1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Special Session 5 Monday, July 27, 2020 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioners' Comments. 6 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 8 action regarding update, facility use and 5 other matters related to COVID-19. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 18 action to extend the Local State of 7 Disaster Due to a Public Health and Economic Emergency Proclamation that was 8 signed by Judge Kelly on March 24, 2020, and "extended until terminated by 9 order of the Kerr County Commissioners' Court" on March 30, 2020. 10 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 11 action for the Court to authorize the County Engineer and Tetra Tech, Consultant, 12 to advertise for bids for construction of Phases II and III of the Center Point 13 Wastewater Collection System Project as funded by Clean Water State Revolving Fund 14 (CWSRF) and Economically Distressed Areas Program (EDAP) funds through the Texas Water 15 Development Board and by Colonia Economically Distressed Area Program (CEDAP) and Colonia 16 Development Fund (CDF) funds from the Texas Department of Agriculture. 17 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 24 18 action regarding the Kerrville-Kerr County Joint Airport Board budget for FY 20-21. 19 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 36 20 action regarding Upper Guadalupe River Authority (UGRA) River Clean Up volunteers 21 possibly using Hill Country Youth Event Center Dumpster. 22 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 40 23 action to authorize Texas Parks and Wildlife Department contractors to spray Arundo donax 24 on Kerr County property. 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 41 action to allow Texas Parks and Wildlife 4 Department contractor to fill water tanks at the Hill Country Youth Event Center 5 (HCYEC) for the Healthy Creeks Initiative Program to manage giant cane (Arundo donax). 6 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 43 7 action to approve a new optional $1.50 Child Safety Fee for 2021 vehicle 8 registration. 9 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 44 action to approve the optional $10.00 10 County Road & Bridge fee for 2021. 11 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 44 action to submit the Annual County Fee 12 Changes for FY 2021 to the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles. 13 1.11 Public hearing regarding the "No Parking" 55 14 signs installed at Homilius Rd. E. Bridge. 15 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 56 action for the Commissioners' Court Final 16 Approval regarding "No Parking" signs installed at Homilius Rd. E. Bridge. 17 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 59 18 action to set a public hearing regarding the removal of the road name of Padre Pio 19 Dr. W. 20 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 60 action for the Commissioners' Court to set 21 a public hearing regarding the installation of a Stop Sign at the intersection of 22 Horizon Blvd. S. and Sheppard Rees Rd. S. 23 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 62 action for the three (3) Kerr County 24 agreements regarding storage of Kerr County Owned Materials on private property. 25 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.16 Public hearing for a revision of plat for 65 Spicer Ranch Lots 25 and 31, Volume 3, 4 Page 56. 5 1.17 Clarification of drainage requirements for 66 the Meadowbrook Retirement Community 6 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located at State 7 Highway 27 and Hoot Owl Hollow. 8 1.18 Public hearing on County Clerk Archive Plan 105 for Fiscal Year 2020-2021. 9 1.19 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 105 10 action to approve and adopt the County Clerk's Annual Record Archival Plan as 11 presented. 12 1.20 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 108 action to approve the contract between 13 Data Preservation Services and the Kerr County Clerk, and authorize County Judge 14 to sign same. 15 1.21 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 109 action for the County Clerk's fee schedule 16 for fiscal year 2020-2021, to be effective September 1, 2020 through September 30, 17 2021. 18 1.22 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on use of Tax Anticipation Note 19 for the purchase of real property. 20 1.23 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to approve the Witt O-Brien's, LLC 21 Emergency Purchasing Agreement for grant consulting services for Coronavirus Relief 22 Fund Grant. 23 1.24 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action concerning property on Southway 24 Drive currently used by County Road & Bridge. 25 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 2.1 Pay Bills. 117 4 2.2 Budget Amendments. 118 5 2.4 Auditor Reports. 119 6 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 119 7 3.3 Status reports from Liaison Commissioners. 120 8 1.17 Clarification of drainage requirements for 123 the Meadowbrook Retirement Community 9 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located at State 10 Highway 27 and Hoot Owl Hollow. 11 1.25 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 123 action to grant a variance to the 12 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Regulations stormwater detention 13 calculation requirements for the Meadowbrook Retirement Community 14 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located at SH 27 15 And Hoot Owl Hollow. 16 *** Adjournment. 156 17 *** Reporter's Certificate. 157 18 * * * * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 JUDGE KELLY: Kerr County Commissioners' 2 Court is now in session. And if you would, please, rise 3 for the prayer and the pledge. 4 (Prayer and Pledge of Allegiance.) 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. For those wishing to 6 call in for any public input, I have my cell phone here 7 at the bench and it's on. It's (830) 792-6161. So 8 that's -- let me repeat that again. 792-6161. 9 Okay. The next part of the Agenda is for 10 Public Input. And this is for those that would like to 11 address the Court on a matter that is not on the Agenda. 12 If it's on the Agenda, we would ask that you wait until 13 that agenda item is called. If there's anyone that 14 would like to do that, we would like you to approach the 15 podium, give us your name and address, and limit your 16 remarks to three minutes. If there's anyone that wants 17 to offer any public input at this time. 18 Okay. There being none, then we'll go to 19 Commissioners' Comments. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We got an inch of rain 21 in Precinct 1. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Really? 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good for you. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Eat your heart out. 7 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I bet it wasn't the 2 whole Precinct. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Most. Yeah, we did 4 good. We did good. So we're happy with that. 5 JUDGE KELLY: We didn't get that much rain. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We didn't either. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We have more fun in 8 Precinct 1 too, by the way. More rain and more fun. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 2. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Three? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad to be back. 13 (Commissioner Belew is clapping.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I get asked about how I 15 feel and I -- as I mentioned on the phone, I was totally 16 asymptomatic. I never knew I had it. The only reason I 17 knew that I ended up with COVID is because my wife 18 insisted I get tested because she got tested. And she 19 was almost asymptomatic. But anyway. Evidently I had 20 it. Didn't know I had it. Hope I didn't infect 21 anybody. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good to hear. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Four? 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Missed out on the 25 rain. We had high hopes but got none. But I -- I do 8 1 want to recognize somebody. We're always talking about 2 team players in the County and what have you, and 3 Kerrville Fire Department's two brush trucks went down. 4 They're in Mountain Home. Brian Alexander and his crew 5 have loaned them one of theirs for the time being until 6 they get theirs back up and running and -- and it's good 7 to see cooperation like that. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Good. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So hats off to 10 Mountain Home Fire Department. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Good. Anything else? 12 Okay. Then let's go to the first item on 13 the Agenda, which as it's been now for several months is 14 1.1 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 15 regarding update, facility use and other matters related 16 to COVID-19. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I passed out -- because 18 Dub Thomas could not be here today. He's got some 19 plumbing issues at his residence he's having to deal 20 with this morning but -- so he called me yesterday 21 afternoon. I did have him send me a report that I 22 passed out to each one of y'all. 23 I think one of the biggest things on that 24 report that is notable is a week ago, it showed Kerr 25 County having current active infections of 244. And I 9 1 think DSHS has finally started throwing some of those 2 off and Dub and Danny Smith, our Fire Chief, have been 3 working with that. So now, from DSHS our active cases 4 are 50. And there is only one death and the other one 5 is under investigation. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's happening all 7 around the State. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that's notable. 9 Other than that, I think the report speaks for itself. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You know, I have a 12 question and -- and maybe -- I don't know if you or 13 maybe and Commissioner Reeves -- I mean Commissioner 14 Letz can tell me. When you get tested, are you 15 automatically tested for the virus as well as antibodies 16 or -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Two separate tests. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're two separate 21 tests. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Two separate tests. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And depending on where 24 you are as how they'll do it. They have a rapid 25 antibody test and a rapid COVID test and then they have 10 1 a week antibody test and a week COVID test. I say week, 2 maybe less than that. But they're different tests. A 3 lot of times if you test negative on the COVID, then 4 they'll do the antibody if you request it, but it's not 5 standard. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. And they're 7 tested for COVID and not Corona? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't know what 9 they're -- they're testing for a coronavirus. And they 10 cannot differentiate on the testing that I was under. I 11 had two different tests. They could not differentiate 12 between the Corona -- the COVID and another coronavirus. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, that's just one 14 of the questions I've been getting. I mean, everybody 15 is looking at these on exactly what's taking place and 16 the numbers are all over the place. So, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everything I hear -- and 18 I've been talking to Peterson, too. They're going to be 19 getting, if they don't have already, the rapid test. 20 And that's a huge help. Having to wait a long time -- I 21 was able to get a rapid test. As a matter of fact, my 22 whole family got it the same day just to make sure we 23 were all finally clear. And it took ten minutes. And 24 then they did the other deal, and then they did the 25 antibody test as well. So that was done in Boerne. 11 1 There's a facility there that can do the rapid test at 2 the urgent care clinic there. But I know that when I 3 talked to Peterson last, they were -- thought they were 4 going to get the rapid test pretty soon. I'm not sure 5 if they have it yet. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not sure. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And for those that are 8 interested, there's a lengthy article by Harvey Risch 9 from Yale University in the medical research department. 10 He teaches epidemiology and he's a staunch advocate of 11 the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin and zinc. Those 12 three together. And he said we have a -- we don't have 13 to worry about waiting for a vaccine, we're covered, 14 we're good right now. And he is perplexed at why that 15 information was being censored. 16 And there are even doctors that even -- 17 thank you -- there are even doctors that are fighting to 18 keep their medical licenses because they prescribed it 19 and -- and told others about it, and they've been 20 attacked. So when you have somebody that's that high 21 ranking and this information continues to come out and 22 he's questioning this, and you can find it in Newsweek 23 magazine. So we don't have to be as frightened about it 24 as everybody is. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the good news is 12 1 that there -- and I think this goes nationwide -- the 2 deaths are down substantially. Percentage wise. And it 3 just -- you know, it'll be really interesting someday 4 when they find out what causes some people to be -- 5 like I had, which is zero symptoms. Some people have 6 mild symptoms, some people have, you know, death. 7 And -- but it's -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We are healthy. People 9 that aren't healthy have -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some people that are 11 healthy though -- some people are having a rough time 12 that are healthy. But the good news is that they have a 13 much better way of working it in the hospital, whether 14 they do blood transfusions with the antibodies or they 15 do the various tests like you were talking about. A lot 16 of other things. 17 And one of the reasons that Karen had a very 18 mild and she -- they thought she had a sinus infection 19 so they gave her a Z-pack right away and that might have 20 minimized her. But we were very fortunate. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and before you leave, 22 Sheriff, let me -- let me clarify that what I understand 23 to be the major change in these numbers of recovery is 24 you will recall that we've had trouble counting our 25 positive cases and probable cases between PRMC, and 13 1 DSHS, and then we have the Texas Military Force do their 2 testing, and then we have the testing that we did over 3 at the AG Barn and all of this stuff. 4 Last week, Chief Danny Smith and Dub Thomas, 5 our Emergency Management Coordinator, made a concerted 6 effort to get with DSHS and reconcile these numbers. So 7 we've got more accurate numbers. And so, it's not that 8 we suddenly had 200 people recovered in one week, we 9 finally managed to catch up with the numbers. 10 The big -- the big issue was that the 11 contact tracing that DSHS does, got severely behind. 12 And because of that, the numbers remained inflated, 13 because they weren't able to clear people because they 14 weren't able to complete their contact tracing. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you don't have to 16 put them down assumed positive either -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- just because they've 19 had contact with somebody. And the real problem is how 20 they did the process in the first place. Not that they 21 couldn't track people down, but to assume that they have 22 the virus because they had contact, that's a broad 23 assumption. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I can't speak to how 25 DSHS did it and if you know better -- 14 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm just saying that, 2 you know, you jump to conclusions. And you're -- you're 3 a lawyer. You know you're not supposed to jump to 4 conclusions. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I mean, I don't jump to 6 conclusions. I'm -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, I'm saying what -- 8 what -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: -- saying what Chief Smith and 10 Dub Thomas told me. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm not talking about 12 you. I'm saying this process, people assume. Two 13 people living in the same house. One is assumed to have 14 it, the other one tests positive. That's the way 15 they've been writing this stuff down. So what you have 16 just described there is that we have to back off of it, 17 and figure out that just because these people were part 18 of the contact tracing, they had to eliminate those, and 19 it took a while for us to get those 200 extra people off 20 the list. It's because -- as far as I can tell, it's 21 because it's an assumption -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- because of the 24 contact tracing. 25 JUDGE KELLY: All I know is that I'm very, 15 1 very appreciative to what Chief Smith and Dub Thomas did 2 this past week. It was a massive effort to try to get 3 these numbers cleared up for us. And so I think what 4 we're looking at now are probably the most accurate 5 numbers that we have. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think what we ought 7 to really look at for us, and if you look at Dub's 8 report just real quick, the total tests that have been 9 given in this County were 5,462. Of that 5,462, 340 10 were positive. And right now -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Six percent. Six 12 percent. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- and right now we only 14 have 50 active. And I think that's pretty good stats 15 for the County. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Which is less than one 17 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think the 19 reporting thing is -- I've been in contact with DSHS so 20 I can kind of explain it. They didn't care where I 21 thought I got it. They didn't care -- they didn't ask 22 me any questions about household, family. All they said 23 is, do you have it? I said, Yeah, I've tested positive. 24 Okay, thank you. Or negative. I took it -- they 25 didn't ask any questions and it was almost a 16 1 verification that -- that I had the test. And so I 2 think a lot of the numbers, you know, a lot of the graph 3 shows how you got. They're not even asking the 4 questions anymore. At least they didn't ask Karen or I, 5 two of us, you know, how we got it. 6 And the other thing that I made this comment 7 and I got hit in the paper again for making the comment 8 last week about the reporting numbers. I, myself, don't 9 know how it's all being done. I've been tested in Kerr 10 County, Kendall County, and Montgomery County. I don't 11 know how they -- you know, they must have a really good 12 database to be cross-referencing my -- which County I 13 live in. And if you look at my address, I'll be put in 14 Kendall County where I live in Kerr County. So Karen 15 was in Gillespie, Kerr, and Kendall. She's been tested. 16 So I think it's -- I don't put a whole lot 17 of emphasis on the numbers. I think the trends are 18 important. If we're getting more case and the hospital 19 occupancy rate or the number of, you know, people with 20 COVID in the hospital, to me that's a very important 21 number. I think deaths is an important number. But 22 trying to track down as to where you got it and all that 23 and who is probable and who isn't probable doesn't make 24 that much sense. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think what you said 17 1 is right, they trend. 2 JUDGE KELLY: The trends are important. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's plus and minus 4 five percent on any numbers. We're just looking at the 5 trends. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, trends are important. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But as with Jonathan, 8 you know, the one employee that I had that did test 9 positive, 14 days later they did get a call from DSHS. 10 They were never called about where they'd been or who 11 they'd been with or, you know, anybody. And they've 12 been seeing doctors on other issues, too. But 14 days 13 later they get a call from DSHS saying, okay, you're not 14 -- you don't have to be under quarantine anymore. Well, 15 that same day that person was retested and tested 16 positive again. So three days later, after they were 17 released from quarantine, they were put back in it again 18 for another -- so it's just -- it's -- I think it is all 19 over the place. 20 But I think Kerr County numbers are now that 21 Dub and Chief Smith have worked on them, and with DSHS, 22 you know, I'm pleased to see were they are and I'm 23 pleased to see that we're less than one percent 24 positive. So it's a good thing. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So I just want to reassure the 18 1 public that I think we finally have some data that we 2 can really rely on. Based on they spent major effort 3 last week trying to get these numbers reconciled. And 4 so, get the active cases, less than one percent test 5 positive, what did you say, Commissioner, six percent? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Six percent. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I will -- you 8 know -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: I think those are accurate 10 numbers. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- reiterate, even 12 though I think the Governor's order is unenforceable by 13 a lot of different reasons, including the Texas County 14 and District Attorney Association agree the same thing, 15 the attorneys do, I do strong -- I don't want us to 16 lower our guard. I have policies where all my employees 17 wear masks and I think everybody should be -- still be 18 wearing masks and I encourage it, but I just can't 19 enforce that order. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you, Sheriff. 21 Next item on the Agenda, we've been doing 22 this every week now for the past several months, is 1.2, 23 and this is to consider, discuss and take appropriate 24 action on whether or not we want to terminate the State 25 of Disaster Order that I entered back in March. And the 19 1 language of the order is -- has been that it will 2 continue in effect, extended until terminated by order 3 of the Court. 4 So this is the opportunity the Court has to 5 discuss whether or not you're ready to terminate that 6 order. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nope. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: As long as we're 9 incurring expense, we should leave it open. 10 JUDGE KELLY: I think we all agree with 11 that. 12 So let's move on to 1.3 consider, discuss 13 and take appropriate action for the Court to authorize 14 the County Engineer and Tetra Tech to advertise for bids 15 for construction of Phases II and III of the Center 16 Point Wastewater Collection System Project as funded -- 17 yadi yadi yadi -- I'm sorry. 18 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. Phase I of 19 the project is very near completion. The contractor -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: You have -- you have Don 21 Burger with you; is that right? 