1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Workshop Session 10 Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11 10:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 17, 2012 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2012-13 employee insurance programs, including: 4 Group employee health benefits and voluntary 5 supplemental insurance programs 3 6 Compensation for Department Heads and employee compensation and other increases which are not 7 mandated by current policy 22 8 --- Adjourned 83 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, July 17, 2012, at 10:00 a.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this workshop of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 9 time, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, at 10 a.m. It's a bit past 10 that time right now. The agenda item before the workshop 11 this morning is to review and discuss Fiscal Year 2012-13 12 employee insurance programs, including group employee health 13 benefits and voluntary supplemental insurance programs, and 14 also compensation for department heads and employee 15 compensation and other increases which are not mandated by 16 current policy. 17 I want to go first to the issue of the employee 18 insurance programs. We've got with us today our consultant 19 for those purposes, Mr. Gary Looney. Let me see if I can set 20 this up, and we'll go from there. We have -- we have a 21 proposal from Texas Association of Counties that he's in the 22 process of reviewing. In the interim, we've had a suggestion 23 to add dental health coverage for employees, and there are 24 three different possibilities on that program if we add it. 25 And that's another thing that's been communicated to 7-17-12 wk 4 1 Mr. Looney, and also he's been working with our H.R. 2 Director, Dawn Lantz, on that. So, Ms. Lantz or Mr. Looney, 3 whoever -- whoever wants to launch this balloon, why, come 4 on. 5 MS. LANTZ: First I'm going to give you the three 6 proposals that TAC has sent to us that Mr. Looney is 7 reviewing. There are three different dental plans that -- 8 within the county pool, like our medical as well, that we 9 would be eligible for, depending on which plan the Court 10 would like to approve. I don't know if Gary has any 11 further -- he's been talking with TAC as well. 12 MR. LOONEY: Judge, Commissioners, as you can see 13 by the -- by the presentation from Texas Association of 14 Counties, it's really just basically a rate structure. It 15 really doesn't discuss any of the underlying benefits and how 16 they are classified within the contract themselves, and we're 17 working on getting clarity for that. We're working with TAC 18 and also Blue Cross to see what elements of care follow under 19 the four categories of treatment that they identify; basic 20 coverage, whether it's preventive care, whether it's major 21 coverage, and what also qualifies and can't qualify if the 22 orthodontic is selected. So, there are network issues which 23 you'd want to verify, which we're looking at the network to 24 see who's in the network as far as dentists in the -- in this 25 area. 7-17-12 wk 5 1 There's some other things that we want to -- we're 2 looking at too, and that is the fact that there has been an 3 offer for a renewal on the medical plan at this point, and 4 they have come up with a -- a number that they're projecting 5 for the premium rate for January of next year. If, in fact, 6 the dental plan and the -- in the process of the County 7 providing that at 100 percent for employees, if we can use 8 that as leverage against the medical plan, and we can find a 9 way to offset expenses in the medical with the inclusion of 10 the dental plan, then that's something that we want to try to 11 negotiate for you. In this process, as you all know, till 12 the end of September, I'm your consultant. So, at this 13 point, we're really -- we're kind of juggling a little bit 14 with TAC in that we really need to make sure in the 15 negotiation process that they understand, and we all 16 understand, how that is to take place. TAC has a form that 17 is part of their application process that identifies 18 consultant/broker which allows them to then communicate -- or 19 allows me to communicate directly with them. They have not 20 withheld any information at this time. They've not been 21 difficult to deal with. But I think from the standpoint of 22 their comfort level in dealing with me in the negotiation 23 process, that we need to go ahead and complete that form, and 24 send -- make sure that TAC understands the relationship. I 25 talked to the County Attorney about it. I've talked to Dawn 7-17-12 wk 6 1 about it. We had a meeting yesterday with Commissioner Letz, 2 and I feel like that -- that would be in the best interests 3 of the county. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you obtain -- regularly obtain a 5 copy of that form? 6 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would you do that? And I 8 assume since Mr. Looney's on the payroll for that purpose, 9 the Court wants me to authorize him -- I assume it's for my 10 signature, isn't it? 11 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If you'll get that to us, 13 we'll -- we'll try and get it and send it over there 14 electronically, and then hard copy also so you can get to 15 moving on talking to those people. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They don't know that he's 17 our consultant? 18 MR. LOONEY: Well, they do. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Need a formal -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've never done a formal -- 21 MR. LOONEY: But this is the renewal process we're 22 talking about. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Renewal, I see. 24 MR. LOONEY: So, past history, you know, we just 25 need to recertify that process for the -- 7-17-12 wk 7 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that begins November 2 1st? 3 MR. LOONEY: Begins immediately. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Begins immediately. For? 5 MR. LOONEY: Till the end of my contract period, 6 which is September. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is when? 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: September 30th. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing that we talked 11 about when we met yesterday was the -- kind of goes into the 12 mix of changing our renewal date, and so that's part of it 13 also. And there's kind of a -- looking at -- a discussion as 14 to how that affects everything. If we can get an offset and 15 add dental and do some of these other -- you know, make a 16 couple of these changes and not be too punitive to us. And 17 then I guess the other thing, the -- we have a -- I guess 18 they all know about the 28,000? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a -- there's a refund 21 that has to be used on our health care that could also go to 22 offset the dental if there is a cost on that partially. 23 Wouldn't pay for it totally, but it would pay for 40 percent 24 of it just off the top. So, between those things, you know, 25 it may be possible to -- it looks like hopefully to add 7-17-12 wk 8 1 dental at no cost to the employees, and have it really cover 2 between making some adjustments in the plan, and using the 3 refund that has to be used for health care anyway. So, 4 that's kind of where we -- the final part we talked about 5 yesterday a little bit. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: From the information that was 7 provided to me, my general understanding is that if we start 8 a new policy year in October, we'll effectively be 9 eliminating three months of our current policy contract, and 10 we will lose some administrative fees that were paid up front 11 for this year. If, on the other hand, we continue our 12 contract through the end of this year and then have another 13 contract for a nine-month coverage beginning in January to 14 get us in line with our -- our fiscal year, we won't -- 15 obviously, we'll get the benefit of those administrative fees 16 that we've prepaid, and won't suffer that penalty. 17 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The only difference would be that 19 any coverage differences would not go into effect until 20 January under the new contract, if there's a difference in 21 coverage. 22 MR. LOONEY: And the other thing, Judge, is that 23 when they project rates, they project a trended expense based 24 on claims projected for a 12-month period. If we can get 25 them to project only for a 9-month period, again, we're 7-17-12 wk 9 1 hoping for an offsetting balance on the premium allocations 2 for reduction in trend. The other thing is that you have a 3 commitment to employees for a contribution for their health 4 care plan for their dependents, and if you were to change the 5 plan in October, you would change it early in that commitment 6 for the one-year program. So -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It would complicate a lot of things 8 if we -- if we messed with our current contract year? 9 MR. LOONEY: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. LOONEY: And we really -- with all of the 12 legislative issues that are going on, the fewer changes that 13 we make between now and the end of the year till -- prior to 14 the year 2014, the better off we are. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of some punitive provisions 16 in the health care law? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That are coming. 18 MR. LOONEY: We're having a presidential visit 19 today in San Antonio, so -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to be there? 21 MR. LOONEY: I'm -- I was not invited. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 23 MR. LOONEY: I've been told that this visit to 24 Texas was similar to a visit to the ATM machine. (Laughter.) 25 So, we'll see how that goes. But the rates that you see that 7-17-12 wk 10 1 have been presented, and also the rates that have been 2 presented on the medical, the medical rates that have been 3 presented are a -- a maximum that they will accept at this 4 time. So, hopefully we'll be able to minimize that back 5 to -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I know -- I know the Court is 7 interested in a time frame that we might finalize these 8 numbers on our health benefits plan. I know you need to have 9 the authorization, and we want to get that to you as soon as 10 possible. Once you have that, have you got any -- got any 11 estimate -- 12 MR. LOONEY: No more than 10 working days. Ten 13 working days. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And you'll be able to thrash out -- 15 that'll be the maximum, your negotiations with them? 16 MR. LOONEY: It won't take long. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we talked yesterday, 19 there's really no plan changes that are really -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Any significance. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We really don't have a lot of 22 options there. And it's not a wise thing to change, based on 23 what Mr. Looney says, with 2014 being kind of an unknown 24 year. It's kind of -- kind of let us skate on through for a 25 while and see what happens, rather than start changing, 7-17-12 wk 11 1 tweaking things, doing a whole lot. Adding dental, I think, 2 is a good idea if we can, but aside from that, I'd leave 3 everything as much as we can as-is. 4 MR. LOONEY: The dental addition is something that, 5 in the last four years, three years, has become more of a -- 6 more of an issue as far as insuring companies are concerned, 7 being able to coordinate a claim payment system between the 8 dental plan and the medical plan, where dental treatments and 9 care can actually be given information into the medical side 10 of the plan where there's indicators of additional medical 11 problems that might exist. And now with Blue Cross and their 12 dental plan, if you were able to combine the two, it would 13 give us some reporting capability in that process. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other thing is that 15 dental would be through Blue Cross/Blue Shield. There's 16 another option, but Mr. Looney recommended not using that 17 other option. Airborne? 18 MS. LANTZ: Yes, Dearborn is the other one. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Does that keep it through 20 Blue Cross? 21 MS. LANTZ: Blue Cross is within the pool. 22 MR. LOONEY: They're in the pool, and the claims 23 systems communicate with each other. And that's really the 24 -- the primary critical element in that process. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 7-17-12 wk 12 1 MS. LANTZ: One other thing that I know Mr. Looney 2 did request from TAC, and I got a response, and I'm not sure 3 if he did, but endodontics and perio, which is basically root 4 canals and a more in-depth type of preventive cleaning for 5 patients, it is covered under the basic under this, which is 6 a good thing. It's covered at 80 percent instead of -- 7 normally, most carriers cover it under 50 percent. So, that 8 was one of his concerns, that that would -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I understand you correctly, 10 Mr. Looney, that these coverage percentages, there may be 11 some adjustments that can be made there? 12 MR. LOONEY: Well, one of the things that we want 13 to make sure is, like, the periodontist and endodontist, we 14 want to make sure what category they fell into as far as 15 reimbursement process. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MR. LOONEY: Because the endodontic and the 18 periodontic services are something that are really needed in 19 that care or treatment to prevent medical plans -- medical 20 problems from occurring. That has to do with treatment of 21 the gums, infections that occur in the mouth, so we want to 22 make sure that those are covered at the highest level, as 23 opposed to the primary care coverage. And that was one of 24 the things we wanted to clear up with them. There are some 25 other items under orthodontics and oral surgery treatments, 7-17-12 wk 13 1 and we want to make sure how those are classified within the 2 plan. So -- and whether or not orthodontics is something 3 that should or should not be included; whether it should be 4 included only for up to age 18. There's a lot of different 5 options that are available for orthodontic usage. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, mainly it's clarification that 7 you're going to be seeking? 8 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And making sure that the 10 categorization is something that is very clear? 11 MR. LOONEY: Well, what you see is a summary of 12 rates. The dental plan document is some 60 pages long, so we 13 need to make sure that what's in those 60 pages is 14 appropriate. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on the employee 16 benefits? Supplementals, I think, are in place, are they 17 not? Anything on that, Ms. Lantz? 18 MS. LANTZ: Well, currently we do have 19 supplementals in place with Alamo, and the suggestion was 20 made to open that up to TAC as well. At our last meeting, 21 you know, I brought up the point that it can affect the rates 22 for what employees are paying right now. So, with our 23 meeting yesterday, one of the recommendations that we felt 24 like is possibly just keeping them where they are right now, 25 intact. And, you know, if not, we'd have to go out for bid, 7-17-12 wk 14 1 and to an outside agent or broker to come in and redo that. 2 But we do have pretty good rates for what we were quoted to 3 renew, so it's basically up to the Court what they would like 4 to do with our ancillary products. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we do -- I don't have any 6 problem with leaving them with Alamo, 'cause I think -- so 7 I'm -- I do believe that changing the plan, overall, that 8 stuff is hard on employees, and not necessarily a -- well, 9 it's not a good thing. But we would have to enter into a -- 10 a brokerage agreement with Alamo, which we currently do not 11 have, because they would not be doing the consulting, it 12 doesn't appear, at this point anyway, after -- for next year. 13 So, you know, if they aren't going to do the consulting, they 14 have to do brokerage agreements, I guess. So -- and then 15 that opened up -- we -- something just has to be done, 'cause 16 we don't have an agreement right now. I don't have -- you 17 know, to me, it's -- I don't have any problem with that. I 18 mean, with -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Employees seem to be satisfied with 20 the coverage and the service that we've had under the 21 supplementals? 22 MS. LANTZ: Like I said in the previous budget 23 meeting, the only complaint we had was with the vision, and 24 we got that restored. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the provider network. 7-17-12 wk 15 1 MS. LANTZ: Yes. And it was nothing to do with, I 2 think, how the benefits were, but it was just people couldn't 3 go to their normal, routine physicians like they wanted to 4 see. Other than that, the other services that are provided 5 are not ones that you use on a continual basis, so, you know, 6 there's really no -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other issue that's 8 always been a -- not always; is a concern of mine was about 9 that I didn't want the County paying any funds towards this. 10 And Mr. Looney said that the -- the County was paying a 11 pass-through administrative through Connect -- 12 MS. LANTZ: BenefitsCONNECT. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: BenefitsCONNECT, and that we 14 can -- we do not need to use that. Therefore, that's a three 15 and a half dollar per-month employee -- that we're paying per 16 employee that we would -- we just wouldn't have that service 17 any more. And -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Eliminate that? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eliminate it. And Mr. Looney 20 didn't think it was necessary with the reporting we're 21 getting with TAC. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if, though -- what if 24 TAC could offer the same service at a lesser price for our 25 employees? 7-17-12 wk 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They -- the only issue there 2 is -- from my understanding, is they don't offer all of the 3 policies that we're currently offering. And I don't know -- 4 you know, I just kind of -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We know that? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. TAC has told us that. 7 So, yeah, it's just -- I'm almost of the feeling, the more I 8 think about it, and talking with Mr. Looney and others, that 9 the -- with the Obama-care thing coming in 2014, I just 10 really don't want to make a whole lot of changes. I think 11 kind of leave it just the way it is. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: See what's going to come down 13 the road. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, long term, if we're 15 going to do supplementals or do something, I think we need to 16 address that in the future as to how we handle that, but 17 right now I just think we kind of leave it. 'Cause, I mean, 18 some of the supplementals may become required. We have no 19 idea what's going to happen, you know, in 2014, and how it 20 all interacts. So, I think, you know, we just need to kind 21 of -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Keep the status quo. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- keep things status quo. You 24 know, I think we're fortunate to have the 1.6 percent 25 increase that we've been quoted so far. You know, that way 7-17-12 wk 17 1 we're able to offer the same plan as we currently have. You 2 know, some counties have been hit with up to 59 percent that 3 use TAC, 'cause it does depend on your history. We've had a 4 relatively good year, so I just think we kind of -- you know, 5 I don't see a whole lot of changes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I heard you. And we're not 7 required to go out for bids because we're not using public 8 money. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's zero public 11 money that changes hands in this deal, administrative money. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: This is merely a convenience and a 13 service to our employees, to -- by providing group rates and 14 eliminating some of the things they would be faced with. If 15 they went out in the private sector to acquire that same 16 coverage individually, the rates would, in all probability, 17 be higher. There would be some -- probably some other 18 exclusions. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The rates would be higher? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If they -- if they went out 21 individually into the public sector. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We know that? 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Oh, yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't suppose we know that, 25 but traditionally and historically, one of the reasons for 7-17-12 wk 18 1 having a group is, number one, to make your rates lower. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, I understand. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And keep these exclusionary things. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make sure 5 that -- that our employees are getting the best deal, the 6 best service for their money, et cetera. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: They're certainly not precluded from 8 individually on their own going out and seeking other 9 coverage, whatever they may desire, or the same type of 10 coverage. Nothing to prevent that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, I would 12 never be one to say something like, "Well, are you sure you 13 don't want to shop locally?" Give the opportunity for local 14 people to put in -- not necessarily -- I don't like the word 15 "bid" here, but to be able to participate in the program. I 16 wouldn't ever say that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause I don't think legally 19 you can say stuff like that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I know you wouldn't want to 21 say it, then, would you? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely not. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if it were legal, I'd 25 say it, I think. 7-17-12 wk 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, moving forward, I 3 mean, the biggest concern I've had, and have had and voiced, 4 is that no public funds are going towards the supplementals. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going forward. In the past 7 there have been some. Not going forward. And, therefore, 8 it's not as much of an issue to me. And, you know, I 9 think -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is included in there? 11 I see dental is sitting over here on the side now, so you're 12 talking about -- are we talking about vision? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Vision. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're talking about 15 cancer? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Major illness. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, major illness. And 18 what else? 19 MS. LANTZ: Accident. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Accidental, long-term disability, 21 short-term disability. 22 MS. LANTZ: The County provides a portion, and then 23 the voluntary, they can purchase additional life. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you put AFLAC and those 25 kinds of things in this? Same -- same deal? 7-17-12 wk 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're like AFLAC type, 2 aren't they? I hear what you're saying, Commissioner, and I 3 think, you know, going forward, we do need to figure out a 4 mechanism for how we're going to choose a broker. But I 5 don't have a problem with staying right now, until we get 6 through this change time, leave it where it is. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's say that this is -- 8 let's say that TAC does have another option, and is there -- 9 I mean, is it law that you're required to have a -- a Looney? 10 (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: An agent? 12 MS. LANTZ: Consultant or a broker? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Consultant. 14 MR. LOONEY: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not a consultant. 16 MR. LOONEY: If it were legal, I'd tell you, 17 Commissioner, but if it were illegal, I wouldn't tell you. 18 (Laughter.) I want to -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks a lot. Go back to 20 sleep. Go back to sleep. 21 MR. LOONEY: No. No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got him awake now. 23 MR. LOONEY: You're talking about me. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so, if TAC had another 25 option, it's not required that we have a Looney-tune on 7-17-12 wk 21 1 staff, but you could ask for the company to provide a -- a 2 consultant to come and consult with us? 3 MR. LOONEY: As to TAC? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: TAC, or the company that TAC 5 has for us. 6 MR. LOONEY: Blue Cross -- 7 MS. LANTZ: Like Dearborn. You're saying Dearborn, 8 an agent with Dearborn. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that'd be fine. 10 Dearborn. 11 MR. LOONEY: There are company reps that are out 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That can fill that position. 14 MR. LOONEY: They would consult with you on their 15 company. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MR. LOONEY: Which means that they would consult 18 only on their company. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hear you. 20 MR. LOONEY: So you might get a one-sided point of 21 view. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- that's never 23 happened in this room before. 24 MR. LOONEY: Never happened, I know. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, thanks for the 7-17-12 wk 22 1 visit. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on the 3 insurance end of it? Okay, let's go to the second portion of 4 our workshop, to compensation for department heads and 5 employee compensation and other increases which are not 6 mandated by current policy. It was not my intention in -- in 7 specifying the agenda item that way that we go into a general 8 compensation area such as COLA's or -- or blanket increases. 9 My intention in making the agenda item the way it was, was to 10 talk about specifically department heads and other individual 11 increases that may have been previously proposed. The other 12 more general ones we'll leave to a later date. I think 13 Ms. Lantz has provided us some information with regard to 14 department heads, if I'm not mistaken. She was requested 15 sometime back to do a survey of various department heads. 16 MS. LANTZ: Does everybody have a copy? 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I do, but it's in the room in 18 there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I got the most recent one. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems like she was asked 21 to do the first three, wasn't she? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and she just included them 23 all. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except for? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge. 7-17-12 wk 23 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 2 MS. LANTZ: Per the Court's request, I was asked to 3 actually do three departments, and then the Judge had 4 requested I go ahead and add two other departments, and those 5 will be at the end. What I did is, I did a survey according 6 to the counties. The top six are within our population, and 7 then the lower four are where we will probably be within the 8 next few years with growth. So, basically, there's a lot of 9 variances that were given to me. Each department head does 10 do things differently. Each county does do things 11 differently as well. Basically, the animal control director 12 for all these counties that I have listed here are under the 13 sheriff's department, so it was hard to get a salary 14 comparison, because those directors are law enforcement 15 officers. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Was it explained to you why all 17 these other counties have their animal control under the 18 sheriff's department? 19 MS. LANTZ: Don't laugh, Rusty. Legal issues, 20 basically. There's an officer there that can take care of 21 all -- if there's anything criminal, anything like that, they 22 do not have to call someone in. It was basically they answer 23 directly -- it's a sergeant or lieutenant that answers 24 directly to the Sheriff, so it was more of a -- to do with 25 laws. That way, there would be no miscommunications on what 7-17-12 wk 24 1 happened. It's just they felt like it's better in their 2 county to operate their facilities that way. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of them are set up that 4 way. One, your estray laws are all under the Sheriff by the 5 way the laws are written and everything. And because of 6 that, because of the -- the legal, issuing citations, 7 everything else. You know, it's done by certified officers. 8 It's just the way a lot of them do. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Backup would also possibly be an 10 issue? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Backup? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Would that be a -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could be, yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a concern? Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Now, we're very 18 fortunate -- and I think Janie's in here somewhere -- in this 19 county, that we all work very -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: She's standing on a chair back 21 there. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We work very well together. 23 You know, and that's -- and that's what makes it work so 24 easily here without it being under the Sheriff's Office, is 25 we all work together. 7-17-12 wk 25 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a quick question. 3 When I first saw this, first thing that popped in my mind, if 4 -- when the Sheriff does have it, does it affect the estray 5 laws at all? Do you just kind of blend them in? Or -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Like, right now we -- we 7 still do it. Janie is kind of -- a sheriff can contract with 8 somebody to go out and pick up the estrays, and then the 9 sheriff is responsible, you know, normally for all the forms, 10 filing with the County Clerk. And the agreement we have with 11 Janie, okay, since she's got the equipment, she picks them 12 up. I sign off on -- on most things. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And she keeps track of the 15 expenses and hauls them to the auction for us, which we don't 16 have the equipment to do, so it's -- it's really worked out 17 real well doing it the way we do it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MS. LANTZ: And the only reason why I brought that 20 up is because there's -- there is no true salary that I could 21 compare to what our Animal Control Director does, because 22 these are licensed peace officers' salaries. And that's why 23 I feel like I needed to bring that up. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't have apples to apples in 25 this case. 7-17-12 wk 26 1 MS. LANTZ: No. And that's with the other three 2 departments that were requested as well, with Maintenance and 3 Environmental Health. Some environmental health departments 4 run theirs under Road and Bridge, so it just depends on the 5 county and what -- 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How they set it up. 7 MS. LANTZ: -- how they set it up for their need. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You want Environmental Health over 9 there with you, Leonard? 10 MR. ODOM: What did you say, sir? (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't think you heard me. Janie, 12 you had some comments you want to make? 13 MS. WHITT: I was just going to say I know it works 14 great the way we have it. We work very closely with the 15 Sheriff's Department and work very well with them, and the 16 police department, D.P.S., all of the law enforcement 17 agencies. But I was going to make a comment. For instance, 18 in Gillespie County -- some counties don't even have animal 19 control in their county, so their deputies will respond to 20 bite cases. However, they're not certified animal control 21 officers, so they don't know how to handle the cases, and 22 they also don't have a local rabies control authority, so 23 they basically refer everyone to the city, which causes a lot 24 of confusion and -- and a lot of problems. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 7-17-12 wk 27 1 MS. LANTZ: On the second request -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. LANTZ: -- for Maintenance, the salaries vary 4 differently as you can see. There again, some maintenance 5 directors have lots of facilities. Some have no facilities; 6 they just manage. So, it was very hard to get a comparable 7 to make it fair there as well. Some -- some directors have 8 two employees, others have 10 employees. So, it just 9 depends, there again, specifically on the county, what duties 10 they have for that particular department head. And then the 11 Environmental Health, they do various different things in 12 different counties as well, from floodplain to the septic end 13 of it. They have -- a lot of counties have R.V. parks that 14 the environmental health director is responsible for, so 15 that's an added duty. They have to be responsible for the 16 sewage and so forth within that county park that's -- if they 17 have any hookups or anything. So, it's very hard to do 18 apples to apples or oranges to oranges to get a good salary 19 comparison for any of these department heads, because each 20 one has a unique position or situation unique to the county. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Each county is different, is 22 what you're basically saying. You got a range of population 23 in other counties, so yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you ever successful in getting 25 a copy of the recommended scheduled for Burnet County? 7-17-12 wk 28 1 MS. LANTZ: No. I did forward that on to the 2 Auditor, 'cause she was going to try to help me get that. 3 They're in the process right now -- they had an audit done -- 4 or a study done within their department. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: By a professional -- 6 MS. LANTZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- organization. 8 MS. LANTZ: By a consultant firm there, and they're 9 trying to see how they can implement it, because they were 10 very far off in the pay scale, but they don't know exactly 11 how they're going to implement that process yet. So, they're 12 not willing to share that data with me, because the Court is 13 trying to come up with a -- a way to make it comparable with 14 what the consultant or firm actually said. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Open Records request. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No success yet, huh? 17 MS. HARGIS: I haven't had an opportunity to call 18 the Auditor. I'm sure she will -- will work with me. I 19 mean, they have in the past, because they're kind of a 20 partner; same software and different things, and I know her 21 really well, but I just have not had an opportunity. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Burnet County's had a -- is 24 about to have a huge amount of growth, from what I hear. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they've already had a fairly 7-17-12 wk 29 1 large amount of growth during this last decade or so. 2 MS. HARGIS: They're still a little less than we 3 are. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe they're getting ready 5 to get some big factories. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big hospital. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I believe -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Scott and White's coming. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Coming to Burnet County? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also something coming to 11 Burnet -- I believe a couple of -- there's, I think, two 12 large tech companies are going to open up big facilities in 13 Burnet. I mean, it will be near Austin, but it's kind in 14 that far eastern part of Burnet County, but still, it goes in 15 their county. So, they're another interesting county to look 16 at. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm sorry, go ahead. 18 MS. LANTZ: Any other questions? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think, to me, this is 20 helpful. Even though they do vary, it kind of shows to me 21 that we're not way out of line. I mean, we're pretty much, 22 you know, where I would think we should be. Based on this 23 comparison, anyway. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is -- you know, doesn't 7-17-12 wk 30 1 mean that we don't need to make adjustments here and there. 2 It just means that we're not way out of the ballpark anyway, 3 from what I see. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's not -- you know, 5 only thing I can say, of course, animal control here is a lot 6 different than it is in other places, and there's a lot more 7 -- I believe ours does a lot more than a lot of the others 8 do. And I think that she's helping do some consulting on 9 counties to set up animal control places that operate within 10 the guidelines the way they're meant to be operated, and 11 there's a lot of them that just kind of have a -- kind of 12 a -- not even a good effort at having an animal control 13 division. Anyway, you know, I find out things all the time 14 that I didn't know that Animal Control does, and some of them 15 are not real pleasant. One of them is when they have an 16 unattended death and there are animals in the house, they 17 call the Animal Control to come take possession of those 18 animals prior to anybody else even going in, 'cause they 19 don't know what kind of animal they're going to find when 20 somebody walks through the door. And that's -- you know, I 21 just found that out not too long ago. I said, "Oh my gosh, I 22 never even thought about that." But it's a pretty -- pretty 23 bad situation for anybody to be put into. But, you know, I 24 would suggest that we at least bring that salary up, at least 25 even with Tim. At least. 7-17-12 wk 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but she's already 2 above medium compared to these other counties. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's also doing above medium 4 work. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But anyway, that's just a 7 suggestion. I throw it out there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me offer some thoughts on 9 maintenance, if I might. As I'm sure all you gentlemen are 10 aware, the number of facilities that maintenance people have 11 become obligated to take care of has increased in just recent 12 years. We're looking at -- with this new show barn, that's 13 going to be a major addition. And, of course, we recently 14 did the S.O. annex, did some upgrades out there to the Ingram 15 annex that were necessary and helped out there. But I think 16 just -- just the number of facilities and the overall 17 responsibility, I noted there was one mention -- maybe that 18 was in a prior worksheet that Ms. Lantz had done, something 19 about special projects? 20 MS. LANTZ: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you recall that? 22 MS. LANTZ: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There was a mention in an earlier 24 worksheet that had been done about special projects. As most 25 of you know, and I suspect most of you had an opportunity to 7-17-12 wk 32 1 have your own special project that you saw fit to twist the 2 Maintenance Department's arm, they're sporadically in the 3 furniture building business or things of that nature. The -- 4 the construction and finishing business, where they use their 5 people to use their construction skills. I know I've got a 6 project going on right now that is going to save quite a bit 7 of money by using those folks. We're going to have to 8 contract some smaller parts of it out. But I think with the 9 additional facilities and those special projects that they've 10 been in the habit of becoming responsible for, may call for 11 some adjustment there. So, I throw that out. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wouldn't be willing to 13 adjust the salary, but I would be willing -- I do believe 14 they're getting behind on their custodial more so than 15 anything else. I think we could justify another custodian 16 because of just the -- more space to clean. As far as the 17 show barn goes, that's -- that can be -- that job, I believe, 18 is going to be made somewhat easier, except for setups for 19 events, because of having a facility that can be cleaned much 20 easier and can be done with a machine. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except that the old facility 22 wasn't ever -- they didn't clean the hog barn. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, but they were always 24 moving stuff around. You know, I don't believe that that's 25 really going to add that much. I spent quite a bit of time 7-17-12 wk 33 1 out there through this process, and I -- I think they can 2 handle it with what they have, with community service and 3 with Bobby Johnson's crew. With Bobby and them out there all 4 the time doing various things with the setup and tear-down 5 and cleaning, and that's a big, big asset for -- you know, 6 that Rusty showed that to us at the last meeting, and things 7 that that group does. So, I'd be willing to go for another 8 custodian, but I don't think we need to adjust that. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Tim, how many buildings do 10 you take care of right now? How many do you have that have 11 been added to your -- or could be added down the road as 12 well? How many do you have right now you're taking care of? 13 MR. BOLLIER: There's a total of 15, maybe 16 14 buildings. I'd have to put it on paper, but there's a total 15 of 21, 22 facilities that I take care of. 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 22? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And I have one person that 18 stays at the Ag Barn all the time, which is a pretty big 19 project for one man out there. The thing with -- with 20 community service is you never know when you're going to have 21 them. Sometimes you don't have any for months, and sometimes 22 you have them for -- you know, it's just sporadic; you don't 23 know. B.J. has a lot of other things to do. There's days 24 that we don't see B.J. because he's picking up in the parks 25 and stuff like that. B.J. has a full plate, just like we do. 7-17-12 wk 34 1 I have three custodians that take care of all these 2 facilities. I have -- there's one, two -- there's six -- six 3 of us maintenance people, six counting myself, which we take 4 care of all the mowing and all that stuff. Now, as long as 5 it stays dry and we don't get any rain, we don't have a lot 6 of mowing to do. But when it does rain like it has been, we 7 have to mow all the time. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 9 MR. BOLLIER: So it takes quite a bit. I mean, it 10 takes all of us, takes every one of us. And then with this 11 stuff -- you know, when we have the big events out there, 12 like we have the rodeo here, and not this Friday, but the 13 next Friday, then two weeks later we have KerrFest, it takes 14 all of us, you know. So, things go -- go without when we 15 have to do things like that. It's basically -- if we can't 16 get B.J. -- you know, without B.J., things don't get done. 17 I'll just tell you that. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's not a guarantee. 19 MR. BOLLIER: That's not a guarantee, because, you 20 know, B.J. doesn't work just for me through our stuff. He 21 works for the Sheriff too; he does things for the Sheriff. 22 So, you know -- and the Sheriff will tell you this. It's 23 getting -- you know, sometimes B.J. has one man. Sometimes 24 B.J. has three, you know. And I don't know how that works; 25 only the Sheriff can answer that. I don't know how they 7-17-12 wk 35 1 determine who goes out with B.J. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, another concern I had, several 3 things that are probably more frequently out at the Ag Barn 4 project -- you say you've got one man out there. When you're 5 dealing with -- with the kind of the chores that you get 6 tasked with out there, I want to make sure that the safety 7 requirements are met so that we don't have one man doing 8 something that two men ought to be doing, because we're 9 compromising the safety of that one man. 10 MR. BOLLIER: Well, there's -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, when it comes to 12 that, you're going to have to pull another man off, at least 13 one, in order to do that. Because I -- I don't -- number 14 one, it's not fair to the man you got out there. Number two, 15 it's a safety concern. Number three, it's going to impact 16 our comp rates. And so -- 17 MR. BOLLIER: You got to realize that everything 18 that we do out there at the Ag Barn -- we could pick a lot of 19 stuff up with the machine, but once you get it to where it's 20 going -- like when you put that up, that indoor arena, you 21 can pick it up with the machine, but once you get it on the 22 machine, you got to put it all together, get it off the 23 machine. One man can't do that. Two men can't do that. It 24 takes at least three people to put that indoor arena 25 together. So, you know, if I don't have community service or 7-17-12 wk 36 1 B.J. around, I have to pull people off to do it, and 2 that's -- like, right now, with the big rodeo going out 3 there, I got everybody out there for a little while because 4 of -- you know, there's just certain things out there that 5 have to be handled. So -- you know, and everything you touch 6 out there, there's nothing light out there that you can grab. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of iron. 8 MR. BOLLIER: A lot of iron. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's similar to Road 10 and Bridge. What you're talking about, Judge, is that 11 Leonard, if at all possible, and probably most of the time, 12 will always send two crew. He's not going to send one person 13 out if possible, because there's -- if something does happen, 14 you've got to have someone that can help. I mean, and, you 15 know, Ag Barn is not out at the end of one of Bruce's roads. 16 Still, if something -- if you slip and fall and something 17 falls on you, you're still alone. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I agree with what you're 20 saying. We need to have -- you know, the biggest -- the 21 hardest thing that we have with our maintenance is having the 22 -- not necessarily the whole total number of employees; it's 23 having the right number all the time, at the right times. 24 Scheduling issue, and it's real hard to -- it's a tough 25 problem. 7-17-12 wk 37 1 MR. BOLLIER: You've got to think about something 2 else, too. 'Cause when these guys are out there mowing those 3 parks, I usually have one person out there, and I do not 4 think that's good at all. But that's all I have to put out 5 there. And, you know, B.J.'s saved us -- I have to use -- 6 I'm using B.J., because I'm telling you, without him, things 7 don't get done. And his guys do all the weedeating for me in 8 those parks. And -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Plus they solve the safety issue, 10 because there's always somebody watching over them. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Well, B.J.'s there. B.J. is usually 12 ahead of me, and B.J. leaves, and so then I have one man down 13 there on the tractor or riding lawnmower or something by 14 hisself. So, if something happens to that person, I don't 15 have anybody down there but that one person. And if -- you 16 know, I don't want to go there, 'cause I just hope nothing 17 like that ever happens. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issues like he's talking 20 about with B.J., one of the issues that all sheriffs are 21 starting to have, you know, more and more -- of course, to be 22 an outside trustee, outside any security perimeter -- not the 23 ones working in the garden, but any of those outside, have to 24 meet certain qualifications as dictated by the state, and 25 every sheriff in the state, we're having a harder and harder 7-17-12 wk 38 1 time finding ones that fit those qualifications any more that 2 you can even use. So that does, and will continually affect, 3 you know, Tim. I mean, we -- you know, we constantly are -- 4 are trying to go through and make sure we've got the right 5 ones out there, and keep them out there all the time. But 6 I'm kind of like you. You know, I'm not going to speak on 7 Tim's salary, but on maintenance -- and this came up while I 8 was gone, and my chief deputy addressed it with y'all. And I 9 don't care whether it's under me or under him, but we have 10 got to start having a full-time maintenance person out at 11 that building. We are -- every single day it's water leaks 12 in that old jail in the pipe chases. It's pre-maintenance. 13 You know, we've got bathroom vents in the new annex, okay, 14 that are already burnt out because pre-maintenance wasn't 15 being done on them. And they burnt out, so now we're waiting 16 on motors to come in for those. You know, when you turn on 17 the light switch and it comes on. We're out of warranty. It 18 made it through that, but, you know, pre-maintenance -- we 19 got water leaks inside the current jail and Sheriff's Office. 20 We've got a floor there that hasn't been waxed in a year, 21 okay. Up front -- I can't pull inmates out up front without 22 a guard on them, and we just don't have it that would qualify 23 to be able to. If you look at the inside of the jail on the 24 floor and that, you know, it will look better than anyplace 25 around, but the -- the administrative office area is -- we 7-17-12 wk 39 1 don't have it. You know, sometimes we go a week without 2 trash cans being emptied, okay? Sometimes we go a week 3 without a floor even being swept. I was in there 7 o'clock 4 Monday morning sweeping floors of the main building. I don't 5 think y'all are -- or the citizens are paying me to sweep 6 floors, but that's what it's coming down to. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get you a robot out there. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one's a little bit 9 bigger. But we do not have adequate maintenance in any way, 10 shape, or form inside the annex or the current Sheriff's 11 Office or jail, and I think that's a disgrace on the county. 12 Because I think -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How many hours does Tim have 14 somebody that's part-time that comes down there that normally 15 helps down there? You got 20 hours a week? Do you have 16 somebody -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Any at all? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I get -- Mando comes out on 20 Tuesdays or Wednesdays and Fridays in the morning, and that's 21 it. And then his regular maintenance to help with water 22 leaks just show up some, but they're not there very long, and 23 we don't get them fixed. I can -- and I fill out maintenance 24 requests every day on anything that's broke, and I can go 25 pull those maintenance requests for this year alone, and it's 7-17-12 wk 40 1 a stack that high, okay, of individual paper. We cannot 2 continue the way we're going. The county's -- 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Your number -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The county's facilities are 5 going downhill because we are not maintaining them or doing 6 any pre-maintenance on them, and that's a shame. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Your number of maintenance 8 requests has gone up significantly? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That building's 20 years old 10 now. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Just the age of the building. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I have got to have 13 somebody full-time. And what I was trying to explain a lot 14 of that with -- with the chief -- and I don't care whether 15 you put it under Tim. I can understand that, okay. But the 16 one thing about it, if they're under the Sheriff's 17 Department, I can train them and certify them as a jailer, 18 and then I can have inmates come out with them that qualify 19 and work with them. I can't do it with somebody that's not a 20 jailer, okay, to be able to get that extra help in. And 21 that's just -- but one way or another, it's got to -- it's 22 got to change. We can't keep going. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, what's involved in getting 24 someone certified in that capacity? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A hundred hours of training, 7-17-12 wk 41 1 minimum, and then -- then constant 40 hours every two years 2 of continuing education to be certified, and then I have to 3 carry their commission as a basic. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like a pretty heavy load to 5 put on a maintenance person. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's as a basic jailer, but 7 that's what it takes. That's what he's got to be to be able 8 to work inmates. That's why I asked for my own to be able to 9 do that, is primarily that reason, so we can have them out 10 there and we can handle all that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We used to have that. Y'all 13 will remember when Charles Janson was with the county. He 14 was -- for a long time, he was a jailer, okay, and -- and 15 assigned to doing maintenance. And then he ended up -- 16 because of a prior sheriff and prior issues with Charles, he 17 really wasn't qualified to be a -- a jailer, and he lost his 18 jailer's license and then went under maintenance, was away 19 from the jail. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, on the -- or Tim and maybe 21 the Sheriff, too. Probably more Tim. If you get a person 22 out there, you almost need someone that can do everything? I 23 mean, some plumbing, some mowing -- I mean, a person -- I 24 think most of your people -- are they proficient enough in 25 all the skills, or do you tend to send -- you have some 7-17-12 wk 42 1 electrical-type people that work on that a little bit, or -- 2 MR. BOLLIER: If I have electrical issues, most of 3 my electrical issues are handled by D.W. Electric. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: D.W., oh. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Because a lot of that stuff out 6 there, my people aren't certified to do. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail locks are a specialty, 8 and they have to be trained on those particular locks. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, most of 10 your people, are they basically proficient in all kinds of 11 maintenance? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or do you have -- do you try to 14 specialize them a little bit? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Shane -- Shane has more -- he's more 16 specialized in everything, but he's worked out at the jail 17 more than anything. Shane knows the locks to where if 18 Sheriff's working out there, or one of the other people are 19 working out there, Shane is usually called, because Shane 20 knows what's going on. And Shane tries to train them as they 21 go along. But -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But out there, you're doing 23 things electrical; you're doing dryers. You know, they're 24 having to replace motors, fix all that, washers/dryers, you 25 know, pipe chases or leaks every single day, okay. Those 7-17-12 wk 43 1 electronic-type valves that are in the showers and that where 2 all they do is push a button; it stays on so long, okay. 3 Sometimes they don't shut off the water mixture, because 4 between the heat and cold, they have to be at certain 5 temperatures, and it's a nightmare, plus 20 air conditioning 6 units up on top. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of that stuff has to be 8 done by licensed people. I mean, you don't -- our 9 maintenance staff doesn't do all of that. 10 MR. BOLLIER: No. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can't, because the City 12 of Kerrville wouldn't allow it. 13 MR. BOLLIER: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think you can change 15 a light bulb without having a license in the city. 16 MR. BOLLIER: We change out -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't change out a hot water 18 heater or anything else without a licensed plumber. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin, you had a comment? 20 MR. STANTON: I was just going to say, all the 21 issues the Sheriffs Department's having, we're having the 22 same issues at our facility, plus we've got -- we've got the 23 other building that's currently being used by Mr. Davis and 24 the Probation Department at the back end of that building. 25 And, you know, I know that the Sheriff is requesting to have 7-17-12 wk 44 1 somebody out at his place 100 percent, but, I mean, if it 2 would help out any, maybe even if he was there 80 percent, 3 and our building 20 percent. We have a lot of -- of stuff 4 that needs to be taken care of out there that Tim just 5 doesn't have the manpower and the people to get out there to 6 do it. And if we had someone that could do a lot of the pre- 7 stuff like the Sheriff's talking about, that would be very 8 helpful out at our place too. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But then on the other hand of 10 that, this is just something -- if you -- if you were to do 11 that, we have to just be cautious, because if they're a 12 certified jailer, I don't believe, under the Juvenile 13 Probation, they're allowed to work around juveniles. 14 MR. STANTON: Well, they just can't be TCLEOSE 15 certified. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. Well, they'd 17 have to be TCLEOSE certified to be a jailer. That's a 18 TCLEOSE certification, so if you're a certified jailer, you 19 cannot work in that juvenile facility. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, I understand what you're 21 saying about the certified jailer, but I just -- I haven't 22 quite got there yet, that we need to have the maintenance 23 person certified as a jailer. I think we need a maintenance 24 person out there. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what I'm talking about 7-17-12 wk 45 1 is kind of like B.J. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can get a lot more work done 4 out there using inmates too, okay? Up front, if they're 5 supervised. They have to be supervised by a certified 6 officer or jailer. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? That's why I'm getting 9 on the -- on the maintenance person, that's a full-time need. 10 If you want to help to be able to get it done and do a lot 11 more, we've got a lot of labor inside there, but you got to 12 have all the ducks in a row to be able to use it. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what's more 14 cost-effective, to hire you another jailer or get a 15 maintenance person under Tim? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be honest, it's probably 17 another jailer that's designated to do maintenance, to work 18 inmates. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you got to have a jailer 20 that is also a maintenance person, which is going to -- going 21 to make it -- 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Pretty tough to find. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a pretty tough thing to 24 find. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 7-17-12 wk 46 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm saying -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, how much of the maintenance 5 function at the jail do you do on average that would be 6 beneficial to have a helper? 7 MR. BOLLIER: To have a helper? Oh, there's a lot. 8 I mean, because you could have one man working -- see, the 9 way it's set up now, you just have a man that goes out there 10 and does what's broken already, okay? That's all we have 11 time for. I don't have time for somebody to go around and 12 check each and every check, because by the time a man goes 13 over there, they may spend all day today over there, today 14 till lunchtime or something like that. But I need 15 somebody -- what would be really efficient over there is 16 somebody that was just doing pre-maintenance and 17 pre-maintenance alone, because that person could do 18 pre-maintenance at the jail. That person could be doing 19 pre-maintenance over at juvenile, both juvenile buildings. 20 And if something is wrong, he can fix it, or he can just -- 21 you know, just pre-maintenance -- pre-maintaining it to where 22 we know what's going on, to where we can fix it before it is 23 broken. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But my question to you is, if you've 25 got the maintenance man fixing it, what good is the helper 7-17-12 wk 47 1 going to be to you? 2 MR. BOLLIER: Be a lot of good. I'm just -- I'm 3 just -- I don't know how to explain it, Judge. I'm trying. 4 I'm trying. It's like -- I don't know how to explain it. 5 Because, like today, you might go over there, and there might 6 be 20 work orders over there, okay? Tomorrow you might go 7 over there and there's three work orders. But there's -- 8 like the Sheriff was talking about, the ceiling fan -- I mean 9 the exhaust fan over in the new annex is out. We went over 10 there; we took that out ourselves. We have to order a new 11 motor. That motor may take two days to come in. It may -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, my issue goes to the helper. 13 The helper. 14 MR. BOLLIER: I don't know how to explain it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If you've got a certified jailer/ 16 maintenance man, how beneficial would it be to you to have an 17 inmate helper, as opposed to your certified jailer/ 18 maintenance man fixing the problem? I mean, how many hands 19 does it take on the average job? Does it take more than two? 20 MR. BOLLIER: No, I wouldn't think. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So your man would be a 22 point-and-shot guy, and hopefully the inmate would have the 23 skills necessary to use the two hands. 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a lot of -- just in 7-17-12 wk 48 1 general maintenance, I think a lot of times two people are 2 more efficient than one. For example, from the standpoint if 3 you're changing out a motor in a vent, well, rather than 4 going up and down the ladder 20 times, if you have someone 5 handing things to you and helping, it makes you, 6 productivity-wise, more efficient. I mean, you can -- you 7 know, almost always on maintenance stuff and working like 8 that, two people can do it quicker than -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, unfortunately, when 10 you're dealing with the water and showers and all that out 11 there, you're normally going to end up with one person inside 12 the cell and one person in the pipe chase behind the cell 13 trying to get everything worked out. 14 MR. BOLLIER: That's true. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two totally opposite walls. 16 It's not an easy fix out there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I'm -- I'm not going to buy 18 into your certified jailer/maintenance man. I want a 19 maintenance man that's capable of going everywhere, fixing 20 everything. To the extent you need to utilize a man, 21 certainly, I think -- I think we need to fix those things. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. It's y'all's 23 call. My purpose of -- of a certified jailer/maintenance man 24 is to be able to tap into the labor I've got sitting out 25 there in jail cells that could do a whole lot of work, kind 7-17-12 wk 49 1 of like what we do on the outside with B.J. and his crew. I 2 think B.J. and his crew has earned -- or saved this county 3 hundreds of thousands of dollars by being able to work those 4 inmates, okay? I think we're doing that, you know, donating 5 back with the garden area, all right. I don't know why we 6 can't do that with maintenance and those facilities out 7 there, except that I don't have a person that can supervise 8 them, and I would have to have somebody that is certified to 9 be able to pull those people out and do that, just like B.J., 10 and should have some maintenance knowledge, but be able to 11 guard inmates. That's what I'm trying to tap into, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't you use jailers you 14 already have? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have enough, all 16 right? I'm mandated by law to have a certain number. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. That doesn't mean 18 missing in action; it's just a different part of the jail. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good try. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, you've indicated that your pool 21 of those people is shrinking? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I've got six openings 23 right now, thanks to the oil fields down south. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- well, I'm talking about the 25 inmates who you can utilize as trustees. So, -- 7-17-12 wk 50 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Outside. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if you got those folks, put them 3 on B.J.'s crew. Let them do the outside stuff under B.J. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What happens -- that's the 5 whole thing I'm getting at. We can also use some inside. 6 You know, I'll be honest; inmates inside that jail strip, 7 wax, do everything to that floor once a month in there. Any 8 one of y'all can walk in and see for yourself. Where you 9 walk into the floor up front, and it's pathetic, all right? 10 Inmates can do that, but I've got to have a guard guarding 11 them, and I think it's better at either a jailer's type 12 salary than paying a $50,000 officer to guard them while 13 they're -- we're doing floors, okay? I just think we can use 14 the program better. Now, if you wanted to give me another 15 officer to where we can try and work two deals like B.J.'s 16 crew, one that can do maintenance and one that can do 17 outside, it's up to y'all. I'm not trying to advocate. I'm 18 saying we've got a problem, and we're just looking at some 19 solutions to it. Whatever y'all -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But the problem is whether 21 you're going to have enough classified to where you can work 22 them. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not -- and I agree, 24 that's a hard problem. But we can -- the thing is, I can 25 tell you what's going to happen. You're going to end up with 7-17-12 wk 51 1 a lot more DWI's and people like that that are sentenced to 2 jail time, is what would happen, okay? Those -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that where you're going? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We got a clogged-up system, 5 guys. There's a lot of different things. We're moving 6 inmates because of the garden, because of good time. We're 7 moving inmates a lot quicker 'cause of B.J., okay? Every bit 8 of that -- you know, let them work. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've heard what I have to 10 say about it. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Tim, on top of all the 13 things that he does, recently has been taking care of the 14 Upper Turtle Creek School that we're basically remodeling and 15 fixing up. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your project. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. A little slow pace, 18 but he's just doing that when he has spare time from all 19 these other things. We're not -- it's not a push and shove 20 type thing on that, but he's -- during his rest period, he 21 runs out there and knocks out a couple of things, and I 22 appreciate that very much. And at some point, there is a new 23 fire station going in in Kerrville South. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I don't know what that's 7-17-12 wk 52 1 going to consist of. So, we've got to factor that in as 2 well, new buildings. But the Turtle Creek School, we're 3 going to get that fixed up and turn it over to somebody that 4 really cares at some point in our lives. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like at this point, you 6 really care about it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And once you get it up and running, 9 you know, get it to where it's usable for those folks out 10 there, which is where you're trying to go -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think for that community, it will 13 be a great asset. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, at one time, Judge, 16 Commissioner 1 had a jailer's certification. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1 what? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A certified -- 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Certified jailer? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Enough about me. Let's talk 21 about Tim. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I agree with you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, there's an idea. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's not an idea. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, here's the deal. You 7-17-12 wk 53 1 know, if I can go out and help tear down the old hog barn, 2 Commissioner Baldwin can spend some time supervising inmates 3 out at the jail. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've been there, done that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that certification has long 6 since lapsed, hasn't it? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but they can 8 recertify him. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About 30 years. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim? 11 MR. BOLLIER: Judge, I would just like to say to 12 the Court, it would be really appreciated if I could get some 13 help. It would really be greatly appreciated. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we figured out that you need 15 that, Tim. 16 MR. BOLLIER: 'Cause -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we got that message. 18 MR. BOLLIER: I just want to say that. I mean, 19 it's gotten to the point to where there's a lot of work to be 20 done; it's just not enough of us to go around. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got this in front of 22 us. Have we got -- have we got -- Janie in the back? 23 MS. WHITT: Can we go back to animal control just a 24 moment, please? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 7-17-12 wk 54 1 MS. WHITT: I said may we go back to animal control 2 just a moment? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure. 4 MS. WHITT: I just want -- I just wanted to add 5 that most animal control facilities that are under the 6 sheriff's department, although they are licensed -- you know, 7 certified peace officers, they don't have to euthanize or 8 anything. They normally contract -- either contract out to a 9 vet, or have a vet on staff, which means that they don't have 10 to worry about carrying a D.E.A. license. The vet takes care 11 of all of that. In our situation, I just wanted y'all to 12 know -- I don't know if y'all are aware of this -- that I 13 have to carry the D.E.A. license. I am certified, so we 14 don't have to contract out with a vet. Those are all things 15 that we do because we are certified. Another reason that a 16 lot of these officers with sheriff's departments don't do it 17 is because of the emotional stress it -- it puts on them. 18 When you euthanize, and you've been euthanizing as long as I 19 have, it wears on you. It really does. You know, and like I 20 said, we -- I have to carry a D.E.A. license, keep very 21 strict records of that, on top of being the local rabies 22 control authority, which most other counties don't -- don't 23 do that either. They contract out with a vet as a local 24 rabies control authority. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the reality, you know, 7-17-12 wk 55 1 in most other counties where they are under sheriff's 2 office -- and a lot of them are, and I've visited with a lot 3 of sheriffs about it. I think when they look at ours and see 4 what our animal control actually does, you really end up with 5 them being more envious, wishing it was like ours and not 6 what they have. 7 MS. WHITT: Yes. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I just -- I don't have any 9 issues with our animal control facility. I think they do a 10 fabulous job. 11 MS. WHITT: Another thing is, most other counties 12 also strictly deal with just domestic animals. They don't 13 deal with wildlife or -- or anything like that. I think 14 we -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Them emus get fun. 16 MS. WHITT: Most other counties, like I said, they 17 don't deal with wildlife. They have pest control or other 18 organizations that deal with that, whereas my department, we 19 deal with any and every kind of animal you can think of. So, 20 there's a lot of things that -- that our animal control does 21 that others don't. I do go to conferences, and other people 22 are just really in awe and wowed by some of the things that 23 our animal control does. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I want to give each of these 7-17-12 wk 56 1 department heads an opportunity to say anything they wish to 2 say with regard to the issue before the Court now. Do you 3 have anything else you wish to say about your position as the 4 department head there at Animal Control, Ms. Whitt? 5 MS. WHITT: Yes. I also do classes at schools for 6 bite prevention, responsible pet ownership. I have -- as a 7 local rabies control authority, I have to talk to physicians 8 pretty much on a daily basis. I also talk to Department of 9 State Health Services. I would also like to remind you that 10 I did win an award from the Department of State Health 11 Services several years ago as the local rabies control 12 authority, and they only give that award out every five 13 years, for bite investigations. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. WHITT: But that's basically it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 17 MS. WHITT: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, anything else you want to say? 19 MR. BOLLIER: I just want to say, you know, with 20 all the facilities that we have, and I think that we do a 21 pretty good job with just the few people that we have doing 22 what we do. And we deal with the public out at the Ag Barn 23 quite a bit, and I have -- I have a good group of people that 24 work for me -- under me, and I'm very proud of each and every 25 one of them, because they work very hard. And most of my 7-17-12 wk 57 1 guys do more -- more than their share, because they have to 2 to keep things going. And, you know, we're on call 24/7, 3 just like Animal Control. You know, my -- you know, I just 4 think that we do a very good job, and I just hope the Court 5 sees where we're at. That's all I have to say. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Garcia, Environmental 7 Health, any comments you'd like to make? 8 MR. GARCIA: I think my record down there stands 9 for itself. Every one of you guys knows on this Court -- Guy 10 has newly come in here, but Precinct 1, Precinct 3, and 11 Precinct 4, and Judge, you know what that department was 12 before I was appointed to take over that department, and you 13 know how far we've come. And each one of you has made 14 specific comments as to that, as to where we have come from. 15 That whole department down there, when I first took over, you 16 guys know how screwed up it was. And, again, to where 17 finally, I mean, we're being asked by other counties 18 throughout the state, you know, to provide our example, give 19 all our software, whatever we can to help other counties out 20 and environmental health departments. Again, you know, all 21 of our audits by the state, they speak for themselves, and 22 then this governor's award, this most recent one for our 23 county. So, not too much to say. I mean, you know, I don't 24 think I have to ring my own bell on this, because you guys 25 see it, hear it most of the time. And, you know, even -- 7-17-12 wk 58 1 Commissioner 1 always asks what's going on down there, 2 because he never hears complaints and gripes like he used to 3 in the past before. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember the day that I 5 really and truly thought septic tanks were going to put me in 6 my grave. 7 MR. GARCIA: I remember when you said that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've never seen anything 9 like that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was wild. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly. 12 MR. GARCIA: So, again, I mean, you know, when you 13 have other counties and other county attorneys and judges, 14 and -- I mean, you guys have seen correspondence I sent you 15 guys. When they want a template of our program here in Kerr 16 County, it says a lot for that department and those staff, 17 those employees you guys got down there. We've come a long 18 way. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's good. Ray -- I'm 20 sorry, Judge. How's your new -- how's your new gal doing 21 down there? 22 MR. GARCIA: Working out great. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Good. 24 MR. GARCIA: Working out great. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Fantastic. Appreciate 7-17-12 wk 59 1 everything you do. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Garcia? Ms. 3 Lantz, H.R., anything you want to lay on us? 4 MS. LANTZ: The only thing I'm going to say is, I'd 5 like to talk about -- not myself, 'cause I'm fairly new in 6 there, so I'm content with my job and what I'm doing, and 7 hopefully we'll have a lot more going on, changes to make the 8 county better. But I do want to talk about Environmental 9 Health, Animal Control, and Tim in Maintenance. When I did 10 this survey, it was very hard because, indeed, we're all 11 different. And each three of these individuals do work very 12 hard. I do have a relationship with each one of them. They 13 do deserve what they're making, plus. I mean, their jobs are 14 hard. They're stressed; they have a lot going on. So, I 15 would -- myself, would like the Court to consider some type 16 of an increase for those three departments. I would like to 17 be left out of the mix, because I feel like those three 18 departments are deserving of it. 19 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, Dawn. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I.T.? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Thanks, Judge Tinley. And I agree, 22 maintenance is understaffed. And if you look at what I've 23 done with I.T., we've stationed someone at the Sheriff's 24 Department. I -- I forced them to give me an office; now he 25 really likes it. But it allows us also to go out to Kevin's 7-17-12 wk 60 1 facility; you know, it's a much shorter distance and it's a 2 lot easier to get out there in, you know, the eastern side of 3 the county. It really works out having someone stationed 4 there, and I can see Maintenance is in need of that. We've 5 set them up an office, but it's empty an awful lot. For 6 I.T., we've had lots and lots of projects, lots of things 7 going on. Currently, we've got an I.T. intern who's 8 finishing up his 150 hours, and I think that's gone really 9 well. He's gone from zero to installing computers at the 10 Sheriff's Office and here at the courthouse with very little 11 assistance. The I.T. specialists I'm especially pleased with 12 this year. We've had an election where we had to do just 13 lots of hours of maintenance on the computers to get those 14 things ready. Basically, Matt Comer took the things apart, 15 replaced some batteries in them so we didn't have to buy all 16 new equipment on part of the election system. Bruce has gone 17 above and beyond, showing up at 2 a.m. at the Sheriff's 18 Office before I noticed a problem, and I think both of our 19 I.T. specialists are deserving of their -- their one-time 20 bump. I'd like to ask for 2.5 percent for each of them this 21 year. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: In addition to anything else they 23 may be entitled to? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. There's one longevity in 25 this, and that's the idea I've got here. The total cost, 7-17-12 wk 61 1 with the I.T. intern program for next year, is about $7,200 2 impact to the I.T. budget. Now, given that, in the line 3 items that we've got, one of them is contractor, and that's 4 about $4,100, which this year we spent 600 and some-odd 5 dollars. Really, we don't use it very often, and it's 6 already been zeroed out, I think, in that Administration 7 Recommended budget. And so the overall impact is about -- 8 I'm estimating FICA and everything -- about $3,200 for the 9 I.T. budget to have the intern program added to continue, and 10 keep our -- our overtime salary budgeted -- our overtime line 11 item budgeted, which also we very rarely use, and to give the 12 one-time step increase. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: John, have -- have you talked with 14 the Auditor about an intern line item? I don't think you 15 have one in your budget now, do you? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, we do. It's -- it was added 17 the last court item -- or court action, to -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. TROLINGER: For I.T. specialist. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So we've got that included? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And the decision was 22 that we'd -- we'd take the overtime hours and put them into 23 the line item for part-time, and that's been done. And, you 24 know, seeing the success of the program, I'm asking if we 25 could fund it $3,600, which is in this Administration 7-17-12 wk 62 1 Recommended now, to continue on with that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So we've got that included now? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. So your main pitch 5 today is on your two I.T. specialists. In addition to 6 anything else they maybe entitled to, you want an additional 7 one step for them? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And I think just about 9 anybody can -- can see, both at the Sheriff's Office and here 10 at the courthouse and other facilities, you see those guys 11 just working every minute of the day with, really, relatively 12 few breaks, and they're -- they're going hard. When they 13 take a day off, they've got to come in and make up for it, 14 because there are lots of things to do. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I'll -- if I can kind of 16 pitch in a little bit on that, out there at our office, you 17 know, a lot of people think I.T. is just doing computers. 