1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, November 14, 2022 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 T. BECK GIPSON, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Public Input. 7 4 *** Commissioners' Comments. 12 5 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 13 action to terminate the Interlocal Agreement 6 involving the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library and Animal Control. 7 1.10 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 83 8 action regarding clarification on the timing and effectiveness of the new 9 engineering fees and new subdivision regulations with regards to the Twin Creek 10 Subdivision development. 11 1.11 Public hearing for a revision of plat for 96 Kerrville Country Estates Section 2, Lot 26. 12 1.12 Public hearing for a revision of plat for 96 13 Soledad Springs Estates Lot 15. 14 1.13 Public hearing for a proposed cancellation 97 of Tract 11, 57.16 acres, of the Theodore & 15 Dorothea Oehler Estate Subdivision. 16 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 97 action to approve a cancellation of Tract 11, 17 57.16 acres, of Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate Subdivision. 18 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 98 19 action for the Court to approve a final plat for the Avalos Subdivision. 20 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 99 21 action to go out for annual bids for road materials. 22 1.20 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 100 23 action to accept quarterly report from the Veteran Advisory Council. 24 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.21 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 103 action to reappoint Vicki Marsh to the 4 Veterans Advisory Council. The new term to be effective January 1, 2023. 5 1.22 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 103 6 action on request to hire a student intern from Alamo Community College for the Veteran 7 Services Office. There will be no cost to the County. 8 1.23 Update regarding Veteran's Pathway Project. 105 9 1.24 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 108 10 action to award bid for a new county-wide communication system for the Kerr County 11 Sheriff's Office and Volunteer Fire Departments. Request for Proposals (RFP) 12 were received on October 24, 2022. 13 1.25 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 112 action to enter into contract/negotiations 14 for a new countywide communication system for the Kerr County Sheriff's Office and 15 Volunteer Fire Departments. 16 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 115 action to amend Court Order No. 39599 17 approving the Interlocal Agreement with local entities for Hazardous Mitigation 18 Action Plan (HMAP) to increase the match for each participant from $2,000 to $3,800. 19 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 116 20 action to approve documents related to the Hazardous Mitigation Grant Program for the 21 Hazardous Mitigation Action Plan, and allow the County Judge to sign as appropriate. 22 Documents include Hazard Mitigation Program Application Certification, grant terms and 23 conditions, assurances, non-construction programs, certification regarding lobbying, 24 disclosure of lobbying activities, Resolution authorizing submission of Hazard Mitigation 25 Assistance Grant Application and Resolution regarding local matching. 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 118 action to rescind Court Order No. 39260 4 approving the purchase of a Ford Explorer from Enterprise Fleet Management for the 5 AgriLife Extension Office. 6 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 119 action to ratify and confirm the purchase 7 of a 2022 Ford Explorer from Enterprise Fleet Management for the AgriLife Extension Office. 8 1.6 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 122 9 action to accept the OOG, Office of the Governor, Grant Award, Grant Number 2781407, 10 for the Kerr County Victims' Services Department. 11 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 123 12 action regarding the state-mandated cybersecurity training courses offered by 13 the Texas Association of Counties. 14 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 124 action regarding Court Order No. 39562 15 approving the Kerr County Maintenance Director to seek out request for proposals 16 regarding repairs to the east and west sidewalks of the County Courthouse. 17 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 125 18 action to approve contract with Republic Services for one(1) two-yard container 19 (dumpster) for the Ingram Annex, and allow County Judge to sign same. 20 1.17 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 126 21 action regarding Resolution and Interlocal Agreement with the Texas Department of 22 Agriculture (TDA) for a Texas Community Development Block Grant Program (TxCDBG) 23 Colonia Planning and Needs Assessment. 24 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 128 action to renew the contract with the Kerr 25 Economic Development Corporation. 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.19 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 129 action regarding funding of the Volunteer 4 First Responder Program. 5 1.26 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 133 action to accept the OOG (Office of the 6 Governor) Grant Award (Grant Number 4451701) for the Kerr County Sheriff's Office (body 7 worn cameras grant). 8 1.27 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 140 action to ratify and confirm Proclamation 9 Recognizing the Rotary District 5840 District Conference. 10 1.28 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 141 11 action on implementation of the burn ban. 12 1.29 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 141 action to approve contracts with K'Star, 13 Tierra Linda Volunteer Fire Department, Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, 14 Castle Lake Volunteer Fire Department, Comfort Volunteer Fire Department, Hunt 15 Volunteer Fire Department, and Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, and allow County 16 Judge to sign same. 17 1.30 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 142 action to surplus items for various 18 departments. 19 1.31 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 142 action regarding the filing of Adult 20 Probation's Statement of Financial Position for the year ending 08-31-22. 21 1.32 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 143 22 action on the "Ricoh Order Agreement" and the "Ricoh Product Schedule" as presented, 23 for leasing two(2) Ricoh IM6000 copier/ printers for a term of sixty (60) months 24 in the County Clerk's office, and authorize County Judge to sign those documents. These 25 items were submitted to the County Attorney's office for review on 11-01-2022, respectfully. 6 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.33 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 145 action to approve 2023 Workers' 4 Compensation renewal with Texas Association of Counties (TAC). 5 2.1 Budget Amendments. 145 6 2.2 Pay Bills. 146 7 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 147 8 2.6 Court Orders. 148 9 3.2 Status Reports from Elected Officials. 148 10 3.3 Status Reports from Liaison Commissioners. 149 11 4.3a) Consider, discuss and take appropriate 152 12 action regarding consulting contract with Jill Shackelford for Aggregate Production 13 Operations (APO) services. 14 *** Adjournment. 153 15 *** Reporter's Certificate. 154 16 * * * * * * 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 1 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come to order. It 2 is Monday, November the 14th, 2022, it's 9 o'clock in 3 the morning and the Kerr County Commissioners' Court is 4 now in session. So if you would, stand for the prayer 5 and the pledge which will be led by Commissioner Gipson. 6 (Prayer and Pledge of Allegiance). 7 JUDGE KELLY: Be seated. For those of you 8 that carry one of these little devices, if you would 9 turn them off so you don't interrupt the proceedings. 10 The first item of business as always is 11 public input. I got a couple people that want to 12 address the Court. So this is the opportunity for us to 13 hear what you have to say. So whoever you wanted to -- 14 MRS. DOWDY: I've got John Sheffield. 15 MR. SHEFFIELD: Your Honor, Commissioners. 16 My name is John Sheffield, I'm the owner of the Ole 17 Ingram Grocery in Ingram, Texas. I live at 204 Verde 18 Park Boulevard in Center Point, Texas. This morning, I 19 would like to make a comment concerning the elections of 20 last week, November 8th. I'd like to bring to your 21 attention -- I did this also with Bob Reeves, by the 22 way, on November 4th, finding out about the House Bill 23 477 on the afternoon of November 3rd. 24 This is under the Government Code, Section 25 1251.052. Form. The ballot for a measure seeking voter 8 1 approval of the issuance of debt obligations by a 2 political subdivision shall specifically state: A plain 3 language description of the single specific purposes for 4 which the debt obligations are to be authorized; the 5 total principal amount of the debt obligations to be 6 authorized; and that taxes sufficient to pay the 7 principal of and interest on the debt obligations will 8 be imposed. 9 And I'm just going to take one, I have a 10 sample ballot here from Kerr County and I'm just going 11 to jump right in on it. The issuance of 5,750,000 of 12 Kerr County, Texas general obligation bonds for a new 13 animal control shelter and 11 of the tax end payment 14 thereof. 15 Now, I can talk about the other ones if 16 you'd like. Same language. Now, my issue with that is 17 is that it doesn't say anything about interest or 18 interest needed. I have been in contact with the public 19 finance division of the Attorney General's Office, and 20 we are still in discussions. But more importantly, I 21 was able to get ahold of a sample ballot from Houston, 22 Texas. It was based on an individual coming into my 23 store, having read this law, and saying well, I just -- 24 I don't live here, I live in Harris County and think 25 they've had this language. So I was able to get a copy. 9 1 And I will read it. 2 The issuance of $100 million of a public 3 safety bond for the purpose of constructing, improving, 4 renovating, equipping and acquiring land and interest in 5 land, building facilities, courthouses, and related 6 equipment for public safety purposes, and the imposition 7 of taxes sufficient to pay the principal of and interest 8 on the bond. 9 And gentlemen, we don't have that kind of 10 language in our bond. But there's only one law. And 11 it's this. To me that's a problem. That's a big 12 problem. I do appreciate your time. I brought this to 13 your attention. I brought it to Bob Reeves' attention. 14 Of course, he did read the law. He just excluded number 15 three. Thank you for your time. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Any other public input? 17 MRS. DOWDY: Yes. George Baroody. 18 MR. BAROODY: George Baroody, 1616 Glen 19 Road. So I'm here to talk about -- to ask you to do 20 something about the bond election, or to consider doing 21 something about the bond election. So the particular 22 Proposition B -- so -- well anyways, the bond elections 23 that are -- you know, that's not normally a referendum 24 on the project itself but they're really about the 25 funding mechanism being used for. In particular, 10 1 Proposition B, which y'all know, was concerning the 2 improvements of the AG barn or the event center. And 3 needs to allow to continue to be a driver of economic 4 influx for not only Kerr County but the City of 5 Kerrville. 6 So I listened to a presentation given by the 7 Pro ABC Group, and they say the projects were needed and 8 they had turned over every rock looking for a way to 9 finance it. So I asked about EIC, in particular for 10 Proposition B. 11 And the presenter said they had not 12 considered EIC because they thought EIC could not fund 13 projects outside the City limits. EIC is Economic 14 Improvement Corporation, for those of you who don't 15 know. This is, of course, incorrect. 16 The government code actually explicitly 17 grants the authority to EIC to fund projects outside the 18 City limits of Kerrville. It says basically: EIC may 19 construct, improve, maintain, equip and furnish one or 20 more projects located outside the City of Kerrville but 21 within Kerr County if the Commissioners' Court formally 22 requests EIC to do so. 23 So EIC is bound by some rules were they can 24 only fund specific types of projects. And in the 25 Government Code, it lists projects related to recreation 11 1 or community facilities, which is basically land 2 buildings, equipment, facilities and improvements for 3 entertainment, tourists, convention, including 4 exhibition facilities and other related improvement. 5 Seems like that falls squarely on what was being asked 6 to be done with the AG barn. 7 Currently, EIC is sitting on $6.5 million of 8 unallocated funds. Okay. So they can use that for any 9 project they want. There's no guarantee they'd give it 10 to anybody in particular, but they're sitting on that 11 right now. If they don't assign any new projects in the 12 next year, there's an extra two million dollars give or 13 take that will be there. 14 The taxpayers rejected paying for this 15 project be -- through taxpayer funds; however, utilizing 16 EIC essentially makes the event center pay for itself by 17 bringing in events with people that spend dollars in 18 Kerrville area thus retaining EIC. I would encourage 19 this body to consider pretty immediately taking whatever 20 Proposition B design stuff that was created and go to 21 EIC and make -- pitch a proposal to have it funded by 22 EIC. Because I think it would -- I think it would 23 behoove the City, the EIC corporation to actually pass 24 it if it helps alleviate taxpayer burden. So thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You've had the 12 1 opportunity -- anymore public input? 2 MRS. DOWDY: No. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Then this is the opportunity 4 for Commissioners' Comments. One? 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nice good rain. 6 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Again, a very nice 7 Veterans Day event Saturday. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Three? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Since we met last, 11 Divide School had there fundraiser. It was well 12 attended. I think they probably even broke the record 13 on it as far as bringing in funds and what have you. 14 Again, thank you for the rain. Hope it keeps coming. 15 That's about it. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Then before I start the 17 Consideration Agenda, I need to make you aware that we 18 have a very long agenda today. We have 33 items, 15 of 19 which are timed. And timed items means we get to those 20 items as soon as we can, maybe not exactly at 10:00, at 21 10:05 or 10:30 when they're timed. But we do have a 22 number of timed items which means we're going to skip 23 around on the agenda because we have to go to the next 24 one that's timed. And for that reason in particular, I 25 am going to enforce the maximum discussion on any agenda 13 1 item to 30 minutes. That's what our rules say and 2 that's what we're going to do because we have so much to 3 do today. 4 I think this is at least the third time 5 we've been here to talk about the library. So maybe it 6 will be a little more succinct. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, Judge, I think 8 we've got quite a few people looking out here in the 9 crowd on both sides of the issue. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Thirty minutes per side. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, per side. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Per side. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: How do we know who's 14 on each team? 15 JUDGE KELLY: So I can start calling them 16 off and we'll do the first six on each side? Fine with 17 me. 18 So let me call the agenda item, which is 19 Item 1.1 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 20 to terminate the Interlocal Agreement involving the 21 Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library and Animal Control. 22 That is -- that's the item, and so with that, is there a 23 motion? 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, let me -- let me 25 start this off by -- I want to dispel some of the 14 1 misinformation. I've been hearing this from across the 2 street a lot, that there's misinformation. And so let 3 me go through a few facts. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Before you start discussion I 5 need a motion and a second. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. I move to 7 terminate the Interlocal Agreement which is with City 8 Court Order 39527. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 11 The floor is open for discussion. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Back to what I 13 was saying. Here's a few things. No one here wants to 14 infringe on anyone's freedom of speech. It has never 15 been suggested. Let's get one thing straight about 16 Banned Book Week. There are no banned books in America. 17 The American government does not prohibit publishing of 18 books as Communist Russia did. 19 Books sexual -- sexualizing children are not 20 burned. Instead pornographic books for kids are 21 meticulously selected for displays and libraries 22 promoted by the American Library Association's Banned 23 Book Week. Banned Book Week is a marketing campaign to 24 pretend to be a protest. And this year they were 25 marketed to groomers. When nine out of ten -- top ten 15 1 most challenged books are considered to be sexually 2 explicit or considered to have sexually explicit images, 3 Banned Book Week was more like porn week for kids. 4 No one is against the library. We're all 5 for the library. The library is a tremendous asset to 6 this community. But following American Library 7 Association's agenda, the issue, our library -- our 8 librarian even said that they are not obligated to 9 follow the ALA recommendations or guidelines. This is 10 not a left or right issue. 11 Just like with schoolteachers, libraries 12 should remain neutral and not promote ideology. If 13 people want to seek this information out, fine, they can 14 find it in the library. 15 LGBTQ is not the issue and never was as many 16 have suggested. This is not a loud minority speaking 17 out. You are kidding yourself if you believe this. The 18 issue has awakened the momma bears, soccer moms and 19 their moms. Last Tuesday when the City Council was 20 trying to frame this as such, this County voted 78 to 80 21 percent for conservative candidates to represent them 22 that do not endorse what happened here during Banned 23 Book Week. 24 The last lie I would like to put to rest, 25 it's the County's fault if the Interlocal Agreement is 16 1 terminated and the City has nothing to do with it. 2 That's wrong. Last Tuesday the City Council had an 3 agenda item, 10.D., the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library 4 participation Banned Book Week, the library's policy, 5 the library's association with American Library 6 Association and the personal conduct regarding these 7 matters. 8 Councilman Garcia moved to follow suit on 9 this agenda item. He didn't get a second. Here's the 10 question I would like everyone in this room or viewing 11 on YouTube to ask themselves: What all -- with all that 12 has been uncovered about the American Library 13 Association, why is the City Council unwilling to just 14 cut ties with them from here on forward? That's a 15 question. Think about that. This is a simple solution 16 to all this. Why don't they do it? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have a couple 18 comments. You know, I have -- in the last couple months 19 I've reached out to three on the City Council and City 20 Manager and City Attorney and had good conversations 21 with most of them. And I was somewhat encouraged that 22 at their last City Council meeting, which I was not at 23 but I visited with City Manager and he told me this, 24 that City Council did refer looking at the policy to the 25 library advisory committee, which we do have a member on 17 1 that committee, and they were going to look at it and 2 come back to City Council. I guess that's a step in the 3 right way. 4 I really wish council would do it by 5 themselves. They certainly have the authority to do it. 6 But if they want to go through their committee process 7 that's up to them and I hold out hope that they will 8 come up with a policy that certainly does not ban any 9 books, but any kind of, how I look at it as, sexually 10 explicit books should not be available to minors. They 11 can be at the library. They can be accessed with a 12 parent or guardian of that child. That's all I'm asking 13 for. And I think that's pretty reasonable. 14 That's all being said, I also am a 15 Commissioner who's spent a lot of time looking at 16 documents and our agreements. And in being -- I visited 17 with the City Manager last week, something came up that 18 was quite interesting. The -- and many of y'all know 19 that in September the City and the County extended the 20 current agreement by one year; however, the agreement 21 that was referenced in that extension was the wrong 22 agreement. It referenced an old agreement. 23 That old agreement, which was the 2017 24 agreement, required that cancellation be given within 25 the first 180 days of the contract. It's a logical 18 1 thing to have in there because we all have budgets and 2 we need to plan for future events, and the idea was that 3 by April 1st cancellation had to be -- notice had to be 4 given so it keeps the entities working on their budget. 5 In 2019, there's a new agreement that gave a 6 90-day cancellation clause. And that was the agreement 7 that we currently were operating under that expired in 8 September; however, the extension we did referenced the 9 other agreement. So it's a big question at the moment 10 as to where we are with the agreement right now anyway, 11 whether it's in place or not in place and to me it's 12 somewhat irrelevant. 13 The issue is -- and the City has agreed to 14 this and we've talked about it, the agreement needs to 15 be looked at and redone. The only way you can look at 16 it is to start negotiating and talking to the City about 17 a new agreement. And that's what we're doing today. 18 That's what -- you know, to me you've got to cancel it 19 because it's -- step away, I don't think anything's 20 going to change for using the 90-day period that I 21 believe was in it, Mr. Harris. I think it's 90 days to 22 do it. 23 My preference would be to give 120 days 24 period to negotiate because we've had -- realistically 25 we have holidays for the next six weeks. That would 19 1 give the -- basically the entire first quarter for 2 the -- if the City wants to use the library advisory 3 board for them to meet and go over things and get back 4 to City Council. 5 And during that period if everyone is 6 working in good faith, I think the -- it could even be 7 extended beyond that. So that's just a comment that I 8 have that, you know, this agreement was going to be 9 canceled, renegotiated any way you look at it, even if 10 this whole issue never even happened. And I think 11 that's an important thing to remember. 