1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Thursday, December 28, 2017 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Pct. 1 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3. BOB REEVES, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioners' Comments. 4 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 7 action to allow Hill Country District 5 Junior Livestock Show Association to install two(2) additional plaques in the 6 vestibule of the Hill Country Youth Event Center. 7 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 9 8 action to designate Commissioners' and Judge's liaison appointments for various 9 functions for calendar year 2018. 10 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 10 action regarding planned resignation and 11 filling the position for the Kerr County Constable, Pct. 2. 12 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 20 13 action to approve contracts with San Antonio Food Bank, Hunt Volunteer Fire 14 Department, Turtle Creek Volunteer Fire Department, Mountain Home Volunteer Fire 15 Department, Center Point Volunteer Fire Department, and Big Brothers & Sisters, 16 and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 17 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 21 action to move the January 18, 2018 special 18 meeting (to pay the bills) to January 17, 2018. 19 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 22 20 action to file the Kerr County Adult Probation Department's Statement of 21 Financial Position for 2017. 22 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 23 action per HB 4032, effective September 1, 23 2017 relating to the annual limitations on the reimbursement of expenses incurred 24 by district court reporters. 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 4.1 Pay bills. 25 4 4.2 Budget Amendments. 25 5 4.3 Late Bills. 25 6 4.4 Approve Payroll. 25 7 4.5 Approve and accept Monthly Reports. 26 8 4.6 Auditor's Reports. 27 9 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison 27 Committee Assignments as per attachment. 10 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department 28 11 Heads. 12 5.3 Reports from Boards, Commissions and 28 Committees. 13 a). City/County Joint Projects or Operations Reports 14 b). Other 15 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 29 action regarding reduction of existing 16 fee structure for County Brewer's and Brewpub Permits. 17 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 55 18 action regarding planned resignation and filling the position for the Kerr County 19 Constable, Pct. 2. 20 4.4 Approve Payroll. 60 21 *** Adjournment. 60 22 *** Reporter's Certificate. 61 23 * * * * * * 24 25 4 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, good morning 2 everybody. Everyone stand, join me in the prayer, 3 followed by the Pledge. 4 (Prayer and Pledge of Allegiance.) 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, first thing 6 on our agenda will be visitors input, any visitor 7 wishing to speak on items not listed on the regular 8 agenda is invited to come up to the podium. Just give 9 your name, address for the record, please. 10 MR. MCILVAIN: Good morning, Commissioners, 11 Happy new year. I'm Charlie McIlvain, the President/CEO 12 of the Kerrville Convention Visitors Bureau. I'm here 13 this morning to invite each you to participate in the 14 2018 Hill Country Junior District Hill Country Livestock 15 Cowboy kick-off breakfast, and more specifically to 16 participate in the elected officials cow chip toss. 17 City Council tells me that they are geared up for a win 18 this year, and I'm confident that the Commissioners 19 would really like to retain that traveling trophy and 20 keep it here at the courthouse. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do they have money to 22 put on the line? 23 MR. MCILVAIN: I don't know whether they do 24 or not. That's something you may want to discuss with 25 those individuals. 5 1 MR. KOENIG: They got a lot of bragging 2 rights. 3 MR. MCILVAIN: For the past 13 years the 4 kickoff breakfast has been held downtown and most of 5 those years here on the courthouse parking lot, we're 6 very grateful for that. This year we are relocating to 7 the Youth Event Center for a couple reasons. One, that 8 will keep the entire event, the stock show event in one 9 location. It will ease up the parking situation here at 10 courthouse, and also we won't have to have everything 11 cleared out by 8:30 in order to conduct courthouse -- or 12 county business. 13 One additional change that we are going this 14 year is that it is more youth driven. We have students 15 from Tivy, the Junior ROTC will be presenting the 16 colors, the Tivy culinary class will be participating 17 this year, in addition to the 4-H students. 18 We look forward to a spirited cow chip toss 19 again this year. We thank each of you again for the 20 contribution you make, and look forward to seeing you on 21 January the 12th. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Sir. Would 23 anybody else like to make any comments during the public 24 session? If not, we go to Commissioner's comments. Mr. 25 Belew. 6 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Hmmmmm, don't having I 2 can think of to report, right offhand. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I've got two. Number 4 one in Precinct 2, which is dry from alcoholic beverage 5 sales, we have kicked off, and the Chamber of Commerce 6 is leading this effort to get on the ballot in November 7 the capability for the citizens of Precinct 2 to vote if 8 they want to have the sale of alcoholic beverage, so 9 that campaign is ongoing. We have to have -- the 10 petition like 14 hundred signatures by February 20th, 11 somewhere in that neighborhood. And anyway, it's -- 12 hope to get it on the ballot. So we've tried -- this 13 will be the multiple time, we've tried two times 14 recently, so that's ongoing. So I don't know if part of 15 this forum if Walt wants to say anything more about 16 that. 17 MR. KOENIG: I'll speak during my remarks. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And then the other 19 thing is fireworks. I think we have a ban on bottle 20 rockets and fin rockets in the county. Some people have 21 called being concerned about the dry conditions that we 22 have, even though it looks wet it's not really wet, so 23 everyone be careful with that, so with their fireworks. 24 And don't do the bottle rockets and fins in the county. 25 Sheriff will come get you. Sheriff's looking for 7 1 vacancy -- he's looking for -- he's got vacancy in his 2 big jail -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're full. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's all. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have anything. 6 Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Just on a very somber 8 note, yesterday we said goodbye to a 91 year resident of 9 West Kerr County. Temple Henderson passed away last 10 Saturday, and services were yesterday. His family goes 11 back to some of the early settlers in the county, so 12 thoughts and prayers to Jan, Rusty and the rest of the 13 family. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right, let's 15 go on to the consideration agenda. 1.1 consider, 16 discuss and take appropriate action to allow the Hill 17 Country District Junior Livestock Show Association to 18 install two additional plaques on the vestibule of the 19 Hill Country Youth Event Center. Bobby Balser. 20 MR. BALSER: Good morning. We -- the Stock 21 Show Association has over the last, I guess, 75 years I 22 think is what it is, had many supporters, and we 23 appreciate every one of them. And right now, we would 24 like to put a couple plaques up in the vestibule there 25 at the Event Center. I think we've kind of looked at 8 1 different spots in there, and have decided a location, 2 but we just need to -- I guess the approval to go ahead 3 and do that. I think what -- the possibility right now 4 of maybe doing the unveiling of who they are and what 5 right after the cowboy breakfast that Charlie just spoke 6 about, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And these plaques are 8 similar to what's already -- 9 MR. BALSER: They're not out of context; 10 they're actually the same things, bronze plaques, we've 11 had Creative Awards over in Fredericksburg. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And this would be on a 13 separate area from the building donors and all of that? 14 MR. BALSER: Right, right. I think they're 15 on the wall as you go into the Event Center. This would 16 be on the wall, I guess, looking out toward the highway 17 is kind of where -- either the left or the right side, 18 whichever, wherever y'all decide would be the best spot. 19 I don't think there's anything on those walls right now 20 if I remember right. 21 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I've got no problem 22 with it, and make a motion to allow the Association with 23 the help of our Maintenance Department to install two 24 additional plaques in the vestibule at the Hill Country 25 Youth Event Center. 