1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, June 9, 2014 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: TOM POLLARD, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 9, 2014 2 PAGE 3 Participate in Budget Workshops with county departments, including, but not limited to: 4 Road & Bridge (capital list) 3 5 District Clerk 27 6 Law Library 37 7 Jury 52 8 Alternate Dispute Resolution 57 9 Sheriff's Office/Jail (cut list) 61 10 Public Library 82 11 Volunteer Fire Departments 87 12 Parks 91 13 General discussion 93 14 ADJOURNED 106 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, June 9, 2014, at 1:30 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 (Commissioner Letz not present.) 8 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. The Commissioners Court 9 workshop agenda for June 9th, 2014, at 1:30 p.m. -- set at 10 1:30 p.m., and it's now about 1:34 p.m. -- is now called into 11 session. We're short one Commissioner, Commissioner Letz. I 12 hope he'll be along shortly. Let's see, where do we start? 13 Where's Jeannie? 14 MS. HARGIS: I'm right here. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: I'm -- we need to start with Road and 17 Bridge again. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Road and Bridge again. Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge again. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Charlie, are you going to -- 21 MR. HASTINGS: Sure. 22 MS. HARGIS: Actually, I think they were supposed 23 to address their capital, which I have a list. Thank you, 24 Charlie. 25 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. We met with y'all last week, 6-9-14 bwk 4 1 and we looked at the capital. We had $600,000, $700,000 2 worth of items that were identified, and went back and -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Charlie, which page are you 4 on? 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: 121 in your notebook. 6 MS. HOFER: I don't know if you got this shortened 7 list, but here's a copy. 8 MR. HASTINGS: I don't know if it's in the 9 notebook. Is it in the notebook, Jeannie? 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: The capital items. 11 MS. HARGIS: It's under Road and Bridge tab. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What page? 13 MS. HARGIS: Page -- it says up at the top 36. 14 It's a separate fund. I'm on a different tab, excuse me. 15 Road and Bridge is in the back. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it. What page? 17 MS. HARGIS: You're going to start with just 18 Page 1, and he's going to start with his capital, and then go 19 to the -- the very last page, which would be 121. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 131? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 21. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 21. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 121. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: 36, 34, 31. It jumps around. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aggie counting. 6-9-14 bwk 5 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Is it 121? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're talking about -- 3 when you use the word "capital," you're talking about capital 4 outlay? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 7 MS. HARGIS: 570. 8 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE POLLARD: All right, thank you. Got it. 10 MS. HARGIS: It's about two or three pages back. 11 Page 121. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Now, is any part of this reflected 13 on the handout you handed out today? 14 MS. HARGIS: The handout he's handed out, it's my 15 understanding, is their proposed -- what they would like to 16 have. Is that correct? 17 MR. HASTINGS: It's what we need. We've been asked 18 to look at our list and reduce it down to a number somewhere 19 around 250,000 of what we need. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Now, that is on the one here, 21 the -- the budget summary draft, and it's Road and Bridge 22 operating, 15? 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, and it is -- he's 10 percent 24 in the hole. So -- 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Have you found it, Ms. Caraway? 6-9-14 bwk 6 1 MS. CARAWAY: No. 2 MS. HARGIS: That's not the right page. The 3 summary sheet is correct. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: While they're finding that, I 5 think what we did starting last time, we looked at that line 6 item -- 7 MS. HARGIS: It's 654,000, I believe. Should be 8 looking at 654, and it's under the capital line, 15-611-570. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I was just going to say on 10 line item 570, last time you had 654, and we said take a look 11 at what you could -- 12 JUDGE POLLARD: This is kind of your wish list? 13 MR. ODOM: It was a wish list. 14 MR. HASTINGS: It was a wish list of items needed. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- cut down from 654 to 250, 16 and that's what you've done. 17 MR. HASTINGS: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, got you. 19 MR. HASTINGS: We've got them prioritized on the 20 left, Items 1 through 6. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Mr. Hastings, your Item 22 Number 6, three-quarter ton Ford pickup, 40,000, was that 23 prior to -- is that in addition to the pickup that we just 24 designated this morning, or was that pickup -- 25 MR. HASTINGS: This is in addition to. 6-9-14 bwk 7 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Addition? 2 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: On your Items 1 through 6, 4 that's at the bottom. 5 MR. HASTINGS: That's at the bottom. 6 MR. ODOM: That is. Yes, that was prior to him 7 knowing -- before Charlie came in, so we had already had that 8 put into the list there to do that, replace it. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I just wanted to make sure 10 that -- 11 MR. HASTINGS: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- you're not going to end up 13 with two trucks and you only needed one. But you need -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: We're still going to need this one. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: As I recall, Leonard said he wanted 16 two dump trucks. 17 MR. ODOM: Sir? 18 JUDGE POLLARD: I see only one here. Is that 19 right? 20 MR. ODOM: The first list I gave you was two dump 21 trucks. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, sir. 23 MR. ODOM: I believe. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Talking about right here. 25 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 6-9-14 bwk 8 1 JUDGE POLLARD: I got you. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. But my question is, 3 there isn't -- there's just one dump truck on this -- 4 MR. ODOM: That's right. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: -- 1 through 6 list. 6 MR. ODOM: Realistically, if we can get the one, 7 we'll be in pretty good shape. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 MR. ODOM: And we can go to Precinct 1 and work, 10 maybe. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's give it to him, boys. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, just in summary, again, 13 y'all have gone from 654 last week to 250 -- this is your -- 14 this is how you get it down to 250,000? 15 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. And your overall feel 17 on if you do this, you're okay? 18 MR. HASTINGS: This is going to take care of some 19 needs. We've talked about the welder being kaput. We 20 originally said we needed two dump trucks. We do, but if 21 push comes to shove, one over two, because it allows us to -- 22 to get some other items that are needed as well. The F-350, 23 the side dump trailer, that's going increase productivity 24 tremendously. It helps us out quite a deal, because that 25 side dump trailer can haul so many yards all at once. And 6-9-14 bwk 9 1 you can see the other items we've got there; the 2 hydro-seeder, that's very important to reestablish vegetation 3 on the road sides and to be in compliance with federal 4 regulations and Environmental Protection Agency laws and so 5 forth that are either already in place or are forthcoming, 6 and just going to get tougher. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask you a question on 8 the hydro-seeder. We've never had a hydro-seeder before? 9 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So now -- 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Because of the federal regulations, 12 we have to have one. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that is -- so now we have 14 to have one, whereas before we didn't need one? Is that -- 15 am I understanding? 16 MR. ODOM: That is -- well, "yes" is the answer to 17 the question, because it is getting more and more necessary 18 to revegetate ditches and all, essentially ditches. 19 (Commissioner Letz joined the meeting.) 20 MR. ODOM: T.C.E.Q. says we're responsible for what 21 the farmer or rancher does to his land. When it gets in our 22 ditch, then they're trying to hold us responsible for it. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 24 MR. ODOM: So the best way to filter that out is 25 having grass when we pull ditches. 6-9-14 bwk 10 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Keeps it from eroding. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Holds it. 4 MR. ODOM: That's right. Which goes into the 5 streams, and then you're -- you're pushing T.C.E.Q. 6 MR. HASTINGS: Hydro-seeders are the way to go. 7 I've used different methods in the past and had different 8 results, but hydro-seeding and getting that seed down into 9 the soil is -- is very important, instead of it just being on 10 the surface and birds and animals taking it, or it washing 11 away in the rain and so forth. This gives you a little bit 12 more ability to get the grass to germinate and grow faster. 13 But, you know, in years past, the environmental laws weren't 14 so tough. They're getting tougher and tougher. So, you 15 know, we would -- didn't necessarily need this in the past, 16 but to keep up with that and keep up with the number of 17 people that we have and the manpower, this becomes a very 18 important piece of equipment. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry to be here late. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: That's all right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're on a topic near and dear 23 to my heart, hydro-seeding. I think what it's -- what I 24 heard Charlie say is correct. It is a big help, but it's 25 certainly -- it's also not a fix-all. Without water, it 6-9-14 bwk 11 1 still isn't going to grow. And you get ditches there; if you 2 get a hard rain, it's going to wash right -- it will leave a 3 lot of it, but it's going to wash a lot of it off. But it 4 does show at least an intent of us trying to do it the right 5 way. And it does -- and that's an important part of the 6 intent to doing it the right way rather than just doing it. 7 But one of the things I think is very important, and 8 something we need to add to our subdivision rules, this 9 seeding we do needs to be native seeds. We need to, you 10 know, start the practice of -- and the ryegrass is what we -- 11 you know, a lot of our developers use it, and it's a good 12 thing, but it's not the right thing to do. The right thing 13 costs a little bit more to do native seeding. I don't think 14 we're talking about that much seeding, but I think it's 15 something we should really look at, rather than just going 16 and throwing stuff out there that's really wrong. It may get 17 it green in a hurry, but it's not the long-term solution. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I agree. Is there -- on that 19 subject, is there a good source of native seed besides -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two. Two best sources 21 around here are Breckenridge Seed in Breckenridge, Texas, or 22 Native American in Junction. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both of them have wildlife, and 25 they have mixes for -- they call them caliche mix, and 6-9-14 bwk 12 1 there's ornamental mixes. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: They have seeds for the area, 4 whatever soil you have. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: And they are more likely to 7 survive. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you can mix all those with 10 no -- and go in with the hydro-seeder. So, like I say, 11 they're not -- you know, they're not a magic fix, 12 hydro-seeders, but they do work. And if you have an area, 13 like, along a road, they're good. If you're out there trying 14 to -- there's a lot of other applications I don't -- I'm not 15 a big proponent of, but along road right-of-ways, they work. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MR. ODOM: And corollary to that to add is that 18 that machine, in case there's a fire, we have that gun; we 19 can shoot out 200 feet from where we're at, so it's a good -- 20 it is a backup for fires for us. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: Multi-use. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Very good. Well, that leaves -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you want this instead of 25 your truck? Is that what I heard? 6-9-14 bwk 13 1 MR. HASTINGS: No. The hydro-seeder? I drive that 2 to work every day, and seed all the way. (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE POLLARD: So you cut off of your prior list 4 at least one dump truck, and are there other major items 5 there that -- that you could describe for us right quick that 6 you cut off or are not going to be able to get? 7 MR. HASTINGS: Wing shredder, John Deere 8 tractor-mower, replacement for the Tahoe, the Ford 9 Expedition, and a cold planer -- John Deere cold planer. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Those are the major ones. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Len, on any of these, depending 13 on how the budget looks a little bit further down, have you 14 looked at -- we used to -- or you used to bring to us a lot 15 more lease-purchase options, and we got away from that. 16 We're trying to buy a lot more up front. If we're going into 17 a budget situation where we don't have 250,000, some of these 18 items -- 19 MR. ODOM: The tractors for your mowers -- the 20 shredders we'll probably have to buy. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. ODOM: But on the tractors themselves, we can 23 probably go with a lease. I have looked at it, but normally 24 if you took vehicles, I think Rusty's doing what, 60,000, 25 something like that? My trucks run 200 and 250; there's no 6-9-14 bwk 14 1 residual value left. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We were originally doing 60. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, possibly on the -- 4 not a lease as in long-term; like a lease if you are -- like 5 you did the maintainers and things a while back. And as I 6 look at the dump truck, the hydro-seeder, those would be the 7 items on here that I'd see that may qualify. 8 MR. ODOM: I'm not too sure I'd put the 9 hydro-seeder, but it may be it's an option to stretch our 10 money out. Maintainers, things like that, loaders, we 11 haven't bought in years. So, that's what we used to do 12 because of the lower capital outlay, but I will certainly 13 look at that. I will look and see if there's -- on the 14 hydro-seeder, I just don't know if that is possible. Maybe 15 so. I sort of -- sort of doubt it; I'll be honest with you. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May not be worth it. I mean, 17 the other side of that is that it ties up money for three 18 years, and if we need something for next year, it makes the 19 payment -- may make it harder the following year. But, okay. 20 MR. ODOM: We'll check on it and see if we can do 21 it. That's what we'll do. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: I think his question was more along 23 the lines of not -- not as to these six items right here, but 24 as to the ones that you cut off the list. Aren't you talking 25 about -- 6-9-14 bwk 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either one, both. I mean, -- 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- obviously, a welder, you 4 can't -- that doesn't make sense, and the grapple doesn't, 5 but on some of the -- International dump truck -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Pickup truck, et cetera. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pickup, possibly side dump 8 trailer, maybe the hydro-seeder, some of the -- you know, 9 when you get over, you know, around $50,000, it may be 10 worthwhile looking at it. And it's just -- you know, maybe 11 not. We'll just have to see. 12 MR. ODOM: We'll work on it and get back with you. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But good job of cutting it 14 down. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, I hate to bust the bubble here, 17 but -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Don't bust the bubble. 