1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Special Session 5 Monday, August 5, 2019 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge 24 HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 25 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 2 1 INDEX 2 NO. Page 3 1.1 Pay Bills. 3 4 1.2 Budget Amendments 3 5 1.3 Late Bills 4 6 1.4 Court Orders. 4 7 1.5 Discussion regarding revisions to the Kerr County Subdivision Regulations; 8 Public Hearing set for August 19, 2019 At 9:00 a.m. 8 9 1.6 Approval of Hiring of 4-H youth educator 4 10 5.1 Reports regarding Commissioners/Liaison 11 Committee Assignments 79 12 *** Adjournment 88 13 *** Reporter's Certificate 89 14 15 * * * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 09:00AM 25 3 09:00AM 1 JUDGE KELLY: The Commissioners' Court, 09:00AM 2 Kerr County, is now in session. It is Monday, August 09:00AM 3 the 5th, 2019 at 9 o'clock in the morning. 09:00AM 4 Commissioner Harris is not with us today. 09:00AM 5 He is fishing at the coast. This is an annual fishing 09:00AM 6 trip so we wish him the best. 09:00AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So there will be a 09:00AM 8 fish fry sometime? 09:00AM 9 JUDGE KELLY: That's up to him. Sometimes 09:00AM 10 I don't share my fish. 09:00AM 11 Let's start with Approval Docket. No. 1.1 09:01AM 12 will be pay the bills. 09:01AM 13 MRS. JOHNSON: Good morning. For Kerr 09:01AM 14 County we have $217,126.74; for the airport, $10,980.62; 09:01AM 15 Fund 78, county clerk fees, $85.88. 09:01AM 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move we pay the 09:01AM 17 bills. 09:01AM 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 09:01AM 19 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 09:01AM 20 Commission Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to pay 09:01AM 21 the bills. Is there any discussion? All those in favor 09:01AM 22 raise your hand. Unanimous 4-0. 09:01AM 23 Next on the agenda is 1.2, budget 09:01AM 24 amendments. 09:01AM 25 MRS. JOHNSON: There is none. 4 09:01AM 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 1.3 late bills. 09:01AM 2 MRS. JOHNSON: Yes, there are three. Total 09:01AM 3 is $65,401.39. 09:01AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the late 09:01AM 5 bills. 09:01AM 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 09:01AM 7 JUDGE KELLY: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 09:01AM 8 seconded by Commissioner Belew to pay the late bills. 09:01AM 9 Is there any discussion? All those in favor raise your 09:01AM 10 hand. Unanimous 4-0. 09:01AM 11 Court orders. 09:02AM 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, we have court 09:02AM 13 orders. One here from the July 29th and July 31st, 09:02AM 14 special meetings, and the Court Orders 37605 and then 09:02AM 15 37609, and we need to approve those. 09:02AM 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 09:02AM 17 JUDGE KELLY: Moved my Commissioner Letz, 09:02AM 18 seconded by Commissioner Moser to approve the court 09:02AM 19 orders. Any discussion? Those in favor raise your 09:02AM 20 hand. 4-0 unanimous. 09:02AM 21 1.5 discussion regarding revisions to the 09:02AM 22 Kerr County -- let's skip over that and go to 1.6. 09:02AM 23 We'll come back to 1.5. 09:02AM 24 1.6 is to consider, discuss and take 09:02AM 25 appropriate action regarding the approval of hiring a 5 09:02AM 1 Kerr County 4-H agent. 09:02AM 2 Roy Walston. 09:02AM 3 MR. WALSTON: Good morning. Thank you, 09:02AM 4 Judge, Commissioners, appreciate y'all taking the time 09:02AM 5 this morning. We are glad to be here this morning and 09:02AM 6 present our applicant for our 4-H Youth Educator 09:03AM 7 position for the extension office. We have got Jennifer 09:03AM 8 Smith. Jennifer is a parent with kids in the 4-H 09:03AM 9 program, currently resides in Boerne. She's -- 09:03AM 10 JUDGE KELLY: We're sorry about that, our 09:03AM 11 condolences. 09:03AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You can move. 09:03AM 13 MR. WALSTON: She has been an AG teacher in 09:03AM 14 Merriam for three years, previously. She's now employed 09:03AM 15 there in Boerne. And so we are glad to have Jennifer 09:03AM 16 and she's -- she has been coaching several of the 4-H 09:03AM 17 teams over in Kendall County. So I am glad to steal her 09:03AM 18 away from Stephen and that bunch. So she's been very 09:03AM 19 successful and came with a lot of positive comments and 09:03AM 20 a lot of good recommendations. 09:03AM 21 So with that, I would ask for y'all's 09:03AM 22 approval with -- for Jennifer Smith. Do you have any 09:04AM 23 questions? 09:04AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have to approve 09:04AM 25 that or is that -- 6 09:04AM 1 JUDGE KELLY: I think it's a matter of the 09:04AM 2 Court. 09:04AM 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 09:04AM 4 approve Jennifer Smith as the -- 09:04AM 5 JUDGE KELLY: I will second that. 09:04AM 6 Commissioner Letz has moved and I have seconded to 09:04AM 7 approve the hiring of Jennifer Smith as our 4-H County 09:04AM 8 agent. Those in favor raise your hand. 09:04AM 9 Welcome. 09:04AM 10 MS. SMITH: Thank you. 09:04AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm going to apologize to 09:04AM 12 Judge Lux. 09:04AM 13 MS. SMITH: Okay. (Laughing) 09:04AM 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Question: I was 09:04AM 15 talking to somebody, as a matter of fact the Judge and I 09:04AM 16 was talking to a lady, that moved to Kerrville four 09:04AM 17 years ago, and she's an applicant for being in the 09:04AM 18 Veteran's Service office. She moved from San Antonio to 09:04AM 19 Kerrville, had never heard of 4-H. So I have got an 09:04AM 20 observation. She is really involved in 4-H now with her 09:04AM 21 two children, but how do we get the word out about 4-H? 09:04AM 22 MR. WALSTON: Well, it has been said we are 09:05AM 23 one of the best kept secrets. 09:05AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's not good. 09:05AM 25 MR. WALSTON: Unfortunately that's one of 7 09:05AM 1 the things that we try to do, especially, this time of 09:05AM 2 year, we will have -- we publicize and put word out on, 09:05AM 3 we have got a big bash that we invite the public to 09:05AM 4 bring their kids and parents to come out and spend an 09:05AM 5 evening and we have everything set up. 09:05AM 6 You know, we try to get out in the schools 09:05AM 7 prior to and get information out to the parents that 09:05AM 8 away. You know, it's, I think, with today's busy 09:05AM 9 schedules a lot of times people kind of get their 09:05AM 10 blinders on and they're busy doing their thing and they 09:05AM 11 don't see what else is going on or they may see it, but 09:05AM 12 don't realize really what it is. 09:05AM 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, she's a super 09:05AM 14 strong advocate and can't say enough good things about 09:05AM 15 4-H. And I thought it was a very interesting story that 09:06AM 16 she had not -- never heard of it in the San Antonio 09:06AM 17 area. So -- and so she is -- might talk to her or 09:06AM 18 something like that, but anyway I'll give her her name 09:06AM 19 later. 09:06AM 20 MR. WALSTON: Yeah, it's unusual. It's 09:06AM 21 hard for us to believe people don't realize, don't know 09:06AM 22 that 4-H is going on with all the media and the 09:06AM 23 newspapers and all the wild game dinner and everything. 09:06AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But see they relate, I 09:06AM 25 think, she did, she related 4-H to animals, you know, 8 09:06AM 1 FFA, and she said it's not. You know, that's the 09:06AM 2 message to get out, also. 09:06AM 3 Anyway, welcome. 09:06AM 4 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 09:06AM 5 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Welcome. 09:06AM 6 MS. SMITH: Thank you. 09:06AM 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Let's go back to 1.5. 09:06AM 8 It's going to take a little while, I think we've got a 09:06AM 9 lot of people here to talk about it, discussion 09:06AM 10 regarding revisions to the Kerr County Subdivision 09:06AM 11 Regulations. 09:06AM 12 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. We met earlier 09:07AM 13 in the year and set dates for this workshop and, also, 09:07AM 14 for a public hearing that is scheduled for later in this 09:07AM 15 month, I believe, August 19th. My understanding is we 09:07AM 16 are going to need a second public hearing to go with 09:07AM 17 that, that has not been scheduled yet. So there is time 09:07AM 18 for people to get their comments in. Certainly today 09:07AM 19 and then certainly at one or both of the public hearings 09:07AM 20 that we have. 09:07AM 21 And then, of course, there is -- I have 09:07AM 22 been working with the county surveyor. I have been 09:07AM 23 working with the other department heads. And so today 09:07AM 24 we are going to talk about that and try to walk you 09:07AM 25 through what has been done since we last met. 9 09:07AM 1 When we last met we had comments that came 09:07AM 2 directly from the court. I have incorporated those 09:07AM 3 comments into the document that you have in front of 09:07AM 4 you. We made a PDF out of that after those got 09:07AM 5 incorporated. I had, also, incorporated comments that I 09:07AM 6 had, at the time, received from the county surveyor and 09:08AM 7 then posted it to our website under the county engineer 09:08AM 8 department. And so people had access to that for 09:08AM 9 probably three or four weeks now and had an opportunity 09:08AM 10 if they knew about it to go there and download it and 09:08AM 11 start reviewing it, but if they haven't they can do that 09:08AM 12 still today. 09:08AM 13 As I walk you through I thought I would try 09:08AM 14 and make this quick, because I know we've got a lot of 09:08AM 15 ground to cover. I am going to go through the areas 09:08AM 16 that I think are probably the most important. I want to 09:08AM 17 remind you that a lot of the changes that we made in 09:08AM 18 here were either because of typos or it was a 09:08AM 19 clarification as to policy that has already been 09:08AM 20 established or past practices, court decisions that were 09:08AM 21 made -- this Court has made during subdivision that had 09:08AM 22 come before them. And so those kind of comments got 09:08AM 23 incorporated into this document just so that we are all 09:09AM 24 on the same page, we're doing the same thing that we 09:09AM 25 just did three months ago or three years ago, that sort 10 09:09AM 1 of thing. 09:09AM 2 So I am going to start on -- let's see, 09:09AM 3 okay. 09:09AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie, before we go 09:09AM 5 into that. 09:09AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 09:09AM 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me just mention 09:09AM 8 something the Judge mentioned before court to me. You 09:09AM 9 know, I think a big picture as to why we even have these 09:09AM 10 rules and why they're important and worth while to go 09:09AM 11 over and how we got to this draft. And this won't take 09:09AM 12 long, we can do it in five minutes, but Kerr County 09:09AM 13 originally wrote a set of rules in 1983 and they were 09:09AM 14 very basic rules. The problem with that, we didn't have 09:09AM 15 them. In the late 90s, the Court undertook to look at 09:09AM 16 those old rules and really trying to update them. And 09:09AM 17 these are kind of -- that's kind of the skeleton that 09:09AM 18 these rules are based off of. But what we basically 09:10AM 19 did, we took the State law, which is Chapter 232, and 09:10AM 20 pretty much incorporated, took those rules put them into 09:10AM 21 a Kerr County format and then got with the road and 09:10AM 22 bridge department on roads -- how the roads should be 09:10AM 23 built and some of that type of stuff. And the reason it 09:10AM 24 was done is twofold, one, we had had a lot of 09:10AM 25 substandard roads and we wanted to really clarify that. 11 09:10AM 1 We changed the policy that says for a while there was a 09:10AM 2 period where developers to spend less money, in my 09:10AM 3 opinion it's opinion saving, but spend less money they 09:10AM 4 would put in private roads and then put in basically a 09:10AM 5 trail. And the big change that we did in the late 90s, 09:10AM 6 I think it was '99 somewhere in there, was that if you 09:10AM 7 build a road in a subdivision it has to be the same 09:10AM 8 standard. We don't care if it's a county road or a 09:10AM 9 private road, it's going to be built the same way. We 09:10AM 10 are tired of having these roads falling apart and then 09:11AM 11 have to deal with it. And that's kind of how we got it 09:11AM 12 really because of a lot of substandard subdivisions in 09:11AM 13 the county we came up with the rules and we really 09:11AM 14 haven't changed them a whole lot since then. We have 09:11AM 15 changed and tweaked and looked at water availability and 09:11AM 16 lot size and all this stuff. That's kind of how we got 09:11AM 17 to these, and so the big rewrite was late, I think, 09:11AM 18 '98 or '99 somewhere. And then updated it several times 09:11AM 19 since then. 09:11AM 20 The importance of it is to follow State law 09:11AM 21 that we adopted and then roads and then tweak it for our 09:11AM 22 benefit. 09:11AM 23 JUDGE KELLY: And uniform it. 09:11AM 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And uniform it. 09:11AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, from the time 12 09:11AM 1 that this was adopted the road specks modified but not 09:11AM 2 necessarily subdivision rules, too? 09:11AM 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The State law says that 09:11AM 4 we can only require, and I'm going to paraphrase this, 09:11AM 5 we cannot require stricter standards on developers than 09:11AM 6 we would require on our ourselves. So at that time 09:12AM 7 basically Lynn Odorom (phonetic) decided these are -- 09:12AM 8 these -- you know, the criteria for roads they need to 09:12AM 9 be this way. And knowing that if we redid them 09:12AM 10 ourselves then they would be done to the same standard. 09:12AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Yeah, the 09:12AM 12 reason I asked is because a personal thing in a 09:12AM 13 subdivision put in roads in '98 probably to county 09:12AM 14 specks and then thinking, you know, some day we would 09:12AM 15 make that a county road, well, the county upped their 09:12AM 16 standards after that. And so my question is: Was that 09:12AM 17 a change in the subdivision or is that something that 09:12AM 18 the county could do on its road requirements? And I 09:12AM 19 don't know that it really makes a lot of difference 09:12AM 20 here, but it's something to think about, I guess. 09:12AM 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have standards 09:13AM 22 outside of our subdivision rules. I mean, so because 09:13AM 23 there in subdivision rules those are the same standards 09:13AM 24 we have to do everywhere. 09:13AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, gotcha. Well, 13 09:13AM 1 that answers the question. Okay. Thanks. 09:13AM 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Charlie, 09:13AM 3 that's all I got. 09:13AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: That's fine. 09:13AM 5 On Page 16 I would like to get some 09:13AM 6 direction on the -- we have got, we start talking about 09:13AM 7 density and how many lots you can have in a subdivision. 