1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Thursday, August 23, 2012 11 3:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 GUY R. OVERBY, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 23, 2012 2 PAGE 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding the FY 2012-13 Budget 3 4 --- Adjourned 77 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Thursday, August 23, 2012, at 3:00 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, good afternoon, ladies and 8 gentlemen. Let me call to order this special Commissioners 9 Court meeting of Kerr County Commissioners Court posted for 10 this date and time, Thursday, August 23rd, 2012, at 3 p.m. 11 It's that time now. The item on the agenda to consider, 12 discuss, take appropriate action regarding fiscal year 13 2012-13 budget was placed on the agenda today by Commissioner 14 Baldwin and Commissioner Letz. Which of you gentlemen 15 desires to go first? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll go first. And 17 maybe second as well, but we'll just see how that plays out. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That leaves you out. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, there's a third. Or two 21 and a half, something like that. I just wanted to say that 22 this is nothing new. We do this every year, and have for 23 centuries, commissioners taking the proposed budget and 24 taking another look at it to see if there's areas that we can 25 work with or work at, and -- and so this is not anything 8-23-12 4 1 magical. It's just another day in paradise. I have asked 2 Jody to -- you know, in case we come across something that -- 3 that we do choose to -- that we want to change in this 4 budget, I've asked her to make -- make that list so we can 5 bring it back Monday and -- and vote on it then, or we can -- 6 I don't know if we can vote on it today or not. I have no 7 idea. I didn't see the agenda item. But -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You can. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Action agenda. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you know, it might 12 happen, and whatever y'all desire is fine. But she's ready 13 to take notes if you so desire. So, I'm just going to dive 14 into it. You have some opening comments? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a -- just a general 16 comment, and pretty much the same as Commissioner Baldwin 17 said, is that the -- you know, I don't like, and haven't in 18 the past -- we may have had to do it at one point just 19 because of the time issue of having to vote, make changes 20 here and then vote on something, hoping it gets put in right. 21 So, my idea was -- I think I told the Judge this. I said you 22 might -- I think it's a two -- at a minimum, a two-step 23 process from -- you know, to get the budget approved. One is 24 making the changes, hopefully vote on them today, which would 25 be my desire, and then have a clean copy, or pretty clean 8-23-12 5 1 copy. I understand there might be a few adjustments, but 2 know exactly what we're voting on on Monday, and then be done 3 with it on Monday. You know, that's my -- you know, kind of 4 my hope for today, and the reason that I thought we needed a 5 meeting. The other option was to have a meeting Monday and 6 then have another meeting next Thursday, and I'd rather -- 7 that just pushes it off another week. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have one in Del Rio 9 Thursday. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nice and cool down there this 11 time of year. The -- I guess before I turn it back to 12 Commissioner Baldwin, you know, I guess I would like to hear 13 from somebody as to what -- the Judge gave us a sheet that 14 kind of was a summary sheet of his proposed budget. I found 15 some of the, I guess, bigger points on this sheet. It may 16 not be the right sheet, but anyway -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the positions that were in, 19 you know, a summary. And I -- I presume that that is what 20 we're looking at as the budget right now. And the reason I 21 bring that up is I -- I want to make sure that we're all 22 looking at the same budget. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, was that a question to 24 me? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 8-23-12 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. Positions. We have 2 added one position in the Tax Office, shown on the position 3 schedule as a bookkeeper. We have added a position of 4 Maintenance. I'm not sure -- general maintenance, I guess, 5 probably, whatever the opening there is. We have reworked 6 the County Clerk's position schedule and budget, and what 7 we've done is there's been some restructuring down there, and 8 one of the previous unfilled positions is to be filled. One 9 of the unfilled positions is to be eliminated. Net budget 10 effect as a result of that, according to Ms. Lantz, is that 11 office's personnel budget decreases by 38,000 and change. Is 12 that correct, Ms. Lantz? 13 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: On the current budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry, can you repeat 16 yourself on that one? We deleted one and added one? Or we 17 added one, deleted one, and changed one? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No -- well, no. We filled one 19 unfilled position. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This was where? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: County Clerk's. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And by restructuring, we reassigned 24 another employee, an existing longer-term employee, and we've 25 eliminated another position off of the position schedule. 8-23-12 7 1 The net effect of all of this is a reduction of that 2 department's budget of a little over $38,000. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: On the sheet that I previously gave 5 you, there was an administrative lieutenant that was 6 requested by the Sheriff. That was subsequently not included 7 in the budget that I filed. I believe that's all of the 8 additional positions, is it not, Ms. Lantz? 9 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Those are the position 11 differences, okay? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a net two increase? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A net two increase. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: From the current year budget, yeah, 17 it would be. Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we talk about -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking across all 20 departments? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Maintenance Department, 24 did we bring up the Maintenance Department? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we added one there. 8-23-12 8 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Added one? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's -- that's not 5 additional increases. That's just bodies, people. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. How many -- I don't 7 know -- you may know the answer to this, or H.R. or someone. 8 How many unfilled positions do we have under -- you know, 9 under the current position schedule, how many unfilled slots 10 are there? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to defer to her on that. 12 MS. LANTZ: I believe the Sheriff's Office has some 13 unfilled. I don't know exactly what he has. Currently, I 14 have -- I think there's one in Road and Bridge that has not 15 been filled yet. Have y'all filled your position over -- 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't hear. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: You are filling it? 19 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 20 MS. LANTZ: For next budget, October 1st, she said. 21 MS. HOFFER: Can't do it this year. 22 MS. LANTZ: And -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yours are just normal, Rusty? 24 Yours are just normal? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mine, we agreed last year, I 8-23-12 9 1 ended up cutting -- I think it was a total of four unfilled 2 positions, and this administrative lieutenant would take at 3 least one of those -- you know, would give it to me back. 4 And I would like to address that before you -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. But -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I should still have, 7 technically -- I think it's about three that we just never 8 refilled. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, Rusty, you don't get to save 10 these up. They're not like attaboys in your pocket. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't say we saved them up, 12 but if you'll remember, they weren't ever taken off the 13 position schedule; they just were not funded. So, they are 14 on the position schedule, but were not -- I think -- well, I 15 think actually they ended up getting taken off the position 16 schedule at some point, but they weren't funded, is the way 17 it was. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They were not funded. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. I had one that was on 20 the position schedule and funded, okay, that I just kept open 21 all year until recently, and I filled that one. But there's 22 about three that are totally going away. It would be four -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So all the jailer positions, 24 all those are filled? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Currently? No, I have three 8-23-12 10 1 openings that we're in the process of filling, but none of 2 those were -- all my positions that I've been allowed to fill 3 have -- you know, I use those, okay? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And your jailer positions are 5 the ones that you have to have to meet jail standards? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a mandate on the 7 ratio, depending on population, as you well know, Bruce. 8 Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So the lieutenant position is 10 removed, correct? From what we're looking at, when we talk 11 about a plus gain out of the departments of two employees, 12 this -- this is not in this budget? That was not -- that was 13 not added, correct? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The budget that I filed did not 15 include -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that administrative lieutenant 18 position. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But your summary sheet that 21 you each got last time did include it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The summary sheet did, in fact, yes. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That got cut after that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Back to him? 8-23-12 11 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what about it? I mean, 2 do we need to talk about that? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to talk about it at 4 some point. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, get up and talk about 6 it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right, you're going to let 8 me talk about it. The way that department's set up, in 9 actually going through some of the cuts last year and 10 everything else, I have a crime prevention officer that 11 oversees dispatch. I have a criminal investigation captain 12 that oversees dispatch, civil, warrants, and criminal 13 investigations. And I have a patrol captain that oversees 14 all my training in the Sheriff's Office side, but not the 15 jail side, plus vehicle maintenance, gas, oil, and all those 16 kind of things, Open Records requests. And it's gotten to 17 where I have way -- a lot of my employees have more duties 18 than they can even do to keep up with efficiently. What I 19 was trying to do with the administrative lieutenant position 20 is bring in all those under one, such as my jail training and 21 Sheriff's Office training issues, my Open Records, my 22 dispatch supervision, my warrants, civil, which is also 23 courthouse employees, courthouse security. Put that all 24 under one administrative lieutenant to free up my criminal 25 investigations so that they can do criminal investigations, 8-23-12 12 1 and my, you know, crime prevention will be able to do crime 2 prevention, and my patrol captain will be able to do patrol 3 and not worry about all these other issues. And that's what 4 we try to do. 5 Now, one thing that -- and, Judge, I'm trying to be 6 diplomatically polite with this, is that position, as you 7 know, was in your summary, and has been approved up till this 8 point. Okay? Or no commissioner has griped. I originally 9 asked for three in this new budget, and the two were cut 10 right away, which I understood. Y'all remember why. You 11 know, one was a courthouse security because of the request 12 made by a District Judge, and the other one was the 13 maintenance position for the Sheriff's Office, and y'all are 14 working that out with the -- with the maintenance person. 