22 MR. HASTINGS: I do. Don Burger is -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: I still recognize him with the 24 mask. 25 MR. BURGER: Thank you. 20 1 MR. HASTINGS: And Don Burger is with Tetra 2 Tech Engineering, they're our consultant. The 3 construction plans for Phases II and III are complete 4 and are ready for being bid. And I'll let Don walk 5 through the schedule, but in a nutshell we're asking the 6 Court authorization to advertise for bid for Phases II 7 and III of the project. Don can give us some 8 background. 9 MR. BURGER: Yeah. So Phase I of the 10 project was fairly extensive. It was the largest phase 11 of the project. And it set the basic infrastructure in 12 place to serve Center Point area and Eastern Kerr County 13 with sewer service. And so Phase II and III are 14 extensions of that. 15 Phase I was limited in its scope due to the 16 funding that we had available at the time. But we do 17 currently have funding available to complete both Phases 18 II and III, in place through the Water Development Board 19 and funding through the Texas Department of Agriculture. 20 The proposed schedule for Phases II and III 21 is to advertise these by the end of this month, by the 22 end f this week, and then advertise again next week, and 23 have a bid opening on August 27th. Following the bid 24 opening, tentatively we have -- we plan on bringing the 25 contract award to Commissioners' Court in September, the 21 1 September 14th meeting, to your first regular meeting. 2 And then begin construction as soon as we can following 3 that. 4 The only caveat with setting a hard date to 5 begin construction is that once we receive the bid, 6 there's a stack of paperwork that we have to send to the 7 Water Development Board. A lot of it comes from the low 8 bid contractor who we want to make the award to, and we 9 have to get all of that paperwork together to the Water 10 Development Board and have them approve it before we can 11 actually start the construction so that they can release 12 the construction funds. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So they've authorized 14 it but not appropriated, right? 15 MR. BURGER: Right. It's been a -- a -- 16 it's basically the money sits in a, sort of, an escrow 17 account, if you will. And so before they can begin 18 releasing funds from that escrow account, they have to 19 have certain I's dotted and T's crossed with regards to 20 MWBE participation, making sure that the contractor will 21 follow Davis-Bacon requirements for fair wages, fair 22 labor standards, and all of the Federal requirements 23 that come along with the monies that we are using to 24 finance the project. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I asked Don to just 22 1 kind of put this thing in perspective. Like in Phase I, 2 there were 400 -- approximately 400 septic systems 3 eliminated. 4 MR. BURGER: That is correct. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In Phase II and 6 Phase III there will be another 400, 250 and 100 -- 7 MR. BURGER: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- ballpark. So that's 9 -- that's huge, okay? 10 MR. BURGER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And that's protecting 12 the water of the streams and the Guadalupe River and all 13 that. So -- 14 MR. BURGER: Right. First and foremost, our 15 goal here is protecting public health. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 17 MR. BURGER: And -- and so, having septic 18 systems that malfunction because they're on lots that 19 are not sufficiently large to handle those types of 20 systems is the primary -- one of the primary issues that 21 we have in that area. And so, that is a health hazard 22 as well as a water quality hazard to the Guadalupe 23 River. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So in summary, we've 25 got -- we've got the funds from Water Development Board 23 1 and TDA authorized, not appropriated until they see how 2 the documents play out -- 3 MR. BURGER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- and whose got -- so 5 with that I'd move for approval to authorize the County 6 Engineer and Tetra Tech to advertise for bids for 7 construction of Phase II and Phase III of the project. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 10 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Letz, to 11 approve the -- to authorize the advertising for bids to 12 begin construction of Phase II and III for the Center 13 Point Wastewater Line in East Kerr County. Any other 14 discussion on this one? 15 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Judge, I'm sorry, can I 16 just clarify? Don, you said bid opening on August 27th. 17 Does that need to be in Court because that's a Thursday, 18 or is that -- 19 MR. BURGER: No, that does not have to be in 20 Court. The award has to be in Court. 21 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just out of curiosity, 23 do you anticipate Pesado bidding on Phase II -- or II 24 and III? 25 MR. BURGER: I think they probably will. 24 1 JUDGE KELLY: Any further discussion? Those 2 in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 3 Thank you, Don, for coming in. 4 MR. BURGER: Thank you. I appreciate it. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We've got a timed item 6 at 9:15. 1.4 consider, discuss and take appropriate 7 action regarding the Kerrville-Kerr County Joint Airport 8 Board budget for FY 20-21. 9 MR. MOSIER: Thank you, Judge. And I have 10 with me board member Steven Schmerbeck and our -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Introduce yourself, 12 Mark. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Mark Mosier, President of the 14 Airport Board. 15 MR. MOSIER: Mark Mosier, President of the 16 Kerrville-Kerr -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: -- and Steven Schmerbeck -- 18 MR. MOSIER: County Airport Board. 19 JUDGE KELLY: -- who's a member -- a new 20 board member of the -- 21 MR. MOSIER: Pardon? 22 JUDGE KELLY: And Steven Schmerbeck, he's 23 one of the new board members. 24 MR. MOSIER: That's correct. And Mary 25 Rohrer, our airport manager. 25 1 JUDGE KELLY: Almost didn't recognize her 2 with a mask. Go ahead. 3 MR. MOSIER: Thank you very much. 4 Before you, I have our paper PowerPoint. I always like 5 starting out with our brag sheet. The colorful one 6 comes from the Texas Department of Transportation 7 Aviation Division. This is for 2018. And it shows they 8 -- they have their multiplier calculation that they say 9 because of the airport, our community receives $38.3 10 million. Now, that's based on jobs and some activity. 11 Some activity cannot be measured at the airport, such as 12 the hobby ranches and things, you know, they -- they 13 spend a lot of money but that's hard to measure. I'm 14 not sure if they even -- they don't measure that. 15 But jobs are reduced, obviously from Mooney. 16 And so we figured you'd take about a third off of that 17 at worst. We hope it'll come back. 18 Our revenue is interesting history. My 19 background virtually goes back to 2012 with the Airport 20 Board in one capacity or another. And even prior to 21 that, Tom can remember, that the City and County where 22 collectively contributing about $450,000 to keep the 23 airport out of the red. And this goes back 2015 that 24 the contributions -- or the top number in 2015, we were 25 getting $94,957. And, of course, that's gone down. 26 1 The goal of the Board -- Steve King led the 2 Board mainly for about 100 years during that time, was 3 to be revenue neutral, and that's an admiral goal. I -- 4 I sometimes think we shot ourselves in the foot a little 5 bit because we weren't spending much money, if any, on 6 maintenance. So we're learning a lot about that right 7 now playing catch up. We have a lot of expenses, let 8 alone the capital advancements we'd like to do. 9 But fuel flow, you know, we're a little 10 concerned about fuel flow right now. Fuel flow is our 11 biggest hit we're going to get from COVID. And -- and 12 the big picture is not that large of a percentage of our 13 revenues, but still it's there. And we're -- we're not 14 recession proof. You know, most of our income comes 15 from our rentals, and we do have a waiting list of 16 rentals. We're not too concerned about that. If this 17 continues along the long, long term then it could change 18 some things. But I really don't see that being a high 19 risk. So I think most of our revenues, I feel like are 20 taxes. 21 We've done a lot of things smart. We've 22 converted a lot of properties to rentals. We're trying 23 to use everything we can. I call it organic growth, 24 take what you -- what you have and try to make it 25 viable. We still have a little room to move up in that 27 1 area, which we're actively pursuing right now to create 2 more rental areas. We've had a lot of lost 3 opportunities from businesses that have wanted to come 4 here and we don't have a place for them with employees. 5 That's another goal we're trying to work on also. 6 Operating expenses have been fairly 7 consistent over time. And I have before you a balanced 8 budget. And this year we -- like we have a lot to spend 9 on. We've discovered a lot of expenses. We have a very 10 expensive crosswind runway, which is extremely valuable 11 for -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: Mark, I don't have that. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's in the backup. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Okay. Yep. 15 MR. MOSIER: And we have an amazing board. 16 I mean, I'm supported by an amazing team. We're truly a 17 strategic board. Everybody brings a different skill to 18 the table. We get really interested in the meeting but 19 we have a good outcome in the end. Everybody has OSHA 20 mentality on the board. Everyone is willing to give it 21 their all. We put a lot of time into it. It's almost 22 like we're on the executive management team but we're 23 really not. We're truly a Board but we behave somewhat 24 as an executive management team because we're willing to 25 put our time into it. 28 1 I appreciate the involvement of Tom and 2 Jonathan very much, it's been very helpful. I look 3 forward to the coming year and more involvement from 4 you. Any questions? 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I had a chance to sit 6 down with the Board and go through the proposed budget. 7 I think Jonathan did as well. One of the things we 8 discussed, which I think we need to put on the table, is 9 the fund balance. Okay. I think when we discussed that 10 the airport had a fund balance of $666,000 -- 11 MR. MOSIER: Yep. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- there's -- that's 13 item Number 1. Item Number 2 is City and County in this 14 budget, I think you still have $25,000 ramp grant? 15 MR. MOSIER: Grant match. Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So the 800 pound 17 gorilla in the room says -- 18 MR. MOSIER: I thank you for bringing that 19 up. I mean it really -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- why -- why can't we 21 eliminate the $25,000 -- 22 MR. MOSIER: We're spending money as fast as 23 we can right now. And if we could spend all of our -- 24 if we could -- if we could fix all of the areas at the 25 airport that need to be repaired -- I'm not talking 29 1 about building anything new. We have extreme expenses 2 out there right now to deal with. And that's the 3 gorilla in the room to me. And the biggest one is the 4 crosswind runway and the two-inch overlay. The Brinkman 5 Hangar hasn't had any maintenance done since 1980, since 6 it was built. And we're still -- we've been getting 7 sticker shocked on door repairs, operating repairs, 8 roller repairs. Now they want to rebuild the whole 9 frame and structure. We're talking hundreds of 10 thousands of dollars. 11 We have some really key tenants in there. 12 The paint hangar is -- and we only have ten places for 13 corporate size aircraft in the entire airport that the 14 airport controls. Ten. And six of those are inside the 15 Brinkman hangar. Ranger has half of those. McDonalds. 16 And, you know, the paint hangars for those. So that's 17 -- that's our corporate air space for storing corporate 18 aircraft that we have and that's it. You know, 19 Joey Kennedy has a few shared areas but -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So ballpark -- 21 MR. MOSIER: And my point is we have more 22 expenses than we have funds. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So just for the record, 24 so the ballpark the things you're talking about, redoing 25 the runway on the cross runway, what -- what are those 30 1 three things amount to? 2 MR. MOSIER: We're still learning. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 700,000 -- 4 MR. MOSIER: 700,000 for the crosswind 5 runway. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 7 MR. MOSIER: We had had approval for box 8 hangers and try to get more corporate -- the corporation 9 that has these jobs, businesses, that's the bottom line. 10 So you know, we want to renovate the paint 11 hangar, just bring it back to spec. That's $125,000. 12 Brinkman hangar improvements. Well, we can start at 125 13 and it could be 300,000. It's -- it's going -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you got -- 15 maintenance and operations out there, you've got -- you 16 got a million dollars -- 17 MR. MOSIER: Easy. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- in there? 19 MR. MOSIER: Easy. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 21 MR. MOSIER: And that's not even -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what you're 23 proposing is leave -- leave the fund balance where it 24 is -- 25 MR. MOSIER: We're taking it down. 31 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Keep the -- I mean, 2 keep the fund balance but -- and also have the ramp 3 grant from the County for 25,000 -- 4 MR. MOSIER: This year. This year. 5 Jonathan had an amazing -- thank you, Jonathan. Had a 6 really good suggestion, which we are following through 7 with, and we're going to do some meetings. We call it 8 the two by two. You two, City, the people that are 9 involved, and talking about another way to do this so 10 I'm not coming to you every year and saying well, a ramp 11 grant -- but it also allows us to do some further 12 development. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Well, with that, 14 I don't have any other questions. I would move for 15 approval of the budget as presented. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second unless you 17 have questions. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Let me state it. The motion's 19 been made by Commissioner Moser, seconded by 20 Commissioner Letz to approve the budget as presented by 21 the Airport Board. Go ahead. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I was -- you 23 know, this was a tough year, I mean, for all of us and 24 everybody out here. And you know, is there anything we 25 can cut back on this year? I mean, that's what we've 32 1 been asking of everybody. This coming year, yes, sir. 2 You know, we were nickel-and-diming the 3 VFD's last week and -- and some of the others come in 4 and it's just slam dunk. Has every avenue been looked 5 at to cut back? You know, and I realize some things 6 haven't been improved since 1980 or whatever, but this 7 is going to be a tough year. We don't know where we're 8 going to be at six months from now with the pandemic and 9 everything. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the Brinkman hangar 11 becomes unfunctional, we lose our revenue and we're 12 going in the opposite direction. So I think a lot of 13 these things need to be taken care of and I think that 14 the -- and with the meeting of the two by two, whatever 15 you want to call it, the meetings with two, I believe 16 that we need to start a capital fund for the airport. 17 And that -- and put a certain amount of that fund 18 balance into that fund. Because last year we had 19 $600,000 in our budget for airport improvements. We 20 didn't spend any of it. Which was a -- you know, that 21 money came back into our general fund. So we had a -- a 22 huge amount. And various -- but it's really difficult 23 for the County, and I presume for the City, to go up and 24 down on this funding there, year to year. It would be 25 so much better if we could fund a hundred thousand a 33 1 year into a capital. Because we know we have projects 2 there. We have a million dollars in maintenance items. 3 We have T hangar projects. We have other things. And 4 if you build -- that's one of the things that we say, 5 you know, if you build it they will come, it has 6 happened. Every time we build T hangars, we fill them 7 up right away. And then all of a sudden our revenues 8 start coming up and that's 90-10 grant, 80-20. 9 Whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 90-10. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you know, we need to 12 keep -- not get too picky in any one year; we need to 13 get a long-range plan for that airport, in my opinion, 14 and that's what he was -- 15 MR. MOSIER: Thank you, gentlemen. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Don makes a good point, 17 though. If you have something that hasn't been improved 18 or fixed since 1980, this is not a really good year to 19 decide we're going to do it. It's been going on a long 20 time and now everybody's hard hit. But I think it would 21 be good to explain to our taxpayers why the County -- 22 the Volunteer Fire Department, as Don mentioned, we're 23 not required to provide any funds for them. The airport 24 may be a little different. So maybe you can explain 25 that, Judge. 34 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we're half owner of that 2 airport. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We're half owner. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We have to take care of it. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So we're required to 6 take care of it and there's some things we might 7 jeopardize our TxDOT money and other things if it's not 8 done right or correctly. 9 MR. MOSIER: That is correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So I -- I would like 11 the taxpayers to know this stuff -- 12 MR. MOSIER: Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- because they look 14 and they go, you won't give 25 grand to the fire 15 department, you're going to give 500 grand to the 16 airport? Well, it's a different animal. Apples and 17 oranges. 18 MR. MOSIER: Well, there's millions of 19 dollars in grant insurance. And there is Federal law 20 that says all dollars that are generated on airport stay 21 on the airport. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 23 MR. MOSIER: But thank you for those 24 comments. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I mean, I think we 35 1 can look at it. I think the -- you know, there's a 2 little bit of time left in our budget but I think that 3 the -- and because of my quarantine situation made it 4 really difficult for us to try to get together the last 5 couple weeks. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nobody wanted to be 7 around you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nobody wanted to be 9 around me, that's right. It's funny how that happened. 10 But, you know, I talked to -- I know Commissioner Moser 11 talked to the Airport Board. I talked to the Airport 12 Board about that 25,000 ramp grant, what should come out 13 of it. But I think that's a long-term -- it's a 14 short-sided because of the expenditures they do have 15 coming up out there. 16 MR. MOSIER: And it is -- it is a match. 17 The -- it's $100,000 total. We get 50,000 from the -- 18 as part of the block grant. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I agree with you, 20 Jonathan, that we should -- this should be something 21 that's steady and we should build in a fund for that and 22 not do this. And that would help you guys -- 23 MR. MOSIER: It would give us more time to 24 pursue things we need to pursue. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's -- why don't you 36 1 make a plan. 2 MR. MOSIER: Better plan it that way. Yeah. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. The motion before the 4 Court is to approve the budget. Any other discussion? 5 Those in favor raise your hand. Opposed? Abstain? 6 (Commissioner Harris abstaining.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: So four, zero, one. 8 Let's move on to item -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, Mark. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Thank you, Steve, 11 for coming in. And Mary. 12 Okay, I'm looking for Tara. We've got to 13 get these people out before she gets in. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She's out there. I saw 15 her. 16 JUDGE KELLY: She told me she'd come. 17 MS. BUSHNOE: Good morning. 18 JUDGE KELLY: 1.5 consider, discuss and take 19 appropriate action regarding the Upper Guadalupe River 20 Authority River Clean Up volunteers possibly using the 21 Hill Country Youth Event Center Dumpster. Tara Bushnoe. 22 MS. BUSHNOE: Good morning, Judge. Good 23 morning, Commissioners. Tara Bushnoe from Upper 24 Guadalupe River Authority. We've redesigned our River 25 Clean Up this year to not hold a single day event so 37 1 we're offering supportive clean up for volunteers from 2 now through the end of October. And we're just trying 3 to identify additional areas in the community that they 4 are authorized to dispose of their trash. 5 So we have the UGRA dumpster and we've 6 arranged some locations in the City, and we were hoping 7 to use the dumpster at the Hill Country Youth Event 8 Center. They've been instructed they have to -- have to 9 fit in the dumpster and any larger items will have to go 10 to UGRA. And I spoke with Commissioner Moser and with 11 Jake and they're going to let me know if there's any 12 issues with this going forward. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Tara and I talked last 14 week and with the program that she's got, UGRA sending 15 out for clean up it's -- it's spread over a long period 16 until November, I believe, Tara? And they had people 17 working this past weekend so they needed a place to put 18 things. So I talked to Jake. And Jake said there was 19 no problem in putting stuff in one of the dumpsters out 20 there, so we said -- I stuck my neck out and said okay 21 for -- for this week, but now to come to the Court and 22 -- and get approval to do that in the future. To 23 continue that way is -- is what the agenda item is for. 24 JUDGE KELLY: So you want us to ratify your 25 authorization? 38 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Yeah. If not, 2 I'll go pick up the garbage. Yeah. So that -- that's 3 it. So, Tara, was it used this past weekend, do you 4 know? 5 MS. BUSHNOE: I think so. A group was -- 6 was planning to clean up your low water bridge at Legion 7 Drive and then also a little bit on Riverside Drive. 8 And so we talked about that being the closest location. 9 And so they were either going to take it there or to the 10 UGRA dumpster. But I didn't confirm, you know, if they 11 had done that or not. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So, it's -- it's -- you 13 know, we talked about the sewer system, and what we're 14 doing to protect the river and this clean up is 15 extremely important. So the thing is, I -- I will make 16 a motion that we allow UGRA to use one of the dumpsters 17 at -- as long as it's compatible with what the Hill 18 Country Youth Exhibit Center can accommodate. And I 19 think there would be some other plans if we need to do 20 that. And it may be that, you know, maybe it needs to 21 have an additional dumpster or something but right now 22 that's not the case. 23 So with that, I would make a motion that we 24 use those -- use the one dumpster out there on an 25 as-needed, but compatible with -- consistent with the 39 1 needs of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and if 2 not, we'll come back to court. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second that. But 4 I'm going to ask you a question about the larger items, 5 the ones that won't fit. 6 MS. BUSHNOE: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So if somebody finds a 8 refrigerator in the Guadalupe River, they're going to 9 take it to the UGRA parking lot? 10 MS. BUSHNOE: To the parking lot, yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 12 MS. BUSHNOE: And then we have an 13 arrangement for it to be taken to the dump. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that's in the rules 15 when they sign up or -- 16 MS. BUSHNOE: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- they're going to be 18 well aware of that? 19 MS. BUSHNOE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Good. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Any further discussion? 22 There's been a motion made by Commissioner Moser, 23 seconded by Commissioner Belew, to authorize the use of 24 the Dumpster out at the Hill Country Youth Event Center 25 for UGRA River Clean Up. Those in favor raise your 40 1 hand. Unanimous, five zero. 2 MS. BUSHNOE: Thank you. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Don't leave. 4 MS. BUSHNOE: I won't. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Got two more. 1.6 consider, 6 discuss and take appropriate action to authorize Texas 7 Parks and Wildlife Department contractors to spray for 8 -- am I saying this right -- Arundo donax, good, on Kerr 9 County property. 10 MS. BUSHNOE: Yes. 11 JUDGE KELLY: We did this last year. 12 MS. BUSHNOE: We have. For the past couple 13 of years. So the Healthy Creeks Initiative is a Texas 14 Parks and Wildlife program to manage giant cane or 15 Arundo donax and we've had properties in Flat Rock Park 16 and also over at the baseball field as well as 17 right-of-ways on county roads that have been treated 18 during the past few years. We just wanted the 19 opportunity to continue that program. It takes a couple 20 of treatment years to really -- to kill it for good. 21 And I coordinate with Shane Evans with 22 maintenance for the County properties and then with 23 Kelly Hoffer at Road & Bridge for the right-of-ways to 24 specify the exact locations that will be included. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And this was a request to 41 1 spray? 2 MS. BUSHNOE: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And then we're going to have 4 the next hearing in just a minute, right? 5 MS. BUSHNOE: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move for approval, 7 Judge. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 10 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 11 approve spraying for the Arundo donax on Kerr County 12 property. Any further discussion? Those in favor raise 13 your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 14 Let's move on to 1.7 consider, discuss and 15 take appropriate action to allow Texas Parks and 16 Wildlife Department contractor to fill water tanks at 17 the Hill Country Youth Event Center for the Healthy 18 Creeks Initiative Program to manage the giant cane 19 (Arundo donax). 20 MS. BUSHNOE: This is also another item that 21 was brought before the Court in previous years. So the 22 contractors, they come for about a week and they'll try 23 to treat all the property that we have -- that UGRA 24 staff has mapped and identified the location. And so 25 they have just in a trailer, a water tank that they need 42 1 to mix the herbicide with. And it's about 300 gallons 2 is what they used last year. 3 And so again, the UGRA parking lot spigot is 4 their primary fill up location. And we'd just like to 5 provide an alternative location as well. I don't think 6 they have ever used the water at the Hill Country Youth 7 Event Center before, but it was an authorized location 8 during previous years and they have instructions to 9 contact Shane via phone, prior to coming for the first 10 time in a year so he can verify the location. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 12 approval. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 15 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 16 approve the use of the water -- to fill the water tanks 17 at the Youth Event Center for the Healthy Creeks 18 Initiative Program. And let me just say, Ms. Bushnoe, 19 we are very proud to partner with the UGRA on all these 20 projects. And we appreciate you coming in. 21 MS. BUSHNOE: Thanks very much. We 22 appreciate your support. 23 JUDGE KELLY: These are pretty much 24 no-brainer requests for approval but -- 25 MS. BUSHNOE: Well, I felt it was good to 43 1 come today since we were asking for several things. So 2 I appreciate it very much. 3 JUDGE KELLY: So is there any other 4 discussion on this topic? Okay. Those in favor raise 5 your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 6 MS. BUSHNOE: Thank you. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Tell Ray hello for us. 8 MS. BUSHNOE: I will. Thank you. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 1.8 -- I saw the Tax 10 Assessor-Collector out there somewhere. Consider, 11 discuss and take appropriate action to approve the new 12 optional $1.50 Child Safety Fee for 2021 vehicle 13 registration. Mr. Reeves. 14 MR. REEVES: Good morning, gentlemen. 15 Judge, could you call the next item? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 17 MR. REEVES: Then this one would be better 18 understood after we -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 20 MR. REEVES: -- do the first one. 21 JUDGE KELLY: We'll call them both together. 22 Well, let's just do all three of them. 1.9 consider, 23 discuss and take appropriate action to approve an 24 optional $10.00 County Road & Bridge fee for 2021. And 25 1.10 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 44 1 submit the Annual County Fee Changes for FY 2021. So if 2 you'll take the lead. 3 MR. REEVES: Thank you, Judge. If we pay 4 attention to, I believe, it's 1.8, is that the one on 5 the $10 fee? 6 JUDGE KELLY: No, 1.9. 7 MR. REEVES: 1.9. Okay. 1.9 is held under 8 Section 502.401 of the Transportation Code. It allows 9 the County to charge a fee not to exceed $10.00 when 10 registering a vehicle. The $10.00 fee is dedicated to 11 the County Road & Bridge fund. During the 2019 calendar 12 year, according to Texas DMV, Kerr County collected 13 $563,920.00, which went specifically to the Road & 14 Bridge fund. 15 The fee must be approved prior to September 16 1 of each year, and becomes effective as of January 1st. 17 I have copied the information from the DMV Handbook for 18 your review. And I respectfully request that the Court 19 approve this $10.00 optional fee, which has been in 20 effect for a number of years. Such fee would be 21 effective January 1st, 2021. And after the approval, I 22 will forward the Court Order to the Texas DMV. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Bob, this is something 24 you do each year, isn't it? 25 MR. REEVES: This one is, yes. That's 45 1 correct, Commissioner. And the money is specifically 2 dedicated to Road & Bridge. 3 JUDGE KELLY: So let's take a specific vote 4 on that one. This is 1.9. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 8 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 9 approve the $10.00 fee from County Road & Bridge. Any 10 other discussion on that? Those in favor raise your 11 hand. Unanimous, five zero. 12 Okay. Going to 1.8 now? 13 MR. REEVES: The first one, yes, sir. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 15 MR. REEVES: Yes, sir. This one is under 16 Section 402.403 of the Transportation Code, and it 17 allows the County to charge a fee not to exceed $1.50 18 when registering a vehicle. This fee is dedicated to 19 child safety. The fee must be approved prior to 20 September 1 of each year, and it becomes effective on 21 January the 1st. 22 The Auditor called my office the other day 23 inquiring about this. This would be a new fee. This 24 fee would be divided between the County and the 25 municipalities proportionally to population. The 46 1 portion of this fee, and I've talked to a colleague in 2 Blanco County who uses this, they use this for -- in 3 lieu of tax dollars for certain organizations, Child 4 Services Board, like what Ms. Grinstead is on, CASA, 5 other child-related safety fees. Kerr County would be 6 able to retain ten percent off the top, and then the 7 rest would be proportionally divided between the two 8 municipalities and the County, according to population. 9 I believe Miss Shelton has some dollars and cents that 10 she may want to explain to you. 11 MRS. SHELTON: Yeah. We estimated there 12 would be about -- or there were about 56,000 auto 13 registrations last year. And so we only took that 14 amount for nine months because the fee will not go into 15 effect until January. And so, for the administration 16 cost that Kerr County will keep is around $6,000.00. 17 And we would also -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Did you say six? 19 MRS. SHELTON: $6,000, uh-huh. 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's at ten percent? 21 MRS. SHELTON: That's the ten percent. And 22 then the Kerr County, on the part that would be spent 23 for the child safety, would be $29,000. Kerrville would 24 receive approximately $26,000, and the City of Ingram 25 would receive approximately $2,000. In looking at it is 47 1 what -- in addition to what Mr. Reeves was saying, in 2 addition to that, in speaking with the County Attorney, 3 we also looked at it said that we can use it for the 4 protection of the public and public safety. And so in 5 using that, our Juvenile Probation Department would also 6 be counted in that. So we'd spend approximately 7 $966,000. I'm just saying we have plenty of opportunity 8 where we're spending that money. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But this becomes the 10 earmark. This is a separate fund. This doesn't go in 11 the general fund. This is for a specific purpose. 12 MRS. SHELTON: It goes into the general fund 13 for specific purposes. Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So. 15 MRS. SHELTON: Because we're spending more 16 money than -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, but how do we 18 keep track -- how is that maintained? How do we keep 19 track of it? 20 MRS. SHELTON: Whenever we're looking at the 21 budget we'll be pulling that revenue in. And then we'll 22 just be knowing what it can be spent on and making sure 23 that we're -- we're spending that money for those 24 purposes. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But it's a new tax 48 1 going on the general fund, which -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which is earmarked for 3 something else. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's not 5 earmarked. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it sounds like it 7 is. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, it's not. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It can only be used for 10 certain purposes. 11 MRS. SHELTON: It can only be used for 12 certain purposes, yes. But not all of our funds that 13 are earmarked go into a separate fund. We have quite a 14 few funds that are earmarked. Just like the $10 fee is 15 in our general Road & Bridge. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 17 MRS. SHELTON: And so, it -- it's got more 18 specifics in there, but we know that we spend more money 19 -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Like keeping receipts 21 to -- 22 MRS. SHELTON: -- than that on those -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- show where it came 24 from? 25 MRS. SHELTON: -- purchases. Exactly. Yes, 49 1 sir. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But you list -- you've 3 mentioned about six different things where this could be 4 used. 5 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But bottom line, it's a 7 new tax? 8 MRS. SHELTON: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And just -- 10 MRS. SHELTON: And also, part of this also 11 comes under -- in the April of 2020 County Progress, it 12 was talking about County budget preparation under Senate 13 bill two, and one of the recommendations in there was to 14 lock at all of your optional taxes. Just because of the 15 constraints that have been put on the property taxes. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And this isn't -- this 17 isn't really a new tax. This is a user fee. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, it's a new tax. 19 MR. REEVES: No, sir. If I may. It's not a 20 tax. It's added to your registration of vehicles. You 21 don't have to be a taxpayer to register a vehicle. It 22 makes no difference to my office if we collect it or 23 not. I think they did this for the benefit of the 24 constraints of property tax, a fee that we can utilize 25 to add to it. Just like the Road & Bridge is now a 50 1 mandatory fee, but we utilize that $10 to fund Road & 2 Bridge. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the user fee is what 4 I call that. 5 MR. REEVES: A user fee. If you register a 6 vehicle, naturally, the Sheriff's fleet, Road & Bridge, 7 any exempt vehicles, it's not charged. These -- you 8 know, there's a number of them that aren't charged. But 9 this is a fee. It's available for your consideration. 10 And it makes no difference to my office, it's just a 11 bookkeeping procedure that we'll do on each week of the 12 report when we remit the money. But it -- it's no more 13 billings, the State calculates it when they send out -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: But this is a registration 15 fee, just like a driver's license fee. It's not a tax? 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 17 MR. REEVES: It's a registration when you 18 renew your sticker on your trailer or whatever you do, 19 it's an additional $1.50. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's money out of -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's the thing that 22 makes people say, it wasn't this much last year. So -- 23 MR. REEVES: Yeah. I'll be getting that 24 call. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. Yeah. 51 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The $6,000 would be 2 collected regardless. So it's an administration cost. 3 MR. REEVES: If we don't -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: How would you -- 5 MR. REEVES: -- collect it, I won't -- we 6 don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm saying regardless, 8 that goes back into the general fund and stays in the 9 general fund. 10 MR. REEVES: Right. 11 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: For the trouble of 13 collecting and distributing? 14 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may say, one of 17 the other uses I think that can be used with this, that 18 we used to get from TxDOT and different organizations, 19 and us and the City put on different clinics about it, 20 was child safety seats. Car seats that are actually 21 approved ones, and not just hand-me-downs for people 22 that can't afford them. Okay. And we would put on 23 clinics and we would fish you out and give out approved 24 child safety seats. And those aren't cheap for people 25 that can't afford them. And if I'm not mistaken, I 52 1 think this type of fee can be used to purchase those 2 seats that have them in storage for people to -- 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Call it a tax or call 4 it a fee, it's still additional funds that people have 5 to pay? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the City of 8 Kerrville -- I presume they have uses for this as well? 9 MR. REEVES: Many of the City use them for 10 crossing guards, striping of crosswalks at schools, 11 which I'm assuming that can be used for that as well. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Child safety is -- is a 13 pretty big umbrella so -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the buzz word 15 there, Commissioner. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Which we're all 17 for and if they say it's for the children, everybody 18 should pray they vote against it. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Earmark. So 20 physically, okay, it's going to go to this, not that it 21 could go for this. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Right. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So if you're turning 24 out a plan, maybe forfeit it. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If we don't have a 53 1 plan, where's it get lumped in then? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it doesn't just 3 get lumped in. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, but it -- we're 5 going to have to, if we do this, figure out where it's 6 going to go and I agree with Commissioner Moser. I 7 mean, it is still more money at a time when we're going 8 to be asking people -- or our Volunteer Fire Departments 9 are going to be asking to establish ESD's and all these 10 other things. It becomes the nickel and dime thing that 11 people begin to resent. And it gets expensive, all of 12 it. 13 Now, this is probably a once a year, maybe 14 twice a year thing. About a buck fifty for each time I 15 go in and get a registration, right? 16 MR. REEVES: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So maybe three 18 dollars a year. Or four or five. You know, in -- in 19 case some of these guys that have fleets. How many 20 vehicles do you have? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Way too many. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 24 we approve the new fee and I'll make a comment. If I 25 get a second. 54 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 3 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 4 approve $1.50 Child Safety Fee for vehicle registration 5 for 2021. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment I'll make is 7 that, you know, property tax is our big source. But 8 there's a lot of people that don't own property that own 9 vehicles. And this is also a way to -- to spread that 10 out a little bit to help property owners is the way I 11 look at it. I think that it's -- we use these types of 12 fees, lots of them, throughout our budget and -- and to 13 me it's a benefit. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We got a motion and a 15 second. Anymore discussion? Those in favor raise your 16 hand. Those opposed raise your hand. Three, two. 17 (Commissioner Moser and Harris opposed.) 18 JUDGE KELLY: Hotly contested issues. 19 Now, let's address 1.10 that's -- I have to 20 admit when I read this on the agenda, I had to ask our 21 boss, Jody, what I was doing. If this is a form that I 22 have to fill out and send in to the DMV with regard to 23 these fees that I just set? 24 MR. REEVES: Or -- or my office can. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 55 1 MR. REEVES: I do need Court orders to go 2 with them. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Right. So this is -- I'll go 4 ahead and make the motion that we -- that Bob and I are 5 authorized to submit the Annual County Fee Changes for 6 the FY 2021 to the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles, 7 and you'll see that form under Tab 1.10 in the -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: -- materials. Okay. So I 10 made the motion, seconded by Commissioner Letz, to 11 approve filling out the changes and sending them in to 12 the DMV. Any other discussion about that? Those in 13 favor raise your hand. Five zero, unanimous. 14 Okay. It's not quite ten o'clock, which are 15 our next series of timed items. So why don't we take 16 about a five minute break and we'll come back at ten 17 o'clock. 18 (Recess.) 19 JUDGE KELLY: The Court come back to order. 20 We're now on Item 1.11, the public hearing regarding the 21 "No Parking" signs installed at Homilius Road East 22 Bridge. Precinct 3. Kelly Hoffer. 23 Okay. This is a public meeting. I've now 24 convened the public meeting. If there's anybody that 25 was here that would like to speak on the "No Parking" 56 1 signs on Homilius Road, this is your opportunity. Is 2 there anyone? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Anybody out here to 4 speak on the public hearing on the road signs on 5 Homilius Road? Nope. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Then I'm going to 7 adjourn the public meeting. And now let's move to 8 Item 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action 9 for the Commissioners' Court Final Approval regarding 10 "No Parking" signs installed at Homilius Road East 11 Bridge. Precinct 3. Kelly Hoffer. 12 MS. HOFFER: Good morning. On May 17th, 13 2020, Chris Summers made a request to Marshall Heap at 14 TxDOT regarding trespassing issues property owners were 15 having along the Guadalupe River near Homilius Road East 16 Bridge. Mr. Heap forwarded the information to Charlie 17 Hastings, the Kerr County Engineer. 18 We spoke with Commissioner Letz on this 19 issue and have decided to install "No Parking" signs at 20 this bridge. I have enclosed a map with sign locations. 21 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 22 for their final approval regarding the installation of 23 "No Parking" signs at the Homilius Road East Bridge in 24 Precinct 3. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move for approval. 57 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 3 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 4 approve the "No Parking" signs at Homilius Road. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment. 6 And I think the reason I'm in favor of this is we've 7 done it throughout the County, many times. And I think 8 it's -- you know, should continue. 9 But the other comment there was a female 10 that -- for me, Charlie or Kelly, about how much we 11 spend on signs and whether we really need to look at a 12 -- our policy and narrow down. Do we -- should we put 13 signs as we are right now in situations like this, or 14 should we follow the transportation manual and that's 15 it. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What do you mean, 17 that's it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just may or may not 19 qualify. I don't know if it would or wouldn't, but I 20 know that there's -- we have a lot of signs up. Curbs 21 and speed limits. You know. We have a lot of 22 unnecessary signs that we put up for all kinds of 23 reasons. Because -- mainly because our constituents ask 24 for it, but they're not technically required signs. 25 They're signs because we want to put up a sign or 58 1 someone wants a sign put up. 2 So anyway, I think we oughta look at those 3 maybe sometime in the future because, you know, and I'm 4 just bringing this up because I think it was something 5 that came -- I won't say it's getting out of hand now, 6 but it's -- we're doing more and more signage all the 7 time. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, this one's for 9 safety, right? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. And I don't know 12 how long it'll stay up but I can tell you where there's 13 a bunch more of these that get taken down. All over 14 Kerr County. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: There's a lot of 17 maintenance with these signs. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So anyway, I'm in favor 19 of it because this is our -- our policy has been to do 20 things like this. But I think we need to look at that 21 policy at some point in time. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. Any other 23 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 24 five zero. 25 Item 1.13 consider, discuss and take 59 1 appropriate action to set a public hearing regarding the 2 removal of the road name of Padre Pio Drive West. 3 Precinct 4. Kelly Hoffer. 4 MS. HOFFER: Mark Del Toro from the 9-1-1 5 office applied on July 8th, 2020, to have the existing 6 road name of Padre Pio Drive West removed from the 7 record. All of the road will be named Cummings Lane 8 West, I believe. Mark is here so we can further discuss 9 on this. Which was named in 2010, and Padre Pio Drive 10 West was never removed. 11 Kerr County maintains Cummings Road West 12 from Blue Ridge Road West to Ed's Way West, 13 approximately 400 feet. The section from Ed's Way West 14 to the end is not maintained by Kerr County and 15 currently has a sign that states Kerr County maintenance 16 ends. 17 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 18 to set a public hearing for Monday, September 14th, 2020 19 at 10:00 a.m., and this is in Precinct 4. And if you 20 have any questions on -- Mark Del Toro is here. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 24 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser 25 to set a public hearing for September the 14th at 60 1 10:00 a.m. with regard to removal of the road named 2 Padre Pio Drive West. Any other discussion? Those in 3 favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Thank you, Mark. 5 MR. DEL TORO: Sure. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.14 consider, discuss 7 and take appropriate action for the Commissioners' Court 8 to set a public hearing regarding the installation of a 9 Stop sign at the intersection of Horizon Blvd. S. and 10 Sheppard Rees Rd. S. in Precinct 1. Kelly Hoffer. 11 MS. HOFFER: We had a gentleman that came 12 in. He actually came into the engineering department a 13 week or so ago and had said more than once when he's on 14 Sheppard Rees heading towards the State Hospital that 15 somebody's coming out of the gate at Horizon and he says 16 as he puts it, they punch it to get ahead of them. And 17 he said the second time, he almost was hit. 18 So I went back into the records to -- 19 because I couldn't believe that we didn't have any 20 record of a Stop Sign at that location just because 21 Sheppard Rees has got a lot of traffic on it, and I 22 could not find anything. 23 So I kind of had to start from scratch on 24 that. I talked to Charlie and Bobby about it in the 25 Engineering Department, and they both agreed that there 61 1 should be a Stop Sign there. We might have to do some 2 additional marking because that entrance at Horizon is 3 so incredibly wide. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, I was going to 5 ask you where you were going to put the sign without 6 some kind of stripes or something? 7 MS. HOFFER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So can you stripe that? 9 MS. HOFFER: Well stripe, or we'll do some 10 sort of buttons or some RPM, raised pavement markers -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But you can mark it? 12 Okay. 13 MS. HOFFER: -- something. But I did -- I 14 did want to bring this, you know, to the attention of 15 the Court, and it does take a Court Order in order to 16 put up a regulatory sign. And I do think that this 17 would be a very good location. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But this is to set a 19 public hearing, right? 20 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move for approval. 22 MS. HOFFER: And that public hearing would 23 be Monday, September 14th, 2020, at 10:00 a.m. And this 24 is in Precinct 1. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 62 1 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 2 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 3 set a public hearing on the installation of a Stop sign 4 at the intersection of Horizon Boulevard South and 5 Sheppard Rees Road South for September the 14th at 10:00 6 a.m. Any further discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think there was a 8 song, "Sign, Sign, Sign, Everywhere a Sign," or 9 something like that. 10 JUDGE KELLY: That goes back a ways, Don. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, it does. That's 12 the way to look at it. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 14 in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 15 Item 1.15 consider, discuss and take 16 appropriate action for the Commissioners' Court to 17 approve the Kerr County -- three Kerr County agreements 18 regarding storage of Kerr County Owned Materials on 19 private property. This is in Precincts 1, 2 and 4. 20 Ms. Hoffer. 21 MS. HOFFER: We worked with the County 22 Attorney on this, and she had helped write up an 23 agreement for us to be able to store paving rock, road 24 base, various materials, and sometimes equipment. It's 25 just getting harder and harder for us to be able to 63 1 store things. It used to not be that hard. But I have 2 before you three signed agreements from the property 3 owners regarding temporary storage of Kerr County Owned 4 Materials and/or equipment on private property. 5 The County Attorney worked with Road & 6 Bridge on this agreement for temporary equipment and 7 material storage on private property. We try and store 8 our materials within the County's right-of-way and/or 9 County properties. It's just becoming more and more 10 challenging to find places that are close to the area 11 that we are working on. All agreements are good for one 12 year. The current agreements for today are as follows: 13 100 Ace Reid Road North. Thomas Brown is 14 the owner. It's in Precinct 1 and it's paving rock. 15 240 Southway Drive, Grace Bible Chapel is 16 the owner. Precinct 2. Paving rock and equipment 17 year-round storage. Actually, I think that's 18 Precinct 1. 19 384 Kelly Creek Road, Cody and Vicki Fry are 20 the owners, Precinct 1, for paving rock. 21 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 22 for their approval of the three Kerr County agreements 23 regarding storage of Kerr County materials on private 24 property, and for the Kerr County Judge to sign the 25 same, and these are in Precinct 1, 2 and 4. 64 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Let me -- 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 3 approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- let me ask a 5 question, Kelly. These are all dated the same. They 6 all went into effect on the same day? 7 JUDGE KELLY: Before we start talking about 8 it, do I have a second? 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 11 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Moser. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Sorry. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Please. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All of these contracts 15 went into effect on the same day and they're now 16 updating on the same day? 17 MS. HOFFER: Whenever they were signed, I 18 waited to get -- I waited to get them all signed and 19 then I signed them. But instead of bringing one at a 20 time, I tried to kind of group them and then it got 21 delayed at a location that we ended up having the rock 22 put somewhere else because we couldn't get the people. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So a year ago we did 24 all three and they -- they commenced on the same date? 25 You said these have to be done annually? 65 1 MS. HOFFER: This is the first time that 2 we've done this. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. This -- I didn't 4 remember this so that's why I'm asking? 5 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 7 MS. HOFFER: We did not do it last year. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 9 in favor approving these three agreements, raise your 10 hand. Unanimous, five zero. 11 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Item 1.17 13 clarification of the drainage requirements for the 14 Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured Housing -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're on 1.16. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: 1.16. 17 JUDGE KELLY: One six. Okay. Public 18 hearing. Oh, public hearing. This is a public hearing 19 for the revision of plat for Spicer Ranch Lots 25 and 20 31. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Public hearing on one 22 six, anybody here to speak to that? No, Your Honor. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Having no one appear, 24 then we will adjourn and go on to Item 1.17, which is 25 Clarification of drainage requirements for the 66 1 Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured Housing 2 and Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located 3 at State Highway 27 and Hoot Owl Hollow. Precinct 4. 4 Charlie Hastings. 5 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. Per the Local 6 Government Code, Section 232.007(c)(1), the Court may 7 establish minimum standards that may include reasonable 8 specifications to provide adequate drainage in 9 accordance with standard engineering practices, 10 including specifying necessary drainage culverts and 11 identifying areas included in the 100-year floodplain. 12 On September 23rd, 2019 the Court approved 13 Order No. 37728, approve and grant a variance to the 14 manufactured housing rental community regulation's 15 stormwater detention calculation requirements, and 16 instead require the Meadowbrook Retirement Community to 17 reduce the stormwater flows for proposed conditions to a 18 level that is equal to existing condition flows. 19 The purpose behind this variance was to 20 bring Kerr County's Manufactured Home Rental Community 21 stormwater regulations into compliance with the Local 22 Government Code as it is related to reasonable 23 specifications and standard engineering practices for 24 the Meadowbrook Retirement Community. 25 On February 24th, 2020 the Court approved 67 1 the Order No. 37968, "Approve the Meadowbrook Retirement 2 Community Manufactured Housing Rental Community 3 Development Plan, Phase I, located at State Highway 27 4 and Hoot Owl Hollow". 5 The County Engineer's memo, dated February 6 24th, 2020 was read into the minutes, and contained an 7 error in reference to Court Order No. 37728 noted above. 8 The error that was read into the February 24, 2020 9 minutes is found on Page 83 and noted below. I'll read 10 it: 11 Line 13, and the Kerr County -- beginning on 12 Line 13 and ending on Line 17. And the Kerr County 13 submission guidelines allow up to a five percent 14 increase in post-development peak flows for residential 15 drainage calculation, which were authorized to be used 16 by the Court in September of 2019. 17 The corrected County Engineer memo reads: 18 Although the Kerr County subdivision guidelines allow up 19 to a five percent increase in post-development peak 20 flows for residential drainage calculations, Court Order 21 No. 37728, dated September 23rd, 2019 requires the 22 Meadowbrook Retirement Community to reduce the 23 stormwater flows for proposed conditions to a level that 24 is equal to existing condition flows. Plans and 25 construction shall be revised to reflect such 68 1 conditions. 2 This error was noticed by the County 3 Engineer on July 16th, 2020 after a field visit to 4 inspect stormwater erosion control at the Meadowbrook 5 Retirement Community construction site, at which time 6 the County Engineer contacted the Engineer for Record of 7 the Project, John Hewitt, P.E., and the Developer, Chris 8 Mundahl, to remind them of the condition imposed by the 9 Court through Order No. 37728. 10 Both the Engineer and Developer agreed they 11 would follow Court Order No. 37728 as it relates to 12 storm drainage calculations, construction, and flow. 13 Construction plans and drainage calculations are now 14 being revised and will be reflected in the Record 15 Drawings before final acceptance. 16 In accordance with Section 1.03.C of the 17 Manufactured Home Rental Communities regulations, the 18 steps for approval, construction, and a certificate of 19 compliance are the following: 20 1.03C. Construction of a proposed 21 manufactured home rental community may not begin before 22 the date the County Engineer approves the Development 23 Plan. The County Engineer or Commissioners' Court may 24 require inspection of the infrastructure during its 25 construction and shall require a final inspection. The 69 1 final inspection must be completed not later than the 2 second business day after the date the County Engineer 3 receives an affidavit from the owner of the manufactured 4 home rental community that construction of the 5 infrastructure has been completed in accordance with the 6 approved Development Plan. 7 If the County Engineer determines that the 8 infrastructure complies with the Development Plan, the 9 Commissioners' Court shall issue a Certificate of 10 Compliance not later than the 5th business day after the 11 date the final inspection is completed. 12 Because of the tight five-day Certificate of 13 Compliance requirement, the County Engineer will likely 14 place this item on a future court agenda that may not be 15 a regular meeting, depending on the date of the final 16 inspection, which at this time is unknown. Construction 17 began after February 2020 and it is currently about 50 18 percent complete. Maybe -- maybe a little bit more. 19 MRS. STEBBINS: Order -- I believe what 20 Charlie said, 37728 was declared void by Judge Pattillo 21 on Friday, and so that item has been reposted 22 appropriately for 12:30 today, and it was posted for 23 12:30 because that was just about the time that the 24 hearing wrapped up and he wanted to get it appropriately 25 posted. So I recommend that you pass on this item for 70 1 any further consideration until 12:30 when you're able 2 to call the 1.25 addendum to this today's agenda. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I'll tell you 4 there has been a lot of people contacting me since 5 Friday. And a lot of people are upset. I've had calls 6 from people out of town on trips that couldn't be here 7 that would like to speak on it. And they're out of 8 town. They're out of the State. And my feeling for 9 full transparency on this stuff, where everybody can 10 talk, and I see a lot of people out here that want to 11 talk, we should put this off, pass -- 12 MRS. STEBBINS: You can't really pass the 13 1.25 until we're able to call the 1.25 at 12:30 -- 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: -- because there could be 16 people who may come at 12:30 ready to talk about it. So 17 we can't pass on the 1.25. You can pass this one now to 18 make that decision at 1.25 if you'd like to, but I think 19 that to appropriately wait until the right time that you 20 can actually call it as that timed item, you need to 21 wait to have this conversation until that time. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: At 12:30. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's all understood. 25 JUDGE KELLY: I -- I agree with you on the 71 1 1.25. What is it that is the 1.17 -- 2 MRS. STEBBINS: The 1.17 -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: -- can we do anything with 4 that? 5 MR. HASTINGS: What I intend -- our 1.17 was 6 to clarify an error and to make a correction in the 7 record. I'm not asking -- it's just a clarification. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: And that was from the 9 February error, is that correct? 10 MR. HASTINGS: That's correct. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 12 MR. HASTINGS: A February error. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So 1.17 has nothing to do with 14 Order 37728? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, there was an 16 Order in here that was 37968, I think you said, 17 Charlie -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: That's -- that's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- That was in error? 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's the February 14 that's 21 in error? Is that right, Charlie? I'm trying to 22 understand what the issue is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 37968 is an error. But 24 the error that we were trying to clarify was voided 25 under that Court Order. 72 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't know how we 3 can take action on this one because -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's no action 5 required, is there? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there should -- I 7 mean, the -- where the variance was granted, is voided, 8 therefore, in my mind it almost voids the other order as 9 well. Because they're related. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: Maybe -- maybe -- but that 11 might be the right answer, it may just take some 12 cleaning up later. But that -- we can -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to go 14 talk about the -- I think we need to pass on this at 15 this time, Judge. 16 JUDGE KELLY: I just want to make sure I 17 understand what the issue is. And reading what Charlie 18 read to us, which was the attachment in our materials, 19 that originally what this Court approved was a variance 20 to reduce the stormwater flows to the proposed 21 conditions to a level that is equal to existing 22 condition flows? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Is that right? 25 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. That's correct. 73 1 JUDGE KELLY: And then it looks like the 2 correction you wanted to make was to allow up to five 3 percent increase. 4 MR. HASTINGS: No, sir. I wanted to clarify 5 that in my memo that I read into the minutes in February 6 was inaccurate. It had an error. And -- 7 JUDGE KELLY: Because it said five percent? 8 MR. HASTINGS: It says the five and it 9 should have said no increase at all. 10 JUDGE KELLY: So it's supposed to be equal 11 to the existing clause. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So there's no need to correct 14 that at this point. Although -- that's the other order. 15 MR. HASTINGS: I thought it was important 16 for the community to know. If they were to have read in 17 September of last year what the Court approved, and then 18 they read again what was approved in February, they 19 would see that there is a difference between the two, 20 and there should not have been a difference. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But there's no action 22 required. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Well, I think it's a 24 clarification. There -- there is some confusion on this 25 issue. And when I noticed my memo from February of this 74 1 year I thought that might be the -- that might be the 2 confusion. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So then the Court Order 4 needs to be rescinded. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the agenda item? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: 1.17. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I get my confuse -- my 8 confusion -- I look at it as Court Order 37968 stands 9 right now and it stands with an error, so -- 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it needs to be 11 rescinded. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it should be clear -- 13 no, it should be clarified that the -- the confusion 14 then comes into my mind is because the order where we 15 granted the variance to make it equal has been voided. 16 So we can still clarify that 37968 should be equal, not 17 up to five percent. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Well, okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But it changes stuff 20 that's been done. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: Charlie, that -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that's closing the 25 gate after the cow's out. 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. That wasn't an 2 agreement to it. 3 JUDGE KELLY: What -- what -- what did -- 4 what was the application that was presented to us back 5 in September of last year? Was that to have equal flows 6 or an additional five percent? 7 MR. HASTINGS: I -- I presented that it be 8 equal. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 10 MR. HASTINGS: Equal flow. Pre and 11 post-development be equal, which would require a 12 detention. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And if it's equal, what 14 is the variance? Is there any variance there? 15 MR. HASTINGS: Our regulations require -- 16 our Manufactured Housing Rental Community regulations 17 are requiring that you detain more than what is leaving 18 the site before you developed it. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Five percent more? 20 MR. HASTINGS: No, sir. 20 percent more. 21 In a hundred year, 50 percent more than in the -- 50 for 22 the -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: So -- so in essence, what was 24 done back in September was a variance was granted to 25 reduce -- or to actually increase the drainage by 20 76 1 percent? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduce the drainage by 3 20 percent. Reduce the required runoff -- 4 MR. HASTINGS: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- by 20 percent. 6 JUDGE KELLY: All right. 7 MR. HASTINGS: Our regulations right now as 8 they stand, I believe, are -- they're not reasonable. I 9 think it was an error when it was written. And that's 10 what I presented to the Court in September. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, before we get there. 12 I'm just trying to get the baby steps here. What we 13 approved was an equal drainage, right? 14 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Equal to the existing 16 drainage? 17 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And the regulations at the 19 time when it required it to be 20 percent greater than 20 the existing drainage? 21 MR. HASTINGS: A -- a reduction by 20 22 percent in the hundred year storm. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And so that's what we -- 24 MR. HASTINGS: Over existing conditions. 25 JUDGE KELLY: -- because there would have 77 1 been less drainage allowed if we had enforced the 2 regulation at the time? 3 MR. HASTINGS: If we would have enforced the 4 regulation at the time, water would be detained and -- 5 and then probably released at the same time that the 6 river is peaking and cause an adverse impact. So it -- 7 it's just not engineering practice -- good engineering 8 practice to do that. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 10 MR. HASTINGS: It should be equal. 11 JUDGE KELLY: -- and I understand and -- and 12 that's probably where we're going to have to get on some 13 of this stuff. But I'm just trying to figure out where 14 we are today. The Order that we approved in September 15 of last year, actually increased the amount of drainage 16 that would normally be allowed into Johnson Creek. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Decreased the amount of 18 drainage? 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, increased. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You don't need a 22 variance for a decrease. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was a variance. 25 So -- 78 1 MRS. STEBBINS: And -- and if you'll 2 remember back then, y'all -- and we've been having this 3 conversation for a long time, we want to -- we've been 4 talking about changing our subdivision rules and 5 regulations, which this one -- which it -- it needs to 6 be tweaked. Because it doesn't -- like Charlie said, it 7 doesn't make any sense. 