes. And a three- to four-week bid 4 process if it is a design-bid-build. If you have a 5 construction manager on board, you have to consider some time 6 to issue an RFQ to bring them on board at the beginning of 7 the process. But by the time the drawings are done, the 8 number is pretty well understood. Construction costs are 9 pretty well understood. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're at the crossroad. 11 We're either going to do this or we're going to go under 12 construction manager at-risk. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just trying to make sure 14 we're -- we have, you know, a pretty tight schedule already. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it probably -- it won't -- 17 that timeline really doesn't differ one way or the other. 18 MR. LEWIS: Not dramatically. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Substantially. 20 MR. LEWIS: No. You have a three -- you know, and 21 I would say you put this out for three weeks in a 22 design-bid-build. Then you've got a week of evaluating or 23 so, and then you've -- once you -- the Court has made a 24 decision, then the -- the construction contract is negotiated 25 with the County Attorney, and -- you know, so there's some -- 2-27-12 42 1 there's some time in there that is very real before a 2 contractor would mobilize on-site. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- from your 4 experience, is there one way that's likely to work better for 5 a project like this? 6 MR. LEWIS: I think that the nature of this is a 7 simple enough project, the design-bid-build would work well. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And have you looked at the -- 9 done any estimates on it since, I guess, Commissioner Oehler 10 and I met with you a couple weeks ago on cost? 11 MR. LEWIS: Just what we discussed at that meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, not -- you haven't looked 13 beyond that? 14 MR. LEWIS: No, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I don't recall the fire 16 suppression and that discussion at that meeting, so that's an 17 additional -- 18 MR. LEWIS: I think I had that number generally in 19 there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was probably in there, 21 probably? Okay. So, the number's basically where it was 22 last time -- 23 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we talked? Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think at this juncture, we may 2-27-12 43 1 have a serious time issue about this year. I -- I sure don't 2 want to get the stock show people in a bind where they're 3 kind of hung on a hook out there come next January, and I'm 4 sure they don't want to be either. I just have serious 5 doubts whether we can get there and have them ready by 6 January. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- do we have to -- we -- 8 or let me rephrase. We do not have to get a certificate of 9 occupancy by the city, do we? 10 MR. LEWIS: I can't answer -- I don't know that for 11 a fact. I mean, because they extend certain public services, 12 they have purview over those, and which may include a 13 certificate of occupancy. You think not? 14 MR. HENNEKE: I don't know about that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's an important 16 question. And the reason is -- 17 MR. LEWIS: It's something I can find out easily. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The stock show can use the 19 facility without it being finished. For a -- I mean, if you 20 have a slab and a barn, essentially, and electricity, I mean, 21 I don't know that we have to have all the details finished in 22 there, worst case scenario. Obviously, it's better to get it 23 done. But I think that, you know, it's -- the City can block 24 using a facility. I think it's something we have to know, 25 because that can be a process. It's not always real easy 2-27-12 44 1 with the city, from just talking with other -- I mean, they 2 have their requirements, and I know that they are -- I'm not, 3 you know, negative about it. They're very, very picky, which 4 they're supposed to be. 5 MR. HENNEKE: You're not making a subdivision, so 6 the subdivision rules within the ETJ don't come into play. 7 It's not within the city limits, so, you know, the building 8 codes and regulations and ordinances don't come into play. 9 You know, really what you're talking about is the contractual 10 relationships between the County and the City insofar as 11 negotiating those things. 12 MR. LEWIS: And understand, when you say the 13 building codes don't come into play, they don't -- they don't 14 have authority to enforce them. The State has adopted the 15 International Building Code Series, so all of you know we 16 would certainly comply with that. 17 MR. HENNEKE: Well, right. But as far as -- 18 MR. LEWIS: They don't do inspections. 19 MR. HENNEKE: -- certificate of -- 20 MR. LEWIS: Occupancy. 21 MR. HENNEKE: Yeah. Only the services that they 22 extend would they have any kind of authority or purview over, 23 which would be water and wastewater and emergency fire 24 protection. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could you get the drawings done 2-27-12 45 1 quicker? 2 MR. LEWIS: Yes. Yes, I could. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 4 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 6 MR. LEWIS: I'm always going to say a 7 conservative -- when ask you a time, I'm always going to be 8 conservative. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Two or three months is a 10 conservative -- 11 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 13 MR. LEWIS: You know, we're just getting -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about 30 days? That 15 would be about right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you can get him to 17 sign onto that. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Again, the timeline, if 19 everything fell into place like it did, the construction of 20 the show barn, Commissioner Oehler, what you're saying is 21 five to six months to build; is that correct? 180 days? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Once you get the building 23 on-site, it doesn't take that long. 24 MR. LEWIS: It's the lead time. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whoever gets the bid is going 2-27-12 46 1 to order the building. That's what -- it takes, from what I 2 was told, 10 weeks. 3 MR. LEWIS: That's the long lead item in this first 4 phase. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But during that 10-week period, 6 you can do the site work. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Site work and your demolition. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not -- not losing any 10 time. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, no, you're not losing any 12 time. 13 MR. LEWIS: I think we can commit to delivering 14 this in a six- to eight-week period. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's more like it. You're 16 getting better. 17 MR. LEWIS: Four to -- no. And, again, the issues 18 that are uncertain, and I think demand a dialogue with the 19 City, have to do with the utility services; fire protection. 20 And those can happen -- and, again, I -- you know, I do work 21 for the City; I have a good relationship with Development 22 Services staff, and I believe I could be a -- a good advocate 23 for this project. I think the project's important to the 24 community. 25 MR. HENNEKE: And just to not leave that 2-27-12 47 1 unanswered, I wouldn't concede that there is any jurisdiction 2 or purview that the City has over the County, but I would 3 acknowledge that there are certain contractual relationships 4 the County has with the City; for example, the fire and EMS 5 interlocal agreement, and also the service of the exhibition 6 center by, you know, water and utilities. And since that's a 7 contractual relationship, that is, I think, what Mr. Lewis is 8 talking about. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those are the areas where 10 there's -- 11 MR. LEWIS: Absolutely. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- where there's interplay, and -- 13 and consideration that has to be given. 14 MR. LEWIS: They do no building inspections, no -- 15 nothing. You won't see Jeff Finley out there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would there -- is there a -- a 17 time benefit for us to make a decision today to not go 18 construction manager at-risk and just go straight bid 19 process? 20 MR. LEWIS: Well, the -- again, a C.M. at-risk, one 21 of the values of it is having them participate in the design 22 on a complicated building. Whatever the reason for the 23 complication, that approach makes a lot of sense, I think, 24 and so it would build in an RFQ process to solicit proposals. 25 I think what we would find in Kerr County is that the C.M. 2-27-12 48 1 at-risk proposals would come from the general contractors who 2 would also bid the project, and there is a fee associated 3 with C.M. at-risk, which may -- which is also part of that 4 for an end design process. So, the expedient approach, I 5 submit, will be a design-bid-build approach for this project. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem going 7 with that approach. I mean, it doesn't make that much 8 difference. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where we are at this 10 time. If we want to move it forward, we're going to have to 11 move it forward; otherwise, we'll just stall and put stock 12 show folks and a lot of other folks in a jam. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. When 14 you talk about fire suppression, you're talking about fire 15 hydrants? 16 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir, and a sprinkler system in the 17 building. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a sprinkler system in 19 the building. 20 MR. LEWIS: There would be a fire line extended to 21 the site. The water service from Highway 27 has sufficient 22 capacity to provide both domestic and fire protection to this 23 new building. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that, like, an 8-inch 25 line? Or -- 2-27-12 49 1 MR. LEWIS: I don't -- I think it is. It's an 8, 2 or it may be a 12-inch, but it has the capacity. And then 3 that fire line would either be a dead end with fire -- a fire 4 hydrant or two; the preliminary says two fire hydrants. It 5 may involve a loop around the entire show barn and indoor 6 arena. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think it would be in 8 our best interests to do that anyway, regardless of what the 9 City thinks or says. 10 MR. LEWIS: I -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Safety. 12 MR. LEWIS: Yes, I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In your communications with the 14 City, it'd be interesting to know the timeline for the fire 15 suppression part. To me, the fire suppression is more 16 critical in Phase 2. We're talking about an actual building 17 that's going to have people in it, as opposed to a barn where 18 there's not a whole lot to even burn, other than -- I mean, 19 especially for most of the uses that we have out there. 20 MR. LEWIS: Well, they -- okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway -- so -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't really care if it 23 makes sense or not. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if there is some latitude 25 with the City -- when you're talking with the City, that, you 2-27-12 50 1 know, because of timelines, it may not all happen right now. 2 We have no problem possibly doing it, but if it all had to be 3 -- you know, be done, that could be done in phases as well. 4 MR. LEWIS: Well, the -- the codes dictate that the 5 show barn, because of its type of occupancy and size, 6 requires that fire sprinkler system in it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MR. LEWIS: And so you're bringing the fire line 9 onto the site. And, again, the authority that they have to 10 allow you to occupy the building or not is -- is subject to a 11 dialogue. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. LEWIS: There is a process that the City has, 14 and it's a -- the development site plan where all of the 15 agencies within the city participate; engineering, public 16 works, building and fire, and sit down and assess a project. 17 There is a preliminary meeting where a potential building 18 owner, or in this case the County, would have representatives 19 there. And I would be there as your agent, and would 20 highlight all the issues that could impact or impede the 21 construction of the building later on. And the process 22 has -- it's several years old now. It's a good process. It 23 was generally in response to situations where someone wanted 24 to build a building in Kerrville, and came in for a building 25 permit, found out that they didn't have utility capacity, for 2-27-12 51 1 instance. And so this -- this anticipates any of those kind 2 of obstructions. It's a good process, and it is a dialogue. 3 MR. HENNEKE: But it's not something -- just to, I 4 guess, belabor the point, it's not something that we're 5 subject to, and -- and certainly not -- we need to have those 6 discussions, but I guess what we're talking about is really 7 analogous to the process that the City has for building and 8 construction within the city limits. I mean, we need to be 9 having those discussions, but we wouldn't be, as I understand 10 it, submitting ourselves through that process, because it's 11 -- it's not applicable to our situation. 12 MR. LEWIS: The issues that you have, the 13 contractual relationship with the City; the water, 14 wastewater, fire department. 15 MR. HENNEKE: We haven't had any contact or 16 communication from the City to what extent, if any, there are 17 any issues that do exist or have arisen or anything. If 18 they, you know, necessarily want to -- 19 MR. LEWIS: We have had some preliminary 20 conversations with staff and with the City Manager's office, 21 and have a sense -- and, again, it is a good process. I 22 think it behooves the County to sit down and -- sit down at a 23 table and talk about the issues, and then determine -- which 24 really do impact this project, which the -- where the City 25 has purview and where they don't. 2-27-12 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think we need to move 2 forward with the contract. To me, it's reasonable. I think 3 we need to set up that meeting as soon as possible. I think 4 the County Attorney needs to be present at that meeting. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll just add, just anytime 6 in the past when we've had future projects that have looked 7 into coming into our area, that process is what's been set 8 up, where we sit down and look at the -- look at the pros and 9 cons, infrastructure, everything there, so that everybody has 10 a timeline on moving forward. So, I understand the -- 11 MR. LEWIS: And the City has -- there are 12 streamlined versions of that process, so it is not an 13 absolute that you go from Point A to Point D or E in every 14 single project. So, again, what I'd like to do is sit down 15 with you, Rob, and talk about what my understanding is, and 16 an approach to take to sitting down with the City. 17 MR. HENNEKE: Glad to. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That works for me. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of us -- and one of us will 20 attend. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. LEWIS: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That'll work. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or both. 2-27-12 53 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's part of the reason why 2 city of Kerrville doesn't get much business in here. They're 3 going to start getting some now. Maybe -- you know, some of 4 this stuff is foolish, and -- and especially when it comes to 5 dealing with the county, and we're outside the city limits. 6 I'm going to go with the County Attorney's recommendation on 7 what he thinks our authority is and what it isn't, but I do 8 think we need to move forward if we're going to do it. If 9 not, we need to pull back. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Those meetings can be held 11 soon? 12 MR. LEWIS: Yes. The -- the group convenes every 13 Wednesday, on-call, if there's a project to be considered. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Meet Wednesday? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wednesday's fine with me. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, as long as we comply 17 with this federal set of rules -- what did you call it? 18 MR. LEWIS: They're -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 2000 -- 20 MR. LEWIS: Yeah, the International Building Code 21 Series. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: International Building Code. 23 MR. LEWIS: The State has adopted them, and most 24 cities in the state of Texas have as well. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That should cover the whole 2-27-12 54 1 thing. 2 MR. LEWIS: And A.D.A. and Texas Accessibility -- 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All those guidelines. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And sit down with -- sit 5 down with the City as, you know, neighbors -- our good 6 neighbors that are in this business that can tell us -- maybe 7 keep -- you know, advise us and help us keep things safe. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And proper. But they're 10 certainly not going to tell us what to do with our property. 11 I can say that. From this Commissioner's point of view, 12 anyway. You know, I've said it; it's on the table. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I do agree with you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh my gosh. There's one. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to reconsider, 16 Commissioner, since he agreed with you? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rob, have you seen the draft? 19 This draft? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you want to have him 22 review it? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or make -- if you want 24 to approve it subject to his review, either way. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll move approval, subject 2-27-12 55 1 to the County Attorney's review and approval of the contract 2 with Peter Lewis for professional services for the Hill 3 Country Youth Exhibition show barn and exhibit hall. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 6 Further question or discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's fine. Leave it at 8 that. I was just going to say -- I mean, it seems this is 9 very simple and straightforward, which is good. I question 10 whether the County Attorney's going to want more of a 11 contract form or not. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me mention -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get there. 14 MR. LEWIS: I think we have a precedent, say, with 15 the Sheriff's annex for doing a public building, and we -- 16 and any attachments, and I don't know if we -- 17 MR. HENNEKE: We worked that out before. We can 18 get together. 19 MR. LEWIS: We can reflect that, look and see and 20 make sure those terms are applicable, and I think they are. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I note on here that the fees exclude 22 off-site utilities. That's beyond the building or beyond the 23 property? 24 MR. LEWIS: Off-site would be beyond the property. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2-27-12 56 1 MR. LEWIS: If -- if it is determined that capacity 2 for the wastewater services, for instance -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I understand there's some 4 potential issues there. 5 MR. LEWIS: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. LEWIS: And they -- I have a verbal from my 8 civil engineer as to what those costs might be, but they 9 range, depending on the scope, of course, whether it's 10 several hundred feet of improvement or -- or greater or less. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 12 comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 13 right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 18 MR. LEWIS: Thank you, gentlemen. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good work. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- excuse me, Item 10; to -- oops, 22 let's not go to Item 10. We're about to bypass a 10 o'clock 23 timed item here. Let's go to Item 11; to a presentation by 24 Mr. Craig Taylor regarding the EUL -- and I'm sure he'll tell 25 us exactly what "EUL" means -- of the V.A. housing project. 2-27-12 57 1 Mr. Taylor? If you'll come forward and tell us where you're 2 from and who you represent, and tell us all about this. 3 MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Judge Tinley, 4 Commissioners. I'm Craig Taylor. I'm the president of an 5 organization called Communities for Veterans, which is based 6 in Sarasota, Florida. I operate out of Atlanta, Georgia, and 7 we have projects in eight states in the United States. Our 8 purpose -- our sole purpose is to provide needed housing for 9 -- among -- not, let's say, in every campus, but among these 10 populations of homeless veterans, disabled veterans, what we 11 call at-risk veterans, veterans who are living with a 12 relative or doubled up in some way or that sort of thing, and 13 are at risk of becoming homeless. And then senior veterans, 14 either in an independent living or an assisted living 15 capacity. 16 We responded to a request for proposals from the 17 Department of Veterans Affairs back at the end of the summer, 18 early fall, to develop housing on a number of V.A. campuses 19 around the country. They had 34 of these proposals. I'm not 20 sure, but I think 17 were actually awarded prior to the end 21 of the year. It was a very rushed thing, because in the 22 political impasses in Congress, the ability of the Veterans 23 Administration to enter into these -- "EUL" stands for 24 enhanced use leases. The authority of the V.A. to enter into 25 those leases expired December 31st of 2011, and so they had 2-27-12 58 1 been working on this process for a number of years, and had 2 actually entered into some of these enhanced use leases with 3 other developers. But with the sunset of the authority, they 4 tried to get as many of the projects approved prior to the 5 end of the year as they could. And we were one of them, as I 6 said, plus seven other campuses as well around the U.S. 7 So, we entered into the lease actually December 8 27th, 2011, and the purpose of the lease was to develop 9 housing for senior -- either independent or assisted living 10 veterans, and disabled veterans. And so we began to move 11 forward with that process. It's no secret that this has 12 turned into, surprisingly to me, a very controversial 13 project, and it's been in the papers. I'm not telling you 14 guys anything you don't know. I met before the City Council 15 and asked for their support for this project, and we got a 16 unanimous denial. The reason I was in front of the City 17 Council -- and this is germane to what I wanted to bring to 18 you today -- is that the financing of all of this is private 19 sector financing. What the V.A. is providing in this case is 20 a 5-acre tract of land. What it provides in other cases may 21 be vacant buildings, but the concept is for an outside party 22 to come in and enhance the use of VA-owned assets for a 23 purpose that is, I would say, synergistic with the Veterans 24 Administration's overall goals of providing services to 25 veterans. 2-27-12 59 1 And what the V.A. has said is primarily, we're a 2 hospital. We're here to provide medical services. But the 3 Secretary of the V.A., Eric Shinseki, and President Bush and 4 President Obama have said we want to eliminate this problem 5 of homeless and at-risk veterans being out there. And now 6 with the aging of the population, with many of our senior 7 veterans falling into those situations where they're 8 ill-housed, we want to solve that problem as well. And one 9 of the three prongs of the stool to do that would be to 10 provide housing on V.A. medical center campuses. So, the 11 V.A. has said that's all fine and well, but we need the 12 private sector to do that, and so we'll lease our land or 13 buildings to the private sector. They have to provide the 14 financing and the muscle, if you will, to do it privately. 15 There's not many programs any more that can do that 16 and reach down though the affordability levels for the 17 individual veterans to make it work, and one of those 18 programs, for better or worse, is a Reagan administration 19 program called the Low Income Housing Tax Credit. The idea 20 behind President Reagan's program was not to have these 21 programs under H.U.D., which, if you may -- may or may not 22 remember, President Reagan was not the greatest fan of 23 H.U.D., but to put the programs under the private sector and 24 the Treasury Department by issuing tax credits. So, rather 25 than taxing, bringing the money to Washington and then 2-27-12 60 1 allocating it based on Washington desires, the program was 2 decentralized, federalized to the state level. States were 3 given administration to run the program, and what they were 4 given is the ability to issue tax credits. 5 Those tax credits are then sold to investors who 6 buy the credits -- private sector investors who buy the 7 credits, and their return on that investment is a credit 8 against their federal income tax for the next 10 years. The 9 money comes into the project, and that money acts as equity, 10 which then allows the projects to get built, because you're 11 not having to finance the project. Approximately 80 percent 12 of the cost comes in as equity. You have a much, much lower 13 debt load, if any debt load, and therefore you charge lower 14 rents on the real estate. But it's completely private sector 15 finance. And the other side of the quid pro quo is, then, 16 the people who move in are limited by the income they can 17 earn or make in order to live there. And that's the program. 18 Well, our financing mechanism includes those tax 19 credits, so we have to go to Texas Housing and apply for 20 those credits. And as part of that process, there's a 21 rigorous point system and rule system that you have to 22 follow. So, part of that point system is the local 23 municipality in which your project is located must pass a 24 resolution of support, and must, through some mechanism, 25 provide skin in the game; as I said in the Council meeting, 2-27-12 61 1 some kind of matching funding. So, that was one of the 2 issues going to the City Council, getting their resolution of 3 support, and trying to find the matching funding. The other 4 issue that -- two issues, actually, that became controversial 5 was we're on federal property; the V.A. Medical Center does 6 not pay property taxes. However, the V.A. requires us, as a 7 part of this lease, to negotiate an arrangement with the 8 local taxing authority, and those arrangements may be 9 familiar to you. They're called PILOT agreements, Payment In 10 Lieu Of Tax agreements. 11 And so in the meeting, I was asked the question, 12 would we be paying property taxes? And I said yes, we would. 13 Well, we would like to negotiate -- we have to negotiate a 14 PILOT agreement with you. But because we are providing 15 services on the V.A. Medical Center campus, because most of 16 the services will be either provided by the V.A. or be 17 provided by us, we're not going to have children, so we're 18 not going to have an impact on the schools; we would like to 19 negotiate an agreement where our payments in lieu of taxes 20 would be lesser than what might be for another project. And 21 that turned into a big issue, and it got misconstrued as 22 somehow we were asking for a free ride, which was never the 23 case, but I just wanted to clear that -- make that point. 24 And then the final issue was, there are tax credit 25 projects in Kerrville. There is a HUD-financed project in 2-27-12 62 1 Kerrville, and there's some extremely nice assisted living 2 communities in Kerrville. And so part of the issue was, are 3 we going to be coming in and competing in a market -- both a 4 market that may be soft, and competing unfairly with guys who 5 have put out their hard-earned cash and risk in the private 6 sector? So, those were the issues that were brought up. And 7 then, finally, I guess, to come back around to the largest 8 issue was, were we going to make this housing specifically 9 for veterans? And at that time, I said that is our intent. 10 I'm a veteran. I am doing this -- I'm not coming to 11 Kerrville, Texas, to build housing for seniors. There -- 12 there are hundreds of markets in the United States for senior 13 housing -- independent living senior housing that would be 14 better than Kerrville in terms of a market. We're coming to 15 Kerrville because that's where the V.A. Medical Center is. 16 That's where this RFP was proposed, and we want to serve 17 veterans. But because of some federal requirements, we can't 18 just by fiat say that we will serve only veterans. Well, 19 after that meeting, I was pretty disappointed, so I had my 20 attorney do some things. I'm going to -- is it okay if I 21 hand this out to you gentlemen? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 23 MR. TAYLOR: I wanted to hand out a couple of 24 things to y'all. Just hand this around, and this is the 25 second thing. I asked my attorney, a gentleman named Gene 2-27-12 63 1 Crick with a firm out of Orlando, Florida, Broad and Cassel, 2 to look into this matter more fully. What we found is that 3 we were not the first ones to face this situation, and there 4 was a project in Sepulveda, California, and these are 5 correspondences dated in 2009. And the more important piece 6 of correspondence is the third page, which is a letter from 7 the H.U.D. General Counsel for Fair Housing, which stipulates 8 that it is possible, within Section 504 of the Fair Housing 9 Act, to provide housing exclusively for veterans. And this 10 was not something I knew before, and thanks to the good work 11 of my attorney, we found this. And Ms. Pennington is the 12 General Counsel; she's still on staff at H.U.D. for making 13 these determinations. 