9 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A motion from 3 Commissioner Reeves, a second from Commissioner Belew to 4 allow Hill Country Junior District Livestock Show 5 Association to install two plaques in the vestibule of 6 the Hill Country Youth Event Center in accordance with 7 our Maintenance Department. Any further discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't have any 9 objection to this, I think it's a good idea. But one 10 thing I think we would like to see probably in the 11 future very soon is that we have some sort of plan for 12 the Event Center that we -- the interior decorating kind 13 of thing. Where we're going to put plaques, where we're 14 going to put trophies, where we're going to put 15 pictures, so we're not doing a hodgepodge. And I'm 16 certainly not saying that's what this is. Just not 17 sticking things on walls, if we could consider that in 18 the future. But anyway that's all the comment I have. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. If no 20 further discussion all in favor raise your right hand. 21 Unanimous, four zero. Thank you. 22 MR. BALSER: Thank y'all very much. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 1.2 consider, 24 discuss and take appropriate action to designate 25 Commissioners' and Judge's liaison appointments for 10 1 various functions for the calendar year 2018. I 2 recommend we table this until our next meeting 3 considering Judge Pollard is not here today. 4 Item 1.3 consider, discuss and take 5 appropriate action regarding planned resignation, and 6 filling the position for Kerr County Constable Precinct 7 2. Commissioner Moser. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Jonathan. 9 We have a vacancy, which I think is effective January 10 the 1st from Charlie Hicks as the Constable Precinct 2, 11 and we have a procedure by with which we can fill that 12 vacancy, and that is to advertise the position, we don't 13 have to fill it and, Heather, jump in here at any point 14 with this, help me out here on what we can and can't do. 15 But we can fill the position like we've done in the past 16 by advertising, getting applications, and 17 qualifications, having a committee, small committee 18 review those and interview the appropriate people and 19 make a recommendation to Commissioners' Court for an 20 appointment of someone to fill that vacancy until the 21 next election. Did I characterize that correctly? 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Until the next general 23 election when the person elected would be in the office 24 after the votes are canvassed. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, and that would 11 1 be like in November or something -- 2 MRS. STEBBINS: No. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- but if there's 4 nobody on the ballot, okay, for that position since it's 5 expired -- 6 MRS. STEBBINS: The opportunity that the 7 parties put someone on the ballot. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They can put somebody 9 on the ballot, but if they don't, if the Republican 10 party -- 11 MRS. STEBBINS: I'll have to look that 12 issue. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what we're saying is 14 the Republican party or Democratic party can put 15 somebody on the ballot, okay, for November. If they 16 don't then that person that we would select or appoint 17 would just go until the next election, I would assume, 18 probably. 19 MRS. STEBBINS: Probably. I haven't look at 20 issue whether or not if they don't -- whether or not 21 they don't put someone on the ballot. I haven't looked 22 into that. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If you're appointed and 24 then you're unopposed and just continue. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Probably so. 12 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think it would be 2 something -- we're looking at two different items. One, 3 it's an appointment by the Commissioners' Court, and 4 then the second one is the selection of candidates by 5 the respective parties, and if they don't then I think 6 we'll need some other legal opinion, whether that our 7 appointment continues or not. I personally don't think 8 they would, because that -- I have a feeling it's going 9 to be similar to my appointment a little over -- or 10 under four years ago with the vacancy, during an 11 election year. But I'm sure you can look up the 12 election laws for us, couldn't you? 13 MRS. STEBBINS: I can, yes, Sir. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I would make a 15 motion that effective January the 1st with the 16 resignation of Constable Charlie Hicks that we advertise 17 for that position and appoint a committee to fill that 18 vacancy, looking at applications, make a recommendation 19 to Commissioners' Court. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Question on 21 procedure -- 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 23 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- from Miss Stebbins. 24 Your memo to the Court we'll need to accept the 25 resignation on or after its effective date. 13 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 2 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Which I believe is 3 01-01. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Should we hold off on 6 any action until after we've accepted his resignation? 7 MRS. STEBBINS: I believe that's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So is it your feeling 9 we shouldn't do anything today? 10 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. I don't think 11 that you should accept the resignation until after 12 January 1st, and then at that time you can take -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That -- that's fine. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: -- the matter up to 15 advertise however y'all would like to put one in that 16 position -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure, okay. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: -- and until the time that 19 that person fills that position Mr. Hicks carries over 20 and still is obligated to perform the duties of that 21 office. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good enough. So 23 we will just have this for discussion today with what 24 our options are after the official date of the 25 resignation. 14 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The word you used 2 confused me a little bit. You said he's obligated to do 3 it, but what if he doesn't want to do it? I mean he is 4 trying to resign. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: I know that he is trying to 6 resign, so that might push y'all to make a speedy 7 decision on who to appoint if you want to appoint 8 someone. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But on the -- let's 10 say, okay, so if he resigns then what you're saying is 11 we can appoint somebody without going through -- I mean 12 I know we can appoint somebody, so it would be our -- do 13 we have to appoint somebody? 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: You don't have to appoint 16 somebody, but that brings in to the issue of what 17 Commissioner Letz just said that he will carry over that 18 position, and then there are other consequences of not 19 performing the functions of the office that he's been 20 elected. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, gotcha. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So I have a question. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: I hope I have the answer. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, something you 25 said. Now, he's tendered his resignation -- 15 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- and you indicated to 3 me from what you said that it's not officially accepted 4 until the date on it. In other words the resignation 5 letter is like a notification, is that legally the way 6 it works? 7 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. You must accept it, 8 but in order to accept it what I understand is that you 9 have to accept it on or after the date that he's 10 resigning, on or after January 1st. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All right. Otherwise 12 it just serves as a notice that that's coming up. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. That's how I would 14 consider it if I were y'all. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So our first 16 time we would consider this would be -- when's our next 17 January meeting? 18 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Well, your first regular 19 meeting in January is the 8th. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the 8th. 21 MRS. GRINSTEAD: We'll have one on the 4th 22 to pay bills if you to want to do it then or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's do it the 8th. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. Yeah, we'll do it 25 on the 8th. Put that on the agenda, if you will, on the 16 1 8th. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Heather, I have one more 3 question if -- you know, my memory just fails me 4 sometimes, but my recollection is that a person cannot 5 pick a date to resign. They either resign, or they 6 don't resign. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, I read an opinion 8 which was one of the questions that Commissioner Belew 9 just asked, but if we're going to accept -- if you're 10 going to accept it, it needs to be on or after that date 11 that they put on the notice, but the person has to carry 12 over until y'all accept it. You don't have to accept 13 the resignation. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. No, but what I 15 was thinking, and maybe it was a difference between -- 16 maybe this wasn't an elected official I'm thinking 17 about, that they couldn't pick a date in the future. 