1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Special Session 5 Monday, August 3, 2020 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioners' Comments. 4 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 7 action regarding update, facility use and 5 other matters related to COVID-19. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action to extend the Local State of 7 Disaster Due to a Public Health and Economic Emergency Proclamation that was 8 signed by Judge Kelly on March 24, 2020, and "extended until terminated by 9 order of the Kerr County Commissioners' Court" on March 30, 2020. 10 1.3 Receive, consider and discuss public input 18 11 related to the Meadowbrook Retirement Community Manufactured Housing Rental 12 Community Development Plan, Phase 1, located at State Highway 27 and Hoot 13 Owl Hollow. 14 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 124 action to rescind Court Order No. 38171 15 in order to reset a public hearing for August 17, 2020 at 10:00 a.m., to be held 16 in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 700 Main Street, 17 Kerrville, Texas, for the purpose of presenting the Kerr County District Court 18 Records and Archive Plan for Fiscal Year 2020-2021. 19 2.1 Pay Bills. 125 20 2.2 Budget Amendments. 125 21 2.3 Late Bills. 126 22 2.6 Court Orders. 126 23 3.1 Status reports from Department Heads. 127 24 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Adjournment. 139 4 *** Reporter's Certificate. 140 5 * * * * * * 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 JUDGE KELLY: (Gavel Bang) Good morning. 2 It is Monday, August the 3rd, 2020, 9 o'clock in the 3 morning, and the Kerr County Commissioners' Court is now 4 in session. If anybody wants to call in for comments, 5 the telephone number is (830) 792-6161. It's sitting 6 right here on the bench. 7 The first part of the agenda is for public 8 input. This is an opportunity for the public to address 9 the Court. Tell us anything that you want to talk to us 10 about. I will limit your time to three minutes. The -- 11 the thing about the input is if it -- if you want to 12 talk to us about something that's on the agenda, we ask 13 that you wait until that agenda item is called. So is 14 there anyone that would like to address the Court at 15 this time? Okay. There being none, then we'll go to 16 Commissioners' Comments. Two. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, okay. We had 18 some excitement in Precinct 2. The good news is we had 19 an inch and three-quarter rain. I think a lot of people 20 got a lot of rain. We lifted the burn ban as a result 21 of that on Saturday morning. 22 I think we had a tornado go through the area 23 around the airport on Peterson Farm Road. There were 24 seven power poles down, 18 hours without electricity in 25 the local area. Damages to the airport. I think a 5 1 hangar -- hangar door and some jets messed around. I 2 think the hangar doors damaged a couple of aircraft in 3 Brinkman Hangar. So lots of weather excitement. And 4 other that that, things are good. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Good. Three. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had about an inch of 7 rain, which is not as much as other areas, but we're 8 happy to get it so I'm not going to complain about that. 9 The -- a little further on the airport, the damage to 10 the aircraft is pretty significant. One of the aircraft 11 anyway was really damaged quite bad. I don't know a 12 whole lot about aircraft from the standpoint of repairs, 13 but evidently it's a big deal looking at the damage of 14 the aircraft. But anyway, all that's working through 15 our insurance. 16 The other thing is, you know, I'm bringing 17 it up but it's kind of, I don't know, it's a sad thing 18 in my mind. Karen told me this morning about a friend 19 of hers that called or e-mailed her and it was somebody 20 that was at a local convenience store, basically around 21 534. And it was a lady wearing a Trump hat of some 22 sort, and was basically assaulted by three young people 23 in there for wearing the hat, and then her gentleman got 24 out to try to help her and then he was beat up some. 25 And the people at the store tried to help. And then 6 1 the -- you know -- I know I saw the Sheriff nodding his 2 head so I know that they were aware of it. Called the 3 police, I don't think they -- I don't know if they 4 called them or not. But it's really sad. You hear 5 about this in other big urban areas primarily. But the 6 fact that it happened in Kerrville really hits too close 7 to home and it's -- it's just a sad thing in my mind. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, it is. Wow. 9 That's terrible. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I suspect 11 out-of-county. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I hope so and I 13 hope they have some consequences for it. I was out of 14 town most of the weekend. And I got a pleasant 15 surprise, I only got three-quarters of an inch but I'm 16 tickled to death with that. And I haven't got any 17 reports for much of the other part of the County out 18 west because we were out of town most of it. So that's 19 about all I got. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. One. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We got two and a half 22 inches of rain. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, wow. Yeah, we had 24 a tornado. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'm just telling 7 1 you that's what we got. So that was at our house. And 2 had a lot of rain. It rained real hard for -- for quite 3 awhile. And I actually burned one of my brush piles. 4 And then we had, of course, the sad news is 5 we had another death from the drunk driver hitting the 6 motorcyclists. And then they came -- I don't know if 7 any of you saw them. There was a bunch of them that 8 came down Highway 16 on a tribute ride and stopped there 9 at the site. So they were assisted by Kerrville Police 10 Department, Sheriff's Department, and the Highway 11 Patrol. And so, please remember those families in our 12 prayers and the ones that are still hospitalized. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. 15 Very good. 16 Then let's move on to the Consideration 17 Agenda. Item 1.1 has been 1.1 now for months. And this 18 is a report on our COVID-19. 19 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Judge. 20 JUDGE KELLY: For those of you that approach 21 and can speak from the podium, you are permitted to take 22 your mask off just like Dub just did. 23 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Judge. Good 24 morning, Commissioners. Commissioner Letz, glad to have 25 you back. 8 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad to be here. 2 MR. THOMAS: We're just going to -- after 3 our conversation with you, Judge, last week, we're just 4 going to go through the numbers this morning a little 5 bit. I'm going to stick with just primarily local 6 numbers. National and state numbers I don't think 7 really matter much anymore. I think it's more about us 8 locally and how we're going to manage that. 9 For COVID-19 data, total statistics by 10 Peterson Regional Medical Center as of Friday five 11 o'clock, there was 3,767. We've had a total of 383 12 COVID-positive patients. Seven were hospitalized. Our 13 active cases are 34. Recovered cases are 331 and we've 14 had six fatalities. The last one was notified as of 15 last week. I don't have any information on their ages 16 or anything of that nature, just that we are up to six. 17 There's a graph in there. It's kind of -- 18 it's been put in there since May the 6th. And you can 19 see about mid to the latter part of June, we started 20 getting the increase. This is kind of crammed in there, 21 so it's not really -- you can't really tell the spike as 22 much as you could the people with a bigger graph. But 23 mid June we had a spike and I think right now, just from 24 looking at Peterson's numbers the last -- over the last 25 week, what they submitted to me, I think we're kind of 9 1 trying to level off a little bit. Hopefully, we'll 2 level off and then we'll start to see a decline. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Dub, what are the 4 Series 1, 2 and 3? 5 MR. THOMAS: Well, that's if you're -- 6 Series 1 is actually if you're using the graphing on 7 Microsoft Word, that's -- that's what you use for 8 putting in your data. So Series 1 is just basically the 9 blue line there. If I was going to put in something 10 else, like recoveries, that would be Series 2. You'd 11 see a line for that. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we just ignore that? 13 MR. THOMAS: Yes. Just ignore that. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 15 MR. THOMAS: Our transmission methods 16 basically are still the same, and we're going to see 17 more of Texas Health Trace investigations in the 18 datasheet that I get from DSHS. So at some point, we're 19 not going to be getting anymore information about 20 whether it was close contact, travel related or 21 whatever. 22 As far as Kerr County goes, it's pretty much 23 just community spread and close contact at this point. 24 Age data, less than one, we're still at zero. One to 25 nine is six. Ten to 19 years of age is 15. 41 years -- 10 1 41 people between the years of 20 and 29. 42 from 30 to 2 39. 40 to 49 is 34. And 50 to 59 is 34. 60 to 64, 22. 3 And then it starts to drop back off for above 65 years 4 old, we get 10. 70 to 74 is 11. 75 to 79 is 80, plus 5 we've started to see an increase there pretty recently. 6 We're up to 10 individuals at this time. 7 JUDGE KELLY: And what's note worthy on 8 those statistics is those are cases from PRMC only, 9 right? 10 MR. THOMAS: That's from Peterson Regional 11 only. Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and the actual numbers 13 of cases are not presented? 14 MR. THOMAS: That's correct. 15 JUDGE KELLY: The people following that? 16 MR. THOMAS: That's the actual numbers of -- 17 yeah, we've had -- so we've had 26 people -- or 15 18 people that were between the ages of 10 and 19 and so 19 forth and so on. So you can see it starts to rise the 20 older you get, up to where we get to from 20 to 29. So 21 from about 20 to 64 is where the majority of our cases 22 are at right now. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It says 18 percent over 24 65 is what that amounts to. 25 MR. THOMAS: Uh-huh. As far as testing 11 1 goes, we're going to have free COVID testing events. 2 It's going to be this Wednesday from 8:00 until 4:00 at 3 the Hill Country Youth Event Center. Curative, 4 Incorporated will be here to conduct those tests and it 5 will be the swab, the check swab. Folks are not 6 required to have an appointment or a doctor's 7 prescription or anything like that. They can just show 8 up and come in. I'll be meeting with those folks 9 sometime today or tomorrow and we'll talk about how 10 we're going to set up. But it is from 8:00 to 4:00 and 11 -- on Wednesday, and I'll be doing a Code Red tomorrow 12 throughout the County to remind folks. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Dub, on national news, 14 they're encouraging people not to be tested just to be 15 tested, but if you have symptoms. Is that the case 16 here? 17 MR. THOMAS: I would say yes. Unless you're 18 displaying some of those symptoms or you feel sick or 19 ill, you've lost your taste or smell, headache -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Some symptoms 21 before you get tested. 22 MR. THOMAS: Some symptoms that we've been 23 advertising then I would come down and get tested. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What's the cost for 25 tests? 12 1 MR. THOMAS: This is free. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, somebody's paying 3 for it. 4 MR. THOMAS: Well -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: We're paying for it. 6 MR. THOMAS: We're paying for it. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, but what's the 8 cost of it? Per test? 9 MR. THOMAS: I have no earthly idea. I can 10 probably try to find out for you. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it comes off the 12 money tree in the back? Is that how we're paying for 13 it? 14 MR. THOMAS: Sure. You know it's growing. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, okay. One more 16 question about the testing. Now, there's -- there's 17 talk that there's a coronavirus test and a COVID test, a 18 specific -- because there's a lot of coronaviruses. 19 MR. THOMAS: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And there's been some 21 confusion, I don't know if it's misinformation or if 22 it's correct. But are these tests specifically for 23 COVID-19? 24 MR. THOMAS: Yes. These are supposed to be 25 COVID-19 tests for active viruses. Not the antibody 13 1 test. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment just more 4 to the public. When it says loss of taste, it's really 5 not what -- this is my past experience; not what it is. 6 It's a change in taste. You can taste things, but it 7 tastes weird. Or it doesn't taste like -- you know, for 8 me it only happened one time with one deal for me but I 9 ate pizza and it just didn't taste like pizza normally 10 tastes. 11 MR. THOMAS: So does it change your taste -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a change in taste. 13 Yeah. 14 MR. THOMAS: Do sweets change or -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It just tasted 16 funny. And in Karen's situation, she had ordered sweet 17 tea and she tasted it and she couldn't tell if it was 18 sweet or not sweet. So it's just really a change. She 19 could taste it was tea, she just couldn't taste the 20 sweetness. For me it was different. So it's a -- it's 21 an abnormal taste more than a loss of taste. And other 22 people I've talked to that's kind of the way it is. But 23 it's definitely a taste difference that's noticeable. 24 MR. THOMAS: Well, that's good to know. 25 You're the first person that I've talked to that's 14 1 actually had it so -- and can testify what it -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a pretty strong 3 testimony. You're around the County a lot and that's 4 the first person you've talked to that -- 5 MR. THOMAS: Well, social distancing, 6 Commissioner. Social distancing. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, that's good. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other 9 thing that -- I think Commissioner Moser touched about 10 who should get tested. You know, symptoms, yes. Like, 11 you know, if you have them. 12 But other thing is, if you happen to know 13 that you've been around somebody close then that's a 14 good reason to get tested. You know, and they never did 15 any question as to how we got it so I'm glad you're 16 going to quit carrying that information because I don't 17 think it's necessarily relevant. But I can probably 18 figure out where I got it. It was from another 19 contractor from Houston. And you start looking at the 20 dates and percentages and when you probably got it and 21 all that. And that person I was around for probably 22 less than 30 seconds. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Wow. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Really? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But they -- so I 15 1 think a lot of the -- I think, you know, that they tell 2 you -- the CDC says 15 minutes and within six feet. You 3 know, I don't think that's real accurate for Karen or I. 4 I think if you're around them and for whatever reason 5 you're unlucky and you happen to get enough of it in you 6 to infect you. But being around someone I think is 7 another reason to get tested. 8 MR. THOMAS: So if you're symptomatic or 9 you've been in close contact with somebody you believe 10 may have had it or you know they've had it, then -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. THOMAS: -- I would go get tested. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But not just so you can 14 tell your neighbors and friends you've had the test. 15 Because you take the test today, you get exposed 16 tomorrow, I mean you can't -- you can't just constantly 17 keep doing that. It should really matter if -- 18 MR. THOMAS: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- you're going to take 20 the test. 21 MR. THOMAS: And we're going to continue to 22 try and have the testing here as much as possible and I 23 can put out when we -- when I see from the DSHS 24 Region 8 update that there's going to be testing here 25 locally or close by, then we're posting that as well. 16 1 Fredericksburg, Boerne. I had a lady e-mail me last 2 week or two weeks ago who had a son that needed surgery 3 and he had to have a test real quick. She drove all the 4 way to Cotulla to get the test. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Wow. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Of all places. 7 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. She -- she needed it 8 done pretty quick. So the testing's going on, we're 9 just posting where you can get it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing 11 that's interesting is the antibody test and this is -- 12 came from doctors; not from me. The doctors that I've 13 talked to about all this is that the antibody seems to 14 last two to three months and that's about it. And there 15 are definite places in Kendall County, according to the 16 doctor, that said that they -- their clinic have had 17 people get it twice. And it was about a three month 18 period between. So -- and the antibody test only is 19 accurate, they say, for two to three months. So the 20 antibodies definitely drop off pretty quick. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, we're go to have a 22 blood drive tomorrow at the Youth Event Center, supposed 23 to happen, unless it's been called off. 24 MR. THOMAS: I wasn't aware of it. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. I'm just 17 1 wondering if they're going to do any of that -- that's 2 actually -- they're looking for people with the antibody 3 to give blood. 4 MR. THOMAS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So much I'm just 6 curious if you knew anything about that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good to know if 8 it is there. Because they have -- I was asked if I 9 would consider donating because -- if I do have a lot of 10 antibodies right now and I said I would and then I 11 called and they said I had to go to San Antonio and I 12 said, well, I'm not going to San Antonio to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's probably 14 somebody in San Antonio who can do it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 MR. THOMAS: Who's sponsoring the -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The South Texas Blood 18 folks. Blood Tissue Center. 19 MR. THOMAS: Okay. Good. Any questions, 20 sir? 21 JUDGE KELLY: Anything else for Dub? Okay. 22 We're done. 23 MR. THOMAS: All right. Thank you. Y'all 24 have a good week. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. Second item on the 18 1 agenda is the same as it is every Monday these days, and 2 that is any discussion regarding terminating the State 3 of Disaster Order that I entered back in March. 4 There being no discussion on that, we'll go 5 to Item 1.3 which is to receive, consider and discuss 6 public input related to the Meadowbrook Retirement 7 Community Manufactured Housing Rental Community 8 Development Plan, Phase 1, located at State Highway 27 9 and Hoot Owl Hollow, Precinct 4. 10 Okay. Let's see. Let's start off with -- I 11 think I want to call on the County Attorney. Last week 12 I was asked the question about why we couldn't enforce 13 our existing regulations regarding manufactured house -- 14 housing rental community -- you know, I guess MRHC? 15 Something like that. MHRC, I think it is. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Manufactured Home Rental 17 Community. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And I gave an off-the-cuff 19 response, but we did go back and talk to our County 20 Attorney, who also talked to our -- our lawyer in Austin 21 to make sure that we were right on this. And I was 22 going to ask Jason Sorensen, if he would, to give us a 23 report on exactly why we can't enforce that over 24 20-year-old regulation. 25 MR. SORENSEN: Sure thing, Judge. Am I 19 1 miked over here or do I need to -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: The mike's right here. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This one picks up most 4 of it. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Jason, you might take 6 that mask off for while you're speaking. 7 MR. SORENSEN: All right. Okay. So there's 8 a lot of information, so I want to have this computer up 9 here so that y'all can see why we think what we think 10 and sort of what we're talking about. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 12 MR. SORENSEN: So first things first. 