1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Workshop 10 Monday, January 26, 2015 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: TOM POLLARD, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 26, 2015 2 PAGE 3 Participate in workshop to discuss: 4 The functions and duties of various departments 3 5 Agreement with the Hill Country District Junior Livestock Association for use of the Hill Country 6 Youth Event Center 37 7 County Park improvements 45 8 Decor at the Hill Country Youth Event Center 72 9 Adjourned 78 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, January 26, 2015, at 1:30 p.m., a workshop 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. It appears that it's 7 1:30 p.m. on Monday, January 26th, 2015. Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court is in session on this date. This is to 9 hold a workshop at 1:30 p.m. on this date in Kerr County 10 Commissioners Courtroom, and this notice was posted pursuant 11 to Texas Open Meetings Act, Title 5, Chapter 551, Government 12 Code, and Title 5, Chapter 552, Government Code. 13 Participation in the workshop to discuss the functions and 14 duties of various departments, agreement with Hill Country 15 District Junior Livestock Association for the use of Hill 16 Country Youth Event Center, the county park improvements, and 17 the decor at Hill Country Youth Event Center. Okay. Let's 18 start off with the first one, the functions and duties of 19 various departments. Who wants to take the lead on that? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just make a statement. 21 I think what lit a candle under this thing was when we 22 started talking about, just as an example, Road and Bridge 23 and Maintenance Department doing functions for the County 24 that's outside of their purview. And, you know, we all agree 25 that it does save money, but is that the proper way to do 1-26-15wk 4 1 things? And I just think that we need to have that 2 discussion, a serious discussion about it. And I'll give you 3 an example. Road and Bridge is an example. They have to 4 scurry about. I mean, I kind of demand of them -- I kind of 5 push them around a little bit, 'cause I want the work in my 6 precinct; I want it done. And, you know, roads -- as I've 7 said many, many times, a good driving road is one of the 8 things that the public demands, and once we start letting 9 those things go downhill, and not -- and not have a good 10 maintenance program, then we get in trouble pretty quick, 11 'cause, they deteriorate real fast. And it seems like 12 sometimes when they're out building an airport, they should 13 be -- I want them building my road, as opposed to the 14 airport. And -- 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, that's the law. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that's kind of what 17 started this thing. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: That's kind of the law. That's the 19 purpose of Road and Bridge, is for roads and bridges, and 20 that's fine to work on special purpose projects like that 21 every now and then, so long as it doesn't interfere with 22 that. But we know that there at least has been one instance 23 of that when Charlie Hastings indicated that they hadn't done 24 something on -- I think it was a bridge out here on Spur 100. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Spur 100. 1-26-15wk 5 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Spur 100 to finish that last summer 2 when they were off working on some other special projects. I 3 think it behooves us to go back to the basics and remind 4 ourselves what these particular departments are there for, 5 and that needs to be given priority. And if it -- working on 6 special projects is fine, but if it delays them in their 7 primary obligation, then we need to take another look at this 8 thing. We need to keep them working on what they're 9 primarily responsible for first. Road and Bridge needs to be 10 working on that, and Maintenance needs to be working on 11 maintenance projects. Special projects, fine, if they have 12 time and can keep up with those other things. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Road and Bridge -- I 14 separate those two a little bit, because I think Road and 15 Bridge is clear on their function, and we say it's road and 16 bridge, but they also have subdivision. That's not road and 17 bridge. We -- we -- I mean, they have -- the County Engineer 18 does a lot, and we expect him to do a lot; that's the reason 19 he was hired, well, even beyond designing roads and bridges. 20 So, I think to say that Road and Bridge Department's 21 responsibility is only roads and bridges is not correct. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, I'm not sure it is either. 23 We need to go back and find out what those responsibilities 24 are. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So I think we need to 1-26-15wk 6 1 define the responsibilities of the departments, and for Road 2 and Bridge, to me, it's roads and bridges, clearly. It's 3 anything that requires County Engineer services, and it's 4 overseeing and supervising our Subdivision Rules and 5 Regulations. Those are the three primary functions that I 6 see. And I don't know that -- I mean, Len's here, Charlie's 7 here, and Kelly's here. There may be something that we're 8 missing on that. But -- 9 MS. HOFFER: Floodplain. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Floodplain. And floodplain. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And picking up dead animals. 12 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that needs to go. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's there right now. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MR. ODOM: It is right now, that's right. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I feel if -- while Road and 17 Bridge is up there, there are certain functions, and I know 18 one of them was -- I think y'all did some work for volunteer 19 fire departments or something, some paving. I think that's 20 permitted under law, that with the volunteer fire 21 departments, we can do. How many, outside Spur 100, Mr. Odom 22 or Mr. Hastings, has these special projects delayed y'all 23 from getting something done? How many times has that 24 happened? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, we have gotten projects done. It 1-26-15wk 7 1 delays -- like Buster says, it delays us from certain things. 2 We can only do so much, and we -- we try to do it. We do it 3 by the direction of the Court. If the Court so directs us 4 that way, that's the way we go. We have the heavy equipment; 5 we have the expertise to do things. So, I don't have a 6 specific answer of what is delayed, but we're behind on some 7 things. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Such as, Leonard? 9 MR. ODOM: Well, such as our maintenance of trying 10 to get caught up. Trying to hit Precinct 1. I've been 11 involved in 2, and basically 4, so I'm trying to balance out. 12 I've always tried to balance out to everybody equally, and so 13 I'm a little bit behind on that. It's not that the world's 14 coming to an end yet. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, ain't nobody saying 16 that. 17 MR. ODOM: But does it delay us and put us back? 18 You have to be creative, and I think we're a creative 19 department, to make it work. And we have the equipment, so 20 -- in most cases, so I -- as long as we continue to move 21 toward completing our sealcoat program. This year, we don't 22 have much, so we're open to do a little bit more. We've got 23 about a mile in each area, and we've got five areas. You 24 have two areas 'cause it's so huge. So, you know, we want to 25 continue that, but maintenance this year, a mile a piece for 1-26-15wk 8 1 seal, and then next year we get into our regular program. 2 So, if we keep that up, we'll be hitting this every 10 to 12 3 years. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think, from my perspective, 5 I think the -- the simplest way to look at it would be Road 6 and Bridge is the title. Yeah, there's a lot of other things 7 under that, and they need to be delineated if they're not. 8 But as far as primary responsibility, as Buster is saying, 9 you know, those things needs to be addressed first. And then 10 the secondary things of airports or -- or exhibit hall 11 foundations and preparations for -- I mean, a lot of time 12 spent out there on all these -- on all these projects. So -- 13 and rightfully so, and we've saved the county a lot of money, 14 and as a matter of fact, we've been able to leverage that 15 work with funds from the State to do things that wouldn't 16 have been -- that wouldn't have given us the funds had that 17 not been done as part of a cooperative effort. So -- but I 18 think to make it very simple, the primary things ought to 19 be -- first things ought to be those which are the primary 20 responsibility. 21 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I -- when I started in 1991, 22 there was three priorities. First was the roads that were 23 sealcoated, to reseal them. Two was to take dirt roads -- or 24 dirt roads and turn them into gravel roads. And, you know -- 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Gravel roads into paved roads. 1-26-15wk 9 1 MR. ODOM: That's right. Well, basically, I got 2 through. When you turned the dirt into gravel, and then -- 3 then you would turn those roads into sealcoated roads, 4 all-weather roads. And 2013, we completed every one of them 5 that we have. And when I started, we had 200 miles, so it 6 was very difficult. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: We have what now, 500 miles? 8 MR. ODOM: We have 500. There was 200 that were 9 dirt. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now there's zero. 11 MR. ODOM: Sir? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now there's zero. 13 MR. ODOM: There's zero. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But you have the other things 15 too, mowing and clearing right-of-ways and all that kind of 16 stuff. 17 MR. ODOM: Mowing and all that. And then 18 complaints too, so we've got to balance that in. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 MR. ODOM: So -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I look at it as, I know 22 we need to be very mindful as a Court of the primary 23 responsibilities in giving special projects this year. In 24 the past couple years, because of the work at the Youth Event 25 Center and work at the airport, which is not going to be 1-26-15wk 10 1 every year for either one of those, they had more special 2 projects than normal. 3 MR. ODOM: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you look historically, it 5 hasn't been that much, and they're little things that we've 6 asked them to do, whether it be blading off a parking lot at 7 Little League or doing something at Turtle Creek Fire 8 Department or whatever. That's acceptable and reasonable. I 9 just think we need to be very careful that we don't 10 overburden them, and we have overburdened them with special 11 projects the last probably 18 months. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. ODOM: So, I -- we'll continue doing what we've 14 been doing and support the Court. And would I prefer to be 15 in maintenance? Of course I would. But -- 16 JUDGE POLLARD: You started off with three things 17 when you started here, three objectives, and now you're up 18 to -- how would you classify them all now? What are they 19 now? 20 MR. ODOM: Now, it's priority one, continue the 21 sealcoating roads with maintenance, with proper seal. That's 22 all we have. I don't have any more dirt roads. And I think 23 the third directive was once you have a gravel road, you turn 24 it into a sealcoated road, and that's what we've done. We've 25 turned everything into a sealcoated road, and now our first 1-26-15wk 11 1 priority is to maintain that through proper maintenance on 2 the thing. So, there's only one priority now. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Well, and Len and I have talked 4 about other priorities, too. We'll get in -- drainage is -- 5 will be our number two priority. We want to keep the roads 6 that we've got sealed now, but now we've got to get into the 7 right-of-way and really get good at clearing it properly and 8 opening up the drainage and opening up visibility. That's 9 something that Len has told me that -- when I -- you know, in 10 the future, that's what we've got to do; really got to focus 11 on that. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: That's part of the roads, isn't it? 13 MR. HASTINGS: A third -- a third now would be 14 getting turn-arounds and cul-de-sacs in some of these areas 15 where we don't have them. Take the right-of-way that we 16 have, see what we can build. If we don't have enough, we may 17 have to do some right-of-way acquisition in order to give 18 people an opportunity to turn around, and have our emergency 19 vehicles have a place to turn around. Those are now the new 20 three priorities. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Now, bridges. In 22 particular, the one out on Spur 100. That's a -- that's a 23 safety issue there, isn't it? 24 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: And I guess that goes without 1-26-15wk 12 1 saying; there are lives at stake over that, and that one's 2 been put off. And -- 3 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: -- that's not good, is it? 5 MR. HASTINGS: It's not good. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 7 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: What else do we need to talk about? 9 I think it also applies to Maintenance some, too. In 10 Maintenance, I think we've been using Maintenance on special 11 projects quite a bit too, and that does cost the taxpayers 12 money. Because, just as an example, this weekend, I 13 understand that a lot of our Maintenance people worked out at 14 the ag show. And that's fine; I want them to, and that's a 15 good project out there, but they're all -- our county 16 employees, many of them, are getting comp time for that. 17 Some got paid by the livestock -- Junior Livestock 18 Association, but some didn't, and some are getting comp time 19 for that, so that's time that's costing the taxpayers, and it 20 just needs to be taken into account. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that issue is -- to me, 22 number one with Maintenance is to -- you know, I think this 23 Court needs to define what we want Maintenance to do, 24 especially with the new facilities that we have. Is it 25 maintenance, or is it -- and does maintenance include light 1-26-15wk 13 1 construction/remodeling? To me, the answer to that is yes. 2 If we -- they can, you know, add in -- 3 JUDGE POLLARD: I think it does, too. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like, add a bathroom at some 5 point out in the -- or in the indoor arena. I mean, we've 6 talked about doing that. We don't have the money for it, but 7 something like that is maintenance. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: I understand this all fits into our 9 program that we're about to work on, too, to try to raise 10 some money to -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: -- get a maintenance situation out 13 there, maybe a maintenance crew out there for it. But this 14 just proves that we need to move on that program. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, to me -- see, to 16 me, I personally feel that maintenance should not include 17 set-up and take-down of that facility all the time. And 18 that's nothing to do with stock show. I'm talking about when 19 we have events and banquets; I don't think it's a maintenance 20 function to put tables and chairs up. Maintenance is to 21 clean the place. And I think that we need to look at that 22 down the road as to figuring out how to contract that, -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the set-up portion and 25 take-down portion out to a different entity, 'cause I don't 1-26-15wk 14 1 think that's a maintenance function. And we can't -- we 2 don't have enough money to staff our Maintenance Department 3 to do that job. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And especially if we get into 5 River Star Event things out there; that just adds to it. 6 That's absolutely positive. I agree with you 100 percent, 7 Jonathan. That -- that needs to be looked at as not a 8 maintenance function, and there's a way to do it -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- properly. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for whether it be stock 12 show or fair or -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- all these things. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a -- you know, we need to 17 -- and I don't know how -- the best way to do it. Hopefully 18 we'll get some guidance from some professionals in that area 19 as to how we -- 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, we're in a state of flux, 21 change right now due to the new event center out there, and 22 we're trying to develop some programs like that, but I think 23 we just need to move forward with that and try to get those 24 resolved and get some clear lines so there's a clear line of 25 understanding what the priorities are with Maintenance and 1-26-15wk 15 1 that sort of thing. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Tim, how many hours did your 3 department have this past week? 4 MR. BOLLIER: I think one had -- I think O.T., 5 probably around -- it wasn't a whole lot. I think they only 6 had, like, 12. One had 8; I think there was a total of maybe 7 10 or 12 hours of overtime. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And that because of the way 9 you -- 10 MR. BOLLIER: We scheduled it. 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- you scheduled them with 12 shift work to try to -- 13 MR. BOLLIER: We had it pretty well under control. 14 We knew there was going to be some; there's no way out of it. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think I totaled up -- you 16 gave me the hours for the other ones. That was about 70 17 hours of labor that the stock show paid for, or will pay for. 18 Haven't got the check yet, but that they'll pay to them. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: I think that's great. That's the 20 way it needs to be. 21 MR. BOLLIER: The only thing -- the only thing that 22 worries me right now, I'm sure the Court is -- knows this, 23 but as of right now, we're doing all the set-ups out there. 24 And in two weeks, we have an event out there, and then from 25 there on, we have events every weekend. Two people out there 1-26-15wk 16 1 can't do that to keep everything clean, keep all those 2 bathrooms clean. And here I am, I'm trying to do maintenance 3 and all of that, and I can't take my custodians away from 4 here. So, it's -- you know, I'll do whatever the Court tells 5 me to do; I always have. But my question is, do you want me 6 to do maintenance, or do you want me to do set-ups? Because 7 before long, that's all we're going to be doing, because -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or custodial work. I think 9 that's three separate issues. 10 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, and I don't have the people to 11 do all that. That place is not going to be clean the way I 12 want it clean, not with the help -- not with the people that 13 I have. I'm going to have to have either more staffing, or 14 we're going to have to hire some contractor to come out there 15 and clean it. That's the way I see it, because there's no 16 way -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we hire 18 contractors to clean. I think we have hired contractors to 19 do the set-up. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think you also have to 21 look at -- you can talk to any of the judges, myself, or 22 anybody else. Custodial work is not a maintenance issue, 23 okay? And the custodial work and the administrative offices 24 around this courthouse, and the administrative offices at my 25 facility -- and I have inmates that do the cleaning and all 1-26-15wk 17 1 that in the cells, but under the -- around the administrative 2 offices, you don't have inmates running in people's offices 3 where they could have access to things they shouldn't have. 4 But the custodial work, me, as a department head, is one 5 thing that I've seen suffer drastically in this county over 6 the last year and a half, and I think every judge and every 7 department head will agree with me that these buildings and, 8 you know, restrooms are not being cleaned like they should be 9 cleaned, and it's 'cause they don't have the manpower to 10 clean them. You know, I'll stand up and say there's got to 11 be a separate custodial division or something. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Or they're spending more time on 13 other special projects or something. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure, doing it on maintenance 15 projects. You've got a lot of buildings, you know, with the 16 county, and there's a lot of maintenance on these older 17 buildings that has to be done. And even on new buildings, 18 there are things that have to be learned. You got a whole 19 computerized air-conditioner system that takes a rocket 20 scientist, Commissioner Moser, to be able to figure out how 21 to operate it. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think -- I think -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's just a lot of that 24 that I think the County does need to look at. Look at the 25 work that's had to be done to this building in this last 1-26-15wk 18 1 year, with the water main break upstairs and what it flooded 2 and that. I was up there just last week, and there's a wall 3 that, during the rain, was leaking water coming in upstairs 4 again, okay, through that wall. You can look at the wall 5 behind Buster over there. There's a lot of things that need 6 a lot of attention for maintenance, and then separation for 7 custodial. And that is one department. How many do you have 8 total? Total employees? 9 MR. BOLLIER: Ten, counting myself. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ten total. 11 MR. BOLLIER: One is out right now, so I only have 12 nine. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's been out for about 12 14 weeks. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I only have nine people. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, Tim, that's for all 17 maintenance, and that jail has a lot of maintenance issues. 18 I don't mean -- you know, I got 26, 28 air-conditioner units 19 up on top of that thing. You know, you got room -- all this 20 stuff has to have filters changed, all that kind of stuff, 21 constantly, okay? And you're trying take care of not just 22 the jail, the Sheriff's office, our annex out there, this 23 courthouse. You got an Ingram annex, you got the -- all the 24 different buildings at the Ag Barn, with added River Star 25 Park, and I'll be the first one to tell y'all, even with the 1-26-15wk 19 1 way I kind of run a department, there is no way that you can 2 do daily cleaning, daily custodial work and maintenance on 3 that many buildings, and do it effectively with the number of 4 personnel he's got. Can't be done. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think the whole subject that 6 you're talking about is -- is worthy probably of another 7 workshop or something to look at this comprehensively. 8 Because as we take on additional facilities, be it at the 9 airport, and that's covered in one way, the Event Center, the 10 Ag Barn, all the other things that are talked about, those 11 are -- we don't put that in the cost of things. We put -- we 12 look at the cost of developing things, but not of maintaining 13 them and providing the -- the janitorial service, custodial 14 services. Those are big. Quite often they're overlooked at 15 that time. There is -- let me do a little example. 16 There's -- I know somebody that did it at one of the large 17 churches here. They looked at everything in the church, 18 every square foot of paint, every commode, how old it was, 19 faucets, and laid out an entire program for maintenance and 20 custodial work. And they had it, you know, on a computer 21 where they can look at it, but they can account for it, so 22 they go into it, you know, with full visibility as they start 23 into the thing, or they start into an addition, what that 24 additional burden is going to be. I don't think we do that 25 very well. We need to increase that so that Tim has the 1-26-15wk 20 1 proper staff to do it in our facilities, and as they get 2 older. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've looked at a lot of 4 things, and this Court's doing well with us looking at a jail 5 bond expansion, okay. The one thing we're not only looking 6 at in there is the cost of the expansion, but the Court has 7 adequately also looked at, okay, what is the cost of 8 maintenance? What's it going to cost us a year in more 9 manpower and more issues to run that expansion, okay? We've 10 expanded the Ag Barn several times in the last few years. 11 We've expanded my office, being the annex building add-on 12 over there, and you've expanded a lot of different things. 13 Animal Control's expanded, you know, Juvenile Detention. 14 But -- so we've spent millions doing that, but nobody has 15 ever looked at the cost of maintenance. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's my whole point. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, exactly. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's where we've got to look 19 at we've fallen behind. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, so we recognize there's a 21 problem, and we probably need to do something about it, so 22 what can we do about it? Anybody got suggestions? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have to look at the 24 breakdown. I look -- the other thing we didn't want to 25 mention is parks, and that's not maintenance and that's not 1-26-15wk 21 1 custodial. It's a different function. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we need to really, 4 prior to budget, in another workshop, probably just focus on 5 this and look at the personnel goal needed for all these 6 functions, and then let's first figure out what we need, and 7 then figure out how we get there. And I still think that the 8 -- the easiest one to split out, which I think is real -- 9 quantity of manpower intensive is the set-up at the Event 10 Center. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. And I -- that's the 12 potential you're saying we can maybe outsource, out -- 13 contract that out. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And pass that on to who's using 15 the facility. 