1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, August 7 & 8, 2023 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge RICH PACES, Commissioner Precinct 2 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 25 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 3 action to appoint a Grievance Committee 4 pursuant to Texas Local Government Code, Section 152.014, in the event that a grievance 5 is filed by an Elected Official regarding the "Proposed Salaries for Elected Officials for 6 2023-2024" that was approved by the Court on July 31, 2023 and provided to the Elected 7 Officials on August 1, 2023. 8 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 11 action to approve the First Amendment to 9 the Interlocal Agreement for the Hill Country Regional Public Defender's Office(HCRPDO) by 10 and between the State of Texas Counties of Bandera, Gillespie, Kendall, Kerr, and Medina 11 for Fiscal Year 2022-2023 (FY 22-23). 12 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 18 action regarding the Texas Indigent Defense 13 Commission(TIDC) FY24 Grant Award, SG-24-005, for the Hill Country Regional Public 14 Defender's Office(HCRPDO). 15 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 19 action to approve the Interlocal Agreement 16 for the Hill Country Regional Public Defender's Office(HCRPDO) by and between the 17 State of Texas Counties of Bandera, Gillespie, Kendall, Kerr, and Medina Counties for 18 Fiscal Year 2023-2024(FY 23-24). 19 1.5 Update/discussion regarding the current 25 status of the FY 2023-2024 Proposed Budget. 20 *** Adjournment. 96 21 *** Reporter's Certificate. 97 22 * * * * * * 23 24 25 3 1 JUDGE KELLY: Come to order. It is Monday, 2 August the 7th, 2023, it's 9:00 o'clock in the morning 3 and the Kerr County Commissioners' Court is now in 4 session, and this is a special meeting. This is the 5 first Monday of the month; not the second Monday, which 6 is our regular meeting. And with that, we don't do 7 prayer. We don't do pledge, we don't do public input, 8 and we don't do Commissioners' Comment. So we get to go 9 straight to business at hand. 10 Consideration agenda item 1.1 consider, 11 discuss and take appropriate action to appoint a 12 Grievance Committee, pursuant to the Texas Local 13 Government Code, in the event a -- and a grievance is 14 filed, so we have to do this, by an elected official 15 regarding the proposed salaries for elected officials 16 for 23-24 that was approved by the Court on July 31, and 17 provided to the elected officials on August 1 -- 18 provided to the elected officials. We do have a 19 grievance. We do need a Grievance Committee. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's eligible to be on 21 the Grievance Committee? 22 JUDGE KELLY: Heather briefed me. But 23 basically the overview is, there are six people that are 24 designated in the statute to serve on the Grievance 25 Committee. We need three public members that have to be 4 1 from the grand jury list. And I -- as the County Judge 2 I preside over it but no vote. Only those nine people 3 vote. That's the rules. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: That's correct. And the 5 statute also permits this being all nine voting members 6 from the public. But that is -- that's only if the 7 Commissioners' Court chooses that option. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we've got 29 people on 9 the list. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: That's right. 11 JUDGE KELLY: I doubt that we'll get nine 12 off that, to tell you the truth, that would be willing 13 to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 15 JUDGE KELLY: I mean we're getting ready -- 16 this is going to be a pain in the rump. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Right. And so Jackie has in 18 front of her -- the County Clerk has in front of her 19 basically the list of the 29 names, it has to be blindly 20 drawn. And so she can draw them for you and I will get 21 them to Dawn Lantz to send out the notices to the -- to 22 the three that are chosen. And we'll also choose three 23 alternates in case they are unavailable. 24 JUDGE KELLY: And I think -- and I 25 recommended at least three alternates. Because -- 5 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 2 JUDGE KELLY: -- these 29 people don't see 3 this coming. This is going to be a cold call. And 4 trust me, they've already given service to the County 5 and this is going to be an imposition. And a lot of 6 people are going to opt out not to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And when does all this 8 have to be taken up by or heard? 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I mean, the clock's 11 ticking. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, it is. 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Unfortunately -- 14 JUDGE KELLY: We have to have it posted 15 by -- I think it has to -- it's posted by the 17th, 16 which means getting it to the newspaper on the 16th of 17 August. Where is Jody? 18 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Right here. The current 19 plan is to put it in the newspaper on the 16th -- 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 21 MRS. GRINSTEAD: -- which means we'd have to 22 have it probably by the 14th. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 24 MRS. GRINSTEAD: If not -- I mean, if it 25 doesn't get done by then it just pushes off adopting the 6 1 budget, because there are such time frames. 2 JUDGE KELLY: The law gives us ten days, but 3 we don't have ten days. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: And the meeting -- well, the 5 committee meeting has to be posted just like 6 Commissioners' Court and the agendas, it has to be 7 posted within the 72 hours. So you'll also -- if it's a 8 unanimous by the nine, a Commissioners' Court doesn't 9 have any discretion. If it is six or more, the 10 Commissioners' Court can take their recommendation in 11 consideration in setting the salaries. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And if it's less than six? 13 MRS. STEBBINS: Then it won't need to go 14 back to Commissioners' Court. There's not enough to 15 change the salary. 16 JUDGE KELLY: It takes six votes to -- 17 MRS. STEBBINS: To get it even before you 18 guys -- that's before y'all for consideration, it takes 19 six. Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So if there's than six 21 votes on the committee of nine, then it does not come 22 back to us and nothing changes? 23 MRS. STEBBINS: Correct. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So that the public 25 knows, and the Court knows, y'all may not have seen this 7 1 list. Could you read off the six people that are on the 2 committee by statute? 3 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE KELLY: In addition to yourself. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: It is the Sheriff, the Tax 6 Collector, the County Treasurer, the County Clerk, the 7 District Clerk, and the County Attorney or Criminal 8 District Attorney, but because we have a County Attorney 9 instead of a Criminal District Attorney it's just me, in 10 addition to the three members of the public, selected 11 blindly by the Commissioners' Court from a list of names 12 of persons who served on the grand jury in the preceding 13 year. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: And who replaces an 15 individual if they're -- if one of the members is 16 submitting a grievance? 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Nobody. They get to vote on 18 their own. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Nobody, huh? 20 JUDGE KELLY: None of those six are 21 submitting a grievance. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. One of the six is -- 23 has submitted a grievance and she'll get to vote on it 24 as well. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: She does. Okay. 8 1 MRS. STEBBINS: She'll remain a voting 2 member of that committee. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Okay. Good. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Anything else on this? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's pull names. 6 Somebody. Jody, why don't you pull from the -- or I'll 7 pull -- someone pull. 8 MRS. STEBBINS: No, it doesn't have to be, 9 but that -- would y'all like -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: I would like Tanya. She's 11 hired by the District Judges. 12 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And she's here to hold us 14 accountable. Hold us accountable. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You get to be Vanna 16 White. 17 MRS. SHELTON: Oh, this is easy. 18 (Mrs. Shelton pulling names.) 19 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. So there's the three. 20 Will you will take that up for us, Jackie. 21 MRS. DOWDY: Uh-huh. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Thank you. And then here 23 are three alternates. 24 MRS. DOWDY: Tanya, wait a second. I need a 25 pen. Do we have a pen? Here, you sign and then I'll 9 1 sign. 2 JUDGE KELLY: Do y'all think we can get by 3 with just three alternates? Probably not. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. How many would you 5 like to draw? 6 JUDGE KELLY: How about five? 7 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. Who wants -- 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I don't disagree. 9 MRS. STEBBINS: Got it. Thank you. Let me 10 borrow that. There you go. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: And what happens if out 12 of those eight we don't come up with three? Do we have 13 to come back and do it again? Do we? 14 MRS. STEBBINS: I think we have to do it 15 again. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I was just asking. 17 MRS. STEBBINS: You'll have to do it again. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I suspect out of the 19 eight you may come up with three. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: I hope so. I'm just 21 asking. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And the person that 23 filed a grievance on the committee? 24 JUDGE KELLY: By statute they're on it. 25 MRS. STEBBINS: And they get to vote. 10 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But I thought it could 2 be all nine other people. I mean -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Nine public. But we only have 4 29 names on the grand jury list. We're not going to get 5 nine people out of 29. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I was just wondering. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, doesn't matter. 8 Yeah. That's fine. One vote out of nine. 9 JUDGE KELLY: The one thing about the six 10 that are statutorily included in the committee is they 11 don't have a choice. They're here. They're captive. 12 So we've got six. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Including you. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, I'm on. Herding more 15 cats. 16 MRS. STEBBINS: Is there anything else I can 17 do for you? 18 JUDGE KELLY: No, I think that's got that. 19 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So there's really no 21 action. 22 JUDGE KELLY: No, I think we probably should 23 go ahead, and I'll make a motion that we appoint this 24 Grievance Committee made of the statutory six as 25 designated, plus three alternates, and we've drawn those 11 1 out of the random -- drawn those blindly, and Jackie 2 sealed them and then you're going to deliver them to 3 Dawn? 4 MRS. STEBBINS: Dawn Lantz, who will send 5 the notices out of the date of the meeting. 6 JUDGE KELLY: So that -- checks and balances 7 the whole way down? 8 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: And I've sealed these so 11 that they can remain blind until they get to Dawn Lantz, 12 who generally deals with our grand jurors. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So I make a motion to 14 authorize you to deliver that to Dawn Lantz -- 15 MRS. STEBBINS: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: -- to select this committee. 18 We've got a motion and a second. 19 MRS. DOWDY: Who seconded it? 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: I did. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Any discussion? Those in 22 favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. 23 Okay. We've got, I think, three items in a 24 row here. We'll take them one at a time. Item 1.2 is 25 to consider, discuss and take appropriate action to 12 1 approve the first amendment -- pardon? 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: No, just talking. 3 JUDGE KELLY: -- the first amendment to the 4 Interlocal Agreement for the Texas -- the Hill Country 5 Regional Public Defender's Office, which is between 6 Bandera, Gillespie, Kendall, Kerr, and Medina Counties 7 for fiscal year 22-23. 8 Now, let me emphasize, that is last 9 year's -- this current year's budget that we're trying 10 to do an amendment on. 11 And at first, Commissioner Letz and I had 12 been confused about this. We had a conference call last 13 Wednesday, with about eight or ten people on it to find 14 out -- to help us understand what it is. And what 15 happened was when we changed the administrative agency 16 from Kerr County to Medina County, and we adopted a new 17 Interlocal Agreement for FY 22-23, which is the one it's 18 currently under, it has a lengthy -- and I brought it 19 here to show it to you if you want to see it -- a 20 lengthy paragraph three. Right here. And I'll pass it 21 around and let you guys see it. 22 And that lengthy paragraph three was a 23 formula by which we were going to true up the numbers 24 between what was allocated between the counties and some 25 overpayment. So we had two issues. We had one on 13 1 allocations and one on overpayment. The reason we had 2 overpayments is because we do this on a grant with TIDC 3 and we then budget what our match is for that grant. 4 And we never have spent the whole grant; therefore, we 5 never spent our whole match; therefore, every county had 6 some excess to be refunded. We did that last, what -- 7 in the spring. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. February, March. 10 Something like that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We voted to refund it to 12 all the counties. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I remember the 14 conversations. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Then the other thing -- 16 the reason that we need this amendment is, the other 17 thing that we brought to the Court back in the spring 18 was Medina County has a different accounting program app 19 of some sort that allows them to give us a current case 20 count each month, instead of having to wait for that one 21 year. 22 Remember, we had the May 31 and June 1 of 23 the following year to do a case count to allocate how 24 we're going to -- each of us are going to share our 25 respective share of expenses, they can do it live per 14 1 month. And so we agreed at the PDO back in the spring 2 to change to that because that's -- that's an 3 improvement from where we've been. But when we changed 4 to it, it means we can't use this old paragraph three 5 that I'm passing around for you to see. Okay. So we 6 need a new paragraph three. 7 Well, we came up with a new paragraph three, 8 and in the new FY 23-24 -- and then I put that on there 9 so you can see it and pass it around to three and 10 four -- but if you look at the old one, paragraph four 11 has nothing to do with the compensation. It has to do 12 with the -- old paragraph four. I'm losing them now. 13 Where did it go? That's the new one. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh, I passed it on so. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's pass it back. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, that's it. Okay. Here 17 it is. The old paragraph four, which is numbered in the 18 Interlocal Agreement, is the provision that each County 19 appoints two representatives to serve on the oversight 20 board and Medina County appoints three, which has 21 nothing to do with this allocation. 22 So in the new -- right here, in the new 23 one -- this is the one that we're going to address here 24 in just a minute, which will be in effect for this 25 coming year, beginning October 1, it has a paragraph 15 1 three and four. And the three looks like the first 2 paragraph in that amendment. But four is something that 3 we didn't number, this is the reason it's not 4 enumerated, because it had to go in paragraph three of 5 the old agreement because we already had a four. So 6 that -- that's the history of why no number four on 7 there. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sounds like who's on 9 first. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I know. And it -- I got 11 to tell you, I spent about a day reading all this crap, 12 but figured it out. And there's no problem. Everything 13 is -- the PDO is doing fine. Doing great. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. 15 JUDGE KELLY: There's complete cooperation 16 between the counties. But we had this -- nobody was 17 explaining how this was supposed to work. Once we got 18 it explained, everybody understood. And so it's -- this 19 is just routine now. So what we're doing here is trying 20 to amend the old one, so that Medina County can invoice. 21 They have not invoiced for PDO services since February. 22 So they're several months behind. 23 And as they were explaining this, they were 24 complaining that, gosh, we're having to front all this 25 money for everybody because we haven't been able to bill 16 1 you. And I said, I feel your pain. Because we did it 2 for a year and a half. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So, once all this is 4 fixed, it ought to click along a lot quicker and easier 5 where nobody gets that far out of line. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and what we're doing, 7 we're doing it in live time. We're doing the case count 8 in live time and we're paying our expenses on the actual 9 expenses of that month per our allocation percentage. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly. 11 JUDGE KELLY: So this is seamless now. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Okay. Just 13 riding the ship now. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Now, we figured out how to do 15 all this. They figured out how to make it easier. So 16 it's all good. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Good. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: So do we have adequate 19 provisions in our next year's budget such that, you 20 know, if Kerr County incurs a heavier caseload we won't 21 be messed up too badly? Since this obviously could 22 vary? 23 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we've got -- we've got 24 the contingency for that, the general contingency. But 25 we've got plenty of money in that. 17 1 Just so that everyone knows, when we started 2 the PDO, which was back in actually, what, '21, the 3 first grant was stared in October 1 of '20. Is that 4 right? 5 MRS. SHELTON: I believe. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. We did it all to the 7 Office of Court Administration, the OCA's case count, 8 and at that point, Kerr County at 38 point something 9 percent of the cases of the five counties. And so we 10 paid through the nose for the first 22 months or so. 11 And when we finally got our first case count, we put it 12 in there to be able to finish that case count before 13 budget so we could address exactly what you're concerned 14 about. 15 When we got that case count, well, lo and 16 behold, we didn't have 38 percent of the case load. It 17 was pretty much even between Medina and Kerr at about 32 18 each. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Right at that. And I looked 21 at the latest one, the daily one at the Friday Regional 22 PDO meeting, and Medina is about a percent or two ahead 23 of us right now, which I kinda like. But the bottom 24 line is, and the expense that we have that the County is 25 spending to pay attorneys for indigent defendants has 18 1 radically decreased. And we were awarded our -- this 2 would be our fourth grant; is that right, Tanya? 3 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Our fourth one. Another two 5 and a half million dollar grant from TIDC for the 6 Regional PDO. We are the model for the State. They're 7 happy with us. They keep giving us the grants. Keep 8 saving us money. This has worked out for us. 9 So my motion is that we approve the first 10 amendment to the FY 22-23 Interlocal Agreement. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 13 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Those opposed? 14 Motion carries. 15 Let's go on to Item 1.3. You can see we're 16 cleaning up PDO here. Consider, discuss and take 17 appropriate action regarding Texas Indigent Defense 18 Commission grant award for FY '24. 19 That's the two and a half million dollar 20 grant I just spoke of. Technically, the grant is given 21 from the State of Texas to Medina County, as the 22 administrative agent. But Medina County, and I think 23 likely so, wanted all the counties to approve taking the 24 grant. So I don't think legally necessary that we do, 25 but they've asked us to approve it so I move that we 19 1 approve the grant that we've just been awarded for two 2 and a half million dollars. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 6 approve the FY '24 TIDC grant. Any discussion? Those 7 in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. 8 Okay. Take a breath. Last thing on the 9 PDO. 1.4 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 10 to approve the Interlocal Agreement for the Hill Country 11 Regional Public Defender's Office between Bandera, 12 Gillespie, Kendall, Kerr, and Medina Counties for 13 FY '23-'24, which will be the end of this year and into 14 next year. So I'll make a motion that we approve the 15 Interlocal Agreement for FY '23-'24. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 17 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I have a question on 19 this one. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yes, sir. Oh, yes. The 21 automatic renewal. If you look over paragraph 11, they 22 changed the language of the opt out paragraph. Let me 23 see. And the old opt out paragraph merely said that 24 each County has 90 days to give notice to opt out before 25 the end of the Interlocal Agreement, which meant that 20 1 since the Interlocal Agreement starts on October 1, 2 you've got September, August, and July, you have to give 3 notice by early July to get out. It didn't provide 4 written notice, it just said notice, and just opt out. 5 That's all it said. And inflicted in that was every 6 year we renew the ILA, just like we just did. Okay. 7 We have a -- I think the landscape has 8 changed a little bit in the PDO, we have -- of the 9 original five County judges, there's only two of us 10 left. There's only -- and of the original board members 11 in addition to those two judges, there's only two of us 12 left. 13 So we stared off with 11. And we've got 14 four that know how we've done it, and we've got a whole 15 bunch of new faces. And it's going good. But it 16 conjected some -- some new ideas. And one of them is 17 Kendall County does not have a County Attorney. A lot 18 of people don't know that, but they don't. Well, 19 they've got a combined District/County Attorney. So 20 it's a whole different system they have over there. 21 And when Kendall County came in, the County 22 Judge at the time who has since retired, appointed their 23 general counsel -- Kendall County has a general counsel 24 to serve on the Board. Well, he's since retired and 25 moved away to another part of the state, and they have a 21 1 new general counsel who has ideas of his own. And 2 they're reasonable. But they're new ideas. 3 And in Medina County. They have a combined 4 County/District Attorney also, but they had a member of 5 the D.A.'s office who does the civil work, which is 6 probably more common than the general counsel system. 7 And she has new ideas, too. So, we have two new lawyers 8 telling us how to run our PDO that's working just fine. 9 And they came up with -- well, it is what it 10 is. And they're doing a great job. I'm not criticizing 11 them. I'm just saying you've got to deal with people 12 that, you know, they don't understand this is the way 13 we've always done it. So they wanted to put a provision 14 in here that allows for written notice of default, 15 defines the term a little bit more than just saying 16 fiscal year. They want to make sure that it says 17 midnight, September -- yeah, which is -- that's fine. I 18 have no problems with that. 19 But then they also put this provision in 20 there, the last sentence which says any party may opt 21 out of the agreement annually on October 1st of a given 22 year by giving 90-day written notice to the board and to 23 all Commissioner's Courts participating in this 24 agreement; otherwise, the agreement shall automatically 25 renew with the same renewal provisions for any extension 22 1 thereafter. 2 Well -- and I told them -- I'll tell ya the 3 adjective that I used. I said my court's a little 4 quirky. They want to renew it every year. They don't 5 want an automatic renewal. And that's the truth. We 6 renew it every year. It's a good practice. We don't 7 have to do that, but that's what we choose to do. And I 8 think it's good to take a look at it once a year. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 10 JUDGE KELLY: But -- and the problem about 11 automatic renewals, is you get into the problem of the 12 existing court obligating a future court for which we 13 cannot do by law. And so, when the composition of this 14 Court changes and -- they need to be able to have the 15 right to make their own decision on this issue. And so 16 we all objected to the automatic renewal. It's still in 17 the -- in the language that's in the agreement. 18 When we all met last Friday, we agreed 19 that -- we all agreed to adopt this ILA, but we're 20 taking out that automatic renewal sentence. 21 So let me revise my motion in adopting this: 22 Removing the automatic renewal provision in paragraph 23 12 -- 11. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: 11, yeah. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you did a good job 2 getting that done. 3 JUDGE KELLY: We had a busy day on Friday. 4 A busy day. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- you know, and 6 I agree with -- totally with getting rid of that, 7 because I just -- in the past, not with this agreement, 8 but with other agreements, when you automatically renew 9 them and there's a problem, they get kicked down the 10 road, kicked down the road, and all of a sudden there's 11 a big blow up and causes a problem. And I think it's -- 12 the Courts need to look at it and take ten minutes, five 13 minutes to renew it every year and that's what we should 14 be doing in my mind. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Get with the new 16 members, get on board and see what's actually happening. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And understand that. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And this is going to 19 change a lot in the next couple years. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Well, and just by way of a 21 status report to the public and everybody that -- 22 especially that works with the PDO, it has been 23 enormously successful. And we went through a bumpy 24 phase when we had several southern counties south of 25 Bexar County that wanted to join us because we were so 24 1 successful. And we were split among the five counties. 2 Some wanted to let them in and some wanted them to stay 3 where they were because they didn't like the fact that 4 they had worked with Texas Legal Rural Aid, which was a 5 bad model. Let's just put it this way, a model not near 6 as good as ours. 7 And that's when we made the decision to go 8 ahead and move the agency down to Medina County and let 9 them do the admin work, and they're doing a good job. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And those other counties 11 did not join. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And those other counties did 13 not join and we've gone back and looked at the whole 14 situation to see, you know, hindsight 20/20 vision, we 15 made the right call. By far -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 17 JUDGE KELLY: -- we made the right call. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we haven't even said 19 our votes yet. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: So you're amending your 22 motion? 23 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, I revised my motion to 24 go with the renewal. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. I'll second. 25 1 JUDGE KELLY: So we got a motion and a 2 second to renew the FY 23-24 Interlocal Agreement for 3 the PDO without the automatic renewal language. Any 4 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Okay. 5 Motion carries. 6 Okay. The last issue. And that is the 7 update and discussion regarding current status of the 8 FY 23-24 proposed budget. And I put this on the agenda 9 because I'm getting a lot of questions about how we got 10 from the initial proposed budget that came out last 11 spring to where we are today. 12 And just to briefly recap, the initial 13 budget that I proposed had revenues of about 40 million 14 dollars and expenditures of almost 50 million dollars, 15 for a 9.7 million dollar deficit. Well, that's just a 16 proposed budget, that -- but that was my proposed 17 budget, and then we start the workshop process and we 18 start going through and we hear everybody's needs. 