19 MR. ODOM: Let's not be negative. Don't need 20 negative waves. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Basically, Road and Bridge 22 stands on its own, for those of you who are new. That's -- 23 it's a totally separate fund. We don't give it money; it 24 can't give us money, so it's -- he has a cash balance, if 25 you'll look at your summary sheets that I gave you -- 6-9-14 bwk 16 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Which summary sheet? 2 JUDGE POLLARD: This one right here. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The new one? 4 MS. HARGIS: This. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, got you. 6 MS. HARGIS: It's about in the middle of the page 7 where it says 15. If you'll carry that across, if we let him 8 have everything that he originally requested, he would be 9 396,734 in the hole. That means he has no money. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MS. HARGIS: He's eaten everything up. If I -- if 12 we put the 250 in there, he will end the year with 6,766, and 13 I don't think you want to end with that kind of fund balance. 14 I think the lease option on these -- we get called all the 15 time now from the banks wanting us to lease. It's not my 16 favorite thing to do, but right now it might be a good thing. 17 Also, remember, in Road and Bridge, this is the last year 18 they get the money from the Tax Assessor's office on the 19 license plates. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: On the what? 21 MS. HARGIS: On the license tags. It was a 22 phase-out program, and it runs a year behind, so 2015 is the 23 last year that he'll get that money. This year he got 24 339,000. I don't -- and it's continued to go down from 25 around 600,000 over the 10-year period. Next year, I'm 6-9-14 bwk 17 1 figuring it's going to be around in the 300,000 range, and 2 then it goes away. So, his tax revenue is in here. It's in 3 here at 100 percent. He's liable to lose some of that. I 4 did not reduce this one. I did reduce the general fund. But 5 he needs -- he has his own fund balance. So, basically, we 6 can't take him down to 6,700. Now, the best thing I would 7 say for them would be for us to try to pay for the two 8 smaller items, if the Court wants to let him purchase these 9 items, go out and get a lease agreement for three years on 10 the others, and see what it's going to be. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Which list? The 1 through 6? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the first four items on this 13 list. There's no way he can even do the whole 654 even on a 14 lease agreement; that's going to be about 250,000 a year. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: He's already said he can do 16 away with -- he's cut 400, and now you're -- am I 17 understanding you're saying it's your recommendation of 18 18,000 in capital improvements, the grapple hook and a 19 welder? 20 MS. HARGIS: To come out of his surplus, yes, and 21 see what the lease option would be for the top four. We can 22 call one of the banks that is constantly soliciting me and 23 ask them, "Okay, I have these four items that cost 'X'; what 24 kind of interest rate will you give me?" And they'll give me 25 an approximate amount. But I'd just lump them all together; 6-9-14 bwk 18 1 I wouldn't try to go to different groups. And just get a sum 2 of money and do it. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What makes you think you can 4 even lease a side dump trailer or hydro-seeder? 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, you don't necessarily have to 6 lease them individually from the company. You can go to the 7 bank and say, "We want to lease these particular items for 8 three years." And -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Same way, what if you can't 10 find somebody to lease it to you? 11 MS. HARGIS: I don't think that's a problem. I 12 really don't. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You ever leased -- nobody's 14 leased a hydro-seeder. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, you'd be surprised. A lot of 16 the counties, this is the only way they get stuff, is to 17 lease. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: I think it's a -- borrowing money; 19 it's a lease. 20 MS. HARGIS: You're borrowing. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just buying it. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: You're buying it, that's right. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, peace. I understand what 24 you're saying. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like we used to do patrol 6-9-14 bwk 19 1 cars. You lease them for three years. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not just a lease; it's a 3 lease-purchase. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: It is a lease. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's lease-purchase. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Approved Buy Board. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I got you. Okay, I'm with 8 you. Lease/purchase agreement. 9 MS. HARGIS: I -- 10 JUDGE POLLARD: You think the bank will do any of 11 these? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, and I think that's really -- I 13 don't -- I just don't feel comfortable with just stripping 14 his surplus funds. He's got to have three months worth of 15 salary, and -- and some way to pay those bills before we 16 start getting tax money. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: To meet the 25 percent? Does that 18 meet his recommended? 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, just to make his payroll, he 20 needs that 25 percent in there. Because, again, -- 21 JUDGE POLLARD: For one month? 22 MS. HARGIS: -- we can't pay him out of ours; it's 23 a unit system. He has his own tax rate, his own fund. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option, and it's -- 25 and I'm just bringing it up; we could increase or switch -- 6-9-14 bwk 20 1 she'll probably throw something at me in a minute, but we can 2 take away some of the general fund tax rate and move it to 3 his tax rate, and increase his tax -- leave the total where 4 it is, and increase -- she's getting ready to throw 5 something. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Same total tax rate? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same total tax rate, but you'd 8 increase the Road and Bridge, lower the general, which hurts 9 the general fund then. I mean, it's a -- 10 MS. HARGIS: He's at the maximum, but he still 11 comes under a rollback. Right now he's at the maximum tax 12 rate. We gave him -- last year, we gave it back. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: So it depends on what it comes out. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MS. HARGIS: What his effective rate is. So, you 17 know, yes, you can switch the components, but we're not doing 18 so good in the general fund either. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, right. So, I mean -- but 20 we always have to look at that when we get a little further 21 in the process. 22 MS. HARGIS: We can't wait too long in the process. 23 We need to get some stuff tied down here. We're going to be 24 looking at July here pretty quick. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 6-9-14 bwk 21 1 JUDGE POLLARD: She wants decisions today. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand, but if we have to 3 adjust the tax rates, we're not going to know all those 4 exactly today, I don't think. 5 MS. HARGIS: No, but we need -- I need a decision 6 as to whether you want to give him these things and you want 7 me to get some prices so we know whether that even fits 8 within his budget. Because if it's as much as 250 for three 9 years, it can't be. It's got to be divided out in three 10 years; then he can afford to take that much down out of his 11 fund balance. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- anyway -- 13 MS. HARGIS: I mean, he -- you know, we hired a new 14 person, and that's kind of eating into his fund balance this 15 year, so he's probably not going to have a lot left over. He 16 generally doesn't, not like the general fund. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My feeling on this would be 18 that the trucks are more important than the hydro-seeder. 19 That's just my feeling on looking at the list. But it's his 20 -- their list. I think they need to -- Len -- and I'm sure 21 he's already done this, 'cause he plans a lot, as to what 22 we're going to need for the next three years in that 23 department. And I know we had the longer list that he's cut 24 a lot off of, but how much of that is he going to have to 25 have in the next three years? Because we really have to look 6-9-14 bwk 22 1 at it three years at a time, almost, when it comes to some of 2 the equipment purchases in that department. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: Nice to be able to take a long look 4 if you can do it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It makes no sense to go into a 6 lease agreement if he has to buy -- I'm just going to throw 7 out -- a maintainer next year. I mean, it throws out -- 8 'cause I don't think we're going to improve that much in a 9 12-month period. 10 MS. HARGIS: Well, keep in mind, before we got here 11 we were leasing everything. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: And now we've paid for equipment that 14 we're not leasing instead, and we were able to do that, but 15 right now we can't do that until probably 2018. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May have to go back and lease 17 for a while. 18 MS. HARGIS: So we're going to have to go back the 19 leasing. So if he's going to lease, he may want to go and 20 see -- may want to see what the lease amount would -- how 21 much you can get in there and afford to take, and for the 22 next three years. So, that might be the way to do it. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jeannie, can you give Len some 24 numbers and say, "You got to fit within this"? Look at your 25 equipment and then go and look at options on purchasing, 6-9-14 bwk 23 1 lease agreement and blah, blah, blah, so he can -- 2 MS. HARGIS: He's smarter than I am; he knows that. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So he knows what -- what size 4 budget he's got? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, he -- he knows, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You know that, Len? Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: Len stays on top of every penny. He 8 has -- he does double service of the books. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He knows the amount that he 10 has to fit all of this equipment within. 11 MS. HARGIS: This fund balance that he maintains is 12 his fund balance. He knows that magic number. But we can -- 13 what we can do is -- is call the banks and see what -- where 14 we can -- what range he's comfortable with. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 16 MS. HARGIS: And then -- and if we need to add, 17 we'll add. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess let me do it a 19 different way, a follow-up question. What fund balance does 20 he need to end up with, in your opinion? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 22 MS. HARGIS: He likes to stay within -- no lower 23 than 350,000. I think he would -- and really likes to stay 24 with about between 400 and 500, and that's not going to 25 happen. 6-9-14 bwk 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So what's the number he 2 needs to plan for, 350? 3 MR. ODOM: 350. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's what we need. 5 That's your -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's the number I was asking 7 for, right. Thank you for helping me ask it. 8 MR. ODOM: You know, there are some options there 9 we looked at several years ago. I've cut back on the 10 sealcoat program, and that might be something we look at too. 11 That -- that doesn't mean that I stop completely, but I'm set 12 up for the next year or so, so that is something that is an 13 option. It can give me some money that -- that we can spend 14 for equipment. If we don't keep up our equipment over the 15 long-term, Charlie and Road and Bridge are going to be in a 16 bind. I've got trucks that I think are new, and then I look 17 at the -- the age of them, and it's -- it gets frightening of 18 how much equipment is getting old like me. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, look at your budget. 20 Your actual balance needs to be 350; that's your end point. 21 You figure out how you want to get to there. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, if you do cut 24 your sealcoat, start down at that end of the table and come 25 this way. 6-9-14 bwk 25 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And finish at this end. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Start here and -- 3 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm still out there. You're in 4 pretty good shape. Two is doing pretty good, too. So I -- 5 you know, that's where we're -- we're looking at. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're the man. 7 MR. ODOM: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You even look -- 9 MR. ODOM: Talking about the Judge. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You even look nice today. 11 MS. HARGIS: Okay, we'll work to that end. I'm 12 sure he will know -- 13 MR. ODOM: I will get with you and we'll do it. 14 But 350 would get us there in an emergency, and then we'd 15 have to go to -- you know, to the feds over 100,000; we could 16 ask for help at that point. 350 would get us through an 17 emergency, I believe. The worst that I've seen in 23 years 18 has been less than that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good. 21 MS. HARGIS: We'll work to that end. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: What kind of emergencies are you 23 talking about, Len? 24 MR. ODOM: Talking about '01, '02 floods; '97, '98. 25 I spent close to 200,000, 250,000 to fix everything again. I 6-9-14 bwk 26 1 hope we don't have that this year. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: So it's a hedge against that kind 3 of an emergency? 4 MR. ODOM: That's the hedge. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- you know, we never 6 know year to year, but we're getting close to having one, 7 'cause we haven't had one -- 8 MR. ODOM: Haven't had it in 10 years. We've had 9 one every 10 years, so we're due again. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Thanks, Leonard. 11 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Now, I'm sorry, Jeannie. Would it 13 be all right if we -- the Sheriff is trying to get away on a 14 vacation. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Again? 17 MS. HARGIS: Not -- I really haven't had a chance, 18 though, but let him -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, y'all have it on the 20 agenda. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, if we're not ready for it 22 yet -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you aren't going to discuss 24 it, I don't care, but from what I saw, you are. 25 (low-voice discussion off the record.) 6-9-14 bwk 27 1 JUDGE POLLARD: I think he's already on vacation, 2 and we're using some of it right now. 3 MS. HARGIS: I'll be glad to -- I mean, the only 4 difference is we need to look at the cut list that we 5 prepared, and see whether or not you -- which ones that you 6 would like to cut. I think -- James, did you give them a new 7 one? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't even stay with you. 9 What the hell are we talking about? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: She's, you know, kind of 11 jumping down to -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to District Clerk, 13 going to Rusty. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- looking at reviewing 15 secondary things. So, Rusty can say what he wants to, and 16 she's got a new cut list -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- that she hasn't passed out 19 yet. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody? 21 MS. HARGIS: Let me have that printed, and we can 22 go to the District Clerk, and then we'll talk about that. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 24 MS. HARGIS: Okay? So the next one is the District 25 Clerk; it will be in the front of your books. 6-9-14 bwk 28 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Front of the book. 2 MS. HARGIS: On Page 36. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: 36. That's probably right behind 4 181. (Laughter.) 5 MS. HARGIS: It's behind Veteran Services -- 6 District Attorney. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: I'm sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm with you. Page -- 9 JUDGE POLLARD: I'm going to find it here in a 10 minute. 11 MS. HARGIS: There are a lot of tabs. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, got it. This is all 450's, 13 huh? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: It's here on this cut list. We 16 haven't seen the new cut list. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, we haven't got the new 18 cut list. They're copying it, I think. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: 450. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I show that we've added 21 2,000 to the miscellaneous line, and I can't remember what 22 that was. Three-quarters of the way down. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's conferences. She doesn't have 24 anything -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's conferences? 6-9-14 bwk 29 1 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We added 2,000? 3 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. BURLEW: Well, you know, last year I took on 5 Court Compliance, so I didn't actually have her conference 6 budgeted, but she went to a conference this year, so I was 7 allowing for that, and plus I sent some new employees to 8 conferences last year. So I'd like to, you know send a few 9 more this year, 'cause they're all new employees, for the 10 continuing education. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the total would be 8,000? 12 MS. HARGIS: 6,000. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's already included, okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: It was four last year. 15 MS. BURLEW: Mm-hmm. So, I just increased it 16 2,000. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And on the -- the deputy clerk 18 salary -- 19 MS. HARGIS: That's all of it. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When it increased in 2013 to 21 2014, was that an additional -- we went from 237 to 275? Is 22 that what that was, Jeannie? 23 MS. BURLEW: Well, Terry's there now. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So, that's what that 25 was. 6-9-14 bwk 30 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 3 MS. HARGIS: Notice she's not adding anybody. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Huh? 5 MS. HARGIS: They've not added anybody in the last 6 few years. You actually moved that clerk into her. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right, okay. That 8 explains it. The only question I had is, how's that work, 9 having Collections? Is everything smooth? 10 MS. BURLEW: Yeah, it seems to be working out 11 really well. I mean, she's collected almost 200,000 just in 12 the five months this year. So, I mean, the total they've 13 collected almost for both offices, I think Jannett's and -- 14 and my office, she's collected almost 380,000, her and Sarah, 15 so I think that's working out for us. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. BURLEW: Only thing is, on Court Compliance, I 18 mean, there's some stuff that we want to get -- you know, we 19 have those dedicated funds in the -- the tech fund. We'd 20 like to pull out 7,500 and maybe have Tyler come and -- and 21 improve, you know, like, our Court Compliance collections as 22 far as the program. And hopefully between the County and 23 District Clerk, we can have Tyler come and -- and where it's 24 a little bit more integrated as far as, you know, maybe 25 Probation being able to look at the delinquent accounts, and 6-9-14 bwk 31 1 then they won't have to call us. And then plus, they may be 2 -- she has to, right now, go into every case to find out, you 3 know, who's delinquent. Hopefully we can get a report to 4 where it'll automatically print and show the delinquent 5 accounts, and plus generate those for the -- for the 6 delinquent accounts. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that in that fund? 8 MS. BURLEW: That's in that fund, that dedicated 9 fund, the tech fund. We'd like to -- oh, is that what we had 10 in there? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Just to make sure, it's the 12 county-wide dedicated records management. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's Fund 33. 14 MR. TROLINGER: That fund we're talking about? 15 MS. HARGIS: No, 33. 16 MR. TROLINGER: No? 17 MS. HARGIS: 33. 18 MS. BURLEW: 33. What is that one? 19 MS. HARGIS: That's yours. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, that's the District Clerk's 21 technology fund. 22 MR. ROBLES: The one up here? 23 MS. HARGIS: Then there's another one, 42. 42 is 24 where they want to put it. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, the county-wide. 6-9-14 bwk 32 1 MS. HARGIS: It's not county-wide; it's County and 2 District Clerk's tech fund. 3 MR. TROLINGER: I'm sorry, it's combined County and 4 District Clerk. 5 MS. HARGIS: Not county-wide. 6 MR. ROBLES: We want to look at that one? 7 MS. HARGIS: And that has been changed, so you 8 might want to look on the screen on that one. It's got 19,6 9 in it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is 42 or 33? 11 MS. HARGIS: 42. And it is in -- it should be 12 behind the District Clerk's tab. It's not? Where is it? 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MS. HARGIS: It's actually under the County Clerk's 15 tab, because you -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What are we talking about? 17 MS. HARGIS: The -- okay, Fund 42, if you'll look 18 on your summary sheet below, is a dedicated fund that the 19 District Clerk and the County Clerk can use for technology, 20 and so they have requested -- and I think I put a note in 21 there -- 22 MS. BURLEW: Right, 19,6. 23 MS. HARGIS: Make a note, please. The note says 24 that she wants 14,000 for records on appeal, and then she 25 wants another 5,600 for iPlow. 6-9-14 bwk 33 1 MS. BURLEW: Or, I mean, if I'm not able to get the 2 iPlow, then we're going to -- I've got Tyler on board, and 3 we're going to try to research that and see if we -- with 4 what we have, then Tyler can come in and, you know, so it may 5 not be -- I don't know. It may be 5,600 or -- 6 MR. TROLINGER: So in Fund 42, what we want to do 7 is use the $14,000 for Records on Appeal. That's an add-on 8 to Odyssey, to the core Criminal Justice Information System. 9 MS. BURLEW: 'Cause we -- right now, you know, with 10 our appeals -- 11 JUDGE POLLARD: What's the benefits of that add-on? 12 MS. BURLEW: Well, we -- right now, just one 13 appeal, it takes anywhere from, like, three days to five days 14 to get an appeal ready to where, you know, she has to get 15 them copied and so forth, and -- and number them. And by 16 having this Records on Appeal, then it will automatically -- 17 she can, you know, like a click, she can point out which 18 documents she wants, and then it automatically numbers them. 19 And then she can automatically, in the -- in the civil 20 process, she can submit them to Court of Appeals just off the 21 computer, without having to mail them. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Which we're required to do now, 23 right? Court of Appeals requires electronic filing. 24 MS. BURLEW: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. TROLINGER: And that's exactly what the 6-9-14 bwk 34 1 technology fund is intended for, this kind of project. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Update equipment to increase your 3 efficiency as required by the higher courts. Is that it? 4 MS. BURLEW: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, just so I understand, so 6 out of Fund 42, $19,040 is going to the County Clerk, and 7 you're taking 7,500? 8 MR. TROLINGER: No, this is $14,000 for this 9 particular project, for the appeals -- Records on Appeals. 10 MS. BURLEW: Yes. 11 MS. HARGIS: That's the package. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And was this the same thing 13 we discussed when we were talking with the County Clerk? 14 MS. HARGIS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So that's another 14,000. 16 MS. BURLEW: No. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Now, for the County and District 18 Clerk combined, for the collections portion, we want to spend 19 about $7,500, and there is going to be on-site or -- or 20 remote assistance to get some reports that they need for the 21 Collections Department. 22 MS. HARGIS: I will tell you, the collection 23 reports are not good. And I think Jonathan was here, and Rex 24 even tried. We tried. They don't give us enough data. It's 25 one of the problems we've had. There's actually nothing on 6-9-14 bwk 35 1 how much money they're collecting that we're really getting 2 versus what they just collect. And the reports are just kind 3 of too generic. And they also feed into my delinquent 4 reports which I have to use at the end of the year, and it 5 would be nice to have a better reporting system in that 6 particular area, because that's showing on our balance sheet, 7 which is, you know, huge. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is someone going to tell me, 9 out of Fund 42, what the expenditures are? 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 14,000 for the appeals, and 11 they have changed it from the iPlow to Tyler, because Tyler 12 needs 7,500. 13 MR. TROLINGER: That's what we're estimating. It's 14 an estimate, but yes, we have to budget for it now. It's 15 on-site and remote programming. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 14 plus 75? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 14? 19 MS. HARGIS: 14 plus 75. So that's going to be an 20 additional 2,000, right? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- is that County 22 Clerk and District Clerk? 23 MS. BURLEW: Right, that would benefit the County 24 Clerk, the District Clerk, and then probably the Auditor, so 25 we're -- actually, three offices would benefit. 6-9-14 bwk 36 1 MS. HARGIS: The external auditor pulls those 2 reports. 3 MR. ROBLES: There's 28,000 in that account. 4 MS. HARGIS: 28,000 in the account. 5 MR. ROBLES: 28,205. 6 MS. HARGIS: This is a fairly new fund that was 7 created, I think, in 2010. 8 MS. BURLEW: Yes, 2010. 9 MR. TROLINGER: So, what we're trying to do, Judge, 10 is we're trying to use those dedicated funds for everything 11 we can to get all this -- you know, keep it out of the 12 operational maintenance budget. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: I understand. 14 MS. HARGIS: And that's all that can be used for, 15 so -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Fund 33, we're not taking 17 anything out? 18 MR. ROBLES: No, we are. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was on the sheet, I guess, 20 is actually 17,996. 21 MR. ROBLES: Yes, that's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: I think she is taking -- that's -- 24 17,996 is what's on the sheet. 25 MR. ROBLES: That's right. 6-9-14 bwk 37 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MS. HARGIS: That's a part-time clerk, scanning. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: And then -- then right behind that is 6 Fund 44. We have not collected any money in Fund 44. Fund 7 44 was established in 2010 as well. There's -- there's never 8 been anything collected, but I budgeted 100 with that, and 9 100 with the revenue in case something does come in. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. If anyone needs a 11 passport, they do a great job upstairs. 12 MS. BURLEW: If anyone needs a passport, just come 13 see us. You don't even have to make an appointment. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just have all your ducks in a 15 row. 16 MS. HARGIS: All right. We good with that one? 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. We go to the Sheriff now? 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, actually, before we go to the 19 Sheriff, the District Clerk has the -- Heather and the 20 District Clerk want to address the Law Library. 21 MS. BURLEW: The Law Library. 22 MS. HARGIS: Which is Fund 18, which is under 23 miscellaneous departments in the back. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Miscellaneous in the back. 25 MS. STEBBINS: I thought that -- I thought that we 6-9-14 bwk 38 1 went over this when I did my budget. Remember, it wasn't 2 listed and we included it. "Including, but not limited to." 3 MS. BURLEW: You did, but you're talking about 4 wanting me to take it back. 5 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, but I don't think that we 6 should talk about it now, 'cause it's not an agenda item. 7 MS. HARGIS: It is an agenda item. The Law 8 Library? 9 MS. STEBBINS: Yes. 10 MS. BURLEW: Well, what she's saying, the District 11 Clerk -- 12 MS. STEBBINS: The District Clerk taking it back is 13 not on the agenda. This is the budget workshop, so I feel -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Law Library is listed on 15 the workshop sheet, but I don't find it. It's under 16 miscellaneous. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's behind District Clerk, I 18 think. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it was behind County 20 Attorney. 21 MS. STEBBINS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Law Library. It's behind the 23 County Attorney, Page 127. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MS. HARGIS: The reason we brought it in -- if we 6-9-14 bwk 39 1 decide to change from -- and put it back in the District 2 Clerk's Office, the District Clerk feels that she needs to be 3 remunerated for that. There was a $5,000 law librarian -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You got to let everybody find 5 it. 6 MS. HARGIS: Under County Attorney. 7 MS. STEBBINS: I'm sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got it now. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Page 126? The revenue side. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: County Attorney, and it's in the 11 back in County Attorney. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: County Attorney, okay. Now I 13 got it, okay. Now I'm there. Thank you. 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Jumped from about 36 to 127 or 15 something. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 126. Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we want to move it back 18 to the District Clerk, and she wants more money. Is that 19 what I just heard? 20 MS. STEBBINS: I think so. That about sums it up. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now what? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, now, just to go back, I 23 mean, we took it from the District Clerk or the -- wasn't it 24 the District Clerk? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6-9-14 bwk 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it went to the County 2 Attorney, and the County Attorney said -- previous County 3 Attorney said he would do it at no cost. He cut a bunch of 4 stuff we didn't need, I think, and lowered the budget 5 substantially, and now -- 6 MS. STEBBINS: Now it's cleaned up. I don't really 7 know what it was like before. I -- I know very little about 8 the history of it besides what you guys have told me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And now you think it's -- you 10 would rather it go back up to the District Clerk? 11 MS. STEBBINS: That would be great. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What was the lesson learned in 14 moving it? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got rid of a bunch of stuff, 16 evidently, that we didn't need. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that means we're going to 18 pad it back if we move it back? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- I don't know all 20 the proper terminology, but it seems like that we get pocket 21 parts in the mail. 22 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they go into the Black 24 Statutes, maybe, or something like that. 25 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 6-9-14 bwk 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go somewhere. And what 2 else? And then what else is there? 3 JUDGE POLLARD: More books. 4 MS. STEBBINS: More books. Other books. But also 5 in that is the Westlaw subscription that the public has 6 access to, which is a pretty hefty subscription. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 MS. STEBBINS: And you need to help me; she's 9 probably -- 10 MS. HARGIS: LexisNexis. 11 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, it's a limited subscription to 12 that as well. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't most attorneys have 14 access to that through the computer? 15 MS. STEBBINS: A lot of private attorneys may or 16 may not. It's very expensive. And so I think that it gets 17 used upstairs not only by attorneys, but people -- probably 18 by other citizens who use it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So people actually still go 20 up there and use it? 21 JUDGE POLLARD: Lawyers go up and use it. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, there was an attorney in there 23 the other day all spread out using it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You caught an attorney 25 working in there? 6-9-14 bwk 42 1 MS. HARGIS: I did. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Rusty? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why -- why should we buy books 4 for attorneys when we don't -- we don't buy them for doctors, 5 we don't buy them for landscaping, engineers. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Because you have courts that use 7 law right here, and we have -- we have the judicial system. 8 It's our responsibility. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you're a lawyer. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm with Jonathan. Let me 11 ask, are we -- I'm with Jonathan. Two-part question. Are we 12 required to have a law library? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Apparently, we have to. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes, and we collect -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Wait. Wait, don't say that 17 too quick. The answer is yes? 18 MS. STEBBINS: The answer is yes. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we have to have one. 20 MS. STEBBINS: And we collect a fee. That is what 21 she was going to finish saying. But Robbin's office collects 22 part of that too. 23 MS. BURLEW: Right. Every time we file a case, we 24 collect it. 25 MS. STEBBINS: They collect a fee. 6-9-14 bwk 43 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And then the question is, how 2 much of a library do we need to have, and how much is it 3 used? 4 MS. STEBBINS: I don't know how much it's used. I 5 think -- well, I think that -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Are there records? Do we know 7 how much it's used or anything? 8 MS. STEBBINS: I can look to see in Rob's old 9 files. I know that ages ago -- and you probably got the same 10 e-mail, Judge Pollard, that said, "How much do you use the 11 Law Library?" And so I responded to that, and that was, I 12 believe, a year or so ago, right when he took it over. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MS. STEBBINS: So there's probably a little bit of 15 information on that, depending on how many people responded, 16 local attorneys. Not very much? 17 JUDGE POLLARD: But it's not just lawyers that use 18 the law library. 19 MS. STEBBINS: Citizens. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: A lot of citizens go up there too. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's used for you, as the 22 judge, and the other three or four judges we have, I'm all 23 for it, for using it for the library. The lawyers in the 24 community, they can go over to the city library; they got the 25 same books over there, I think. I mean, I don't know why we 6-9-14 bwk 44 1 should -- 2 MS. STEBBINS: We're required to. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: I don't think the city library does 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, it doesn't. I don't think 6 so. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, real quick, the 8 other thing, you know, we provide an electronic one for the 9 inmates. We provide Westlaw and LexisNexis on computer. But 10 if, through their own studies, they need the hardback to 11 write off of, 'cause they don't get the computer in their 12 cells, okay, then we have to check one out from the law 13 library and take it out to them. You also have that. I 14 don't keep a hardbacked law library any more like we used to 15 because of that expense. It was a major expense. And so -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever the minimum is we can 17 do. 18 MS. STEBBINS: And I think that -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the whole thing right 20 there. 21 MS. STEBBINS: If I understand what's been 22 happening correctly, this has not been the highest on my 23 priority of understanding the history and getting to know 24 what's going on with the county. I think that that's what 25 Rob was trying to do, was to get it down to the minimum of 6-9-14 bwk 45 1 what we need to meet the legal requirements in the Law 2 Library, so that -- so that we could do that. And -- and 3 it's still a pretty hefty expense. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can do it for 62,5? 5 MS. STEBBINS: I think so, with -- if you'll 6 consider a Law Librarian supplement back into the budget if 7 Robbin's office takes it back. In my office right now, our 8 Hot Check Collection Coordinator is the one who deals with 9 all of the subscriptions and the payments and -- and bringing 10 it in. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that supplement is 12 requested at? 13 MS. STEBBINS: It was $5,000. 14 MS. BURLEW: It was 4,000 -- 4,208. 15 MS. HARGIS: No. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you add in everything, it's 17 over 5,000. 18 MS. HARGIS: Actually more. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can we contract this service? 20 MS. HARGIS: Why would we want to contract it? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It may be cheaper. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For 5,000 a year? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. No, I'm talking about the 24 whole Law Library. 25 MS. STEBBINS: I don't know. I don't know about 6-9-14 bwk 46 1 contracting a law library. I do know that a lot of our 2 departments who -- who buy -- purchase legal books for their 3 departments, that comes from -- 4 MS. HARGIS: It's not just books for the library. 5 It's also books that we are required to have. Rusty has some 6 books. All of our paperbacks for the Local Government Code 7 come out of there. 8 MS. STEBBINS: Those aren't cheap. 9 MS. HARGIS: And they're not cheap. And all the 10 departments have to have at least -- we always get one copy, 11 so we need those. We live with those. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every two years, every deputy 13 has to have a new Penal Code, new Code of Criminal Procedure. 14 And -- 15 JUDGE POLLARD: At a cost of about $110 each. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Book about that thick. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's every officer. 19 MS. HARGIS: So this handles a lot of things. It, 20 again, takes it out of the general fund. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: J.P.'s too, out of their offices, 22 'cause they refer to them all the time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind y'all getting 24 books if we have to get them for your office to do your job. 25 MS. STEBBINS: I think that if I understand kind of 6-9-14 bwk 47 1 the rub about it, I really think the intent with -- and I can 2 look even more. I think the intent is to provide the public, 3 and not just local attorneys coming in to do their work. I 4 really think that's the intent as well. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: A good number of the local 6 attorneys have their own service; they subscribe to Westlaw 7 and things like that themselves, and in their office. So, 8 you know, there's some that don't have a big office staff or 9 anything like that, and they come over and use the county law 10 library. But I think for the main part, you're talking about 11 non-lawyers that are coming in and using the county law 12 library. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- again, I don't -- I 14 mean, if we're required to do it, we're required to do it. 15 But that doesn't sway me, the fact that people from the 16 public are coming to use it. That doesn't sway me that we 17 should provide that service. I mean, I think if we need it 18 for our judges, that's fine. If the officer needs it, great. 19 But I'm not -- I don't know why we should provide books for 20 the public to look at the law books. You know, that's not, I 21 don't think, the function of county government. 22 MS. HARGIS: That's what the fee is for. 23 COMMISSIONER REEVES: There's a separate fee. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Let's see if it's required. Let's 25 see if it's required. I have an idea it is. 6-9-14 bwk 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It is required. 2 MS. STEBBINS: It is. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They said it's required. I 4 just said -- I'm just saying the minimum -- 5 (Several people speaking at the same time.) 6 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: By law, it's required. 8 MS. HARGIS: $35 for every case that's filed. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget the minimum amount we 10 can get by with. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: I can't argue with that. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Can I help? 13 MS. STEBBINS: Sure. 14 MR. TROLINGER: The Law Library was established by 15 statute by the local attorneys that wanted to have this, 16 basically. 17 MS. STEBBINS: I was wrong. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Basically, the Local Government 19 Code says if you want to have a law library, here's some 20 things you have to do. And then you add this fee to every 21 civil case that you file, and then you set up a law library, 22 and you operate it and run it using that money. Is that 23 bottom line on it? 24 MS. STEBBINS: I don't know if it was by lawyers. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. The first question is, 6-9-14 bwk 49 1 then, does it ever cost more? 2 MS. STEBBINS: It was costing more. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: More than the amounts that are 4 charged when you pay your filing fees? 5 MS. HARGIS: No, we've never gone in the hole in 6 this. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Never gone in the hole on it. It's 8 always paid for itself? 9 MR. TROLINGER: So it's funded by filing the civil 10 cases. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: So we collected fees, and weren't 12 spending all of it. 13 MR. TROLINGER: And criminal convictions -- I'm 14 sorry. So, what we do is we have three computers up there, 15 and we have subscriptions to online service; the attorneys 16 can go up there and look at quite a bit. But they also need 17 the books, so it's able to funds the books, which is just 18 great. I think a lot of the law still -- they still need 19 these books. So, I get up in there probably at least once a 20 week to connect on the computers. I see it used often. 21 There have been issues over the years. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It sounds pretty simple. If 23 it's paid by the fees collected -- 24 MS. HARGIS: You just need to decide which office. 25 It's just right now kind of a burden on the new County 6-9-14 bwk 50 1 Attorney, because she's got her hands full. 2 MS. STEBBINS: I think it was a burden before, but 3 I'm not -- that's just from the staff that's been dealing 4 with it. They -- it doesn't fit into anything that they were 5 doing before, or -- 6 MS. HARGIS: And it fits with her, because it's on 7 the same floor, and people -- 8 MS. STEBBINS: She collects the money. 9 MS. HARGIS: She collects the money. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Would it be -- if she received 11 the $4,200, would that still be -- 12 MS. HARGIS: I think we could just move it out of 13 the 62 and leave it up there, and we'd still be all right. 14 MS. STEBBINS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have a suggestion. Let's 16 see, the fees -- the fee revenue's going to be 62,000, right? 17 MS. HARGIS: Estimated. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So fit everything within 19 62,000, including the -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Salary. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- librarian fee. Got it. 22 Deal. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what he just said. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we put it out for 25 bid, see which office will take it for the lowest amount. 6-9-14 bwk 51 1 (Laughter.) 2 MS. HARGIS: That's not fair. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've never been a big proponent 4 of stipends for all the stuff that we add in, and we -- you 5 know, Robbin -- don't they get a stipend for doing the 6 passports? Not any more? You did at one point. I thought 7 we did that. 8 MS. BURLEW: Oh -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Not in my time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But, anyway, I've just 11 never been big in favor of stipends and that stuff. That's 12 probably my biggest rub on this thing. But I'll -- whatever 13 y'all want to do. I'll be quiet. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Fit it within 62,000, 15 including the stipend. 16 MS. HARGIS: You got it. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, bye. 19 MS. HARGIS: Good-bye. Next is the jury. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then every time we give a 21 raise, the stipend goes up. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, true. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them. That's -- we 24 started out at 2,500, Buster, or 2,000, and it's grown to 25 this, because we keep on adding and adding. 6-9-14 bwk 52 1 MS. BURLEW: Sorry, Rusty. 2 MS. HARGIS: Under the District Clerk -- y'all find 3 the District Clerk tab, please. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: What's next? 5 MS. HARGIS: District Clerk, the jury fee. We just 6 need to -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Is that under District Clerk too? 8 MS. HARGIS: Page 25 under District Clerk. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 25 under District Clerk. 10 Stand by. 11 MS. HARGIS: It's under her tab. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, just wait a minute. 13 Wait a minute, I'm going to find District Clerk. Then we got 14 to find Page 25. It's after 36, I'm sure. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is the page after 36. See, 17 I'm beginning to get it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MS. BURLEW: Now, the jury, I've just left; I 20 didn't add anything on the jury. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Holy smokes, 30-something to -- 29, 23 15, 30 -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you buy meals for 25 anything outside of juries? 6-9-14 bwk 53 1 MS. BURLEW: Do we buy meals outside of juries? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 3 MS. BURLEW: No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just buy -- at noontime, 5 you buy a meal for a jury? 6 MS. BURLEW: Mm-hmm. 7 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. Robbin, can you look at that? 8 'Cause you got 53,000 in there again, but you only spent 34 9 last year. You only spent 26 this year. Don't you think we 10 could cut that back? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask a similar question 12 too, to Jeannie. Jeannie, look -- I mean Robbin, looking at 13 2013, the actual was 54,000. Then this year it jumped to 75. 14 MS. HARGIS: Where are you? You're not on the same 15 one I'm at. 16 MS. BURLEW: Oh. 17 MS. HARGIS: You mean the bottom line? 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. I'm looking at the, you 19 know, 50 percent increase in one year. So, what was -- why 20 was that? Went from -- operating supplies from nine -- from 21 9,000 up to 15,000. Operating supplies was 5, 7, 9, 15. 22 Wow. 23 MS. BURLEW: It was probably to reprint jury cards, 24 because the Legislature made changes. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Say again? 6-9-14 bwk 54 1 JUDGE POLLARD: She said it was probably the jury 2 cards. There was some legislation that required the printing 3 of jury cards. Once again, it's the state or federal 4 government. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a lot of printing. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But still, I mean, it's along 8 that line. I mean, we went from 54,000 in 2013 to 75,000 in 9 the current budget. We're at 63,000 projected year end, so 10 we ought to be able to go to 65 for next year. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Did you double the court days 12 for courts in this county when the districts shrunk? Which 13 added more jury days to the courts. 14 MS. BURLEW: Yeah, so we're sending out more jury 15 cards and doing more. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They may not actually have 17 more jury trials, but they get the cards. 18 MS. PIEPER: And they're printing the jury card 19 summons for all the courts. 20 MS. BURLEW: J.P.'s and County Court and -- 21 MS. HARGIS: But I do think that you can go down. 22 MS. BURLEW: Yes, I think it can too. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: We're just getting more litigious; 24 is that it? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 6-9-14 bwk 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lawyers. 2 MS. HARGIS: Let's go down -- 3 MS. STEBBINS: Stinking lawyers. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Robbin, what do you think you 5 can go down to? 6 MS. BURLEW: I think 65. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 65? Good deal. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Bottom line? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Bottom line. 11 MS. BURLEW: Yeah. 12 MS. HARGIS: So that means, then, on operating 13 supplies, you make that about 9,500. 