09:13AM 8 We now are building this East Kerr County waste water 09:13AM 9 system, that's kind of changing the face of Center Point 09:13AM 10 and that surrounding area and it's giving some 09:13AM 11 opportunity for some denser development that we really 09:13AM 12 haven't had that opportunity before. And so we have had 09:13AM 13 some discussions and in there -- in this paragraph I 09:13AM 14 have circled this 1, 2, 3, 4 about the 5th line down, 09:13AM 15 Shall not exceed total acreage subdivision divided by 09:13AM 16 one-half. So that's the total number of lots shall not 09:14AM 17 exceed the total acreage in the subdivision divided by 09:14AM 18 one-half and I am looking for direction from you-all as 09:14AM 19 to is that -- is that too dense or do we need to back 09:14AM 20 off and do something different? 09:14AM 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Take the case in point 09:14AM 22 or a case, okay. In Center Point it's proposed there's 09:14AM 23 a concept on developing, I forgot how many acres is in 09:14AM 24 that, is it about -- 09:14AM 25 MR. HASTINGS: I think he had five or 14 09:14AM 1 eight. 09:14AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Five acres or 09:14AM 3 something, let's just call it five acres. And so -- 09:14AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: It was, I think it was half. 09:14AM 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- if you did this by 09:14AM 6 half they said he could only subdivide to two and a half 09:14AM 7 acres? Is that what this says? 09:14AM 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 09:14AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: No, it would be 10. 09:14AM 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 acres. If it was 09:14AM 11 five acres it would be 10 acres. 09:14AM 12 MR. HASTINGS: Five divided by a half would 09:14AM 13 be 10. 09:14AM 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Five divided by two 09:14AM 15 is -- 09:14AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's divided by 09:14AM 17 half. 09:14AM 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Divide by a half, 09:14AM 19 okay. 09:14AM 20 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 09:14AM 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So -- 09:14AM 22 JUDGE KELLY: Those are half acre lots. 09:14AM 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: For half acre lot. 09:15AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, okay. 09:15AM 25 MR. HASTINGS: You come up with an average 15 09:15AM 1 of half acre lots. 09:15AM 2 JUDGE KELLY: Which is pretty dense. 09:15AM 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now then, that's 09:15AM 4 pretty dense, but we have a lot of properties in 09:15AM 5 Center Point that are a lot less than half an acre, 09:15AM 6 okay. 09:15AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 09:15AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And now -- and they 09:15AM 9 are on septic systems. So we are going -- the objective 09:15AM 10 is to eliminate those septic systems which we'll do, 09:15AM 11 okay. And let's just say that those -- 09:15AM 12 MR. HASTINGS: And that proposed 09:15AM 13 subdivision you're talking about was going to tie onto 09:15AM 14 the sewer system, as well. 09:15AM 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right, I 09:15AM 16 understand. But I'm talking about the older properties, 09:15AM 17 okay. 09:15AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 09:15AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we are telling this 09:15AM 20 person you can't -- you can't go as low as a lot, a lot 09:15AM 21 of the properties in Center Point if you go down to the 09:15AM 22 half acre -- 09:15AM 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 09:15AM 24 MR. HASTINGS: And just so -- 09:15AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So where does -- where 16 09:15AM 1 do we get a half an acre? 09:15AM 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me go back a little 09:15AM 3 bit, of course, this is a slippery slope, I'm afraid. 09:15AM 4 JUDGE KELLY: It is. 09:15AM 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We get -- counties do 09:15AM 6 not have a -- generally, do not have authority to limit 09:16AM 7 lot size. That's just a fact. We have septic rules -- 09:16AM 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What do you mean by 09:16AM 9 "generally," I don't think we have it at all? 09:16AM 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we do have. 09:16AM 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: In what way? 09:16AM 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under the case wherein 09:16AM 13 a priority groundwater management designated by the 09:16AM 14 State that gives us the ability. 09:16AM 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's an exception 09:16AM 16 then. 09:16AM 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's why I say 09:16AM 18 "generally," and there's not that many people that are 09:16AM 19 in a priority groundwater management area in something 09:16AM 20 like that. So general -- you know, without having that 09:16AM 21 special authority you go by septic rules. That kind of 09:16AM 22 is how you determine, you know, lot size. We have 09:16AM 23 gotten to a five-acre lot size on water availability, as 09:16AM 24 have all of our neighboring counties are feeling the 09:16AM 25 same thing. They are all in the same priority 17 09:16AM 1 groundwater management area. So we have to remember 09:16AM 2 that, you know, I am concerned that if we go, you know, 09:16AM 3 if we don't have a rational as to why we are going to 09:17AM 4 that density on a water availability standpoint I see 09:17AM 5 that we can be -- need a little bit arbitrary. 09:17AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think this 09:17AM 7 says, though, that if you have water supply through some 09:17AM 8 certain -- 09:17AM 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's still groundwater. 09:17AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. But I 09:17AM 11 still don't see where half acre comes in. Why isn't it 09:17AM 12 a third of an acre? 09:17AM 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The minimum lot size is 09:17AM 14 a third, it's an average we are talking about here. 09:17AM 15 MR. HASTINGS: The density. 09:17AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The density. If you 09:17AM 17 can get 10 lots you can have a third -- 09:17AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: What we are proposing in 09:17AM 19 these rules right now is that the minimum lot size be 09:17AM 20 one-third of an acre. And that was based on drainage, 09:17AM 21 detention, lot frontage on a road. If you -- when it's 09:17AM 22 smaller than a third acre you're going to have trouble 09:17AM 23 meeting some other requirements that are in the 09:17AM 24 subdivision regulations. So a third acre was -- we came 09:17AM 25 up with this being that's the smallest it can be. And 18 09:17AM 1 now we are talking about the density of the whole five 09:18AM 2 acres that you are developing. How many lots can you 09:18AM 3 have? What is proposed is in that case would be 10, 10 09:18AM 4 lots, an average of half an acre. None of those lots 09:18AM 5 being less than a third of an acre. So if we had one or 09:18AM 6 two lots that are a third of an acre than one or two 09:18AM 7 need to be bigger. 09:18AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm still having 09:18AM 9 trouble, why isn't a third of an acre okay? And let me 09:18AM 10 tell you the reason I ask this. 09:18AM 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water availability is 09:18AM 12 part of it. 09:18AM 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, the -- 09:18AM 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Not ruled out 09:18AM 15 entirely -- 09:18AM 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Hold on just a second. 09:18AM 17 Do we have anything that says water availability in this 09:18AM 18 particular thing is an issue? 09:18AM 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, because that's how 09:18AM 20 we have lot sizes. Without water availability we don't 09:18AM 21 have lot size -- 09:18AM 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, but I understand 09:18AM 23 -- 09:18AM 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- anyone in the 09:18AM 25 county. 19 09:18AM 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- in the analysis it 09:18AM 2 says it's a half acre versus a third of an acre on water 09:18AM 3 availability. 09:18AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You want to go to half 09:18AM 5 acre lots countywide? 09:18AM 6 JUDGE KELLY: Nope. 09:18AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nope, no I don't. I 09:18AM 8 agree -- 09:18AM 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It really has to do 09:18AM 10 with water availability, you already said that. 09:18AM 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 09:18AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I agree with five 09:18AM 13 acres. I agree with five acres outside of something 09:18AM 14 like this, but in a more dense area in particular in the 09:19AM 15 thing that -- one of the issues at hand is I haven't 09:19AM 16 seen anything that says a third of an acre in the 09:19AM 17 development of this region, okay, higher density region, 09:19AM 18 isn't okay for the current water that is available. 09:19AM 19 Where -- so where is -- 09:19AM 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have -- we are 09:19AM 21 using Headwaters' rules to get to five acres. 09:19AM 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I am okay with 09:19AM 23 five acres. I am now talking about -- 09:19AM 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the same number. 09:19AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: --half acre versus a 20 09:19AM 1 third of an acre. 09:19AM 2 MR. HASTINGS: So our current regulations 09:19AM 3 right now, right now, state that the minimum lot size is 09:19AM 4 a quarter of an acre, but your density would be the 09:19AM 5 acreage divided by two. So in that scenario with the 09:19AM 6 gentleman with five acres right now under our current 09:19AM 7 regulations he can only have two lots. 09:19AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, I am not for 09:19AM 9 that. 09:19AM 10 MR. HASTINGS: So we were saying, you know, 09:19AM 11 quarter of an acre is too small because it presents -- 09:19AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it. Got it. 09:19AM 13 MR. HASTINGS: -- other issues. So what's 09:19AM 14 the smallest a lot can be to satisfy other regulations? 09:20AM 15 And now we are talking about the density because we do 09:20AM 16 have water availability requirements in Kerr County that 09:20AM 17 we adopted, and these subdivision regulations were 09:20AM 18 written and the lot sizes were written to mirror that. 09:20AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, but we said we 09:20AM 20 hadn't done anything that said that a third-of-an-acre 09:20AM 21 average in that development, but no Letz said -- 09:20AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: But, no, I think the way 09:20AM 23 that we get there is through our model subdivision 09:20AM 24 regulations that it does require that the developer do a 09:20AM 25 whole lot of engineering homework to prove up that their 21 09:20AM 1 water supply is going to be able to support the density. 09:20AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, how is he going 09:20AM 3 to do that? 09:20AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: He has to hire an engineer 09:20AM 5 that is going to approve that. 09:20AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So why don't we put 09:20AM 7 that in here if he's going to go down to a 09:20AM 8 third-of-an-acre? 09:20AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: It is. It's in the 09:20AM 10 regulations right now. 09:20AM 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay, so let me -- let 09:20AM 12 me see if I am following this. If you are talking about 09:20AM 13 somebody like a water provider, like, take for example, 09:21AM 14 Aqua Source, versus a community well, is that what you 09:21AM 15 are -- is that the distinction you're making there when 09:21AM 16 you are talking about water availability? It sounds 09:21AM 17 like you're talking about somebody way out away from -- 09:21AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: Oh no, the water 09:21AM 19 availability is how much water do we have in the ground. 09:21AM 20 How much water is in the ground. And I believe that 09:21AM 21 Headwaters had done some studies in the past that prove 09:21AM 22 that, Guys, if we don't -- if we don't have some kind of 09:21AM 23 restrictions on lot sizes we are going to run out of 09:21AM 24 water in this county. 09:21AM 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Now, some of 22 09:21AM 1 these places we're talking about where there's 09:21AM 2 subdivisions there is a water source where they pay for 09:21AM 3 their water. 09:21AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 09:21AM 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's a different 09:21AM 6 animal. 09:21AM 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's still 09:21AM 8 groundwater. 09:21AM 9 MS. BADDERS: It is still groundwater. 09:21AM 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that. 09:21AM 11 MR. HASTINGS: It's still groundwater -- 09:21AM 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The distinction needs 09:21AM 13 to be made in these rules -- 09:21AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: I'll get there, the model 09:21AM 15 subdivision regulations -- 09:21AM 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- so when you're 09:21AM 17 talking about -- so to we keep up with what you are 09:21AM 18 talking about it, if you'd do that for me I would 09:21AM 19 appreciate it -- 09:21AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm trying -- 09:21AM 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Because it doesn't 09:21AM 22 make a difference. I am getting water from Aqua Source, 09:21AM 23 that's a different kind of thing than me having a 09:21AM 24 community well or having my own well on five acres. 09:21AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But -- 23 09:22AM 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They are all 09:22AM 2 different. It's all groundwater, I get that, but it is 09:22AM 3 still -- has to be dealt with differently in the rules. 09:22AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: The way it's dealt with 09:22AM 5 differently in our rules is that if you are going to 09:22AM 6 start from scratch and put your own new water system in 09:22AM 7 you've got some requirements under the model subdivision 09:22AM 8 regulations that you are going to have to prove up that 09:22AM 9 the water is there and that there would be -- 09:22AM 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 09:22AM 11 MR. HASTINGS: -- a 30-year guarantee that 09:22AM 12 it's going to be there. If you're going to get your 09:22AM 13 water from an existing water source such as Aqua Texas 09:22AM 14 or Aqua Source or Ginko (phonetic) Water Works then that 09:22AM 15 -- then that same type of guarantee has to come from 09:22AM 16 that water provider -- 09:22AM 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, okay. 09:22AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 09:22AM 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- but not the person 09:22AM 20 putting in the subdivision? In other words, I would get 09:22AM 21 that from a third party? 