1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, March 13, 2023 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 RICH PACES, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Public Input. 5 4 *** Commissioners' Comments. 7 5 1.1 Update regarding the "Spring 2023 Climate 10 Outlook" Webinar held on March 9, 2023. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 15 7 action to accept donations totalling $474.00 for the month of February 2023 to be added 8 to the Operating Expense line item 10-642-330. 9 1.3 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 15 action to ratify and confirm "Lessee's 10 Affidavit" for Animal Control vehicles leased from Enterprise Fleet Management. 11 1.4 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 17 12 action to approve the Tower License Agreement with Crown Castle. 13 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 14 action to approve the Interlocal Agreement between Kerr County and Llano County for 15 Jail Services. 16 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 action to approve the AT&T FirstNet User 17 Agreement. 18 1.8 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 19 action to surplus chairs per request from 19 the Maintenance Department. 20 1.9 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 20 action to offer Road & Bridge dump trucks 21 (2) and hydro mulch trailer as trade-ins for new property of the same general type 22 per LCG 263.152. 23 1.10 Discussion regarding format for Elections 21 Workshop scheduled for March 20, 2023. 24 25 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 38 action on request from KPUB to run a Guy Wire 4 from Ingram ISD property to Kerr County property located on Highway 39(ID#16914). 5 Request being presented by Ingram ISD staff. 6 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 41 action to address Kerr County's role in 7 mailbox placement along county roadways. 8 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 69 action to accept quarterly report from the 9 Veteran Services Advisory Committee. 10 1.17 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 74 action to approve Proclamation for Bill 11 Cantrell. 12 1.19 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 77 action on request to use the courthouse 13 grounds for an event on March 29, 2023 recognizing the 50th Anniversary of National 14 Vietnam War Veterans Day. 15 1.18 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 79 action to approve Resolution regarding 16 Dietert Center's Meals on Wheels program. 17 1.12 Passed. 18 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 82 action for the Court to approve a revision 19 of plat for Verde Creek Estates Lots 6, 7, and part of Lot 5. 20 1.14 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 83 21 action to authorize the County Clerk to advertise for bids the 2023 Road Construction 22 Project Phase 2. 23 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 84 action pertaining to the subdivision 24 regulations and water availability requirements. 25 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 2.1 Budget Amendments. 108 4 2.2 Pay Bills. 108 5 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 109 6 2.6 Court Orders. 110 7 3.1 Status reports from Department Heads. 110 8 3.2 Status reports from Elected Officials. 113 9 3.3 Status reports from Liaison Commissioners. 114 10 *** Adjournment. 116 11 *** Reporter's Certificate. 117 12 * * * * * * 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come to order. It 2 is Monday, March the 13th, 2023. It's 9 o'clock in the 3 morning and the Kerr County Commissioners' Court is now 4 in session. If you would, please stand for the prayer 5 and the pledge. 6 (Prayer and Pledge.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. The first thing I do 8 every time we convent one of these is ask you to turn 9 your phones off or to silence so you don't interrupt the 10 proceedings. And the second thing we do for all of our 11 regular meetings is we offer an opportunity for public 12 input. This is your chance to give input to the Court. 13 And we are not permitted to respond, but we are required 14 to listen. So anybody that would like to address the 15 Court, this would be your opportunity. We ask that you 16 go to the podium if you would like to do so, and so the 17 people at home can see you on YouTube. 18 MS. JOHNSON: Okay. Thank you so much. 19 First of all, thank you for allowing the public comment. 20 Thank you for -- 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Time's up. 22 (Laughter.) 23 MS. JOHNSON: Really wasn't going to be that 24 bad. Oh, thank you. Thank you all for serving. And my 25 second is to -- an apology for not taking more interest 6 1 in sharing with you ideas or questions before coming 2 here. So I apologize for that, too. And my comment 3 is -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: If you could identify 5 yourself? 6 MS. JOHNSON: I'm by myself. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Your name? 8 MS. JOHNSON: Oh, I'm sorry. Gayle Johnson. 9 I live in Vicksburg Village. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 11 MS. JOHNSON: So we've been here almost two 12 years. So I came from a county -- to Atascosa County, 13 we moved here from Atascosa County. And we had a lot of 14 change in our election process so I'm interested in that 15 when it comes up and I'll just have some questions. 16 But I wanted to let you know that my husband 17 and I had worked elections there for about ten years as 18 either election judge or clerk or both at particular 19 times. And we found out through some of the changes 20 that our county took turned out to be really good 21 changes. And I know that there was a lot of resistance 22 to some of the things in the beginning, but we saw 23 election integrity improved while we were there with 24 some of the processes that changed. So I'm really 25 excited that you all are having the forum, and if it's 7 1 possible that we could share things or ask questions of 2 the gentleman who's going to be there, I would like 3 to -- I would like for that to be appreciated and 4 considered. And that's all. Thank you. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you, Miss 6 Johnson. Any other public input? There being none, 7 we'll move on to Commissioners' Comments. Commissioner 8 Belew is not here so we'll start with Precinct 2. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, that's great. 10 I'm particularly pleased to be the first one then to 11 congratulate our Sheriff and his department, and 12 particularly the interdiction team for their 13 apprehension of 11 individuals suspected of possession 14 and manufacture of illegal drugs with a street value of 15 eight million dollars. Let's see. And I think they're 16 also suspected for some human smuggling. So I just want 17 to congratulate you, Sheriff Leitha. 18 (Applause.) 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: And you did something 20 for Kerr County. So thank you, sir. 21 Okay. Well, back to the normal stuff. The 22 burn ban is back in effect for Precinct 2. That's what 23 just went off on my phone in silence. 9-1-1 notice. 24 And then I'll move on. I'm very pleased that the road 25 tender for reconstruction was successful and that we're 8 1 going to be able to complete 2.2 miles of Skyline Drive 2 this year. And that's a huge win. Great to see prices 3 coming down and we're going to talk about that later. 4 We'll even potentially be able to do some more since we 5 have some more budget funds available. 6 Let's see. Oh, and we also received a 7 request from the Center Point Volunteer Fire Department 8 to widen the intersection between Skyline and East 9 Kelly. It's very narrow and now there's a manhole cover 10 that's right next to the ditch that the trucks go over 11 all the time so -- and it's a steep edge. So we'll take 12 a look at it. Who knows. 13 I also received a request to widen Verde 14 Park Boulevard. And that's at the intersection of 15 Highway 480. Taking it up with TxDOT. So we'll see 16 what happens there. I suspect -- because it's all in 17 their right-of-way. And again, had a good meeting with 18 TxDOT last week and had followed up on a number of 19 different projects. So some good progress there. 20 And I just want -- I'm pleased to inform the 21 public that we're making good progress on the Center 22 Point sewer project with the road repairs. Some of it 23 was completed and Boxwood is a lot better. So progress 24 is being made. 25 And then, again, just a reminder to the 9 1 public that our election integrity workshop is set for 2 March 20th at 9:00 a.m., right here. And we'll talk 3 more about that later. That's all I have. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Precinct 3. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a lot to add to 6 that. The Center Point sewer project is, like, almost 7 closed. Nicks Road is one of the one's that's been 8 mostly repaired. So it's a good thing. A lot of those 9 people have put up with a lot of headaches for a long, 10 long time. 11 Other than that, I mean, not a whole lot of 12 additional things. Burn ban's on in Precinct 3 and has 13 been. And hopefully we get some rain this week and I'll 14 be able to lift it. That's it. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. Spring 16 break is here. A lot of our kids are out of school and 17 a lot of traveling going about. Hope everybody has a 18 safe, enjoyable spring break. That's all I got. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I really don't have much 20 to add. I had -- we had the opportunity to spend the 21 weekend in Austin on Lake Travis. And what I noticed 22 the most is between here and Travis County, it is much 23 greener. We have had really poor luck this year on our 24 rain. I mean, it was noticeable. You can just drive to 25 Gillespie County and see it get a little bit greener and 10 1 then move from there on up to Blanco County and it's 2 even greener. By the time you get to Travis County, 3 it's green. So with that, we'll pray for rain. As we 4 always do. 5 Okay. With that, we'll move on to our 6 Commissioners' Comments -- oh no, we finished that. I'm 7 sorry. Consideration Agenda. Item 1.1, which is update 8 regarding Spring 2023 Climate Outlook. I think I gave 9 you a segue for that one. 10 MR. THOMAS: Yes, sir, you did. Good 11 morning, Judge. Good morning, Commissioners. So March 12 the 9th, the National Weather Service out of San Antonio 13 and Austin did their spring climate outlook. And we 14 have the video for that. It's about 20 minutes long, 15 but what I want to do is skip through about the first 16 six and a half minutes of it, which is basically 17 historical data for the last three years of La Nina, and 18 we'll move to the -- actually the spring outlook. So if 19 you'll go to six minutes in. 20 (Off the record.) 21 MR. THOMAS: So the video's not going to 22 work. So we're just going to have to use -- I sent them 23 also the PDF so we'll just kind of -- right there. The 24 spring outlook. Back up a couple. 25 So for the spring drought outlook, basically 11 1 what they talked about in the video was that we have 2 moved -- La Nina is basically over, and we're moving to 3 ENSO or a neutral state, and hopefully probably we'll 4 get to a El Nino state later on in the year. 5 So what they're talking about here, the 6 spring drought outlook, the drought status is likely to 7 expand and continue to get a little worse this month. 8 That dark red area is the exceptional drought area and 9 we are -- part of Kerr County is still in that 10 exceptional drought. I think the eastern part of the 11 County is still in exceptional drought. So they do 12 expect the drought to continue to remain in place 13 throughout the spring. Some of the La Nina aspects are 14 going to continue for a little bit longer. Next slide. 15 Soil moisture is drier than normal. I 16 haven't checked the Keetch-Byram scale yet, but we're 17 still pretty dry, obviously. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Same as it was last 19 week. I checked this morning. 20 MR. THOMAS: What was it? 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We're still in the -- 22 MR. THOMAS: Seven hundreds? 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. 24 MR. THOMAS: Oh, okay. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Less than that. We're 12 1 less than six. 2 MR. THOMAS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But right at the edge. 4 MR. THOMAS: Next slide, please. And next 5 one. Let's skip that. That's just a bunch of graphs. 6 So we've got the burn ban on three different 7 precincts -- three precincts right now. They're still 8 talking about an above-normal wild land fire potential, 9 particularly to the west. But the expectation is 10 there's going to be some springs rains that are going to 11 probably alleviate that just a little bit. 12 Next category. It won't be until probably 13 April or May. March is probably going to stay dry. So 14 they talked about El Nino possibly later on developing 15 later in this year. Said it would increase our chances 16 for hurricane season. Atlantic basin hurricanes. We 17 always seem to get a little rain out of those, but I 18 really don't want to see a hurricane. 19 Could increase the chances of weather cooler 20 than normal conditions in Texas this fall and winter, as 21 well as the risk of flash flooding. Next slide. 22 So the temperatures, they're continuing to 23 expect above normal temperatures. Last year was one of 24 the hottest Mays on record. So slightly to -- above 25 normal flash flood risk, particularly in May and June 13 1 for this year, and slightly above normal impacts for 2 severe weather. Fire weather. Again, they're -- we're 3 still in drought conditions so above normal impacts from 4 wild land fires. Next slide, please. 5 That's basically it. So the whole gist of 6 the video is that we are going from La Nina to El Nino, 7 and we're working on -- basically a -- we're right in 8 the middle somewhere between there. We're in the 9 neutral status right now. Still hoping for more rain 10 later on this week, though. I think we got about an 11 80 percent chance on Thursday. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Thank you, Dub. 13 Hopefully, we will get that rain. But I just want to 14 make the public aware. You know, even with a little bit 15 of rain, because of this extended drought and the amount 16 of dead and dry material, litter that we have all over 17 the ground, that fuel is what we call one hour fuel. In 18 this arid environment out here where we have low 19 humidities, that stuff after -- even after a rain, it 20 dries out in one hour and it is susceptible to a serious 21 wildfire. Especially if we get the winds picking up, as 22 we've been seeing so much of here lately. You get a 23 30-mile-an-hour wind and -- 24 MR. THOMAS: You know, they talk about we're 25 probably going to see several days of red flag warnings 14 1 in the next couple months. My -- my deal is just 2 because you can burn doesn't mean you should. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. Part of 4 the thing with that is we put burn bans on a lot. I'm 5 not a real big fan of it, as everyone knows. But 6 whenever we're in the red flag warning it's against 7 State Law to burn, period. And people don't -- people 8 look to our burn ban but don't understand that that one 9 is just kind of the local guide. There's still State 10 Law that requires you to notify people. You can't burn 11 winds over I think 16 miles an hour. Something like 12 that. 13 MR. THOMAS: Can't burn at night. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't burn at night. So 15 it's not just a burn ban people need to look at. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think the safest 17 thing for everybody is to call the Sheriff's Department, 18 the non-emergency line, and inform them that you are 19 going to be burning, if there is no burn ban. And it's 20 also even a good idea to call your local Volunteer Fire 21 Department. Just so they're aware. And far easier to 22 respond if it does get out of control. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One additional comment, 24 Commissioner, is that if you're -- depending on where 25 you live in the county, you also should ask the 15 1 Sheriff's Department to contact neighboring counties. I 2 mean, if you know that like where I live, Kendall and 3 Bandera County need to be notified. And they'll do it. 4 They'll notify the other counties but, you know, it's 5 always good to tell the Sheriff to let them know if 6 you're out west. Kimble, Real, Edwards. You know. 7 Depends on where you are. Okay. 8 MR. THOMAS: That's all I have, Judge. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. Anything 10 else? Thank you. 11 Move on to Item 1.2, which is consider, 12 discuss and take appropriate action to accept donations 13 totalling $474.00 for the month of February of this year 14 to be added to the operating expense line item for the 15 Animal Services. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reagan's not here this 17 morning. And I'll go ahead and -- it's 18 self-explanatory, and make a motion to approve. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 21 approve accepting the $474.00 donation to the Animal 22 Services Department. Any discussion? Those in favor 23 say aye. Opposed? There being none, it carries. 24 Item 1.3 consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action to ratify and confirm Lessee's 16 1 Affidavit for Animal Control vehicles leased from 2 Enterprise Fleet Management. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Again, this one is an 4 affidavit required for the new Animal Control vehicles, 5 and I make a motion to approve and authorize the Judge 6 to sign, which I think he has. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I have. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: So this is another ratify and 10 confirm. And Commissioner Belew, here is -- 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: When you say that 12 you're pointing a finger at me. 13 JUDGE KELLY: We had a deadline and I had to 14 sign it and I signed it, so now I'm asking for 15 forgiveness. Any other discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll make a motion to 17 forgive you. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Is there a second? 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. 20 (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 23 approve the Lessee's Affidavit to ratify and confirm the 24 lease. Any other discussion? Those in favor say aye. 25 Opposed? There being none, it carries. 17 1 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.4 consider, discuss, 2 and take appropriate action to approve the Tower License 3 Agreement with Crown Castle. Sheriff. 4 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes, sir. Good morning, 5 Court. I'm looking for y'all to give me the approval 6 for the Judge to be able to sign this agreement. It's 7 our Crown Castle tower. Heather has reviewed it. 8 Also, this is a tower we will be doing away 9 with once the infrastructure so it's just kind of like a 10 year by year lease. Once the regular infrastructure is 11 up and going we won't need this one anymore. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And geographically, what area 13 is this? 14 SHERIFF LEITHA: Center Point. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Center Point. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 19 approve the Tower Lease Agreement with Crown Castle. 20 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 21 There being none, it carries. 22 1.5 consider, discuss and take appropriate 23 action for the Interlocal Agreement between Kerr County 24 and Llano County for Jail Services. 25 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. I'm looking for 18 1 y'all's approval to be able to get these services or 2 provide them to them. Our jail count is up but they're 3 looking for some bed space and we have plenty of it so 4 just looking for the Court's approval. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the Interlocal Agreement for jail services with 9 Llano County. Any discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Larry, how 11 close are we to running to capacity? 12 SHERIFF LEITHA: Oh, no. We're about 193 13 so, shoot, we're still about 70 plus beds. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 15 SHERIFF LEITHA: You know, we don't have the 16 staff to do the full -- 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I understand. 18 SHERIFF LEITHA: -- mass but, I mean, we're 19 in real, real good shape right now. We're just trying 20 to pick it up over 200 hopefully. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And we've been -- we've had 22 this agreement with Llano County before. 23 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes, sir. It's just a 24 renewal. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Because I remember signing 19 1 that. 2 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. With that, those in 4 favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, motion 5 carries. 6 Item 1.6 consider, discuss and take 7 appropriate action to approve the AT&T FirstNet User 8 Agreement. Sheriff Leitha. 9 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. I'm looking for the 10 Court to give me approval for the Judge to be able to 11 sign the agreement. I kind of discussed it last time. 12 Heather has reviewed the agreement and I do have the 13 forms for the Judge to sign. And that would be myself 14 and IT switching to AT&T services. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 18 approve the AT&T First Net User Agreement. Is there any 19 discussion? There being -- then those in favor say aye. 20 Opposed? There being none, motion carries. 21 We're going to skip Item 1.7 because that's 22 a timed item at 9:30. We'll come back to it when we get 23 to 9:30. 24 Moving on to Item 1.8 consider, discuss, and 25 take appropriate action to surplus chairs per request 20 1 from the maintenance department. 2 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. The Maintenance 3 Department has given us a list of chairs that need to be 4 surplused. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the surplusing of chairs from the maintenance 9 department. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 10 Opposed? There being none, motion carries. 11 Item 1.9 consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate action to offer Road & Bridge dump trucks, 13 two of them, and a hydro mulch trailer as trade-ins for 14 new property of the same type. Ms. Shelton. 15 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. They want to go ahead 16 and get these on the list to go ahead and offer them for 17 the trade-ins for the new equipment that will be coming 18 in. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 22 approve trading in the dump trucks and the mulch trailer 23 for Road & Bridge. Any other discussion? Those in 24 favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, motion 25 carries. 21 1 Item 1.10 discussion regarding the format 2 for Elections Workshop scheduled for March 20, 2023. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. This is just -- 4 we've already agreed unanimously to hold the workshop on 5 the 20th, which is next week. And so it just behooves 6 the Court to agree to -- is it going to be on YouTube? 7 Is it going to be open to the public? Is there going to 8 be an opportunity for the public to voice their concerns 9 or -- or suggestions? 10 I've had various discussions with Bob Reeves 11 and I know he's working on a presentation that his staff 12 will present the current how things work. And I also 13 have a cyber security expert lined up to come in and 14 talk in general about electronic voting. So, again, I 15 think he is -- how are we going to hold the workshop. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Just like we hold all our 17 workshops, I thought. Why would it be any different? 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Some don't have YouTube 19 and some do get on it. This one has quite a bit of 20 appeal to the public and there's quite a bit of interest 21 on it. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well, first of all, workshops 23 are always open to the public. Just like all -- any 24 type of Open Meetings are open to the public. And I 25 suspect that we'll probably have a pretty healthy crowd 22 1 to come, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: I suspect we will. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And in terms of how the 4 program's going to be conducted, the workshop, I defer 5 to Bob Reeves. As our Tax Collector, he's the head of 6 the elections department. Bob and Nadene, I guess, will 7 put it together. And as far as any outside experts, I 8 would expect that to go through them. Whatever experts 9 they think -- what we don't want to have is a partisan 10 rally. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: This is not partisan. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, it sounds like 14 you're asking is it going to be recorded and available 15 later -- 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- to all the 18 taxpayers. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: I know there's a lot of 20 people that can't attend at 9:00 a.m. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem 22 but -- we rarely put it on YouTube but I don't have a 23 problem with this one being on YouTube. You know, I do 24 have -- I mean format wise, workshops are intended for 25 us primarily. If we're going to do a long public 23 1 meeting, we usually do those different. Commissioner 2 Moser did a lot of those along the way. Others we've 3 done on Animal Control. If we want to have a lot of 4 public input and talking, that's usually done in a 5 different format than a workshop. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and we do them out at 7 the Youth Event Center. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, the Youth Event 9 Center. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you got PowerPoint 12 to whatever it's -- and town hall style. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. A workshop is 14 different. But when we've had them out there, what 15 we've discovered is we attempted to put them on YouTube 16 and stuff, the sound is terrible and it's -- you know, 17 you try to view it, it's a waste of time almost. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm not real in 19 favor of having just a whole lot of speakers. I mean, 20 just -- other than -- I mean whoever you -- you want to 21 add one, whoever is invited is fine. But just to have a 22 lot of question and answers and all that, because it's 23 not an agenda item and we can't do that, I don't think, 24 really, I mean to start discussing as a Court. I mean 25 we never have. 24 1 MRS. STEBBINS: So you can hold it like 2 other workshops and -- and have somebody come educate 3 y'all or a presenter come that Commissioner Paces has 4 invited. You can do that. And it's just up to y'all 5 how you want to conduct the meeting like other meetings. 6 There's nothing in your rules that prohibits you from -- 7 from having public comment during your workshops. 8 I think that y'all have managed your 9 workshops in a different way because, like you said, 10 it's for y'all to generally be able to conduct business 11 and learn or have conversations about particular topics. 12 So it's really up to y'all how you want to conduct this 13 meeting. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I see it basically as a 15 workshop is to inform us. And that's for us to gather 16 information and get comfortable with what conclusions we 17 may come to about the issue. And then there's the issue 18 of a public meeting. This seems to be the next 19 political issue de jour, so seems like we ought to break 20 this thing into two parts. One for the workshop for us 21 to get up to speed, and then another one for the public 22 meeting where the public comes and presents to us how 23 they want us to deal with it. That would be my 24 observation. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, for my part of it 25 1 I'm -- I want to see what happens before I decide if we 2 take step two when I see how safe Kerr County's voting 3 is and if there's anything to worry about. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Well, but I think -- I think 5 there is widespread public concern already. And so why 6 postpone it? Let's just go ahead and do the workshop. 7 I have no problems with putting it on YouTube. 8 Recording it so that people can see what -- what we were 9 told. But in terms of public input, the public 10 obviously is going to want to offer input and we 11 probably will do that at a public meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Bob, do you have any 13 input? 14 MR. REEVES: Good morning. I'm here to 15 present what the Court would like to be presented on 16 Monday. My biggest question, number one, is how much 17 time are we allocating for this meeting so I know, do 18 you get the Reader's Digest condensed version or do 19 you -- do you want the original novel, if you will? 20 Simply meeting with Commissioner Paces, we 21 were talking about some of the things that come up, some 22 of the parts of basically a who, what, where of the 23 election process could -- each one of these could go an 24 hour. I mean, I'm taking the information from seminars 25 and conferences that we attend and if I break it down, 26 1 each one of those could go an hour and these conferences 2 are two and three days long. I don't think we want to 3 do that. But how much information do you want? 4 I've also lined up representatives from our 5 system to be here on Monday as well to present to the 6 Court. So I'm kindly putting it back in your court, 7 gentlemen. No pun intended. But what do you want? How 8 long are we going to allocate the time so I know how to 9 make my presentation? 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: I kind of think we 11 should delegate about three hours to this. Maybe your 12 team, and if you want to include Hart in it. The first 13 two hours. And my expert, maybe give him an hour. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Time is -- that's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: And if they go over, 16 that's fine with me. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My biggest thing is I 18 want to get out of the workshop is it was alleged, 19 basically, that our voting machines could be tampered 20 with. I want -- that's what I care about. And, you 21 know, the way I look at it is it's a combination of the 22 speaker and what Commissioner Paces said. I'd like to 23 have that guy tap into our machines. If he says it can 24 be done, let's have him do it. And if it -- he can 25 either be saying the truth or he wasn't saying the 27 1 truth. That's what I want. That's the -- you know, to 2 me what I would like to get out of this. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I agree with that a 4 hundred percent. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If he can demonstrate 7 it, let's make it happen. 8 JUDGE KELLY: But here -- here's what my 9 concern is. We need to satisfy the public's interest to 10 know what's going on with our election system. And the 11 Reader's Digest version may not be enough to satisfy 12 their appetite for what they need to know. And as much 13 as we may want to try to trim this thing down to a 14 couple hours, two or three hours, if we need to take 15 longer, we need -- I would recommend that we take as 16 long as we need so that when we have the public meeting, 17 we have the background to be able to discuss with the 18 public the information that we have heard. 19 If we haven't heard it, then it's going to 20 be for the first time with them present and wanting to 21 speak. They need to be able to process what we're 22 hearing and what we're learning before we have a public 23 meeting. That would be my -- my recommendation. 24 And so, I'm not trying to stretch us out 25 into a three-day workshop, Bob, but I'm saying it may 28 1 take more than a couple hours to do this. This may be 2 at least a half a day. That's three hours. And if 3 we -- if we have to go over and come back, if that's 4 what we need to do in order to do this topic, this 5 subject justice, then that's what I would recommend that 6 we do. 7 So I would say let's look at it for at least 8 a half a day and leave the afternoon open so that -- and 9 that means we may have to work with the juvenile docket. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: We may have some set already 11 that day. I'll -- I'll look. 12 MR. REEVES: So whatever the Court would 13 desire, I'm here. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I may not be thinking 15 this through enough, but I don't see beyond what 16 Commissioner Letz has said what other issues there are. 17 Can you tell us? 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I think it would 19 be very beneficial to the public to understand the full 20 process. You know, from the poll books and whether we 21 have electronic poll books or we print out hard copies 22 30 days prior to the election. That sort of thing. You 23 know, who -- who is updating them? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You're talking about 25 learning -- teaching the process -- 29 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I -- 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- about when there's a 3 mail-in ballot and stuff like that? That's a whole -- 4 that's an educational seminar. We're trying to get to 5 whether or not we have secure elections here. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: There are potential 7 vulnerabilities throughout. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. Can you give me 9 a list of the top three? Now, the one was can we hack 10 the machines? 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Machines. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What are the next two? 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: Mail-in. And probably 14 the last one is the poll books. I think we had some 15 interest in the public to speak. Should we let them do 16 that now? 17 JUDGE KELLY: Miss Johnson has already 18 spoke. She's the only one that signed up. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh, so nobody else 20 signed up. Okay. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: Also, some of the education 22 that you might get will need to be done in Executive 23 Session because especially if it's Hart, our vendor, 24 coming to talk to y'all about the security of their 25 system, that will need to be done in Executive Session. 30 1 So some of your education may not be something -- will 2 certainly not be something that you can leave Executive 3 Session and share with the public. 4 JUDGE KELLY: It makes me nervous about 5 bringing in outside experts that are not under the 6 auspices of the Elections Department. 7 MRS. STEBBINS: And they will not be 8 permitted to be in any Executive Session. If they make 9 a presentation to the Court, from what I understand from 10 Commissioner Paces is it will be similar to 11 presentations that he has made in other places that you 12 can find on YouTube. And he'll be able to show you how 13 he's tapped into or hacked other types of systems, but 14 they have yet to have access to the type of system that 15 we have. So that -- that will be -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Did you watch it on Senator 17 Hall's program? 