13 Meadowbrook is a manufactured home rental community. 14 And the statute treats that differently than 15 subdivisions. So let's go to Local Government Code 232. 16 Now, there's a law library somewhere in this 17 building, I think it's over there across from the 18 District Clerk. So honestly these days I just use 19 Google because it's quicker and the State's got all 20 these laws up there on their website. So if you just 21 Google Local Government Code 232, that very first result 22 is this thing right here. 23 Now, this is the whole chapter and there's a 24 lot of information in here, but for now we're just 25 concerned about 232.007. This is the section that 20 1 regulates mobile home communities. And that's a 2 specific legal term. You can see what it is here, that 3 it's not really relevant today -- oh, what did I do? 4 There we go. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jason, we can't read 6 that, if you think we can. 7 MR. SORENSEN: Oh really? 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. 9 MR. SORENSEN: Oh. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is -- I've got it 11 here, what you sent us. 12 MR. SORENSEN: Okay. Good. And -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Everybody got this, 14 right? The e-mail from Jason? 15 MR. SORENSEN: I -- I'm trying to -- so the 16 folks that are following along on YouTube or if they 17 want to look this up for themselves, this will be in the 18 minutes of the meeting. So they'll be on the County's 19 website for perpetuity if you all want to look this 20 stuff up. 21 But so that we can kind of follow along, 22 Section B, right there, says a manufactured home rental 23 community is not a subdivision. And so, those sections 24 you see we're quite a bit of ways into the statute here 25 and we're just now talking about this. This section 21 1 just says everything that came before doesn't apply to 2 manufactured homes. 3 So Subsection B is what gives the County 4 Commissioners the authority to regulate these parks in 5 the unincorporated area of the County. So we did that. 6 Back in 2000, the County adopted mobile home reg -- I'm 7 going to keep messing that up and, folks, I apologize. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Just call it mobile home 9 parks. We know what we're talking about. 10 MR. SORENSEN: Okay. Adopted regulations 11 for the mobile home parks. And so going back to our 12 handy-dandy Google, if you just Google Kerr County 13 manufactured home regulations, that very -- okay, the 14 second result that comes up are going to be the 15 regulations for the manufactured home community. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, this is rental 17 communities in particular, right? 18 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that has a 20 difference? 21 MR. SORENSEN: That is the core component of 22 the statutory definition. So C is what gives the County 23 the authority to adopt these regulations; however, Sub D 24 says right here, that the Court may not adopt minimum 25 infrastructure standards that are more stringent than it 22 1 requires of subdivisions. And -- and that's what we're 2 going to -- we're going to come back to that in a 3 minute. 4 But if we switch over to the mobile home 5 regulation, the troublemaker right here as far as we're 6 concerned today is this 104(a)(2). And this specific 7 requirement here saying that the post-construction flow 8 has to be 50 percent, 75 percent -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Water flow. 10 MR. SORENSEN: Right. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Storm drainage flow. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 13 MR. SORENSEN: Water that comes off -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 15 MR. SORENSEN: Sure. So if pre-construction 16 it drained 150 cubic feet a second in the two-year 17 floodplain, under this regulation once they're done with 18 construction they would be required to drain 75 cubic 19 feet of water, and that -- that's the issue -- or that's 20 what the mobile homes regs say. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, but to be clear, Jason, 22 the mobile home regs are 20 years old. 23 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. 24 JUDGE KELLY: They're outdated. 25 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. 23 1 JUDGE KELLY: And they're not in compliance 2 with our subdivision rules and they're not in compliance 3 with the State law. 4 MR. SORENSEN: Well, so this part doesn't 5 get treated by the subdivision rules at all unless the 6 mobile home regs specifically adopt the subdivision 7 regs. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now I'm totally 9 confused. You've got -- we're talking about regs that's 10 not in effect anymore? 11 MR. SORENSEN: No. This is -- this is 12 currently in effect. So this was the regulation that 13 Meadowbrook came in -- or rather Mr. Hastings came in 14 asking for the variance. So the regulation as written, 15 and that's currently still on the books, requires the 16 developer to reduce pre -- once they're done building 17 the thing, they have to reduce the amount of water that 18 drains off the property. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: By 50 percent? 20 MR. SORENSEN: In the two-year flood plain 21 it's 50 percent. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Depends on the circumstance. 23 MR. SORENSEN: Exactly. 24 JUDGE KELLY: It's a graduating scale. 25 MR. SORENSEN: Exactly that. 24 1 JUDGE KELLY: But it's more restrictive than 2 the subdivision rules. 3 MR. SORENSEN: And -- and that's just where 4 I was headed, Judge. If we -- if we Google the Kerr 5 County Subdivision Regulations, this is the first thing 6 that comes up. Now, these were adopted in 2007. And 7 these are -- these go a lot longer and they've got -- 8 it's a lot more complicated because they cover a much 9 broader range of topic. So I'm just going to skip over 10 to -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: And while you're doing that, 12 just so the public knows, we are currently in the 13 process of revising the subdivision rules. And almost 14 had it completed before the COVID-19, but get it 15 completed just as soon as we can. 16 MR. SORENSEN: So this whole section, this 17 is 506, these are the subdivision regulations that -- 18 for everything that's a subdivision that isn't a 19 manufactured home rental community, these are the rules 20 they have to follow. 21 Now, I had to check with Charlie to figure 22 out which one of these would apply to Meadowbrook. But 23 according to him, it's this provision here, that would 24 require them to maintain zero net change when they're 25 done construction versus when they started. And that's 25 1 what the variance granted. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Again, just trying to clarify 3 so the people understand. The natural lay of the land, 4 you compute what that drainage would be. 5 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And then if you altered the 7 natural lay of the land, then you have to figure out how 8 much additional drainage is coming. And the landowner 9 then has to accommodate that additional water. 10 MR. SORENSEN: Right. And there's all kinds 11 of engineering -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: And not -- and not let any 13 more than what was under the natural condition flow onto 14 the neighbor's land. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But it can't be more 16 stringent for the mobile home park than for a regular 17 subdivision. 18 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 19 MR. SORENSEN: That's exactly right, 20 Commissioner. And that's the issue that we're in today. 21 Because right now, this subsection D of 232.007 of the 22 Local Government Code says that the mobile home 23 regulation we have right now is unlawful. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 25 MR. SORENSEN: And that's what's on the book 26 1 and that's -- we're in kind of a pickle here and we need 2 to fix it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to comment again 4 on the -- what you just said. 5 MR. SORENSEN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's part of the mobile 7 home rules that -- 8 MR. SORENSEN: Right. This is State Law 9 that says that this is unlawful. And so, as far as this 10 specific provision, I note that we had wanted to fast 11 track this almost last year, and then COVID and some 12 other things just came up. 13 But just so folks are aware, this isn't 14 something that we just kind of came up with because 15 we're in a lawsuit. Like I said, this -- these 16 regulations were adopted back in 2000. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What happens is you 18 start researching them when you're in a lawsuit. 19 MR. SORENSEN: Well, point well taken there, 20 Commissioner. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 22 MR. SORENSEN: So if you go back -- these 23 are -- I should have been narrating that, but if you 24 just Google the Kerr County Commissioners' Court, you 25 can go to our website and we're here in August of 2020, 27 1 and right here on our website are the minutes from our 2 hearing from Monday, November 27th, 2000. Looks like 3 they used to have them in the evenings. I'm glad we 4 don't do that anymore. 5 So if you look at -- so starting on page 55, 6 is back then when they started talking about the mobile 7 home regs. So Judge Henneke, he was the County Judge at 8 the time. And at the time there was apparently a lot of 9 litigation when it came to the width of roads. So I 10 think what happened is that that just kind of got lost 11 in there. 12 So like I said, we're talking about the road 13 business. I'm going cross-eyed now looking at it. All 14 right. See right back here, David Motley, who was the 15 County Attorney at the time, said right here that he 16 wasn't sure that there's a difference and that this was 17 probably more restrictive -- I want to make sure I 18 highlight this so I'm not just putting words into his 19 mouth. He's citing here that he thinks there's an issue 20 with the mobile home regs because they're more 21 restrictive than what they're -- this is 20 years ago -- 22 the County Attorney says that, hey, I don't know that 23 this complies with the statute, and just -- the road 24 litigation took up all the oxygen and the rules ended up 25 getting adopted without addressing that issue. 28 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So Jason, let me see if 2 I can summarize. 3 MR. SORENSEN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Subdivision rules say 5 that water -- stormwater leaving a property cannot be 6 any greater than it was before the development. 7 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. For this size. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Number 1. Okay. Fact 9 Number 1. Fact Number 2, mobile home regulations says 10 you can't be more restrictive than subdivision 11 regulations. 12 MR. SORENSEN: The State law says the mobile 13 home -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. They're not -- I 15 don't want all the numbers, okay. Is that true? 16 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So those two 18 things are true. Says mobile home -- before you develop 19 -- before you develop you got storm drain of certain 20 amount, after you develop the same storm drain cannot be 21 any greater than that. Is that right? 22 MR. SORENSEN: No. The manufactured home 23 regs say you have to reduce. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Says you have to reduce 25 by 50 percent? 29 1 JUDGE KELLY: It depends. 2 MR. SORENSEN: It -- it depends but yeah. 3 If you -- in every case you have to reduce. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You have to reduce? 5 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: For mobile homes? 7 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Huh. 9 MR. SORENSEN: And that's the problem. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that's the problem. 11 MR. SORENSEN: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's illegal. 13 That's -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Is that -- is that 15 still in effect? 16 MR. SORENSEN: It -- it's on the books but 17 as -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes or no? I don't 19 care about books. Is it in effect? 20 MR. SORENSEN: Well, so we would be the 21 entity charged with enforcing that regulation -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So -- 23 MR. SORENSEN: -- and I don't think I could 24 recommend enforcing that regulation. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But is it required to 30 1 enforce it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State Law says it's not. 3 You cannot enforce it because it's stricter than State 4 Law allows. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. I see. Okay. 6 All right. Gotcha. 7 JUDGE KELLY: That's why Charlie came to us 8 to begin with. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And there -- there are 10 a lot of laws we have on the books that we don't 11 enforce. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, I understand. 13 I'm just trying to keep this really simple. 14 MR. SORENSEN: Right. And -- and so that's 15 the issue with the mobile home regs. And there's a 16 process in place for reviewing those. We need to do 17 that at the very least for this 104(a)(2) so we can fix 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So in light of 20 this development today, what do we -- what are we 21 required to enforce? 22 MR. SORENSEN: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or what -- in your 24 judgment, what would your counsel be for us to enforce? 25 MR. SORENSEN: If you're asking counsel, I 31 1 would prefer we save that for executive. If -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, this is a 3 straightforward question. 4 MR. SORENSEN: But so -- the question right 5 now -- so we don't work for the developer. And the 6 developer doesn't work for them. It -- it's really 7 their decision what level of risk -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. From this Court 9 what should we enforce? 10 JUDGE KELLY: As far as I'm concerned, I'm 11 going to enforce the law. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think we should. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And the law says not more 14 restrictive. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Not more restrictive. 16 All right. Got it. That's all -- that's all I was 17 looking for, Judge. Okay. Good. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And he can give all the advice 19 they want, but as -- as an elected official, I'm voting 20 we're going to enforce the law. Period. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Right. Which is 22 not more restrictive than the subdivision. 23 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. So we're -- now 24 all those restrictions that are in there are not -- 25 they're not in compliance with State Law. And so we 32 1 don't try to enforce them. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we -- do we need 3 to -- don't we need to fix this? 4 JUDGE KELLY: We're in the process. Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We are in the process. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So if we fix 7 that -- right now, we can just ignore it. But it really 8 needs to be fixed for future. 9 MR. SORENSEN: Right. And so that's -- 10 that's a good ducktail to the process for approving the 11 development plan. So the County Engineer is the person 12 who's empowered by the statute to approve or reject 13 development. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Our authorized designated 15 representative. 16 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. So when he approves 17 a plan, what he's certifying to the Court is that the 18 plan as submitted meets the minimum State infrastructure 19 standards and it complies with our local regulations. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 21 MR. SORENSEN: That's the reason that he 22 came to get the variance because he was going to have to 23 certify that this plan complies and it didn't with 24 respect to this specific provision. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Gotcha. 33 1 MR. SORENSEN: So for mobile home parks, the 2 engineer had 60 days to take action from the time that 3 the developer submits their plan. He can approve it or 4 he can reject it or he can hold onto it. If he rejects 5 the plan, he has to state in writing what the developer 6 needs to do to fix the property. If he takes no action, 7 after 60 days the plan gets approved automatically, 8 regardless of whether or not it complies with the rules. 9 JUDGE KELLY: By operation of law. 10 MR. SORENSEN: Exactly right. I -- I think 11 there were some divisions that were just sticking these 12 things in the door and forgetting about them, so they 13 put that in there to really put the onus on the County 14 to take action on them. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Jason, did you cover 16 whether -- this was 2000, right -- 17 MR. SORENSEN: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that this happened? 19 Did the State law change after this or were we always in 20 non? 21 MR. SORENSEN: I -- I looked into that and 22 like as Motley pointed out in the meetings, this 23 prohibition on more restrict dates back to '89. And it 24 was last amended in '99. So it was already on the 25 books. I -- I looked into that. 34 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and in fact, the Texas 2 Water Code requires this on all land. I've got a 3 permanent injunction on somebody out in West Kerr County 4 that I put on them back in 2003 because they were 5 diverting more water onto their neighbor than they 6 should have. 7 MR. SORENSEN: Exactly. And there are 8 private causes of action that -- that are distinct from 9 County regulation of what the minimum standards are. 10 And so the County minimum standards are what the 11 engineers have to hold the development plan to. And 12 so -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: The concept has been around 14 from the beginning of time. 15 MR. SORENSEN: Absolutely. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To go to your question, 17 Commissioner Belew, mainly that whole statute of 18 manufactured rental communities was new about '98, '99. 19 It was brand new to the County. We tried -- and I don't 20 recall the details. I don't know how we ended up with 21 those strange calculations. I have no recollection of 22 that. But as I mentioned before, there was litigation. 23 And it was actually not against Kerr County. I misspoke 24 before. I talked to the president of -- the former -- a 25 former president of the association and he said no, it 35 1 was against an active municipality but it impacted our 2 rules and other rules and it changed the roads is where 3 that -- a lot of the lawsuit was on that and it was also 4 on the utilities primarily. No one caught that our 5 drainage was askew. 6 But there was a lot of litigation and that's 7 why we were focused on the roads because when it came to 8 fire trucks and that type of thing was the reason for a 9 lot of the litigation was the issue. And I was reading 10 under some statute that was recently passed as to -- so 11 that municipalities and counties could, you know, get 12 emergency services into these counties. 13 So, you know -- and I'm guessing that all 14 that happened and we just missed it. And then we had -- 15 we do so few of these locally, we should have looked at 16 it in 2003 when we did an update, and 2007, but we 17 didn't. Because we hadn't -- it's just kind of a -- you 18 know, a separate set of rules. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we're doing it in 2020. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we're doing it 21 now. But we -- we should have done it before but it 22 slipped through. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Like most things, you 24 don't think about it until an issue comes up. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And we're in the 36 1 process of looking at them all right now, we just hadn't 2 got to it because everything got put on hold. And -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: But -- but the key phrase as I 4 understand it is, equal to. Equal to pre-construction, 5 post-construction, equal to. And the other phrase is 6 zero percent increase. Those are the phrases most 7 commonly used in the industry. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: In the industry and -- 10 and we can't -- bottom line is we can't be more 11 restrictive than what the State law is. 12 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. And when the plans 13 get submitted to the engineer, he's not asked would he 14 prefer a better plan, if he has other ideas. It's does 15 this plan as submitted -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 17 MR. SORENSEN: -- comply with the minimum 18 standards in the local regulations. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it. 20 MR. SORENSEN: That's the only question he 21 gets asked and that's the only question that gets 22 answered. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And Jason, one last question 24 to you. We asked you to go to our -- see our expert 25 firm in Austin that handles these things for us, the 37 1 Bickerstaff firm. And did -- did you bounce this off 2 them? 3 MR. SORENSEN: So Heather was the one who 4 spoke to Mr. Kimbrough so maybe she can speak to that. 5 But my understanding is he agreed with our assessment. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And my understanding is he's 7 confirmed everything that we've been saying. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: That's right. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Good. So that's -- 10 that's where the County is. 11 MR. SORENSEN: Right. And that's everything 12 drainage related. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I just wanted to say 14 before we hear from everybody that we're not here -- 15 because this is the law, we're not here to call into 16 question the wisdom of the law. That's not our -- we -- 17 we have no -- nothing to say about that. It is the law. 18 MR. SORENSEN: Absolutely correct. And 19 that's -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. I just wanted to 21 throw that out there. 22 MR. SORENSEN: -- and that's a good chance 23 to sort of ducktail into the OSSF part of this because 24 this isn't related to the loss of -- 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Tell -- tell everybody 38 1 what OSSF stands for. 2 MR. SORENSEN: Absolutely. So that -- the 3 term for the septic systems that get installed in these 4 properties. 5 JUDGE KELLY: On-site septic facility, 6 right? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 8 MR. SORENSEN: I -- I will -- the letters 9 change whenever I try to think about it. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: On-site sewage facility. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On-site sewage facility. 12 JUDGE KELLY: OSSF. 13 MR. SORENSEN: Okay. So these are -- so the 14 OSSF or the septic -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now we've gone from 16 stormwater to septic water? 17 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Gotcha. Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Wastewater. Stormwater to 20 wastewater. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: All right. Good 22 enough. Yeah. 23 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. So the septic 24 permitting process works a lot like the development plan 25 process, and is included as one of those components. 39 1 The developer prepares all these materials, they hire 2 surveyors, they hire subcontractors to go out there. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They hire sanitation 4 engineers? 5 MR. SORENSEN: I -- I believe so. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. They do. 7 MR. SORENSEN: And so, they prepare all 8 these materials to submit. And the same question gets 9 asked of Environmental Health is, does this plan meet 10 State minimum standards and does it meet local 11 regulation, and if it does they have to approve the 12 permit. They don't have any discretion. 13 So this is an aerial photo -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Judge, let me 15 comment on that. And our local rules are exactly the 16 same as State Rules for OSSF. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With no variance 19 whatsoever between those two. 20 MR. SORENSEN: Right. And so this is an 21 aerial photo of Meadowbrook with the development's plan 22 overlay to scale, as well as the actual placing of where 23 they put in their drain pipes and they're drain fields. 24 Now, there are four tanks and there are four 25 drain fields, and the Lots are color coded based on 40 1 where they're going to go. So this is 27 right here, 2 and down here is Johnson Creek. And this little green 3 dotted line is what's called the setback line. State 4 Law says you can't have a drain field within 75 feet of 5 the bank of the creek. And that's based on the survey 6 and the State definition of -- I think it's normal water 7 level at the most -- there's a table that says what it 8 is. But it's a standardized definition. They don't 9 just get to pick where the bank is. 10 So this is the setback. And as -- I don't 11 know if y'all can -- it's probably not showing up very 12 clear on here. I can't tell if that's dry or rot, but 13 the setback is based on the bank and this green dotted 14 line follows through the bank of the river. 15 And if you can -- this southwest drain field 16 is the one that's the closest to the creek bank. And 17 the eastern portion of that is 346 feet from the bank of 18 the creek, and the western portion is 332 feet from the 19 bank of the creek. The other two drain fields are 500 20 and 600 that are on the creek side, and then there's one 21 that's on the 27 side, that's well out -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jason, just -- just for 23 the public -- 24 MR. SORENSEN: Yeah? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- drain fields are 41 1 where the sewer water goes back into the ground. 2 MR. SORENSEN: Absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Here. Just -- just -- 4 so independent of how it does it, those purple areas are 5 where the sewer water is going back into the land. 6 MR. SORENSEN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Gotcha. 8 MR. SORENSEN: So -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Some people call them leach 10 fields. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And the closest one is 14 over four times State requirement distance wise. 15 MR. SORENSEN: The closest one is 332 feet, 16 which is 250-some feet further back than it needs to be. 17 And just so everyone knows, these -- these pipes are 18 underground, I think they're about five feet. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: They just go into the 20 ground. 21 MR. SORENSEN: They're deep enough that the 22 water's not supposed to reach the surface, but they're 23 not deep enough that it affects the ground water. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 25 MR. SORENSEN: So if folks do see ponding 42 1 effluent, and you'll know it when you smell it, but if 2 you see ponding effluent, if you see structures going up 3 over those drain fields, if you see trucks driving over 4 there, call Environmental Health. They are the police 5 when it comes to septic violators and we depend on y'all 6 to be our public eyes and ears for -- especially out in 7 the west part of the County. But we prosecute septic 8 violators. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 10 MR. SORENSEN: So if -- if y'all are 11 concerned about that, that's -- we're -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So just in summary, 13 Jason, sanitation engineers, licensed sanitation 14 engineers looked at this, developed a plan, said with 15 those drain fields and that amount of sewer water going 16 into there, it will not percolate up, it will not 17 contaminate ground water. 18 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Gotcha. 20 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. So I've already 21 taken up a good chunk of the Court's time. If there's 22 any other questions, I'm happy to answer those. I can 23 hang tight. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, you might hang 25 tight. 43 1 MR. SORENSEN: All right. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I appreciate -- the 3 public needs to know what -- what the legal issues are. 4 And so what we've got here is some old regulations that 5 we don't enforce because they violate State Law and we 6 have -- haven't corrected them yet or amended it yet. 7 We're in the process of doing those this month and we'll 8 have the subdivision probably done shortly thereafter. 9 And we'll have a whole new set of rules in place here 10 within a very short while. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But right now we're 12 operating under the existing. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Got it. 15 JUDGE KELLY: And the reason for the 16 variance was in order to comply with State Law. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're operating under 19 the existence unless we're in an area that we're not in 20 compliance with State Law, in which case State Law 21 trumps our rules. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Good. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's important 24 because there are some other areas in our subdivision 25 rules that we're not in compliance, such as the -- I 44 1 think the rules say 60 days on subdivisions, and it's 30 2 days now because State Law changed last September. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good. Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- so -- 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It sounds like the 6 mobile park people that have very good lobbyists in 7 Austin. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you know, when -- 9 everybody should be treated the same. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They shouldn't have to 13 have any lobbyists. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Now we don't have an 15 action item on the agenda but we do have a consideration 16 item. So I want to talk to the people that are upstairs 17 listening to this. We're going to start calling people 18 down who want to address the Court. We've got a list 19 here, I think I've got 17 people on this list so far. 20 And we'll bring them down, what, three at a time, 21 Sheriff? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, A lot of them 23 want to yield their minutes to the other person. So if 24 you tell me which one speaks, I'll bring that person 25 down. But if he's one that's just wanting to yield, 45 1 I'll bring the -- 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, then why don't 3 you -- they're watching, you just need to announce the 4 names. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I will here in just a minute. 6 But as far as yielding minutes, I've got two phones up 7 here, both of which are set on three minute timers. And 8 what we'll do is start the timer and if people want to 9 yield, we'll see if three people want to yield to one, 10 so that would be four 3-minute slots, then we'll have 12 11 minutes. And we'll follow it that way. Does everybody 12 understand how we're going to do the timing? 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And we've not limited 15 what they can talk about it. We've tried to make this 16 pretty open. So if they want to talk about septic, they 17 can talk about septic. If they want to talk about 18 water, wastewater, drainage water. If they want to talk 19 about water wells, water systems. If they want to talk 20 about archaeological concerns. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Flooding. Whatever. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Flooding. The whole thing. 23 The topic is wide open. So I'm going to read off the 24 first four names that I've got on here are Patrick 25 Quinn, Linda Peacock, Jerry Royce Price, and then -- I 46 1 want to call five. Shawn Henderson and Aubrey 2 Henderson. Those five. And I did that because I know 3 the Henderson's are going to give their minutes up. 4 (Off the record.) 5 JUDGE KELLY: The Sheriff is the Bailiff 6 shuttling them back and forth. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And they're watching 8 on YouTube. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Several of these people 10 are yielding to each other. So Mr. Quinn is going to 11 yield to another lady that's not among the first five. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So I believe one -- 14 among the first five the ones that are going to speak 15 would be Mr. Henderson -- which one's going to speak? 16 MR. HENDERSON: I am. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Aubrey is going 18 to speak first. He's your number five, and I believe 19 his son, Shawn, is going to yield to him. 20 MR. MORRISON: And then there's another -- 21 this man is going to yield so I'm going to yield too. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. So -- so you are 23 who? 24 MR. MORRISON: Mark Morrison. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mark Morrison and Shawn 47 1 Henderson are yielding to Aubrey Henderson. And Jerry 2 Price is yielding to Aubrey Henderson. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Just a second. What we're 4 going to ask you to do is give us your name and your 5 address. And once you've done that, then I'm going to 6 start the three minutes. And what we're going to do is 7 you've got nine minutes now so we'll have three of 8 these, okay? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are four of them, 10 counting that -- 11 JUDGE KELLEY: Jerry Royce Price? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mr. Price is yielding 13 to Aubrey. Shawn's yielding to Aubrey. And another 14 person is yielding to Aubrey. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Mark Morrison. I've got it. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mark Morrison. And 17 then -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: And then Aubrey does his own 19 thing. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And Aubrey is solo. 21 He's got his own. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Y'all can take that 23 off while you speak. 24 MR. HENDERSON: Yeah, I know. Judge, are 25 you going to let me know when we get to the towards the 48 1 end were I don't run over or -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: Yep. Yep. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So he'll have 12 4 minutes total. 5 JUDGE KELLY: So I'm not going to start the 6 time until after you give me your name and address. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Aubrey Henderson. 4035 8 Junction Highway, Ingram, Texas. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You may begin. 10 MR. HENDERSON: Okay. Good morning. I'd 11 like to talk first about flooding. Start with the 1932 12 flood. My family came here in 1857 so I think even 13 though I wasn't here in '32, generations, generations, I 14 know what my great-grandfather said to my grandfather 15 and my father Mike. 16 In 1932, in Mountain Home, and the two-story 17 building there at the Texas Camp -- Catholic Camp, I 18 believe it is -- the water is a two-story. As we come 19 on down, all that project that we're talking about was 20 under water. 21 My grandparents sat right there on the 22 corner. All that was under water in 1932. The old 23 saying was it was from mountain to mountain. The whole 24 valley. And when I say the valley, I mean from Mountain 25 Home to Ingram. Johnson Creek could not get in in 1932. 49 1 There was no way. That's why lower Ingram -- lower 2 Ingram was under water, and it put cypress trees all the 3 way T. J. Moore's store, where the murals are. Where 4 the murals are. Right there by the road. All that was 5 under water. Completely under water. 6 In 1932, Hunt washed away. The reason Hunt 7 washed away is because the south water could not get in 8 because the North Fork had already come down. No way. 9 So Hunt was -- took it completely out in 1932. Right 10 outside of here, you can go see the pictures. Kerrville 11 Time will still think they have them. It was sloshing 12 underneath this bridge. Completely underneath this 13 bridge. Where Ken Stoepel Ford is, all that, that was 14 all under water. The Shreiners, they call that the 15 Schreiner fields before that was ever developed. 16 Now we don't know. Mother nature. We don't 17 know when that next flood, when that tropical 18 disturbance is going to come, or a hurricane. That's 19 when we get those 35 -- I have seen in 1987 at my house 20 34 inches. 17 inches one night, 17 inches the next 21 night. That field down there that I plowed was under 22 water. I lost my crops. I lost my hay, everything. 23 But I'm here to tell you today, gentlemen, 24 I'd rather lose a crop of hay than lose those people 25 down there. You're talking about old people you're 50 1 going to put down there. Let's put them down there. 2 Let's put them down there. Okay. We have Hoot Owl 3 Hollow Road. All my kinfolks live on there. The tribe 4 and tributaries that are on the other side, now we're 5 talking about dry draw. You know what I'm talking 6 about, Jonathan. They have no bearing on us; Johnson 7 Creek does. 8 So let's forget Johnson Creek for -- it's 9 5,000 acres on the other side. Rocky Ford Ranch, my 10 great-grandfather had the other 25. 5,000 acres. 11 2,500 of that acreage goes to Henderson Ranch. It goes 12 into Johnson Creek a different way. That 2,500 acres of 13 land, and there's more ranch land but they're dry 14 contributaries. 15 That one that's coming into that project, I 16 can take you there and I'd invite every one of you. 17 I'll take you horseback, I'll take you any way you want 18 to go. Jonathan, he loves riding a horse. Let's go 19 ride to Johnson Creek. Don, I'll take you too. Or all 20 of you. I'll take Tom. I'll take any of you. Let's go 21 on the Mule and I'll show you. 22 But anyway -- I mean we gotta have a little 23 humor here today because everybody's so serious. But 24 we've got to look at this project and know that that dry 25 contributary that's coming in, that's the one I'm 51 1 talking about that's coming in there. It's serious. 2 The reason why is because we're -- and I've talked to 3 Chris. The man -- we had a wonderful conversation. And 4 he asked me -- he asked me, he goes, oh my, on the other 5 project that is not going to be done yet he goes, Oh my, 6 I didn't know the water level. We may not be able to do 7 Project 2. 8 But I'm telling you, gentlemen. That one 9 that's coming from underneath Highway 27, once it 10 channels there and it flows out, we got water problems. 11 If you'll go right now, this morning, I just drove by. 12 There's water standing down there. Now they're not 13 finished. Ed and them aren't finished. But the problem 14 is already, the Field A, and you have Field B, if you're 15 looking at it from the road. Field A, and Jonathan 16 knows what I'm talking about, Field A had terraces in 17 it. Now does everybody here know what terrace is? Don, 18 you know what terraces are. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Uh-huh. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Tom, do you know what -- 21 everybody I hope knows. Terraces are to deter and slow 22 down the water, but also as a farmer or rancher after 23 three days we drive around the Hill Country and we see 24 ponds of water on all those fields that held that water. 25 Eventually we don't see anymore. It went into the 52 1 ground. 2 But what has happened now, we have knocked 3 all those terraces out of Field A. That's a problem 4 down there. It has turned the water. It slowed the 5 water down. In between Field A and Field B, the people 6 that owned it before, since the 70's had a natural 7 channel that went down through there. It went right 8 from Highway 27, it weaved like this and it went direct 9 through that property. 10 They took all the dirt off of it. Mr. 11 Sandell, the older father, put rocks in there. And we 12 know what we're talking about, he put in there and 13 filled up with dirt, that water cut it out again. He 14 put it back and finally got a stand of coastal. So he 15 had a coastal field of 200 feet between Field A and 16 Field B. And we bailed that hay. We bailed that hay. 17 He got a stand finally to hold that water. We know what 18 water does in the Hill Country. 19 These rocks -- once it builds up, and 20 believe me, I don't care if it's down there at yours, 21 Jonathan, your grandfather's place, I know it's going to 22 come to the Guadalupe. And we get a tropical storm and 23 I've only seen 30 something inches. But we know from 24 Medina and Bandera in '87, 50 some -- 45, 50 inches. We 25 know what happened to Bandera. Five inches in the town. 53 1 Washed away all those trailer houses. We know what last 2 year up at Junction. Those poor people. When Rock 3 Springs got the water's head in Llano and they caught 4 them down at Llano. Washed them all away. I don't want 5 that to happen. 