1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, August 5, 2013 11 1:45 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 5, 2013 2 PAGE 3 Presentation from Ed Marker with Kerr Area Rural Fire Association (KARFA) regarding Kerr County volunteer 4 fire departments 3 5 Consideration of COLA options for retirees under Texas County and District Retirement System 9 6 Review and discuss FY 2013-14 individual department 7 budgets 14 8 Review and discuss FY 2013-14 requests for additional personnel; review and discuss compensation for department 9 heads and individual employee compensations and other individual increases not mandated by the current policy; 10 review and discuss changes or additions to step and grade schedule and restructuring departments 20 11 --- Adjourned 40 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, August 5, 2013, at 1:45 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this point, I will recess 8 the Commissioners Court meeting and I will call to order the 9 Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for Monday, August 5, 10 2013, at 1:45. It looks like 1:52, so not too bad there. 11 We've got three different categories on the -- on the 12 workshop agenda. Did I see Mr. Marker here? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, he's here. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: There he is, okay. Let me go ahead 15 and call that portion of the workshop, a presentation from 16 Mr. Ed Marker with the Kerr Area Rural Fire Association 17 regarding the Kerr County volunteer fire departments. 18 MR. MARKER: Hello. I'm going to read all this. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, gee. I can give you some more, 20 too. (Laughter.) 21 MR. MARKER: No. I -- I tell you, on behalf of 22 KARFA, I'd just like to say that it's a great group. It 23 involves 10 fire departments. We all work extremely well 24 together, and any time there's a call for mutual aid, 25 unquestionably, we jump to it. No delays, and we're all 8-5-13 bwk 4 1 happy to do it. I think Kerr County's very fortunate to -- 2 to have the type of volunteer fire departments they do have. 3 They're all good. And you know that almost 70 percent of the 4 fire departments in the United States -- I'm not sure about 5 Texas -- are volunteer fire departments. And these 6 departments -- seems like they're always begging for alms and 7 having all sorts of problems acquiring money for donations, 8 and so whatever the Court can do is greatly appreciated by 9 everybody. In short, as far as Tierra Linda is concerned, we 10 feel like we do an awful lot for Kerr County. As it comes 11 out, we are also in the 911 system for Kerr city, and that 12 911 system goes approximately all the way to White Oak. So, 13 any calls in particular that are EMS calls that the city EMS 14 comes out to, we have First Responders and we respond. In 15 fact, we've responded in the last three days. So, we feel 16 like we might be -- we cover all the area in Kerr County, 17 specifically from the Kerr County/Gillespie County line to 18 10, including Box S. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's on the way, right? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, just right below the top of 21 the hill there. 22 MR. MARKER: So, anyway, we do a lot for the 23 community. We -- we do the Texas A & M Firewise programs for 24 everyone in Kerr County. And almost all of our EMS calls 25 are -- are to help and assist the city. And I have a lot of 8-5-13 bwk 5 1 information -- Tom has, and y'all are welcome to it. I have 2 a set for everyone if they'd like it. I won't get all into 3 it, but in general, we always need more money, of course, and 4 our position is that compared to the other Kerr County 5 departments, we're a little bit out of proportion. We get a 6 disproportionate amount. We get $3,000, and we would 7 certainly appreciate the Commission taking all that into 8 account, what I've written here, and at least consider us for 9 some increase. And with that, if there's any questions, Tom 10 might have -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me comment on that. At 12 the last workshop, I brought this up about the County's 13 contribution to all the volunteer fire departments that are 14 part of KARFA. 15 MR. MARKER: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I believe that we have 17 21,000 that we contribute to eight of the volunteer fire 18 departments. Tierra Linda, I believe, is 3,000. And -- and 19 maybe I asked Jeannie. Jeannie, the last time that we had an 20 increase to the 21,000, how long ago was that? 21 MS. HARGIS: Last year. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Pardon me? 23 MS. HARGIS: Last year. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Last year we increased it. 25 And I think Bruce pointed out that there had been some fairly 8-5-13 bwk 6 1 significant increases, so I think that -- and I know that, 2 just talking with -- with Mark and Jerry Vincent and Danny 3 Smith and some of the others, that their costs have gone up 4 quite a bit. So, I just -- as part of the budget, I think we 5 should consider our contribution to these -- to these fine, 6 critically important organizations, since they're the only 7 ones that can -- can fight brush fires. The city can't do 8 it, even though the city comes out to help. So -- and Tierra 9 Linda, I think, is a special case, and Ed Marker has put 10 together a lot of information here on what Tierra Linda does, 11 so all I'll do is just echo what he's saying, and that we 12 give this consideration as part of our budget. 13 MR. MARKER: We're a strange group. We're in 14 Gillespie County, but we're all -- this is -- our hometown is 15 Kerrville. Everybody shops here; everybody does everything 16 here, and so we feel more part of this community, really, 17 than Fredericksburg. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do you have copies of these 19 for everybody? 20 MR. MARKER: I certainly do. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just leave it for the record. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments from 23 any member of the Court? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, Chief 25 Marker. When you say that we need more money, are you 8-5-13 bwk 7 1 speaking strictly on Tierra Linda's behalf? Or as -- as the 2 KARFA president? 