14 So, what we felt like for the first time is we had 15 the legal, and if you will, political cover to come out and 16 boldly state that we're going to make this housing available 17 to veterans, and only to veterans, and we will commit to 18 that. Remember, this is a lease, and that lease runs for 75 19 years. So, we've asked the V.A. -- and that's basically what 20 the cover letter is. Again, we're picking up on what the 21 Sepulveda folks -- we're going to ask the V.A. to incorporate 22 into our lease a veterans-only clause, so that if we house 23 non-veterans, except for family members of veterans, spouses 24 and dependent children, if there were any, we want to serve 25 only veterans. So, that was a tremendous benefit to us, and 2-27-12 64 1 something that, as I've said from the get-go, is what we 2 intended to do all along. 3 The little single sheet of paper I've given to you 4 is another matter. What I've been talking with you up to 5 this point is H.U.D. 504, Fair Housing Act. But there's also 6 Section 42 of the Internal Revenue Code, which has to do with 7 the tax credits. So, the question is, can we restrict 8 housing to a class of people within the Tax Code under 9 Section 42? And so I got our accounting gurus on that to 10 look into it, and they did a little funky -- that's where I 11 highlighted it, but it just goes through the paragraph in 12 Section 42 which says, yes, you can. And within that, let's 13 say you did a housing development just for victims of spouse 14 abuse. That's okay. You might take a historic building and 15 turn it into artist lofts and finance it with tax credits. 16 That's okay. Or you might develop a property on a V.A. 17 medical center campus and restrict it only to veterans. 18 That's okay. 19 So, the point I'm trying to make here is that under 20 federal law, Fair Housing law, and under Section 42 of the 21 I.R.S. Code that governs low-income housing tax credits, we 22 have the legal and political authority to go forward and 23 restrict this to veterans only. So, I think we've addressed 24 that, and tomorrow night I'll be in front of the City Council 25 to make those points. The second thing -- just let me tick 2-27-12 65 1 through them. Payment in lieu of taxes. I have said 2 publicly in the newspapers, to anybody and everybody, most of 3 the Council members as well, that if their desire is that we 4 pay a full load of taxes, whatever that appraised value and 5 assessment might be, then we will do so. The only caveat 6 I've added to that is, this model is based on every dime that 7 is paid in rent gets recycled back into the project. We've 8 structured it as basically a no-debt deal, so that if it 9 costs $350 a unit a month to operate the property, and it 10 pays $500 a month, the other 150 goes back into the services 11 for the vets, so it's services that are being paid. On the 12 other hand, there is a reciprocal agreement with the V.A. 13 that fire and EMS services and so forth are provided by the 14 City. Inasmuch as our population will be calling upon those 15 services, we're more than happy to pay for them. 16 But in the interests of getting this project done, 17 if the City says you also need to pay for school taxes and 18 whatever else, and County says you got to pay our taxes and 19 so forth, then we're going to pay whatever, because the 20 project is too darned important to have it turned down over 21 $25,000 or $30,000 a year. We just don't want to do that. 22 The third issue had to do with this funding. In working with 23 the City, and in working with some of the City Council 24 members, they have come up with a method for providing the 25 funding for this. It's through Texas Housing, and it's -- 2-27-12 66 1 unfortunately, in my opinion, it's with what are called home 2 dollars. And so that brings in federal dollars, which we had 3 been able to avoid up to this point, but it brings in federal 4 dollars in order to get the match. But that's the way they 5 want to get the matching funds into the deal, and without 6 those funds, as I said, we don't have a chance of being 7 competitive, so we've agreed to that. And if the Council 8 approves it Tuesday night, we'll pass a resolution to that 9 effect, and we'll be able to apply and hopefully receive the 10 matching funds. 11 And then, finally, the competition with the 12 surrounding market. Our original project was 80 units. We 13 reduced it based on all this input. Well, let me back up. 14 Our original proposal to the V.A. was for 100 total units, so 15 we had -- we were going to do 80 and then 20. With all the 16 input about this and all the concern, we backed it down to 50 17 units, and then for a -- it's a real esoteric reason, we've 18 reduced that one more unit to 49, so we're now at 49 units. 19 There'll be 27 one-bedrooms and 22 two-bedrooms, and the 20 rents will be commensurate with some of the other tax credit 21 projects. However -- however, a couple of things. One, the 22 project that has received the most attention about this, 23 because we have, like I said, one H.U.D. project, they are -- 24 the rents are subsidized. It's a subsidized rent project, so 25 it's really not a comparison to what we're doing. The other 2-27-12 67 1 project, Kerrville Meadows, I think, is a tax credit project 2 that was built years ago, and is doing fairly well. 3 The project that has raised the issues is the 4 Gardens of Clearwater, and they're not leased up yet; 5 however, all their one-bedrooms are leased, and their 6 two-bedrooms are starting to lease. And those of us -- I've 7 spent a career doing senior housing. Those of us who know 8 senior housing, your absorption rates are much slower, 9 especially in small markets like this. When I look at their 10 property, they're leasing up just fine. They're -- they're 11 leasing -- you know, we usually look at a rate of four or 12 five units a month. If you do an 80-unit project, you're -- 13 it's going to take you a while to lease up. The other side 14 of that is, once they're in there, they never leave. So you 15 don't want to have the massive turnover that you have in a 16 family project, where people come and go every year, so you 17 pay on the front end by having a slower absorption. But once 18 they're in, they're in, and it's very unusual that those 19 tenants will leave and move and go to another property like 20 families oftentimes do, and shop the rental market and so 21 forth. Yes, sir? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Taylor, may I ask a 23 question and give you an opportunity to take a breath? 24 MR. TAYLOR: Take a breath. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We haven't seen this in a 2-27-12 68 1 while. You and I met a month or so ago at another meeting. 2 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I asked you -- or I made 4 the statement to you that this Commissioners Court is a very 5 proactive group, and that we like to see out in front what's 6 going on. And I asked you the question, "Do you think that 7 there is any issue with your project that would affect this 8 county financially?" And the reason for that question is -- 9 is that we have a budget process coming up soon, and if -- 10 you know, if your program runs, and if there's something that 11 we need to prepare for, just -- you know, if you could let us 12 know what that is so we could prepare for it. Have you given 13 that any thought since we visited last? 14 MR. TAYLOR: Well, yes. I mean, and I haven't 15 studied -- I have staff, and I didn't prepare for the 16 particular question, but inasmuch as those services -- 17 police, fire, and EMS services -- are provided by the City, 18 there would be no impact on the county. I was all ears while 19 listening to your emergency services district, and so I don't 20 know what that means and whether that would have any impact. 21 I would have to profess ignorance on that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've answered it. Thank 23 you very much. 24 MR. TAYLOR: But no other service whatsoever. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Y'all 2-27-12 69 1 better get him quick; he's going to start talking again. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just want to say -- 3 Commissioner Baldwin made the comment that we had visited, 4 and we attended -- I attended the January 17th meeting that 5 he was talking about, the Hill Country Veterans Council. 6 You've answered a couple of the questions that I wanted to 7 hear about the scope of the project, how it's changed from 8 the 80, now down to 49. That's something that we had -- the 9 Commissioners Court had requested. And, again, I appreciate 10 your coming and giving your presentation today. The 11 Commissioners Court had requested that you come and talk a 12 little bit about the program, the Communities for Veterans. 13 What other states are you involved in in our country right 14 now, that you're working on similar projects right now? 15 MR. TAYLOR: I got involved with it through a 16 previous round of these EUL's in Augusta, the Charlie Norwood 17 V.A. Medical Center, where we were renovating two historic 18 buildings for 70 homeless veterans, 20 in a transitional 19 program and 50 in permanent supportive housing. And at that 20 hospital, they have a domiciliary program with 60 units -- 60 21 beds, and they're -- they're stuck; there's nowhere for those 22 vets to go. And these are mostly vets with traumatic brain 23 injury, some mobility impairment, paralysis, or amputees or 24 P.T.S.D., post-traumatic stress disorder, and just substance 25 abuse that comes with that. We have a second project we've 2-27-12 70 1 just been approved for on that same campus for working with 2 the Wounded Warrior project with more seriously disabled 3 veterans. There'll be just 30 units, and in a special 4 facility for just that. We have two projects in Ohio; one in 5 Dayton, which will be a 15-acre site, and we'll do family, 6 senior, and homeless/disabled, and then one in Chillicothe, 7 Ohio, which is some vacant buildings and vacant land. 8 Northport, New York, which is a similar project, 9 Long Island, very high-dollar community, and a project 10 similar to what we're doing here, but at about triple the 11 scale up there, and it'll be for assisted living and senior 12 independent living. We have one in Hines, Chicago, which is 13 a suburb of Chicago, on the Hines V.A. Medical Center campus. 14 It's 120 units for homeless vets, completely. They also have 15 several others with Catholic Charities and other social 16 service groups. They have Fisher House for families, like 17 Ronald McDonald House for families and so forth. So, they're 18 -- they are really proactive, a very aggressive campus. We 19 have one in a similar market to Kerrville in Fort Harrison, 20 Montana -- Helena, Montana, the capitol of Montana, where 21 we're taking 11 buildings -- houses, and renovating them, and 22 this will be for 40 homeless veterans, and then there will be 23 a 2.2-acre site as well that we'll redevelop. Vancouver, 24 Washington, a 2-acre site which will be for homeless vets, 25 42-unit development there. And then here. So, those are the 2-27-12 71 1 other sites for which we were selected. 2 And we would like -- we're trying to get selected 3 for others. We're a consortium -- and you're right, I can 4 talk a blue streak. But we're a consortium. What happened 5 is, I personally -- and I don't want to get off into the 6 personal weeds here, but I'm a Vietnam-era vet. I served in 7 a missile silo in North Dakota as a nuclear missile launch 8 officer. I didn't have to go to that god-awful war, but many 9 of my friends and associates did, and our county didn't do 10 them right when they came back. I'm going to preaching now. 11 But I swore and be darned that if I ever had a chance, I was 12 going to do something about it, and I got a chance with this 13 Augusta project. I live in Atlanta, a couple hours away, 14 right there in my back yard -- front yard, and I did 15 something about it. So, I personally wrote this RFP. But 16 I'm a small guy. I'm a -- a reformed United Methodist 17 minister, and so I -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: There you go. 19 MR. TAYLOR: So -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I take the collection? 21 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. (Laughter.) But I haven't 22 the ability to pull it off by myself, and so I brought in a 23 big developer out of Florida, Beneficial Communities. I 24 brought in a big national construction company that had been 25 doing a lot of military housing and V.A. construction, Core 2-27-12 72 1 Construction out of Peoria, Illinois. And we formed a joint 2 venture with a little nonprofit, Affordable Housing 3 Solutions, with which I'm involved, and that was just for the 4 Augusta project. And when this new RFP came along, voilà, 5 here we can do this thing nationally, really make a 6 difference. And until I came to Kerrville, I had no idea 7 about Mr. MacDonald and his previous effort and any of that. 8 And, you know, I don't want to even take sides. I want to 9 help veterans. I want to do good. Anyway, I'm going to go 10 off on the deep end. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One last question real quick, 12 A and B. Again, this project here, you answered my question, 13 I think. This is for veterans only? 14 MR. TAYLOR: Only. Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And age 55 and older, so this 16 would be just for our Vietnam veterans; is that correct? Or 17 is this kind of open to any other -- 18 MR. TAYLOR: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- terminology there? 20 MR. TAYLOR: Yeah, I'll get off into the weeds 21 again, but it's housing for older persons, and that's 55 and 22 older. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 24 MR. TAYLOR: Which would be probably not World War 25 II, but we do have some Korean-era veterans, even some Desert 2-27-12 73 1 Storm. Like I say, I'm a cold war veteran; we won our war. 2 So -- but, you know, that kind of thing; I'm teasing some of 3 my friends. But it would be that era. But also, it's for 4 disabled. You cannot just have seniors. I mean, so if it's 5 disabled, you will -- you can move them in. So, a person 6 confined to a wheelchair or blind or something like that, 7 under 55 could live there. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And my last follow-up with 9 that is just basically the numbers the government is saying 10 that are coming down the road for this particular age, how -- 11 are they just off the chart? What are we hearing? 12 MR. TAYLOR: They are. The -- and this program has 13 really been the focus on homeless, but it hasn't been on the 14 senior housing. But we all know with the baby boom 15 generation and everything, there were -- there are millions 16 and millions of individuals who served in Vietnam, and 17 they're all, you know, aging. And that was a unique 18 demographic war, because most of those were draftees, and 19 they were mostly drafted out of the lower income ranks, and 20 so they really didn't have the retirement accounts and so 21 forth that others had. And that's really what's got the 22 Veterans Administration scared to death, is that that's going 23 to fall on their shoulders as well. 24 Let me just add one other very important thing. 