1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 26, 2012 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 2 1 I N D E X November 26, 2012 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request to use polo field area at Hill Country Youth Event Center to start year-round soccer 5 league - 6 1.2 Discuss/approve going out to bid for OSSF mitigation and installation of approved Round 2 7 applicants for OSSF Grant 710065 8 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize KCEHD Director to fill open 17.1 9 OSSF inspector position; change position from permanent full-time to permanent part-time 11 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 11 request to renew Kerr County Market Days Usage License for 2013 13 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 approve use of Flat Rock Park by Kerrville Public School Foundation for annual duck race 14 community event 18 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding the widening of Holloman Road at 16 Goat Creek 27 17 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on the War Memorial Committee’s recommended requirements 18 for individuals to be included on Kerr County War Memorial 54 19 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 reappoint Donald Oehler and Cheryl Thompson to Kerr County Emergency Services District #1 Board 21 of Commissioners for a 2-year term 67 22 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint Jeannie Schladoer and Perin Wells to 23 Kerr County Emergency Services District #2 Board of Commissioners for a 2-year term 68 24 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 approve contract with Court-Appointed Special Advocates; allow County Judge to sign same 68 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 26, 2012 2 PAGE 3 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding Friends of Kerr County Historical 4 Commission funds held in trust by Kerr County, including refund of funds to FKCHC or donation 5 of funds by FKCHC to Kerr County for the purpose of improvements at Schreiner University property 6 where Union Church is located 69 7 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to expend funds for improvement of Union Church 8 facility 70 9 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding Phase 2 of Event Center at Hill 10 Country Youth Event Center 86 11 4.1 Pay Bills 106 4.2 Budget Amendments 107 12 4.3 Late Bills 112 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 113 13 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 14 Assignments 114 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 114 15 --- Adjourned 123 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, November 26, 2012, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, November the 26th, 2012, at 9 a.m. It 11 is that time now. If you would, please, if you'd rise and 12 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of 13 allegiance to the flag of our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 17 that wishes to be heard on a matter which is not a listed 18 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 19 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on an 20 agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a participation 21 form. There should be some located at the rear of the room. 22 That gives me an opportunity to know that when we get to that 23 item, that there is someone who needs to be recognized. 24 However, if you fail to fill out a participation form and do 25 want to be heard with regard to a listed agenda item, get my 11-26-12 5 1 attention in some manner when we get to that item and I will 2 see that you get the opportunity to be heard. But right now, 3 if there's any member of the public or audience that wishes 4 to be heard with respect to any matter which is not a listed 5 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 6 tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming forward, 7 Commissioner Letz, do you have something for us this morning? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just had a great long holiday 9 weekend. I saw one member of the courthouse community in 10 Comfort at the parade. The Auditor was there. Others may 11 have been there, but I only saw one. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't see me, sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a -- I don't know; I 14 wasn't there during the daytime event, but I know it was a 15 big hit, as it always is. There was over 100 entries. It 16 was a lot of fun. That's all I have. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All you got, huh? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I got. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not much here, except for the 21 progress on the show barn is still moving along. I was out 22 there this morning, and they should get -- get it done in the 23 next three weeks. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: How about the exterior skin? Is 25 that -- 11-26-12 6 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's going up as we speak. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be finished when? This week? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, close to this week. 6 The block layer's going to get through, I think we said 7 Wednesday, and all the restroom stuff, plumber's going to 8 start topping out. Going to get ready to power-wash down the 9 ceiling pretty soon. Sprinkler system's in. Road and Bridge 10 is digging this morning, I believe, on the -- to connect up 11 the fire line to the inside of the building where they're 12 going to have kind of a mechanical room there for that coming 13 in and some other things. The power should be cut, and then 14 we get rid of all the old stuff shortly, within the next, I 15 think, two weeks. They'll see all the new power hooked into 16 the old building as well as the new. And all those old holes 17 and breakers and all that stuff will come out of there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Road and Bridge, they're 20 doing the fire line digging, and the plumber's a little bit 21 slower than they'd like to see, but -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't keep up with Road and Bridge? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. But, anyway -- and 24 they're going to try to get the fire line in across the front 25 of the old building this morning -- this week, and get that 11-26-12 7 1 done so that it will be finished. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Moser, do you have 5 anything for us this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I do. First of all, let 7 me say that I appreciate being here, appreciate all the 8 voters that supported me. I look forward to working with 9 you, Judge, other Commissioners, department heads, the staff 10 and the citizens. I think it's going to be a great 11 experience. Being the rookie, though -- you know, not the 12 youngest guy on the Court, but I guess in seniority I am. 13 There's one thing that I'd like to report on this morning, is 14 out at the airport, we had the Airport Board meeting last -- 15 last Monday. I sat in the audience as a liaison from the 16 county there, and there was an issue out at the airport some 17 time ago where the ditch that exists is in violation of 18 F.A.A. runway safety area; it's called an R.S.A. Everybody's 19 got to have an acronym. And to move the ditch or relocate 20 the ditch out of that safety area was initially shown to be 21 $200,000. Well, the bottom line today, on the high side, 22 assuming that the County does the dirt work, which Len Odom's 23 been talked to about doing that, and if the City does the 24 paving, it will cost the City and the County probably less 25 than $2,500 each to do this. 11-26-12 8 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Great. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, going back and 3 reengineering that thing, looking at different ways of doing 4 it, taking a short pencil to some of the analysis that was 5 done, and I think that that's a significant reduction, so 6 that's moving in the right direction as far as expenditures 7 are concerned. And that will -- because it is -- it's a deep 8 ditch, and if a plane went off in there, we would -- we'd all 9 be in deep trouble. So, that's all I have to report. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 11 Let's get on with our agenda. First item's a 9 o'clock timed 12 item; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 13 request to use the polo field area at the Hill Country Youth 14 Event Center to start year-round soccer league. Is Mr. Elias 15 Gomez here? Mr. Gomez? Have we heard from Mr. Gomez? 16 MS. GRINSTEAD: I've not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume we'll pass on that until we 18 know more about what his request is. That will help us start 19 to catch up. Item 2, a 9:05 timed item; to consider, 20 discuss, and approve going out for bid for O.S.S.F. 21 mitigation and installation of approved Round 2 applicants 22 for O.S.S.F. Grant 710065. Mr. Garcia? 23 MR. GARCIA: Morning, Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning. 25 MR. GARCIA: Commissioners. 11-26-12 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning to you. 2 MR. GARCIA: Tom, congratulations. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 4 MR. GARCIA: Yes, we are ready to move to Round 2. 5 We have five that met the requirements and qualify. Also, we 6 have one other one that we have just a signature we're 7 waiting on to move forward on that, so that'll be a total of 8 six for this round. I'm going to turn the rest over to Emily 9 here. 10 MS. PHALAN: Just a quick update on the project. 11 We did get the six-month approval for the contract and date 12 extension, so we have till April for this project, or until 13 the next application deadline for the Colonia Fund, which 14 we're not sure when that'll be yet, but we'll try and wrap 15 the project up before then so the County will be eligible to 16 apply. And we do have a couple other applications in the 17 works, so we're trying to get the final paperwork in to get a 18 couple more people. But other than that, we will just move 19 forward with these eligible now. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Garcia, you indicated that you 21 were going to try and bring what you had ready to us so that 22 we could start moving them forward, and as you had more that 23 had been reviewed and had qualified, why, then you would 24 bring them to us? 25 MR. GARCIA: Right. 11-26-12 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But you're working in a pretty tight 2 window here, and you need to push this thing forward? 3 MR. GARCIA: And we are -- I had spoken to the 4 Auditor, and Jeannie also had some recommendations that when 5 we get them in, we start moving quickly and bring them in one 6 by one, instead of waiting to gather them up, you know, by 7 fives or whatever. Now when we get them in, we're going to 8 bring them up, get them out there and get them in. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, essentially, you got half a 10 dozen of them ready for us right now? 11 MR. GARCIA: We would -- no, we have -- yes, sir. 12 Yes, right, with the one that needs a signature and then 13 we're good to go, yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So how many are left, Ray, 16 that can be connected that are in the pipeline? 17 MR. GARCIA: There's not a number, per se. Again, 18 it's those that will come forward and those that we do talk 19 to that we do have maybe some problems with, that we contact 20 them and let them know and give them the information. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But everybody out there that 22 could potentially -- 23 MR. GARCIA: If -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- be connected, how many? 25 MR. GARCIA: If it was to that, then we'd probably 11-26-12 11 1 be right around maybe five or six more. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's it? 3 MR. GARCIA: And that's it for that area there. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Fantastic. 5 MR. GARCIA: And that's in the Hill River Country 6 Estates area; let me clarify that. And then we have some out 7 in Precinct 4 also that we've taken care of and that will be 8 taken care of in this round too. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion with 10 respect to Item 2? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move to 21 Item 3; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 22 authorize the Kerr County Environmental Health Department 23 Director to fill an open 17.1 O.S.S.F. inspector position, 24 and change that position from permanent full-time to 25 permanent part-time. Mr. Garcia? 11-26-12 12 1 MR. GARCIA: Yes. I lost another one to the Eagle 2 Ford Shale. Rusty has -- quite a few of us are getting a 3 pretty good turnover on that. And let me clarify something. 4 The reason why an O.S.S.F. inspector is wanted out there, 5 it's not for septics; it's because site evaluations are 6 almost hand-in-hand with, you know, that industry. So, they 7 get this type of training, and then, you know, when you can 8 go make twice as much or three times as much as what you're 9 making for us, you know, it is what it is. So, again, with 10 the way the construction here is in Kerr County, and it -- 11 the dip it took, we can work with -- I can work with a 12 part-time person. Also, I can also keep that person, and 13 keep that person as an apprentice and keep that from having a 14 full qualification as a Designated Representative. And that 15 way still she can work under -- or that person can work under 16 any one of the Designated Representatives. And then I can 17 also have this person cross-trained into the solid waste and 18 environmental, all that stuff we do there, too. I would like 19 to keep that position and just keep it out of that line item 20 for the Designated Representatives, and keep it in the 21 full-time position, but just fill it right now with a 22 part-time person. And then as it -- if the economy changes, 23 then we'll move forward from there and come back and visit 24 with you guys and ask to bring it back to full-time. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have any problem with 11-26-12 13 1 that at all. To me, he's trying to -- trying to get by 2 without hiring a full-time, and I think that's a good 3 proposal to do it as a part-time. And if he needs it later 4 on, he'll come back and justify it, and then we can work with 5 it at that time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I'll move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 10 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 11 right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 16 MR. GARCIA: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Ray. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And thank you, Mr. Garcia. Let's go 19 to Item 4; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 20 on request to renew the Kerr County Market Days usage license 21 for 2013. Ms. Anderson, good to see you again. 22 MS. ANDERSON: Good morning, Judge, Commissioners. 23 Good to be here. Thank you for your time this morning. 24 We're here once again to ask for your permission to conduct 25 Market Days here at the courthouse for 2013. It surprises me 11-26-12 14 1 every year how long it's been, but -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: How long has it been? 3 MS. ANDERSON: 2013 will be our 12th year. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Time flies when you're having fun. 5 MS. ANDERSON: Don't it, though? We don't really 6 see any changes to our schedule or our operation for the 7 coming year. We renew our commitment to you to respect and 8 honor the grounds here at the courthouse, and to do our best 9 to promote events that is worthy of Kerr County and that 10 brings in customers for our local businesses, both from our 11 local community and from across the state of Texas. With 12 that, I'll just close by saying, again, thank you to Tim 13 Bollier and his staff, the job they do here at the 14 courthouse. We're always appreciative, when we come down 15 here to have a market, at how nice the grounds look, how 16 well-maintained the courthouse is, and we appreciate the job 17 that they do. So, we'd request your approval. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions of Ms. Anderson? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is there a schedule of dates 20 when you plan to do this? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 MS. ANDERSON: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There is? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the backup. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I missed it. All right. 11-26-12 15 1 Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once a month, basically, 3 starting in March. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Except for your two big markets, 5 which is Memorial Day and Thanksgiving, and which you'll have 6 two days each of those, just like you completed here over the 7 weekend, right? 8 MS. ANDERSON: And it was one of the best ones 9 we've ever had. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I was going to ask. 11 And that's what -- with the participation, I presume everyone 12 is spending money and buying stuff. Otherwise, they wouldn't 13 come back. 14 MS. ANDERSON: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: How many vendors did you have here 16 this past weekend? 17 MS. ANDERSON: If you count the ones -- as a 18 two-day market, we had the bulk of vendors here for both 19 days. We had a few that were only here on Friday, a few that 20 were only here on Saturday, but when you add it up, we were 21 at about 93 for the total vendor participation. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wow. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And all of your vendors were 24 reasonably happy? 25 MS. ANDERSON: They certainly seemed to be. 11-26-12 16 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I noticed that the -- the 2 traffic downtown, and particularly around the courthouse, 3 vehicle-wise and people walking around down here, was pretty 4 extensive. So -- 5 MS. ANDERSON: And one of the things that I take so 6 much pleasure in seeing is when I look around and I see the 7 families on the lawn, people walking their dogs. We welcome 8 pets on a leash. It's a pet- and family-friendly event, 9 people meeting and greeting and talking and visiting, and 10 eating their sandwiches out on the lawn. Feels like it's the 11 right kind of thing. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a desire to expand it 13 at all, or is it kind of at the size it needs to be? 14 MS. ANDERSON: I think it's at a place that's very 15 manageable. In the early years, we tried expanding out onto 16 Earl Garrett, and physically it just gets so big that -- with 17 our staff, it's really -- I think we're best if we kind of 18 stay about where we are. We can -- we can control it. We 19 can manage it. We can observe what's happening, and we can 20 do proper screening of the applications to participate. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And two other -- the County 22 Attorney's reviewed it? Same agreement as last year? 23 MR. HENNEKE: Last year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to my other 25 question, the reason I brought it up is that the former Mayor 11-26-12 17 1 Wampler and I had a discussion at one point about, you know, 2 he had a desire to expand a market something like this, or a 3 flea market at some point, thought it would be a great thing 4 for the community. And I agree with him; I think it would 5 have been. And now that there's -- I don't know that a flea 6 market would fit here, but across the street, there's a 7 lot -- next to the new city hall, there's a lot of open 8 property now available, so if there -- if there is a need to 9 expand it, you know, it may be possible now. Going down the 10 street didn't seem like a really good option, but if we're at 11 the right size and it works, no reason to change it. But -- 12 MS. ANDERSON: I think there's some options there, 13 some possibilities. But we're just kind of going to be 14 looking and watching and making some evaluations in the 15 coming year, with your approval, about what the future might 16 look like beyond that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I think it's -- 'cause 18 there was some potential. I don't know if -- I haven't 19 talked to the mayor about it. He may not want to. But -- 20 and also, I believe that's private property over there, a lot 21 of it. So -- but there is some property there, and, you 22 know, it seems like this has been such a big success, if we 23 can build on it, it would be super, good for the whole 24 economy, good for Kerrville, for the county. So, I'll move 25 approval of the -- another year with Market Days. 11-26-12 18 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 4 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 10 ma'am. We appreciate it. 11 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 5, a 9:15 timed 13 item; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 14 approve use of Flat Rock Park by the Kerrville Public School 15 Foundation for the annual duck race community event. 