1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, July 29, 2013 11 10:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 29, 2013 2 PAGE 3 1. Review and discuss FY 2013-14, individual department budgets 3 4 2. Review and discuss FY 2013-14 requests for 5 additional personnel; review and discuss compensation for department heads and individual 6 employee compensations and other individual increases not mandated by the current policy; 7 review and discuss changes or additions to step and grade schedule and restructuring departments 25 8 --- Adjourned 31 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, July 29, 2013, at 10:30 a.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 7 we might. Let me call to order the Commissioners Court 8 workshop posted and scheduled for this date and time, Monday 9 July 29, 2013, at 10:30 a.m. We're missing it by about an 10 hour, but that's close enough. There are two items on the 11 workshop agenda. Review and discuss fiscal year 2013-14 12 individual department budgets. Commissioner Moser asked that 13 this item be placed on the workshop agenda, so I'm going to 14 defer to him at this point. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you, Judge. As I 16 mentioned two or three workshops ago, I would like to have 17 had the opportunity, which I took the advantage of talking to 18 department heads about their line items in the budget, 19 looking to see -- and what I did is I looked primarily at the 20 actuals we had last year versus what was budgeted, budget 21 requests for this year. And with that background, then I 22 looked at some things that we did not discuss in the 23 departments' operating budgets, and that was library, 24 volunteer fire departments, and -- and COLAs for retirees. 25 So, I've handed you some talking points; presentation, if you 7-29-13 bwk 4 1 would. 2 And on the first one with the library, I've said 3 this in the past, but I want to repeat some of it, bring some 4 of it up to date. The library situation is such that that 5 library is the information resource center for Kerr County. 6 It's the primary resource information center. It -- the 7 library is -- is one of the premiere services in the county. 8 This summer, there are about 5,500 youth participating in the 9 informational programs at the library. And with that kind of 10 participation, that's the things that encourages life-long 11 learning processes for the youth. Since February, when fees 12 were required for members of the community that are not 13 residents of the city, we've decreased the patrons in the 14 library from 3,800 hundred to 300, so that's 3,500 people 15 that are not current cardholders in the library that were. 16 And then all citizens of the county, especially youth and the 17 economically disadvantaged, should have services available at 18 no direct charge. So, that's -- that's what I couch as the 19 library situation. 20 The recommendation regarding the library is to 21 fulfill the gentleman's agreement to share operational costs 22 with the City to operate the library, to reestablish the 23 partnership with the City, and to demand as part of this that 24 the County have two representatives on the advisory board. 25 That would be something we'd have to negotiate, which I think 7-29-13 bwk 5 1 is -- could be done, and then assure with that, that the 2 library remains a first-class operation and is available to 3 all county residents. To do that, I'm suggesting that we 4 include $350,000 in the budget for the library. 5 The next subject which we didn't discuss in any 6 departments was the volunteer fire departments, and I think 7 this is a subject that's becoming more critical. Volunteer 8 fire departments are -- you know, they're critical to the 9 safety for 85 percent of the area of the county. The 10 volunteer fire departments are a resource for combating -- 11 combating brush fires and wildfires, which the City cannot; 12 they don't have the equipment to do it. And the VFD's 13 support practically all the EMS's, First Responders. The 14 volunteer fire departments play an extremely important role 15 in the emergency management plan. That plan is -- as we've 16 talked about before in the court, it coordinates everybody 17 for about 10 different types of -- of disasters, including 18 terrorists and spills and everything else. Volunteer fire 19 departments play a very critical role in that. Some of the 20 roles which they play they can't even fulfill, like the 21 hazardous spills. They don't have the equipment, the 22 knowledge, or the training to do that, so that's some things 23 we may need to increase their capabilities. And the county 24 remains in extreme drought. 25 So, we -- currently, the contributions to eight 7-29-13 bwk 6 1 volunteer fire departments is approximately 50 percent of 2 their operating costs, and that's $21,000 for each of the 3 volunteer fire departments. Tierra Linda, the contribution 4 is 3,000. And Tierra Linda, a large portion of their 5 services, their runs that they make are to Kerr County, just 6 by virtue of their proximity, and especially true if it has 7 anything to do with brush fires. EMS is a big part of that. 8 So, the recommendation here in the budget is -- and correct 9 me if I'm wrong here. Buster and I were talking about this 10 earlier. I think that the volunteer fire departments have 11 not had an increase in their contribution for three years. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not true. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not true? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last year, 5,000. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Last year, 5,000? Okay. I 16 had some wrong information, then. Thank you, Bruce. So, 17 that's -- to do what I'm recommending here I think would not 18 be appropriate. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually, it was six; I stand 20 corrected. It went from 15,000 to 21,000. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 15,000 to 21,000? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd asked for 12 for each 23 one -- increase, and we all agreed that all we could afford 24 was six, and we did that. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Well, let me not 7-29-13 bwk 7 1 suggest that we increase by $4,000. Let me just put that as 2 -- I think what we should do, and the recommendation is to 3 hear from the volunteer fire departments what they -- what 4 their current situation is, especially in light of what 5 Commissioner Oehler said, that that contribution had been 6 increased significantly last year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've talked to my volunteer 8 fire department, and they are very grateful for what we give 9 them. If we ask can they use any more, the answer is always 10 yes. And they -- you know, we're very, very fortunate that 11 we, I think county-wide, have a very supportive public that 12 supports fundraiser events of various types, you know. So, 13 my feeling has always been we need to try to give them as 14 much as we possibly can. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree that Tierra Linda 17 probably ought to be brought up, you know, more equal to the 18 rest of them that are within the county. Castle Lake's 19 another one in my precinct outside the county that we fund, I 20 think, 3,000. A slight increase there. I don't think it 21 needs to go to the level of Tierra Linda, but they do -- they 22 have fought some pretty big fires in Kerr County. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but I think, you know, we 25 need to look at them. We need to try to increase them, but 7-29-13 bwk 8 1 we gave a big increase last year, and if we can give them 2 1,000, I'd rather try to give them $1,000. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And what I suggest is a 4 workshop where we have some of the volunteer fire departments 5 or KARFA come in and let us know what their situation is, 6 just like we give an opportunity to departments. And I think 7 that's -- that's reasonable and a fair thing. And then if we 8 can, I think we ought to increase something; we put it in the 9 budget, whatever that amount is we ought to consider. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind asking them to 11 come in, but I can just tell you that the chief in Comfort is 12 so busy, I don't -- you know, if he doesn't have to go to a 13 meeting, he'd rather us just deal with it. I think I 14 represent what -- I know what he wants and can do, and I talk 15 with him on a weekly basis. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- if they want, 18 they're certainly always welcome to come to our meetings. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if we need to have 21 a special workshop just for volunteer fire departments. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not a special workshop. Just 23 make it an agenda item on the workshop. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're probably going to be having at 25 least one additional workshop, and we might include that as 7-29-13 bwk 9 1 one of the items. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably, as opposed to each of the 6 individual chiefs or a representative of each department to 7 come in, have a KARFA rep -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let KARFA come in. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- come in and kind of collectively 10 speak for all of the departments as just one item on the 11 workshop. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I haven't made any requests. 13 I mean, they were glad to get what they got last year. I 14 haven't had anybody from my end, which I have four. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they -- they don't seem 17 to be having a problem financially. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Fundraisers have gone well. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fundraisers are doing very 20 well. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I went to a KARFA meeting week 22 before last, and it was not an agenda item for their meeting, 23 but -- and there weren't specifics. The one that had 24 specifics -- indicated specifics, and then they sent some 25 additional information, was Tierra Linda. Okay? So, since 7-29-13 bwk 10 1 they didn't have it as an agenda item, I think if we could 2 ask KARFA if they have specific needs and recommendations 3 that they can support, then I think that would be a good 4 thing to do. So -- especially in light of the current 5 situation. 6 So, with -- and the other one that I wanted to talk 7 about was a COLA for retirees. And I've talked with Dawn, 8 and that is -- that's more complicated than rocket science, I 9 want to tell you, how you figure that. If there was some way 10 for the 129 retirees that have an average salary of -- or 11 benefits of $850 a month, something like that, if there was 12 some way to give those 129 the same cost-of-living 13 adjustments we give to the current employees, and to sustain 14 it, okay, I think that's something we should consider. But 15 I'm not sure that that's even possible, so I don't want to 16 get into the nuts and the bolts of that right now. But I ask 17 that we just consider that, and maybe we could have Dawn 18 address that at one of the further workshops of what could be 19 done and what options we might have there. And it may be 20 it's so cost prohibitive that we can't do anything. But if 21 there's something simple we can do like I'm suggesting, I'd 22 like to think we ought to consider that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was planning on supporting 24 you on this one. