1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, April 9, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X April 9, 2012 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to drop private road 3039 NW name, and rename 5 private road Rose Juniper Trail NW, Pct. 4 10 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize participation in Texas Remote 7 Interpreter Project through Office of Court Administration 11 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 address possibility of prohibiting the sale or use of restricted fireworks; i.e., “skyrockets 10 with sticks” and “missiles with fins” in any portion of unincorporated area of Kerr County 11 pursuant to L.G.C. 352.051 for Cinco de Mayo 13 12 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize appraisal for right-of-way acquisition 13 on Lane Valley 14 14 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to extend use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 15 Center by Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce from August 6-12, 2012, for Kerr Fest 2012 19 16 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 17 regarding inspection report by TCEQ of Ingram Lake Dam 24 18 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 19 accept and award bid for OSSF installations under Grant No. 710065 to Arturo Alva 27 20 1.7 Consider/discuss approve Small Purchase Pro- 21 curement Records for Kerr County OSSF Grant #710065; authorize County Judge to sign same 28 22 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 approve immediate conversion to GPS technology for Kerr County law enforcement radio system 24 synchronization 29 25 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to hire attorney John Carlton for ESD process 36 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) April 9, 2012 2 PAGE 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 Mass Gathering Permit submitted by Kerrville Music Festival 45 4 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 ban all glass containers in Kerr County parks 47 6 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a resolution regarding an Aqua Texas 7 proposed rate increase 51 8 1.13 Presentation regarding pilot project for new medical innovation between Peterson Regional 9 Medical Center, Methodist Hospital of Houston, Texas, and Schreiner University; request for 10 resolution in support of same 81 11 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing for County Clerk's Records 12 Archival Plan for 2012/13 budget cycle for May 14, 2012, at 10:45 a.m. 104 13 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 authorize County Surveyor to locate various structures and utilities presently not identified 15 on survey of Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center property; work to be done prior to construction 105 16 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 determine actual amount of certificate of obligation which is to be sold by Kerr County 18 on April 23, 2012 109 19 4.1 Pay Bills 117 4.2 Budget Amendments 119 20 4.3 Late Bills 121 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 122 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 22 Assignments 122 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 125 23 --- Adjourned 128 24 25 4 1 On Monday, April 9, 2012, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, April 9, 2012, at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. If you would, please, if you'd stand, join me in a 12 moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance to the 13 flag of our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 18 of the public or audience that wishes to be heard on any 19 matter which is not a listed agenda item, this is your 20 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 21 If wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that you 22 fill out a participation form located at the rear of the 23 room. That helps me to know that there is someone wishing to 24 be heard on that item. It's not absolutely essential. If we 25 get to an agenda item that you wish to be heard, and have not 4-9-12 5 1 filled out a participation form, feel free to get my 2 attention in some manner; I'll give you that opportunity. 3 But right now, any member of the public or audience that 4 wishes to be heard on any matter which is not a listed agenda 5 item, come forward and tell is what's on your mind. If you 6 would give us your name and address, please. 7 MR. HINTON: My name is Bill Hinton; I'm the 8 Executive Director of Y.M.C.A. Camp Flaming Arrow out in 9 Hunt, and I just actually came here to say thank you to the 10 Commissioners Court for the bridge that is -- we're in the 11 cleanup stage, but it is wonderful. It's nice and wide. It 12 fits in with -- with everything that -- you know, it doesn't 13 look out of place at all. It made it through the flood that 14 we had just a little -- I mean, they finished it, and it 15 flooded right over. And -- but I just want to say thank you 16 guys for -- for doing this. It will truly help the children 17 that we serve and the participants we serve, and I just want 18 to take the opportunity to say thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It's been how many years since that 21 thing was needed with those tight corners? 22 MR. HINTON: Well, man, I tell you, it was built in 23 1931, I believe. I mean -- and, you know, there were pieces 24 that kind of fell off as buses fell off, and -- you know. 25 But we're just -- we're so pleased with -- with what it looks 4-9-12 6 1 like. And my neighbors, the Junkins, are very pleased as 2 well. We look forward to getting rid of that blind corner 3 that -- that I know is on the schedule. So, thank you guys 4 very much. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty soon, yeah. 6 MR. HINTON: Great. I just want to say thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. Any 8 other member of the public or audience that wishes to be 9 heard on a matter not listed on the agenda? Seeing no one 10 else seeking to be recognized, we'll move on. Commissioner 11 Baldwin, do you have anything for us this morning? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I do. I wanted to 13 direct your attention towards the Kerrville Daily Times. 14 Last week -- I don't know what's going on in there this week, 15 but they -- they do a little poll thing in there, and they're 16 talking about what do you think is the way to fund the 17 T-hangars at the airport? And I just think that is something 18 that we, as a body, need to keep an eye on and watch, because 19 the public is, in a huge way, saying that it needs to be 20 funded with private moneys. So, that's all. Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Commissioner 22 Overby? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioners, I just wanted 24 to give an update on our parks this weekend. First of all, I 25 want to give a word of thanks to our Maintenance Department, 4-9-12 7 1 Mr. Bollier. The parks absolutely looked great this weekend, 2 and they were packed this weekend. Just want you to know 3 that they look great. I want to thank our Sheriff's 4 Department, our off-duty personnel, "Here's to the Heroes" 5 event on Saturday. I was out there a few hours on Saturday 6 participating in that event. I tell you, I participated as 7 one of the judges of the chicken area out there, and the food 8 was just absolutely fantastic. But just to report to the 9 Commissioners, this is going to be a growing event for our 10 community. It was a good thing. I saw tons of families out 11 there; they had a great time. Had lots of folks walk up and 12 just say that they just were enjoying it. And I guess just 13 another reminder; our money that we spend on our parks is 14 good money spent, and as our gas is going to go up to $4, $5 15 a gallon -- we hope it doesn't go that high, but the money 16 that we put back in our parks for our citizens is really 17 important. Thank you, Maintenance Department and everybody 18 that was involved this weekend. Nothing but good, positive 19 news. That's it, Judge. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything 22 other than the couple of the agenda item that I'll be talking 23 about on the agenda. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I guess I should report 4-9-12 8 1 about meeting with the architect last week, being as we're 2 not really talking about plans and stuff on the Ag Barn 3 today. And we -- I had Steve Bauer with me, and we, I think, 4 finalized the last few little tiny changes that needed to be 5 made to the plan, all within the scope of the work that we've 6 approved. Met with KPUB and also an electrician, talked 7 about the power we're having to move and relocate so that we 8 can -- can demolish the old building. And also, talked to 9 Gene Williams about -- we have a well out there that we're 10 going to have to plug, about how we go about that. He's 11 going to help me with that. We don't have to have a permit, 12 but we do have to contact the state, and he'll help us do 13 that as well. And so Tim's getting a price on getting 14 air-conditioners moved, which is not much, so we're moving 15 along, and hope to have some plans before too long when Peter 16 -- you know, so it will be set to not only give Leonard the 17 go-ahead on tearing it down, but also to be going out for 18 bids hopefully sometime in May. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I was out at the event at the 23 Flat Rock Park too for a while on Saturday. Seemingly, that 24 crowd was much larger than any crowd that we've had in years 25 past. 4-9-12 9 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I was -- I was out there mostly 3 before noon and a little bit after, so I know that the 4 potential for the crowd building in the afternoon was much 5 greater, and I'm sure it did. But everyone seemed to be 6 having a great time, and liked all the events that were going 7 on, and lots of folks having a good time. I was told that 8 based upon the number of cooks that were entered in the 9 competition out there, since it had exceeded a threshold 10 number that was required, it could be classified as a state 11 competition. So, it has grown to that extent, only in -- 12 just in that part, so looks like it's -- it's starting to 13 mushroom, and there wasn't much room left in the park. It 14 was pretty well-taken up in that -- 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It was filled. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the west end. So, it was a 17 great time had by everybody. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, was it a mass 19 gathering? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I don't know that I could 21 classify it as that. Had it been, of course, I would have 22 been obliged to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were they drinking beer? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: There -- there was beer being sold 25 by the -- by the Legion Auxiliary folks as a fundraiser in 4-9-12 10 1 their programs to assist veterans, hence the -- hence the 2 name of the event, "Here's to the Heroes." And they were the 3 main sponsor of the event, and so -- but everything looked to 4 be well under control. Let's get on with our agenda. Our 5 first item is a 9 o'clock item; to consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to drop the private road 3039 Northwest 7 name, rename that private road Rose Juniper Trail Northwest, 8 same being located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 9 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Morning. 11 MR. ODOM: The residents of private road 3039 12 Northwest request that the existing name be dropped and the 13 private road be renamed Rose Juniper Trail Northwest. This 14 road is a private road and privately maintained. So, at this 15 time, we ask the Court to drop the existing road name of 16 private road 3039 Northwest, and rename the private road Rose 17 Juniper Trail Northwest, Precinct 4. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like an appropriate 19 name to me. I move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 23 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4-9-12 11 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 3 Item 2, which is to consider, discuss, take appropriate 4 action to authorize participation in the Texas Remote 5 Interpreter Project through the Office of Court 6 Administration. I put this on the agenda. Essentially, what 7 this is, I think it's a throw-off against the Violence 8 Against Women Act. It provides for interpreter services at 9 no cost under a grant program in domestic violence type of 10 cases. Don't know that we'll have a need for it. If we do, 11 we can utilize those services, but that's the only purpose 12 for which it can be used. Other court interpreter issues 13 will have to be handled as we're presently handling them, 14 either informally or through approved and certified 15 interpreters. But this is a program which authorizes us, at 16 no cost, to utilize interpreters in -- in those domestic 17 violence type cases. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask you a question 19 about it, Judge? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was reading here -- and 22 I'm sure there's an attorney mixed up in this thing 23 somewhere. But it says when you have a party needing foreign 24 language interpretation, Spanish and other -- 170 languages, 25 during a civil case, which includes allegations of domestic 4-9-12 12 1 violence. That -- that says to me that it's for all civil 2 cases, not just domestic violence. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, any -- any civil case in which 4 domestic violence is an issue. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the way -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's cool. So, you 8 don't see it -- and it says at no cost to your county. You 9 don't see that coming back in four years and -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the only requirement in it is 11 that there is -- there's after-the-fact auditing, and if -- 12 if they come in and audit you and find that you've used those 13 services in cases that are totally unrelated to the purpose 14 of the grant, why, then they're going to send you a bill. 15 But if you use it for the proper purposes, you're okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, very good. You desire 17 to do this? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, if we have the need 19 for it, it will save us some money. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And we might just as well take 22 advantage of it. And these are certified interpreters, 23 recognized by the state, that are being utilized in this 24 program. It's via telephonic hookup. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4-9-12 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And the only requirement is that you 2 have a -- have a two-way telephonic communication. And, of 3 course, we've got that in all of our -- all of our courtrooms 4 now. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 9 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Item 3 is to 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to address 15 possibility of prohibiting the sale or use of restricted 16 fireworks, that being skyrockets with sticks and missiles 17 with fins, in any portion of the unincorporated area of Kerr 18 County pursuant to Local Government Code Section 352.051 for 19 the Cinco de Mayo holiday. That's May the 5th. I put it on 20 the agenda to give us an opportunity if we choose to deal 21 with that. The -- as I recall last year, being that the 22 drought situations were different -- we've had some rain this 23 year, so that may make the Court's reception of this a little 24 different, but it's there for your consideration. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no interest in it, 4-9-12 14 1 thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have anything to offer? 3 We'll move on to Item 4; to consider, discuss, take 4 appropriate action to authorize appraisal for right-of-way 5 acquisition on Lane Valley. Commissioner Letz? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 7 We've discussed this probably for three, four years, five 8 years. And it's being driven largely by some property owners 9 on Lane Valley Road, some bad areas of the right-of-way. 10 They want to replace fences, and I keep on delaying, and they 11 keep on pushing. And they're finally to the point that 12 they're going to either build a new fence on the current 13 right-of-way, or we're going to need to get some 14 right-of-way. The total area is -- you know, the way it lays 15 out, or the way Voelkel -- they've already surveyed it. It 16 can be up to almost 5 acres along the length of the road. 17 It's a fair amount. One property owner owns the majority of 18 it, and he's just -- you know, and just because of the way 19 the property lays, he's dealing with one person, which makes 20 it a whole lot easier. I visited with Road and Bridge, and 21 have over time. They're in favor of it. They've been out 22 there and laid out where they wanted to get the right-of-way, 23 met with some landowners and things. I've also visited with 24 the County Attorney a little bit. 25 Originally, and even still, they -- some of the 4-9-12 15 1 property owners would rather trade out in-kind services 2 rather than receive money. The County Attorney wasn't real 3 keen on that. But either way, we need -- we'll need to get 4 an appraisal so we can move forward on this if there's to 5 be -- to be any exchange of dollars. The idea was to be -- 6 was that at one point, that we would either -- that they'd 7 donate the right-of-way if we did, you know, some road work. 8 That was the concept, and that's the concept the County 9 Attorney didn't think was a real good idea. So, this is on 10 the agenda just mainly just to authorize probably Beck 11 Gipson -- I tried to get hold of him; I haven't been able to 12 talk to him -- to go out do and an appraisal on the 13 right-of-way so we know what we're looking at dollar-wise. 14 And -- and hopefully we can move forward. Len's in favor of 15 it, and I think funds are probably out of professional 16 services. Based on Beck's previous work, I would guess an 17 amount not to exceed $1,000. Hopefully he can come in less 18 on this. It will be the minimal -- you know, I think an 19 appraisal to satisfy state law requirements is what we need. 20 We don't need a big appraisal on this. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Like a fee appraisal. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, fee appraisal. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, a long history 24 looking back the last couple of years. Just for proximity, 25 for my information, where is it exactly, Lane Valley? 'Cause 4-9-12 16 1 I didn't have any backup with that. Where is that actually 2 located? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lane Valley's about halfway 4 between Comfort and Center Point. It goes back -- it's -- 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: In the back area? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah -- well, the area that 7 would be the right-of-way is along a straightaway coming out 8 of the river. Part of that, we've acquired additional 9 right-of-way doing some -- you know, years ago. But there's 10 -- when you turn the corner, it kind of goes down through a 11 -- it's called Bear Hollow, and it winds; a lot of blind 12 corners, and then it kind of -- it's a winding road for a 13 ways, and it basically is all this whole stretch, probably a 14 4-mile stretch. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And right-of-way right now 17 ranges from probably 30 feet to maybe 35 feet -- probably 25 18 feet to 35 feet. And you have -- there's a lot of traffic on 19 there now. This is -- it's the road with the big subdivision 20 at the end of it. That's what got this thing started 21 originally. That thing is still pending. It will be 22 developed, in my opinion, at some point. And even without 23 that, there's more and more people -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I remember correctly, 25 too, it's -- also pending is a connection to Boerne back in 4-9-12 17 1 there, isn't there? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At some point. That's kind of 3 on a -- on a temporary halt. Anyway, from what I understand 4 from the developer, there's no immediate plans to do that, 5 but the -- it's really the traffic. And it's just a 6 dangerous road. I mean, if you -- if you meet another 7 vehicle on a lot of this road, someone needs to pull over and 8 stop. And so it would be a way -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you see as the 10 trade-off? I mean, are we going to end up purchasing this, 11 or what happens? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's why we need Beck 13 to give a little bit of appraisal. My view is, the fences 14 are in pretty bad shape. I don't think there's a lot of -- 15 there's zero value there, so I think we may be able to go 16 ahead and buy -- and build -- you know, pay an amount for the 17 fencing to get the actual right-of-way donated. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way -- that's the 19 olden days, the way did it in the olden days. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I think even to do 21 that, I think we need to probably have an appraisal so that, 22 you know, -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we have a little bit -- at 25 least the appraisal will say the fences are of no value. 4-9-12 18 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get a price for how much the 4 fences cost today; compare that to what the appraisal is, and 5 the appraisal may -- you know, fence cost may be in excess 6 of -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- what the right-of-way 9 appraises for. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's one of those -- it's -- 11 you know, everyone is willing to do it. No one's trying to 12 make -- I mean, property owners are willing to -- you know, 13 they really want help on the fencing more than the land. I 14 think they're willing to donate the land, but the fencing is 15 the cost. And it's a -- it's a long stretch. It's -- like I 16 say, it's almost -- probably 4 miles. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to make a 18 motion? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to authorize 20 Commissioner Letz to hire an appraiser to do a fee appraisal 21 on the right-of-way acquisition on Lane Valley Road. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and a second -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Amount not to exceed $1,000. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 4-9-12 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 2 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 8 Item 5; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 9 extend the use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center by 10 the Kerrville area Chamber of Commerce from August 6th 11 through the 12th, 2012, KerrFest 2012. Ms. Craddock? 12 MS. CRADDOCK: Good morning. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 14 MS. CRADDOCK: I'm here today on behalf of 15 Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce and KerrFest committee. 16 Thank you again for your support for KerrFest. We are moving 17 forward, very excited about this year's festivities. And I 18 am here today to ask for an extension of the dates to include 19 August 6th through 9th, as we would like to add a carnival 20 this year. Denny Foster and I met with Commissioner Overby 21 and Commissioner Oehler a couple of weeks ago to see if there 22 would be any issues that we needed to iron out. Finding 23 none, I am here today to request the extension of the use of 24 the facility to include August 6th through 9th. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that -- 4-9-12 20 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does that conflict with your 2 bookings? 3 MS. GRINSTEAD: I don't think so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any problems with it, Tim? 5 Other than it's probably going to put some additional work on 6 you, but think of how much fun you're going to have doing it. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Right. It's a blast working with 8 Kristan. 9 MS. CRADDOCK: Thank you, sir. You as well. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what -- what are the 11 dates right at this moment? 12 MS. CRADDOCK: The dates are the 10th through the 13 12th. It's Friday, the 10th, and Saturday, the 11th are the 14 dates with the rodeo and then the chili cook-off and beer 15 judging and all of that. We are talking to a carnival 16 company. They would like to come in, set up on the 6th, and 17 run on the 7th through the 11th. Being summertime, school 18 won't be in session yet, so we see a lot of traffic being 19 driven out there. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kristan? 21 MS. CRADDOCK: Yes, sir? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand this. Is 23 it 6th through 12th or 6th through 9th? 24 MS. CRADDOCK: We already have it on the 10th 25 through the 12th, so we're asking for the additional dates of 4-9-12 21 1 the 6th through the 9th. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're going to -- 6th 3 through 12th is what we're -- is the total? 4 MS. CRADDOCK: Total, yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And, again, that event last 7 year was really positive. A lot of good things, and it's 8 another opportunity. You see this event, again, growing more 9 each year, don't you? 10 MS. CRADDOCK: Yes, sir, absolutely, especially 11 with the -- the upgrades out there. We're very excited about 12 those. We've been talking about those as well. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's great. 14 MS. CRADDOCK: Look forward to supporting you on 15 all those. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is an extension of 17 three days. 18 MS. CRADDOCK: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MS. CRADDOCK: Actually four days, Monday through 21 Thursday. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MS. CRADDOCK: 6, 7, 8, and 9. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what you're talking 25 about is at no cost? 4-9-12 22 1 MS. CRADDOCK: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why should we give you 3 no cost and -- and charge everybody else? 4 MS. CRADDOCK: As part of your sponsorship of the 5 event. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: She came prepared, didn't she, 8 Commissioner? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good answer. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. This is probably 11 going to be my last time to vote to give things away free 12 like this, so enjoy. 13 MS. CRADDOCK: Thank you, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I was amazed at how well received 15 that event was the first year. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It was phenomenal. I was amazed. 18 MS. CRADDOCK: You know, sometimes you throw a dart 19 and it hits. I think this was a -- this was a bull's eye. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're swinging for the fence 21 this time? 22 MS. CRADDOCK: Always, sir. Always. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and last year the heat 25 was unbelievable. 4-9-12 23 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, hopefully it'll be 3 a little better. It's wetter this year; maybe it will be 4 better attended than it was. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to get a rock star? 6 MS. CRADDOCK: No, sir. We're looking at some 7 local talent. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Kristan's a rock star. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no question of that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster, has she contacted you 12 about the -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- entertainment yet? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what all this is 16 about, of course. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Could it have something to do with 19 the "free in the future"? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's exactly right. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval of the agenda 22 item. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 4-9-12 24 1 raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 6 Ms. Craddock. 7 MS. CRADDOCK: Thank you, gentlemen. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item Number 8, if we 9 might; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 10 regarding the inspection reports by T.C.E.Q. of Ingram Lake 11 Dam. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we got a -- got our 13 letter in response from T.C.E.Q. with their evaluation of the 14 Ingram Dam after it was repaired last year, and I think that 15 we probably need to maybe ask John Hewitt to take this and 16 see what his assessment is of what they have identified 17 before we do anything else. And I don't have the expertise. 18 But, you know, the dam had to be drained. They fixed all the 19 places they could see when it was full of water, and we had 20 so much water running through it, they couldn't fix it 21 without draining it. So -- you know, and then when it's 22 filled back up, there are a few little tiny seeps that they 23 have identified. I was there with them when they did the 24 inspection, and it was much better than it had been before 25 they did the repair on the dam. But I think if we get John 4-9-12 25 1 to go out and take a look, we'll find out whether we need to 2 get Freese-Nichols back, and also maybe the contractor to do 3 some additional work if he deems it to be necessary. But I 4 don't think anyone on this Court has that expertise to make 5 that recommendation on a course of action, but we do need to 6 respond. They've asked for a response in this letter from 7 T.C.E.Q. to what our course of action is going to be, and so 8 I think that I would like to get authority -- or authorize 9 John Hewitt to go do an evaluation based on what they've 10 identified, and come back to us with a response -- with a 11 report and maybe a course of action. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposed response? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that that was a motion? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a motion. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question is, have you talked to 21 John? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not yet. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just wondering if John has 24 the expertise himself to do this. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think I'll ask him, 4-9-12 26 1 and then -- I haven't talked to him, but I don't know of 2 anybody else that -- unless we go out and hire an engineering 3 firm to do this. I think he could do it for probably -- and 4 if he's not able to do it, I'll come back to the Court -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for recommendation. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he'll tell you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I know. I was just 9 wondering, it's one of those kind of a -- he may be up to 10 speed on it. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, he may or may not, but 12 I think he probably has enough to be able to take this letter 13 and the report and go and look for himself. It's pretty 14 explicit. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the pictures and stuff 17 with it. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: When did they do that? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, they did it back in 20 February or March. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last year, after we finished 23 -- after the contractor finished the repairs. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But there's just -- every dam 4-9-12 27 1 in this country leaks a little bit. There's no such thing as 2 one that doesn't leak a little bit of water. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you patch it here, it's 4 going to leak there. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. But it's -- it's much 6 better than it ever was. We did the repair on it, and we 7 didn't hear the water running through it any more. And, you 8 know, like I say, the seepage is very minimal compared to 9 what leaks we had before the repair. So, anyway -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions on the motion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. It's 9:30, 17 so let's go to our first 9:30 timed item, Number 6; to 18 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept and 19 award bid for O.S.S.F. installations under Grant Number 20 710065 to Arturo Alva. Good morning, Mr. Garcia. 21 MR. GARCIA: Morning. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Phalan. 23 MS. PHALAN: Good morning. 24 MR. GARCIA: That was the only bid that we 25 received, one bid. And we are prepared to move to the next 4-9-12 28 1 step to accept the bid, and then move on to the next one for 2 you to sign the small purchase procurement forms. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Phalan, the bids were in 4 compliance with the bid requirements of the grant and -- and 5 the responses and so forth? 6 MS. PHALAN: Yes. We checked them for eligibility 7 for federal funds. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We have five participating in 9 this now? 10 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is that correct? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval to the award the bid. Question or discussion? All 16 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you. 21 Let's go to Item 7; to consider, discuss, approve Small 22 Purchase Procurement Records for Kerr County O.S.S.F. Grant 23 Number 710065 and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 24 Mr. Garcia? 25 MR. GARCIA: Those are there in front of you, all 4-9-12 29 1 ready to go. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 5 the agenda item. These are the bids that we're speaking of. 6 Actually, the -- the bid report is what it amounts to? 7 MS. PHALAN: Yes, these are the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As part of the bids, or attempt to 9 obtain bids that -- 10 MS. PHALAN: Correct. Those are the State-required 11 forms -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MS. PHALAN: -- authorizing Mr. Alva. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 15 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 21 very much. Let's go to Item 9; to consider, discuss, take 22 appropriate action to approve immediate conversion to GPS 23 technology for the Kerr County law enforcement radio system 24 synchronization. Sheriff? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's kind of bad news, 4-9-12 30 1 kind of good news. One of those should be for her. In the 2 capital outlay item for the C.O. that y'all are getting ready 3 to do, we had put the conversion from the current system to a 4 GPS system to keep our radio frequency in sync, and because 5 it was becoming obsolete. Well, we got notified by Dailey 6 Wells last week, who is the one that controls it, that -- and 7 you can see the explanation in there in that thing I handed 8 you, that, you know, that synchronization, the way it's 9 currently done, that we're trying to get away from -- it's 10 called WWVP -- VB. And that is being changed as of July -- 11 between July and August by folks in Fort Collins, Colorado. 12 Which doesn't give us a choice. If we don't convert 13 immediately, we will not have a law enforcement radio system 14 come July. That part of that conversion is $25,754.40. Now, 15 it is in the 280,000 y'all have programmed, or part of that 16 for the law enforcement upgrade. It's part of that also, so 17 that would drop that by about, you know, almost 26,000. But 18 this 26,000 I need immediately, or at least have the 19 authority to give Dailey Wells the go-ahead with a purchase 20 order number to go ahead and get the equipment and install 21 it. 22 Now, the good part about it is, because of our 23 current maintenance contract with Dailey Wells on our radio 24 system, the installation part is covered by the maintenance 25 contract, so it's just the parts that we are going to have to 4-9-12 31 1 have to do this. I just don't have a choice. You know, 2 where the $25,754 comes from immediately, or if it -- you 3 know, if the bill comes in before the C.O., I don't know 4 where to get it. I'm sure at the end of the year, I'd have 5 it left over in my budget, but I couldn't pick out a certain 6 line item in my budget to be able to get it from right now. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is amazing that we're 8 trying to put a budget together, and can't even get the 9 budget together before they change it. This is amazing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand you, 11 Sheriff. The actual total amount of this radio system that 12 we're plugging into this capital issue, the total amount 13 would probably be slightly less because of the installation 14 aspect of this up-front part being done while it's under 15 contract. So -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So the total amount is not only not 18 going to be more than; it's probably going to be a little 19 less than. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The only difference being because of 22 the action of those folks in Colorado, or wherever they are, 23 pulling the plug on some part of the system, is that we're 24 having to do a portion of this much earlier than we 25 anticipated, and -- but we're getting a slight benefit 4-9-12 32 1 because of the decreased cost because of the labor aspect. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right, that's what it amounts 3 to. To make -- I don't understand this. If you look halfway 4 down that page in what I gave you, it states that a change in 5 the WWVB signal was being considered in recent years to 6 reduce the impact of electromagnetic interference and 7 allowing for improved reception in consumer-grade clocks and 8 watches. However, this change affects the operation of 9 precise time and frequency standards whose receivers are 10 based on phase-locked loops, such as the Spectracom WWVB 11 receiver, so these products will not operate as intended. 12 So, because they're upgrading this clock-type technology in 13 Fort Collins, it won't allow our system to synchronize. 14 Our system actually works off four tower sites 15 because of the hill country. We're not like anywhere else 16 where we can get radio coverage, and those four tower sites 17 are tied together, being synchronized into, like, one 18 millionth of a second, so when you key up a mic, it hits all 19 four of them at the same time. If they aren't synced, it 20 doesn't work, because you end up getting garbled because the 21 radio frequency and that is not synced in. And that's what 22 keeps it synced, and what we've been trying to get to where 23 we could migrate to was the GPS technology to keep it synced, 24 and we were hoping to get there. But now, all of a sudden, 25 people in Colorado decide they're changing out the old system 4-9-12 33 1 sooner than later. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: By having our maintenance 3 agreement in place, how much are we saving by having that in 4 place, do you estimate? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know what their 6 installation cost would be of installing this equipment, but 7 that's what we're saving 'cause of the maintenance agreement. 8 We're saving the installation cost. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, funding source on the 10 up-front portion of this? 11 MS. HARGIS: Contingency is the only place we have 12 it right now. Contingency. That's it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- I mean, I'm not 14 opposed to taking it out of contingency, but the other thing 15 is, doesn't this really qualify as an emergency? I mean, 16 this was something that we had no control over, we couldn't 17 budget for, and rather than deplete contingency, which will 18 be something that we may need since it's pretty early in the 19 year still, couldn't we declare an emergency and take this 20 out of reserves? I mean -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, under our resolution on 22 our C.O.'s, we will have the ability to reimburse our 23 contingency once that funding occurs for any funds we took 24 out for an item which was in the capital issue, will we not? 25 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 4-9-12 34 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Otherwise, we may have to do a new 3 agenda item if we're going to declare an emergency, you see. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And he's running short enough now as 6 it is to try and get this done. I'm sure the line's already 7 formed to get those people -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the problem, 'cause 9 there's a lot of -- anybody with simulcast systems under the 10 older system, they're all having to get this done by July, or 11 you just don't have a radio system. And that's what I'm 12 trying to do. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Nothing like 90 days notice. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Pretty close. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm all in favor of 16 having a good law enforcement so they can talk to each other 17 and keep the bad people off the streets. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of a basic thing here. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How do you say no? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. So, you want a 22 specific amount of money? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- yeah, the specific 24 amount. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 26? 4-9-12 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's $25,754.40. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did somebody get that? 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, 25,754.40. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I move that we move that 5 amount from contingency to -- 6 MS. HARGIS: Law enforcement. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, law enforcement line 8 item. The appropriate law enforcement line item. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Radio maintenance or 10 something. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Radio maintenance or 12 whatever. And that's the motion. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll -- I'll second it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 16 the indicated amount to the appropriate law enforcement line 17 item from contingency to allow immediate conversion to GPS 18 technology for the Kerr County law enforcement radio system 19 synchronization. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I said. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm trying to repeat you word for 22 word, Commissioner. Trying to. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion on the 25 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 4-9-12 36 1 right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 6 Item 10; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 7 hire attorney John Carlton for the ESD process. Commissioner 8 Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, thank you very much. 10 As you know, the committee has been working long and hard, 11 and last meeting, somehow, I was -- I was out ill, and so I 12 didn't get this original information, these letters back and 13 forth to Mr. Carlton, and his -- his response to our creating 14 a county-wide emergency services district. So, it's there 15 today. But since that point, half of our committee -- 50 16 percent of our committee has contacted Mr. Carlton and had a 17 telephone conversation, and this is the update, and I 18 apologize for not getting it into -- into the agenda. So -- 19 the 50 percent of our committee is the County Attorney. 20 (Laughter.) And -- and I've asked him to respond to this, or 21 just brief us on the letter and how he's negotiated the 22 numbers and taken a look at the whole thing and had a 23 telephone conversation with Mr. Carlton. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. Gentlemen, 25 good morning. Mr. Carlton was the -- the individual chosen 4-9-12 37 1 by the committee as the preferred candidate to retain for 2 outside counsel legal work to have the ESD issue placed on 3 the November ballot. In his original response to the 4 County's RFQ, Mr. Carlton's proposal was an hourly rate for 5 himself and the associates in his firm. In looking at that 6 further, it's consistent with the type of fees that the 7 County pays for outside legal work, and that certainly didn't 8 raise my eyebrows much on that. But in visiting with him, 9 and just to give the Court something else to consider, I 10 asked Mr. Carlton if he would consider a flat fee proposal 11 for the -- the legal work necessary to get the ESD on the 12 ballot, prepare all the necessary forms, and he is amenable 13 to that. And what he would propose as an alternative to the 14 hourly rate schedule that was in his RFQ response is a flat 15 fee of $2,500, and then he would bill hourly if he has to 16 come to Kerrville for meetings or appointments or anything 17 like that. So, as long as he's doing the legal work and 18 document preparation in Austin, then that would be $2,500, 19 but if he's required to come to Kerr County, then he'd bill 20 hourly on that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the actual amount that we 22 anticipated -- this is significantly less than what we were 23 anticipating, was it not? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Significantly. 4-9-12 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 MR. HENNEKE: So, either way for the Court. He's 4 willing to do that. He's willing to bill the County hourly, 5 provide an itemized list, or this -- this may be easier to 6 budget. And keeping that in mind, I'd be glad to answer any 7 questions. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a preference which 9 way for the billing? 10 MR. HENNEKE: I think that the flat fee is cleaner, 11 and it puts the -- you know, the onus on us to, you know, be 12 mindful of his -- of his time. If we want the documents 13 prepared that need to be prepared, and -- and need to call 14 him and ask him questions and need, you know, him to help us 15 set up a schedule, then we know that's going to be $2,500. 16 If we, you know, ask him to come over and -- and have a -- 17 you know, a lot of meetings or so on and so forth, then we're 18 the ones charging ourselves on that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If we feel the need, we can incur 20 the cost. If we don't, why -- 21 MR. HENNEKE: I think it's a fair commitment on his 22 part, and I think it also speaks to his experience that was 23 listed in his RFQ response with the number of ESD's he has 24 performed service for that he says, "Yeah, I know what I'm 25 doing; I can do it for this much," and willing to do so. 4-9-12 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, do you have a 2 preference? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I do. I agree 100 4 percent with 50 percent of the committee. (Laughter.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So the committee is unanimous? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Our committee is unanimous 7 in the preference. And he -- he appears to me to be a guy 8 that's just really easy to work with. And, you know, with 9 something like this, we're going to need that. I just want 10 to bring up a couple points about the ESD before I make this 11 motion; that if you remember, the law says that the public is 12 required to sign a petition, 100 signatures of property 13 owners inside the proposed district, is to provide the County 14 Judge with a petition that they wish to have an ESD. And 15 then once that happens, then the people in this ESD district 16 will vote to either have it -- you know, I mean, we kind of 17 back off from that point. I mean, it's not anything that the 18 Commissioners Court's going to put in place. The people of 19 the county are going to vote up or down whether we do an ESD 20 or not. A five-person board is established, and again, by 21 law, it says that the Commissioners Court shall appoint the 22 five-man board, and, you know, hopefully, I -- I can see us 23 giving the City of Ingram a vote and the City of Kerrville 24 two votes, and the Commissioners Court two votes -- or names. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4-9-12 40 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then we bring it 2 together in the Commissioners Court and we appoint and give 3 everybody a seat at the table, or two seats. It is my hope 4 that once the thing is established, then the -- at least this 5 is my point of view, is that the Commissioners Court would 6 reduce the county budget accordingly to what the ESD brings 7 in from its taxing authority, so it's not a double taxation 8 thing at all. And it just -- to me, it is the answer to this 9 whole thing. It takes away -- it takes away the fight 10 between the City and County. It gives a funding stream that 11 is established and will be there. It's just a 12 plus-plus-plus. I can't -- I can't see a down side. And 13 it's certainly a trend statewide; ESD's are a trend, and 14 especially with -- with this particular lawyer. He does -- 15 does lots and lots of them. So, anyway, I just wanted to say 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree with everything 18 you say, Commissioner. Only -- only question I have is, what 19 is the -- the role of the two municipalities on determining 20 the boundary? Do you know that, how that works exactly? Or 21 do we have Mr. -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're moving toward 23 county-wide. Go ahead. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But can they opt out, is my 25 question. 4-9-12 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, they can. 2 MR. HENNEKE: Well, there's -- yeah. There's -- in 3 the process that Mr. Carlton will help us with, you send a 4 notice to the municipalities asking them to opt in or out for 5 their municipal boundaries, or -- and/or for the ETJ. And 6 they have 60 days to respond, and if they decline to be 7 included within the ESD, then for all intents and purposes, 8 they're out. There is an override provision, but I think 9 that -- that the hurdle to clear that, as far as signature 10 gathering, you probably have to get half the people within 11 the city to sign a petition in order to override it. So, 12 basically, when you initiate the ESD process, part of that 13 involves sending a letter to each of the bodies, and then 14 they have 60 days to take action on that. Based on their 15 action, then you know what the boundaries are going to be, 16 whether it's exclusive of the entire county, whether it 17 excludes, you know, municipal limits for one or both, or 18 whether it excludes the municipal limits and the ETJ. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From what I -- my understanding 20 of it right now, it would be a -- in my opinion, a plus for 21 City of Kerrville to be in the ESD. Big plus, I mean, for 22 them, 'cause it funds their ambulance department, or their -- 23 a good part of their -- it funds their department. And since 24 they're -- I think we've all said publicly, I believe that 25 they're the preferred provider county-wide, as they are right 4-9-12 42 1 now, so they'd have the most to gain to have a consolidated 2 county-wide ambulance service that they're really, I mean, 3 running, basically. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Dedicated funding stream. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, dedicated funding stream 6 to them, which helps them in their budget, in my mind. But 7 my question is, how do we get the City engaged to understand 8 how the ESD helps them? Because I don't think they're that 9 engaged right now. 10 MR. HENNEKE: All I can -- I mean, maybe that's 11 more of a -- I guess an esoteric question. I mean, I can say 12 that, you know, Mr. Carlton's role is not to lobby or not to 13 petition, you know, the governmental entities. His role is 14 to assist to us make sure the legal forms, you know, and the 15 process are -- are correct. Certainly, you know, the County 16 cannot advocate, but the County can educate about the issue. 17 And -- I don't know. I leave it -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's something I think that we 19 need to figure out as to how we, you know, educate the City 20 as to what the vote actually is. I think it's really 21 important to both leadership and the citizens of the city 22 limits. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could have a dinner at 24 your house. (Laughter.) There would be a start. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4-9-12 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Down your new road. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think initially, invite them to be 3 part of this process from the very beginning. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Because if they're informed from the 8 very beginning, they're invited into the process. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, we want it to be as open 11 to them as it is to us. And, you know, then they can make 12 their decision having the same breadth of knowledge as we 13 have. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's for starters. And then, of 16 course, hopefully, we can prevail upon media sources to put 17 out appropriate, correct information as to the pros and cons 18 and so forth of -- of the establishment of an ESD. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner Baldwin, I'd 20 like to also just add, I think the fee that we're looking at 21 here for Mr. Carlton is very reasonable. Again, we were just 22 talking about that. The thing that's impressive to me is the 23 20 years of experience that we have, and I think that's so 24 important, to rely on somebody who's got a lot of background 25 information on how ESD's -- and the list of ESD's that he has 4-9-12 44 1 successfully assisted is quite numerous, and -- and around 2 our area. And so I think it's really reasonable to have that 3 kind of expertise help. And I, too, Commissioner Letz -- you 4 know, the discussions of the pros and cons of the ESD with 5 our partners in town, we're getting to that point where it's 6 time to start looking at that. And the main thing is just 7 trying to bring that information to our community and our 8 citizens, educating what the pros and the cons of it are, and 9 let them decide from there. I think enhancing those services 10 is -- is important, and I think the City having those funds 11 to help for the long-term funding mechanisms are a lot of 12 positives that we really need to look at. So, I think it's 13 good that we're here. I think it's good that we're 14 discussing this, and you have my support on that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you're here too. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, have you made a 17 motion? Are you about to make a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm about to make a motion, 19 and I -- and I do so. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that motion is to -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hire. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- retain Mr. Carlton on a flat fee 24 basis as indicated, one of the two methods; is that correct? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, that is true. 4-9-12 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 2 on the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 12, if we might; to 10 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on mass gathering 11 permit submitted by the Kerrville Music Festival. The 12 application for the permit is in connection with Kerrville 13 Folk Festival that begins in the latter part of May and goes 14 into June. The reason it's put on the agenda, there's some 15 preliminary requirements involved in doing the investigation. 16 One of them involves the so-called county fire marshal. 17 Well, we don't have a county fire marshal, and as a result, 18 the Commissioners Court has the obligation to appoint someone 19 to act in that capacity for the purpose of doing an 20 investigation and reporting. I would remind the members of 21 the Court that we had this same situation last year. The 22 Court saw fit to appoint the designated law enforcement 23 emergency services liaison from the Court in that capacity, 24 Commissioner Baldwin, and he, in fact, has the experience of 25 doing so from last year. 4-9-12 46 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Marshal Baldwin. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Marshal. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. I was -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does he get a badge? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I was a Pope last 6 year, wasn't it? Am I kind of going down? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. You're -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do I have a badge? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster does not get a badge. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about a gun? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll -- so the motion would be 15 to appoint Commissioner Baldwin as the acting fire marshal 16 for the purposes of mass -- mass gathering permit at the 17 Kerrville Music Festival? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: As the county fire marshal. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's impressive. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am so honored. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 24 appoint Commissioner Baldwin as the person designated in lieu 25 of the county fire marshal to do the investigation and report 4-9-12 47 1 as required by the mass gathering permit. Question or 2 discussion? Any -- any acceptance speeches that you want to 3 make, Commissioner? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tonight. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tonight. Y'all be here at 7 5:30 tonight; I'm going to do one. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Leave your matches at home. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 15 is a short one. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15 looks like a short one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let's go to Item 15; to 19 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to ban all glass 20 containers in the Kerr County parks. 21 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bollier. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Seems like beer bottles can't find 24 their way to the trash can. Tired of running over them with 25 a lawnmower. 4-9-12 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the problem? 2 MR. BOLLIER: And there's a lot of broken -- 3 there's starting to become just more glass in the parks. You 4 know, it's not really -- they're not breaking them or 5 anything like that; there's just beer bottles laying out in 6 the grass by the picnic tables or stuff like that, and people 7 aren't picking them up. So, I would like to just ban it all 8 before it does become a problem. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any time glass breaks, then it's 10 difficult to pick up all the pieces, isn't it? 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, especially when you run 12 over it with a riding lawnmower. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And little children running around 14 in their bare feet run the risk. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This would also include 17 Ingram Dam and -- 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All the parks. 19 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's probably a 21 good idea. We've had problems -- a lot of problems with 22 people leaving beer bottles on the dam; then they get washed 23 off or somebody kicks them off, they break, and you got all 24 this glass down at the bottom in the water where these people 25 dam slide, and -- 4-9-12 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of hard on the sliding. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Not too safe. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can create a lot of 5 problems with broken glass. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to cuss, 7 though. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Dam glass." 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You said it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Dam slide." 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How do you enforce it without 14 an ordinance? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- I think that's a 16 valid question. I think by banning it, you hope people 17 follow it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Post signs. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put signs up. I don't know -- 20 I don't know -- I'm not looking at your deputies to write 21 tickets for people that have glass. I'm just looking to -- 22 kind of more notice to ban it. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll have -- if we do this, 25 I'll have Kelly, you know, probably do signs. 4-9-12 50 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Put some signs up for all the 2 parks. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For all the parks. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think it's an educational 5 process too, just for educating folks. Don't bring them. 6 That's -- I think you'll find most people will comply, just 7 because they realize that -- 8 MR. BOLLIER: At least it will slow it down. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is a safety issue. Of 10 course, you're always going to have some abusers, but 11 hopefully not as many. The signs have worked pretty well at 12 Ingram Dam on stuff we put up, you know, about trash and 13 things. And adding the word "please" on there makes a 14 difference, instead of saying, you know, if you do it, we're 15 going to beat you over the head and throw you in jail. It 16 does -- it does really work if you ask. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll make a motion, then, to 19 ban all glass containers in all the Kerr County parks. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which includes Ingram Dam. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's all of them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 23 the agenda item. Question or discussion on the motion? All 24 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4-9-12 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 4 our 10 o'clock timed item -- it is that time now -- to 5 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a 6 resolution regarding an Aqua Texas proposed rate increase. 7 Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think everyone received 9 a copy of the resolution that I drafted. I know the County 10 Attorney had a chance to briefly look at it; he made a couple 11 of minor changes to it. It's included in the draft that was 12 in the agenda package. The more I looked into this, the more 13 annoyed I got with Aqua Texas. And what they're doing, to 14 me, is truly onerous. And I also want to thank, from the 15 very beginning, Mr. Cathey, Mr. Westfall, members from -- 16 Bill Wood in Falling Waters, Mr. Thomas in Falling Waters. 17 They all provided a lot of the information. They kind of -- 18 you know, I didn't take what they said without verifying it 19 and reading it in documents, but they certainly pointed me in 20 the correct areas of the -- the stacks of paper that I've 21 accumulated though this, which is nothing compared to what -- 22 I know Mr. Cathey has notebooks on it. So, I really do 23 appreciate it. 24 It's one of the longer resolutions I think the 25 Court's ever undertaken, and it's also one of the most 4-9-12 52 1 thorough I think we've undertaken, but I did it 2 intentionally. I think it's really an important issue. You 3 know, hopefully it will have some impact. I don't have real 4 high hopes on that, because we're dealing with a state agency 5 we have no real authority or control over, but hopefully 6 they'll listen. And hopefully our two legislators, 7 Representative Hilderbran and Senator Fraser, will look at 8 this and have a pretty, you know, detailed document going 9 forward as to what is happening and what our position is. 10 Let me go ahead and read -- I know it's long, but let me read 11 it into the record, if I might, and then we'll -- I know Mr. 12 Cathey has a couple of suggested changes, and I agree with 13 his changes. I'll go ahead and hand those out right now so 14 y'all can look at them as we're going through today. 15 Resolution of Kerr County Commissioners Court 16 protesting the proposed rate increase filed by Aqua Texas, 17 Inc., with Texas Commission on Environmental Quality for 18 CCN's 11157, 12902, 11421, and 11484. Whereas, Aqua Texas, 19 Inc., is a subsidiary of Aqua America, Inc., and operates in 20 Kerr County under the additional following names: Aqua 21 Utilities, Inc., Aqua Development, Inc., Harper Water 22 Company, Inc., Kerrville South Water Company, Inc., 23 collectively referred to as Aqua Texas. Whereas, Aqua Texas 24 owns and operates numerous public water systems in Kerr 25 County and serves over 3,300 residents of Kerr County -- went 4-9-12 53 1 too far. There we go. ...Kerr County. Whereas, Kerr County 2 Commissioners Court acknowledges that Aqua Texas provides a 3 needed service to the citizens of Kerr County by supplying 4 potable water -- drinking water. Whereas, Aqua America, 5 Inc., states in its December 2011 Aqua America, Inc., Letter 6 to Shareholders that the company announced a 6.5 percent 7 dividend increase to shareholders indicating the current 8 profitability of the company. 9 Whereas, based on information provided in the Aqua 10 Texas Notice of Proposed Rate Change, Aqua Texas has proposed 11 a rate increase to its customers in Kerr County ranging from 12 20 percent to 67 percent. Whereas, Aqua Texas states that it 13 has invested $31.7 million to improve capital infrastructure 14 since 2004; however, there has been no accounting provided to 15 the residents of Kerr County explaining these expenditures 16 and how they benefited the residents of Kerr County. The 17 proposed rate increase will establish a minimum monthly 18 residential rate that is over 420 percent higher, and a 19 minimum -- a minimum commercial rate that is over 1,000 20 percent higher than the public municipal water providers in 21 and adjacent to Kerr County. Whereas, the level of service 22 provided by Aqua Texas is far less than that provided by 23 public municipal water providers in and adjacent to Kerr 24 County in that Aqua Texas does not provide water for adequate 25 fire protection and, in fact, has painted all its fire 4-9-12 54 1 hydrants black, does not provide adequate water pressure in 2 its systems, and does not provide adequate water quality in 3 its systems. 4 Whereas, the proposed rate increase includes a 5 regional pass-through gallonage charge whereby Kerr County 6 residents will pay for fees charged by governmental entities, 7 water authorities, and water districts outside of Kerr 8 County. Whereas, the proposed rate increase includes pumping 9 fees and the potential purchase of water in counties other 10 than Kerr County. The ratepayers in Kerr County are being 11 asked to fund these expenditures, even though they will 12 receive absolutely no benefit from these costs. Whereas, 13 Aqua Texas has not adequately maintained all its water 14 utilities in Kerr County, and has at least one system where 15 residents have received notices from T.C.E.Q. that the 16 combined levels of Radium 226 and Radium 228 do not meet 17 standards of the state of Texas, raising health concerns for 18 long-term exposure. This situation has existed since 2005 -- 19 at least 2005. 20 Whereas, T.C.E.Q. is a state commission that should 21 protect the rights of the citizens of Texas, and not approve 22 rate increases until it has been proven that such increase is 23 explained, justified, and warranted. Whereas, Texas 24 Commission on Environmental Quality has the authority to 25 approve rate increases, and Kerr County Commissioners Court 4-9-12 55 1 has no authority over this decision; however, Kerr County 2 Commissioners Court is the local governmental entity that 3 represents the residents of Kerr County, and is providing 4 this resolution in support of its citizens. Now, therefore, 5 be it resolved that on the 9th day of April, 2011, Kerr 6 County Commissioners Court unanimously requests that T.C.E.Q. 7 hold a public meeting in Kerr County to provide the following 8 information to the public: 1. Require Aqua Texas to explain 9 the need for the rate increase and how this rate increase 10 will be used to benefit the citizens of Kerr County. 11 2. Require Aqua Texas to provide detailed information to the 12 ratepayers in Kerr County explaining the infrastructure 13 improvements made in Kerr County and how these improvements 14 benefited the ratepayers of Kerr County. 15 Now, therefore, -- or Therefore, be it further 16 resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court unanimously 17 requests T.C.E.Q. consider the following: 1. T.C.E.Q. should 18 not allow any fees, water purchases, or other direct water 19 costs expended outside of Kerr County to be included in any 20 rate increase for the ratepayers in Kerr County. 2. T.C.E.Q. 21 should not approve any rate increase that includes a regional 22 pass-through gallonage charge. 3. T.C.E.Q. should not 23 approve any mechanism whereby any future rate increases of 24 any kind can be approved administratively and without the 25 process of public hearing. 4. T.C.E.Q. should only approve a 4-9-12 56 1 rate increase for the citizens of Kerr County that will 2 benefit the capital infrastructure in Kerr County. And, 3 therefore, be it further resolved that Kerr County 4 Commissioners Court unanimously requests that T.C.E.Q. hold a 5 public hearing on this proposed rate increase. And, 6 therefore, it be it further resolved that Kerr County 7 Commissioners Court unanimously requests that Senator Troy 8 Fraser and State Representative Harvey Hilderbran consider 9 introducing legislation to improve the oversight and 10 accountability of private water utility companies. 11 The changes Mr. Cathey recommended, and I agree, go 12 back into the paragraph that says, "Based on information 13 provided in the Aqua Texas Notice of Proposed Rate Increase, 14 has proposed a rate increase to its customers of Kerr County 15 ranging from 20 percent to 67 percent." Mr. Cathey 16 recalculated -- looked at some of the others. That should be 17 up to 104 percent. So, it should go from 20 percent to 104 18 percent. The other one is two paragraphs below that. It 19 reads, "The proposed rate increase will establish a minimum 20 monthly residential rate that is over 420 percent higher..." 21 I think that should read 323 percent higher. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Instead of 420? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it should say 323. My 24 math was off when I did that, that percentage increase. The 25 other one there, you know, he thought it sounded -- or worded 4-9-12 57 1 better to say "10 times higher" rather than "1,000 percent 2 higher." I don't know that there's a big difference either 3 way. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same thing. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same thing -- says the same 6 thing. And the last one is under the -- I think it was the 7 final Resolved. The last line said "private water utility 8 companies." I think the correct state terminology should be 9 "investor-owned utility companies." That's how it is 10 referred to in most actions. And just as a general comment, 11 going back to the municipal rate increases, I said "in and 12 adjacent," and the only adjacent -- and the reason I said 13 "adjacent" is because of Kendall Water Improvement District 14 No. 1. The increase that I said, the 323 percent, 10 times 15 higher is actually comparing it to the City of Kerrville. 16 Comfort's rates are lower. The percentage increase is 17 actually here if you look at the -- at the only other 18 municipal, you know, provider. And I do want do say on that, 19 I tried to make this a little bit simpler. If you start 20 comparing the rates of Kendall County Improvement District, 21 the City of Kerrville, versus what Aqua Texas does, it's real 22 hard. I made the assumption that residential rates are 23 meters that are 5/8 to 3/4 inch, and if you have a 1-inch 24 meter, you're considered a commercial user, because they use 25 the -- kind of pass around the terminology. But it's a -- I 4-9-12 58 1 think it's certainly sufficient the way I worded it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty good education, huh? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than I wanted to know. 4 (Laughter.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: There may be some additional input 6 that some citizens may want to make that I think may be 7 material to this -- the more global issues involved in that. 8 We've got some several participation forms that -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I just say one 10 thing? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On your Resolved, the issue 13 of -- to hold a public meeting in Kerr County is major 14 important, and I've seen our legislators do that before. 15 They've pushed people around to get it done, but they can do 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it would be super 19 important to have that meeting here, as opposed to wherever. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and that's -- and I'm 21 looking at two things. One, the public hearing, I think, 22 should be here, but the public meeting isn't really an 23 additional obligation of -- Aqua Texas to has to explain what 24 they're doing locally, and it's -- there's kind of -- there's 25 two things. Actually, the meeting that I -- it doesn't 4-9-12 59 1 request the public hearing be held here, but I think it's a 2 good point, Commissioner Baldwin, that maybe we should add 3 that in here, that a public hearing be held in Kerr County 4 also. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Ready to -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- go with our -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- public participation? Mr. 12 Cathey. Mr. William Cathey. 13 MR. CATHEY: Good morning, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 15 MR. CATHEY: Commissioners. Thank you for 16 entertaining me. I want to thank Commissioner Letz for his 17 hard work on this. And I really don't have too much to add, 18 except that us Aqua Texas customers, primarily from Loma 19 Vista Subdivision, have -- have mentioned that a 67 percent 20 rate increase is a lot, but there are 610 other Kerrville -- 21 or Kerr County citizens who are under the former Harper Water 22 Company who are receiving a 104 percent rate increase. That 23 went into effect last month -- or actually February, and 24 that's something showing up on their water bills now. And 25 I'm sure that everybody here from Loma Vista today has 4-9-12 60 1 noticed that on their water bills, that they're -- they've 2 gone up significantly, and they'll go up significantly next 3 month when the full month of the rates take effect. And I 4 thank you, Commissioner Letz, for entertaining my ideas here 5 on some of the numbers. 6 And regarding the difference in base rates between 7 Aqua Texas and municipalities, it just goes off the charts 8 when you start talking about commercial hookups. A 12-inch 9 connection is $12,000 a month with Aqua Texas. Not that most 10 of their systems would support a 12-inch connection, but they 11 do serve some fairly large communities. And so, you know, a 12 business is going to be handicapped that's trying to operate 13 in a CCN territory that Aqua Texas operates. So, I think 14 that's an important distinction that Commissioner Letz made 15 there regarding those -- the difference between commercial 16 and residential hookups. And last of all, and Commissioner 17 Letz mentioned this, is that the -- the buzzword or the name 18 for Aqua Texas type companies is "investor-owned utilities." 19 For the most part, they're out of state. For the most part, 20 they're big companies, and for the most part, they're taking 21 the ratepayers to the cleaners. So, thanks a lot for your 22 support. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 4-9-12 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Colonel Ray Orr? 2 MR. ORR: Colonel Ray Orr. Gentlemen, it's great 3 to be here to speak before you today. My name is Ray Orr, 4 and I'm an Aqua Texas ratepayer, and I'm also a Kerr County 5 resident. I'm glad the Council is considering this 6 resolution, and I believe -- but I do believe that Aqua Texas 7 does -- does deserve some increase. The question is, not to 8 the magnitude that they've expressed in their notice, their 9 recent inquiries. And I believe a good comparison, as was 10 pointed out, is the one that was done by KPUB that was in 11 the -- recently in the paper comparing their rates to what 12 this proposed rate is to the Tex -- Aqua Texas ratepayers. 13 I believe that change is necessary at the state level. I got 14 two points I want to bring up. I believe that change is 15 necessary at the state level so we, as ratepayers, are 16 properly represented in the rate increase, and we can 17 adequately work -- protest an unreasonable rate increase. 18 I would ask you as elected officials to, either in 19 this resolution or by other means, convey to our state 20 elected officials that the law that governs water rate 21 increases should be changed. Water companies should not be 22 allowed to group their rate increases to large segments as 23 they have done this time, which almost makes it impossible to 24 protest it. And if you do get the funds together -- the 25 people together and the funds to protest it, and you lose, 4-9-12 62 1 you get double jeopardy; now you have to pay Aqua Texas or 2 whoever you're protesting against to pay their legal fees, 3 and they will put it back onto your rate increase. So, it's 4 a double whammy, so we need to get the laws changed in 5 Austin. That's the first point I want to make. 6 The second point I want to make is, the control of 7 our water rates needs to be moved, in my opinion, from 8 T.C.E.Q. and put under the Public Utility Commission. This 9 was proposed in Austin -- has been proposed in Austin several 10 times, but it has fell upon deaf ears. Again, we need to 11 attack -- or not attack; we need to get with our state 12 elected representatives and try to convey this to them. They 13 need to change it and put it under the Public Utility 14 Commission. I believe the Public Utility Commission will 15 better serve the -- and be more equitable to the ratepayers. 16 And as I understand it, they have -- they are doing this when 17 it comes to electric rates and other utilities they currently 18 control. In conclusion, I would ask you to convey these 19 sentiments in your resolution if you can incorporate some of 20 these, and/or by other means to the state -- to our state 21 representatives. I personally am going to convey this to my 22 state representative. Thank you for your time. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Colonel. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Mr. Orr. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Larry Westfall. 4-9-12 63 1 MR. WESTFALL: Good morning, gentlemen. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good morning. 3 MR. WESTFALL: Thank you very much for allowing me 4 to say a few words, and I promise to be very brief. For the 5 record, my name is Larry Westfall, and I'm a volunteer 6 officer and board member of the Kerrville South Community 7 Action Group, which is better known as the CAG. On behalf of 8 the CAG members, I want to express our appreciation for the 9 Court's actions to approve and issue the resolution being 10 discussed today. We are very pleased at the depth at which 11 the Commissioners, particularly Commissioner Letz, have 12 probed this in order to understand it and to document the 13 concerns of county citizens on the matter of Aqua's 14 unreasonable water rate increase. We at the CAG are 15 proceeding to take other actions in pursuit of our strategy 16 to overcome this unreasonable action. On April fool -- or 17 April 4 -- (Laughter.) I don't know how that comes in here. 18 We mailed out nearly 600 newsletters to our members 19 requesting protests, and some of you may have received this, 20 either in paper form or electronically. 21 The purpose of that was to further educate our -- 22 our members, our citizens in this matter, and to support and 23 facilitate the protest process, which is a principal 24 objective of ours at the moment, sort of step one. Some 25 members have mobilized around this. They hand-carry the 4-9-12 64 1 newsletters to other citizens in the area. Others have 2 arranged for area businesses to put these newsletters on the 3 counter for pickup by their customers. And so, while we at 4 the CAG are taking these actions, and -- and numerous other 5 ones, we need more support from other impacted citizens. If 6 you are displeased as a citizen with Aqua's action, we ask 7 that you speak out by protesting and by expressing your 8 concerns to your elected representatives. We will meet this 9 week with Representative Hilderbran to have a substantive 10 discussion of this with him, to talk about ways in which we 11 can support legislation aimed at improving the State's 12 oversight of water utilities, which we regard to be very 13 inappropriate at the present time. 14 Strategically, this is probably the most important 15 area of all to prevent these undefendable increases in the 16 future. Unfortunately, previous efforts of Representative 17 Hilderbran and -- and a few others to change the oversight 18 venue and to put in place legislation that would generally 19 support stronger oversight have failed due to the lack of 20 support of other legislators. And we really do need to deal 21 with this. We need a statewide initiative to encourage other 22 legislators to support this issue as a priority. So, in 23 closing, once again, I express our sincere thanks and 24 appreciation for your actions in this, the ones you've taken 25 and the ones that I know you will be taking. I invite now 4-9-12 65 1 our CAG members to stand and express their satisfaction with 2 this, if you will do that. (Applause.) And for our new fire 3 commissioner, if you would like to come out and examine our 4 fire hydrants in the area, we'd be pleased if you would do 5 that. (Laughter.) But I think you have one near your house. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, and it's just like 7 yours. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We have to get him the wrench that 9 you can open those up for him to do an appropriate 10 inspection, however. Thank you, Mr. Westfall. Mr. Charles 11 Wiedenfeld. 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: Good morning, Commissioners. 