1 1 2 3 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' COURT 4 Regular Session 5 Monday, October 23, 2023 6 9:00 a.m. 7 Commissioners' Courtroom 8 Kerr County Courthouse 9 Kerrville, Texas 78028 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: ROB KELLY, Kerr County Judge ANNE OVERBY, Commissioner Precinct 1 24 RICH PACES, Commissioner Precinct 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Precinct 3 25 DON HARRIS, Commissioner Precinct 4 2 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 *** Commissioner's Comments. 5 4 1.1 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 10 action to set salary for Anne Overby, 5 Commissioner Precinct 1, as per appointment on October 16, 2023. 6 1.2 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 11 7 action to approve bond for County Commissioner Precinct 1. 8 1.3 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 9 action on request from Kerrville Masonic Lodge No. 697 to use the courthouse grounds 10 for their 2024 Charity Car Show Fundraiser on March 30, 2024. 11 1.4 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 14 12 action regarding issue with the traffic mirror on Indian Creek. 13 1.5 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 23 14 action to approve contract with Hunt Volunteer Fire Department. 15 1.6 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 24 16 action to amend Court Order 39721 (Liaison Appointments for 2023) to update liaison 17 duties to include Commissioner Overby. 18 2.1 Budget Amendments. 30 19 2.2 Pay Bills. 31 20 2.4 Auditor Reports. 31 21 2.5 Accept Monthly Reports. 31 22 2.6 Court Orders. 33 23 3.1 Status Reports from Department Heads. 33 24 3.2 Status Reports from Elected Officials. 34 25 3.3 Status Reports from Liaison Commissioners. 35 3 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.7 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 37 action regarding paper ballots. 4 1.8 Public hearing to abandon, vacate and 47 5 discontinue Tucker Street in exchange for the dedication of a recreational easement 6 from the adjacent landowner to the City of Kerrville for the Veterans Pathway 7 Sidewalk Project, Precinct 2. 8 1.9 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 49 action regarding the acknowledgement of 9 construction completion of private roads and drainage, and the release of Letter of 10 Credit No. 922001116952 issued by Cadence Bank, Tupelo, Mississippi in the amount of 11 $23,528.56 for the said private roads and drainage associated with YO Ranch Headquarters 12 Subdivision. 13 1.10 Public Hearing for a revision of plat for 51 Kerrville Country Estates Section 2, Lots 14 35A and 35B, Plat File #22-08493. 15 1.11 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 52 action regarding a revision of plat for 16 Treasure Hills Ranch, Tracts 17R, 19A and 19B, Volume 5, Page 397 and Plat File 17 #21-04603. 18 1.12 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 55 action to authorize the County Engineer and 19 Grant Coordinator to issue a Request For Qualifications (RFQ) for engineering and 20 grant administrative services for the following flood mitigation grant programs: 21 Flood Mitigation Assistance (FMA), Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities(BRIC), 22 Hazard Mitigation Grant Program(HMGP), and Flood Infrastructure Fund(FIF), and authorize 23 a selection review committee to rate and select competing respondents. 24 25 4 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 NO. PAGE 3 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 59 action to surplus office furniture from 4 the District Clerk's Office and Sheriff's Office. 5 1.14 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 60 6 action to surplus three pieces of heavy equipment from the Road & Bridge Department. 7 1.15 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 61 8 action for the Commissioners' Court approval for the Road & Bridge Department to purchase 9 three new pieces of heavy equipment with trade-ins. 10 1.16 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 63 11 action to go out for Annual Bids for Road Materials. 12 1.17 Consider, discuss and take appropriate 64 13 action to approve the Interlocal Contract for Licensing South Central Planning & 14 Development Commission (SCPDC) Software, Import Data from SAFE Software to MyGovernment 15 Online. 16 1.18 Presentation by the City of Kerrville 70 regarding possible County participation in 17 TIRZ-related workforce housing project. 18 *** Adjournment. 102 19 *** Reporter's Certificate. 103 20 * * * * * * 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come to order. It 2 is Monday, October the 23rd, 2023 at 9:00 o'clock in the 3 morning, and the Kerr County Commissioners' Court is now 4 in session. If you would, please stand for the prayer 5 and the pledge, which will be led by Commissioner Paces. 6 (Prayer and Pledge.) 7 JUDGE KELLY: Please be seated. We ask that everyone 8 please turn your phones off or to vibrate so they don't 9 interrupt the proceedings. We always start our regular 10 Commissioners Court meetings with public input. This is 11 an opportunity for us to hear from the public. We ask 12 that you keep your remarks under the limit of three 13 minutes and identify yourself when you go to the podium. 14 We also ask that you not address anything that is on the 15 agenda. If it's on the agenda, we request that you 16 wait until the agenda item is called and we'll deal with 17 it at that time. Is there any who would like to make a 18 public input to the Court that is not on the agenda? 19 Good. There being none we'll move on to 20 Commissioners' comments. And I guess I'll start -- 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: Start with Anne. 22 JUDGE KELLY: No. I'm going to start it 23 today. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 25 JUDGE KELLY: We have a new face on the 6 1 Court. This is Anne Overby. We're going to swear her 2 in here in just a little bit. This is her husband, 3 Kerwin, down here on the front row. In his proper 4 place. 5 MR. OVERBY: Thank you, Rob. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Just want to welcome you to 7 the Court. And with that, this is the part in our 8 meeting when Commissioners give input from their 9 precincts what's going on there. And so we usually 10 start with one, but we'll omit you today since you have 11 not had the opportunity to catch up on that, so we'll 12 start with Commissioner Paces, Precinct 2. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Well, for 14 Precinct 2 the burn ban remains lifted. And haven't had 15 a lot of rain here but maybe we'll get a little bit more 16 today. Certainly praying for it. 17 We had the Annular Eclipse on Saturday, 18 October 14th. I'm waiting to hear some more official 19 reports on the visitors but really, traffic and parking 20 was not a problem despite two very successful concurrent 21 events, the River Festival and the Chalk Festival. So 22 anyway, in our planning meetings we will factor this 23 experience in preparation for the full eclipse in April. 24 During our last regular Commissioners' Court 25 meeting, we approved the use of the Hill Country Youth 7 1 Event Center for a Federal Highway Department 2 presentation on road safety on November 15th. 3 Unfortunately, this event will be canceled and 4 rescheduled sometime in the New Year. 5 And otherwise the only thing, hey, Center 6 Point Volunteer Fire Department had a successful fish 7 fry fundraiser last Saturday and I just wanted to thank 8 everybody that came out to support our VFD. That's it. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Precinct 3. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A couple comments. One, 11 I don't know if it's a -- hopefully people will give 12 some more information. I know that Axis Energy has been 13 contacting people in my Precinct along Cypress Creek 14 road. Two people have received letters that are a 15 little bit forceful, threatening eminent domain 16 basically. To my knowledge they have not talked to the 17 County and from where the people are contacting me, 18 they're going to cross County right-of-way. So anybody 19 with Axis Energy or anyone else in the public that has 20 received any of these letters, I would appreciate if you 21 would contact me and try to figure out what's going on. 22 And they've been very tight-lipped, as I understand it, 23 because of the individuals about what's going on with 24 that. 25 Other comment. You know, back a little bit, 8 1 ribbed the Judge a little bit. He made a comment last 2 Monday, about being the face of Kerr County. I can't 3 say on the face of Kerr County, but I can say pretty 4 adamantly that I am the face of Precinct 3 after being 5 elected for 27 years. So, you know, age is not 6 everything. I started when I was in my 30s, I believe. 7 Maybe early 40s. So anyway, enough said on that. 8 Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All right. A couple 10 things coming up. This next Saturday, Tierra Linda is 11 having their VFD fundraiser and they're not in our 12 County but they help us a whole lot. 13 Also, the follow Friday, which should be 14 November 3rd, the Divide School's having their annual 15 fundraiser out there at Divide VFD. And I encourage 16 people to go out and help both of these fundraisers. 17 One thing I want to say is kind of chime in 18 on what Commissioner Letz said about last Monday. I 19 mean, I've had lots of people come up to me all week 20 long with questions, more comments than questions, and I 21 even spoke to Anne a little bit about this beforehand. 22 You know, I'm not ashamed of being white, that's for one 23 thing. That was one of the things. This gray hair, I 24 think I've earned it. With that, hopefully it comes 25 with wisdom. 9 1 These are all elected positions. But people 2 knew what we looked like before they voted us up here. 3 So that's important. 4 The last two campaigns in Precinct 2 for 5 Commissioner there's been women that were on -- doing 6 the campaign and they didn't get elected. It was going 7 to be inevitable that we're going to get a woman on the 8 Court. Everything's been positive towards Anne and 9 that's not a slight on her. Her credentials, I heard 10 over and over, are outstanding, no matter your -- what 11 gender. And so I welcome you aboard. 12 MRS. OVERBY: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I look forward to 14 working with you. 15 MRS. OVERBY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: So -- that's it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I go back to 18 one thing because there's something I wanted to mention 19 the Sheriff just texted it to me. For those that don't 20 know, Sheriff Leitha received a very prestigious award 21 in San Diego? Was San Diego the -- 22 SHERIFF LEITHA: California. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somewhere out there. 24 SHERIFF LEITHA: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it's the 10 1 International Association of Chiefs of Police. It's a 2 National Award. FBI picks ten agencies around the world 3 and Sheriff Leitha was one of the eight out of the 4 United States that was chosen for outstanding work. It's 5 the Booz Allen Hamilton Leadership Prevention in 6 Terrorism Award, so congratulations. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Congratulations. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. Outstanding. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well done. Well 10 earned. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Then we'll move on to 12 the Agenda, the Consideration Agenda. The first item is 13 1.1, which is to consider, discuss and take appropriate 14 action to set salary for Anne Overby, Commissioner 15 Precinct 1, as per appointment on October 16th. 16 Schedule's attached. I believe it's just 17 right at $65,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 19 set the salary for the base salary for Commissioner, 20 which is $62,600 -- no, $62,639.94. No. $65,771.94. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Correct. We got a motion -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: There's two of them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $65,771.94. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Right. I'll second the 11 1 motion. Is there any other discussion? We have a 2 motion and a second to set the salary for Commissioner 3 Precinct 1 as presented. Any discussion? Those in 4 favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. 5 Item number 2 is to consider, discuss and 6 take appropriate action to approve the bond for County 7 Commissioner Precinct 1. 8 We received that this morning. I've already 9 turned it in. I've already reviewed it and it's with 10 the packet to be presented when we do the swearing in. 11 So with that, is there a motion to approve the bond? 12 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 14 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 15 approve the bond as presented. Any discussion? Those 16 in favor say aye. Opposed? It carries. 17 And with that, I'm going to step down from 18 the bench and ask Anne to step down and we'll do the 19 swearing in down on the floor. 20 Okay. Kerwin, are you going to stand up 21 here? 22 MR. OVERBY: Sure. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I've got two oaths and 24 we're going to do the unimportant -- less important one 25 first, okay, and get it out of the way. And this one is 12 1 it's the non-corruption oath that the State of Texas 2 requires. Repeat after me. 3 (Anne Overby was sworn in by Jude Kelly.) 4 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. If you would, sign that 5 and we'll put that in the file. 6 MRS. OVERBY: Okay. 7 (Signing document.) 8 MRS. OVERBY: All right. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Housekeeping. That 10 goes with the bond. 11 Now raise your right hand. Repeat after me. 12 (Anne Overby was sworn in by Judge Kelly.) 13 JUDGE KELLY: Congratulations. 14 MRS. OVERBY: Thank you. 15 (Applause.) 16 JUDGE KELLY: I just need you to sign it. 17 MRS. OVERBY: Okay. I can sign it. 18 (Signing document.) 19 JUDGE KELLY: You're going to learn there's 20 a lot of paperwork in this job. 21 MR. OVERBY: There's a lot of paperwork in 22 my job. Thank you. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 24 Okay. Then the next item on the agenda is 25 Item 1.3 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 13 1 on a request from the Kerrville Masonic Lodge No. 697 to 2 use the Courthouse grounds for their 2024 Charity Car 3 Show fundraiser on March 30, 2024. 4 MR. RISEMAS: Good morning, Your Honor, 5 Commissioners. My name is Rodney Risemas. I'm with the 6 Kerrville Masonic Lodge and we are a non-profit 7 organization that wishes to secure approval to use the 8 County grounds -- the County Courthouse grounds for our 9 annual charity car show. We're requesting the 30th of 10 March, 2024. 11 We are a non-profit organization. The 12 reason for our fundraisers are to give back to the 13 community. We do annual scholarships for our local high 14 school youth, as well as donate to a majority of other 15 charities, the fire plug program, the Salvation Army and 16 a few others. And we just would like to continue doing 17 this and doing it with more vigor. 18 JUDGE KELLY: And by point of clarification, 19 you did this last year, right? 20 MR. RISEMAS: I did, yes, sir. So this is 21 our second one. 22 JUDGE KELLY: So this is repeat, your second 23 one. And who did you bring with you, I see him sitting 24 there? 25 MR. RISEMAS: This is John Lehmann. 