1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, November 23, 2020 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 TOM MOSER, Commissioner Precinct 2 (via phone) 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 25 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioners' Comments. 5 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 8 action on request from the USDA Wildlife 5 Services to use Flat Rock Park for ATV training, dates will vary. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 7 action to enter into a Bank Consulting Agreement with Patterson & Associates for 8 Kerr County's 2021 Bank Depository RFP, and allow County Judge to sign same. 9 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 13 10 action on campaign protocol and guidelines for early voting at Hill Country Youth 11 Event Hall. 12 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action on request from Hill Country 13 District Junior Livestock Show Association to use Flat Rock Park, including Dog Park, 14 from 12 a.m. Thursday, January 14th, 2021 to 12 a.m. Sunday, January 24th, 2021 to 15 park trailers and use as staging area for delivery of animals, close park to other 16 vehicular traffic during this time period. 17 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 action on request from Hill Country 18 District Junior Livestock Show Association to close Riverside Drive from the southwest 19 corner of River Star Park to the southeast corner of the Hill Country Youth Event 20 Center grounds from 12 a.m. Thursday, January 14th to 12 a.m. Sunday, January 21 24th for the 2021 Stock Show. 22 23 24 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 21 action to appoint a member of Commissioners' 4 Court or designate a person to perform investigation under Section 751.005 of 5 the Texas Health & Safety Code for the purpose of determining if the minimum 6 standards for ensuring public safety and order as prescribed by law will be maintained 7 under application for a permit for mass gathering by the Hill Country District Junior 8 Livestock Show, hearing date to be determined. 9 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 25 action regarding the County Christmas party. 10 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 26 11 action to accept donation of PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) from the local U.S. 12 Census Bureau Office. 13 2.1 Pay Bills. 28 14 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 29 15 2.6 Court Orders. 29 16 3.1 Status reports from Department Heads. 30 17 3.3 Status reports from Liaison Commissioners. 30 18 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 33 action to authorize the County Clerk to 19 advertise for bids for the 2021 Road Reconstruction Project. 20 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 34 21 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10 a.m. on December 28th for 22 a revision of plat for the Estates at Turtle Creek Section Two, Lots 27 and 28, 23 Volume 6, Page 241. 24 25 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 36 action for the Court to approve a revision 4 of plat for Elm Pass Ranch No. 2, Tract 36A, to be known as Elm Pass Ranch No. 3, Volume 5 6, Page 248. 6 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 39 action for the Court to approve a final 7 plat for River Dance Ranch, Deed File No. 18-04003. 8 1.13 Public hearing for a revision of plat for 42 9 Cave Spring Addition Section Five Phase One, Lots 14 & 15 of Block B, Volume 5, Page 164. 10 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 43 11 action for the Court to approve a revision of plat for Cave Spring Addition Section 12 Five Phase One, Lots 14 and 15 of Block B, Volume 5, Page 164. 13 1.15 Public hearing for a petition to abandon 44 14 and discontinue road maintenance for approximately 495 feet of the end of Encino 15 Drive. 16 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 54 action to consider a petition to abandon 17 and discontinue the road maintenance for approximately 495 feet at the end of Encino 18 Drive. 19 1.17 Public Hearing to consider the installation 92 of STOP signs in all directions at the 20 intersection of Mosty Lane and Second Street. 21 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 92 22 action to consider the installation of STOP signs in all directions at the 23 intersection of Mosty Lane and Second Street. 24 1.19 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 96 25 action for the Court to approve a Final Plat for Alma Acres, Deed No. 15-6676. 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Adjournment. 98 4 *** Reporter's Certificate. 99 5 * * * * * * 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good morning. November 2 23rd, it's 9 o'clock, and we have a regular 3 Commissioners' Court meeting this morning. And we will 4 start with the prayer and pledge, which will be led by 5 Commissioner Belew. 6 (Prayer and Pledge of Allegiance.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Judge Kelly 8 is out this week, and Commissioner Moser is on the 9 phone, so we have four of us that are here today. 10 Start out with Commissioners' Comments. Commissioner 11 Belew. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I went to the wild game 13 dinner in Gillespie County over the weekend. And they 14 really had a good setup. Everybody got their 15 temperature taken on the way in, and if you cleared 16 that, then you were clear to have fun. They had 17 everybody spread out pretty good outdoors eating. And 18 it was a smart way to handle a large gathering. A very 19 smart way. So it would be a good model for us, anything 20 we do in the near future to take a look at what they did 21 there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Moser? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Yes. Thank you, 24 Commissioner Letz. Several things in that are happening 25 in economic development in Precinct 2. There's a 7 1 residential development that's in conceptual planning 2 activities. Several things still pending and couldn't 3 happen at the airport. Not go into any detail right 4 now. And the new quarry is in operation. I think 5 quarry operators are happy, but some of the neighbors 6 are not. So when we get COVID-wise we'll have a town 7 hall meeting and discuss that. So that's it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Commissioner 9 Harris. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We need some rain. We 11 need some rain. It varies in different areas. But I 12 will comment on the West Kerr Chamber had a mixer last 13 Thursday. It was held at the Hill Country Youth Ranch 14 thrift store in Ingram, and it was well attended and it 15 was -- it was a fun activity. So if you're a small 16 business out there or just an individual, I'd encourage 17 you to join the West Kerr Chamber. That's it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have two comments. 19 One, over the weekend, or I guess on the 21st, maybe 20 Saturday, the Christmas Lighting Corporation kind of 21 coordinated a lighting event, a virtual event, and 22 pretty well lit up Sidney Baker, Tranquility Island, the 23 Courthouse, and did some other stuff down in the lower 24 part of downtown Kerrville. I think it went off without 25 a hitch. Done very well. And thanks to George Eychner 8 1 and his committee for really spearheading and getting 2 that done with the challenging times. 3 Another comment that I'd like to make is 4 that I think it was pretty publicly known that the 5 courthouse had a little outbreak of COVID a couple weeks 6 ago. And I just want to thank all of the -- and that's 7 greatly reduced. We have very few employees that are 8 still out active. We have some that are still 9 quarantined. But active cases went way, way down. And 10 I want to thank the employees, elected officials, 11 department heads. They really got on top of that 12 quickly and pushed those numbers way down. 13 Anyway, that's all I had. I went a little 14 bit out of order this morning. Go back up to public 15 input. Is there anyone from the public that wanted to 16 make any public comment this morning? I don't see 17 anyone. 18 So we'll go on to the Consideration Agenda. 19 First item is consider, discuss and take appropriate 20 action on request from the USDA Wildlife Services to use 21 Flat Rock Park for ATV training, dates will vary. Jude 22 Sandoval. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right there at the 24 podium, yeah. You can take your mask off to speak if 25 you want. 9 1 MR. SANDOVAL: Good morning, folks. 2 Appreciate y'all taking the time to listen to me this 3 morning. All I'm asking is for the use of Flat Rock 4 Park for ATV training. We hold it quarterly, just 5 depends on how many people we have, it's throughout the 6 State, that are interested in taking it. 7 It's a National ATV Training Course that I'm 8 the trainer. And so I'm just looking for a place that 9 we can use to park. And in the past we haven't had any 10 problems, we've used it. And I'm just kind of following 11 through, making -- going through the proper protocol to 12 get your permission. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You mind if I ask you, 14 what's some of the training? 15 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, it's got a course, it's 16 about a hundred feet that's got some cones, and we have 17 ATVs, and we go through -- around the course, stopping, 18 going up hills. It lasts about five hours. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 20 MR. SANDOVAL: And generally can average 21 between two to five people. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. Sure. I move 23 for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I've got a -- if I may 25 interrupt. I got a couple questions. This has been 10 1 done in the past, and works out well. But where in the 2 park are you planning to do it, when and for how long? 3 MR. SANDOVAL: Well, the dates vary. It 4 generally could be every three months or it could be 5 four months. And we've been doing this for almost 15 6 years. And we started out in the so-called Dog Park 7 portion, which never was a problem. We were able to go 8 set up our course with some cones and some flags the 9 night before, and didn't have to worry about anybody 10 taking them or knocking them down. And then this last 11 two years, I've had to move to the Flat Rock portion, 12 which was further west on the park. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Does the Dog Park work 14 for ya? 15 MR. SANDOVAL: It really does. It's more 16 secluded and it's been easier to get to and quicker to 17 get out. And so it has in the past. 18 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I -- my 19 recommendation is let's limit it to the Dog Park then, 20 if that works. But I think -- I think you need to -- 21 you know, you're going to know -- let all your people 22 know in advance, I think you need to come back to the 23 Court on the -- well, on the dates that you want to do 24 it and the time. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, it -- 11 1 would it be acceptable to you if he notified you and our 2 Maintenance Department as to the dates rather than have 3 him come back? 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, that -- that'll 5 be okay. Just as long as we can put a notice up -- 6 MR. SANDOVAL: Sure. 7 COMMISSIONER MOSER: -- for people in the 8 Dog Park area that know when it's going to happen. 9 MR. SANDOVAL: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Good point. 11 MR. SANDOVAL: I don't have a problem with 12 that. And normally we've been working with Maintenance 13 Supervisor Evans and it's worked out well. I call him, 14 give him a date, and then just confirm after it's done. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER MOSER: That works. Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is there a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. I made a 19 motion. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Just as long as we can 22 host it there at the entrance to the Dog Park, you know, 23 like you'll know a week in advance. If you'll do that, 24 that would be perfect. 25 MR. SANDOVAL: Yes. Yes. It could be up to 12 1 two weeks in advance notice. 2 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. I'll move for 3 approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: He couldn't hear us. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion and a 6 second. Commissioner Harris already made the motion. 7 You have the second, Commissioner Moser. 8 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, I didn't hear it. 9 Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 11 Harris, second from Commissioner Moser to approve the 12 request from the USDA Wildlife Services to use Flat Rock 13 Park for ATV training. And they will notify 14 Commissioner Moser and Maintenance Director at least a 15 week in advance of those events. Any additional 16 discussion? All in favor say aye or -- 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- raise your hand. 19 Unanimous, four zero. 20 MR. SANDOVAL: Thank you. Certainly 21 appreciate it. Do I need to leave this with anybody? 22 MRS. STEBBINS: I'll take it. 23 MR. SANDOVAL: Okay. Thank you. Y'all have 24 a very good day. Nice Thanksgiving, too. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 1.2 consider, 13 1 discuss and take appropriate action to enter into a Bank 2 Consulting Agreement with Patterson & Associates for 3 Kerr County's 2021 Bank Depository RFP, and allow County 4 Judge to sign the same. Tracy Soldan. 5 MS. SOLDAN: Good morning. So we are 6 needing to go out to bid again for our depository 7 contract. We did this back in 2015, and also used 8 Patterson & Associates to help review the bids that came 9 in. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 13 Belew, second by Commissioner Harris to approve the 14 agenda item to authorize Patterson & Associates to go 15 out for RFP Bank Depository for 2021. Any further 16 discussion? All in favor say aye or raise your hand. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 19 MS. SOLDAN: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 21 Item 1.3 consider, discuss and take 22 appropriate action on campaign protocol and guidelines 23 for early voting at Hill Country Youth Event Hall. 24 Commissioner Harris. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. After our last 14 1 round of voting and what have you, we -- we ran into 2 some problems with the different candidates as far as 3 signs and parking and different things out at the Hill 4 Country Youth Event Center. 5 And while it's fresh on our mind, I thought 6 it would be good to form a committee to try to set in 7 place some policy going forward the next time, if we 8 have them again at -- the elections there at the Hill 9 Country Youth Event Center. 10 And with Commissioner Belew having just been 11 a candidate and being -- spending a lot of time out 12 there, I think it would be good to have a committee of 13 maybe him and myself and Jake Williamson, and maybe try 14 to set this into place. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll do that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. You want anyone 17 from law enforcement? 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It wouldn't hurt. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Not a bad idea. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: In fact, we can start 21 out the first of the year and maybe get our 22 Sheriff-Elect in on the committee as well. So I move 23 that we form a committee of myself, Commissioner Belew, 24 Jake Williamson and Larry Leitha, our Sheriff-Elect. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think you can 15 1 volunteer for him, but I would like to participate in 2 that because there will be regulations and rules that we 3 have to stay within before adopting policy. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. This is mostly 5 for -- you know, you have the rules that the State 6 requires that you stay a certain distance back and so 7 on. It's logistics mostly -- 8 MRS. STEBBINS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that I observed out 10 there. But you're right, you should approve all that. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. So if you don't want 12 me in the committee, that's great, and I'll just review 13 it after I make my recommendation. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, and -- and I 15 spoke with the Judge about this and he -- he would also 16 like to -- to give information. Not necessarily be on 17 the committee, but at least share his input with us on 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, a recommendation-- 20 I mean, the committee obviously can speak with who they 21 want, but then a recommendation would come back to the 22 Court, correct? 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Without a 24 doubt. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. Sure. 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So Heather, do you want 2 to be on the committee or not on the committee? Or do 3 you just want -- 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Or input or -- 5 MRS. STEBBINS: I would like to just -- 6 I'll give you guys some guidelines and rules, if you'd 7 like, just a memo from me and if you have any questions 8 let me know and I'll be gad to attend whatever meeting 9 y'all have. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Perfect. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a second? 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 16 Harris, second from Commissioner Belew to form a 17 committee to review campaign protocol and guidelines for 18 voting at the Hill Country Youth Event Center. The 19 committee would be Don Harris, Harley Belew, Larry 20 Leitha, a Sheriff representative, and Jake Williamson, 21 with input from the County Attorney as needed. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This will take place 24 after the first of the year. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Any further 2 discussion? All in favor say aye or raise your hand. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 5 Item 1.4 consider, discuss and take 6 appropriate action on request from the Hill Country 7 District Junior Livestock Show Association to use Flat 8 Rock Park, including Dog Park, from 12 a.m. Thursday, 9 January 14th, 2021 to 12 a.m. Sunday, January 24th, 2021 10 to park trailers and use as staging area for delivery of 11 animals, close park to other vehicular traffic during 12 this time period. Mr. Bauer. 13 MR. BAUER: Good morning, Commissioners. 14 Thank y'all for taking time. Making that appearance 15 like we do every time. This year it's under a little 16 different circumstances, but we'd like to explain on the 17 order that's written as Commissioner Letz read, we have 18 extended the period of time. That is part of the plans 19 that we are doing with the show, still trying to move 20 forward and have a show. 21 We have extended the period of time, spread 22 the show out. We're moving our cattle up to the front 23 end of the show, and spreading some things out to 24 accommodate the social distancing and so forth that we 25 need to do to make this happen. 18 1 But this is our request again that we can 2 use that park to park our trailers and the staging area 3 and keep everything separated and flowing freely and off 4 of the main highways. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So while you're 6 extending the period a little bit, you're probably 7 decreasing the density? 8 MR. BAUER: Yes, sir. And I can touch on 9 that if you would like. We are limiting the amount of 10 people that will be attending. It will be the 11 exhibitors only, and two parents, or two wristbands per 12 family unit. We're not going to -- and I'm going to 13 apologize up front. We're sorry grandparents and aunts 14 and uncles, but we value our youth, and we want to 15 protect them and we want to protect the public. 16 And we feel like we can get them in, let 17 them have this show, the projects that they have worked 18 on for so long, and meet an end to it and move forward. 19 And hopefully after next year -- or after this year it 20 passes and we can go back to a normal one. But we're 21 making some concessions, yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion from 19 1 Commissioner Harris, second from Commissioner Belew to 2 approve the agenda item as requested. Any additional 3 discussion? All in favor raise your hand or say aye. 4 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's unanimous. 6 Item 1.5 consider, discuss and take 7 appropriate action on request from Hill Country District 8 Junior Livestock Show Association to close Riverside 9 Drive from the southwest corner of River Star Park to 10 the southeast corner of the Hill Country Youth Event 11 Center grounds from 12 a.m. Thursday, January 14th to 12 12 a.m. Sunday, January 24th for the 2021 Stock Show. 13 Mr. Bauer. 14 MR. BAUER: Yes, sir. Again, the same as we 15 have in the past, to close Riverside because we do the 16 staging and pulling the trailers and trucks up through 17 that area. It's a safety measure. We'll also contact 18 KISD about their bus routes at that time as well. But 19 it's just a safety measure to get those things off the 20 state highway and around the back where they can stage 21 and safely enter and exit the grounds. 22 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 25 Moser, second by Commissioner Harris to approve the 20 1 agenda item as requested. Any further discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now Steve, you know we 3 now have that dynamic sign that you can use to direct 4 traffic. Did we use that last year or did we have -- 5 MR. BAUER: No, sir. I don't believe we did 6 at that time. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. If you'll let 8 Road & Bridge know when you need it, it'll tell people 9 where to go and park. 10 MR. BAUER: Excellent. Thank you. We will. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, and actually if 13 you want two of them you might could get one from TxDOT 14 as well. We did that during early voting out there. We 15 had one and then they brought an additional one. 16 MR. BAUER: Okay. I will get with our TxDot 17 crew that does our parking and see what they can do. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, so we -- you 19 could have one on both sides, on River Road and on 27. 20 MR. BAUER: Right. Correct. Okay. Great. 21 Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Motion and 23 second. Any more discussion? All in favor raise your 24 hand or say aye. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 21 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous. 2 Item 1.6 consider, discuss and take 3 appropriate action to appoint a member of Commissioners' 4 Court or designate a person to perform investigation 5 under Section 751.005 of the Texas Health & Safety Code 6 for the purpose of determining if the minimum standards 7 for ensuring public safety and order as prescribed by 8 law will be maintained under application for a permit 9 for mass gathering by the Hill Country District Junior 10 Livestock Show, hearing date to be determined. 11 This is something we do every year. This 12 goes to the Mass Gathering Permit. I understand that's 13 going to be -- it's in the works and it's going to be 14 turned in -- 15 MR. BAUER: It should be in filed with Jody 16 by the end of the week. Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And I think last 18 year Commissioner Harris did this, and I would ask that 19 he be the representative of the Commissioners' Court 20 again. 21 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Commissioner Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes? 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: In light of the COVID 24 activities and all the other things, I recommend that we 25 consider Dub Thomas to fill that position. 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Dub could be 2 involved with it and he will be, but I think 3 Commissioner -- the agenda item states a member of the 4 Commissioners' Court that is the designee of the Court. 5 And I think it's a good suggestion that Dub be involved 6 with that and Commissioner Harris can work with Dub 7 Thomas. If that's acceptable. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sounds good. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So we're making a 10 motion that Don Harris be that person designee from 11 Commissioners' Court, so I'll make a motion. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 13 Belew, and I'll go ahead and second, that Commissioner 14 Harris get with and consult with Dub Thomas as well, 15 regarding the mass gathering permit that is required for 16 the Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show. Any 17 additional discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Is there anything 20 under the Governor's orders about issuing mass gathering 21 acts because of all this COVID, and also with the 22 expansion of the days and the limitations of the number 23 of people, will it actually even qualify that we have to 24 do one out there? 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The Governor's going to 23 1 UT games so I think we're safe. I think we're fine. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a totally 3 different -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, it's not a 5 different -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just curious. But 7 I mean, does it even require one? 8 MR. BAUER: We've looked at the population, 9 Sheriff, and -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of the number 11 of kids? 12 MR. BAUER: -- and it's just the number of 13 kids, the minors and everything involved -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, that's what I was 15 wondering. 16 MR. BAUER: -- is what catches -- the 17 population we could probably get by with, but because of 18 the minors involved, yes, sir, we feel we do. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only thing I 20 would say because they show up every year out there, is 21 that Heather may check to make sure that it can be done 22 during this because the Health Department shows up every 23 year. 24 MR. BAUER: I'm sure they do. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if it can't, I 24 1 would hate to get this thing started and they end up 2 coming in and shutting it down because we couldn't issue 3 one. Not that we want to hamper it because, you know, 4 it needs to be done. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I visited with -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we need to see 7 what the Health Department's attitude is going to be on 8 mass gatherings. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I visited with 10 Mr. Reeves a little bit about this, and my understanding 11 is, and correct me if I'm not correct, Steve, but the 12 numbers are going to be about half, probably, of the 13 occupancy of that building. So we're going to be well 14 within the occupancy limit for an indoor gathering. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. I think what 16 triggers it, like Steve was saying, is the -- is it 500? 17 MR. BAUER: I think it's 500. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 500 kids for any 19 certain amount of time after so -- after certain hours 20 and all that kind of stuff that -- that require having 21 it. 22 MR. BAUER: When we first began looking at 23 it with the numbers like the Sheriff is discussing, we 24 thought, oh, we could get under this this year by 25 limiting. But because of the requirements of the 25 1 minors, that -- which is another requirement that we 2 have to meet, that's what caught us. And we know -- 3 and that's why. 4 But I -- I've been visiting with the Judge a 5 little bit, I think, on this as we've gone along, and I 6 agree with the Sheriff. If we need to visit with the 7 State Health Department, make sure that this falls under 8 the mandate, that we're going to be fine before we move 9 forward, or we need to make any other adjustments, you 10 know, the sooner we can make those adjustments to help 11 our exhibitors, the better off we'll be. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be part of this process 13 to get the permit. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I would 15 recommend. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. Any 17 further discussion? All in favor of the approval of the 18 agenda item raise your hand or say aye. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 Item 1.7 consider, discuss and take 22 appropriate action regarding the County Christmas party. 23 This is more in the form of an announcement, 24 and I visited with Jody a little bit on this and also 25 the Judge. And it is felt that cancelling the Christmas 26 1 Party as we've usually done it is -- probably makes 2 sense this year and is the best option. So the current 3 plans are not to have the Annual Christmas -- the County 4 Christmas Party at the Hill Country Youth Event Center 5 where we invite all County employees. 6 Hate to do that, but we just think that it's 7 very difficult. It would almost be impossible to do 8 that under the current guidelines in a safe manner. So 9 that's putting in an announcement. 10 Item 1.8 consider, discuss and take 11 appropriate action to accept donation of PPE (Personal 12 Protective Equipment) from the local U.S. Census Bureau 13 Office. 14 MRS. GRINSTEAD: We received a call last 15 week from Billy, and since the census is over they're 16 closing down the local office and they want to donate -- 17 it'll be masks, hand sanitizer and gloves for the 18 County. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good. Is there a set 20 number, or just whatever they have left? 21 MRS. GRINSTEAD: It's whatever they have 22 left. He said it would probably be -- though he didn't 23 have the definite numbers, about ten cases of masks, and 24 they're 500 per case -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good grief. 27 1 MRS. GRINSTEAD: -- and ten cases of hand 2 sanitizer. He said those were the individual sizes, and 3 probably one case of gloves. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's surplus, 5 really. 6 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Question. Can the 7 County then disperse those as we choose? 8 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Yes. Yeah. The donations 9 are for us to use as we choose to use. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Okay. Move for 11 approval. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got a motion from 14 Commissioner Moser, second from Commissioner Harris to 15 accept the donation of PPE from the local U.S. Census 16 Bureau Office. Any additional discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All in favor raise our 18 hand or say aye. 19 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous. 21 The next item is a timed item for 9 o'clock. 22 So why don't we go on to the -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Ten o'clock. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean 10 o'clock, 25 excuse me. Thank you. 28 1 Let's go on to the Approval Agenda. I'll 2 take a five-minute break so we can get some people in 3 here because we're a little bit ahead of schedule. So 4 at 9:30 we'll go to the Approval Agenda. We'll be in 5 recess five minutes. 6 (Recess.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, it's 9:30. 8 Let's move on with the Approval Agenda. Auditor? 9 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Today's invoices for 10 your consideration: $6,744.34 for Kerr County for the 11 last fiscal year. For the current fiscal year we have 12 $301,432.63 for Kerr County. The Airport, $3,304.16. 13 Adult Probation, $27,431.91. Juvenile Probation, 14 $431.94. District Clerk fees of $6,950.40. And the 15 198th DA Forfeiture Fund, $1,178.35. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got a motion from 19 Commissioner Belew, seconded by Commissioner Harris to 20 approve the Treasurer's disbursements for 11-23-20. Any 21 further discussion? All in favor raise your hand or say 22 aye. 23 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's unanimous. Four 25 zero. 29 1 Budget amendments? 2 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Late bills? 4 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Auditor reports? 6 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monthly reports? 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. October 2020 9 fines, judgments, and jury fees collected. J.P. 3, 10 Kathy Mitchell. J.P. 4, Bill Ragsdale. District Clerk, 11 Dawn Lantz. County Treasurer, Tracy Soldan. 12 Environmental Health, OSSF Director, Ashli Badders. 13 Animal Control Services, Director Regan Givens. I move 14 for approval. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 17 Harris, second from Commissioner Belew to approve the -- 18 or accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 19 discussion? All in favor raise your hand or say aye. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's unanimous. 22 Court Orders. We have the court orders from 23 November 16th, 2020. Court Order 38440 through 38445. 24 They all look to be in order. I'll make a motion to 25 approve. 30 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by myself, second 3 by Commissioner Harris to approve the court orders. Any 4 discussion? All in favor raise your hand or say aye. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four zero, it's 7 unanimous. 8 Information Agenda. Department Heads. I 9 see we have one coming up. 10 MR. MOTHERAL: Good morning, gentlemen. I 11 wanted to let you all know that we had filled the 12 position that was vacant in the IT Department and should 13 be starting next week. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 15 MR. MOTHERAL: That's all I got. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: A bat cave member. 17 (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Status reports from 19 Elected Officials. Any? None. 20 Status reports from Liaison Commissioners. 21 Commissioner Belew, anything? 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, Historical 23 Commission is not meeting yet. I don't have anything 24 else from any of the other. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Moser? 31 1 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Nothing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Commissioner 3 Harris? 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Extension. There -- 5 we still haven't -- they still haven't filled our -- our 6 Extension Agent place. They have filled some across the 7 State, I believe about 20. But some of those counties 8 didn't have a person, period. You know, we're -- we're 9 kind of fortunate. We're a little bit bigger, and 10 Jennifer Smith's filling in and doing a good job out 11 there filling those shoes right now. So we're getting 12 closer but we're not there yet, according to them. So 13 that's all I have. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I think the only 15 comment or update that I have is the progress on the 16 Hill Country Regional Public Defender's Office. That 17 committee met for its first organizational meeting last 18 week. Judge Williams will be the chair of that 19 committee. I think all of the counties have appointed 20 their representative. Most of them were in attendance. 21 And applications have come in for the Chief 22 Public Defender, who kind of runs the office, and those 23 applications, I believe, I want to say December 3rd or 24 4th, somewhere in there, they will be gone over. And 25 there are three, I guess, kind of came up on top of the 32 1 resumes during the first round. 2 And the committee will be -- that will 3 interview them initially will be Judge Kelly, Judge 4 Evans, Judge Schuchart, and Keith Williams. They'll, I 5 believe -- that's the questioning committee. HR 6 director from Kerr County, Jennifer Doss, and also 7 from -- Moody, I think her name is, from Medina County 8 will be there to keep them in line or try to keep 9 those -- that group in line. 10 And then the rest of the committee will be 11 in attendance but -- and can ask questions, but will -- 12 intended not to participate too much. So that -- that's 13 set up to go. Some good candidates. Probably not quite 14 as many top candidates that we -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Not as much interest? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we had like ten 17 applications. Some of them really just weren't 18 qualified, and others were very qualified in looking 19 through them. So we should come up with a good option 20 there. 21 That's all I have. And we're still way 22 ahead of schedule, so we'll be in recess until ten 23 o'clock. 24 (Recess.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. It's ten 33 1 o'clock, we'll call Commissioners' Court back to order. 2 There's some ten o'clock timed items. 3 Item 1.9 consider, discuss and take 4 appropriate action to authorize the County Clerk to 5 advertise for bids for the 2021 Road Reconstruction 6 Project. Precinct 1 and 3. Mr. Hastings. 7 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. Plan 8 specifications have been prepared by the County Engineer 9 for the reconstruction of approximately 1.5 miles of 10 County maintained roads. In 2018, the project included 11 Indian Creek Road and Rim Rock Road. In 2019, the 12 project consisted of Peterson Farm Road intersection 13 with 27. That was a realignment. The Sutherland Lane 14 intersection between Sutherland, another realignment. 15 Upper Turtle Creek Road, Hermann Sons Road, and Elm 16 Pass II Road. 17 In 2020, just this past year, the project 18 included Wedgewood Lane and Wild Timber Drive. 19 The 2021 proposed Road Reconstruction 20 Project consists of the following roads: Westway Drive, 21 Tree Lane, Roy Street, Jonas Drive, and Lowrance Street. 22 The project schedule is to advertise on 23 Wednesday, November the 25th, and Wednesday, December 24 the 2nd of 2020. There will be a pre-bid conference at 25 2 p.m. on December 7th, 2020. Bids would be due 2 p.m. 34 1 January the 8th, 2021. And the bid opening and award 2 would be that following Monday, which is a 3 Commissioners' Court day, 10 a.m., January 11th, 2021. 4 County Engineer requests the Court authorize 5 the County Clerk to advertise for bids the 2021 Road 6 Reconstruction Project, Precincts 1 and 3, on November 7 the 25th and December the 2nd. Those will be the two 8 days for the advertising. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 12 Belew, second from Commissioner Harris to approve the 13 agenda item as presented. Any further discussion? All 14 in favor raise your hand or say aye. 15 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 17 Item 1.10 consider, discuss and take 18 appropriate action for the Court to set a public hearing 19 for 10 a.m. on December 28th for a revision of plat for 20 the Estates at Turtle Creek Section Two, Lots 27 and 28, 21 Volume 6, Page 247(sic), Precinct 2. 22 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This proposal 23 adjusts the lot line between Lot 27 and Lot 28. Lot 27R 24 will be 3.67 acres, and Lot 28R will be 2.99 acres. The 25 property access and road frontage to both lots will 35 1 remain on Estates Drive. 2 Should be noted that Lot 27 currently has 3 102 feet of road frontage. This proposed revision will 4 increase that to 128, and Lot 28R will have about 274 5 feet of frontage. 6 The County Engineer requests the Court set a 7 public hearing for 10 a.m. on December 28, 2020 for a 8 revision of plat for Estates at Turtle Creek Section 9 Two, Lots 27 and 28, Volume 6, Page 241, Precinct 2. 10 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion and a 13 second. Is there -- question. The date of that public 14 hearing right over the holidays, is there a reason that 15 it needs to be done? Is there a time sensitivity to 16 this item? 17 MR. HASTINGS: I'm assuming there is, but I 18 don't know for sure. It's a lot line adjustment. I 19 don't know if there's a sale pending or anything like 20 that. We don't -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's a 22 representative from Voelkel out in the hallway. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Is he? Is he still here? 24 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Jonathan, it is a 25 regular session, though. 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. HASTINGS: Do you know if that's time 3 sensitive, the one for Estates at -- 4 MR. VINCENT VOELKEL: Yes, it is. 5 MR. HASTINGS: It is. Yes, that one is. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. It's 7 time sensitive. All right. We have a motion from 8 Commissioner Moser, second was from Commissioner 9 Harris -- Harris to approve the agenda item to set the 10 public hearing December 28th at 10 a.m., for the Estates 11 at Turtle Creek Section Two, Lots 27 and 28, Volume 6, 12 Page 241. Any further discussion? All in favor raise 13 your hand or say aye. 14 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 16 Item 1.11 consider, discuss and take 17 appropriate action for the Court to approve a revision 18 of plat for Elm Pass Ranch No. 2, Tract 36A, to be known 19 as Elm Pass Ranch No. 3, Volume 6, Page 248, in 20 Precinct 2. Mr. Hastings. 21 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This proposal 22 subdivides Elm Pass Ranch No. 2, Tract 36A into nine 23 lots, and it will be known as Elm Pass Ranch No. 3. The 24 public hearing was held on November the 9th, 2020. 25 The County Engineer requests the Court 37 1 approve the revision of plat for Elm Pass Ranch No. 2, 2 Tract 36A, to be known as Elm Pass Ranch No. 3, 3 Volume 6, Page 248, Precinct 2. 4 And I will note that they did end up 5 conducting a flood study on this, so that we could 6 establish the minimum finished floor elevations and put 7 that on the plat. That was the delay in not having it 8 ready on the same day as the public hearing. But it is 9 ready now. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There's ample road 11 access here, Charlie? 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Frontage and so on? 14 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. These are all off the 15 pretty -- pretty large tract of land. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. They're all about 17 11 acres plus or minus. 18 MR. HASTINGS: 10, 11 acres. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It looks like up at 20 the -- in the north part of it, that it might -- might 21 not be. 22 MR. HASTINGS: There's -- there's an 23 average -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How are they going 25 to -- I mean, that's for them to work out. But they've 38 1 assured you that that's all going to have plenty of road 2 frontage? 