1 1 2 3 4 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 5 Special Session 6 Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7 9:00 a.m. 8 Commissioners' Courtroom 9 Kerr County Courthouse 10 Kerrville, Texas 78028 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: TOM POLLARD, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action to reconsider and/or rescind 4 Court Order #35494 which allows the Master Naturalists to use a portion of 5 the courthouse square for a Pollinator Garden. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 30 7 action on butterfly area for Flat Rock Park. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. It's Tuesday, March 2 the 22nd, 2016, and it's about 1:02 p.m., and the Kerr 3 County Commissioners' Court is in session, special 4 session. Only one item on the agenda today, 1.2 -- 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: No, Sir; there's 6 actually two items, Judge. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Is there an addendum to it? 8 Somebody gave the one -- nobody gave me the 1.1. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we try to keep 10 you in the dark, that's what we do. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: Item 1.1 consider, discuss 12 and take appropriate action to reconsider and/or rescind 13 the Court Order Number 35494 which allows the Master 14 Naturalists to use a portion of the courthouse square 15 for a pollinator garden. Commissioner Baldwin, 16 Precinct 1. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Sir, thank 18 you very much. Of course everybody understands that we 19 voted last week to allow the butterfly program to set up 20 out there in an particular area of the courthouse lawn, 21 and I was very uncomfortable about that. And so in the 22 meantime I have gone out there and dug around. And I 23 remember -- I think it was the time a year and a half 24 ago or so, when we planted new grass out there, and we 25 were digging around trying to get that grass planted, 4 1 and I remember a lot of electrical lines under there as 2 well as water lines, under that ground. And it just 3 dawned on me that it would be a foolish thing for us to 4 do that. 5 So last week when I voted to approve it, I'm 6 here to confess that I had made a mistake with -- well, 7 that's the first mistake in 40 years, and so -- and that 8 is so important, I think that I wanted to bring it back 9 and let's get it straight and let's do this thing right. 10 So there's two -- there's two issues. One 11 is the area that we've chosen out there is -- it's 12 unsafe Number 1, with all those lines under there, and 13 number 2, I am not still not totally convinced 14 courthouse square is the place to have one of these 15 things. 16 So I understand that my good friend next 17 door to me here has somewhat of an plan -- was it you? 18 I think it's him. And that has somewhat of an plan, so 19 I'm going to move, Judge, that we rescind that court 20 order and I think it was 35494. 21 JUDGE POLLARD: 35494. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I 23 said. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So there's no mistake 5 1 there at all. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: Pretty close. Okay is 3 there a second on that motion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: It's been moved and seconded 6 that the Court Order Number 35494 be rescinded. At this 7 point are there any comments or discussion about it? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Discussion. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Discussion, all right. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's see, several 11 weeks ago when Miss Lienhard and some of the other folks 12 came in, and discussed interest, discussed the need for 13 something like this, we said well, there could be two 14 types of facilities, one very small where the public can 15 see it and see the benefits of such a facility as this, 16 and hopefully it would take hold and people could put in 17 their own yards three foot by three foot or whatever, 18 you know, something very small, which would also help 19 the cause. And we said on the courthouse square where a 20 lot of people see it be a good thing, perhaps. 21 And with that and I'm going to jump to the 22 second thing we said and maybe a larger one at Flat Rock 23 Park or some place the County has, you know, that's out 24 of sight, but maybe a larger area to see how effective 25 that is. 6 1 On the first one Miss Lienhard and Tim were 2 to select a place that would be appropriate. I didn't 3 get involved or anything like that. I figured those two 4 people could probably figure out what would be visible, 5 Tim could also, and then bring it back to the Court. 6 So I assumed that Tim, our maintenance man, 7 dutifully looked at that, and if there is certainly -- 8 you know, if there are lines underneath there, forget 9 it, you know, it's not worth it. We don't want to do 10 that. There's probably other places that can serve 11 that, it doesn't have to be a large area to do it. So 12 if there's another place, and we probably can't put it 13 on this agenda since this was just for rescinding that 14 order. I would assume that that's correct, is it not, 15 Miss County Attorney? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reconsider. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Reconsider, and/or rescind. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, reconsider. So 19 we might reconsider the location, and if that's the 20 case, and with the objective of having something that's 21 visible to the public, where they can -- a lot of people 22 can see it, but also doesn't detract from courthouse 23 appearance, which is kind of hurting a bit, okay. 24 Further hurts in the appearance, then I would ask that 25 Tim and some of the folks that are here today find an 7 1 appropriate place to do it. 2 And Tim, perhaps in a place where there's 3 not underground electrical stuff. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, Sir. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that would be my 6 comment on the thing. I don't have any problem 7 rescinding what was there, unless we can just give the 8 Court order and just change the location. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me just add 10 a couple of things. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: We'll get to you in a 12 minute. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A couple of sentences 14 to this thing. Through the years -- Jon and I have been 15 here a long time, and through the years we've had all 16 kinds of things come through that we wanted to -- people 17 wanted to set up out there. The gazebo. There used to 18 be a large water fountain there that was put there by 19 one of the founding families of this County, and the 20 damn thing never worked. So you know, you finally reach 21 a point in life that it doesn't work get rid of it, and 22 that's exactly what we did. 23 And another old-time family wanted to donate 24 this gazebo and that's kind of how that happened, which 25 was a -- to me it was a good trade, you have a gazebo 8 1 that works and a fountain that didn't work. And so we 2 got rid of the fountain. 3 And we've had -- we've had a former County 4 Commissioner that was retired and he was building bird 5 houses. And he wanted to put a lot of bird houses on 6 the front lawn. I don't know if he was going to sell 7 them or what his thoughts were, but we said no to him. 8 And which was sometimes difficult. It is difficult to a 9 lot of people; it wasn't to us. But there's been 10 things like that come along through the years. And lots 11 of them, and you have to -- you have to say no at some 12 point to where the place is cluttered and looks like 13 Laredo, Texas kind of out there. 14 So that's another part of this thing that 15 made me say that I'm not sure courthouse square is a 16 place for this kind of program at all. And my only 17 motion is to rescind that order. And then I understand 18 that you have an agenda item to put it in a new place. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, to look -- no. 20 The original thing was we were going to look at two 21 places. One, more visible to the public and that's what 22 1.1 is about. 1.2 is about the other location where it 23 can be a larger area, but like at Flat Rock Park. But 24 that area had not been defined when we had the previous 25 court order under consideration. So we are here 1.2 is 9 1 to define the second area, which is you know down at 2 Flat Rock Park, but we're not to 1.2 yet. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: You have anything Jon? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, a few things. I 5 mean I think that the -- I'm not opposed to the concept 6 at all. I was opposed to the location and voted against 7 it originally. The location being right there on that 8 corner. I'm not that much opposed to doing it on the 9 courthouse if there is a place that fits. And I think 10 that Flat Rock's a good park. 11 I think one of the good things that came out 12 of this, two members of the community that's been kind 13 of dormant for two years landscaping and come up with a 14 plan for the whole courthouse square. I visited with 15 both of them and they're both ready and willing and want 16 to still work on that project, which has been expanded 17 now to be able to fit into that more. 18 But on the location and a spot, I'm just -- 19 I think it needs to be in a -- not like that location to 20 me which is all of a sudden stick it in the corner of 21 the main courthouse lawn. And it didn't work to me as a 22 good location. Plus I think there is a maintenance 23 issue with it. We have -- this is a couple ideas, over 24 there where the employees park, there's a corner up 25 there where a tree died a couple years ago. There's a 10 1 spot there that to me would make sense. There's an area 2 out here with granite beds that never has looked all 3 that good to me. It's got lantana out there and there's 4 some other stuff that could be -- that could be taken 5 out. That's a location that could work. I think it's 6 needed to, you know, it needs to -- I'm in favor of 7 having it to where someone can see it. Where maybe a 8 little bitty sign to explain why it's there. But I 9 think a big spot out there is not the right spot. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I agree with 11 Jonathan a hundred percent. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But that's my 13 only comment on this. I'm on rescinding and that's why 14 I voted against it, and I still think that's the wrong 15 spot. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. I don't have 17 any issue with anything you said. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: You have anything to say, 19 Bob? 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I voted for it, but I 21 was not aware of the potential electrical problems. Is 22 there electric lines underneath the ground there? 23 MR. BOLLIER: (Shaking head in affirmative 24 manner.) 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And water lines. 11 1 MR. BOLLIER: And water lines. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That would concern me, 3 which I was not aware of it. But just as Commissioner 4 Letz said, I think someplace on the grounds. I hadn't 5 thought about the two locations you mentioned. That way 6 one could be on each side of the courthouse. And 7 perhaps more people could see it and we would accomplish 8 our initial objective to have something here on the 9 grounds. So if there is a problem with the utilities, I 10 feel like it should be rescinded. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, Ma'am. State your 13 name, please. 14 MS. FEST: I'm Brenda Fest, and I'm the 15 president of the Hill Country Master Naturalists, and 16 these fine people here are Kerr County residents and my 17 fellow Master Naturalists, all of them serving in some 18 form or fashion. Lots of voluntary hours from these 19 guys. And this is a project that everybody is excited 20 about. Because as you know the issue of protecting the 21 pollinators is a really important one. And part of what 22 we do is volunteer, but part of that is kind of an 23 educational outreach, so that's why we don't think we 24 can save the Monarchs with one little garden, okay, we 25 know that. But what we want to do and this is what I 12 1 think Commissioner Moser is talking about, is that if 2 you kind of give the idea this is what you can do, so I 3 kind of agree with everything that's been said here in 4 terms of the location. So we got the wrong location. 5 But I think that if we could -- because I 6 remember back in February, the Resolution that was 7 passed was that we would have something on the 8 courthouse grounds, and something somewhere else. And 9 so I think the Flat Rock Park is wonderful, and I think 10 it's a great project, but it really is different. 11 And so one of the things that I have in 12 talking with someone yesterday, she said well it's 13 really important that we make -- we have public 14 awareness. But what's even more important is that 15 through that public awareness, we have the most 16 environmental impact. And so that's the reason why I 17 think having, even if it's a small little piece, the 18 signage, and the idea that Kerr County thinks it's 19 important and they're partnering with the Master 20 Naturalists. So that's why we're here. We're not here 21 to yell and scream and argue and disagree. We're here 22 because we're one of y'all. And we really think it's a 23 good -- it's an important initiative. And you see 24 cities all over the country where mayors are signing 25 proclamations, and I can't remember what they call them 13 1 all, but it's important. It's important that the public 2 understands that butterflies are not only pretty, but 3 they're important. Bees don't just sting people. 4 But it's -- and I think that having Kerr 5 County, I think -- and I really wish Pam could be here, 6 because I remember when she told me this back in 7 December she goes I have this dream of Kerr County being 8 the leader and pollinators. And someone sitting next to 9 here said well good luck with that. I said well you 10 know I think you should pursue it. So she's been 11 working since then trying to kind of get this idea 12 across. 13 I mean when we first came in in February, 14 she made a stack of documents in terms of initiatives 15 and TxDot's mowing practices and all that. So I think 16 that it's something that we would like for y'all to 17 consider. And it doesn't have to be big, but at least 18 have something that is actually in a public place where 19 people can come and say, oh, this is how you can do it, 20 oh, this is what the County thinks is important. So I 21 hope you would still consider that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was the size -- I 23 believe we had talked about it before, and we came up 24 with two by six or something. 25 MS. FEST: I've got the plans here. To tell 14 1 you the truth, I'm not the project coordinator. But 2 you're right, it was large, you know, it was like it was 3 like the corner. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 500 square feet. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500 square feet. 6 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there that much in 8 any of these other places. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we probably don't 10 need that much. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably a little less. 12 MS. FEST: Have any of y'all been to Lady 13 Bird Park in Fredericksburg. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, Ma'am. 15 Gracie Waggener here is one of our 16 volunteers at the Kerrville-Schreiner Butterfly Park. 17 How big is that, do you know? 18 MS. WAGGENER: A hundred and 60 square feet 19 and the -- 20 THE REPORTER: Could you please speak up. 21 MS. WAGGENER: And the garden is 160 by 160. 22 MS. FEST: This is Gracie Waggener. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So and in light of 24 what you're saying, I being we're all on the same page, 25 it's just finding the right location. And Jonathan, 15 1 Commissioner Letz, has looked at courthouse lawn and 2 organization for a long time. And I wouldn't have any 3 issue at all -- Jonathan, you mentioned a place out 4 here, I think was a good idea. But wherever you think 5 would be good would be -- I would fully support. 6 Wherever you think would be good. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean I think I 8 looked for areas where one right now we're having to 9 maintain a bed. And if we get you all to maintain a 10 bed, that's good for us, because we're not very good at 11 maintaining beds, our expertise. 12 MS. FEST: Maybe we can convert that bed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right here the bed with 14 the granite is, to me, you can do whatever you want in 15 that bed. Because I've never liked that bed the way it 16 looks. The only thing you can't do is -- 17 MS. FEST: It can be our bed. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be your bed. The 19 square rocks around the boarder have to stay around here 20 because those are part of the original courthouse that 21 burned. So other than that, you know, I do -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what would be our 23 procedure then we're rescinding a court order, do we 24 modify it? 25 JUDGE POLLARD: No. We rescind it. 16 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Rescind it. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And that's the motion 3 on the floor now, correct? And then we can have another 4 motion to place a location. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is item number 7 2. 8 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. I have a comment 9 on Number 1. I wasn't in favor of the project on the 10 courthouse square at all, and I voted against it. And I 11 don't think it belongs on the courthouse square, because 12 first it creates a problem about precedent, that people 13 -- we're going to have a stream of other people coming 14 in here wanting to use courthouse square for projects 15 that will last a long time and do things. I don't think 16 this is going to be a jumbled -- so I don't want to it 17 to be a jumbled thing, with a lot of different things 18 around. I think it needs to be landscaped real pretty, 19 and without all this other stuff on it. I'm opposed to 20 your project. I think your project is very appropriate, 21 but I don't think it needs to be on the courthouse 22 grounds at all, because of the precedent that it sets. 23 And I can tell you, he mentioned that we're not very 24 good at maintaining -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our flowers. 17 1 JUDGE POLLARD: -- our flower beds. In fact 2 the subject matter came up probably about a year and a 3 half or two years ago, when the flower beds around the 4 courthouse were not being maintained very well. And it 5 didn't look very well, and so I contacted the Master 6 Naturalists and asked them if they would like to 7 maintain them. 8 MS. FEST: The master naturalists or master 9 gardeners. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Master gardeners. 11 MS. FEST: Okay. We're master naturalists. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: I don't know who I talked to 13 at the time, but they went and talked to their board and 14 came back to me and said they didn't want to maintain 15 them. And I said okay that's fine. But it just 16 exhibits how we -- we're not good at maintaining our 17 beds, even the flower beds around the courthouse here. 18 We need to do some things and correct some of that stuff 19 to make it more appealing to the public. 20 But I object to it anywhere on the 21 courthouse ground on the grounds of the precedent it 22 sets. And I would be for your project on another 23 location, on County properties that can be located. I 24 have no problem with that, I think it is an important 25 thing. And I want to emphasize that with you. Okay. 18 1 MS. FEST: I did have -- I forgot one thing 2 that Pam also did, she applied for and obtained a four 3 hundred dollar grant from the Bring Back the Monarchs 4 Program. And that grant money was all -- only for this 5 specific project. So that's money that we will be 6 having to give back, because the deadline for that was, 7 I think, February the 15th. So that's just something 8 else that I should mention. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me comment to what 10 the Judge commented on a little bit. The reason this 11 location, it's not changing. The three plants we have 12 out here are on their list. It's just that right now 13 we're having to maintain it, and it looks kind of 14 jumbled a little bit, so I mean I don't think it's 15 precedent if we let them maintain a bed that we already 16 have in existence. To me you know -- and if it doesn't 17 work to me we're no worse off, we just get rid of the -- 18 you know, continue to maintain it. 19 MS. FEST: And that's the other thing, we're 20 willing to, if you're not happy in what we do it's on us 21 as far as taking it out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't have a 23 problem with them maintaining it; I do have a problem 24 with making a big new bed where I don't think a bed 25 should be. 19 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I still am with 2 Jonathan a hundred percent on this. In just looking at 3 the court order it doesn't say where it's going to be, 4 okay, it just said we can do one. Reading the Court 5 order it just approves Master Naturalists a piece of the 6 Kerrville -- Kerrville County Courtyard only for the 7 pollinator garden with the understanding Master 8 Naturalists and their volunteers are the only ones to 9 take care of and provide the garden after the Kerr 10 county maintenance department clears the grass out of 11 the appropriate area. 12 Well, if the place that Jon is talking 13 about, there's no grass. And saves Tim some work and 14 doesn't have to maintain it. 15 JUDGE POLLARD: Do you know if there are any 16 electrical lines or pipe, you don't know? 17 MR. BOLLIER: There shouldn't be anything 18 there. 19 MS. FEST: In the existing bed? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No; out here. 21 MR. BOLLIER: Right out here. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And it's an existing 23 bed, yeah. 24 MR. BOLLIER: There shouldn't be anything in 25 there. 20 1 JUDGE POLLARD: But you don't know. You 2 think there's -- you think there shouldn't be. Should 3 at least we look into it and check and see. 4 MR. BOLLIER: I can check into it. 5 JUDGE POLLARD: Take a metal detector out 6 there or something. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, Sir. Most of our water 8 comes from -- so there's no sewer -- there should be no 9 sewer or no water or no electricity out there. The only 10 thing that should be there is a old abandon three 11 quarter inch line. It's been abandon for years. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And Mr. Bollier, if 13 you were going to do any digging, I'm sure you will call 14 the appropriate number to check to see if there's any 15 electrical under their, like 1-800-dig. 16 MR. BOLLIER: Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'm sure you would, 18 wouldn't you? 19 MR. BOLLIER: Oh, yes, Sir. Yes. I would 20 make sure that it's clear, yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think to me I 22 think they need to be separate. I think this is to 23 rescind that court order, because that had a backup to 24 it and sign to it, and under the agenda, we can do a 25 second -- a new court order if we choose. 21 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: As we reconsider as 2 part of this item 1.1. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But if the only thing 4 1.2 says -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 1.1. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, 1.1. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Says we can reconsider 8 it. Is that correct? 9 MS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So the motion is to 11 rescind it, if I remember right. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Anybody else 13 want to talk or say anything? 14 MS. FEST: Vern Crawford is one of our board 15 members. And is a former president of the chapter as 16 well. 17 MR. CRAWFORD: And anything that I may speak 18 to here, basically I would like to -- it's real aware 19 that I don't believe the County Commissioners as a whole 20 are familiar with what a treasure within a Master 21 Naturalists this County has. The Hill Country Chapter 22 is one of 44 chapters in the State of Texas, we comprise 23 ten counties. Kerr County is right at the heart and 24 center of it. We meet here every month. We typically 25 have over a hundred -- or often have over a hundred, and 22 1 seldom less than 75 people, both members and members of 2 the community that come each month to the speakers that 3 speak on various topics and points about our Eco system, 4 and the Texas Hill Country. Real quickly I'd like to 5 share with you the mission of the Texas Master 6 Naturalists. This was something that came out of a 7 response to the master gardeners, an organization who is 8 doing an awful lot and continue to do a lot in the way 9 of gardening. Some of the leaders in the parks and 10 wildlife, and state parks commission were inspired to 11 try to model something similar that looked at our 12 natural native areas and they came up with a Master 13 Naturalists Program in Texas, which is now modelled in 14 38 other states have similar programs. 15 We are approximately 17 years old, I think, 16 it's a state organization. The Hill Country chapter was 17 one of the early chapters. We are now about 15 years 18 old, we have over four hundred members in our ten 19 counties which are mostly right here in Kerr County. In 20 Kerr County, I just checked this morning, is 147 21 members. The mission of the Texas Master Naturalists 22 Program is to develop a core of well-informed 23 volunteers -- volunteers to provide education, outreach 24 and service dedicated to the beneficial management of 25 natural areas within their community. It's specific to 23 1 the Hill Country and what we can do and need to do for 2 maintaining the Hill Country, and the Eco systems 3 supported of the quality of life that we all have grown 4 so proud of. 5 To become a Texas Master Naturalists you 6 must -- and in our chapter we go beyond the 40 hours of 7 initial core training, this is like an intensive college 8 course. You must complete that, you must complete three 9 field trips within our area to various ranches and state 10 areas, to become familiar with the geology, the biology, 11 the Eco system, that we're speaking of. 12 In addition to that we are -- remember I 13 said volunteers, to be a master naturalist, you must be 14 voluntary, that's what it's about. 40 hours a year is 15 the minimum. The projects that we take on and in our 16 area we have over 80 approved projects. These are all 17 public projects. These are not benefitting individual 18 ranches per se. Everything Master Naturalists does has 19 to be an approved project. So you've got this core of 20 147 Kerr County residents among our 400 members. And we 21 spread out and it's not specific, too, you'll have 22 people who are involved with the butterfly, the 23 pollinator garden, that's part of -- only a part of the 24 Lady Bird Johnson, but it is in a very public spot, next 25 to the swimming pool, and I invite -- I don't think any 24 1 of you -- have any of you been to the pollinator garden 2 there? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 4 MR. CRAWFORD: It was established about four 5 years ago. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: May I interrupt just 7 for a second. We've got a couple of agenda items here 8 that we need to get to. Okay. 9 MR. CRAWFORD: Certainly. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I mean I appreciate 11 everything you're saying, but I think probably to have a 12 tutorial right now, is -- 13 MR. CRAWFORD: Right. I just wanted 14 basically -- I just wanted to let you know that you have 15 an opportunity to partner with -- regardless of how this 16 comes out, you have Master Naturalists here in Kerr 17 County that are doing all kinds of things to help put 18 Kerr County on the map. As being one of the finest 19 parts of the country that you could be. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I personally 21 appreciate literally everything that's said, and I'm 22 still learning a lot from you and the other people, and 23 Miss Lienhard. 