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's one of them. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's part of it. 20 That's -- I want -- I want Bob to be in charge to tell 21 us nonpartisan, neutral -- 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, it -- that 23 doesn't make it partisan. It just means he was an 24 expert that Senator Hall invited to testify in front of 25 our state legislative session. But that doesn't make it 31 1 partisan. This should be an issue that concerns every 2 citizen, regardless of party. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. Absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: You know, we all want 5 to just know that our elections are fair, transparent, 6 and that the results we can trust. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, if you just have 8 the vendor speak -- if the vendor talks, that's 9 partisan. If the guy says he can hack the machine 10 talks, that's -- everybody has an angle. 11 JUDGE KELLY: To hack the machine, I want to 12 see what he can do. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what I want. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: He's actually a 15 democrat. And he -- that's -- so, you know, when you 16 talk -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: I don't care what they are. 18 My point is -- 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: He changed affiliation. 20 JUDGE KELLY: But our election process is 21 being criticized. And I want to put those accusations 22 to rest. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I said. The 24 accusation was that our machines can be hacked. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Well -- 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if that's true -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm not the one who 3 made that accusation. I haven't made that accusation. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you said -- kind 5 of between you and the lady that spoke, yeah, 6 Commissioner, you did. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: No. I said -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said the Hart -- 9 (Court Reporter raising hands.) 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- voting machine -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said the Hart 12 graphic machines are vulnerable. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: I did not specifically 14 say -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the lady said -- 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- they have never 17 been -- they have never been audited by a third party. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Let's not quibble. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: So that's what I said. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the point to me. 21 Is that -- that was the impression that the public got, 22 that I certainly got. And Commissioner Belew and 23 Commissioner Harris got. So I mean, you know, it's the 24 nod of agreement. So that's what needs to be addressed. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 33 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know how we 2 do that. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the way I think we do it 4 is we do it under Bob Reeves' supervision. That's how 5 we do it. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now, as far as the 7 other part of it, like chain of custody, those kinds of 8 issues, then you're really talking about an educational 9 seminar versus a workshop. This is a workshop to see 10 that our elections are safe here. I want to know that. 11 I think everybody up here -- everybody here wants to 12 know that. That our -- my vote is safe. 13 But if we have -- if we need to go through 14 chain of custody for mail-in ballots, I mean -- I keep 15 wanting to call you Commissioner Reeves -- Bob Reeves 16 has shown me in the back room how it works and everybody 17 can be shown that and there are things you can -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: Safeguards. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. There's a lot of 20 safeguards in there. But there are rules that apply in 21 the State of Texas, there are rules that apply in this 22 County, and people can look those up. And that's an -- 23 I think that's an educational process versus let's see 24 if we're at risk, and if we are, let's seal it up. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. I think 34 1 it would be easy to say that all five of us, and plus 2 the whole County, would like to say that Kerr County's 3 election process is as safe as they come and put any -- 4 all the rest the rest to rest. Whatever accusations or 5 what have you. That we can go vote and our vote is 6 counted and not worry about it. So let's -- let's try 7 to accomplish that and go forward. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But I think if we do 9 the thing you were talking about, Judge, where we have 10 sort of a Town Hall Meeting, you go through every aspect 11 of what we do with elections here, would be profitable 12 to every voter in Kerr County. But as far as taking 13 this workshop and expanding that into -- from the 14 Reader's Digest version to the full novel, I don't see 15 that. But helping people understand how it works and 16 how our vote -- how your vote stays safe whether you do 17 it electronically, paper, or whether it's scanned, 18 whether you mail it in, that's more of an educational 19 process. That's my view of it. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the accusation has been 22 made and there's going to be a public meeting at some 23 point. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: That seems inevitable to me. 35 1 And so, that accusation has called in question the 2 integrity of our election process here. And so we've 3 turned to our elections -- the head of our elections 4 department, our Tax Assessor-Collector, to come show us 5 the process and let us conclude for ourselves, do we 6 feel like it's safe and proper or not. Because we're 7 responsible to the people for that. 8 And then we -- there's going to be a public 9 meeting where they can air whatever they want, and 10 accuse what -- however they want to, but that should be 11 a different process. We need to, first of all, as a 12 Court, hear from the head of our Elections Department 13 teach us how -- how it's done. And whether or not we 14 have a problem. 15 MR. REEVES: Might I make a suggestion on 16 how we can handle this? County Attorney has indicated, 17 and I have heard this many times before, that much of 18 what we're talking about should be first in Executive 19 Session because of security. Why don't we bring the 20 people I've contacted from Hart who said they'd be here, 21 then present what they have in Executive Session to you. 22 Let the consultant present to us, because frankly, I 23 want to hear it, too. Part of security is learning how 24 to prevent. So I'd like to hear that. 25 Then we can come out if the Court feels that 36 1 what's been presented in Executive Session is suitable 2 for the public to hear, and with concurrence from the 3 County Attorney, then we can present there. I kindly 4 liken it to the security procedures I may take when I 5 have to make the daily run to the bank. I don't 6 necessarily like to advertise which way we go, what we 7 do, how we do it. But I would certainly present that to 8 the Court as well. 9 And if there's a consultant to say here, 10 that's how you go get robbed going to the bank, I'd like 11 to have that said in Executive Session so we could cure 12 it and not say how it was going to happen. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So you don't want us to 14 educate the people on how to corrupt the system. 15 MR. REEVES: Are we talking voting or are we 16 talking about our trip to the bank? 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, same thing. 18 COMMISSIONER REEVES: I agree. We've got to 19 protect the security info. There's a fine line between 20 security and transparency, where my office and you as a 21 Court, we all have to do that. Part of its security is 22 to protect the integrity of it. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Wherever we can, we 24 have to encourage transparency and be as open as we can. 25 The only other question, you know, Commissioner Letz, 37 1 you talk about having the expert actually see if he can 2 hack a machine. I don't know if Hart will allow that. 3 I know when I talked to Bob, he was not planning to 4 bring any machines to our workshop or anything. Hart 5 has never allowed anyone to -- to look at their system. 6 It's truly a black box. And I suspect if you ask them, 7 they're going to continue to tell you that. But I'm 8 happy to bring in -- have a go at it. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, this much is true. We 10 need to have a workshop. We need to have a discussion. 11 We need to get comfortable ourselves and we need to be 12 able to reassure the public how the process works. And 13 maintain adequate governmental security. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Couldn't agree more. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we can get there. 16 It's difficult for me to see how you can solve a whole 17 lot. If Hart says you can't use the machine and the guy 18 says he can hack them, I don't know how you cross that. 19 I mean -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You can't do it during 21 an election because you get arrested then. 22 (Laughter). 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure where we go 24 with this other than -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think at the very 38 1 least, we have to initiate this discussion. This 2 discussion has to take place. It has to take place at 3 this bench right here and it has to take place with the 4 public. And we gotta figure out the steps to get there. 5 And a workshop, to me, is our logical first step. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Let's try it and see what we 8 can do. Sheriff? 9 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yeah. With that, Judge, 10 just like y'all considered the space, I can assure you 11 it's probably going to be full. And I know Monday, 12 Tuesday there's district court. It's going to be on 13 YouTube, you know, that we have plenty of place to put 14 people. 15 MRS. GRINSTEAD: The courtroom's already 16 been reserved. 17 SHERIFF LEITHA: Oh, it has? Okay. Good. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Take a breath. 19 Let's go back to the 9:30 item, which is 20 Item 1.7 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 21 on the request from KPUB to run a Guy Wire from Ingram 22 ISD property to the Kerr County property located on 23 Highway 39. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I don't see them. 25 JUDGE KELLY: I saw them -- this is the 39 1 property we bought for the West Kerr County Annex. The 2 acre and a half right beside Ingram Tom Moore High 3 School. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Trey Whitten and Don 5 May. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is this a rental or is 7 it a -- 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right there. It's my 9 understanding, and I haven't talked to either one of 10 them, it's my understanding it's right there at the 11 corner of the Ingram High School, Ingram Tom Moore High 12 School, and right next door to the entrance to their 13 property. They want to run a Guy Line from a pole. The 14 Guy Line is going to be on our property. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I went out there and walked it 16 and talked to the contractor. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Don May. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, he was there. That was 19 his name. I forgot it. That's who it was. I walked it 20 with my dog. She approved by the way. But I walked it, 21 and telephone pole right there. And I walked through 22 there and just need to run a Guy Wire. And if we have 23 to relocate it later, they seemed cooperative to do 24 whatever we need to do. We're just trying to make it -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it doesn't 40 1 interfere with the potential use of that property. 2 JUDGE KELLY: No, no. In fact, we can't 3 find the property corner. We've been looking for it. 4 We think we know where it is. We're going to have to 5 clear out some brush to find it. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You've been talking to 7 the right guys? 8 JUDGE KELLY: Huh? 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Are you making sure 10 they're talking to the right guys? We don't know where 11 the property line is. Is it on our property, for sure? 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 13 JUDGE KELLY: This is at the front. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, it's at the 15 front. 16 JUDGE KELLY: It's where that -- where the 17 cedar break is at the back that we don't know exactly -- 18 we can't find the pin yet. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, let me tell you. 20 I've rented spaces for a Guy Wire. It's not cheap. So 21 I hope they understand they can be charged for this. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Pump your brakes 23 there. You know the kind of deal we got on their old 24 administration building. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that. I 41 1 understand that. But I'm just telling you in the real 2 world and the business world, you pay $350 to have your 3 Guy Wire posted someplace every month and maybe more. 4 So it is a value. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Of course it is. So 6 is our rent free administration building. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: It's not free. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It's not free. 9 Exactly. On this agenda item, I move for approval. 10 JUDGE KELLY: And I'll second. Since I 11 walked it, I'll second it. Any other discussion? Those 12 in favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, it 13 passes. 14 The next item is timed at 10 o'clock so we 15 will take a break and recess. Come back at 10 o'clock. 16 (Recess) 17 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come back to order. 18 Item 1.11 the timed item at 10 o'clock. Consider, 19 discuss and take appropriate action to address Kerr 20 County's role in mailbox placement along county 21 roadways. Commissioner Harris. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. before we get 23 into this, do we have anybody from the post office? 24 (A lady raised her hand.) 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. Okay. There's 42 1 been a -- we've had several meetings. We had one about 2 a year ago. We got the Postmasters in, Road & Bridge 3 and TxDOT in, and discussed this. Then, what was it, a 4 month ago we had another discussion because our TxDOT 5 supervisor retired and we got a new one in, which is 6 present here, Andres. And we got several Postmasters 7 in, and just trying to talk about different issues. 8 TxDOT is -- Andres can correct me if I'm 9 wrong on anything, but TxDOT is wanting to stop putting 10 mailboxes on their roadways, especially if a person does 11 not have road frontage there. If they're down county 12 road a ways or something and want to put it on those 13 banks of mailboxes, they're not allowing it anymore. 14 Correct? 15 MR. GONZALEZ: Yeah. Just a slight -- it's 16 only for if there's a property that's got frontage into 17 our roadways, always we're going to say yes. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Why don't I get you to go to 19 the podium, identify yourself so that people at home can 20 see you on YouTube. Be a movie star today. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. I think 22 this is what he was dreading. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And let y'all have a 24 conversation so that the public understands what we're 25 talking about. And probably the best place to start is 43 1 why don't you tell us the way that it currently is. And 2 then we can talk about what we want to do to change it. 3 MR. GONZALEZ: Okay. So a long time ago, I 4 guess -- 5 JUDGE KELLY: Identify yourself. 6 MR. GONZALEZ: My name is Andres Gonzalez. 7 I'm the TxDOT Kerville area engineer. I cover Kendall 8 County, Kerr County, Bandera County, Uvalde County. 9 Just getting into the subject, I guess in 10 previous years, you know, way before my current time 11 frame, TxDOT was allowing mailboxes to be placed on 12 TxDOT right-of-way, even if the property owner was not 13 right up against the TxDOT right-of-way, which is, you 14 know, county roadways are, etc. 15 There was a memo sent out last year 16 statewide for TxDOT giving us direction to stop allowing 17 any mailbox to be placed on TxDOT right-of-way if that 18 person did not own property up against the TxDOT 19 right-of-way. So that's -- that's basically the current 20 status of that. I don't know if -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: And so that the public 22 understands, these are those banks of mailboxes that you 23 see there might be 10 or 12 of them and they might live 24 back up a county road. 25 MR. GONZALEZ: Correct. 