1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, January 14, 2013 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 14, 2013 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 6 --- Commissioners' Comments 8 4 1.1 Report from Stock Show Association regarding 5 2013 Stock Show 14 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve budget amendment of $5,000 from 10-499-104 7 (Deputy Salaries) to 10-499-108 (Part Time) -- 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Small Purchase Procurement Records for 9 Kerr County OSSF Grant Number 710065 for Round Two applicants 19 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve homeowner at 313 Skyview Drive, Ingram, for OSSF assistance as part of County's OSSF grant 20 12 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 solicit bids or requests for proposal for construction and finish out of 198th District 14 Attorney’s Office space at Sheriff’s Office Annex 21 15 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept 2012 Tier 1-Partial Exemption Racial 16 Profiling Report for 198th Judicial District Attorney’s Office 29 17 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 allow use of Flat Rock Lake Park by Leadership Kerr County for 2013 Easter Fest community event 30 19 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 establish a committee to assess the value of constructing a new Exhibition Center at Hill 21 Country Youth Events Center 37 22 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize paying for services to help obtain 23 Rights of Entry (ROE) from property owners that will enable site evaluations/surveys for Center 24 Point Wastewater collection system 42 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 14, 2013 2 PAGE 1.7 Consider/discuss and take appropriate action to 3 determine options for Kerr County residents living outside city of Kerrville to have use of the 4 Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library services without individually paying annual or use fees 46 5 1.16 Presentation of Flood Mitigation Petition for 6 residents of Comfort area and possible discussion 66 7 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept audit reports for J.P.'s 1 and 3 75 8 1.20 Introduction of Laura Broyles from the NRCS 9 Kerrville office, and welcome her to Kerr County 76 10 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to create scholarship fund for the purpose of paying 11 library fees to City of Kerrville for residents of Kerr County living outside corporate city 12 limits who are otherwise unable to pay such fees 80 13 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to negotiate contract with City of Kerrville for 14 reduced user fee rate for Kerr County scholarship recipients 83 15 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 approve resolution for submission of the General Victim Assistance–Direct Services Programs grant 17 proposal for 2013-2014 83 18 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve two-year extension on current depository 19 contract with Security State Bank; allow County Judge to sign same 85 20 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 21 establish policies regarding Kerr County Youth Baseball fields 86 22 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 reduce registration fee during annual rabies drive Feb. 2 – Feb. 16, 2013 118 24 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 give Terra Bailey an educational increase for her basic Animal Control Certification 119 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 14, 2013 2 PAGE 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 select date for workshop to discuss Opening Meetings Act and Open Records Act 121 4 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 5 TCEQ communication on Ingram Lake Dam 127 6 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to con- sider appointment of courthouse square committee 131 7 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 designate Commissioner’s and Judge’s liaison appointments for calendar year 2013 137 9 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 file request for pro rata distribution of proceeds from Tobacco Settlement Permanent Trust Account 143 11 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve various formal change orders to Show Barn at Hill Country Youth Event Center 146 13 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 14 application and certificate for payment to Journeyman Construction for Show Barn at Hill 15 Country Youth Event Center 148 16 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Center Point Helping Hands for 17 payment of tipping fees reimbursement on Center Point Helping Hands clean-up project(s) --- 18 1.29 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 19 regarding revisions to the following County Personnel Policies: 6.04 Work Hours; 6.07 Time 20 and Attendance Records/Time Keeping, and 6.08 Pay 149 21 4.1 Pay Bills 163 4.2 Budget Amendments 164 22 4.3 Late Bills 167 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 172 23 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 24 Assignments 174 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 179 25 --- Adjourned 184 5 1 On Monday, January 14, 2013, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, January 14, 2013, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would everyone please stand, 13 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Please be seated. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 17 that wishes to be heard on a matter which is not a listed 18 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 19 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on an 20 agenda item, we'd prefer that you fill out a participation 21 form. There should be some located at the rear of the room. 22 If not, when we get to that item, get my attention in some 23 manner and I'll give you the opportunity to be heard. But 24 right now, if you wish to speak on an item which is not a 25 listed agenda item, come forward, give us your name and 1-14-13 6 1 address, please, and tell us what's on your mind. Thank you, 2 sir. 3 MR. NOLLER: Good morning. My name is Gary Noller. 4 I live at 140 Ray Drive North in Center Point, and I'm here 5 as spokesperson for the Hill Country Veterans Alliance. We 6 would like to just introduce ourselves to you as an 7 organization that has been in existence about six or eight 8 months now here in the Hill Country area. We're composed of 9 representatives from a variety of veterans' service 10 organizations and other community organizations that have 11 interest and concerns of veterans. We did some work on 12 behalf of the commission, the planning committee for the 13 memorial out here, the addition of names, and were able to 14 come back with some criteria that was adopted by this board. 15 More recently, we've been working on behalf of veterans 16 housing here in Kerrville, the Veterans Administration lease 17 that they have with the developer here at the Kerrville 18 property. Many of our members have been proponents of that. 19 And last week, at the city commission meeting, the City did 20 pass a resolution of support, which was a requirement to move 21 forward with the tax credits at the state level. And one of 22 the things that we'd like do is to approach this board in 23 some manner to see if you would indicate your support also 24 for veterans' housing and the merits of this project. 25 Veterans compose about 13 percent of the population 1-14-13 7 1 of Kerr County. Normally across the United States, veterans 2 are about 6 percent, so we've got about twice as many 3 veterans percentage-wise here in Kerr County. The Veterans 4 Administration money coming into Kerr County is almost 5 $60 million. If there's 6,000 veterans here in Kerr County, 6 about 3,000 would be normal, so you've got 3,000 more 7 veterans in Kerr County than what would be typical by the 8 percentage averages. So, in addition to the money Veterans 9 Administration puts out in this county, the money that those 10 veterans have from those through retirement pay, through 11 military retirement pay, or just the fact that they're here, 12 living here, spending their money here, it's an economic plus 13 for this community. And what we hope is that by the addition 14 of up to 100 housing apartments here at the Kerrville V.A., 15 we'll have even more veterans that will be able to come to 16 this area and be able to use the health care services that 17 are provided by the V.A. here. So, I passed out some cards 18 up there. I also have a couple of other members; Bill 19 Cantrell and Vicky Marsh are here this morning. They may 20 address you on the agenda. If we can ever be of any help 21 whatsoever, please feel free to give us a call. Thank you 22 very much. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of the 1-14-13 8 1 public or audience that wishes to be heard on a matter which 2 is not listed as an agenda item? Seeing no one else seeking 3 recognition, we will move on. Commissioner Letz, do you have 4 anything for us this morning? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I think pretty much most 6 of the things I have I'll be addressing during agenda items. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe everything's 9 set up and ready to go out at the stock show, and -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're going to hear about 11 that shortly. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to give us a good 13 report here in a minute, so I'll leave most of that alone, 14 but I think we'll hear plenty about that. That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. You remember last 17 year, the -- the Rotary Club put together a group that 18 honored performance -- gave the performance awards for 19 outstanding First Responder-type folks, Sheriff's Office, 20 Police office, all that. Our group, the First Responders -- 21 the county First Responders, were not included in that last 22 year, but they will be this year. So, that's February the 23 6th at the Inn of the Hills, just like it was last year, so I 24 want to encourage y'all to be there. There's been an 25 outstanding First Responder person been selected, and so 1-14-13 9 1 we'll go and honor that person on behalf of Commissioners 2 Court. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be all. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Moser? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, there's a lot happening 7 in Precinct 2 this week and in the future. The stock show, 8 which we'll talk about. Welding classes begin out at the 9 airport at the Alamo Community College. That's up and 10 running. That was a lot of work to get that in place. 11 There's a town hall meeting next week in Center Point to 12 discuss the wastewater system. That activity's moving along 13 very quickly, and I'll talk more about that later in the 14 agenda. And I guess I want to say I'm sorry I missed the cow 15 chip tossing contest, but I was in Austin, and they -- they 16 were throwing a lot of the same thing there, since the 17 Legislature is in session. (Laughter.) So, I missed a good 18 one, but anyway, that's all I have. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could I -- there's one thing I 21 did forget to mention, if I could interrupt. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to have to work on that 23 memory of yours, Jon. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. I know. There's -- I 25 don't know if a lot of people in Kerrville know, but there's 1-14-13 10 1 a family -- a lot of you probably heard of the Ingenhuett 2 family in Comfort. Marjorie Ingenhuett passed away, and she 3 is -- I believe there's only -- well, there's a few other 4 Ingenhuetts left, but not a whole lot left living in the 5 area; some are disbursed around the U.S.A. The Ingenhuett 6 family has very close ties with the Schreiner family. A lot 7 of business -- they used to own pretty much the entire 8 airport area, and a whole lot of Kerr County. And Marjorie 9 passed away, I believe it was Sunday afternoon. I just 10 wanted to mention that. She had been my grandmother's niece. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me follow up on Commissioner 12 Moser's comment about the training center out at the airport. 13 We have hopes that that's going to be a wonderful ongoing 14 training facility. That's there through the cooperation of 15 both the City and the County. We jointly own that building. 16 Alamo Colleges has been a major player in that, and has made 17 major upgrades to that facility in order that it can be used 18 for that job training. The anticipation is that it won't 19 just be used for welding training; it's whatever's going to 20 be necessary come down the pike at any point in time in the 21 future, that we'll have that facility there available for job 22 training. That's also the anticipation of Alamo Workforce, 23 who is another partner in that whole project. So, my point 24 is that -- that this is a partnership that has been forged to 25 accomplish a mission, and by all accounts, it's going to do 1-14-13 11 1 quite well in accomplishing that mission. 2 Another thing I'd like to mention is the -- the 3 Symphony of the Hills. Some of you are aware that we've had 4 this symphony in existence for -- I don't know, nine, ten 5 years, maybe. I'm not sure exactly, but a number of years. 6 And they had a concert this past Saturday. There was nothing 7 extraordinary about that; the concert was scheduled. What 8 was extraordinary was that the conductor that normally 9 handles that thing, and has been doing so for all these 10 years, his wife had some very, very serious medical problems 11 a couple -- just a couple days before the concert. Well, she 12 was transported to the hospital in San Antonio. They were 13 getting ready, and had family there in anticipation of 14 celebrating a 55th wedding anniversary. Well, instead, now 15 they're all down trying to keep track of her health issues, 16 after having some major, major health issues. Well, we got 17 to have somebody to step in and fill the gap. Well, there 18 was one plan in place that -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no, you didn't -- you 20 weren't the conductor? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course not. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: They didn't get that far down the 24 line, Buster. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Scared me for a 1-14-13 12 1 minute. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There was another principal with the 3 orchestra that -- that had apparently been on tap to take 4 that over, but lo and behold, he got very, very, very ill, 5 apparently the day of the concert. And at 1 p.m. on the day 6 of the concert, another individual, who I'm told is 7 affiliated with the orchestra -- I can't even find him among 8 the -- on the personnel that play there, I couldn't even find 9 his name. His name is Gene Dowdy. He's from U.T.S.A., the 10 music department. Fortunately, he's a director of conducting 11 there. This guy steps in at 7:30 that same evening and takes 12 over this entire performance, did an absolutely extraordinary 13 job. That whole thing was a class, class operation. So -- 14 but that's what made it so extraordinary this past Saturday 15 night, and I think the crowd was most, most appreciative of 16 his efforts in stepping in to do that. So, I just wanted to 17 mention that, give a little plug to the Symphony of the 18 Hills, because they have a great organization, and they do 19 need public support. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: May I add one other thing? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you got, Commissioner? 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Pardon the pun, but something 23 else that was orchestrated out at the airport that I forgot 24 to mention. Revenue's beginning to flow. There's a parking 25 lot that's been added. It was the cooperation of the County 1-14-13 13 1 and the City. Vehicles are in there; they're paying rent, 2 revenue. That will pay for itself. So, as we continue to 3 proceed with those kinds of things where we invest in the 4 things that are meaningful to us, I think that's going to be 5 a really good example. But that was a really good activity 6 of both City and County, putting in a first-class parking lot 7 to get vehicles out of the dirt and out of the pasture and 8 into a protected area. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we ever decide to have 10 some cover? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's the next phase. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If it looks economically 14 feasible to do. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If the -- if the demand for 17 those that have an annual permit to be there -- and I suspect 18 they are going to -- they're going to request it, the kind of 19 people that leave vehicles there. Certainly, they're -- I 20 think they're going to want the vehicles they leave there 21 under cover. And, of course, there will be an appropriate 22 up-charge for -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. If it makes -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for cover. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If it makes financial sense to 1-14-13 14 1 do it, we'll do it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or they'll do it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get on with our agenda. The 5 first item is a 9 o'clock timed item, a report from the Stock 6 Show Association regarding the 2013 stock show. We've got 7 Mr. Bob Reeves here, and I believe Mr. Steve Bauer from the 8 Stock Show Association is here. Good to have you guys here. 9 Looks like y'all got better things to do than hang around 10 here, don't you? 11 MR. REEVES: Well, as you can tell by the weather, 12 it is stock show weather. Cold blew in. Before I begin my 13 report, on behalf of the all of the volunteers and directors 14 of the association, I want to say thank you to each one of 15 you for the new facility. The work that you put in, in faith 16 of the youth of the hill country, we cannot express our 17 gratitude great enough, and I thank you very much for it. I 18 realize Commissioner Oehler and I both had some -- some 19 stressful times, but last Monday when he opened the doors, it 20 started coming to work. If you'd been there Monday 21 afternoon, I don't know -- you had probably 50 or 60 high 22 school kids, mothers, fathers, ag teachers starting to put up 23 pens. The Fritz family sent their entire maintenance crew 24 from Mini-Mart to help. I compliment Sheriff Hierholzer in 25 bringing in the trustees out there. We had the pens ready to 1-14-13 15 1 go. And what I figured would be four or five days was 10 or 2 12 hours, and they were ready to go. Road and Bridge came 3 out there. One young man, former exhibitor, his family owns 4 a business over in Fredericksburg which supplies all of our 5 trophies and awards. He delivered them on Tuesday, and he's 6 showed at every major stock show in the state of Texas, and 7 he summed up the new facility in one word, and that was 8 "wow." So, we're tremendously grateful for all of the 9 support. 10 It doesn't seem like it's been a year since I came 11 to a meeting this stock show week, and Commissioner Letz 12 presented a proposal that if they would build Phase 1, and we 13 could raise a half million dollars, we'd build Phase 2. Our 14 grant committee is working very hard on that. We're actually 15 doing double duty this week, as we have a grant application 16 due tomorrow. So, in between getting ready for the stock 17 show, we're getting the grant application ready. The Hill 18 Country Charity Ball has designated us as their benefactors 19 this year, and they will be out at the show this week 20 promoting Phase 2, so we're very excited about that. In 21 addition to needing to raise that $500,000, with the new 22 facility, we needed new equipment, new pens. And thanks to a 23 foundation that is here today, as well as the Kerrville 24 E.I.C., and that's the Stevens Foundation and the Kerrville 25 E.I.C., we raised $300,000 and have new pens, new arena, new 1-14-13 16 1 bleachers, and we're grateful for all of that. So, we're 2 moving along. 3 Most of the foundations we've applied to had said 4 they wanted to see Phase 1 complete, and then come back to 5 them, and we're ready to come back to them and move forward. 6 The main reason I'm here this morning, gentlemen, is to give 7 you an update of what's going on this week. In a little less 8 than three hours, the first of 2,800 entries will begin to 9 arrive out at the facility. Exhibiting those entries will be 10 1,202 exhibitors. Approximately 75 percent of those 11 exhibitors will be from out of county, and then, naturally, 12 our local youth will be showing those. This -- at lunch 13 today, when they start arriving, will be the ag mechanics 14 projects, and if you haven't taken the opportunity to look at 15 these, these are not your typical woodworking projects. 16 These are entry gates, trailers, restored tractors. They're 17 coming in. Come out there this afternoon and look at them as 18 they off-load them. They'll start judging in the morning at 19 8 o'clock. 20 The first of the animal entries arrive at noon 21 tomorrow. By the end of business tomorrow afternoon, we will 22 award the first of over $14,000 in scholarships. Now, this 23 $14,000 in scholarships is over and above the $40,000 that we 24 give annually at the end of each school year. The breeding 25 sheep arrive tomorrow at noon. Judging begins Wednesday 1-14-13 17 1 morning. And there will be something going on out at the 2 facility until Saturday with their grand finale, and that's 3 their auction. In between that, we will award $24,000 in 4 prize money, $15,000 in trophies, prizes, various items that 5 we'll give away to our winners. And more importantly, it's a 6 family event. Y'all have been out there; you know what goes 7 on. I mentioned that we have 1,202 exhibitors with roughly 8 75 percent or so coming from out of county. And you need to 9 understand, and I'm sure you do, the stock shows are a family 10 affair. Mothers, fathers, little -- little sister, 11 grandparents, they all come out. People with just an 12 interest in the youth and the livestock show come out. 13 We anticipate three to 35 -- 3,000 to 3,500 people 14 at the show on Friday. We have a tremendous group of 15 volunteers who are working. I believe most of you will be 16 announcing during the show. You know, the Commissioners 17 Court and the County Judge announce, and that continues a 18 tradition that was established by Judge Neunhoffer many, many 19 years ago, when we just had a very small facility out there. 20 So, I thank you. I think we'll have a few rookies, the mayor 21 and a few of those coming out, and we thank you for coming 22 out there. And if the veterans would kindly make sure that 23 they're dressed warm and everything. Also, those of you that 24 have the first shift Friday at 7 o'clock, you'll see 25 something a little new this year. I won't go in detail, but 1-14-13 18 1 if you'll be out there, you'll see something new. I think 2 you'll be very proud of how we'll present it this year. 3 I mentioned the auction. Last year, $800,000 -- 4 over $800,000 to our exhibitors. Roughly 600,000 of that 5 goes to our county exhibitors and stays right here at home. 6 The judges will be coming from as far away as Mississippi and 7 Indiana for our district show, our judges. Many have already 8 judged at the major shows, like Houston, San Antonio, and the 9 state fair. In addition, some of the judges coming in, we're 10 kind of the proving ground for the big shows. There'll be 11 representatives from those shows seeing how they handle 12 themselves here, and we'll see them on down the line a little 13 later. If you've got any questions about the show, feel free 14 to ask me. I'll remind you that, like usual, there's a 15 hospitality table upstairs; good barbecue, good hot coffee. 16 And I think we've got a seafood gumbo Thursday after the 17 county show, if you get up there in time. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be there. 19 MR. REEVES: So -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster will probably be there early, 21 camped out. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thursday morning, you say? 23 MR. REEVES: For you? Yes, sir. Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 MR. REEVES: We'll have your name on the chair for 1-14-13 19 1 you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 3 MR. REEVES: If you've got any questions. But, 4 once again, I thank you. We're ready to move forward on 5 Phase 2. Just like I said, the charity ball is going to have 6 us as their benefactor this year. They were proud to support 7 an event like this. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 9 questions for Mr. Reeves? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I just want to say wow. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Great report, Bob. Thank you so 12 much. 13 MR. REEVES: Thank you, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. I know 15 you got plenty to do today. 16 MAYOR PRATT: I may stay a while just so they can't 17 find me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that may be a good 19 thing for you. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You and Steve both. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to our 9:05 timed item, 22 Item Number 2; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 23 action -- let me correct that. The Tax Assessor has asked 24 that this item be passed, so it will be passed. Let's go to 25 our 9:15 timed item, Number 3; consider, discuss, take 1-14-13 20 1 appropriate action to approve small purchase procurement 2 records for Kerr County O.S.S.F. Grant Number 710065 for 3 Round Two applicants. Good morning. 4 MS. PHALAN: Morning. Well, we have part of Round 5 Two. We have five homeowners, and we opened bids previously, 6 and we had the homeowners given the chance to approve the 7 installers within 25 percent of the low bid. They had a 8 choice. And we received those back, and now we just need 9 Commissioners Court to take action to approve the selected 10 installers so we can start construction. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Ms. Phalan? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 16 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's move to 21 Item 4; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 22 approve homeowner for O.S.S.F. assistance at following 23 address as part of the County's 71.00 -- excuse me, 710065 24 O.S.S.F. grant, that being 313 Skyview Drive, Ingram, Texas, 25 78025, located in Westwood Oaks. Yes, ma'am? 1-14-13 21 1 MS. PHALAN: This will be our final applicant for 2 approval, since we have only till April 16th to use up the 3 grant funds, and so this will be number 13, and hopefully 4 this one will get approved through the site evaluation. And 5 we've had, as part of Round One, five, and in Round Two, five 6 again, and then we have two more in site evaluation right 7 now, and this will be the final one, the 13th. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval of the agenda 9 item. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 13 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 18 ma'am. 19 MS. PHALAN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 12; to consider, 21 discuss, take appropriate action to solicit bids or request 22 for proposals for construction and finish out of the 198th 23 District Attorney's office space, which will be approximately 24 1,600 square feet at the Kerr County Sheriff's Office Annex. 25 Gentlemen, I've moved this forward because the District 1-14-13 22 1 Attorney -- he's got a grand jury and pretrial waiting on him 2 up the country, so we're going to get him out of the way so 3 he can get on down the road. Thank you. 4 MR. MONROE: Ready to move forward, ready for 198th 5 to stop being a renter. And we -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You haven't paid yet. 7 MR. MONROE: Pardon? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You haven't paid yet. 9 MR. MONROE: Well, a future player. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't beat the rent, can you? 11 MR. MONROE: Sure can't. So, we're ready to take 12 the next step, and I think that is to get the plans and specs 13 drawn to let out for bids, so that's what we're ready to do. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And we have a proposal before us, as 15 I recall, that has been sitting here for some time. It's, I 16 believe, capped at $5,200 for preparing the bids and 17 overseeing the construction and the whole nine yards; is that 18 right? 19 MR. MONROE: That's correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's capped at that. It could 21 be less. Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And can you go over again where 23 the funds are coming to do the construction? 24 MR. MONROE: Well, we have a line item in our 25 budget right now for professional services, which is where 1-14-13 23 1 this will come from. Depending on what the bids turn out to 2 do, you know -- of course, we've got a couple steps to go 3 before this actually becomes a reality. There are a couple 4 of choices that the office has. We do have some funds 5 available that are somewhat unencumbered. I'm coming to 6 understand that there's no such thing as totally unencumbered 7 funds, but we do have some balance to use. We have some 8 forfeiture money that might be able to be used for this 9 purpose. That will require approval by the committee that 10 oversees the 198th forfeiture funds. Those are being 11 explored. Just first rattle out of the bucket, I'd say it'd 12 probably be a combination of those two, but we just have to 13 look at it and see. But the main thing is to find a home, 14 and to have one that has got a possibility of considerable 15 longevity to it, which this does offer us that. So, that's 16 where we're going. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- and I want to make 18 sure that there's a likelihood -- anyway, that there's enough 19 funding if we're going to go out and spend 5,200, or you're 20 going to spend 5,200. 