3 MR. MARKER: I'm speaking on Tierra Linda's behalf, 4 because I don't know, nor do I want to know, all the finances 5 of the other departments. In this packet I'll give you, we 6 don't budget, per se. We just take revenue in and we have 7 expenses, and I have 2012 and 2013 to-date of the money we've 8 spent, and how we've spent it. I also included all of the 9 runs for 2012, where they are, to ad nauseam, and also for 10 2013. And the numbers on '13, like I say, are three off. We 11 now have three more EMS calls that we just had in the last 12 few days. That's what -- I'm speaking financially only from 13 us. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you very much. 15 I attend their annual fundraiser every year, and it's a good 16 party. It's a good one. 17 MR. MARKER: Yeah. We -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. Just give me all 19 of them; we'll just pass them around. Thank you, sir. 20 MR. MARKER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Very good. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The activities that Tierra Linda 23 does in Kerr County, you're one of, I think, three 24 out-of-county departments that we provide funding to. 25 MR. MARKER: Mm-hmm. 8-5-13 bwk 8 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And, obviously, the disparity is 2 because you're out of county. 3 MR. MARKER: Sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But from the standpoint of the -- 5 the amount of work that your department does in Kerr County, 6 would it be your estimation that you do more in Kerr County 7 than you do in Gillespie County? 8 MR. MARKER: We do more in Kerr County for the -- 9 let me be -- we do more for the Kerr County EMS in particular 10 than anybody else. As an example, just in '13, we have -- 11 I'm not sure; this shows 12 EMS calls out of a total of 14, 12 so we now have three more. So, over 90 percent of our EMS 13 work is with Kerr City or Kerr County people. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What about your fire calls? 15 MR. MARKER: Fire calls, we've been slow there. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way you want it, isn't 17 it? 18 MR. MARKER: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: With this weather like it is. 20 MR. MARKER: We're not the only department. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 MR. MARKER: I'd have to look at the chart. Fire 23 calls -- let's take '12. In '12, we had 81 calls, okay. And 24 of those 81 calls, almost half of them were in Kerr County, 25 or for Kerr -- excuse me, for Kerr folks. 8-5-13 bwk 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, overall -- 2 MR. MARKER: If you want to wade through that mess, 3 you can go down there and see. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Overall, then, based upon the track 5 record that you've compiled, overall, you do more in Kerr 6 County than you do in Gillespie County, even though you're in 7 Gillespie County? 8 MR. MARKER: Yeah, I would say that's a fair -- in 9 a normal year. The last time we got a bump was actually 10 October of '11, in '11. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 12 MR. MARKER: Thank you very much, and we appreciate 13 it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thanks for what you do. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the last item as shown, 18 consideration of COLA options for retirees under Texas County 19 and District Retirement System. Ms. Lantz? You took a look 20 at -- I think you and Ms. Hargis together took a look at what 21 it would take for any appreciable effect on retiree monthly 22 benefits, and to do that, it would take a pretty significant 23 COLA to get there, would it not? 24 MS. LANTZ: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 8-5-13 bwk 10 1 MS. LANTZ: And not everyone would be eligible for 2 the COLA that are current retirees. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh? Explain that to me, please. 4 MS. LANTZ: According to cost-of-living 5 adjustments, it depends on what the increase of the COLA is. 6 The smaller the COLA, the ones that have retired and have 7 been in retirement a lot longer than those ones just 8 currently retiring won't see very much of an increase at all. 9 You'd almost have to do a 30 percent or 100 percent COLA in 10 order for them to get any type of $1, $2 increase on their 11 retirement. Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Explain -- how does that work? 13 I don't understand. 14 MS. LANTZ: I can give you a copy of what 15 T.C.D.R.S. sent me, and it breaks it down per our -- it 16 doesn't give names of our retirees, but as far as 17 allocations, for example, someone who retired in 2005, if we 18 did a 10 percent COLA, they wouldn't get an increase at all. 19 If we gave them a 30 percent increase, that would be, like, 20 718, and then once you get to the 100 -- 100 percent COLA, it 21 would take their monthly check to 816. So, if it's -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, when you say 30 percent 23 COLA, for example, that would be 30 percent of what's being 24 proposed for cost-of-living adjustments for current 25 employees? 8-5-13 bwk 11 1 MS. LANTZ: Yes. We have to do it for our total 2 payroll, so we multiply that times the total payroll. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, total payroll. So you 4 can't -- so you can't -- let me just do a hypothetical. Say 5 we decide to do a two and a half percent COLA for current 6 employees across the board. You can't just take the retirees 7 as a group of people for the amount of money that goes to 8 them each year and say we're going to do a two and a half 9 percent or that amount of money? By itself? 10 MS. LANTZ: You have to fund the whole retirement, 11 because eventually those people who retire need get to that 12 part as well. So, you're funding your payroll in that, not 13 just the ones -- those 129 that are currently retired. Now, 14 you can do a flat rate, my understanding is, but that's 15 expensive as well. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, if you did -- just doing a 17 back-of-the-envelope thing, if you did -- my understanding, 18 if you did a flat rate with, say, 129 employees, retired 19 employees, making an average of 800-something dollars a 20 month, and you said a two and a half percent of that, that 21 comes out to about $36,000. So, is that -- you can't do 22 that? 23 MS. HARGIS: No. You'd have to multiply it times 24 the entire payroll regardless. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's my question. I'm just 8-5-13 bwk 12 1 asking the mechanics. 2 MS. HARGIS: One percent is $140,000. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, my -- my hypothetical 4 equation there is not valid. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you -- if we do a COLA, 6 then we have the option whether we apply it to retirees or 7 not? 8 MS. HARGIS: No. 9 MS. LANTZ: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- I mean, I guess 11 the e-mails that I get, the retirees say they haven't had an 12 adjustment in five years or something like that. If we've 13 given a COLA, how come they didn't get it? 14 MS. LANTZ: It's on a -- on a scale. It depends 15 what you make. And if you have a percentage that they're 16 allowing, sometimes it doesn't affect any of those that have 17 been retired for a long time. It's going to hit those in the 18 lower level, because it's so minute an increase, it doesn't 19 affect anything. You have to give a substantial percentage 20 in order for it to even affect. And we did do, in 2012, the 21 basic 10 percent, which those retirees didn't see it because 22 of this -- the way they have this retirement system set up as 23 far as COLAs go. Now, that didn't cost the County anything, 24 but this year if we do that, it'll cost us .02 percent of our 25 total payroll. And there again, those that have -- are 8-5-13 bwk 13 1 retired for a long time won't see it. If they do, it'll be 2 about 30 cents to the retirement. It's not a big -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't make any sense to do 4 it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think here's the difference. When 6 you figure a COLA for current employees, you take the payroll 7 of those employees that you're giving the COLA to, and you 8 multiply whatever that COLA is, and that's your cost. With 9 the retirees, you don't take just the amount that you're 10 paying those retirees and multiply that to get their COLA. 11 Their COLA is based upon a computation of our total active 12 employees' payroll. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: See, that's -- I was with you. 14 I was looking at Group A and Group B, and you can't do just 15 Group B retirees as a group. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Just by computation alone on what 17 they're paid. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, precisely. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No matter what we'd like to 20 do, we just can't. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You answered my questions. 22 That's what I had last time, so thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, you wanted to bring her 24 back, and we got her back. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it back, thank you. I 8-5-13 bwk 14 1 appreciate it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go up to the first item on the 3 workshop agenda; review and discuss fiscal year 2013-14 4 individual department budgets. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't have anything. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I didn't put that on the 8 agenda. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the next item? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You ready to go to the next one? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the individual 13 department, I just have a -- it's a request. I've talked 14 this over with Road and Bridge, something that I'd forgotten 15 about. We have talked for several years about doing a 16 right-of-way acquisition on Lane Valley, and there's a 17 segment along there where it's real narrow, and it took us 18 about a year, it seems, to get accurate costs to do it. The 19 -- and the idea would be, the individual has tentatively 20 agreed to donate the property, and then we just have to make 21 -- clear the right-of-way and put up a fence. That's 22 basically how it would work. We have the cost of that 23 finally; we know what we think is reasonable. We estimated 24 the items last year, and it was way, way too high. We didn't 25 move forward on it. The total cost of doing the dirt work to 8-5-13 bwk 15 1 put the fence up is about $50,000. It's about a 7,000-foot 2 stretch, Kelly? Anyway, Leonard says he has some money in -- 3 he's kind of had this -- he's been working on it for three 4 years -- two years. He has some money under special 5 contracts, I think. He also -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Special contracts, special 7 projects. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Special projects. He says he 9 has some money that he could use for this, not designated, 10 but I think he's going to be short. If we want to do that -- 11 and he has said that if we could put in about 15,000 under 12 right-of-way acquisition if this deal comes together, which 13 still is an "if," that that should cover it. 14 MS. HARGIS: Where does he have the money? Because 15 if it's in this year's budget, it'll go away. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's in next year, October. 17 This will not take place right now. 18 MS. HARGIS: So, he wants another 15? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, under right-of-way 20 acquisition, whatever it will be. I think that's the line 21 item, right-of-way acquisition. And I talked to him about 22 it. He said he can make that work, I think. And that's 23 still an if. It's whether we can still put together a little 24 bit of a complicated project. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, one that's not Road and 8-5-13 bwk 16 1 Bridge that we probably ought to really budget for is that 2 property in Ingram next to the fire station where we've 3 talked about doing that for a long time. It's not a lot of 4 money, but the proper way to do it is probably to put it in 5 the budget for acquisition. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: More of a capital item, I would 7 think. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Purchase of real property. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. 10 MS. HARGIS: We have 40,000 now. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 12 MS. HARGIS: We need more than that? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, no, no, we don't need 14 near that much. Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: It's in the capital in Fund 16. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just wanted to bring that 17 up. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there anything, Buster or 20 Tom, in your two precincts, or somewhere in y'all's precinct, 21 the fire station in Kerrville South? We did receive the -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Drainage. