1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, March 5, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 5, 2012 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding asbestos survey performed at the 5 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 4 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding possible judicial redistricting 7 to be presented to 2013 Texas Legislature to achieve more timely and effective disposition 8 of cases in Kerr County 9 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding capital items list for proposed 10 debt issue 17 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve order authorizing publication of 12 notice to finance acquisition of equipment and construction or improvement of facilities 13 in the county 21 14 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to seek legal counsel from County Attorney on 15 issues regarding proposed Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center construction (Executive session) 42 16 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 17 in Executive Session -- 18 --- Adjourned 45 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, March 5, 2012, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted 9 and scheduled for this date and time, Monday, March 5, 2012, 10 at 9 a.m. It's a bit past that now. First off, if there's 11 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 12 on a matter which is not listed on the agenda, this is your 13 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 14 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, please fill out a 15 participation form. There should be some located at the rear 16 of the room. If we get to an agenda item that you've not 17 filled out a participation form and wish to be heard, get my 18 attention; I'll give you the opportunity. But right now, if 19 there's any member of the public or audience that wishes to 20 be heard on any matter which is not a listed agenda item, 21 this is your opportunity to come forward. Seeing no one 22 coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Baldwin, have 23 you got anything for us this morning to start off with? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Overby? 3-5-12 4 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Make sure you set your clocks 2 to spring forward Saturday coming up. It's -- spring's on 3 its way, so keep everybody on the same schedule around here. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, nothing else going on. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think there's anything 8 particular to talk about at the moment. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, no. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get on with our meeting. 14 Item 1 is to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 15 regarding the asbestos survey that was performed at the Hill 16 Country Youth Exhibit Center. Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I got this report, 18 which I forwarded on to everybody else, gave you a copy of 19 it. And looks like we're in good shape except for around the 20 windows, there's some real low-dose asbestos. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Glazing, it appears. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The glazing; that's exactly 23 what it is. So we're going to have to -- in my opinion, 24 we're going to go to a little bit different distribution on 25 our demolition, but that's why it's on the agenda. I know 3-5-12 5 1 that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the -- we have to 5 remediate that little portion. I don't know what that 6 actually means from the standpoint of cost, but I think it 7 doesn't change the rest of the demolition. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to figure out how to 10 get the glazing done according to whatever the state policy 11 is for that. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have to get some licensed 13 person to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or company or whatever. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to go out for 17 -- I mean, Peter would be the one to go out and find 18 somebody, I mean, and get it done. I mean, at least get 19 several quotes and bring it back to us A.S.A.P. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. We can do it, I guess, 21 next Monday. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd put it on the agenda, if we 23 can get it done by then. Peter's not here, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought he would be, but 25 he's not. 3-5-12 6 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But either way, I mean, we can 2 communicate that -- communicate that, from my standpoint, to 3 Peter, get some quotes, and we can have them by Monday. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll work on that. I think 5 we -- I don't think we can just ignore that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, you can't. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That will be an agenda item for next 10 Monday on following up on the asbestos remediation. Anything 11 further on that? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. I just wanted you to be 13 aware. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. I'm 15 stretching the agenda item just a tad, I think, but 16 nevertheless, I want to ask a question. At what point are we 17 going to talk about and know, have the information of each 18 step and how much they cost -- how much it costs and the time 19 frame of it being set in place and all that? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's getting to that 21 point now. I think the demolition is the first part. As 22 soon as we get that done, there's a soil test that has to be 23 done so that we know how much soil has to be removed so 24 Leonard and them can do the -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is -- is our architect 3-5-12 7 1 guy handling all of those -- all those issues? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we hired him for. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so when -- at some 4 point, he's going to walk in here and say, "Okay, we're going 5 to do A, and it costs this, and then we're going to do B, and 6 it costs this much." Are we going to have a schedule like 7 that? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- my thought is 9 probably a little bit piecemeal on some of these things that 10 we're going to handle in-house, and then the -- the actual 11 going out for bid for -- for everything. I mean, the thought 12 is the demolition and the site work will be done in-house, 13 mostly. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But then everything else after 16 that will be -- we'll know the -- we'll have a cost -- we'll 17 have a bid for everything else after that. And the first 18 part of this matter, I mean, it'll be -- now that we know we 19 have asbestos, we need to get the price to get that 20 remediated. I suspect at the same time, we'll get the soil 21 samples to give us an idea. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just kind of piece -- I 24 mean, there's no exact time frame. There's no exact cost 25 yet, but it's just getting to the point to where we're 3-5-12 8 1 finding out what steps we're going to take and how they're 2 going to be done. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly the way I 4 understand it as well. But there's some folks in the 5 community that are beginning to wonder -- I don't know -- 6 "beginning to wonder," that makes it sound funny, but that -- 7 that are wondering. You know, if -- we want to see, step by 8 step, what are we doing here? Where's the plan now? So we 9 can kind of see what the plan is getting to the final 10 product. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, now -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there too; I kind of 13 wonder. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that. The other 15 thing is, we can do it this way and probably save quite a bit 16 of money or we can just say okay, throw it all out there, bid 17 the whole thing, and the bids that come back you're not going 18 to like. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't want to do that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's why it's a little 22 bit slower in the beginning, but it will pick up. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think as soon as we get 24 the -- I mean, this survey was the first step, and the next 25 step's going to really be the cost to remediate that, and 3-5-12 9 1 then the cost to actually do the -- the boring for the -- you 2 know, and the site work, that's not a very big cost. 3 That's -- you know -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The City -- they do it a 5 different way than we're doing it, but we don't have the kind 6 of budget and kind of funds to spend that they normally do. 7 So, it's a little slower in the beginning, but it will get 8 done, and it will be cost-effective, in my opinion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it on that one? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 2; to 12 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding cost of 13 judicial redistricting to be presented to 2013 Texas 14 Legislature to achieve more timely and effective disposition 15 of cases in Kerr County. Appropriate action is probably -- 16 doesn't seem like what's intended here, but my purpose here 17 was to begin the discussion. There are a lot of components 18 to our jail population issue. There are a couple of 19 components that we're starting to look at right now. We've 20 got some bonding issues that we're looking at that -- that 21 are under discussion and consideration right now, and there 22 will be more action on those. Another item, there has been 23 considerable discussion even prior to the last legislative 24 session of realigning the judicial districts that will affect 25 Kerr County. There was, in fact, a proposal made by several 3-5-12 10 1 of the counties that generally comprise the 198th, which, of 2 course, did not pass. The Court remembers the matter being 3 presented to the Court for any input. 4 My -- my purpose is to take a look at and start the 5 discussion with the stakeholders involved, which would be the 6 other counties that would be potentially affected, and 7 representatives from those counties, the judges that would be 8 affected; i.e., our two district judges, plus maybe others, 9 depending upon what the various proposals are. In essence, 10 trying to get all the stakeholders to come into the room, vet 11 the various procedures and so forth. There are a lot of 12 different components to new courts. In particular, the 216th 13 court, when you look at the number of cases that they have on 14 that docket in the four counties, it is just overwhelming. 15 There have been issues about reworking that 216th where it 16 doesn't comprise as many counties, creating a new court to 17 take off some of those, a lot of different proposals. 18 The point is, if we're going to get our name in the 19 hat for the 2013 legislative process for court consideration, 20 we need to start having a discussion with all the 21 stakeholders now, and to be in a position to try and create 22 some sort of consensus that -- that solves the issues and 23 that is something that all the stakeholders can live with. 24 So, my purpose is just wanting to get the discussion started, 25 and that's the reason I put it on the agenda. I suppose I 3-5-12 11 1 could have started talking to anybody about anything, but I 2 wanted the Court to be aware of this one component dealing 3 with the effectiveness of disposition of cases, that that's 4 one other thing that we're looking at as part of this overall 5 jail population issue, and judicial efficiency in general. 6 So -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you see this as -- as 10 likely, at least from our standpoint in Kerr County, having 11 realignments in both the 198th and 216th? Or could you 12 realign one and solve the problem? And the reason I'm asking 13 the question is that, you know, if you get -- you get too 14 many people making the cake, which you could if you get all 15 the counties in the 198th and all the counties in the 216th 16 and those judges, and then some other judges around, well, I 17 don't know how you'd come up with a solution. It seems 18 better if we can kind of come up with a plan, and then maybe 19 try to sell the plan. That may be a better option, since 20 both of the judges are here. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I would agree with you, 22 Commissioner; the -- the fewer players you get in the game, 23 the more likely you are to come up with a unanimous game 24 plan. But when something is done in one district, it 25 necessarily often affects another district, and that's why we 3-5-12 12 1 need to get as many players in the room as possible, so that 2 their druthers can be considered. The northern counties, for 3 example, that are presently in the 198th, they were -- they 4 were quite up-front. They didn't expect to get their new 5 court this last session, but they at least got themselves in 6 the game, and they see a little bit better about, you know, 7 what the game consists of and how they need to go about it, 8 what the considerations are by the O.C.A. numbers and -- and 9 the other considerations that are used. And when you have 10 the effect of one alignment causing some adjustment that's 11 needed in another one, you necessarily need to bring those 12 people in. So, that's part of the process. And it may well 13 be you start out with more than you'd like to have in, and if 14 you can narrow it down, so much the better. But at least you 15 know who all the players are that are going to be affected, 16 because you know as well as I that if you lay a proposal 17 before a -- you have your legislator carry a proposal over 18 there, and it's going to affect somebody else's district, 19 you've got a real problem on your hands. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about if you -- you would 21 get together with all the other county judges and include the 22 district judges in a -- in a meeting to get the input and 23 determine what might be a good course of action and who would 24 want to do what and whether it would require one new district 25 judge for a judicial district or whatever, or what would be 3-5-12 13 1 satisfactory that would please everybody the best you can. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- that's kind of what 3 I'm suggesting, is that -- that I start having those 4 discussions with -- with the other judges in the other 5 counties that might potentially be affected, as well as the 6 district judges that are presently on the benches in those 7 counties, so that we can get all the input, and maybe we can 8 -- maybe we can cobble together a plan that everybody's happy 9 with. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be wonderful. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Which would be highly unusual, but 12 maybe we can get there. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know it won't work 14 unless most everybody agrees. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. Exactly. Particularly the 16 effects of a particular Representative over in the 17 Legislature that -- that doesn't like what's happening in his 18 particular district. So, you got to get those folks on board 19 ultimately too. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's my point. I'd like to 21 see you start doing that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Start moving that forward. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And as well, Judge, the -- 25 of course, irregardless of what you come up with, come up 3-5-12 14 1 with the -- I mean, if you have one meeting and -- and a plan 2 forms itself in that very first meeting, you're still a 3 couple of years out before the Legislature goes into session 4 to be able to deal with it and form all that. So, I think -- 5 I think that we also need to start focusing or talking about 6 meeting about some of the things that we can do; i.e., budget 7 some visiting judges, maybe. You know, we used to have a 8 line item there for -- for these retired judge -- district 9 judges that -- I'm sure Judge Ables has a list of people that 10 would be willing to serve here, and you pay them a little 11 extra to serve in our community, to take some of that load 12 off until we can get the grand plan done. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there are necessarily going to 14 be -- going to be fiscal issues involved with any proposal, 15 and I'm going to be calling on the Auditor after we start 16 seeing what the various proposals are, what the alternatives 17 are, and have her start running some numbers so that we can 18 see what the effect on Kerr County's going to be, 'cause all 19 these other counties are going to be looking at the cost to 20 them. On the visiting judges, unfortunately, most of that 21 used to be state-funded, but if you'll recall here a few 22 years ago, the state allocated a very, very small amount of 23 money for visiting judges, and most of that cost now rests on 24 our shoulders. So, that's another fiscal consideration, as 25 you indicated, that we're going to have to look at as an 3-5-12 15 1 interim solution of -- of trying to keep this problem under 2 control. But -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's certainly worth having 4 a visit about. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. That -- 6 that's part of it during the interim, of course. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I can just -- the -- I 10 looked at some things, and this is just something the Court 11 ought to know, 'cause I do feel that there's a very good 12 possibility you can get all nine counties in the district 13 to -- to come to a consensus. Just to give you an idea of 14 where our district courts stand, population-wise, there are 15 two district courts that overlap in Blanco; in fact, they 16 both serve all four counties, and that's Blanco, Burnet, San 17 Saba, and Llano, okay? They got their second district court 18 in 2005. The total population that those two courts serve 19 combined is 78,000. It's two courts, okay? Ours serves nine 20 counties, with a total population of 150,000. Each of our 21 district courts serve, population-wise, about 15,000 more 22 than the district courts in Bexar County serve, even. That's 23 why we're in such a -- a predicament that we can't move them. 24 And all those nine counties have talked about different 25 things than ours. In just visiting this last week with some 3-5-12 16 1 of them, I really feel it is a good -- it's an opportunity to 2 try and get a consensus going and get that discussion going, 3 whether it's appointing the Judge to talk to them or 4 committees or whatever, but I think it's way, way overdue in 5 Kerr County, and I think it can drastically help our court 6 situation with moving cases through our district courts. 7 Because with some of the ideas coming up, it could just about 8 give us a court here five days a week, which would really 9 help Kerr County's situation. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've also got to take into 11 consideration we just completed a new census. We got some of 12 these counties that have tremendous growth rates, speaking 13 mainly of Bandera and Kendall, so those need to be taken into 14 account. But we need to start the discussion, see what the 15 options are, see what kind of consensus we can build upon 16 with all of the stakeholders, and if we can move this thing 17 forward and -- and get that consensus, and the economics are 18 something that we can all live with, yes, we may have us a 19 solution, assuming we can get our big brother to go along 20 with it. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I did set a meeting -- I 22 have a meeting this Friday with our -- one of our state 23 Representatives to discuss, what would it take? What does 24 the Legislature look at in those -- when they're considering 25 this? 3-5-12 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that one, 2 gentlemen? Let's move to Item 3; to consider, discuss, take 3 appropriate action regarding capital items list for the 4 proposed debt issue. This is another recurring agenda item. 5 My understanding was we had fairly well refined it. I 6 believe two meetings ago, we were in pretty good shape on 7 that, but if there's any more we need to throw out here, 8 let's get it out here. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, there is one. It kind 10 of goes in with probably a little bit in the next item too. 11 I talked with the Sheriff a little bit, and I think related 12 to the jail issue overall, I think we need to set aside money 13 for jail expansion, but not include it in this bond issue at 14 all right now. But in talking with the Sheriff, there are 15 some things that do need to be fixed at the jail, or at least 16 allocated that we can do that I don't think are in our 17 capital items. And we can give you the items, but they're 18 reworking the showers and the boiler, and the renovation of a 19 couple cells, making it more accessible. I think that 20 probably does need to be added, and that's an item -- and, 21 you know, he gave to me a ballpark of 100,000. If we can get 22 it done for 100,000, great. If it's 150, whatever, but I 23 think we do need to start working on some of these things to 24 help there. It's a, you know, partial bandaid, partial -- 25 something we just have to do. That jail's getting old; we 3-5-12 18 1 have to start doing some of these renovations to it to keep 2 it -- keep us in compliance. So, I think we need to look at 3 adding 100,000 to 125,000, 150,000 into the number, and then 4 take the -- you know, on the spreadsheet that Jeannie keeps 5 preparing, get the jail off this spreadsheet for the time 6 being. And -- but just recognize that that's an expenditure 7 that we may have to, and likely will have to do in the next 8 one, two, three, four, five years, and we need to plan for 9 that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If my recollection serves me 11 correctly, Commissioner, I think the boiler is already in 12 there. It's not? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Took that out? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was taken out. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a major maintenance issue 17 there? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think that's going to 19 be, cost-wise, as major as some of the others. The boiler, I 20 think Tim had in there about 12,000? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Something like that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the boiler, to replace it. 23 It does need to be replaced, okay. The other issue I think 24 we have is the -- it kind of sounds simple, but it's the rust 25 in the shower areas, 'cause those are steel showers, not 3-5-12 19 1 stainless. I do not recommend -- like what Jail Commission 2 wanted to us do is change them out to all stainless showers. 3 Even coming from T.D.C., stainless showers are about $3,400 a 4 piece before installation. And I have 44 showers inside that 5 facility, okay? I don't think we can do that. If there's a 6 way we can go in from about a foot, two foot above the floor 7 area, the shower pan area, and refinish those somehow that it 8 is kind of inmate-proof and nontoxic, we'll have to look at 9 some of that stuff to be able to solve that issue. You know, 10 I couldn't tell you what that would cost. We have to look at 11 all those issues, but there are 44 of them; that does need to 12 be budgeted for. And the other thing, even if we can get the 13 redistricting or some of that stuff going, which is a must or 14 we're going to have to add on a whole lot sooner, but one of 15 the things that we do have an issue with is -- is we've all 16 talked about the female housing. If we can go ahead and make 17 some of the renovations that Mr. Gondeck had recommended on 18 -- on knocking a hole in the -- two of the current male cells 19 where they can get -- become versatile for male or female, 20 depending on the population, most likely when you do that, 21 'cause you're adding a safety vestibule, it's going to cut me 22 down at least two -- two to four male beds because of the 23 square footage inside the cell that that safety vestibule's 24 going to cut out of that cellblock. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have numbers to put 3-5-12 20 1 in -- to put in the deal? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This all came up -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, are we going to sit 4 here and talk about this all day long? Let's get it done. 5 You need to come up with numbers, Rusty. Don't just stand up 6 there and talk about it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, this all came up in the 8 last week. One thing you've got -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're wasting time here; I 10 can tell you that. You need to put this thing together, and 11 so we can plug it in here. It's not something just to sit 12 around and talk about. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's not. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've got to have -- have 15 numbers. So, are we going to put this off some more now so 16 we can talk about his numbers? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to get the best estimate 18 we can, Commissioner, and -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's get it done; let's 20 quit talking about it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- get it to the Auditor. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think with Mr. Gondeck, he 23 had estimated somewhere around 10,000 on those two cells, and 24 I don't know on the showers. 10,000 each on those two cells. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's work on getting the best 3-5-12 21 1 estimates we can, okay? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything more on that? I don't 4 suppose you got anything more, do you, Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't think so. Okay, let's go to 7 Item 4; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve order authorizing publication of notice of intention 9 to issue certificates of obligation to finance acquisition of 10 equipment and construction or improvement of facilities in 11 the county. Again, a recurring item. I don't know that 12 we're ready to do this yet, because we're still collecting 13 some numbers, but the good news is we have our financial 14 adviser here that has been working with the Auditor to 15 massage some more numbers and some more angles and options, 16 and I believe we've split out all the other capital items 17 from the -- from the actual jail expansion issue, and so why 18 don't we let our financial adviser give us some information 19 on what he's come up with as a result of these modifications. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Well, thank you, Judge. As always, 21 it's a pleasure to be before the Kerr County Commissioners 22 Court. My name's Bob Henderson; I'm managing director of RBC 23 Capital Markets, and I have the honor of being the County's 24 financial adviser. As you were just discussing, the numbers 25 continue to be in flux. I can tell you that the last time I 3-5-12 22 1 was here in person, I had kind of, on the back of a napkin, 2 articulated that I felt like we could do up to five and a 3 half million dollars without an immediate tax rate increase. 4 The last spreadsheet that Ms. Hargis put together for me, at 5 least -- I hesitate to use the word "last" one, 'cause it's 6 an ever-evolving one, spreadsheet. We had looked at a total 7 of nine and a half million dollars worth of improvements, 8 which included a $3.4 million estimate for that jail, and 9 $6.1 million for virtually everything else besides that jail. 10 We were able to run the numbers based on the current net 11 taxable assessed valuation of the county. 12 Ms. Hargis and I discussed what might be reasonable 13 projections for growth in that tax base. Last year, the tax 14 base grew approximately 1 percent. There are a lot of 15 macerations that have to take place because of the impact of 16 the over-65 freeze on the values in this county, but the 17 bottom line is -- is that we did run some scenarios where we 18 believe that we can go out and issue the $6.1 million now 19 with no appreciable impact in your I & S tax rate. For 20 edification, your current interest and sinking fund tax rate 21 is 4.81 cents. My model comes up with 4.91 cents, and 22 Ms. Hargis and I were understanding -- you know, discussing, 23 trying to understand why her -- she came up with 4.81; I came 24 up with 4.91. We're talking about one-tenth of a penny, and 25 the difference is that Ms. Hargis' budget includes delinquent 3-5-12 23 1 tax collections and penalties and interest, which is money 2 that I did not include in my model. 