18 They either had to resign, or they didn't resign, you 19 know. They can't say well I'm going to resign in the 20 future sometime, you either resign, or you don't resign. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: I haven't read anything 22 about elected officials that relate to that, but I was 23 asked direct questions from Mr. Hicks and Commissioner 24 Moser, but i haven't read anything that says thou shall 25 not do that. Do it the way it's been done. 17 1 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I think Mr. Kelly -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, Mr. Kelly. 3 MR. KELLY: I happen to have personal 4 knowledge of this. Back in 1994 when I ran for Chief 5 Justice of the Court of Appeals in San Antonio. The 6 election -- kind of trying to remember all this. The 7 next election cycle, I was going to run again for Chief 8 Justice, and Phil Hardberger, who later became Mayor, 9 approached all the Republican candidates, and we jointly 10 supported him to become the next Chief Justice. 11 In that process what he had said he was 12 going to do was announce that he was going to resign, 13 and so we were looking to one of us being appointed to 14 fill his vacancy. What he did instead was he didn't 15 resign; he sent a letter saying he was going to resign 16 on a certain date, and that date was after you could 17 hold a primary. And so it went to the Supreme Court, 18 and Justice Cornyn, my former law partner, wrote the 19 decision in it, and what the Supreme Court held is you 20 either resign or you don't. And they held that 21 Hardberger resigned when he sent his notice rather than 22 the effective date, so you're spot on exactly what the 23 Supreme Court said, and I apologize. 24 MRS. STEBBINS: No. 25 MR. KELLY: And I don't know if there's been 18 1 any cases since then, but that was back in '96. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: And that makes me wonder 3 though if it's related to his position as a Judge? 4 MR. KELLY: I don't know. I don't remember. 5 I just remember what happened. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Have Heather go check 7 it. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: I think that there's -- I 9 think that it might -- there might be a difference that 10 it turns on. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean my 12 memory is -- I don't want to bring in the names of the 13 people I'm thinking of, but my recollection is exactly 14 what Mr. Kelly said. 15 MR. KELLY: And your neighbor, Jim Branton 16 was appointed by the Democratic Party to run for that 17 vacancy, and Sandee Bryan Marion was appointed to run -- 18 no, Karen Angelini was appointed to run. And there 19 were -- both of them were just appointed by the party, 20 which is kind of what we're talking about here. The 21 party's going to appoint somebody to run. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean I still -- 23 regardless, I don't think that we can -- we can defer 24 action until the 8th. I don't think it's going to make 25 any particular difference, and then we can look into 19 1 this issue a little bit more whether he actually 2 resigned the date his letter was put in or not. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I guess even if 4 what Mr. Kelly is saying is true that his resignation is 5 effective when the letter came in, he's still having to 6 hold over, which Mrs. Stebbins was stating, with all his 7 duties until the replacement is put -- so it looks like 8 a catch 22 and we just got to clear it up. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: And how much it matters, I 10 don't know, because what Commissioner Reeves said at 11 least for his position he has to -- he's obligated to 12 carry on the duties of his office, and so what that then 13 means that if the County is obligated to pay him, pay 14 his insurance and do all of those things while he's 15 performing the duties. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So it would be best on 17 us to act soon rather than later to appoint a 18 replacement. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's the reason I 20 brought it up for today just to see where we go with 21 that, so I think we got a clear picture where we go. 22 January 8th put it on the agenda, we'll take action at 23 that time, and I think that anything we can do prior to 24 then to get ready to be ready with notices in the paper 25 and all, we'd be ready to initiate that. And I'm not 20 1 saying we'll do that right now, but after the 8th. 2 Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Then be back 4 on the agenda on the 8th. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good enough. 6 Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 1.4 consider, 8 discuss and take appropriate action to approve contracts 9 with the San Antonio Food Bank, Hunt Volunteer Fire 10 Department, Turtle Creek Volunteer Fire Department, 11 Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, Center Point 12 Volunteer Fire Department, and Big Brothers & Sisters, 13 and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: All contracts have 15 been reviewed? 16 MRS. STEBBINS: I have, yes. This is the 17 same that we've signed for years, except the one change 18 in that Volunteer Fire Department -- or those volunteer 19 fire departments contracts related to serving -- 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Workers comp in 21 adjoining counties. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I move for approval of 24 the contracts as listed in the agenda item, and 25 authorize the County Judge to sign each contract. 21 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'll second that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 3 Reeves, second by Commissioner Moser to approve the 4 contracts as presented in the agenda item, and authorize 5 the County Judge to sign same. Any further discussion? 6 All in favor raise your right hand. Four zero. Thank 7 you. 8 Item 1.5 consider, discuss and take 9 appropriate action to move the January 18th, 2018 10 special meeting to pay the bills to January 17th. 11 Commissioner Reeves. 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: This is simply the 13 stock show week. That Thursday I have a feeling we'll 14 all be performing duties out there, and various ones. 15 This is just a bill paying meeting, and if there's no 16 problem with the Auditor, or HR for having the bills 17 ready on the 17th that would -- I think it would be 18 best -- in the best interest. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will agree. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I make a motion to 21 move the special meeting that would have been scheduled 22 January 18, 2018, which is a bill paying meeting to 23 January 17, 2018 at the normal time. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we even have the 25 18th scheduled? 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We will. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I know we should; 3 we will. Okay, so it's not even scheduled yet? 4 COMMISSIONER REEVES: No. It's just a 5 Thursday meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. So we're 7 just setting a 17th meeting, okay. Gotcha. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 10 Reeves, second by Commissioner Belew to move the meeting 11 that would be scheduled for January 18th, 2018, which is 12 a special meeting to pay the bills to January 17th, 13 2018, and the meeting will be at 9 o'clock. Any further 14 discussion? All in favor raise your right hand. 15 Unanimous, four zero. 16 1.6 consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action to file the Kerr County Adult Probation 18 Department's statement of financial position for 2017. 19 Brenda Doss. 20 MRS. DOSS: Yes. The adult probation audit 21 has been completed, and you should have a copy of it in 22 your packet. And we are required to file with 23 Commissioners' Court the financial management manual 24 from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice that says 25 that we have to file it with Commissioners' Court for 23 1 acceptance. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll need a motion to 3 accept the audit. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll make a motion to 5 accept the audit as presented. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'll second. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have a motion from 8 Commissioner Belew, second from Commissioner Reeves to 9 accept the Kerr County Adult Probation Department's 10 statement of financial position for 2017. Any further 11 discussion? All in favor raise your right hand. It's 12 unanimous, four zero. 13 Item 1.7 consider, discuss and take 14 appropriate action per House Bill 4032, effective 15 September 1, 2017 relating to the annual limitations on 16 reimbursement of expenses incurred by district court 17 reporters. Brenda Doss. 18 MRS. DOSS: Yes. There was a new House Bill 19 I came to discover that was effective 9-1-2017, and in 20 order to pay more than the $400.00 for district court 21 reporter travel, the Commissioners' Court has to approve 22 this now. And we do have enough -- we have more than 23 that, but we have $5000.00 in the budget, but we have to 24 take action to approve this. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And we'd anticipated 24 1 paying for that travel. 2 MRS. DOSS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER REEVES: But because of this 4 law we have to -- 5 MRS. DOSS: You have to take action. 