16 Ms. Henneke? 17 MS. HENNEKE: Good morning, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 19 MS. HENNEKE: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm 20 here -- my name's Lesley Henneke. I am here with the 21 Kerrville Public School Foundation, and actually have the 22 president of the school foundation, Stacy Stavinoha, and she 23 would like to present the reason we're here today. 24 MS. STAVINOHA: Good morning. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 11-26-12 19 1 MS. STAVINOHA: Thank you for allowing us to visit 2 with you about the duck race, which it was nice to see 3 everybody smile when we said that. I am here to ask if we 4 could use Flat Rock Park for our event next April 27th of 5 2013. For the past five years, we have actually held the 6 event at Louise Hays Park. And we did have it reserved for 7 next year, and on November 6th, I received a certified letter 8 from the City that the park would be closed for the River 9 Trail project and utilities that needed to be repaired there, 10 so we -- we're left without a site for our event. And this 11 has been a great event, both for the Kerrville Public School 12 Foundation, which raises money for K.I.S.D., for the students 13 and teachers, for things that are not available through state 14 or local funding. And we try to create an environment for 15 the community to get involved with the schools, and the duck 16 race is a great way to have the community come together and 17 have a wonderful day of events. 18 It's actually free to the public to come to the 19 events, and we have a lot of different fun things that go on 20 for the kids. And then we get the principals involved in a 21 kayak race, which they love, and the coaches, and then, of 22 course, we throw 5,000 rubber ducks into the river, and it's 23 just a lot of fun for everyone, and it gets the community 24 very involved and we're able to raise a lot of money for the 25 students and teachers of K.I.S.D. And so I went down and 11-26-12 20 1 visited Flat Rock Park, and it would actually be a wonderful 2 site for us, and we would love to work with you and be able 3 to host our event for its sixth year at Flat Rock Park. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see a date on here. 5 MS. STAVINOHA: Up at the top, November 6th -- oh, 6 you mean the date of the event? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The date of the event. 8 MS. STAVINOHA: April 27th, 2013. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Are you asking for this for 10 one year? 11 MS. STAVINOHA: We would have to have it for two 12 years, because they said the park would be closed for 18 13 months, which would affect us for two years. And if all goes 14 well, we may decide to keep it there permanently. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's where I was going with 16 that question. 17 MS. STAVINOHA: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Would you consider that, or is 19 that a possibility? 20 MS. STAVINOHA: It is a possibility, because I 21 think the site is possibly better, really, than Louise Hays 22 Park, because it's flat; everything can be just more 23 centrally located, which creates a lot more energy going on 24 there. The only big difference is you do have a lot of 25 visibility off of the bridge at Louise Hays Park versus Flat 11-26-12 21 1 Rock. Did you have a question? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- you know, I think any usage we 3 can get to Flat Rock Park by the citizens of city or the 4 county I think is a wonderful thing, 'cause I think it's 5 terribly under-utilized now. 6 MS. STAVINOHA: I agree. In fact, when I went to 7 visit, I was so surprised at how wonderful the site was. 8 That was the first time I had been there, so -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All the more reason. 10 MS. STAVINOHA: All the more reason. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What would be required from 12 the County to provide what you need? 13 MS. STAVINOHA: Well, in the past with the City, 14 what's been provided is just helping us a little bit on 15 set-up. Electricity is something that we do need down there 16 for the band and for some of the events that go on; we have 17 inflatables. And then security, just, you know, having some 18 people down there just keeping an eye on things. That would 19 be the main things. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, that is yet to be defined, 21 what our obligation or commitment would be? 22 MS. STAVINOHA: Now, I did go to the City Council 23 meeting and visit with them, and they said they were still 24 willing to help us with some of the things that they had 25 helped with before, because in the past, it's kind of been 11-26-12 22 1 that they were a co-sponsor with us. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, this really -- 3 MS. STAVINOHA: Providing those services. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is really a request for a 5 concept, since you don't have the definition -- 6 MS. STAVINOHA: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- of what you need there. 8 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: How the City and the County 10 may work together -- 11 MS. STAVINOHA: Work together. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- on this, and what you need 13 from the County and who's responsible for what. So that's -- 14 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is step one of a 16 multi-step -- 17 MS. STAVINOHA: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- process. 19 MS. STAVINOHA: Because I don't have a definition 20 from the City yet on, is it going to be everything that it 21 was except for the actual park? They were very open to 22 helping us in every way they could, they said. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good -- I like 24 the concept, and I probably -- the next thing, probably, if 25 Jody could give you an agreement that we have with either -- 11-26-12 23 1 is there alcohol served? 2 MS. STAVINOHA: No alcohol. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have any events that are 4 not alcohol out there that use -- I think the chili cook-off, 5 some of these other events, people that use a form -- give 6 you a form of agreement really for kind of what we expect and 7 what -- I mean, I'm just looking to not reinvent the wheel on 8 that. Generally, if there's alcohol, you have to bring your 9 own security, but if there's no alcohol -- maybe the City 10 could -- that would be part of their deal, is they could 11 provide some of the security with some -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some of their -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- policemen. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And then -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what they did for 17 KerrFest. They came out, provided security. I mean, that's 18 something they can do. 19 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that -- 21 MS. STAVINOHA: Well, and part of it was that they 22 were there just for the kids to be able to meet, you know, 23 firemen, policemen, the police dog, and so it -- you know, it 24 worked more than just -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But there's parking issues and 11-26-12 24 1 control. There's a bunch of things yet to be defined. 2 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think it's a good idea, but 4 I think -- I agree, most of the devil's in the details. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree that we can authorize 6 for them to utilize it, and then they can come back with a 7 plan later. You know, give you plenty of time; you need to 8 be back 60 days, or -- 9 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- 45 days prior to the event 11 with a plan. 12 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you looked to see that the park 14 is not booked for that particular date? 15 MS. GRINSTEAD: We have it, and I don't know when 16 the chili cookoff is normally. No one's requested use of it 17 at this point. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Generally, Easter's going to 19 be a little bit earlier than that. 20 MS. STAVINOHA: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Easter? That shouldn't be a 22 conflict. But, you know, that would be the only one I know 23 of offhand, that they do have the chili -- all that stuff 24 every year. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One other question. The -- 11-26-12 25 1 what have you achieved as far as your scholarship funds that 2 you realize out of these things in the past couple years? 3 MS. STAVINOHA: Last year we brought in $70,000 4 from the event, so that was, you know, quite large. Now, our 5 expenses, you know, came off of that. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that was gross. 7 MS. STAVINOHA: That was our gross, that's correct. 8 And we probably netted about $35,000 to $40,000 off of that. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, would this have a 10 potential for your net to increase? As opposed to -- 11 MS. STAVINOHA: Well, we would love for it to. A 12 lot of what that is is our sponsorships initially. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. 14 MS. STAVINOHA: And last year, we did have one 15 sponsor that gave $10,000 up front. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MS. STAVINOHA: That makes a big difference when 18 you're, you know, putting together the funds. And that's the 19 largest way we receive funds, because to adopt a duck is $5. 20 So, the biggest way we get the funds in to begin with is the 21 sponsorship levels. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there an admission -- 23 MS. STAVINOHA: No admission. It's free to the 24 public to come. And the only thing that's charged for once 25 they're down there is food, snow cones, you know, kind of 11-26-12 26 1 thing. Food and beverages. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Generally, we don't -- when we 3 give access for events like this, we don't -- the park is 4 still left open to the public to use as well. That's the 5 reason I was asking. So, if it's free, then if the public 6 wants to walk around -- 7 MS. STAVINOHA: Exactly. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they attended or not, 9 doesn't make any difference. 10 MS. STAVINOHA: Right. And last year, we had 11 approximately 700 people that attended. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Great. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move that we set aside the 14 April 27th, 2013 date for Kerrville Public School Foundation 15 to use Flat Rock Park for their duck -- duck race? 16 MS. STAVINOHA: Duck race. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Duck race, and work out the 18 details at least 60 days prior to the event. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And to come back with the 20 definition of the -- of exactly what's to be done by whom. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that was part of his motion. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Bring back a plan within 24 approximately 60 days. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11-26-12 27 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated. Do we have any further question or discussion on 4 the motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Thank you, ladies. 10 We appreciate it. 11 MS. STAVINOHA: Thank you very much. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6, if we might; to 13 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding the 14 widening of Holloman Road at Goat Creek. Mr. Joe Reeh -- 15 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is here. He asked that this item 17 be placed on the agenda. 18 MR. REEH: Let me get turned on here. Honorable 19 County Judge and Commissioners, I appreciate the opportunity 20 to be in this court. My name is Joe Reeh and I have a house 21 in Wood Trail. I'm going to show a Power Point if I can get 22 this baby to run here. Where's the I.T. guy? There we go, 23 okay. Can y'all see it all right? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11-26-12 28 1 MR. REEH: And I'm going to show the Power Point, 2 then I'm going to give a speech, and at the end I'll be 3 available to catch some flak. I imagine I got to have some 4 broad shoulders in here. Okay. This is a request to widen 5 the -- what the heck is that there? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where's John? 7 MR. REEH: I don't like it. But, anyway, at the 8 intersection of Goat Creek Road, the entrance to Wood Trail 9 Subdivision, okay, there's five -- some more signatures I got 10 Sunday. And one signature in particular, the lady signed it, 11 and she's concerned about safety for school buses trying to 12 pass larger vehicles in this entrance. We're going to 13 address that in a minute. There's six -- sorry about that -- 14 what do they call those little things that you flip up there? 15 It wasn't like that this morning at home, but it's some kind 16 of a -- there's a word for those. What do they call those? 17 They jump on there. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A nuisance. 19 MR. REEH: Yeah, they're a nuisance. There's 65 20 I've got 65 signatures from 41 homes, and -- that have signed 21 petitions. There's 61 -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: How many total homes are there? Do 23 you know? 24 MR. REEH: Approximately 78, to the best of my -- 25 counting them on the Kerr County website. This accounts for 11-26-12 29 1 a little over half of the homes located in the Wood Trails 2 Subdivision. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. REEH: This road is addressing the fact -- I 5 went door-to-door, but I'll address it in a minute. It's 6 barely passable for ordinary passenger vehicles at a slow 7 rate of speed. Larger vehicles do not allow for any cars to 8 come by. With the absence of a street light, issues are 9 compounded at night. This is the -- I don't know if -- can 10 y'all see it? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. REEH: This is the Holloman Road entrance 13 looking from Goat Creek Road. I measured it a couple places, 14 and one time I got 16 feet. I think 18 is closer. But 15 anyway, as you can see, it's narrow. There's a fence on the 16 right. On the left, there's cedar trees. That's the part I 17 think the County ought to see if they can get 20 foot off of. 18 There's houses on the right; there's two houses. They're 19 about 10 foot from that fence. There is an option to get 10 20 foot from the right-hand side, 10 foot from the left. That's 21 a possibility. It goes for 752 feet, okay. Here's an 22 illustration of two pickup trucks. If you'll notice those 23 mirrors, they're almost touching. I had one gentleman that 24 said he's broke his mirrors twice out there at night coming 25 through with another pickup hitting his mirrors. I mean, it 11-26-12 30 1 speaks for itself. That's two pickups, and then again, 2 there's two more. It's an alternate view of two pickups 3 going through -- through the right-of-way. Okay, here's a 4 dump truck going through. They can't get around on either 5 side. School buses, the same width; they can't get around. 6 It makes it impassable till somebody waits on the other end 7 or on Goat Creek Road to go through. If that dump truck were 8 to break down, the engine, it could sit there up to four or 9 five hours until Midway Wrecker came out and released all the 10 air brakes, crawled underneath there and drug it out of the 11 right-of-way. I mean, it's a serious issue. I've run dump 12 trucks all my life, run heavy trucks and school buses. So -- 13 so, anyway... 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the only -- this is the only 15 access into or out of -- 16 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- those homes -- 18 MR. REEH: There is no other -- there is no other 19 access. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the subdivision? 21 MR. REEH: Correct, there's no other ingress or 22 egress here. A school bus cannot enter the road from Goat 23 Creek Road while any other vehicle is present. This exposes 24 the children aboard the bus to a high incidence of a 25 collision, as the buses stop on a blind curve in the road. I 11-26-12 31 1 have a letter from the Ingram School District to back up 2 this, and it says, "Dear Joe" -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in the backup material that we 4 have here. 5 MR. REEH: Yeah. It just says that -- this is from 6 the Director of Transportation. I don't have one here, but 7 it's kind of tiny here. It just says that he's very 8 concerned about the two blind curves, and especially in the 9 dark. They have to sit there in the road, and if somebody 10 comes around those blind curves at 45 miles an hour, that bus 11 is going to get rear-ended. They feel so strongly there -- 12 that's who runs the route, is the Ingram School District -- 13 that he wrote that letter for me, and I appreciate him doing 14 it. I did not -- I was not aware of this until I went down 15 there. I -- I drive school buses; I'm a volunteer bus 16 driver. I've never driven this route, but when I got to 17 thinking about it, it's a serious issue for children. 18 Y'all -- do you'll have any questions? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this a County road? 20 Undoubtedly. 21 MR. REEH: Well, I think so. I mean, there's some 22 debate about that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is a county road, 24 County-maintained. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, it's a County road, so it 11-26-12 32 1 doesn't -- it's doesn't meet county specs. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Road's been there since 1968. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what I say; it's been 5 there. If you were putting in new roads, it wouldn't meet 6 the specs, so it was grandfathered. I mean, it's been there 7 so long -- okay, so that's the reason. 8 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So, it's -- what you're 10 asking for is to bring it toward -- 11 MR. REEH: Right, toward -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- toward county specs now. 13 So -- and what's the distance? And what's -- 14 MR. REEH: It's -- well, I -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You said 750? 16 MR. REEH: 750 feet, approximately, is that 17 right-of-way. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And so have there been 19 incidents -- you've mentioned the mirrors being broken, stuff 20 like that. Has there been any serious events -- 21 MR. REEH: I've talked to a couple homeowners where 22 there were a couple of wrecks in the right-of-way. I do not 23 have dates. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 MR. REEH: But I know there have been a couple of 11-26-12 33 1 wrecks. But, you know, that's what I was told. And then 2 that closes the road completely until the vehicles are pulled 3 out of the right-of-way, so in the meantime, no ambulances 4 can go in and out, no fire trucks. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have any idea from Len 6 Odom of where this would fit in his priority? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whenever he gets through, I 8 have some things. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 10 MR. REEH: That's why I've got my flak jacket on. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's a disadvantage of 12 being impatient. 