1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, June 12, 2023 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 RICH PACES, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Public Input. 7 4 *** Commissioners' Comments. 15 5 1.1 Passed. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 21 action to set a public hearing on July 10, 7 2023 at 10:30 to be held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, 700 Main Street, Kerrville, Texas 8 for the purpose of presenting the County Clerk's Annual Record Archival Plan in 9 accordance with Local Government Code 118.025(g). 10 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 22 11 action regarding office location of County Treasurer and Environmental Health Department. 12 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 47 13 action to accept donations totalling $60.00 for the month of May 2023 to be added to 14 the Operating Expense line item 10-642-330. 15 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 47 action to authorize Enterprise Fleet to 16 order two 2024 Dodge Ram pickups prior to budgeting request that will be submitted. 17 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 49 18 action to approve the service agreement between the (DIR-CTS) Department of 19 Information Resources Communications Technology Services Division and the Kerr 20 County Sheriff's Office. 21 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 51 action to authorize County Judge to accept 22 Grant Funding from FY 2022 Operation Stone Garden (Project: Sutton-2022), OOG Grant 23 Number 4899301, in the amount of $44,197.00. 24 1.8 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 52 action to review membership of Kerr County 25 Animal Services Advisory Committee and make appointments as may be needed. 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 54 action to approve documents related to the 4 new Animal Control Facility, Texas Antiquities Permit Application, and a 5 Governmental Agency Curation Agreement. 6 1.10 Public Hearing regarding the installation 58 of "No Parking" signs on Kelly St. at FM 480 7 just west of FM 480. 8 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 58 action for the Commissioners' Court approval 9 regarding the installation of "No Parking" signs on Kelly St. at FM 480 just west of 10 FM 480. 11 1.12 Discussion regarding traffic safety concerns 71 and setback variance at 1605 Hunt Group LLC 12 project located at the intersection of State Highways 39 and 1340, Hunt, Texas. 13 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 94 14 action to determine if the 1605 Cypress Landing Condominium development, located at 15 1605 SH 39 in Hunt, is a subdivision for which the landowner must prepare and file a 16 plat in conformance with the Subdivision and Manufactured Home Rental Community 17 Regulations for Kerr County. 18 1.16 Public Hearing for a revision of plat for 125 Hall Ranch Lot 3. 19 1.17 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 125 20 action regarding a revision of plat for Hall Ranch Lot 3. 21 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 130 22 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 a.m. on July 24, 2023 for a 23 revision of plat for Lake Ingram Estates Section 2, Lots 66 and 67. 24 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 135 25 action regarding a final plat for D-McGeeHee Subdivision. 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.18 Public Hearing for a revision of plat for 136 Soledad Springs Estates, Lots 39 and 44. 4 1.19 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 136 5 action regarding a revision of plat for Soledad Springs Estates, Lots 39 and 44. 6 1.20 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 137 7 action regarding a final plat for Meister Addition. 8 1.21 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 138 9 action to open, read, and award the Rebids for crushed paving aggregates. 10 1.22 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 139 11 action for the Commissioners Court to set a public hearing regarding the installation of 12 "No Parking" signs near the Bear Creek Bridge, Kerr County side. 13 1.23 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 141 14 action for Commissioners' Court approval to purchase a new Caterpillar 920 OC Loader, 15 and approval to trade in a 2003 Caterpillar 924GZ Loader. 16 1.24 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 144 17 action for the Commissioners' Court to set a public hearing regarding setting the speed 18 limit on Thrill Hill Dr. W. at 35 MPH. 19 1.25 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 146 action for Commissioners' Court approval of 20 a General Contract with Secor Fence & Building Company for fence and gate project 21 on Spur 100 at the Road & Bridge Department property. 22 1.26 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 147 23 action for Commissioners' Court approval of a general contract with Secor Fence & 24 Building Company for fence project on Kerr County property at Apache Subdivision. 25 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.27 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 149 action regarding the 1st Revision of the 4 Kerr County Voluntary Guidance Document for Aggregate Production Operations (APO). 5 1.28 Passed. 6 1.29 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 151 7 action to approve paying additional consulting services fees to Jill Shackelford 8 for her work with the Aggregate Production Operations (APO) meetings. 9 1.30 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 160 10 action to approve Public Relations/Media Policy. 11 1.31 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 165 12 action to ratify and confirm General Certificate of Kerr County for the Alamo 13 Housing Finance Corporation, AAHFC, in connection with its Multifamily Housing 14 Revenue Bonds, Oaks of Bandera/Trails at River Road Apartments, Series 2023 bonds. 15 1.32 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 167 16 action to address the possibility of prohibiting or restricting the sale or use 17 of restricted fireworks, i.e.: "Sky rockets with sticks" and "missiles with fins" in any 18 portion of the unincorporated area of Kerr County pursuant to the Local Government Code 19 352.051 for the 4th of July fireworks season. 20 1.33 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 168 action to clarify the Road & Bridge 21 stipend request for CDL holders as of 05/22/2023, Court Order #40017, and were 22 hired prior to said Commissioners Court date. 23 1.34 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 171 action to schedule a public workshop with 24 the Texas First on election integrity the week of August 21st. 25 6 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.35 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 184 action for the Court to approve Certificate 4 of Construction Completion for TDA Project 7218055, East Kerr/Center Point Wastewater 5 Collection Project. 6 1.36 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 185 action to surplus Sheriff's Office chairs. 7 1.37 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 186 8 action to approve amended budget calendar for fiscal year 2023-2024. 9 1.38 Passed. 10 1.21 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 187 11 action to open, read, and award the Rebids for crushed paving aggregates. 12 2.1 Budget Amendments. 191 13 2.2 Pay Bills. 193 14 2.3 Late Bills. 193 15 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 194 16 2.6 Court Orders. 194 17 3.2 Status reports from Elected Officials. 195 18 3.3 Status reports from Liaison Commissioners. 197 19 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 200 20 action to determine if the 1605 Cypress Landing Condominium development, located at 21 1605 SH 39 in Hunt, is a subdivision for which the landowner must prepare and file a 22 plat in conformance with the Subdivision and Manufactured Home Rental Community 23 Regulations for Kerr County. 24 *** Adjournment. 201 25 *** Reporter's Certificate. 202 7 1 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come to order. It 2 is Monday, June the 12th, 2023, 9:00 o'clock in the 3 morning and the Kerr County Court is now in session. If 4 you would, please rise for the prayer and pledge, which 5 will be led by Commissioner Belew. 6 (Prayer and Pledge.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: Please be seated. Okay. The 8 first matter is if you've got a cell phone, turn it to 9 silent or turn it off. We don't want it to interrupt 10 the proceedings. And then the next thing on the agenda 11 is public input. Let me explain. You have to come 12 up -- I wanted to explain to everybody so you understand 13 our procedures. 14 Public input is the opportunity for the 15 public to provide input to this Court. And we do that 16 at every regular court meeting. And we're one of the 17 few counties in the state that actually do that, believe 18 it or not, but we do. And it's your opportunity to come 19 tell us anything you think we need to know or tell us 20 what we're doing wrong that you want us to fix, whatever 21 it is. We do it from the podium. It's all on YouTube. 22 You can watch this later. It can be seen by everybody 23 every week. 24 The -- we ask that you, when you go to the 25 podium, you identify yourself by name and your address 8 1 or the precinct that you live in so we know where you 2 are so I know who to look to up here, which Commissioner 3 you belong to. And we limit your -- limit your remarks 4 to three minutes or less. 5 And I was asked if there was any limit on 6 the number of people that could present public input and 7 there is not. That's why we limit it to three minutes 8 so that all those that would like to address the Court 9 have the opportunity. And I think we'll have some 10 people today that will be addressing the Court. 11 The one thing we do ask of you when you come 12 up off the public input portion, the discussion today, 13 is that if you want to talk about something that is on 14 the agenda, we respectfully request that you wait to 15 address that when that agenda item is called. It's more 16 pertinent that -- at that time and it allows us to do 17 the public input a little bit quicker and be able to 18 focus on the specific issues that you are concerned 19 about. 20 Now, some -- one of the frustrations that 21 some people have is when you get up and give us input 22 and you wait for our response, and you hear nothing, 23 it's because it's not on the agenda for us to give you 24 any response. It is input only. If you have a specific 25 agenda item, there will be discussion and response. 9 1 That's kind of the way our rules are written. 2 So with that let me ask, is there anybody 3 who would like to offer the Court public input? Okay. 4 The first one I've got on here is John Jeter(phonetic). 5 Is that you? 6 MR. JETER: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Make your way to the podium. 8 MR. JETER: Gentlemen, I'm John Jeter. 9 First, I want to thank you for your service, your 10 leadership, and the opportunity to address you. Thank 11 you for your instruction about addressing a specific 12 agenda item, which I'm here for, so I'll keep my -- 13 these particular comments brief. 14 My great-grandfather, Dick Terrell, was the 15 President of the San Antonio Chamber of Commerce in 16 1910. In 1928, he built a little -- we call it The 17 Lodge up on Rim Road in Hunt, Texas. And with him was 18 my uncle, Archie Brown, Judge Archie Brown, who was a 19 Judge at the Bexar County Courthouse. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, he was. 21 MR. JETER: You know Judge Brown? 22 JUDGE KELLY: I know him very well. 23 MR. JETER: And Judge Burney was also on 24 that property. I'm sure y'all have heard of Judge 25 Burney. Since 1928, almost a hundred years ago, that 10 1 property has been as sacred say as any property that I 2 understand -- I know that Texans understand the holiness 3 of private property. We've lived within two miles of 4 Hunt for nearly a hundred years. And that area, to me, 5 is holy. 6 And I come from South Carolina to address 7 the Court, and I'll see the floor soon because this is 8 an agenda item 1.13 that is not the purpose to discuss 9 right now. But I just want to let you know that I 10 really appreciate y'all's leadership on this. And your 11 deep consideration of the concerns and issues that face 12 me and my folks there. 13 When I splashed in the Guadalupe River last 14 night, yesterday, I texted my family back home and I 15 said, I am in the waters of my people. So gentlemen, 16 thank you for your service. Thank you for the time. 17 Thank you for the opportunity to let me address y'all. 18 And I'll be talking about this later. 19 JUDGE KELLY: You can catch me at a break 20 and I'll tell you Judge Brown stories. 21 MR. JETER: I need all of them. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Mike and Jan. 23 MS. PIERACCINI: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Y'all going to do this 25 together? 11 1 MR. PIERACCINI: Yes, we can. Yes. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And I'm going to let 3 you say your last name. 4 MR. PIERACCINI: Thank you, Judge Kelly. 5 Commissioners. My name is Mike Pieraccini. 6 MS. PIERACCINI: I'm Jan Pieraccini. 7 MR. PIERACCINI: And we reside at 8 162 Cypress Drive South. We're here today to introduce 9 ourselves. I'm the President of Gunny's Warriors, our 10 local veteran non-profit here. We bring awareness to 11 the physical damage caused to the brain by blast 12 exposure. And we advocate for brain donation to further 13 these studies to assist our veterans. 14 MS. PIERACCINI: What we'd like to speak 15 to -- and good morning. What we'd like to speak to you 16 about this morning is an event that we are hosting on 17 September 11th. We can -- let's see, it's going to be 18 from Saturday, September 9th, through Monday, 19 September 11th. And I made copies for y'all if I can 20 give them to you later. 21 JUDGE KELLY: We have them. 22 MS. PIERACCINI: What? 23 JUDGE KELLY: We have them. 24 MS. PIERACCINI: Okay. Good. What this is 25 is an opportunity for us, Mike and I wanted to do 12 1 something for our community. You all have been so 2 gracious and supportive of our non-profit Gunny's 3 Warriors that we wanted to give back to the community 4 and do something positive. So it will be at the Hill 5 Country Youth Event Center, in the park area there. It 6 will be open and free to the public. 7 What you do is you can buy -- purchase a 8 flag, American flag, for $45.00, and we plan on having 9 500 flags up in the park, and we'll have food trucks and 10 opening ceremonies and events throughout the three days 11 that it's open. And then we will take down the flags on 12 September 12th, and whoever purchased the flags will 13 then get the flag. The theme of our event is called 14 Honor Your Hero, and we wanted to make this a 15 community-wide event, not just for veterans. 16 So anyone that has been a hero or a positive 17 impact in your life, you can honor them with a flag and 18 there would be a 3x5 index card on each flag speaking of 19 the person that's being honored. We hope that this is a 20 good turnout and we ask for your support. And we will 21 be back later in -- before September to remind y'all of 22 this. If you don't know or have ever seen a field of 23 honor -- that's my three minutes? 24 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 25 MS. PIERACCINI: I didn't know I could talk 13 1 that long. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Mike, I didn't get one 3 of those fliers. If you've got an extra one, I 4 appreciate it. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I've got a set here. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. We got them. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think there was just 8 one of each that was attached to it. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And I can't respond, but these 10 are people that I've talked to a number of times. I've 11 marched with them. There's more to be said when we have 12 this as an agenda item. We can't say it today. 13 MR. PIERACCINI: Thank you. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Next is Richard Mosty. You're 15 going to -- 16 MR. MOSTY: I'm already on 1.14. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. George, are you going 18 to speak at public input? 19 MR. BAROODY: Yes. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 21 MR. BAROODY: George Baroody, 1616 Glenn 22 Road. I sat through a meeting one time where the Judge 23 actually kept talking about Government 101. So I've got 24 some questions, and I know you can't answer them but -- 25 today, but I'm hoping somebody could. 14 1 So there's a whole big to-do about Mr. Belew 2 and if he's qualified to hold public office. And I 3 guess my questions are, kind of about that, because as 4 I'm understanding things the qualifications aren't to 5 hold public office; They're actually to be a candidate 6 to run and file to run. And so when someone does that, 7 they fill out the application, the body is supposed to 8 vet it, whether they actually do or don't, after five 9 days or something, They're supposed to say okay, you're 10 going to be on the ballot. The time to challenge that 11 application ends 50 days before the election. 12 So it appears what's going on now, is 13 someone's challenging that application and I'm not sure 14 why. Then to move forward, there's very specific ways 15 to remove an elected official from office, and they seem 16 to be recall, or the one that appears to be what's going 17 on, for incompetency or official misconduct or 18 intoxication, all happening while they're serving in 19 their term. 20 So it's very -- the law says very 21 specifically no removal for prior acts and the officer 22 may not be removed in this chapter for an act the 23 officer committed before election of his office. So 24 again, I don't understand why the taxpayers are being -- 25 the resources of the taxpayers are being wasted on 15 1 something that can't really be done legally. And to say 2 that the body has no hand in this is false, because you 3 guys are to uphold the laws in this area, and you're the 4 body that was supposed to vet, and if you did, you put 5 him on the ballot so it's already been vetted. 6 The proof that is supposed to do for being 7 qualified to hold office is simply that the voters 8 elected him. And there was a canvassing of that 9 election; therefore, he's qualified. 10 So I don't I understand why we're continuing 11 to waste taxpayer dollars vetting something that's 12 already been vetted. If the voters want to weigh in 13 after electing somebody, they get to weigh in with a 14 recall. So this body could actually step forward and 15 say that's the procedures and that's what happened. 16 I'm hopeful that a Judge will see this as 17 being improper and throw it out in Court and leave it 18 back to the voters. We should be the ones deciding. So 19 thank you. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Any other public comment or 21 input? 22 Obviously, there's a lot to respond to that. 23 We cannot do that. So with that, we'll move on to 24 Commissioners' Comments. Precinct 1. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I wanted to do a little 16 1 shout out to Reagan Givens. There's been an ongoing 2 issue in Precinct 1 that he dealt with and took care of, 3 and it wasn't an easy -- you deal with personalities, 4 you deal with issues, and you deal with problems. And 5 if you can put those to rest and calm people down and 6 get the job done, it's always a good thing and Reagan 7 did that recently. And he got a taxpayer very happy, 8 and will know now what they're paying their taxes for, 9 so that's always good. 10 And that's -- that's all. I just wanted to 11 tell you that your department heads, your people that 12 are taking care of all kinds of things you don't even 13 see in county government. They're always busy doing 14 these kinds of things. There's something to do every 15 single day. Something's going wrong. Something needs 16 to be -- put a little -- dot the "I" and cross the "T" 17 and they're doing it and it has to be done. I 18 appreciate it. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. For Precinct 2, 20 there is no burn ban. We've had enough rain. Things 21 are green enough. So it's still okay to burn. I've 22 been continuing to work with D Guerra, who is the 23 remaining contractor working on the EDAP wastewater 24 project. And I've been making calls to my contacts at 25 Bandera Electric to try to expedite the hookup of three 17 1 phase power for Lift Station H on Stoneleigh Road. But 2 otherwise, D Guerra is wrapping things up. Hopefully, 3 they'll be complete in another month or maybe two. And 4 anyone who needs to make a claim for damages or warranty 5 within the first year, need to do that by contacting 6 GrantWorks, Rosie Daly, who happens to be here. Rosie, 7 get in front of the camera, just so people can see you. 8 Her number is (512) 957-1465. Call between 8:00 a.m. 9 and 4:00 p.m. on weekdays. And when calling, give your 10 name, address, the issue and a call back number. So 11 that's the process and it's far better if you make a 12 complaint now than later. 13 Okay. Just a little bit of an update on 14 road reconstruction projects. Skyline Drive. The road 15 reconstruction is basically complete. We're now waiting 16 on the County Road and Bridge Department. They will 17 complete it with the chipsealing. And that work -- 18 they've been doing the prep work, they'll have the 19 chipsealing started this week, and hopefully finish next 20 week for Skyline Drive. 21 On Robertson Road, they had to lower some -- 22 that's a reconstruction project that's been approved, 23 but they had to lower some utility lines. Primarily 24 water. That's been done. So now the contractor, 25 Brannan, is going to be there July 10th to start that 18 1 road reconstruction. 2 And on Elm Pass Two, which I'm getting 3 questions on, that is basically -- we hope to get it 4 done here soon, but it's pending gravel. Wheatcraft is 5 the contractor that was supposed to provide the gravel 6 for the chipseal, and they failed. It's not available. 7 So as soon as we can find some other gravel, and I think 8 we're going to open some bids today, we'll get -- Road & 9 Bridge will be able to finish that. That's it. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Three. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll also give Reagan 12 and his staff a shout out along with the Sheriff's 13 Department. There was -- it's amazing what things all 14 of a sudden blow up. A donkey caused lots of -- lots of 15 news. San Antonio, two stations covered it. And the 16 illegal dumping situation. 17 But through a lot of investigative work 18 through the Sheriff's investigative staff and Animal 19 Controls, Dominique, they figured out who owned it and 20 the person turned himself in, and it was resolved. 21 There was no animal cruelty involved. It was a person 22 just wanted to get rid of a dead donkey and didn't do it 23 the right way. So shout out to both those departments 24 for tracking down and figuring out what actually 25 happened there. 19 1 And the other thing is that it looks like 2 summer is here. Temperatures the rest of the week are 3 supposed to be over a hundred. So get ready for it. 4 That's it. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We're lucky it didn't 6 hit us like it did last year. It was a lot earlier. A 7 couple things coming up. This Thursday, the West Kerr 8 Chamber, as well as the Kerrville Chamber, having a 9 joint mixer out at Moon Shadow Haven. If you haven't 10 been there, it's right across the street from Mountain 11 Home Volunteer Fire Department. Relatively new place 12 that holds events. And you ought to force yourself to 13 check it out if you get a chance. 14 And then this Friday, Divide -- the Divide 15 VFD will be having their annual fundraiser, steak dinner 16 starts at 5:00. I think it runs through 9:00. There 17 will be silent auctions, live auctions, a lot of raffles 18 and stuff. And it's always a fun event. 19 One other thing, I continue to get great 20 reviews from the town hall we had at the Mountain Home 21 VFD on the human trafficking. And I'm sure the Sheriff 22 continues to get those -- to those as well. We have 23 talked, looks like there will probably be another one 24 after the 4th of July, maybe at the Event Center. More 25 centralized location. Now the first one we wanted to 20 1 have it out there because that's the people that deal 2 with it all the time, right there in their backyard. So 3 there's another one coming up if you missed the first 4 one. And that's all. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Countywide, the one 6 thing I will comment on is this procedure with 7 Commissioner Belew. We shy away from talking about it 8 on the court, but I think it's important that the public 9 understand that this Court has nothing to do with the 10 quo warranto proceeding -- quo warranto, however you say 11 it. It's a Latin term. It's brought by the State of 12 Texas. And this Court has no involvement, that's why 13 you haven't heard from us. 14 Now, I will get together with Lisa Walter, 15 our PR representative, and confirm with our County 16 Attorney and even outside counsel, and be able to get a 17 public press release out so people will know the details 18 of this. But this -- if any -- this is all being 19 handled by the District Attorney for the 198th District 20 Court, Judicial District, and that's all at the State 21 level. It's not -- has nothing to do with the County. 22 And by the way, at the County level we run 23 by party, so any applications go through the parties and 24 then the parties present their candidates to the County 25 to put on the ballot. So all the vetting or screening 21 1 that would have been done would have been done at the 2 party level. So I just offer that by way of general 3 information. And we'll get a press release so that the 4 public will understand that the County's not involved in 5 it. 6 With that, we're ready to start the 7 Consideration Agenda. Item 1.1 is presentation 8 regarding AgriLife Extension and Kerr 4-H 9 Interpretation. Jennifer Smith. 10 MRS. GRINSTEAD: We're going to pass on that 11 one. They had a conflict. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we'll pass on that. 13 We're going to 1.2 consider, discuss and take 14 appropriate action to set a public hearing on July 10, 15 of 2023 at 10:30 in the morning to be held in the 16 Commissioners' Courtroom at 700 Main Street, Kerrville, 17 Texas for the purpose of presenting the County Clerk's 18 Annual Record Archival Plan in accordance with Local 19 Government Code Section 118.025(g). Miss Dowdy. 20 MS. DOWDY: It's standard procedure. I just 21 need a public hearing at this time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 25 approve setting the public hearing for the Annual Record 22 1 Archival Plan review. Okay. Next is another 9:00 2 o'clock item. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We've gotta have a 4 vote. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Oh. Those in favor say aye. 6 Opposed? Okay. Getting ahead of myself. Thank you. 7 Item 1.3 consider, discuss and take 8 appropriate action regarding the office location of the 9 County Treasurer and Environmental Health Department. 10 Commissioner Letz. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. This is something 12 we've discussed a number of times. The Treasurer needs 13 more space in her office, and the only available space 14 is -- that I'm aware of in the courthouse is at the 15 Environmental Health Department. And that's mainly due 16 to the fact that Reagan Givens and the deputy constables 17 and Solid Waste had moved out to the Animal Control 18 facility, so there is space in that area. 19 I originally asked both those department 20 heads and elected officials to work with Peter Lewis to 21 kind of redesign and make it -- those new office spaces 22 fit their needs the best and hopefully also give the 23 County a small conference room down there. They did 24 that. Peter did it. Got a cost estimate and the 25 estimate came in at about $250,000.00 which is, to me, 23 1 not reasonable for that, and plus the logistics of doing 2 it. 3 I think the Court is also aware that at 550 4 Earl Garrett it's likely that the first floor will 5 become available where the PDO currently has some space 6 and I my recommendation would be that Environmental 7 Health move to that building. So I just don't see any 8 reason to certainly spend a lot. In my opinion, I've 9 looked at both offices a lot, I think that the -- they 10 can just approve the Treasurer moving into Environmental 11 Health Offices, the Environmental Health just moving to 12 the Treasurer's Office. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Thought to be 14 temporary? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Temporary. And then 16 also, actually -- I mean I started thinking about it and 17 talking with Peter and saw the remodeling. Probably be 18 easier to do it this way to start with anyway and then 19 remodel once they're in their new offices. Because 20 remodeling was going to really be disruptive if we were 21 to do that. 22 So anyway, my recommendation is that we just 23 go ahead and do it. We never had really voted on doing 24 this or discussed it at the Court level, we just kind of 25 status report so I put it on the agenda. And I'll -- 24 1 I'll make a motion that we -- I don't know how to say 2 it. One of them -- may not be using the right word. 3 That we switch these two departments, the County 4 Treasurer would go into Environmental Health Offices and 5 Environmental Health would go into County Treasurer's 6 Office. That's my motion. So we can discuss it. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: If it's seconded I'll 8 make some comments. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I'll second it. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Now it's open 11 for discussion? 12 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Look, I'm the 14 liaison officer for Environmental. So I've sat with 15 Ashli and Gumaro and gone through this in detail. I 16 also met with Tracy. And look, I -- they both have 17 legitimate claims in needing a -- you know, that space. 18 And I'm -- I'm honest with you, I -- I struggle with 19 seeing who has a better claim to it, and a greater need. 20 They both have needs. That's the problem. And it's 21 going to create issues for -- well, right now it's an 22 issue for the Treasurer's Department. And if we make a 23 move, it'll be an issue for the Environmental Health 24 group. 