1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, September 23, 2019 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioner's Comments. 7 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 11 action to recognize Nadene Alford and 5 Eva Washburn for receiving the Certified Elections Registration Administrator, CERA, 6 designation from the Election Center's Professional Education Program and Auburn 7 University. 8 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 13 action to rescind Court Order No. 30983 9 concerning Economic Development Incentive Policy and Court Order 30717 concerning 10 Economic Development Incentive Committee. 11 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 26 action to approve the Texas Statewide 12 Interoperability Channel Plan Memorandum of Understanding. 13 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 30 14 action on request to enter into a 381 Economic Development Agreement with 15 Thompson Drive Partners, L.L.C. for property to be known as The Landing 16 Subdivision. 17 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 67 action to approve the Interlocal Agreement 18 between Kerr County and Nueces County for jail services. 19 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 74 20 action for the Sheriff to publish an RFP and bid pages to the jail and commissary 21 as required by Local Government Code. 22 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 77 action to approve the engagement letter 23 by Armstrong, Vaughan & Associates, P.C. for the audit of the financial statements 24 and single audit for the period ending September 30, 2019. 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 79 action to extend the contract with all 4 Kerr County Volunteer Fire Departments through December 31, 2019. 5 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 92 6 action to approve the General Provisions for FY 2019-2020. 7 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 93 8 action to approve the Grade and Step Schedule for fiscal year 2019-2020. 9 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 93 10 action to approve the two percent cost of living adjustment, COLA, for FY 2019-2020. 11 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 105 12 action on requests from appointed and elected officials to appoint clerks and 13 assistants for their offices pursuant to Local Government Code. 14 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 105 15 action regarding any changes to the proposed Kerr County budget. 16 1.14 Public Hearing on the proposed Kerr 108 17 County budget. 18 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 109 action to adopt FY 2019-2020 Kerr County 19 Budget and take a record vote. 20 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 139 action on a request from Texas Archeological 21 Society to use Flat Rock Park for their Field School from June 10, 2020 to June 20, 22 2020. 23 1.17 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 151 action to ratify the property tax increase 24 as reflected in the budget and take a record vote. 25 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 154 action to adopt the 2019 Lake Ingram 4 Estates Road District tax rate. 5 1.19 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 155 action to take a record vote on the 2019 6 Kerr County tax rate. 7 1.20 Public Hearing for revision of plat for 158 Kerrville Country Estates Section 2, 8 Lot 46, Volume 4, Page 131. 9 1.21 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 158 action for the Court to approve a Final 10 Plat for De Leon Estates, Section Three. 11 1.22 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 159 action for the Court to approve a Final 12 Plat for De Leon Estates, Section Four. 13 1.23 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 160 action for the Court to set a public 14 hearing for 10 a.m. on October 28, 2019 for a revision of plat for Marymeade 15 Subdivision Section One, Lots 26, 27, 28(part), 29(part), Volume 3, Page 9. 16 1.24 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 161 17 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 a.m. on October 28, 2019 18 for revision of plat for Northwest Hills, Lots 133 and 134, Volume 5, Page 30. 19 1.25 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 162 20 action for the Court to grant a variance to the Manufactured Housing Rental 21 Community Regulation's storm water detention calculation requirements. 22 1.26 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 166 23 action for the Court to approve a preliminary plat for Tortuga Arroyo Estates, 24 formerly known as Mision en Las Colinas. 25 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.27 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 169 action to approve Kerr County Investment 4 Policy. 5 1.28 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 170 action to approve setting the cost for a 6 copy of the FY 2019/2020 Kerr County Budget. 7 1.29 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 171 action to designate a day of the week on 8 which the Court shall convene in a regular term for FY 19/20 pursuant to Local 9 Government Code Section 81.005. 10 1.30 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 172 action regarding the schedule for 11 upcoming subdivision workshops. 12 1.31 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 176 action regarding renovations to the Human 13 Resources Department. 14 1.32 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 183 action to approve the Interlocal Agreement 15 between the Upper Guadalupe River Authority (UGRA) and Kerr County for the 2020 Fiscal 16 Year Feral Hog Abatement Program. 17 2.1 Pay Bills. 186 18 2.2 Budget Amendments. 186 19 2.3 Late Bills. 187 20 2.4 Accept Monthly Reports. 187 21 2.5 Court Orders. 188 22 *** Adjournment. 189 23 *** Reporter's Certificate. 190 24 * * * * * * 25 6 1 JUDGE KELLY: It is Monday, September the 2 23rd, 2019, 9 o'clock in the morning, and the Kerr 3 County Commissioners' Court is now in session. Judge 4 Moser will lead us in the prayer and in the pledge. 5 Please stand. 6 (Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: I want to remind everyone 8 about policy on cell phones. If you have a cell phone, 9 you need to turn it off or turn it to quite vibrate, not 10 loud vibrate. If it disturbs the proceedings, our 11 policy is for the Sheriff to take it up and you can get 12 it at the end of the meeting. This is the visitors' 13 input portion of the Commissioners' Court meeting. 14 Anyone that would like to address the Commissioners' 15 Court may come forward and talk to us for about three 16 minutes. You'll needed to identify yourself by name and 17 your address. And for those people that have interest 18 in speaking to the Court, if it is on the agenda, what 19 you want to talk about, if that subject matter is on the 20 agenda, we ask that you wait and talk to us about that 21 when that agenda item comes up. 22 Anyone that wishes to speak to the Court 23 needs to fill out a form at the back. I've got two that 24 I know we have people that want to speak. If there are 25 others, let me advise you now this is an opportunity to 7 1 go back and get your form and get it filled out. 2 Okay. With that, the next thing is for the 3 state of the County. Precinct Number 1. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We had rain. 5 JUDGE KELLY: That's good. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. I say that all 7 just to taunt everyone that didn't. But it didn't hit 8 my house so I'm not paying the right preacher. But it 9 -- we had rain in Precinct 1. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Good. Precinct 2. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We had no rain at my 12 house, maybe Granger did. You know, they always get 13 rain out in that part of Precinct 2. Things are -- I'm 14 going to characterize them as smooth in Precinct 2. And 15 the only reason I say smooth, the highway department is 16 doing a great job on Highway 27. Between the AG barn 17 and other side of Center Point -- I mean, that is 18 really, really a nice improvement on that road and a 19 great thing for safety. Road and Bridge, Kelly and the 20 crew did a great job on Brinks Crossing, on crossing the 21 street, they eliminated 2,200 gallons of water a day. 22 Is that right? The right rate -- 23 MS. HOFFER: Yes, Sir. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- flowing underneath 25 that road and deteriorating it and that's all been fixed 8 1 so that's smooth. And the other thing is the streets in 2 Center Point are getting smoother. Okay. We've torn 3 them all up. All of the sewer lines are in, in Phase 1. 4 The roads won't be torn up anymore and now they're 5 being -- in the process of being repaired and probably 6 over the next two weeks, something like that, they'll 7 all be resurfaced. So things are smooth. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Good. Precinct 3. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one -- it's kind of 10 an odd comment for me to make but it's -- the new 11 National Geographic Magazine, there's an article about 12 feral cats. Which is a topic that I deal with a great 13 deal with as many people know. What was interesting was 14 it wasn't a trap, neuter, release versus euthanizing 15 versus different things. It said -- it was kind of -- 16 for them really objective. That it's a real problem. 17 And there's not -- they didn't really offer a definite 18 solution. 19 But what was interesting in the article was, 20 is the negative effect these feral cat colonies have on 21 birds. And in the lower 48, they estimate that feral 22 cats kill between one and four billion birds a year. 23 Australia is taking -- because of a number of birds that 24 are about to become endangered or fully extinct because 25 of feral cats, are taking some really drastic matters to 9 1 try to get control of their population. So this is a 2 worldwide problem and it was talking about -- I forgot 3 how many, like a hundred billion cats in the world or 4 something. I mean, it's a huge number. But it was -- 5 it was talked about, you know, that euthanizing is a 6 method that's being done. Talked about trap, neuter, 7 release. It was just a good article about how big the 8 problem is without really saying, you know, this is what 9 you should do. Saying that we don't know what to do but 10 there's a problem out there. So micro chipping is one 11 of the things I think helps because then you can track 12 ownership and then you can hold people accountable and 13 that's something that we're looking at doing. Anyway. 14 It's not necessarily just about Precinct 3, but if you 15 take in the whole world it was an interesting article to 16 read. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. 18 Precinct 4. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Ingram Tom Moore had 20 their homecoming the other night. Went well. I think I 21 mentioned it last time. Their volleyball team is ranked 22 number eight in the state now. And those are worth 23 watching. So I encourage you to go out there and watch 24 them. Went to the Ingram street dance. It was very 25 well attended and a good night. I didn't go -- so I 10 1 couldn't going to the YO, but I got a report from Irene 2 this morning that it went very good out there at their 3 YO dance and trying to get that party going again. And 4 I want to remind everybody for the Hill Country District 5 Junior Livestock show and fundraiser is this Saturday, 6 and that's always a fun time. So y'all try to come out. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And on behalf of the 8 entire County, I'd like to report that we have finally 9 staffed our capital improvement planning committee, 10 which I call the CIP. That's the committee we've been 11 talking about for months to help the County plan our 12 future capital needs, which goes anything from whatever 13 we do here at the courthouse on the courthouse grounds 14 to the courthouse annex to the indoor arena or to 15 whatever we end up doing with animal control. I think 16 those are the main topics that they're going to address. 17 We flushed out the committee. The committee 18 now consists of Fred Henneke, Robert Templeton, 19 superintendent from Ingram school, Brenda Hughes, and 20 Pete Calderon from Chamber of Commerce, and Chris Hughes 21 from Broken Arrow Ranch, who is the president of 22 ESD one. That will be our committee. Commissioner Letz 23 and I will serve as co-chairs, along with Peter Lewis, 24 our architect and ex officio member, and we're hoping to 25 kick that off with our first meeting on Columbus Day 11 1 holiday, since the courthouse is closed we're going to 2 try to meet on October the 14th at nine o'clock in the 3 jury room upstairs. So just -- just to let people know 4 we're starting to work on the capital plan. 5 Is there anything else from the State or the 6 County? Then the first item on the agenda is 1.1 7 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 8 recognize Nadene Alford and Eva Washburn for receiving 9 the Certified Elections Registration Administrator, 10 CERA, designation from the Election Center's 11 Professional Education Program and Auburn University. 12 Mr. Reeves. 13 MR. REEVES: Good morning, gentlemen. It's 14 my honor to report to the Court about two of our long 15 time employees who have received the designation that 16 the Judge just read in. There's in the back a chief 17 deputy and elections coordinator, Nadene Alford, and 18 then elections clerk, Eva Washburn. They now carry that 19 CERA designation. It's taken them six years to achieve 20 this. This is offered through the Election Center in 21 Auburn University. Last month, in August, they went to 22 Florida to receive this designation. There are only 23 1206 individuals throughout the United States that 24 carries this designation, which indicates their 25 expertise in election administration, and voter 12 1 registration. So for Kerr County to have two of 1200 2 nationwide, I think we're indeed fortunate. 3 My predecessor, I must give credit, started 4 this program for their education, that was Diane Bolin. 5 I am very much behind that to continue with all of the 6 elections staff. And one of the fortunate things 7 considering what's on the agenda today, as much of their 8 training, travel and accommodation are paid for through 9 money that our office earns through the Secretary of 10 State for voter registration, it's the Title 19 of the 11 voter registration laws, and so it's not costing 12 money -- this money or costing local tax dollars. This 13 money must be spent on various things dealing with voter 14 registration, one of them which is education. 15 So at this time it's my -- if Nadene and Eva 16 stand up, and I just want us to recognize their hard 17 work. It took six years. It's basically a master's 18 degree program that they received in voter registration. 19 I'm very proud of them, and I think the entire County 20 should be. 21 (Applause.) 22 MR. REEVES: I'm sure you've seen the 23 articles that our Public Information Officer has put 24 out. Public relations director. She's done an 25 excellent job of promoting these, but I wanted to bring 13 1 them to Court and recognize them. You know, Nadene is 2 one of the longest serving employees Kerr County has and 3 we're fortunate. And Eva has been with us for 15, 16 4 years. So they -- they show that they're wanting to 5 help and I just want to bring them here today. So thank 6 you. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Great job, ladies. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And for anyone that wants to 9 know more detail, Lisa Walter has a great article. Was 10 it on our website, or Facebook page? 11 MS. WALTER: It was on Facebook. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Facebook. It gives a lot more 13 information about the details as to what they actually 14 studied in order to obtain the certification. It's 15 always good to start the Court with a positive. 16 All right. The next item on the agenda is 17 1.2 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 18 rescind Court Order No. 30983 concerning Economic 19 Development Incentive Policy and Court Order 30717 20 concerning Economic Development Incentive Committee. 21 Commissioner Letz. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First, I want to give 23 credit to Jackie for finding these. These were hanging 24 out there in existence still. And as I commented, this 25 has nothing to do with what's on the agenda today. 14 1 These are policies that were done in 2007, '08, with the 2 Kerr Economic Development Foundation. And that is the 3 reason to get rid of it because that entity doesn't even 4 exist anymore. And there's -- so that is -- the policy 5 was written by them and there's another one that even 6 comes after that that was adopted, and then there's -- 7 and that's Court Order 30983. 8 And then 30717 establishes a committee that 9 to my knowledge has never been populated between City of 10 Kerrville, Kerr County, and others. So these are just 11 two old agreements that we just need to clean up our 12 record a little bit and just to get rid of them because 13 they are not applicable to the entities involved, and 14 one of those is the City of Kerrville, and the City of 15 Ingram is certainly around, but KEDF is not. So I will 16 make a motion that we rescind those two court orders. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Does this -- question. 18 Does this leave us with nothing or did we already have 19 nothing? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's another one 21 already. There's another one, I believe, after this 22 one. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it wasn't 24 approved. It wasn't passed. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It wasn't approved? 15 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It wasn't passed, I 2 don't think, in 2014. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I couldn't find 4 anything else in there. In the court orders. So we 5 already basically had nothing. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Comment. I understand 7 what Commissioner Letz is discussing, however, I don't 8 see a reason to take that action right now. It's a -- 9 the reason being is those court orders reference an 10 agreement between Kerr County, the City of Kerrville, 11 and the City of Ingram on how to look at incentives, 12 using at that time KEDF, but KEDC now has got the same 13 policy on their website. So anybody to come into Kerr 14 County looking for economic development incentives, it 15 refers to those things. 16 So there was -- it was a lot of work. I 17 wasn't here in 2008, but I've researched it quite a bit 18 and knew about it. There was a lot of work done between 19 those three entities and a consultant to come up with 20 the incentive plan. In the incentive policy 21 essentially, which I think is a pretty good policy, it 22 delineates those areas which should be focused on for 23 economic development, okay, and there are four of those 24 professional in the economic development areas to 25 promote. Professional would be corporate management and 16 1 aircraft. The second one is legacy production, aircraft 2 related, jewelry related, plastics, specialty food 3 processing. Third one would be tourism related, 4 high-end lodging and destination retail. That means 5 retail that would bring in people from 50 miles away. 6 The fourth one is advanced building projects. And then 7 the fifth is life sciences. So it delineates those as 8 being the focus, and that's consistent with KEDC 9 strategic objectives now. So I think that that's still 10 there. And it gives a very detailed -- this Court order 11 referencing that incentive policy, gives a very detailed 12 way how to score. Most of it is how to score an 13 application that's being submitted to any one of those 14 entities for providing an incentive. So, you know, I -- 15 I understand -- I think we oughta clean that up. I 16 would -- before we delete those or rescind those court 17 orders and not have any policy in existence, I think we 18 oughta have a replacement policy in place and then -- or 19 update that one, whatever's appropriate, and then take 20 the necessary instruction. I'm not seeing any reason to 21 do it right now. I would, you know, I'd not support 22 that idea. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I disagree with 24 that, and for that I'll withdraw my motion. I might 25 modify it, but the committee has never been populated. 17 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, can I ask a 2 question of the County Attorney? Is this even in place 3 if the committee was -- if it was never completed? 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure, it's in place. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Maybe and maybe not. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a document 7 that -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's a court 9 order that exists. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: It does exist. 11 JUDGE KELLY: It's a court order that wasn't 12 completed because there was no -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, no. The court 14 order exists -- 15 MRS. STEBBINS: There are two different 16 court orders -- 17 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Let me -- let her 19 answer the question. She's the County Attorney. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: There's two different court 21 orders, one is adopting the policy and I think that the 22 other is entering -- is -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Contingent on, or not? 24 MRS. STEBBINS: Contingent on -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: On having a -- 18 1 MRS. STEBBINS: -- the committee? 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: No, I don't think it's -- 4 one -- I don't think that appointing the committee is 5 contingent on the adoption. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's all I wanted to 7 know. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, the Court order -- 9 MRS. STEBBINS: I think the Court adopted 10 the policy. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Excuse me. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The motion is to 13 rescind the Court order. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Excuse me. Let's have one 15 person talk at a time. It's going to be an excited 16 enough day as it is. 17 MS. STEBBINS: I think the Court adopted the 18 policy and then entered into this agreement with the 19 City of Ingram, the City of Kerrville, and Kerr County 20 to adopt the policy as one. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It sounds like a 22 stillborn thing to me. You got to the -- you got to the 23 point where you had -- you -- nobody ever came forward 24 with anybody for the committee. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me -- let me 19 1 comment. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nobody ever was 3 appointed? 4 JUDGE KELLY: One at a time. You get to 5 finish, Harley. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is that -- there's 7 nothing contingent on following through in other words, 8 is what I'm saying. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't understand what 10 you're saying. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If it's not completed. 12 Do you understand what I'm saying? 13 MRS. STEBBINS: I do. I don't think that 14 because there was not a committee appointed that the 15 policy isn't in place. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Here's -- here's what 18 it is. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioner Moser, your turn. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Here's what it 21 is. The court orders exist. The court orders establish 22 through a resolution and court order action, okay, the 23 adoption of the incentive policy and other things. 24 Okay. It's how we -- it's how we participate in 25 economic development. Okay. Those court orders are on 20 1 the books. They exist, okay. The incentive policy 2 exists, okay, and because there hasn't been a need to 3 form a committee to look at a request for incentives 4 doesn't mean it's not applicable. There's just been, to 5 my knowledge, since I've been here for seven years, 6 there's been no need to come forward for incentive. We 7 did an abatement, okay, on a winery and some other 8 things, but we chose to do that. It was consistent with 9 that. We didn't need to go through the scoring of the 10 thing. So if you'll read that policy, okay -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I did. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. You'll see that 13 it's -- it's in existence. Court order is in existence. 14 And it's -- it's a good thing to have a policy by with 15 which everybody in the community understands what the 16 process is for granting incentives. So that's it. So 17 I -- I agree with, you know, if it needs to be cleaned 18 up, modified, deleted, but we oughta have something in 19 place rather than nothing. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But you have it with an 21 entity that no longer exists so we can't just go forward 22 saying we're going to -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The committee is with -- 24 well, actually it doesn't exist. The policy is -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 21 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the committee is 2 immaterial apparently. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. To me -- and I 4 don't disagree with what Commissioner Moser is saying 5 about we need -- you know, reworking it. I think the 6 committee needs to go. Just because it doesn't -- it 7 calls for a membership with KEDF and that doesn't exist, 8 and there's no provision to modify that. And the 9 committee has no impact on the policy and is not being 10 used anyway. So, I mean, I think I'll -- you know, to 11 clarify my motion I'll redo a new motion just to rescind 12 Court Order 30717, which is the committee. And then 13 I'll -- I think we need to bring back 30983 to revise 14 that policy to get it more current. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So your motion 16 is -- let me read the -- let me read the Court Order. 17 So which one are you proposing? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here's the one -- 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: To rescind the -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to approve the 21 resolution submitted and adopt the Kerrville, or Kerr 22 County Economic Plan and -- well, actually it does do 23 the plan, too. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, it does the plan. 25 Yeah. 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the date -- but 2 what's interesting is -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you can't separate 4 them, is that what you're saying? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. This is one of the 6 reasons we have -- all these court orders are -- we need 7 to pay more attention to them, which we are now. This 8 was done in February 2008. The policy, which is the 9 next court order, was done in September of that year. 10 So the plan that was referred to under 30717 either 11 wasn't ever approved or was replaced by the policy. And 12 we can pass on this and look at it at the next meeting. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I -- I would hope that 14 we could pass and look at -- look at this thing in light 15 of where we are today. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think we need 17 -- we need to clean up this and have it correct. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that sounds like 19 a workshop thing to me. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Probably could 21 be a -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Or a meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- workshop. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I need one person to talk at a 25 time, because she can't take them both. 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll withdraw my motion. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I understand that. I 3 would like a point of clarification from our County 4 Attorney. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Policy 30717 deals with the 7 formation of the committee, is that correct? 8 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And is that validly in effect, 10 30717? 11 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think that's -- 12 well, I don't have it in front of me. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here -- 14 MRS. STEBBINS: There's lots of pages that I 15 printed. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- here's the 17 resolution. It's 151 pages, I think. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Yeah. So I don't think that 19 the appointment of committee is the only thing that that 20 did. So I think it is good at this time to pass on it 21 until y'all have an opportunity. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So for -- as a point of 23 clarification, you need to conduct additional study to 24 be able to advise us on the applicability of 30717? 25 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 24 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And that could be the 2 subject of a future workshop; is that correct? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: It should be given a little 4 bit more attention. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Now, to clarify 30983, 6 which was enacted later, several months later, what is 7 the County Attorney's position with regard to that one? 8 MRS. STEBBINS: I believe that one is the 9 incentive -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: It's the policy. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: -- program. Right. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's the policy. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Policy. And so it lays out 14 what the Court and the -- the way the Court should 15 consider and giving incentives for development in the 16 community. 17 JUDGE KELLY: And that remains in effect 18 today? 19 MRS. STEBBINS: It does, Yes, Sir. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So 30983 from -- based 21 on your opinion, is in full force and effect? 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And 30717 needs to be subject 24 to additional study? 25 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 25 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Are there any other 2 questions about that? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't -- I have one 5 comment. I don't know why it's 30717. I don't have an 6 issue with the County Attorney looking at it, but I'm 7 looking at the signed court order right here that was in 8 our backup. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: It is in place, but I think 10 what the question was is that it -- that the Court or 11 some members of the Court wanted to reconsider and amend 12 that some. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, but the question 14 is, is it in place? 15 MRS. STEBBINS: It is. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is. So it's in 17 place. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: With an entity that no 19 longer exists? 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's in place. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: With an entity that no 22 longer exists? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's in place. We can 24 modify it but -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What does that mean? 26 1 You can't just insert somebody else in there. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Let me stop everybody. I'm 3 going to ask the County Attorney to look into this and 4 we can put it back on an agenda and not have this 5 bickering over whether or not it's in place. 6 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. Absolutely. I've got 7 notes to do it already. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You can't do it unless 9 you're -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: And we -- and we will schedule 11 a workshop to discuss this. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good deal. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good. Appreciate that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Boy, I didn't mean to 15 start that one. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Let's get to something 17 really controversial. Item 1.3 consider, discuss and 18 take appropriate action to approve the Texas Statewide 19 Interoperability Channel Plan Memorandum of 20 Understanding. Dub Thomas. 21 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Commissioners. 22 Good morning, Judge. This is the MOU that we talked 23 about at the Volunteer Fire Departments in the workshop. 24 Basically the State of Texas has all the licenses for 25 these, both interoperability channels. And in order for 27 1 the County, Constables and Volunteer Fire Departments to 2 use those interoperability channels we need to engage in 3 that MOU with the State. It's also -- allows us and 4 those other entities to qualify for communications 5 grants, equipment grants. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, Dub, your -- the 7 request is to approve us participating or the Texas 8 Statewide Interoperability Channel Plan -- 9 MR. THOMAS: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- Memorandum of 11 Understanding? 12 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. And I believe the 13 MOU that you have in front of you lists the numbers of 14 mobile radios and portable radios that are involved in 15 that. The State asked for a count of all of our mobile 16 radios and portable radios that have those channels 17 programmed in them. And so we've done a poll from all 18 the Volunteer Fire Departments, all the Constables, 19 Sheriff's Department, Environmental Health, and that's a 20 roundabout number of what we have here. The State's not 21 really interested in a actual total number because they 22 understand that those numbers are going to fluctuate 23 every year, so they just want a general number. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move for approval. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 28 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. There's been a motion 2 by Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew, 3 to approve the Texas Statewide Interoperability Channel 4 Plan, Memorandum of Understanding, presented by Dub 5 Thomas. Floor is open for discussion. Dub, it might be 6 helpful, as you know, I am technically challenged. 7 MR. THOMAS: I'm a two tin can and a string 8 kind of guy, Judge. 9 JUDGE KELLY: But as I go to these meetings 10 and I listen to you and I listen to the Volunteer Fire 11 Departments, I listen to the fire chief, and I listen to 12 other people talk about that, and the Sheriff's 13 Department, you have different megahertz. Megahertz are 14 a big deal in this business. And could you just briefly 15 explain to us what you're doing with the different types 16 of megahertz devices with regard to this plan? 17 MR. THOMAS: That's all -- basically, it's 18 our hand-held radios, our portable radios that the 19 deputies and the constables carry around and the mobiles 20 are the mobile units that are in our patrol cars. We 21 also have some of those that are listed on there that 22 are actual base station type radios that are in our 23 command communications trailer. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And those are -- which ones 25 are the 700 megahertz? 29 1 MR. THOMAS: That's in the communications 2 trailer. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 4 MR. THOMAS: Everything else is 150 5 megahertz. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and the purpose of this 7 agreement is for everybody to be able to talk to one 8 another to protect the public? 9 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. Between us and all 10 the other entities that we work with, Texas Forest 11 Service, Texas -- TEEX. All those, all those folks. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Wasn't that an issue in 13 9-11 when so many of the first responders couldn't -- 14 couldn't communicate due to the -- 15 MR. THOMAS: It was one of the biggest 16 complaints everybody's had about the 9-11 operations, is 17 people couldn't talk to each other. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right. 19 JUDGE KELLY: And this is an improvement 20 over the present situation? 21 MR. THOMAS: This is the -- actually, I 22 think this is a continuation of an MOU that was signed 23 about ten years ago. 24 JUDGE KELLY: But it's an improvement? 25 MR. THOMAS: It's basically an improvement, 30 1 Yes, Sir. It makes everybody -- gets everybody on the 2 same page. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And it benefits the people of 4 the County? 5 MR. THOMAS: Benefits the people of the 6 County. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 8 Okay. Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. Five 9 zero. Thank you, Dub. 10 MR. THOMAS: Yes, Sir. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.4 consider, discuss and 12 take appropriate action on request to enter into a 381 13 Economic Development Agreement with Thompson Drive 14 Partners, L.L.C. for property -- for property to be 15 known as The Landing Subdivision. Good morning, 16 Mr. Schulte. 17 MR. SCHULTE: Good morning. I'm Steve 18 Schulte, 228 Galbreath. This is the third time I'm 19 before the Court on this so I'm not going to go through 20 my presentation again. I think you'll be happy about 21 that. But I do want to kind of fill you in on where we 22 are and how we got here. So the first time I made the 23 presentation, the Court was, I think, enthusiastic about 24 it and asked me and Ms. Stebbins to draft a rebate 25 agreement with the County and come back and have that 31 1 approved. So we did that. We came back with an 2 agreement. 3 And we met again, at which point we had a 4 very somewhat lengthy discussion about a rebate versus 5 an abatement. And we brought in Mr. Reeves, and he 6 recommended that we go the abatement route rather than 7 the rebate amount -- way because it would be slightly 8 more advantageous to the County. And so we left with 9 instructions to -- once again, to redraft the agreement 10 to make it an abatement rather than a rebate. 11 So the problem is, we figured out that the 12 County does not have any authority to do an abatement 13 agreement in this situation, because our property is not 14 located in a -- 15 MS. STEBBINS: Reinvestment zone. 16 MR. SCHULTE: -- a reinvestment zone. The 17 County is allowed to enter into an abatement agreement 18 if the property is in a reinvestment zone, which we are 19 not in. So we went back to the drawing board and 20 discussed it again and so we're back on the rebate. And 21 this is -- this is slightly disadvantageous to the 22 County over abatement, but two -- two big things. It's 23 legal, which we want. And number two, we're offering 24 to -- instead of a hundred percent rebate, we're going 25 to offer to do to an 80 percent rebate. So that would 32 1 more than offset the disadvantage to the County by 2 rebating the taxes. And so we're here today to ask for 3 approval of a tax rebate agreement to 80 percent with 4 the County keeping 20 percent on all the improvement. 5 And with that, I'm going to be quiet and listen to your 6 questions. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: My question is about 9 jobs. What kind of jobs is this supposed to bring? 10 MR. SCHULTE: Well, we're going to -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Primary -- primary 12 jobs? 13 MR. SCHULTE: -- well, we had already -- 14 since we started this project, we've already moved our 15 office into the City. We have 10 or 12 full-time 16 employees out there. We're going to have -- our first 17 phase is going to be 120 unit apartment that's going to 18 bring in housing for people who are looking for their 19 primary jobs. We'll have probably a five person staff 20 there. We're going to have town homes with two or three 21 permanent jobs. We're going to have restaurant space. 22 We're going to have retail space. We're going to have, 23 I guess, close to 300 units of new housing, which is 24 designed for workforce for the first responders, for the 25 teachers, for the medical personnel to live in. And so 33 1 not just providing primary jobs, but providing space for 2 people who are looking for primary jobs to live. Which 3 is a big problem right now. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Tell me if I read this 5 right, Steve, that this Phase 1 is housing? 6 MR. SCHULTE: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Phase 2 is retail? 8 MR. SCHULTE: Well, the retail -- as soon as 9 we get our streets in, the retail and the restaurant 10 pads are going to be open for business. That just 11 depends on the market. So we could see retail -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But is that going to be 13 a build to suit or somebody comes in and builds their 14 own? 15 MR. SCHULTE: We're going to do it either 16 way. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Either way. 18 MR. SCHULTE: Normally build to suit. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But -- but your primary 20 concern is building houses? 21 MR. SCHULTE: I wouldn't say it's primary. 22 But it's -- at least the -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's Phase 1? 24 MR. SCHULTE: Phase 1 is -- is housing. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So with Phase 1 34 1 being housing, and what I also -- I didn't see who's 2 going to do -- who's supposed to do the Phase 2? 3 There's nobody named specifically. 4 MR. SCHULTE: We're doing everything. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're doing 6 everything? 7 MR. SCHULTE: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 9 MR. SCHULTE: We own all the property and 10 we're doing -- every arrangement is going to be made 11 with us. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So am I hearing you to 13 say that -- that it could happen at any time that you 14 start with the retail as soon as somebody bites? 15 MR. SCHULTE: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. But for sure the 17 housing goes in -- 18 MR. SCHULTE: And we have -- we have a 19 commercial broker who is actively pursuing those leads 20 right now. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you're -- you're 22 really not talking about a lot of jobs, though? 23 MR. SCHULTE: Not a ton of jobs. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's not an economic 25 boom to the -- 35 1 MR. SCHULTE: Well, your economic boom is 2 going to be having places for people to live and also 3 the tax revenue. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What's going to be the 5 average cost of the housing? The units? 6 MR. Macdonald: To build? 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, no, no. To rent. 8 MR. MACDONALD: About 13 hundred. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What do we define in 10 the Affordable Housing Act? Is that defined, did 11 anybody define what that is? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- I mean, 13 you can figure generally you get a mortgage. It's 14 one-third of your gross income. So that would equate to 15 $40,000 a year or a 40 to $50,000 a year salary. 16 MR. SCHULTE: Yeah, our units will be right 17 in line with the market. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, 40 to 50 thousand 19 would be, you know, 20 to 25 dollars an hour. 20 JUDGE KELLY: And Mr. Schulte, do I 21 understand that the state hospital is bringing, what, 22 about 260 new employees with this extension? 23 MR. SCHULTE: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And one of your target markets 25 is to try to house those people because we don't have 36 1 sufficient affordable housing in the community? 2 MR. SCHULTE: Exactly. We're close to the 3 -- not only to the State hospital, but we're right down 4 the road from Peterson and that whole -- all those 5 people that work in those places are our target market. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's basically -- 7 that's housing for 40 to $50,000.00 a year income, using 8 the multiple -- 9 MR. SCHULTE: I think that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- which sounds like a 11 good one. Let me ask you another question. Harley 12 asked what type of labor or workforce were you going to 13 have there. I don't think you answered that. It sounds 14 like it's primarily weight staff or servicing and retail 15 sales. 16 MR. SCHULTE: Yes, and we'll have some 17 management level people that will be managing -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But -- so you have a -- 19 do you have a number for each one of those categories? 20 MR. SCHULTE: Not off the top of my head, I 21 do not. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: See, I think that's -- 23 that's important when you're looking at economic 24 development incentives. 25 MR. SCHULTE: Right. 37 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is understand, you 2 know, who you're incentivizing. Okay. And housing, 3 like I said before at our earlier meeting, housing can 4 be anyplace in this county. Okay. So the thing -- 5 other than housing, workforce housing, which is an 6 important subject, okay, the other one is -- is -- the 7 other revenue or the commercial part of it, I don't know 8 what that is, but could be retail. Retail sales, could 9 be restaurants, that type of thing, in a venue like 10 that. 11 MR. SCHULTE: Right. And what you're 12 incentivizing, though, by this rebate is you're 13 encouraging and incentivizing us to get this done, to 14 get as much as we can get done in the next five years. 15 Because we know all those improvements will go in and 16 we'll get 80 percent of that back on the front end and 17 it could be reinvested and encourage us to get that done 18 faster. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's true in any real 20 estate development. 21 MR. SCHULTE: Correct. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, that's -- that's 23 a true statement in any real estate development. 24 MR. SCHULTE: Well, but if we're getting -- 25 if we're -- this rebate only lasts for five years. 38 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. But 2 still, my statement I think is correct, it's true -- 3 what you just said is true in any real estate 4 development. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Because sooner you get 6 the revenue come -- sooner it's built -- as soon as the 7 new house is built, the sooner the development is 8 built -- 9 MR. SCHULTE: No, I understand. Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- invariably we've got 11 some other contributors to our ad valorem taxes. Okay. 12 All right. 13 MR. SCHULTE: Right. Any other questions? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a couple comments. 15 I think that -- I mean, I agree with Commissioner Moser 16 that, you know, the quicker any development gets 17 developed, the better for the developer. But the 18 purpose -- you know, the purpose of the -- of the 19 incentive, to me, is to get it done quicker. Because 20 there's no incentive -- I mean, they don't get the 21 benefit and this is a jump start to get the rebate, to 22 get the whole project done quicker. So I think it is an 23 incentive to hurry to get it done and get -- you know, 24 the whole development done in a faster time frame. 25 The other thing is, you know, two, the 39 1 housing is a big part of this to me. And it's something 2 that, you know, every -- gosh, as long as I've been a 3 Commissioner, which is as most people know quite awhile, 4 we've been trying to get housing in this level and 5 lower, but at this level also, the entire time, and this 6 is really the first one that's ever come up in over 20 7 years. That does it. So I think it's kind of a really 8 bad signal when the first one that comes in for 9 something that we have said for years that we need, and 10 we say, no, we're not going to do any kind of incentive 11 for it. So I think that that right there is a good part 12 of it. 13 The other thing is, you know, this Court -- 14 different members up here, but we looked at another 15 community development, called the Gateway. It didn't go 16 forward for whatever reason and I'm not going to go into 17 that. But we pretty much, and I supported it, because 18 -- and it's not a whole lot different than this in the 19 retail and the restaurant side, but this is even, to me, 20 better because it's adding the affordable housing to it 21 as well. So it's a type of a project that I've been in 22 support of for a long, long time. So I think it's a 23 good thing and I appreciate the fact that they're 24 willing to lower -- because there is a slight negative 25 impact to the County, to lower the refund -- rebate to 40 1 80 percent. That way the taxpayers get an immediate 2 benefit as well. 3 MR. SCHULTE: And Commissioner Belew, I 4 didn't finish my answer to your question. The second 5 phase will also include 60 -- about 60 units of 6 apartments for 55 and over. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Previous workforce. 8 MR. SCHULTE: Well, or in my case -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, right. No, I 10 know. I understand. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Why is everybody 12 looking at me? I -- I like the project. I think it's 13 something we need. I think hats off to you guys for 14 coming up with it. But I will tell you right now, we're 15 going to get into something a little bit later. We have 16 a proposed budget that I'm not very proud of. And I 17 have a problem giving away money right off the bat. And 18 so that's my view. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't know how to 20 bring this up relative to incentive plans, okay, so I'll 21 -- let me put that aside. First of all, you 22 mentioned -- somebody mentioned primary jobs. And by 23 definition from the State, economic development a 24 primary job is where money comes into a community, a 25 product is created and then money goes out, it's sold 41 1 outside of the community. That's a primary job. I 2 don't think that retail sales is -- and that was one of 3 the things with Gateway. Retail sales is not creating 4 primary jobs. By definition a primary job. So I don't 5 see any primary jobs that you have in here. Housing, 6 yeah. But I can -- you know, my concern is, number one, 7 you got the project already under way. That's a given. 8 We didn't hear about -- I don't think this thing came to 9 KEDC or anything else to say, look, here's what we want 10 to do, we would like some support from economic 11 development and workforce housing, because workforce 12 housing is the biggest thing that KEDC has as a 13 challenge, as does the City. To the best of my 14 knowledge for the City, not speaking for them. So it's 15 coming in a bit late and I can see very clearly that 16 this is going to be -- somebody else is going to create 17 apartment projects. Okay, let me just call it an 18 apartment project right now. And then they'll want the 19 same thing and on and on and on throughout the County. 20 So are we prepared to give those kinds of abatements, 21 and that's what it would be. And there's a negative on 22 the abatement as far as -- as our -- what's the term I'm 23 trying to think of. 24 MR. SCHULTE: Oh, effective tax rate? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, effective tax 42 1 rate. There's a negative impact to the County on 2 effective tax rate. 3 MR. SCHULTE: Okay. Let me -- let me see if 4 I can respond to all of those. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 MR. SCHULTE: The first is, you recall our 7 conversation and my question to the Court. 8 Is incentivizing apartments for this County a bad thing? 9 I think everybody will agree we don't have a place for 10 people to live. Number two, we didn't go to the KEDC 11 because at the time it was not operating because it 12 didn't have a leader. And number three, the -- let me 13 give you an example. You said there's not enough 14 primary jobs. Everybody also agrees that we need more 15 hotel space, especially nice hotel space. A hotel is 16 not going to create many primary jobs either. But 17 there's still -- I think the Court would not have any 18 problem incentivizing a hotel because all of the other 19 benefits it brings. It's housing. People want to come 20 here and stay in a nice place. They want to come here 21 and live in a nice apartment. And you -- the statute -- 22 this is the kind of thing the statute even encourages is 23 to encourage projects like this that bring other -- lots 24 of benefits to everybody, not just on primary jobs. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, okay. Thank you. 43 1 JUDGE KELLY: And I'd like to address one of 2 your concerns, and that is the precedent effect. I 3 don't look at this as purely a residential economic 4 incentive. I look at this as this is one of the first 5 times we've had truly a 21st century concept creep into 6 Kerr County to have a mixed use development. And it's 7 time that we open our eyes and accept the fact that 8 Kerrville is going to grow, and we -- we don't have 9 enough places for people to live, and we don't have 10 enough places for the people that have jobs to live. 11 And so in terms of precedent, I do not view this as an 12 apartment complex to an apartment complex, apple to 13 apple comparison. It's the mixed use of this and the 14 fact that there's going to being ownership, there's 15 going to be rentals, there's going to be over 55, 16 there's going to be retail and restaurants. It's going 17 to be a complete package. And it's going to be on our 18 river, which is our most precious resource. So what I'm 19 looking at here is responsible development on our most 20 precious resource, and that's something that I'm not 21 going to look at just as another apartment complex out 22 here on the freeway. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one other 24 comment I'd like to make is on the primary job issue. 25 One of the issues on getting primary jobs is there's no 44 1 shopping or not shopping at a level, restaurants at a 2 level, housing at a level, so we can get primary jobs. 3 That's been an issue. So I think -- I mean this is -- 4 yes, primary jobs are great, but we can't get -- it's 5 very difficult to get primary jobs if you don't have a 6 community that supports primary jobs, and we don't have 7 that right now because we don't have the housing and we 8 don't have the restaurants and we don't have the 9 shopping. 10 JUDGE KELLY: And it's the indirect 11 consequence -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 13 JUDGE KELLY: -- of not having resources. 14 MR. SCHULTE: And along that same point, 15 we're going to have construction workers and all our 16 local subcontractors and construction workers employed 17 for the next five or six years. And those are good 18 jobs. Good paying jobs. And it keeps them busy. 19 That's going to add money back into the economy. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, nobody's 21 mentioned the environmental impact. You're going to 22 have a lot of houses there. You're going to have a lot 23 of cars parked there and you're right on the river, 24 which has been stated twice. That's one thing. You 25 also don't have any primary jobs, so I don't see this as 45 1 being the right kind of project for our participation. 2 And what everybody's mentioned without mentioning it is 3 that as soon as those things are built, they're going to 4 be full. Because we don't have enough housing. So 5 you're -- you're going to have your project taken care 6 of and paying for itself. And it was already started 7 before you came to us. So I -- I don't -- I'm all for 8 it. I'm all for the project. I'm not all for the 9 taxpayers helping to fund it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's where I am. 11 JUDGE KELLY: I know we have a couple of 12 people that want to speak on this. Why don't we try to 13 work them in. Let me first of all call Mr. Clayson 14 Lambert. 15 MR. LAMBERT: Yes. Clayson Lambert, 673 16 Town Creek Road, Kerrville. Actually, I'm in the 17 County; not in the City, and proud to be there. 18 JUDGE KELLY: We're proud of it. 19 MR. LAMBERT: First of all, I want to say 20 that I applaud the insight and the concept of this 21 development. I think it's going to be a tremendous 22 benefit to the community. And, you know, we've ruined 23 one side of our river with car washes and oil change 24 places and I hope to God that the other side of the 25 river is going to go in a totally opposite direction and 46 1 be something as a showcase. 2 Having said that, I'm here today not to 3 speak about the development, but to speak about tax 4 incentives and abatements and our budget and that sort 5 of thing. And gentlemen, you're all aware of the fact 6 that we don't have a bunch of free cash flow rolling 7 across the desk over here next door. And so I 8 personally consider these rebates and abatements to be a 9 silver bullet that you have at your disposal. And those 10 silver bullets are loaded with taxpayer dollars. And 11 they're expensive. If they're used very, very wisely 12 they can create a lot more coming back than what you 13 gave up to put them in place. But if they're not used 14 wisely, the opposite will occur. 