19 And we go through a series of these 20 workshops, and then after the first round of workshops 21 we have another summary prepared by the Auditor's 22 Office, and at this point the expenditures were still -- 23 I mean, excuse me, the revenues were still at the 40 24 million dollars. 25 We hadn't gotten the Appraisal District's 26 1 latest appraisals. But the expenses rose from slightly 2 less than 50 to over 57 and a half million dollars. And 3 that was back in July, and that had a deficit budget of 4 over 17 million dollars. That's not acceptable for me. 5 I'm sorry. I can't count them as that. 6 And then we finished up with the latest 7 version, as of July 31, and we included the new 8 revenues. We went from 40 million dollars worth of 9 revenues to 50 million dollars worth of revenues, which 10 we had a ten million dollar deficit. If we'd stayed on 11 our original budget we might have had a balanced budget, 12 I don't know. 13 But we increased the expenditures up to 62 14 and a half million dollars. So that's 12 and a half 15 million dollars more than what was initially proposed. 16 And we have a deficit budget of slightly less than 11 17 million dollars. That is not my budget. In any way, 18 shape or form, that's not my budget. 19 That budget -- in the first four years in 20 this office, I owned the budget. We go through the fine 21 tuning, all of it, and I'm the one that takes the heat. 22 Takes the criticism. But this year, this is not my 23 budget. And I think it's important for this Court, I 24 think it's important for the public to understand, that 25 this is this Court's budget. This Court's. 27 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Without a doubt. All 2 of us. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All of us. 5 JUDGE KELLY: But I -- I don't want -- I 6 don't like surprises. And I don't want anybody else to 7 be surprised. I cannot vote for this budget. I've 8 wrestled with my conscience on it. And I'm -- I'm 9 subject to being persuaded and arm twisted, but as it 10 presently stands, I'm not voting for this budget. 11 Now, those of you may ask, well, what 12 happens if we don't adopt this budget? Because right 13 now we've only got two choices. We either adopt this 14 budget, with 62 and a half million dollars worth of 15 expenses and almost 12 million dollars worth of deficit 16 in it, and if we don't adopt that budget, then we 17 default back to last year's budget, as I understand it 18 correctly. I -- I ran that passed the County Attorney. 19 I'm right about that, right? 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Uh-huh. 21 JUDGE KELLY: So it would be a default back 22 to where we were. But again, I don't want to surprise 23 y'all. I don't like being surprised. I'm not throwing 24 a tantrum. I'm just saying I am not pleased with this 25 budget and I'm not going to vote for it. 28 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I don't think any of 2 us are pleased with it. For the numerous times I wish 3 we could die at 2019 prices. But all of us sat in on 4 all the workshops and gave input or had a chance to give 5 input. So, Judge, I think all five of us, sat in on 6 them, and we all take the heat. 7 JUDGE KELLY: I agree with that. But I'm 8 tapping the brake. I'm not going on record saying this 9 is good. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question that 11 comes -- I mean, I know the budget is, you know, too 12 big, but to try to figure out where to cut it is very, 13 very difficult because of a lot of the needs we have, 14 and a lot of the kicking the can down the road for the 15 last three years. So that's part of the reason. It's 16 our -- our salaries are the biggest part of that. 17 So, you know, it's easy to say I'm voting 18 against the budget, to fall on the last year's budget is 19 going to hurt taxpayers, employees, everything. So 20 there's got to be a middle ground of coming up with a 21 where do you want to cut the budget? 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Well, the hard work was not 24 done when it should have been done and that's the 25 complaint that I'm making. I asked if anybody had any 29 1 suggestions on how to cut the budget. Nobody had any. 2 Here we are. So -- here we are. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I mean -- 4 but if anyone's going to vote against the budget has to 5 come up with options of what -- what should be cut out 6 of the budget to get them to vote for the budget. 7 That's my point of view. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's reasonable. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Well, this is a special 10 introspect any way you slice it. We're having problems 11 recruiting and retaining employees. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: I agree. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Especially in two departments. 14 Road & Bridge and Sheriff's Office. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Without a doubt. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: And those are the two 17 primary functions of the County government -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- that we have to 20 provide those service. 21 JUDGE KELLY: I understand. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I've talked to a 23 lot of constituents and they understand that. They are 24 not for higher taxes or anything, but they understand 25 those two departments are -- are important enough that 30 1 they agree that -- they agree with that. 2 JUDGE KELLY: But they were supposed to be 3 recruitment and retention. That's it. Okay. And that 4 generally goes in for the ranking file members of those 5 departments. That's where we're having the hardest 6 time. But we're giving 25 percent increase to the 7 Sheriff's Office and ten percent to Road & Bridge office 8 for senior management. And that's on top of five 9 percent wage adjustment for all the employees. 10 And -- and we have included -- 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: And approved. 12 JUDGE KELLY: -- whether we like it or not, 13 we've included the entire ask for Road & Bridge to 14 finance the equipment, okay. Everything that was asked 15 for for this year is in that and it's going to be 16 financed with that limited tax note. 17 Now, one of the things that a lot of people 18 miss out when you look at these -- these budget 19 summaries that get publicly passed around, there's a 20 transfer item in there where we take out of the fund 21 balance and transfer to Road & Bridge just to keep 22 operations going. And what, 2.34 this year -- million. 23 On top of the equipment. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option could 25 have been in other years to raise their tax rate. And 31 1 we chose not to for the last, I think as long as I've 2 been a Commissioner. We felt that it was better to do 3 the transfer out of the general fund to Road & Bridge 4 rather than raise the Road & Bridge tax, which we have 5 every ability to do. 6 So that's why we -- I mean, to the public 7 it's neither here nor there. I mean it's -- if you did 8 the transfer or if you do the -- raise the Road & Bridge 9 taxes and lower the other tax rate, it doesn't make any 10 difference. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, we've lowered the tax 12 rate the last three years. We're not going to be able 13 to lower the tax rate this year. I think we all know 14 that. We don't know if we're talking about a couple 15 cents, three or four cents, I'm sure. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Part of the problem we 17 haven't had that discussion yet. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Well, it's coming. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: I know. 20 JUDGE KELLY: But also, there is some -- 21 some expenses that we are funding through sources of 22 revenue that we will not have next year. We've got 23 almost -- we've got I think eight million dollars worth 24 of our ARPA funds in this budget. And they're all going 25 for legitimate things, they're not going to be called 32 1 back. I know that was one of your concerns. But we've 2 done well on that to get them into the areas that were 3 designated for. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: I still have concerns 5 but it's too late. So I rest that argument. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, GrantWorks assures that 7 we've got it in the right place. So we're comfortable 8 with that. And we're taking a bunch of money out of our 9 fund balance. You know, we had almost 16 million 10 dollars in the fund balance. And we're cutting that 11 down to about ten. So that's ten million dollars in the 12 County savings account that's being spent that's not 13 going to be there next year. 14 So when we start talking about raising taxes 15 for this year, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Look 16 what's coming behind us. We're not going to be able to 17 fund this kind of budget next year under any 18 circumstance. So when do we go ahead and quit kicking 19 the can? So that's where we are. And that's just -- 20 that's a discussion item. There's nothing for us to do. 21 I'm a grouchy old guy and I like to growl 22 sometimes. I think that we are at a pivotal point that 23 we're going to have to figure out how we're going to run 24 this government and manage these funds a little bit 25 better. So that's all I have. 33 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, you remember -- 2 and cuts are tough. Cuts are tough. The requests are 3 tough. They're all needed. But I suggested cutting 4 back on some capital outlay, projects and stuff, and 5 that's a place to start in my -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: Pretty much we have. What do 7 we have left in capital outlay? 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I was talking 9 about Road & Bridge, some of those things. 10 JUDGE KELLY: Oh. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Some of those new 12 bells and whistles. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Well, Road & Bridge, you know, 14 it's -- 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Don't want to, but 16 that's a place to start. I thought. 17 JUDGE KELLY: You're damned if you do and 18 you're damned if you don't. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. 20 JUDGE KELLY: We did it for so long and we 21 ended up with a fleet of antiquated, obsolete equipment. 22 And Kelly, I -- I'm not complaining. 23 MS. HOFFER: I know. 24 JUDGE KELLY: I -- I sat down with you. 25 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 34 1 JUDGE KELLY: And we went over it. And we 2 came up with a plan and you stuck to the plan. And I 3 understand that. So I'm not fussing at you for doing 4 what I recommended that you do. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: She's been great to 6 work with. 7 JUDGE KELLY: But -- but we gotta look at 8 where's this money going to come from? And once we put 9 it in the budget this year, folks, it's done. We're not 10 going to be able to go back and cut salaries. Not going 11 to do that. 12 You know, it's -- I understand we're going 13 to have to make wage adjustments. We did the salary 14 study a couple years ago and that was -- that was a good 15 thing and I think -- I think it helped us. And we got 16 some of the salaries up to where they needed to be to be 17 competitive in our market. 18 And every year -- not every year, but you 19 know every few years we need to do that again. And 20 these raises, I -- I understand that where senior 21 management is, it's probably below market. But can we 22 afford all of this in one year, or is this something 23 that we stagger out over multiple years? I don't know. 24 The boots on the ground. The CDLs and the first 25 responders, we can't dodge that. We can't postpone 35 1 that. That's reality. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that what 3 you're saying though, Judge, is that we need to look 4 at -- or you would like to look at, and I would agree 5 with you, at what you're calling senior management what 6 that increase is, which I don't really have a good feel 7 for that. I mean, I don't know what -- I'm trying to 8 think -- I don't know that there is any senior 9 management other than Kelly at Road & Bridge. I mean, I 10 guess you have your two leads. Sheriff, I don't know, 11 you know, where senior starts. 12 SHERIFF LEITHA: Well -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it sergeant and 14 above? Is it -- 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that's to be discussed. 16 But, where I come from -- where I'm coming from, is the 17 people at the bottom of this pyramid, we can't recruit 18 and we can't retain. And something has to be done. And 19 Kelly's come up with a good plan on CDLs. The Sheriff's 20 come up with a good plan on improving and trying to 21 bring in first responders. 22 And so how much of that do we do? Do we do 23 everything in one year? And then what do we do next 24 year? I don't know. I'm just telling y'all, I don't 25 know. And -- and I understand numbers pretty well. But 36 1 I just don't know. I don't know where it's going to 2 come from. 3 Now somebody did ask me, well, what do you 4 have to say that's hopeful? And I mentioned this to one 5 of the Commissioners this morning, I'm tapped out, the 6 hopeful thing is that whether we like it or not, our 7 community's growing and we're bringing in new 8 businesses. We're building new roof tops. We're taking 9 properties off the ag rolls and putting them on fair 10 market value rolls. This is all in -- in the works. 11 Whether we like it or not. It's just happening to us. 12 And for us to catch up -- remember, we 13 started the year with almost 700 five-acre plus lots on 14 the drawing board. Well, we haven't brought a bunch -- 15 we haven't -- we brought some of those on line but not 16 all of them. But they're going to happen and they're 17 going to happen over the next several years. And 18 there's more coming, such that we're going to have more 19 roof tops. 20 And I'm not going to say anything about 21 KADC, but we do have some new employment opportunities, 22 and sales tax opportunities, huge sales tax 23 opportunities that are coming to Kerr County right now, 24 and we're going to be able to have a better income. I 25 do see some hope for the future. I just don't know how 37 1 many years it's going to take before it arrives. I'm 2 guessing at least two to three. It could be more than 3 that. I don't know. But it's coming. And we're going 4 to end up at the end of the day, believe it or not, a 5 little bit like Gillespie County and Kendall County. 