6 If y'all do the project then that's fine. 7 But I'm telling you, the problem is, if that dry 8 contributary cuts across there and you come off Highway 9 27 from the main -- excuse me, the main entrance, Ray 10 Lantz told me it's a disaster. You can't get to those 11 people. You can't go around by Hoot Owl Hollow because 12 those dry contributaries are coming through my property 13 and through other Henderson property, they're coming and 14 feeding right down to the corner. I mean, it's going to 15 be five or six feet. 16 What if that, underneath that, comes under 17 Highway 27, and it comes and it weaves in and it's 18 flowing, it's five or seven feet. Just five or seven 19 feet. Can a fire truck get through there? Those people 20 are sitting on an island out there. You can't come 21 around because Johnson Creek's already on the rise. You 22 can't go around by Hoot Owl Hollow and get them. 23 So okay, we got the main entrance. The main 24 entrance goes down and goes to the field. We've got 25 this beautiful RV park down there. Who's going to get 54 1 them? We haven't got enough helicopters here. We ain't 2 got enough helicopters in San Antonio. If those people 3 are sitting on their cars out there and it's only three 4 foot, I don't want my grandmother -- they're already 5 gone -- I don't want my mom down there. I mean it's a 6 disaster, gentlemen. 7 I mean, I'm going to tell you, I think you 8 were misinformed. I think maybe somebody didn't do 9 their homework. I really don't know. But, if you'll go 10 visit with the people, hey Aubrey, what's going on down 11 there? I get the calls about what's going on down 12 there, don't they know that that floods down there? 13 Now we're talking about, Jonathan, people 14 that you know, ranchers at Rock Springs, Mountain Home 15 on 41 out there are going, what's going on down there? 16 They've seen it only with their eyes from Highway 27. 17 They hadn't seen the visual that I have seen by living 18 on Johnson Creek. And living -- I live up high. But 19 there's a reason nobody built in that valley. There is 20 a reason. There is no dams before -- from the nine 21 miles from Ingram to Mountain Home. We can go ride a 22 horseback if you want to again and I'll show you. And 23 they're little dams. They're little dams that just held 24 the water and then when it flooded it went over. People 25 went across those crossings. Went to their property on 55 1 the other side. It's -- it is a problem. 2 I hope can you fix it. I hope everything 3 can go. But it doesn't look like you can fix it. If we 4 know that the water was down there in '32 and it's -- 5 what are we, 12 years away? 12 years away from the 6 hundred year flood. Can we gamble? Can we gamble and 7 we put it down there. We're okay. Everybody says okay. 8 It looks good. And the one day we get 50 inches. Now 9 did we get 50 up here or did we get 45 up there by the 10 Rocky Ford Ranch from I-10 and it comes this way. Do we 11 get 50 inches up there at Mountain Home, all around by 12 Hunt and here it comes. 13 The problem is when Johnson Creek backs up, 14 it backs up because it can't get into the Guadalupe 15 either. When the contributaries are coming from this 16 direction to it, they can't get in. It is going to be a 17 mess. There's water standing down there right now from 18 an inch and a half of rain. 19 Now, whether they're finished or not, it 20 doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something 21 has to be done. You cannot put those people down there. 22 Chris told me that day, he said, Aubrey, if it does 23 flood we think the houses are up high enough. It might 24 flood the garages. Well, you can't go on might. You 25 better know. Because we don't control the water, Mother 56 1 Nature will control the water. That's the problem. We 2 can talk about all we think, and we think that this will 3 be like this. No, we can't. Mother Nature will dictate 4 to us when that water comes. And that will be when the 5 hurricane hits at Corpus Christi and comes direct up 6 there and it sits for days and days. And it just sits 7 there and swirls around. That's when we'll know. 8 That's it, gentlemen. I'm just here to tell 9 ya my -- appreciate it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So your -- your concern 11 is developing something that's going to flood; not water 12 drainage off the property or sewer. That was what you 13 were talking about. 14 MR. HENDERSON: Well, yes, sir. I mean, 15 there's other points, but we haven't got time. I mean 16 that's another time. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So well, we -- what 18 Charlie looks at as the Floodplain Administrator, is 19 building inside -- making sure people are not building 20 or doing any kind of construction within the floodplain. 21 So if it's -- and so that's our -- that's our 22 regulation, you can't build within the floodplain. 23 So if it's out of the floodplain -- you just 24 mentioned Ken Stoepel Ford. And I -- you know, I live 25 east end of the County and in 2002 we got 40 inches of 57 1 rain in six days. And, you know, it -- 2 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- the Hill Country is 4 going to flood. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we have to stay out 7 of the floodplain. You mentioned Ken Stoepel Ford. 8 Well, they -- Ken Stoepel Ford could flood again. 9 MR. HENDERSON: Sure it could. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But we're -- you know, 11 that's -- do we not want to develop where Ken Stoepel 12 Ford is? I don't think we want to not develop in that 13 area. 14 JUDGE KELLY: It's not in the floodplain. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's -- that's my 16 point. Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But that area does 18 flood. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But it got flooded. It 20 got flooded. 21 MR. HENDERSON: But we're talking -- again, 22 we're talking about the hundred year flood. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, and the hundred 24 year flood was -- 25 MR. HENDERSON: And it hasn't flooded since. 58 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The hundred year flood 2 means one percent. It doesn't mean every hundred years. 3 It really means one percent probability you're not going 4 to exceed that. Okay. That's what a one -- hundred 5 year means. 6 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So anyway, just 8 to get your point is be careful, don't build where 9 people are going to get flooded and -- and bad things 10 happen. 11 MR. HENDERSON: I mean you can't -- you 12 can't -- and I don't know if I'm over or not. I'm just 13 going to say, you cannot have FEMA or anybody draw a 14 line. FEMA wasn't here in 1932, they don't know. But 15 you can't draw a line around the project and say, whoa, 16 Johnson Creek, please don't come, hey, from the north -- 17 say whoa, go around us. It's going to go. It's going 18 to go wherever it wants to. That's -- that's the 19 problem. 20 I mean, there's other problems there but we 21 don't have time to talk -- and I'm sure there's other 22 people going to hit on septic, water table, and all that 23 other. But gentlemen, it's going to happen. We're in 24 the lower -- and there's a reason why Mr. Sandell, when 25 he built his new house there when he came from Midland, 59 1 why didn't he say, Honey, why didn't we build down there 2 where we can walk right out and drink coffee and see 3 Johnson Creek? There is a reason all those new homes 4 that are around there didn't build down by Johnson 5 Creek. Johnson Creek will dictate to you. Guadalupe is 6 a beast. It is a beast. You know that, Rob, from you 7 living here. 8 JUDGE KELLY: It's the most dangerous river 9 in the country. 10 MR. HENDERSON: It's -- it is. And it's -- 11 I'm telling you, but Johnson Creek, gentlemen, is 12 unforgiving. It will sneak up to you in the middle of 13 the night and it will get you. Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me just see which 16 one and who's going to yield. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. The next -- the next -- 18 I'm going to start calling names. Konrad Wert, Sue 19 Walker, Glen Gilley, Nick Dornak, Ricardo Solis. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Number six on the list, 21 Konrad Wert, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Wert. 23 MR. WERT: Howdy. Good to see you folks, 24 how are you? My name is Konrad Wert, Precinct 1, 814 25 Lee Street. And let me first say thank you for your 60 1 service. And I wanted to share concerns regarding the 2 budgetary elements that are on the platform, I think all 3 the way to mid August. As I've been tuning in and 4 getting more involved with understanding the politics of 5 Kerr County and my -- my representative, Mr. Belew, he 6 recalled some of the occurrences that happened in the 7 past on his private radio station. 8 There are some concerning things that were 9 -- that were shared publicly. And as a constituent, I 10 have quite a few questions about that. I asserted 11 myself as a constituent and made the call and we were 12 able to sit down for a cup of coffee and I had a lovely 13 conversation. And where I'm going with this is I'm 14 encouraging those that are tuning in online and tuning 15 upstairs that we have to play a greater role as 16 constituents for our County Commissioners. 17 One thing that I was very surprised in 18 learning is the -- the salary that's allotted to 19 Commissioners. 62,000, if I'm not mistaken when I 20 checked online. And it's very interesting when we say 21 62,000 is a part-time salary. I'm a schoolteacher by 22 trade. So many times they allot County Commissioners 23 are a part-time position. 24 Well, I did a little digging as a concerned 25 constituent and I see that either many of you are 61 1 employed or have side businesses, and 62,000 is well 2 above the bar of school teachers here in the State of 3 Texas. And it became very concerning that 62,000 is 4 what's allotted to County Commissioners as a part-time 5 salary. 6 The next point that I hope our constituents 7 in this Kerr County area understand is that we are 8 facing a very significant budget deficit. We have 9 expenditures in the jail, we have -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Wert? 11 MR. WERT: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE KELLY: This part of the -- the agenda 13 we're dealing with the mobile home park issue. 14 MR. WERT: Very good. I -- I put down there 15 on the line, Judge Kelly, this was just public comment. 16 So I apologize if they called me incorrectly. 17 JUDGE KELLY: No, that's -- that's what we 18 called for first, remember? 19 MR. WERT: For whatever reason they didn't 20 call us down. So I apologize for that. Now, may I 21 finish my statement? 22 JUDGE KELLY: Go ahead. 23 MR. WERT: Very good. Thank you for 24 yielding that time. I'm simply encouraging us as 25 residents to hold our Commissioners' Court more 62 1 accountable. If you're earning 62,000 for a part-time 2 position, then I would hope that you're giving full-time 3 effort, not part-time effort. That's my biggest 4 concern. We're paying you gentlemen for a full-time 5 salary yet we're only getting part-time effort by your 6 time. Peace to you and all the best. Thank you, Judge 7 Kelly. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One comment. If you 9 could come back at two o'clock, we have a budget 10 workshop and -- 11 MR. WERT: I'll check with my family. I'll 12 check with my wife. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. That would be -- 14 that would be the time to -- to have your comments and 15 have an effect. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question is I 17 don't know where you got the idea it's a part-time job. 18 MR. WERT: Please share more. Please share 19 more. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We'll talk about it at 21 two o'clock. 22 JUDGE KELLY: There's no clock. It's not a 23 part-time job for me. 24 MR. WERT: Very good. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're making an 63 1 assertion, and you don't know what you're talking about. 2 MR. WERT: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And based -- what did 4 you base that on? 5 MR. WERT: Our conversation that you and I 6 had. Your full-time job as a radio announcer in the 7 area that seems to be very biased and doesn't always 8 speak for the constituents in Kerr County. And I think 9 it's our responsibility, as Mr. Letz likes to laugh at 10 this comment, I think it's our responsibility to hold 11 our Commissioners accountable, sir. Sincerely. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that conversation I 13 had with you that day, Konrad -- 14 MR. WERT: Uh-huh, yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- was part of the 16 thing that I do all the time with people all over the 17 County. People like you, who I take the time, that's 18 part of the job, to meet with, talk with, find out what 19 their concerns are, see if there's a problem in their 20 neighborhood. Get the pothole filled. Get the tree cut 21 down so you can see the stop sign. All of those things 22 every day, all day long with people just like you. And 23 that's what I was doing when I was talking to you. 24 MR. WERT: You were an hour late. You were 25 an hour late, if you don't recall, and I had to call the 64 1 Court's office to see where's Mr. Belew? He was -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I was at more pressing 3 things ahead of you. 4 MR. WERT: Well, it would have been 5 important to have that call to a constituent. I -- I 6 would challenge you though, sir, I'm not sure that's 7 worth $62,000 of an annual salary when we're facing a 8 very significant budget -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That is not -- that is 10 not -- 11 MR. WERT: -- due to -- due to circumstances 12 beyond our control but that doesn't -- 13 (Talking over) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Harley, it doesn't make 15 any difference. 16 JUDGE KELLY: (Banging gavel.) 17 MR. WERT: Take care, sir. Good speaking to 18 you. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Who do we have next? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. We have Melanie 21 Ellsworth and Patrick Quinn, who is here. And Claudette 22 Beard and Shelly Lawson are giving Melanie their time. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So how many are going 24 to come? 25 JUDGE KELLY: Before -- before we get to 65 1 Melanie, what about these other people that I called? 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: Well, Pat Quinn was the very 3 first on the list and because he's given me his minutes 4 they called him down and I'm tied to Pat so they said, 5 well, if Pat's giving me his minutes then just come down 6 because he was number one on the list. 7 JUDGE KELLY: So you want to go now? 8 MS. ELLSWORTH: Well, I mean, I can go back 9 up. I've been up twice. You want me to get some 10 exercise? 11 JUDGE KELLY: State your name. 12 MS. ELLSWORTH: Melanie Ellsworth. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Address? 14 MS. ELLSWORTH: 230 Dowling Road. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: I probably won't take all of 17 12 minutes. Really, I could probably do it in three to 18 six. But I'm going to try -- I'm a fast talker so I'll 19 try to -- try to get it out. 20 Basically, real quick, I'm -- I'm a retired 21 schoolteacher. I was a science teacher. And one thing 22 we learn in 5th grade science is there's changes to the 23 environment that happens when something goes in. And 24 there's negative impacts and positive, but basically 25 there's man-made changes and environmental changes. 66 1 We're talking about, just to cut to the 2 chase, a man-made change to an environment that might 3 have an impact. Okay. So just get it there. 4 I don't even -- I'm not even going to argue 5 or talk about the variance. We're -- we're just going 6 to assume zero. Because I think, Judge Kelly, you think 7 that's fair. 8 JUDGE KELLY: That's the law. That's the 9 law. 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: And that's the law. And 11 that's -- so I'm not mad about any of that, you know, 12 that's not any issue. What I want to talk about is 13 let's just assume, and hold them to zero percent. Do 14 you feel like that's legitimate? Okay. So we want zero 15 percent change. Okay. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and this is -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: In runoff. 18 JUDGE KELLY: -- stormwater drainage runoff, 19 right? 20 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yes. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 22 MS. ELLSWORTH: Stormwater drainage runoff. 23 Zero percent. We're good there. Everybody's good? 24 Okay. Let me give you a picture real quick. Can you 25 pass that around or do you want me to walk over there? 67 1 (Passing around photos.) 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: So we had -- we had a one 3 and a half inch rain on Saturday. And I put my boots 4 on, I walked up, I crossed the creek and walked all the 5 way up on Glenna Heavin's property and I got 136 6 pictures and a bunch of videos but I just tried to sum 7 it down to one page for you. 8 And basically, you can see that as it 9 started it was, you know, all this brown water coming 10 in. And I walked the whole -- I think you'll see a 11 video today. But anyway, I walked and followed the 12 path. And in science when we wanted to follow the -- 13 the flow of water, you can put a drop of food coloring 14 in to see if -- where the flow goes. And luckily, we 15 had -- we didn't have food coloring but we had this sand 16 and silt. 17 And obviously, they're in pre-construction 18 so it's not -- I mean they're -- they're not finished so 19 we've got a lot of dirt and -- and it all washed down. 20 And -- and that happens, because eventually it's going 21 to be a development with streets and -- and grass and 22 that won't be -- that won't be -- the dirt won't be 23 coming down obviously. But what was nice about having 24 the dirt is it showed the flow. We can really deduct 25 that the water from here came here. Wouldn't you agree? 68 1 I mean, it makes sense. 2 And scientifically, there's evidence saying 3 this water that was up here got in the creek because 4 that's the same color that was up here that ended up in 5 the creek. And so we -- we want -- yes? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question. Could 7 you give me the references. I take it the -- so I know 8 where -- 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. Let me just tell you. 10 Yeah. This is -- so this is my property. I'm standing 11 on my property. And there's kind of an island on my 12 property. You can get out on it and it comes -- the 13 water comes two channels. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And your property is 15 below? 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'm at -- I'm right across. 17 Kind of -- kind of below and across. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Across the street. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, can you tell us 20 which direction you're looking here? 21 MS. ELLSWORTH: Yeah. Yeah. This one I'm 22 standing -- I'm stand -- the top left I'm standing -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm -- I'm saying east, 24 west? What are you -- just give everybody some 25 perspective. 69 1 MS. ELLSWORTH: Gosh, I'm terrible about 2 that. The sun sets in the west. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're the science 4 teacher. 5 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. You're right. East 6 and west. I'm standing -- the sun's setting there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're kind of looking 8 -- you're kind of looking north. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: I'm looking north. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, you're looking 11 across the river. 12 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. I'm looking north. 13 The water is in the development right up here. It's 14 coming down, and you can see real clearly the creek was 15 this color and now it's this color. Okay. Then -- now 16 this second picture in the middle, I'm standing in the 17 middle of the creak. And the development's up on the 18 right. My house is up on the left. We've got the left 19 flow is blue, the right flow is brown. 20 The top right corner, I went up to Glenna 21 Heavin's property and I followed the flow and we had a 22 breach in the construction fence. Okay. I got to 23 another breach under that. There's a second breach in 24 the construction fence. They used to have a pasture of 25 goats right there, a pen, it was about this much under 70 1 water. The goat weren't there. Got to that breach, 2 looked up and that's the lake on the left. The two -- 3 these two are the lake that -- where the homes would be. 4 That's where they're going to build them. And -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: There's still fences holding 6 that water back? 7 MS. ELLSWORTH: -- this fence is holding the 8 water back. And then this bottom one is at the end, 9 kind of at the end of the whole rain, the whole thing is 10 muddy. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this Johnson Creek or 12 is that -- 13 MS. ELLSWORTH: This is Johnson Creek. It's 14 usually blue. But it's -- it's completely brown. So by 15 the -- I should have labeled them. Sorry. But you get 16 the kind of -- I walked up the hill, found where all 17 this is coming from. And so I realize this is during 18 construction, so can't hold you but -- but we're -- we 19 just talked about zero. Zero percent change. And you 20 said zero percent change would happen. This is what 21 happened, and I think it needs to be fixed. I mean, 22 I -- I wouldn't want to build a home on this. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is still under 24 construction though. 25 MS. ELLSWORTH: It is still under 71 1 construction. But I mean, how are you going to build in 2 a lake? It's still under construction but -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well -- right, the 4 point is that at completion there's no change. Now what 5 happens in the interim -- 6 MS. ELLSWORTH: Right exactly. Perfect. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- nobody can control 8 that and exactly what Mr. Henderson said a little while 9 ago -- 10 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- you're going to have 12 some flooding and everybody knows that about Johnson 13 Creek. 14 MS. ELLSWORTH: Exactly. Exactly. So right 15 now the plan is as in place -- this is what the plan's 16 looking like. They're putting the plan into place. We 17 got a problem. So do they need to change the plan? I 18 mean last week we talked about it and you said 19 obviously, we need to put in some retention ponds or 20 something. So that's what I'm here to say is what -- 21 what -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's mitigation. Isn't 23 that really the issue, Charlie? 24 MR. HASTINGS: The plans need to change. 25 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 72 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 2 MS. ELLSWORTH: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But if we -- if there's 4 retention, then that will change the zero -- 5 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- then you're 7 retaining water and that changes everything and we 8 cannot do that. We cannot require that. 9 MS. ELLSWORTH: Now say that again? What 10 did you say? 11 MR. HASTINGS: We can require zero. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We can require zero. 13 MR. HASTINGS: We can require zero. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We cannot require -- 15 (Talking over). 16 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It would be with 18 retention. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: With retention it would 20 be less than -- 21 MS. ELLSWORTH: We're wasting time arguing 22 if we're going to require more, because we're not going 23 to require -- it -- we want zero. We'll just say -- say 24 zero. Charlie, does the plan need to change to get to 25 zero? 73 1 MR. HASTINGS: The plans need to change to 2 say that. 3 MS. ELLSWORTH: Okay. That's what I want. 4 I want the plans to change. So if it -- you know, I 5 lived in -- I came from Houston. When a house goes in 6 or a subdivision goes in, you put up a retention pond. 7 When you have houses and concrete go in in an area, 8 you're going to have more runoff because it's not the 9 same. 10 So to get to zero, we've got to have a 11 retention pond, we've got to do something. And what we 12 see that's happened now, and I appreciate Jason saying 13 we depend on you to be our eyes and ears. He just said 14 that. Here I am. I'm your eyes and ears on what's 15 going on in the ground. The plan is not working as is. 16 Charlie said we need to change the plan. I really 17 appreciate that. That's what I'm here for. Let's 18 change the plan. Do it right. 19 We've got -- I'm here to kind of wave my 20 hands and say it's not working, what we've got, let's 21 make a change and let's do it right. And, you know, 22 stick to the law. But -- but do it right. And where we 23 don't have more than zero percent. Right? 24 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 25 MS. ELLSWORTH: Thank you. 74 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your Honor, the next 5 one that's close would be speaking on his own. Glen 6 Gilley. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Got him. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead and introduce 9 yourself. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Glen, you can take 11 your mask off while you're talking. 12 MR. GILLEY: Glen Gilley, 172 Dally. So 13 good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for hearing us 14 today. This isn't about trailer parks. There are 15 multiple parks up and down Johnson creek. The concern 16 is about drainage, public health and water quality. 17 Something that the Court has agreed with in 18 the past but has forgotten the situation. February 10, 19 2003, Commissioner Letz said, Subdivisions will require 20 that very strict standards be met regarding runoff. I 21 can assure the public that we will do everything we can 22 within our rules to protect other property owners in the 23 area. 24 Judge Kelly brought this up in the September 25 23rd, 2019 variance hearing. Well, and so the public 75 1 understands, the Texas Water Code says you can't divert 2 water. You can't go and make improvements and start 3 dumping more water on your neighbor. There's been a lot 4 of lawsuits in the state over doing that precise thing. 5 Commissioner Letz's assurances doesn't seem 6 to be applying here and Judge Kelly's warning is being 7 ignored. Other properties are being flooded from 8 diverted drainage runoff. 9 This brings us to flooding. We all know 10 Hill Country is an unpredictable area when it comes to 11 flooding. Unfortunately, the FEMA floodplain maps do 12 not show the unpredictability. Why is this development 13 being allowed to build so close to the FEMA floodplain 14 when we all know the inaccuracies? There are plots for 15 home sites at the southern end of the property, only a 16 few hundred feet from Johnson Creek. There are multiple 17 septic systems along that boundary as well. What 18 happens when that entire area is under water? 19 On May 29, 2007, Commissioner Oehler said, 20 well, it's a good thing that all three forks didn't come 21 down like Johnson Creek and like Dry Branch did, because 22 if they had the country would have been pretty well 23 damaged, I think. There are areas up there that had as 24 much as nine inches in about a five-hour period and I've 25 heard one report of 15 inches in one area. Close to 76 1 where I live there were some people that lost a lot of 2 fence and covered up the highway with boulders and trees 3 and all the way down 479. It was almost level across. 4 I'm assuming it was the river. It's not as big as it's 5 been, but it was pretty big for a short time. 6 Commissioner Letz addressed the FEMA issue 7 on January 23rd, 2017. The bottom line is that the true 8 100-year floodplain hits North Fork, South Fork, Johnson 9 Creek and Third Creek. It's all irrelevant anyway. 10 It's all going to flood. Because the models say that 11 doesn't happen. It doesn't say that it shouldn't 12 happen, but it could happen. We don't know when it's 13 going to happen. 14 Thunderstorms are very, very variable. So 15 we have to do floodplain models. We have to follow 16 them. But at the same time, from a true flood 17 standpoint they're not real, real value in my mind. 18 They give you an idea under a certain criteria. 19 This brings us to why. Governments survive 20 on taxes, we all know this. Tax revenue increases when 21 raw land is developed. Commissioner Moser said on 22 March 25th, 2019. 23 Second thing, there's a couple of people 24 that are looking at developing small divisions, and 25 they're only interested in that because the sewer system 77 1 is -- I got a call this week from one person that has 40 2 acres near Verde Creek. And that he bought that 3 property with that intention not knowing the sewer 4 system was coming in, so he's probably going to do 5 something on that. That's all good from a County 6 perspective. 7 So from development to revenue and 8 ad valorem taxes and use of system, so that's it. 9 However, is it worth it? Is it worth the risk of 10 putting 20,000 gallons of sewage per day in leach line 11 septic tanks a few hundred feet from a live creek? Is 12 it worth the risk of dropping the water table? Is it 13 worth the risk of lives being lost in a flood? As 14 Commissioner Moser likes to say, if it doesn't pass the 15 look right criteria, something is wrong. This doesn't 16 look right. Thank you. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Gilley. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, the next one I 20 have is Nick Dornak, and Ms. Linda Peacock is donating 21 her minutes to him. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Mr. Dornak. 23 MR. DORNAK: Good morning. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Good morning. 25 JUDGE KELLY: State your name and address. 78 1 MR. DORNAK: Nick Dornak, 100 Water Park 2 Road, Wimberley, Texas. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 4 MR. DORNAK: Thank you, Judge and 5 Commissioners. I just want to mention that I've been 6 retained to provide some opinion on this from a 7 scientific perspective. I work at the Meadows Center at 8 Texas State University. But I'm an independent 9 consultant in this case so my views do not necessarily 10 represent Texas State or the Meadows Center. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So what's your 12 expertise? 13 MR. DORNAK: Well, I grew up on -- 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, professionally? 15 MR. DORNAK: Yes. Well, this goes to that. 16 I grew up on a ranch down in South Texas. And water was 17 always a very key part of that. Went to Texas A&M 18 University and received a degree in AG Development and a 19 Master's Degree at the University of Wyoming in 20 rangeland ecology and watershed management. And for the 21 last 20 years I've been working on water quality issues, 22 water resource issues and educating stakeholders on 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. Thank 25 you. 79 1 MR. DORNAK: Sure. So I -- I wanted to just 2 mention that the letter that I provided for Mr. Gordon 3 is in your red envelope here. I'm not going to read the 4 letter, but I just wanted to -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: Well, give us a summary 6 because we haven't even had time to read it. 7 MR. DORNAK: Okay. Well, the letter -- the 8 summary of the letter basically looks at potential 9 impacts from a water quality perspective and from a 10 stormwater management perspective of this development. 11 I reviewed numerous documents, including the development 12 plan, pointed out some concerns with regard to the 13 proximity to the creek, the addition of impervious 14 cover, and the potential polluting impacts from that. 15 So I speak a little bit about hungry water 16 and that's what happens when you have water that falls 17 to the earth and there's not as many places for it to 18 soak in and disperse anymore, so it has all this energy 19 that it's looking to disperse and it becomes very hungry 20 and will pick up pollutants, will pick up sediment and 21 deposit those at a much more rapid clip. 22 You also have the septic systems here that, 23 you know, again, appear to be sized properly. The 24 development has been clearly discussed today as right 25 outside the floodplain. But what we have is potential 80 1 changes to the floodplain that can take place when you 2 -- when you develop like this. 3 So some of the things that we recommend, and 4 I would recommend this, as you're trying to get down to 5 a zero percent change on discharge, one of the things 6 that we've been doing extensively, there's a ton of 7 research out there with regard to storm water retention. 8 It would be the incorporation of green stormwater 9 infrastructure. Things like rainwater harvesting, 10 impervious surfaces, like permeable pavers rather than 11 pavement. Things like that. That you don't have to 12 take up real estate area and put in a giant retention 13 pond, but if you disperse your infrastructure throughout 14 the development it can offset that and actually create 15 more of a natural flow pattern as well. So you can help 16 slowly recharge the ground water, keep your base flows 17 up in your creek, and avoid some of that flashy kind of 18 behavior that we're talking about, what, you know, these 19 kind of developments can cause in flash floods and 20 enhance the effects of flooding. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nick, I have a 22 question. 23 MR. DORNAK: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Would that -- would 25 that qualify as retention then? 81 1 MR. DORNAK: It would -- it would be 2 considered under stormwater retention. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 4 MR. DORNAK: So the engineer would be able 5 to incorporate those things throughout the development. 6 We have a ton of resources that are available. I work 7 on watershed protection plans, which are voluntary plans 8 that communities engage with TCEQ to get funding to 9 implement non-point source pollution protection, 10 practices like that. 11 So we do this all over the State of Texas. 12 Particularly in the Hill Country it's very important as 13 we're, you know, in the Edwards Aquifer contributing 14 zone. We've got these pristine Hill Country streams 15 with low nutrients. When you add in these developments 16 and impervious covers, you're going to be picking up a 17 lot of those nutrients and changing the chemistry of the 18 stream and that's going to change the quality of the 19 stream. 20 Also during construction, having the storm 21 water controls is very important as we heard 22 demonstrated before. That water went from blue above 23 the development to brown below when we have storm 24 drainage obstruction. 25 The other thing that I did want to mention 82 1 and leave the door open too for your consideration, 2 we're currently engaging with Hays County on developing 3 some drainage criteria for flood -- with their 4 floodplain administrator. Basically, you know, counties 5 are very limited to what they can do with developments, 6 you know, statutorily. Cities have a lot more 7 enforcement power. Even in their -- even in their ETJs 8 you can introduce ordinances for water quality. So 9 we're actually -- just had ordinances passed in 10 Wimberley and Wood Creek and we're now working with Hays 11 County on their drainage criteria. 12 But what it would do is look at watershed 13 over 64 acres, so if you've got a creek or a stream with 14 a watershed of over 64 acres, it would require setbacks 15 from that stream to provide additional buffer zone and 16 protect the floodplain. 17 So it's a way to kind of ease into 18 development and just make sure that it's safe, 19 protective of the environment, and protecting the people 20 there as well. So trying to incentivize those kinds of 21 things with developers is a great way for a County to do 22 that and I would be happy to, you know, answer any 23 questions or work with you guys in the future on -- on 24 that. 25 I think this development is an example that 83 1 really should be learned from, you know, test out what 2 you can do here, and try to learn from it, and 3 hopefully, implement some measures and incentives and 4 programs to ensure that we're doing things safely and 5 developing safely in a way that's going to be protective 6 of people and the environment that they all come to live 7 here for. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- I have one 9 comment, Judge, if I could. And I agree with a lot of 10 what you said, Mr. Dornak. But this development, I 11 believe, is not in the ETJ. 12 MR. DORNAK: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the -- it's in 14 the County. 15 MR. DORNAK: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the counties have no 17 authority to do the things that you were just mentioning 18 that municipalities have to do. 19 MR. DORNAK: Well, they -- they do not have 20 the ability to, let's say, require green storm water 21 infrastructure, so the developer in your case, you know, 22 trying to meet their runoff requirements can do 23 retention, can do anything. I'm just saying that's one 24 option -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 84 1 MR. DORNAK: -- that a County could 2 recommend to the developer and get there -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 4 MR. DORNAK: -- so when you're having those 5 conversations with engineers and developers say, hey, 6 you don't want to lose five homes to this retention 7 pond, have you thought about doing green -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So that's -- that's how 9 you control the flow. That retention ponds are what 10 you're talking about now -- 11 MR. DORNAK: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- as being -- I mean 13 there are multiple -- multiple ways of doing it, right? 14 MR. DORNAK: It's not -- but it's not a 15 pond. It's -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. 17 MR. DORNAK: -- infrastructure. Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I understand. It's 19 just another solution. 20 MR. DORNAK: Yes. Another solution. Yeah. 21 And trying to mimic natural flow. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do you have any -- 23 since you were hired by these people, do you have any 24 issue with the sanitation engineer's work done on the 25 facility or -- 85 1 MR. DORNAK: On the -- on the septic issues? 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 3 MR. DORNAK: Well, again, I think with the 4 -- with developments in general, it's important to note 5 where they're -- where they're being built and how 6 they're being built. When you put septic systems like 7 this, it appears that they meet the requirement and 8 statutes that -- that are out there from the State. But 9 what you're doing is you're putting this potential risk 10 factor right on the edge. You know, right -- right in 11 closer proximity to the stream. You know, about as 12 close as you can. 13 And so if things fail or when things fail, 14 which they almost always do -- 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, if they fail then 16 they've got a problem. But with -- with -- my question 17 is, sanitation engineer designed this to meet the 18 requirements. Do you have any issue with that? 19 MR. DORNAK: I -- I don't really have any -- 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Okay. 21 MR. DORNAK: -- any concerns on the septic 22 at this point. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thanks. 24 MR. DORNAK: From any data I've seen. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you. 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good point. 2 MR. DORNAK: Thank you. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Who do we have 4 next, Sheriff? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The next one to 6 speak is Glenna Heavin and she has Ricardo Solis and 7 Stu Walker is donating their time to her. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Got them all. Ms. Heavin. 9 MS. HEAVIN: Good morning. My name is 10 Glenna Heavin and I reside at 189 Henderson Ranch Road, 11 Ingram, Texas. 12 JUDGE KELLY: You may proceed. 13 MS. HEAVIN: Okay. I mentioned to you last 14 week that I've been a resident here in Kerr County for 15 18 years. I'd like to just begin by responding to 16 Commissioner Belew on your comments on your recent radio 17 show when you said that neighbors are so opposed to this 18 Meadowbrook Development because it's manufactured homes 19 and that we were discriminating against that kind of 20 thing. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I didn't say all. 22 MS. HEAVIN: I'm sorry? 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Some. 24 MS. HEAVIN: Some. I -- I want to 25 respectfully respond that nothing could be further from 87 1 the truth. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm glad to hear that. 3 MS. HEAVIN: In fact, I'm a huge proponent 4 of the development of more affordable housing in Kerr 5 County. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good. 7 MS. HEAVIN: I totally believe we need more 8 reasonably priced housing. But I'm going to use my time 9 to talk about many of the problems that I have with the 10 development plan at Meadowbrook and specifically on the 11 storm drainage. 12 As I told you last week, I'm on the property 13 located at 100 Big Daddy Road that wraps around both the 14 eastern and southern perimeters of the entire Phase 1 15 development. I've witnessed firsthand on multiple 16 occasions the raging power of water from both runoff and 17 Johnson Creek flooding on these properties during heavy 18 rain. 19 The lower section of Meadowbrook's Phase 1 20 development plan, where most of 102 home sites are 21 located, was previously a large crop field. It was the 22 lowest area along the stretch of Johnson Creek 23 floodplain and became a virtual lake where runoff would 24 stand for days. The water -- and so I don't know if the 25 engineers considered it, the water didn't run off the 88 1 property. It inadvertently served as its own retention 2 pond in the -- in this giant field. Following the heavy 3 storms we had in late May with all the hail and all of 4 that, the -- the entire area was just standing water 5 everywhere, and luckily the developers were able to see 6 that firsthand. Homesites cannot be situated where 7 they're standing surrounded by water. 