1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Special Session 5 Monday, November 16, 2020 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4(via phone) 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioner's Comments. 3 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 5 action to approve Thomson Reuters-West 5 Proflex 24-month contract to renew December 1, 2020 for Kerr County Law 6 Library, and have County Judge sign the same. 7 1.2 Canvass the Official Election Results for 6 8 the Special Election on November 3, 2020 to Legalize the Legal Sale of All Alcoholic 9 Beverages, including Mixed Beverages, for the District of Justice of the Peace 10 Precinct No. 2 as per TEC 67. 11 1.3 Canvass the Official Election Results for 9 the 2020 November General Election as per 12 TEC 67. 13 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 16 action to add IPAWS (Integrated Public 14 Alert Warning System) to our current CodeRed contract. 15 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 20 16 action regarding county policy regarding use of courthouse grounds and consequences 17 for violations. 18 1.6 Discuss Kerr County Veterans Day 20 celebration. 19 2.1 Pay Bills. 89 20 2.6 Court Orders. 90 21 *** Adjournment. 91 22 *** Reporter's Certificate. 92 23 * * * * * * 24 25 3 1 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioners' Court is now in 2 session. It is Monday, November the 16th, 2020, at 3 9:00 o'clock in the morning, and the Court is in 4 session. This is a special meeting. The first item on 5 the agenda is for everybody to turn off your cell phone. 6 The second item on the agenda is any public 7 input for a matter not on the agenda. Is there anyone 8 from the public who would like to address the Court? 9 There being none, then we'll go to 10 Commissioners' Comments. And we'll start with 11 Precinct 1. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't have anything 13 today. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 2. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, it's going to be 16 on the agenda but not specifically. But as we canvass 17 the votes, it's my understanding the County Attorney is 18 here and -- as soon as the votes are canvassed and the 19 Court order is issued, then alcoholic beverages can be 20 sold in Precinct 2. Is that correct? 21 MRS. STEBBINS: For those folks who are able 22 to -- 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Have a license, yeah, 24 right. Right. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 4 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Thank you for 2 that. And I think some people have already applied for 3 their license and perhaps have them. So that's good 4 news for Precinct 2. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thank you. 7 Okay. That's it. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 3. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just dry, dry, dry. 10 Hoping for some rain this weekend. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, we got two 12 hundredths. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than we did. 14 That's it. Nothing else, Judge. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Precinct 4. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Harris, any 17 comments? 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No, nothing going on 19 to speak of. We had a fundraiser for a young man 20 yesterday at Ingram Park. I'm out of town. I have not 21 heard how that went, but that's about all I got. Need a 22 little rain. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I see we got Dub Thomas 25 in the courtroom. And on behalf of the County, I do 5 1 want to advise everyone -- my glasses are fogging up so 2 I'll take them off -- that on November the 5th, we had 3 86 active cases, COVID cases. As of last Friday, we 4 have 136. I haven't seen the weekend count. But that's 5 a 58 percent increase in one week. And that is cause 6 for concern. And you can see I have a mask on today. 7 We are socially distanced in the courtroom and I'm doing 8 this mainly to emphasize the importance of wearing the 9 mask. Especially during this spike. 10 I visited with our Emergency Management 11 Coordinator, Dub Thomas, who's here in the courtroom. 12 We're expecting another spike after the holidays, 13 Thanksgiving holiday. Probably another spike during the 14 Christmas party season. And another one after the 15 Christmas and New Year's holidays. So we'll probably 16 have at least two or three spikes ahead of where we are 17 today. So the quicker we can get a handle on this and 18 manage it, the better. 19 So with that, let's begin the agenda. Item 20 1.1 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 21 approve Thomson Reuters-West Proflex 24-month contract 22 to renew December 1, 2020 for Kerr County Law Library, 23 and have the County Judge sign the same. Dawn Lantz. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't see Dawn, 25 Judge. 6 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This is kind of 2 routine, isn't it? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a routine 4 contract. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So I would move for 6 approval. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: And I've reviewed it. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: So motion's been made by 11 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 12 approve renewing of the Thomson Reuters-West Proflex 13 contract. The contract has been reviewed by the County 14 Attorney. Is there any further discussion? Those in 15 favor? Abstain? I'm abstaining. 16 1.2 -- and that's because I don't have 17 Westlaw. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Don't have what? 19 JUDGE KELLY: Westlaw. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Oh. 21 JUDGE KELLY: 1.2 canvass the official 22 election results for the special election on November 3, 23 2020, and legalize the legal sale of all alcoholic 24 beverages, including mixed beverages, for the District 25 of Justice of the Peace Precinct 2, as per TEC 7 1 Section 67. Nadene Alford and Bob Reeves. 2 MR. REEVES: Good morning, gentlemen. I 3 have passed out the canvass and the final results, or 4 official results for the local option election, J.P. 5 Precinct 2. They are before you. I will leave it up to 6 the Court's discretion if they'd like it read into the 7 record or ask the Clerk to copy this verbatim into the 8 order. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I think for purposes of the 10 record it would probably be good to go ahead and read it 11 into the record so that we do have an official record of 12 it. 13 MR. REEVES: That's perfectly okay. I'll 14 read this one, then I'll leave the second canvass with 15 the lengthy ones up to the Court. Voting for, 5,641. 16 Voting against, 1,226. Under votes, 480. Over 17 votes, 1. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Remind me what an over vote 19 is? 20 MR. REEVES: An over vote, they voted for 21 and against it. In simple terms. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Bob, did you say what 24 the issue was? Did you say that at first? I didn't 25 hear you. 8 1 MR. REEVES: Well, I'll state it again. I 2 did say. It's the local option election, J.P. Precinct 3 Number 2, for the sale of alcoholic beverages. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good deal. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And then we've got the 6 other one that we'll get to the Clerk to enter an order. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And we need -- 8 do we need to accept these or approve? 9 MR. REEVES: Nadene, it's approve, isn't it? 10 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 11 MR. REEVES: Approve that this is the 12 official canvass, so please approve. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 14 we approve the official canvass of the local option 15 elections Justice of the Peace Precinct 2 proposition. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: A motion's been made by 18 Commissioner Letz, second by Commissioner Moser to 19 approve the canvass of the local option election for 20 liquor in Precinct 2 -- the sale of liquor in 21 Precinct 2. Is there any other discussion? Those in 22 favor raise your hand. 3-0-1. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, Don's on the 24 line, isn't he? 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can you hear us? 9 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yay. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. It's 4-0-1. 4 Okay. The next item -- 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We have one voting no? 6 JUDGE KELLY: I'm abstaining. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, you're abstaining. 8 Okay. Good. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.3 canvass the official 10 election results for the 2020 November General Election 11 as per TEC 67. 12 MR. REEVES: Yes, sir. 13 Gentleman, before you are the official 14 results from the general election held on November 3rd, 15 2020. These are all of the races that were on the 16 ballot with the exception of, as I pointed out, you just 17 approved the canvass on the local option. Then any City 18 or school elections will be canvassed by their 19 appropriate authorities. So, in other words, these are 20 the results from the County, State and Federal 21 elections. I have given a copy to each one of you and 22 the Clerk of the Court has one. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move to accept the 24 canvass results. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 10 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or election results. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 4 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 5 approve the canvass of the general election voting 6 results. Any discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know it's time 8 consuming, but I think it's important that we have read 9 the final results of these other races. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: You're right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are you going to read 14 them? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll read them. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: President and Vice 18 President: Donald J. Trump and Michael R. Pence 19 received 20,879. 20 Joseph R. Bardon -- Biden and Kamala D. 21 Harris, 6,524. 22 Jo Jorgensen and Jeremy "Spike" Cohen, 283. 23 Howie Hawkins and Angela Walker, 51. 24 Abram Loeb and Jennifer Jairala, 1. 25 Brian Carroll and Amar Patel, 4. 11 1 Gloria LaRiva and Leonard Peltier, 2. 2 Jesse Cuellar and Jimmy Monreal, 0. 3 Kasey Wells and Rachel Wells, 1. 4 President R. Boddie and Eric C. Stoneham, 0. 5 Robert Morrow and Anne Beckett, 0. 6 Todd Cella and Tim Cella, 0. 7 And Tom Hefling and Andy Prior, 0. 8 United States Senator: 9 John Cornyn, 21,022. 10 Mary "MJ" Hegar, 5,946. 11 Kerry Douglas McKennon, 446. 12 David B. Collins, 28. 13 Ricardo Turullois-Bonilla, 1. 14 United States Representative District 21: 15 Chip Roy, 20,693. 16 Wendy R. Davis, 6,097. 17 Arthur Dibianca, 406. 18 And Tommy Wakely, 215. 19 Railroad Commissioner: 20 James "Jim" Wright, 20,497. 21 Chrysta Castaneda, 5,847. 22 Matt Sterett, 566. 23 Katija "Kat" Gruene, 279. 24 Chief Justice, Supreme Court. 25 Nathan Hecht, 20,622. 12 1 Amy Clark Meachum, 5,975. 2 Mark Ash, 589. 3 Justice, Supreme Court, Place No. 6 4 Unexpired Term: 5 Jane Bland, 21,139. 6 Kathy Cheng, 5,872. 7 Justice, Supreme Court, Place No. 7: 8 Jeff Boyd, 20,678. 9 Staci Williams, 5,872. 10 William Bryan Strange, 543. 11 Justice, Supreme Court, Place 8: 12 Brett Busby, 20,696. 13 Gisela D. Triana, 5,753. 14 Tom Oxford, 612. 15 Judge, Court of Criminal Appeals, Place No. 16 3: 17 Bert Richardson, 20,921. 18 Elizabeth Davis Frizell, 6,063. 19 Judge, Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 4: 20 Kevin Patrick Yeary, 20,996. 21 Tina Clinton, 5,939. 22 Judge, Court of Criminal Appeals, Place 9: 23 David Newell, 21,113. 24 Brandon Birmingham, 5,800. 25 Member State Board of Education, District 13 1 No. 5: 2 Lani Popp, 20,539. 3 Rebecca Bell Metereau, 5,642. 4 Stephanie Berlin, 829. 5 State Senator, District 24: 6 Dawn Buckingham, 21,171. 7 Clayton Tucker, 5,799. 8 State Representative, District No. 53: 9 Andrew Murr, 21,21,203. 10 Joe P. Herrera, 5,778. 11 Chief Justice, 4th Court of Appeals 12 District: 13 Renee Yanta, 20,707. 14 Rebeca Martinez, 6,095. 15 District Judge, 216th Judicial District: 16 Albert D. "Pat" Pattillo III, 22,957. 17 District Attorney, 198th Judicial District: 18 Stephen Harpold, 22,499. 19 District Attorney, 216th Judicial District: 20 Lucy Wilke, 22,749. 21 Sheriff: 22 Larry Leitha, 22,330. 23 Warren Funk, 3,361. 24 County Commissioner Precinct No. 1: 25 Harley David Belew, 5,426. 14 1 Konrad Wert, 1,101. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Good. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Question to Bob Reeves. 4 Were there any protests from the election? 5 MR. REEVES: Protests? 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Challenges? 7 JUDGE KELLY: Recount? 8 MR. REEVES: Not at the local level. They 9 were -- we were just informed about, oh, 45 minutes ago 10 that there will be a recount in the City of Ingram 11 election. The recount will be conducted by the City of 12 Ingram as they are the canvassing authority. We will be 13 present as we are the custodians of the ballots. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Another 15 question. Do we use Dominion Hardware? 16 MR. REEVES: No. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Thanks. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The State of Texas 19 does. 20 MR. REEVES: That's -- I'm not sure what 21 else is in the State of Texas. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Last comment. Thank 23 you, Nadene and all your crew. Great job. 24 MS. ALFORD: Thank you. 25 MR. REEVES: It's all to Nadene and my team, 15 1 and I'll tell you a story about some -- some hairy 2 things that we went through but we made it through. The 3 most stressful election I think Nadene has ever been 4 through. Time and effort. And I don't know how the -- 5 my staff did it, but they managed. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And how many separate 7 ballots were there? 8 MR. REEVES: 13. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: 13 separate ballots? 10 MS. ALFORD: Yeah, 13 or 14. 11 MR. REEVES: 13, 14. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good job. 13 MS. ALFORD: Thank you. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Did we approve this already? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. We need -- we need 16 to vote. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Do I have a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think I may have made 20 a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, he made a motion. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. I'll second 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I seconded it though. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 16 1 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew? 2 MRS. DOWDY: Yes. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Those in favor of 4 approving the general election canvass results, raise 5 your hand. Don? 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yay. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Five votes. 8 Next item on the agenda -- 9 MR. REEVES: Thank you, gentlemen. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Thank you. 12 JUDGE KELLY: -- is 1.4 consider, discuss 13 and take appropriate action to add IPAWS (Integrated 14 Public Alert Warning System) to our current CodeRed 15 contract. Dub Thomas. 16 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Judge. Good 17 morning, Commissioners. Like I -- the Judge just read, 18 IPAWS is the Integrated Public Alert Warning System 19 that's run by FEMA. And it's an umbrella for several 20 different types of communication systems that we can 21 use, along with our CodeRed, to notify folks when 22 they're here in Kerr County about a flood, fire, 23 whatever. 24 Maybe they don't have CodeRed. But this is 25 a nationwide system and we can use it here publicly for 17 1 us. It is free. And Kerr County has been blessed by 2 being with CodeRed for so long that we get a lot of 3 stuff like that free. And it doesn't change our 4 contract, so we will never have to bid on the -- it will 5 never change the cost of our contract as it stands. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Do we download the app 7 for IPAWS like we do for CodeRed? 8 MR. THOMAS: No. It will already be -- 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or -- no, no. Not an 10 app but to register -- or to -- 11 MR. THOMAS: No. It'll be automatically 12 added to my system. To the system that the County has. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 MR. THOMAS: And then it -- it goes out 15 through cell phones for emergency alert system, notices 16 for weather system as well. They're a national system 17 as well. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Does it -- so if 19 you're CodeRed you don't have to do anything different? 20 MR. THOMAS: You don't have to do a thing. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Good enough. 22 Thanks. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Will you be notified of 24 regional stuff, national stuff or -- I don't get what 25 you would be notified of. 18 1 MR. THOMAS: Well, this just -- we've been 2 trying to get a new Flood Warning System here. We 3 haven't been able to do it. So this is just another 4 method of being able to communicate emergencies or 5 disastrous type information to the public when they're 6 here, and they're not from here, they don't have 7 CodeRed. Maybe they've got some other system. But this 8 is a national system that CodeRed will have access to. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're still trying on 10 the flood warning. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'm trying to get 12 it -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I said we're still 14 trying on the flood warning? 15 MR. THOMAS: We're still trying. Yeah. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The easiest way, 17 Harley, to explain it is say you're traveling through 18 this area and we've had something happen here. It could 19 still notify you if we send it out. Because you're not 20 from here, you're not a CodeRed, you know, quote. But 21 because it's national it catches, you know, what they 22 had like years ago, they had a chemical truck flip over 23 in Kimble County, okay, it messes with the whole 24 interstate and everybody traveling through. It could 25 notify people traveling through. 19 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what helps. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So really what I'm kind 4 of trying to ask is, if there's a flood in Illinois, am 5 I going to get notified of that? 6 MR. THOMAS: No. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 8 MR. THOMAS: Absolutely not. You won't have 9 to go and help them. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's going to be 11 our -- it's going to be our area? 12 MR. THOMAS: It's just -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 MR. THOMAS: Yes. Only when I use it 15 locally. If I use CodeRed, then I'll be able to once 16 I've taken the webinar for it, but I'll -- it'll show me 17 how to access that -- the IPAWS system via CodeRed. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Did anybody make 19 a motion? I'll make a motion. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Motion's been made by 22 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Letz to 23 approve and add the IPAWS (Integrated Public Alert and 24 Warning System) to our current CodeRed contract. Is 25 there any other discussion? Those in favor raise your 20 1 hand. Five zero. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yay. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Dub. 4 MR. THOMAS: Thank you all. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I'm going to call item 1.5 and 6 1.6 together because they're related topic. Item 1.5 is 7 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 8 county policy regarding the use of the courthouse 9 grounds and consequences for violations. 10 And 1.6 is discuss Kerr County Veterans Day 11 celebration. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will tell you real 13 quick, Judge. The County Attorney has stepped down to 14 her office to get her copy of the policy on courthouse 15 square use. I don't know if you want to wait until she 16 gets back up here. 17 JUDGE KELLY: I think we can go ahead and 18 start with Marty's part of it, 1.6. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Before Marty speaks I'd 21 like to say something. Because Marty is going to talk 22 about some of the things she did on Veterans Day. And I 23 think we all support veterans, we have Veterans Service 24 Officers that the County has established to help 25 facilitate that. We -- 21 1 (Sheriff meeting people at door.) 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I'm waiting. Okay. 3 We -- I support the Patriots and their conservative 4 policies. And I support what we're doing in the County 5 for helping with COVID prevention and minimizing that. 6 And that's all good. 7 Things are not good is when we cause 8 confusion with the veterans of not knowing about events. 9 Veteran Service Officer didn't know about it. Liaison 10 Commissioner didn't know about it. It caused confusion, 11 and confusion is not a critical thing, but it's -- it's 12 not good, okay, and it's -- I think that we need to 13 think about that when we do things like this. 14 And I didn't know about it until after it 15 was over, okay. The Judge said something about it on 16 Wednesday morning about there may be an impromptu 17 gathering. But anyway, I think we need to work as a 18 community, together, to -- especially on a day when 19 we're honoring vets and working in an environment where 20 there's COVID-related stuff. 21 So that's -- that's what I want to say on 22 that. And I'll let Marty talk about what she did during 23 the -- during -- following that same day. 24 MS. MISTRETTA: Yes, sir. Previously 25 before COVID kicked off and we were going to do a bigger 22 1 event for veterans because of some of our veterans being 2 of vulnerable age, we decided not to do that. In lieu 3 of that, we had other events around Kerr County. We did 4 social distancing, wearing masks and things. We kind of 5 sent our vets that way. When anyone would call our 6 office, we just said we didn't have anything available. 7 One of the assisted living facilities in 8 town wanted to do something for the veterans, but they 9 were kind of unsure what do because they couldn't bring 10 them out in public. Of course, they didn't want to 11 expose them. So I said give me their names, branches of 12 service, and if they served in any sort of conflict and 13 I'm going to put something together for them. 14 And so I -- I did name tags, put their 15 branch of service on there, if they're Viet Nam vets, 16 and we provided these books for them that were free of 17 charge from the Governor's Office. That way, they can 18 celebrate. We had no contact with them. That way they 19 were able to still participate in Veterans Day and be 20 appreciated without being at risk. 21 And so that's kind of what we did this year. 22 Anyone that reached out to us, we tried to just include 23 veterans as much as we can without exposing them to 24 anything. Because that's our top priority. All we do 25 in our office is benefits for veterans. The atrocities 23 1 they dealt with while in service, the exposures they've 2 had, and so we would definitely not be the first ones 3 to, again, expose them to something if it's not 4 necessary. 5 And so this year we just kind of played it 6 safe and we weren't aware of what happened. I only 7 found out with my Assistant Jennifer after-the-fact and, 8 you know, it's been a surprise as well. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thanks for what you 10 did -- or what you did for them. 11 MS. MISTRETTA: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'd like to get the 13 record clear. When was it you came to us and presented 14 your proposal on how to handle the Veterans Day 15 celebration this year? Half a month ago? 16 MS. MISTRETTA: Yes, sir. It was a few 17 weeks before. And we said we just wanted to decorate 18 the courthouse. We didn't want to do anything, you 19 know, face to face given the situation and the short 20 amount of time and finances and kind of -- the COVID 21 count was up. 22 And so in our office personally, we are 23 taking a lot of heat for only doing phone interviews, 24 we're very short on doing face-to-face interviews. But 25 when we do, it's six feet. Everyone wears a mask. So 24 1 to have an event on top of everything else, just didn't 2 make sense to us this year. 3 JUDGE KELLY: But tell the public what your 4 recommendation to the Court was originally. 5 MS. MISTRETTA: Our recommendation was not 6 to have an event this year and simply just to decorate 7 the courthouse. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But she also identified 9 all the things that were planned at that time. That was 10 the -- that was the key thing. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. There were other 12 things going on. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and the reason for 15 these recommendations was to protect the safety and 16 health of the veterans. 17 MS. MISTRETTA: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion about 19 that? 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that was Marty's 21 determination. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was her decision to 24 make solely. And she decided not to have an event at 25 the courthouse. 25 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and we -- 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No. She brought that 3 to the Court. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She brought that to the 5 Court and her recommendation was not to do anything. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Came to identify all 7 the things that were planned. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And to let the veterans 9 know what else was going on. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And -- and asked if we 11 knew of anything else to let her know. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it was 14 Marty, I think it was the Court. 15 JUDGE KELLY: It was the Court. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It was the Court. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was her 18 recommendation, as the Judge said, and her -- you know, 19 she had basically -- well, she's the one that would have 20 run it if we had said, okay, we agree. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So the public knows what we're 23 talking about, I received a text on Tuesday -- let me 24 see if I can get my phone open here. I'll open it up 25 here in a minute. But I received a text on Tuesday 26 1 about noon, just going into the HEB tour when they took 2 us over there for the tour on last Tuesday, that the 3 Patriots wanted to do an impromptu gathering at the 4 courthouse. 5 And the policy, I believe, and I'm sure the 6 County Attorney's going to clarify this for us, is that 7 in order to have use of the courthouse grounds 8 officially, you have to come to Commissioners' Court and 9 get approval. 10 And I pointed out that that approval had not 11 been obtained. Also, when you have an outside gathering 12 of ten persons or more, the Governor's Order GA-32 13 requires that it be approved. If it's going to be more 14 than ten people, it's got to be approved by the County 15 Judge and Mayor. And I pointed that out. 16 And you'll know that I use -- I require a 17 COVID safety plan. And a COVID safety plan is to 18 encourage the use of masks, social distancing, to try to 19 protect the health of the participants in the gathering. 20 And they didn't have that either. 21 And I texted that back to the anonymous 22 number, the phone number that I had, and I heard no 23 response. Until I read a Facebook post by Roman Garcia 24 that says they're going to have an event at the 25 courthouse at 11:00. And it says face coverings are not 27 1 mandatory. 2 I actually had a committee meeting that 3 Wednesday morning. I was here at the courthouse. I 4 went out to observe the gathering. I'm going to say 5 there were probably at least 50, 60 people. I don't 6 know exactly. I did see a couple masks, maybe two or 7 three. But that's about all. 8 And with the active COVID rates jumping 58 9 percent in a short period of time, I don't think that 10 was prudent and I don't think that that was an 11 authorized gathering. 12 By happenstance, I bumped into Jerry Wolff 13 at Buzzy's getting some barbecue afterwards, and we 14 talked about it. And I acknowledged that citizens have 15 the right to come on public grounds because this is the 16 courthouse. It's public ground. But they don't 17 necessarily have the right to gather without 18 Commissioners' Court approval, and certainly not to 19 gather during this COVID time without some sort of 20 safety plan in place. 21 And I advised him that I would put this on 22 the agenda. And the purpose that I put it on the 23 agenda, the 1.5 part, is to clarify so that we all know 24 what the policy is. And then to discuss what do we do 25 when people violate the policy. Right now, looks like 28 1 nothing is being enforced out there. Kind of chaos. 2 People do what they want to do, even if it's unsafe. 3 I think that was very -- I wanted to bring 4 that to the public's attention because I think that 5 gathering was unsafe and I think it was unwise. But I 6 am, as the sole veteran on this Court, I highly approve 7 of any support for veterans. 8 As Marty knows, it's near and dear to my 9 heart. 77 years ago this month my dad was sitting -- 10 was sleeping in a hammock in the Solomon Islands, where 11 he -- inaudible -- under fire. So this is near and dear 12 to my heart. But at the same time, we have to be 13 prudent. And we especially have to be prudent in the 14 times of COVID. 15 So what I'm really interested in is 16 initiating a discussion on how do we handle this, when 17 they don't come and get permission from the 18 Commissioners' Court, and when they don't meet the COVID 19 safety plan requirements, what do we do, just ignore it? 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The courthouse belongs 21 to the taxpayers. And we have a First Amendment right 22 to peaceably assemble. So that's where I stand on it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's give -- 24 Commissioner Harris, do you want to make a comment? 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, I'd like to. 29 1 And I think Commissioner Moser kind of summed it up at 2 the beginning when he said there was confusion and I 3 agree with that. I heard from a couple people and they 4 had thought and -- you know, they had thought that 5 because we were not under the Emergency Declaration with 6 the County anymore that they didn't have to come, and 7 that's wrong. And I told a couple people that no, they 8 need to still get approval because of the Governor's 9 Order for the safety during this virus period and what 10 have you. 11 But having said that, I was there. I mean, 12 when veterans are going to gather and what have you, and 13 many of them, you know, have walkers and what have you, 14 I showed up and -- and participated in it. Now, was it 15 the right way to do it? No. But I think it was the 16 right thing to do being Veterans Day. And I heard it -- 17 you know, since they started it as an impromptu and they 18 got word out to different ones, and it was kind of hard 19 to call it back in and say no, it's off after they found 20 out no, they hadn't gone through the proper channels. 21 So that's my two cents worth. 22 It was -- it was gone about the wrong way, 23 but it was all for a good reason. And that kind of sums 24 up what I have to say. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I was there, too. I 30 1 didn't think that it was unsafe or there was anything 2 wrong with what happened. The people that wanted to 3 wear masks wore masks. There was no event there. We 4 didn't have an official County event. The citizens of 5 Kerr County decided some of them to put on an impromptu 6 event at a place that wasn't being used. I don't see 7 what the harm is. 8 But I don't know what the policy -- or I 9 don't remember all of the policy that we came up with. 10 I remember the discussion about food trucks and certain 11 events, and for profit and non-profit and all of that, 12 but I don't remember all the particular on use of the -- 13 regardless of whether there's an emergency being called 14 or not, we have a policy for the courthouse. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Did you only -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, I would like to 17 hear -- 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- know about it 19 through -- did you only know about it through Facebook? 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I knew about it through 21 word of mouth. And so I -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Somebody called or 23 something? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, just through 25 people. 31 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah, they didn't call 2 all the Commissioners. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. But the idea of 4 that, I think -- I feel like I'm hearing that feathers 5 got ruffled because people weren't informed. But again, 6 you got an empty spot out there at the courthouse that 7 we hadn't officially used, and it was -- believe me, I 8 was there, it was impromptu. And -- but it was a good 9 event. Heartfelt. Veterans were there. A veteran 10 spoke, and there was some patriotic song and everybody 11 went home. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't see 13 how it was impromptu if it was planned. Now I'm not -- 14 I'm not against it happening. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it was, let's say 16 spur of the moment rather than impromptu. Impromptu 17 would imply that it happened that day. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was -- it was -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Planned in some -- a 21 number of people in the community were obviously 22 invited. I didn't hear anything about it, and I was out 23 of town that day so it wouldn't have made a difference. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I didn't hear anything. 25 Veterans Service Officer didn't hear anything. 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and I -- that's a 2 different -- I mean I think that the issue to the Judge 3 isn't really that event as much as it is about the 4 policy, is what the agenda item is. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's the willful 6 deliberate defiance and the disregard of policy, 7 disregard of the Governor's order when -- when advised 8 that you need to have a COVID safety plan and completely 9 disregard it. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Most weekends there's 11 somebody on the corner out there with a sign, and have 12 been since the election or before the election. Is that 13 against the rules? There's five and six, maybe ten 14 people, fifteen people on the street corner out there 15 with their signs, with their banners, whatever. Every 16 weekend. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing about 18 that though, that's not County property. Because we go 19 through that each year. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it's certainly 21 part of the State of Texas Governor's Order. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is not County 23 property; it's State's. That's State right-of-way and 24 the State Highway Department, that's why they do that. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's the Governor's 33 1 Order. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My first feeling -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If that's what we're 4 talking about, let's talk about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. My personal 6 feeling is that they ought to cancel all the emergency 7 declarations nationwide. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't have that 10 authority so, you know -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the question then 13 comes to -- you know, just because you disagree with it, 14 do you disregard it? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, I understand that. 16 I get it. We do have an empty space. And a bunch of 17 people decide they want to do something and we're not 18 doing anything official or it's not being used, we have 19 the right to peaceably assemble according to our First 20 Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. We have that right. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Nobody disagrees with that 22 right. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 24 JUDGE KELLY: We do have the right to 25 reasonably regulate how these gatherings occur. That's 34 1 what the County policy is. But let me go back and 2 start -- and share what my concerns are. 3 My concern is not not being informed. I was 4 informed -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 6 JUDGE KELLY: -- the day before. And I 7 shared it with Commissioner Harris that day and tapped 8 out. My concern is that it was imprudent and unsafe. 9 We're in the middle of a 58 percent increase in active 10 COVID cases, during the very time that this meeting was 11 held. 12 So I'm interested in whether or not our 13 policy has been violated. I'm interested in whether the 14 Court order approving the veterans recommendations has 15 been violated. I'm interested in whether or not the 16 Governor's Order has been violated. 17 Because the normal course is when you 18 violate a Court Order, and this is a Commissioners' 19 Court, we have court orders that we give out every week. 20 Normally, if you violate a court order, you're held in 21 contempt of court. And there is a subpoena issued for a 22 show cause hearing and you come in and explain why you 23 did what you did, and if there's good cause for it then 24 you can be exonerated. And if the Court doesn't feel 25 like it's good cause, then they can hold them 35 1 accountable. That's the normal legal way. 2 If you're really going to follow the rule of 3 law, which seems to be lost in this COVID time. If 4 you're going to follow the rule of law, that's the way 5 it's done. And so I'm just interested in what should 6 the procedure be when we end up in a situation like 7 this? 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, first of all, did 9 we determine that anything was violated? 10 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How? 12 JUDGE KELLY: GA-32. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The Governor's Order? 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that would be a 16 State issue then. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's not -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: -- I'm the one in charge of -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- an issue for us to 21 take up. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It is for the Judge. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It is? 24 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, it is. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So you're going to -- 36 1 and so to enforce the Governor's Order then, you're 2 asking a question that you have to answer, yourself. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- and I tried to. And I 4 was ignored. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You haven't gotten down 6 to it. What is the penalty? That's what you're really 7 getting at, isn't it? 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'm asking -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Am I missing something? 10 JUDGE KELLY: -- what -- what is the 11 procedure that we should follow when people deliberately 12 disregard our rules and our orders? 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I would like to 14 ask the County Attorney if there's a particular thing 15 here you want us to draw our attention to? 16 MRS. STEBBINS: So, there's a violation 17 provision in here. But I don't think it really applies 18 here. I think that the -- well, number 12. You'll see 19 violation of these rules or failure to promptly pay for 20 costs incurred by the County for repairing damage or 21 cleanup may be cause for the County to deny an 22 organizer's future use of the courthouse grounds. 