25 Judge Tinley is like, "This guy will never shut up." One 2-27-12 74 1 other thing. The -- and I'm not holding this out. We have 2 tried to get a commitment, because our lease will run for 75 3 years, if signed. I mean, we have a lease now, but if this 4 all works out, the final lease will be 75 years. We've asked 5 for a commitment from the V.A. to keep the Kerrville division 6 of South Texas open for that period as well, and they have 7 not been willing to do so. And what they have said to us, 8 very candidly, is even if we agreed to it, another 9 administration would come along and they could remand the 10 agreement, so that's not of great value. On the other hand, 11 by having this facility on that campus, we believe that it 12 will go a long way towards establishing the -- I guess the 13 physical presence that is necessary to keep that V.A. Medical 14 Center, and we are very much counting on Phase 1 and Phase 2, 15 if it's needed, accomplishing that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 17 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question. What you're 19 saying, you're here really just to present to the County; 20 there's no action that you need from the County. It's pretty 21 much up to the City, because it's a municipality. 22 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other question -- or I 24 guess it's really not a question, more of a statement, is 25 that, you know, this Court and I, certainly, personally have 2-27-12 75 1 always been very supportive of V.A. myself. The V.A. 2 Hospital in Kerrville, to me, the fact that this is a -- a 3 VA-driven facility -- I mean, it's on V.A. property; they 4 dictated the RFP. It's something I've got to support. I 5 support the V.A., and that is what I think is the critical 6 point of that. And I hope the City sees it the same way, 7 because if we could do something, I would certainly support 8 it proactively. I can't -- or I don't need to, but I think 9 that it's -- I have a hard time understanding why it should 10 not get support. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Taylor, if I might ask a couple 13 of questions, the -- I'm assuming, and correct me if this is 14 not correct, that once these facilities are built, your 15 organization, which is a commercial venture, as it were, 16 would continue to operate these facilities and administer 17 them and so forth? They're not going to immediately be 18 turned over as government property? 19 MR. TAYLOR: No, sir. That's where the 75-year 20 lease comes in. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. TAYLOR: And our -- our obligation, our 23 responsibility -- not just do we operate them, but we 24 guarantee them. And, again, this is private sector finance, 25 and so if whomever -- if Raytheon or Boeing or somebody buys 2-27-12 76 1 these tax credits, we guarantee them the delivery of those 2 tax credits for the next 10 years, and so we have to sign 3 personal guarantees, and these are substantial amounts of 4 money. This project was up in the -- the teens. Now it's 5 about a $7 million project, but still, we'll be guaranteeing 6 about six of that seven million dollars, and -- and for the 7 next 15 years, and that guarantee means it has to be operated 8 in a fiscally responsible way. It has to pay its bills. 9 There is no government bailout. There's no government 10 funding whatsoever coming in to support the operations. I 11 say that. We would like to have some rental support for some 12 of the more destitute of the vets who might come to live 13 there, and we will be -- basically, it's a pay-as-you-go for 14 the veterans who live there. 15 It's just that because of this mechanism I started 16 out talking about, the amount of rent that we have to charge 17 will be in line with what some of the other programs -- 18 housing is out there, with a couple of caveats; that we will 19 offer more services. And, specifically, the V.A. Medical 20 Center will be offering all of its medical services, but 21 there will be transportation services if they've got to go to 22 Audie Murphy, or we'll have meals; we'll have 24-hour 23 security. We will have various types of counseling and 24 therapeutic programs there that will be above and beyond 25 what's being offered at Gardens of Clearwater. So, in your 2-27-12 77 1 mind, it's a hybrid between an independent living affordable 2 property and -- and assisted living community like Plaza on 3 the River or something like that. It'll be between those, 4 but it'll be infinitely affordable to the vets who are living 5 there, and we will be -- to come back, we will be responsible 6 for the whole thing. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- I was having a problem 8 trying to figure out on this ad valorem tax issue, and the 9 misunderstanding or the failure to understand of -- it occurs 10 to me that essentially what you're doing is making leasehold 11 improvements by a commercial organization. I'm certainly no 12 ad valorem tax expert, but it occurs to me that leasehold 13 improvements are taxable -- 14 MR. TAYLOR: Taxable. Fully taxable. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as real property. Just -- you 16 know, if -- if someone were to rent a building from one 17 commercial venture, do leasehold improvements there, the 18 owner of the building pays taxes on the property absent the 19 leasehold improvements. The leaseholder pays the ad valorem 20 taxes on improvements. 21 MR. TAYLOR: You're absolutely correct. I made 22 this point to Todd -- Todd Parton the other day, and it's 23 handled differently in different jurisdictions. And because 24 it's federal property -- but my understanding of the Tax Code 25 is exactly what you've said, and that we are to be taxed for 2-27-12 78 1 our leasehold improvements, as would anyone else. That's -- 2 and I had this conversation last week with Todd. It's -- the 3 V.A. comes up with these things, and let -- in candor, what 4 seemingly has happened with some other projects in other 5 locations, they've tried to wiggle out of paying taxes by 6 saying we're on federal property. And oftentimes, the taxing 7 authorities are not as astute, maybe, as you are, Judge, and 8 so they -- they have almost gotten away with it. And so the 9 V.A. necessarily -- the bureaucrats in the V.A. who are 10 managing this program probably don't understand all the 11 nuances of that. What I'm required to do is get an agreement 12 from the local taxing authorities, whatever that agreement 13 is, and -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: To enable your tax credits so that 15 you can make this thing work. 16 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. That's -- but you can ask 17 Mr. Parton. Just last week I was in a lengthy conversation 18 with him on this matter, and I made that -- the exact same 19 point. I think you're absolutely correct. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: One last question. If 21 approved, what is your timeline? 22 MR. TAYLOR: Too long. You reminded me of y'all's 23 conversation. We apply for tax credits. We need -- we need 24 either -- we need the City to approve their part. We need 25 either Senator Fraser or Representative Hilderbran to bring a 2-27-12 79 1 letter of support for us, and they're playing their cards 2 close to the vest. Then we go in front of Florida, the -- I 3 mean -- not Florida, Texas on March 1st, and they then go 4 through their meat grinder review process, and it'll come out 5 sometime in mid-simmer that they approve us. Only at that 6 point do we turn it over to our architects, civil engineers, 7 you know, mechanical, electrical contractors and so forth to 8 really do the workup of the thing. And we'll do the same 9 thing, design-bid-build. It'll be local Texas contractors 10 who build it, and so I expect we'll probably break ground in 11 February of next year, and it will be -- since it's only 49 12 units, you know, probably be an eight-, nine-month process to 13 build it. So, end of 2013 is our placed-in-service projected 14 date. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your critical timeline at this 16 point is having things in place to go before the state agency 17 that formally approves the tax credits. That's -- that's the 18 critical timeline that you're operating on now, and that's 19 March 1? 20 MR. TAYLOR: Thursday. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That is very, very quick. 22 MR. TAYLOR: Well, if the Council will approve -- 23 they have two resolutions, one resolution to approve the 24 project, a second resolution for us to act as their agent to 25 apply for these immediate dollars for the matching funds. If 2-27-12 80 1 those two are approved Tuesday night, then I need to get the 2 documentation Wednesday morning. I have staff members in 3 Austin waiting for me. I'll be in Austin and get that to 4 them. They can then hand-deliver the application on 5 Thursday. We're can-do folks. We're real serious about it. 6 Then either Senator Fraser or Representative Hilderbran has 7 until May 1st to weigh in with a letter of support on this 8 thing. Even then, it's competitive. There will be other 9 senators and representatives. There will be other 10 communities that will be pushing their projects, and we have 11 quite a bit of competition in this little area, so we don't 12 know whether we'll get it or not. 13 But, I mean, you know, why am I here? I don't 14 really need anything from you. I should have started with an 15 apology for not being in front of you sooner. I sort of did 16 that by saying we were just jammed up trying to get this 17 thing in and so forth, and then I ran into the buzz-saw. But 18 we want everybody's support. But I'm sure every now and 19 then, y'all probably talk to the state senators, state 20 representative, and if y'all know about the project and if 21 you support it, maybe you'll communicate it to them. And -- 22 and Mayor Wampler and the county -- doesn't sound like 23 there's -- y'all send each other Christmas cards, but, you 24 know, if y'all could. I'm -- I'm getting into a lighthearted 25 mood; I've been here too long. Thank you very much, unless 2-27-12 81 1 you have any other questions. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just wanted to make a short 4 statement. You know, I think you've cleared up all the 5 questions that have been asked. 6 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The controversy, I hope, has 8 been put to sleep. I mean, you're -- before, I don't think 9 you really had the veterans only. I think it was your 10 intent. 11 MR. TAYLOR: You're correct. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But now that you have that, 13 that makes a big difference. And the other thing is that 14 you're not asking us to give you a bunch of money that we 15 don't have. So, I don't -- you know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I wish you good luck and Godspeed in 17 serving veterans, sir. 18 MR. TAYLOR: Thank you very much, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Mr. Taylor. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Cantrell? 21 MR. CANTRELL: Good morning, still. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 23 MR. CANTRELL: Okay. Well, I was here two weeks 24 ago, and so you know what I've got to say. You know how I 25 feel. But a few other organizations have jumped on our 2-27-12 82 1 bandwagon in support. Those of you who saw our ad in the 2 weekend paper on 12-A, we had that arranged to show up facing 3 the editorial page on 5-A, but it showed up in the business 4 section in 12-A, so I had some people say, "Well, you didn't 5 get your ad in." Well, I said, "Well, just keep leafing 6 through there and you'll find it." But I want to reiterate, 7 'cause she's taking it down, that I am the commander of the 8 AMVETS Post 1000, the Corporal Jacob C. Leicht Memorial 9 AMVETS post. But I'm here this morning, and I would be -- I 10 would have a crowd here with me, but I asked them, if they 11 would, to stay at home and I would represent them. And I am 12 speaking for the -- the officers of the of Hill Country 13 Veterans Council, of the Hill Country Honor Guard, of the VFW 14 Heart of the Hills Post 1480, for the Military Officers 15 Association of America, Hill Country Post -- boy, and I'll 16 get kicked if I'm forgetting anybody. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: American Legion? 18 MR. CANTRELL: Saturday, at the Salute to Women 19 Veterans, we had a -- we were allowed to have a table there, 20 and the commander of the American Legion Post 13 -- the 21 original American Legion post, Post 13, because they were the 22 13th American Legion post in the country, the original owners 23 of that property, the ones who were known as "the Legion" 24 when the hospital was known as the Legion, said they're in 25 full support. Also, the Military Order of the Purple Heart. 2-27-12 83 1 All of these organizations are in support of this project. 2 The lone holdout at this point is the American Legion Post 3 208, and I don't wish to address that item. But I told you 4 before, I believe that when Mr. Taylor came here the first 5 time, it was the day that the V.A. gave him the tour of the 6 5 acres. Myself and Colonel Vicki Marsh, Marine Corps, 7 retired, accompanied Mr. Taylor, and had quite an opportunity 8 to talk to him after he toured the property. 9 And let me add there, this was opened -- they had 10 expected two other developers to show up, and they didn't. 11 Mr. Taylor was the only one that showed up. But we spoke at 12 length to him after that tour, and finding him a veteran, we 13 fully believe that he is a totally committed veteran to the 14 good of veterans. So, I had some other things to say, but in 15 his little short talk, he answered almost all of them. I do 16 know -- basically, I understand the point system that he 17 needs. I think it's 18 points from the City Council. Now, I 18 thought it was also March the 1st for the points he would 19 gain from Troy Fraser and Harvey Hilderbran, so we've been 20 rushing around getting our letters prepared, talking to the 21 other outfits to get their letters prepared to go to the 22 legislators, so I guess we can relax a little bit on those 23 letters. But -- so I'm just hoping -- I'll have to tell you, 24 I look at the five of you and I get really good feelings, and 25 so I want to thank you very much. And I'll stop there. 2-27-12 84 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you, Bill. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commander? I love this. Right on. 3 MR. CANTRELL: Thank you, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that particular 5 item? Before we break, let's quickly do Item 12; to 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to appoint Bob 7 Reeves to ESD Number 2 for a two-year term. Commissioner 8 Oehler? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. I was one person 10 short at the ESD Number 2 in Mountain Home, and Mr. Reeves 11 has graciously jumped through -- you know, himself to do 12 this, and I really appreciate it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's a great American, isn't 14 he? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He is. This is -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is he in here? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think he's sitting back in 18 the corner here, being real quiet. I move that we -- we 19 appoint Bob Reeves to the ESD Number 2. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Further 23 question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 24 your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-27-12 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's take 4 about a 15-, 20-minute recess here. 5 (Recess taken from 10:51 a.m. to 11:11 a.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 8 we might. We've got a 10:50 item here, so let's get that. 9 Item 16, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 10 allow the building located at 1994 Airport Loop to be used as 11 a welding/automotive training site for area welding 12 companies. I just checked a little bit ago, and Mr. Watson 13 is out of town. This says Commissioner Overby, Precinct 4. 14 How'd that happen? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know how that worked 16 out. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, now, I don't know. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: He's got designs on your territory. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: "O" and "O." 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Better stay out of there. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Anyway, I do get one 22 invitation a year out there in January. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I appreciate that. 25 Mr. Watson is not available to be with us today, and so I had 2-27-12 86 1 this on the agenda. Last Monday, on February 20th at the 2 Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board meeting, the 3 Airport Board made the recommendation -- Mr. Watson made a 4 presentation there about regards of using the 1994 Airport 5 Loop Road as a training site area for welding training and 6 automotive training for particular businesses and 7 manufacturers in the Kerrville/Kerr County area. I'll tell 8 you a little bit about that recommendation from the Airport 9 Board. Just to tell you a little bit about that building out 10 there, it's an old metal building, about 10,000 square feet. 11 It was built in the early '70's. We do know that from '76 to 12 2001, it was a building used by Gibsons Discount Center as a 13 warehouse building and offices and those type of things. The 14 building was used from -- after their vacancy, leaving the 15 building, it was used by B.A. Products building. Many of you 16 remember, they were the deer-feeding assembly; they built 17 deer feeders here, and up until about four years ago. They 18 were here through about 2007-'8, and then it was -- has 19 remained vacant since -- between when they left to go to 20 Dallas, the building has been vacated. 21 And, again, the revenue as far as the airport 22 concern has not -- none of that's been coming in over the 23 last three or four years. But the building right now, as 24 Mr. Watson said, there's a need to put the building back to 25 use here in our community to train welders. We've all been 2-27-12 87 1 reading in the newspapers here the last couple of weeks about 2 one of those companies is the Fox Tank Company, as far as the 3 need to train future welders and welders right now for their 4 growth and their company. The other thing is, this training 5 site or this training building is not only for Fox Tank, but 6 it's for also Frontier Truck Gear and some other 7 opportunities and welding in our communities. They also -- 8 Mr. Watson did make the recommendation, and the board's 9 recommendation also included automotive training as well. 10 Even though this initial request is for welding, automotive 11 was approved as well in that request, and the agenda item 12 here today is to look at it. 13 And, basically, what we're looking at as far as the 14 county standpoint, as far as the revenue standpoint, is even 15 though this is to look at the training site to be used for 16 two years for those particular items that the Airport Board 17 recommended, to give consideration from the Court on waiving 18 our rental fee or our lease fee for this facility, and 19 understanding that the benefit to the county with this 20 training site is -- even though that we're not receiving 21 lease money, this property -- the benefit that we are doing 22 to the community is the indirect benefit of the jobs that are 23 being trained and that are going into the work force and 24 helping our other companies to expand and grow in our 25 community. With that, I want to ask Shannon Fahrenthold to 2-27-12 88 1 come up. Many of you know Shannon. 2 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Shawna. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Shawna, excuse me. And don't 4 worry about it, Shawna; somebody called me Oehler in Precinct 5 4 here today, so we're -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Boy, that's a big mistake. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Shawna is our director at the 8 Alamo Colleges Greater Kerrville center, and Shawna was at 9 the presentation also with Mr. Watson last Monday, and 10 addressed the board as well. And I've asked her to come and 11 address the board as well, because there were some questions 12 about utilities and et cetera and those type of things. 13 Shawna, tell us a little bit about what those questions might 14 be, and what that grant might cover and those type of things. 15 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Okay. We -- we were asked about 16 who would cover the insurance, and the response to that is 17 that normally the landlord insures the building, and we would 18 insure the contents and have liability on that. So, that was 19 one thing that was asked about the utilities, who would cover 20 those costs. That's us. Alamo Colleges will pay the utility 21 bills there for the training. What else do we cover? We 22 cover -- we're buying welders. There's some electrical stuff 23 inside the building that's going to have to be changed. 24 Right now, most of it's 110; it's going to need to be 240. 25 Also, we're in talks with KPUB about getting the three-phase 2-27-12 89 1 electrical from across the street to that building, so we're 2 not sure if there's going to be some cost at this point or 3 not yet. We're still working on that. Operations, 4 instructions, we'll handle that. Maintenance. As the 5 physical structure, usually the landlord takes care of that 6 part, but if there's any inside maintenance, that will be on 7 us. The grant's going to cover us buying the welders or us 8 finding that instructor, us providing the instruction, you 9 know, the supplies that are going to be needed to go with 10 that. So, the grant's going to cover that part of it. It 11 just doesn't cover us, you know, having a building that we 12 can pay lease or rent on. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask a question of Mr. Moser. 15 I assume that -- that there is fire and extended coverage on 16 the building itself out there that the Airport Board 17 maintains, is there not? 18 MR. MOSER: There is right now, yes, sir. Yes, 19 there is. I might just add some things, that -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 21 MR. MOSER: -- the building has not been leased for 22 the last four years, because we were precluded from doing so 23 because of fire -- fire water flow. That's fixed. We have 24 not found another tenant for that. The other thing, the 25 board, I think, would have just given the authority to say 2-27-12 90 1 yes for this to Alamo Community College, but we were 2 precluded, with the new interlocal agreement, from doing so 3 without the approval. So, we're in full support of it. And 4 I'm not sure, but I don't even think we put restrictions on 5 automotive or anything. This was the intent, the welding, 6 but I don't believe we put -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 8 MR. MOSER: We just didn't want to be out of pocket 9 for any money for three-phase power or any -- any additional 10 insurance. We want to be not liable -- not liable for 11 anything. That's the thing we wanted to make sure of. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think the other thing -- 13 Tom, you made a good point. The automotive part of this 14 grant request here, we're just looking at the welding 15 equipment. 16 MR. MOSER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: This does not cover anything 18 with lifts or anything that you get on -- 19 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: When we get into the automotive, 20 there's going to be some cost with buying the lifts that lift 21 the cars up so that the students can work under them. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 23 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: You know, that's something that 24 Ray talked about in the meeting at the Airport Board, about 25 securing some other funding to maybe get us our own facility 2-27-12 91 1 that's ours in the future, and not just a temporary spot. 2 MR. MOSER: But we think it's a good thing for the 3 community. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think the only other thing 6 we had was the agreement, and contractual-wise, we did have 7 to do it for a dollar a year, some type of agreement. There 8 was something -- 9 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: There was a discussion of a 10 dollar, yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Some other consideration. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Consideration, yeah. How 13 about a handful of peppercorns? Would that suffice, 14 Mr. Henneke? 15 MR. HENNEKE: Well, I would suggest under the 16 interlocal agreement, that the new term that was included 17 this year was bringing something like this to both the County 18 and the City. I think if it was being leased for no value -- 19 it certainly doesn't sound like there's no value here. 20 Sounds like there's considerable value. But I would suggest 21 that if the Commissioners Court does approve it, it would be 22 with the request that the Airport Board negotiate a lease. 23 Even if there's no rental amount, there does seem to be some 24 improvements that both sides are going to make, and then the 25 issue of indemnification and insurance and -- and, you know, 2-27-12 92 1 other issues specific to this could be reduced to writing 2 with the Airport Board directly. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think the -- I think the 4 interlocal agreement between the City and the County 5 concerning the airport is the prohibition on the Airport 6 Board from doing it for no consideration or no value. 7 MR. MOSER: That's correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I forget the exact term. But 9 otherwise, once we pass that hurdle by approval of this body 10 and the -- and the City Council, then it's back in their lap 11 to go forward and do the agreement and so forth. And 12 that's -- 13 MR. MOSER: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- certainly what I think would be 15 appropriate. I -- you know, the value there is obvious, and 16 any time you can benefit members of your community to provide 17 them more job skills that will keep those jobs here in the 18 community, you float whole boat up, and -- and I don't think 19 you can get any better value. It's just not a direct value 20 on a lease cost, but -- and we get the equipment as part of 21 the grant, and that -- that stays available for use. And -- 22 and the training aspect is being provided through a 23 cooperative effort of WorkSource and Greater Kerrville Center 24 of Alamo Colleges. And this is a win-win-win deal all the 25 way around, absolutely. 2-27-12 93 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And you've already said that 2 a couple of our major employers have already kind of signed 3 on with this? 4 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Yes. Yes, we have two employers 5 who have signed, basically, letters of intent to train their 6 employees with us under this grant. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to authorize 8 the Airport Board to rent the building at 1994 Airport Loop 9 Road to Alamo Colleges at reduced or no rate. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Further 12 question or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. The agreement 14 that you guys have with them, she said that -- that the 15 community college was responsible for the maintenance on the 16 inside. I'd hope that you get that in writing about the -- 17 if we -- if you're responsible for maintenance on the 18 outside, get specific about that. I mean, what really are we 19 responsible for -- or you? And when you have students out 20 there that is learning how to weld, do they -- is that a -- 21 is there a cost to them? 22 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: That is written into the grant. 23 This -- these certain amount of students will be covered 24 fully for their training. They will not have to pay. Now, 25 at some point, we will be out of the grant, and if we still 2-27-12 94 1 continue to offer welding training, and we hope that we do, 2 there might be some cost. But there's also federal loans; 3 there's state loans -- not loans, grants that they can apply 4 for that can help with that cost. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the community college is 6 making money, correct? 7 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Well, we're getting a grant to 8 pay for the training, yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think they're cleaning up on 12 this deal, though. I think they're just using the grant 13 money to cover the cost. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand, but I 16 just -- just wanted to make it clear. I mean, it's not a -- 17 not a wash-wash. But, good. I'm excited about it. Rock and 18 roll. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And 100 percent of those 20 grants -- I mean, some of those monies that are paying people 21 are paying for people being totally retrained, like 22 dislocated Mooney Airplane Company employees. 23 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: To answer your question, it 25 does pay 100 percent of those folks to help those come back 2-27-12 95 1 in on some of those. 2 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: We're going to use the grant 3 money till it runs out. We're going to train -- we're going 4 to train absolutely as many people with that money as we can 5 train in that time. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then if it does shift to 7 automotive -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I hope it does. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I said I hope down the road 11 it does. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too, but does that mean 13 that we have this discussion again? Or does the Airport 14 Board then have authority to continue with new programs, 15 or -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think you probably have to 17 come back and talk to the Airport Board again. Because -- 18 MR. MOSER: I think this is just -- just for 19 letting Alamo Community College use it for training. 