8 However, we've been putting that off because 9 -- now because of the coronavirus, and Chuck Kimbrough 10 has started work on it for us last year, and we were 11 looking towards taking care of that in last November, 12 and now here we sit. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, but still, what 14 are we trying to accomplish here with this agenda item? 15 MR. HASTINGS: To clarify what happened 16 in -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it will be 18 unclear until after Executive Session. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean the whole issue. 21 I mean it's all -- it's a lot of interrelated things 22 here. But I think the -- you have to go back to -- we 23 have subdivision rules, and we have manufactured homes 24 rules. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 79 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our subdivision rules 2 allow up to a five percent increase, if you're a small 3 subdivision. 4 MR. HASTINGS: That is correct. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our -- the manufactured 6 home rules, I don't if I can go back in history, I 7 almost want to say that what we adopted because we tried 8 to model them after our subdivision rules, and we got 9 sued and lost so we adopted the State Rules, I believe. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: And -- and I think that what 11 Charlie read into the record just a minute ago was that 12 our mobile home park rules don't mirror State Law and so 13 what we're trying to do with the variance was to get it 14 to comply with State Law. And so the -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MRS. STEBBINS: -- the provision in there. 17 JUDGE KELLY: And what is State Law? 18 MR. HASTINGS: State Law is that we have 19 reasonable regulations for drainage. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's clear as mud. 21 MR. HASTINGS: That follow engineering -- 22 standard engineering practices. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me, and this 24 is also not really a subdivision. When you do work on 25 your property, you're not supposed to increase the 80 1 drainage off that property. 2 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the model. I 5 mean that's what you're doing. Trying to -- to say when 6 you do something you have to decrease the drainage 7 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But that's 8 what our rules currently say. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: So you can take no action at 10 this time and then at -- if you'd like to -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's no action here. 13 What action could we take? 14 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's what I'm trying 15 to figure out. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We can't. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The action is to clarify 18 that Court Order 37968 should have read "no increase of 19 runoff." 20 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So do we have to void a 22 Court Order and have a new Court Order? 23 MRS. STEBBINS: You can revise your Court 24 Order. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I would think we'd just 81 1 start over again. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Huh? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: You can revise your Court 4 Order. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'm looking at the Court 7 Order -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE KELLY: -- and all it says is that it 10 approves their development plan. Phase I. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And so the 12 clarification is -- and that's -- but that Order was 13 based on the statement that was made in September, which 14 was the variance was granted to go up to -- the drainage 15 runoff had to be equal. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, is the -- the 18 revision then to say to reflect State Law or to state 19 what you just stated? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The revision would be 21 the clarification as to what happened was, it should go 22 back to no increased runoff. Because that's what the 23 variance that we talked about, that -- I think what's 24 clouded in my mind is that variance has now been -- or 25 the Court Order that did that variance is now void. So 82 1 I don't know if we can -- I mean -- but I think we 2 could -- 3 MR. HASTINGS: The error was only in my 4 memo. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MR. HASTINGS: There was no error in the 7 Court Order that you adopted in September of 2019. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that's -- that's 9 what I mean. If there's no error in the Court Order so 10 we don't have to do anything. 11 MR. HASTINGS: It's -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You're talking about -- 13 MR. HASTINGS: -- a clarification of what my 14 memo should have said. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, how -- how is 16 your clarification -- it's just in a memo or something, 17 right? We don't take any action on that. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Well, here -- here's the 19 problem. The Order that got voided is 37728. And it 20 says, "equal to existing conditions flow." Okay. 21 Stormwater flows from post conditions to a level that is 22 equal to existing condition flows. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that's voided. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And that's gone. So what do 25 we have in place then? 83 1 MR. HASTINGS: We have our -- 2 MRS. STEBBINS: 37968. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: Which is the order approving 5 the plan. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And so what's on the plan? 7 MR. HASTINGS: A five percent -- a three 8 and a half percent increase. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And that's what the 10 people are upset about is the three and a half percent 11 increase? 12 MR. HASTINGS: I believe so. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which is what required 15 the variance, it was going to increase. So if we go 16 back to just the zero impact, nobody can complain about 17 that. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Which is on -- that decision 19 is not in 1.25. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I know. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm saying, when you 23 have zero impact there's nothing to complain about then. 24 So that's obviously the goal. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And you're telling me 84 1 I can't -- 2 MRS. STEBBINS: You can't pass on 1.25 yet, 3 until 12:30, because we can't call it yet. You can't -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good point. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And 72 hours. Yeah, so this 6 previews of coming attractions. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the -- so I 8 understand this, order -- Court Order 37968 is 9 sufficiently vague to leave alone. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I don't think it's vague 11 at all. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not vague. We 13 approved it and the -- the plat that came in that was 14 signed has a three and a half percent on it. And that 15 -- and the plat had -- that was an error. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I shouldn't have 17 said maybe sufficient, it was in error. So it didn't 18 seem like it was terribly specific. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The plat was -- some of 20 the wording on the plat was in error. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we don't have to 22 take any action. The Court Order is in place. The 23 three and a half percent is in there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we don't want to do 25 three and a half percent. That's not what the 85 1 variance -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: No. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- our original 4 discussion was it's supposed to be equal and that's what 5 we did the variance on -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and that was -- it 8 was just missed on the plat before it got signed. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we can't take any 10 action on 37728, right? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So forget about that. 13 37968 approves the plat that was submitted by the 14 Developer. And the calculations on that plat and the 15 drawings on that plat increase the discharge by three 16 and a half percent. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Now, can't we just go back and 19 revise the Order to not allow the three and a half 20 percent since we never agreed to it to begin with? 21 Isn't that the case? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can. So -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: We didn't agree to the three 24 and a half percent, we agreed to equal. That's what got 25 set aside. So we take this one that has the three and a 86 1 half percent in it, take the three and a half percent 2 out and it goes back to equal, right? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: Well -- 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We -- you're saying we 7 didn't approve the three and a half percent increase? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What was the variance 10 for? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The variance was to get 12 no increase. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Why do you need a 14 variance for no increase? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the other one -- 16 the three and a half was an increase -- it was allowing 17 three and a half percent runoff, increase in runoff 18 and -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Wait a minute. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the variance that we 21 -- what we wanted was it to say no, you can't have any 22 runoff. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Gotcha. 24 JUDGE KELLY: All right. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: I think that this might be 87 1 more helpful for y'all to wait to be able to really talk 2 about the issues that 1.25 from the court voiding the 3 order. 4 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm fine with doing that 5 but I'm trying to be considerate of the people that have 6 taken the time to come down here and talk to us about 7 it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Without a doubt. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And, as you know, you and I 10 have a heavy juvenile docket at 1:30 so we have precious 11 little time at 12:30 to hear all this. I say all but 12 maybe one or two people that signed up wanted to talk on 13 17 and 25. So do we go forward and let the people talk 14 about 17 even if issues kind of spill over or not? 15 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't know. 16 JUDGE KELLY: What do we do? 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, they're all here. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the question I 19 have -- 20 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't know but -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question to 22 the County Attorney is, can we modify Court Order 37968 23 based on this agenda item? 24 MRS. STEBBINS: How would you want to modify 25 it? 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you modify that 2 the plat was in error when it said three and a half 3 percent increase, it should have said no increase. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you're modifying the 5 plat, not the Order? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the Order is 7 approving the plat. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: Aren't there notes on that? 9 Aren't there notes on the plat? 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The Engineer is here. 11 MR. HASTINGS: It's actually a development 12 plan; not a plat. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MR. HASTINGS: And the development plan, it 16 shows the three and a half percent increase and that was 17 in error; it should have been zero. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: And so the clarification that 20 we could have, would have, should have made was -- is to 21 take away that three and a half percent increase that 22 was on that plat. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Right. Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the development plan. 25 And we didn't see it -- it wasn't caught by Charlie or 89 1 by anyone on the Court, and -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: And the reason the Court set 3 aside the 728 has nothing to do with what we're talking 4 about right now. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 6 JUDGE KELLY: So we're not flying into the 7 face of some Court Order; we're just going back to fix 8 this one that it was properly noticed to get it back to 9 equal close. I think we can do that. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, all -- all of the 11 people that are here to speak, there may be some that 12 can't come back at 12:30. 13 JUDGE KELLY: I know, that's why I'm -- 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think it would be 15 considerate to let them go ahead now and -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Without a doubt. They 17 just -- everybody that wants to speak -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm looking at my County 19 Attorney and I'm getting a head shake. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, you've got an item 21 posted at 12:30 and you need to wait until 12:30 to 22 discuss that item. It's to comply with the Open 23 Meetings Act; otherwise, you're going to have the same 24 people back here complaining about not having sufficient 25 72-hour notice. And I know they want to talk right now, 90 1 and they can talk on the item 1.17 if it relates to that 2 specific issue, which is the 3.5 -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. At least get that three 4 and a half percent increase out of this order. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Okay. 6 MRS. STEBBINS: And -- and so -- but if -- 7 it would be -- I know that they're here and that their 8 time is precious, too, but if you're able to talk about 9 it with the 72-hours later, you're going to protect 10 yourselves a lot more if you just wait to talk about it 11 at 12:30. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But the people are 13 here. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the only thing that 15 happened last Friday was that the Court set aside the 16 Order because it didn't include the physical address of 17 the subdivision. Okay. We're not talking about that. 18 We don't have a problem with the 968 Order, do we? It's 19 in there, on that agenda item. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: But the 968, so something 21 else I'm considering that you really may want to wait 22 and on here, the 968 Order didn't even include what was 23 approved in the variance. So the 968 Order probably 24 still stands just fine, but it's -- you go back and 25 modify the 968 order to say, we don't want more runoff, 91 1 we want it to be what it was then -- then -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the 968 -- the 968 Order 3 granted a variance. 4 MR. HASTINGS: No. No, sir, the 728. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: The 728. 6 JUDGE KELLY: 728. I'm sorry. The 728 7 granted a variance. That's right. And that's what got 8 set aside. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So there's no variance. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: And the variance wasn't even 12 included in the 968 plans that were submitted and 13 approved. Right? 14 MR. HASTINGS: The -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the error. 16 MR. HASTINGS: That's -- 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You know, in the Court 19 Order, the one that's still active, still in effect, it 20 says approve the community development plan, Phase I. 21 Didn't have a date on it or anything else. Charlie 22 looked at the plan and says, oops, it has three and a 23 half percent in there and it shouldn't. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what we're talking 92 1 about is modifying the development plan; not the Court 2 Order, because it didn't reference -- it doesn't 3 reference a date on that. So can Charlie modify the 4 development plan without modifying the Court Order? 5 Seems to me like that's all he's gotta do. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- well, I hear you. I 7 think you're probably right. And here's -- here's what 8 the agenda item says. Clarification of drainage 9 requirements. It doesn't say order and it doesn't say 10 plan. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Of drainage requirements for 13 the Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured 14 Housing Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1, 15 located at, yadi, yadi. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Well, 17 clarification -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: We can discuss clarification 19 of drainage requirement. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the clarification 21 is, as Charlie said, it shouldn't have said three and a 22 half percent increase. End of discussion. That's it. 23 MRS. STEBBINS: And the -- and the -- 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So the -- wait just a 25 second. So the clarification is, it shouldn't say three 93 1 and a half percent increase. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, though, that 3 the -- and I agree with that. But the way we -- that is 4 worded, that may be partially my fault, I wasn't aware 5 of all this. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You weren't here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but I talked to 8 Charlie. I said clarification -- we need to clarify it. 9 I think that we can't go back and change that under this 10 agenda item, I don't think. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Uh-huh. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- we've 13 clarified it. Our intent is -- what our intent is, 14 there's an error on that Court Order, but it needs to be 15 reposted and -- so we can clarify that development plan. 16 Or to change the development plan. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's not even an 18 error in the Court Order because the Court Order doesn't 19 even reference a date on it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't reference a 21 date because there was one that the Judge signed. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the Court, based on 24 that. And I think that we have to repost that to say 25 there's an error on that specific development plan that 94 1 was approved on that date. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 3 JUDGE KELLY: We may have to post something 4 on our own. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE KELLY: But what this -- what this 7 agenda item says, clarification of drainage requirement. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And we've 9 clarified it. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: He's clarified it and so 11 maybe no action on this item. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No action on this item. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: And his action at a future 14 time -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: I've got people lined up out 16 there in that hallway that want to talk to me and I'm 17 going to do it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they can talk. 19 They can -- we can listen to them and clarify it but I 20 -- we can't -- I don't think we can take action on this. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think so either. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Let's listen to 23 them. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Let's hear 25 them. 95 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I've got your speaker 2 identifications here as we do this. Let me remind you 3 just to give your name and address, limit your talks to 4 -- your remarks to three minutes, and try to stay on 5 task. And I know it's going to be hard because of the 6 thing at 12:30 that we can't talk about, but that's what 7 we're going to try to do, because we're talking about 8 drainage requirements, clarifying drainage requirements. 9 First speaker to register is Roger Gordon. 10 MR. GORDON: Good morning, Judge Kelly, 11 Members of this Court. My name is Roger Gordon. I'm an 12 attorney from Austin, Texas. I'm here today on behalf 13 of all these folks that are standing out here. And I'm 14 the attorney who successfully convinced Judge Pattillo 15 on Friday to overturn the variance voiding the Order 16 from September 2019. Let's talk about what effect that 17 action had. 18 Picture a house of cards, y'all. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, wait a minute. What 20 does that have to do with clarifying drainage? 21 MR. GORDON: I'm going to explain it, Judge 22 Kelly, if you give me a second. When the Court voided 23 the variance, the Court essentially took out the bottom 24 of the house of cards. And every order that 25 subsequently was granted, including the item under 96 1 consideration for number 17 here that was approved in 2 February of this year -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: So you're saying Order 968 is 4 void? 5 MR. GORDON: That's right. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: That's not the action the 8 Court took, though. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- he can state his 10 position. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 12 MR. GORDON: And Your Honor, Judge Kelly, 13 the fact of the matter is, this is an example of why you 14 measure twice and you cut once. There's a lot of 15 confusion right now. And just as to what items are 16 being considered and what actions the Court can take. 17 I'll tell you, it was surprising on Friday to see the 18 Commissioners' Court repost this item just a few minutes 19 after the hearing ended. I'll tell you, just as 20 Ms. Stebbins and I disagreed prior to Friday's hearing 21 about whether there was an Open Meetings Act violation 22 of the September posting, the Court ultimately agreed 23 with me that there was an Open Meetings Act violation. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, this item was not 25 reposted. This item that we're talking about was posted 97 1 early in the week. 2 MR. GORDON: That's right. That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you just -- you just 4 made a statement that's not true, sir. You said we 5 posted right after the hearing. 6 MR. GORDON: I'm sorry. Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did not post it then. 8 MR. GORDON: When Miss Stebbins and I 9 disagreed about the September -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're not talking 11 about that. 12 JUDGE KELLY: We're talking about drainage 13 requirements, Mr. Gordon. 14 MR. GORDON: I understand that. I 15 understand that. What I'm getting at is -- is -- today, 16 the Court has a second item up. Commissioner Harris, I 17 understand, we're taking the matter up at 12:30? I 18 would argue there's also an Open Meetings Act violation 19 with that. We'll touch on that at 12:30. 