25 So if we need to, before we make a 25 1 discussion, perhaps we should hear from both of them, 2 unless everyone else has already talked to them and have 3 a position. I don't know how quickly we can identify 4 just what's going to happen with the Earl Garrett 5 property, and if that's the solution, fine. 6 I'll offer another solution, the West Ingram 7 Annex. There's ton of space out there that could easily 8 accommodate either department. Just so -- the Treasury 9 doesn't really want to move out there. So that, too, is 10 another option and perhaps we should weigh all of the 11 available options before a final decision is made. 12 JUDGE KELLY: On the County Treasurer, 13 statutorily are they permitted to be outside the -- 14 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't know the answer to 15 that but -- yeah, I can -- but -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's not a good 17 option. That's definitely not a good option. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's more secure to be 19 here. But let me ask what other benefit -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's space. We added an 21 employee -- I don't want to speak for the Treasurer. 22 But she can get up in a moment. We added an employee to 23 that office. And the financial work that they're doing 24 is very difficult in the limited space that they have in 25 that -- there's only really two offices and a reception 26 1 area. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's not 'cuz they're 3 counting bags of money. I mean, you're sitting at a 4 computer. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're doing a lot 6 of -- I'll let Tracy -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, here -- here's my 8 question, would it be more convenient because 9 Environmental deals with people coming in and out of the 10 office and so on. Would it be easier and more 11 convenient for them to be in that other location rather 12 than people coming into the basement in the courthouse? 13 JUDGE KELLY: It would be better for parking 14 but it's -- they drive trucks and trailers so. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: See, that's what I'm 16 thinking. So if we can tell everybody why it's a good 17 idea, why it would be more convenient for the taxpayer 18 for them to get permits and things from the office, talk 19 to them in and out, so it is a -- basically for all 20 practical purposes, a retail store versus the Treasurer, 21 who's not a retail store. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm not clear. What 23 are you actually proposing, that they move where? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'm saying we need to 25 know the up and down of it. We need to know the 27 1 positive points. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If we're going to hear 4 the negative points, let's hear the positive. Will that 5 be better for the taxpayer to be over here? I know we 6 can grouse about where our chair is, and who took my 7 stapler and all that stuff here, but is it going to be 8 better for the taxpayer for Environmental to be over 9 there? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In my opinion it is 11 better for the taxpayer for them to be over there and 12 probably better for Veterans Services to be over there. 13 Because they both deal with the public a lot and, plus, 14 the Veterans Services office is -- 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's an easier in and 16 out and easier parking as the Judge said so. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, I think -- 18 I mean that's long term. And it's been -- you know, I 19 mean, I think we've talked about since we purchased that 20 building as a long-term, as an option down the road 21 depending on what happened with the PDO. Well, yeah, 22 that's the -- and I'm just not sure -- my understanding 23 is you have to get people up to speed on it is that the 24 PDO has acquired space in Boerne. And they're going to 25 move a pretty large segment of this office to Boerne. 28 1 Understanding is they're going to maintain the top floor 2 for the PDO and then it will free up the bottom floor of 3 that building without a whole lot of work. I think that 4 office could fit both Environmental Health and Veterans 5 Services very, very easily and other offices to go over 6 there as well. You know, there's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Easier access for -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Easier access. I mean 9 JP 3 may be a good option, Constable 3. Both of those 10 offices. You know. It would free up some space in this 11 building. But, you know, the immediate thing is, you 12 know, this move -- it may be a double move for 13 Environmental Health if they go over there but -- 14 anyway, it's on the agenda for us to decide. And Tracy, 15 do you want to say anything? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Just a minute. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 18 JUDGE KELLY: I want to hear from both of 19 them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Yeah. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And I've talked to both of 22 them before and both of them remember that this was part 23 of the bond issue. We were going to move the tax office 24 down to Earl Garrett. 600 Earl Garrett. And so this is 25 part of the fallout from not expanding to be able to 29 1 accommodate these moves and so now we're doing it kind 2 of on the fly. 3 So because the bond issue didn't pass and 4 things have changed and we've got to do something, 5 we've gotta make a move. So with that, I'd ask to hear 6 from -- y'all figure out who goes first, but we need to 7 hear from y'all so that the public hears what your 8 issues are. Basically, this is our County Treasurer. 9 MRS. SOLDAN: Good morning. A little over a 10 year ago, almost a year and a half ago, my office was 11 asked to take payroll on which required another 12 full-time employee. And at the time, I didn't have 13 space so my front desk person was processing payroll at 14 the front desk as people are walking in and out, which 15 is not the most secure place. I have been able to kind 16 of finagle some space for her in the back. But it's a 17 space basically about as big as this podium is what 18 she's working on with her computer and everything 19 surrounded by printers. So it's not ideal. And it's 20 been talked about for almost a year and a half to get me 21 more space. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Miss Badders. This is Ashli 23 Badders, our head of Environmental Health. 24 MRS. BADDERS: Good morning, Judge and the 25 Commissioners' Court. So I stand before you today 30 1 emphasizing the critical importance of maintaining our 2 current office space known as BA-100. This office is 3 not just a physical location; it is the lifeline of our 4 operations, providing us with the necessary space, 5 storage, and security to effectively serving the public 6 and fulfilling our responsibilities. 7 First, let us address the need for a 8 sufficient operational area. As it stands, BA-100 is 9 already adequate for our four employees of the 10 Department to maintain our current operations, work 11 flow, and customer service. By preserving this existing 12 space, we enable our OSSF employees to review plats, 13 planning materials with OSSF professionals and land 14 owners, conduct business with the public, such as walk 15 them through the permitting process and application, as 16 well as consultation on complaint cases. This 17 collaboration is vital to our work and ensures that we 18 provide the best service possible to our community. 19 In addition to fostering collaboration, 20 maintaining sufficient operational area allows the 21 accommodation of office equipment, septic and plat 22 records, office supplies and personnel. Without this 23 space, we face the challenges of a cluttered work 24 environment, restricted movement and limited 25 accessibility. By preserving our current office, we 31 1 ensure that our employees have the resources they need 2 to perform their duties efficiently and effectively. 3 Secondly, the importance of storage space 4 cannot be understated. Our office handles OSSF permits, 5 plat reviews, and complaints on a daily basis. These 6 records, including new ones, are stored and accessed in 7 various locations within BA-100. The current floor plan 8 allows for a sufficient storage area within the common 9 employee spaces as well as the additional storage closet 10 that contains the OSSF records from 1994 to the present. 11 By maintaining adequate storage, we achieve 12 organization and accessibility of working documents, 13 permits and files. This efficiency is -- this 14 efficiency in inventory management ensures that files 15 can be found promptly and retrieved easily, enabling us 16 to provide timely responses and assistance to the 17 public. Furthermore, additional storage space reduces 18 clutter and improves the overall aesthetics to the 19 office environment. 20 Without sufficient storage capacity, we face 21 the challenges of difficulty in finding and retrieving 22 items leading to delay and potential errors. Moreover, 23 there is an increase risk of damage or loss, 24 compromising the integrity of our records. To prevent 25 such issues, we must prioritize maintaining the current 32 1 storage capabilities that we have in BA-100. 2 Lastly, I would like to address the critical 3 matter of security. As Designated Representatives that 4 enforce the rules and regulations of the Texas Health 5 and Safety Code, Texas Water Code, the Texas 6 Administrative Code, investigate complaints, issue 7 Notice of Violation letters, and at times citations, it 8 is imperative that we maintain our secure door for the 9 protection of the personnel working there. 10 Our secure door serves as a physical barrier 11 to unauthorized access to enhance the safety and 12 wellbeing of our office staff and contributes to 13 maintaining the integrity of ongoing investigations by 14 protecting evidence and ensuring the confidence of 15 sensitive information. Ultimately, this allows us to 16 maintain the trust and respect of the public we serve. 17 In conclusion, the preservation of our 18 current office BA-100 is of utmost importance. By 19 maintaining sufficient operational area, storage and 20 security, we ensure that the continuity of our 21 operations, the provision of excellent customer service 22 to the public, and the protection of sensitive 23 information. 24 The size of BA-106 does not adequately meet 25 our operational needs. The structural layout at BA-106 33 1 would not allow for our furniture to fit, impede on our 2 daily work flow and customer service. 3 So I urge each and every one of you to 4 recognize the critical sense of maintaining the 5 integrity of our current working environment in BA-100 6 and provide your unwavering support, because together we 7 can continue to serve our community with excellence, 8 professionalism and the dedication they deserve. Thank 9 you. 10 JUDGE KELLY: I got a couple questions for 11 both of you. Three years ago, we appointed the capital 12 improvement planning committee to figure out what our 13 capital needs were. And we worked diligently on that. 14 The public did not agree with our plan that they came 15 together with. Three years ago when we started this 16 review process, how many employees did you have in your 17 office space that we're talking about? 18 MRS. BADDERS: Six. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Six? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or was it seven? 21 JUDGE KELLY: Seven? 22 MRS. BADDERS: Seven, yes. Later on it was 23 seven. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So you -- you've 25 accommodated up to seven, and those are pretty crowded 34 1 conditions, right? 2 MRS. BADDERS: Uh-huh. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And we were talking about 4 needing to do something, right? 5 MRS. BADDERS: (Indicating.) 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Three years ago, Tracy, 7 how many people did you have in your department? 8 MRS. SOLDAN: Two and a half. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And now, what do you have? 10 MRS. SOLDAN: Four. 11 JUDGE KELLY: And that -- now you have to do 12 the payroll function -- 13 MRS. SOLDAN: Correct. 14 JUDGE KELLY: -- is that right? 15 MRS. SOLDAN: Right. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That we asked you to do? 17 MRS. SOLDAN: Correct. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Just wanted to make 19 sure. And so, had we done the bond issue, we think this 20 would be a whole lot different, but we've gotta do this 21 piecemeal rearrangement. It's kind of like musical 22 chairs and who we've got to move where. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: But we don't have enough room 25 at this point. 35 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, just like that 2 remodel, two -- quarter million dollars, that's -- 3 that's out of the question. And that's the reason we 4 got the CIP Committee, because we said we can't spend a 5 million or whatever it was back then to rearrange the 6 bottom floor like putting lipstick on a pig, remember? 7 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. Peter Lewis came to us 8 with a plan -- 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, I know. 10 JUDGE KELLY: -- and this is just musical 11 chairs. We're just rearranging it. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. You don't get 13 anymore space. And so now here we are with this. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. And I mean, it's not 15 y'all's fault. It's not either one of y'all's fault. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No. 17 JUDGE KELLY: We understand that. We -- we 18 take -- we take the full responsibility for the dilemma 19 that we're in. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, the issue really 21 isn't that we didn't pass the bond; the issue is whether 22 she's going to stay where she is and she's going to stay 23 where she is. So I'd like for us to talk about that. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. Ashli, one 25 question. We asked Tracy how many she has, now how many 36 1 do you have now? 2 MRS. BADDERS: Four. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Four. So we went from 4 seven to four? 5 MRS. BADDERS: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Tracy went from two 7 and a half to four. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 9 MRS. BADDERS: And by moving us twice, I 10 mean, it would be ideal to move us just once because 11 that affects our operation and time is money for our 12 professionals and it's going to hinder them, too. So if 13 we're going to move, it would be ideal if we could just 14 move once. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So I'm kind of unclear 16 on why they would move twice anyway. 17 JUDGE KELLY: If we took them to 550. Our 18 long-term plan was to move Environmental down to 550. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not available yet. 21 Yet. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: When -- when is it 23 available? 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So that 25 answers -- 37 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know. 2 JUDGE KELLY: When the PDO tells us or we 3 kick them out. That's what it is. 4 MS. DOWDY: May I make a comment, please? I 5 know our -- my office works closely with both Tracy's 6 office and Ashli's office. I know the Environmental 7 Health Department brings filings to my office. Y'all 8 are out and about in vehicles anyway. But I just -- it 9 would be more efficient if their office remained in the 10 courthouse, I think. 11 And if Tracy -- everybody deposits in her 12 office, daily. That's the goal is to deposit money 13 daily. So if their office were to move off campus, 14 would y'all then drive to pick up deposits or would we 15 have to drive over there to deposit money? So I would 16 advocate for both offices to remain in the courthouse 17 just for efficiency. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody has to move. 19 MRS. DOWDY: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ultimately. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Ultimately, somebody has to 22 move. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You mentioned some 24 others that could move. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Veterans 38 1 Services. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How much -- well, 3 Veterans Services, that's not a big -- not a big office. 4 You also mentioned two downstairs, I think. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, J.P. 3 and Constable 6 3. And the reason -- that made sense. If you put 7 security over into that building. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. But those don't 9 provide much office space. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 11 JUDGE KELLY: So what we were going to do is 12 we were going to move the tax office out. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah, I remember. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Then we had that -- and the 15 Treasurer up because they have a vault up there and they 16 worked the transition. But we can't do that. So now 17 we've just got to decide who's going to be where before 18 we make the next move. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me -- you 20 know, I know it's not convenient for Environmental 21 Health but they're right next door. They have the 22 conference room they can still use. And Tracy doesn't 23 really need a conference room. And for that matter, if 24 they had to they can even use some storage there. I 25 think that from a security standpoint, the Treasurer and 39 1 the -- not really security, but the confidentiality of 2 what they're working with, having that right out there 3 on the front counter, that's not good. 4 Yes, it would be great to have a secure 5 door. And we could probably get a secure door put in 6 for Environmental Health into that office. There's the 7 plan. And I think I've showed them around, that both 8 Ashli agreed to and Tracy agreed to in moving them, so 9 it's not a square footage issue, it's a layout issue. 10 The square footage was okay in the Treasurer's Office 11 for Environmental Health. It's the security issue. And 12 the fact that there's, what, two -- really two offices 13 in your office, Tracy. 14 MRS. SOLDAN: That are usable, yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two usable offices and 16 then there's an open bull pen area. One of the 17 employees that's Environmental Health is a part time 18 employee, so it's really three and a half. I mean, I 19 don't know what the hours they're working but it's not a 20 full-time employee. So who knows how long. And I don't 21 see there's any plans for us to add a full-time employee 22 in that department. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Now that addresses 24 elbow room, but it doesn't address the storage space 25 that Ashli was talking about. 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Square footage wise she 2 came up with a plan where that -- it worked. And the 3 cost to redo all that was excessive. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We can put up with a 6 little bit of inconvenience before we spend a quarter 7 million dollars. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Absolutely. But where 9 does the storage go? 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Short term. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Where do the records 12 and the storage go? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would suspect 14 there's room to put them there because there was room in 15 the plan that was drawn up by Peter. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I don't want to 17 vote on something we only suspect is going to work. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not going to be 19 convenient. I mean, I'm not saying that. It's not 20 going to necessarily -- it's not going to be ideal for 21 the Treasurer either. It would be ideal if we'd spend a 22 quarter million dollars but I'm not in favor of that. 23 Especially when Environmental Health, I think, should 24 probably move to 550 Earl Garrett. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And the largest space 41 1 down there is maintenance. That's the largest actual 2 space there. But I don't know what it would take to 3 put -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, there would have to 5 be renovation. And it's the renovation costs because we 6 get into -- 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Probably be the same 8 thing there, huh? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: I have to remind 12 everybody there's plenty of room out at the West Annex. 13 Immediately available. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean if Ashli 15 would rather move to the West Kerr Annex, I'm in favor 16 of that. I'm not in favor of the Treasurer going out 17 there because I don't think that works. But if Ashli 18 would rather go to the West Kerr Annex -- would that 19 work? 20 MRS. BADDERS: I would like to visit that 21 area first just to see what the layout is before I 22 decide to say yes or no to that. I haven't been out 23 there except to vote, so I wouldn't know what -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Then why don't we just 25 pass on this and let -- 42 1 JUDGE KELLY: Since we don't have a clear 2 plan, why don't we just table this and take it up at our 3 next meeting -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the next meeting. 5 JUDGE KELLY: -- and y'all come back with a 6 plan. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay? 9 MRS. SHELTON: I'd like to make a comment, 10 please. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: And look at the PDO 12 Office as well. I mean -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: But the problem with 15 the PDO office, we don't know when it's going to be 16 available. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 18 JUDGE KELLY: The PDO Office can be 19 available when we want it to be available. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, we're the 21 landlord. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: There you go. Yeah. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And we have no lease. Okay. 24 And they refused to sign a lease. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So go look at them 43 1 both. 2 JUDGE KELLY: We're just trying to cooperate 3 with them. 4 MRS. SHELTON: Judge? Sorry. In the grant 5 request for the Hill Country Regional Public Defenders 6 Office, they do state a line in there that says they 7 will remain on the second floor of the Kerr County 8 Office Building at 550 Earl Garrett. So it looks like 9 from looking at the grant that starts October the 1st 10 that their plan is to move out of the bottom floor. 11 JUDGE KELLY: And that's been what the 12 discussions have been. We understand that. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So can -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: But we're trying to cooperate. 15 We're not trying to throw people out. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. Can we just 17 change the timeline here? 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, give them notice 19 and -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: Let's come back with a plan. 21 Can we do that in two weeks? Or we can come back in a 22 month, whatever it is. But let's come back with a plan. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So is that two 24 options or three options? What are the options? What 25 are we looking at as the best option? Is it to wait to 44 1 defer this until October? Is it to look at West Kerr 2 Annex? Is it to look at something different downstairs? 3 What are we talking about here? 4 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we're talking about, in 5 my opinion, is -- 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: The PDO -- 7 JUDGE KELLY: -- we've got two departments, 8 we've got a department and an office, an elected office, 9 that need to work out a workable plan of how we're going 10 to be able to accommodate their respective needs and 11 coordinate that with the liaison commissioner and 12 Commissioner Letz, who has overseen this for 27 years, 13 and come back with a plan. Whatever their 14 recommendation is. They can tell us what the options 15 are, right? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But at some point if 17 they can't agree, which they haven't up to now -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: That's what precipitated this. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's why I'm trying 20 to narrow it down. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I put this on 22 the agenda. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it would be great if 25 they could, and I know the West Kerr Annex I had not 45 1 looked at that as an option. I think that that is a -- 2 I mean, if Ashli would prefer that, I'm fine with it. 3 But it's contrary to a whole lot of things she's told me 4 in the past. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'll say what I 6 used to say to my kids. If I settle the argument, 7 nobody's going to be happy. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And that's pretty much where 9 we are. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where we are. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: And we only get one 13 vote at this. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know Tracy has 15 something to add. But let me just say something real 16 quick to Ashli. Why don't you and I and maybe somebody 17 from the Sheriff's Department go out there and look 18 sometime in the next week or this week? 19 MRS. BADDERS: Yeah. That would be great. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Tracy? 22 MRS. SOLDAN: I just wanted to -- to kind of 23 piggyback on Ashli's excellent presentation. She had 24 some great points. But I could actually take her 25 presentation and insert Treasurer's Office and HIPAA and 46 1 payroll and security and money, and it would apply to me 2 as well. So I just -- and I wanted to thank 3 Commissioner Letz for pointing that out just a few 4 minutes ago as well. The security issues and processing 5 payroll at the front counter. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And we're not -- y'all are all 7 making good points. We understand this. And your 8 offices are doing great jobs. And we're sorry to be in 9 this dilemma but this is a dilemma that we face. And 10 that's why we need you to cooperate as best you can and 11 see if y'all can come back with a joint plan that we can 12 approve. And as Harley says, you're not going to like 13 the decision we make. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: And I've heard directly 15 from both, I've sat with both and I think they have kind 16 of about an equal claim and it's going to be an 17 inconvenience to one of them. But I'm torn with making 18 that call. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: But I -- If we can look 21 at the other options and if you get comfortable with one 22 over the other, then great. That potentially is an 23 easier solution and ideally it only requires one move. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's taken up a lot of 25 time today. Let's table it. 47 1 Moving on to Item 1.4 consider, discuss and 2 take appropriate action to accept donations totalling 3 $60.00 for the month of May 2023 to be added to the 4 Operating Expense. Reagan Givens. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: This oughta be a 6 little quicker. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Motion to approve. 8 MR. GIVENS: Just standard monthly deposits. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I've already got a motion to 10 approve. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And a second. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: All in favor? 14 JUDGE KELLY: All in favor? Sorry, Reagan. 15 We got it. 16 1.5 consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action to authorize Enterprise Fleet to order two new 18 2024 Dodge Ram pickups prior to budgeting request that 19 will be submitted. Reagan Givens. 20 MR. GIVENS: Okay. So -- and I know this is 21 kind of putting the cart before the horse here a little 22 bit. I am coming to you guys with a budget request that 23 I've already put in, but we will talk about through the 24 workshops about two new vehicles. 25 I believe last year I might have heard 48 1 somebody in here kind of trying to do this same type of 2 thing, basically ordering vehicles before it's been 3 approved through the budget process for next year. If 4 you guys don't approve through the budget process, we 5 can cancel the order. But what I'm trying to do here is 6 when they have a window of opportunity for taking these 7 orders, go ahead and get that ball rolling so that we're 8 not trying to do this in October and then having a 9 possible up to a year wait. 10 So like I say, if you approve for me to go 11 ahead and order these vehicles, if at any point it looks 12 like we're not going to do that we can cancel. There's 13 no kind of penalties. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We did that last year 15 with the same type deal because we knew we could cancel. 16 But it'S getting the ball rolling ahead of time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I'm in favor. 18 JUDGE KELLY: It's unorthodox -- 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know it is. 20 JUDGE KELLY: -- but practical. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But with the problem we 22 have with vehicles, I'll make a motion to authorize -- 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we'll get them 25 this year. 49 1 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second 2 to authorize ordering two Dodge Ram pickups for the 3 Animal Services department. Any other discussion? 4 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Abstain? Unanimous. 5 Item 1.6 consider, discuss and take 6 appropriate action to approve the service agreement 7 between the Department of Information Resources 8 Communications Technology Services Division and the Kerr 9 County Sheriff's Office. 10 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. Court, I'm looking 11 for y'all's approval to be able to set up a DIR account. 12 The reason for this account is for us to hopefully get 13 better pricing than from commercial businesses. Just so 14 y'all know, this line that -- we're needing a fiber 15 optic line from the Sheriff's Office to the Court in San 16 Antonio. You know, we're still looking at being live in 17 June but, you know, that's -- that process starts right 18 now. So I'm just looking for y'all's approval to be 19 able to apply and set up the account. You know, it 20 won't cost anything to do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the purpose of 22 this? 23 SHERIFF LEITHA: So the DIR pricing which 24 is, you know, better than the public. You know, it's 25 kind of like the AT&T contracts where we you know we get 50 1 a set price. But we can't get that price until we apply 2 to set up the account. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I move for 4 approval. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 6 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 7 second to approve approving the application for the -- 8 I'm going to call it DIR-CTS to abbreviate, that's the 9 acronym for it. 10 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yes. Would you tell 13 everybody what that means, Larry? 14 SHERIFF LEITHA: DIR is the Department of 15 Information Resources Communications Technology Service 16 Division. It's a mouthful. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Meaning though, what? 18 SHERIFF LEITHA: Like I said, this is for us 19 to -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It's useful for what? 21 SHERIFF LEITHA: To get better pricing for 22 our fiber optic line. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And what do you use the 24 fiber optic line between that and -- between here and 25 San Antonio for? 51 1 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. That will make our 2 new radio system work. So technical function. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what I'm trying 4 to get to. 5 SHERIFF LEITHA: There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Add batteries. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Add batteries. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 10 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 11 SHERIFF LEITHA: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thank you, Sheriff. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.7 consider, discuss and 14 take appropriate action to authorize the County Judge to 15 accept grant funding from FY 2022 Operation Stone 16 Garden. This is a project in Sutton County. Scott 17 Gaige. 18 MR. GAIGE: Good morning. Like I said 19 before, we applied for -- or the Court authorized us to 20 apply for the grant. Now that it's been awarded, we 21 just need to have the Court allow the Judge to go into 22 eGrants and accept the reward for $44,197.00. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion -- 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 52 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 2 JUDGE KELLY: -- and a second to approve the 3 Stone Garden -- Operation Stone Garden grant funding 4 project. Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 5 Thank you. 6 Item 1.8 consider, discuss and take 7 appropriate action to review membership of Kerr County 8 Animal Services Advisory Committee and make appointments 9 as may be needed. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 11 because the -- part of our agreement that we used to 12 have with the City was that they had a representative on 13 our -- the Kerr County Animal Control Services. And 14 that committee has been very helpful. I think it really 15 improved communications from our department and the 16 public. And one of the leaders of that committee has 17 been Karen Guerriero and she happens to be the City 18 representative. So my recommendation would be, I'll 19 make a motion that we appoint Karen Guerriero to that 20 committee. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second that. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Who else is on the 25 committee, let me ask that? 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Phyllis -- Phyllis -- 2 gosh. Phyllis. Runs the Freeman and Fritts. And 3 Dr. Goodnight from Kerrville Veterinary Hospital. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Is Reagan still here? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Freeman-Fritts representative. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Freeman-Fritts, Karen, 7 myself, Reagan, and Dr. Goodnight. So there's five. 8 And it works out. They all attend. The meetings are 9 well attended. They're posted. They're public 10 meetings, would allow public participation just because 11 it's very productive. 12 JUDGE KELLY: I can truthfully say that I've 13 been to the meetings. They are very actively 14 participating in this process and they do very 15 worthwhile work. And Karen has been an integral part of 16 that process. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: I have nothing against 18 Karen. I know she does a great job and I'm okay to 19 appoint Karen. I just want to be clear that the 20 Interlocal Agreement is defunct and no longer in place 21 and that she's not a representative of the City Council. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's why -- 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: It's just herself. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're just appointing 25 her as a County representative. 54 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's fine. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a county 3 representative. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a city 6 representative. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Want to be clear on 8 that. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, actually I consider her 10 to be a representative of the KPA and that's Kerrville 11 Pets Alive. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. Yeah. That's 13 fine. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. And that's Kerrville 15 Pets Alive. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 19 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 20 Item 1.9 consider, discuss and take 21 appropriate action to approve documents related to the 22 new Animal Control Facility, The Texas Antiquities 23 Permit Application, and a Governmental Agency Curation 24 Agreement. 25 It has me down here, but really, you know 55 1 more about that than I do, Commissioner Letz. 2 But wait. We have to do certain things and 3 we have to pay for permits to do and this is what we 4 have to do in order to be able to get the animal 5 services facility approved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's basically it. 7 Because we're government we have to do a lot of things 8 that the public doesn't have to do and all kinds of 9 environmental EPA tests and antiquities studies and 10 things of that nature on the entire property. 11 It raised a flag with the Texas Antiquities 12 Community in Austin, primarily because it's right next 13 to a very old historic cemetery and a VA cemetery. And 14 because of the proximity, it actually borders both those 15 cemeteries, especially I think the -- from the 16 Antiquities standpoint the -- the Brown Cemetery. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Joshua Brown. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all know who Joshua 19 Brown is, he's the founder of Kerr County. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That is important. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's kind of an 22 important person. And the concern is that the boundary 23 of that, where the fence is, is actually where the 24 boundary of the graves are. There's no graves onto our 25 property. And it's been verified that. And also, it 56 1 looks for other historic artifacts. So anyway, 2 something that's required as part of this. I'll make a 3 motion that we approve and authorize the County Judge to 4 sign. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 7 approve making these applications and applying for 8 permits. That is the -- we've got the VA cemetery out 9 there. While we're talking about Joshua Brown, we 10 certainly don't want to disrespect the founding families 11 of this County, but at the same time we need to respect 12 that if we have got some fallen heroes out there we need 13 to make sure that they're properly respected. And 14 that's for the veterans sake. So I see this as a 15 no-brainer. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm happy to do it as 17 well, just particularly from the standpoint we need to 18 know before we put that property up for sale because I 19 hope that's what we do with it after the new Animal 20 Control facility is -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this is the new 22 facility. This is the new one. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh, it's for the new 24 one? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 57 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh, I misunderstood. 2 Okay. Well, then yeah. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, that's more important. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we have to do -- 5 well, there will be some others that come up. Other 6 engineering firms that specialize in the Endangered 7 Species Act and -- 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Somewhere in that 16 9 acres, isn't it? 10 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. No, on the 16 acres off 11 of Spur 100. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: I've gotcha. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And we've already talked to 14 some of the Brown family members and the historical 15 people, as well as the VA people, that we're going to 16 build a privacy fence of some sort to be able to respect 17 that they're not looking into what we're doing with 18 County business. But we need to make sure that we put 19 the fence in the right place and we don't put the fence 20 on top of somebody that needs to be honored. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Right. So that 22 cleared the picture. 23 JUDGE KELLY: With that, those in favor say 24 aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 25 Okay. Let's take a five minute break and 58 1 we'll come back and we have ten o'clock items. 2 (Recess) 3 JUDGE KELLY: Court is now back in session. 4 The next item on the agenda is a 10:00 o'clock timed 5 item 1.10, which is a public hearing regarding the 6 installation of "No Parking" signs on Kelly Street at 7 FM 480 just west of FM 480. And that's going to be 8 Miss Hoffer. 9 MS. HOFFER: Public hearing. 10 JUDGE KELLY: So it's a public hearing. I 11 want to bring you all in. 12 MS. HOFFER: Yes, uh-huh. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So this is a public hearing. 14 I've convened the public hearing. If there is anyone 15 here that would like to address the Court on this topic, 16 this is the time. And I've got one person that signed 17 up to speak. Mr. Graham, I don't know if you want to 18 speak on 10 or you wanted to wait until we actually get 19 to the action item on 11? 20 MR. GRAHAM: 11 is fine. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So no one else is 22 wanting to speak to the Court. We'll adjourn from the 23 public meeting. 24 We'll move on to Item 1.11, which is to 25 consider, discuss and take appropriate action for the 59 1 Commissioners' Court approval regarding the installation 2 of "No Parking" signs on Kelly Street at FM 480. 3 Ms. Hoffer. 4 MS. HOFFER: Yes. Commissioner Paces made a 5 request to Road and Bridge for "No Parking" signs to be 6 installed on Kelly Street just west of FM 480. There is 7 a business at this location that fronts FM 480 that has 8 made traveling on Kelly Street at this location 9 challenging because of how narrow it is and that cars 10 park on both sides of the road at this location. The 11 Center Point VFD uses Kelly Street to do emergency 12 services. We've included a map from the engineering 13 office for location of signs. 14 Commissioner Paces met with the Sheriff's 15 Department, Engineering, and Road & Bridge to discuss 16 the options on Thursday, April 27th, 2023. 17 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 18 for their final approval regarding the installation of 19 "No Parking" signs on Kelly Street just west of FM 480. 20 And that's in Precinct 2. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll make a motion that 22 we approve the installation of "No Parking" signs on 23 Kelly Street in the right-of-way near FM 480. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So we've got a motion and a 60 1 second to approve the proposal of placing "No Parking" 2 signs on Kelly Street at FM 480. Any discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, let me give you 4 just a little bit of background, too, on -- you know, I 5 received numerous complaints from residents who live on 6 Kelly Street because, look, Center Point is growing. 7 And it's great that we've got General Commissary and 8 other businesses that are serving the public and, you 9 know, parking is a problem in Center Point. 10 So while I encourage the business and I'm so 11 happy to see it, we still have to protect the safety and 12 welfare of the public. And having cars parked on both 13 sides of the road and particularly what's already a very 14 narrow road and they're already in the right-of-way 15 which that's a TxDOT violation to park in their 16 right-of-way. And you get, at some points in time, it 17 becomes a one-lane road. And for people who live on 18 Kelly Street, it's a real problem. 19 It's also a problem for the fire department 20 because occasionally if there's a problem on Skyline 21 Drive, which is our primary egress and ingress, we have 22 to use Kelly Street. And you cannot get a fire truck 23 down that street when cars are on both sides. So 24 that -- that's what was driving all this. And I've made 25 a motion to do it. 61 1 MR. GRAHAM: Can I address the Court? 2 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. Please identify 3 yourself. 4 MR. GRAHAM: Yes, sir. Thank you. 5 Commissioners and Judge Kelly, thank you. My name is 6 Justin W. Graham. I live at 542 Kelly Street in Center 7 Point, Texas for over the last ten years. And I'm also 8 a co-partial owner of the business at 227 County Road 9 480 at the intersection. And while I understand the 10 concern here, it is viable that new businesses form in 11 the community. It is very tight in parking. Will you 12 please display that image? What I'm looking at, guys, 13 the Court, is really here are some measurements if we -- 14 if we get it up there. 15 One intersection down here seems to 16 compromise with the proposed -- there we go. I'm 17 looking for a compromise here. I spoke to the 18 landowners and understand that there is a potential 19 there, there's 35 foot of space between the buildings. 20 Now on the south side of the street, you have about four 21 and a half feet before you get the stop sign 22 infrastructure and the KPUB infrastructure that exists. 23 But here on the north side, every parking 24 space matters to us in Center Point. There's two 25 businesses that sprung up there last year and there's a 62 1 third on the way. And so as small business owners in 2 Kerr County, we need every parking space that we can 3 get. 4 And so I would like to just propose that we 5 take a closer look at this before we blanket anything 6 quickly, and realize that there is about ten foot of 7 compact car parking space that can be added there, that 8 we can -- we can let rest, and according to business 9 owners or the land owner, he is fine with that. 10 In Center Point itself, you know, our 11 biggest concern as far as public safety, in essential 12 that still leaves 20 foot for a trailered vehicle or a 13 Ford F350 with a trailer on it to navigate through 14 there, whether they're coming in or coming out, whether 15 they're headed north or south. And I think 20 foot is 16 ample for the -- our neighbors there in Center Point for 17 a fire truck to exit, should they need to. 18 Now, in the ten years I've lived there, 19 primarily they exit Skyline, which has ample space. 20 And, in fact, that's their quickest route. The corner 21 of my street on Kelly, where my entrance and my home is 22 and my neighbors to the east and to the southeast, is a 23 tight turn anyway. And it's a difficult place to take 24 Kelly. But I do understand that from the point, you 25 know, 0.3 percent of the time where there might be 63 1 something blocking Skyline. 2 Where our greatest concerns rather, and we 3 invite Commissioner Paces and Mrs. Hoffer to join us is 4 on the ground, it has to do with speed and traffic 5 violations on 480 during times of business, during times 6 when there's pedestrians crossing, during times when 7 there's elderly or handicapped getting out of the 8 businesses there that have arrived in Center Point, 9 whether it's on the north side or the south side of that 10 block of very fast, 40 mile an hour into 30, coming up 11 out of a blind river bridge straight into downtown. Or 12 coming headed north, and that's a little drag race strip 13 right through there if you ever go -- if you live in 14 Center Point or drive through there from that chicane 15 turn where we recently had a vehicle coming through 16 there too fast and he rolled over and took out 17 infrastructure. It's a dangerous little curve and so 18 there just really needs to be a strong look at lowering 19 some speed limits there or just enforcing the current 20 speed limit, maybe trim the trees so people can see the 21 signs. 22 I do know that headed north there's a little 23 bit of that. And I was just driving by one of these 24 days, I got some blockage in the back of my truck. But 25 anyhow. That's where I would like to see it, rather 64 1 just a good look at this instead of action taken today. 2 Take a look at that. Because it's going to matter to 3 us. It is a small town and we're small businesses. And 4 so every parking spot that we can fight for, we need it. 5 And we need -- we need a little bit more in regards to 6 just how people drive through the downtown area. So 7 that's about all I have, gentlemen. I think -- 8 VOICE: You covered it. 9 MR. GRAHAM: Okay. Appreciate it. Thank 10 you very much, gentlemen. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: Thanks for the 12 comments. Just make a couple points. In terms of the 13 speed limit on 480, I absolutely agree. And both the 14 speed limit coming up the bridge when it turns into 30, 15 I'd like to see that bridge be 30 mile an hour the whole 16 way from 27. Requests have been made to TxDOT; it is 17 not a County matter. It's totally up to TxDOT. And I 18 continue to follow-up with TxDOT to try to convince them 19 to lower the speed limit there, and also to lower the 20 speed limit as you make that turn. Because I agree 21 that's also very unsafe. So I'm on it. But again, 22 that's a TxDOT issue. 23 Now, what you're asking for in the parking 24 is actually also a TxDOT issue, because you are in their 25 right-of-way with that ten-foot zone right up to the 65 1 corner. And already it's illegal to park there. So you 2 would have to get an exception from TxDOT to actually do 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is that TxDOT? 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, it's a farm to 6 ranch road. 7 (Talking over.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to that picture. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That would mean 10 everything along there -- 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Could you pull that 12 last picture back up? 13 (Talking over) 14 COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. One at a time. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't put -- we don't 16 have authority to put a stop sign on TxDOT right-of-way. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I can tell 18 you -- 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Kelly, is that within 20 theirs or not? Maybe I misstated. 21 MS. HOFFER: I'd have to really look at it. 22 It might be in line with the buildings. It might be 23 where the TxDOT right-of-way ends. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Put the picture back up. 25 MR. GRAHAM: If you would pull this up. And 66 1 you can get a good look. So there you have one compact 2 vehicle that's snugged up there. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Is that looking -- that's 4 looking east? 5 MR. GRAHAM: That is looking east, yes, sir. 6 And that car is on the north side of Kelly Street there. 7 And then the KPUB infrastructure is there. So it's 8 logical, yes, that we have a crowded street there. 9 Folks have come in, and you can imagine that there's 10 four and a half foot from the building on the south side 11 from the KPUB infrastructure, and so a vehicle parking 12 there that takes up the width of seven and a half feet 13 puts them, yes, out there. And that's -- that's a log 14 jam. And I do understand the fire department's request. 15 Because it does need to be clear for emergency vehicles. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Graham, let me clarify so 17 everybody understands what we're looking at here. This 18 is on Kelly Street looking east. And the building on 19 the left where the vehicle's parked is the north side of 20 the street. And the narrow strip on the other side is 21 the south side of the street. Is that right? 22 MR. GRAHAM: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm looking at 24 Miss Hoffer, we know that 480 is a Texas highway, TxDOT 25 highway. How far up Kelly Street does TxDOT have 67 1 authority -- or do they have authority at all? 2 MS. HOFFER: According to the map I've got, 3 TxDOT right-of-way is in line with the front of those 4 buildings that front FM 480. 5 JUDGE KELLY: That's what I thought. And so 6 what we're talking about, whether it's on the north side 7 or the south side of the street, Mr. Graham, that's a 8 County jurisdiction. It's not a Texas jurisdiction. 9 MR. GRAHAM: It's not a state. 10 JUDGE KELLY: And so what the proposal is, 11 is on the south side of the street, am I right 12 Ms. Hoffer? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And north. 14 MS. HOFFER: Both sides. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Put "No Parking" signs on both 16 sides? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would be -- 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: And there was a "No 19 Parking" sign way back. But I mean -- you can see the 20 post and the sign but you can't read it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would be in favor 22 of -- 23 MS. HOFFER: We also couldn't find a court 24 order for it either. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the first step is to 68 1 put them on the south side and leave them off on the 2 north side for the time being. And then if it continues 3 to be a problem. We can always add them on the north 4 side. 5 MR. HASTINGS: That's a good compromise. 6 The south side also has the Road & Bridge office there. 7 And they've gotta get equipment out 3:00 o'clock in the 8 morning in bad storms or whatnot. Can't have vehicles 9 in the way. 10 MR. GRAHAM: And generally our business 11 hours only last until about 9:00 p.m. And that's just a 12 limited week, Wednesdays through Saturdays. In fact, we 13 close at 6:00 or 7:00 on Wednesdays and Thursdays. So 14 it -- it -- this does make an impact. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I think we understand. 16 Miss Hoffer, what's your input on that proposal? 17 MS. HOFFER: That would be fine with me. I 18 mean I wouldn't -- I wouldn't have a problem. 19 JUDGE KELLY: So if we started with putting 20 "No Parking" signs on the south side from here -- 21 MS. HOFFER: Where that -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: -- on the south side of the 23 street -- 24 MS. HOFFER: -- utility pole is on that 25 side, yes. 69 1 JUDGE KELLY: -- and let's see how that 2 works out. Are you willing to amend your -- 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm willing to go along 4 with it, but I'm nervous. Because -- I mean, just look 5 at that vehicle right there in the photo. That door 6 opens at the wrong time, somebody's trying to get out of 7 that car -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: That's true on all the 9 streets. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well -- 11 MR. GRAHAM: Commissioner Paces, I will say 12 this in regard to that comment, is the folks that are 13 turning in on Kelly Street -- 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 15 MR. GRAHAM: -- aren't going as fast as they 16 are when they come out of the river bottom. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: I understand. 18 MR. GRAHAM: Or are they coming down that 19 little straight of way when they get downtown from the 20 south. In fact, we know every -- just nearly everyone 21 that lives on this side, the west side of the street. 22 I've been there a little while, and they're all 23 professional drivers from what I can tell and 24 conscientious. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: I don't know about that 70 1 part of it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, Center Point 3 has -- they really acknowledge there's a huge driving 4 problem and parking problem. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: Absolutely. That's why 6 it's on the agenda. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Always has. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I'm willing to 10 make that compromise for now. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Is that a motion? And 12 you accept the amendment? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 JUDGE KELLY: So now we have -- 15 MR. HASTINGS: I would like to add some 16 confusion. Where that car is parked, there is an 17 existing "No Parking" sign that's very faded. And we 18 were anticipating if both sides got taken care of that 19 that sign would be replaced with something new that we 20 could read. We would like for it to be in the record, 21 that we're going to remove the existing sign that's on 22 the north side. There's no court order behind it. We 23 don't know if it's a public -- if someone just put that 24 up on their own or -- we don't know. We don't have any 25 record of it. But if we don't remove it, then 71 1 somebody's going to be back later going, what is this? 2 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. Good. Are you -- do 3 you want to amend your motion. 4 MR. HASTINGS: It will be removed. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: I amend my motion. 6 JUDGE KELLY: So the motion is amended to 7 include removing the old faded "No Parking" sign on the 8 north side of the street. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. And we'll make 10 it -- no parking from 480 all the way down past -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County yard. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- the County yard. 13 Yeah. Road & Bridge yard. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 16 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. Thank you. 17 Good compromise. 18 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 19 JUDGE KELLY: The next timed item on the 20 agenda is 1.12 discussion regarding the traffic safety 21 concerns and the setback variance at 1605 Hunt Group LLC 22 project located at the intersection of State Highway 39 23 and Farm to Market Road 1340 in Hunt, Texas. Mr. Lowe. 24 MR. LOWE: Good morning, Judge Kelly, 25 Commissioners. My name is Mike Lowe. I am better known 72 1 as Laurie's husband. 2 (Laughter.) 3 I live at 1767 Highway 39 in beautiful 4 downtown Hunt in Precinct 405. I had a career in 5 commercial general construction in and around Kerr 6 County for 25 years. I am a citizen of Hunt who has 7 concerns about the real estate development at the 8 intersection of Highway 39 and Highway 1340 or 1605 9 Highway 39. Our group of citizens is here to present 10 information to the Court and hope that you will find it 11 useful as you consider this development. We are here as 12 friends of the Court. We are here not to confront or to 13 impede. Our presentation today comes from two important 14 directions. Both are concerns that are important to the 15 citizens of Hunt. 16 The first of those concerns is from a 17 traffic safety standpoint. We have retained the 18 services of an expert witness, Mr. John Devares. John 19 will speak about line of sight issues that exist on that 20 stretch of Highway 39 and other issues, traffic issues 21 on the site. 22 The second concern the Hunt citizens have is 23 from a process standpoint. Mr. Richard Mosty will be 24 presenting in agenda item 1.14. The people of Hunt have 25 questions about what they see at that development. 73 1 They're common sense questions. One might be, why is 2 the developer working on the site without an approved 3 plat with the County? 4 In my career, never once did we turn a 5 shovel until we had approvals from all regulatory 6 agencies and notice to proceed from the owner, but yet, 7 we have a completed septic system on the property now. 8 Another example or question the Hunt 9 residents have is concerning the setback variance. The 10 subdivision rules say that you cannot grant a variance 11 based solely on economic hardship. Yet, that is exactly 12 what the developer uses as his basis for a variance. 13 Paragraph 6.09.80 tells us that financial hardship 14 standing alone shall not be deemed to constitute an 15 undue hardship or special circumstance to support a 16 variance. 17 In the application for variance, the 18 developer is asked the following: Please state all 19 reasons to support your variance request as well as the 20 specific relief that you request from the County. The 21 developer's response was, and I quote, "A 50-foot 22 setback makes the property undevelopable." 23 Undevelopable is a cost to construct term that means too 24 costly. This alone is enough to reject the variance 25 requested. 74 1 In my 35 years of development and 2 construction, I have never seen a setback variance 3 granted for economic reasons alone. 4 Back to the presentation. John Devares will 5 present first. When John's done, the owner of the Hunt 6 Store will have a brief list of citizens concerns. Last 7 will be Linda Farren, a business owner and longtime 8 resident in Hunt. She, too, will be presenting a brief 9 list of concerns. Continuing with our presentation, 10 Mr. John Devares. 11 MR. DEVARES: Thank you all and good 12 afternoon. As Mike said -- as Mike mentioned, my name 13 is John Devares. I was retained by some residents here 14 in Hunt to look at a -- from a safety standpoint the 15 intersection of -- at the intersection of State Highway 16 39 and FM 1340 to do kind of a safety review. 17 I do own a small engineering firm, Entheos 18 Engineering, that is located in Bastrop, Texas. Maybe 19 that's why I'm here. But anyway, so I wanted to briefly 20 go over some of my experience with TxDOT. I'm a retired 21 TxDOT engineer. I was with TxDOT for 30 years. The 22 last seven years of my employment was in the traffic 23 office. I was the Austin District traffic engineer 24 responsible for 11 counties. Everything traffic related 25 in 11 counties. 