3 MR. HASTINGS: Oh. They have -- they have 4 adequate road frontage along Elm Pass Road. The 5 smallest one is 300 feet. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It doesn't appear 7 there's any road at the north end of it. 8 MR. HASTINGS: There's a road on the -- on 9 the left side of your plat. It wraps around. That's 10 Elm Pass II. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Uh-huh. 12 MR. HASTINGS: There's an additional road 13 that -- where we have an issue with -- someone has a 14 gate across it, that goes back behind these lots, and 15 that's being worked out. There's an attorney involved. 16 I know the County Attorney has talked with those 17 attorneys, and that's also known as Russell Ranch Road. 18 It is a private road. Privately maintained. But it's 19 public, so it shouldn't have a gate across it. That is 20 a separate issue from this. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. I see it on this 22 here. So this is the access? 23 MR. HASTINGS: That's Elm Pass II right 24 there. Yes, sir. So these lots all have dual frontage 25 actually. But they're going to use Elm Pass II, most -- 39 1 most likely. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Did -- I thought there 4 was a motion. 5 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So move. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Moser made 8 the motion, Commissioner Belew second to approve the 9 revision of plat for Elm Pass 2 -- Elm Pass Ranch No. 2, 10 Tract 36A, to be known as Elm Pass Ranch No. 3. Any 11 further discussion? All in favor raise your hand or say 12 aye. 13 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 15 Item 1.12 consider, discuss and take 16 appropriate action for the Court to approve a final plat 17 for River Dance Ranch, Deed File No. 18-04003. 18 Precinct 4. 19 MR. HASTINGS: This proposed subdivision 20 contains three lots off of State Highway 39. Each lot 21 will be greater than five acres, and 1.3 acres will be 22 dedicated to TxDOT as right-of-way for State Highway 39. 23 The road already exists through there, it's just it's 24 never been dedicated as right-of-way. That's very 25 common in the Hunt area. 40 1 Proposed access to each lot will be from 2 shared access easements off of Highway 39. That's a 3 TxDOT requirement to limit the number of driveways on 4 Highway 39. 5 This subdivision is partially within the 6 floodplain and must meet requirements for development 7 within the floodplain. 8 County Engineer requests the Court approve 9 the final plat for River Dance Ranch, Precinct 4. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got a motion from 13 Commissioner Harris, second from Commissioner Belew -- 14 Charlie, what's that little -- the tract in the middle? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good question. 16 MR. HASTINGS: That's tied to that property 17 right across the -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's tied to the 19 property across from it? 20 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. Yes, it is. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: River access. 22 MR. HASTINGS: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We have a motion 24 from Commissioner Harris, second from Commissioner 25 Belew. 41 1 MR. HASTINGS: Did you want to -- 2 MR. VINCENT VOELKEL: I want to ask a 3 question. These are -- some of these are time sensitive 4 and the Judge, I believe, is going to be out of town. 5 Is there some way we could get someone else on the court 6 to sign? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What's it worth to ya? 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On all these items -- I 11 visited with County Attorney ahead of time, if the 12 County Judge isn't present, generally it would be 13 administratively and I have authority to sign as the 14 presiding officer today. So -- but on all these that we 15 have it probably should be clear that Commissioner Letz 16 has authority to sign these plats. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is there a notation on 18 those kind of documents when somebody looks them up 19 later? 20 MRS. DOWDY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: There is. 22 MRS. DOWDY: A record number and -- and 23 that's with a subdivision name, date. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No provisional designee 25 for signing? 42 1 MRS. DOWDY: Oh. Yes, I -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is there some 3 indication that -- 4 MRS. STEBBINS: There's a Court Order. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- that is a provision? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a Court Order 7 that authorizes -- but on these type of matters we could 8 always designate any Commissioner to sign these, which 9 is kind of for the Judge. But since the Judge isn't 10 here today and some of these do need to be signed. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we have a motion from 13 Commissioner Harris, second from Commissioner Belew to 14 approve the final plat for River Dance Ranch, Deed File 15 No. 18-04003 in Precinct 4. Any further discussion? 16 All in favor raise your hand or say aye. 17 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four zero, it's 19 unanimous. 20 Item 1.13 public hearing. There's to be a 21 public hearing for a revision of plat for Cave Spring 22 Addition Section Five Phase One, Lots 14 and 15 of 23 Block B, Volume 5, Page 164. 24 This is a public hearing. Is there anyone 25 that would like to speak at this public hearing? 43 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Anybody want to talk to 2 the public hearing -- over which item? 3 MR. HASTINGS: 1.13. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 1.13? 5 No, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no one that 7 wants to speak to that item, so we'll move on to 8 Item 1.14 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 9 for the Court to approve a revision of plat for Cave 10 Spring Addition Section Five Phase One, Lots 14 and 15 11 of Block B, recorded in Volume 5, Page 164, Precinct 4. 12 Mr. Hastings. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. This proposal 14 combines Lots 14 and 15 into Lot 14A, which will be 1.86 15 acres. Property access and road frontage is on Rimrock 16 Circle. We just held a public hearing on this, nobody 17 spoke. 18 The County Engineer requests the Court 19 approve a revision of plat for Cave Spring Addition 20 Section Five Phase One, Lots 14 and 15 of Lot B, Volume 21 5, Page 164, Precinct 4. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just combining and 23 getting rid of the lot line and making two small lots 24 bigger? 25 MR. HASTINGS: Correct. 44 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 4 Harris, second by Commissioner Belew to approve the 5 revision of plat for Cave Spring Addition Section Five 6 Phase One, Lots 14 and 15 of Lot B, recorded in 7 Volume 5, Page 164. Any further discussion? All in 8 favor raise your hand or say aye. 9 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous. 11 Item 1.15, another public hearing. Open the 12 public hearing for a petition to abandon and discontinue 13 road maintenance for approximately 495 feet at the end 14 of Encino Drive, Precinct 1. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Anybody wishing to 16 speak on 1.15? Have y'all turned in a request? 17 If you'll wait just a minute. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wait just a minute. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this Ms. McGraw? 21 MS. MCGRAW: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Just give us your 23 name and address, please. 24 MS. MCGRAW: I'm Nancy J. McGraw at 129 25 Encino Drive. We're right next to the 140 address. 45 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Ma'am, if you wish to 2 remove that where we can hear you better, you can while 3 you're speaking. 4 MS. MCGRAW: Okay. I'm just saying is I 5 have no problem with that gate being across the road 6 there. And I don't see any turnout -- reason for a 7 turnout down there. Of course, we're obviously not 8 going to be donating any land to do that. 9 And so if they wanted to put a driveway 10 across our property, across from where there's a 11 driveway already there at that section, it's fine. If 12 you guys want to put that in, that's great. But I don't 13 see any reason why we need a turnout or -- that gate 14 doesn't bother us. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Looks like 16 Richard -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Martin? Is that 19 correct? 20 MR. MARTIN: Good morning. Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good morning. You can 22 remove your mask, it makes it easier to speak, and give 23 us your name and address, please. 24 MR. MARTIN: Not much to look at. Hello, 25 Harley, how are you? 46 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Good. How are you? 2 MR. MARTIN: Good. Richard Martin, 120 3 Encino Drive, Kerrville South. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Comments? 5 MR. MARTIN: I'm here to support them. I'm 6 not sure what I'm supposed to comment on. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just a public 8 hearing -- 9 MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on the -- I guess a 11 public hearing on the request to abandon that portion of 12 the road. 13 MR. MARTIN: Okay. I did sign on for that 14 to happen. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So you're okay 16 with the abandoning of the road? 17 MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir, I am. Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: See, we're not used to 20 this, Pastor. Most people come to complain. So you've 21 shocked us a little bit. 22 MR. MARTIN: Okay. I get to do that every 23 Sunday, so -- Especially to your friend, Melvin Graham. 24 (Laughter.) 25 MR. MARTIN: So it's my understanding that 47 1 the County has an easement past her property that begins 2 at her gate and goes uphill about 450 feet or so, 500, 3 whatever, and that she'd been wanting to abandon it for 4 some time. And I think she got the whole subdivision to 5 sign off to that, if that's correct -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. 7 MR. MARTIN: -- that it does not have a 8 turnaround or -- and if a turnaround was established and 9 somebody -- some property owner would have to give up 10 some of the property to do that, and no one's willing to 11 do that. 12 And I think emergency vehicle went out there 13 last week or so and tested that, and they were able to 14 turn around without that. And so, that's all I know. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. MARTIN: Very simple really. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you. 18 MR. MARTIN: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have an e-mail that 20 came in related to this from a Mr. -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah I don't know how 22 to pronounce it either. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Arnulfo Bocanegra, I 24 believe is how you say the name. And it's not that 25 long. I'll go ahead and read it and any comment. 48 1 For the Court hearing on November 23rd. On 2 November 15th, I noticed around 2 p.m. the Turtle Creek 3 Fire Department truck was out on our road. They drove 4 up to the very end to the new gate put up by Ms. Bell 5 and did a little practice run. 6 They backed up into several of the 7 neighboring driveways, making sure they could get in and 8 out. All of this while being directed and videoed by 9 Ms. Bell and her daughter. The neighbor across the 10 street came out to talk to me about the situation, and 11 we agreed that there should be a designated turnaround 12 driveway at the end of the road for emergency purposes 13 and any public use as needed. 14 We think that in any emergency situation 15 there won't be any time for someone to properly direct 16 anyone to get in and out. I spoke to the driver of the 17 truck after he was done with practice, and he said the 18 truck was in -- the truck he was in is only about 25 19 feet long, and not the longest vehicle. 20 He said that in case of emergency, if more 21 trucks were needed, that they would bring about three, 22 and the other vehicles were longer. I believe he said 23 that their longest truck is about 39 feet. That seems 24 to be a problem to me and, therefore, needed a 25 turnaround for better access. 49 1 From speaking to some of the neighbors, I'd 2 like a turnaround at the end of the road to make things 3 easier to the public if needed in case emergency 4 vehicles coming in. I know it has been the way it is 5 for many years, but it seems like now we have the 6 opportunity to get this done by the County at no cost to 7 the homeowners according to Charlie Hastings. 8 Some of the driveways can be used to back in 9 a large vehicle, but not all. Over 50 percent of the 10 properties out there either have gates or cannot 11 accommodate the entry of a large truck or long vehicle. 12 The driveways that Ms. Bell directed the driver of the 13 fire truck to use his emergency backup and turnaround 14 access are not even her property. 15 My concern is that when the rest of these 16 properties with open access are sold or simply have a 17 gate put in to their entry, where will vehicles turn 18 around? Thank you. Arnie Bocanegra. 19 Are there any other -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. You've got some 21 other speakers here, though. 22 (Off the record.) 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, she's got a video 24 she's going to start. And so one's going to play the 25 video and one's going to talk. 50 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. Come on by. 3 MS. BELL: I'm Arielle Bell. 4 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, how do you spell 5 that? 6 MS. BELL: A-R-I-E-L-L-E, B-E-L-L. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's easier to speak 8 if -- you can take your mask off while you're speaking. 9 Thank you. 10 MS. BELL: Oh. Is that okay? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And your address? 12 MS. BELL: 140 Encino Drive. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you. 14 MS. BELL: Okay. Go ahead and play the 15 first video there, and you have to start. Scoot it 16 back. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Shirley, can you 18 give your name and address, please, for the record? 19 CHERYL BELL: Yes, sir. Shirley Bell, 140 20 Encino Drive. And this is the video of the Fire Marshal 21 that came out that did speak with Mr. Bocanegra and he 22 also wrote a letter. He was supposed to be here today, 23 but he is sick, so we have videotaped him and he wanted 24 to be sure that you saw it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 51 1 Proceed. 2 (Playing video.) 3 "Hello, I'm Wesley Gordon, Chief of Turtle 4 Creek Volunteer Fire Department. And we're up here 5 today on Encino Road, just demonstrating that it was 6 very easy for us to turn one of our big trucks around in 7 three of the driveways down the street from the 8 residence that's wanting to close the end of the road 9 off. I feel very confident that the EMS crews and other 10 larger trucks will have the same capabilities as we 11 have. Thank you. 12 (End of video.) 13 MS. BELL: May I -- I don't know if I can 14 get closer to show a couple other videos. 15 I want to pick the correct one. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Put your mask back on 17 if you go over there. 18 (Preparing video.) 19 (Video being played.) 20 MS. BELL: And that's the first turnaround 21 from the -- my property line. She's standing at my 22 property line. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is that somebody 24 else's property? I mean -- 25 MS. BELL: It's 129. 52 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 2 MS. BELL: She was here and she's okay with 3 it. That's where most everybody turns around, right 4 there. So if you want to play it again, you can see 5 that's the larger truck that he brought out. He also 6 brought a smaller truck. 7 (Playing video.) 8 MS. BELL: So he's very capable of turning 9 around without any problem. Go down one. And there you 10 are. And this one should be -- 11 (Playing video.) 12 MS. BELL: This is their actual driveway. 13 And there's one more. He pulled in a 14 different driveway showing that he can go in either 15 direction. 16 (Preparing video.) 17 (Playing video.) 18 MRS. BELL: The next one down. And this 19 is -- so concurrent with the first video Mr. Gordon said 20 he is confident that he can turn around in all the 21 driveways. He wrote a letter to that effect, that he 22 could turn around in all the driveways without any 23 problem. 24 So I think that was the concern that Charlie 25 was having. And I think anybody that makes a wrong turn 53 1 down a driveway -- a road, they can turn in any driveway 2 and turn around. They don't have to go to the end of 3 the road to turn around. 4 MS. BELL: And most of the driveways have, 5 as he said, have plenty of room to turn around that 6 truck. So the odds of any larger vehicles -- as a 7 matter of fact, they came out with the larger truck when 8 our home burned in 2005, along with two other fire 9 departments from Kerrville that came. So they were very 10 capable of turning around. We had a fire and -- 11 So I'm hoping that you will go along with 12 the abandonment without any type of turnaround since the 13 majority of the neighbors are in agreement with that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Thank you. 15 And thank you, Arielle. 16 MS. BELL: You're welcome. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the letter is 18 To Whom It May Concern: Chief Wes Gordon went to the 19 address at 140 Encino Road on Sunday, November 15th, 20 2020, with two different sized trucks, one holding 400 21 gallons of water, the other holding 1800 gallons of 22 water to ensure an emergency vehicle could turn around 23 with no problem at all. Sincerely, Wesley Gordon, Chief 24 Volunteer Fire Department. 25 Any other -- or does anyone else wish to 54 1 speak at this public hearing? 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is that it? I believe 3 that's it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well we're not there 7 yet. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What are we doing? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this is just a 10 public hearing. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Oh, that's right. 12 We'll close the public hearing and move on to 1.16 13 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 14 consider a petition to abandon and discontinue the road 15 maintenance for approximately 495 feet at the end of 16 Encino Drive, Precinct 1. Mr. Hastings. 17 MR. HASTINGS: This item also has Shirley 18 Bell's name on it. So if you wanted to speak first or 19 second or however you want to go. 20 MS. BELL: Well -- 21 MR. HASTINGS: I do have a presentation. 22 MS. BELL: Okay. I was just going to say 23 that was mine. I didn't realize that I was to wait 24 until this time. But it was just to concur that also in 25 the video you saw Mr. Bocanegra was watching the Fire 55 1 Marshal and they spoke afterwards regarding why they 2 were there and what they were doing. 3 So again, I hope that you will agree with 4 the majority that we are very capable of having 5 emergency vehicles and fire trucks turning around 6 without any problem. They do not have to go to the end 7 of the road to make a turn around, and if they did, 8 there still is plenty of room on the very first one with 9 the first entrance over the culvert where 129, 10 Ms. McGraw, has stated that if you want to put a culvert 11 across -- but there's plenty of room for a turnaround 12 already there. They're already using it for this many 13 years, so -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Mr. Hastings. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. Thank you. Shirley 16 Ann McGraw Bell, who was just speaking, owns Lots 6 and 17 7, all parts, and 8 of Ranchero Estates, Volume 3, Page 18 46, and has generated a petition to abandon and 19 discontinue road maintenance for approximately 495 feet 20 of the end of Encino Drive. The said portion of the 21 road serves the aforementioned Lots 6, 7, and 8. 22 The request is being made so she can gate 23 this portion of the road off from the public. There is 24 not a request to vacate the road so that Lots 6, 7 and 8 25 will still have legal access to the road; however, once 56 1 abandoned and discontinued -- which that's the request, 2 there's no vacation of the road; just abandon and 3 discontinue. Once it is abandoned and discontinued the 4 road will become private in nature, which means 5 maintenance will be solely on the people who live and 6 have frontage on that portion of the road. So Lots 6, 7 7 and 8, and she owns all of those lots. 8 Kerr County standard practice and procedures 9 for a request to abandon the end of a road is for the 10 requester to provide some means for vehicles to turn 11 around in the form of right-of-way dedication, either a 12 cul-de-sac, a T-head or a Hammerhead. Neither the 13 petition nor any other document addresses this concern. 14 The following roads are examples where the 15 court required a turnaround in exchange for road 16 abandonment: Fall Branch Road, Higbee Road, Canyon View 17 Drive, and Verde Creek Road. And these are all very 18 recent, within the last five years. 19 According to Texas Statutes, the Court may 20 order public roads laid out, discontinued, closed, 21 abandoned, vacated or altered. So again, I want to go 22 over what the request is. 23 The State defines the relevant terms: 24 Abandon means to relinquish the public's right-of-way in 25 and use of the road. So no longer would the public have 57 1 use of that portion of the 495 feet. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: From the fence back -- 3 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- is the easy way to 5 remember it. 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. From the gate 7 back. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 9 MR. HASTINGS: To discontinue -- discontinue 10 is to discontinue maintenance of the road. So Kerr 11 County would no longer be maintaining also. 12 The statute defines the process to abandon 13 and discontinue: Number 1, they must prepare a petition 14 with eight signatures from people who live in the 15 Precinct. The petition must show the limits of the road 16 that is to be Abandoned and Discontinued. The petition 17 must be posted at both ends of the subject portion of 18 the road as well as at the courthouse for a minimum of 19 20 days prior to a public hearing. That has been done. 20 You have an affidavit of posting in your packet. 21 Number 2, a public hearing is required 22 before the Commissioners' Court can consider the 23 petition. The public hearing was held moments ago. 24 And number 3, following the public hearing 25 the Commissioners' Court may consider and take action on 58 1 the subject request. 2 I did visit with the Kerrville Fire 3 Department. My understanding is that they also respond 4 to this area. And I asked them, I said if this was in 5 the City limit what would y'all require? And they said 6 we'd require some kind of a turnaround be installed. 7 It's not, so they're relying on Kerr County to do that. 8 Our practice is to require it. Of the -- 9 all the roads I mentioned, that's what we've done in 10 every case. And in every case, the property owner 11 dedicated some right-of-way, they paid for the Surveyor 12 to come out, they dedicated it to us, and then Kerr 13 County Road & Bridge went out and constructed the 14 turnaround. Okay. 15 In the absence of provisions for vehicles to 16 turn around, the County Engineer recommends that the 17 Court deny petition to abandon and discontinue road 18 maintenance for approximately 495 feet of the end of 19 Encino Drive, Precinct 1. 20 I -- I know that we saw videos of a truck 21 turning around in a driveway. That driveway is a pretty 22 good distance away from where this road would be 23 discontinued. So if that driver or anybody comes up to 24 this gate when, let's say, they're hauling a trailer and 25 let's say it's two o'clock in the morning, I don't know 59 1 why I'm here, but I've got to the end of the road. Now, 2 how do I back up? How do I backup the trailer in the 3 dark and where am I backing it up to? That's the 4 purpose of the turnaround. It's not just for emergency 5 vehicles. It's for anybody that's on that public road, 6 using it for whatever reason. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it's -- it's not 8 far fetched that somebody has a trailer on their truck 9 in the middle of the night around here. But I don't 10 know that we're required to make provision for that. 11 When you have the fire department saying that they have 12 ample room to turn around, I don't think that we need to 13 simply do the same thing in this instance we've done 14 everyplace else just because we did it everyplace else. 15 I don't think the one size fits all idea. 16 You have the neighbors that are okay with 17 it. You have the fire department's okay with it. You 18 have the City of Kerrville who would like something else 19 but it's not in the City of Kerrville. So I don't see 20 any reason to -- to deny it. Certainly not based on 21 precedent. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I think we need 23 to stay consistent with what we do. And I know we've 24 had several of these type things come up in Precinct 4 25 where we've gone out there and looked at them and -- and 60 1 it's -- you know, they weigh it out, is it worth doing 2 it or is it not? 3 But I think we -- you know, in a fire it's 4 an emergent situation, you may not -- you're probably 5 going to have extra vehicles, it may not have that extra 6 person all the time to back into a convenient -- if 7 there is a convenient driveway or something, so I think 8 we need to stay consistent in what we've been doing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying I think we 10 need to stay consistent. But also, we have a lot of 11 situations in the County that are similar to this. And 12 whenever we can, we try to improve them. That's been 13 our practice for years. Whether it's right-of-way, 14 straightening driveways, you know, or cul-de-sac things. 15 And I tend to agree with Commissioner Harris 16 that we need to, you know, be consistent. And I don't 17 see that it's that difficult to move the gate in a 18 little bit further by the picture. And I haven't been 19 out on the road. But move the gate in and inside of the 20 property, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I've looked at it. I'm 22 not sure that would do the trick. There's a gate across 23 the middle of the road. 24 MS. BELL: Well, the original reason I did 25 this was because of the riffraff, the damage to my 61 1 property and the gate. And I have pictures of all my 2 gates and posts that have been knocked down. Because 3 it's not the regular person turning around. It's 4 someone under the influence. It's usually on Friday and 5 Saturday nights. That's the only times I really wanted 6 to change the gate. 7 But since I own both sides of the property, 8 the road is plenty wide enough. People have been 9 turning around and it's within the 40 feet of the 10 property line, the first turnaround at 129. It's not 11 that far. I mean, the -- my trash man, UPS, Fed Ex, 12 they're already using it. They've been using it for 13 years. There is not an issue with -- with the normal 14 person turning around, even with a trailer. 15 My trash man has a large trailer that goes 16 up there and turns around. So it's not -- as well as 17 129. That's where they turn around. So it's not an 18 issue, I don't think, of -- I know you want to upgrade 19 the road, but I don't know if -- if it warrants it. I'm 20 the only other house down there. There's not any other 21 houses. 22 And like I said, if anybody turns up that 23 road that's going the wrong way, they could turn around 24 in any driveway. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what if they put 62 1 gates on the driveway? 2 MS. BELL: They all have gates. But there's 3 enough room. There's enough room to turn around. Their 4 gate is far enough back from the road that they can turn 5 around. 6 MR. HASTINGS: The issue is that when they 7 get to her gate that's across the road, they cannot turn 8 around immediately right there. They're going to have 9 to back up for several hundred feet before they get to a 10 driveway that they can turn around. That's the issue. 