18 Okay, you've got all the camera systems; you've -- you know, 19 whether it's inside the jail or the perimeter. We've got our 20 phone system that is humongous. When it goes down, it has to 21 come right back up, okay? We can't be without it. We've got 22 a radio system that -- that John and his crew always help, 23 because if I have to call in on the contract -- the 24 maintenance contract, you're talking coming out of San 25 Antonio or places like that. Every one of our tower sites 7-17-12 wk 63 1 has humongous UPS's at them to keep them from going down. 2 John -- his crew is constantly helping us with that. And, 3 unfortunately, we get a lot of power surges out there for 4 some reason, and every time we do, it knocks something out. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Next door to KPUB. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I kind of believe. 7 And it's normally about 2 o'clock in the morning. And, you 8 know, the last two weeks we've had a number of times where we 9 have lost total radio inside the dispatch. The cars could 10 talk to each other; dispatch couldn't hear them and couldn't 11 talk to them. And John and his people came out immediately 12 to wait on San Antonio. So, they have done a whole lot that 13 I don't think a lot of the county sees on -- on the amount of 14 time that they spend out there. I know -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It ain't just computers. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it ain't just -- and it 17 may start at midnight, and at 10 o'clock in the morning, 18 they're still working it, and then they still come over here 19 and work the rest of the -- of the courthouse. So, you know, 20 I do have to kind of put that in, that it's a whole lot more 21 than just computers. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, Sheriff. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, would you do me a 24 favor, please? Would you back up and go over that part -- 25 that exchange you had with the Judge about part-time line 7-17-12 wk 64 1 items and creating line items and 3,700 dollars, and -- I 2 couldn't stay up with all that. What was all that about? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. This spring we -- we 4 asked for the I.T. intern program, and we moved from the 5 overtime budget $1,800 and created a new line item called 6 Part-Time, and that is the line item that the intern position 7 is being funded from -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 9 MR. TROLINGER: -- this year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what kind of number did 11 you put in there? 12 MR. TROLINGER: This year, $3,600. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That you -- you're asking 14 for in the new budget? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or today? 17 MR. TROLINGER: The new budget. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, it's already in there. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's in there today? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that new money? I mean, 25 that would be a question from a commissioner that votes on 7-17-12 wk 65 1 those kind of things, or tries to. 2 MR. TROLINGER: It is, and I'm giving you the 3 bottom line. The total impact to the I.T. budget with the 4 changes that I've -- I've discussed here, the step increase, 5 the intern, the total impact -- and I added in the FICA -- is 6 about $3,139.96. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll look at it. 8 MR. TROLINGER: And since the Sheriff's given me 9 the opportunity, I want to let you know that -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-oh. 11 MR. TROLINGER: -- that D.P.S. -- Department of 12 Public Safety auditor arrived last week, on two weeks notice, 13 and evaluated our computer network at the Sheriff's office in 14 relation to TLETS, the system that lets them look up the 15 federal, state, and international crime records. And the 16 phrase that was used in the cover letter was "stellar 17 performance." And without the I.T. specialists and the work 18 that they do every day, really hard work keeping up with all 19 that, there was no way, on a two-week notice, that we'd be 20 able to -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I'll be honest; that 22 auditor -- I've seen a few of those audits. They're -- 23 actually, D.P.S. does them for the F.B.I. and all, for the 24 feds, 'cause we're all federally connected. Two of our other 25 local agencies, neither one of them were found in compliance, 7-17-12 wk 66 1 okay? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Has a lot to do with security, does 3 it not? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Has a lot to do with security. 5 It has a lot to do with -- with firewalls and how they're 6 built into your system, and it has a whole lot to do with 7 local policies and procedures. Pam Hicks is the officer I 8 have in charge of our dispatch and how they control it, and 9 what access -- what passwords are on each computer, okay, how 10 long that computer can sit there idle before it has to have a 11 password put on it, what visibility the public may have if 12 they're walking up to the front window to see a computer 13 screen. It's just -- it's unbelievable, the audit that you 14 have to go through to pass. And -- and I'm very proud of the 15 work, you know, John's done to keep all that and, you know, 16 keep it up to date. Because it's also not -- some of the 17 e-mails I saw going back and forth from her before she showed 18 up is, "Oh, you mean you have this type of software? Well, 19 isn't the life of that software over?" You know, aren't they 20 -- are they still supported? 'Cause if they aren't, you 21 know, the company that made the software, you can't have it. 22 You know, it's -- it's a monumental deal. And we 23 passed it without one single bad mark on us, where our agency 24 next door was found in noncompliance, and several other 25 counties surrounding us were all found in noncompliance. And 7-17-12 wk 67 1 the next day, she had another county west of us calling my 2 person in charge to get advice on -- on what to do with 3 certain things, and get copies of our stuff, because there 4 was -- they were so far off, there was no way they were going 5 to be in compliance. So, I'm very proud of what John and our 6 dispatch center does do. And that's -- you know, a lot of 7 these, what you're getting and what I see on a lot of these, 8 whether it's Animal Control, Environmental Health, I.T., is 9 you're going to get what you pay for. And I don't think 10 there's a county around us that can compete with what our 11 people do, and I think this county needs to show that. 12 Something that is coming up, gentlemen -- the Judge 13 and I have talked about it, and what law enforcement agency 14 has ever had this? Our Sheriff's Office was left in a will 15 of trust from a man that died, because of the treatment he 16 got from -- from deputies, okay? And the Sheriff's Office 17 equipment fund is going to be receiving a rather large sum of 18 money. But what other sheriff's office around have you had 19 where public service is to the point that they're left a 20 large sum of money above tax dollars? And that's the type of 21 county you got. And you can either pay for it or not. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, John? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Thanks for the opportunity, Judge. 24 I'm really proud of Matt Comer and Bruce Motheral and the 25 work they do. 7-17-12 wk 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. There was mention 2 made earlier, when we were looking at the survey, that there 3 was one significant department that was omitted, that being 4 Road and Bridge. We redesignated that department as Road, 5 Bridge, Construction and Other Special Projects Department, 6 for obvious reasons. Leonard, I want to give you the 7 opportunity to say whatever you want to say about yourself, 8 your department. It's all yours. We're proud of the work 9 that you do. And I'd like to try and find something to task 10 you with that you can't do an excellent job of, but I haven't 11 gotten it. 12 MR. ODOM: Well, you're only as good as the people 13 that are with you, so -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could you talk about the 15 A & M quarterback issue? (Laughter.) 16 MR. ODOM: Well, that one will take care of itself. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 MR. ODOM: Young men will grow up. That's all. 19 You're in the wrong place at the wrong time, and at north 20 gate, you don't want to -- there's a curfew right there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've never heard of it. 22 MR. ODOM: It's a whole lot better than it was in 23 1966, let me tell you that. Whole lot more civilized. No, 24 I've listened to everybody, and, you know, I'm sure they all 25 do good jobs, and so do our people. And I'm proud of them, 7-17-12 wk 69 1 and I think the Court and taxpayers ought to be proud of our 2 people. They do a good job. I don't have anything there to 3 ask. I'm realistic in where we need to go, and our job is to 4 serve y'all, to serve the citizens, so that's what we're 5 doing. I would like to give another -- when it's all said 6 and done, for Donne and Bonnie, the work that they're doing 7 out there by themselves, and pushing. But as far as -- as 8 far as pay increases and all, we -- I feel like we can live 9 with where were at. And I would like more, but that's not 10 realistic. And personnel, of course, but we'll make do with 11 what y'all have given me this budget year, one position. So, 12 I appreciate it. I thank you for your support, for the 13 equipment. It's going to go a long ways for many years, and 14 that's what I'm trying to do, is to make it where we're not a 15 burden for many years. That'll be somebody else's problem 16 later on. That's all, Judge. Thanks. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Leonard. We appreciate 18 what you do, and all your folks. You've put together over 19 the years some really, really fine crews out there, and they 20 operate like a finely-oiled Swiss watch. And I'd say they -- 21 they do amazing things that they've never done before, 22 because we dream up how you can save the county and its 23 taxpayers a lot of money. And just this year alone, you've 24 saved a whole bunch; last year some more, plus helping out 25 the city. We did the Sheriff's Office annex. You saved a 7-17-12 wk 70 1 trainload there. All the contractors were upset, because 2 that's where all the money was that they were going to make. 3 But we let the bid for that part to our own -- own Road and 4 Bridge and saved all that money. But we really appreciate 5 what you do, and we keep finding things to keep you 6 interested, you see. 7 MR. ODOM: Well, it keeps it interesting. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It sure does. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I've had the very good 10 fortune to work with some of the folks out there, and they've 11 gotten some experience that they never intended to get, but 12 some of it is very beneficial, especially being able to work 13 in an area where you don't have to worry about having cars 14 coming by you every second while you're trying to work and 15 get something accomplished. It's -- I think there was some 16 training that was done with some of the -- his employees in 17 that situation, where, you know, it helped them to get more 18 comfortable with some of the machinery. But I'll tell you, 19 Donne, outstanding job on that site work, and Bonnie -- I 20 just got to know Bonnie, and she is a very fine gal that can 21 do just about anything a man can do, if not as much. And 22 very, very -- you know, Deter and Mike and -- and the whole 23 crew, I mean, they're the ones that did the bulk of it. It's 24 pretty amazing it all got done for such -- such an 25 inexpensive -- not much money. 7-17-12 wk 71 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our tally, 12,000 or 2 something? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was 12,5 last meeting. I 4 think we're probably up to about 20 now. 5 MR. ODOM: About 21. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21, 22 out of pocket for that 7 whole project up to this point. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Demolition and -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Demolition and site work. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The demolition estimates were 11 about 100,000 just by themselves. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We made money. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And on the pad, probably 14 another 100. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway, I have to say those 16 kind of things when I see them. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lantz, we've got an itemization 18 of various out of the ordinary requests for a number of 19 people. We've heard from I.T. Who else do we have that we 20 need to give an opportunity to? 21 MS. LANTZ: I believe the County Attorney had -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. LANTZ: -- some. And the other position with 24 the Tax Office; they're requesting an employee. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the employees, we've -- we 7-17-12 wk 72 1 handled that in our last one. We're just talking about out 2 of the ordinary increases, other than -- which are not 3 mandated by policy and are going to be an across-the-board 4 type situation. You wish to be heard? 5 MR. HENNEKE: Glad to. Briefly, gentlemen, y'all 6 have my April 25th, 2012 letter, which I think speaks for 7 itself. I can certainly redistribute another copy. I won't 8 repeat what's in there, but just to point out that we do have 9 the issue of the step and grade, whether that's going to be 10 extended. And I don't know if that's a global discussion for 11 another point in time, or that -- that's addressed in there. 12 And then also the -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me interrupt you for 14 just a moment. I'm glad you mentioned that. I had asked 15 Ms. Lantz to include that, and while we're visiting, she has 16 included the extension of the step and grade by three 17 additional steps. I had thought that that was done last year 18 in our budget. For some reason, it fell through the cracks 19 in being adopted, apparently. I'm very much in favor that. 20 I think it is unfortunate that we might even think about 21 penalizing people for being experienced employees. 