12 I mean it's not likely the County's just 13 saying we're walking away from the agreement, we're not 14 going to provide Animal Services. We're saying no in 15 the marriage of this. That the agreement has -- needs 16 to be tweaked. There's some problems with it. That's 17 what we're doing, in my opinion. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Beck? 19 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: I have some comments. 20 I won't bore you with some of the introductory portions 21 of it and I'm not very good as a contemporary speaker so 22 I -- I'll tell you what I read after I kind of deduced 23 it. 24 When I returned from Viet Nam in the 25 military at Texas Tech, I was on a college debate team, 20 1 required to actively engage in the thought and logic of 2 both sides of an issue. That "both sides of an issue" 3 training was later, again, instrumental in my logic and 4 thought pattern for 45-plus years career as a real 5 estate appraiser. The object of which was a neutral but 6 correct answer regardless of the motives of the parties 7 involved. 8 With that training and background in mind, 9 I've attempted to review the library issue with as much 10 objectivity and detachment as possible. In addition to 11 my personal inquiries, I've quietly listened to all the 12 discussions and opinions, literally hours, expressed on 13 the matter and the City and the County deliberations. 14 My general conclusion is that there was a 15 perceived left wing element to the American Library 16 Association that's riled up a right wing 17 counter-cultural reaction and they threw a hand grenade 18 at our library. 19 Here's what I think I know. Upon my 20 appointment to the Commissioners' Court, I was assigned 21 various liaison duties like the Veterans Advisory Board, 22 the Airport Board, and the Library Advisory Board. What 23 could go wrong? I was unaware of any voting authority 24 and none was specified in the library/animal shelter 25 agreement. Nevertheless, I'm noted in the library -- in 21 1 the January library board minutes as a positive vote for 2 the banned book exhibit. No specific details were given 3 to me as to content and I did not think to inquire. We 4 did the same thing last year, which that's kind of how 5 that thing got passed. 6 If it had been presented to me as an issue 7 that was an issue debated in other libraries in the year 8 before, I may or may not have voted for it but I would 9 have at least cautioned them that this issue might blow 10 up in the manner that it has. 11 Regardless, I'm guilty of not doing a more 12 thorough study of the policies and my authority and 13 responsibilities. That's on me. 14 The Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library is a 15 member of the Texas Library Association, which obviously 16 provides the same policies and procedures as were 17 promulgated by the ALA over a number of years, including 18 the Library Bill of Rights originating in 1939. 19 The policies of book selection, I'm talking 20 about in Kerrville, display and operation are the 21 responsibility of the Library Advisory Board, not the 22 librarian. When objections were made of the display, 23 the librarian and staff were courteous and professional 24 and essentially defended the policy of the Library 25 Advisory Board. I've listened to a recording of the 22 1 initial confrontation -- conversation concerning the 2 banned book exhibit, which generally ended with a "we 3 agree to disagree." The negative allegations directed 4 to the librarians are unjustified. The librarian staff 5 were merely doing their job based on their education, 6 professional training, and authority. They do not 7 deserve the personal assault and even death threats. 8 That's unacceptable. 9 The staff demonstrated no personal affinity 10 or defense of the books or grooming in the exhibit. 11 They merely defended the library's right or purpose for 12 the exhibit. That the books were objectionable was the 13 point of the exhibit. 14 The position of the Texas Library 15 Association and the Butt-Holdsworth Library is one of 16 defending against censorship. My personal exposure to 17 the broad spectrum of people I've known and worked with, 18 both with and without religion, encourages me to agree 19 with that non-censorship policy. No one -- or no one 20 group has the right to deny me, my family, my countrymen 21 of many faiths, including no faith, of any information, 22 subject, or philosophy in the public library. 23 The hot button furor over the objectionable 24 text of graphic cartoons from Page 173 of a particular 25 book has been noted by some as being pornographic and/or 23 1 beyond free speech constitutional law, particularly as 2 related to children. And I've listened to seemingly 3 authoritative rebuttal of that. 4 I have no legal authority or guidance on 5 this matter but I, like others, have a knee-jerk 6 negative reaction to the graphic depiction of it. 7 However, the graphic content of the book that was so 8 objectionable was subsequently on e-mail, internet and 9 various other social media, ironically exposing it to 10 children. 11 If it was exposed pornography, who is most 12 complicit, the library, with a closed book, or the 13 parties that published it on social media? We can all 14 do better. 15 The City Council has directed the Library 16 Advisory Board to make a thorough review of the current 17 library board policy and report back to the council with 18 recommendations for changes, if any. The library policy 19 has a formal means of objection that was not used by the 20 offended parties. I do not know if it was offered. I 21 will note however, if offered, it is an onerous and 22 bureaucratic document that is unlikely to encourage 23 courteous dialogue if forced upon a complainant. 24 The County and City agreement may need to 25 include more members of each entity to sit on the Board 24 1 of the other. Library and animal shelter. I gather 2 that the City has alternatively had to defend the 3 policies or activities concerning the County run animal 4 shelter. 5 The City/County Agreement itself needs 6 clarity, as Jonathan just described. Although some 7 details of the agreement may be improved, the same 8 problem will always remain when parties object to some 9 book or demand censorship within the library. Who makes 10 the censuring decisions? You, me, Harley, some 11 bureaucratic board? Are you willing to defend your 12 censorship choices to the public? 13 There is no universally agreed upon perfect 14 person or opinions on what is appropriate. It is a 15 slippery slope with no credible answer. This is 16 apparently the logic that has dictated the long-term 17 policies of libraries through the United States that 18 allow all material without censorship and is likely the 19 reasoning for relying on parental supervision rather 20 than allowing censorship of children readership. 21 In my opinion, an immediate decision to 22 sever the library/animal shelter agreement due to the 23 library issue is shooting ourselves in the foot twice. 24 Additionally, I now have City dwellers 25 objecting to supporting the animal shelter bond for 25 1 services that they will no longer receive if the 2 agreement is severed. I also recognize that this action 3 would hinder non-City homeschool activity. 4 The current contract ends in October of 5 2023. There are likely adjustments needed to be made 6 for other reasons, but they should be negotiated over 7 time rather than immediately. The agreement, even with 8 its flaws, has an economy of scale that has served the 9 public well, and all effort should be made to extend it. 10 Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I normally -- 12 because I talk a lot -- don't write down notes. But I 13 did for this. Make sure I don't forget anything. I 14 appreciate what Jonathan shares because we may not have 15 an agreement at all right now anyway. So we -- we need 16 to vote before we're done to start over again. 17 But I want to say my piece anyway. This is 18 about the American Library Association so-called Bill of 19 Rights, which makes -- I read it. It makes the absurd 20 claim that minors should have access to all materials in 21 the library. Now, they also include a veiled threat 22 that to deny children access might be breaking the law. 23 The exact opposite is true. The ALA doesn't get to 24 decide constitutional issues. Believe it or not, we 25 have a Supreme Court for that. And the ALA doesn't get 26 1 to do that. 2 Based on the ALA's absurd claim, I could go 3 in there and demand that my four-year old grandson get 4 to see precious reference books and have access to them. 5 You think that's a good idea? The question, should 6 minors be allowed to buy tobacco? Should they? Now, 7 what happens to an adult who provides tobacco for a kid? 8 Get in any trouble? What about alcohol? What about 9 pornography outside the library? 10 Those pictures that I saw inside the 11 library, if I was to show a child outside the library 12 this man in the back of the room would lock me up before 13 the end of the day. And anybody that would do that 14 would deserve to be locked up. 15 So the ALA would have you believe the 16 library is a special place where kids become adults 17 suddenly when they walk in the door. The 18 Butt-Holdsworth Library, the City of Kerrville has 19 decided that these obscene materials are okay for 20 minors. The ALA advocates just that. 21 Now, this is from access to library 22 resources for services for minors and interpretation, ad 23 nauseam. Constitutionally protected speech cannot be 24 suppressed solely to protect children or young adults 25 from ideas or images a legislative body believes to be 27 1 unsuitable for them. 2 Librarians and library governing bodies. 3 Now that's the first sentence. The second sentence 4 seems to negate the first one. Librarians and library 5 governing bodies should not resort to age restrictions 6 in an effort to avoid actual or anticipated objections 7 because only a court of law can determine whether or not 8 the content is constitutionally protected. So it sounds 9 like to me they talk out both sides of their mouth 10 there. I'm certainly not a lawyer. 11 The ALA appropriating the name of our 12 revered genuine bill of rights is a cheap attempt at 13 conferring importance on their absurd -- it's really a 14 treatise if you read it. It's not so much policy, it's 15 a -- it's a treatise. And it carries no weight. It's 16 nonbinding. 17 Everybody's pointing to the American Library 18 Association Bill of Rights as if it's some kind of a 19 legal document, which it's not. It's a policy document. 20 Now, a vocal minority, including majority of 21 the City Council of Kerrville, put forward this canard 22 that this argument is about free speech. It is not 23 about free speech. It's about sexualizing our children 24 under the pretense of protecting the First Amendment. 25 How far will you go with the First Amendment? We have 28 1 recipe books for killing and eating human beings. 2 That's free speech. Will they carry those kind of books 3 at the library? How far will you go and allow this -- 4 look, those who can't see the deference in this being 5 free speech and this being advocacy, and they should 6 just excuse themselves from the argument. Because 7 they're apparently incapable of parsing the difference. 8 The Mayor won't allow the display of the 9 pictures from the books in City Council meetings. That 10 might tell you something. And if more people saw those 11 pictures I don't think we'd be talking about this right 12 now, folks. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I do not. And I agree 15 with Commissioner Gipson that those pictures should not 16 have been shared the way they were. I was shocked when 17 I opened up my e-mail and saw them. But how else do you 18 get people to pay attention. I don't know that there's 19 another way. 20 I know before slavery ended in this country 21 the slaves were brought from town to town and they -- 22 they were showing the people how they were whipped and 23 beat. People have to see these things themselves. So 24 the City of Kerrville and the Butt-Holdsworth Library 25 have had ample time to correct this mis -- to admit and 29 1 correct the mistake, but they chose instead to thumb 2 their noses at concerned parents. They posted employee 3 spotlights, employee of the month. They made a big deal 4 out of things going on at the library. 5 And again, I'm all for the library. I've 6 taken the kids to all kinds of things at the library 7 through the years. You can be against child obscenity 8 and child grooming and be for the library. I hope at 9 the end of all this we'll all be on that same page. I'm 10 against doing this to children and making this stuff 11 available to kids. I am for the library and for it 12 being a safe place for the kids. 13 So they have had ample time, but they've 14 made a big PR push. You may have noticed it lately. 15 More than usual. No apology. No changes. So even the 16 councilman -- Councilwoman Hughes gave a cringe-worthy 17 high school debate class presentation pitting the Holy 18 Bible against the images of sex acts with kids in these 19 books. That was just ridiculous. So the City is 20 defending the indefensible. I keep asking why. 21 Now, if you want to blame somebody for 22 ending this Interlocal Agreement you can blame the City 23 of Kerrville. They're the ones that dumped the hot coal 24 in our lap. They're the ones that presented that stuff 25 in the library and then defended it. Didn't offer an 30 1 apology. Didn't do any -- they said, oh, we'll move it 2 to another place. Well, that was really charitable of 3 them, wasn't it? So they're the ones who have done 4 this. They have put out the child sexualizing books in 5 the library. They defended it. They had plenty of 6 warning. 7 I went to the City Council meeting myself 8 and said please don't do this. Please change the 9 policy. Don't die on this hill. Those were my words. 10 They ignored me. So I don't want Kerr County to have 11 any part in subsidizing the sexualizing of children. 12 They knew this. They made their decision. They chose. 13 The City of Kerrville chose. 14 This -- this nonsense about us having a bait 15 and switch. The bond issue was already in play long 16 before this came up. This is not a bait and switch. I 17 saw the little memes going around the internet. It's 18 nonsense. 19 The liberals always demand that traditional 20 value of conservatives compromise. Well, not this time, 21 folks. And it's because it's about our children. This 22 is not about free speech. I will not give an inch on 23 this. I don't care if it hairlips everybody in this 24 room. It's about our children. And there's no giving 25 in on that. This is not about the First Amendment. 31 1 It's about allowing our kids to be sexualized. The 2 First Amendment does not protect sex predators. Even if 3 it's on the printed page. I'm here for protecting the 4 children. Getting back to things the way they were. 5 Don't promote this crap. 6 You know, you'll notice in the news there's 7 a big push for all of this everywhere. Kerrville Public 8 Library doesn't need to be part of it. The library is 9 not comprehensive right now nor will it ever be. Every 10 book published doesn't have to be in our library. They 11 make selections, folks. They make selections on 12 purpose. This dropping books is a common occurrence. 13 They do it over there all the time. Dropping a few more 14 books in the name of decency and protecting our children 15 won't hurt a darn thing. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before you go -- 18 just one general comment. Real short. There's been a 19 lot of misinformation about the Animal Control and what 20 the County does and what's actually in this agreement. 21 The County is and will remain the rabies control 22 authority for all of Kerr County, including everyone in 23 the City of Kerrville. 24 The difference is, there are some certain 25 items that we are doing under the interlocal in the City 32 1 that we're not doing under the County. And they're not 2 huge from the standpoint of overall operations. It 3 deals with cats a little bit. It deals with cruelty 4 investigations. It deals with transporting animals. 5 That's what the -- is, you know, basically what we're 6 talking about with the Animal Control. 7 So I mean, I keep hearing that we're -- you 8 know, there will be no Animal Services in the City. 9 That's just not true. We're going to continue 10 regardless of what happens. Even if there's no 11 agreement ever again, we'll continue to be the Rabies 12 Control Authority for the City of Kerrville and the rest 13 of Kerr County. 14 And the only difference is, the City will 15 not have input into that. It'll be -- we will follow 16 State Law. And so I -- I want to quit hearing that 17 we're not going to have any facilities. They're not 18 going to be able to use the facility. It's all bogus. 19 It's not true. We're talking about a very small area of 20 that -- what animal control is currently doing in the 21 City that's up for -- that's really at issue. Anyway, 22 that's all I have, Judge. Thank you. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We can open the floor 24 for public comment. But I've got 28 requests to speak 25 and we can't do that. I'll limit it to 30 minutes per 33 1 side. We can take a short break and let you all visit 2 with one another so you can pick out the people that you 3 want to speak for your cause and then let's do that. 4 And we'll come back at a quarter till. 5 (Recess.) 6 JUDGE KELLY: Order in the court. Let's 7 have order in the court. Close the back door. Very 8 well. I know there's an organized group here in favor 9 of terminating this Interlocal Agreement. I think you 10 all are pretty easily picking out your designated 11 speakers. We're trying to limit that time to 30 minutes 12 per side. Those of you that are here defending the 13 library or against terminating the Interlocal Agreement, 14 we'll take your -- we'll take your comments second. 15 We'll take the negative comments first. 16 So I've got a stack of people, of speakers. 17 Who have y'all designated to speak. 18 MR. ALLEN: Well, I'm one of them. Scott 19 Allen. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Go for it. 22 MR. ALLEN: All right. Before I begin -- 23 yes, sir, I understand. I spent this week -- I would 24 ask the Court to make that a part of the public record. 25 It is documents containing facts and evidence as opposed 34 1 to rhetoric and language. I made -- I would prefer 2 y'all -- 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Just hand us the whole 4 stack. 5 MR. ALLEN: Okay. I would prefer that 6 you -- you can read them now, but it's often -- I was 7 trained as a trial lawyer, you don't hand out the 8 document until you're through with your examination 9 because people will read it instead of listen. I think 10 I've been granted -- how many minutes? I think I've 11 gotten nine. Can somebody -- 12 So if any -- if I go -- if somebody can give 13 me notice of that. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Let's start. 15 MR. ALLEN: I am starting. 16 All right. When I use the term "banned 17 book," I'm using that in quotes this entire time. There 18 are no banned books. Somebody's already said it. But 19 if I use the term, I do not mean that the book is 20 banned. When I use the word "ALA," I mean the American 21 Library Association. 22 I didn't prepare -- I did prepare remarks. 23 I can usually speak extemporaneously. I want to address 24 one thing Commissioner Gipson said. And I -- and 25 forgive me if I misquote you. 35 1 My name's Scott Allen, Precinct 4. You 2 indicated something like this, and I apologize, the far 3 right people got activated because of the politics of 4 the situation. Not me. I had no idea about the 5 politics of the situation or who the American Library 6 Association was when I got interested in this issue. 7 I'm going to leave it at this. I keep up 8 with the news. And I was familiar with these books by 9 doing so in the past. And when I found out about these 10 books, then I looked into it. 11 Now, who -- and there are politics in this 12 situation, but it's the American Library Association; 13 not Scott Allen, and not the people that seek to keep 14 these books from children. All this is in the documents 15 that I provided you. I'm going to read this to you. 16 And these are selective portions. 17 The elected president of the American 18 Library Association identifies herself, this is her 19 talking, not people that they're claiming are 20 homophobes. This is her words. She's a gender and 21 sexuality and information study specialist. She's 22 written articles, all of which I can't read because 23 they'd take up the entire time, including "Queering the 24 library space: Notes towards a new geography of the 25 library space." 36 1 She has an active statement that she wants 2 to queer the library. She gave two interviews which are 3 in your material -- all of this is in your material. 4 One to the Jack The Lad Magazine, which is an American 5 magazine of the socialist party. Here's her interview. 6 Meet the socialist librarian running for president of 7 the American Library Association. 8 She has also given an interview to Red 9 Fault. It is an Austin Democratic Socialist of America 10 publication entitled, "Creating a socialist vision for 11 public libraries: A Conversation with Emily Drabinski." 12 So when anybody accuses anybody of posing these books 13 for children, of politicizing the issue, it is the 14 American Library Association, before we ever got 15 involved, who -- who seeks to politicize the library. 16 I will give you a few of the quotes of Emily 17 Drabinski, the president elect of the American Library 18 Association, contained in her interviews, and in her 19 campaign platform called "Collective power, public 20 good," when she campaigned for president. 21 Liberals are -- I'll skip over. She said, 22 Libraries are important to engage people because we are 23 all suffering from the maldistribution of wealth. We 24 need a president of the American Library Association 25 whose public statements will be socialist in tone. 37 1 There's a real appetite for that right now, she says, 2 speaking of the role of the library in the community in 3 which they serve. Helping people access the language of 4 a socialist vision is the role of the library. 5 She says, I'm a member of the democratic 6 socialist party of America in name and contribution. I 7 am openly a socialist. I am absolutely a marxist, and I 8 am absolutely a lesbian. We have to be brave. We have 9 to be willing to fight. 10 Speaking of the -- in her campaign for ALA 11 president, she says this: We need to make libraries a 12 site for the struggle. The importance of libraries as 13 part of what you and I might call a socialist vision. I 14 did not politicize libraries. The people that don't 15 want to have children sexualized libraries didn't do it. 16 The American Library Association, they voted in and they 17 support a socialist marxist vision for the library. Not 18 because I say so, in her own words in the documents I 19 provided you. So if anybody stands up here later and 20 says we're trying to politicize everything, you're 21 wrong. Now -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: That's five minutes. Just so 23 you know. 24 MR. ALLEN: Thank you very much. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No, you can keep 38 1 going. Keep going. 