21 MR. MONROE: We're spending it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know you're spending it, but 23 still, it's -- if the money's going to be spent on a set of 24 plans to go out for bid on, we know the square footage we're 25 working with; we should be able to figure out an approximate 1-14-13 24 1 cost for build-out. I mean, it's not rocket science. Maybe, 2 you know, Peter Lewis can come up with that, or a lot of 3 people could. I just want to make sure that, based on what 4 we expect, that there's money in your budget to build it. 5 I'd hate to spend $5,200 or go out for bid if it's not fairly 6 certain that we have -- or you have the money to do it. If 7 that makes sense. 8 MR. MONROE: Fair question, and I can't answer it. 9 We have a committee member here, if you'd like to pose that 10 to Mr. Hierholzer and see what he thinks they're going to -- 11 the likelihood of approving that. I hesitate to go too much 12 further with that, because if it comes out of forfeiture 13 money, that would require me to go to the committee. There 14 are sufficient funds in that account to do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. MONROE: Subject to their approval. Again, 17 it's not really fair of me to -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, I understand. You can't 19 speak for -- 20 MR. MONROE: -- give you an answer on that today. 21 But the -- from what we reasonably believe the cost to be, 22 there are -- there is sufficient funds to do that, pending 23 approval by those entities. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you have done the first 1-14-13 25 1 order of approximation, so many square foot, so much dollars 2 per square foot, and you've got funds to meet that? 3 MR. MONROE: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I'm with Commissioner 5 Letz; we don't -- it will be a county facility when it's 6 finished. 7 MR. MONROE: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right? And we thank you 9 for that. 10 MR. MONROE: We thank you for the free rent. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We don't want to get 75 12 percent finished, and then all of a sudden, you know, funds 13 aren't there. So, I'm with Commissioner Letz to make sure 14 that we got some margin there to -- to build this thing out 15 with the funds that are available. 16 MR. MONROE: The ability to do it dollars-wise is 17 there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 20 MR. MONROE: The -- again, I cannot commit that 21 money until the oversight committee or whatever they're 22 called -- the forfeiture funds committee, without putting 23 that on their agenda and presenting to them, which is what we 24 plan to do, whether it's in whole or in part. I certainly 25 hope they are receptive to this. There's a lot of positive 1-14-13 26 1 reasons to do this that are economically beneficial to both 2 the County and to the 198th Judicial District, so I really 3 don't think that's a problem, but I'm not prepared to commit 4 them today. But, again, you're welcome to ask those 5 questions of Mr. Hierholzer. I just don't think it's fair 6 that I answer them. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So what we need today is a 8 motion -- I guess, if it's your money, why do we have to 9 approve it? I guess that's my question. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 11 MR. MONROE: We're using your facilities. It's 12 your property. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's already a court 14 order here -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- from the last time we 17 talked about it, subject to the funding. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it seems to me if the 20 funding has come forward, then this court order should move 21 forward. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You don't know the funding's 23 there, though. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, but I'm willing to 25 vote that -- that it is. I am. You don't have to. 1-14-13 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The funding's there. It's just 2 whether it's going to be released for the purpose. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Whether it's going to be 4 sufficient. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But he has money to get 6 started. What he's asking here is to get the bid documents 7 done -- 8 MR. MONROE: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- out of the budget line 10 item, like he says, to get -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And which we control expenditures 12 from. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But if it's -- we have 14 that court order, why do we need to do anything? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true. I'm really 16 asking a question. The court order's already in place, and 17 the verbiage says "subject to funding." And in my mind, I 18 hear funding has come forward, or will, and so to me, this 19 court order is -- are you familiar with the court order? 20 MR. HENNEKE: I am, Commissioner. I mean, I 21 appreciate Mr. Monroe's courtesy on this. Looks like we have 22 a partnership in moving forward. I agree with Commissioner 23 Baldwin as far as the funds for Mr. Lewis to, you know, put 24 together the bid specs. I believe the Court has already 25 approved that back in December, subject to the funds coming 1-14-13 28 1 from the 198th District Attorney's office. Of course, 2 Mr. Monroe is now in office, and he has that $5,200, so I 3 don't believe, assuming that Mr. Lewis' work comes within 4 that $5,200, that there's any further action that this Court 5 needs to take. Now, what I understand is when the RFP goes 6 out and the bids come back in, then there's still a question 7 as to the approval of those funds. And, of course, the 8 committee would have to meet, and we'd come back and award 9 those, and probably need to have a good answer at the time 10 that the RFP responses are due to know, you know, if we can 11 even award a bid or not. But, I think it's great that 12 Mr. Monroe is here to keep us in the loop on this. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So you think there's no need for the 14 Court to issue anything confirming the expenditure of those 15 funds now that they are available at the request of 16 Mr. Monroe? 17 MR. HENNEKE: That's correct, Judge. My 18 understanding is in December, the Court authorized Mr. Lewis 19 to put together a bid package for our building subject to the 20 funds being available to do it. And now -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: November. 22 MR. HENNEKE: November. Now we know that 23 Mr. Monroe has $5,200 in his professional services account, 24 so we can -- we can -- that can be paid for, for that part. 25 And it just still seems that it left -- it's left to be 1-14-13 29 1 determined, then, if the RFP will be awarded if there's money 2 to build it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. While you're here, 4 Mr. Monroe, why don't we go to Item 13; to consider, discuss, 5 take appropriate action to accept your 2012 Tier 1 Partial 6 Exemption Racial Profiling report for the 198th District 7 Attorney's office. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the report? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's under Item 13. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think our only -- the only action 12 that's required on behalf of the Court is merely to accept 13 the report. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. And I move that we 15 do so. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 19 accept the report. Any question or discussion? All in 20 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 25 gentlemen. We'll get you on the road -- 1-14-13 30 1 MR. MONROE: Thank you. May we be excused? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to take care of the other 3 business in your district. 4 MR. MONROE: We have a grand jury in Brady waiting 5 for us this morning. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now let's go to our 9:30 7 timed item, Item 10; to consider, discuss, and take 8 appropriate action to allow use of Flat Rock Lake Park by 9 Leadership Kerr County for 2013 Easter Fest community event. 10 Ms. Lesley Henneke, good to see you here this morning. 11 MS. HENNEKE: Good morning, Judge. Good morning, 12 Commissioners. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 14 MS. HENNEKE: My name's Lesley Henneke. I'm here 15 on behalf of the Leadership Kerr County, Class Number 28, 16 which is a program run by the Chamber of Commerce, as you 17 guys are well aware of. I know there's several alumni in the 18 audience today; there are alumni of the program. And we've 19 been approached by the American Legion to take over their 20 Easter Fest. As us you guys might be aware, Easter Fest is a 21 community-wide event that includes the chili cook-off; 22 there's barbecue, there's an Easter egg hunt on Friday. 23 Everything starts usually about noon in the park. In the 24 past, I should say, the park opened up at noon. The vendors 25 come in, everyone sets up for the cook-off. The cook-off 1-14-13 31 1 begins at around 4 p.m. that evening. Public's open -- it's 2 open to the public. On Saturday morning, there is an Easter 3 egg hunt and more cooking, and it's just open to the public, 4 and it's a good time for all the families and anyone in the 5 community that wants to attend. So, Easter Fest is no longer 6 being hosted this year by the American Legion, and they've 7 asked Leadership Kerr County to come and host it, and so we 8 need your permission to use Flat Rock Lake Park for March 9 29th and March 30th, which is Good Friday and the Saturday 10 before Easter. So, I would ask that you guys consider our 11 request, and if you have any questions, please let me know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you're asking is 13 that instead of the American Legion coming forward to make 14 this request, they've asked y'all to take the event over, and 15 so you're coming forward to make the request. 16 MS. HENNEKE: Yes, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the same conditions? Road 19 closure? Will that be necessary? 20 MS. HENNEKE: I believe so. We're asking for the 21 same conditions that were provided the last -- previous years 22 from the County. I believe it was road closures. I mean, 23 the event's open to the public, but just because of the 24 traffic and the foot traffic, we don't want any potential 25 problems. 1-14-13 32 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And how many years has it gone 2 on in the past? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Long time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Several. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Never been a problem? Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you -- are you talking 9 about Leadership 2013, or is there an alumni group or 10 something like that? 11 MS. HENNEKE: It's funny that you should ask that. 12 One of our projects is to actually create an alumni 13 association, but this project's specifically for the 14 2012-2013 Leadership Kerr County class. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happens next year? I 16 know it's not a fair question, but do y'all have something 17 going on? 18 MS. HENNEKE: I think our -- my understanding is 19 that if this event is a success, which we anticipate it will 20 be, because we've been provided all the information we need 21 to continue it forward, that this will be something that 22 Leadership -- possibly the alumni association, possibly next 23 year's Leadership class -- would want to continue. It's a 24 great community event, and it's also a great fundraising 25 event. 1-14-13 33 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I have no problem 2 with this; it's been a good event in the past. But one of 3 the things that I'd just like to toss out there, for this and 4 other events, to consider next -- every time we do an event 5 at the park, we always have all these issues about security 6 and road closures and all this stuff. Right next to the -- 7 or part of the, actually, Hill Country Youth Exhibit property 8 is the River Star center, and they have lots -- they have 9 restrooms; they've got pavilions. They have a lot of the 10 things that are needed for these events, and I just -- I 11 don't know if anyone's -- if they've ever been approached 12 about what they charge and how that works, but that -- River 13 Star, but I know that they, I'm sure, would be willing to 14 work with people, so I would just toss it out there. That 15 doesn't change the location much, but it's something to look 16 at. This year it's a little bit late to start changing too 17 much, but in the future, it might be a good option to look at 18 River Star for this, and I think the Court should remember it 19 for future events as well. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It might be well if, assuming the 22 Court approves the principle of them doing this event, coming 23 back later so that we can make sure we've got all the details 24 nailed down so that the right hand knows what's the left is 25 doing. 1-14-13 34 1 MS. HENNEKE: Absolutely. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that would be very 3 helpful. 4 MS. HENNEKE: And just for the Court's knowledge, 5 we do -- we will need security, which we will gladly pay for, 6 as well as -- I don't know if there's a possibility for us to 7 reserve the Ag Barn in case there is a rain delay, or because 8 of rain. We wouldn't want to cancel the event. If that's 9 possible, if you would consider that, we'd appreciate that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure got one that's big enough now, 11 don't we? 12 MS. HENNEKE: Yes. Beautiful facility. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have -- 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: We don't have anything in the show 15 barn, so the show barn will be available. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that could be an option if 17 something else doesn't book. Or you need to go ahead and -- 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. I've got to check the dates 19 for the dog show. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- do that for sure. 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: Because they've been approved, but 22 I think they're earlier in the month. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have a problem with 24 that, but -- you know, that we have a facility like that. 25 It's -- you know, at least they wouldn't have to cancel 1-14-13 35 1 because of rain. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hopefully, there will be 4 rain. 5 MR. HENNEKE: We could do -- Judge, we could do a 6 letter agreement with the Chamber. I could ask Cheryl or 7 Jannett to pull the orders; there's a lot of orders for last 8 year on this event. I think, you know, some of the things 9 from last year was waiving the fees for both the park and for 10 the Ag Barn, asking permission to be able to serve alcohol, 11 closing the park to vehicular traffic, being at 10 o'clock in 12 the morning of the event for the rest of the day. And, you 13 know, requiring -- I think it was three on-duty commissioned 14 peace -- off-duty commissioned peace officers as security. 15 So, there was a lot of different phases, and since this is 16 now a Chamber-sponsored event, we could reduce that to 17 writing and come back with something specific that rolls 18 everything in. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes sense to have one court 20 order that handles the whole issue. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, from what we've 23 heard, we're in favor; there's no problems with it. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No problem with the date. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want this court 1-14-13 36 1 order, or do you want to wait and add all the stuff that 2 you -- 3 MR. HENNEKE: I would suggest, as long as the dates 4 are reserved and that's approved by the Court, why don't we 5 bring it back once we have something reduced to writing? 6 Work that out with the Chamber. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We ought to approve the 8 dates. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Subject to the details being 11 brought forward. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 16 to approve the use of Flat Rock Lake Park for the Easter Fest 17 to be sponsored by -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What were the dates? 19 MS. HENNEKE: March 29th and 30th. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Leadership Kerr County. That's 21 March -- 22 MS. HENNEKE: 29th and 30th. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 29th and 30th, which is Good 24 Friday and -- 25 MS. HENNEKE: Saturday after Good Friday. 1-14-13 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, preceding Easter. Subject to 2 working out all the various details with regard to security, 3 traffic, consumption of alcohol, et cetera, which I 4 understand you're going to bring it back to us, hopefully in 5 a composite plan, and so it will allow us to put it in one 6 nice little package. 7 MS. HENNEKE: I'll be happy to work with the County 8 Attorney on this. (Laughter.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect his negotiating position 10 in this particular case is somewhat eroded. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Compromised. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe even nonexistent; I don't 13 know. But, any further question or discussion on the motion? 14 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Thank you, ma'am. 19 Appreciate it. 20 MS. HENNEKE: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was pretty funny right 22 there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see. So, trying to get back 24 to where we were, to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action to establish a committee to assess the 1-14-13 38 1 value of constructing a new exhibition center at Hill Country 2 Youth Event Center. Committee report should be made to the 3 Court by February 25, 2013, and before design or construction 4 begins on a new or modified exhibition center. Commissioner 5 Moser, you've placed this item on the agenda. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I did. Thank you, Judge. I 7 placed this on the agenda because I think the exhibition 8 center is -- is a very important asset for the community. 9 It's used by the youth, but in addition to youth, it's used 10 by a lot of other people in the entire community. It's a 11 very large investment that we're asking to do. And what I'm 12 recommending is, before that investment is made and 13 taxpayers' resources are committed, I think it would be 14 prudent for us to -- it would be prudent and responsible to 15 address why we need it, other than the fact that the -- and 16 we all know that the other one is old. But there are a lot 17 of old buildings in this community, 100-year-old churches and 18 75-year-old houses. And what do we need? Do we need 19 something newer and larger, or smaller? When do we need it? 20 Do we need it right now? And if so, when do we need it? And 21 how is the best way to fund it? There are options on how 22 this could be funded. I know the Stock Show Association has 23 agreed to contribute part of those funds. 24 And to address those questions, what I'm proposing 25 specifically is that we form a committee that would have a 1-14-13 39 1 plan to look at what the proposed facility uses should be and 2 could be, what the potential market is for such events that 3 are not even using that facility right now, and what the 4 competition is from surrounding facilities, both within the 5 city -- within the county and outside the county, and we do 6 have competition in those things. What the projected cash 7 flow is for the facility, the benefits for the facility. And 8 that's not just the -- the financial benefits, but the 9 benefits that are -- that are qualitative, and not 10 quantitative. And then, what are the options for the 11 facility? A proposed new facility? A larger facility? A 12 smaller facility? Or upgrade the existing facility? So, 13 those are some options to look at. And then what are the -- 14 what's the funding sources? Using the funds that we have on 15 the certificate of obligation, possible grants that we could 16 obtain for this, or some public/private partnership? And 17 then identify what the pros and cons of all of those options 18 are. 19 And the other thing that I'm proposing is -- is 20 this committee, I would -- Bruce Oehler -- Commissioner 21 Oehler's been working on the facilities out there for a long 22 time. I would propose that there be co-chairs of this 23 committee of Commissioner Oehler and myself; that we include 24 K.E.D.C., which they've already started looking at it. Jonas 25 Titas, Executive Director, has been looking at what are the 1-14-13 40 1 benefits, the market, and the competition for such a 2 facility. Also, the Kerrville Convention and Visitors 3 Bureau, Mr. McIlvain, has agreed to participate in this. The 4 Hill Country Stock Show Association, Mr. Reeves or someone 5 like that, be part of it, and have somebody from the County 6 Auditor's office look at from it a financial standpoint, be 7 part of that. And then some citizens like Steve King, who's 8 a local business guy, stock show contributor. Phillip 9 Milton, who is a young man who participated in that facility 10 out there, is very activity in the community, and part of a 11 charitable foundation, longtime resident. And another one 12 would be Lamar Smith, who's a longtime resident, an attorney 13 and rancher. And then for this committee to look at all the 14 things I suggested, and come back to the Commissioners Court 15 no later than February 25th with their findings, which would 16 be pros and cons and the benefits thereof for the taxpayers, 17 before we commit the taxpayers' funds to this facility. And 18 that's my recommendation. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, first off, calling 20 Phil Milton a young man? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When he -- I said -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I said he was -- he's been out 24 there from the -- from when he was a young man. He's still 25 young, though. 1-14-13 41 1 MR. MILTON: You're older than me, I believe. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, let's move on to the 3 next... (Laughter.) I'll just tell you up front, I would be 4 negative towards this kind of thing, because it looks like 5 that we're going to study this thing to death. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, we're going to study it 7 for a month. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish. That we're 9 going to study this thing to death, and we never get off high 10 center in doing the thing. And this -- you know, to me, this 11 is not a Chamber of Commerce issue. This whole facility out 12 there is agricultural youth of Kerr County. Bottom line, 13 period. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What percentage is used by 15 youth? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just telling you I'm -- 17 I'm negative, negative toward this study, because it's going 18 to take way too long, way too much energy. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Be finished by February 25th, 20 six weeks. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think I may be able 22 to resolve this quickly. I don't know how long these folks 23 here want to hang around. Is what you've just rattled off 24 out there a motion? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 1-14-13 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second? 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to Item 6; 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize 5 paying for services to help obtain Rights of Entry from 6 property owners that will enable site evaluations and surveys 7 for the Center Point wastewater collection system. Total 8 cost for the services shall not exceed $600. Commissioner 9 Moser, you placed this item on the agenda. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. The Center Point 11 wastewater system, one of first steps in this -- and this 12 project is moving along very rapidly. One of the first steps 13 is to get approval from property owners to have access to 14 their property so surveys can be made and archeological 15 assessments can be conducted. There are probably about 50 16 property owners for which this kind of thing should be 17 obtained to provide the maximum flexibility in how to route 18 the lines. We've obtained about 20 to-date. The next 30 19 will be a little bit more difficult in contacting people. 20 So, what I'm proposing here is doing very similar to what was 21 done in Kerrville South, and that is to have an individual be 22 responsible for contacting these people, and be responsible 23 to pay that person to -- to acquire these approvals for 24 rights of entry. 25 I've talked to the County Attorney about this. 1-14-13 43 1 Commissioner Letz and I, with Jeannie Hargis, met on this 2 subject. We've had a meeting with the citizens -- six or 3 eight of the citizens of Center Point to proceed forward on 4 it. They moved forward, and the next step is to make sure we 5 get this thing off the dime. The schedule by Tetra Tech was 6 to have all of the Rights of Entry in place by the 15th of 7 January, which is tomorrow, so we're not going to have that 8 complete. I don't think that's going to slow the project 9 down any. Our objective is to have all this done within the 10 next week or two. I think that's consistent with their 11 schedule they're moving forward on. And so by -- by entering 12 into this agreement with someone to go out and do the legwork 13 of getting the rest of them for a -- for a price not to 14 exceed $600, I think we can accomplish what we need to do. 15 And I believe that the way this was done in the past, this 16 contract was handled through Tetra Tech. So, what I'm 17 recommending and proposing, and making a motion, is that we 18 allow this to go forward the same way we did it in the past. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Through Tetra Tech, the project 20 engineer? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, through Tetra Tech. But 22 it'll be in -- and help me there, -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis? 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- Mr. Attorney or Ms. Hargis, 25 on just exactly what -- 1-14-13 44 1 MR. HENNEKE: Well, last time -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The contracts we need or how 3 we do that. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioner Moser, are you thinking 5 of the same -- using an employee out of Environmental Health 6 again? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, not an employee. I found 8 a person in Center Point, okay, that -- that is familiar with 9 the community, that is capable of explaining what the 10 objectives are, and so it would not be a county employee. 11 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. In that case, if it's not a 12 county employee, we can contract with them directly. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 MR. HENNEKE: The last time around, really, it was 15 Tetra Tech's responsibility to obtain this. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MR. HENNEKE: And they contracted outside the 18 county time and outside of their scope of duties to have a 19 person who also worked for the county go out there and help. 20 But, really, if we're not talking about using a county 21 employee to obtain this, then we could contract with the 22 person directly. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. Then I make 24 a motion that we -- we take the action to contract directly 25 with an individual to acquire these Rights of Entry 1-14-13 45 1 agreements, and to do it in a very short fashion consistent 2 with the schedule of the Center Point wastewater sewage 3 system. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. That was -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's in an amount not to 8 exceed $600? 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis, this is a 11 reimbursable item under the grant? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the cost of it ultimately 14 would be coming out of the grant proceeds, okay. I think -- 15 I agree with Commissioner Moser on this. This is, I think, 16 the most efficient way to get this done. The feedback that 17 he and I received have been very, very positive. Just a 18 matter of knocking on doors, someone who knows the people, 19 and I think it would be a big plus. I've -- and Commissioner 20 Moser as well. Some of the ones -- probably some of the 21 largest ones, we're already trying to work on ourselves. The 22 two biggest are right outside of Comfort. I visited with 23 those individuals, and we'll figure out that portion of it. 24 It's a long list, but it's very doable. And there's a few of 25 them that are critical; the rest of them are important, but 1-14-13 46 1 not critical to the project. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 4 second. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 5 signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 10 to Item 7; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 11 determine options for Kerr County residents living outside 12 the City of Kerrville to have use of Butt-Holdsworth Memorial 13 Library services without individually paying annual or use 14 fees. Commissioner Moser, you asked that this item be placed 15 on the agenda. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I thank you, Judge, and I'm 17 going to rattle on a bit more -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- on another item. And this 20 item is to discuss the situation we have regarding the 21 pending charges by county residents living outside the city 22 having to pay for use of the library. I've heard from a 23 number of citizens, as probably all of us have, which have 24 very, very strong feelings about having to pay for the use of 25 the library services. These people have cited personal 1-14-13 47 1 experiences that have enabled them -- where they, in their 2 youth, have used the library at no charge, which enabled them 3 to get an education. It was a catalyst for them getting an 4 education, and to achieve where they are in their 5 professional life, and they would like for us to look very, 6 very hard at how they might -- we might keep this free, 7 quote, unquote, library use and not have that privilege taken 8 away. 9 A little bit of the statistics on this. There 10 probably are approximately 3,200 library patrons that live 11 outside of the city that use the library or have library 12 cards. Of that, approximately 1,300 -- we're talking about 13 youth today; approximately 1,300 are under the age of 18 that 14 are patrons, and as best we can estimate, there's probably 15 like about 300 youth under 18 that use that library every 16 month. Now, some of these people will not be able to afford 17 it. I don't know what percentage, but a significant number 18 of them will be, I would think. So, I would hope that we, as 19 a body, can carefully consider all options before these fees 20 go into effect, which is I think supposed to be somewhere 21 around the 1st of February. And some of the options to 22 consider is to have additional discussions with the City and 23 see what other options may be available as far as the cost 24 sharing, maybe looking at the budget and see if there's any 25 prioritization that we can do to accommodate these charges. 1-14-13 48 1 And I think there can be funding from outside sources to 2 support us in this endeavor. So, I make the motion that -- 3 that we consider these and other options, and then revisit 4 this subject at our meeting in two weeks. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've made a motion that we 6 consider options for -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- our citizens who reside outside 9 the city of Kerrville, our constituents, -- 10 MR. HENNEKE: Judge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to have use of the library. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you say -- can someone read 13 back the motion again? Kathy, can you read back the motion, 14 please? 15 (The motion was read back as follows: "So, I make the motion that we consider these and other 16 options, and then revisit this subject at our meeting in two weeks.") 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second the motion. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Now, 21 question or discussion? First off, we've got a number of -- 22 of folks who have come here today to talk on the issues. 23 Generally, they've described it as library funding, so forth, 24 so I don't want to deny them the opportunity -- that while it 25 may not be directly relevant to the motion as it's now before 1-14-13 49 1 the Court, I want to give them the opportunity to be heard 2 today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I make a comment 4 before you go -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You surely may. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that -- you 7 know, I've been very involved with this whole topic for a 8 long, long time. In, like, 2008 -- I don't want to go back 9 into history a whole lot, but in 2008, we entered into an 10 interlocal agreement with the City, and part of that 11 agreement was that in three years, which was 2011, the City 12 (sic) would no longer be funding anything at the library. 13 That was the deal. Then, due to the City canceling a whole 14 lot of interlocal agreements, that this issue was looked at 15 again in 2011. And in 2011, there was never any discussion 16 from the County to fund any portion of the library. So, this 17 issue has been settled in 2008, from my standpoint. In 2012, 18 the Cailloux Foundation, because of the budget situation 19 overall, and it really wasn't directly related to the 20 library, offered $200,000; they gave it to the County, and 21 then conditionally, we gave it to the City for the library. 22 We did that. 23 There were some issues with that. I'm not going to 24 go in detail of what the issues are. You can talk to the 25 Cailloux Foundation if you want to. That grant was not 1-14-13 50 1 renewed. So, where we are today is nothing new. The City 2 was fully aware of this since 2008, and should have planned. 3 And how we got there in 2008 was because for many years, we 4 asked to have input into the operations at the library if we 5 were going to fund half of it, and we were told no, no, no by 6 the City every step of the way. And we said we do not think 7 it is proper, or probably legal, for us to dedicate public 8 tax dollars to an entity, not the county, that we have no say 9 how those funds are being spent. And that's how we got do 10 where we are. So, I'm glad to listen to people. I'm 11 hopefully, you know, willing to try to work something out to 12 help this situation, but it's not like this happened all of a 13 sudden. This started in the early 2000's. It came to kind 14 of a final plan in 2008. It got us where we are today, and 15 now it's just finally -- you know, what was decided has been 16 implemented. 17 And as recently as November -- December 4th this 18 year, I met with the City Manager and the Mayor both present 19 when they decided to do this plan, and I said, "Why don't you 20 come and talk to us one more time?" You know, I said, "I'm 21 not opposed to funding." We never heard anything officially 22 from the City. And I asked them also, I said, "Why don't you 23 delay implementing this plan?" They said no. So, I mean, 24 you know, I know that the library has been handing out all of 25 our names, telling people to call us. I suggest that the 1-14-13 51 1 library hand out the names of City Council, and talk to them, 2 because they're the ones that set this in place, not the 3 County. Okay. 4 MAYOR PRATT: Just for the record -- may I say 5 something for the record? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sir? 7 MAYOR PRATT: It was the Library Advisory Board 8 that you met with, not the City Manager or the Mayor. We 9 were in the audience. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I talked to you outside in 11 the foyer, I believe. 12 MAYOR PRATT: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, it's amazing when 14 something's free for so long, and suddenly it's no longer 15 free, then there are lots of complaints. The -- I've got a 16 number of participants here. I assume that as the line has 17 formed, why, you're the folks who have filled out 18 participation forms? 19 MS. SWANSON: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll come forward and give us 21 your name and address, and give us your brief comments, if 22 you would, please. 23 MS. SWANSON: Good morning. My name is Nancy 24 Swanson, and I'm a parent of a graduate student from K.I.S.D. 25 who also attended Center Point schools. I'm also currently, 1-14-13 52 1 and have been since my daughter was in preschool, a volunteer 2 in all the schools -- both school districts she's been in. 3 I, first of all, want to thank Commissioner Moser for putting 4 this item on the agenda. Commissioners, thank you for that. 5 I'm here not to advocate for my children. They're all grown 6 up. They're off -- the last one's off to college. I'm here 7 to advocate for the kids that don't have a voice in this 8 county, in the city, in the area; specifically, the 9 underprivileged kids of our area. Those are the kids that I 10 think will be impacted most greatly by the fact of paying 11 some sort of fee to use the library. 12 In my experience working with the kids directly as 13 a sub, and in all different capacities throughout my 14 volunteer work with the school district, those children don't 15 even have money oftentimes for meals, let alone to pay a 16 library fee. And their greatest hope of moving forward 17 successfully in life is to have the opportunity to get an 18 education, and in order to do that these days, not only do 19 you need books, but you need computers. And they don't have 20 computers; they don't have access to computers. They don't 21 have family members that are interested in spending money on 22 that, or can. And for those children, I feel that they will 23 have -- what has changed within the library fees will have 24 the greatest impact on them. And I do understand the 25 position of the County, but I hope that Commissioners can 1-14-13 53 1 find some way to be able to provide for maybe a student with 2 a valid school ID, free access to use the library. Because I 3 have spent many, many evenings in the library with my 4 daughter before she could drive, and have I seen students 5 working at the computers, and on books doing their homework, 6 and a lot of those kids don't have another way to use a 7 computer and do their schoolwork. And I think it's also 8 beneficial to the county, because the more we help our youth 9 grow into productive citizens, the less of a burden it puts 10 on the county in the future. So, thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 13 MR. CONLEY: Thank you. I'm Alan Conley, 231 Cave 14 Springs Drive, Hunt, Texas. Excuse me. I'm a 25-year 15 resident of Kerr County. The first three years were in a 16 rent home in the city of Kerrville, the last 22 years living 17 in my own home, purchased, and paying taxes in Hunt, Texas. 18 I'm here -- I was hoping that you all would reconsider your 19 original action, but I see that's not happening, so I won't 20 discuss that. I am concerned for Items 7, 8, and 9 in this 21 series, relating to much of what Ms. Swanson just spoke to 22 you about. I very much support and agree with what she's 23 saying. And it seems like there are a number of options, one 24 of which would be for the City to merely bill you for each 25 applicant who came from the county to apply, and the bill 1-14-13 54 1 would come directly to you all to pay. That would be one 2 possibility that maybe you've not considered. Might be 3 interesting to see how much that would actually produce. 4 I know in the past, that you have given some tax 5 money to support the library, and so the implication that you 6 could not give money or shouldn't give money to anything you 7 don't have any control over apparently was not in 8 consideration at that time, because I don't think that has 9 changed, apparently. But I am concerned very much for the 10 very fact that what, basically, you're doing here is cutting 11 off, which may or may not have been your intention, your very 12 own people from the use of a library that has been available 13 in our community and in our county for many, many years. And 14 I'm sure that the Butt-Holdsworth family did not intend for a 15 highly limited use for just the city. I don't know the 16 charter of the library, but it would seem to me that to -- to 17 assume that you're going to try to find funds from outside, 18 when, in fact, this is legitimately an activity for all the 19 taxpayers of Kerr County, it seems to me. 20 And I'm sorry for the ongoing and long-term 21 arguments between you all and the City Council. I realize we 22 read in the paper all the time, each side says the other side 23 is bad guys, and I don't know which is which. Would the bad 24 guys holds up your hand? You're not in here; must be those 25 other guys. So, the point is -- is that we are -- the 1-14-13 55 1 citizens are taxpayers. I've been paying taxes a long time 2 in the county, and it seems to me quite appropriate that tax 3 money be used for this, and in some way or another, you might 4 be able to figure out how to do that. Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 6 MS. PARKER: Hello. My name is Jan Parker, and I 7 live at 152 Bearskin Trail, and I am concerned about the 8 possible fee -- and have I received my letter, so I know 9 that's in the works, but the fee to county residents to use 10 the Butt-Holdsworth Library. There are some things that, as 11 citizens, we pay for with our taxes. And, of course, taxes 12 are very important, that are for the public good. And it may 13 be something we're paying for that we never actually use 14 ourselves, such as public schools or the fire service. You 15 know, you may not personally ever have to have that fire 16 truck come to your property, or the ambulance service, that 17 hopefully you never have to use that ambulance. But you 18 know, as a citizen, that you want to pay for that because you 19 care about your community, and you might need it yourself. I 20 think of the public school being in that category, and also 21 think of the public library -- the library being in that 22 category. 23 There are many people that benefit from the 24 library. One cold December -- last December, I went to the 25 library at 10:00 in the morning, a Monday morning, just to 1-14-13 56 1 observe. And I -- and I have a card and I check out books; 2 my husband checks out books, my mom. We all check out books. 3 But I -- just to observe. There was much activity in the 4 library. Every five minutes or so, someone was coming in the 5 door or going out the door. Every computer station had 6 someone at the computers. And, yes, sometimes people do play 7 games, but part of the library is for relaxation and 8 recreation. But other people, I felt like, were looking for 9 jobs online. There are over 20 newspapers that are in the 10 public library of all the surrounding counties; the Kerrville 11 Daily Times, the Houston Chronicle, the Austin 12 American-Statesman. I think what tremendous resources these 13 are for people. 14 There are numerous magazines on every topic you can 15 imagine. There are thousands of books in there that you 16 could learn how to repair your car, learn to garden. You can 17 read about health and safety and -- and recreation. This is 18 a wonderful facility for our county residents to educate 19 themselves, to, you know, become better citizens, and yes, to 20 just relax in a safe -- it's a beautiful facility. I know 21 y'all all know that, so we have this wonderful, beautiful, 22 safe facility that many people of all ages are using. There 23 are books on tape for older residents who can't read to 24 themselves any more. There are DVD's there. You can use 25 your own laptop there; I saw people doing that. So -- 1-14-13 57 1 there's a young adult room, and it was a school day, so I was 2 hoping -- and I'm a former teacher from Ingram school 3 district, taught there nine years very proudly, and so I was 4 hoping I wouldn't see a lot of little children in the -- you 5 know, in the kids' room, 'cause I would be thinking, why 6 aren't you in school? But there were four young adults, and 7 I would guess they were maybe 17, 16. They were in there 8 quietly using the computer and looking at books or magazines. 9 And I thought, this is a wonderful place for people to be. 10 And you may not need to use it. You know, you 11 probably have a home that has -- you can have a computer. 12 You can have your own library. You can, you know, have those 13 same things as the library gives to people who do not have 14 that, and that may need it. And they may be looking for a 15 job. They may be there trying to educate themselves. And 16 then there's a staff that can help answer all these questions 17 of things that you need to know. So, I would -- I know you 18 have difficult choices. I know you have to look at a budget, 19 and I don't know all the budget process. I did read in the 20 Kerrville Daily Times that 40 percent of the library users 21 are from the county, so these county residents have been 22 paying county taxes; some for, you know, their whole lives 23 here. And also I read that the amount of money, $200,000, 24 which is not a small sum, but that represented about 1 25 percent of the county budget. 1-14-13 58 1 So, I also think to the past, that you have 2 supported the library greatly, so we have invested -- as 3 county people, we've invested a lot of money already in that 4 library. It's partly our library, so it's unfortunate that 5 the City will not allow the County to have a say in what's 6 happening at the -- I think that's a very valid point, that 7 the County should have a say in what's happening in their -- 8 in their library, because you have already put a lot of money 9 into it. So, I would just ask that you consider these 10 things. I do -- I agree with the first speaker. The people 11 that will be hurt so much are the -- there are people that 12 can't afford all these nice things that the library offers, 13 and -- and they're the people that need our help the most. 14 Thank you very much. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other individual in the 18 public or audience that has not filed a participation form 19 that wishes to be heard on this particular item? If you'll 20 come forward, give us your name and address, and give us your 21 brief comments, please. 22 MS. COLLINS: I'm Sherry Collins, and I live at 261 23 Red Bird Loop, which is in Center Point. I have been 24 impressed while I've been sitting here at all of the 25 agreements that have been reached between the County, the 1-14-13 59 1 City, and other outside organizations to come to some 2 agreement to get something done. I understand the problems 3 that you're facing. I'm hoping that there can be a committee 4 composed of Commissioners Court, the City people and the 5 library, to perhaps solve these issues, come to an agreement. 6 If there is some way that we can have input into the library, 7 why can't we? Why doesn't the library want this? Let's see 8 if we can't come together on this, as we have come together 9 on all of the other issues that we've been talking about 10 today. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else? Yes, ma'am? 15 MS. MARSH: Good morning, Judge, Commissioners. 16 I'm Vicky Marsh, Colonel, U.S. Marine Corps, retired, and I 17 live at 144 Tall Timber Road out in the county. And it's not 18 a problem for me to pay the dues, but I am concerned because 19 at last week's City Council meeting, Jim Price from Family 20 Endeavors got up to speak to the issue of veterans not being 21 able to -- that live in the county needing the computers that 22 are available at the city library to make applications for 23 employment. I just read last week in VAnguard magazine, 24 which is a publication by the Department of Veterans Affairs 25 for its employees, the unemployment rate for veterans in the 1-14-13 60 1 ages of 18 to 24 is 32.2 percent, as compared to non-veterans 2 in the same group, 15.8 percent. It drops down a little bit 3 more for the 24 to 34 group, but it's still significant. 4 And, regrettably, Jim could not be here this morning, but I 5 want to make a pitch for our veterans for reduced 6 scholarship. We need some help somehow. I hate to see the 7 residents and our underprivileged -- I was at the library on 8 Saturday, and I saw all 16 computers in use, predominantly by 9 black and Hispanic youngsters under the age of 20. So, I 10 would appreciate whatever y'all can do to help us out. And I 11 hate to see the residents held hostage between a disagreement 12 between our County and City officials, who seem to agree on 13 some things. So, I thank you for that consideration. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else? Let me briefly address 17 Colonel Marsh's -- the residents being held hostage. We're 18 not holding anybody hostage. The City of Kerrville, who owns 19 and operates that library in its entirety, has the ability to 20 set up policies of granting waivers for groups or individuals 21 based upon their individual circumstances. They certainly 22 have that ability to do that. So we can't -- we're unable to 23 hold anybody hostage in this thing. 24 MS. MARSH: Maybe that was an unfortunate choice of 25 words. 1-14-13 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe so. But -- 2 MS. MARSH: Caught in the crossfire. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as acknowledged by a lady here 4 earlier, I'd like to know if anybody in this room has signed 5 on as a financial partner in a business that you had 6 absolutely no control over the operation or ownership in its 7 assets. Anybody do that here? Would you? That's one of the 8 problems we've got. You know, Commissioner Moser, I asked 9 one of your constituents this just the other evening, and 10 this lady has been very, very active in local politics for 11 more than 20 years I've known her. She's a rock solid 12 conservative, or so I thought, active in Republican politics, 13 and opposed to all sorts of government subsidies. And it 14 seems to me that what happens here is, as long as it's free, 15 that the government's providing it, everybody's complacent. 16 But as soon as it's not free, oops, and the shoe pinches, you 17 scream. 18 Now, my personal feeling is user fees should be 19 utilized wherever practical. And I think this is one of 20 those incidents. This is not a service of government that's 21 absolutely essential and provided only by government, such as 22 law enforcement, fire protection, things of that nature. 23 Library, you've got other providers. You've got 24 universities, schools. You have -- you have internet service 25 providers. You've got other sources for this information, so 1-14-13 62 1 I don't think you can put them all in the same category. 2 Frankly, I think part of the mess we have in Washington today 3 is because we've decided as a national government, I presume, 4 to provide all these so-called free services to our 5 constituents. And why do we do that? Ask the guys in 6 Washington. But in case you haven't figured it out, it's to 7 get votes. Well, the -- the getting votes has got us in a 8 mess. 9 I think -- I think the library -- and this is very 10 common in municipalities -- ought to charge everybody. And 11 that will accomplish two things. Number one, I think they do 12 charge just visitors to the city that come in from, say, 13 Idaho, or come in from the north, tourists, maybe prospective 14 business people that come in. If we're going to let anybody 15 go for free, it ought to be them, because that gives a good 16 impression of our community. But I think all the folks that 17 regularly use that library ought to be charged a fee. Number 18 one, I think it would underwrite at the base. Number two, 19 it's a user fee, and it's being paid by those that use the 20 facility. And number three, I think it would make the whole 21 staff and the operation of that facility more accountable, 22 for the very reason that you're here today. 23 As long as it's free, everybody just rides along. 24 As soon as it's not, if you got any complaints, you'll step 25 forward, 'cause you're paying for something, so you'll speak 1-14-13 63 1 up about it. I've had complaints from people who reside in 2 the city. You know, they say, "Well, I don't like the 3 bookless library that's going on over there," or I don't like 4 this or I don't like that. Don't tell me about it. I've got 5 no control. I put these other two issues on the agenda. 6 We're going to air those out in a little bit. But the point 7 is, if you're paying for something, you'll have control over 8 it, and it makes the accountability of those providing that 9 service greater in the final analysis. So, I'm all for user 10 fees. We've talked about that. I think the last election 11 showed that this county was 83 percent, maybe, conservative. 12 I think that's one of the principles of conservatism. To the 13 extent it can be a user fee, that's what it ought to be. 14 Maybe if we start going this other direction, maybe we'll 15 start walking our way out of this mess. Okay, it's the rest 16 of you gentlemen's time. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, the motion that was made 18 and seconded was to look at options, and see if there are 19 options. And that's what it was, pure and simple. I think 20 every problem has got a solution. I think this problem has 21 probably got a solution. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, Commissioner, I don't 23 think it's a solution that we can craft. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't know. We haven't 25 looked at the options. 1-14-13 64 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We ought to look at them. 3 That's what -- that's what the motion was, and seconded. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- and I, you know, 5 want -- and I agree with the mayor; my conversation with him 6 was not at a public meeting; it was private, between he and 7 the City Manager and myself, and Mark Armstrong might have 8 been -- he was there for part of that conversation. But it 9 was a -- you know, I'm willing to talk to the City about the 10 options, you know, but it is their library, and it's their 11 decision ultimately how they're going to run things. You 12 know, I've always been a supporter of the library. I don't 13 mind spending -- you know, trying to figure out a solution 14 here. But I think the ball is more in the City's court than 15 the County's. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the other thing is, 17 this is -- this is -- we've started a new budget year, and 18 there aren't -- there were not funds allocated for that 19 purpose. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so it's kind of hard 22 right now, just starting the budget year, just to all of a 23 sudden manufacture some funds from someplace to all of a 24 sudden just fund that. You know, I'm all for finding a 25 solution that will be, you know, somewhat amiable to the ones 1-14-13 65 1 that are most affected, but it's a matter of timing. When 2 can you -- when can you really do something about it? You 3 know, if you can convince the City to do something for -- 4 until the next budget year, and have time to come up with 5 maybe a different way of doing things, or a solution, then I 6 think that's viable. But if you don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. The three options I 8 suggested was, number one, talk with the City. And 9 Commissioner Letz and I talked about that. See if there's 10 any flexibility -- number two, see if there's any flexibility 11 at all in the budget. There probably isn't, but we ought to 12 look at it. Number three, see if there's any outside -- any 13 outside funding that could help this situation. So, those 14 are the three options. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The outside funding was -- 16 was, to my understanding, supposed to be there, and it did 17 not happen. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There are multiple sources of 19 outside funding. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. But, I mean, the 21 one -- you know the one I'm talking about, and I don't know 22 why that didn't happen. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't either. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so maybe that's one of 25 the things you go look for. 1-14-13 66 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To get that funding re -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or some sort -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- reestablished, or another 5 source of funding. But as far as the County goes, and in a 6 budget year, we can't -- we don't have that kind of money 7 that's just sitting around that we can just reallocate to 8 this. That should have been -- if it was going to be funded, 9 it should have been at budget time. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll, we've got a motion and a 11 second. Let's try and move this thing along. Do we have 12 anything else relevant to the motion to go with it? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (Commissioners Moser, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (Commissioner Baldwin voted against the motion.) 17 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, we've got a 19 10 o'clock timed item that we blew by, so we've got to go 20 pick that up. Item 16, the presentation of the Flood 21 Mitigation Petition form from residents of the Comfort area, 22 and possible discussion. Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I put this on the agenda. 24 There's -- I think the Court's aware of it; I've talked about 25 it several times. In Comfort, there's some new FEMA maps. 1-14-13 67 1 Comfort has a bit of a flooding problem, and any correction 2 to that problem is going to likely have to be in Kerr County, 3 because it's coming from Cypress Creek and North Creek, 4 especially Cypress Creek. But, anyway, a large group of 5 citizens got together; they asked if they could come present 6 a petition to us to show how important it is to that area, 7 and I said certainly. And I'll turn it over to Mr. Flatten 8 and Mr. Spence. 9 MR. FLATTEN: I've got my public participation 10 form. I'm not sure who the clerk is here. Seems like you're 11 overqualified to be the clerk. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I end up with it anyway. Thank you, 13 sir. Don't assume that. 14 MR. FLATTEN: I would like to thank the 15 Commissioners and Judge Tinley for their time and their 16 consideration. I'm here -- my name is Emmanuel Flatten; I'm 17 here from Comfort Floodplain Coalition, a grassroots 18 organization consisting of citizens. We have no formal 19 membership, but our response has been quite positive, and 20 numerous folks have -- have shown their support by attending 21 our meetings and signing this petition. We have here a 22 petition which I'll present to you momentarily with 349 23 signatures. We're constantly garnering more, so the number 24 is actually greater, but we can't afford a photocopy every 25 time we get another signature. I'll begin by reading the 1-14-13 68 1 petition itself. 2 We, the undersigned citizens of Kerr and Kendall 3 Counties, having been impacted by repetitive flooding within 4 the Guadalupe River Basin, hereby petition the leaders of 5 Kerr and Kendall County to first study, then facilitate 6 mitigation as deemed necessary by these studies. The 7 communities of Comfort, Waring, Sisterdale, Bergheim, Spring 8 Branch, and Canyon Lake having sustained numerous floods in 9 recent history, along with loss of life and property, have 10 recognized the need for structural mitigations such as flood 11 control dams on tributaries of the Guadalupe River. In order 12 to protect the health, safety, and welfare of these 13 residents, it is imperative that the counties coordinate 14 their efforts to maximize the effectiveness of flood 15 mitigation activities undertaken. In addition to flood 16 control, this study should consider the benefits of these 17 flood mitigation activities that they may have for water 18 quality and enhancement and water availability within this 19 segment of the Guadalupe River. Now, therefore, we, the 20 undersigned, petition the Commissioners Court of both Kerr 21 and Kendall County to advocate for support and participate in 22 all aspects of flood control studies, mitigation, and water 23 enhancement projects along this segment of the Guadalupe 24 River Basin. Further, we hereby respectfully request that 25 these studies be implemented as quickly as possible. 