13 MR. REEH: That's all right, I appreciate the 14 question. Next one is an emergency vehicle safety issue. A 15 disabled vehicle or a collision between two vehicles could 16 prevent access for hours, and if someone was killed in that 17 right-of-way, it could be eight hours. You can't move a 18 vehicle until everything's investigated, so that would 19 completely close the thing down for fire trucks, from 20 anything else. As Holloman Road is the only access, 21 emergency vehicles would be unable to respond to residents 22 during this period of time. I have a letter from Midway 23 Wrecker Service on the next slide kind of backing that up. 24 And it just says -- I can't read it; it's too tiny. It just 25 says that the -- backs up the same thing I told you, that 11-26-12 34 1 they feel we ought to be proactive here instead of reactive, 2 and not wait until somebody gets killed or hurt in this 3 right-of-way and then come down here and get it widened. 4 That's their feeling; it's serious. And any questions on 5 that? Okay. All county roads have a minimum width of 60 6 feet; is that correct? At this time? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Present day, yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any new roads. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: New roads, that's the 10 right-of-way. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very few roads have it. 12 MR. REEH: City of Kerrville fire lines, I think, 13 that's around the apartment houses have a 24 -- 24-foot 14 width, and we're way below that. And I know there is going 15 to -- there's going to be discussion about eminent domain 16 coming up, but we have the precedent where a county condemned 17 a 10-foot right-of-way on Lane Valley. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As it turned out, that did not go 20 forward. 21 MR. REEH: Okay. It was headed that way, I guess, 22 in the newspaper. So, the County has a decision to make. 23 They have authority to widen the road; is that correct? I 24 think you're the only ones that can widen it. Okay, this 25 road widens after 752 feet. This is the way it looks when 11-26-12 35 1 you're headed up the hill off of Goat Creek Road. There's 2 the new pavement that they did a great job on; finished that 3 a couple of weeks ago, the County. They paved that -- that 4 from there all the way up to the top of the hill. The County 5 did a great job on it. It widened from 18 to 50 feet, okay. 6 Now, here's looking downhill. This is a long downhill run, 7 and you can see how wide it is where that fence is. Okay. 8 They come down that hill about 50, and I've been caught in 9 there more than once, so I just stop and they come by me. No 10 telling how fast they're going. And, basically, as you can 11 see, it's a hazard, particularly at night. I mean, it's 50 12 foot wide and it goes to about 18 feet, and -- okay. 13 Estimated costs involved, I had a realtor give me a C.M.A. 14 estimate, and the land's worth 4,600; fence is worth about 15 3,400. Total cost for the -- total estimate of the value of 16 that 20-foot strip would be about $8,000 dollars. That's a 17 letter from Realty Executives, Rob Irvin. He's president of 18 Kerrville Board of Realtors. Anybody have a question? Okay, 19 I think that's it on that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 21 questions at this time for Mr. Reeh? 22 MR. REEH: Well, I want to -- I've got some more 23 stuff. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 25 MR. REEH: Anyway, my name is Joe Reeh, and I own a 11-26-12 36 1 house out there. Again, this is the only entrance and exit 2 in that subdivision. I've been driving on this for about six 3 years, this road. I went door-to-door, spent some 4 considerable time here trying to get signatures, and I've got 5 approximately 67 signatures, 41 houses -- homes out of 78 6 homes, so I'm a little over half. There are about 41 homes 7 that have signed up, so a lot of folks are on board here. A 8 lot of people don't live here. These are vacation homes that 9 they've got in that subdivision; they live in Houston, so I 10 couldn't get -- I went walking two Sunday afternoons, so this 11 is the best I could get. I've heard stories of near 12 accidents from many people. One homeowner, I told you 13 they -- he had his mirrors broken twice on his pickup. A 14 larger vehicle such as a school bus does not have enough room 15 to pass another vehicle. At night, it's so bad -- there's no 16 street lights. I pull over before I go through the 17 right-of-way and wait till another vehicle comes through, 18 because you just got to. There's not enough room. 19 I hold a school bus driver's license; I've been 20 driving buses for over 20 years. Currently, I'm a volunteer 21 bus driver. My primary concern when I have children on board 22 is their safety. This is a dangerous entrance. Every 23 morning the bus has to wait in the traffic lane. Sooner or 24 later, this bus could get rear-ended. I also talked to the 25 Kerrville Fire Marshal; I did not get a letter. And there's 11-26-12 37 1 another issue here besides people getting hurt on the 2 right-of-way, kids getting hurt. There's a fire. If we had 3 a -- I'm going to be moving out there shortly; I just 4 finished my house. A fire out there like they did at 5 Mountain Home when the cedars caught fire, where would people 6 go? They couldn't get out. There's 78 houses out there, so 7 this is very important right there, just the issue of -- of 8 fire trucks getting in and out. I feel the cost of clearing 9 the road should be minimal with county crews cutting down the 10 trees. I don't think we need it paved till later. If we had 11 20 feet to drive on -- paved, unpaved, doesn't matter -- we 12 could pull over. We don't need it paved at this time, but we 13 just need 20 feet to get over. 14 Yes, I am concerned about the landowner who is here 15 that has to give up the 20-foot strip. But I've had this 16 happen to me personally by the City of Kerrville, and I 17 voluntarily gave up about 10 foot of land over on G Street to 18 the City without any cost, because I felt it's my civic duty 19 to the people that drive roads. After hearing the safety 20 issues involved and the number of people wanting it widened, 21 I can't -- I can't see any landowner in Kerr County not 22 wanting to convey 20 feet, especially if they're getting paid 23 for it. It's time to widen this entrance. From the 24 beginning of the subdivision it has been this narrow, and it 25 should not have been allowed to happen, but it did. I feel 11-26-12 38 1 it's so important for the safety of the children who travel 2 this entrance, and adults, particularly me and my wife, 3 everybody else that lives out there, that I will personally 4 donate $8,000 to the County when this road gets widened. 5 That's the cost of the land. 6 The reason I'm doing that is I know there's a 7 shortage of funds everywhere, including this county, and I 8 figure this way I'm covering the land. It's a win-win 9 situation. You got the county crews. And if we can't do 10 that, my son and I are going to go out there, take a chainsaw 11 and cut the trees down. But I don't believe it's going to 12 involve much cost to the county. Please vote to widen this 13 entrance. If it doesn't get done, it probably never will get 14 done for a long time. I feel this is the last chance it's 15 going to get widened. It's been brought up before. I don't 16 believe it's ever been voted on, Bruce, has it? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not to my knowledge. 18 MR. REEH: It's been talked about. But the thing 19 about this -- and I appreciate you letting me come here. 20 This is a democratic process, and you guys vote on it. If 21 you vote it down, I'll drive the road like it is. I have to. 22 But if you vote to widen it, I would certainly appreciate 23 that, and the school children would certainly appreciate it. 24 And that's all I've got to talk about. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11-26-12 39 1 MR. REEH: I'm ready for questions from anybody. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 3 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court first have 5 any questions of Mr. Reeh? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. We've been over this so 7 many times, I -- I can recite it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Verbatim. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's in Precinct 4, 11 Commissioner Oehler, so I'm going to give you the first shot 12 from this point. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I've been down this 14 road. This is the third -- there have been three owners 15 there since I started being a commissioner in 1991. All 16 three landowners, I have asked if they would be willing to 17 sell or donate. The answer every time is no, and so, you 18 know, that's the only way that I really know. There's only 19 one other way to do it, and that's condemn it, and we have 20 never done that before on something like this. We do it on 21 things that general -- that benefit a large number of the 22 public, like Spur 98 was one that we -- when TexDOT proposed 23 the new bridge, we got 6 acres of land from, I think, 35 24 different landowners there, and they're still mad about that. 25 I mean, it was -- that was a large thing to benefit a lot of 11-26-12 40 1 people. Only one other time I was involved in any 2 condemnation, and in almost 14 years, is a small piece of 3 land that wasn't as big as this table right here, to put in 4 Indian Creek bridge. And I don't know that -- you know, if 5 the landowner's not willing to sell or give, I'm not willing 6 to condemn someone's property. That's just the long and 7 short of it. 8 This thing has been in existence. Joe lives 9 behind -- his place is behind Wood Trails, and the only 10 reason he has access to that property is because of Wood 11 Trails. He's not a member of the homeowners; he's not part 12 of that subdivision. I have talked to Mrs. Bauer. Buster 13 has talked to Mrs. Bauer, very nice lady that lives on this 14 property. She's here today. If she's willing to give it up, 15 I will have no problem getting Road and Bridge to build a 16 road. Len has said that wouldn't be a problem at all, but 17 the land acquisition is the key. And as far as condemnation 18 goes, you count me out. I think we set a precedent on that. 19 I can show you a lot of other places -- Bear Creek Road is 20 one. It's as narrow or narrower than what you're talking 21 about, and there are lots of people that travel Bear Creek 22 Road and come across the river and go to Arcadia Loop. You 23 saw it the other day; same situation. We've got them all 24 over the county. It's not just -- this is not just an 25 isolated place, one-time deal. So that's what I've got to 11-26-12 41 1 say about it. You can ask Mrs. Bauer if she's willing to 2 sell or donate, and that -- far as I'm concerned, that's the 3 key to the whole thing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. I've 5 talked to Mr. Reeh several times about this, and the issue on 6 the condemnation that you mentioned about Lazy Valley -- 7 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- is a different situation. 9 We're talking about .06 acres for widening of a bridge that's 10 a TexDOT project. And as it turns out, once I finally was 11 able to visit with Mr. Lich personally, he understood the -- 12 the issue, and we were able to resolve that without any 13 condemnation. Now, I think the -- I've worked, since I've 14 been a commissioner, on lots of roads similar to this. 15 MR. REEH: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the standard policy that I 17 think the Court's followed, and certainly that I've worked 18 with Road and Bridge on, is that if someone will donate the 19 land, the County will pay for a new fence along that 20 property, you know, at a -- basically the same type that's 21 there right now. And then, of course, the cost of the road 22 will be taken by the County. And that's kind of -- I'm like 23 Bruce; that's kind of where I am on this one. If we can -- 24 you know, if the property owner -- Ms. Bauer, I believe, is 25 her name -- will donate some property, I think the County 11-26-12 42 1 will then pay the funds to -- 2 MR. REEH: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- put a new fence up and, you 4 know, clear the right-of-way and all that. But it's -- 5 that's kind of where it is. The precedent of us going in and 6 doing this is huge. It would be -- the County couldn't -- 7 you know, we'd be in condemnation lawsuits from now till 8 eternity, because virtually -- I don't know how many. 9 There's hundreds of situations like this in the county, and 10 they're unfortunate. We have rules now that prevent that 11 from happening, but going back and fixing them, we just try 12 to work with the property owner best we can, and fix them one 13 at a time. 14 MR. REEH: I see. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have a question, not of you, 16 but just policy. Set aside condemnation for a minute; that 17 seems to be an issue. But back to my question a while ago, 18 just in a priority of things to be done on -- on conditions 19 like this throughout the county. There may be others with 20 limited funds that require more so than that; I don't know. 21 So, how do you establish -- how do you establish a priority 22 on how to address these things? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't. Long as it 24 includes condemnation. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Len probably ought to be here 11-26-12 43 1 to discuss it. Are there other places that have more severe 2 requirements or issues and potential danger to children and 3 other things? And emergency -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's talk about the children 5 a minute. In this particular situation -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm -- I don't want to get 7 down to details. The first question is, do we have any 8 organized way of looking at what the priorities are? You 9 know, this is an important one, but there may be a bunch. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're all over the county. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the priority is that 12 generally there's someone that brings it up. "Hey, there's a 13 real problem here." This is how I've handled it in my 14 precinct. Then we look at the -- or we know the situation 15 just from being a commissioner and driving most of the roads 16 in our precincts; we know where they are, and if somebody 17 comes up and, you know, comes to us, and I go to the property 18 owner and say, "Will you give us more right-of-way? We 19 really need something right here; it's a dangerous 20 situation." And if a person says yes, then I've always gone 21 to Len Odom, Road and Bridge, and we've worked it out. It 22 goes through Road and Bridge; they're probably going to have 23 to be involved. They're doing the work. But from a -- you 24 know, I don't have a list. I certainly probably could write 25 one pretty quick from my precinct. Bruce's precinct is too 11-26-12 44 1 big; he'd be writing forever. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got an area where you 3 can't hardly -- you can't do the same thing he's talking 4 about. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I know, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because what's happened over 7 the years, those roads were all just, like, a two-track road 8 originally, and it was basically a ranch road, and all of a 9 sudden they started selling land off back there, and next 10 thing you know, everybody's fence is right up to the edge of 11 the road because they said, "Oh, I'm not giving up any of 12 that, you know, to widen that road. I don't want people in 13 here anyway." 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, if you -- here's my -- 15 here's my issue. If you say yes -- if we say yes to this, 16 okay, then two weeks from now, ten other issues come up. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Slippery slope. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. How do you -- there's 20 got to be -- to me, there's got to be some way to prioritize 21 what you do. I mean, this sounds -- if this is the only one, 22 I'd say yeah, let's go do it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not the only one. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I was being facetious. 25 I don't believe it would be the only one, and there may be 11-26-12 45 1 others that are more dangerous than this. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, that's my issue. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think, you know -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is reacting. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is a lot of 7 reacting, because the situations get -- or change over time. 8 It's not -- you know, the action now is to have our rules in 9 place that don't allow for this to happen again. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, or a prioritization of 11 how we start working on them. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: With the limited funds that we 14 have. And then -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not just limited funds. 16 It's the issue of, is this Court willing to start a -- a 17 regular condemnation process for -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the cost of that. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the issue. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I started to say set aside 22 condemnation for a spell. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't do it in this 24 situation. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11-26-12 46 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. But there's -- 2 there's a lot of things that don't require condemnation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That require improvements and 5 safety, and then there's another group that have condemnation 6 associated with it. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But in my precinct, 9 I've worked with them -- I don't know, we've probably done, I 10 don't know, one every couple years where we've worked on one 11 of them. I'm guessing kind of average, not a huge number, 12 but we've -- we've done quite a few. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You just did one last year. 14 Wasn't it on Lane Valley, Lazy Valley, one of those two? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lazy Valley a couple years ago. 16 Lane Valley, we're still trying to work with some of the 17 property owners. Lazy Valley, we've done other ones; done 18 them on Stoneleigh. We've done quite a few. Hermann Sons, 19 we just did one. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm more than willing to take 21 care of it with Road and Bridge Department to pay for the 22 widening and do the work. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: With the funds that he has? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With the funds that he has. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Back to priorities. 11-26-12 47 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same way, he'd be more than 2 happy to widen that road and pay for it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What Len will generally do, he 4 has a schedule for all roads, and he'll just work this into 5 that schedule for that area whenever we have one of these 6 come up. But, I mean, you know, I don't actively go out and 7 try to get rid of all of them. In my precinct, I work on 8 them slowly and try to pick the worst one. If I don't think 9 it's a problem, I don't even go forward with this. There's 10 some of them that aren't that bad. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I've had a number of participation 12 forms filed with respect to this item, so I want to give 13 these people an opportunity to be heard. The first one is 14 Mr. Mike Andrus, who's indicated he is the president of Wood 15 Trails Property Owners' Association. Mr. Andrus? 