23 That's the only part of this that applies to violations, 24 but I don't think that that was the concern here. I 25 don't think there's damage to -- 37 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Right. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: -- the property or trash. I 3 don't think it was left worse than they found it. So I 4 don't -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: No. This is a safety issue. 6 It's not a damage issue. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So this -- this is an 8 issue for the Governor's order and you implementing that 9 and determining whether or not there's a penalty for it. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and advertising an event 11 that says face coverings are not mandatory. That's 12 against the law. Whether you have to put face masks on, 13 nobody's enforcing that. The Sheriff's made that 14 crystal clear. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I could have said 16 that to somebody in the parking lot. 17 JUDGE KELLY: So that's problematic for -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If I had said that to 19 somebody getting out of their car with a face mask in 20 their hand, if I had said to them and I'm present, you 21 don't need that, then would I be in violation then of 22 the Governor's Order? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's not as simple as 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, this is a person 38 1 on their way there. We're talking about -- you're 2 talking about somebody there that I don't know whether 3 was an organizer or not. You're just talking about 4 hearsay kind of stuff. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I -- I have a history 6 with Roman Garcia disregarding the orders. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that's -- that's 8 not germane to this, I don't believe. You're talking 9 about whether or not he was an organizer and planned it 10 or whatever. I don't know if he was or not. But his 11 advice on something that was spur of the moment kind of 12 deal, a couple days. I think I heard about it a day 13 before. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And so when I lawfully fulfill 15 my duties and request a COVID safety plan and it's 16 disregarded, what should we do? Just give up on safety 17 plans? Let everybody -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I -- I agree with 19 Commissioner Letz, myself. I think all of them ought to 20 be done away with. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But that's not germane 22 to the Court proceedings today. That's the national -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, he asked me a 24 question and I responded the way I wanted to and I gave 25 my answer. 39 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's a national 2 thing. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the 4 problem is that -- I agree with the Judge that, you 5 know, he's charged with enforcing -- or implementing is 6 probably the better word, the Governor's Order. The 7 problem is the Governor didn't give any penalties in his 8 order, so it's not enforceable to me. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. There's not any 10 key thing. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And if I was in your 13 position, Judge, I would feel the same way. I said 14 don't do this. You did it anyway. What am I going to 15 do about it? Am I going to be toothless from here on 16 out if people do what they want to do? Or can we come 17 to an agreement here that -- and that's why I take the 18 position I do. 19 This County courthouse belongs to the 20 taxpayers. We have the right -- and we have a right to 21 peacefully assemble. I cannot see anywhere that the 22 Governor's order supersedes the U.S. Constitution. And 23 these kinds of things have to be tested in order to find 24 out. The only way that we have gotten rid of bad laws 25 is we challenge bad laws. In this case it's not even a 40 1 law. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But I'm not going to 3 ignore the fact that this Court approved with a court 4 order what the plans were for Veterans Day. We did 5 that. Marty presented it. We approved it. And some of 6 us ignored it. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We approved that there 8 wouldn't be anything here put on by the County. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: No, we approved what 10 the events were going to be, Harley. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, we didn't. 12 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes, we did. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What was the event? 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, you want to 15 read -- read about them? 16 JUDGE KELLY: We don't need to get into all 17 of that because we're going to have -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, wait a minute. 19 Wait a minute. Those were not our events. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You and I only had -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: She -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And this Court has 24 control over events that we put on. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Right. 41 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She gave a list of 2 things that were going on. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That were planned. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: And -- and that we were 6 not going to have a parade and -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that has nothing to 8 do with this. There was an empty spot out there. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. So -- 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: There's an empty spot 11 at the AG barn every day. It's a public facility. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It has to be rented. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Can people gather 14 there? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't know. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, it's a public 17 facility. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's a good question. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Your argument is it's a 20 public facility. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. The argument -- 22 when you can pull in -- not in the building. In the 23 parking lot. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: The -- the building is 25 a public facility. 42 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you couldn't come 2 in this building that way. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, because it was 4 locked. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. So is the AG 6 barn many days. If I pull up out there, you have a 7 bunch of kids at a tailgate party on Saturday, are they 8 violating the law because they're in the parking lot out 9 there? I don't think they are. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Violating the 11 Governor's Executive Order. 12 MRS. STEBBINS: And the Executive Order -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But they're on County 14 property out there. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: And the Executive Order does 16 provide an enforcement provision, and says that an 17 offense under particular sections of the Government Code 18 has a fine that comes with it that may not exceed a 19 thousand dollars and subject to regulatory enforcement. 20 So there's that. 21 But also in the Court's Order, and that's 22 Court Order No. 36714, that's a policy for use of the 23 courthouse grounds, which I've just given y'all, that 24 does ask -- require for people to come to the Court and 25 make application. And there's an application, I believe 43 1 I copied and attached it, application to come and use 2 the courthouse grounds for events that are greater than 3 20 people, I believe, is the number. 4 And that's considered an event under the 5 policy. So while this doesn't provide for some kind of 6 violation provision, it does ask for folks to come and 7 make that application to the Court, and it doesn't give 8 I don't believe a specific time period. Just prior to 9 the event the organizer shall get approval from the Kerr 10 County Commissioners' Court. 11 So it is through the whole Court and not 12 just the County Judge, and then they have to do several 13 other things. So there are ways to do it and it's not 14 necessarily a 30-day time limit. I mean, it could be 15 just the Thursday or Friday before the Commissioners' 16 Court just so the Court has an opportunity to review it. 17 I just wanted to provide that clarification. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is there anything in 19 this -- in this contract about any sort of extenuating 20 or additional circumstances and/or permission? 21 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think so. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If this is all -- 23 MRS. STEBBINS: This -- this contemplates, 24 sort of, organization on County employees and Official's 25 part, you know, does -- 44 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: -- Maintenance need to help 3 provide chairs or electricity or clean up, mics, things 4 like that that could be helpful for events. And then 5 also provide the provision where people need to supply 6 some insurance in the event that something goes wrong. 7 But that's -- that is why the Court adopted it a couple 8 years ago, I can't remember which date, I think it was 9 in 2018, and gave -- oh, the application does -- it 10 doesn't say in the policy. The application does say 11 four weeks in advance. But that wasn't included as part 12 of the policy. Although -- 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: Anyway, I can get my notes 15 from when y'all adopted it to when you all told me what 16 you wanted and why you wanted it, if you would like some 17 more information. I can do that. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. I think it would be good 19 for us to look and then report back. I would like to 20 look at the order for Marty's recommendation to see 21 exactly what the wording of that order is. I would like 22 to go back and examine things because I think this is an 23 ongoing discussion. And so with that -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I think 25 you're getting into what's an event. You know, if you 45 1 have -- this was a -- you know, and where you draw that 2 line. You could have a group of people marching down 3 the road, and they could be a group of students, or 4 anybody who happen to walk down to the Courthouse 5 square, that's not an event to me. 6 This is a little bit closer to being an 7 event, but it's also a public gathering that people have 8 the right to do. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And they didn't request 10 anything from us. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So it's -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, they did. And we turned 13 them down. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it's how we -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They didn't request 16 what the County Attorney was talking about. Electricity 17 and -- 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, it -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, they did. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Huh-uh. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, they did. I got it in 22 the text. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, they didn't use 24 it, I don't think. They didn't use it. 25 JUDGE KELLY: I know. 46 1 MRS. STEBBINS: So an event under the policy 2 is defined as one, it hosts more than 20, or two, uses 3 the existing electricity outlets or calls for more 4 complex electricity setup than exists on the property, 5 and calls for the temporary exclusive use of space on 6 the courthouse grounds. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So to me it goes like I 8 said. You know, we may want to change the definition of 9 event and, you know, it would be nice if we could do 10 that possibly. But you know, I think that it was 11 inconsiderate possibly, and probably not the best thing 12 to do with the current situation, but I don't think it 13 was against our rules. And I think the people have the 14 right to gather. And I think that what the Veterans 15 Office chose to do and our Court Order on that is 16 totally irrelevant. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think so, too. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I -- I think you 19 said the right word and that's the word I should have 20 used, too, is it was inconsiderate. It was 21 inconsiderate of what we said should happen, and 22 inconsiderate for Veteran Service Officers who deal with 23 the veterans. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Commissioner 25 Harris, do you have a comment? 