1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Workshop 8 Monday, March 9, 2015 9 1:41 p.m. 10 Commissioners' Courtroom 11 Kerr County Courthouse 12 Kerrville, Texas 13 14 15 16 17 H.C.Y.E.C. and County Parks 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: TOM POLLARD, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, March 9, 2015, at 1:30 p.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. We're back in session 7 for the workshop now. I guess it's the workshop session. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, workshop. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. And that is Item -- 10 let's see. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's not -- it's just -- 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's a separate posted 13 agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Separate posted meeting. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: On the Hill Country Youth Event 16 Center and County Parks. Do we want to -- how do we want to 17 get a handle on this initially? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll give an update and give 19 y'all some light reading. I visited by phone with Spectrum 20 -- Global Spectrum, I think is name of the outfit. They 21 manage facilities like ours, and a lot larger. I've got one. 22 You have one? 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Keep it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got another one. They go 25 everything from -- the closest one to us would be the 3-9-15 wk 3 1 fairgrounds in Nueces County, all the way up to the -- 2 whatever the name of the stadium was where the Super Bowl was 3 held. They managed, you know, that. And all over the world, 4 big company. We would be on their smaller side, but they do 5 everything. And this packet kind of shows what they do, how 6 they kind of do them. There's a sample RFP, scope of 7 services, contract, various things that -- you know, the 8 annual report they put together for the Nueces County one. 9 It just shows you what's out there. And they said they would 10 be glad -- they would come down. They -- I think I mentioned 11 this to the Court last meeting; they would come down if we 12 requested, send a representative to meet with us about how it 13 goes. But, generally, they work on a fixed-fee basis. That 14 allows the entities to -- you know, like with us, with the 15 stock show, though, that would be a blocked off period where 16 they wouldn't be able to get any revenue. So the fixed 17 fee -- and it accounts for that, and, you know, allows the 18 local entities to have some control over the use of it, or 19 actually quite a bit of control. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: How about the various charitable 21 ones that are always coming in here asking for a waiver? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- 23 JUDGE POLLARD: That would be up to them, huh? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's up to us. It's -- how 25 the whole thing is set up is up to us. If we want to give it 3-9-15 wk 4 1 away every day and just pay them, they'd probably do it that 2 way. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the other -- whereas the 4 other thing would be if they took a percentage, then they'd 5 have to have full control. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They won't do a percentage 7 only. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that was an 10 option. It's a fixed-fee basis. Now, then there's a 11 percentage split over an agreed amount, annual budget amount. 12 I mean, you know, we may get a rebate, essentially, if they 13 get -- like, if their target's $1 million in revenue, and 14 they're at 1.5, then you could get a percentage of that 15 500,000 back. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, that's -- they 18 will do everything from marketing, booking, setup, cleanup, 19 full maintenance, everything. They'll do the whole package, 20 or they'll do what we ask. You know, it's all negotiable, 21 they said. But it's kind of a starting point on how to look 22 at that at the facility. And it's -- anyway, it's for 23 everyone to look at and read. We've talked about it, and 24 here's kind of a hard copy. There are other companies that 25 do this. This is just one that I talked to one of the vice 3-9-15 wk 5 1 presidents up in Connecticut; Frank Russo I think is his 2 name. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I believe this is one 4 that Charlie from C.V.B. -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: McIlvain. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- had sent us this 7 information. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: On this. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, yeah. That's the one he 11 said this is -- it's a good company. He didn't say it's the 12 only company, but he said he's worked with them, and they're 13 a management-type company. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, this is for the whole 15 complex? Or -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be totally -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So he just basically says, 18 "Here's the kind of services we provide at these other 19 things, and we'll come down and talk to you, see what you 20 want"? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "If you want, we'll come down." 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But this is what they do. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they do a lot -- I mean, 3-9-15 wk 6 1 these are just a few of the kind of the things that I've gone 2 through. In my mind, the cleanup and the setup and all that 3 would be great to contract out. I'm not sure I'd want to 4 contract out the maintenance, because if they're trying to 5 make a profit -- or this really doesn't make a profit; it 6 goes into all the I.R.S. rules as to their limitations, but 7 what's their incentive to keep it up if they're, you know, 8 trying to cut their expenses? 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, to me -- but, you know, 11 that's one of the things. But there's just a -- I thought it 12 was an interesting thing to look at, whether we want to do 13 it. They clearly said they would have no problem with us 14 using the RFP form they use here. Whether they got it or 15 not, they don't care. They just put it out there. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Do we have any rough kind of an 17 idea what something like their full-service, except for 18 maintenance/cleanup, would be? Let me tell you what I'm 19 thinking of, Jonathan. What I would like to do is, we've got 20 a nice facility here that's affording lots of services for 21 our public -- our taxpayers and our community, and for their 22 use of it. And I'm aiming towards trying to figure a way to 23 see if we can raise some funds to just help take care of 24 maintenance and -- and cleaning up and things like that out 25 there. Not for paying for the facility or anything like 3-9-15 wk 7 1 that, but just for helping as much as possible in trying to 2 alleviate the taxpayers from some of the expenses of 3 operating and maintaining it out there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think -- 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Now, if we -- if this is something 6 that's going to cost lots of thousands of dollars a month for 7 us to pay them to do, that I think we're -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- 9 JUDGE POLLARD: -- not be going to be able to do 10 this. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you have to look at 12 what we're spending right now. We're going to have a utility 13 bill right now; we're going to have crews out there. And 14 depending on -- I mean, to me, we have basically two extreme 15 options. One, we hire a company to do the whole thing. The 16 other option is, we hire all internal staff to do the whole 17 thing. Either one's going to cost us a bunch of money. I 18 mean, if you're going to market it, do all that, and you know 19 you're going to have -- we have to bring on, whether it's a 20 contractor or whoever, someone to take over the marketing and 21 booking. I think we've all agreed the way we're doing it 22 right now isn't the best. The cleanup and maintenance out 23 there, you know, we either have to add a couple people to the 24 maintenance staff and just do it in-house, or not. But you 25 start talking about a lot of money. Well, if we do it 3-9-15 wk 8 1 in-house, two maintenance people are, you know, 80 -- 80,000? 2 About 80,000 -- probably close to 100,000 a year. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Probably 100,000, right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, it's costing us 5 either way. It's what is the most efficient way? A company 6 like this, I think, brings in on the marketing side the 7 ability to -- they're working with these, you know, 8 regional -- Peddlers -- what's the Peddlers thing called? 9 The one that's up in -- 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: The Country Peddler. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Country Peddler is listed as 12 one they got down to the Nueces County one. And the Saxet 13 Gun Show is one they listed, the new -- 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Peddler has been over in 15 Fredericksburg for a number of years, too. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, a company like this already 17 has connections to a lot of these regional -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Lots of markets, regular 19 sources. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And they can say to 21 even, like, the pork producers or something -- you know, who 22 knows what it is? The chicken raisers -- that, "Hey, there's 23 a neat place in Kerrville; y'all may want to go there." So, 24 you know, there's definitely going to be a cost to doing it, 25 but there's also going to be a cost to doing anything. 3-9-15 wk 9 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I don't think it's going 2 to cost us anything to get them down here to talk to them. 3 We may find out from a rough estimate that it's totally not 4 beneficial to us. We may find out, hey, we may want to let 5 this out with an RFP, because it is beneficial. We don't 6 know till somebody gets down here. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: You know, and I think reading 9 through this prospectus or whatever you want to call it, the 10 concerns that we all have, as you said, the stock show and a 11 few other things like that, there's ways to insure that those 12 dates are protected, and that they want -- you know, whether 13 it's county fair, the stock show or whichever one, but that 14 they're -- they're protected. But, you know, it wouldn't 15 hurt just to have them to come down here. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm a strong advocate for 17 that, okay. Have them come down, look at it. And I'm a 18 strong advocate for realizing there's a lot more potential if 19 we have somebody professional like this to market and -- and 20 book it. And it's not -- you know, marketing's not just 21 taking orders; it's going out and doing the kind of things 22 you're saying, Jonathan, is looking at who could possibly use 23 it, and if they've got a lot of contacts -- and that was, you 24 know, what, a year and a half, two years ago when we asked 25 the marketing department of Schreiner University to look at 3-9-15 wk 10 1 it? And they said, wow, you know, you've got the potential 2 for something really big there, but it has to be marketed 3 properly. And so this is just a step in that direction. So, 4 we've got a couple of different things that says, "Yea, 5 verily." 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And it's not going to cost 7 anything to get them down here. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Absolutely right. Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And, you know, I have no 10 idea the amount. They were careful not to tell me over the 11 phone, because they -- they don't know our facility. They've 12 seen the plans; they had the plans. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: They don't know how to bid it 14 either, or even give you an idea. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I think they -- 16 when they're here, they can -- in a conversation with them, I 17 think we could come up with that, whether we did it -- you 18 know, have them come to the court and -- or maybe, you know, 19 Bob and I, whoever can meet with them first and then bring 20 them to the court for a presentation so they get -- so they 21 can see the facility first. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we can ask questions. Or 24 the other option is to figure out what it's going to cost to 25 do some -- contract out some various pieces of it. I think 3-9-15 wk 11 1 we've worked with -- I've worked with Tim and Bob, and I have 2 the last couple weeks, about the contracting side, how you 3 start taking some of the things off of his plate. But I 4 think, you know, my goal is to have a plan in place by next 5 budget year. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Boy, that's a good target. I'd 7 like to see that too, because it's going to affect our next 8 budget. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Substantially. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you need to clearly 13 understand and know what you want to do with our facility, 14 though. You know, I'll give you an example. Back here in 15 the back end of this thing, the Richard Borchards thing that 16 they do, -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I don't know if you saw 19 that picture or not, but there's -- there's a director of 20 finance, operations supervisor, director of food and 21 beverage. You know, just -- senior sales, marketing manager, 22 operations manager on a facility. So, you know, do you -- 23 are you going to have -- are you going to provide a kitchen 24 at some functions? Are you going to have a person that 25 directs that kind of thing? You know, that -- just knowing 3-9-15 wk 12 1 what -- what all you're going to do so when they do come 2 down, you say, "This is what we're going to do." 3 JUDGE POLLARD: A lot of facilities, other things, 4 equipment and -- 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, I think it depends on 6 the facility, too, Judge. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I mean, if they're booking -- 9 I said where the Super Bowl was. I'm sure that's got a lot 10 more amenities to offer than what we've got to offer, you 11 know. But -- so that's what we need to look at, and we can 12 learn by having them come down here and see, I feel. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think where we are now, we 15 just, you know, have -- have nothing. We can learn a lot. 16 I'm all for getting them down here, and I think it's a good 17 idea, too. You and Bob talk to them, get them familiar with 18 what's there, what's been there, what's in the facilities 19 now, and get their interaction there. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll regret it if we don't 21 do it. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'll set something up. 24 I'll call them up. I think their local -- or their Texas rep 25 is Jason Green, I believe. 3-9-15 wk 13 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Are we going to have to address in 3 the next budget a kitchen out there? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's something -- I 5 don't think we need a kitchen. We need to finish out what 6 we've done. We need to finish the catering kitchen, but it's 7 not installing stoves and stuff. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Kind of like Jeannie was 9 talking about, identifying the capital things that we see, 10 have capital investments. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we definitely have to have 12 some way to serve food. That has to be -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They probably have some 14 thoughts and guidance on that, too. 15 MR. TROLINGER: I also have a capital item that 16 will pertain to the facility. Right now we have wireless 17 service. It's rudimentary. And H.E.B. came in this last 18 go-round when the facility was booked with three different 19 events, pretty big. And, fortunately, Hill Country Telephone 20 stepped up to the plate and said, hey, we'll turn on -- 21 they've got fiberoptic service in there, so we'll just turn 22 on the thing. You can come plug in, and there you go for the 23 weekend; you're all set. But right now, what we provide is 24 really basic, and it's inadequate for large events. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's a capital item 3-9-15 wk 14 1 you're talking about, right? 2 MR. TROLINGER: It is. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that a thing we want to 4 talk about today? I'm not against it, but is that what we're 5 trying to -- 6 MR. TROLINGER: If we do need to look at the 7 capital, Hill Country Telephone did a large project up in 8 Fredericksburg that covered their outdoor and indoor 9 facilities for -- I can't remember the name of their -- their 10 event center. Basically, it's in downtown. It's really 11 nice. They've got some indoor and outdoor things. Well, 12 they blanketed the place with wireless coverage. And it 13 would apply to not only the indoor infrastructure, but even 14 the outdoor -- River Star, and over at the outdoor arena 15 where we'd be able to provide internet service. So, I have 16 in my back pocket, ready -- well, I'm ready to make a call to 17 put in my back pocket to get an estimate on what it would 18 take to do those things. And I want to know from the Court 19 if you thought I should proceed with doing that in-house, or 20 should I wait for what you're getting ready to do here? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think that's a budget 22 item, and I think anything -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Capital budget item. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any items that people think, 25 you know, we need out there, we need to get at least on the 3-9-15 wk 15 1 table for the budget. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Absolutely, go get 'em. Go 3 get a price and make the case, you know, if that's what we 4 need to do. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. So I'll proceed on -- I'll 6 plan on doing it in-house, and -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Go for it. 8 MR. TROLINGER: -- and budget it as a capital item. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Go for it. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, thanks. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. Let's invite them down. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And next item on the -- 13 part of the agenda I thought that we should look at is both 14 the rates and -- the contract. And that's based on the bad 15 event we had not too long ago. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yeah. And I think with the 17 rates, you know, before we were completed, the Court approved 18 some rates that we had obtained from calling surrounding 19 facilities in other counties. And while I think those rates 20 are competitive that we might have to look at when we're 21 trying to attract out-of-county conventions, conferences, 22 trade shows -- I think those are competitive. I think our 23 rates, what we're charging for local events -- in other 24 words, weddings, family reunions, what-have-you -- are too 25 low compared to the ones here in town, and I think that's why 3-9-15 wk 16 1 we're booking it up so fast. And while we're talking rates, 2 I think we need to think at some point that local events are 3 only booked out so far in advance. In other words, if you're 4 going to have a family reunion, wedding, we'll only book it 5 out six months, 'cause we very easily could book this 6 facility up with local events and not be bringing in 7 out-of-county events that would bring money. Because most of 8 those, you got to be working on them about a year in advance. 9 About two weeks ago, Jody and Tim and I met with the Alamo 10 Area Cluster of Dog Shows, which just concluded at the 11 Freeman Coliseum this past weekend. And I don't know if 12 you've heard from them affirmatively? 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: He left a message this morning, but 14 I haven't been able to call him back. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: They're wanting to move it 16 from the Freeman in San Antonio to Kerrville for a three-year 17 contract period starting next March. So, we don't want to 18 book out too far in advance with one-night events. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: A week long or something like that? 20 MS. GRINSTEAD: I think it's five days. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Five days. 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: But you also received an e-mail 23 from the Peddlers that are looking at 2016-2017, spring and 24 fall dates also. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How far in advance does someone 3-9-15 wk 17 1 who's planning a wedding or something like that -- do you do 2 a wedding? 3 MS. HARGIS: About a year. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Twelve months, easy. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Saturday night. (Laughter.) 6 MS. HARGIS: Usually. You usually do your venue -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: You can tie up a whole week with 8 these weddings. They can book it for one day and make that 9 week -- it might be a Saturday, you know, and then somebody 10 like the Peddler show may want to book it that whole week 11 from us, or five days or whatever, and it's not available for 12 them because they got to have Saturday, too. So, I think we 13 need to do something about that. Maybe it ought to be a 14 minimum of a two-day rental. 15 MR. BOLLIER: What you're going to have is, as long 16 as you've got -- as long as we're allowing private parties 17 out there and everything, private parties are going to take 18 that place over every weekend. As long as you got private 19 parties out there, you're never going to have room to have 20 other functions in there, because they call and they book it 21 up faster than anybody else. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you -- if you don't let them 23 book it up more than six months in advance, then they won't 24 be able to. Any big events -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: You got -- let me be the devil's 3-9-15 wk 18 1 advocate here. We're going to go, "Okay, you can't book it 2 until six months in advance." 3 JUDGE POLLARD: With a single event. 4 MR. BOLLIER: So you get six months in advance 5 there, they book it. Then all of a sudden you got all these 6 Quinceañeras in the middle of it, and then in the middle of 7 it, you can't book anything big. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't book a Quinceañera -- 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Can't book a wedding, a 10 family reunion -- 11 MR. BOLLIER: I understand. I'm sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- more than six months out. 13 That gives you breathing room to book these other long-term 14 events that, as Number 1 said, brings in the money. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, beyond six months. You 16 can rent two, three years out; you have to, some of them. 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: Currently, we do up to three years 18 as well. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we only do out six months 20 for a private -- 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: I'm sorry. For the big events like 22 Texas Gun and Knife Show, those kind of things, three months. 23 Currently on private parties, we're one year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Shorten private parties. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3-9-15 wk 19 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six months is a long time. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, it is. 4 MS. GRINSTEAD: But the bigger events are doing -- 5 like the Kennel Club -- San Antonio Kennel Club, they look a 6 year out. Peddlers are looking a year out. So, I think if 7 you do those private parties down to six months, these bigger 8 events are looking a year, two years out; they're not wanting 9 six months from now, so I think that would eliminate a lot of 10 the problem. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least eliminate the -- us 12 losing something. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Six months seems like a good 14 starting point. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Let me ask a question. Let's see, 16 I know I talked to somebody recently; they went to a wedding 17 out there. It was a Mexican wedding that had -- the guy 18 claimed it was at least 1,000 people there. And -- 19 MR. BOLLIER: Valentine's Day. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. I don't know how long it 21 takes those people to set up and use the place, but do they 22 come out more than one day ahead of time trying to set stuff 23 up? 24 MS. GRINSTEAD: One day. The Friday before the 25 event, they can get in. 3-9-15 wk 20 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, that's two days that they've 2 tied it up. 3 MR. BOLLIER: But it was only set up -- only 4 supposed to be set up for 460 to 500 people. We ended up 5 with 1,100 people. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're talking about the time, 7 Tim. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: I think they ought -- if they want 10 to come out and have a setup time, they ought to pay for that 11 day too. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I do too. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, at least pay for a 14 setup date, pay half the rate or something like that. Or 15 maybe the full rate; I don't know. You know, I agree, they 16 shouldn't get it free. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You're obligating the 19 facility. 20 MR. BOLLIER: We have all these nice facilities out 21 there. We have River Star over there. How come we're not 22 pushing stuff over into the River Star area? There's private 23 parties -- 24 JUDGE POLLARD: There's not -- weather's not right 25 for it yet, but you wait. 3-9-15 wk 21 1 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I was saying. I mean, we 2 need to push stuff over there. We need to utilize the 3 facility that we have, because there's too much over there. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I think we are. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're already scrambling with 6 what we got. 7 MR. BOLLIER: I know, but I understand. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can we change the subject? We 9 were trying to talk about the timeline and the rates, as 10 opposed to all of the facilities. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- you know, I don't 12 know what's -- I don't know what's reasonable. Bob, if 13 they're going to use it for a setup, do they get a two-day 14 rental for that, or half a day? 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I know just -- 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Our local rates are cheap. 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, what I'm trying to say 18 is, with one of my other businesses that is kind of involved 19 with weddings, we go to different trade shows, and setup is 20 often that morning. They don't get to set up till the 21 morning of the event. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What's the Y.O. or Inn of the 23 Hills and things like that do for their -- 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I don't know on the weddings. 25 I know on stuff like Charity Ball and stuff, they're setting 3-9-15 wk 22 1 up the night before and stuff. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: But a lot of the wedding 4 venues, you can get in at a certain time. And then friends 5 of mine that their children have got married will stay to 6 clean up. You got to be out that night, 'cause they may have 7 something else going on. You basically got it for a 24-hour 8 period. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 24 hours. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Right. And this is just 11 private parties. I mean, we're attracting other things. 12 We've got to look at that, you know. But private parties and 13 stuff, you know, a 24-hour period that you can get in and get 14 out, because very often there may be something else going on. 15 There's two options. Pay a half a day's rental for a setup 16 on -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Day before. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- the day before, or maybe 19 you have something that you pay an extra day's rental, but 20 you get it from Friday noon till Sunday afternoon or 21 something to allow setup of events and cleanup. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And cleanup. That's a good 23 idea. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Two full days charge. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Yeah. 3-9-15 wk 23 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Two full days spread out over 2 a two and a half day weekend, something like that. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's a good idea, 4 because you get to set up; then you get some time to clean 5 up, too. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause that's what they're 8 doing right now; they're coming in the next morning to clean 9 up. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems reasonable. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And right now, if we don't 13 have -- have anything, it -- you know, it's not walking over 14 the top of the next event. But what if we do have a Saturday 15 night wedding and a Sunday family reunion or something? I 16 don't want to leave money on the table. Are you stretching? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I ain't stretching. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get to security. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm not just talking 20 about security. The issue we had -- and one of the big ones 21 the other -- on the party that got out of control, in my 22 opinion, was those people did rent that party for up to 400 23 or 500 people. Then they put it out on Facebook as an open 24 invitation, B.Y.O.B. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another issue, though. 3-9-15 wk 24 1 Let's stay focused. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm talking about here is 3 whatever your regulations are on your prices, you need to end 4 the B.Y.O.B. or have a licensed bartender, or raise those 5 prices up. And what we're having now since that one is these 6 other parties now, you're getting all these people that 7 weren't even invited to those other parties that are showing 8 up. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another -- that's 10 another whole topic. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You got that on there? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's separate. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll wait. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, to me -- I mean, 15 and the contracts that we have out, what flexibility do we 16 have to modify anything with some of these provisions? 17 JUDGE POLLARD: It's an understanding, any new ones 18 we make. 19 MS. BAILEY: We can make changes to the new ones, 20 but if we have one already under contract, we can't really 21 change it unless they say okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the new policy -- 23 I mean, I like the -- the plan he came up with, noon to noon. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And charge two days. Or they 3-9-15 wk 25 1 get it that day, and they've got to start that morning and be 2 out by midnight. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There you go. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: For price "X." 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we always did. 6 You come in that morning and set up, if you want to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Come in that morning, set it 9 up, and then when -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good way to do it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not necessarily that night 12 at midnight, but whatever the -- we would always run, like, 13 three-day deals, and midday you got to be out of there. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sometime. I mean -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, one day. One day or two 16 days. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you charge a day. If 18 you're there 20 minutes, you're charged a day, and they all 19 understand that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: But, see, if you charge two days 22 like that, and it's noon to noon like that, and then somebody 23 comes in and wants it on the last day for all day, it's gone. 24 We can't rent it again for this next day. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: No, but we've got an extra 3-9-15 wk 26 1 day's rent that we normally wouldn't have got. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think we could do 4 something like that to start with, and just see if that fits. 5 And if it doesn't, then adjust. Not based on what you've cut 6 the deals with, but -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, we need to change the prices, 8 too. They need to go up a little bit. 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Based on your -- what you're 11 finding. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think on what I will call a 13 private event, a private party or a wedding reception, family 14 reunion, what-have-you, I think we need to go up. I'm not 15 for sure at this point that we want to do anything, you know, 16 where we're trying to attract out-of-town, multi-day 17 commercial events till after we have these people come, but 18 -- because we're kind of in line with other comparable size 19 facilities that we called around and talked to, whether it's 20 the new Fairplex in Uvalde -- I forgot where all we called, 21 Jody. But we called a lot of other municipal-owned 22 facilities, and we're kind of in line there. I think it's 23 our private parties are where we're out of line, and I think 24 there's a definite -- 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Let's get them up. 3-9-15 wk 27 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- definite structure break. 2 And I think just with some of the new facilities that have 3 opened here, based on our seating capacity, we're too low. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but shouldn't it -- it 5 seems to me that one of the issues -- and I don't know; I'm 6 not disagreeing with that, but the issue seems to be a lot 7 the required cleaning that comes out of these events. So, if 8 we added a -- leave the rates where they are, and add a 9 cleaning fee for private parties that is maybe $500 or 10 whatever -- you know, an amount. And if you're going to have 11 a private party there, you're going to pay -- you know, you 12 still have to do basic cleanup, put up your deposit, but it's 13 just built into the cleaning charge. Into the rate for the 14 one day, anyway. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something like that, to me. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, will it be mandatory, though, 18 or would they come back and say, like some folks do after a 19 wedding, "We'll come back and clean those walls, and we'll 20 make them as clean as before if you waive that cleanup fee"? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'd say you can't. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: It's mandatory. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's mandatory. There's still 24 a deposit. They have the cleanup -- the basic cleanup, but 25 they're not going in there with mops. We still -- no matter 3-9-15 wk 28 1 how clean they make it, we still have to go in there and mop 2 and clean the restrooms. They're not going to go in there 3 with a toilet brush and clean out toilets and all that stuff. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, I like it. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I think that the -- raise 6 their deposit, too, to make it where you're not apt to just 7 walk off and say -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: We have it at $300. To me, 10 $300 is pretty stout to walk off from, but I guess if you've 11 spent most of the day getting ready for the event, then being 12 a host at the event all night, and it's midnight, 1 o'clock, 13 maybe that $300 doesn't look like it's that big a deal. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the morning when you have a 15 hangover. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: 500. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think, you know, put a 18 $500 cleaning deposit, $500 mandatory for private parties. 19 That ought to get their attention. Now, the other thing that 20 -- then we get back to some of the other issues here. But 21 while we're on cleaning a little bit, Bob and I and Tim 22 and -- whatever Catie's last name is, met out there. Catie 23 is the lady that Tim has contracted with right now to do 24 once-a-week cleaning. We met with her and said, "Give us an 25 estimate on what it would cost for you to clean after any 3-9-15 wk 29 1 event, all the restrooms up," to basically take over the 2 entire cleaning of that whole -- of the show barn and the 3 event hall, period. Take over the cleaning of it. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: On a per -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On a per-event. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: -- rental? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand it's hourly, but 8 it would be kind of a flat fee. And what she'd charge for 9 setup and take-down, and what she would also charge to have a 10 staff person or one of her people there for all these private 11 parties who's kind of an overseer. And if there's a problem, 12 they can say, "Hey, I've noticed this" to the security 13 people. If there's a toilet get stopped up, they can call 14 Tim's people. Not -- you know, but -- and then, you know, of 15 course, this would all be passed on. But she'd give us -- 16 did they come back with that? 