1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, July 31, 2023 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge HARLEY BELEW, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 RICH PACES, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action to approve "Proposed Salary 4 Increases for Elected County and Precinct Officials for Kerr County Fiscal Year 2023- 5 2024", and authorize County Clerk to publish same on August 16, 2023. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 7 action to approve the base salaries for elected officials for Fiscal Year 2023-2024. 8 *** Adjournment. 22 9 *** Reporter's Certificate. 23 10 * * * * * * 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come to order. It 2 is Monday, July the 31st, 2023, 2:00 o'clock in the 3 afternoon, and the Kerr County Court is now in session 4 in a Regular Commissioners' Court meeting. If you 5 would, please stand for the prayer and the pledge, which 6 I will lead. 7 (Prayer and Pledge) 8 JUDGE KELLY: Please be seated. Okay. 9 We're going to do the Commissioners' Court meeting first 10 and then we'll take a short break and we'll do an 11 Executive Session to talk about the legal matter. Take 12 a short break and then go into the workshop. 13 So on the consideration agenda, the first item is 1.1 14 consider, discuss and take appropriate action to approve 15 the proposed salary increases for elected County and 16 Precinct officials for Kerr County fiscal year 23-24 and 17 authorize the County Clerk to publish same on August 18 16th, 2023. Miss Shelton. 19 MRS. SHELTON: You are looking at a workshop 20 that -- or a worksheet that we received today from HR. 21 We have not had time to completely redo it. And I don't 22 know if you want to pass it based on our review. This 23 is showing the five percent increase for the wage 24 adjustment, and additional monies if they've been 25 discussed about so far. 4 1 JUDGE KELLY: So really, this is the latest 2 and greatest, subject to review and correction? 3 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So repeat that last 5 part you said, Tanya, please. This is with the COLA. 6 MRS. SHELTON: This is with -- yes. The 7 wage adjustment. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And anything else? 9 MRS. SHELTON: And the special requests that 10 have been sent in. So there was -- the Treasurer's 11 Office had, I think, a five percent increase on there on 12 the special request that we've discussed. And then 13 this -- the Sheriff's is one of the ones I'm looking at. 14 I think that was done a little bit differently. I don 15 't think it's going to be quite that high. So I expect 16 his to be less than what's showing on this list. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: For -- and the 18 Treasurer's Office, which position, hers? 19 MRS. SHELTON: It is her position. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: This is for elected officials. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 23 MRS. SHELTON: This is elected officials 24 only. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. 5 1 MRS. SHELTON: This is -- what happens is, 2 we have to give notice to the elected officials on what 3 their pay is going to be for the next year. They then 4 have, I believe, it is five days in order to file a 5 grievance if for some reason they don't like their 6 salary or think it's been turned in -- incorrectly done 7 or whatever the word would be. And then y'all have ten 8 days to do a grievance committee, at which time it will 9 be looked over and any changes to be discussed. And 10 somewhere in all this time we have to get it in the 11 newspaper also, so that everyone knows what the elected 12 officials will be paid. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And that's August 16, right? 14 MRS. SHELTON: That's the date we're looking 15 on in order to hit the timeline. It has to be done -- I 16 think it's within ten days of the budget hearing. 17 JUDGE KELLY: And so what we really need to 18 do is get you and Miss Hernandez together, fine tune 19 these numbers is basically what we need? 20 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Yes. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we can approve that 22 subject to your recommendations on any revisions? 23 MRS. SHELTON: You can. I mean, if you want 24 to have another meeting between now and approve that 25 once we've looked at it. I think when Jody and I looked 6 1 at it, it would probably be the 7th of August might be 2 the best date. 3 MRS. GRINSTEAD: And I'm not sure. Because 4 when we talked about August 16th as publishing in the 5 newspaper, it took into account the five days -- the ten 6 days for a grievance committee, that's -- I think it's 7 the last day we -- because I want to say it's gotta be 8 ten days before August 28th that it goes into the 9 newspaper. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, here's my question. 11 This is the proposed schedule, and anybody that wants to 12 file a grievance is going to be operating off of this 13 document right here; is that correct? 14 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 15 JUDGE KELLY: And if we make any revisions, 16 you're going to distribute any -- any corrections or 17 revisions to this so they'll know what the actual 18 salaries are so they can protect whatever rights they 19 want to exercise. 20 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 21 JUDGE KELLY: And we have to -- we have to 22 afford them adequate time to be able to review that and 23 make sure it's all okay. 24 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So should we go ahead and 7 1 begin the process to say this is preliminarily approved 2 by the Court so that they know where we're starting, you 3 know where you're beginning, and we can keep the motion 4 going -- keep the process going so that by the time we 5 get to August 7th we're ready to finalize this. 6 MRS. SHELTON: It would be August the 14th 7 before we're ready to finalize it. 8 JUDGE KELLY: The 14th? And then we'll 9 publish it in the paper on the 16th? 10 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 11 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Yes. 12 JUDGE KELLY: So do we do anything today, is 13 the question? 