47 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. You know, the 2 last several weeks, it's my understanding, the Trump 3 train thing gathering at the Courthouse on Saturdays 4 then taking off from there. And you know, we've seen 5 lots of pictures of them, so that's something else 6 that's gone on. 7 I agree with -- again, I say that, you know, 8 they didn't -- the Patriots didn't go through the proper 9 channels. I think there's confusion or misunderstanding 10 according to the emergency declaration and that maybe 11 they didn't have to. So going forward, I think 12 everybody can be on the same page. 13 Again, I agree that it wasn't done the right 14 way but it was done for the right reasons. And so from 15 my point of view, let's figure out what our policy is 16 going to be going forward, and I think everybody will 17 know from here on out, and it oughta be okay. That's 18 all I got. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That goes back to what 20 Commissioner Letz said, which is what is a gathering. 21 What Commissioner Harris just said is that the Trump 22 train folks meet here, this is a staging ground, get in 23 cars, get everybody in line and take off from here. 24 It's a simple meeting place. And was that a gathering? 25 Is it a staging? It's a meeting place? Did they 48 1 violate anything? I don't think so. 2 But you -- the thing is if you ask for 3 permission and you get denied. I've always gone by the 4 old, better to get forgiveness than permission myself. 5 But if you ask and you're told no, it's a different 6 matter. 7 But again, I go back to this is a county -- 8 this is paid for by the taxpayers, this building and 9 these grounds, and we have a First Amendment right to 10 peaceably assemble. And nothing was harmed. 11 And we've suspended all of what we think of 12 as our rights in America because of a virus where we 13 have a 99 percent recovery rate. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think those numbers 15 are changing. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay, 98. It's still 17 pretty damn good odds. 18 JUDGE KELLY: I want to be crystal clear. 19 I'm supportive of all the Veterans causes. This is not 20 about Veterans. This is about civil disobedience. This 21 is about defiance. And it's about safety. 22 If the public can see, I'm looking out there 23 at least eight to ten unmasked faces, gathered at the 24 doorway, shoulder to shoulder, which is not socially 25 distanced. And everything that we're trying to 49 1 accomplish despite this virus is being wilfully 2 disobeyed. And that's what happened on Veterans Day. 3 It was a defiant act. 4 And if civil disobedience is okay for one 5 group, it's okay for others. And I don't want to have 6 BLM demonstrating here in Kerr County. I think we need 7 to follow the rules. I think there needs to be respect 8 for authority. I think we need to abide by the rule of 9 law and we did not do that last Wednesday. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But this country has a 11 proud history of civil disobedience, the term you just 12 used. That's how bad rules get challenged and fixed. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So you just bully your way out 14 there and have your meeting? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's not what I said. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's what happens. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's not necessarily 18 what happened. What did Rosa Parks do? Did she make a 19 mistake? That was civil disobedience. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So now you're defending civil 21 disobedience? 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I am. I always have. 23 Absolutely. I defend civil disobedience because it has 24 to be done in order to challenge bad rules. That's what 25 she did. 50 1 JUDGE KELLY: And so this was a defiant 2 challenge to the County policy on use of the courthouse 3 grounds? 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Suppose so. It could 5 be you -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: And if I challenge -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- you might hear from 8 them because it could be a misunderstanding. I don't 9 know. But I'm telling you my position is that Rosa 10 Parks challenged the norms, that was civil disobedience. 11 JUDGE KELLY: And she's -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She's one example. 13 JUDGE KELLY: She was arrested. She was 14 jailed. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's right. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And she got out on bail and 17 she marched. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's right. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's right. And 21 eventually you change things the right way, but you have 22 to draw attention to it. I do believe in civil 23 disobedience. You bet. Always have. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, to me 25 we're talking -- I mean, this is a very important topic, 51 1 but at the same time I see so many inconsistencies in 2 the Governor's Order. You know, they allow marches in 3 downtown Austin, they don't do a thing about them. 4 They've allowed -- all over the state they've allowed 5 marches. The Governor doesn't do anything. He doesn't 6 direct the State police to do anything. 7 We have football games and we're having 8 thousands of people together, which I support them doing 9 it but they're doing it. And, you know, I just think 10 the whole current situation with masks and the 11 Governor's Order is ridiculous. There's no enforcement 12 of it. There's no clear guidance of it. It doesn't 13 make a lot of sense. 14 I encourage people to wear masks. I think 15 they need to be safe. I think the people that are 16 standing that close to the door are not using good 17 judgment. But that's their choice. And I just don't 18 think that it makes sense for us to try to regulate or, 19 I guess, enforce the Governor's Order, because it's 20 non-enforceable. And he's not enforcing it anywhere in 21 the state that I'm aware of. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think we're making a 23 mountain out of a molehill on this particular event. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And we have a policy. 25 I don't think we need to revisit this at a later date. 52 1 We have a policy, which we all probably should read and 2 be familiar with. And I can confess that I didn't 3 recall most of this. I remember the food truck 4 discussion, that's about it. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Sheriff. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, coming from a 7 family of veterans I think y'all know how I feel and -- 8 and the Judge even called me that day and told me I'm -- 9 the only thing I'm concerned about is the policy. 10 Because it does affect the Sheriff's Office. And we 11 ignored it this time and I think the Court needs to look 12 at your policy, and either revisit it and redo it on 13 what you want. And I think the Trump train out here in 14 the parking lot is a good point that nothing was ever 15 said. 16 But if you read the policy, the Court order, 17 and I'm like the Judge, everything I've ever known about 18 court orders is you violate a court order, it's contempt 19 of court charge. It can be, it's a legally enforceable 20 contempt of court. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, when there are 22 gatherings that are in a traditional public forum that 23 are not necessarily -- well, they're protests? That's 24 different than -- than having an organized event. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But -- but my concern 53 1 is -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's right. That's 3 right. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- on the Number 2 5 event, okay, the definition of event, okay? General 6 functions number 1 means any activity held on the 7 grounds involving 20 or fewer people. That covers your 8 dog walkers, all your people just walking through or 9 your kids' tailgating or -- or things like that. 10 But number 2 says, an event means an event 11 that number one, holds more than 20 people, or uses the 12 existing electricity outlets, calls for more complex 13 electricity setup. Than event's on the property and 14 calls for the temporary exclusion of space on the 15 courthouse grounds. 16 Then after you get into that, you go down to 17 requirements under B. Number 1 general functions, which 18 is under 20, no advance notice -- written notice shall 19 be required for general functions. 20 But Number 2 for events, prior to an event 21 organizers shall -- and I've always been trained there's 22 a lot of difference between shall and should. Shall get 23 approval from Kerr County Commissioners to use 24 courthouse grounds that may be required -- and may be 25 required to execute a license agreement issued by Kerr 54 1 County, the contents of which may require organizers to 2 secure special event insurance, general liability 3 insurance in the amount of at least one million, and 4 naming the County as an insured as the like. Okay. 5 And then there's deposits in there and 6 there's security. D Security, organizers of the event 7 shall be required to follow security requirements of the 8 Kerr County Sheriff. And that's where it would involve 9 my department. 10 And then there's -- it goes through when the 11 application has to be done. It goes through the hold 12 harmless clause in case anyone gets injured on the 13 courthouse square. So there's a lot of things where I'm 14 not weighing in one way or another. And I agree that 15 it's public property. But if you're going to have a 16 policy, it needs to be an enforceable policy if you're 17 going to try and involve law enforcement, or the law, 18 period, or you need to do away with the whole policy. 19 But -- and it can't be enforced on one group and not the 20 other group. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I notice you 22 didn't arrest anybody. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't even show up. 24 I would have, but I mean -- I didn't show up not because 25 I don't honor the veterans. I told the Judge I wasn't 55 1 running them off. All right. 2 But I agree they violated the policy. And I 3 think if we're going to do it, we need to set the policy 4 clear. And whether it's for them, whether it's for, you 5 know, gatherings like the Trump train when they gather 6 there's more that 20 people there. And what are you 7 going to do? Or are you going to do away with the 8 policy? 9 But it puts us that are required to enforce 10 some of these in a situation just like the Governor's 11 mandate. The Governor's mandate on masks is totally 12 unenforceable. Because to enforce it you have to detain 13 them. And his order says you cannot detain them. It's 14 totally unenforceable. And I wouldn't ever -- 15 But I would -- instead of just putting it 16 off and not looking at it again, Harley, I think the 17 policy does need to be looked at or done away with. One 18 of the two. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is that a workshop 20 thing? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Do we want to do that? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we need to 24 clarify what an event is. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think we need 56 1 to have a workshop on that. We can discuss it. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So just that one part? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What do you think, 5 Judge? 6 JUDGE KELLY: I don't know. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's your agenda item. 8 JUDGE KELLY: It is my agenda item. Because 9 I felt like it was a willful defiance. And I see things 10 out there deteriorating into quasi anarchy, and people 11 do what they can get away with. We have rules for a 12 reason. 13 I spoke earlier about my dad, and 77 years 14 ago at the Battle of (inaudible), and later in life I 15 asked him one day, Daddy, why did you jump out of that 16 plane when that landing strip on the ground on fire? 17 And he says because I'm a Marine and I was ordered to do 18 it. They follow orders. They respect authority. 19 That's what our veterans do. I think we could learn a 20 lesson from them. I really do. 21 These are reasonable rules. There's nothing 22 unreasonable about the rules. And if we have an 23 emergency situation where we have to call a meeting to 24 try to get something approved, we can do that. But we 25 need to work within the rules and not just make them up 57 1 as we go. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I agree. 3 MRS. STEBBINS: And we need to remember that 4 we're talking about a couple of different things and 5 trying to make the same rules apply to particular 6 things. And that it is a traditional public forum. And 7 so we can't restrict political speech, in the same way 8 we can say if you want to come here and have a, you 9 know, a craft sale or something like that, like we used 10 to have on the courthouse lawns, that we can -- you, the 11 Court, can restrict that in different ways. 12 But when we're talking about political 13 speech, there's more protections and the Court doesn't 14 have the same freedom to restrict that. So we're -- 15 we're talking about a couple of different things. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We're talking about the 17 First Amendment. 18 JUDGE KELLY: I'm not talking about 19 political speech; what I'm talking about is safety. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Understood. 21 JUDGE KELLY: I've got a 58 percent blow up 22 out there because people aren't wearing masks and this 23 is being advertised by at least one person that says, 24 quote, face coverings are not mandatory, close quote. 25 That is injurious to the public's wellbeing. 