8 So since that time, I have watched every 9 day, eight hours a day, eating the dust, heard the roar 10 as unfathomable amount of fill has been brought in to 11 build up this area so these home sites won't be sitting 12 in water, and rightfully so. 13 But I'm -- I'm witnessing other things 14 happen. And that is, the Developer is changing the 15 grade on most of Phase 1. The problem is, development 16 plan calls for no retain -- containment. And with the 17 new grade the water that used to sit, not runoff, on 18 those 30 acres of farmland now has no place to go but 19 adjoining property. That is unacceptable. 20 Section 11.086 of the Texas Water Code 21 provides that no person may divert or impound the 22 natural flow of surface water in the state or permit a 23 diversion or impounding attempt to continue in a manner 24 that damages the property of another by the overflow of 25 water diverted or impounded. 89 1 This past Friday, the 31st, we had a 2 downpour about -- measured one and a half inches, not a 3 rain gauge, according to official records. As a matter 4 of fact, I was outside on my back porch because my back 5 -- my house is up high and overlooks the entire 6 development, watching that storm, when all of a sudden, 7 I heard these loud explosion, popping sounds and looked 8 over to the development to see their transformers 9 blowing. I was witnessing all this happen. 10 Well, the power out, there was no reason to 11 go back inside so I stayed out on my porch and actually 12 observed what happened. The change of grade and the 13 diversion of runoff on the Meadowbrook Development was 14 dramatically obvious since the May 28th big rains we 15 had. All the water that had previously stood in that 16 field was now flowing down to one corner of the property 17 called a drainage field on their development plan. This 18 yellow represents my property, and this gray area here 19 on the development plan is where all the water from all 20 of this surrounding went. Okay. 21 I have photos and videos, which we 22 introduced today into evidence -- or for your 23 consideration, to show the vast amount of runoff that 24 was directed to that area, and drained through my goat 25 pen, my shelter, and across my property through an old 90 1 pecan bottom for over 300 yards before it entered 2 Johnson Creek. Now, it's not that far from that 3 drainage field to Johnson Creek, but the way they 4 diverted it, that's the way it flowed. It was not just 5 a new runoff that had never been there before, but it 6 was the amount of runoff from a one and a half inch rain 7 that was far greater than any runoff I'd ever seen on 8 the property. 9 I want to explain as well that there was 10 damage from this one and a half inch rain runoff to my 11 property, including bent steel fence posts where the 12 water came rushing through the fence, actually bent my 13 fence posts. The shed and goat pen had water standing 14 up I would say about eight to ten inches. Luckily, in 15 the spring I moved my goats to another pasture, put in a 16 new crop fence and they were not in -- in the fence at 17 the time. 18 My road was damaged. And I -- it's visible 19 new erosion all through this beautiful pecan -- native 20 pecan bottom that runs along the creek there, where the 21 grass was all flattened, eaten away and there is now 22 dirt exposed. My concerns for the serious pollution 23 issues that have been brought up or for the flooding 24 that Aubrey Henderson spoke to or that Mr. Dornak just 25 spoke to, these are concerns. Not just when it comes to 91 1 Meadowbrook's development plan, but going forward. 2 We all want to see our County grow and 3 prosper. I just want new developments done responsibly. 4 No plan can be rubber stamped. Serious environmental 5 and safety issues for Kerr residents must be carefully 6 studied and protected. Drainage controls are within the 7 jurisdiction of this body. You have a moral and a legal 8 responsibility for the citizens of this County to set 9 and enforce drainage regulations for everyone. I am 10 asking you to uphold the high standard to keep Kerr 11 County and it's natural resources the pristine jewel of 12 Texas and the reason we've chosen it as our home. 13 Failure to do so will lead to catastrophic damage to our 14 waterways and to our property. 15 Of even greater concern, is that when a big 16 flood does come, homes located in that Johnson Creek 17 floodplain, such as the Meadowbrook Retirement 18 Community, could suffer devastating damages and even 19 possible loss of life. Please protect us. Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So let -- let me ask 21 you a question, if I may. 22 MS. HEAVIN: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it sounds like what 24 you're saying is, the water leaving the Meadowbrook 25 property -- 92 1 MS. HEAVIN: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- is leaving in a 3 different location than it was before? 4 MS. HEAVIN: Yes. In several locations. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Just -- just 6 item number one. You said that. 7 MS. HEAVIN: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Now, item number two is 9 you said the amount of water leaving that has increased 10 over what it used to be? 11 MS. HEAVIN: Yes, sir. Dramatically. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So just -- I just 13 wanted to make sure I understood. 14 MS. HEAVIN: That is correct. That is my -- 15 that is my point. And I do have considerable photo and 16 video -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. So those -- 18 MS. HEAVIN: -- to show you. Yes, I stood 19 out there in the lightning striking everywhere because 20 it was -- - I couldn't even -- the picture says a 21 thousand words. And I could spend here -- I could spend 22 30 minutes here and not be able to show you or -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So those are your two 24 main points right there? 25 MS. HEAVIN: Those are my two main points. 93 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Leaving in a different 2 location and the amount coming down -- 3 MS. HEAVIN: Dramatic increase. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 5 MS. HEAVIN: Without containment, I -- and 6 this was a one and a half inch rain. I just can't 7 fathom anything greater. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 9 MS. HEAVIN: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can we take a 11 short break at some point? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I show -- I do show two 13 more speakers is it. The next one is Pedro Villarreal. 14 He has public comment but he advised me that he is over 15 1.3 on your agenda. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Say what now? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On his written deal 18 here, he says it's about public comment. But I asked 19 him and he says it is 1.3. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So Pedro Villarreal is 22 next and then the last one will be Mr. Roger Gordon. 23 That's the last two I show. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Do we need to take a break 25 now? 94 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe before Mr. Gordon. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mr. Pedro Villarreal. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Good morning. 4 MR. VILLARREAL: Good morning. My name is 5 Pedro Villarreal. My wife Dora and I are retired, 6 senior citizens. I'm also a veteran. We've had our 7 ranch almost 25 years, outside of Ingram, on Highway 27. 8 324 Hoot Owl Hollow Road. We have about a half a mile 9 of Johnson Creek that borders our property. 10 I'm here to voice my concern about another 11 trailer park that practically sits almost on Johnson 12 Creek. My concern is the septic system that will feed 13 off the trailers, and if it was to malfunction or stop 14 working, then dump also goes into Johnson Creek, it 15 would be disastrous for everyone involved. Not just for 16 the citizens of Ingram, but also for the citizens of 17 Kerrville, and those cities downstream of the Guadalupe 18 River where Johnson Creek feeds into. 19 A few years back, Armadillo Trailer Park's 20 septic system malfunctioned and had to be shutdown for a 21 while until the septic system was brought up to 22 standards. And luckily, the sewage didn't reach Johnson 23 Creek because there was a buffer zone to keep it from 24 reaching the creek. 25 My wife and I are concerned with the air, 95 1 the land and the water. We strongly feel that our 2 natural resources shouldn't be abused by anyone to make 3 a buck. I voiced my concern to our Commissioner, 4 Precinct 4, Don Harris, and he said he was against it 5 before he voted for it. I find that astounding. If 6 he's really concerned about his constituents, why did he 7 vote that way? 8 The other concern is, why did the 9 Commissioners and County Judge try to muscle the 10 taxpayers' voices about this huge trailer park? What 11 compelled you to hastily approve this project without 12 taxpayer approval or input? Never in my 25 years here 13 have I seen where the taxpayers' voice was left out by 14 the previous Commissioners. It astounds me to see this 15 happening here, and we will remember what happens here 16 at election time. 17 I've seen Johnson Creek flood several 18 hundred yards into flatland. I've even had to sleep two 19 or three times on that side of the creek because I'm on 20 the south side of Johnson Creek. And I've had to sleep 21 on that side while my wife is still at the ranch by 22 herself. And I don't see any justifications in adding 23 another trailer park. It's like saying, you know what, 24 let's build a power plant right on Johnson Creek because 25 the money is what counts. It's not the people, and it's 96 1 not the safety of the environment; it's the money that 2 counts. And it shouldn't be that way. 3 I come from the Galveston and Houston area 4 and I've seen what they -- those plants have done to 5 pollute the area. The children breathe it. The senior 6 citizens breathe it. The veterans breathe it. 7 Everybody breathes that. 8 Now, you've seen what's happened to Michigan 9 up there in their water system. Now, do we want Texas 10 to start polluting our waterways also? I don't think 11 so. It's going to be very costly for future generations 12 because they ain't going to have anything to drink. 13 So my concern is that trailer park and 14 anything that's industrial that they want to build on 15 Johnson Creek. And I thank you for hearing me out. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: One thing I might say, 17 is I remember speaking with you and I told you -- you're 18 exactly right, I told you I wasn't for development down 19 there. But our hands were tied. They -- they were 20 satisfied. They met State requirements and we couldn't 21 stop it. We tried to stop it. It's property rights. 22 We -- we couldn't stop them from doing that and -- no 23 matter how I felt. And I felt much like you. But it's 24 their property. And they satisfied the requirements 25 they needed to to go forward with it. 97 1 MR. VILLARREAL: Well, there's five of 2 y'all. And one thing I understand is when somebody 3 tells me one thing and does something else, it tells me 4 something else is happening besides that. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Villarreal, it's the law. 6 We can't stop people from using their property if they 7 use it legally. And when it comes to a development, we 8 have requirements and they have -- we have to enforce 9 those requirements, rigidly, but we can't say you can't 10 put a trailer park there. 11 MR. VILLARREAL: But we elect you people. 12 And it's up to you to say, you know what, I don't agree 13 with it. 14 JUDGE KELLY: No, sir. It doesn't work that 15 way. We get sued if we do that. Because we have taken 16 those people's property rights away from them without 17 compensation. We can't do that. It's against the law. 18 We can get arrested for this stuff. 19 MR. VILLARREAL: You mean we elect y'all and 20 when it's time to vote for your constituents you can 21 say, I have to go with it? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we said we have to 23 follow the law. 24 JUDGE KELLY: We have to follow the law. 25 Whatever it is. 98 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Period. Period. We've 2 got to follow the law. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's like this. If we 4 decided that we wanted to change the speed limit 5 someplace, we can't do that. It's already set. It's 6 State law. It's done. We can vote all day long on it, 7 it's not going to change anything. That's all they're 8 saying. 9 How we voted or what our personal opinions 10 are about something doesn't change what the law is and 11 we cannot go beyond that. 12 JUDGE KELLY: God knows we don't need 13 anymore trailer parks in Kerr County. But we can't stop 14 them legally. That's the issue. 15 MR. VILLARREAL: Well, then I just -- we 16 wasted our time coming up here and explaining our 17 concerns to you guys? 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think so. I 19 think what we're explaining -- trying to communicate to 20 you is we can only have certain freedoms and limitations 21 and we have to abide by what the State law -- the County 22 government is just a arm of the State government. We 23 can only do what we're allowed to do by state -- by 24 statute. We can't do anything else. 25 The Judge said it perfectly. We can't keep 99 1 somebody from using their property as long as they do it 2 legally. And that's -- that's another beauty of the 3 Hill Country. And it's another beauty of not being in 4 the City. Okay. Because it's not too restrictive. But 5 there are restrictions on environment and health, 6 floodplain, and that kind of stuff. Those are the 7 things we can enforce. And so this development has met 8 the requirements as best we can tell. Okay. But they 9 must meet the requirement of State Law. 10 JUDGE KELLY: We will assure you that they 11 will meet the requirements. Now when this whole thing 12 started, there was an effort to try to enforce our old 13 trailer park regulations -- let's call it trailer park 14 regulations, that were much more restrictive. And we 15 had -- we got criticized, we got sued because what we 16 did is put a variance in place to comply with State Law 17 and they're complaining about we should have been 18 restricting more water, not -- to not be allowed to 19 drain off that property. 20 Now, as of today, I think everybody's back 21 on the same page as to what the law is, and that is zero 22 increase in the drainage. And that's what we're 23 enforcing. That's what we were trying to enforce when 24 we did the variance, that's what we're trying to enforce 25 when we approved the development plan, it's what we're 100 1 going to enforce when this is all over. And zero 2 increase in the drainage off that property. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And trying to enforce 4 that the sewer water from the septic system does not 5 contaminate Johnson Creek. 6 MR. VILLARREAL: That's what we're talking 7 about. And that's going to happen. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 9 MR. VILLARREAL: Every three to five years 10 Johnson Creek floods. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Villarreal -- 12 MR. VILLARREAL: And it's going to go over 13 there to that trailer park. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Dornak spoke just before 15 you did. 16 MR. VILLARREAL: Okay. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay? And we asked him about 18 the septic and he said it met the requirements. It 19 meets the requirements. If it meets the State 20 requirements, we can't do anymore about it. That's what 21 I'm telling you. We don't get to just go in and say, 22 hey, we don't like it so you gotta get rid of it or you 23 gotta do this or you gotta do that. We have to follow 24 the law. That's the problem. We don't like it either. 25 MR. VILLARREAL: Well, thank you for your 101 1 time. Appreciate it. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Thank for your time. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We really appreciate you 5 coming down. Let's take a five-minute break. Come back 6 at 10 minutes till. 7 (Recess.) 8 JUDGE KELLY: Come back to order. I think 9 we have one -- one last speaker on this that signed up. 10 MR. GORDON: Judge Kelly, thank you. 11 Members of the Court. I'll ask for a little bit more 12 than three minutes. Mr. Sorensen gave a great 13 presentation, touched on a lot of issues. I'd just like 14 the opportunity to respond, I -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: No. No, sir. We're -- 16 MR. GORDON: -- can't imagine I'll take 17 longer -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: -- not doing that. 19 MR. GORDON: We're here today not to try and 20 stop this development from taking place; we're here 21 today to ask the Court to strike a balance between the 22 interest of the property developer and the interest of 23 the public. The good outcome today is one in which both 24 sides leave a little bit unhappy. The developer is 25 unhappy because he's got to spend a little bit more 102 1 money improving his development. The neighboring 2 property owners are a little bit unhappy because it 3 still gets to move forward. But the public as a whole 4 is treated fairly. 5 Now, I heard this Court multiple times talk 6 about following the law. Following the law. Following 7 the law. I'd ask you to each open up your red binder. 8 The little folder you got there in front of you. On the 9 left side of that is a copy of the court order issued by 10 Judge Pattillo. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Which is being challenged by 12 the way. 13 MR. GORDON: Okay. Great. Hasn't happened 14 yet, as far as I know. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's in the works. 16 MR. GORDON: Okay. Well, it hasn't happened 17 yet. And -- and what's important on this court order, 18 the highlighted part, is when Judge Pattillo ordered the 19 County to void the variance and any permits that were 20 granted in whole or in part on that variance. 21 JUDGE KELLY: That are none granted on that 22 day. 23 MR. GORDON: Well, the laws that you guys 24 have in place right now, even if it's something you 25 think you need to change, even if it's something that 103 1 y'all think the current state regulations don't allow, 2 the variance that y'all granted turned into development 3 permits that happened in February. 4 JUDGE KELLY: No, it didn't. 5 MR. GORDON: Mr. Hastings -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: No, it didn't. 7 MR. GORDON: -- Mr. Hastings had just said 8 the development permit needs to be redrawn. 9 JUDGE KELLY: It does. 10 MR. GORDON: And that's because it doesn't 11 comply with your regulations, even ignoring the 12 variance. 13 JUDGE KELLY: It doesn't comply -- go ahead. 14 MR. GORDON: I -- I -- I'm -- I'm not trying 15 to engage in an argument. I really am not. I -- I'm 16 trying to present our position on this. And 17 Mr. Hastings has acknowledged that it doesn't comply 18 with your regulations because it doesn't. 19 The drainage that this property is supposed 20 to put off the property is more than y'all granted, even 21 ignoring the variance using your own subdivision 22 regulations. Part of the reason I think that is is 23 because what they're doing on the property is not 24 consistent with what they said they were going to do. 25 Nowhere in the drainage plan that was submitted to the 104 1 County, do they talk about changing the grade on the 2 property. 3 All the calculations, which were done and 4 submitted and purportedly reviewed by this office, were 5 based on the grade of the property as it existed before 6 the development occurred. Why is it that the changing 7 of the grade has taken place? The changing of the 8 entire process is not being reviewed by the County. 9 That is a significant departure from your 10 own rules and regulations, from the law. Why is it that 11 the subdivision of this property, which occurred in 12 March of this year, was not approved by the Court, but 13 was relied upon by the County in granting these septic 14 permits? 15 Every other subdivision that occurs in the 16 County has to go through this office. Has to be 17 approved by the members of this Court. That was ignored 18 as well. There is a balance that can be found. You 19 guys have the opportunity to enforce your regulations. 20 I would ask, I would plead, please take a 21 second look at this development. Please strike that 22 balance and do something the entire County can be proud 23 of. Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make one 25 comment. This is not a subdivision. It doesn't come 105 1 under our subdivision rules and regulations. 2 MR. GORDON: Which -- which part? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This development. 4 MR. GORDON: Well, I've got a document in 5 this red book filed in March of this year where he 6 subdivides this property into four different parcels. 7 It looks like a subdivision. It says subdivide. It 8 smells like a subdivision. The County relied upon it in 9 granting four separate septic permits to each of these 10 four parcels. I would argue that's a subdivision. 11 And, you know, it's -- it's the relaxation 12 of the rules. It's the perception that certain people 13 have to follow the rules and other people get that 14 rubber stamp. And I don't think there's anybody up here 15 that's doing this on purpose. I don't think Charlie is 16 doing this on purpose. I think that in September when 17 the variance was presented we didn't hear anything about 18 that provision that Mr. Sorensen talked about. 19 In February when the development plan was 20 approved, nobody talked about that. Ten days ago during 21 the Court hearing, nobody talked about it. But it may 22 be what y'all need to do. And maybe y'all need to 23 change your regulations. I'm talking about the 24 regulations that are in place. And the fact is, the 25 developer is not complying with those regulations and 106 1 nobody seems to care. 2 People are ordered by the Court to prevent 3 these permits from taking place and Mr. Hastings just 4 said the plan needs to be changed. They need to be 5 changed because it's not in compliance with the law. 6 Yet every day last week development continued. 7 Called Mr. Sorensen. No responsibility. 8 The development continues. I sent a copy of the order 9 to Mr. Mundahl, the development continues. You don't 10 have to choose between one or the other here. Y'all 11 have the ability to impose reasonable drainage 12 requirements that would help improve the water quality, 13 which I know is so important in this community. I 14 understand that. And -- and I have advised my clients 15 on what y'all can and can't do. 16 I recognize you can't prevent a manufactured 17 home park from going in, but you don't have to rubber 18 stamp, you don't have to look the other way if that 19 development doesn't comply with your own regulations. 20 JUDGE KELLY: What's been rubber stamped? 21 MR. GORDON: How -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: In your opinion? 23 MR. GORDON: -- how -- the drainage. How -- 24 how did that drainage plan that exceeded the variance 25 that was granted, that exceeded the old subdivision 107 1 regulation get approved? 2 JUDGE KELLY: I think it was a mistake. 3 MR. GORDON: Maybe it was a mistake. The 4 work continued all last week. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Is that a rubber stamp? A 6 mistake? 7 MR. GORDON: The septic -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: And it's something that needs 9 to be corrected? 10 MR. GORDON: Sure. A second -- to answer 11 your question, the second rubber stamp is the 12 subdivision that occurred in March of this year. 13 JUDGE KELLY: I don't remember that. 14 MR. GORDON: You don't remember it because 15 you all never saw it. 16 JUDGE KELLY: I -- I know nothing about 17 that. 18 MR. GORDON: Correct. Because you all never 19 saw it. And in the absence of that subdivision 20 approval, those septic permits could never have been 21 issued. 22 JUDGE KELLY: I -- I beg to differ with you 23 on that. Because I think what we're talking about is 24 the difference between the generic meaning of the word 25 subdivision versus what we're talking about in terms of 108 1 subdivision -- real estate subdivisions. That's one 2 tract of property. I don't know what he's done to cut 3 it up. But it's -- it's a mobile -- the whole thing is 4 under the Manufactured Housing Rental Community 5 Regulation. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Correct. 7 MR. GORDON: And -- and it was when y'all 8 approved it in February. But one month later he went 9 and subdivided and chopped it up into four parcels and 10 used that chopping to get the numbers of gallons per day 11 that allowed the County to regulate the septic system 12 instead of TCEQ. In the absence of that subdivision, 13 he's going to TCEQ to get a septic permit; not the 14 County. 15 And y'all may not know about this because it 16 never came up. That's why I put a copy of this in that 17 red folder. It's on the right side. There's only three 18 documents in here. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, just like last week 20 we're going to look into it and see what's going on. 21 MR. GORDON: And I appreciate that, Judge. 22 You know, again, we're -- we're back in front of the 23 Court tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I'll see you there. 25 MR. GORDON: Well, we're -- we're going to 109 1 be on Zoom. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'll be there. 3 MR. GORDON: We'll see you there. I -- I -- 4 we're not here to pick a fight, Judge. You talked about 5 your permanent injunction that you got against a 6 neighbor for pushing water onto your property. And I 7 imagine that's the exact same provision that you heard 8 Glenna Heavin talk about. 9 And, of course, that is our next option. We 10 believe, though, that if y'all, the Commissioners' 11 Court, through your agents and the engineering office 12 and the attorneys office, do what you've been talking 13 about all day today and follow the law, then you'll tell 14 those folks out there to stop until they submit a plan 15 that complies with the regulations. Until they submit a 16 plan that's been properly subdivided, according to your 17 own regulations. That may take a week. Maybe you all 18 may knock that out next week with no issue whatsoever. 19 I -- I don't believe that you all have to 20 make the decision with one side or the other. You know, 21 if you -- if you do exactly what you've been talking 22 about all day today and follow the law, then somebody 23 should go out there today and tell them they need to 24 stop development until they get their revised plan 25 approved. That brings the drainage down to what y'all 110 1 say is the requirement. Until they get their 2 subdivision that occurred in March approved, which was 3 relied upon to get the four septic field permits issued 4 by this County. 5 It may be that y'all ultimately do all of 6 that, but it hasn't happened yet, and I'm just asking 7 y'all, said the same thing last week, measure twice and 8 cut once. Mistakes happen. I -- I recognize that. 9 Again, I -- I don't think there's anything nefarious 10 here. But y'all have an opportunity recognizing that 11 that mistake did take place, to do the right thing. 12 Measure twice, cut once. I'd ask y'all to please do 13 that. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Gordon. 15 MR. GORDON: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I ask the 18 County Attorney a couple questions? 19 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 20 MR. GORDON: I -- I have one other issue. 21 Here's a flash drive that I submitted to the clerk into 22 the record which contains a hundred plus photos, 23 including a video -- and a six minute video. I -- I 24 would urge, respectfully, that each of you take six 25 minutes out of your day today and watch that video. 111 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 2 MR. GORDON: That video will help you 3 understand what it is that the neighbors are saying and 4 help you understand the opportunity that exists -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: We -- we take judicial notice 6 of it. We're -- 7 MR. GORDON: -- for y'all to mitigate that. 8 JUDGE KELLY: -- we're -- thank you. 9 MR. GORDON: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're really more for 11 they're general questions for the County Attorney or -- 12 MRS. STEBBINS: Jason is up -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I guess the questions 14 I have -- it's going back to a lot of the comments. I 15 want to make it clear as to what authority the Court 16 has. One person mentioned that there were violations of 17 the Texas Water Code. 18 MR. SORENSEN: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does this Court have 20 jurisdiction over the Water Code? 21 MR. SORENSEN: Without getting into what we 22 would talk about in Executive -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MR. SORENSEN: -- that's not something that 25 would come before this Court. 112 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Do we have the 2 authority to change -- do we -- well, under our 3 floodplain retention order, prevention order, we are -- 4 we are required to follow FEMA'S rules and guidelines 5 and maps; is that correct? We have no authority to 6 change their map without their approval? 7 MR. SORENSEN: Well, we can ask for them to 8 -- to redo the flood map, but that's a process that -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But it exists? 10 MR. SORENSEN: It -- it does. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a process, but we 12 don't have authority to unilaterally make a change to 13 the FEMA maps. 14 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if -- our rules 16 would pretty much mirror State Law for the most part, 17 and when they're -- where we have some errors, it looks 18 like, State Law trumps our rules. But if someone, a 19 developer submits planning material from licensed people 20 that follow those rules, do we have any discretion on 21 approving those? 22 MR. SORENSEN: Correct. The County Engineer 23 can only approve or reject. He doesn't have the 24 authority to alter. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this Court -- if 113 1 it's something administratively complete we have to 2 approve, we have no authority? 3 MR. SORENSEN: Well, and -- and -- I can't 4 remember if I hit on this or not. Charlie has been 5 bringing those to you all as a courtesy to let you know 6 what's going on in precincts and for the public to know 7 what's going on in the County. Statutorily, y'all are 8 not involved in the approval or disapproval of the 9 development plans. 10 JUDGE KELLY: He is the authorized 11 designated representative of the County -- 12 MR. SORENSEN: By the statute and our -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: -- as the County Engineer. 14 MR. SORENSEN: -- local rules. Exactly. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure 17 that -- so the public understood what authority we have, 18 which is pretty -- not a lot in a lot of the things 19 we're talking about, and like -- and I'll just give this 20 one, Aubrey Henderson made some comments. I agree with 21 a lot of what Aubrey Henderson said. That's why -- 22 because he and I have talked a lot. 23 I think that if we get a 1932 or a '57 24 flood -- get a '56 flood again, there's going to be a 25 lot of problems in the County. But we have no authority 114 1 on this Court to do that, to change. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. And -- and 3 don't forget, it doesn't say that we're not going to 4 have a flood that will do everything everybody said. 5 There's a one percent probability, okay, we won't. 6 Okay. I mean there's one percent probability we will. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We will. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: One chance in a hundred 9 it's going to happen. Ken Stoepel Ford is going to 10 flood, like one percent. It doesn't say zero, But says 11 there is a probability. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the issue is we have 13 no authority to change that. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. That's what it is. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the issue, that 17 we have to follow the flood prevention order and FEMA. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's -- that's why 19 we're sympathetic, but our hands are tied. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Was the 2002 flood a 500-year 21 flood? I don't believe it was a 100-year flood. 22 MR. HASTINGS: The 2002 flood -- it depended 23 on where you were. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where you were, right? 25 MR. HASTINGS: If you were on -- on Third 115 1 Creek, it was bigger than a thousand year event. If you 2 were on Town Creek, it was a 100-year event on the dot. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 4 MR. HASTINGS: And if you were up in Hunt, I 5 -- I don't know what they got up there. I don't think 6 they got -- the storm was focused over here, kind of 7 north of I-10 and 16. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- I drove to Bandera 9 to watch the Medina River flow over 173. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 11 MR. HASTINGS: But the -- I believe that the 12 storms that Mr. Henderson was referring to were much 13 bigger than a hundred year event. The floodplain maps 14 and what we require only goes up to the -- what is 15 called a hundred year event. That's -- that's what it's 16 been called throughout the years. It's really a one 17 percent chance that it will be equal or exceeded on any 18 given date -- 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 21 MR. HASTINGS: -- that we could get that 22 same storm. You can have two of those storms back to 23 back. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In the same year. 25 Right. Right. 116 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, let's talk about 2 what we have right now. The current project, as it 3 stands, would likely from this last -- from what I -- if 4 what I'm hearing is correct, would be under water right 5 now. Is that correct? 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Charlie, why don't you 7 get up there. 8 MR. HASTINGS: I'm sorry. So the question 9 is the -- 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The question is -- 11 MR. HASTINGS: -- Phase 1 would be under 12 water in a hundred year event right now? 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. No. Right now. 14 After an inch and a half of rain is what I heard, that 15 everyplace where they're going to build is already under 16 water right now. Did I not hear that correctly? 17 MR. HASTINGS: I heard that, too. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 19 MR. HASTINGS: I heard that it was a crop 20 field and that there were some type of berms at the 21 bottom that would cause it to retain water. And my 22 understanding is that -- 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Terrace. 24 MR. HASTINGS: -- maybe those terraces have 25 been knocked down. I don't have the historical 117 1 knowledge that he has. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm not talking about 3 history, I'm talking about right now. 4 MR. HASTINGS: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So right now, what -- 6 what we got with an inch and a half of rain the other 7 day would put this current project under water. That's 8 what I thought I heard from several of the people that 9 commented. 10 MR. HASTINGS: I think I heard the same. I 11 think I heard that there's still fences that are around 12 there that are trying to protect all the runoff and that 13 also had an affect on that. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What I want to 15 establish is, is the water that's standing or was 16 standing below where they're going to build, or where 17 they're going to build? 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Where they're going to 19 build. 20 MR. HASTINGS: It's where they're building. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So that would 22 need -- now you'd be foolish to build there now. But we 23 can't tell them they can't build there now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Because but it was 25 held because of the silt fencing, which was doing its 118 1 job to stop the -- so I think -- it's not the -- you 2 have to look at it after -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that. I'm 4 not -- I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about 5 how much -- after an inch and a half of rain, am I going 6 to continue -- if I was in the middle of a project right 7 now and it's under water and I have to wait to do 8 anymore dirt work or anything until the water recedes, 9 I'm going to probably rethink my program. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. But it hasn't -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's under construction. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I -- I get that. Are 13 you not -- are you not understanding what I'm saying? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see -- I hear what 15 you're saying. But if I build a house -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and I dig out the 18 foundation and it rains and the water fills up to it, 19 that doesn't mean I'm not going to build the house 20 because it's under construction. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, I -- I get that. 22 But this is not -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the same -- same 24 thing. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Something with the 119 1 foundation. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same thing. They're 3 building. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: These are houses that 5 are above the ground. So I'm just trying to establish 6 whether or not the developer -- whether for even to 7 build there in the same spot or to move it up the hill a 8 little bit. 9 MR. HASTINGS: That's -- that's up to his 10 design engineer. It really is. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Now, as far as 12 the County is concerned then -- 13 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- whether he builds in 15 the water is not up to us. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Our hands are tied. 17 MR. HASTINGS: That's his purview. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Three -- there are 20 three things. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But -- but -- well, let 22 me finish, Tom. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But changing the amount 25 of runoff has apparently already happened from what we 120 1 heard today. Or the direction, rather, of where the 2 water's running. 3 MR. HASTINGS: It's -- when a project is not 4 complete -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I know. I get that. 6 MR. HASTINGS: -- it's -- it's in the middle 7 of construction. I know that was also stated. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So what -- where is he 9 at with this? Do you -- does -- does anybody here know 10 where we're at with -- 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I heard roughly 50 12 percent. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to probably go 14 into Executive Session is what I think. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, okay. All right. 16 Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's -- there's 18 three things. The floodplain that Charlie's talking 19 about. They're above -- they're outside the floodplain, 20 so they can -- they can build there. The temporary silt 21 fences probably caused some flooding exacerbation. 22 Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Number two is, 25 what I heard is more water is coming off of that area, 121 1 okay, than was before, okay, and is coming off at a 2 different location. Now both of those things are not 3 good. 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And if I could for just a 5 second. On paper we can say zero percent all day, but 6 can you guys hold them to fixing that? And that's -- 7 that's kind of what we want to do. 8 JUDGE KELLY: If that completes the project. 9 We're in the middle of something again. 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, but so far it 11 doesn't look good, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, their -- their 13 plans should show that it doesn't exceed the amount of 14 water coming off, or it doesn't change the location it 15 comes off. Their plans should show that. 16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And they don't. Their 17 plans show an increase in water. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So until it's completed 20 though, and what Commissioner Letz was talking about, 21 you're in the middle of a project and that water is 22 going to flow a different direction until it's completed 23 and so you can't give the final -- 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Right. But at the end of 25 the day, when it's completed, if I go out there and have 122 1 another, you know, river the same, you know -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Then you have a civil 3 lawsuit. 