24 MR. CRAWFORD: And I -- I invite you to come 25 to our monthly -- we have a monthly meeting next Monday. 25 1 So this is on deer waste, this particular one, but I 2 invite any of you to come. Everything Master 3 Naturalists do is public, and invite you to find out a 4 little bit more about so that you can engage us, and 5 then when you got some kind of project you can go you 6 know what, we have a organization that has that chapter 7 that's outstanding within the state that we can call on 8 to help us accomplish these goals. So I see it as an 9 opportunity. 10 And I think the -- what you were just 11 getting ready to do, I didn't mean to interrupt the 12 agenda, but just emphasize to you you're going to -- 13 you're not talking about somebody who's going to take on 14 a project and dump it on you. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Master naturalists really do 17 have a good project right out near where the 4-H -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's gardeners. 19 MS. FEST: That's master gardeners. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: That's a good place though, 21 out there, and it is a very visible place for the public 22 to see it. And their project could be very, very near 23 out there somewhere and would accomplish their purpose 24 that they want for a lot of people to see it. And so 25 they could put in another one -- put in one out there, 26 1 and I think that's where it oughta be instead of on the 2 courthouse square. I firmly object to anything on the 3 courthouse square. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we get to vote on 5 that, right? 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah, I know. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we get back to my 8 rescinding? 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. All right, there's a 10 motion on the floor. Those in favor of the motion 11 signify by raising your right hands. Those opposed 12 raise your right hand, and that's me. Okay. That was 4 13 to 1. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was to rescind it. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: You just voted against 16 rescinding the order. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Oh. Okay -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right -- 19 JUDGE POLLARD: -- I'll change that. I'll 20 change that and I'll vote for it. I was so anxious to 21 vote against the thing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or you could call us 23 in next Tuesday and we can try it again. 24 JUDGE POLLARD: I didn't call this. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. I did. 27 1 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. All right. I have 2 next item on the agenda is 1.2 -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we're still on 1.1. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Reconsider -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even though the Judge 6 may not talk to me for a week. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Might not. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make an order -- or a 9 motion to allow the master naturalists to use these two 10 granite beds outside on the east side of the courthouse, 11 and the granite to use as a pollinator garden. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I second. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Been moved and seconded that 14 to put it out here wherever he indicated, the pollinator 15 program. Is it going to be a size to this. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It two granite beds 17 right there, and those granite beds. One on each side 18 of the sidewalk. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One on each side of 20 of the sidewalk. And there's one that has that big 21 cacti. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can go, in my 23 opinion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How dare you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they want to leave it 28 1 they can. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Are there any 3 other specifications that need to be about it? That we 4 got the size and location, is there anything else that 5 needed to be stated? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I just said they can 7 work with maintenance and make sure there's nothing in 8 there that's going to -- water lines, electric lines and 9 all of that, check that. And other than that, the two 10 granite beds they can redo those beds how they see fit. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are y'all familiar 12 with the area that he's talking about? You oughta put 13 your -- cast your eyeball on it before you have -- 14 before we do it. There's one -- the one side on the 15 other side, people walk through there, and if you want 16 people walking through your butterfly deal. I don't -- 17 there's a trash can there actually, and there's a big 18 cacti, if you take it out we'd really make somebody else 19 mad, I don't know who yet -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- but they would 22 appear. 23 MS. FEST: Do you have any idea what the sun 24 cover is? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the cactus is full 29 1 sun. There's a couple crepe myrtles in it. And an 2 outer area and it goes into a little bit of shady area. 3 MS. FEST: If there are some non native 4 plants in there and we would like to remove them, would 5 that be okay? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's fine with me. And 7 there are some. 8 MS. FEST: Okay. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. That motion's 10 been made and there was a second, is that correct? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Any further discussion or 13 comments? If not, those in favor of the motion signify 14 by raising your right hands. Those opposed raise your 15 right hands. It passes three to two. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Get 17 them -- get them butterflies flying. I like the bees. 18 I tell you what I was mowing my neighbor's yard the 19 other day, his wife died, so I'm out there mowing his 20 yard and I got my riding lawn mower, I have -- I'm not 21 about to push one anymore, and a monarch came by my head 22 and I could actually feel the breeze from his wings, I 23 mean it had a wingspan like this. I've never seen one 24 that big in my life. I just caught him out of the 25 corner of my eye. And I said whoa, what was that. But 30 1 they are certainly beautiful, but I like bees. I'm a 2 bee guy. I like what bees do. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. You want to go 4 on to 1.2 then? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, please. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Item 1.2 on the 7 agenda -- got two 1.1's in front of me. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Here you go. 9 JUDGE POLLARD: Is to consider, discuss and 10 take appropriate action on butterfly area for Flat Rock 11 Park. Does anybody want to make a motion on that? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'd like to make a 13 motion. I'd like to discuss it for a second. For the 14 second part of the objective was to have a larger area 15 for the butterfly park. I'm not going to go into all 16 the benefits thereof, Tim and I went out yesterday and 17 looked at some areas that one of the areas that has been 18 identified would be at the far east end of the dog run, 19 which is way away, but we also found another place that 20 is better okay, it's out of the way, it's not a place 21 that anybody uses for anything. And Tim, do you have -- 22 do you have a view of -- image of that? 23 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, I do. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's not that big 25 package you just attached, it's some plan. You have 31 1 something that you and I looked at yesterday? Oh, good. 2 Super. I hadn't seen that. 3 MS. FEST: So these are not the things that 4 Pam submitted earlier? 5 MR. BOLLIER: I don't know if y'all can 6 really see it on this one. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Basically where he's 8 showing it -- basically where it is when you cross over 9 the bridge going to the dog run, it's immediately on the 10 the left. It's immediately on the left, and it would be 11 right here, triangle right here. So it's -- it's an 12 area that's -- 13 (Commissioner Moser tapping for order.) 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's an area that's not 15 used for anything. Tim has to mow it, okay. And we 16 looked, stepped it off, and in between trees it would be 17 like 60 feet wide and a hundred feet long, something 18 like that. Plenty of sun. Again, no one uses that, 19 people for the dog runs don't use it, there's is further 20 away. People that fish in that area, they're on the 21 other side of the road and closer to the bridge, so that 22 was the thing that Tim and I came up with would be a 23 good location to do that. And it is fairly good size. 24 And it keeps Tim from mowing the area, nothing has to be 25 done around it. It eliminates some maintenance thereof, 32 1 and I think it would provide a -- and people, there's a 2 lot of people go to and from the dog run, so that they 3 would see it as they come across. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Highly visible, 5 highly visible. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. So I make 7 a motion that we -- with Tim and the master naturalists 8 identify that area and, Tim, to make sure there's no 9 problems with it. And walking through it yesterday 10 didn't appear to be any, and that would be designated as 11 a pollinator garden. That's my motion. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Moved and seconded that the 14 area in the triangle in the photograph be designated as 15 a pollinator garden, is that what the word was? Any 16 further discussion or comment? Yes? 17 MS. FLANAGAN: Could I speak to one of the 18 areas that we look out there with Tim? 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes. 20 THE REPORTER: What's your name, please? 21 MS. FLANAGAN: Lisa Flanagan. Okay. The 22 area that you're talking about is probably a good area 23 also. One of the things that we looked at the day that 24 we met Tim out there was a place that the mudders love 25 to tear up. Now, the thing about this area -- I see you 33 1 shaking your head. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's full of water. 3 MS. FLANAGAN: But that can be remedied. 4 And the thing about it also, it is such an eye sore. 5 You've got kids taking their mud toys out and churning 6 it up on a regular basis. We would like to restore that 7 area, turn it into more of a meadow type of an area. 8 Including the hillside going right up to the road. It's 9 going to take being flattened out, probably going to 10 have to have a little bit of fill, but we can put wild 11 flowers there. And they will be self perpetuating once 12 it's in, nobody will have to do anything. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It would probably take 14 20 truckloads of dirt to fill that. And when you fill 15 it, where's it going to drain? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think the 17 question -- I agree that spot needs to be fixed. It's 18 under the -- Bob and I have looked at it with the 19 overall master plan of that facility, tying in to 20 closing the Riverside Drive, and it needs to be worked. 