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I've got it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, he's got it. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And her name is West. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Catie West. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: She quoted for the back 22 bathrooms, being the two in the show barn, there's two men's, 23 two women's, $80. Table and chair breakdown or setup -- and 24 we're really not having much setup now with the private 25 parties, 'cause everybody wants the tables put up different. 3-9-15 wk 30 1 But the -- the taking down of the tables after the events, 2 she'd supply two people at $100 per hour. Which Tim and I 3 figured the basic events would probably be a couple hours 4 worth of work. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's wiping all the 6 tables off, cleaning them a little bit. Not -- I mean -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: $100 an hour for two people? 8 $50 an hour per person? 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And then on location -- 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Nice job. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Boy, engineers charge more than 13 that. They got an hourly rate. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not retired engineers. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: On location supervision, $300 16 for one person up until midnight. After midnight, it would 17 be $100 per hour. For large or double events that would 18 require two people, the price would double. That seems 19 pretty high to me. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we just asked her for 21 numbers, and we said, "Here, give us some numbers." 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Well, and it's probably negotiable, 23 too. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 JUDGE POLLARD: Starting place. 3-9-15 wk 31 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the only reason we went 2 with Catie is 'cause she's the one that Tim contacted and is 3 cleaning it right now. You could go out for bids, but this 4 gives you some kind of a feel. But my goal right now is -- 5 is to get as much of that maintenance -- or the cleaning side 6 of that facility away from Maintenance Department. It's 7 killing them. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: It is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And to me, this approach is 10 going to be a lot less going in, and plus we can kind of feel 11 our way through it, rather than hiring people right now. 12 Kind of -- if there's some discussion about hiring some 13 additional staff for that, if we could figure out how to 14 contract all that out, to me, that's much better, mid-budget 15 year. It kind of -- rather than hiring people, and figure 16 out where we're going long-term. That's kind of why I said 17 by the end of next budget, we have a real long-term plan in 18 effect. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Give us a handle on kind of what 20 we're having to do. It will adjust based on the market. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it wouldn't be a contract, 22 or maybe -- obviously, we'd talk with the County Attorney. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Monthly basis. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monthly basis. If we decide we 25 need to go somewhere else, we could -- we could do it. But 3-9-15 wk 32 1 this just gives us some ideas as to price if we want people 2 out there for those various functions. But -- but, you know, 3 we're renting it. You know, after we have some time -- I 4 mean, we are getting where the money's coming from in the 5 budget. When we rent it, we do get revenue. We're getting 6 $2,000 for the whole facility, so we're getting $2,000 of 7 revenue in. So, you know, if you have to pay $500 or $600 8 out, so be it. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We've got that elephant; we 10 got to feed it. 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, I think, here again, 12 the tables and chairs is what we run into, just time-wise. 13 We first started talking about with the first events that, 14 "Here's our setup," you know. But everybody wants the tables 15 placed different, and I -- the setup of the private parties 16 isn't taking any time -- or very little time, because 17 Maintenance rolls out the racks of chairs, rolls out the 18 racks of tables. They're put out there, and you set them up 19 how you want them. We've asked them put them back up on the 20 racks, and that's where we're running into -- where we can 21 control that. We know what it's going to cost. If they 22 don't put tables and chairs up, we can hold that out of the 23 deposit. We'll make our rental agreement that if tables and 24 chairs are not -- you know, if the tables are not, for the 25 lack of a better word, bused and cleaned, and they're not 3-9-15 wk 33 1 properly put back up on the racks, you will be assessed a 2 charge of $100 per hour for that, and we'll increase the 3 deposit, hold that out of the deposit. Just as we -- as I 4 would do with any rental property I have. If I had to send a 5 crew there to haul off furniture and everything else that 6 they had junked and left, I'm holding that out of the 7 deposit. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So, I mean, we can account 10 for that kind of cost within just how we structure deposits, 11 how we structure future rental rates. The ones that are 12 existing -- 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Can't change that. 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, we may not can change 15 it, but we do have a deposit. We can let them know, "You're 16 supposed to put the tables and chairs up. If you don't, 17 that's part of your cleaning deposit." 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: I'm just wondering, with all this 21 figuring and stuff, and then them not living up to what 22 they're doing, would it be better to just say $500 mandatory 23 cleanup fee, and that's it, period? No options. We'll put 24 the chairs up; y'all get out. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'm looking at just cutting 3-9-15 wk 34 1 down on labor. And, I mean, -- 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Probably preserve the 4 equipment that way. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- if it were my family and 6 stuff like that, I think everybody would do it because they 7 wouldn't want to give up that money. But not every family's 8 like that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, just while 10 we're still talking about stuff, I understand where the 11 Sheriff's going. We do have a situation where the lease 12 agreements -- if people say they're going to have 500 or 200, 13 whatever they say, and they double it or whatever, I think 14 it's in the contract that we can go after them for the money. 15 But it sure is -- I anticipate that would be very hard to 16 collect. We'd have to sue them or threaten and all that. 17 And I don't know if there's a way to -- that we could 18 strengthen that -- I'm looking at the County Attorneys for 19 this one -- strengthen that, or -- you don't want to get such 20 a big deposit you can't do anything, but how do we solve that 21 problem? And that goes right into the -- you know, you 22 getting into the whole liquor issue, which is -- Rusty 23 probably can go into more. But when you get into having 24 licensed bartenders, how far are you going to push that? Can 25 people bring -- you know, someone off the street walk into 3-9-15 wk 35 1 the party there bringing a fifth of vodka with them? I mean, 2 where do we -- how do we control that type of abuse? 3 MS. STEBBINS: With security that's out there now, 4 you -- do y'all see what's happening? Or is it -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's actually a nightmare. 6 What you have happen -- what officers have to be careful of, 7 I know like this last one, there were supposed to be 400 or 8 500; ended up being over 1,000. Then Tim found out, I think, 9 during the night. Tim said, "Well, run them out; there's too 10 many." Well, you know, the issue -- and I don't blame him 11 for saying that. The issue you have with that, officers are 12 working off-duty, so they're actually working for the person 13 that's putting on that -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- party, okay? And the other 16 thing is, but officers are still peace officers. If you just 17 run out a bunch that very well may be too intoxicated or 18 whatever, and you just shut it down and get rid of them, and 19 they end up getting out on Highway 27 and having a wreck, you 20 know, the lawsuits are going to go after both sides. They're 21 going to go after the party, and they're going to go after 22 this county, 'cause it's deep pockets, and 'cause the County 23 ran them out, okay? So, I think you've got to be real 24 cautious on however that's answered. I'll let the County 25 Attorneys deal with that. But the other issue that I 3-9-15 wk 36 1 think -- and what I've heard in talking to a former T.A.B.C. 2 agent, what a lot of them do is they end up making them have 3 a licensed bartender. There is no B.Y.O.B. It doesn't mean 4 they can't give away alcohol. They can still give away 5 alcohol; it doesn't have to be sold. They don't have to have 6 a license there to do it. But that licensed bartender has 7 legal responsibilities and liabilities on them on serving. 