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Don't do that to me. I 5 don't want a -- I don't want a civil lawsuit. I 6 don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That -- there's no 8 other -- 9 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But do your job to hold 10 them to it. Why don't -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. We have to hold the 12 engineers accountable. 13 MR. GORDON: Well, so have you all conducted 14 an inspection of the property, which is fully within 15 your power. It's written in your -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to go -- 17 MR. GORDON: -- regulations. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- into Executive -- 19 MR. GORDON: I suspect that if you do an 20 inspection on the property, you'll see that what they 21 were doing on the ground is different from the plans 22 that this Court approved. And that is a big deal. 23 That is significant and y'all should be 24 concerned about that. If the -- if -- if what they're 25 doing on the ground is exactly what they said they'd do, 123 1 by golly, we lose. 2 MR. GORDON: We take our ball, we go home. 3 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We're good. 4 MR. GORDON: But they are changing the grade 5 of that property in a way that is wholly inconsistent 6 with what they told Charlie they were going to do. 7 Charlie just acknowledged it. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So it -- so it's 9 inconsistent with the drawn plan? 10 MR. GORDON: That's right. 11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well -- 13 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think Charlie -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: Don't put words in my mouth. 15 MR. GORDON: Excuse me. Charlie did say the 16 plan needed to be changed. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: He wasn't talking about what 19 you're talking about. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to go to 21 Executive Session if we're going to discuss options. 22 JUDGE KELLY: (Gavel Bang) Let's come to 23 order. Commissioner Letz, you may proceed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think we need to 25 go into Executive Session. 124 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean that's -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: We've got one more item on the 4 agenda. We've got some bills to pay. We've got a few 5 other things we need to do before we go into Executive 6 Session. 7 Is there anything -- any more that you want 8 talk about on this topic? 9 Okay. Then we'll move on to the next agenda 10 item, which is 1.4. I know Miss Lantz is waiting 11 outside patiently. 12 This is to consider, discuss and take 13 appropriate action to rescind Court Order No. 38171 in 14 order to reset a public hearing for August 17, 2020 at 15 10:00 a.m., to be held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, 16 Kerr County Courthouse, 700 Main Street, Kerrville, 17 Texas, for the purpose of presenting the Kerr County 18 District Court Records and Archive Plan for Fiscal Year 19 2020-2021. Miss Lantz. 20 MS. LANTZ: I just needed to change the 21 date. I had incorrectly put the wrong date on the other 22 Court Order, so I'm just requesting that Order be 23 rescinded with the new date. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move for approval to 25 reset the date as submitted in this item. 125 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 4 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 5 approve the new date for considering the Kerr County 6 District Court Records and Archive Plan in a public 7 meeting. Any other discussion? All those in favor 8 raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. Thank you. 9 MISS LETZ: Thank you. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Approval Agenda. Pay bills. 11 MR. ROBLES: Good morning. For Kerr County 12 we have $76,422.99. The Airport, $31,959.50. Fund 95, 13 which is the 198th DA Forfeiture, $71.61. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move we pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 17 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 18 pay the bills as presented. Any further discussion? 19 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 20 Budget amendments. I saw a couple of those. 21 MR. ROBLES: Yes. We have three today. 22 They're all line item transfers in their respective 23 departments. One for CPS, non-departmental, and 198th 24 District Court. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 126 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 3 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 4 approve the budget amendments as presented. Any 5 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, 6 five zero. 7 Late bills. 8 MR. ROBLES: We have one for Fund 45, the 9 District Clerk revolving and spending account for 10 $500.00. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 14 Commissioner Harris, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 15 approve the lat bill as presented. Any discussion? 16 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 17 Monthly reports. 18 MRS. DOWDY: I have none. 19 JUDGE KELLY: And court orders? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. We have court 21 orders from the meeting on the 13th, I believe. And 22 those are Court Orders 38178 through 38181. And then 23 from -- on the 20th of July, 38182 through 38202. And 24 then from the 27th of July, 38182 through 38202. I move 25 we approve all of those court orders respectively. 127 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 3 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 4 approve the Court Orders as presented. Any discussion? 5 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 6 Information agenda. Status reports from 7 Department Heads. 8 3.2 status reports from Elected Officials. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You got some. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, I'm sorry. Shane. 11 MR. EVANS: No problem. This is going to be 12 on the -- just giving you all an update on our fire 13 panel. Our contractors worked on it. He found out that 14 we -- we've been having problems with -- when you hit 15 silence, the strobes and the horns go off. The horns 16 are supposed to go off and the strobes are supposed to 17 stay on; however, there's no state ruling that says -- 18 or a code that that has to do that. 19 So what will happen is we'll have the -- the 20 yellow tag taken off, and our fire panel will be back to 21 normal. The -- the City can't enforce that because they 22 don't have the code on that right now either. But they 23 will adopt one as soon as they can, where when you push 24 silent the strobes stay on. And they can do that. 25 So he's going to let it go, no problem. But 128 1 what will happen next is when we do a remodel, he's 2 going to -- they're going -- because that Code will be 3 in place, we will have to upgrade everything then and 4 there, plus you know, to say the -- the remodel is 5 $10,000.00, plus the cost of upgrading and getting all 6 the horns and strobes installed in the building right 7 that needs to be. 8 Because right now, we have four to five 9 different horns and strobes in the building, and when 10 they do that upgrade, they all have to be compatible and 11 they all have to be pretty much all the same kind of 12 strobes and horns. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How many are in the 14 building? 15 MR. EVANS: 53. That's all three floors, 16 so -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Do you have a unit cost 18 on them? 19 MR. EVANS: The unit cost, the high ball 20 figure that he quoted me without sitting down and -- and 21 going, you know, each and every one of them, was 22 $8,000.00 to go ahead and do that. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Oh, for everything? 24 MR. EVANS: Everything. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 129 1 MR. EVANS: So I was going to recommend -- I 2 was going to recommend that since we're already -- I 3 have the money in my budget, that we should go ahead and 4 take care of that now instead of waiting later, you 5 know, when we have a remodel, plus the $8,000 or 6 whatever it is, to get it done. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean if we're going to 9 -- or we need to be in compliance so when they do their 10 new Code provisions. So -- 11 MR. EVANS: Yeah, I mean we're not in 12 trouble now. It'll just -- if we ever do a remodel then 13 it's going to be required and then we've got whatever 14 the cost of the remodel and plus however much more it 15 is, you know, a year or two from now. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, let me ask this. 17 These upgrades, basically all you're talking about, are 18 they -- how new are they? Because if things get 19 upgraded again and again and again, so is this like 20 state of the art, up to this minute, or is this 21 something we're waiting on a revision in the next, you 22 know, 18 months? Do you understand the question? 23 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. I mean, there will be 24 up-to-date equipment. What is in here now is probably 25 15 to 20 years old in some cases, as far as the horns 130 1 and strobes. And the real key thing is they're all 2 different, you know, different manufacturers. And for 3 whatever reason, a lot of fire panels -- when you have 4 different devices or different -- they -- it won't 5 register at the panel like it should. I mean, it works 6 and, you know, if there's smoke in the building it's 7 going to set the alarms off. 8 The Fire Marshal's point that he didn't 9 really like was that when you hit silence, the horns and 10 the strobes go off. And what he would like is when you 11 -- when you hit silence, the strobes stay on and, yeah, 12 there's still a problem but we hadn't found what it is 13 yet, you know, and still there's some warning that 14 there's still a problem. 15 I mean, it's the same way at the jail right 16 now. When you hit silence, the horns go off so you 17 don't hear all that racket, but the -- the strobes are 18 on, the bright lights, and still the -- you know, just 19 letting people know there's a problem still. That's 20 what the Fire Marshal would like to see but he can't 21 enforce that because there's no Code on that to enforce 22 it. 23 So -- which they, you know, very soon too 24 they can, they're going to adopt a new Code where it's 25 like that. But we're fine right now until we do a 131 1 remodel and then we'll have to upgrade. 2 But instead of waiting until then when I 3 have the money now, we should -- I was thinking maybe we 4 should go ahead and do that. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I would think so. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only other 7 issue I'd say that we ran into when we did the jail, 8 especially with different sounding sirens and different 9 types of strobes, is there was a study out of -- I think 10 it was Hermann's Hospital in Houston -- that those 11 differences can make people go into seizures that are 12 prone for seizures, such as epilepsy and stuff like 13 that. And that's why we had to upgrade everything to 14 get everything that sounds alike and looks alike. And I 15 think that should be taken into consideration. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 17 MR. EVANS: That's where we're -- where 18 we're at on that. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Sounds good. 20 MR. EVANS: Just a quick update on the 21 recycle trailers. For this month alone, we're up like 22 10,000 pounds. Where normally we're running anywhere 23 from 12 to 16 thousand pounds of recycle a month, this 24 month -- or for the month of July we had 26,204 pounds 25 of -- and the majority of that was 19,360 pounds at Hays 132 1 Street or at the shop. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was all Amazon 3 boxes, wasn't it? 4 (Laughter.) 5 MR. EVANS: There was a lot of boxes. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: A lot of boxes. 7 MR. EVANS: Yeah. There's pretty much a 8 steady stream there. And the Hays Street location, 9 we're having to empty that daily without fail. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Shane, so the recycle 11 event was canceled in the spring, correct? 12 MR. EVANS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And is it going to be 14 cancelled in the fall? I've had a lot of people call 15 wanting to know when they're going to start up to 16 recycle. 17 MR. EVANS: I haven't heard that. I 18 think -- 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It was intended for 20 the fall but they haven't set an official date. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- can you get 22 with the City? Don't we coordinate with the City on 23 that? 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Coordinate with the City 133 1 and see if we can get that date and let the public know 2 when that's going to be and if -- or and/or if we're 3 going to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And encourage -- and 5 encourage them to have one. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And encourage them that 7 we need to do it. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, we need to have 9 one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a hazardous waste 11 only. 12 MR. EVANS: Yeah. And that's usually held 13 at the Event Center. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: At the Event Center 15 and -- 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And people just drive 17 through so it -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Drive through and drop 19 it off. It goes quick but I know the one in the spring 20 was cancelled and the -- this one would be good if we 21 could get it off. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other thing 23 Shane hadn't brought up but I think needs to, is he did 24 get prices on moving that generator and hooking it up. 25 And they are way, way above budget. If you take the 134 1 generator that we have out there, the old one, which he 2 does have somebody coming up to start it because it 3 hadn't been started since it was disconnected and all 4 that. Start it and run it and make sure it's still 5 okay. That's a 250 kW generator. It would run this 6 entire courthouse. And I think the ballpark was about 7 48,000 to move it and hook it up over here. 8 Now, they also had another one which was a 9 50 kW, which would only be enough to maybe run IT at the 10 courthouse brand new for about 46,000. But either way, 11 I only have 20,000 in the budget this year for doing any 12 of that kind of stuff. We didn't think it would be 13 anywhere near that. So I don't know -- 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, as -- as I 15 recall, I read all the -- I read the numbers, and it was 16 2000 more, I think, roughly -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- to use the one you 19 have that we already have in-house. I have a lot more 20 questions about that, why that, but that would run 21 everything. That would run the whole courthouse, right? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's worth the extra 24 money -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it still -- 135 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- if it runs. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- it hasn't been 3 started in three years and the only thing I think they 4 told Shane was, you gotta worry about the seals on that, 5 you know, and make sure they're still good. But I still 6 think Shane needs some kind of guidance. You know, like 7 I said, there's 20 in my budget. Is this -- 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Get -- get some more 9 bids. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- something we're 11 going to talk about this afternoon? 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: IT has -- IT has money. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Get more bids. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And is it something we 16 need to put off and look at for next year's budget? 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't think so. 18 MR. EVANS: Judge, the prices that we got 19 from that different contractor, that didn't include the 20 concrete pad it has to be set on, and then it's also 21 moving it from the jail to the courthouse. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 23 MR. EVANS: So that's an extra -- extra 24 added cost. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So get more bids. 136 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What's the dimensions 2 of that thing, ballpark? 3 MR. EVANS: It's roughly six feet long and, 4 what, about ten feet long? 5 MR. MOTHERAL: It's 12 by 4. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: 12 by 4. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It falls under what we 8 would have to take bids for, but we could get plenty of 9 people to bid on it. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, but it will 11 exceed the money we have. So independent of that -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Between what -- what 13 Bruce's Department has and what Rusty's talking about, I 14 think we -- we have that covered. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But we might check out 16 a few more sources. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But we probably could 18 ask -- yeah, get some better pricing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the key is -- is 20 the machine still -- I mean the machine when it's looked 21 at, the older one, make sure it's a good machine that 22 it's worth spending that kind of money to move and not 23 go with one that just runs IT. That would be my 24 thought. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. Good. 137 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But you're -- you're 2 talking about $2,000.00 difference so it really is -- 3 it's critical that that -- the one at the jail, the 4 generator at the jail be really -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Let's get it checked 7 out. 8 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. I'm in the process of 9 getting it -- since we hadn't used this particular 10 company in three years, we have to fill out a new credit 11 app, and in the process of getting that done. But the 12 baseline prices of doing a load test, they have to bring 13 the equipment to do a load test where it's not hooked up 14 to anything, and fuel tank, or fluids, filters, and that 15 load test is -- we're looking at right around $2600. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So that's 17 worth -- we need to do that. That way, if we decide to 18 not use it for whatever reason then we can sell it and 19 have -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you can -- you know 21 that everything has been checked out and -- 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But the -- the 24 difference in the you know, a brand new one, everybody 25 likes that, it's got a warranty and all that sort of 138 1 stuff. But this -- so everybody will know, you can run 2 the whole courthouse with one. You can run just one 3 department with the other. Which maintains our records 4 and keeps everything safe, which is the whole reason to 5 spend it in the first place. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So a lot of the other 7 reason was all the electronic doors and all that we're 8 talking about, which is all over the courthouse. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And if we -- yeah, 10 exactly. So I'd rather have one that runs the whole 11 courthouse personally. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you, Shane. 14 MR. EVANS: Thank you. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Been brought to my attention I 16 skipped 2.4 Auditor Reports. Did you have any, James? 17 MR. ROBLES: No, sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: I didn't think so. We got it 19 in the record. 20 3.3 Status Reports from Liaison 21 Commissioners. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Shane gave mine. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Then do we need another break? 139 1 Are we ready to go into Executive Session? 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I -- just a short one. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Five-minute break. 4 We'll start back at 11:30 and we're going into Executive 5 Session to discuss pending litigation and an update on 6 economic development. 7 (Recess). 8 (Executive Session.) 9 JUDGE KELLY: Court is back in session. It 10 is 11:59, and we have no action after executive session, 11 so Court is adjourned. 12 * * * * * * 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 140 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Special Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 18th day of August, A.D. 10 2020. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2021 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25