6 COMMISSIONER REEVES: -- we have to take 7 action on it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The action would be to 9 approve the payment up to the budgeted amount? 10 MRS. DOSS: Yes, Sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyone like to make a 12 motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I've been making them 15 all day, gentlemen. Y'all want to make one? 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I make a motion that we 17 take the appropriate action, accept the HB -- well, we 18 take the action required to accept the HB 4032 relating 19 to the annual limits of the reimbursement of the 20 expenses incurred by district court reporters. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 23 Belew, second from Commissioner Moser to take 24 appropriate action required per House Bill 4032, 25 effective September 1, 2017 relating to the annual 25 1 limitations on reimbursement of expenses incurred by 2 district court reporters per the budgeted amount. Is 3 that okay to include that, per the budgeted amount? 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, okay with me. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any further 6 discussion? All in favor raise your right hand. 7 Unanimous, four zero. 8 The next item it's a timed item for 10:00. 9 We'll move on to the approval agenda, pay the bills. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Make a motion to pay 11 the bills as presented. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A motion and second to 14 pay the bills. A motion from Commissioner Reeves, 15 second by Commissioner Moser to pay the bills. Any 16 further discussion? All in favor raise your right hand. 17 Unanimous. 18 Budget amendments. 19 MRS. DOSS: No budget amendments. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No budget amendments. 21 Late bills. 22 MRS. DOSS: No late bills. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No late bills. Payroll? 24 MRS. DOSS: Yes, we do have payroll. The 25 total disbursed was $877,346.32. 26 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion to approve the 2 payroll? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I make a motion to 4 approve the payroll. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 6 Belew. Do we have a second? 7 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I wonder what they'd 8 do if I didn't second this motion? I make a second. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There would be a 10 revolt. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, motion to 12 approve the payroll. Motion from Commissioner Belew, 13 second from Commissioner Reeves. All in favor raise 14 your right hand. Four zero, unanimous. 15 Approve and accept monthly reports. 16 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Yes. Unless otherwise 17 indicated all of the reports are for the month of 18 November, 2017. They include the County Clerk's report, 19 J.P. Precinct Number 4, Constable Precinct No. 4, 20 Indigent Services report, and the County Treasurer's 21 report. Move to accept the reports as submitted, and 22 sign where needed. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion to accept the 24 monthly reports. Do we have a second? 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second by Commissioner 2 Belew. All in favor raise your right hand. Unanimous, 3 four zero. 4 Auditor reports? 5 MRS. DOSS: None, Sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item V Informational 7 Agenda. Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 8 assignments. Commissioner Belew. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I have to read a poem 10 soon at the historical meeting, so that's all I have to 11 report. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Mr. Moser. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have anything. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I have none, Sir. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I do want to add one 17 thing, one thing. So January 1st all residents of Kerr 18 County, City, outside the City, have access to all the 19 services of the library. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Excellent. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Go get your library 23 cards. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can you use an old one? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 28 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't know. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, let's see, 4 reports from elected officials/department heads. 5 Sheriff? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick. As of 7 this last weekend we do have all our inmates back in the 8 county in our current facility. We have not been able 9 to open the new portion yet. There's still some issues 10 with the smoke evac system, and I'm sure the Court will 11 be hearing a little bit more with that. But currently, 12 we do have everybody back in county, but unless we get 13 the new part open pretty quick we may be forced to house 14 out of county on any other ones. We'll see. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Anybody 16 else? Any other elected officials or department heads? 17 There being none, reports from boards, 18 commissions, committees? None. That's it on the agenda 19 except for item 1.8, so we'll be in recess until 10:00. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Commissioner Letz, I'll ask 21 that you revisit item -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 1.3. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: -- 1.3 after we discuss the 24 brewer's permit. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: So after 10. 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So after 10. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 3 (Recess until 10:00 a.m.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, it's 10 5 o'clock, and I'll reconvene the Commissioners' Court 6 meeting. A timed item for ten o'clock is 1.8 consider, 7 discuss and take appropriate action regarding reduction 8 of the existing fee structure for County Brewer's and 9 Brewpub permits. Jeremy Walther has this agenda item, 10 and Commissioner Moser just wanted to make a comment. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I just wanted to 12 get a little bit of background, if I could. Jeremy and 13 I have been talking about this, and asked him to bring 14 it to Commissioners' Court. And also we have today Walt 15 Koenig is here representing the Craft Agriculture 16 Committee. From an economic development standpoint 17 there's been a -- I'll just call it a very high interest 18 in Craft Agriculture Committee, breweries, wineries, 19 mini breweries, in vineyards in trying to -- trying to 20 capitalize that on this area, which appears to be very 21 good. So Jeremy Walther has a proposal here to help the 22 mini brewery aspect, so I think it's important for the 23 entire community to understand what this is. And it's 24 just not an individual business per se; but it's bigger 25 than that, so -- and Walt may want to add something here 30 1 a little bit later. Anyway, thank you for that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeremy. 3 MR. WALTHER: Thank you. Jeremy Walther, 4 owner of Pint & Plow Brewing Company, 332 Clay Street. 5 I want to give a little bit of background on the 6 brewery. We opened in spring last year. We consulted 7 with several people in -- when we were kind of figuring 8 out our business plan and figuring out if this is a 9 model that can actually work for Kerrville. But we were 10 very very adamant about doing this in Kerrville. This 11 project is my brother and I. We both grew up in 12 Kerrville, both of our wives grew up in Kerrville, and 13 we moved away from Kerrville, and moved back to 14 Kerrville, and then had this idea of using craft beer 15 and locally sourced foods to help development community 16 in Kerrville, and that's what we set out to do. But we 17 didn't -- didn't necessarily have experience in 18 restaurants, in breweries, or coffee shops or anything 19 that we were doing, so we did a lot of homework during 20 those three years of planning, and one of those homework 21 assignments was to visit with restaurant owners, and 22 brewery owners outside of the area, because there -- up 23 to that point had not been a brewery or a brewpub in 24 Kerr County, history of Kerr County, So there was just 25 no data to look at, so we talked to owner of a brewpub 31 1 in Austin who opened North by Northwest Brewery there 2 over 30 years ago. He's one of the first brewpubs in 3 Austin. And we talked to him and had a meeting with 4 him, and he said, you know, I actually considered 5 Kerrville a few years ago when the Cailloux's were 6 redeveloping the Schreiner building to consider putting 7 a -- you know, a similar style of what I'm doing in 8 Austin, but put it in the Cailloux -- in the Schreiner 9 building, and he said then I looked at it, there is no 10 way that it could work, Kerrville cannot support a 11 brewery, do not do this, is what he told us. And I said 12 man, Dave, it's like you're just looking at numbers, you 13 know, you're looking at average median income, which you 14 know isn't really an actual portrayal of the 15 economics -- individual economics of Kerrville. You 16 have to look at kind of the soul of Kerrville and the 17 potential of Kerrville, and that's what we're doing. He 18 said man you're either a business person, or you're a 19 dreamer, and you can't be both, and that's how we kind 20 of ended that meeting with David. And of course, you 21 know, still pursued it and found two investors that are 22 in Kerrville. We raised enough cash to kind of leverage 23 a loan from a local bank in Kerrville, and a second loan 24 from another individual in the Kerrville community, and 25 so this is a hyper-local project. This is funded by 32 1 Kerrville, run by people from the community. We have 22 2 employees, and our mission is to develop the community 3 in Kerrville. And so we have now been open a little 4 over a year and a half, and we have been profitable 5 every month, and we have seen an extraordinary support 6 from the community. We have seen just day-to-day the 7 clientele that come in there are more diverse than any 8 other business that I have seen, especially restaurants 9 in Kerrville. We're connecting with retired people, 10 we're connecting with young people, we're connecting 11 with families, we're connecting with beer drinkers, 12 we're connecting with food eaters who don't even drink 13 beer, and -- and we feel like we're we're providing 14 something everyone, and that has been the most 15 validating rewarding part of this project, and we're 16 continuing to improve ourselves to continue doing that. 17 And the reason that we're here today is that 18 we are assessed a permit fee by TABC every two years. 