14 1 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 2 MR. RISEMAS: He is the next in line for 3 succession, as I was the junior guy last year. He will 4 be taking over next year. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Very good. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Anything specific you 7 need from the County? No electrical? 8 MR. RISEMAS: Just electrical, sir, and then 9 use of the parking lots. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 13 approve the use of the Courthouse by the Kerrville 14 Masonic Lodge for their charity car show as presented. 15 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 16 Motion carries. 17 1.4 consider, discuss and take appropriate 18 action regarding issue with the traffic mirror on Indian 19 Creek. 20 MR. TENERY: Thank you. Good morning, 21 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Sean Tenery. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sean, we need you at 23 the podium back there. 24 MR. TENERY: Oh, the podium. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And if you would identify 15 1 yourself so the people on YouTube know who you are. 2 MR. TENERY: Thank you. My name is Sean 3 Tenery. I live at 135 Indian Oaks Drive, Kerrville, 4 Texas. I own a company here in town called TNT 5 Services. We are a road and dam building company. 6 What I'm here today to ask about or talk 7 about is a traffic mirror that was installed on Indian 8 Creek Road around the 740 block. We have been on this 9 project for about three years. And we have increased 10 the traffic on that road by as much as 50 cars a day. 11 When we thought this was going to be a good idea, is 12 whenever clients started to come around that corner and 13 having to lock the brakes up and having to make 14 maneuvers and stuff. There's a 90-degree corner on that 15 road that you cannot see all the way right or all the 16 way left on. 17 So we took it upon ourselves to install this 18 mirror, which I have pictures of here, at a point to 19 where both oncoming traffics could see each other before 20 they made the corner, to help avoid an accident. So 21 that being said, the reason for it, of course, was to 22 protect our client, our employees, everyone else. 23 About -- I guess it's been two or three 24 weeks ago now, the County came and took the mirror down. 25 The reasoning behind that was one, of course, we didn't 16 1 ask for permission to, which we should have, now that 2 you know we're in this, but -- but we also -- when they 3 took the mirror down, there was nothing done to make 4 this problem go away. There's no other solution to the 5 problem. 6 So really what I'm asking for, is for us to 7 come to a solution together on what we can do to make 8 this corner safe for my client, my employees, everyone 9 who lives on Indian Creek Road, and just kind of put our 10 heads together and see what we can do. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. Anybody 12 from Road & Bridge? I think I saw the mirror here. 13 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. And a second mirror got 14 put up. We took that one down and -- 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Kelly, why don't you 16 go to the podium. 17 MS. HOFFER: We still -- 18 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Robert, you want to 19 get the -- 20 MS. HOFFER: We took the first one down 21 and -- 22 JUDGE KELLY: So the public knows, this is 23 Kelly Hoffer. 24 MS. HOFFER: I'm the Road & Bridge 25 Administrator. We went out Friday with the County 17 1 engineer, Robert, myself and the County Engineer, and 2 they had installed another mirror after we told them 3 that you can't install this. So this is the one we took 4 down. 5 And as Friday at 3:30 there's another one 6 and it's mounted on a tree. A line bolt through the 7 tree. So we've looked at it, we're trying to finish up 8 our sealcoat program. I spoke with Robert on this, 9 which is one of the crew chiefs. We do need to do some 10 brush cutting out there. And then we are going to add 11 some advance warning signs for the curve. I think we 12 just got approval end of last week with the County 13 Engineer on the advisory curve sign. So those are the 14 things that we are going to do at this location. 15 But these are not supported in the MUTCD, 16 which is the Manual on Uniform Traffic Devices. You 17 will not find these in that guide. And that guide is a 18 Federal guide on what signs you should be putting up. 19 And these mirrors could be used like in commercial 20 building areas were you've got a lot of buildings close 21 together on private property, but they are not supported 22 to be mounted on county roads or state roads. Any of 23 them. So we only put up signs that are supported 24 through the MUTCD and these are not. If we did allow 25 these, they would have to be on a break-away pole. But 18 1 we do not allow them. 2 We just received a phone call from a man 3 that lives a little bit farther up from this location 4 and we told him that and that was just a few weeks ago. 5 And then Robert went out to check on the cattle guard 6 because some of the pipes, the welds were broken, which 7 we assume probably from the heavy equipment coming 8 across the cattle guards and that's when he noticed the 9 mirror. So he came back in, reported it, and then he 10 went out a few days later to remove it. 11 So there is one currently up again that's at 12 this location. So -- 13 JUDGE KELLY: And do you propose to take 14 that one down? 15 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Has there been any discussion 17 with Mr. Tenery or any of his associates? 18 MS. HOFFER: We -- he came in on the first 19 one and wanted his mirror back and I said we generally 20 do not give things that people place within the County's 21 right-of-way back. So I had suggested that he call 22 Commissioner Harris, which he did, and then like I said, 23 we went out there on Friday and another one had been 24 installed again after I told him no, that we don't allow 25 those installed in a right-of-way. 19 1 JUDGE KELLY: And what is your 2 recommendation to this Court? 3 MS. HOFFER: My recommendation is to remove 4 the second one that's out there and get some brush cut 5 out there and put up these advance curve signs. It's a 6 narrow road. It basically is a driveway to a couple 7 pieces of property in the back. I think the pavement -- 8 what is it, Robert, 15 feet? 9 ROBERT: 14, 15. 10 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. Probably a road that 11 probably should not have been, this back portion, taken 12 in for County maintenance, but it was. Because it's 13 basically like a driveway. 14 Another thing the County Engineer suggested 15 that maybe they want to gate some of this back property 16 and the County no longer maintains. And then if they 17 want to put up, you know, a mirror back there, they can 18 do, you know, whatever they want if -- if the property 19 owners back there want to do that. But then the County 20 no longer maintains that road. That was suggested as an 21 option. 22 JUDGE KELLY: And do I understand correctly 23 that your office remains ready, willing and able to sit 24 down and discuss anything with -- any concerns? 25 MS. HOFFER: Yes. 20 1 JUDGE KELLY: Mr. Tenery, what do you 2 propose? 3 MR. TENERY: I would like to keep the mirror 4 there until we come to the conclusion of what is going 5 to actually happen, until we get the other signs 6 installed, until we get the poles removed. Just to keep 7 that piece of road safe until the County has taken 8 action on the other side of that. 9 I would like to talk to my clients down 10 there and talk about taking the road over. And get it 11 out of the County jurisdiction because she's right. I 12 mean, it is really a pain in the butt for the County. 13 Just that little stretch down there. And we have -- we 14 have tried to do as much as possible when the cattle 15 guard breaks or something we fixed it. When foliage 16 falls out in the road we clean it up. So we've been 17 doing a lot of maintenance there already. So it really 18 wouldn't be that big of a deal. 19 JUDGE KELLY: But you understand that you 20 need to comply with the requirements of our Road & 21 Bridge Administration? 22 MR. TENERY: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So I don't see any 24 action to be taken other than if you want to visit with 25 Ms. Hoffer. Make an appointment and y'all sit down and 21 1 discuss this and if you have any other recommendations 2 to bring to us, we'll hear them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Judge, I -- my 4 comment is that -- I don't know if we have to take 5 action or not, but I think it's important that our roads 6 follow safety guidelines. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Absolutely. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the mirror needs to 9 come down and stay down if it's not in -- you know, 10 something that's prescribed by the safety manual, 11 Federal safety manual, that we follow and TxDOT follows. 12 Because if there's an accident now and there's something 13 contrary to that manual, then I think there could be 14 some issues. So I mean I hate to -- would encourage, 15 you know, Kelly to do what they want -- what she's 16 proposing, which is clear some brush and put up some 17 signage, which is the same as we had -- same situation. 18 And this situation -- each our precincts have numerous 19 roads that have probably 90-degree corners that are 20 like -- I certainly do have quite a few. 21 So I just think we need to be consistent and 22 follow the safety standards. And if they don't allow 23 these mirrors, we take the mirrors down. I think you 24 can give them back to Mr. Tenery. I mean, I don't have 25 a problem with that. 22 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: I just have one 2 question, Kelly. What's the speed limit? 3 MR. TENERY: It is -- on the back part it 4 is, I believe, 30 miles an hour. On the back there. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: We might want to adjust 6 that as well. 7 MS. HOFFER: The other concern too that 8 Robert had brought up is at night, not a -- if you have 9 two cars and if it catches it right that, you know, it 10 may blind the other driver with the headlights. Don't 11 know, but -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: I don't want to get into the 13 speculation of all this stuff. I want to follow the 14 rules. And you're following the rules. Mr. Tenery, you 15 understand the dilemma that we're facing? 16 MR. TENERY: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE KELLY: We need to comply with the 18 rules because if we don't, then we could be the subject 19 of a complaint that we did something that was unsafe. 20 MR. TENERY: Correct. 21 JUDGE KELLY: So that's why I encourage you 22 to sit down with Miss Hoffer and see what y'all can work 23 out. But at the end of the day, we're going to follow 24 her recommendation. So that's just -- that's my 25 position. 23 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Just one other little 2 thing I want to add is that, you know, we have County 3 maintained roads and subdivisions and stuff. Sometimes 4 people put huge rocks and different stuff they think is 5 ornamental and it ends up in our right-of-way and they 6 can be held liable for if somebody runs off the road and 7 hits stuff like that. And I know that we have taken 8 them up before, we don't give the rocks back or whatever 9 else it might be. You know, we ask people to take them 10 out and if they don't in a timely manner then we have to 11 send people out to collect them and stuff like that. So 12 that's my two cents. 13 JUDGE KELLY: So we're not taking any 14 action? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 16 JUDGE KELLY: We're just going to refer you 17 to the Road & Bridge Department and we'll take it from 18 there. 19 MR. TENERY: Okay. 20 JUDGE KELLY: So we'll move on to the next 21 agenda item, which is Item 1.5, which is consider, 22 discuss and take appropriate action to approve contract 23 with Hunt Volunteer Fire Department. 24 These are routine. This one just came due. 25 So I make a motion that we approve the Volunteer Fire 24 1 Department contract with the Hunt VFD. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 3 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 4 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 5 Motion carries. 6 Item 1.6 consider, discuss and take 7 appropriate action to amend the Court Order No. 39721 8 (Liaison Appointment for 2023) to update liaison duties 9 to include Commissioner Overby. 10 And if you look at the attachment, I have 11 visited with everyone affected except Commissioner 12 Overby, and you'll learn that as the new person on the 13 court you get what's left over. 14 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Exciting. 15 JUDGE KELLY: Well, I bet you're going to 16 find that these are actually very reasonable. We're 17 talking about adding Commissioner Overby with 18 Commissioner Letz for Animal Services because he's going 19 to rotate off the Court and we need to have somebody to 20 advise on what we're doing over there. 21 We also wanted to -- this is a 22 recommendation -- I sat down and visited with 23 Commissioner Harris and Commissioner Paces about this 24 and this is our recommendation. We want to add 25 Commissioner Paces to the HR Indigent Services with 25 1 Commissioner Letz for that transition period also. 2 On IT, you're the youngest on the Court. So 3 we're looking at Commissioner Overby to help us with IT. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: You missed the first 5 one that she's on. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Oh, courthouse security. It 7 stays with Commissioner Paces. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh. 9 JUDGE KELLY: We didn't -- did we change it? 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, you changed it. 11 That's -- this is the second list that -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure when y'all 13 connected but nobody's talked to me about any of these. 14 And I don't believe y'all can meet and talk about them 15 without the entire Court. 16 JUDGE KELLY: That's true. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: We can change it. 18 Whatever you want. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't -- I don't 20 have a problem with -- 21 JUDGE KELLY: No, let me just finish going 22 through them. We talked about Overby for courthouse 23 security. 24 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes. These are 25 suggestions. 26 1 JUDGE KELLY: These are suggestions. We're 2 not doing anything. We talked about IT. Commissioner 3 Paces stays with investments. Commissioner Harris stays 4 with maintenance. Commissioner Paces stays with 5 environmental health. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Commissioner Harris will take 8 over public relations. And Commissioner Paces keeps 9 victims services. Commissioner Harris will take over 10 9-1-1. And just as a heads up, I learned this the hard 11 way, we never say 9-11; it's 9-1-1. 12 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: 9-1-1. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. And AACOG is -- I do 14 AACOG. I'm the vice chair of AACOG right now. You would 15 be the alternate. And Commissioner Paces would stay 16 with the aggregate production operations. And I'm 17 unable to attend the Airport Board, because it directly 18 conflicts with the AACOG meeting and so we're talking 19 about having -- Commissioner Paces has asked to serve on 20 that with Commissioner Letz. 21 And then on City Fire/EMS, that was a Belew 22 function that we would ask Commissioner Overby to take 23 over. Paces would stay with the eclipse roundtable. 