1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, July 13, 2020 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 (Via phone.) DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioners' Comments. 7 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 8 action regarding update, facility use and 5 other matters related to COVID-19. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action to extend the Local State of 7 Disaster Due to a Public Health and Economic Emergency Proclamation that was 8 signed by Judge Kelly on March 24, 2020, and "extended until terminated by 9 order of the Kerr County Commissioners' Court" on March 30, 2020. 10 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 11 action to close the Hill Country Youth Event Center (HCYEC) for all events except 12 for health and safety, or governmental functions. 13 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 49 14 action regarding the tax rate increases for Kerr County properties including 15 agriculture, residential and commercial properties. 16 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 85 17 action for the Court to waive platting oversight and approval of the City of 18 Kerrville for the revision of plat for Kerrville South Ranches No. One, Lot 25, 19 Volume 3, Page 40. (Vote only.) 20 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 85 action for the Court to set a public 21 hearing for 10:00 a.m. on August 24, 2020 for a revision of plat for Brown Acres, 22 Block 1, Lots 1 and 2, Volume 7, Page 151. 23 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 86 action to set a public hearing for August 24 24 at 10:00 a.m. to abandon, vacate and discontinue all of Lange Lane E., 25 approximately 1.02 miles. 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 86 action to rescind Court Order No. 38161 4 regarding the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) County Transportation 5 Infrastructure Fund (CTIF) Grant Award. 6 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 87 action to set a public hearing on August 7 13th at 10:00 a.m. to be held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County 8 Courthouse, 700 Main Street, Kerrville, Texas for the purpose of presenting the 9 Kerr County District Court Records and Archive Plan for fiscal year 2020-2021. 10 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 88 11 action to accept recent donations from three citizens, and multiple items from 12 Kendall County Animal Services. 13 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 89 action to purchase handheld electrostatic 14 disinfecting sprayers. 15 1.14 Presentation from the Kerr Central 96 Appraisal District representatives 16 regarding appraised values in Kerr County. 17 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 154 action to approve the Videomagistrate 18 Service Agreement. 19 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 160 action regarding making masks mandatory 20 in all buildings in Kerr County, as well as outdoor as appropriate, per Governor 21 Abbott's Executive Order. 22 2.1 Pay bills. 185 23 2.2 Budget Amendments. 185 24 2.3 Late Bills. 186 25 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 186 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Adjournment. 188 4 *** Reporter's Certificate. 189 5 * * * * * * 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Will y'all join 2 me in prayer. I thought you'd already done that. 3 JUDGE KELLY: No. It's Monday, July 13th, 4 2020, nine o'clock in the morning, and Commissioners' 5 Court is now in session. Please stand for the prayer 6 and pledge by Commissioner Belew. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All right. 8 (Prayer and Pledge.) 9 JUDGE KELLY: Be seated. We have an action 10 packed day so let's get started. First item on the 11 agenda is public input. And this is for people to 12 address the Court on a topic that is not on the agenda. 13 Do we have any public input? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do you want to have 15 them call in on your phone then? 16 JUDGE KELLY: If you call in on the phone, 17 which is (830) 792-6161, I have it here at the bench. 18 There being no public input, let's go to Commissioners' 19 Comments. Do you have anything to say to us this 20 morning? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I do. The petition 22 drive in Precinct 2 for alcoholic beverage has met the 23 goal. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we got over 2000 -- 6 1 the requirement is 2016. It's unofficial, but they've 2 done a check on all of the voter registration so it 3 looks like it's there. So we'll continue the drive 4 between now and Friday when it has to be turned in to 5 the election folks. And so, to get additional number of 6 people, additional signatures on the petition just to 7 make sure. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What was the number 9 again? 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 2016 -- 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That you got? 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- is required. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, I know it's 14 required. But -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: So it's on the ballot. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. No. The next step 17 is then the petitions are given to Bob Reeves and his 18 election folks, they have 30 days -- required 30 days to 19 verify, then he comes back to Commissioners' Court and 20 Commissioners' Court issues an order for it to be put on 21 the -- if they're all -- if the required votes are there 22 or the signatures are there, then Commissioners' Court 23 orders it to be put on the ballot for November 30th. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Good. Any other 25 Commissioners' Comments? 7 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. It's getting 2 dry. Real dry. And I'm going -- I've got something to 3 say that's going to go over precinct lines. We had some 4 really good information last week or I got an 5 announcement that Texas FFA -- there's over 120,000 kids 6 in Texas in the FFA. Last week Blake Mills from Center 7 Point FFA was elected President of that organization. 8 And that -- that is huge. Our whole County can be proud 9 of that accomplishment. That's not easy. I've been 10 around these kids. And they're top notch. And when you 11 get up to that level, they are extremely good. 12 So real proud of Blake Mills. The whole 13 County can be -- appreciate that. And he's going to 14 have a heck of a year. He's going to travel. He's 15 going to -- those that are elected President forego 16 their first year of college, they travel around the 17 State speaking to three or four FFA chapters each day. 18 And it's action packed. So proud of him. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Congratulations. Good. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One other thing, if I 21 may, Judge. There's -- Center Point Volunteer Fire 22 Departments had a meeting last Saturday to discuss 23 emergency service district. It was there just to inform 24 the public and the attendees and they probably had 70 to 25 80 people there, which was a good sign. So Bob Reeves 8 1 showed up and talked about emergency services. Good 2 turnout for that so they are at least seriously 3 considered. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Good. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioner Belew. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I -- I don't really 8 have a lot. I want to remind everybody to stay hydrated 9 and stay under a shade tree or stay indoors if you can 10 today because we've got a heat wave. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Stay in the bunkers. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Stay in the 13 bunkers. 14 JUDGE KELLY: It was 84 degrees when I got 15 out of the truck this morning already. Okay. Let's go 16 to agenda item 1.1. Dub Thomas. Consider, discuss and 17 take appropriate action regarding the update, facility 18 use and matters related to COVID-19. 19 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Judge. Good 20 morning, Commissioners. Hope y'all had a good weekend. 21 The COVID-19 report for today. This is week number 19. 22 DSHS does not update their information over the weekend 23 so we -- I won't have the weekend numbers until later on 24 this afternoon. But as of Friday afternoon, Kerr County 25 stood at 161 total active cases, 247 total, 84 9 1 recovered, and two fatalities. And Peterson Regional 2 currently has seven individuals in the hospital. Total 3 tests that we've run in the County, I've got 4,156 there 4 but that's not counting Franklin Clinic, any other local 5 physicians in our part of the Peterson -- Peterson 6 Health. I think our number's closer to probably about 7 4,400 total tests countywide. 8 Some of the transmission statistics. Still 9 for the first 90 cases that have been investigated by 10 DSHS, two traveled outside of Texas, two traveled 11 outside of Kerr County but within the State, eight are 12 unknown, 23 household spread, 23 community spread, 21 13 close contact, three have been lost to follow-up, and 14 eight are work place exposure here in Kerr County. 15 Some of our age statistics. We have had 16 fortunately nobody younger than one year old, 1-9 we've 17 had six, 10-19 is five, 23 for 20-29 years old, 23 for 18 30-39, 13 for 40 to 49. 23, including one fatality, for 19 50-59 years old, 10 for 60-64, four for 65-69, four from 20 70-74, one fatality of four at 75-79 years old, and four 21 at 80 years and older. So if you take a look at that, 22 if you look at the 20 to 60, there's the majority of 23 where all of our cases are if we coming from the age 24 class. 25 DSHS continues to change their reporting 10 1 methods as far as testing goes and there's some 2 information coming out on that this week and I'm going 3 to try and keep y'all updated with that as well. 4 Testing, our last testing was done by the 5 Texas Military Forces on June 30th. We did a total of 6 548 tests, only 370 of those were Kerr County residents. 7 And if you'll skip back to the next page, I've got the 8 breakdown on what DSHS sent me for those cases. So we 9 had cases as far out as Los Angeles, Cameron, Kimble, 10 St. Lucy, Camp Eddy, Kasahu Parish, Wood and Park, 11 wherever those locations are. So folks over here in 12 Kerr County decided to get tested that day, free testing 13 at -- for the Texas Military Forces. We are doing 14 testing again tomorrow. Testing will be at the Doyle 15 Community Center starting at eight o'clock. We've sent 16 out a couple of press releases for how to register for 17 that. They're going to be registering 250 online and 18 you have to have a confirmation number or you won't be 19 able to get tested. And that's going to be a cheek 20 swab, it's not going to be the nasopharyngeal test, so 21 we should be able to get them through pretty quick. 22 Let's see. Some of our other numbers. 23 Total testing, TRMC has done 2,689 tests. Texas 24 Military Forces, 792. Nursing homes, 675. Total 25 positive COVID, 159. That's incorrect. It should be 11 1 167 -- 161. Still we got about a 3.87 percent infection 2 rate of those folks -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But -- but that's out 4 of Peterson. 5 MR. THOMAS: That's Peterson, Texas Military 6 Forces, and nursing home tests that we've done here. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, all -- all of 8 those. Okay. 9 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. All of it. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, are those all the 11 same tests? 12 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. Those are all the 13 nasopharyngeal test, yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, Dub, one quick 15 question. When someone wants to be tested, then they 16 provide information and then they get a appointment or a 17 number or something like that so that there's a record 18 of them wanting to be tested. Is that correct? 19 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. Whoever they're 20 registered with. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Just like that 250 23 tomorrow. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 25 MR. THOMAS: Yeah. The 250 tomorrow, there 12 1 will be a confirmation number and all that stuff. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Which -- go ahead. 4 MR. THOMAS: Yeah, the State has contracted 5 with a -- a contractor basically, Curative Incorporated, 6 and they're going to be doing the testing from now on. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Dub, I was told 9 yesterday that two people signed up to get the test, 10 weren't able to take it and received something in the 11 mail saying they were positive. Is there -- is that 12 possible? Can you sign up and get on a registry to have 13 the test on a certain day and then cancel or not -- 14 MR. THOMAS: I've seen -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- show up and -- 16 MR. THOMAS: -- that. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- still get something 18 in the mail? 19 MR. THOMAS: I don't have a clue. I've seen 20 that on social media posted and not just for Kerr County 21 but I've seen it posted in other places. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I've -- 23 MR. THOMAS: I don't know if it's just one 24 that's floating around or -- 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I -- I got a 13 1 call yesterday, and fairly reliable source, about it 2 here in the County. You know, I've seen it on social 3 media and you can't prove it and, you know, who knows. 4 But I heard about it here. Probably -- maybe the same 5 one. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is a reliable 7 source, too. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Mine was, too. And -- 9 and it -- I was going to ask it if you weren't going to 10 ask it, if you had any people like that -- 11 MR. THOMAS: Nobody has -- 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- that's -- you know, 13 for whatever reason -- I don't remember if the line was 14 too long, they got hot and didn't want to wait any 15 longer and they went home and boom, magically a couple 16 days later they're -- they get some confirmation that 17 they're -- they're positive. And, you know, I -- I hope 18 that's not true. But if it is, good grief. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, my question is, 20 is there a scenario by which that can happen? How does 21 the testing work? 22 MR. THOMAS: Well, when they -- when they 23 come into the mobile testing, they're registered right 24 then. Or at least that's the way it was working with 25 the walk-up. They register right then and they go in 14 1 and get their test and then they're out the door. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what I thought. 3 So is there a possibility to go online and register and 4 then not take the test or is this even a possible 5 outcome? 6 MR. THOMAS: I guess anything's possible. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: See, I never saw any 9 social media about it. I had somebody directly tell me. 10 MR. THOMAS: Yeah, I seen it a couple times 11 on Facebook. Where it was posted for Kerr County and 12 then -- I had somebody post it, a friend of mine posted 13 it from someplace, another county clean on the other 14 side of Texas. So it's possible. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, Rusty's back 16 there. Rusty, have you heard anything on that? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I've seen -- 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- the same thing 20 posted on social media but I hadn't heard anything 21 directly from anybody that actually had it happen to 22 them. I haven't seen it. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, just calling 24 somebody I -- I think a lot of. Yeah. So, you know, I 25 don't want to start rumors, but -- 15 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, when you hear 2 that kind of stuff from somebody you know who has been 3 truthful and is trustworthy, then it -- you need to 4 investigate it. 5 MR. THOMAS: Yeah, and then we've had to 6 talk to the DSHS and whoever it was that's doing the 7 testing, Texas Military Forces. Well, Texas Military 8 Forces won't be doing it anymore but Curative will be. 9 So maybe we'll -- 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I -- I trust our 11 people, local people and stuff, but -- 12 MR. THOMAS: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- that stuff is all 14 for not and -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 16 MR. THOMAS: Some of the other numbers about 17 COVID-19 spreading in Texas over the weekend. It was 18 total positive cases of 250,462. Total deaths for Texas 19 was 3,112. Total recovered is 127,880. Total tests for 20 statewide is 2.7 million. Of that, 2.4 million have 21 been the viral test, meaning the nasopharyngeal swab. 22 The others are the antibody tests which was 214,000. 23 Our surrounding counties, Kendall County is 24 at 119. Medina 197 with three fatalities. Gillespie at 25 69 cases. Bandera 41. Kimble 9. And Real County at 16 1 four. And there's still only 247 counties that have 2 positive COVID-19 cases. 3 The DSHS Region 8 numbers of which we're a 4 part of, active cases is 15,744 so far. Recovered are 5 9,870. Total of 230 deaths. And they still have 1,395 6 cases pending investigation. So that's how far behind 7 DSHS is still. But they're trying to work up and -- and 8 catch up. Any questions on the numbers or anything? 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Appreciate you, Dub. 11 MR. THOMAS: No more breaking news from the 12 Governor's office. So -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Dub, one thing that I would -- 14 I'd really like to see next week is if you could go back 15 and kind of graph how we -- or since May 1 what we've 16 done by week, so we can kind of see the numbers. 17 Because we know that there's been a sharp spike here 18 recently. Just trying to get a visual so I can -- we 19 can gauge where we are with this coronavirus. 20 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE KELLY: I'd appreciate it. 22 MR. THOMAS: I can do that. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Anything else for Dub Thomas? 24 As always, thank you for your good work. 25 MR. THOMAS: I appreciate it. Y'all have a 17 1 good week. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Next item on the agenda 3 is 1.2 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 4 regarding the Local State of Disaster Due to a Public 5 Health and Economic Emergency Proclamation that was 6 signed by me on March the 24th and extended until 7 terminated by the Kerr County Commissioners' Court on 8 March 30th. 9 We talk about this every week. Does anybody 10 want to make a motion to terminate the State of 11 Disaster? 12 Okay, since there's no motion, we'll move on 13 to item 1.3. Sheriff, let me hand you -- these are the 14 people that want to speak on item 1.3. Kind of get you 15 started. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Do we want to announce 17 -- if someone wrote theirs and we -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: Here, I'll read them off. In 19 this order: Amber Burress, McKenna Hall, Nathanael 20 Hall, Roger Hall, Terri Hall, Tara Lockwood, Nayelie 21 Swicker -- I don't know. Angela Fiedler. Those are the 22 ones who have asked to address the Court. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: In that order, guys. 24 JUDGE KELLY: In that order. So let me go 25 ahead and call it. 18 1 1.3 consider, discuss and take appropriate 2 action to close the Hill Country Youth Event Center for 3 all events except for health and safety or governmental 4 functions. 5 I guess we need to probably start with our 6 County Attorney. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE KELLY: The Sheriff and the County 9 Attorney and I have talked about this last week. We 10 have some major events coming up at the Youth Center 11 that are truly powder kegs. And we're concerned about 12 what to do. And it was -- it was complicated when I 13 talked to the County Attorney. 14 We've been talking to TAC, the Texas 15 Association of Counties, to find out that we are in 16 jeopardy of not having insurance coverage depending on 17 the actions that we take. So with that, I'm going to 18 turn -- turn it over to Mrs. Stebbins. 19 MRS. STEBBINS: When I talked to TAC last 20 week related to face coverings and other COVID issues, 21 one of -- they had not had to address a plan for 22 something like this yet and were just kind of waiting 23 for something to come up. But depending on the Court's 24 actions and Elected Officials' actions, coverage could 25 be questionable for a claim that -- well, it's probably 19 1 a long shot. Someone saying that they contracted COVID 2 from, you know, the courthouse because the office is 3 open and they're not complying with an order, that it's 4 -- that causation is -- will be hard to prove but it's 5 possible that TAC insurance wouldn't cover us for that 6 type of claim if it was presented. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and let me -- let me 8 weigh in. And I appreciate you staying here to help us 9 with this today. 10 As a 45-year practicing attorney and old 11 coverage lawyer, I appreciate TAC's candidness with us. 12 When it comes to insurance, negligent acts are covered, 13 mistakes are covered; intentional acts are not. And if 14 we intentionally do not follow the Governor's order, 15 there's a question being posed at the highest levels in 16 the state right now, legally, whether or not the 17 insurance coverage would be in effect or not. Because 18 we have intentionally disregarded an order that we were 19 supposed to do. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How would we be doing 21 that? 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it has to do with the 23 masks. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If you have the safety 25 requirements in place that have been demanded by the 20 1 Governor, then you should be absolved of any kind of 2 claim. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Like right now, we're 4 six feet apart. I've got mine. If I walk through the 5 crowd, I'm going to put it on. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All you've gotta do is 8 cover it. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Go through the protocol 10 and you're covered. That's what he demanded and we do 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But it -- but it comes 13 down to two things. Number one is insurance. And the 14 other was the Governor's orders. Okay. The Governor's 15 order, correct me if I'm wrong, said indoor gatherings, 16 okay, let's let the Youth Center be an indoor gathering, 17 50 percent of the occupants safely can be there. 50 18 percent, okay. Let's just say that that facility can 19 hold 300 people. Well, it can hold a lot more than that 20 safely. Okay, 50 percent. So -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: We -- we've determined the 22 capacity to be 500. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, okay. Five -- 24 let's use 500 then. So that says 250 can be there. 25 JUDGE KELLY: No, excuse me. I -- I 21 1 misspoke. One thousand. Five hundred is half. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Five -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The Fire Marshal -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. A thousand 5 people. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- said a thousand. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So 500 can be there 8 according to the Governor's orders. Okay. Now, the 9 next question is, it's a County facility, okay. So are 10 we liable if we follow the Governor's order, okay, and 11 let people accumulate there or have a meeting there of 12 up to 500 people? 13 JUDGE KELLY: This is not about liability. 14 This is about coverage. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Well, okay. But 16 -- okay. So we're -- but -- let's just -- okay. 17 Coverage then rather than liability. Okay, coverage. 18 Okay, so insurance coverage. So we've got -- we're 19 saying -- we're adhering to the Governor's orders. 20 Okay. But we're also listening to TAC about coverage. 21 So two -- two separate things. The Governor says it's 22 okay, TAC says we don't know. Is that fair? 23 MRS. STEBBINS: That's fair. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So this is TAC -- 22 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So how do we -- how do 2 we make a decision if -- if we follow the Governor's 3 order and TAC says we don't know? 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are they saying they 5 don't think the Governor's right? 6 MRS. STEBBINS: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, then what are 8 they saying? 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That they don't know. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: My specific question to them 11 was related to willful disregard to the Governor's order 12 in wearing masks in a public place -- in public spaces, 13 in County facilities, particularly. And willful 14 disregard of that order would bring into question the 15 coverage. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we wouldn't be 17 disregarding if -- if 500 people are there. 18 JUDGE KELLY: If they're six feet apart and 19 they wear a mask. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Right. That's -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, you don't have to 22 wear a mask indoors. It says -- 23 MRS. STEBBINS: There's public spaces -- 24 (Talking over.) 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Six feet apart or -- or 23 1 the mask. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 3 MRS. STEBBINS: I think that -- I think 4 they're applying it to public spaces. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm sorry. What do 6 you -- 7 MRS. STEBBINS: But if you're -- I think it 8 applies to public spaces -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't see an issue. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: -- whether you're six feet 11 apart or not. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, how is there an 13 issue? Is this just -- 14 MRS. STEBBINS: This is -- okay. Well, the 15 Governor has said you can have the 50 percent there. 16 And complying with that is -- is reasonable. I think 17 that there is -- the question came up because we talked 18 about what's responsible. And having 500 people gather 19 where they will be, at some of these events, some of 20 them will be parties, where they'll be drinking and 21 eating, and not wearing their masks, and just people 22 coming from different communities into our community, 23 with 500 people gathering whether that's responsible or 24 not. I think that's -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't think it's 24 1 about responsibility. It's about what's legal or what 2 -- what the existing order was. 3 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, that's what their 4 conversation was, what's responsible here. And that's 5 how we got into the -- that's why when I talked to them 6 about -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But that's -- that's 8 not how you determine these things. You're a lawyer, 9 you know that. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: I am. And I'm not here to 11 tell you what's responsible or not, that's up to y'all. 12 I'm just here to tell you what TAC said to me when I 13 asked them about the mask and about the possibility of 14 coverage. And we have to think about all of that if we 15 want to have things taken care of by our insurance 16 provider. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me -- 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Y'all -- I can be done 19 standing up here in front of y'all now and y'all can 20 talk about what's responsible. 21 (Talking over.) 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask another 23 question. This -- this is going to be to the Sheriff. 24 Let's -- let's say -- let's say that we follow the 25 Governor's order that we keep it to 500 or less, we 25 1 do -- we tell the people that they have to have social 2 distancing, six feet, wear a mask or not wear a mask, 3 whatever the Governor says. Let's say we do that. My 4 question is, how do we enforce that? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You asking me? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's unenforceable. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. All right. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't do it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So then it -- it goes 11 back to -- so we go back to, we follow the Governor's 12 order, TAC says we don't know, okay. We let 500 people 13 in, some people don't socially distance or don't wear 14 their mask or whatever they're supposed to do but we 15 don't enforce it. So it's kind of a -- it's kind of 16 very confusing to me. I -- you know, I'm not in favor 17 of mandating something we don't know what the hell we're 18 talking about. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that's already 20 happened. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, we haven't. We 22 haven't mandated -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, no. We haven't. 24 The Governor has. The Governor has mandated something 25 that people don't even understand. 26 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm talking about us. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm talking about us. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I can tell you 5 my theory on insurance is it's a hell of a lot easier to 6 buy insurance then it is to get them to pay up. And I 7 don't care what kind of insurance it is. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're talking about 9 mandating. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I know. But 11 we're also talking about where our insurance comes from 12 and the possibilities. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So, ultimately, this is 14 about insurance. And you've got to keep it 15 distinguished between coverage and liability. What did 16 you mean by that? 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Having a policy at all 19 versus paying it off? 20 JUDGE KELLY: -- to -- to establish 21 liability, you're going to have to prove, number one, 22 that we had a duty, that we breached that duty, and that 23 that proximately caused somebody's injury. Okay. It's 24 the causation. When Miss Stebbins talks about it's 25 going to be pretty hard to prove that what we did cause 27 1 somebody to get COVID, that's going to be a causation so 2 that goes to liability. What we're looking at in 3 insurance is, are they going to pay for our defense or 4 are we going to have to come out of pocket and pay for 5 our defense? 6 Because what we're looking at -- let's -- 7 let's just be specific. We're talking about a major 8 social event. Five hundred people are anticipated to 9 attend. The Sheriff's office has already declined to 10 provide security for this event because it's that 11 unruly. Okay. It is a quinceanera and they're going to 12 be -- they're going to start about 5:00, it goes to, 13 what, midnight, one o'clock? 14 MRS. STEBBINS: I think one o'clock in the 15 morning is -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: One o'clock in the morning. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: -- what Jake said. 18 JUDGE KELLY: There will be alcohol 19 involved. There will be bands. There will be dancing. 20 There will be eating and drinking. And you don't have 21 to wear your mask if you're eating and drinking. So 22 you're going to have all these people and -- and we know 23 what that's going to look like. Is that a risk that the 24 County is willing to take and possibly not be insured 25 for? 28 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I -- I think we've got 2 a lot of people wanting to talk about this and then 3 we're going to have to wrap up and have our -- their 4 comments. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: If I can add one -- one 6 thing that was a -- sort of a creative solution that I 7 talked to Commissioner Letz with on Friday, he said what 8 if we modify for now what types of events and limit it 9 by number and make sure that they're not serving alcohol 10 at the event. That the Governor has found it fit to 11 close bars, then why don't we follow suit, while not 12 required, and say okay, if you're going to have alcohol 13 served -- well, you can't have alcohol served at your 14 event, and the event can be limited by a certain number. 15 So you -- you have -- you can make a 16 decision and say we're not going to have any events 17 there now or you can make a decision that gives you some 18 room, minus alcohol, limited to a number of people. And 19 that may be an inflexible number for some events. You 20 know, they may be at 150 and you say 100, but you have 21 to -- you have to have -- it has to be something or 22 nothing. It's up to you. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I -- I have a 24 problem with -- with the ambiguity of the thing. We had 25 a gun show out there. I don't know how many hundreds of 29 1 people were there. We had a rodeo out there. I don't 2 know how many hundreds of people -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Two nights of rodeo. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Huh? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Two nights of rodeo. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We had hundreds of 7 people there. So we're supposed to limit it to ten 8 outside? 9 JUDGE KELLY: No. Rodeos and equestrian 10 events are exempted by the Governor. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And sporting events, 13 right? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 15 JUDGE KELLY: But that's how -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. So that 17 was exempt. So the gun show we had hundreds of people 18 there. So we -- we didn't do anything about that. So 19 it's -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And why is that? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Because, you know, we 22 -- we can't have these -- I think we oughta be 23 consistent. Okay. I think we oughta be consistent what 24 the Governor says and to limit us to 500 is consistent 25 with what the Governor said. 30 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But TAC -- and I 3 understand the insurance thing. TAC is saying we don't 4 know, so -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I'd like 6 to clear up real quick. The Sheriff's Office provides 7 security out there. Us providing security is an 8 off-duty job for the deputies; it's not part of the 9 Sheriff's Office. They contract the guards. They have 10 peace officers. I have the authority to approve what 11 off-duty jobs that our officers work because there is 12 some County liability on that. And I've declined for 13 our officers to work that type of off-duty situation 14 just because of the risk, you know. If we're testing 15 ten percent positive right now and you're at an event 16 that it is exempted for some reason, and I never 17 understood this, the Governor's put in a limit on 18 outdoor events to ten or more approved by the Mayor or 19 the -- or the County Judge, but on indoor events there 20 is no limit, okay? And so, I have an issue with that. 21 If we're testing ten percent and you put 500 people in 22 there, then you've got at least probably 50 -- if you 23 can, you know, say that -- that are going to be 24 positive. And because they're consuming alcohol or a 25 drink, it doesn't have to be alcohol, consuming or 31 1 eating, they don't have to have a mask on. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If they're seated. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It doesn't say anything 4 about if they're seated. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It doesn't? Huh. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. In fact, I saw 7 people walking into Walmart this weekend with a Coke in 8 their hand. All right. They require them to have it 9 on. As soon as they got in there, they took their mask 10 off because they're consuming. 11 There's a lot of issues. You know, TDCAA 12 has even said on the -- TDCAA is Texas District County 13 Attorneys Association, which is most of your prosecutors 14 in the state, they said this -- this 28 is unenforceable 15 when it comes to law enforcement. And I can't enforce 16 it. And that's where we stand. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the -- in order for 19 your deputies to provide off-duty security, you have to 20 approve all of those? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because there is some 24 liability in that type of what -- what the County 25 absorbs. 32 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I've learned 2 something. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Are you ready to 4 move forward, Judge? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So Amber is the first 7 one. 8 MS. BURRESS: Hi. I'm Amber Burress. I 9 represent HEB Pharmacy. On the issue of closing the 10 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, if the decision is to 11 be made to close it, would we be able to still hold our 12 annual flu clinic that we do every -- each year? We do 13 it with the emergency preparedness team here in the 14 county and -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 16 MS. BURRESS: Okay. That's -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: It's a governmental function, 18 just like we did the COVID testing out there. 19 MS. BURRESS: Perfect. 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's what -- what this -- 21 the item that is on the agenda is to not have a social 22 event there. 23 MS. BURRESS: Right. And I -- okay. I just 24 wanted to make sure, just to cover it. Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Amber, I've got a 33 1 question for you. 2 MS. BURRESS: Yes sir? 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know you're a 4-H 4 leader and stuff. 5 MS. BURRESS: I am. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Do you have any 7 comments as far as that goes? 8 MS. BURRESS: I do, but I don't. I -- I'm 9 very mixed. I'm very -- I'm very mixed. My kiddo is in 10 4-H, she shows animals. We're really debating whether 11 we're going to do that this year. This would severely 12 limit us, right. Basically we wouldn't -- she wouldn't 13 have that experience this year. I'm torn as a health 14 professional. 15 Honestly, I think gatherings of 500 people 16 is a little much and I don't think that's going to help 17 us at all. Whether y'all can or cannot or choose to do 18 it, that's up to you guys. But as a mom of a 4-H kiddo 19 and -- yes, I would love for her to have that experience 20 but I don't know how it would be regulated. I -- just 21 at the -- this is going to -- so at the stock show last 22 year, I don't know how many of us left there with the 23 flu. My family included and all of that. Things 24 spread. It happens. 25 So I -- I'm very -- I'm very torn. As a 34 1 health professional, I don't think that events should be 2 out there, but as a parent I would love for her to be 3 able to have the experience. So I'm kind of torn. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I wasn't going to let 5 you get off that easy. 6 MS. BURRESS: I know that, dang it. And 7 like I said, I'm just -- I'm torn. I -- I -- honestly, 8 I don't know and y'all -- unfortunately, y'all have a 9 very hard decision to make. But I just wanted to make 10 sure that we could still serve the community for the flu 11 clinic and -- and also use that as a COVID preparedness 12 if that needs to come out, how we could do it, you know. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks. 14 MS. BURRESS: Thank you. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will be the Hall 16 Family and it will be four of them coming in, and it 17 will be her and the four. 18 MS. McKENNA HALL: Good morning. My name is 19 McKenna Hall and this is my sister Madeline Hall. We 20 both live here in Ingram and I will be a graduating high 21 school senior this year. I have been an active member 22 in the 4-H program for the past seven years. Over the 23 years I have held several officer positions, including 24 president, council delegate and council officer. 25 The Youth Event Center has played a pivotal 35 1 part in our 4-H activities in Kerr County. The ability 2 to use the center is even more important now because it 3 is the only place big enough to social distance while 4 staying out of the heat. The graduating seniors this 5 year have put up with enough. Everything we had to look 6 forward to was canceled. My 4-H scholarship banquet and 7 ceremony was canceled. State 4-H was canceled. Senior 8 school activities were all canceled. We could barely 9 have graduations and even some kids couldn't even do 10 that. So the last thing I have for my entire 4-H and 11 high school career is the Kerr 4-H award ceremony on 12 August 1st, which is held at the Event Center. If the 13 center is closed, I will lose that, too. 14 What sense does it make to close the only 15 place where you can have an event and still social 16 distance? Youth aren't even at risk from the virus so 17 why are we the ones being punished? I'm not just here 18 for my own benefit; I'm here for everyone in the County 19 4-H program. We all share the same sentiment. 20 This past year I have served as the 4-H 21 Horse Co-President. So on graduating I choose not to 22 leave Kerrville, but I will stay here to go to Schreiner 23 University where I will be on the equestrian team. This 24 was only made possible through my participation and 25 study in the Horse Project. I hope to continue as a 4-H 36 1 alumni by coaching or horse judging the horse principle 2 programs this next year. The Youth Center will be vital 3 to our practices and recruitment for the year. 4 I also gave educational presentations during 5 our recruiting event, our big bash, as well as Ag 6 Awareness Day, which boosted our 4-H enrollment. We 7 need our Youth Center open. The Extension Office is not 8 big enough to meet and still social distance. Even this 9 summer, our younger students could not meet with our 10 senior students because of social distancing. Without 11 the Youth Center open, these educational activities will 12 not be possible. Kids camps and sports programs 13 continue. 14 Why would our Commissioners want to shut 15 down our vital 4-H leadership, livestock, ag, STEM and 16 other academic programs that give us a productive 17 educational experience. Please keep our Youth Center 18 open. It is the glue that holds our 4-H program 19 together. And please do not let us down again. Thank 20 you. 21 MR. NATHANAEL HALL: Hello. I'm Nathanael 22 Hall, this is Samuel Hall and Jonathan Hall, my 23 brothers, and we live in Ingram. And I am testifying 24 against shutting down the Hill County Youth Event 25 Center. 37 1 Over the past few years, due to the size of 2 the County AgriLife Extension Office and the amount of 3 clubs, projects and 4-H and outside organizations, we 4 are constantly full. So they have to use the Youth 5 Event Center for many of our horse club and robotics 6 practices. Whether it's a simple project meeting or a 7 big bash, even a recruiting event, wild game dinner or 8 officer training, Ag Awareness Day or livestock shows, 9 we need our Youth Event Center to keep our 4-H program 10 alive and thriving. 11 Tomorrow, we're supposed to launch our first 12 STEM camp to help educate kids all across the State 13 about Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics. 14 This last year, it was my privilege to serve as one of 15 our Texas 4-H STEM Ambassadors. 16 Our county, our country and our state 17 desperately need smart, innovative students in this 18 field to become the next generation leaders in science 19 and technology. It will be to our national security, 20 our medical field, establish security and agriculture, 21 and virtually every industry in the future. Our STEM 22 camp is an important first step leading our youth into a 23 career of the future. 24 I'm also going to serve as President of our 25 West Kerr 4-H Club this year, as well as a council 38 1 officer again. We need the Youth Center for officer 2 training to equip our leaders to lead our clubs this 3 next year. And especially to help us navigate the 4 coronavirus and still keep our clubs and students 5 enthusiastic about the coming year. 6 When virtually everything is constantly up 7 in the air and being cancelled left and right, we feel 8 like our hands are being tied behind our back every turn 9 just to get basic tasks completed. Limping along is no 10 way to build a vital 4-H youth program. We need to be 11 able to count on our support -- on your support to keep 12 our 4-H program not just alive but thriving. 13 With so many disappointments this year, one 14 highlight we've been looking for through all summer is 15 the upcoming awards ceremony scheduled for August 1st. 16 Many of us have worked all year to submit our record 17 book, go through rigorous interview processes, worked 18 very hard in serving as officers and doing countless 19 hours of community service, which -- which all goes into 20 our annual awards program that recognizes the year's 21 hard work and accomplishments. 22 COVID-19 has canceled most of our 4-H year, 23 even our state competitions at ATM. I even qualified 24 for several competitions that were canceled, even though 25 I spent years, years preparing for that moment at a shot 39 1 to going to nationals. 2 Even so, we have continued to do our best to 3 improve our County, learn more, lead you to a 4 life-changing program and salvage what competitions we 5 could. Please do not punish our County's 4-H program 6 any further by shutting down our Youth Event Center for 7 these important programs. We need our Youth Center to 8 stay open. With so few places large enough for groups 9 to meet and still allow for social distancing, it 10 doesn't make sense to close the Youth Center now. Doing 11 so will make it near impossible to keep a vital 4-H 12 program in our county this next year. We need your -- 13 we need your help. Please do not let us down. Thank 14 you. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 16 MR. ROGER HALL: Good morning. I'm Roger 17 Hall. I am a 4-H parent, a volunteer in the 4-H 18 robotics project, a leader of that, and I'm also a 19 concerned father. I'm here to ask the County to keep 20 the Hill Country Youth Event Center open. This facility 21 is vital to our area's youth development and education. 22 An example of this that has been mentioned is the STEM 23 camp, and I think everybody understands here how vital 24 STEM involvement -- of kids being involved in the STEM 25 program and giving them the vision of what they can do 40 1 in careers to further their -- their community's 2 effectiveness. Those careers could be, just to name a 3 few, the mechanical engineering, agricultural 4 engineering, computer systems engineering, 5 veterinarians, physicians, fishery sciences. We need 6 our students to learn about these fields, and encourage 7 them to pursue a career that can fill these needs in our 8 region. 9 Another example of how this facility is 10 vital is through the 4-H robotics project that I 11 reviewed. Each year, the September bash is a field trip 12 hosted here to introduce the area youth to all that our 13 4-H County programs offer. This is a key event to 14 recruit kids and families that would not otherwise know 15 how 4-H can extend their educational experience and 16 expand their horizons. Projects and clubs within the 17 4-H program also need the space to hold meetings. The 18 robotics project, for example. 19 Our regular bi-weekly meetings -- this last 20 year we were meeting at a local school. Well, the 21 schools, as we all know, are very ambiguous as to if 22 they're going to even be open. So we need facilities 23 like this that are open to maintain social distancing 24 and continue programs. So I'm here just to ask you to 25 support our youth and please do not close this facility. 41 1 And then on the second item, just while I'm 2 up here, I think it was item 1.5 -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: No. We can't talk about that. 4 MR. HALL: Can't talk about that yet? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Not until it's called. 6 MR. HALL: All right. Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks. 8 MS. HALL: Hello. Terri Hall at 118 9 Independence in Ingram. Also a 4-H parent. Long time 10 4-H parent, as you can tell. The Youth Center is 11 certainly integral to our County 4-H program. It's for 12 recruiting, our fundraiser, officer and club and club 13 manager training, project meetings and practices, AG 14 Awareness Day, livestock -- livestock shows and more. 15 It's the only building large enough for us to social 16 distance and gather. We need high quality youth 17 programs for our kids. 18 I think we're all concerned with rising 19 crime rates. We've seen rioting in the streets. 20 Tearing down of monuments. But these kids aren't the 21 problem. They're our solution. 4-H also shows the way, 22 how to excite kids about rural Texas, and educate them 23 and train them for the next generation of ag jobs that 24 will keep our talent and young people here in Kerrville, 25 and stop the brain drain to the big cities. 42 1 In just a few weeks, 4-H will host its 2 annual awards program as you heard. These kids have 3 worked so hard to serve their clubs, our community, 4 learn amazing amounts of information, it makes my brain 5 hurt thinking about half of it. They hone their skills 6 to excel in and compete in a very high level in these 7 projects. They wait all year in hopes of having their 8 name called during the awards program. With everything 9 that's been cancelled, again and again, please don't 10 take this from them, too. 11 The federal government is covering COVID 12 cases and 4-H kids are covered under the Texas 4-H 13 insurance. I don't think this is a liability problem 14 for y'all. Please keep our Youth Center open to them. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Are those all the 16 people that -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. We still have two 18 more, Judge. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Two more? Okay. 20 Please identify yourself. 21 MR. LOCKWOOD: My name is Peter Lockwood and 22 I am in 8th grade at Hal Peterson Middle School. I've 23 been a proud 4-H member for six years, raising market 24 lambs and participating in various outdoor and 25 leadership projects. I have recently been elected 43 1 East Kerr Club President and counsel delegate for the 2 Kerr County 4-H Council. On behalf of my fellow club 3 members and all of Kerr County 4-H, I would like to ask 4 the Court to vote against the closure of Hill Country 5 Youth Event Center. 6 The Hill Country Youth Event Center is very 7 important to the functioning of 4-H. We hold club 8 meetings, project meetings, training sessions, and 9 official events scheduled throughout the school year and 10 summer. It is also very important to us -- to those of 11 us who show livestock to help raise money for college. 12 Closing the AG barn would mean the cancellation of 13 showings and clinics that ultimately prepare for the 14 Hill Country Junior Livestock Show. 15 I am confident that if the Hill Country -- 16 Hill Country Youth Event Center remains open, you can 17 trust that the 4-H adult leadership will share proper 18 safety procedures for themselves and the 4-H members in 19 their charge. 20 So, once again, I implore you to please vote 21 against the closure of the Hill Country Youth Event 22 Center for the sake of the continuation of 4-H 23 activities this year and how much these activities mean 24 to the youth of Kerr County. Thank you for your time. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. Very well 44 1 done. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well done. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll have one more 4 after this young lady, Judge. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Please state your name and 6 your address. 7 MS. SWICKER: Good morning, Judge Kelly and 8 Commissioners. I am Nayelie Swicker, and I'm the 9 incoming president of the Kerrville 4-H Club. The Youth 10 Event Center is vital to the Kerr County 4-H program. 11 4-H is more than showing livestock. 4-H builds leaders 12 and instills lifelong skills and confidence. 4-H took 13 me, a shy, bullied kid, who got soap shoved in her face, 14 to the girl that she sees today. Without the Event 15 Center, we can no longer hold our meetings, training, 16 project experiences or livestock shows. 17 And I feel that there are ways that we can 18 compromise without sacrificing our health and safety. 19 The Extension Office has enforced strict rules and 20 policies to keep us safe. The Event Center is doing a 21 great job as well. And I respectfully ask that you 22 reconsider -- that you consider not only those members 23 like myself who only have one more year left, but the 24 incoming members excited to start their 4-H careers, and 25 those who already have time and money invested in their 45 1 livestock for making this difficult decision. 2 The Event Center is like a second home. If 3 I'm not at home, I'm at the Event Center working my 4 livestock, participating in community service, AG 5 Awareness Day, anything that involves the Event Center. 6 Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Thank you. You did a 9 good job. 10 MS. FIEDLER: I think I'm the last one. I'm 11 Angela. I think I know all of you here and y'all have 12 heard from a few of our families today. We asked them 13 to come support keeping the Event Center open. I 14 realize y'all have a difficult discussion to make. I 15 guess I would consider -- I would ask you to consider 16 educational programs that we can look at how we can keep 17 those kids and -- and adults, the volunteers safe. And 18 we've already been doing that. 19 We do have a STEM camp that starts tomorrow, 20 and we had already made arrangements to be at the Event 21 Center, so we will have to find another place, and it's 22 not going to be an easy transition to make. 23 As far as your liability, I know we talked 24 about -- I heard that, coming up with liability with the 25 TAC and things like that. We have our own liability 46 1 policy with 4-H. They're covered under 14 and we can 2 get more information to you about that if you need that 3 kind of information. But I would ask that you would try 4 -- that you would make an exemption for the educational 5 side of it and -- and that would include 4-H under the 6 educational programs. 7 So do y'all have any questions on the 4-H 8 end? 9 JUDGE KELLY: On 4-H? No. 10 (Talking over). 11 MS. FIEDLER: We use that Event Center all 12 the time. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I have a 14 question, Angela. How many kids are registered? 15 MS. FIEDLER: We have over 300 kiddoes. One 16 thing about -- and I will bring this up about our STEM 17 camp. It was actually opened to all youth, not just 18 4-H youth. So that's one thing that we try to -- to 19 encompass not just for our 4-H kids. It seems like our 20 4-H kids are the ones that, you know, are more apt to 21 come to those but -- and we had another camp earlier in 22 the -- in the summer and that was opened to include 23 others to come to that, too. So we don't just limit it 24 to 4-H kids. If we can, we -- we open that up because 25 it's a great way to recruit and to show them what 4-H 47 1 can offer. So -- and we -- we don't discriminate. 2 That's one of the things that we -- we do through 4-H 3 and AgriLife through our programming. 4 So if y'all of any questions, feel free to 5 say. I know you have a tough decision to make but we 6 would ask for the support of the Event Center. That is 7 the only place we can safely social distance at this 8 time. Until y'all build us another building. Not 9 happening? All right. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 11 MS. FIEDLER: Well, thank you so much. 12 Y'all have a great day. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I believe that was the 14 last one. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Do we have any discussion 16 about item 1.3? 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I -- I do. The 18 Governor has given us these hoops to jump through. I 19 don't want to make those hoops any smaller. If we do 20 what he's laid out, and let it be known to anybody that 21 uses the facility, and we'll go by his -- jump through 22 the hoops he's put us through -- put out there for us. 23 But like I said, I don't want to make them any smaller 24 and more restrictive is my opinion. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The Governor has 48 1 clearly stated what the requirements are, 50 percent, so 2 that's a given, okay, for what we're working with right 3 now. I'm looking at it as risk versus benefits. Okay. 4 The benefits we've heard a lot of testimony here today. 5 I think we know the benefits. In my judgment, the 6 benefits way out -- 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Outweigh. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- outweigh -- excuse 9 me, thank you -- outweigh the risks. And there's some 10 question for TAC on that but I think, you know, we'll -- 11 we'll face that -- that risk if we get there, but I 12 think the benefits are huge so -- in keeping it open. 13 Per the Governor's guidelines. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Anything else? Any motions? 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I make a motion that we 16 adhere to the Governor's guidelines of 50 percent 17 occupancy in the Hill Country Youth Event Center for all 18 events, period. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 21 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 22 keep the Event Center open to 50 percent capacity. Is 23 that right? 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Anything under the 49 1 Governor's -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's it. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 5 in favor raise your hand. Those opposed. Three to one. 6 (Judge Kelly opposed.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Let's move on to item 8 1.4 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 9 regarding the tax rate increases for Kerr County 10 properties including agriculture, residential and 11 commercial properties. And I've got -- let's give -- 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Do you want to call 13 out the first one so -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, I will. And so we're 15 going to start with Lary Priour, Mike Matheny -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Judge, one thing I 17 might -- we're about eight or ten minutes until ten 18 o'clock hour. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Oh. We're not going to stop 20 at 10:00. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We're going to keep going. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have Lary Priour, and 24 Dalene Taylor, and then Tom Wallace and Cindy Rieck. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 50 1 (Off the record.) 2 JUDGE KELLY: Please state your name and 3 address. 4 MR. PRIOUR: I'm Lary Priour. I live at 5 1996 Sheppard Rees Road, just outside of Kerrville. I 6 was born and raised here. I grew up in a ranching 7 family. Except for some years going away to school, 8 I've been here all my life. I'm 71 years old, and I've 9 never formally protested property taxes before. 10 I'm a member of a large group of over 100 11 property owners. We represent 85,000 acres of ranch in 12 Kerr County, plus many residential properties in Kerr 13 County. We are here today protesting the unreasonably 14 high property appraisal values issued by the Kerr County 15 Appraisal District and we are seeking relief. 16 The Appraisal District has increased the 17 taxable ag activity value by at least 47 percent. They 18 have gone from $60 an acre to $88 an acre. To put this 19 $88 an acre into perspective, Edwards County went down a 20 percent to $45 on their ag productivity value. Kendall 21 County is at 64, Real County is at 53, and Kimble County 22 is at $48 an acre. We're at 88. 23 The Kerrville Appraisal District mailed out 24 these values out in May, which is customary. This was 25 also two months into the coronavirus shutdown, at a time 51 1 when many ranchers and farmers were seriously hurting, 2 along with many, many other people. 3 You would think that there would be enough 4 sense of fairness and compassion somewhere in the 5 Appraisal District to pull back and say, we can't do 6 this to the taxpayer in a year such as this. And it 7 should be done fair. I have witnessed over 50 years as 8 property taxes have increased, more and more ranchers go 9 out of business. Their ranches get sold. They get cut 10 up. They get taken out of production. Production by 11 ranchers and farmers is vital to all of us. The profit 12 margin for ranching is low. Our Mountain Home ranch has 13 only shown a profit in two out of the last five years. 14 Currently, because of many cancelled hunts 15 and low cattle prices due to COVID-19, we do not have 16 enough money in the bank to pay for labor and feed to 17 get through the end of this month. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Priour, I need to ask you 19 to wrap it up because your three minutes has expired. 20 MR. PRIOUR: Hopefully, hunting and cattle 21 prices will pick up by the fall. The estimated increase 22 in property taxes on this ranch is $3,250 more than it 23 was last year. 24 MS. TAYLOR: I'm Dalene Taylor. I give my 25 time to Lary. 52 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 2 MR. PRIOUR: The Appraisal Office say that 3 they were told by the Comptroller's Office to raise 4 property values. And thus, they feel justified in these 5 serious and these excessive increases. So far, they 6 have refused to show us any communications that they 7 have had with the comptroller instructing them to raise 8 the appraised values. And they have hired a lawyer to 9 block us from seeing the complete surveys that they used 10 and didn't use to raise the ag values. 11 I've got a letter here from their lawyer. 12 There should be five copies there. This letter from 13 their lawyer was sent to Attorney General Ken Paxton 14 asking for a ruling on not releasing all the survey 15 data, because of confidentiality. There are false 16 claims in that letter as to timeliness, and I can prove 17 it. I have attached to the back of the letter a copy of 18 the data that they did provide us for fencing expenses. 19 And that includes the owners' names. Why are they 20 afraid to give us the full data with names on the 21 grazing and hunting lease amounts that determine income 22 for raising ag values? I can tell you some of the 23 numbers that they have used are doubtful and 24 unrealistic. Fortunately -- oh, one other thing. Their 25 data needs to be verified. 53 1 Fortunately, the final tax amount is 2 determined by the taxing entities, and that's why we are 3 here today to ask the Court to reduce the County tax 4 rate so that the taxes are close to last year's amounts. 5 Thank you for listening. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 8 MR. WALLACE: Hello. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. Please give us your 10 name and address. 11 MR. WALLACE: Yes. My name is Thomas 12 Wallace. I live at 2537 Rogers Circle. We also have a 13 family ranch on 2752 Hugo Real Road. And I just wanted 14 to say thank you for your time and allowing us to be 15 here and speak. 16 Good morning. I'm Thomas Wallace and I 17 raise commercial Angus cattle on my family's land in 18 Kerr County. It has been in our family for five 19 generations since 1857. The Kerr County Appraisal 20 District has increased the productivity value of ag 48 21 percent and higher across the board. To put this into 22 perspective, the Appraisal District is putting our ag 23 productivity value at $88 an acre. This blanket tax 24 increase was based upon surveys sent out asking 25 confusing and nonspecific questions about the ag units. 54 1 It is my understanding that a thousand 2 surveys were sent out and only 300 returned, less than 3 30 percent of the sample populus determined the current 4 valuation. One has to ask, what is the competence level 5 of this sample. Not knowing the true population of ag 6 producers in Kerr County, I cannot provide exact numbers 7 but one can assume that the survey has less than 20 8 percent accuracy in relation to the complete landowner 9 population. 10 It is important to remember that the 11 productivity of a ranch is highly variable and dependent 12 on ranch size, topography, water availability, type, 13 volume, diversity of vegetation, soils, weather and 14 climate patterns, as well as most importantly, landowner 15 preference. If one person wants to constantly purchase 16 wildlife, import them to their ranch and overgraze the 17 grass to increase their hunting production, that is 18 landowner preference. The other landowner preference 19 might be to conserve the land and not overgraze the 20 pasture in order to have sustainable cattle production. 21 The conservation minded landowners should not be 22 penalized or taxed unfairly because he or she cares 23 about the long-term future of their land. That is why 24 the agriculture productivity value needs to have 25 landowner input, along with the County Appraisal 55 1 District, regarding formulas, expenses and other 2 pertinent factors. 3 In summary, we have been given a net-to-land 4 value based on less than one-third of population input, 5 which provides for less than 20 percent accuracy. This 6 valuation has come during a time when cattle prices have 7 been flat, if not declined, and costs have increased. 8 The method or model used places a tax on a supposed 9 potential income of a land. However, the reality of the 10 situation is that the land is not suddenly 50 percent 11 more agriculturally productive this year than that from 12 the year 2019. What has changed? Why an almost 50 13 percent increase in one year? What will 2021 be like? 14 I admit that a tax is justifiable as 15 ag production does wear on county roads and does utilize 16 county services. However, I do not see how suddenly an 17 increase of nearly 50 percent can honestly be applied. 18 Please, Commissioners, I ask of you relief 19 in any form possible on your part. I also strongly 20 encourage KCAD to reevaluate their methods and formulas 21 for taxation on agricultural productivity values. We 22 would like to work together to make this ag exemption 23 fair for both the appraisal district and the landowner, 24 using it for its true purpose when created in the 1960s 25 to keep farmers and ranchers like myself and my children 56 1 in business for generations to come. Thank for your 2 time and opportunity to speak. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Did you want to 4 speak, ma'am? 5 MR. WALLACE: She was here to -- in case we 6 needed some extra time. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 8 MR. WALLACE: Okay. Thank y'all. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Just so y'all know, 11 Jonathan has called in and is listening. Did you want 12 to say anything, Jonathan? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm -- I'm just 14 listening. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 16 JUDGE KELLY: If you would, please state 17 your name and address. 18 MR. STROHACKER: My name is Louis 19 Strohacker, 1400 Bushwhack Road. We have Loma Vista 20 Ranch, which was founded in 1900 by my grandfather, 21 Oscar Strohacker, and his brother-in-law and good 22 friend, Hubert Heinen. 23 Originally, the ranch was about 5,000 acres. 24 And my father purchased 3,500 of them right after World 25 War II. And he managed it until his death, and I 57 1 have -- in '95, and I have been the manager and co-owner 2 with the other descendents since 1995. 3 You might go ahead and go -- I have copies 4 of my little presentation here. Just to give you. 5 First I want to talk about livestock price history. I 6 did a little research here. And it looks like the 7 livestock prices are no higher than they were ten years 8 ago during the drought where everybody sold off all 9 their stock. 10 There was managers selling off -- they were 11 selling and killing over 5,000 head of cattle a week. 12 And I know -- I know I took a trip in there up into 13 Wyoming to my son's wedding, and -- and we only -- we 14 counted -- I went with a cousin and we counted cattle. 15 And we only counted 500 cattle between here and Wyoming. 16 Anyway, down here on the attachment in here 17 is a graph. It looks something like that. That is a 18 graph of -- there's two -- two of those graphs. One is 19 steer prices. It starts in 2010. That -- actually it's 20 the end of 2010. That -- that particular one is 21 actually January of 2011. And the 2011 is December of 22 '11. I used where I could December because the 23 appraisal office works on end-of-year data. They claim. 24 So anyway. 25 And the little chart in front of that is 58 1 just my data that I found. So anyway. The prices start 2 out about a dollar fifty a pound. And there was a rise 3 in 2014, and then the next year it pretty much back down 4 to where it was. And so, you know, I know we've all 5 seen grocery store prices for beef and stuff go way up. 6 But guess what, the farmers and ranchers aren't getting 7 it. The guy that hauls them off in a 18-wheeler 8 merchant gets more out of it. So -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Strohacker, I need you to 10 wrap it up pretty quickly. Your three minutes just 11 expired. 12 MR. STROHACKER: Oh okay. 13 MR. SCOTT: I'm Bill Scott, and I'm going to 14 give my time to him. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 16 MR. STROHACKER: The next thing I wanted to 17 talk about just slightly was, is that there -- I have a 18 profit and loss statement in here and the attachment 19 there is a backup from my CPA. But -- but we have been 20 experiencing losses every year for a number of years. 21 So anyway. Ag productivity is largely influenced by the 22 quality of land and rainfall. Rainfall has been fairly 23 short the last decade. And we also have influence of, 24 you know, what quality of land you have, and what we 25 have is very rocky and very thin soils. And that's not 59 1 unusual for around here, but it's certainly not like it 2 over in the black land prairie or something like that, 3 where they do have much higher ag productivity. 4 I have some stuff in here on influence of 5 regulations. Predators, restrictions, we're -- we've 6 got so many things that we have to deal with now and -- 7 and I've listed a bunch here. And one I thought of 8 since I wrote the list was we now have a lot of human 9 invaders. And -- and they just come through. And it 10 used to be it was people from Mexico. You know. They 11 just went through, and they might stop and ask you for 12 some food. Now, they just do malicious damage and steal 13 gas caps and damage machinery and equipment. 14 So, I think what I laid out here is pretty 15 self-explanatory. If you have any questions? 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Very good. Thank you 17 very much. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Thank you. 19 Organized. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you for doing 22 that. 23 (Off the record.) 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Do you have extra 25 copies over there? 60 1 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Judge, Commissioners. Good 2 to see you all. I'm Julius Neunhoffer, 124 Neunhoffer 3 Ranch Road. I'm part of the family that's been ranching 4 and farming for five generations. My brother and I are 5 trying to hand it down to our children. 6 It seems the Appraisal District, when they 7 projected the increase of ag productivity never took 8 into account several factors. One, fence maintenance 9 and repair or replacement. Nature drops trees, 10 lightning explodes trees and rocks, floods knock down 11 water gaps, erosion causes fences to come apart. Then 12 there's deer hitting them and breaking wires. Your 13 neighbor's bull and yours fighting and tearing them up 14 and you have to rework that. 15 But the worst is blackbuck and predators. 16 Hogs, for instance also. Blackbuck will knock holes 17 through a fence because they can't jump a standard 18 fence. And then you start having problems with the hogs 19 and coyotes opening that hole up bigger and before you 20 know it, either your livestock's on your neighbor's or 21 they -- his is on your land. It takes a lot of labor, 22 materials and equipment to fix this. There are predator 23 problems, coyotes, wild hogs, bobcats, big cats, hawks 24 and eagles. The big cats will come and jump a tall 25 fence right into anybody's property, if they so want to. 61 1 The coyotes are so bad now. We are having 2 to keep our goats and sheep near home and then pen them 3 every night when kidding and lambing. They will kill 4 any size of sheep or goat if they have a chance to, 5 also. 6 You have the labor and feed to do this is a 7 major expense. Even then we have loss of about 40 8 percent of newborns before adulthood. The hunters have 9 noted that there are not near the whitetail deer there 10 used to be when they're hunting these days. And it's 11 because of the predators. Coyotes killing fawns and 12 does. And the hogs have been known to kill full grown 13 bucks and tear them up. We've seen the marks on the 14 bucks from the hogs doing that. 15 We have about half the head count of 16 whitetail deer that we had ten years ago, just in these 17 ten years period, that doesn't count further back all 18 the way. So again, this is loss in income, not more. 19 Brush is another problem that they don't 20 take into consideration. There are six types of brush 21 that we have to fight continuously, the worst one being 22 cedar. Clearing cedar is costly due -- and there is an 23 ongoing reworking to keep it clear. If the cedar takes 24 over the property, the grass is reduced proportional to 25 the cedar growth, thus less for the animals and also 62 1 harder to locate the animals when you need to bring them 2 in. Cost is -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Neunhoffer, I'm going to 4 need you to wrap it up pretty soon. Your time limit 5 just went off. 6 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Okay. 7 MS. NEUNHOFFER: I'll give him my time. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And you are? 9 MS. NEUNHOFFER: I'm Camilla Jane "Janie" 10 Neunhoffer. 11 JUDGE KELLY: I've got it right here. Go 12 ahead. 13 MR. NEUNHOFFER: All right. Thank you, sir. 14 Cost of clearing is around $200 an acre for 15 third year growth cedar, and that's not under extreme 16 conditions of bad, rocky country. That's under low 17 lands like we have mostly. And there -- and that does 18 not include burning and piling it. That's just clearing 19 it down. 20 After clearing is done, three to five years 21 of controlled burn is needed to stop regrowth. A 22 controlled burn takes a year to plan. A month is 23 sometimes -- with a crew of people doing prep work, such 24 as black lining, moving old brush, clearing around 25 utility poles, hunting blinds, feeders, and buildings 63 1 before the burn is ready to do. 2 Finally, with a dozen or more people, water 3 trucks, big sprayer, leaf blower, torches, shovels, 4 chainsaws, backpack sprayers and more, the burn can be 5 done with proper weather conditions. And this has to be 6 repeated every few years or you will have the cedar 7 encroaching on you again. 8 What with the big cost that this is -- that 9 the appraiser does not figure in when he's talking about 10 the increase of buck -- productivity of the ag 11 production. I thank you, gentlemen. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Neunhoffer. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Julius? Let me ask 14 Julius a quick question. 15 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A couple things, 17 Julius. Number one, you made a couple of points. 18 Number one, predators and things have decreased the 19 value of the property just because of their increase. 20 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Number one. Number 22 two, a reduction in the number of whitetail deer. Okay. 23 So my question is, have you asked or have you heard from 24 the Appraisal District or have you had a hearing with 25 the Appraisal District or if they -- if they consider 64 1 those types of things? 2 MR. NEUNHOFFER: We are scheduled -- I think 3 it's next month -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 5 MR. NEUNHOFFER: -- on this. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 7 MR. NEUNHOFFER: But they -- they -- they 8 allow for certain things like wells for your water and 9 things like that that you -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 11 MR. NEUNHOFFER: -- that are considered. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 13 MR. NEUNHOFFER: But they don't look at all 14 of the labor it takes to support all of this. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I'm just talking 16 about the things you don't have control over. 17 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Coyotes and hogs and 19 things like that. Which are increasing. Number -- 20 number one. 21 MR. NEUNHOFFER: True. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Number two, the 23 whitetail deer, which is important to property value -- 24 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Uh-huh. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- is decreasing. So, 65 1 to me, that doesn't have to do with labor or anything 2 like that and -- 3 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- and that's something 5 you can't control. 6 MR. NEUNHOFFER: Well, exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 MR. NEUNHOFFER: And this year's big 9 hailstorm we had, we completely lost all of our pasture 10 grass. It was flattened. I mean brown in two days. We 11 lost our oat crops. I mean we have, again, weather we 12 can't control eating us up this year. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks, Julius. 14 MR. NEUNHOFFER: All right. Thank you. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Who do we have 16 next, Sheriff? 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think the Sheriff's 18 taking a break. 19 JUDGE KELLY: I don't know how many more 20 we've got. I've got -- I don't have that many more -- 21 I've got homeowners' association. Looks like we've got 22 four of them. 23 Welcome. Please state your name and 24 address. 25 MR. FRIDELL: Larry Lee Fridell, Jr., 66 1 107 Megan Lane, Ingram, Texas. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 3 MR. FRIDELL: I probably know some of y'all 4 through friends and family. Don Harris, my Ag teacher. 5 Rob Kelly with the school, for years. So small 6 community. 7 Everyone is here talking about 8 ag productivity value and whatnot. My main issue is I 9 have a residential house and valuation of it went up 300 10 percent and quadrupled value overnight. The land is 11 still the same. There's no improvements on it. 12 What I'd pass along was y'alls current 13 appraised value comparable's. Literally an eighth of a 14 mile away -- my home is in Hills and Dales, an open 15 subdivision. An eighth of a mile away is Cypress 16 Springs, the subdivision, the homeowner association, 17 river access, land's already cleared, and the land in 18 there is 13, $15,000 an acre and on the market for over 19 a year. Obviously the market's not dictating it to sell 20 for that. 21 And here, from last year to this year, three 22 separate lots, each one an acre, they just went from 23 10,000 to a little over $40,000 an acre. It's a cedar 24 break and a patch of rocks. There ain't no water. 25 There ain't no utilities, water, septic, infrastructure. 67 1 Nothing. 2 And I try to be a good citizen of the 3 community. I'm a volunteer firefighter. I've been here 4 my whole life. Graduated from Schreiner with a degree 5 and I love doing things for the community and paying my 6 taxes when they're fairly appraised. And when you put 7 arbitrary value on it, I feel that is unjustified and 8 I'm just trying to voice my opinions and to see what 9 kind of recourse. 10 We know it's a consensus that a piece of 11 land is what it's worth and someone's going to pay for 12 it. And if you just put an arbitrary value on it, it's 13 not a true appraisal. And I know for fact no one's come 14 to my land and checked it in person. Nothing. Well, if 15 you can go from one section to one section to one 16 section, every piece of land is different and has 17 different characteristics, trees, you know, slopes, 18 inclines, gravel type, everything. You know. Just my 19 three sections, one straight cedar, the next one's a 20 hillside, another one's a good pasture of oak trees. 21 You know, those three lands are not worth the same 22 amount. That's my two cents and it's -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, Larry, looking at 24 what you just gave us, looks like their proposed value 25 is increased by a factor of four? 68 1 MR. FRIDELL: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: A factor of four; not 3 47 percent. 4 MR. FRIDELL: No. 300 percent. Factor of 5 four. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Right. 400 7 percent. 8 MR. FRIDELL: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I mean a factor of 10 four. Okay. 11 MR. FRIDELL: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 13 MR. FRIDELL: Well, and I can understand, 14 you know, increases for inflation, for incoming people 15 to market, you know, buying land at higher values. A 16 lot of people come from California and they spend on 17 their land and a house. A two bedroom house for 300, 18 $400,000, come to Texas, golly, I could buy a thousand 19 acres and a three-bedroom, two-bedroom house for half of 20 that. You know. And inflate that mortgage so grossly 21 that using comparable's as your justification for 22 valuation, it skews it, you know. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And you've appealed 24 this? 25 MR. FRIDELL: Yes, sir. I've filed my 69 1 protest and I'm waiting to hear back from y'all whenever 2 I can meet with the appraisal board or whatever. I've 3 tried -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: You understand we have nothing 5 do with that? 6 MR. FRIDELL: Yes, sir. All y'all have is 7 the County tax rate. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 10 MR. FRIDELL: You know. And there's no way 11 to lower that tax rate to offset the difference of what 12 the appraisal's doing. But my viewpoint since y'all 13 are, you know, duly elected officials and good stewards 14 of the community that you have some sort of 15 accountability or recourse to keep these other people in 16 check. I mean, it's just an appraiser saying it's worth 17 "X" amount. Well, I'd like to see your justification 18 for it and I'd hope that others in the community go 19 whoa, red flag, that's -- that's not right. That's not 20 fair. 21 With this tax increase -- I don't make a lot 22 of money, you know. You're essentially wanting me to 23 work one month out of a year to give y'all taxes that -- 24 for me to have the rights to own a piece of property 25 that makes me no money. So -- 70 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Okay. 2 MR. FRIDELL: -- I'm going to go broke or 3 see what happens. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Larry. 5 MR. FRIDELL: That's all I needed. Thanks 6 for y'all's time. 7 MR. HILL: If I may speak? 8 JUDGE KELLY: And you are? 9 MR. HILL: I'm Doug Hill. I live in Hunt. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 11 MR. HILL: Property taxes are an issue. And 12 I understand yours is just a small part of what my tax 13 bill is. My problem is, I guess, with money that I pay 14 into my school taxes ends up going other places. And I 15 know y'all don't have any control over that. As like 16 Buddy said, you're elected officials here. If there's 17 any way that y'all can hold Kerr CAD accountable, to go 18 to Austin and voice your opinions -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: It's going to be on the agenda 20 at 11 o'clock. 21 MR. HILL: Okay. That's good. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So you can watch it upstairs. 23 MR. HILL: Yeah. That would be good. I'm 24 interested to look there. But I -- it's all -- it's in 25 Austin is where our problems begin. Y'all are all good 71 1 people. I know most of you. The farmers are here and 2 they're -- they're in trouble. Our youth is in trouble. 3 They'd like to stay here but they're not going to be 4 able to do that. And so whatever y'all can do I think 5 is great. Thank you so much. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Hill. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 8 MR. HILL: Appreciate your service. 9 MR. MATHENY: My name is Mike Matheny. I 10 have a cottage at Hunt on the River Homeowners 11 Association. My wife and I have owned it for over 30 12 years. All of our children have attended the camps and 13 my grandchildren are going there now. I was a lawyer 14 for 50 years. Board certified in family law and 15 criminal law and I was a district court Judge. And I 16 never thought in my practicing career I'd see the 17 conditions that we have now. And I'm not here to 18 complain about it. I think that, from what I've seen, 19 that you're trying to do the best you can with what you 20 got. And your plan is to reason and to unreason and I 21 understand that. And I -- I don't envy your job right 22 now. 23 But in my little situation, they have 24 increased the value of the eight-hundredths of an acre 25 that my little family of us own by 1300 percent in two 72 1 years. That does not comport with logic. Period. It 2 just doesn't. 3 They have valued my eight-hundredths of an 4 acre lot at $1,750,000 an acre. Somebody just misplaced 5 their zeros somewhere. It's just ridiculous. 