15 And the third one was this. Until Animal Control came up, 16 this one was done, and then in my -- in my denying to take on 17 Animal Control, then this one all of a sudden got cut. I 18 didn't appreciate that. This is a needed position. It's a 19 justified position. I'm still down from what I've been, you 20 know, at, but I'm trying to get things a little bit better 21 organized where we can take care of things, and get the -- 22 the people back on the duties that they're supposed to be 23 doing. A lot of that got absorbed and changed when we cut a 24 lot of different positions out in the last several years, but 25 this is a position that's needed, and I feel it's very 8-23-12 13 1 justified, and it will organize my department a lot better. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Now you've talked about it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have. I'm tired of 5 talking. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Listening. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got -- I've got a couple 8 questions in regards to the insurance consultants and Alamo 9 software. Is it in or is it out? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be out. 11 MS. HARGIS: It's out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should? It's out? 13 MS. HARGIS: It's out. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we don't -- do we even have an 15 insurance consultant line item? Even though it may show 16 zero? 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes, we have a line item; it shows 18 zero. Because it's still active for this year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Software also is zero. 20 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's all I want. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I got a Tax Assessor -- I 24 have a question, Diane. 25 MS. BOLIN: Yes? 8-23-12 14 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I know that the -- first of 2 all, I was going to say I'm transitioning, as everybody 3 knows, so I'm going to be asking some questions here as far 4 as that with the position. You do a wonderful job down 5 there. I've enjoyed the last two years working with you. 6 I've seen all the work that you've done down there. Question 7 goes with the position that's here, and instead of looking at 8 hiring a full-time position, is there a possibility that 9 money, instead of using it for a full employee, could be set 10 aside for training? Is there anybody in your department that 11 you feel that has, you know, some desire, or you see that 12 would be good to train in that type of area for bookkeeping 13 in your department that could -- could learn that? Or do you 14 feel like a full-time person down there is really what you 15 really need to help deal with this bookkeeping/accounting 16 duty? 17 MS. BOLIN: Well, the full-time bookkeeper would 18 start out by learning all the departments so that they would 19 know what it entailed, because we do deal with all the 20 entities and state. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 22 MS. BOLIN: So I do need another body. I 23 absolutely have got to have another person. Whether they're 24 the full-time bookkeeper or I put them in training to be a 25 bookkeeper is the call of the Court. As far as someone being 8-23-12 15 1 there that could do it with the workload, just because the 2 economy's down, motor vehicles are selling like crazy. That 3 has not stopped, and I need another body. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, thank you for your 5 comments on that. I had some other things just here to talk 6 about. Again, we'll just jump into it and throw it out 7 there. What we're doing here today is salaries and -- and 8 wages coming up for the new year. Again, coming from a 9 commissioner, again, that will be going out, I'm kind of 10 wearing two hats right now; commissioner and, of course, as 11 far as also as a taxpayer here in our community. I -- I 12 would like to -- as we talk about incomes and wages, I -- one 13 thing I would like to see as a county commissioner here and a 14 taxpayer in this county is I would like to see our wages for 15 our county commissioners be reinstated that you guys did, I 16 think, in 2008. You took a 2 and a half percent cut on this 17 Court, and I think your intentions were admirable as far as 18 what you were trying to do. The budget was tough, very much 19 so. Any budget's tough any year that it comes out. But I 20 think your leadership in taking that cut four years ago needs 21 to be reinstated, and I think that needs to be for all of the 22 elected officials who took that 2 and a half percent 23 reduction. I think that it needs to -- as I've seen here, it 24 needs to be reinstated back in for the 2012 budget. Is 25 that -- 8-23-12 16 1 MS. HARGIS: The only elected official right now 2 currently that hasn't taken it back is Rob. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. So, the Commissioners 4 and County Attorney are in that situation. Looking at 5 the other wages in here as we look at the budget for this 6 year, I note that in the budget it calls for a 3 percent 7 COLA increase, cost-of-living. I know we don't say what it 8 is, what -- you know, what we have. I would like to see the 9 3 percent cost-of-living increasing across the board for 10 everyone. I would like to see it go through for also the 11 elected officials as well. I know that last year they did 12 not receive anything as far as an increase for their cost of 13 living, but the reality of it is, it's -- we need to keep up 14 those opportunities for people who will be willing and 15 wanting to serve in positions of leadership in our community. 16 It's critical that we just don't keep on saying we're going 17 to cut, cut, cut; we're not going to do anything to take care 18 of these people. We need to do something. It's been four 19 years. Not only have the elected officials not had an 20 increase in wages and their cost of living; their milk costs 21 the same as yours and mine, and we need to do something for 22 the elected officials as well. So, I would support a -- 23 definitely a 3 percent across the board for the cost of 24 living for everybody here with the elected officials and 25 employees. 8-23-12 17 1 Another thing that I -- I'd like to also put out 2 there is a line item for vehicle expense. I know we've had 3 some conversations with the J.P.'s, and we've had vehicles 4 and conversations about how a -- a line item might be 5 supplemented for positions of responsibilities that cover in 6 their jobs with J.P.'s and Commissioners. I think a lot of 7 times people don't realize that -- I know this Commissioner 8 here, we have zero as far as our auto and vehicle expenses 9 that we had to -- to cover our expenses here locally. Yes, 10 we are compensated for mileage when we go -- like, for my 11 example, I go to AACOG two to three times a month. I am -- I 12 am reimbursed back for mileage. But we have zero in our line 13 item in our budget for auto expense and vehicle. We don't 14 have a vehicle to drive in. We don't have those vehicles. I 15 know Commissioner 4 out there, you've got the biggest 16 territory to cover. But the realization is, we've got gas at 17 3.65, 3.50 a gallon, and there's expense, and we need to have 18 a line item in here -- this Commissioner sees that there 19 needs to be a line item in here that gives some type of 20 vehicle allowance to these elected officials. 21 This Commissioner here sees other counties that are 22 around our area have as much as -- some counties have as high 23 as $6,300 in a vehicle allowance, and we have zero. And we 24 have -- we have oil changes to do. We have tires to replace. 25 We have a lot of expense, and I know the miles I put on my 8-23-12 18 1 vehicle in the last two years are quite significant. But 2 with that, this Commissioner would like to move for 3 discussion -- I would like to see an allowance for vehicle 4 and transportation costs of the County Commissioners at 5 $2,400. And I would like to consider at the same time for 6 our Justices of the Peace, who have responsibilities one week 7 out of the month -- they are constantly on the road for one 8 week. They are constantly busy in what they're doing. They 9 don't have a vehicle as well, but I would like to see $1,200 10 be in a line item for them as far as some type of vehicle 11 compensation for the use of their car, oil, all those things 12 that they do. 13 You know, we've had discussions about a car. Where 14 are we going to get a car, or how are you going to find a 15 car? I -- that may be a discussion you have down the line, 16 or what you want to talk about, but for right now, I think we 17 need to look at something right now to have something in the 18 budget that we could do something for them, our J.P.'s. And 19 I don't know if we have any -- anything in here right now or 20 not. I just would say that I really appreciate all their 21 service and what they do. They do a fantastic job, but I 22 think we need to put something in there for them for some -- 23 for some items on that. That's all I have right now. I'm 24 sure some others will come to my mind. I just throw that out 25 for discussion right now. 8-23-12 19 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we get back on the 2 Commissioners' travel allowance -- 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- thing? Seems like to me 5 that we had a separate line item at one time. 6 MS. UECKER: We did. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the Court decided that 8 it was really and truly salary, and rolled it into the 9 salary. And I can't -- anybody remember how much that was? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,200, I believe. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1,200 bucks. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1,200? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it was all -- or most 14 elected officials had it. 15 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not all. Most of them. 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah, it was for all of us. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it may be -- to satisfy 19 Number 2 here, it may be that we need to break that out again 20 and create a line item, and just see where that -- how much 21 did you say? 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 2,400. But my question is, 23 what year was that that you had that? It was not -- it's not 24 been in my time that I've been here. 25 MS. UECKER: No. No, it's been -- 8-23-12 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: '98, I think. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Twenty years ago? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no, no. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten -- probably 10 or 15. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Ten or 15 years. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Not that many. Because of the 7 revenue rulings and the code, it was -- it became of no 8 advantage to have a separately classified travel allowance, 9 because it was taxed. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And if you otherwise had deductions 12 for tax purposes, your mileage, if you wanted to take it that 13 way, or depreciation on your vehicle and fuel and oil and 14 that sort of thing, you took that anyway. And you had to -- 15 if it was shown as a travel allowance, you had to -- had to 16 mark that up, in essence, against that, and it really became 17 a nightmare, and for I.R.S. purposes, didn't make any 18 difference anyway. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Classified as ordinary income, just 21 like you got as part of your salary. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's 1,200 already 23 there, regardless of where it sits. From 1990 -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it was rolled in way back 25 yonder. 8-23-12 21 1 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah, 10 or 15, you know, 2 whatever it is. But I just think it needs to be separate. I 3 think a lot of times, people -- people don't -- people need 4 to know, I mean, you don't have any allowance. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They really don't care, if 6 you want to know. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Well, I understand. I 8 understand that. But the reality -- that's the reality. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is reality. Believe me, I 10 know the reality. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And you're -- you have no -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why I keep all my 13 mileage and take it off on my taxes every year. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the only way I get 16 anything for it. 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's why I threw it out 18 there. I think it should be a separate line item where we 19 have something in there for our Commissioners. It's just -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this something y'all want 21 to bring back on Monday, and -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- tinker with? Or you want 24 to say no to it now? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I mean, I look at it -- I 8-23-12 22 1 don't disagree. I agree with what you're saying. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think we're -- you know, 4 let me back up just a hair first. I think the -- the county 5 as a whole, the county family has done a phenomenal job in 6 the last three years on budgets. 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our budget is probably one of 9 the -- you know, very few governmental entities anywhere have 10 gone down over the last three years, last four years. I know 11 the last four years, probably even more than that. So, I 12 mean, we have -- we have tightened the belt, and I'm proud of 13 everyone, you know, in the county for doing that. 14 Unfortunately, we're still not out of the woods. We -- our 15 goal as a Court was to -- as stewards of the taxpayers' money 16 is to build up our reserves, and -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We're doing that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're there, just about. We're 19 real close. We're going to end up somewhere around 20 20 percent. Well, if someone would have told us two years ago 21 that we could get up to 20 percent in two years, we would 22 have just thought that person was nuts. But by a lot of hard 23 work by virtually every employee in the county, we've done 24 that, by controlling the expenses. All that being said, we 25 have one more year to get there, in my mind, and I think that 8-23-12 23 1 a travel allowance type thing is -- you know, there's a lot 2 of justification to put it in a separate line item, but I 3 think we still need to work on reserves. We still need to 4 look at the bottom line, and that's why I'm against doing it 5 right -- this year. I think next year, it's something that 6 -- you know, even if -- you know, I'd probably look at it 7 then. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Commissioner, I totally 9 understand. And on the reserves, I think it's wonderful, and 10 I think our department heads and our employees here at the 11 county have done an outstanding job. You guys have stepped 12 up, and the reason why we're in the predicament that we're in 13 is because of the departments and the employees working as 14 hard as they have, not -- not from here. But I -- the reason 15 why I threw that out there about the transportation, I guess 16 I got to live and live it the last two years, as a lot of 17 folks don't see. And I still will say I'd like to see it 18 happen, and if you don't do it this year, I hope you consider 19 it in future. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You remember him, don't you? That's 21 not Wrong-Way Corrigan; that's Next-Year Letz. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Remember that guy? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of folks in here remember 8-23-12 24 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 MS. UECKER: I think -- Judge, I think, you know, 4 working with all these people throughout the state, from what 5 -- and you've probably heard it too. The reason the travel 6 is separate is 'cause it makes the salary look lower. That's 7 basically the only reason. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've never -- I've 9 never thought of it like that, but -- 10 MS. UECKER: Well -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Political sleight of hand is what 12 she's suggesting. 13 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's those other counties 15 she's talking about. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That all have vehicles. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we go to conventions 18 and we see the vehicles. 19 MS. UECKER: And they're nice. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They are nice. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: What's your take as far as 22 the J.P.'s, as far as that situation? I mean, are you seeing 23 a car being a solution? What are you -- what do you envision 24 there? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I like the car idea, but 8-23-12 25 1 everyone I've talked to doesn't like the car idea. 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I don't like it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They say it's probably not 4 going to work. So, you know, I think the J.P.'s -- the 5 J.P.'s and the Commissioners are the two that use the 6 vehicles the most. I know other elected officials use them, 7 but a lot of us -- well, the Judge. I consider you -- you're 8 a commissioner, and -- when I say those words. But I think, 9 you know, we're the ones that drive around the most in the 10 precinct. The elected -- you know, Linda, you certainly 11 drive around some, but you don't -- 12 MS. UECKER: Every day. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But you don't drive -- 14 you know, I drive a lot; that's all I can say. He drives a 15 lot. I mean -- 16 MS. UECKER: Well, stop it. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you know, I had -- this 18 morning I've been back and forth -- I've been to Kerrville 19 once and back towards Comfort, then back to Kerrville again 20 for meetings. They're all county business, so, I mean, you 21 drive a lot. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to drive for the 24 meeting. So -- you know, and from the J.P.'s standpoint, you 25 know, I would -- I still think a pool vehicle would work, 8-23-12 26 1 even though -- 'cause we can get a -- but -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could have a vehicle 3 available to them, but they choose not to use it, I guess. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. The problem, from what I 5 understand, is we don't have a vehicle that they can -- we 6 can assign to them, so we'd have to go buy a vehicle. By the 7 time we buy a vehicle, we got to figure in all the insurance. 8 It's cheaper giving them an allowance. 9 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- you know, I don't 11 like either option on that one. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's just not -- it's 13 hard to do, because then you got to prove up every mile you 14 drive. You got to keep a log. You got to turn it in to the 15 -- I mean, you got to justify that stuff; you can't just have 16 it, I don't think. I have to justify mine. I have to keep 17 records of every mile I drive if I want to take it, you know, 18 off for business. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For county business, I keep 21 it on my calendar. I've got it laying on my desk at home, 22 and I do it every day so that I don't miss anything, 'cause I 23 can't remember what I did, you know, four or five days ago. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yesterday. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Four or five days ago? 8-23-12 27 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just being nice. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: By the time you get home. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, you know, I can tell you 6 that -- I mean, I totally understand, and I agree to a point. 7 It just comes with the job, and I took on the job. And, I 8 mean, I spend -- this month and the last several months, with 9 this show barn project, I think I've -- I haven't totaled it 10 up, but I guarantee you, I've driven 2,000 miles just on this 11 one project, not counting all my other stuff I do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We all drive. We all 13 drive -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I drive a lot. I just -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I remember not too 16 long ago, there was a guy out there whining that 17 Commissioners need to drive their roads. Every day. Every 18 day. It rolls around seven days a week; we're out on those 19 county roads. But I'm not real clear what the issue is with 20 the J.P. thing. What is that? I'm not sure what that's 21 about. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: J.P.'s are on a weekly rotation, and 24 every fifth week, a J.P. has to, quote, take calls. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 8-23-12 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're on call for mental 2 health issues, for unattended deaths, call-outs in terms of 3 other types of deaths. Primarily, they do their 4 magistrations and so forth. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are they still doing their 6 turn at the State Hospital? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They don't do a turn as such out 9 there. They -- you know, what you're talking about, the turn 10 at the State Hospital -- let me get to that in a minute, but 11 these are when they're called out at night because there's 12 someone down at the E.R. that -- they really need mental 13 health services and so forth. The turn at the State Hospital 14 that you may be referring to was, as Buster would say in the 15 olden days, when they would go out there and hold probable 16 cause hearings. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probable cause. They don't 18 do that any more? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: They still do that. 20 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But they are compensated, and 22 compensated, frankly, quite well for holding those hearings. 23 But instead of Kerr County paying the whole cost for their 24 turn at the State Hospital -- originally, that's the way it 25 was set up, that Kerr County was -- they were paid a flat 8-23-12 29 1 amount each year to do that. I asked you to change that, 2 because we were paying for 100 percent of the cases, only 3 75 -- 75 to 80 percent of them were out-of-county cases. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So we went to this other system. 6 It's now charged as court costs. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So they get reimbursed, or 8 they get paid -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for holding those 11 hearings. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They get paid for holding those 13 hearings, and quite well, I might add. But we don't pay the 14 whole cost of it, because it's charged as court costs, and 15 the vast majority is paid by other counties. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So we pay our pro rata share. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The rest of them are billed 19 out of county. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they get a supplement. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically. It's not really a 23 supplement. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, they get paid on a 25 per-case basis. 8-23-12 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but it's a supplement to 2 their salary. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Each -- each of them has three 6 months of the year, each trimester, and -- or tri -- I don't 7 know what they call that. It's not a quarter. 8 MS. HARGIS: It's a quarter. One per quarter. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right, we got all four 10 participating. Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All four are participating 12 now? We used to only have three. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. You still only have three 14 rotations a year, but whatever that is. But it depends upon 15 a per-case basis. And the -- in fact, I can probably tell 16 you how they have run up so far this year. Mental health, 17 J.P.'s, year-to-date actual, 20,550. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good gosh. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That pays for their vehicle, 21 doesn't it, to go over there. Pretty fair. 22 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That would cover it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: They're not asking -- they're not 24 asking for mileage to go to the State Hospital to conduct 25 these hearings. 8-23-12 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, let's get back 2 to that other -- the other side of it, though, where they do 3 go to the unattended deaths and -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- emergency room and those 6 kinds of things. I'm like -- I agree with Commissioner Letz 7 about the vehicle thing. I -- I'd heard through the 8 grapevine that there was one or two J.P.'s that said that 9 that just flat wouldn't work, and I don't understand that. 10 The -- I can see how a person would take one week and use the 11 county vehicle in that one week, and then turn it over to the 12 next guy. And we offer that, and if a J.P. chooses not to 13 participate in that, he chooses not to participate. It's as 14 simple as that. And I think that's better than the 15 compensation issue, 'cause you really -- unless you start 16 paying by the mile and keeping up with all that silliness. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't need to create an 18 accounting nightmare. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the -- you know, we're 20 either going to help them in that arena or we're not. I'd 21 like to see if we could help them. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So you're saying if we -- 23 that 20,000, that should come out to an additional 5,000 a 24 year, theoretically, for each one, right? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 8-23-12 32 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just depends on how many 2 cases. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. It's not evenly 4 split, obviously. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Some get more than others. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I sign an order appointing the J.P. 8 as a master in a particular case, and agree to pay them a 9 specific fee, which is allowed under the Mental Health Code. 10 Actually, it's a -- it's not a specific benefit, but I've 11 tried to set that in what I think is a generous manner so 12 that they keep a good attitude, most of those folks who are 13 doing that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That question had really 15 never been answered that well before. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That question had never been 18 asked or answered that well before. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Have you ever tried a vehicle 20 with them before? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not to my knowledge. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: So you don't have any 25 pre-history about how that will work. Take a shot at it. I 8-23-12 33 1 think you just got to make sure we do -- it'd be nice to do 2 something for them where they could have that access to have 3 it here. I think their week on, to have the wear and tear 4 going on a county vehicle and not their own, if they're 5 putting on as much as they say they are. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's, you know, 8 good to help, but at the same time, I'm -- I'm not sure how 9 much they actually put on. I mean, a couple hundred miles? 10 You know, depends a lot -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's another part of 12 that, too. You know, my first thought -- when I heard about 13 this a couple weeks ago, my first thought was, well, we got 14 these white jeeps that we got from U.G.R.A. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Years ago. And somebody 17 said, "Well, they're trashy and they don't run real good." 18 If it's that bad, we need to get the damn things off the 19 courthouse square, I can tell you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or cut the top out of them 22 and plant flowers in them or something. They don't look bad. 23 And, seriously, if they're -- if they're that bad, let's get 24 rid of them. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You know these unattended deaths 8-23-12 34 1 that always happen way out in the boondocks that you got to 2 have four-wheel drive to get access? They got that 3 four-wheel drive, don't they? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Get them out there. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I guess we 7 could ask the Road and Bridge mechanic to look it over or 8 something. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think we should 11 probably get rid of those and get something -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we'd better plant 13 flowers in them. Cut the top out of them and just make a big 14 old flower bed. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I don't know how 16 many other vehicles we have, but those two don't seem to -- 17 is anybody using those two? 18 MS. HARGIS: She's using -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tracy does? The Treasurer 20 does? How do they run? 21 MS. SOLDAN: Not very well. (Laughter.) The gas 22 gauge doesn't work, so I don't know whether there's gas or 23 not. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: How old are they? 25 MS. SOLDAN: They're pretty old. I'm not sure. 8-23-12 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Been to a lot of septic 2 tanks. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as old as Buster, but 4 they're pretty old. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: May be able to use them as 6 consideration for a new vehicle or something. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think used. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Used. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe a used vehicle. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Find a used one. Anyway -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than the gas gauge not 12 working, Tracy, what's the problem? 13 MS. SOLDAN: It's -- it's fine to do my bank runs 14 in. I don't know that I would take it to the ends of the 15 county. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Take what? 17 MS. SOLDAN: I don't know that I would take it all 18 over the county. 19 MR. GARCIA: Those jeeps used to belong to my 20 department, and they're -- they're better off being scrapped. 21 Because I put a lot of money into it, and I did get with 22 Jeannie early on, and we spent a lot of money upkeeping these 23 things, and they're -- we have way too much maintenance in 24 those things. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I detect a little anger 8-23-12 36 1 here. (Laughter.) 2 MR. GARCIA: Well, you got to remember, we were 3 putting things that were contaminated with, you know, 4 everything else inside of those jeeps, so I wouldn't use 5 those jeeps at all. (Laughter.) 6 MS. SOLDAN: Good to know. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, does the Sheriff's 8 Department have any Tahoes that they're rolling out? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're not rolling any out this 10 year at all. In fact, I still got a couple LTD's with 11 150,000, 200,000 miles that we're still having to hang 12 onto -- or Crown Vics. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Got no brown Chevy out there or 14 something? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No seized vehicles? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not at this point, no, I 18 don't. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you like to ponder it 20 over the weekend and bring it back on Monday and try to make 21 another run at it? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably try to -- I mean, I 23 think we'll just -- it's kicking the can down the road. I 24 don't think it helps that much. 25 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just want to throw it out 8-23-12 37 1 there. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, it's probably less 3 costly, if you're going to do anything, to give them a small 4 allowance. You know, but to me, I'm -- you know, $600. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like it's either that or -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The highway. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Next-Year Letz, right? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, or look at it again next 9 year. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, it's always -- it is 12 frustrating that we -- you know, we always look at the other 13 offices, but we never worry too much about us. Anyway, I 14 don't need to say -- you know, I wasn't aware they were 15 getting almost 5,000 a year on another supplement. They 16 don't -- they fail to mention that frequently when they are 17 asking about how -- mileage. So, that conversation kind of 18 really -- I'm probably more inclined to put it off till next 19 year. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask the dumb 21 question. What did they request? Did they have an actual 22 specific request? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe there was a specific 24 dollar request. My recollection is $3,600. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly what I 8-23-12 38 1 remember. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 36 or 35. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 35? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was 36. I 5 thought it was going to be 300 a month. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Transportation? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It was 3,500 a year, or 36, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was their request early 9 on. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That ain't going to happen. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: No. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm kind of leaning 14 with Letz here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Old Next-Year Letz here. 16 (Laughter.) You don't want to Google "We'll look at this 17 again next year," and see how many times -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's paint the jeeps. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to get rid 20 of the jeeps either way. That seems like a liability more 21 than an asset. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think we have that 23 one that Gene turned down in Precinct 4 when he got his new 24 pickup. 25 MS. HARGIS: No, he traded it in. 8-23-12 39 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm? 2 MS. HARGIS: He traded it in. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that went in? Okay. So 4 we only have the two -- two clunkers down there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll bet you henceforth, Tracy's 6 probably not going to be driving that jeep, are you, Tracy? 7 MS. SOLDAN: No. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Put them on Gov.deal; 9 somebody will buy them. It's amazing what stuff runs on 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, maybe we should put it -- 12 let's surplus those at our next meeting. 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I had a question for Jannett 14 on the County Clerk positions. On that position that we're 15 looking at adding, what is the responsibilities and duties of 16 that person being added? What would they be doing? 17 MS. PIEPER: I'm going to have -- I'm going to 18 have -- use a rover, administrator for training, working when 19 people are out sick or on vacation. There's always multiple 20 spots in the office that need help. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Any particular area that's 22 getting larger than any others that needs help? 23 MS. PIEPER: All of it's increasing a little bit. 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It's increasing more -- in the Land 8-23-12 40 1 Records, not so much. Litigation, criminal, not so much. 2 MS. PIEPER: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's -- 4 MS. PIEPER: Probate, mental health. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- everything out of probate. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Probate's increasing? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, you bet. Guardianships are up 8 about 80 percent, and then all the other administrative 9 stuff. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the actual position that will 12 be -- new position being filled will be an entry-level clerk. 13 MS. PIEPER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So there's a net positive on 16 the side of revenue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Savings. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all have any other issues? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have something to 22 talk about? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm kind of -- I'm with Letz 24 about it. You know, I'm also known as "next-year" over here. 25 I don't think there's any doubt about that. 8-23-12 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- are you done? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm just waiting till 3 y'all get through. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, go ahead. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Go to the next one. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of 7 questions with the Auditor -- Auditor's budget. And I think 8 -- I'm not sure which budget I'm reading all the time. 9 There's several out there, so correct me if I'm wrong, and 10 I'll certainly admit that I've been wrong. But, like, the 11 line item for the employee training. You've used $586, but 12 you're budgeting 6,000 this next time. 13 MS. HARGIS: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't -- doesn't 15 compute to me. Can you explain why that is? 16 MS. HARGIS: It's both of my girls running for 17 Treasurer, so I could not justify sending either one of them 18 to school. But I have -- I will be sending them this year. 19 Because I didn't want to spend the money on either one until 20 I knew who won. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did one of them win? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. And then 24 conferences. You budgeted 5,500, and you spent 6,900. How 25 does that work? 8-23-12 42 1 MS. HARGIS: I went to a lot of conferences last 2 year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you come through here 4 and get -- get permission to do that? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I did. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To spend money? Good. Now, 7 the -- your new hire -- you have a new hire, -- 8 MS. HARGIS: I do. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I understand. I haven't 10 met this person, but I understand you do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There he is right here. 12 MS. HARGIS: This is James Robles. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, James, nice to meet 14 you. 15 MR. ROBLES: Pleasure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm little Buster, Fannie 17 Mae and Cecil's favorite baby. (Laughter.) We can talk 18 about that later. I have no intention to embarrass you, but 19 I've got some questions up here. Is this -- did this young 20 man replace Tracy, or what? 21 MS. HARGIS: The young man is replacing -- is 22 filling a position that I needed in my office, which needed 23 to be equivalent to a second auditor, not a clerk. I need 24 two auditors to have enough staff to have two people that can 25 audit and do other things. Tracy was -- did not do any 8-23-12 43 1 auditing. She did some of the other work in the office. But 2 between Tess and I, it's gotten a little laborious. We can 3 only get -- some of the offices we weren't even able get to 4 this year, because we just don't have enough time. We try. 5 And some of them are mandated to get to four times a year, 6 and we make sure that we do all of that. But the auditing 7 and the budgeting and the financials are getting more 8 complex, and I can't be the only one in the office that's 9 familiar with GASB and all of the different auditing 10 requirements that we have to have. And I have to make sure 11 that all of the departments are in compliance so that we're 12 in compliance when I do our annual external audit, because it 13 affects our bond rating; it affects our grants and everything 14 else. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, did -- you were in here 16 on June the 11th talking about replacing Tracy, I think is 17 what -- 18 MS. HARGIS: I was. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that was about. And we 20 got into this. On your -- your agenda item, you had an 18.4 21 listing there, and it's really a 17.3. And you remember, we 22 had that little discussion back and forth, and you decided 23 that it was a 17.3, and we actually -- we actually did a 24 court order. 25 MS. HARGIS: We did, authorizing me to publish. 8-23-12 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. And tell me 2 -- tell me the status of that. 3 MS. HARGIS: When you asked me to put a 17.3 in 4 there, I stated in the court, and it did not get in the 5 order, that that would be the minimum salary that I could 6 offer. And I have waited and put that out for bid for almost 7 two and a half months. I have not gotten any resumes, until 8 I got James', that was even qualified to do the position, not 9 even with the same qualifications that Tracy had. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what -- what is his pay 11 scale? 12 MS. HARGIS: He's a 22, the same as -- as Tess. 13 They're the same. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you got a court order to 15 do that from the District Judge? 16 MS. HARGIS: I did. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. And I notice 18 today -- what really brought this up, today I see on the 19 agenda for Monday that you're coming in here for approval. 20 MS. HARGIS: I am. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why are you doing that? 22 MS. HARGIS: I don't have to, but I'm doing it out 23 of courtesy. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I appreciate that. 25 But I don't appreciate you going -- when we -- when the 8-23-12 45 1 Commissioners Court authorizes a 17 or so, and going to the 2 22 without any kind of discussion. I see that as just 3 disrespect for all of us and all the taxpayers. And -- and 4 Judge Williams signing the thing, that's very disrespectful 5 to us, in my opinion. And I had a visit with the other 6 District Judge yesterday, and it was a little bit unpleasant. 7 But I just don't think that's the right way to do business 8 here with -- in our community, with our family, our county. 9 You have -- you have employees out here that would love to 10 have a salary increase; maybe not the 22, but they're not 11 professional like he is, but some. And it's just not -- it's 12 not fair to them. And we deal with this kind of stuff every 13 year, like with the Appraisal District. You know, they -- 14 they've kind of come down the last few years, but used to 15 they would put those fairly large raises in there, and we 16 would say no to them, because it's -- it wasn't fair to our 17 employees and just wasn't -- wasn't right and wasn't fair. 18 And I'm just expressing Precinct 1 Commissioner's feelings 19 about this, and I wanted to let you know about it. And if I 20 get the opportunity to vote on it Monday, I'm going to vote 21 no. But it doesn't matter; you've already got your court 22 order. I'm not sure what you're doing with that, but anyway, 23 I want to let you know that. That's all. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That wasn't really a 25 mandamus, was it? 8-23-12 46 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That wasn't a mandamus 3 letter, was it? Order from the Judge? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It could be considered that, 6 to where we have to do it whether we want to or not. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's exactly what it 8 was. And I love the -- the closing line on it. I can't 9 remember exactly the verbiage, but it says something like, 10 "If you have any questions, don't bother me. Go talk to the 11 County Auditor about it." 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And I think the 14 Auditor actually wrote the -- wrote the order, just got his 15 signature. But, anyway, that's all I have right now, Judge. 16 Thank you for your time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we come back to you shortly? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely can. If you don't 19 mind calling me Shirley. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we -- should we just kind of 21 permanently classify you along with Next-Year Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't want to go that 23 far. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to see -- I want to 8-23-12 47 1 see if Jody has something for to us come back on Monday to 2 deal with. Otherwise, it's a total stamp of approval, in my 3 opinion, if we don't -- if we don't have something to change 4 or anything, it sounds like to me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that would just run totally 6 against your grain, because it would be putting a stamp of 7 approval upon a budget that I filed, as if I'd done a perfect 8 job, and you ain't about to admit that, are you? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did you have to go 10 negative like that? (Laughter.) I wasn't saying a damn 11 thing like that. I'm just cleanly saying that if there's not 12 a -- if there's not an uproar here today, it looks like that 13 we'll -- we'll adopt your budget Monday. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think so. 15 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I have -- I have a question 16 for the Auditor. Again, we are -- the budget that is 17 proposed to us, that we've been hashing about and talking 18 about, the budget proposed is on the effective rate that 19 we're talking about? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And my question is regarding 22 the items that we talked about for increase and those things 23 that we're looking at. One thing that Commissioner Letz said 24 earlier, and I think that we come back to again, and we've -- 25 we stated about the reserves that have increased 8-23-12 48 1 significantly, and due to a lot of sacrifice and a lot of 2 hard work from our employees and our departments. The 3 question to the Auditor is, I would like to know, 4 reserve-wise, if -- I know it's a hard thing to try to come 5 up with, but I would like to know, based on the effective tax 6 rate within this budget, what reserves that we can look at, 7 that we could build that 20 percent that Commissioner Letz 8 talked about, or if it remains at the current tax rate and we 9 still do the same type of catch-up that we're talking about 10 here that we've put aside for many years, what would that 11 reserve be as well? Is there information that I could obtain 12 on that that would help me with my vote for Monday? 13 MS. HARGIS: I ran some of those numbers, and 14 again, I don't have a crystal ball, but if we were to stay 15 with the current rate, with everything that's in the budget 16 as we're talking about -- you haven't really removed anything 17 that I've heard of yet -- I think we'd probably stay constant 18 at the 20 percent. We might go up 20 -- from 20.47 percent 19 to 20.67. The additional revenue from the effective rate 20 would give us more revenue based on our expenses, so it would 21 automatically give us more -- more revenue, which, if we 22 decreased our expenses, the net would increase the reserve. 23 So, there's a possibility of getting to 23 -- 24 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: -- with that additional money. If we 8-23-12 49 1 stay constant, I don't see that it's going to move that much, 2 because, again, if our revenue -- our revenues are not going 3 to increase that much. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And, again, our target goal 5 is 20 -- our target goal is 25 percent of our fund, correct? 6 MS. HARGIS: That's what the Controller's office 7 says is a good rule of thumb. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Okay, thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I have something. I was 11 going to see if Commissioner Oehler has anything, 'cause he 12 hasn't said anything. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you got anything to throw out 14 on the table, Mr. Oehler? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, there's just 16 very little we're really talking about, when you really get 17 down to it. It's what the percent of increase is going to be 18 approved for the employees and elected officials and 19 department heads that factors into whether you need to stay 20 with the effective rate, or whether you can stay with the -- 21 or go to the effective rate, or stay with the present rate. 22 That's the money you're talking about. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, it depends 24 on the -- you can do both, or you could do either. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8-23-12 50 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It depends on if we want to try 2 to get to a close -- pretty close to 25 percent reserve next 3 year, or if we can do it over a longer period of time. I 4 mean, the -- I mean, my preference on the -- on the tax rate 5 is the current tax rate, not the effective rate. But I also 6 believe that the -- we've asked, as the budgeting body of the 7 county, all the employees to do more with less, and we've 8 also -- in that same time, we have reduced their health care 9 benefits where they have a higher deductible than they used 10 to have. So, you know, I would like to keep that increase in 11 there for the employees, and build reserves a little bit 12 slower, would be my preference, because I think -- you know, 13 it's kind of like crying wolf. You know, we asked them to 14 help, and they've helped. And, you know, we -- you know, I 15 don't think we ever said, you know, "If you help us, we'll 16 help you later," but that was certainly implied. And we 17 have -- we have reduced staff county-wide. I mean, certain 18 departments may or may not; county-wide, we have. I think 19 we've done a very good, budget-wise, job. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, last year, you know, 21 was a kind of a banner year in a way, because we got to do 22 all the above, and didn't raise the tax rate. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We put a lot more money in 25 reserve than we had because just the time of year, plus the 8-23-12 51 1 employees got 4 percent. Elected officials didn't get 2 anything, but that's -- you know, that was -- that was an 3 unusual year last year that we were able to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it was unusual because we 5 asked and received employee cuts, and -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly how it 7 happened. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it wasn't as -- you know, 9 it was everyone pulling together. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it's just a matter of 11 whether you want to adopt the present -- to use the present 12 tax rate or go to the effective rate and work within that 13 amount of money. Whether you want to build the reserve more, 14 or whether you want to give some of that to employees. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and my preference is to 16 give some to employees, and -- and work on our reserve over 17 the next years. I'm not saying I agree with every increase. 18 I think some -- I'm not sure I understand some of the 19 increases. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can tell you one I don't 21 agree with, and that's the extra 2 and a half for Maintenance 22 people that was proposed in that last deal. You get 3, and 23 they just single out the Maintenance people, give them an 24 additional 2 and a half? I don't -- I don't buy that. That 25 seems -- that doesn't seem fair to the other employees to me. 8-23-12 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They do a great job, and they 3 got a great staff. The staff of Maintenance people is really 4 good. They do a really fine job at seeing that a lot of it 5 happens. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm torn whether -- do you 7 give them more salary or hire another person? You know, 8 seems like to me you get -- I don't know that more money gets 9 more work done, but more people do. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think more money brings more 11 qualified people. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's possible. But I 13 think the bottom line question is, if you adopt the effective 14 tax rate, does that budget -- does that -- does that create a 15 tax increase? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course it does, point 0 -- 17 almost a penny. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you -- so you 19 consider raising taxes, and then give a bunch of people 20 raises. That doesn't -- I can't do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I said. I think we 22 stay with the current rate. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Current tax rate. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, if you wanted to pare 25 back the raises, which I don't have any interest in, then you 8-23-12 53 1 can adopt the effective rate, maybe. But we can't do -- I 2 don't think we can do it all at one time, or shouldn't. 3 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I think your reserve two 4 years ago was just about 9 and 10 percent, and I think, 5 again, like has been said numerous times already today, that, 6 you know, the County's efforts in increasing to where we're 7 at today, almost 20 percent, and still having some growth 8 even with the current tax rate, with the things that we're 9 trying to get caught up here that we put off for four years, 10 still is remarkable in itself. So, I -- I mean, it's like 11 you said. Another year or two, you're going to get to that 12 25 percent, and continue to keep doing what we're doing. So, 13 it's just my -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Provided we don't have some 15 kind of -- 16 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: We don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- things that you don't know 18 could happen. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: But it's moving the right 20 direction. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I will say on the employee 22 increases, you know, I'm not real keen on the one for the 23 Clerk's office, or their change -- I guess it's a net change, 24 but I'm still not sure how we're ending up with a net -- 25 basically, we're not keeping a position that wasn't filled 8-23-12 54 1 this year, even though it was on the schedule. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's put it on our list. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a one-issue list now. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- we're not where 6 we're adding a person and reducing 38,000. It's just -- 7 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Got two unfilled positions. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, you're filling one 9 and restructuring. 10 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I was under the 12 impression we were hiring another person, so under that 13 scenario, I'll go along with the -- with the -- you know, 14 saving 38,000, even though it's a little bit odd the way it 15 looks. I think the Tax Assessor needs another spot, but I 16 think that spot is where we're getting in a little bit of a 17 fine area. You know, it's her department for her to run as 18 she wants, but I strongly urge for -- that position is going 19 to continue to be a bookkeeper; otherwise -- you know, 'cause 20 that's what I -- from what I gather, that's what we need 21 there. And in my mind, this -- you know, if it goes 22 somewhere else down the road, that spot, in my mind, might go 23 away, because that's -- you know, that's Diane's call as to 24 how she uses her own staff. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's talk about the 198th 8-23-12 55 1 District Judge. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mean about the pay cut 3 you're wanting to give? (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The pay cut. Are we going 5 to do it? I don't think we have a whole lot to do with that 6 either. All right, let's do a resolution to Harvey about 7 that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go to the issue of the 9 request for 2.5 for all the folks, excluding the department 10 head, of course, in the Maintenance Department. There were 11 two different departments that I put in my budget 12 recommendation that all of the folks in the department, save 13 and excepting the department heads, receive an additional 14 2.5. I'm speaking from recollection, so, Dawn, help me out. 15 But we studied the -- the pay level -- pay grade as against 16 the skill levels that those people are required to have in 17 both of those departments, and the feeling was that the pay 18 grade level was not commensurate with the skill level. And 19 that's the reason I made a recommendation, and that was 20 included in the budget which I filed. I hear total silence, 21 not only from up here, but from out there. 22 MS. UECKER: Well, I can give you a little 23 background about that. I mean, it's not my opinion one way 24 or the other. I guess I've been here too damn long. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. It's not your 8-23-12 56 1 opinion? 2 MS. UECKER: Hmm? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not your opinion? 4 MS. UECKER: Well, years ago -- and I think Buster 5 was here and Jonathan was here when I came to the Court and I 6 proposed -- I had a problem. And I'm not saying Maintenance 7 didn't do a good job. They do an excellent job. I love all 8 those guys; I love everybody that works in there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We love you too, Linda. 10 MS. UECKER: Thank you. But the problem I had with 11 it is someone that doesn't speak English was making the 12 same -- well, didn't have to; that's what I'm saying. Didn't 13 -- not that they don't, but they didn't have to, was making 14 the same salary as my entry level, Jannett's entry level, and 15 Tax Assessor, and I don't know how many others that had to 16 learn how to use complicated computer skills, learn how to 17 use law books, learn how to deal with difficult people, had 18 to sit in the courtrooms and work with tacky attorneys. And 19 -- sorry, Judge. (Laughter.) But that's just the way it is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, can you look at anybody 21 else in the room? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you -- 23 MS. UECKER: And at that time, the Court -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. -- let me interrupt here. 25 MS. UECKER: Okay. 8-23-12 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize, and am sorry I gave an 2 open invitation. 3 MS. UECKER: Okay. Well, I'll sit down, but I just 4 wanted to give you a little background. That's how that all 5 came about, because I brought it up. And I remember 6 Commissioner Griffin was over there, and I think almost 7 everybody agreed. And the clerical staff was raised 2 and a 8 half percent because their skill level was much greater than 9 the entry level of janitor, and they were making the same 10 amount of money. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 MS. UECKER: You're welcome. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I don't have a clue 14 what she's talking about. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's hallucinating. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't even know her. 17 MS. UECKER: Yeah, you do. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, are we done for today? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I get an up or down on the 20 lieutenant? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Up or down? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You were -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's down. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. I just need an 25 answer. 8-23-12 58 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Down. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Boy, that didn't take long, did it, 3 Rusty? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. And what I'm asking for 5 is an answer, Judge. Now, I -- I do think -- and I know 6 there hasn't been that much discussion on -- on employees' 7 salaries and that, and I think Jonathan made the comment 8 about reserves or giving back to the employees. One thing I 9 will say, and it's not just been last year. For the last 10 several years, this Court has asked the departments heads, 11 the elected officials, to cut and cut and cut. And we've had 12 our employees cut, we've had our salaries held, we've had 13 health benefits drop with rising deductibles, okay? And the 14 employees have given more than any employees, I think, 15 should, and the elected officials and the department heads 16 have given more than they should. And I will give you one 17 example, being my own personal salary -- and I don't mind 18 saying it, 'cause I just don't agree with the way this 19 Court's handled it. My chief deputy makes $2,000 a year less 20 than the elected official. You've got a Chief of Police that 21 makes between 20,000 and 30,000 a year more than your Sheriff 22 who's in charge of the courts, the jails, 1,100 square miles, 23 and 95 employees. And on those type deals -- and if you look 24 ratio-wise and divide it out with what you have -- with what 25 our elected officials who are directly responsible to the 8-23-12 59 1 public give and the salaries they have, compared to city 2 department heads who don't have that -- they've got a City 3 Manager or Mayor that may be responsible to the public, but 4 none of the rest of them are elected, and none of the rest of 5 them answer directly to the public or take that 6 responsibility. And I think it's a shame the way this 7 Court's treated elected officials and department heads, and 8 if it takes a few more years to build up a few more million 9 back in the reserve, then I agree with that, because I think 10 it's time to give it to the department heads and the elected 11 officials and pay them for what -- the work they actually 12 give this county. 