09:22AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: And that's what the 09:22AM 23 gentleman from Center Point is going to do. He is going 09:22AM 24 to go to Aqua Texas and say, guys, I've got some 09:22AM 25 paperwork you need to file out, here's some forms, these 24 09:22AM 1 came straight out of the appendix out of the subdivision 09:22AM 2 regulations and the model subdivision rules from the 09:23AM 3 State of Texas. Would you please fill these out and 09:23AM 4 give them to the county to prove that you can supply 09:23AM 5 water to me. And if that gentleman was to build his own 09:23AM 6 water system then he would go through the same thing 09:23AM 7 that Aqua Texas we suppose has already gone through to 09:23AM 8 make sure that he's got enough water to build a new 09:23AM 9 system. 09:23AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me make a point, 09:23AM 11 two points. No. 1, I'm all for making sure that we've 09:23AM 12 got enough water in the aquifer. I think that's one of 09:23AM 13 our biggest problems that we have in all of Kerr County, 09:23AM 14 and especially in East Kerr County, where ingenious 09:23AM 15 here, where the aquifer level just goes choo-choo-choo; 09:23AM 16 West Kerr County not so much. Right, Gene? Okay. 09:23AM 17 So it's a real issue there. And that's 09:23AM 18 what we are -- that's where some of this higher density 09:23AM 19 is. The other thought, I said, Okay, that's a concern. 09:23AM 20 If I looked at the other concern which we all know 09:24AM 21 about, you know, one of the biggest problems is the 09:24AM 22 price of housing in Kerr County. You know, it is 09:24AM 23 expensive. And housing for work force is a major, major 09:24AM 24 issue. So if we -- if we reduce from a half acre down 09:24AM 25 from -- if we could reduce from a half acre down to a 25 09:24AM 1 third with all the conditions you said, you have to 09:24AM 2 prove water availability an all that kind of stuff. To 09:24AM 3 me it's looking responsibly at the water availability, 09:24AM 4 but at the same time recognizing that the price of 09:24AM 5 development of property is -- it's really driven by the 09:24AM 6 lot size. 09:24AM 7 And with the fact that we have got so many 09:24AM 8 properties in that area that are on a quarter acre, I 09:24AM 9 think probably about quarter acre -- 09:24AM 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then there's some 09:24AM 11 drainage issue. There is -- 09:24AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand, but 09:24AM 13 that's what the developer has got to show that drainage 09:24AM 14 is okay. So I don't -- I am concerned that we are kind 09:25AM 15 of arbitrarily saying a half an acre as opposed to a 09:25AM 16 third of an acre. 09:25AM 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've always been 09:25AM 18 arbitrary. I mean, right now our current rules say in 09:25AM 19 the high density area we allow for two acres minimum lot 09:25AM 20 size. And we did that to encourage in these more 09:25AM 21 densely populated areas around primarily Center Point, 09:25AM 22 Comfort and Ingram to allow for a higher density rather 09:25AM 23 than go with five acres in the water system. 09:25AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right. All 09:25AM 25 I'm saying is I would just be -- I think we need to look 26 09:25AM 1 carefully at if we restrict it minimum average to a half 09:25AM 2 acre as apposed to a third of an acre. That's where I 09:25AM 3 am. 09:25AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the reality, 09:25AM 5 Commissioner, is that you're never going to get to that 09:25AM 6 anyway because if you put in a road, which you have 09:25AM 7 to -- 09:25AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, yeah. 09:25AM 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's going to cut 09:25AM 10 that calculation -- 09:25AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I know, but now 09:25AM 12 you're getting to specifics as opposed to general 09:25AM 13 subdivision requirements. If they can do it some way 09:25AM 14 and they can do it for a third of an acre I think, you 09:25AM 15 know, we ought to enable it, it's not inconsistent, 09:25AM 16 we're there. I recognize you've got to do water, you 09:26AM 17 got to do drainage, you've got to do roads, all those 09:26AM 18 kinds of thing, that's superimposed. He may not ever 09:26AM 19 get to a third of an acre but why arbitrarily, you know, 09:26AM 20 limit it to a half acre. 09:26AM 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'll have to 09:26AM 22 redo a lot of our rules if we go with that to tie to the 09:26AM 23 water provider and -- 09:26AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, yeah, okay. 09:26AM 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- have a lot of 27 09:26AM 1 studies done and figure out -- Gene and I have talked 09:26AM 2 about this a little bit. Right now the City of 09:26AM 3 Kerrville and the City of Comfort and the way they 09:26AM 4 calculate their water, they take in the area of the city 09:26AM 5 limits, down there, the area of the city boundaries, and 09:26AM 6 the water district being, here it's Gene, there it's 09:26AM 7 Kendall County and decide how much water they get, and 09:26AM 8 they cap it. And we could do the same thing here, but 09:26AM 9 Charlie and I looked at this particular one as an 09:26AM 10 example, Shaleco (phoetic) becomes real difficult 09:26AM 11 because our lot size gets really small in some of these 09:26AM 12 areas. I mean, if we're going to go that route, that's 09:26AM 13 a different route that we can go to and saying, okay, 09:27AM 14 Aqua Texas at Center Point, which is the system, you get 09:27AM 15 this much water and you do whatever you want with it. 09:27AM 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I'm not for that 09:27AM 17 for other reasons, for drainage and everything. 09:27AM 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they are the water 09:27AM 19 provider. 09:27AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's the 09:27AM 21 difference -- 09:27AM 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have to do that. 09:27AM 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- they have to 09:27AM 24 satisfy -- 09:27AM 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have drainage, but 28 09:27AM 1 on the water side you let Aqua Texas make that 09:27AM 2 determination, and TCEQ, and then we completely are out 09:27AM 3 of that. 09:27AM 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I agree with 09:27AM 5 water availability, with drainage and I agree with 09:27AM 6 roads, but I am not necessarily agreeing with an 09:27AM 7 arbitrary half acre versus a third, that's my point. 09:27AM 8 JUDGE KELLY: As the Chair I want to weigh 09:27AM 9 in. 09:27AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 09:27AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: I am mindful of the scope of 09:27AM 12 what's on our agenda and that is to discuss these rules. 09:27AM 13 I am, also, mindful that there are serious public policy 09:27AM 14 issues that we are all vitally interested in and this 09:27AM 15 certainly is one of them. But today is not really the 09:28AM 16 opportunity for us to get into the public policy debate. 09:28AM 17 Which brings up my kind of flippant comment before, 09:28AM 18 before we went into session, is that probably one of the 09:28AM 19 most frequently asked questions that commissioners and 09:28AM 20 county judges get have to do with subdivisions, water, 09:28AM 21 and county growth. It is on -- it's a burning issue on 09:28AM 22 everybody's minds. And one of the things about 09:28AM 23 subdivision rules is it is the gatekeeper for how we 09:28AM 24 grow. And so one of the suggestions that I have is that 09:28AM 25 we actually setup a series, I talked -- mentioned it to 29 09:28AM 1 Charlie, have several little voluntary workshops that 09:28AM 2 you don't have to go to if you don't want to learn, but 09:28AM 3 I need to know how these rules work a little bit better, 09:28AM 4 and your questions are very valid. I think they are 09:28AM 5 very important. But I think in workshop we can actually 09:28AM 6 go off on our little rabbit trails and explore some of 09:29AM 7 these issues without having -- what Charlie is trying to 09:29AM 8 do, I think, is show us his recommended changes to the 09:29AM 9 rules so that we, at least, know how we are going to 09:29AM 10 change our rules. And so we have a limited amount -- 09:29AM 11 these are the new rules, two-sided copies, okay, that's 09:29AM 12 how thick they are. And so we've got -- it's going to 09:29AM 13 take us some time to get through them. 09:29AM 14 So what I would like to do is try and get 09:29AM 15 us back on track and talk about his proposed changes to 09:29AM 16 these rules. And I am going to propose that we have a 09:29AM 17 series of workshops for us to learn subdivision rules 09:29AM 18 101 for county judge and commissioners, and invite the 09:29AM 19 public. 09:29AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And we do have a 09:29AM 21 couple of public hearings before this is adopted. 09:29AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 09:29AM 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, right. Since 09:29AM 24 you put something on the table, that's my comment. 09:29AM 25 Okay. 30 09:29AM 1 JUDGE KELLY: All valid. 09:29AM 2 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 09:29AM 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So has this boiled 09:29AM 4 down to trying to avoid a domino effect, the path of 09:30AM 5 least resistance, this half acre lot thing? 09:30AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: I don't understand. 09:30AM 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So if we do one thing 09:30AM 8 there's going to be -- let's just -- I'm just going to 09:30AM 9 make this up. On (A) if you do it there's going to be 09:30AM 10 seven problems. On (B) if you do it there's going to be 09:30AM 11 five problem. On (C) if you do it there's going to be 09:30AM 12 three problems. Is that the process of elimination for 09:30AM 13 the half acre lot? 09:30AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: I think you're on the right 09:30AM 15 track. And the reason I brought it forward was the same 09:30AM 16 concern that Commissioner Moser had, was that up to this 09:30AM 17 point it's been somewhat, you know, subjective, the half 09:30AM 18 acre. And so before we move forward and adopt this I 09:30AM 19 just want to bring that to y'all's attention and if you 09:30AM 20 want to have a special workshop just on water 09:30AM 21 availability or how we get to the bottom of this; I'm 09:30AM 22 not real sure what the answer is on that, but you do 09:30AM 23 have language in your subdivision regulations right now, 09:30AM 24 and will still, that gives you the ability to look at 09:31AM 25 these things on a case-by-case basis anyway. But before 31 09:31AM 1 we open the gates and release those horses do we want to 09:31AM 2 leave it at half acre and I am hearing, no, we want to 09:31AM 3 look at it some more. So we can come -- I think, we've 09:31AM 4 got time to flush that out. 09:31AM 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you don't want 09:31AM 6 to leave one arbitrary standard for another. 09:31AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: And we could always leave 09:31AM 8 the subdivision regulations, the density is still 09:31AM 9 divided by two and we still have the language in there 09:31AM 10 that says case-by-case. And we will just deal with them 09:31AM 11 as they come, but we want to adopt something that's 09:31AM 12 going to give the development community where they're 09:31AM 13 not scared. They need to know what's going on so they 09:31AM 14 can -- 09:31AM 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, they do. 09:31AM 16 JUDGE KELLY: I think it's very important 09:31AM 17 that the rules be uniform and they be as objective as 09:31AM 18 possible. So that people know if they color between 09:31AM 19 those lines it's going to get approved. 09:31AM 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's right. 09:31AM 21 JUDGE KELLY: And we don't have a whole lot 09:31AM 22 of subjective determinations. 09:31AM 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. We never -- when 09:31AM 24 we did this original '98 rewrite or the reform of this, 09:31AM 25 we didn't have a sewer system in the county so we 32 09:32AM 1 didn't -- this is the first time this discussion is 09:32AM 2 really coming up, because now we have to do it. 09:32AM 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 09:32AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before we had -- 09:32AM 5 JUDGE KELLY: It was all governed by 09:32AM 6 septic -- 09:32AM 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So we had some 09:32AM 8 rules in there but we didn't have it so we didn't make 09:32AM 9 any exceptions. 09:32AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, right, I agree. 09:32AM 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, now this is a 09:32AM 12 really -- a very important point. 09:32AM 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yep, yep. 09:32AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: Page 32, this is an 09:32AM 15 important point. 09:32AM 16 JUDGE KELLY: Thanks, Charlie. 09:32AM 17 MR. HASTINGS: You bet. Waist water 09:32AM 18 disposal system. I have been working with the 09:32AM 19 environmental health department and getting their 09:32AM 20 comments. And they have got some recommendations on 09:32AM 21 that, but my understanding is if it basically stays the 09:32AM 22 same it's really just about reformatting that. 09:32AM 23 MS. BADDERS: Yes, and then adding some 09:32AM 24 verbiage to clarify what each one is, for example, like 09:32AM 25 side -- overall side drawing, what that means. 33 09:33AM 1 MR. HASTINGS: So that it's clear to the 09:33AM 2 developer or surveyor -- 09:33AM 3 MS. BADDERS: Yes. 09:33AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: -- or his engineer. 09:33AM 5 MS. BADDERS: Correct. 09:33AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: -- what is being requested. 09:33AM 7 And, again, this is the requirement that when a plat is 09:33AM 8 being done that there are documents that need to be 09:33AM 9 submitted to kind of prove up that -- that the lot 09:33AM 10 that's being proposed is going to be suitable for 09:33AM 11 septic; is that right, did I summarize it okay? 09:33AM 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the 09:33AM 13 things that we can do without a whole lot of room and 09:33AM 14 get with Ashli. Rather than just refer to 285, can't we 09:33AM 15 put the 285 language in our rules? 09:33AM 16 MS. BADDERS: That's what -- 09:33AM 17 MR. HASTINGS: I think that's what she 09:33AM 18 recommended. To make if very clear, right now we have a 09:33AM 19 paragraph that says you need to turn in X, Y and Z. She 09:33AM 20 would like it to be expanded so that they have some meat 09:33AM 21 on it for each one of those items that's being turned 09:33AM 22 in. Okay. 09:33AM 23 So I am going to work with her to get that 09:34AM 24 into a document that everyone can see what it is and it 09:34AM 25 will all be in red what's changing. 34 09:34AM 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other -- 09:34AM 2 maybe we wait and see that. My other general comment is 09:34AM 3 I think that there is -- Heather and I have disagreed on 09:34AM 4 this over the years, because as an example; if you have 09:34AM 5 an existing subdivision with two lots on it and there's 09:34AM 6 no development on it, there's a lot line change, I don't 09:34AM 7 know why it needs to go back to the environmental level. 09:34AM 8 I mean, it's already approved they can already build 09:34AM 9 lots on it, but 285 says, I know, that they have to 09:34AM 10 review plats. 09:34AM 11 To me, I think we can have the rules to not 09:34AM 12 change that necessarily but we are going to deem that 09:34AM 13 that's the situation, but they don't need to do 09:34AM 14 anything -- 09:34AM 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Under what 09:34AM 16 circumstances, again? 