13 Charles Wiedenfeld, Wiedenfeld Water Works, an investor-owned 14 utility, kin to Aqua Texas. I want to go on record as saying 15 I oppose the Kerr County Commissioners getting involved in 16 the private business, and -- and especially sending a 17 resolution to the state and representatives concerning a 18 private industry, private business. I doubt y'all would do 19 the same thing for Walmart and their investors when they 20 raise their prices. I don't think y'all get involved when 21 other private industries have a rate increase. I mean, I 22 guess we can all find fault in everybody's business here and 23 how we mismanage money and are not very efficient, but, 24 again, I do not believe that the county government -- there 25 is a position of the Kerr County Environment -- not Kerr 4-9-12 66 1 County Environmental Health. I say that too. Kerr County 2 Commissioners. 3 As you know, rates is, you know, a big issue, and 4 between municipalities and investor-owned utilities, it all 5 comes down to pretty much the capital, how we obtain capital 6 and how capital is -- we receive our capital. Very big 7 difference between municipalities and the investor-owned 8 utility. And the capital that we do receive, and we have -- 9 the State tells us how we can reimburse or use or get our 10 depreciation from that, which is well beyond I.R.S. standards 11 and all that. So, like, a big example is wells. We have to 12 depreciate wells on 50 years. I have yet to see a well last 13 50 years, with water levels dropping the way they have in 14 Kerr County for the last 30 years. So -- so we are -- we're 15 writing off a lot on our -- on our books for wells that we 16 don't get full compensation for. Just one example. A lot of 17 equipment. 18 Again, I oppose it because investor-owned utilities 19 have much invested. They have a lot of taxes that are coming 20 back to y'all. Aqua Texas, if they put $31 million worth of 21 improvements in their systems in Kerr County, how many 22 thousands of tax dollars is that coming back to the community 23 and coming back? I would think that y'all ought to be out 24 promoting private industry and other industry in Kerr County. 25 Other business is what y'all have been trying to get going 4-9-12 67 1 forever, and in my opinion, if y'all told City of Kerrville 2 to sell to an investor-owned utility, and they put all that 3 capital and all their equipment into the private tax rolls, 4 y'all would have pay raises without opposition for lots of 5 years. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wiedenfeld, let me ask you, if I 7 might. You say if Walmart increases their prices, we 8 certainly don't weigh in on that. If Walmart increases their 9 prices, I have the opportunity to go down the street to deal 10 with some other vendor. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In the C.C.N.'s, I don't have that 13 opportunity. If I'm within your Certificate of Convenience 14 and Necessity territory, I'm obligated to purchase from you 15 or to put in my own well, if I can. And regulatory issues 16 that we have in place prohibits me in a lot of those 17 instances. So, I'm having difficulty finding a proper 18 analogy there with Walmart. Certainly, on the 19 municipal-owned utilities, if you don't have direct 20 accountability by virtue of election of -- of municipal 21 elected officials, be they councilmen or mayor, you have 22 indirect control. For example, KPUB; the City appoints 23 those, and if the -- if the electorate gets upset with the 24 appointees on the KPUB, they can certainly show that wrath by 25 throwing the rascals out, as it were, and those who appointed 4-9-12 68 1 them. So, I'm really having a difficult time signing onto 2 your analogy that we shouldn't be weighing into 3 investor-owned deals, because those people with those CCN's 4 have a lead pipe cinch, as it were. Now, you may not like 5 the rate of return, and, of course, you're -- you may not 6 like what they allow in the rates of depreciation and so 7 forth. You certainly have an option to stay in the business 8 or get out of the business, and that's, of course, your 9 choice. But I just -- I'm not buying your analogy. I'm 10 sorry. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: May I respond? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You may, sir. 13 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay. Yes, every customer has the 14 right to drill their own wells, subject to the rules that 15 Kerr County Commissioners have put in place. So, you know, 16 again, don't blame us for not having -- letting the customer 17 develop their own water source. There's other -- more than 18 one water source that can come in. You can have your own 19 rainwater system, see what the cost of that is in relation to 20 having a public water system. And I believe it is not out of 21 the realm -- if Aqua Texas wants to come into my CCN and, 22 say, come in and put all new structures in, all new pipes, 23 put their own pipes into my stuff, they can do that. But if 24 they do that, who do you think is going to have -- whose 25 customers would go to Aqua Texas versus go to mine? My -- my 4-9-12 69 1 infrastructure's already been there for years. I've already 2 got my rates down. They put in all new stuff, so I would 3 suspect that the existing utility in that CCN would have 4 lower rates, and thus the customer would stay with the 5 existing utility rather than go with a new utility, if they 6 want -- if they thought they could come in and kick you out, 7 which I think they can. 8 I think if customers wanted to, and if they thought 9 that I could serve Aqua Texas -- I could serve Aqua Texas 10 customers better, my utility, there's a process that I could 11 become their -- their utility provider. So, yes, there is 12 opportunity. There's not a lead cinch like you're saying we 13 got them hooked in. There's lots of options. It's just 14 nobody -- they're not cost-effective. And that's what y'all 15 keep forgetting. Water is cheap, and what is already in 16 place is cheaper by far than the next nearest competitor or 17 type. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think it's fair, 19 Mr. Wiedenfeld, for an investor-owned utility to acquire a 20 system, say, down in South Texas or far east Texas that is 21 literally a wreck; I mean, its infrastructure is shot, it 22 needs new wells or new treatment facilities or whatever its 23 method of -- of acquiring the water and making it potable and 24 distributing it. If -- if they're acquiring a system that's 25 not in compliance, that's had regulatory problems, I mean, 4-9-12 70 1 just overwhelming regulatory problems, and they can go in and 2 acquire it for literally nothing and then improve that 3 system, and turn around and charge these ratepayers here in 4 Kerr County for the improvements to that system in east 5 Texas, is that fair? 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, T.C.E.Q. has taken the 7 regional approach just very akin to electricity, oil and gas; 8 that's all a regional type deal. And -- and in the recent 9 past, they -- regionalization was the buzzword, as y'all all 10 know, in everything. But I think enough protests have come 11 from localized areas -- and let's say Kerr County is local. 12 Which, I mean, I see y'all's point in wanting to say Kerr 13 County residents ought to be paying for Kerr County services, 14 and I agree with that. But I know in the way they -- they -- 15 it's the State that's came down on regionalization and told 16 us. I had trouble at the last rate increase just getting 17 Kerr County -- all my systems in Kerr County considered 18 regional. I mean, and we had to argue that the aquifer's the 19 same, all of my infrastructure's the -- essentially the same. 20 You know, I'm served by the same electric company, you know, 21 blah, blah -- everything. But, I mean, you would have 22 thought it was a slam-dunk deal. 23 When Aqua Texas, like I say, has -- has -- when 24 they say regional, they go from Austin to, you know, Del Rio, 25 essentially type deal. And, yes, the economies of scale are 4-9-12 71 1 different. And paying for a system, you know, like I thought 2 you were leading up to -- one other thing; I guess I'll touch 3 on it. Yes, they ought to be acquiring systems. If they're 4 not worth -- the equipment is actually depreciated, it's 5 actually not functional, or it's functional but not worthy of 6 going very much further, yes, they shouldn't have to pay -- 7 they shouldn't pay any on that amount of money. I mean, 8 should pay for that equipment and get reimbursed for that. 9 And I think that has happened in the past with Aqua Texas 10 when they went in and bought -- I'm not knocking the 11 business. I'm -- you know, I don't know their business 12 strategy. A lot better business strategy than I have, or I'd 13 have higher rates, I guess. 14 But anyway, yes, I don't think they -- you should 15 be having to pay for something you're not getting, is 16 essentially what it is. But I agree that most all these junk 17 systems have to be totally upgraded, yes. One little water 18 system right here that only has, say, 50 connections, and 19 they had to totally revamp it, and you want to revamp the -- 20 upgrade the system not just to meet those 50 customers; you 21 got to do it to meet, say, 100 customers, you know, for the 22 life of the equipment. You want to make sure it's big 23 enough. So, if you just had a -- if you wanted these 24 customers just to pay for what they got, their rates would be 25 a lot higher than what they are. You know, there is a cost. 4-9-12 72 1 Regionalization does bring the cost down over everybody, and 2 you hope that the utility spends the same amount of money in 3 this system as it does that system, and so it's all staying 4 relatively -- you know, we're all staying about the same, 5 'cause you can't make the same amount of improvements all the 6 time. If you come in, you're going to make a major 7 improvement, and then you may go 20 years before anything 8 else. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a comment, 10 'cause you agreed with a couple things. Part of what's in 11 the resolution in two areas -- I was going to mention this 12 even before, but what they're doing by this resolution, and 13 they say it in black and white, in -- in the Austin area, 14 they buy water there, and I think, like, 13.99 an acre foot. 15 That cost is being paid for by the ratepayers in Kerr County. 16 They flat say they are. Edwards Aquifer Authority and a lot 17 of the other water districts charge pumping fees. Kerr 18 County doesn't. Those fees that -- that, you know, Edwards 19 Aquifer Authority are paying to Edwards is being charged to 20 these ratepayers here. 21 MR. WIEDENFELD: And the same way -- I mean, I lump 22 all mine together, Edwards Aquifer -- now, Edwards Aquifer 23 fined me last year cause they used too much water in one 24 system, $1,200. You know, for using 1 acre foot too much, 25 you know. So, it's like -- you know, so you kind of put this 4-9-12 73 1 in your rate structure, that you have the opportunity to pass 2 these costs on. You know, it's -- I took that as that 3 they're passing -- trying to just get it into their rates so 4 they can -- can pass this on to their customers. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They are passing it on, and at 6 $1.08 per 100,000 gallons. 7 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's a new fee that's never 9 been approved anywhere before. 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: I agree that y'all have a local 11 hearing. I think those local issues, I think it will come 12 out. And -- and, again, if y'all -- if y'all -- the 13 customers and everybody agree with, you know, having more 14 localized rate structures, you know, it's just going to throw 15 that whole concept of regionalization out the window with the 16 State. And, you know, they just bought off on it. They -- 17 you know, so, any other questions? I know y'all say, 18 "Charlie, go home, take a shower." 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No. Charlie, you made one point 20 that -- 21 MR. WIEDENFELD: One? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you're 1 acre foot over, and they 23 jump on you like a chicken on a junebug. What about the big 24 guy? Do they jump on the big guys like that? 25 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I hope so. I hope the 4-9-12 74 1 government is fair. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope so, that everybody's treated 3 fairly. But that's my point. You know, you've heard of the 4 golden rule, haven't you? 5 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, yes, I think so. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. "He who has the gold makes 7 the rules." Do you think there's some of that going on? 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: No. They got investors that are 9 bigger than me, you know. I'm a sole -- sole stockholder, 10 and they got a lot of them pushing them guys, and if they 11 want to see a 6 and a half percent return, that's what 12 they're going to go in for a rate for. If they want 8 13 percent return on their money they put in, they're going to 14 tell Aqua Texas, "You file a rate case, and we're going to go 15 for it." Whether they get it or not, you know, that's 16 what -- like I say, they got to go to Austin or have the 17 hearing process. It will be three years from now before 18 that's ever decided. Yes, we can put our rates into effect 19 60 days after we provide proper notice, but we may have to 20 refund it all too. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But all the resolution is 22 saying is that we -- there needs to be a public hearing. 23 That's all it says. 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay. Well, and I'm just saying 25 Kerr County Commissioners should get out of private business. 4-9-12 75 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, you said that we 2 were going to say go home and take a bath. Get with Rusty 3 and go with him. 4 MR. WIEDENFELD: He knows where to go? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Just stay with Rusty 6 today. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're still not getting a 8 badge, Buster. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Charlie. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else that wishes to be heard 12 with respect to this issue? I would make one point that I -- 13 I do think needs to go in the resolution; that the -- the 14 regionalization concept, in essence, permits an 15 investor-owned utility to buy an under-performing, 16 out-of-compliance system for virtually nothing, and to 17 upgrade that system and charge it to customers outside of 18 where that's being upgraded, and, in essence, get the 19 ratepayers to capitalize their assets. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the fuzzy accounting on trying 22 to pin them down on where they're spending the money where 23 you've got a number of systems spread out over -- I was 24 amazed. And Charlie talked about -- talked about the same 25 electrical utility, same aquifer, all -- all these 4-9-12 76 1 commonality factors. And I suspect Aqua Texas to be 2 hard-pressed to come up with a commonality, except that one 3 that they're interested in, which is m-o-n-e-y. That's the 4 commonality in what they're dealing with. And if, in fact, 5 they're required to show commonality, I'm at a loss to figure 6 out what those are. But tracing the money, I think, is 7 difficult. The colonel made a point that -- that if they 8 win, you get to pay all their costs. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If they lose, you get to pay all 11 their costs. And believe me, they don't spare the horses 12 when they hire the lawyers, the engineers, the consultants, 13 the actuarials. They run that tab up, and they run it up 14 strong 'cause they know they're going to get it back. All it 15 is is a delayed capital expenditure for them; they get it all 16 back. And I -- I'm really, really disappointed in what the 17 State has done, and I think that's the inequity. The 18 unfairness in the situation is that each of these systems is 19 not being treated as a separate capital asset to determine 20 what are they or are they not entitled to receive? I'm 21 reminded of a number of years ago, when the Kerrville South 22 Water Company was proposing a rate increase, before 23 regionalization. The CAG leadership sat down with them and 24 said, "Okay, let's talk about this. We will not oppose that 25 rate increase if you will upgrade your system to do the 4-9-12 77 1 following," and there was a grocery list based upon a lot of 2 the engineering studies and pressure studies and all the 3 various things that go into it for that particular system. 4 Kerrville South Water Company says, "Okay, that's a deal. 5 We'll do that." And they did, and the Kerrville South 6 residents got the benefit of that, and they're paying for 7 that benefit. And they got what they bargained for. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And happy to do so. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So that was the end of it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're -- there's a list of 11 things that should be included in here, actually. And I -- 12 when I was reading this last week, I thought of that. You 13 know, we need to -- we need to break out all these things and 14 detail them. I personally think it's covered in this -- in 15 the -- where you have the representatives' names in there. 16 Somehow, a master list of all these things, like -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I left the final Resolved about 18 the state representative and state senator broad, because I 19 thought it was really -- that is -- that's kind of the next 20 step, to get information to them. I had it -- one version 21 had it -- started trying to list things, and then it starts 22 getting worse, so it's easier just to make it just that they 23 need to look at this overall problem and address it, in my 24 mind. The other thing is, you know, the comments -- a 25 general comment about Mr. Wiedenfeld's kind of -- that you 4-9-12 78 1 can't really compare municipals versus investor-owned. Well, 2 I thought that way until I read the notice, and the notice 3 clearly compares the two and says you should compare the two 4 in the application. I mean, it -- I didn't -- you know, a 5 lot of the information about the City of Kerrville is in the 6 application also. It talks about the municipal, I believe. 7 So, I think that's very justified to do that, and that you 8 should kind of -- you know, it's privately owned. At the 9 same time, it's regulated by the government. It's a lot like 10 insurance. It's not a true private industry, in my mind. 11 But, anyway, we can make some changes or we can pass it. 12 I'll make a motion to go ahead and approve the resolution as 13 modified today. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 16 indicated. Question or discussion? Ma'am, you had a 17 comment? If you'll tell us your name and address, and tell 18 us what you've got on this. 19 MS. KEEN: My name is Cassandra Keen. I'm part of 20 the CAG group, and I'm a board member of the CAG committee. 21 I got involved in this for several reasons. Again, many 22 things that you've said has been most appropriate, but before 23 you do your final approval, the last thing that got my 24 attention, and why I am here twice in Commissioners Court, is 25 because they've also put in the application, as Mr. Cathey 4-9-12 79 1 has pointed out to us, that not only are they doing all of 2 this, which is very unfair, we believe, but they also are 3 going to take away our right to protest this. And that is, 4 to me, the ultimate in un-Americanness in this whole thing, 5 is that they want to take away our ability to protest this in 6 the future. That's absolutely unforgivable, in my mind. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 8 MS. KEEN: And I will fight as long as I can fight 9 and go all the way to Austin and do what I need to do. 10 Because I have, and my neighbors have, and all of you here 11 are in America because we have a right to protest and explain 12 when we think something's being done unfairly, and by George, 13 this is one of those. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 15 (Applause.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: One part of the resolution -- one 17 part of the actual resolution itself is that T.C.E.Q. should 18 not approve any mechanism whereby any future rate increases 19 of any kind can be approved administratively, and without the 20 process of public hearing. 21 MS. KEEN: That is correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's your point. 23 MS. KEEN: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the other point is, 25 too, what you're saying, you shouldn't have to pay to be able 4-9-12 80 1 to protest. 2 MS. KEEN: No. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The price has already been 4 paid. 5 MS. KEEN: Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For freedom. 7 MS. KEEN: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's wrong to be charged for 9 your right to protest. That's absolutely asinine. 