6 And Medina County, they're on the eastern edge with the 7 closest to San Antonio, where we actually have more 8 revenues coming in than we're spending. That's what 9 they have. They're growing so much, they've got more 10 money than they're spending. We're just not there yet. 11 And so that's -- the hopeful thing is, be 12 patient. We're going to get there. But right now we've 13 got to figure out -- we've got to pinch pennies and 14 figure out how to balance the -- not balance the budget 15 but to fund the budget. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things I 17 wanted to also bring up is you talk about the growth, 18 and with the growth comes more work for every department 19 that we're really not talking about a whole lot. County 20 Clerk, District Clerk, Auditor, County Attorney. 21 Every -- I mean you can name every one of them. 22 Treasurer. 23 I mean, as we grow, all those departments 24 are taking on more work. And all those departments have 25 done a really good job of keeping their staffing levels 38 1 comfortable. We had very few new people. We take a few 2 part-time and put them full time, add a few part-time 3 people here and there. You know, so one of the reasons 4 I'm -- I'm having a real hard time going with not giving 5 our employees a market adjustment of five percent is 6 because they deserve it. They are doing more work. 7 They are doing extra things. And not to say that Road & 8 Bridge and the Sheriff, I disagree with what they're 9 asking for -- I agree with those as well. But, you 10 know, our employees are all doing more work. It's just 11 bottom line. 12 JUDGE KELLY: I agree. In fact, if you take 13 the average of the inflation rate for last year and the 14 inflation rate for this year, the two of them average 15 out at 12 percent. We did a five percent wage 16 adjustment last year and five percent this year, so 17 that's ten. So our employees are still two percent 18 down. 19 But the story's worse than that. They're 20 more than that down. When you go to HEB and you stop at 21 the gas pump or you go in and start trying to buy your 22 groceries, you know that you can't buy as much as you 23 used to. And one of the things that I think some people 24 lost sight of is when you talk about the national 25 inflation rate, the average nationwide, that doesn't hit 39 1 Texas for a year or two. So we're just now feeling the 2 nine percent crunch of last year. And we're not able to 3 offset it. But there is a lag time there. It happens 4 with the recession and I -- I've been through enough 5 recessions to tell you, it does happen. 6 They're complaining on the east coast about 7 a big recession and on the west coast a big recession 8 and we're in Texas, we're pumping gas and doing good 9 then the next thing you know two years later we're in 10 the tank. And so we run about two years behind. And so 11 we're pedaling trying to figure out how to balance all 12 of this stuff and we didn't do a very good job this 13 year, in my opinion. So -- and I own it. But this is 14 not my budget. This Court owns this budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, going forward, to 16 look at this budget what are our dates? I mean, we have 17 the tax -- we've got to look at the base, we haven't 18 looked at tax breaks. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not the -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I think today's the date 22 that Bob's working on the -- it's submittal date, right? 23 MRS. SHELTON: The 14th is when -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 14th? 25 JUDGE KELLY: The 14th is -- 40 1 MRS. SHELTON: -- that -- that could be 2 shown. 3 JUDGE KELLY: -- that's the first time we 4 had the public discussion about it. 5 MR. REEVES: Until the Court provides the 6 Auditor and myself with some type of term debt number 7 for sure on capital improvements, I can't complete the 8 tax rate. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 10 MR. REEVES: Because that's a major 11 component of the tax rate. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 13 MR. REEVES: And you know, so the Court can 14 get with the Auditor and she then can get with me and 15 say, all right, we need this much for capital 16 improvements. We know the bond, that's fixed. But 17 we're looking at two different aspects of a new debt 18 rate this year. One, the bond, voter approved. 19 The second is moving the capital 20 improvements. Until we know both those, I cannot 21 calculate a confirmed debt rate. 22 JUDGE KELLY: We're still in limbo. We're 23 current on our schedule, but we're still in limbo 24 because we just don't -- we can't get it all done just 25 yet. I think we adopt the budget -- 41 1 MRS. SHELTON: The 28th. 2 JUDGE KELLY: -- the 28th of this month. 3 And then we adopt the tax rate on September the 11th. 4 MRS. SHELTON: Correct. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Which ironically is the date 6 that the Twin Creeks lawsuit is set for trial. We're 7 working on that. 8 Any other discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess what -- 10 or my question is, back to what's the plan for us to 11 look at the budget again? 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. We probably need 13 another special workshop. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: We'll want to have some 16 in depth discussion on what, if anything, we can carve 17 up. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly. 19 MR. REEVES: Judge, Commissioners, before 20 you can adopt the tax rate, you're going to have to 21 propose one because there's publication requirements 22 that I have to meet by statute. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I would recommend 24 that we have a meeting either this week or early next 25 week to look at the budget one more time to see where we 42 1 sit. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: I also agree. 4 JUDGE KELLY: I'll make the Auditor go to 5 the podium because she -- we need to hear it. 6 MRS. SHELTON: We're going to need it before 7 then. Again, what you're talking about, we're still 8 trying to put the pencil to the details that were 9 discussed on the 31st. We need direction right now. So 10 if you're having a meeting, you've got to have it 11 earlier, not later. We're down to crunch time and the 12 14th should be the proposed budget. 13 So if y'all are going to look at cutting and 14 changes, I guess I need people in my office, would be my 15 suggestion, individually, and y'all each tell me what 16 you would like to do. And then based on that, I can go 17 in and do a whole new proposed budget, if three of y'all 18 tell me the same thing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we do it that way, 20 County Attorney? It seems like that's avoiding a public 21 meeting. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: Well, I would be cautious 23 with that. If you were just communicating to Tanya what 24 you want and she's not telling any of y'all what the 25 other one says, that's safer. But that's -- I'd be 43 1 cautious. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Sounds a little 3 tricky. How about today or tomorrow? Next day? 4 JUDGE KELLY: We've got to post it. We 5 could post it today for Friday. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I won't be here Friday. 7 (Talking over.) 8 JUDGE KELLY: I'm not saying it is. I'm 9 just telling -- if you want, have it posted on Thursday 10 for Monday. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, she wants it 12 quicker than that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if we post it 14 today we can do it Thursday, right? 15 MRS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. Anytime after 16 whatever time -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After 10 o'clock. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: If you have an item today, 19 if you have suggestions for Tanya today, you have this 20 time to do that during this meeting. If you need more 21 time to provide suggestions about how to cut the budget, 22 you can recess for another time, maybe tomorrow. 23 MRS. SHELTON: Well, thank you. 24 MRS. STEBBINS: You're welcome. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Whatever works. I'll 44 1 make it work. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: Do you have suggestions 3 today? 4 MRS. SHELTON: What I heard was reaffirming 5 the budget we have, from the conversation. That doesn't 6 mean that that's what you would choose to do, but -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I guess the 8 question is on the capital items on Road & Bridge, what 9 does the budget impact if we cut out two and a half 10 million out of that? I mean, what was your total this 11 would make? 12 MRS. SHELTON: I would have to go back and 13 look at that. That's on the sheet that I gave y'all. 14 The six different loan amounts -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MRS. SHELTON: -- with the different pay 17 back periods. I -- I don't know what it would be off 18 the top of my head. If you want to give me a minute, I 19 can bring that back. That sheet back. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm just 21 wondering if -- if it really has that much of an impact 22 since we're financing it. 23 MRS. SHELTON: You're paying it back over 24 seven years. So right now it depends on what you cut. 25 I think the five-year equipment would be the only thing 45 1 that -- that would benefit you more to cut, just because 2 it's a pay back period of five years. But I believe 3 those are the two items that Kelly said no matter what 4 she needed those. But is that right, Kelly? 5 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, if it's going to 7 be whittled, you've got to start someplace. And that's 8 probably not the only place we need to whittle but -- 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- closer to it. I 11 thought of those right off the bat to look at. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lots of crickets in this 13 room. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. 15 MRS. LANTZ: I was watching you earlier on 16 YouTube. I'm going to be up here advocating for the 17 employees to get their five percent raise. Like 18 Commissioner Letz said, they've done their part. I've 19 cut my budget extremely. I even gave up my part-time 20 position. So I would hope that these other elected 21 officials in this room can also cut some out of their 22 budget. 23 I don't get the luxury of having a wish 24 list. And I get grant pay for a lot of stuff. But the 25 grant money is not here yet. So until it comes in, you 46 1 might need to cut some of that. So I mean, there's 2 nobody up here advocating for the employees other than 3 the Judge and Commissioner Letz. I mean, I get law 4 enforcement needs what they need. Road & Bridge has 5 done without for a long time. I was in this Court many 6 years seeing what they gave us. But I think it's on the 7 backs of the elected officials who are requesting all 8 this extra stuff to cut their budget a little bit. 9 We've done it in the past, you can do it again. Thank 10 you. 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: To add to what Dawn 12 just said, a couple years ago when we had the China 13 virus and everybody was scared and didn't know what was 14 going to happen, we asked the Department Heads and we 15 asked the Elected Officials to trim ten percent and the 16 majority of them came through like roses. 17 JUDGE KELLY: It was spectacular. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: We can go back and ask 19 again. What can they do in the next day or two to come 20 back with some kind of cuts. Well, and it's up to 21 them, but I think every -- we need them -- their 22 involvement again. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. But at the 24 same time, there are things that you're kicking the can 25 down the road and it's going to make it worse and worse 47 1 and worse. Security systems. IT expenditures. Without 2 those, we start -- I mean, you can't delay some of that 3 stuff. And those are big ticket items. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: And I'm not saying it 5 has to be ten percent. I'm just saying let them have 6 another look at it -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- understanding the 9 difficulty of this inflated budget. What can they bring 10 to the table that might help us -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- because we need -- 13 we need to do this collectively. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And if we can get that 15 via e-mail or whatever promptly, it would sure help. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those would go straight 17 to the Auditor. In my opinion. 18 MRS. SHELTON: So just a couple of points 19 here. Most of the departments that took the ten percent 20 out did not receive that same ten percent back. So 21 you're asking us to cut more. There's a lot of 22 departments that do not put their wish list, such as 23 District Clerk just said, in their budget for the next 24 year. And so if you look, overall if you go back and 25 look at the first -- when we were doing the departmental 48 1 workshops, most of those increases were below $5,000.00 2 I would even say. So -- so you're asking to cut 5,000. 3 I know you've got departments such as the Tax Assessor's 4 office that is seasonal. So with elections coming up 5 next year, he is -- his budget has to increase because 6 his postage is increasing. So there's a lot of 7 departments that are running on the minimum that they 8 feel like they can get by with right now. 9 My second point is it was the District 10 Clerk's intention to cut out her part-time person. And 11 she told me to cut it out. But it is still in the 12 budget right now. So just -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: Well, cut it out. 14 MRS. LANTZ: I said cut it out. 15 MRS. SHELTON: She told me. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Anybody who's willing 17 to make a concession should be -- 18 JUDGE KELLY: And I'm -- I'm not -- 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- accepted. 20 JUDGE KELLY: -- making light of any of 21 this. 22 MRS. LANTZ: I need the person, but you know 23 what, my people are working really hard up there to fill 24 in those gaps. So, you know, I can't force people to 25 work harder than they already do. But they're willing 49 1 to do it for a five percent increase. And that's saving 2 the County a lot of money. 3 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, I don't think 4 anybody was saying your department or any department in 5 the County was not working hard. That's the reason that 6 five percent is in there. 