2 MR. ALLEN: Okay. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Just keeping track of time. 4 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. I -- I appreciate 5 it, Judge Kelly. 6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: But we're limited to 7 30. 8 MR. ALLEN: Well, I thought I got -- had 9. 9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Go ahead. 10 MR. ALLEN: So somebody's going to -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: You've wasted a minute. 12 MR. ALLEN: Well, Judge -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Get on track. 14 MR. ALLEN: I was on track. I -- okay, 15 there's a lot more to say. And I think we've been 16 hamstrung by the way in our debate when you debate the 17 issue. Judge Gipson, with all due respect -- or 18 Commissioner Gipson, if we're not allowed to display the 19 pictures and discuss the content of books to discuss 20 sexualization of children, they say you can't say that, 21 but they want to argue that the books are fine with 22 children, how do you fight back? It's like telling 23 somebody to get in a boxing match with their hands tied 24 behind their mouth -- back and a gag in their mouth. 25 But I'm going to tell you something. The 39 1 City knows that these books are inappropriate for 2 children. Because when one citizen read one passage 3 from one book, not all ten, the City when they put the 4 proceedings on YouTube said sign in to confirm your age. 5 The video may be inappropriate for some users. If the 6 position of the people about these books is oh, they're 7 fine for children, the City knows that they're not. 8 They know. The definition of hypocrisy is to say one 9 thing, but act differently. That is the most obvious 10 example. 11 Let me tell you one other quick story. 12 Thank you very much. Let me tell you one more quick 13 story. One citizen had the bravery to read that passage 14 at a City Council meeting. After she was confronted by 15 the Chief of Police and threatened with arrest and 16 prosecution for disorderly conduct. So let me get this 17 straight. And by the way, it continued. She contacted 18 me. I'm a retired lawyer. Never did criminal work. 19 She doesn't have the funds to hire a lawyer. I told her 20 I would defend her for free. If you could be arrested 21 or charged with a crime, and I asked him what he called 22 it. I told her not to talk to him anymore. 23 He called me and I'm quoting. I took a 24 note. I recorded it, and in writing. It's on my 25 computer. He told me the reason she should be charged 40 1 with a crime is because the language she used was 2 disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace, and I said 3 first of all, he was wrong. But I -- but I said what -- 4 on what basis? He said the language she read was vulgar 5 and obscene. She was reading from the book. 6 And let me make one final point. If the 7 City can put a warning up says sign in to confirm your 8 age, did they put that on the press release? That when 9 you go to the library you need to be warned that the 10 materials are inappropriate for some users? Did they 11 put this on the table where they put on the display for 12 children and minors? Did they put this on the books? 13 I appreciate your time. There's far more to 14 say, and I do not appreciate the comments of council 15 members Hughes and Herring. We're not demonizing 16 anyone. He attempted to demonize us. It's unfair, it's 17 inappropriate, and it's wrong. And I don't have -- I'm 18 not even close to being finished, but I have to stop. 19 And I appreciate everybody's time. Thank you. 20 MR. ESPENLAUB: I request one minute, Your 21 Honor. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. This is 23 Mr. Espenlaub. He got here at eight o'clock to be first 24 on the list and so I'm going to let him speak. 25 MR. ESPENLAUB: David Espenlaub, 330 George 41 1 Hill Road in Kerrville. Anyway, yeah, I only need 60 2 seconds. Because of the excellent comments of 3 Commissioner Harris and Commissioner Belew and Mr. 4 Allen, with which I fully agree. And so most of my 5 comments are unnecessary because they've been said. But 6 if there's any doubt in anyone's mind on this Board 7 about the material, I have a copy of the material from 8 the ten books that were in the library, that's still in 9 the library due to the inaction of the City, I will 10 remind you. If you're brave enough to read this, it's 11 very horrendous what's still on display and what was 12 promoted. 13 The ALA came up with a list of ten books 14 which are the most controversial, the most objected to, 15 the most heinous books in the country. And this is the 16 bookmark that was given to everyone that came to the 17 Banned Book Week. This is the bookmark that will be 18 circulated to children. To everyone. And the books are 19 still in the library. So I challenge you. That's my 60 20 seconds. If you'd like a copy of this. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Just give them to her. 22 MRS. DOWDY: Thank you. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 24 MR. ESPENLAUB: Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So if I go by the list, the 42 1 next speaker would be Barbara Ferguson. 2 MS. FERGUSON: I'll just take a moment 3 because I've spoken on this before. But we continue to 4 gather signatures. We're over 1350 signatures now. 5 People who are asking that these books be moved from the 6 children's department into the adult section of the 7 library. That is not censorship; it's a classification 8 issue. All they have to do is reclassify them and they 9 classify books all the time. It's a very simple ask. 10 Commissioner Harris, Commissioner Belew, 11 thank you so much for your comments. I agree 100 12 percent with both of them. And thank you to everybody 13 who's working so hard on this. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Susan Deininger. 15 MS. DEININGER: Susan Deininger, Kerrville. 16 I'll be brief also. But this is not a direction that 17 I've seen it approached from before. Thank you, 18 gentlemen, all of you, for your comments and all. 19 I am a retired licensed clinical social 20 worker with postmasters work at Menninger Clinic. My 21 last 12 years were as an LCSW with San Deigo County 22 Mental Health Special Education Services. We accepted 23 San Diego County school students with emotional problems 24 that the school felt unequipped to serve. We provided 25 diagnostic services and referrals to specialized 43 1 programs. 2 I have also seen three of my own children 3 educated and come face to face with educational 4 breakdown, the system's arrogance in its interaction 5 with parents, and this attempt to remove parental 6 involvement in children's education. 7 The library issue is an extension of the 8 school agenda. There are critical periods in 9 intellectual development. The schools, churches and 10 libraries all work together to recognize that the task 11 for children between five and 11 were to learn to read, 12 to write, and basic math. To do this in a social 13 setting. 14 Part of this experience was to clarify their 15 own gifts, their own interests, their weaknesses and 16 strengths in contrast to their age. If you do not learn 17 to read, write, or do math during those years then you 18 are stunted in your intellectual development. Other 19 tasks come along and more rigorous learning is supposed 20 to occur because the basics have been taught. You are 21 being prepared to be a functioning, thinking adult. 22 Ready to be a worker and make the emotional commitment 23 of a potential provider or parent. 24 At this time, in 2022, we are seeing large 25 numbers of our students unable to read, to write or do 44 1 basic math. They are not able to read for themselves 2 the consequences of sex alteration. They are told and 3 given only superficial information. None of the books I 4 read talk about, much less encourage, responsibility in 5 sexual activity, exploration or relationship. Taking 6 the focus off the intellectual development of children 7 and placing it on major social issues and sex does not 8 benefit our society. But it is a grooming for 9 sensuality and emotionality. 10 If you've seen the gay parades, watched any 11 of the drag shows involve children, there's nothing but 12 sexually visual stimulation. How does this benefit the 13 children? 14 Relating to the library, I checked out "I Am 15 Jazz," from the library. There are colorful, large 16 letters, easily read and illustrates exactly my point 17 from a slightly different angle. This is a little boy 18 with two older brothers and an older sister. This 19 unhappy little boy is transitioned into a girl. Jazz. 20 The initial counseling is done by a school 21 counselor and the parents are told the psychologist's 22 recommendation. There was never any discussion could 23 this child be having a hard time because he doesn't know 24 where he fits into a busy family with two older 25 brothers? There is no suggestion that there's any 45 1 balancing voice to help this family get through this 2 stage with their son. Learning to enjoy girls without 3 having to become one. As a man he could marry a woman 4 and have the female experience. 5 These books are the essence of grooming. 6 Writing of the angst, the anxiety, the desire for 7 relationships and sex, with no mention of possible 8 negative consequences. Just enjoy. They're slick and 9 seductive. These books are for those 18 and older. 10 We expect our librarians, who are very 11 friendly and helpful, to be a part of that system that 12 the members and contribute to what the purpose is of the 13 various developmental stages of our children. Thank 14 you. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. That was about three 16 and a half minutes. We're at -- we're about 13 and a 17 half minutes so far. The next speaker is Guy Bubba 18 Walters. 19 MR. WALTERS: I've lived here 26 years. 20 I've coached in this community for 26 years. I taught 21 kindergarten through college. Retired teacher, working 22 now back in the County at a school. I taught sex 23 education for ten years. And you have to have a 24 parent's permission slip to have your child go through 25 sex education. And that is just videos on abstinence 46 1 and protection and all that stuff and childbirth. 2 And I heard somebody say well, you need to 3 check out a book, you had to have your parent sign off 4 on it if you were a minor. You still -- that kid can 5 still look at it. It's wrong. It is 100 percent wrong 6 because that's not what our children need. 7 As the lady said before me, it's about 8 education. It has nothing to do -- I -- I taught kids, 9 believe it or not, in this County that were transgender. 10 I've coached kids who are transgender. I've coached 11 kids who were homosexual. I don't care what you are. I 12 don't. You do your job. If you become a good person 13 and you're good to this community, that's what matters. 14 But it's not their right to teach our kids about that. 15 It is my right as a dad, and my right as a 16 future grandparent. My wife has taken our kids to that 17 library. I've gone in there. It's a great place. But 18 what is happening is wrong. It is 100 percent wrong. 19 And I agree with what you guys are doing or trying to 20 do. I just wanted to come as an educator from a 21 different perspective. Being around kids from 22 kindergarten through 25 years old and I've taught them 23 all. 24 And I'm -- I'm proud of this community. 25 I've lived here -- I've -- I've worked Little League on 47 1 the Board. I've coached some great kids in this 2 community. I've had kids come on from everywhere and be 3 super super productive in their lives. I've worked in 4 the Stock Show Association. I've helped in Little 5 Leagues. All that. I just want you to know this is not 6 what our kids need. Thank you. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Next is Susan Johnson. 8 SHERIFF LEITHA: They're checking upstairs. 9 MR. ALLEN: Judge, while we're waiting, I 10 forgot to say the obligatory "I love the library." I 11 meant to say that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well noted. 13 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, I -- I think, you know, 14 kind of like I stand with Ukraine. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Ms. Johnson? 16 MS. JOHNSON: Yes. 17 JUDGE KELLY: You may proceed. 18 MS. JOHNSON: My question is, how is 19 sexualization of our children benefitting our community? 20 I'm a mom, a grandmother and a recently retired teacher. 21 In doing some research on the books being objected to, I 22 read this passage from, "A Court of Mist and Fury," by 23 Sara Maas. "Taking in the six full length of him, he 24 jutted in further rolling his hips forward and as he 25 teasingly stuck his finger in, I moaned wanting more." 48 1 This is one tiny slice of garbage on the list. 2 The target audience of these books is -- of 3 books ranges from ages 9 to 12. That happens to be the 4 age range of three of my grandsons. I'm embarrassed to 5 read this in front of adults and would never allow my 6 fourth, sixth and seventh grade grandsons to read this. 7 The over-sexualization of our children is 8 rampant and as an educator I've seen the devastation of 9 children's innocence and happiness firsthand as a result 10 of these issues. But we all seem to agree that it's a 11 good idea to lock doors and build fences to keep our 12 children safe from predators at school, but somehow it's 13 acceptable to open the door wide and escort intellectual 14 sewage into our young impressionable minds. 15 Porn has been proven in study after study to 16 be more addicting than cocaine. Why would we do this to 17 our children? Texas has one of the highest sex 18 trafficking problems in the nation. What do we think 19 the end goal of teaching children how to have sex and do 20 sex acts of every kind is? To me, supporting this 21 literature in Kerrville public library says that 22 Kerrville supports pornography for children. 23 If parents want this for their children, let 24 them order it on Amazon but let's not put the stamp of 25 approval from our sitting fathers on this perversion. 49 1 Thank you. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Next is Marcia King. 3 SHERIFF LEITHA: They're checking. Cris is 4 up there watching. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 6 SHERIFF LEITHA: And who's the one after 7 her? 8 JUDGE KELLY: Cari(sic) Sumrall. Did I say 9 that right? 10 MRS. STEBBINS: It's Cori. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Cori Sumrall. 12 MRS. STEBBINS: Uh-huh. She was out there 13 right when I came in. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And Aiden Chaney. Jody 15 Carpenter. 16 MS. PUCCIO: Jody is right here. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sheriff, we're just 18 going down the list. Go ahead. 19 MS. CARPENTER: Hi. My name is Jody 20 Carpenter. I live at 100 Nimitz Drive in Kerrville, 21 Texas. I have been a citizen of this beautiful County 22 the majority of my life. And I am here to ask 23 respectfully that you guys -- we just need to kind of 24 cut fellowship right now with the library. I believe 25 freedom of speech is a valuable fundamental piece in 50 1 this complicated puzzle that is America. I think that 2 history paints a dismal picture when that power is taken 3 from a society, so I am very protective of my privilege. 4 Because it is that. A privilege. It was earned by 5 blood. 6 That being said, I also believe that that 7 privilege is being dragged through the mud right now 8 when we are defending a publication of an illegal act to 9 elicit sex from a child. That is not free speech when 10 we are taking someone else's free speech, especially 11 that of an innocent child. Introducing them to the 12 subject of sex too early can cause lifelong mental and 13 emotional damage. 14 I, of all people, know this. I was raised 15 by a pedophile and I was groomed by a teenager when I 16 was four. It broke me for the majority of my life and 17 affected a lot of my life choices as a child. Child for 18 me was not innocent and free; it was a prison. Any 19 person that infringes on a child's innocence is not for 20 free speech. 21 That being said, this subject is very near 22 and dear to my heart as I have tried to protect the 23 innocence of my own children while they have grown. It 24 is clear to me that this, protecting and guarding young 25 minds, is not high up on the ALA's agenda. In fact, I 51 1 think it's the opposite. I read excerpts out of many of 2 the books displayed on so-called Banned Books Week and I 3 think it's very clear what their agenda is. 4 That being said, I want to question the 5 ethics that are driving the ALA and request that we 6 break ties with them. Mrs. Bergotti(phonetic) of 7 Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library stated that having the 8 ALA's approval was like the gold standard for public 9 libraries. What I want to say is if books like Gender 10 Queer are what the gold standard is, I want nothing to 11 do with. 12 Mrs. Bergotti also read that the ALA has a 13 code of ethics. Ethics, as defined in my dictionary or 14 any dictionary you would find on the shelf at any public 15 library, as it is defined as a set of moral principles. 16 Well, I call into question the moral principles of the 17 ALA. I know right now anyone who even goes against this 18 issue is being labeled part of the loud minority by 19 members of the City Council. 20 But I want to respectfully remind those that 21 sit in that governing body that you are also up there 22 for these so-called minorities in your community just as 23 much for the majority. 24 I have another question. Why is it that the 25 ALA is pushing a Banned Book Week? To my knowledge, not 52 1 one of those books was banned. I do, however, see an 2 agenda. And I am grieved by it. Gender Queer is a far 3 cry from Tom Sawyer. To only -- the only intent of the 4 book was to groom young minds for sex. 5 So I am asking, who are we allowing to set 6 the gold standard in our literature? Ethically and 7 morally, it is illegal to groom a child for sex in any 8 way. And that includes pictures. I question those that 9 defend this hogwash as literature. I question their 10 morals and ethics. The rest of the books on that list, 11 honestly, were completely offensive to me. 12 I do believe that -- that explicit sex of 13 that nature should not be available to anyone under the 14 age of 18. I think it is morally wrong. I do, however, 15 not want anyone's privilege of free speech taken from 16 them. 17 Gender Queer, which won an ALA Alex award, 18 which is an award for the ten most wanted books that 19 were what -- it says to have special appeal to young 20 adults ages 12 to 18. That is their Alex award from the 21 American Library Association that's been lauded by the 22 ALA. This makes me think their morals are twisted and 23 they might need to have some help to get them untwisted 24 as to what is morally reprehensible and morally okay for 25 kids. Everything in that book was a felony because it 53 1 was aimed at children. 2 So from here on out everything with the ALA 3 gold standard seal of approval stamped on it will not be 4 entering my house. May God have mercy on this nation 5 when child pornography is what we are lauding as great 6 works of literature. I am not for censorship but I am 7 asking for us to question who is calling the shots in 8 this mess and if we want to be affiliated anymore with 9 them if they are celebrating this type of material and 10 also misrepresenting these books as banned literature. 11 Isn't it still okay for me, an American 12 citizen, to question the powers that be and their 13 motives? Isn't that what free speech is all about? As 14 a citizen of this beautiful country and county, I think 15 we can do without the ALA driving what kind of materials 16 go into our library and I am asking that pornography not 17 be available to children. It will break them. Thank 18 you very much. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Next is who? Jody Carpenter 20 just spoke. Ms. Sumrall. 21 MS. SUMRALL: Thank you for having me. I'm 22 here today to express my concern for not going with the 23 management of the library but also management of the 24 City. After almost two months of citizens coming 25 forward to request changes being made and certain people 54 1 being held accountable, they decided to double-down on 2 their inaction. They showed no empathy to parents and 3 citizens that were affected. Instead Joe Herring 4 assured us the offensive material will continue and be 5 paraded at future Banned Book Weeks. 6 And Brenda Hughes compared these disgusting 7 books that we are fighting to shield our children from, 8 to the Bible. The librarian also compared my offense to 9 people being offended by Bill O'Reilly. 10 Pedophilia, rape, masturbation, and 11 sexualization of children are not the same as a 12 political figure. I have come to the conclusion that 13 there are two types of people in this fight. Those that 14 are okay with sexualizing children in a similar instance 15 by placing these books in their view throughout the 16 library, and those that are not. 17 Over the weekend, my son watched the movie 18 Little Rascals and said to me he wished he was closer to 19 the library so he could ride his bike there like they 20 do. I thought to myself, those days are over. A child 21 must be accompanied by an adult to watch them like a 22 hawk as they rifle through the American Library stacked 23 library. 24 I'm here to ask the Commissioners to help 25 resolve the situation by relocating this material and 55 1 revoking the ALA membership and influence and to hold 2 those involved accountable to protect the innocence of 3 our children and to the community that the library will 4 not be involved in promoting this material again. 5 Please note that I am not saying that I want 6 these books banned, which is what the opposing side 7 keeps accusing us of. Playboy magazine is not on the 8 shelf at HEB at the checkout. These books should also 9 have an age appropriate place. Thank you. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Aiden Chaney. 11 MR. CHANEY: Hello, council members. My 12 name is Aiden Chaney and I go to Tivy High School. So 13 truly I say to you, unless you turn and become like 14 children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 15 Matthew 18:3. Many people can take and use the 16 scripture to define the entirety of a generation or even 17 a people of self. 18 But first, to be a child is to have 19 innocence. I stand here before you members to protest 20 the work of evil appearing and to preserve the very 21 innocence of every child in Kerrville, Texas. As I 22 previously stated, when innocence is taken away from 23 such an early age the world will soon begin to fall. 24 These books being presented in the library 25 are nothing but putrid and horrifying ways to groom and 56 1 to corrupt the morals of this future generation. One 2 2017 study that surveyed 582 senior male students found 3 that 14.6 percent of those who used pornography more 4 than three times per week were reported to have 5 depression compared with 2.8 percent only looking at it 6 once a week. 7 The same study found that those who started 8 looking up and using pornographic content in elementary 9 school and junior middle school had depression rates 10 between 11 to 19 percent of -- yeah. So this is a 11 report done by Medical News Today. 