14 MRS. SHELTON: We need your tentative 15 approval, I think, is what -- on this. 16 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Yes. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Well, I'll move that we 18 tentatively approve the proposed salary schedule for 19 elected officials as presented, subject to revision. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 22 Any discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. You know, I 24 understand the Sheriff's position with the salary 25 adjustment we made there, but as I said last year, I'm 8 1 not for raises for elected officials other than the 2 COLA. You know what we ran forward with, what it's 3 going to be and -- but that's just me. I know not 4 everybody agreed with me last year, but that's my two 5 cents. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Any other comments? 7 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I haven't taken 8 that the last two times because, you know, if we had 9 more money in the budget for people that are County 10 employees, it's better for everybody. And I agree with 11 Don, you've run for elected office knowing what the pay 12 is and I didn't -- I didn't come in here to get raises 13 and make money, so -- I know it's a career for others, 14 but we are elected officials. Makes it a little 15 different. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? Those 17 in favor say aye. Opposed? 18 (Commissioners Belew, Paces and Harris 19 opposed.) 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So this is not 21 approved. Three, two. 22 MRS. SHELTON: So what does that mean? 'Cuz 23 we need -- so we've got -- the motion was to accept it 24 or not or tentative. And the motion got turned down. 25 So do we go back to last year's salary, or do we approve 9 1 the wage increase? We need instruction from y'all. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll make a motion to 3 approve this, minus the raise for the Treasurer's 4 Office. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And you're saying a 6 five percent raise plus -- 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Just the COLA. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I don't even like that. 9 Well -- 10 MRS. STEBBINS: You have to do that, though, 11 if you're going to do it for the other employees. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I get it. But I'm not 14 going to take it. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall the 17 conversation about the Treasurer. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: I don't either. We 19 probably had one but I don't recall it. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I remember last year. 21 But -- 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: What is the issue with 23 the Treasurer? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I know the reason. 25 I do remember. It's because she took over payroll. 10 1 Which was -- when she ran for office that was not part 2 of her job to do. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Correct. 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 6 MRS. SHELTON: She did not request this this 7 year. It was put in by someone else. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's even weirder. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The salary fairy. 10 Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean I think -- I 12 don't have a problem with the increase. How much of the 13 increase on Treasurer's salary is the five percent COLA? 14 JUDGE KELLY: It's a wage adjustment. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry. Wage adjustment. 16 MRS. SHELTON: It would end up being -- I 17 don't know the answer to that. Rosa, do you know? 18 MS. HERNANDEZ: Just the increase for the 19 COLA? 20 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 21 MS. HERNANDEZ: I haven't calculated it. 22 (Talking over) 23 MS. HERNANDEZ: It's probably about half of 24 it roughly. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 11 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, we already talked 2 about revising the figures, bringing it back. We know 3 we can do that. And then we can deal with this later. 4 MRS. SHELTON: So then -- 5 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So that everybody gets 6 a -- 7 MRS. SHELTON: -- revise it showing the five 8 percent and slow down the process and let y'all look at 9 it again with another meeting on the 7th of August? 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Unless before the end 11 of this meeting you can give us a figure. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Just for -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. We need -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: Let's get it clarified. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. And that was my 16 motion. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think I made the 18 motion for tentative approval as presented, subject to 19 revision. 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. And that's -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: Which that got voted down. 22 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Right. 23 JUDGE KELLY: So now -- 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: My motion was just for 25 the COLA only. And no wage adjustment for the 12 1 Treasurer. Although we had to do it with the Sheriff, 2 because of that salary adjustment up there. But -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My -- 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- but -- go ahead. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- calculations, if you 6 add the COLA to her current salary would be 77489. So 7 about 4,000 of it is an increase. 