10 MS. KEEN: That is correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments from any member 12 of the public hearing here today? Any other questions or 13 comments from any member of the Court with regard to the 14 motion before the Court? All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's take about 20 a 15-minute recess. We'll get to you in just a minute. 21 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 11 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order, if we 24 might, from our morning break. We have a 10:15 item that is 25 up next, Item 13, a presentation regarding pilot project for 4-9-12 81 1 a new medical innovation between Peterson Regional Medical 2 Center, Methodist Hospital of Houston, Texas, and Schreiner 3 University, and request for resolution in support of same. 4 Mr. Truett Airhart is here with -- 5 MR. AIRHART: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that project, and I'm going to 7 hand it over to you. 8 MR. AIRHART: Can hear me back there okay? Okay. 9 After 20, 30 years on Capitol Hill, I've discovered that the 10 first thing you do when you meet with those folks is you tell 11 them exactly what you're after, because they know you're 12 after something, and if you don't tell them up front, they're 13 worrying about what it is, so they're not listening to you. 14 So, I'll tell you what I'm after here today, almost. Not 15 quite. I'm not after a total resolution, because there are a 16 few loose ends to tie down, but this is mainly to create 17 awareness of a very unique opportunity, and what I'm hoping 18 to do ultimately is get endorsement of the County 19 Commissioners, along with some others. And I've got to be 20 perfectly candid; if I can't convince you guys, then this is 21 dead, because I've been funding this out of my own hip pocket 22 now for four or five months, and I just can't continue to 23 chase a rabbit. But I think I'll convince you that this is 24 worth pursuing, or that's my objective in the next few 25 minutes. 4-9-12 82 1 Now, in summary, I'm thinking about a 1.5 million 2 grant. And I'm not certain that's enough, but for what we're 3 talking about, this is chickenfeed, compared. Okay? And 4 we're talking about a two-year pilot project involving two 5 innovative health care technologies. As a matter of fact, 6 these two technologies are going to play a major role in 7 providing a segment for the overall health care crisis that 8 we're living in now. I've approached H.E.B. and Cailloux 9 preliminarily. We have to go back to both of them for the 10 money. And I'm thinking about maybe the Brinkman and the 11 Bass organization, 'cause they're -- they have pretty strong 12 social consciences too. But I've got in the door at H.E.B. 13 and Cailloux; there's a lot more work to do. Now, Peterson 14 Hospital will be the primary contractor, if you please, of 15 this. They will be the primary beneficiary, but Schreiner 16 University and Methodist Hospital in Houston would be 17 subcontractors. 18 Now, I've met with -- with Tim Summerlin at 19 Schreiner, and of all things -- it's a small world. He and I 20 are related. We both had a relative in the Alamo named Al 21 Spain Summerlin, and he was way ahead of me. He said he was 22 17 years old; he died with a saber wound through his heart. 23 And so we're related, absolutely. But Schreiner's very 24 supportive of this. I haven't talked to Pat Murray at the 25 hospital, 'cause I know he's been pretty busy, but I've sent 4-9-12 83 1 him updates, e-mails and documents. So, here's how I see the 2 potential of this over the long haul. And, see, you can 3 never see the true value of something in the early stages. 4 My experience in the computer business goes back to the first 5 day they were delivered. I was a punch card operator five 6 years before the first computer was delivered, so I've been 7 there and I've done that. And I have seen change take place, 8 and I won't bore you with all that, but you ain't seen 9 nothing yet compared to what you're about to hear right now. 10 Okay. 11 So, it would be financial support for Peterson and 12 Schreiner, and I think ultimately, they can gain new patients 13 and they can gain new students as a result of this project, 14 so it could be additional revenue for both organizations. I 15 think we can gain great publicity, because this will have 16 international interest if we can move fast enough. And if we 17 wait, someone like an IBM or a General Electric will pick 18 this up. But I know how these folks work. The first thing 19 they're going to ask is, what's the risk? The next thing 20 they're going to ask, how big is the market? Then they're 21 going to ask, how do we take on that market? Do we use 22 people -- we have them, we train them, so if they make a 23 decision by next Thanksgiving, I'll be surprised. So, I'm 24 going to push this, and it's either going to happen or not 25 happen in a hurry. So, I think it could ultimately add to 4-9-12 84 1 the population here, because a lot of people would like to 2 live in Kerrville if they can make a living. And you'll 3 understand more about what I'm talking about when I finish 4 the presentation. 5 And then above all this is the contribution to 6 society, because we all know we have a health care crisis 7 right now, and no one has -- has the right solution, in my 8 opinion. And this isn't a solution, but it will be a major 9 contributor in the field of surgery, all right? Now, I had 10 dinner with some friends in Houston last week, and I talked 11 about this. They said, "Why Kerrville?" I said, "Well, it's 12 large enough to be relevant, and small enough to be 13 efficient." Because if this went into the medical center in 14 Houston, which is like a city -- you know, it's the largest 15 in the world by a factor of two. All those hospitals hate 16 each other. They are competitors, all right? And we don't 17 have that situation here. We have all the pieces to the 18 puzzle, in my opinion. We have a state-of-the-art hospital, 19 a blue chip academic organization. And I think if you 20 calculated the ratio of the population to intelligence in 21 Kerrville, we look very good. There are a lot of smart 22 people here that we can rely on. 23 So, how -- how would we do this, the two-year pilot 24 project involving dramatic new medical innovations? You see, 25 I speak with experience. You never see the true value of a 4-9-12 85 1 tool in the early stages. You have to go through a 2 learning -- take the telephone. They first thought it would 3 be used to broadcast symphonies to orchestras that didn't 4 have -- didn't have orchestras. Many people thought the 5 personal computer was a gimmick; now you can't live without 6 one. So, we have to go through a learning process to 7 understand the true value of what I'm about to tell you. 8 Now, every new technology goes through three steps. First 9 you have the breakthrough. In other words, now you can do 10 something you couldn't do before this. Now, the second one 11 is you normally recognize something very specialized, and 12 that's the way you start, but then over time it evolves into 13 a general purpose tool. And I've been through this many, 14 many times over the last 60 years. I know how long it is, 15 'cause my wife and I were just married about the time I got 16 into the computer business, and that was about 61 years ago, 17 so you don't forget that. And that in itself is a miracle. 18 She probably should have shot me about 30 years ago. 19 So, the other factor is the synergy you get from -- 20 from integration. In other words, you put Tool A with Tool B 21 and you get Tool C. Now, what you're normally doing is 22 you're exporting your strengths; you're minimizing their 23 weaknesses, so now Tool C is a brand-new tool, but it has to 24 go through the learning curve. We have to keep this in mind. 25 So, I know you've all heard that Peterson has the da Vinci 4-9-12 86 1 surgical process, all right? It's an automated -- it's not 2 robotic, because the doctor is actually running this thing. 3 And to give you a current example, my niece -- one of my 4 nieces just had surgery for the second time. The first time 5 was the old cut-and-peek approach, the old-fashioned way. 6 She had it done with da Vinci; she went home the same day. 7 She didn't stay in the hospital. It's less pain, less blood 8 loss, less time in the hospital, and recovery. 9 So, think of this nationwide for the surgical 10 process if you can minimize these things. What does it cost 11 today for a hospital room for one day? You know. And she 12 said with the first surgery, she was in intense pain, in the 13 hospital for two days. It was brutal, and then it took weeks 14 to recover. And she's already back at work, and she went 15 home the same day. So, the problem is, the da Vinci process 16 takes more time than the old-fashioned way, all right? So, 17 we're going to take that on, but there are over 1,000 of 18 these things installed. They're relatively new, but this is 19 going to grow, because the benefits are to the patient more 20 than anything. Now, here's the new one. And in all my years 21 in computers, I've never seen anything like this before. 22 This was developed by Methodist Hospital in Houston. That's 23 the largest hospital -- medical center in the world by a 24 factor of two. And Methodist is recognized as one of the 25 leading hospitals in the United States. 4-9-12 87 1 They call it Plato's CAVE. Now, CAVE is an acronym 2 for Computer Augmented Virtual Environment. Now, what in the 3 hell does that mean? I mean, that's an intellectual 4 description of a very complex process. So, here's what I say 5 it means. It means graphic-driven decision support. Because 6 I've been doing this in industry and the military for years 7 now. You use the pictures to find the data. And a more 8 simple -- it's just more accurate, rapid decisions using 9 pictures, and this is the wave of the future. You see GIS; 10 you see GPS. I live on the river, and there's an island 11 across from me I'd like to buy. So, I went out on -- on 12 Junction Highway. The young man pulls up a -- a satellite 13 picture of my house and this island. He clicked, gave me the 14 names of the owners. I mean, this is the wave of the future. 15 Everybody is using smart pictures to find knowledge, okay? 16 Now, they can take any CAT scan, MRI, or PET scan 17 and they change it to dynamic, all right? They can defer it 18 to three dimensions, which is height, width, and depth. Four 19 dimensions, which I'd never heard of; that's pulse. Okay. 20 And five dimensions; that's flow. They can go inside and 21 look in your colon -- they'll show you in this demo -- and 22 see the polyps. So, the surgeon knows exactly what's there 23 and you know what and where, so the incision maybe is like 24 this instead of like this. This is the -- the pain and the 25 blood loss they were talking about. And this technology, 4-9-12 88 1 there's nothing else like this in the world, and I'm trying 2 to bring to it Kerrville, okay? No one else has this but 3 Methodist Hospital at this time. 4 Now, talk about intelligent graphics. Refineries, 5 chemical plants, and nuclear plants now are using 6 two-dimensional tools, like a piping and instrumentation 7 diagram. You can point and click on that. And if there's a 8 pump, you point and click on that; then it gives you a menu. 9 What do you want to see? Maintenance records, inspection 10 records, manufacturer's data. So, it gives you rapid access 11 to the knowledge you need to operate and maintain that pump. 12 Now, in the nuclear industry, what they're doing is they're 13 laser scanning the nuclear plant so you can do a virtual 14 walk-through, an electronic walk-through in an area that has 15 high radiation, all right? Now, that's from the scan, but a 16 scan is like a fax. You can look at it, but you can't do 17 anything with it. So, they can convert to 3D through a 18 model, all right? That way, if you see a pump in your 19 walk-through, you can point and click on that pump and it'll 20 bring up the menu. So, this is the latest trend. This is 21 the way things are going. 22 Now, what's the most complicated refinery and 23 chemical plant in the world? It's the human body. Think 24 about it. This is the challenge. And so what we've done 25 now, it's a unique approach. And adding these two 4-9-12 89 1 dimensions, it increases the intelligence of this file, all 2 right? So, this means that the surgeon, before he goes into 3 the da Vinci device, can look at an object that's going to be 4 operated on, all right, and turn it sideways, turn it upside 5 down, anything they want, so the surgeon will be better 6 prepared for the surgical process when he gets to the 7 automated process. So this is one of our objectives, is to 8 try to reduce the time of the surgeon, because the time of 9 the medical profession is one of the most valuable resources 10 we have in the United States right now. 11 So, each dimension adds additional value, all 12 right? But we have a learning process. But they are now 13 adding interactive hand and voice commands. You can go to a 14 full scan to this -- this display unit, put your hand like 15 this, and it gives you a choice of several colors, so you 16 pick your color. You just point to it. Then -- then you 17 draw a circle around the organ you're after, okay? Now, I 18 was there last week -- a week ago. Walter Reed Hospital had 19 three doctors there. One of them was a surgeon, and they 20 showed the brain as an example. So, they pointed and clicked 21 on the area -- you know, the brain has different functions, 22 and it brings up a whole list of options that this surgeon 23 can have to know how to deal with that. 24 And then looking forward, the field of artificial 25 intelligence has so much potential, and that's very simple. 4-9-12 90 1 You pick the brains of the leading surgeons, all right, and 2 then you automate that. So, if the surgeon encounters 3 something during surgery that he's never seen before, it's 4 possible there's been another surgeon that's encountered 5 that. They can use the hand gestures and get into the 6 artificial -- artificial intelligence is the enabler for a 7 lot of our health care problems. I won't get into that. 8 Okay. Now, what Plato has done -- it's in that second stage, 9 because what they've done, they've identified surgery as the 10 prospect, okay? It's in that second stage, but it is 11 operational. In other words, they are actually doing this 12 for another hospital, so this is not blue sky, and it's not a 13 prototype. 14 Now, here are some of the perceived values. I 15 think we'll be able to identify unnecessary surgeries by 16 having full access to the full content of the body. All 17 right? It will add superior surgical planning, excellent 18 training. Think about the use for this in medical school. 19 Think what it'll do for the doctor -- young doctors. Now, 20 here's one that's really sensitive on my part. The American 21 Medical Association should be strung up by its thumbs, 22 because they lacked the vision to see the need for a 23 standardized electronic medical record 30 years ago. The 24 V.A. Hospital saw it, and you should go out there and see how 25 they handle things. It's incredible. So, now we have 15 4-9-12 91 1 different proprietary, expensive, electronic medical record 2 systems out there, but what is more standard than the human 3 body? 4 Now, this will be a long-range objective, but just 5 think of it. If you had a full body scan and you had that on 6 a flash drive, and you go to the doctor, the doctor would put 7 that in, circle the item that's of interest. This is the way 8 things are going, and all of this is doable. It's just going 9 to take time. And this is what we want to do in Kerrville, 10 is to start learning as an objective. In other words, this 11 is real. It can be done, but we're going to have to go 12 through the same learning process that we always do. And, in 13 my opinion, you ain't seen nothing yet. In other words, 14 there is more to come on this, because I have seen this time 15 and time again, where you never see it early on. You have to 16 learn. So, you say, "Is there any risk involved in this?" 17 Always. I mean, in the early days of setting people up on 18 the computer, I say, "I'll give you one written guarantee. 19 There's going to be some confusion." Okay? But I know about 20 what you're doing; we'll solve the problem. And if we hit a 21 bump in the road on this, we'll go around it. We'll get 22 through it. But if I stood here and told you guys that this 23 thing's going to kick off and it's going to be a straight 24 line from here to there, no way. No way. But the solutions 25 are there. 4-9-12 92 1 Now, how about the validity? I'm enthusiastic 2 about this. But look at the people who have seen this. 3 Walter Reed Hospital. I was there in D.C. two weeks ago. 4 They had three doctors there for two hours. Johns Hopkins. 5 They have an annual discretionary grant fund of a billion 6 dollars, and, of course, this is trying to get some of that. 7 IBM has seen it. Let me tell you how the military's excited. 8 If they do a full body scan as part of a physical, then they 9 put a CAVE operation close to a battlefield, they bring in an 10 injured war fighter, they'll do a body scan. They just 11 overlay it. They will put on it top of the old one, and 12 they're going to see exactly what's wrong. This is why the 13 military is excited. The United Arab Emirates -- I don't 14 trust those people, but -- but they've been there and they've 15 seen it, and they have a lot of money, so you can't be too 16 picky when you're looking for money. 17 Battelle. I have heard of Battelle for years. 18 That's a nonprofit organization. It's a six million dollar 19 organization, and they helped develop some of this. The 20 Mitre Corporation; that is another one like Battelle. They 21 deal with the CIA and people of that caliber. Memorial 22 Hermann Hospital is already sending CAT scans and MRI's to 23 Methodist, so this is working. Now, listen to this. The 24 President of Panama has seen this. He wants Central and 25 South America -- and then he has sent people down. He wants 4-9-12 93 1 to attract tourists -- think about it -- to come get a full 2 body scan and to get access to this type of technology. So, 3 think about Kerrville. Think how we might be able to attract 4 people, okay, if we can pull this off. Okay. And then I put 5 in numerous individuals. One wants to open China and Korea. 6 Another one wants to open India. All right. 7 And quite frankly, you know, everything I'm telling 8 you about Kerrville, the amount of compensation I'm going to 9 get plus $2 will buy me a coffee at Starbucks, if you can get 10 one for $2 any more. I was changing planes in Atlanta a 11 couple weeks ago, and I ordered draft beer, and do you know 12 how much it cost? Eight dollars. So, things are kind of 13 changing these days. But, anyhow, we're looking into 14 different market opportunities. And I may get involved in 15 something over there, but the Kerrville project is a labor of 16 love. It's not anything that I'm going to get one penny out 17 of. 18 So, here are the objectives. We want to determine 19 the synergy between the CAVE and the da Vinci. We want to 20 specifically try to shorten the learning curve. We will have 21 people working on this study that will try to look for the 22 new values and so on, so we can document this, and it's not 23 inconceivable they could publish the results and sell it. I 24 don't know that that's going to happen. You know, this could 25 be just for the public good. But what I'm hoping for is if 4-9-12 94 1 we can pull this off and get it going, there will be ongoing 2 development, and we can go get more money, because H.E.B. is 3 a very generous organization, and so is Cailloux. Everyone's 4 familiar with both of those. So, if we could pull this off, 5 okay -- now, I'm not asking for endorsement today, because 6 there are a couple of little items, you know, I need to track 7 down. We need to understand the access to high-speed 8 communications. I know that Verizon is not going to bring 4G 9 to Kerrville till next year, but I see AT&T is building a new 10 building out across from Walmart, and maybe they will have 11 the broadband that we need to communicate with. 12 So, anyhow, here's the proposal. Apply the project 13 for two years. 1.5 million, and that's subject to change. 14 That might be two; I don't know. But we're going to make a 15 more detailed study, because the Cailloux group, you submit a 16 request to them, and if they like the looks of it, then you 17 come back with a full-scale proposal, and that's going to 18 take some work, and I'm going to need some help to do that. 19 The prime contractor will be Peterson Hospital. They are the 20 subcontractors. And let me mention another possibility for 21 Schreiner Institute. The CAVE requires a console operator. 