44 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And so, you know, 2 we're getting some calls and, of course, TxDOT, the 3 State entity, and then, of course, we have the 4 Postmasters, which its representative Gaylynn is here 5 from the Hunt Post Office. And that's, of course, a 6 federal deal. And so a lot of times people are calling 7 us. I don't know if the rest of you commissioners get 8 calls but I know I get lots of calls, and they're saying 9 why don't you do this? We have no regulation in this 10 deal. We don't really have a role. 11 The one time -- and we discussed this with 12 Andres, if they're wanting to get a lot of these banks 13 of mailboxes off their roadways, and they might come to 14 us and say, can you move it to this county road? Then 15 it goes to the Road & Bridge, and our Engineering 16 Department to say well, if that -- do we have a spot 17 that's safe? And safety is always going to be the 18 issue. And then we might allow it. That's the one 19 place that County comes into play pretty much, isn't 20 that right? 21 (Ms. Hoffer and Mr. Hastings nodding head in 22 affirmative manner.) 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You need to nod -- 24 there you go. Thank you, Kelly. But other than that, 25 somebody calls and says hey, I want to put a mailbox up, 45 1 it -- it has to go through y'all. Right, Gaylynn? 2 Gaylynn, why don't you come up to the podium as well 3 and -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: She doesn't want to do that. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. We need to hear 6 from the post office. So come on up. I'm going to drag 7 you up there. 8 MS. HIERHOLZER: Thanks for the spotlight. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Gaylynn, identify yourself and 10 who you are. 11 MS. HIERHOLZER: I'm Gaylynn Hierholzer. 12 I'm the Postmaster from Hunt, Texas. And we have a big 13 bank of boxes, two of them, that Andres was referring to 14 that are on the state highway. And we need to move them 15 off the state highway onto county roadway. It's just 16 kind of been brought to my attention that that's not 17 something that the County usually does, as far as 18 approaches, in maintaining -- if there's any landscape 19 maintaining -- especially the approaches. 20 And there's not really a problem with them 21 moving them, the problem is with the property owners. 22 The homeowners' associations are like, well, I don't 23 want them in front of my house. Well, I don't want them 24 in front of my house. And so we're having a bit of an 25 issue and needed something more official that, yes, they 46 1 can go on the County easement, and that the County will 2 do whatever they need to do to maintain the safety of 3 that approach, and then when the people leave. 4 I've just been -- we've been working with 5 this for probably eight years, trying to get something 6 resolved. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Right. But to understand the 8 issue, we've got to move the mailbox banks off of the 9 TxDOT right-of-ways unless they own adjacent property. 10 MS. HIERHOLZER: Uh-huh. 11 JUDGE KELLY: If they own adjacent property, 12 those mailboxes can stay. And that means adjacent to 13 the right-of-way, TxDOT right-of-way. 14 MS. HIERHOLZER: If they have -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: And then your issue is, if you 16 move them back to -- on the County roads, if you move 17 the mailbox banks back there, then we've got to deal 18 with HOAs and those homeowners and it's a whole -- 19 MS. HIERHOLZER: It's another ball of wax. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir? 21 MR. GONZALEZ: I'd just like to add real 22 quick that the statewide memo from TxDOT was if the 23 mailbox is already in the TxDOT right-of-way, it's 24 grandfathered in. It's like I can keep maintaining 25 that, I just can't take on any new ones. Just to 47 1 clarify the memo and the directions sent out statewide. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me make a comment 3 though. The issue on putting them on the County 4 right-of-ways is it can degrade the County right-of-way. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're -- we're not 7 part of this deal. We shouldn't be. The taxpayers 8 shouldn't have to pay for a mailbox because an HOA 9 doesn't want to put it over there. I mean that's point 10 blank to me. I mean, the only mailboxes that would be 11 on County right-of-way is situations where we -- we 12 being postal service, TxDOT and County -- agree on a 13 case by case. 14 But overall, they need to go on the property 15 owners. They need to go down the county road, you know, 16 where the -- you know, if the property or land adjoins 17 the county road, it can go there. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Except -- and Gaylynn 19 I'm glad you're at the podium right now. Because this 20 is one of the many calls I get or lots of the calls I 21 get. That maybe we get a new resident buys property 22 back and y'all don't -- y'all contract out your mail 23 delivery service, and that's -- a guy lives a half mile 24 further than where y'all are delivering now and y'all 25 say no, can't do that. Because that would add down 48 1 there a half mile and a half mile back. A mile every 2 day, and that's not part of that route area's contract. 3 MS. HIERHOLZER: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is that correct? 5 MS. HIERHOLZER: That's exactly right. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And so that's where we 7 get a lot of calls as well. People putting -- why can't 8 I put a mailbox in, County Commissioner? Do something 9 about it. I can't do anything about it. 10 MS. HIERHOLZER: Well, then the homeowners' 11 association will -- I'll speak with them or go to their 12 meetings and I'll tell them you can buy boxes, 13 collection box type things and everybody has a key. You 14 can do that. And they look into the price and go, well, 15 we're not going to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 17 MS. HIERHOLZER: So then we're all kind of 18 stuck. And like you said, in the smaller areas around 19 Kerrville, Center Point, Hunt, Mountain Home, Ingram, 20 most all of the carriers you see out there are highway 21 contract drivers. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 23 MS. HIERHOLZER: And they have very definite 24 items on their contract that they can and cannot do. 25 And to your point, you would think it would be great if 49 1 everybody could have a mailbox in front of their house. 2 But when you get out into the rural areas, where I live 3 at the front and you live ten miles back, my whole -- a 4 contract driver -- although it would be wonderful to 5 have a box in front of your house, it's physically -- 6 you know, financially not feasible to -- to extend each 7 and everybody. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I 9 understand. I mean, as you said, mine's the same 10 situation. Mine's in front of two neighbors down. But 11 you know, it's -- it's still -- it's not -- to me the 12 only role the County has is on County right-of-ways. 13 And a lot of these are on private roads. 14 You know, with HOAs, most of those are 15 private roads. So -- and our current -- I think through 16 the current subdivision rules, new developments are not 17 that much of an issue. Because most of them are 18 requiring the box. 19 MS. HIERHOLZER: The boxes that I was 20 talking about, yes. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's more of the 23 older developments and trying to figure out what to do. 24 And I think some of those HOAs, well, they just need to 25 figure out how to pay for it. I mean -- 50 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let's -- let's try to 2 clarify the issues. Okay. Presently, even though the 3 United States Postal Service provides the box and the 4 address -- 5 MS. HIERHOLZER: We don't provide the box. 6 We just -- 7 JUDGE KELLY: I know. The number. 8 MS. HIERHOLZER: Actually, 9-1-1 does that. 9 We don't -- we do not do any addressing at all, 9-1-1 10 does it. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. But the installation of 12 the mailboxes, I think, is still TxDOT, isn't it? 13 MS. HIERHOLZER: If they're on a state 14 highway, that is correct. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Wait, wait, wait. 16 People put in their own mailbox. What did I miss? What 17 are you saying? 18 JUDGE KELLY: If you live on a TxDOT 19 right-of-way, TxDOT puts in the mailbox. 20 MR. GONZALEZ: Well, we put in the stand. 21 They provide us the mailbox. 22 MS. HIERHOLZER: And -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: When I put -- when I bought a 24 mailbox, I took it -- I had to go to the post office to 25 get -- to get signed up. Then I had to go buy a 51 1 mailbox, and then I had to go to TxDOT and deliver the 2 mailbox and wait for them to come out and put up the -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Post. 4 JUDGE KELLY: -- the post. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You installed his 6 mailbox? 7 MR. GONZALEZ: If he has property right 8 on -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: On 39. And they 10 installed it? 11 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. And -- well -- 12 (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I did my own. I'm on a 14 county road. I did my own. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I bought a mailbox that they 16 wouldn't install. It wasn't standard. So I had to go 17 back and buy another mailbox. I had to take it back to 18 Gibson's to get it swapped out, to get the right 19 mailbox, and then they installed the mailbox. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I know you can't 21 touch anybody's mailbox. 22 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I knocked over a 24 mailbox once upon a time. I had to get the guy's 25 permission to put his mailbox back up, put the post in 52 1 and all the work. Did it all myself. You can't touch 2 somebody else's mailbox. That's why I'm asking. I 3 didn't know TxDOT could install somebody's mailbox. If 4 you can't touch it after you leave, can you -- 5 MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, that's correct. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Now, the problem that we're 7 talking about now are these mailbox banks, is what I'm 8 talking about. 9 MS. HIERHOLZER: Well, and also to go back a 10 little bit, the -- when TxDOT puts the box up as you're 11 saying, they put it on a pole that will break away. If 12 someone hits it, the whole point is safety. I do not 13 want you getting a 4x4 square piece of steel, driving 14 that thing in the ground, filling it up with concrete, 15 and daring somebody to hit your mailbox. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 17 MS. HIERHOLZER: And that's why, so that 18 TxDOT can limit their liability, though the boxes -- 19 they have kind of a U-shape and a bunch of boxes on top, 20 those break away quite easily and nicely and don't hurt 21 anyone versus people that want to come in and really 22 fortify their box so that nobody will ever knock it 23 over. 24 JUDGE KELLY: But we're dealing with a 25 jurisdictional issue and I'm trying to clarify it. On 53 1 those banks -- as I understand it, the existing banks -- 2 and I've used -- and Gaylynn knows where I live, out at 3 Independence and 39, we've got a bank of boxes. And 4 there's probably two dozen of them right there. And 5 what I'm hearing is, TxDOT says you can't do that 6 anymore. But if you've already got it, it's 7 grandfathered. So the public understands that. 8 And so the real issue now is as people come 9 in and they need a mailbox, they're not going to be able 10 to put them on those -- those U-things you're talking 11 about. 12 MS. HIERHOLZER: Those frames. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Those frames. Yeah. The 14 stands. And so they're going to have to figure out what 15 to do with -- how they're going to receive their mail 16 and that's going to be problematic, as you've learned. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Uh-huh. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Because TxDOT says they can't 19 put them out on the -- those -- those stands any longer, 20 so they've got to figure out where they're going to put 21 their mailbox. And that means you're going to have to 22 work with your neighbor, you're going to have to work 23 with the HOA, and we're trying to educate the public 24 that this is not the County's jurisdiction. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 54 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 JUDGE KELLY: And so we've got something 3 that's slipping through the crack here that we're trying 4 to address. That's what we're going to talk about. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is one -- Harley's 6 point about the break away thing. I think that what the 7 Court needs to put -- needs to adopt a safety 8 regulation, in County right-of-ways only, that they need 9 to be break away mailboxes. Because there are some that 10 are being built now that are -- that, you know, a tank 11 wouldn't knock over. They're on a rod and they're 12 safety hazards. 13 And again, we've got to probably grandfather 14 the ones that are there. But we need to -- and I think 15 we have the authority from the safety standpoint to, as 16 long as our right-of-way, to do that. And, you know, 17 Charlie and I have talked about it. Kelly and I are 18 working on a policy and we'll come back another time. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But that is not going 20 to make anybody happy who's concerned with this issue. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, it's a 22 different issue, but -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we're in a position 24 where we're going to make a lot of people not very 25 happy. That's where we are. 55 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, people think 2 we're -- people think we're kicking the can down the 3 road, passing the buck, whatever. But the truth is that 4 there are limitations on every governmental entity. 5 There are limitations on TxDOT. There are limitations 6 on the Federal Post Office, USPS. There's limitations 7 on the County Commissioners' Court. 8 So every once in a while, they bump up 9 against each other. And when they do, people -- it 10 sounds like we're passing the buck. If the regulation 11 says we can't do it, we can't do it. And so what do you 12 end up doing? You have to talk to your neighbor, figure 13 out a compromise, see if you can -- you know, 14 occasionally we have to talk to our neighbors. And we 15 have to make some kind of a compromise or work some kind 16 of -- something out. And people don't like to do that. 17 They like to call and raise hell at Don Harris. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And I recommend you 20 call him first and not me. 21 (Laughter) 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'm pretty sure they 23 do. 24 JUDGE KELLY: But what we're really 25 educating the public is, even when they call the 56 1 Commissioners, regardless of who they call, there's only 2 so much that you can do. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 4 JUDGE KELLY: The County's not obligated to 5 put -- let them use our right-of-way to put those 6 mailboxes in them. I'm not saying it's something that 7 can't be done, but we're not obligated to do it. So 8 they gotta come to us and ask permission and we're 9 probably going to start having these requests. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 11 MS. HIERHOLZER: That's really why I'm here, 12 so that we can kind of get ahead of the game. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 14 MS. HIERHOLZER: And for the County to say, 15 you know, either yes we will -- yes we will under 16 certain circumstances or no not at all. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, are you comfortable we 18 understand the problem now? 19 MS. HIERHOLZER: I -- I don't know. I'm 20 waiting to see if there are anymore questions. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- you 22 know, we look at it as a safety concern largely. And -- 23 and road damage concern. Those are the two things to 24 look at as to where you put them on a County 25 right-of-way. You know, ideally to what the Judge is 57 1 saying and Harley is saying, talk to your neighbor and 2 go -- you know, if you're too far down the road, talk to 3 the neighbor up there and say, hey, can I put a mailbox 4 up here? And that will solve that problem. 5 JUDGE KELLY: No. No, no. There's one more 6 step. See if I've got this right, Gaylynn. You're 7 still going to have to figure out how the mail service 8 carrier is going to deliver to that location. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 10 MS. HIERHOLZER: And you're -- you say 11 neighbors, we're talking about like at Guadalupe Ranch, 12 say, there are hundreds of people out there. And 13 talking to their neighbor, I can barely get them to talk 14 to -- go to their homeowner's association meeting, much 15 less, you know -- unless I go door to door, which I know 16 I can't do. They won't let me on their property. You 17 know, it -- yeah, that sounds wonderful and warm and 18 fuzzy feelings and let's, you know, meet together, but 19 it's just not going to happen. 20 JUDGE KELLY: I was talking about when they 21 come to us and want to put it on the right-of-way. And 22 we decided to say -- but the buck has not completely 23 stopped because they have to figure out how to provide 24 service to that location, which is not currently in 25 their budget. 58 1 MS. HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. And 3 that -- 4 MS. HIERHOLZER: The post office -- 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- that's the 6 complaint calls we get, or I get mostly, I've got 7 property, why can't I put a mailbox there? Postmaster 8 won't deliver there. I can't help that. I can't tell 9 them to extend their service than what they have 10 contracted. How often do y'all look at that and change 11 routes or -- or anything? 