22 MR. HENNEKE: I agree. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It makes absolutely no sense to me 24 why the more experienced that you get, you cut off their 25 right to get mandated increases for longevity that other 7-17-12 wk 73 1 folks are getting. So, I'm -- I'm going to be a strong 2 advocate that it be extended by three steps. I think that's 3 the only right thing to do. So, I'm sorry to interrupt you. 4 MR. HENNEKE: No, thank you, Judge. And that -- of 5 course, that addresses the issue with that employee. And 6 then I believe that the, you know, request in regards to the 7 two attorneys, the two prosecutors that work downstairs is, 8 you know, laid out pretty well in my letter, and I'd stand on 9 that. Of course, I'm always glad to discuss or answer any 10 questions, but I think I put in a considerable amount of time 11 to try to give the Court all of the information that I 12 thought was pertinent, and comparisons and also discussions 13 of the -- the workload that we handle downstairs, and I 14 certainly won't belabor that today. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Ms. Bolin, did you 16 have some comments you wanted to make? I believe you -- 17 you'd requested, I believe, some additional step increases 18 for some of your people? 19 MS. BOLIN: Actually, if we increase the step -- I 20 have two people that are red-lined at the moment. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. BOLIN: If we extend the step and grade by 23 three, that takes care of them. I'm with you, that I think 24 it's unfair that the more experience they have, and they get 25 to that point, they get nothing. And some of them are young 7-17-12 wk 74 1 enough to be here another 10 or 20 years. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 or 20? 3 MS. BOLIN: Well -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Wow. 5 MS. BOLIN: We have one that just turned 50, and 6 she's -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's young. 8 MS. BOLIN: We've got a lot of people that stay a 9 long time. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think that speaks well for 11 the employment with Kerr County. We're not going to name any 12 names here now, are we? 13 MS. BOLIN: No, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. You'll leave me out of it, 15 then. Good, thank you. 16 MS. BOLIN: But we have a lot of dedicated people, 17 which you saw last year when we got the awards for the 18 office. Over half my office got their 5-, 10-, 15-, and 19 20-year awards. When they come, they like it, they stay, and 20 I don't think they should be penalized. We discussed the 21 other employee -- the two employees that I requested, 22 actually, at the last budget hearing. I don't know if you 23 want to do that at this time or not. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we've already covered that 25 ground. Okay. 7-17-12 wk 75 1 MS. BOLIN: So -- but as far as -- if the step and 2 grade goes up to three, then I can leave mine where they are. 3 Otherwise, I'm going to shift them so they can get their 4 longevity. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well -- 6 MS. BOLIN: Which messes up the step and grade. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the reasons we want to 8 extend the steps, because otherwise, what we're doing is 9 we're skewing the classification. 10 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Because you're then forced to put 12 them up to an additional grade, and that throws things out of 13 kilter. 14 MS. BOLIN: Exactly. Exactly. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 MS. BOLIN: That's all I have on it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 18 MS. BOLIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lantz, did you -- 20 MS. LANTZ: Angela, are you -- 21 MS. FIEDLER: Don't I look like Roy today? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're new on the block, and you're 23 going to pitch here for more dough? 24 MS. FIEDLER: Not for me. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-17-12 wk 76 1 MS. FIEDLER: I am happy, and I like where I'm at. 2 Roy and Laurinda and both of our secretaries are great to 3 work with, and they put a lot of time in. And it sounds like 4 everybody is working double time. So, we are looking at our 5 two secretaries, just the step and grade, if -- if that works 6 out. And then I know Lindsey's up for her longevity, so that 7 was all that we were asking for. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the longevities? 9 MS. FIEDLER: Just for Lindsey right now. I think 10 she was up. That's what Roy had instructed me, so -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the step and grade -- the 12 longevity is a matter of policy. 13 MS. FIEDLER: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That happens automatically. 15 MS. FIEDLER: Okay. Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reason the agenda item 17 was styled "not mandated by existing policy." 18 MS. FIEDLER: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause existing policy says that's 20 automatic. 21 MS. FIEDLER: That's going to be automatic. And 22 maybe he wasn't aware of that at the time, so -- but that was 23 all that we were -- and I was going to say, we've gotten to 24 experience some of the -- a little bit of everything. 25 Maintenance -- and I'm not complaining. We had a water leak 7-17-12 wk 77 1 from the rain, and I was just glad that we had the rain. 2 So -- but that has been taken care of, so I appreciate that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll take the rain over a minor 4 water leak? 5 MS. FIEDLER: Hey, we'll never know if we have 6 problems unless it rains. I'm not going to complain about 7 it. So -- but it's been great, so I've enjoyed it, and all 8 the activity going on at the fairgrounds, and -- so, anyway, 9 they're breaking me in. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Were there any others, Ms. Lantz, 11 that were on the -- on the list? 12 MS. LANTZ: The only other one -- and I'm going 13 to -- Tim had come to me about the Maintenance Department, 14 about requesting a two and a half percent for his employees 15 because of all the extra work and what they're doing on a 16 short staff. So, that was basically what I had submitted to 17 the Court, to consider his employees for a two and a half 18 percent increase for all the extra projects, duties, and 19 things that they've been doing. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's all you have? 21 MS. LANTZ: That's all I have on what was 22 requested. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I miss anybody? 24 MS. PIEPER: Judge, last court, when I wasn't here, 25 I had sent a letter for justification for another employee. 7-17-12 wk 78 1 Can I explain that a little bit more? It seems like there 2 was maybe some confusion. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 4 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Only because you weren't here, but 6 I -- 7 MS. PIEPER: In trying to help y'all understand why 8 I need another person and why I'm calling this person a 9 rover, it's because the person will be trained -- actually, 10 what I'll do is I want to bring in a new person, and then use 11 one of my seasoned clerks to be able to fill in wherever, 12 whenever. And so what I have done -- if you will take one of 13 these and pass them around, this first page shows my calendar 14 to where we have some type of court just about every day, so 15 that pulls some of my deputies out of the office into court. 16 And, like -- of course, if it's criminal court, then that's a 17 lot of times most of the day. The calendar behind it is our 18 general calendar that is kept when somebody's out sick, on 19 vacation, has an emergency and has to leave. And I ran this 20 for a couple of months just to show you our juggling 21 schedules on a daily basis. So, when I have, like, criminal 22 court and we have two or three deputies running criminal 23 court, then if somebody just comes in to pay a fine or 24 something, we have to utilize a different deputy. My probate 25 deputy and my mental health deputy, you know, in addition, 7-17-12 wk 79 1 they do -- they get pulled to do vital statistics and 2 recordings and stuff like that. But I need somebody to where 3 I can just pull them and put them into whatever department I 4 need them when people are out sick, on vacation, and just 5 general stuff like that. I sent -- what was it? Last month, 6 I sent a couple of my girls to the A.L.P. certification in 7 San Antonio, and Cheryl and I ended up working the front 8 counter all day. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: A.L.P.? What's that? 10 MS. PIEPER: Acknowledgment of paternity. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. PIEPER: It's a law that, in order to work with 13 unwed mothers on birth certificates and stuff, we have to be 14 certified in it. So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't realize it took 16 certification for that. 17 MS. PIEPER: It does, it takes certification. 18 So -- and it's a yearly certification. Luckily, if I send 19 them to San Antonio, it's free. It's just that they're out 20 for the day. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay, thank you. Appreciate 22 it. Okay, is that it for today? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, that's it for today, 24 'cause this isn't on the agenda, but if I could ask 25 whoever's doing -- let's put the calendar on a future agenda. 7-17-12 wk 80 1 I mean -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah I've got -- I've got Ms. Lantz 3 circulating that. Actually, there are two different ones, 4 and she's circulating it among the departments to kind of see 5 what the druthers are. And once she gets that done, then 6 we'll -- we'll bring it up here, and she'll be able to report 7 to us about how it gets weighted. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might note, I don't see 11 Texas Independence Day on the draft calendar. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw it. I've already 13 looked at it. Just a bunch of heathens we work with here. 14 MS. LANTZ: It's a Saturday. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's even a better reason 16 to take off. We need to close the doors. (Laughter.) We 17 should take off that Friday or Monday. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you're going to find 19 any complaining. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our next scheduled 21 meeting? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it's August the 6th, isn't 23 it? Let me look right here. I can tell you -- 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Monday, the 6th. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If I can get the right deal here. 7-17-12 wk 81 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By that time we should have all 2 of our health insurance information, sounds like. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I would think so, yeah. Yeah, 4 absolutely. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we should also have the tax 6 roll information by the 6th. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We've been promised the tax roll. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's been promised -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- every year by the 25th of 11 this month, right? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're actually going to get 13 it this year. They had promised it to us by about the middle 14 of the month. 15 MS. BOLIN: They started on the 10th. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I knew that was too optimistic, but 17 we might have it by the end of this month, might we? 18 MS. BOLIN: I'm hoping. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, 'cause those are both 21 obviously key components at the next meeting. We can kind of 22 look where we are. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's important. The 24 rest of this is all -- all good. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you -- 7-17-12 wk 82 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If we don't have it on the income 2 side, it doesn't work, does it? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just doesn't work very well. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you talking about the 5 numbers from the Appraisal District? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Revenue. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was their request as 10 far as salary increases? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They've got -- 12 MS. BOLIN: Three percent across the board. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I sure hope we get those 14 numbers this week. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got their request, and 16 I've already scheduled it on the agenda for next meeting, I 17 believe -- yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are so good. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, we stay on top of all 20 this stuff. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about Jody? Jody 22 doesn't get paid enough. 23 MS. GRINSTEAD: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody that gets paid 25 enough, raise your hand. 7-17-12 wk 83 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. (Laughter.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? We'll be 3 adjourned. Thank you. 4 (Commissioners Court workshop adjourned at 11:47 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of July, 2012. 14 15 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 16 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 17 Certified Shorthand Reporter 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-17-12 wk