58 1 MRS. STEBBINS: It just -- a couple of times 2 the gathering of the Tramp train, for example, meeting 3 place here to march off. That's -- I think that's 4 different from -- from an organized event where they're 5 saying let's violate the Governor's order. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can we -- I 7 believe we have a lot of people that want to talk. 8 Shall we move on to them? I mean, I think we can look 9 at the event and maybe clearly better define it, but I 10 think that we're not going to resolve that today. But 11 those that want to speak to us -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: There's no action item today. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I don't think so. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't think 15 so. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I didn't put an action 17 item on mine; just a discussion. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So the public -- first 19 one is Bonnie White. 20 MRS. WHITE: He's going to -- he'll go 21 first. 22 MR. WOLFF: Can I speak first, Judge? 23 JUDGE KELLY: He's number two. You're 24 number two. She's first. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: She said -- she can 59 1 defer to him. 2 JUDGE KELLY: She can defer to him. Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Go ahead. 4 JUDGE KELLY: So if -- we keep them in order 5 when we turn them in. So she was number one and you're 6 number two. So you're next in line. 7 MR. WOLFF: Okay. Well, I'm Jerry Wolff. 8 I'm President of the -- 9 MRS. WHITE: Jerry, I don't want to defer. 10 If I could table it and do it later, that's what I 11 prefer to do. 12 MR. WOLFF: Can she speak after me? 13 JUDGE KELLY: We're going to call them in 14 order. If you want -- if you want to speak now, you can 15 speak now. Or if you want to go to the end of -- 16 MRS. WHITE: Okay. 17 JUDGE KELLY: -- the list, you can do that. 18 Whatever you want to do. 19 MRS. WHITE: I'll be happy to. 20 MR. WOLFF: Well, the question is whether 21 Miss White can speak after -- speak after me or does she 22 lose her turn? 23 JUDGE KELLY: She doesn't lose her turn. 24 MR. WOLFF: Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: She goes first or she goes to 60 1 the end of the line. 2 MR. WOLFF: That's fine. Okay. 3 I'm Jerry Wolff. I'm President of the Kerr 4 County Patriot's Club. I guess public enemy number one. 5 So we need to get some things clarified this morning. A 6 lot's been said, some of it true, some of it untrue. 7 First of all, our club had talked about 8 this. I brought it up about three weeks ago in a 9 meeting and said well, maybe we should do something for 10 Veterans Day. We have done something for -- had plans 11 on doing something for 4th of July, which got cancelled 12 on July the 2nd because of the Governor Abbott's 13 restrictions that he issued on that date that the County 14 Judge informed us we would no -- we would not be able to 15 hold that 4th of July celebration here on courthouse 16 grounds and which we did file a COVID prevention plan, 17 which was approved. 18 We postponed that celebration to September 19 the 14th, I believe, now the dates are getting a little 20 gray, with the Celebrate America event, which was kind 21 of a postponed 4th of July. Again, we filed a COVID 22 prevention plan, which was approved by this Court. 23 So anyway, this event for the veterans was 24 not something high on my list as a recommendation to the 25 club members. Primarily being because the County always 61 1 has a Veterans Day celebration here at the courthouse, 2 and I thought we would just participate. In fact, I 3 could not remember, to be honest with you, whether we 4 laid the wreath, if wreaths were laid that day or not. 5 I even purchased a wreath two weeks ago in anticipation 6 that we would have this event here. Then I contacted 7 the Veterans Affairs Office and was told, you know, they 8 were not planning anything. And she -- and she sent me 9 a list of all the events that were planned. And I said, 10 okay. 11 And then, of course, the election came and 12 many of us were involved in the election, and we were 13 very, to be perfectly honest, tired. Mentally and 14 physically pretty worn out. Some of us had been 15 involved in this for quite a while and I said no, we're 16 not going to do anything. Just going to let it go. 17 Then our meeting Monday night a week ago, 18 inspiration got into everyone, we gotta do something. I 19 said all right, let's just go to the courthouse. It 20 will be our club. Just -- we'll keep it small, and 21 we'll do a little celebration for our veterans. So it 22 started out that way. 23 Well, by Tuesday when people started 24 planning, it grew. And then people wanted to do 25 something bigger. And so we contacted -- someone in the 62 1 club, I asked them to contact you about having 2 electricity for a PA system. And you declined it. 3 That's really all I knew about it actually is that you 4 had declined the electricity. 5 And I said all right, we got to go to Plan 6 B. We gotta find some way to have a PA system and we 7 found a PA system that has -- was run off of a battery. 8 And I said well, that's sufficient for the group we're 9 going to have. Doesn't have to be a professional level 10 PA system for a small group. 11 And we initially contacted also at that 12 time, the -- one of the daily newspapers -- or the three 13 times a week paper and let them know. Got your message 14 and said that no electricity. You have to be an event, 15 that word. And so we said all right, it's not going to 16 be an event, called the newspaper, tell them not to 17 advertise it. Cancel it. 18 (Timer rings.) 19 JUDGE KELLY: I'm sorry. 20 MR. WOLFF: I can wait. 21 JUDGE KELLY: No. Your three minutes are 22 up. 23 MR. WOLFF: So we did that -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: You got a wrap up sentence? 25 MR. WOLFF: No, sir. I wanted to tell you 63 1 the full story. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we limit this -- 3 everybody's -- we've got a lot of people here to listen 4 to. Limit your remarks to three minutes. That is the 5 policy of the court. Always has been. 6 MR. WOLFF: All right. Very good. 7 That's -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: Did you have a summation 9 sentence? 10 MR. WOLFF: Yeah. There were 75 percent 11 conservatives that voted in the last election. And we 12 voted to have -- to continue freedom in this country. 13 The last time I think I was -- I spoke a number of times 14 at the City Council. A couple years ago, there was a 15 member on the City Council who was an appointed member, 16 and she's a well known Democrat here in Kerrville. And 17 she decided that she did not want the visitor's forum at 18 the beginning of the meeting because there was a lot of 19 quote riffraff coming to speak. And I hope that's not 20 the way I'm being considered now. Thank you. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. The next -- 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I want to make one 23 comment. Jerry, I started with -- I supported veterans. 24 I support the Veterans Service Office and I support the 25 Patriots, okay, and their conservative policy. So don't 64 1 feel offended, okay. I'm -- I'm certainly not against 2 what you're -- stand for. I'm just against -- I'm just 3 for supporting what we have put in place. Okay. 4 MR. WOLFF: I understand what you're saying 5 and I was trying to answer that -- 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yeah. Okay. 7 MR. WOLFF: -- your concern. And get to 8 that subject matter without the background, I don't 9 think that can be explained or tell you what our 10 thinking was and what we attempted to do. The pictures 11 that you will see on our website are the picture of five 12 veterans. I wanted to tell you every one of them is a 13 combat veteran. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think everybody in 15 here supports the vets. 16 MR. WOLFF: Well, we did it. We showed them 17 on November 11th that we support them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But others of us did the 19 same thing. So don't -- I mean, don't want -- I don't 20 like the implication that we didn't because we weren't 21 at your event. 22 MR. WOLFF: No. I -- I have no implication 23 of that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay. 25 MR. WOLFF: And I have no implication that 65 1 the County did not sponsor an event. That is your 2 decision. You have a different set of rules and -- that 3 you have to live by. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We're just trying to do 5 what the Governor said. 6 MR. WOLFF: Sir? 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: We just tried to do 8 what the Governor said. 9 MR. WOLFF: And we did too. We left it on 10 the common sense of the people who attend -- who 11 attended that gathering. It was not a public gathering. 12 It was to be basically a club gathering, but people did 13 talk about it. One of our club members did post 14 something. He is not an officer of the Patriots. I was 15 not aware of it. I have -- I don't think I have ever 16 posted anything on Facebook so I'm not a Facebook 17 expert. I do have an Facebook account, which I probably 18 look at something on there once a month at one website 19 or one Facebook page. That's how much I know about 20 Facebook. 21 But anyway, so something was not done right. 22 That is correct. I would not have said masks are not 23 required or should not be worn. That should not have 24 been said. But other than that, I -- I think what we 25 did was above board and very up front and was meant to 66 1 no affront to any government agency, group or person. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Let me ask you about this. 3 Remember when we were at Buzzie's and -- 4 MR. WOLFF: Yes. 5 JUDGE KELLY: -- you sat down at my table 6 and we had a little visit? You told me that Roman 7 Garcia pulled this posting. 8 MR. WOLFF: Correct. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I went home that night I and 10 have a screenshot and still have it. 11 MR. WOLFF: I see it. I understand. I saw 12 it yesterday. As a matter of fact, I went and looked. 13 When I said told him to put it, I was thinking in terms 14 that he posted it on our -- our club's web -- Facebook 15 Page. We do have a club Facebook page which very rarely 16 is used, to be perfectly honest with you. And I thought 17 that's what you were talking about. And it was supposed 18 to be posted on our -- our website. I also -- we also 19 have a website. And when I said he -- I told him to 20 pull it off, I did not tell him directly, I gave 21 direction to someone else that was working with him on 22 this, that I understood him to have pulled it. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 24 MR. WOLFF: So that is a mistake. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 67 1 MR. WOLFF: And we own up to our mistakes. 2 JUDGE KELLY: The next speaker is Ruth 3 Cremin. 4 MRS. CREMIN: Good morning. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Good morning. 6 MRS. CREMIN: I just am reiterating 7 government. Government was designed to establish 8 justice, ensure domestic tranquility and provide by 9 the common -- for the common defense. We have the 10 United States Constitution that enumerates citizens' 11 rights. We have a Texas Constitution that enumerates 12 citizens' rights. And in Article 1, Section 27 of the 13 Texas Constitution, we have the freedom to assemble. 14 And I don't know about you, but I assembled 15 on my courthouse lawn in Carson County in the Panhandle 16 of Texas most of my high school life. We had 17 cheerleading practice under the shade trees. We sat 18 there with our Dr. Peppers from the Dairy Queen and 19 talked to our boyfriends. We lived at the courthouse 20 lawn. Clarence Williams was our Judge and he never 21 chased us off for any reason. And we had flu in those 22 days too. And we had measles and mumps and chicken pox. 23 The Constitution says that in Article 29 24 that no law will be made to validate -- invalidate any 25 of the laws that are enumerated in the Texas 68 1 Constitution. Well, the royal mandate from Austin is 2 not a law. A mandate is not a law. And the mandate is 3 written in there that it can last 30 days. Well, this 4 is like nine months passed that 30 days. 5 And I don't know about you, I don't need you 6 to take my temperature. I don't need you to tell me 7 that I have to put something on my face, I might catch a 8 germ. I'm 72 years old. I went to Viet Nam. I'm a 9 veteran too. Not a marine, but I was in the Army. And 10 I want you to know that we, as intelligent adult human 11 beings whose cared for our families and now have 12 grandchildren that we help care for, don't need the 13 government to take care of our health. 14 It's not an affront to you, don't lose face 15 because we don't want to wear those ridiculous masks who 16 are doing more harm than good to the people. People's 17 teeth are falling out now because their mouths aren't 18 getting oxygen. Look it up. My chiropractor had four 19 cases of staph infection on his patients because they've 20 worn those masks. And one had to have surgery to take 21 care of her staph infection. Little children are being 22 brain damaged because they don't get oxygen. 23 Permanently brain damaged. 24 The masks are not doing anything. Read 25 serious science and it will tell you that. But it makes 69 1 us obedient and it makes us look like we're doing what 2 somebody who cares about us thinks we should do and I -- 3 thank you, I don't need that from the government. 4 That's all I have to say. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. John Cremin. 6 (Applause.) 7 MR. CREMIN: Hi. I'm John Cremin. I spent 8 33 years on active duty. I wasn't in the Guard or in 9 the Reserve. I just have a question. Were any of you 10 active duty in the military? Sir? 11 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 12 MR. CREMIN: So we have one of five that was 13 on active duty. Oh, that's wonderful. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I got an exemption 15 working on defense projects. 16 MR. CREMIN: But you weren't in the 17 military. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: But I was developing 19 things you used, sir. 20 MR. CREMIN: Yes, sir, I understand that. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. 22 MR. CREMIN: But you weren't in the 23 military. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's correct, sir. 25 MR. CREMIN: You didn't go to Viet Nam. I 70 1 did. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It's an entire team. 3 MR. CREMIN: Sure it is. When I got here in 4 2003, I believe it was May, a neighbor came across and 5 said, you know, there's going to be a little parade on 6 Sidney Baker. Sidney Baker is one of those Viet Nam 7 veterans, along with some other guys like Garrett and 8 Lemos. 9 So we went to watch this parade and it was 10 the first person killed in Iraq. And the street -- 11 Sidney Baker was wall to wall people, both sides of the 12 street, and I thought, we have come to a patriotic town. 13 There's a plaque out in -- not a plaque but 14 a memorial outside that has 88 names on it. And it says 15 the Kerr County War Memorial, in loving memory of those 16 who made the supreme sacrifice. Fortunately, I didn't 17 have to. 18 But I come here on Memorial Day and Veterans 19 Day because this is where we should come. I'm proud of 20 my service. I used to get a newspaper here, but it got 21 more and more liberal so I quit. So I went to look 22 after the Patriot's meeting to see where on the internet 23 we could go in Kerr County to do some veterans deal, and 24 there wasn't one in Kerr County. And I understand the 25 person who is in charge decided he didn't want to do it, 71 1 although that was his job and he made the decision that 2 because of COVID-19 we're just not going to do anything. 3 VOICE: She made the decision. 4 MR. CREMIN: Who? She, you? Okay. 5 Wonderful. You're not a veteran either, are you? 6 MS. MISTRETTA: I am, sir. I was active 7 duty. So if you'd like to speak to someone in here that 8 was active duty, and currently serving, please direct it 9 at me. 10 MR. CREMIN: Okay. Good. After Monday 11 night's meeting, we decided we'd show up. This is the 12 common area. It doesn't belong to the Commissioners. 13 Belongs to the people that live in Kerr County. So we 14 decided we'd come. We didn't have electricity. We 15 brought a portable speaker. I got to talk. Got to say 16 some things. I figured it was a First Amendment right. 17 So I talked. We're not socialists yet. I think we're 18 getting rather close. 19 My wife mentioned Article I on Section 29 of 20 the Constitution. To guard against all transitions of 21 the high powers herein designated, we declare that 22 everything in this Bill of Rights is accepted out of the 23 general powers of the government and shall forever 24 inviolate in all laws, etc. So I looked up the word 25 inviolate. Free from violation, injury and desecration. 72 1 Untouched. Unbroken. Not infringed. 2 So I think we were -- oops, my three minutes 3 must be up. 4 I'm covered under the American with 5 Disability Act. And so I don't need to wear a mask. 6 And I don't need to tell you why I don't need to wear a 7 mask. I carry it just so that when you say something I 8 can say, here's my mask. 9 I think it was inopportune for you group -- 10 as a group -- I was a fighter pilot. When I took off, 11 we had a plan. But once we broke ground, that plan just 12 went out the window because all sorts of exceptions came 13 in. So in this case, we didn't have permission. We 14 didn't have -- come to Commissioners' Court to get the 15 holy water sprinkled on us that we could have a meeting 16 outside, so we just met outside. For that, I guess we 17 won't forever be able to do anything in Kerrville. 18 When -- I -- I read a lot of history. I 19 think we need to go back to 1933 in Germany and take a 20 look at what happened in 1933, when they started passing 21 laws and see what happened. Thanks for your time. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you for your 23 service. 24 MS. MISTRETTA: Sir, thank you for your 25 service. Now, I have something to say to you. 73 1 MR. CREMIN: Sure. 2 MS. MISTRETTA: I'm an active duty person 3 here. 4 MR. CREMIN: Okay. Good. 5 MS. MISTRETTA: Okay. I do appreciate your 6 service. And the one thing I have learned is you lead 7 by example. And for an enlisted person, having a -- 8 someone in charge of you that leads by example are the 9 ones we follow. The ones that do as we do are the ones 10 that we follow. You coming in here and disrespecting 11 and being ugly to folks that haven't served, I wouldn't 12 follow you. That's not the right way to go about doing 13 things. 14 I don't appreciate how you spoke to these 15 people here. And I am a veteran. I still serve. 16 Incorrect on your end. And I'm Air Force. So I was a 17 Maintainer, which part of his company probably produced. 18 Have more respect for people. 19 MR. CREMIN: I was a Maintenance Officer, 20 too. Did that for three years. 21 MS. MISTRETTA: Okay. And do you see me 22 bashing him or anybody else on the Court here? I don't 23 appreciate that. 24 MR. CREMIN: Well, I'm sorry you feel that 25 way. This is how I feel. You guys had a chance. You 74 1 didn't -- 2 MS. MISTRETTA: I didn't feel it was right 3 and safe for members of our military to be put in harm's 4 way. That's why I didn't do it that way. Like I said 5 earlier, I took these to our veterans. To keep them out 6 of harm's way, to appreciate them in a safe way. So do 7 not bad mouth the County for not doing it your way. 8 MR. CREMIN: For the 99 point something or 9 other survival rate for COVID-19, this thing is just a 10 joke. 11 MS. MISTRETTA: Yes, sir. But -- 12 MR. CREMIN: It really is. 13 MS. MISTRETTA: -- you were a Colonel. 14 MR. CREMIN: I was. 15 MS. MISTRETTA: Lead by example. Yes, sir. 16 Follow the chain of command. He asked us, as our boss, 17 not to do something like this. And I said okay, Plan B. 18 VOICE: Why isn't your mask on? 19 MS. MISTRETTA: Because I'm speaking, ma'am. 20 Do not be disrespectful. This is not -- if 21 you serve, this is not the correct way to speak to 22 people. Either you lost your way or you forgot it. 23 That's no way to speak to someone. Respect is how you 24 get things done. Doing it the correct way. Being angry 25 is not. I would do anything for veterans. And I have. 75 1 My assistant works overtime when she doesn't have to. 2 We are, you know, beyond capacity but we make it happen 3 because we care. Y'all coming in here and being ugly 4 and saying things of that nature and that we don't care 5 is completely wrong. That's what you're -- 6 MR. CREMIN: But to not allow veterans on a 7 Federal holiday -- 8 MS. MISTRETTA: I get that, sir. 9 MR. CREMIN: Yeah. I don't think you do get 10 it. I think -- 11 MS. MISTRETTA: I've served since 2005. I 12 think I get it. 13 MR. CREMIN: I started in 1960. 14 MS. MISTRETTA: Okay. Well, times they are 15 changing, sir. 16 MR. CREMIN: Well, they are. 17 MS. MISTRETTA: Revolving change. 18 MR. CREMIN: Yes. And respect also. 19 MS. MISTRETTA: Same. It seems we've lost 20 that. Thank you for coming. 21 MR. CREMIN: Yeah. 22 (Clapping) 23 JUDGE KELLY: Terri Hall. 24 MS. HALL: Okay. Commissioners, I want to 25 just remind us that our first God given rights -- our 76 1 Constitutional rights are God given. They're not given 2 to us by man, so they can't be taken away from us by 3 man. The First Amendment give us a right to peaceably 4 assemble. It also gives us the first amendment right to 5 free speech. And this courthouse belongs to we, the 6 people. And it's the ultimate symbol of the people in 7 our County. 8 Then, as you heard earlier, the Texas 9 Constitution also secures this right. Article I, 10 Section 27 secures our right to peaceably assemble. 11 Article I, Section 29, as Mr. Cremin just spoke of, 12 shows that these are inviolable and can't be taken away 13 from us. Not by a pandemic and certainly not by a 14 Governor's Executive Order that is not even a lawful 15 statute. 16 Article I, Section 28, says that no man can 17 suspend this Texas Bill of Rights. I'll read it to you. 18 No power of suspending laws in this State shall be 19 exercised except by the legislature. And remember, 20 Section 29 comes right after that, says that our Bill of 21 Rights can't be violated ever by State Law. 22 So then you go to the Governor's Executive 23 Order that says, I have issued executive orders and 24 suspensions of Texas laws, which he has no authority to 25 do. So when you want to talk about the rule of law, 77 1 there is a lot of controversy about the Governor's 2 order. Because it is not a law. It is an executive 3 order. And if you look at our own Texas Constitution, 4 his order violates that Constitution of an inviolable 5 right that cannot be taken from us. 6 So I think all of us want to abide by the 7 rule of law. There's no question. And we're certainly 8 not trying to project that we're not trying to follow 9 the law. But I'm pretty certain that our veterans, and 10 men and women in uniform who were standing on the 11 beaches in Normandy or taking Iwo Jima weren't scared of 12 a virus or worried about a COVID action plan. Nor were 13 the veterans who attended our Veterans Day Memorial last 14 week. It was their choice to determine the risk of 15 wearing a mask or not wearing a mask to participate. 16 And you have no obligation to enforce an 17 unconstitutional order. 18 And at the end of the day, we don't need the 19 government's permission to exercise our constitutional 20 God given rights on public property. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 22 (Applause.) 23 JUDGE KELLY: Bonnie White. 24 MRS. WHITE: And I'll ask for a point of 25 order from the Court, if I happen to go a little long, 78 1 I'm going to be a bit windy. But I seem to be the 2 subject I think of this angst, and I first want to say, 3 Commissioner Moser, Marty, there was nothing done with 4 ill intent. There was nothing in this that was done 5 maliciously or wilfully. 6 We, as Jerry had stated earlier, many of us 7 in our Patriots organization where Harley heard about 8 this event, by the way, just to remind you, it must have 9 been Monday night we talked about it. We've talked 10 about it before. And as Jerry mentioned, he had talked 11 with the Veteran Service center and -- I mean the 12 Veterans organization here, there was nothing 13 particularly planned, which is fine. And I didn't know 14 until just this moment that in listening to her that you 15 had asked her, Judge, to please not do it because of the 16 COVID scare. And I also didn't know that you had asked 17 Rusty to come and, I guess, arrest us if we were in 18 willful violation. 19 I will admit that we had many of us in the 20 Patriot club -- that's what we are, we're patriots -- 21 many of us in that organization had worked the election, 22 some for three weeks in early voting. Others of us for 23 election day. Many of us on the campaign out in the AG 24 barn. And by the way, Commissioners, I've been where 25 you are as far as law. I'm not here to argue the 79 1 Constitution or the Governor's ordinance or anything 2 else. 3 I'm here to say that if you want a court 4 order -- and by the way, Judge I was not familiar nor 5 was I given a copy, Harley didn't know either or 6 remember what the Court order exactly said. We were not 7 given a copy of that. Maybe that would have made a 8 difference had we been. 9 This was, in fact, a last minute decision by 10 people who were tired, who checked through the proper 11 sources to find there was no other event that was going 12 to be officially held, who wanted to do something for, 13 as Jerry mentioned, our veterans in our organization. 14 Roman does not represent our organization as 15 far as his Facebook page. Nobody was aware, I was not, 16 that that went out. I will say when a group of tired 17 people Monday night decided we didn't want to slight our 18 veterans on Veterans Day, we quickly called on some 19 people who were present, one of whom you've heard from 20 today, to see if there were any words that they would 21 like to speak. 22 As a matter of fact, if you felt that this 23 was going to be a willful malicious event, we never 24 would have asked you, Judge, to say a few words. We 25 were aware that the emergency order had been lifted. We 80 1 were aware that for weekends for two months before 2 people had been peaceably assembling at the courthouse. 3 We were not aware there was any Court Order that set out 4 your parameters for these quote events, which you 5 yourself seem to be a bit confused by. 6 If you're going to proceed with this, I 7 thought no problem with you setting up rules and -- and 8 as a court order enforcing those, posting them perhaps 9 would be helpful. I don't take the paper anymore and I 10 don't always look at Facebook either. But if you were 11 to post these ordinances at Heather's recommendation, 12 maybe that would be helpful to people that were going to 13 go out and as assemble something. 