24 Commissioner Letz and I would stay with economic 25 development. Commissioner Harris will stay with 27 1 extension. Commissioner Harris will stay with the Youth 2 Event Center. Commissioner Overby will be the 3 Historical Commission. And I will remain the liaison 4 with the MHDD board, with the sexual assault response 5 team, and Commissioner Paces would be the liaison with 6 volunteer fire departments. That's just the 7 suggestions. 8 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: And you said Animal 9 Services, too? 10 JUDGE KELLY: Uh-huh. Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: All right. 12 JUDGE KELLY: And now, we talk about it. We 13 don't have to do any action today, but what we're trying 14 to do is we're trying to take Commissioner Belew's 15 liaison positions, rearrange what the more senior 16 commissioners are interested in and then provide for 17 your duties. 18 And we average about -- well, I think it's 19 about five or six liaison responsibilities for each one 20 of us, and what the duty for the liaison commissioner is 21 to report back -- you have a part of the agenda here in 22 just a little bit at the end, where we have liaison 23 reports. And that is to keep the Court informed. 24 Because we can't talk about all these things without 25 violating the Open Meetings Act outside a public 28 1 meeting. And when we have a public meeting, liaisons 2 can report what's going on in your area. If there's an 3 Animal Services thing going on or and IT thing going on, 4 you can let us know so we can have a heads up. So we'll 5 pass on that. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, let's hear some 7 input from him if he has -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine with it. I 9 don't have any problems with it. I was just -- you said 10 you talked to everybody, you didn't talk to me. But I 11 don't know if you pass on it because -- 12 JUDGE KELLY: Another appointment then I can 13 do them but -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they're not 15 appointments you can do, Judge. Sorry. This is a court 16 decision to make, at least it has been historically 17 since we created it. But I think that the -- it makes 18 sense to do it now so there's not any voids. And be 19 easier if we do it in January and we're doing it two 20 months early. 21 I have no problem with any of them. I think 22 it's pretty much in line what I was thinking we would do 23 in January before all this happened. Because I do want 24 to try to start winding down and get other people on the 25 ones that I'm on so that there's some, you know, 29 1 continuity in a year and two months. 2 So I make a motion to approve the list as 3 was outlined. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I second that. 5 MRS. SOLDAN: Judge, can I make a request 6 for an addition, either now or in the future, for the 7 Bail Bond Board? If you could -- 8 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah, we don't have that on 9 here. 10 MRS. SOLDAN: No. So by Occupations Code, 11 you are on the Bail Bond Board but you can appoint 12 somebody in your replacement, and currently it is 13 Commissioner Belew, or Harley Belew. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like Commissioner 15 Overby to me. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah, me too. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Welcome aboard. And 18 this isn't so bad but if you miss one, boy. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: You -- you don't want 20 to come to the next one if you miss one. 21 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER PACES: So are we approving 23 that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There's a motion. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 30 1 Any other discussion? Those in favor say aye. Motion 2 carries. 3 We've got a bunch of timed items that we're 4 not to yet, so we have to go over to the un-timed items, 5 which goes as -- takes us to the approval agenda. 6 I caught the Auditor by surprise on that 7 one. 8 MRS. SHELTON: You did. 9 JUDGE KELLY: And just -- just an 10 explanation, when an item is timed we take that item as 11 close to that time as we can. And un-timed items, 12 you'll see, do not have times beside them. So when 13 everything -- all the other items on the agenda today 14 are timed, that's why we're going to the Approval 15 Agenda. 16 So we'll call for 2.1 budget amendments. 17 MRS. SHELTON: Yes, sir. You have three 18 budget amendments in front of you. Line item 19 adjustments and the economic development corporation 20 fees were a little bit higher than what we anticipated. 21 And then -- for the Lake Ingram bond. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 25 approve the budget amendments as presented. Any 31 1 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 2 carries. 3 2.2 pay bills. 4 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. Invoices for today's 5 consideration $2,373,881.60. 6 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 9 approve the late bills -- or pay the bills as presented. 10 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 11 Motion carries. 12 2.3 late bills. 13 MRS. SHELTON: There are not any. 14 JUDGE KELLY: 2.4 Auditor reports. 15 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. You have received the 16 internal audit report for the District Clerk, Dawn 17 Lantz. And we ask that you accept the report. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 21 approve the Auditor report as presented. Any 22 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 23 carries. 24 Monthly reports. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. For September, 32 1 2023. Environment Health, OSSF Director Ashli Badders. 2 Environmental Health, OSSF, Amended, Director Ashli 3 Badders. Treasurer's payroll report, Tracy Soldan. 4 Environmental Health and Animal Services, Director 5 Reagan Givens. Revised investment portfolio summary. 6 April 1st, '23 through June 30th, 2023. And Veterans 7 Services Jenna Sanchez. I move for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 10 approve the monthly reports as presented. Any 11 discussion? I want to commend Commissioner Harris for 12 the last five years as the youngest -- we should have 13 done something about this before. 14 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I don't know what's 15 coming up, but -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Reading the monthly report, 17 that's what I'm saying. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm down to -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's always been 20 Precinct 4 is where we've done it. 21 JUDGE KELLY: I'm fine with you doing it. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: We'll have to get 23 somebody to do the Court Orders before long though. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So on these monthly 25 reports, we have a motion and a second to approve it. 33 1 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Carries. 2 Court orders. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have the Court Orders 4 from our October 10th meeting, 40259 through 40280. 5 They all look to be in order. I'll make a motion to 6 approve. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 9 approve the court orders as presented. Any discussion? 10 Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Carries. 11 We'll move on over to the Information 12 Agenda. Status reports from Department Heads. 13 MS. HOFFER: I just wanted to follow-up with 14 the Court. Our equipment auction was on Saturday and we 15 sold everything. And the total -- this doesn't have 16 Trey's cut taken out yet, but the total was $327,000. I 17 was told that any of the people from Road & Bridge -- 18 they had a couple pieces of equipment they thought they 19 might bid on. They said the bids got so high on this 20 stuff that -- so $327,000 is pretty good. 21 And I think it's 38 or 39 pieces of 22 equipment, so we're going to get stuff sent over to HR 23 for the insurance. We've worked with Hilda from the 24 Auditor's Office to get it out of the inventory. So 25 that ought to help out a little bit. But we were real, 34 1 real pleased at that $327,000. 2 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And I understand that 3 everything is supposed to be picked up and hauled off by 4 sometime tomorrow? 5 MS. HOFFER: That's my understanding. I 6 think most of it was already taken. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. 8 MS. HOFFER: So -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Any other Department 10 Head reports? 11 Move on to 3.2 status reports from elected 12 officials. Miss Soldan. 13 MRS. SOLDAN: I just want to point out -- 14 the revised investment report that you all just 15 approved, I wanted to point out the Schreiner investment 16 portion of it and give a little background because I 17 know that there are some members of the Court that are 18 not familiar with it. 19 So the trust account for the Schreiner road 20 fund was set up in 1920 in the amount of $175,000. And 21 for this amount to stay in its entirety and the interest 22 earned to be used for roads in Precincts 1 and 4. I 23 won't -- if y'all are interested, I will share with you 24 what the actual trust agreement said, but Charles 25 Schreiner donated the money and wanted those roads to be 35 1 maintained from his property in the County. 2 All of this being said, by the end of 2019, 3 the principal balance was below the original trust 4 amount of $175,000 due to low interest rates not 5 generating enough interest to cover the service fees 6 that the bank was charging to manage the fund, so the 7 Court had that trust agreement dissolved and moved the 8 investment of funds under the control of the County 9 Treasurer. The fund balance at the time was $165,765.80 10 in December of 2019. As of June 30th, that report that 11 you have there, $9,251.22 in interest has been earned, 12 bringing the trust account balance up to $175,017.02. 13 So we're back in the black and any interest earned from 14 this point forward in the future can be used for road 15 maintenance. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Any questions? That was one 17 of the curious things I learned from one of the first 18 meetings we had. I didn't even know the Schreiner's had 19 donated that money, and it's in Precincts 1 and 4. 20 Okay. Any other elected officials? 21 Then 3.3 status reports from liaison 22 commissioners. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah, I -- I want to 24 say that we just posted a temporary position out at 25 extension and I encourage people to look at that if 36 1 they're looking for short-term employment. Also, I'd 2 encourage people to look at our website as far as jobs 3 all the time. We always have some listed. So it's a 4 good place to send people to, yeah, so try to find work. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: I've already talked 7 about the eclipse. It's of interest but it was kind 8 of -- 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We're actually five 10 minutes ahead of where we need to be. Let's take a 11 short recess for five minutes. 12 (Recess) 13 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come back to order. 14 Before we finish up on liaison reports on the 3.3, I 15 wanted to advise the Court that we've been working on -- 16 we've been working with the City on the need to improve 17 Al Mooney Road, right there beside where we need to be 18 able to accommodate heavier traffic and keep the heavy 19 traffic away from the schools. That will be put on the 20 agenda for the next Commissioners' Court meeting, but I 21 wanted to give everybody a heads up on that and I 22 forgot. So we'll do that when we start back up. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the same project 24 that we talked about in our Executive Session in the 25 last meeting. 37 1 JUDGE KELLY: Right. Right. Okay. So with 2 that, the next agenda item is 1.7 consider, discuss and 3 take appropriate action regarding paper ballots. 4 Colonel Cremin. 5 COLONEL CREMIN: My name is legally John 6 Cremin, I go by Jack. I'm asking the Commissioners' 7 Court to discuss and provide only paper ballots signed 8 by an Election Judge to be hand-marked for the November 9 election with the exception of ADA voters. Most Kerr 10 County voters that I know and have talked to them would 11 like to see more transparency to ensure election 12 integrity. One logical step is to continue to provide 13 paper ballots. I understand paper ballots have already 14 been ordered. Paper ballots ensure transparency and a 15 good audit trail. 16 Texas Election Code Chapter 127, Section 17 127.201, requires a partial manual count of electronic 18 ballots to ensure accuracy of the tabulation of the 19 electronic voting and requires a manual count of all the 20 races. Of course there's some additional fine tuning to 21 that tabulation. I recommend hand count for this 22 non-individual race as a test bed for future elections. 23 Trust but verify. Famous book by Ronald Reagan. That's 24 why I'm asking for paper ballots as a Kerr County 25 recipient. 38 1 My final assignment in the Air Force was the 2 Inspector General of two commands, the United States 3 Space command and NORAD. Military service leaders rely 4 on accurate and timely inspections. Both on scheduled 5 and non -- and no notice evaluations. During my five 6 years as Inspector General, I traveled worldwide to 7 trusted units with a team. I had two separate teams. 8 Testing and verifying performance of both personnel and 9 equipment. 10 I witnessed electronic equipment fail and 11 give erroneous results. Military commanders rely on 12 accuracy to make proper decisions. In Kerr County I 13 hope we can have paper ballots to continue to do the 14 accuracy and transparency through paper ballots 15 supported by regulated electronic equipment. Harris 16 County just recently had a problem with the election. 17 Hope we don't have that here. Thank you. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I have a couple people 19 that want to speak. Fred Henneke. 20 MR. HENNEKE: Fred Henneke, 2595 Bandera 21 Highway, Kerrville, Texas 78028, Precinct 2. I'm 22 confused by this agenda item, because I believe that as 23 Mr. Cremin pointed out, we use paper ballots. When you 24 go to vote after you're qualified to, typically by 25 showing your driver's license which is one of the 39 1 approved I.D.s, you're given an array of three paper 2 ballots and you choose one and you go to your cubical 3 and you mark them yourself. And then you take them to 4 the tabulator and if you did it correctly, it's gone. I 5 mean, it goes into the tabulator. The paper ballot 6 itself falls down into the box and the paper ballot is 7 then for audit, should audit be necessary. 8 So I'm not sure what about paper ballots 9 that we use are paper ballots. I'm confused here by 10 this request to use paper ballots, because we use paper 11 ballots. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Except for the ADA. 13 MR. HENNEKE: Except for the ADA. Yeah, the 14 ADA requires that there be electronic machines for 15 people that are handicapped -- 16 JUDGE KELLY: Right. 