12 You've had people come in and present some 13 things from these books that clearly depict child 14 pornography and you just brush it aside and we as people 15 will not back down from this issue. And many arguments 16 that I've seen from the opposing side is that these 17 librarians are amazing people. That doesn't excuse evil 18 from taking place. 19 And when you say something is nice and 20 completely disregard what is allowing to take place then 21 we have lost a sense of reality and who we were called 22 to be. You can either stand for righteousness or back 23 away to the shadows of darkness and be consumed like a 24 fire that will cause destruction and chaos. There is no 25 middle ground between what is right or wrong and we can 57 1 see that through our entire history. And through world 2 history we can look at various ways regimes have come 3 and taken over. 4 And for example, for Natzi Germany they 5 presumed to remove the sense of what was right and wrong 6 and brainwash an entirety of youth to their agenda and 7 while you're saying, wow, the regime burned books, they 8 burned books that had any sense of morals to them and 9 implemented new books with the new ideology. And anyone 10 who stood up against these ideals were shunned and 11 killed. Yet, so many people that stand up against 12 something that is very clearly wrong have to face people 13 that have been brainwashed by these books. 14 As someone who was molested in kindergarten 15 by another male student, for you to allow the placement 16 of these books and to say it's all right to do these 17 things to children is absolutely disgusting. Rape and 18 molestation is introduced somehow or another and it 19 doesn't make it right to openly give children ideas of 20 sexual content. 21 By a study of Covenant Eyes dot com they 22 express deeply is that only three percent of boys and 17 23 percent of girls have not seen pornography. This is 24 heartbreaking. And for you to be a part of that number 25 is something to reflect on. All it takes is one 58 1 generation to brainwash a population and convince them 2 that reality does not exist. That's a quote by Marie 3 Lu. 4 This is exactly what the American Library 5 Association is pushing for, and I highly encourage you, 6 council members, to cut any ties with them. Again, I 7 would like to express that children should not be 8 exposed to pornographic ideals. I've also heard many 9 people expressing that they hear these things already 10 and are exposed to this in school. That does not 11 justify to allow another route for them to find it and 12 have it available to them. Let children be children 13 without pushing an agenda. 14 You have the -- you all have an opportunity 15 to influence a generation and you have an obligation to 16 respond to the community's voice in this matter. I want 17 to leave you with one last sentence. Whoever causes 18 these little ones to believe a need to sin, it would be 19 better for him to have a great milk stone hung around 20 his neck than to cause these little ones to stumble. 21 Luke 17:2. Thank you for your time. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. That's all the people I 23 have on my list. 24 SHERIFF LEITHA: Judge, on Summerlin was 25 this -- Mary was asking me -- were you asking me Mary or 59 1 Cori Summerlin? 2 JUDGE KELLY: No. Cori Sumrall. 3 SHERIFF LEITHA: Oh, okay. 4 MRS. FERGUSON: We have another speaker who 5 would like to speak if we still have minutes. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 7 MS. HISEY: Good morning, gentlemen. My 8 name is Barbara Hisey. I'm in Precinct 2. And 9 something that has really been forgotten here and it -- 10 it just breaks my heart. The main thing that these 11 people are coming against is, wait a minute, we the 12 people -- we the people decide how we want our library 13 to be. 14 You know, I have a question about how our 15 librarian is chosen, if she would have values that are 16 totally in opposition to our community. Our community 17 votes very conservative. Things that go on in our 18 community are very conservative. That's not red or 19 blue; that's morals. And we need to enforce those 20 morals. 21 So the little thing where they said what is 22 determined whether it goes in was something about 23 community standards. Well, you know, I had -- and this 24 is an old phone book. Fifty churches in Kerr County. 25 And they do not approve of what the library is doing to 60 1 our kids. Now 50 churches? There's probably some in 2 those churches that would approve of what's being done. 3 But you know, if you just take 50 percent of those 50 4 churches, you have a large group of people on your 5 hands, and they want our community to be safe for our 6 children. 7 I used to take my kids -- I home schooled 8 them for 27 years. Used to have library day. We went 9 to the library. I went and worked on getting my 10 teaching collection and the kids went and they went 11 through books that -- of things that they were 12 interested in. I couldn't do that today. I could not 13 do that today because somebody says it's okay to have 14 these books on a shelf. 15 If you're going to have them in the library, 16 put them in an isolated place where the parent has to 17 get the book for the child. Not regulating what they 18 teach their kids, but just let us use our library. And 19 right now I would not take my kids in there. I would 20 not take my grandkids in there and let them search for 21 their books because of the standard that has been put 22 up. I -- I am so concerned about our little community. 23 I really -- and on both sides. We have conservative 24 people on both sides. 25 And I had somebody come up to me and say, 61 1 you know, I don't understand what has happened. We used 2 to be friends. And I said we're still friends. It's 3 just that this hex has been put in the mix. And you 4 know what, we can be red and blue but still be friends 5 and still have a mind. And still be sensible about 6 what's happening to our children. And you know, I've 7 asked a J.P. or somebody -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: That's -- that's 30 minutes. 9 I'm sorry. Thank you. Actually more. 10 Okay. I'm just going to call out the names 11 so people can be getting ready. First is going to be 12 Tom Moser. Then we've got Louise Vermillion, Ruth 13 Carlson, Sarah Lewis, Katy Kapper, and Susan Wolff. If 14 there's others? Commissioner Moser. 15 RETIRED COMMISSIONER MOSER: Thank you, 16 Judge. Tom Moser, 218 Yorktown Boulevard in Kerrville. 17 Judge, I agree with everybody that has spoken today, 18 okay, about pornography and that type of material in the 19 library. The agenda item is to discuss terminating the 20 Interlocal Agreement, okay. That's the agenda item. 21 I am against terminating that Interlocal 22 Agreement. And reason being is I'm going to use your 23 term, Judge, go up 30,000 feet. Let's look at what this 24 community has and the cooperation between County and 25 City. We have emergency medical services. Some members 62 1 of the Commissioners' Court years ago wanted to 2 eliminate that agreement. Have a County emergency 3 medical services. Okay. That's -- that's there. The 4 airport is a community service by joint. The jail. 5 Fire fighting and ETJ. Okay. An agreement between City 6 and County. The Animal Services and library. Those are 7 all things that benefit everybody in the County. Okay. 8 City and County. They have a common service between 9 those things. 10 Let me talk about the library. There was a 11 disagreement on how the County was going to pay for the 12 library and whether it was going to terminate that. I 13 think I led the activity to try to figure out how the 14 City and the County could have an interlocal agreement 15 where we shared services, Animal Services and the 16 library. That's been in effect a long time. 17 I want to encourage everybody, go back and 18 read the testimony when that was decided of people whose 19 children did not have access to the library. They 20 couldn't afford $60 for a library card before this 21 agreement was put in place. So all I'm saying is, don't 22 throw out the baby with the bath water. Keep the 23 library there. Figure out how to do this pornographic 24 thing. I agree with everybody here. Okay. Control 25 access to that type of equipment, like the lady just 63 1 spoke. Have parents where they can allow children into 2 a certain section. 3 I think the advisory board -- library 4 advisory board can do that. I was on that board for a 5 long time. The City listens to that. I think there's 6 an issue -- I think there are things that -- that are 7 important to understand. A library is an informational 8 resource center. 9 If children with library cards have trouble 10 with algebra, okay, forget the pornographic issues for a 11 second. They have trouble with algebra, they can get 12 online to a certified person to help them with their 13 algebra problems. So if you think about eliminating 14 this interlocal agreement, it's a lot more than about 15 pornographic material. It's about history. It's about 16 algebra. It's about trigonometry. It's about all those 17 things the children need to have free access to -- and 18 there's a lot of children in this County that can't 19 afford to pay for a library card. 20 So my -- my encouragement is keep the 21 library interlocal agreement in place. If you have to 22 terminate it across the -- an issue, so be it. But 23 please don't forget about all the other things and the 24 benefit to everybody in the County to have a common 25 service. Thank you. 64 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And Tom, I agree with 2 you. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Louise Vermillion. 4 MS. VERMILLION: Hello. 5 JUDGE KELLY: You may proceed, Miss 6 Vermillion. 7 MS. VERMILLION: Hi. I'm Louise Vermillion. 8 I live at 1100 Fifth Street in Kerrville. I'm a retired 9 Texas teacher, speech language pathologist and 10 educational diagnostician. I'm also a wife, a mother 11 and a grandmother. In fact, I'm a brand new 12 grandmother. And he just turned three months old and 13 we're very happy. I'd like to speak a little about 14 parent responsibility. My children were allowed to go 15 to the library. If they took out something I didn't 16 approve of, it got returned. 17 My children were not allowed to go to 18 R-rated movies before I determined they were old enough 19 to go there. But let me tell you that as an educational 20 diagnostician, one of the places I worked was at the 21 Bill Clayton Detention Center, which was a maximum 22 security facility for male juvenile offenders between 11 23 and 15 years of age. Children. Many of them were 24 children who had been sexually assaulted and who 25 sexually assaulted other children. And the one thing I 65 1 can guarantee you is that none of these children had 2 ever set foot in a library. And maybe if they had 3 things would have been different. 4 I don't believe that our library here in 5 Kerrville is grooming children to be sexually active or 6 to change their identities or anything like that. I 7 think the library is there to encourage children to 8 read, to explore their minds, to build on what they 9 learn in school. The library is valuable. Please don't 10 deny it to any child. That's it. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Next is Ruth 12 Carlson. 13 MS. CARLSON: Hello. My name's Ruth 14 Carlson. I'm in Precinct 1. I came to talk about the 15 books in the library. My perspective is that there's a 16 lot of people talking about the library grooming people 17 and all that kind of stuff, but the list of books 18 they've got is really excessive, including "I Am Jazz." 19 I was listening to a lady talk about it earlier. And 20 I've read that with my daughter. And I don't find that 21 objectionable. I find that as a way to build empathy 22 for people that are different than you are. Because 23 there's a lot of bullying in schools. We take out all 24 the books about people that are different than what 25 our -- we think our children are because not all of our 66 1 children are not gender developed at this age. Like my 2 child is a first grader. 3 When they go through school, they don't know 4 anything else. And when someone identifies as 5 different, they become a target. There was a gentleman 6 from high school here that was talking about suicides 7 and depression. Well, one of the groups he didn't 8 mention was the LGBTQ children that have a higher rate 9 of suicide than average children, and part of that is 10 bullying. 11 And when we talked about a gentleman a 12 couple ago, said that the County is going to lose access 13 to the library if you pull this agreement, and that's a 14 big deal because they fought for years for this. And I 15 know a lot of people from the cities around that use the 16 library regularly. Both for themselves and for their 17 kids. There's a lot of really good programs there and 18 they have an amazing kid section to pull books out of. 19 I just want the choice to screen for my 20 daughter. I don't want someone to screen it for me. So 21 if people want to pull out books about boys wearing 22 dresses because that makes them uncomfortable, then I no 23 longer have access to that book. This is a public 24 library. It's for the whole community. And so I think 25 everyone should have access to the books. And parents 67 1 could get to decide what's appropriate for their kids. 2 Thank you. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Sarah Lewis. 4 MS. LEWIS: Sarah Lewis. Precinct 1. I'm 5 here to ask that you not terminate the Interlocal 6 Agreement. My understanding from City staff and various 7 sources is that if you do, then the City of Kerrville 8 citizens such as myself would be paying twice for a 9 service that we don't have access to and I just don't 10 appreciate that. And, you know, including the current 11 taxes for Animal Services and building a new facility. 12 Furthermore, I'm all for protecting kids. I 13 have two of my own. And it feels like sexualizing 14 children is this new exciting term but that's not what 15 the library is doing. Just because it has these 16 materials available for, you know, older young adults 17 and adults, it doesn't mean it's for children. This is 18 not being read at story time. It's not -- you know, 19 it's not -- it's not available to the kids except for 20 this one instance when it was in a cage. So that's what 21 I have to say. Thank you. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Katy Kapper. 23 MS. KAPPER: My name is Katy Kapper. I live 24 in Kerrville. I also own property in the County. I 25 paid $8,500 in taxes this year and I would expect you as 68 1 my representative to be careful with my money. I am a 2 dedicated library goer, and if I lived in the County and 3 was deprived of my chance to go to the library, I would 4 be very, very angry. 3500 people would be deprived of 5 the library if you cancel this agreement. And I don't 6 think this is going to accomplish what this whole 7 hearing has been about. 8 I am against pornography, sexualization of 9 children, grooming, all that stuff. But I understood 10 that if the agreement's canceled, the City will lose 11 input into the operation of the animal shelter, and you 12 will lose the opportunity to have some control over the 13 library. So I think that's pointless. 14 I have been -- I thought it was a great 15 cooperative agreement that we've got these two things 16 going on and it will not accomplish anything towards the 17 elimination of pornography or child abuse to cancel the 18 agreement with the library. I appreciate everybody 19 being very concerned about children, I have not seen a 20 single parent come forward and say their child was 21 damaged by something that they saw in the library. I 22 spend a lot of time in there. Parents are there. It's 23 the parent's responsibility to make sure that their 24 children are only looking at appropriate stuff. It's 25 only been a week -- or less than a week since the City 69 1 Council ordered the advisory board to review their 2 procedures. I don't think this is an emergency. I 3 think this is something that you can give the City a 4 chance to take care of. 5 And I know everybody's all hysterical 6 because something can happen to a child. Well, things 7 happen to a child all the time but most of them don't 8 happen in the library. So I urge you to think about the 9 fact that as a taxpayer, I would like the people that 10 live in the County to be able to use the library and you 11 can continue to have input into how that operation is 12 handled. Thank you very much. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Ms. Kapper. Susan 14 Wolff. 15 MS. WOLFF: Hi. I'm Susan Wolff. I live on 16 Wharton Road in the county. I spoke at the last meeting 17 and I sent letters to each of the Commissioners, but I'm 18 not sure if you've read them, where I clearly expressed 19 my opinion in those letters but I'll reiterate them 20 here. 21 I am in favor of continuing the agreement 22 with the City and the library. I support the 23 librarians, as they defend against censorship and 24 protect our rights. It is a public library, and I would 25 not expect every book in that library to meet with my 70 1 individual taste and nor should the other people in this 2 community expect every single book to meet with their 3 individual taste. We have the right to not check out 4 things that we don't agree with. We have the right not 5 to read things we don't agree with. However, if we 6 remove those books, I will have lost my right to pick 7 and choose what I want to read from the library and what 8 my child has the ability to check out and what she has 9 the ability to read. 10 And I don't believe that other people making 11 those decisions for my child, my neighbors make the 12 decision for their children, I think that it should be 13 the librarian's decision to select the books for the 14 library. I think it's the librarian that needs to 15 curate that list. I've always found the library 16 personnel to be helpful and courteous and respectful and 17 they've always made the library a welcoming place. I 18 hope you will support the librarians as they defend 19 against censorship and I hope you will continue the 20 agreement with the City. Thank you. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Those are all the 22 people that had signed up to speak that -- so with 23 that -- 24 MR. SCHULENBERG: No. I did. Schulenberg. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: He was here. He was 71 1 late. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, he's been here a 3 long time. He just didn't -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Schulenberg? 5 MR. SCHULENBERG: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You may speak. You're 7 the last one. 8 MR. SCHULENBERG: My name's Ted Schulenberg. 9 I've lived in Kerr County for 27 years. The library 10 made a mistake. They had been doing this for years and 11 taking what was called banned books and putting them out 12 so that people could see what had been banned. And 13 that's kind of a -- banning is not really the term, but 14 it's -- but some people felt it was most appropriate to 15 be -- not to be viewed by too many people. But they put 16 them in the wrong place. 17 And the City or the library said okay, we 18 won't put those out there anymore and, as a matter of 19 fact, next year the only thing we'll put out is covers 20 of the books. So there should be no major issue with 21 respect to what kids see. And if you bring your child 22 in there, they're not going to look at that shelf at 23 that book table anyway. They're going to make a bee 24 line for the children's table and that'll be the end of 25 it. And they certainly can't check out any books. What 72 1 they read at home will depend on what their parents come 2 up with. 3 In addition to the informal banning, there 4 was a Texas Congressman that came out with a real long 5 list of about 850 books that he don't think were 6 appropriate for people to look at. And it included good 7 literature. It also included books about the fact that 8 babies don't come from storks and so he had to have a 9 little bit of material like that in some of those 10 listings. 11 The book -- the library puts out books that 12 have been subject to banning by the ALA -- or not by the 13 ALA but by some organizations. The A -- they do not 14 belong to the ALA. The library doesn't belong to it. 15 They are affiliated with it but they don't belong to it. 16 They don't take any orders from it, but they do get the 17 benefits of some advice which they may or may not take. 18 But citing all these things that you don't 19 like about the ALA have no reflection on the library. 20 They are two different, separate entities. They're not 21 related and they're not co-members. 22 Finally, I'm -- I've written a letter to the 23 editor on this. And I wrote it on Saturday, and I don't 24 know if it'll get published or not. But when I found 25 out that you were going to consider separating ways with 73 1 the County or with the City, I -- on the library, I 2 thought that's going overboard. And I did say that 3 seven or eight years ago as -- as Tom Moser said, the 4 City came together and had a working arrangement with 5 the County. It was good for the City, it was good for 6 the County, good for the people in the County, good for 7 the library, good for the library and good for animal 8 control. And they've been getting along fine ever 9 since. 10 And it seems to me that even considering a 11 return of those dark acrimonious pre-agreement days 12 isn't serving the best interest of anybody. Thank you. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 14 MR. ESPENLAUB: Your Honor, since I didn't 15 use my whole three minutes, would you allow my wife to 16 speak? 17 JUDGE KELLY: No. We've had enough. 18 MR. ESPENLAUB: Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: I think we understand the 20 issue. And I -- and it's my opportunity to speak. The 21 other Commissioners weighed in before we listened to the 22 public, I wanted to listen to the public before I shared 23 my comments. 24 I think this entire issue has been 25 needlessly politicized. We have a simple contract with 74 1 the City. We do business with the City. We live in the 2 community. We have to work together. 3 Now, you talk about these emergency 4 services. We pay $1.385 million to the City to provide 5 that service out in the county. That contract is coming 6 up for renewal. I need to be able to work with the City 7 to negotiate a contract to protect the people that live 8 out in the county. 9 And the last thing I need is an unnecessary 10 termination of an agreement. Because you, the public, 11 mistakenly think that we have input into how they run 12 that library. Well, let me tell you, we do not. We 13 have an agreement. We have a member that sits on that 14 advisory board, and you don't tell them how to run the 15 library, do you? 16 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: No. 17 JUDGE KELLY: That's why when this thing 18 first came up I wanted to go sit down with the Mayor and 19 I wanted to sit down with Ms. Bergotti, and I did. And 20 I found out that yes, I agree with what Mr. Schulenberg 21 said. I think they made a mistake. This could have 22 been handled a whole lot better. And I was assured that 23 they were going to take these remedial actions. 24 And from what little I know, I think they've 25 taken some of them, if not all of them, and they're 75 1 making more that need to be put in place, which is what 2 the Mayor and the librarian assured me they were in the 3 process of doing with the advisory board. 