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Because of new -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of additional 10 responsibilities. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And the County Attorney 12 is saying we have to give everybody a five percent 13 raise -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- including electeds, 16 in order to give employees the five percent? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's the law? 20 MRS. STEBBINS: If you're going to give it 21 to all of the employees, you cannot exclude electeds. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's with the five. 23 JUDGE KELLY: You said you can't 24 discriminate between the classes of employees. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: And it's -- 13 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, that's going to 2 happen with the Sheriff. 3 JUDGE KELLY: I know. 4 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So where do you stand 5 on that? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the Sheriff -- we 7 just passed the Court Order last meeting with the 8 Sheriff. That was dealt with last meeting. 9 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And that -- but that 10 departs from this rule that the County Attorney's 11 talking about. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's a -- 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you give it across 15 the board adjustment -- 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: They're getting a COLA 17 plus. That's the difference. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: They're getting a COLA plus, 19 but that is -- 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: How is that not 21 discriminatory? 22 MRS. STEBBINS: From what I understand, it 23 is for retention. For the -- 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I mean I -- I know 25 that, but I'm asking you a legal point. 14 1 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Because I don't 3 understand that. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: The issue about giving -- 5 distinguishing the elected officials from the rest of 6 the County employees is the one that we have talked 7 about in the past where if elected officials want to 8 forego any increase they're given, they're welcome to do 9 that, but the Commissioners' Court cannot say we give it 10 to all of the employees but the elected officials do not 11 get it. 12 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But that was not my 13 question. 14 MRS. STEBBINS: What was your question? 15 COMMISSIONER BELEW: My question was, if we 16 give a five percent increase across the board plus, why 17 is that not discriminatory? And that's a legal 18 question. I don't understand the answer to it. 19 MRS. STEBBINS: I don't think that I've had 20 to answer that before. But I don't see any problem with 21 giving a plus for retention for departments who are not 22 even -- not even competitive as they sit now -- 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand that. 24 (Talking over) 25 MRS. STEBBINS: -- like law enforcement. 15 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: But I'm trying to -- 2 MRS. STEBBINS: Oh, the Sheriff's policy? 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- to wrap my mind -- 4 yeah, the policy. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't 6 even thinking about the right thing then. The Sheriff's 7 $5,000.00 more than the next person below him? 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: No. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. Then I don't even 10 know what you asked me. 11 COMMISSIONER BELEW: The additional pay for 12 the Sheriff's Department employees above the COLA. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a step grade 14 adjustment. That's just like adjusting that. It's not 15 like a market adjustment. 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: It was not a market 17 adjustment? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's what I'm saying. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It was not a 21 market adjustment or -- sometimes we refer to it as COLA 22 but we don't want -- we're not supposed to refer to it 23 as COLA anymore, because it really isn't a COLA. 24 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Well, I think it's 25 important for taxpayers to understand -- 16 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: It is more of a COLA 2 than -- 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- why we're saying 4 that everybody has to get one, and then the Sheriff's 5 Department gets more, which I have not said I'm opposed 6 to, but everybody should understand what it is we're 7 talking about so that it's clear. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I thought we already 9 crossed that bridge. I thought for recruitment or 10 retention to where we could be competitive in the 11 market. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: I agree. I'm okay with 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I don't have a problem 15 with Road & Bridge. I mean, everybody else is stealing 16 all our players, and we don't have anybody, you know. 17 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I get why we're doing 18 it. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And I -- I'm not 21 opposed to it. But if we're told that we have to give 22 all the electeds a pay raise in order to give the 23 employees a pay raise, and that's for equities sake, and 24 now we're told that we have to give the -- every 25 employee, which includes Sheriff's Department -- 17 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: It's the other way 2 around. 3 COMMISSIONER BELEW: -- plus -- plus, then 4 I'm just wondering why that's not discriminatory too. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because it's just for 6 the Sheriff. It's not where we're designated certain 7 positions and we're increasing -- 8 COMMISSIONER BELEW: I understand what's 9 happening and why. I'm asking a question about the 10 legality of it, why that's not considered discriminatory 11 as well. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not -- 13 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And we have two lawyers 14 in the room and neither one of them's answering that. 15 MRS. STEBBINS: I can tell you I don't think 16 there's any prohibition from giving the Sheriff's 17 Department or the Sheriff more then you give another 18 elected official. But there is a legal prohibition 19 against giving all of the employees an increase and not 20 including your elected officials. 21 COMMISSIONER BELEW: So the answer is, 22 really, that one is prohibited, the other is not. Is 23 that the answer? 24 MRS. STEBBINS: I think that's part of the 25 answer. If you would like for me to look and see if 18 1 it's otherwise been answered, I can -- I'd love to do 2 that. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Let me weigh in. Allow me to 4 weigh in. I have asked the question. But I sat in the 5 blue seats for two years and I'm -- this is my fifth 6 year up here. And I recall that there's an Attorney 7 General opinion that says that if we're going to give 8 wage -- COLA's or wage adjustments, whatever we call it, 9 to employees, it has to include the elected officials. 10 That was the problem. They weren't including elected 11 officials, they went to the Attorney General and the 12 Attorney General said you can't do it that way. 13 So that's why everybody en masse is included 14 in the wage adjustment or COLA determination. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We go through this 16 every year. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. Same thing. 18 COMMISSIONER BELEW: And some years they get 19 it and some years they don't. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Now the Road & Bridge and the 21 Sheriff, those are extenuating circumstances due to 22 current market conditions. 23 COMMISSIONER BELEW: That's retention. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Completely different. Recruit 25 and retention policy. 19 1 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Okay. 2 JUDGE KELLY: But back to this. We're going 3 to tentatively approve this for everybody except the 4 Treasurer, put the Treasurer in at a five percent wage 5 adjustment. Is that the motion? 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: For COLA, yes. 7 JUDGE KELLY: COLA. Wage adjustment. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. But I never got 9 a second. 10 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: That's what I'm asking for, a 12 second. Discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the way I understand 14 the motion, so if we go into our last year's salary and 15 adding five percent? 16 COMMISSIONER BELEW: Thumbs up. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Well, tell us what the number 18 is. Okay. So we got a motion and a second. Any other 19 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 20 carries. 21 Okay. Item 1.2 on our Consideration Agenda. 22 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action to approve 23 the base salaries for elected officials for fiscal year 24 23-24. Miss Hernandez. 25 MS. HERNANDEZ: Good afternoon. So this is 20 1 actually for any new elected officials whenever they 2 come in. This is going to be their base salary to 3 start. And what we -- what is generally -- historically 4 has been done is that you take the FY 22-23, the 5 previous year, and you add five percent. Whatever 6 percentage you get or that you all are giving, and you 7 add it to what's going to be for the 23-24. And that's 8 what these figures are. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And what are we going to do 10 with this? 11 MS. HERNANDEZ: This is just for you to 12 approve in case something happens to an elected 13 official. And so like for Mr. Paces, whenever he came 14 in, he -- he was under two, so that is the salary he 15 got, but he -- his was prorated because of the time that 16 he got here. 17 (Talking over) 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, it was prorated. 19 Same rate as everybody else. 20 MS. HERNANDEZ: Right. So that -- this is 21 what this determines. And we have to have this approved 22 in order for you guys to -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: So this is HR policy? 24 MS. HERNANDEZ: Right. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Base salary for elected 21 1 officials? 2 MS. HERNANDEZ: Elected -- newly elected 3 officials. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I'll move for 5 approval. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve the elected official base salary schedule as 9 presented. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 10 Opposed? Motion carries. 11 Okay. Let's take a short break. We need to 12 have a brief Executive Session with regard to the status 13 of litigation and we will reconvene shortly. About five 14 or ten minutes. 15 (Recess) 16 (Executive Session.) 17 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come back to order. 18 It's 2:43, we're just coming out of Executive Session, 19 and we begin the final budget workshop for the FY 23-24 20 budget. 21 How do we want to start this thing? Do you 22 want to address Fund 77? Should we start going through 23 these or what do you want do? 24 MRS. SHELTON: Either way. We can start 25 with the new Commissioners' Court as we've revised it 22 1 based on the workshops we've already had. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 3 COURT REPORTER: Are we out of regular 4 session? 5 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 6 * * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 14th day of August, A.D. 10 2023. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2025 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25