6 Now, I know you don't have the authority to 7 go tell them what to do. The guy that designed that law 8 was a friend of mine. Because that's just what happened 9 in years past. And a lot of this is just venting. But 10 I'm specifically asking that this Commissioners' Court 11 issue a Resolution that because of the worldwide 12 pandemic, and the millions of people out of work, and 13 the fact we're having to do this by TV, that the tax 14 rates, the valuations should be frozen to the 2019 15 levels until the end of this pandemic. Period. 16 And that you should make that recommendation 17 to the appraisal board and every other entity in this 18 County that appoints those people on the appraisal board 19 should make the same thing. Now, if they don't do that, 20 I'm requesting that you, as responsible people, because 21 I've watched this Commissioners' Court. You have the 22 best road system of any county in Central Texas, and 23 probably in the whole State of Texas, period. You have 24 common sense. That's all I'm asking you to do. And in 25 the event that common sense does not prevail and that 73 1 that property has gone up 1,300 percent in two years and 2 that my little place is worth -- the acreage is one 3 thousand -- I mean $1,750,000, well then, we should all 4 argue about that, whenever this pandemic is over. And 5 if they won't be reasonable and won't freeze the rates, 6 I'm asking you, as responsible stewards of the 7 taxpayers' money of this County, to keep your budget the 8 same as it was in 2019. If you do that, you can 9 counteract most of the affect of this unreasonableness 10 that's occurred. And I know you're all about venting 11 and everything and I -- and I -- I appreciate your time 12 and your interest. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Well, Mr. Matheny, let me 14 inform you that we are trying to balance that budget. 15 We have a workshop this afternoon, at 1:30 I believe it 16 is -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Two. 18 JUDGE KELLY: 2:00? Two o'clock. And we're 19 trying to do exactly what you're asking us to do. 20 MR. MATHENY: Well then, I learned as a 21 lawyer I oughta shut up then. Thank you very much. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You said one thing. 23 You said a resolution pertaining to tax rate in 24 directing that toward KCAD. Well, you're an attorney, 25 you know they don't do anything with tax rates and -- 74 1 MR. MATHENY: No, sir. I didn't -- if I 2 said tax rate I misspoke. I meant the appraisal 3 rates -- 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 5 MR. MATHENY: -- for all of the real estate 6 in this County be frozen. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. A 8 resolution pertaining to the appraised values? 9 MR. MATHENY: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Gotcha. All 11 right. I think it's -- it's a good idea. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I like it myself. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Good idea. 14 MR. MATHENY: Thank y'all very much. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You bet. 16 MR. MATHENY: Keep up the good work. Don't 17 let everybody bring you down. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Are you going to draft 19 the resolution for us? 20 MR. MATHENY: I could do that. If I get 21 somebody to type it. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want to listen 23 to your friend, you can sit right there. 24 MR. MATHENY: Okay. Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: You must be Mr. Howard? 75 1 MR. HOWARD: Yes, sir, I am. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Because I know who Mr. Murphy 3 is. 4 MR. HOWARD: I have a statement here that 5 was given to me by a landowner in our area out there. I 6 could read it to you or I could give you a copy of that 7 and I have my own statement. I was wondering how you 8 wanted to receive that. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You've got three 10 minutes. Whatever you -- 11 MR. HOWARD: Three minutes however I do it, 12 huh? Well, I'll tell you what. Let me give you a copy 13 of his and mine is relation -- is related to that. Oh, 14 I'm sorry. Here. Does each one want a copy? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can hang onto your 16 last one. I'll make some copies. 17 MR. HOWARD: This is Mr. Nelson's. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Thank you. 19 MR. HOWARD: My name is Jim Howard, and I'm 20 a new resident to Kerr County. I came to Kerr County in 21 1962 when I was in high school and went to Mo-Ranch out 22 here. I attended a couple of summers out here at 23 Mo-Ranch and this was in the '60s. And then in 1970, my 24 parents moved to Kerrville here. Lived here for 20 25 years after they retired. And we would come out and 76 1 visit them, bring our children, and always enjoyed our 2 stay out here. Never thought that we would live here, 3 in Kerr County. 4 And then in 2019 or 2018, we started looking 5 for property in this area. And in 2019, we purchased a 6 piece of property just the size that the Judge was 7 talking about previously, and we moved into it. And as 8 we moved into it, we realized that in 2018 the property 9 value -- in fact in 2018, we were looking for the 10 property. In 2019, our property values were increased 11 200 percent. It went from $10,000.00 a lot to 12 $30,000.00 a lot. And we didn't see anything wrong with 13 that and so we went ahead and purchased and here we are. 14 And then I -- we get the tax statement 15 showing that our 3,600 square foot piece of land under 16 our townhouse was going to be valued at $140,000. It's 17 a 1300 percent increase over the 2019 taxes. And so, 18 this has really gotten our attention. I have made a 19 study of other taxable -- other lands in our area. We 20 cannot find it anywhere where this has been matched for 21 our -- our little group. The taxable values for 20 -- 22 I guess my watch is going off. 40 seconds, I'm sorry. 23 Okay. Our taxable value for 3,920 square 24 feet was 140,000 is proposed, and it is a -- it is at 25 $35.71 a square foot. I have a statement here that 77 1 shows comparable values for townhouses in Kerr County. 2 There's no number that comes even close to ours. And it 3 looks to me like the Appraisal District has used 2019 4 conditions, economic conditions, to forecast what 5 they're going to collect in 2020, whereas in 2020, we 6 have been hit by this pandemic. We have a real 7 unemployment rate nationwide of something like 20 8 percent. We purchased our property when the 9 unemployment rate was down less than four percent, which 10 was historical having it that low. 11 The rate that we are now, we're looking at 12 depression time rates for unemployment. Oil prices were 13 reasonable in 2019. In 2020, they have dropped 30 14 something percent. Oil wells are being closed down, 15 capped off. People are being laid off. The -- and so 16 we have a pandemic going on that is not reflected in the 17 appraisals that we've been given. And I know they do it 18 on the first of the year -- January 1st, and conditions 19 were pretty good on January 1st. 20 However, we're -- we're here in July 13, 21 we're wearing masks, we're social distancing, we're not 22 moving about like we used to and all. Things have 23 changed. 24 So I echo the Judge's request that we go to 25 the Appraisal District and we tell the Appraisal 78 1 District that we will hold taxable values at the values 2 they were in 2019. That would be a two hundred percent 3 increase on us, but that's okay. We can take that. But 4 to raise it to the 2020 level of $140,035.71 per square 5 foot, that my 3800 square foot piece of land and my 6 1460-foot building on it, is -- is excessive and I think 7 it is unrealistic and it's unmatched, I think, in the 8 County. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where is your property 10 again? 11 MR. HOWARD: It's at Hunt on the River. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 13 MR. HOWARD: Okay. And we're actually not 14 on the river, but -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 16 MR. HOWARD: -- it's near the river. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Yeah. 18 MR. HOWARD: We have access to it. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you. 20 MR. HOWARD: Thank you. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Howard. Bill 22 Murphy. 23 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, sir. Gentlemen, 24 thank you for taking your valuable time to hear from the 25 many citizens of Kerr County who depend on you to make 79 1 the right decision, not only for the current residents 2 of Kerr County, but for those who will hopefully come to 3 take our place and/or add to the growth of the County in 4 the future. 5 I'm William Murphy. I'm a 75 year young 6 veteran. I've owned property in Kerr County since 1975. 7 And you will find it of interest that I've never felt 8 that you and those who have served before you needed my 9 input. But as of today that has changed. 10 I am here today as the President of Hunt on 11 the River Homeowners Association in Hunt, Texas, which 12 consists of 11 property owners. I am one of those 13 property owners. As you have heard from two of our 14 property owners, the taxing authority has chosen to 15 raise our land under our townhomes a total of 1300 16 percent over the past two years. The nine townhomes we 17 own were built 35 years ago at an approximate cost of 18 $45,000 each, along with a hundred year-old rock home in 19 our development. 20 According to the Appraisal District, we now 21 have, as was pointed out by Mr. Howard, some of the most 22 expensive property per square foot in Kerr County. 23 It is apparent that the Appraisal District 24 is not aware of the worldwide pandemic that is having an 25 impact on all of us here today. I'm wearing a mask to 80 1 protect my fellow citizens. At my age, I am told that 2 if I get the virus, my life will be shortened or ended. 3 Millions of Texans have lost their jobs. Real estate 4 values are in question. Heck, life is in question. 5 Especially if you are one of the categories that makes 6 you a vulnerable person to the virus. Yet the taxing 7 authority wants you to allow them to perpetrate tax 8 increases as much as 367 percent for the new year on 9 property owners while they have failed to send out the 10 information they've used to come up with their numbers 11 to property owners who have requested the information in 12 writing and it has still not been sent to all but one of 13 our property owners. 14 May I also point out again, we are in a 15 world pandemic. And information gathered before 16 February 2020, seems to be less than relevant during 17 these times. I, like Mr. Matheny and Mr. Howard, am 18 requesting that this Board consider freezing all 19 property at the 2019 levels, until the pandemic has run 20 its course and it is no longer having a negative impact 21 on the economy. 22 I thank you for your time and consideration 23 and pray that this pandemic war we are all fighting ends 24 soon. Respectfully, William Murphy. Thank you very, 25 very much. May God bless you. 81 1 JUDGE KELLY: I've only got one more form, 2 Sheriff. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 4 JUDGE KELLY: On this topic I just have one 5 more. Is that right? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We've got one more on 7 this topic? Or is there anymore? 8 Who did you have, Judge? I think we got 9 everybody. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Cynthia Rieck. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Who? 12 JUDGE KELLY: R-I-E-C-K. Cynthia. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: R-I-E-C-K? 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Rieck. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. That's all we 16 have on this agenda item. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let me -- if it appears 18 on the agenda -- let me ask the Commissioners. Is there 19 any comments or discussion you want to have on this 20 topic before we wrap it up and take a break? 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I like the resolution 22 idea. I don't -- I mean, other than us -- how we set 23 our rate, that's all we can do. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. And, 25 you know, if we reduce the rate it's not going to touch 82 1 some of those astronomic deals, I mean you know, as much 2 as we would like it to. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I really like the idea 4 of a resolution. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I do, too. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's a good faith as 7 much as anything. We do have to balance our budget. We 8 have that responsibility. But if we can in good faith 9 reduce the rate, I think we should. We all -- we all 10 agree with that. But whether we can is another issue. 11 JUDGE KELLY: I think we need to listen to 12 our Tax Assessor who would like to talk to us about all 13 the history -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: About what? 15 JUDGE KELLY: The history. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Jonathan has a 17 comment. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have a comment. 19 To me there's two issues. One is the pandemic issue and 20 the way the appraisal system is done, and I don't think 21 -- I mean, I'm interested to hear what Sharon has to 22 say. But I don't think we locally have the authority to 23 change that, but the Legislature and the Governor 24 certainly I think does. And so I think any Resolution 25 we do about that, that should be directed to the 83 1 Legislature and to the Governor. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't agree. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the high increase in 4 ag value, to me, that's a separate issue. And what 5 concerns me on that is that there are, I don't know how 6 many thousand acres people did file a protest, but 7 there's -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: 87,000. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- far more that didn't. 10 And for whatever reason, whether they were sidetracked 11 because of the pandemic, whether they were out of town, 12 and I think that it -- it makes very little sense to me 13 the way it was done. I mean, there's no way that ag 14 values increased from 20 to several hundred percent in a 15 year. 16 I looked into a lot of the comments and I 17 agree with what they said, especially the ones related 18 to ranching and cedar clearing and expenses. I've never 19 really looked into it or understood how that process 20 works. But if they are not taking into account the 21 actual expenses of ranching, then their system is wrong. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You're right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that needs to be 24 corrected. And I think with that said, you know, so I 25 have a -- you know, to me it's not -- it's -- the issue 84 1 is those that filed a protest, hats off to them. I hope 2 they're successful. But my concern is that the 3 thousands of people that didn't file protests for 4 whatever reason that they're going to have to be hit 5 with these higher values that -- with very little 6 justification in my mind. So that's all the comments I 7 have. Thanks. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I will say this is the 10 first year I've ever filed for a protest and I did. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This -- this appears to 12 me to have been done with developers in mind, not 13 ranchers. That's what I heard. As I listened to 14 everybody talk and the increase in rates and what it -- 15 what's required to run a ranch versus what that property 16 is worth if I buy it to put in a couple of roads and put 17 in some houses. That's what I think I heard. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, we'll develop 19 hearing a little bit from them. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Unless there's anymore 21 discussion on this agenda item, we're going to take a 22 break. We'll be in recess for five minutes. We'll be 23 back at ten till eleven, and we'll hear from the Chief 24 Appraiser. Make it ten minutes. 25 (Recess.) 85 1 (Meeting resumed without Court Reporter 2 present.) 3 JUDGE KELLY: So Commissioner Moser made the 4 motion, Commissioner Belew seconded. Any further 5 discussions? Those in favor raise your hand. 6 Unanimous, four zero. 7 1.8 consider, discuss and take appropriate 8 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 9 a.m. on August 24 for a revision of plat for Brown 10 Acres, Lots 1 and 2 in Volume 7. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 14 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 15 approve the public meeting for August 24 at 10 o'clock. 16 Any further discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 17 Unanimous, four zero. 18 MRS. DOWDY: Point of information or point 19 of order. It's your call, Judge. Did we need to call 20 Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 22 JUDGE KELLY: No. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. He's on the 24 phone. 25 MRS. DOWDY: Okay. 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm on the phone. 2 JUDGE KELLY: 1.9 consider, discuss and take 3 appropriate action to set a public hearing for August 4 24th at 10:00 a.m. to abandon, vacate and discontinue 5 all of Lange Lane E., approximately 1.02 acres(sic). 6 MR. HASTINGS: May I speak on that? 7 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 8 MR. HASTINGS: We'd like to only abandon and 9 discontinue this road; we don't want to vacate it. And 10 I apologize when I turned in my agenda bill, I didn't -- 11 didn't have that clear. 12 JUDGE KELLY: So it would be to abandon and 13 discontinue that road? 14 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. And it would be 15 setting a public hearing. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 21 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 22 approve the abandonment and discontinuation of Lange 23 Lane E. Any other discussion? Those in favor raise 24 your hand. Unanimous, four zero. 25 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 87 1 action to rescind Court Order No. 38161 regarding the 2 Texas Department of Transportation County Transportation 3 Infrastructure Fund Grant Award. Mr. Hastings. 4 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. If we could 5 please rescind the Court Order that approved the Judge 6 signing the agreement. The agreement's not ready. We 7 need to have a Resolution to go with that agreement and 8 we'll bring that at a future agenda date. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move for approval. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 12 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 13 rescind Court Order 38161. Any other discussion about 14 it? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 15 Okay. So that's got all of yours, Charlie? 16 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. Thank you. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you for your patience. 18 MR. HASTINGS: You're welcome. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Miss Lantz, I've got 11 20 o'clock. Can we do yours pretty quickly? 21 MS. LANTZ: Yeah. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And I'm going to call 23 1.11 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 24 set a public hearing on August 13th at 10:00 a.m. to be 25 held in the Commissioner's Courtroom for the purpose of 88 1 presenting the Kerr County District Court Records and 2 Archive Plan for fiscal year 2020-2021. Miss Lantz. 3 MS. LANTZ: It's just setting a public 4 hearing for that date. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. Go ahead. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 9 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 10 set a public hearing for the Kerr County District Court 11 Records Archival Plan. Any further discussion? Those 12 in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, four zero. 13 MRS. LANTZ: Thank you. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Record time. 15 Reagan, is yours quick? 16 MR. GIVENS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE KELLY: 1.12 consider, discuss and 18 take appropriate action to accept recent donations from 19 three citizens, and multiple items from Kendall County 20 Animal Services. Reagan Givens. 21 MR. GIVENS: Good morning. I just come in 22 here with some donations that we got totaling $70 from 23 three individuals, one of which was in memory of an 24 Aaron Trey Shackelford, so I wanted to read that in 25 Commissioners' Court. 89 1 And then we also were contacted by Kendall 2 County Animal Services, and they were getting rid of 3 quite a few items that were still in working order that 4 would be beneficial for us. So some cat banks, they're 5 called, stainless steel for cats in the cat room to hold 6 them. Kennels. Some other types of cages that we can 7 use for different situations, and a stainless steel 8 table, and some beds for the animals that were in decent 9 shape. So -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Good. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 14 Commissioner Harris to accept the recent donations from 15 three citizens, and the multiple items from Kendall 16 County Animal Services. Seconded by Commissioner Moser? 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 19 in favor raise your hand. Four zero, unanimous. 20 Okay. James, let's try to finish you up. 21 1.13 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 22 purchase handheld electrostatic disinfecting sprayers. 23 MR. ROBLES: Yes. This is just to start the 24 discussion. We had a couple of departments requesting 25 to buy disinfecting sprayers and we just wanted to kind 90 1 of clarify it. One, if that's what the Court wants to 2 do, how many should we purchase, who should use it, and 3 how often? And those kind of questions. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I had asked Shane to 5 get with the -- some different departments last week. 6 And I think he has that information. Is Shane out 7 there? 8 MR. EVANS: Good morning, gentlemen. We've 9 had some questions about a sprayer to help sanitize or 10 disinfect the courthouse. There are several people 11 asking for one. And I do have some information in 12 regards to that. The company name is Hotsy Carlson, and 13 it's a handheld electrostatic sprayer. The cost of one 14 is $764 each. They also have a backpack sprayer for 15 $1,844.00. 16 And the disinfecting -- or the product is a 17 Vital Oxide, comes in 1, 5, or 55 gallons. The backpack 18 sprayer would be something that could be used -- 19 utilized at the AG barn. When we had a sales rep come 20 out, one of the guys from the Global Spectrum had come 21 out and watched the demonstration. They would be 22 interested probably in a backpack sprayer given the 23 large size of the facility that they would be spraying. 24 We also with just a handheld sprayer, it 25 took ten minutes to do all of courtroom one. That was 91 1 just spraying all the seats, the handrails, the 2 countertops, equipment. And you can actually spray the 3 equipment with it. 4 One of the deals with it, though, because 5 when we asked the questions, it says it is EPA approved 6 to fight COVID-19. However, there are no kill claims 7 with any of the products -- you know, claiming that it 8 kills COVID. There are really no kill claims. But it's 9 EPA approved to fight COVID-19. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: When -- when would 11 these things be used? 12 JUDGE KELLY: Right away. 13 MR. EVANS: Right after -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, I'm saying at 15 night, just before court begins or what? 16 MR. EVANS: You could use it before court. 17 Go in there and spray, take your ten minutes and 18 allow -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. But let 20 me -- the reason I ask is because we've discussed this 21 before, you know, cleaning everything at night. Well, 22 you know, all the science -- quote, all the science says 23 if a surface like that left for hours is without the 24 virus, is going to die. So if we're cleaning everything 25 at night, it's probably not doing any good, okay. So if 92 1 it's right before, I can see some benefit in it. Okay. 2 But -- so that's the question. People want it to use 3 when? 4 MR. EVANS: Immediately. Like, say after -- 5 you know, per the Court, you know, when they're done 6 with a -- with a case and they change to do another 7 one -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 MR. EVANS: -- you could go in there and 10 take 10 minutes to spray. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. That 12 makes sense. 13 MR. EVANS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What is this 15 electrostatic thing? What does that mean? 16 MR. EVANS: It -- the electrostatic is a 17 battery powered handheld device that it will shoot a 18 really fine mist and you can -- we used -- he put his -- 19 a tank that he used held a quart. And we covered 20 everything with a half of a quart in that courtroom one. 21 So you can do a fine -- a very fine mist or, if you 22 needed to, like in -- and it can kill molds and other 23 stuff like that. You can use that on a heavier -- a 24 heavier setting and really kind of hose it down to do 25 that. 93 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, is this a 2 rechargeable battery? 3 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So you leave it 5 at night, recharge, and then you use it the next day? 6 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And this is $764 per 8 department? 9 MR. EVANS: Per unit. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Per unit. So how many 11 -- people are going to share them or what -- what are we 12 talking about? 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That was the question 14 I posed to him. What other departments would want it? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I would think one 17 would need to be here if we got one to stay in the 18 courthouse. But then, you know, if West Kerr -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Why don't we look and 20 see how many we need, okay, and then come back? 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, if you had one 22 here, one at the AG barn and one at the annex, would 23 that be -- 24 MR. EVANS: One -- at least a backpack 25 sprayer for the AG barn. 94 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: AG barn. That makes 2 sense. 3 MR. EVANS: Because of the heavy flow and 4 large volume that would need it. And I think for -- at 5 least two for the courthouse, you know, because if you 6 do have two courtrooms going on at the same time, you -- 7 to minimize the amount of time it would take to get it 8 taken care of. And plus, there are offices that have 9 indicated that they would like to do that occasionally 10 throughout the day, themselves, on their own if they 11 wanted to. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Now, Shane -- when we 13 had the workshop with the VFD and VSO, I know one of the 14 guys came through in between workshops and sprayed down 15 every chair. So is this -- what are they utilizing now? 16 MR. EVANS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: One of those? 18 MR. EVANS: Maybe something similar to that. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, we need to find 20 out. I mean, do they need backpack or do they have 21 something they're comfortable with now? You know, 22 because they did come through there. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They have something. 24 They helped us with the early voting. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 95 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They have something 2 like this already. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, they may already 5 have one? 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Because they -- 7 they sprayed down every chair in between the VFD and 8 VSO. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Look, instead of us 10 sitting here real time and figuring out how many we 11 need, why don't we come back and recommend how many we 12 need? 13 (Talking over) 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Come back with that, 15 Shane. 16 JUDGE KELLY: We'll put it back on the 17 agenda. 18 MRS. LANTZ: Road & Bridge does have one and 19 then -- 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes, they do. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 22 MRS. LANTZ: -- so it is important we get 23 one, especially in the courtrooms. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're going to come 25 back and see. 96 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Agreed. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. For those people that 3 are upstairs in the courtroom waiting to talk on item 4 1.5, we have a timed item that was scheduled for 11 5 o'clock that we're going to take it, and it relates to 6 I believe it was item 1.4, which is our presentation 7 from the Kerr Central Appraisal District representatives 8 regarding the appraised values in Kerr County. 9 And sitting out here in the hallway will be 10 our Chief Appraiser for the Kerr County Appraisal 11 District, Sharon Constantinides, and she'll introduce 12 the people she has with her. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. When she gets 14 here bring her in. You can come on in now. 15 JUDGE KELLY: But the people that are 16 waiting upstairs, we're going to get back to you just as 17 soon as we finish up with this. 18 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Is it okay if I take 19 this off while I'm talking? 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. Yeah, that's part of the 21 Governor's Order. 22 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Okay. Whenever y'all 23 are ready or -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: We're ready. 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Oh, okay. My name is 97 1 Sharon Constantinides, I'm the Chief Appraiser from the 2 Kerr Central Appraisal District. I'll give you a little 3 bit of history on myself too. I grew up here in Kerr 4 County on a ranch in West Kerr, along with my sisters, 5 so I can understand what the ranchers are talking about. 6 I deal with coyotes, hogs, all that stuff also. I moved 7 away for awhile when I first got married but I came back 8 home, and this is my home. And anyway, that's just kind 9 of a little bit of information about me. 10 I've been doing Appraisal District stuff 11 since '85, so I'm considered an old timer. Not a whole 12 bunch of us left anymore. 13 I know y'all had some questions on how we 14 arrived at the values and that. I have with me today 15 Carla Pope-Osborne, she is from Perdue. She used to 16 work at one time for the Comptroller's Office and now 17 she works for the law firm that represents us and also 18 the tax office. And she knows all the calculations. 19 She's got a bunch of documents that she can give us -- 20 you also, so I'm going to go ahead and let her take over 21 and then -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: Go ahead and introduce 23 everybody you've brought with you. 24 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Oh, I'm sorry. This is 25 Annie Edenfield, she's my AG Appraiser, and she also has 98 1 ranching background and that. Her and her former 2 husband have a -- they still have a ranch in Rock 3 Springs. 4 MS. EDENFIELD: Yes. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And as you get ready to make 6 these presentations, I just want the public to know that 7 I have visited with y'all out in the hallway and y'all 8 have been listening to the YouTube on all this, so 9 you're -- 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes, I have. 11 JUDGE KELLY: -- you've heard what we've 12 been listening to. So with that, Ms. Osborne. 13 And for those folks that don't know Perdue, 14 that is the law firm in Austin that also represents our 15 Tax Office. 16 Yes, Ma'am. 17 MS. OSBORNE: Hi there. 18 JUDGE KELLY: You've got a lot of excited 19 people waiting with baited breath. 20 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Oh, I bet. Yes. Well, 21 like Sharon said, my name is Carla Pope-Osborne. You 22 can see my business card in that packet of information 23 that I gave you. Just a little bit about my background 24 is I do have a Bachelor's and Master's Degree in 25 agricultural economics from Sam Houston State 99 1 University. And I worked for the State Property Tax 2 Board and the Comptroller of Public Accounts for a long 3 time, actually in the land department, calculating the 4 productivity values for school districts. And then I 5 left the Comptroller's Office and I went to work for 6 Perdue Brandon Fielder law firm. 7 The main thing I do is represent school 8 districts on the school funding at state. But I am 9 certified to teach the appraisal of agricultural land 10 for the Texas Association of Appraisal Districts, so 11 I've been doing this a long time. 12 So what I want to do with y'all today is 13 just really kind of go over with you the Property Tax 14 Code that governs the valuation of agricultural land. 15 And so what you have there in your packet, let me just 16 kind of go over this with you. 17 So on the left-hand side of the packet 18 there's -- I just made a couple of copies. It's called 19 A Manual for the Appraisal of Agricultural Land. Every 20 property owner in the State of Texas, or really 21 wherever, you can go on the Comptroller's website and 22 you can download the entire manual. I didn't see any 23 need to do that. I just downloaded the part that I'm 24 going to discuss with you today. Okay. But it's about 25 a 75 page booklet. And it -- and it goes over what 100 1 different topics deal with AG use values. 2 Also, one thing that you have in your packet 3 on the left, behind that manual, is a document that I 4 asked Sharon to put together from Kerr CAD. And it goes 5 to show you the different school districts in the county 6 and what the estimated increase in taxes are per acre. 7 And the main thing I wanted her to show is 8 the land market value. Because there's a significant 9 difference between the market value of land and the 10 productivity valuation of land. 11 And so you can see -- I asked her to break 12 it down by school district. I -- I deal in school 13 districts. That that world versus real accounting. So 14 I wanted it broken down by school district so that you 15 can see. And then you can see how many surveys that the 16 Appraisal District sends out asking property owners that 17 own property in Kerr County about different topics 18 involving agricultural land. 19 You also will see on the right-hand side of 20 this packet, the first item you'll see, it's labeled 21 Kerr County Productivity Information, Texas Comptroller 22 of Public Accounts, the Property Tax Division. So I 23 just want to give you a little bit of background on this 24 property value study that the comptroller of public 25 accounts does. 101 1 Every year the Comptroller's Office does a 2 property value study. And that study is to determine 3 school funding for approximately 1100 school districts 4 in the State of Texas. They study things like houses, 5 land, apartments, commercial property. And one area 6 that they study is the appraisal of agricultural land. 7 What is the productivity valuation by school district 8 for each county in the State of Texas. And it 9 definitely can have an impact on a school district's 10 school funding. 11 So what you have here, this first two pages 12 I've given you is the 27 page study. Every -- the State 13 does not study every single Appraisal District every 14 year. They do it every other year. So in 2017 -- I 15 gave you 2017 year -- this is a look at Kerr County, 16 meaning for Kerr. 17 So when you're looking at that document, 18 you'll see it says land class, with all the different 19 land classes that the state recognizes. Second column 20 is number of acres. Third column, it says the reported 21 values per acre. So the number of acres, that comes 22 directly from the Appraisal District. The Appraisal 23 District -- every Appraisal District in the state 24 reports to the Comptroller's Office once a year, how 25 much land is qualified in each land class. 102 1 So in 2017, for an example, there was 2 471,634 acres qualified for native pasture. The 3 Appraisal District had native pasture average $59.62 an 4 acre, for a value of 28.1 million. Comptroller's Office 5 says we don't think $59.62 is accurate. We believe that 6 native pasture value in 2017 in Kerr County should be 7 $67.30, and that would equal out to $31.7 million an 8 acre. 9 So you can see down at the bottom of the 10 page for the county, the Comptroller's Office property 11 tax division reported that they felt like Kerr CAD was 12 appraising agricultural land at 89 percent. 13 Now, bear in mind for a school district to 14 pass the property value study overall, and I'm talking 15 about houses, land, commercial, AG land, oil and gas, 16 overall the appraisal -- the school district has to be 17 at 95 percent. So that's just -- we'll talk a little 18 bit about -- more about that in a second here. 19 So if you turn the second page, in 2019, 20 Kerr County, per CAD, had another property value study. 21 So you can see native pasture, now we have 445,328 acres 22 qualified for AG use in 2019. The average value per 23 acre of native pasture was $60, and Comptroller's Office 24 says nope, we do not believe $60 is accurate. We 25 believe that the value for native pasture in Kerr County 103 1 should be 77. And you can do the comparisons side by 2 side to see for each land class. So that's a look at 3 what it looks like for the County. 4 Now, you also -- the second set of documents 5 you have on that left-hand side -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can I ask you a 7 question on the first set? 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes. Absolutely yes, 9 sir. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So where is 2018 in 11 here? You have '17 and '19. 12 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Right. Because the 13 Comptroller's Office did not do a study in 2018. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So that -- okay. 15 That's -- 16 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That occurs every other 17 year. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask you a 19 question now. 20 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. On '17 -- 22 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Uh-huh? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- if I look at the 24 bottom line, it increased ten percent. Okay. Over a 25 reported value versus -- what's PTAD, is that -- 104 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That's the property tax 2 division of the Comptroller's Office. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So they -- they 4 increased it by ten percent. Okay. Over what -- over 5 what the appraised value was. 37 million to 42 million. 6 Okay. Ten percent, ballpark. In 2019, they increased 7 it by 23 percent. Why? 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, we're going to get 9 to that. Just one second. We're going to get to the 10 calculations of all this, okay? 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. But it's got to 12 -- it's got to pass a reasonableness test. There needs 13 to be something fundamental. 14 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And we're going to -- and 15 we'll talk about that, I promise. 16 The next set of documents I have for you is 17 -- this is for the 2019 property value study. These 18 studies run a year behind, so the 2019 value -- property 19 value study was released on January 31st of 2020. These 20 2019 values will be certified to the Texas Education 21 Agency for school funding purposes on August 15th. 22 So on this set of documents, I just printed 23 it out by school districts. The school districts Center 24 Point, Hunt, Ingram, Kerrville. So y'all could see the 25 number of acres qualified for AG use in each school 105 1 district. 2 Once again, the Appraisal District value per 3 acre by school district and then what the opinion of the 4 Comptroller's Office is. You'll notice on some 5 categories like orchards, the state doesn't do an 6 orchard study. What -- whatever the Appraisal District 7 has it on the roll for, the state's going to agree with 8 that. So that's why you see those two numbers, like on 9 orchards being identical. 10 So like I said, this is a -- just a 11 breakdown by school district so that you could see for 12 the areas that y'all represent what the Comptroller's 13 Office is showing for AG land. 14 The next set of documents that you see here 15 says Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts. And this is 16 dated that was received by -- from Kerr Central 17 Appraisal District. Once again, the Comptroller of 18 Public Accounts, there are certain documents that they 19 request that the Appraisal District sends to them, 20 annually, and they always ask the Appraisal Districts to 21 fill out a survey and to provide the Comptroller's 22 Office with any actual data that they may have. So that 23 -- so that's what this is. 24 This is data, like I said, survey that Kerr 25 CAD sent out, and the responses that they got from those 106 1 surveys. And -- and this was data, once again, that was 2 submitted to the Comptroller's Office. 3 The next set of documents really, and this 4 is where we're going to -- Mr. Moser, we're going to get 5 to some of your questions. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 7 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: It's labeled 2019 8 property productivity study, Comptroller's Office. And 9 so, if we look at that first page, for the cover page, 10 it says recap of Kerr County. And this gives you a look 11 at both dry crop land and free pasture and native 12 pasture. 13 So -- so what this is, is showing us the net 14 to land. After we've taken out all of our expenses, all 15 of the gross, what the net is and then what we're 16 applying the capitalization rate to to get our value per 17 acre, productivity value per are for tax purposes. 18 So you can see for the 2019 tax year, and 19 this is the most important thing, I think that sometimes 20 certainly, I think landowners -- it's just not something 21 they probably think about. So for, you know, right now, 22 landowners are thinking about 2020, and what's been 23 happening in 2020. For agricultural purposes, for 24 productivity valuation, 2020 is not even being looked 25 at. In order for -- and this is in the property tax 107 1 code. It's in that document that's on the left-hand 2 side of your page. It talks about the five-year 3 average. 4 So when calculating 2020 values, the 5 five-year average that the Appraisal District has to 6 use, the comptroller has to use, is 2014 through 2018. 7 2019 and 2020 are irrelevant in the calculation of 2020 8 values for agricultural purposes. Okay. Appraisal 9 Districts cannot consider 2020. They can't consider 10 2019. They can only consider 2014 through 2018 for the 11 calculation of agricultural values for the 2020 12 appraisal year. So this -- what you're looking at here 13 is 2019. So in 2019, the five-year average was 2013 14 through 2017. 15 So if you turn to the second page of that -- 16 of this document, it says pasture land. Okay. So the 17 main thing really, I think people are probably most 18 upset here is going to be really about native pasture, 19 right? So you see for the 2019 study, native pasture -- 20 and these are the State's numbers, okay? This is the -- 21 these are the results of the property value study for 22 the 2019 property value study that's used in the school 23 funding formulas. 24 So you'll see 2013 through 2017. That's the 25 five-year average that was used for the 2019 property 108 1 value study and that the Appraisal District had to use 2 for calculation of value for the 2019 tax year. 3 So you will see the first part of that is 4 income. So you see the lease rate is the grazing lease 5 rate per acre. Gross. So you see in 2014, it was four 6 dollars an acre, and then starting '14, '15, '16 and 7 '17, the average typical grazing lease rate was five 8 dollars an acre. This is countywide. 9 Okay, then the second part of income, and 10 this is in the property Tax Code, any outside additional 11 income that comes in, such as hunting, up in the 12 panhandle they do a lot of grazing, wheat grazing, that 13 goes into the calculation of income. So hunting income 14 in 2013, you can see, was $6.00, the State went up to 15 seven in '14. In '15 they want to $9.00 and in '16 and 16 '17 they're at $10.00. So then you see the total income 17 -- that's a gross number. Okay. So it ranges from ten 18 all the way to fifteen. And beside that, you can see 19 the -- all of the surrounding counties. So that you can 20 compare Kerr County to some of your neighbors. And you 21 can see what the State is using for grazing and then you 22 can see what they're using for hunting. 23 So then we get down to expenses. Because in 24 order to get the net to land for us to be able to apply 25 the capitalization rate to to get our taxable value per 109 1 acre, we've got to take out expenses. So then you see 2 taxes. This is simply what -- now, what the 3 Comptroller's Office does, like set the tax rate of all 4 the school districts and the County and we get an 5 average tax rate. So you can see the taxes. 6 Fencing. The State does a statewide fencing 7 survey. They break it down by region. Some Appraisal 8 Districts use that same data that the Comptroller's 9 Office provides. They will provide that information to 10 Appraisal Districts. I certainly know -- I provide that 11 data to a lot of our clients for them to use. 12 Well water. Once again, that data that the 13 Comptroller's Office collects, they get a lot of 14 information from the Texas A&M Extension Service. 15 Management costs. The State uses seven 16 percent of the gross to take out for a management 17 expense. 18 Brush control -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Seven percent of gross 20 -- gross what? 21 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: The gross income. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Gross income. Okay. 23 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That's it. Gross income. 24 Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 110 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Then you can see we take 2 out brush control. Once again, there's a lot of data 3 out there available by region. A&M Extension Service 4 provides a whole lot of information. And then just 5 recently, the last couple years, the State has started 6 deducting from that a hunting lease license. That data 7 comes from parks and wildlife. 8 I also want to share with you all, when we 9 get back up to looking at gross income on hunting 10 information, there's -- there's a lot of data that the 11 Texas parks and wildlife does that they have out there, 12 and the Comptroller's Office gets a lot of data from the 13 Texas parks and wildlife on -- on hunting and what 14 people are charging per acre in the State of Texas. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: How does parks and 16 wildlife get that information? 17 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: If you are a -- if your 18 land is registered with them -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, what if it's not 20 registered? 21 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, then they won't 22 have it. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 24 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Not every single person 25 in every county is going to register their land. 111 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What percentage is 2 registered? 3 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: I do not know. In some 4 counties it's going to be a lot higher than others. But 5 I don't -- I don't have that number. I -- I don't. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sharon? This is Johnson 7 Letz. That's not accurate. I mean, the fact that 8 you're in a parks and wildlife program, I have never -- 9 and we are -- we have never been asked our acreage. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's my point 11 exactly. 12 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, I can certainly get 13 that data and provide it to y'all. I mean, I'll have to 14 get it from the Comptroller. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I mean, a lot of people 16 are not in their programs. 17 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: I -- I understand. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's your only 19 source? 20 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: No, it -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- 22 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- is not the State's 23 only source. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We work with Parks and 25 Wildlife regularly and they have never asked for ours. 112 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, I -- once again, I 2 can get the data and provide it to the Commissioners. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have one other 4 fundamental question. 5 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: This is what the State 7 does. Why would the State not have an incentive or be 8 advised to increase the value as much as they can? It's 9 no skin off the elected officials in Austin's back. It 10 goes down to the County. Why -- what is their reason 11 for not increasing it by a lot? 12 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, you know, let me 13 explain this. The Comptroller's Office and the property 14 tax division, they're going to follow the Property Tax 15 Code just like Appraisal Districts are supposed to. 16 Okay. If an Appraisal District choose to not raise 17 values of, let's say, houses or land or agricultural 18 land, commercial properties, what will end up happening 19 is the school districts will end up suffering. They 20 will end up having school funding problems. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's a lawful 22 issue. 23 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the school 25 districts are lawful. 113 1 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 2 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- the school districts 3 get funding from the State of Texas. The majority -- 4 well, it's not the majority anymore. It's probably 60 5 percent -- or it used to be, it's not now. Used to be 6 60 percent basically came from local, about 40 percent 7 from the State. 8 Under House Bill 3 now, what the schools are 9 under now, is a little bit different percentage. Once 10 again, the Comptroller's Office, you know, and we're -- 11 now we're getting off into some other areas. But as 12 y'all all know, the Comptroller's Office comes in and 13 does a performance review of the Appraisal Districts 14 called a MAPS program. And if the Appraisal Districts 15 aren't following what they're supposed to be following 16 in the Tax Code, then the Appraisal District gets 17 written up, chief appraiser gets turned in to the Texas 18 Department of Licensing and Regulation and they can have 19 their license removed. So it is more of a performance 20 audit to make sure that the Appraisal Districts are 21 following the law. If they have all the documents that 22 there supposed to have. If they -- and one of the 23 questions is, is the Appraisal Districts using the 24 proper five-year average in calculating agricultural 25 values. 114 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One other -- and I 2 don't want to hog it but -- 3 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- one other 5 fundamental thing. Why does Sharon care what the 6 Comptroller's Office guidelines are? 7 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, for one, she 8 doesn't want her school district having school 9 funding at stake. But she's -- she's registered with 10 the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation. She 11 has to follow the Property Tax Code. That's -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or they'll remove 13 her -- 14 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: She would be turning -- 15 that's the law. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So the law says Sharon 17 has got to follow -- 18 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: The Property Tax Code. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- what the guidelines 20 are? 21 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That's correct. Yes, 22 sir. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Even though they're 24 guidelines. 25 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: The Property Tax Code is 115 1 not a guideline. It is -- it is the law of the State of 2 Texas. And that document, that manual on the appraisal 3 of agricultural land is adopted by the Comptroller's 4 Office, and it is -- it is the law for appraising land 5 that is qualified for agricultural use. But I'll get 6 y'all information on hunting. I'll -- 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- I'll e-mail that to 9 you. I'll get that information from -- but that is not 10 the only source. Trust me. We're going to talk about 11 other sources here in a second about hunting. We 12 already talked about one source. 13 The Appraisal District sends out surveys, 14 and people fill out that survey about what they're 15 getting for per acre for grazing and for hunting. 16 So what this is, once again, it's just a 17 snapshot of the five-year average that was used in the 18 2019 study, and then you can see also your surrounding 19 counties. Kerr County for 2019 was a little bit lower 20 than what Gillespie and Kendall, certainly more in line 21 with Real. 22 The next page that you don't have here, you 23 don't have -- you have a little bit of dry crop land. 24 The same concept. Y'all have cash leases here. So you 25 can see what the cash lease per acre is on dry crop 116 1 land. And so the rest of these documents you don't -- 2 you don't do what's called share leasing here. And so 3 that gives you an idea of the actual study that the 4 State does on -- on your Appraisal District. 5 The other documents that you have behind 6 you, the Comptroller's Office sends out every year, 7 you've got 2018 through 2015 surveys. I'm certainly not 8 going to go through every survey. But the Comptroller's 9 Office sends out a survey every year to the Chief 10 Appraiser's Office, the Agricultural Advisory Board, 11 your County Extension Agent. They often send it to the 12 Farm Service Agency. 13 So this document asks for lease rates. It 14 asks for expenses, and they use this tool in order to 15 help calculate values. So they send this out, like I 16 said, every year. And then they compare, once again, 17 because there are some counties that don't -- they don't 18 turn this in. Ag advisory board won't turn this in. 19 What happens when an Appraisal District or AG advisory 20 board doesn't submit this survey, then the State is 21 going to use data from your surrounding counties. 22 Because many -- many counties do have very active, 23 agricultural advisory boards and they will turn these 24 surveys in. 25 So that's the data that I -- I have here for 117 1 you all. Once again, I just want to stress the 2020 2 appraisal year, the one that we're in right now, the 3 last year of the five-year average is 2018. This 2020 4 year will not be looked at until the 2022 appraisal 5 year. Okay. So in 2021, we will -- we'll drop off 6 2014, we'll add 2019. 7 And then, like I said, every year you drop 8 off a year, and then you -- and then you add a year. 9 Once again, that's in the Property Tax Code. It's not 10 up for debate. I mean, that -- that is the law. The 11 Comptroller's Office, The State of Texas also gives 12 every Appraisal District the capitalization rate to use. 13 That is something that, once again, it's not debatable. 14 It -- that number is what that number is. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Everything else has 16 been changed this year. Anything you can imagine has 17 been changed this year because of this virus. Now 18 you're saying this can't be changed. And people who are 19 considered nonessential businesses and all kinds of 20 other stuff that's happened this year, but this can't be 21 changed? 22 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: It -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This -- this needs to 24 be changed. And I know you can't do that. And I know 25 that's your go-to. This can't be changed, it's written 118 1 in stone. But every damn thing else has been changed, 2 and we might need to look at changing this, and having a 3 special session in the Legislature is what I think. 4 MR. REEVES: Judge, if I may? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. This is Bob Reeves, our 6 Tax Assessor. 7 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yeah. 8 MR. REEVES: Excuse me, Carla. 