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- drainage study report. Is 24 there something we would want to move forward on that that we 25 need to budget for? 8-5-13 bwk 17 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That was going to be an 2 agenda item when we got the grant. There were a bunch of 3 questions -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- moving forward, so I think 6 that's another agenda item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Handle it next Monday? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, that'd be fine. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think it needs to be 10 considered. It's something I want to see we get in place 11 hopefully before the end of next fiscal year. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. I was a little bit 13 surprised to see the study actually showed that something 14 will work there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause I really had my 17 doubts about it, -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I did too. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- being able to put 20 anything there, ever. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there was another option, that 22 of coming underneath the roadway too. That, I think, would 23 have been a viable alternative. We didn't get to that one. 24 It was mentioned, but it was not directly acted upon, if I 25 recall. 8-5-13 bwk 18 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A fairly small retaining pond. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, pond. But, you know, 3 we just need to remember that the property was donated to the 4 County for a specific purpose. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think that we should 7 do everything that we can in our power to make that become a 8 reality. For a deceased person. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and based on its location, 10 I think it's about as good a location as you can find -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to serve that area with fire 13 protection. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are you going to bring that 16 one back? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, see, I thought we were 18 going -- it was on the agenda before, and we took it off 19 because we weren't ready. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I think it was an agenda 22 item we postponed, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's bring that back now 24 that we have the report. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. That's what we were 8-5-13 bwk 19 1 waiting on, waiting on the report. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other question I have 3 is on flood control. We have a separate fund for that. To 4 budget something out of that, does that need to go in the 5 budget now? This is something that would be a joint grant 6 with Kendall County on Cypress Creek, and I don't know if 7 it's going to happen. I mean, I met with Commissioner Rusch 8 this morning, and they have budgeted some for this. All the 9 work will be done in Kerr County, but they're going to help 10 fund it, certainly, 'cause it affects Kendall County, 11 certainly as much as Kerr County. And I think a lot of it 12 will probably be done by John Hewitt as in-kind. I'm not 13 sure. You know, it's kind of -- I know they have budgeted 14 10,000 in Kendall County for the study, and then there's a 15 matching grant from Water Development Board. And I said, 16 "Well, we have designated funds for flood control," which 17 this will be a good use of that. But I wasn't sure what our 18 fund balance was in flood control. 19 MS. HARGIS: It's not great. Hang on a second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking only about a study? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A study. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a study, okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: Well, we have -- yeah, we have $83,500 24 in there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-5-13 bwk 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That ought to cover it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think 10,000 for a 3 study. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that each, or 10,000 5 total? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10,000 that we do. Kendall 7 County, from what they said, budgeted 10,000 for it. 8 MS. HARGIS: I already have 10 in there. We'll 9 just put a name on it. We do it every year. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, it's there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already budgeted, good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that item 14 before we go to the next one? 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The remaining item on the 17 workshop agenda is review and discuss fiscal year 2013-14 18 requests for additional personnel; review and discuss 19 compensation for department heads and individual employee 20 compensation and other individual increases not mandated by 21 current policy. Review and discuss changes or additions to 22 step and grade schedule and restructuring departments. Okay, 23 there's a bunch to chew on there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know Rusty wants more 25 money. And I will -- I told him I'd bring it up, and I'll 8-5-13 bwk 21 1 bring it up, is that he -- same issue he has all the time, 2 that his chief deputy is very close to him, and the Police 3 Chief, which is a similar position, gets paid -- 120,000 a 4 year? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Between 30,000 and 40,000 6 difference. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he thinks we should 8 consider it. And I don't disagree with it, but I -- you 9 know, I also don't think that we can single out -- or should 10 single out just one department. I think, you know, you can't 11 really look at one elected official versus another. To me, 12 you have to look at the group of them, and we tend to get 13 paid less than what our counterparts would be at the city. 14 That's just the way it is -- we choose to run, and the way it 15 goes. So, I brought it up, but I'm not -- I agree that you 16 should make more than your chief deputy. I think all elected 17 officials should make more than their chief deputies. But 18 aside from that, I don't know that, you know, I have any 19 proposal for any across-the-board elected official increase 20 anyway. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The whole difference I have -- 22 and I think most department heads do make more than their 23 chief deputies, and there's a pretty good difference in that 24 salary. But we go through this every budget year, as we all 25 have known, for -- you know, it's 12, 13 years, that for a 8-5-13 bwk 22 1 while the chief deputy makes more than me. For a while, it's 2 less. He gets a cost-of-living, and it just goes back and 3 forth. I don't think the separation is -- is equitable in 4 those two salaries. And then, when you look at job duties 5 compared to my chief or Sheriff -- and not just for me. I 6 just think there's an inequity there that this Court should 7 once and for all look at and correct, no matter who your 8 Sheriff is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- personally, I feel that, 10 you know, a -- and I think we thought we had a court order, 11 but I don't think we really did have a court order. We can't 12 do a court order in a workshop. But I thought the -- I think 13 it is reasonable that the Sheriff or -- you know, should make 14 5,000 more than his chief deputy. And, you know, we can 15 figure it out. It can be a county-wide thing for all 16 department heads, but I think you're probably the only one 17 that's real close. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think I am. And that's the 19 issue. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, we can address 21 that on Monday. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See if you can't get the 24 chief deputy to cough up a little of it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8-5-13 bwk 23 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And separate it that way. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't say that, did I? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll make sure he knows you 5 said that, Buster, next time y'all play in your band 6 together. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He's out ticketing your truck 9 right now. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So much for a Christian 11 band. (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And is this -- we're talking 13 about COLA? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only other thing, I 15 did ask for one personnel -- remember, Jonathan? -- in the 16 first meeting. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You asked for somebody? I 18 forgot about that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We all did, I think. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, can you explain -- go 21 over that? I truly did -- I don't remember. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have the figures with 23 me since I brought it up, but it was -- the original request 24 was for one more investigator so we can kind of start 25 countering the methamphetamine and narcotics. Since the 8-5-13 bwk 24 1 issue with the drug task force ended a long time ago, I only 2 have one assigned to the city narcotics unit, and it's just 3 not -- and out in the county, you know, Clay and I have 4 talked about this, and as y'all know, Clay's had extensive 5 narcotic background also. And I think if we could at least 6 get one patrol position, then I can possibly rotate out some 7 other ones in patrol currently to make that work. My issue 8 we're running across now with patrol is we average 25 calls a 9 shift, is what we're working on right now, which takes a lot 10 by the time we get reports. But -- so I'm asking for at 11 least a patrol position that we can work into this unit. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about a regular patrol 13 position? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because I think I can take 15 that and then rotate maybe a couple off, create a separate 16 shift that would work some of that, but concentrate the 17 majority on our narcotics issues. And we do -- you know, I 18 hate to say it, gentlemen; we got -- this county, as y'all 19 can see, we've got a serious, serious methamphetamine problem 20 right now in this county. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's reflected in 22 your -- your medical expense too, that we were going through, 23 Rusty, the other day. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's drastic. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Looking at the big jump in 8-5-13 bwk 25 1 medical expense, isn't it because -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know what we do, but 3 we've got to start concentrating more, and I just do not have 4 the manpower that can even consider it at this point. Not 5 with all the -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I say something about 7 the methamphetamine thing? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember back two, three 10 hundred years ago, when they had the governor's task force 11 here, I used to go out with them and make busts, and -- or 12 watch them make busts. And many times, they would be in a -- 13 in a cabin off up in the woods, and it was a -- what am I 14 trying to say? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Meth lab. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Laboratory. They had a 17 laboratory. You could smell it 9 miles before you got there, 18 but it was pretty elaborate things, and it's not like that 19 any more. People are buying stuff off the counter, putting 20 it in a plastic Coke bottle and laying it down on the ground 21 so the sun can cook it, and it's done. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two-liter bottle. And the 23 problem you have, and we have had it this year, some of -- 24 and the fire departments I know have to be concerned about 25 it; it's called the "shake and bake" method, okay? Where 8-5-13 bwk 26 1 your highway department, fire department, law enforcement -- 2 I mean, you see a 2-liter bottle laying outside on the road 3 full of stuff, you better not touch it, because if do you, 4 it's liable to explode because of the ingredients that 5 they're doing. And that's what they're having -- and we have 6 had fires in this county this year from exploding 7 shake-and-bake methods. It's an issue with fire departments. 8 It's an issue with law enforcement. It's an issue with road 9 people, everything. It is -- it has -- we kind of ran 10 behind, you know, from a lot of the country, with the rest of 11 the U.S. We've been about three years behind, but it has hit 12 us now, and we have a serious methamphetamine issue. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just ain't like it used 14 to be, is it? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's not. It's extremely 16 dangerous. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis? Excuse me. 18 MS. HARGIS: He didn't get his in writing. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We've not made any provision for 20 that additional person in the Sheriff's budget? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did not make it in the 22 budget; I made it at your first budget hearing, is when I 23 requested it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we're talking an 25 additional body, beginning patrol. What are you looking at, 8-5-13 bwk 27 1 65? 2 MS. HARGIS: 60, 65. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 65, 70? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably pretty close, 5 Judge, counting all the roll-ups and everything. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you got the roll-ups, and then 7 you got to add the insurance, 'cause it's a new body. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You're bumping 70, aren't you? 10 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- and I'm going to hold 12 off on that. I mean, I -- I agree with you; you need it, but 13 we have to hold off, in my mind. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have to go with you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a COLA in the current 16 numbers? 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And is it two and a half 19 percent? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Oh, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I presume it includes 22 all employees, elected officials, department heads? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Across the board. 24 MS. HARGIS: Everybody. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Is that an arbitrary 8-5-13 bwk 28 1 number, or did someone -- 2 MS. HARGIS: No, we've been working very hard on 3 it. It's not an arbitrary number. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you're trying to say 5 something, why don't you say it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I want to -- I just want 7 to know what the -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He asked a question. That was 9 a good question. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to know where the 11 two and a half percent came from. I thought it was a 12 placeholder, and -- 13 MS. HARGIS: It is a placeholder. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: But it's based on facts. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on staffing. It's based upon 17 also -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Longevities. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the -- what's being done in the 20 area. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think Bandera was 1 percent. 22 School district was 3 percent. I've just been watching the 23 newspaper and seeing what they've been doing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Gillespie County's 25 considering 2.5. Kendall County's considering 2.5. Bandera 8-5-13 bwk 29 1 did 5.5, so we would be -- now, City of Ingram was 1.5. I 2 think the school's considering 1.5. I don't know what the 3 City -- I know they have a study over there as well they're 4 trying to work with. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know what the State did 6 for troopers? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. What, 20 percent? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 23. 9 MS. HARGIS: 23 percent. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Troopers, Rangers, and game 11 wardens, 23 percent. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And all of those are -- all 13 those are governmental agencies. What about the private 14 sector? 15 MS. HARGIS: I have no idea. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Below zero, I think. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What? Sorry, Commissioner. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He said private sector. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Private sector? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I was wondering -- 21 you know, you hear the screaming and gnashing of teeth, 22 actually, in Washington about government salaries here and 23 private sector remaining down here, and I think it's doing 24 one of those things. I really do. But I was just asking the 25 question. Do we have any idea what's going on with the 8-5-13 bwk 30 1 private sector? 2 MS. HARGIS: Well, I think that depends on the 3 region and the economic -- economy of that particular region. 4 You know, I had to give raises in my company whether I took 5 less or not, every year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Depends on what you have. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a long history. 9 MS. HARGIS: Not that much history ago. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, to answer your 11 question -- I mean, I don't have anything scientific. I do 12 know that -- just what I hear is that there have been 13 increases. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have a company. What 15 are y'all doing? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We gave probably about 8 17 percent for employees. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have room for three 19 or four other guys? (Laughter.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- you know, it's -- 21 but some of them hadn't had raises in a couple years either, 22 so it's kind of -- but, you know, I don't base my decisions 23 here based on what I do in my private company. But I think 24 that the -- I do -- I will say that for a lot of jobs in this 25 area, the oil boom south has caused people to drive wages up. 8-5-13 bwk 31 1 There are, you know, people like equipment operators, I mean, 2 pretty much across the board. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Across the board. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's not a real large labor 5 pool, and there's a lot of demand. And, I mean, I think 6 there is, overall, probably higher than the national average 7 an increase in salaries in this area, you know, just because 8 you have to -- you have to have employees. 