20 The issues for today is, does the Court need 21 to clarify an Order that contains a variance that was 22 voided? And the answer is no, the Court doesn't need to 23 clarify anything because the variance that was granted 24 which increased the amount of drainage, I think the word 25 reduction is little bit confusing here. 98 1 The subdivision regulations and the 2 manufactured home regulations are different. And 3 they're different for a reason. Because general 4 residential home construction is different from 5 manufactured home construction. And the Commissioners' 6 Court that preceded y'all, in twenty -- excuse me, in 7 2000 that adopted these manufactured home regulations, 8 did so with a reason. And the reason is to comply with 9 both State and Federal law. And those laws require a 10 slightly different analysis for a manufactured home 11 community than a regular subdivision. And the 12 Commissioners' Court from 2000 adopted a regulation that 13 said drainage has to be reduced for a manufactured home 14 community. 15 Now, it may be that this Court decides to 16 retake that issue up and put a different policy in 17 place. Commissioner Letz mentioned that y'all got sued 18 back in 2000, I'm not really familiar with that but fact 19 of the matter is, all we're here today about is the 20 application of the rules. And we're asking the 21 Commissioners' Court to make this particular developer 22 follow the same rules. As to the items for number 17, 23 I think we're going to ask the Court to take no action 24 because no action is necessary. Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. And the 99 1 next speaker is Glenna Heavin -- Heaven. Did I say it 2 right? 3 MS. HEAVIN: Yes. Glenna Heavin. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Heavin. Okay. 5 MS. HEAVIN: I'm not -- my name is Glenna 6 Heavin. My address is 189 Henderson Branch Road in 7 Ingram, Texas. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 9 MS. HEAVIN: First and foremost, you don't 10 know how much I appreciate this opportunity to actually 11 address you on this matter. Because until now I didn't 12 have that opportunity. I'm not -- I'm a little bit 13 confused on the limitations of my comments now that we 14 are under agenda item number 17 as opposed to 25, and 15 would appreciate a little bit of clarification as to 16 keeping my comments to clarification only. 17 I've been a resident of Kerr County for 18 18 years, the last 14 of which I have owned the property 19 that is adjacent to this Meadowbrook development. As 20 illustrated on -- and you may have gotten something 21 passed out to you -- of the development plan and all 22 around the -- all around the development plan, I've 23 highlighted in yellow for you, which is my property. As 24 you can see -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: We'll pass those out. Pass 100 1 those out. 2 MS. HEAVIN: It's got -- yeah, this one with 3 the yellow on the plat with pictures attached to it. I 4 made one for each of you. There's some photographs 5 attached to it. There it is. Everybody have it? 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And the yellow is 7 what? 8 MS. HEAVIN: The yellow is my property. 9 Okay. So as you can see, from Highway 27, along the 10 entire eastern perimeter of the development and turning 11 along the entire southern perimeter of the development 12 is the property that I own. 41.3 acres, including a 13 half a mile of Johnson Creek frontage. Living there 14 that -- for the last 14 years, needless to say I've 15 witnessed a lot. 16 If you look at photographs labeled Number 1, 17 which is attached. That is an overview of the 18 development taken from my back porch. I've witnessed 19 firsthand on multiple occasions, the raging power of 20 water from both the runoff and from Johnson Creek 21 flooding on the property during heavy rains. 22 Now, the lower half, and I -- when I say the 23 lower half I'm referring to this southern half of this 24 development, closest to the river, was formerly a crop 25 field that was grown each year. And the absolute lowest 101 1 area along that entire stretch of Johnson Creek river 2 valley. And so every time that we had a heavy rain or 3 storm that field became a virtual lake. It actually 4 inadvertently served as a retention pond for that 5 property, where the runoff would sit for days and days 6 and days before it slowly evaporated. It didn't run off 7 anywhere. 8 Now, since the time -- since the development 9 began, the only substantial rain we've had was in the 10 late May, as you know. And I was able to witness what 11 happened during -- during that period. 12 JUDGE KELLY: MS. HEAVIN, that's time. I 13 hate to interrupt but your three minutes is up. And 14 really, this is not really pertaining to what the 15 drainage requirements should be. 16 MS. HEAVIN: Okay. 17 JUDGE KELLY: So we appreciate your -- 18 you're obviously affected by this development. 19 MS. HEAVIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So we're really talking about 21 what the drainage requirements ought to be. 22 MS. HEAVIN: I shouldn't have spoke yet. I 23 had people yielding their minutes. I'm so sorry. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Next is Valentina 25 Solis. 102 1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: She was going to give her 2 minutes to Glenna Heavin. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. That's fine. 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And we're going to wait. 5 MR. GORDON: Yeah, I think -- I think that 6 to comply with the Court's preference on item 17 versus 7 25, I'm certainly advising my clients that -- to hold 8 back on some of the items for discussion. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Ricardo Solis. 10 MR. SOLIS: I was also going to waive my 11 minutes, sir, to Glenna Heavin. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Sandra Fisher. 13 MS. FISHER: I would like to yield my 14 minutes to Melanie Ellsworth. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Next one is Sue Walton. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. I'll take -- I'll 17 take a minute. I'll save the rest for 12:30. 18 JUDGE KELLY: You are? 19 MS. ELLSWORTH: Melanie Ellsworth, and I 20 live at 230 Dowling Road. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 22 MS. ELLSWORTH: Just because we're talking 23 about the drainage, I mean that -- we're clarifying the 24 drainage. And basically, no disrespect to Charlie 25 Hastings, but he came in and said I made a mistake, I 103 1 should -- it should have been this. It wasn't this. If 2 you want a good visual of what's been going on since his 3 mistake is this is a new river. Because the development 4 that's over half finished, he just said, has pushed a 5 lot of dirt next to Glenna Heavin's property, and it's 6 all flooding down into the creek now. And it just -- I 7 mean, I am irate. And I'm not the only one. 8 I'm representing a collective of a lot of 9 people that live on the creek. And I mean, if the plan 10 was wrong, and you designed a plan that was wrong, you 11 know, start over. Start over and make them put in -- a 12 new plan in and do it right. This is Johnson Creek. 13 They proposed 200, eventually over 200 mobile homes, 14 this close to the creek. I mean -- oh, I passed out 15 this paper. If you want to share it with them. But I 16 mean -- I can wait. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, I see it. We've got it. 18 MS. ELLSWORTH: So it's your responsibility 19 to -- to -- about the variance to protect the public 20 health of Kerr County. It's on there and I circled it. 21 And that's your job, that's what we elected you to do. 22 And it just makes me livid that you won't -- 23 you know, that -- and -- and I'm not mad at you because 24 I know you didn't know. You got this put in front of 25 you and -- and didn't realize what it was happening. 104 1 But I mean -- and the other minutes that were brought up 2 about -- I mean, I can save the septic issue for 12:30. 3 But I'm just saying, if you're talking about 4 a mistake that was made in the drainage, that's what 5 we're trying to clarify, and oh, by the way, that was a 6 mistake, it should be this, wipe the project and make 7 them start over and make them put in a plan from the 8 beginning that follows the law. That's -- I mean -- 9 I'll tell you the rest at 12:30. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Stewart Walker. 12 MR. WALKER: And I'm going to yield my 13 minutes to Glenna Heavin. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 15 MR. WALKER: And Carole Walker is signed up, 16 too, and that's my wife. And she's going to yield her 17 minutes to Glenna Heavin. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Got that. And the next 19 on the list is Claudette Beard. 20 MS. BEARD: I yield my minutes to Melanie 21 Ellsworth. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Charles Gregory. 23 MR. GREGORY: I think that I only represent 24 Section 1.25. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir, you did. As a 105 1 matter of fact you are correct. We'll save that. 2 And then the last one I have in this stack 3 is Melanie -- Penelope Foster. 4 MS. FOSTER: I yield my minutes to Glenna -- 5 Melanie Ellsworth. 6 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'm Melanie Ellsworth. I'll 7 speak at 12:30. I've got a lot more to say. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So those are all the 9 public input that we have on this topic 1.17. And I 10 think I've heard from the Commissioners that they 11 believe we should take no action on this at this time. 12 Is that right? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we will pass. And 16 move on to the next Agenda item, which is 1.18. It's a 17 public hearing. The County Clerk Archive Plan for 18 Fiscal Year 2021. 19 Anyone here to speak on behalf of the County 20 Clerk Archive Plan for Fiscal Year 2021? There being 21 no one, that meeting is adjourned. 22 I'll move on to 1.19 consider, discuss and 23 take appropriate action to approve and adopt the County 24 Clerk's Annual Record Archival Plan as presented by 25 Ms. Dowdy. 106 1 MS. DOWDY: I believe it's in the packets 2 there. Excuse me. It's standard procedure. 3 JUDGE KELLY: You do this every year, don't 4 you? 5 MS. DOWDY: Correct. This year on page 6 three of the Archive Plan you'll see the projects that 7 are remaining thus far. I do have notebooks I need to 8 get an estimate on, but over the next four years -- one, 9 two, three, four -- excuse me, five years we're looking 10 at about 75,000 just to archive the rest of the books. 11 And then there's more to come. 12 But anyway, for this coming fiscal year, I'd 13 like to start to complete project 5, which is Preserve 14 Old Records, and that will cost -- the quote I received 15 was $16,097.50. And this archive fund, I've requested 16 the amount of $16,100.00 and this is on page four. 17 We have Deputy Clerk salaries that we can 18 appropriate to this fund. FICA expense, group 19 insurance, retirement, workers' comp -- I'm sorry. I'm 20 going a little fast. I'm sorry. Basic life. And the 21 total amount for this fund for fiscal year 2020 and 22 2021, will total $152,386.00. County Clerk -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's next -- that's 24 next year? 25 MS. DOWDY: Correct. This upcoming fiscal 107 1 year. Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 3 MS. DOWDY: County Clerk requests the 4 Commissioners' Court approve and accept this archival 5 plan as presented. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So you're presenting a 7 plan that's next year's budget? 8 MS. DOWDY: Yes. This plan has to be 9 presented in the public hearing which was just held -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 11 MS. DOWDY: -- and the Commissioners' Court 12 needs to adopt. We just primarily need to be in 13 agreement about what we're going to use this money for. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So is this in the -- in 15 the budget that we're looking at right now? 16 MS. DOWDY: The current budget for 2020, 17 2021. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it's in there. 19 JUDGE KELLY: But it's a dedicated fund? 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 21 MS. DOWDY: Correct. And in order to use 22 it, I have to ask permission. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I gotcha. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it really doesn't 25 change anything? 108 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Just -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 5 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 6 approve the County Clerk's Annual Record Archival Plan 7 as presented. Any other discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Jackie, on 9 the $16,907.50 for Project Five, is that included in the 10 152 or is that -- 11 MS. DOWDY: It is. It's the top of that 12 graph. 13 JUDGE KELLY: It's the sixteen one. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you rounded up 15 sixteen one. Okay. 16 MS. DOWDY: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That was it. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Those in favor raise 19 your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 20 1.19(sic) consider, discuss and take 21 appropriate action to approve and adopt -- oh, that's 22 it -- appropriate action to approve the contract between 23 Data Preservation Services and the Kerr County Clerk, 24 and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 25 MS. DOWDY: This is the plan that we just 109 1 presented, project Five. So the estimate is $16,097.50. 2 And I just request that -- oh. I did present it to the 3 County Attorney. She's made no suggestions for changes, 4 so I request the Court adopt as presented and authorize 5 the County Judge to sign same. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So move. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. Okay. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 10 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 11 approve the contract between Data Preservation Services 12 and Kerr County. Any other discussion? Those in favor 13 raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 14 MS. DOWDY: Thank you. 15 JUDGE KELLY: 1.21 consider, discuss and 16 take appropriate action for the County Clerk's fee 17 schedule for fiscal year 2020-2021, to be effective 18 September 1, 2020 through September 30 of 2021. I think 19 that -- October 1, 2020 to September 30, 2020, is that 20 right? 21 MS. DOWDY: Well, it's based on the ending 22 -- the ending period for this current year -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: Uh-huh. 24 MS. DOWDY: -- and so there's no overlap. 25 The next -- so in the next -- next year it'll be -- 110 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Right. Right. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So the fiscal year is 3 October 1 to September 30? 4 MS. DOWDY: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE KELLY: We understand. 7 MS. DOWDY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be October 1. 9 MS. DOWDY: Well, there will be some gap, 10 though. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm talking about -- 12 MS. DOWDY: Because of last -- because of 13 the last year's it ends on a weird date. It doesn't end 14 properly. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. So it -- 16 MS. DOWDY: Because of the way it had been 17 presented two years ago. So anyway. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MS. DOWDY: So as presented. There is no 20 changes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No changes? 22 MS. DOWDY: Yeah. And everything's updated 23 according to the Office of Court Administration and 24 Criminal -- 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 111 1 MS. DOWDY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 4 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 5 approve the Clerk's fee schedule for fiscal year 2021. 6 Any other debate or discussion? Those in favor raise 7 your hand. Five zero, unanimous. 8 MS. DOWDY: Thank you. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Are we going to talk about the 10 Tax Anticipation Note or pass that and talk with the 11 CIP? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put it on just to talk 13 to the Judge briefly because we needed to have this 14 discussion in open court and we can -- Judge, I think 15 the idea is to have the CIP come and present in open 16 court. 17 JUDGE KELLY: The CIP meets -- is meeting 18 this Wednesday and they're going to meet for -- every 19 Wednesday -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE KELLY: -- until they come before the 22 Court. And I forget the day. Is it late August, early 23 September? I know they're planning to come. And what 24 they want to do is come in and bring a detailed report 25 to the Court about what their recommendations are and 112 1 discuss how we can finance it with these Tax 2 Anticipation Notes. 3 But generally speaking, the Tax Anticipation 4 Note is a means that we can finance for up to seven 5 years. We talked to Dusty Traylor with, oh, what is it, 6 RBC? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: RBC Capital. 8 JUDGE KELLY: RBC Capital, and he's 9 estimating that we can probably get interest rates 10 somewhere in the one and a quarter percent interest. 11 And this would be just, kind of, a preview. This would 12 be to buy the building down the street for the Public 13 Defender's Office and some other properties that we're 14 looking at, and to be able to get those so that we'll 15 have them, they'll be owned by the County when we take 16 the bond issue to the people so they can see what we're 17 trying to do on this project. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, my 19 only concern is that, and I've mentioned this at the 20 last meeting or meeting before but maybe it wasn't real 21 clear, is that I don't see how we can negotiate, which 22 we've authorized the Judge to do, until we know how 23 we're paying for it. It goes back to the same thing. 24 And we -- and that will come clearer under 25 Executive Session. So I think that, you know, the 113 1 sooner we can get the committee in here to report, the 2 better, because I think we're at a standstill right now. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I know they're meeting 4 the 29th, the 3rd, the 10th, the 17th. So I think 5 they're probably planning to be here towards the end of 6 August with this, with their recommendations, and 7 they're preparing a written presentation with 8 substantial details. Anything else? 9 Then let's move on to Item 1.23 consider, 10 discuss and take appropriate action to approve the Witt 11 O-Brien's, LLC Emergency Purchasing Agreement for grant 12 consulting services for the Coronavirus Relief Fund 13 Grant. Is Callie going to come in on that? 14 Come on in. We don't bite. 15 MS. GARGANO: Hello. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Please introduce yourself. 17 MS. GARGANO: Hi, I'm Callie Gargano. 18 THE REPORTER: Excuse me, I couldn't hear 19 you. 20 MS. GARGANO: I'm Callie Gargano. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You can take that off. 22 MS. GARGANO: Okay. 23 JUDGE KELLY: While you're speaking you can. 24 MS. GARGANO: Absolutely. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And speak up so that we can 114 1 hear you. 2 MS. GARGANO: Absolutely. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 4 MS. GARGANO: I want to discuss today the 5 Witt O-Brien's contract. So recently we obtained the 6 coronavirus relief fund grant to help with our 7 expenditures that pertain to COVID-19 that helps with 8 PPE, medical expenses and payroll that pertains to 9 COVID-19. It was in the amount of about $1.4 million. 10 And all these expenses have to be incurred by December 11 30th, 2020. We would like to hire Witt O-Brien's as a 12 grant consultant to kind of help us brainstorm some 13 ideas to kind of help us figure out how we can kind of 14 spend these funds. And the maximum amount of the 15 contract would be about $50,000.00. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Which -- it's paid for out of 17 the funds of -- the grant funds that have been paid for? 18 MS. GARGANO: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And so what's -- 20 what -- $50,000.00 and what's the potential money that 21 we can get? 22 MS. GARGANO: It's $1.4 million. That's the 23 most we can get from this grant. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: We don't have $1.4 million 115 1 worth of expenses -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: -- but these people are 4 professionals. The City's using them. They're being 5 used nationwide. And these are experts to help us be 6 able to identify projects and expenses that would 7 qualify to be applied under this grant. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 10 we approve the contract with Witt O-Brien's, LLC, for 11 the Emergency Purchasing Agreement for grant consulting 12 services for coronavirus relief -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- fund grant. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 16 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 17 obtain retaining Witt O-Brien's for our consulting 18 services for the COVID -- coronavirus relief fund grant. 19 Any other discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For clarification, the 21 contract amount is not to exceed 50,000. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Not to exceed 50,000? 23 MS. GARGANO: Not to exceed. Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You know, we discussed 25 this a couple weeks ago, didn't we? 116 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 JUDGE KELLY: This is -- they just got the 3 contract and the County Attorney's reviewed it. 4 MS. SHELTON: And so has TDEM. 5 MS. GARGANO: Yes. The County Attorney, 6 yes, has reviewed it and approved it. 7 JUDGE KELLY: The Texas Department of 8 Emergency Management, TDEM. 9 MS. GARGANO: Yes. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 11 Those in favor raise your hand. Opposed? 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: (Raised his hand.) 13 JUDGE KELLY: Four one. 14 Item 1.24 consider, discuss and take 15 appropriate action concerning property on Southway Drive 16 currently used by the County Road & Bridge. We're going 17 to talk about that in Executive Session? 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Some of it might need 19 to be or may -- the property is -- is for sale. And it 20 hadn't been in the past. And so Kelly looked up 21 everything in the tax records and what it's appraised 22 for and so on, so if we need to talk about that. I 23 talked to the representatives at the church and they are 24 motivated to selling and at the appraised value. So -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 117 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So we thought -- Kelly 2 thought it was a good idea. If you want to put some -- 3 add some input, Kelly, about where this would be a 4 benefit for the County. And we've used it for years and 5 it's been no trouble at all so -- 6 MS. HOFFER: This is one of the agreements 7 for the storage material that we currently have material 8 that's out there. We also store equipment. It's not 9 far from Ranchero Road. It's a good location for that 10 Kerrville South area. It's 3.37 acres, it's ideal. 11 We've used it longer than I've been here. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We've got -- have 13 spots around the County. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And the price is really 15 right so. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We'll discuss that in 18 Executive Session. 19 Approval Agenda. 