9 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: I -- I know him. 10 MR. REEVES: Your question, Commissioner -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was a statement, 12 Bob. 13 MR. REEVES: Question, statement. I'm not 14 disputing it. Matter of fact, many professional 15 organizations that I'm a member of, as Sharon, sent 16 letters to the Governor, and the Governor said no. And 17 I've got a copy. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 'Cuz the Governor 19 wants to get paid and he doesn't care if the lady at the 20 beauty shop gets paid. 21 MR. REEVES: Well, I'm just -- I'm just -- 22 I'm not trying to debate with you. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I know. I'm having my 24 say. 25 MR. REEVES: I understand. And I'm just 119 1 saying that the association, many entities, our 2 neighbors across the street even sent one. I called 3 Representative Murr's office on the same thing. The 4 Governor's response was no, and he put it back on the 5 governing boards to lower the tax rates to balance it 6 out. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The governing boards 8 what? 9 MR. REEVES: Commissioners' Court, City 10 Council. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Right. So I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you for sharing 13 that. 14 JUDGE KELLY: I feel as though I got lost in 15 the weeds here. We've got way too much detail and not a 16 -- I need a helicopter to get the big picture a little 17 bit better. You listen to the people's complaints that 18 we listened to this morning -- 19 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And I did not. I was -- 20 I was driving in from Austin. So -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, they're complaining 22 about horrendous percentage increases. And what I'm 23 hearing is -- so far is all of the values that they're 24 complaining about are really 2018 values, not even 2020 25 values. 120 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: For the calculation of 2 productivity land for the 2020 appraisal year, the 3 Appraisal District had to use a five-year average that 4 consisted of the appraisal year 2014 through 2018. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 6 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: So the 2013 year was 7 dropped off and the 2018 year was added. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- I understand the 9 five-year averages. 10 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes. 11 JUDGE KELLY: But these people are 12 complaining about the appraisals that they just 13 received. 14 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Right. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 16 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And so -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: And what you're telling us, is 18 this -- the appraised values that they're complaining 19 about were from a couple years ago, 2014 through 2018, 20 five-year average. 21 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, clearly their 2020 22 appraisal notice, if they -- let's say they have -- 23 let's say you have a thousand acres of native pasture. 24 Your 2020 appraisal notice would have shown an increase 25 of productivity value per acre increased in native 121 1 pasture than what it was in the 2019 appraisal year. 2 Because when we dropped off 2013, and we added 2018, the 3 value per acre for grazing was greater in 2018 -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 5 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- and the value per acre 6 for hunting was greater in 2018. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: So the -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: But -- but these people need 10 -- and they're watching. 11 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE KELLY: They're complaining. They're 13 upset. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They should be. 15 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and I think what I'm 16 hearing you say is that what they're complaining about 17 doesn't even come close to reflecting 2020 values? 18 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: For agricultural 19 productivity valuations, yes, sir, that's accurate. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Because it's a five-year 21 average and that was from '14 through '18? 22 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That's correct. 23 JUDGE KELLY: So that's what they're 24 complaining about is those -- the five-year average for 25 that period of time. 122 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: I'm -- I'm assuming so. 2 JUDGE KELLY: And we haven't even seen '19 3 or '20. 4 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes. I'm assuming that's 5 what they're complaining about. Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me go back to your 7 first page here. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 9 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That would probably be 10 the Appraisal District that might need to address 11 that -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well -- well, let's 13 talk about that, whoever it is. And I'm just going to 14 choose one. Center Point ISD, 2020 estimate increase in 15 taxes per -- per acre based on 2019 tax rate. Everybody 16 with me? I'll wait until you find it. 17 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. I found it. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's -- 19 (Talking over) 20 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: I have it. Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 43 cents per 22 acre increased to a $1.37 per acre. That's a factor of 23 3.2 in one year. Wait a minute, Sharon. Then land 24 market value, same thing, goes up by a factor of six. 25 Why? That's ridiculous. That's absurd. 123 1 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Okay. Now -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's unconscionable. 3 That's unrealistic. 4 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: The market value we 5 have to appraise as of January 1st. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I can't understand you. 7 Take your mask off. 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Certainly. On the 9 market values of homes and land, we have to appraise as 10 of January the 1st. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: And the appraisals 13 would have to be based on the time before COVID came 14 out. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm not talking about 16 COVID; I'm talking about an increase of six in one year. 17 A factor of six. 18 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It's based on market, 19 what people are paying here in Kerr County. That's what 20 we have to use. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's not true. That 22 is not -- nobody's house went up by a factor of six. 23 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, we might have 24 been under appraised on some property. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well then you didn't do 124 1 your job before. 2 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, we have 40,000 3 accounts, and there's a total of 11 of us in the office. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't care about 5 that; I care about reasonableness. That's not even 6 reasonable. 7 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: We have to appraise on 8 what it was January first. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's not reasonable. 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: And the -- the 11 Comptroller is doing another study on it this year. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: If it doesn't pass the 13 "look right" criteria, something is wrong. There's no 14 way -- no way the property values went up by a factor of 15 six or by a factor of three just on -- on acreage. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Look at the bottom one 17 there, that went up by about 35 -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Wait a minute. I want 19 -- I'm not through yet. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'm sorry. Go ahead. 21 I didn't think -- go ahead. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I just -- it just 23 doesn't -- when you do that, if it doesn't make sense, 24 you -- it's gotta be reasonable. 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: We base our information 125 1 on the sales information that we gather. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's like somebody 3 saying, I don't know because the computer said so. I've 4 heard -- 5 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: No, that's -- 6 (Talking over). 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- say that forever. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioner Moser, now please 9 don't raise your voice. Let's have a dialogue here. 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yeah. It's based on 11 sales information. And that's what we're required by 12 law to use. And Carla can explain that to you also. We 13 are following the Code. We are doing what is required 14 of us. 15 I understand. My taxes have gone up a lot, 16 too. My property went up over 50 percent. I 17 understand. I grew up in this County. But I have a job 18 to do. And that is my job, to follow the law. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's to be reasonable. 20 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: To follow the law. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: To be reasonable. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sharon, I've got a 23 question for you. 24 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: On this sheet -- 126 1 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- down -- the bottom 3 one, land market values. We'll just take the top one 4 that says Ingram ISD. We've got 2000 to 1400 and 500 5 per acre. Is that the range or -- 6 (Talking over) 7 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: That's a range. Yeah, 8 that's a range. The price per acre on land varies on 9 the size of the ranch. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: From there. It didn't 11 change from that to that? 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Right. When you have 13 the larger ranches, like the Priour Ranch and that, 14 they're at 2,000 an acre, they're such a large tract. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 16 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I, myself -- 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I just wanted to make 18 sure I understood. 19 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: -- because I'm a 20 smaller ranch, I'm closer to 4,000 an acre. It ranges. 21 Now, at the bottom at the 2662 per 11 hundred 31 per 22 acre, I kind of gave you an idea. If somebody was 23 paying on the market value of the property, they would 24 be paying $26.62 an acre based on $2,000.00 an acre. 25 And then if they were at the higher end, especially 127 1 along the river, like 11 hundred 31 per acre. 2 But yes, the land market ranges. That 3 depends -- that is based on a current schedule. I was 4 trying to give y'all an idea of what the actual markets 5 were. They were ranging from 2000 to four to five. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Got you. And then 7 above there, those that Commissioner Moser was talking 8 about, that's not a ranch. That's what it's changing 9 from? 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. That's what 11 it's -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good point. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: From 37 -- 14 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Okay. My -- it's -- 15 no, no. It went up in value 37 cents an acre. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it's interesting. 17 Almost all of them went up by about three times what 18 they've been, roughly. 19 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, no -- okay. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 21 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: No. No. No. Okay. I 22 should have put what it was taxes beforehand. Like on 23 Divide School District, if you take $1.17 and minus 24 37 -- point 37, that is what the taxes were last year. 25 I was just showing what the increase per acre would be. 128 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So my error -- I 2 said it went up by a factor of 3.18. I was reading what 3 it said here and that's not -- 4 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Okay. I guess I didn't 5 explain it very well here. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 7 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I was trying to show 8 with us having to go up on AG what -- what kind of tax 9 burden based on the '19 rate. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 11 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It would have -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So when you stressed 13 the word "two," it should have been -- we were to read 14 range? 15 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Right. I'm sorry. I'm 16 sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Got it. 18 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: My mistake on how I 19 presented this. But like the -- 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But this is the range, 21 from 37 -- 22 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It went up 37 cents per 23 acre. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It went up 37 cents 25 per acre. 129 1 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. To $1.17. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Okay. 3 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: So basically the 4 highest school district, because they are a higher 5 school rate, is 49 cents they went up to per acre based 6 on the new AG evaluation. I was just trying to kind of 7 show the difference the AG value makes versus someone 8 having to pay it -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, when you -- and you used 10 Ingram as an example? 11 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes, because they're 12 the highest tax rate. 13 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. And we're 14 talking about this is the -- the category that says 2020 15 estimated increased taxes per acre based on 2019 tax 16 rate. 17 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: So -- but if I extrapolate 19 that, that the current rate now is $1.54 per acre, 20 right? 21 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Uh-huh. Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE KELLY: And if we subtract 49 cents 23 from that, because last year it was $1.05 an acre? 24 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Correct. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 130 1 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Correct. 2 JUDGE KELLY: So that's how we read that. 3 But also, I want to make sure we're reading it right. 4 When you took -- look down at the category that says 5 land market value, that's where you're talking about 6 ranches? 7 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. Yes. That's the 8 prices we have per acre. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Large acre versus small acre. 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Exactly. Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we understand what 12 -- what the data is. 13 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 15 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And clearly the 2020 tax 16 rates are going to be less than they were in 2019. Just 17 the nature of House Bill 3 and Senate Bill 2. 18 JUDGE KELLY: But by virtue of the way of 19 the law is written, we really have a two-year lag. 20 So what we're suffering today, we're not going to see 21 any type of valuation relief on that for two years. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Hang on for two more 23 years. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, ma'am? 25 MS. EDENFIELD: If I can explain this, 131 1 Judge. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Come on up. 3 MS. EDENFIELD: The calculation -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: This is Annie Edenfield? 5 MS. EDENFIELD: I'm yes, Annie Edenfield. 6 The calculation that really took that value up was the 7 hunting lease information that we received. And as we 8 all know, we have been in a great long time of some 9 economic increase, which is really pushing the hunting 10 and hunting leases up. 11 All this information up to 2018, all of 12 that, that's what I've gotten, with this current issue 13 and the virus and COVID and all that, I see those 14 numbers and that range starting to decrease in the 15 forward -- in the coming years. 16 Doing the average, I can see if we're 17 standing here two years from now that that rate is going 18 to be a little bit lower based on the economic 19 depression that we're in. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So -- so that the public 21 understands -- and now I'm -- I appreciate your 22 explanation. But so the public understands, the values 23 that we're looking at were back when oil was $100 a 24 barrel, and now it's $40 a barrel, right? 25 MS. EDENFIELD: Correct. Yes, sir. 132 1 JUDGE KELLY: And we're not going to see 2 that decrease in value for another two years because you 3 have to roll off this five-year average. 4 MS. EDENFIELD: Correct. Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I got it. 6 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And -- and I will just 7 throw this out. When -- when the Legislature was doing 8 the Tax Code and determining the best way to value 9 agricultural land, they -- they chose to do this 10 five-year average to take into account the highs and the 11 lows to try to keep things more on an even keel. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And nobody anticipated the 13 crash. 14 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Well, no, sir. 15 JUDGE KELLY: And that's where we are. 16 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Got it. Tough explanation. I 18 appreciate it though. 19 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And I'll just, you know, 20 reiterate what Bob said. You know, there -- every 21 organization that deals in the appraisal world, the 22 Appraisal District Association, the Texas Association of 23 Assessing Officers, the County Assessors, every 24 organization that deals with this, did send letters to 25 our elected officials -- 133 1 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and let me build on 2 that, Carla. 3 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Back when all this first 5 started, I met with the Tax Assessor Collector on 6 numerous occasions and we talked about this, about these 7 resolutions and everybody was fighting to try to freeze 8 last year's tax rate and we actually thought we were 9 going to get it. 10 And then the Governor's the one -- I mean 11 and all the professional trade associations sent in 12 resolutions and recommendations, and the tax assessor 13 collectors were recommending this, and the City was 14 recommending it, and the Governor just said no. 15 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Right. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's what happened. 17 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yeah. And one thing I 18 will share just to try to equate agriculture with -- 19 with this. The Texas Oil and Gas Association, whose 20 President is Todd Staples, former State Senator, former 21 Agricultural Commissioner, he wrote a letter, and I -- I 22 can finally share that with y'all. I can e-mail it to 23 you. 24 He sent a letter to Comptroller Hegar and 25 said, you know, oil is tanked and could there be some 134 1 relief given to the oil operators that don't calculate 2 the lease rates based on January 1st. And Comptroller 3 Hegar sent him back a letter and said, no. The Property 4 Tax Code is the tax code and it is the law of the State 5 of Texas, and oil will be valued as of January 1st, just 6 like all other property. 7 Now, I think we will see things very 8 differently for 2021 than we are seeing for 2020. So 9 like Bob said, everybody's asked and -- and it's not 10 going to happen. I personally do not believe we're 11 going to see a special session to address this. It will 12 be addressed in, you know, a few months in 2021. 13 So I hope -- I hope what I've been able to 14 share with you today is just the way AG values are 15 calculated. It's not based on current year. It's based 16 on a five-year history looking backwards. 17 It -- it can have an impact on a school 18 district's school funding. And -- and Appraisal 19 Districts are supposed to follow -- and I would 20 encourage all of y'all to download the entire document, 21 the appraisal for agricultural land. And it's very 22 clear how Appraisal Districts are to appraise 23 agricultural land, how property owners are to qualify 24 for agricultural valuations. 25 It talks a lot about what a prudent owner 135 1 would do, what is typical in a county. Because you 2 always hear people say, well, I don't lease my land out 3 for hunting. Well, you may not as an individual, but if 4 that's what's typical in your county, then that's the 5 way that land has to be valuated. 6 JUDGE KELLY: That's the productivity 7 valuation. 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. And it's -- 9 and it's in the -- the pages that I did put in your 10 packet that discusses all of that. It discusses typical 11 -- being a prudent owner, the five-year average. It -- 12 it will go over all that information. 13 And once again, once y'all look through all 14 of this, if y'all have a specific question my e-mail 15 address is on my card. My cell number. My work number. 16 I don't mind, you know, visiting with y'all about this 17 some more. If y'all have some questions that, you know, 18 that you think about later. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, let me apologize 20 to Sharon for reading what it said here when I said -- 21 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, okay. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- about factor of 23 three and about a factor of six. My -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that's what it 25 looked like to me. 136 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just a second, my 2 misinterpretation. But, okay with that, now that I 3 understand what it is, okay, it's still a 43 percent 4 increase from last year over this year. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing to do with five 7 years before that. It's a 43 percent increase. 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Right. But if you look 9 back to 2007 on the top, do you see how the rates have 10 been? We've been able to keep them 56, 49, up to 60 for 11 the last two years. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Yeah. And 13 that's good. But sorry, so we go from 60 to 88, that's 14 -- that's the thing people, you know, that -- that -- 15 I'll go back to my reasonableness number. That's not 16 reasonable. 17 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: No, I understand. I've 18 got ranch land, too. I totally understand. And -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So I don't know if -- 20 still I wouldn't -- I couldn't explain that to anybody 21 if I wanted to. 22 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It's -- it's the 23 hunting. It's the hunting is what did it. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, but Jonathan Letz 25 said awhile ago, his lease rates, you know, I could 137 1 lease some land, nobody knows what I charge. 2 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, we were leasing 3 our ranch, too. We had 840 acres and we were getting 4 12,000 a year just for the lease of the hunting. And 5 the hunters have to pay their own corn. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But did you increase it 7 by that amount? 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: We had -- we had a 9 ten-year lease on that with the hunters. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So that -- see, 11 that's the thing that people are -- it's a small sample 12 but I think maybe that's the problem, Sharon. I think 13 it's such a small sample set that you have. 14 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It would help -- we 15 sent out 930 AG surveys and we only got 200 back with 16 usable information. If we could get more information 17 back from these ranchers on their costs, it will be a 18 great benefit for us. Then we'd have something to go to 19 the State with and say wait a minute, you're showing 20 this, but this is what my ranchers are showing. You 21 know, without the information, you know -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can you challenge that? 23 Can you challenge that with the Comptroller? Can you 24 say no, this is what I think it should be, 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: If we had the 138 1 information to fight it. So we based our information 2 based on surveys that we did receive or have been 3 receiving. 4 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: And really, 200 is a 5 pretty good amount compared to a lot of other counties. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But you've also had a 7 bunch of protests. 8 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How many? 10 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: We have just under 11 4,000, and we've got 40,000 accounts. But we also went 12 up on our houses and everything else across the county 13 again. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Right. So -- 15 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Because this last 16 year -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- you had to resolve 18 those in order for this to get set. 19 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: We are at -- Friday 20 morning when I checked the totals, we were still three 21 and a half percent out from being certified. To where 22 we're -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What is that, eight? 24 Is that eight and a half percent? Is it -- 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yeah, we're at eight 139 1 and a half right now. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you're at eight and 3 a half percent and -- 4 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: And we have to be at 5 five. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What happens if you 7 can't resolve that? 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I have to -- I have to 9 certify a preliminary to all the entities. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So anybody out there 11 that's a holdout and doesn't want to resolve this, they 12 just get passed over or -- 13 MS. EDENFIELD: My comment would be I've 14 got -- I've had several AG protests come over my desk 15 through personal landowners and property agents as well, 16 and I have not been able to resolve one of them; I 17 resolved every single one. I give them the 18 calculations, just like I've given to you and other 19 landowners that have requested it, and every single 20 agent has signed off on every single waiver. I've not 21 been able to put one down. 22 And the other thing is, I can understand how 23 the ranchers are concerned with the huge increase from 24 one year to the next. But as Carla shows you the -- our 25 grades from 2017, if you will, it should have been 140 1 incrementally being increased since 2017 and the AG -- 2 or I guess before they just didn't want to take this 3 kind of on himself or herself, whoever it was, so -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now go back to the 5 waiver. What has to happen there? 6 MS. EDENFIELD: As far as the waiver is 7 concerned? 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You said you had 9 representatives of ranchers? 10 MS. EDENFIELD: Yes, sir. Many. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They're talking to you 12 and not signing off on the waivers? 13 MS. EDENFIELD: No. They have signed off 14 on -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They have. Which 16 means -- 17 MS. EDENFIELD: -- every one of them. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which means what? 19 MS. EDENFIELD: They agree. 