7 Going back to what Tanya said, and one thing 8 that happened in our workshop, you know, and I'll use 9 the Tax Assessor as an example. All the extra postage, 10 the cost, every department has added cost. Especially 11 his. All the mailings that go out. Talking about extra 12 roof tops, that's extra postage. And it's increasing, 13 yeah, and -- yeah, it's not that much for some of the 14 other offices but every one of them came in and said 15 they had -- needing more postage. Office supplies have 16 increased. 17 Again, we're not buying at 2019 prices. All 18 this stuff is increasing just to do their day-to-day 19 functions. So it all contributes. Maybe not that much 20 each one, but it's all contributing where we're at now. 21 And we all knew, well, that's -- it was justified what 22 they were asking for, for that kind of stuff. 23 JUDGE KELLY: I think the real questions 24 right now -- and -- and by the way, the Auditor's Office 25 is the one that's in the biggest spot, and I recognize 50 1 that. They've gotta get a budget finalized that we can 2 get posted in the newspaper and go through all of the 3 legal requirements and they're still trying to -- 4 working with numbers that they got back from the last 5 workshop. And -- and -- and these numbers change. All 6 that does is just multiply the work that they have to 7 do. And it's -- it's unfair. And I -- I recognize 8 that. I'm sorry. 9 But we have a crisis here and I don't know 10 what to do about it. We can -- if we adjourn, then we 11 have to repost and it's 72 hours before we can do 12 anything. If we recess, we can come back, what, within 13 24 hours? 14 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes, sir. And -- and I'm 15 not going to be here in the morning by the way. I've 16 got a funeral. 17 But we can have discussions if -- if that's 18 what you want to do. And when we come back from that 19 recess, can we recess again? 20 MRS. STEBBINS: Wouldn't do that. 21 JUDGE KELLY: No? One recess? Well, I'm 22 asking. But I think -- I think if we're willing to turn 23 this thing upside down, is that something -- because if 24 we adjourn today, we're pretty much locked into the 62 25 and a half million dollar budget. 51 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, we can still post 2 for a meeting on Thursday and have another -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: We can. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would -- 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: That would be my 6 recommendation, at least. I don't mind recessing and 7 coming back at it this afternoon or -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: We've gotta post -- post on 9 Thursday? 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm kinda thinking 11 let's do both, just so we've got flexibility. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think the -- 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: It's just not going to 14 be easy. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will you be available 16 tomorrow afternoon? 17 JUDGE KELLY: No. I mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Yeah, I mean -- I 19 was -- if you were going to being back in the afternoon 20 we could -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: No. Funeral's at 10:00 and 22 I'm the pall bearer and then the internment -- it'll be 23 for hours. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MRS. SHELTON: I'm trying to take a look at 52 1 this from another direction. What amount would make it 2 okay? How much are we looking that needs to be cut? 3 You gotta start with what the goal is. I mean, if 4 you're just nickel-and-diming all of the departments, 5 you're not going to get very far. Do you have a target 6 dollar amount in the expenditures that you're looking to 7 cut? 8 (Pause.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the -- 10 you know, one of the things that the Judge mentioned, 11 that's why I don't know how much this would go, but if 12 you go with the upper level managers and Sheriff and 13 Road & Bridge and trim that back, how much does that 14 gain? A hundred thousand? 200,000? 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'm guessing -- we're 16 probably looking anywhere from maybe a half to a million 17 in total of what we might be able to find on multiple 18 things. 19 MRS. SHELTON: So -- so with that in mind, 20 just like breaking news from this weekend's worksheet, 21 the increases that where requested by Road & Bridge can 22 all be covered under ARPA right now, because they're 23 less than -- they're ten percent or less. And we did 24 not include the five percent wage adjustment because 25 that was given to everyone. And so the upper management 53 1 in Road & Bridge received five percent extra, and that 2 would be the Road Administrator and the Assistant Road 3 Administrator. Everyone else received the ten percent. 4 So again, all of that is ARPA funds. It -- it would 5 affect us when ARPA is gone. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's a good point. 7 MRS. SHELTON: And in looking at the 8 Sheriff's Office at the same time, they're limited to 9 ten percent, and their increase is greater than ten 10 percent. So we've gone in and taken a look and I've got 11 a meeting with both the Sheriff and the County Attorney 12 after this to say, looking at Senate Bill 22, how -- how 13 does that work? Because dispatchers are not eligible 14 for Senate Bill 22. And so that money -- anything over 15 ten percent would have to go back to the general fund. 16 Now, it's really, really loose, my 17 calculations this weekend, because I don't know their 18 job descriptions, and which -- which ones are eligible 19 based on the patrol deputies and those that have patrol 20 in theirs. Again, that's why I'm meeting with the 21 Sheriff. But anything over the ten percent would have 22 to be taken care of by either Senate Bill 22 or in the 23 general fund. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: So, Tanya, is -- is SB 25 22 factored into this -- these budget numbers right now? 54 1 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. Yes, it is. 2 MRS. SHELTON: It is not. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's why -- 4 MRS. SHELTON: Because the numbers that 5 y'all are looking at did not include the 500,000 -- 6 JUDGE KELLY: Oh. 7 MRS. SHELTON: -- from Senate Bill 22. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: So right there that's 9 500,000. That's good. 10 MRS. SHELTON: If you -- well, it's good and 11 it's not. It brings another question up. So again, 12 that's why I'm meeting with the Sheriff's Office. If 13 you look at TAC's latest guidance -- if you'll give me 14 just a minute. If you -- so it talks about when we can 15 submit. We can't submit for Senate Bill 22 until 16 January of '24. 17 And so looking at that, it's up to the 18 County whether to adjust law enforcement salaries at the 19 start of its particular fiscal year or wait until the 20 grant funds are awarded to the County to adjust salary. 21 So they give us that option. And two 22 paragraphs later, they say that they're currently 23 developing the program rules. And in some instances, 24 the rules will change as a result of public comment. 25 And the proposed rules for public comment will not be 55 1 published until September of '23. So if we give them -- 2 and for some reason it's not part of it, then the County 3 would -- it would be coming out of general fund. 4 So the other issue -- there's two issues 5 that this causes. When are you going to give them? You 6 know, if -- if you could still give the full amount that 7 had been requested, and just for kicks say it's 12 8 hundred dollars, a hundred dollars a month, you could 9 say that it's going to be part of their salary, but 10 until that -- we get Senate Bill 22 in, you wouldn't be 11 receiving that 100 dollars a month but you would still 12 get the 12 hundred dollars after we receive the grant. 13 So it's going to skew your salary some. 14 Again, I don't know how that's going to work 15 in INCODE, which is the second part. That's the other 16 issue. But long story of saying no, the 500,000 has not 17 been included in the numbers you're looking at. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Everything -- it was included 19 in some of those schedules that we were -- 20 MRS. SHELTON: It was included in -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: -- evaluating. 22 MRS. SHELTON: -- the schedules. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: But not in these 24 numbers. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think we need to go 56 1 ahead and -- 2 MRS. SHELTON: And it was part of the 3 decreases that came about in between the different looks 4 of the summaries that y'all have looked at. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I tend to agree with 6 Commissioner Paces, that those funds will come, so the 7 number's already at 500,000 better. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I think we've known 9 all along it was going to come later. Just at one point 10 we discussed, I think, Tanya, that -- or Sheriff, one, 11 we didn't know how it was going to come. If it was 12 going to come in a lump payment or -- or spread out. 13 MRS. SHELTON: They said they're going to 14 pay annually. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Okay. 16 MRS. SHELTON: It's really easier for the 17 Comptroller's Office to pay annually, which they do with 18 other supplements that we receive. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, another option 20 that would help some is to -- the Sheriff probably won't 21 like this, but to phase the increases, do October 1 22 increase, do a January 1 increase, and then do a -- you 23 know, if necessary, an -- April 1 do another increase. 24 I mean, we could phase those increases. Get them where 25 they need to be, and that will save. 57 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Quarterly. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quarterly. Or do it, 3 you know, I'd -- probably be easier if we do that, do it 4 October 1 and January 1, but -- 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, we need to look 6 at it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that would say -- 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Hard to say what that's 9 going to save us. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Again, don't know 11 how much that's going to save. It's deferring. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Does that keep us 13 short-handed then for that time frame? 14 MRS. SHELTON: So really -- 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: For the adjustment? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Mrs. Shelton. 17 MRS. SHELTON: Uh-huh. Really roughly, 18 there's about 350,000 right now that -- at the rate that 19 has been discussed, that would not be -- that would be 20 hitting the general fund. Some of that would be offset 21 by some of the special requests in the new hires can be 22 put in the ARPA, and so we pulled that back and have got 23 that in a column in a worksheet somewhere else. So 24 again, we're talking 350,000 of that on general fund, 25 off the top of my head right now. 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But my -- I don't like 2 the budget, but I'm willing to vote for the budget. 3 Because I don't see where we're really going to cut a 4 lot. And if we don't, we're just going to make it worse 5 the following year. I'm just tossing out ideas because 6 this is going to take three votes to get that budget 7 through. 8 And the Judge says he's not voting for it. 9 So that means two out of the other three need to so that 10 -- you know, I'll just go on the record saying that I 11 don't like the current budget, but I would vote for it 12 because I think that not voting for the budget is going 13 to hurt us more than going down it next year. It's just 14 going to get worse and worse every year. 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. And I still 16 think we need to look at things that we can trim. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. I'm -- I'm always 18 looking for to trim. But if we can't, I can deal with 19 this budget. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Kelly? 21 MS. HOFFER: I know what I offered to the 22 Court awhile back, probably the first workshop, of 23 freezing three positions, that we would not hire for 24 them. And I know you all were kind of, like, hate to do 25 that to you, but I mean that offer would stand. 59 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I forgot about that. 2 MS. HOFFER: So we're down nine. And we 3 were -- 4 JUDGE KELLY: But that was -- 5 MS. HOFFER: -- down eight and now we're 6 down nine. Somebody left. So that would be a third of 7 what we're short. But we would do it. 8 JUDGE KELLY: And I appreciate that because 9 you were finding the way to fund the incentives that you 10 wanted to pay. 11 MS. HOFFER: And the Court said -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: It didn't change your overall 13 budget to do that. 14 MS. HOFFER: Correct. I don't want to lose 15 the positions, those three, but if -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. And we don't want you 17 to do that either. 18 MS. HOFFER: -- the Court doesn't want to 19 fund them then, you know, I know the State has done 20 hiring freezes on things. And you say one-year hiring 21 freeze on these three positions or two, three years? I 22 mean, but I'm still willing to do that. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Well, thank you. Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And the public needs 25 to recognize that Road & Bridge is one of our main 60 1 concerns. And like I said earlier, our department heads 2 go -- bend over backwards to help us. And Kelly's a 3 good example of that. And I appreciate it. 4 JUDGE KELLY: So I think the real -- the 5 only thing that we can decide today is do we come back 6 and talk about this again tomorrow or do we come back 7 and talk about it on Thursday? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, I'm good. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Either one or both. 10 I'm good. This is more important stuff. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Well, you're going to be 12 squeezed the most, Mrs. Shelton. 13 MRS. SHELTON: I'm going home. Y'all tell 14 me when to recess. Because I can't do anything until I 15 get answers, is kind of where I'm at. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I do think we need 18 to tell -- as we're looking at things, ask the Auditor 19 to give us, you know, some scenarios. 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, let's build the 21 500 in and let's take Kelly up on her offer and if 22 there's anything else that we're aware of, let's come 23 back with those numbers. 