14 MS. BURLEW: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. HARGIS: The jury meals probably need to stay 16 the same. And then we need the -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just curiosity here. On the 18 interpreters, is that so that the jurors can understand the 19 witnesses? Or for the jurors -- I mean, whose understanding 20 is it? What are we translating? 21 MS. BURLEW: Actually, the interpreters are the 22 person that interprets for the defendant. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the defendant. So -- 24 MS. BURLEW: During a jury trial. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So if you have -- 6-9-14 bwk 56 1 JUDGE POLLARD: When you have a defendant that 2 doesn't speak English. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they translate it to English 4 for the jury? 5 MS. STEBBINS: And it's terribly expensive as well. 6 MS. HARGIS: Because they have to be a certified 7 interpreter. 8 MS. STEBBINS: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. BURLEW: We can't just pull somebody out of the 10 office. 11 MS. HARGIS: We were pulling them out of the 12 office, but they were -- 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Woe to you if you're a defendant 14 and Jonathan Letz is deciding. 15 MS. HARGIS: We have 9,500 on the operating 16 supplies, 2,500 for jury meals, 48,000 for -- I mean, for the 17 meals, and then 5,000 for interpreters, which comes to a 18 total of 65,000. 19 MS. BURLEW: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have to provide 21 interpreters no matter what the language is? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 23 MS. BURLEW: Mm-hmm, yes. 24 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, absolutely. 25 MS. BURLEW: If somebody speaking Swahili comes in 6-9-14 bwk 57 1 here, we end up with a whole lot more in jail that we have to 2 get an interpreter for just to read their rights to. And it 3 may be Vietnamese; it may be -- it doesn't matter. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, you answered my 5 question. 6 MS. BURLEW: May be sign language, and that comes 7 out of my budget. That part is not in court. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: They're getting some from 9 Afghanistan too. 10 MS. STEBBINS: They get travel, too -- travel 11 expenses as well. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is a group in -- and she 13 actually lives in Boerne, and their office is in San Antonio 14 that does provide it. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You answered it, thank you. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The next one is Alternate 17 Dispute; it's an orange tab in the back of the your books. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I saw that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here it is. It's bright pink. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bright pink. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine's bright pink. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yours is bright pink. It's in the 23 back right in front of war memorials. 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 MS. HARGIS: Well, just a minute, Rusty. I forgot 6-9-14 bwk 58 1 about you. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, you didn't forget. 3 MS. HARGIS: You didn't want to go on vacation. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I better be here, 'cause you 5 whacked on it quite a bit. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 19,000 revenue, 14,000 7 expenses. 8 MS. HARGIS: We generally -- this is a court thing. 9 We have given him 14,000 a year, I know, for the last -- 10 since I've been here, seven years. There is a -- I don't 11 know if there's a fee for this. Is there a fee for this? 12 Alternate dispute? I think there is. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is. 14 MS. HARGIS: There's a fee. And some years we get 15 a lot; some years we don't. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is the title "Alternate 17 Dispute"? 18 MS. HARGIS: Resolution. Alternate Dispute 19 Resolution. It's for mediators. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: All other kinds too, as well. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's resolving disputes -- 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- alternatively. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Without going to court. 6-9-14 bwk 59 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MS. STEBBINS: So we don't have to provide 3 interpreters. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's positive cash flow, 5 19,000 to 14,000. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Most of the time, those fees are 7 paid by the clients directly to the -- to the mediators, or 8 those sitting at the time, and it doesn't even run through 9 the clerk's office. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. 11 MS. HARGIS: We did this -- I've forgotten the 12 organization that generally -- I think there's a -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a local one. 14 MS. BURLEW: Oh, it's Hill Country Alternate -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dispute Resolution. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do resolution. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The head guy's neat. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Ed Reaves. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, Ed Reaves. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: He is a nice guy. 21 MS. HARGIS: Do you want to give more? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm good. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Ed would appreciate it. The county 24 -- actually, the Hill Country Alternative Dispute Resolution 25 Center serves probably 8 or 10 counties, and Kerr County is 6-9-14 bwk 60 1 the one that contributes the largest sum to it. But Bandera 2 and Gillespie and several others -- we're even getting some 3 from Edwards County now -- or we're getting cases from 4 Edwards County; they haven't paid any money yet. Junction, 5 Kimble County has a hard time paying money too, but 6 occasionally we get some at the A.D.R. Center. But they 7 charge $300 a side, and it could take from 9 o'clock in the 8 morning till 5:00 in the evening, and each side pays $300, 9 and that's it. And they get a lunch with that, and hopefully 10 get their matter -- their dispute settled, and come back to 11 the court with a settlement agreement, and the case is over. 12 And the judge doesn't have to hear it. We won't have to 13 spend any money on that case, the County doesn't, except for 14 contributing towards the A.D.R. Center. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the courtroom is not 16 filled up every day. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I like about it. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, you can figure a million 20 dollars for each additional court you have to add, and if you 21 take the dispute resolution away, if it just added one court, 22 it's going to cost you a million dollars for the judge and 23 the court reporter and, you know, the bailiffs and everything 24 that's incidental to it, some more clerks and all of that. 25 MS. HARGIS: Is the 14 okay? 6-9-14 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. All right. The Sheriff has 3 requested that we review the cut sheet which you were given a 4 copy of. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where'd that go? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's this big one. I just saw 7 it a while ago. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mine starts halfway down this 9 sheet. It's 10-560 and 10-512 are the first ones. 512 is 10 jail; 560 is Sheriff's Office. It's the start of it. We've 11 made some recommendations on there. I'd like to go through 12 one at a time. First one's about middle of the page. It 13 will be 10-512-309, postage. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Hold on. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. All right. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's it. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Got it. 10-560? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 512 is the first one on your 19 page that involves Sheriff's Office and the jail. It's about 20 halfway down the page. 21 MS. HARGIS: It's right under the yellow line. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Uh-huh. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You got 10-512-309, which is 24 postage. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Uh-huh. 6-9-14 bwk 62 1 MS. HARGIS: You've asked for 1,800, which is what 2 you had this year, and you only spent 540. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But didn't I hear something 4 about postage going up in this coming year? 5 JUDGE POLLARD: I think it just went up about two 6 or three months ago. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two or three months, but it's 8 going to affect my entire budget next year. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So what are you saying? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I disagree with her 12 recommendation. I need more money in the budget. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much more money in the 14 budget are you asking? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I had originally 16 requested in that, Buster, 14 -- 17 JUDGE POLLARD: 1,800, I think. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 1,800, and she wanted it cut 19 down to 400. 20 MS. HARGIS: No, cut it down to 14. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or cut it to 14. I would 22 still recommend my 1,800. 23 MS. HARGIS: But you haven't shown a history of it, 24 and even in the current year, Rusty, you're at 500-something. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All depends on how many people 6-9-14 bwk 63 1 we get through court. Everything takes process -- or papers, 2 when you mail it out. It's not -- you know, inmate 3 packages -- I'm going to give you an example. Say the inmate 4 that was in the newspaper the other day that had 46 arrests 5 gets sent to the penitentiary, you know, for whatever it is 6 he's charged with. Everything goes with him. All those 7 prior arrests, everything goes with him as his penitentiary 8 packet, and behavior and everything out at the jail. Some of 9 those things are in boxes. All that has to be sent months 10 before he's accepted and transferred to T.D.C., so that's all 11 part of this. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: He's not saying -- he's not going 13 to send his records up there. He's going to copy them all, 14 and the copies have to go up there. And then -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, we have to mail 16 everything. And -- 17 JUDGE POLLARD: He has to give his -- keep his 18 original reports; he sends copies of whole boxes. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But this is just postage. 20 This is not copying. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is the postage of sending 22 all that stuff everywhere we do, and I would just -- I mean, 23 we could possibly make it with the 400 cut, but I just expect 24 it to go up this year. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Go for it. 6-9-14 bwk 64 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll do whatever this Court 2 wants me to do, but, you know, I hate budget amendments at 3 the end of the year. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Let's not argue over 400 5 right now. Let's hear his other stuff, and then we can 6 argue. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Maybe can find it someplace 9 else. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Next one she has on there is 11 512-310, which would be office supplies. I don't know how 12 many of y'all actually have your budget book out which I 13 printed for you, but if you have it and could turn to that in 14 it -- 15 JUDGE POLLARD: I have it, but not in here. Sorry, 16 go ahead. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Your office? Your budget 18 book? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, under the jail. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE POLLARD: I think he's talking about his. 22 Your -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm talking about the one I 24 gave you. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, I'm sorry. 6-9-14 bwk 65 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under office supplies, it's 2 broken out exactly, item by item, what that -- what we have 3 and what that covers. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: She recommended a cut of $2,375 out 5 of -- you requested 9,375, and she suggested cutting it back 6 to 7,000. And -- and her comment was -- well, there isn't 7 any comments. 8 MS. HARGIS: No, except on that one. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: 2,375. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This line covers such -- such 11 items such as all jail forms, magistration forms, bond forms, 12 court appointment request forms, court-appointed attorney. 13 It also covers, you know, pens, paper C.D.'s, notaries, 14 notary stamps, printed envelopes, receipt books. And I have 15 it all broken out to how many we estimate we would use during 16 a year, and that's the total cost of the of those current 17 bids we have. 18 MS. HARGIS: The average is less than seven. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, you're talking about 20 the $9,375? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you want it to go back 23 to that? Is that what you're -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. She's wanting to cut 25 2,375 from that. 6-9-14 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You didn't just say that to 2 me in anger? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jeannie and I will argue 6 separately, but we will always get along. And I understand 7 it's a tight year, but there are some things that I'm afraid 8 we need to look at. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 10 MS. HARGIS: Jail uniforms. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 315 is jail uniforms. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, on office supplies, -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. A little, bitty voice 14 in my ear over here says move on. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But I'm just looking at 16 historical; 6,600, 6,900, 6,800, and then this year it jumped 17 to 93, in this current year. And Jeannie says you're at 18 336.67. So, you know, golly, that was a big jump in one 19 year, 50 percent increase -- almost 40 percent jump in one 20 year, when it was pretty flat before that. I don't think 21 office supplies have gone up that much. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you'll flip to that in my 23 budget, it's all individual, itemized in there. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Well, I'm just looking 25 at historically, at actuals. 66, 69, 68. 7,000 would be 6-9-14 bwk 67 1 right in line. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Uniforms. 3 MS. HARGIS: Uniforms. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have not replaced all the 5 jail uniforms in a couple of years. This is employee 6 uniforms, not inmates'. This is employee uniforms. And it's 7 itemized out. This equals two shirts for 28 employees, two 8 pants for 28 employees, two name strips, Velcro, for 28 9 employees, two Class A pants and two Class A shirts, one per 10 employee -- sorry, Class A pants and Class A shirts are one 11 per employee. They wear a different uniform for day-to-day 12 stuff, and a different one if they have to be in court, okay? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- what was the 14 total all that came out to? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Total -- I have that. It all 16 came out to 6,225.24. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And broken record. The 18 previous year, you know, it went from 4,000 to 6,000, so a 50 19 percent increase. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's because I tried not -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Rusty, that's all I'm doing, 22 is just looking at trends; 2,000, 4,000, 6,000, 9,000. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Commissioner, I agree with 24 you, with your trends. I don't have a problem there. But we 25 try not to replace them every single year. And if I replaced 6-9-14 bwk 68 1 them every single year, your trend would be flat, but I try 2 and replace only the ones that get in real bad shape one 3 year, and then we'll replace some of just older ones the next 4 year, and your trend is not going to be flat. I can't 5 control that. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: This year, you didn't replace 7 as many -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't replace as many. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- as you anticipate for next 10 year? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On this one, I would say go 13 with Rusty's number. If he needs to replace them, he needs 14 to replace them. 15 MS. HARGIS: Everything on the next one, too, the 16 prisoner meals, probably, because we don't know what that's 17 going to be. I agree with him on that one. I'll take that 18 one out here. Don't cut it, because I've already cut it 19 drastically, 'cause we took the kitchen back over, and I'm 20 estimating in this and trying to make it at 90 cents a meal, 21 and I just don't know where our population is going to go, 22 and I don't know a lot of other things. I think that one's 23 going to be cut close. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Those prisoners are looking kind of 25 thin as it is. 6-9-14 bwk 69 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't agree with them, 2 Judge. I hear it every day. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: I've heard them complain. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't feed them? 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah, they don't -- they complain 6 that they don't get a whole lot of food out there, but that's 7 okay. We're not supposed to -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's the garden going? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going good. We're packaging 10 some things. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't use it out there, can 12 we? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. What we're doing is 14 finally getting enough that what we can't use up quick 15 enough, we freeze. Or if it doesn't freeze very well, we're 16 still donating to, like, you know, the three places, Dietert 17 Center, K'Star and them. The rest of it, if we can use it 18 fresh, like green beans, we're trying to package it and use 19 it in-house. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: And you're growing those gardens 21 with prisoner labor? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, they made a garden out 23 there. They packaged -- we've already packaged probably over 24 100 pounds of green beans this year, and we're probably going 25 back to pack -- maybe; we packaged another group Friday, and 6-9-14 bwk 70 1 crookneck squash and that we've been packaging. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Meals that they can live off; 3 they're just not going to be gaining much weight. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't need to gain weight. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 334, prisoner supplies. 6 MS. HARGIS: 29 -- go to 27. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have juveniles at 3:00? 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Hmm? Yeah, I do. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At 3:00? 10 JUDGE POLLARD: I only have two, but one of them I 11 think is a disposition, which may take a little longer. 12 Jason? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Again, it's itemized -- 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Excuse me just a minute. Jason, 15 are those two -- I don't remember the juveniles. Is one of 16 them a detention and the other one something else? What is 17 it? 18 MR. DAVIS: I'm not sure, Your Honor. I know one 19 for sure is a detention. I'll find out about the other one. 20 I still haven't received a docket, so I need to check into 21 that. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, there's just two on it. 23 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir, I was aware. I just don't 24 know what they are, but I'll go down the hall right now. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: They were just asking me. The one 6-9-14 bwk 71 1 that's something else may take a little bit longer. I could 2 take -- I probably could finish them about in about 30 3 minutes. I don't know. What do you think? 4 MR. DAVIS: Judge, let me see where they're at 5 downstairs. Let me see exactly what they are and I'll report 6 back. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: They are willing to wait if we 8 start getting pretty close. I think we can -- they'll wait 9 till maybe even 3:30. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be done by 3:30. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: I can't put it off after that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be done by 3:30. Let's 15 go. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 334 is prisoner 17 supplies. Again, this is a jump. It's 29,638 that I've 18 asked for; it's itemized out. And I think she's 19 recommending -- what, Jeannie? 20 MS. HARGIS: 27. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 27,000. The issues I have, if 22 you'll look in the Sheriff's budget, it still is itemized 23 out. This is replacing 75 mattresses, pillows -- 75 pillows, 24 10 sheets, 200 inmate uniforms, 10 cases of food trays, 25 wristbands for the inmates, five cases of it. And, yes, 6-9-14 bwk 72 1 female sanitary napkins, cases and cases of it. Blankets, 75 2 of those. Bath towels, 25 dozen of those. Pillowcases, 10 3 dozen of those. The sandals, we use 150 of those. These are 4 things that we just have to replace, and these are what those 5 supplies include, and cups, bowls, and toilet paper. And 6 it's all itemized out. And that comes to 29,638. 7 MS. HARGIS: Okay, let's go to the next one. You 8 had some chairs in there. Do you absolutely have to have 9 those? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nine chairs. Those are 11 employee chairs back there. They're just -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What's our number? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, our number on that one, 14 Commissioner, is capital outlay -- what's the line item? 15 MR. ROBLES: 570. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 512-570. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 18 MS. HARGIS: It's in jail. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, got it. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The nine chairs, I can 21 actually probably do away with those nine. We do have some 22 chairs from seizing the gambling devices that we ran, and 23 that seizure's done, so I have a few extra chairs that we can 24 use to replace those. But those are -- the emergency 25 restraint chair is the most expensive thing in that, and that 6-9-14 bwk 73 1 I do need. We have two, but we, unfortunately, are getting 2 more and more violent inmates, and there are numerous times 3 that we need that third chair. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're going to a third 5 chair, as opposed to something breaking down -- the other two 6 breaking down? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, the other two aren't 8 breaking down. I mean, they're still in use, weekly and 9 daily. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Just getting terrorists now instead 11 of -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I currently have two of that 13 chair. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much does that chair 15 cost, Rusty? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $1,500. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what you need in there. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I need that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,500. That's it. 20 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Jump on down to 570. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, 560 is the Sheriff's 22 Office budget. 23 MS. HARGIS: The big-ticket one is in the pink. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The additional employee. I 25 agree. Y'all know what my situation is, but I told y'all 6-9-14 bwk 74 1 that this was going to have to be something up to the Court. 2 I certainly understand the budgetary issues. We haven't 3 added patrol deputies since '01-'02. I need them. It is a 4 strain on everything to deal with everything the way it is, 5 but I can -- I'd love to at least get one and start building 6 up. I just don't know what to tell you. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Tell us what line item that is, 8 Rusty. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is -- well, actually, 10 it's not -- she'll have it scattered throughout the employee 11 salaries, I guess. Because I had to just provide it to you. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Is that it in purple -- highlighted 13 in purple? 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 560-100 starts it, and 15 everything under there down to the 215,000 from 235 -- 16 235,000 to 215,000 is -- all has to do with the employee. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So if you go in the front of 18 your books, the one I gave you, there is a letter that states 19 asking for the four employees, and there is a list of line 20 items in there, which I think are the ones Jeannie's cut. 21 The list of line items in there, I only had one copy, 22 gentlemen, and it's mine, of what those employees would cost, 23 and then the line items that were raised in association with 24 those additional employees. If you're not going to give the 25 four employees, then yes, I agree with taking all those line 6-9-14 bwk 75 1 items and reducing them by the amount I have in here, 'cause 2 that's what I estimated the additional new employees would 3 cost, okay? 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Now, you're telling us, Sheriff, 5 that you need those -- it's patrolmen that you need? Four 6 additional patrolmen? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's patrolmen. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: And you're telling us by not giving 9 you that, we're actually putting some of the public at risk 10 here by not being able to cover the county like we really 11 should be; is that correct? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I hate to tell you that 13 verbatim; I don't want to put this Court in that spot. I 14 will tell you, as you can see in my justification for those 15 employees, in 2001 we had 6,294 calls. In 2013 we had 12,975 16 calls, and I'm trying to deal with that with the same number 17 of employees. And we're getting a lot more violent calls. I 18 don't run two-man shifts. Every one of my officers, when -- 19 at one point when I first started -- and in '01, we weren't 20 working 12-hour shifts. We put everybody on 12-hour shifts. 21 All the patrol are working; I've got them stretched and 22 dealing the best I can. I need to supplement the patrol 23 deputies. Right now, I actually have two more on patrol, 24 because I -- and they're not permanent. I have two 25 investigator positions that are open, okay, but I've got two 6-9-14 bwk 76 1 patrolmen in training, two new ones that we have replaced, so 2 I don't want -- I can't even move my experienced patrolmen 3 into those investigator slots until I get the trained 4 patrolmen ready to be on their own on the street, and that's 5 causing us a lot of issues. But the main thing is, we've 6 dealt with the same number of patrol deputies for over 12 7 years now, and I need -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What it does for Rusty, and he 9 and I talked about it, it adds one more patrolman out there 10 for the entire county. It goes from four to five, correct? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And then -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No -- well -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're talking about population 15 not increasing, and I said, "Why don't you look at the number 16 of calls?" That's when he went back and looked at that. 17 It's just -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Double. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's the parameter that 20 says -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right now -- 22 JUDGE POLLARD: You got to have more. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right now, if there was 24 nobody -- and we have training; we have vacation, got a lot 25 of people adding up. That's why -- she's also got my 6-9-14 bwk 77 1 overtime cut in here, which I'll argue. But I'm having to 2 call in more and more to cover everything to keep everything 3 going. Right now, if it was perfect and nobody was off, 4 nobody's in training, nobody's on comp, vacation, I have five 5 people per shift. Five patrol counting the sergeants, okay. 6 All four more employees would do is give me one more per 7 shift. And there are times right now -- majority of the 8 times, I'm operating with four per shift, and sometimes I'm 9 having to operate with three, and that's totally unacceptable 10 to me. That's three people covering, you know, 1,100 square 11 miles. And this ratio of calls, with what we're dealing with 12 nowadays, you know, we count on drastically -- and I 13 appreciate, you know, D.P.S., Ingram. You know, our 14 constables help out some. You know, City of Kerrville has 15 run out into the county, especially Kerrville South, helping 16 us on calls, and we appreciate all that. But we should be 17 able to do our job. And more and more of these calls, 18 especially when you're getting calls, whether it's a domestic 19 violence and whether it's somebody strung out on meth, are 20 turning more and more violent. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's increasing? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's increasing. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: I think its a shame that we can't 24 do it for him. We can't. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I understand that. 6-9-14 bwk 78 1 JUDGE POLLARD: But I think it's a shame, and I 2 really do think that the next budget after this, we ought to 3 seriously consider starting to do something about it. I 4 don't know if it's just adding one more per shift, you know, 5 which is -- 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'd like to see if we 7 could -- we've got to make some cuts here, Sheriff, but if we 8 could leave one in for now till we get to a final budget cut 9 and take it all the way out. But could you use one, at least 10 as a rotating -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yes, I could. You know, 12 any amount would help. Now, I do have -- in that budget book 13 I gave you is also the cost right behind my -- of what one 14 would cost, and what those additional costs would be in those 15 other line items. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: You're estimating 108,278 17 for -- counting a vehicle for one additional patrol officer? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Versus if we add a full 20 shift, 433,122. And I'm not saying we'll be able to hang 21 onto it, but for now, I'd like to hang onto at least one 22 officer, and maybe next year we can find it for another one. 23 It may take several years, Sheriff, just because of the 24 money. And we may not even get it this year, but I'd like to 25 see one. Once the revenues come in, everything -- that would 6-9-14 bwk 79 1 be like one of our final trimmings. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would appreciate trying to 3 get it in, 'cause it is a serious situation. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: We may have to cut it, but 5 let's leave it there for now. So, if we do that, could we 6 get rid of the $400 postage? (Laughter.) 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You bet, if it stays there all 8 the way through. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sounds like trading terrorists 10 for a -- 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Easy. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Something else. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is one last thing in the 14 capital outlay, on that 560 -- 560-570. 15 MS. HARGIS: The vehicles. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Vehicles. If you will look at 17 that, that is actually -- the full amount was for five 18 vehicles, okay? Now, the recommendation coming from the 19 Auditor, she's cut it totally, I saw. This page cuts it to 20 zero, all right? 21 MS. HARGIS: We don't -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My deal is, I was asking for 23 four for the four new officers, and I was asking for one that 24 got cut out of the last C.O. And we're still hurting, 25 because when it got stripped, we lost a vehicle, and that -- 6-9-14 bwk 80 1 MS. HARGIS: We still have money in that C.O. I 2 would rather take it out of that C.O. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had some -- I had four 4 ordered that were in it, but we had asked for five. You cut 5 the fifth one out of it and told me to put it in the capital 6 outlay. 7 MS. HARGIS: You still got 300-something thousand 8 in there, Rusty. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: I had to -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Long as I can make sure I get 12 that same -- you know, that last vehicle. This wasn't just 13 for the four officers. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Auditor has -- you have 15 that one in capital. 16 MS. HARGIS: I think we need to look at that 17 capital. It originally had 300,000. I never touched that. 18 You've only bought vehicles out of it, so let me look at it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: We lost ground. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Because we're still looking for 22 more money. 23 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Just understand, it's 108. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's -- 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: One vehicle. 6-9-14 bwk 81 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's one vehicle for that 2 officer, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And we need one more? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And going down, I'm trying to 5 make up for the one we lost. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: From what she says, it's 7 available in the capital. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. So, it's two 10 vehicles total. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those were the issues that I 12 had. A lot of those other ones, just cutting them down by 13 the appropriate amount, or not giving the four officers, I 14 don't have -- that's what I show. If you want -- 15 Commissioner Moser, I can read you those line items and tell 16 you what that reduction would be in each one of those. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we wait until we get 19 the next printout. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that it? Thank you, 22 gentlemen. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Thank you. Have a good vacation. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long are you going to be 25 gone? A month? 6-9-14 bwk 82 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish, Jonathan, but no, not 2 quite a month. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put his budget back on the 4 agenda in about a week. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, right. Thank you. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: What's next? 8 MS. HARGIS: Now, the next one is the public 9 library, and that is Fund 19. It's in the back. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Public library. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's an orange tab. 12 MS. HARGIS: Mine's white. I don't know what 13 y'all's is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine's orange. 15 MS. HARGIS: Page 128, public library. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's back to the same thing 17 we've discussed over and over again. I think I sent a -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody zeroed this thing 19 out. Now, how did that happen? 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Public library? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, I don't know. I might have 23 had something to do with it, or may have been somebody else 24 had something to do with it too. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's see. The public 6-9-14 bwk 83 1 library, we have, since 1965, contributed 50 percent. We're 2 down to zero now. The -- let's see. The County -- in '65, 3 that's when we agreed to -- the court order said "contribute 4 50 percent." And then the County honored that up until 2011, 5 which it was reduced to 30 percent. And now county residents 6 pay $65 for full services. The county resident cardholders 7 has gone from 47 percent to 6 percent since 2011. And of the 8 560 libraries in Texas, county governments contribute 25 9 percent of the revenues to all the libraries. So, what I'm 10 suggesting is that we have $200,000 in the budget for the 11 contribution to the library, which is 27 percent of the 12 budget for -- the operating budget for the library projected 13 for next year. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I'll make is 15 that your analysis of the history made it sound like we just 16 arbitrarily cut it in 2011. It was an agreed-to -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- settlement with the City of 19 Kerrville for us to go to zero funding, phased in over three 20 years, which we honored that agreement. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, with that, I've been 22 thinking about it. I mentioned it to the Judge, and I think 23 all of us have talked about it. Maybe instead of putting the 24 200,000 in the budget this year, we need to look at what we 25 provide in animal services/environmental health, and I've 6-9-14 bwk 84 1 done that. And I've looked at what the city residents 2 contribute to that, and if we sat down with the City and 3 said, "We provide animal services and environmental health; 4 you provide the library," we're still going to be providing 5 more just from county funds in the city. So, what I'd like 6 to do is just come back to this, if we could on the library. 7 I think we've got a meeting with a couple of city folks 8 tomorrow, and see -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who does? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The Judge and I, okay. Just 11 to keep it to two, just to explore, see the feasibility. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On this particular issue? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And see if we can't just -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- just see if it's 18 conceptually -- you know, if we can -- if we can get there. 19 Start back where we were before, and then we -- then see 20 where we are in our budget, where they are in their budget, 21 and there's no additional funds. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I just hope both of y'all 23 make it clear, because I don't believe either one of y'all 24 were here when that deal was made in 2011. The deal was we 25 will take over 100 percent of animal control. 6-9-14 bwk 85 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They take over 100 percent of 3 the library. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And at that time, we were going 6 to take over the airport 100 percent. They decided they 7 didn't like that. But the deal was -- and there was no fees 8 included. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They should, in my mind, honor 11 the agreement that they made and not charge county residents 12 fees. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's what this -- that's 14 what we're going to be doing, Jonathan, just going right back 15 to that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think that's -- 18 JUDGE POLLARD: That's what we're going to propose. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's good. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. It's on the right 21 track. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, okay. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Actually -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So let's take this library 25 thing and just leave it right where it is, zero right now, 6-9-14 bwk 86 1 and see if we can't do that. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I think, then, if it 4 looks -- you know, if it looks okay, and there's 5 reasonableness there, then I'll bring it back to 6 Commissioners Court and -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: If it's not agreeable, we'll start 8 charging for environmental health and animal services. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There you go. There you go. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: And we'll pay some for their 11 library. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There you go. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $10,000 per dog. (Laughter.) 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Actually -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Expensive dogs. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not far off from that. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Probably not that. I think Ray 18 says the City's part is 490-something thousand dollars. 19 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it is. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: A year, I'm talking. 21 MS. HARGIS: The next one is fire protection, and 22 it's right in front of public library. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're through. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Huh? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have just cut you off; you 6-9-14 bwk 87 1 don't get to talk any more. 2 MS. HARGIS: He has to go downstairs. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fire protection. 4 MS. HARGIS: It's right in front of public library. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about the -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Volunteer fire departments. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- volunteers? 8 JUDGE POLLARD: This is at the back. 9 MS. HARGIS: Right in front of the public library. 10 If you didn't turn, you're in good shape. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- what has been our 12 history the last five years? Haven't we contributed -- or 13 upped the deal? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Raised it in 2012. 15 MS. HARGIS: Raised it in '12. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that all? 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It went from 15 to 21, and it's 19 been 21 since 2012. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, what -- and I haven't 21 seen any request made, Buster, by any of the volunteer fire 22 departments. Just knowing what their increased costs are 23 and all, I sure would like to see us go from 21 to 25 for 24 each one of the -- of the county volunteer fire departments. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- this is one of the 6-9-14 bwk 88 1 bargains we get, but at the same time, I'm afraid we chunked 2 the wad with the EMS fire contract. I mean, we're -- 3 MS. HARGIS: We just took a $300,000 hit in this 4 department. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, they haven't been 8 fussing about it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're very grateful. They 10 always need more, but they're grateful for what they get. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 12 MS. HARGIS: And some of them don't ask for all of 13 it even, still. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. I think it's -- so 15 we're contributing maybe, like, 50 percent of their budget, 16 and then they raise the additional funds. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: 50 percent? Mountain Home, 18 for example, were given 21 from here. ESD has about 35, and 19 they raised about another 35. It costs a lot more than 20 $42,000 -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- to run a fire department. 23 The 21, I understand. I'd like to do like you, Commissioner, 24 but I don't think we can this year. But I think we need to 25 hold steady on each of these volunteer departments. 6-9-14 bwk 89 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. I don't think we ought 2 to go down. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MS. HARGIS: And just to give you an idea, in the 5 areas where you tend to give them too much money, the 6 donations start to cease, and that's one of -- you actually 7 do better sometimes with others -- 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I disagree with that. With 9 the fire department, people open their checkbooks when they 10 need it. 11 MS. HARGIS: They do. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Have you ever called the fire 13 department -- volunteer fire department? Have you ever 14 called -- 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I have. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And did you write them a 17 check? 18 MS. HARGIS: I have never needed to use the 19 volunteer fire departments. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's just what I asked. 21 MS. HARGIS: But I'm basing that on what happened 22 in -- when they became -- all of them became ESD's in 23 Montgomery County. People stopped donating because they knew 24 there was tax money. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This isn't -- they're not -- 6-9-14 bwk 90 1 these aren't ESD's, though. 2 MS. HARGIS: Two of them are ESD's. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: There's two ESD's out here. 4 But I guarantee you, the donations don't shrink in Kerr 5 County, because they're needed. And I think checks get 6 bigger, honestly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we have -- they do a 8 great job, and they're well supported by the public, and we 9 should support them as well, and we do. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd encourage everybody to 12 go to that -- the thing out on the Divide. That's one of the 13 classiest parties I go to. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Need to go to every one of 15 them, 'cause -- 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Everyone, come July, you need 17 to go to Center Point. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They -- 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: You'll always eat good, I 20 guarantee you, wherever you go. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They work hard to raise the 22 money to provide a service. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They work hard. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: To provide the service. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 6-9-14 bwk 91 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: When there's a fire, they 2 don't look at what town you're from. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: We had a brush fire on our 5 place and four fire departments came; they didn't care where 6 the county line was, and they were there. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Where is it on the Divide? What 8 facility? 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Right past the gate to the -- 10 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. 11 MS. HARGIS: The next one is parks. It's right 12 behind the fire. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Parks. 14 MS. HARGIS: Actually, behind the public library. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have a question. Do we have 16 -- we have in the C.O. $100,000 for parks, right? 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. I don't have any 19 problem with what we have. 20 MS. HARGIS: I only put 15,000 in here this year. 21 I didn't hear from any -- for the three main parks, I put 22 5,000 each. We haven't come anywhere close to using any of 23 that money. I think -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But you increased the -- the 25 sanitary facilities? 6-9-14 bwk 92 1 MS. HARGIS: In there? 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. That's where we're 3 putting more port-a-potties in for a longer period. 4 MS. HARGIS: There's 73,000 in the account. So, 5 you know -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When it comes to -- on the C.O. 7 and the parks, we need to come -- do those items have to be 8 in this budget, or is that a separate budget? 9 MS. HARGIS: The capital budget is a separate 10 budget. It's not budgeting. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably, I mean, at some point 12 we need to look at that, 'cause there are things -- looking 13 at -- possibly at Little League fields, possibly at Flat 14 Rock, some sort of a way to get from the park to the -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- rest of the property. We've 17 talked about that for years. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have looked at this thing on 19 Lions Park of things -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At Lions Park, they needed some 21 things. We've talked about that. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possible restroom at that 24 facility. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. I think the restroom 6-9-14 bwk 93 1 problem would be further downstream. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, we need to look at it. 3 That money's outside of this money. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, precisely. I just was 5 confirming that it was there for that, so this is okay 6 otherwise. Okay from my perspective. 7 MS. HARGIS: I think the parks, you have a 8 sufficient amount of cash reserve in that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the reserve? 10 MS. HARGIS: It's $73,000 in there. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, that's good. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: So there's more there if you need it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: All right? Okay, I think we have been 17 through every department that we have, and -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're done. 19 MS. HARGIS: Everybody's talking about the revenue. 20 The revenue, per se, the preliminary roll is in the budget, 21 and the fees are based on the average of what we're 22 collecting now, the revenues in there. As far as I -- I 23 mean, I can -- the only thing I can push would be sales tax, 24 and right now I'm not pushing that until I see a better -- a 25 better average. 