1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Special Session 5 Thursday, August 10, 2017 6 3:30 p.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: TOM POLLARD, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action on closure of the Kerr County 4 Juvenile Detention Center. 5 *** Adjourned. 20 6 *** Reporter's Certificate. 21 7 * * * * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. It's Thursday 2 August the 10th, 2017. It's about according to that 3 clock about 3:31 p.m. We have two agendas scheduled 4 this afternoon. One of them is a workshop on budget, 5 and the other is a -- we call it -- refer to them 6 generally as a regular agenda; although, this is not a 7 regular one here this afternoon. I guess it's a special 8 called one today. And I'm going to go through the 9 special column first. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: That's what I was going to 11 request. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. All right, let's get 13 right to work on it. Let's go the item 1.1 consider, 14 discuss and take appropriate action on closure of the 15 Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center. There have been 16 some -- a lot of figures adopted on this, a lot of 17 opinions stated, but there are also some other opinions 18 that have come forward. I was just informed by 19 Mr. Moser got a call from I think it's the 20 superintendent of KISD. Tom, you want to report on 21 that? 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. The 23 superintendent of KISD called the other day, and would 24 bring up the subject something we talked on the other 25 day, but not quantitative budgetary, but collateral 4 1 damage, or of other values considering in the Juvenile 2 Detention Facility. He said that he thought he hoped 3 we'd consider very carefully the fact that we would be 4 taking our juveniles and sending them out perhaps into 5 environments that are not as conducive to rehabilitation 6 as they are if they're kept in this community. And that 7 I think he said he has equivalent, you can verify this, 8 Jason, one and a half equivalent full-time employees 9 dedicated to that facility. 10 MR. DAVIS: That's correct. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But his primary concern 12 was what's best for the kids that have made some wrong 13 decisions, and what is best for them is if they're to 14 keep them here, or is it, you know, there's obviously 15 some advantages in that that are not just quantitative, 16 but budgetary, but keeping them in the community where 17 they live and reside. So anyway, that was his 18 suggestion that we consider something like that as we 19 deliberate this. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I have thought about 22 that very thing. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Go ahead. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Recidivism is what 25 comes to mind. What do we -- what does that look like? 5 1 Got percentages for us? 2 MR. DAVIS: I can tell you that it's going 3 to call for speculation as far as would it have a 4 negative impact on recidivism. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What I mean is how are 6 we doing now? How many of those kids do you see on a 7 regular basis? 8 MR. DAVIS: Good question. And I do want 9 preface it with an explanation of juvenile justice 10 system versus criminal justice system. Criminal justice 11 system you judge recidivism in new offenses. So if I 12 give you an adult offender, and he may commit one 13 offense and have three probation violations, that's 14 still one offense, it would never count in recidivism. 15 In the juvenile system being a civil system 16 that it is, I might have one offense and every probation 17 violation that I brought back before the Court that is a 18 separate and new offense. So you might have one child 19 with four offenses, and that skews the recidivism rates. 20 So I can tell you that the recidivism rate for the State 21 average is about 48 percent for juvenile, and we as a 22 County are right in line with that, probably around 48 23 to 49 percent. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It still means they're 25 not getting the message? 6 1 MR. DAVIS: I would say that that is correct 2 for a certain -- a very, very small percentage. Because 3 what happens is, you know, we're going to have 10 to 4 20 -- at one end we're going to have kids that are never 5 going to be a concern again. It was stub their toe. 6 We've got some in the middle that we focus a lot of our 7 energy on, and we have some on this end that skewed 8 those recidivism numbers so much because that one kid 9 will have so many probation violations. And we're going 10 to have 20 of those kids a year, and that makes the 11 other percentage of that curve, look much worse than it 12 is, because of the way that you count recidivism. 13 I can also tell you the last time that 14 anyone has given the recidivism rates was from TJJD 15 approximately three years ago. Because of the nature 16 and the confidentiality of the juvenile justice it's 17 almost impossible to track unless you're at a state 18 level. You got to have access to all those files to 19 track it. If I want to track it, I would have to make a 20 request from TJJD, and so we don't have anything that's 21 newer than three years old on recidivism anywhere in the 22 state right now. 23 MR. BELEW: Okay. Well, the reason I asked 24 that is because, you know, you want to know if it's 25 doing any good, and how many of these kids are going to 7 1 miss out on their education because they're in and out 2 of there all the time, and how much it really matters to 3 them. If we have the same offenders going through all 4 the time and I'm less worried about it than, you know, 5 seeing their faces and names. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I -- 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Let's address the education 8 issue for just a second. He just indicated that the 9 KISD has one and a half people equivalent working out 10 there. One of them is Cindy Hunt where she's the school 11 teacher for them, and supposedly she teaches pretty good 12 classes for those kids out there, and so as to the issue 13 of the education, I'm not too sure they're missing 14 anything unless they're just one of the hard cases that 15 won't listen at all. Sometimes they don't cooperate, 16 won't do it, and they're going to do that in public 17 school or wherever. There's always going to be people 18 like that in our society, you know, a small percentage 19 of them. The juvenile system here in Kerr County we 20 have what is it about a 140, a 145 average a year? 21 MR. DAVIS: Down to about 120 right now, 22 because the numbers have declined. 23 JUDGE POLLARD: And of those maybe 20 or 25 24 of them are handled by coming to Court. The others the 25 juvenile probation officers handle them themselves with 8 1 kind of an informal contract that's a probation, and 2 they handle it, and those kids he just described as a 3 stub their toe once, and they live up to their 4 agreements and they go on in life. And that's a greater 5 percentage of them, and I never get to see those. They 6 don't come to my Court. 7 Now, the other 20 or 25, they keep coming 8 back and back and back a lot, and it skews the 9 percentages on it. But you need to understand that the 10 juvenile system is not like the adult criminal system. 11 It's designed totally to rehabilitate these kids and to 12 help them. And without giving up, I mean they just 13 don't give up. You work with them and you try to -- you 14 don't have too many successes, but when you do it's very 15 rewarding. And so how do you measure things like that, 16 you know. What kind of value do you put on that. How 17 many have we saved and what is the value of that in 18 terms of our society, you know. That's the question 19 that Tom and the Superintendent have raised. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They're our kids, 21 they're Kerr County kids. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, Sir. And anyway, other 23 thoughts? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just have kind of a 25 general comment without going into the specifics of 9 1 education is that this County and this Commissioners' 2 Court has for many, many years tried to make this 3 Juvenile Detention Facility work. It was handed to us 4 in a very difficult situation through a bankruptcy. In 5 fact we had a lot of difficulty running it, and I say we 6 as the Court over a lot of years funded it at a loss to 7 the taxpayers, because there was a benefit to the youth 8 we felt. We've, I think, been extremely fortunate 9 throughout the period, but it's really the past five 10 years, or three years with Jason has done a phenomenal 11 job of running that facility and Juvenile Probation 12 Department, and I think we from a tax -- from a dollar 13 standpoint and a body standpoint in Commissioners' 14 Court, we have tried to make it work, and we have one -- 15 I think one of the probably best run facilities in the 16 State, but still the financial drag on the taxpayers to 17 me does not justify it, and you know we're looking at 18 about a 350 to 400 hundred thousand dollar savings by 19 shutting the facility down. And I cannot, you know -- 20 every individual is important and we hope to able to 21 help them, but I can't justify spending that kind of 22 money for, you know, the few number of kids that are 23 there when there are other facilities that, you know, 24 you all just talked about. Only 20 percent of them ever 25 get to that point anyway, and these other facilities 10 1 have -- you know are probably close as good if not as 2 good. And I think that that's an option -- you know, I 3 just have to go with the decision that we have looked 4 at, I guess, seriously closing it probably this is the 5 third time, and I think it's the right thing to do. 6 JUDGE POLLARD: Bob. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Well first, and I 8 think I've told you this, Mr. Davis, it is not a 9 reflection on you or anybody in your department. I know 10 it has some implications, and very deep implications. 11 But as Commissioner Letz said if we look and we're 12 keeping it open and these are numbers we've talked 13 about, and not Bob's numbers, but what we've visited, 14 roughly to keep it open for the portion that comes from 15 Kerr County is costing about a million dollars a year. 16 Am I in the ballpark on that? 17 MR. DAVIS: Yes, Sir, I think that's fair. 18 Yes, Sir. 19 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So there is added cost 20 by not keeping it open. And that savings that you were 21 talking about, Commissioner, also includes more deputies 22 on the street from the Sheriff's Department for work. 23 On the education of course I'm going to put KISD, Hunt, 24 Ingram, whatever school districts we have here, just out 25 of pride, on the top of the list, but they still will 11 1 receive some type of education wherever they go. That's 2 mandated, is it not? 3 MR. DAVIS: Yes, Sir, it is. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So if they're in Tom 5 Green County or whatever County they will be receiving 6 their education. They're just not going to sit there 7 and not be able to have the opportunities to further it, 8 correct? 9 MR. DAVIS: That's correct yes, Sir. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So with that said, 11 while there is a lot of emotion attached to this, this 12 is once again -- I've heard stories long before I was 13 this Court about the drain financially on it. You've 14 said the prior Courts have looked at this before. You 15 know, a million dollars is -- and I don't know what our 16 tax rate will be, but probably safe to say three cents 17 on the tax rate by keeping it open. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: You know looking at the 19 other side of that, this Court decided to have the AG 20 barn and all of that out there, and they're considering 21 what benefit that has to the youth of Kerr County, that 22 was the motivation there, too. And it's costing us some 23 money. 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's definitely 25 costing. 12 1 JUDGE POLLARD: And so I'm just saying 2 there's a precedent sort of set like this and maybe it 3 applies to this, too. I'm not saying y'all are wrong 4 about this; I'm just saying let's think about this, 5 because there are we saying by doing this that we want 6 to spend money on just the good kids that are in 7 agriculture and let the other ones go and not do 8 anything for them here in Kerr County with our money? 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I still think the cost 10 that we will be spending on these more -- is more than 11 the cost for the good kids even if that -- even if we do 12 have to transport them to other locals. 13 JUDGE POLLARD: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're spending money 15 on the kids, and per kid probably an equal amount. 16 We're not cutting what we're spending on individual 17 kids, we're cutting the loss and we're as part of the -- 18 as Commissioner Reeves said yes we're also hiring four 19 deputies but we're increasing the staff in juvenile 20 probation and giving them some additional vehicles, 21 things that they need as well. So I mean I think that 22 it's -- we're still providing for these kids, we're just 23 not doing it on a local basis. 24 MR. BELEW: Right. And I don't see it as 25 hitting one against the other, that's not really 13 1 necessary. 2 JUDGE POLLARD: I'm not either. I'm just 3 saying there's a -- that was the procedure behind it, 4 you know. Same thought process went through to justify 5 that. Does anybody else have anything to say about it? 6 I notice we got a lot of people here in the crowd this 7 afternoon. Does anyone want to speak on the issue? 8 Okay. Then what -- what do you want to do? 9 MS. TESCADOR: May I say something? 10 JUDGE POLLARD: Yes, Ma'am. State your 11 name, please. 12 MS. TESCADOR: I'm Vanessa Tescador, and I 13 work at the juvenile detention facility. And me 14 personally, I'm not speaking from my job, I'm speaking 15 for the County and for the kids, okay. Because if y'all 16 want to take a risk at sending them elsewhere where you 17 don't know for sure and for a fact, and a hundred -- or 18 let's say a hundred percent sure that you know those 19 kids are going to get the education and they're going to 20 get what we are providing for them, if you want to take 21 that risk that's not doing good for the kids, okay. Me 22 personally, I love this job, but not because of the 23 money, not because of what the benefits or whatever I 24 get out of it, I love this job because I make a 25 difference for those kids, okay. A lot of them -- 14 1 there's a good amount of kids that have come from the 2 very low point of not knowing how to read, not knowing 3 anything, that they come to our facility and leave with 4 such an improvement, a big amount of improvement. Not 5 only because we are teaching them, but because of our 6 facility and how things are there. We care for these 7 kids. I have spent hours and hours of my time trying to 8 get life out of kids that they're not being taken care 9 of in other facilities, that they come from other 10 facilities loaded, and I am talking about infested with 11 lice, that they've been in other facilities that have 12 not been taking care of this problem. But we take our 13 time, we take our love for those children to be able to 14 have them cleaned out so they have a proper hygiene for 15 themselves, and a good education, and a good amount of 16 food for them to be able to have a good life. A lot of 17 them come back yes, they come back because they don't 18 want to be out in the street, they don't want to go back 19 to certain facilities because they're not being taken 20 care of the way we have. And to me that is more 21 valuable than a three cents. I'm sorry, but that's more 22 valuable, the love for children, and we are supposed to 23 love those children. We're supposed to be doing things 24 for those children. So yes, I'm standing here because I 25 want this place to keep running because we've done so 15 1 much for them, the children, that I want to continue 2 doing more for those children that other places are not 3 doing. 4 JUDGE POLLARD: Thank you, Ma'am. 5 MS. TESCADOR: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask you one 7 question. Do you think of the children that you 8 interact with, the majority, are improved because of 9 being in the facility? 10 MS. TESCADOR: Yes, I do. A hundred 11 percent, yes. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Because a high 13 percentage you'd say are helped considerably. 14 MS. TESCADOR: A very high amount, in my 15 opinion, yes. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, thank you. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: Anyone else? All right, if 18 there's no one else this is an action item. What do you 19 want to do, guys? 