24 MRS. SHELTON: Okay. So just so I can make 25 sure that I'm understanding, we're taking the District 61 1 Clerk part-time help out, which is being funded by ARPA 2 right now in the newest scenario, and then we're going 3 to -- when you said we're going to freeze the Road & 4 Bridge, right now the amounts are still in the budget so 5 we're zeroing out the budget for those three positions. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 7 MS. HOFFER: But I would, if possible, like 8 for those positions still to remain on the position -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 10 MS. HOFFER: -- schedule. They just won't 11 be funded for however long the Court feels that they 12 need to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But again, that's 14 something that we're kicking the can down the road 15 because -- 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: You're going to likely 17 have difficulty getting the six anyway. 18 MS. HOFFER: I kind of feel that way at 19 least for probably a year. But kind of like what the 20 Judge has said, we're kinda behind on the east and the 21 west and, you know, maybe the next two or three years 22 things will -- the dust will finally settle and things 23 will start to, you know, start to rise. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I know. 25 MS. HOFFER: I mean, I don't think any of us 62 1 have the answer but -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: No. 3 MS. HOFFER: -- I'd be happy having six more 4 people on staff. I'd be ecstatic if -- with six, I 5 would be really happy. But it's hard. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. 7 MS. HOFFER: And it's hot out. And it's 8 just -- it is hard. But I'd be willing to give that 9 money up for those and if the Court wants to set a term 10 on it, that's fine, too. Because that's -- originally 11 was our offer. 12 MRS. SHELTON: Okay. And the third thing? 13 Y'all had three suggestions. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We're going to put 15 that 500,000 in, aren't we? 16 MRS. SHELTON: It shows the 500,000 coming 17 in. And so that will be neutral because I don't have 18 the 500,000 expense showing. So, so far we've cut out 19 basically a part-time position and three full-time 20 positions. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Add in the 500? 22 MRS. SHELTON: I'm sorry? 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Add in the 500 in terms 24 of revenue and -- 25 MRS. SHELTON: But then you're taking it 63 1 back out for the expense -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, okay. But -- 3 MRS. SHELTON: -- so it's neutral. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 5 MRS. SHELTON: So roughly, those positions, 6 Kelly or Rosa, they're about 40,000, 45? 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm not sure I 8 understand that. 9 MRS. SHELTON: So maybe that -- that's less 10 than 200,000. Dawn's position would not have insurance 11 and any other benefits with it. Kelly's three positions 12 would. So that's real rough at using 200,000. 13 So again, how much more should we be looking 14 at? Because unless you start putting other stuff back 15 on, that's really going to affect the general fund. 16 We're shifting. The ARPA is -- taking out the ARPA, the 17 part-time position, is -- is not going to have any 18 bearing on property taxes or the fund balance. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Unless we applied it 20 somewhere else. 21 MRS. SHELTON: I'm sorry? 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Unless we applied it 23 somewhere else. 24 MRS. SHELTON: And applied it somewhere 25 else? 64 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: The ARPA money for 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think she's applying 4 it everywhere she can. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Oh, okay. I gotcha. 6 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 7 JUDGE KELLY: It's just a question of which 8 one it applies to. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 10 MRS. SHELTON: And how much do you want to 11 cut? It still comes back down to that. 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. We're between a 13 rock and a hard place. 14 MRS. SHELTON: I mean, I can bring back 15 every department to y'all and we can relook at every 16 department if that's what you want to do, but we won't 17 have time to recess that much. 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I got a question for 19 the County Attorney. 20 MRS. STEBBINS: What have you got? 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: If we recess and came 22 back and discussed tomorrow, could we also schedule a 23 Thursday meeting and then cancel it if we needed to? 24 MRS. STEBBINS: If you have time for -- to 25 schedule a Thursday meeting, you can. 65 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We do. 2 MRS. STEBBINS: But what I -- I felt like I 3 heard Tanya say that that's not enough time for her. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is that correct? I 5 know you're stressed. 6 MRS. SHELTON: It depends on the changes 7 that you're going to make. If you're talking -- if 8 you're dealing with payroll, which that is the majority 9 of what our budget is, it is not going to be enough 10 time. If you're not, then we might could, but again, 11 we're not being able to finish what we need right now, 12 because we still need time to finish what we've 13 discussed on the 31st. And we need answers so we can 14 give to Bob, so that we can come back with rates. 15 Again, just to give me one more second, 16 please. On the budget that was shown on the 31st, if 17 you look at it, right now the fund balance with debt 18 service, Road & Bridge, and general fund is about 23.94 19 percent. The goal is 25 percent. We need $483,000 to 20 get there. 21 Now, we're going to be adding a little bit 22 more than that due to what Senate Bill 22 will and will 23 not approve. So if you say, you know, whatever that 24 number ends up being, it will be less than a million 25 dollars to get there. That sounds a lot more than the 66 1 three hundred -- the four hundred thousand. 2 If you look at all of our funds and you take 3 out the effect of your capital project funds, and you 4 take out the ARPA, you're down -- you've got a fund 5 balance of 25.24 percent. So you're over the 25 percent 6 there. Are we spending fund balance? Yes, we're 7 spending fund balance. If you leave in everything is 8 where it starts looking really bad in saying that we 9 need 3.3 million. So what is the goal? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your -- all those 11 estimates assume a hundred -- spending a hundred percent 12 of expenditures? 13 MRS. SHELTON: One hundred percent of what? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expenditures. 15 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And in 27 years we have 17 never spent a hundred percent of our expenditures and 18 that is why we generally go into the budget year with a 19 deficit budget and end up with a surplus at the end of 20 the year of several million. I mean, it could be 21 anywhere -- it's been as bad as probably six or seven 22 hundred thousand, and then on the other side three 23 million as I recall. 24 So our fund balance will probably, you know, 25 in all likelihood based on historical be where it should 67 1 be at the end of the next budget year. Now, the problem 2 comes the next year. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're taking care of 5 a lot of things this year, like Road & Bridge anyway. 6 So -- 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I hate to say it, 8 because I'm a big supporter of our Sheriff's Department, 9 but Sheriff Leitha, you have the biggest budget. Would 10 you please take another look at that, and see what you 11 can live without and come back to us? Or tell me now, I 12 can't. 13 SHERIFF LEITHA: No, sir, I can't. No. And 14 I haven't brought up the lights, I'll wait. As we know, 15 we don't know what's going to happen with Ingram PD. We 16 go week by week, right? I've submitted a request to the 17 Judge for four deputies and an investigator. Since 18 we've been meeting, I'm fixing to lose a lieutenant and 19 a sergeant who was probably going to be my next captain, 20 in the morning. 21 And next to that, I was served by a paper, a 22 letter from the City of Kerrville. I've been discussing 23 that with the County Attorney. We'll probably have to 24 have Executive Session on that. I might need two to 25 four more deputies on that. So no, sir, I can't. 68 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: I guess I was looking 2 more at, you know, the market adjustment numbers, not -- 3 not positions. 4 SHERIFF LEITHA: So what you gotta realize, 5 all of y'all is, you know, we're already behind. Right? 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 7 SHERIFF LEITHA: So these other counties are 8 moving forward without you. You know, as a Sheriff, I 9 have to do what I think. If y'all don't want to pass 10 it, you don't pass it. But I have to do what's -- what 11 I think is right for the Sheriff's Office. I can't tell 12 you like Dawn said, I've never had -- nobody said they 13 wouldn't support us, okay. I have to do what I think is 14 necessary to keep this County safe and that's why I'm 15 having this request. 16 Now, I know we say recruit and retention. 17 What this has always been -- I mean, this is a first 18 responder pay package, okay. To get these guys paid 19 what they need. I have up to 12 positions. I'm losing 20 a senior corporal and a senior sergeant to another place 21 for more money. No matter whether we get the increase 22 or not. Okay. And then when you talk about staggering 23 this, I mean, do you know what that would do to my 24 office if a subordinate was paid more than a supervisor? 25 That's -- that's not good business and that -- that's 69 1 not going to work. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Sheriff, answer 3 me this. If we go ahead and fund you the -- what you're 4 asking for, how many of those positions do you think 5 you'll fill within the first six months? 6 SHERIFF LEITHA: All of them. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: All of them. 8 SHERIFF LEITHA: All of them. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: That's what I wanted. 10 SHERIFF LEITHA: That's not what you want to 11 hear, I know. But yeah, I got people waiting now. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Anything else to discuss 14 today? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we recessing? 16 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I'm asking. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: So where are we? Are 18 we going to meet on Thursday or tomorrow or what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean I -- I can 20 meet anytime. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I can't. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to figure out 23 the purpose of that meeting. Because what are we going 24 to do that we haven't discussed today? 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Exactly. 70 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just saying that 2 we're going to look at it and meet, I mean, seems 3 pointless. As I said, I don't like it. I will vote for 4 the current budget. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: So I tend to think we 6 should post for a meeting and if we decide not to have 7 it then -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. I have no 9 problem with it. 10 MRS. STEBBINS: Y'all, as an elected 11 official and my budget and my department, most -- y'all 12 know, most of it is for my people. And I went with the 13 Judge's budget recommendation, and my request to you 14 guys, and postage goes up, our books go up, it's the 15 legislative year, where there will be changes in the 16 rules, we're all going to need new books. I can't 17 imagine that many other elected officials can come to 18 y'all and cut any more out of our budget besides 19 personnel costs. 20 And so, I can go back and cut a hundred 21 dollars out of postage maybe, but then I don't get -- 22 what -- what if I'm out of postage? I'll just be asking 23 y'all for it somewhere else. 24 So I imagine that's where we're all sitting 25 in our departments and in our offices. So if you recess 71 1 for tomorrow or come back on Thursday, I don't know how 2 I can come back and say here, take this out and expect 3 to run efficiently. Except people. And then I really 4 won't be running efficiently. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Inflation has hit us 6 all. Its caught up with us. Everything costs more. 7 Our constituents realize that too. They have trouble 8 with their home budgets. Going to the grocery store. 9 Fueling up with gas, whatever. I think -- this is all 10 due to Washington, in my opinion. And we're down here 11 on the bottom run and having to make choices. And, you 12 know, when the -- with new prices. And the price is 13 what drives everything. 14 That's how the Sheriff's Department is. You 15 know, I remember him telling me he has -- that Gillespie 16 County had somebody that lived here in Kerr County and 17 he asked me why he wasn't with him and he said five 18 dollars an hour. Well, that's the bottom line to 19 people. Our recruitment and retention. Each and every 20 one of these department heads in here have the same 21 problems. And that's why we went with salary increases, 22 the COLA and what have you, because people are all 23 hurting. As well as our taxpayers. 24 And I'm not -- I'm sympathetic there too. 25 But we haven't raised taxes. We've cut the tax rate the 72 1 last three years. Kept it the same the first year the 2 Judge and I were in office. Unfortunately, something 3 has to give this year I'm afraid. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, I don't want to 5 rain on the parade but, you know, in terms of Judge 6 Kelly's optimism, I probably don't quite share the view 7 to that extent. Just because I point out this drought 8 is just about as bad as we saw back in 2011. And it's 9 fixing to get a lot worse. And I think as -- as word 10 gets out, you know, Headwaters Groundwater Conservation 11 District has already changed its rules with respect to 12 development. New subdivisions, so forth. I think it 13 will put a stifle on development to a certain degree. 14 Because water is our most critical resource and, you 15 know, how much is anybody's land worth if you're out of 16 water. 