20 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Welding. 21 MR. MOSER: I don't think it's restricted to 22 welders. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Two years job training, is what I 24 see. 25 MR. MOSER: Yeah, two years job training. It was 2-27-12 96 1 not restricted. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's open. It's open. 3 MR. MOSER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, good. Okay. I just 5 wanted to be clear on it. 6 MR. MOSER: It should be a letter from us to you. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 9 MS. FAHRENTHOLD: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 11 second, as I recall? 12 THE CLERK: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 14 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go 20 back to Item 10; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 21 action to amend contract for events at the Hill Country Youth 22 Exhibit Center. Mr. Henneke? 23 MR. HENNEKE: Gentlemen, in the discussions over 24 the exhibit center, we've been discussing the events that 25 have reserved a space, and as I understand from Jody, we're 2-27-12 97 1 booking events a year, two years down the road. And the 2 issue did arise about if, for some reason, we had to cancel 3 events, how we would do that. And currently, the lease is 4 silent as to our cancellation authority. I'm not saying we 5 don't have any; we just don't have that issue addressed in 6 the lease. And so, at the very bottom of the existing lease, 7 working with Jody, I drafted a paragraph that entitles the 8 County, with 60 days written notice, to cancel a rental any 9 time, for any reason, and I would suggest that or something 10 similar. Just put that out there and make sure everybody's 11 on notice. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, with the uncertainty we've got 13 going on out there with this transition, I think we've got to 14 have something there in order to protect ourselves and give 15 Ms. Grinstead a vehicle by which to continue to operate this 16 thing. 17 MR. HENNEKE: This isn't a revenue generator, and 18 it's something we offer for the community, but folks need to 19 know when they lease the facility, you know, it's not likely, 20 but if we need the space, it's our space. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What happens if we have an emergency 22 services requirement because of some natural disaster, and 23 we've got to utilize the facility, and somebody's got it 24 booked, for example? We probably have an emergency basis 25 upon which to do that. But this -- this would allow for any 2-27-12 98 1 other reason. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't realize that -- I 3 guess this all kind of popped up through the course of what 4 we're planning on the building project, and I appreciate the 5 County Attorney bringing it forward. And, you know, it does 6 need to be done, because there will be some instances coming 7 up -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure will. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- where we need to utilize 10 it for some other function. 11 MR. HENNEKE: And that is a good point, Judge. I 12 had put in this 60 days written notice, but we could add -- 13 it would be easy to add another paragraph that said, you 14 know, upon declaration of a public emergency by the 15 Commissioners Court, at any time with no notice. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you ought to put 17 that -- 18 MR. HENNEKE: You know, effective immediately. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Was the facility used during 21 the hurricane evacuation? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, it was set up for a 23 number of different uses. Christine McEntyre with the County 24 Attorney's office has really been kind of the lead on 25 companion animals during -- during natural disasters and 2-27-12 99 1 emergencies, and she's literally written the state plan for 2 this thing, and they've run exercises out there. They've 3 actually had it in operation as a result of those kinds of 4 emergencies, and -- but it's those kind of events. And I 5 think, you know, if the state emergency operations 6 headquarters, the governor's office, or this Court declares a 7 need to use that because of an emergency situation, why, that 8 probably ought to be added on there. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In fact, last time was during 10 the Bastrop fires. Janie had to set it all up just in case 11 they were needed -- folks needed space for animals. It's 12 been done several times. Christine, of course, heads it up, 13 but Janie's right there helping with setting -- organizing 14 the whole thing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've had a change since then, 16 though. They were using what was then the horse barn. 17 That's now been retrofitted for use by the 4-H people, so I'm 18 sure they've had to figure out how they're going to revamp 19 their -- their operation in the case of an emergency. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, you being the 22 emergency management coordinator type dude -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Dude? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for the county -- for the 25 county, I mean, there's a possibility you may not get this 2-27-12 100 1 Commissioners Court together to declare an emergency or 2 something like that, so you'd just be -- why couldn't we 3 just -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In my capacity as -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, make that call. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's going to originate from 7 the -- from the state office of emergency management through 8 the governor's office, and -- and then it comes down to the 9 local level. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comes down to you anyway. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The actual -- the actual county -- 12 county coordinator is the chief of Kerrville Fire Department. 13 Then, if it's an incident in the city, why, it falls to the 14 mayor. If it's outside the city, it falls into my lap. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: As the -- I don't know -- there's 17 some acronym for it; I can't recall it right now, but it has 18 to do with the emergency management function. But we work it 19 through the coordinator, which would remain the Fire Chief. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. I just -- 21 y'all were just using the words "Commissioners Court," and -- 22 MR. HENNEKE: You could say, "upon declaration by 23 the County Judge." You know, then -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it is set as an 2-27-12 101 1 evacuation point in case there were a disaster in certain 2 facilities -- local facilities. That wouldn't necessarily be 3 an emergency management situation through the governor's 4 office, or even through the emergency management. But if you 5 had a disaster at some of our local facilities, for a 6 temporary deal until they could move elsewhere, it is set as 7 an evacuation-type plan for use of that, which would be 8 immediate, but very temporary. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good point, 10 whatever it was. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what do you want to put in 12 here? 13 MR. HENNEKE: I would put, "Upon declaration of a 14 public emergency by the County Judge, lessor may cancel this 15 agreement effective immediately." And -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept that language, 17 in addition to what you've already provided. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 20 indicated. Any further question or discussion? All in 21 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 2-27-12 102 1 Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 2 accept the audit reports for Justice of the Peace, Precincts 3 1 through 4. 4 MS. MABRY: Good morning. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Boy, you got them all wrapped up, 6 didn't you? 7 MS. MABRY: I did. I decided to do it at once. 8 You saw Precincts 1 through 3, just a normal cash audit. 9 Precinct 4, we did decide to go ahead and roll in a $4,300 10 stale balance into the general fund of the county, and he 11 will be closing his checking accounts and putting it in the 12 revolving and clearing account of the county. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, everything straight to the 14 Treasurer? 15 MS. MABRY: Right. It's just going to make one 16 less reconciliation that Beth has to do, one less balance she 17 has to worry about. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Do I hear a motion to 19 accept the audit reports for -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Justice of the Peace, Precincts 1 23 through 4? We have a motion and second for approval. 24 Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 2-27-12 103 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item 5 14; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept 6 the audit reports of the County Clerk trust accounts. 7 MS. MABRY: On this particular audit, the only 8 thing that was not noted, upon response from the County 9 Clerk's office, is that they will be using the new ledger 10 sheets I included in the report, just for ease -- everyone's 11 ease, to be able to make changes on the account, and it being 12 one central location. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's already been worked out 14 with -- 15 MS. MABRY: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the Clerk's office? 17 MS. MABRY: And they've already started using that 18 form. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Already in place? 20 MS. MABRY: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 2-27-12 104 1 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 15 is to 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on agreement to 7 provide bond counsel services for possible capital financing 8 issues from the law offices of McCall, Parkhurst, and Horton, 9 L.L.P., and allow County Judge to sign the same. Ms. Mabry? 10 MS. MABRY: You have that letter in your packet. 11 That is actually, Judge, the original. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MS. MABRY: And it's pretty self-explanatory. I'm 14 sure you've had a chance to look over it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has the County Attorney 16 signed off on it? 17 MR. HENNEKE: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-27-12 105 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 2 MS. MABRY: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 17; to consider, 4 discuss, take appropriate action regarding interlocal 5 agreement between Kerr County and the City of Ingram for 6 street work, sealcoat, and use of a Cat 112 motor grader. 7 Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have been in meetings 9 with Len Odom and Kelly, myself, the new interim -- or new 10 City Manager at Ingram, Mr. Neuse, and we came up with this 11 lease agreement or interlocal agreement that addresses the 12 sealcoat and the road repair, and also the use of the old Cat 13 112 motor grader that stays in Precinct 4 all the time. And 14 -- and the agreement is basically the very same thing we have 15 with the City of Kerrville. I think this is going to be the 16 only one we we've really adopted, maybe, that we will have of 17 record, but the City of Ingram agrees with it. The Council 18 has already approved it and signed it. And what it basically 19 says is, they're going to pay for all the materials required 20 for any work done by the County for street repair or sealcoat 21 or whatever, and also pay the FEMA rate for the equipment 22 time and the manpower. And on the old 112 motor grader, they 23 will -- have agreed that -- that they will maintain it, 24 insure it and house it, and we get to use it as needed, 25 whenever we -- sometimes during -- like, after a flood, they 2-27-12 106 1 use it to clear roads and things, and if we have a need for 2 it, we can go by and pick it up and use it and then return 3 it. But they take care of the of all the maintenance from 4 henceforth, until sometime in the future, whenever they may 5 want to own their own or give it back. But we do not lose 6 our use of it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And in the agreement, it's 8 subject to scheduling on our part? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We essentially would have priority. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, we have priority. And 11 the agreement -- in fact, we're going to meet, I believe, in 12 the morning at 8:15 on kind of getting everybody on the same 13 page of time frames of when things could possibly happen this 14 year during the spring and summer. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume the County Attorney has 17 reviewed -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The County Attorney wrote it. 19 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How large is that project? 22 How many streets are involved? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, there are a bunch of 24 streets, but most of them are short, and it's going to be a 25 very limited amount each year, because the city has very 2-27-12 107 1 limited money. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And -- but every -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have a copy of the 5 document. Does everybody have one? Am I the only one left 6 out? Again. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I didn't have one. I 8 gave both of the ones I had to the Judge. They're both 9 originals, and they've both been signed. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See how they run this thing? 11 I'm telling you, man, it's been going on a long time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I sent you an e-mail asking for your 13 legal opinion on it, but I've yet to receive it. (Laughter.) 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wait a minute, I didn't hear 16 that. I move we approve the interlocal agreement with the 17 City of Ingram on the aforementioned sealcoat and road 18 maintenance, road repair, and use of Cat 112 motor grader. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort's coming next. No, I'm 23 kidding. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, isn't Comfort -- the town of 25 Comfort in Kendall County? 2-27-12 108 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not any more. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. We've got this deal about 3 the county seat moving around again? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, here we go. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, Ingram is in 6 the county. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At least Ingram's in it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 9 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, let me ask a question 15 right quick. So, we're going to do the program with Ingram, 16 and we have -- do we still have a little program with 17 Kerrville -- the City of Kerrville? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doing the same kind of deal, 20 only they don't -- we don't park something at their place. 21 And that's neat. That's neat, that we are nice people. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram is very, very 23 appreciative of our -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We should be helping Ingram. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- willingness to help where 2-27-12 109 1 we can. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know that they'll 3 ever get to that point, but, you know, we need to help. 4 They're taxpayers too. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to start with 6 Woodland, and then they're going to work through and do, 7 like, First and Second street, Third Street, and do the -- I 8 guess it's Carolyn -- I believe it's Carolyn, behind the -- 9 Woodbury's. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is the disaster. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I was over there here 13 a while back, and I saw a 1965 Volkswagen come out of one of 14 those potholes. (Laughter.) It was real muddy; not sure how 15 long it had been in there. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's better than nine pigs 17 and a sow coming up out of the one on Cutbirth. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I give. (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Met your match on that one, didn't 20 you? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a good one. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's get on to Item 18; 23 to consider, discuss, take appropriate action on authorizing 24 the county surveyor to survey property needed for additional 25 right-of-way for the proposed TexDOT Lazy Valley bridge 2-27-12 110 1 replacement project. Commissioner Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This project for Lazy Valley 3 across the Cypress Creek is moving forward. TexDOT has 4 requested that we have all right-of-way agreements in place 5 by early July. They plan to put the bridge out for bid in 6 August. I have verbal agreements with two of the groups -- 7 the property owners, and we're still hopeful with one, but 8 our timing is such that if we don't get cooperation, there 9 are other alternatives. I visited with the County Attorney 10 about it. But what we need first is to get actual survey 11 areas. We have drawings from TexDOT, but we need to get them 12 surveyed so we have legal descriptions so we can do the 13 agreements. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 19; consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Juvenile 25 Detention Facility to hire one additional part-time staff to 2-27-12 111 1 replace anticipated vacancy. Mr. Stanton? 2 MR. STANTON: Good morning. We're in the process 3 of trying to hire another female part-timer to replace the 4 female part-timer that we lost. And we -- we came before the 5 Court a while back, three or four months ago, to request one. 6 We still haven't filled that position either, so we're 7 actually going to be bringing two female part-timers in. 8 This is just to replace one that we lost just recently, is 9 what we're talking about today. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And since we take females detainees, 11 why, you got to have one of those there at all times, do you 12 not? 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. We have to have a female 14 staff on duty at all times. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Item 20; 25 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding capital 2-27-12 112 1 items list for proposed debt issue. We pretty -- I just put 2 this on here as a safeguard, that and the next item. I think 3 we've pretty well wrung out the capital items, with the 4 exception of, you know, seeing what the adjustments need to 5 be made as a result of the involvement with the City of 6 Kerrville on the Ag Barn project. But if -- if there's 7 anything additional we need to do on that particular issue 8 today, why, it's here and it's available. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we -- and at what point do 10 we need to finalize this? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we're going to combine all 12 of the -- all of the numbers to have a hard, solid number in 13 order to issue our notice, I think that's going to be 14 dependent upon seeing the thrash-out of these costs, of the 15 unknown costs, you know, that we're not familiar with, with 16 respect to the Ag Barn project, right? That, I think, is the 17 biggest hangup we got now. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Mr. Lewis made the 19 comment -- I asked the question this morning if those numbers 20 were incorporated in the number that Bruce and I talked with 21 him about, and he said that they were. And we made the 22 adjustment at our last time we went through this to 23 incorporate those. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: True. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, I think -- you 2-27-12 113 1 know, I don't know what's in here, again, but I think this is 2 okay for the exhibit hall. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we're at two million, 6 plus we have the additional amount of -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 300. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A little under 300; 264,000, I 9 think. So, I mean, that is available too. And the number we 10 got from Peter is less than two million. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For Phase 1. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For Phase 1. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, the essential question 14 that you asked is the next agenda item. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I would -- I would feel more 17 comfortable -- I talked with Bob Henderson last Friday, and I 18 mentioned that -- and he was concerned about the necessity of 19 him being here. I had a discussion earlier in the day with 20 the Auditor, and because of the unknown, I wasn't aware of 21 what Peter had or hadn't rolled in. I -- I told him that 22 because of this question mark that we had outstanding, that I 23 didn't think we were going to be able to -- to nail down the 24 figure today, and didn't see any necessity for him to be 25 here. So, if he's not here, it's because I told him it 2-27-12 114 1 wasn't a necessity for him to be here. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, to me -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd like to have him here -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- when we actually do that 6 nail-down on it. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have some questions 8 about -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question really is related 10 as much to the jail as this, as to if we go with this, how -- 11 and the decision comes in a month or five years, how do we do 12 the jail? We have to have a -- you know, that expenditure, 13 which will happen, in my mind, in the next -- coming year, if 14 not this year, we need to have a plan so that we can do that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I can assure you, 16 Mr. Henderson has also looked at it in terms of two -- of a 17 two-shot deal. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- but I'd really prefer for him 20 to lay that before us before we nail that down and finalize 21 it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to have a special 23 meeting in between? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Check with him, see what his 25 schedule is. 2-27-12 115 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can certainly do that. We 2 can find out when he might be available. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We wouldn't meet until the 4 12th, so that's a long ways. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a long way. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to meet with the -- 7 well, I think we'll probably meet with the City this week, so 8 we'll have a little bit of an idea, make sure we're on the 9 right page, dollar-wise, for the Ag Barn. But I think we 10 need a special meeting. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To move this forward. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll get ahold of him, find out 14 when he's available and check the schedule of all the Court. 15 We'll get it nailed down. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe next Monday, if it 17 works for everybody else. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 5th? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5th. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 21; to consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action to approve order authorizing 24 publication of notice of intention to issue certificates of 25 obligation to finance acquisition of equipment and 2-27-12 116 1 construction or improvement of facilities in the county. 2 That, of course, would be the subject of that special meeting 3 also, I assume, unless somebody has something they want to 4 offer about it right now? Okay. Let's go to Section 4 of 5 the agenda, payment of the bills. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay our bills. 7 That's just me, though. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to pay 11 the bills. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 17 amendments. It appears we have one budget amendment request 18 out of the County Clerk's office to cover some machine 19 repairs, and pretty simple. Do I hear a motion for approval? 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion to approve. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 23 the budget amendment requests. Question or discussion? All 24 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-27-12 117 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Late bills. 4 We have bills to Atmos Energy, which, of course, applies to 5 gas. Central Texas Electric, City of Kerrville utilities, 6 KPUB; that's utilities. And Sprint Communications, I assume 7 that's going to be on somebody's cell phone. Whose cell 8 phone is that, John? 9 MR. TROLINGER: We have one data plan with Sprint. 10 It's the $42-per-month plan. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. TROLINGER: It's a floating card. 13 MS. MABRY: This particular one is Fund 76, which 14 is Juvenile Detention. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Well, I knew the 16 Juvenile Probation had special data phones that are required 17 by the state regulatory agencies in order to do certain 18 reporting required by them, and that are outside the realm of 19 the normal cell phone contract, but I wasn't sure whether 20 that was one or not. Do I hear a motion to approve the late 21 bills as indicated on the late bills summary? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? 2-27-12 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, Judge, let me ask a 2 question here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I've only asked this 5 700, 800 times through the years. Why are these -- why are 6 the City of Kerrville electricity bill, water bill, et 7 cetera, and Sprint Communications and all these folks, why 8 are they late bills? 9 MS. MABRY: We just categorize them as late bills 10 because they're late for being included in the Commissioners 11 Court packet. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why is that? 13 MS. MABRY: Because we receive them through the 14 mail after that is already done, and we're trying to avoid 15 disruption of service or late fees. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and I understand that. 17 Why don't they get them in like everybody else does? 18 MS. MABRY: Well, we just -- when we get them in, 19 we pay them. I mean, it's just a matter of when they come in 20 the mail. 21 MR. TROLINGER: And I can back them up on that, 22 having taken over the phone bills and the data plans. 23 Literally, we get the paper bill, and if we don't we respond 24 that day, we can be late. So, on the phone bills, I've taken 25 everything to electronic notification, and I can get -- I've 2-27-12 119 1 got a comfort level; got a little bit of padding, maybe five 2 days now that I've got it electronically, but it's immediate 3 turnaround or you're late. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like the credit card 6 companies are trying to do, I'm sure, but the Congress won't 7 let them. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe we do have a motion and 10 second on the late bills. 11 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 13 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I have been 18 presented with monthly reports from Kerr County Treasurer for 19 January 2012; District Clerk, January 2012, as amended; 20 County Clerk, January 2012, as amended; Justice of the Peace, 21 Precinct 1 for January 2012; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4 22 for January 2012; and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2 for 23 January 2012, corrected. Do I hear a motion that the 24 indicated reports be approved as submitted? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 2-27-12 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 3 indicated reports being approved as submitted. Further 4 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 5 by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Section 5 of 10 the agenda, reports from Commissioners in connection with 11 their liaison or committee assignments. Commissioner Overby? 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Judge, Commissioners, I just 13 wanted to let the Court know on March 12th, we will have a 14 presentation from our AACOG transportation folks down there. 15 Dean Danos will be here; I know Joe Ramos will be here giving 16 a report. We'll be the first of the counties getting a 17 report on the challenges that we're facing with our 18 transportation program in the county right now for -- for 19 those folks. Also, parks-related as well. One of the -- one 20 of the things that, of course, with gas looking like we're 21 going to see $4.50 or $5.00 -- hopefully we don't see that, 22 but anticipating that, trying to keep up with some of our 23 park improvements, I have on the agenda coming up on the 24 12th, I've been trying to do some things down in the Lions 25 Park in the Center Point area about getting some improvements 2-27-12 121 1 down there. We've been getting a lot of our materials 2 donated down there, and I'll be giving a program at -- a 3 presentation on that request on the 12th coming up in March 4 so that you know that. That's it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? Commissioner Letz? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one thing. We've talked a 7 lot about the East Kerr County project, and talked about 8 working with Kendall County W.C.