11 And our standard is 99 feet. 12 MS. BELL: Well, it's 40 feet from my 13 property line from the gate to the culvert where the 14 garden is, where the fire truck turned around the first 15 time. And I did speak with Mr. Lackey, the Fire Marshal 16 from Kerrville, and went over the -- what you guys -- I 17 guess the ETJ, which you adopted with the City, and he 18 felt that the road, you know, looked at it from an 19 aerial map, and looked like the road was -- 20 MR. HASTINGS: Can you show me where that 21 driveway is? 22 MS. BELL: Right here. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 24 MS. BELL: And the gate -- the gate is back 25 here. This is my property line. So right there. He 63 1 measured it, according to -- to that -- from this point 2 to that point where the gate is, is 40 feet. 3 MR. HASTINGS: No, it's not. 4 MS. BELL: Okay. Maybe 50 feet. But I -- 5 MR. HASTINGS: No. 6 MS. BELL: -- he -- he did it from an aerial 7 view. 8 MR. HASTINGS: No. It's more. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're saying it's less 10 or more, Charlie? 11 MR. HASTINGS: It's -- it's a lot more than 12 40 feet. 13 MS. BELL: Well, when you -- it's on this 14 curve -- 15 MR. HASTINGS: That right there is 60. So 16 that would be 60 -- it would be 120. It's about a 130, 17 140 feet. 18 MS. BELL: I don't think it's -- anyway, I'm 19 not going to disagree with him. All I know is from the 20 time you see my gate and the light -- I have a light at 21 night that comes on. So you have a motion detector 22 light that comes on at night so you can see it, as well 23 as reflectors on the gate and on the sign. So you see 24 it all the way down to 120. I didn't think to bring 25 that, a night view picture of seeing where it dead ends. 64 1 You have all -- you have three driveways 2 before you even get to my gate, because you see the 3 reflectors and you see my light. So there's plenty of 4 time to stop and turn around. And most people that -- 5 if you're going to go up the road and you realize you're 6 not on Encino Drive, Encino Road, Encino Loop, because 7 there's several Encino's in Kerrville, you would turn 8 around at the nearest driveway and go out. You wouldn't 9 keep driving all the way to the end. I mean, that's 10 just -- a normal person, I guess, that's what I -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Do we have a no outlet 12 sign there or a dead end? 13 MS. BELL: A dead end. It's a dead end. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 15 MR. HASTINGS: It's a dead end. I just 16 wanted to add something. We are talking about the 17 distances. I do know that I -- I've focused in on that 18 99 feet. But I do want you to know that in the proposed 19 subdivision regulations rewrite, I did get a comment 20 from another engineer in town that said that might need 21 to be 150 feet. Just so y'all know. And so that is 22 kind of on the table right now. Our subdivision 23 regulations haven't been, you know, completely rewritten 24 and approved, and we could go over 99 feet to 150, I 25 just want you to know that in case you see that, that 65 1 that is being considered. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, if that is -- if 3 that does happen, there's going to be a lot of things 4 grandfathered in anyway. There's plenty of them that 5 don't meet that requirement. 6 MR. HASTINGS: But it looks like that 7 driveway that they're using to practice turning around 8 in is within 150 feet of the gate that she had placed. 9 That's what I wanted you all to realize. It is way more 10 than 40 feet, but it's -- it's within 150. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I -- I can tell 12 you on the road that I live on, which is a county road, 13 there is not a place for a fire truck to turn around 14 unless you pull up in a field somewhere. There's plenty 15 of places like that. The fire departments, the 16 Volunteer Fire Departments, cut fence all the time. And 17 so you have to do that kind of stuff. 18 They know most of the gate codes and all 19 that, but there are places you can't turn around. 20 There's no way around it. There's not a safe place to 21 do it. So you drive down far enough to find a turn 22 around. 23 So I think we have a lot of this around here 24 and I -- I just don't like the idea that we take on this 25 central planning kind of idea. Everything has to be 66 1 exactly the same. Because in the Hill Country, 2 everything is not the same everywhere. Safety is an 3 issue. But you have the -- the testimony of a seasoned 4 volunteer fire fighter who says that it's, you know, 5 plenty of room. 6 I don't want to put extra burden -- this is 7 less money and less responsibility for the County. I 8 don't want to put extra burden on the citizens. 9 MS. BELL: I think having a turnaround is 10 just going to have more people coming down there once 11 they find out they can hang out down there. Because 12 that's what they have been doing. It's just -- I'm just 13 going to have more issues. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you got the whole 15 neighborhood turned out in favor of this. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, not all of them. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you have the 18 majority of them. Because I -- there's not many people 19 live on that road. 20 MS. MCGRAW: I own the property right next 21 to her, on both sides. Our garbage guy is a big garbage 22 truck that comes in, and he pulls into that driveway you 23 were just talking about. That's where our garbage is. 24 And he has no problem. He's been doing it for years, 25 for us. He pulls in, backs in, gets the garbage, and 67 1 then pulls right back out. They have no problem turning 2 around. Like I said, that's a huge full size garbage 3 truck. And like I said, we own that property. 4 And no one -- you know, we -- I don't see a 5 need for a turnaround right there where our property is 6 where her gate is, there's no need. There's that backup 7 right there on our garbage -- and if you wanted to put 8 another one, a driveway -- that same driveway across 9 from us, across from that, onto our other four acres, 10 that's great. You guys want to put that in, the same 11 thing? Fine. That's even more space for them to back 12 up. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are you -- what are you 14 saying, you want to donate part of your property? 15 MS. MCGRAW: No. I'm not going to donate 16 any property for a turnaround. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Another driveway 18 you're saying? 19 MS. MCGRAW: Well, yeah. If you guys want 20 to put the driveway in for him to actually make -- for 21 him to go straight and then go like that, that's fine. 22 But he has no problem just backing in and then turning 23 around, right there. 24 And I haven't seen anybody -- you know, if 25 you go into a turnaround passed that driveway, for us, 68 1 our concern is, we got water lines coming down along the 2 side of that road. And you're going to break it if you 3 start putting in cement pad. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now your -- your 5 garbage man comes in daylight hours? 6 MS. MCGRAW: Yeah. He comes Friday 7 mornings. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Well, fires a 9 lot of times happen in the middle of the night. 10 MS. MCGRAW: Well, they've had a fire truck 11 come up to that house in the middle of the night. 12 MS. BELL: My house burned. 13 MS. MCGRAW: Yeah. No problem. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Kelly, what -- what 15 would it cost -- what does it cost the County to put a 16 Hammerhead, a T-head, a turnaround? 17 MS. HOFFER: I don't know. It's been awhile 18 since we've done one. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, according to 20 Charlie it hasn't been that long. 21 MR. HASTINGS: I think the last one we did 22 was 50. 23 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 24 MR. HASTINGS: We can find the material, you 25 know. 69 1 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, man hours and all 3 that. 4 MR. HASTINGS: You know, what does it take 5 them, a couple days? 6 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 8 MS. HOFFER: Two or three days. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So see, instead of this 10 saving the County money, it turns into something that 11 costs the County money to do that, instead of just 12 abandoning the road. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing I think 14 needs to be mentioned is after 40 years of responding to 15 emergency situations like this, if it's an emergency 16 situation out there and EMS is called, number one, 17 you're not going to have one unit. You're going to have 18 an EMS, you're going to have a fire truck, you're 19 probably going to have an SO unit. You know, emergency 20 situations, you're going to have a number of units. 21 And when you get that many units in an area 22 without a turnaround, it's a nightmare getting out. Not 23 that it can't be done, but it can cause for some serious 24 issues. And I've seen -- 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And delays. 70 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And delays. And I've 2 seen units hit other units trying to get turned around 3 and -- without a turnaround it can be bad in emergency 4 situations. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 7 MS. BELL: Well, they all three came out to 8 my fire. So two from the City and one from Turtle 9 Creek. So I don't know -- I'm not sure -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But at that time, do 11 they -- they come in your gate, and then they -- they 12 don't care about going across your land or anything 13 else, they can kind of spread out and get turned around 14 and fight a fire. Okay. They're out in the middle of 15 the pasture turning around. They're not stopped at a 16 gate. 17 MS. MCGRAW: No, they're not. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, on most roads 19 that I've seen they -- 20 MS. MCGRAW: There's -- there's a ditch on 21 either side so -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hold on, one at a time, 24 please. 25 MS. MCGRAW: There's a ditch on either side 71 1 of that road. So when they're going up that road, 2 they're -- it's either they're going to be using 3 somebody's driveway or -- or that. Because there is -- 4 if they back up, they're going to go into the ditch. 5 MR. HASTINGS: That's the concern. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly it. 7 MS. MCGRAW: So, you know, like where the 8 gate happens to be, it happens to be right in -- pass 9 where we have the -- our garbage guy go. That -- that's 10 that pullout. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Bell, what's the, I 12 guess, the -- the problem with donating or giving an 13 easement of property to make a turnaround right there? 14 MS. BELL: Because there would be more 15 people coming. They're already coming up there and 16 stopping now. They would come up on the other side of 17 the garden and park. I've had carcasses, fish heads, 18 people dumping trash. Stealing my cords of wood. 19 Even -- it's just been a -- I don't want anymore traffic 20 down there, and having a turnaround I believe is just 21 going to promote that. I don't think it's going to help 22 because there is no other property. I'm the only house 23 there. She's the next house. And the rest of -- the 24 rest of it is down the road, and each of them have a 25 turnaround -- I mean a driveway large enough, as the 72 1 Fire Marshal said, to turn around. 2 I just -- I don't want anymore traffic up 3 there. I've had -- between my gates, my fencing, my 4 cars have been hit. The water line broken by the well, 5 dumping trash out there. 6 They even stole two rolls of deer fencing, 7 horse fencing. And it's just -- this is the times we're 8 living in. And I think just shutting off the gate 9 protects, I think, most of us. Because they already 10 said it's a dead end. And having that -- the people are 11 just going to -- once they realize they've turned at a 12 dead end road, they're going to be turning sooner. In 13 another driveway. They're not going to come all the way 14 down and -- and plus at night, the reflectors and the 15 light that comes on, they see it, it's not like they're 16 in the middle of nowhere. They can -- they can see it, 17 they can back up. And. 18 As she's offered the driveway across the 19 way, if you want to turn around within the hundred feet. 20 And we've already known multiple -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, 22 and it's probably not to you, it's to your neighbor. If 23 you're saying it's okay for the County to build a 24 driveway across the road, what's the difference between 25 that and have to do it right inside Ms. Bell's property? 73 1 I mean it's -- either way it's -- 2 MS. BELL: The amount of property that 3 you're asking to donate. The hammerhead is large; it's 4 not small. And then the cul-de-sac, if it's -- if you 5 just dug out on both sides of it and just paved it. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But you'd be able to 7 close the gate legally, and they wouldn't go further 8 into your property. 9 MS. BELL: Right. Yeah. I don't want them 10 up on my property. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, exactly. From 12 the T-head or whatever falls past. 13 MS. BELL: Right. But again, if you -- if 14 you -- because that back property on that is not 15 cleared. And I think that's one of the reasons that, 16 you know, they come down there and we've had work trucks 17 come down there and eat lunch and dump trash on the side 18 of the road. People do that in the afternoon, they find 19 a place to park and have a break. And then, once word 20 gets out I think if you have a hammerhead in there, it's 21 not visible from the road, you're just -- we're just 22 going to have more problems. And we don't want -- we 23 don't want that. 24 I would -- if you're going to do anything, I 25 would do the driveway across the current driveway 40 74 1 feet and make it a little bit bigger, put another little 2 culvert in there so everybody can turn around if that's 3 what the concern is. 4 But like I said, the Fire Marshal said he 5 can turn around in there. He's been doing it 16 plus 6 years. He can turn around in every single one of those 7 driveways. And then there's been multiple cars -- 8 multiple EMS's out there that -- the road is not wide 9 enough. Because after talking to Mr. Lackey, the Fire 10 Marshal for the City, the road is not wide enough. It's 11 not standard, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean it's a tough call 13 but -- I mean, I agree with Commissioner Belew from the 14 standpoint that, you know, that you hate to cause -- do 15 something that's going to cause the County to spend 16 money. We'd like to help your situation, but the other 17 side of it is, you know, the gate appears to me to make 18 it less safe. Even though it's already an unsafe road 19 because it's been there a long time, you know, probably 20 well before we did or had our current subdivision rules. 