75 1 One of the biggest responsibilities in my 2 office was traffic safety. And so I'm very familiar 3 with traffic safety. Our office, I was the co-chair of 4 our district traffic safety team. This is a team that 5 we would evaluate all the traffic fatalities that 6 occurred in our district. I was tasked to go and look 7 at those, evaluate those, and look for some type of 8 safety concerns or safety implementations that we can 9 put out to the roadway. We looked at an average of 200 10 traffic facilities a year. So I'm very familiar with 11 looking at, unfortunately, traffic fatalities and 12 safety. 13 The other thing we did that all of us are 14 responsible for are driveway permits. So I'm very 15 familiar with driveway permits. Driveway permits that 16 we would receive are permits that would come from, you 17 know, the area. TxDOT area office and maintenance 18 offices, they would also approve driveway permits. 19 Well, we received the most difficult ones. We received 20 the ones that are a little more challenging, you know. 21 So it might need a little bit more engineering to that. 22 So I'm very familiar also with that approval process for 23 driveway permits and design criteria that's involved in 24 approving these permits. 25 And so the last piece of information on my 76 1 experience that I think is applicable to this is, I was 2 also on the design committee for TxDOT for the Austin 3 district. We looked at all design variances. Design 4 exceptions came to our office. Came to our -- I was one 5 of four. And so I was looking at the safety and 6 mobility of these design sessions. 7 I looked at projects that were a hundred 8 million, two hundred million dollar projects. Design 9 build projects. Toll road projects. And everything 10 from that to bridge construction, intersection 11 construction. The point is anytime there was a design 12 exception submitted, my office, we looked at them and I 13 was -- had to provide my expertise. 14 Sometimes when looking at design exceptions, 15 you may solve one problem but then you may create 16 another. So that's why it's important to look at 17 everything. We would look at constructability. And we 18 looked at mobility. We looked at everything involved 19 with the approval of these design exceptions. 20 So this -- I want to bring that up. And I 21 apologize because I think that's applicable to what 22 we'll be discussing today. So let's go ahead and get 23 started with the PowerPoint presentation. 24 As mentioned, I was asked on behalf of the 25 Hunt residents to look at the safety review for State 77 1 Highway 39 and FM 1340. This is a table of contents. 2 Some of the things that we're going to be looking at. 3 We'll start off with the location map. So just to bring 4 everyone up to speed where we're at, you know, the -- my 5 pointer doesn't work. But we have SH 39, I guess maybe 6 going east to west. Average daily traffic on that 7 roadway is 3,086 vehicles a day. This is a 2021 count, 8 so it's not the most current. But it was the most 9 current according to our TxDOT statewide planning map. 10 This is where these numbers came from. 11 The 2041 average daily traffic was 4,320 12 vehicles on State Highway 39. We had a 24-hour truck 13 traffic of 6.7 percent. Vehicles -- truck traffic. So 14 that's approximately 6.7 percent of the 3,086 average 15 daily traffic are -- were estimated to be trucks. So, 16 you know, that's about 180, maybe just under 200 trucks 17 a day back on 2021. 18 So State Highway 39 is a two lane. I went 19 out and measured the lanes. They're 12-foot lanes, one 20 in each direction. Three-foot shoulders on both sides. 21 If we look at FM 1340, jumping over to -- this is a 22 T-intersection, 2021 average daily traffic, 1,653. 2041 23 average daily traffic, 2,314. The 24-hour truck 24 traffic, about 9.3 percent, almost ten -- not quite ten 25 percent. So there again, you're looking at about -- 78 1 probably about 150 large vehicles, trucks, going through 2 that intersection off of FM 1340. 3 The development location is right at the 4 T-intersection, the one we're looking at. Now usually 5 when I have a location map, I would provide the site 6 plan. I would provide some type of site plan at that 7 intersection so you could see how that affects along 8 with driveway location. Unfortunately, I was not able 9 to -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A quick question on your 11 numbers before you get too far ahead. 12 MR. DEVARES: Go ahead. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does -- does the numbers 14 on 1340, they are already in the Highway 39 numbers or 15 is 39 numbers taken up Highway 39 so they're not double 16 digit? 17 MR. DEVARES: No, that's a great question. 18 They're separate. They're separate. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the 39 is up -- 20 MR. DEVARES: 39 -- I don't know exactly 21 where that is taken, but the intent for State Highway 39 22 is for the traffic numbers for State Highway 39. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Those traffic numbers on 39 24 are taken right in front of my house. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's -- so the 79 1 traffic on -- in front of your house, Judge, includes 2 those that are going to go up 1340? 3 VOICE: I think so. 4 JUDGE KELLY: No, not necessarily. They go 5 out 439. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 439. They go out one or 7 the other. 8 MR. DEVARES: You know, there may be some 9 traffic that comes off of 39 and goes up FM 1340. I 10 mean, I -- you know, there's -- but -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: You know, before we get away 12 from this, I better clarify. That's my wife's house. I 13 don't want to say it's mine because it's not. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure 15 I understand it. Because, I mean, it's -- if you're 16 comparing apples to apples, it seems that 39 should have 17 been counted up by the post office. 18 MR. DEVARES: So -- so -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean it's still a lot 20 of traffic. 21 MR. DEVARES: Right. And this is industry 22 standard. This is what we use in TxDOT. So whenever 23 we're going to a new project, we go by this format. So 24 I'm just going off of what I'm used to. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: While you're 80 1 interrupted let me ask you a question as well. 2 MR. DEVARES: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What are you calling 4 trucks? 5 MR. DEVARES: Trucks are anything larger 6 than a passenger vehicle. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 8 MR. DEVARES: I mean a passenger vehicle 9 like, you know, your 18-wheelers or even your box 10 trucks, you know. Those are the larger vehicles. 11 The development location -- the big thing 12 about the development location, I could not identify -- 13 I couldn't find a site plan. I looked. And so 14 that's -- that was one of the things that was really a 15 little bit troubling to me because when I do these 16 safety reviews, I want to have a site plan so when I'm 17 giving information I want it to be the most accurate. 18 But I was not able to identify or find a site plan. So 19 I'm just letting you know on that. 20 So let's talk a little bit about the 21 variance that was approved. I was given some 22 information on the site, and one of the documents that I 23 received was a variance document. So just a little bit 24 of a timeline. The variance was received by Kerr County 25 4-28-23. Approved by here, the meeting minutes on -- I 81 1 looked up the meeting minutes, 4-28-23. That's fine. 2 The developer was seeking a variance to reduce the 3 setback from 50 foot to 25 foot. 4 I went out to the site just to look and I 5 could see there's a big drop off. And I can see why the 6 developer would be requesting that. So, you know, the 7 question -- and also on the document, which Mike had 8 mentioned earlier that I picked up on as well, was the 9 reason for approval was because the current 50 foot 10 setback would make property undevelopable. And so -- 11 okay. 12 And then my question again, was a site plan 13 evaluated prior to the approval of the variance? I 14 couldn't find the site plan. So -- but, you know, for 15 me, my experience -- and I'm reflecting -- I'm going 16 back on my engineering experience. Anytime there's a 17 design exception or something I'm used to seeing the 18 design. Because I don't want to approve something and 19 create a bigger problem down the line. So approving -- 20 you know, if you approve this, how do you know how that 21 affects the safety? How do you know how that affects 22 the other aspects if you don't have a complete picture 23 of what's being looked at? So that was one of the 24 things. 25 And what I found through my experience is 82 1 that usually constructability and cost of project kind 2 goes against safety and mobility. It's always, you 3 know, if there's a constructability issue, you can fix 4 that. But then maybe your safety mobility suffers a 5 little bit. So as we go through this, I'm going to 6 point out some of the areas where this may be the case. 7 Okay. Let's talk about sight distance and 8 sight distance in general. I know this is probably a 9 refresher for a lot of you. This is pretty straight 10 forward. Site distance is the distance, the length of 11 the roadway ahead that is visible to the driver. It's 12 just like if you look out ahead, that's your site 13 distance. But let's talk about stopping sight distance. 14 What is stopping sight distance. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Devares, let me stop you. 16 Because we're running out of time. This was supposed to 17 be five minutes a person. And you're well passed that. 18 MR. DEVARES: I'm sorry. 19 JUDGE KELLY: And our County Clerk had to 20 leave. And I'm pretty sure, Ian, you didn't know you're 21 the one that's supposed to time these talks. 22 COUNTY CLERK: That was not made apparent to 23 me, but I -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: We're very familiar with your 25 credentials. 83 1 MR. DEVARES: Okay. 2 JUDGE KELLY: You're no stranger to this 3 court. We've looked at your work in other subdivisions 4 here in the County. And -- and I'm -- I'm satisfied 5 that you have sufficient expertise to advise us on this. 6 MR. DEVARES: Okay. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I hear the deficiencies that 8 you've outlined in the fact that you did not see a site 9 plan and there's this development -- undevelopability 10 issue. If you could hit the highlights for us -- 11 MR. DEVARES: Okay. 12 JUDGE KELLY: -- I think we can get through 13 this a whole lot quicker. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- 15 MR. DEVARES: And I apologize. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question that I have 17 is the focus on this. This is a state highway and you 18 certainly have experience and understand that this is a 19 state highway. Does not TxDot have to approve that 20 driveway permit for any -- 21 MR. DEVARES: I think they do. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- location, for 23 anything? So this is a TxDOT issue. This is not a 24 County issue, correct? 25 MR. DEVARES: It's partly. And I'm going to 84 1 show you why here, why it could be also because the 2 County has a role in it as well. You know, and -- 3 but -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TxDOT, in my mind -- I 5 don't mean to argue with you. But TxDOT has never come 6 to this Court to ask us for anything. Other then the 7 long-term planning. They don't come to -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Maybe he can show us 9 how to change that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. DEVARES: If you can just give me five 12 more minutes. This is really the big thing right here. 13 The sight -- there's a -- when you look at sight 14 distance, there's two things that are involved with 15 sight distance. You have brake reaction distance. 16 That's the distance that it takes you to go from your 17 accelerator to your brake. 18 You could be traveling a certain speed. You 19 see a deer come out and when you're -- when you go from 20 your accelerator to your brake. Based on how fast 21 you're going, you travel a certain distance. When you 22 actually apply the brake and you come to a stop, that's 23 your braking distance. So when you add those two 24 together, that gives you your stopping sight distance. 25 This is computed by a distance -- the way 85 1 you compute this is, if you can imagine somebody sitting 2 in a vehicle, three and a half foot high, your eyesight, 3 and you're looking out at an object two foot high, 4 that's your straight line distance that you are 5 calculating for your stopping sight distance. The 3.5 6 foot is very important and I'll get to why that is in 7 just a moment. 8 Let's look at what we have on State 9 Highway 39. The design speed or the posted speed is 35 10 miles an hour. You have a hundred and -- I can't 11 really -- 123 maybe, 123 foot, 123.6 feet of reaction, 12 brake reaction distance. And that brake reaction 13 distance, again, is just going from your accelerator to 14 your brake. You're stopping -- when you actually start 15 applying the brake, it's 117.60. Your total stopping 16 sight distance that we designed by is 250 feet. You 17 need 250 feet. That's the requirement. 18 MR. LOWE: At 35 miles an hour. 19 MR. DEVARES: At 35 miles an hour. So after 20 speaking, I did call the TxDOT, the area office TxDOT, 21 and they do have a site plan. They have a site plan. I 22 asked for it. They didn't give it to me. And that's 23 okay. Because that's -- he's doing his job. But what 24 he told me is he's already done a stopping sight 25 distance study and he has determined that they have 139 86 1 feet of stopping sight distance. 2 So where -- you know, when you look at the 3 chart, you got 128.6 feet of just reaction. Just -- 4 just -- you're not even applying the brake yet. And 5 then you're just barely starting to apply the brake and 6 you're riding 139 foot. So you have a significant issue 7 with your stopping sight distance. That's -- that's one 8 thing. And I'll speed it along here. 9 Here's a picture of what you're looking at. 10 If you look -- looking to the east, you know, for your 11 sight distance, you have a large pole, you have the 12 sign, that's all obstruction. That's something that 13 will potentially block your sight distance. Look at 14 your truck. I mean, you see how -- I mean it's right on 15 top of you. Your driveway is going to be right in that 16 location. You don't have a lot of time to react. 17 If you have -- and that's if you're going 35 18 miles an hour. You may be going faster, you may be going 19 slower. But that is at a speed of 35 miles an hour. 20 The other thing, other safety factors. 21 Because of the retaining wall placement. Supposedly 22 there's a wall placement that is going to be out on the 23 front of the parking lots, and that wall according to -- 24 again, according to the area office is five foot high or 25 six foot high. Now, the sight distance we just talked 87 1 about, remember, in sitting in a vehicle it's three and 2 a half foot. So your -- your sight distance is being 3 blocked by this retaining wall where this wall is at the 4 runway line so your sight distance is even more 5 affected. So you have an issue with sight distance. 6 The pull, the variance forces all the 7 construction up close to the TxDOT right-of-way. And so 8 because of that, these walls, the parking lot, 9 everything is a lot closer. And so, that is going to 10 hamper your sight distance. It also affects the size of 11 your parking let. Because now your vehicles are going 12 to have to turn around. They have to head out to go out 13 onto the roadway. They can't back out because of the 14 sight distance. So you have to have proper circulation 15 and operation in your parking lot. 16 Residents traveling west on 39, coming to 17 the development off of State Highway 39, are going to be 18 in trouble also because turning left into the 19 subdivision there's a curve, and they may get hit from 20 behind. You're going to get -- you're going to have 21 some rear-end crashes. And not only that, but the 22 reaction time for, say if somebody comes out of the 23 driveway, you're going to have to stop and you may get 24 hit from behind. You don't have a place of refuge. You 25 have a two-lane roadway. One lane in each direction. 88 1 You don't have a way to get around these vehicles 2 wanting to turn left. 3 The approval of the variance forced all the 4 development to the front. So any opportunity to maybe 5 purchase right-of-way in the future to widen, to help 6 with operations in that intersection, is hampered by 7 this because the cost it would take to relocate those 8 walls, reconfigure the parking lot for that development 9 is -- is subject. So forcing everything to the front 10 could have had an issue with that. 11 Here's -- here's looking east on 39, on FM 12 1340. This is on -- actually on the other side, on 13 1349. And the -- one of the other things are the clear 14 zone. I had to throw a clear zone in there. You need 15 to have a 10-foot clear zone from -- that's basically 16 from the edge of traveling -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Devares, let me just -- 18 MR. DEVARES: Yeah. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Just submit your report to us. 20 We'll happily study it. 21 MR. DEVARES: Okay. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay? Is there anything else 23 major that you need to tell us? 24 MR. DEVARES: Last thing is I would say that 25 this report would require a traffic impact analysis. 89 1 Should have a TIA done and also a drainage study should 2 be looked at for this because of the safety issues 3 involved, the mobility issues at the intersection. All 4 of this, would lead to the requirement of TIA and so on. 5 So -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: And the drainage step. I 7 gotcha. 8 MR. DEVARES: And that's -- I do have -- 9 this is my last thing. I did have something for all of 10 you so you can study it and look at it. If you don't 11 mind I'd like to hand that out to you. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. Go ahead. 13 MR. DEVARES: Okay. I assembled a memo that 14 I turned in here also that outlines everything, 15 everything that I've discussed, everything that I had. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Just leave it on the stand. 17 Everything that's up there is picked up and -- 18 MR. DEVARES: There's slides and -- if you 19 have any questions, call me. I'll be happy to -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: You're from Bastrop? 21 MR. DEVARES: I'm from Bastrop. So any 22 questions, any comments, anything doesn't make sense, 23 call me. I'll be happy to, you know, provide some free 24 advice. Free advice. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Very thorough. 90 1 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Dunn. 2 MR. DUNN: Hello. My name is John Dunn. 3 I'm owner/operator of the Hunt Store, 1634 Highway 39 in 4 Hunt, Texas. I'm here today as a friend of the Court. 5 Hello Commissioners, Judge Kelly, Commissioner Harris. 6 I'm here today for better or worse as owner/operator of 7 the Hunt Store. I also wear a community center hat and 8 I get the opportunity to get a lot of input from the 9 Hunt residents. What I'm here to do today is to share 10 that feedback. 11 Generally speaking, the concerns come in 12 four areas. Number one being they just don't want 13 development in Hunt, no matter what. And certainly 14 there are some of that. We put them over here -- or I 15 do. I respect that and understand it, but I can't 16 really address it and I don't think anybody here can. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well we call that NIMBY, Not 18 In My Backyard. 19 MR. DUNN: Yeah. That's it. And another 20 topic, if you will, are the concerns over the process of 21 making the decisions for the variance into the 22 neighborhood that requires to be under neighborhood 23 guidelines. It is what information was provided to the 24 Court to make those decisions? To me, those are rules 25 and regulations that are defined by the Court and the 91 1 County, and y'all will look at that and y'all will come 2 to the right decision. 3 But it has to do with was there a plat, is 4 there a site plan. I don't know. But I do know that 5 y'all need those things to make the decision. The folks 6 of Hunt just would like to see and know what was 7 available to the Court. 8 Number three, environmental. So there's 9 concerns, just the impact on the river with the septic 10 system. The number of trees that would have to be taken 11 out and just the overall impact on the environment there 12 along the river and then the gateway to Hunt. Once 13 again, I think the State and the County have rules and 14 regulations. If TCEQ has approved the septic system, we 15 may not like it and we may have concerns with it, but we 16 do have to depend on the State to make those decisions 17 and then I think they -- they will and they'll do what's 18 best. 19 Fourth and the primary concern, the biggest 20 concern really, is safety. And with the growth in Hunt, 21 the demographics of Hunt, that particular intersection 22 where we did just have a truck drive off the road and 23 into the -- almost into the river, it is a very real 24 concern. 25 So those are the four buckets I do believe 92 1 that there's a lot more discussion to be had on each of 2 them. I'm not here to really argue those points, I just 3 want to share that this is what I'm hearing from the 4 residents of Hunt. 5 Once the Court makes their decision, I do 6 welcome the opportunity to get y'all to Hunt, speak to 7 the citizens, help them understand how y'all have made 8 the decisions and how it's good for Hunt. Okay. 9 Because in the end, if we do development in Hunt it 10 needs to be done in the right way. I can benefit from 11 it. I need all the business I can get. So I'm not 12 against it. But I do believe there's a lot that needs 13 to be looked at for this particular development. So 14 with that, thank you. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 16 MS. TARRANT: I'll take less time, I 17 promise. My concern is setting a precedence for compact 18 housing on property that is distinctly right on the 19 highway and not deep enough for conventional homes. The 20 variance request was on a subdivision variance form. 21 But I don't know that this is a subdivision or has been 22 stated as such. My understanding is that there are 23 three lots there, but this is not verified anywhere to 24 my knowledge. If it is a subdivision, I think we were 25 required to have a plat and a water availability study, 93 1 no matter what water system you're hooking on to, and 2 those were not done. 3 The other problem I see is that Highway 39 4 is terrible about speeding. They are coming from the 5 west at 50 miles an hour. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Really? 7 MS. TARRANT: Yeah. And they don't slow 8 down. Hence, when you have three buildings there -- in 9 fact what goes there, you have at least three cars 10 coming and going all day long or six cars. I don't know 11 anybody except me that has only one car. I think that's 12 a very scary thing for that area. So it is problematic. 13 And you're coming right out and people are coming across 14 the bridge, and this is just a dangerous place to be 15 coming out onto a highway. I would like to see 16 reconsideration of what's going to be put there. That's 17 it. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 19 COURT REPORTER: What was your name, please? 20 MS. TARRANT: Linda Tarrant. I'm sorry. I 21 live on Highway 39, too. Right near him. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Sir? 23 MR. LOWE: Do you have any questions for us 24 or anything? No? Thank you for listening to us. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. Let's move quickly 94 1 on to the next topic. I think we're still on the 2 subject matter here. Item 1.13 consider, discuss and 3 take appropriate action to determine if the 1605 Cypress 4 Landing condominium development, located at 1605 State 5 Highway 39 in Hunt, is a subdivision for which the 6 landowner must prepare and file a plat in conformance 7 with the Subdivision and Manufactured Home Rental 8 Community Regulations for Kerr County. Our County 9 Engineer, Charlie Hastings. 10 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. Somebody's 11 got a red folder here that keeps jumping out. Do we 12 know who that belongs to? 13 (Off the record.) 14 MR. HASTINGS: I have put together a letter 15 to the developer that primarily -- I'm just going to 16 read that letter. It was actually an e-mail. Because I 17 think it addresses a lot of the concerns. I heard some 18 today that I might be able to address aside from -- from 19 my letter that can't do that. And I called it Exhibit C 20 in our agenda bill. This is to the developer, Larry 21 Howard. 22 Larry, per our phone conversation today, 23 purpose of which was a follow up on the status of your 24 proposed condominium project referenced below, our 25 regulations address condominiums, as I noted on 3/28/23, 95 1 however; I have not received a plat application. Please 2 see the attached July 20th, 2004 Attorney General 3 Opinion No. GA-0223 concerning the relationship between 4 chapter 232 of the Local Government Code and chapter 82 5 of the Property Code, also known as the Uniform 6 Condominium Act. 7 You indicated to me today that you have not 8 intended to file a plat under chapter 232, despite my 9 e-mail from 3/28/23 below, and despite asking the court 10 on 5/8/23 for variances from the Subdivision Regulations 11 concerning building setbacks and water availability 12 studies, and that you recently filed with the County 13 Clerk your condominium project under chapter 82. 14 Filing a plat for condominiums in the 15 unincorporated areas of Kerr County, under certain 16 circumstances, has been a requirement out of the 17 subdivision regulations for almost 40 years. Please 18 note that this condominium is subject to Section 3.01 of 19 the Subdivision and Manufactured Home Rental Community 20 Regulations, and note the history of condominium 21 requirements in Kerr County dating back to 1983: 22 Section 1 of the Kerr County Subdivision 23 Rules and Regulations dated 12/19/1983, Court Order 24 #15296, "Condominium Projects of more than four units 25 shall be platted and filed and otherwise comply with the 96 1 provisions of Vernon's Annotated Texas Statutes, Article 2 1301a." That's four or more. I realize he only had 3 three, but that was in 1983. 4 Section 5.01.G of the Kerr County 5 Subdivision Rules & Regulations dated 11/26/2007, Court 6 Order #30630, "5.01.G. Other developments: 7 Developments such as Planned Unit Developments (PUD), 8 Cluster Developments and Condominiums are subject to 9 these regulations. Certain provisions contained herein 10 may not be applicable and will reviewed on an individual 11 or case-by-case basis by the Kerr County Commissioners 12 Court. 13 It is noted that Condominiums shall be 14 subject to the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 15 Regulations and the provisions set forth in the Uniform 16 Condominium Act. Kerr County Commissioners Court shall 17 take into consideration water availability, public 18 welfare, public safety, environmental health, and all 19 other authority to regulate subdivisions when reviewing 20 and approving other developments." 21 Section 3.01 of Subdivision and Manufactured 22 Home Rental Community Regulations for Kerr County Texas 23 dated November 28, 2022, Court Order #39679. These are 24 our brand new regulations that went into effect 25 effective January 1, 2023. "3.01 Plat Required For 97 1 Division of Land. 3.01.A. Division Defined. Pursuant 2 to Section 232.001 of the Texas Local Government Code, 3 the Owner of a tract of land in Kerr County, Texas 4 located outside the limits of a municipality must have a 5 plat of the subdivision prepared, and thereafter 6 approved by the Commissioners Court, if the Owner 7 divides the tract into two or more parts to lay out: (1) 8 a subdivision of the tract, including an addition; (2) 9 lots; or (3) streets, alleys, squares, parks or other 10 parts of the tract intended to be dedicated to public 11 use -- that doesn't apply to us or this -- or for the 12 use of purchasers or Owners of lots fronting on or 13 adjacent to the streets, alleys, squares, parks or other 14 parts. That does. 15 3.01.B. Scope of Division. A division of a 16 tract of land as described in this section is a 17 subdivision for purposes of the Regulations -- for 18 purposes of the Regulations, and includes any such 19 division regardless of whether it's made (1) by the use 20 of metes and bounds description in a deed of conveyance 21 or in a contract for a deed, by using a contract of sale 22 or other executory contract to convey, or by using any 23 other method; or (2) for the purpose of residential, 24 business, commercial, industrial or other development. 25 Residential or mixed-use development projects, including 98 1 planned unit development, cluster development, apartment 2 complexes, and condominiums, may be subject to these 3 Regulations pursuant to the correct application of the 4 division of land concept described in this Section 5 3.01." 6 I continue in my e-mail: 7 The office of the County Engineer 8 administers the floodplain and subdivision regulations, 9 and as such we have received and processed the following 10 items concerning the subject property: 11 11/12/21 - Floodplain No-Rise analysis 12 submitted for removal and replacement of an existing 13 cedar post retaining wall. There was no mention of 14 condominiums in this application. 15 On 11/18/2021 - Floodplain development 16 permit application was received to "Reconstruct existing 17 retaining wall. Regrade within floodplain with no net 18 fill material." Again, no mention of condos. 19 On 11/23/2021 - Floodplain development 20 permit was issued for retaining wall only. No mention 21 of condos. 22 2/15/2023 -- that was this year -- a 23 Floodplain development permit application was received 24 for "Installation of septic pump tank and spray disposal 25 area." Condominiums mentioned in this application. One 99 1 condo was shown to be slightly in floodway, but through 2 correspondence with the owner's agent we are told "those 3 condos are approximate locations and probably be 4 relocated and may just have piers in the floodway. The 5 final condo will submit a floodplain permit application 6 prior to construction and that would require a no rise 7 evaluation if the piers are located there." 8 On March the 10th, 2023 the Owner's agent 9 was notified "the new subdivision regs may require a 10 development plan for condos." 11 On March 28th, 2023 the owner, the owner's 12 agent, the owner's legal counsel was notified by the 13 County Engineer that "condominiums are subject to our 14 rules," and by the County Attorney also, that "The 15 proposed project is subject to the Kerr County 16 Subdivision Rules and Regulations." 