16 MR. ANDRUS: Yeah. Thank you, Judge and 17 Commissioners. This particular part of the road is not in 18 our property. It's not part of the Wood Trails, you know, 19 property. But we've visited with Mr. Reeh, and he's come to 20 visit our association at our meetings, and we -- at the 21 first, we said we were going to go in with him and put a 22 little money, you know, into helping with the project. We 23 feel it needs to be widened, you know, because it affects all 24 of our homeowners in the thing. But we're also good 25 neighbors of Mrs. Bauer, so our stand is that we don't want 11-26-12 48 1 to force Ms. Bauer to lose her land that she doesn't want to 2 lose. So, we haven't had any issues going in and out that 3 I'm aware of, but there are the possibilities, because it is 4 not wide enough for a school bus and another vehicle to pass, 5 or an emergency vehicle. But our standpoint is that we -- as 6 a board and the property owners' association, we do not want 7 to force this on Mrs. Bauer to give up her property. If she 8 wishes to give it up, well, that's another situation. So, 9 that's our standpoint. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 11 MR. ANDRUS: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got another participation form 13 from Candace Dinsmore. 14 MS. DINSMORE: Hi. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Dinsmore? 16 MS. DINSMORE: Hi. Thank you, Judge and 17 Commissioners. I am actually -- me and my husband own the 18 property on the corner of Holloman and Goat Creek where you 19 see that privacy fence. We've lived there since June of 20 2009. My children ride the Ingram bus, and we've never had 21 one issue. I have no concerns. Yes, I have major concerns 22 with the speed that the drivers take on this road, which I 23 think can incur these problems more likely than having a 24 truck break down. We were approached by Mr. Reeh and offered 25 to purchase our land months ago because he wanted to drive 11-26-12 49 1 his trucks up the hill, and that was his concern. He wanted 2 it wide enough. It was hard for him to bring his big rigs up 3 the hill. We have -- the neighbors behind us both have two 4 big 18-wheeler trucks, and they have no problem getting in 5 and out. Yes, it is a small road. We had the County come 6 out and we put up that privacy fence when we purchased the 7 land. They measured. Road and Bridge said it was right 8 where we were at, because we wanted to protect our children 9 from the road. Like you stated, there are many, many other 10 roads with problems. I don't feel that it would be right for 11 Mr. Bauer -- Mrs. Bauer to lose her property, nor us losing 12 any of our property, 'cause if you saw where that fence is, 13 we park our car right next to that fence, and my children 14 play in the yard right next to this fence. So, if anything, 15 I think what needs to happen, the speed of the vehicles on 16 that road needs to be controlled much better. We have made 17 numerous calls on numerous drivers, and lost two very 18 valuable pets. So that's -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 20 MS. DINSMORE: -- really all I have. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Gary Chapman? 22 MR. CHAPMAN: Good morning. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning. 25 MR. CHAPMAN: Well, I listed my reason for wanting 11-26-12 50 1 to speak on this as being against the widening of the road. 2 That's not exactly true. I'm not against the widening of 3 that road out there, if it can be done in a manner that 4 everybody would be happy. And I'm also not here to defend 5 Ms. Bauer. She is a friend, but that's not my purpose for 6 being here. I am opposed to any condemnation proceedings 7 that might be involved in issues like this, for all the 8 issues -- the reasons that y'all already spoke of. My main 9 issue with this is Mr. Reeh has kind of -- in my opinion, has 10 kind of overdramatized this issue, the whole deal on that 11 road out there. I've lived there since 1983, and I was -- as 12 a patrol deputy, I patrolled that area prior to that in the 13 '70's, and I don't know any time that that road has ever been 14 closed due to an accident, unless it was on Goat Creek Road 15 and somebody couldn't negotiate that S curve. And sometimes 16 that's an issue, and it's a problem to get out when you have 17 an accident being worked right there in the intersection on 18 Goat Creek. So, I don't know of any issues where that road 19 has ever been closed for that -- for a broken down vehicle or 20 anything else. I could be wrong, but I don't know of it, and 21 I don't believe it has happened. We're more likely to be cut 22 off in there from high water than anything else, has been my 23 experience. We've never had an issue with fire trucks, 24 ambulances, or anything else being unable to get into the 25 place. I have met trucks, school buses and other big rigs on 11-26-12 51 1 that road, and it is tight. And there is room to pass a 2 truck on that road if that truck is not sitting right in the 3 middle of that road like depicted on that picture. There is 4 room to move over, and you can pass. I've pulled over and 5 stopped to let a big rig get by. It's not a big deal. I 6 don't have to run through there at 70 miles an hour going to 7 my house. It's -- it just -- speed is an issue -- could be 8 an issue. But -- and I've never lost a mirror with anybody. 9 I've got wide mirrors on my pickup too, on both pickups. 10 And, of course, I do pull them in now just to be safe, 'cause 11 I've met some of these people out here on the 60-foot 12 highway, and I dodge them out there too. (Laughter.) So, I 13 just -- I just believe the whole issue is a little bit blown 14 out of proportion. There is an issue of safety, but there's 15 also a remedy for that, and it's called common sense and 16 being careful. You know, the road's narrow. Why not slow 17 down and take it easy? I know you can't idiot-proof 18 everything; there's going to be some idiots that you're going 19 to meet out there that will run you through a fence. That 20 can happen. May happen today. But far as I know, the road 21 has not been blocked from any of these issues. And I'm as 22 afraid of fire and not having proper help as anybody else, 23 but I don't believe that it's something that we need to go to 24 extremes to condemn. I don't think we're at that level. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 11-26-12 52 1 MR. CHAPMAN: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the audience 3 that wishes to be heard with respect to this particular item? 4 Ms. Bauer, is there anything you wish to offer? 5 MS. BAUER: Not really. I just appreciate all the 6 comments. There have been numerous accidents, but that was 7 people on Goat Creek Road running through my fence. But that 8 didn't have anything to do with the narrow road, you know. 9 And I feel like he knew how wide the road was when he 10 purchased the property, and -- you know. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 12 MR. REEH: Can I ask her a question, or is it 13 outlawed? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Only if she wants to respond. 15 MR. REEH: Would you be willing to give the County 16 20 feet if you get paid? 17 MS. BAUER: No, not really. 18 MR. REEH: What's your reason, though? Look how 19 many people live out there. 20 MS. BAUER: Well, my reason wouldn't matter. I 21 just don't want to give up my property. I stood on my feet 22 teaching school to save my money and buy that piece of 23 property, and I just feel like -- 24 MR. REEH: But you didn't buy it for -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Reeh, that's probably not 11-26-12 53 1 appropriate. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Reeh? 3 MR. REEH: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: She's responded. 5 MS. BAUER: I think your appraisal was from 2010. 6 And, you know, when you buy something, it's as much a heart 7 issue that you love your place. 8 MR. REEH: Right. 9 MS. BAUER: As the dollar sign. So -- 10 MR. REEH: If you were a schoolteacher, aren't you 11 concerned about all those kids on this bus? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Reeh -- 13 MS. BAUER: Most definitely, but -- 14 MR. REEH: That's my issue. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Reeh? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's enough, Mr. Reeh. 17 MR. REEH: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you wish to -- 19 MR. REEH: No, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- advise the Court in connection 21 with this issue? 22 MR. REEH: No. Do the best you can. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Does any member of the 24 Court have a motion that they wish to offer in connection 25 with this item? Hearing none, we will move forward and go to 11-26-12 54 1 our 9:30 timed item, Item Number 9, to consider, discuss, and 2 take appropriate action on War Memorial Committee's 3 recommended requirements for individuals to be included on 4 the Kerr County War Memorial. As some of you may recall, 5 sometime back, the issue of expansion of the war memorial was 6 before the Court, and a committee was appointed, and they've 7 done their work. The committee was comprised of -- good 8 gosh, I'm drawing a blank now -- Joe Herring, Jr.; he was the 9 chairman. Mike Bowlin, who's on the -- well, the -- 10 MR. BOWLIN: The history center. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the history center. He 12 actually runs that thing over there. 13 MR. BOWLIN: No, no, no, no. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to say you do. Kathie 15 Walker, who's out at Schreiner and who's heavily involved in 16 these things. And they -- they had the opportunity to gather 17 up with various stakeholder groups of the veterans 18 organizations, and through some work that they did, they've 19 come up with a recommendation, which was the charge of that 20 committee, to make a recommendation to this Court as to the 21 criteria to be used for inclusion on the Kerr County War 22 Memorial of individuals, and they have proposed to us their 23 recommendation. The circumstances of the death of the 24 individual: The individual may be memorialized if the person 25 died while serving as a member of the U.S. armed forces while 11-26-12 55 1 in a war zone, or as the result of hostile fire or terrorist 2 activity. A civilian may be memorialized if killed while 3 employed in a war zone with a company who was supporting U.S. 4 combat operation. 5 The requirements of the individual: There first 6 must be established that the deceased was a full-time 7 resident of Kerr County for a minimum of six months during a 8 period of his or her life. In addition to that, and after 9 first establishing that, the recommendation is they must meet 10 at least two of the following requirements: One, born in 11 Kerr County. Two, buried in Kerr County. Three, attended 12 not less than four years in primary Kerr County schools, or a 13 -- or have a certificate for home-schooling in Kerr County. 14 Four, graduated high school in Kerr County. Five, entered 15 service from Kerr County. Six, official military home of 16 record in Kerr County. Seven, official notice of death from 17 U.S. military notifying next of kin, be that parent, legal 18 guardian, or spouse, residing in Kerr County. Eight, listed 19 in a Kerr County newspaper as a resident of Kerr County. 20 Nine, listed as a member in a Kerr County church. Ten, 21 married to a spouse from Kerr County at time of death. Those 22 -- those are the recommendations of the committee. 23 We have a number of the stakeholders and members of 24 the committee here today. I'd like to give anybody an 25 opportunity to be heard with regard to these items. Is there 11-26-12 56 1 any member of the audience that wishes to be heard on this 2 item as presented to the Court? Yes, sir? Mr. Cantrell, 3 come forward; give us your name and address and tell us about 4 your affiliation. 5 MR. CANTRELL: Bill Cantrell, 428 Saddle Club Drive 6 in Kerrville. I'm the commander of the local Kerrville 7 AMVETS post, and what I have to say is very brief. As you 8 see, I was one of the members on that -- that prepared this. 9 The whole purpose -- you used the term yourself, Judge, 10 "inclusion." That's what we wanted, was inclusion, rather 11 than exclusion. Your old rule, home of record only, that was 12 the one rule. That turns out to be a rule of exclusion. We 13 named our post -- our AMVETS post for Corporal Jacob C. 14 Leicht, who was home-schooled here in Kerr County, and he was 15 the 1,000th casualty of the war in Afghanistan, Marine Corps. 16 So, under that one rule of home of record, he would be 17 excluded. There are a list of about four or five others that 18 would be excluded under that rule. I gave the example on 19 home of record, and that was -- I took a young fellow from 20 Chicago, never left Illinois, but he met a girl from 21 Kerrville and married, went to service. He thought when he 22 got out of the service, he'd come back to Kerrville where she 23 was from, and so he listed Kerrville as his home of record. 24 But he was killed in Iraq or Afghanistan or what-have-you. 25 Never set foot in Kerr County, but he would be included on 11-26-12 57 1 that. Nothing -- nothing against that, but I just think it's 2 smart for us to go towards the word "inclusion," and I think 3 what we put out there will work to that goal. Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 5 MR. ECKSTEIN: I'm Commander Sherrell Eckstein of 6 the American Legion Post 13 of Kerrville. We're the oldest 7 veterans organization of Kerr County. We are with AMVETS 8 1000 100 percent, and we'd recommend this proposal that we 9 put up for you to consider. I think it's a very, very good 10 recommendation. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Yes, sir? 12 MR. RUSSELL: Jerry Russell from Kerrville here. I 13 live at Trail Ridge -- 6 Trail Ridge Drive. I'm past 14 commander of the American Legion Post 208. Presently, I'm 15 the first vice president of that club, and we have total 16 support for all of our members to go forward with this, and 17 hopefully it will be done today. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Yes, sir? 19 MR. BACON: My name is Bill Bacon. I'm with the 20 Military Order of the Purple Heart, Chapter 814, here in Kerr 21 County, and I'd like to say we give 100 percent support to 22 this recommendation. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else? Well, let 24 me throw a monkey wrench in the works. Item 8, listed in a 25 Kerr County newspaper as a resident of Kerr County. Is that 11-26-12 58 1 not duplicitous or superfluous? And here's my thinking. 2 Obits are published as submitted, and there's no -- there's 3 no necessity for them being checked for accuracy. I think -- 4 I think the other items are going to, in essence, take care 5 of that. And just a newspaper listing, for example, in an 6 obit, if, in fact, that's the case, there's going to be one 7 or two or more listed. And I think that particular item, 8 just being listed in a newspaper as a resident, is -- is 9 probably superfluous or duplicitous, and if the conditions 10 truly exist, they're going to be borne out otherwise. It's 11 somewhat minor. Yes, ma'am? 12 MS. DEATON: Just a point of that. I just was 13 arranging my funeral, went to the funeral home, gave them 14 some facts that they're going to put in the newspaper. They 15 didn't ask me anything. I could have lied; I could have said 16 anything. So, what's in the newspaper, surely some of you -- 17 I've been reading obituaries forever, and you find things 18 that are wrong. So, I think it's a point that we need to 19 think about. It's not always right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's good when we can read the 21 obituaries frequently, isn't it, Ms. Deaton? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, my only comment on 23 that -- and when I read this list, I didn't -- I thought 24 about obituaries, but I also thought of other listings. I 25 thought it was very broad, and it's almost like saying you 11-26-12 59 1 had somebody who was listed as a -- you know, at a track meet 2 as a resident of Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I thought this was 5 another documentation of someone living -- the person still 6 has to be a resident for six months, and this is just a -- 7 another item that verifies that. I mean, it doesn't make 8 that much difference. I mean, I'm not going to have 9 heartburn one way or the other if that item is there or not. 10 I just didn't read it as obit only; I read it as any listing 11 in the paper. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, when you look at -- when you 13 look at the qualifying -- the primary qualifying item, 14 residency for a period of time, that, again, does demonstrate 15 that it's superfluous, duplicitous with -- yeah, okay. 16 Mr. Cantrell? 17 MR. CANTRELL: Yes. I wanted to point out, four of 18 the six members of the committee that prepared that are 19 sitting here right now. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. CANTRELL: And when we presented this to the 22 volunteer committee, we pointed out to them that we, 23 ourselves, the ones that prepared this, also had some 24 problems with that Number 8, and another. And we decided -- 25 and in the committee meeting, decided to go ahead and put it 11-26-12 60 1 forward to you, knowing that you then could use your best 2 judgment. This is not a demand that you accept that. And 3 the point -- remember, it was a choice of two of those ten. 4 So, it could be two of those six. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned that the -- that 6 the group that really worked to put this recommendation 7 together had difficulty with that item and one other, I 8 believe? 9 MR. CANTRELL: And we -- it came down to a vote 10 among us, and we -- the vote said keep it in there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And the other item that -- 12 that there was some consternation about? 13 MR. CANTRELL: Nine. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Number 9, listed as a member in a 15 Kerr County church? 16 MR. CANTRELL: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the issue with Number 9 19 would be the fact that someone could have been a member of -- 20 and moved a long time ago, or -- but still it wouldn't have 21 met the criteria of being here six months? Is that -- was 22 that the issue with that one? 23 MR. CANTRELL: Different ones had different issues 24 on that. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. 11-26-12 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Ms. Deaton had some -- had 2 some input, apparently, and she wants to let us know. 3 MS. DEATON: I was the one that didn't agree with 4 that one, for the fact I've been here since '77. I have seen 5 churches come and go. I've seen churches come in from out of 6 state, be here for three or four months, and they're gone. 7 They're not citizens of Kerr County that long. Now, I'm not 8 talking about well-established, but I don't -- if y'all will 9 just think about how many churches have just been here for a 10 while, and then they're gone. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Deaton. 12 MS. DEATON: I'm just like -- 13 MR. BOWLIN: She is the original member of the 14 Desert Storm Support Group that got the original memorial 15 deal. 16 MS. DEATON: That raised the money and everything. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Deaton. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'll follow up on that 19 point a little bit on nine. How do you get that information 20 that you're a member of a church? I mean, if it's a church 21 that he's -- or it's very difficult to determine. I mean, 22 some churches, obviously, have memberships that may go back 23 in history for a long time, but others just may not keep 24 records like that. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they leave -- 11-26-12 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if the church leaves or 2 something. So, to me, that's more -- or harder to verify, 3 and less, you know, than eight, to me. But, again, you know, 4 I'm going to defer on most of this to the vets. I'm not a 5 veteran. You all, I think, have a far better feel for what 6 is appropriate here than I do, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. I'm the 8 same way. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bacon? 10 MR. BACON: Yes, sir. I'd like to say first, you 11 all make the decision on who goes onto the memorial, and we 12 would -- we would prefer that you err in favor of the -- the 13 veteran, okay? These are options. Number one, the person 14 must have resided in Kerr County at some point in their life. 15 Now, to follow -- I'm sure that you will get an application 16 to put their name on, and at that point, that person making 17 application -- that family member will say that this person 18 was a -- a citizen and -- and was a member of this church, 19 and which would make it very easy to call that church and 20 say, "Was this veteran a member of your church?" Yes, he 21 was. Okay, that's one of two. Was he born in Kerr County? 