17 MR. HENNEKE: -- and they cannot do it, mark 18 their own individual ballots by hand. The last time I 19 was an Election Judge, I think we had like 470 some odd 20 votes from the Precinct that I was administering, I 21 think that approximately 31 used the electric -- did 22 electronic voting machine. All the rest were hand 23 voted. 24 So I don't understand the request here but I 25 want to emphasize that the election department does a 40 1 superb job. There's no complaints. There never have 2 been any complaints. This seems to be following a 3 pattern of a solution that serves no problem. 4 Another analogy I would put out there is 5 broken record and it just keeps repeating itself, 6 repeating itself, repeating itself and doesn't go any 7 further. 8 So I support hand ballots. Paper ballots. I 9 support the use of the electronic machines from Hart 10 because they have proven over years and years of use 11 that they are respectable, durable, accurate and legal. 12 And I see no reason why there's any justification for 13 change in the system that has been tried and true ever 14 since at least 2008. 15 So paper ballots is what we use. Paper 16 ballots is what we should continue to use and we should 17 continue to have open, accurate, legal and accurate 18 elections. Thank you, gentlemen. 19 JUDGE KELLY: Next is Alicia Bell. 20 MS. BELL: Alicia Bell, I'm in Precinct 1. 21 I'm asking the Court to go ahead and approve 100 percent 22 paper ballots for those that are not ADA. We really 23 would like to have sequentially numbered ballots so 24 that, you know, two cases -- not saying that stuff's 25 going to happen here but we need to have sequentially 41 1 numbered ballots so that there cannot be any additional 2 ballots, you know, that is inserted in there without us 3 knowing about it. We need to know exactly how many 4 ballots are in. If you use the electronic, you don't 5 know exactly how many people have voted. This needs to 6 be 100 percent auditable and electronic is not 7 auditable. 8 As I said, in the past I used to work for 9 the military entrance processing station, testing people 10 on the ASVAB going into the military. We used scanning 11 machines. And I tell you what, those do not have 12 accurate counts. I had to re -- we had to retest -- 13 recount tests all the time. Those are scanners. 14 Ballot image -- you know, the electronic can 15 always change something. We need to have auditable 16 elections. And if you have 100 percent electronic or 17 partial electronic, just like the ADA, that's not 18 auditable. Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment, I mean, 20 at this point we can't change our system, period, 21 because -- I mean, aren't we in early voting right now? 22 MS. BELL: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can't change the 25 system during the voting -- 42 1 MS. BELL: Well, you can state -- you can 2 choose to have a hundred percent paper ballots. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, if they have and 4 they've used the touch screen then we have to accept 5 those votes. I think the intent here was just to 6 minimize the use of the Verity DRE, which is the Direct 7 Recorded Electronic touch screen voting machines, 8 because they don't have a paper ballot. They don't 9 generate a paper ballot. 10 You know, Bob Reeves presented to the Court, 11 I think it was back in March, that there's a requirement 12 to go to that in 2026, but we're not there yet. And I 13 think, as Fred Henneke has talked about, he supports 14 paper ballots. I think the vast majority of our 15 citizens and voters support paper ballots. It's not a 16 significantly onerous burden on voters to have to fill 17 in the little squares or bubbles or whatever to vote. 18 So the whole idea is just to eliminate the Direct Record 19 Electronic touch screens that don't generate an 20 auditable paper trail. 21 MS. ALFORD: Can I address the Court, 22 please? 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes, please. 24 JUDGE KELLY: Please, Nadene. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I was going to ask you 43 1 to. But you asked your self. 2 MS. ALFORD: In regards to paper ballots -- 3 JUDGE KELLY: Identify who you are. 4 MS. ALFORD: Nadene Alford, Elections 5 Department and Tax Office. In regards to paper ballots, 6 we do use paper ballots. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yes. 8 MS. ALFORD: And they are auditable. We do 9 a partial manual count when the State tells us to count 10 Precinct 1, 2, 3, we do that. We cannot count, of 11 course, the DREs. That is correct. 12 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 13 MS. ALFORD: If we go to the -- to the newer 14 system that we have to have for DREs for handicapped 15 voters in '26, that creates a paper ballot which will 16 then go into the scanner, which will be counted, and 17 then that paper is auditable. But we do use paper 18 ballots. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 20 MS. ALFORD: We are one of the paper 21 ballots -- only paper ballot counties in the State of 22 Texas. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think Bob presented 24 in March that, what, 18 percent of the ballots from 2022 25 were using the DRE touch screen. 44 1 MS. ALFORD: Yes. Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES: The rest were all paper 3 ballots. 4 MS. ALFORD: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: And that's great. 6 That's wonderful. 7 MS. ALFORD: Yeah. So, I mean, to say we 8 are not a paper County; we are a paper County. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Sure. 10 MS. ALFORD: The ballots are numbered one -- 11 they start with one in Precinct 1 and go to how many 12 ballots -- 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think the idea is 14 just to get -- maximize paper ballots. 15 MS. ALFORD: Fair enough. But they are -- 16 they are auditable and everything. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: And Nadene, don't the 18 Verity dual, the ADA compliant, they actually print the 19 paper ballots, correct? 20 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. They will vote on 21 electronic and -- a disabled person has to be able to 22 vote independently. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: And we already have all 24 those? 25 MS. ALFORD: And we have that. All we have 45 1 to do is convert it to where it's printed -- we put in a 2 piece of paper, it puts what the voter has voted on 3 the -- on the ballot and they can take that ballot and 4 put it into the scanner. 5 COMMISSIONER PACES: So is there any real 6 implication if we stop using the DREs? 7 MS. ALFORD: Well, we have to have the DREs. 8 We can't stop those. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Why? 10 MS. ALFORD: Because the State requires us 11 to have a DRE available for a handicapped person. But I 12 can't -- 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: It has to be a DRE? It 14 can't be the Verity Dual? 15 MS. ALFORD: No, it can be either. Once we 16 get the Verity Dual, that -- that replaces the DRE. 17 That is the DRE. 18 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 19 MS. ALFORD: Because that person -- 20 COMMISSIONER PACES: We just don't have 21 those yet? 22 MS. ALFORD: No, we don't have those yet. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 24 MS. ALFORD: We have to purchase those. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm up on that. 46 1 MS. ALFORD: And that's what -- that -- once 2 it becomes a dual then a handicapped person who's blind 3 can put the headphones on it, they can vote it, and then 4 put in a piece of paper and print the ballots and then 5 they go over to the scanner and put it in the scanner to 6 be counted. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I guess one last 9 question, Nadene. Sorry. 10 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: Do we give people the 12 option to use the DREs other than ADA or do they have to 13 request it or how does that work? 14 MS. ALFORD: We -- we give them the option. 15 If they want to use the ADA, the DREs in that. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: Even if they're not 17 disabled? 18 MS. ALFORD: Yeah. Because I can't -- I 19 cannot determine that. It's not my job to determine if 20 they're disabled or not. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: So if they ask? 22 MS. ALFORD: There's a lot of people who 23 come from other counties and that's all they use, were 24 those electronic machines. That's what they want to 25 vote on. And that's what they're comfortable with and 47 1 that what they want to vote on. So they have that 2 option. If they don't want to vote electronic and they 3 want a paper ballot, they can vote a paper ballot. 4 MR. REEVES: Just to reiterate, Ms. Alford. 5 We can't ask -- we cannot ask what is your handicap. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: No. 7 MR. REEVES: I don't think the Court wants 8 to have to defend us on that. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Absolutely not. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be glad when the 11 election's over. Be done talking about this. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We'll move on to the 13 next agenda item, which is 1.8. This is a public 14 hearing that I'm convening to abandon and vacate and 15 discontinue Tucker Street in exchange for the dedication 16 of a recreational easement from the adjacent landowner 17 to the City of Kerrville for the Veterans Pathway 18 Sidewalk Project in Precinct 2. 19 It's a public hearing. Anybody want to 20 talk? 21 This is former Commissioner Moser. 22 MR. MOSER: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. 23 Tom Moser, 218 Yorktown Boulevard. I fully support the 24 proposed action by the Court to vacate that land so that 25 it enables -- better enables the Veterans Pathway from 48 1 the hospital all the way down to River Trail. A pathway 2 on Maldonado's property, thanks to Jonathan Letz who's 3 the one that suggested this, which I think was really 4 good. I hope that this can pass -- get passed and we 5 can vacate that land so we can work a deal with 6 Maldonado's to enable that pathway in an area that's 7 better for the veterans. 8 On that subject, let me iterate one more 9 time, if I may. This project had been proposed probably 10 about four years ago. This last year we've been working 11 diligently on it. Five entities have been involved in 12 this, the County leading the project, paying for it. 13 The City, TxDOT, the Veterans Hospital, and Maldonado's. 14 So it's been a good joint effort and we've had a 15 committee that's worked very effectively. 16 I would encourage Commissioners' Court to 17 move on with this -- fast on this project as possible. 18 We had hoped to have it opened by November 11th. That's 19 not going to happen. And I'll remind you that the 20 Empire State Building was built in a little over one 21 year. So we need to get off the dime and I know there's 22 hurdles we have to go through. But the funding, 23 appreciate that. But hopefully an announcement can be 24 made on November the 11th that the project is going to 25 take place, and if we get through with this, vacating 49 1 this land, move to the next step that would be great. 2 So thank you very much. 3 JUDGE KELLY: And to echo your sentiments, 4 this project is long overdue. Long overdue. 5 Okay. Item 1.9 -- well, I'll adjourn the 6 public meeting. 7 We'll move on to item 1.9, which is 8 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 9 the acknowledgement of construction completion of 10 private roads and drainage, and the release of the 11 letter of credit No. 922001116952 issued by Cadence Bank 12 in Tupelo, Mississippi in the amount of $23,528.56 for 13 the said private roads and drainage associated with the 14 YO Ranch Headquarters Subdivision. Charlie Hastings. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. 16 The final plat for YO Ranch Headquarters Subdivision was 17 approved February 13th, 2023. It contains 25 large 18 tracts over 100 acres each, with two newly constructed 19 private roads and drainage, to be maintained by the 20 developer and/or the homeowners' association. 21 Letter of Credit No. 922001116952, in the 22 amount of $495,888.00 with Cadence Bank, Tupelo, 23 Mississippi was submitted as a financial guarantee for 24 associated subdivision construction. It was recently 25 reduced to $23,528.56 as construction was nearing 50 1 completion. 2 A final walkthrough of the subdivision was 3 conducted by the Kerr County Engineering Department on 4 October the 3rd, 2023 and construction of the private 5 roads, privately maintained, and the associated 6 drainage, and establishment of vegetation to control 7 erosion was complete and in compliance with Kerr County 8 Subdivision Regulations at that time. 9 And I might add that the developer's 10 contractor, who is a local contractor, Ed Jenschke, they 11 are really good at establishing vegetation back. They 12 put topsoil down everywhere and they come in and they 13 drill -- they use a drill seed and so that seed gets put 14 down in the dirt a little deeper than just broadcast 15 seed. They don't use hydromulch, they just -- and they 16 did it right before they knew there was a rain coming 17 and in two weeks, two weeks, we had full grass coverage. 18 And that was in Stage 4. So I know we've recently 19 jumped into Stage 3 and -- but they just -- they know 20 what they're doing, and we'd like to see some of our 21 out-of-town contractors follow suit. 22 So County Engineer requests the Court 23 consider, discuss and take appropriate action regarding 24 the acknowledgement of construction completion of 25 private roads and drainage in the YO Ranch Headquarters 51 1 Subdivision and release letter of credit No. 2 922001116952, issued by Cadence Bank, Tupelo, 3 Mississippi in the amount of $23,528.56 for the said 4 private roads and drainage. The private roads and 5 drainage will be maintained by the developer and/or the 6 homeowners' association. Precinct 4. 7 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 10 approve the release of the letter of credit for the 11 YO Ranch Headquarters Subdivision as presented. Any 12 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 13 carries. 14 We'll go on to Item 1.10, which is another 15 public hearing I'll convene for a revision of plat for 16 Kerr Country Estates Section 2, Lots 35A and 35B. 17 Mr. Hastings. 18 MR. HASTINGS: Is this one the public 19 hearing? 20 JUDGE KELLY: Yeah. 21 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Anybody -- we're going to hear 23 from Charlie in just a minute. Anybody else want to 24 address the Court? There being none, the meeting is 25 adjourned. 52 1 We'll move on to the next item, which is 2 1.11 consider, discuss and take appropriate action 3 regarding a revision of plat for Treasure Hills Ranch, 4 Tracts 17R, 19A and 19B. 5 MR. HASTINGS: This proposal revises three 6 tracts into two tracts. The public hearing was held on 7 October the 10th, 2023. Tract 17R (8.53 acres), Tract 8 19A (5.0 acres), and Tract 19B (5.0 acres) will be 9 revised into Tract 17S (7.23 acres) and Tract 19R (11.28 10 acres). A portion of Tract 17R was granted to the 11 owners of Tracts 19A and B, and this proposed plat 12 revision completes the process. 13 Tract 17S will front Treasure Hills Road. 14 Tract 19R will have frontage on Treasure Hills Road and 15 Highway 16. 16 County Engineer requests the Court consider, 17 discuss and take appropriate action regarding the 18 revision of plat for Treasure Hills Ranch, Tracts 17R, 19 19A and 19B, Volume 5, Page 397 and Plat File 20 #21-04603, Precinct 1. 