17 On April the 6th, 2023, a water availability 18 study was received from the owner's agent. The study is 19 referenced -- a study is referenced in Section 5.08 of 20 the Subdivision and Manufactured Housing Rental 21 Community Regulations. And my office assumed we were 22 receiving this because a plat application was 23 forthcoming. We also assumed we were going to be 24 getting a plat application because the week prior we 25 made it very clear, a plat is required. 100 1 On April the 28th, 2023 we -- my office 2 received -- a variance application form was received, 3 and it was to "Revise 50' setback from TxDOT State 4 Highway 39 easement to 25' setback. Our regulations 5 have a 50' building setback required by Section 5.01.E 6 of the Subdivision and Manufactured Housing Rental 7 Community Regulations. This was the reason it was being 8 submitted according to my office. That's what we were 9 assuming. A plat application is forthcoming. And a 10 requirement for additional water availability study was 11 also in the variance request, and groundwater 12 sufficiency disclosure statement and certification 13 referenced by 5.08.3.a of the Subdivision and 14 Manufactured Housing Rental Community Regulations. I 15 can only assume that's what this was for. 16 And up to this point, my conversations we 17 were having with the developer and his agent were that 18 we are not going to subdivide this property. It's going 19 to be one boundary. When I go and check deed records, 20 it shows that there are, in fact, two tracts that 21 comprise this one boundary. That is on the books today. 22 On May the 8th -- and I believe Mr. Nevares' 23 PowerPoint said that the variance request was received 24 on April the 28th and the variance was requested on 25 April 28th. That's not -- that's not true. I know that 101 1 was a typo. It should have said May the 8th, 2023. 2 On May the 8th, 2023, a variance application 3 was submitted to Commissioners Court for consideration, 4 and the variance was granted by the Court. 5 On June the 6th, 2023, that was just last 6 week, and this was pursuant to me finding out that there 7 was a declaration of condominium filed. June 6th, 2023 8 owner, owner's agent, and owner's legal counsel were 9 notified by the County Engineer that "1605 Cypress 10 Landing, a condominium, is subject to Section 3.01 of 11 the Subdivision and Manufactured Home Rental Community 12 Regulations for Kerr County, Texas." 13 I conclude in my e-mail, the office of the 14 County Engineer does not administer chapter 82 of the 15 Property Code, the Uniform Condominium Act, and 16 therefore does not have a way to know if a condominium 17 regime is being filed; however, this office has recently 18 been subject to floodplain inquiries from individuals 19 wanting to purchase lots -- quote, lots and units in 20 your condominium regime, which resulted in my phone 21 conversation with you today where you revealed that you 22 filed a declaration of condominium regime for the 23 subject property as follows: 24 On May the 19th, 2023 the Declaration of 25 Condominium Regime was filed by Larry Howard, Authorized 102 1 Agent, with the County Clerk, file No. 23-03052. 2 And now I conclude my e-mail: Since you 3 have clearly moved forward with your condominium regime, 4 please let me know at your earliest convenience how you 5 wish to proceed with addressing Section 3.01 of the 6 Subdivision Regulations. A plat application form can be 7 found in Exhibit S of the attached Subdivision 8 Regulations. I plan to have an item on the next 9 Commissioners' Court agenda to give them an update on 10 progress and ask for direction concerning the 11 application of Section 3.01 of the Subdivision and 12 Manufactured Home Rental Community Regulations to your 13 filed condominium regime. I hope this helps. And I 14 signed it. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Summarize that. 16 MR. HASTINGS: To summarize this, Judge, 17 what we have here is a condominium regime that I believe 18 is subject to our subdivision regulations. I will state 19 that I do not know if they're subject to the model 20 subdivision regulations within our subdivision 21 regulations. I'm not sure that we can make that 22 determination today, but I think that the Court can make 23 the determination today that this plat is subject to our 24 rules. 25 As I read the AG Opinion, it states that the 103 1 Court has the authority to determine if a plat should be 2 filed in this situation. It doesn't say that you shall 3 determine that, it says you have the authority to 4 determine that. And I believe that's why in our 5 subdivision regulations it has the word "may." It may 6 apply. I think it does. I think it's clear that it 7 does. There's definitely a division of parts. 8 I have visited with his legal counsel last 9 week, on Friday. This will be the first condominium 10 that I've ever done. Thirty years of engineering I've 11 not done one. So it's not my cup of tea. I understand 12 that condominiums are special. They're different. They 13 have their own code. And they have every right to go 14 file a regime. But if you read that code, it also says 15 that they are subject to City and County regulations as 16 well. And it's been well addressed by the Attorney 17 General. 18 So what I'm asking for the Court to do 19 here -- and before I do that, I do want to address one 20 more thing. On the variance procedure, going back over 21 my notes this morning I went back over the variance 22 request procedure, and I think that I'm part of the 23 problem here. It says, a variance application and a 24 request for subdivision variance. If you're requesting 25 a subdivision variance, regarding a variance sought from 104 1 the County subdivision regulations, the variance request 2 must be filed with the site application as described in 3 Exhibit S. I didn't ensure that that happened. So 4 that's one of the reasons we're here today. But it was 5 my understanding all along that it was going to happen. 6 I never had a doubt that we would have a plat 7 application at one time. 8 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. 9 MR. HASTINGS: Yeah. 10 JUDGE KELLY: But from where we are today, 11 your recommendation is that we vacate the previous 12 variance that we granted? 13 MR. HASTINGS: I think it has to be. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And order that it be platted. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. It has to. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Charlie, one 17 clarification if you would, please. You, in your 18 statement, read off that on April 6th of '23, a water 19 availability study was received from the owner's agent. 20 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. That was not 22 available, at least to myself, during the Commissioners' 23 Court meeting on May 8th. But having received it 24 afterward and been through it, I would like to be very 25 clear, it is a water availability report; it is not 105 1 compliant with 30 TAC 230. 2 MR. HASTINGS: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Correct? 4 MR. HASTINGS: And I believe that was why 5 the variance was requested. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question on that 7 point. Would we require -- if it's not Model 8 Subdivision Rules, does the TAC, the format, is it 9 required? 10 MR. HASTINGS: The difference is that I see 11 between our regular subdivision regulations that say you 12 will do a water availability study under certain 13 circumstances, and the model subdivision regulations 14 that say you'll do a water availability study under 15 certain circumstances, is that the model rules allow you 16 to use a -- allow you if you're being provided water 17 from a water provider, we have what's called a 18 pindeeskim (phonetic) in our subdivision regulations, 19 and you can turn that in. Our regular subdivision 20 regulations don't. 21 And -- and because I was told this, 22 everything that I've received, if you look at the 23 exhibits, it's always one piece of property. One piece 24 of property. One piece of property. No division. And 25 for the purposes of platting, I would anticipate they 106 1 turn in a plat that would show it as one piece of 2 property. 3 Again, I'm going to need some help from the 4 Court and probably our outside legal and the County 5 Attorney in understanding condominiums and the -- what 6 the term limited common element -- common elements, and 7 whether that actually is the same definition of a lot. 8 Our model rules say that they're only subject to your 9 model rules if you create two or more lots. It doesn't 10 say parts, it says lots. 11 Regular subdivision regulations say, hey, if 12 you're creating parts, you need to plat it. So this 13 is -- the model rules are special and they have some 14 very specific requirements when they kick in. I can't 15 stand here today and tell you whether they're 16 subdivision model rules or not, but I can tell you they 17 need a plat. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Chuck can -- Chuck can tell 19 us. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think he's standing 21 by. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So where we are right now is, 23 we don't really need to look at whether or not these 24 are -- whether the model rules apply or not. We had a 25 permissive for the County to require any condominium 107 1 regime to file for a final plat approval. Right? 2 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE KELLY: The may is permissive. And 4 that's what you're recommending that we do? 5 MR. HASTINGS: Absolutely. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Can I ask our County 8 Attorney? Is it your opinion that the model subdivision 9 rules apply? 10 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't give legal advice in 11 a public meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: We can go into Executive 14 Session. 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Fair enough. I think 16 we're going to have to take that advice in Executive 17 Session. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's -- we've got it on 19 the agenda in Executive Session -- 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 21 JUDGE KELLY: -- with Chuck Kimbrough to 22 talk to us about it. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Because the problem 24 here is if the model subdivision rules apply, no 25 variances are allowed. 108 1 JUDGE KELLY: Correct. Now, I've got one 2 person that wants to speak. Richard Mosty. 3 MR. MOSTY: I'm Richard Mosty. I'm a 4 Precinct 2 resident, and I am representing the Hunt 5 Group, and I'm not going to rehash this, I think the 6 Court is on the right track. I commend Mr. Hastings for 7 recognizing that an error was made, and he won't say it 8 but in his defense, I think he was given bits and pieces 9 of information that was misleading. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Can I interrupt you 11 just for a second? And this is not just him. All of 12 us. I think we may have dropped the ball. 13 MR. MOSTY: And I think that's right. And, 14 you know, when there's -- when we make mistakes we can 15 either deny it and say I'm going to put up a wall, or we 16 can correct our mistakes, if they're correctable. And I 17 think in this instance it is. 18 Now, this is a start from scratch and just 19 as you go, I think, and I think you will have it in 20 Executive Session maybe after this, I think that there 21 are questions that you probably already have written 22 down, but I think you can -- if you ask Mr. Kimbrough 23 and the County Attorney, number one is, is a plat 24 required? And I think that's a no-brainer. Yes. Then 25 the second question, and not to be decided today, is 109 1 once that plat is filed, then do the Model Subdivision 2 Rules apply or do the subdivision -- the subdivision 3 rules clearly apply. Do the MSR rules apply? And then 4 you get into the TAC 230, the water availability study, 5 which is what you have does not comply with TAC 230. 6 And as -- as you pointed out, I don't think 7 you need to ask again, but is it possible to even grant 8 a variance under the model subdivision regulations? 9 JUDGE KELLY: If it's model subdivision 10 rules, there are no variances. 11 MR. MOSTY: Model subdivision rules, you 12 can't. And then the final thing is, and this is 13 probably for -- for all of us, when you do -- you know, 14 I heard some comments from the Court about variances on 15 a case-by-case basis. Well, I -- I think by definition, 16 a variance asking it is a special case. It is a 17 case-by-case. And the Court adopted Rule 6.09, which 18 has a specific set of findings required before a 19 variance is done. 20 So if a variance is possible and it is not 21 under the model subdivision regulations, then -- and if 22 a variance is requested, then I think the Court needs to 23 take a strong look at 6.09 and make sure that all the 24 I's are dotted and the T's are crossed as you do that. 25 So this is, at least in this instance, it's an 110 1 opportunity where the Court does have an opportunity to 2 correct their mistake. Thank you. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? 4 Mr. Jeter. 5 MR. JETER: I have a question. What are the 6 rules for Air B&Bs and VRBO? Because if this is a 7 condominium and there's so many camps and so many 8 visitors coming in, let's just say that these 9 condominium owners and/or absentee owners can open their 10 condos to 25 people at a pop, which means there's going 11 to be no parking there or not sufficient parking. And 12 then the traffic situation is going to turn into a 13 nightmare. So I don't have any idea about Air B&Bs or 14 VRBO rules but -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: County -- County rules? 16 MR. JETER: Yes, sir. Because wouldn't 17 County rules apply -- Air B&B rules apply to this 18 particular property? 19 JUDGE KELLY: Counties have no authority -- 20 no ordinance authority. 21 MR. JETER: Okay. 22 JUDGE KELLY: You only see that in 23 incorporated areas. 24 MR. JETER: Okay. Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So we don't have any. 111 1 MR. JETER: Okay. Fair enough. 2 JUDGE KELLY: We're not permitted by -- by 3 law. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But y'all can 5 incorporate. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, you can incorporate. 7 (Talking over.) 8 MR. HASTINGS: Submit an application and 9 we'll look at it. 10 MR. JETER: Oh, I -- I'm not doing that. 11 MR. HASTINGS: Hey, I just -- I don't want 12 people to hear we don't have rules and then we don't get 13 applications. That was part of the problem here. I 14 wasn't getting everything. So I can only respond to 15 what comes to my office. So for someone watching this 16 on YouTube and you just heard oh, no rules. Oh, we got 17 rules. Submit your -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: We have subdivision rules. 19 MR. HASTINGS: -- application to our office 20 and -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: We have subdivision rules. 22 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And we 23 have manufactured housing rental community rules as 24 well. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, we do. 112 1 MR. HASTINGS: That -- that also extend into 2 RV parks. And RV parks are subject to some rules. 3 So -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: But we don't regulate Air 5 B&Bs. 6 MR. HASTINGS: But we don't regulate Air 7 B&Bs. 8 MR. JETER: Got it. Got it. 9 MR. HASTINGS: I just wanted that 10 clarification. I just didn't want people to feel like 11 they had a scapegoat. They don't. So submit something 12 to me. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good catch. 14 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I want to say 16 something about the confusion on this. This has 17 happened before, and the last that we kind of had to 18 backtrack on subdivisions and variances and so on, had 19 to do with condos then, too. I have a very limited 20 understanding of condominium regime rules. I think in 21 general it's like a caveat. It's different than your 22 subdivision rules. 23 And so twice now that I can think of, we 24 probably didn't have enough information going in. And 25 whether it's because of the Department Heads' 113 1 recommendation or whoever it was, I feel like that for 2 my part of it I didn't know enough about it so I just 3 took somebody else's recommendation. That's not always 4 advisable and the dominos start to fall, and it might be 5 good for us to understand condo -- we're going to have 6 more of it. We have smaller spaces. People are trying 7 to build smaller places and the Air B&B boom is going 8 on. It might help us to have a little better 9 understanding exactly what the condominium rules are. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly right. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, maybe we have a workshop 12 on it. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think we might ought 14 to. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Let's talk to Chuck about 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I think it's going to 18 happen again. And I -- I -- for my part, I don't really 19 quite understand it. 20 JUDGE KELLY: And this would be a workshop 21 intended to be open to the public. We all need to learn 22 more about this. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I had a little experience with 25 condominium rules simply because I own a place in Austin 114 1 in a condominium regime and all I know is the only thing 2 that I own is the dirt and the rocks under the 3 foundation of my house and the house on top of it. And 4 everything else is limited common use -- limited common 5 area. So I think a workshop would be a good idea. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- I agree 7 that's a good idea. Because where I have a real problem 8 with condominiums is, in looking at this one, is this 9 one looks like lots. What if it was one building, three 10 stories high? That doesn't look like a lot to me. But 11 what I'm hearing, it applies. And then I'm really 12 getting it confused in my mind. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to figure out 15 what -- well, what applies? So I think a workshop is a 16 good idea. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Now, are you Mr. Weber? 18 MR. WEBER: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You're on the list of 20 speakers, if you would like to approach the podium, 21 you're welcome. 22 MR. WEBER: Thank you, Judge. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Please state your name and 24 your address. 25 MR. WEBER: May name is Christopher Weber. 115 1 I'm an attorney. I represent the developers of this 2 tract and my address is 9150 Dietz Elkhorn, Fair Oaks 3 Ranch. 4 There's been a lot of discussion about this 5 being a condo. Condos are one of the three types of 6 residential developments that are recognized in Texas. 7 One being a homeowners association, your typical 8 subdivision. Another one being something that's not 9 regulated at all, just open property. And then the 10 third is a condo. 11 Within condos there's different types of 12 condos. And one is called a site condo. And a site 13 condo is very different than how most folks think of 14 condos. 15 Commissioner Letz just mentioned a few 16 moments ago about a structure being three stories high 17 or something like that. I do understand that that is a 18 typical consideration to give to what a condominium is. 19 That's not what a site condo is. 20 A site condo anticipates that there's going 21 to be one tract of land, just like every other 22 condominium. But that there's going to be units that 23 are above the ground that are sold. It is a way to get 24 a slightly higher density to make the best and highest 25 use of a particular tract of land. And they frequently 116 1 do require variances, because the nature of a variance 2 is to be able to make use of a piece of land that 3 otherwise couldn't be used for a particular purpose. 4 Now, does it make sense to do that all the 5 time? No. Obviously not. But this Court already 6 looked at some of these variance applications and 7 granted them because, at least previous to the public 8 outcry, the Court apparently believed that the variances 9 were allowed to the best and highest use of this 10 particular property. No plat is required for this 11 particular tract and for its use as a site condo. And 12 by the way, site condo is spelled S-I-T-E. It's a 13 recognized form of development, although it is fairly 14 new. 15 No title would be transferred to the real 16 estate itself. It would remain a single tract of land. 17 The title that would be transferred would only be to the 18 boxes of air above the ground that constitute 19 condominiums. If I can take the Court's attention to a 20 typical condo again. Let's say you've got a 30-unit 21 condo, 15 units on the first floor, 15 units on the 22 second floor. I don't think anyone would disagree that 23 a condo on the second floor is a unit. That's all we're 24 doing is we're erasing the first floor unit and dropping 25 that second floor to a matter of a few millimeters off 117 1 the ground so to speak and that -- that box of air 2 becomes the unit that would be conveyed to the owner. 3 But the unit is not a piece of land. It's a box of air. 4 Making a plat -- making a plat being a 5 requirement for this particular tract would result in it 6 being undevelopable, even for a single residence. 7 Because the current regulations require just shy of two 8 acres. I think it's 1.92 or 1.94 acres for a 9 subdivision and for a platted subdivision and this is 10 slightly less than that. So if a plat is required for 11 this particular tract, then it could not be used for a 12 single residence or even a single residence. That would 13 be a taken. And that would be unfortunate. 14 So the question has to be asked is, what is 15 the community really wanting here? Now I know, and we 16 all know, that the human animal does not like change. 17 And so what folks have seen and, you know, maybe for 18 their entire lives have seen a particular tract of land, 19 and it's been open to, you know, public view to the 20 river from the road or whatever. They know they can't 21 trespass on it because it belongs to somebody else, but 22 that's just what they're used to seeing. Just because 23 they're used to seeing something does not override the 24 owner's right to develop their property to its best and 25 highest use. I think we all know that. 118 1 So the question then becomes, well, what is 2 that best and highest use. If it's -- if a plat is 3 required, we can't even put a single family home on 4 there. So let's say we don't plat it. Well, then we 5 could put at least a single family home on there. A 6 single family home could have along with it a guest 7 house. Some outbuildings, a garage. How would that be 8 significantly or materially different than what's being 9 proposed in terms of what's actually constructed from 10 the site condo that is what's anticipated, what -- what 11 has been proposed? It -- it wouldn't be. It would look 12 nearly the same. Just be called something else. 13 What can we do with that property if it is 14 not turned into a condominium, which would consist of 15 three very nice homes? See, it's called a condo but the 16 structures that would be on there would look just like 17 very nice roughly half million or more dollar homes. 18 Well, under the current regulations, an RV 19 park could be put there, and there's nothing that 20 anybody could do to stop that. Now, is that a threat? 21 It's not. I'm just simply advising the Court and the 22 community what other things can be done, other than 23 putting three very nice homes there. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Sounds like a threat to me. 25 MR. WEBER: It's not. There's no 119 1 contemplation to do that right now. But the proposal is 2 to put condominium complex, a site condominium complex 3 there, and we believe that that would be the best and 4 highest use. 5 JUDGE KELLY: These legal issues that you're 6 talking about and legal definitions and what qualifies 7 and what doesn't qualify and what applies and doesn't 8 apply, is a conversation that normally takes place 9 between the developer's attorney and our attorney. And 10 if we need to, we get an outside attorney. And we've 11 got them in this case. So this is a discussion that 12 normally would be handled in the process that we call 13 voluntary predevelopment plan. 14 We can't require people to come to us with a 15 concept plan like we used to. That all got taken away 16 as you well know. But in our rules we have a voluntary 17 predevelopment plan. And the purpose of that is to get 18 the engineers together, to get the lawyers together, to 19 get the stakeholders together and see what it is that 20 you want to do, is it viable and how can it be regulated 21 or not regulated. That didn't take place in this case. 22 And that option was available. It was not availed. 23 MR. WEBER: Respectfully Judge, what 24 happened in this particular matter is it looked like 25 things were progressing without any issue up until 120 1 roughly about two or three weeks ago. And as soon as it 2 was discovered that there were some concerns that looked 3 like it might need further discussions along those 4 lines, that's when I became involved and, in fact, I met 5 with the County Attorney and the County Engineer just 6 this past Friday and we started exploring the very same 7 things that I'm telling you about today. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And so what we're told is that 9 we can elect to require platting. And if we can, we are 10 going to do it. I can tell you that. I have -- I don't 11 think there's any doubt of anybody on this Court that 12 that's something that we want done. And so you can 13 lecture us about the law, but what we need you to do is 14 to sit down and work with our people so that we can find 15 out is this really viable or not. 16 MR. WEBER: We'll be glad to do that. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. You have any other 18 comments? 19 MR. WEBER: Only to point out that permits 20 have already been issued, one with regard to the traffic 21 and another with regard to the septic. And on the 22 septic permit, it specifically says that it's 23 anticipated that it's going to cover a three unit 24 condominium complex. So that's what I'm saying. We 25 thought things were going along just fine. That there 121 1 was no need for any further discussion because things 2 were being approved as requested. It's only when this 3 became contentious -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Weber, what we have here 5 is a lack of transparency. That's what we have. 6 MR. WEBER: Respectfully, Your Honor, I 7 disagree. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's what lawsuits are 9 for. And if that's what we need to do, that's what 10 we'll do. 11 MR. WEBER: I have nothing further, Judge. 12 Thank you. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We've heard a lot. I 14 think what we have before the Court is whether to vacate 15 the variance that was granted because of the lack of 16 transparency involved in the process and to require this 17 condominium regime be platted per our subdivision rules. 18 Is that right, Charlie? 19 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's my motion. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll second it. And 22 I -- I'll -- you know, I'll second it. I don't think 23 there's any other discussion. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. You beat 122 1 me to it on the transparency comments. I think things 2 changed. They dribbled the information out. I even 3 double-checked with Charlie this morning about the 4 backup material on May 8th. There was none. I never 5 heard condos mentioned. And, you know, we got ahead of 6 ourselves and we let that happen. But we can fix it. 7 We're not going to double down on something that was 8 wrong to begin with. 9 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You know, we make a 11 mistake, we're going to own it. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, look, I -- I 13 think the most important issue -- and we need Chuck 14 Kimbrough to weigh in on it, is whether the Model 15 Subdivision Rules apply to this plat. I agree that we 16 need a plat. So I think we need to take his counsel. 17 If you recall on May 8th, I asked do the Model 18 Subdivision Rules apply? I was told no. That was the 19 only reason I went along with the variance. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: I would not have 22 otherwise because they're not allowed. 23 JUDGE KELLY: No, no. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Anyway -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: And that's something that 123 1 we're going to take up with Chuck in Executive Session 2 today. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. Very good. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like to talk to 5 Chuck before I vote, period. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I -- I think that 7 would be privy. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, then we'll save -- 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We'll hold -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: -- the vote until after 11 Executive Session. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 13 JUDGE KELLY: But while the public's here, I 14 just want you to know what our -- our leanings are at 15 this point and depending on advice of counsel. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I'll go back to 17 my original comment. We need to know more about this so 18 we don't do this again. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Agreed. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. Right. I'll 21 certainly be looking a lot closer. I know -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: We'll hold any further -- the 23 rest of this discussion until Executive Session. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. And we have 25 more items on our agenda we need to get to. Y'all are 124 1 more than welcome to hang around, but if you -- no 2 telling how long we're going to be in Executive Session. 3 If you pull up YouTube you'll see it will be dark, 4 that's -- you know, we're in Executive Session and then 5 all of a sudden it'll come up again if you want to just 6 sit and watch it from home. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But if I was you, I'd 8 go to lunch. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'd like to go with 10 you. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: We'll go with you. 12 JUDGE KELLY: So with that, we'll defer the 13 rest of that discussion until Executive Session and take 14 action afterwards. 