6-9-14 bwk 94 1 JUDGE POLLARD: With these adjustments today, do 2 you know, how much are we short now? What's the shortfall? 3 MS. HARGIS: We're still short a million, six. We 4 took out some of Rusty's, but I'd like to go over a few more 5 of these others real quickly, if we can. The big-ticket 6 items are the new employee requests. There were three 7 additional employees asked for in the election department -- 8 two employees in the election department for a total of 9 89,000. Then there was another employee in the Tax 10 Assessor's office for 44, so those are the large items. The 11 rest of them are smaller. We did go down on the jury meals, 12 a couple of those things when we were in the jury. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jeannie, is that the only 14 place there was new employees? That was two in elections and 15 one in the Tax Assessor? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes, and then -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only place in the county 18 system? 19 MS. HARGIS: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Besides Rusty? 21 MS. HARGIS: And Rusty. And there was one -- Tim 22 requested one in Maintenance, and there's one requested in 23 I.T. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. If you did away with 25 all of the new employee requests across the board, what would 6-9-14 bwk 95 1 that leave us? How short would we be then? 2 MS. HARGIS: We're still going to probably be 3 around 700,000 or 800,000, because we came into the year with 4 a 300,000 increase from City. We are paying our debt service 5 for the issue that we just did of 200,000, and then we've got 6 the new one for the airport for 200,000. Those, I can't make 7 go away. So if we just get down to those, 700,000 or 800,000 8 will only bring me down to about 22 -- 21 percent, which is 9 not -- I'd really like to stay above the 20 percent. And if 10 any of you have any other -- 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, if you spread it over all of 12 the departments, 700,000 shortfall, still taking away all the 13 new employees, if you spread them over all the departments, 14 what would that be, about another 3 percent we need to cut 15 from the budget across the board? 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, the other thing we have in here 17 is -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half percent increase 19 for all -- for all employees. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Is that in here? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. It's in 409, if you'll look 23 in 409. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Say again? I'm sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably near 800,000. 6-9-14 bwk 96 1 MS. HARGIS: No, it's spread out amongst the funds 2 in Fund 10. It's a total of about -- it comes in about 275. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: 280. 5 MR. ROBLES: 233 for the -- 6 MS. HARGIS: 233, and then the benefits are 49. 7 MR. ROBLES: 47. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see Ms. Alford in the back. 9 Does she have any statement she'd like to make? She's been 10 sitting here very quiet, as she normally does. But on new 11 employees -- 12 MS. ALFORD: No. I mean, we could use another 13 employee in the elections department, and if we could have 14 one in the elections department, we could share it in the Tax 15 Office, as long as I stay in the Tax Office. So, I feel like 16 I should stay in the Tax Office, 'cause I help the motor 17 vehicle part out and answer the phone, and I just feel like 18 I'm of value to stay in the Tax Office and not be moved, not 19 take the elections department out of the Tax Office. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: What would that do -- if you 21 stayed there, what would -- could you get by without any new 22 employees? 23 MS. ALFORD: We'd need at least one, I would think, 24 'cause I believe they've moved one employee from the Tax 25 Office into my budget, which is great. But the Tax Office 6-9-14 bwk 97 1 still needs that one employee that they moved out. 2 MS. HARGIS: They have that budgeted now. That's 3 currently in the budget. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That one is? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. That's a chief deputy position, 6 and it's still in there. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So it could stay there? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it's still in there. It's not 9 been removed. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It would be employee-neutral? 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: No new employees, but, you 13 know, not a lower number of employees. Is that what you're 14 saying? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. And so, I mean, I don't 16 know what you want to do. We can go down and let me see what 17 we can do by taking every single department and taking 1,000 18 here and 1,000 there, and see if we can come down. But I 19 don't know if I'm going to find 700, but I'll look. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I'd like the department 21 heads and elected officials to look too. They know better 22 than anybody what they can get rid of, 2 or 3 percent of 23 their budget. And I'd like to see them -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Do it on their own? 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Like to see them cut it where 6-9-14 bwk 98 1 they want it cut before we cut something and then have to 2 deal with it. They're elected. They have a duty to the 3 voters just as we do. So, go find 3, 4 percent where you can 4 cut it. It's not going to be fun, but it's either that, or 5 we'll do it. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I want to go -- yeah, 7 I'm on that same wavelength you are. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Me too. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's where Tom was. So, 10 what does it take, like -- like, to get it -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- down $700,000, and then -- 13 what percentage is that, James? Is that like a 3 or 4 14 percent across the board? 15 MR. ROBLES: We're at 1.572 right now. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 17 MR. ROBLES: But I don't know the percentage. I'd 18 have to -- give me a second. 19 MS. HARGIS: I have to look at it, but I would 20 request that the County Judge put out a memo to all the 21 department heads and request that they cut their budgets by 3 22 percent. It would be easier coming from y'all. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that enough, 3 percent? 24 That's my question. 25 MS. HARGIS: 3 to 5. I think it's going to almost 6-9-14 bwk 99 1 need to be 5. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Why don't we say a number, 3 though? 4 MS. HARGIS: I don't know, Tom. I'd be guessing 5 today. I don't want to guess. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. But I'm just saying -- 7 MS. HARGIS: I don't -- I have no idea. You're 8 asking me off the top of my head to figure out -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I know. But, like, 10 instead of saying 3 to 5, let's just say 3 or 5 or 4 or 11 something. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we let the Auditor go 13 through what we've done today and get -- come up with a 14 number that she recommends. The other thing -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Then I'll tell the Judge what that 18 number needs to be. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing is, the -- 21 we have a two and a half percent increase for employees. I'd 22 love to give that, but if we can't give it, we can't give it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let's find out what 24 the cost-of-living really is. What is the real number out 25 there? 6-9-14 bwk 100 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Probably more than two and a half 2 percent. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends on how you look at it. 4 But we used, last year, the -- whatever that -- 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, we used the federal index -- 6 employee index. We have to use the Texas -- the Dallas -- 7 basically, it was Dallas. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: City of Dallas. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's check and see what the 10 Dallas C.P.I. is for the last 12 months. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you take a peek at 12 that? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. We did look at it, but will 14 again. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And get that to us separate, 16 like in an e-mail or something. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: It's crunch time. We're down to 18 that kind of -- it's got to be done that way, or we're going 19 to have to do it. 20 MS. HARGIS: This is the first year I've never been 21 able to zero the budget. When I brought to it y'all before, 22 I brought it to you with cuts that were obvious and easy to 23 do, but didn't hurt anybody, but this is a tough year. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: It's going to hurt. 25 MS. HARGIS: And we're not sure -- 6-9-14 bwk 101 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Didn't you tell me, Jeannie, that 2 you went back to the 2006 year to apply to this year for 3 budget purposes, because of the -- 4 MS. HARGIS: The sales tax. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: -- the difference between the 6 revenue at that time? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: And here -- and that's kind of the 9 profile we're working on. We've just got less revenue coming 10 in. 11 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS is a huge hit. 13 MS. HARGIS: EMS is a huge hit in one year, 14 300,000. They did that to us a couple years -- well, three 15 years ago; it was a $200,000 hit. But we -- you know, we've 16 tried to get our employees up to where they're -- they're 17 making a wage where we can retain them after we train them, 18 and also, you know, some of the other things that we put in 19 here. But it's just -- the other -- the biggest problem is 20 our fees. Our fees continue to drop. One of my -- one of 21 the J.P. clerks said to me today, "I wish that we were 22 getting some ticket revenue." We're not getting any revenue. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: I'd point out to you, too, this is 24 in a time when the fees in the Clerk's office and all those 25 places have been raised quite a bit, almost double from -- 6-9-14 bwk 102 1 the State authorized them to double the fees, so the fees 2 went up that they're charging for them, and we're still going 3 down in total collections. Which means there's less real 4 estate being sold, less deeds being recorded, all of the 5 things that come through the Clerk's office, the District 6 Clerk's Office. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And D.P.S., they're probably -- 8 their lack of ticket writing on the interstate has probably 9 cost -- what, probably $80,000, $90,000, $100,000? 10 MS. HARGIS: At least. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I had a D.P.S. officer 12 drop in the other day, and I asked him about it; I said, "Why 13 aren't y'all out there working?" And he said, "I just came 14 in. I just got through writing six tickets." He said, 15 "Nothing's decreased with me." And so I don't -- I'm not 16 sure about all that. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, that's probably going to the 18 state and not us. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be going through the 20 J.P.'s office, and it goes through primarily 3 and 4, 'cause 21 they say they're not getting the cases. I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think Mrs. Lantz said 23 something -- insurance? 24 MS. LANTZ: We haven't got our insurance yet. 25 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, we won't get the insurance till 6-9-14 bwk 103 1 July the 1st, so that's another thing. But if we can get 2 this budget to where, you know, we can live with it, then 3 we're going to have to see what we have on the group 4 insurance. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: It's going to be a brutal year. I 6 mean, that's it, period. 7 MS. HARGIS: It's just a tough year, and so, 8 unfortunately -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The tax roll? 10 MS. HARGIS: It's here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the increase? 12 MS. HARGIS: The increase was -- 13 MR. ROBLES: About 7 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 7 percent? 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 7 percent? 16 MS. HARGIS: It went up, but there's a lot of 17 protests out there. You know, it's all out in Precinct 4 18 where I lived, and we know that a lot of those people -- I've 19 had some of my neighbors come to me, and there's a lot of 20 protests, so it's going to be -- and I took $250,000 off of 21 the revenue in anticipation that that was going to come down. 22 So, you know, I was excited when I got the roll, but I will 23 -- I know nobody likes to hear this, and, you know, I'm old 24 too, but -- and I appreciate things. But the -- the lower 25 the value, the higher the tax. The higher the value, the 6-9-14 bwk 104 1 lower the tax. By giving the freeze, we have removed our 2 value situation. Where, you know, over-65 people are paying 3 what they were frozen at, but we have people now that are 4 frozen at the 2006 values. And I ran this again this year; a 5 million, two. Every year we have been losing a million 6 dollars due to the freeze. That's why -- and I think what 7 we're finally doing is -- is because we're not growing with 8 our other fines and fees, we've butted heads with that 9 freeze. Now, what Gillespie County did and we didn't do is 10 that they did the effective rate, which was sometimes maybe 11 .10; now it's, you know, a 010, might have been, but that 12 added up, and it kept their fund balance level. And that's 13 the other thing you need to look at going in with the jail. 14 And if we get into that, I talked to the financial advisers 15 about that, and they have some things they want to share with 16 you. So, when you get into visiting about that, I'd like to 17 have Bob come in and talk to you about the suggestions for 18 not just the capital part of it, but the operating part of 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, what did you say the tax 21 rolls did? I'm sorry, I missed that one. 22 MS. HARGIS: The tax rolls went up 7 percent in the 23 preliminary roll. However, we have logistically lost 24 anywhere from 1 to -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Went up 7 percent. I know 6-9-14 bwk 105 1 there will be some -- 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And one-seventh of that 3 increase, so I guess you'd say 1 percent, was Hunt ISD, the 4 river properties up and down there where there's going to be 5 some significant protests. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I look for an 8 above-average decrease from the review board hearings because 9 of up there on the river. 10 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. Just -- my neighbor who came to 11 me, they agreed to take 47,000 off of his, but it really 12 needs to be closer to 75. I mean, his value is just not 13 right, and a lot of them are going to get that. I mean, it's 14 going to come off. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other question. Did the 16 other -- are the power lines on there? 17 MS. HARGIS: The power lines are on there. The 18 power lines are on there. They were not on last year, and 19 that -- that's where the bulk of it's coming from, is the 20 power lines. And I was excited, 'cause I thought that would 21 help us, but what ate it up was EMS and our new issue. We 22 knew going in that we had to pay this first issue without a 23 tax rate. That's the deal. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: So it's -- you know. 6-9-14 bwk 106 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've had tough years before. 2 We'll get through them. 3 MS. HARGIS: You would give me the toughest year 4 the year I'm going out. Why don't you wait till next year? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In lieu of a present. 6 MS. HARGIS: Thanks a lot. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We try and take care of you. 8 MS. HARGIS: Okay, thank you very much. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this meeting adjourned? 11 JUDGE POLLARD: It is. Thank you. 12 (Budget workshop adjourned at 3:29 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 STATE OF TEXAS | 16 COUNTY OF KERR | 17 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 18 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 19 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 20 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 21 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of July, 2014. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 6-9-14 bwk