22 It's a young woman in Houston that operates this thing, and 23 she's the only person in the world that knows how to do this. 24 So, there's a demand for training, and what better facility 25 than the nursing school at Schreiner? You see, they could 4-9-12 95 1 conduct seminars, because training for this is not a college 2 semester. It's probably a two- or three-day -- this could be 3 done face-to-face or it could be done with a WebEx. But the 4 demand, in my opinion, is going to be tremendous for trained 5 console operators, because this is a critical element, so 6 it's a good opportunity for -- for Schreiner. 7 Now, we have an option. Instead of installing the 8 CAVE in total at Peterson, we could let them do the scanning 9 here, transmit it to Methodist; they would do their magic and 10 then send it back. Now, they'll have to have the console 11 operation and everything here, but if we get to where we have 12 to cut costs, we can reduce it somewhat by taking that as the 13 initial approach, okay? A little time will tell on that. 14 So, in summary, what I'm looking after is to get endorsement 15 from this group when the time is right, 'cause I still need a 16 couple of more loose ends to tie down, from the County 17 Commissioners. And, as I said earlier, if I can't sell you 18 guys, I'm quitting -- I quit. I'm out of here, because I'm 19 -- I can't continue to chase this rabbit. All right? 20 I talked with Tim Summerlin, and I'm going to ask 21 him to get board members, if he will, if they're a believer 22 in this. And I'll talk to Pat Murray to see if he can get 23 board members from the hospital, and then if we come in with 24 a request for the funds with all these endorsements, 25 they'll -- the probability of getting it, I think, will go up 4-9-12 96 1 in order of magnitude. So, that's it. And if I can answer 2 any questions, I'll be glad to right now. Anybody have any 3 questions? 4 MR. MOSER: Judge, if I may, I'm not in the same 5 field that you are, but technologies, all through the space 6 programs, from Apollo to space station. 7 MR. AIRHART: Okay. 8 MR. MOSER: What he's proposing, as a citizen of 9 Kerr County, is extremely exciting. I can see -- I mean, 10 that was a beautiful presentation. 11 MR. AIRHART: Thank you. 12 MR. MOSER: It was extremely well done. It's -- 13 this thing has so much opportunity, knowing just -- I mean, I 14 only know about what I've just been listening to you say. 15 MR. AIRHART: Right. 16 MR. MOSER: But this is extremely valuable to this 17 community. You know, anything that I could do just as a 18 citizen to help, you know, be more than happy to. 19 MR. AIRHART: Absolutely. Well, I have a couple of 20 people in mind that have the right kind of background that 21 could be a project manager for this, and that's not me. I 22 don't do windows or projects. I don't manage projects or 23 wash the windows. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Truett, I'd like to say also, 25 you know, just your -- we were just talking before, and I 4-9-12 97 1 seen you were on the agenda today. You have, you said, a 2 love for your community. The other thing is, of course, your 3 vision for the community as long-term is just remarkable, and 4 I think part of this project would also include that. I know 5 that you're going to visit with Pat and the board; that their 6 feedback is critical, I mean, obviously, for it to move 7 forward. 8 MR. AIRHART: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's important for all the 10 others, I think, that are endorsing that, and that 11 opportunity. I'd also encourage you not to just label just 12 those three endorsements up there, but I would also have you 13 make a similar presentation to our new economic development 14 group here -- 15 MR. AIRHART: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: -- as well. I think an 17 endorsement from them, because that represents all the 18 partners in the community, is -- is very critical for this 19 project to even move forward. But I would encourage you to 20 do that, and I think there are some other endorsements that 21 you could probably review as well. 22 MR. AIRHART: Well, I charge 25 cents for my -- 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We'll get you a cup of 24 coffee. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I paid the last fee that we 4-9-12 98 1 -- we contracted. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Five dollars, wasn't it? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I gave him 10 'cause I felt 4 bad. 5 MR. AIRHART: Well, if anyone else has any ideas 6 where we can get some money, we'll -- you know. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How long has the Methodist 8 Hospital been using the technology? 9 MR. AIRHART: They've just been using it recently. 10 They've been working on it three years. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 12 MR. AIRHART: And strangely enough, the Methodist 13 hierarchy, I guess, they all have a certain amount of 14 political capital they use, and they must have already 15 allocated a lot of this. They're supporting it. They're not 16 recommending they patent it, because you have to expose too 17 much when you patent. And like going to China, I'm telling 18 you, you offer this as a service, not software, they'll steal 19 it in a year, you know. They're going to steal that console 20 in a year anyhow. You can't -- you can't -- you know, can't 21 ignore that. Or, you know, that's going to take place. But 22 if we can do this and get it in motion, and keep it in 23 motion, Kerrville could get international publicity, because 24 this is -- the thing that gives me encouragement is, look at 25 all the people who've seen this. These are not dummies. IBM 4-9-12 99 1 has put a heavy hitter on this thing, and they don't miss 2 very often. But I'll guarantee you, if we don't do 3 something, someone like G.E. is going to pick it up. It's 4 going to be a money maker. 5 And I've told Dr. Butler there -- he is the doctor 6 at Methodist -- for crying out loud, if you go for venture 7 money, make sure they have some social tendencies, you know. 8 I told them the best way dealing with the venture people is 9 use the LCS system; that's lying, cheating, and stealing. 10 (Laughter.) And -- 'cause these people will -- I mean, they 11 take you -- they call them vulture capitalists. So, I've 12 also been able to tell the doctor, beware; that a scanned 13 image at 1200 dots per inch is good enough for the human eye, 14 but they may not be good enough for an automated system. 15 You're going to have to have a quality control system in 16 there to make certain the scans you get are the proper 17 quality. And I also told him, if you go sell this, sell from 18 the top down, because at the operating level -- and 19 particularly old doctors aren't going to want to change what 20 they're doing. 21 We see this every day. The baby boomers, thank God 22 they're starting to retire, and this young generation -- this 23 young generation is coming in, and they have to be our 24 salvation. I mean, they are incredible. They are absolutely 25 incredible. But they can't work with outdated tools. That's 4-9-12 100 1 going to cause desynchronization. They don't know what -- 2 you heard the story about the teenager who never used a 3 toaster before? He picked up a piece of bread; he said, 4 "Does it go in landscape or portrait?" (Laughter.) This is 5 the way they think. And so we have a tremendous resource at 6 hand. But we're in the midst of a workforce transition 7 period now we have never encountered before. I won't get off 8 on that, but -- but we have -- we have a lot of opportunity 9 here. And, like I say, there are a few more loose ends. 10 They're just now starting to develop the cost of doing it 11 yourself or the cost of using their service and things like 12 this. I just got this over the weekend, so I need to digest 13 all that. So -- but some of the contractors, like the 14 software, those doctors are probably going to horse -- I'll 15 horse-trade with them. I want it wholesale, 'cause this is 16 research that we're doing here. So, anyhow, it's a lot of 17 fun. This is the type of thing I enjoy doing, and I hope we 18 can pull it off. Thank you much for your time. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a representative from 23 Peterson Regional Medical Center here. I wasn't going to put 24 you on the spot, but I'll give you the opportunity. 25 MR. PAUTLER: I'll just - I'm Steve Pautler, Chief 4-9-12 101 1 Operating Officer at Peterson Regional Medical Center. I'd 2 like to give what I'll characterize as a few initial 3 impressions. I'm familiar with working in an education 4 research environment. Most of my time as an intensive care 5 unit nurse was in a quaternary level hospital in St. Louis, 6 Barnes Hospital. It's always in the top five research and 7 education facilities. I also was the administrator of Custer 8 Community Hospital where there are more buffalo than people, 9 so I've been on both ends of the technology spectrum. I 10 characterize this proposal as preliminary. We have no 11 agreements with Methodist or with Mr. Airhart. We would 12 anticipate this -- love the enthusiasm. We love that people 13 want us to improve, and we're very pleased to do that. What 14 he's describing is used in an education and research 15 environment, and we are a community hospital that's -- that 16 doesn't have the infrastructure at this time to capitalize on 17 that kind of research and investment that's required to do 18 that kind of work. You need lots of other technical folks. 19 He's describing probably project managers that 20 would run out -- run down this kind of technology, and that's 21 just not the kind of thing we have now. We're pleased to 22 monitor the development. We're ready to use technology 23 that's ready for us. And he cited the da Vinci surgical 24 system, and to give you an example, there are about 1,000 25 installs, give or take; it's been in use for about 10 years, 4-9-12 102 1 give or take. And one of the reasons that it's appropriate 2 for Peterson now is because there has been enough work on it 3 that the surgeons that were trained here in laparoscopic 4 surgery in their residency, the tools, the techniques, the 5 surgical approach has been refined to the point that we can 6 take good advantage of it with minimal surgeon training, 7 without having to do all the learning that's involved in -- 8 in that process, and at a time when health care money's at a 9 premium, surgeon training's at a premium, O.R. staff time is 10 at a premium. 11 And, honestly, we're giving away a million and a 12 half dollars or more in charity care every month, and so our 13 focus has to be and is now on making sure we take care of 14 everyone who needs that care in the community. And so this 15 would represent a significant extension of resources in that 16 direction. It's not impossible, but there is significant 17 refinement necessary for us to be ready to do anything of 18 this nature. So, questions on that? Or -- 19 MR. AIRHART: Well I didn't mean to imply that I 20 had any kind of relationship with -- I'm on the council for 21 Methodist, but I'm not representing them. And -- and this -- 22 I was hoping that once we got to the point to prepare a 23 detailed budget, that Peterson would be involved. And if you 24 need more money, just say so. 25 MR. PAUTLER: Well, there's money, and then there's 4-9-12 103 1 the people who are able to use it in a way that will move the 2 project forward. 3 MR. AIRHART: That's correct. I understand. 4 MR. PAUTLER: And that -- we're tight on both. 5 MR. AIRHART: I understand. Well, all I know to 6 do -- I'm an entrepreneur; that's French for unemployed. 7 (Laughter.) I see opportunities, I find people, and I find 8 capital. And so this one has been exciting to me, and in no 9 way am I representing Peterson -- 10 MR. PAUTLER: Right. I don't think that you did. 11 I don't think you misrepresented. I just wanted to make sure 12 that they knew that there -- there's a lot more in terms of 13 agreements and understanding and infrastructure that would 14 have to take place. 15 MR. AIRHART: Absolutely. 16 MR. PAUTLER: And so the timeline may be -- it's 17 going to be extensive. It's not going to be this calendar 18 year that anything like this could come to fruition. 19 MR. AIRHART: Okay. Well, it is officially dead. 20 Thank you. I'm sorry that this didn't work out. I'm -- I'm 21 going to go do some other things, but I -- I can't -- I can't 22 tolerate that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you had an opportunity to 24 schedule a meeting with the -- with the board of Peterson? 25 MR. AIRHART: No. No, I haven't even talked to Pat 4-9-12 104 1 Murray. I've just sent documents and e-mails to him to make 2 him aware of what I was doing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. AIRHART: So -- but I -- I cannot continue. 5 I've been to D.C. twice, been out to the hospital five or six 6 times, and I just can't continue. So, I -- I surrender, pure 7 and simple, and I'll go back to doing other things. So, I 8 appreciate your time, and any way I can help in any other 9 way, let me know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Mr. Airhart. 12 MR. AIRHART: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your community interest, 14 and -- 15 MR. AIRHART: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- your desire to improve virtually 17 everything in Kerrville. 18 MR. AIRHART: Very good. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thank you. 20 MR. AIRHART: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 16, which is a 22 10:30 item -- it's a bit past that, obviously -- to consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing for 24 the County Clerk's Records Archival Plan for the budget cycle 25 2012/13 for May 14, 2012, at 10:45 a.m. 4-9-12 105 1 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, since we're starting our 2 budget process, the records archival statute states that this 3 is part of my budget process that I have to go through. I do 4 a written plan; we have to have a public hearing, and then 5 y'all approve it during our budget process. So, I need to 6 set a public hearing. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What date? 8 MS. PIEPER: May 14th at 10:45. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 12 public hearing on the matter for May 14, 2012, at 10:45 a.m. 13 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you. 19 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is to consider, discuss, 21 take appropriate action to authorize the county surveyor to 22 locate various structures and utilities that are presently 23 not identified on the survey of the Hill Country Youth 24 Exhibit Center property, the work to be done prior to 25 construction. Commissioner Oehler? 4-9-12 106 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. Peter -- we had a 2 meeting last week about the Ag Barn project. I asked that we 3 have the county surveyor locate several of the structures 4 that are now presently not located on the site plan. This 5 one, I believe, was done in 1993. It locates everything 6 except for the propane tank and the two holding tanks for the 7 drains within the hog barn and the indoor arena. And he'd 8 like to have those located exactly before we start tearing 9 down stuff and rebuilding. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, to even expand on 11 it, we probably ought to have this updated to put the -- the 12 new rodeo -- the outdoor arena needs to be located on there, 13 and we ought to get all -- just a current of all our other 14 property. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Current survey of the entire 16 property. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You said 1993, Bruce? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's what this says, 19 '93. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least -- I don't know if we 21 need the whole property, 'cause that includes the Little 22 League fields and that, but just the Hill Country Youth 23 Exhibit portion. And we really need to get that updated so 24 we can start. You know, we haven't done a major improvement 25 from -- of the underground part. 4-9-12 107 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he can work from the existing 2 one. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got the basic -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I went by and got this from 5 Voelkel so we would know what was already on there and what 6 needs to be located. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It's just an update of 8 this, and -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, just upstate it. I'll 10 be glad to do that if you want to authorize -- I felt like I 11 needed to come to court to get that authorization. We're not 12 talking about a big expenditure, but I -- you know, at least 13 we'd have a current -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- survey of all the -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It needs to be done. Let me 17 see that. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Both -- that's two copies. 19 If we'd like to have one -- maybe we ought to give one to the 20 clerk to put on file, just so we have it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get an update. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. At some point in this whole 25 process, all that's going to have to be done anyway. 4-9-12 108 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it will be. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Is that a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. I make a motion to 4 authorize the county surveyor to update the -- I guess the 5 site plan at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 9 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 14 Section 4 of the agenda, if we might, payment of the bills. 15 MS. HARGIS: Are you going to forget this one? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Number 14. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. How did I miss that 20 one? Let me back up here. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know; there's always 22 hope. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, get to the end. 24 MS. HARGIS: But you go ahead. You can go ahead 25 with Section 4, and then -- because I -- 4-9-12 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's do 14, 'cause you're on 2 that one too. You're already up. 3 MS. HARGIS: All right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate 5 action to determine the actual amount of certificates of 6 obligation to be sold by Kerr County on April 23rd, 2012. 7 Ms. Hargis would like to pin down a number. I don't know 8 why; we got plenty of time to do that. 9 MS. HARGIS: We have run into a little bit of a 10 change on the way we need to work on our Center Point 11 wastewater treatment project. The Texas Water Development 12 Board would prefer that we borrow those funds from them in 13 order to forgive the remaining part of the loan. It's part 14 of their federal grant process that we would borrow that 15 initial 30 percent of the 1 million, 9 directly from them, 16 versus through this C.O., and that is one of their 17 requirements. And it's not really going to change our 18 situation. It just means we have two loans instead of one. 19 But our financial adviser's going to sync both of them 20 together. We will eliminate the 570,000 right now out of 21 this project -- out of this C.O., and then we will come back 22 with the new Water Development loan project. It's -- there's 23 a lot of paperwork involved in that, and so once they meet on 24 our project on the 19th of May, then we'll come back and 25 start that initial loan process. 4-9-12 110 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And by structuring it that 2 way, we have potentially the opportunity to have that 3 reimbursed potentially back to us; is that correct? Of the 4 570? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes, we do have -- if we don't borrow 6 the money, then we don't get the -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 8 MS. HARGIS: -- the remainder of the million, nine 9 forgiven, so we pretty much have to go this way. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- this came to light from 12 Karen -- and I won't try to pronounce her last name. I had 13 it down at one time. 14 MS. HARGIS: Sirlakowski, or -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water Development Board 16 contacted, I guess -- I thought Jeannie or Keller, and I 17 visited with Dusty Traylor a little bit about it. This is 18 just something we need to do, just move it into this -- move 19 it totally out of this package. It's probably cleaner that 20 way anyway from a tracking standpoint. 21 MS. HARGIS: And we'll probably get the one -- the 22 570 -- even though their rates are very low, we'll probably 23 get this for something like one and a half percent, so it's 24 going to be an even lower amount for the 570. We also won't 25 have to begin paying on it -- perhaps we won't need to 4-9-12 111 1 actually obtain this loan, because we're going to be able to 2 use the Clean Water money that they gave us first, and then 3 we use ours on the end, which is a little different from most 4 grants. So, we can put off borrowing this money for a little 5 while as well. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it sounds like to me -- I 7 mean, it -- I mean -- 8 MS. HARGIS: So, what you have in front of you is 9 really -- 10 (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What does that sound like to you, 12 Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You go right ahead. 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, go on. We'll visit up 16 here while you're doing that. Sounds like to me it's pretty 17 sure that you go to the Water Development Board, and -- I 18 mean, I thought we had difficulties at times getting grants 19 from them. What makes us think we're just going to -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they approve the 21 application, they'll approve the money. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's kind of -- actually, 24 it's a safer way to -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree it's the best way to 4-9-12 112 1 do it. It's a cleaner way to do it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cleaner way to do it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But have they given us their 4 assurance that they're going to give us the money? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if they don't give us the 6 money, they don't give us the application, so we're not going 7 to -- we won't proceed under the Clean Water Act. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that makes sense to you? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they're not going to fund 12 it, we're not going to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 575,000? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. HARGIS: As you'll recall, we originally 18 published 6.5, and the schedule that you have in front of you 19 is removing that amount of money. And we do have the cost of 20 issuance in here, so it's 5,843,500. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5,843,500? 22 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. It's -- if you want to leave 23 a little bit extra, we could go to 5 million, 9, just in case 24 there's a project out there that we have forgotten. Because 25 this is a five-year program, not a one-year program, so it's 4-9-12 113 1 a little harder to tie down what the next five years will -- 2 will do. And it's up to the Court. But these are the 3 numbers you have approved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I sure hope we don't 5 start thinking in terms of, "Gosh, there may be another 6 project out there; let's borrow another $200,000 or 7 $300,000." 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I mean, I think this is 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it right here and 11 stop. I don't think there's that much money in the whole 12 world, anyway. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I mean -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If you take the 6.5 and subtract the 15 570, you get 5,930. 16 MS. HARGIS: We had a little extra in there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But you didn't have the cost 18 of issuance, which you do have -- are you comfortable that 19 that cost of issuance is going to be adequate? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's what the financial advisers 21 gave me. I mean, I have to go by what they gave me. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that on this chart? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it is. It's on the same 25 page with the total. 4-9-12 114 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Turn the page. 2 MS. HARGIS: It's Item Number 13. There's three 3 13's, but it's the first 13. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Right there. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the cost of issuance is 7 $125,000? 8 MS. HARGIS: That's the number I've been provided. 9 That includes the legal fees for -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Bond counsel. 11 MS. HARGIS: As well as the financial adviser, 12 printing of the documents and so forth. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Total. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're asking the Court for 15 today is to commit a number on the C.O.'s that we intend to 16 issue two weeks from today? 17 MS. HARGIS: Right. The financial adviser needs to 18 know that amount because he's going to come with the sale 19 documents, so he has requested that we give him a fairly 20 definitive amount. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: "Fairly" definitive? 22 MS. HARGIS: Well, it needs to be definitive. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Definitive. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is it? Do you want a fairly 25 definitive or a definitive number? 4-9-12 115 1 MS. HARGIS: I wish we could say fairly definitive, 2 but unfortunately, we're going to have to say definitive. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that number? 4 MS. HARGIS: The number that you have approved so 5 far is 5,843,500. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so that's what we need 7 to do today? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We haven't approved that number. 9 MS. HARGIS: No, you approved -- those are the 10 projects totals that you've approved. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: You -- you actually had a larger 13 number, which was 6 million, 5 that -- that we actually 14 published. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Not-to-exceed, right. 16 MS. HARGIS: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to have a 19 bronze statue of our -- of our architect put up somewhere, 20 with a guitar slung over his shoulder and a saddle over the 21 other? That may be a couple hundred thousand right there. 22 MR. LEWIS: Do it out of chocolate. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of chocolate. 24 MR. BOLLIER: That would be a lot cheaper, Buster. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The chocolate would? 4-9-12 116 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get rid of him; it's over. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Hope it gets real hot and 4 it melts. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, does it make sense -- 6 this is just a question. Do we do it at five point -- do we 7 round it to a number, or do we do it the exact amount? Does 8 it make any difference, I mean, from a sale standpoint? 9 MS. HARGIS: I think from a sale standpoint, it's 10 much better if you round it. That's the reason I said 11 5 million, 9. Because if there is any additional cost of 12 issuance or anything else, then you've covered it. 13 Unfortunately, I don't know that number. And neither -- the 14 State of Texas will get a portion of this as well, because of 15 it being a C.O.; they get a percentage at the Attorney 16 General's office. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the options are, depending 18 on how much fudge factor you want for unforseens or something 19 that you forgot, is either 5,9 or 6 even. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 21 authorize the Certificate of Obligation amount of 5.9 22 million. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 25 indicated, that the C.O.'s to be issued on April 23, 2012, be 4-9-12 117 1 $5.9 million. Question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as he said six, I had 3 to go real quick before -- 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So if -- if we made a 6 mistake, it would be the first one this year, so I'll go 7 along with it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you wanted to mention? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Before the Auditor made more 11 comments? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Starts talking again? No, 13 that's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 15 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 16 hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. You got your 21 number. 22 MS. HARGIS: I do. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay. Now let's go to 24 Section 4. Are you with me? Payment of the bills. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 4-9-12 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded we pay the 3 bills. Question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You notice there's not one 5 penny in here from Commissioners Court. Not one penny. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Nor for County Judge. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nor for County Judge. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But I do question the 9 nondepartmental. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What is that all about? I would 12 have thought those would be income if we sold surplus 13 property. The very first one -- two. 14 MS. HARGIS: We have to show the surplus property, 15 the revenue coming in and the surplus property going out. 16 This is still part of a contingency that we didn't know what 17 to do with, because we didn't basically budget that. So, 18 these are both -- because the auditors are, you know, not 19 letting me cross -- you know, take the reimbursement and -- 20 and the expense against it, I have to show them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: This is increasing the flow-through? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the only question I 24 had. Any other questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And on the same group, the 4-9-12 119 1 outside auditor -- or the independent audit, isn't that -- 2 isn't that a little bit less than normal? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. We actually budgeted 35, and -- 4 and it's 30. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So we got a discount this 6 year? 7 MS. HARGIS: We did a good job getting it ready for 8 them. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Seems very high. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And the fact that we had the same 11 bunch here, the continuity helped that too. 12 MS. HARGIS: Most of them are now going for 40 -- 13 between 40,000 and 50,000, so we're still doing pretty good. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Dealing with folks over in 15 Fredericksburg. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 18 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget amendments. 23 I think we've got -- we have three budget amendments. 24 Actually, one's to bring in an income item. The third one -- 25 the other two are budget amendments. Do I hear a motion that 4-9-12 120 1 the budget amendments, as shown by the request 1 and 2 dated 2 9 April 2012, be approved as submitted? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I question the first one. I 4 just don't -- I'm not sure I know. Court-appointed services, 5 which would include some language issues, possibly, but what 6 else? 7 MS. HARGIS: Investigators. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Investigators. 9 MS. HARGIS: Expert witnesses. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Psychologicals. 11 MS. HARGIS: All that kind of stuff. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That kind of thing. So, 13 we're taking from Court-appointed attorneys? 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's something new. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Court-appointed services, if you'll 18 look on Page 3 of the bills, I think you'll get a good clue 19 as to what that's all about. That's in this one recent 20 murder case alone, the attorney's fees and the 21 Court-appointed services, expert testimony and investigation 22 expenses. You total those numbers up on that case, it's 23 $33,000. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: One case. 4-9-12 121 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry I brought it up. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the one -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The one that had a mistrial. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That mistrial? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Sure enough. Okay. 6 Again, I'll ask -- do I hear a motion to approve the -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budget amendments? 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Late bills. Looks 17 like we have one out of Indigent Health. Actually -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Just one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, just one. I was told because 20 of some computer issues, that one was -- came on late. So, 21 normally it wouldn't have been part of the late bills; it 22 would have been in the Indigent Health Care regular listing. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Motion to approve late bills. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4-9-12 122 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 2 raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I've been presented 7 with monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 4 for March 8 2012, Constable, Precinct 1 for March 2012, County Clerk for 9 March 2012, J.P. 3 for March 2012, and Environmental Health 10 for March 2012. Do I hear a motion that the indicated 11 reports be approved as presented? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 15 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Reports from 22 Commissioners in connection with their liaison or committee 23 assignments. Commissioner Baldwin? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't have any. 25 Thank you. 4-9-12 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The fire marshal is silent at this 2 point? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's that fire marshal guy 4 on TV, that comedian? His face was all burned up all the 5 time. 6 MR. GARCIA: Fire Marshal Bill. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fire Marshal Bill. God, 8 that guy was funny. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your report, huh? Fire 10 Marshal Bill? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. That's me. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Overby? 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Not at this time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just for everyone's interest, 16 if they're interested, for a bunch of folks that deal with 17 water, U.G.R.A. G.B.R.A., Kendall County, Kerr County, Cow 18 Creek, we're all meeting this week to talk about some 19 regional water issues. Meeting in Comfort. 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Meeting's where? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Where else? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where would y'all gather? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're meeting at Bank of the 25 Hills. 4-9-12 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The football field? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bank of the Hills, at their 3 conference room. And also this week, the County Attorney and 4 myself and H.R. Director will be meeting with TAC to kind of 5 discuss some of the supplementals and insurance, kind of 6 start our fact-finding that we were directed to do at our 7 last meeting when we were doing that. Meeting with them this 8 week to try to get a little bit of an idea. I think that's 9 it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Continuing on with the 12 process of the Ag Barn. I think Tim got some estimates or 13 costs that we'd asked him to do to get the air conditioning 14 units moved and to reinstall -- or not reinstall, but to 15 bring in the power a different direction and get ready to 16 take down the old building and have the old part that's 17 staying continue to be working, in service. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so that'll be going on 20 shortly, I would imagine. As well as moving -- we're 21 locating some water lines that are in existence underneath 22 that building and rerouting water accordingly to continue 23 service to the indoor arena, and also the exhibit hall. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I mentioned to Tim that he probably 25 should want to have a good knowledge of where those main 4-9-12 125 1 cutoff valves are when they go to working on the demolition, 2 'cause I suspect they're going to find some of them. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're hoping to eliminate 4 those -- that problem by capping them ahead of time. We 5 found -- got word the other day that there is another line in 6 the middle of that building we didn't know was there, and so 7 that has been identified, and I think Tim is going to 8 identify where it is so all that can be capped off as well. 9 So, we still have water everywhere we need water, but we 10 don't want it -- you know, water spouts when we start 11 demolition. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Elected officials' reports? 15 Department heads? Ray? 16 MR. GARCIA: A couple things. I just wanted to 17 inform the Court that we've had a couple more requests from 18 different counties in the state for the Kerr County 19 Environmental Health Department's program. We continue to 20 get other counties that request information from us on the 21 way we have the program set up down there, which speaks 22 volumes for Kerr County. The other thing is, I also just 23 want to update you guys, the Court, that you may be seeing 24 some requests for budget amendments for fuel, as these fuel 25 prices continue to go up, from my department. 4-9-12 126 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sheriff, what's the count? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Count? We're actually still a 3 little bit down, believe it or not. This morning -- or 4 yesterday evening, it was 111, but we're still at the 20 5 females, which is going to still be our issue in the future. 6 Right now, the courts have been moving. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're doing pretty good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Women still causing you problems? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Women are still causing me 11 problems. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: As long as you're alive, I think 13 that's probably going to be the case. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're probably right. But, 15 you know, all in all, it's -- the courts have moved a lot of 16 inmates in the last two months. It's really been -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.D.C. taking them? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: T.D.C. hasn't slowed down any. 19 It's not taking -- you know, I mean, they're getting them 20 within their allotted time frame and all that. We're not 21 having issues there. Some of your rehab centers, we're aware 22 that they're stacking up. But we have to hold them a long 23 time and get them down there, and they reject them because of 24 a certain type of medication or something else, and have to 25 start all over. But all in all, it's doing pretty -- 4-9-12 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: When they're under court order to go 2 to SAFP, for example, they can decline to accept them? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Depending on their medications 4 and all that they're on, yep. So, we just have more and more 5 of those type issues. That's where you're having problems. 6 But all in all, we're doing good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Other elected officials? Department 8 heads? 9 MR. HENNEKE: Briefly, of interest to the Court, I 10 understand that the Water Development Board has a new 11 chairman. And Mr. Vaughan's still on the board, but there's 12 been a new chairman appointed there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's the chairman? Do you 14 know? 15 MR. HENNEKE: I don't know. Someone from -- I 16 don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mr. Vaughan is remaining on 18 the board? 19 MR. HENNEKE: My understanding. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did finally get the new 21 cars in that were ordered last year, and they're on the road 22 now, so we do have four new ones on the road. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Better make do. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trying. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't hit any deer. 4-9-12 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't drown any of them. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else? Anything else to come 4 before the Court at this time? We're adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:06 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 12th day of April, 2012. 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 4-9-12