1-14-13 69 1 So, that's the -- the request signed in this 2 petition. We understand that since then, there have been 3 efforts to create an A.S.R., or aquifer storage and recovery 4 system, or at least begin the process of studying such a 5 solution. Now, this will obviously increase our water 6 supply, which we know is in dire need of attention. In my 7 handout here -- which I'll present to the clerk, I suppose? 8 Here you are, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 10 MR. FLATTEN: We lay out some of the studies -- or 11 one of the studies done by AECOM, a large engineering firm, 12 which resulted in showing western Kendall County at a 36 13 percent deficit in needs of water supply. So, this is not 14 just within Kendall County. Similar shortages are shown in 15 the entire area. So, we agree that some type of water -- 16 surface water resource is necessary. So, we commend the 17 Commissioners Court of Kerr County and Kendall County, as 18 well as the other signators of the memorandum of 19 understanding, M.O.U., for moving forward on this project. 20 We see that in -- in other areas, multipurpose structures are 21 often built, structures that not only serve for surface water 22 retention or aquifer reclamation, but inherently, any time 23 you hold back water, you are improving the flood situation 24 downstream. 25 Flooding is not a city-wide, a neighborhood-wide, a 1-14-13 70 1 county-wide issue. It's regional by nature. Anything you do 2 at the headwaters benefits or affects everyone downstream. 3 So, having the counties and various municipal organizations 4 working together is very exciting and encouraging for us, and 5 we're asking that not only do we look into surface water 6 resources, but also the benefits of flood mitigation that can 7 be combined with this. Now, I'd like to formally thank 8 Commissioner Jonathan Letz for his attention to -- to our 9 organization, and the members of our organization. He's come 10 and given us a wealth of information. Our understanding from 11 last Saturday's meeting a couple of days ago is that in this 12 stage of seeking study grants and funding, you cannot combine 13 the two benefits of water resource for industrial and 14 personal use with flood mitigation. Now, in the past, that 15 has been a goal or a benefit. We're very surprised that that 16 has changed. So, we encourage at whatever stage you can 17 merge these two benefits, that that is taken into account and 18 -- and done. 19 Just to briefly look over the handout that I handed 20 forward, flood control structures work well. We have over 21 2,000 dams in Texas. And whether you call them dams or flood 22 mitigation structures or A.S.R.'s, they basically hold water 23 when we are in surplus, and release water when we're in 24 deficit, right? Rather than have a water supply that's like 25 an ocean wave, we have -- we mediate or moderate that -- that 1-14-13 71 1 resource. Having over 2,000 of these, we know they work 2 well. According to a 2002 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers 3 report, between 1991 and 2000, nine years, flood damages 4 totaled $45 billion. Considerable amount. But a further 5 $208 billion in damages were averted entirely by the A.C.E. 6 flood control projects, those Corps of Engineers projects. 7 Between 1940 and 2000, 60 years, the Army Corps of Engineers 8 spent 100 billion on flood control. So, in nine years, we 9 more than covered our investment of the past 60 years. So, 10 we know they work. The numbers -- the numbers are there. 11 And by the sheer number of them in Texas, we know they work. 12 And all the way upstream of Comfort, I don't know 13 of a single flood control structure on Cypress Creek. I 14 could be wrong, but it's overdue. It's been a difficult 15 thing to do in the past, and folks have tried. But Comfort 16 is in an interesting situation. We're not incorporated, so 17 we have no gathered voice inherently locally. Also, we're 18 right on the county line, so anything to be done in our -- to 19 benefit our community has to be done in your county, and 20 that's why we're here before you today. In 1984, there was a 21 pre-application study done to determine the feasibility of 22 assistance for the Cypress Creek, and we received this from, 23 I believe, the Soil and Water Conservation District here in 24 Kerr County, and they proposed four different structures. 25 One of the structures showed a cost benefit ratio of .78 to 1-14-13 72 1 1, which is very, very close to the one-to-one needed at the 2 time. I know that things have changed a little bit since 3 then, but very, very close. Recently, there was a dam 4 completed on the dry Comal Creek, and it received a .49 to 1 5 cost benefit ratio, yet now they have that flood control 6 structure. So, it seems that we were so close before, just 7 with a preliminary study, and I'm sure that the 178 homes 8 taken into account now, there would be a lot more homes in 9 that study, therefore showing a greater cost benefit ratio if 10 we were to move forward on something like that. 11 MR. SPENCE: Ask for questions. 12 MR. FLATTEN: If Steve has nothing to add 13 currently, I'd like to open it up to questions from the 14 Court. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 16 questions for these gentlemen? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So this is for Cypress Creek 18 only? 19 MR. SPENCE: Not necessarily. North Creek also 20 contributes to flooding in Comfort, as, of course, does the 21 Guadalupe River. But the Guadalupe River, we understand, is 22 off-limits. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The Guadalupe River is 24 off-limits? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: G.B.R.A. 1-14-13 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, primarily because it's -- 2 when I visited with them, and from what I understand, trying 3 to do any kind of a flood -- any structure on Guadalupe River 4 almost cannot be done, just because of the -- you'll have to 5 get every water rights owner downstream on board, and the 6 likelihood of that happening is very, very slim. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's not true for 8 Cypress Creek? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cypress Creek's -- it's a 10 tributary, but it's a lot less -- it's probably easier to do 11 something in Cypress Creek or North Creek. 12 MR. FLATTEN: Our flooding issues occur when both 13 Cypress Creek and the Guadalupe flooding are combined. 14 Solving one issue or the other, one of -- one of either 15 watercourse will greatly benefit the area. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause the Guadalupe holds 17 back -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 19 MR. FLATTEN: Cypress can't drain. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, the thing that's 21 specifically being requested is -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really, at this point, it's 23 just a petition to know -- I think it's for us to be aware of 24 the problem. The solution is really being -- at the present 25 time, anyway, Kendall County is kind of in the driver's seat 1-14-13 74 1 on it. They are looking at various grants, feasibility 2 studies. And I have told them that, you know, we would 3 certainly be interested in supporting them on those 4 endeavors. It's much more of a Kendall County issue, though 5 the solution is going to be in Kerr County. I think that we, 6 you know, certainly would work with them. If Comfort does 7 become incorporated, it will be both incorporated in Kerr and 8 Kendall County, so it's going to be -- you know, that could 9 happen down the road. Hopefully it will. So, I think this 10 is kind of just more of an informational item to keep it on 11 our forefront. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there are grants that we're 14 looking at. There was a grant that was due -- or the 15 deadline was the end of -- or the 20th of January, but it was 16 a 50-50 match, and Kendall County didn't have any money 17 budgeted for it. And, obviously, we didn't. And so they -- 18 they couldn't go forward on that grant. They're looking at 19 some other -- for next year, they're planning on putting 20 money, hopefully, in Kendall County's budget, according to 21 Commissioner Rusch, you know, to proceed with these grants, 22 'cause some of them -- they all are have some sort of county 23 contribution. Anyway, thank y'all. 24 MR. SPENCE: Thank you very much, and here's the 25 petition. 1-14-13 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And we'll accept your petition, sir. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. SPENCE: And we're grateful for your attention. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're going to take up our 6 other 10 o'clock item before we take our break. That will be 7 Item 17; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 8 accept an audit report for Justice of the Peace, Precincts 1 9 and 3. 10 MS. HARGIS: Good morning, gentlemen. This 11 morning, we have two audits in front of you, one for J.P. 1 12 and one for J.P. 3. These audits were performed by 13 Mr. Robles and Ms. Doss. They were clean audits. The clerks 14 were very efficient, did their work very productively, and 15 I'd like to recognize both of those clerks this morning. 16 We've got Elsa here, and Missy -- Misty. If they would stand 17 up? I want to -- I want to say thank you to them for doing 18 such a good job and being so efficient. And they're 19 employees of the County; they work very hard. They're 20 one-girl offices. And I think that once in a while, we need 21 to recognize the good parts that we -- that we find, so I'd 22 like to give them a round of applause. 23 (Applause.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We always seem to be able to point 25 out the bad, but sometimes we don't recognize the good. 1-14-13 76 1 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have the biggest 3 challenges. 4 MS. HARGIS: They do. They do. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Isn't that right, Buster? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ha, ha. No comment. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that the audit 8 reports be accepted? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 acceptance of the audit reports. Question or discussion? 14 All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's quickly get 19 Item 20, our 10:30 timed item also, the introduction of Laura 20 Broyles from NRCS Kerrville office, and welcome her to Kerr 21 County. Commissioner Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I end up spending a lot 23 of time over at the NRCS office, and I don't think y'all even 24 knew that we have gone through someone after Joe Franklin 25 hardly, but anyway, we do. We had -- Wayne was here for a 1-14-13 77 1 while. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: NRCS is what? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: National Resource 4 Conservation -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Service. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the U.S.D.A. Anyway, 8 Laura just got transferred in from Eden, I believe. 9 MS. BROYLES: Yes, that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And moved to our office, which 11 is one of the very active offices in the state. We work 12 fairly closely with them in a number of ways. A lot of the 13 citizens of the county certainly work with this NRCS office, 14 and they also can help on flood mitigation. So, anyway, I 15 just wanted to ask Laura to come over, introduce her, and see 16 if she had any comments, and just welcome you to Kerr County. 17 MS. BROYLES: Great, thank you. Laura Broyles. 18 Very nice to meet all of you. I had talked to Mr. Letz 19 several days ago. I had had some requests in the office in 20 regards to prescribed burning, and I wanted to come in and 21 check with you gentlemen and see what your policy was on it, 22 as I am new in the county, and wanted to make sure that we 23 were working with y'all and doing things as y'all request. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be by to see you. 25 MS. BROYLES: Come on in. 1-14-13 78 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In our research of that -- and 2 I haven't visited with you -- we have a court order in place 3 with very specific provisions, and it's a form that was 4 created -- I think Joe Franklin had input in it, and I will 5 get it over to you. If you have any changes, you can come 6 back. But it's pretty much the one that we approved in 2011, 7 I believe, but it's a -- it's a set form, and says pretty 8 clearly what has to be in the burn plan. 9 MS. BROYLES: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The whole thing. And, 11 actually, there's no liability from y'all's standpoint. It's 12 just an approval of the form of the contract -- of the burn 13 plan. 14 MS. BROYLES: Okay. And each Commissioner is 15 responsible for lifting the burn ban in their precincts; is 16 that correct? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 18 MS. BROYLES: Okay, just wanted to make sure. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'd like for you to do that. 20 MS. BROYLES: You'd like for me to do that? 21 (Laughter.) I refer them your direction. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want your phone number on 23 them? 24 MS. BROYLES: No. No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-14-13 79 1 MS. BROYLES: If y'all have any questions of 2 myself, you know, please come to the office. If there's 3 anything that I can do to help you, I'd be more than happy. 4 My door's always open. Like Mr. Letz said, this is a very 5 busy office, and I'm responsible for four other offices, so I 6 do have to travel some. But there is staff in the office, so 7 if there's anything we can ever to do help, please don't 8 hesitate to contact us. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where are you located? 10 MS. BROYLES: I'm on Water Street, 420 Water 11 Street. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Pecan Plaza. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right across from the 15 library. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 MS. BROYLES: Bear with me. I don't know all of 18 the places yet. I've only been in the office two weeks, 19 so -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I know where it is. 21 MS. BROYLES: I'm still getting used to everybody. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The library or the office? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Both of them. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. BROYLES: Great. Well, thanks for the 1-14-13 80 1 invitation. It was very nice to meet all of you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be seeing you again. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we be in recess for 5 about 15 minutes? 6 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11:05 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 9 we might, from our break. The next item on the agenda, now 10 that we've got the timed items out of the way, is Item 8; to 11 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to create a 12 scholarship fund for the purpose of paying library fees to 13 the City of Kerrville for residents of Kerr County living 14 outside of the corporate city limits of the City of Kerrville 15 who are otherwise unable to pay such fees, and who desire to 16 utilize all or some portion of the services of the 17 Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library. I placed on this agenda 18 in -- in concern to some of the citizens that have raised the 19 issue about those folks, children and whatnot, who would not 20 have the ability. I think Colonel Marsh mentioned veterans 21 needing access, and a lot of those being disabled veterans 22 and veterans that need access to services that are available 23 at the library. Since placing it on the agenda, it occurred 24 to me there may be some legal issues involved with Kerr 25 County allocating funds, as opposed to private individuals or 1-14-13 81 1 foundations or -- or donors or something like that. But -- 2 so before we get too far into this, why, Mr. County Attorney, 3 what's -- what's your take on that? 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, you have the general 5 prohibition on the expenditure of public funds on private 6 citizens. And, you know, you can enter into an interlocal 7 agreement with another governmental entity for the joint 8 provision of services, such as we have with all of those that 9 are in place, but insofar as, you know, the County directly 10 paying for individual citizens' library membership with, you 11 know, another governmental entity, I don't know that you can 12 do that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: At the stated fee, or any -- 14 MR. HENNEKE: Right. I mean, if we worked out a 15 deal where the City agrees to reduce its rates or to waive 16 its fees for veterans or school children, or maybe those 17 within a certain percentage of the poverty level, it would be 18 a city policy, but we really can't just make direct -- pay 19 money to individuals, unless, you know, of course, we're 20 contracting for services or -- or conducting the business of 21 the County. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So we've come full circle back to 23 where we were previously before the break, that it's a matter 24 of city policy to do that, if it's going to be done lawfully. 25 MR. HENNEKE: I don't -- 1-14-13 82 1 JUDGE TINLEY: From our standpoint. 2 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir, it is. I don't believe 3 that the County can just pay a non-county -- or non-city 4 resident's library fee. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can the -- is it -- would it be 6 acceptable if the County or the City decided to waive certain 7 fees, some of those mentioned by the Judge, and for them to 8 do that, for us to give a flat fee to the library? 9 MR. HENNEKE: We could do it to the City. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I meant, to the 11 City. 12 MR. HENNEKE: It would, again, be within the terms 13 of an interlocal agreement, you know, for library services. 14 Right now, we had one that provided if there was funding from 15 the outside source, that set the number at 200,000. I mean, 16 we could say -- we could always enter into one for $5,000 or 17 $1,000 or $500. I mean, it's -- the concept remains the 18 same; it's just the amount. And that -- that's a contractual 19 relationship between the County and the City. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So that's how -- how it 21 would be approached. Okay, thank you. 22 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. That's how I -- that's the 23 only way that I could see to where the County could expend 24 county funds in, you know, funding another governmental 25 entity's program. That's how the Interlocal Cooperative Act 1-14-13 83 1 is set up. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess that kind of makes 4 the -- well, let me go ahead and call Item 9; to consider, 5 discuss, take appropriate action to negotiate a contract with 6 the City of Kerrville for reduced user fee rate for Kerr 7 County scholarship recipients. Actually, under the agenda 8 item, we would select the scholarship recipients, so that -- 9 that one's out, so I guess we just pass on that one. But 10 based upon what you've told us, if -- if the City decided to 11 implement those policies, we could enter into an interlocal 12 agreement and pay -- pay some -- some amount directly to the 13 City for the purpose of supplementing the library operations 14 budget because of -- because of implementing those policies, 15 or any other reason, as far as that goes. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Generally speaking, yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Anybody else on the 18 Court have anything to offer on that? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, those kinds of things 20 were discussed when we talked earlier. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Good enough. Well, let's roll on, 22 then. Let's go to Item 11; consider, discuss, take 23 appropriate action to approve the resolution for submission 24 of the General Victim Assistance Direct Services Programs 25 grant proposal for 2013-14 to the Office of the Governor, 1-14-13 84 1 Criminal Justice Division, the purpose of that grant being to 2 fund the Kerr County Crime Victims Coordinator program for 3 another year. Ms. Lavender? 4 MS. LAVENDER: Good morning. This would be the 5 ninth year, if we're lucky enough to be able to get the 6 grant. Not only are we providing victims services for Kerr 7 County residents, but under the grant, which is an 80/20 8 grant, for Mr. Moser's benefit, the governor's office pays 80 9 percent of the cost of it, and most of what the County pays 10 is providing office space, in-kind stuff. In fact, it's very 11 inexpensive for you all, other than the -- the office space 12 and -- and benefits. But, anyway, we also provide, on a 13 limited basis, victims services for residents or victims in 14 Bandera, Gillespie, Edwards, Kimble, Mason, Menard, and 15 McCullough Counties as needed through the District Attorney's 16 offices which are both based here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is one of those grants 22 that every year we wonder if it's going to get approved 23 again, and it just seems to keep going. How long -- eight 24 years already? 25 MS. LAVENDER: We're in the eighth year this year. 1-14-13 85 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hope it continues to get 2 approved. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it seemed like it was 4 supposed to be -- when we started, seemed like it was three 5 or four years or something like that. 6 MS. LAVENDER: When we passed that five-year mark, 7 we were, like, kind of uncomfortable after that. But -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And what's the amount of the 9 grant that's been received in the past? 10 MS. LAVENDER: You would ask that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Plus or minus, 65,000. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah, it will be right in that area. 13 Around 70,000, probably, this year. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 16 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 14; to consider, 24 discuss, take appropriate action to approve two-year 25 extension on current depository contract between Security 1-14-13 86 1 State Bank and Trust and Kerr County, and allow County Judge 2 to sign the same. 3 MS. SOLDAN: Good morning, gentlemen. I would like 4 to just extend the current depository contract that we have 5 with Security State Bank for another two years, as it is 6 outlined in our current depository contract. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 10 the agenda item. Is there any question or discussion on the 11 motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 16 MS. SOLDAN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 15; to consider, discuss, take 18 appropriate action to establish policies regarding Kerr 19 County youth baseball fields. Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 21 Basically, we're talking about the Little League fields and 22 our agreement that we had with Little League in the past. A 23 little bit of history. Our lease with Little League expired 24 in February of last year. We did an extension to extend it 25 through the Little League all-star season, and so we extended 1-14-13 87 1 through July 31st. And in our mind -- or in my mind, anyway, 2 the lease expired July 31st. Since then, primarily myself 3 and Rob Henneke have met with representatives from Little 4 League on several occasions, and there -- you know, I don't 5 want to overly simplify it, but there are two issues where 6 the County's position is pretty much that the -- you know, 7 the lights, all the permanent structures, should really 8 become county property at the end of the lease. There's a -- 9 there's a debate whether they're personal property or 10 private, you know, or real property and all that, but that's 11 really irrelevant from my standpoint, because those fields 12 are going to stay youth baseball fields. So, if they're -- I 13 mean, ownership of the lights and all that, really, and the 14 physical plant out there doesn't make any difference. I 15 think the Court has said those fields are to be used for 16 youth baseball and softball, and that's, to me, not a real 17 issue moving forward. 18 The other issue has been on who kind of manages and 19 -- and controls the facility, and I think my position, and I 20 think the County's, is that the -- it is imperative those 21 fields be open to everyone in the county. We're not -- we 22 can't just have it controlled by one person. In the past -- 23 and things have changed a great deal since Little League 24 first got this lease, and Little League essentially -- or 25 this organization raised money to do most of the fields and 1-14-13 88 1 work out there. But now more than one entity is using the 2 fields. You have Little League organization. You have a 3 group called Select Baseball; they have various affiliations. 4 You have -- Notre Dame has used it. And, anyway, so there's 5 multiple users out there, which is great. The issue has come 6 a little bit -- you know, there's -- we hear things 7 occasionally on the Court as to, you know, "Well, they're not 8 paying their fair share," and someone -- "So-and-so denied 9 access," and all of that type of thing. 10 In the -- you know, since July, we've met several 11 times. We've asked Little League to give us a proposal as to 12 what they would think, you know, to be a new -- a way to go 13 forward. We received a letter last week from Little League 14 that -- I think it's in the backup -- which, you know, I 15 can't support. And to me, we're at a point that it makes the 16 most sense for the County to take over the facility, and we 17 will lease the facility for youth baseball purposes to anyone 18 that wants to use the facility, and they will get charged a 19 fee. There won't be a cost to the taxpayers. We'll figure 20 out -- you know, we -- I asked for the copy of the Little 21 League budget. They declined to give it to me for the last 22 two years, so we're at -- you know, I have -- we have since 23 received all the information from the utility standpoint, 24 which is the biggest cost. And it seems to me that the way 25 to go forward is for us to take over paying all the 1-14-13 89 1 utilities, maintaining the property, and we will charge 2 Little League and everybody else that uses the fields a rate 3 that will compensate the County for the cost. 4 And -- you know, and we're at a point now that we 5 can't delay. Little League is in the process of doing their 6 registration. Practices probably start, I'm guessing, in 7 March. There's other -- the Select Baseball teams are 8 already using the facility, and it just seems like we just 9 need to get something done. And we haven't come to an 10 agreement with Little League, and I don't think it's going to 11 hurt Little League at all. It's going to be -- in my mind, 12 it's a positive to them in many ways. A lot of things that 13 they have complained about to me in the past, that they were 14 maintaining the whole facilities for other entities during -- 15 you know, they use it four months out of the year, and 16 they're paying for 12 months. Well, this solves that 17 problem. We'll figure out what it costs to run that 18 facility, divide it up amongst the number of teams that use 19 it, or number of players. I mean, figure out some formula. 20 And, certainly, we want to keep Little League, 'cause they 21 are the biggest user out there, very much involved with how 22 we -- you know, how that's done, and they've been a huge, you 23 know, asset to this county. 24 I'm -- like I said, through their various 25 organizations, and the presidents over the years, going back 1-14-13 90 1 to Scott Parker, Rit Jons, I mean, they started the -- 2 really, the facility as it is out there. Mr. Caraway in the 3 audience, his son is another one that really started -- 4 really got that facility going. They had a big part of it 5 during the '90's, and -- you know, so it's had a lot of 6 presidents along the way that have really done a lot. And my 7 biggest concern and hope is that we can -- you know, it will 8 be a facility. It's a first-class facility as it currently 9 is for the youth of Kerr County, and it's primarily those 10 kids that live in the Kerrville area, but there's also Center 11 Point Little League and Comfort Little League. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram Little League. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ingram Little League. So, it's 14 primarily Kerrville that uses the Little League part of it, 15 but the other part of the year it's used by kids all over the 16 county. And so that's kind of my stand. I know we have 17 quite a few representatives from Little League in the room, 18 and their attorney. So, you know, that's not set in stone, 19 but that's kind of where I'm prepared to go, and to move 20 forward. That's all I really have. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can I ask a question? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's see. So, just to review 24 the bidding, the County owns the property, and in the past, 25 the County leased it to the Little League or whatever for a 1-14-13 91 1 dollar a year, something like that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They put in all the 4 improvements. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Which would evolve to -- 7 sometime to the County, whatever those fixed assets are. We 8 don't have to worry about that right now. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, what you're proposing 11 is -- is that the County take over the responsibility for 12 administering the youth fields, so there's going to be some 13 costs in that, and so those additional costs would be then 14 allocated to whoever's using it, so the net cost to the 15 County would be supposedly nothing? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Zero. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So there's just that extra 20 burden, but it could be a better organized improvement for 21 having somebody clearly that's in charge. And the -- and so 22 Little League, they proposed something -- and I'm sorry; I 23 didn't get the -- my backup was not working this morning, or 24 just lately. So, they -- they -- in the letter, they 25 proposed something that was not -- 1-14-13 92 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their proposal -- I don't want 2 to oversimplify it, but basically, is that they'll be in 3 charge of operating the fields, and we'll take over most of 4 the expenses of, you know, mowing outside, mowing the 5 property exclusive of the infields, and they'll take -- we'll 6 pay all the utilities. We're responsible for the lights. 7 We'll do a well. You know, we're responsible for pretty much 8 the biggest cost part of it. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we're responsible for 11 the cost, then, you know, it's kind of going to what the 12 Judge said, user fees. We really need to be responsible for 13 the whole thing, because we need to bill that back out as a 14 -- as a fee to the groups that are using it. I really don't 15 think it's going to be much of a change in the, you know, 16 operating cost of the facility. Some of our maintenance 17 costs may be a little bit higher, but I think they can still 18 donate their time and still hopefully do things. I mean, the 19 reason those fields are as nice as they are is because the 20 parents spend a lot of time on them. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we take care of mowing 23 the common areas, which is not as critical, and something 24 that it's probably harder to get volunteers to do, I've 25 talked to Tim; that's not a huge amount. We already use 1-14-13 93 1 community service and the trustees out there to clean up some 2 of the common areas, so it's not a -- not a huge change, in 3 my mind. The issue on scheduling, you know, is still a 4 potential issue, but I think how that's resolved pretty much 5 is, you know, you get representatives from Little League as 6 to when they need the fields, the Select people, get them in 7 a room and say, "Work out a schedule," you know. That's what 8 they've pretty much done in the past. It hasn't been all 9 that difficult, but I think this is a fair way to do it. The 10 one thing that may be a cost up front to the county is 11 lighting. That's one of the -- probably lights are a big 12 part of their annual electric bill. The other big part is 13 the irrigation well. But on the lights, there is a system 14 that can be put in out there so that whoever's using the 15 lights pays them with a credit card. Basically, it's a meter 16 event type operation. 17 So -- and the reason that's attractive to me is 18 that if you have, you know, other people using the facility, 19 a Select team going out there or staying late, or you have, 20 you know, some people giving lessons out there that are kind 21 of working with the kids, but they're giving lessons, they're 22 paying for the lights. It's not that hard. I mean, Little 23 League -- it'd be the same situation with Little League. So, 24 you know, it just seems like it's a -- a doable thing. But, 25 you know, I think the -- my last meeting with Little League, 1-14-13 94 1 I guess, was in October or November -- October, I think. 2 Talked about this, but at this point, this is kind of new to 3 them, I think, that this concept -- that we're ready to do 4 this. But we just need to move forward, in my mind. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: User fees. Unusual concept. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know that a 7 decision has to be made today on this. I mean, it needs to 8 be done really right away; we can't wait a whole lot longer, 9 'cause the season is getting ready to start. Someone needs 10 to be in charge. 11 MR. MACHANN: Okay, do I fill out a -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no, no. I think I can 13 figure out who you are, Mr. Machann. Dwaine Machann, local 14 lawyer. I understand that you represent the Kerrville Little 15 League. 16 MR. MACHANN: Yes, sir, I do. Yes, sir, I do. And 17 I wanted to clarify a couple things, at least in my mind, on 18 behalf of the Little League. And I think that at least one 19 of the members of the Little League, in the executive 20 committees or something, would like to say something also. 21 Mr. Letz, I disagree, I guess, a little bit with the County's 22 position. We talked about this months ago. The existing 23 lease, in my opinion -- not just my opinion -- clearly says 24 that if the lease is terminated, that the Little League has 25 90 days or 120 days or 180 days or something to remove all 1-14-13 95 1 the improvements they've made to the field. I wasn't 2 involved in that document. It's a pretty lengthy provision, 3 though, and it's fairly clear. I think Rit Jons and Scott 4 Parker were involved at that time. 5 I don't know who's put all the improvements up over 6 the years. I'm not trying to get into that, whether we're 7 right, wrong, or whatever, but Mr. Letz left that out. Which 8 has been a major concern of Little League, that basically we 9 were told last summer that the County owned all those 10 improvements now because the lease was illegal, and because 11 the lease was illegal, everything we put out there belonged 12 to the County. That was what we were told last summer. We 13 disagree with that. Portions of it may be correct, which is 14 the County does have limitations on the leases. I haven't 15 researched it. There's some exceptions, but a lot of 16 provisions that talk about if you lease property, you're 17 supposed to -- there's some old statute that talks about 18 bidding the lease out and so forth, which was never done. 19 There's some exceptions to that for such things as livestock 20 associations and exhibition centers and various other things, 21 and there may not be an exception for baseball fields. 22 That doesn't mean if the lease wasn't done like 23 it's supposed to be -- and I don't think it automatically 24 means that whatever the tenants put out there on the property 25 belongs to the County because the lease can't be enforced. I 1-14-13 96 1 think that's a strange... I don't believe that Little League 2 cares who runs the operation. If my recollection is correct, 3 and correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought last year that the 4 County wanted us to run it, because you didn't want to really 5 run it. And -- and so now you say now the County would like 6 to administer it as a change. Is that -- that's right? 7 Because you didn't want to get into that, 'cause it's not 8 that easy to do, because there's multiple users, there's 9 multiple people, there's individuals that use it, there's 10 people that teach athletic endeavors and charge for it, and 11 so scheduling is not that easy all the time. I think the 12 Little League pretty much would say, you know, give us our 13 April to whatever, our three or four months, and let us kind 14 of keep what we've had, and we don't -- we don't care whether 15 we run anything or not. 16 We talked last year about having some sort of 17 association set up. That's got some difficulties with it. 18 I'm not sure who belongs to that; I don't know how you form 19 it, and it's complicated. But before some of these other 20 ones got up, I did want to make a point that there is an 21 issue about who owns the lights. The County took the 22 position last summer that they belonged to the County, 'cause 23 they're permanent fixtures. I disagree. They can be 24 unbolted. They're very expensive. I think the Little League 25 had a whole, whole lot to do with raising money for lots of 1-14-13 97 1 improvements out there over the years, and I think for the 2 County to come back and say, "Well, we really think they're 3 ours," that you might want to think about that a little bit, 4 and look at the lease and consider whether that makes sense 5 or not. 6 And then the other part is to consider that Little 7 League really doesn't want to run it. We don't want to do 8 all the scheduling. We don't want to control 12 months. 9 We'd like to have some control of four months -- three 10 months, four months, like we have for a long time, and I 11 think Little League is -- I think these people have put in -- 12 I've been here almost 30 years, and I think this lease was 13 signed about the time I came here, and I think they've 14 probably carried most of the weight out there for close to 30 15 years. And then just to say, "Well, we'll let y'all know 16 when you get to show up and what we're going to charge you," 17 perhaps is a little sudden, and maybe we ought to talk about 18 it a little bit more. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. MACHANN: That's all I have. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I -- well, I 22 will say your Item 3 in your proposal is Kerrville Youth 23 Baseball Softball Association be in charge of regulating use 24 of the fields by others, and any fee schedule, et cetera. 25 That tells me in that letter that you want control of the use 1-14-13 98 1 of the fields. 2 MR. MACHANN: Jonathan, this was put together very 3 quickly last week, when I got a call from the Little League 4 saying there's an item on the agenda. We don't know what 5 it's going to be talking about, but we need to do something. 6 And we have not responded like we should after our meeting 7 last summer. We were -- the Little League was asked to put 8 together a proposal, basically. They didn't do it. I don't 9 know why. Change of boards, lots of stuff, but it didn't get 10 done. And they discovered last week it will be on the 11 agenda. It alarmed them because of some of the things we 12 heard last summer about what was going to take place in this 13 meeting. So, you know, that was put together in about 30 14 minutes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 16 MR. MACHANN: So, K.Y.B.S.A., anybody can run that 17 thing. We don't care. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah. And the bottom 19 line is -- 20 MR. MACHANN: Last summer, the County didn't want 21 anything to do with running this and making the kind of 22 decisions that have to be made about who gets to use the 23 fields when, who gets charged, who doesn't, and how much they 24 get charged, because it's not going to be very easy. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. But since we 1-14-13 99 1 didn't receive a response, we started looking at -- because 2 we're committed to making that a youth baseball field, and 3 something has to be in place. 4 MR. MACHANN: I'm not making excuses for -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. MACHANN: I don't know what happened with the 7 lack of response. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, this isn't -- 9 MR. MACHANN: But you also left -- but you also 10 left out -- with all due respect, if you're just going to 11 take it over, tell our people what they can do, I don't think 12 Little League's going to think it's that easy. And I don't 13 mean that in a challenging way, but -- but to not at least 14 mention that there's some issues here, I think you left out 15 something pretty important. With these people sitting here 16 that have historically put a lot into it and know about 17 people in the past, you have totally ignored the issue, which 18 is an extreme issue for them, of lots of investment of 19 materials, equipment, fields, buildings. And for you to 20 ignore that, I don't think -- I don't think is going over 21 very well with some of these people. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that I'm not going to 23 get into this in an adversarial way. We want to work with 24 Little League. I think those in the room know that most of 25 the fields were built when I was present, and I put in the 1-14-13 100 1 sweat equity too, and I'm certainly not putting over what 2 Little League has done. 3 MR. MACHANN: I understand. I didn't hear that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I want to -- I want 5 to move forward and keep youth baseball fields working out 6 there, and we haven't gotten a proposal from Little League. 7 So, during that -- 8 MR. MACHANN: They should have got -- they should 9 have gotten you one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But during the last six months, 11 I started working with Jody to get all the utility records 12 from KPUB and from the City of Kerrville. We've done it. 13 We've started to figure out what the lights cost on the pony 14 league field, what the lights cost on the major league field, 15 and started looking at it. I've talked to the Maintenance 16 Department; said, "What can we do here?" And it was a -- you 17 know, and it's something that if we need to, we can. If 18 Little League wants to, you know, come back with some 19 proposal, I'm open to that. I just want to make sure those 20 fields are used for youth baseball. The reason I keep on 21 saying that is, the biggest issue I had for the last nine 22 months was the Little League board had -- were convinced that 23 we were going to take it over and turn it into a parking lot 24 or something for the Ag Barn. I've told them over and over 25 again that was not true. I don't know where that came 1-14-13 101 1 from -- where that rumor came from. They blamed it on the 2 predecessor to Commissioner Moser. I'm not sure I recall him 3 saying it exactly that way, but that's neither here nor 4 there. I want these to be youth baseball fields. How we get 5 there is not as critical to me. We need to have something 6 that works from the County Attorney's standpoint, and is fair 7 to the citizens. 8 Certainly, Little League is going to be a big 9 player out there in anything we do, because it's -- they're 10 the largest user, but they're not the only user. And I just 11 think we need to -- you know, I see this as a good thing for 12 the Little League. From being the past president out there 13 for a long time, if the County takes over a lot of these 14 responsibilities, they may pay for it from paying a fee, but 15 they're also going to -- I know volunteers are hard to get. 16 I mean, these guys sitting right there are the ones -- and 17 ladies, that do a lot of volunteer work out there, and it is 18 tougher and tougher to get people to go out there and sit in 19 the concession stand -- and which they're still going to have 20 to do that, but -- and, you know, maintain the fields and 21 things of that nature, especially outside the season. And I 22 think the County, you know, can do that. Is it going to be 23 done for free? No, it can't be done for free. But I think 24 it can be done in a manner where it's not going to be much of 25 a change, and something that we can hopefully work into. 1-14-13 102 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have a question. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like you guys got some -- you 3 need to sit down around the table and get some things 4 thrashed out. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Question. Currently, the way 6 it's being used, Our Lady of the Hills or whoever else uses 7 it, how does -- but the Little League has done all the 8 improvements, and they're sort of the -- the tenants out 9 there right now. How does that work now? The way I 10 understand it is, County's got the property. Little League 11 has been doing -- Little League needs it for about four 12 months, something like that, but other people are using it, 13 so how's that working now? Where anybody else that's using 14 it -- 15 MR. MACHANN: This is George Baroody. 16 MR. BAROODY: I'm George Baroody. Basically, on 17 the board in the Little League. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 MR. BAROODY: The -- currently, the different -- 20 the various people that use the fields, depending on how much 21 they're using it, they may or may not be charged. Depends on 22 if they're trying to lock in a certain allotment of time. We 23 charge them. They do not pay for the upkeep. They pay a -- 24 it amounts to a nominal fee. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 1-14-13 103 1 MR. BAROODY: An example, you're -- you were asking 2 about Notre Dame. They do not pay. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 4 MR. BAROODY: They use it very little. They're 5 requesting it to be for them such a small time, we actually 6 are not charging. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, the answer to the question 8 is the Little League does the administration -- 9 MR. BAROODY: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- of that? Okay. So, that's 11 the simple answer, so okay. So, gosh, you know, watching 12 that field for the last 15 years, it just keeps getting 13 better and better and better. When something keeps getting 14 better and better and better, you know, it's my inclination, 15 don't change it. 16 MR. BAROODY: Well, there's a couple things to 17 address that. One, current -- for 25 years, at really no 18 cost to the County, as you say, baseball has been improving, 19 improving, improving out there. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 21 MR. BAROODY: All the time. We're not suggesting 22 anything that changes the cost to the County. Our proposal, 23 prior to the letter that's been turned in, has always been we 24 don't like that we're the main payer, but for being the main 25 payer, we just really wanted the ability to call our shots on 1-14-13 104 1 when we use the field. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 3 MR. BAROODY: We are proposing the same thing now. 4 The proposal that Mr. Letz is actually proposing sounds more 5 like, in all likelihood, there's going to be some cost to the 6 County over and above the fees that are charged, simply 7 because I don't think -- Little League probably can come up 8 with their equivalent use costs, but my guess is the smaller 9 organizations are going to be -- it's going to be a little 10 cost prohibitive to pass on the direct cost to them. So, my 11 guess is in the end, the County will end up paying something. 12 There's no way to know that right now. I can't. A couple 13 things to clear up, though. The original lease had a date of 14 termination at the end of -- at the end of February of last 15 year. We got an extension that put the date at the end of 16 July. The provision in the lease actually also states that 17 there's a holdover part, so we are actually in a 18 month-to-month situation with the current lease. Unless 19 there's a written notification one way or the other, that 20 lease is still in place. 21 Unless, of course, we are being told that the lease 22 could be invalidated. If that was the tack that the County 23 wanted to take, then, of course, you can wave off all of it. 24 But right now, the rush to get something done, Little League 25 is going -- has been going with the idea that it's as it was, 1-14-13 105 1 month-to-month. We're still expecting to maintain as we did. 2 We are still in charge of electric bills right now. We don't 3 collect money from somebody else for electric bills; we just 4 pay them, water bills as well. We have been going with that 5 while we've been negotiating. Again, slowly on our part. I 6 did not submit something from our meeting -- I believe it was 7 in September, actually. But without that new lease, we're 8 going with the idea that we have a month-to-month lease, 9 'cause that's what the current lease actually states. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the current lease also 11 states you can't sublease it, which is part of the problem. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, here again, that's one of the 13 things you guys need to talk about. We don't want to use 14 this forum for you guys to negotiate your deal. 15 MR. MACHANN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You 16 can't use -- you can't take the position -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Dwaine? Dwaine, excuse me. 18 MR. MACHANN: Yes, sir, I'll be glad to -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about negotiating and 20 arguing a position, and this isn't the place to do that. The 21 place to do that is for you guys to sit down across the table 22 and figure out something that works for both of you. 23 MR. MACHANN: I don't disagree. It hasn't been 24 that easy. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it never is. 1-14-13 106 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I've got a couple 2 issues that I just want to -- I agree with you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to be a negotiator? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I want them to add 5 to their list of negotiations. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a part -- part to 8 this thing that I don't understand, never have been able to 9 understand. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little League paying for 12 everything, et cetera. Why -- what if we no longer allowed 13 these other schools, entities, et cetera, to use the 14 facility? What would that do? What would that do to the 15 bottom line? Or -- I really have a hard time with a 16 for-profit organization using the facility without paying 17 anything. I have a hard time with that. And I see some ads 18 in the newspaper this week where some guy from some college, 19 a coach is coming in and doing a workshop or whatever that 20 thing is that they do, and that's for profit. Does -- do 21 they pay Little League or the County? 22 MR. BAROODY: I don't know that particular one. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been in the newspaper 24 several times. 25 MR. BAROODY: Yes. Under -- I know that there is 1-14-13 107 1 for-profit business that is run out there that is not paying 2 for use. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 MR. BAROODY: I also know that -- you know, and in 5 a roundabout way, some for-profit business is paying for use, 6 so some is, some isn't. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your negotiations, would 8 you consider those things? Would that be of any assistance 9 in any way to just to deal with that? 10 MR. BAROODY: It's certainly an issue, and we -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you add that to your 12 list? 13 MR. MACHANN: Yeah, it's probably already on our 14 list. But that one, as you might think, is a little bit 15 difficult. I don't disagree with those that I think are 16 making profit ought to pay something, but there's politics in 17 a lot of this, too, 'cause there's schools that are using 18 this. There's other groups -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those guys in the Cleveland 20 Indians. 21 MR. MACHANN: Well, I don't -- when I say 22 "politics," I don't mean government politics; I mean 23 political -- it's not that easy to tell somebody, "You're 24 going to have to pay for this," when they're trying to tutor 25 kids. You can look at it two different ways; yeah, they're 1-14-13 108 1 making some money off of it, but they're providing something. 2 Maybe a local coach or somebody provides their services. 3 And, you know, who makes the decision and who gets charged, 4 who doesn't, and how much? It's not our -- it's not really 5 ours, so it's kind of tough for us to do it. And that 6 creates disagreements, 'cause the people say, well, I 7 can't -- you know, "Little League won't let me use the 8 field." Well, sometimes we have reasons for that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we go back to Letz' 10 thing. If you can't negotiate that thing, the County just 11 take it over and run it the way we want to, then. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We can tell them you got to pay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 MR. MACHANN: I understand. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- 16 MR. MACHANN: I understand. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we've established a history of 18 that sort of thing, haven't we? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just saying, just make 20 sure that that's on the list. 21 MR. MACHANN: We agree with you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really disagree with this 23 kind of thing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At all. 1-14-13 109 1 MR. BAROODY: We could do that, and then what he's 2 talking -- what he's -- Judge Tinley's proposing is that we 3 go out and negotiate. That would be fine. We'd like to, 4 before we leave, clarify that we actually believe we're in a 5 lease right now, a month-to-month lease, so that we can 6 proceed under something. That's what I'd like to see. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 8 MR. BAROODY: While we negotiate. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If my understanding is correct, if 10 there's going to be termination of anything, it requires some 11 sort of notice under the existing lease, does it not? 12 MR. HENNEKE: Well, the lease expired, Judge, 13 without any kind of renewal or extension. And I would 14 disagree with their position that they're in a holdover, but 15 if that just needs to be firmly clarified, then the Court 16 could ask me to, you know, send a notice of the same. But, I 17 mean, we're not trying to negotiate or argue anything here. 18 MR. MACHANN: Mr. Henneke, is there a 19 month-to-month provision in that lease? 20 MR. HENNEKE: Holdover -- 21 MR. MACHANN: There's a holdover provision, 22 correct? 23 MR. HENNEKE: The lease speaks for itself, 24 Mr. Machann. 25 MR. MACHANN: I'm just asking, is there a 30-day 1-14-13 110 1 holdover provision in the lease? 2 MR. HENNEKE: That's a whole lot more complicated 3 than we want to discuss here today. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- you know, I don't know that we 5 can resolve anything here right now. In fact, it's pretty 6 obvious to me that we cannot resolve anything here right now. 7 MR. MACHANN: I don't disagree with that either. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But I would be willing to hold the 9 key to the room that I lock you in. 10 MR. MACHANN: No, you can't do that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is Rusty? 12 MR. MACHANN: You might not come back. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You're exactly right. And I 14 wouldn't until something was slid under the door that was 15 signed by everybody. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, my recommendation would 17 be -- and I'll make a motion in a second, but I'll say why 18 I'm doing it. These negotiations have gone on for a year, 19 and something needs to be done. And I'm not going to get 20 into the basis of a holdover provision or whatever. I'll 21 make a motion that we terminate the lease with Little League. 22 That doesn't mean you can't use the fields this year; it just 23 says we're terminating it, so then we have to do something 24 soon. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Season starts when? March? 1-14-13 111 1 MR. BAROODY: Our registration begins in a week. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- yeah, but the fields 3 will be available. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Give me the key. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I made a motion. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Do I hear a 7 second to Commissioner Letz' motion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second the motion. If 9 this -- if this order will move this thing forward, I'm all 10 for it 100 percent. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'll see if it will. Okay, 12 we have a motion and a second. Any further question or 13 discussion -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Discussion. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on the court order? 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I don't know if this is 17 the exact way to do this, but is it -- would another option 18 be to modify the lease with our agreement so that it is a 19 month-to-month? While this -- while this -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be a separate -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: While this continues? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an option. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a separate -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Separate motion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not a motion. I think 1-14-13 112 1 that's a separate deal. We could do a month-to-month until 2 something's worked out, not under the current lease term, 3 because there's a disagreement on -- from the County Attorney 4 versus Little League attorney of some of the provisions, and 5 it's an unclear lease. Therefore, let's terminate the lease 6 and move forward. If Little League -- you know, we'll enter 7 into a very easy agreement at our next meeting, if need be, 8 so Little League has the use of the fields, so they're 9 comfortable with that. 'Cause, I mean, that's how I see 10 moving forward on this. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have to terminate now? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to give termination -- 13 cause there's a 30-day notice period in the lease, and, you 14 know, I'd say yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't suppose we have to do 16 anything, but we have a motion before the Court right now -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I'm discussing it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to terminate the lease. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I'm discussing that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what I'm doing. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would it do -- I mean, 24 I kind of like what he's saying, I think. What would it do? 25 I mean, I can see terminating the lease. I understand what 1-14-13 113 1 that does. Can we turn right around and do the 2 month-to-month thing at the next meeting? You can't do it 3 today under this agenda item. Or can you? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably could. 