09:34AM 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no lots -- 09:34AM 18 there's two lots, no structures, nothing there. It's 09:34AM 19 already approved unless the lot line is being changed. 09:34AM 20 MS. BADDERS: Well, when that case happens 09:35AM 21 we just -- we don't request for the information that's 09:35AM 22 required under Chapter 285, we just have it for our 09:35AM 23 records and we just sign off on it. 09:35AM 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it needs to be in 09:35AM 25 the rules. I want all this stuff in the rules to be 35 09:35AM 1 clear. 09:35AM 2 MS. BADDERS: We don't really require -- 09:35AM 3 correct, yes. 09:35AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to say we don't 09:35AM 5 require the rule. That's what I'm saying is I want the 09:35AM 6 rules to be very clear as to what we're doing -- 09:35AM 7 (Many people talking at once) 09:35AM 8 JUDGE KELLY: I see some nodding heads back 09:35AM 9 there in that corner. 09:35AM 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nodding heads. 09:35AM 11 MS. BADDERS: What the size of the lot is 09:35AM 12 changing to, as well. So if it's like five acres and 09:35AM 13 they are carving it out to, you know, one half acre or 09:35AM 14 whatever that size may be then we would require a report 09:35AM 15 for that new lot. 09:35AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See that's what I'm 09:35AM 17 getting to, the thing is to me -- there is not a lot, if 09:35AM 18 you go up to, you know our minimum lot size, you can put 09:35AM 19 a septic system on it, period. It may be an expensive 09:35AM 20 one and you may have to do all kinds of things but you 09:35AM 21 can put it on there on the minimum lot size that we 09:35AM 22 have -- 09:35AM 23 MS. BADDERS: I think it -- 09:35AM 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Whatever that is. 09:35AM 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever that turns out 36 09:36AM 1 to be, well, if you have separate sewer system. 09:36AM 2 I am thinking more on the larger size. I 09:36AM 3 mean, the half acre, yes, I agree, but if you have up to 09:36AM 4 five acres or four acres then you can put a system in 09:36AM 5 there. I just think that we are -- it's costing the 09:36AM 6 developer -- the property owners and the developer money 09:36AM 7 unnecessarily because they have to do the exact same 09:36AM 8 work when they put the system in. 09:36AM 9 So, I think we just need to look and see if 09:36AM 10 there's anyway that we can look at and make the cost 09:36AM 11 more equitable. 09:36AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I agree. 09:36AM 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think on all of 09:36AM 14 this. I mean, the goals here are to make it -- to 09:36AM 15 clarify anything that's not clear. To make it as easy 09:36AM 16 as possible for the taxpayer as long as it's safe and 09:36AM 17 healthy. And to protect the safety and the health of 09:36AM 18 everybody in every subdivision. 09:36AM 19 I don't see this as -- there's no other 09:36AM 20 purpose for it beyond that, is there? 09:36AM 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's it. I think 09:36AM 22 that's it. 09:36AM 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So bearing that in 09:36AM 24 mind, keeping it as simple as possible and make sure 09:37AM 25 everybody is safe. That's all our job is. 37 09:37AM 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will make just a 09:37AM 2 general comment that I hear, compared to the other 09:37AM 3 person that does a lot of fighting in the county, across 09:37AM 4 the street -- 09:37AM 5 (Laughter) 09:37AM 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that our staff in 09:37AM 7 total works with developers as to how to do things and 09:37AM 8 not throw up roadblocks and how not to it. And I think 09:37AM 9 we do a really good job on trying to help people do what 09:37AM 10 they want up front and accomplish it, and I want to keep 09:37AM 11 doing it that way. 09:37AM 12 JUDGE KELLY: Charlie, here's my 09:37AM 13 observation. All of these are very valid comments. 09:37AM 14 There are certain topics that are kind of push buttons. 09:37AM 15 We push buttons when we get to those topics. And we 09:37AM 16 really need to know -- I know you need to get a set of 09:37AM 17 revised rules in place. I understand what your task is 09:37AM 18 here. And it's like herding cats with us right now 09:37AM 19 because we're all over the place. But we need to have 09:37AM 20 workshops where we address these specific issues. And 09:38AM 21 we have public input, and we have -- we have 09:38AM 22 departmental input. We really need to go ahead and have 09:38AM 23 a thorough debate and discussion about these critical 09:38AM 24 issues, because once we put these rules in place, those 09:38AM 25 are the rules. And we all know you -- we batted our 38 09:38AM 1 heads against the wall because that's the rules. Well, 09:38AM 2 we need to have, I think, more thoughtful consideration 09:38AM 3 as we implement these rules. I think we are at a 09:38AM 4 critical point in the development of the county and the 09:38AM 5 history of the county that these rules are absolutely 09:38AM 6 critical to what happens to us for the next 50 years. 09:38AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And clear. 09:38AM 8 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 09:38AM 9 JUDGE KELLY: Because things are getting 09:38AM 10 ready to bust loose. We see what's happening to the 09:38AM 11 east of us, and they are coming. Trust me, they are 09:38AM 12 coming. 09:38AM 13 MR. HASTINGS: Very good. Well, that is a 09:38AM 14 workshop candidate right there, for sure. 09:38AM 15 Page 33, Section 5.04 A, we've got the 09:39AM 16 language in there about the minimum depths identified in 09:39AM 17 Title 43 of the Texas Administrative Code. We made that 09:39AM 18 change, very important. Our subdivision regulations as 09:39AM 19 they are written right now say everyone only has to be 09:39AM 20 so deep, but if you go and look at State law it says it 09:39AM 21 depends on what you are. 09:39AM 22 And so that launches into a conclusion of 09:39AM 23 conversations in a workshop we had earlier this year. I 09:39AM 24 was supposed to come back to you, it's about the fiber 09:39AM 25 optic installation. I handed out to each one of you, it 39 09:39AM 1 should be just one page and the title is Fiber Optic 09:39AM 2 Installation Survey. I did a survey through the 09:39AM 3 ListServ that TAC has. And this went out to any 09:39AM 4 subscriber of the ListServ that was either a public 09:39AM 5 works director, or county engineer, or a road 09:39AM 6 administrator, and these are the comments that I got 09:39AM 7 back. From Collin County it was their assistant public 09:40AM 8 works director, the question was: Do you allow micro 09:40AM 9 trenching? They said, No. And their concerns were, 09:40AM 10 they said, "We require a cover of 42 inches minimum for 09:40AM 11 fiber optic cable in Collin County. I have been with 09:40AM 12 several other entities in my career and all required 09:40AM 13 cover of more than the 16 inches you mentioned. My 09:40AM 14 opinion would be that 16 inches is considerably too 09:40AM 15 shallow." And so they are in compliance with their -- 09:40AM 16 they recognize TAC Title 43 and that's their bible. 09:40AM 17 Kerr County county engineer, I said, No, I 09:40AM 18 don't recommend micro trenching. My reasons, 16 inches 09:40AM 19 is too shallow, micro trenching back fields disrupts 09:40AM 20 subsurface drainage especially where springs exist. TAC 09:40AM 21 Title 43, longitudinal installation in pavement is 09:40AM 22 42 inches as required; 36 required with county 09:40AM 23 indemnification agreement transfers installation in 09:40AM 24 pavement crossings is 60 inches as required. And we are 09:41AM 25 right now in compliance with TAC Title 43 and will be 40 09:41AM 1 with these subdivision regulations with that slight 09:41AM 2 modification. 09:41AM 3 And then we, also, heard from Allison, Bass 09:41AM 4 & Magee, LLP. James Allison weighed in on this. He 09:41AM 5 said, "No, don't do micro trenching." And his reason, 09:41AM 6 he said, "I would not recommend that a county grant any 09:41AM 7 approval for installation that is less than the 42 09:41AM 8 inches required by the Texas Administrative Code. Such 09:41AM 9 approval may result in a loss of the county immunity 09:41AM 10 from damage claims for routine maintenance. So he, 09:41AM 11 also, recommends that we stick with TAC Title 43. 09:41AM 12 Heather, you brought this up to me and I 09:41AM 13 think you went to a conference and came back and said, 09:41AM 14 Hey, don't forget to put this on the agenda. I don't 09:41AM 15 know if you want to weigh in here or not? 09:41AM 16 MS. STEBBINS: I agree, we should not go 09:41AM 17 any lower than State law. 09:41AM 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, did -- 09:41AM 19 MS. STEBBINS: That's the consensus of some 09:41AM 20 other county attorneys statewide. 09:41AM 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Did you talk to Kimble 09:41AM 22 and Kendall? Kendall and Kimble. 09:42AM 23 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. And I went out and I 09:42AM 24 looked at the installation in Kendall County, fiber 09:42AM 25 optic that was recently installed through micro 41 09:42AM 1 trenching and it -- there's a line in the road, you can 09:42AM 2 follow it and go that's where they did it. And they put 09:42AM 3 back basically a flowable fill which is a low 09:42AM 4 cement/sand ratio. 09:42AM 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What is their depth 09:42AM 6 requirement? 09:42AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: It was this, they put it in 09:42AM 8 at 16 inches. They allowed them to do as they were 09:42AM 9 requesting and the issue at the top is that the sealant 09:42AM 10 that they put on there, it peels and it comes up. From 09:42AM 11 talking with some folks in Fredericksburg they were the 09:42AM 12 ones that alerted us to it. They said that the problem 09:42AM 13 is, is that you can't get a good seal on the top. If we 09:42AM 14 were going to allow it, my recommendation would be, we 09:42AM 15 come back and it would be a road that we are going to 09:42AM 16 chip seal anyway, but you get into these issues that are 09:42AM 17 being brought up about, you know, you're really opening 09:43AM 18 up a Pandora's box legality -- for legality issues it's 09:43AM 19 highly not recommended. 09:43AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, but -- 09:43AM 21 MR. HASTINGS: But those were the practical 09:43AM 22 reasons it -- 09:43AM 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So Kendall does allow 09:43AM 24 it? 09:43AM 25 MR. HASTINGS: Kendall has allowed it. I 42 09:43AM 1 don't know that they're going to continue to, but they 09:43AM 2 have allowed it. Yes, sir. 09:43AM 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. And Kimble 09:43AM 4 County what's -- 09:43AM 5 MR. HASTINGS: Didn't go and visit Kimble 09:43AM 6 County. 09:43AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So where did you go? 09:43AM 8 MR. HASTINGS: I think we had, um, at one 09:43AM 9 time I -- all the counties that they said that they had 09:43AM 10 installed these, I looked them up on Google Earth and 09:43AM 11 found the actual streets where these were installed and 09:43AM 12 they were in neighborhoods -- 09:43AM 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I'm just curious 09:43AM 14 why you chose Collin County but not -- 09:43AM 15 MR. HASTINGS: I didn't choose Collin 09:43AM 16 County. 09:43AM 17 JUDGE KELLY: They responded. 09:43AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: They responded. I sent 09:43AM 19 out -- 09:43AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Others didn't respond. 09:43AM 21 MR. HASTINGS: -- a mass e-mail and these 09:43AM 22 are the only responses I got back. 09:43AM 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Gotcha. Okay. I 09:43AM 24 understand. 09:43AM 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, we do allow it on 43 09:43AM 1 private roads, correct? 09:43AM 2 MR. HASTINGS: We don't have a say. So 09:43AM 3 Falling Water has this. 09:43AM 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right. Yeah, we 09:43AM 5 don't have a say in it. 09:43AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 09:43AM 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. We make road 09:44AM 8 standards. I guess, I bring it up a little bit is 09:44AM 9 because we require roads to be built at certain 09:44AM 10 standards and they go in and trench it and, you know, 09:44AM 11 they are not to our standard anymore. 09:44AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I see what you're 09:44AM 13 saying. 09:44AM 14 JUDGE KELLY: But it's their road. 09:44AM 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's their roads, I 09:44AM 16 mean, I don't have a problem with them -- 09:44AM 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Many of their roads 09:44AM 18 are their roads. 09:44AM 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 09:44AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This would be a 09:44AM 21 standard that we are not imposing on private roads? 09:44AM 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You are not doing 09:44AM 23 retroactively either so... 09:44AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, no, but if 09:44AM 25 somebody wants to do it tomorrow, go after roads, on a 44 09:44AM 1 private road -- 09:44AM 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Go after -- 09:44AM 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- they can. 09:44AM 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can do what they 09:44AM 5 want -- 09:44AM 6 (Several Commissioners talking at once) 09:44AM 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, my question is: 09:44AM 8 How do we -- how do we track that? 09:44AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: If they are going on private 09:44AM 10 roads? 09:44AM 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 09:44AM 12 MR. HASTINGS: We don't. 09:44AM 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We don't. 09:44AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: This is not our road. 09:44AM 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's not our road, but 09:44AM 16 there might be sometime where the county has to be 09:44AM 17 there, so... 09:44AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: In the future, that's right. 09:44AM 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So, now how do we -- 09:44AM 20 MR. HASTINGS: We don't. 09:44AM 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We have no -- 09:44AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: Well, if we find out about 09:44AM 23 it and that's one of the things -- so, now, you've 09:44AM 24 got -- let's say Falling Water one day they say, Yeah, 09:45AM 25 we really want y'all to take over these roads out here. 45 09:45AM 1 And we say, Does it meet our standard? Hey, we know, we 09:45AM 2 happen to know just because we remember, y'all got 09:45AM 3 fiber-o installed in here and it's not the proper depth. 09:45AM 4 Go in there and lower it to the proper depth and then we 09:45AM 5 will talk about accepting your road. So -- 09:45AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, case in point, I 09:45AM 7 was talking about where the subdivision I live in, we 09:45AM 8 have made it the county standards, county standards 09:45AM 9 change, so the county wouldn't accept it. So this would 09:45AM 10 be the same type of thing? 09:45AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. 