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: One question for the 21 legal. Item 1.2 deals with Kerr County Juvenile 22 Detention Center. Is there anything -- are these two 23 related? Do we need to -- 24 MRS. STEBBINS: I think one just follows the 25 other just depending on what decisions you make. 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion under 2 1.1 that we close the Kerr County Juvenile Detention 3 Facility effective October 31st. 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: October 31st or 5 November 30th that we previously discussed? 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I thought it was 31st. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: The 31st. 8 MRS. DOSS: I have two months budgeted. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: November 30th. Change 10 that date to November 30th. 11 JUDGE POLLARD: All right, that's the 12 motion. Is there a second? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me add however it 14 will be closed as soon as possible. Maybe -- may close 15 prior to that date if the situation warrants it. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I will second it. 17 JUDGE POLLARD: On or before -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On or before. 19 JUDGE POLLARD: -- November 30th. Is there 20 a second? 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'll second. 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Been moved by Commissioner 23 Letz, seconded by Commissioner Reeves to close the 24 facility on or before -- the Juvenile Detention 25 Facility, on or before November the 30th of this year. 17 1 Is there any further comment or discussion? There being 2 none, those in favor of the motion signify by raising 3 your right hands. Those opposed? 4 (Commissioner Moser opposed.) 5 JUDGE POLLARD: It passes three to one. 6 All right, item 1.2 consider, discuss and 7 take appropriate action regarding personnel matters in 8 Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center. This part of 9 it's to be done ine executive session. You want to do 10 it first in that? 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Your Honor. Items 1.2, 12 3 and 4 are executive session items, I believe, as 13 needed, and then 1.5 is after the budget workshop, so 14 that if we could go into executive session on those 15 three items. 16 JUDGE POLLARD: Okay, that's all for the 17 public meeting right now unless we want to come out and 18 make some motion after executive session -- 19 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE POLLARD: -- take some action there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we do the workshop 22 and then come back to that? 23 MRS. STEBBINS: I request that we go into 24 executive session before the workshop because you'll be 25 receiving information that is important to what you'll 18 1 need to consider during the workshop. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. Then we're going 4 to recess the open session and go into closed session. 5 Pursuant to section 551.0 -- is it 071 and 074, Heather? 6 MRS. STEBBINS: It is 074, 071, and 076. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Pursuant to 551.071, 074 and 8 076 -- 9 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 10 JUDGE POLLARD: -- of the Texas Government 11 Code. Those in the courtroom not necessarily needed for 12 closed session are asked to be removed -- ask to remove 13 themselves. 14 (Executive Session.) 15 JUDGE POLLARD: All right, going to go back 16 to open session. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Just action on the one item. 18 JUDGE POLLARD: We're in open session now. 19 Are there any motions? 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Judge, would you call 21 item 1.3 on the agenda? 22 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. It's consider, 23 discuss and take appropriate action regarding personnel 24 matters in Kerr County Environmental Health and Kerr 25 County Animal Services Department. 19 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yes, Sir, I'd like to 2 make a motion to adjust the salary of the administrative 3 assistant in Environmental Health to coincide with the 4 correct step and grade and that would be effective 5 retroactively to May 22nd, 2017. 6 MR. BELEW: Second. 7 JUDGE POLLARD: Been moved by Commissioner 8 Reeves, seconded by Commissioner Belew to correct the 9 step and grade of administrative assistant in 10 Environmental Health effective as of May the 22nd -- 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 12 JUDGE POLLARD: -- and bring him up 13 to proper step and grade -- him or her, up to proper 14 step and grade. Any further discussion? There being 15 none, those in favor? It passes four zero. 16 Anything else in open session? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we recess though? 18 Can we recess that and now go to the workshop? 19 JUDGE POLLARD: Yeah. Recess it and go to 20 the workshop then, and if we have to come back to action 21 items. 22 (Budget Workshop.) 23 JUDGE POLLARD: Is that it? 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I have nothing more on 25 the special called meeting so we can adjourn now. 20 1 JUDGE POLLARD: All right. We're adjourned. 2 * * * * * * 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Reporter in and for Kerr County Commissioners' Court, do 6 hereby certify that the above and foregoing pages 7 contain and comprise a true and correct transcription of 8 the proceedings had in the above-entitled Commissioners' 9 Court. 10 Dated this the 21st day of August, A.D. 11 2017. 12 13 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 No. 953 Expiration Date 12/31/2018 15 * * * * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25