21 COMMISSIONER PACES: So Charlie, does 22 Tract 17S, which is going to be 7.23 acres, does that 23 already have a well on it? 24 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: On the residence? 53 1 MR. HASTINGS: I believe so. 2 COMMISSIONER PACES. Yeah. And then Tract 3 19R at 11 acres, that's going to be developed and they 4 can drill a well on that since it's beyond the 5 groundwaters 10-acre minimum? 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. I've got a motion -- 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 11 JUDGE KELLY: -- and a second to approve the 12 revision of plat for Treasure Hills Ranch as presented. 13 Any discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First thing I looked to 15 see if Gene Williams signed it and he had. 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER PACES: Just wanted to be sure. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Those in favor say aye. 19 Opposed? Carries. 20 Item 1.12 consider, discuss and take 21 appropriate action -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back on that point 23 though -- I think it's a point, though. We just set a 24 precedent on less than five -- less than ten acres for a 25 lot. I mean, they signed it over at Headwaters but it's 54 1 just that -- I know there's a well on it. But still, it 2 seems like we're -- I see a train wreck coming down the 3 road. We're approving things less than -- and they're 4 agreeing to it but, you know, it just seems really 5 strange to me. 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER PACES: I think the real 8 implication was for the other tract that hadn't been 9 developed that's now 11 acres -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: -- so it can be. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be. It's just -- 13 MR. HASTINGS: And they did reduce the 14 number of lots. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I know. 16 MR. HASTINGS: So they could have done 17 nothing and got those -- and been able to drill wells on 18 all three. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is good. 20 It makes total sense. But it's -- we just approved a 21 new -- Headwaters agreed to a new subdivision with less 22 than 10 acres with a well. Well observed but it 23 doesn't -- shouldn't make any difference. Anyway. 24 Okay. Enough. I'm off my soapbox. 25 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. We're going to move on 55 1 to Item 1.12, which is to consider, discuss and take 2 appropriate action to authorize the County Engineer and 3 the Grant Coordinator to issue an RFQ, a request for 4 qualifications, for engineering and grant administrative 5 services for the following flood mitigation grant 6 programs: One is Flood Mitigation Assistance. Two is 7 the Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities. 8 Three is the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, and four 9 is the Flood Infrastructure Fund, and authorize a 10 selection review committee to rate and select competing 11 respondents. Mr. Hastings. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you, Judge. Kerr 13 County is in need of an engineering consultant to assist 14 in developing grant applications to fund flood 15 mitigation projects, as well as provide engineering and 16 grant administrative services for those applications 17 that receive funding. 18 A selection review committee would also need 19 to be appointed by the Court to review submitted 20 qualifications and give recommendations to the Court of 21 whom to select for an engineering contract. In the 22 past, these selection committees have consisted of 23 various combinations of the following: The County 24 Engineer, County Attorney, County Auditor, County Grant 25 Coordinator, one or two Commissioners, and sometimes 56 1 even the County Judge. 2 The RFQ will need a quick response time as 3 some of the grant submittals are due in January of 2024. 4 To compensate for the short timeframe, once the 5 committee makes the selection it will be brought to the 6 Court to authorize a contract with an engineer and also 7 authorize submittal of grant applications. 8 We would anticipate having the RFQ's that 9 they respond back, I believe I've worked with the grant 10 coordinator and I do need the Court to authorize me to 11 continue working with her and authorize her to work on 12 this. I know that's how that process works but that's 13 what we're coming to with the Court. 14 I have been working with Noel on it. And 15 the schedule would be that RFQ's would be due to her 16 November the 16th, I believe that's a Thursday. She 17 would then send it out to the committee that next -- the 18 very next day, on the 17th, that Friday. And then the 19 committee would need to look at things, maybe over the 20 weekend, and come back on either Monday, Tuesday or 21 Wednesday, right before Thanksgiving, to make a 22 recommendation and bring it to the Court after 23 Thanksgiving to make an award on November, I believe, 24 the 27th. 25 JUDGE KELLY: So this is a very expedited 57 1 effort. 2 MR. HASTINGS: This would be expedited. The 3 two precincts that we have already identified that need 4 flood mitigation are two and three. I would recommend 5 to the Court to have the committee consist of the grant 6 coordinator, myself County Engineer, and the 7 Commissioners of Precincts 2 and 3, and if there's 8 anyone else that you wanted to add to look at these 9 RFQ's, that those are my recommendations. 10 COMMISSIONER PACES: Charlie, one question. 11 What do you expect the cost to be for this engineering 12 service and is it budgeted? 13 MR. HASTINGS: At this point, we've got it 14 in the RFQ that -- we're making it clear that -- that we 15 need to award to an engineer that would then -- if the 16 grant is -- if we're successful in securing a grant, 17 then it would be our engineer for that work. So this 18 would be pro bono on them at this point. If during the 19 RFP process and the award and if talking to an engineer 20 and they're like, no, we really want to get paid for the 21 grant application, then we would bring that to the Court 22 and let you know that also. 23 But I've seen these sometimes they work 24 where they -- they are confident in what they're 25 applying for and they know they're going to get 58 1 something eventually and -- and they're willing to put 2 the grant applications together up front, knowing that 3 they will get the engineering work. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Generally, the -- their 5 fees will come out of the grant. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Right. 7 MR. HASTINGS: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: I get that, I just want 9 to -- if for whatever reason -- 10 MR. HASTINGS: The work that they do before 11 the grant cannot be reimbursed by the grant. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we do have money 13 for line item for flood. We may have to reduce it to 14 what, a hundred thousand in the budget or -- 15 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 16 MR. HASTINGS: I think so. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So anyway, there is some 18 funding there if we need it. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. Well, I'll make 20 a motion, let's see, to authorize the County Engineer 21 and Grant Coordinator to issue a Request For 22 Qualifications for engineering and grant administrative 23 services for flood mitigation grant programs. 24 JUDGE KELLY: As presented. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: As presented. That's 59 1 right. Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- and the 3 review committee consists of -- 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. And the review 5 committee to consist of the County Engineer, the grant 6 coordinator, and the Commissioners for Precincts 2 7 and 3. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I second. 9 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second. 10 Any discussion? Those in favor say -- say aye. 11 MR. HASTINGS: The only discussion would be 12 if we could -- is that going to work, to get together 13 those couple of days before Thanksgiving? 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'm here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not going anywhere. 18 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 19 JUDGE KELLY: All those in favor say aye. 20 Opposed? Motion carries. 21 Item 1.13 consider, discuss and take 22 appropriate action to surplus office furniture from 23 the District Clerk's Office and Sheriff's Office. 24 Miss Mendoza. 25 MS. MENDOZA: Good morning. So I have from 60 1 the District Clerk's Office, there's a filing cabinet 2 and three chairs, and the Sheriff's Office has asked to 3 surplus three chairs. And they're all broken and need 4 to go. 5 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second. 7 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 8 approve surplusing the office furniture as presented. 9 Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? 10 Motion carries. 11 Item 1.14 consider, discuss and take 12 appropriate action to surplus three pieces of heavy 13 equipment from the Road & Bridge Department. 14 Miss Mendoza. 15 MS. MENDOZA: There's three pieces of heavy 16 equipment. There's a Caterpillar motor grader, 17 Caterpillar pneumatic roller, and a Caterpillar wheel 18 loader. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to -- I'll 20 make a motion that we approve surplusing the three 21 items. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 24 approve surplusing these three pieces of heavy equipment 25 as presented. 61 1 COMMISSIONER PACES: Just a question for 2 Kelly actually. 3 MS. HOFFER: Uh-huh? 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: I mean, is there a 5 reason why we're -- I know we're trading these in on new 6 equipment. Is that a better deal for us than auctioning 7 them off like we just went through? 8 MS. HOFFER: Yeah, I believe so. Because 9 the motor grader, they're giving us 70,000 and it's 21 10 to 22 years old. The pneumatic roller is a 2009, so 14 11 or 15 years old, they're giving us 16,000. And the 2004 12 Cat 924GZ wheel loader, 19 to 20 years old, they're 13 giving us 50,000. So pretty good trade in. 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Yeah. Fair enough. 15 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second 16 for the trade-in of this heavy equipment. Any other 17 discussion? Those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion 18 carries. 19 Move on to Item 1.15 consider, discuss and 20 take appropriate action for the Commissioners' Court 21 approval for the Road & Bridge Department to purchase 22 three new pieces of heavy equipment with trade-ins. 23 Ms. Hoffer. 24 MS. HOFFER: Before you is three purchasing 25 agreements with Holt Caterpillar to purchase three 62 1 pieces of heavy equipment, along with the three like 2 trade-ins that were just surplused here in Court by the 3 Auditor's Office. 4 At this time, I ask the Commissioners' Court 5 for their final approval to purchase the three listed 6 pieces of heavy equipment, along with the trades and 7 have the County Judge sign the same. Precincts 1, 2, 3 8 and 4. 9 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: And this is the 10 equipment that we discussed during the budget process 11 and everything? 12 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE KELLY: We got a motion and a second 16 to approve the sale -- or to purchase the heavy 17 equipment with the trade-ins as presented. Any 18 discussion? Those in favor -- 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: And how are we going to 20 finance this? We're going to issue a -- 21 MRS. SHELTON: Yes. This follows -- I 22 believe at the last meeting y'all approved buying this 23 now to be reimbursed. The County will be reimbursed 24 upon the funding of the note for the debt. 25 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. 63 1 MS. HOFFER: Tanya, it should just be like 2 I -- just these three. I think everything else is going 3 to take a while to get. 4 COMMISSIONER PACES: Okay. That's all. 5 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Got a motion and a 6 second to approve the purchase of this equipment with 7 the trade-ins. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 8 Opposed? Motion carries. 9 Item 1.16 consider, discuss and take 10 appropriate action to go out for annual bids for road 11 materials. Miss Hoffer. 12 MS. HOFFER: We are asking the Court to give 13 authorization for us to go out for our annual bids for 14 road material. We will come back to the Court to open 15 bids on November 27th, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Second. 18 JUDGE KELLY: Got a motion and a second to 19 approve going out for annual bids for road materials as 20 presented. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. 21 Opposed? Motion carries. 22 MS. HOFFER: Thank you. 23 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. 24 Item 1.17 consider, discuss and take 25 appropriate action to approve the Interlocal contract 64 1 for Licensing of South Central Planning and Development 2 Commission software, Import Data from SAFE Software to 3 MyGovernment Online. Miss Badders. 4 MRS. BADDERS: It's a timed items. Can we 5 take a recess? 6 JUDGE KELLY: Well, let's take a recess 7 until 10:30. 8 (Recess) 9 JUDGE KELLY: Court will come back to order. 10 Next item on the agenda is a timed item at 10:30, which 11 is Item 1.17 consider, discuss and take appropriate 12 action to approve the Interlocal Contract for Licensing 13 South Central Planning and Development Commission 14 Software, Import Data from SAFE Software to MyGovernment 15 Online. Ashli Badders. 16 MRS. BADDERS: Okay. Good morning, Court. 17 So this is -- we're asking for approval for the contract 18 with South Central Planning & Development Commission 19 Software, also known a MyGovernment Online. And this is 20 to get the process going to import our data that we have 21 with our current software program to the new one. It is 22 an approved budget item. And I've had the County 23 Attorney review the Interlocal Agreement and she has 24 approved it. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Ashli, this is the 65 1 deal that we discussed awhile back about -- 2 (County Attorney nodding head in affirmative 3 manner.) 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: -- people would input 5 their information from outside, just inter-office stuff? 6 MRS. BADDERS: This would allow the public 7 to be able to connect fully through online. So it's 8 able to digitize the Department. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they have to submit 10 it online -- electronically? 11 MRS. BADDERS: Well, the goal is to have it 12 done electronically. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this the one we heard 14 a lot of -- this is the one the City uses? 15 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yeah. And we heard a 16 lot of -- 17 MRS. BADDERS: Well, there's lots of 18 counties that use this. I've reached out to a lot of 19 other departments, agencies for OSSF within the 20 County -- or the State of Texas that implement it and 21 got some feedback and a lot of them actually have not 22 had much problems with the system. 