09:45AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You put it into a 09:45AM 13 standard, you put in fiber optics to the incorrect depth 09:45AM 14 and you won't accept it in the future? 09:45AM 15 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 09:45AM 16 MR. HASTINGS: It would be the same thing. 09:45AM 17 That would be a draw back. 09:45AM 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And it has to be in 09:45AM 19 there for -- it's not in the rules that I have read 09:45AM 20 about a county road being -- I mean, a road being taken 09:45AM 21 over by the county, nothing about anything buried under 09:45AM 22 that road that I saw. 09:45AM 23 JUDGE KELLY: We don't have to accept it 09:45AM 24 when they offer it to us. 09:45AM 25 MR. HASTINGS: Right. 46 09:45AM 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that, but 09:45AM 2 what I'm saying is if it's up to spec otherwise 09:45AM 3 shouldn't that be included in the language in there 09:45AM 4 what's buried under that? 09:46AM 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we -- on that 09:46AM 6 point, Commissioner, we do not right now have a written 09:46AM 7 policy and I think we need to. Our policy has unwritten 09:46AM 8 been, long before I was commissioner, that if a road is 09:46AM 9 brought to county standards we will accept it. That's 09:46AM 10 not in writing anywhere, and I think that we should do 09:46AM 11 it in writing. 09:46AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, I think so, 09:46AM 13 too. 09:46AM 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's sort of -- it's 09:46AM 15 in there implied in what roads we will take over. 09:46AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and I think you 09:46AM 17 refer back to our subdivision where it has to be made in 09:46AM 18 compliance with all of our road standards in here and 09:46AM 19 that would solve that issue. 09:46AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Precisely. 09:46AM 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we should 09:46AM 22 have a policy. 09:46AM 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But it is included 09:46AM 24 and/or implied in the impassable roads if you read that. 09:46AM 25 JUDGE KELLY: Put that on your list of 47 09:46AM 1 things to bring back to us. 09:46AM 2 It's a slow process, but we've got to do 09:46AM 3 it. 09:46AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. Page 33 at the 09:46AM 5 bottom. Very important under drainage. And I am 09:46AM 6 putting the word "residential" in there. When these 09:46AM 7 drainage regulations were written and when they had an 09:47AM 8 exemption for doing detention, that the exemption was 09:47AM 9 intended really for residential lots. Okay. So for 09:47AM 10 example, I will read it to you: Residential 09:47AM 11 subdivisions with a minimum lot size of 20 acres or 09:47AM 12 total number of lots of less than five shall be exempt 09:47AM 13 from Section 5.06C, that's detention and 5.06D, that's 09:47AM 14 doing calculations for the detention. So, I made sure 09:47AM 15 to clarify that it's residential. You do not want to 09:47AM 16 have this exemption for commercial lots. They do 09:47AM 17 commercial subdivision and put a Home Depot in, they 09:47AM 18 cover everything up with concrete and they can -- right 09:47AM 19 now they can cite the rules and say, I don't have to 09:47AM 20 even do a single drainage calculation for you. It will 09:47AM 21 be a nightmare. So I put the word "residential" in 09:47AM 22 there. I just want to bring that to your attention. 09:47AM 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is probably 09:47AM 24 another one that we probably ought to add for our 09:48AM 25 workshop list is do our logic. For the logic, we are 48 09:48AM 1 different than most other counties here. Going with why 09:48AM 2 right now budgeted at one of those topics. 09:48AM 3 MR. HASTINGS: Page 36. I have got a 09:48AM 4 summary table on 36 and Page 37, I have added those, 09:48AM 5 these are brand new tables. It's not new data. It's 09:48AM 6 taking the written paragraphs, the written existing, 09:48AM 7 written drainage criteria and putting it in a table for 09:48AM 8 reference. It makes it easy to review. It makes it 09:48AM 9 easy for the developers, engineers to quickly look at 09:48AM 10 this and understand what's being required. 09:48AM 11 Okay, Page 39. The planning procedures 09:48AM 12 under 6.02 begin with the clerk on that. And, Jackie, I 09:48AM 13 don't know if you want to stand up and briefly just tell 09:48AM 14 us, you have got all kinds of great comments that will 09:48AM 15 get us back in line with court orders that have been 09:49AM 16 passed where the language didn't get -- didn't get 09:49AM 17 changed throughout the whole document. And she's trying 09:49AM 18 to get that all brought back together so that it's very 09:49AM 19 clear what's being required of the developers when it 09:49AM 20 comes to fees that are paid to the county clerk. 09:49AM 21 Go ahead Jackie. 09:49AM 22 MS. DOWDY: So I did provide a packet, 09:49AM 23 again, that's Page 39, 6.02. 09:49AM 24 MR. HASTINGS: And I gave copies of the 09:49AM 25 same information so you actually probably have multiple 49 09:49AM 1 copies of what she's going to walk you through. Just 09:49AM 2 real briefly, Jackie, it doesn't -- 09:49AM 3 MS. DOWDY: Just on my summary sheet from 09:49AM 4 the first page, my summary letter, it would be No. 2, 09:49AM 5 Section 6.02, Preliminary Plat and Data, Page 39. 09:49AM 6 Clarify language and add a statement at the end 09:49AM 7 regarding publication fees, because the Court some time 09:49AM 8 ago passed court orders, like, 33253 or it had a lot of 09:50AM 9 3s in it. 09:50AM 10 MR. HASTINGS: It was 2013. 09:50AM 11 MS. DOWDY: 2013, to add in the costs of 09:50AM 12 publication fees and that's actually State statute to 09:50AM 13 include the publication fee with the application fee. 09:50AM 14 But for revisions of plats you have to publish three 09:50AM 15 times so really it would just be a bill of cost 09:50AM 16 statement to be billed later. 09:50AM 17 MR. HASTINGS: So what we are saying is in 09:50AM 18 2013 the Court adopted a court order that made it in 09:50AM 19 compliance with State regulations that the developer 09:50AM 20 should be paying for those publications? 09:50AM 21 MS. DOWDY: Yes. 09:50AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: Have we been doing that? 09:50AM 23 MS. DOWDY: No. 09:50AM 24 MR. HASTINGS: So that's something 09:50AM 25 different that will be an additional cost. Do we know 50 09:50AM 1 what those will cost approximately. 09:50AM 2 MS. DOWDY: The cheapest we can find is 09:50AM 3 $35, roughly $35, it's by the word, by the -- 09:50AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: And so if you do three of 09:50AM 5 those the developer is looking at maybe $105 or 09:50AM 6 something like that? 09:50AM 7 MS. DOWDY: Right, right. Yep, right. 09:51AM 8 MR. HASTINGS: I wanted to make sure it 09:51AM 9 wasn't going to be like a $1,000. 09:51AM 10 MS. DOWDY: Oh, no. 09:51AM 11 MR. HASTINGS: No, that's reasonable. 09:51AM 12 MS. DOWDY: No, it's only on revisions of 09:51AM 13 plats. And then -- 09:51AM 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's still a 09:51AM 15 pretty high fee because a lot of our business plats are 09:51AM 16 just changing a lot line, and that's -- that ain't $135 09:51AM 17 for that now, it is what it is, but -- 09:51AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: Do we have to accept this by 09:51AM 19 State law or can we continue to pay for it out of our 09:51AM 20 own funds? 09:51AM 21 MS. DOWDY: The Court may charge or add in 09:51AM 22 the publication cost from what I remember that was the 09:51AM 23 way that it was stated. So and the Court did adopt that 09:51AM 24 so right now we are under that to collect that back, 09:51AM 25 but... 51 09:51AM 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we need 09:51AM 2 to look at it. I mean, they have to provide notes, so 09:51AM 3 you know, and to me the developer or person changing it 09:51AM 4 should pay it. Why should the rest of the taxpayers pay 09:51AM 5 it? 09:51AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's right. 09:51AM 7 MS. DOWDY: So that's up to y'all. I mean, 09:51AM 8 I am just here to be an intermediary to collect. If you 09:51AM 9 guys want to collect I can collect. I can do that, 09:51AM 10 that's all. 09:52AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. But this is 09:52AM 12 just a proposed change? 09:52AM 13 MS. DOWDY: Correct. Just to update -- 09:52AM 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So let's look -- 09:52AM 15 MS. DOWDY: -- and to reflect the way the 09:52AM 16 Court has it regulated. 09:52AM 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 09:52AM 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the current way 09:52AM 19 we -- the current rule? 09:52AM 20 MS. DOWDY: Correct. 09:52AM 21 MR. HASTINGS: If we choose not to adopt 09:52AM 22 it, Commissioner Moser, we will need to go back and 09:52AM 23 resend that court order of 2013. We're supposed to be 09:52AM 24 doing it. 09:52AM 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, right. Okay. 52 09:52AM 1 MS. DOWDY: So that's that section. 09:52AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What you're doing 09:52AM 3 today is just highlighting the changes that you made? 09:52AM 4 MS. DOWDY: And I have done that in my 09:52AM 5 letter, as well. 09:52AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, we got that. 09:52AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Jackie. 09:52AM 8 MS. DOWDY: Sure thing. 09:52AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. On Page 42, 09:52AM 10 Commissioner Belew, you had questioned this on Page 42 09:52AM 11 so I scratched through -- 09:52AM 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 09:52AM 13 MR. HASTINGS: -- and it was the Engineer 09:52AM 14 Review. I went back and looked at this, that language 09:52AM 15 was not new language that I came up with. This was 09:53AM 16 repeating language that's on a couple of pages before. 09:53AM 17 Okay. So we actually have in our language right now we 09:53AM 18 require engineering review all subdivisions that require 09:53AM 19 drainage plans on our roadway plan and profile drawings 09:53AM 20 are subject to an engineering review fee to pay the 09:53AM 21 actual cost. And the reason that language was in there 09:53AM 22 was that before I came on board as the county engineer 09:53AM 23 for multiple years you were hiring a third-party 09:53AM 24 engineer to review plans. So if we leave that language 09:53AM 25 in there you have the ability to collect those fees. 53 09:53AM 1 There has not been -- since I have been here there's not 09:53AM 2 been a single bill giving to a developer for me to 09:53AM 3 review those plans, and that's why I got hired was to do 09:53AM 4 that job. But if I'm not here and you have to hire a 09:53AM 5 third party then that's where it would come into play. 09:53AM 6 So we might just leave the language in there, but make 09:53AM 7 sure and note that that in the instance where the county 09:53AM 8 engineer can't review or there's a conflict of interest 09:54AM 9 and we have to hire a third party the developer may have 09:54AM 10 to pay these fees. And that's what I recommend that we 09:54AM 11 do. 09:54AM 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, I agree to that. 09:54AM 13 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. Let's go through 09:54AM 14 these. Okay. On Page 49, 6.07C, there's language that 09:54AM 15 I copied and pasted from Section 232 and 212, local 09:54AM 16 government code, that is alternate procedures for plat 09:54AM 17 revisions. And we've had some discussions on this and 09:54AM 18 the county attorney has had a chance to review this and 09:54AM 19 has come up with what we need to follow. 09:54AM 20 So if you could walk us through that. 09:54AM 21 MS. STEBBINS: The 232-0095 alternative 09:54AM 22 procedures for plat revision was a proposed change to 09:55AM 23 our rules; however, I don't -- it doesn't apply to Kerr 09:55AM 24 County. This section applies only to real property 09:55AM 25 located outside municipalities with a population of 54 09:55AM 1 1.5 million or more. So I don't think that that rule 09:55AM 2 was written and intended to apply to Kerr County. I 09:55AM 3 think it was intended to apply to bigger counties and 09:55AM 4 cities. 09:55AM 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 09:55AM 6 MS. STEBBINS: So I don't think it should 09:55AM 7 be included in our regulations. 09:55AM 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All that red comes out? 09:55AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: That would be from Page 49 09:55AM 10 through Page 52. 09:55AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And I don't like it 09:55AM 12 suggested to the public that we ever want to be that 09:55AM 13 big. 09:55AM 14 (Laughter) 09:55AM 15 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. On Pages 54 and 55 09:56AM 16 there is items B through H, that is existing language in 09:56AM 17 our subdivision regulations that was in the wrong 09:56AM 18 location in the document so I moved it over here. And I 09:56AM 19 expanded on traffic signs to include things that were 09:56AM 20 common sense that needed where the develop -- they just 09:56AM 21 needed more direction, this does it for them. 09:56AM 22 And let's see what else do we have. On 09:56AM 23 Page 56 I made some changes to the definition of 09:56AM 24 high-plasticity soils. And the reason I did that was to 09:56AM 25 clarify what we are really looking for and to avoid 55 09:56AM 1 costly treatment of soil when it's not warranted. 09:56AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good, good. 09:56AM 3 MR. HASTINGS: We don't want a developer 09:56AM 4 putting lime in something just because we had a poor 09:56AM 5 definition and he thinks he needs to put lime. 09:56AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. 09:57AM 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So what determines 09:57AM 8 that, Charlie? 09:57AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: Moisture sensitive material. 09:57AM 10 It's about how much clay is in there and then how 09:57AM 11 granular your material is. 09:57AM 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Somebody has to test 09:57AM 13 it? 09:57AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: They pay to have it tested. 09:57AM 15 They have a lab come out. The problem is if you look at 09:57AM 16 the results and you don't look at this specific 09:57AM 17 definition they will say, Oh, you've got clay in this 09:57AM 18 and you've got to go spend a lot of money -- 09:57AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Lots of money. 09:57AM 20 MR. HASTINGS: -- to treat it. When, in 09:57AM 21 general, our soil around here has so much gravel and 09:57AM 22 granular material that that clay can slip into those 09:57AM 23 pockets and not cause the road to heave like up in 09:57AM 24 Dallas. So we've just got better soils for that. It's 09:57AM 25 rare that we have -- when we do have pockets of clay 56 09:57AM 1 it's maybe for 100 foot and they typically scrape it 09:57AM 2 out, haul it off. They don't treat it they just remove 09:57AM 3 and replace. 09:57AM 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is so they will 09:57AM 5 understand. 09:57AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. If we don't -- 09:57AM 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That we have a 09:57AM 8 different standard than -- 09:57AM 9 MR. HASTINGS: It's to keep them from -- 09:58AM 10 otherwise, if you don't change this definition you're 09:58AM 11 going to have developers that are going be upset that 09:58AM 12 they are have having to go treat soil that doesn't 09:58AM 13 really need to be treated. 