17 And I think you're going to see some moves 18 here in the very near future that, you know, bring it to 19 the public's attention just how bad it is. And how the 20 Guadalupe River is not flowing anymore. The City of 21 Kerrville's drawing from ground water. It's going to 22 get real bad. So I hope anybody listening keeps that in 23 mind to at least conserve all you can. 24 But, again, I guess I kinda see it as going 25 to be a -- putting a little bit of a damper on 73 1 development, particularly residential type development 2 in the shorter term. Maybe I'm wrong. You know, it's a 3 serious problem. 4 JUDGE KELLY: Well, that only amplifies what 5 we're struggling with today. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: I know it. I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we go ahead 8 and just post a meeting or -- I mean recess and do it -- 9 you know, we can come in here and look at each other two 10 more times. Because I don't see that we'll really 11 accomplish much, but I'm willing to do it. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: I don't know. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So you want to recess for 14 tomorrow? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 JUDGE KELLY: And you'll provide -- so we 17 stand in recess until tomorrow morning at 9:00? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At 10:00. It's gotta be 19 10:30. 20 MRS. GRINSTEAD: It's gotta be after -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, no. We can do it -- 22 no, it's -- 23 JUDGE KELLY: We'll be in recess until 9:00 24 o'clock in the morning. 25 (Overnight recess.) 74 1 (Commissioners' Court reconvenes August 8, 2 2023.) 3 (Judge Kelly and Commissioner Belew absent.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Call to 5 order the Commissioners' Court meeting. It is a 6 continuation from the recess of yesterday's meeting. 7 Anyway, one item to discuss. 1.5 8 update/discussion regarding the current status of the 9 FY 2023-2024 Proposed Budget. 10 And I guess we're looking at two things. 11 Where we can increase revenue or decrease expenditures. 12 On the revenue side, the obvious is raising 13 taxes. The other thing that Tanya mentioned is that 14 the -- housing inmates, we could raise that fee a little 15 bit, which brings in a lot of revenue. Out-of-county 16 inmates. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But I think we just 18 went from 50 to 65, didn't we? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, this -- but 20 there's a -- you know, I don't know what the rate is 21 there for -- the market rate, we don't want to get too 22 high. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- but at the same 25 time, that's you know a revenue thing. And there's a 75 1 little bit of flood control stuff that we could probably 2 knock out. But we're -- none of these are going to move 3 the budget that I see. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: It wouldn't impact it 5 a lot. And, you know, my -- my thoughts on this is, you 6 know, we've had -- since I've been on the Court, this is 7 my fifth budget. The first year we kept the rates the 8 same -- and Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, the same tax 9 rate. The first -- you know, four years ago. 10 The last three years it's been the no new 11 revenue rate. And then you throw in this inflation, 12 there's no way you can keep on going with the no new 13 revenue rate. No matter what you do. And that's -- 14 everybody realizes that, I think. We're on the bottom 15 run on the ladder. We're down here. This is trickling 16 down from Washington, you know. 17 I told several people this morning, a few 18 years ago we were exporting oil. Now we're buying it 19 from enemies and stuff. That drives everything. Look 20 at Road & Bridge. You know, I mentioned the Sheriff 21 yesterday. He can tell us about how many gallons of 22 fuel he uses in a year but he doesn't know what it's 23 going to cost. Kelly doesn't either. And that just 24 drives everything. So it's a tough one. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes, it is. 76 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And we're between a 2 rock and a hard place. So that's where we're at. No 3 way around it. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: I wish I had a magic 5 wand or some wonderful solution, but I don't really -- I 6 understand exactly what you're saying and I accept our 7 taxes are going to go up. And certainly they should, 8 because the voters spoke on the Animal Control Shelter. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: So for whatever that 11 is, I'm not sure what that carve out is. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six cents. I mean .06. 13 MR. REEVES: .006. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: .006. 15 MR. REEVES: Just over half a penny. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, I think 17 that the -- you know, the facts are we've done our best 18 to keep taxes as low as possible, which -- 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We have. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- is good. I think we 21 all want that. But you get to a point sometimes you've 22 just got to raise taxes. And to me, somewhere in the 23 two to three cent range makes sense. Because a lot of 24 it is, you know, we're going to get hit really bad next 25 year if we don't do it. I mean, so -- that's just kind 77 1 of where I am and I just don't see that we can cut a 2 whole lot out of here. I think we're -- at least the 3 three here today are pretty committed on law enforcement 4 increases and the Road & Bridge deal. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Definitely 6 committed on both of those. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Those are our prime 9 functions, prime responsibilities. If we fail to 10 deliver law and order or keep our roads in shape then -- 11 why are we here? 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes, to the hearing by 13 saying otherwise. It's out there. Out public, they 14 realize they -- they dial 9-1-1, they want somebody to 15 show up. They don't want our Sheriff's Department 16 depleted because he can't fill open spots. And that's 17 understandable. 18 Road & Bridge. I -- I told Kelly, her and 19 her department make us look good over the years. But 20 they're stretched awful thin now. And -- and they need 21 help. They need help. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Kelly made some good 23 concessions yesterday. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Without a doubt. 25 MRS. HOFFER: Well, I have something. I 78 1 went back and re-looked at our budget. And I got three 2 copies for you. You can kinda see. This would be 3 probably the simplest way to go. This is out of our 4 special projects that a long time ago, I think Bob 5 Reeves and Jonathan, I think came up with this. For 6 total reconstruction, when you negotiate those, it is so 7 time consuming and your staff gets stuck on one road 8 for, like, two months or -- you can move along on itself 9 if it isn't a total reconstruction. 10 We've had -- we have two different vendors 11 for two different projects. And one vendor we've used 12 before, they did Greenwood Forest. Really, really good 13 construction company. But we had a new one that we 14 didn't know anything about. They were nice enough group 15 of people, but we had a lot of problems with what they 16 did. And when we went in there to tidy it up, and make 17 it the way we needed it to do the chipseal, we were on 18 that road for three weeks. That's not the intention. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: That was Skyline Drive 20 you're referring to, right? 21 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: And basically, you -- 23 you reconstructed the reconstructed road? 24 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: And I was amazed at 79 1 that. 2 MS. HOFFER: So this is a really important 3 line item. And -- and we want to continue with it, 4 because it does make a difference. I think since we 5 started doing this, I think we've done about 20 miles of 6 reconstruction. But for us to have to go in behind a 7 contractor, the possibility of that, it just kills us on 8 all the other roads that are being proposed for 9 chipseal. 10 So we would like to offer this amount back 11 to the Court. Still leave the line item because we 12 will -- following the budget year, we're going to fill 13 it with this amount. But when we do it for this year, 14 and it's a pretty sizeable amount of money that we're 15 willing to give back that amount. And then the option 16 of freezing those three positions. So -- I just kinda 17 wanted to let you guys know that we were willing to do 18 that. 19 On the second page, we're not really in -- 20 too much in charge of this. And I overheard the Auditor 21 say yeah, that that million dollars was taken out for 22 that drainage project on our end. And we went into 23 Incode yesterday, it still was showing a little over a 24 million dollars. But I heard Tanya saying that I think 25 all that got put back in there was like 250,000? 80 1 MRS. SHELTON: No, not even that much. 2 MS. HOFFER: Okay. 3 MRS. SHELTON: And that's on the 4 Commissioners. You wouldn't -- I don't know that you 5 would have access to it. And the Department got frozen 6 the minute y'all's time went up. 7 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. So that second page 8 is -- now, the bottom one is the one that I just 9 discussed before the meeting, about Goat Creek cutoff 10 and the drainage. So that could be another one. Like I 11 said, don't want it to go away, but if you wanted to 12 zero that one. And then the special projects one that 13 is road reconstruction, we would be willing to give that 14 money back for this year. Like I said, I know it 15 doesn't cover the total but it's -- 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Every little bit helps. 17 MS. HOFFER: -- a pretty sizeable amount of 18 money that -- that I think we all -- we all agreed that 19 Road & Bridge yesterday when I went back, that this 20 wouldn't -- this wouldn't put anybody in a bad 21 situation, but the following year we would need to come 22 back and put money in it. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: And Kelly, this won't 24 have any impact on your normal chipseal program? 25 MS. HOFFER: No. 81 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: I mean, you've got a 2 lot on your board there in your conference room and -- 3 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. No, that -- those are 4 all emulsions and aggregates. And those are separate 5 line items that you will not touch. Because that is -- 6 that is our chipseal program. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I'd defer to the 8 other gentlemen because it would be real easy for me to 9 say I accept this because I just got two of my roads 10 reconstructed and that's all that was in the program for 11 this year. 12 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: And you guys did a 14 fantastic job. So thank you very much. 15 MS. HOFFER: Uh-huh. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: But I -- I do think 17 that they probably need to just stay focused on the 18 standard chipseal maintenance work and we can probably 19 kick this down the road for a year. 20 MS. HOFFER: And like I said, then next year 21 we go back to this. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, that's true too. 23 And they're not going to get the chipseal work done on 24 the long list. We know that. 25 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. But this special project 82 1 that, like I said, I think it was when Bob was a 2 Commissioner and Jonathan, they had come over and said 3 hey, we've got an idea that may help, and it has been a 4 great thing. I mean, we've accomplished a lot. 5 But I think as short-staffed as we are, I'm 6 trying to keep up with what our contractor is doing over 7 there and we're trying to get other roads ready, that 8 maybe the break will be good for the one year and then 9 we go right back into it. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 11 MS. HOFFER: But totally up to you but 12 that's what I have to -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So those two are for -- 14 are 527,000. 15 MS. HOFFER: Yep. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: And it all helps. 17 MRS. SHELTON: There's one more also, if you 18 all want to hear it? 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can tell the Judge 21 when he's not here we cut things. 22 MRS. SHELTON: Reagan sent an email 23 yesterday and said that based on yesterday's court 24 meeting that he could cut the 40,000 for site clean up 25 down to $7,000. And so he would put -- we could pull 83 1 out 33,000 on site clean up. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that Environmental 3 Health, or is that Reagan? 4 MRS. SHELTON: It's -- yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said Reagan? 6 MRS. SHELTON: Reagan. Yeah. It's the site 7 clean up. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, I hate to do 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, he -- 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: We did one real 13 successful program down in Center Point. I don't know 14 if that was last year or the year before even, but -- 15 and the idea was then to, you know, recoup the 16 expenditures from the ultimate -- you know, put a lien 17 on the property. And I believe it was going to be sold. 18 Because, you know, it's in the arrears for I don't know 19 how many years on taxes. So I would like to keep some 20 seed money to keep doing those projects. Because, trust 21 me, there's plenty more that should be done. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: But I don't know. Can 24 you cut 20,000 of it and leave 20? 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: There's 40 in there 84 1 right now? 2 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, all depends on 4 the project, you know. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Twenty doesn't go very 7 far these days, but -- 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- it's better than 10 nothing. And I don't know how that works if we ever get 11 our money back from the sale of a property. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We should. I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: Can we apply that to 14 doing more, is kind of the question. Or does it just 15 come into the general funds? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It goes into the general 17 fund. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Anything else? 19 MRS. SHELTON: Judge, can I just clarify one 20 more thing? So if -- if -- I just want to clarify that 21 what I think I heard was what I heard. So the 500,000 22 for Senate Bill 22 for the Sheriff's Office is going 23 back into general fund. We're not holding the rate. 24 We're not holding the payment of the raises that were 25 requested and everyone realizes that we still run a risk 85 1 that it -- it may not be funded -- 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes. 3 MRS. SHELTON: -- or we may have something 4 in there and it changes, and somebody getting a raise, 5 we might have to switch money around at that point. 