15 Developments like this -- I left Kerrville 16 in 2006 and lived for four years in Huntsville, Alabama, 17 which is one of the fastest growing communities in the 18 United States. Marshall Space Flight Center is up 19 there. The government has countless offices. Rayon, 20 Boeing, it's a high-tech mecca and people are pouring in 21 there at an incredible rate. And developers are coming 22 in from cities and states that have lesser opportunities 23 and they all have their hands out. Give us a rebate on 24 this. Give us some extra on that. 25 But the fact is, in most cases demand is 47 1 there to make those projects self-sufficient, have a 2 good ROI. But since the policies exist to give away 3 that money and to provide those incentives, I guess 4 you'd be a fool if you didn't ask for it. So I can't, 5 you know, discount anyone for doing that. 6 We've heard a lot about affordable housing 7 in Kerrville and it is a big issue. And it is something 8 that needs to be addressed instead of giving a lot of 9 lip service to. We have a new company in town, Steel 10 Frame Solutions, that I am told can build something with 11 cost and not unlike stick frame building, and the 12 recipients of that end up with a 15 percent discount on 13 their insurance, which is helpful for affordable 14 housing, and it goes together quicker, and there's fewer 15 mistakes in it. So there's a number of things out there 16 that we could look into and ways to incentivize that. 17 Now, the prices that I hear for the 18 apartments that are going to be on this Landing area are 19 certainly not in line with the number of jobs that we 20 have that pay that much. And if and when the hospital 21 starts putting their revisions on there and all of these 22 new people come in here, there's going to be a demand 23 for it and it's going to be fine. And if the demand is 24 there, the builders will satisfy that demand. If the 25 demand is not there, and you incentivize it and get it 48 1 built quicker, you're going to have an empty part of the 2 City. So what have you done? But I think this all kind 3 of boils down to the fact that this project is on target 4 and it's going forward. And it's going forward without 5 you giving away these type of incentives that could be 6 used for more important projects down the road. And, of 7 course, we're all interested, we don't want to see our 8 taxes go up. And we don't want to see our money not 9 under the wise stewardship of you folks. So I don't see 10 making this project quicker does anything for the 11 community. Demand will do that. 12 Commissioner Letz, you said primary jobs. 13 What you need for that is housing, restaurants, work 14 forces, this, that and the other. You know what you 15 need? You need a work force. And we don't produce a 16 work force in here like that. For the most part. 17 So I don't see this as being a benefit and I 18 think this is a bad time in the budgeting cycle and 19 where we are right now to be giving this away. I know 20 I'm putting -- probably putting a target on my back, but 21 the fact is if this project's going to move forward 22 without this, if it doesn't -- if the ROI on this is so 23 thin you have to provide these incentives to make it 24 work, I would question that to begin with, but evidently 25 that's not the case. This project isn't going to come 49 1 to a screaming halt and shutdown if you don't provide 2 this. Therefore, if you provide it, you're giving away 3 something that perhaps you should hold onto, that silver 4 bullet, for a better thing down the road. Something 5 that we truly, truly need. 6 You know, I -- I have gone with a friend not 7 long ago and priced apartments over in River Hills on 8 both sides of 173. Those are comparatively priced to 9 this and those are the high end units in Kerrville. So 10 I don't see this touching on affordable. Housing does 11 not draw people into a community. There's not people in 12 Houston and Rosenburg sitting there going, Oh, honey, 13 look at this beautiful opportunity for apartment housing 14 in Kerrville. Let's up and move. It's all based on 15 demand. So this is not going to necessarily draw other 16 people in the community. The expansion of a hospital 17 will. New companies coming in will. I don't see this 18 doing that. And once the commercial part of it goes 19 into place, it'll be an nice draw for tourists and that 20 sort of thing. It will be a nice draw for people around 21 here. There may be some people that currently live 22 somewhere in Kerrville that want to sell that property 23 and -- and move over there. But I do not see this as 24 being in the best interest of stewardship tax money, to 25 give out these incentives unnecessarily on the project. 50 1 Thank you very much. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Lambert. 3 MR. SCHULTE: Judge, may I respond briefly? 4 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 5 MR. SCHULTE: Okay. I -- I have to disagree 6 with Mr. Lambert. Houses -- housing does bring people 7 in. Companies are not going to move here if there's no 8 place for their employees to live. Now, I'm -- I feel 9 like I'm being penalized for the timing of this 10 application. And that's a little unfair, because I 11 contacted Commissioner Belew probably a year ago about 12 this. And at the time we were having issues with our 13 neighbors and access, and dealing with that. And he 14 said, I will support you, I'll support this project but 15 you've got to make your neighbors happy. So we've been 16 negotiating -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, Steve, let me stop 18 you there. I support the project. I didn't -- 19 MR. SCHULTE: I'm not -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- I didn't commit any 21 kind of a vote to help you on anything. 22 MR. SCHULTE: No, and I'm not -- I don't 23 mean to imply that you did. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I want people to 25 understand that. And I sat through the concept meeting 51 1 with you too. 2 MR. SCHULTE: And I -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And I'm all for it. 4 And I said a moment ago I'm all for it. 5 MR. SCHULTE: And I'm not trying to imply 6 that you're not. I just want to talk about the timing 7 of this. So we have been negotiating with our neighbor 8 for well -- neighbors well over a year, and I told 9 Commissioner Belew that I wouldn't come back to this 10 Court until we had negotiated and tried to make them 11 happy. Well, it's been a monumental effort. I think 12 they're happy. Not for sure. But that's why we waited 13 to come to the County because -- at -- at his request. 14 So I don't feel like the Court should penalize us for 15 the timing of this application. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Baroody, I believe you 17 have a request to speak to the Court? 18 MR. BAROODY: Yeah. And I brought party 19 favors. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just hand them to us 21 and we'll pass them out. 22 MR. BAROODY: Oh, okay. Yeah. 23 MR. SCHULTE: Can I have one? 24 MR. BAROODY: I think there's an extra one. 25 I think there's -- 52 1 JUDGE KELLY: Here you go, Mr. Schulte. 2 MR. BAROODY: Okay. George Baroody, 1616 3 Glen Road. So I -- kind of like Commissioner Belew 4 said, I have no problem with the project. And contrary 5 to what was said last meeting, I couldn't care less who 6 the developer is. The issue here ends up being about 7 whether an incentive is truly an incentive or not. The 8 first four pages of what I handed you is apparently a 9 policy that you never did adopt, according to what y'all 10 said earlier, but it's basically Chapter 381, Economic 11 Development Policy that was drafted in 2014. While you 12 may not have adopted it, you have been following it, 13 whether you realize it or not. 14 And I draw your attention to really Page 2 15 of that. So there's four pages on that. And it just 16 says in part B: A project is not eligible for 17 incentives under this program if a building permit has 18 been issued for the project prior to making -- okay. 19 No building permits have been issued as far as I'm 20 aware. But the project has begun. This is just 21 something is an intent of the policy. 22 But then in C, it says public benefit or 23 amount of revenue realized by Kerr County and 24 attributable to a project must be commensurate with the 25 value of any incentive granted under this program. So 53 1 we'll kind of come back to that in a little bit. Just 2 to make the bottom line, the incentive needs to match 3 what you're getting. You know, return on investment 4 type of thing. 5 And you all are allowed to consider other 6 incentive programs for which the applicant might have 7 received for this project. And we'll come to that in 8 the latter pages there. But then the next page is the 9 part that, while you haven't adopted it you have been 10 following it, which says that the applications would go 11 through KEDC. Which, in fact, in 2017 KEDC did see this 12 application from the EIC and -- well, the initial 13 application was made to them in 2017 September. In 14 fact, KEDC produced an economic impact study based on 15 this project at that time. And it says, If KEDC 16 determines that an applicant has met the program 17 requirements, the executive director will prepare a 18 presentation for the Court. Which, in fact, they did 19 for the Bending Branch, James Avery, and Fox Tank. All 20 three of those had a presentation made by the KEDC 21 director at the time. And contrary to what Mr. Schulte 22 says, the KEDC has had a director. They've been in flux 23 for a little while, but they've had a director that -- 24 this whole time. 25 So the next grouping of papers is actually 54 1 the draft agreement between the City of Kerrville and 2 the developer that was actually voted on and adopted. 3 It says draft because this is from the agenda of 4 December 11, 2018. This is the agreement that was 5 passed by Council in December of '18. 6 And I would point you to page 2 and 3, which 7 is the definitions of this agreement. And on page 3 of 8 that, you see a couple of them. Completion of 9 Construction, means the date that certificates of 10 occupancy for all buildings and other improvements 11 comprising the Development, capital D, have been issued 12 by the City. And then you notice what the definition of 13 Development is. I mean, it's collectively the land, the 14 improvements -- and in this document improvements 15 references the water utilities, the upsizing of the 16 water utilities. So it's the land, the improvements, 17 the dwelling units, and mixed use development. 18 And so that's the definition of Development 19 in the agreement that council signed, there's -- or that 20 council agreed to. So it's the complete 60 acre 21 development. It's not the apartments, it's not just the 22 utilities, it's the entire thing. 23 Then move yourself I think it's page 7 of 24 that, if you just keep going it's Article 4 of that 25 agreement. And it points out, Under the conditions to 55 1 the economic development grant. If the conditions that 2 must be maintained or achieved by the developer to 3 warrant the holding onto the agreement, and you'll 4 notice in 4.4. Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell 5 you this was the intent, but this is the words of the 6 document. It says commencement and completion of 7 construction. Subject to events of force -- and I can't 8 say the word -- majeure, okay, commencement of 9 construction on the development shall commence not later 10 than April 1st, 2020. The project has begun. So not a 11 problem. 12 Subject -- the next sentence is important. 13 Subject to events of force majeure, completion of 14 construction of the Development, capital D, shall occur 15 not later than April 1st, 2023. So what you have there 16 is a commitment to build the entire Development. 17 Utilities, dwelling, mixed use development, all of it, 18 by a certain date. Without any incentive coming from 19 you. The incentive has already been made. The 20 commitment has already been made. So to put more money 21 into it as an incentive is truly just a gift. What do 22 you get above and beyond this development by giving 23 money? Keeping in mind, the development is the land, 24 the improvements, the dwelling units, and the mixed use 25 development. So what are you getting -- and I say you, 56 1 it's truly us. The community has already paid for this 2 development with incentives, what do we gain by giving 3 this? So it's no longer truly an economic development 4 grant. It's just a gift. And the Texas Constitution, 5 Article 352 A, says you can't give away resources 6 without a return coming back. And so I question that. 7 Now, one last thing about affordable 8 housing. It isn't a defined term in this community, but 9 workforce housing has been accepted to be -- housing 10 that's affordable for someone who makes in their 11 household between 80 and 120 percent of the median 12 household income. In Kerrville, the City of Kerrville 13 right now, that median household income is about 41,000. 14 That's what's being reported by the City. I think in 15 the County it's somewhere in the 46, 47,000. 16 The City of Kerrville, workforce housing 17 would be rent between 800 and $1100 a month. These 18 apartments have been advertised as being comparable to a 19 facility in Fredericksburg that goes for 1280 to 1600 a 20 month. Now, I don't know about you, but the work force 21 in this town can't afford 1280 to 1600. They're great 22 apartments, I'm sure, and they're affordable for 23 somebody, but they aren't fitting a need. So again, 24 what are we getting for this incentive or this gift that 25 you're giving and I would ask you to consider that. 57 1 Thank you. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Any further 3 discussion? 4 MR. SCHULTE: Very briefly. So Mr. Baroody 5 is talking about policy that we didn't comply for but 6 the policy's never been enacted. We did go through EIC. 7 We got an EIC grant from them. And that is related to 8 specific construction going on in Thompson Drive now. 9 We're spending $1.8 million to bring wastewater and 10 water service to that property. The wastewater has to 11 come down from the Francis Lemos Bridge. The water's 12 coming from the water plant. We're spending 1.8 million 13 on that. We received an EIC grant for that for 14 $850,000. That's the agreement Mr. Baroody referred to. 15 We put a million of our own money into that. And so 16 that's what that is about. 17 We also have a 380 agreement with the City, 18 because the City asked us to oversize the -- the lines 19 so that other people may use the line. And the 20 oversizing was going to cost another $350,000, I 21 believe, and so we have a 380 agreement that that will 22 be rebated under the terms of that agreement. 23 So I -- just to clarify that, all of those 24 areas we just went to, just being the wastewater and the 25 water service, none of the project, none of -- it 58 1 doesn't go to anything on-site. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One question. Did the 3 City provide any type of rebate other than for what you 4 just said? 5 MR. SCHULTE: Well, we had -- we received an 6 EIC grant. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, I understand that. 8 I said a rebate. 9 MR. SCHULTE: And then we have a 380 10 agreement, which is the City version of the 381. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Okay. But not a 12 rebate per -- 13 MR. SCHULTE: It's a rebate. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. But you 15 -- not a rebate for ad valorem taxes? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. The 380 is. 17 MR. SCHULTE: Yes. The 380 -- it's a 18 portion of -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that was for the 20 increase size of the line? 21 MR. SCHULTE: Correct. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Gotcha. 23 MR. SCHULTE: Okay. 24 MR. BAROODY: Well, and I -- I need to 25 clarify. The agreement that I gave -- 59 1 JUDGE KELLY: No, no, no, no. 2 MR. BAROODY: Well, you have the agreement 3 in front of you. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We do. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you. 6 JUDGE KELLY: I want to make sure everybody 7 has an opportunity. Anyone else wants to speak about 8 this, this is your opportunity. Anything further, 9 Steve? 10 MR. SCHULTE: No. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Commissioners? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make one 13 comment and this, I think, is what Mr. Baroody says. 14 There is a date in the City agreement. I'm just 15 glancing at it but he highlighted that it has to be 16 completed by the 23rd -- or 2023. And that would be all 17 the more reason to give an incentive in my mind because 18 they need to get it done in a hurry. And I think it -- 19 you know, or they lose it. It's not like they've got 20 that and -- I mean so, to me, it's not a done deal from 21 the standpoint of that agreement. It's got a condition 22 in it. It's got -- all the construction has to be 23 completed in three years. So, to me, it is an incentive 24 to get it done. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The deadline? 60 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. For sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they -- or they lose 4 it. I mean if they don't get it done, they lose that -- 5 you know, they lose whatever's in the City agreement it 6 appears on my quick glance of it. I have not read 7 through the entire agreement. And I -- you know, I 8 think my comments are pretty clear. I think the housing 9 portion of it is critical, I think the development is 10 good, and I think that it does warrant an incentive. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree with 12 Commissioner Letz, except for the last sentence. I feel 13 as stewards of the taxpayers' money -- I love the 14 project. I think it's great. I think it's fantastic. 15 I'm sure I'll visit it once the retail gets in there and 16 everything. And I hope we get more like that. But 17 right now, I can't cut loose on it. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think the project is 19 fantastic. Okay. No question about it. I think it's 20 going to go. I think that everything here that's been 21 said today is -- I appreciate very, very much, but I 22 don't see the need in taxpayer funds going to 23 incentivize or subsidize the project. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Going back to what 25 Mr. Schulte said earlier, from the first time we met, I 61 1 told him I thought it was a good project. Good idea. 2 And I did go and talk to the citizens over there who 3 were going to be affected and tried to find out what 4 their concerns were and so on. Sat with you and Justin 5 at the concept meetings and all that. I am in support. 6 And like I said before, I'm in support, I'm just not in 7 support of the taxpayers having to participation. And I 8 wish you well with the project but I can't vote for it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, based on the 10 comments I doubt it will -- it's going to go anywhere 11 but I'll make a motion to approve the 381 agreement with 12 the -- as presented today with the 80 percent rebate on 13 the taxes for five years. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And I'll second that motion. 15 Okay. We have a motion made by Commissioner Letz, which 16 I seconded, to approve the requested 80 percent 381 17 Economic Development Agreement with Thompson Drive 18 Partners, L.L.C. Any other discussion? Okay. 19 What I would like to say is Lord knows 20 everybody -- I think everybody knows how I feel about 21 budget deficits. And the timing may be poor for your 22 request, I understand, and I'm certainly mindful of what 23 the limited revenue sources are for the County and the 24 burgeoning expenses of the County. But I think what 25 we're doing here is almost cutting off our nose to spite 62 1 our face. I prefer to be the visionary that sees that 2 this is the future. We can deny it or we can help it. 3 I approved the request from the Airport Board in the 4 budget, which total $575,000, because I believe it will 5 bring economic growth and security to this community. 6 I believe it is the future. The Airport Board is one of 7 our gems, not very well known gem. We listened to that 8 with our joint meeting with the City earlier. 9 I think we can all do the math here, counted 10 the votes, but just as a voice in the dark, I believe 11 that this is the future of Kerrville. And if we don't 12 help it, who knows what's going to happen. One of the 13 things I learned on the campaign trail. I sat for two 14 years in those blue seats out there with y'all, watching 15 County government work. One of my concerns about 16 economic development is that the forgotten business 17 people in economic development in this community, in my 18 opinion, are our local business people. We have 19 incentives to bring people into the community. Come 20 into the community. Bring your money. And maybe they 21 come, maybe they don't. Maybe there's sufficient 22 housing, maybe there's sufficient workforce. So far, as 23 hard as we're working on it, we do have some good 24 prospects and I appreciate all the good work that we're 25 doing in economic development. But here we have a bird 63 1 in hand, a local businessman, putting his capital at 2 risk, and I believe that this is a good investment for 3 the people of Kerr County in the long term. So with 4 that, I will call for a vote. Those -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make one comment 6 just before because a lot has been said about the 7 budget. And just a comment just so those in the 8 audience are aware and the rest of the members of the 9 court has this sheet. Last five years we've had a 10 budget deficit every year budgeted. Our reserves for 11 the last five years have gone from 29 percent to 12 estimated 34 percent this year. The nature of the way 13 we budget, we almost always -- and I think may change 14 next year from what Judge Kelly said, but we budget a 15 deficit because we under budget anticipated revenue and 16 we over budget expenditures. That creates a deficit. 17 It's not a -- it's a going in deficit to be conservative 18 from our standpoint and there's a big item on salaries 19 that I think there's a different way we could budget 20 that would be more accurate. So it is a budget deficit. 21 Like I said, we've had it for the last five years. This 22 current year it's $1.8 million deficit and yet we're 23 coming out with a surplus this year. So, you know, it's 24 not really an impact to me directly on this vote, but I 25 hate to -- for people to think we're going in the 64 1 negative direction on an annual basis, we're not. Our 2 reserves are growing. And I think if we end up in the 3 same situation next year, I'd be probably in favor of a 4 tax decrease because I think that we are -- our reserves 5 are at a point that we can start going into our reserves 6 in future years. 7 JUDGE KELLY: And just to build on that, I 8 -- I'm the one that went to our Auditor and asked to see 9 what our budget revenues and expenditures were for the 10 last seven years. And that's why this -- this schedule 11 was generated. Because I wanted to see it. 12 And this past year -- and I know a lot of 13 people heard me complain about last year's budget was a 14 $1.8 million deficit budget and it scared the pants off 15 of me. That's a big budget deficit. And it turns out 16 that we pretty substantially underestimated our revenues 17 last year. And because of that, and because we didn't 18 spend all the money that we budgeted on expenses, that 19 we actually had a surplus this year. And y'all can't 20 see the schedule, but when you see the little red thing 21 on there that means that we'll actually brought in more 22 money than our deficit budget was. 23 And that's -- we're going to talk about the 24 budget process later. But this is something that I 25 wanted to know going into these discussions. And what I 65 1 can tell you is that even though the budgets -- and I 2 don't want to put the cart before the horse because I 3 know we're not on the budget item on the agenda and the 4 County Attorney will stop me if I stray from the subject 5 matter of this agenda item, but this is a conservative 6 County. And when it comes to the budget process, what 7 I've noticed is that our elected officials and our 8 department heads tend to consider every possible 9 contingency in putting together their budget. And so 10 they come to us kind of arm to the teeth for any bad 11 thing that can happen to us and we have a tendency to 12 over budget. And I don't say that that's a bad thing 13 necessarily, it's a conservative thing and it's probably 14 prudent. 15 When it comes to the revenue side of it, we 16 tend to be also very conservative. And that means that 17 we under-project revenues. And so what you're going to 18 look at later is a budget that has over-projected 19 expenses, under-projected revenues for a deficit and I'm 20 going to howl about it because it just goes against my 21 nature. I don't think anybody can run a household or a 22 business on a deficit budget. I don't think you can do 23 that, can you, Mr. MacDonald? 24 MR. MACDONALD: No, Sir. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And I say that, because there 66 1 has been a lot talked about the budget and what we can 2 do here. I think that what we did for the Airport Board 3 in this budget, which I'm complaining about, but not 4 about the Airport Board funding in that budget, is an 5 investment in our future. I think what we're talking 6 about here today, likewise, is an investment in our 7 future. And we can take the advantage of that and try 8 to steer this growth or we can just leave it up to the 9 businessmen on their own to do what they want to do. 10 But I certainly do not want to disadvantage the local 11 people in this community that are willing to put their 12 capital at risk to improve the community for everyone. 13 And so for that reason, I do intend to vote for this. 14 But I'll call the vote. Those in favor of 15 the motion raise your hand. Those opposed raise your 16 hand. Motion is defeated, three to two. 17 And Mr. Lambert, Mr. Baroody, thank you for 18 your time. 19 MR. LAMBERT: Thank you. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Let's take a break. We've 21 gone past it. Let's take about a ten-minute break. Be 22 back here at 10:25. 23 (Break.) 24 JUDGE KELLY: Come back to order. 25 There's some new faces in the audience. 67 1 That's always good. It's been an interesting morning. 2 We've gotten four items done out of 34. 34 items on the 3 agenda, so I apologize. 4 We're moving tediously but we're moving 5 thoroughly with full transparency. So whether you like 6 our decisions or not, we're here to listen to you and 7 we're here to try to do the peoples' business as best as 8 we can. 9 And so it's going to be kind of tedious 10 before we can get to the budget. I know a lot of people 11 here want to talk about that and we're going to keep 12 proceeding in order. So you can look down there. And I 13 know if you had a 9:30 or 9:45, you think surely he's 14 going to take me out of order today. I'm not. And the 15 reason for that is that we have certain things that have 16 to be done before we can get the budget items at 1:13, 17 14 and 15. So we're just going to stay on track. No 18 mistakes will be made. 19 With that I'm going to call Item 1.5 20 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to approve 21 the Interlocal Agreement between Kerr County and Nueces 22 County for jail services. Sheriff. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just an 24 agreement Nueces County would like to enter into with us 25 to house some of their overflow. They're having serious 68 1 overcrowding issues down there. And as long as we have 2 bed space after the addition, I think it would be worthy 3 for us to do that to a point. Just to give you an idea, 4 right now we're housing as of this morning 45 from other 5 counties. That's at a revenue of right at 70,000 per 6 month. Okay. 7 So we're getting close. We're over 200 8 inmates. We do have the staff to handle it. But we're 9 getting close to the maximum. So I don't know how many 10 we would be able to house for Nueces, and they know that 11 but, you know, it would be worthwhile to have that 12 contract in place. The contract has been looked at and 13 gone over. The reason I brought this one is there were 14 a couple little bitty things that they wanted changed in 15 it compared to our other ones. That all went through 16 the County Attorney and myself and Nueces County 17 Attorney and everything's been looked at and approved by 18 our County Attorney and I would encourage you to approve 19 the contract. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Same rate? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same rate, $50.00 a 22 day. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Keep the lights on and 24 good work. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Keep the lights on. 69 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 4 Commissioner Belew and seconded by Commissioner Harris 5 to approve the Interlocal Agreement with Nueces County. 6 But before I call a vote, I do want to send a shout out 7 to the Sheriff. We talked earlier before the break 8 about our conservative nature in over-budgeting, our 9 conservative nature in under-projecting income. Well, 10 this is living proof that we under-projected the income. 11 We built a 328 bed jail planning for the future. It was 12 expensive, it was inconvenient, and the Sheriff's Office 13 handled it with great poise and dignity. And we made 14 that transition. We projected $250,000 worth of income 15 from inmate housing in our budget last year. Just for 16 the fiscal year. And so that everyone knows, that 17 income has been about three times that. About 750,000. 18 So when we say that we had more income than we 19 anticipated this year, it's principally because of the 20 Sheriff's Office and the jail. And we appreciate all of 21 your efforts. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I appreciate 23 that. There is a little bit more to it than just that, 24 because what you really have to look at is we had added 25 that addition to the jail because we were already at 70 1 maximum capacity with our own. And we were getting 2 overcrowded and looking at having to house out-of-county 3 ourselves and pay for that. And thank goodness, not 4 only did this Court approve the addition, which did take 5 a while and I got a few more gray hairs with it, I 6 guess, but we did get through it. But other thing is, 7 is every one of our local courts, both district courts 8 and our County Courts also stepped up and have really 9 been kind of operating in overdrive you might say in 10 trying to move cases and move inmates through that, 11 which has lowered or in-house -- our local inmates, and 12 actually opened up more beds to be able to house some 13 from other counties where they pay for it all. So 14 it's -- it's been kind of a joint deal of every part of 15 the County. It helps. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And just to emphasize 17 it, the bond election was approved by the voters to 18 build that because it was needed. It turns out to be 19 even a better asset than we thought. So good deal. 20 Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, a quick 22 question before we vote. We're housing more than we 23 really anticipated. Are there a lot of jails being 24 built, or is there just a big shortage statewide? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is a big shortage 71 1 statewide right now. And there are more and more jails 2 trying to be built. But getting a bond issue passed 3 through voters in these times for housing inmates is not 4 the easiest thing in the world to get passed, and a lot 5 of times the voting public does not approve that type -- 6 nobody wants to look at jails. They want to look at 7 Granger McDonald's projects. You know, they want to 8 look at things like that and not -- not so much jails. 9 So it is harder, but I know Nueces County is really 10 hurting. You know, we've got some serious issues. A 11 drug epidemic, I would call it. Especially 12 methamphetamines is extremely serious, and is causing us 13 some serious problems. And to be honest, which I hate, 14 is these jails have become your mental hospitals. 15 Because the State has failed drastically and miserably 16 on taking care of our mental health issues. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Amen. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: And I would like to echo -- 20 but go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can expect it to 22 continue for the next several years anyway probably? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I expect that we're 24 going to be able to house some for the next -- you know, 25 our -- our in-house and when we built the addition what 72 1 we looked at and figured in was a 20-year payout on the 2 bond and that it would take us about 20 years before 3 Kerr County's inmates would totally fill it and have to 4 add on. Just like we did with the jail at the time. 5 When we built the jail in '95 -- '94, '95, we expected 6 it 20 years. It lasted about 23 before we had to -- or 7 22 before we actually had to go out and that was what 8 the projection was. The same thing with this one. 9 So we're going to be going down gradually on 10 out-of-county housing. But right now with it being new 11 and with our Courts doing everything they're doing and 12 moving inmates, it is helping us keep those numbers up. 13 So they can bring in more of that income. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And I can speak from personal 15 experience, having visited with the County Judge in 16 Medina County. They went to the voters on a bond issue 17 for a larger jail, and it failed. They came back to the 18 voters with a much smaller bond issue, as Commissioner 19 Harris knows, in order to get it to pass. And so they 20 wilfully and intentionally built a jail that was too 21 small for their needs because that's all they could 22 anticipate the voters would approve. And so he writes 23 us a check for anywhere from 30 to $40,000 a month and I 24 send him a personal thank you. But they're going to 25 keep doing that because -- and Boerne did the same 73 1 thing. Kendall County did the same -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Kendall County built -- 3 just built their jail, opened it, and we're still 4 housing 10 to 15 of their inmates because they built it 5 too small. And that's right when it opened it was too 6 small. And Medina is adding 96 beds to theirs. And 7 we're housing 40 of them sometimes. It's not going -- 8 it'll be too small when it opens. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And I commend the 10 Commissioners that were on the court at the time and the 11 Sheriff's Office to be able to see into the future and 12 do something that has turned out to be something very 13 helpful for the County and at least -- at the very 14 least, we're going to be able to meet our needs. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now my jail employees 16 may differ with all of us. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I wasn't up here 18 but I remember. Hats off to the Sheriff for getting 19 that bond pushed through. I mean, he did his homework, 20 and anybody that would listen he'd talk to. 21 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I probably saw the 23 need. Thank you. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We've got a motion and 25 a second before the Court to accept the Interlocal 74 1 Agreement with Nueces County. Those in favor raise your 2 hand. Five zero, unanimous. 3 1.6 consider, discuss and take appropriate 4 action for the Sheriff to publish an RFP and bid pages 5 to the jail and commissary as required by Local 6 Government Code. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As you know, Sheriffs 8 have sole control over commissary accounts. That's what 9 we actually have that we sell things to inmates that we 10 don't supply. Whether it be cookies or candies or -- 11 or, you know, extra shampoo or whatever that -- that we 12 don't actually supply it anymore than what we do, we 13 sell that through a commissary. We contract that out. 14 We make a certain portion off of it and the commissary 15 companies make a certain portion off of it. The Local 16 Government Code says that I shall bid that once every 17 five years. And November is that time, so I want to get 18 on top of it before our current contract expires in 19 November, and go ahead and just have permission to -- to 20 put out, it's a very short, simple RFP, just a half 21 page. It's not even attached to y'all's. I'll get it 22 through the County Attorney just to make sure all the 23 I's are dotted and T's are crossed. But it's a simple 24 form saying I'll pick a commissary company to come in 25 and do it. The one we have has done real well. I think 75 1 our account right now is -- I think you're sitting in 2 here, James, what, about $250,000 that we have in that 3 account to spend back on inmates. Commissary profits 4 have to be spent back on the inmates. Maybe some of the 5 linens and bedding and things like that or educational 6 or -- or stuff that we do. But that's the way it's 7 required by law. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Would that include 9 stuff like the -- the conference rooms and the -- being 10 able to Skype with mental health, or is that another 11 category? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's another 13 category. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The educational, we're 16 -- we're doing some of that. It can't -- the Courts do 17 that. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It has -- it has a 19 little -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a real gray law. 21 They say that it takes -- the Sheriff has full 22 authority. I have to notify the Court what I'm going to 23 spend it on. It does get audited by our local Auditor's 24 office every year. Okay. They give some very specific 25 things that you can and cannot spend it on. But then 76 1 after that, it's kind of up to the Sheriff. And the 2 objection comes where if somebody objected to what I 3 spent it on, then that could be a valid objection. 4 That's the way the Court's ruling. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sheriff, let me -- let 6 me ask you something. Just reading the agenda item. It 7 says, Action for the Sheriff to publish a RFP and bid 8 pages to the jail and commissary as required by Local 9 Government Code. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But really what it is 12 is an RFP for commissary services, right? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And -- yeah. It kind 14 of -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Because that -- because 16 it doesn't say what it's for. So it's for commissary -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's for commissary 18 services. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So I -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I think the 21 Local Government Code is worded in there and that does 22 cover that chapter. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: With that -- with that, 24 I would move -- or I make a motion to approve -- 25 authorize the Sheriff to issue an RFP and bid pages for 77 1 commissary services. Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In accordance with the 3 Local Government Code. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, in accordance 5 with Local Government Code 451.0415. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. Okay. Go 9 ahead. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Been a motion made by 11 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 12 approve letting the RFP for commissary services at the 13 jail. Any other discussion? Those in favor raise your 14 hand. Unanimous, five zero. Thank you, Sheriff. 15 Next item on the agenda is to consider, 16 discuss and take appropriate action to approve the 17 engagement letter by Armstrong, Vaughan & Associates, 18 P.C. for the audit of the financial statements and 19 single audit for the period ending September 30, 2019. 20 MR. ROBLES: Yes. I've provided each of you 21 a copy of the engagement letter from Armstrong, Vaughan 22 & Associates. I believe this is the fourth year we'll 23 be using them. The price for their services, they 24 estimated to be $51,500 for the audio and approximately 25 $2,800 for travel expenses. 78 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's basically the 2 same engagement form from prior? 3 MR. ROBLES: Very -- very similar. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then I make a motion 5 that we approve the engagement letter with Armstrong, 6 Vaughan & Associates for a financial audit for the 7 period ending September 30, 2019. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Motion has been made by 10 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris, to 11 approve the engagement letter by Armstrong, Vaughan & 12 Associates for the year end -- fiscal year 2019, 13 financial audit. Any other discussion? Those in favor 14 raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 15 And by the way, information at the next 16 regular Commissioners' Court meeting. We will have our 17 new Auditor. She starts October 1. And so her name is 18 Tanya Shelton. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which -- which we'll be 20 meeting, too, because we had no -- no say in that. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. And -- well, and just by 22 way of local governance -- county governance 23 explanation, the audit firm that we just agreed to 24 retain to perform our independent audit is a process 25 that we have an independent county firm come in and 79 1 audit the County financials. That way we know that 2 everything's being done the way it's supposed to be 3 done. The Auditor's Office, many people don't 4 understand this, but it is not hired by the County. The 5 Commissioners' Court does not hire the Auditor. The 6 Auditor is hired by the District Judges upstairs. And 7 that -- the Auditor's Office is a second check and 8 balance that we have on County finances, because they 9 oversee the budget -- the entire budget process and the 10 administration of the budget throughout the year. And 11 James has done a great job in filling in for us this 12 past year. We've been without an Auditor for the better 13 part of -- well, all of this year to date so far. So 14 we're looking forward to having our Auditor's Office 15 being fully staffed. 16 So with that, the next item on the agenda is 17 1.8 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 18 extend the contract with all Kerr County Volunteer Fire 19 Departments through December 1(sic), 2019. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. We've -- 21 as we've discussed in Court and everywhere else, we've 22 run into snags with workman's comp for our Volunteer 23 Fire Department. And rather than having them sign a new 24 contract that we normally do in October, we decided 25 to -- or I think it would be a good idea to just extend 80 1 their current contracts through the end of the year 2 until we get all that worked out. 3 Now, a sidebar to that, in fact I think 4 Commissioner Belew and I discussed it a little bit this 5 morning, we found out that we are getting some things 6 coming in that look encouraging on our workman's comp. 7 I talked to Fire Chief Ray Lynch over the weekend, and 8 he found out through a source that they can get theirs 9 done for 5,000 a year, which sound good. And I believe 10 you had -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Turtle Creek said they 12 could get it for about 1400 a year. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. And that's 14 going to depend on the number and the department, I'm 15 sure, and everything else. But we're going to get a lot 16 of things on the table to where we'd make some good 17 decisions or each department is making a good decision 18 and finding the lowest rate they can -- that we can get 19 for them. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, I -- I have a 21 question. The letter that TAC sent us -- and I might 22 have it in my phone here -- but seemed to indicate that 23 these guys -- we never really were legal to provide or 24 take care of workman's comp for them anyway, for the 25 Volunteer Fire Departments, because they're distinctly 81 1 individual 501c3's and they're not government -- what's 2 the word for that? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not volunteers. 4 JUDGE KELLY: It's political subdivision. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Political subdivision. 6 So we really can't provide that. We can reimburse them 7 at the end of the year, like all other reimbursements, 8 which is -- was my suggestion to them. So if they can 9 all do that, they come in -- now, this has a price tag 10 attached, right? 11 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This thing we're 13 talking about now. It's pretty high? 14 JUDGE KELLY: $42,000. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: $42,000 -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: It stinks. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- which we're being 18 gouged. So that's for three months when -- if you do 19 the math -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: No, it's not. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: And I -- let me explain. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- for the year. Even 24 for the year. If they can get it $1400 a month for 20 25 departments then -- or ten, ten departments, you come in 82 1 a lot cheaper than $42,000 a year. 2 JUDGE KELLY: But they agreed to handle all 3 existing claims. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Does anybody have a 5 claim? 6 COMMISSIONER LETS: Oh yeah. We have 7 claims. 8 JUDGE KELLY: We have claims. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. See, but the 10 difference between that and -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: They're going back retroactive 12 to -- everything that -- let me just kind of back up so 13 that everybody knows what we're talking about. The 14 County thought we provided worker's compensation for all 15 the Volunteer Fire Departments. That's what we thought. 16 We paid premium to TAC. It was a very low premium, I 17 think, about $2,500 or something, wasn't it? And when I 18 was told that, having done worker's compensation 19 insurance in litigation in years past, I knew that that 20 was incredibly cheap. And I think instinctively I knew 21 something had to be wrong for the worker's compensation 22 insurance to be that cheap. 23 But when we had our workshop back in August 24 and it came out that TAC thought we had 20 volunteer 25 firemen, and we've got more like 220. You know, eleven 83 1 fold more than what they thought. Well, that sent them 2 back to talk to underwriting and talk to legal and what 3 we found out was that even though we thought we had 4 insurance all these years for all of these people, in 5 fact we did not. And a covered loss is defined within 6 the four corners of the insurance policy. And, 7 therefore, any of the claims that had been filed had 8 been paid, they could seek reimbursement what for what 9 had been paid and -- and they could deny the ones that 10 were pending. And so we sat down with them, and -- and 11 Commissioner Letz and I were in Austin and met with 12 Victor Valle and Kelly Flores. And what they did was 13 they said okay, we got you. You know, this is our bad 14 too. It's all of our bad. We thought we had it. We 15 didn't do the -- of course, we don't do underwriting, we 16 just pay for the premium. And so the -- what they 17 proposed to us was that, you know, money covers a 18 multitude of sins. It's a paraphrase from the Bible by 19 the way. But here, the $42,000 premium they would 20 charge us would guarantee us everything through the end 21 of this year, i.e., purpose of the extension to go to 22 December 31, and all pending claims, and any past 23 claims, so that we have covered a multitude of mutual 24 mistakes over the past with this premium. And so I 25 don't -- I don't view that as TAC gouging us, I view 84 1 that as TAC saving our baby. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Because now everybody's 4 covered, no matter what, through the end of the year. 5 And we've got these next three months to find 6 alternative sourcing for worker's compensation insurance 7 for all the Volunteer Fire Department. And the legal 8 issue as to political subdivisions is TAC -- you know, 9 to those of y'all that don't know, that's the Texas 10 Association of Counties -- who is, in effect, a County 11 insurance company. And we buy I think nearly all of our 12 insurance through TAC. They can only insure 13 political -- governmental entities and political 14 subdivisions of governmental entities. Now in the 15 volunteer fire department world, what that means is that 16 a 501 C 3 non-profit Volunteer Fire Department cannot be 17 insured by TAC. But an emergency service district 18 Volunteer Fire Department can be insured by TAC, because 19 the ESD is a political subdivision of the State. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: A taxing entity. 21 JUDGE KELLY: A taxing entity. And so the 22 distinction they came back to us was they can quote and 23 provide worker's compensation insurance on the EDS's, 24 and that's Ingram and Mountain Home, but they can't on 25 the other non-profit 501 C 3's. So what we've got here, 85 1 we're learning a lot about Volunteer Fire Department 2 business and hopefully we're all getting better at doing 3 it. But what -- first thing that we had to do was make 4 sure that no volunteer fireman was uninsured protecting 5 the citizens of this county in fire fighting. And we 6 did that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So to tie on to your 8 comment a little bit. As a volunteer issue, people that 9 volunteer for the County are covered under our worker's 10 comp policy. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The issue is the 13 Volunteer Fire Department volunteers are volunteering 14 for the 501 C 3. They're not volunteering for the 15 County. That is where the disconnect came. And to 16 Commissioner Belew's question, insurance companies are 17 with private businesses and governments as well. But 18 you do -- they do an audit both on worker's comp and 19 payroll, any kind of payroll you have. At the end of 20 the year they'll do an audit to see if you told them the 21 truth going in. That's all that -- that's why the 22 42,000 is there. They're adjusting 20 volunteers that 23 we told them going in to 220 that we actually had. 24 They're making an adjustment for ten fold of our 25 volunteers. 86 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it -- it's tied to 2 an actual formula? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, there's an underwriting 6 formula for all of this. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Question on extending 8 the contracts. Do we have the names of all volunteers 9 so -- 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, we've -- we've 11 asked for that. We've got about three or four out of 12 the nine that have sent in rosters to -- updated 13 rosters. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we can make -- the 15 deal is we can approve the contracts provided that we 16 get the names of all their volunteers? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. And some of 19 which we do not have? 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Okay. So to 22 clarify on this $42,000, and that we have our numbers 23 right, and that we have pending cases right now with 24 workman's comp -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: And passed cases. 87 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that are open, past 2 cases, so this will retroactively take us back to 3 January 1st, 2019, for the $42,000 dollars? 4 JUDGE KELLY: It -- it settles us square 5 with TAC, everything through the end of the year. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Up until the end 7 of the year. Up until December 31st. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the 42,000 is not a 9 fixed number. If we -- when we get all our numbers from 10 volunteer fire departments in, if it's 180 volunteers 11 it'll be less than 42,000. If it's 300, it'll be more 12 than 42,000. It will be whatever the actual number of 13 volunteers -- 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Based on that formula. 15 JUDGE KELLY: It's a per capita charge. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. That's why we 17 need to get all those current rosters. And in fact even 18 one of them that we got in, I looked at it and I knew 19 somebody on there wasn't actually a volunteer anymore 20 and so I said, hey, you all need to redo it again. 21 Active. Active ones. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We've got to tell these 23 guys it's got to be right. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that being the case, 88 1 the sooner that the volunteer fire departments can all 2 get their own workman's comp policy and turn in the 3 paperwork, the sooner that we'll know what we're really 4 going to pay by the end of the year for coverage. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, you don't need 6 their -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It will change the -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: The two aren't necessarily 9 tied, but I mean the net effect is we're wrapping up 10 worker's compensation issue with Volunteer Fire 11 Departments with a neat bow. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it would be tied 13 in this sense, that just like what Commissioner Letz 14 just said, if you have 180 versus 300, if you take 15 suddenly, let's say, all the Turtle Creek guys out of 16 it, and they're gone, then that's going to decrease what 17 we owe by the end of the year and the same thing if they 18 fall like dominoes which Mountain Home and Ingram, 19 whatever -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But you probably 21 wouldn't do that until January 1st. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Maybe not. Well, but 23 we are coming up on a quarter here. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Another deal is like 25 Tierra Linda says no, we're out. We're getting -- we've 89 1 already got ours through the grant. So that's the 2 numbers we can take off. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Tierra Linda had three. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the idea is that 5 they would be reimbursed at the end of the year with all 6 the other reimbursements. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's how we compensate 8 the Volunteer Fire Departments, is they bring us 9 recognized reimbursable expenses, and that's how the 10 funding goes to the volunteer fire departments. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We also give them 12 $25,000 a year -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: That's how they get -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- at the beginning of 15 the year. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, that's for 17 reimbursements that he -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: I know -- I know it looks like 19 that in the budget but that's not how it's actually 20 done. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good enough. 22 All right. 23 JUDGE KELLY: This is part of the secret 24 playbook. I learned how this all works. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. So I move that 90 1 we extend the contracts of all our Volunteer Fire 2 Departments through December 31st of this year. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And I'll second that. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Pending a list of all 5 of our -- 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: With the current 7 rosters on all of them. Just for you. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Go ahead and stand up, 9 Wes. 10 MR. GORDON: And so on behalf of Turtle 11 Creek, as of tomorrow we'll be sending a check in for 12 our workman's comp. So we can be taken off that list. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Good. 14 THE REPORTER: What's your name? 15 MR. GORDON: Wesley Gordon, 109 Covey Lane. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's the Chief of the Turtle 17 Creek Volunteer Fire Department. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Now you'll be sending 19 money at -- 20 CHIEF GORDON: We'll be sending in payments 21 for our own policies. 22 JUDGE KELLY: They're buying their own 23 policies. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Buying your own? 25 CHIEF GORDON: Yes. 91 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Good deal. May 2 I ask who through? 3 CHIEF GORDON: VFIS. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. I think 5 that's -- 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what Ray did? 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think so. 8 JUDGE KELLY: We're seeing a lot of VFIS and 9 -- and the Forestry Service. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And the -- and the 11 grant. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Did y'all check into 14 the grant? 15 CHIEF GORDON: We -- we do another type of 16 grant. It's a reimbursement grant. We do a 17 reimbursement grant through some other agencies. That 18 once -- once the policy has been obtained, then we send 19 that money just like we do our County, and we get 20 reimbursed. Not a hundred percent, but I think we end 21 up paying five percent of it. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I know there are other 23 grants available. 24 CHIEF GORDON: Oh, yes there is. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Very good. 92 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got a motion and a 2 second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: All those in favor raise your 4 hand. Five zero, unanimous. Thank y'all for coming. 5 CHIEF GORDON: Thank you. 6 JUDGE KELLY: 1.9 consider, discuss and take 7 appropriate action to approve the General Provisions for 8 FY 2019-2020. These are really the -- Ms. Doss prepared 9 these General Provisions. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've been looked and 11 adjusted and modified and I make a motion to approve 12 them. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They're general 14 administrative provisions, is that what -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: They're budget -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're for calendar -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is there another word 18 that goes in there, though, rather than just General 19 Provisions? 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's what it's called. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what it's called. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Provisions for what? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the budget. 24 JUDGE KELLY: The budget. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So is it general 93 1 budget provisions? It just -- general provisions is -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: General provisions 3 related to the budget. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good deal. 5 JUDGE KELLY: It's general provisions for FY 6 2019-2020. That's the formal name of it. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. For the budget. 8 Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Who made the motion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I did. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioner Letz made the 13 motion. Seconded by Commissioner Harris. Any other 14 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Five zero, 15 unanimous. 