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. I bet you 7-29-13 bwk 11 1 were, yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you saying that you're a 3 short-timer? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am saying exactly that. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He's been saying that for 20 6 years. Let's see. So, where would this money -- where would 7 this money come from? And I've looked at it -- what the 8 proposed expenditures are for the last five years, and -- and 9 when I look at that, it's like a 15.6 percent increase in the 10 actuals of 2012, or what's -- what's requested in the general 11 fund for 2014. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me ask one thing as 13 clarification. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: When you say "expenditures," you're 16 talking about -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Budget requests. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budgeted requests that were 19 approved, so it would be proposed expenditures? 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Proposed expenditures, yes. 21 Proposed expenditures. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Thank you for that 24 clarification. So, proposed expenditures over actuals in 25 previous years is a little over 15 percent, so that's -- 7-29-13 bwk 12 1 that's a pretty big jump. So, as I sat down with each one of 2 the department heads and others and looked through the -- 3 where their big changes are, it's my judgment, okay, and I -- 4 you know, this would be looking at the nuts and bolts of 5 this, but it looks to me like a two and a half percent 6 reduction in the requested expenditures is feasible. And 7 then if we prioritize some of our other, quote, non-mandatory 8 requests, I think we could come up with the funds for 9 everything I've suggested here. And I want to take off 10 volunteer fire departments, and I'm going to take off the 11 COLA right now, because they need more study, but the 12 library, I think that number is real, based on public 13 records, public information from the City. 14 Right now, 50 percent of that would be for $350,000 15 to cover half of that. If we were to do that, and if 16 the county residents' participation didn't come back up to 50 17 percent, then I think we would have to look at that the 18 following year, you know, based on some pro rata contribution 19 from county participation versus city participation. Right 20 now, before February, it was about -- it was about 50-50, 21 47-53 or something like that. So, right now it's 97 -- yeah, 22 93 percent to 7 percent for city/county cardholders. So, 23 what I was trying to do is to -- is to open up that 24 resource -- this county resource for all the public that is 25 not being able to use it right now. So, that's my 7-29-13 bwk 13 1 suggestion. That's what I'd like to have considered in the 2 budget. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- help me here -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a little bit. I think 6 I'm hearing you say that you want -- you want each department 7 in the county system to reduce their budget by 2.5 percent? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that you can take that 10 money and give it to the city. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I can use that for the 12 library. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, give it to the city. 14 Okay. That's clear as mud. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Well, it's not -- it's 16 not giving it to the city; it's giving it to the -- it's 17 giving it to that facility. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Which the city happens to have 20 title to. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. You're right. 22 You're exactly right. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's giving it to the 25 city. But the -- 7-29-13 bwk 14 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, it's giving it to the 2 citizens of all the county. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you -- and then 4 again, you can look at it -- look at this thing like -- I 5 mean, I look at it like the City should be ashamed of 6 themselves for treating the public the way they've been 7 treating them. They own the facility. We don't do the -- we 8 don't take that attitude with the animal shelter and all 9 these other things that we do. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just talking about a -- 12 just talking about an attitude of -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- they need to -- you know, 15 even the people that live out in the county, like me, I pay 16 taxes in this community, and I expect to go use the library 17 if I want to. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think you should be 19 expected -- and want to use it. And that's what -- I think 20 that everybody that lives in the county ought to expect the 21 same thing. Well, they can now if they pay $65 a year. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I do pay that much in 23 taxes. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I understand that, but 25 you pay your taxes plus 65 a year if you want to use it. 7-29-13 bwk 15 1 That's the point. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want to use it that 3 bad. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, you don't, but there's a 5 lot of people that do that can't afford it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You might want to ask these 7 department heads and elected officials if they want -- if 8 they're willing to reduce by two and a half percent so that 9 they -- so that county residents can use the library. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is related 11 to that a little bit, Commissioner. Two and a half percent 12 including salaries? I mean, I don't see how you can get 13 350,000 if you're not including salaries. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I said other -- other 15 items that we've had there. Yeah, it would be some salary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to cut salaries 18 or employees to give funds to the library? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think you're going to 21 get much support for that. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, when I -- I've spent a 23 lot of time going through a lot of line items in the budget, 24 and I think there's some -- there's some things in there. 25 But I agree with you; it would be -- maybe it's not two and a 7-29-13 bwk 16 1 half percent. Maybe it's two percent, like $60,000 per half 2 a percent in COLA. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it -- I don't know what 4 the numbers are. I know from a tax standpoint, 350,000 is 5 basically a penny and a half -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- increase. So, you know, 8 that's pretty close to that. 9 MS. HARGIS: Penny and a quarter. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but the issue to me is 11 should the county taxpayers, you know, pay a penny and a half 12 additional to be able to use the library? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, here's -- here's -- look 14 at it microscopically too. The actuals in 2012, the 15 requested increase is over 15 and a half percent for next 16 year. That's a huge -- it's a huge increase. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you look -- go ahead. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So when you look at what is 19 that big -- those big increases coming from, yeah, a lot of 20 it would be the two and a half percent COLA, but there's a 21 lot in there that's probably -- you know, half of it that's 22 not COLA-related. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So then it's a question of, 25 you know, how do we balance that? So, all I'm saying is 7-29-13 bwk 17 1 let's don't -- I don't think we should have zero in there for 2 the library. If we did the same thing the County's done for 3 the last, you know, 30 years, it would be half of it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I don't want to even 5 go down that road. I've talked about how we got to where we 6 are with the library enough. That was the City's decision, 7 not ours. The -- on the -- one other thing, I think, that is 8 a fallacy in your comparison of budgets, you're comparing 9 proposed expenditures to actual expenditures. Our actual 10 expenditures for 2013, I'll go on the record as saying will 11 be less than our proposed expenditures, guaranteed. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They are every year. That's 14 how we build reserves. So, you know, you have to look at -- 15 you know, I don't know what that factor is. I'm sure if you 16 went back to 2009-10 year, looked at our proposed versus 17 actual -- proposed versus actual each year, you're going to 18 find that there's maybe a 15 percent increase, but the 19 reality is it's probably about a 2 or 3 percent increase. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Two or three? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think you have to look at 22 actual -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that's how you -- question 24 on how you manage the budget. Do you budget to what you 25 think is absolutely necessary, or do you budget with a margin 7-29-13 bwk 18 1 in there? I think there's a margin in there that we could 2 allocate to the library. And just basically exactly what 3 you're saying; it's historical that you don't -- you don't 4 spend what is -- expenditures that are requested in the 5 budget. I think I agree with you 100 percent on that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we should go to a deficit 7 budget? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. No, just reduce the 9 requested expenditures by two and a half percent. You can 10 meet -- you'd meet the budget, just based on what you said. 11 Historically, that's what you've done in the past. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying historically, you 13 don't spend it all. But I don't see how you could go in 14 there -- if we have 300 positions in the budget, which person 15 aren't you going to fund? You got to fund all 300 positions, 16 you know. And my feeling is -- I mean, I think the Court 17 knows this. I don't mind going with a slight deficit budget 18 because of that issue; we've done that in the past. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we have to look at 21 reserves, and we have been able to build the reserves by -- 22 if you look at them now, where we are now, we're basically -- 23 actually, this year we are below where we were in 2009, I 24 believe. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: By policy, this Court has adopted a 7-29-13 bwk 19 1 25 percent minimum reserve. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. And we got -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We are just now achieving that, by 4 virtue of clawing and scratching and -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Reducing staff by attrition. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that was a lot of it. Over -- 7 over a period of several years, we have managed to rebuild 8 that. And, of course, included within that -- that so-called 9 15.6 percent increase, you got a fund balance at the end of 10 the year, and -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, proposed is one thing. What we 13 end up with, and then the fund balance at the end of the 14 year, I think, accounts for most, if not all, of that 15 15 percent increase. Sheriff, you had a comment that you wanted 16 to make? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just quickly, I hope. First 18 off, when you talk about, Commissioner Moser, taking money 19 from the hardworking county employees to give it to the city 20 for the library -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I object to that. I'm not 22 giving it to the city; I'm giving it to the facility. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My biggest complaint is -- I'm 24 also a city resident. I pay my city taxes, okay? And what I 25 see them do at the end of the year, number one, is take a 7-29-13 bwk 20 1 whole lot of my money that I pay for water and sewer, and 2 transfer it over, in excess of a million dollars a year, to 3 their general fund. I think they got their own funding they 4 can get somewhere. I gave you a letter I wrote -- editorial 5 a while back, if you read it. Number one, if you're going to 6 do that and actually even remotely consider cutting Kerr 7 County employees' salaries to fund that, whether it's giving 8 it to the city -- in my opinion, it is, 'cause it's their 9 library -- or giving it to the facility, I've never seen a 10 facility spend a dime. I've seen people spend a lot. But 11 currently, there's over a $30,000 pay difference in my salary 12 and the Chief of Police salary, and I think you'll see that 13 type of difference with a lot of county employees compared to 14 a lot of city employees. And I'll be the first one out here 15 on the courthouse lawn protesting. I think we got a lot of 16 county employees that would be out there with me if you try 17 and do that. 18 Now, one thing I do think you ought to look at, and 19 I think this County needs to look at, there's one area in our 20 health insurance which I think the County seriously needs to 21 look at, and it does involve retirees. And I'm not saying 22 that 'cause I'm getting to the age where I could -- 23 hopefully, I'll be there in a little bit. But, you know, 24 currently, just food for thought, if you have eight years 25 employment with this county, but you're 60 years of age, you 7-29-13 bwk 21 1 can retire and collect -- and get health insurance from the 2 County as a retiree. If you have 30 years of employment, but 3 you're 56 or 57 years of age, you're not eligible for health 4 insurance as a retiree, even though you've given this county 5 30 years. Most counties that offer that do it on either a 6 20-year or a 25-year basis. This county used to do that, and 7 then a prior administration and prior H.R. Director, this 8 County chose not to do that. I think that any employee, 9 regardless of age, if they've given this county 20, 25 years 10 of service, they ought to be eligible for retirement 11 benefits, including health insurance. I think that's where 12 you should be looking at, not whether or not we fund the 13 library that we have no say-so over. Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let me comment on that. 15 There's -- there's -- we talked about the requested 16 expenditures, and probably not going to spend all that money, 17 so I think that that difference, okay, would be a big portion 18 of funding the library if we said -- let me finish -- if 19 we looked at that. The second thing is, there's some other 20 non-mandatory things that -- like you're talking about that 21 perhaps can be looked at to find additional funds, and we 22 haven't done that. And I don't know that -- you know, I look 23 at what COLA is for different counties. One county's one 24 percent. We said two and a half percent. Now, I don't know 25 where that number came from, but it sounds -- sounds 7-29-13 bwk 22 1 reasonable. Maybe two percent is the right answer. If we 2 want to do it, there's a way to do it. If we don't want to 3 do it, we don't want all the county residents to be able to 4 participate in the library at no additional cost, then that's 5 the decision we'll make, okay? And I just said let's 6 consider it, okay? I'd like to see it. I suspect that I'll 7 be in a minority on that, but I want to put it on the table 8 for now as part of the process. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a whole lot -- a 10 majority of the county residents do not use that library. 11 Why should they have to fund it? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, because there are a lot 13 that do. The same percentage uses it outside the county that 14 uses it inside the city. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it should be a user-pay 16 program. But the other issue that you're bringing, the 17 unexpended -- I think maybe you didn't hear what the Judge 18 had to say. Our unexpended part of our budget -- and I don't 19 think you have a single department head or elected official 20 that tries to zero out their budget every year. I think 21 under Judge Tinley's leadership and that that we've had, and 22 he's been pretty tight on all our budgets, we spend what we 23 need, and if there's anything left over, and as you just 24 heard Judge Tinley say, it goes back into it, which helps 25 make up that 25 percent reserve that we need. Because I have 7-29-13 bwk 23 1 seen times in my 30-plus years here where we've had some 2 disasters in this county, be it fire or be it floods, where 3 that contingency or that amount that's put back is 4 desperately taken and spent for all the residents of this 5 county. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think we're at 25 percent 7 now, are we not? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which is where it should be. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right, I agree. So, do 10 we need to be at 27 percent at the end of the year? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In a lot of ways, it's better. 12 We sure don't need to spend money on someone else's budget. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's your opinion of 14 the library. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've just now -- I think 16 we've just now are managed to hit that 25 percent plateau. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's part of the scratching 19 and clawing that we've been doing for a number of years. 20 Sheriff, on the issue of health insurance being available to 21 retirees who are under age 60, -- 22 MS. HARGIS: 65. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you know, we've adopted a plan. 24 It may well be that we can amend that plan; I don't know. 25 But, Ms. Lantz, could you try and get some calculations of 7-29-13 bwk 24 1 what -- what the cost of that might be? I realize we've 2 backed out of it a few years ago, but I would be interested 3 in knowing what the cost is. And, of course, part of that's 4 going to include the cost at which we make it available. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, the difference 7 between actual cost and what we make it available at is -- is 8 what ends up as our contribution to that. But even the 9 suggestion that we try and figure the actual cost, but make 10 it available -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think is something that the 13 retirees might very well be amenable to, the fact that it is 14 available. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Even available. That's the 16 big issue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At whatever cost, because you've got 18 continuity. It's kind of like COBRA; it just carries 19 forward. But at least take a look and see what the numbers 20 are, and then how that number might be utilized in 21 determining what the cost to the County would be, if any. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's certainly something to look 24 at. And the fact that we went the other direction a few 25 years ago doesn't mean we shouldn't consider going back to 7-29-13 bwk 25 1 it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'd appreciate it if the 3 County would just look at it. I had that brought to my 4 attention, and if it's just an option to the employees, and 5 look at the cost of what it would cost them during retirement 6 to be able to -- what their portion would be, I think it 7 would be an added benefit to the employees. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask, if I might, if there are 9 any individual department budgets that -- that any member of 10 the Court has that they want to review or go into at this 11 point? Okay, seemingly not. Let's go to the second item on 12 the workshop agenda; review and discuss fiscal year 2013-14, 13 requests for additional personnel. Review and discuss 14 compensation for department heads and individual employee 15 compensation, and other individual increases not mandated by 16 current policy. Review and discuss changes or additions to 17 step and grade schedule and restructuring department or 18 departments. 19 MS. HARGIS: I think we've got -- I put a copy of 20 that in each one of your boxes, a new one. That's just the 21 fund balances that you requested. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The difficulty that we have now is 23 that we are still in process of this MGT study, and I'm -- 24 I'm not sure the degree to which we ought to be -- with that 25 pending, -- 7-29-13 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we ought to be trying to 3 figure out, ahead of receiving the results of that, some -- 4 some changes. I hate to kick the can down the road, but I 5 think at this point, we're obliged to do so. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Until we get that, because it's 8 going to have a lot of interplay with that particular agenda 9 item on this workshop agenda. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can talk all day long, 11 but until we get this information, we're really not getting 12 anywhere. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We need that information to do 14 this; I agree. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, Judge, next Monday -- 17 do we have a Commissioners Court meeting Monday? 18 MS. HARGIS: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, but we're going to have another 20 workshop posted, I think. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't mean Monday. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not going to have a meeting 23 till the 12th. 24 MS. HARGIS: 12th. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- well, first, on the 7-29-13 bwk 27 1 workshop, if there is a workshop next Monday, can we move the 2 time from 10 o'clock? 'Cause I have a -- there's another 3 public meeting I've got to be at. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Earlier or later? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Later. Do it after lunch; 6 1 o'clock would be my preference. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll have juvies, but I can probably 8 move those around. We can possibly do a workshop beginning 9 at 1:00, 1:30 in the afternoon. Would that be amenable? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that will certainly help 11 me and Tom; I know he has to be at that meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That work for you too? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll take that into account. 