23 And I've talked to a lot of the 24 professionals that work in our County and other counties 25 that have used the system, and said that it's actually 66 1 really easy to use. Yes, there's always going to be a 2 learning curve when you first get something new for the 3 employees, and maybe for the constituents, but it should 4 be a very simple process hopefully. And then we will be 5 having some how-to videos for the public to watch. If 6 they need steps on -- instructions on how to import 7 information. And if they need assistance, we would 8 still be able to say to them they can always come in our 9 offices for assistance as well. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many applications 11 are we getting a year? 12 MRS. BADDERS: Average, about 350. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 350. I mean I don't -- 14 I'm not wild about that system. I have used it and I 15 don't find it particularly easy. And -- but I also 16 understand that, you know, a lot of life these days 17 going into having to buy football tickets to an away 18 game you have to go online and do it nowadays which is 19 another thing I don't like doing. But I guess things 20 change with time. 21 To me, it has to be a voluntary system. 22 Definitely not mandatory. If the public -- if the 23 members of the public want to use it, fine. 24 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Especially if it has 25 bugs, you know, and maybe a year from now it's cleaned 67 1 up and simpler. But I've heard about a lot of them from 2 you that it's not user-friendly. And, you know, I see a 3 guy out in his pickup truck do something on his phone 4 and having a headache. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say if it's a 6 voluntary program but not as a mandatory. What's it 7 cost? 8 COMMISSIONER PACES: 8,000 bucks. 9 MRS. BADDERS: Annually this year, it's 10 budgeted for 7,000. And then next year it's going to be 11 budgeted for 8,100. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Is there a motion? 13 COMMISSIONER PACES: I'll make a motion to 14 approve the Interlocal Contract for Licensing South 15 Central Planning and Development Commission Software, 16 which will allow the importation of data from SAFE 17 Software to MyGovernment Online. 18 JUDGE KELLY: We've got a motion. 19 COMMISSIONER PACES: Second? Well, maybe 20 not. 21 JUDGE KELLY: We didn't get a second. So 22 the motion fails for lack of a second. Sorry. 23 MRS. BADDERS: Well, it is something that we 24 do have in our budget already that was approved. And 25 we've been having lots of problems with our current 68 1 program. I know IT -- I mean we call them constantly 2 because it's always crashing. And so we're trying to 3 move forward to a more modern direction. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is there a competitor 5 out there that would compare to or -- 6 MRS. BADDERS: Yes. And they cost even 7 more. 8 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Right. 9 MRS. BADDERS: So I did not go to that 10 company to see -- 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: But if it works 12 better -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like -- how about we 14 do a demonstration. Can we get it -- 15 MRS. BADDERS: Would you like them to come? 16 Is that what y'all would like to see? 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, they're salesmen 18 and stuff. I'd like to see you work it. 19 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Or one of us. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I'm looking back at 21 the -- whatever his title is at the City, we can just 22 log onto the City's and go through it on there. It's 23 free. And just try to do a septic permit on the City's 24 system and see how -- 25 MRS. BADDERS: Well, right now the septic 69 1 has to come through us because -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, do an irrigation 3 permit. We could do any permit. 4 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: I've done a fire 5 permit. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Do a permit so we 7 can see how the process work. Because I've been on it 8 and, you know, it's -- 9 MRS. BADDERS: I mean, are we able to apply 10 for a permit if we're not really getting a permit? 11 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, we just don't 12 punch the last one at the -- 13 COMMISSIONER OVERBY: Don't hit submit. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you know, I'm 15 not totally against it. It's just I don't want it to be 16 mandatory. Because I think that there's a -- you know, 17 we are a growing County and I see the need to move 18 towards technology but at the same time -- 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I agree. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we have a lot of 21 small contractors of various types and, you know, some 22 of them are more difficult and I don't want to be 23 pushing in that direction either. So -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: Let me just cut to the chase, 25 Ashli. This is a five member Court and we didn't even 70 1 get a second. So you need to do some work educating the 2 people up here as to why this system is what we need. 3 MRS. BADDERS: Okay. 4 JUDGE KELLY: And so we just need some time 5 where you can get people comfortable with this and then 6 you can bring it back when you find support. 7 MRS. BADDERS: Okay. 8 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. The next item on the 9 agenda is a timed item. Even though we have our guests 10 here, we have to sit and wait until 11:00. 11 COMMISSIONER PACES: Oh no. 12 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. So we're in recess 13 until 11 o'clock. And the Executive items based upon 14 what we're going to hear at 11:00. Okay. 15 (Recess) 16 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. Court will come back to 17 order. Item number -- next item is 1.18 Presentation by 18 the City of Kerrville regarding possible County 19 participation in TIRZ-related workforce housing project. 20 MR. HORNES: Judge, Commissioners. Thank 21 y'all for taking the time. We certainly appreciate it. 22 The City Council voted on a first reading of an 23 ordinance to create Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone No. 24 2 for us and that will be for the proposed Lennar 25 Development that is behind Peterson. And as a part of 71 1 that promotion, they asked us to come and speak to y'all 2 about possibly participating in the TIRZ with us. So 3 with that, we can go to the next slide there. 4 So briefly we'll go over concept with TIRZ, 5 process by which it's created, outline of what our -- 6 what this proposed TIRZ looks like, talk about the next 7 steps, and then ask questions. We'll be here to take 8 those from y'all. I wanted to highlight the attorney 9 for Lennar, James McKnight is here, and he'll probably 10 have a few words once I'm finished. And he can answer 11 all your questions, and I'll just step outside. 12 Okay. All right. Going to next slide. 13 So what is the reason that we're discussing 14 this with Lennar? The main reason is what we have heard 15 from our community about workforce housing and the 16 issues that are created by not having a place for those 17 folks to live. And so when I talked to Peterson 18 Hospital or the State Hospital or James Avery or 19 Killdeer Mountain Manufacturing, any of those major 20 employers in town, they all tell me the same thing, that 21 the number one reason that they're having limitations on 22 the ability to retain employees is that they can't 23 afford housing in Kerrville. And so this would be a 24 vehicle that we could use to rebate Lennar so they can 25 drive down the price of that home so that way the rang 72 1 of those houses would be within what is considered 2 affordable under HUD and TDHCA standards, which is -- 3 there's between 80 and 120 percent. I would much prefer 4 those be closer to 80, but the realities of the world 5 that we live in, they don't really even talk about 80 6 anymore. They talk about limiting that 100 or 120 mark. 7 So we have a relationship with Lennar. The 8 City had about 30 acres that we granted over to Lennar 9 provided they meet a whole set of measurables. So 10 they're currently under construction, as everybody has 11 seen probably on Loop 534. So they're slated to build 12 130 homes out there and sell those homes for under that 13 cap. The TDHCA cap, so haven't issued any certificates 14 of occupancy yet, but we are in process. And they 15 haven't closed on houses but they've sold. 16 This is an interesting one, because I get 17 this question a lot. This has been an opportunity that 18 was opened to developers in town. Specifically with 19 that initial property for the Richmond development, and 20 we weren't able to find anyone that could accommodate 21 it. And Lennar came through the doors and they said, 22 We could do this. And so we entered into that agreement 23 with them. 24 So the next question I got is, why has this 25 been opened up to other developers for the second phase? 73 1 Well, we don't -- we don't control the property. Lennar 2 is purchasing that property and so they requested, hey, 3 now that we've gone -- we're working on Phase 1, we'd 4 like to move into Phase 2 of this process. 5 So what is a TIRZ. Tax Increment Financing 6 is what it is. And it's a tool that both the City and 7 the County can avail themselves to. And it's governed 8 by Chapter 311 of the Texas Code. There's about 350 of 9 these within the State of Texas. It is a tool that is 10 used for the specific purpose of paying for public 11 works, public improvements. We utilize the TIRZ 12 Number 1 as an economic development program as an 13 incentive for public infrastructure that we can make 14 better downtown or to incentivize folks who are business 15 developers to come in town. That's what TIRZ Number 1 16 is for. 17 This one has a singular purpose. They would 18 put in their public infrastructure and then they would 19 get that public infrastructure cost rebated back to them 20 annually through the property tax. 21 Anyway, so it can be formed solely by city 22 ordinance, it can be formed with partnerships with both. 23 The funding mechanism is basically set up through -- and 24 with the picture it's always -- the picture does 25 everything. But essentially, there's the base value of 74 1 the property right now, which is a little less than a 2 million dollars. And the way TIRZ works is that base 3 year tax continues to go to the City, the County and 4 school district as it is, and then everything above that 5 is considered the increment. So whatever percentage the 6 City decides to -- in consideration with the City 7 decides to portion out, that percentage would go into a 8 TIRZ fund and the remaining percentage would go into our 9 general fund, and then that would exist through the life 10 of this TIF, and then once that's completed the full 11 valuation of the project would go on the rolls. That's 12 a whole lot of words. Let's go to the next slide and we 13 can show you what that is. 14 All right. Your base here is that purple 15 section. Your increment is everything that's created 16 after that. So, like I said, that base year the 17 property is just under a million dollars. The 18 incremental value is created through the end of the 19 year. Let's say Lennar builds 60 homes. And they have 20 $19 million worth of valuation on those properties, that 21 is the increment. And a portion goes to the TIF Fund, a 22 portion goes to the City's general fund coffer, and the 23 developer puts in an application to rebate them back 24 that portion that -- that is available. 25 Go to the next one. 75 1 So what is the process by which the TIRZ is 2 created? So there's a creation ordinance that passes a 3 project and financing plan. And so if the City decides 4 they want to do it and they pass it, the finance plan, 5 which is called the preliminary finance plan -- and 6 we'll go over the mechanics in the next couple of 7 slides, becomes the final financing plan and that's the 8 mechanics by which the developer is paid back. So it 9 can't deviate from that without express authority by the 10 City Council and by the board of the TIRZ. It's got the 11 boundary, the term, the Board, and the preliminary 12 financing and project plan. 13 So I think everybody knows the property that 14 we're talking about, but that blue area is surrounding 15 the middle school. So you got Loop 534 on the right 16 side there. Olympic Drive on the other side. This is 17 property that's currently owned by Schreiner University. 18 They're going to retain that portion back that is in 19 white, as well as that light blue portion, which is 20 designated as commercial property. And it's about 100 21 acres. Base year is this year, provided this happens 22 within this actual year. 23 The assumptions for this presentation are 24 it's going to be a 27-year term. And we have -- and 25 just because we're going through this exercise, we have 76 1 an assumption here of 50 percent participation with the 2 City and 25 percent participation with the County. 3 So what would that actually look like? This 4 is just iteration of what the development is going to 5 look like as six different phases. So Phase 1 would 6 start off on Loop 534. And then it would go kinda 7 northwest. Those two phases go to the back of the 8 property. And then Phase 2 is 2 A, B and C of those 9 last sections going southwest. 10 A minimum lot size they have for the 11 property are 35 -- homes 35 feet wide. It's a little 12 narrow. Not quite as small as y'all usually allow in 13 the County. But that's the purpose. So denser 14 development has to push toward the City and can't be out 15 where it's not allowed. 16 Forty percent of the homes are going to be 17 required to be at least 45 feet wide and the rest of the 18 homes can be anywhere between that 45 and 35 feet. It 19 is proposed to be 500 homes. Right now it's 511. And 20 the current limit on that number with TDHCA, and it's 21 real hard for me to say this out loud and I said this at 22 the Council meeting, is $275,000. That is what's 23 considered attainable. When I bought my first home it 24 was eighty grand. When my father bought his first 25 house, and I think I've said this a few times, he paid 77 1 12 blueberries for it. You know, it's just -- it's such 2 a big change over time. But these numbers continue to 3 grow. And they base these numbers based off the median 4 income in Kerr County, which this year is 84,600 based 5 on what the TDHCA has said. 6 All right. So this is -- there's a lot 7 going on here. But the way that we set this up and what 8 this shows is basically the breakout and the payout to 9 the developers, and there's one correction in here on 10 that green column that y'all have, which is the County 11 Estimated Revenue. That says 25 percent on the right, 12 that should say 75 percent. 13 So looking at this big table right here, 14 what you'll see is in 2026 the valuation of that 15 property sailed from nothing to 19.5 million 16 essentially. And each year up until 2033, it increases 17 by about 20 million dollars, with the last year being a 18 little bit less. And those represent the number of 19 houses that are built each year. So it takes about 10 20 years for this process to go all the way through the 21 full build. 22 And then as it moves on into 2052, which is 23 27 years from now, it incrementally increases that 24 valuation. Okay. And then right of that you'll see the 25 increment in the growth. So it's 20 million, 20 million, 78 1 20 million, and then it goes up 1.5 up to 1.8. 2 To the right of that are the developer's 3 estimated revenues in that yellow column there. And so 4 the breakdown as you see is 50 percent coming from the 5 City, 25 percent of the County's portion going in, and 6 then the total annual estimated revenue that the 7 developer would be reimbursed. 