09:58AM 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Exactly, okay. 09:58AM 15 MR. HASTINGS: Page 60. I was asked to put 09:58AM 16 in the Kerr County Cattle Guard Policy. I put that in 09:58AM 17 there. Then right below it on 7.06.14 cul-de-sacs. 09:58AM 18 That additional language, that's for direction from the 09:58AM 19 court recently about other designs besides cul-de-sacs 09:58AM 20 may be submitted, considered by the county engineer on a 09:58AM 21 case-by-case basis. I put that language in there to 09:58AM 22 give us the ability to look at other than cul-de-sacs. 09:58AM 23 Which is consistent with what we have been doing in 09:58AM 24 certain situations. 09:58AM 25 Let's see here, that's it. We have got 57 09:59AM 1 some items, you have an appendix in there. I'm not 09:59AM 2 going to walk through that because it was really just 09:59AM 3 cleaning language up. Jackie has made some pretty good 09:59AM 4 modifications and edits to the portion that affects the 09:59AM 5 county clerk, I think that's Appendix F that's in there. 09:59AM 6 And I think we've got those not in your hands, but it 09:59AM 7 has a separate packet that she gave to you what she's 09:59AM 8 recommending the changes that go to Appendix F. And so 09:59AM 9 we have gone through the whole document. We have talked 09:59AM 10 about the changes that the clerk has suggested. We were 09:59AM 11 talking about environmental health. 09:59AM 12 And do you have any questions or do you 09:59AM 13 want to open the floor for comments to come from the 09:59AM 14 floor? 09:59AM 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, but I've got a 10:00AM 16 compliment to you. This -- how long has this been going 10:00AM 17 on for a year or something? 10:00AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: Five. 10:00AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But Charlie has worked 10:00AM 20 on this amazing. It's an amazing piece of work so thank 10:00AM 21 you Charlie. 10:00AM 22 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. 10:00AM 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we go back with 10:00AM 24 the Judge we probably ought to -- the areas that I think 10:00AM 25 we need to have a pretty lengthy discussion and maybe 58 10:00AM 1 explanations is water availability; OSSF Environmental 10:00AM 2 Health; model subdivision rules, that we really didn't 10:00AM 3 talk about today; and drainage. Those are the areas 10:00AM 4 that are a little bit -- and then probably a general 10:00AM 5 going through some of the, you know, like, variance, 10:00AM 6 that wouldn't take long. Our variance policy and 10:00AM 7 waivers and some of that stuff. I don't think 10:00AM 8 there's -- probably two workshops, Judge, we probably 10:00AM 9 could get through that. 10:00AM 10 JUDGE KELLY: I am fine with that. I know 10:00AM 11 we just need to have a little cram course so that we can 10:00AM 12 hedge the question about Home Depot and Lowes. You 10:01AM 13 can't get out of those places without somebody asking 10:01AM 14 you a question. 10:01AM 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Really give everybody 10:01AM 16 a chance to really look in depth at what Charlie is 10:01AM 17 proposing here and what Jackie has. 10:01AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: What I'd like to do moving 10:01AM 19 forward from today is over the next week and half to 10:01AM 20 maybe up to two weeks is to get these revisions in that 10:01AM 21 have come from Jackie, and from the environmental 10:01AM 22 health, incorporate them into this document, and from -- 10:01AM 23 also from what we have heard from the county attorney, 10:01AM 24 remove the sections that need to be removed. And then 10:01AM 25 publish, again, to the website. So on the county 59 10:01AM 1 engineer website I will put a new subdivision kind of 10:01AM 2 final version. 10:01AM 3 We do have a work -- a public hearing 10:01AM 4 scheduled for, I believe, August the 19th which I think 10:01AM 5 is what, two weeks from today. So I could have that -- 10:01AM 6 we may need to ramp that up. I'll try to get it done 10:02AM 7 this week what we can and get it published as soon as 10:02AM 8 possible. I want people to have a chance to look at it 10:02AM 9 before that public hearing. 10:02AM 10 But my understanding is we will have 10:02AM 11 probably after that public hearing we will probably have 10:02AM 12 two workshops and then have a final public hearing? 10:02AM 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10:02AM 14 MR. HASTINGS: Does that sound -- that 10:02AM 15 sounds like we're getting -- 10:02AM 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, that's a good 10:02AM 17 plan. 10:02AM 18 MR. HASTINGS: -- down to the final 10:02AM 19 stretch. Six to eight weeks from now maybe we'll have 10:02AM 20 what we need. 10:02AM 21 JUDGE KELLY: A couple of more public 10:02AM 22 hearings, couple of more workshops, sounds good to me. 10:02AM 23 Okay. 10:02AM 24 MR. HASTINGS: Okay, very good. 10:02AM 25 JUDGE KELLY: I want to thank UGRA for 60 10:02AM 1 being here. And also for our Headwaters department -- 10:02AM 2 Headwaters, sorry. And also having Eric and Don and Lee 10:02AM 3 here with us. 10:02AM 4 Do y'all have any input from what we've 10:02AM 5 heard so far? 10:02AM 6 MR. DON VOELKEL: Surprisingly. I am Don 10:02AM 7 Voelkel of Kerrville, Texas. I just have two comments. 10:02AM 8 One about what Heather just said. We were talking about 10:03AM 9 the cost of notification and publication and all. The 10:03AM 10 State law that she was talking about says that counties 10:03AM 11 can adopt parts of 212 that allow tweaking a lot line, 10:03AM 12 combining lots without publication, notification, public 10:03AM 13 hearing. It simplifies it, but only to counties outside 10:03AM 14 corporate limits, which we are, and outside the ETJ of 10:03AM 15 million-and-half, which we are. I personally don't see 10:03AM 16 why we can't do that, and I am not trying to be an 10:03AM 17 attorney I am just -- I look -- I'm an engineer, I look 10:03AM 18 at questions and I look at answers and that to me, we 10:03AM 19 are both of those. And if we could adopt those or some 10:03AM 20 how put language in our -- in our subdivision 10:03AM 21 regulations that allow doing those without publication 10:04AM 22 and notification which that part of the State law allows 10:04AM 23 it would simply and make it cheaper and less work for 10:04AM 24 the clerk's office to do things like tweaking a lot 10:04AM 25 line. I am not talking about 100 lot development, I am 61 10:04AM 1 not talking about that at all. I am talking about just 10:04AM 2 simple tweaking a lot line -- 10:04AM 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: A private transaction. 10:04AM 4 MR. DON VOELKEL: -- a lot line, combining 10:04AM 5 lots that, that section of the State law, 232, allows 10:04AM 6 the counties to adopt certain sections of the 212 of the 10:04AM 7 city government that allows -- makes these things more 10:04AM 8 simple, and cheaper, and less work for the clerk. 10:04AM 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don, I think we may be 10:04AM 10 able to get there, but every attorney, the way we went 10:04AM 11 through at a workshop not too long ago, Mr. Allison, the 10:04AM 12 county attorney, all disagree with how you interpret 10:04AM 13 that one provision in State law. 10:04AM 14 MR. DON VOELKEL: I am not an attorney, but 10:04AM 15 I can read and that's not what I am going -- 10:04AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're not reading 10:04AM 17 it the way the attorney say it's -- 10:04AM 18 MR. DON VOELKEL: But I'm not -- 10:04AM 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't -- but I'm 10:05AM 20 saying, I think, we may be able to do it if we can 10:05AM 21 adopt, if we want, rules outside of 232 alone. 10:05AM 22 MR. DON VOELKEL: That was one issue. And 10:05AM 23 I am probably beating a dead horse, but I'm just looking 10:05AM 24 at it from a practical consumer, a guy who has a lot 10:05AM 25 line and wants to move it because the guy's 62 10:05AM 1 air-conditioner is over the line. 10:05AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, or the 10:05AM 3 subdivision is screwed up. 10:05AM 4 MR. DON VOELKEL: Not that. Never that. 10:05AM 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do that. 10:05AM 6 MR. DON VOELKEL: We can't fix all those 10:05AM 7 problems. So I realize I am beating a dead horse, but I 10:05AM 8 just can't get over that. 10:05AM 9 The other question I have is all of these 10:05AM 10 rules are for people who follow the rules, like, when 10:05AM 11 people put up a gate they're just keeping the honest 10:05AM 12 people honest by locking it if a guy -- 10:05AM 13 JUDGE KELLY: That's all the laws are. 10:05AM 14 MR. DON VOELKEL: What can we do -- like, 10:05AM 15 Lee and I had a client, actually Lee did, came in a 10:05AM 16 proposed client, wanted to take like an eight or nine 10:06AM 17 acre track and cut it into four tracks, and he said we 10:06AM 18 can't do it for you because that's against the State law 10:06AM 19 and against the Kerr County subdivision regulations, so 10:06AM 20 we didn't do the work. 10:06AM 21 Well, a couple of years later I am 10:06AM 22 surveying the land next to that and I look at the deeds 10:06AM 23 and he had -- he went to another local surveyor who did 10:06AM 24 it. He cut it up into two acre tracks with 20-foot 10:06AM 25 strips coming out, didn't follow replat, did it as a 63 10:06AM 1 family partition, but he circumvented the rules, and now 10:06AM 2 this exist. My question is: What can we do to keep 10:06AM 3 this from -- 10:06AM 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What's the 10:06AM 5 consequence? 10:06AM 6 MR. DON VOELKEL: Yeah, we should have 10:06AM 7 taken that job and gotten paid because there's no 10:06AM 8 consequences, but we didn't take it. 10:06AM 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That sounds like 10:06AM 10 something you want to take up with your surveyor's 10:06AM 11 association of Texas. 10:06AM 12 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, maybe. 10:06AM 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, and sanction 10:06AM 14 people that disregard the rules. 10:06AM 15 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, they have. I think 10:06AM 16 it was in Tyler a surveyor got sued for doing what this 10:06AM 17 guy just did. And the court said he didn't do the deed, 10:06AM 18 the owner did the deed. And so they sued the owner, the 10:07AM 19 owner is the only one that got slapped on the wrist. 10:07AM 20 But there's got to be some way we can keep people from 10:07AM 21 just looking at what y'all are doing and every- -- 10:07AM 22 you're doing the right thing, but when people don't go 10:07AM 23 by it what are you going to do about it? If there's no 10:07AM 24 consequences we're not going to fix anything. 10:07AM 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have tried to fix 64 10:07AM 1 it. And the way we have tried, and it's somewhat 10:07AM 2 effective, is we told the environmental health 10:07AM 3 department, do not issue a permit on an illegal 10:07AM 4 subdivision. And that's the check that we have, because 10:07AM 5 if someone buys a lot we presume they'll eventually 10:07AM 6 build a house on it and if it's illegal, but in that 10:07AM 7 situation all we do is make that one person do it and 10:07AM 8 then the next neighbor has to do it and the next 10:07AM 9 neighbor and it's kind of a convoluted system that I am 10:07AM 10 not sure is great, but that's all we have right now. 10:07AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's not bad. 10:07AM 12 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, I am just saying it 10:07AM 13 is a problem and we ran across it because -- I am not 10:07AM 14 saying we turn away every job that ever comes in, but on 10:08AM 15 jobs like that we don't do them. And on -- mainly, 10:08AM 16 because we know the rules and try to abide by the rules, 10:08AM 17 especially, with Lee being the county surveyor. We 10:08AM 18 think we have to, and so we don't do that. I am just 10:08AM 19 saying -- 10:08AM 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What would you suggest 10:08AM 21 that we could do? 10:08AM 22 MR. DON VOELKEL: I don't know. 10:08AM 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's bound to have 10:08AM 24 crossed your mind what you would like to see happen. 10:08AM 25 MR. DON VOELKEL: Something needs to happen 65 10:08AM 1 against somebody or they will say Joe Blow got away with 10:08AM 2 it. 10:08AM 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What is it? 10:08AM 4 MR. DON VOELKEL: I don't know. That's why 10:08AM 5 I'm -- maybe another workshop. 10:08AM 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's laws against 10:08AM 7 what happened over the weekend. You are not supposed to 10:08AM 8 shoot people in this country, somebody went and did it. 10:08AM 9 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, if it gets to that 10:08AM 10 we've got other issues. 10:08AM 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's always going to 10:08AM 12 be that way and on a sliding scale from your problem to 10:08AM 13 that one people are breaking laws right this minute. 10:08AM 14 MR. DON VOELKEL: That's true. 10:08AM 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And there's not a 10:08AM 16 whole lot we can do about it. 10:08AM 17 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, I think y'all are 10:08AM 18 on the right track and I am not trying to cast 10:08AM 19 dispersions on anything y'all are doing. I think it's a 10:09AM 20 wonderful thing. So, I'm just bringing up some of the 10:09AM 21 issues that we run across all the time. 10:09AM 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just another thing 10:09AM 23 to think about, right now any division less than 10 10:09AM 24 acres you have to file a plan. Gillespie County it has 10:09AM 25 to be three lots, four lots. 66 10:09AM 1 MR. DON VOELKEL: Five. 10:09AM 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five lots. If it's 10:09AM 3 less than -- you know, if no roads are laying out then 10:09AM 4 it's just divided, it can be the first five lots you 10:09AM 5 don't have to put a plat. 10:09AM 6 MR. DON VOELKEL: They are allowing roads 10:09AM 7 to be laid out, because I have done them. 10:09AM 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I bring it up 10:09AM 9 because, just because I happen to drive by it all the 10:09AM 10 time, the guy on Lane Valley carved out five acres or 10:09AM 11 5.01 acres so we could be over enough and the front is 10:09AM 12 on Lane Valley and he had to file a one acre plat. I 10:09AM 13 looked at that and I'm going what is the benefit to 10:09AM 14 anybody to have to do that one lot? Our rules say he 10:10AM 15 had to, he followed the rules, he did it, and I think he 10:10AM 16 got burned by the surveyor or maybe Eric -- Eric, you 10:10AM 17 didn't do that. Anyway. It was, you know, and I'm 10:10AM 18 bringing it up because we do have the ability to do 10:10AM 19 things like that. We can modify it. We originally 10:10AM 20 adopted the State law as it is, but there are areas they 10:10AM 21 we can modify it. And we can do what Don's talking 10:10AM 22 about. We can figure out what to do properly about the 10:10AM 23 revisions, minor revisions. 10:10AM 24 We can also raise the number of lots you 10:10AM 25 have to have for a subdivision. So anyway, I am just 67 10:10AM 1 bringing that up because we can do some other things. 10:10AM 2 There's a lot of unintended consequences when you start 10:10AM 3 doing those things and we need to think about them, but 10:10AM 4 we do have that ability. 