2.1 pay the bills. 20 MRS. JOHNSON: Good morning. For Kerr 21 County we have $525.00 -- I'm sorry. $525,436.81. For 22 the Airport, $3,320.94. Adult Probation, $802.41. 23 Fund 45, District Clerk Fees, $3,361.00. Fund 78, 24 County Clerk Fees, $291.34. And Fund 95, 198th DA 25 Forfeiture Fund, $191.92. 118 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move we pay the 2 bills. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 5 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 6 pay the bills as presented. Any discussion? Those in 7 favor raise your hand. Five zero, unanimous. 8 Budget Amendments. 9 MR. ROBLES: Good morning. Yes, we have 10 four today. They're all line item transfers, the first 11 three, but they're within their own departments. One is 12 for non-departmental, 216th District Court and Sheriff's 13 Department. The fourth one is between two different 14 departments nondepartmental -- excuse me, AG Extension 15 Services for group insurance. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 19 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 20 approve the budget amendments as presented. Any further 21 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 22 five zero. 23 2.3 late bills. 24 MS. JOHNSON: There are none. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 2.4 Auditor 119 1 Reports. 2 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. We're asking that you 3 accept the report on the audit, internal audit from the 4 Tax Assessor Collector's office. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 8 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 9 approve the audit report for the tax office. Any other 10 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 11 five zero. 12 The monthly reports. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. For June 2020, 14 Environmental Health OSSF monthly activity report, 15 Director Ashli Badders. Animal Control Services monthly 16 report, Director Reagan Givens. Fines, judgments, and 17 jury fees collected, J.P. 4, Bill Ragsdale, County 18 Treasurer's monthly report, Tracey Soldan, and Kerr 19 County investment report for quarterly -- for quarter 20 ending June 30th, 2020, County Treasurer, Tracey Soldan. 21 I move for approval. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 24 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 25 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any further 120 1 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Five zero, 2 unanimous. 3 Court Orders. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I wasn't here. 5 So I -- I mean, I haven't looked at them. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I haven't looked at 7 them. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, do we want to pass on 9 that until -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Let's do them at 1:30. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Let's pass on them for 12:30 12 and we can approve them. 13 Okay. Information agenda. Status reports 14 from Department Heads. None? 15 3.2. Status reports from Elected Officials. 16 3.3. Status reports from Liaison 17 Commissioners. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got a couple things. 19 Librarian Laura Bechtel is moving to a different 20 location, so there's another librarian to be appointed 21 by the City. Laura did a great job over there. So and 22 we need to applaud Laura and what she's done. 23 The second thing is, the Airport Board has 24 been working with TxDOT Aviation on the 10 additional 25 T-hangars, which we have looked at, reviewed, and we had 121 1 money set aside for that. Good news. The bad news is, 2 the estimated cost of those things have gone from 3 900,000 to 1.6 million, because the way TxDOT Aviation 4 has chosen to run the potential project. So Airport 5 Board is going to come back to us, they need to, and we 6 may just walk away from that whole thing. It's 7 ridiculous what TxDOT Aviation is doing on how they're 8 -- how they're planning, doing engineering. I think 9 engineering has increased to $300,000. So anyway, just 10 adds up on that. So our 10 T-hangars are in jeopardy of 11 having to be paid for by 90-10 grant. I've been 12 looking. So our ten percent portion has gone up a lot, 13 so -- 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Could we -- could we 15 reduce the -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We could but, you know, 17 it's the percentage of -- it's the way they're -- the 18 way they're contracting for this thing and doing the 19 engineering, it's totally different than the way we did 20 previous T-hangars. So anyway. Just adds up. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, just a comment. 23 And this goes to item, whatever it is, we will not be 24 having an economic development update. Mr. Salinas is 25 in South Texas, flooded at the moment. We'll do it -- 122 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll do that next week. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Anything other to report? 4 Okay. With that, then, we're going to go into an 5 Executive Session. We have several things to talk 6 about. But I think we're going to talk about pending 7 litigation. And we're going to talk about an update -- 8 well, I guess not an update on economic development now. 9 And then we're going to discuss our contractual 10 relationship with local realtors and the projects that 11 we're looking at possibly purchasing. And talk about 12 the possible purchase of real estate. That's what we're 13 talking about in Executive Session. It is now 11:12. 14 And we're going to take a five minute break. We'll come 15 back at 11:17 in Executive Session. 16 (Recess.) 17 (Executive Session.) 18 JUDGE KELLY: Court come back to order. It 19 is still Monday, July the 27th, 2020. It's about 12:30 20 in the afternoon. And we have an addendum to the agenda 21 plus one item we passed on this morning so I'll call 22 them both at the same time. 23 And the first one is item 1.17, and we need 24 some clarification for the drainage requirement for the 25 Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured Housing 123 1 Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1. 2 And the item 1.25 is consider, discuss and 3 take appropriate action to finance a variance to the 4 Manufactured Housing Rental Community regulations 5 stormwater detention calculation requirements for the 6 Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured Housing 7 Rental Community Development Plan, Phase 1. 8 Everybody know what we're going to talk 9 about? Okay. Good. I had some more people turn in 10 applications. A form that tells us you want to address 11 us and make some statements to us. So if you want to 12 defer your time, I've had several people ask about that. 13 That's perfectly permissible, just let me know who you 14 want to defer it to. And then we'll add that three 15 minutes on to that person. 16 Just a little disclaimer as we begin this, I 17 have a heavy juvenile docket at 1:30 and the County 18 Attorney, Ms. Stebbins, and I will be stepping out to 19 take care of that. Commissioner Letz, who's a senior 20 member of Commissioners' Court, will then preside over 21 this, and you all can convene the hearings and I'll come 22 back in if you're still going after I finish up my 23 juvenile. 24 And so, with that I'm going to call these in 25 the order that -- that I have them here in the stack. 124 1 Okay. Roger Gordon is the first one back on this one, 2 too. 3 MR. GORDON: Thank you, Judge Kelly. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We've already got your name 5 and everything so don't worry about that. 6 MR. GORDON: Thank you, sir. Commissioners. 7 I'd just like to point out here that the purpose of the 8 variance process is to provide the Commissioners' Court 9 with an opportunity to hear from the property owners or 10 the property owners' agent as to why the literal 11 interpretation of the rules cannot apply to that 12 particular property. 13 It is the responsibility of the property 14 owner or his agent to demonstrate to the Court that 15 there are special circumstances or conditions affecting 16 their land such that the strict applications of these 17 rules and regulations would deprive the applicant of 18 their reasonable use of that land. 19 I went back and read the September 2019 20 Commissioners' Court minutes and I was surprised because 21 the applicant didn't present a case. The applicant or 22 his agent didn't convince this Court of any special 23 circumstances that applied. It was the County's 24 Engineer, getting paid with taxpayer dollars, up there 25 arguing on behalf of the applicant. 125 1 And I would ask the Court today to require 2 the property owner to do the exact same thing that any 3 other property owner would have to do if they came in 4 seeking a variance from the County's rules and 5 regulations. Prove up your case. Demonstrate that 6 there's something more than a monetary hardship to 7 justify the Court waiving its own rules and regulations. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You can take your mask 9 off if you want to. 10 MR. GORDON: Thank you. Sorry. I 11 appreciate that. 12 JUDGE KELLY: By the way, the Governor's 13 Order does allow you to remove your mask when speaking. 14 MR. GORDON: Thank you kindly. 15 It may be that the Court ultimately decides 16 to grant this variance. It may be that the Court 17 ultimately decides to waive these rules or change these 18 rules. I'd simply ask that y'all follow your own 19 process and procedures. Kerr County is a law and order 20 County. The law was established by this Commissioners' 21 Court in 2000 saying that if you're going to build a 22 mobile home community, you're going to have to reduce 23 the amount of runoff that flows from that property. 24 The order -- the gentlemen that are sitting 25 right here in front of us, a law has been set, y'all are 126 1 the order. I would ask this Commissioners' Court to 2 please require the applicant to comply with the 3 requirements under the variance regulations. 4 And I will note as a final point, and I 5 think this agenda -- well, it probably wasn't posted in 6 compliance with the Open Meeting Act. The fact of the 7 matter is that this meeting started at 9:00 a.m. And it 8 was 12:30 on Friday when this item was posted -- 9 (Commissioner Belew present.) 10 -- tacking on an agenda item on the back of 11 the meeting that started at 9:00 a.m. I don't want to 12 be back before Judge Pattillo on this issue. I think 13 this is a matter this Commissioners' Court and members 14 of the public can resolve between themselves. 15 JUDGE KELLY: You want us to stop and go 16 home? 17 MR. GORDON: I do. I think it's appropriate 18 and I think y'all should come back in a couple weeks and 19 hear this when members of the public have the 20 opportunity to participate. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we're going to -- we're 22 going to set it for -- we wanted to give the people that 23 are here an opportunity to be heard. They've gone to a 24 lot of trouble to be here and we appreciate that. And I 25 know what you want to do. 127 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 2 MR. GORDON: And I -- I suspect just from 3 talking to these folks that if the Court's preference 4 today is to table this issue for a couple weeks, they'll 5 be happy to come back in a couple weeks and share their 6 piece with y'all. I don't think anybody's going to 7 complain if you say you're not going to get a chance to 8 speak today because we're going to push this down the 9 road a couple of weeks and let you guys come back. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I know Commissioner 11 Harris has -- has something he wants to say. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I tried to get 13 it delayed this morning and to stall and couldn't do it 14 until 12:30, and so that's my wish again. I'm going to 15 make a motion to push this until next Monday, and that 16 way it can be advertised in the paper, full 17 transparency, everybody up and down Johnson Creek that 18 wants to hear this or have a say can show up. And that 19 will give everybody plenty of notice and we can go from 20 there. So that's my motion. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm going to second the 22 motion, but here's what I want everybody to understand. 23 I've got -- I've got to handle this juvenile docket. 24 It's already set. Check with our Court Coordinator and 25 I think the only things we have are the routine things 128 1 with regard to the State of COVID-19, the emergency 2 disaster order that's entered. And then this would be 3 the next item on the agenda and I think we would have 4 the entire morning to do that, so -- any objection about 5 the motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a comment. You 7 mentioned put a notice in the paper, I object to that 8 because -- 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I need to 10 rephrase that, Commissioner. I -- unless the -- we're 11 not going to put a notice, but it will be documented in 12 the paper by -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I prefer for the 14 reporter to do it. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Not us. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I need to rephrase 19 that. Glad you caught that. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The West Kerr Current 21 is what he's talking about. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You bet. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we don't even 24 have to have a motion, we can just pass on it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If he wants, we can do a 129 1 motion. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. And we'll put 3 it on next Monday's agenda. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Right. 5 JUDGE KELLY: We knew what you were going to 6 do. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And I know I want to second it 9 to make sure that we get a discussion on it. 10 What I think Mr. Gordon is asking us to do 11 is to stop right now. 12 MR. GORDON: I think it would be appropriate 13 to give this matter a week. I said -- when I stood up 14 earlier, measure twice and cut once. The County has 15 already incurred significant cost as a result of what 16 happened back in September. Giving it a week isn't 17 going to change what's happened on the ground that much. 18 If the Court ultimately is going to grant this variance 19 next week, and the Court is going to do that, I think 20 it's important to give the members of the public an 21 opportunity to participate. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But I would like 23 anybody that doesn't think they can be here next Monday 24 and signed up, open mic, get up and say their spill. If 25 y'all just as soon come back next week that's fine, too. 130 1 So -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So does anyone want to 3 speak? 4 MR. GREGORY: I may or may not be able to be 5 here next week so I will. Judge Kelly, Commissioners, 6 my name is Charles Gregory. I'm property owner on 7 Johnson Creek about a quarter mile downstream from the 8 Meadowbrook Development. The agenda item before us as 9 we've been discussing is to consider an application. 10 And I'm going to backtrack to this morning's discussion. 11 I was surprised at how unclear all of you 12 are about what the existing regulations are. And it's 13 laid out very clearly in the minutes of the September 14 meeting. All you got to do is go read those. And it's 15 laid out. It is not the State minimum. The existing 16 regulations require a reduction in the runoff. And the 17 variance is about -- about allowing the runoff to be 18 greater and -- and up to the State minimum. This 19 project is on Johnson Creek, one of the three major 20 tributaries of the Guadalupe, about ten miles downstream 21 from its headwaters. 22 Earlier, perhaps wiser court, put in effect 23 stronger stormwater regulations than the State requires. 24 Maybe because they felt that this unique river system 25 here deserves a higher level of protection. And wisely 131 1 so. 2 But today, this Court wants to consider 3 waiving those tighter restriction. And I ask why? Why 4 would you even consider it? What reason can you 5 possibly have? Just like -- that item was approved at 6 the September meeting. We know that the Judge 7 considered that notice inadequate and -- and nullified 8 it. 9 I ask again, why do you want to make it 10 easier for a developer to put such a project as this in 11 place? What reason can there possibly be? I'd like to 12 hear an answer. And I think all these people would. I 13 petition you to correct the hasty action of last 14 September's meeting and deny it. Deny the variance. 15 Very simple. Thank you. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And Mr. Gregory, I'm happy to 17 give you my answer why. 18 MR. GREGORY: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Because I don't believe it's 20 legal to require people to retain more water than what 21 the State law requires. And the State Law says that 22 we're not supposed to have any impoundment or diversion 23 of water other than in its natural condition. And so 24 when you go to zero, that is what Texas Water Code says. 25 And so I appreciate what the earlier court has done. I 132 1 don't think that's enforceable. 2 MR. GREGORY: That's not my department. I 3 know that the regulations require a reduction in the 4 runoff. If the regulations are invalid, I don't know. 5 That's a legal issue. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and the law that I'm 7 talking about, I don't know if you're an attorney or 8 not, but it would be an unconstitutional taking without 9 due process by law. To take somebody's property rights 10 and say you're going to have to hold back this 20 11 percent additional water when they own the land and 12 they're entitled to discharge the natural water as is. 13 That's why we went to zero. 14 MR. GREGORY: That's a lawyer's issue. 15 JUDGE KELLY: So that in the development of 16 this land, no more water should -- should drain off of 17 that tract than did in its natural state before any 18 development whatsoever. 19 MR. GREGORY: I understand all of that. But 20 -- I understand that the existing County regulations for 21 such a project require a reduction. If that's -- if 22 that's an invalid law, that's -- that's illegal. 23 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. But -- but you 24 asked me a question and I want to give you a very good 25 answer is that we -- we as a court, collectively, we 133 1 feel like that if we can keep the drainage the way it is 2 in its natural state and does not impact that creek or 3 adjacent landowners, then that's the best we can do. 4 MR. GREGORY: Again, I say that's a legal 5 issue. But Mr. Gordon can address it better than I can. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you very much. 7 MR. GREGORY: Thank you, sir. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Who else wants to -- 9 Ms. Ellsworth, right? 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yes. So you -- the goal was 11 to keep it in the natural state? 12 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 13 MS. ELLSWORTH: Not -- not make a 14 difference? 15 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: So the fact that it's come 17 in and made a difference, would that be a concern to 18 you? 19 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. It would be a concern. 20 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. So we have proof that 21 that's happened. Because there's -- the land has been 22 sloped so that all the water is now dumping onto 23 somebody else's property. And I've heard -- I read 24 earlier the Commissioners' meeting when that was brought 25 up, one of you guys -- I'll have to look it up -- said 134 1 it's illegal, you guys know that, that somebody can't 2 slope their own property and dump all the water on 3 somebody else. 4 JUDGE KELLY: That was probably me. 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. Well, that's 6 happened. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I'm the son of a civil 8 engineer. I learned it the hard way. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. Well, that's 10 happened. So whatever, you know, within the legal 11 realms that -- that has passed, now we've got a problem. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and I -- and I will tell 13 you, the developer is not here. And I think Mr. Gordon 14 brought that to everyone's attention. But I do know 15 that the Developer and their representative have agreed 16 with us that this needs to be a zero tolerance, no 17 additional drain water come off that property than what 18 the statute said. 19 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. And I have one other 20 issue, just as a concerned citizen reading over old 21 minutes. It was brought up this cluster versus not. Do 22 you understand the difference between cluster and 23 community systems? 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the septic systems? 25 MS. ELLSWORTH: Uh-huh. What's the 135 1 difference with that? Does anybody -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're talking about a 3 system where everybody goes into one or groups of 4 systems? 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. So you -- are you 6 familiar with Castlecomb? 7 JUDGE KELLY: We are. 8 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And I think the difference 10 that you are looking for is ownership -- 11 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. 12 JUDGE KELLY: -- versus rental. 13 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. So are you saying if 14 a toilet is flushed on somebody that leases the land 15 versus somebody that owns the land, is there any 16 difference in that amount of septic that comes out? Is 17 there? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The issue is are -- 19 those rules are dictated by the State and not by this 20 Court. 21 MS. ELLSWORTH: Exactly. But the EPA 22 guidelines are a community or cluster is -- is more -- 23 is a group. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We follow it generally 25 and we do follow Chapter 285, you know -- 136 1 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- under the State code. 3 MS. ELLSWORTH: Kerr County says it's its 4 own tract. But there's -- I think there's a higher law. 5 And we'll find out. But the EPA puts community and 6 cluster systems in the same boat and call it -- you 7 know, sewage is sewage. If you -- if you own or lease 8 the land, it -- it -- let's, you know, call it what it 9 is. 10 If you're going to get around a loophole in 11 the land saying we've got 200 homes that are dumping 12 this sewage in this area, and that doesn't count because 13 they're leasing the land, it doesn't make sense. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I'm saying is that 15 we adopt -- we enforce State Law. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't go against 18 State Law. 19 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I think you're 21 presuming something. I'm hearing something in there 22 that's not being said. 23 MS. ELLSWORTH: What? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which is, you're 25 talking about failure, or are you talking about runoff? 137 1 What are you talking about? 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'm talking about -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What are you 4 addressing? 