14 I will say, if you're going to do that, 15 there were a lot of people assembling on the grounds of 16 the AG barn that you mentioned during three weeks of 17 early voting. You -- you were there, Judge, in your 18 truck about a foot from my husband and my face without a 19 mask speaking to us and others there who were also 20 maskless, meeting hundreds of people. You might want to 21 set a policy for that, too. To talk about campaigning 22 and how to set the guidelines there. 23 Again, there was absolutely nothing 24 malicious. We didn't mean to overlook. By the way, 25 Marty, I attended with my husband who is also a Navy 81 1 veteran, the breakfast that the Rotary Club did for the 2 service members at the Veterans Service Center on I 3 believe it was the Friday before. I didn't see anybody 4 with masks. A few, as you mentioned, at our event were 5 with masks. A few there were with masks. Nobody was 6 there -- no Sheriff was there enforcing any other mask 7 ordinance at the breakfast with Alan Hill. 8 So having said all that, this -- in defense 9 of this particular event, I sense that there are some 10 feelings hurt here and here and here. And that was not 11 the intent. I agree with Commissioner Letz, I believe, 12 and Commissioner Harris, who said there is an element of 13 confusion that came along with this particular thing. 14 Nobody's intent was to deliberately disobey. 15 As a matter of fact, when we got the message 16 from you we did call the newspaper. We said do not put 17 it in the paper. We did call our media person, who is 18 actually one of your employees, and said do not put it 19 on our website. And that, we couldn't control anything 20 beyond that because, as someone mentioned today, there 21 was a lot of word of mouth. In fact, I didn't know a 22 lot of the people myself that showed up there that day. 23 So we're outside. If you're going to do 24 something outside, if you're going to do a court order 25 that can be enforced, I agree that Governor's Order is 82 1 impossible, as Rusty has numerous times shared with us, 2 cannot really be enforced. Then you guys come up with 3 some kind of order that can be. And if that is -- 4 again, which we were not aware of since events had been 5 going on for weeks before with no outcry, with no 6 meeting like this, none of us had any thought when we 7 went into this -- and it was impromptu, a night -- two 8 nights before, a night before -- that we would honor our 9 veterans. There -- this was not a protest. It was not 10 meant to be incendiary. There -- it was not a 11 patriotic -- I mean, it was not a partisan event, as 12 others were. It was to celebrate our veterans, which we 13 all in this room agree that we should do. No argument 14 there, Commissioner. No mandates to come. There were 15 no mandates to wear or not wear a mask. People came, 16 some with, some without. There was no mandate to 17 declare a party affiliation at this event. 18 So I know that you are custodians over this 19 particular property. And as such, I would not object to 20 a policy, whether it's the enforcement of your current 21 policy, we should make that public. Us in the public 22 would like to know how to do that. 23 If it's coming before you to get the 24 permission for the particular event, I don't think 25 anybody would have a problem with that. We had no 83 1 safety or security issues. There were no counter 2 protestors. And I think it's the least we could do to 3 honor. We had no Memorial Day -- I came to one event 4 here. No 4th of July. No Veterans Day plans. And 5 that's fine. I understand your concerns about COVID. 6 But those of us who electively went and 7 participated I think were glad that we did. I would 8 remind you that the Republic Women went out and laid red 9 ribbons without a policy on the tomb on Spur 100. I 10 know that's not under your purview, but they -- they did 11 do so and they did so without masks. I noticed the 12 Chamber of Commerce had their event. I saw pictures of 13 them inside, where you recirculate air, without masks, 14 many of them. 15 So I mentioned the campaign parking lot. 16 The red ribbon ceremony. If there are things that you 17 would like to regulate, I understand that. Having been 18 in government leadership myself, just -- I will say in 19 all innocence that no one meant anything maliciously. 20 No one meant to overstep any bounds. 21 Let's say, it's something that no one knew 22 was not permitted. When it was decided to -- to happen, 23 to occur, that having been said, it was impossible to 24 get the word of mouth around to cancel it. We did 25 everything we could publicly to cancel it. Okay. 84 1 So I just want that to be clear to you, 2 Commissioner Moser, there seems to be a little angst 3 here. To you, Marty, seems to be a little angst. And 4 to you, Judge, a little angst. This was not willful. 5 This was not malicious. It was a good intent. It was 6 to honor those who, by the way, served through sniper 7 fire, malaria, bamboo spikes, all kinds of leeches and 8 heat and hunger, snakes and vipers and many, many wars. 9 They weren't, as someone mentioned earlier, worried 10 about a virus with a very small amount. I take nothing 11 away, my brother-in-law almost died. We can do things 12 to prevent it. 13 But I just want this Court to know, God is 14 not the author of confusion, nor is he a patriot. I 15 don't -- I don't allow it in my home. I don't permit it 16 in our marriage. And I believe that there are things 17 that have to be discussed. This is clearly, clearly 18 being blown out of proportion. 19 I think Commissioner Letz -- by the way, 20 congratulations to you too on your reelection -- stated 21 it perfectly. There's confusion that needs to be 22 cleared up. That's what I hope that you can do. Thank 23 you. 24 (Applause). 25 MRS. STEBBINS: Judge, I just asked Bruce 85 1 with IT if the policy was posted on our website with the 2 application and he said he believed it was not. So the 3 Court can ask him to get that on our website so that the 4 public will be more informed about what those 5 requirements are in the future for particular events. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think we had a couple 7 applications already from the Patriots Club. 8 MRS. WHITE: This was one before the 9 emergency order was lifted. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 11 MR. WOLFF: Yeah, we -- yeah, we had -- I 12 think I mentioned earlier, we had filed the application 13 for the 4th of July and for the Celebrate America. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. So you were familiar 15 with the applications we use as well. 16 MR. WOLFF: Yes. We also might want to 17 understand what the definition of event was too. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well, ask for -- 19 MR. WOLFF: We didn't ask to use any 20 facilities here at this courthouse. We didn't have 21 electricity. We had no chairs. This was totally done 22 by us with no help from any County employees. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. I have one -- one 24 more speaker. Roman Garcia. 25 MR. GARCIA: Good morning, Judge. 86 1 Commissioners. I'm here because -- first of all, this 2 is a very big issue regarding our right to peacefully 3 assemble. 4 But also I'd like to first start out by, I 5 think respectfully, Judge, it was inappropriate for you 6 to invoke my name in the manner that you did earlier, 7 saying that I have and that I did purposely or 8 intentionally defy any type of order or mandate. I 9 think that was inappropriate. I think there's a lot of 10 confusion right now between what the executive order 11 says and what the Court orders or procedures may say. I 12 haven't read those. I -- in fact, before -- probably 13 about a year ago, I have actually looked for those 14 procedures on the court's website and didn't find them. 15 So I believe -- I think the County Attorney just 16 suggested that those be put on there. I think that 17 would be very beneficial for the public for the 18 transparency and for the accessibility of that. 19 But I'd like to start with the executive 20 order. And there's this constant use of the word 21 mandate. Judge, you have used it. I think some 22 Commissioners probably have used it in here. 23 Commissioner Letz said it perfectly. There is no 24 penalty for this so-called mandate. I think we need to 25 look at that. The United States Supreme Court currently 87 1 is looking at using the two words, mandate and command, 2 differently. A mandate is an order with a penalty. And 3 a command is simply a command with -- with no penalty. 4 I think I also want to refer to what the 5 Facebook post that I posted, that's kind of where I 6 think that information starts to disseminate from. I 7 did post it on our club's Facebook page. I will say 8 that and I take responsibility for that. I was told by 9 our president of the club that we should not do that. 10 We did not want it to be a club hosted event. So I 11 immediately took it down after having that conversation 12 with him. 13 And I decided well, because if we can't post 14 it as a quote, as a club event, there has to be some 15 way -- I wanted to make sure all of our veterans in the 16 community was aware so we could properly celebrate them. 17 So that's what I did. 18 And I would also like to address, I did say 19 that face coverings were not mandated because there 20 simply is no mandate. There is no penalty for it. So 21 that was the reason for that. 22 Now, I'm not sure if the veterans department 23 was in any way informed by our -- either our club or by 24 any member that we were putting on this event. But I 25 would like to say for myself in putting on my Facebook 88 1 page that dissemination of information for this event, 2 that I don't believe we were intentionally trying to 3 bypass that department in any way of informing them of 4 anything. If we did inform them, great. I don't think 5 we did anything wrong, and I completely respect the 6 ability for that department to put on their -- their own 7 events or for this Court to approve the same. We simply 8 put on an event to honor our veterans. 9 And like Commissioner Belew said earlier, if 10 we didn't -- I don't believe that we intentionally 11 defied any type of order or mandate. But if we did, and 12 previously before in our history, we would not be here 13 in the United States had civil disobedience not occurred 14 in England. And we have fled from the King to be here 15 to ensure that our unalienable rights are secured by the 16 people. We would not be here had it not been for that. 17 I completely respect following the rule of 18 law. And Judge, you have over and over said that in 19 this meeting here. So if we do that, I believe that the 20 Court needs to make sure that we comply with strict 21 scrutiny as the Supreme Court has decided when creating 22 any type of policies and procedures and to put those on 23 the website and make sure that your constituents are 24 informed about that information. Thank you. 25 (Applause.) 89 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I don't know how to 2 turn that off but I'll get it. 3 Move on to the approval agenda, which is -- 4 there's no action on this, correct? 5 So we'll move on to the approval agenda, 6 which is 2.1 pay the bills. 7 MRS. SHELTON: Good morning. Invoices for 8 today's approval include $487,292.49 for Kerr County. 9 For County Clerk fees, $221.43. And for the 198th 10 District Attorney Forfeiture Fund, $405.00. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move we pay the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 14 Commissioner Moser, seconded by Commissioner Belew to 15 pay the bills. Any discussion? Those in favor raise 16 your hand. Don? 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yay. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Five zero. 19 Item 2.2 budget amendments. 20 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 21 JUDGE KELLY: 2.3 late bills? 22 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And 2.4. Auditor reports? 24 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 90 1 2.5 monthly reports. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't believe we have 3 any. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Is that right, Don? 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: None. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We'll move on to 2.6 7 court orders? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have our Court Order 9 from our November 9th meeting. Court Orders 38423 10 through 38439. I move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Second. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Motion's been made by 13 Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Moser to 14 approve the Court Orders as presented. Is there any 15 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand or say aye. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Aye. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Five zero. 18 Information agenda. Status reports from 19 department heads. I don't see any. 20 3.2 status report from elected officials? 21 And 3.3 status reports from liaison 22 commissioners? 23 I don't believe we have anything on 24 Executive Session. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: No, sir. 91 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 2 JUDGE KELLY: So there being no other 3 business before the Court, we are adjourned. 4 * * * * * * 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 92 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Special Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 22nd day of November, A.D. 10 2020. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2021 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25