10:10AM 5 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, good. 10:10AM 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think the county 10:10AM 7 surveyor is in favor of that, aren't you? 10:10AM 8 MR. LEE VOELKEL: I'm sorry, I wasn't 10:10AM 9 paying attention. 10:10AM 10 JUDGE KELLY: He was asleep. 10:10AM 11 MR. LEE VOELKEL: Yes, I'm in favor of what 10:11AM 12 Commissioner Letz said. 10:11AM 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Well, so 10:11AM 14 re-platting that one acre that's he talking about on 10:11AM 15 Lane Valley. I have had conversations with you about 10:11AM 16 that and you seem to be in favor of that. So maybe you 10:11AM 17 could -- 10:11AM 18 MR. LEE VOELKEL: In favor of doing a 10:11AM 19 one-acre lot. No, I am not. 10:11AM 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No? 10:11AM 21 MR. LEE VOELKEL: For one-lot subdivision I 10:11AM 22 am not in favor of that. You maybe misunderstood me, 10:11AM 23 but I am kind of with John Sledge, I don't see the 10:11AM 24 purpose of it. Who are we benefiting? Who is 10:11AM 25 benefiting from it? 68 10:11AM 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I did 10:11AM 2 misunderstand you. I thought you were the replat guy, 10:11AM 3 Mr. Replat. 10:11AM 4 MR. LEE VOELKEL: I'm trying to make a 10:11AM 5 replat more simple is what I am trying to do and right 10:11AM 6 now that's not where we are, they're very difficult. 10:11AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: They are probably the 10:11AM 8 hardest, because of all the public hearings and all the 10:11AM 9 notifications, it's just lengthy. 10:11AM 10 MR. LEE VOELKEL: It is. 10:11AM 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, how can we fix 10:11AM 12 that? 10:11AM 13 MR. LEE VOELKEL: We will talk about that 10:11AM 14 in a workshop. I have my comments, but I think it would 10:11AM 15 take a long time to go through that without a workshop. 10:11AM 16 I really like what the judge is talking about so that we 10:11AM 17 can all understand what we are really trying to do. 10:12AM 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. I think we 10:12AM 19 ought to hear from the county surveyor on it. 10:12AM 20 JUDGE KELLY: And we did. 10:12AM 21 MR. HASTINGS: Lee, real quick the -- 10:12AM 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, he was asleep 10:12AM 23 through part of it. 10:12AM 24 (Laughter) 10:12AM 25 MR. HASTINGS: I have got a workshop for 69 10:12AM 1 model subdivision, drainage, OSSF, water availability, 10:12AM 2 variances and -- 10:12AM 3 MR. LEE VOELKEL: Replats. 10:12AM 4 MR. HASTINGS: You want to add revision of 10:12AM 5 plats or replats? 10:12AM 6 MR. LEE VOELKEL: Revision of plats. 10:12AM 7 MR. HASTINGS: Revision of plats, make sure 10:12AM 8 that's on there. 10:12AM 9 MR. LEE VOELKEL: Right. 10:12AM 10 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 10:12AM 11 MR. LEE VOELKEL: And if I could add 10:12AM 12 another one I would like to see, I'm here this morning 10:12AM 13 to talk about -- not this morning to talk about it, but 10:12AM 14 Headwaters is so important in our county and we are not 10:12AM 15 including Headwaters in our processing. We have got to 10:12AM 16 start doing that, and I would like to talk about that in 10:12AM 17 a workshop, also. Headwaters needs to be in the 10:12AM 18 approval of plats; in my opinion. 10:12AM 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They came to keep an 10:12AM 20 eye on us today. 10:12AM 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Charlie -- I've met 10:12AM 22 some, but Charlie has met with Headwaters, with Gene and 10:12AM 23 Chris, a lot. Trying to, you know, it's -- 10:13AM 24 MR. HASTINGS: We try and get them plugged 10:13AM 25 in at the concept plan. 70 10:13AM 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, the challenges 10:13AM 2 of our authority coming from here and their's coming 10:13AM 3 from here and trying to mesh them legally can be 10:13AM 4 difficult, but I think we have done a pretty good job of 10:13AM 5 working with Headwaters. 10:13AM 6 MR. HASTINGS: We send folks that way all 10:13AM 7 the time, make sure you go visit with Gene. 10:13AM 8 JUDGE KELLY: And if we forget remind us, 10:13AM 9 okay. We want you to be part of the process. 10:13AM 10 Eric? 10:13AM 11 MR. ASHLEY: I would, also, like to 10:13AM 12 compliment Charlie and Mr. Letz. I think they are doing 10:13AM 13 an excellent job and I know it doesn't always sound like 10:13AM 14 that, we complain and we whine. 10:13AM 15 I am Eric Ashley the surveyor. There's 10:13AM 16 just a few little things I'd like to mention. I just -- 10:13AM 17 I just can't -- it just doesn't make -- you know, I like 10:14AM 18 to be logical. But, for instance, if I get a septic 10:14AM 19 permit and I have 15 acres and then I want to sell off, 10:14AM 20 you know, I struggle to make payments for 20 years, 10:14AM 21 10 years whatever, and I sell off five acres. Now, I 10:14AM 22 have got to prove that my licensed septic system is 10:14AM 23 functioning and pay a land surveyor to come look at it 10:14AM 24 when we get our replat and, you know. So to me that's 10:14AM 25 like double indemnity, it's like being tried twice for 71 10:14AM 1 the same crime and having to pay for it twice. So 10:14AM 2 that's something that I don't understand. 10:14AM 3 Another -- the process is not user friendly 10:14AM 4 and it's not Charlie's fault and it's not Jonathan's 10:14AM 5 fault, it's just the process, but if I -- there could 10:14AM 6 be some quality control and if the commissioners will 10:15AM 7 all get more involved. And if we could include 10:15AM 8 commissioner's on e-mail chains with the public, the 10:15AM 9 taxpayer, that keeps you in the loop of what's going on. 10:15AM 10 And when there's a little issue with OSSF or whatever 10:15AM 11 that you're aware of it, you know, so -- 10:15AM 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let me stop you right 10:15AM 13 there. 10:15AM 14 MR. ASHLEY: Yes, sir. 10:15AM 15 JUDGE KELLY: Because we do have open 10:15AM 16 meeting requirements and you can't put all of this in 10:15AM 17 that conversation at one time. Because we can only talk 10:15AM 18 to one other commissioner on any given topic at any 10:15AM 19 given time unless we're in a public meeting, and the 10:15AM 20 public doesn't always understand that, but that's -- 10:15AM 21 MR. ASHLEY: And I don't, I apologize. 10:15AM 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that includes 10:15AM 23 e-mails. 10:15AM 24 JUDGE KELLY: But you can send that e-mail 10:15AM 25 to Charlie, you can send that e-mail to Jodi who is our 72 10:15AM 1 boss -- 10:15AM 2 MR. ASHLEY: Yes, sir. 10:15AM 3 JUDGE KELLY: -- for all practical 10:15AM 4 purposes, everyone knows that. 10:15AM 5 MR. ASHLEY: Maybe we can include the 10:15AM 6 commissioner that's the precinct? 10:15AM 7 JUDGE KELLY: You can. 10:15AM 8 MR. ASHLEY: And that way -- 10:15AM 9 JUDGE KELLY: I'm just cautioning you, 10:15AM 10 don't start sending it to all five of us because if you 10:15AM 11 do that she's going to be all over us. 10:16AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He can. No, he can 10:16AM 13 send it. He can send it to everybody. 10:16AM 14 JUDGE KELLY: He can send it? 10:16AM 15 MS. STEBBINS: But y'all can't reply -- 10:16AM 16 JUDGE KELLY: We can't reply. 10:16AM 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, we can't reply. 10:16AM 18 MR. LEE VOELKEL: That's why nobody replies 10:16AM 19 to me. 10:16AM 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He can send it. 10:16AM 21 (Laughter) 10:16AM 22 MS. STEBBINS: The public may not know 10:16AM 23 this. When topics come up that where there are small 10:16AM 24 problems Charlie and Ashli, and her department, they 10:16AM 25 usually will include the commissioner in those 73 10:16AM 1 conversations, and me, in the precinct for that, for 10:16AM 2 wherever the property is located. So usually those 10:16AM 3 conversations are happening amongst county staff and the 10:16AM 4 commissioner when problems come up. For whatever that's 10:16AM 5 worth. 10:16AM 6 JUDGE KELLY: We do have a member of the 10:16AM 7 press here, maybe you ought to get this in the paper so 10:16AM 8 the public knows we can't respond to these things. When 10:16AM 9 everybody's in the loop we just have to look at it. We 10:16AM 10 really can't. If we respond we get in trouble. 10:16AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We can respond to that 10:16AM 12 first one but not to everyone. 10:16AM 13 MR. ASHLEY: And one of the things we can 10:17AM 14 help with quality control and try to make this more 10:17AM 15 efficient and timely and cost effective for the taxpayer 10:17AM 16 would to be just have a questionnaire at the end of a 10:17AM 17 platting process for the person that went through it to 10:17AM 18 be reviewed by either the commissioner of the precinct 10:17AM 19 or maybe a liaison from the court. Suggestions or, you 10:17AM 20 know, so that's a suggestion that I have. And I 10:17AM 21 appreciate y'all including the county surveyor more. 10:17AM 22 He's got a world of knowledge, a lifetime of experience, 10:17AM 23 and it's the perspective of the user as opposed to the 10:17AM 24 perspective of the county and the government. And he 10:17AM 25 doesn't get paid, and he spends several hours a week 74 10:17AM 1 just dealing with the public and giving free 10:17AM 2 suggestions. And I call him all the time and bug him. 10:17AM 3 Most of the platting that's done in 10:17AM 4 the county is not by a developer, it's generally done by 10:18AM 5 a land owner that just maybe dividing or moving the 10:18AM 6 property line, at least, from my perspective and I think 10:18AM 7 probably the Voelkel's perspective. 10:18AM 8 Anyway, I strongly encourage the workshop. 10:18AM 9 I do think there needs to be a little bit more input 10:18AM 10 from the other commissioners and the public, just some 10:18AM 11 little fine line details. And one way to streamline 10:18AM 12 this process is the one that Don is pushing for, which 10:18AM 13 is debatable whether or not it's legal. And in most 10:18AM 14 real estate transactions they will have a 30- or 45-day 10:18AM 15 closing. And they will call us and say, Hey, why don't 10:18AM 16 you cutoff five acres for a closing? Well, it's going 10:18AM 17 to be three to four months. That's the reality of going 10:18AM 18 through this process, because we have to wait a few 10:19AM 19 weeks before we get to the work, a few weeks before we 10:19AM 20 get it completed, we submit it, and if we don't meet the 10:19AM 21 two-week deadline for the Commissioners' Court then 10:19AM 22 we're bumping it back another two weeks and then you've 10:19AM 23 got a six-week public notice. That's the reality of the 10:19AM 24 time involved. 10:19AM 25 Anyway, I appreciate y'all's time and look 75 10:19AM 1 forward to -- oh, one more comment. The city does have 10:19AM 2 a DRC meeting regularly. 10:19AM 3 MR. DON VOELKEL: They used to. 10:19AM 4 MR. ASHLEY: Development Review Committee. 10:19AM 5 I think it would be extremely helpful if once a month a 10:19AM 6 county engineer rep, Headwaters rep, OSSF rep, county 10:19AM 7 surveyor rep, if we could just come together, and you 10:19AM 8 tell the public, Look you don't know what you can do 10:19AM 9 with your land? Why don't you go to this monthly 10:19AM 10 meeting and we will have reps from the various entities. 10:20AM 11 And I think that could be a possible way to help people 10:20AM 12 understand the process a little better and to streamline 10:20AM 13 it a little better rather that running here and getting 10:20AM 14 the question and running there to make an appointment 10:20AM 15 and running all over the county, which is what we have 10:20AM 16 to do. Why not put a little more of the pressure on the 10:20AM 17 public employees to meet and then allow the taxpayer to 10:20AM 18 come and get knowledge from the various entities. 10:20AM 19 So, thank you very much for your time. 10:20AM 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you, Eric. 10:20AM 21 Any other public comment on the subdivision 10:20AM 22 rules? 10:20AM 23 Okay. Do we have departments here? Any 10:20AM 24 department heads want to give a report? That's 5.2, we 10:20AM 25 kind of skipped over it. 76 10:20AM 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You going to do 5.1? 10:20AM 2 JUDGE KELLY: We don't have anything, we 10:20AM 3 will come back to 5.1. 10:20AM 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 10:20AM 5 JUDGE KELLY: Any elected officials? I 10:20AM 6 know we have jail report on here, you going to report on 10:20AM 7 the jail, Sheriff? 10:20AM 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want one real 10:21AM 9 quick, I guess, I can. 10:21AM 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well? 10:21AM 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So far, this budget 10:21AM 12 year as of the end of June, I have not calculated July's 10:21AM 13 yet, for out of county housing -- 10:21AM 14 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Chris, Gene. 10:21AM 15 Thank y'all. 10:21AM 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- we have billed out 10:21AM 17 $775,070 to other counties for out-of-county housing. 10:21AM 18 So I think that's way above what we estimated at the 10:21AM 19 300-something-thousand. And that's, like I said, that's 10:21AM 20 through June. July, August and September still, and our 10:21AM 21 numbers are actually going up again. So, as of this 10:21AM 22 morning we are housing total inmate population of 236. 10:21AM 23 30 of those are Medina County, 11 are Kendall County and 10:22AM 24 one is Menard County. So Medina County has been going 10:22AM 25 up quite a bit in the last week. 77 10:22AM 1 JUDGE KELLY: I send him a personal thank 10:22AM 2 you note every month. 10:22AM 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I talked to the 10:22AM 4 sheriff and I didn't realize they were, also, housing in 10:22AM 5 Live Oak County. And so I told him, I said, we had room 10:22AM 6 if you wanted to send more than what he had been and all 10:22AM 7 of a sudden we have jumped up, so, I don't know. 10:22AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You need to coin the 10:22AM 9 term, We'll keep the lights on for you. 10:22AM 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's staying 10:22AM 11 busy. It does put more burden on the jail staff and 10:22AM 12 that type of thing when you are trying to keep 236 10:22AM 13 inmates, that's a lot of inmates that they are taking 10:22AM 14 care of, legals and orders, so it's a big change in 10:22AM 15 that. 10:22AM 16 On our monthly report for just -- 10:22AM 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So 236, so 244 is what 10:22AM 18 your limit is, correct, as I recall? 10:23AM 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 328 beds is what we 10:23AM 20 have out of 2 -- 10:23AM 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 328, okay -- 10:23AM 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About 300 is when I 10:23AM 23 would say we are shutting it off. 10:23AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 10:23AM 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that would all 78 10:23AM 1 depend on how we classify that -- 10:23AM 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, got you. 10:23AM 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- but it would be 10:23AM 4 somewhere around that. So we can still handle and we're 10:23AM 5 staffed to be able to handle that, too. 10:23AM 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay, good. 10:23AM 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So we do have enough 10:23AM 8 staff. 