9 MS. HARGIS: And we've lost them here to the -- to 10 the oil field. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There's a -- you know, 12 I'm surprised at the number of people -- I think some people 13 in Comfort -- my wife told me, "So-and-so went down there to 14 start working." Really? People you wouldn't think would 15 want to go work in the oil field. But the money's good. 16 MS. HARGIS: Money's good. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, you said the two and a 18 half percent was done somewhat systematically, so elaborate a 19 little bit more. 20 MS. HARGIS: Systematically, we look at our 21 position schedule, the current salaries. We take -- we 22 multiply that, plus the effect on the retirement and the 23 Social Security, so we have to take all of that into 24 consideration. So, when we multiply the 2.5, we also put 25 roll-ups in there as well. 8-5-13 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, but I'm just saying, you 2 said a while ago something about longevity -- 3 MS. HARGIS: Each year -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- to determine that equation. 5 I don't understand why longevity is -- 6 MS. HARGIS: Longevity is figured every three 7 years; employees get longevity. So, we do a new position 8 schedule at the beginning of the budget period with their 9 current salaries. Then we take those people who have 10 longevity, and -- and take their current salary, and -- and 11 figure their longevity, so we know which people have 12 longevity and which ones do not, because they get that 13 automatically. That's not a choice; that's a court order 14 that's been in place since I've been here. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: So, the longevity has to be figured 17 in, the 2.5, because they're -- they're going up in their 18 salary. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are mandated by current 20 policy. We established that policy back in 1999, I believe. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: And some of those this year will be 23 extensive, because they're -- like, practically everyone in 24 Juvenile Detention, 'cause I just finished figuring some 25 stuff on that. Practically everybody is getting a longevity 8-5-13 bwk 33 1 in that department this year. So, it -- it just depends on 2 when they started. If those people were here when it 3 started, this is the year that -- and there's a lot in the -- 4 in the jail as well. So, some of the costs in the salary of 5 the 2.5 is the longevities, which we have no control over. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see, okay. I understand 7 your comments now. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but if you are getting a 9 longevity, the way we've done it in the past, and we'll do it 10 this year, you get the 2.5, then you get a 2.5 on top of that 11 2.5. 12 MS. HARGIS: That's correct, because some people 13 don't get the 2.5 but one month or two months. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MS. HARGIS: You know, it just depends on when they 16 started. It's their anniversary date, so it's all over the 17 place. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's been a good policy 19 for us. I mean, it has enabled us to keep qualified people, 20 and the training is -- lowers your downtime from not having 21 people in jobs. 22 MS. HARGIS: Keeps us moving in the scale in case 23 there's no raises at all. Then at least they do move on the 24 scale, but they have to be here three years -- complete three 25 years, and then three years again. 8-5-13 bwk 34 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: Any other questions? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more items under that particular 4 workshop item? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not that one, but I'd like 6 to bring back one earlier. I just want to get clear on -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it covered under the workshop 8 agenda? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's covered under the 10 purchase of the vehicles. Is that a -- I don't think that 11 was a workshop agenda. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that was -- that's on the -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Regular? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- special, but we're going to come 15 back there. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that'd be great. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You can talk about that when we get 18 back there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: My question is, have we got anything 21 more to come up on the workshop agenda items at this point in 22 time? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everything -- the only 24 question I'm going to ask about it is, the proposed budget 25 that you're putting out, what we're talking about right now, 8-5-13 bwk 35 1 that's going to operate in the proposed tax rate, or is it 2 going to be a proposed tax increase? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What we're looking at is the 4 effective tax rate, which is just -- 5 MS. HARGIS: .4135. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: .4135? 7 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. Any time you have the 8 effective rate as the lower rate, you're -- our value didn't 9 go up. When we were preparing the sheet that has to go in 10 the front of our budget, it was pretty amazing to see that 11 only $54,000 of the increase was attributable to value in the 12 county. The rest of it was new property. 186,000 was new 13 property. We got 234. We originally got almost 500,000. We 14 lost $296,000 between the preliminary roll and the certified 15 roll. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We normally provide -- we normally 17 discount that that's in dispute by about 20, 25 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: This year it was over 50 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 50 percent. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What do you think the total 22 tax rate's going to be? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We want to keep it within the 24 effective -- the effective tax rate. 25 MS. HARGIS: So we don't have to have a public 8-5-13 bwk 36 1 hearing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the current tax rate -- 3 MS. HARGIS: Is .4122 in the operating, and .0322 4 for Road and Bridge. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Total last year was .4472 or 6 82? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: .443, I think. 8 MS. HARGIS: I don't -- you know, I can't -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, everything we're saying 10 relative to -- adds to the budget within that tax rate. 11 That's what you're saying? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what I thought you 14 said. 15 MS. HARGIS: We may have to use a little fund 16 balance. Depends on -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay, because we've 18 come up to our 25 percent. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, and we're going to try -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have a problem with 21 that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to try and keep that 25 23 percent, too. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have no problem with that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's an additional target goal 8-5-13 bwk 37 1 that we have, and we're going to try and shoehorn everything 2 in. Believe me, we've been crunching the numbers. She's 3 been crunching the numbers more than I. 4 MS. HARGIS: Crunching some more numbers. But I do 5 have a few schedules for y'all to take into executive session 6 with you so that you can know the impact of some of the study 7 in different -- in some areas. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This has to do with the MGT study, 10 and that's an agenda item. But let me -- let me close up the 11 workshop if we don't have anything else to do on the 12 workshop. Yes, sir? 13 MR. KEENEY: Judge, may I address the Court? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You're a taxpayer here in the 15 county, aren't you? 16 MR. KEENEY: Yes, I am. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, come take a shot. 18 MR. KEENEY: As little as possible. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're trying to keep it that way, 20 too. 21 MR. KEENEY: Yeah. I'm Mark Keeney; I'm president 22 of the Board of Directors of the Elm Pass Volunteer Fire 23 Department. We're kind of the -- the runt of the litter out 24 there, but I wanted to share some things with you. I felt 25 like you addressed Tierra Linda in specific, but I don't 8-5-13 bwk 38 1 think you've addressed all of the fire departments in 2 general. And just some examples; last year we got $80,000 in 3 grant money to purchase a used tanker, and it was 4 refurbished, and we got it out of Illinois. This year I've 5 got an application in for a brush truck, a purpose-built 6 brush truck, and we'll get $78,000 of that from the Texas 7 Forest Service and through H.B. 2604. And we'll come out -- 8 we'll have to come up with another $9,000, which we have. 9 Our budget has increased, and we're very, very appreciative 10 of that, over the years. Right now, we're putting off 11 purchases of some necessary items till after the 1st of 12 October, because we're right up to the -- and we're a small 13 department. Oh, by the way, we gave our department members a 14 COLA of 200 percent. (Laughter.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I thought it was an infinite. 17 MR. KEENEY: Planning on 500 next year. But the 18 point is, our little department spends $8,000 a year on 19 insurance. We spend all the budget; we always have. And we 20 don't make a point of spending it all. It just happens. 21 We've done it again this year, even with the increase. And 22 we can -- you're looking at eight volunteer fire departments 23 in the county and two outside, and if you're looking at a 24 $5,000 increase per department, that's only $40,000; $50,000 25 if you give that much to Comfort and Tierra Linda. And we 8-5-13 bwk 39 1 spent more -- we'll be spending more than that on a truck. 2 We'll be spending much more than that, if I get a grant from 3 U.S. Department of Agriculture, on finally putting a well in 4 in our department. We've had to truck water from Center 5 Point or Bandera, and we've had to draft it illegally out of 6 the river to get our water supply all these years. Our 7 newest vehicle right now is that tanker that I just 8 mentioned; that's a 2005. 9 We have a 1999 brush truck. We have a 2002 brush 10 truck. We have a 1975 pumper tanker for fighting structure 11 fires, and we just recently purchased a U.T.V. to get with 12 the firefighting skid and the rescue skid to get up some of 13 those steep mountains in southeast Kerr County. So, please 14 give us all the consideration you possibly can, 'cause we can 15 spend all of it very easily, and we can do it in a most 16 effective way. One other thing. There are two major 17 programs in the United States today. One is a program called 18 Firewise, and one is a program called Ready, Set, Go! We get 19 all the support we need to provide all the materials that we 20 can, but we do need to have some additional money to carry 21 that to the rest of the county. Tierra Linda's doing it now, 22 and we're going to try to get started up in south Kerr 23 County. Thank you for your time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sir, let me ask you, you mentioned 25 your insurance cost. Does any of that insurance cost include 8-5-13 bwk 40 1 worker's comp? 2 MR. KEENEY: No. No, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. KEENEY: No, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause you guys are covered under 6 our worker's comp. 7 MR. KEENEY: Yes, sir, I understand that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. KEENEY: I understand. One other thing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I just wanted to make sure we 11 weren't doubling over here. 12 MR. KEENEY: Yeah. One other thing. It was 13 mentioned earlier that we make pretty good money -- some of 14 the departments make pretty good money from fundraisers, and 15 that's true. But out where we're at, we are the lowest 16 populous of the -- of the county, and we're a fairly small 17 district. But we have an annual rummage sale. If -- I 18 figured it up last year. All the hours that our members 19 spent compared to the return that we got, we were all working 20 for less than minimum wage. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on the workshop 24 agenda? Okay, I will adjourn the workshop. 25 (Workshop was adjourned at 2:40 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 8-5-13 bwk 41 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of August, 2013. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-5-13 bwk