21 So I mean I'm kind of on the fence on this, 22 which is a little bit unusual. I think I could go 23 either way. And I agree with Commissioner Belew, but 24 also agree with Commissioner Harris and the County 25 Engineer. 75 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And Rusty. Rusty's 2 comments as far as a hectic situation with emergencies, 3 we can have a lot of different units coming out there 4 from different departments. And then the ditch on each 5 side. That -- that makes it even tougher. 6 MS. BELL: Well, that's why it's not spread 7 across where it's cutting out, it's level. That's why 8 everybody's turning around there. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But what you just said 10 a minute ago, Ms. Bell, is that the road is narrow, 11 so -- and what the Sheriff said earlier, you got two 12 different large oversize vehicles coming in, one's 13 leaving, one's coming in, whatever the situation. They 14 can -- if they can clear one another, they still need a 15 place to turn around. 16 MS. BELL: The driveway. Just like they've 17 been doing. That's what they've been doing. They've 18 been using the driveways. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You got four or five 20 vehicles up in there, you're going to have a -- 21 MS. BELL: We're talking -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- it's like playing 23 Tetras. This one moves forward, that one moves back, 24 this one moves over to the side. It's a problem. 25 So Charlie, is that driveway across from the 76 1 existing driveway, is that a workable solution in your 2 mind? 3 MS. BELL: Right there. They can put it 4 right there. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Putting a -- putting 6 some kind of a pull in? 7 MS. BELL: No, he moved the other side -- 8 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I can't hear 9 you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One at a time, please. 11 MS. BELL: He was showing the picture where 12 there was a -- the water line. No, you're -- right 13 here. This is what he's proposing. 14 (Talking to each other in soto voice.) 15 MR. HASTINGS: It would need to be a pad 16 that's as big as that. 17 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I can't hear 18 you. 19 MR. HASTINGS: If the one that you already 20 have is fine, then there's no need to do one to a 21 standard. This is to standard. 22 MS. MCGRAW: No, that's what I'm saying. So 23 you just put this one just like this right across here. 24 That's all they're going to do because that's all we 25 need. 77 1 MR. HASTINGS: I'll show the Court what 2 they're saying. This is the standard. This is what's 3 available. I don't know if you can see that. 4 (Mr. Hastings showing some paperwork to 5 Commissioners.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And where it's shown on 7 here, though, is not on Miss Bell's property, correct? 8 MR. HASTINGS: No. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. None of that is. 10 MS. MCGRAW: It's on my property. 11 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What material would that 13 have to be made out of? 14 MR. HASTINGS: We would chip seal it. After 15 it was put down with asphalt -- I'm sorry road base. 16 Road base with chip seal on top of it. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Can we compromise with 18 something like that? This addresses what the Sheriff 19 said, it addresses what you said, it addresses what 20 Commissioner Harris said, what I've said and what 21 Commissioner Letz said. It allows for -- the whole idea 22 is for emergency vehicles. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Their concern is that 25 if you have a larger area for people to congregate or 78 1 dump trash or whatever, it just makes it -- it continues 2 the problem. What's available and what they showed the 3 video -- 4 COURT REPORTER: Please one at a time. 5 MR. HASTINGS: And the distance from the 6 gate here -- no, it's not. That's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's the -- the 8 hammerhead? 9 MR. HASTINGS: Yeah. A turnout. A turnout. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're talking about 11 putting it right here? 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yeah. Yeah. Further down. 13 It would just be further away from the gate. It's -- 14 you don't want it too far. People trying to back up. 15 Especially if they're pulling a trailer. 16 MR. HARRIS: Approximately how long is that? 17 MR. HASTINGS: Longer to get there. But 18 it -- I mean, it's better than nothing. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Approximately how far? 20 MR. HASTINGS: Looks like about 150 feet 21 from the gate. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, the question I 23 have -- and Ms. McGraw, this is your property, correct? 24 MS. MCGRAW: Both sides are on my property. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do what we're even 79 1 talking about right now would require an easement from 2 you. We can't do any -- we can't do something on 3 private property. We have to have an easement from you 4 to do it. And I want to make sure that's clear. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: If it's sold, then we 6 lose it. You know, if it's sold -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's gotta be an 8 easement that -- 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- and somebody put a 10 gate across it. 11 MS. MCGRAW: So if we chose to put a 12 driveway, like what that one spot is on our -- on our 13 side, we chose to put the driveway there, that's not -- 14 then you wouldn't have any problems? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But you'd have 16 to give the County an easement to that -- 17 MS. MCGRAW: No. But let's say if we chose 18 ourselves to put it in. Like we're going to plan on 19 eventually putting a house in there, this is where our 20 driveway is going to be. 21 MR. HASTINGS: It would need to be this -- 22 those dimensions. 23 MS. MCGRAW: No. It can't be just like 24 that, just an access right there? 25 MR. HASTINGS: It would need to be these 80 1 dimensions if you're just asking for it to be across the 2 street from that. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You put it where you 4 want. 5 MS. MCGRAW: Well, why would it have to be 6 that way? If it's our choice to put in a -- that pad 7 there? 8 MR. HASTINGS: To meet the requirements for 9 a turnout. That's -- I'm showing you a standard. 10 MS. BELL: But we were talking -- 11 MS. MCGRAW: We were saying there's no 12 turnout. 13 MR. HASTINGS: This standard is actually a 14 compromise from the -- what fire code calls for. 15 International Fire Code. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other thing I 17 think needs to be mentioned that we just need to make 18 sure of. Most of the County fires that I've seen, 19 there's also going to be a tanker truck pulled in there, 20 especially if it's a bad one. And whatever you build or 21 is built, culvert or whatever, has to be able to support 22 the weight. And that's what I was asking Kelly of that 23 tanker truck, are you really creating something if we go 24 across a collapsable driveway? 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's true. 81 1 MS. MCGRAW: What I'm saying is, if there's 2 a fire, it's either going to be my house or her house. 3 They've already had fires. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, they could be 5 coming -- you don't know where the fire is, ma'am. It 6 can be coming over the hills towards you from somewhere 7 else. 8 MS. MCGRAW: There is no way over there. 9 MS. BELL: It's a dead end. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Fire doesn't stop at 11 boundary lines. Fire goes everywhere. So you can't -- 12 you can't think of it in those terms. The fire doesn't 13 stop at your fence line. So there's a fire coming, it's 14 coming. And if they can put it out from your side or 15 your house or save your house from a fire coming over 16 the hill, you want them there. 17 MS. MCGRAW: Well, they're not going to be 18 over the hill. They're not going to be getting up 19 there. Because there's no way they can get up that 20 hill, get up to there. Then it's going to burn. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. So you want 22 them there to stop it from reaching your house. 23 MS. BELL: And they can if you -- 24 MS. BELL: Then that way they're in our 25 driveway already. 82 1 (Talking over). 2 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. One at a time, 3 please. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems like we're not 5 progressing. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a value in 8 doing no action and see if y'all -- if everyone can come 9 up with a solution that everyone agrees with or do we 10 need to vote today? 11 MS. MCGRAW: My question is, why can't we put 12 a residents only sign at the end of the road? There's 13 already a dead end sign. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we don't -- that's 15 just not a general -- we can't do that. It's a public 16 road. 17 MS. BELL: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The County still 20 maintains it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was recently a 22 lawsuit related to that, about what you can and can't do 23 on County roads. And it -- it's open to the public. 24 I mean, that road may be a little private 25 neighborhood road, but the public access is the same as 83 1 on I-10. They have the ability to be on that road. So 2 you can't limit that in any way. 3 MR. HASTINGS: The three standards that we 4 have are a cul-de-sac, which is going to be the biggest 5 and take up the most land. The hammerhead, which is 6 unnecessary. Don't need one here, don't want one. Or 7 just a simple turnout. And the turnout is what's being 8 proposed. It's the least obtrusive of all three. 9 The standard that I have developed, and that 10 we have been using, is a lesser standard than the 11 International Fire Code. The International Fire Code 12 wants it longer and wider. I think we have a very good 13 standard that works good for us, and it's the least of 14 all. If we were going to delay based on a standard, I 15 would -- I would need someone to submit a different 16 standard. This is -- this is -- I think this is as bare 17 bones as it gets. 18 I think the only thing we could do is maybe 19 not require as much of an easement around that road. We 20 could skinny up the easement. But the actual what gets 21 paved and built, it needs to be that standard. Don't 22 make it any smaller than that. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. 23 I'd be rolling the dice. 24 So we need to stick with that standard, but 25 if we want to take the easement that goes around it, 84 1 which is 60 feet wide and 80 feet long, if you want to 2 make it 50 feet wide and 70 feet long, we could do that 3 and still fit that road in there. It would be narrower, 4 it would be shorter than a 60 by 80, which is about a 5 tenth of an acre of her property that she's saying I'm 6 not willing to give up, and I get that. 7 MS. MCGRAW: Well, yeah. 8 MR. HASTINGS: But then put these -- it 9 would be smaller. It's still bigger than a normal 10 driveway. I know that's hard to comprehend but you -- 11 you've got to have multiple vehicles trying to turn 12 around in there, that's what it's for. 13 It doesn't solve the issue that Shirley is 14 concerned about of if you build this, instead of them 15 parking at the end of the road in front of my house, now 16 they're going to be -- because you've given them a place 17 that's easy for them to turn around, they're going to -- 18 somebody's going to park there, is what you're saying. 19 Right now it's very hard to turn around there, which is 20 a problem in an emergency. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Mrs. McGraw, do you -- 22 do you need time to chew on that and see what you -- 23 what you want to do? 24 MS. MCGRAW: About what? I don't see 25 there's a need for them to be putting in a cul-de-sac or 85 1 a turnaround right there in front of her property onto 2 ours. It's like he said, they're going to -- they're 3 going to just start parking there and -- and hanging out 4 there versus, you know, what's going to stop me from 5 putting a gate down on the start of my property then? 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you're really -- 7 what you're really talking about is a police issue; it's 8 not a road issue. And so you're not going to ever stop 9 that kind of thing. There's a lot of other roads in 10 Kerr County that have people that dump trash or 11 carcasses or -- 12 MS. MCGRAW: Well, I know -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- have tailgate 14 parties so -- 15 MS. MCGRAW: -- there's a lot of roads -- 16 and I've been to a lot of different areas now that are 17 just like this, where it's -- the road just stops where 18 driveways are. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But they're not asking 20 to put a gate across it. So this is a different 21 scenario. What we're trying to do is accommodate a 22 larger group of -- than just one fire truck in a 23 demonstration video. That's first and foremost. In a 24 real emergency situation, you'd have a lot of emergency 25 vehicles there. 86 1 MS. MCGRAW: But that's going to be that way 2 anywhere on that street. If any house burns, they're -- 3 all they're going to have is those driveways. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, hopefully, 5 nobody's house burns and hopefully nobody has a heart 6 attack with EMS and a fire truck there. 