3 So, effectively, for that same I & S tax rate, 4 utilizing capitalized interest and utilizing, to draw down 5 spending, some I & S funds that have been already collected 6 for a debt that was paid off this year, we do believe that we 7 can do 6.1 million within the same effective tax rate that 8 you currently have. It's a little more than the five and a 9 half we talked about. As we add a little bit more money, 10 that pressure increases, but I want to reiterate that that is 11 a one-year time pressure. Your debt service falls 12 dramatically, about $300,000 in 2014, and then it goes away 13 entirely in 2017. So, the debt of the county is very, very 14 modest; very, very manageable. It's just that because it's 15 so short, we have a little bit of a tax rate impact. Once we 16 get past the tax rate impact of 2013, then we're comfortable 17 that we can come back and issue the additional three and a 18 half million or $3.4 million for a jail expansion, and still 19 stay within the auspices of the current I & S tax rate of 20 approximately -- I call it a nickel. Ms. Hargis is more 21 precise than I am; she keeps reminding me that it's slightly 22 less than a nickel. But I'd be happy to answer any questions 23 you might have about that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bob, you ran through this 25 real fast. 3-5-12 24 1 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of this 6.1 million, how 3 many of those things that Rusty's adding this morning, the 4 rusty floor or whatever all that was, how much of that is in 5 the 6.1 million? 6 MR. HENDERSON: I'd have to defer to Ms. Hargis. 7 MS. HARGIS: Nothing. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: There's nothing. 9 MS. HARGIS: Nothing. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So if we want to add -- if 11 we adopt what we've decided so far, and the 6.1 million, and 12 to add anything that Rusty's concerned about, then we're 13 talking about a tax increase? 14 MR. HENDERSON: Well -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, is that, in plain 16 English, the way we do it? 17 MR. HENDERSON: No, sir, because I can still -- I 18 can still have some room in the tax rate -- I mean the 19 interest rate environment to build additional -- what we call 20 capitalized interest. Right now, interest rates are 21 phenomenally low, 1967-era low. We're talking about a 22 transaction that, in all likelihood, would be less than three 23 and a quarter percent interest, and possibly less than three 24 percent interest. We would be looking at -- to the extent 25 that we had to add additional money to the $6.1 million, we 3-5-12 25 1 start paying that principal back in 2014, and so the impact 2 in 2013, which is where we have the pressure on our tax rate, 3 is literally just the interest on that money. So, if we had 4 to add, you know, another $100,000, to use Commissioner Letz' 5 number, you know, we're talking about another $3,100 maybe in 6 interest for 2013, so we can manage that. Don't want to go 7 crazy with it, but we can manage it. We can manage something 8 additional -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We just need to decide how 10 crazy we want to get. 11 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. Well, I shouldn't have 12 used the word "crazy" about it. We just have to be 13 cognizant -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't normally use it 15 either. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So, going from 6.1 to six and 17 a quarter, it's -- 18 MR. HENDERSON: That's manageable, yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Very good. Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, how do we go 21 about getting those things? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, at this point, don't we 23 go out there for our intent? And if we went at six and a 24 quarter for the intent, and then we would wait until, between 25 Rusty and Tim, they come up with the numbers for that, then 3-5-12 26 1 we can cut it back a little bit. We just can't exceed the 2 six and a quarter, correct? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We've got some other things. 4 What other things are coming with this? 5 MS. HARGIS: We have cost of issuance. We don't 6 have the cost of issuance in there. We need to really -- the 7 intent needs to be higher, just -- just in case it 8 fluctuated. If we don't put out there a little bit more, and 9 we have to come back, that's going to be a disaster. It's 10 better to put out the intent to be 6 million, 7, and we come 11 in at 6 million, 3. Because we don't want to have to go back 12 out there and republish; it's like a nightmare. So, you're 13 going to have to go a little higher, knowing full well, but 14 you just have too many variables. And because of our 15 publication time frame, we -- we need to get it out there if 16 you're going to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is the 6.1 based on the 19 issuance cost we were basing it around about, like, six and a 20 half? Is that what we were looking at? 21 MS. HARGIS: We didn't -- we hadn't figured the 22 cost. 23 MR. HENDERSON: The cost on a transaction that 24 size, Commissioner, should not be more than a hundred, a 25 hundred and a quarter. 3-5-12 27 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 2 MR. HENDERSON: Including underwriter's spread. 3 But Ms. Hargis was right, and Commissioner Letz is also 4 right; the number that we put in the notice of intent is a 5 not-to-exceed number. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Cap. 7 MR. HENDERSON: When you come back to actually 8 approve the authorization, you will put a number in concrete, 9 so to speak. But the notice of intent number is simply a 10 not-to-exceed number. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting, Ms. Hargis, 6.75? 12 MS. HARGIS: Or seven. I mean, I want to leave us 13 enough room. You know, even though we're not going to do it, 14 because we don't know what's out there at the Ag Barn, if you 15 make it too tight and we have to go back, you've got the 16 whole 30-day publication problem again. Then the 6.1 is kind 17 of rounded out; it's really closer to 6.40; you know, there's 18 another 40,000 there. So, you know, it's one of those 19 things, it's better to be safe than sorry. I've talked to 20 some of the other auditors who've had to go back and redo, 21 and it's not -- it's not pretty. You know, I think that the 22 newspaper can report that we're going out here -- just 23 because we don't have a firm number on the jail, we don't 24 have a firm number exactly on the Ag Barn, we know -- we know 25 approximately. But we've had -- you know, it goes up and 3-5-12 28 1 down. It's kind of like when we did the annex; we put a 2 million, five, and we came in at a million. But it's better 3 to be safe than sorry, because I don't think that right in 4 the middle of the project, we don't have any money, and 5 especially in the summertime when our taxes are not being 6 collected any more, that we have to wait on the issue. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis, would you -- you 8 or Mr. Henderson remind me of why we have to do it right now, 9 as opposed to waiting until we get those firm numbers that 10 you're talking about, the Ag Barn and jail? 11 MS. HARGIS: It's a 30-day -- it's -- actually, 12 it's 45 days, isn't it, Bob? 13 MR. HENDERSON: Effectively, it's a 45-day. The 14 answer, Commissioner, is just, really, when does the Court 15 want to break ground on some improvements? When does it need 16 to break ground on improvements? Under the Certificate of 17 Obligation Act of 1979, as amended a dozen times, as you can 18 imagine, you have to -- you have to give notice of intent to 19 issue through Commissioners Court action, and then you have 20 to publish the first of those two publications in a newspaper 21 of local circulation not less than 30 days before you come 22 back to authorize it. So, between the court date and the 23 actual publication and then your next record court date, as a 24 practical matter, that 30-day notice period turns into 40, 45 25 days. And then you have to give the Attorney General's 3-5-12 29 1 office another 30 days to review all the documents and clear 2 you to close, so from the time the Commissioners Court gives 3 notice of intent to issue until money can actually be 4 deposited into the commission -- or into the Kerr County's 5 bank accounts so that you can proceed with your project is 6 going to be at a minimum of about 70 days, and could be 80, 7 85 days. So, when you give notice of intent, Commissioner, 8 it really just depends on when you and the Court as a whole 9 is going to be ready to break ground -- ready to let 10 contracting and break ground. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just seems to me that 12 there's wisdom in knowing -- in knowing what the overall plan 13 is and the details, you know, how much this is going to cost 14 and -- you know, it's more important to me to know those 15 things, and the public to know what we're doing, than it is 16 for us to set a ground-breaking date out there. 17 MR. HENDERSON: I would not disagree, but that's a 18 decision of the Court. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The ground-breaking date to 20 me is not important at all. It's way down the list. But 21 this -- the ability to know how much everything costs, and 22 the general public, the taxpayers of the community, to know 23 exactly what we're doing is much more important to me. 24 That's just me. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, the only question 3-5-12 30 1 I have is, I don't -- I mean, it seems that we've done that, 2 except for -- the only thing we haven't is the new thing, is 3 Rusty's deal, and we have quotes from the architect. We have 4 every -- I mean, Trolinger. I mean, the big-ticket items, 5 all the items. Road and Bridge has an item-by-item of their 6 equipment. Trolinger has his -- you know, what he needs per 7 year based on that. I mean, seems like we've gone through in 8 as much detail as we can, you know, other than -- 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Rusty's. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Rusty's thing. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't think that we 12 know how much everything at the Ag Barn costs. We have some 13 estimated numbers. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're not going to know 15 till we get a bid. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't -- so you want to go 19 out for bids and then do the bond issue? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So the -- the Ag Barn and 21 the jail issues, we just simply don't -- don't -- Rusty, move 22 back over a little bit so I can look at the Auditor. So -- 23 you're so pretty today. (Laughter.) To have -- I mean, we 24 don't have those firm numbers. He just said that. 25 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. I'm sure we can 3-5-12 31 1 probably get his in a week or so. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm stuck in the same 3 situation Jonathan says, Buster. There's no way I can give 4 you firm numbers on what the renovation's going to cost 5 without going out for bids on it first, okay? I -- you know, 6 I mean, I could sit here, I think, comfortably and tell you 7 just what Jonathan did; 100 to 150, you know, will cover all 8 those deals. But I can't give you any firm numbers. There's 9 no way to until we go out for bids. Gondeck gave you the 10 overall, and that's what we were looking at, but now if we 11 can do this other, we're all a lot better off. You know, if 12 my liaison wants to gets involved and try and help us get 13 those numbers, I would sure appreciate that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sounds like he did 15 this morning. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're the liaison. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I know it. Well, it's 18 just me. I mean, I'm just telling you; I'm not trying to 19 hold anything up. I'm just telling you that I just think 20 it's a better thing to have -- have all of our details 21 together before we pull the trigger on the bond stuff. 22 MR. HENDERSON: Well, and I might -- just for 23 clarification of my remarks, I agree that we should have 24 details and -- and plans and know what we're doing, but I 25 guess in my vernacular, you know, details include being 3-5-12 32 1 satisfied with reasonable estimates by engineers and 2 architects and -- and the like. As a -- I'm not a lawyer, 3 and I don't see our lawyer in here, but as -- as a rule, you 4 know, the Commissioners Court probably -- I'm going to 5 practice law without a license, as the Judge has often heard 6 me say. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Once more. 8 MR. HENDERSON: Once more. You know, as a rule, 9 you don't want to go out and -- and hire an architect or an 10 engineer to put plans and specs together, and then put those 11 things out for bid until -- until you've got a mechanism or 12 way in which to pay for it. Otherwise, you're going to get 13 bids in here, and we're going to have -- you know, if you 14 wait till the bids are in here, we're going to have, again, 15 70 -- 75 to 90 days to get money in the bank. Now you're 16 asking the people that have submitted the bids to hold those 17 bids for probably 100 days before you can definitively 18 execute them, 'cause you don't have money in the bank to 19 honor the agreements. So, I think the point's -- I think 20 everybody's saying kind of the same thing. I think maybe the 21 difference is -- is what's your definition of "details"? Are 22 they, you know, reasonable estimates, reasonably firm 23 estimates from qualified professionals? Or are they actually 24 bids? And I have to agree with Commissioner Letz. Waiting 25 until we get bids can be problematic because of how long 3-5-12 33 1 you'd have to ask these people that are submitting the bids 2 to hold them until you could actually secure financing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You'd probably have some difficulty. 4 If you put that in as part of your bid specs, that any bid 5 submitted will be required to be good for 120 days, for 6 example, then you'd probably have a hard time getting folks 7 to give you firm bids without a bunch of bailouts in there. 8 MR. HENDERSON: Well, you know, bailouts, or 9 they're just going to bid high enough to cover themselves for 10 the risk of changing petroleum and steel prices and so forth. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I spent two months 12 getting estimates from reputable companies, and what we've 13 got put into this is adequate to cover the projects. I 14 didn't just pull those numbers out of the sky. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter gave us numbers. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Peter gave us some, but they 17 were somewhat excessive. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you for the 20 conversation. I mean, I feel better. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And we weren't wasting time on that 22 one, were we? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know about 24 that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 3-5-12 34 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I -- the bottom line 2 is, what I heard Bob say is, "I love you, however..." 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know. So -- 5 MR. HENDERSON: I love you unconditionally, 6 Commissioner. (Laughter.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It doesn't get any better than that, 8 does it, Commissioner? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I do -- I will agree 11 with Commissioner Baldwin on one point. I mean, the 12 Auditor -- we started out at 6.1, then we got up to 6.2. 13 Then all of a sudden, we're going out at six point -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seven. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- seven. That's 500,000. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's way high. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we're talking about the 18 issuance cost being 125,000. So, I mean, it seems to me -- I 19 mean, we need to have it sufficient, but if we're -- we can't 20 narrow it down better than 500,000, -- 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we'll wait a week until we 23 can. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, the 500,000, if you add -- 25 you're adding 275,000 right now, so if you add 275 -- 3-5-12 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 275? We're at 100 for the jail 2 and 125 -- 3 MS. HARGIS: 150 for the jail, 'cause the number 4 fluctuated. I'd rather go on the high side than the low 5 side. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 100 for the jail. 7 MS. HARGIS: And then 125; that's 275. We're not 8 sure about the cost of issuance; could get a little bit of 9 fluctuation there, because we've got -- we need to be sure we 10 have enough money there. You're at 6.1; add 275 and you're 11 at 6.375, so 6.7 isn't really 500,000. 6.8 is your 500,000. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that 500,000 -- I don't 13 understand why we need 500,000 there, I guess is what I'm 14 saying. 15 MS. HARGIS: It's a safety net. I mean, you can do 16 whatever you want to do. But if we have to republish, then 17 you're going to delay another 30 days. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we have to, rather than 19 republish, we can cut. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go. I like that 21 plan. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan -- 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So you can still adjust, 24 right? 25 MS. HARGIS: Well, it needs to be at least 6.5, 3-5-12 36 1 because you don't -- you definitely don't know exactly what 2 his costs are going to be, and you don't know exactly what 3 the cost of issuance -- we've got an estimate there. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the three issues on the 5 jail, the boiler, Tim got a price of 12,000. 6 MS. HARGIS: We had 80 in there originally. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that's -- that was for all 8 the stuff, but the boiler itself, Tim -- 9 MR. BOLLIER: It was right at 12,000, 11,800 and 10 some -- 11 MS. HARGIS: That's no installation, though, isn't 12 it? 13 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: One at a time, please. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you then took -- you got 44 16 showers in that jail. To revamp each shower, if you went on 17 the high side and said $1,000, okay, that's 44,000, plus your 18 12,000. And if you took what Gondeck told us on renovating 19 those two cells, right around 10,000 each on putting in that, 20 that's another 20,000 on that, okay? So, I think Jonathan is 21 very accurate and very high -- you know, it would give them 22 some leeway on 100,000 for those projects in the jail, which 23 would cover that if we're not going to add on to 48 beds and 24 that. 25 MS. HARGIS: That's still at 6.5. You're only 3-5-12 37 1 having about 100,000, 125,000 in play. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By my math, it's 175, but who's 3 counting? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You obviously are. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 6 MR. BOLLIER: The bid on the boiler that I got was 7 for everything. That's for them to come in, put it in, take 8 the old one out, haul it off. That was for everything. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess at this point, 10 gentlemen, do we want to nail down a not-to-exceed number on 11 a notice of intent? If not, why, we'll reset this thing for 12 next Monday. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm ready to do it, a 14 not-to-exceed number. I'll make a motion and see where it 15 goes -- may not go anywhere -- to authorize publication of 16 notice of intention to issue certificates of obligation to 17 finance acquisition of equipment and construction of 18 improvements, facilities in the county in an amount not to 19 exceed 6.5 million. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 22 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I have no problem 24 with that. The -- and there's still room and time to 25 negotiate some of those things inside there. 3-5-12 38 1 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. You can negotiate inside 2 until the day we sell. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 MS. HARGIS: Well, till we publish. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Well, actually -- actually, when we 6 publish the notice, it's going to state what the stated 7 purposes are, and basically, as Commissioner Letz just lined 8 -- laid them out, so really, until you spend the money, you 9 can make adjustments, so long as what you're spending money 10 on falls within the stated use of the proceeds as in the 11 publication. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: He's saying -- I think his question is 14 the amount of the money can be reduced. That is a 15 not-to-exceed number. It can be lowered. 16 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, the dollar number can be lower 17 in terms of what you actually spend it on, as long as it 18 falls within the defined use of proceeds. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The actual bids can be less 20 than what we've -- 21 MR. HENDERSON: Exactly. So, if the bid comes in 22 less on one item, it may give you a little extra leeway to 23 spend more money on a different item that's within the stated 24 purposes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say we do this today, and 3-5-12 39 1 then what is -- what is our -- do we have a date sitting out 2 there that we actually -- where we pull the trigger? 3 MR. HENDERSON: It would -- I need to get my 4 calendar. It's going to need to be a date -- if we do it 5 today, you're going to be able to publish this Saturday? And 6 this Saturday is going to be -- I'm sorry. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: The 10th. 8 MS. HARGIS: We usually have to give two days 9 notice -- well, if we do the paper that we have talked 10 about, -- 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Be Wednesday. 12 MS. HARGIS: -- it would be next Wednesday before 13 we can publish. 