22 Yes, he was. Done. Okay? So, the ten items are just 23 qualifiers. Err in favor of the veteran. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a question just to the 25 veterans. Is there any -- was there any discussion about 11-26-12 63 1 only being listed on one memorial? Or does that make a 2 difference? I mean, could you be listed on a memorial in 3 Kendall County and Kerr County and Gillespie County, the same 4 individual? Or -- I mean, 'cause under the criteria, you 5 pretty easily could, and is that okay? Or is that -- you 6 know, is it more something that should be just one -- or did 7 you even discuss that? 8 MR. BOWLIN: We have three names on the memorial as 9 is that are listed on other memorials. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. BOWLIN: Across the state of Texas. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that answers that 13 question. My last question, I think, is do y'all recommend 14 this go kind of from a date forward, or back to some date in 15 the past? 16 MR. BACON: Yes, sir, we agree on 1856. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it goes back to 1856, anyone 18 that qualifies, so we may add people that were under -- 19 whether Vietnam, World War I, World War II, Korea? 20 MR. BACON: Primarily, we have been told that the 21 Civil War veterans that died from this county -- 1856 was the 22 year that this county was organized, I believe, and so that's 23 when it starts, and the Civil War veterans that were excluded 24 from the current memorial will then be eligible for addition 25 to the memorial. 11-26-12 64 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Eckstein? 2 MR. ECKSTEIN: I am the chaplain of the Sons of 3 Confederate Veterans also here, and we got a recommendation 4 of our meeting, and we would meet here the third Thursday at 5 the Inn of the Hills, and we are of Kerr County and Gillespie 6 County. And they highly recommended to include the Civil 7 War, and that's why we went back to 1856, the founding of our 8 county, which we have some very famous heroes here, such as 9 Joseph A. Tivy. We recommend it. Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Okay. Well, let's see 11 where this goes. Gentlemen? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I make a motion to 13 approve the recommendation as listed, and go back to 1856. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see any reason not 17 to. I do agree with the inclusion rather than exclusion. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess only -- a question on 20 that. How is it paid for? I mean, does the County just 21 pay -- do we have a line item? I don't know that we've added 22 for -- how do we get the -- I know there's a fund or money 23 that's been raised to add the granite, but how about the 24 engraving? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: There's adequate -- there is 11-26-12 65 1 adequate funding in that account to be used for the engraving 2 of new conflicts and new names. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: There's adequate funds there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And should we run short, I'll bet a 7 dollar to a doughnut hole, they can be raised in less than 30 8 minutes. 9 MS. DEATON: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's just like when a call went 11 out before; boom, here it appeared. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? Further question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Thank you, 20 gentlemen. We appreciate your hard work. 21 (Applause.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we've got the committee to go 23 forward under the second charge to the committee -- Mike, you 24 guys thought you were through; you're not -- to receive 25 applications, and to vet those applications to see if they 11-26-12 66 1 comply with the criteria as adopted. And when you have names 2 to bring to this Court for recommendation for inclusion, 3 bring them forward. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that, I believe there 5 are some slabs of granite or marble -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- sitting in Georgia, I 8 believe. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: They're in Georgia, that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know we were trying to 11 get the list of the names before we had them engraved. It 12 would be a whole lot more cost-effective that way, or easier 13 to have it done there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Better job too, yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I'm trying to go -- 16 is there a date that we could try to have this so we can, you 17 know, let the public know that we're going to have that new 18 memorial up by the end of 2013? By the -- July 4th? I mean, 19 just sometime in the future as to how long this may take to 20 vet some of these? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mike, why don't -- why don't you 22 have your committee and its members get with Jody and come up 23 with a time frame for veterans groups or other interested 24 individuals to submit those applications? So that there's 25 going to have to be some that will be added later locally 11-26-12 67 1 that -- you know, we know that, but let's get as much done as 2 we can on setting a deadline for that. Holidays is not 3 generally a good time to be trying to put people under 4 deadline; they got a lot of other stuff they got going on. 5 But these veterans organizations have been very, very 6 responsive. When you give them a deadline, they respond, 7 'cause they're used to working with deadlines. Sometimes 8 they think they're impossible, but they make them every time, 9 amazingly. So, we'll get that established, and -- and then 10 we'll come back and let you know when that time frame is, so 11 that there can be an expectation of hopefully when these new 12 panels can be installed. Okay? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's see where we are here. 15 Let's go to Item 7; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 16 action to reappoint Donald Oehler and Cheryl Thompson to the 17 Kerr County Emergency Services District Number 1 Board of 18 Commissioners for a two-year term. Commissioner Oehler? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we got one sitting 20 right here. I guess you're willing to do it again? 21 MS. THOMPSON: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, these are not easy 23 to come by sometimes. Thank you for your service. And I 24 move to approve the agenda item to reappoint the two members, 25 Donald Oehler and Cheryl Thompson, to ESD Number 1 for a 11-26-12 68 1 two-year term. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 5 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 8; to 10 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint 11 Jeannie Schladoer and Perin Wells to the Kerr County 12 Emergency Services District Number 2 Board of Commissioners 13 for a two-year term. Commissioner Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval of the agenda 15 item. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Item 10; consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with 25 Court-Appointed Special Advocates, that being CASA 11-26-12 69 1 organization, and allow the County Judge to sign same. This 2 is a rollover contract from year to year, so it's our format. 3 And I assume the County Attorney's taken a look at it? 4 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. Same as years past, and 5 nothing's changed. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 10 raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 15 Item 11; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 16 regarding the Friends of Kerr County Historical Commission 17 funds held in trust by Kerr County, including refund of funds 18 to the Friends of Kerr County Historical Commission, or 19 donation of funds by Friends of Kerr County Historical 20 Commission to Kerr County for the purpose of improvements at 21 the Schreiner University property where Union Church is 22 located. 23 AUDIENCE: Judge, would you call 12 too, please? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Boy, that's pretty explicit, 25 isn't it? 11-26-12 70 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 12 is to consider, 2 discuss, and take appropriate action to expend funds for the 3 improvement at the Union Church facility. Okay, I'll let you 4 run with both of them wrapped up here. 5 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, gentlemen. By way of 6 background, there's two entities I'll be discussing. You 7 have the Kerr County Historical Commission, which is an arm 8 of the county, essentially a county department, per se. Then 9 you have an entity called the Friends of the Kerr County 10 Historical Commission, which is an independent, stand-alone 11 501(c)(3), or at least is represented to me as an organized 12 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Back in 1999, Kerr County 13 entered into a 25-year lease with Schreiner University to 14 lease the 1 acre of land over there upon which the Union 15 Church sits. That lease expires -- like I said, it's a 25 -- 16 25-year lease, so it expires in 2024. The County owns the 17 church; Schreiner owns the land. As part of that project, I 18 understand there was a considerable amount of funds that were 19 raised to renovate and have the church placed there. 20 Originally, part of the concept plan was to have a 21 gate and a fence erected around there, I think the old fence 22 materials from what used to be the original courthouse. The 23 Friends of the -- Friends group last year, for some reason, 24 took the 11,000-something dollars that they had -- that they 25 were holding in their bank account that they had privately 11-26-12 71 1 raised, and were their private, stand-alone funds, and closed 2 out their bank account and deposited those funds with Kerr 3 County. That has been holding those funds ever since. 4 Really, I don't see any reason why Kerr County would have 5 accepted them; they're not our funds. But that's what 6 happened, and we've been keeping them. We've been keeping 7 them as a separate line item, the Friends of the Kerr 8 County -- so, it being within the control of the 9 Commissioners Court and within our -- our bank account, 10 then, you know, expenditure of those funds, which shouldn't 11 happen -- before they get spent, I think this Commissioners 12 Court should be advised as far as money flowing out of its 13 treasury. The Friends group has wanted to move forward with 14 building a gate and having the fence built, and my advice has 15 been, let's sort out this money issue first, and as far as 16 permission goes. 17 Generally speaking, my general position is Kerr 18 County shouldn't -- should be very careful in expending 19 public funds on improvements on private property. This first 20 came to me when there were discussions about making 21 significant -- using county departments and resources to make 22 significant other expenditures to the land upon which Union 23 Church sits. And the lease says that, you know, there is no 24 carry-over. When the lease expires, you know, we can take 25 our building, but any improvements, you know, revert to 11-26-12 72 1 Schreiner. So, before we spend a lot of money improving 2 Schreiner property, that's an issue that needs to be looked 3 at. We're leasing the land. Under the lease, the lease 4 requires written approval from Schreiner University before 5 making any improvements to the outside of the facility. So, 6 where the issue is now is I believe the Friends of Kerr 7 County want their money back. Ms. Dyke with the Friends of 8 the Kerr County group is here. I also believe Dr. Rector is 9 here to speak on behalf of that group. And it's their money. 10 I don't think we should have accepted it in the first place, 11 but we've kept it separate; we can account for it. Tracy can 12 speak to that. They want their money back. 13 That's fine, but also, before further construction 14 and improvements are made upon that property out there -- I 15 think those will be acceptable, but I did visit with 16 Mr. Jackson, who in his capacity serves as the attorney for 17 Schreiner University. The Friends group has represented they 18 have verbal approval from Schreiner. David's not aware of 19 any actual formal approval, and he suggested maybe a 20 three-party agreement to make sure that us as the tenants, 21 Schreiner as the landlord, and the Friends being the group -- 22 entity with the funds, all are on the same page as to what's 23 going to be built there, so on and so forth. So, the way I 24 put it on the agenda item, I didn't know at the time if the 25 Friends group wanted to donate that money to Kerr County, in 11-26-12 73 1 which case then, you know, Kerr County could seek to make the 2 improvements itself, or if they just wanted their money back. 3 I've been advised that they would like to have their funds 4 back, and I don't see any issue with returning the -- it's a 5 specific amount. It's not the full total in the line item, 6 but it's 11,000 and some-odd dollars that were deposited last 7 year. But I would also say, to move forward before any 8 additional construction is done there, that we need to get 9 some kind of written permission from Schreiner as to what we 10 want to do and, you know, make sure that that's okay with -- 11 with Commissioners Court. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like you need to 13 get written acknowledgments, and also -- or written 14 permission first, but also with the -- the statement saying 15 that that fence to be erected would also be part of the Union 16 Church property. Because you wouldn't want to just move the 17 building off and leave the fence there, because the fence 18 goes with the building. 19 MR. HENNEKE: Well, and that's the greater issue. 20 And I've raised the issue with Mr. Jackson, and he's 21 inquiring with Schreiner. But 12 years is not that far in 22 time. We're already halfway through the lease. And I've 23 asked him and I've asked Schreiner, what happens when the 24 lease expires? I mean, are y'all going to be willing to 25 extend for a long period of time? Is -- do you have other 11-26-12 74 1 plans for that land? Does Kerr County need to find a new 2 home for the Union Church? You know, I think initially 3 they've been approached about donating that 1 acre that the 4 church sits on to the County, and I don't believe Schreiner 5 is interested in that. But, certainly, before we make a lot 6 of -- of investments -- I mean, I guess we could pull the 7 fence out of the ground. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, yeah, you can take the 9 fence out. 10 MR. HENNEKE: If we spend money and make a lot of 11 improvements to that, there is the ultimate question about 12 what happens here in about 10 years when the lease expires, 13 with the investment the County has made to that -- that 14 facility? 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But to Bruce's point, you can 16 put that in the agreement, that the fence could be removed if 17 the church is removed, even though that would be, quote, a 18 permanent part of the improvements, and usually when there 19 are improvements made like that, they belong to the property 20 owner. But special conditions -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you affix them to the 22 property, they can -- if you don't specify otherwise, they 23 become part of -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That fence could be removed. 25 MR. HENNEKE: We'd also need to confirm, though, 11-26-12 75 1 that because the funds would come from the Friends group, 2 which is an independent, stand-alone nonprofit, that they 3 would be donating -- either keeping a claim of ownership, or 4 explicitly donating those improvements to the County, to 5 Schreiner, or -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that has to be a 7 condition. I don't think they can donate them and keep them. 8 I mean, if you donate them, you donate them. 9 MR. HENNEKE: Well, they don't want to donate the 10 funds. They want their money back. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. HENNEKE: They want to be able to go then and 13 make improvements. If they pay for improvements to be made, 14 then we need to just make sure that we understand, you know, 15 from this point who owns those improvements. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. HENNEKE: Like light bulbs or something like 18 that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: First issue being, is the money 20 donated to Kerr County, or does it go back to the firm? 21 That's issue number one. Issue number two or any collateral 22 issues, those are all to be addressed under that so-called 23 three-party agreement as to -- certainly, if the funds are 24 donated to Kerr County, it would be incumbent upon us to say 25 in the event the lease terminates and we remove the building, 11-26-12 76 1 we also have the right to remove the fence that we caused to 2 be placed there with county funds, to avoid the issue of 3 improvements to private property. If there -- if the Friends 4 would want that in their three-party agreement, I would think 5 so, that they could follow the Union Church wherever in the 6 world it may -- it may go from there. 7 MR. HENNEKE: If anywhere, sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But all of those would be handled in 9 that three-party agreement. But the first issue is, do the 10 funds come to Kerr County and become Kerr County funds, or do 11 they go to -- to the Friends? And certainly, that's the 12 Friends' call, 'cause it's their money at this point. 13 MR. HENNEKE: Ms. Dyke wrote me an e-mail over the 14 weekend saying the Friends wanted that money back, and the 15 sum is $11,968.13. But I also understand that they want -- 16 they wanted to continue construction last week, but I asked 17 them to wait until we've discussed this today. But I know 18 they have the money; they're ready to go. But I would 19 suggest that we have all the terms reduced to writing, and 20 make sure that Schreiner is officially on board. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, we've got to be included, 23 but we have the right of possession of property. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Right. Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 11-26-12 77 1 MR. HENNEKE: And presumably, once those 2 improvements are made, they belong to the County, as far as 3 the fence moving forward. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what action do you recommend 5 to the Court today under the circumstances as you've just 6 outlined to us? 7 MR. HENNEKE: My recommendation, Judge, is to, you 8 know, order that the funds be returned to the Friends group, 9 and then direct me to bring back to the Court a -- a short 10 agreement that would be approved by Schreiner and approved by 11 Friends, just kind of memorializing the issues that we've 12 discussed. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I think we need to get 14 prepared to move that building onto county property so that 15 this is put to bed once and for all. I don't like this deal 16 of having -- sitting on leased property, and then you never 17 know what the administration may do in the future. They may 18 have building plans that take in that site where the building 19 is located now. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Lease is up in 10 years? Is 21 that what you said? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 2024. 23 MR. HENNEKE: We could do a lot more with it. 24 There was some long-term -- I know there's been discussion 25 about the interest in paving it, maybe doing some landscaping 11-26-12 78 1 and making it more of a parking area. I think it can be a 2 very pretty site, but before the County invests any 3 significant funds, 10 years isn't a long period of time. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got to have some 5 different agreement than what we have right now. That isn't 6 going to fly. I mean, not in my mind. None of us are going 7 to be here probably when that agreement expires, and without 8 knowledge of what's gone before, you could get yourself in a 9 trap. I don't think Schreiner College is going to be wanting 10 to take advantage of the situation or whatever, but, you 11 know, is it county property, and it's owned by the taxpayers, 12 and I think we need to do what we can to protect it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that the -- you 14 know, my recollection when that location was selected -- and 15 it wasn't a unanimous view of the Court, I can tell you, at 16 the time. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was done because it 19 worked best, and I think access and having it -- the location 20 is what my recollection was a critical component originally. 21 I think Dr. Rector was probably around and involved with all 22 these decisions back then, so -- and it was a good location. 23 We went along with it, even though it wasn't an optimal 24 ownership situation. And another option may be to approach 25 Schreiner -- you know, they don't want to donate the land. 11-26-12 79 1 What is it, about 2 acres? 2 MR. HENNEKE: I think it's 1 acre. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One acre? If they don't want 4 to donate it to the County, maybe they can set a purchase 5 price, and maybe the community can raise the funds so that 6 the County could buy it. You know, I hate to try to -- I 7 hate to move it. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It costs a bunch of money. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You could probably buy an acre 10 for whatever it's going to cost to move the thing -- church. 11 But I think that a permanent solution -- you know, it's never 12 too soon to start looking at a permanent solution for -- you 13 know, for the ownership. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree. The thing 15 is, it's so tall, is going to be the problem with moving it. 16 It's not too big and wide; it's the height. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can we make this a two-step 18 process, though? Step one is what Rob recommended. Step two 19 is over -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Over here to start with. I'm 21 just looking into the future. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, if you -- if you 23 strike a bargain now, it's early terminating the lease. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was kind of what I was 25 thinking. Let's try to solve it while all the parties that 11-26-12 80 1 were kind of around are still active. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the recommendation of the 3 County Attorney's still here. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Active. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still breathing. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The recommendation of the County 7 Attorney is that the Court take action to formally approve 8 the return of money to the Friends, and then direct the 9 County Attorney to work with the other parties involved to 10 try and work out an agreement that's satisfactory to all 11 concerned that achieves those objectives. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the Treasurer have an 13 exact dollar amount? 14 MS. SOLDAN: I don't have an exact dollar amount. 15 I know the original check that they deposited with us, there 16 have been funds spent from that, but I haven't had a chance 17 to check on the figure that the County Attorney was given. 18 MS. HARGIS: It's around 9,200 or something there, 19 because I just figured that out for their budget, so I have 20 it written down. They have spent on that fence about $2,000. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a rush to get this 22 done today? I mean, I really would like to have an exact 23 number in a court order as to how much we're funding. I have 24 no problem with refunding it. Is there -- do you need the 25 money today, or can it wait two weeks? 11-26-12 81 1 MS. DYKE: We have a bill pending on that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we pay the bill and then 4 give you the money back? 5 MS. DYKE: Yes, we have the funds. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we do that? I'd just like 7 to have an exact number amount. It's kind of -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go ahead and pay the bill, 9 and then whatever's left over, we return it later. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll return it at the next 11 meeting. Put it on our agenda to -- with the balance in that 12 account. 13 MR. HENNEKE: But the bill is for the work that's 14 already been done. We'd be in agreement that no further work 15 will be done until we just make sure that everybody -- 16 everyone's on the same page. I think if you drive by, you'll 17 notice that there's the beginning of the gate that's already 18 been erected. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that work from y'all's 20 standpoint? 21 MS. DYKE: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want to hold anybody 23 else up. I just really would like to have an exact dollar 24 amount in the court order. Kind of an odd situation, rather 25 than just say a vague amount. 11-26-12 82 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's a good question, is 2 does it hold anything up while you get that amount? 3 MS. DYKE: I'm sorry, what did he say? 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 DR. RECTOR: Why don't you go up to the podium? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The question is, do you plan 7 on other work that -- that this would be -- 8 MS. DYKE: Well, the fence project was part of the 9 original plan of the reconstruction of the Union Church, so 10 it has always been there. We had a period of time when we 11 needed to get things settled, and also the fence was not in 12 -- it was purchased from an owner in Fredericksburg, and it 13 was not in very good condition. And then -- in other words, 14 it really -- it really needed to be dug up. It was mounted 15 and installed, and so therefore it needed some straightening, 16 and it also needed some coating, and so it is now in that 17 process, and -- and the coating process has been finished. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sandblasting and -- 19 MS. DYKE: And that bill is pending right now, 20 which is $1,100, and we do have the funds available to pay 21 for that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- 23 MS. DYKE: In this fund. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, in the Friends fund. 25 MS. DYKE: In the Friends fund, right. 11-26-12 83 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But the -- the issue now is if Kerr 2 County will pay that bill out of the Friends funds that they 3 hold, can you suspend any further activity in connection with 4 this project until we can get these funds returned to you, 5 and this three-party agreement is worked out? 6 MS. DYKE: Yes. Yes, we can. We'd love to move 7 forward as quickly as possible, but, you know, certainly the 8 action to make everything correct, well, we can certainly 9 take that time to do it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there are issues about -- 11 MS. DYKE: The organization. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the County authorizing it under 13 their lease, because the County's entitled to possession. 14 MS. DYKE: I understand that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You got Schreiner that's going to 16 claim ownership of that fence if some other agreement is not 17 reached. 18 MS. DYKE: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, it'd be in your 20 organization's best interests, I would think, to be in on the 21 discussions and be a party to this agreement so that your 22 interests can be -- 23 MS. DYKE: Exactly. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- protected. 25 MS. DYKE: Okay, thank you. 11-26-12 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 3 authorize the Auditor to pay the pending bill from the -- the 4 Friends, Kerr County Historical -- the Friends of the Kerr 5 County Historical Commission fund in the amount of 6 approximately $1,100, and at our next court meeting, an exact 7 amount will come back to the Court and we'll refund those 8 funds to the Friends group. And simultaneously, the County 9 Attorney will work on agreements with Schreiner, the Friends, 10 and Kerr County to allow for the installation of the fence 11 and ownership of same. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 14 indicated. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wore me out on that one. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have further question or 17 discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I would say is 19 that bill is for refurbishing the fence, and not 20 installation; is that correct? 21 MS. DYKE: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, it's not going to be 23 placed in the ground. 24 MS. DYKE: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 'Cause I think that's 11-26-12 85 1 important. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's very important. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Once you stick that fence in the 4 ground -- 5 DR. RECTOR: Whoever owns that dirt. 6 MS. DYKE: Well, there is one item, whether or not 7 this applies or not. The fence posts are already installed, 8 and so -- and we have a gate that's already ready to be 9 installed. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's probably going to have 11 to be addressed in this three-cornered agreement. 12 MS. DYKE: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 14 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's give Kathy 20 a rest. Look at that smile on her face. 21 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11:10 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 24 we might, to finish up our agenda from our morning recess. 25 That takes us to Item 20 -- 20? Item 13; to consider, 11-26-12 86 1 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding Phase 2 of the 2 Event Center at the Hill Country Youth Event Center. 3 Commissioner Oehler? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I put this on. 5 We've -- Jonathan and I worked with the architect on it on a 6 couple of occasions, and I have taken it to the stock show 7 folks, and also to Roy Walston to get their thoughts on the 8 floor plan. Which is what it is; it's a floor plan. Nothing 9 more, nothing less, just showing how that space can be 10 divided up and utilized for restrooms and storage and 11 caterer's kitchen, and where the division wall goes. And 12 we've actually extended it out a little farther so we can get 13 exactly the same square footage for the two big rooms; 14 they're split. Or it can be opened up. So, I just -- I 15 think I've showed it to you. I don't know if Tom has 16 reviewed it. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I haven't seen it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But there it is, and it's a 19 very simple plan. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Show barn. Here's the front near 21 the highway. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that -- is that the same 23 area, or is it increased area? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, much larger. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's double. 11-26-12 87 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same area, but the same width 2 as the new building, so it makes it -- it's the same. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it moves out toward the 4 road? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, moves out towards the 6 west. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. Same width. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it stays in the same 9 alignment in the front of the old building. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same as the front of the old, 11 but moves to the west. But I think we got -- I mean, I think 12 it's on the agenda primarily as to the next step. I mean, 13 and I think we're kind of -- I don't know where they are on 14 the fundraising side of it. I mean, my view, and I think the 15 Court's votes have been that we have set side five, six 16 hundred thousand dollars, depending a little bit what the 17 first phase costs for this building, and with the balance of 18 the funds to be raised by the community. And I've asked the 19 Stock Show Association to be lead in raising that money, and, 20 you know, it's kind of -- I don't see that we need to go -- I 21 think we need to have something that they can take out to 22 show the public, 'cause it makes it easier to see a picture, 23 but I don't want to spend money on a full architectural plan. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I'm not suggesting that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that, you know, I'd 11-26-12 88 1 like to hear from them as to what they think they -- they 2 need, if this is enough. Or if they need more, I think we 3 should accommodate that. And then I think it's kind of a -- 4 you know, in the community's court, you know, to raise the 5 additional funds. And the price tag that I believe Peter 6 came up with is about 1.3? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty close to that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty close. And that's -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so I suspect that that's a 11 slightly high number, because I think Peter Lewis has been -- 12 that he errs conservatively, so that there's -- you know, 13 you're not short-funded when you go out for bids on projects. 14 So, I think he's kind of -- it appears that about half a 15 million to 600,000 or 700,000 is the amount that's going to 16 have to be raised in the community. So, that's kind of -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's kind of -- I was just 18 -- 'cause the floor plan seems to match, and it works. It 19 flows. No intention whatsoever at this point of having a 20 full-blown set of plans drawn to go out for bids, because 21 we're not there yet. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I think the -- you 23 know, part of the final design may be dictated by the money 24 that's raised. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 11-26-12 89 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If somebody wants to, you know, 2 fund more than this, maybe it will be more. If somebody -- 3 if it gets to the point that the decision has to be made, 4 okay, do we go ahead and go with a $900,000 building, or do 5 we hold off on it? I think that's something I think we need 6 to have consultation with the Stock Show Association. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me understand. So, what 8 we're -- what's being proposed here is a floor plan so that 9 the Stock Show Association can move forward and look for 10 funding for this. The funds for -- if we were to move 11 forward on this, the funds from the County would come from 12 the money raised for this obligation, those funds? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But there's no other 15 commitment other than, "Here's the floor plan," you know, 16 and -- and that could even change, okay. So, it's -- it's a 17 concept. Okay. A back-of-the-envelope -- back-of-the- 18 envelope kind of plan so that we could go out and inform the 19 public. You know, my concern has been the public -- you 20 know, Stock Show Association knows about it; they work with 21 it. A lot of the public has no idea what we're talking 22 about. They don't know what Phase 1, Phase 2 is, so that 23 would be a benefit, saying this is what -- this is what this 24 deal is about. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 11-26-12 90 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And call it a -- call it a 2 convention center or whatever -- we're not going to call it a 3 convention center; it's an exhibition hall. But if you ask 4 several people, it's a convention center. You know, if it 5 walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but it's not twenty 7 million dollars. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's not a duck. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not a duck, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But it's still something like 11 that that could be used for high school graduations, and 12 that's the kind of stuff that I hear about. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A lot of the public that I've 15 talked to have said, "We don't have any idea what you're 16 talking about -- you guys are talking about." I say, "Well, 17 I don't either, okay?" So, I think we've got a lot to do to 18 inform the public of what's being proposed out there, because 19 the public turned down the County's proposal some time ago 20 for a bigger facility. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a different 22 facility. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand, but now we're 24 just kind of gnawing away a bite at a time. Outdoor arena, 25 now we did the show barn, now we're going to do this. We're 11-26-12 91 1 doing a piece at a time without -- without an overall plan of 2 letting people see what it is that we want to do, and what 3 the -- so I think we owe that to the public. So, you know, 4 from my understanding of what you just said, this is just a 5 back-of-the-envelope concept of what a floor plan could look 6 like, and it's going to be big. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. It just needed to be 8 done so that they would have something to go with to show 9 people what -- what they're trying to raise money for. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. And, again, I see no 11 commitment other than -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There isn't -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is a concept. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Till the Court votes to, you 15 know, go forward with demolition and site work and all that. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, and I 18 think what you just mentioned is the public doesn't know what 19 it is. That's a frustration that I think all -- not 20 necessarily all; I'll just say I have on countless projects. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you can take a horse to 23 water; you can't make it drink. We put -- this is -- this 24 project has been on our agenda and has been in all the papers 25 I don't know how many times in the last 12 months, and people 11-26-12 92 1 say, "We don't know anything about it." 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you know, you can't 4 solve that problem. I mean, it's like -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's just the nature of 7 what we -- the world we live in today. I mean, people that 8 are -- that want to be involved are involved. A lot of them 9 choose not to be involved. But -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But want the right to complain 11 because they didn't know. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, anyway, so -- but 13 I still think it's -- it is always better, and I think this 14 Court has always erred in the area of putting more 15 information out more times, you know, as much as possible. 16 There's a -- an audience that the Stock Show Association 17 reaches that we don't reach. I think if we get a plan like 18 this, you know, I think we should make a presentation, or 19 someone should get with it to make sure the City has a copy 20 of it anyway, 'cause they have a different audience than we 21 do, and anybody else that wants to do it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Civic groups, presentations. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make presentations on it. And 24 I'm sure they're going to do that, because that's going to be 25 their -- their charge, really, is to raise the money. And 11-26-12 93 1 they need something that we kind of -- at least there's a 2 tacit approval of, which is where we are. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One other question, if I 4 might. Before the Stock Show Association does their thing 5 for the County to decide whether or not to commit the funds 6 for something like that, what is -- what is -- do we know 7 about the market for something like this? Is it -- is it 8 something that's going to be used? You don't have to answer 9 now, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, according to the hotels 11 and motels, they say they will fill it up a lot. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I saw Sudie's plan for 13 this, and Sudie's marketing analysis was that every single 14 three-day -- every weekend that this wasn't committed for 15 something else, it would be fully utilized. Well, I tend not 16 to agree with that. I think that's -- you know, you're not 17 going to fill something like this every single weekend. So, 18 what's a realistic marketing analysis for this? What's the 19 competition we have for something like this in surrounding 20 counties? What does the City have planned, if anything, that 21 would compete with this? Or is there some way the City and 22 County could work together on it? My goodness. So, there's 23 a lot of things I think before we move forward. I don't have 24 any problem with laying out a -- a concept, a 25 back-of-the-envelope -- I won't call it back-of-the-envelope 11-26-12 94 1 concept, but that's fine, you know. This is -- this is the 2 size of it, and here's where the restrooms would be. But I 3 don't see that there's a lot of other stuff that goes in it, 4 I think, before we move forward. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what we're laying out here 6 is more than what you'd call a back-of-the-envelope. I think 7 it's a -- it is a floor plan. Not necessarily "the" floor 8 plan. It is a floor plan that gives the public the 9 opportunity to see one layout to accomplish a multitude of 10 virtually any kind of events or gatherings. And if there 11 is -- if there's some efficiency to be gained or some 12 modifications to be made, certainly, any suggestions are 13 welcome. And it may well be that the fundraising efforts are 14 such that funding is soft, so there's necessarily some 15 modifications to be made in either the size or the -- or the 16 amenities. Or if the fundraising efforts are brisk, you may 17 be able to upgrade, enhance, modify, so as to take advantage 18 of the availability of the -- of the support. But this is a 19 starting point. These folks need it in order to go to their 20 initial supporters that they believe would provide 21 significant support, because of their work and support and 22 belief in the -- in basically the stock show, the youth 23 programs over the years. Now, granted, this -- this 24 particular phase would -- would be much broader than for 25 youth purposes. 11-26-12 95 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There's so many things that even 3 occur out at that inadequate facility we got now, but it's 4 the best we got and we're making do with it, that this will 5 solve. And, you know, I'm sure it -- I suspect that the 6 private sector that are not affiliated with the stock show 7 people are going to demonstrate some interest, because it 8 will solve some of the issues for events which are not 9 capable of being held. Your question about every three-day 10 weekend, I -- I would have that doubt also, but there is 11 significant inquiry that has been demonstrated in the past 12 for larger groups that existing hotels cannot accommodate, 13 and if there were a facility where they could have their 14 meetings and -- and their banquets and all that sort of 15 thing, it may prove beneficial. But this is the launch 16 point. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Well, this is, you 18 know, more than just a back-of-the-envelope, but I didn't 19 mean to be negative on that, but it is a fluid thing. 20 It's -- this is it, but it can be changed. And I certainly 21 see the benefit of -- of talking to other non-youth, 22 non-stock show related things that could use a facility like 23 this, and, you know, where they're going to be able to 24 identify how large -- how many people can I put in there? 25 And -- 11-26-12 96 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1,400. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. And so that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's on there. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. That's -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1,600 is what they're saying. 6 In fact, they're saying 17. I think that's really crowded. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's an important parameter. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those numbers are on there. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And you need that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 600-something per each side. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And right now, the maximum 13 anybody can do in town is about 650. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. So, to -- to go back 15 to the marketing and the competition, in addition to starting 16 with this, can we also look at what's the market for 17 something like this, and perhaps get K.E.D.C. involved in 18 this? That's their charter, and I think they've got some 19 thoughts. I think E.I.C. is -- from my understanding, would 20 be very interested in -- in something like this. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: E.I.C., I think the stock 22 show's going to have to pay them another visit. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right, and that's good. 24 And that's good. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they've already funded a 11-26-12 97 1 portion of the new pens that go in this first phase. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And all the other existing 4 space. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, other than that, I agree. 6 So, I'd just say make it perhaps just a little bit larger 7 than, "Here's a concept for what it would look like." But 8 here's -- "Here's the reason we should or should not 9 proceed." 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you -- do you gentlemen from the 11 stock show, insofar as making presentations to your 12 supporters, interested benefactors or whatever, and -- or 13 going before various civic groups -- 14 MR. BAUER: We have. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But you're going to go before 16 that -- tell us what you need. Are you going to need one of 17 these fancy architectural -- 18 MR. BAUER: No, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- markups of cardboard put 20 together? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They've got them. 22 MR. BAUER: Judge and Commissioners, we have begun 23 the process of fundraising. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're using something -- 25 MR. BAUER: We are using something like that. We 11-26-12 98 1 applied to many of the foundations that we are working 2 towards applying with, some of which we cannot reapply with 3 for another year, because we used them on Phase 1, but some 4 that we have -- we use the drawings like that. We do a -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. BAUER: -- budget, which Commissioner Oehler 7 and the architect have been gracious enough to supply us 8 with. Those are things that are required in those foundation 9 requirements. We've done that, gone forward with that. We 10 have made some presentations to the noontime Rotary on Phase 11 1. We may need to revisit them and go back again. E.I.C. is 12 involved in Phase 1. They have invited us to come back with 13 Phase 2 after the first of the year, so we are honoring that 14 request; we'll go back after the first of the year. To 15 address your question about marketing, just to share 16 something that we've been informed of, is two of the large 17 hotels in town have asked us for a timeline when we can start 18 marketing this thing. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. BAUER: Because they see the value. Like 21 Bruce -- Commissioner Oehler said, there are only 600 seats 22 available in any organizational place right now. They see 23 the value of this. They want to be able to market it and 24 have a timeline that's going to maybe go forward, so that's a 25 question they've asked us. 11-26-12 99 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. The question is not 2 going out and advertising for it and bringing people in. 3 What is the market? You know, that's the real question. 4 What is the market? What's the addressable market, all those 5 terms that go along with marketing. What do -- what do other 6 organizations -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Facilities. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What do other facilities like 9 this in other counties -- what's their experience in what -- 10 you know, I mean, they're -- they are there. There's some 11 real data -- 12 MR. BAUER: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- out there. Those are the 14 kinds of things that I think we need to address and answer. 15 If they're full 80 or 90 percent of the time, that's great. 16 If they're full 10 percent of the time, then, you know, 17 that's something -- well why are we better than they are? 18 MR. BAUER: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And so the marketing is not 20 just to have the hotels -- yeah, they want to fill all their 21 rooms, I agree, and that's good. But that's not marketing. 22 MR. BAUER: Yes, sir. But like I said, those are 23 the kind of tools that we need, like you're describing right 24 here to go forward. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 11-26-12 100 1 MR. BAUER: We have used -- Bob, do you have 2 anything to add to that? 3 MR. REEVES: Just simply that we have used what we 4 have. We have Power Points for our foundations that we're 5 adding to, that Commissioner Oehler, Commissioner Letz, the 6 rest of the Court has been very gracious in providing us 7 whatever we need, as well as attending. As far as market 8 studies, I can only attribute it to what Sudie has put 9 together over the past 20 years, knowing what -- what the 10 facilities are doing right now. As far as what they will be 11 doing, that can only be addressed by further studies of it. 12 The -- the facilities that we are planning now has been very 13 well received by the two larger hotels, including national 14 agricultural shows that have bypassed Kerrville in the past, 15 for the simple reason there's not facilities. Mr. Bauer 16 won't toot his own horn, but he's part of one national 17 organization that left here because of inadequate facilities 18 at one time. He -- he knows what they're looking for, and I 19 think he said while he was in South Dakota, there was a lot 20 of talk about the Texas Hill Country again. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, see, that's the kind of 22 stuff that I'm talking about, that very thing. You know, 23 people are not here now. We think there's some percentage of 24 probability that they -- they would come here if this 25 facility was here. And then, just like -- you know, I don't 11-26-12 101 1 want to keep talking about the airport, but the airport -- 2 the airport's going to come to the City and the County and 3 they're going to propose building some new facilities out 4 there, but they're also going to show the return on 5 investment. They're going to show a real return on 6 investment and a net positive revenue before they'll ask the 7 City or the County to invest in those facilities. So, I 8 don't know why this is different than something like that. I 9 mean, there needs to be some really hard core numbers that go 10 along with it, other than it's -- it's nice to have. Do we 11 need it? So I want to take it out of the "nice to have" 12 category and put it in the "need to have." 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, are you saying that if 14 this thing won't cash flow to amortize its cost over a 15 standard 20-, 25-year period, that you would be opposed to 16 constructing it in the first place? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. I think that that's a 18 data point, and that's a thing that we have to address. And 19 I think we have to look at what our economic environment is 20 at that time, if we think our revenues are going to continue 21 to increase or decrease, before we make a commitment on 22 something like that. And no, I don't say -- I wouldn't say 23 right now that it has to do that, but I think that's a very 24 important piece of information. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do y'all need -- I mean, would 11-26-12 102 1 an elevation be helpful? Or is this all you need pretty 2 much, a floor plan drawing? 3 MR. REEVES: I think right now, Commissioner, that 4 would suffice. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MR. REEVES: Just simply, they're looking at when 7 we're trying to market it, what we're doing. They're looking 8 at the overall footprint of it, as well as Commissioner 9 Oehler knows when we traveled looking at other facilities, 10 every elevation was a little bit different that we went to 11 look at. It was more of what could be used, what was 12 available, and what's out there. Now, if I may answer your 13 question, Commissioner Moser, as far as dollars and cents, I 14 deal with dollars and cents all the time on real estate. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 16 MR. REEVES: This goes beyond that scope, and I 17 think it's -- the best quote is what David Fritz said at an 18 E.I.C. public hearing. He said, "We've got to look at what 19 it does for our kids. You can't quantify that." I'd asked 20 David -- and he's from the Mini-Mart family -- to come speak 21 about what it does to his business, and how it impacts 22 whatever event that's held out there. He made a brief 23 statement on that, but he said it -- what we do out there -- 24 and I'm talking about the livestock show, the 4-H, the F.F.A. 25 He said you can't quantify that. When you're helping kids 11-26-12 103 1 learn responsibility, further their education, you can't 2 quantify that into a dollars and cents. And that's what our 3 organization's all about, is helping the kids. And, Judge, I 4 won't go -- everybody knows how you and I go back and forth 5 on what it does for the kids and who you see, and I think 6 that everybody knows that. But what I'm saying is that if it 7 helps the kids, forget a cap rate, forget dollars and cents. 8 What does it do for that, as well as what does it do for Kerr 9 County? I've lived here 50 -- almost 51 years. I won't tell 10 you how close to 51, but -- but it's getting real close. And 11 I watch what goes on out at that facility, what it used to 12 look like when I was in high school, what it looked like 30 13 years ago, and what it's going to look like, and people will 14 come. I've seen this in other venues that I travel to with 15 my kids. They will come, and that's -- that's just how it 16 is. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let me go on record. I 18 agree with you 100 percent about the -- the qualitative 19 value, not the quantitative value, and the tangential value 20 to kids, and what the 4-H does and all of the other 21 ag-related things, and I'm 100 percent. My kids have done 22 that, and I agree with you. This -- this is a little bit -- 23 the exhibition hall is for the kids, but it's also for a 24 bigger -- bigger thing, okay? So, that -- that's my whole 25 point. I think the show barn and the hog facilities and all 11-26-12 104 1 that, that's just -- you know, you can't quantify the value 2 of that. I agree with you 100 percent on that. In my life 3 in dealing with space programs, the value to the kids is 4 probably the most important thing of all human space 5 exploration. You can't put a value on it. What it does to 6 create ingenuity and imagination and advancement in math and 7 science, that's -- you can't quantify it. That justifies it 8 almost in itself, so I agree with you 100 percent on that. 9 But I think when we're committing taxpayers' dollars to an 10 exhibition hall, which is partly for kids, but also is partly 11 for a lot of other things, then that's the reason I bring 12 that issue up. So, I think we're on the same wavelength. 13 MR. REEVES: I think we're on the same wavelength. 14 And just as Commissioner Letz asked me to commit the show 15 last January to a half million dollars that we would be 16 willing to raise for this facility, and we are doing that. 17 That half a million does not include what we just raised, 18 over 300,000 to furnish it. So, we're committed to raising 19 our share outside of the tax dollars that are going in here. 20 We're committed to that. We're using our nonprofit status. 21 We have a grant committee that's meeting on a regular basis 22 as we learn of grants. One of the biggest things we've run 23 up against is nobody wants to step out there to be the first 24 one, but we're all hard-headed enough, we're not going to 25 quit. 11-26-12 105 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Persistent. 2 MR. REEVES: Hard-headed. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To -- on that, you might 4 mention who was the first -- I was just thinking. A lot of 5 times in the community, there's -- you know, there's 6 thermometers or whatever; they kind of fill them up as you 7 have money. If you showed there's 600,000 already committed 8 from the County, I mean, that -- it's an ongoing -- it's -- I 9 mean, there already is a sizable commitment. 10 MR. BAUER: Yes, and we address that whenever we 11 apply to the foundations, that the County has committed "X" 12 number of dollars. That's part of the budget that we give to 13 them, so they know that. The part they're not willing to 14 step out is being that first private foundation, that first 15 leader there, you know. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. BAUER: It's not that they don't -- I mean, the 18 responses we have gotten back have all been favorable. They 19 just -- they're sitting back, I guess, a little bit. You 20 know, it's an education process, like you said, Commissioner, 21 getting it out in the community. The people that go by 22 there, the people that know me or us, that are involved, say, 23 you know, "Hey, looks great." But, yes, there's always that 24 part that we can't get that education or that news out to 25 that we still need to -- to work on. And that's -- we'll 11-26-12 106 1 find that leader somewhere, and he'll step out. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, with your placement of 3 this item on the agenda, is there any formal action that you 4 desire to be taken by the Court at this time? These 5 gentlemen have indicated this is what they need for now. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, if they need something 8 more, we invite them to let us know so that we can help them 9 get to where they need to get. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't guess there probably 11 is any need to take any formal action, 'cause we've 12 already -- you know, we've already gotten Peter to do this 13 for you, this part of it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're in possession of it. 16 I guess I wanted to get it on here for discussion more than 17 anything else, and I think we've done that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Anything else on 19 this item, gentlemen? Let's move on, then. Let's talk about 20 paying the bills. Item Number 4. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank y'all. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, gentlemen. We 23 appreciate it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me get my bills. Keep on 25 going. 11-26-12 107 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Here, I'll give you mine. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have those right on my desk. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. I'm trying to see if I 4 marked any here. Occasionally I do, and I generally call the 5 Auditor's office before. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do those come as a package? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. You should have gotten -- 8 MS. HARGIS: It's in your box, probably. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Huh? 10 MS. HARGIS: Should be in your box. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we pay the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 15 bills. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster's not here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be quick. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 20 by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. We've got some 25 budget amendment requests, 1 through 6. Do I hear a motion 11-26-12 108 1 that the budget amendment requests, as evidenced by Items 1 2 through 6, be approved as submitted? Looks like we actually 3 got two income items here, doesn't it? 4 MS. HARGIS: We do. On the -- the $2,400, I think 5 that -- we didn't put that one on; it was already approved. 6 The interest on the lease payments, it was just not budgeted 7 properly from Road and Bridge. They put too much in 8 principal and not enough in interest, so we just flipped 9 those. The one that kind of bothers us is Number 4. Number 10 4 is basically zeroed out, and as you know, this is just the 11 first 30 days, so we have a problem already in that 12 particular area we need to address. It was medical expenses 13 for some rapes that we had, so we pretty much ate it up, and 14 so we just need to be aware going forward that the $10,000 is 15 gone. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that initially a $10,000 number? 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was initially -- for years, 19 it was 10,000. Last couple of years, we were able to get 20 by -- we dropped it to 7,500, if I recall right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And then you promptly burn it in the 22 first 30 days, huh? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unfortunately. And I'll 24 discuss that in -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11-26-12 109 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- reports in just a minute, 2 but yes. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, we just need to be aware 4 of it, and then if you need more money as we go on for this 5 very same thing, we'll have do another budget amendment. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, based on that, 7 should we not go into -- put some -- you know, several 8 thousand, just so we don't have to deal with every two 9 dollars here and there? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we look at what -- you know, 12 fund the line item out of one of your other line items, and 13 come in with a budget amendment at our next meeting. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As y'all know, we have 15 streamlined the budget drastically over the last number of 16 years. Now, I'm sure through the course of the year -- like 17 right now, we could fund it out of -- I've had an opening 18 that will be filled shortly in dispatch. I haven't had that 19 many jail openings. Now, a lot of times my shortfalls are 20 made up in those openings. We are early in the year. This 21 is the -- excuse me -- first time we've had this issue, but 22 what happened is we have an ongoing investigation that made 23 some very expensive forensic analysis that had to be done 24 outside of D.P.S. lab and in private that cost a large 25 amount. We've had a number of sexual assault cases where the 11-26-12 110 1 victim's initial diagnosis and everything, treatment at the 2 hospital is paid by the -- by my investigative expense. It's 3 a requirement of the investigation. Hopefully you get 4 reimbursed by the state crime victims, you know, deal later, 5 but they never reimburse that at 100 percent. And we've had 6 a number of those. This has been one of those very unusual 7 years where we've had some very costly forensic analysis that 8 had to be done that I couldn't control, but still had to 9 approve. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about -- wouldn't it be 11 better to take it, rather than -- I mean, you have -- you 12 have vacancies in your dispatchers, is why you're taking it 13 there? Or would it be better to take -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have one that will be 15 filled. You have to remember, we've been trying to get this 16 one filled for a while, and I really need to get it filled, 17 'cause I'm paying overtime. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about -- normally you 19 have money in your jailers line item. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, by the end of the year. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you don't have any in 22 your dispatch. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 24 MS. HARGIS: But this year we don't have -- 25 currently have no vacancies. Again, we're so close to the 11-26-12 111 1 early of the year. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 MS. HARGIS: So, I mean, we can -- we can look at 4 it, and -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wherever you have it. 6 MS. HARGIS: You know, with the short week, it was 7 kind of hard to get in touch with everybody, so we -- 8 basically, it was only $262 over, but we need to put some 9 money there. We'll do that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Cover this one now, then take a look 12 and see? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, because I just don't 14 have any other option at this time. I'd like to be able to 15 pull gradually, but we'll have to see. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we approve Budget 18 Amendments 1 through 6. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As presented. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 22 Budget Amendment Requests 1 through 6 as presented. Question 23 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-26-12 112 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Late bills. 4 Looks -- 5 MS. HARGIS: We have one. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- like we have one. Neal and Neal 7 Construction. 8 MS. HARGIS: The bill was in. We just -- it was 9 overlooked, so we wanted to be sure it was run through. This 10 is for the -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's for the slab. 12 MS. HARGIS: -- concrete work out there. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Slab out there at the project 14 barn. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the new restroom that we 17 approved being put up. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that also in connection with the 19 interceptor and -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All -- all that's in and 21 operational. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's all one deal. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that the late 25 bill to Neal and Neal in the amount of $4,262.50 be approved? 11-26-12 113 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 5 raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I've been 10 presented with monthly reports from Kerr County Treasurer for 11 October 2012, and revised September 2012 Treasurer's report, 12 indicating Page 16 was the only revised page. Do I hear a 13 motion that the indicated reports be approved as presented? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 17 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 18 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. Reports 24 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or 25 committee assignments. Commissioner Letz? 11-26-12 114 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything, 2 other than, you know, at the moment, I have some things 3 probably on our next agenda, but today we're -- nothing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, not really. Janie caught 6 all the llamas, so I'm pretty well -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: She got all the llamas rounded up. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There wound up to be 10 of 9 them. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Found them a good home. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Found them a good home. 12 Lady's taking good care of them. She doles them out to 13 people that want them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Moser? 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing else. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Reports from department 17 heads? Elected officials? The Sheriff. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course. First, I also want 19 to thank Janie for what she does. I think this Court, most 20 of y'all on here can remember all those issues -- llamas, 21 goats -- are estray issues that are required to be handled by 22 the Sheriff. And at one time, this Court had to privately 23 contract, if you'll remember, with somebody to haul those and 24 get them to sale and pen them, and, you know, one resident 25 out west, Mr. Hawkins, did that for years for the county. 11-26-12 115 1 So, now that Janie does do that, it does save us a lot of 2 time and money to be able to get that done, and she has done 3 an excellent job assisting us with those estrays. I 4 appreciate her and her group for that, and they have -- you 5 know, they get a multitude of different types of animals. 6 You know, we caught about a 7-foot lizard here not very long 7 ago. So, you know, they're doing real well. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She got called out; somebody 9 had a snake on her porch the other day, almost had a heart 10 attack. They went out and got the snake. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Used to, the department just 12 responded with a .22. It has really helped. But a couple of 13 things. The last Commissioners Court, I did advise you about 14 the tax note seizure we had to do on a whole lot of the 15 former Whelan Plumbing equipment. Thanks with Rob's 16 assistance and that too, there has been some court orders 17 issued and that. I believe the County and all the taxing 18 entities have been paid in full. We'll be releasing all that 19 equipment back to a bank, and what they do with it is their 20 business, but they have 10 days to get it off of our property 21 from the other day; 10 business days, or they will start 22 paying about a $200-a-day storage fee until it's out of 23 there. So, I do not want to use that -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty secure storage, though, 25 wouldn't you admit, Sheriff? 11-26-12 116 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's pretty secure storage. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably pretty cheap at $200 a 3 day. You might be in business for a while. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I won't be, I can promise 5 you. If it takes too long, I'll get a wrecker to come get 6 everything. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that per piece, or for the 8 whole lot? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ought to be. But I think that 10 will get worked out finally the way it works. I feel sorry 11 for all those employees that -- you know, put in the 12 unemployment line right during this time of year. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: People will no longer think 14 you're in the plumbing business. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope not. We've had a lot 16 of calls about it, and there are a lot of different 17 investigations. Our department's not through with that, but 18 -- but they're -- most of our part of it, as far as holding 19 the tax sale, is done. One thing y'all were -- oh, I did 20 have -- when Mr. Reeh was up here earlier, and I did not need 21 to use it, is the stats for all the calls off Holloman Road 22 and Wood Trail. Since 2009, we've worked two wrecks on 23 Holloman road, okay? And that's a very long period of time. 24 So -- but in case it was needed, we had already pulled that, 25 'cause he had requested it several weeks ago also. And I 11-26-12 117 1 noticed he wasn't happy with the outcome of how many calls 2 there were. But the main thing is, I know y'all are talking 3 about Phase 2 of the facility, and you're not going to want 4 to hear this at all, but our jail population as of this 5 morning was 145, with 35 females. And, remember, I only have 6 32 female beds. I am using up 16 male beds with overflow. I 7 don't have a choice. And, gentlemen, now this has come back 8 to us, but I think it's -- infrastructure should be a 9 priority. And I'm very much for the kids, but if we don't do 10 something with that jail over the next year or two, it -- 11 we're all going to know it. You know, protecting the kids is 12 also keeping the criminal elements off the street, and I've 13 got to have a way to do that without having to pay $45 to $50 14 a day to house them somewhere else, and then we're still 15 liable for however that jail treats them or whatever they do. 16 I don't think that's a very smart way of doing it. But you 17 have to remember, our jail's creeping up on 20 years old, and 18 I don't know if you could -- and I hate using the analogy, 19 but take any hotel in town that has every room full for 20 20 years, seven days a week, 24 hours a day, without having to 21 make some major improvements. Our kitchen, if y'all will 22 recall when we built that jail, the stove and oven and 23 everything else used in that jail out there did come out of 24 this jail, and it's still going, so that -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good. 11-26-12 118 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good equipment. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We try, and it was good 4 equipment. But that stuff is 25 to 30 years old now. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, let me make a 6 recommendation to you. Get the schedule from Mr. Bauer and 7 Mr. Reeves on their presentations on Phase 2, and you follow 8 right behind them to those civic groups, those citizens 9 groups, those various organizations, and tell them that the 10 County probably should withdraw its commitment to that 11 project because we need those funds to -- to enhance the 12 jail. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, Judge, I'll put it in 14 the simplest way I can put it. I think there are priorities 15 and there are things that we would all love to see. Being a 16 grandfather of 10 grandkids, I would love to see the Ag Barn 17 and things like that expanded. I think that program, as you 18 see in your juvenile court and as we see in the 4-H, anything 19 we can do for our kids is well worth every dollar we spend on 20 it. But I think the County and our taxpayers' obligation -- 21 and private funding is great for that. I don't think I'm 22 ever going to raise a dime for private funding to help, you 23 know, build a new jail. People just aren't going to do that, 24 just like this Court has a hard time spending money on a 25 jail. That's just something we don't want to have to think 11-26-12 119 1 about. But I think we do have to prioritize, and we do have 2 to look at what is the County's true obligations to our 3 citizens and law enforcement. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I know the County's obligated to 5 have a facility, and have one that's in compliance and that 6 remains in compliance. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we're in agreement. 8 It's just something that -- that, unfortunately, it is very 9 expensive to add onto the jail. It's a whole lot more 10 expensive than to build the -- the Ag Barn up. And I think 11 we all agree that the Ag Barn needs to be there. I was one 12 of the ones that also helped talk about it, because the 13 current Phase 2 -- that building was built when, Bruce? 14 1950-something. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: '56. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: '56. It needs to be done away 17 with, okay. But there are things we also have to do to 18 insure the safety and that our criminal elements are locked 19 up, and I don't think we should be paying other counties to 20 do that. Fredericksburg did pass their bond issue this last 21 election. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe they want some of your 23 girls. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know how many they're 25 going to do. 11-26-12 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, you know, this should 2 probably be an agenda item if you want to discuss it a whole 3 lot more. But, you know, we talk about it, and you've been 4 very good and the Court's been very good at trying to -- we 5 kind of bounce up, we bounce back down. You know, at some 6 point, I think we all know we're going to have to do 7 something out there, build another facility or add onto that 8 facility, and the longer we can push it off, the better. And 9 you've been able to help out and keep the numbers low, and 10 the courts -- work with the courts and get it done. The 11 female population continues to be the big problem area, and 12 there is a fix; it's not too expensive. It hurts the other 13 side to fix it. I think we just need to kind of do what 14 you're doing. Keep us informed, and at some point, because 15 the cost is so high to do anything out there, it'll probably 16 take a bond issue. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's exactly where I try 18 keep it, in front of y'all. You know, I don't want to come 19 in here at, you know, the last minute and say, "We're done." 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We had the same population 22 as -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Takes two years to build. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know. And it's -- you know, 25 I'm -- even if we started building today, I'm afraid that the 11-26-12 121 1 way it's going -- and this is the first time I've had to 2 shift those cells for this long a period, or this early in 3 the -- in the year, you might call it. I'm afraid we're 4 going to be housing out-of-county quickly, just -- especially 5 with the females. It's still going to take Fredericksburg 6 two years to build what they just passed a bond issue for. 7 Back when our jail was built, they normally, you know, 8 recommended about 10 percent or 5 percent, something like 9 that, females, and that's what was built. And thank 10 goodness, this county took the high road then. A lot of them 11 recommended a 96-bed facility. Y'all voted and put in a 12 192-bed facility. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Voters did. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The voters voted. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it passed. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It passed on the second time. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Convincingly. It wasn't a 20 close vote. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it is something that I 22 think we need to look at, because even if we broke ground 23 today, I'm afraid we're going to be housing out-of-county 24 before we can ever move people in. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What does Bandera County have? 11-26-12 122 1 What kind of capacity for females? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They've got a 96-bed facility. 3 I don't know how much of that is capacity for females. Now, 4 what I've heard -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Now that the election's over, it'd 6 probably be -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've heard -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- good for to you inquire, wouldn't 9 it? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what I've heard through 11 the grapevine, Bandera and Kendall both pretty well expect 12 jail populations to go up drastically because of the change 13 in administrations and different enforcement, okay. And -- 14 that's what I'm here for. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Anybody else? 16 MR. HENNEKE: No, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else to come before the 18 Court at today's meeting? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I just will remark that 20 it just amazes me that we have -- no matter how many items we 21 have on our agenda, we're always finished right at or very 22 close to 12 o'clock. You do a great job at scheduling 23 things. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Even without Buster here -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we have 36, we get finished 11-26-12 123 1 at 12:00. If we have 12, we finish at 12:00. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He manages the break. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Even without Buster here, we get it 4 accomplished. Okay. If there's nothing further to come 5 before the Court today, we'll adjourn. 6 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:57 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of November, 16 2012. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 11-26-12