4 So here we sit, debating child pornography. 5 When we've got a contract. The City can't tell us how 6 to run Animal Services, and they don't. And there's 7 those of you in the audience that know we do work with 8 the City, but they don't tell us how to do that. We've 9 got KPA helping us do that. And we've built a very good 10 coalition and partnership to get this done, which is 11 what we need to do with the City on the library. 12 The City has the exclusive control of the 13 library. Commissioner Moser knows this. You can sit 14 there and talk to him and you can make recommendations 15 to him, but we have no control. 16 So all of you have come and presented your 17 impassioned arguments to us to terminate this contract 18 with the City to punish them. Right? So that they'll 19 do what you want them to do. They'll get rid of the 20 ALA. 21 Well, what's the remedy you want? We're 22 trying to run a local government and we've got to work 23 with the fellow local government here. So I think we're 24 talking -- some of the phrases that I heard, throwing 25 the baby out with the bath water, overboard, I think 76 1 they're true. I don't like what's happening over at the 2 library. I definitely don't like anything to do with 3 child pornography or grooming in any way, shape or form. 4 I want to run a County government. And I know my peers 5 may want to go ahead and terminate this contract, but 6 it's a symbolic act that accomplishes nothing. It 7 accomplishes nothing. 8 At least let us continue to work together to 9 try to address these problems rather than just flipping 10 off the City and saying we don't want to work with you 11 anymore. We can't get away with that. The public knows 12 that. We've still gotta work with them. We've got lots 13 of things we do together. 14 And I go back to the lady who talked about 15 the urgency of this. I don't know what the immediacy is 16 and we have to do that right now other than to pat 17 ourselves on the back and feel good that we've done 18 something. I don't know. I'm here and try to run this 19 local government with the help of this Court. And we -- 20 I think we do a pretty good job. All things considered. 21 But I think it's premature to terminate this contract. 22 Especially if we don't even have the right one in place. 23 I think we ought to try to see what we can put together. 24 So I would just caution that let's take our 25 time and do this the right way and not rush into it. 77 1 And for those of you that think that we can somehow 2 punish the City for their wrongdoing, I don't think this 3 punishes anybody but all of us. Both sides. That's 4 what I think. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't want to punish 6 the City. I don't want to subsidize this -- this stuff 7 that's targeting kids. I asked them at their City 8 Council meeting to please separate it away from the 9 children's stuff and everything that I said to them has 10 fallen on deaf ears. I've spoken with the Mayor 11 privately. Nothing's changed. So I don't think that -- 12 I mean my vote is that we don't subsidize that. And 13 it's not the issue of punishing the City but -- or 14 anybody else. I don't want to subsidize it. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. I hear you. 16 But to subsidize it -- before we entered into the 17 agreement with them we were providing Animal Services, 18 right? 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And this won't change 20 things a lot. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And we didn't have -- our -- 22 our County residents didn't have access to the library. 23 So Commissioner Moser sat down and went to the -- I 24 think it was Mayor White back then? 25 COMMISSIONER MOSER: It was. 78 1 JUDGE KELLY: And hammered out this 2 agreement where we don't spend any money. We don't give 3 them anything. Maybe a little grief. If we want to 4 send Beck over there or -- teasing you. But we're 5 not -- we're not subsidizing anything. We're continuing 6 to provide Animal Services. 7 And quite frankly, I think those people that 8 lived in the City that are looking at the query, are you 9 going to be able to take advantage of this new animal 10 shelter that we're going to build? I think was switch 11 and bait is what I heard somebody put it, that we -- 12 we've effectively trotted a bond proposition out there, 13 Prop C, to build this animal shelter and it passed. 14 Okay. 15 Now, the two that didn't pass, I know there 16 are a lot of people out there in the City as well as the 17 County that are mad at this Court over this issue, and 18 so they voted against the bond issue in most parts. And 19 we took a drumming on that. 20 So what I'm looking at here, we're not 21 subsidizing anything. We're providing animal services 22 and we do it -- we do it in conjunction with Kerrville 23 Pets Alive and -- and volunteers that come out and help 24 and we all realize that this is something that we're 25 going to continue to do. 79 1 From my point of view, I've got to tell you, 2 if we terminate that contract, I'm not going to be happy 3 if we're not using that facility for animals that are 4 picked up in the City. Because that was the unspoken 5 contract that we had with the people. That we're 6 providing the animal service to the County countywide. 7 And now we've got authority to go ahead and build that 8 facility. I would -- if I lived in the City, I would be 9 wanting to get some -- to get some clarification on 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What you're saying is 12 not accurate in a couple areas. There are eight 13 paragraphs in this agreement that say the County shall. 14 And there are things that we wouldn't do otherwise. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's eight paragraphs 17 of it. There's one sentence about the library. The 18 City shall maintain and be solely responsible for the 19 ownership, control, and management of the library. It 20 is not an equal agreement. We do eight paragraphs of 21 things in addition to the City. That is what is the 22 issue. And this has been an issue that Commissioner 23 Harris brought up way before this ever happened. Is not 24 an equal agreement. And it needs to be renegotiated and 25 it's been said that for the last year. 80 1 When I talked -- when I met with the City 2 Manager in August, and you're aware of this going on, it 3 was decided that there is no way that we could get a new 4 agreement done during the month of September with our 5 budget stuff. So we did a one-year extension knowing 6 that it had to be renegotiated. That's all we're doing 7 right here. 8 JUDGE KELLY: I would like to take the time 9 to do that. That's all -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We are. We're giving 11 them 120 days. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: When Commissioner Letz 13 brought this up September I guess, this -- it was for a 14 two-year extension. And I think everybody knows, I've 15 stated it over and over again, that I didn't think it 16 was an equitable agreement for the County and -- and the 17 City for what we give and what they give. And so we 18 backed it up to a one-year agreement. 19 I hope to -- I hope to -- I wanted to 20 renegotiate maybe next June or if I guess when both 21 sides does their budget and so we -- we extended it a 22 year. And then about -- I don't know, a couple weeks 23 later we had Banned Book Week and everything hit the 24 fan. And I thought well, good grief, we didn't like it 25 to begin with, now look what's happening. And look how 81 1 long -- how much time has gone by. And even with an 2 agenda item, last Tuesday, it fell on deaf ears. 3 We're not asking to blow everything up. Do 4 away with the American Library Association and their 5 agenda. That's all we ask. We want a library like most 6 all of us grew up in. Going into a safe environment. 7 You know, if I would have brought home this bookmark 8 with me when I was a kid, oh my gosh, my dad would 9 probably be going to the pen. And this is for a kid to 10 take home, a colorful bookmark with the top ten 11 challenge books, not banned books, that they could 12 research, download on their own. 13 Many of these are found in the young adults 14 is 12 and older. That's what the lady that read one of 15 those excerpts in City Council and got the Police Chief 16 on her about. So that's my point. 17 Commissioner Letz brought up something 18 earlier. My motion was to give them a 90-day notice of 19 termination of this agreement. Commissioner Letz 20 brought up holidays and everything. I'm willing to 21 amend my motion, if Commissioner Belew agrees, to 120 22 days as noticed. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: (Raises hand.) 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Now, it wouldn't -- it 25 wouldn't be hard to make this go away. So that's may 82 1 motion. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Are you -- you accept his 4 amendment? 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 7 Those in favor of terminating the Interlocal Agreement 8 with the City regarding the library and Animal Services, 9 raise your hand. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's terminated 11 effective in 120 days. 12 JUDGE KELLY: In 120 days. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 14 (Commissioners Belew, Letz and Harris 15 raising hands.) 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's three. And those 17 opposed raise your hand. 18 (Judge Kelly and Commissioner Gipson raising 19 hands.) 20 JUDGE KELLY: Three-two vote. All we can do 21 is tell the City. That's the library management issue 22 over there. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll bet they know 24 already. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have 120 days to 83 1 renegotiate an agreement. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We have a lot of timed 3 items and we are very, very far behind. Let's take a 4 five minute break and come back here at 11:00 o'clock 5 and we'll start with the timed items. 6 (Recess.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Court will come back to 8 order. For those of you that missed this morning's 9 activities, we are very behind on our agenda, and so 10 items 1.2 through 1.9 will be deferred because they're 11 not specifically timed items. So if you're here on one 12 of those, 1.2 through 1.9, those are deferred until we 13 can come back and get rid of these timed items. So 14 we're going to start with 10 o'clock items. 15 Going to item 1.10 consider, discuss and 16 take appropriate action regarding clarification on the 17 timing and effectiveness of the new engineering fees and 18 new subdivision regulations with regards to the Twin 19 Creek Subdivision development. Jared Martin. 20 MR. MARTIN: Good morning, gentlemen. 21 Thanks for letting me speak. I'm Jared Martin with 22 Wellborn Engineering & Surveying. I represent Earl 23 Sullivan on this project. I'll try to be brief. 24 I trust y'all probably read the letter. 25 Really what we're looking at here is a development that 84 1 started earlier this year. Went through a couple of 2 concept plan meetings. Brought a preliminary plat to 3 this Court to get you all aware of what we're doing. 4 During that time some concerns were raised about Eagle 5 Ridge Road. 6 And the developer has gone through some 7 meetings with Mr. Beck Gipson and County Engineer to 8 kind of mitigate those concerns and see what could be 9 done. Got with traffic engineer to do a study and see 10 what things could be done to help that. 11 And for those we just wanted to let 12 everybody know that those concerns have fallen on deaf 13 ears and we're trying to make an effort to mitigate 14 those concerns. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Let me just kind of stop you 16 there. I've been briefed on what this issue is. So I 17 have a background for it. I don't know if the rest of 18 the Commissioners understand the problem that we've got. 19 And it has to do with we adopted -- we're trying to 20 adopt new subdivision rules that will be effective 21 January 1. 22 And we also went back and revised our fee 23 schedule to have the fee schedule -- have an updated fee 24 schedule so that we're charging the appropriate fees. 25 We updated that and that was effective for October '22 85 1 or something? 2 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: October 1st. 3 JUDGE KELLY: October first. And one of the 4 things that under the old rules, we did have -- still 5 had provisions for preliminary plats, even though the 6 legislature did away with preliminary plats. And so 7 some of the original developers that were working on 8 your projects before, we changed the fee schedule, and 9 before we -- we came up with the proposed new 10 subdivision rules and regulations, trying to figure out 11 where are you in this process -- 12 MR. MARTIN: Right. 13 JUDGE KELLY: -- and what fees are you going 14 to have to pay under the new fee schedule rather than 15 that we're not in the old fee schedule. And I've talked 16 to Chuck Kimbrough about it. 17 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: I have too. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And he recognized it. And the 19 advice of our counsel is that we don't make the plat 20 fees effective until January 1. So we just -- we just 21 back off on that and not apply those fees until the new 22 rules go into effect. Nobody's left in the lurch. 23 MR. MARTIN: Sure. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Because we had to -- we have 25 included in these proposed subdivision rules a 86 1 predevelopment platting discussion. That's voluntary. 2 And if developers and their engineers want to sit down 3 and work with us, which we have done in the past, like 4 these preliminary plats like the ones that you all did, 5 then we'll have a specific procedure outlined at that 6 time and the fees will tie directly to the procedures. 7 But we're kind of in no man's land right 8 now, transitioning to January 1, and I think what you 9 need is assurance that we're not going to charge you 10 that -- that fee that would have been charged under this 11 new schedule. 12 MR. MARTIN: And that's part of it. The 13 other are the new subdivision regs and what might be -- 14 what -- what regulations are going to be new to us in 15 this project. The developer desires to file the final 16 plat after we're constructed. The lot lines need to be 17 shifted, some minor tweaks that would cause an amending 18 plat to come back to the court at the time -- near the 19 end of construction as opposed to putting up the bond 20 and letter of credit now, just to simply beat a 21 timeline. 22 So we've got approved construction 23 documents. We've had a construction pre-con meeting. 24 And they've broke ground out there as well. So our hope 25 is at this point we're vested to the point where new 87 1 regs wouldn't be brought onto us after -- just by simply 2 not getting it in before the end of the year. 3 And some of the regs that -- some of the new 4 regs that we're seeing in the proposed subdivision regs 5 are stuff that we would have looked at at the 6 development further in the beginning to see if the 7 project was even viable. So to bring those up now is 8 just kind of where our concern is. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and we've talked with 10 counsel and we've talked with our engineer, Charlie, and 11 I think we're in a good position to be able to make that 12 transition period without any undue imposition on you. 13 But the new -- the new rules will go into effect 14 January 1, once we vote on them next week. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the question is, 16 what Jared's trying to get to is that his development, 17 and any large ones that are working right now, they're 18 already doing things well on the way, but they're not 19 going to have -- they would rather not have to do a 20 final plat and then come back and do another revision of 21 plat right after that. 22 And -- and I think to me the way we can 23 solve that -- and there's only a couple that fall in 24 this category. To me, you know, we stay with the policy 25 that we had up that, you know, we have to have materials 88 1 in by January 1, and we can make an exception for a 2 couple of the subdivisions that are well on their way, 3 under construction already under kind of our old rules 4 and -- but the -- because I mean -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: It's just a quasi 6 grandfathering. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it is. Yeah. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to 10 be very specific as to which ones. And I think, you 11 know, Charlie can probably come up with which 12 subdivisions are far enough along at that point that we 13 can say, okay, this subdivision -- subdivision A, B, 14 and C are under the old rules, everything else, you 15 know, if you didn't have your final plat approved prior 16 to January 1. 17 JUDGE KELLY: And the quick fix that Chuck 18 Kimbrough, our counsel, said is if we just take and 19 don't apply those fees until January 1, that temporarily 20 solves the problem for y'all. And then we get to look 21 at each one of these one at a time to see how we need to 22 finish them up. 23 MR. MARTIN: Right. And our -- and our 24 biggest concern is really the new regs. We don't want 25 to be halfway through construction and now the new regs 89 1 say this and we come in for final plat six, eight months 2 from now. Did y'all do this X, Y, and Z as a part of 3 the new regs? And our answer would be no because -- 4 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Part of the extent of 5 their decision that -- whether to go with the new regs 6 or old regs depending on these fees. So I move that we 7 adjust our fee schedule to be effective September -- 8 January 1st, 2023. That solves part of it. Part of it. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Second. 10 MR. MARTIN: Right. 11 JUDGE KELLY: So we got a motion and a 12 second. Is there any discussion? 13 MR. MARTIN: And I do have a two-part ask, 14 if you will, here. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. MARTIN: Fees and subdivision regs. You 17 know, we're trying to find relief. This is -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is about one. 19 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. Okay. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So any other discussion? 21 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 22 The other part of it is -- and we have 23 always operated under, when you come and file your plat 24 application, then you got your place in line to be -- to 25 have those rules in effect at that time, governing your 90 1 subdivision until conclusion, right? 2 MR. MARTIN: Well, that's the final plat 3 application, am I right? 4 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. But that's -- we used to 5 have preliminary plats. Because we don't have that 6 now -- 7 MR. MARTIN: Exactly. 8 JUDGE KELLY: -- we're -- I mean so -- 9 MR. MARTIN: A few concept plans, a 10 prelim -- a voluntary preliminary plat, construction 11 document review and approval, pre-construction meeting. 12 I mean, we have these other milestones that -- that 13 we've accomplished, but now -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and we appreciate y'all 15 doing that. And we don't want to punish you because you 16 did what we asked you to do, it's just not right. And 17 so -- and I just go on subdivision by subdivision basis. 18 On Twin Creeks, we can look at this and I've talked to 19 Charlie, I've talked to the lawyer. I think we've all 20 heard it. 21 For your subdivision, I'm fine hearing that 22 you're under the old rules. And we will -- and even if 23 you don't get your final plat application filed by the 24 end of this year. Because there's been detrimental 25 lines upon these rules and we recognize that. And we 91 1 want to accommodate you. 2 MR. MARTIN: Thank you. Thank you very 3 much. 4 MR. HASTINGS: Judge, if -- if you will, 5 maybe the thing to do is to direct me to come to the 6 November 28th meeting, our next meeting, with a list of 7 all the subdivisions so that you can explicitly say 8 these subdivisions are subject to the rules that are in 9 effect as of 2022. And that they -- because otherwise, 10 someone's going to come in after January 1, they'll turn 11 in a -- 12 MR. MARTIN: I'm agreeing with that, 13 Charlie, but -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: Is that what we're asking 15 for? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. But I -- I changed the 17 date from the November 28th meeting to the first meeting 18 in -- in December because we -- we've got another very, 19 very busy meeting on the 28th. 20 MR. HASTINGS: Well, that's fine. I -- I 21 can bring it to the first one then. That would give us 22 a little bit of time to flip over our time period. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it sounds like what 24 you're asking, Charlie, is criteria in establishing 25 whether or not they qualify? 92 1 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Well, I -- 3 MR. HASTINGS: No, I just -- I just want an 4 explicit list to approve. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So what -- would it be 6 a financial -- or what would you be looking at? 7 JUDGE KELLY: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are you asking what we 9 should look at? 10 JUDGE KELLY: I think what Jared's looking 11 for from us is that -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm not talking about 13 him anymore, I'm talking about Charlie's list. 14 MR. HASTINGS: I think what we're looking 15 for is what constitutes a -- that they're far enough 16 with the middle that they should be -- that the -- 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, the County 18 Attorney has her eyebrows up. So it tells me I've asked 19 too much. So we'll have that for another agenda item. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: I think -- yes. And I think 21 that I can get with Charlie and we can draft some 22 language so that I can give y'all some legal advise with 23 Chuck and y'all can give Charlie direction at another 24 meeting. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And what we're looking at here 93 1 is these are just a couple of subdivisions that are 2 substantially complete, to use an old construction term. 3 They're substantially complete. They're not quite 4 there. And we need to know which ones we're going to 5 finish up under the old rules and which ones are going 6 to be the first ones that we apply the new rules to. 7 That's what we're trying to transition through these 8 next two months. 9 And so I move that Twin Creek Subdivision be 10 governed by the old rules upon their final plat 11 submission. 12 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE KELLY: You okay? 15 MR. MARTIN: Final plat submission. Meaning 16 anytime? 17 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. That's what I'm saying. 18 MR. MARTIN: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're good. You're 20 good. 21 MR. HASTINGS: What you hear him saying is 22 you're not going to see that final plat submission until 23 probably May. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I'm fine with that. 25 MR. MARTIN: Right. Wonderful. Thank you. 94 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If you go to the replay 2 tape you were safe. That's what it means. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Don would like to add a few 4 more to that list. That's why he's standing here. 5 MR. DON VOELKEL: Well, I'm really in the 6 same position as Jared is on his on a couple out at 7 Apache Trace and Yellow Rose Estate. 8 JUDGE KELLY: We understand that. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, you're not on 10 the agenda. 11 MR. DON VOELKEL: I know, I understand. But 12 I just wanted to make sure that y'all give him the right 13 to let other people do -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: Sounds like I'm supposed to 15 bring it back the first meeting in December. 16 MR. DON VOELKEL: Is that right? Thank you 17 all. 18 JUDGE KELLY: We understand the transition. 19 MR. DON VOELKEL: Don Voelkel. Kerrville, 20 Texas. 21 MRS. DOWDY: And could you restate the 22 motion? I got final plat submission under old rules. 23 But are you talking about fees or the actual 24 regulations? 25 JUDGE KELLY: The fees -- we've already done 95 1 the -- it was fees don't go into effect until January. 2 MRS. DOWDY: Okay. But on this particular 3 plat? 4 JUDGE KELLY: So on the -- this plat, it's 5 as though he had filed his final plat application before 6 the new rules go into effect. Because he's got the 7 right to do that. He can run in there right now and 8 file that final plat and we have to deal with it within 9 30 days. But we don't want pandemonium in the 10 engineer's office. We don't want pandemonium in -- in 11 the developer's office. So we're just going to go ahead 12 and accommodate this one substantially complete and 13 we're going to -- we're going to -- the old rules will 14 apply to it through completion. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And others will come along. 17 We understand that. 18 MR. HASTINGS: Yeah, I guess. The point I 19 think that you're trying to make on there is that the 20 old rules -- these say that there's engineering fees 21 that will be paid, and we've revised that -- we've made 22 them effective January 1 to coincide with the new 23 regulation now, as of today. 24 So it's my understanding that even if he 25 does bring it in May of next year, he also does not have 96 1 to pay those engineering fees, is my understanding. 2 MRS. DOWDY: Uh-huh. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Because I think -- I know 4 that was the intent of all of that. But I think that's 5 the technicality is that the old rules reference 6 engineering fees, but we didn't have a schedule. The 7 schedule is not going to be effective until January 1. 8 And that's when the new regulations are effective also. 9 So if you get in under the wire, you know, you're under 10 the wire. You don't pay those fees. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: There's a transition 12 period. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Yeah. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 15 in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 16 Next item is 1.11 which is a public hearing 17 for revision of plat for Kerrville Country Estates, 18 Section 2, Lot 26. I'm convening a public meeting. Is 19 there anybody that would like to address the court on 20 the revision of plat for Kerrville Country Estates 21 Section 2, Lot 26? 22 There being no one, I'm going to adjourn the 23 public meeting and we'll move on to Item 1.12, which is 24 a public hearing for revision of plat for Soledad 25 Springs Estates, Lot 15. A public meeting is now on. 97 1 The meeting is now open for those who want 2 to appear for Soledad Springs Estates, Lot 15. There 3 being no one, we'll go ahead and adjourn the meeting and 4 move on to the next agenda item, which is 1.13 public 5 hearing for a proposed cancellation of Tract 11, 57.16 6 acres of the Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate 7 Subdivision. Mr. Hastings. 8 MR. HASTINGS: No, this is a public meeting. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Anybody here want to appear on 10 behalf of that agenda item? There being no one, we'll 11 go ahead and adjourn. 12 And let's move down to what was 1.15, which 13 is to consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 14 approve a cancellation of Tract 11, 57.16 acres of 15 Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate Subdivision. Mr. 16 Hastings. 17 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. In your 18 packet is a letter from Voelkel Land Surveying 19 requesting the Court cancel Tract 11, 57.16 acres, out 20 of the Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate Subdivision, 21 Volume 4, Page 27. 22 Their client, High Point Land Investments, 23 LLC, have purchased Tract 11 and wish to subdivide it 24 into a 3-lot subdivision to be known as Hidden Draw 25 Ranch Subdivision with access from FM 479. We just held 98 1 a public hearing, nobody spoke. 2 The County Engineer requests the Court 3 approve the cancellation of Tract 11, 57.16 acres, of 4 the Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate Subdivision, 5 Volume 4, Page 27, Precinct 4. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 7 approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 10 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 11 I'm going to go back up to 1.14, which is 12 consider, discuss and take appropriate action for the 13 Court to approve a final plat for the Avalos 14 Subdivision. Mr. Hastings. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. The three 16 tracts, totalling 13.673 acres, off of Allerkamp Road 17 were previously divided out of a large tract without 18 platting. This proposed subdivision will correct 19 matters by platting into two lots and dedicating 20 right-of-way on Allerkamp Road. Lot 1 will be 5.671 21 acres, and Lot 2 will be 8.002 acres. Access will be 22 from an existing access easement. And Lot 1 is 23 partially in the floodplain and must meet requirements 24 for development in the floodplain. 25 We just held a public hearing for this a few 99 1 moments ago and -- no. No, there wasn't a public 2 hearing for this. I apologize. 3 County Engineer requests the Court approve a 4 final plat for Avalos Subdivision, Precinct 3. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the final plat for the Avalos Subdivision. Any 9 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 10 Moving down to Item 1.16 consider, discuss 11 and take appropriate action to go out for annual bids 12 for road materials. Ms. Hoffer. 13 MS. HOFFER: We're asking the Court to give 14 authorization for us to go out for our annual bids for 15 road materials. Once we put out the bids, we will come 16 back to the Court to open the bids on December 12th, 17 2022 at 10:05 and also award the bids in Court at that 18 time. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 22 approve going out for annual bids for road material for 23 Road & Bridge. Any discussion? Those in favor raise 24 your hand. Unanimous. 25 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 100 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And that was a 10:05 2 timed item, and 17, 18, and 19 are not timed, so I have 3 to skip over those for the time being and we'll move 4 down to Item 1.20, a 10:30 timed item. We are well past 5 10:30. I apologize. That's to consider, discuss and 6 take appropriate action to accept quarterly report from 7 the Veteran Advisory Council. 8 MR. NOLLER: Good morning. Gary Noller, 140 9 Ray Drive in Center Point, representing the Veterans 10 Service Advisory Committee. This is our quarterly 11 report. I had Jenna pass out a piece of paper to you. 12 It's got a few little quick facts on it. She did send 13 us her quarterly performance report ending the quarter 14 September 30th. She is, again, doing a superb job in 15 helping veterans and survivors' dependents on obtaining 16 benefits. And we appreciate her very much. And I know 17 the veterans that use her appreciate her very much. 18 I did put out some facts there on members, 19 dollar numbers, because everybody seems to like dollar 20 numbers. But I said if you get too caught up in dollar 21 numbers you're kind of missing everything here because 22 there's a lot of stuff that goes on that doesn't have a 23 financial value but is a huge value to the veterans. 24 So I went back to the last four quarters or 25 12 months ending September 30th and took a look at 101 1 retroactive pay. Retroactive pay is a lump sum that's 2 paid to a veteran to catch them up. So if you file in 3 May but you don't get your decision until November, you 4 have several months in there that they're going to pay 5 you for the back or retroactive. And for the 12 months 6 ending September 30th for the veterans that Jenna worked 7 with, they got $921,000 in back pay, almost a million 8 bucks. 9 And then the monthly benefits that you gain, 10 the VA pays veterans, dependents, survivors every month 11 for disability, could be pension, that's $1.12 million. 12 So you add those two together, you're up around two 13 million bucks. That represents that up to today. 14 Effective January 1 of all those benefits like 15 this, pension is going to be raised by 8.7 percent, 16 that's just a standard, everybody's going to get it. 17 Social Security goes up that much, Military pay goes up 18 that much, the Federal rates. Most of that's due to 19 inflation. 20 The only other point I want to bring out is 21 always say that the benefits are always changing. 22 That's one of the reasons why Jenna has to go to so many 23 training sessions during the year because they've got to 24 keep up to date. If you're not up to date and you file 25 something incorrectly, it's going to get thrown back 102 1 out. 2 But one of the big changes recently is a law 3 that came into effect that raised life insurance. If 4 you're in the military service, you can buy life 5 insurance very cheaply. It doesn't depend upon your age 6 or your rank, it's a very inexpensive life insurance. 7 You pay for it depending upon how much you take out. 8 And then when you separate, if you want to continue that 9 insurance that becomes Veterans Group Life Insurance. 10 Used to be a $400,000 limit. They raised it to $500,000 11 which is a great benefit for those people who use that 12 life insurance. And that's my report. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 14 JUDGE KELLY: I don't think you can get any 15 better, Gary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: I don't think you could give a 18 better report. Okay. So we have no action to take on 19 that one? 20 MR. NOLLER: No, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He made a motion and I 22 seconded it. 23 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 24 second? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Uh-huh. To accept it. 103 1 JUDGE KELLY: To accept the report? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 4 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 5 Next item is a timed item at 10:30 is 1.21 6 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 7 reappoint Vicki Marsh to the Veterans Advisory Council. 8 The new term to be effective January 1, 2023. 9 MR. NOLLER: Again, Gary Noller, 140 Ray 10 Drive. Vicki's one of the regular members on the 11 Veterans Service Advisory Committee and the term expires 12 on December 31st and we would request that she be 13 reappointed effective January 1st, 2023, for another 14 three-year term. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 18 approve the reappointment of Vicki Marsh to the Veterans 19 Advisory Council. Any discussion? Thank you for 20 staying with us. 21 MR. NOLLER: Thank you. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Those in favor raise your 23 hand. 24 MR. NOLLER: Thank you. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.22 consider, discuss 104 1 and take appropriate action on request to hire a student 2 intern from Alamo Community College for the Veteran 3 Services office. There will be no cost to the County. 4 Miss Sanchez. 5 MISS SANCHEZ: Good morning. How are y'all 6 today? I hope in your package that y'all have some 7 information. But basically, I would like the approval 8 to post a job opening with Alamo Community Colleges, and 9 it's so anyone who is in either the business 10 administration field can apply, and they would work for 11 me to give them hours, but the college would pay for it. 12 And basically could help assist me doing clerical stuff 13 at work. It would be no more than 180 hours per 14 semester. And I would just like the approval to proceed 15 with that. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 19 approve posting a job opportunity for a student intern 20 from Alamo Community College for the Veterans Services 21 Office. At no expense to the County? 22 MS. SANCHEZ: Correct. Yes, sir. Alamo 23 Community College will pay for everything. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, we're all good news today. 25 All good. 105 1 MS. SANCHEZ: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That will be a 3 tremendous asset to you. 4 MS. SANCHEZ: Yes. Thank you very much. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 6 in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 7 Next 10:30 item is 1.23 an update regarding 8 the Veteran's Pathway Project. Commissioner Gipson. 9 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: This week I brought it 10 up -- I'll just read you this. The Veteran's Pathway 11 budget was approved with little more than a sketch of 12 the previously described goal. My mission is to get to 13 a point of precise description of budget in the schedule 14 for your formal approval before next year -- before 15 years end. 16 Since there is not -- not yet a formal plan, 17 I have nothing to submit for your approval. This is 18 merely an update on the status. I met November 1st with 19 Charlie Hastings and Tom Moser because they had done 20 previous planning and coordination prior to my 21 involvement. Tom Moser was essentially the origin of 22 the idea and Charlie Hastings has been involved. 23 During our meeting, we made a list of all 24 parties that will be necessary to plan the project to 25 accommodate its safe execution before involving others; 106 1 however, I made contact with the City staff and received 2 encouragement. We had previous approval of the crossing 3 by TxDOT. I've also appointed Jeff Harris to the 4 Veteran's Advisory Committee as an addition to our 5 planning committee. We now have eliminated at least the 6 most obvious derailments. 7 Within weeks we have a -- we will have a 8 meeting or meetings with all necessary parties in order 9 to more precisely determine what needs to be done and 10 how to do it, such as TxDOT, the City and County 11 engineering, County maintenance, Auditor, County 12 Attorney, and grant administrator and others. 13 When we have a precise description, a 14 schedule and a budget, the plan will be presented to 15 Commissioners' Court for consideration and action. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You know, I'm all for 17 this. I -- but I'm going to play devil's advocate. I 18 brought it up in Road & Bridge Monday morning meeting of 19 theirs, and I think Charlie was there. I'm not sure. 20 But we talked about -- you know, I'd just driven through 21 there and all the traffic there at Maldonado's. I mean, 22 good grief. They would be all over that walkway. 23 That's something to take into consideration. And I 24 don't know what the answer to that is, but it -- my 25 goodness. 107 1 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: TxDOT has already 2 agreed to totally redo their lights and to accommodate. 3 Which based on their safety background, I'm assuming 4 that's -- I understand your concern. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: That's part of the 7 reason I'm saying we've got to meet with a lot of people 8 to -- to figure out if all these assumptions I've put 9 together are correct or not. And whenever I get to that 10 point, I'll get back with you. 11 On that particular point, I don't know 12 specifically. All I know is what they've recommended. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the same concern, and 15 as a similar thing that we have with Mosty Nursery in 16 Center Point is that the business was there before the 17 roads really became used like it is today. And the 18 person to contact is going to be Ed Maldonado and he's 19 kind of hard to reach. So I have -- 20 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: He's on the list. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So I'll be 22 glad -- I've got a -- I can get a hold of him. So if 23 you -- when it's time to talk to Ed, let me know and 24 I'll make sure -- 25 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Okay. Thank you. 108 1 JUDGE KELLY: Keep up the good work. 2 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: That's all I got. 3 Thank you. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Next agenda item is 1.24 5 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to award 6 bid for a new county-wide communication system for the 7 Kerr County Sheriff's Office and Volunteer Fire 8 Departments. Ms. Putnam. 9 MS. PUTNAM: Hello. Okay. The County has 10 received two responses to the RFP for the new 11 county-wide communication system, one of which was a 12 qualified bid and the other was not. The election 13 review committee met last Wednesday on November 4th, 14 with all the members in attendance that you had 15 requested and appointed at the last meeting. 16 Jeff Harris was voted as the chairperson and 17 is here with us today to give to us the committee 18 recommendation. 19 MR. HARRIS: Thank you. Jeff Harris, 20 769 Oak Hills Lane here in Kerrville. As Noel stated, 21 we met last Wednesday. The panel of nine of us that was 22 appointed by the Commissioners' Court. We did have two 23 RFPs submitted. One was qualified, the other was 24 disqualified due to the criteria that was requested on 25 the -- on the application. We did grade the one RFP 109 1 that was approved by the commission, voting unanimously 2 to accept, and that was to make our recommendation to 3 the Court for the RFP for Motorola. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, I'm sorry. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you go ahead. 8 JUDGE KELLY: No, no. Go ahead with the 9 motion, Commissioner. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 12 second. Okay. Discussion? Any discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Jeff pretty much 14 explains it and it was kind of a good point when you 15 start going through the list of what you needed from 16 them. And it's not there on one of them so -- 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It's been a long 18 process. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I guess -- 20 I have not gone through the response in detail. So a 21 lot of this is based on radio coverage that meet certain 22 requirements. If the system is installed, if it does 23 not meet what was stated in the RFP, is there an 24 obligation for Motorola to do upgrades, whatever's 25 necessary to get the coverage that they say that we will 110 1 have? 2 MS. PUTNAM: Is that where the -- on those 3 maps? I was not a part of the scoring, but on the maps 4 I do believe there is something that stated there was 5 99 percent -- 6 MR. HARRIS: 99 percent based on coverage 7 area. 8 MS. PUTNAM: Yes. There's a little slice of 9 Precinct 4 that's, from my understanding, came in and 10 other things of that nature, that don't -- that will not 11 have necessarily the greatest coverage. Very mildly 12 populated, if at all. But otherwise, if you look into 13 the proposal itself the map has significant coverage for 14 the needs of the County. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess my 16 question is what if it doesn't meet 99 percent? 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, the contour map 18 shows it's 99 percent. I mean that -- that should be 19 pretty easy. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You were on the board, 21 weren't you? 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. I was on it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess my question 24 is, you know, I mean -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that's sales talk, 111 1 I realize that. So sales talk, yes, the contour map 2 shows they did everything and some of it's stronger than 3 others. And if they have to supplement and do whatever 4 they have to do to make sure we have coverage in those 5 other areas. Plus, this system rolls over into that 6 system. 7 So if we got out in far west Kerr, there 8 might be another tower we can pick up and so on. So it 9 should be fine based on what I looked at. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess if -- I 11 just want to make sure that we're going to -- if we 12 don't get the coverage that they're saying we're going 13 to get that they have to -- they're obligated to give us 14 that coverage. 15 MR. HARRIS: What we did, Commissioner, was 16 we looked at the two proposals. All we did was make a 17 recommendation. The -- as far as when it gets into the 18 contractual portion between the County and Motorola, 19 that will be something that will be in the contract. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I was in a lot of the 21 early conversations, the Judge was too. Sheriff, I'm 22 going to ask you. It -- it seems to me that Motorola 23 said that if we don't deliver, if we don't have the 24 coverage we say we will, we will make it good. 25 SHERIFF LEITHA: Correct. And we'll confirm 112 1 that when we start talking, of course. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And it has to be in 3 writing on a piece of paper you see, so -- 4 SHERIFF LEITHA: We'll make sure. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm getting 6 to. That needs to be in the contract. 7 MR. HARRIS: Exactly. 8 JUDGE KELLY: With this approval then you 9 begin the contract phase. 10 MR. HARRIS: Right. 11 MRS. STEBBINS: That's the next item. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And that's the next agenda 13 item. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That goes to the County 15 Attorney. 16 JUDGE KELLY: So any extra discussion about 17 1.24, which is to award the bid for the county-wide 18 communication system to Motorola. I have -- Mr. 19 Anderson, would you like to address the Court on that? 20 MR. ANDERSON: I'm here from LCRA. If you 21 have any questions about why we responded the way we 22 did. But I'm happy to just observe. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So with that, those in 24 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 25 We'll move on to 1.25, which is consider, 113 1 discuss and take appropriate action to enter into 2 contract/negotiations for a new countywide communication 3 system for the Kerr County Sheriff's Office and 4 Volunteer Fire Departments. Ms. Putnam. 5 MS. PUTNAM: Exactly as stated. Since this 6 item was approved, if you would like us to go ahead and 7 move forth with getting the contractual statement 8 together and prepared to begin that process. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll make a motion. 10 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: So we've got a motion and a 12 second. Any discussions? Those in favor raise your 13 hand. Unanimous, five zero. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's entered into -- 15 who's doing that? I mean Noel's -- 16 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't do the contract 17 negotiations. I review the contract or draft it as 18 asked. 19 MS. PUTNAM: I'm available to assist in 20 whatever you may need, but I would assume that this 21 falls on Sheriff Leitha. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. It's his system. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to know 24 who's responsible. 25 JUDGE KELLY: All right. 114 1 MRS. DOWDY: Are you signing this? Does the 2 Judge need to sign? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: Not yet. Just negotiations 4 at this point; not -- 5 MRS. DOWDY: What was the motion? I'm 6 sorry. The motion and the second? And who made the 7 second? I didn't catch that. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Beck made the second. 9 MRS. DOWDY: Okay. 10 JUDGE KELLY: And the motion was -- 11 MRS. DOWDY: To enter in a contract? 12 JUDGE KELLY: -- to authorize the County, 13 KCSO, to enter into contract negotiations for a new 14 countywide communication system for the Kerr County 15 Sheriff's Office and Volunteer Fire Departments. And 16 I'm sure there will be various ones of us involved in 17 that as we go through it. So we got a motion and a 18 second to approve that. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And the Sheriff's going 20 to be the point man. 21 JUDGE KELLY: (Shakes head yes.) Because 22 there may be times when -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. And you can 24 call anybody in. 25 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. 115 1 JUDGE KELLY: So those in favor raise your 2 hand. Unanimous, five zero. 3 Now, take a breath. We need to go back to 4 Item 1.2. We finished our timed items. Item 1.2 5 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to amend 6 Court Order No. 39599 approving the Interlocal Agreement 7 with local entities for Hazardous Mitigation Action Plan 8 to increase the match for each participant from 2,000 to 9 $3,800. Dub Thomas. 10 MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Judge and 11 Commissioners. So I'm here to basically clean up a 12 little mess. So during my conversations with GrantWorks 13 about the hazard mitigation plan and how we did it last 14 time was everybody in the plan had an equal part in the 15 plan and paid an equal amount to get the mitigation plan 16 done. Somehow that didn't come out through the 17 conversations this time. It didn't make it to the girl 18 that was doing the contract. So -- and it was going to 19 be $2,000.00 for each participant but actually it needs 20 to be $3,800, which we -- basically what we did last 21 time if we took the entire 25 percent that the County 22 that we were going to be responsible for the plan and 23 split it up amongst all ten jurisdictions, and that's 24 what this does. It's going to cost $38,000 after the 25 FEMA portion. All ten jurisdictions will pay $3,800. 116 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And this is a good 2 thing? 3 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir. It would cost us 4 significantly more for the County. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the Interlocal Agreement with the local entities 9 for Hazardous Mitigation Action Plan from 2,000 to 10 $3,800. Any discussion? Those in favor raise your 11 hand. Unanimous, five oh. 12 Item 1.3 consider, discuss and take 13 appropriate action to approve documents related to the 14 Hazardous Mitigation Grant Program for the Hazardous 15 Mitigation Action Plan and allow the County Judge to 16 sign as appropriate. Documents include Hazard 17 Mitigation Program Application certification, grant 18 terms and conditions, assurances, non-construction 19 programs, certification regarding lobbying, disclosure 20 of lobbying activities, resolution authorizing 21 submission of hazard mitigation assistance grant 22 application, and resolution regarding local matching. 23 Dub Thomas. 24 MR. THOMAS: So, yeah. Judge, 25 Commissioners. Those are basically all the same forms 117 1 that we did for the last mitigation plan in 2015. The 2 two items that I really need you to pass are the two 3 Resolutions. One is a resolution for Kerr County, 4 Texas, committing Kerr County to provide local national 5 funds to secure and complete the hazard mitigation 6 FEMA -- hazard mitigation planning grant. And the other 7 one is a Resolution of the County of Kerr, authorizing 8 the submission of hazard mitigation assistance grant 9 application and appointing the Judge the chief executive 10 officer and authorized representative to act in all 11 matters in connection with the FEMA mitigation grant. 12 The other forms are the lobbying forms and 13 the next stuff is -- we -- we did that, we did that for 14 all of them, for any grant. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I'm looking at my grant 16 administrator. 17 MS. PUTNAM: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. All of 18 these are just typical forms that we will need to do. 19 We might even have some of them already. Maybe. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are each of these filed 21 individually? 22 MS. PUTNAM: It goes with the grant 23 application itself. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's a laundry list 25 that goes with it? 118 1 MS. PUTNAM: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Did you second? 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Uh-huh. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 execute all these necessary documents that I've entailed 9 in this presentation. 10 (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Those in favor raise your 14 hand. Unanimous. 15 Okay. Item 1.4 consider, discuss and take 16 appropriate action to rescind Court Order No. 39260, 17 approving the purchase of a Ford Explorer from 18 Enterprise Fleet Management for the AgriLife Extension 19 Office. Ms. Fiedler. 20 MS. FIEDLER: Yes. This is Angela Fiedler 21 with Texas A&M AgriLife Extension Service for Kerr 22 County. I hope this is the last time for a while that 23 I'll have to come in here. So the first action item is 24 to rescind the original approval of the Ford that we 25 approved back in April. That vehicle is no longer 119 1 available. 2 JUDGE KELLY: That seems like a no-brainer 3 to me. 4 MS. FIEDLER: And so we would like to 5 rescind that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 10 rescind the order to purchase the original Ford Explorer 11 back in April. Any discussion? Those in favor raise 12 your hand. Unanimous. 13 Move on to 1.5, which is consider, discuss 14 and take appropriate action to ratify and confirm the 15 purchase of a 2022 Ford Explorer from Enterprise Fleet 16 Management for the AgriLife Extension Office. 17 MS. FIEDLER: That is correct. 18 JUDGE KELLY: This is the new one. 19 MS. FIEDLER: This is the new one. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Those are the three. Did we 21 sign them all? I guess you get one. 22 MS. FIEDLER: We sure hope so. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I move for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Well, you got a motion. 120 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are you second? 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No, I didn't. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We got a motion and a 5 second to authorize the AgriLife Extension Office to 6 purchase the new 2022 Ford Explorer from Enterprise. 7 Any other discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. Okay. We just 9 rescinded one. And -- and it wasn't available. It was 10 going to be $643 a month? 11 MS. FIEDLER: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And now we're going to 13 over a thousand dollars a month. That's a hell of a 14 jump? 15 MS. FIEDLER: It's $973.73. Uh-huh. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I show $1,019.98 17 but -- 18 MS. FIEDLER: Correct. With additional 19 service and things like that, correct. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, that's almost my 21 mortgage. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is that apples to 23 apples, or is that something else? 24 MS. FIEDLER: Yes. We actually -- have to 25 actually spend a little bit more and every time we do 121 1 this it'll probably be more. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, they need 3 something. They need something bad. But my gosh, we 4 just jumped almost $400 a month. 5 JUDGE KELLY: We've been hammered on every 6 one of these. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. Man, this 8 is -- it's like how much will these guys take? 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What's the total price 10 of this unit? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 46,000. And it was 31. 12 MS. FIEDLER: I have another choice, but it 13 was more. So we came to you. But if you decide to do 14 that one -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You made the right 16 decision. 17 MS. FIEDLER: But that -- that's where we 18 were at. 19 JUDGE KELLY: So we've got a motion and a 20 second. Any other discussion? Those in favor raise 21 your hand. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: They've got to have 23 it. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. The next item on the 25 agenda is 1.6 consider, discuss, and take appropriate 122 1 action to accept the OOG, Office of the Governor, grant 2 award for Kerr County Victims Services' Department. 3 Miss Peter. 4 MS. PETER: I'm Pam Peter. I'm the Victims 5 Service Coordinator and I'm just asking the Court to 6 accept the grant and all things within for this year. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 10 second to approve accepting the grant award to the Kerr 11 County Victim Services from the Governor's Office. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was accepted as 13 submitted? 14 MS. PETER: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the total 16 amount, do you have that? And if you don't -- 17 MS. PETER: From the OOG is $119,475. And 18 there's no cash match this year again. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's going to run out on 20 us one of these days. 21 MS. PETER: I just keep rolling the dice. I 22 figure we might get it one more year with no match, but 23 I don't know. We'll see. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We have to provide it. 25 MS. PETER: Correct. It has to be provided. 123 1 JUDGE KELLY: And the Sheriff -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the best offer 3 there is. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 5 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. Thank you. 6 MS. PETER: Thank you. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.7 consider, discuss and 8 take appropriate action regarding the state-mandated 9 cybersecurity training courses offered by the Texas 10 Association of Counties. Bruce Motheral. 11 MR. MOTHERAL: Good morning, gentlemen. 12 It's time for our annual fun. Everybody gets to take 13 it. 14 JUDGE KELLY: We do this once a year, right? 15 MR. MOTHERAL: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. I'll move for 17 approval. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 20 approve, what, the mandated cybersecurity training 21 course. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: To accept the 23 inevitable. Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Just got a motion. 25 MRS. DOWDY: Yeah. A motion and a second. 124 1 JUDGE KELLY: And a second? We've got a 2 motion and a second to approve the mandated 3 cybersecurity training course. Any discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our deadline? 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: End of the year. 6 MR. MOTHERAL: No. End of June. That's 7 what we'd like. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Don't forget about it 9 until May. 10 MR. MOTHERAL: It happens every year. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Those in favor raise 12 your hand. Unanimous. Thanks, Bruce. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll get an e-mail about 14 June first probably. 15 JUDGE KELLY: 1.8 consider, discuss and take 16 appropriate action regarding the Court Order No. 39562, 17 approving the Kerr County Maintenance Director to seek 18 out request for proposals regarding repairs to the east 19 and west sidewalks of the County Courthouse. Shane 20 Evans. 21 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. Good morning, 22 gentlemen. We will not have to go out for the RFP. 23 We're already getting the sidewalks fixed right now. So 24 I'd ask that we rescind the Court order to get requests 25 for proposals. 125 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason, the 2 quote came in incredibly low. 3 MR. EVANS: Yeah. It was 2,000 -- $2,775 to 4 do both sides. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I told the Judge about 6 it and he thought it was thousands. 7 MR. EVANS: So did I at first, you know, 8 but -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 10 rescind Court Order whatever it is, 39562. 11 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 12 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 13 second. Any discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll do it for free. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Raise your hand. It's 16 unanimous. 17 Okay. Item 1.9 consider, discuss and take 18 appropriate action to approve the contract with Republic 19 Services for one two-yard container (dumpster) for the 20 Ingram Annex, and allow County Judge to sign same. 21 Shane Evans. 22 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir. If y'all accept the 23 contract for Republic Services as presented, and she has 24 approved. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 126 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 3 approve the contract with Republic Services for the 4 dumpster. Any discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, a little bit. 6 It's very short. Our old annex, there wasn't room to 7 even put a Dumpster. This one, we have additional 8 offices. What maintenance -- or housekeeping was doing 9 in the past at the old place, they were bringing the 10 dirty stuff in the bag in their vehicle inside with them 11 back to dump it here. So this is well needed. We're 12 coming up in the world. 13 JUDGE KELLY: The things the County does to 14 make due. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other discussion? 17 Those in favor raise your hand. It's unanimous. 18 Okay. Going to the next page. We stopped 19 at 1.16, so we'll go to item 1.17, which is to consider, 20 discuss and take appropriate action regarding the 21 Resolution and Interlocal Agreement to the Texas 22 Department of Agriculture for a Texas Community 23 Development Block grant Colonia Planning and Needs 24 Assessment. Mr. Hastings. 25 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. We were 127 1 just discussing this. I -- I don't know a whole lot 2 about this. 3 (Laughter). 4 MR. HASTINGS: I'm happy to stand up here 5 and tell you what I do know. 6 JUDGE KELLY: We had a -- we had a meeting 7 with the owner, and the top executives with GrantWorks, 8 who advised us that we really need to do this 9 assessment, even though I know there's not a lot of 10 juice for the squeeze. I remember that. 11 MR. HASTINGS: That's right. 12 JUDGE KELLY: I used that phrase in that 13 meeting. But they say the concern is that if we don't 14 do it, if we don't participate in it, then we won't be 15 on the approved list to be able to apply for other 16 grants for Colonia's in the future. 17 MR. HASTINGS: So this is just putting our 18 name in the hat for the -- for Colonia's in the future. 19 JUDGE KELLY: But this is the carrot and the 20 stick, they're inviting us to cooperate with their 21 request for assessments so they can get the data that 22 keeps us qualified to receive funds in the future. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Very good. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It helps them and then 25 it helps us. 128 1 JUDGE KELLY: So I move that we approve 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second. 5 Any discussion? Everybody in favor, raise your hand. 6 Unanimous. 7 1.18 consider, discuss and take appropriate 8 action to renew the contract with Kerr Economic 9 Development Corporation. Commissioner Letz. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did everyone get copies 11 of the new contract? It's not in the backup. Why don't 12 we pass on this. I can give you a quick update. It's 13 an annual contract and it just slipped through. The 14 money is budgeted. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nothing's changed? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: It changed because we put it 18 in the budget. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There wasn't an 20 amount change. What changed in the contract was it's 21 got an automatic renewal in it. And I asked Heather to 22 add that to it so it wouldn't lapse. And it also 23 referenced the most recent economic development document 24 that we did several years ago with Chuck's input. Chuck 25 Kimbrough's input. The previous agreement referenced 129 1 the 2003 policy. So we made those two updates. But 2 other than that the contract did not change. 3 JUDGE KELLY: So we'll pass on that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can pass and bring it 5 back next time. 6 JUDGE KELLY: We'll move on to Item 1.19 7 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 8 funding of the Volunteer First Responder Program. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. A while back 10 this came up that we had this volunteer responder 11 program and I think Jonathan brought it up. And because 12 I was unaware of it, I did a little investigation. And 13 I asked HR for a list of everybody that we had on this 14 table. All the names. I called every one of them. Not 15 a one of them is involved in the program. Some of them 16 had a different phone number or didn't answer or never 17 returned my call. So there was zero response to this. 18 So I'm not saying it's a bad program; I'm 19 saying that we're putting money someplace that isn't 20 being used. So the program might have merit; it might 21 not. 22 I also reached out to Eric Maloney over at 23 the Kerrville Fire Department to see if he had a list 24 and he didn't have anything. So I don't know if it's 25 even being used. And we can't -- it's not -- I don't 130 1 want to necessarily just throw the program away, but it 2 hasn't done anything so far. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. And -- and 4 this -- I appreciate this, because it brings attention 5 to it. I think it's a good program. But where are we 6 at with it? I do know in an ESD #1 meeting at one time 7 Chris Hughes had brought up some names that were 8 supposedly active in it. I don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we don't have 10 that list. He's the only one with it if there is one. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Then why don't we just pass on 12 this and work this through the first part of next year? 13 And by the time we get to -- you know to budget time 14 we'll know whether to keep it in the budget or not. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it's -- it's in 16 amber right now is what I'm -- suspended animation. 17 Yeah, what are we going to -- what are we -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we haven't spent the 20 money. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Well, what I'm 22 saying is put the money someplace else if we can't 23 figure out. Right now I would say that the program, 24 just judging by this, has failed. Because you don't 25 have any participants, they moved on. The people I was 131 1 able to talk to said well, you know, my schedule's 2 changed, I didn't have time. That kind of -- that usual 3 kind of -- you're not paying them, they're volunteers. 4 They may be able to respond, maybe not. But I didn't 5 find one that's active. 6 And I didn't find any that remembered doing 7 it. They remembered signing up, a couple of them, and 8 they said, oh, what is that again? That kind of 9 response is what I got. And I had probably ten people 10 on the list. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, it needs to be 12 kickstarted or done away with. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, so -- so the deal 14 is I don't know how -- how we could go about doing that. 15 If we can do that, that would be great. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the -- 17 well, one of the -- it used to work. And I've talked to 18 Chief Maloney a little bit about it. And you know, 19 he's -- he needs to be definitely involved with the 20 discussions. 21 One area that it could work -- well, what it 22 does is it trains volunteers to have a level of EMS 23 knowledge that they are authorized to work with the 24 Kerrville ambulances and give -- administer certain 25 care. 132 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So they're not in the 2 way and they're helping. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. If nothing else, 4 a lot of the volunteer fire departments may want to go 5 through the program. I think that's -- to get people -- 6 to me they're the most logical ones because -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they're -- they are 9 actually volunteering. And if some of them want to get 10 this training, it's well worth it. But I think it needs 11 to get, you know, go back to KARFA to -- 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I agree. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to the fire chief and 14 see if they want to get it going. Some of the ESD's, 15 it's probably -- you know, KARFA, ESD's and City of 16 Kerrville need to sit and figure out how to make it work 17 and if it's not going to work, get rid of it. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And all -- all of the 19 volunteer fire departments need funds for this kind of 20 thing anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City will provide 22 the training at no cost. 23 JUDGE KELLY: But there's no action to be 24 taken at this time? 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. Just -- it's on 133 1 everybody's radar now. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE KELLY: So we'll pass on that one. 4 Moving over to the next untimed item will be Item 1.26 5 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to accept 6 the Office of the Governor's grant award for the Kerr 7 County Sheriff's office for body worn cameras grant. 8 Sheriff Leitha. 9 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yeah. I'll start it off. 10 But basically, Judge and Commissioners, we're looking 11 for your approval to accept this body worn camera grant 12 where we can start replacing our old body cameras. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Is there any reason why we 14 wouldn't want to do that? 15 SHERIFF LEITHA: No. I don't think so, no. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Can't think of one? 17 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yeah. No, I can't. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Kind of sounds like a 19 no-brainer to me. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 21 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 23 second to approve the OOG's grant award to the Sheriff's 24 Office for body worn cameras. Any discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only just to -- kind of 134 1 a comment on this. And it's not really about this 2 specifically but others. We have an awful lot of 3 grants. And they all require monitoring to stay in 4 compliance. And we need to really look at that with all 5 the grants that we're applying for and how we're -- and 6 if the Auditor used to and maybe he still is, is doing a 7 lot of the compliance. But we really need to start to 8 figure out how to keep track of all -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: He's saying no. 10 MRS. SHELTON: Yeah. It's up to the grant 11 administrator to ensure that they're complying with all 12 of the grant covenants. We audit. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And I talk -- I talk to Noel 14 and Jody almost daily on some aspect of these grants. 15 And Noel's done a great job of staying on top of it. 16 And I -- I get these notices from TEA, OOG, whatever, 17 you know, that we're going to issue on some grants. 18 Just a number. And I got to -- oh, which one is this? 19 And then I find out that we're -- we've got it all kept 20 current. 21 MS. PUTNAM: I want y'all to also know that 22 once the grant is written and the funds are accepted, I 23 do not have access to it anymore. I no longer get the 24 correspondence unless you forward it to me. I'm the 25 grant writer, but I do not have the option of being the 135 1 grant manager, so that would be the project manager on 2 there. I'm willing to assist in any way I can. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And who -- who is the manager? 4 MS. PUTNAM: The project manager. 5 MR. GORE: So I'm the project manager for 6 this one. So I get through -- through e-Grants, I get 7 all the e-mails to update anything. So any budget 8 adjustments or anything like that, I'll go in and do all 9 that kind of stuff. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So in each department, 11 somebody is designated a project manager. Wherever that 12 grant is going. Some of those are one-person 13 departments. 14 MR. GORE: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that would just fall 16 to them. That's what we're saying? 17 MR. GORE: Yeah. 18 MS. PUTNAM: I think -- 19 MR. GORE: For some -- some counties, like 20 we've talked to Kimble County, their grant administrator 21 does everything on it. So they're listed as the grant 22 administrator of the County and they monitor all those 23 grants throughout the project period. So it's just 24 county by county. 25 JUDGE KELLY: But I can tell you this much. 136 1 The things that they didn't tell you before you take 2 this job, they copy me on everything. I mean 3 everything. I mean, you have no idea of the volume that 4 I get, and go to Jody, and Jody goes to Noel and we 5 get -- it's all being done. That's why we had to get 6 the grant administrator, because we couldn't do it all. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's really where 8 I'm going, is that you know how important Noel is to 9 become -- you know, have a grant administrator. I 10 shudder to think how we got a lot of stuff done and 11 stayed in compliance prior to Noel being here. But I 12 think -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Prior? I'll tell you what it 14 was -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- but I 16 think it's something to really look at to keep a -- you 17 know, so I don't know if it's Noel or where it's done, 18 but the -- you know, we have this grant, who's 19 responsible for it, just so there's -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 21 MRS. STEBBINS: May I add one more thing to 22 that? I think that with that it's very important that 23 each of the project managers and department heads or 24 elected officials who are asking for the grant is aware 25 of what is required in the grant and the terms before 137 1 there's -- that application is ever submitted and then 2 any subsequent acceptance of the grant. That that's -- 3 that's a really important piece of it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of the 5 whole -- I think we need to put it on a future agenda or 6 workshop or whatever after the first of the year. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Some kind of a master 8 file so whenever -- so somebody can look at it at a 9 glance? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something like that but 11 it's something -- it's just what Heather said. I think 12 that we need to -- we apply for so many grants and we're 13 subject to so many grants, it worries me that, you know, 14 that we need to stay in compliance, because if you 15 don't -- you know, if you're out of compliance the 16 ramifications are bad. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: One of the last meetings 18 that we talked, Tanya and Noel and Jody and I, 19 suggested -- we talked about a workshop with electeds or 20 department heads and the commissioners for sure, and 21 Noel could provide some -- some training for submitting 22 grant applications, and then what comes with that so it 23 would be helpful to have a workshop style program for -- 24 for all of you and the department heads. 25 MS. PUTNAM: And additionally, in addition 138 1 to that, the Office of the Governor also does provide 2 free webinars and trainings, one of which is required 3 every year. Pam Peter and I are signed up for it and so 4 is Scott, he's going to attend one as well. So they 5 have workshops that we use to make sure that we do stay 6 in compliance. 7 But I would like to -- at some point, to be 8 brought up at a later date, as Heather stated, is to get 9 together and do some sort of presentation to kind of -- 10 policies and procedures for the new positions to make it 11 easier for department heads and officials to go into the 12 process of looking for grant funding. 13 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Well, and I just want to 14 reiterate what Heather said. We don't want people 15 applying for grants to assume that Noel is going to take 16 on all the responsibility for reporting because she 17 doesn't have that information. It's coming from the 18 Department that applied for the grant. She can help 19 write the grant. She can help do everything with 20 e-grants to get it going. But once it's going, that 21 department has to take over. 22 Again, they can ask her for assistance but 23 she doesn't have the time to do all the reporting. Like 24 Pam does the reporting for herself on her grants and 25 then Tanya does the financials I think on that one. 139 1 MS. PUTNAM: And I don't have access -- 2 MRS. GRINSTEAD: The project, updating 3 reporting, Pam does that. And so we need -- as people 4 come forward and get all these grants, they need to 5 understand it's not just hey, you've won the grant, take 6 your money and run. Because Noel cannot -- she doesn't 7 have the time to do all that reporting also, so -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So it's another thing 9 for which we have no policy. 10 MS. PUTNAM: And I don't have -- I don't 11 have super secret clearance for a lot of the stuff that 12 is required, like indictments and things for some of the 13 reporting. So in order to do some of that reporting, it 14 requires me to have access to sensitive materials that I 15 don't currently have, and obviously you wouldn't want me 16 to have. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's a good 18 discussion on that, that we need to do a workshop. 19 JUDGE KELLY: But I -- let me just assure 20 everybody here and the public listening, if they're 21 still listening to it. I don't know. Where we were a 22 year ago, two years ago, and where we are today is night 23 and day. And bringing on a grant administrator was a 24 God send. And getting somebody that can supervise her 25 and stays on top of everything, I'm telling you, changed 140 1 her job description, changed my life. Really. I mean 2 it. Thank you. We haven't perfected it. We'll get 3 there. 4 So there's no action to take now? 5 MRS. GRINSTEAD: We do need to set it on -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we have a motion 7 and -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: 126? 1.26? 9 MS. PUTNAM: Yes. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Have we voted on it? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we haven't voted. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Then on accepting the 13 grant for the body worn cameras grant, those in favor 14 raise your hand. Unanimous. 15 SHERIFF LEITHA: Thank you. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Item 1.27 is to 17 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to ratify 18 and confirm Proclamation Recognizing the Rotary District 19 5840 District Conference. 20 We're having that here and they're asking 21 for a proclamation. I'm make a motion that we do that. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 24 approve the Proclamation Recognizing the Rotary District 25 5840 District Conference. Any discussion? Those in 141 1 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 2 1.28 consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action on implementation of the burn ban. It's that 4 time again. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 8 Any discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 9 Unanimous. 10 1.29 consider, discuss and take appropriate 11 action to approve contracts with, and we have a list of 12 folks here: K'Star, Tierra Linda Volunteer Fire 13 Department, Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, 14 Castle Lake Volunteer Fire Department, Comfort Volunteer 15 Fire Department, Hunt Volunteer Fire Department, and 16 Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, and authorize me to 17 sign off. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 21 Any discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Is there a reason 23 Center Point is not on it? 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: They probably were the 25 last couple because -- 142 1 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Okay. I wanted to 2 make sure they will be or -- all right. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: They will be. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We do need to add them in 5 there. Okay. All those in favor raise your hand. 6 Unanimous. 7 Item 1.30 consider, discuss and take 8 appropriate action to surplus items for various 9 departments. Ms. Shelton. 10 MS. SHELTON: Yes. You have before you -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: We haven't heard from you all 12 day. 13 MS. SHELTON: How about that? I should 14 start with good afternoon. And so you have before you a 15 couple of lists -- or one list and then one item of 16 departments that are requesting to surplus items. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 19 JUDGE KELLY: We have a motion and a second 20 to approve surplusing the items as presented. Any 21 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 22 Item 1.31 consider, discuss and take 23 appropriate action regarding the filing of Adult 24 Probation's Statement of Financial Position for the year 25 ending August 31, 2022. Ms. Shelton. 143 1 MS. SHELTON: Yes. The financial management 2 manual from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, 3 the Community Justice Assistance Division or CJAD 4 funding requires that a statement of financial position 5 be offered to Commissioners' Court within 90 days after 6 the end of the fiscal year. This is that statement. 7 We're asking that you accept it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 11 approve the Adult Probation's statement of financial 12 position as presented. Any discussion? Those in favor 13 raise your hand. Unanimous. 14 Item 1.32 consider, discuss and take 15 appropriate action on the "Ricoh Order Agreement" and 16 the "Ricoh Product Schedule" as presented, leasing two 17 Ricoh IM6000 copier/printers for a term of 60 months in 18 the County Clerk's office, and authorize the County 19 Judge to sign those documents. And these items were 20 submitted to the County Attorney's office for review on 21 November 1, 2022 respectfully. 22 MRS. DOWDY: Yes. County Attorney made 23 suggestions within a day or so. So thank you, Heather, 24 for that. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: You're welcome. 144 1 MRS. DOWDY: And Judge, those changes are on 2 your contract but I did not have a chance to get it in 3 the backup for the rest of the Commissioners and I'm 4 trying to remember what it was. Oh, to the extent 5 authorized by law, and then also to strike out the late 6 fee charges. So I'd just request -- 7 JUDGE KELLY: And reviewed by the County 8 Attorney? 9 MRS. DOWDY: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. I move for 11 approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 14 approve the Ricoh order agreement and the Ricoh product 15 schedule for the two new Ricoh machines in the County 16 Clerk's office as presented. Any discussion? Those in 17 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 18 MRS. DOWDY: And I'd like to note that these 19 contracts are saving the County roughly over $300 per 20 month. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Excellent. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Good. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That helps with that 24 car. Thank you, Jackie. 25 (Laughter.) 145 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Item 1.33 consider, 2 discuss and take appropriate action to approve the 2023 3 Workers' Compensation renewal with Texas Association of 4 Counties. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, this came in. 6 This is our standard renewal. Came in last week. And 7 my recollection is it's a pretty short time fuse on 8 getting it approved and back to TAC. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I see a nod out there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it has to be back by 11 the end of the month or end -- I don't know. I know 12 it's a short timeline. Anyway, HR has looked over it 13 and -- I received it and they looked over it. 14 Everything looks good. I'll make a motion to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 17 approve the 2023 Workers' Compensation renewal with TAC. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put the bill in close, 19 Tanya. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 21 favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 22 Okay. Approval agenda. 2.1 budget 23 amendments. 24 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. You have four budget 25 adjustments in front of you. The first budget 146 1 adjustment that you're looking at does include the lease 2 that y'all approved earlier today. This is going to 3 require money from the contingency fund. We're also 4 looking to try to fund a project that was not completed 5 last year for IT. It's part of this budget amendment. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What -- what's the 9 large one there, the $84,000? 10 MS. SHELTON: That's what -- that was for 11 the IT project that was going on last year that we're in 12 the final phases of it. And so that's -- 13 MR. MOTHERAL: We're waiting on equipment. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Equipment? 15 JUDGE KELLY: Waiting on equipment? 16 MR. MOTHERAL: Yeah. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Got a motion and a 18 second to approve the budget amendments as presented. 19 Any discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. 20 Unanimous. 21 2.2 pay bills. 22 MS. SHELTON: Yes. Invoices for today's 23 consideration, $830,196.17. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 147 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 3 Sounds like the entire Commissioners to pay the bills as 4 presented. Any discussion? Those in favor raise your 5 hand. Unanimous. 6 2.3 late bills. 7 MS. SHELTON: There are not any. 8 JUDGE KELLY: 2.4 Auditor reports. 9 MS. SHELTON: There are not any. 10 JUDGE KELLY: And 2.5 monthly reports. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes, sir. For quarter 12 July 1, 2022 through September 30th, 2022. County 13 Treasurer's Portfolio Summary, Tracy Soldan. For 14 October, 2022, County Clerk, Jackie "JD" Dowdy. Payroll 15 report, County Treasurer, Tracy Soldan. Animal Control 16 Services, Director Reagan Givens. 17 Constables. Precinct 1, Tommy Rodriguez. 18 Precinct 2, Kyle Snyder. Precinct 3, Paul Gonzales. 19 Precinct 4, Brad Rider. Justice of the Peace Precinct 20 1, Mitzi French. Precinct 2, J. R. Hoyne. Precinct 3, 21 Kathy Mitchell. Environmental Health OSSF, Director 22 Ashli Badders. Auditor's monthly report, Tanya Shelton. 23 District Clerk, Dawn Lantz. I move for approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 148 1 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any 2 discussion? Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 3 Court Orders. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have court orders 5 from our October 24th meeting, 39614 through 39643. 6 Make a motion to approve them. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 9 approve the court orders as presented. Any discussion? 10 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous. 11 Moving on to the Information Agenda. 3.1 12 status reports from Department Heads. 13 3.2. Status reports from Elected Officials. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: I have a quick introduction. 15 This is Nick Krupa. He's our new investigator for the 16 Kerr County Attorney's Office. This is an invitation. 17 If you need anything, give him a call. If you want to 18 give him a hard time as you pass him in the hall, please 19 do so. He deserves it. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Have you ever been a 21 bouncer? 22 MR. KRUPA: A long time ago, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. You had the 24 look. 25 MR. KRUPA: You should have seen me 20 years 149 1 ago. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And our -- is saying you can't 4 ask those kind of questions. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I could hide behind 6 that guy. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think he's some 8 distant relation to Byron. 9 Okay. Any other Elected Officials? 10 Okay. We'll move on to 3.3 Liaison 11 Commissioner reports. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. I spoke with 13 Michael Haynes with AgriLife, and we have seven 14 candidates that he asked me to sit in December 28th 15 through -- no, November 28th through December 1, we're 16 going to interview these seven candidates. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And narrow it down. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: For extension agent, 19 yeah. And narrow it down to what -- to bring it here 20 like we've done in the past. That sounds good. Seven 21 candidates. That's great. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an update. The 23 event is going to be at the Hill Country Youth Event 24 Center. Most of you probably know that the sign kind of 25 works sporadically out there. The lights on it and all 150 1 that stuff. Anyway, I talked to Jake and he is going to 2 go out and get an idea and a request from the similar 3 signs with the Antler Stadium, and bring it to the Court 4 for us to approve. 5 And then we'll be -- we could use the funds 6 that we have set aside that we're obligated to spend out 7 at that facility for the cost. But it'll be some kind 8 of a LED. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What's he going to do 10 to it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's going to go out to 12 get a proposal for a sign like that. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Sounds good. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: Is he working with the City 15 on -- for the sign ordinance compliance? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Never dull in the County. 20 Okay. I think that concludes the main part of our 21 agenda. 22 For Executive Session we will adjourn into 23 Executive Session to discuss consultation with our 24 attorneys, 4.1, 4.2 on personnel matters, and 4.2(a) is 25 a status reports from the Human Resources Department and 151 1 discussion related to contract from the interim Human 2 Resources Director. And then also, for item 4.3, which 3 is discussion regarding contract negotiations. 4 4.3(a) is to consider, discuss and take 5 appropriate action regarding the consulting contract 6 with Jill Shackelford for the Aggregate Production 7 Operations services. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: And before you go into 9 Executive Session, that's my written opinion for 4.3(a). 10 JUDGE KELLY: The contract. And we have to 11 take a vote? 12 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Either to discuss this 14 contract negotiations with Jill Shackelford. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: The vote should be that 16 negotiations in open court would interfere with Kerr 17 County's position or negotiations with a third party. 18 JUDGE KELLY: So move. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Those in favor raise 21 your hand. We'll talk about it. Thank you. 22 Okay. So with that we're going to adjourn 23 into Executive Session. 24 (Executive Session.) 25 JUDGE KELLY: It is 1:19 and we're coming 152 1 out of executive session. And last agenda item is 5.1 2 action that may be required on matter in executive 3 session. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is that, the second 5 item? 6 JUDGE KELLY: 4.3(a). 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On 4.3(a), I make a 8 motion that we authorize payment to Jill Shackelford of 9 28 -- $2,810.00 for services already rendered, and then 10 a six-month extension for another 27 -- $2,710.00. 11 JUDGE KELLY: I think it's two live meetings 12 and travel. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Twenty eight ten once. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty-eight ten for 15 both. For what we've already paid, and twenty-eight ten 16 for the next six months. 17 COMMISSIONER GIPSON: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got motion and a second to 19 continue our consulting contract with Jill Shackelford 20 for six months, and compensate her at twenty-eight ten 21 for the past six months, and twenty-eight ten for the 22 next six months. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: For people who don't 24 know what she does, it's consulting -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: In East Kerr County. 153 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- for the aggregates, 2 the homeowners, and the producers. 3 JUDGE KELLY: The aggregate facility. So 4 okay. We got a motion and a second. Any discussion? 5 Those in favor raise your hand. Unanimous, five zero. 6 And there being no other business before the 7 Court, we are adjourned, and you're excused. 8 * * * * * * 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 154 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 25th day of November, A.D. 10 2022. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2023 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25