16 1.10 consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action to approve the Grade and Step Schedule for fiscal 18 year 2019-2020. Miss Doss. 19 MS. DOSS: I'm curious as to -- do we need 20 to approve 1.11 first? Because the grade step is based 21 on -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let's call both. Let me 23 go ahead and call -- I've already called 1.10, let me 24 call 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action 25 to approve the two percent cost of living adjustment, 94 1 COLA, for FY 2019-2020, because that goes into the step 2 and grade -- grade and step. 3 MS. DOSS: Right. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We're learning. Grade and 5 step? 6 MS. DOSS: Right. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So let's -- why don't 8 you all go ahead and present on both of these and then 9 we'll vote on them one at a time? 10 MR. ROBLES: For items 1.11, this is just 11 something to take a record vote so we have it in the 12 Court's minutes. Something I don't believe we've done 13 in the past. May have been a little difficult to find. 14 But in the proposed budget right now is the two percent 15 cost of living for all employees. The total across all 16 funds, excluding fringe benefits, is $330,446. And that 17 is built into the current grade and step schedule on 18 item 1.10. 19 JUDGE KELLY: So you would want us to act on 20 1.11 before we act on 1.10? 21 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'll move for approval 23 for the cost of living adjustment for FY 2019-2020 of 24 2.0 percent. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I had asked James last 95 1 week, because at one point we -- we looked at several 2 different breakdowns. And we were talking that the 3 actual cost of living inflation was somewhere around 1.6 4 and 1.8. Could we possibly go 1.75 since we're talking 5 about trying to save money and stuff? That would be 6 about $44,000, give or take a little bit. Countywide. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move 2.0. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know but -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, this is discussion. 10 We -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. Then we 12 can discuss it. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Go ahead. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we've got a motion 15 made by Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner 16 Letz, to approve a COLA of two percent. Floor is open 17 for discussion. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. What I just 19 said. Would it be worth, being good stewards, to maybe 20 go actual to the -- every time you go over, it 21 perpetuates each year after that. And I could see -- I 22 don't want to undercut anybody or shortchange anybody 23 countywide but -- and it's not that big a deal for each 24 person. But when you put them all together it is a 25 bunch, it's about $44,000 countywide. 96 1 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But we -- we based that 3 in our many workshops on that discussion, and it was 4 based on the Dallas cost -- 5 MR. ROBLES: It was the South Texas region. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. For consumer 7 price index? Is that what it was? And then that was -- 8 MR. ROBLES: It changes monthly. It does 9 change month to month. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that was from the 11 May mark, right? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. And so -- and 13 that was what, remind me again? It was 2.6 or something 14 like that? 15 MR. ROBLES: It was about 1.7, one point 16 something. Something like that. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So one -- so a 18 little bit less than two point -- 2.0. Right. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's why I said 20 1.75. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And has it dropped? 22 MR. ROBLES: I believe in June it -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think it's dropped. 24 June it went down. Yeah. 25 JUDGE KELLY: In fact, when we first started 97 1 talking about this, first workshop was 1.8, because I 2 was quoting it out of the Wall Street Journal. Then 3 1.6. And I think it's dropped even more. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. In June I know 5 it was at least 1.6. So it's -- that's the last I saw. 6 JUDGE KELLY: But that is very concerning 7 because the inflationary rate is not doing what they 8 need it to do to balance the economy. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And they just shaved 10 off a quarter percent? 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Part of that reason 12 and that's why I brought it up. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Commissioner Harris is 14 -- that's not a bad suggestion. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree. I 16 will say that there -- we're going to probably have to 17 recess and come back tomorrow. Because this and the 18 next one will have to be redone. And that's -- that's 19 fine. I think -- you know, just a general comment, that 20 there are other years that we have gone less than the 21 rate. And I think last year we want less. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Less. Right. 23 JUDGE KELLY: No, last year we went -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You went two and a 25 half. 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Two and a half, and the year 3 before was zero. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I'm in favor of 5 keeping it where it is. I wouldn't have a huge 6 heartburn over here. But I think leave it where it is 7 from the standpoint that some years we haven't given, 8 and we look a lot at where we are budget wise and a lot 9 of -- this year's probably more difficult than other 10 years we've had, and we need to keep it -- keep our 11 employees at a constant level without letting them lose. 12 MS. DOSS: And may I add? Surrounding 13 counties that I've talked with, several of them are 14 giving three. And so to -- to stay competitive, I would 15 recommend two. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And to clarify, if I -- if I 17 might. Clarify. I talked to -- you know, County Judges 18 get together at all these conferences and we all sit 19 around and talk about our problems. This is a very 20 common problem. And one of the things that I've learned 21 is that the adjacent counties really don't even call it 22 a COLA anymore. It's no longer even considered to be a 23 cost of living adjustment. And that's kind of what 24 we're debating is the merits of a cost of living 25 adjustment. They've gone to just flat percentages 99 1 across the board and I think that's what you're 2 referring to Miss Doss. 3 MRS. DOSS: Yes, Sir. 4 JUDGE KELLY: And that is a raise for 5 employees. So the COLA is a consideration of a percent 6 raise across the board for all employees. It's no 7 longer the cost of living adjustment rate. And I think 8 that's probably where we oughta be thinking about going 9 to. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- and while the 11 cost of living is maybe 1.6, wage growth has also gone 12 up nationally. So to keep it constant, I think it's -- 13 I still support the two percent. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I -- and I think 15 we've sent the message to the employees. They know 16 what's in the proposed budget, not the approved budget 17 but -- 18 MR. ROBLES: But I would also like to add, 19 administratively making a change like this at this late 20 of time, it takes a tremendous amount of work to 21 recalculate all of that and -- and put that in the 22 budget. And I don't know if we could recess and get it 23 done today, but if we were going to change it to -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: Well, you have to do all the 25 work, don't you, James? We don't have to do any of it. 100 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: How late were you here 2 last night? 3 JUDGE KELLY: You've got to laugh about 4 this, James, we've been through too much, come on. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I just wanted to throw 6 it out there. That's it. We discussed it, for what 7 it's worth and -- and it's not a big deal. But I know 8 we're going to have some tough decisions down the road. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, from -- and I'll just 10 weigh in. I'm going to go ahead and vote for the two 11 percent simply because I don't view it as a COLA. I 12 really don't. And if we want to -- if we want to rework 13 this budget and get it into the State on time before 14 they shut our doors, we're going to need to adopt 15 something today. And there are a lot of discussions we 16 can have about different ways to cut this budget and 17 this certainly may be a consideration, but we need to 18 have this budget to the State by the end of the month. 19 And if we don't, we may not be in business. The 20 Sheriff's been waiting to say something, I want to make 21 sure and recognize him. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only thing I 23 have to say is kind of what Jonathan led to, is I've 24 been here a lot of years. And I can promise you, 25 there's been a whole lot more years that the employees 101 1 got less than the cost of living, than the actual cost 2 of living than they ever got more. Okay. And I think 3 they to deserve, if you want to call it a raise, and if 4 you're talking COLA, that 1.8, you're talking a point 5 two percent raise to the employees. I don't think 6 that's very much this year. 7 And I'll give you another reason why, in the 8 last month I lost two deputies and I lost them to 9 Kendall County. And it's because their starting salary 10 is more. We beat them on the benefits and that's what 11 we have a hard time explaining to younger people. Okay. 12 They see that starting salary. And that two percent 13 helps a lot, you know. I think we need to do the 14 consulting, the salary thing that you have planned for 15 later in the year to look at it. But I think that the 16 employees definitely deserve more than the two percent, 17 really. But at least the two percent. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we have a lot of 19 good employees in the County, but I can -- I can say 20 I'll vote for an increase for them, but not for me. I 21 can turn it down, and I am. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's not the subject 23 of the agenda item. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'm just telling 25 you that I -- I'll vote for it. But I'm not going to 102 1 take a raise. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Well, this is a discussion 3 that we need to start now for next year. Obviously, I'm 4 sure everybody's expecting my little speech later on 5 about the budget, but we do have things that we're going 6 to have to do, and this is one that I think you called 7 me out on it, Commissioner Belew, about the budget 8 culture. We've gotten this far in the budget culture 9 with this. And it's pretty tough to change this horse 10 midstream. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You're right. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And as much as I know we need 14 to work on these issues, I'm ready to begin working on 15 next year's budget starting tomorrow after we adopt this 16 one. But I do believe it's something that we should do 17 and we need to do it after the enactment of this budget. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Food for thought. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 20 This is on item 1.11. Consider, discuss and take 21 appropriate action to approve the two percent COLA for 22 FY 2019-2020. Those in favor raise your hand. Those 23 opposed. Five zero, unanimous. 24 See, we can disagree agreeable. 25 Let's go back to 1.10. Consider, discuss 103 1 and take appropriate action to approve the Grade and 2 Step Schedule for fiscal year '19 and '20, which now 3 falls into place. 4 MRS. DOSS: Correct. So based on the two 5 percent increase, I ask that you approve the Grade Step 6 Schedule -- proposed Grade Step Schedule for FY '19-'20. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 8 JUDGE KELLY: A motion has been made by 9 Commissioner Belew. Is there a second? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Seconded by Commissioner Letz. 12 Any further discussion? 13 MR. ROBLES: Are we going to change your 14 COLA? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's not on the agenda 17 today. We can't deal with that today. I understand 18 your announcement. Can we deal with that today? 19 MRS. STEBBINS: He can forego it. And I 20 don't know how that's been done in the past but -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Commissioner Reeves did 22 it. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: Uh-huh. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right here while we 25 were voting. 104 1 MR. REEVES: Write a letter. You send a 2 letter to HR. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 4 MR. REEVES: And the -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The policy has to be -- 6 we can't treat it like differently than the rest of the 7 employees, but everyone gets it. If you would choose 8 not to, you can notify HR if you don't want it. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You'll have to send a 11 letter. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'll write it for you. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Commissioner Moser is 14 going to write it for me. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: He's busy. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: He knows what I'm 17 really worth. 18 (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE KELLY: Let's get back to order. Do 20 we have a motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a second. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Belew, Letz? Okay, those in 23 favor raise your hand. Five zero, unanimous. 24 MS. DOSS: Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Call item 1.13 -- 105 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What about 1.12? 2 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, 1.12. 1.12 consider, 3 discuss and take appropriate action on requests from 4 appointed and elected officials to appoint clerks and 5 assistants for their offices pursuant to Local 6 Government Code. 7 This is something that we have to approve 8 every year at every new budget that our department heads 9 and elected officials will officially be able to employ 10 their requested clerks and assistants. So I make a 11 motion that we approve them. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: I made the motion, seconded by 14 Commissioner Harris, to approve the request for the 15 appointed elected officials to appoint clerks and 16 assistants for their offices. Any further discussion? 17 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 18 Okay. Before we start in to the next three, 19 is there -- do we need a break? I just want to make 20 sure. Because I don't know how long these discussions 21 are going to go. 22 Okay. So we'll call 1.13 consider, discuss 23 and take appropriate action regarding any changes to the 24 proposed Kerr County budget. 25 MR. ROBLES: I provided you each a 106 1 spreadsheet like this. These are all the changes from 2 the proposed -- or requested changes from the proposed 3 to be adopted. I do have them built into the adopted 4 budget, but if you choose not to pass any of these let 5 me know. 6 We'll start at the top. We have increases 7 in the general fund for property and vehicle insurance, 8 as well as for the worker's comp down there for the 9 Volunteer Fire Departments was an addition to the 10 non-departmental budget. Right beneath that we have the 11 proposed COLA going into effect. There was a decrease 12 in the independent audit once we received the engagement 13 letter. We have an increase of 5,000 in the transfer 14 out of the general fund to pay for the Kerr portion of 15 the hog bounty. And we have an additional increase in 16 the 6th admin region for the Judicial District expense. 17 And then the estimated deduction from the fourth quarter 18 of the crime victims grant. The net difference in the 19 general fund is an increase of $12,029. For Road and 20 Bridge, we have a decrease of $1,865. This is due to a 21 decrease in the property for vehicle insurance. 22 Courthouse security is allocating the COLA. There was 23 an increase of 1,718. Fund 41, clerk records archival, 24 an increase of five dollars. Indigent health, decrease 25 of 238. And the Juvenile Detention Facility had an 107 1 increase in property insurance of 4100. For all funds, 2 the increase of 15,739. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to do a 4 separate motion to approve all these changes or we 5 just -- when we approve the budget, we approve them? 6 MR. ROBLES: I believe approving the adopted 7 budget but you may want to put some verbiage in there 8 that it had a change from the proposed. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is this -- this isn't 10 considered -- this is not an amendment. This is the -- 11 MR. ROBLES: No. I don't even know if this 12 is really required. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it -- it's a changed 14 proposal. It's not a -- we haven't adopted anything. 15 We have a proposed budget and these are changes to that 16 proposed budget. And we can adopt those or not adopt 17 those. I think -- I agree that I think ultimately if we 18 adopt the budget it's all subsumed in that final budget. 19 But as a matter of course, if you'd like to deal with 20 these separately we certainly can. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 22 we approve the budget with the changes to the proposed 23 budget as outlined today. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'll second that. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, is that required, 108 1 though? That -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: I'm going to wish -- I'm going 3 to wish on that one. Madam attorney? We've got a 4 motion by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner 5 Moser to approve the budget which has not been called on 6 the agenda yet. So I believe that's what, 115? And 7 it's a record vote. 8 MR. ROBLES: Proposed. 9 JUDGE KELLY: We're proposing the proposed 10 amendments to the -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I meant to make 12 -- to amend my motion to be the proposed budget; not the 13 budget. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And I'll second that 15 amendment. 16 JUDGE KELLY: I like that. We got a motion 17 by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Moser, to 18 approve the proposed amendment to the proposed budget. 19 Any further discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 20 Unanimous, five zero. 21 1.14. At this time I'm going to call a 22 public hearing on the proposed Kerr County budget. Is 23 there anyone present that would like to speak on the 24 proposed Kerr County budget? 25 There being no one, then I'll adjourn the 109 1 public hearing and we'll go to item 1.15, which is to 2 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to adopt 3 FY 2019-2020 Kerr County Budget and take a record vote. 4 The floor is open for discussion. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The only comment I 6 would have is we've had -- how many workshops did we 7 have? Six or something like that? Workshops where the 8 public was involved to some extent? Lots of input, even 9 outside the workshops. I think the department heads and 10 elected officials really need to be complimented on what 11 they did this year. There was not a lot of arguments or 12 discussions or anything. It looked like a really 13 responsible input to the budget request, so I think it's 14 good. I think that, you know, I certainly agree with 15 the comments that have been made about we need to look 16 at how to have a balanced budget, in light of the things 17 that we've also discussed about not having full 18 employment, etc., etc. And I think that's -- that's 19 next year's. But I think what's been here is a really 20 good budget. And The Reserve is excellent from -- or 21 the bottom line of, what, almost 25.6 percent and as 22 high as almost 28 percent in our general fund. So I 23 think it's a very good budget. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Commissioner Letz 25 explained earlier about how -- it's a matter of how we 110 1 do it. It's a matter of how it's stated in the process. 2 And in the saying that it's going to cost you this much 3 and ending up at the end of the year with funds left 4 over to go back into the general fund, is has been the 5 practice of the County. And so, I think some people are 6 a little more nervous than they need to be. If you -- 7 if you based it -- one of them is sitting up here. But 8 if you -- two of them are sitting up here. 9 But if you -- if you look at past years, if 10 you look at the track record of Kerr County up to this 11 point, we've been -- we've had the same style of 12 practice for a long time and we've not gone broke and 13 we've not had to get emergency funds and all of that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to applaud the 15 Judge for bringing up this issue to me. That this is 16 something that we have done as we've done it for a long 17 time, probably as long as I've been a Commissioner. And 18 I think that, you know, it's refreshing to have someone 19 come in and say, why? You know. The County Judge is 20 the chief budget officer and kind of came along kicking 21 this year. But I think -- and I think for very valid 22 reasons, but I think that it is time to look at how we 23 do it. When we were in Austin I talked to other 24 counties and they're -- as an example, the way they 25 handle the salary issue, they vote -- they budget a 111 1 negative number in their salary line items to adjust 2 down. They budget full employment and then they put a 3 negative number in there to counter balance it, because 4 they're not going to be in full employee and they 5 aren't. So that's how they do it. And I think -- I 6 think looking at it in a new light is a really good 7 thing for us to do, and I thank Judge Kelly for kind of 8 going in that direction this year and really bring it up 9 and saying we need to change. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I understand it a lot 11 more than I did sitting out there. But that doesn't 12 mean I like it anymore. You know, I'm kind of used to 13 balancing the checkbook and going from there and 14 hopefully we can move towards that in the future. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I know all eyes are on 16 me, I'm the one that's gritching about this budget. But 17 in the interest of full and complete transparency, I 18 will share with you that two years ago -- and I -- I 19 shadowed Judge Pollard for two years to try to learn 20 what was going on. And there were a lot of things that 21 I didn't understand when I sat in the blue chairs where 22 you are. And one of them was in 2017, they adopted a 23 negative budget, a deficit budget. And if you'll look 24 there, you'll see it was $773,161, just to give you an 25 idea of what it was. And that was the largest in the 112 1 history of Kerr County. Just two years ago. And I went 2 to talk to our Auditor at the time, who is I think 3 respected and loved by all. She was an incredible 4 Auditor and CPA. And I needed -- I wanted to talk to 5 her because I needed to understand why she wasn't 6 squawking more about adopting a deficit budget. Now 7 that kind of goes counterintuitive to CPAs. And she was 8 somewhat nonchalant about it, which kind of alarmed me 9 because I was concerned and she wasn't. And we had the 10 typical business lawyer/CPA discussion about deficit 11 budgets, and she agreed with everything that I believed 12 about deficit budgets, and then I asked her, well, why 13 wasn't she more concerned? And she says, Well, they've 14 been doing it this way and it works. And so I asked her 15 to explain to me, what is it that they're doing and what 16 is it that works? And it was a very frank discussion 17 that what happens is that our elected officials and 18 department heads systematically provide for every 19 possible contingency that could affect their office. 20 And so they tend to budget for worse case scenarios. 21 That's good. As I was saying earlier, that's the 22 conservative approach to budgeting. Now I -- I don't 23 criticize that. And then she pointed out to me that 24 they're just as conservative on the other side, when it 25 comes to projecting revenues. So they under budget 113 1 revenues, over budget expenses. And my question was, 2 well, how do you know what's going to happen at the end 3 of the year? This is like musical chairs. The music is 4 playing. If the music stops, what happens if we don't 5 have the money? That money comes out of the fund 6 balance. And if you look at the fund balance on this 7 one, you see it's a little over eight million dollars. 8 8 million 145. And that represents 27.99 percent, 9 almost 28 percent of our annual budget. And those 10 percentages are important because the guidelines are 11 that we try to keep at least three months revenues in 12 the general fund so the government can operate for three 13 months if we have a disaster and we have nothing coming 14 in. Again, I think that is good, conservative financial 15 planning. I don't disagree with that. This is my first 16 year to sit in the black seats. And trust me, there's a 17 big difference between those blue seats and these black 18 seats. If you don't believe me, come sit in it 19 sometimes. 20 I'm concerned when I -- when you look at the 21 budget, and of course James -- I'm going to let James 22 explain the difference between the fund balance deficit 23 and the overall total deficit, and what it is that we 24 have control over. Let me start with that. 25 When we look at the schedule that we 114 1 referenced earlier, for the last seven or eight years on 2 the deficit spending, those deficits refer only to the 3 general fund deficit budgeting, is that right? 4 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And can you explain to us why 6 you use only general fund for that comparison? 7 MR. ROBLES: It is by far the largest piece 8 of the pie. The Road and Bridge or the debt service, 9 the special revenue funds, those are more or less 10 treated separately. But the largest piece of pie to 11 have the most control over is the general fund. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And when we look down the 13 budget, I mean -- I mean literally down the page, much 14 of that additional deficit that we encounter, we had 15 very little to no control over. Is that right? 16 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 17 JUDGE KELLY: With the exception of Road and 18 Bridge? 19 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 20 JUDGE KELLY: And just so that we understand 21 what's happening in Road and Bridge this year, we're 22 anticipating a deficit of $664,000? 23 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And just so that everyone 25 understands, if we move one column to the left, explain 115 1 what the $775,000 is. 2 MR. ROBLES: That is a transfer out from the 3 general fund into Road and Bridge to help supplement 4 their operations. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And so that reduced their 6 deficit? 7 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. It would have been 8 greater had we not done that. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And with regard to the items 10 above that on debt service, there's a deficit on that 11 and that was simply because of a misunderstanding of the 12 payment schedules? 13 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. Last year the 14 Auditor had budgeted that we were going to have a 15 principal payment on our latest debt service. That was 16 not the case. So we over collected for that and we're 17 paying that back essentially. 18 JUDGE KELLY: So that's -- that's just a 19 fairly common type mistake? 20 MR. ROBLES: Well, it's -- I think the 21 budgeting process of when that debt came, it was 22 uncertain when the schedule would be. So I think being 23 prudent, she was conservative and said if it happens to 24 come up we'll be prepared. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and that's 129, 30 116 1 thousand dollars and we're -- we're in a position to be 2 able to cover that, right? 3 MR. ROBLES: Yes. We're not allocating 4 taxpayer money to that because we have it in the bank. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And then, when we look at the 6 budget when people see it, all the -- the bottom half of 7 the page are these funds that we have virtually no 8 control over whatsoever? 9 MR. ROBLES: They're a special revenue fund. 10 There are limited uses for what we can expend and 11 limited revenue coming into it. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So specified revenue is 13 specified expenditure? 14 JUDGE KELLY: Right. And so when we look at 15 last year's deficit budget of $1.8 million in the 16 general fund. 17 MR. ROBLES: Yes, Sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Ah, explain to us again how we 19 come out this year with regard to the deficit from last 20 year? 21 MR. ROBLES: We -- just to get started, we 22 had anticipated $25.8 million in revenue and we're most 23 likely to collect $26.4 million. And the difference 24 between that is the out-of-county prisoners as of today, 25 is about $550,000 above what we had budgeted for, which 117 1 is great. 