12 MS. HIERHOLZER: Not very frequently. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I didn't think so. 14 MS. HIERHOLZER: It's kind of set in stone 15 and unless you get a new subdivision, the highway 16 contract stands. And there's different -- some of them 17 are two years, some are four, some are six, some are 18 eight. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Gotcha. 20 MS. HIERHOLZER: So it's not something 21 that's easily fluctuated. And the mileage -- I'm -- the 22 postmaster is not the one that can decide on a route 23 extension on those highway contract routes. We have to 24 submit all the paperwork to Tennessee. Tennessee 25 decides whether -- you know, site unseen, whether or not 59 1 it should be extended. And I -- that's -- you know, 2 it's kind of out of my hands. 3 JUDGE KELLY: It's one person's government, 4 right? 5 MS. HIERHOLZER: Isn't it? It's just one 6 thing after another. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, some of these 8 calls -- and Gaylynn, I'm -- I know it's -- I'm almost 9 positive it's not coming out of your office. 10 MS. HIERHOLZER: A lot of them are. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You're -- well, no, 12 but the complaint calls to me is well, the post office 13 says call the County and that's where Kelly gets the 14 phone calls and I get the calls. 15 MS. HIERHOLZER: Oh, I don't know if -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know but some -- 17 your cohorts are telling them that. 18 MS. HIERHOLZER: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I think they got 20 my card in there saying call -- or Road & Bridge and 21 they talk to Crystal or Kelly and, you know, we're not 22 in the loop. We can't -- you know, you're the one that 23 decides if you can deliver there or not. 24 MS. HIERHOLZER: Uh-huh. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: TxDOT is the one who 60 1 decides if they can put a new box up on a bank of 2 mailboxes and we're -- we're out of the loop. It's -- 3 we're not a deciding factor, you know. 4 JUDGE KELLY: I know. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I told a lady the 6 other day, I said, you know, we have a Federal 7 Government entity and we have a Texas -- a state entity, 8 and then we're the low man on the totem pole. We're -- 9 we're not -- we can't tell them what to do. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And don't want to try 12 to tell them what to do. 13 JUDGE KELLY: But the thumbnail take away 14 from this whole thing is that if -- if somebody has a 15 mailbox in a bank on a frame in existence right now, 16 TxDOT has grandfathered. Thank you. I think that's an 17 important concession. 18 If you're new and you need a mailbox, you're 19 not going to be allowed to do it that way. People need 20 to know that. And they're going to learn that when they 21 come talk to you, Miss Hierholzer. 22 MS. HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And then what they're going to 24 do is start looking at what's the solution. And if it's 25 going to go through the County, you can come back to 61 1 your Commissioners, who come back to this Court to work 2 with Road & Bridge as to what is safe and what we can 3 and can't do out there or what we should or shouldn't do 4 out there. But at the end of the day, that's not 5 even -- that's not at the end step. 6 The next step is even if we agree to put 7 something on the County right-of-way, and it passes all 8 our smell tests, they still have to work with you on how 9 they're going to get a carrier and get to that mailbox. 10 And that is probably going to go back to Tennessee to 11 get decided. So it's not an easy solution, but that's 12 the road map to get to the solution, right? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And there's one 14 other thing. Private road, which is a majority of the 15 roads, it doesn't come to us ever. It just doesn't. I 16 mean, we have no authority there. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and I was using 18 Independence Lane as an example because that is a county 19 road. 20 MS. HIERHOLZER: Yes. Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Kelly, what are we 23 leaving out, anything? 24 MS. HOFFER: I was just here to beg for 25 County maintenance. 62 1 JUDGE KELLY: No, you -- and educate the 2 public because -- 3 MS. HOFFER: And beg for County maintenance 4 for the boxes that will be moved by TxDOT. That's what 5 I was going to be here for. I was begging and grumbling 6 but -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of them have been 8 agreed to, as I understand it. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Have been looked at. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or looked at. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I know Kelly and 12 Charlie and I and Andres predecessor went and looked at 13 some out 1340, didn't we? And that was in the works. 14 It was in TxDOT'S lap, and then I don't know, 15 predecessor retired and we had to start over. Those out 16 at Hunt that we looked at, Charlie, do you remember? 17 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And, you know, if we 19 could -- we were going to move them off the state 20 highway onto county roads if we found appropriate safe 21 places to do it, and that's where it comes to the County 22 as far as that. 23 MR. HASTINGS: We were -- we looked at that 24 and we were supposed to bring it back to the Court with 25 a report. I can tell you that we've been -- it's been a 63 1 couple years since Marshal Heath with TxDOT asked us to 2 look at this and the Court says work with Road & Bridge 3 and Engineering. 4 In that couple years we've been very 5 enlightened. We've gone to other counties to see what 6 they're doing and they all say their counties don't 7 install mailboxes, period. They say work with United 8 States Post Office for a detail on -- and because USPS 9 has their own detail on the website. If you're going to 10 do a mailbox, this is what it needs to look like, this 11 is how tall the post needs to be. Don't put boulders 12 and all kinds of stuff around it. 13 And so our recommendation today to the Court 14 would be that the Court adopt a policy that says Kerr 15 County doesn't install mailboxes. Mailbox installation 16 in Kerr County roads would be expected -- is expected to 17 conform to standards set by the United States Postal 18 Service. That they must be mounted on break away posts. 19 And you know, as a matter of public safety, no concrete, 20 brick, iron or other massive mailbox support shall be 21 allowed on a County right-of-way. And again, this is an 22 individual putting up their own mailbox. No 23 installation allowed to interfere with the safety of 24 emergency vehicles. We don't want to mess up our 25 emergency vehicles or the traveling public or the 64 1 function, maintenance, or operation of the county 2 roadway system. 3 And ultimately the relocation of multiple 4 adjacent mailbox installations from state right-of-way 5 to County right-of-way would be forbidden. We don't 6 want the phone calls. We're getting them now and it's 7 not even our problem. They say hey, we want a mailbox. 8 We've never done mailboxes, ever. 9 MS. HIERHOLZER: I don't think they're 10 actually asking you to install the mailbox, I think 11 they're asking you where can we put it? And at this 12 point, I'm not sure if we can -- if they can put it on 13 the County easement or not. I guess that's -- is it -- 14 is it okay? 15 MS. HOFFER: Well, we need to have a 16 location first, and that is up to your office to give a 17 location of where you will deliver. 18 MR. HASTINGS: I would recommend in a 19 situation of Guadalupe Ranch Estates that the HOA has a 20 park about a half a mile from 1340. It might be 21 three-quarters of a mile. And they oughta put all those 22 gangs of boxes right there. 23 MS. HIERHOLZER: Once the public hears that 24 they're grandfathered in -- because I read the memo that 25 Andres put out and down at the bottom it talks about -- 65 1 that's not what I think it means and it says that 2 they're all grandfathered in. And I was like, well, I 3 don't know if that's -- so all the ones in Guadalupe 4 Ranch Estates I think would be grandfathered in. 5 MS. HOFFER: How far is the furthest that 6 you'll go back on a road? Because I heard ten miles. 7 And we have one road that's pretty close to ten miles 8 and then all the rest of them are less than ten miles. 9 So what is the -- 10 MS. HIERHOLZER: It depends on the highway 11 contract and that highway contract is written to deliver 12 boxes on 13 -- FM 1340. 13 MS. HOFFER: No, but I'm talking about when 14 somebody has an individual mailbox on -- 15 MS. HIERHOLZER: Half a mile. 16 MS. HOFFER: -- a road? Half a mile, that's 17 it? 18 MS. HIERHOLZER: Half a mile in, half a mile 19 back. 20 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. So -- 21 MS. HIERHOLZER: And when you start doing 22 extensions, as long as you can do, you know, okay, half 23 a mile and then there's another half a mile and there's 24 another half a mile then -- then you can start 25 delivering down in there. 66 1 But like I said, our hands are tied because 2 it's a highway contract route. It's not a city carrier 3 and it's not a rural route. City carriers and rural 4 routes, we can extend those more easily ourselves. 5 Highway contracts, because it's a contract that's where 6 our hands are tied. 7 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 8 MS. HIERHOLZER: That's why I just wanted to 9 know, can we -- can I allow the customers to put 10 mailboxes on County easement? 11 JUDGE KELLY: Not without permission. 12 MS. HIERHOLZER: Not without permission. 13 MS. HOFFER: But you've got to have a 14 location. You've gotta pick the location. That's not 15 up to us to pick it. 16 JUDGE KELLY: The landowner has to agree to 17 it. Unless it's in our right-of-way. If it's in our 18 right-of-way, we have to agree to it. But the County 19 doesn't have any -- would not -- we're going to have to 20 adopt a policy. But I'm with Charlie. I don't want to 21 do any installations. And I want to adopt whatever 22 TxDOT's doing and do the same thing basically. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to murky this up a 24 little bit more. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Let's get clear water, right? 67 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Most of our -- or 2 I won't say most. A high percentage of our 3 right-of-ways are prescriptive easements. That 4 prescriptive easement is only for a road. It doesn't 5 cover a mailbox. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you get permission of 8 the landowner to put it. Because we came across this on 9 Elm Pass about -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: I'm pretty sure -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- how far that 12 prescriptive easement went and it hits the road, period. 13 There's nothing about that about mailboxes. 14 JUDGE KELLY: That is correct. And I think 15 the mailboxes at Independence Lane and 39 were probably 16 put there by permission by the landowner at that time. 17 Because that's a prescriptive easement. 39 is a 18 prescriptive easement the whole way. 19 MS. HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this just makes it 21 even worse. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Throughout the County, 23 people have their mailboxes on the other person's 24 property, whether by permission or by -- you know, 25 somebody else bought the property and they thought that 68 1 the edge of the road was their property and Kelly can 2 tell you that they run all which way and so. But if 3 somebody new comes in and replats, all of a sudden you 4 realize that your mailbox has been on somebody else's 5 property and has been always. That happens all over the 6 place. 7 JUDGE KELLY: But the take away being there 8 is you tell people that they need to have a solution, 9 they need to have it wrapped with a nice pretty bow on 10 it, and bring it to us. Because we don't want to get 11 down in all of this mud. 12 MS. HIERHOLZER: Okay. 13 JUDGE KELLY: But -- and -- but they've 14 got -- they've got to meet each requirement as they go 15 through it. And there's nothing we can do about it. 16 And at the end of the day, ultimately it's going to be 17 your -- your jurisdiction on whether or not there's 18 going to be extended mail service out there to where 19 they are. So it starts with you. It goes through all 20 of us and it comes back and it ends with you. 21 MS. HIERHOLZER: Okay. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So that's clear as mud, right? 23 MS. HIERHOLZER: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One last final thing. 25 Andres, I just want to thank you for coming. I think -- 69 1 I mean almost everyone on the court has met with him one 2 time or another. And very happy to have you here. A 3 new area engineer. You've been very easy to work with 4 and we appreciate that. 5 MR. GONZALEZ: Thank you, guys. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And Gaylynn, thank you 7 for coming in too. 8 MS. HIERHOLZER: Oh, absolutely. Like I 9 said, I was just trying to muddy it up more. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I think we did. 11 But a lot of points were brought up that I think a lot 12 of the public did not realize. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Charlie, with your 14 permission I'm going to go to the 10:30 item because we 15 got the room packed at the back. 16 MR. HASTINGS: That's fine. No problem. 17 JUDGE KELLY: So let's move on to item 1.16, 18 which is to consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 action to accept quarterly report from the Veteran 20 Services Advisory Committee. Gary Noller. 21 MR. NOLLER: Good morning. My name is Gary 22 Noller, 140 Ray Drive, Center Point, Precinct 3. 23 Once again, I would like to thank the 24 Commissioners' Court for their support of veterans in 25 Kerr County. We see people with bumper stickers that 70 1 say "Support the troops." We see people walk up and 2 say, "Thank you for your service." But one of the ways 3 you show that in tangible matter is through the 4 employment of a credited Veteran Service Officer of this 5 County. And luckily, we have an excellent service 6 officer in this County. 7 The committee has met with Jenna several 8 times over the past quarter. She gives us her report, 9 her performance report. We look at the performance 10 reports. We see she's doing outstanding work and 11 continues to do outstanding work. And I certainly 12 encourage her to keep it up. We know she will, but 13 it's -- sometimes can become daunting. 14 And one of the things that happened, and I 15 think I mentioned it last quarter was there was a 16 federal law that was passed called PACT Act, P-A-C-T 17 Act, and there's a big, long name to it and I'm not 18 going to say what it is, but it has a big long name to 19 it. 20 And one of the requirements of the PACT Act 21 was that it was -- veterans had to be informed of this 22 change in the law. And usually stuff happens and the VA 23 doesn't do a very good job of marketing it so veterans 24 show up 15, 20, 30 years later and say, well, how come 25 nobody ever told me that I might be eligible for those 71 1 benefits? Well, that was improved a little bit. 2 So in the month of February, I got not one 3 but two letters from the Department of Veterans Affairs. 4 And I know Jeff's got one there, I just saw it. And the 5 big title across the top says, You may qualify for 6 disability benefits. And this is particularly related 7 to toxic exposures. Could be in Vietnam, could be in 8 Iraq, Afghanistan, anywhere in the world. And so they 9 give you a whole lot of explanation. 10 But along in there it says, If you need help 11 to find out whether you qualify or can use the benefits, 12 go to a service officer. So Jenna, in the month of 13 January had 26 new clients show up. That's more than 14 one a day. There's usually about 22 working days in a 15 month. 26 new people showed up. And a lot of that was 16 a result of this. So nothing ever stays the same. 17 Things are always changing. 18 The number of veterans is going down. 19 Mainly because the big bulk of veterans from World 20 War II, Korea and Vietnam are 75 years old. That's how 21 old I am. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We're aging out. 23 MR. NOLLER: Yes. And there's never been a 24 horse as big. But the other thing, the paradox is that 25 the demand for VA benefits is going up. So how can your 72 1 veteran population be going down but your demand for 2 benefits can be going up? It's because veterans are 3 better informed now. Particularly the younger veterans. 4 The veterans that get out today are going to know ten 5 times more, a hundred times more about the benefits they 6 might receive than those of us who got out 50 years ago 7 because they just simply didn't tell us. It was up to 8 us to find out. So that's always -- my belief is that 9 it's the right thing to do. 10 For the people at home, if you're at the bus 11 station and you wave when they go away to the military, 12 you need to be standing back there when they come home, 13 and give them the assistance they might need and do it 14 through your County service officer. So thank you very 15 much for that. 16 But just a couple numbers. The year ending 17 September 30th, the annual Federal money, tax free money 18 that came to veterans and dependents and survivors in 19 Kerr County that was generated through the work of the 20 County service officer, annualized $1.9 million. End of 21 the year, December 31st, $2.1 million. So there is an 22 economic benefit that comes to this County and that's 23 just through the service officer employed by this 24 county. That number's gonna be bigger because veterans 25 can file their own claims if they know how to do it. 73 1 Veterans can go to other service officers, such as Texas 2 Veterans Commission that has an officer here in Kerr 3 County or they can go wherever they want to. So the 4 economic impact to Kerr County of the tax free income 5 that can be spent in the community is -- is quite large. 