& I.D. Number 1. They had a 9 front page article in the Comfort News, I guess, this week or 10 last week, and it was extremely pro the project, and 11 explaining to the residents in Kendall County the benefit to 12 them and to Kerr County of doing this, and it was just good 13 to see a very proactive, positive attitude come out of the -- 14 you know, our partner-to-be as this project goes forward. 15 And I just wanted to relay that to the Court. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The full front page of the 18 paper, just about. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What newspaper is that? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort News. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Comfort News. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both pages? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both pages. (Laughter.) 24 That's it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Now he's going to getting nasty. 2-27-12 122 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, he's got to get nasty. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that the old 4 chamber that was used for euthanization at the Animal Control 5 is gone, so anybody that thinks that we're still using it, we 6 are not; it has been removed. And everything out there is 7 working very well with the early morning closures two days a 8 week till 11 o'clock, and that's really positive. I 9 mentioned all the adopted animals; that's pretty phenomenal, 10 to get 32 in a week. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure is, for anybody. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I don't care who you 13 are, Humane Society or Freeman-Fritts or somebody in the 14 western world. That's -- she doesn't really know what 15 happened, but, man, she's been pushing that thing hard, and 16 it's been working well. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I went out and met with 19 the guy that did the environmental assessment, that was doing 20 it, the day he started doing it. We should have that report 21 in within the next few days or week. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If there are any hazards out 24 there that we need to know about before we start demolition. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ag Barn? 2-27-12 123 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. I 6 wanted to ask Number 2 here, the AACOG transportation 7 program, are they coming here to ask us to kick in some 8 money? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, I think I've said that 10 in previous Commissioners -- the concerns right now with gas 11 going up, they have raised our rates. They are going to be 12 here to make a presentation. I would assume that part of 13 their presentation, Commissioner Baldwin, may include some 14 type of possible funding in the next budget cycle to help. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The state and the cuts that 17 they've been having have been in that report, and I think 18 we're going to hear that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's possible. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I have -- on our Agenda 22 Item 1.18 from Commissioner Letz about the county surveyor 23 doing that work, now that he's in the room, I want -- I was 24 wondering if you would say all those ugly things you said 25 about him a while ago. (Laughter.) 2-27-12 124 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can read the record. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it to his face. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can read the record if he 4 wants, for him not showing up. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. That's all I 6 have to report. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all you got? You're talking 8 about Animal Control having a real good success rate on those 9 adoptions. I continue to hear from animal aficionados that 10 the switch-over of our euthanasia process has really been a 11 major plus on perception of the entire operation out there. 12 It's a tough job any way you go, but I think you're getting a 13 lot more support from all of the people that are -- have an 14 interest in that subject, and I think that's helping some 15 also. And I know that Janie has -- has got these agreements 16 with all these other facilities locally and in the area, down 17 to and including Utopia, and is putting these things on all 18 sorts of different networks, working with the various breed 19 rescue groups. And -- and I'm -- I don't know what the 20 euthanasia rate is out there, but based on what's going on, I 21 see it -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Coming down. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- very methodically coming down, 24 which I think is -- is a good thing. And if we're known for 25 doing well in that area, I think -- I think it's -- 2-27-12 125 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a feather in our cap to have. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's positive. It's been a 4 positive all the way around. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Judge, can I bring up 6 one more item? This Supreme Court water deal, I just wanted 7 to bring up how -- particularly in this part of Texas, how, 8 you know, it's a right to capture the water underneath your 9 property. You own it, and you pull it out and you use it how 10 you wish. But in this part of Texas, water moves, and I 11 think that that's going to be the big question. And so I'm 12 asking Commissioner Letz to really keep a close eye on that 13 and get back. That is -- this is one of the most fascinating 14 things that's happened in the state in a long, long time. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's very interesting. I mean, 16 the -- basically, the decision threw out the window the 17 historical usage as a way to determine how much water you 18 got, which never made any sense to me. The fact that you 19 didn't use it shouldn't mean you lose it, to me; I mean, lose 20 your rights to it. And so I think it was an important case, 21 that it makes -- I think, you know, they ruled the right way, 22 based on the little bit of law I know. I certainly don't 23 want to get into practicing law around here. But, important 24 case; I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It truly is. Would you keep 2-27-12 126 1 an eye on it? 'Cause it's going to be challenged. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, they're going to file a motion 4 for rehearing; no question about that. That will be the 5 first thing they'll do. And then they'll probably try and 6 find a way to put it in the federal courts. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Endangered Species Act, 9 I'm sure. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: There's going to be some real 11 creative thinking to get it -- it's state property rights -- 12 to figure out how to get it into federal court. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Been around a long time. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It reminds me a little bit of 15 the -- the school funding debate that goes on at the 16 Legislature all the time. They basically -- all they said is 17 historical usage can't be used, but they didn't say how to do 18 it, how you determine, you know, limiting it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very fascinating. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How about the reports from 21 elected officials and department heads? I'm going to start 22 over here, Ms. Pieper. Nada? John? 23 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick, and in 2-27-12 127 1 looking at the jail issues and trying to look at some other 2 things, I think it would be very advantageous if this Court 3 could start getting involved as early as it is with the 4 possibility of pushing for redrawing the district lines on 5 the 198th and the 216th, and dividing that up. There hasn't 6 been much push, and with the Legislature the way they're 7 doing, to be able to get that done, which could essentially 8 give us double the amount of court days in our district 9 courts, I think somebody needs to take the lead on that and 10 start getting with the other counties and pushing that to get 11 it before this next Legislature. Otherwise, we're not going 12 to get it done; we're going to be sitting here talking about 13 all this same stuff. I haven't seen any -- I've seen a lot 14 of talk, but nobody's taken that to move that forward, and 15 we're able to get the support. I think a lot of people agree 16 on it, that we get it done. I don't think we're going to be 17 able to ease our court problems, as we keep trying to say is 18 a lot of our major jail problems. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, if one of the answers to 20 the problem is that we have a single district court in Kerr 21 County, I guess the first thing we'll need for you to do is 22 to find out which one of our existing judges that reside in 23 this county will offer themselves up to be the sacrificial 24 lamb. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think we -- 2-27-12 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: As soon as you report that back to 2 us, we might be able to move forward on it. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think a lot of us would love 4 to see that. But I think the -- the proposal that I've seen, 5 or that I've heard about that is most talked about would 6 be -- and as was kind of proposed with Edwards County coming 7 in, which would be give the western counties their district, 8 and put the 198th in Kerr and Bandera, and put the 216th in 9 -- well, 216th in Kerr and Gillespie, and then Kendall and 10 Blanco go into their own, which that would double the court 11 days in Kerr, because you're only serving a total of Kerr, 12 Bandera, and Gillespie, and which would -- and that one I've 13 heard, which would not cause that sacrificial lamb, as you 14 put it, having to give up. But it would -- population-wise, 15 it would be supported, and distance-wise, from what I 16 understand, by -- by the way the districting is done, okay? 17 And I think if we don't start on it quickly, you know, we're 18 not going to stand a chance at all of getting that done, 19 which is going to be the biggest assistance in helping the 20 jail overcrowding. That, and some of the things, such as 21 Liberty County is doing, which Rob came up with, and my 22 Chief, some of those, but we've got to start attacking it. 23 Otherwise, we'll just -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When can we talk about this 25 Liberty County thing? 2-27-12 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty quick, Commissioner. I had a 2 discussion with one of the District Judges the very tail end 3 of last week, indicating that -- very interested in taking a 4 hard look at that, and wanted to -- wanted to get the judges 5 involved to have an initial meeting on that, and then see how 6 and in what manner we go forward on it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It looks like a way to 8 reduce numbers in the jail, to me. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. I think it certainly 10 has some -- some promise. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It could definitely reduce 12 some of the numbers, and especially along your misdemeanor 13 lines. But I really think a serious approach in getting the 14 Legislature and everybody already behind the redistricting is 15 going to reduce them more than anything else in -- in the 16 backlog of the cases. But it's going to take somebody, 17 Judge, to -- maybe even be appointed by this Court, to head 18 that up and start pushing that, I don't know, to get with all 19 the other courts and other counties. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: He wants to make a lobbyist out of 21 me, Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I may be a little -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm serious. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a little too much "plain speak" 2-27-12 130 1 to be a very good lobbyist, Rusty. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Rusty has a good point. 4 We probably need to look at that, and we need to -- you know, 5 I don't know about a resolution; I'm not sure how much help 6 that is, but maybe a resolution is the way to set the 7 parameters that we would like to have that, you know, moving 8 forward. Because -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and get the other courts 10 in other those other counties around to start signing off, 11 agreeing, which I think it would be beneficial to every 12 county. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Start with a generic resolution to 14 study this issue of redistricting the judicial districts, so 15 as to -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At least get it off high 17 center. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- get an adequate amount of 19 judicial service to -- mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would go a long ways 21 if we get, you know, everyone on board to help the local 22 Representative and Senator to make headway. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You'll have district judges, 24 district court races coming up. You got Legislature. I 25 mean, it's going to -- it would -- if we wait too long, then 2-27-12 131 1 we're four years out instead of two years out. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Our honorable County 3 Surveyor, the highest vote tallier. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is that. 5 MR. VOELKEL: No, nothing to report. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything you wish to offer today? 7 MR. VOELKEL: Nothing, sir. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Mabry? 9 MS. MABRY: Nothing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin? 11 MR. STANTON: I do. The first six months of this 12 year -- budget year, we've seen an increase of 17 percent in 13 our billings. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 17 percent in what? 15 MR. STANTON: Increase in our billings, the amount 16 we billed out this year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Money. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, yeah. Census increase. 21 MR. STANTON: Yes -- well, actually, the number of 22 kids we've dealt with is -- is almost identical, except that 23 the number of days that the kids are staying has been longer 24 this year. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henneke? 2-27-12 132 1 MR. HENNEKE: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That looks like we've covered 3 everybody, so we will be adjourned. 4 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:07 p.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 9 10 STATE OF TEXAS | 11 COUNTY OF KERR | 12 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 13 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 14 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 15 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 16 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of March, 2012. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 2-27-12