13 MS. UECKER: The department heads got it, though, 14 didn't they? 15 MS. BOLIN: Department heads got it last year. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Department heads got some. 17 Elected officials didn't get some. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In this budget, it is. Don't 19 elected officials get a raise in here? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 21 MS. UECKER: Last year it was just department 22 heads. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Last year we didn't get any. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six percent increase. 25 MS. PIEPER: We're asking you to keep it in this 8-23-12 60 1 year; don't take it out. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This year you're giving three 3 to everybody and three more to the elected officials, okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the proposal. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What you're doing, just to be 6 honest, is -- and I'm going to use this, okay? Does anybody 7 -- Judge, I may not need to ask this, but do you think that 8 between the department -- or a department head, like my 9 second-in-command, and the elected official, a $2,000 10 difference in salary a year is correct? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think it should be more. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause that will still stay 13 the same. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it should be more. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we need to keep raising 16 the chief deputy's salary. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Still a solution. Or reduce it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, reduce it. That would 19 be the way to handle that. Not a very popular way to do it, 20 but... 21 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I have one last thing to say, 22 just to make note of it. We do, in our proposed budget, have 23 the grant for the library funding that's in here. Again, we 24 received that grant from the Cailloux Foundation last year 25 for the library funding. I would like again to just say 8-23-12 61 1 publicly, thank you for the Cailloux Foundation and your 2 support and their grant funding that came through the county 3 kind of like an in-and-out coming through here for the 4 library. Again, we are very grateful for the H.E.B. folks 5 here in our community, the library's history here, and I know 6 that you guys will be looking at interlocals down the road, 7 but the funding here for the grant that's coming in here 8 coming up for next year, I just want to say thanks again for 9 the opportunity to have that grant funding come in to support 10 the library. And -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the way you put it in 12 the budget, Judge? 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: As a grant? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To receive that from the 15 Cailloux's again? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 17 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: It's in there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: It's shown in there as a -- if there 19 is any library funding, that it would come -- 20 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: From them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- through the Cailloux grant. But 22 it's not -- there are no county dollars shown in there. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just wanted to note that if 24 they come through -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I saw that in there; I just 8-23-12 62 1 wasn't -- 2 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I just want to say thank you 3 for doing that. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just wasn't sure how that 5 was going to transpire. 6 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Thanks for the support they 7 did last year, very much so. 8 MR. MOSER: Judge, a question, if I might, before 9 you close. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 11 MR. MOSER: Is there -- at the top level in the 12 budget that you submitted, is there something that shows -- 13 or what the answer is, the percentage increase in revenue, 14 percentage increase in expenditures last year to the 15 projected next year? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a summary sheet that 17 should -- 18 MR. MOSER: Yeah. Well, I guess -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we should be able to compute that 20 from. 21 MR. MOSER: Yeah. I don't think a lot of us saw 22 the summary sheet, so that was -- it may be in there. That 23 was just a curiosity question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the summary sheet gives you 25 the opening and the closing. But, of course, the closing for 8-23-12 63 1 September 30, 2013, of course, for the coming budget year, 2 that's the best estimate that we can make. 3 MR. MOSER: Yeah. I probably just didn't see that 4 summary sheet, was the reason I asked that question. Another 5 question. Guy mentioned a 3 percent cost-of-living, but when 6 I look at the budget you submitted, there were a lot in -- 7 especially department heads and things like that, that were 6 8 percent-plus increases. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, wait a minute. Say that again? 10 MR. MOSER: I said Guy mentioned something about 11 recommending a 3 percent across-the-board cost-of-living 12 increase. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. 14 MR. MOSER: But when I look at some individual 15 department heads and all, it's like 6 percent or more 16 increase in some department heads. So, was that 17 cost-of-living plus another 3 percent? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No. I -- I don't have any idea what 19 you're talking about, because it shouldn't be showing that. 20 There were some department heads that there were specific 21 increases, and that was part of the discussion that we had 22 previously. And there were some modest increases to 23 department heads; I believe the highest one was I.T, and that 24 department head got a 1.8 percent. The lower end of it, I 25 don't recall the exact percentage, but that 1.8 was the 8-23-12 64 1 highest. 2 MR. MOSER: Oh. Well, I don't -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It went down from there. Now, those 4 same individuals would be receiving the 3 percent. 5 MR. MOSER: Okay. I'm not -- I'm just going to 6 choose one, so I'm not picking on you, Jannett. But the 7 County Clerk, from the current budget to the proposed budget, 8 is a 6 percent increase in official salary. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. That's elected 10 official. 11 MR. MOSER: Okay, that's what -- that was my 12 question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. MOSER: So, elected officials, it's 6 percent 15 or whatever is in your budget in here, whereas the rest of 16 the employees, it's a level across-the-board 3 percent; is 17 that correct? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The elected officials have not had 19 any increases in some time. We've tried to at least keep the 20 employees with some increases, so the additional 3 percent 21 for the elected officials is an attempt to play catch-up. 22 MR. MOSER: Okay, got you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you heard Commissioner 24 Overby talking about the term "catch-up." 25 MR. MOSER: Yeah, got you. Okay, thank you. 8-23-12 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And, actually, when we talk more 2 about catch-up, what a lot of this is based upon, and that we 3 look to, there -- there's an annual salary survey, and that's 4 completed through Texas Association of Counties, and we -- or 5 at least I try -- and I know the Auditor does, and I know 6 Dawn has reviewed the survey. You try and look at -- at 7 comparable counties. Population generally is how it's broken 8 down. And you look at those elected officials, several of 9 them in that bracket. And what happens is, we say, well, we 10 need to make some adjustment here to bring it up to the floor 11 of what we're seeing from this study, roughly. 12 MR. MOSER: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- the problem is, that 14 catch-up's already a year old, so you always start off 15 behind, unfortunately. I hope that's sufficient. 16 MR. MOSER: No, you answered my question. Thank 17 you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the reason that 20 some of the salaries look more like -- for the County 21 Attorney, for example, it's 2 and a half percent that he gave 22 up, trying then to get him back to normal, or to where he, 23 you know, would have been without giving -- taking the pay 24 cut, and then he gets 3 percent and 3 percent. So, if you 25 add all that up it's -- 8-23-12 66 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Eight and a half. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 8 and a half. 8 and a half, 3 9 percent. But -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only way we can exceed 6 5 percent, is if they're recouping a decrease that they 6 voluntarily took. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the across-the-board, you 8 know, I'd say when the economy went south in 2008, they're 9 still -- you know, the elected officials have not had any 10 increases. They were the first in line, and they -- y'all 11 know -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They gave up -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we gave up, you know, and 14 some took pay cuts. The department heads were the -- you 15 know, the next ones that really held tight in trying to help 16 the employees while we were asking them to do more with less 17 staff. And so it's a little bit of a catch-up year. And, 18 you know, the only way -- and the reason we're able to do it, 19 and I think it's -- I support this, is that the other side of 20 that is we have cut expenditures substantially. I mean, if 21 you look at the -- you know, we're spending -- projected end 22 of this year, you know, about 500,000 less than our -- this 23 is general fund only, not even counting some of the other 24 funds; 500,000 less than three, four years ago. And so we're 25 -- you know, we've -- we have held the line and reduced 8-23-12 67 1 spending, and the budget shows that. So, you know, we're 2 doing it with less staff, so these people should be get paid 3 a little bit better, in my mind. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What we're trying to do is to give 5 due where it is due. We're in the shape that we're in now, 6 which almost miraculously, when you look at where we were 7 just a few years ago and look at our reserves then, and where 8 we've come from that, I think it doesn't take a whole lot of 9 study, looking at that financial history and transition, to 10 see that we've come a long way. But we've done it solely 11 because of the people, and our people are our only assets. 12 They are our organization. They are county government, and 13 they're -- they're responsible for getting us here. They're 14 responsible for the success we've had in kind of crawling out 15 of this hole, notwithstanding the fact that we've been in a 16 time of economic downturn, to get us back to where we are, 17 which in this day and time is pretty doggone good shape. And 18 we try and make sure that they get recognized for it. The 19 only way we can really do it, other than say "thank you," and 20 hopefully we all do that fairly doggone frequently -- I know 21 sometimes I'm remiss; I don't when I should, but I try to. 22 And that's our success, our people. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we also -- because of 24 the tax roll this year and the decrease, we're doing a budget 25 cut again this year, really. I mean, we're -- like I'm 8-23-12 68 1 hearing, anyway, at the current tax rate, we're bringing in 2 270,000 less than last year? 3 MS. HARGIS: 733. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 730,000. 700,000. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, bull. It's not 730. 6 That's all bull. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, bringing in less. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pure bull. Can't replace -- 9 you can't have a reduction like that and then have an 10 increase in salaries and call that almost a million-dollar 11 loss. That's bull. That's bull. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ad valorem tax revenue this year 13 will be down over 700,000 from last year. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the frozen tax value 15 that we're losing. That number's starting to get smaller 16 every year. That's -- I don't buy that. You can't do -- you 17 can't do what we're -- what you're proposing to do on less 18 than a penny and do everything else. It's not possible. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to say this, that 21 county government is the front porch of all government. And 22 it's George Bush's fault. (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm leaving. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 8-23-12 69 1 MS. HARGIS: I need -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You had something? 3 MS. HARGIS: I want to be sure -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a moment. Let's see what the 5 gentleman has. 6 MR. SMITH: Is this the final meeting before budget 7 approval? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, it's not. 9 MR. SMITH: All right. I'll have more to say at 10 the final session. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'd be happy to hear what you 12 have to say today. 13 MR. SMITH: Well, a lot of it concerns law 14 enforcement. That -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 16 MR. SMITH: A lot of it concerns law enforcement 17 operating efficiently. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. SMITH: Contracts -- contracts that -- and 20 within the county that are mandated to be anything over a 21 certain amount is competitive bidding. I represent a group 22 called Public TAC. Taxpayers -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What's -- 24 MR. SMITH: Public TAC. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your name, sir? 8-23-12 70 1 MR. SMITH: Taxpayers Accountability Group, Public 2 TAC. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And your name, sir? 4 MR. SMITH: We find that coming to an open forum 5 like this -- I'd rather not give my name. It's a public 6 meeting. Is that possible? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, public meeting -- if you want 8 to talk in a public meeting, we need to know who you are. 9 MR. SMITH: The Sheriff knows me. Lamont Smith. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Lamont Smith. All right, sir, go 11 ahead. 12 MR. SMITH: But there's -- in the course of things 13 like forfeiture, seizure funds, the contracting of, like I 14 said, anything mandated for competitive bidding, I feel the 15 Sheriff's Department needs nonpaid reserves, fully qualified, 16 fully functional reserve officers that can save them money. 17 I feel that they -- as a group, we feel that they could do 18 more to collect prisoner health care costs with civil 19 deputies, civil process. They are investigators. A person 20 is always liable for those medical costs. When it's -- when 21 you go look at their assets -- look at their hidden assets, 22 they might have health insurance. You know, you collect off 23 that. That has to be more active. We're concerned that the 24 -- that they have a -- I don't know how many civil officers 25 that are paid, yet we have constables doing the same work. 8-23-12 71 1 Civil process is a constable's job. The constables should 2 have nonpaid reservists to back them up. Nonpaid, qualified, 3 certified reservists are a taxpayer godsend in Texas. Many 4 county -- many counties use them, and they have to be 5 approved by the Commissioners. But we're concerned that, 6 like, elected officials are not asking for them, because they 7 do need the help. 8 But there's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of 9 dollars, I'm sure, in prisoner health care costs that could 10 be and should be collected as under the Family Code. So, 11 we'll be approaching more and more about also accountability 12 of vehicles that -- with your log reports, things like that. 13 There's certain county vehicles that we feel are -- just have 14 a -- a carte blanche to where they drive and where they go 15 and what they do, and there will be more in a -- a subject to 16 you. Some counties are actually tagging with small monitors, 17 very expensive, and tagging where their vehicles go so they 18 know where that vehicle is at all times. Very efficient. 19 Helps them out. So, we'll be talking more. And these are 20 some ideas to save the county hundreds of thousands that's 21 due, that's owed, that they need. And he's talking about 22 taking pay cuts. That's true, but there's money that needs 23 to be collected from them, and certain help that they could 24 get. I don't know why anyone would refuse free, qualified, 25 certified help. Thank you. 8-23-12 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. And you had some 2 comments, Ms. Hargis? 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, because I'm going to bring a 4 document to you on Monday, I'm assuming, like Commissioner 5 Baldwin said, that it would be ready to vote on. I kind of 6 need to know a couple of answers here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- 8 MS. HARGIS: I heard current tax rate from all of 9 you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You heard that from me. 12 MS. HARGIS: And anything else? Any positions 13 taken out or anything else? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's pretty clear. From 15 there, the possible issue would be -- sounds to me like COLA, 16 that's not an issue. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as we can afford it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Might want to reduce Bruce's 19 salary by half. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Current tax rate. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Try that and see how it 22 works for you. 23 MS. HARGIS: He might want yours done; I'd have to 24 do both. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All -- with me, it's 8-23-12 73 1 definitely the present tax rate. It's not even up for -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 3 direct the Auditor to redo the budget with the current tax 4 rate. 5 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I'll second that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 7 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Is that it for 13 now, gentlemen? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I expect. 15 MS. WHITT: I have a question. I don't know that 16 this is the appropriate time to bring this up, but on the 17 estrays, when we do the estrays for the Sheriff's Department 18 and we haul them to auction or the owner reclaims them, we 19 send the check to the Sheriff's Department, and out of that 20 we put in what we are -- what is to be reimbursed to my line 21 item, my operating expense. And in the last couple of years, 22 that hasn't been -- that hasn't been done. It's going -- 23 it's all going into -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Your thing. 25 MS. WHITT: -- into the jury fund. That's an 8-23-12 74 1 internal accounting administration issue, as I see it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it probably -- 3 MS. WHITT: We need -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it probably is. We 5 actually have a $500 budget line item for that. And what 6 that $500 is is to reimburse, the first time, her. Okay? 7 For their very first-time costs. After that, whatever the 8 animal sells for, or what we collect back from the owner, the 9 first part of that is always supposed to have gone back to 10 reimburse Animal Control for their costs, and the remainder 11 of those funds by law go to the jury fund of the county. And 12 I don't see that there needs to be anything -- any changes in 13 it. I don't know why she's not getting it in her budget. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was my question. Do we 15 need to -- 16 MS. HARGIS: There hasn't been that much money 17 coming in. 18 MS. WHITT: Well, there's a lot going -- I mean, I 19 should be due -- reimbursed for the fee for hauling for all 20 of that; it's quite a bit. 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, I have to look, but the last 22 time I looked it was only $500 in there. 23 MS. WHITT: Well, I just didn't know if y'all 24 needed to change anything, or -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think we're probably 8-23-12 75 1 okay without having to -- 2 MS. WHITT: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- fool with that again. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One thing I think that needs 5 to be mentioned is that we just asked the Auditor to redo the 6 budget within the present tax rate. That budget needs to be 7 a balanced budget within revenues, and not a deficit budget. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, state law requires that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just -- I just want to 10 make sure that -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good point. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we don't dip into reserves 13 as a result of, you know, approving some things -- some 14 expenses that could cause it to be a deficit budget, or over 15 projected revenues. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good point. That's 17 a good point. 18 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: That's why I asked the 19 question about what reserve was going in. That's why I asked 20 her. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but I've been down 22 this path a time or two. 23 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing, I know the 25 Sheriff is anxiously waiting to hear about his salary. Once 8-23-12 76 1 we rerun the numbers, we'll see what his salary is compared 2 to his chief deputy. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We probably -- probably need to -- 4 need to add to the agenda for Monday an issue about consider 5 abolishment of any rule which requires the Sheriff's salary 6 to be at least $5,000 in excess of his chief deputy. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a court order now? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm told there's a court 10 order. You've told -- you've been -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've probably told you that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. You may have been the one 13 that told me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there one? 15 MS. PIEPER: I believe there is. 16 MR. HENNEKE: I don't think there is. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It hasn't been adhered to if 18 there is, and I don't know. I'm not -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, we have two noes and 20 two yeses. 21 MS. PIEPER: I could be wrong. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if there ever was one, 23 that will take care of it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That was my point. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If there ever was one, it was 8-23-12 77 1 taken care of last year when the budget was approved. That I 2 can promise you. 3 MS. PIEPER: I think it was discussed, but never 4 voted on, if I'm correct. 5 MS. THOMPSON: There was a court order for one 6 specific year to address that issue. There was not a 7 standing court order that says this is the rule. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To infinity. 9 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 10 MS. THOMPSON: Because we have researched that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That answers that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we don't need to include it, 13 then. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll just make a note that 15 that is no longer in existence for more than one year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, anything else? 17 We'll be adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 4:35 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-23-12 78 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of August, 8 2012. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-23-12