8 It still has to be served by that licensed bartender. I 9 think the ag -- I mean, the stock show may do some now. They 10 don't just bring it in, drink whatever they want. 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: At our stock show events, 12 there are T.A.B.C. bartenders. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, they're licensed 14 bartenders, but it's given away. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's given away. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So you don't have to have 17 the -- the, quote, license. That's how some of them handle 18 some of that kind of stuff, is in the B.Y.O.B., because we 19 were having people coming in with stuff carried under both 20 arms. They were bringing kegs in. They were doing 21 everything, okay? That was a -- 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Just get you another deep pocket to 23 join us. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's exactly what's 25 going to happen with the lawsuits, because -- and T.A.B.C., 3-9-15 wk 37 1 what they do is, if there's an issue that comes back -- say 2 there's an accident and somebody's killed. That off-duty 3 officer is named in that lawsuit that T.A.B.C. files against 4 that -- because that officer is also working for them at that 5 time. So, then you've got the deep pockets on both sides. 6 You've got them and the County that's going to be drug into 7 those. 8 MS. STEBBINS: I don't know how to police that. We 9 don't know how many people are there until someone says, "Oh, 10 there are too many." Maybe that's the day after, or in the 11 middle of the night. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Per patron. 13 MS. STEBBINS: Pardon? 14 JUDGE POLLARD: Count them coming in the door, and 15 however many you got times $20 or something. 16 MS. BAILEY: Getting money out of people after an 17 event is much more difficult than giving you -- 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Here's what all you're 19 running into. I'm not an attorney, and I'm not a law 20 enforcement, but from my years out there, if you're -- any 21 type of charging per person that has alcohol there, you get 22 into a license, whether you're selling it or not. And the 23 way it's been explained, like with the fundraising dinner at 24 the stock show, cause we sell tickets, and the ticket gets 25 you in for a meal and stuff, and there's drinks there. 3-9-15 wk 38 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say Rusty did not buy a ticket. 2 He could come to the front door and ask for free drinks, and 3 we would have to give him free drinks, because we were 4 selling tickets to get in there. We could cut him off after 5 two, and we don't have to feed him, but we do have to give 6 him the drinks. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't know how you count 8 how many people. That -- you know, it's -- the person that's 9 going to have the party you think is going to -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- be honest most of the time. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- we're not going to bother 13 counting. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can't do that. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Didn't intend to, if they paid for 16 450 and then put it on Facebook. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. And they don't 18 want the extra officers out there at the end that they ended 19 up having to do, which wasn't half as many as should have 20 been there. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: And you had to call people and say 22 at the last second, "Hey, we got too many people out there; 23 get dressed and come on out." 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And what's going to happen is 25 when they have another event like that, you're going to have 3-9-15 wk 39 1 officers that aren't going to work it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but that's the second 3 time in three years that we've had a problem develop. Same 4 family both times. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Same family. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 7 MS. BAILEY: Maybe just ban that family. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I think you've had a lot 9 more than that. It's just the officers have handled them 10 when they've occurred, and on the scene. It's a whole -- 11 MS. STEBBINS: And so if it's something that we 12 can -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- whole lot more than that. 14 MS. STEBBINS: -- prove that they've gone over, you 15 know, exceeded the number -- not by, like, 550 when it should 16 have been 500, but 600 or 700 -- we put in the agreement that 17 they will forego their deposit. If it's determined that they 18 have exceeded the number. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the agreement needs to 20 have a specific provision related to alcohol. You know, I 21 think I'll turn it over to y'all to figure out kind of how to 22 work that. You know, it seems to me -- I will say that as 23 soon as we talked about licensed T.A.B.C. people to serve, I 24 got probably half a dozen phone calls. "Does that mean I 25 can't have a beer at stock show?" Or, you know, in their 3-9-15 wk 40 1 cooler? So I think, you know, you probably need to have -- 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And this where B.Y.O.B. comes 3 in. Where do -- if you got the roping, the stock show, 4 what-have-you, I mean, is it team roping that's going on 5 every second weekend? 6 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And they've got it out in 8 their ice chest in their truck? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to have 10 probably over 100 people, over 50 people, some kind of a 11 break that over that amount, you have to have a licensed 12 T.A.B.C. -- 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well, I mean, that's going to 14 be any event, then. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is it a youth event center or 16 not? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or serving -- 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's a youth event center. 19 But let's be honest; our neighbors in Fredericksburg sell it 20 at any youth activity that goes on. 21 MS. BAILEY: It seems to me if we're going to 22 invite these professionals that manage these kinds of 23 facilities to come talk to us, they would probably have some 24 very good ideas of answers to all of these questions. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good point. 3-9-15 wk 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good point. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I don't care if we do; 3 everybody knows they do. I mean, the Fair Association sells 4 it at anything that goes on out there, including the stock 5 show. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- and the other thing 7 that's kind of also -- this might help some of this, and I 8 think from a -- a liability standpoint, I think we need 9 security cameras out there in the building and outside. I 10 think that that would not necessarily, you know, hook up with 11 your system, Sheriff. I'm just more -- as an example, maybe 12 it was kids, who knows? Well, somebody damaged a trailer at 13 the stock show. You know, probably kids, guessing. Did some 14 damage to the prizewinning trailer. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Ag mechanics trailer. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the landscaping. There's 17 one flower bed, someone went around and stomped every plant. 18 And they're probably going to come back. They'll probably 19 come back, but there's other things. I mean, unfortunately, 20 that kind of stuff happens. And I think if we could have a 21 couple of cameras -- I don't know how much they cost, looking 22 at budget, some cameras to put out there. And maybe -- 23 JUDGE POLLARD: They cost a lot. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you're going to put cameras 25 that can identify things, it's going to cost you in the 3-9-15 wk 42 1 hundreds of thousands. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll tell you that, because 5 I've had some where we've had antennas broke off cars, and 6 overheads damaged sitting next to ours, and you can't I.D. 7 them. We've got $100,000 cameras, okay? If it's at night, 8 it's going to cost you. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On CSI, they do. (Laughter.) 10 MR. BOLLIER: They can see everything on CSI. 11 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Game cameras. 12 MR. BOLLIER: My thing is we need more lighting in 13 that parking lot all the way around. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I mean, we need -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jeannie, now you know why I 17 said I don't want just capital investments; I want to see 18 maintenance and operation. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: I think we need lighting, and I 20 think we do need cameras, and I think we need the quality 21 cameras that we can identify people. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it may take time to get 23 there, but I think if you have that, that also solves 24 problems on property damage. And looking at the provision on 25 here, I think we need to really look at expanding that. We 3-9-15 wk 43 1 have a nicer facility than we did when we wrote this. 2 There's a lot of things, like someone taking a marker on one 3 of those walls, and it's a big problem. I mean, I liken 4 this -- kind of renting that facility as kind of similar to 5 renting a car. You go around and notch off, "Hey, it's in 6 good shape. If there's a dent on it, you're paying for it." 