21 That's exactly why we don't want you to do anything with 22 it right now. Because we're going to go in there and 23 we're going to level that and clean it up, and do stuff 24 at some point. We'll be looking at part of the park 25 master plan as Mr. Moser side said we need to get back 34 1 on our agenda the next couple weeks. 2 MS. FLANAGAN: And how you going to keep 3 those kids and their mud toys out of it? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably boulders around 5 the edge. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And the other part 7 about filling with the floodway, flood plain, it would 8 take a pretty major study by flood plain department 9 before we could add anything with that type -- if you 10 add it there you've got to take it away from another 11 part. So that's why it's going to take a master plan 12 before we can do anything. And that's not Kerr County's 13 rules, that's the floodway rules. So that's kind of 14 where it puts us between the proverbial rock and the 15 hard place. 16 MS. FLANAGAN: Well, maybe when you get to 17 that point you'll remember us as a possible partner for 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a good 20 objective, but I can see it being huge. And you 21 wouldn't probably wouldn't get your pollinator garden in 22 for several years. 23 MS. FLANAGAN: That wouldn't be so much a 24 pollinator garden and -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a different 35 1 subject though, Ma'am. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Different project. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Different project. 4 MS. FLANAGAN: Okay. But keep that in mind. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's do one at a time. 6 I'm simple minded. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: How about the lady in the 8 yellow shirt on the back row? You've been shaking your 9 head no a lot back there. I wanted to know what you 10 have to say. 11 MS. WAGGENER: I have a dog, so I go to the 12 park. I also live across the river from the park. And 13 one thing that would really help is if the park was -- 14 the gates were actually closed at ten o'clock at night 15 like they say the park's closed, because there are cars 16 in there all night long. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: What is your name? 18 MS. WAGGENER: Gracie Waggener. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Gracie Waggener, 20 W-A-G-O-N-E-R? 21 MS. WAGGENER: W-A-G-G-E-N-E-R. They put a 22 lot of extra letters in. But I can tell you because I 23 see the car lights through my windows, there are cars in 24 there all night long, and I was also told if you're not 25 home by one o'clock you're doing something you weren't 36 1 supposed to be doing. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That was the old days. 3 MS. WAGGENER: That was the old days. Well, 4 it still applies in my world, so that would help for one 5 thing. 6 And it would also help -- how often do we 7 have one or two inch rain, not very often. But if you 8 close the gates when there's a one or two inch rain 9 that would stop a whole lot of the trucks. Because you 10 can hear them -- as soon as it stops training you can 11 hear the trucks coming in. And you can hear them 12 tearing up the hill, so -- 13 JUDGE POLLARD: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a good point. 15 We're -- next Monday, we're planned to have on the 16 agenda, right, Tim? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, Sir. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The rules simplified 19 and posted, a sign we're going to present to the other 20 Commissioners saying here's what we recommend be the 21 rules for the parks, and that's one of them, because a 22 lot of people don't know it, okay. And we've been 23 remiss in going to getting those rules posted. 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I'm thinking in 25 the meantime, Commissioner, you call Constable Hicks and 37 1 he probably could check on that for you from time to 2 time. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good idea. 4 MS. WAGGENER: And the meadow -- the meadow 5 part in the back where we walk the dogs, if you just 6 change your mowing policies a little, a little bit, 7 leave an area in the middle, the wildflowers will be 8 back. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, thank you. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: All right, we're going to 11 have to move along now. We got a motion on the floor. 12 It's been -- a motion made and seconded. Those in favor 13 of the motion signify by raising your right hands. It's 14 four zero, unanimous. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I wanted to 16 say that I seconded the motion because this is the right 17 place to put the thing. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good choice. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not out here. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Is there 23 anything further for this agenda? If not -- is there? 24 All right. Then we're adjourned. Thank you very much. 25 * * * * * * 38 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, the Official 4 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the Kerr County 5 Commissioners' Court, do hereby certify that the above 6 and foregoing pages contain and comprise a true and 7 correct transcription of the proceedings had in the 8 above-entitled Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 18th day of April, A.D. 2016. 10 11 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 No. 953 Expiration Date 12/31/2016 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25