20 (Talking over) 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. That's the 22 approval is the waiver -- 23 MS. EDENFIELD: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- regardless of what 25 happened. What happens if they don't sign off on the 141 1 waiver? 2 MS. EDENFIELD: If they have some problem, 3 then they would go to the ARB, the Appraisal Review 4 Board, and it would be discussed there. Just like we're 5 discussing it amongst ourselves right now. 6 And the same information -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And if it doesn't get 8 resolved there? 9 MS. EDENFIELD: Then they can go to 10 arbitration. 11 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Or they can file a 12 lawsuit against -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What I'm getting at is 14 you have eight and a half percent right now, you've got 15 to get it down to five. 16 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: In how many days? 18 MS. EDENFIELD: Before July 25th. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Before July 25th? 20 You're running out of time and you don't have it 21 resolved because there's 4,000 people -- 4,000 angry 22 people -- 23 MS. EDENFIELD: Well, and that value -- 24 that's to really -- I mean, it's -- you're talking about 25 $28 an acre. That's not a big bunch of value even in 142 1 lower AG -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm talking -- I'm not 3 talking value. 4 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yeah, well we're -- 5 when we're working through these protests, we're 6 handling the highest values first. We took care of 7 industrial or personal property, those that have the 8 high value. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But you're not 10 answering my question. That was -- 11 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I'm sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- not my question 13 ever. What happens if this doesn't get resolved in your 14 -- on your -- by your deadline? Then what happens? 15 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Well, as long as the -- 16 we're -- okay, if we're not at 95 percent by the 17 deadline -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm not asking that. 19 I'm asking if you're not at 95 percent on deadline, what 20 happens? 21 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Then I certify an 22 estimate to our entities. 23 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Eventually, she will be 24 at 95 percent. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She just missed the 143 1 deadline and keep going, is that what you're saying? 2 MS. OSBORNE: Right. Under House Bill 2 and 3 -- I mean House Bill 3 and Senate Bill 2 and all -- and 4 it ties into school funding, Appraisal Districts now 5 certify -- and not just school funding, but they certify 6 preliminary numbers to the taxing unit. School 7 districts send those preliminary numbers to the Texas 8 Education Agency and TEA will set the tax rates for the 9 school district. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's based on an 11 estimate of what you expect the result to be? 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Right. Right. And -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which would be 14 lowballing it or not? 15 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Basically -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Wouldn't that be safe 17 to lowball it? 18 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I usually look at 19 either what their opinion of value is, or what last 20 year's value was. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 22 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: So I -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'd just like the 24 taxpayers to know what they -- 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 144 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- what they can do. 2 There's not much that the taxpayers -- the ranch owners 3 can do right here except hold out. And that's the only 4 strategy I can see for them. 5 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: No. Basically when 6 they're scheduled for an ARB hearing, they're entitled 7 to one reschedule and that's it. And then they will 8 have to go to the board hearing. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. But if it's not 10 resolved and you go basically to set the last year's 11 rate? 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: No. No. 13 JUDGE KELLY: No. You go to the ARB. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You go to the ARB and 15 if it's not resolved then what? 16 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: It's -- there's four -- 17 ARB will make a decision one way or the other. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. And that's what 19 you said you were lowballing it. Did I misunderstand 20 you, or are you talking about something else? 21 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Okay. When I certify 22 the estimate, those -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The estimate? 24 MS. CONSTANTINIES: Uh-huh. Yeah. When I 25 certify the estimate to you on July the 25th, if I'm not 145 1 able to certify it by then -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 3 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: -- then I will give you 4 an estimate on those that are outstanding. Those 5 accounts that are outstanding. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which -- which was your 7 lowball you said? 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Trying to get 10 the terms straight. I mean that's my term. I don't 11 know what you call it but -- 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yeah. No, that works 13 for me. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That helps everybody, I 15 think. 16 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: That works for me. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 18 JUDGE KELLY: This is just a conservative 19 approach to appraising. 20 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. Which it should 22 be. But I'm saying that's the only option anybody has, 23 is to say I'm not going to resolve this with you, and 24 hope that the rate -- 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Eventually they have 146 1 to. Yeah. 2 JUDGE KELLY: No. Let me clarify this one 3 up. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. I mean, I'm trying 5 to figure it out. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let me -- let me explain 7 how it works. Their opportunity is to go to the ARB. 8 It's going to be decided at the ARB level. Whether they 9 like the results or not. They'll have the opportunity 10 to appeal, to contest it. It doesn't go away. You 11 still have due process of law. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Right. 13 JUDGE KELLY: But it's -- it's all going to 14 be done with these ARB's. They're going to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that being the case, 16 and you having a deadline of July 25th it sounds like 17 it's just -- that doesn't matter anyway. If it's going 18 to be decided anyway, regardless of -- of your deadline 19 and -- and whether somebody is happy at the ARB or 20 accepts the terms, it sounds like to me it's kind of 21 futile to go in and talk about it. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Actually, the -- I'm a 45-year 23 trial lawyer. You're -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If what you're saying 25 is correct then it -- 147 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, this is the time when 2 they're working overtime to try and get these cases 3 resolved. And -- and the more reasonable they are and 4 the more reasonable the landowners are, these things are 5 going to start stepping like flies. That's the way it 6 works. 7 And if they don't, then you get -- you queue 8 up who's going to go to the ARB. And then the ARB is 9 just going to make a decision. It's going to be like a 10 gavel. And then -- then they get to appeal. 11 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: And what's made it more 12 difficult this year is we're trying to reduce the face 13 to face with the informal complaints -- I'm trying to 14 protect my staff. And so we're doing a lot of stuff by 15 e-mail and telephone. But if we have -- when we're 16 looking at the sales for the area, comparable's, if we 17 can have some wiggle room and we can adjust it, we're 18 adjusting it. We're working with the taxpayers. 19 And a lot of times there's something with 20 the property we're not aware of, some kind of problem. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Sure. 22 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: So what we do is mass 23 appraisals. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Kind of like value 25 engineering, isn't it? You figure it out as you go. 148 1 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Uh-huh. And what -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we had -- 3 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- several -- we had 5 several people say today that they asked for information 6 from you that they didn't get. The request for 7 information on how these numbers are derived and that 8 they did not -- 9 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: On the AG stuff or -- 10 or -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The AG stuff. 12 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I know she's been 13 sending out a bunch of information. 14 MS. EDENFIELD: Now, people who were asking 15 me for information that we deem confidential, like our 16 surveys, we're getting an opinion on that -- 17 MS. OSBORNE: From the Attorney General's 18 Office. 19 MS. EDENFIELD: -- from -- yeah, from the 20 Attorney General's Office. Because as we have it now, 21 it's labeled confidential. And I don't want my license 22 held accountable. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you can't? 24 MS. EDENFIELD: We can't. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Did -- were they made 149 1 aware of that? 2 MS. EDENFIELD: Yes. 3 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Yes. We did send a 4 letter -- the lawyer sent a letter out to Mr. Priour. 5 He's the one that had requested the information, but 6 yet -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: He's not the only one 8 that said it. 9 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: But yet, the 10 information on the sheet that we sent him and the 11 others, it shows the size of the ranch and the leasing 12 amount. It does not -- it does not identify the owner. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I've got a couple 14 things, Carla. 15 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes, sir. Uh-huh. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You've got a tough 17 job. I feel for you. I would like to see the -- the 18 front page of this letter if you don't mind. 19 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yes. I can do that. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'd appreciate that a 21 lot. 22 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: Yeah. I'll just e-mail 23 -- I'll just scan that and -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 25 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- e-mail that to y'all. 150 1 Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Another thing. These 3 people upstairs. They're -- they're scared. They're -- 4 you know, I -- I think they know the handwriting's on 5 the wall. That they're stuck this year. But they're 6 awful afraid that it might happen again next year. And 7 that's a concern. And that's one reason they're here 8 is, my gosh, look what they did to us this year in a bad 9 year. Is this going to hit me again like this jump 10 again next year. And that -- and you can see their 11 concerns. And -- 12 MS. POPE OSBORNE: And that's -- I mean, 13 I'll certainly supply y'all the letter, the Texas Oil 14 and Gas Association sent to the Comptroller. And if 15 y'all haven't seen it, I'm sure Judge Kelly has provided 16 that. I -- I certainly know that the tax office has it, 17 is the letter from the Attorney General's Office that 18 has made it abundantly clear that -- that what's going 19 on right now with COVID is not considered a disaster -- 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tough luck. 21 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: -- under the Property Tax 22 Code. 23 JUDGE KELLY: No, he didn't say tough luck; 24 he just said this is the law. 25 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: This is the law, right. 151 1 Yeah, He didn't say -- he just said this is the law. 2 And -- and so, certainly I know that I've encouraged 3 the appraisal district, you know, if you've got property 4 owners coming in and they want to try to say all these 5 things that are happening, well that's two sorts of 6 evidence from the Attorney General's Office and from the 7 Comptroller's Office that says property has to be 8 assessed as of January 1st. 9 There's -- you know, Appraisal Districts -- 10 once again, I mean whether you like it or not, they are 11 to follow the Property Tax Code. I mean, when all these 12 appraisers get certified with TDLR, and -- and when the 13 Comptroller comes in and they do what's -- one of those 14 color map reviews of the performance audit, those sort 15 of things are looked at. 16 I -- I know for the 2019 property value 17 study, I represented quite a few school districts who 18 were going to be punished on school funding because 19 their Appraisal District failed the map review. They 20 weren't eligible for full funding because of that. So 21 there -- there is a big hammer out there and districts 22 are expected to follow the Code. You very well may see 23 the 2021 session. I suspect this will be a topic of 24 discussion. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let me ask one other 152 1 question. Just looking at Sharon's page here, okay. 2 Sharon, thank you for this. So from 2007 to 2018 values 3 stayed the same, native pasture. 4 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Pretty much, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So who didn't do their 6 job when it jumped to 88? I'm not saying you did, but 7 who did -- who didn't do their job? 8 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Actually, from the -- 9 we don't have a copy of the other years survey. Yeah. 10 I'd have to look, but we were in pretty good shape in 11 the previous years. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, I -- I understand 13 that. I'm just looking at the data, okay, so it went up 14 from 60 to 88, so somebody screwed up. 15 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Not necessarily. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The property value 17 didn't go up that much. 18 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I suspect that the 19 Appraisal District was a little low in 2018. They were 20 low in '18. It's just the State didn't come in and do a 21 study in '18. The State was showing in '17 the 22 Appraisal District was low on AG value. And then they 23 weren't studied in 2018. And then all of a sudden in 24 2019 -- when 2019 cam around, we had already dropped off 25 two years off the five-year average and we had added two 153 1 years on the back end that hunting income had increased 2 significantly. 3 MS. EDENFIELD: Hunting was the biggest part 4 of it. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Based on very limited 6 data. 7 MS. EDENFIELD: You know, 150 solid ones on 8 hunting, yes. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. But we heard 10 that Parks and Wildlife gave them the information. 11 MS. EDENFIELD: I used -- I used our local 12 people. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. From the survey 14 you asked for? 15 MS. EDENFIELD: From the survey. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Got you. Thank 17 you. All right. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I -- I would like 20 to say that I think that this is -- is -- and nobody 21 here can do anything about it, but it's wrong for the 22 State to put down its foot and say we're not going to 23 keep our coffers from being filled, and then tell other 24 people they can't even go to work. That is wrong. 25 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: I agree. 154 1 JUDGE KELLY: Welcome to County Government. 2 MS. POPE-OSBORNE: That's a whole other talk 3 show. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, ladies. 6 MS. CONSTANTINIDES: Okay. If you have any 7 questions, you know who to call. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Let me give everybody a 9 preview of what we need to do. We've got one minor item 10 here on the agenda. And then we go back to 1.5, which 11 is on the agenda for masks. 12 And what I'd like to do is take up 1.6 with 13 the Sheriff, which is to consider, discuss and take 14 appropriate action to approve the Videomagistrate 15 Service Agreement, and take a break so that everybody 16 upstairs can start lining up and I'll -- I'll call out 17 the names in the order that you can make presentation so 18 they can start making their way down. 19 So, Sheriff, let's do your Videomagistrate. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. The 21 videomagistrate, we've talked about that some in the 22 past, this is a contract for it if we go to it. I think 23 with came out pretty good on the contract price and 24 that. 25 First off, the contract has been reviewed by 155 1 the County Attorney. One change was made in it, which 2 was just about the indemnity clause. And where the 3 normal price of this contract is $150 per month per 4 Judge, and we have nine judges that would be part of 5 this, the company gave us three accounts free. So 6 that's three judges they took off. So we will only 7 having to be paying for six judges since we have nine. 8 But what this does is, number one, I think 9 it will speed up inmates getting magistrated because 10 they will be magistrated 24-hours a day instead of just 11 once in the morning. So that could speed up inmates 12 getting out. It will allow judges to do anything that 13 they can normally do, kind of like even by Zoom, they 14 can do with this in real time, and with real paperwork 15 going back and forth instead of having to fax and scan 16 and e-mail. 17 The inmates at the jail will actually have a 18 signature deal there that they sign it live real time. 19 The contract also -- the company will put in all our 20 current forms that we use actually into the -- the 21 software part of it. We don't have to develop new 22 forms. They will use our current forms. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can we just save the 24 forms? Do we have to capture the whole video 25 transaction? 156 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. We -- and the 2 thing is, it's all on them, it's their space. They're 3 saving them. Yes. We capture the whole video 4 transaction. It's all recorded. And the forms are -- 5 the actual signed forms are all in the computers saved, 6 too, okay, or in the cloud or however they do it. It is 7 all CJIS compliant, which is big for the State because 8 criminal histories and things like that need to -- to go 9 across because the judges need on magistrating somebody. 10 Somebody comes in with a burglary charge, they need to 11 be able to see their criminal history, what all do they 12 have in the past, before they set a bond on them. You 13 know, what's the dangerousness to the public. So all 14 this can be uploaded into it. They have it. It's all 15 CJIS compliant and HIPAA compliant. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So this is $160 a 17 month? 18 JUDGE KELLY: 150. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Hu? 20 JUDGE KELLY: 150. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 150. 22 JUDGE KELLY: $900 a month for all the 23 judges. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: $900.00 a month. And 25 it -- that's the cost. So it saves you on perhaps 157 1 number of days in jail for some people, so it's 2 probably -- off the top of your head, net wise it's a 3 savings? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would think. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 JUDGE KELLY: It's at least a break-even. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or is it in the budget? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I have for next 9 year -- and we'll get into that in the budget stuff -- I 10 actually -- and we've changed -- James has adjusted it. 11 It's in my budget for next year. Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So -- but you're asking 13 for it for now? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For -- I'm asking for 15 it for now and by the time we would get it loaded I 16 would assume it would start August the 1st. And if -- 17 it's -- it's reimbursable from the grant money that 18 we've already got because this is COVID assistance. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will probably have to 21 pay it directly out of my budget somewhere or out of the 22 seizure account and then get reimbursed. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's down in the 24 budget? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's in the budget. 158 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, wait. Wait. 3 Wait. I got another question. Why can't this be added 4 to the court costs? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It can actually be paid 6 for out of the technology fund, which is part of the 7 court costs from all the J.P.'s. It's just the County 8 uses a whole lot of that funds already to help pay our 9 Odyssey Program. There's only so much funds being 10 derived from that. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. But rather than 12 this being -- coming out of your budget, why can't it -- 13 we charge for it? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Charge separate? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: As part -- as part of 16 the court costs. You've got -- you've got somebody that 17 gets out of jail and -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the court costs 19 -- and you'd have to ask the County Attorney. Court 20 costs, there has to be specific things for Court costs. 21 The IT technology fund comes out of court costs and 22 that's what it would have to come out of, okay, is that. 23 And the County's already using a lot of that pocket of 24 money for our Odyssey program. So there wouldn't be 25 enough, really, in there. A whole lot. We're going to 159 1 look at it and -- you know, in a few years. But it's 2 such an advantage that I think it's wise for us to do 3 it. Okay. 4 JUDGE KELLY: But this is a COVID-related 5 expense? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This would be a 7 COVID-related expense. But James was explaining, he can 8 only go through December right now, you know, with the 9 COVID. 10 The other thing is, we are paying for two 11 accounts for the municipal court judges. And we're 12 paying those. Some counties make municipal court pay 13 for them, or the City. They're not charging us for 14 magistrating to begin with, so I'm not sure we should be 15 charging them -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- to come in and do 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, another thing. 20 I appreciate Rusty basically getting a third of the 21 price knocked off negotiating that. So that helps the 22 County a lot. Thank you. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We got a motion by 25 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 160 1 approve the Videomagistrate Service Agreement. Any 2 additional discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 3 Unanimous, four zero. 4 Now, what we're going to do is we're going 5 to take about a ten-minute break. The public needs to 6 know that we have a two o'clock budget workshop, and so 7 we're working through lunch. We've got a bunch of 8 people that want to talk to us about 1.5 item on the 9 agenda. 10 And let me read off the order of 11 presentations: Mike Piper, David Barker, Jerry Wolff, 12 Emily Shelton, Steven Shelton, Rusty Fouse, Roger Hall, 13 Terri Hall, Barbara Dewell, Tracy Spaeth, and Susan 14 Deininger. So we'll take a ten-minute break and come 15 back and we'll start taking these people in that order. 16 (Recess.) 17 JUDGE KELLY: The Court will come back to 18 order. The next item on the Agenda today is 1.5 19 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 20 making masks mandatory in all buildings in Kerr County, 21 as well as outdoors as appropriate, per Governor 22 Abbott's Executive Order. 23 We have a number of people signed up on 24 that. The first one on the list is Mike Piper. 25 MR. PIPER: That would be me. 161 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Before we get started, 2 why don't we let Rusty go, because he's the one that -- 3 MR. FOUSE: No, no, no. I'd like to go 4 last. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is that what you want 6 to discuss, though, is masks or -- 7 MR. FOUSE: We're going to discuss it. 8 Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. I just want to 10 clarify. Okay. 11 MR. FOUSE: But we can have a discussion at 12 a different time. I'm happy to have it with any one of 13 you. Okay. Thank you. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Mr. Piper. 15 MR. PIPER: Gentlemen, Judge, Commissioners, 16 I appreciate you letting me speak again. I hope you're 17 not getting tired of me yet. But again, I'd like to 18 touch on -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: Please give your name and 20 address. 21 MR. PIPER: My name is Michael Piper, 806 22 Main Street, Kerrville, Texas. In my studies I've been 23 keeping track with the Texas Department of State Health. 24 Of course, I'm in the food business, so health career is 25 my forte. I'm not a health official or a doctor or 162 1 anything, but I've been watching the numbers and 2 speaking of this -- this surge we've had. We went from 3 a .0026 chances of getting COVID, and this surge we went 4 up to a .00089. So if you want to round it up, eight -- 5 or nine one-thousandths of a percent. We got 29 million 6 people in the State of Texas and that's a very minute 7 percentage of the people. The death rate has dropped 8 big time with the amount of testing going on. 9 Of course, as y'all know, we've had some 10 gatherings in Houston and Dallas and all these places, 11 where the masks weren't mandated, and that probably 12 caused a little -- a little bit of the surge, too. You 13 know, people talking about bars and all of this stuff. 14 Guys, I -- I think that the death rate's dropped so low 15 we went from a 0.026 to a 0.0089. The CDC, from my 16 recollection, has taken it off the pandemic list. 17 Okay. With that being said, I'm going to 18 get back to my business, which is the restaurant. In 19 good times I run a skeleton crew of about 15 people 20 between my two places. Now I'm running a crew of eight 21 between the two places. I can't find help. They're 22 paying -- the government is paying people to stay home 23 and they're making more than what I can pay them. So 24 nobody's applying. I've spent ample amount of dollars 25 with the Kerrville Daily Times and the Community Journal 163 1 trying to get help in the door. They're just not 2 applying. 3 And of those eight people that I've got 4 working, they're busting their butts. They're busting 5 their butts. They're working hard. Half of those eight 6 people have respiratory problems. I can't ask them what 7 it is. I know what some of them are. Because of the 8 ADA laws I cannot ask them what it is. So if the masks 9 are mandated and enforced, half of my staff's not going 10 to show up. So I'm down to a quarter of my staff. I'm 11 out of business. 12 I think it the public's responsibility to 13 watch out for themselves, as I stated in my -- the last 14 time I was in front of you gentleman. My wife and I 15 both have parents in their eighties. I don't want 16 anybody to die. I have compassion for people. I love 17 people. That's why I got into this business, the 18 business that I'm in. And I think that we need to take 19 that into consideration. That personal responsibility 20 needs to be taken. If you've got issues, take care of 21 yourself. 22 I've got a business and I've got families 23 relying on me to feed their families and pay for their 24 medications for their kids and for their problems. I 25 want to take care of them. And it breaks my heart to 164 1 think that I might have to shut down and they won't have 2 a job. Breaks my heart. Thank you, gentlemen. I 3 appreciate everything y'all do. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do you -- do you 5 require your customers to have masks? 6 MR. PIPER: I'm not going to police my 7 customers, sir, to be honest with you. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, I said do you 9 require them? 10 MR. PIPER: I don't require masks, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. Fair 12 enough. 13 MR. PIPER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE KELLEY: David Barker. 15 MR. BARKER: Good day. My name is David 16 Barker. I live at 3722 Club View Ct., Kerrville, Texas. 17 Masks. Like this gentleman said earlier, I agree 18 wholeheartedly what he just said. I've heard these 19 stories a lot. Masks aren't really all that effective 20 from what I found out in my research and review around 21 the country. I know a lot of physicians and they tell 22 me that they're really -- outside of the hospital 23 setting, they're really not that effective. Where we 24 run into problems with transmission of this disease is 25 close contacts. In bars, in these mobs that you've seen 165 1 around the country where people are having parties, and 2 getting close together. That's where the transmission 3 is taking place. It's not taking place, and I think we 4 have evidence of that, at our own community within HEB 5 and Walmart, for example, where for months we walked 6 through there with our friends and neighbors and we did 7 not have masks on and we did not have any huge rise of 8 cases here in Kerrville. 9 The other thing I'd like to add to it, is 10 our children need to go back to school. I think the 11 school district -- I've talked with the superintendent, 12 Mark. And I think he's doing a good job and I think 13 they're prepared to deal and manage the children going 14 back to school. I think that's what we have to do. 15 JUDGE KELLY: David, I appreciate that. But 16 that's not on the agenda. We can't -- 17 MR. BARKER: Thank you, sir. I appreciate 18 that too. Okay. But to make a conclusion of my 19 recommendation is to have masks be done on a voluntary 20 basis and let the businesses decide whether they need it 21 or not. Thank you. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, David. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Jerry Wolff. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nobody out here? 166 1 We don't have anybody out here right now, 2 Judge. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Emily Shelton? If y'all are 4 upstairs, please come down. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's nobody else up 6 there. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, we -- we've got the 8 phone numbers to call. And the only other -- do you 9 want to go now or do you want to -- 10 MR. FOUSE: I'll go last, Judge. 11 JUDGE KELLY: After phone calls? 12 MR. FOUSE: After everything. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 14 UNKNOWN VOICE: Oh, Barbara Dewell is here. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Barbara Dewell. Oh, I'm 16 sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Why don't you go ahead 18 and try to get somebody on the line. Unless Bruce maybe 19 called and got a number? 20 MS. DEWELL: My name is Barbara Dewell, I 21 live at 2919 Dry Hollow Drive in Kerrville. And I just 22 wanted to say that there is no agreement among the 23 medical people, among scientists as to the effectiveness 24 of masks and I really resent a governmental agency 25 putting restrictions on individuals when there is no 167 1 agreement as to it. It isn't -- Fauci himself on 2 April 3rd said that he did not think masks were 3 effective. Well, now he's changed his mind. But, you 4 know, nothing has changed since April 3rd as to whether 5 a mask functions or not with viruses. Nothing has 6 changed. Our numbers may be higher. But that was 7 inevitable with a virus like we're facing. 8 Then, secondly, I -- I don't understand why 9 in 2017, 2018, flu in Texas resulted in three times more 10 deaths than we have seen so far this year with COVID-19. 11 The deaths that year for flu in Texas where over 9,600 12 people. None of us wore masks those years. It wasn't 13 even discussed. 14 Then finally, the issue of wearing masks is 15 -- as multiple different law enforcement people have 16 said, that it's very difficult to enforce. Making a 17 ruling that you have no way -- no vehicle to enforce. 18 And -- and one example of that is for people who have a 19 medical exempt -- a medical reason for not wearing a 20 mask. Well, you can't ask them why. HIPAA laws prevent 21 that. So, therefore, couldn't we all just say I'm 22 sorry, I have an issue. There you are. Well, you know, 23 I just don't think that the -- the -- from the County 24 Commissioners point of view mandating something you do 25 not have a vehicle to enforce it, you cause confusion, 168 1 you cause anger among the citizens against each other, 2 rather than just facing that we all need to take a 3 personal responsibility for our actions. We need to 4 distance ourselves. We need to wash our hands. We need 5 to be careful. Ourselves. And stop looking at 6 everybody else and saying you need to be careful. I 7 need to be careful. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Barbara. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. We have -- 10 Ms. Deininger, can you hear us? Can you hear us? 11 MS. DEININGER: Yes, I can. Can you hear 12 me? 13 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. We've got you right here 14 by the microphone. If you would state your name and 15 address. 16 MS. DEININGER: Susan Deininger, 103 17 Turnberry Circle, Kerrville. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You may proceed. 19 MS. DEININGER: All right. We have heard 20 that masks were not necessary if you keep six feet of 21 distance, social distance. And we have heard that masks 22 are not effective. We have heard that masks are 23 effective. We have heard that masks without social 24 distance are effective. No one seems to know. And at 25 this point, my son got GFRA after having the flu. 169 1 Perfectly healthy young man. And I'm just going to say, 2 are we going to close down for flu too? 3 We know about as much as we're going to know 4 about the virus at this point and people who know that 5 they are vulnerable -- I'm 74, we should wear masks or 6 stay distanced or not be afraid to die. And I'm just 7 sorry we were -- I just really am for personal 8 responsibility and for personal choice. And I am 9 against making it a mandatory fixed rule. Thank you 10 very much. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Ms. Deininger. 12 MS. DEININGER: Okay. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Is there anybody else? 14 Want to try the Hall's again? 15 Hello. Mrs. Hall? 16 MS. HALL: Uh-huh. 17 JUDGE KELLY: This is Judge Kelly here at 18 the courthouse. And you called in for your opportunity 19 to speak on Item 1.5 on the agenda about mandatory 20 masks. 21 MS. HALL: Yes. It's Terri Hall at 118 22 Independence in Ingram again. The science has not 23 changed since two weeks ago, despite the Governor's 24 order. And notice that an Executive Order is not a law; 25 only the Legislature passes laws. An Executive Order 170 1 specifically states that masks are only necessary when 2 social distancing is not possible. And there's no need 3 to mask everybody up as long as you can still social 4 distance, which can be done in many of our stores, 5 restaurants, and in other settings. Also, when you're 6 eating and drinking. 7 You heard from many business owners last 8 time we debated this issue. We made the case and it 9 hasn't changed. A mask order is not constitutional. 10 And masks are not effective. And frankly, having to 11 keep coming back and doing battle to protect our 12 constitutional rights is getting exhausting. The 13 doctors and nurses have said we actually need mask 14 training when they go to work. I know, like you, many 15 doctors and nurses, friends that we have, and no one's 16 wearing them properly. Unless it's an N95 mask, it does 17 not even stop the virus. 18 There's also plenty of studies that say that 19 healthy people shouldn't been wearing masks. Even the 20 Surgeon General said that at one point during this 21 ordeal. Fauci also said masks are largely just 22 symbolic, speaking to the fact that they are not 23 effective. 24 Bottom line, we're a conservative county. 25 We need to bring sanity back to this feared panic. Get 171 1 back to first principles. Limited government, personal 2 responsibility and liberties, lower taxes, not a bunch 3 of fines -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall -- Ms. Hall, I have 5 to stop you. We can't talk about those items, they're 6 not on the agenda. We're talking about mandatory masks. 7 MS. HALL: Seven people in the hospital is 8 not a crisis. In fact, Dr. Scott Atlas, a fellow at the 9 Hoover Institute, just said in a story yesterday that 10 the rise in cases in Texas is largely associated with 11 two things, the protests/riots and the proximity to the 12 border. 13 We're also seeing in rising cases it means 14 herd immunity. That's exactly what we need to finally 15 get this virus behind us. It's herd immunity. Many of 16 these cases are asymptomatic where people that are not 17 sick or not sick enough to be hospitalized. Even the 18 CDC says, unless you have close contact with a COVID 19 positive person, that you don't need to quarantine. 20 Even when people are contacting folks who are engaged in 21 contact tracing -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall? 23 MS. HALL: -- have said that they've been -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall? 25 MS. HALL: -- exposed to somebody -- 172 1 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall? 2 MS. HALL: Yes? 3 JUDGE KELLY: We need to stay on task of the 4 topic of masks. Mandatory masks. 5 MS. HALL: That's what I'm getting at. That 6 even CDC in their -- all recommendations to people who 7 have been contacted by contract tracers about positive 8 cases and being in contact with someone who had a 9 positive case, even they're saying that you don't need 10 to quarantine unless you've had direct close contact 11 with the COVID positive person. We're not having direct 12 close contact by being out in public even when you don't 13 have a mask on. We're social distancing. We don't need 14 it. 15 We've also learned -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 17 MS. HALL: -- there's many probable cases 18 that are increasing our case counts unnecessarily. For 19 instance, they're counting everybody in the household -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall. 21 MS. HALL: -- as being COVID positive 22 without an actual lab to confirm a positive test. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Hall. Ms. Hall. Your 24 time is up. You want to put your husband on the phone 25 and let him finish? 173 1 MS. HALL: I'm sorry? 2 JUDGE KELLY: Your time is up. If your 3 husband wants to speak, he has -- he has three minutes 4 also. 5 MS. HALL: I gotcha. But can I wrap up real 6 quick? 7 We just want a proportional common sense 8 response. One that's not feeding the fear and panic. 9 Please don't mandate masks. Stick to your guns. You 10 unanimously decided not to do this just two weeks ago. 11 Maintain that position. Reflect our values of limited 12 government and personal responsibility. The on again, 13 off again is creating chaos and unpredictability for our 14 businesses. Let freedom reign. I'll hand it to my 15 husband now. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 17 MR. HALL: Hello. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. 19 MR. HALL: Okay. I'm just -- 20 THE REPORTER: I can't hear him. 21 MR. HALL: -- reading from my notes. Okay. 22 I gotta pull off here. Hang on. Hold that. 23 MRS. HALL: Sorry. We're trying to drive 24 our son to work. He's going to pull off so he can 25 speak. 174 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Now I get the picture. 2 MR. HALL: Are you ready? 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 4 MR. HALL: Okay. I think we can all agree 5 that the COVID data reporting to the mainstream media is 6 ambiguous at best. These reports focus on the cases 7 only which does not educate the public and only promotes 8 fear. 9 I'm giving you an example of how -- report 10 the coronavirus impact on their community and that 11 printout I had left was dated July 6th of this year, and 12 this is -- this one data provides a more complete 13 snapshot of the current situation so residents can make 14 the decision on how they need to respond. I encourage 15 our County to report our community data this way and 16 release it to the paper and to social media. 17 And as a side note, I did talk with the 18 gentleman that you guys all have on there, he was first 19 up this morning. And I noticed he's reporting on 20 details that this data is an example of -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall. Mr. 22 Hall, I have to interrupt you. 23 MR. HALL: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: The topic that is being 25 discussed is mandatory masks. We're not discussing the 175 1 data -- 2 MR. HALL: Right. But you're -- you're 3 dictating your decision on masks based on the amount of 4 cases and all that, especially what the public is seeing 5 and they're being more fearful by what -- how the data 6 is being reported. 7 So I'm encouraging y'all to have the report 8 that the newspapers put out and everything, have a full 9 picture and not just cases as that graph shows. It's a 10 very thin graph and it shows you the actual percentages 11 of positives versus -- versus not positive, versus the 12 death and breakdown, the age range and all that. And it 13 just would help people be able to assimilate the 14 information a lot faster and make wiser decisions. 15 And I encourage you guys to keep the mandate 16 at bay. There's no need for a mandate at this point. 17 And that's what I'm encouraging you from doing. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 19 Okay. Then I believe we have one -- one 20 person left to make a presentation to the Court, is that 21 right? Mr. Fouse. 22 MR. FOUSE: Rusty Fouse, I live in Hunt, 23 Texas. Thanks again for having me here today. We're 24 going to breeze through this because at this point I 25 kinda feel like we know where we stand. But you know, 176 1 the first time I came in here it was because we had 2 fatalities in the county. Kind of like most of you all 3 live in Kerrville. 4 That the only reason it's unenforced is 5 because we have a Sheriff that doesn't want to do his 6 job, so -- but not doing it -- and you can laugh if you 7 want. It's hilarious when people die and get sick, 8 right? Yeah. So funny. Like -- 9 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. I'm having a hard 10 time understanding you a little bit. 11 MR. FOUSE: Okay. I'm not -- what do you 12 want me to do? 13 JUDGE KELLY: Slow down, and articulate what 14 you're saying. You get 10 minutes like everybody else. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Three. 16 MR. FOUSE: Right. But that lady had 17 said -- and -- right. But I get three. Okay. 18 Again, it's -- I'm wasting my time here with 19 you guys because you've already made your decision. I 20 mean -- 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That -- 22 (Talking over). 23 MR. FOUSE: Only the County barn -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Stop. That's offensive 25 to say I've already made up my mind. 177 1 MR. FOUSE: You have already made your mind 2 up. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You can't say that. 4 MR. FOUSE: I'm saying it. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I changed my mind last 6 time -- 7 MR. FOUSE: Okay. Well, let's see -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- by listening to 9 people. 10 MR. FOUSE: But it's -- he's not going to 11 change his mind this time. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Don't -- 13 MR. FOUSE: Because these people around you 14 are still not wearing masks, mind you, just like 15 yourself. And it's like I saw you cough in the hallway 16 and all that other stuff. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Fouse. Please don't be 18 argumentative. We're not -- 19 MR. FOUSE: I'm not being argumentative. 20 I've tried to say my point. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And we're here to 22 listen. 23 MR. FOUSE: Ask me any questions you'd 24 like. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't have a 178 1 question. 2 MR. FOUSE: No questions. Great. Any 3 questions? No questions? No questions? No questions? 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We didn't ask you here; 5 you asked to be here. So start -- 6 MR. FOUSE: I was here last time and 7 explained my argument -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 9 MR. FOUSE: -- I'm here this time -- 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All right. 11 MR. FOUSE: -- so now you can -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we didn't ask you 13 to come in and ask questions, so -- 14 MR. FOUSE: Right. I can't even -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- what do you want to 16 say? 17 MR. FOUSE: -- say my part because I was 18 informed last time you couldn't rebut because I only had 19 three minutes to speak. So now you can rebut -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's on the agenda. 21 MR. FOUSE: -- and you have nothing to say? 22 Great. Got a radio show and you talk all day and you 23 got nothing to say in Court. Great. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't have any 25 questions for you. 179 1 MR. FOUSE: Right. So you don't think the 2 County facilities need to be cleaned up, you don't think 3 that the Ingram Dam having people out there not social 4 distancing, not -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Fouse. Mr. Fouse, please. 6 I'm trying to maintain order here. This is not an 7 interrogation. If you want to make a presentation to 8 us, you're welcome to. If you don't, we understand. 9 MR. FOUSE: Okay. Y'all keep confusing 10 people about saying you can either be six feet apart or 11 you can wear a mask. Prime example. If you're in 12 Walmart and there are two people walking towards you and 13 you're in the middle of the aisle with no mask on, how 14 are you going to social distance and put a mask on? It 15 can't be done. You're not going to do that. 16 So you're putting my family at risk by not 17 wearing a mask, and that's okay with me. People are 18 ready to die, if they're not wearing a mask. People say 19 it's untrue. I didn't know we had so many scientists in 20 Kerr County. Apparently they're everywhere. They know 21 all the numbers, all the records, all the -- they read 22 everything. 23 What you're not thinking about are the 24 elderly people and people that have vulnerabilities. 25 It's your responsibility, too, whether they're your 180 1 family member or not. You care so much about your 2 employees and you're so passionate about them, yet the 3 system that provides you your life and their lives, you 4 don't care about us, 5 MR. PIPER: My parents are 80, bro. 6 MR. FOUSE: Great. 7 MR. PIPER: I take care of them. 8 MR. FOUSE: Good for you. And if you don't 9 wear a mask in your restaurant people are going to die. 10 (Talking over.) 11 JUDGE KELLY: We're going to have order in 12 this court. 13 MR. FOUSE: Yes, sir. Absolutely. I'm 14 done. 15 JUDGE KELLY: No. You may proceed. 16 MR. FOUSE: No. I'm done. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Anything else? 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. 19 MR. FOUSE: I figured not. Have a great 20 day. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We have scientists and 22 law experts. 23 JUDGE KELLY: We have one more caller. 24 Tracy Spaeth. 25 This is Judge Kelly, Kerr County 181 1 Commissioners' Court. And you had -- you were supposed 2 to -- you signed up to speak the Court. I'm trying to 3 get you on speaker. Can you hear me? I can't hear. I 4 don't know what -- he says she's getting her hair done. 5 MR. SPAETH: I said I was in the middle of 6 getting my hair cut. I wondered if could talk to you 7 here in a minute, or about 10 minutes. 8 MRS. DOWDY: Oh, I'll leave that to the 9 Judge. 10 JUDGE KELLY: No, sir. We're -- we're 11 trying to get a bite of lunch before we start back at 12 two o'clock for a budget workshop. So I'm sorry to miss 13 you. 14 MR. SPAETH: Well, I can do it right now 15 if -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well, you're -- you're 17 on the air. 18 MR. SPAETH: Okay. So what I researched is, 19 an article that basically says that, you know, the CDC 20 is not even recommending that healthy people buy a mask 21 or wear a mask. And that's according to, you know -- 22 it's to do with builders, and health and human services, 23 but it's something they're putting out now. 24 Number one, so I mean, you know, even the 25 CDC is not even recommending that healthy people wear a 182 1 mask. That's -- that's my first point. 2 Second point is, is that the death rate on 3 the coronavirus has been going down for ten weeks in a 4 row and the only reason we're seeing a spike in cases is 5 because we're testing about ten times more than what we 6 were back in March. So that's to be expected. It's all 7 logical. 8 But for -- for -- to mandate healthy people 9 to wear masks -- I mean we're all, you know, open to do 10 it if we're around somebody that's immune compromised, 11 such as going to a doctor's office, of course. But for 12 general -- just a mandated across the Board is just -- 13 it's not an option. (Can't hear.) Just doesn't make 14 sense. And it's kind of like -- 15 (Can't hear). 16 -- for about a year now. You wouldn't have 17 any lights for the courthouse there. And then to me, I 18 mean, it's just kind of frustrating that we even have to 19 spend -- y'all are having to spend so much time on this 20 conversation and keep revisiting it, whenever we really 21 need to make a decision and just move on to things that 22 are really going to be important for the County. 23 I mean, this is -- this is just kind of a 24 waste of taxpayers' money, in my opinion, to continue to 25 have the series about whether we need to be wearing 183 1 masks or not. And besides that, we know that the masks 2 are not even effective. 3 You know, the ones people are wearing are 4 cheap and they're not doing their job anyway. So we're 5 not really accomplishing the purpose that we're set for. 6 So those -- those are my main points. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you very much. 8 MR. SPAETH: All right. You have a good 9 day. 10 JUDGE KELLY: You too. 11 Okay. Is there anymore discussion about 12 item 1.5 for mandatory masks? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I have a discussion. 14 And that -- that's the fact that science is not clear on 15 how effective they are. Enforcing it is not clear how 16 it can be done. And there's evidence from other 17 counties that have mandated masks for a number of 18 months, number of weeks, and the caseload keeps going 19 up, significantly. Three to 500 percent. So, you know, 20 there's -- that seems to me like if it were clear on 21 mandating I think I would probably go along with that, 22 but it's certainly not clear to me. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I basically say the 24 same thing I said this morning on the Event Center. You 25 know, the Governor's presented us with loop or hoops 184 1 we've gotta jump through and I don't see anymore 2 restrictive. We're going to go by his guidelines and so 3 be it. 4 We don't want to inflict any more pain. 5 People need to be responsible for their self. There's 6 Jonathan. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Go ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just quickly. I mean, I 9 pretty much agree with what Commissioner Moser and 10 Harris said. I think that we need to not go any further 11 than we have. I'll be glad to give a whole lot more 12 information next Monday. 13 Because of my personal situation and my 14 travels recently. But I just think it's unnecessary. 15 Communities that have passed things like this in Houston 16 is -- they're not enforcing it. People aren't doing any 17 different there than they are in Kerrville. I was in 18 Houston this past weekend. Other communities -- 19 (Can't hear). 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- but no real value to 21 do it, and there's no reason to do it, and I think that 22 people need to wear masks if they so choose. Businesses 23 can require it if they so choose. I personally think 24 that people should wear it in certain circumstances. 25 But I like the way it is right now. No additional 185 1 order. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. 3 Anything else? Okay. There being nothing 4 else, then let's move on to the Approval Agenda. Item 5 2.1 pay the bills. 6 MR. PIPER: Judge, I apologize. He was 7 directing it towards me. But thank you, guys. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay, pay the bills. 9 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Invoices for today's 10 consideration. Kerr County, $140,177.20. Juvenile 11 probation, $23,181.71. The airport, $337.00. District 12 Clerk fees, $1,000.00. That's it. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval to 14 pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 17 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 18 pay the bills. Any other discussion? Those in favor 19 raise your hand. Unanimous. Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. I'm sorry. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Four zero. 22 2.2 budget amendment. 23 MR. ROBLES: Yes, we have three of them 24 today. One for the jail, for salaries and overtime. 25 One for Animal Control. And then one for revenue. This 186 1 is insurance proceeds for damage to vehicles. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move that we make the 3 budget adjustments as presented. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 6 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 7 approve the budget amendments as requested. Any other 8 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 9 four zero. 10 Late bills. I saw one. 11 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. We have -- the total 12 of them -- I think there's maybe two. $1,940.45. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 16 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 17 approve paying the late bills as presented. Any 18 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 19 four zero. Auditor reports? 20 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Monthly reports? 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. May 2020. 23 Indigent Services report, Jennifer Doss, HR Director. 24 Animal Services report, Reagan Givens, Director of 25 Animal Control Services. Standard monthly report from 187 1 Constable Precinct 3, Ken Wilke. And June 2020, 2 Indigent Services Report, Jennifer Doss, HR Director. 3 Fines, judgments and jury fees. J.P. 1, Mitzi French. 4 J.P. 2, J. R. Hoyne, and J.P. 3, Kathy Mitchell. 5 Standard monthly report from Constable Precinct 1, Tommy 6 Rodriguez, Constable Precinct 2, Kyle Schneider. 7 Constable Precinct 3, Ken Wilke, Constable Precinct 4, 8 Gene Huffaker, District Clerk, Dawn Lantz, County Clerk, 9 Jackie "JD" Dowdy. And the payroll approval month 10 ending June, County Treasurer, Tracey Soldan, or Soldan, 11 I'm sorry. I move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 14 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 15 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any 16 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 17 four zero. Court orders. 18 MRS. DOWDY: I have court orders. I don't 19 know if anyone else wants to see it. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I haven't read them. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So just pass on it. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We'll pass on that. 23 Information agenda. Reports from Department 24 Heads. Any reports? 25 3.2. Status reports from Elected Officials. 188 1 3.3. Status reports from Liaison 2 Commissioners. 3 Okay. We have nothing for Executive 4 Session. Is there anything further before the Court 5 today? There not being, then we are adjourned. 6 * * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 189 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 29th day of July, A.D. 2020. 10 11 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2021 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25