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Women use lipstick on walls. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, you know, there's 9 one function in the show barn. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: In addition to marker. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody took off all these 12 little "Do not drink the water" signs. 13 MR. BOLLIER: And took off the men's room sign. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, people do that 15 sometimes, unfortunately. Just the price of having a public 16 building. But I think the property damage language needs to 17 be strengthened a little bit in here, and maybe in bold. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think Ilse has a good idea. 19 If we can get these other folks to come down to give us their 20 ideas on how to market, manage and operate, -- 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: We can sit here for -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- it would be a very good 23 thing. 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- a long time and not 25 accomplish anything. 3-9-15 wk 44 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And then -- but at least you 3 pick some people's brains. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Precisely. They've been in 5 this picture show a lot. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sounds like we got five 8 novices. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you're going to need 10 to have not necessarily security. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: They've been doing this for quite a 12 while; they've addressed these problems before. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 JUDGE POLLARD: All these things we're talking 15 about, the property damage stuff, they got some ideas on it. 16 They know how to handle it. We can get ideas from them, too. 17 MS. HARGIS: Can I ask a question? 'Cause I'm -- I 18 don't -- how much do we charge for a wedding, Jody? 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: Depending on the amount of people, 20 $1,500 to $2,000. 21 MS. HARGIS: And how much is the deposit? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: Just a $300 cleaning deposit. 23 MS. HARGIS: That's it. You know that our electric 24 bill was $9,000 for the month of February? 25 JUDGE POLLARD: For when? 3-9-15 wk 45 1 MS. HARGIS: The month of February. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't surprise me. 3 That's also the cold, probably. It was a cold, wet month. 4 MS. HARGIS: But last year it was 4,100. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 6 MS. HARGIS: It's doubled. So, not only do we need 7 to cover all these problems, but you got a huge electric bill 8 out there with that huge room. Hopefully, maybe somebody 9 will come and give us a wall, and that will cut down on 10 people inviting -- the facility right now is so big, guys, 11 that they see how big it is, and they're going to invite more 12 people. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: I really feel we need to raise all 14 of them. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I think so too, just to help us with 16 the electric bill. 17 MS. HARGIS: My cousin just paid 2,500 for a 18 facility that's not even a quarter of the size, and they had 19 to be in and out in the same day. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem with 21 raising it. I think it's too cheap, to me. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. They -- it's a brand new 23 facility right there in Georgetown, and they paid $2,500, and 24 we couldn't get in until that morning to decorate. And they 25 had to be out by midnight. 3-9-15 wk 46 1 JUDGE POLLARD: $4,500? 2 MS. HARGIS: 2,500. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: 25. 4 MS. HARGIS: That didn't include the deposit or 5 anything. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Did they have employees there 7 during the event? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, that's -- your security 10 is not necessarily the security. The damage and the taking 11 care of the facility, that's where you need employees. You 12 need employees. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract person. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or a contract person. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you don't want just one. 16 That facility is too big. You need -- what I've been saying, 17 I think you need a parks and recreation department inside 18 this county with employees that do shift work, where you can 19 have three or four employees out there during those events 20 that can help monitor what's going on. That's going to have 21 to be reflected in the cost. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: How soon can we get these 23 people down? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can look at them, but 25 their cost is going to run you about the same when you start 3-9-15 wk 47 1 looking at it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it costs the same, I'd 3 rather go with another company. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I would too. 5 MR. BOLLIER: I only have one more thing to say on 6 this, and then we can wait till we talk to these people. But 7 as long as you have private parties out there, the damage -- 8 the damage is going to be more than you want to deal with. 9 That's what I'm going to tell you. Like, right now the 10 bottom of those walls, we're going to have to paint them by 11 the end of the year if we keep -- if it keeps going the way 12 it's going. 13 MS. HARGIS: I would think so. 14 MR. BOLLIER: They're just going to get damaged. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you're using it -- 16 MR. BOLLIER: You got to paint that whole building. 17 You got to paint that whole inside of that new hall. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you have -- if you have the 19 Brangus Association there every week, you're going to have to 20 do the same thing. If you use it every week, we're going to 21 have to have major cleaning and maintenance of that building. 22 It's not the private parties that are driving it. They may 23 be a little bit harder on it. 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's the use. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the use. People are going 3-9-15 wk 48 1 to go up to that, lean against that wall and put the back of 2 their foot up against it; you're going to get dirt on it. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Just the nature of the beast. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's the same with any -- 6 whether it's private or public or anything. If it gets used, 7 it wears out. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think, going along with 9 the Judge, I mean, I have -- you know, I have no problem 10 raising the fees right now, you know, $500, $1,000. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: This is on new contracts. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: New contracts. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And in addition, on new 15 contracts, raise the cleaning and the deposit and some of 16 those other amounts. I think, you know, -- 17 JUDGE POLLARD: I think so, too. 18 MS. BAILEY: We probably have to put that on the 19 agenda for approval, though. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have it under the 21 agenda item that's on there. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think so too. Yeah, it's -- 23 MS. BAILEY: You can't take action in a workshop. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- modifying lease rates or 25 other matters related to the operation of Hill Country Youth 3-9-15 wk 49 1 Event Center. Yeah, 1.14. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's -- 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. It's going to eat us up if 5 we don't. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We have $6 million worth of 8 new facilities out there. Let's take care of them. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Man, it's just eating us up. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are the numbers, and 11 where do we go? 1,000? 1,500? Where? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't have it; I just -- 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Right now, including tables 14 and chairs, 250 -- up to 250 is $1,500. 251 to 400 people, 15 it's 2,000. Each additional 100 people is $200. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, what do you recommend they 17 go to? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd go to $2,000. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'd go two, three, and -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3,500. Or I wouldn't go each 21 additional 100 people; I'd just go to 4,000 or 3,000, some 22 fixed number. 23 MS. HARGIS: I agree. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three numbers. Then you're not 25 arguing with people whether you have 101 or 99 people. 3-9-15 wk 50 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, on the -- oh, I see what 2 you're saying. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: 401, it would be four? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Change that up. Forget 5 this. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Two and three? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd probably go two, three, and 8 35. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: I like this. I feel a lot better 10 about this. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 35 is over 400. Whatever the 12 number is over 400 is 3,500. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, 3,500. 14 MS. HARGIS: And the deposit to five? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The deposit's $500. Cleaning 16 deposit. 17 MS. STEBBINS: And maybe if you have someone who's 18 out there kind of monitoring the facility during the event, 19 if they're -- if it's -- or we can put it in the agreement 20 that maybe we get a credit card on file, and so that if it's 21 over that 250, they get charged the next -- the next level of 22 rental, or the next level in the lease. So, they agree to 23 stay within the 250. If they go over, we'll bill them for 24 the -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either a credit card or check. 3-9-15 wk 51 1 MS. HARGIS: That's what they do at hotels, and 2 that would -- that way we would get our money if you had a 3 credit card. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: By credit card, you get paid. Now, 5 a check -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's the cleaning? 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: I just have a question. I know 9 we'll go up on these rates. We also talked about adding a 10 cleaning fee. Are you -- then if it's up to 250 people, a 11 private party is going to be $2,500? The 2,000 plus the 500 12 cleaning? Or are you including -- 'cause you really upped it 13 enough to pay for the cleaning fee, is all you've done. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we upped it there, but 15 we just raised the cleaning deposit to 500. 16 MS. GRINSTEAD: Just the cleaning deposit; they get 17 that back. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Cleaning and 19 setup/take-down, and the whole bill -- it's not just a 20 cleaning deposit. It's a -- take down the chairs, put them 21 back, clean them, put them on the racks, the whole bit. 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: I understand. What I'm saying is 23 that you really have not gone up on your price, because what 24 you've added is what it's going to cost us to clean it every 25 week with the people we're contracted with, so that's -- I'm 3-9-15 wk 52 1 just saying -- I just want to point that out. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: You guys paying much attention to 3 the time she spends out there showing that to people and 4 talking to them? 5 MR. BOLLIER: She's trying to tell you to go up 6 another $500 somewhere. 7 MS. HARGIS: 'Cause you basically still have a 8 deposit; you're just going to give it back. So, if you want 9 to hold onto the cleaning fee, then you need -- you're going 10 to have a $300 deposit, but a $250 fee for putting the chairs 11 up? 12 MR. BOLLIER: In the -- in the contract that we 13 have with Catie right now, okay, if she has to spend a lot of 14 time cleaning the walls, it goes to $770, okay? Instead of 15 the 430. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: What that is, that's where it 17 comes out there. 18 MR. BOLLIER: We need to go up to cover that $770. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Take it out of the deposit. 20 MR. BOLLIER: Yes. But that $770 is what she's 21 trying to tell you, because we need to go up another $500 to 22 cover that. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think either way you look at 24 it, you're going to have to clean. The $500 should be a 25 cleaning fee, not a deposit. 3-9-15 wk 53 1 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want to put a $350 3 damage deposit down, put a $350 damage deposit, then give it 4 back. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's not -- if they don't get 6 it back, it's not a deposit. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I mean, that's what I'm 8 talking about. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what he's saying. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You didn't hear that part. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the rate's going up. I 12 think we -- Jody, does that incorporate the cleaning charge 13 that we know we're going to have or not? 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: But she's right. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: If the cleaning charge is $770, I 16 don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but if it's -- 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: Won't be that often. 19 MR. BOLLIER: That's only when they got to clean 20 the walls. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER REEVES: But if we've got to clean the 23 walls because of, like, a month ago, -- 24 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I'm saying. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- that's where it comes out 3-9-15 wk 54 1 of here. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Comes out of the deposit. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Can we raise that deposit? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think under the cleaning 5 deposit, we ought to change that to cleanup and damage 6 deposit. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: And I like the idea of a credit 8 card on record, get something like that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask a question? It's 10 real personal. How soon can we get that group down here to 11 ask them a bunch of questions? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what Ilse said a while 13 ago. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think pretty quick, hopefully 15 at our next meeting. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You might be able -- you 17 know, if you get them down here pretty quick, you can ask 18 these exact questions, too. We're thinking way too damn much 19 here, man. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll find out. I'll let 21 Jody -- 22 JUDGE POLLARD: These things are eating us up. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want more money. I want 24 more money if I'm going to have to sit here and think. 25 (Laughter.) 3-9-15 wk 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll let Jody know tomorrow 2 when they can schedule it. I mean, if that's on our next 3 Commissioners Court -- I'd like to do it in the afternoon and 4 have a workshop again at our next Commissioners Court. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we all have to meet with 6 them? I thought y'all were going to meet with them, and 7 then -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think have them come down, 9 you give them some preview, and then have it at the same 10 time, you know. Preview and have a workshop. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: See what they're talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess if we -- 14 JUDGE POLLARD: What's not available there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, should we do it on a 16 special day for a workshop in the afternoon? So we can -- 17 Bob and I can meet with them in the morning. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Show them the facility, then 20 come in that afternoon and talk to them. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think if you'd give them a 24 list of issues that we need to have -- address. 25 MS. BAILEY: I think you could probably just ask 3-9-15 wk 56 1 them to review the minutes of this Commissioners Court item. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wouldn't do that to 3 anybody. 4 MS. BAILEY: They would know what questions we 5 have. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could have a workshop 7 over at Buzzie's. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: We'll end up in workshops six days 10 a week. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MS. GRINSTEAD: Just in the meantime, can I at 13 least say -- maybe get a court order that we are not booking 14 private parties until further notice? Because I've got 15 people -- we book a year in advance. I've got people 16 interested in February-March of next year, and I've basically 17 said, "We're having a workshop. I'll give you current rates, 18 but I cannot send a contract." 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for doing what 20 you're saying. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll do that. And I think we 22 could -- I hate to raise rates twice. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I agree. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. Yeah, let's just hold off. 25 MS. GRINSTEAD: If I'm not -- 3-9-15 wk 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not doing private parties, it's 2 not going to be an issue. Two weeks, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I like that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Good point. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to give her a 8 court order? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as he goes back into 10 session. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: We are back into session now, okay? 12 Back into open session. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where have we been? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In a workshop. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: We were in a workshop. Now we're 17 back into open session, okay? 18 (The workshop was adjourned at 12:40 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-9-15 wk 58 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of March, 2015. 8 9 REBECCA BOLIN, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3-9-15 wk