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: -- the amount of -- yes. I 6 mean, if you -- if -- if already we have an unusual 7 large amount of runoff because of what has happened, 8 isn't that going to affect the sewage? 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you know, there's 10 different kinds of systems and there's -- the cluster is 11 different than the community. So all of that has to be 12 taken into account. If you have an aerobic system 13 versus a drain field, all of those things change it. So 14 it's not just a question of whether all of them fall 15 under EPA rules, but whether there's -- nobody wants any 16 kind of leakage or seepage or failure. 17 MS. ELLSWORTH: Uh-huh. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nobody wants that. So 19 they all have to be tested and approved and so on. So 20 what -- what I think I'm hearing you talk about is the 21 fear of failure of those system, not being kept up and 22 so on. 23 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yeah, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which we can't really 25 address. 138 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think she's talking 2 about the stormwater drainage, added to that, the septic 3 system drainage. 4 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yeah, it's -- it's -- 5 water's water. I mean -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. It's all flowing 7 into the creek. 8 MS. ELLSWORTH: Exactly. Everything. And I 9 passed that out earlier. I don't know if you've flipped 10 through those pages. But I drew a picture of the slope 11 of the land, and the magnitude of this. And, I mean, if 12 it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, it's a 13 duck. I mean, if it looks like a lot of sewage on -- 14 within -- I mean, I know you have to keep a law -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, what do the 16 neighbors all have? 17 MS. ELLSWORTH: Well the neighbors have -- 18 they have septic. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. Do they have drain 20 fields? Do they have aerobics? I mean -- 21 MS. ELLSWORTH: They have drain -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- is it a mixed bag? 23 MS. ELLSWORTH: They have drain fields but 24 you're talking about one house on 40 acres. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that's going to -- 139 1 you know, everybody contributes to whatever it is. 2 MR. May I -- may I speak to that? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, sir. 4 MR. GREGORY: I'm a quarter mile downstream. 5 I built my house about 12 years ago. I was required to 6 put in an aerobic system. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Aerobic. Right. 8 MR. GREGORY: I'm higher up on the hill. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 10 MR. GREGORY: This big subdivision started 11 with 102 units, lower on the hill, closer to the creek. 12 They get to do leach field. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Uh-huh. 14 MR. GREGORY: The question is why? 15 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'll just say Castlecomb is 16 30 homes on 9,000 gallon septic. This is 25 homes on 17 5,000. 25 homes on 5,000. 25 homes on 5,000. We're 18 talking five, ten, fifteen, twenty. And then the 19 Phase 2 is another -- we're talking 40,000 gallons of 20 septic drain field within 75 feet of the creek. And if 21 it's the law, it the law. But I'm just saying let's -- 22 let's make sure. I mean, in five years you want a 23 lawsuit that we've got E. coli in the creek and ruining 24 Kerrville? I don't. I get in the creek everyday. I've 25 got grandkids that swim in it. I -- 140 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you're -- 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: -- I don't want the creek 3 ruined. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand your fear, 5 but you can't base the acts of the Court, this Court or 6 any Court, on somebody's fear of what might happen, what 7 maybe is going to happen. If it's within what the law 8 says, and it is, then that's as far as we can go. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This Court is here to 11 implement the rules of the State. 12 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And we're not supposed 14 to go and write extra laws for the State. 15 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you understand 17 that? 18 MS. ELLSWORTH: I get that but I -- and I'll 19 just be blunt. This went up in the dark of night. Not 20 any of us knew this was happening and we kind of dug 21 back and found out. You know what? It got approved and 22 the address got left off. Well, what do you say? You 23 know, this Court -- the Judge ruled in our favor on 24 Friday to say these people were not legally -- they 25 didn't have a legal right to do this, because they 141 1 didn't put the address. And that's what the Open 2 Records Act is. So you can -- you can sense my 3 nervousness over are we really doing things right? 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, there's no 5 conspiracy with this Court and any developer, if that's 6 what you're suggesting. 7 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. It's just suspect -- 8 I don't know -- I don't -- I don't know -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I can promise you that. 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'm not pointing fingers at 11 anybody. Okay. 12 (Talking over) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't even know the 14 developer. 15 JUDGE KELLY: What's suspect? 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: What? 17 JUDGE KELLY: What's suspect? 18 MS. ELLSWORTH: What's suspect? The suspect 19 is the fact that we -- we -- this was not an open 20 record. Nobody knew this was going on. And this -- 21 that -- I mean, it's -- its been voted on Friday that 22 this was void. The variance was void. 23 So if you're building a building and your 24 foundation just got swept out from under you because it 25 was void, what part of void do you not understand? It 142 1 should -- they should have to start over and file new 2 permits and -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question -- 4 you're saying that we did this secretly, what you just 5 said. February 24th, the agenda item said, approve the 6 Meadowbrook Retirement Manufactured Housing Rental 7 Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located at State 8 Highway 27 and Hoot Owl Hollow. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: No, that wasn't -- that 10 wasn't what was -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's -- that's 12 when we approved it. The variance is what the notice 13 was about. We approved it -- it was plenty of notice 14 that there was a -- they were developing a -- approved 15 this development. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: When we went before the 17 Judge, the -- what was -- what was presented to the 18 Judge on Friday that he agreed with us is the agenda 19 item. They had seven agenda items and all seven of them 20 had it, you know, out five acres on this land -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- 22 MS. ELLSWORTH: The Meadowbrook was the only 23 one that didn't have -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ma'am. I'm not 25 disagreeing. That is -- we're not talking about that; 143 1 we're talking about the one in February that when we 2 approved it. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Two different things. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's two different 5 things. And it was very specific on that agenda item 6 that we approved the development plan. I agree the 7 variance, it was vague. And we -- 8 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- threw it out. 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- but the -- 12 don't say -- I mean what you just said was that we did 13 this and we approved this development in the dark of 14 night. Well, that's not true. We posted it on an 15 agenda with the date. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: If the variance was void, is 17 the plan void? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talk to the Judge. I 19 can't answer that. I would say no. 20 MS. ELLSWORTH: So -- so we've got a 21 contractor going in and saying I need to slope the land 22 a certain way. Yeah, you can slope the land this way. 23 Go ahead. Then you approve a plan to go ahead and -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't talk about 25 sloping the land. 144 1 MS. ELLSWORTH: That's what the variance is. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. It was about 3 runoff. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was about drainage. 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Which you're talking 7 about, you know, dirt work -- 8 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- and we're not into 10 the dirt work. We just want to know how much runoff 11 is -- 12 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- going into the 14 creek. 15 MS. ELLSWORTH: The fact that they moved a 16 bunch of dirt on -- on their property, and you said it 17 in your minutes, it's against the law to move -- to 18 slope your property in a way that you can't dump a lot 19 of water on your neighbors. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't change the 22 flow of the water. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You can't change the 24 exit point onto the neighbor's property. 25 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. 145 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: And that's happened. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 4 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. So what I'm asking 5 is, if the -- if the variance has now been saying, you 6 know, we gave them this variance on how -- if that's 7 void now, don't -- do you -- isn't everything else 8 that's built on top of that need to start over? The 9 Judge said on Friday, let's do a do-over. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the variance. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: On the variance. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: On the variance. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. But not 14 necessarily everything. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not the development. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: On the plan? 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: See, there's -- there's 18 -- and the State legislature changed the rules on how 19 you file and what happens and how many days is required 20 and so on. And if all that's done right, then it's done 21 right. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We're trying to get the 23 variance back to what we want it to be, which is zero 24 additional water on any neighbor. And no additional 25 water into that creek other than what would flow 146 1 naturally. 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: So what are you going to do 3 now to get the -- are you going to tell this developer 4 to move the -- the land? 5 JUDGE KELLY: No. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: What is -- there are 7 three things here. One's where the water goes from one 8 land -- one property to the other. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: That's happened. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That shouldn't change. 11 MS. ELLSWORTH: That's -- that's changed. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. That shouldn't 13 change. Then the amount of water is a different thing. 14 That's the variance. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So hopefully it will be 17 zero on what it was naturally. And then the third thing 18 is, the septic system. And what that does to add to 19 additional -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: And that's not before the 21 Court today. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- flow, and that's not 23 before the Court today. 24 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's -- so 147 1 there's three separate things. 2 JUDGE KELLY: But -- but we talk about this. 3 If we get it to zero, they're probably going to have to 4 put some kind of detention facility on their property -- 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: Uh-huh. 6 JUDGE KELLY: -- to hold that water so that 7 it doesn't get down to Johnson Creek and holds 8 everything in place. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: Great. Great. 10 THE COURT: Which would be the way it would 11 be before they did any developing. 12 MS. ELLSWORTH: Great. So they've got to 13 resubmit the plan because it's going to have to change 14 somewhat. They're going to have to do something 15 different, right? 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They'll have to do 17 something different but -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: No. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- they don't have to 20 resubmit anything. 21 JUDGE KELLY: They don't have to resubmit 22 anything. 23 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The variance changes, 25 which is what -- 148 1 JUDGE KELLY: We're trying to protect it so 2 that nobody takes anymore water than you would if the 3 land was still in its natural condition. That was the 4 variance that we intended. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you don't want to 6 go beyond that, where you're capturing more than should 7 naturally be running off there. Because then the creek 8 runs slower and everything else and you don't want to 9 get to that point. 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Some people have 12 expressed the desire for that and that's -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Then you've got -- 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that's going too 15 far. Yeah, and you're using up their land. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yeah. And I mean at the end 17 of the day, I'm -- I'm about Johnson Creek. And I'll 18 just -- I'll just -- I live in the country. I expect 19 mobile homes to go in. I do not have a problem with the 20 development. I'm happy -- you know, I'm happy they'll 21 bring more homes to the area. If it was in the middle 22 of nowhere, not on Johnson Creek, I'd be all over it. 23 The fact that it's exactly on Johnson Creek 24 and this -- Kerr County has spent 63 million getting 25 Center Point off septic. We've spent -- you've got 149 1 issues in Ingram getting them off septic. It doesn't 2 make sense to put in 40,000 gallons of septic on Johnson 3 Creek. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have that 5 choice. 6 JUDGE KELLY: But Ms. Ellsworth, regardless 7 of where the property is situated, on a hilltop or on a 8 creek, we cannot tell that landowner how to use that 9 property. If they want to use that property, they have 10 the right to use it. We can do certain regulatory 11 things, such as we want to make sure that they comply 12 with the drainage requirements, which means that 13 nobody's going to flood their neighbor. 14 MS. ELLSWORTH: Which has happened. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now that becomes a 17 civil issue, if I'm not mistaken. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it does. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, it does. 20 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And as -- as far as the 22 septic, which is not before the Court today, that's 23 something we'll take up when we get there. 24 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. Great. Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 150 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Who else do we have that wants 3 to speak to the Court? 4 MR. QUINN: Pat Quinn, Hoot Owl Hollow, 5 Ingram. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 7 MR. QUINN: It was my understanding from 8 Mr. Bruce Oehler, when he was Commissioner of this 9 Court, that I could not take my 60 some-odd acres and 10 subdivide it into anything less than 12 acres to build a 11 house. Now that's what he told me. I have not read the 12 rules or regulations. I do know a neighbor down the 13 creek had to come before this Court and get permission 14 from this Court in order to sell, I believe, a five or 15 six acre parcel to somebody out of their property. 16 Again now, here we have homes going on half 17 acres properties. Now, if they're for lease instead of 18 for sale, but it sounds like to me what we want to do is 19 make Kerr County like Kendall County, down around 20 Boerne, where everybody's living on top of each other, 21 and that's not why I moved to Kerr County in 1995. I 22 moved here to be in the country. 23 Now again, I cannot understand how I can't 24 subdivide my property if I wanted to, which I don't, but 25 this guy comes in and buys up a parcel, and all of a 151 1 sudden has houses sitting every half acre. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can answer your 3 question. The legislature passed rules that allows it. 4 MR. QUINN: Allows you or allows him? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Allows -- we have no 6 control over that. Allows the landowner to do it. 7 JUDGE KELLY: The landowner. 8 MR. QUINN: In other words, the State of 9 Texas knows more about Kerr County than this Court does. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They think they do. 11 They're the ones that passed the legislation that 12 allowed for special rules for manufactured rental homes 13 community. 14 MR. QUINN: Did any of the representatives 15 of this area vote for said legislation, or did they 16 oppose it. Does anyone know? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, at the time -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: Look it up. 19 MR. QUINN: I'll -- I'll look it up. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the current ones are 21 no longer in office, the ones that were in office at 22 that time. This was done prior to Andy Murr and prior 23 to Dawn Buckingham being our representatives. 24 MR. QUINN: So in other words, like I say, 25 Austin knows more than this Court does. 152 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I don't like the 2 rules that they do. And this one, I think is 3 contradictory but -- 4 MR. QUINN: Well -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's the -- 6 MR. QUINN: -- why doesn't this Court stand 7 up and say one time -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We can't. 10 MR. QUINN: -- just tell the State of Texas 11 one time, no. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Because we took an oath to 13 uphold the Constitution of the United States and the 14 State of Texas. That's why. 15 MR. QUINN: Even if they take the 16 Constitution and shred it up and throw it away, y'all 17 still gotta do whatever they say out of Austin? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we don't -- if we 19 don't -- if it's in State Law and we don't do it, all 20 they do is go to the Judge and the Judge is going to do 21 it anyway. Because we can't stop -- 22 MR. QUINN: Let me bring up -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the administrative -- 24 MR. QUINN: -- the first point I was but the 25 second point. Again, I know the Trump administration 153 1 has changed some of the rulings of the Obama 2 administration. But again, Bruce Oehler told me that 3 the Johnson Creek had been determined by the U.S. Coast 4 Guard to be a navigable waterway -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: It is. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is. 7 MR. QUINN: -- which makes it subject to the 8 waters of the United States rulings by the U.S. 9 Environmental Protection Agency. And I'm wondering if 10 anybody has gotten permission from the U.S. EPA to put 11 any additional waters in Johnson Creek on this 12 development? Thank you. 13 JUDGE KELLY: We still have a motion pending 14 to come back on Monday to do this. But I wanted to give 15 everybody a chance if you wanted to talk to us. If you 16 want to come talk to us, come talk to us. 17 MR. FRAZIER: I'll give you 30 seconds. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You bet. 19 JUDGE KELLY: You just want to get that 20 bandana off. 21 MR. FRAZIER: Yeah, it's killing me. 22 (Laughter.) 23 MR. FRAZIER: And I see five guys that 24 really understand what's going on. You talk about zero 25 runoff. You talk about neighbors' properties plus the 154 1 creek. This will be a long, long process with 2 litigation down the road. Because every one of you know 3 as well as I do when you pack ground, you pack a 4 habitat, you make it flat, even if it's at a slope, you 5 pack it down, you know what happens. It's real simple. 6 So civil engineers will be hired and all that kind of 7 crap and this is what's going to happen. And we'll be 8 in this frickin' court for years. 9 JUDGE KELLY: You won't be in this one. 10 MR. FRAZIER: Well, yeah, it'll be civil. 11 Okay, I understand that. 12 JUDGE KELLY: But you're talking about 13 impervious fill. When you put down those hard surfaces 14 and water runs off it faster. That goes into the 15 calculations too. I don't do this. My dad was a civil 16 engineer and he taught me enough to be dangerous. But 17 that goes into the calculation. You can talk to any 18 civil engineer and that's what they'll tell you. 19 Exactly how much that drained off that before you 20 compacted it and -- and what has to be done to make it a 21 zero drain. 22 MR. FRAZIER: I'm sure he'll have a civil 23 engineer do that. 24 JUDGE KELLY: He does. 25 MR. FRAZIER: I'm sure he does. But I 155 1 can -- I can tell you, it'll be more than zero and there 2 will be civil engineers on the opposing side involved 3 when this is over with. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can you state your name 5 for the record? 6 THE REPORTER: Thank you. 7 MR. FRAZIER: Robert Frazier. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you, Robert. 9 MR. FRAZIER: Thank you. 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I was wondering about the 11 motion that's on the floor and if we are actually going 12 to address this issue today or table this for next week 13 before I -- I have anything else to say? 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well, then we'll call 15 the question. Anymore debate about whether or not we 16 put this off until next week? Okay. So the motion's 17 been made by Commissioner Harris, and I seconded it to 18 adjourn today and reconvene on Monday, August 3rd at 19 9 o'clock in the morning. Those in favor raise your 20 hand. Unanimous. We want to listen to you. 21 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'll be back. 22 JUDGE KELLY: And the only items that are 23 going to be ahead of you on this agenda, because I do 24 get to write the agenda, will be our status report on 25 how we're doing with COVID in the County, whether or not 156 1 we're going to terminate the disaster order, which we're 2 not. I don't think we're going to do that. And then 3 it'll be y'all. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And those ought to take 5 five minutes. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. By 9:15 y'all 7 will be on. 8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Thank you so much. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Court's adjourned. 10 * * * * * * 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 157 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Special Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 14th day of August, A.D. 10 2020. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2021 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25