14 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. So, next Wednesday is going 15 to be the 14th. 16 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. HENDERSON: So, 30 days after the 14th is going 18 to be April the 14th, which falls on a Saturday. So, the 19 third week of -- of April -- you meet on the third Monday? 20 MS. HARGIS: Fourth Monday. 21 MR. HENDERSON: Fourth Monday, so we'd be talking 22 about selling on Monday, the 23rd of April, which means that 23 we're talking about closing, putting money in the bank about 24 the 20th of May. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 30 days. 3-5-12 40 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thirty days after. 2 MR. HENDERSON: Part of the motion, Commissioner, 3 would be to give notice of intent to sell on April the 23rd. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll amend the motion to add 5 that date. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: On or about? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On or about. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll include the second on 9 that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go back, Jeannie? You 11 said we can't -- today's Monday. They can't get it in this 12 Wednesday? 13 MS. HARGIS: I'll try, but I don't know. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying we can move it up a 15 week, so the -- 16 MR. HENDERSON: We could, but actually, the law's 17 going to require -- here I go practicing law again without a 18 license, but the law's going to require that we publish 19 notice of intent, and the newspaper has got to give a date 20 certain that we're going to come back to meet. So, it can't 21 be "on or about" the 23rd. It needs to be the -- you know, 22 the 23rd. Now, what we can do is, on the 23rd, we can, you 23 know, take Commissioners Court action to table it, but we do 24 need to have a date in the notice specifically, and if the 25 23rd is your regular meeting date -- 3-5-12 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to be a regular meeting. 2 MR. HENDERSON: I would recommend that we do that 3 date. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, April the 23rd, we 6 approve this thing. That is -- that means that that's the 7 end of negotiations. That's the end of fluctuations, et 8 cetera. 9 MR. HENDERSON: In terms of the dollar price of the 10 debt being issued, in terms of what you use the money for, 11 you still have leeway. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 13 MR. HENDERSON: In terms of actual amounts of debt 14 being issued, it will be definitively set on the 23rd. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you can negotiate as to 16 the amount of money up to the 23rd. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm looking for. 19 Thank you. 20 MS. HARGIS: And how much we're going to sell. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It can always come down some. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 23 the motion? The motion to include the consideration of -- of 24 actually setting the sale on the 23rd of April of this year. 25 MR. HENDERSON: In an amount not to exceed 6.5 3-5-12 42 1 million, is the motion. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 6.5. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 6.5 includes some of 4 Rusty's stuff. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 100,000. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: There's an allowance for 8 approximately 150,000 there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Further question 10 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now let's go 16 to Item 5; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to seek 17 legal counsel from County Attorney on issues regarding 18 proposed Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center construction. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know where Rob is. 20 He might be in court. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I notice that the County Attorney's 22 not present. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need him. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got Bob. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thanks, Bob. 3-5-12 43 1 MR. HENDERSON: Thanks, guys. No, I only do law on 2 bond stuff. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: See you. Take care. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Henderson. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding is he's tied up 7 upstairs with some matters, and -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Recess? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it's -- you know, we got two 10 options. We can recess until he's available today, or we can 11 take this matter up on next Monday's agenda. I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we need to talk about 13 it today, I think. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I think we can do it with 17 your assistance as well as the County Attorney's in executive 18 session, to talk about the things -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we don't need the County 20 Attorney? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I don't think -- I 22 mean, it's not totally essential, but I'd like to have him. 23 But if we can't, we might try -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go into recess, then, 25 subject to recall of the chair, and when the County 3-5-12 44 1 Attorney's available, we'll bring this matter up. So, at 2 this time, we'll be in recess subject to the call of the 3 chair. 4 (Recess taken from 9:55 a.m. to 10:22 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if 7 we might. We were in recess until we could get the proper 8 parties here. Let me recall Item 1.5. Consider, discuss, 9 take appropriate action to seek legal counsel from Kerr 10 County Attorney on issues regarding proposed Hill Country 11 Youth Exhibit Center construction. That particular item is 12 an item that needs to be considered in executive session? 13 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this time, we will go out 15 of open or public session at 10:23 for the purpose of going 16 into executive or closed session to consider the agenda item. 17 (The open session was closed at 10:23 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 18 is contained in a separate document.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is 10:47, and we'll now go 21 into open or public session. Any member of the Court have 22 anything to offer with regard to matters considered in 23 executive or closed session? Hearing nothing in that regard, 24 any other matters to come before the Court today under the 25 special meeting agenda? We'll be adjourned. 3-5-12 45 1 MS. GRINSTEAD: Wait a minute. You need to amend 2 that order to say 9:30. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 4 MS. GRINSTEAD: We need the order amended to say 5 9:30 on the April 23rd -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It's there. 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy, the April 23rd meeting at 9 9:30 a.m. 10 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 10:24 a.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 6th day of March, 2012. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 3-5-12