8 Bottom numbers are the ones that we can get 9 down to. The estimate for the City is 8.158, the County 10 is 3.287. This is over 27 years. Now, the City's 11 portion that goes back to us will be that exact same 12 amount, 8.158. And the County's portion that would be 13 generated into the County's coffers would be 9.863. Now 14 these are all estimates. We have to make estimates on 15 valuations of the homes, the property tax rates that we 16 have, property tax rates that y'all have as well. But 17 that's the nature of this. We just don't know. We know 18 that we have about a two to three percent decrease in 19 our M&L rate over each year, and so two to three percent 20 of like -- so it's 41 cents. So next year is -- or 40 21 cents. Yeah. And next year it's 39.6. So not three 22 cents decrease, three percent decrease. 23 So we have to make these assumptions to come 24 up with this financing plan. And here you have just a 25 representation of what that looks like as the values 79 1 increase and increase and increase, they hit kind of a 2 cap and then they increase rapidly for about ten years 3 and then they slowly appreciate over time. 4 Okay. So we have come to y'all to consider 5 this. And so where we are we've gone through our first 6 reading with City Council of the Creation Ordinance. 7 They asked us to come speak to y'all and see if y'all 8 would be willing to participate. And the next steps 9 after that would be, depending on y'all's consideration, 10 take it back to council and we either have a City ask 75 11 percent or we fund it by ourselves or we have a 12 combination where it's 50 percent of the City's taxes or 13 25 percent of the County's taxes that would go toward 14 this. And I don't think we need to go over that. Yeah, 15 go to the next slide. And that is it. 16 So that's all I've got. James is far more 17 articulate than I am and far more ready to answer these 18 questions from y'all. So I'll turn it over to him. And 19 Commissioner? 20 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Yes. If you don't 21 mind let me ask you a question first. 22 MR. HORNES: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What kind of vetting 24 process did you put Lennar Homes through? I mean -- 25 MR. HORNES: In terms of -- 80 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What did y'all look at 2 to go forward with this? 3 MR. HORNES: Well, so for Ridgelands, for 4 the first development that we're currently going 5 through, the ability for them to produce was -- was the 6 main factor. The ability for them to produce and to put 7 out that product at a price point that was within the 8 threshold. Now when this was all started, that 9 threshold was 185,000 to 227,000. That was four or five 10 years ago. And so we vetted the opportunities for other 11 folks to come in and do this. We got no response. 12 Right? 13 They are the largest production builder in 14 America. And so when they came through the doors and 15 said no, we can do this and we can create a product that 16 y'all can turn around, the City Council looked at the 17 layout that they created and said this would be -- and 18 so they turned around and we started on that first 19 session. 20 So now that there -- been through that, 21 working through that process, they've come to us and 22 said, hey, we'd like to do Phase 2 of this, so -- 23 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Well, just quite 24 frankly, I did a quick search on reviews for them and I 25 could not find anything favorable. In fact, they looked 81 1 awful as far as what they do. Their reputation. And 2 that's -- and that was quick and simple. 3 MR. HORNES: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I mean anybody can do 5 it. I got some printouts to share with y'all. And 6 their track record looked atrocious. 7 MR. HORNES: I can't speak for -- I can't 8 speak to that. I can speak to the experiences that 9 we've seen so far and what I've seen in other cities 10 that we have done business with them. You know, they 11 are -- they are a track home builder. They're not 12 custom homes. 13 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Sure. Right. 14 MR. HORNES: So when you look at KB homes, 15 you look at Lennar, you look and you'll see -- you'll 16 kind of see -- you'll run it again. 17 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know. 18 MR. HORNES: Okay. I had a project in Live 19 Oak, Texas, over in northeast Texas before I came here, 20 and we were doing a development with MI Homes. That was 21 the builder -- or the developer but they were the 22 builder. And you saw -- you saw 180 degrees of 23 consideration. Oh, this is the best thing since sliced 24 bread. My God, I couldn't stand this, I hate it. I'm 25 not sure. You know. What I've seen so far, the 82 1 build-out that they're doing, we had our building 2 department out there videotaping their inspection. 3 Because we have some concerns from one of the council 4 members that we'll bring up at either the next or the 5 following council meeting after that. 6 But the same as everybody else. If they 7 fail inspections based on our minimum standards, they're 8 going to have to go back and fix it. If they don't and 9 they've met those standards, they're putting out a 10 product that we say is you have to meet this and they 11 are doing that, I don't know what I can do past that. 12 Right. The lots are a little smaller. Right. The land 13 is not as big. There's not as much grass, which we 14 actually don't mind. But sometimes I feel like it's 15 hard to put the expectation that it's going to meet our 16 needs in my mind, you know, of what I expect a $275,000 17 house to be. But people are buying. 18 I've got a ton of folks here in town that 19 say I'm happy to come in and buy these if they're 20 available. But I can't speak to the negative reviews. 21 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: I know the need is 22 here, I'm just worried about who you climb in bed with. 23 COMMISSIONER PACES: Michael, you gave the 24 numbers but I didn't write them down quick enough. How 25 many acres is in the first phase and how many homes? 83 1 MR. HORNES: 30 is the first one. Ish. 130 2 homes. 3 COMMISSIONER PACES: Of which they've built 4 how many? 5 MR. HORNES: Probably 40 at this point. 6 Under -- I heard -- mostly complete or under 7 construction. And I can get y'all an exact count after 8 this. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: Well, I've stopped by 10 and walked through a few of them. Let's just say it 11 wasn't impressive, but I mean a nice starter home. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean 13 the -- 14 COMMISSIONER PACES: Hard to imagine -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of things. 16 Michael came and -- or mentioned it to me, he was off on 17 other issues frequently, a couple months ago and talked 18 about bringing this in September. I think I mentioned 19 it to the Court. Sort of last minute. Maybe even the 20 one before that. That this is something that was going 21 to come our way at some point. So it's -- I just didn't 22 think it was right to have this come right in the middle 23 of our budget process. We had enough headaches at that 24 time without looking at something new like this. 25 You know, conceptually, you know, I agree 84 1 that we need to push development into the City. From a 2 water standpoint and from a property and land use 3 standpoint and I can see a value here. But it's just -- 4 I feel I'm leading the precedent and we've never done 5 anything similar to this on real estate. We've looked 6 at several things along the lines and we've never 7 decided that real estate's, you know, where we should go 8 on -- we -- I would consider this kind of economic 9 development for affordable housing, but it's for 10 economic development reasons primarily. There's a 11 hurdle for me to get over mentally. 12 The other thing is, and I guess it's -- it's 13 so hard to swallow that 275,000 is an affordable home. 14 I mean again, I hear you saying it and I guess that's 15 what it is, but it just seems really expensive for the 16 product that's out there. 17 MR. HORNES: One of the things if -- if you 18 don't mind -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 20 MR. HORNES: One of the prospects, or one of 21 the ways that Lennar is able to be in this environment 22 so differently is that they're -- they have brought down 23 mortgage rates through some business model that they 24 have. And so one of the conversations that I had last 25 week was, well, what does this look like from an APR 85 1 standpoint? And one of the conversations that Merrick 2 had was somebody was trying to by a $250,000 house 3 versus 275 and check against the interest rates and the 4 payments ended up being the same because the interest 5 rate difference was Lennar being able to buy that down 6 was a way that they could additionally help make that 7 affordable. 8 So they have -- right now they're at four 9 and a half percent for their interest rate, but I know 10 we don't like that number because then the APR is the 11 actual number. Right. Got your points from the bank 12 and all the rest of it. How it gets a little 13 complicated for me by the way. 14 But at 20 percent down, because I ran 15 through the iteration, which is a hard number to go. 16 275, somebody's gotta come up with $50,000, $55,000. 17 That's a big amount. But just so we didn't have to have 18 like PMI part of it, their mortgage and -- their 19 principal interest would be $1,222.00. Now that's not 20 counting the taxes. That's not counting the insurance 21 or HOA fees or anything like that. And that's on a 5.3 22 percent rate, which is basically their APR. 23 And I'm looking this morning at the rates 24 around town and they're between 7.1, 7.6, depending on 25 where you're at. That number jumps up to 1450 or 1500, 86 1 depending on what that rate looks like. So that's a 2 significant delta for somebody. Now their whole 3 payment's still going to be close to $2,000.00 or over 4 with all the rest of those things. With insurance, with 5 home ownership, with PMI. If they don't have 20 6 percent, right? But that ability to lower that interest 7 rate really goes a long way with, you know, monthly. 8 Sorry for the long winded. 9 COMMISSIONER PACES: What kind of, you know, 10 controls do you have in whatever agreement you're going 11 to sign with Lennar that their price point stays at 275 12 or is it just going to -- you're going to allow it to go 13 up to whatever the market dictates as homes are built? 14 MR. HORNES: That's the way -- that's the 15 way the agreement was set up initially and that's the 16 way we propose to move forward, was they can increase 17 that value annually as the number changes from HUD and 18 from TDHCA. 19 So it wouldn't be static at $275,000. It 20 would appreciate as that number changes. 21 MR. HORNES: I would love to keep it at 275 22 but over ten years, 275 -- I think a $200,000 home ten 23 years ago here is probably $400,000 now in that short 24 amount of time. So it's a big difference. And I'm 25 hopeful that those interest rates or those -- those 87 1 changes don't continue at such a rapid pace. 2 But that's what we have in place. That it 3 can exceed that limit from TDHCA. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they -- you know, I 5 I don't know anything about Lennar. Never heard 6 anything about them so don't, you know, have a comment 7 on that one way or the other. But I mean I -- I agree 8 there's a need. We need to have more -- we call it 9 workforce housing, I'm just not sure if it's something 10 that the County wants to get involved with. But we 11 clearly -- our rules are not allowed in the County. So 12 it's not even a starter there. What percent of the 13 homes have to be built at that 275, or how does that -- 14 is it a hundred percent, 80 percent? 15 MR. HORNES: We set it up at a hundred 16 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that hundred percent 18 has to be at or below that number? 19 MR. HORNES: Yes. And one other thing I 20 would mention is, you know, we've gone through this 21 iteration trying to solve the questions. There's no 22 silver bullet answer. Trying to get apartment builders 23 to build right now. And that's another component to 24 workforce housing. Apartments. And the capital 25 stack -- the equity that apartment builders have to come 88 1 up with for the bank now has increased significantly the 2 amount of money they have to show up at the table for. 3 That, combined with the interest rates that they have to 4 pay, we're not seeing them built. 5 And I would love to be able to come back 6 here and say we got a 250 unit apartment that's going up 7 because that could solve a lot of those issues. Right. 8 It's not going to give somebody home ownership but it's 9 going to solve part of that issue. And at this point, 10 we're really just not seeing that happen. 11 So I've got homes being constructed that are 12 working towards solving that issue. And they're saying 13 they want to come back and do it again and I have no 14 other guarantees but that they're ready to come back and 15 build. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will all of the streets 17 become City streets or will they be private? 18 MR. HORNES: Yeah, they'll be City streets. 19 Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City streets? 21 MR. HORNES: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they'll build the 23 sidewalks and drainage and -- 24 MR. HORNES: That's correct. There's no 25 parks in it, but there's a hundred-acre park half a mile 89 1 away, at Singing Wind Park. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And to get the price 3 point of 275, you have to have the density as dense as 4 it is? 5 MR. HORNES: Their proposal initially -- we 6 talked about -- we started talking about this one two 7 years ago was 480 unit. The City Council went through 8 an iteration and, well, can we make them two-story? And 9 they said, well, yeah we can. And the lots will be 25 10 feet wide. And we went through that whole iteration 11 and, yeah, everybody's shaking their head. We were -- 12 everybody there was shaking their head. 13 But -- but we asked them to make them 14 two-stories and they said, well, to make it work this 15 would be our model for that. That would still be within 16 that $275,000. So it had gone up to as high as 700 and 17 everybody got real scared about that number because that 18 was too many. And so it came back down to that 490 or 19 510. 20 JUDGE KELLY: Who's this, is this 21 Mr. McKnight? 22 MR. HORNES: If y'all are ready, he's got 23 some -- 24 JUDGE KELLY: Sure. 25 MR. HORNES: -- he's got some -- some words. 90 1 MR. McKNIGHT: Yeah, some words. 2 Good morning, everybody. James McKnight. 3 So I'm the land use attorney for Lennar. So I -- Lennar 4 is my client. I just want to make clear that I am not 5 directly a Lennar employee so I can't answer for all of 6 the issues they got with their -- the complaints with 7 housing. 8 I'll say that they are a large company, so 9 it's not strange to hear those kinds of complaints 10 before. But there is a specific kind of market that 11 Lennar is going after when it comes to these homes. 