6 And it's always a case where I'm most proud 7 when the Veterans Service Officer does something for the 8 person that's the poorest person out there. The richest 9 person in the world gets a thousand dollars. So what. 10 The poorest person living in Kerr County gets $500 for a 11 month. They're jumping up and down all over the place 12 because that means they can put a battery in their car 13 and gas in their car this month. So that's all I got to 14 say. Any questions on the report? Thank you very much. 15 JUDGE KELLY: We got several items on the 16 agenda related to the VSO. The second one, which is 17 1.17 -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, should we -- 19 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, yeah. We should accept 20 your report. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 22 accept the veterans report. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: We have a motion and a second 25 to accept the veterans service report as presented. Any 74 1 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 2 carries. 3 Item 1.17 consider, discuss and take 4 appropriate action to approve the Proclamation for Bill 5 Cantrell. 6 MS. MARSH: Bill, would you join me at the 7 podium, please. Good morning, Judge. Commissioners. 8 I'm Vicki March, Colonel of the United States Marine 9 Corps Retired, and I'm the vice chair of the Kerr County 10 Veterans Services Advisory Committee. And we're here 11 today to honor one of our own. Commander Bill Cantrell. 12 And so I'm going to begin with the Resolution. 13 Recognition of Commander William A. (Bill) 14 Cantrell, U.S. Navy Reserve. Veterans Services Advisory 15 Committee. 16 WHEREAS, awarded the Distinguished Flying 17 Cross for Valor while serving as a U.S. Navy aircraft 18 pilot and squadron commander in the Vietnam War; and 19 WHEREAS, beginning in 2009 in Kerr County, 20 founded the Corporal Jacob C. Leicht Memorial American 21 Veterans (AMVETS) Post 1000 in Kerrville; and 22 WHEREAS, championed the construction of 23 Freedom's Path Apartments on the campus of the Kerrville 24 Veterans Affairs Medical Center; and 25 WHEREAS, led the effort to establish a 75 1 renewed interest in a Veterans Day Parade; and 2 WHEREAS, joined with other Kerr County 3 Veterans to complete the expansion of the Kerr County 4 Veterans Memorial at the County Courthouse; and 5 WHEREAS, promoted the appointment of a 6 Veterans County Services Officer in Kerr County; and 7 WHEREAS, served as a member of the county 8 Veterans Services Advisory Committee for three years; 9 and 10 WHEREAS, continues to offer example and 11 advice and support to improve the lives of veterans of 12 Kerr County. 13 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Kerr 14 County Commissioners' Court does hereby thank and 15 recognize Bill Cantrell for his dedication, leadership, 16 and expertise in bringing about many needed changes that 17 provide long-term benefits to Kerr County veterans and 18 citizens. His efforts make Kerr County a veterans 19 friendly place to live. 20 Adopted this 13th day of March, 2023. Rob 21 Kelly, County Judge. And signed by the four 22 Commissioners as well. 23 JUDGE KELLY: I've got the Resolution right 24 here. We're going to bring you in for a photograph. I 25 want to make sure that everybody gets introduced. 76 1 And you met Vicki Marsh, Colonel Marsh. And 2 we've got Jeff Harris here. He's on the advisory 3 council. And Mark Del Toro. There he is. And I 4 don't -- while I'm not on the council, but we have 5 General Oates, which is in the back of the room. 6 GENERAL OATES: Thanks, Judge. 7 JUDGE KELLY: And last but not least, first 8 in our hearts, is our own veterans services officer, 9 Jenna Sanchez. 10 (Applause) 11 JUDGE KELLY: So what I'd like to do is to 12 come forward. This is the photo op. 13 (Photographs taken.) 14 JUDGE KELLY: What we're going to do is I'm 15 going to hand you the Proclamation and shake your hand. 16 Now look at the camera. 17 (Applause) 18 JUDGE KELLY: We met last week at the 19 council. And I'm the liaison to the Court. And what a 20 great group of fellows. Let me tell ya. 21 I'm going to go ahead and take an item out 22 of order. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move -- do I make a 24 motion on that? 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 77 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We're going to ratify 4 and confirm what we just did. Got a motion and a 5 second. Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 6 carries. 7 And then the last veterans related item on 8 the agenda is Item 1.19, which is to consider, discuss 9 and take appropriate action on the request to use the 10 courthouse grounds for an event on March 29th of this 11 year, recognizing the 50th Anniversary of National 12 Vietnam War Veterans Day. General Oates. 13 GENERAL OATES: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE KELLY: I want to put you on the 15 podium so people can see you. And I want to personally 16 thank you for the emblem that you gave me for my car. I 17 sat beside General Oates at a presentation for Memorial 18 Day last year and he was talking to me about my service 19 and I was an air defense artillery officer. 20 Well, I mean, the next week I get an emblem 21 for my car with a cross cannons and a rocket on it. 22 Thank you. 23 GENERAL OATES: Commissioners, thanks. My 24 names is Mike Oates. I live on Lower Turtle Creek in 25 Precinct 2. 50 years ago Vietnam War ended. I don't 78 1 need a history lesson to remember how poorly our 2 citizens treated those soldiers on their return. So we 3 have an opportunity. It's never too late to recognize 4 their service. March 29th is the designated day. 5 Appreciate the council's support on just saying thanks 6 to those that are still with us that answered the bell 7 and served their country in Vietnam. 8 So appreciate that very much, Judge. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And this would be at noon, 10 from 12:00 to 12:30, and we'll do it out here at 11 Veterans Display. And this is not necessarily to 12 commemorate the war, Lord knows we're not trying to do 13 that, but it is to honor those that have served. So 14 we're asking for permission to use the courthouse 15 grounds. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I move that we let them 17 use the courthouse grounds to recognize the Vietnam 18 Veterans that you named. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 21 second. Is there any discussion? Those in favor say 22 aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 23 Thank you all. Thank you all for your 24 service. 25 GENERAL OATES: Thank you all. 79 1 MS. SANCHEZ: Judge, I just wanted to ask, 2 can we use IT to record the -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 4 MS. SANCHEZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What time did we say 6 that was going to be? 7 JUDGE KELLY: Noon. Should last about 30 8 minutes. 9 But I'll also take one other one out of 10 order, which is actually due now because we are past 11 10:30, but that's item 1.18, which is to consider, 12 discuss and take appropriate action to approve a 13 Resolution regarding Dietert Center's Meals on Wheels 14 program. Brenda Thompson. 15 MS. THOMPSON: Good morning. We're just 16 going to keep the good things going here. March for 17 Meals has -- is in celebration of the Older Americans 18 Act in 1965 that was reaffirmed in 1972 to cover the 19 Meals on Wheels programs. Dietert Center has been doing 20 the Meals on Wheels program for -- we're on our 53rd 21 year of doing it. We started it over on the little rock 22 house over on Jefferson Street, and doing it very small 23 with volunteers, and it's just stayed steady. 24 Last year, we provided nearly 65,000 meals 25 to our local Kerr County citizens, home bound seniors. 80 1 And this year we're on the mark to do the same thing. 2 We have about 200 volunteers that provide those 3 deliveries to our home bound seniors. And not only are 4 they getting the hot meal, they're getting a warm smile, 5 a check -- a welfare check on them. 6 And it is heartwarming to see so many of 7 those people waiting for us to show up that day. 8 Peaking through the window or meeting us at the front 9 door. I know Commissioner Harris has been there. Judge 10 Kelly has been. And we're going to do our community 11 champions week the 20th -- next week. The 20th through 12 the 24th. And we've already got Judge Kelly on our list 13 of participants that ride along. 14 It is an eye-opening experience if you've 15 never been able to do that. Come join us, because you 16 do get to see firsthand what's happening out in the 17 county. And there's no -- no income limits or 18 restrictions, so you get to see all sorts of homes that 19 we go to. 20 So this proclamation just helps us proclaim 21 that this is the 21st Annual March for Meals Month. And 22 supporting our Dietert Center Meals on Wheels program. 23 JUDGE KELLY: I can't emphasize how 24 important this really is. For some of these people, 25 this is basically the only nutrition they get. And it's 81 1 so, so important. 2 And for the public that doesn't understand, 3 in order for the Dietert to be able to qualify to 4 receive the assistance to provide Meals on Wheels, they 5 need to have a partner at the local government. And we 6 are their partners. And that's what this is about. 7 MS. THOMPSON: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 11 approve the Proclamation claiming March 2023 as the 21st 12 Annual March for Meals Month at the Dietert Center. Any 13 other discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Brenda, I think I've 15 signed up that next Wednesday to ride. 16 MS. THOMPSON: All right. I'll have to 17 chime in and say we've got you. Last year he came twice 18 because he came on the wrong day and then he came on the 19 right day so he got -- he got to do it twice. So yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, they fed me. 21 MS. THOMPSON: Oh yeah. Breakfast. Every 22 day. We make breakfast every morning for you. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. All those in favor say 24 aye. Opposed? There being none, Proclamation is 25 declared. 82 1 MS. THOMPSON: Thank you so much. We 2 appreciate it. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. We appreciate you. 4 Okay. Now let's go back and catch up to 5 where we were. We had finished Item 1.11 and we are 6 going to pass Item 1.12 for a public hearing to be set, 7 and that moves us over to Item 1.13, which is to 8 consider, discuss and take appropriate action for the 9 Court to approve a revision of plat for the Verde Creek 10 Estates, Lots 6, 7, and part of Lot 5. Charlie 11 Hastings. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. This 13 proposal revises and combines Lot 6, which is 0.932 14 acres as platted, Lot 7, 0.887 acres as platted, and 15 part of Lot 5, approximately 0.43 acres, which was 16 previously divided without platting into Lot 6R, 17 2.24 acres. We're combining all three of those pieces 18 into one piece. The road frontage remains on River View 19 Drive. 20 This lot is partially in the floodplain and 21 must meet regulations for development in the floodplain. 22 This application was submitted back in December and we 23 held a public hearing on February 13th and the County 24 Engineer requests the Court approve a revision of plat 25 for Verde Creek Estates, Lots 6, 7, and part of Lot 5, 83 1 Volume 3, Page 99, Precinct 2. It is subject to our 2 2007 regulations. It's not subject to the new 3 regulations, which it wouldn't make a difference anyway 4 I don't think. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: I -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I second it. Doesn't 9 matter. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 11 approve the revision of plat for Verde Creek Estates, 12 Lots 6, 7, and part of Lot 5. Any discussion? Those in 13 favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, it passes. 14 Moving on to Item 1.14 consider, discuss, 15 and take appropriate action to authorize the County 16 Clerk to advertise for bids for 2023 Road Construction 17 Project Phase 2. Charlie Hastings. 18 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. The 2023 19 Road Reconstruction Project consisting of the 20 reconstruction of Skyline Drive in the Center Point area 21 has been designed and awarded, leaving adequate funds 22 for a second phase. 23 Phase 2 consists of the reconstruction of 24 Robertson Road, which is about six-tenths of a mile, and 25 Overhead Drive, which is 0.09 of a mile. Also Precinct 84 1 2. 2 The County Engineer requests the Court 3 authorize the County Clerk to advertise for bids for the 4 2023 Road Reconstruction Project Phase 2, Precinct 2. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: I so move that we 6 authorize the County Clerk to advertise for Phase 2 of 7 the Road Reconstruction. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Motion, second. See, you 11 quickly learn to look at me. To approve advertising to 12 bid the 2023 Road Reconstruction Project Phase 2. 13 Precinct 2. Any other discussion? Those in favor say 14 aye. Opposed? There being none, it's approved. 15 Item 1.15 consider, discuss and take 16 appropriate action pertaining to the subdivision 17 regulations and water availability requirements. 18 Charlie Hastings. 19 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. Two weeks ago the 20 Court asked that I visit with Headwaters and try to 21 quantify what do we have on the ground right now as far 22 as our regulations and water availability. We have a 23 couple of exemptions now for water availability, and if 24 you don't fall in one of those categories then you're 25 doing a water availability study for your lot. 85 1 Commissioner Belew and I had a discussion 2 about what happens to someone, let's say in the 3 Kerrville South area, that's being served water by Aqua 4 Texas, and Aqua Texas in that particular area I've been 5 hearing through the years from Headwaters that they have 6 a lot of water. 7 And so hypothetically, someone has an 8 acre 8 lot, they divide it into two and they check with Aqua 9 Texas. Aqua Texas says sure, we'll cut another tap for 10 you. We'll serve you water. What happens? What do our 11 rules make them do? Our rules require them to do a 12 water availability study in that instance. 13 Headwaters does have a document that they 14 use internally, and I think they adopted in their 15 regulations, it's called the Liveable Minimum Standard, 16 and it's based on how many square feet or acres do you 17 have on your lot, and the permitted amount. There's 18 either a 65,000 gallons per acre allotment or a 19 permitted amount, and then there's an 80,000 gallons per 20 acre -- and that's per year -- allotment or permitted 21 amount. And that's based on -- Headwaters has been in 22 the water business for a long time. It took them a long 23 time to come up with those numbers. They've had those 24 numbers for awhile. 25 But if you back into how many acres does 86 1 that require? They have a chart that they've come up 2 with. And for a house, an apartment unit or a duplex 3 unit, if you're subject to the 80,000 gallons per acre 4 per year production cap, you need 1.97 acres. So if 5 someone has 8 acres and they want to divide it into two 6 4-acre lots and they're going to be served water by Aqua 7 Texas, and Aqua Texas has plenty of water, why are they 8 doing a water available study? Because our regulations 9 say they have to. That's the answer right now. 10 The question is, is there room to write 11 something for an exemption to this? I met with 12 Headwaters and we don't -- we don't know how to do it. 13 We're not sure how to do that. And the numbers that 14 Headwaters came up with that come -- that backed into an 15 acreage are -- is not based on a water availability 16 study. They don't have a water availability study. And 17 if it was based on a water availability study, that 18 would be site specific to wherever that study was done. 19 So some -- one of the things we need to 20 understand is that when a water availability study is 21 done, there's a hole drilled, there's a well put in, and 22 they study that hole. And they study it based on how 23 many connections do I think I need, what are the results 24 I'm getting. And sometimes it takes more than one hole 25 depending on how many acres you have. We've all heard 87 1 stories of well driller comes out, pokes a hole in the 2 ground, doesn't get enough water right there. He moves 3 over 20 feet, pokes another hole and all of a sudden 4 he's got water because he found a little cavity 5 somewhere. And so that's why they're site specific. Be 6 the same for people drilling oil. They poke a hole 7 here, they don't get anything. They move over a little 8 bit, they struck it. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But -- but Charlie. 10 But back to the problem. 11 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They already know, they 13 have water available there. They're requiring them to 14 do something entirely unnecessary and strike me as a 15 taking in the process. So in talking to Gene at 16 Headwaters and Tom Jones at Headwaters and Charlie -- 17 and I have yet to get a call back from Joe Reynolds. 18 Everybody says you need to talk to Joe Reynolds. And 19 Jonathan knows him, I think, better than anybody on the 20 Court. If we could -- and it's a legislative session. 