2 Really, the big piece of the pie, what turns 3 that deficit budget into a surplus -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: Exactly. 5 MR. ROBLES: -- is the fact that we are not 6 going to spend as much as we budgeted. I anticipate us 7 spending about 25.7 million, whereas we budgeted 27.6. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and we just -- just 9 round it off, we're going to spend twenty-five seven and 10 you budgeted twenty-five -- twenty-seven seven. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: About a million. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Almost a million dollars 13 less -- 14 MR. ROBLES: Two million. 15 JUDGE KELLY: -- expenditures. 16 MR. ROBLES: Almost two million. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Almost two million. Excuse 18 me, two million. I stand corrected. 19 And so that means that about two million 20 dollars that was budgeted from last year's budget that 21 we have is being returned back to the County for use 22 this year. 23 MR. ROBLES: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. That makes me feel a 25 little better. I take -- I take a deep breath on that. 118 1 And I -- I understand what we're doing. But you can 2 understand my concern when you look at the bottom of the 3 page, and all considered, we're $2.7 million deficit 4 when you take everything into consideration. And if the 5 music stops on that, there's only one place that money 6 can come from. And that's out of the fund balance. 7 MR. ROBLES: Yes. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And you and I looked -- looked 9 at that and that's roughly about 30 percent of our fund 10 balance if this deficit budget plays out the way that we 11 planned for it to -- to work out. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The way it could. 13 JUDGE KELLY: The way it could. What -- 14 what we're authorizing and the expenditures. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Uh-huh. 16 JUDGE KELLY: If -- if our elected officials 17 and Department heads don't return this money, and the 18 music stops and we don't have a chair to sit in, that's 19 the only place it can come out of, right? 20 MR. ROBLES: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 22 JUDGE KELLY: That's my concern. That's my 23 concern. And so, rather than belabor the point, what 24 I'm in favor of is tighter budgeting. A little bit more 25 heads up so we know what to expect. We can't budget 93 119 1 percent of our payroll for the personnel for the County. 2 That's crazy. You can't do that. But we know that -- 3 or what is it, about 93 percent, wasn't it? 93? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 JUDGE KELLY: But we know that this year 6 about seven percent of the positions that we had funded, 7 were not filled. And so, just like Commissioner Letz is 8 saying, I would like for us to realistically start 9 trying to project what it is that we think, giving our 10 best crystal ball gifts up here, so that we know a 11 little bit more with open eyes the budget that we're 12 adopting instead of sitting here and just blindly voting 13 for $2.8 million deficit or 1.8 out of the general fund. 14 And to budget a little bit tighter at the Department and 15 elected official offices area so that we know 16 realistically what we expect to spend. And if they need 17 to footnote it and tell us, well, I didn't build in for 18 this contingency or I didn't plan for this, because I've 19 given you a little bit leaner budget, so be it. 20 Sheriff? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I agree and I 22 disagree. 23 JUDGE KELLY: You always do. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. The 25 problem I have, and of course I have the most employees 120 1 as any one department, and I budget for every one of 2 those employees. For every position. Because, you 3 know, I would rather budget for every position and know 4 that -- in knowing that if I'm full, that it's going -- 5 that their salaries are going to be paid, than 6 intentionally not budgeting for them and come up short, 7 and then the way the Court is, well, why didn't you 8 budget for these. You know. You -- you were given this 9 position, why didn't you budget for this position? 10 Okay. That's -- that's where I have an issue with not 11 being realistic on budgeting your numbers. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And I don't disagree. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And on -- and on 14 out-of-county housing, to give you an example on that, 15 the former Auditor and I both sat down with that. And 16 because Kendall County was completing their building, 17 and these other ones, we seriously thought we budgeted 18 that on the high side. Okay. And if Kendall County and 19 the other small ones would have done that, then we would 20 have been a lot shorter than what we are. But since 21 they've continued to house with us and things out of our 22 control, actually it made it better for us that we just 23 did it, just opened that up and made that income go up 24 drastically. Just like it will now with Nueces County 25 coming in. 121 1 But I don't know how you intentionally, and 2 I'll be honest, thank goodness out of all the years I've 3 done budgets I've only got one more to do. But I don't 4 know how you -- how I could intentionally short a 5 budget, you know. I hope it is in all of you. But in a 6 lot of ways I hope we don't, you know, sometimes fill 7 all the positions because that gives you a little bit of 8 leeway if you go over somewhere. But realistically, I 9 think we're doing a bigger disservice if we don't budget 10 for what we've been given. If I'm given 116 employees, 11 I need to budget for those 116. Because if I only 12 budget for a hundred because that's normally about an 13 average of what we fill, I think that's lying to the 14 public. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- Judge, I'll 16 make a comment. One to his comment and one in general. 17 Your concept is -- the way I would envision it working 18 is that the -- you budget a hundred percent for your 19 employees, the Court under non-departmental or -- 20 probably non-departmental, budgets a negative number. 21 So that accounts for a countywide adjustment. So it's 22 not -- I think each department or -- would budget the 23 number employees they have. Another reason for doing it 24 that way, and this is another reason we need to be 25 careful, I mean I think we're getting -- we've gotten 122 1 too far the last two years on the difference. But the 2 other thing is, that we need to be careful we don't get 3 too tight on the expenditure side because there's 4 another thing called State Law that we have to follow. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And State Law says that 7 if we run short, we -- we can't just go take the money 8 out of reserve. We have to be able to declare an 9 emergency to do that. And the State Law is very 10 restricted as to when we can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's what emergencies 12 are. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So but not -- the fact 14 that we didn't budget enough for paper, that isn't an 15 emergency, for employees. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: When has that ever 17 happened? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it hasn't -- 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: In this County? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it hasn't happened 21 and that's what I'm saying. I think we need to get 22 where -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: It happened at Hurricane 24 Harvey down at the coast. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 123 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But my point is that -- 2 it goes back to Jonathan's point earlier which is, we 3 budget this way, we end up -- it looks bad on paper, it 4 ends up okay at the end of the year. But it's because 5 of a process by which we conduct business, not because 6 we lack funds. And we've hadn't had to go into the 7 emergency funds. That would have proved that we were 8 doing it wrong with a big exclamation point at the end 9 of it. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, but I think personally 11 we need to be doing something a little different. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 14 JUDGE KELLY: But I don't disagree with the 15 basic premise. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to me, the 1.8 18 deficit this year, the 1.7 next year, those are too big. 19 The 300,000 in '14, '15, that's probably a reasonable 20 deficit that, you know, I could -- that's pretty close 21 budgeting on this scale. Anyway. Enough said on that. 22 JUDGE KELLY: The one thing I would like 23 to -- to address, and I want to make sure that the chair 24 hears me because we agree and disagree about everything. 25 And I think that's part of civil debate, isn't it? 124 1 No elected official could possibly be expected to not 2 budget full staff. No department head could be expected 3 to not budget full staff for your personnel. 4 Now, what the County does is we can budget 5 an allowance that is an offset against what the full 6 budget is to try to realistically know where we are. We 7 come together once a week and pay bills. We come 8 together once a week and do budget amendments. What we 9 don't do is monitor where we are with regard to what's 10 going to be returned at the end of the year and we're 11 running into a couple million dollars a year now. And 12 if we -- if that music stops, it's going to be a sad 13 day. And so what I'm trying to do is to get a better 14 handle on monthly, quarterly control, so that we know 15 what to expect. 16 For example, we start off with a projection 17 of $250,000 income from housing inmates at the jail. 18 Well, I knew what it meant and I know -- I know the 19 Sheriff knew what it meant when he came in here midyear 20 and started telling us look at these numbers. But we 21 didn't have it -- we didn't have it in the budget so we 22 could actually look at it, where are we with regard to 23 the allowance that we have for that, we could -- we 24 could have foreseen that we were going to have the 25 additional income that we had. Those additional 125 1 revenues. I just want it monitored more closely. 2 And the other thing that I would add is this 3 is the County. And most of the employees in this County 4 have either been here a long time or plan to be here a 5 long time. There's a great deal of institutional 6 knowledge in this building and in the entire County 7 government process. And just like with the Sheriff, 8 we've got 30 -- how many years institutional knowledge, 9 Rusty? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Too many. 11 JUDGE KELLY: But what? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 39. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And -- and he knows 14 that -- when we do all this stuff, he knows he's under 15 budget for everything, but he also knows as we go along 16 what's getting spent and what's not getting spent. And 17 we really don't deal with it until whala, here's budget 18 season and we start looking at it for the first time. 19 What I'm trying to do is to get a better 20 pulse for the blood flow of the County as we're living 21 it rather than once a year we sit there and look at it 22 and we over budget another two million dollars. Because 23 if this music stops, it's not going to be pretty for 24 anybody and -- and I don't want to vote for a negative 25 deficit budget, I don't believe in deficit budgets. 126 1 I've already told you I'm not going to vote for this 2 budget but I'm not going to vote against this budget 3 because I know the dilemma that we're in. But by the 4 same token, I am committed with every breath that we 5 need to have a more accurate budgeting process. And we 6 simply -- last two years, a million eight, a million 7 seven, last year and this year, that's too big a margin. 8 That's too big a margin for my comfort. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Should we have 10 quarterly reviews with department heads and -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: I think that's probably a good 12 suggestion. This is something that we want to sit down 13 and work out with our new Auditor when she comes. But I 14 just want to know -- I want to have a more accurate 15 financial picture week to week, month to month, quarter 16 to quarter, and not be waiting on baited breath in 17 September to see what's coming back. We've -- I've been 18 talking to James for, what, three months now. What do 19 we think is coming back? We've revised that number half 20 a dozen times, haven't we? 21 MR. ROBLES: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, one thing is 23 establishing budget. And that's fixed. And we've got 24 some manipulation capability. But the monitoring it 25 weekly or monthly or whatever, all that does is let you 127 1 vector. You still have to sit within the framework and 2 the balance of what you set in the budget. So it helps 3 you reallocate it if you need to within whatever the 4 County Attorney will let us reallocate. Okay. But -- 5 but I think establishing the budget -- and I think next 6 year's budget and we started, we're belaboring this 7 probably too much because it's a separate discussion, 8 but I think we need to have this philosophy discussion 9 with all elected officials and all department heads and 10 I think say, you know, here's what the -- and we did 11 about five years ago. We came in and there was a lot of 12 -- we could see a lot of excess in the budget and we 13 argued almost every department, long and hard. And 14 we'll finally got there this year, I think, everybody 15 came in more responsibly but I'm not going to repeat 16 what everybody said. But -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: But it's still 1.7. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- it's still 1.7, 19 correct. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, taken -- taking 21 what the Judge said, if we go -- and what a wise man 22 once told me, you don't know what's going to happen if 23 you go to the moon unless you go. You don't know what's 24 going to happen if you don't sit down and have those 25 meetings and see what we might do with that information. 128 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, sure. Yeah. 2 Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And part of my concern is the 4 Sheriff has done a marvelous job through the years of 5 being able to manage the biggest part of our budget. 6 And he knows it. But we're going to have a new Sheriff. 7 And we're not going to have that institutional 8 knowledge. And I don't want to comment on the political 9 situation, but I'm looking for somebody with budget 10 experience in that office. Because that's one of the 11 most important functions of what the Sheriff's Office 12 has to do. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if they think they 14 get to be a cop anymore, they're crazy. But, you know, 15 the last two years, one thing you really have to look 16 at, too, is they've been extraordinary type years. One, 17 we were finishing up a jail construction and we had 18 closed the jail for a long time. We were just starting 19 to house out of county so you're estimating that, the 20 Auditor and I were. So there was a lot of -- I don't 21 think you'll see that big of margin like you're seeing. 22 And one thing I think that a lot of departments, most of 23 them are probably using it, in the detailing in the -- 24 in the computer system, the in code system we have. You 25 know, and I don't see it that much up on the display 129 1 when we actually breakdown and start looking at the -- 2 in the workshop and what this line item is asking for 3 and what this line item is covering. But such as in the 4 jail one, I can go to prisoner supplies and you can open 5 that up and you will actually see the number of rolls of 6 toilet paper we're going to buy for next year. Or the 7 number of, you know, female hygiene items that you're 8 going to buy. I mean actual numbers or what is within 9 that budget to come up with the budget numbers you get. 10 Now, the big variances you get or that Kelly would have 11 to fight and I have to, you know, guess is, number one, 12 what's gas prices going to do? Her, where she's looking 13 at oils and all that kind of stuff, I wouldn't even want 14 to think about trying to do. Because gasoline prices is 15 just something we don't know, you know. Food prices in 16 that jail is something. So -- so we're taking what 17 would normally be -- I've always said running the County 18 is kind of like running an entire City. Because it's 19 not just one business line that you're trying to figure 20 out, what is your bottom line price going to be for this 21 business line. We're running in this County every type 22 of business there is. Whether it's restaurant. Whether 23 it's a gas station. Whether it's medical. Whether -- 24 you know, a hospital. I mean, you're running -- it's a 25 conglomeration of every type of business that occurs in 130 1 a county, this County inside runs it. And that's where 2 it's really hard, you know, to get. Now, the last two I 3 think were interesting. But I think that overall 4 it's -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: Interesting is a curious word. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I mean I'll be 7 honest. They were interesting to the degree that I 8 think it was remarkable that we were able to come out 9 ahead. 10 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because I think that 12 took a whole lot -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: And I thank you and I -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- from the County. 15 JUDGE KELLY: -- thank all the other -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that took a lot 17 from -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: -- employees in the County for 19 what they did. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- the other ones to 21 give. Because it was looking hard in the last few 22 budget years and everybody worked the hardest. 23 JUDGE KELLY: But it's a breathless roller 24 coaster ride for those of us that -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 131 1 JUDGE KELLY: -- voted on it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I'll be -- I'll be 3 honest. If I'd tried to do it any tighter than what I 4 did, I don't know that you would come up with a hundred 5 dollar difference in my budget request then as now. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I -- I just don't see 8 it changing. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and -- and I understand 10 that. But the variable is that you budget for what you 11 need to budget. You're going to budget for your staff. 12 You're going to budget for what you think most of these 13 things are going to cost. Because we can't go back and 14 just re-budget mid year unless there is a severe 15 emergency of some sort, which we haven't had. I don't 16 think we've ever had one, have we? 17 AUDIENCE: We've had some floods that hurt. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've had emergencies, 19 but not catastrophic types. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I don't think we've gone 21 back and tried to amend the budget mid year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've declared 23 emergencies. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Over the years 25 we've -- there's been a time or two. Not often. But 132 1 they're has been a time or two that I can recall. But, 2 you know, it -- I think every department head is trying 3 to do the best they can, okay, with it. But I think 4 we -- we're trying to give y'all realistic numbers and 5 the best -- I don't think any of us are trying to 6 inflate it to say, you know, good, I'll give myself this 7 cushion here. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And no one's saying that and 9 I'm not saying that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of the time it -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: And what I'm saying is, 12 everything has a variable tolerance. And we're 13 expensing at the top of the tolerance level and we're 14 revenuing at the bottom of the tolerance level. And we 15 don't know from the various departments and offices what 16 kind of variance is available for us to even think 17 about, where are we on this. Where are we going to be. 18 And so what I want to introduce into the budgeting 19 process is the -- that variable allowance though that we 20 have. Your best estimate, okay, if this is the worst 21 case, the best case is this. And then we can try to 22 budget within that range. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing -- 24 and -- and part of the culture and I'll go back and I'm 25 not knocking anybody on this Court now, but I will go 133 1 back to a time when we did budget kind of shortfall or 2 -- or it came up that way. And I can remember more than 3 once standing right here at this podium, and the 4 Commissioners' Court saying well, Sheriff, why didn't 5 you budget enough for that? I don't want to have that 6 again. Because that is not a good position to be 7 standing here when we're trying to do it and be told 8 it's your fault, department head, because you didn't 9 budget enough for it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Uh-huh. 11 JUDGE KELLY: And I understand. And if -- 12 if we do that then -- then we're accountable for it. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 14 JUDGE KELLY: What -- what I'm trying to do 15 is to shift the burden here. The budget culture, to 16 borrow the term, is that everybody comes to us with 17 proposed budgets. And then we spend two and a half, 18 three month process of trying to winnow down that -- 19 those requests. And that's where we are today on this 20 budget. This is what we have been able to cut it back 21 to. And we all know that this time next year we're 22 going to find out there were a lot of these things that 23 could have been cut more. We just don't know what they 24 are. You do. Each -- each department head does. Each 25 officeholder does. But the Court does not. 134 1 And so we're budgeting at max and -- and 2 projecting revenues at minimum. And we don't have a 3 realistic feel for how much play is in this budget. And 4 so that's -- that's why -- what I want to do is to come 5 in and give everybody a proposed budget. Work with the 6 Auditor's Office, James and I have talked about this, 7 and we're going to come up with a proposed budget that 8 we're going to -- I hope is going to be balanced or 9 pretty close to balanced, and then start with that and 10 shift the burden from this Court having to not give you 11 what you want, which is what we want through this last 12 year. You remember all these workshops we had and how 13 people -- upset people were. We didn't give them what 14 they wanted. To the burden shifts to you to come tell 15 us, this is why I need more than what you're budgeting. 16 And this is the differential. So that we can 17 realistically calculate that. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But on some of that -- 19 and this is just my ignorance, I guess, in some ways. 20 But just like on out-of-county housing, you know, the 21 Auditor and I sat down, in fact, even Bob Reeves was 22 part of that. And we actually -- the Auditor thought we 23 were over budgeting what our estimated revenues would be 24 because of what was going on. Okay. So I put that 25 revenue in there. And it was -- what was it, 350, Bob, 135 1 is what we thought? And it's going to come in close to 2 700, all right. How do you change that? I -- nothing 3 at the beginning of the budget, yeah. If we look at it 4 through the year I can say, come in here, like I have, 5 you know, halfway through it or ever quarter and say -- 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't -- I don't 7 think the issue is a happy surprise. I don't think -- 8 that a happy surprise is the problem. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. It's that 10 other one that y'all get me. It's the first time we 11 have a wrecked car that I don't have enough insurance to 12 cover it and I have to pull it out of the budget. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's the unhappy 14 surprise, yeah. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Because 16 insurance deductible changes, you know, that -- that 17 gets your -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it'll be an 19 interesting -- because there's things like, you know, 20 you said you don't want an unhappy surprise. But that's 21 part of the way we -- it -- it works. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just don't know. 24 Insurance is another item. We a lot of times don't have 25 all our insurance numbers and we just don't -- we don't 136 1 -- I mean, there's a -- if we get conservative, that 2 isn't an emergency. That means if we -- if we 3 underestimate on insurance, that means that we're going 4 to tell Kelly, sorry, you're not building all those 5 roads this year, we're taking money. I mean, it's -- 6 you know, it's -- that's the problem. The price of oil 7 goes up, we have to go and do something. I mean there's 8 -- there's -- we're obligated by law to -- this is what 9 makes it difficult -- to fund all the elected officials. 10 So where we cut back is on departments we actually have 11 control over. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think the Judge 13 had a good point too. Start the year with a targeted 14 budget for each elected official and department head. 15 Then you got something to -- oops, I can't do that 16 because or here's the -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: That's exactly what we're 18 talking about. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- or here's the -- and 20 I think that's an extremely -- that's a good way to do 21 it. Here's a target, it'll give a balance, and that 22 tells, you know, what risks we're taking, and some of 23 them it's just pure risk, you know, in doing it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're definitely out of 25 whack. 137 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And others -- others 2 will be totally out of whack. Okay. Good. Good idea. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we on the 4 agenda, Judge? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Is that the idea? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we have a motion on 7 the budget? 8 JUDGE KELLY: I don't know if we've got a 9 motion on the budget yet. 10 MRS. DOWDY: I don't have a motion. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'll make a motion. 12 Oh, are we on -- where are we on -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1.14, is that what we're 14 on? 15 MRS. STEBBINS: 1.15. Record vote. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. I'll make a 17 motion that we adopt the 2019-20 County Budget as 18 presented by the acting County Auditor, and I'll not 19 delineate or go through what that is but as presented. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually presented by 21 the County Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: As present -- huh? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually presented by 24 the County Judge. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: As present -- oh, 138 1 excuse me. Right. As presented by the County Judge. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: James was on there and 3 he was sweating it. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. You'll reflect 5 that in the votes. Right. Yeah, as presented by the 6 County Judge. Thank you, Commissioner Letz. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 9 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 10 approve the budget as presented for 2019-2020. Any 11 further discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We've had enough. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. It's a record vote. 14 Precinct 1. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 2. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 3. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 4. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct -- or not precinct. 23 County Judge who didn't get to present his own budget. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, oh. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By law, you have to. 139 1 JUDGE KELLY: I abstain. I'm not going to 2 vote for a deficit budget. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 4 JUDGE KELLY: And we're going to revisit 5 this hard next year. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 7 JUDGE KELLY: But it passes 4-0-1. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you very 9 much. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Ready for a break? Let's take 11 about a ten-minute break and come back at five minutes 12 to 12:00. 13 (Break.) 14 JUDGE KELLY: Come back to order. Everyone 15 had breakfast? I have a juvenile docket at 1:30 so I'm 16 pretty sure that -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be done. 18 JUDGE KELLY: -- I'm going nonstop. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Next item on the agenda is 21 1.16 consider, discuss and take appropriate action on a 22 request from Texas Archeological Society to use Flat 23 Rock Park for their Field School from June 10, 2020 to 24 June 20, 2020. Ms. Osborn. 25 MS. OSBORN: I there. 140 1 JUDGE KELLY: Hi. 2 MS. OSBORN: Thank you. May I pass these 3 out? 4 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 5 MS. OSBORN: Thank you. I'm just here and 6 I'd like to introduce Texas Archeological Society and 7 myself. I am an archaeologist. I work for the Texas 8 Historical Commission, your state agency for historic 9 preservation. And I know Kerr County is a County that 10 has a very active County Historical Commission and a 11 great interest in the history and heritage of this area. 12 And my job at CHC is as the regional archaeologist for 13 the Hill Country and I'm also the State and Federal 14 project reviewer from the archeology division. And I am 15 a member of the Texas Archeological Society and have 16 been for many, many years and our organizations are 17 partners and we share a good portion of our mission. 18 So the Texas Archeological Society has been 19 around for 90 years. It is one of the most well 20 respected in the state, largest -- I mean largest in the 21 nation. And our archaeological field school, which we 22 host every year, serves as the model for the nation. We 23 have been having field school since 1962. So we've been 24 doing this quite a lot. And it's a week long, every 25 summer, and it moves to a different archaeological site 141 1 and/or city region of the State, and we try to move it 2 around because members of the public join and become 3 members of the Texas Archeological Society. And our 4 goal is really preservation, archeological awareness, 5 outreach, education, and the proper study and research 6 of archaeological resources across the State. 7 So Kerrville is blessed to have some of the 8 most important archeology in the region. I mean, I'm 9 kind of partial to it as the Hill Country Regional 10 Archeologist, but you guys have -- are blessed with some 11 really important aspects of Texas history and pre- 12 history. The archeological field school this summer 13 that we're proposing to have is going to be working on a 14 site that is just on the west side of town and on 15 private land. And we -- as an organization, we expect 16 to have for about ten days here, I'm estimating this 17 year we end up around 500, 600 people. This would 18 certainly be because of its location and because of the 19 archeological site, this will be one of our largest 20 field schools in quite a number of years. 21 And we would -- we are -- have a partial 22 contract to host our activities and our primary center, 23 like our headquarters of activities in the camp at River 24 Star Park. And this field school, we have a cook's 25 trailer, we have, you know, a Ben E. Keith trailer 142 1 there. We have evening programs. All kinds of things. 2 And all these people, many of them will camp. I'd say 3 70 percent of them will camp. They will be here -- most 4 people will sign up for the full week. Some people will 5 sign up for the first half of the week, second half of 6 the week. So it staggers a little bit. But folks will 7 be occupying the campground. 8 We'll be feeding them. We'll be purchasing 9 locally from a merchandiser, Ike's for sale to our 10 group. Port-a-potties. Roll off dumpsters. Quite a 11 lot of impact, I believe, economically to any City that 12 we come to. So -- so that's a great benefit of our 13 organization coming into town. We'll have a lot of 14 folks staying in hotels, and local RV parks as well, 15 because not all of us are campers. And so what our 16 interest is, because the pavilion at River Star Park 17 will be all of our evening programs and meals will be 18 served there. We are looking or interested in having 19 use of Flat Rock Park adjacent to it so that our campers 20 can walk over to meals and -- and have that kind have 21 access to our primary center of activity. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Would you anticipate 23 the roads needing to be closed or somebody to direct 24 traffic or anything like that? 25 MS. OSBORN: Well, not being terribly 143 1 familiar with the actual -- the access in and out of 2 that park myself, I'd sort of -- I'd defer to you all. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, we -- we talked 4 about that. I met with Tiffany and Jake the other day 5 for a couple of hours I think. And we looked at that as 6 sort of -- as I listened to Tiffany and her discussion 7 she's had with Jake and how to set this up, it's kind of 8 like, okay, the Junior Livestock Show in February. 9 Where they bring all the trailers, all the 10 people and everything in, and so instead of bringing 11 trailers and animals, it's going to be trailers and 12 rocks. Okay. Or rock hounds. Okay. So it's basically 13 the same kind of thing, except they want it -- they're 14 proposing -- their request is to camp on Flat Rock Park. 15 Not in the Dog Park, but in the other portion of the 16 thing. And with that, probably do the same thing on 17 closing the road. Okay. Same extent that we would 18 during Junior Livestock Show, so people can go back and 19 forth across there safer. 20 Talk about too, if you will, Tiffany, about 21 the security, and what you do, and the port-a-potties 22 and all that kind have stuff, if you would. 23 MS. OSBORN: Yeah, we'll be bringing in an 24 lot of Porta-Johns for the camp area, the central, the 25 dining area. Scattered around, of course. And then 144 1 also out at the archeological sites that we'll be 2 working on. We have a camp boss that -- actually we'll 3 have a camp boss and an assistant camp boss that stay in 4 camp throughout the entire day to sort of make sure that 5 our camp is secure, support any logistical needs within 6 the camp and, of course, the campers will leave from 7 7:00 a.m. until 1:00 p.m. to go do excavation or survey, 8 whatever that activity is that they've chosen for the 9 week. And so we -- we are always left with several 10 people who secure the camp, and keep an eye out for 11 anything -- anything going on there. 12 But, you know, we have -- this is -- 13 generally -- knowing that this one's going to be a large 14 one, we will have probably a youth group this year of 60 15 to 70 kids that are also doing archaeology in an area 16 and learning from professional archeologists how to do 17 proper excavation techniques and fun activities that are 18 reminiscent of primitive skills and things like this. 19 And we also do teacher training as well. So we'll have 20 teacher certification programs going on during field 21 school. 22 We've got a few ancillary activities that 23 will take place, like in archaeolympics event that our 24 participants join in to and we're going to be, of 25 course, inviting all of the, you know, local area and 145 1 the community to join us for field school. But in 2 particular, we're going to have one day on a Thursday, 3 usually where we actually have a public day and a public 4 presentation and artifact identification day, where we 5 will present what it is that we've been doing in your 6 community and what we have learned from the field school 7 throughout the week and -- and what contribution that is 8 to the local history as well. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's my 10 understanding that the site which you're going to be 11 exploring, let me call it that for lack of a knowledge, 12 is like 88 acres? Is that -- 13 MS. OSBORN: Yeah, it's 88. Uh-huh. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. So let me 15 introduce Steve Statamyer here, too. Steve, stand up 16 and tell us who you are. 17 MR. STATAMYER: Yes. Steve Statamyer, 18 retired geologist, but a closet archaeologist. And this 19 site is one that our local organization, Hill Country 20 Archeological Association, has been working for about 21 the last five years. There's so much of it we cannot 22 work all of it. But we've just kind of pinpricked the 23 site and we've identified the richer areas. We've done 24 some radio carbon dating of the culture material out 25 there and the oldest date we've gotten so far is 7,500 146 1 years before present. 2 We've got some other things out there that 3 indicate there were Native Americans there earlier, but 4 it's a very rich site. It represents a meeting place 5 intermittently through the millennial groups that moved 6 back and forth in this country utilizing the native game 7 and the native plants. So it -- as sites go, it is 8 going to be a very exciting one, I think, for the 9 people. It -- because you get all kind of people that 10 come to these field schools. A lot of people come 11 because they want to find things. Now, the archeology 12 has done it very methodically and very professionally. 13 But those people that want to find things are going to 14 be very pleased with this. Because there's a lot out 15 there. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And Tiffany, you 17 mentioned the fact that this is such a desirable 18 location for them and things as Steve mentioned, is -- 19 there's a possibility that it will not just be this 20 year, but perhaps next year also? 21 MS. OSBORN: We are absolutely gunning for a 22 second year here as well. Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So 500 to 600 24 people, that's -- that's pretty big. So -- and your 25 request is to designate Flat Rock Park from June the 147 1 10th through June the 20th of next year and close the 2 park. Leave the boat ramp open, leave the Dog Park 3 open, but -- but to have a controlled area by which 4 people can camp and use River Star. 5 One other question and I'll ask Jake. If 6 the weather were just to go berserk, is that possible 7 that -- and perhaps you've had a discussion of moving 8 into or utilizing any of the other facilities? 9 MR. WILLIAMSON: At this time we have no 10 other contract of events. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 MR. WILLIAMSON: We do have some on hold, 13 but that is to a weather backup. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. So you can't 15 commit to it, but it's feasible. Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I support it. The only 17 comment I have is that, you know, that's an awful big 18 area, just to open up. I wonder if we should try to 19 narrow where the camping is in that park a little bit. 20 I don't think we want them right by the river 21 necessarily because people -- they -- you know, I'm 22 thinking of a flooding possibility. To have them not 23 just everywhere in the park. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you want -- thinking 25 about it from safety? 148 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, safety. To have a 2 narrow -- and I'm not going to put that in a motion but 3 just as to things that -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- so that they're not 6 -- because that's -- it gets -- there's a little slew 7 that goes in the middle of it and then you get down to 8 the area where those people used to do mudding all the 9 time. I guess they still do. Probably not so much. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sort of as a stay back 11 from where the new playground equipment is to the west? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That still gives you 14 80 percent of what you're looking at. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of it is 16 concentrate them a little bit so they're not -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right. 18 MS. OSBORN: And, of course -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, and from a 20 security standpoint also. 21 MS. OSBORN: Sure. And, of course, people 22 will selectively choose shady locations for camping in 23 June as well. Is that -- is the area that they're 24 mentioning close to that gate? The access to River Star 25 Park? 149 1 MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes. 2 MS. OSBORN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, the part we're 4 talking -- that I'm talking about is the area closest to 5 the River Star Park. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yea. So leave that for 7 them? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, yeah. The other 10 end is -- at the far end where -- you know, back towards 11 the Dog Park back there where it narrows down. 12 MS. OSBORN: Uh-huh. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So with that, I would 14 make a motion that we approve the use of Flat Rock Park 15 for the Texas Archeological Society from the period of 16 June 10th to June the 20th, for their use. And that's 17 my motion. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Motion has been made by 20 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Harris, to 21 approve the request for the Texas Archeological Society 22 to use Flat Rock Park for their field school from June 23 10 to June 20, this coming year. 24 MRS. GRINSTEAD: I just have one comment. 25 This wouldn't have anything to do with the use of the 150 1 park like based on the number she's mentioning, it might 2 be a mass gathering. So this could definitely get into 3 the mass gathering portion. Again, it wouldn't affect 4 this, but there is another process. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I've done one of those. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what I -- from 7 what she said, a mass gathering is going to be enacted 8 if it's 2500 people or more at one place. But if it 9 drops to 500 if -- and then it goes to like 51 percent 10 of the 500 are under 21 years of age and there's 11 alcohol. So if you don't have any of those, you don't 12 have to worry about the mass gathering. 13 MS. OSBORN: I don't think in any one 14 situation we'll ever have anything exceeding that. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, just work with 16 the Sheriff and make sure. 17 MS. OSBORN: Happily. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Just moderate and if we need 20 to have a hearing, we'll have a hearing. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Sure. Sure. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any further discussion? 23 All those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five 24 zero. 25 MS. OSBORN: Thank you. 151 1 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Tiffany. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Tiffany and 3 Steve. Appreciate it. 4 MS. OSBORN: Thank you very much. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And Jake. 6 JUDGE KELLY: 1.17 consider, discuss and 7 take appropriate action to ratify the property tax 8 increase as reflected in the budget and take a record 9 vote. Next year we're going to cluster these a little 10 bit better together so we don't skip around so much. 11 But the budget that we just adopted included 12 an effective tax rate increase. I see Mr. Reeves coming 13 up to tell us about it. 14 MR. REEVES: I'll need to enlist James to 15 make sure that our numbers -- but this is just an 16 increase from the increase in values arising as well as 17 new improvements. We're not talking anything about tax 18 rates on this. Of 881,434. Is that in line with what 19 we just -- 20 MR. ROBLES: Yes. 21 MR. REEVES: That is the amount of tax 22 increase in tax revenue. And my understanding this will 23 need to be a record vote to -- that you ratify that 24 increase. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this a new -- 152 1 MR. REEVES: No, Sir. We've done it every 2 year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've done this before? 4 I don't remember this one. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So this -- it's 1.17 6 we're on, right? It says to ratify the property tax 7 increase. Will you explain that again, Bob? 8 MR. REEVES: It's the amount of additional 9 property tax revenue that will -- is reflected in the 10 budget. The total dollar amount, the new tax revenue 11 from increased property values and new improvement value 12 countywide. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So what's the amount? 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It says increase but -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, there is an increase. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that. But 17 it's worded strangely. 18 MR. REEVES: We're not -- as I've said, 19 Commissioner, we're not talking about tax rate at this 20 point. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 22 MR. REEVES: We're talking about tax 23 dollars, tax levy. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 25 MR. REEVES: $881,434, based on the tax rate 153 1 which was proposed about six weeks ago. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 3 we ratify the tax increase of $881,434 -- is that the 4 number you gave me? 5 MR. REEVES: As reflected in the budget. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As reflected in the 7 current budget. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 10 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Belew, to 11 approve the increased tax rate as reflected in the 12 budget. Any further discussion? Those in favor raise 13 your hand. Unanimous. Five zero. 14 Don't leave, Bob. 15 MR. REEVES: It's a record vote. 16 MR. REEVES: Okay. I'm sorry. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 1. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 2? 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 3? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 4? 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 25 JUDGE KELLY: County Judge votes yes. 154 1 Unanimous. 2 1.18 consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action to adopt the 2019 Lake Ingram Estates Road 4 District tax rate. 5 MR. REEVES: Yes, Sir. This is a tax rate 6 for a special district located up above the Ingram Dam. 7 The entire rate goes to interest and sinking fund at 8 retirement. The rate as calculated this year will be 9 .2265 per $100 valuation. In other words, 22.65 cents 10 per $100 valuation. And this -- this tax rate only 11 applies to those residents that are impacted with the 12 roads. 13 In your backup material, there's a specific 14 wording that a motion must be made as, and this will 15 also be a record vote, Your Honor. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. I move to 17 adopt the Lake Ingram Estates Road District tax rate of 18 .2265 per $100 valuation for the 2019 tax year. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 21 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 22 adopt the Lake Ingram Estates Road tax district rate of 23 .2265 per $100 valuation for the 2019 tax year. Any 24 other discussion? We have a record vote on this one, 25 too? 155 1 MR. REEVES: Yes, Sir. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Precinct 1? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 2? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 3? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 4? 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 10 JUDGE KELLY: County Judge votes yes. 11 Unanimous. Five zero. 12 1.19 consider, discuss, and take appropriate 13 action to take a record vote on the 2019 Kerr County tax 14 rate. This will believe the combined tax rate for Kerr 15 County and Lateral Roads. 16 MR. REEVES: Yes, Sir. And gentlemen, I 17 provided a revised wording for Item 1.19 and laid them 18 up on your desk prior. It was this morning rather 19 than -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: Everybody's got it. 21 MR. REEVES: As you'll recall, the overall 22 property tax rate is .515 per $100 valuation. It's 23 broken down as maintenance and operations, .4263 per 24 $100 valuation; interest and sinking funds, .0564 per 25 $100 valuation; and the Lateral Roads fund, .0323 per 156 1 $100 valuation. 2 This tax rate is an increase over the 3 effective tax rate from -- for this year. Therefore, 4 they must be acknowledged and shown that the tax rate 5 will be increased by the wording that I have in the 6 paperwork there. I acknowledge the tax rates have not 7 changed, but when you calculate the effective tax rates 8 you throw out last year's tax rate. And when I say, 9 "throw it out," it means nothing with the calculation. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So the tax rate would 11 remain the same? 12 MR. REEVES: The tax rate is remaining the 13 same but it effectively has increased, Commissioner. 14 JUDGE KELLY: It raises more taxes for 15 maintenance and operations from last year's tax rate. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Okay. Well, I 17 would move -- 18 MR. REEVES: On -- if I could just a minute, 19 Commissioner. On the handout I gave you, the first part 20 is how the motion should be read. Then following the 21 record vote, the part in bold face print at the bottom 22 of the page must be read. And Ms. Dowdy, I'll give you 23 a copy. It needs to be placed in the Court Order with 24 that, if it's okay with you. 25 MS. DOWDY: I understand. 157 1 MR. REEVES: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. If I may, I'll 3 read what you provided. I move that the property tax 4 rate be increased by the adoption of a tax rate of 0.515 5 dollars which is effectively a 4.91 percent increase in 6 the tax rate and breaks down the tax rate as follows: 7 Maintenance and Operations, .4263 per $100 valuation; 8 Interest and Sinking Fund, .0564 per $100 valuation; 9 Lateral Roads, .0323 per $100 valuation. 10 And then this tax rate -- 11 MR. REEVES: No. They're -- they vote. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Yeah. That's my 13 motion. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion has been made by 15 Commissioner Moser, is there a second? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Commissioner Letz has 18 seconded. Is there any further discussion about this? 19 Okay. Then those in favor -- oh, record vote. 20 Precinct 1? Oh, wait. Precinct 4? 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 22 JUDGE KELLY: 3? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: 2? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 158 1 JUDGE KELLY: 1? 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 3 JUDGE KELLY: This gets you off the hook. 4 The County Judge votes yes, too. Five zero, unanimous. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now you read the other 6 part. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This tax rate will 8 raise more taxes for maintenance and operations than 9 last year's tax rate. 10 MR. REEVES: Thank you, gentlemen. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If you'll include that 12 into the record. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Bob. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Next item on the agenda is 16 1.20, which is a public hearing. So I'm going to call 17 the Kerr County Commissioners' Court into session for a 18 public hearing for revision of plat for Kerrville 19 Country Estates, Section 2, Lot 46. Is there anybody 20 here to speak with regard to this public hearing? There 21 being no one, then we will adjourn. 22 And I will call Item 1.21 consider, discuss, 23 and take appropriate action for the Court to approve a 24 Final Plat for De Leon Estates, Section Three. Mr. 25 Hastings. 159 1 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This subdivision 2 proposes three residential lots with access off of 3 Madrona in two acres, 3.3 and 4.7 acres, approximately. 4 They are using the model subdivision regulations because 5 there's two or more lots that are five acres or less 6 that are being created here. And there is an existing 7 water system. In fact, the water services have already 8 been installed so there's reference in our subdivision 9 regulations to Appendix M, which is a water agreement 10 that the developer will make sure that the water system 11 gets installed. It already exists, so we don't need 12 Appendix M for this particular one. 13 The County engineer requests that the Court 14 approve the final plat for De Leon Estates, Section 3, 15 in Precinct 1. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. A motion has been made 18 by Commissioner Belew. Is there a second? 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Seconded by Commissioner 21 Moser, to approve the Final Plat for De Leon Estates, 22 Section 3. Any further discussion? Those in favor 23 raise your hand. Unanimous. Five zero. 24 Item 1.22 consider, discuss and take 25 appropriate action for the Court to approve a Final Plat 160 1 for De Leon Estates, Section Four. Mr. Hastings. 2 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This is a 20-foot 3 acre tract that's being divided into four 5-plus acre 4 tracts. Private wells and OSSF will be used. There is 5 no floodplain. The ultimate plat was approved by 6 Commissioner Belew, Precinct 1. County Engineer 7 recommends the Court approve the Final Plat for De Leon 8 Estates. Section four. Precinct 1. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 12 Commissioner Belew, Seconded by Commissioner Harris, to 13 approve the Final Plat for De Leon Estates, Section 4. 14 Any further discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 15 Five zero. Unanimous. 16 1.23 consider, discuss, and take appropriate 17 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10 a.m. 18 on October 28, 2019, for a revision of plat for 19 Marymeade Subdivision, Section 1. 20 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This proposal 21 refixes four approximately 0.3 acre lots into two 22 approximately 0.6 acre lots. Lots 26, 27, part of 28, 23 and part of 29, are being revised into lots 26R and 29R. 24 These lots are in the floodplain and must meet 25 requirements for development within the floodplain. 161 1 County Engineer requests the Court approve 2 or set a public hearing for 10 a.m. on October 28, 2019. 3 For a revision of plat for Marymeade Subdivision, 4 Section 1, Lots 26, 27, 28 -- part of 28, and part of 5 29, Volume 3, Page 9, Precinct 4. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 9 Commissioner Harris and seconded by Commissioner Belew, 10 to approve a public hearing for the Marymeade 11 Subdivision, Section 1, Lots 26, 27, part of 28 and part 12 of 29, for October 28, 2019, at 10:00 a.m. Any further 13 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 14 Five zero. 15 1.24 consider, discuss and take appropriate 16 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 17 a.m. on October 28th, for the revision of plat for 18 Northwest Hills, Lots 133 and 134. 19 MR. HASTINGS: This proposal combines 20 Lots 133 and 134 into Lot 133R, 2.51 acres. County 21 Engineer requests the Court to set a public hearing for 22 10:00 a.m. on October 28th, 2019, for a revision of plat 23 for Northwest Hills, Lots 133 and 134, Volume 5, 24 Page 30, Precinct 1. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 162 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 3 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Moser, to 4 approve a public hearing for 10:00 a.m. on October 28 of 5 this year, for a revision of plat for Northwest Hills, 6 Lots 133 and 134. Any further discussion? Those in 7 favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 8 Item 1.25 consider, discuss and take 9 appropriate action for the Court to grant a variance to 10 the Manufactured Housing Rental Community Regulation 11 storm water detention calculation requirements. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. Kerr County 13 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Regulations 14 require developers to reduce storm water flows for 15 proposed conditions to a level that is less than 16 existing condition flows per Section 1.04.A.2, which is 17 shown on the packet that I sent you. And I'll read that 18 for you. 19 Drainage facilities shall be designed to 20 minimize any adverse impact to private property or 21 public right-of-way, either within or outside the 22 proposed manufactured home rental community. 23 Don't have a problem with that. 24 The post-construction runoff rate at the 25 point of flow leaving the new site shall be 50 or 75 or 163 1 80 percent of the pre-construction peak runoff rate for 2 the two, ten, and 100-year storms, respectively. 3 That's the one we have an issue with. 4 Provisions must be made assure that no 5 adverse impact is made to existing drainage systems 6 within public right-of-ways. 7 Again, I just read to you from 8 Section 1.04.A.2. of the Kerr County manufactured 9 housing rental community regulation. The issue has been 10 brought forward by John Hewitt, P.E., of Hewitt 11 Engineering as he is working on development plans for 12 the Meadowbrook Retirement Community in Precinct 4. It 13 would be more reasonable and would match industry 14 standard to require developers to reduce storm water 15 flows for proposed conditions to a level that is equal 16 to existing condition flows per the following proposed 17 language that is currently being used -- currently being 18 considered for the revised Kerr County Subdivision 19 Regulations, Section 5.06.C.3. 20 I'm not going to read it to you, but 21 basically we're saying your pre and your 22 post-development flows should match. You should have 23 some detention in there for a situation like this. 24 The County Engineer recommends that the 25 Court grant the variance to the Manufactured Housing 164 1 Rental Community Regulations storm water detention 2 calculation requirements, and instead require the 3 Meadowbrook Retirement Community to reduce storm water 4 flows for proposed conditions to a level that is equal 5 to existing conditions. This is Precinct 4. And 6 Mr. Hewitt is here if you would like -- if you have any 7 questions for him and his research and what he has 8 found. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So the variance request 10 is from less than the current flow to equal to the 11 current flow? 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 MR. HASTINGS: That's industry standard. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Okay. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Isn't that the Texas Water 17 Code Standard? The water diverse -- you take it from 18 what it was? 19 MR. HASTINGS: I think that you can infer 20 that from -- from that law. Yes, Sir. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, that's what I thought. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure where that 23 language came from even though I was on the court when 24 it came out. I know that Manufactured Homes are subject 25 to a lawsuit. And maybe this got changed somewhere 165 1 along the way. We probably need to go back and change 2 that paragraph. 3 MR. HASTINGS: And I had to put it as a part 4 of this, but in our subdivision workshops I definitely 5 want to get it fixed there too as part of our 6 subdivision rewrite. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't remember any of 8 this in the subdivision rules. 9 MR. HASTINGS: There's an appendix to the 10 subdivision regulations which is the Manufactured 11 Housing Rental Community, and it's kind of nestled in 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Yeah. 14 MR. HASTINGS: We have not looked at it yet. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That explains it. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But you're good with 17 it? 18 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. Absolutely. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and so the public 20 understands, the Texas Water Code says you can't divert 21 water. You can't go and make improvement and start 22 dumping more water on your neighbor. There's been a lot 23 of lawsuits in this state over doing that precise thing. 24 And so whatever the flow and discharge is initially is 25 what the Water Code requires it to be after you finish 166 1 your development. And that's all this is accomplishing, 2 isn't it? 3 MR. HEWITT: Correct. 4 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I think that's a good State 6 Law. We want to adopt it as a county policy. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. I move for 8 approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 11 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 12 approve the -- to grant a variance to the Manufactured 13 Housing Rental Community Regulations storm water 14 detention calculation requirements, as presented. Any 15 further discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 16 Unanimous, five zero. 17 Next item is 1.26 consider, discuss, and 18 take appropriate action for the Court to approve a 19 preliminary plat for Tortuga Arroyo Estates, formerly 20 known as Mision en Las Colinas. Charlie Hastings. 21 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This proposed 22 subdivision was formerly known as Mision en Las Colinas. 23 The concept plan was approved February 25th, 2019, by 24 order number 37324. This subdivision proposes eight 25 lots. Access to the lots will be off of a proposed 167 1 private paved country lane to be known as Snapper Lane. 2 Construction of the road and drainage began prior to the 3 approval of the concept plan, construction has since 4 ceased and a licensed professional engineer is working 5 to design the layout and drainage in accordance with 6 Kerr County Subdivision Regulations. Two low water 7 crossings are proposed on Snapper Lane that would result 8 in water depths of one foot during the 25-year storm. 9 This requires the consent of the Court per our 10 subdivision regulations. It is my understanding that 11 Upper Turtle Creek downstream from this would be closed 12 at this time of flooding while this road would only have 13 a foot or -- 14 (Phone ringing.) 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's an alarm. It says 16 it's time to quit. It's not a call. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MRS. STEBBINS: He's not moving very fast to 19 come get it, though. 20 JUDGE KELLY: You know, we might sell 21 tickets to watch that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not sure I want HIS 23 phone. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I'm sorry for the 25 interruption. Please continue. 168 1 MR. HASTINGS: That's okay. A similar low 2 water crossing was developed in Panther Creek about 3 three years ago and was approved by the Court. And it 4 makes -- it's common sense. Upper Turtle Creek Road has 5 a number of low water crossings that during storm events 6 you can't go across them. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Seven. 8 MR. HASTINGS: This subdivision is way in 9 the back. You have to go through six or seven of them 10 just to get to this subdivision. And they're -- they're 11 improving the new road that they're putting in. Instead 12 of having a low water crossing that would maybe have 13 four or five feet of water over the top of it, it's 14 going to have one foot. But if you went over it, you 15 couldn't use the next one at Upper Turtle Creek anyway. 16 So it makes sense to approve this and I recommend that 17 you do. 18 County Engineer requests that the Court 19 approve the preliminary plat for Tortuga Arroyo Estates, 20 Precinct 1, and also allow for the design and 21 construction of the low water crossings as presented. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 25 Commissioner Belew and seconded by Commissioner Harris, 169 1 to approve a preliminary plat for Tortuga Arroyo Estates 2 -- and what was the last part of that Charlie? 3 MR. HASTINGS: And also to allow for the 4 design and construction of the low water crossings as 5 presented. 6 JUDGE KELLY: As presented. 7 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, Sir. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any further discussion? 9 Okay. Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five 10 zero. 11 Next item on the agenda is 1.27 consider, 12 discuss and take appropriate action to approve Kerr 13 County Investment Policy. You've waited a long time for 14 this, Tracy. 15 MS. SOLDAN: Yes, sir. There were no 16 changes to the Public Funds Investment Act this year so 17 I don't have any changes to the Investment Policy 18 itself. The only changes that I'm requesting are on the 19 Broker/Dealer List on the last page. There is one 20 spelling correction and then adding Financial 21 Northeastern Companies to the broker list. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'm -- I move for 24 approval. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 170 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Motion has been made by 3 Commissioner Belew and seconded by Commissioner Harris, 4 to approve the Kerr County Investment Policy as 5 presented. Those minor corrections. Any other 6 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 7 Five zero. 8 Item 1.28 consider, discuss, and take 9 appropriate action to approve setting the cost for a 10 copy of the FY 2019/2020 Kerr County Budget. Ms. Dowdy. 11 MS. DOWDY: Would you like me to go down 12 there? 13 JUDGE KELLY: No, not -- 14 MS. DOWDY: It's really in the letter. The 15 fee for each copy of the Budget Book per fiscal year has 16 historically been $5.00 for each electronic copy, $40.00 17 for each plain copy, and if a bound version was 18 requested, the fee would then be the actual cost. Bound 19 Copies with the spiral binding will not be available 20 this year. So I request the Commissioners' Court set 21 the fee at $5.00 for each electronic copy and $40.00 for 22 each plain copy of this Budget Book for Fiscal Year 23 2019/2020. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is this same as last 25 year, you said? 171 1 MS. DOWDY: Yes, with the exception that 2 there will not be bound copies. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Move for 4 approval. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Motion has been made by 7 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew, to 8 approve setting the cost of the copy of the FY 2019/2020 9 Kerr County Budget as presented. Any further 10 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 11 five zero. 12 Item 1.29 consider, discuss and take 13 appropriate action to designate a day of the week on 14 which the Court shall convene in a regular term for FY 15 19/20 pursuant to Local Government Code. 16 Now, my boss tells me that this is approving 17 our every-other second and fourth Mondays of the month. 18 And we just have to adopt it every year. So this is 19 nothing new. Okay? 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 21 approval. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what's the motion, 23 second and fourth? 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second and fourth 172 1 Mondays each month is our -- are our regular terms. 2 JUDGE KELLY: No, this is for the -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is continuing -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: -- this is for the regular 6 Commissioners' Court meetings. Second, fourth Mondays 7 of every month. Motion's been made by Commissioner 8 Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser to approve it 9 just like we've been doing it. Those in favor raise 10 your hand. Five zero, unanimous. 11 1.30 consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 action regarding the schedule for upcoming subdivision 13 workshops. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure 15 I know what we're doing when. Did Charlie leave? 16 MRS. GRINSTEAD: He knows about the dates 17 that are in the backup. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all -- 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I already have them on 20 my calendar. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, and the reason I 22 brought it is that we talked originally with Chuck 23 Kimbrough now. And I know we have a conference call 24 that Charlie and Heather and I are going to have on 25 Wednesday we can just to try to line up. But I just 173 1 want to make sure that whenever we schedule something 2 with him, we'll probably -- I'll probably put in back on 3 the agenda after we visit with him. This was put on the 4 agenda probably before -- last week before we set up 5 that meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you want no action? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can pass on it today. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In case we have to tweak 11 the days or something. 12 JUDGE KELLY: But -- but just to clarify, 13 y'all are going to have a conference call next week? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, day after tomorrow. 15 This Wednesday. 16 JUDGE KELLY: This Wednesday? 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, Sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And then we're going to 19 schedule the workshops afterwards? 20 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably. Maybe. Yes. 22 I think we may want him up here at some point. But we 23 have some questions, preliminary questions to visit with 24 him about. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 174 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can narrow the 2 focus a little bit. 3 MRS. STEBBINS: So Charlie -- when we 4 visited on Friday, when we met with Charlie -- or 5 Thursday, whatever day that was -- Charlie said that we 6 have one to talk about environmental health issues or 7 OSSF related to these regulations on the 30th. And then 8 two weeks after that is another one and I'm not certain 9 what the topic is. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Water availability and lot 11 size. And then another one. 12 MRS. STEBBINS: So I think Charlie was ready 13 to go to have these conversations in order to move 14 forward and to adopting new regulations in November. 15 And so that if we need to get Mr. Kimbrough down here 16 for one of those and maybe alter what we're having a 17 conversation about on one of those workshop days we can 18 do that. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- I don't know what 20 you're thinking but from what little I talked to Chuck, 21 we're going to bring him in on these platting rules, 22 aren't we? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I mean that's 24 where -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: The 30 days or -- 175 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- one of these OSSF is 2 another key thing and that's the reason I put it on the 3 agenda. OSSF, how that's interpreted and done. Because 4 other counties are not doing it the way we are. And so 5 either other counties are not in compliance or we're -- 6 anyway, so I just wanted to visit with Chuck a little 7 bit. And now going to visit with him before next 8 Monday. 9 JUDGE KELLY: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And get some input from 11 him and we may have to -- after that we'll decide 12 whether Mondays going forward or not. And part of it is 13 I think there's a desire to save money and have Chuck 14 come down as little as possible, but there's also -- I 15 have a concern is I don't want to be the conduit. I 16 think Chuck needs to talk to the whole Court. So it's a 17 combination of trying to maximize those two things. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And from my conversations with 19 him and you, when we were in Austin a couple weeks ago, 20 we really need to hear what Chuck has to say. There are 21 some important issues that we need to -- so I -- I am 22 definitely in favor of having him come up and talk to us 23 in person at least once. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So I think we 25 need to -- I think we need to try and narrow the scope 176 1 of that so he's coming prepared, and that's the purpose 2 of the Wednesday call. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the -- October 7th, 4 that's the same time as the TAC conference down in 5 Galveston for Judges and Commissioners. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we can find the dates. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 JUDGE KELLY: But I -- I understand. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's wait. I mean -- 12 after Wednesday -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and we'll have a 15 workshop next week. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the exciting preview 17 coming attraction is that the developers were very well 18 represented in the legislature this past session and we 19 were not as well represented. 20 Next item on the agenda is 1.31 consider, 21 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 22 renovations to the Human Resources Department, at long 23 last. 24 MR. EVANS: Hi. Good afternoon, gentlemen. 25 I do have to use floor plans for the proposed HR. 177 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Shane. 2 MR. EVANS: All right. Well, there's going 3 to be a little bit of -- some changes. We will be -- 4 let me get to where I can see it. For the reception 5 area -- we will have a reception area. The wall where 6 the -- currently where the file storage room, we're 7 going to move that wall about two feet to get room for 8 the new HR assistant. The HR director's office area 9 will stay pretty much the same. We'll take out some of 10 the counters for -- to make room for the attendant 11 service area, starting with the demolition of the front 12 counter, and then remove and open up to make room for 13 the -- also build new office areas. 14 We will have to have electricians come in 15 and add computer drops and receptacles where needed. 16 And we'll also have to repaint most of the walls in 17 there so everything does match again. 18 With the projected start date of 19 October 7th, the -- during those two weeks the HR staff 20 will be in and out of the office, so there's not going 21 to be very many people in there. Just one. It's going 22 to be dusty and noisy and it's kind of hard to conduct 23 your business but -- however, we also made a -- we have 24 an office available in our custodial office area that 25 they can use that whenever needed. We'll set their 178 1 desks up and they can conduct their business in there 2 while we're remodeling their office. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long do you think 4 it'll take? 5 MR. EVANS: A minimum of two weeks. 6 Shouldn't take any longer than three. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the cost is in the 8 budget? 9 MR. EVANS: (Shaking head yes.) Just the 10 base materials and stuff is going to cost $1,500, you 11 know, the studs, the doors, the windows. My biggest 12 cost would be more likely the electrician. And that's 13 going to be double what I got for my material. 14 JUDGE KELLY: I stood down there a couple 15 weeks ago, Shane, with Cindy and Mary Lou, and Jennifer, 16 and kind of looked things over. That waiting area is 17 really large in that office. Do we need that large of a 18 waiting area? It's about a quarter of the space almost 19 in there. 20 MR. EVANS: Yeah. Well -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: And I know they've got those 22 -- they've got those built-in desks where the counter is 23 right now. I know we've got all of that. But I think 24 the consensus that I heard was that those were coming 25 out -- 179 1 MR. EVANS: Uh-huh. 2 JUDGE KELLY: -- and you're reconfiguring 3 the access back to the HR Department and the hallway 4 back to the break room? 5 MR. EVANS: Yes. 6 JUDGE KELLY: But that's still one of the 7 biggest -- you know, that's -- that's the second largest 8 room in that whole suite is just the waiting room. How 9 many people do we normally have in the waiting room? 10 MR. EVANS: Not that many. No, the actual 11 dimensions of that, it's longer than it is wide. It's 12 only going to be eight -- almost eight and a half feet 13 wide. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 15 MR. EVANS: So, I mean, it's really -- it's 16 a lot longer than it is wide. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's going to be 18 smaller. You're -- you're cutting it back quite a bit? 19 MR. EVANS: Well, yeah. It's going to be 20 16 foot, seven feet in length, you know, the -- by eight 21 and a half feet wide. So that -- that's only -- it's 22 really not that wide. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And then the HR system is 24 going back into the -- 25 MR. EVANS: To where the -- where it was at, 180 1 yeah. We're going to have to move that wall out to make 2 that work, to give her the room she needs. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And then that -- she will have 4 the window for the waiting room? 5 MR. EVANS: Yes. Also, you know, because, 6 you know, if the assistant is out for whatever reason, 7 the Indigent Services will also have a window in her 8 office. So, you know, they'll -- everybody will be -- 9 you know, you can see the people coming and going as 10 needed. 11 JUDGE KELLY: But it all will be HIPAA 12 compliant for confidentiality? 13 MR. EVANS: Yes, Sir. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 15 MR. EVANS: And we will insulate the walls 16 and make it, you know -- I mean, normal talking you 17 won't hear anything. But if they start screaming, I 18 can't help that. I won't be able to stop that. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'm just -- I'm just 20 wondering about the windows. 21 MR. EVANS: Right. 22 JUDGE KELLY: I know -- I know we want a 23 window because you want to be able to see the people 24 come in. Does that give us sufficient HIPAA privacy? 25 MR. EVANS: I think it would. Where the 181 1 victim services is at, you really -- when they're in 2 there talking in a normal room, you don't really hear 3 them either. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's a window that 5 stays -- it's just a pane of glass -- 6 MRS. DOSS: We can have -- we do have 7 blinds. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- So you can see 9 somebody come in. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, crime victims, they 11 have -- they have blinds on their windows. 12 MR. EVANS: Yes. And that -- that's -- it's 13 not that hard to put blinds on there. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I know you want to be 15 able to see, but when people walk in, if you see 16 somebody sitting in the room talking to indigent 17 healthcare, okay, then you're going to know they're 18 indigent. 19 MRS. DOSS: Right. We -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: If you see them sitting -- I'm 21 just saying. If you see somebody you know sitting over 22 there talking to the HR Assistant, you're going to know 23 that they're -- 24 MR. EVANS: Right. I mean, we can -- 25 MRS. DOSS: Well, if we have visitors, we'll 182 1 close the blinds. 2 MR. EVANS: Yeah. I mean, the blinds are 3 50 bucks, you know, if you buy some really expensive 4 ones. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the -- I'm -- I was 6 fussing about this because I really want that office to 7 get HIPAA compliant. I just want to make sure we are 8 going to be HIPAA compliant with all regards. Okay. 9 I'm seeing a head nod. 10 Deb, let the record reflect she nodded her 11 head yes. 12 (Mrs. Doss nodding head yes.) 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Which direction is she 14 nodding? 15 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: North and south. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion 19 about this? 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. It looks good. 21 Can I buy an ad on the curtain? 22 JUDGE KELLY: Is there a motion? 23 (Cell phone ringing.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need a 25 motion, do we? 183 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: God, I had this thing 2 turned off. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, yeah. This is just 4 information. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: We already budgeted it. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I will say for the 8 record, I'm really happy to see this moving along. 9 JUDGE KELLY: 1.32 consider, discuss and 10 take appropriate action to approve the Interlocal 11 Agreement between the Upper Guadalupe River Authority 12 (UGRA) and Kerr County for the 2020 Fiscal Year Feral 13 Hog Abatement Program. At last. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: At last. Yes. We 15 need to continue this. I'm going to their meeting this 16 Wednesday. That's their meeting meaning UGRA. And, you 17 know, they're putting more money forward for this and so 18 are we. And I have also -- I think I told y'all last 19 meeting or -- or two Mondays ago that I put in for a 20 grant. We did submit that and it's hurry up and wait to 21 see if we get that. I'm hoping if we get that, that 22 it'll -- whatever monies we get out of that will offset 23 the County putting any money in and also cut into what 24 they put in as being UGRA. 25 So I move to approve the Interlocal 184 1 Agreement between Upper Guadalupe River Authority and 2 Kerr County for the 2020 Fiscal Year Feral Hog Abatement 3 Program. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 5 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 6 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew, to 7 approve the Interlocal Agreement with UGRA and Kerr 8 County on the Feral Hog Abatement Program. And just 9 FYI, we've had a number of recent dealings back and 10 forth between the County and the UGRA and I have to tell 11 you that we have an excellent relationship right now. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, without a doubt. 13 JUDGE KELLY: It's mutually beneficial. The 14 way government's supposed to work. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's good because 16 they're -- we have the same exact tax base. So it 17 works. If we can save money, we're saving money for the 18 taxpayers. 19 JUDGE KELLY: And we both agree that the 20 river is our biggest resource in this County. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Those in favor raise 23 your hand. Unanimous. Five zero. 24 1.33 Discuss -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Hold on. Pass. 185 1 JUDGE KELLY: Pass? Okay. Drum roll. At 2 12 minutes to one o'clock, Consultation with attorney. 3 Do we have an Executive Session today? 4 MRS. STEBBINS: If we want to. If y'all 5 want to stay for another 15 minutes and talk to me, you 6 can. If not, it's nothing pressing and we can talk 7 about it at your next regularly scheduled meeting. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- I will defer to my 9 fellow Commissioners because this has been a long 10 morning. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's just wait. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, I mean if it's 13 not pressing. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: It's not pressing. 15 JUDGE KELLY: We'll pass that. Let's go 16 over and start paying the bills. Well, I've got to do 17 information agenda. Department heads, you got anything 18 you need to share? Elected official, you have anything 19 you need to share. Liaison Commissioners, you have 20 anything you need to share that we haven't already 21 talked about? Okay. Then the -- well, we don't have 22 anything else, do we? 23 MRS. STEBBINS: Other than pay bills, we 24 don't. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Pay bills? 186 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You have to pay bills. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay, let's pay bills. 3 MR. ROBLES: Okay. The first ones for the 4 Court to consider are Kerr County $125,549.29. Adult 5 Probation, $18,926.85. Airport, $2,406.55. Fund 78, 6 $422.73. And Fund 95, $414.29. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 10 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 11 approve paying the bills. Any discussion? Those in 12 favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 13 Budget amendments. 14 MR. ROBLES: I've got a few of them. 15 There's 36. The first one is Auditor certifying new 16 revenue for the airport. Adjustments No. 2 through 14 17 are department requested budget adjustments. These are 18 line item transfers. Adjustments No. 17, 20 and 24 are 19 adjustments for court appointed attorneys. And all 20 other adjustments are payroll related adjustments, 21 making small adjustments at the end of the year to make 22 sure insurance and FICA and retirement are all going to 23 be covered. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the 187 1 budget amendment as presented. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 4 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris, to 5 approve the budget amendments as presented. Any further 6 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Five zero, 7 unanimous. 8 Late bills. 9 MR. ROBLES: Yes, we do have three. These 10 are all for the District Clerk. They're meals per diem 11 expenses for an upcoming conference. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move we pay the late 13 bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Been moved by 17 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz, to 18 pay the late bills. All in favor raise your hand. Five 19 zero, unanimous. 20 Monthly reports. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Monthly reports. 22 Okay. August, 2019 County Clerk's Office, Jackie "JD" 23 Dowdy. August, 2019 fines, judgments and jury fees 24 collected by Justice 4, Precinct 4, Bill Ragsdale, and 25 Kerr County Portfolio Summary for April 1st, 2019 188 1 through June 30th, 2019, and payroll for month ending 2 August, 2019. County Treasurer, Tracy Soldan. I move 3 for approval. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Been a motion by Commissioner 6 Harris to approve the report, seconded by Commissioner 7 Letz. Those in favor raise your hand. Okay. 8 Auditor report. 9 MR. ROBLES: There are none. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Court orders. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The court orders from 12 our September 16th meeting. Court orders 37704 through 13 37708, they all look good. I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Three seconds. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second, third, and 19 fourth. 20 JUDGE KELLY: It's been moved by 21 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 22 approve the orders as presented. Those in favor raise 23 your hand. Five zero, unanimous. Is there any other 24 business before the Court today? Thank you for your 25 endurance and patience. 189 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Thank you for your hard work 2 for the budget. We do appreciate it. 3 JUDGE KELLY: We are adjourned. 4 * * * * * * 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 190 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify that 6 the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise a 7 true and correct transcription of the proceedings had in 8 the above-entitled Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 25th day of October, A.D., 10 2019. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2020 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25