15 We'll move on to the next 10:00 o'clock 16 item, which is to consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 18 a.m. on July 24, 2023, for a revision of plat for Lake 19 Ingram Estates Section 2, Lots 66 and 67. Charlie 20 Hastings. 21 Let's take about a five-minute break. 22 (Break.) 23 JUDGE KELLY: I do that loudly just to give 24 everybody time to trickle back in. I saw Commissioner 25 Paces came through the door a minute ago. 125 1 Okay. The Court will come back to order. I 2 was going to call 1.14. I got a couple that we need to 3 have heard before 12 o'clock because Commissioner Letz 4 has to leave and we've got to get those out of the way. 5 So I'm going to fast-forward to item 1.16, which is a 6 public hearing for a revision of plat for Hall Ranch 7 Lot 3. 8 I convene the public meeting. Is there 9 anybody here that would like to address the Court with 10 regard to that issue? There being none -- 11 MR. HASTINGS: Judge, which item? 12 JUDGE KELLY: 1.16. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Oh, 1.16? 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. I'm jumping ahead 15 because Commissioner Letz needs to be here for these 16 two. So we've had the public meeting and no one wants 17 to talk. Therefore, we'll adjourn and go on to 1.17, 18 which is to consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 action regarding a revision of plat for Hall Ranch 20 Lot 3. 21 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. 22 JUDGE KELLY: I got you out of order, I'm 23 sorry. 24 MR. HASTINGS: Back on track. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Hold on one second. 126 1 There was someone here earlier. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Hall is here. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, okay. Right there 4 in front of me. 5 MR. HASTINGS: A hundred percent 6 representation of the subdivision as well. There are 7 two owners right now that own these three lots in Hall 8 Ranch. 9 This proposal divides Lot 3, currently 10 503.67 acres, model rules do not apply, into two lots. 11 Lot 3A will be 237.05 acres and Lot 3B will be 266.62 12 acres. Both lots will front on the newly constructed 13 Guilanshah Road, which we have inspected. The road and 14 drainage has been constructed, erosion control through 15 establishment of vegetation still remains. They're 16 working on getting the grass to grow out there. 17 Access to the subdivision is from Guilanshah 18 Road, a 20-foot wide, approximately 3200' long, private 19 access easement. Because of this narrow easement, the 20 court permitted no more than three lots as stated on the 21 plat; however, this proposed revision will increase the 22 number of lots. 23 That's the big decision today. And that was 24 the purpose of the public hearing was to get from the 25 public because their understanding is that this entire 127 1 subdivision has a note on the plat that says no more 2 than three lots. This division of Lot 3 only will 3 divide that into two. 4 Now you -- or overall you're going to have 5 four lots in the subdivision. Bobby and I do not know 6 how to address the note that's on the plat that's on 7 file, other than for this Court to -- if you adopt this 8 it's -- let's just make sure that it's noted that we're 9 aware that it's limited to three, but we're making -- if 10 you're going to, make an exception. 11 JUDGE KELLY: How many total acres are in 12 the subdivision? These sound like big places. 13 MR. HASTINGS: What is it, 800 -- 14 VOICE: 799.3. 15 MR. HASTINGS: 800. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And Lot 3 is the biggest lot? 17 VOICE: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE KELLY: With, it looks like, 503.67? 19 VOICE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So we've got this huge -- this 21 big subdivision with two smaller lots, this great big 22 lot now wants to be divided into two lots? 23 VOICE: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And we have to decide if we 25 think that's appropriate. 128 1 MR. HASTINGS: And I'll state this, that our 2 subdivision regulations in 2007, and the new ones, still 3 has the provision for, if you're going to build a 4 country lane, unpaved or paved, you may have no more 5 than eight lots. Now, the Court restricted it to three 6 because he has no control over that 20-foot wide 7 easement that's over 3,000 feet long that you have to 8 drive through before you get to his subdivision. And 9 so, it's up to the Court at your discretion. You have 10 that note on the first plat. We're curious how you will 11 address it on this. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My feeling is that I 13 disagreed with the note in the beginning. This -- we 14 have a lot of subdivisions with access that are similar 15 to this. Is it great access? No. I think we remove 16 the plat note, allow this addition, and if there's 17 somebody in the future wants to divide another lot we 18 make a decision at that point. 19 At some point if they were to go in there, 20 as an example, and say let's put a hundred lots back 21 here, at that point I'd say no. That road needs to be 22 upgraded. However that can be done. But going from 23 three to four does not impact it at all. I've been 24 back -- I've driven the road. It's not paved but in -- 25 from a site standpoint and a lot of standpoints it's a 129 1 whole lot better than a lot of county roads. It's an 2 unpaved road. So my feeling is we need to remove the 3 plat note. I don't know if we can do that the way it 4 was worded or if just allow -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Is that a Court order 6 if we do that? Can we remove it by Court order? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can we remove the 8 plat note based on this agenda item? 9 JUDGE KELLY: Where is this plat note? 10 MR. HASTINGS: And that previous one is not 11 on the agenda. This is a revision of Lot 3 only, as 12 opposed to a revision of Lots 1 through 3. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Then I'll make a 14 motion that we approve the revision of plat as 15 presented. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: And then if we want to 18 remove the plat note, come back to another -- another 19 meeting with it. Post it on the agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we'll just approve 21 this agenda item then. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So we have a motion and a 23 second to approve the proposed division as presented? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 130 1 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 2 Okay. I think that gets us back on track. 3 Go back to Item 1.14 to discuss and take appropriate 4 action for the Court to set a public hearing for 10:00 5 a.m. on July 24, 2023 for a revision of plat for Lake 6 Ingram Estates Section 2, Lots 66 and 67. Mr. Hastings. 7 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. This 8 proposal revises the line between two existing lots, 9 Lot 66 (14.98 acres) and Lot 67 (14.75 acres). Lot 66R 10 will be 24.62 acres, and Lot 67R will be 5.10 acres. 11 Both lots will continue to front on Jon Bevan Lane. 12 The County Engineer requests the Court set a 13 public hearing for 10:00 a.m. on July 24, 2023 for a 14 revision of plat for Lake Ingram Estates Section 2, 15 Lots 66 and 67, Volume 4, Page 257, Precinct 4. 16 And Commissioner Paces asked me earlier was 17 this part of the subdivisions that were from last year 18 that are subject to those rules, and I told him no. And 19 I'm going to tell you now, I'm not sure. I -- maybe 20 they are, maybe they aren't. I didn't bring that list 21 with me. I need to look at that and verify that, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I note from the 23 plat itself it has a place for Headwaters Groundwater 24 Conservation District to sign off. 25 MR. HASTINGS: Then -- then most likely not. 131 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: So -- 2 (Talking over.) 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Here's my issue. Their 4 rules change on August 10th -- 5 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- and, you know, we're 7 having a public hearing on July 24th. 8 MR. HASTINGS: They're -- they are -- 9 they're aware of that. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: It's a very tight time 11 frame to get it actually approved. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. So any other revision 13 of plats are to be done this year. Today's the date to 14 have the public hearing date set. If you come next 15 week, you're too late. You missed it. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 20 approve the revision of plat for Lake Ingram Estates 21 Section 2, Lots 66 and 67, to set a public hearing. 22 Charlie, answer me this. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: When we set the public hearing 25 for that date, are we also going to set the final plat 132 1 approval revision? 2 MR. HASTINGS: That's completely up to the 3 developer and his surveyor to get that stuff to us on 4 time to meet that date. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Then he'll have to -- he'll 6 have to do that in order to be able to get under 7 Headwaters approval. 8 MR. HASTINGS: And it's done often. 9 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. 10 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. But yes, that is 11 the -- and they're aware. They're aware of the 12 deadline. 13 JUDGE KELLY: But the point I want to make 14 is today has been a learning experience in many ways. 15 Public hearings are much more important then the public 16 thinks. Because we have a public hearing and people 17 don't know about it or they don't check and see what's 18 on the agenda, and then something happens and they go, 19 how did that happen? 20 MR. HASTINGS: All the time. 21 JUDGE KELLY: I know. But where possible, I 22 think the better practice is to have a public meeting a 23 month before you take action. We can't always do that, 24 I understand. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: And this is a prime 133 1 example because -- 2 JUDGE KELLY: This is a prime example. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Because if we don't 4 approve it on the 24th, you know, the next meeting is 5 after the deadline for Headwaters. 6 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm -- I'm just voicing 7 the opinion of one of five that when we can tell the 8 public that we had a public meeting and whether they 9 attended or not, there is a record of that on YouTube 10 and on the transcript. And it makes it easier for us to 11 be able to explain to them why something happened. When 12 you do the hearing and the action on the same day, it's 13 back to back. Blim-blam, it's just that way. 14 And I'd like to -- and this is just for 15 future thinking. When possible, see if we can't stretch 16 out these public hearings and make them more important, 17 emphasizing to the public. Because that's how you find 18 out what's really going on, is when you have a public 19 meeting. Most people don't know anything that goes on 20 until we get something on the agenda. And the good 21 thing -- good part is, it's -- there's a lot of people 22 that read those agendas. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We get -- we got over 24 300 people at the town hall and people were still 25 complaining we didn't get the word out. So it's on the 134 1 radio, newspaper, Facebook and everything else. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was a full house. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. Other than 4 knocking down doors, I don't know how to do it any 5 better. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, to comment on 7 what you're talking about though, and this is really 8 important what Commissioner Paces said also, is that I 9 would say that 90 percent of the public does not have a 10 clue that Headwaters is changing their rules and we're 11 about to have a ten acre minimum lot size in this County 12 and that means that all these subdivisions that have 13 three and four and five or ten and 11 acres, they're no 14 longer going to be able to be divided. It's going to -- 15 it's going to have -- we're going to hear from a lot of 16 people very upset. They won't understand what this is. 17 JUDGE KELLY: It is a seismic change. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's huge. It's not a 19 change that I agree with. It's huge. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: That affects this one. 21 They've got a lot of pipe on one acres. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And it's going 23 to -- 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: And if they want to get 25 Headwaters approval, they're not gonna. 135 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what it's going to 2 be -- we're going to have to decide as a court how we're 3 going to handle revisions when both lots are below five 4 acres. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: So the agenda item is to set 6 a public hearing. So we might want to go ahead and do 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: We're good with that. 9 JUDGE KELLY: With regard to the -- we got a 10 motion and a second. We do have a motion and a second. 11 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. Thank 12 you, Heather. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: You're welcome. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Move on to 1.15 consider, 15 discuss and take appropriate action regarding a final 16 plat for D-McGeeHee Subdivision. 17 MR. HASTINGS: This proposed subdivision 18 create a single lot. Lot 1 will be 5.41 acres. Access 19 and road frontage will be on Klein Branch Road and Levi 20 Lane. They're dedicating right-of-way on the form of a 21 road easement for Klein Branch Road. 22 The County Engineer requests the Court 23 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 24 a final plat for D-McGeeHee Subdivision. Precinct 4. 25 You don't have to pull this out and look at 136 1 it, but I'll tell you that on the plat I think it's -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Headwaters has already 3 signed off. 4 MR. HASTINGS: -- that -- that Klein Branch 5 is -- one day it's going to be full blown arterial, and 6 so they're dedicating their fair share to get this to an 7 arterial road, which is anywhere from 80 to 100 foot of 8 right-of-way. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 12 approve the final plat of the D-McGeeHee subdivision. 13 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 14 There being none, unanimous. 15 Let's move down to Item 1.18, which is a 16 public hearing for the revision of plat for Soledad 17 Springs Estates, Lots 39 and 44. 18 I convene the public hearing. Is there 19 anyone who would like to address the Court? 20 There being none, we'll adjourn the public 21 meeting and move on to Item 1.19, which is to consider, 22 discuss and take appropriate action regarding a revision 23 of plat for Soledad Springs Estates, Lots 39 and 44. 24 Mr. Hastings. 25 MR. HASTINGS: Now this proposal revises Lot 137 1 39, 9.05 acres as platted, and Lot 44, 10.20 acres as 2 platted. Lot 39R will be 6.32 acres and Lot 44R will be 3 13.0 acres. Both lots will continue to front Sierra 4 Road. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the revision of plat of Soledad Springs Estates, 9 Lots 39 and 44. Any discussion? Those in favor say 10 aye. Opposed? There being none, unanimous. 11 1.20 consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 action regarding a final plat for Meister Addition. Mr. 13 Hastings. 14 MR. HASTINGS: Judge, this proposed 15 subdivision creates a single lot. Lot 1 will be 7.11 16 acres. Access and road frontage will be Hermann Sons 17 Road. It is in the East Kerr water area that has to 18 have at least 7 acres. And so they have 7.1. 19 The County Engineer requests the Court 20 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 21 a final plat for Meister Addition. Precinct 3. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 25 approve the final plat for Meister Addition. Any 138 1 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 2 Unanimous. 3 Item 1.21 consider, discuss and take 4 appropriate action to open, read, and award the Rebids 5 for the crushed paving aggregates. Ms. Hoffer. 6 MS. HOFFER: Yes. Before you are the rebids 7 for crushed paving aggregates. We had a problem with 8 one of the vendors being able to fulfill our order. We 9 had placed the order in February. And May 1st we still 10 had no rock. And so we were like we probably need to 11 rebid. I consulted with the County Attorney. She said 12 yes, you need to rebid. So this is just for the crushed 13 paving aggregate. It's not any of the other regular 14 material bids that you're used to seeing. 15 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 16 to open, read aloud, and it is pretty obvious we'd like 17 to come back before the Court is done and award the bid. 18 It's pretty much a no-brainer. If we need to take it 19 back then we'll bring it back at the next agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we received one 21 bid from Green Dream International LLC. And their unit 22 cost for half inch and three eights is all the same. A 23 unit cost of 2915, and delivery is 1320, for a total of 24 $42.35. And then we have another bid from Armor 25 Excavating it looks like -- 139 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- out of Austin. 3 Their -- they had five eights, they gave no bid under 4 the half inch. It was $26 unit cost, $20 delivery, for 5 a total of $46. And for the 3/8 unit cost is $24, 6 delivery 20, total cost of $44. 7 Those are the only two bids we received. 8 I'll make a motion that we refer the bids to the Road & 9 Bridge Administrator for review -- 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and recommendation. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 13 refer the bids to the Road & Bridge Administrator for 14 evaluation. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 15 Opposed? None. Unanimous. 16 Item 1.22 consider, discuss and take 17 appropriate action for the Commissioners Court to set a 18 public hearing regarding the installation of "No 19 Parking" signs near the Bear Creek Bridge. Ms. Hoffer. 20 MS. HOFFER: Miss Pamela Slutz made a 21 request on May 11th, 2023 to the Kerr County Road & 22 Bridge office about the installation of "No Parking" 23 signs near the Bear Creek Bridge. And also part of the 24 request was to rope off the area to obstruct vehicle 25 access. 140 1 We had a meeting on site on Wednesday, 2 May 31st, 2023. Representatives were from Kerr County 3 Road & Bridge, Kerr County Engineering, Kerr County 4 Sheriff's Office and Precinct 4 Commissioner, and the 5 City of Kerrville since the bridge itself is in the City 6 and the other side of the bridge is the county. 7 We had decided -- we were there for probably 8 at least an hour discussing and we have decided on an 9 area there will be no parking, and it is inside the 10 curve on the Kerr County side. We don't recommend the 11 roping off any of the area. 12 The representative from the City of 13 Kerrville said they already have the very small little 14 parking area, probably maybe two cars at the most. They 15 didn't feel that they would probably be doing anything 16 different on their end. 17 Kerr County decided on the area marked in 18 the attached data. Like I said, it's on the inside 19 curve. We felt that when cars are parking there, if 20 you're coming from Bear Creek heading towards the 21 bridge, it was very difficult to see if there was 22 somebody coming off the bridge with having the cars 23 there. 24 Let's see. Kerr County decided on that area 25 that's marked on the attached map, and since this will 141 1 be a regulatory sign, the Court will need to set a 2 public hearing for Monday, July 24, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. 3 regarding the installation of two "No Parking" signs 4 within the inside curve near the bridge on the Kerr 5 County side. And this lies in Precincts 1 and 4. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 9 approve the "No Parking" signs on Bear Creek and -- and 10 the roping off the area? 11 MS. HOFFER: No roping off the area. We did 12 not recommend that. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any discussion? Those 14 in favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, 15 unanimous. 16 1.23 consider, discuss and take appropriate 17 action for Commissioners' Court approval to purchase a 18 new Caterpillar 920 OC Loader, and approval to trade in 19 the 2003 Caterpillar 924GZ Loader. Ms. Hoffer. 20 MS. HOFFER: I have before you a quote. 21 It's from Holt Caterpillar. It's quote No. 319014-01 22 for your approval to purchase a new Caterpillar 920 23 Loader under a Sourcewell Government Purchasing Contract 24 No. 32119-CAT. It's a 24 percent discount off of the 25 regular price of that loader. 142 1 The Kerr County Auditor surplused a 2003 2 Caterpillar 924GZ Loader on May 22nd, 2023, Serial No. 3 6YW00908. We would like to trade that loader in and get 4 a new loader, and the traded-in loader had to be like 5 items. The trade-in on that loader will be $38,000 6 towards the purchase price. The money for the purchase 7 will come out of the line item 15-612-570 capital 8 outlay. 9 And at this time I ask the Commissioners 10 Court for their approval to purchase one 2023 11 Caterpillar 920 Loader and trade in the 2003 Caterpillar 12 924GZ Loader and have the County Judge sign the same. 13 And this loader -- not sure where all it's going to get 14 used so I put Precincts 1, 2, 3, and 4. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Kelly, was this one of 16 the capital items that we had in last year's -- the 17 budget for this year? 18 MS. HOFFER: I can't remember what all we 19 had on that. I know some of the things that we tried 20 getting, there was no way we were going to get any of 21 these items. I mean it was like a year out. I'm not 22 real sure. Do you remember that, Robert, on our 23 original list? 24 ROBERT: I don't remember what was on the 25 original list. But as she said, there were some things 143 1 that we've been asking about that are 18 months or 2 longer on getting just because of availability. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So this wouldn't be in 4 addition to? 5 ROBERT: I believe so. 6 MS. HOFFER: This would pretty much -- this 7 purchase, I believe, is going to be probably the last of 8 our capital purchases, isn't it? 9 ROBERT: I think so. 10 MS. HOFFER: I think we pretty much have 11 spent that money. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And that's -- that will -- 13 this is in your budget and what we -- 14 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE KELLY: -- it may not be the same 16 equipment you asked for last year, but it's still within 17 the budget? 18 MS. HOFFER: Right. Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 22 approve -- 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Before we vote, what -- 24 what's the final net cost of this? 25 MS. HOFFER: The final net cost, the regular 144 1 price on this loader is $209,986. The trade-in 2 allowance for the 2003 Cat 924GZ is $38,000, and that 3 brings the price that we will be purchasing it for is 4 $171,986. 5 JUDGE KELLY: And that represent the 24 6 percent discount? 7 MS. HOFFER: Yes. From our Sourcewell 8 Government Contract -- 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, those sums are 10 available. 11 MS. HOFFER: -- which actually helps out a 12 bit. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. It's in the budget. 14 Are we good? 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm okay. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So that's -- we've got 17 a motion and a second. Any other discussion? Those in 18 favor say aye. Opposed? None. Unanimous. 19 Item 1.24 consider, discuss and take 20 appropriate action for the Commissioners' Court to set a 21 public hearing regarding setting the speed limit on 22 Thrill Hill Drive West at 35 miles an hour. 23 MS. HOFFER: Mr. Garvin made a request to 24 set a speed limit on Thrill Hill Drive West, which we do 25 not have any posting. As soon as you pass into the 145 1 Gillespie County, it becomes 35. So let's see. Near 2 the change of counties at 35. We also ran a traffic 3 study for this location and have included the study in 4 the backup data. 5 The County Engineer reviewed the study and 6 said that he thinks that it should be set at 35. That 7 way, as you're going into Gillespie it's the same speed. 8 You're not changing anything from County to County. 9 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 10 to set a public hearing for -- regarding setting the 11 speed limit at 35 miles an hour on Thrill Hill Drive 12 West for Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. And this 13 is in Precinct 4. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: The 24th, huh? 15 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 19 approve the public hearing for, what was that, July 20 24th? 21 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. At 10:00 a.m.? 23 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 25 favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, unanimous. 146 1 Item 1.25 consider, discuss and take 2 appropriate action for Commissioners' Court approval of 3 a general contract with Secor Fence and Building Company 4 for fence and gate project on Spur 100 at the Road & 5 Bridge Department property. 6 MS. HOFFER: Before you is a general 7 contract with Secor Fence & Building Company for a fence 8 and gate project on Spur 100 at the Road and Bridge 9 Department property. This project will move our 10 entrance/exit point onto Spur 100 and provide for safer 11 and more secure access for Road & Bridge personnel and 12 vendors and deliveries. 13 Instead of -- if you've ever been up on 27 14 where the Road & Bridge offices were where we come out 15 now, it's getting harder and harder to pull out. We 16 have obtained the driveway permit from TxDOT, they 17 approved it. Because that front portion of Spur 100 is 18 actually maintained by the State, the County Attorney 19 has reviewed this contract. 20 And at this time, I ask the Commissioners' 21 Court for their approval of this general contract. And 22 thank you for your consideration. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 147 1 MS. HOFFER: And this also will come out of 2 maintenance facility line item. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second for 4 general contract with Secor Fence & Building Company for 5 a fence and gate at Spur 100 for the Road & Bridge 6 Department. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 7 Opposed? Unanimous. 8 1.26 consider, discuss and take appropriate 9 action for Commissioners' Court approval of a general 10 contract with Secor Fence & Building Company for fence 11 project on Kerr County property -- it says country, but 12 it's county, right? 13 MS. HOFFER: Right. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Property at Apache 15 Subdivision. 16 MS. HOFFER: Before you is a general 17 contract with Secor Fence & Building Company for a fence 18 project on Kerr County property located at Apache 19 Subdivision. That's off of 479. Fencing of this 20 property will provide a secure location for storage of 21 road materials. The County Attorney has reviewed this 22 contract. 23 At this time I ask the Commissioners' Court 24 for their approval of this general contract. I wanted 25 to add in there, too, this is a new development that is 148 1 going in. And when we were doing the concept plan, I 2 think it's three local business owners that are 3 developing this piece of land. 4 We had asked them what the chances would be 5 if they would give the County, but I don't know what it 6 is, between a half and one acre to be able to store 7 materials to pave not only their road since they're 8 speaking County maintenance, but other roads that are in 9 this area because it is getting harder and harder to 10 find places to store our rock materials for chipseal and 11 for rebuilding roads. And they were kind enough to do 12 that for us. So we would like to get it all fenced in 13 and start using it to put materials out there. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Very gracious 15 donation. 16 MS. HOFFER: Yes. It really is a win-win. 17 But we really appreciated that they did that. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that will be fenced 19 in? 20 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay, good. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion to approve and a 25 second to the contract with Secor to fix the property 149 1 that was donated at Apache Subdivision. Any discussion? 2 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? There being none, it 3 passes. 4 Okay. Item 1.27 -- take a look at those in 5 your materials. This is consider, discuss and take 6 appropriate action regarding the first revision of the 7 Kerr County Voluntary Guidance Document for Aggregate 8 Production Operations. 9 If you'll recall, we came to the court 10 earlier in the year, back in the spring, to approve the 11 first set of BMPs, best management practices, which were 12 preliminary. They weren't in too much detail. The APO, 13 the Aggregate Production Operations, worked with the 14 business people and the residents out there and some of 15 our other stakeholders, and came up with a much more 16 detailed -- if you look at it, I mean I -- I was looking 17 at trying to figure out how to summarize this stuff to 18 you guys. 19 And if you just look at it, there's about 20 eight or nine special categories that they wanted to 21 specifically address and they did that with at least 22 anywhere from five to nine or ten specific things that 23 they're recommending to really flush out the skeletal 24 BMPs that we talked about before to make it much more 25 detailed. 150 1 And there was at the last meeting, and we've 2 been talking about it, we did have some of the operators 3 complain that there were some things on there that they 4 didn't want to do. That they were too expensive to do. 5 And we discussed it out, to the end that these are 6 guidelines. These are what we're recommending people 7 do. And that if you're not in a position to do that, 8 that's your defense. We can't make you do it. 9 And so with that, as we went around the room 10 and discussed it, I didn't know what the vote was going 11 to be and so I asked them is that's something that you 12 can live with even if you're not required to do it? And 13 we got a unanimous vote from all the operators and all 14 the stakeholders. So this is -- we've really got 15 something here that's -- they're not regulatory, but 16 they are very intrusive in terms of telling a business 17 how to run their business or asking a business how to 18 run their business that they all agreed to. So I feel 19 like we've made some gigantic process. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And we'll have less 21 finger pointing, you know, as -- like we had before. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and there -- when it 23 came up from this one operator who said it was too 24 expensive to do that, everybody in the room discussed 25 it, and accepted the fact that, okay, you're not in a 151 1 position to do that. You know, maybe when you get a 2 little bit more profitable you could -- or bigger or 3 whatever you're going to do, that's something that you 4 can do. But everybody's still recommending that that's 5 the better way to do it. That's the important thing. 6 That's what we were trying to do with this organization. 7 So I make my motion that we go ahead and 8 accept this and what we call here the first revision of 9 these voluntary guidance documents, the best management 10 practices. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second the motion. 12 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 13 second to approve the revised guidelines as presented. 14 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? It 15 passes unanimous. 16 Item 1.28 is to consider, discuss and take 17 appropriate action regarding the Advisory Council for 18 the Aggregate Production Operators. And I think this 19 really goes -- I'll pass that one and go on to 129 20 because that's what we really discussed. 21 And that is to consider, discuss and take 22 appropriate action to approve paying additional 23 consulting services fees to Jill Shackelford for her 24 work with the aggregates -- the APO meetings. 25 And Rich, you -- you were there, you saw 152 1 what she does. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: I missed that last one 3 but I've seen what she does in several of them and she 4 does a good job. 5 JUDGE KELLY: She's available for on-call 6 and does a marvelous job of being able to bridge the 7 differences as they come up. And we've had a lot of 8 really significant differences, especially over noise 9 and light. And we've approved it through the first two 10 quarters of this year. 11 And what we're asking is that at least 12 approve it for the last two quarters of the year to kind 13 of finish it out because they've been making really good 14 progress. And we've got momentum and we'd like to turn 15 her loose to kind of finish out the year and then what 16 we'll probably do is come back and say on an as-needed 17 basis. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Not the fiscal year, 19 but the calendar year. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Calendar year. Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is called the 22 government creep. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I was against 24 paying her and voiced that from the beginning. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't a big fan. 153 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: This has gone on and 2 been extended every time. At some point people have to 3 pay their own freight. This doesn't involve everybody 4 in the County, yet everybody in the county is paying for 5 it. If there's going to be an association, there's 6 going to be people that meet and talk about it, then why 7 can't they pay dues or figure out a way to pay for it 8 themselves? It doesn't involve everybody in the County 9 but everybody in the County is paying for it. 10 And I don't diminish her services and her 11 expertise and her effectiveness. None of that stuff is 12 in dispute. The dispute is the continuation of -- I 13 would say if we're going to do it at all, go one more 14 and then come back to it. Let's not, you know, roll the 15 red carpet out too far. I've never liked the idea of it 16 and I've said it repeatedly. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I agree. That 18 from now on the meetings -- that needs to be 19 accomplished in discussion maybe. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So maybe it needs to be 21 broached that they can go forward with it if they want 22 to and pay for it themselves. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Well, what's going to happen 25 when you do that, I can tell you right now, the people 154 1 that will pay for it are the operators. Because the 2 other people -- and the stakeholders, the other 3 stakeholders, don't have the money. And once the 4 operators start paying for it, they're going to want to 5 do it their way. Right now we have made tremendous 6 progress with this latest document, to get the operators 7 on board for some really significant operational 8 changes. 9 And that's why I want to briefly tell you 10 what she's done. The organization's asking for at least 11 let her finish out this year. And what I've heard from 12 y'all is you want to plan of when it's going to be gone. 13 When we're not going to do it. And so the plan that 14 we're coming to you with was try to finish this fiscal 15 year. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Fiscal or calendar? 17 JUDGE KELLY: This is calendar. I'm sorry. 18 Calendar. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what's -- what else 20 is she doing? This seems like -- I mean, the document 21 that we have is -- 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: She facilitates the -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a document. That's 24 what we -- or in our opinion or the committee's opinion, 25 that is how we would like aggregate producers to operate 155 1 in this County. So it seem like we're done to me. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. And the other 3 thing is, there -- we have other boards where, for 4 example, the County is paying for all of the -- whatever 5 it might be. Animal Services board we talked about 6 earlier today. There's nobody in that group that pays 7 anything except the County. So there are still -- 8 they're still members of the Board. 9 So you can have the -- I'm getting to this. 10 You can have the producers pay -- pay the freight. You 11 can still have board members part of the association 12 that have equal standing with everybody else that's on 13 the board, and they represent the other stakeholders to 14 the property owners and so on. Everybody gets in there. 15 And it -- it behooves the producers to pay her. And 16 the -- and to tamp down any of -- any problems they have 17 with the local residents. I think it should be handed 18 off to them. The baton needs to go to them. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be in favor of one 20 more quarter or one more payment. And on the agenda 21 they figure out how they move forward. Because at some 22 point we've got to end it. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We've gotta wean them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've extended it a 25 lot. And they've done a lot of good. And like 156 1 Commissioner Belew said -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: How much does it cost 3 every quarter? 4 JUDGE KELLY: About a grand. I think it's, 5 what, 1,050 or something like that. And that's for the 6 whole three months of answering those calls, talking to 7 those operators, talking to those homeowners out there, 8 working with the businesses, getting the agenda, getting 9 a speaker to come talk to us. And then all she charges 10 for is to drive up and present the meeting. This is the 11 biggest bargain in the world. But if you don't want to 12 do it, that's your call. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Nobody disputes the 14 effectiveness and the price isn't the issue. The issue 15 is that this has continued -- I didn't want to do it in 16 the beginning. It continued too long and we're not -- 17 and the entire County is paying for it. Regardless of 18 the cost. It affects one group of people and 19 everybody's paying for it. And we have other things 20 that they're -- it's prohibited that we can't do that to 21 people. You can't make everybody get involved in a road 22 district. You can't make the whole County pay for that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will say that it's 24 more than one group of people. I mean, it's a lot of -- 25 primarily Commissioner Paces and our constituents, 157 1 they're the ones that live around most of them. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I mean but that -- 3 that's a group to me. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The people that live 6 near the -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It falls on the 8 taxpayers. County taxpayers. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but I just think 11 we need to -- I would like to have one more meeting and, 12 you know, with the idea is how do they pay to keep it 13 going? And maybe the answer is, they don't and we 14 subsidize it on -- ongoing in the budget. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: These rules we just 16 adopted pretty much lines it out. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, you can also ask 18 them to have some skin in the game. They pay half and 19 we pay half. It -- it's gone on too long as is, in 20 this -- under this current configuration. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think what I'm hearing 22 is you would like for them -- I would hope before they 23 disband, because ultimately that's what I think probably 24 will happen, to provide a self-sustainable 25 sustainability plan. 158 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes. Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's not too much to 3 ask. It's to their benefit. The operators and the 4 residents. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: This has been -- I mean 6 this has been a very productive group and we need to try 7 to keep it going one way or another. And -- and I'm all 8 for cutting costs. 9 JUDGE KELLY: You've been to enough of 10 these -- 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: This is not a big cost 12 that -- that I want to focus on. We've got a lot bigger 13 fish to fry here. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Imagine we're doing 15 this ten times around the County. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well sure. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Every time some problem 18 pops up, the County runs in and becomes Santa Claus. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, except this was a 20 pretty big problem. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And I will say -- 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: But anyway -- I mean 23 I -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: -- Kerr County is on the cover 25 of state and national publications as pioneering the 159 1 better way to work with your producers. And she's 2 getting a lot of credibility for that. And that's 3 valuable to her because that's what she does. She's a 4 consultant. But the more we can land the plane -- the 5 better we can land the plane, I think the better it's 6 going to be for us in being able to still be the one 7 that people come to and say, How'd y'all do that? 8 Because we got it done. And other communities have not 9 been able to do it. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, everybody knows 11 what we've just discussed now. When y'all go to the 12 next meeting, y'all can put it out there in front of 13 them how we need to go -- what the Court is thinking 14 and what are your thoughts as far as going forward. And 15 then y'all can bring something back. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And maybe like 17 Commissioner Belew said, maybe we pay -- we contribute 18 but don't pay the whole thing. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we just need a plan 21 going forward as to how it's going to otherwise -- 22 especially going into a new budget year. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: If we could come 24 back -- or come back with one or two -- a couple options 25 that we could discuss. 160 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So one more quarter 2 or -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Is there a motion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to 5 authorize payment for one more quarter, with the 6 recommendation for the group to come back with a 7 sustainability option -- plan. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion and a 10 second to extend the APO advisory council funding for 11 one more quarter. Any other discussion? Those in favor 12 say aye. Opposed? None. Unanimous. 13 Item 1.30 consider, discuss and take 14 appropriate action -- 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Do we need to go back 16 to 1.28? Was there anything that -- 17 JUDGE KELLY: No. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Part of the same thing. 20 JUDGE KELLY: 1.30 consider, discuss and 21 take appropriate action to approve the Public Relations 22 Media Policy. Miss Walter. 23 MS. WALTER: Commissioner Belew, would you 24 like to start or -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I -- I just want to say 161 1 that we were getting a little adrift. We hired a public 2 relations lady, Ms. Walter, for one specific purpose and 3 that was to disseminate information about Kerr County, 4 period, full stop. That's all it was. And we've had a 5 little bit of mission creep with Facebook and other 6 things. 7 Commissioner Harris and I were a little 8 concerned, so we talked to her about having a policy and 9 she's put together a pretty good recommendation for 10 policy for how Kerr County deals with public relations 11 and letting people know what's coming up, having 12 transparency, letting people know what has actually 13 happened versus what the media may say about it, which 14 was the original point. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Bingo. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So now it yours, Lisa. 17 MS. WALTER: Well, you guys, you have the 18 documents in front of you and you've had a chance to 19 read it hopefully, so if you have any questions I'm here 20 to answer. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it looks pretty 22 good. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Before I ever got on 24 the Court I felt this was a position we needed. When I 25 was campaigning, you know, there was -- y'all remember 162 1 back there were some PR problems, I thought, and she has 2 filled that void. And you know, part-time originally, 3 now full-time and she's an asset to us. So with the web 4 page as well now. Making full time. 5 But I agree with Commissioner Belew, we just 6 need to keep it focused on Kerr County stuff. Not so 7 much what the City's doing or what have you, but 8 emergency stuff and what the County is doing. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And there are times 10 where we have events going on in the community and some 11 great blood drives and all that, they have their own 12 social media. And businesses are having a charitable 13 event. They have their own thing to do. The County 14 messages the County. 15 MS. HOFFER: I just wanted to add, Lisa, the 16 one that comes to mind, there might even be another one, 17 but with stuff with the Monarch Butterfly, and I know 18 that that's been issues in the past. We've had folks 19 come to Commissioners' Court to address that. And 20 Crystal from our office had put together something a 21 long time ago about, you know, the facts about all of 22 this, and when we're going to mow. 23 And Lisa put that in there and I received so 24 many thank yous for that going into the paper. I didn't 25 receive any that was negative or anybody questioning us. 163 1 So I thank Lisa. We worked together on a couple things 2 and the public has been very appreciative of it. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's a perfect 4 example of why we have a public relations person. 5 MS. HOFFER: It's great. It was really 6 great. We haven't received anymore phone calls on the 7 butterfly thing. So it just -- it was really nice. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: How do you get them 9 off your windshield? 10 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I will say for the 12 record, the more of that milk weed we have along the 13 road, the more likely the butterflies are going to die 14 from that. So we oughta cut it. But, you know, they've 15 made it -- made up their minds that we're killing 16 butterflies if we cut it down. Come to my house. Come 17 see what I've got on my property. How many milk weeds 18 I'm trying to kill. 19 So this is the -- I make a motion that we 20 accept this policy, going forward with it as the policy 21 for our public relations department for Kerr County. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 24 approve the public relations media policy as presented. 25 Any discussion? 164 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: I just want to kind of 2 reinforce. I mean, if we're all good with this policy, 3 which I am, it does say that news about civic 4 organizations receiving a resolution or funding from the 5 Commissioners' Court is acceptable as is news about 6 school districts, school related groups. Anyway, I want 7 to highlight organizations that we do support, which are 8 our volunteer fire departments. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: And they're integral to 11 the overall health and safety and welfare of everybody 12 in the County. And so, to the extent they're having a 13 fundraiser, I'd love to see it emphasized and reinforced 14 by the County on our website or Facebook page. 15 JUDGE KELLY: And we do that. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Under this policy -- 17 (Talking over) 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If we have a 19 relationship -- for example, if the Dietert Center or 20 it's some other organization, volunteer fire department, 21 we pay into what they do, so we have a relationship. 22 Occasionally, City and County has the Hazardous Waste 23 Day. We're not promoting the City, we're promoting 24 Hazardous Waste Day. So that's what it comes down to. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: I just kind of wanted 165 1 to make a plug primarily to the Volunteer Fire 2 Departments because I don't think they take advantage of 3 it enough. But anyway. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No, that's true. 5 JUDGE KELLY: All those in favor say aye. 6 Opposed? Unanimous. Thanks, Ms. Walter. 7 Item 1.31 consider, discuss and take 8 appropriate action to ratify and confirm the General 9 Certificate of Kerr County for the Alamo Housing Finance 10 Corporation in connection with its Multifamily Housing 11 Revenue Bonds, the Oaks of Bandera/Trails at River Road 12 Apartments. 13 And it had me on this, but I -- I don't 14 serve on that board; you do, Don. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I do? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. Judge Evan's chairs? 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and just looking at 19 what was sent, and I have not attended a single one of 20 those meetings so this is authoritative, but in order to 21 do these bonds all the stakeholders in the Alamo Area 22 Housing Finance Corporation support it. And that's what 23 we're doing. We're supporting -- we're signing off on 24 those bonds like for the organization and we're all in 25 it together. 166 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's right. 2 JUDGE KELLY: It's just a pro forma thing. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. Yeah. 4 JUDGE KELLY: But I looked down there and 5 thought, dang, you didn't tell me about this. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I was on a couple Zoom 7 meetings with them, I think, during the China virus. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And for what the public 9 doesn't know about the Alamo Area Housing Finance 10 Corporation was founded, what, 20, 25 years ago. 11 Something like that. And it kind of -- it just went 12 inactive. And then it got -- they found out they needed 13 it for something and revived it and came to all of us 14 that are members on AACOG and said, you need a 15 representative to serve on the committee. And I said -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I must have been 17 absent that day. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And he got volunteered. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I move for 20 approval. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And I'll second it. What do 22 we do? 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They send me letters 24 and I read them and I see what they're up to and, you 25 know, so -- 167 1 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 2 favor say aye. Opposed? I don't know if that was 3 unanimous or not. It passes. Judge Evans will be 4 happy. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 6 JUDGE KELLY: For those of you who have 7 never worked with Judge Evans, you want to keep Judge 8 Evans happy. 9 1.32 consider, discuss and take appropriate 10 action to address the possibility of prohibiting or 11 restricting the sale and use of restricted fireworks, 12 sky rockets with sticks and missiles with fins, in any 13 portion of the unincorporated area of Kerr County 14 pursuant to the Local Government Code for the July 4th 15 weekend. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. We're back 17 here. I looked it up this morning. That's the 18 Keetch-Byram report. This is the best report I've had 19 since I've been in office I think. Look at all that 20 blue -- 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- which is good. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: It can change pretty 24 darn quick though. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. So -- 168 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But based on that we 2 can't limit it even if we wanted to. 3 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: And you won't have another 6 opportunity before July 4th. You've gotta do it by 7 June 15th. 8 JUDGE KELLY: But I will caution the public. 9 It's supposed to be a hundred degrees all this week, 10 probably next week, and there's another week before 11 July 4th. So we've got three weeks of dry, hot weather. 12 So keep your sprinklers on. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But this prohibits the 14 sky rockets with sticks and the missiles with fins in 15 spite of the fact that they'll have fireworks. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So we just don't take 17 action and they can do whatever. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do whatever. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 20 JUDGE KELLY: That's right. So we pass it. 21 1.33 consider, discuss and take appropriate 22 action to clarify the Road & Bridge stipend request for 23 CDL holders on -- we passed on May 22 and were hired 24 prior to Commissioners Court date. Ms. Hernandez. 25 MS. HERNANDEZ: Yes. I'm coming for you 169 1 just to clarify on the Commissioners Court meeting from 2 the last time that it was -- the intent of this was only 3 to be for CDL holders that were -- that had a CDL prior 4 to that Commissioners' Court meeting on the 22nd. 5 And there was one payroll on there that was 6 done, I believe it was prior to, it has the 26th on 7 there, but it was not to be included because it was in 8 the past, so -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Remind me again what the 10 problem was? 11 MS. HERNANDEZ: The problem is that the 12 Court Order reads that all employees in Road & Bridge, 13 and it should only be for CDL stipend. It's a CDL 14 stipend; not all employees. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's one issue. 16 And the other issue is the Court Order said $5,000.00 17 and there's not possible to do $5,000 because of the 18 number of pay periods. 19 So -- and they know I'm not real happy on 20 this one from the standpoint that I asked in Court if 21 this is the same as the Sheriff's Department is getting 22 and the answer was kind of -- there was head nods. I 23 don't know if anyone said anything. But it's not the 24 same as the Sheriff. It's double. 25 So my view is I think it goes -- the Court 170 1 Order needs to be corrected and I think it should be 2 $4,500. Because that's the number of pay periods we 3 have. 4 MS. HERNANDEZ: And that is why I also 5 brought it back because I did realize that it should be 6 4500. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I'll make a motion 8 that we clarify the Court Order that it only goes to CDL 9 drivers in the amount it should have been for the 10 remaining pay period, which is for $4500; not 5,000. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that revises the 12 other Court Order or -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. So I'll second. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 16 And what? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that we will revise 18 the previous Court Order that the total amount will be 19 $4500 and it only applies to CDL drivers as of the 20 effective date, which was the previous Court Order's 21 effective date. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 24 favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 25 Item 1.34 consider, discuss and take 171 1 appropriate action to schedule a public workshop with 2 the Texas First on election integrity the week of August 3 21st. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Thank you. 5 This is my item. And, you know, we've 6 already had a workshop on election integrity, and this 7 is the same group, TexasFirst.org. And they are putting 8 together a road trip to go around Texas, and hit as many 9 counties as they're welcomed. They're already on the 10 road right now and they've got a truck and a trailer and 11 they set up their hand counting stations with the 12 cameras. 13 And we did see a bit of a demonstration, but 14 basically this is to have a hands-on session. I mean, 15 you know, Bob Reeves attended that workshop and 16 suggested that before we make any decisions that the 17 Commissioners or the Court actually -- 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- experience a hand 20 count. And this is an opportunity to do just that. And 21 they're very flexible. They can -- they had prepared 22 mock ballots and -- you know, that has 20 races, 40 23 candidates. We can use those, we can use some of our 24 ballots, if we want to do them from anything, any -- any 25 amount. 172 1 I mean, the idea is this is only like ten 2 stations. So it's not like we can count 20,000 ballots. 3 But, you know, we can come up with a group and it'll be 4 representative and then you can multiply it times the 5 number of precincts and so forth to get an accurate feel 6 for just how long it would take to hand count and how 7 many stations, thereby how -- how much it would cost to 8 get the equipment required to do this. This is free. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No problem with the 10 presentation, workshop, whatever you want to call it. 11 My question is that I don't want to get the public's 12 thinking that we're going to -- we can do this. I first 13 want the County Attorney to say that the process they're 14 talking about is legal in Texas. Because I don't know 15 of any legislation that was passed. You know, from what 16 Bob Reeves said, the system can't be used. I don't 17 know. So I think the County Attorney needs to -- 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, that's because 19 they called it a system and it's not a system, it's a 20 process or a methodology. And we have since gotten some 21 clarification from the Secretary of State that says it 22 does not require certification. Now the other way to 23 look at it, too, is it's very specific in the Election 24 Code on how to conduct a hand count. And we can do 25 that, too. 173 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want -- I just 2 want to know that we can do it. I don't want to -- 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know -- 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Waste a -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll look to the County 7 Attorney. So County Attorney? Sorry. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: That's okay. I'll get you 9 an opinion. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it's legal. 11 Okay. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Well, you keep saying "we". 13 Are you part of this Texas First group? 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: No. Okay. That group. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Who's "we"? 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Texas First. 17 JUDGE KELLY: My biggest concern is we're 18 basically allowing a County workshop for a third-party 19 group, and I don't know what their -- their expertise 20 is. I mean, the guy that talked to us last time that 21 went on and on, he had been in the fast food business 22 for ten years and was just recently made a realtor. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. That was a 24 totally separate issue on the certification. Now, Texas 25 First has all the cyber security experts and IT guys 174 1 that have been able to demonstrate that you can't trust 2 the machines and we heard from Hart InterCivic and they, 3 themselves, admitted their equipment could be -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: And -- and why -- why is it -- 5 what's their expertise? That what I'm asking. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, again, these are 7 the guys that have actually manipulated machines, 8 manipulated votes. They've had access to be able to do 9 it. So it's something that in terms of having a better 10 awareness how to secure elections and -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: These are criminals that are 12 coming to teach us? 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, the hacker 14 teaches you how to avoid being hacked. And that's -- 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: You know, it's like the 17 burglar that gives advice to the police department or 18 the FBI or whatever, you know. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. No one has 20 committed a crime. But -- 21 (Talking over.) 22 JUDGE KELLY: I mean that's an issue. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: So this is just a 24 better -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: I just want to know who these 175 1 people are and I don't know if they know what they're 2 talking about or not. And it seems like to me we oughta 3 vet this process a little bit more than having fast food 4 people telling us how to vote. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: I mean, I've certainly 6 taken a close look and I'm convinced they know what 7 they're talking about. Now, whether there are road 8 blocks in the way or not, that remains to be seen. 9 There may well be. And we still have to identify enough 10 people to volunteer -- 11 JUDGE KELLY: If -- if they want to put on a 12 workshop, why don't they put on a workshop and those 13 people that are interested go to their workshop rather 14 than calling it a County workshop -- 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: -- that they come in and 17 basically take over and act like they're authoritative 18 or something? 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: That works fine. But 20 listen, again, Bob Reeves himself suggested that we 21 should all partake in a -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: Hand count. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: This is an opportunity 24 to do it. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I agree. 176 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: You can do it the 2 traditional way and you can do it on their methodology. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't want to 4 participate. I remember saying that. I didn't want to 5 count -- sit up here and count votes. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, whether you -- 7 you can be a witness. I mean, anybody can count. At 8 least you can see how it's done and see the results, and 9 then apply that to our upcoming budget decisions. 10 Because Bob has said that he wants to buy a bunch of new 11 equipment. And I certainly don't want to spend taxpayer 12 dollars on any additional Hart InterCivic equipment. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't either. 14 JUDGE KELLY: I think we're going to watch a 15 recount -- because that's what we really need to do. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, it's not a 17 recount, it's just a count. 18 JUDGE KELLY: A count. I'm sorry. I stand 19 corrected. If we're going to watch a hand count, why 20 aren't we watching our election department do it? 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, we can't. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't think we can, 23 can we? You have to be an official -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- poll watcher? 177 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- Bob was going to 2 make up a -- 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: You can make up any 4 kind of a mock -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. That's what I 6 signed up for. I said okay. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Again, that's fine. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to me, I guess I -- 9 the first thing. I only know that two counties hand 10 count and I don't know if they use this system or not. 11 I have no idea. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. No, they don't. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but I -- I don't 14 want to go down a rabbit trail when the Secretary of 15 State says no, the State says you're going to do it this 16 way and then it's not on us; it's the Legislature. And 17 the Legislature chose not to make any changes. As far 18 as I'm aware. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, so far. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- so anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's fine. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- I think 23 it's paramount that we know -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: I think we're already down the 25 rabbit hole. 178 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And Rich, I'd like to 2 hear from some of these counties that say they're going 3 to and get some information from them. What they 4 thought. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: And that's kind of the 6 beauty of them not showing up until August 21st. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yep. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I mean, they're already 9 going to have done this for a number of counties. 10 They're -- they're out there doing it right now. We're 11 not going to be the first. 12 VOICE: Ms. Bell would like to speak. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: We just need to make a 14 facility available and I'm proposing that we make the 15 Youth Event Center available to conduct this workshop, 16 have one during the day, one in the evening, possibly 17 two evenings if there's enough public interest. So if 18 it's not a County, I would still like to make the Hill 19 Country Youth Event Center available -- 20 MRS. STEBBINS: If it's not -- 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- for the public. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: -- a County event, then Hill 23 Country Youth Event Center fees will apply. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You have to schedule 25 it, yeah. 179 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: How much is that? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: I'm not sure. They would 4 need to contact Jake to make reservations for the 5 facility at that time. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I'd like to get 7 some input from Bob as well. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we have a request to 9 speak from Alicia Bell. 10 MS. BELL: I'm Alicia Bell, I'm in Precinct 11 1. I'd like to read something that was written to -- I 12 think it was to Texas First from the Secretary of State. 13 This is about the request about hand counting. So this 14 is April 27, 2003. Under Election Code 123.001, the 15 Commissioners Court is responsible for adopting the 16 voting system that would be used in that County's 17 election. Some counties may choose to use hand-counted 18 paper ballots, other counties will choose to use 19 elections -- or excuse me, electronic voting systems. 20 If the County will be using a voting system, 21 it must be a system that has been certified at the State 22 and Federal level. State and Federal law requires an 23 entity conducting an election to provide at least one 24 electronic voting system per polling place and per early 25 voting location that will allow voters with disabilities 180 1 to independent mark -- I'm sorry. I think we're missing 2 a part there. 3 Pursuant to Chapter 123, Subchapter (a) of 4 the Texas Election Code, a voting system must be adopted 5 for use in any one or more elections by Resolution, 6 order other efficient action. The adoption of a voting 7 system may be modified or restricted at any time. 8 Additionally, the authority adopting the system should 9 indicate in their official adoption action whether they 10 are adopting the system for use in early voting only, 11 regular voting on election day or both. The general 12 custodial -- the general custodian of electronic records 13 is required to make any user or operator manuals or 14 instructions related to the system available for public 15 inspection. This is not a system. This would be a 16 process. A system would be computers. 17 Adoption of voting system occurs by the 18 following authorities: General election for State and 19 County offices, Commissioners Court; Number 2, primary 20 elections, County Executive of parties holding the 21 primary; and Number 3, all other elections, (a) the 22 Commissioners Court, if ordered by the Governor or a 23 County authority, (b) the governing body of the 24 political subdivision served by the authority or the 25 elections. 181 1 As stated above, for most elections the 2 County Commissioners' Court is the authority responsible 3 for adopting a voting system. It would follow that the 4 Commissioners' Court would be the authority to defund 5 and rescind a voting system -- which would be what we 6 currently use, Hart InterCivic -- the underlying section 7 above and the order that County elections be conducted 8 using paper hand count. So -- and this was from the 9 Election Staff Office of the Texas Secretary of State. 10 So that means that y'all have the authority 11 to choose the hand count. It's not a system. It is a 12 process. You just have a paper, you look at it. You 13 have a camera. You press a button for a calculator. 14 That's all it is. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's why we need to 16 talk to Bob Reeves because he deals with the system. 17 MS. BELL: That's where we would have the 18 need for the public -- the public workshop. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think this is an 20 opportunity to see for yourself. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bob Reeves had to go to 22 Georgetown for a conference. That's why he's not here. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, before I want to 25 vote on this, I would like to hear what the -- what the 182 1 County Attorney says her recommendation is. Should we 2 put it on our next agenda? 3 JUDGE KELLY: You want to pass the motion or 4 do we deal with it? 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'm going to roll at 6 the end of the day for it. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: The dates are already 8 kind of there. I've reserved -- I've talked to Jake, 9 it's available. He's reserved the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. 10 So we just have to decide whether we're going to do it 11 and if we're going to make that Youth Event Center 12 available for this purpose. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, it would be 14 dedicated -- I mean -- he would charge. 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, unless we decide 16 that it is a County function. I still think it benefits 17 the County and it should be. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Do we have a motion? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't -- I mean, I 20 think under the standpoint of the space to be reserved, 21 you say it already is. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there's no reason we 24 have to take action today on that part of it. And if 25 County Attorney comes back and says that it's -- you 183 1 know, that will carry my opinion as to whether it's free 2 or not free. But her determination. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You got a reservation, 4 y'all can cancel it if need be. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, I understand 6 that. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we'll pass this for lack 8 of a motion. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I'll make a 10 motion if it helps. My motion is that we approve the 11 use of the Hill Country Youth Event Center for two 12 sessions on election integrity and hand counting 13 ballots. 14 JUDGE KELLY: And sponsored by Kerr County? 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: To help educate the 18 public. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What are the dates? 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, the dates of this 21 group. All right. Anytime between August 21st and 22 23rd. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second that. 24 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second. 25 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 184 1 (Commissioners Belew and Paces said aye.) 2 JUDGE KELLY: Opposed? 3 (Judge Kelly and Commissioner Letz opposed.) 4 JUDGE KELLY: Abstain? 5 (Commissioner Harris abstained.) 6 JUDGE KELLY: Fails for lack of majority. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Like I said, I want 8 more information. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: All right. Talk about 10 it next time. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Item 1.35 consider, discuss 12 and take appropriate action for the Court to approve 13 Certificate of Construction of Completion for the TDA 14 Project 7218055, East Kerr County/Center Point 15 Wastewater Collection Project. Charlie Hastings and 16 Rosie Daly. 17 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. Rosie Daly 18 is going to take this one. She's with Grantworks and 19 has helped us with the project. 20 MS. DALY: Okay. So y'all remember we were 21 here in January closing out the 7045, now we're closing 22 on the 8055 of the TDA funded portion of LMI 23 connections, so you should have the certificate of 24 construction completion with the final parties -- or the 25 final contract amount remaining left to be paid. 185 1 So if you have any questions about it? But 2 the TDA LMI connections are all complete now and the 3 rest of the work is in line with D Guerra or the Texas 4 Water Development Board will be a month or two out for 5 close. 6 JUDGE KELLY: So all you're asking us to do 7 is approve? 8 MS. DALY: Approve. Yeah. So we can get 9 this submitted to TDA. 10 JUDGE KELLY: So we're getting close to the 11 end. 12 MS. DALY: Yeah. 13 MR. HASTINGS: Our deadline to submit the 14 document you have is June 22nd. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, okay. 16 MR. HASTINGS: We need it today. 17 JUDGE KELLY: You need it today, huh? 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I move for 19 approval. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second 22 to approve the certificate of construction completion 23 for the East Kerr County/Center Point Wastewater 24 Collection Project as presented. Any discussion? Those 25 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 186 1 Moving on to Item 1.36 consider, discuss and 2 take appropriate action to surplus Sheriff's Office 3 chairs. Miss Mendoza. 4 MS. MENDOZA: Okay. Just asking for 5 approval to dispose of 12 office chairs from the 6 Sheriff's Office. 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Move for approval. I 8 made the motion. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 11 approve surplusing Sheriff's Office chairs. Any 12 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 13 Unanimous. 14 Moving on to 1.37, this is to consider, 15 discuss and take appropriate action to approve amended 16 budget calendar for fiscal year 2023-2024. 17 Miss Mendoza. 18 MS. MENDOZA: We have previously -- or you 19 had previously approved the budget calendar for the 20 upcoming fiscal year and we made a couple changes just 21 to be in line with the Local Government Code. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 23 approval. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and second to 187 1 approve the amendment to the budget calendar for this 2 year. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 3 Opposed? Very well. Unanimous. 4 Moving on to Item 1.38 presentation 5 regarding update/recap of the Enterprise Fleet 6 Management Program. Stacie Sigel. 7 MRS. GRINSTEAD: We're passing on this also. 8 I guess she has to get together with the Auditor first. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. All good. 10 MS. HOFFER: Judge, there were two bids that 11 the Clerk's Office forgot to give you guys. So there's 12 two additional crushed gravel. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Let's go back to Item 1.21, 14 which is the consider, discuss and take appropriate 15 action to open and read and award the rebids for crushed 16 paving aggregate. We've got two more bids. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This bid is from Johnson 18 City Crushed Stone. They did not bid on the 5/8ths. On 19 the 1/2 inch it was $25.00 unit cost. Total $25.00. 20 And the 3/8ths was $21.00 and delivery cost is a total 21 bid of $21.00. That one sounds a whole lot better. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It does. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: What was the delivery 24 cost? 25 JUDGE KELLY: 25 and 21. 188 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's delivered? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Delivered. Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, that one was out 7 of Austin earlier. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this one's going to 9 go in the other direction. This is from Brauntex 10 Materials, and in New Braunfels. Their 5/8ths unit cost 11 is $29.00, delivery $25.00, for a total of $54.00. 12 Half-inch, same, 29, 25 and 54 delivered -- or a total. 13 And 3/8ths is 29, 25 and 54 for a total cost. 14 I move we also accept these two bids for 15 evaluation. 16 JUDGE KELLY: So we were given a total of 17 four bids. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four bids. 19 MS. HOFFER: I think we can award the bid. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: You want to make a 22 recommendation on how to award? 23 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. Johnson City. They did 24 the crushed paving rock at $25 a ton, and the crushed 25 paving rock 3/8ths at $21.00 a ton and that's -- I think 189 1 if I'm not mistaken, there was no delivery charge in 2 there, Commissioner Letz? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. They 4 had an "X" in that delivery box on both of them. 5 MS. HOFFER: And green -- 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That could mean a ten. 7 MS. HOFFER: I'll just kind of go over the 8 four. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's still cheap. 10 MS. HOFFER: The Green International, LLC, 11 all of their -- there's a three different sizes, 5/8ths, 12 half-inch, 3/8ths at 2915, delivery charge of $13.20, 13 the total was $42.35. 14 The Armor, I'm not sure what the -- 15 Excavation, I think, out of Austin, Texas. No bid on 16 the 5/8ths, 26 on the half-inch, 24 on the 3/8ths with a 17 $20 charge. So one was $46.00 a ton, the other was 18 $44.00 a ton. 19 Brauntex, 5/8ths was $29.00 a ton, half-inch 20 $29.00 a ton, $29.00 a ton for the 3/8ths with a $25.00 21 delivery charge, which put all those three different 22 rock sizes at $54.00 a ton delivered. 23 Johnson City did not bid 5/8ths. Did $25.00 24 a ton on the half, $21.00 a ton on the 3/8ths with no 25 delivery charge. So it appears to me that Johnson City 190 1 won the bid. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Is that a problem if 3 they didn't bid 5/8ths? 4 MS. HOFFER: No, I think we normally use the 5 half-inch, is it, Robert? 6 ROBERT: Yes. 7 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 8 ROBERT: Yeah. 5/8ths is what we were using 9 at one time and we've gone more to the half inch -- 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 11 ROBERT: -- all the way across the board. 12 But we keep the 3/8ths for some single stuff. 13 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 15 MS. HOFFER: So we're going to use the half 16 inch for both layers. So it's a two-layer rock and oil. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: What's the full name of 18 Johnson City? 19 MS. HOFFER: Johnson City Crushed Stone. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Johnson City Crushed 21 Stone. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Crushed Stone. 23 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. You start putting that 24 5/8ths down and we have, I think, in Precinct 4. The 25 bigger the rock, the louder it gets. 191 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. I move that we 2 award a contract to Johnson City Crushed Stone for the 3 provision of half-inch and 3/8ths inch crushed 4 aggregate. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. Third. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 8 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 9 Unanimous. 10 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Approval Agenda 2.1 12 budget amendments. 13 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. You have before you 14 seven budget amendments. These are line items from the 15 1st, for the most part. 16 You have the second budget amendment that 17 you're looking at is the one that the Texas Water 18 Development Board, the easements. One particular grant. 19 The fourth one. 20 The first one on the second page, that is 21 for an OOG -- that is the Operation Lone Star. And OOG 22 has approved the budget amendment that you're being 23 presented with for the amounts that represent what 24 you're looking at. 25 The next budget amendment is for the CDL 192 1 stipend. This was based on the first presentation in 2 the first Court Order, not the amended one, but it will 3 just be less and if we need the money we can transfer it 4 back at that point. If you want to go ahead and pass it 5 today. 6 And then the 6th budget amendment or the 7 first one on the third page, that is showing the receipt 8 of the bond proceeds and the expected plan for the 9 construction as of this point. 10 And then the last one there is just to catch 11 up from moving the public relations person from 12 part-time to full-time. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Is that with the adjusted -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 17 JUDGE KELLY: -- adjustments today? 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. Good. 20 MRS. SHELTON: Oh, you want me to adjust it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no, no. 22 JUDGE KELLY: No, we're going to approve it 23 and let you adjust it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 MRS. SHELTON: Okay. If needed. 193 1 JUDGE KELLY: Right. Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 4 favor say aye. Opposed? It passes. 5 2.2 pay bills. 6 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Invoices for today's 7 consideration $1,540,773.29. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and second to 11 approve the bills as presented. Any discussion? Those 12 in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 13 2.3 late bills. 14 MRS. SHELTON: Invoices for today's 15 consideration $1,239,831.57. These are all related to 16 grants in some form or fashion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and second to 20 approve the late bills as presented. Any discussion? 21 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Unanimous. 22 2.4 Auditor reports. 23 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Court Orders. 194 1 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let's do monthly 2 reports. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, monthly reports. 4 You're going to do monthly reports? 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, I'm sorry. Give 6 him a hard time. Sorry, guys. 7 All right. The Treasurer's quarterly 8 investment portfolio summary, Period time January 1st, 9 2023 through March the 31st, 2023. For May 2023. 10 Environmental Health OSSF, Director Ashli Badders. 11 Constables. Precinct 1, Tommy Rodriguez. Precinct 2, 12 Kyle Schneider. Precinct 3, Paul Gonzales. Precinct 4, 13 Brad Rider. Justice of the Peace. Precinct 1, Mitzi 14 French. Precinct 2, J. R. Hoyne. Precinct 3, Kathy 15 Mitchell. District Clerk, Dawn Lantz. Treasurer's 16 payroll report, Tracy Soldan. I move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 19 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any 20 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 21 Unanimous. 22 2.6 court Orders. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. The Court Orders 24 from our May 22nd meeting. Order No. 39997 through 25 40022. They all look to be in order. I move for 195 1 approval. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and second to 4 approve the Court Orders as presented. Any discussion? 5 Those in favor say aye. Okay. We've got three. 6 Approved. 7 Information Agenda 3.1 status reports from 8 Department Heads. Anything to report? 9 Moving on. 3.2 status Reports from Elected 10 Officials. Sheriff. 11 SHERIFF LEITHA: I know it's been a long 12 court. I just want to be sure and update the Court and 13 also the taxpayers of Kerr County in reference to Ingram 14 Police Department. The last -- last -- latest update 15 I've got is, you know, they've got an interim chief over 16 there, which is basically temporary. And as of a couple 17 weeks ago, they've got one police officer. Okay. The 18 problem with that, that officer probably works 40 hours 19 a week. And the problem being there's 168 hours in a 20 week, okay. Which that shows that they're doing about 21 24 percent coverage. 22 But in that, a lot of times they're not 23 available. They're on duty but they're not available to 24 the public because they're doing background searches or 25 something like that. 196 1 What I want to tell the Court, Sunday -- I'm 2 going to give you a good example. You know, likely 3 we'll get calls over there we can handle maybe in 30 4 minutes, an hour or two or something like that. But 5 Sunday is a good example that I want you to know about. 6 One of my officers who lives in Hunt was heading home, 7 off duty, kind of during shift change. A lady is trying 8 to commit suicide on 39 laying down in the road. Okay. 9 Trying to get run over. Thank God the deputy is there. 10 He got her off the road. 11 He sent the second unit because he's on his 12 way home and, you know, anytime you have to deal with a 13 suicide subject, you want a couple of people there so 14 then we sent a sergeant over there. Obviously what are 15 we gonna do. So we didn't include MHDD which probably 16 saved us a couple of hours. And we do what's called a 17 peace officer's emergency detention order. Okay. 18 We fill that out, we take them to University 19 Hospital. In that one call, you know, one officer had 20 an hour, supervisor had 45 minutes. Another guy had 3.5 21 hours. Like I said, we got lucky we didn't include 22 MHDD. Okay. There's about five more hours of my 23 resources that were used. I don't feel it's right, 24 okay. But you know what, we have to do it. 25 You know, so I -- I don't feel like the 197 1 citizens of Ingram are getting what they pay for. You 2 know, you're going to hear well, we pay -- they pay 3 County taxes, too. Right? But they pay additional. 4 They pay the City taxes for extra law enforcement. So 5 with that -- you know, that being said, you know, we're 6 going to continue to, you know, fill the void. You 7 know, I don't think that's right. 8 But what I want you to know, my -- my 9 officers -- and plus, that left us really short-handed 10 like we already are. But, you know, we've got to make 11 proactive to reactive. But, you know, I just wanted to 12 say this, the taxpayers of Kerr County know what we're 13 doing. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Y'all know how I feel 16 about it. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Item 3.3 status reports from 18 Liaison Commissioners. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Historical Commission 20 has canceled their summer camp, so I didn't know if 21 everybody was aware of that. 22 JUDGE KELLY: That's sad. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lack of attendance. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Lack of attendance. 25 And they had -- last time it was full and I asked if 198 1 they could handle more and they said absolutely not, 2 so -- 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: They adjusted the age 4 that they were doing. It used to be a little bit older 5 kids. So I don't know if that had an affect or not. 6 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, if you get to the 7 point where you think you can't take anymore and then 8 you don't advertise it, it's always better to turn 9 people away than it is to say we've got it covered and 10 then you don't have enough attendance. So that's 11 advertising 101. That was a freebie. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Any other Commissioner 13 reports? Okay. 14 What we've got is we've got an Executive 15 Session. I've got a hearing here in 20 minutes that I'm 16 going to have to step out to take. We can break now and 17 come back when my hearing is over. It's a Zoom hearing 18 so it'll go very quickly. Probably start back up by 19 1:45. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. Probably so. 21 JUDGE KELLY: You think we can make that? 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE KELLY: And y'all can get some lunch 24 and start back up at 1:45? Or we can start and then 25 stop and then start. 199 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: If we're going to talk 2 to Chuck, I need to be fed first. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly. 4 JUDGE KELLY: So we will stand in recess. 5 And we will reconvene at 1:45. 6 (Recess.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: (Gavel bang.) It is 1:57, and 8 the Kerr County Court is now back in session, and we're 9 going to adjourn to go into Executive Session and 10 discuss the county's active former subdivision/ 11 manufactured home rental community and other development 12 regulations, subdivision/manufactured home rental 13 community or other development projects now pending 14 county review or action, and any other matters described 15 in the agenda, as well as a litigation update. 16 Those are the matters that we're going to 17 discuss, the two. And so with that, it is now 1:58 and 18 we adjourn into Executive Session. Let's take maybe a 19 couple minutes just to transition and get people 20 situated. 21 (Executive Session.) 22 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come back to order. 23 Is is 4:26. We were in Executive Session almost two and 24 a half hours. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half hours. 200 1 JUDGE KELLY: And I apologize for that. 2 Before it was all over we even got a legislative update 3 from our outside counsel. And he knows a lot about the 4 law, I'll tell you that. 5 We have the item -- next item on the agenda 6 is 5.1 action as may be required on matters discussed in 7 Executive Session. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. We discussed the 9 Hunt issue earlier today, yeah, 1605 Cypress Landing, 10 and I'm going the make a motion to rescind and withdraw 11 the variance granted on May 8th, 2023 regarding the 1605 12 Cypress Landing project, with the understanding that 13 further review is necessary once a complete plat 14 application is made pursuant to the Kerr County 15 subdivision regulations. That's my motion. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is item 1.13. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes, that's right. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's the motion? 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes, Sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I'll second it. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Thank you. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We have a motion and second to 23 rescind the variance subject to review and the final 24 plat approval. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 25 Opposed? Unanimous. Thank you. 201 1 VOICE: Thank you, Court. Thank you. 2 JUDGE KELLY: You may be excused, and we are 3 adjourned. 4 * * * * * * 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 202 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 7th day of July, A.D. 2023. 10 11 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2025 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25