21 He's busy right now with lots of stuff. But if we 22 can -- we've got to be able to figure this out I think 23 for that reason. Because if I drill a hole in a CCN and 24 somebody else's certificate of convenience and necessity 25 area then -- I won't make that mistake again. If you do 88 1 that, you gotta cap it back up anyway. You can't use it 2 because you're in somebody else's area. 3 So this person who wants to do what 4 Charlie's talking about, they got 8 acres, they want to 5 sell half of it or give it to one of their kids, now it 6 triggers that -- that water availability study. It is 7 entirely unnecessary and we gotta fix that for the 8 safety of taxpayers. 9 And again, I don't know that I would want to 10 go to Court and tell somebody that it was not a taking. 11 In the event that they have to spend God knows how much 12 money. I don't know what they would cost these days. 13 So -- a test well. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And Tom, what's 15 y'all's view at Headwaters? 16 MR. JONES: We have no authority over that. 17 That's strictly -- that was triggered when y'all adopted 18 the model rules. And so, and it calls for -- even the 19 definition of a subdivision is the division of two or 20 more, less than five. And it doesn't take it out of the 21 CCN. That's just it. That's the definition. 22 When it triggers that model rule, it 23 triggers that water availability study, it's water 24 available study, it's strictly the authority the County 25 has; not Headwaters. 89 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 2 MR. JONES: And the only way to change it is 3 to go through the State. Do you agree with that, 4 Jonathan? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sort of. 6 JUDGE KELLY: The Model Subdivision Rules, 7 if you have a water source, and it's an open water 8 source, and they certify that they have water available 9 for -- to serve that property for 30 years, how does 10 that work? 11 MR. HASTINGS: They hesitate to sign 12 documents that say 30 years. It seems to scare 13 everybody. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not talking -- Joe 15 Reynolds had said that language has been modified. 16 That's not cert -- it's certified certain. They will 17 provide water for 30 years. They're obligated to 18 provide water for 30 years. It's not like -- because 19 they can't guarantee that there's water. 20 You know, Headwaters may change their 21 allowable and they may -- I mean, it may be something 22 out of their control totally that eliminates them to be 23 able to say we certify we can do it. But they are 24 obligated -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you -- you said 90 1 the key word. They guarantee they'll bring the water. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're obligated to. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Obligated to do it by 4 contract. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the question was 7 this, and what I brought up two weeks ago was that I 8 would like for us to accept a letter from the provider 9 instead of having a test well. That would involve -- 10 the details of that would involve getting with the 11 providers and seeing if that can even be done. If 12 they're willing to provide that. Because we don't know. 13 If we go to Aqua Tech and say, will you 14 guarantee that this person is going to have another 15 person added into your system is going to have water for 16 30 years, that's a whole other negotiation process. But 17 I would like us to get to that point because that 18 satisfies the water availability, in my view. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Well, first thing -- our 20 subdivision rules say water availability study and that 21 means that the water is available. When we go to the 22 smaller lots, the high density lots in the Model 23 Subdivision Rules, we go to water is going to be 24 provided for 30 years. If they certify that they'll 25 provide it for 30 years, then that -- we do that in lieu 91 1 of a water available study. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Wouldn't we want to do 4 something similar to that in this case? If they are 5 being provided water by Aqua Texas or who -- whoever, 6 and they can certify that they're going to provide that 7 water for 30 years, why would we treat them any 8 different than we would a model subdivision rule for 9 water? To me, I can't understand why we would. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The legality is this 11 came from Joe Reynolds, who is the water -- attorney for 12 the Water Development Board, pretty much is that the 13 Model Subdivision Rules are really written for a very 14 specific situation along the border, then the State 15 changed it and allowed any County in the State to adopt 16 them, which we have, and others -- and all of a sudden 17 they don't fit real well. 18 They're trying to get the legislature to go 19 in and fix the problem. I mean, it's difficult. They, 20 the water availability board, acknowledges there's a 21 conflict. But you know, they're not sure how to solve 22 it either. And I think that, you know, our obligation 23 to the taxpayers is that we enforce the model 24 subdivision rules. But at the same time, there's a -- 25 you know, intent. Where we try to enforce them. If 92 1 it's a direct conflict. Because I think TCEQ gets 2 involved and they have a water system, TCEQ may say you 3 can't drill that well. And that's causing more damage 4 potentially to the aquifer. To just drill a hole in the 5 well and plug it is not a good idea. I mean just for 6 the sake of drilling a hole. And I think everyone 7 agrees on these points as to how to, you know, navigate 8 through some conflicting rules. 9 MR. JONES: Well, weren't y'all talking 10 about specifically within an existing CCN? 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. That's why TCEQ 13 gets involved. That's why you have two state agencies 14 that have conflicting rules. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Well, one of the intents, and 16 I think the main intent or the reason that this body, 17 Kerr County, adopted the model subdivision regulations 18 was to ensure that we don't create any more Colonia in 19 our County. That was the reason. And that's the 20 intent. And I think we've always gotta keep that in 21 sight anytime we look at these regulations. What are we 22 trying to do? Trying to keep Colonias from springing 23 back up. And I think since we've adopted those 24 regulations, I don't think I've seen any pop back up. 25 So I think that it's working and we need to keep that in 93 1 mind. Keep that at the forefront. That's the purpose 2 and intent of those regulations. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I -- and I thought 4 about this, you know, when I'm driving around, which is 5 a lot, think about stuff. Is this something to ask the 6 Attorney General's opinion on? It's -- State Law is 7 conflicting. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And ask them to give 10 guidance on it and maybe they will resolve it. Because 11 the legislature this session isn't going to happen 12 because today is the bill filing deadline. So it's not 13 happening in this session. I don't know if we could 14 craft something maybe with some outside help like Chuck 15 or others -- 16 MR. HASTINGS: Get Chuck involved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and get to the -- and 18 request the Attorney General to say here's two state 19 laws that are in conflict. What do we follow? 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, still, that's an 21 opinion. And we've had those before. And it's not a 22 final word. It's something good to have in your pocket, 23 but it doesn't resolve the issue. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't resolve it, 25 but I think if we follow -- yeah, if we get an idea -- 94 1 if we follow that. And I -- and I don't know if this is 2 the type of a thing that you could get an Attorney 3 General opinion on because it really -- it's an odd 4 situation, but it might be something that -- and I think 5 we can explore it. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I bet if you talk 7 to any of the guys that own these CCNs, they're not 8 going to want somebody to drill a well in their CCN -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- and that would be a 11 lawsuit likely. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If they knew it was -- 14 Were you to go say something, Heather? 15 MRS. STEBBINS: Nope. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell you what. Yeah, I 17 don't -- I just really don't have an answer. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So this is the -- you 19 know, you got somebody between the dog and the fire plug 20 literally on this. There's no way out of this without 21 us either taking action like the Judge was talking 22 about. We take a letter in lieu of, and assuming -- if 23 we have an assumption that the company that's providing 24 the water has done a study. They did a test well, 25 obviously. 95 1 And here's the other thing. Charlie and 2 I -- Charlie -- I did not know this, but the wording has 3 changed on what is accepted and required from the old 4 test wells to the new test wells. Am I right on that? 5 Or maybe I should ask Tom. The test wells -- and Gene 6 was talking about this, too. That the wording 7 requirements in a test well 20 years ago is different 8 than -- 9 MR. JONES: Well, I'm sure it has. But it 10 still doesn't meet up to the specifications required for 11 a water availability study. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Say that again? 13 MR. JONES: It doesn't meet up to the 14 requirements for a water availability study. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. Right. So -- so 16 if something's already in place and has been for 20 17 years or something, it might not meet today's standard 18 anyway. 19 MR. JONES: Well, yeah. But it wouldn't -- 20 they wouldn't have run those -- those tests. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The same tests? 22 MR. JONES: Yeah. They wouldn't have run 23 the same tests on it. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Right. 25 MR. JONES: But even -- 96 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You should probably go 2 to the podium, too, if you would and tell everybody. 3 MR. JONES: I don't want to stand next to 4 Charlie. 5 MR. HASTINGS: So everybody understands. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: When you start talking 7 about certificate of convenience and necessity, it's if 8 groundwater is to be the source of the water supply, 9 then the final engineering report shall include a ground 10 water availability study that complies with requirements 11 of 30 C, blah, blah, blah. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what we're 13 trying to get -- 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: I know you're trying to 15 get away from it. My point here as a petroleum engineer 16 and having a pretty darn good understanding of geology, 17 it is complicated. And my understanding is that very 18 few water availability studies have been done. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Creekside is one. 21 MR. JONES: There's been two of them done in 22 Kerr County and they were both voluntary -- 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: And that's point in 24 time. 25 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. 97 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: You know, geology is 2 one factor. That's consistent. It's always far more 3 complex than you might think, you know, in terms of 4 these aquifers, what they're connected to. But what is 5 always changing is the amount of water in the aquifer. 6 So just because we did a water availability 7 study ten years ago doesn't mean it's still valid today. 8 Because we've gone through a heck of a drought. And -- 9 and -- 10 MR. JONES: But you can't take -- you can't 11 take -- 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- and providers aren't 13 updating. They don't run water availability studies. 14 They could. If -- if it's a well. They could run a 15 separate test. 16 MR. JONES: They would have to shut down 17 everybody that's existing on that system. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: I know. I know. And 19 that's part of the problem. I'm just saying, you know, 20 we're trusting that they actually have enough water for 21 30 years and we have no way of knowing that. I doubt 22 it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they can't -- most 24 of them can't do a water availability study because they 25 have to shut down their system to do it. 98 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: For several days. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- yeah, so -- I 4 mean, catch 22 for them. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So my question is -- 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, how do they 7 assure us it's 30 years worth of water? I don't think 8 they can, is my point. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're -- what 10 they're basing it on -- I guess, I'm not a water 11 provider. They're looking at the GMAs that are doing 12 regional calculations, how much water is there, and 13 ground water availability models. That is the Water 14 Development Board. I mean that's -- that's what they're 15 basing their information on -- agencies that do the 16 studies, you know. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And so the -- the 18 standard before is not the same as the standard today, 19 is where we're at. 20 MR. JONES: I don't know what it was before. 21 Jonathan probably knows what it was before. But -- but 22 the standard has never been for whenever those CCNs were 23 created, it was never -- unless they were required to do 24 a water availability study, it was never set up the same 25 for what they had to do as a purveyor for water. 99 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two different animals. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So -- and so, this goes 4 back to there's only been two test wells. And those 5 were done voluntarily and not required by the County 6 with the Model Subdivision Rules. 7 MR. JONES: But they weren't done with 8 specific guidelines that holds Title 230 that's set up 9 for it. It's got all these guidelines that they have to 10 do for a water availability study. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 12 MR. JONES: And when they -- when they drill 13 for that as a water purveyor, they were not going by 14 those guidelines. And those are required for their 15 final engineering report. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what I was 17 talking about. Yeah. So now we're requiring something 18 we don't even really have in existence. Triggered by 19 the Model Subdivision Rules. Which still puts people 20 with property that they can't subdivide, even though 21 there's water available to them. We're back to the same 22 problem regardless of what the ancillary -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should -- 24 you know, maybe do a case by case and exempt it. 25 Because these -- this is -- to me it's a taking. They 100 1 own the water under their land and they can't get to it. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're not allow -- 4 and the State's not allowing them. CCN is not allowing 5 to them. And we're not allowing them to get to it 6 either. And I think that -- any way you look at it, 7 that's a taking. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Technically it is. 9 They had that 8 acres, they could drill a well. They 10 would get permission. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Not in somebody's CCN. 12 They're not going to -- 13 MR. JONES: You're strictly about CCNs right 14 now. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. In particular. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So to me, I mean, it is 17 what it is. Case by case, whatever. I think it is not 18 right to deny it to the public. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Well, bottom line what we're 21 saying is it's probably going to be a case by case 22 exemption process that we go through with each one. 23 MR. JONES: How did we handle it in the 24 past? 25 JUDGE KELLY: Case by case. 101 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Continue on. 2 MR. HASTINGS: The way we handled it in the 3 past -- 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't remember any. 5 MR. HASTINGS: The way we handled this in 6 the past was in our 2007 regulations. We had a 7 statement that said if your acreage meets our chart, 8 you've satisfied the water availability. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's a table. Yeah. 10 And that's not in there anymore. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's gone. And that was 12 based on the state laws. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Which came up to an average 14 of two acres. When that left our regulations, it 15 created this problem. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the Headwaters -- 17 the bottom line is 1.97 acres. So anybody that, just 18 for safety sake, two acres or more is something we 19 should review here, if there's -- if somebody's in CCN. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the water 21 provider -- I mean there's two steps here. The water 22 provider, one has to say yes, I've got the water, and 23 Headwaters gotta say they have the water. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. 