7 MS. MCGRAW: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But it's a possibility. 9 MS. MCGRAW: I know. But the way it is now, 10 all along that road is going to be that way. If 11 somebody has a heart attack or -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So I'm going to go back 13 to my original question. Do you want to grant the 14 County an easement for the driveway you suggested or 15 not? 16 MS. MCGRAW: How big is the driveway? I 17 mean if it's the same size as -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: He just -- he just told 19 you. 20 MS. MCGRAW: -- what we have -- 21 MR. HASTINGS: It needs to be that standard. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The easement could be 23 smaller than suggested on the map. 24 MS. BELL: So you're saying it could be 25 smaller than what he suggested? 87 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The easement part he 2 just -- he just told us what it would be. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Because that will allow 4 somebody to turn around in it. To back into it from the 5 gate, back up and turn around. All different size and 6 classes of vehicles. Because I look at it from a 7 traffic engineering standpoint and I have to consider 8 worse case scenario that is reasonable and -- 9 MS. MCGRAW: Well, why can't it be a -- 10 MR. HASTINGS: -- and different 11 classifications of vehicles. 12 MS. MCGRAW: Why can't it be across from 13 where that garbage pad is? 14 MR. HASTINGS: Show me where you would -- 15 MS. MCGRAW: Why can't it be right across 16 here? 17 MR. HASTINGS: It could. It could. But it 18 needs to be that size. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So is that -- that's 20 what I was talking about with the compromise. It's 21 where you would prefer it to be. But it needs to be 22 built to certain standards so that everybody's happy 23 with that. If we can compromise with that, then we 24 would have an agreement. 25 MS. MCGRAW: Well, you still want -- but 88 1 like easement, what are you -- I'm just saying, you can 2 put that pad there? 3 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. A road easement. 4 MS. MCGRAW: But we'd still own it? 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. Yes. But it's an 6 easement for the County to use it. Build it and use it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if you sell it, the 8 easement goes with it and the County would still have a 9 right to it. 10 MS. MCGRAW: But we could use it as -- if we 11 chose to build, that would be our driveway? 12 MR. HASTINGS: That would be the entrance. 13 Yes, ma'am. 14 MS. MCGRAW: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's a first step to 16 having that driveway you want, if we can all come to 17 that agreement. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You would be giving up 19 rather than Shirley giving up a portion. 20 MS. MCGRAW: Yeah. I don't have a problem 21 if you want to put something there across from the -- 22 where the other one is. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So then we can work 25 that out. 89 1 MR. HASTINGS: Then we just need -- and then 2 skinny it up as small as we can so it's not -- 3 MS. MCGRAW: Yeah. 4 MR. HASTINGS: -- a tenth of an acre; it's 5 something -- 6 MS. MCGRAW: Oh, definitely. Definitely. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Well, that's 8 very generous of you. 9 MR. HASTINGS: Now, it's a road easement 10 that -- it becomes, you know, for the public to turn 11 around in. 12 MS. MCGRAW: Well, they're turning around 13 anyway in our driveway. 14 MR. HASTINGS: Right. There you go. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Why don't we then approve 16 this concept. Because I really think we -- Ms. McGraw 17 needs to look at the actual document -- 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She does. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and the actual 20 drawing, you know. I don't want you just to agree to 21 something without knowing exact details. 22 MR. HASTINGS: Right. And we're -- we're 23 asking you to hire a surveyor to give us the metes and 24 bounds description of this. 25 MS. MCGRAW: Okay. 90 1 MR. HASTINGS: Then we take that survey, 2 come back to Commissioners' Court, the County Attorney 3 has attached on it this is the agreement for a road 4 easement, and if everybody signs then at that point then 5 we have permission to come out with crews, and clear, 6 put the road base in and put a topping on it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie, in this 8 situation, and I think this is similar for what we've 9 done in other roads, I don't mind the County doing the 10 surveying. And I think it's -- 'cuz I think it's 11 important that -- I don't want them to go survey 12 something that's not exactly what you think you need. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I want both of you 15 to agree and if the County does surveying and we're 16 getting additional right-of-way, which is what 17 essentially this is, the County has funds and has paid 18 for that cost in the past. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: She's the one granting 20 the easement, we need to pay for that survey. The 21 County. 22 MR. HASTINGS: And just to be clear, in the 23 most -- in all five of those that I mentioned before, 24 the property owner that was making the request obliged 25 by also providing a survey. 91 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think we've passed 2 comparing this to the other ones a long time ago. 3 MR. HASTINGS: I just -- I just want to make 4 sure everybody understands. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So I will make 6 the motion that, contingent on -- what are we saying -- 7 an agreement with Ms. McGraw for an easement on her 8 property, is that how we want to -- 9 MS. MCGRAW: On the four acres, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right, County Attorney? 11 MRS. STEBBINS: You could pass on this item, 12 and have them come back when it's all been sorted out so 13 you don't have anything to clean up later, if you're 14 doing it contingent on something else. And so this may 15 be something that Ms. McGraw wants to go home and think 16 about and then read the documents that will have to be 17 prepared and -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably a good 19 idea. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Let's pass on it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But conceptually we're 22 moving in that direction. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And you'll provide 24 some documents for her to review? 25 MRS. STEBBINS: I sure can. I can provide 92 1 what we usually use. Yes, sir. 2 MS. BELL: I want to say thank you all for 3 taking the time and -- 4 MR. HASTINGS: Probably the earliest that we 5 would come back to the Court on this would be maybe late 6 January or early February of 2021, with the holidays 7 approaching and everything. It will take a little bit 8 of time. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I understand. 10 Okay. 11 MR. HASTINGS: It could be a little bit 12 earlier than that, but not much. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As fast as you can, 14 let's get it to work. All right. Thank y'all. 15 Item 1.17 public hearing -- or open the 16 public hearing, rather, to consider the installation of 17 STOP signs in all directions at the intersection of 18 Mosty Lane and Second Street, Precinct 2. 19 So we open the public hearing. Is there 20 anyone that would like to speak at the public hearing? 21 It does not appear there's anyone that wants to speak. 22 Say none. I close the public hearing. 23 Item 1.18 consider, discuss and take 24 appropriate action to consider the installation of STOP 25 signs in all directions at the intersection of Mosty 93 1 Lane and Second Street in Center Point, Precinct 2. 2 Mr. Hastings. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Is the public hearing open 4 and closed now? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. Thank you. Just a 7 moment here. The intersection of Mosty Lane and Second 8 Street has limited sight visibility due to the extremely 9 close proximity of existing buildings to the edge of the 10 road. The buildings are within two feet of the edge of 11 the road, and Mosty Lane is about 18 feet wide. 12 In addition, the right-of-way for Mosty Lane 13 is prescriptive, and both sides of the road are owned by 14 the Mosty families who have used the road in their tree 15 and plant nursery operation for decades, and I think 16 even approaching a century or even over a century. 17 The commercial operation consists of 18 pedestrian, equipment, and vehicles crossing Mosty Lane 19 to access the buildings that are on the edge of the 20 road. There is an existing STOP sign on Second Street 21 at Mosty Lane. There are no STOP signs on Mosty Lane 22 and Second Street. 23 An engineering study was conducted following 24 the Texas Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, and 25 the results are attached, and I will read them aloud. 94 1 We have gone through this before, so I will summarize 2 this time. 3 Multi-way stop control can be useful as a 4 safety measure at intersections if certain traffic 5 conditions exist. Safety concerns associated with 6 multi-way stops include pedestrians, bicyclists, and all 7 road users expecting other road users to stop. 8 Multi-way stop control is used where the volume of 9 traffic on the intersecting roads is approximately 10 equal. 11 The average that we had, the vehicles per 12 hour, over an eight-hour period, is really the critical 13 one. I will tell you that the speed limits on both 14 roads is 30, and the 85th percentile on both roads on 15 Mosty was about 18 to 19, and 85th percentile on 16 Mosty -- or I'm sorry, on Second Street was about 22 17 miles per hour. So we're not moving real fast, but it 18 is an intersection. And the vehicles per hour on Mosty 19 was about 5 to 12 per hour. Vehicles on the minor road, 20 11 on Second Street, 11 vehicles per hour. 21 Now there's a whole lot of different 22 categories, and any one of these can qualify you for 23 putting a multi-way stop in. One of them would be 24 temporary replacement of a traffic control signal. We 25 don't qualify that. There's no traffic signal here. 95 1 The other could be a significant number of 2 crashes over a 12-month period. Five per year. That 3 would be a lot. We don't have any crashes there that we 4 know of, other than people have hit the STOP sign and 5 knocked it over. 6 Another would be volume of traffic. Our 7 volume is way, way low. The volume, just so you know, 8 would be somewhere in the range of 300 vehicles per hour 9 on the major road and 200 vehicles per hour on the minor 10 road. We're nowhere near that. So there's gotta be 11 something else that's causing us to look at this. 12 Other would be left turn conflict. High 13 pedestrian volume. I think either one of those is an 14 issue. Another would be intersection of two similar 15 residential collect or through streets. We don't really 16 have that here. 17 So it leaves us with, after stopping on 18 Second Street, you cannot see on Mosty Street. And 19 remember, we talked about those buildings and how close 20 they are to the edge of the road. Only two feet. 21 That's close. 22 So with that being said, the County Engineer 23 requests that the Court consider, discuss and take 24 appropriate action to consider installation of STOP 25 signs in all directions at the intersection of Mosty 96 1 Lane and Second Street. This is Precinct 2. I'll leave 2 it up to y'all. 3 COMMISSIONER MOSER: So move. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion from 6 Commissioner Moser -- 7 MR. HASTINGS: I just recommended that y'all 8 consider, discuss and take appropriate action. I didn't 9 give you an actual hard recommendation of what to do. 10 I'm leaving that up to -- 11 COMMISSIONER MOSER: I move -- I move to put 12 the STOP signs in all directions at Mosty Lane and 13 Second Street. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Motion from 16 Commissioner Moser to put STOP signs in all direction at 17 Mosty Lane and Second Street, and Commissioner Harris 18 has seconded that. Is there any further discussion? 19 All in favor raise your hand or say aye. 20 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 22 Item 1.19 consider, discuss and take 23 appropriate action for the Court to approve a final plat 24 for Alma Acres, Deed No. 15-6676, Precinct 1. 25 MR. HASTINGS: There's a total of 2 acres. 97 1 He's going to divide this into two lots. These two lots 2 already exist with water meters on them. They've been 3 serviced for years. There's two separate houses, 4 there's two separate water meters, it's never been 5 platted before. 6 So this proposed subdivision will divide a 7 two-acre tract into two existing residential homes, and 8 two existing separate water connections into two 9 separate lots. This plat also dedicates right-of-way 10 along Nixon Lane. Since it has never been platted but 11 it fronted Nixon Lane, it's never been dedication. 12 So it's going to bring these lots both under 13 one acre apiece. A concept plan for this subdivision 14 was approved on September 14th, 2020 by Order No. 38318. 15 And the County Engineer requests the Court 16 approve the final plat for Alma Acres, Deed No. 15-6676. 17 This is Precinct 1. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion from 21 Commissioner Belew, second from Commissioner Harris to 22 approve the final plat for Alma Acres, Deed No. 15-6676 23 in Precinct 1. Any further discussion? All in favor 24 raise your right hand or say aye. 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: Aye. 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous, four zero. 2 And I think that wraps up the Consideration 3 Agenda. We've already had the Approval Agenda and the 4 Information Agenda. And I don't believe we have any 5 Executive Session today. So then we're adjourned. 6 Thank you. 7 * * * * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 99 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 2nd day of December, A.D. 10 2020. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/31/2021 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25