16 And in the meantime, I can move my juvenile cases around, I 17 think. If I can't, I'll just reschedule them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At that time -- but on the -- 19 at that meeting, we should have the information from MGT, or 20 whatever they're called, by then. And that's going to take 21 quite a while to go through that. That's kind of -- it's a 22 lot of -- quite a bit of stuff. I looked at part of it, 23 trying to work with H.R., trying to get, you know, at least 24 that I'm comfortable with that, and you'll be comfortable 25 with it. 7-29-13 bwk 28 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably true. I'm sure 2 you've jacked with things a little. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a little bit here and 4 there. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, a little bit. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and is the idea to have 7 Dawn to have them here for that workshop? Is that -- I mean, 8 that's the time when we're going to have them kind of go over 9 the whole thing with us? 10 MS. LANTZ: I can request Mark to be here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or do you think that would be 12 helpful? I guess probably a better way to look at it -- 13 MS. LANTZ: I think they're providing a 14 recommendation, or -- or what the JCQ was, and how they see 15 it as a scope of those jobs, and where they should be in the 16 alignment within the departments as to what clerks do, 17 what -- so that's basically what he'll tell you. He won't go 18 really in-depth of anything else, but just let you know that 19 that's where he came up with his recommendation as far as 20 where the classifications should be. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the timetable on having 22 that final spreadsheet available for Commissioners and all 23 the department heads? 24 MS. LANTZ: I was hoping it would be Friday, but 25 they still had a few more things to fix, so this week -- I 7-29-13 bwk 29 1 know it has to be to us this week. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MS. LANTZ: So as soon as I get that, I can make 4 sure everyone gets a copy. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everyone gets a copy. It 6 doesn't take that long to get it. It's a big spreadsheet 7 that shows where people are, where they're recommending any 8 changes, and most of them, there's not any changes for most 9 of them. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where you recommend they go? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't recommend. 12 MS. LANTZ: No, they're -- no, it's just basically 13 what they've compiled and sent to us. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We probably need to look at 15 this thing now. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look at it very closely. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can we have a preview of that 18 before? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the changes are -- I 20 haven't made any changes actually, or recommended any 21 changes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you sure? You're on the 23 record. You haven't messed with it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I had questions. I mean, 25 you know, they're -- it appears to me they did a good job. I 7-29-13 bwk 30 1 mean, they've looked at some offices. They think there needs 2 to be adjustments made that people are on the jobs; some up, 3 some down. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you don't think we're 5 going to be able to grasp that in a couple hours meeting? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think you need to look at 7 it ahead of time. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're going to need, I would 10 say, a couple hours to go through it or think about it. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you give it to us a couple 12 days in advance. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you can -- probably 14 Wednesday, it should be available. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or when the guy comes in to 16 make his presentation, that's when it hits. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In advance. I mean, it's 19 not -- it's pretty simple. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For scheduling purposes, let me be 21 clear. It needs to be in the afternoon because of 22 commitments that you have and you have? Okay, we can fix 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We can fix that. Just hold your -- 7-29-13 bwk 31 1 hold your Monday afternoon open, folks. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. And at that workshop, 3 can we have Dawn talk about the COLA and the -- then the 4 options we may have for retirees at that time? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I don't know why we couldn't. 6 We can look at those numbers and see how they impact -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. And if -- it may not 8 work at all. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's T.C.D.R.S., Jody. And -- 10 actually, if we could have some numbers on that retiree 11 health insurance below age 60. Either that, or we could just 12 change the Sheriff's birth certificate. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Way past that point already, 14 Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And should we, at that time, 16 see if KARFA wants to talk to us about the -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Invite them? 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody -- any member of the 21 Court have anything else for the -- under the workshop agenda 22 before the Court now? Hearing nothing further, we'll be 23 adjourned. 24 (Commissioners Court workshop adjourned at 12:10 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 7-29-13 bwk 32 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of August, 2013. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-29-13 bwk