6 Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We understand that. 8 MRS. SHELTON: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I'd like to do 10 that. Can I ask, what -- what about the -- you know, in 11 terms of SB 22 and the, what is it, the other areas 12 where we might be able to use some of that money for 13 attorneys or prosecutors? 14 MRS. STEBBINS: You know -- so -- 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Are we going to be able 16 to use any of it, is kind of my question? 17 MRS. STEBBINS: Yes. But the legislation 18 does not authorize the Commissioners' Court to reduce 19 the salaries of the prosecutors, investigators, by -- 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: We don't want to do 21 that. 22 MRS. STEBBINS: -- the amount that is added 23 to their salary. So -- I'll go to the podium. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I was wondering 25 if there's any other way we can make use of those funds. 86 1 MRS. STEBBINS: So for the prosecutors, each 2 of the prosecutors' offices gets to apply for the grant. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Uh-huh. 4 MRS. STEBBINS: But it can only be used for 5 a very limited purpose. For example, for my office it 6 can only be used for my assistant prosecutors and my 7 investigator. I could add a victims coordinator in 8 there, but we already have one that is a grant funded 9 position. So when it does -- when I do make application 10 in January, it can only be used for salaries for those 11 purposes. I can't use it -- like the Sheriff's 12 Department can use it for -- for ammunition, vehicles, 13 things like that after that salary is made for their 14 vote. But we weren't given that same permission in 15 ours. So -- so -- 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You didn't have the 17 leeway. 18 MRS. STEBBINS: Pardon? 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: You didn't have the 20 leeway to -- 21 MRS. STEBBINS: That's right. So I -- I 22 couldn't look at our budget and -- 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: I understand. 24 MRS. STEBBINS: -- plan to use it for those 25 things. Which I -- I would have been glad to because 87 1 it's a significant amount of money. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: If there's any creative 3 way that we could capture more of those funds, I'm all 4 for it. But I understand the difficulty. 5 MRS. STEBBINS: It's real limited. And I'll 6 show you guys that after January, once it gets funded on 7 our end and I'll ask the Court to create a budget for 8 it. But if you have any questions in the meantime, I'll 9 be glad to visit. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Let me ask you 11 this, Sheriff. Have we factored in Lone Star funding? 12 Additional Lone Star funding? Is that part of our 13 budget or not really? 14 SHERIFF LEITHA: The idea is but it 15 specifically has to be used for that. Operation Lone 16 Star. That's real strict with that. And also Stone 17 Garden. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. But is it in the 19 budget, I guess? 20 MRS. SHELTON: No, because we don't have the 21 grant. 22 SHERIFF LEITHA: We haven't received it yet. 23 MRS. SHELTON: And the history behind that 24 is last year I think we asked for a whole lot more than 25 what was funded. 88 1 SHERIFF LEITHA: Correct. 2 MRS. SHELTON: And -- and while we're 3 expecting more this year, we still don't know what the 4 actual funding amount will be. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there will be an 6 increased -- additional revenue hopefully. 7 SHERIFF LEITHA: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, how much are we 9 talking about? What -- what is that number that you 10 think we might get? 11 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: We put in a grant 12 application for about 1.7 million. We did a similar one 13 last year. They cut it back to six hundred and -- 14 SHERIFF LEITHA: 80. 15 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: -- sixty seven thousand, 16 mainly because they removed all the vehicles due to the 17 fact of manufacturing issues that they were having. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 19 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: We're hoping that 20 increment will be a little bit more increased because of 21 the availability of Tahoes that we put in there. And 22 we're hoping for a little bit more funding. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 24 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: But like I said, they have 25 to be used for specific use. 89 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. Sure. 2 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: They have to be used for 3 Lone Star-type operations, which is really -- 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I just wanted to 5 get a feel for the magnitude of how much we might be 6 able to receive. Because it kind of goes towards how 7 much of a reserve fund we want to have. And, you know, 8 when we start talking about raising taxes and by how 9 much, you know, if we're -- we talked yesterday about 10 how we frequently don't spend the whole budget. 11 MRS. SHELTON: But it's a reimbursement 12 grant and if we don't spend the money, we're not going 13 to get that much money back. So it's not -- you've got 14 a set amount and anything you don't spend comes back to 15 us. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I see. 17 MRS. SHELTON: We get -- they were -- they 18 did -- we requested that they start putting in indirect 19 rating and they did and I think that was about 30,000 or 20 40,000? 21 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: Yeah, so we did -- a new 22 term I learned from Tanya, de minimus. We did add that 23 in to the -- there's an operational section for 24 accounting and auditing and stuff, and we requested a 25 ten percent for that to help offset the cost of their 90 1 office. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. I mean, I guess 3 when -- 4 MRS. SHELTON: And the Treasurer's office, 5 and Heather's office, and just all the indirect 6 expenses. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 8 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: So we'll see what Lone 9 Star -- I know they tried that in the Stone Garden 10 grants. The Federal grant -- side grants and they 11 didn't award that. Because I think Junction -- Kimble 12 County, when they did their Stone Garden grant, I think 13 they only put like seven percent and they didn't award 14 it so. But it's in there. We'll see what happens. 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: So let me -- if I can 16 understand this thing. Are there things that you've 17 already put in the budget that might qualify or not 18 really? 19 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: No, we -- basically this 20 is kind of -- everything that we would purchase under 21 Lone Star is kind of a side purchase. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Sure. 23 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: It's not -- we can't use 24 the money to -- really to supplement anything that we 25 currently have in our budget. Like I can't use the 91 1 money for the Enterprise program. We can buy a Tahoe 2 with it, and fuel and operational costs for that 3 particular Tahoe for Lone Star-type activities -- 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Gotcha. 5 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: -- which really any 6 criminal interdiction related back to the border we 7 could use that for. But no, we can't use it to reduce 8 certain parts of our budget. It's kind of a side deal. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: I had to ask. 10 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: No. It's -- it's one less 11 Tahoe we might have to purchase later on under the 12 Enterprise program. And it's a -- it's paid in full. 13 So one day that is really straight revenue when we have 14 to turn that Tahoe in, because that money didn't come 15 from our general fund budget that we use for Enterprise. 16 Am I saying that correctly? 17 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 18 CAPTAIN WALDRIP: But one day that will 19 actually become revenue so -- 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm thinking we need a 21 whole bunch of Tahoes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So on Thursday, will we 23 begin to start having some tax numbers or those -- you 24 know, where we possibly need to be? 25 MRS. SHELTON: I'm not -- I will not have 92 1 them before a weekend to sit at my desk and work. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So we probably 3 don't need the meeting on Thursday. 4 MR. REEVES: As far as the rate, once you're 5 comfortable with the capital improvement type of debt 6 financing, then I can finalize the rate. As I said 7 yesterday, the no new revenue rate is calculated, but 8 that really doesn't mean anything because of the new 9 debt. One being what the voters approved in the bond 10 election, but the biggest part I have to calculate what 11 the debt payment is going to be to come up with the 12 rate, and both the Auditor and my office needs a firm 13 number, that if this is financed for this long at this 14 projected interest rate, then I can finalize our truth 15 and taxation rate. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: So we need to have that 17 discussion then. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're pretty good. I 19 mean -- well, are we good on the -- the issuing the debt 20 for the Road & Bridge and IT? 21 MRS. SHELTON: And the boat. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the boat. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: 31,000. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me it -- that 25 makes sense. It doesn't matter if it's ARPA funded, 93 1 it's okay. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. It -- it -- 3 MRS. SHELTON: For the seven years. Right? 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: It makes sense that -- 5 is there any argument to reducing a little bit and -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they reduce it -- I 7 mean, how much is that debt going to be? 8 MRS. SHELTON: The debt right now as it 9 stands is somewhere around 500,000, I believe -- or the 10 debt or the payment? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The amount. The debt. 12 MRS. SHELTON: The debt is looking at 3.335. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3.3 million? 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's with Road & 15 Bridge -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And IT. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- and IT. And the 18 boat. 19 MRS. SHELTON: And IT and the boat. That is 20 all of her list that she has. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm in favor of 22 that because the best way to get them equipment and Road 23 & Bridge needs newer equipment so -- 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Do we have any idea yet 25 on interest rates for that? 94 1 MRS. SHELTON: It was four point -- I think 2 it was 4.0 to 4.5 percent based on what you're -- you 3 know, it's scheduled to where certain amount of it will 4 be paid off monthly. The IT stuff in three years. I 5 think the boat is in that, too. And then there's a 6 couple of Kelly's items that will be paid off in five 7 years. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: So -- so -- 9 MRS. SHELTON: And the remainder would be 10 seven years. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: So the total was, what, 12 three point -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3.3 million. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: 3.3 million. So what's 15 the debt repayment in the budget for that roughly? 16 MRS. SHELTON: It is somewhere around 17 500,000. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: 500,000. 19 MRS. SHELTON: It's -- it's lumped into this 20 in your summary under 65. That's actually paying for 21 two notes there. So the total there is 910, so it's -- 22 I want to say it was a little bit more than the other 23 one. So it's somewhere around 500,000. And I can run 24 and get my schedule if y'all would prefer. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Not yet. 95 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: If I'm looking at the 2 right number -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fund 65? 4 MRS. SHELTON: Uh-huh. It's under the debt. 5 It the fourth one down or next to the bottom. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 65. 7 MRS. SHELTON: Uh-huh. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh, okay. So it's 9 included in the 913 but that includes the notes from 10 2021? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 12 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm with you. 14 MRS. SHELTON: And then the expense part of 15 it is included in capital projects. The third one down. 16 Number 16. On the bottom section. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3.33. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm good with the 20 budget. I don't see where we're going to cut 21 anything -- I appreciate the 520,000 we got here and a 22 little bit off of Reagan's. So that's 550,000 we cut 23 out. That helps. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Everything helps. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to meet 96 1 Thursday? I mean, my feeling is we need to let Tanya do 2 the numbers. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Yeah. I think 4 you're probably right, plus we need to wait and see what 5 Bob's numbers look like. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And I don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Give us some options. 8 So we can consider how much we want to chew into our 9 reserve. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: Because that's what 12 we're really talking about here. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. How much to 14 raise taxes and how much reserves. Those two items. 15 All right, if there's nothing else, we're 16 adjourned. And we don't need to meet Thursday. 17 * * * * * * 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 97 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 25th day of August, A.D. 10 2023. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2025 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25