19 The permit that we pursued through TABC is a Brewer's 20 Permit. Because we manufacture beer we have one of two 21 options, we can get a Brewer's Permit, which is in the 22 manufacturing tier, or we can get a brewpub permit, 23 which is in the retail tier. The reason we went with 24 the Brewer's Permit is because you -- any entity cannot 25 have ownership, every individual owner of that entity 33 1 cannot have cross-ownership among the three tiers of 2 distribution, retail, and manufacturing. And one of our 3 partners is involved in the brewery who owns a -- that 4 has a Brewer's Permit in Austin, and one of our 5 investors is involved in a distillery, which is in the 6 manufacturing tier of TABC's 3-tier system. And so our 7 only option was to pursue the permit that put us into 8 the manufacturing tier, so that's the route we went. 9 Now, for all practical purposes we don't -- 10 we don't necessarily operate as a brewery; in the eyes 11 of TABC, we do, because we do manufacture beer, we do 12 keg it. We do have the legal ability to self distribute 13 it, and we do have a permit to do that as well. And our 14 long-term goal for the brewery is to develop our brand, 15 really, really hone in on details. Really, you know, 16 make sure that we're doing the best that we can onsite, 17 and then use the power of that brand to put our beer in 18 other places outside of Kerrville, starting with 19 Fredericksburg, Boerne, possibly San Antonio, Austin as 20 a way to attract people into Kerrville. Not only the 21 brewery, but into Kerrville, you know, and the County, 22 and so we want to make sure that we're at a hundred 23 percent. We want to make sure that we're executing all 24 the details, and that we have a system that's 25 sustainable, but we already do have three outside 34 1 accounts, two of them are in Fredericksburg, one of them 2 is in Austin, but that's it. So it's two small 3 restaurants in Fredericksburg, and one restaurant-bar in 4 Austin. 99 percent of our revenue is from onsite sales, 5 and so I don't foresee us ever pursuing more than maybe 6 20 outside accounts, and so, you know, we will -- we 7 just don't have the capacity to store that much beer, or 8 set up a distribution system, or even contract with a 9 distributor, we just don't have the storage space to do 10 that, so that's not our goal. And so long term even -- 11 although we could expand our distribution and act a 12 little more like a brewery. Even long term we're going 13 to stay as essentially what is a restaurant. 14 And so what we're asking is to reduce the 15 fee that the County is charging us. Legally, the State 16 allows local municipalities to charge up to 50 percent 17 of what the State is charging for that same fee, so if 18 the State's charging us 35 hundred dollars for our 19 Brewer's Permit fee, and self distribution permit. The 20 County is allowed to charge us $1750.00 every two years 21 as well. 22 Our argument is that -- you know, there's 23 two reasons we would like to see that fee reduced. One 24 is because it's not very accurate for how we operate, 25 and Number two -- and so, we'd like to see it sort of 35 1 level the playing field a little bit. We're operating 2 very similar to the way that Rails is, to the way Grape 3 Juice is, to the way PoPo's is, to the way that these 4 other permit holders who hold a beer and wine license 5 that permit fee is $350.00, I believe, from the state 6 instead of 35 hundred dollars. And so the County fee to 7 most restaurants in Kerr County is, you know, half of 8 that, $175.00, I believe. And so we'd like to kind of 9 level the playing field so that we're paying fees that 10 are more in line with what other restaurants are paying, 11 and number two, more importantly than that, is we have 12 -- we have proven, I think, and our striving to 13 continue to prove that craft beer and craft agriculture 14 and this hyper-local concept of keeping that money in 15 the community, and running the company and the entity, 16 you know, hyperlocally is great for the community. And 17 so breweries, wineries, brewpubs, those are all great 18 mechanisms to help connect people to where they live, 19 and to the other people that they're interacting with, 20 and to the products that they're consuming. And so you 21 walk into our brewery and you can see stainless steel 22 vessels, you know, through glass where that beer is 23 made, and there's -- there's smells when we're brewing, 24 you know, there's a whole interactive experience that 25 customers get, and it's not just the plate of food or 36 1 that pint of beer that they're drinking. And the 2 flavor, it's the whole atmosphere that they're taking 3 in. And that helps them connect to the place that 4 they're in. They recognize they're in Kerrville, Texas, 5 and so to -- especially to visitors, if that's the only 6 experience they have, they come into the brewery, 7 they're taking that memory with them, they're taking a 8 positive experience of Kerrville as a whole with them 9 through the brewery, and if they go down to the river 10 trail, that's just adding to that experience. If 11 they're going to other places, other assets that this 12 community has. If they're breathing the air in 13 Kerrville, they're taking that experience as well. And 14 so if we can encourage more of those homegrown 15 hyper-local business that truly celebrate this amazing 16 place, you know, that we all live. And then I think, 17 you know, that is the type of development that is good 18 for Kerrville and Kerr County. And as you look at other 19 areas, if you look at Fredericksburg, and you look at 20 Boerne, and you look at every area around San Antonio 21 and Austin, you can kind of see Kerrville's future. And 22 like it or not Kerrville will grow. I mean, that is a 23 fact, and I think we've all come to -- you know, come to 24 realize this. We've resisted change for as long as we 25 can, and now those days are over. But we still do have 37 1 a choice of how we grow, and this is a small gesture, 2 reducing this fee is a small gesture that says hey we're 3 encouraging this type of business that doesn't really 4 exist in Kerrville right now. We want to help promote 5 this market, and we support those businesses that are 6 currently in existence that are doing it now. 7 And so this request for a fee reduction 8 isn't really just for us, it's for future breweries and 9 brewpubs, this is another kind of more based on action, 10 less on words way of proving that the County and -- and 11 that -- you know, that all of us are here to support new 12 businesses that are truly going to make a big 13 difference, and positive difference for Kerrville. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jeremy, let me ask you 15 a question. So you have a brewer's permit, the 16 manufacturing permit, but yet you're asking for a 17 comparable fee, okay, permit fee from the County 18 consistent with restaurants. 19 MR. WALTHER: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the Tax Assessor 21 Collector is here, so just not understanding how all 22 these pieces if they're connected or how they're 23 connected, or what. Let me see if Diane can address 24 that for us. 25 MS. DIANE BOLIN: Okay. Currently the 38 1 county charges 50 percent of what the state charges, so 2 every two years every time a permit is renewed, we 3 charge 50 percent of what the State charges. I show in 4 our records that Mr. Walther actually has three 5 licenses, so one of them is the brewer's permit, one of 6 them is the brewpub, and the other is a self 7 distribution distributor permit. He gets charged half 8 of whatever he pays the State for each one of these. 9 Everyone gets the same. There are other entities that 10 pay more than he does, and they are not breweries. They 11 hold multiple licenses the same as he does. 12 My caution would be if you lower this, are 13 you going to lower it across the board since everybody 14 pays 50 percent now for two years? And 175 is for two 15 years; not one. His 1750 is for two years. Austin 16 charges 50 percent of the State fee. Most of the 17 counties I contacted charge the 50 percent across the 18 board. They don't split it based on the type of license 19 that it is. 20 I do have a gentleman from TABC, he's the 21 regional director, Mr. Connally, if y'all have 22 questions. They have a three-tier setup, and he can 23 answer on their part any questions that you have. The 24 City, I know they lowered it 175. I don't know if 25 that's per year or every two years. They have a way to 39 1 recoup that revenue through fees. Our way to recoup the 2 revenue would be through raising taxes. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So if we wanted to 4 incentivize, let me just use that word, this type of 5 economic development establishment, and we'd identify 6 that as a category that we wanted to do like we've done, 7 we could do that. We have the authority to do that -- 8 MS. DIANE BOLIN: You have the authority. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- with the warnings 10 that you just presented. 11 MS. DIANE BOLIN: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's -- and I don't 13 know if Heather's got any comment or anything. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: It just permits the county 15 to -- you may charge this up to 50 percent that the 16 state charges. You aren't required to collect anything, 17 but you may, and it can be maxed out at 50 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I see. And so 19 these fees are collected. What's the -- have they 20 already paid the fee, or is this talking about the 21 future or -- 22 MS. DIANE BOLIN: He has not paid the 2017 23 fee yet. He requested that I wait until after 24 Commissioners' Court. But are you -- if you determine 25 that you're going to lower it, are you going to make it 40 1 retroactive, which means I gotta refund everybody who 2 has a '17 permit that we've already charged and they've 3 paid, or you going to make it effective on January 1 of 4 '18? 5 MR. WALTHER: How many -- and what I'm 6 requesting is that you reduce the fees for brewer's 7 permit holders and brewpub permit holders. And 8 currently there are only two that I know of in the 9 county that hold one of those two permits, correct? 10 MS. DIANE BOLIN: Okay. Who is the second 11 one? 12 MR. WALTHER: That's Basement Brewery. 13 MS. DIANE BOLIN: That has your same 14 address. 15 MR. WALTHER: That's not our same address. 16 They're on Clay Street, but they don't share our 17 address. I believe their addresses may be in the 400 or 18 500 block? 19 MS. DIANE BOLIN: No. It was 312 Clay 20 Street. 21 MR. WALTHER: 312 Clay Street. So we're 22 332. They're literally Clay Street on the other side of 23 Schreiner Street, and they just opened this year. 24 MS. DIANE BOLIN: Yeah, they did just open. 25 I knew there was another one coming in. I did not know 41 1 what the name of it was. 2 MR. WALTHER: So they're not affiliated with 3 us in anyway. We are familiar with them, and we're 4 supportive of them even though -- 5 MS. DIANE BOLIN: But they do the same type 6 of stuff that you do. 7 MR. WALTHER: They manufacture beer, they 8 have a different permit. I don't believe they're 9 selling -- 10 MS. DIANE BOLIN: I don't think -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hold on, let me 12 interject here, rather than y'all two go back and forth 13 with it with each other. First that we have a speaker 14 from -- Mr. McIlvain, and Mr. Koenig both want to make 15 comments. Let me hear from them, and then I'd like to 16 hear a little bit from TABC as well. Charlie, give your 17 name and address, please. 18 MR. MCiLVAINE: Thank you, Commissioners. 19 Charlie McIlvain, Kerrville Convention & Visitors 20 Bureau, 108 Sidney Baker. The Convention & Visitors 21 Bureau is involved in the Craft Agricultural Committee 22 working to attract distilleries, brewpubs, wineries, 23 tasting rooms, coffee and olive oil into the community. 24 The thing that we're looking at is this is a very 25 attractive visitor component. It does, as Jeremy 42 1 mentioned, creates a very diverse base consumer base. 2 There are several other facilities on the horizon that 3 we're working with to bring into the area. I think if 4 you'll look at it you'll see that taxes, that these 5 visitors generate will certainly long overcome the fee 6 structure that we're reducing. For that reason the 7 Convention & Visitors Bureau does support the reduction 8 of the fee. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Koenig. 10 MR. KOENIG: Good morning, Commissioners. 11 My name's Walter Koenig, I'm the President/CEO of the 12 Kerrville Chamber of Commerce. I think Charlie pretty 13 well summarized what the Craft Agriculture Committee is 14 all about. A little history there, about a year ago the 15 Chamber of Commerce recognized that the Craft 16 Agriculture industry and the positive affect it will 17 have on tourism is an important component of the longer 18 term strategy for the economy of the Kerrville area. 19 In order to address this we've established a 20 committee. The committee's components include folks 21 from the county, from the city, from the Visitors 22 Bureau, Chamber, Economic Development, and some key 23 business leaders in this industry in the county. Our 24 objective is to break down barriers to all phases of the 25 Craft Agriculture business, through the whole supply 43 1 chain from production to distribution, and to retail. 2 We support the reduction of the fees in this case for 3 the positive impact that Charlie mentioned on a tax 4 basis, but also from a strategic standpoint. One of the 5 things that the committee's been very successful at 6 doing is providing strong input to the Kerrville 7 comprehensive planning process, and what we're seeing is 8 an emerging subtrend, though it's early in the game, is 9 a strong desire in the community to have more Craft 10 Agricultural related businesses in the county as part of 11 our longer term economic growth strategy, and as a 12 longer term method to drive towards and the associated 13 revenue. 14 Pursuant to this strategy and supply chain 15 facilitation, we're also involved in the making from dry 16 to wet the Precinct 2, and that's in order to facilitate 17 not only retail sales, but also production through the 18 expansion of the wine trail and other efforts. I use 19 this as another example of where the Chamber's standing 20 with respect to facilitating at what we've used as our 21 key industry. 22 So if laws permit, and if -- if the process 23 is available, once again we really support the request 24 being made. Thank you very much. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Connerly(phonetic), 44 1 is that -- 2 MR. CONNALLY: Connally. C-O-N-N-A-L-L-Y. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I kind of 4 have is you can -- come up to the podium, please. 5 Explain a little bit about -- this is the first time 6 I've ever heard of any of these fees. So could you kind 7 of explain the fee structure and the purpose of the 8 fees. 9 MR. CONNALLY: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I've heard of 11 three different permits now that are kind of 12 interrelated. 13 MR. CONNALLY: Sure. Based on the 21st 14 amendment of the United States Constitution which is 15 obviously has to do with beer licensing, alcohol, and 16 what have you, and the industry, etc. Each state is 17 allowed to have an agency to encourage entrepreneurship 18 and commerce and tourism, and all those things by 19 regulating and enforcing the statute established by each 20 state. In this case TABC has all that. What has been 21 established, and not that any of us at TABC are really 22 proponents of having over 70 different permits and 23 licenses, essentially licenses to cover things like beer 24 essentially, and whereas permits are getting into the 25 liquor category. So permits typically are more 45 1 expensive if you're in the manufacturing and, you know, 2 sale of liquor. They're much more expensive than a 3 brewpub for instance, whatever. 4 Now, the gentleman articulated extremely 5 well that the fact that there's a three-tier system in 6 just listening and not being, you know, completely 7 involved in his business, it sounds like that the 8 challenge that he has is that he has had to structure 9 his business, and wisely that he has I think to be able 10 to be in business with the partners that he has, he runs 11 into the challenge of how do I -- how do I be productive 12 and still have to deal with the conflict that there is 13 if in fact it prohibits him from doing his business if 14 he doesn't have somebody in a -- if he crosses over 15 those manufacturing distribution production lines. So 16 it's -- the actual structure and laws are laid out by 17 the legislature. As far as the fees that are 18 established those are established by statute for the 19 State of Texas, so that's not -- TABC doesn't go around 20 and say your fee for having a brewpub is going to be 21 that much. That's -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: May I interrupt you? 23 MR. CONNALLY: Yes, Sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can you tell us the 25 difference in the licenses, what are they for? There 46 1 are three different licenses, and what are they for? 2 MR. CONNALLY: You have licenses for 3 distributing, you have licenses for being a retailer, 4 selling, manufacturing, so -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The cross structure is 6 different on all? 7 MR. CONNALLY: Absolutely. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And why? 9 MR. CONNALLY: Because that's what -- oh, I 10 guess there's economic reasons, maybe some socioeconomic 11 reasons for that. But the the State of Texas, since 12 1935, has established what a brewpub license might be as 13 opposed to what a distillery's license might be, and 14 like I said there's over 70 different licenses. And 15 that's something currently that General Nettles is 16 taking on as far as trying to figure out to how to make 17 that a little more user friendly, because the role of 18 TABC is not just to regulate; more importantly to help 19 facilitate jobs and economic growth and stimulus. Well 20 articulated by the gentleman what he needs from your 21 county government, because we're not going to say -- 22 we're not the one's that can say and you're going to 23 levy this much beyond what the permit or license fee is. 24 This is what the brewpub license fee is, then it's up to 25 you however you're going to tax it in your county, or 47 1 your township, what that will be based on, I guess, the 2 constituency and how much you want to attract other 3 business to your area, that's your call. I can only -- 4 I can address what the legislature has said, what's in 5 the Code to make sure we guide it, protect it, encourage 6 commerce, and on the three-tier without crossing those 7 over because it gets corrupt otherwise. Hopefully 8 that's answering your question. It's more complex than 9 we would like it to be, but it seems to be one that we 10 can enforce, and it encourages those people to do it 11 lawfully. And it holds accountable those people that 12 don't do it lawfully. Does that make sense? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it does. And the 14 question that I had was is there -- do other communities 15 go in and specifically change one of the three, and not 16 change all three of them? That's the first question, 17 and then is there any, I guess, precedent or -- if you 18 do one, do you have to do them all, or you just go in 19 and do whatever you want? Or can we -- 20 MR. CONNALLY: First of all, I can neither 21 confirm nor deny the fact that other counties do certain 22 things; however, I do know what the statute cites. And 23 it cites that the Commissioners' Court of a county can 24 do within that range of zero to 50 percent as they see 25 fit with the type of permits that are established by the 48 1 state fee system. Does that make sense? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 MR. CONNALLY: It's y'all's call; not 4 TABC'c. Outside of you can't change the price of a 5 license so to speak. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is not going to 7 make or break our county, but it is going to set a 8 precedent for a particular kind of business. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER REEVES: If I may, 11 Commissioner. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: What it's sounding 14 like to me is that we give incentives to various 15 businesses trying to attract, trying to retain. It's 16 sounding like in the event with Walt and Charlie, I'm 17 assuming on the economic development part as well as 18 Commissioner Moser and Letz, that we're looking more for 19 a policy to provide incentives not for a specific 20 business such as the Pint & Plow, which incidentally I 21 didn't know there was a good gluten free pizza until I 22 came to your place. Of course Janet had to teach me 23 what gluten free was, but none the less, y'all -- I 24 think everybody here is more than one specific business 25 of a way to attract industry here, and Charlie can help 49 1 me. Am I talking, Charlie, about is it new money? In 2 other words by some of this bringing money that normally 3 wouldn't come to Kerrville? 4 MR. MCILVAIN: That's exactly right. 5 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's what y'all are 6 looking for from the craft that -- 7 MR. MCILVAIN: Yes, Sir, that's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And so would this not 9 be unlike some type of other economic incentive if we 10 set down and said if you meet X, Y and Z. Most of our's 11 are tied to new employment, but there could be other 12 ways that if we developed a policy through the 13 cooperation of Economic Development Corporation, the 14 Chamber, the CVB, our legal part of it, where it's 15 not -- I'm not for just giving it to one, but if it's an 16 economic incentive of new money and, you know, I'd like 17 to see what the projections are. I know they're only 18 projections, and those projections and three dollars 19 will get you a cup of coffee, too at the Pint & Plow, 20 but still we gotta have something to work with, and 21 that's what I would like to see rather than making a up 22 or down decision today, and let's come up with a policy 23 that we can study and believe whether it's in our best 24 interest to adopt such policy for other future 25 businesses. 50 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me make a 2 recommendation; not a proposal or anything. And I think 3 you made some very good points there, and I think that 4 kind of the context in which we set this it's 5 economically -- it's a target, okay, for improvement for 6 the community as Walt and Charlie discussed with the -- 7 with the alcoholic beverage sales in Precinct 2, with 8 the wine trails, with Craft Agriculture things. I think 9 that we need to adopt a policy. I think we need to have 10 a Resolution which clearly captures this. I don't 11 think -- I don't think we oughta have anything to do 12 today with approval or disapproving the request of the 13 reduced permit fee at this time from one entity, but I 14 think it needs to be broader than that, and working with 15 the Tax Assessor Collector and the County Attorney to 16 see if we can't draft a policy and resolution consistent 17 with where we want to go, and with some supporting 18 information on how big this could be and what it should 19 be. 20 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I really would like to 21 agree with our county people, but the experts that are 22 representing tourism, Chamber of Commerce, etc., and I'd 23 like their input on it, too. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh sure. 25 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Frankly they have more 51 1 experience or can reach out to their contemporaries to 2 see what's going on as well. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Agree with you as well. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Sounds like, and 5 I agree, that the course is to direct Mr. Walther to 6 work with the Visitors Bureau, Chamber, Commissioner 7 Moser, you will be involved with this, and the County 8 Attorney, to come up with a policy that will impact -- 9 COMMISSIONER REEVES: That we can start 10 from. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- this type of 12 business, and along with economic development, rather 13 than just take a shot in the dark. I agree with that. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Then you need a legal 15 description of whatever this Craft Agriculture or 16 whatever it is. Is there -- isn't that right? 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. Well, I think -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If you're going to 19 categorize them -- 20 MRS. STEBBINS: There will have to be a 21 description in whatever policy, which is probably what 22 would be along like how the TABC defines it. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, is that going to 24 be -- I've heard a couple of different terms in here 25 today -- 52 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Exactly. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- agriculture, I've 3 heard craft brewery, and these different terms thrown 4 around. I don't know that they can be separated, I 5 don't know if there's a broad category that the state 6 looks at, but that's the first thing we need to find 7 out. How many of them there are, what's the legal 8 description of them, because if we're going to have a 9 cutout for some particular group that gets a -- gets at 10 least looked at for a tax break, whether they get it or 11 not is another question, then you have to determine who 12 they are. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Exactly. 14 MS. DIANE BOLIN: Exactly. We have to know 15 what to charge per permit. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Exactly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we need to look at 18 the specific permit within the county, and then come up 19 with, you know -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, if you're going 21 to have a policy it has to speak to everybody that's in 22 that category. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're wanting to avoid 25 doing it for just one. 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're all saying 2 the same thing. I think move in the direction, that it 3 sounds like we're all in favor of looking at reducing 4 permit fees for this type of a business, but we need a 5 policy to be able to do it. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So let's say for -- 7 I'll be happy to take some action with Walt, and the 8 Convention Bureau, and the County Attorney, and Tax 9 Assessor Collector, and with Jeremy, and with whomever 10 to draft this policy and bring it back to Commissioners' 11 Court in the form of a Resolution or whatever's 12 appropriate. 