5 MR. HENNEKE: There wouldn't be a lease. I mean, 6 we're using a lot of terms generally and colloquially here. 7 I think the Court could grant permission to Little League to 8 use its fields for the upcoming season, and that's what 9 Commissioner Letz has talked about. I'd prefer if we stayed 10 away from, you know, "renewing the lease" or terms like that. 11 But that's -- at the end of the day, they get to play 12 baseball for the coming season. Commissioner Letz has 13 clearly said yes, and we could say, you know, to whatever 14 extent there might be a lease or any kind of legal 15 relationship between the parties, we're giving formal notice 16 that that's over, but go ahead and have your registration, 17 your season. Go ahead and pick out the uniforms, because the 18 county fields is -- is available for y'all to use. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can say that today? 20 That's my only question. 21 MR. HENNEKE: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We can -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can say that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I amend my motion to 25 include granting Little League use of the fields for the 1-14-13 114 1 upcoming season? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: To extend through when? 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Through the end of the season. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through July 31st. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: July 31? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a good date? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: End of All-Stars. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, that's amended. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I certainly -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and second as amended. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I certainly hope that 16 some kind of a legal agreement can be reached very quickly. 17 This has been dragging on; it's been on going on since I've 18 been back on the Court, and there hasn't been a lot of 19 movement until you get to, you know, having a meeting. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's moving. 21 MR. MACHANN: Could I make one comment? I know 22 you're in the middle of motions, and I don't want to get in 23 the middle of Robert's Rules, but if I could make one 24 comment, the down side of what you're proposing is that you 25 -- you're going to put them in a position where, if you 1-14-13 115 1 terminate it, they do have -- it brings up the exact issue 2 that we haven't been able to resolve, is that we -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Improvements. 4 MR. MACHANN: -- we got an empty period of time to 5 remove them physically. Is that what -- my only question is, 6 does the Court want to put us under that timeline that we've 7 got to get all the improvements off the premises within 90 8 days? 9 MR. BAROODY: Actually, 120. 10 MR. MACHANN: 120. That's my only question. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're in the same position, 12 too. 13 MR. MACHANN: I'm not disagreeing. I just want to 14 make -- I just wanted to clarify that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I don't see anything wrong with 16 a nice healthy fuse in this thing, and a short one. We'll 17 get something to happen here. We'll solidify it. We'll be 18 able to move on; we won't be talking about it six months or a 19 year from now. That's my thinking. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So -- one other discussion 21 item. So, what's the down side -- what's the down side if we 22 didn't terminate the lease and we just granted the Little 23 League permission to use the courts -- I mean the fields 24 through July of next year while we negotiate? What will be 25 the -- I understand negotiation hasn't happened, but I think 1-14-13 116 1 that there's -- I can sense an emphasis to -- 2 MR. HENNEKE: We could always go into executive 3 session to discuss, you know, the legal issues on this thing. 4 But, you know, I can -- pursuant to the motion, I can, you 5 know, send something in writing that adopts at least what the 6 current motion is, and move from there. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I want to do is move 8 this thing forward, whatever it takes. If it -- if that 9 shortens the period, you know, if we -- if they have to have 10 their stuff off the property in 120 days, so be it. That 11 causes us to move forward, and on a short time frame. That's 12 all I want to do. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be hard to 14 remove -- be hard to remove all the improvements and still 15 play baseball at the same time, whenever we're agreeing that 16 they've -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't want to just move 18 forward; I want to see those fields continue. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's going to continue. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's much -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's no intent of this 23 Court to cease use of that field and those fields for youth 24 baseball. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that could happen. 1-14-13 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I can say is that -- well, 2 if Little League chooses to try to move the lights off, I'm 3 not going to get into the issue, I think that they're going 4 in the face of all of the foundations, or most of them in 5 this town that gave the money to build all that. I mean, the 6 purpose of those foundations were to give money for the youth 7 of Kerr County, and that's what I want to see moving forward, 8 you know. 9 MR. MACHANN: Gentlemen, we don't want to take the 10 lights. We'd like to have a long-term arrangement. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's get it -- 13 MR. MACHANN: You told us we can't have one. I 14 mean, you -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can get there. 16 MR. MACHANN: That's not what we've been told for 17 six months. We've been told for six months we couldn't have 18 one 'cause it's illegal. 19 MR. HENNEKE: That's not correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, here we go again. 21 MR. HENNEKE: We can argue this -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Being no further discussion on the 23 motion, the chair is going to call for the question. All 24 those in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 25 hand. 1-14-13 118 1 (Commissioners Baldwin, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 2 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (Commissioner Moser voted against the motion.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Gentlemen, 6 let's move on to Item 18; consider, discuss, take appropriate 7 action to reduce registration fee during the annual rabies 8 drive February the 2nd through February the 16th, 2013. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is the deal we do every 10 year. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And here comes Charity. 13 MS. FEGENBUSH: Hello. Good morning. Rabies drive 14 coming up this year, it will be the 2nd through the 16th, and 15 I'm asking your approval just to lower the registration fee 16 to one dollar, like we do every year. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 1-14-13 119 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was quick, wasn't it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's do Item 19 quickly; consider, 3 discuss, take appropriate action to give Terra Bailey 4 educational increase for her basic Animal Control 5 certification. 6 MS. FEGENBUSH: Yes. On October 18th, Terra Bailey 7 passed her certification test, and I'm asking your approval 8 to give her an educational increase, which would take her 9 from a 14.2, to a 14.3. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a certification required 11 under state law for certain performance of duties -- 12 MS. FEGENBUSH: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as an Animal Control officer? 14 MS. FEGENBUSH: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, we have those increases 16 built into our budget. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are -- are those ones that in 18 the past we've given -- 19 MS. FEGENBUSH: Mm-hmm. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- under our 1999 policy for 21 longevity and educational increase? Those are ones we've 22 given increases in the past for? 23 MS. FEGENBUSH: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-14-13 120 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it is budgeted? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Should be. 5 MS. LANTZ: Yes, it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 8 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 13 MS. FEGENBUSH: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Charity. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we come back at about 16 1:30? We got a little bit more work to do here, folks. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was all geared up to go all 18 through. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, well, it could have been 20 worse, Commissioner. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's because we talked about 22 Little League. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. I thought I was going 24 to be the one to create the problem today. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It could be soccer. See the 1-14-13 121 1 positive side to this? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 3 (Recess taken from 11:55 a.m. to 1:35 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, why don't we get back -- get 6 started. Let's go to Item 21; consider, discuss, take 7 appropriate action to select date for workshop to discuss 8 Open Meetings Act and Open Records Act. Commissioner 9 Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. We 11 previously talked about doing this, and I think in your 12 packet -- it certainly is in mine. Of course, I'm better 13 connected than y'all are. I thought I was. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what all these dates 15 are? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The list of the next 17 meetings, future Commissioners Court dates. So -- you know, 18 and we don't have to do it on those -- on the days of the 19 meetings. I just thought it was convenient, that we're all 20 here, and the Judge can buy us lunch and we can come back and 21 then have the workshop. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: How about the one on Juvember the 23 43rd? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, there's -- there's a -- 25 I can't remember what it is, but it's something to do with 1-14-13 122 1 the city ordinance, and those dates and library just don't 2 jive, so we can't do it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Did you get all that, Kathy? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't get me to buy lunch either, so 6 I guess we're really blowed up. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I'm thinking February 8 11th, maybe, huh? You know, the County Attorney says that he 9 has a couple of videos that are really good. I've heard from 10 other -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Of you? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. (Laughter.) He's not 13 allowed to have that kind of stuff. The videos that I've 14 heard outside of him that -- that are really good, and they 15 -- what was it, the Attorney General that made those? 16 Attorney General made them, and they're really -- it's a 17 class in themselves, and so we can just sit here and watch TV 18 and eat popcorn. And so what date do you want to do it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 11th is fine with me. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, I move that on 21 February the 11th -- at 1:30? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1:30, that we have a 24 workshop in this room on Open Meetings Act and the Open 25 Records Act. 1-14-13 123 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 3 or discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 4 hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get to Item 22; to consider -- 11 MAYOR PRATT: Judge, can I ask a question? Are you 12 going to invite other elected officials to that? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Commissioner Baldwin's -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We surely should, yes. As a 15 matter of fact, I've been asked by three different people out 16 in the community, "Hey, take this thing on a road trip." And 17 I said, "Well, I have a hard time finding the courthouse 18 sometimes," but -- so I'm not going to, but I think it's a 19 good idea to invite -- 20 MAYOR PRATT: Other elected people, especially new 21 ones? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I think the 23 underground water district and, you know -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: City Council would certainly 25 be invited. 1-14-13 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City Council definitely 2 needs it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: U.G.R.A. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: U.G.R.A. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Everybody that's elected has 6 to do that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm sure that we can 8 count on the newspaper to put that out on the streets. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Jody would be glad, I'm 10 sure, to send an e-mail over to these other entities. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see your sweaty palms. 12 We know you're excited about this. 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: Oh, yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It won't make the headlines 15 like everything else we've done today. 16 MS. ABLES: Can mere mortals come? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mere mortals may. You have 18 to sit in the back of the room there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: There'd probably be a user fee for 20 those. (Laughter.) 21 MS. ABLES: Let me see if I can get the City to pay 22 for that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 25 MS. ABLES: Well, I'm thinking of people in 1-14-13 125 1 nonprofits. We have to deal with that, too. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. Sure. 3 MS. ABLES: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Bring a crowd. 5 MAYOR PRATT: Not just elected; all people 6 appointed to boards have to follow the same rules. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have to comply with the Open 8 Records Act. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We may need the theater for this. 10 MS. ABLES: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's the question. The 12 purpose of this, since everybody that's elected or on boards 13 or whatever -- Airport Board, whatever, they have to do this 14 Open Meetings and -- and information stuff; they have to take 15 the test, so they have it. So, this is primarily for the 16 benefit -- is it a refresher primarily for the benefit of the 17 public? Or -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a refresher for me, I 19 can tell you that. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my goal. I mean, I 22 know these guys have been through this workshop, much like 23 what you just got through -- come back from. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, you have to go to the 25 Attorney General's thing and listen to all the videos, and at 1-14-13 126 1 the end, you -- you certify that you've done it, and they 2 have a way so you can't cheat them. You can't -- you can't 3 skip class and pass the thing. So, everybody that's recently 4 elected will have -- will have had that accomplished, I 5 think. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, but I want to get 7 in here up close and personal with the County Attorney, so I 8 can ask him, 'cause there's all kinds of little rumor things 9 going on around the state, and I want to ask him a question. 10 If I send an e-mail to Bruce, and he e-mails Letz with that 11 same -- with the same questions, Letz e-mails you with the 12 same question, is that an illegal meeting? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if it is or 15 not. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, it is. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't know if it is or 18 not for sure. But if Bruce responds back to me, I think 19 maybe it is, the way I understand it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What if it's a happy birthday 21 message? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, my god. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He hasn't had one of those. 24 Probably not going to get one. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that's the reason I want 1-14-13 127 1 to do it this way, so that we can have a conversation as 2 well. And -- but definitely open it up to anybody that the 3 thing applies to. We may have to move upstairs. Oh my lord. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. February 11th. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now we're ready to move on to 7 Item 22; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 8 T.C.E.Q. communication on Ingram Lake Dam. Commissioner 9 Oehler? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, got a letter from 11 T.C.E.Q. here a while back, and they wanted to know what 12 course of action we're going to take to do some of the final 13 little repairs on the dam that need to be done, I guess, in 14 their estimation, because of their dam inspection. And so I 15 think that we need to refer this to our little engineer out 16 there, Mr. Hewitt, and have him -- he and I sit down and make 17 out a list of things that we can do, and do it over a period 18 of time. These are not things that all -- there's not any 19 emergency that I know tied to any of these, but it needs to 20 be done. There's some vegetation that needs to be removed, 21 there's some caulking and things that need to be done in some 22 of the joints in the back side. We took care of the front 23 side pretty good, and most of the back side. But, anyway, I 24 think that we've probably waited as long as we need to wait 25 before we respond. 1-14-13 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they want a response by April 2 the 1st. But -- but the inquiry was whether you plan to 3 follow all the recommendations, or if there will be any 4 deviations from the recommendations. And, of course, that's 5 appropriate for the engineer to answer. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course. It's something I 7 can't answer. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: These are relative to safety? 9 Is that what they are? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's what they want 11 -- that's what they want to hang their hat on. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I don't think that's 14 really an issue, that -- that there's a big safety problem 15 with that dam washing out. We took care of that; we spent a 16 bunch of money on it last year, filling voids and just some 17 minor things that they'd like to see happen. They got to 18 find something wrong with everything they do. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So the idea is to do -- to get 20 the engineer to take a look at it and respond to their -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's already looked at it, 22 and so he knows what all this is about. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if the Court would 25 authorize me to meet with him and have him -- I'll bring back 1-14-13 129 1 his recommendations for the Court to approve or not approve 2 whenever they're done in the very near future. I think it 3 would be a good course of action. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we authorize 5 Commissioner Oehler to meet with Mr. John Hewitt in regards 6 to Ingram Dam and -- and this letter that he received from 7 T-quack, T.C.E.Q. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a motion. Do I hear a second? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Now 11 questions or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When you set that meeting up, 13 would you let me know? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just so I can play structural 16 engineer -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- with Hewitt, just for my 19 own edification? I'd appreciate it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. I don't have a 21 problem with it at all. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. Just want to learn 23 something. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause you've got two dams you 25 got to take care of. 1-14-13 130 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Well, I'm just 2 interested in what their -- what their concern is, and what 3 the criteria is. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 6 MAYOR PRATT: You want to fill up those cracks so 7 you don't get those endangered species trapped in them. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good luck. You're welcome to 9 go along. We got the report on it; it's just minor stuff. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Structural stuff is all 12 pretty much taken care of, but you're more than welcome to 13 attend. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wonder what the status of 16 Flat Rock Dam is. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You never heard anything? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I got was Ingram. 20 Flat Rock must have passed with flying colors. They didn't 21 have that much damage to start with, anyway. Ingram was the 22 one we thought was the least; it wound up having the most. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was there the day they did 1-14-13 131 1 the inspection. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's no further discussion, 3 all in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to Item 8 23; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to consider 9 appointment of courthouse square committee. Commissioner 10 Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, this is a holdover from, I 12 guess, late last year, mid-last year, sometime along that. I 13 keep pushing it down the road, and finally got to do 14 something with it. I think I said I would do it after the 15 first of the year, after the holidays were over. And, pretty 16 much, the -- what I hoped to accomplish with this is -- two 17 things, really, is to kind of look at the courthouse square, 18 and kind of develop an overall plan of what should be out 19 there, where things should be located. We have one item 20 that's kind of floating out there as a potential addition to 21 the courthouse square. But, anyway, we've had a lot of trees 22 die in the past couple years. We've had some offers for new 23 trees. And we also -- something else I've added is that we 24 really don't have a policy of the types of things that we 25 should encourage, if at all, to accept, and how long we 1-14-13 132 1 should be responsible for them, how long we should be 2 responsible for maintaining these things if we do accept 3 them, things of that nature, just have a little bit of a 4 policy. I know Commissioner Baldwin frequently says we can, 5 you know, always change our mind, or the next Court can do 6 what they want. Next meeting, we can do whatever we want, 7 but -- and that's true. But I think it does help to have a 8 guideline a little bit as to how we go forward. 9 People that contacted me or let me know one way or 10 the other are the ones that are on the committee. I 11 solicited a couple, but most of them came to me. And the 12 list is -- as you see, it's myself, Lynda Ables -- I 13 apologize, Lynda's name is spelled wrong; it's L-y, but I 14 realized it after I sent it. Kyle Bond, Dr. Bill Rector, 15 Doug Robertson, George Eychner, Joe Herring, Jr., 16 Beau Itschner, Tim Bollier, and Rosa Lavender. She's not 17 listed, but she's requested that she be on there. That's the 18 group. I tried to -- I went out and I contacted Doug 19 Robertson, primarily 'cause he's a landscape architect. I 20 thought it would be good to have someone that knows what 21 they're doing in these areas to serve on the committee. And 22 that's kind of the same reason Beau Itschner -- he's a 23 landscape architect as well. I don't think he's licensed 24 yet, 'cause he couldn't get a job, so he's working in the oil 25 field right now, but he does this on the side still quite a 1-14-13 133 1 bit, and Beau is the one that did the -- has done the CAD 2 drawings that we have now. 3 We do have a drawing for the committee to work off 4 of that is -- that the County owns. It's based on one that 5 the Christmas Lighting group did some years ago, and it had a 6 bunch of their utilities, bunch of their stuff on it, so he 7 went back over that, and the County now has their own CAD 8 drawing of the property so that we can put things on it, move 9 things around, things of that nature, and have a permanent 10 record of -- of a plan. And also, Maintenance can probably 11 put utilities on there so that will be memorialized as well 12 for some of these things. So, anyway, that's what it is. 13 I'll read the charge into the record of the committee. 14 Develop overall plan for courthouse square, including 15 location of current proposals and future additions, including 16 trees, walkways, and other structures. Then develop criteria 17 for considering future additions to courthouse square, 18 including gifts, trees, monuments, and other structures. The 19 recommendations shall consider such items as historical 20 significance, long-term viability, aesthetics, and other 21 items the committee considers relevant. That's pretty 22 open-ended. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think this is a long -- 25 in fact, I guaranteed Joe Herring that it was not -- wouldn't 1-14-13 134 1 be a long-serving committee. To me, this -- we should have 2 this done end of February. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't see this as a huge 5 project. I mean, there's not a whole lot that -- 6 MS. ABLES: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The trees are there. We're not 8 taking any trees out. We need to talk about where -- you 9 know, kind of a few things. And I think, you know, one of 10 the things that I think we need to look at is, we lost so 11 many trees on the outer edge of the courthouse square, there 12 were a combination of -- Buster referred to them as cedars, 13 and we had some cedar trees and mesquites, but we never did 14 replant any of them. As we look across the street now, you 15 do see -- I think they're probably pear trees right along 16 next to the other side of Main Street. I think they're pear. 17 But, you know, I don't know that we need to go with that, but 18 I think trees certainly help the downtown of any community. 19 Don't want to force them, necessarily, but I think trees 20 properly placed will be, you know, something to look at, and 21 not that expensive, usually. We probably can get most of 22 them donated. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Questions? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You asked for volunteers to be 1-14-13 135 1 on this. Is this everybody, or do you have more? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all. I believe you 3 forwarded one. I don't know -- I don't remember who it 4 was -- somebody, and she didn't want to serve. She 5 specifically said that she didn't want to serve, but she 6 would be glad to be a resource. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't remember who it was. 9 This is everyone that I'm aware of that wanted to be on it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. The other thing is, the 11 City is doing something in beautification of trying to look 12 down Sidney Baker for a consistent look, so I don't know if 13 you have -- you can talk to those people and just make sure 14 that there's -- the plan would consider that. Not to 15 necessarily do it, but at least consider it would be a good 16 idea. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably through the Parks 20 Department, I would imagine. 21 MAYOR PRATT: Beautification committee that was 22 just established and met last week for the first time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MAYOR PRATT: And Judy Webb-Smith is the chairman 25 of that committee. 1-14-13 136 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. ABLES: So, try and meet before the next 3 Commissioners meeting, maybe even? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After this week. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Stock show. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, not this week. 7 MS. ABLES: Not this week. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But next week, we can figure it 9 out. And I think I've got most of the people on the list's 10 e-mails, and if not, Jody can find them. And, anyway, any 11 other things we should look at? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a request, that if 13 there -- if there is some cost, that is -- let's see. You 14 have current proposals, so I'm assuming that there's some 15 other things going on out there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just one that I know of. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One thing. But if there was 18 costs, like for planting trees and that -- purchasing trees, 19 et cetera, personally, I'd like to see us get that in and get 20 it in -- get it in our budget process. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And either -- either put it 23 all in our budget, or individually purchase a tree or 24 whatever, however we choose to do that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think it needs to 1-14-13 137 1 be -- you know, this will certainly come back to the Court 2 for approval. I don't see any expenditure of funds here, 3 'cause Beau Itschner's agreed to do all the AutoCAD work for 4 no cost, which is pretty -- that would have been -- I mean, 5 that can be expensive. I mean, it's not a huge expense, but 6 still... But he's, you know, obviously part of this 7 community; family's been part of the community for a long, 8 long time, and he's very happy to help. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good boy. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I'll make a motion to -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've already got a motion, 12 don't we? No, we don't? Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to appoint 15 the committee, with the committee charge as presented. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With the addition of Rosa? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rosa. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. I have a motion and 20 second. All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. Let's go to 25 Item 24 now; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 1-14-13 138 1 designate Commissioners' and Judge's liaison appointments for 2 various functions for calendar year 2013. I know you've got 3 at least one in your backup material. That's mine, for 4 whatever it's worth. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What, now? Say all that 6 again? 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: No, yours isn't in there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 9 MS. GRINSTEAD: They just have the current one, not 10 yours. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have the new one? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They don't have the draft of the one 14 that I -- huh? 15 MS. GRINSTEAD: No, they don't have the draft that 16 you did. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we get copies of it? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: It's in your book; I can make you 20 copies right now. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this or is this not a 23 secret operation? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 25 (Judge Tinley pointed to Ms. Grinstead.) 1-14-13 139 1 MS. GRINSTEAD: Oh. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Whew. Man alive. Well, it was in 3 my backup materials, Commissioner. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Probably was in mine, but the 5 computer won't come up. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's not in there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's not in the computer either, 8 apparently. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm looking at the old -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I was trying to be nice. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's Little League's fault. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. Spending too much 13 time, all that wrangling. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This one that's coming here 15 is your suggestions? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Just my suggestions. That's all it 17 is, gentlemen. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. That's what you 19 call this? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But, like everything else I do, well 21 reasoned. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sure. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, one of them in here belongs to 25 me. Maybe not. Maybe I didn't get it back. 1-14-13 140 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's some extra ones here. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Did you get one? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I don't know about 4 the -- about Mr. Letz' feeling about being placed on the 5 Library Board, but I -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might be a short-term 7 appointment. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Might not even be viable any 9 more. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we don't know until after 11 we meet with the City. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's fine. I mean, 14 that's -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And these -- this is really 17 more of a comment for Tom, if he doesn't know. I mean, these 18 liaison positions don't give you any authority to do 19 anything. It's just that you're there to report information 20 back to make decisions. So, I mean, it's not -- you know -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Doesn't preclude any other -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't preclude any 23 Commissioner from being involved. If I want to go be 24 involved in library, I can go be involved in the library, if 25 I'm on the advisory board or not. 1-14-13 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You're just the primary conduit, 2 point of contact for that function. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of a go-to person. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The only -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, it's kind of like the deal 6 where if everything goes fine, you don't get credit for it, 7 but if it blows up, it's your responsibility. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The only suggestion I make is, 11 on Fire and EMS, that I could be on there with Buster. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any -- I don't 13 have an issue with it at all. But, like I told him, what I 14 do is simply go over there in the very beginning, the first 15 pitch out of the box, and find out what they want, and then 16 come back and report it to y'all. And then, actually, every 17 one of y'all go over there at some point in time and do the 18 negotiations, so that doesn't bother me at all. I mean, 19 you're going to get your shot at it anyway. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. That would be my only 21 suggested change. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another thing you do, too, as 23 liaison, you can help work through some situations just by 24 being a sounding board. You don't necessarily tell anybody 25 to do anything, but you can make suggestions, and they can -- 1-14-13 142 1 that's what I do with Animal Control, and also with 2 Environmental health. It's worked pretty well. Sometimes we 3 stop some of the stuff before it has to go any farther. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on subdivisions, it's just 5 listed as me, but it's really just because I get a lot of 6 questions referred to me. You need to be involved if it's in 7 your precinct. I don't want to -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You mean you don't want the 10 county-wide job for that? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, thank you. Especially you, 12 Bruce. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: If it comes to individual precincts, 14 you're going to get it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be glad to go and give 16 some interpretation to rules, but beyond that, you're on your 17 own. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What else is new? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to approve 20 the list -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as submitted by the County 23 Judge, with the addition of Mr. Moser on Fire and EMS. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second that emotion. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 1-14-13 143 1 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 2 raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Items 25; consider, 7 discuss, take appropriate action to file a request for Kerr 8 County pro rata distribution of proceeds from the Tobacco 9 Settlement Permanent Trust Account. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does that thing still have 11 money in it? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unbelievable, isn't it? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That was a huge amount of 14 money. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was defunct by 16 now. 17 MS. HARGIS: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They may be, but if you don't 20 ask, you don't receive, huh? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I assure you, gentlemen, we want to 22 apply for our pro rata part. Please give me the authority to 23 do that. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most certainly. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what this is, is 1-14-13 144 1 giving you the authority -- to do what? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever he wants. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do anything you want to do? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: To apply for our money. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve the 8 agenda item. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 11 indicated. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much did we get last year? 13 Do you remember? 14 MS. HARGIS: We didn't get very much last year; 15 about 9,000, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 100,000? 17 MS. HARGIS: Nine. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like finding it laying on 19 the ground while you're walking down the street. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't forget to sign that, 21 will you? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure won't. 23 MS. HARGIS: That's one of those funds that they 24 talked about that the Legislature has to go back and 25 distribute. There is money sitting there, and they have not 1-14-13 145 1 distributed it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be darned. 3 Unbelievable. 4 MS. HARGIS: They're sitting on it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that part of the rainy day 6 fund? 7 MS. HARGIS: No, it's not part of the rainy day 8 fund. I think it was part of their -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the slush fund. 10 MS. HARGIS: Trying to make it look like they were 11 better than they were. There's more than that up there. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: May I comment on that? That 13 was in my schooling this last week; that was one of the 14 things where the State just swept up a lot of money that's 15 supposed to go back to the counties. They swept it. They 16 call it "swept and kept" it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Swept and kept. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's the way they -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There isn't any indication 20 they're going to -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not sweep again. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not sweep again, right. But 23 there's a lot of -- lot of money up there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Except for jails. 1-14-13 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Ready for a vote? Yeah? 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yep. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, Letz isn't -- yeah, he's 4 ready. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, let's go to 11 26; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 12 various formal change orders to the show barn at the Hill 13 Country Youth Event Center. This includes some that we 14 approved, but we didn't have them in the form that they're 15 now in before us, as certified by the architect. One of 16 them, we didn't have at all. You've got the list of those? 17 I didn't get a list. Is it on here? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is. Let me look. Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And so, as a matter of caution, just 21 to make sure that we've got everything -- I's dotted and T's 22 crossed, it includes PR-11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, which, of 23 course, was the chemical doser that we heard about verbally. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But includes them all, all that have 1-14-13 147 1 not been formally approved before. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That should be all of them. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know of any more. 5 And that door has been installed. It is off the restroom, 6 the one on there, the temperature door. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Temp door? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the one between the 9 old exhibit hall and the new show barn. It is operational as 10 of last week. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good for a project of 12 that size with change orders, and only $7,300 more than the 13 original project cost. And that was with a whole lot of 14 modifications and changes because of fire lines and things of 15 that nature. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty minimal. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Did Gary actually 18 sign each and every one of these? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, they're all in the proper 20 format sitting right here in front of me. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of -- do you 22 want to -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Want to take a look at them right 24 there? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of PR-11, PR-12, 1-14-13 148 1 PR-13, costs associated with the state tap fee, PR-15, PR-16, 2 and PR-17. Total amount is a deduction of $4,781.83. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 6 raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 27; 11 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on application and 12 certificate for payment to Journeyman Construction for the 13 show barn at the Hill Country Youth Event Center. This is, 14 again, certification from the architect. The only thing 15 remaining after this payment will be the retainage of 16 $170,433.64, if I'm reading this correctly. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That should be correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's exactly where it should 19 be at this point. Final payment. And, of course, we'll hold 20 the retainage for the applicable period of time, and away we 21 go. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that's up -- that's 23 30 days, isn't it? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's right. The 25 contract spells it out. 1-14-13 149 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the agenda 3 item. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 7 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 28, 12 Mr. Garcia's asked that we pass that at this point. We'll go 13 to our addendum, Item 29; consider, discuss, take appropriate 14 action regarding revisions to the following county personnel 15 policies: One, Policy 6.04, work hours; two, Policy 6.07, 16 time and attendance records/timekeeping; and three, Policy 17 6.08 -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have them, Judge? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 MS. LANTZ: Sorry, these did not get attached to 21 the thing. So, basically what this is is amending our 22 current policy to reflect our change in our payroll cycle for 23 biweekly. Previously, everything in our policy book stated 24 semi-monthly, so corrections were made to reflect our new 25 biweekly pay structure and our time entry within the system 1-14-13 150 1 of Incode. And I did have the County Attorney review the 2 policy, and he did make some corrections on it, and we did 3 include those corrections within the updated policies. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Ms. Lantz, would you go through and 5 just talk about the changes in each of them? Let's get that 6 out in the open. 7 MS. LANTZ: Okay. Basically, on the first one, 8 6.04, with the work hours, the changes that we did include 9 there were in the second sentence. One hour for lunch, 10 equals 40-hour work week, with the exception of law 11 enforcement. We added that in there because law enforcement, 12 Juvenile Detention, and Juvenile Probation work a little bit 13 differently, because they are on a 12-hour pay cycle. The 14 next correction would be the second paragraph. The official 15 work week is a seven-day work week. We did change that to 16 reflect -- for the purpose of recordkeeping, to determine 17 overtime and compliance with the Fair Labor Standards Act. 18 To get into compliance, we changed our work hours beginning 19 12:01 a.m. on each Sunday and ending seven consecutive days 20 later. Or in the case with law enforcement, they work 171 21 hours or 168 hours before we pay out overtime or comp time. 22 And then one of the other things we did omit on the work 23 hours, there was an exception where we had Juvenile 24 Probation, Juvenile Detention, and Road and Bridge personnel 25 working various shifts, which the only time other departments 1-14-13 151 1 do that is if we had weather conditions for Road and Bridge 2 coming out. So, we just took that out, because they do work 3 40 hours a week. 4 On 6.07, we did change that according to -- 5 according to records, time worked. We took "worked" out. It 6 is the responsibility of the -- all employees to keep their 7 time off and recordkeeping within the new timekeeping system 8 so that way we can accurately pay them. The exempt employees 9 will still -- you know, they won't get paid for their 10 overtime, because they're exempt. However, we do ask that 11 they do keep their records like all the other employees. The 12 records will be included in all the actual time spent on the 13 job and performing their assigned duties, even non-work 14 times, such as sick, vacation, and holiday pay, just document 15 within the system. The other thing is, we had all nonexempt 16 Kerr County employees omitted, and we just put to encompass 17 all Kerr County employees, besides elected officials, would 18 put their time into the time entry system. And then the last 19 thing on this section, Policy 6.07, we omitted a section that 20 said subject to the Texas Penal Code, falsifying time sheets, 21 you know, is a Class A misdemeanor. We just rephrased that, 22 saying that anyone falsifying a time record may be subject to 23 the employee being -- for termination, as well as criminal 24 prosecution. It's still within the penal code, but it's just 25 a little bit more clarified. 1-14-13 152 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Lantz, should there be a 2 statement about elected officials in here? Or is it just -- 3 is it the next one, Rob? 4 MR. HENNEKE: What kind of statement? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it says all Kerr County 6 employees will personally enter their time in the time entry 7 system. No elected official is required to do it, but we are 8 employees. 9 MR. HENNEKE: No, you're really not. I mean, for 10 this purpose. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not employees? 12 MR. HENNEKE: You're not an employee. You're -- I 13 mean, there's two categories. There's one -- there's one 14 that's on the ballot, and there's everyone else. And 15 everyone else are employees. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay. 17 MS. LANTZ: And that does reflect on Policy 6.08, 18 pay for, you know, the elected officials. It's just 19 appointed. I think that was one of the corrections that was 20 made. It says specifically county elected officials and 21 employees are set each year by the Commissioners Court. We 22 took out appointed, and just left elected, so I think that 23 kind of fits under that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff has risen to declare 1-14-13 153 1 that he wants to fill in a time sheet and send it in. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not that. My question is 3 over the exempt. We had agreed, I think, partially on -- 4 like, such as exempt employees. And Rob can voice his 5 opinion on this. I have -- I think it's five exempt 6 employees in my department; my two captains, the chief 7 deputy, and jail administrator are the primary ones. What we 8 had come to an agreement with is they do time entry to keep 9 track of their vacation and sick leave, but not a daily time 10 sheet. The issue I have with that is, these people take lots 11 of phone calls at night, and they're putting in a lot of time 12 that's hard to put in on a time sheet, because they may spend 13 two or three hours a night on the phone over something going 14 on in patrol or in the jail or anything else. And so what I 15 had advised them, since they are exempt, it doesn't -- a time 16 sheet doesn't count except for the vacation and sick leave. 17 That all they're required to do by my internal policy is any 18 sick leave or any vacation does have to be entered on the 19 time sheets, but their daily hours do not, because it just 20 makes it too hard to do that in so many different situations 21 that we run across. 22 MR. HENNEKE: See, Rusty, I think that even with 23 the exempt employees, that everyone needs to show, you know, 24 a minimum of 40 hours a week. I mean, if you take a 25 five-minute phone call in the evening, -- 1-14-13 154 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish they were five minutes. 2 MR. HENNEKE: -- that's one thing. But, you know, 3 I do think that even exempt employees need to show, you know, 4 with as much accuracy as they can, their work week, because 5 it has to be at least 40 hours a week. Otherwise, then 6 either they're -- you know, you need to take vacation or sick 7 leave or, you know, then it would be leave without pay. So, 8 there needs to be at least that -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course, my exempt employees 10 fall under the 171, not the 40-hour week, which is different, 11 and it just makes it very difficult. You know, I can stand 12 here and guarantee you everybody's going to put in their 40 13 hours. They're going to put in a whole lot more than those 14 40 hours because of the nature of their job duties. They 15 don't have a choice but to put in more than 40 hours. And I 16 just disagree that those individuals -- because how do you 17 enter, if it's the same day -- say it's today. How do you 18 enter, you know, four, five, or six different phone calls 19 between 8 p.m. yesterday and 7 a.m. today that may last 20 anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour, depending on anything 21 going on at the jail, 'cause they've got to -- and then come 22 back in and enter an 8-hour day or a 10-hour day on top of 23 it? It just -- most agencies that I've seen, that their 24 exempt employees do exactly what I said. They keep track of 25 their sick and their vacation on their time sheet. But due 1-14-13 155 1 to the nature that they're exempt, and it's -- you're 2 salaried for the year and that's it, you're not getting 3 anything different, and you're not going to ever get 4 overtime. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand you 6 correctly. In order to totally automate the system, in order 7 for a paycheck to be issued to anybody except an elected 8 official, they've got to enter into the time system to be 9 totally automated? 10 MS. LANTZ: We have it set up right now where 11 everybody is an 80-hour -- it's going to pay everyone 80 12 hours for biweekly. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. LANTZ: The exception from the time sheet will 15 roll over, meaning if they have extra time, hourly employees, 16 into the comp bank. Or, for example, an exempt employee will 17 be paid whether it -- it's logged into the system or not. 18 But if we ever get audited, we have to have some type of 19 record showing what the actual employee did work, and that's 20 the purpose of the example like the County Attorney has said. 21 Yes, we can document leave if they are salaried. However, 22 you know, to prove their actual work hours -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But my feeling about that is, 24 we're not trying to prove that they did not get paid for 25 hours that they worked, as you would on most people, you 1-14-13 156 1 know, that come back and file these claims and that. They 2 try and claim, "I worked 15 hours; y'all only paid me for 8." 3 Okay? That's what's your claims are. On an exempt employee, 4 what you're -- what you're proving then is that they did work 5 their hours that they're hired to work. And if you've got a 6 department head or an elected official that is not seeing to 7 it that his exempt employees -- his or hers -- aren't doing 8 their job, there's a lot more serious problem than what we 9 have. But it just makes it a nightmare, because if you force 10 this on them to keep it, then they're going to want to enter 11 all those 30 minutes on the phone, and they're entitled to 12 them. And I think just by leaving it blank, with their sick 13 leave and their vacation, the county benefits have to be kept 14 track of, that it just makes it a lot simpler to deal with 15 those exempt employees. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But isn't it, I mean, pretty 17 much that they're -- it's to guarantee they're working at 18 least eight hours, or a 40-hour week? Not as much -- you 19 know, they could work, they could enter it in, the days 20 they're working, and then everyone knows they're doing 21 additional time. I mean, probably every department head we 22 have -- or every exempt employee we have is probably working 23 more than 40 hours. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But then this employee, when 25 he's entering it, he's saying, "All y'all will allow me to 1-14-13 157 1 enter is the eight hours that I'm working. I'm really 2 working 10 or 12, okay? Why don't I get to enter that too?" 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You can. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Enter 12 hours. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's going to be hard to 8 enter. It only keeps track of hours. 9 MS. LANTZ: We have one department head right now 10 who's entering all his hours that is -- that are being 11 worked. So, I mean -- 12 MR. HENNEKE: All of them should. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Dawn, and that's not a 14 problem? If somebody is exempt and they work 60 hours a 15 week, and they're paid for 40, that's not an issue, even 16 though it's recorded that they're working 60? 'Cause one 17 time in my previous life, there was a problem, but it's 18 probably not today, okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If some court ever ruled that, 20 "Oh, you know what? They weren't exempt." 21 MS. LANTZ: Then we'll have to go back. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then you're going to have a 23 big problem, because now you showed them working all the 24 hours when you considered them exempt, and you never paid 25 them for it. 1-14-13 158 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Sheriff, if you've got some 2 that you've got classified as exempt that are not exempt, I 3 think it behooves you to make sure that you have them 4 properly classified. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, for my purposes, I'd 6 love to classify a lot more as exempt, 'cause my overtime 7 budget would last a lot better. But, no, you're -- we're all 8 working on the bare minimum. You understand that, Judge, on 9 what we have exempt. But these employees would rather just 10 keep track of their sick and their vacation. I agree with 11 that, 'cause none of the other time matters. And I just 12 don't see this policy being applicable to them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the problem comes in 14 that you can't make exceptions. Either has to be 15 everybody -- 'cause in this situation, law enforcement isn't 16 any different than Animal Control, Environmental Health, you 17 know, Human Resources. They all are working various times. 18 And, you know, I think it's probably important to keep track 19 of the minimum amount they're working. If they want to, you 20 know, spend the time to put in every 30-minute time segment, 21 that's fine, but they can also just put in, you know 8:00 to 22 8:00, have a 12-hour period. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, let me suggest to you that 24 you might find it beneficial, if they put in all this extra 25 time, come budget time and you want additional personnel. 1-14-13 159 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We tried that in the past. I 2 -- I agree with you, Judge. Now, there are some benefits to 3 me, okay, personally because of the hours that they work. 4 But, you know, we also all know that the bottom line's going 5 to become, well, they should have known that when they took 6 that position. It's not going to gather me more personnel. 7 I mean, I just think it's an unnecessary step for those 8 exempt employees trying to do everything else and prove to 9 everybody else time entry, 'cause we've got two levels of 10 approval it all goes through. 11 MS. LANTZ: And I'll say that -- I will say this is 12 our first two weeks of time entry, and every exempt employee 13 has put in their time, including your employees. So -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know of one. 15 MS. LANTZ: Well, some -- it was submitted as 16 through payroll, and we doublechecked it. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's submitted because it is 18 -- it's there because of the sick and the vacation. There is 19 a time entry there, but it is not reflecting the hours 20 worked. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I feel like Commissioner Letz 22 does. You know, if we're going to have a policy, the policy 23 needs to be effective. And, you know, if they don't want to 24 put down some time, that's up to them, but I think they need 25 to at least put down enough to certify that they're -- 1-14-13 160 1 they're putting in at least 40 hours a week. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It just gets to -- they're 3 really pushing accuracy with all their employees, 'cause it 4 is a criminal act, it will be, on accuracy. And if they 5 spend time doing other things and all that late at night or 6 things, that's just one of those issues I think we need to 7 discuss. Whatever the Court desires, though. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we even have a motion yet? 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: She hasn't finished, has she? 10 MS. LANTZ: That was -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got one more, 6.08. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. LANTZ: 6.08, the first sentence. Actually, 15 the only thing that was taken out was, pay for county 16 elected, the appointed officials was taken out, as well as -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. LANTZ: -- were paid from county funds. So, it 19 just reads basically, pay for Kerr County elected officials 20 and employees are set each year by the Commissioners Court in 21 the adopted county operating budget. And those rules 22 governing salary administration and pay increases are 23 established by the Commissioners Court. So, basically, 24 Commissioners Court has the authority to designate the pay. 25 Payday's changed. Paragraph under "Employees may utilize 1-14-13 161 1 direct deposit," that remains the same. However, paychecks 2 will not be issued other than the day as set forth under 3 paydays. Pay checks will not be issued if a current time and 4 attendance record has not been submitted to Human Resources. 5 And that's how we can see that everybody's submitted their 6 time, and we do a doublecheck as far as even when we budget 7 our payroll with the GL file with the Auditor's office, so 8 she can do her audits correctly to make sure we're within 9 compliance with the funds within payroll. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- can an employee log on 11 from their home computer, or not? 12 (Ms. Lantz shook her head.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm thinking is, payday -- 14 say something -- I'm sure there's some mechanism for if 15 someone has the flu and can't get in to submit their time 16 sheet. 17 MS. LANTZ: The department head does it, or someone 18 designated. There is a backup with the -- every department 19 that can do that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MS. LANTZ: As well as an approval. They have 22 designated -- if the department head is out, they can get 23 either H.R. or someone else to get their time approved. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This week -- this pay time 1-14-13 162 1 that we're in right now, tomorrow is the 15th, but the actual 2 payday is not until Friday. 3 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that's how this thing is 5 working. Is it working? Is this the first time that it's 6 been a little bit different? 7 MS. LANTZ: To do payroll? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the pay -- first pay 9 schedule that it's been different from the way it's been 10 before? 11 MS. LANTZ: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't paid any attention 13 to it, I'm sorry. This is the first one? 14 MS. LANTZ: In the past, we've had to process a 15 week prior to our actual payroll date, which meant that if 16 employees were off a week, they were getting paid in advance. 17 Now we're actually getting paid for the hours that are being 18 worked. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Yeah, groovy. 20 MS. LANTZ: That's basically the changes on that 21 last one, 6.08. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move we accept the 23 recommendation of H.R. Director Lantz and approve the county 24 personnel policy changes as presented. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 1-14-13 163 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 3 signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Has it been 8 exciting enough for you, Mark? 9 MR. ARMSTRONG: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the lead story? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That ain't going to be it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4 of the agenda, 13 payment of the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to make a 15 motion that we pay our bills. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: State your motion, please, 17 Commissioner. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pay our bills. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Do I hear a 20 second? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that we pay 23 our bills. Further question or discussion? All in favor, 24 signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-14-13 164 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 4 budget amendments. Looks like we have two, one from the 5 Sheriff's Department, and another from Election Services. 6 MS. HARGIS: In the Sheriff's Department, he has 7 used up all of his investigative expenses, and we agreed to 8 move that $1,000 to cover for a little while longer. So, we 9 will probably have to move more money in there. We've had 10 some cases that we haven't used it in the past, but this year 11 we did. On the second one, the Election Services, as you can 12 see, we spent far more in the judges than we had budgeted. 13 She had an election expense item that she had not had before, 14 and it had not been used. So, we basically balanced out the 15 judges, but we are going to have more money for judges, 16 because we will have another election in May, I think. And 17 we do -- if we have the city or the schools, they'll pay for 18 that themselves, but I think we do have one more election 19 that we need a judge out here. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we have in May? 21 What's the election in May? 22 MAYOR PRATT: City. 23 MS. HARGIS: The city. They had -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's no expense to us. 25 MS. HARGIS: -- an amendment, but I don't know what 1-14-13 165 1 this is. 2 MR. HENNEKE: The constitutional amendments are on 3 the November ballot. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 5 MS. HARGIS: So -- but needless to say, we're over 6 in that, and she has no more -- she pretty much has no more 7 money in the ballot expense. This -- this budget's pretty 8 much expended, most of the whole budget. So, we're going to 9 have to sit down and work with this one. We're just going to 10 do it line item by line item, like we have in the past, as we 11 need to do it, and see how it lays out, rather than make a 12 big change right now. Most of them are still in budget, but 13 this one was, you know, out, and we need to fix this one. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, I don't -- 15 there's no way we could -- or anybody could prepare for that 16 last election and all the activities that went around that 17 thing. That was a -- that was a nightmare down there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Took three Philadelphia lawyers to 19 figure out when it was going to be. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No kidding. 21 MAYOR PRATT: Judge, the city -- the city charter 22 is under review right now. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MAYOR PRATT: There can be a possibility of an 25 election -- probably won't be this year; maybe next year. If 1-14-13 166 1 they change it, they could change that from May to November, 2 that election. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They have to be in November? 4 MAYOR PRATT: No, I'm saying that could be a 5 recommendation coming back. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. But if there are changes to 7 be voted on, they will be in November? Is that what I heard 8 you say? 9 MAYOR PRATT: No, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, the election could move 11 to November. 12 MAYOR PRATT: The city elections could be moved 13 from May to November. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the city election, you 15 guys reimburse us for that anyway, under contract. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So we're good with that. What we're 18 doing right now on that -- 19 MAYOR PRATT: I'm just talking about for budget 20 purposes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budget amendment is, we're just 22 zeroing out this deficit that's in there now, and we're just 23 putting her down to baseline, zero. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just knew that he was 25 going to ask you for all of us to go over and help them 1-14-13 167 1 rewrite their charter. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he realizes there's a lot of 3 expertise on this body, and that's probably coming. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, observing the Little 5 League thing today. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what else was it? 8 MAYOR PRATT: Just like grand jury. You just 9 scratch -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like grand jury. 11 MAYOR PRATT: You were the first one scratched, 12 Buster. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion to approve 14 the budget amendments as set forth in the budget amendment 15 request summary? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Items 1 and 2. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 21 raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Late bills. It 1-14-13 168 1 appears that we have two. One is to Katrina J. Morris. The 2 other is to Journeyman Construction. We actually approved 3 that under the architect's certification, so really, the only 4 one we have to -- what we've done under the architect 5 certification is adequate for you to go ahead and pay that 6 one, I assume, isn't it, Ms. Hargis? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes, but -- yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Or Madam Treasurer? 9 MS. SOLDAN: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, really, the only one 11 we're dealing with is Katrina Morris, $1,470 for 12 Court-appointed civil attorney. I note here that it appears 13 that it's 1/12, 2/12, and 3/12. I assume those are either 14 months or quarters? 15 MS. HARGIS: Months. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So this is the 2012 budget. 17 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm. 19 MS. HARGIS: And I understand that she does this 20 every year; she's a year behind. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say she needs to get 22 current if she wants to be paid. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, wait a minute. I'm 24 glad you pointed that out. What -- now, why -- 25 MS. HARGIS: I don't know why, sir, but -- 1-14-13 169 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me who she is. 2 MS. HARGIS: She is a C.P.S. attorney. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I say no. I can't 4 say no, can I? (Laughter.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I had an earlier -- let me follow up 6 on that, Commissioner. I had an earlier discussion with 7 Ms. Hargis about this particular individual, and what I 8 recommended to Ms. Hargis was -- was that until we put her on 9 notice, it may be difficult for us to deny that. But that -- 10 that there be a letter issued to her, signed by both the 11 Auditor and myself, that she needs to submit her requests for 12 payment on a timely basis in these cases, and any that are 13 submitted that are not within the current budget year will 14 not be paid in the future. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. In the future. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's putting her on 18 notice. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then you can say no. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, this $1,470 comes out 22 of what, now? It certainly doesn't come out of last year's 23 budget. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Comes out of the current 25 year's budget. 1-14-13 170 1 MS. HARGIS: Has to come out of the current year. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And let's get specific, 3 where it will come out of. 4 MS. HARGIS: We have a line item for the C.P.S. 5 attorneys. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MS. HARGIS: It just makes it more difficult for us 8 to reach our budget in the current year when we have 9 attorneys that are running behind. We do run into this a 10 little bit with some of the court cases where the judges have 11 asked them to wait till the trial is over. We understand 12 that. But this is not the case in this particular instance. 13 This is an ongoing type of an assignment. If you look at the 14 billing, it's almost identical every month, because they're 15 visiting with the same children, or -- or I assume it's 16 children. And they've been assigned to check -- you know, 17 make visitations and things of that nature. So, we have 18 several C.P.S. attorneys; most of them on time. This is the 19 only one that's not. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll make a motion that we 21 pay Katrina Morris her $1,470, and also authorize the Judge 22 and the Auditor to give formal notice that this will not 23 happen if bills are not issued in a timely fashion, within 24 the budget year they are incurred. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that. 1-14-13 171 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we in a position to do that 2 under this agenda item? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually not. 4 MR. HENNEKE: Well, I think because of the 5 circumstances -- I mean, I don't know that there needs to be 6 actual authorization as to the -- the notice. The bill's to 7 be paid. And to be honest, before I became County Attorney, 8 I took some of this appointed work, and it was always the 9 case that you had to get your bills in on a timely basis, and 10 specifically by the end of the budget year. So, a friendly 11 reminder is -- is nice, but she should already know that she 12 should have gotten her bills in beforehand. So, I think -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: A little more sternly worded than a 14 friendly reminder? 15 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. I think that's what I 16 would send. I don't think that needs to be on the agenda. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you suggest I rescind my 18 motion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to take my second 20 back. I want to be first. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll make it happen. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still have to approve 23 payment, though. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion and second 25 for payment of the late bill? I don't think we got one, do 1-14-13 172 1 we? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we pulled it back. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, as long as she 5 understands that this won't happen again. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I will make the communication. 7 I can't guarantee you what she's going to understand. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get that Little League bunch 9 back in here. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Get your 12 best friends in here, 11 Jon. Okay. Do you want to restate your motion to just pay 12 the late bill? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just pay the late bill to 14 Ms. Katrina Morris, $1,470. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. I'll second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Got 17 a fresh bidder in here. You want in now? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dadgum. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 20 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I've been presented 25 with monthly reports from Justice of the Peace for December 1-14-13 173 1 2012 -- Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; Justice of the 2 Peace, Precinct 2 for December 2012; Justice of the Peace, 3 Precinct 3, December 2012; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4, 4 for December 2012; Constable, Precinct 4, for December 2012; 5 County Clerk for December 2012; District Clerk for December 6 2012; amended report for District Clerk for December 2012; 7 Kerr County Environmental Health Department, 2012 end-of-year 8 report; County Treasurer, payroll approved for December 2012; 9 audit report, District Clerk trust accounts; and audit 10 report, County Clerk trust accounts. Do I hear a motion that 11 the indicated reports be approved as presented? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 15 indicated reports be approved as presented. Further question 16 or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Auditor was trying to tell 18 me something; I couldn't understand what she was saying. 19 MS. HARGIS: I'll give you a copy of those reports 20 if you so wish. I put them in your box. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want them. Save the 22 paper. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was she talking to you in 24 sign language? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 1-14-13 174 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or lipreading? 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is there two places to sign? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's just on either side. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, got you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Did I get a vote? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Okay. Now, reports 14 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or 15 committee assignments. Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything. 17 I mean, I've spent a lot of time out at Road and Bridge 18 recently going over some new contracts that they're working 19 on with -- or recommend to the Court at some point; the 20 Subdivision Rules and, you know, who's going to do our -- our 21 work. Right now we're using Mr. Wells, but there's some 22 others that may want to do it that are more local. But other 23 than that -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a report on the Little 25 League situation? 1-14-13 175 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Well, we met after -- 2 after -- during the lunch break, we met a little bit further 3 in the hall, and I think we moved maybe a little bit further 4 towards an agreement. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I found out one -- I did 7 understand for the first time one of their big concerns, and 8 we can work that into an agreement with them. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just stock show stuff going 11 on. Road and Bridge has got the parking lot rebladed and 12 rolled after the rain last week. That -- it really got a 13 soaking, so it ought to be in good shape now. It was being 14 put back. And they're finishing all the alleyway with some 15 black base to make the drainage continue to work there and be 16 able for animals to walk across without sinking in or making 17 -- having a problem. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a temporary fix, isn't it? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It could be -- it probably is 20 temporary, but it could become somewhat permanent. That 21 is -- there's going to be hopefully some more construction 22 going on there in part of that area that's going to have -- 23 you know, it may be temporary, but we don't know how long it 24 will be before it all gets -- or if there's really a need to 25 do concrete back. We might just sealcoat over the top of it. 1-14-13 176 1 I don't know. At this point, we just have to wait and see 2 how it works out as time goes on. I got word here that there 3 is 90,000 gallons of water in the rainwater system now since 4 the last rain. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you tell that? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess -- I don't know if 7 there's marks on it or not, but that's according to the 8 rainwater guy. 9 MR. HENNEKE: You take a one-gallon bucket... 10 (Laughter.) 90,000 times. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take a syphon hose like you 12 used to steal gas out of cars, you know. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I drove out there and looked 14 at that thing the other day. I was kind of looking for some 15 kind of little flag or something to pop up, or -- but I 16 couldn't tell. 17 AUDIENCE: There's a float on it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couldn't tell by just 19 looking at it from the car, -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I take it there's a float. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- how it worked. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is there a schedule published 23 for all the activities? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where's it published? 1-14-13 177 1 JUDGE TINLEY: By West Kerr Current. You got it? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was one in the local 3 paper, I think. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably. I saw it in the West 5 Kerr. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: West Kerr may have had it too. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: May have listed it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry, Mark. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we got one in our 10 deal of stock show stuff that had a little card in it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little daisy on it? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've got that at home with 14 the sale deal, buyer's number. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I'll find it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You get the number -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Hello over here. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all you have? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. There's something 23 we need to talk about a little bit, and I keep forgetting to 24 talk about, but now I remembered to talk about it, so I want 25 to talk about it now. 1-14-13 178 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you talk about it now, 2 Commissioner? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate -- appreciate 4 that. In Kerrville South, in Precinct Number 2, there is a 5 piece of property to build a fire station on that we newly 6 acquired within the last two years, I guess, something like 7 that. And we have put just a rough number in the budget for 8 some concrete, and that property is sitting there. Beautiful 9 piece of property; it truly is. It's just sitting there 10 doing nothing. Nothing has been done. Would you like -- I 11 mean, it's your precinct, man. I can't do everything around 12 here. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And your question is? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to get involved in your 16 precinct for a fire station? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should I give you the 18 information on it? Or -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure, give me the information. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- are we just going to let 21 this thing die? When are you going to start working in your 22 precinct? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That doesn't even deserve a 25 comment. 1-14-13 179 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like an ambush to me. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Put that in the record. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's absolutely true. 5 Nevertheless -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Any more jokes? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, if you want 8 to get 'er done, I'll help you. Give you numbers. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Moser? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I couldn't follow that up with 13 anything. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Elected officials? 15 Department heads? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exempt or nonexempt -- 17 nonexempt people? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a red pen you can mark 19 your time sheet with. 20 MS. LANTZ: That's mine. You're out, Rusty. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I guess I done got demoted. 22 Jail population last week was staying up a little over 140, 23 with the mid-20's, the females. I don't know what happened 24 over the weekend, but today we're at 21 with females, and 25 back down to -- to the 120's, mid to upper 120's. So, some 1-14-13 180 1 things worked out, hopefully, with -- hopefully with the 2 198th with their changeover, starting to get their feet on 3 the ground with Scott and that, that that can help things 4 pick up a little bit. There will be probably most likely an 5 issue that I'll put on a future agenda at some point. I have 6 been invited to attend both the Center Point School Board 7 meeting and the Hunt School Board meeting in reference to 8 school safety officers in the school or CHL's in the school, 9 whatever they decide. But I think they wanted to ask some 10 questions. The Judge and I visited a little bit about it. I 11 was blessed enough to get a copy of the type of contract the 12 City has with K.I.S.D. and the police department, and we'll 13 work along those guidelines. And I'll visit with those two 14 schools and school boards to see where that goes. We did 15 have one incident this weekend that I won't go into too much, 16 but one of my officers did attempt to serve two felony 17 warrants on a man, and the officer ended up getting a gun 18 drawn on him, and it was a very serious situation where the 19 end result ended up being the man committed suicide in front 20 of several officers. So, I do have -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Not shot by a cop. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cop didn't pull the trigger; 23 the man did. But, yes, and that was even after a less lethal 24 weapon was used on him, and it -- it failed to work as far 25 as, you know, incapacitating him enough to be able to -- to 1-14-13 181 1 take him into custody peacefully. But it was a very bad 2 situation all the way around. The officers involved did have 3 to -- and probably will continue to have to go through some 4 debriefing, counseling-type stuff. And it's just one of the 5 things we're going to deal with, 'cause it was one of those 6 where it's very fortunate no officers were hurt, but it did 7 end up with one man taking his life. And I do thank, in 8 front of the mayor -- Kerrville Police Department responded 9 to that call and assisted us dramatically in that call, 10 negotiations with the actual less lethal, and, you know, 11 their -- some of his officers are also going to have to go 12 through some of the counseling. 13 MAYOR PRATT: You might also mention there was one 14 round discharged before he committed suicide. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. So it was -- but 16 not -- there was two -- 17 MAYOR PRATT: Nobody hurt. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. Two rounds less 19 lethal, and two rounds from the suspect's own weapon were 20 fired. But it was one of those situations where it was all 21 within a few inches of each other, and it was just a very 22 long weekend for all those officers, and that man's family, 23 'cause he comes from a very good family. Had a long visit 24 with his mother. One of her big concerns was officers. But 25 they're a good family. It's just -- can't control 1-14-13 182 1 everything. Somebody bound on committing suicide, it's kind 2 of hard to prevent it no matter how hard you try. Other than 3 that -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry to hear that. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hope we're a lot better the 6 rest of the year. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jail capacity, the head of the 8 Sheriff's association in the state reported last week that 9 jails are, like, at 60 percent capacity. Is that 10 representative of surrounding counties, or are they higher, 11 lower than that? Do you know? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably -- I'm sure 13 that's an overall figure statewide. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, it was. It was 15 statewide. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just averaged out. If you 17 look at surrounding -- I guess Bandera and Kendall are pretty 18 close. Gillespie's in the process of starting to break 19 ground to build theirs because of the bond issue passing; 20 they're having to do more. Now, ours has been well over 60 21 percent for years. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. You know, it just 24 varies county to county. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right, thank you. 1-14-13 183 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty -- nevermind, I'll ask 2 you later. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Ray? 4 MR. GARCIA: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney? 6 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. Two things. One, I just 7 wanted to let y'all know this year we've started -- last -- 8 beginning of last year, prosecuting bond forfeitures. We 9 were having a lot of -- significant number of individuals 10 that weren't coming for the criminal docket for County Court 11 at Law, which was wasting more time with law enforcement, 12 with the court system and the clerk's office. And with 13 beginning to prosecute bond forfeitures, those bonding 14 companies are really out there hustling, getting their people 15 to court. And the first -- first reason for it is just to 16 make sure people show up to court, but the other reason is 17 when they don't, the County will realize some sort of 18 windfall from the bonds that are forfeited. And I gave 19 Ms. Hargis today a check for $2,500 made to Kerr County for 20 one of the bonds that was for forfeited, and I've asked her 21 to keep a separate line item for this year just so we can 22 track and see, you know, what kind of revenue comes in off of 23 that. The other thing I wanted to ask, I don't do a lot of 24 business through the District Clerk's Office, but I do do 25 some, and I know that the appointment of Linda's replacement 1-14-13 184 1 is up with the District Judges. But if it hasn't been 2 discussed, and if it's possible that that appointment can be 3 made to where there could be some overlap between the new 4 person and when she leaves, if there's money available in the 5 budget, I think that would be a good idea. And I don't have 6 any idea what the District Judges' timing is, but that's 7 going to be an enormous transition anyway, and we're getting 8 pretty close to the end of Linda's tenure. So, if we know 9 anything about that or can encourage that, I would concur. 10 Maybe give the new person a week or so to figure out where 11 the light switches are. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Anything else 13 to come before the Court on this agenda? We're adjourned. 14 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:52 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-14-13 185 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 21st day of January, 8 2013. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-14-13