12 They're the only ones that have -- that can make the 13 kind of capital investment, the size of this company, to 14 make these homes. To create the home and the certain 15 price range and to deliver the home to this area. 16 You know, you talk about density, number of 17 lots. I mean, that's because there's a diversity of 18 lots. We're committing to a certain amount. They're 19 over 45 feet wide. There's some down to 35 feet wide. 20 You have to have that mix in there to get that density, 21 but that mix divides the ability to have all the housing 22 units that we can get on the ground. But with the 23 interest rates the way they are, even with Lennar's 24 ability to do large developments, we still can't quite 25 meet everything without participation. It has to be a 91 1 public/private participation. It has to have the City's 2 participation and that's why we're asking for the 3 County's participation to get that piped down. And 4 we're still making huge capital investments up front. 5 We're still building all of the roads that are necessary 6 and getting that paid back over time. 7 And you can see the amount of money you get 8 the $12 million that you're getting paid back. That's 9 over 27 years. I mean Lennar, again, is the only ones 10 that can do that. Can put forth the money to put 11 everything out there and build the homes now with the 12 promise of getting that back over time. And that's just 13 because of our volume. But it really does provide a 14 benefit. We're going into San Antonio and Eagle Pass, 15 El Paso. I mean, all over the state you're seeing the 16 need for this kind of participation just so you can 17 drive those private towns. 18 We can also buy back -- buy down some of the 19 mortgage rates that helps us as well. But it's for a 20 specific month. It's for this first-time home buyers or 21 folks that can't quite get in, where you're seeing the 22 housing prices go everywhere up. So, you know, we're 23 looking at 1200 to 1800 square foot home, with the 24 neighborhood of 500 homes. Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: What was the size? 92 1 MR. McKNIGHT: 1200 square feet to 1800 2 square feet. So on a 35-foot lot you'll get the smaller 3 home, 12 to 1400 square feet. 4 And they have models that can accommodate 5 all these. But even with the size of it, all the things 6 they can do, it still requires some participation to 7 drive those rates down. And one thing that's really 8 tipped over, I think a lot of times, is the commitment 9 that Lennar is putting forward. Not just in terms of 10 building all of the roads, but the City is able to, you 11 know, commit to a certain number of lots. A certain 12 number of homes. Certain timing on when we have to 13 start. Certain timing on when they have to be complete. 14 Those are things you just don't get from any 15 other housing complex, but we're committing to all of 16 these things up front. And I think that helps really 17 show our commitment to the project as a whole. And 18 there are all kind of things that you can put into a 19 development agreement. Commitments that you can put in 20 there that -- that help with the process, but I think 21 it's important to mention. Because otherwise, you just 22 got to have -- just start building. 23 He laid out all the slides already so I'm 24 not going to show you any of the numbers. But I'm here 25 to answer any questions. 93 1 JUDGE KELLY: Any questions? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. What's the -- at 3 the 275,000 price point, what percent of that's land 4 cost versus construction cost? 5 MR. McKNIGHT: I actually don't know. 6 That's one of those things that if the Lennar 7 representative were here he can answer that question bu 8 I don't know. 9 MR. HORNES: Give me a second. I think it's 10 about 54,000 thousand. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Land? 12 MR. HORNES: Land. 13 JUDGE KELLY: Any other questions? Thank 14 you. 15 We have two members of the public that want 16 to talk. Terri Hall is first. 17 MS. HALL: Good morning, Commissioners. 18 Terri Hall at 118 Independence. Speaking on behalf of 19 We the People, Liberty in Action, as well as my 20 statewide organization called Texas Turf, we have long 21 opposed tax increment financing of any kind, whether 22 it's the TIRZ or TRZ. We're, in fact, in litigation 23 with the State of Texas right now to -- for the same 24 reasons why we opposed this TIRZ. It's a dead 25 instrument that benefits developers at taxpayers' 94 1 expense. Because the zone ties up tax funds that would 2 normally be going to fund the County's basic services 3 for decades, it takes that tax money away from those 4 services, thereby increasing taxes on everybody else to 5 have to fill that gap to provide services to that new 6 development. 7 So you're basically asking us, existing 8 homeowners, to pay higher property tax to help new 9 residents get a cheaper home. That is the absolute 10 height of insulting and unfair. You're asking us to 11 fill the gap. And it's also exactly what we said when 12 we came here during the budget process. What happened? 13 That as soon as you increase property tax and economy is 14 that much more unaffordable, you're going to come back 15 at us again and find another way to increase our 16 property taxes to now subsidize cheaper housing because 17 we can't afford to have housing, there's no affordable 18 housing in Kerrville. 19 Y'all created the mess and you keep wanting 20 the taxpayers to bail you out of it. There was plenty 21 of opposition to it at the City level, they just rammed 22 it through anyway. Now they're coming to the County 23 wanting the same thing and we're here to tell you, the 24 citizens don't want this. Nobody wants their property 25 tax to go up so that Lennar Homes can make a bunch more 95 1 money. Not -- it's not right. And it's actually 2 hurting the Republican brand. 3 Y'all have heard of Colony Ridge? It is a 4 major scandal that is now making national news here in 5 Texas, in Liberty County, and we've had Tucker Carlson 6 talking about it. The Times is talking about it. It's 7 all over the place. I believe even Fox News is doing 8 stories on it. Governor Abbott has now added it to the 9 special session happening right now for that very 10 reason. And the Legislators that created this mess are 11 the ones that are in seriously hot water with everyone 12 all over the State of Texas for what's happening and 13 allowing that developer to basically create a 14 substandard subdivision that is now -- I believe it's 15 four times the amount of people in their school district 16 and they have huge crime problems. Massive, massive 17 problems over there where it's basically creating an 18 illegal haven outside of the Houston area. 19 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Terri, can -- can I 20 ask you a question? 21 MS. HALL: Yes, absolutely. 22 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: Is it Lennar Homes in 23 the Liberty County deal? 24 MS. HALL: You know what? I'd have to get 25 back to you on that. 96 1 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: That's okay. 2 MS. HALL: And I will be happy to do that. 3 But ultimately what we oppose to all of this, in 4 addition to the fact of getting increase in taxes, is 5 these boards are created and the developers sit on the 6 board. They determine all the terms, all the rights, all 7 the -- everything else, and we can't hold them 8 accountable in any way, shape or form. Nor does this 9 come to the voters for us to say yes, thumbs up or 10 thumbs down. It's completely wrong. 11 The way this is going is backwards. So we 12 want it to stop here at the County level. The City may 13 have made a really disastrous decision, but that doesn't 14 mean that you all should get wrapped up in this. It's 15 extremely controversial and I don't want to -- I mean 16 I'm not overstating this. 17 Go read about Colony Ridge right now. You 18 can look it up on your phone and you will see what a 19 disaster this has created on a national scale of what 20 Texas has allowed to have happen because of these types 21 of districts and tax increment types of zone. Now that 22 was a M.U.D., but we won't oppose those. In fact, yours 23 truly in the Republican platform here today to oppose 24 the municipality district so it's set up the same way. 25 They're all just lipstick on some other version of a 97 1 pig. So with that, please don't do it. 2 JUDGE KELLY: George Baroody. 3 MR. BAROODY: George Baroody, 1616 Glen 4 Road. So I didn't bring my lipstick so we'll have to 5 deal with the pig as it is. 6 So I'm opposed to using TIRZ tax money, any 7 tax money to subside housing. So I'd be against the TIRZ 8 in general, which I've already stated to Council. But 9 here it's -- what you guys are being asked to do is a 10 little bit, I think, crazy to me. 11 You were just described a situation where 12 the City has already approved the first reading, the 13 creation of this TIRZ, and basically the guidelines to 14 how this is going to be rebated back to Lennar. What 15 they're now doing is coming to you and asking, hey, can 16 you help us out because we've kind of over-stretched 17 ourselves and we don't -- we'd rather you guys pitch in 18 something that we've already committed to. It seems 19 silly that the -- a County resident, for instance, would 20 say okay, why don't you guys join and partner with this 21 if you haven't been asked to partner with it before? 22 Why should they pay into a system that's already been 23 decided? It's already been committed to. 24 So even if the City has requested this 25 beforehand, why did they move forward without you, and 98 1 then come to you at the last minute? I feel bad for Mr. 2 Hornes to have to come here. It wasn't his idea to come 3 this late, I'm sure. I'm sure somebody in Council or 4 somebody along the way said no, you ask the County and 5 he was basically directed to come here, so I don't fault 6 him for doing that. 7 But -- so a couple of things that were shown 8 in the slides, he was glossing in the numbers, is the 9 amount of rebate that's going to come to the developer 10 over the term of this is grossly understated in the 11 numbers that were presented. They describe a growth of 12 percent value of one percent each year. After this 13 thing is fully built out, it's just natural growth. And 14 truly, the assessed value isn't the issue. 15 The issue is how much revenue, tax revenue, 16 is being collected from each of these entities. And the 17 City is in a path of collecting about three percent 18 growth every year of new revenue. That means three 19 percent growth going into the TIRZ. So the amount of 20 rebate that's going to go to Lennar is way more than 21 what's being presented. 22 The City presented a number of around 12 and 23 a half million. It's actually closer to 17. Very 24 potentially. I mean, obviously nobody knows what the 25 growth is going to be, but the trend is that it's going 99 1 to be closer to 17. And nowhere in the City's contract 2 is there a cap on how much rebate can go back to them. 3 It's just 27 years all of it goes to -- I mean, or 75 4 percent goes to the developer. That seems crazy to me. 5 The other is they talk about everybody, you 6 know, would bring the price point down. Well, in this 7 particular scenario what's going on, is the sale price 8 to the home buyer is 275. But the market rate for that 9 house is being assessed at or being projected at 320. 10 That's what Lennar has presented in its TIRZ numbers. 11 So there's a gap of about $45,000. Guess what the 12 amount of the incentive that's being given from the 13 public is. It's about $45,000 per home. So the 14 community is still paying the same amount for these 15 homes. So this business model doesn't work as far as 16 moving the needle for housing cost in this community. 17 Whether it City, County or otherwise. 18 So I would urge you not only to turn this 19 down, but any other project that comes forward regarding 20 housing and tax rebates. Just turn it down. It's a bad 21 business model. Doesn't -- doesn't work. Thank you. 22 JUDGE KELLY: Any other discussion? We do 23 have this on the agenda for an Executive Session item. 24 This is the last thing we have on the agenda. Is there 25 anything else to say publicly? Going once. Very well. 100 1 Then the Court will take a five minute recess and we 2 will reconvene in Executive Session. 3 (Recess.) 4 (Executive Session.) 5 JUDGE KELLY: It's 12:11 and we're coming 6 out of Executive Session, and there is no action to be 7 taken. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will make a comment, 9 though, Judge -- 10 JUDGE KELLY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- while you have that 12 agenda item on, is just go back to the City on that. I 13 think the whole Court probably agrees with this in 14 general, but we understand there's a huge need for 15 workforce housing in this community. And we would like, 16 you know, want to keep the door open or -- or start to 17 open the door with the City to figure out how best to do 18 it. And we think it's something that's needed. 19 This is -- this one, for me, this one just 20 doesn't quite get to where I want to be. But the need 21 is there, and we understand it, and we understand that, 22 you know, we need to look at these projects and maybe 23 even get together ahead of time where we can work 24 together on projects. 25 JUDGE KELLY: And to follow up on this so 101 1 that you do get some meaningful feedback. You remember 2 the meetings we had over in your house from the public 3 finance? 4 MR. HORNES: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE KELLY: I would describe the appetite 6 of this Court for this particular project to be 7 relatively low. The appetite for higher density is much 8 more appealing. 9 MR. HORNES: Okay. I can work with that. 10 COMMISSIONER HARRIS: All options are on the 11 table. We just -- 12 MR. HORNES: No, I appreciate that. 13 JUDGE KELLY: And what we're telling you is 14 that we're more interested in apartments than we are 15 1200 square-foot houses for teachers. 16 MR. HORNES: And one thing I failed to 17 mention is that this is something that y'all could 18 participate in after the fact as well. So the -- and 19 then our -- or my discussion, my purpose is I have to 20 speak, you know, before a council considers it. But for 21 the purposes of participation in TIRZ, it can -- it can 22 come after -- after it's created, and so not to bring 23 that up. I know we kind of threw this at y'all. Right. 24 So -- 25 JUDGE KELLY: Well, what we want the City to 102 1 know is we understand the dilemma that we have. And we 2 understand at some point there probably is going to have 3 to be some sort of public participation to help with 4 this workforce housing problem. This was not the right 5 project. So we're still at the table. We wish you the 6 best. We'll do what we can to help. But in terms of 7 participating with TIRZ right now, the answer is we 8 don't have anything that we want to do. 9 MR. HORNES: And we appreciate y'all taking 10 the time to consider it. 11 JUDGE KELLY: Thank you. And with that, we 12 are adjourned. 13 * * * * * * 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF KERR * 3 I, DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD, Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, and Official 5 Court Reporter in and for Kerr County, do hereby certify 6 that the above and foregoing pages contain and comprise 7 a true and correct transcription of the proceedings had 8 in the above-entitled Regular Commissioners' Court. 9 Dated this the 6th day of November, A.D. 10 2023. 11 12 /s/DEBRA ELLEN GIFFORD Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 No. 953 Expiration Date 04/30/2025 14 * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25