10:23AM 9 Immigration detainers, we are averaging 10:23AM 10 anywhere from eight to nine a day. Total values for the 10:23AM 11 month of July was 233 inmate days. If you were to take 10:23AM 12 all the inmates that we have had detainers at an average 10:23AM 13 cost of about $41.30 a day. So we spend almost 10:23AM 14 10,000 -- $9,600 on those immigration detainers. 10:23AM 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right, I remember you 10:23AM 16 said it was about $10,000 a month, as I recall. 10:23AM 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it's staying 10:23AM 18 pretty close to that, pretty close to that amount. 10:23AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's significant. 10:23AM 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Other than that there 10:24AM 21 really isn't any big issues. No new lawsuits yet, I 10:24AM 22 haven't had to bother Heather with. It will probably 10:24AM 23 come, that's not unusual. 10:24AM 24 MS. STEBBINS: Thank you. 10:24AM 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But other than that 79 10:24AM 1 that's really all I've got with the jail. 10:24AM 2 JUDGE KELLY: Good. Thank you. Any other 10:24AM 3 public officials have a report? 10:24AM 4 Let's go back to 5.1 on the agenda which is 10:24AM 5 the liaison/commissioner status reports. 10:24AM 6 What do we have to report? 10:24AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I've got about eight 10:24AM 8 things. 10:24AM 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay, quickly. 10:24AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Airport. I don't 10:24AM 11 really have any specifics, but there's two real 10:24AM 12 opportunities out there for businesses, okay. We are 10:24AM 13 working pretty seriously with KABC. That could be good. 10:24AM 14 And there's some maybe other storms on the horizon which 10:24AM 15 could be negative, but anyways, that will be brought to 10:24AM 16 you soon. 10:24AM 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, if you'll follow up on 10:24AM 18 that so that everybody knows the first joint meeting 10:24AM 19 that we tried to schedule with the city, put out those 10:24AM 20 dates of the 16th and 17th, I need to hear back from 10:24AM 21 y'all. It's going to be devoted to discussions about 10:25AM 22 the airport. 10:25AM 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good deal. 10:25AM 24 On economic development there, I mentioned 10:25AM 25 two real targets out at the airport, there are two other 80 10:25AM 1 real targets that KEDC is working. And I just want to 10:25AM 2 say that Gil Salinas the CEO over there is doing a great 10:25AM 3 job. He laid out the strategy. I think he presented to 10:25AM 4 the Court while I was out the other day on the way he 10:25AM 5 plans on involving the entire community. So he's doing 10:25AM 6 a super job. 10:25AM 7 Veteran's service officer. There will be a 10:25AM 8 new person which will be brought on board a week from 10:25AM 9 today. So that's good, part time. Part-time, 10:25AM 10 full-time, so... 10:25AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: Very impressive. 10:25AM 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: She is very 10:25AM 13 impressive, and very excited, and very enthusiastic 10:25AM 14 about doing the job. So, that's a good thing. That's a 10:25AM 15 good thing. 10:25AM 16 On the parks, which isn't a specific item, 10:26AM 17 but the playground equipment may be delivered today, 10:26AM 18 okay. They were saying the first of September, but I 10:26AM 19 think it's going to be here sooner than that. So we 10:26AM 20 have got detailed plans that are developed on how to 10:26AM 21 install it. I don't think we're going to need road and 10:26AM 22 bridge to do everything. I think Shane can do it 10:26AM 23 with -- we'll have to work with him on his schedule, and 10:26AM 24 then get volunteers to help. So details on that will be 10:26AM 25 forthcoming on how to do it as quickly as we can. 81 10:26AM 1 On emergency services. Going back to what 10:26AM 2 happened last Friday, this weekend, I have a question on 10:26AM 3 our emergency management, and maybe the sheriff knows 10:26AM 4 about it. Do we have plans in place like El Paso did if 10:26AM 5 we have a mass shooting, like they did, where they are 10:27AM 6 coordinated, and dry run, and exercised all the entities 10:27AM 7 that need to be done with the hospital, law enforcement, 10:27AM 8 et cetera, et cetera, and also in cooperation with other 10:27AM 9 counties, Gillespie County and so forth? 10:27AM 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, we do to a 10:27AM 11 degree. I will say there have been some scenario ones 10:27AM 12 done, some table top things done. Our emergency 10:27AM 13 management plan covers all those types of situations. 10:27AM 14 There have been training at our schools. It's been a 10:27AM 15 while since we did one here in the courthouse late at 10:27AM 16 night. But, you know, where we actually had an active 10:27AM 17 shooter scenarios, where officers from different 10:27AM 18 agencies go in and go through the schools and things 10:27AM 19 like that. 10:27AM 20 So, yes, there has been. Could we do more, 10:27AM 21 certainly. You know, but it's hard to get all of those 10:27AM 22 groups of people together to actually do it. And it 10:27AM 23 gets very expensive to do it. 10:27AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I understand. I 10:27AM 25 was super impressed with what El Paso hospital said what 82 10:28AM 1 they had done. You know, they worked through that, they 10:28AM 2 planned for it, they exercised their training, and what 10:28AM 3 they were going to do and how to do it. 10:28AM 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, they actually -- 10:28AM 5 the hospital has a very good team put together for 10:28AM 6 emergency stuff where they can come out and triage in 10:28AM 7 different places, and it's a pretty well set up system. 10:28AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. And then the 10:28AM 9 other thing on this same subject, emergency management 10:28AM 10 and planning, the Lt. Governor Dan Patrick had a really 10:28AM 11 good question on the Sunday Morning, I think it was, He 10:28AM 12 said, What's changed, you know? When he was a youth, 10:28AM 13 when we were all youths, you know, those types of things 10:28AM 14 were not happening. So what has changed? And I don't 10:28AM 15 know the answer to that, but something -- this entire 10:28AM 16 community may -- 10:28AM 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mental health and 10:28AM 18 video games, and kids thinking that's reality. 10:28AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, he mention -- he 10:28AM 20 talked about that a whole lot. I don't know. Not that 10:29AM 21 we can solve it, but we can certainly be aware of it. 10:29AM 22 That's enough on emergency management. 10:29AM 23 The other thing is flood control. Flood 10:29AM 24 warning system. There is kind of a little glimmer of 10:29AM 25 hope with what the governor has done. We thought we 83 10:29AM 1 might get some money for that, but I think that's 10:29AM 2 probably not going to happen until next year. So anyway 10:29AM 3 we will just keep our standard queue on that. 10:29AM 4 IT part of the problem about that -- 10:29AM 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick on that, 10:29AM 6 Commissioner, on the flood thing. 10:29AM 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Huh? 10:29AM 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick on the 10:29AM 9 flood stuff, just remember I think it was August the 10:29AM 10 12th of 1977 was one of our first floods around. So we 10:29AM 11 are encroaching on that time of year to where floods are 10:29AM 12 going to be -- if I'm not mistaken that was August the 10:29AM 13 12th. 10:29AM 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's when the 10:29AM 15 children died in Comfort? 10:30AM 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it was in the 80s. 10:30AM 17 This was a tropical depression that came up here and 10:30AM 18 sat. Almost 30 inches in 24 hours. 10:30AM 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 10:30AM 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's when the water got 10:30AM 21 over 39, right? 10:30AM 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It got over -- I saw a 10:30AM 23 log being shoved up on top of this big rig. 10:30AM 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It got over the 480 10:30AM 25 bridge, too, didn't it? 84 10:30AM 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 480 bridge was way 10:30AM 2 under water. This Sydney Baker bridge had logs on top 10:30AM 3 of it. 10:30AM 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I think the 480 10:30AM 5 bridge is 25 feet above water, something like that. 10:30AM 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, I think that one 10:30AM 7 can go under two or three times. 10:30AM 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think twice for 10:30AM 9 sure. 10:30AM 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's that time. 10:30AM 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The library. The 10:30AM 12 library plans on upgrading for capital improvements 10:30AM 13 using $400,000 in memorial funds for a series of a bunch 10:30AM 14 of capital improvements here. So that's good. 10:30AM 15 And that's it. 10:30AM 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Do you have anything? 10:30AM 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, sir. 10:30AM 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things. And to 10:31AM 19 expand a little bit, Commissioner Moser and myself have 10:31AM 20 been asked by the city to attend their annual -- annual 10:31AM 21 services library meeting, which I forgot we actually 10:31AM 22 had, but they didn't forget. So, we're trying to 10:31AM 23 schedule that sometime in the next week or so. 10:31AM 24 And then on the 13th, morning of the 13th, 10:31AM 25 at 9:30 at TJJR Auditorium will be a flood control 85 10:31AM 1 stakeholders meeting. I talked to Director Kathleen 10:31AM 2 Jackson with the Water Development Board and she asked 10:31AM 3 if we'd try and get as many people to attend as 10:31AM 4 possible. Probably should post that. And it's the 10:31AM 5 governor -- I forgot the legislation that was past, but 10:31AM 6 the Water Development Board was given a lot more 10:31AM 7 authority over flood planning. And this is kind of a 10:31AM 8 stakeholders meeting here about how to better do it. 10:31AM 9 And Director Paup will be here from -- or one of the 10:32AM 10 three directors, but Director Paup will be here for that 10:32AM 11 meeting. And it supposed to last up to two hours, and 10:32AM 12 just so we can put it on the calendar. 10:32AM 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 10:32AM 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's one other 10:32AM 15 thing, too. TxDot is going for money. TxDot is having 10:32AM 16 a planning session within the next week or two, I think, 10:32AM 17 on regional plans and asking for input. So I sent in 10:32AM 18 something which was a reminder that there needs to be a 10:32AM 19 major thoroughfare between Highway 173 and 16 so it's 10:32AM 20 not just for a real boardwalk. That's in the 2050 plan 10:32AM 21 of the city, but some of this falls outside of the city 10:32AM 22 limits, too. So that's a really badly needed 10:32AM 23 interchange. So if there's anything else anybody has 10:32AM 24 from the county we need to submit it online. 10:32AM 25 JUDGE KELLY: I want to let you know, 86 10:32AM 1 remind y'all about our meeting on Thursday with 10:33AM 2 volunteer fire departments. We're going to be 10:33AM 3 advocating a best practices policy for all of our county 10:33AM 4 volunteer fire departments. We are going to have Eric 10:33AM 5 Micaso (phonetic) from TAC is going to be here with some 10:33AM 6 of the things that are being done or accepted from 10:33AM 7 insurance coverage. Which is very important for us to 10:33AM 8 know. So I'll remind you of that, it will be at 9 10:33AM 9 o'clock at Youth Event Center. I know we have an open 10:33AM 10 enrollment that day, but we're going to be at the other 10:33AM 11 part of the event center. 10:33AM 12 And the other thing is with regards to our 10:33AM 13 auditor, I did have a chance to meet one of the 10:33AM 14 interviewees last week. The district judges are 10:33AM 15 actively interviewing. We should have a new auditor 10:33AM 16 probably within the month is what it's looking like. 10:33AM 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one other thing. 10:33AM 18 I saw Jennifer. TAC will be sending their real estate 10:33AM 19 appraiser down. He'll be here tomorrow and Wednesday 10:33AM 20 looking at every building. Jennifer has kind of 10:34AM 21 coordinated that. John Quincy is the gentleman named 10:34AM 22 and all the department heads and the officials that will 10:34AM 23 be involved. I know the sheriff has been involved with 10:34AM 24 having received some e-mails. We've got to look at the 10:34AM 25 jail and all that. We are trying to get a schedule. He 87 10:34AM 1 has been difficult to give us his precise schedule. We 10:34AM 2 know he wants to look at every building, but trying to 10:34AM 3 get him to say when he's going to go to each building. 10:34AM 4 I have tried to emphasize to him that you needed to 10:34AM 5 have -- all these buildings are not open to the public. 10:34AM 6 You need to give us warning because you're going to have 10:34AM 7 to have people with you to go into some of these 10:34AM 8 buildings. 10:34AM 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So this is real estate 10:34AM 10 appraisal? 10:34AM 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do it every two 10:34AM 12 years, I think. 10:34AM 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The last time we had 10:34AM 14 to do it at all our radio power sites because of some -- 10:34AM 15 I didn't see that on this deal. 10:34AM 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it was on the 10:34AM 17 list, I got it. 10:34AM 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't see -- the 10:34AM 19 list I got only showed annex and the sheriff's office. 10:34AM 20 MS. DOSS: The highlighted items on the 10:34AM 21 list. 10:34AM 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, it was just the 10:34AM 23 highlighted ones? 10:34AM 24 MS. DOSS: So it's the buildings of 250,000 10:34AM 25 over or new structures is what he said he's looking at. 88 10:35AM 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe not then, I just 10:35AM 2 saw it on the list. 10:35AM 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That helps then if 10:35AM 4 it's not, we don't own them but we own the building. 10:35AM 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Anyway so 10:35AM 6 that's going to be going on and he'll be around the next 10:35AM 7 couple of days. 10:35AM 8 JUDGE KELLY: And a final reminder of that 10:35AM 9 last budget workshop next Monday afternoon. 10:35AM 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In the afternoon? 10:35AM 11 JUDGE KELLY: In the afternoon. 10:35AM 12 Okay. No further business? The Court is 10:35AM 13 adjourned. 14 (Proceedings were concluded) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 89 1 STATE OF TEXAS ) 2 COUNTY OF KERR ) 09:55AM 3 I, KAREN FREEMAN, Certified Shorthand Reporter 4 in and for the State of Texas, and Deputy Reporter in 5 and for Kerr County, do hereby certify that the above 6 and foregoing pages contain and comprise a true and 7 correct transcription of the proceedings had in the 8 above-entitled Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this 27th day of September, A.D. 2019. 10 11 12 /s/ KAREN FREEMAN 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 4254 14 Expiration Date 12/31/19 15 ******* 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25