25 MS. HOFFER: What we did a long time ago 102 1 when I was working with subdivision rules and 2 regulations with Leonard, he required -- he was the 3 subdivision administrator. And I know this probably 4 doesn't carry a whole lot of weight, but he would 5 require a letter from the water company, and along with 6 their signature being on that plat, they required a 7 letter that came from them. 8 JUDGE KELLY: That's what we've always done. 9 And what we're saying right now is, we don't have that 10 specifically, explicitly built into our subdivision 11 rules. So what we probably oughta do is start by going 12 back to Chuck or the AG -- I don't know if the AG is the 13 right way to go. I'll refer to the County Attorney on 14 that. But we definitely need to go to Chuck and have 15 this discussion and see what his recommendation would be 16 on how to address this. That's what I would recommend. 17 But historically, so the public knows, we 18 did this by if we got the certificate from the water 19 provider that says they would provide water for 30 20 years, we approved it. And that's not necessarily a bad 21 way to go. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. And we had a table, 23 like Charlie says, that was based on Headwaters and 24 state models. And that says basically if you meet these 25 criteria, you're deemed to have satisfied the water 103 1 availability requirements. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And it was the two acres. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And 1.97-acres -- 6 MR. HASTINGS: To clarify, the -- you've got 7 the East Kerr County zone that is only a 55,000 gallons 8 per year per acre, and that one comes out to 2.43 acres 9 instead of 1.97. So it does depend on where you're at 10 in the County. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Understood. But when the 12 home -- the landowner comes to us and wants to subdivide 13 his property, they're looking for us to give him final 14 plat approval, right? That's how we -- that's how we 15 did it. Because we have a plat. You handle permits. 16 We handle plats. 17 When they come to us, what we did in the 18 past was used that particular chart that ties back to 19 the 1.97 acres basically, and got the certificate from 20 the water provider that they would provide water for 30 21 years, and that's the way we did it. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Where we are now, is looks 24 like to me without clarification from our attorney, we 25 would have to do that on a case by case basis. And that 104 1 would probably be, again, as we contemplated when we 2 amended the rules, revised the rules, that we've got to 3 work closer with Headwaters to make sure that we're 4 going to be able to -- whatever we would exempt is going 5 to be doable. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So do we want to take 8 action now or we're going to talk to Chuck about this or 9 get further -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think -- I don't think 11 we have to take action right now. We should be able to 12 just take it on a case by case basis, which is clearly 13 contemplated within the revised rules. And we don't 14 have to take any action to do that. That's there. I 15 think we ought to go ahead and get some clarification 16 from our counsel. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: I agree. 18 JUDGE KELLY: So that if -- well, the 19 counsel doesn't have anything to do with the water 20 availability. He's just going have to do with the 21 language with how we're going to provide -- how to 22 subdivide these properties. The water availability 23 basically still comes back to Headwaters. They're the 24 ones, if it's in the east zone -- I see a head nod. A 25 shake over there; is that right? 105 1 MR. JONES: Well, that -- that's -- we're 2 going to tell you what we would allow. But we don't 3 guarantee there's any water down there. 4 JUDGE KELLY: We understand that. 5 (Laughter). 6 JUDGE KELLY: We've been doing it this way. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We want the letter from 8 you. 9 MR. JONES: Right. Right. 10 JUDGE KELLY: To clarify, we don't want the 11 letter from you; we want it from the provider. Because 12 a contractual obligation of that provider to make sure 13 that those people don't run out of water. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that, we could take 15 action on today. And then the details be worked out 16 later. That was what I was asking. 17 JUDGE KELLY: What action will we be taking? 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: To say that in lieu of 19 the water availability study, you take a letter from the 20 water provider, which basically -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: I would have them come to us 22 and say good cause. Here's why we want an exemption. 23 Bring us the certificate that says we've got water and 24 we can look at it and say, yeah, it's good enough for 25 us, or not. 106 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's nowhere written 2 that that's the process. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't there one pending 4 right now? 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think so. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean I think 7 there's one -- 8 MR. HASTINGS: It hasn't been submitted to 9 our office because they can't get off of go right now. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of this or 11 because of other issues? 12 MR. HASTINGS: Probably because of this. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: They haven't -- it hasn't 15 been submitted so I don't know. I'm guessing. But I 16 can read between the lines. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's come to the court 18 for a couple reasons. One, it forces us to make a 19 decision and if we say no, we either grant the exemption 20 or we say no, in which if I were them, I think -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So by precedent? 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well, what I'm saying -- my 23 recommendation to you, Charlie, or whoever it is, I'll 24 just call them the potential applicant here. The 25 applicant comes to us and they've got -- they've already 107 1 talked to a water provider who's going to provide a 2 certificate. And they show it to us and then we get to 3 discuss it among ourselves whether or not we think 4 that's adequate or not. And we can make an exception or 5 not. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 JUDGE KELLY: If we don't make the 8 exception, we're back at the drawing board. We know 9 that. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, along with y'all 11 I -- I'd sure like to hear Chuck's input. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Before we grant 13 any exceptions, let's get -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. All right. So we're 15 agreeing to go to Chuck for the time being? 16 MRS. STEBBINS: Are you going to call Chuck? 17 I'm letting him know that you'll be contacting him 18 because y'all want legal advice and where to watch this 19 portion of the meeting so that he can be brought up to 20 speed. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Charlie and I will be 22 there. Well, it's good that this -- this -- I'm going 23 to call it this glitch was brought to our attention and 24 we address it sooner rather than later. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is going to come up 108 1 a lot. 2 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. So at this time 3 we're going to pass it with no action until we hear from 4 Chuck. 5 Okay. That takes care of the consideration 6 agenda, and let's move on to the approval agenda. Item 7 2.1 budget amendments. 8 MRS. SHELTON: We had one budget adjustment 9 for today. And it is basically to move money to cover 10 the motor at the Little League field. A repair that 11 they had to do. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 14 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 15 second to approve the budget amendment as presented. 16 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 17 There being none, budget amendment is approved. 18 Item 2.2. 19 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Invoices for today's 20 consideration amount to $791,065.91. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 24 approve paying the bills as presented. Any discussion? 25 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? There being no 109 1 opposition, paying bills is approved. 2 Item 2.3 late bills. 3 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Item 2.4 Auditor reports. 5 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Moving on to 7 Item 2.5 monthly reports. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. For Court Order 9 October 1, 2022, through December 31, 2022. County 10 Treasurers quarterly summary, Tracy Soldan. For January 11 2023, Treasurer's monthly report, tracy Soldan. For 12 February, 2023, Veterans Services Officer, Jenna 13 Sanchez. Environmental Health OSSF, director Ashli 14 Badders. Animal Control Services, Director Reagan 15 Givens. Constable Precinct 1, Tommy Rodriguez. 16 Precinct 2, Kyle Schneider, Precinct 3, Paul Gonzales, 17 Precinct 4, Brad Rider. Justice of the Peace. 18 Precinct 2, J. R. Hoyne, Precinct 3, Kathy Mitchell, 19 Precinct 4, Bill Ragsdale. Auditor's monthly report. 20 Tanya Shelton. District Clerk, Dawn Lantz. County 21 Clerk, Jackie "JD" Dowdy. Treasurer's payroll report. 22 Tracy Soldan. I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 25 approve all those monthly reports. Any discussion? 110 1 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Monthly reports are 2 approved. 3 2.6. Court orders. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. We have our Court 5 Orders from our February 27th regular meeting. Orders 6 39843 through 39868. They all look to be in order. 7 Move for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 10 second to approve the Court Orders as presented. Any 11 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Court 12 Orders are approved. 13 Information agenda. 3.1 status reports from 14 department heads. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'd like to hear about 16 the website. 17 MS. WALTER: The website is due to go live 18 on Wednesday. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's good. That's 20 what I heard last week so that's still good. 21 MS. WALTER: No, I think you'll be pleased 22 with it. We've made a lot of ground in the last few 23 weeks and I think it's going to be a lot more user 24 friendly for the public and I think it's going to 25 function nicely. It will be a work in progress. We'll 111 1 have to fine tune some things, but it's going to be 2 nice. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: I have a question. 4 Last week I went in there just to check the burn ban 5 status and Jody helped me on this. But what is it, 6 Google Chrome one -- shows one version and something 7 else shows another version. 8 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Well, that's the old 9 website. I don't know if this will be better or not. 10 But -- 11 MS. WALTER: I've been viewing our new site 12 with Google Chrome. I've been working on it and I 13 just -- and on my phone I haven't run into any problems. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: It was inaccurate 15 information on the website. 16 JUDGE KELLY: On the old website? 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: I guess. 18 JUDGE KELLY: We have to have a disclaimer. 19 MR. HASTINGS: Most likely it's whatever -- 20 you need to be refreshed, that F5 on the keyboard for 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. When you first 23 pull it up, you shouldn't need to refresh anything. 24 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah, there's been issues 25 with that for a while. 112 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Okay. 2 MR. HASTINGS: Well, I've experienced that, 3 but not specifically with Kerr County. But I know what 4 you're talking about. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Come Wednesday, 6 everything is going to redirect to the new one. 7 MS. WALTER: That's the plan. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 9 MS. WALTER: That's the plan. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's the whole goal, 11 user friendliness, and less calls to people to find 12 information. Less foot traffic for people to find 13 information. Because the old one's been frustrating for 14 years. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and for those watching 16 us from home or watching this later at home, that's the 17 whole reason that we went through this project. And 18 it's been -- it's been a slow and tedious process. 19 Painful at times. But hopefully we're going to be all 20 rewarded with -- 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know when we first 22 started this process, I probably looked at 40, 50 23 different county websites. Smaller, about our size and 24 what have you. I couldn't find one worse than ours. 25 MS. WALTER: Well, we've got nowhere to go 113 1 but up. 2 (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE KELLY: Let's move on to Item 3.2, 4 which is status reports from elected officials. 5 Mr. Reeves. 6 MR. REEVES: Good morning again. Just want 7 to remind the Court and the public that the tax office 8 at the courthouse will be closed this Thursday, the 9 16th, due to upgrades of our department motor vehicle 10 computer system, which is handled by the State. We will 11 have extra staff at the annex. 12 And for Thursday only, the annex will be 13 open through the lunch hour to accommodate what we have. 14 We hope that it only will be for the one day that we'll 15 be closed. We had some problems when we want through 16 this at the annex last month and had to be closed an 17 extra day. The problems, I'll stress, are not on the 18 part of Kerr County IT but with the State. But, once 19 again, the tax office at the courthouse will be closed 20 this Thursday. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Very good. Any other elected 22 officials? Sheriff? 23 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. Rich, I want to thank 24 you for those comments. I'll pass them on to my staff. 25 But what I want the public to know is I want to thank 114 1 y'all. Because of y'all approving the MOU this was able 2 to happen. So just so y'all know, I can't talk a whole 3 lot about the case, but what I can tell you is like I 4 have one main interdiction team but we team up with 5 Kendall and Gillespie. That's a year to year basis. 6 But this particular incident took three 7 months to put together. So instead of three, I had over 8 20 guys out there for a week period. And because of 9 that, as a matter of fact, the guy who got this load is 10 out of the one hundred district attorney's office in 11 Carson County. He said the last three biggest loads 12 where they've been. So we intend on doing this every 13 year. And it takes a long time, but because of y'all's 14 efforts we were able to do this so we really appreciate 15 it. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you, Sheriff. Any other 17 elected officials? 18 3.3 status reports from liaison 19 commissioners. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just have one. Been 21 working on for a while as everyone knows, moving the 22 Treasurer and OSSF office downstairs. We have a design 23 and Peter Lewis has come up with it in talking to those 24 parties. He's putting a cost estimate to it. And it'll 25 come back to us and we'll see how much it costs and 115 1 whether we're -- how we're going to move forward. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Some happy people and 3 some not so happy, but anyway -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. Okay. I think 5 that concludes the -- 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Just a reminder. We do 7 have an APO meeting this Wednesday -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- at the Hill Country 10 Youth Event Center. 11 JUDGE KELLY: At six o'clock. And we'll be 12 discussing the best management practices. And we have 13 our consultant, Jill Shackelford, coming in to help us 14 with the meeting. 15 Okay. That concludes the approval agenda. 16 And we need to take a vote before we go into Executive 17 Session because we're going to be talking about -- 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Contract negotiations. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Contract negotiations with the 20 subdivision rules. 21 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. Contract negotiations 22 and so you will need to vote that conversation during an 23 open meeting would interfere with your negotiation with 24 a third party. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So is there a motion? 116 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 2 we go into Executive Session for that reason. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Contract negotiations. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract negotiations 6 and -- 7 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion. Second. 8 All those in favor say aye. Opposed? We're going to 9 take a five minute break and go into Executive Session. 10 (Break.) 11 (Executive Session.) 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay, it is 12:27, we're 13 coming out of Executive Session and there's no action to 14 be taken, so we are adjourned. 15 * * * * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 117 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 24th day of March, A.D. 2023. 10 11 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2023 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25