13 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And if I could ask 14 Jeremy just to clarify one thing. You mentioned 15 there's -- you could have had three choices. If you did 16 not have the cross influence from some of your 17 investors, and it's all coming because the State law 18 that because investor was involved with this distillery 19 or something else, that's why the license tier had to go 20 higher. You could have chose just to serve beer at your 21 restaurant that you manufacture if you didn't have those 22 investors, is that what -- 23 MR. WALTHER: As far as I understand TABC 24 code our options because we manufacture beer, so that of 25 the 75 permits and licenses, that he's talking about 54 1 some of them are to, you know, to have a winery. And 2 incidently the permit for a winery isn't 35 hundred 3 dollars; it's a $175.00, I believe, at the state level. 4 MR. CONNALLY: It's different, yeah. 5 MR. WALTHER: They're manufacturing wine; 6 we're manufacturing beer. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Lobbyists. 8 MR. WALTHER: So to answer your question, so 9 we really have kind of narrowed it down to two options 10 as far as I understand it. The Brewer's Permit happens 11 to fall in the manufacturing tier. The Brewpub license 12 falls in the retail tier, even though it operationally 13 nothing would change for us, and we are actually looking 14 into changing our license at the state level from 15 brewer's permit to brewpub. We're having some investor 16 changes, but it also frees us up to do a few more things 17 that we currently can't do. So it's, you know, that's 18 kind of where we came down to. So I think at the 19 suggestion -- it sounds like the Court all agrees to 20 make this more of a policy like thing, and I fully 21 support that, and I'll do everything I can to help that. 22 But I think it might be little bit easier than it might 23 sound. You go down that list of 75 permits and licenses 24 and you identify the ones that are actually creating 25 something, you know, they're actually manufacturing 55 1 something. They're making wine, they're making liquor, 2 they're making beer. They are -- or whatever that 3 parameter is that aligns with this, you know, with this 4 Craft Agricultural Committee that, you know, that's 5 trying to attract more. And those are the -- those 6 permit holders are the ones that you're giving them, you 7 know, this break to. 8 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I would like to do as 9 we suggested, a committee and then come back with after 10 they can do some more formal research. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Come back as quickly as 12 we can. I don't know if we can do it by January the 13 8th, but we'll target that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Look forward to hearing 15 back. Thank you, Jeremy. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Does anybody else have 17 anything else they want to comment? 18 MR. WALTHER: We appreciate the 19 consideration. We're certainly willing to help. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, and now call 21 1.3 again you said. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Consider, discuss and 24 take appropriate action regarding planned resignation 25 and filling the position for Kerr County Constable 56 1 Precinct 2. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. I still have the 3 opinion that you -- that you can accept his resignation 4 after the day of the resignation; however, a rule states 5 that it can -- is also effective either the date that he 6 has made that resignation, or 8 days after the receipt 7 of the resignation, I think the effect is 8 inconsequential, because once you accept it he still has 9 to carry over office until someone is appropriately 10 appointed. So you can accept the resignation today; 11 however, it has been effective 8 days after he submitted 12 that resignation, which was November -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 27th. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: -- November 27th. But he's 15 still carrying over office until someone's appointed. 16 So at this time if you want to formally accept the 17 resignation you can do the appropriate advertising as 18 you've suggested, if you'd like to. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So what you just 20 said is we can accept the resignation now, and then we 21 can move forward with announcing and advertising for 22 that position. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: Uh-huh. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I would make -- 25 okay, go ahead. 57 1 MRS. STEBBINS: And I think that we've had 2 some conversation about it being effective either, you 3 know, on the date that it was submitted or immediately, 4 but I think that there -- what we had talked about was 5 there were some different facts that came in about sort 6 of ousting someone from their position earlier than they 7 wanted to be ousted, but those aren't the same 8 circumstances here with Mr. Hicks. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So if we accept the 10 resignation effective today, okay we do that, then does 11 the Constable continue to serve in that capacity until 12 we appoint somebody else? 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. Until they are 14 appropriately appointed, yes, and sworn into office. 15 COMMISSIONER REEVES: Including any deputies 16 that may be under his -- 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good point. Good 19 point. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would recommend, 21 Commissioner, that we accept the resignation just to be 22 able to clear per his letter of 27th, and not give a 23 date, just say we're accepting it per his submission of 24 that letter. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You want to make that 58 1 motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I make a motion 4 that we accept -- just in the interest of time and 5 words, that we accept the resignation from Charlie Hicks 6 as the Kerr County Precinct 2 Constable effective today, 7 that his letter of intention was dated November the 8 27th, 2017 and that we proceed to advertise this 9 position, okay, so to consider applicants, and form a 10 committee to evaluate those applications. And I would 11 recommend that the committee be comprised of myself, the 12 Precinct 2 Justice of the Peace, the Sheriff, and the 13 head of Human Resources to evaluate those and bring 14 those recommendations back to Commissioners' Court. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: At the next meeting? 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: At the next meeting on 17 January the 8th. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: The application? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let's see, that's 20 going to be pretty short to get the -- by January the 21 25th. I think that would be 22nd. 22 MRS. GRINSTEAD: 22nd. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 22nd, yeah. Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER REEVES: And a more reasonable 25 time for it. 59 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I think so, too 2 by the time you advertise. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I feel like the County 4 Attorney wants to say something. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: It's just clear that Mr. 6 Hicks will carry over until that time until a person is 7 appointed. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. And he's 9 nodding yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion. Do we 11 have a second? 12 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I will second that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion from 14 Commissioner Moser, second from Commissioner Reeves that 15 we accept the resignation of Constable Hicks per his 16 letter of November 27th, and we authorize the HR 17 Department to advertise for individuals that may be 18 interested in being appointed to fill that position, and 19 the applicants will be reviewed by Commissioner Moser, 20 Judge Hoyne, Sheriff Hierholzer, HR director Lantz, and 21 come back to the Court with a recommendation by our 22 January 22nd meeting. Did I get it all? 23 COMMISSIONER REEVES: It's good with me. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All in favor of the 60 1 motion raise your right hand. It's unanimous. Thank 2 you. 3 We need to go back to item -- payroll, 4.4 4 under payroll. 5 MRS. DOSS: We have one additional payroll 6 check that needs to be issued. An employee came in and 7 canceled benefit coverage for his family so we need to 8 refund the insurance check, so we will be issuing an 9 additional check for $373.04. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MRS. DOSS: And that will be added to the 12 payroll. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I make a motion that we 14 accept the -- 15 MRS. DOSS: Additional payroll check. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Additional payroll 17 amount. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I'll second it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 20 Belew, and second by Commissioner Reeves to accept an 21 additional payroll amount in the amount of $373.04. All 22 in favor raise your right hand. Unanimous. 23 We're adjourned. Thank you. 24 * * * * * * 25 61 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Reporter in and for Kerr County Commissioners' Court, do 6 hereby certify that the above and foregoing pages 7 contain and comprise a true and correct transcription of 8 the proceedings had in the above-entitled Commissioners' 9 Court. 10 Dated this the 5th day of January, A.D. 11 2018. 12 13 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 No. 953 Expiration Date 12/31/2018 15 * * * * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25