16 MR. ODOM: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We don't need any action here, 18 but I'll try and find the person or the group that put 19 together this sort of comprehensive maintenance and 20 janitorial program so you can account for everything rather 21 than just react. I'll see if that might be available, or if 22 there's some way that we and Tim -- we, the Court, and Tim 23 might use something like that to help scope what's required 24 to do this stuff. And that's the things Rusty's talking 25 about. 1-26-15wk 22 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you can do that. I 2 think one thing you ought to look at, Jonathan -- I hate to 3 say this, but even look at how the City does a lot of the -- 4 the parks and recreation. They have a separate division that 5 takes care of their parks and recreation. You go to rent a 6 park for, you know, private use with the City or anything, 7 such as the Ag Barn, you pay them a fee. That department 8 takes care of that set-up. It's a whole separate deal, 9 totally separated from custodial and maintenance. They don't 10 come -- they don't maintain the buildings, okay? But they 11 make sure everything's set up right, and on the parks, they 12 do maintain them. It's parks and recreation. Whether it's 13 the trimming, killing weeds, or doing, you know, whatever 14 needs to be done at all the parks, and whatever needs to be 15 done at the buildings, it's a separate division. And this 16 County's been able to get by all these years with just a 17 Maintenance Department that's done all those things, but I 18 think we're at the point that we've outgrown that ability. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: I agree with all this. All right. 20 So, are we going to make a plan to try to have -- set up 21 another workshop in order to try to study this? Do you want 22 to -- do you think you can get something done by -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think I can -- let me 24 look at seeing if this -- this process is available to us, 25 and what -- let me do a little bit more homework on that 1-26-15wk 23 1 before we call for a workshop on it, if I might. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Anybody else want to make inquires 3 into what can be -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll work with Tim a little bit 5 about trying to figure out personnel quantity or numbers that 6 he needs to do various functions. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I think this thing that 8 I'm talking about would have to do that, too. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: And explore what we're talking 12 about. If we extend it till March the 6th, that might affect 13 some of this, too, having moneys available, so all of this 14 has got to dovetail into one thing. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, I might look at this, 16 too, that Kelly just handed us on Road and Bridge special 17 projects, completed and proposed. See, we don't have 18 anything on there proposed for the new jail, and that's 19 probably going to be -- that's a potential. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a -- if y'all go along 21 with what's been done on site work, that will be more major 22 site work than what was ever even imagined being done at the 23 Ag Barn and that because of the way they built the current 24 jail. They shoved all the dirt and everything -- they moved 25 out from where the current jail is, they put it behind where 1-26-15wk 24 1 the expansion would have to go, so when the expansion gets 2 ready to be added onto, there's about 12 to 15 feet in 3 thickness of dirt that's going to have to be removed from 4 where all the expansion's going to go. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- that -- I mean, we have 6 to look at it. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be an add-alternate, 9 but I think it probably -- a project like that would be 10 better to include it in the budget of the project. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Probably should. We ought to 12 look at it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you can do it as an 14 add-alternate. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Precisely. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And see. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think we ought to 18 take a swing at trying to define the duties of these offices? 19 JUDGE POLLARD: I think so, too. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example, Road and 21 Bridge. You know, are we going to ask them -- I'm just using 22 an example here. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To build pads at the 25 airport, or foundations for Ag Barns and et cetera? And at 1-26-15wk 25 1 what stage do we -- do we say, "Yes, you can go do that," or, 2 "No, you can't go do that"? Or what level of project would 3 it take to say yes, that they need to help -- you know, I 4 mean, we need to take a swing at that, and I don't know how. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think one way would be -- I 6 think it's a good point. One way to do it is if we identify 7 something like that, ask Len and his crew, "What aren't you 8 going to do if you do that?" 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the best way to do it 10 is -- is ask Len and the new engineer, -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- "Are you going to do this 13 or not?" 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if they say no, it's 16 over. That's the best way to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But sometimes they get 19 caught up in between. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: I would like to see them all put 21 something down in writing about what they think they should 22 be doing, and I guess for Maintenance, too. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Priorities. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, priorities, and what you think 25 your functions are, and prioritize them. 1-26-15wk 26 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you can 2 prioritize them. I don't see how you can prioritize a 3 subdivision over a road. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: They would be an equal priority. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, you know, there 6 is functions -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Those would -- because that would 8 be a primary function. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Floodplain. I mean, all their 10 primary functions are, you know -- 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: All are vital to -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, they're all primary. 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Interrelated, floodplain to 14 subdivision to road maintenance. They could interrelate, 15 just like a lot of stuff that Tim's doing now. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think you're creating 17 a new wheel. I think one thing you can do is look at Texas 18 Association of Counties' website and that, and they have 19 already done that with most different types of county 20 departments, set out what their general functions are. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: That's a good thought. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of each department. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would give you a good 24 blueprint to start looking at and go forward. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: It's not going to get any better 1-26-15wk 27 1 unless we do something about organizing our thoughts on it 2 and what has to be done. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- you know, I 4 think maintenance is a lot harder. I think it's a -- you 5 know, they're being asked to do a lot. And to me, Road and 6 Bridge is pretty simple; we need to look at those 7 case-by-case. When there's special projects coming up, we 8 have to look at it, have an honest conversation with Road and 9 Bridge, "What's this going to defer?" Because you're not 10 getting more people for it. And make a decision on the 11 cost-benefit analysis. Like the -- the drainage at the 12 airport -- Tom, correct me -- it was like 180,000 to do this 13 drainage project, and y'all did it for almost nothing. And, 14 you know, so that was a -- the benefit was huge. When we 15 look at the Sheriff's annex and one of those smaller ones, 16 you know, the gain there probably was not as great. It 17 probably would have cost maybe another 50,000. I don't 18 remember what the amount was. It was not that much of a huge 19 savings to have Road and Bridge do it versus -- you know, so 20 I think it's a cost-benefit analysis that we have to make. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: On a case-by-case -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Case by case for those type 23 projects. Now, what Maintenance is being asked to do is a 24 little bit different to me, because they're asked -- they're 25 being asked to do a lot of things, and we need to figure out 1-26-15wk 28 1 how either to pass those costs on as to the set-up type 2 costs, and then possibly look at reorganizing as we add more 3 responsibilities in parks, more responsibilities in 4 maintenance, and more in custodial. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yeah. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Growth problems. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Tim has asked for personnel 8 in the past and we have said no. 9 MR. BOLLIER: I have a question. I have several 10 questions here. There's a lot of things that the Maintenance 11 Department does that we've always done, you know, like 12 deliver paper, take certain personnel's stuff -- supplies to 13 Ingram, which I have cut out. I told them I won't do it any 14 more, because I don't see that that's my job. But like now, 15 we have paper delivery stuff. So, you know, it's like you 16 were saying a while ago; I have somebody that sends me a work 17 order for a paper delivery, and I have another work order 18 that I'm supposed to go fix a leaky faucet. How -- and this 19 person's out of paper. Which one are you going to 20 prioritize? Which one are you going to put first? You see 21 where I'm at? 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. That's where I'm at with it. 24 And then the other thing is on the Ag Barn. When I was 25 talking to -- to Steve Huser, he was indicating to me that a 1-26-15wk 29 1 lot of these big places, that when they rent a facility out, 2 they make them pay for the cleaning. They have a cleaning 3 crew that comes in and cleans, and that is part of their fee 4 when they pay for it, so that cleaning crew can come in, and 5 it's already paid for and it cleans everything. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: That's a way to pass it on, too. 7 MR. BOLLIER: And pass it on through like that. 8 They say that it works very well. Now, I don't know what 9 that price is. Do you remember? 10 MS. GRINSTEAD: I don't remember. 11 MR. BOLLIER: I don't remember what he said, but it 12 wasn't a whole lot of money. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, yeah, those are the type 14 of things I think we need to look at doing, and that facility 15 lends itself the most to pass those costs on, because the 16 cost comes with the events. And that -- if we could free 17 that up, I think it would solve a lot of the maintenance 18 problems. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Do we have a plan as to 20 what we need to do? We need to set a -- do we need to set 21 another meeting, say, six weeks off or a month off or 22 something? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pre-budget. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pre-budget. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Pre-budget. 1-26-15wk 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which would be April? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six weeks off. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six weeks off. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think the Sheriff has a 6 vital point. Instead of reinventing the wheel -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: I think that's a great idea. I'll 8 bet you they have addressed that issue. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but before the Sheriff 10 stands up and starts talking again, I've got to go. Eight 11 hours of this is enough. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Enough today already, huh, 13 Buster? 14 MR. BOLLIER: Now, the other thing is, I've tried 15 and tried to get the -- to pre-maintain the thing. With as 16 few people as I have, there's no way I can pre-maintain 17 anything. I can't; I don't have the time to do all that. If 18 we had somebody to go back and where I could have somebody on 19 a -- every couple weeks, go and check air-conditioners for 20 loose belts, for this, for that, you know, it could sure cut 21 down on some expense, I honestly believe. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Preventive. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Preventive maintenance. It would 24 prevent -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Crisis management is a bad 1-26-15wk 31 1 place to be. 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, Leonard? 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. May I ask the Court what they 5 contemplate special projects for our department this budget 6 year? No fire station? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No fire station. 8 MR. ODOM: No fire station. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be blading off the 10 parking lot at Little League. That's probably something 11 that's in pretty good shape right now, so may not even need 12 it. You know, that kind of thing. Depending on the polo 13 field, may need to have a roller go across it a little bit, 14 but, you know, I mean, pretty minor things. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I'll take care of the polo field. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With the jail expansion, even 17 if that does pass, I don't envision any of that happening 18 before next year sometime as to any ground work. So, not -- 19 MR. ODOM: Do you have an estimate of how many 20 yards to be removed? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no -- the architects 22 haven't even gotten to all that part yet. Have to get across 23 the May election yet. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sometime early 2016. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, at the earliest. 1-26-15wk 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the airport, I don't see 2 anything this year going on. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing this year that I know 4 of. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Are there any capital projects 6 planned out at the airport any time next year? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's some pending, but not 10 this year. I mean, some in discussion stage, but not -- not 11 this year. 12 MR. ODOM: Do you have a site in mind that needs to 13 be leveled out or something? Early on? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 15 MR. ODOM: No? 16 JUDGE POLLARD: We don't know what's going to 17 happen with the City working out on their soccer fields and 18 all that. Could turn into something; you never can tell. 19 Just depends on -- it could involve the County on our county 20 property over there where the baseball fields are. Who 21 knows? But we can't foresee that yet, anything like that. 22 All right, I think we've talked that one out pretty good. 23 We've got a plan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only one, Leonard, I can see 25 there, and the Court hasn't looked at it other than cursory, 1-26-15wk 33 1 is in Flat Rock, doing some rearranging. There's portions of 2 that park kind of -- I guess you'd call them on the eastern 3 edge where it's just kind of all torn up like someone dug 4 topsoil at one point. There's -- I don't know what you call 5 that area up there. 6 MR. ODOM: On the loop, you're talking about? 7 Around the loop? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, probably almost right 9 across from the polo fields. There's an area there that we 10 looked at maybe-improving that, whatever that means. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: What about parking somewhere? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And parking. And parking and 13 improving that for parking. 14 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- you know, nothing's 16 been planned, but that's a -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That thing has a question. We 18 don't have anything planned. 19 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I just looked at that, wondering, 20 to get back with you about a little bit of money for some 21 material to do it, maybe fence it off. I think part of 22 that's not the citizens; I think it's young people in 23 four-wheelers is the problem, so I think we could fix part of 24 it right there. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Was the parking problem out there 1-26-15wk 34 1 around the Ag Barn, the show, was that due to the weather -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: -- primarily? 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Mud. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: The mud. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The polo field wasn't hardly 7 used, because people were scared to go in there. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Too muddy to go out there. So you 9 don't think we need to do anything about parking? Just take 10 our chances with the weather? 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, this -- this weather -- 12 and maybe Mr. Bauer can answer. This was just a unique set 13 of events where the rain came, the snow came, -- 14 MR. ODOM: Snow. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- the cold. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If you look at the last 20 17 years, that probably hasn't occurred that often. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Steve and I talked. The 19 only -- within the last 20 years, I think there was an ice 20 storm about seven or eight years ago, but that was on one of 21 the days when it wasn't heavily -- with people and equipment, 22 trucks and stuff. And by the time the -- the busiest part of 23 the show rolled around, it was fine. This year, the front 24 end was fine, and then the rains hit Thursday morning, some 25 Wednesday night, and it was one of those rains that was like 1-26-15wk 35 1 we like, a good slow rain, and all day, but it was one of 2 those things that just couldn't be avoided. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, statistically, probably 4 not. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, for safety and traffic 6 issues out there, especially during stock snow and other 7 events during the time, I know it was talked about one time 8 last year, and I think the County really needs to look at, 9 since -- 10 JUDGE POLLARD: I do too. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- you own 90 percent of that 12 road all the way through River Star, is closing Riverside 13 Drive up to a certain point that it doesn't affect those 14 couple of houses there -- 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Permanently. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- on the east end, closing it 17 permanently, and redesigning a lot of that into better 18 parking, and get them off of Highway 27 and get them on that 19 back side. That's what I think. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: We are also going to get 21 bigger events out there now with the building and all that, 22 and we're going to have a lot more people coming in that need 23 a lot of parking, and that increases the probabilities of 24 these weather -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of the worst issues we 1-26-15wk 36 1 had -- true, it was muddy, so they're going to find another 2 place to park. Well, a lot of that other place to park was 3 over around the softball fields and all that, so now we had 4 all those kids and people cutting across Highway 27, going to 5 the show, which I think is extremely dangerous. Where if we 6 fix the other side, which the County owns, they can fix that 7 and -- and funnel all that traffic around that back side to 8 where we don't have them coming out towards Highway 27. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter Lewis has a drawing that 10 he did of -- of a new layout of Riverside, closing Riverside, 11 and then some upgrades and how you would do parking, add more 12 parking in the park, in Flat Rock. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: So there may be a special project 14 on the horizon. 15 MR. ODOM: Okay. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Can't say. 17 MR. ODOM: I would say that mud that we have over 18 there, just throw it out. I'm not blaming Tim, but I think 19 the mixture of sawdust and straw and everything else has made 20 that so humous that water just penetrated. I mean, it went 21 straight through and turned to a liquid. You've got real 22 fine material, and you've got a low liquid material that it 23 just turned to mush. It doesn't take much. With that 24 sawdust and straw and everything else that's been mixed in 25 it, I'm -- we're going to blade that over there and see if we 1-26-15wk 37 1 have hardpan. If we have hardpan, then we might be able to 2 do a little bit with it, but that one's going to be 3 continuous as long as you mix sawdust and all in there. It's 4 just -- it's just humous. It's just -- you can make a nice 5 big garden, Sheriff. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of the polo field, I don't 7 think there should be any plan to pave that. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, no. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A good part of that needs to 10 stay dirt. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Monster truck mud races or 12 something. 13 MR. ODOM: Oh my goodness. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: This second one is agreement with 16 Hill Country District Junior Livestock Association for the 17 use of the Hill Country Youth Event Center. Who wants to 18 tackle that one? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, as an example, the -- 20 I haven't looked at this in a good while, but somewhere in 21 here it talks about some of the same things that we talked 22 about with Tim, the set-ups and the tear-downs. I'm sorry, I 23 don't know where it is, but like cleaning up after the stock 24 show, that it will be -- I remember the words "broom-swept" 25 or something like that. Isn't that what it said? Nobody's 1-26-15wk 38 1 ready to talk about this, Judge, but me, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I'm trying to 3 find the language. I looked through it, and didn't -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's old Bob Reeves' 5 name. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's what I'm trying to 7 see, where the "broom-swept" is, Commissioner. I'm not 8 saying it's not in here, but -- but what it means basically 9 is that you return it the way it was when you got it. I 10 don't know where the "broom-swept" is. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it will be the first 12 time, but I could be wrong. That doesn't happen very often. 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: What? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That I -- that I didn't -- 15 that I saw that. Where did I see that? Well, maybe not. 16 But what I understand is, you know, you guys kind of work 17 through that. You know, as opposed to Tim's Maintenance 18 Department going out and setting up all the pens and setting 19 up all those kind of things, everybody pitched in this year, 20 and -- 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yes. Steve can attest to how 22 many hours, and I think it was probably even more this year 23 than in the past, but there's always been groups that have 24 come out to help set up. It was -- he said Mini-Mart sends 25 their maintenance staff out to set it up, and I think it 1-26-15wk 39 1 probably was a bigger number this year. 2 MR. BAUER: It was a bigger number. I think the 3 report that I gave the Court, we had 140 volunteer hours at 4 that time, and that was prior to the set-up of the multi-use 5 center in the back there, and that's been Mini-Mart and 6 several -- and they had that thing set up in a day, 7 basically. There were some odds and ends that a few of them 8 tackled, but it was done in a day. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And the stock show tries to 10 rent equipment; i.e., forklifts and everything to run on that 11 concrete, 'cause it's -- 12 MR. BAUER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- it's a lot easier to move 14 them around. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I know where 16 Commissioner Baldwin's going, and I agree that the use of 17 this -- and the stock show, certainly, this year, 'cause I 18 spent more time out there this year, had volunteers to work, 19 but we have two other big events that are kind of -- the 20 KerrFest and the county fair, that are in that same category, 21 these organizations that we don't charge any fee for. And 22 stock show is different, because they've put a million 23 dollars into the facility as well. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No kidding. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whereas these other 1-26-15wk 40 1 organizations have not. But I think that we need to be very 2 careful that -- you know, we're very -- we tend to be quick 3 when asked to let these other big events use our Maintenance 4 Department, and I think that we need -- we need to learn to 5 say no; that, you know, you're going to have to pay, you 6 know. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Either that, or set-up fees and 8 clean-up fees charged separately that you can pass on, or 9 some arrangement, you know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There's got to be some 11 way that it cannot be our Maintenance Department's job to do 12 the set-up and take-down for those big events. That's just 13 how we get around that. There's several different ways. 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Page 3, Number 6 15 Commissioner. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 3? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here it is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Broom clean," right there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I find those to be strange 20 -- two strange words, "broom clean." How clean is that? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That means you don't mop it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may be. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what it means. Typical 24 in property management, even a house. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I never heard those 1-26-15wk 41 1 words before. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Realtors know that. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's why I knew it. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: I don't think there are any changes 5 we need in this lease agreement. It covers it. It's just 6 that we got to live up to it. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, that's my 10 question. Now, are we -- are we going to live up to this, or 11 do we need to change it? But it sounds like to me that we're 12 doing -- doing okay this year. You know, I've heard horror 13 stories in the past, but this year everybody pitched in and 14 got it done. I don't know about broom. I don't know. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a big building to broom. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Brooms don't work too good on mud. 17 (Laughter.) Okay. Well, we want to resolve to kind of leave 18 this agreement alone, and then just resolve ourselves to try 19 to live up to it? Or do we need changes, and recognize that 20 we're going to do it differently, or what are we going to do? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing I would 22 mention, you were talking about fees and set-up fees, and 23 you're talking about his department, I agree. Doesn't matter 24 what kind of fees you charge if you're still going to rely on 25 his department to do it, because that's where -- I, for one, 1-26-15wk 42 1 will tell you every one of our offices suffered severely over 2 the last two or three weeks, trying to keep our offices 3 clean, because all the maintenance was out at the Ag Barn 4 getting ready for the stock show, okay? There's not enough 5 personnel. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah, but if you charge fees for 7 it, maybe we can hire some other people, add additional 8 personnel to do that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be a solution. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But don't charge fees 12 and expect the same people to do it, 'cause there just aren't 13 enough people there. There's not enough bodies. 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Probably have to hire some more 15 people. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The County's going to suffer. 17 MR. BAUER: Whether it's the fair or any big event 18 that you go pull off. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And part of the reason for the 21 problem is that we used to rely heavily -- more heavily on 22 the trustees and Adult Probation, and Adult Probation doesn't 23 seem to hardly exist any more from providing workers. There 24 used to be -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: Did you notice how many you had out 1-26-15wk 43 1 there during the whole week of the stock show? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no idea. 3 MR. BOLLIER: There was a total of three, and never 4 more than one each day. That way -- wait, that's a lie; I 5 had two girls one day. I had no more, and there was only 6 three that showed up, and there was -- what day was it? 7 Wednesday, none of them showed up. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the difference is, when 9 I -- you know, I'd say -- 10 MR. BOLLIER: That's the same way during the week. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the early 2000 period, there 12 was -- it was not uncommon to have 10 or 12. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: But they had a supervisor with 14 them, too. 15 MR. BOLLIER: No. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community service. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Community service supervisor. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: These guys just come in and do one, 21 two or three; they're not really helping. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm saying -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Community service supervisor 24 taking them around, that needs to be reorganized severely in 25 this county. I think their prior one left or whatever; it 1-26-15wk 44 1 kind of went defunct. That doesn't have anything to do with 2 my department, but it is a -- a function of Adult Probation. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: I know. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And there needs to be that, 5 but there has to be a supervisor supervising those. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It used to be a great program, 7 and it just doesn't exist any more. 8 MR. BOLLIER: I do want to say one thing before we 9 go any further. I want to say thank you to Rusty, because 10 without B.J. -- without B.J., things don't get done without 11 B.J. and the boys. I'm going to tell you, they do a lot. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think we need to do 13 anything with this till we figure out what we do long-term, 14 and then maybe we need to make a change here. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: My suggestion. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Steve, do you have anything? 18 MR. BAUER: No. I mean, we appreciate -- and we 19 understand, and that's why we worked with Tim, and we pay our 20 part on the maintenance and the custodial, and gave those 21 folks, you know, an opportunity to work some extra hours. I 22 know that there's a lot of folks out there like that, and are 23 willing to do that when all that's done out there, the 24 volunteers. We're going back out, several of us, this 25 afternoon again and working on taking it back down. 1-26-15wk 45 1 JUDGE POLLARD: And y'all are to be commended for 2 that, really. That association has always been really good 3 at that, and that's something -- you know, you're amazing 4 folks. We really appreciate you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: You really distribute to youth of 7 Kerr County; there's no question, and support them. All 8 right, let's move on to the County Park improvements. This 9 -- we got some people that want to talk on this, huh? All 10 right. Is there a Tom Collins here? Yes, sir? 11 MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Judge, commissioners. I'm 12 Thomas Collins. I live at 261 Red Bird Loop in Center Point. 13 Before I jump right into my quick notes here, I just wanted 14 to follow up with what the Sheriff here said, was that I 15 think this county could use a parks and recreation function. 16 Doesn't necessarily have to be a -- a separate department, 17 but you need to really consider that as a functional aspect 18 of the county as you grow, especially as you add any parks, 19 and we keep improving them. The other comment I would make 20 was, with multi-million dollar projects at Dow Chemical over 21 the years, any time you did a project, you had the cost to 22 build, and on the other side you had the cost to operate, and 23 we also had to develop a five-year operating cost for any 24 project that we did. And it sounds like to me that maybe 25 some of these things have slipped by, and that's why we end 1-26-15wk 46 1 up with folks over here doing things that wasn't planned in 2 the project, because it wasn't built into the project. So I 3 think you, as a group, any time you propose any project, need 4 to build as a minimum a five-year operating cost so you know 5 what it's going to cost you to manage and keep it running. I 6 came here also to thank the Commissioners and the Judge for 7 supporting this little project we got going out at the Lions 8 Park in Center Point. Special thanks to Tim and to Charlie 9 here, for their folks helping to put in our park benches, and 10 to Commissioner Moser also for supporting me putting up some 11 additional park -- park -- not park benches, but -- 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Facilities. 13 MR. COLLINS: Well, they were the -- the park -- 14 the things -- not benches. Tables. Had to come up with the 15 right word there. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Tables. 17 MR. COLLINS: Getting too old. Anyway, for putting 18 in the park tables and barbecue stands, with permanent trash 19 facilities now. We brought in a lot of big boulders, and 20 they moved boulders to build us a nice green space, so we 21 keep people from driving all over the volleyball -- I mean, 22 over the basketball court. Still looking for my basketball 23 rims. Somewhere down the road here, we can deal -- get those 24 back up there, 'cause that was the thing that got me started 25 in this. And we need to still look at that boat ramp there. 1-26-15wk 47 1 It's a dangerous facility. If you start to walk out on it, 2 it's slippery; you can fall. And if you start to launch a 3 boat there, that's a 28-inch drop-off at the end of it there, 4 anybody that launches a boat there. I proposed before that 5 as a minimum, maybe we close the front of it to keep people 6 from putting boats there, but some way to close it. I think 7 Charlie had a good suggestion, that eventually that boat ramp 8 probably ought to be torn out, and then dug back much further 9 and make it a gravel, and not a -- not a concrete ramp. 10 And -- but that's something down the road there. 11 Phase 2 of this project that I proposed to y'all 12 when I was here was to put in a volleyball court and a couple 13 of horseshoe pits in there. The volleyball court I costed 14 out around 5,000, and a couple volleyball -- I mean horseshoe 15 pits, around a couple thousand. We've got a lot of brush 16 that needs to be cleared. A lot of that park extends off to 17 the north or up river and is available, but it's never been 18 cleared out. And I think even myself would be willing to go 19 over there, and with my chain saw and start clearing the 20 stuff out, but you always end up with the issue of the 21 disposal of that stuff, so I need to talk with the folks here 22 about how we might clear it. The dirt that we -- we pull out 23 of the -- out of the volleyball court would be used to build 24 a berm near the entrance that we put a native plant garden 25 there. We've got garden groups here, I think, represented by 1-26-15wk 48 1 Center Point native garden group, but I'm a member of the 2 Texas Master Gardeners also, and that's a project that's 3 already been laid out there. So, once we get that dirt 4 there, we're going to try to build a nice entry there and put 5 some sort of sign saying this is Lions Park, but a good 6 garden that would be maintained by the Master Gardeners. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Is it still Lions Park? 8 MR. COLLINS: Yes, sir, it still is, but nobody 9 seems to really know how it ever got that name, as much 10 history as I've dug into. So, I'm -- I'd be willing to 11 approach the Lion's Club and see if they'd be willing to help 12 contribute some -- some funds there, if -- if that would help 13 also. And the third -- 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Do you know? 15 MS. BUTTERS: Yes, I know. The Lion's Club 16 Association owned that park and maintained it when I first 17 moved here to Center Point, and it got too big for the 18 organization, so they gave it to the County, and the extra 19 land with it. So, the County didn't have to pay for that, 20 and there were some improvements, but not a whole lot. But 21 we do have a garden club there that has put in gardens at the 22 cemetery, at the school. They're working on the post office 23 right now, so there are ways to work with it. But we are 24 interested in it. That park is used for a lot of different 25 things. The churches use it for baptism. Two Sundays ago, 1-26-15wk 49 1 when it was icy, there was a baptism in the river. So, it is 2 not just a summer project. We use it all year. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, that's not a Lion's Club park 4 any more, is it? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When the park was given -- the 6 land was given to the County, was there a stipulation that it 7 be named Lion's Club -- Lions Park? Or was it just -- 8 MS. BUTTERS: I don't know. You'd have to -- I'm 9 not in the Lion's Club now. I can try to find out for you. 10 MS. BAILEY: We'd have to look at the deed. If 11 it's not in the deed, then it's not a requirement. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's not a biggie. 13 MS. BUTTERS: That was just because it was always 14 called the Lions Park, and people would say, "Yeah, we'll 15 meet you at Lions Park." It's one of those things. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 MS. BUTTERS: If you named it something else, they 18 wouldn't know what you were talking about. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we're not going to take 20 any action today, but I think what -- what Tom Collins and 21 Mary Patty is saying is that that park is being used a lot, 22 okay. I think there's some other people in here that may 23 want to speak to that also. And that -- with the master plan 24 that Tom developed, that we'd like to see, you know, and in 25 consideration of other things to be done in the county, that 1-26-15wk 50 1 we take the next step and do some of the work out there to 2 get the -- the volleyball facility, or just the ground for it 3 is all it would really amount to, and some horseshoe -- 4 horseshoe pits, and put the rings up. And also -- let's see. 5 This, again, is something that Tim could do, but, you know, 6 that's not a regular maintenance item, is to clear part of 7 that -- that property out there that's in the wooded area. 8 There's probably three-quarters of an acre of waterfront 9 property there that -- that's nice to have for the park, but 10 as you add to the park, you add some more tables, and that's 11 more maintenance, and there's more work to do. So, I think 12 as we move forward, we need to consider all this stuff in 13 concert and in balance with how we move. So -- 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Ms. Butters, I hate to admit this, 15 but back in 1955 or so, when I was in high school here at 16 Tivy, we had a park improvement day for Louise Hays Park. 17 The high school let all the boys out of high school; we all 18 went down there and got shovels, picks and all that, and lots 19 of volunteers of everybody all over the city. Man, it was 20 like ants on an anthill down there, and it was a very 21 successful project. I think it might have been several of 22 the service organizations organized that, and -- and they got 23 lots of stuff done down there; concrete work, laying rock, 24 lots of things down there. And I just wonder if it might not 25 be a good thing to plan, maybe during the spring, for the 1-26-15wk 51 1 Center Point High School and the people in Center Point to 2 try to get together and pull off a project like that down 3 there in your park, and get a lot of that stuff done. 4 MR. COLLINS: I'd be glad to talk to Scott Turner 5 at the school. I know him personally, sir. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Maybe people were a little bit more 7 civic-minded then; I don't know. The high school kids, the 8 boys, oh, man, we didn't have to go to school that day, and 9 all went down there and got muddy and had a lot of fun laying 10 rocks and concrete and all that kind of stuff. It was fun. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Organized. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: It was organized. And we had -- it 13 really was amazing how much got done; won some kind of 14 national award for a civic project. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, the other thing that's -- 16 that is part of the park, and it's -- and I think it was -- I 17 think Buster and I talked about it, looked at Flat Rock Park 18 also, and that is people used to waterski in Lions Park or in 19 the river down there. Well, you can't do that any more 20 because of all the silt and rock and other debris that's 21 built up in there. And looking at an opportunity to clean, 22 take some of that silt out, and it gets expensive to do it, 23 but you have to be able to drain it. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: We did that then, too. We dredged 25 it, and they changed the course of the river so we could do 1-26-15wk 52 1 it -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: -- when that happened. That's a 4 good idea. 5 MS. BUTTERS: Well, from the gravel pits that have 6 been built around, when we've had floods, there's a lot of 7 rocks, so if you go to the dam now, it's just -- you can walk 8 down, 'cause it's all rock underwater. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, ma'am. The City's going to 10 find that out down here at Louise Hays Park. But it's 11 actually very shallow. 12 MR. JETER: My name's Carl Jeter. I just built a 13 house there upstream a little ways on the Guadalupe a few 14 hundred yards from up there. That was one of the things that 15 I'd approached Tom about, was the possibility of pulling the 16 plug hopefully and draining the -- draining it, let us get in 17 there and clean it out. We find bicycles. There's all kinds 18 of stuff that's off in there. One thing you'll note is, we 19 lived here 30 years. Every time it floods, it builds a 20 little more silt and some more gravel in there, and you can 21 actually walk waist-deep on the back side of the dam all the 22 way across the river there, it's built in so much. But 23 another thing that's happened because of all the silt that's 24 in there now, it's -- it's overgrown with lilies. Water 25 lilies are everywhere; they're taking it over down there. 1-26-15wk 53 1 So, I -- you know, I'm in hopes that we can figure out the 2 proper channels to go through to let us pull the plug and 3 maybe get in there and dredge it up, clean it out a little 4 bit and make it better. If you guys have not been down there 5 lately, we just sold a couple more lots there. There's two 6 more people that are going to build houses there on the river 7 there, and it's -- it's turning into a pretty good deal. The 8 park, one thing I'd like to see and say is I wish the 9 Commissioners could adopt a set of rules for the use of the 10 park, and maybe park hours and those types of things, you 11 know, littering and that kind of stuff. That's the biggest 12 thing that I see when I drive across there. I mean, people 13 just -- it's amazing the litter that -- you know, they won't 14 walk over and throw it in the trash can; they'll just throw 15 it on the ground. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: We can't make them do that. 17 MR. JETER: I know. I mean -- well, you can fine 18 them for it. I mean, I think there's ways, if you -- if you 19 write them a ticket and fine them; I don't know. But another 20 thing. We were -- we were over there the other day, New 21 Year's Eve, and there was a truck over there at 2:30 in the 22 morning. Well, it turned out it was the one that was stolen 23 that they abandoned down river there, you know. I mean, at 24 some point you ought to cut that off, and if you drive by 25 there and there's somebody in there, they ought to chase them 1-26-15wk 54 1 out of there. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: That takes more police and more -- 3 MR. JETER: Well, I mean, they're patrolling. And 4 I'm just saying, I'm not -- I'm not -- I just think there's 5 some things we could do. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me comment on a couple of 7 those things. In the -- in the master plan, I believe we 8 also had additional trash barrels down on the downstream side 9 of the dam, both sides of the road, so that people had a 10 place to put the debris. We did that at Brinks Crossing and 11 had a huge improvement in the debris. And -- and you can't 12 believe all the stuff that was in there. I mean, 16 bags of 13 dirty diapers and all, which don't appear any more. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, I have an issue with 15 that, myself. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me finish my point there. 17 So, two -- two trash barrels there. We look at both sides of 18 it, at least have a place to put it rather than throwing it 19 in the river. And I -- and the other thing is, it is 20 recommended by the insurance, T.A.C., that we put some signs 21 up there that says what the park hours are because of our 22 liability associated, which -- which, you know, may or may 23 not -- I mean, putting signs up helps, okay? Enforcing them 24 is a different thing. And they even recommended putting a 25 gate across it so the vehicles can't get in there at certain 1-26-15wk 55 1 hours. So -- but that's somebody to open and close the gate. 2 So, I think these things need to be addressed, and I think it 3 could help -- help on maintaining the quality. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Sorry, Rusty. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all right. The only 7 issue I have with some of that, and we've done it in the 8 past, the more trash cans you put down there, the more trash 9 is going to be thrown out, 'cause people would rather do that 10 than take it to the dump or take it anywhere else. This 11 winter it's deer carcasses during hunting season, and it's my 12 trustees down there that are cleaning up. And to be honest, 13 I don't care if you put 100 trash cans down there; in one 14 week, the 100 of them are going to be full, and so that can 15 be counterproductive and create a lot of other issues besides 16 just continually putting trash cans down there. So, I -- I 17 do strongly disagree with that. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think Brinks Crossing proved 19 this past year, though, it was an improvement, and in just 20 picking up and cleaning up the river. Last July. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would tend to disagree with 22 you on that. Now, the only other thing is that I would -- I 23 would have an issue with -- or I do think it's great if we 24 can set hours and -- and, you know, the County could pass 25 some rules and regulations for it, but if they're not going 1-26-15wk 56 1 to be enforced, it's useless to do. And just to let you 2 know, I'd like to know who's going to enforce them, okay? 3 That's my issue. My issue is because, and this Court very 4 well knows it, if it's a perfect world and I don't have a 5 single soul off, nobody's in training, nobody's on vacation, 6 nobody's sick, nobody's nothing, I have five officers working 7 the street for 1,100 square miles in this county. I do not 8 have time to be concerned about a litterer down at Center 9 Point county park or Ingram Park or any of the rest of those 10 compared to the other issues we have, whether it's the 11 burglaries and the drug dealings. And a lot of these are in 12 the parks, but what we're doing in those parks is actually 13 looking for that, the stolen vehicles the burglaries, the 14 theft. 15 I'm not too worried about the guy that throws out 16 his trash. I agree, it's a problem, but I don't have time to 17 be sitting down there, you know, being litter cops. We just 18 don't have that kind of manpower, and it all amounts to, you 19 know, what do we want? I mean, how much do we want our taxes 20 to go up for that manpower? Or can we have our own citizens 21 start joining together? And I think that's the first I heard 22 of what the school did back then, Judge. I think that is one 23 of the neatest things, and just creates an organization to 24 help go down there and police it and keep it clean, just pick 25 it up. It's not going to solve the litter. People are going 1-26-15wk 57 1 to throw out no matter what, but at least -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your three minutes are up. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- help keep it clean. Bye, 4 Buster. 5 MR. STEADHAM: I'd like to say something. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: State your name. 7 MR. STEADHAM: Rick Steadham. I agree with him a 8 little bit about as much as you put out the trash cans, they 9 will fill them up, although there is a -- a number there that 10 will help. A few there will help reduce what people would 11 naturally -- 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Do you live in the Center Point 13 area? 14 MR. STEADHAM: Yes, I live on Center Point Road, 15 and across the street, next door to Carl. I own both sides 16 of the road there on the -- on the lake also, and to the 17 point of the -- the boat ramp deal. We're one of the few 18 places and one of the most used places for tubing and 19 kayaking in the county. As it is, I would personally like to 20 discourage use of motorized vehicles on the lake itself. 21 Legally, you can't really do that with the way the river 22 access laws are done with the Texas Parks and Wildlife stuff, 23 but you can limit the use of it by not having use of the boat 24 ramp, by either blocking it off to where it can still be used 25 for taking canoes or kayaks in and out, or taking it out 1-26-15wk 58 1 completely and letting them take them in and out without 2 going to the ramp. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good point. 4 MR. STEADHAM: I think that's a real good solution 5 to that problem. Going back to the hours of the park, if we 6 posted hours, midnight or 10 o'clock or whatever, it kind of 7 gives Rusty an approach to -- to the people that are in the 8 park at that time that probably shouldn't. They probably are 9 doing something, and he almost needs some reason to approach 10 them. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which that does give us a good 12 reason. 13 MR. STEADHAM: Right, that gives you a reason, 14 probable cause to ask why they're there. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 16 MR. STEADHAM: So that kind of cures two or three 17 problems there, without him having to actively police it and 18 drive by. If someone's in there at 2 o'clock in the morning, 19 he's got a reason to talk to them. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Very true. 21 MR. JETER: That was my point. I wasn't expecting 22 him to police it, but if the hours are posted and there's 23 somebody there, if the deputy happens to be driving by, he 24 can whip in there and say, "What are you doing here?" I 25 agree totally. 1-26-15wk 59 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, did we not have -- or do 2 we not have rules for Flat Rock? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You do on Flat Rock. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we don't -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't believe that you did 6 it county-wide, if I'm not mistaken. 7 MR. JETER: There's no sign. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there is at Flat Rock as 9 to hours and when you're really allowed -- like, City of 10 Kerrville has Louise Hays Park. I think you can do that. 11 You'd have to get with the County Attorney to look at that, 12 but I don't see any issue with adopting a set of rules for 13 all of the county parks. That's this thing. 14 MS. BAILEY: It actually makes more sense to have 15 the rules county-wide than to have different rules for 16 different parks. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Ingram Dam's got rules. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Ingram Dam, I think there's some 21 signs up there. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trash and littering, but 23 that's about it. 24 MS. HARGIS: No, no hours. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's as far as I know. 1-26-15wk 60 1 JUDGE POLLARD: That's a good idea to have it 2 county-wide. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other thing I think you do 4 need to look at, the Commissioner brought up, I think there 5 is a way to limit the motorized boats in there to where it 6 can only be electric trolling motors or something like that. 7 But the City's doing -- and it has been done at several other 8 parks; you can limit that size, and that ought to be -- 9 MR. COLLINS: That was our proposal originally, to 10 limit it to electric motors. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't researched that, and 12 I'm not -- 13 MR. STEADHAM: There are some rules on Texas Parks 14 and Wildlife as to how you can access the water. I would 15 think that's what it is. The only thing you could do legally 16 would be to extend the no-wake zone for a certain distance 17 from the dam -- from the boat ramp. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This guy knows right there. 19 You're exactly right. 20 MS. BAILEY: We're limited more than cities are. 21 MR. STEADHAM: The reason why they can do it is 22 U.G.R.A. is the water source, but we can't do it on this lake 23 because you can't; they won't allow it for safety reasons. 24 So, basically, it would be a lot less red type to limit the 25 access through a mechanical means. 1-26-15wk 61 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course, I don't know how 2 many we actually have on there. A lot. 3 MR. STEADHAM: A lot. I live there, and we have 4 either jet skis or people still waterskiing or people tubing 5 or something, and it erodes my bank. It does some -- some 6 things, and we call the Parks and Wildlife probably every two 7 weeks in the summer, either Carl or I do. Somebody -- I was 8 out on the 4th of July last year swimming out there, and they 9 swung a -- swung an intertube around me. After sunset, and 10 it was -- 11 JUDGE POLLARD: I think it was the Jaycees that 12 organized it, and the schools and everybody cooperated. I 13 mean, the other service organizations got in there, too. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we ought to be able to 15 pretty easily, because I know we spent some time on the rules 16 of Flat Rock; we ought to just be able to do it pretty 17 quickly. 18 MS. BAILEY: Do it pretty quickly. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expand it for all parks pretty 20 simply, rather than reinventing the wheel. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of those extra duties is 22 Len would be putting up all the signs that Road and Bridge 23 would have. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, another unfunded project. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Another Road and Bridge 1-26-15wk 62 1 function. 2 MR. HASTINGS: Post hole digger. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Is that all we need to talk 4 about on that one? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's another petition -- I 6 mean speaker thing. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Bob Gilmer? Yeah. 8 MR. GILMER: Yeah, Bob Gilmer, 245 Cook Lane, 9 Center Point, Texas. That's out in Pecan Valley, down off of 10 Elm Pass Road. Looked at the master plan, and definitely 11 appreciate the County investing funds in the park. I'd like 12 us to take a better look at function and why people are going 13 to want to go there, and -- and build things that are going 14 to appeal to that and promote that, and also promote the 15 economy of the area, and the boat ramp is certainly a pivotal 16 part of that. And I think, Tom, in your time at NASA, 17 Johnson Space Center, if you traveled down Bay Area 18 Boulevard, you cross Armand Bayou there, and the Houston 19 Canoe Club has built a really nice little deck area and 20 railings to promote kayaking and canoeing. 21 And if you know how the kayakers and canoe 22 expeditions in this area work, they generally put in 23 somewhere up above the Center Point area, and you've got to 24 portage around the dam. And if we build facilities that both 25 appeal to that, and we provide a well-lit -- I don't hear us 1-26-15wk 63 1 talking much about lighting of the parking area, but if we 2 want to preserve what we're going to build there, we ought to 3 light it, so that we -- just by the lighting alone, you 4 discourage abuse of the facility in off hours and unused 5 hours. But if you have a well-lit facility and you have the 6 maintenance there for them to portage around the dam and 7 easily get into the water below the dam, as well as to get in 8 the water and use their canoes and kayaks above the dam, 9 you're going to attract people to that area from outside the 10 area, and those people are going to buy stuff at the 11 convenience stores and at the restaurants and the gas 12 stations in the area, and provide tax dollars -- sales tax 13 dollars for the county. That's going to help support all of 14 this stuff, so that in the end, if you provide something that 15 appeals to those folks, then you're going to end up with 16 something that also pays for itself. 17 If we just have a volleyball court and a basketball 18 court, you're going to attract people that want to play 19 basketball or volleyball. If you've got playground equipment 20 for children -- and why is the park there? It's there for 21 the water. If you provide facilities, be it something like a 22 ladder that you have in a pool, or ways to get into and out 23 of the water safely for both people, and as a dog owner and a 24 dog that likes to swim, for animals to easily get into and 25 out of the water, you're going to attract more folks. You're 1-26-15wk 64 1 going to get a wider variety of folks coming to the park and 2 using the park, and the kind of folks that you want to 3 attract to the area there that are going to spend money in 4 Center Point, that are going to spend money in Kerr County. 5 And that's, I think, where we all win. Not just providing 6 something for this group or that group, but something that 7 appeals to a wide variety of folks, and we light it well. 8 And by doing the lighting, I happen to -- part of 9 my company is involved in that aspect of the -- the things in 10 the -- from a national aspect. You can incorporate CCTV 11 functions into the lighting system that can be remotely 12 monitored so you don't have to have somebody on site. 13 Somebody in an office somewhere can see a TV screen and see 14 what's happening at that site, and if necessary, disperse 15 someone. But that way, the more difficult you make it to 16 mess with stuff and tear it up, and the less likely you make 17 it that they can get away with it, the more likely they're 18 not going to mess with it. They're going to go somewhere 19 where it's not as likely; they're not going to be as easily 20 seen, and there's not going to be the potential for somebody 21 actually seeing them do it. So, with a minimal additional 22 expenditure, if we can better focus on getting them to the 23 water and facilitating what they want to do there, I think we 24 -- we can better broaden the appeal of the area, and at the 25 same time, preserve the integrity long-term. 1-26-15wk 65 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, thanks. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Thank you, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks, Bob. Thanks very 4 much. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was Bob. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Gilmer, G-i-l-m-e-r. 7 MR. GILMER: Yes. And when it comes to cleaning 8 out the place, I have a tractor and a chainsaw. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 10 MR. GILMER: And I cleared 8 acres where I live, so 11 I got experience. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can just go up to his 13 place and have a park. 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Can you come across with an extra 15 150,000 for us? 16 MR. GILMER: We can borrow that from Mary Patty. 17 (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Anybody else want to talk to 19 this issue? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not on Center Point, but I 21 think the -- 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Our other parks? Okay, let's talk 23 about them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know much about Ingram, 25 but I do think that the -- when we're looking at our 1-26-15wk 66 1 allocating funds under the capital item, we have 100,000 -- 2 what is it, 12,000? 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: True. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something like that, that we 5 ought to look at, one, the baseball fields are a county park, 6 and we're a little bit in flux based on this morning's 7 conversation about long-term what will happen with that, but 8 there may be some things over there. And also you have Flat 9 Rock Park. Flat Rock Park has been discussed for how long, 10 Buster, about something to make that -- to give the youth 11 something to do, like a frisbee golf course. They're all 12 over the country. They're not that expensive to put in. 13 That park is a perfect layout for it; long and skinny, 14 something like that. Some of the parking improvements we 15 talked about, and then River Star Park doesn't need a whole 16 lot, but it does need a new fence on the west side. It's 17 just got an old net wire fence there, and from a security 18 standpoint, that ought to be looked at. So, there's just 19 some other things we need to look at and that I see at Flat 20 Rock. Even though it's -- Precinct 2 seems to spend a lot of 21 time on this, I think it involved some master park plan way 22 back when. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What is -- what's been -- I 24 haven't been down there to see if the guys are using the 25 soccer dog run areas. 1-26-15wk 67 1 MR. BOLLIER: No. If they've been there, I haven't 2 seen them. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. Just -- 4 yeah, it's another potential. I don't know if they're using 5 it or not, so -- 6 MR. BOLLIER: If they're using it, they sure are 7 not leaving any sign. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: How many port-a-potties do we 9 have in Flat Rock Park? Two? 10 MR. BOLLIER: One. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One by the boat ramp and 12 another one -- 13 MS. HARGIS: We have one in Ingram. 14 MR. BOLLIER: We have -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, I said down at Flat Rock 16 Park. Just one? Okay. Maybe another -- another thing to 17 look at, too. I don't know if it's an issue. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Wait, I think I just told you a lie, 19 Commissioner. There's not any port-a-potties down there. 20 There's only one that we leave out there in the winter time, 21 and that is in Center Point. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 MR. BOLLIER: The rest of them were picked up. The 24 rest of them will come down back on the -- 25 MS. HARGIS: Ingram is summertime only, March -- 1-26-15wk 68 1 March or April. We bring it on out when they start swimming. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have always kept an eye 3 on the boat dock at Ingram on the upper end. And I'm so 4 sorry, I can't remember what we did there, but it's always 5 like when they pull their boats out of the water, there's 6 huge holes. 7 MS. HARGIS: It needs to be fixed bad. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me. 9 MS. HARGIS: It needs to be fixed bad. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I don't think I ever had 11 anything to do with it, but I remember Bruce dealing with it, 12 and then Billy Joe prior to me always up there maintaining 13 that thing, like he considered it a part of -- if there were 14 a park system. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's kind of the way I look 16 at that, with what Jeannie has said. And -- 17 MS. HARGIS: You know, I drove by it every day. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: A lot of people just think of 19 Ingram as the dam, and that is where the port-a-potty is, but 20 there is the boat ramp -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- on up there closer. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where we actually do some 24 work. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yeah. And I think there's -- 1-26-15wk 69 1 MS. HARGIS: It's heavily used all year long. All 2 year long. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's where to get in. And 4 the other area, back to River Star, is just because it was 5 sitting vacant, we couldn't get into it for so long, there's 6 so much lighting and electrical going through there, we 7 really need to check all of that out, because there's 8 lighting up in the trees and the walkways and stuff, and just 9 make sure all of that is functional. It's been tied up in 10 bankruptcy for so long that -- 11 JUDGE POLLARD: And safe. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Safe is more important. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: That's right. Safe. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What did you say? 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Safe. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, safe. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Any time you're dealing with 18 electricity, you got to make sure it's safe. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We found out -- or one of us 21 found out that in the Hill Country Youth Event Center, there 22 were some lines that were not safe. And we did a -- or Tim 23 had a -- needed an electrician to go through every circuit in 24 the whole building. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Did you get your hair straightened 1-26-15wk 70 1 out? Light your eyes up out there? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Charlie did. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Looking at him, he came close. 4 MR. HASTINGS: Hair used to be black or dark brown; 5 now it's white. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Black-headed when he went to 7 work here. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Some of that wasn't grounded? 9 JUDGE POLLARD: He didn't have a tic either. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: But I think all of the areas 11 need some attention. As you said, the fencing on the west 12 side of River Star. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just need to go through them 14 all and prioritize what we have. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: There's a lot of land there 16 at Flat Rock that I'm sure, you know, with some clearing and 17 stuff and grading could be utilized more than -- 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Oh, a lot more. You bet. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus with budget coming up, we 20 have three years to allocate or spend that park money. Two 21 more years? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, two more years. It would be 23 nice to have, like, a five-year plan on all the parks. Each 24 one of you maybe take your own parks, and I'll be glad to 25 help you set it out and -- and have that as part of the 1-26-15wk 71 1 capital budget for this next year. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it kind of goes with 3 the six weeks, bring this one back before budget. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Sounds great. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same thing. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, sir? 9 MR. COLLINS: Can I just make one point? That the 10 Center Point -- or the Lions Park does have good lighting, as 11 far as I know. Unless somebody's turned it off, it's pretty 12 well-lit now, so I'm not quite sure what he was -- 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Who pays for electricity? 14 MS. HARGIS: We do. 15 MR. BOLLIER: We do. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: We do. 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. COLLINS: But there are many lights there. 19 MR. BOLLIER: Pole's right almost in the center of 20 the park. 21 MS. HARGIS: Commissioner Overby had the lighting 22 put back on when he was here. It's on a timer. It's on a 23 timer. 24 MR. ODOM: Who turns off the lights? 25 MS. HARGIS: It's on a timer. 1-26-15wk 72 1 MR. BOLLIER: It's just a regular old security 2 light, that's all. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As y'all know, you got to be 4 careful about setting large -- the big rocks in Center Point 5 have gone in the water three times in my career, and it 6 just -- whatever you put down there is gone, I can promise 7 you, every time. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's absolutely true. 9 MR. ODOM: It will come up. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will come up. It will go 11 over that bridge, and you've got, you know, 4-foot-diameter 12 cypress trees coming down. It don't matter what you put in 13 that park; it's going to go back. 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And that's what we've got to 15 be mindful of on it. Every park we just talked about, with 16 the exception of River Star, will flood. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Not if. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Let's go on to the last item 21 on the agenda, decor at the Hill Country Youth Event Center. 22 Got any ideas on that, Jonathan? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Me? Only idea I have on that 24 was that you mentioned -- or mentioned it to Bruce -- one of 25 Bruce's daughters; I'm not sure which one, Amy or Hailey, and 1-26-15wk 73 1 they had quite a few old mounts from Bruce they were 2 considering donating. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Old what? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deer mounts. Axis, whitetail, 5 black buck. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's a decor, okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a decor, you know. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Judge Pollard has one he'll donate. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that there's -- you 10 know, we need to figure out a little bit of a plan. We 11 need -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Amen. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to keep the 14 decor like that, you know, Hill Country-ish. I would suspect 15 with the number of taxidermists around here, we may be able 16 to pick up some additional heads, which I think fits. I 17 think we need -- in both of the hallways at the outside of 18 the big event hall, I think we need some chairs and some 19 sitting areas, coffee tables, things like you see at most of 20 -- when you go to hotels, some of the big events, someplace 21 to sit down. Because -- and concentrate on those areas 22 first, and maybe some -- you know, the mounts, or try to get 23 some art somewhere. You know, the problem that comes in a 24 lot of that is, you know, I don't think we have the money for 25 it right now, so we're going to have to look for donations. 1-26-15wk 74 1 But I think at the same time, it has to be probably more of 2 donations to a fund so that we can buy from, as opposed to -- 3 we don't need a bunch of donated old chairs. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think -- I think I agree 5 with what you're saying. I think first thing, if you had a 6 -- had a plan of how it ought to be decorated, and then as 7 you get contributions, or people want to donate mounts or 8 heads or whatever, paintings, whatever, at least you know 9 about where it's -- where it's going to be and how it's going 10 to go, rather than look like a hodgepodge, catch as catch 11 can. So, that would probably be one of the first -- first 12 things to do. Probably ought to be put in part of the 13 budget, whatever, to have a -- have a decorating plan for 14 that. Now that you've got a nice facility, might as well -- 15 with a little bit of extra resources, you can make it look -- 16 keep it looking nice. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I think that possibly we 18 could visit with some of our art museums, and I know there's 19 a question on liability and damage, but we can figure out how 20 to work that; have some of the art on a rotating basis. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So it's not the same 23 pictures, but the same -- stay in the same design. If we're 24 going to have wildlife and everything up there, then -- then 25 we have some Hill Country or western art that comes through 1-26-15wk 75 1 on the walls, where it's not the same stuff. So as you come 2 back, you see what it is, and you see traveling exhibits like 3 that. I'm sure there's a way to work out the insurance 4 worries on stuff like that. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think so too, but I think 6 still if you had a plan for where you're going to put part of 7 that type -- you know, you don't want a nice piece of art 8 next to a, you know, black buck head. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Right. You want -- unless 10 it's a nice piece of work with a black buck in it. And also, 11 the -- the stock show, this past week, we were talking that 12 there's -- they have various old pictures and everything of 13 the history of the show and how -- and I've seen this at 14 other stock shows where it's kind of evolved, what the 15 animals looked like in the beginning, what they look like now 16 after 71 years. And they -- they have a section up there, 17 past sponsors of the show and stuff like that. And I know 18 Rosa and John had four pictures that they've taken, the two 19 groundbreakings and the two ribbon cuttings, where someplace, 20 maybe even one of the offices or someplace like that, that 21 they could be contributed to show how everything went on 22 those. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think it -- I don't know if 24 it's hiring a professional or getting some of the local 25 interior decorators to do that, but if you're going to -- 1-26-15wk 76 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Get somebody to donate that; 2 interior decorator would probably volunteer to do it. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think so too. You could 4 probably do that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, as an example, there's 6 a picture of my dear old friend Aime Frank Real with his 7 Southdown sheep, and he -- I think he won a national 8 championship of some sort, came out of the Kerrville show and 9 went on to -- I promise you, that sheep and him look exactly 10 alike. (Laughter.) They do. I'd love to see that picture, 11 'cause I'm serious. I'd love to see it. And I -- I'll put 12 together a big painting of my dog if you want to hang it up 13 there somewhere. She's a pretty thing, boy, I'll tell you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, we'll work on that 15 a little bit, trying to find someone to who wants to do it. 16 And with the -- and certainly, the first that comes to mind 17 is Moore's or Rick's. Going through one of them, I'm sure 18 they would at least arrange to get us the stuff, once we find 19 it, at cost. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I bet, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of those I think would be a 22 good resource, and would probably donate their services. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Tim? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In this room at one time, we 1-26-15wk 77 1 had western art everywhere, and we took it down to paint the 2 walls. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have any idea where 5 those paintings are? 6 MR. BOLLIER: I have an idea. I think -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have an idea? 8 MR. BOLLIER: I think -- I think -- I may be wrong. 9 I think they went down to Ray's place -- Ray Garcia, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was telling Judge Pollard 11 about it the other day, and he wasn't aware of them. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- which pictures? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Paintings that we had in 14 here that we took down when we painted. Remember those 15 western art prints? Some of them were really cool looking. 16 MR. BOLLIER: I'll find them. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to see them, see 18 what they look like, see if that's the -- you know, the kind 19 of thing that we want to do. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can go to someone like 21 Moore's or Rick's; they go to the markets in Dallas. You 22 could, you know, buy a lot of all those paintings; you can 23 buy them pretty inexpensive. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You could use part of it also 1-26-15wk 78 1 as an educational -- you could put some of the walls with the 2 history of Kerr County, some of the old, old history 3 photographs done up, or the history of the stock show, and 4 use it kind of as an educational for people that do come 5 there to different events, let them see how Kerr County's 6 grown from the, you know -- 7 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, it would be nice have a picture 8 of what the very first one, and what it's progressed from the 9 very first till now. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And it depends on what events 11 you're going to have in there too, you know. If it's stock 12 show events and other events -- if it's the telephone company 13 wants to come in, they, you know, need something that's going 14 to appeal to the market. Okay, that's the idea for getting 15 somebody professional, whether you pay them or not to do it. 16 At least have a plan. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good, Judge. Thank 18 you. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Do we need to discuss that 20 any more? If not, that looks like that's the end of the road 21 isn't it? 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Works for me. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Just waiting for to you say 24 adjourned. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Adjourned. 1-26-15wk 79 1 (Workshop was adjourned at 3:05 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 4 5 STATE OF TEXAS | 6 COUNTY OF KERR | 7 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 8 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 9 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 10 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 11 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of February, 12 2015. 13 14 REBECCA BOLIN, Kerr County Clerk 15 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 16 Certified Shorthand Reporter 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-26-15wk